From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Nov 1 00:08:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:34 2005 Subject: What is it ? In-Reply-To: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <03e401c2816d$64a92420$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Rich, I'm pretty sure what you have is one of the original Compaq portable PCs. This was Compaq's first machine and was one of the earliest clones of the first IBM PC. It was released late in 1982 or very early in 1983. The machine is nearly perfectly compatible with the IBM PC and should run any and all software designed for that machine. The screen should be a CGA equivalent and there will be a 9 pin D and composite output behind the sliding panel on the right side of the machine to which you can attach an external monitor. I've got a picture of mine up at: http://www.vintage-computer.com/compaq_portable.htm if you want to look for confirmation. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of loedman1@juno.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: What is it ? I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. Size is 19 1/2 wide, 15 1/2 deep, 9 1/4 high with a 8 in "green screen".On the right side to the rear is a sliding cover over 5 slots, 3 filled, the left side slides open to expose the fan and switch and provides power cord storage. It has two 5 1/4 360k drives. The keyboard locks over the front for transport and it has a leather carrying handle on the back. Can anyone provide me any info on this machine Am also looking for info on a Kaypro 16, Dos machine Thanks, Rich From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 1 00:17:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: What is it ? References: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3DC21CC9.5080200@aconit.org> loedman1@juno.com wrote: > I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies > identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. Size > is 19 1/2 wide, 15 1/2 deep, 9 1/4 high with a 8 in "green screen".On the > right side to the rear is a sliding cover over 5 slots, 3 filled, the > left side slides open to expose the fan and switch and provides power > cord storage. It has two 5 1/4 360k drives. The keyboard locks over the > front for transport and it has a leather carrying handle on the back. Can > anyone provide me any info on this machine Your description corresponds exactly with the original model Compaq. A quick ggogle image search showed quite a few photos - boy Comppaq sure did build a lot of models! See http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/Compaq_Portable_PC.jpg -- hbp From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Nov 1 05:33:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: What is it ? In-Reply-To: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: That is a Compaq Portable. I have one. It was the first portable PC compatible computer on the market. They made a couple of models, each one smaller (but not much) than the one before it. The original portable is an XT clone. Look here for more info: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=547 Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 12:10 AM, loedman1@juno.com wrote: > I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies > identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. > Size > is 19 1/2 wide, 15 1/2 deep, 9 1/4 high with a 8 in "green screen".On > the > right side to the rear is a sliding cover over 5 slots, 3 filled, the > left side slides open to expose the fan and switch and provides power > cord storage. It has two 5 1/4 360k drives. The keyboard locks over the > front for transport and it has a leather carrying handle on the back. > Can > anyone provide me any info on this machine > Am also looking for info on a Kaypro 16, Dos machine > Thanks, Rich > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Nov 1 08:38:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (=?utf-7?Q?David_Woyciesjes?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: =?utf-7?Q?RE=3A_Best_programming_suite_recommendations=2E?= Message-ID: <3039607549ECD611B4660004AC1BA61518E0FA@YALEPRESS3> +AD4- From: John Allain +AFs-mailto:allain+AEA-panix.com+AF0- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- Hi, +AD4- I just saw another post from someone mentioning a layoff +AD4- (my Best Wishes to you too) and I thought it worth while +AD4- speaking up on this. That was probably me. Thanks for the thoughts. I did find some work, not a steady 40, but it's something... +AD4- Let's face it, unless you're in +AD4- with the GOV in some special way, it is probably Not good +AD4- to specialize in obsoletecomp for all of your computing. +AD4- So I'm looking for what you out there have voted for as +AD4- your programming environments (for those of you who +AD4- program, probably over 50+ACU-). +AD4- This isn't what you're exactly looking for, but that's part of the reason I downloaded Solaris 9 for my Ultra1, and Solaris 8 for my x86 boxes. I figure I'll work my way towards being a Solaris SysAdmin, or at least be able to support it, in addition to the Win/Macintosh support experience on my resume... -- --- David A. Woyciesjes --- C +ACY- IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ +ACM- - 905818 From bob at jfcl.com Fri Nov 1 09:52:00 2002 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <02110107544033@jfcl.com> In about twenty four hours eleven people have signed up for 13 PC boards. This is far more than I ever expected, and I'm glad to see so many people interested in PDP-8s and the SBC6120. I plan to keep taking sign ups until Monday, or we get to 20, which ever is first. BTW, the number of people signed up for our cooperative so far is enough to guarantee a PCB price somewhere in the low $30 range. Thanks again, Bob Armstrong > If you're one of those people who wants a PDP-8 but can't find one, don't >despair - you can always build your own! The SBC6120 is a complete PDP-8 >built around the venerable Harris HM6120 CPU and modern programmable logic >devices. All parts used except the 6120 are contemporary, easily available >devices. > > The entire system fits on a PC board 6.2" by 4.2" and has approximately the >same footprint as a 3.5" hard disk. The SBC6120 has an IDE disk interface, >an optional 2Mb non-volatile RAM disk (that's as big as an RK05!), and a true >KL8/E compatible console terminal interface. OS/8 device handlers are >available for the IDE and RAM disks, and the system will run standard >OS/8 V3D. There's even an expansion bus so you can design and build your >own daughter cards to plug into it. > > To find out more, visit the SBC6120 web page at > > http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm > > I've recently had two requests to buy SBC6120 PC boards. These are four >layer boards with plated holes and are quite expensive in quantity one or two, >but the price falls per piece falls dramatically for quantities as small as >four or six. I'd like to find a few other people who would be interested in >building their own SBC6120 and going in together on a PCB order. The price >for a SBC6120 PC board would be something like: > > Two boards ==> $100 per board > Four " ==> $60 per board > Six " ==> $45 per board > Ten " ==> $36 per board > > I also have about four spare 6120 chips, which I'm willing to sell at my >cost of $50 each. Believe it or not, it is still possible to buy new old >stock 6120s, at $50 each, with a minimum order of ten (!!), but if enough >people want SBC6120s we could always go this route. > > If you're interested, please write to me at bob@jfcl.com. > >Bob Armstrong From bob at jfcl.com Fri Nov 1 09:54:00 2002 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: Build your own PDP-8! Message-ID: <02110107551999@jfcl.com> In about twenty four hours eleven people have signed up for 13 PC boards. This is far more than I ever expected, and I'm glad to see so many people interested in PDP-8s and the SBC6120. I plan to keep taking sign ups until Monday, or we get to 20, which ever is first. BTW, the number of people signed up for our cooperative so far is enough to guarantee a PCB price somewhere in the low $30 range. Thanks again, Bob Armstrong > If you're one of those people who wants a PDP-8 but can't find one, don't >despair - you can always build your own! The SBC6120 is a complete PDP-8 >built around the venerable Harris HM6120 CPU and modern programmable logic >devices. All parts used except the 6120 are contemporary, easily available >devices. > > The entire system fits on a PC board 6.2" by 4.2" and has approximately the >same footprint as a 3.5" hard disk. The SBC6120 has an IDE disk interface, >an optional 2Mb non-volatile RAM disk (that's as big as an RK05!), and a true >KL8/E compatible console terminal interface. OS/8 device handlers are >available for the IDE and RAM disks, and the system will run standard >OS/8 V3D. There's even an expansion bus so you can design and build your >own daughter cards to plug into it. > > To find out more, visit the SBC6120 web page at > > http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm > > I've recently had two requests to buy SBC6120 PC boards. These are four >layer boards with plated holes and are quite expensive in quantity one or two, >but the price falls per piece falls dramatically for quantities as small as >four or six. I'd like to find a few other people who would be interested in >building their own SBC6120 and going in together on a PCB order. The price >for a SBC6120 PC board would be something like: > > Two boards ==> $100 per board > Four " ==> $60 per board > Six " ==> $45 per board > Ten " ==> $36 per board > > I also have about four spare 6120 chips, which I'm willing to sell at my >cost of $50 each. Believe it or not, it is still possible to buy new old >stock 6120s, at $50 each, with a minimum order of ten (!!), but if enough >people want SBC6120s we could always go this route. > > If you're interested, please write to me at bob@jfcl.com. > >Bob Armstrong From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 10:28:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:36 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 Message-ID: OK, I'm *jealous*... S/390 card for anything = drool... Um, I have a 4381... Sure your S/390 is faster, etc. but my S/370XA could crush it flat ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 10:31:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: Agreed, I don't think it would be good if we were to have a list member killed by a classic computer... Directly or indirectly... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Nov 1 10:52:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EB@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Agreed, I don't think it would be good if we were to have a > list member killed by a classic computer... Directly or > indirectly... Well, I'd rather be zapped by an PDP-11/70 than a stray bullet from some *hole "out there"..... just a thought :) Stone would read: "Here lies Fred, powered by PDP-11/70.. he couldnt take the power..." :) --f From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 11:04:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: Hahaha... I like that one... I was referring to the rodents + New Mexico = possible hanta virus, though. Of course, if you got electrocuted by your 11/70, IMHO, you probably didn't know how to do whatever you were doing ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 11:10:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: In search of qbus WCS... Message-ID: While I cannot say that I own the WCS board, I do have the printset for it, though it needs to be blown up (enlarged, *not* integrated with explosives), so should you ever need it, I could provide a copy. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Nov 1 11:13:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX In-Reply-To: <02110107544033@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. How much should they be going for? Macintosh LC Macintosh LC II (2) Macintosh II CX Thanx From micheladam at theedge.ca Fri Nov 1 11:19:00 2002 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Build your own PDP-8! Message-ID: <458b64ab09.4ab09458b6@northwestel.net> Then add my name to the list! Michel Adam 311 Rockridge Apts. 4905 - 54th Ave. Yellowknife, N.W.T. Canada X1A 1H6 Thanks Michel micheladam@theedge.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: bob@jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Friday, November 1, 2002 8:55 am Subject: Re: Build your own PDP-8! > > In about twenty four hours eleven people have signed up for 13 > PC boards. > This is far more than I ever expected, and I'm glad to see so many > peopleinterested in PDP-8s and the SBC6120. I plan to keep taking > sign ups until > Monday, or we get to 20, which ever is first. > > BTW, the number of people signed up for our cooperative so far > is enough > to guarantee a PCB price somewhere in the low $30 range. > > Thanks again, > Bob Armstrong > > > If you're one of those people who wants a PDP-8 but can't find > one, don't > >despair - you can always build your own! The SBC6120 is a > complete PDP-8 > >built around the venerable Harris HM6120 CPU and modern > programmable logic > >devices. All parts used except the 6120 are contemporary, easily > available>devices. > > > > The entire system fits on a PC board 6.2" by 4.2" and has > approximately the > >same footprint as a 3.5" hard disk. The SBC6120 has an IDE disk > interface,>an optional 2Mb non-volatile RAM disk (that's as big as > an RK05!), and a true > >KL8/E compatible console terminal interface. OS/8 device > handlers are > >available for the IDE and RAM disks, and the system will run standard > >OS/8 V3D. There's even an expansion bus so you can design and > build your > >own daughter cards to plug into it. > > > > To find out more, visit the SBC6120 web page at > > > > http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm > > > > I've recently had two requests to buy SBC6120 PC boards. These > are four > >layer boards with plated holes and are quite expensive in > quantity one or two, > >but the price falls per piece falls dramatically for quantities > as small as > >four or six. I'd like to find a few other people who would be > interested in > >building their own SBC6120 and going in together on a PCB order. > The price > >for a SBC6120 PC board would be something like: > > > > Two boards ==> $100 per board > > Four " ==> $60 per board > > Six " ==> $45 per board > > Ten " ==> $36 per board > > > > I also have about four spare 6120 chips, which I'm willing to > sell at my > >cost of $50 each. Believe it or not, it is still possible to buy > new old > >stock 6120s, at $50 each, with a minimum order of ten (!!), but > if enough > >people want SBC6120s we could always go this route. > > > > If you're interested, please write to me at bob@jfcl.com. > > > >Bob Armstrong > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Nov 1 11:25:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: Message-ID: <3DC2BA0C.7090203@tiac.net> Its not a lauging matter Will. I happen to know someone who got really ill this way (it was an old car, not a computer though). Will Jennings wrote: > Hahaha... I like that one... I was referring to the rodents + New > Mexico = possible hanta virus, though. Of course, if you got > electrocuted by your 11/70, IMHO, you probably didn't know how to do > whatever you were doing ;p > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > > From marvin at rain.org Fri Nov 1 11:28:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> Message-ID: <3DC2BA40.71C078DC@rain.org> For just the computer itself, I consider those prices high unless there is something special about the computer, i.e. low serial number, special cards, original boxes, original manuals, etc. Generally speaking, I can get LCs for perhaps $5 - $10 each, and I can frequently get them just for saying I want them ... which I don't :)! Gene Ehrich wrote: > > I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the > computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. > How much should they be going for? > > Macintosh LC > Macintosh LC II (2) > Macintosh II CX > > Thanx From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 1 11:33:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the > computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. > How much should they be going for? > > Macintosh LC > Macintosh LC II (2) > Macintosh II CX I guess it depends on their availability there, but I've seen all of those come out of Purdue Surplus, and could be had for $5 each. Of course, in that case that's AS-IS. As far as ePay value, not more than $5, and only that much if you're lucky. Value always depends on how much the buyer wants the time and how much the seller wants to get rid of it. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 11:37:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was.. I was laughing about what Fred said the tombstone would say for someone killed by their 11/70.. My apologies if you thought I was laughing about that... I agree with you fully about the danger of hanta virus... Any time you are around rodent excrement, especially in large quantities, you can't be too careful... That's why I have thrown out a few items I've gotten over the years; I figured the potential health hazard to myself was not worth it... A good example would be the Sinclair ZX-81 I got which was filled with cockroaches! YUCK! What sort of protection do you think would be adequate for John when he cleans the VAX? I'd almost want to recommend some kind of serious respirator-type mask, like the ones used when you do things like paint a car, or work with fiberglass, etc. But I definetly agree you should, bare minimum, wear a face mask, and gloves as well... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!  Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 1 11:38:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Mac IIci memory In-Reply-To: <3DC2BA40.71C078DC@rain.org> Message-ID: <000001c281ce$14034580$023ca8c0@blafleur> What is the maximum amount of RAM a Mac IIci can take? What kind of RAM do I need? Where is a good place to get it? Can it still be had new or surplus, or do I have to search Ebay? Thanks. - Bob From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Nov 1 11:43:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Ahh, but Bob, cars are evil.. > I happen to know someone who got really ill this way (it was > an old car, not a computer though). Christine Strikes Again... Seriously, though... yeah, one must be careful when playing with this stuff.. although I never got electrocuted (yet..), I did once almost get splattered by a PDP-11/34a in its rack, with the rack tilting over backwards (where I was...) --f From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 1 11:50:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Mac IIci memory In-Reply-To: <000001c281ce$14034580$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: Standard non-parity (parity work OK too) 30pin SIMMS, 80ns or better, max looks to be 16MB SIMMS (times 8 = 128MB ram - trust me, you won't be wanting to wait the 10 minutes or so the machine will take to initialize that on every hard reboot - 40MB was enough pain for me): http://www.lowendmac.com/ii/iici.shtml Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > What is the maximum amount of RAM a Mac IIci can take? What kind of RAM > do I need? Where is a good place to get it? Can it still be had new or > surplus, or do I have to search Ebay? Thanks. > > - Bob > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 1 11:55:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: What is it ? In-Reply-To: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 loedman1@juno.com wrote: > I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies > identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. Size "defies identification"?!? you just identified it. It is a Compaq portable. . 8088, one of the first highly successful PC wannabes. Had COMPAQ MS-DOS 1.25. Only thing special about its DOS was a somewhat unique MODE progrqam, and GWBASIC was renamed BASICA to permit PC-DOS batch files that ran BASIC programs to work. The brackets for the cards had an extra bend on the end, and can be recognized by that. The CGA card has an extra connector near the middle of the card for driving the internal monitor. The internal monitor can also do EGA. IF you can find a Compaq EGA card, or the "rare" ATI add-on to convert their EGA card for Compaq. > The keyboard locks over the front for transport NOT VERY WELL. At the slightest bump, the keyboard falls off, particularly on airport escalators, etc. Common sense would have called for a longer travel on those latches. > and it has a leather carrying handle on the back. The handle is way too soft for the weight involved, making it a drag to carry for any significant distance (BTDT). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Nov 1 12:11:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: Message-ID: <3DC2C4C6.7050101@tiac.net> Sorry if I misunderstood Will. I'd reccomend a HEPA filter mask, rubber gloves and lots and lots of Isopropal, dowse any rodent droppings before you remove them. Up here in New England, we don't have this (virus) problem, so its probably best to check with local health people to be sure of any needed precautions. Will Jennings wrote: > I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was.. I was laughing about > what Fred said the tombstone would say for someone killed by their > 11/70.. My apologies if you thought I was laughing about that... I > agree with you fully about the danger of hanta virus... Any time you > are around rodent excrement, especially in large quantities, you can't > be too careful... That's why I have thrown out a few items I've gotten > over the years; I figured the potential health hazard to myself was > not worth it... A good example would be the Sinclair ZX-81 I got which > was filled with cockroaches! YUCK! What sort of protection do you > think would be adequate for John when he cleans the VAX? I'd almost > want to recommend some kind of serious respirator-type mask, like the > ones used when you do things like paint a car, or work with > fiberglass, etc. But I definetly agree you should, bare minimum, wear > a face mask, and gloves as well... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp > > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Nov 1 12:14:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors Message-ID: <20021101181755.ITWU706.imf40bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > True, but you'd be amazed at what some people have problems with :-) Well, even at my advanced age I can still spot a mains connector ;>) > > Thanks for the information. I'll be poking around this critter more this > > weekend. Any gotchas I should know about? > > If you take the case apart, you need to realise that the monitor is not > separately enclosed inside/ This means that (a) there's high voltages > around (actually, there are also high voltages on the non-encased SMPSU > boards in there too...) and (b) the CRT neck is exposed and vulnerable. > It is possible to catch the end of the neck on the CPU board chassis when > putting the case together, and crack it. Then you're looking for a new CRT. > > The monitor PCB + CRT are fixed to the top part of the case, everything > else is on the baseplate. The service manual was helpful in opening the case. I show a lot of respect for CRTs when handling them! I had to remove the deadly-looking bare PSU mounted on the drive enclosure in order to work on the drives, so it also got the kid-glove treatment . . . What I meant by gotchas was: anything troublesome about the serial or parallel i/o? Any known bugs in the ROM? The manual very nicely documents the ROM routines (if the book is accurate) so this thing should be fun to do some assembler programming on. So far, despite all I've heard about "trash 80," this system looks pretty friendly. Later -- Glen 0/0 From Maddog1331 at aol.com Fri Nov 1 12:16:08 2002 From: Maddog1331 at aol.com (Maddog1331@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs Message-ID: <37F82317.7D2904B5.0BCE6344@aol.com> Hi everyone, I am new to the board, and hope you might be able to help me figure something out. I have bought locally and resold old computer items over ebay, and I have come across what looks to be an old Honeywell dummy terminal, with keyboard. Here is a link to a pic: http://server3001.freeyellow.com/maddog1331/honeywell.JPG What I would like to find out is exactly what I have here, what it hooked into, what kind of value, when it came out, etc...I have checked on the net but have came up with nothing on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Mark Saarinen Kentucky, USA From Maddog1331 at aol.com Fri Nov 1 12:16:16 2002 From: Maddog1331 at aol.com (Maddog1331@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs Message-ID: <65486327.40191EBC.0BCE6344@aol.com> Hi everyone, I am new to the board, and hope you might be able to help me figure something out. I have bought locally and resold old computer items over ebay, and I have come across what looks to be an old Honeywell dummy terminal, with keyboard. Here is a link to a pic: http://server3001.freeyellow.com/maddog1331/honeywell.JPG What I would like to find out is exactly what I have here, what it hooked into, what kind of value, when it came out, etc...I have checked on the net but have came up with nothing on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Mark Saarinen Kentucky, USA From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 12:18:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: No problem, Bob... Didn't mean to sound defensive, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm not an insensitive bastard.. But I think that perhaps a discussion (with eventual creation of a website possibly?) on how best to clean classic computers would be a good idea.. Thoughts? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Nov 1 12:24:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> <3DC2BA40.71C078DC@rain.org> Message-ID: <007301c281d4$1a04fea0$b3010240@oemcomputer> I see those here everyday from $1 to $10 and most times they are free. I have plenty and leave them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: Re: MAC LC, LCII & IICX > > For just the computer itself, I consider those prices high unless there > is something special about the computer, i.e. low serial number, special > cards, original boxes, original manuals, etc. Generally speaking, I can > get LCs for perhaps $5 - $10 each, and I can frequently get them just > for saying I want them ... which I don't :)! > > Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > > I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the > > computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. > > How much should they be going for? > > > > Macintosh LC > > Macintosh LC II (2) > > Macintosh II CX > > > > Thanx > From mac.wood at t-online.de Fri Nov 1 12:31:00 2002 From: mac.wood at t-online.de (Marc Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Symbolics disk tool and ifs tape generating code Message-ID: Hello, I'm desperatly looking for the Symbolics Disktool Software for addding non Symbolics MFM disks to my 3640 machine. I hope there are still some people with Symbolics Lisp Machines out there who could help me, By browsing older netnews articles I found a posting concering some lisp code to generate a breath-of-live tape i.e installing a machine without access to a running Symbolics 36xx machine. Here's the link to that posting: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=David+Gadbois+group:cu.slug&hl=de&lr=&ie=U TF-8&selm=899148625.11494%40news.Colorado.EDU&rnum=6 Does someone still have that code ? Any bit of information will be appreciated. Regards, Marc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Nov 1 12:41:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: Message-ID: <3DC2CAD2.5080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Will Jennings wrote: > I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was.. I was laughing about what > Fred said the tombstone would say for someone killed by their 11/70.. My > apologies if you thought I was laughing about that... I agree with you > fully about the danger of hanta virus... Any time you are around rodent > excrement, especially in large quantities, you can't be too careful... > That's why I have thrown out a few items I've gotten over the years; I > figured the potential health hazard to myself was not worth it... A good > example would be the Sinclair ZX-81 I got which was filled with > cockroaches! YUCK! What sort of protection do you think would be > adequate for John when he cleans the VAX? I'd almost want to recommend > some kind of serious respirator-type mask, like the ones used when you > do things like paint a car, or work with fiberglass, etc. But I > definetly agree you should, bare minimum, wear a face mask, and gloves > as well... Rabies and tetnius shots come to mind. From micheladam at theedge.ca Fri Nov 1 12:55:01 2002 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <469e94d070.4d070469e9@northwestel.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: bob@jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) [...] Apologies to the list. My reply was meant to be off-list. Michel From jruschme at netzero.net Fri Nov 1 12:58:01 2002 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> Message-ID: > From: Gene Ehrich > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:15 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX > > > I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the > computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. > How much should they be going for? > > Macintosh LC > Macintosh LC II (2) > Macintosh II CX Are you talking complete systems with monitor, mouse, and KB or just CPU? They *might* be worth it as complete systems. As CPUs only, none is worth more than about $5, unless it has some pretty special expansion card installed. All these are commodity enough that you should be able to get a good guide from ebay pricing. <<>> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Nov 1 13:15:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX Message-ID: <109.1b2aea00.2af42d51@aol.com> In a message dated 11/1/2002 12:16:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, gehrich@tampabay.rr.com writes: << I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. How much should they be going for? Macintosh LC Macintosh LC II (2) Macintosh II CX >> $20 would be ok for ALL of them. The LCII is crippled with crappy hardware design. IF they are populated with max RAM and bigger hard drives they might be worth alittle more. Chances are they have maybe 8meg and 40/80meg hard drives. The IICX has no built in video either. From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 1 13:48:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX References: <109.1b2aea00.2af42d51@aol.com> Message-ID: <008301c281df$f5dbad60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I have a few freemacs like this too. When they work well It's hard to think of them as worth less than $20, but I agree that that's how the freemarket works. Question: when you find a good software package on a >7 year old Mac, is it easy, hard, or completely impossible to add said software to another Mac that you have. This assumes a working network for starters. John A. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Nov 1 13:58:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs In-Reply-To: <37F82317.7D2904B5.0BCE6344@aol.com> Message-ID: <036701c281e1$51b11660$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I can't see the keyboard too well in the picture but it sure looks like a dumb terminal and the logo does say Honeywell. . . :) If you have better pictures of the keyboard and a shot of the back there may be more evidence there. Meanwhile, the screen looks like it's pretty bad which greatly reduces the value of the item. If it cleans up okay you might be able to get "typical eBay dumb terminal pricing" which seems to hover around $30-$50 for working units. Recognizable ones in good condition (VT100s, mostly) sometimes fetch more. Good luck, Erik S. Klein -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Maddog1331@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:18 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs Hi everyone, I am new to the board, and hope you might be able to help me figure something out. I have bought locally and resold old computer items over ebay, and I have come across what looks to be an old Honeywell dummy terminal, with keyboard. Here is a link to a pic: http://server3001.freeyellow.com/maddog1331/honeywell.JPG What I would like to find out is exactly what I have here, what it hooked into, what kind of value, when it came out, etc...I have checked on the net but have came up with nothing on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Mark Saarinen Kentucky, USA From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 1 14:08:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX Message-ID: >Question: when you find a good software package on a +AD4-7 >year old Mac, is it easy, hard, or completely impossible >to add said software to another Mac that you have. >This assumes a working network for starters. Most software on the mac is VERY easy to copy from one mac to another. In many cases, all you need to do is copy the folder the application is in to the other mac, and you are done. Everything is contained in that one folder. That is normal Mac behavior. Some applications have support extensions however. In those cases, you will need to also locate the appropriate files from the System folder. (usually in the Extension folder, but depending on the purpose, may be in the Control Panels folder, or elsewhere in the System folder... ie: Claris applications make their own folder called "Claris" and stick most of their support files in there). If in doubt on what may need to be moved, feel free to ask, I might be able to tell you if there are any additional files and where to locate them. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 1 14:12:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Mac IIci memory Message-ID: >Standard non-parity (parity work OK too) 30pin SIMMS, 80ns or better, max >looks to be 16MB SIMMS (times 8 = 128MB ram - trust me, you won't be >wanting to wait the 10 minutes or so the machine will take to initialize >that on every hard reboot - 40MB was enough pain for me): The only thing to watch for, IIRC, is there are a few, odd, parity only versions of the IIci. I believe the logic board is labeled as such, and they are pretty rare, so odds are you won't have one. But it might be worth a quick look at the board to be certain (IIRC, it is labeled "Parity" near the SIMM slots). As long as you don't have that odd version, then parity or non parity will work fine in the IIci (but I recommend you keep them all the same type) -chris From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Nov 1 14:20:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Mac IIci memory In-Reply-To: from Patrick Finnegan at "Nov 1, 2 12:53:32 pm" Message-ID: <200211012031.MAA09018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Standard non-parity (parity work OK too) 30pin SIMMS, 80ns or better, max > looks to be 16MB SIMMS (times 8 = 128MB ram - trust me, you won't be > wanting to wait the 10 minutes or so the machine will take to initialize > that on every hard reboot - 40MB was enough pain for me): On the other hand, 128MB is excellent for NetBSD. That's what my IIci has in it for NetBSD 1.5.2, and it doesn't even touch swap. Kernel compiles are (comparatively) swift -- just six hours compared with eight-to-ten! ;-) My MacOS IIci has only 24MB in it, though. That's certainly sufficient for A/UX and 7.1. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it. -- Groucho Marx ------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 14:22:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs Message-ID: Mark, There should be a model number on the back (most likely) or someplace at any rate.. Should read VIPxxxx, where xxxx is a 4-digit number.. I believe the model number will start with a "7", though I can't guarantee that.. I'd love to buy it from you, I have a Honeywell minicomputer which uses Honeywell terminals, and I lack terminals. If you reply to me directly, maybe we could make a deal? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 14:32:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 Message-ID: I came across a site today which provided more information on this critter, and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a copy of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ? Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of some kind, apparently.. Not sure if this was one of the rebranded Four/Phase machines or not, but I wish I had one : ) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From donm at cts.com Fri Nov 1 14:52:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I came across a site today which provided more information on this critter, > and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a copy > of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ? > Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what > TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: The majority of TurboDos installations were on Z80 based hardware. Like CP/M, all installations were a custom version to accomodate the installed hardware. However, there was an x86 version of TD that came out near the 'end'. - don > http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of > some kind, apparently.. Not sure if this was one of the rebranded Four/Phase > machines or not, but I wish I had one : ) > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Broadband??Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 1 15:15:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Mac IIci memory In-Reply-To: <200211012031.MAA09018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <000001c281ec$5bfbf8a0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I've got an AudioMedia card (not sure which version... LE, II, etc) I think the Iici I have has 16MB or 20MB, and the AudioMedia card always seemed to want more. I'd like to revive the system, so need to get more memory to make it work reliably. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:31 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Mac IIci memory > Standard non-parity (parity work OK too) 30pin SIMMS, 80ns or better, > max looks to be 16MB SIMMS (times 8 = 128MB ram - trust me, you won't > be wanting to wait the 10 minutes or so the machine will take to > initialize that on every hard reboot - 40MB was enough pain for me): On the other hand, 128MB is excellent for NetBSD. That's what my IIci has in it for NetBSD 1.5.2, and it doesn't even touch swap. Kernel compiles are (comparatively) swift -- just six hours compared with eight-to-ten! ;-) My MacOS IIci has only 24MB in it, though. That's certainly sufficient for A/UX and 7.1. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it. -- Groucho Marx ------------- From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Nov 1 15:22:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Motorola Kit model MC14500B demo unit available Message-ID: Told this guy I'd help him out, if you contact him, tell him I (Bill Sudbrink) sent you. ==================================================== I have the following kits suitable for teaching the fundamentals of computer hardware technology: 2 sets of Motorola Kit model MC14500B demo unit assembled with handbook and operating systems information. These kits have never been used and are in Original shipping boxes. Prices are: Motorola $65.00 plus shipping The kits are in West Springfield, MA 01089 Reply to p.muto@att.net Peter Muto From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Nov 1 15:44:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11 stuff available in Richmond, California Message-ID: <3DC2F4B9.5CDB9A38@xs4all.nl> All, I got this message via my web site. If there any interested parties, please contact Rowen via 'riomac@yahoo.com'. BTW, does anybody know what the 'DPM' could be? Ed >Hello > >Are you still collecting? I might have a few items you might be interested >in. PDP 11/84's, qbus stuff, something called a DPM (DEC), tons of >manuals... > >Rowen McCormick -- From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Nov 1 16:19:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: What is it ? In-Reply-To: <20021031.211048.-130081.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 loedman1@juno.com wrote: > I recently acquired a rather aged Compaq "portable" that defies > identification, the plate says Model: Compaq, Serial number: 002027. > Size is 19 1/2 wide, 15 1/2 deep, 9 1/4 high with a 8 in "green > screen".On the right side to the rear is a sliding cover over 5 slots, 3 > filled, the left side slides open to expose the fan and switch and > provides power cord storage. It has two 5 1/4 360k drives. The keyboard > locks over the front for transport and it has a leather carrying handle > on the back. Can anyone provide me any info on this machine This sounds like an original Compaq Portable. I once had two of these, but my folks sold them for $20 about 5 years ago. I honestly don't know why Compaq considered em "portable" though, as they weigh a ton... Compaq still has software and info for these and nearly all their older stuff on their ftp site. It isn't well documented, and the website that Compa^H^H^H^H HP has online does not have links to most of these files. If someone has the bandwith, it might be wise to mirror the ftp site before it disappears like Digital's did. If I had the bandwith, I'd certainly do it. -Toth From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Nov 1 16:22:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Motorola Kit model MC14500B demo unit available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Told this guy I'd help him out, if you contact him, > tell him I (Bill Sudbrink) sent you. > > ==================================================== > > I have the following kits suitable for teaching the > fundamentals of computer hardware technology: > > 2 sets of Motorola Kit model MC14500B demo unit > assembled with handbook and operating systems > information. Hey, a 1 bit processor with an operating system? > > These kits have never been used and are in Original > shipping boxes. > > Prices are: Motorola $65.00 plus shipping > > The kits are in West Springfield, MA 01089 > > Reply to p.muto@att.net > > Peter Muto > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Nov 1 16:30:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: FS: Old Computer Magazines Message-ID: <038e01c281f6$79982ff0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> A gentleman contacted me the other day about some old computer magazines that he needs to get rid of. I already had copies of the issues in question so, with his permission, I am forwarding the information to the list. Please contact Jeff at JeffVolp@att.net if you are interested in any or all of the following: Creative Computing: 77 Nov/Dec (Vol 3: 6) 78 Jan/Feb, July/Aug - Nov/Dec (Vol 4: 1, 4-6) 79 Jan - Aug, Nov, Dec (Vol 5: 1-8, 11, 12) 80 Jan - Apr, June - Dec (Vol 6: 1-4, 6-12) 81 Feb, Mar, Aug, Oct (Vol 7: 2, 3, 8, 10) Dr. Dobb's Journal - March 1980 through February 1981 (issues 43-52) He wanted $15 + shipping for the Dr. Dobb's but didn't mention a price for the Creative Computing. Please contact Jeff with any questions or offers. Thank you, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Nov 1 17:31:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Mac TV Problem Message-ID: <006001c281fe$fb06d340$66000240@oemcomputer> Can't locate the TV setup control panel on the Mac TV I got from eBay? It has OS 7.5.3 loaded on it. I tried Apple's site, google, and others but no luck as to how I can replace this missing control panel. Any tips? Thanks From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 1 17:40:00 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: What is it ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1036194050.1756.0.camel@supermicro> On Fri, 2002-11-01 at 17:22, Tothwolf wrote: > This sounds like an original Compaq Portable. I once had two of these, but > my folks sold them for $20 about 5 years ago. I honestly don't know why > Compaq considered em "portable" though, as they weigh a ton... It had a handle - just like a jackhammer. > > Compaq still has software and info for these and nearly all their older > stuff on their ftp site. It isn't well documented, and the website that > Compa^H^H^H^H HP has online does not have links to most of these files. If > someone has the bandwith, it might be wise to mirror the ftp site before > it disappears like Digital's did. If I had the bandwith, I'd certainly do > it. > > -Toth > From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 1 17:40:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: OK, I think I've stepped in it... (MICOM 2000) Message-ID: <3DC2BBE0.12779.1C915E8B@localhost> Aarghh !! Actually its about the same size as a Commodore Pet. The 8" Shugart FDD is about 4" high and the same size as the base. What might possibly push up the weight is the Qume power supply for the printer. The printer itself is the fastest daisy-wheel printer I've seen, tho a bit noisy, and could likely be interfaced with other computers. The massive printer power supply could also be used with a homebrew adaptor for a variable power supply. Since NASA had it tied into their mainframes as a stand-alone workstation it could likely be used as a terminal with the async card. Try it out before passing on it and please let me know what docs, programs and cards it comes with. Maybe we can work something out. Give your S.O. some flowers and compliments (consider it a worthwhile investment) and plead "It's just for a short while, Honey" Lawrence > I just got the UPS tracking info, this thing > weighs 100 pounds!? I thought I was being > gouged on the shipping, but now I see I wasn't. > It just doesn't look that big in the pictures. > > Anyway, when these two crates show up on my > doorstep, my wife is going to have a cow! > Space is tight here and I've just managed to > get my collection as it stands under control. > > So, I'm going to need to move this beast fast. > Is there anyone in the Washington, DC area that > wants to take it off my hands for what I have > invested in it ($30 cost + $50 shipping)? > > Email quick, UPS says it arrives on Friday (11/1). > > Thanks, > Bill > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 1 17:52:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Mac TV Problem Message-ID: >Can't locate the TV setup control panel on the Mac TV I got from eBay? It >has OS 7.5.3 loaded on it. I tried Apple's site, google, and others but no >luck as to how I can replace this missing control panel. Any tips? Thanks I think it can use the same software as the TV/FM tuner card apple offered. This isn't a control panel, it is a standalone application that interfaces with the video tuner card (giving you all the functions of a TV). However, I think what you are really after is the TV Setup control panel (I'm not sure what it does that the Video Player doesn't, but maybe it is some MacTV specific stuff). -chris From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 1 17:54:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow Message-ID: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> I picked up a rainbow this evening, but it is missing the monitor and keyboard. But there was 2 floppy disks still in the drives. I've looked the case over and the only ports on the back seem to be the video, printer and COMM. If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 1 18:00:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Mike wrote: > I picked up a rainbow this evening, but it is missing the monitor and > keyboard. > > But there was 2 floppy disks still in the drives. > > I've looked the case over and the only ports on the back seem to be the > video, printer and COMM. > > If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? Probably not. The monitor for it is actually a 'VR201' .. a VT220 minus the terminal interface part. The video output is actually monochrome NTSC-compatible video (i've used my TV for that), and the keyboard is either an LK-201 or LK-401 (they're electrically compatible with each other). Somewhere I found a pinout of the 'video' port, if you want I can look again. I made an adaptor for my PRO380 (same video connector) that just gives an RCA jack and keyboard jack from the connector and it works fine. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Nov 1 18:15:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Help Needed with Mac TV Problem References: Message-ID: <007501c28205$21a4a1c0$66000240@oemcomputer> Thanks for the great info. :-) I have downloaded the panel and now have to get it over to the Mac TV. I will update you on how it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 5:53 PM Subject: Re: Help Needed with Mac TV Problem > >Can't locate the TV setup control panel on the Mac TV I got from eBay? It > >has OS 7.5.3 loaded on it. I tried Apple's site, google, and others but no > >luck as to how I can replace this missing control panel. Any tips? Thanks > > I think it can use the same software as the TV/FM tuner card apple > offered. > > nglish-North_American/Macintosh/Display-Peripheral/Video/Apple_Video_Player > _1.7.2.smi.bin> > > This isn't a control panel, it is a standalone application that > interfaces with the video tuner card (giving you all the functions of a > TV). > > However, I think what you are really after is the TV Setup control panel > (I'm not sure what it does that the Video Player doesn't, but maybe it is > some MacTV specific stuff). > > nglish-North_American/Macintosh/System/Other_System/TV_Setup_1.0.2.sea.bin> > > > > > -chris > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 1 18:22:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: <200211010414.XAA75206101@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20021102002446.XVUO2262.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Megan > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Repairing devices > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:14:44 -0500 (EST) > >electron layer is filled, only two electrons orbiting core made up > >of two photons, two neutons. Utter stable except to split it with > >energy knocking them apart (fission). > > That's two *protons*... Thanks, been long time that I had to think about it and dug through google to confirm while typing previous reply. Cheers, Wizard > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | > | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Nov 1 18:58:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: MAC LC, LCII & IICX References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101121109.01b87e48@pop-server> Message-ID: <3DC32384.6030901@eoni.com> TOOOOOOOO MUCH! Market on the LCs is "You pay the shipping." IICX is worth about $5 unless it's got a high end video card and/or a processor accelerator in it. Then it's worth whatever the cards will bring. I have a IICX with a Diimo 50mhz accelerator and a high end Radius vid card in it that's worth about $40. Jim Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have the opportunity to acquire the following computers (just the > computer itself). The gentleman wants $20 a piece. Is that a good price. > How much should they be going for? > > Macintosh LC > Macintosh LC II (2) > Macintosh II CX > > Thanx > > . > From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 1 19:13:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:37 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EB@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EB@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <1013524558.20021101191510@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 1, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Well, I'd rather be zapped by an PDP-11/70 than a stray bullet from some > *hole "out there"..... just a thought :) I'd rather you connect me and the 11/70 in your will first. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 1 19:23:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs In-Reply-To: <65486327.40191EBC.0BCE6344@aol.com> References: <65486327.40191EBC.0BCE6344@aol.com> Message-ID: <1814143457.20021101192529@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 1, 2002, Maddog1331@aol.com wrote: > I have bought locally and resold old computer items over ebay, and I have > come across what looks to be an old Honeywell dummy terminal, with > keyboard. Here is a link to a pic: > > http://server3001.freeyellow.com/maddog1331/honeywell.JPG I've got 6 or so of Honeywell terminals that look a lot like those. Mine have some POS-app dedicated keys on them, I know, so mine are a little different than yours. I haven't messed with them much. > I have checked on the net but have came up with nothing on this. 5 minutes with Google got me at least this: http://www.freaknet.org/~martin/FreakNet/honey.html It's in Italian, but there are ways around that. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 1 19:55:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <002701c28131$20426d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200210311645.LAA01176@wordstock.com> <002701c28131$20426d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1216072261.20021101195738@subatomix.com> On Thursday, October 31, 2002, John Allain wrote: > So I'm looking for what you out there have voted for as your programming > environments (for those of you who program, probably over 50%). All of my recent projects (for the last year), paid and/or academic, have been Java projects. I currently use NetBeans 3.4 as my Java IDE, with JDK 1.4.0, and it works very well. I do love Java. All of the C/C++ development I've done has been in a UNIX environment, and my 'I'DE there was GCC, Emacs, and all the other GNU tools. The only Windows development I've done has been with Visual Basic, and that has either been with VB6 or directly inside a MS Office app. VB is great for throwing together quick-and-dirty apps, but attempting to work outside that core capability profile generates only frustration. Example: multithreading. You can do it (sort of) in VB6, but it requires things like invisible windows with timer controls and other sorts of kludges. -- Jeffrey Sharp From gene at ehrich.com Fri Nov 1 20:09:00 2002 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Performa question Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101101126.00b7e1b0@popmail.voicenet.com> I have a MAC Performa 550 and a damaged Restore CD. I can borrow one from a friend. Does anybody know if I can duplicate it on a CD-R on a PC? Should I be able to read it with Windows Explorer? ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com Fri Nov 1 20:09:27 2002 From: winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com (David G.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet 8032 Message-ID: <20021101204822.39062.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Do you still have the Commodore PET? I've been looking for one dead or alive for display about the history of home electronics that will be at a local school. please respond as soon as you can. Thanks, David G. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Fri Nov 1 20:09:39 2002 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 Message-ID: <00ed01c281e9$c4d12880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have a complete original HP-UX 10.20 distribution set... I believe it's like 5 or 6 CD's. Original HP packaging. Plus I have about 5 or 6 distribution tapes for add-on layered products (things like Ansi-C, MC/ServiceGuard, Glanceplus, etc. etc.). No, these are not available for sale or trade, because I use them with my D220 system at home :) But, if someone needs a copy to ... recover their license... drop me a note. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From eklein at impac.com Fri Nov 1 20:09:56 2002 From: eklein at impac.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: FS: Old Computer Magazines Message-ID: <038301c281f2$5c3633c0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> A gentleman contacted me the other day about some old computer magazines that he needs to get rid of. I already had copies of the issues in question so, with his permission, I am forwarding the information to the list. Please contact Jeff at JeffVolp@att.net if you are interested in any or all of the following: Creative Computing: 77 Nov/Dec (Vol 3: 6) 78 Jan/Feb, July/Aug - Nov/Dec (Vol 4: 1, 4-6) 79 Jan - Aug, Nov, Dec (Vol 5: 1-8, 11, 12) 80 Jan - Apr, June - Dec (Vol 6: 1-4, 6-12) 81 Feb, Mar, Aug, Oct (Vol 7: 2, 3, 8, 10) Dr. Dobb's Journal - March 1980 through February 1981 (issues 43-52) He wanted $15 + shipping for the Dr. Dobb's but didn't mention a price for the Creative Computing. Please contact Jeff with any questions or offers. Thank you, Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 1 20:11:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Oct 31, 2 05:42:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021101/a0569cec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 1 20:11:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: <20021101181755.ITWU706.imf40bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Nov 1, 2 12:58:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1296 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021101/9f1d9490/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 1 20:11:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Oct 31, 2 08:14:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021101/e9f539b0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 1 20:13:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> from "Mike" at Nov 1, 2 06:56:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021101/30abdacb/attachment.ksh From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 1 20:28:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Performa question Message-ID: >Does anybody know if I can duplicate it on a CD-R on a PC? Maybe, if the PC software allows for direct unmounted drive to drive duplication. Toast on the Mac can do this, so I would think EZ-CD on the PC can do it too. Nero probably can seeing as it supposedly can duplicate Playstation CDs (which usually have parts that can't be properly read or mounted on a computer). >Should I be able to read it with Windows Explorer? No, the CD will be in HFS format, which is a Mac format. If the person has one of the PC utilities for mouting Mac discs, then you probably can, but without it, no it won't be recognizable. (thus why for the above question, you need to be able to copy the data without it being mounted) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 1 20:31:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Performa question Message-ID: >I have a MAC Performa 550 and a damaged Restore CD. > >I can borrow one from a friend. Sorry, I should have put this with my other response, but I screwed up. If you can make a disc image file of the CD, and you have a decent internet connection, I would love a copy of that CD as well (I can give you an FTP address you can send it to). If you can't send it to me that way, I'd be willing to give you postage, and a few dollars to cover the effort for you to dupe a copy for me and mail it to me. I have 4 or 5 of the Performa 550 in my garage, and I would love to have a copy of the restore CD for it. let me know... thanks -chris From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 1 20:38:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <1216072261.20021101195738@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000201c28219$880ad600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Jeffrey Sharp writes: The only Windows development I've done has been with Visual Basic, and that has either been with VB6 or directly inside a MS Office app. VB is great for throwing together quick-and-dirty apps, but attempting to work outside that core capability profile generates only frustration. Example: multithreading. You can do it (sort of) in VB6, but it requires things like invisible windows with timer controls and other sorts of kludges. Visual Basic has been TOTALLY revamped in Visual Studio.NET. Things that were very hard or just about impossible to do before (such as your example of multithreading, or command-line apps) are very easy and fully supported now. Sorry, I don't want to sound like a Microsoft commerical, but Visual Basic has been a "toy" language for so long that many people are slow or unwilling to give the new version a serious look. It's pretty easy to visualize the new Visual Basic.NET as C++ with "BASIC" syntax rather than C syntax. - Bob From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 1 20:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... In-Reply-To: <3DC18A9E.1090406@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > I'd vote for the same location as the first VCF East. > > Quite a few people in the area have collections, but were not aware of > the event in time to exhibit their gear. With some advanced notice, I'm > sure some of them would make an appearance next time around. So I'm counting on you to pass along the following URL so they can sign up for the mailing list and be notified of the next VCF East: http://www.vintage.org/maillist.php ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Nov 1 21:05:00 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Performa question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101220450.01ae1b60@pop-server> Thanx for your help. I copied the CD on my PC but have not yet tested it. I have to hook up the MAC to do that. The copy ran to completion without errors reported. If you like send me $3 and your address and I will make a copy for you or put it in my PayPal account gene@ehrich.com Gene At 09:33 PM 11/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >I have a MAC Performa 550 and a damaged Restore CD. > > > >I can borrow one from a friend. > >Sorry, I should have put this with my other response, but I screwed up. > >If you can make a disc image file of the CD, and you have a decent >internet connection, I would love a copy of that CD as well (I can give >you an FTP address you can send it to). If you can't send it to me that >way, I'd be willing to give you postage, and a few dollars to cover the >effort for you to dupe a copy for me and mail it to me. > >I have 4 or 5 of the Performa 550 in my garage, and I would love to have >a copy of the restore CD for it. > >let me know... thanks > >-chris > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Nov 1 21:06:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Performa question References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101101126.00b7e1b0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3DC34188.1010307@eoni.com> Sure, not a problem. Do it all the time. Nero disk copy. Works better that dupping them on a Mac. Jim Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a MAC Performa 550 and a damaged Restore CD. > > I can borrow one from a friend. > > Does anybody know if I can duplicate it on a CD-R on a PC? > > Should I be able to read it with Windows Explorer? > > > > ================================= > Gene Ehrich > gene@ehrich.com > gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > > . > From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Nov 1 21:22:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101192434.00ab7cb0@mail.zipcon.net> you can make an adaptor with a keyboard jack and a connector to hook to a generic composite monochrome monitor... I've used Apple monochrome, commodore and amdek with my rainbow. but you WILL need a rainbow specific keyboard. At 06:56 PM 11/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >I picked up a rainbow this evening, but it is missing the monitor and >keyboard. > >But there was 2 floppy disks still in the drives. > >I've looked the case over and the only ports on the back seem to be the >video, printer and COMM. > >If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 1 21:30:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 In-Reply-To: <00ed01c281e9$c4d12880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jay West wrote: > I have a complete original HP-UX 10.20 distribution set... I believe it's > like 5 or 6 CD's. Original HP packaging. Plus I have about 5 or 6 > distribution tapes for add-on layered products (things like Ansi-C, > MC/ServiceGuard, Glanceplus, etc. etc.). No, these are not available for > sale or trade, because I use them with my D220 system at home :) But, if > someone needs a copy to ... recover their license... drop me a note. > > Jay West Note. ;) All I got with my 9000/735 was the first CD. It's a bundled license with all the 9000 "Apollos", BTW, and HP themselves told me there's not a problem using whatever media I can get, since ownership of the box confers ownership of the license. Decent of them, eh? Doc From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 1 21:33:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 Message-ID: But does the base install for HP-UX require any codewords? And how is it for DAT versions? Enquiring minds want to know. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Nov 1 22:50:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > The serial port is standard, but with rather more pins wired than you'd > expect (I think some of the 'secondary' ones are used too). While on this subject, does anyone remember the 300 baud pulse dial Lynx modems? I have a couple, but I need to find another of the right angle pc boards (I'll put up a photo as soon as I dig out the one I have) that originally came with them so that I can connect one each to both my model 3 and model 4. I could also use another one of those modems to dedicate for use on my model 1 if someone has one laying around that they don't plan to use. (Yep, this thread has bitten me, and I'm planning to do something with my TRS80s again ;P) -Toth From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 1 22:52:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... Message-ID: <200211020453.XAA70625304@shell.TheWorld.com> It would help if www.vintage.org would respond... I've not been able to connect for quite some time... I've tried each time I've seen your message and I get nothing... Megan From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 1 23:00:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: References: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3DC30697.8939.1DB544DA@localhost> > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Mike wrote: > > > I picked up a rainbow this evening, but it is missing the monitor and > > keyboard. > > > > But there was 2 floppy disks still in the drives. > > > > I've looked the case over and the only ports on the back seem to be the > > video, printer and COMM. > > > > If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? > > Probably not. The monitor for it is actually a 'VR201' .. a VT220 minus > the terminal interface part. The video output is actually monochrome > NTSC-compatible video (i've used my TV for that), and the keyboard is > either an LK-201 or LK-401 (they're electrically compatible with each > other). Somewhere I found a pinout of the 'video' port, if you want I can > look again. > If it has a graphic card you can also use it with a VR241. The original Byte review claimed the VR201 was compatable with the VT102. Jeff Armstrong who wrote the Rainbow FAQ claimed there was a built-in terminal that could be accessed at the start-up menu by typing T altho I have never tried it. He also said a friend of his was using it for a terminal on his VAX II. Tony Duell posted the pin-outs for both mono and color a while back on the list to make a monitor cable, which can be hard-to-find. The LK201's are fairly plentiful. The main source of Rainbow stuff is archived at: ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/ I also have the FAQ and some other stuff gleaned from Jeff Armstrong's now defunct Rainbow site. Don Maislin can supply the OS disks IINM at a ridiculously low price. Lawrence > I made an adaptor for my PRO380 (same video connector) that just gives an > RCA jack and keyboard jack from the connector and it works fine. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Nov 1 23:00:10 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: OK, I think I've stepped in it... (MICOM 2000) In-Reply-To: <3DC2BBE0.12779.1C915E8B@localhost> Message-ID: > Aarghh !! Actually its about the same size as a > Commodore Pet. Not quite as tall, but a good bit wider and a little deeper. Weighs a _LOT_ more. Seems to be made of 14 gauge steel. The keyboard is pretty big too. > The 8" Shugart FDD is about 4" high and the same > size as the base. Nope, narrower and deeper so that you can't put the system unit on top of it (see below about connectors). > What might possibly push up the weight is the Qume > power supply for the printer. Didn't get a printer with it. The keyboard, by itself, cased in the same heavy metal, weighs a good 10 lbs I'd say. It was very poorly packed, but, thanks to its solid construction, it weathered the trip well. > Since NASA had it tied into their mainframes as a > stand-alone workstation it could likely be used as a > terminal with the async card. No async card. It has 4 cards: 1) CPU/Keyboard/Printer 2) memory 3) Disk interface 4) Display > Try it out before passing on it and please let me know > what docs, programs and cards it comes with. No docs or software :( One empty ROM socket on the memory card. A couple of empty sockets on the display card. Seems to date from 1979... all of the chips that I can identify date codes on are 78 and 79. Ribbon cables to the disk drive and the keyboard are cut and badly mangled, but they seem to have been simple, straight through ribbon cables, so they should be easily replaced. Really strange in that the connectors for the cables are on the _bottom_ of the case! Completely eliminates any thought of stacking the main unit on the disk drive. I'll try to take some pictures and make them available over the weekend, unless someone comes and gets it first. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 1 23:33:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Colin Eby wrote: > > Brian -- > > did you upgrade from 4.3.3 to 5L on the 591? i've currently got 4.3.3 > > on my 591 and was wondering if it was worth upgrading to 5L or not. > > Yes and no. I started with 4.3.3, but when I upgraded, I did a build from > scratch. For most uses the upgrade isn't that worthwhile. The GUI tools run > even slower than they do in 4.3.3. And there's no great differentiation in > software compatibility. The real bonus is linux compatibility libraries. I A severely underpowered box, say sub-340/530 with <128MB memory, will probably run best on 4.1.5. (There are a bunch of Y2K APARs for 4.1.x, and you'll want them) My 332MHz 43P is _faster_ on 5.1 The Linux Toolbox is available & stable for 4.3.3, from the website. BTW, somebody mentioned a "common graphics adapter dropped after 4.1.4" or something. Is that the Sabine baord? 2-or-3-board 24-plane adapter? It was dropped at v4, because the guy who designed it left IBM, and nobody was willing to tackle his code. > don't compile much on the AIX machines, so I'm less concerned. Mine get > used as administrative workstations...and...er... and as a mainframe. The > 591 has the P390 card. It's my sandbox for OS390, something I don't know a > lot about but have a consuming curiousity for. The real reason I keep them > current is to keep me current. Bastard. I want that card. :) Doc From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Nov 2 00:03:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <3DC30697.8939.1DB544DA@localhost> References: <20021101235644.KQHN5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101220450.033f84b0@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:56 PM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote: > If it has a graphic card you can also use it with a VR241. The original Byte >review claimed the VR201 was compatable with the VT102. > Jeff Armstrong who wrote the Rainbow FAQ claimed there was a built-in >terminal that could be accessed at the start-up menu by typing T altho I have >never tried it. He also said a friend of his was using it for a terminal >on his >VAX II. Ding,Ding,Ding,Ding.... give the mana cigar, Yes there is a terminal program built in :) > Tony Duell posted the pin-outs for both mono and color a while back on the >list to make a monitor cable, which can be hard-to-find. The LK201's are >fairly plentiful. > The main source of Rainbow stuff is archived at: > > ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/ I need to see if I still have the "Dec Rainbow Technical manual" still floating around and get the bloody thing scanned into PDF's or something.... > I also have the FAQ and some other stuff gleaned from Jeff Armstrong's now >defunct Rainbow site. > > Don Maislin can supply the OS disks IINM at a ridiculously low price. From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Nov 2 00:26:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6DC@deathstar.arielnet.com> Ok, the rodent issue is dealt with. Everything has been taken apart (and documented), cleaned thoroughly, and put back together. Now I'm completely lost. Plugging it in, the large orange light on the PSU lights up. With the switch on the PSU switched to "LOCAL" and the breaker turned on, the blower kicks in. Thing is, I don't have a key for the front panel power switch. However, James Lothian's 11/750 FAQ says that the power supply being switched to "LOCAL" should override the key setting and power up the machine, but the power light on the front doesn't light up, nor does anything else. On the PSU, there are no failure lights, but "Power OK" doesn't light up either. Any thoughts? John From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Nov 2 01:54:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 References: <00ed01c281e9$c4d12880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3DC3852F.F6B28C22@naffnet.org.uk> Jay West wrote: > I have a complete original HP-UX 10.20 distribution set... I believe it's > like 5 or 6 CD's. Original HP packaging. Plus I have about 5 or 6 > distribution tapes for add-on layered products (things like Ansi-C, > MC/ServiceGuard, Glanceplus, etc. etc.). No, these are not available for > sale or trade, because I use them with my D220 system at home :) But, if > someone needs a copy to ... recover their license... drop me a note. > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] HP now have an 'unlimited user patch' available for HP-UX 10 and 11 that can be downloaded free from their website (for those that aren't aware, the default licensing is for a 2 user license.' The layered products have a horrible tendency to require a password for activation, though. Cheers, Dave. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Nov 2 01:59:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: Message-ID: <3DC38645.E54AF92B@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > Oh come on... I'd find something a lot more painful than the multimeter > probes. The insulation tester probes (with the tester set to 1000V) would > be a good start :-) > The judicious use of the static discharge tester always seems to provide interesting results... Dave. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 2 02:29:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <3DC38645.E54AF92B@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Oh come on... I'd find something a lot more painful than the multimeter > > probes. The insulation tester probes (with the tester set to 1000V) would > > be a good start :-) > > The judicious use of the static discharge tester always seems to provide > interesting results... Pfft...I was always more fond of small photo-flash capacitors. -Toth From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Nov 2 04:22:01 2002 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 Message-ID: <20021102102426.27203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Will, > I came across a site today which provided more information on this critter, > and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a copy > of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ? no idea on the data front. Did TurboDOS have built in multi-user support (I know nothing about it)? If not then I'd definitely think that the version on this machine was custom, as it has support for at least 4 if not 5 terminals in its current state. That's just going by the cables at the back; there's a lot of unused pins on the card edge connectors, so given that the website claims support for 62 terminals I expect it could make use of some breakout box arrangment to give more 25-pin terminal connectors. > Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what > TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: > http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm unfortunately I hit a bit of a snag with my machine. Following the flood damage the previous owner had tried to fix the system. Trouble was, the machine has two backplanes to it - the upper one with one row of card sockets and the lower one with two rows. System cards from the top rack will also plug into the bottom rack (which contains the PSU, mains voltage, and a spare slot for some unknown board). The disk controller had been plugged into that spare slot... :-( It wouldn't have got any mains voltages but it would have got +5 and +12V on all sorts of pins that it shouldn't have. I also found that the disk data bus (SCSI? SASI?) terminators had been misaligned and so it's possible some of the data lines were shorted together or at least had a low resistance connected across them. Curiously, the disk controller and the board the converts the system's SCSI/SASI bus to MFM look to be identical on the P3500 (from the photos on the website that Fritz posted about). So if one of those ever shows up, at the very least it'd be invaluable for checking that the hard drive on this 3800 is still operational - and in the absence of schematics for the 3800 it'd probably be very useful for fixing the 3800's disk controller. > Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of some kind, apparently.. I'm not sure - I did a quick hunt on the web and there was very little information around. One site seemed to imply that it was much older technology than the 3800, but another site gave the impression it was much newer. Uless the model number was reused they can't both be right :) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Nov 2 06:57:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF33@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I need to see if I still have the "Dec Rainbow Technical manual" still >floating around and get the bloody thing scanned into PDF's or something.... I do have that manual and it is already scanned, along with a bunch of other Rainbow manuals (various printsets, service manual etc.). If someone has an ftp site where they can be uploaded, let me know ... Antonio From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Nov 2 08:42:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: Message-ID: <3DC3E4F6.9080402@tiac.net> Not a bad idea Will, But from some of the discussions on this list, its clear that different people have very different restoration styles, based on their experiance and the types of machines they work on. So I'd think that such a web site would take a lot of work to put together, kinda like a massive FAQ with contributions from lots or people on the list. As for the safety issues of something like Haunta virus, those reccomendations would have to come from someone with formal knowledge of this stuff. I'm not at all qualified in this area. Will Jennings wrote: > No problem, Bob... Didn't mean to sound defensive, but I wanted to > make it clear that I'm not an insensitive bastard.. But I think that > perhaps a discussion (with eventual creation of a website possibly?) > on how best to clean classic computers would be a good idea.. Thoughts? > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 2 09:10:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Colin Eby wrote: > > used as administrative workstations...and...er... and as a mainframe. The > > 591 has the P390 card. It's my sandbox for OS390, something I don't know a > > lot about but have a consuming curiousity for. The real reason I keep them > > current is to keep me current. > > Bastard. I want that card. :) > Get in line. I've been wanting one since I first learned of their existance many years ago. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From msspcva at yahoo.com Sat Nov 2 11:35:00 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors (printer support) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021102173713.53459.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com> About printers: The one thing to remember about the TRS line is that the printer output is not emitting pairs but rather with implied , so most of the DOS-centric printers will be unhappy. ( is shorthand for the carriage return character, ASCII code 13 decimal; is linefeed, ASCII code 10 decimal) You used to be able to tell printers that they should interpret as , but I don't know if the newer ones will still do that. Or, you can set up the TRSDOS O/S to add them in (at least under LSDOS/TRSDOS on a Model 4). It's been awhile! -- Frank --- Tony Duell wrote: > > What I meant by gotchas was: anything troublesome > about the serial or > > The parallel port is fairly sane too. The strobe/ > signal is generated > automatically when you write to the data output > latch. There's an 8 bit > input too, one of which is used for Busy. > > It should work with any normal parallel printer. > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Nov 2 12:31:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors (printer support) Message-ID: <20021102183510.SLCH23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Clayton Frank Helvey > The one thing to remember about the TRS line is that > the printer output is not emitting pairs but > rather with implied , so most of the > DOS-centric printers will be unhappy. ( is > shorthand for the carriage return character, ASCII > code 13 decimal; is linefeed, ASCII code 10 > decimal) Hey, if the worst thing I have to deal with is CR->CR/LF translation, the Model 3 will be a fun and useful addition to my collection! > You used to be able to tell printers that they should > interpret as , but I don't know if the > newer ones will still do that. > > Or, you can set up the TRSDOS O/S to add them in (at > least under LSDOS/TRSDOS on a Model 4). Better to let the OS do it . . . Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Nov 2 12:31:13 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: <20021102183520.SLEN23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> In the days before 'net access was commonly available to ordinary folks like me, I used to spend a fair amount of time on BBSs, so I thought it might be fun to use my older machines to do some BBSing. Unfortunately, results from Google suggest that most BBSs are now only Telnet-accessible. Anyone know where to get a fairly current list of dial-up BBSs? I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find an ISP which can provide a dial-up shell account (with POP3 email) which doesn't require PPP or SSH. I could code PPP drivers for a vintage micro (although it would suck up a lot of time), but I doubt that I could get both PPP and TCP/IP running on a system with 64 KB RAM or less. Anyone know where to find an ISP which provides plain old dial-up access from a micro running a terminal program? TIA -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 2 12:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: more long vector Imlac stuff, was Re: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: <3DC18CB9.7090304@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > The board in the center row, right-hand side is the TTY interface board. > The long vector hardware is most probably that odd board added in the > core memory section, top right in the picture. I'll try to get more and better pictures (Tom requested them too) so we can get a better look. Trouble is the machines are tucked away in a tight area. It'll be a few days before I can get out to the warehouse and pull them out. In the meantime, here's a link to pictures I took when I first brought home my PDS-1D: http://siconic.com/computers/Imlac/ The idea is to get them working at some point. I'm hoping Greg Thomson (Maze author referenced previously) will take an interest in helping me out. It'd be really cool to have a real game of Maze in my garage with the original author ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bqt at update.uu.se Sat Nov 2 13:03:00 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Rainbow docs In-Reply-To: <20021102180001.55872.68327.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > I do have that manual and it is already scanned, along with a bunch > of other Rainbow manuals (various printsets, service manual etc.). > If someone has an ftp site where they can be uploaded, let me know ... How about ftp.update.uu.se? Put it in incoming, and I'll move it to rainbow/doc Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From cb at mythtech.net Sat Nov 2 13:13:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: >I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find an ISP which can provide a >dial-up shell account (with POP3 email) which doesn't require PPP or SSH. >I could code PPP drivers for a vintage micro (although it would suck up a >lot of time), but I doubt that I could get both PPP and TCP/IP running on a >system with 64 KB RAM or less. > >Anyone know where to find an ISP which provides plain old dial-up access >from a micro running a terminal program? Although I haven't activated it and played with it yet... shell access comes with my SpeakEasy DSL account. (I get 30 hours of dialup time a month with my account). I don't know what exactly they define as shell access, but they do seem "alternate OS" friendly, so it might be a real honest shell dialup. I think they recently started offering national dialup only service, so you might want to check them out to see what their shell service entails. Go to www.speakeasy.net for info. -chris From mac.wood at t-online.de Sat Nov 2 13:14:00 2002 From: mac.wood at t-online.de (Marc Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: QBUS UC04 SCSI ctrl Message-ID: Hello, I'm looking for a manual for the EMULEX UC04 qbus SCSI ctrl. I will pay for copying plus postage. Cheers, Marc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 2 13:15:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021101192434.00ab7cb0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Nov 1, 2 07:25:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021102/63a8f27e/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Nov 2 13:17:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 References: Message-ID: <014d01c282a4$7a9c3460$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Several people wrote... > But does the base install for HP-UX require any codewords? And how is it for > DAT versions? Enquiring minds want to know. Under normal circumstances.... The base os defaults to 2 user, no codeword required. Any additional users require codewords. The layered products all require codewords. For all the media that *I* have, including the layered products I mentioned, this is not an issue. Special Case. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 2 13:21:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <3DC30697.8939.1DB544DA@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 1, 2 10:56:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1465 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021102/1d38c6ce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 2 13:38:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <3DC3E4F6.9080402@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Nov 2, 2 09:45:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021102/cfac9bec/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 2 13:46:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: halloween thoughts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, chris wrote: > Jack-o-CRT? Humm... maybe my wife should have made one of those last > night. Instead she spent 3 hours carving a really nice ornate design > into a pumpkin... to come home this afternoon and find that a rabbit ate > the entire front out... now it is just an orange ball with a giant hole > in the middle. Maybe she shouldn't have carved the image of a carrot into the pumpkin. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Nov 2 13:46:09 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: <20021102195008.VOQR282.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: chris > Although I haven't activated it and played with it yet... shell access > comes with my SpeakEasy DSL account. (I get 30 hours of dialup time a > month with my account). I don't know what exactly they define as shell > access, but they do seem "alternate OS" friendly, so it might be a real > honest shell dialup. > > I think they recently started offering national dialup only service, so > you might want to check them out to see what their shell service entails. > Go to www.speakeasy.net for info. Thanks, Chris. Speakeasy's shell accounts are available through dial-up, but the client system must run PPP & TCP/IP. Glen 0/0 From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 2 13:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:38 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Easy to say, much harder for me to do. As I said, I would not want to > ruin the VCF-UK by having a flamewar, so the simplest thing to do would > be to keep away. Still, we'll see... Why on Earth would there be a need to have a flame war at the VCF? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 2 13:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <001b01c2814f$e8d26fe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > +AD4- I would guess that what makes a particular language good, > +AD4- is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do. > > My preferences are: Networking, 2D+ACY-3D Graphics, synthetic > data structures, file ops, GUI's, in that order. > > +AD4- What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the > +AD4- project is. > > I've done a couple of over 10Kline systems+ACo-. > EG: OpenDX http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/9436.html > > John A. > +ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg- > http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/osscommitment.html > Wish they had used that name while we were still there. John, I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these ridiculous escape codes spread throughout. This has been the case pretty much since you first signed on to this mailing list. See above. I've tried to tolerate it (and have strained to make sense of what is going on with your messages) but I have to object finally. It seems special punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are being escaped in some wacky fashion. What the hell is going on with your mail sender? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 2 13:55:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs In-Reply-To: <37F82317.7D2904B5.0BCE6344@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 Maddog1331@aol.com wrote: > Hi everyone, I am new to the board, and hope you might be able to help > me figure something out. > > I have bought locally and resold old computer items over ebay, and I > have come across what looks to be an old Honeywell dummy terminal, with > keyboard. Here is a link to a pic: > > http://server3001.freeyellow.com/maddog1331/honeywell.JPG > > What I would like to find out is exactly what I have here, what it > hooked into, what kind of value, when it came out, etc...I have checked > on the net but have came up with nothing on this. I have two of these terminals that connect to the Honeywell DPS-8 mainframe I bought several years back. Unfortunately, I didn't get the keyboards :( It's basically a dumb terminal. Whether it is serial or has some proprietary interface I don't know. I never really examined them closely. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 2 14:45:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > John, > > I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these ridiculous > escape codes spread throughout. This has been the case pretty much since > you first signed on to this mailing list. > > See above. > > I've tried to tolerate it (and have strained to make sense of what is > going on with your messages) but I have to object finally. It seems > special punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are > being escaped in some wacky fashion. > > What the hell is going on with your mail sender? I don't think John is aware of it, or can even see the characters as such in his mail client. From his mail headers one can see that the likely culprit is Outlook: -> MIME-Version: 1.0 -> Content-Type: text/plain; -> charset="utf-7" -> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -> X-Priority: 3 -> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal -> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 -> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this, but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-) -brian. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Nov 2 15:21:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: QBUS UC04 SCSI ctrl Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034273@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I'm looking for a manual for the EMULEX UC04 qbus SCSI ctrl. >I will pay for copying plus postage. I have a scan of something with the title: "UC04 Intelligent Host Adapter Technical Manual (MSCP Compatible)" It's nearly 200 pages and about 80MB, so it's too big for email. If you have (or someone else has) an ftp site, I can try uploading it. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org Sat Nov 2 15:35:00 2002 From: rwittig at chicago.us.mensa.org (Robert Wittig) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: Message-ID: <001701c282b7$e1a35900$9490c0d8@laptop> > I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences > used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same > problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this, > but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've > avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at > this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-) That was my text, being back-quoted by John, that had the weird escape codes. Is the problem something that is being generated by John's backquote, or am I the culprit? I am also using OE 5, and it should not be creating such a problem. I do a lot of posting on tech lists and NG's, where any deviation from plain ASCII rates an immediate flame, and to date, no-one has ever mentioned a problem. I also use pine and Netscrape on my *nix boxes, and have Calypso set up on this box, and have never seen anything like this before. OE 5 has several choices for indent on replies... I am using '> '. If John is using ': ' or '| ', (the other 2 choices), they might be getting read as something else by your MUA, and changing the indent might eliminate the problem. What MUA's are you guys running? -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ to master others is nothing. to master yourself is something. . From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Nov 2 15:52:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: more long vector Imlac stuff, was Re: Tales of VCF 5.0? In-Reply-To: References: <3DC18CB9.7090304@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021102154910.01ae2210@ubanproductions.com> At 10:55 AM 11/2/2002 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > The board in the center row, right-hand side is the TTY interface board. > > The long vector hardware is most probably that odd board added in the > > core memory section, top right in the picture. > >I'll try to get more and better pictures (Tom requested them too) so we >can get a better look. Trouble is the machines are tucked away in a tight >area. It'll be a few days before I can get out to the warehouse and pull >them out. > >In the meantime, here's a link to pictures I took when I first brought >home my PDS-1D: > >http://siconic.com/computers/Imlac/ Ok. So the things that I notice from those pics are that there seems to be some sort of board mounted on the back, which I've never seen on another mathine. The tube is mounted in a horizontal fashion instead of vertically, the programmer's console is a different style than any of the ones Bob or I have in that it has a selector knob. The photo here http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.radio-active.net.au/web/history/imlac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.radio-active.net.au/web/history/w2500.html&h=388&w=253&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dimlac%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8 also seems to have that knob. The next time that you get the chance, could you take a couple of closeup pics of the console for me. I would like to see what all is on it that ours do not have. Lastly, it looks like there is a wire wrap board in the long vector section of the machine (300-304). >The idea is to get them working at some point. I'm hoping Greg Thomson >(Maze author referenced previously) will take an interest in helping me >out. It'd be really cool to have a real game of Maze in my garage with >the original author ;) Indeed! --tom >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 2 15:57:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: <20021102183520.SLEN23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: Glen, check out Panix. www.panix.com I am am using Pine under Unix, and I telnet into them thru my local ISP, no PPP or other stuff required - they also have dial-ups in a good number of cities, more near the east coast since they are in NuYawk. I am using VanDayke's CRT on a Thinkpad, and it has never failed me, from living in India to living in the California Sierras, and with my cellphone when on the road. One thing, though, about Panix you might want to bear in mind. When you call them, something known as a 'human being' will answer the phone right away, and that person will not only know what you're talking about, you will be connected to another one of those 'human' devices, (I have never been on hold with them, BTW) and in my few tech calls, the person helping me knew precisely what they were talking about and gave me the complete, correct info the first time. I just thought it would be only fair to warn you. Cheers John From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Nov 2 16:02:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: avail: ATARI Hitchhikers Guide disk Message-ID: <006c01c282bb$d5867810$7800a8c0@george> Pulled a 5.25" floppy out of an old PC clone I picked up. It's an original `The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'. Got a number on it: IS4-AT1-FD1, and -FD2 on the flip side. I dunno what condition it's in, but there's no mechanical damage and no write-enable notch, so there's a reasonable chance that it hasn't been reformatted into a PC disk. Anyone want it? Bob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 2 16:19:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: TRS80 Model 3 i/o connectors (printer support) In-Reply-To: <20021102173713.53459.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com> from "Clayton Frank Helvey" at Nov 2, 2 09:37:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021102/beba7d09/attachment.ksh From ernestls at attbi.com Sat Nov 2 17:32:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF-UK was RE: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: <000101c280ae$25c30d80$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > Computer Festival > > I would try to get to one ... but it would depend where and when > > [London, Birmingham, Cambridge, Bletchley Park would be OK > locations for me > Penzance, Anglesey, Glasgow, Aberdeen would distinctly discourage. > Manchester might be a special case - a long journey, but the chance of > capitalising on probably the most influencial home of computing should not > be discounted.] > > Andy I would go to a VCF-UK without question. The most important aspect for me is advance notice. Six months at a minimum, more time to plan would be even better. E. From elmo at mminternet.com Sat Nov 2 17:45:06 2002 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: NEC PC 8001-A, Commodore SX64, Mac Color Classic for Trade Message-ID: <3DC463F4.6090208@mminternet.com> I picked up the following this morning: NEC PC 8001-A keyboard & base unit. Commodore SX64. Mac Color Classic 4/40 Left behind (like-new condition) Commodore 64 (no power brick) 1541 Floppy Drive Commodore Cassette Drive A cartridge labeled "SMORE". Comrex CR220 Serial Bus Printer None of these have any use or value to me, so if they do to YOU, please contact me off list for fair trade. Regards, Eliot From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Nov 2 17:58:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... References: <200211020453.XAA70625304@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <00de01c282cc$0ec81c90$c9000240@oemcomputer> Same problem ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:53 PM Subject: Re: VCF East 2.0... > It would help if www.vintage.org would respond... I've not been > able to connect for quite some time... I've tried each time I've > seen your message and I get nothing... > > Megan > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Nov 2 18:13:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF33@rs-sc-exc7.rs.river stonenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021102161751.02b70ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Let me check on diskspace and I may have room to have them here on my server :) At 04:59 AM 11/2/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I need to see if I still have the "Dec Rainbow Technical manual" still > >floating around and get the bloody thing scanned into PDF's or >something.... > >I do have that manual and it is already scanned, along with a bunch >of other Rainbow manuals (various printsets, service manual etc.). >If someone has an ftp site where they can be uploaded, let me know ... > >Antonio From jss at subatomix.com Sat Nov 2 18:48:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10270756402.20021102185011@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 2, 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > John, I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these > > ridiculous escape codes spread throughout. ... It seems special > > punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are being > > escaped in some wacky fashion. > > I don't think John is aware of it, or can even see the characters as such > in his mail client. For those who aren't seeing these: an example is '+ A D 4 -' (plus-sign, uppercase A, uppercase D, numeral 4, minus sign), without the spaces. That was used instead of a quoting character. > From his mail headers one can see that the likely culprit is Outlook: Well, sort of. The problem is how OE is configured. Look at the character set: > -> MIME-Version: 1.0 > -> Content-Type: text/plain; > -> charset="utf-7" Those escape sequences are UTF-7 escape sequences. UTF-7 is an encoding that translates 16-bit Unicode text into 7-bit ASCII text, as defined in RFC2152. > I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences John needs to change the character set used for outgoing mail. ISO-8859-1 should work fine. > There's probably some way to disable this, but I'll be damned if I ever > launch a Microsoft mail client. Granted, OE isn't the best mail client, but to be fair, this kind of misconfiguration isn't an OE-specific problem. I'm sure other mail clients can be set to send UTF-7, and they probably would call it a feature. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sat Nov 2 18:56:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. In-Reply-To: <000201c28219$880ad600$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <000201c28219$880ad600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <5371235881.20021102185811@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 1, 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Visual Basic has been TOTALLY revamped in Visual Studio.NET. Things that > were very hard or just about impossible to do before (such as your example > of multithreading, or command-line apps) are very easy and fully supported > now. OK. Now my other gripe: I'm a poor student. How can I get a legal copy of VS.NET for cheap? And I mean CHEAP. Free-as-in-beer development tools happen to be really good at knocking down barriers to entry. -- Jeffrey Sharp From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net Sat Nov 2 19:04:16 2002 From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Honeywell VIP (was Re: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs) References: <65486327.40191EBC.0BCE6344@aol.com> <1814143457.20021101192529@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DC41F24.3090502@pacbell.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > >I've got 6 or so of Honeywell terminals that look a lot like those. Mine >have some POS-app dedicated keys on them, I know, so mine are a little >different than yours. I haven't messed with them much. > [ ... ] > >http://www.freaknet.org/~martin/FreakNet/honey.html > Now *that* brings back memories. My first "real" programming job in the late 1970's was writing code in Coral and assembler for Honeywell Level 6 systems running GCOS MOD 400. The choice of Coral was probably a mistake - it was driven by a group of programmers who had recently arrived from Plessey and who wanted something higher level than assembler that wasn't COBOL. Unfortunately, Honeywell's Coral compiler had been provided as a checklist item so that Honeywell could bid on UK government contracts (at a time when it was mandatory to have support for Coral) and, consequently, it just wasn't expected that anyone would actually *use* it. GCOS MOD 400 was also quite a nice system to use and, when I later started to use UNIX it was interesting to see the similarities (and the differences) apart from the obvious common antecedent of Multics, I believe that Honewell had also borrowed a few ideas from UNIX as it had evolved during the 1970's - I seem to recall (possibly wrongly) that the MOD 400 editor was very similar to the UNIX "ed". Anyone else ever use a Level 6? From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 2 19:09:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Paging Sellam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, Your DNS seems to be down for both vintage.org and siconic.com. I've not been able to resolve either of them for several days. I would send this via email directly, but if your DNS is having issues, I don't know if this would make it there (although you do seem to be able to receive emails from classiccmp). -Toth From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 2 19:18:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 In-Reply-To: <20021102102426.27203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Jules Richardson wrote: > Will, > > > I came across a site today which provided more information on this critter, > > and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a copy > > of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version > or ? > > no idea on the data front. Did TurboDOS have built in multi-user support > (I know nothing about it)? If not then I'd definitely think that the > version on> this machine was custom, as it has support for at least 4 > if not 5 terminals in its current state. TurboDos does not have an inbuilt multiuser capability - ala MP/M. It's approach to multiuser is via a slave processor for each external user. The slave processor could be either an external computer linked to the master machine by serial, or whatever, and the number of slaves could run as high as 32. Slave processors were also commonly additional processor cards in a S100 box each of which was linked to an external terminal via a serial link. In either case, the 'master' processor played the role of manager of shared assets - disk, printer, etc. Because of the processor per user approach, the response of the system was little affected by user load. Nice concept and nicely executed. - don > That's just going by the cables at the back; there's a lot of unused pins on > the card edge connectors, so given that the website claims support for 62 > terminals I expect it could make use of some breakout box arrangment to give > more 25-pin terminal connectors. > > > Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what > > TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: > > http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm > > unfortunately I hit a bit of a snag with my machine. Following the flood damage > the previous owner had tried to fix the system. Trouble was, the machine has > two backplanes to it - the upper one with one row of card sockets and the lower > one with two rows. System cards from the top rack will also plug into the > bottom rack (which contains the PSU, mains voltage, and a spare slot for some > unknown board). The disk controller had been plugged into that spare slot... > :-( > > It wouldn't have got any mains voltages but it would have got +5 and +12V on > all sorts of pins that it shouldn't have. I also found that the disk data bus > (SCSI? SASI?) terminators had been misaligned and so it's possible some of the > data lines were shorted together or at least had a low resistance connected > across them. > > Curiously, the disk controller and the board the converts the system's > SCSI/SASI bus to MFM look to be identical on the P3500 (from the photos on the > website that Fritz posted about). So if one of those ever shows up, at the very > least it'd be invaluable for checking that the hard drive on this 3800 is still > operational - and in the absence of schematics for the 3800 it'd probably be > very useful for fixing the 3800's disk controller. > > > Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of some kind, apparently.. > > I'm not sure - I did a quick hunt on the web and there was very little > information around. One site seemed to imply that it was much older technology > than the 3800, but another site gave the impression it was much newer. Uless > the model number was reused they can't both be right :) > > cheers > > Jules > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 2 19:40:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: <20021102183520.SLEN23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > In the days before 'net access was commonly available to ordinary folks > like me, I used to spend a fair amount of time on BBSs, so I thought it > might be fun to use my older machines to do some BBSing. > Unfortunately, results from Google suggest that most BBSs are now only > Telnet-accessible. > > Anyone know where to get a fairly current list of dial-up BBSs? Here in Houston, there used to be a local BBS listing included in an electronic publication called "Connect! Magazine", which was distributed by a BBS called "Atomic Cafe". At one time, it contained 100s of active BBS listings, and was redistributed by nearly all the other local BBS. The listing was discontinued around 1998 or so, as there were very, very few public BBS systems still in local operation. You should still be able to find some FidoNet nodes that have dialup access, but there may not be any in your immediate area. I wish I knew of an archive of those "Connect! Magazine" publications, as space was tight back then, and I didn't think to archive copies... Most of the BBS systems that lasted past the commercialization of the internet became telnet accessible, and eventually most phased out dialup lines, since they cost much more to provide. I've been playing with the idea of setting up my own BBS on a system, and using a home-brew phone system simulator/PBX to handle dialing/switching. I haven't yet found plans for one that exactly meets my needs though, so I haven't done much past planning out the requirements and basic structure planning. My ideal system would include both pulse and tone dialing (gotta have pulse dial for those vintage modems...), and should be easy to expand/interconnect with another identical system so I could expand it as large as I'd ever need. I expect that somewhere between 32 and 64 "lines" would be way more than enough for my current systems, but I also expect the number of systems I own to increase over time. > I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find an ISP which can provide > a dial-up shell account (with POP3 email) which doesn't require PPP or > SSH. I could code PPP drivers for a vintage micro (although it would > suck up a lot of time), but I doubt that I could get both PPP and TCP/IP > running on a system with 64 KB RAM or less. > > Anyone know where to find an ISP which provides plain old dial-up access > from a micro running a terminal program? This seems to be harder and harder to find. I choose my current ISP simply because they offered a dialup accessible shell account, but in late 2000, they discontinued the service, citing y2k bugs. IIRC, the server ran Solaris, so I personally believe they just wanted to get rid of the maintenance and overhead, and used "y2k issues" as a convenient excuse. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 2 19:44:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > TurboDos does not have an inbuilt multiuser capability - ala MP/M. > It's approach to multiuser is via a slave processor for each external > user. The slave processor could be either an external computer linked to > the master machine by serial, or whatever, and the number of slaves > could run as high as 32. Slave processors were also commonly additional > processor cards in a S100 box each of which was linked to an external > terminal via a serial link. In either case, the 'master' processor > played the role of manager of shared assets - disk, printer, etc. > > Because of the processor per user approach, the response of the system > was little affected by user load. Nice concept and nicely executed. I have a full size 8-bit PC card somewhere that may be similar to what you describe. I have the breakout box for it too, and it appears that it can connect up to 8 terminals. I never have been able to identify it, but if this sounds like something someone has seen before, I'll be happy to pull it out and snap some photos. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 2 19:55:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: UTF-7 (was Re: OT: Best programming suite recommendations) In-Reply-To: "Robert Wittig" "Re: OT: Best programming suite recommendations." (Nov 2, 15:36) References: <001701c282b7$e1a35900$9490c0d8@laptop> Message-ID: <10211030156.ZM18014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 2, 15:36, Robert Wittig wrote: > > I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences > > used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same > > problem several months ago. Er, yes, IIRC it was the same person :-) > That was my text, being back-quoted by John, that had the weird escape codes. Is > the problem something that is being generated by John's backquote, or am I the > culprit? No, it's John's mail client. It's not just the quotes or whatever is being used to indent the quoted text. It's anything that isn't flat 7-bit ASCII, with some characters reserved to allow encoding. For example, the line > +ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg- contains 4 different escape sequences, one of which is 8 characters long! UTF-7 is a coding system designed to handle Unicode (which is normally 16-bit or 20-bit) by using escape sequences to encode non-ASCII characters in a way similar to the scheme base64 uses for whole chunks, and intended only for use on 7-bit systems that can't handle 8-bit data. > OE 5 has several choices for indent on replies... I am using '> '. If John is > using ': ' or '| ', (the other 2 choices), they might be getting read as > something else by your MUA, and changing the indent might eliminate the problem. > What MUA's are you guys running? The text appears with the wierd escape sequences on loads of MUAs, in fact probably most of them. Very few MUAs support UTF-7, because it has inefficient compression, there are other encodings that are more versatile, it's more awkward than most to program, and it's a one-to-many transform (for any given string, there are several possible encodings) so it produces unsearchable text. And since it came along later than the other common encoding schemes, and doesn't do anything the others can't, I suppose there was an element of "why bother?" If you look up Unicode and UTF-8, you'll find dozens of common applications that support it (and UTF-8 is the accepted standard for a whole load of things defined in RFCs, as well as the mail internationalization report from the IMC) but the only application I know of that definitely handles UTF-7 is Outlook. Quote from the IMC report: "Fortunately, very few vendors implemented UTF-7, and its use is strongly discouraged in Internet mail." The solution is to turn off the UTF-7 character set, use ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8 or something else that's commonly accepted, and then use a standard content-transfer encoding, like quoted-printable or base64 if you have to make it 7-bit-safe. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 2 19:57:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: Message-ID: <003f01c282dc$9ffbf1e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > What the hell is going on with your mail sender? I'll try to work up an explanation by Tomorrow and you try to fix DNS or whatever's wrong with http://www.vintage.org/ . Deal? John A. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 2 20:19:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 Message-ID: I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that they were not in great shape. After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!" Does anyone know very much about these? I managed to find this webpage fairly quickly using google: http://www.comdyna.com/gp6intro.htm What kind of applications did they have, etc? Any info you guys have would be great. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Nov 2 20:47:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Apple /// Profile Cable Message-ID: <04cc01c282e3$8a86c3b0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Does anyone know what the cable pin-out is for an Apple /// Profile card to the Profile drive? I've got both the card and the drive but no cable and I'd prefer not to guess wrong on the cable being straight through. Google didn't help, although I may have been a search weenie. Thanks in advance! Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021102/f0cee697/attachment.html From louiss at gate.net Sat Nov 2 21:21:00 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Apple /// Profile Cable In-Reply-To: <04cc01c282e3$8a86c3b0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: The cable is straight through. You may have to remove a pin if there is a blocked hole. Louis On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:48:51 -0800, Erik S. Klein wrote: #Does anyone know what the cable pin-out is for an Apple /// Profile card #to the Profile drive? I've got both the card and the drive but no cable #and I'd prefer not to guess wrong on the cable being straight through. # # # #Google didn't help, although I may have been a search weenie. # # # #Thanks in advance! # # # # Erik S. Klein # # www.vintage-computer.com # # # # From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Nov 2 23:13:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: <20021025152156.88072.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021025152156.88072.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Is there an Apple II emulator for any PDA? Seems like a winning >combination. > II in a Mac ran on the mac plus, and palms are sort of 68ks, so I think it could be done. Haven't seen it yet, wife is still glued to her IIIx and I don't get to play with it until I buy it something better. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Nov 2 23:21:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Classic kitchen computer products? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Nov 02, 2002 08:27:15 PM Message-ID: <200211030517.gA35H1T09599@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Is there an Apple II emulator for any PDA? Seems like a winning > >combination. > > > > II in a Mac ran on the mac plus, and palms are sort of 68ks, so I > think it could be done. Haven't seen it yet, wife is still glued to > her IIIx and I don't get to play with it until I buy it something > better. I know there are a couple for Windows CE devices. I tried them once, but can't remember where I downloaded them. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Nov 3 01:10:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF 5 pictures redone Message-ID: <04da01c28308$65061670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I reworked my VCF 5 pictures and added descriptions, many of which are undoubtedly wrong. There aren't any new pictures since the last posting, but if there are any corrections or additions to my descriptions I'd be happy to have them and will fix the site as quickly as I am able. The new stuff is at www.vintage-computer.com/vcf5.html Thanks! Erik From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 01:46:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. Message-ID: <3DC47F56.31451.23752719@localhost> From: "Lawrence Walker" To: "Robert Wittig" Date sent: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:01:05 -0600 Subject: Re: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. Send reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Priority: normal I haven't used tag lines for years really, since the BBS days, but I do admire some of the better ones and have on occasion used them when I am particularly incensed politically. I like this one which reminds me of something I remember attributed to Voltaire(wrongly I believe). "Lord give me the strength to contemplate my own true image without disgust". Not an especially good tag but a good moral graduent. Lawrence > -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ > to master others is nothing. > to master yourself is something. > . lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 01:49:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow Message-ID: <3DC48006.4103.2377D83D@localhost> From: "Lawrence Walker" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:01:05 -0600 Subject: Re: DEC Rainbow Send reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Priority: normal > > > > > If it has a graphic card you can also use it with a VR241. The original > > Byte > > Actually, you can use a VR241 without the graphics card. Just connect the > green input to the mono video output of the 'Bow. You'll get perfectly good > green text. > > OK, it's a waste of a colour monitor, but if it's all you have... > Good tip. It's certainly not in the Rainbow site archive and I might have been able to get my 'bow up and running earlier with a VR241. > > review claimed the VR201 was compatable with the VT102. > > Considering the former is a composite mono monitor and the latter is a > terminal, that's just impossible. > I was quoting one of the 2 reviews Byte did on the "bow. They generally slagged the Rainbow and were likely possible for part of it's lack of success. The other part was the DEC executives who never really liked the venture and saddled it with a bunch of prohibitives so as to not threaten their mini-market including the PRO and DECMate. > I think, though, that the 'Bow + VR201 will emulate a VT102. > > > Jeff Armstrong who wrote the Rainbow FAQ claimed there was a built-in > > terminal that could be accessed at the start-up menu by typing T altho I > > have never tried it. He also said a friend of his was using it for a > > terminal on his VAX II. > > There is, and it works. It's a pretty good VT100/VT102 emulation. > > > Tony Duell posted the pin-outs for both mono and color a while back on the > > list to make a monitor cable, which can be hard-to-find. The LK201's are > > Has this been archived anywhere? If not, should I post it again? > Well it should be in CC archives and of course I have it in mine. It would be good to have it on the Swedish Archives however. Hopefully the maintainer who answered Antonio Carlini's offer of the service manual, will also put it onto the site as it was a very comprehensive pinout listing. > As I've said several times before, if I put something on this list, then > you're welcome to stick copies on appropriate web sites, etc. I've essentially > made it public by posting it here. Note, I don't regard it as legally public > domain (I would not be at all happy if somebody else claimed ownership, for > example), but I am not going to object to it being shared. > > -tony > Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 01:50:29 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Rainbow docs Message-ID: <3DC48006.20522.2377D86F@localhost> From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Johnny Billquist , cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:01:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Rainbow docs Send reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Priority: normal Yes,Yes,Yes, Please ? Lawrence > On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 "Antonio Carlini" > wrote: > > > I do have that manual and it is already scanned, along with a bunch > > of other Rainbow manuals (various printsets, service manual etc.). > > If someone has an ftp site where they can be uploaded, let me know ... > > How about ftp.update.uu.se? > > Put it in incoming, and I'll move it to rainbow/doc > > Johnny > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 01:51:52 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. Message-ID: <3DC48006.8378.2377D89C@localhost> From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sellam Ismail , cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:01:05 -0600 Subject: Re: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. Send reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Priority: normal As you said in another post,(to paraphrase) I was about to retort but I've complained on the limit lately. It's been a constant anoyance but at least he's getting a bit more coherent. Lawrence PS Yeah, yeah ,I'll get that Atari ST Mac emulator program disks off to you. As the Jamaicans say "Soon come". Lawrence > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote: > > > +AD4- I would guess that what makes a particular language good, > > +AD4- is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do. > > > > My preferences are: Networking, 2D+ACY-3D Graphics, synthetic > > data structures, file ops, GUI's, in that order. > > > > +AD4- What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the > > +AD4- project is. > > > > I've done a couple of over 10Kline systems+ACo-. > > EG: OpenDX http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/9436.html > > > > John A. > > +ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg- > > http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/osscommitment.html > > Wish they had used that name while we were still there. > > John, > > I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these ridiculous > escape codes spread throughout. This has been the case pretty much since you > first signed on to this mailing list. > > See above. > > I've tried to tolerate it (and have strained to make sense of what is > going on with your messages) but I have to object finally. It seems > special punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are > being escaped in some wacky fashion. > > What the hell is going on with your mail sender? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 03:05:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: References: <20021102183520.SLEN23449.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3DC491A7.29878.23BCB7E1@localhost> I strongly miss the sense of community that we used to have on BBS's. The impersonalization of the "web" and the corporate takeover so that finding of actual information is so peppered with ads to the extent of rendering the search programs useless is a constant gripe. . FIDO was a more personal version of usenet and had a quality of community that is totally missing today. There have been many suggestions and proposals to start up something with classic computers in mind, and they usually get bogged down with the proposers predjudices as to the systems used and those to be responded to. CC has the minds that could set up some sort of FIDO, the thing is to do it. To your proposed ideas I say welcome, and if we get enough we can make a network, whether by phone relay or other methods. Lawrence > On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > In the days before 'net access was commonly available to ordinary folks > > like me, I used to spend a fair amount of time on BBSs, so I thought it > > might be fun to use my older machines to do some BBSing. > > Unfortunately, results from Google suggest that most BBSs are now only > > Telnet-accessible. > > > > Anyone know where to get a fairly current list of dial-up BBSs? > > Here in Houston, there used to be a local BBS listing included in an > electronic publication called "Connect! Magazine", which was distributed > by a BBS called "Atomic Cafe". At one time, it contained 100s of active > BBS listings, and was redistributed by nearly all the other local BBS. The > listing was discontinued around 1998 or so, as there were very, very few > public BBS systems still in local operation. You should still be able to > find some FidoNet nodes that have dialup access, but there may not be any > in your immediate area. I wish I knew of an archive of those "Connect! > Magazine" publications, as space was tight back then, and I didn't think > to archive copies... > > Most of the BBS systems that lasted past the commercialization of the > internet became telnet accessible, and eventually most phased out dialup > lines, since they cost much more to provide. > > I've been playing with the idea of setting up my own BBS on a system, and > using a home-brew phone system simulator/PBX to handle dialing/switching. > I haven't yet found plans for one that exactly meets my needs though, so I > haven't done much past planning out the requirements and basic structure > planning. My ideal system would include both pulse and tone dialing (gotta > have pulse dial for those vintage modems...), and should be easy to > expand/interconnect with another identical system so I could expand it as > large as I'd ever need. I expect that somewhere between 32 and 64 "lines" > would be way more than enough for my current systems, but I also expect > the number of systems I own to increase over time. > > > I'm also having a hell of a time trying to find an ISP which can provide > > a dial-up shell account (with POP3 email) which doesn't require PPP or > > SSH. I could code PPP drivers for a vintage micro (although it would > > suck up a lot of time), but I doubt that I could get both PPP and TCP/IP > > running on a system with 64 KB RAM or less. > > > > Anyone know where to find an ISP which provides plain old dial-up access > > from a micro running a terminal program? > > This seems to be harder and harder to find. I choose my current ISP simply > because they offered a dialup accessible shell account, but in late 2000, > they discontinued the service, citing y2k bugs. IIRC, the server ran > Solaris, so I personally believe they just wanted to get rid of the > maintenance and overhead, and used "y2k issues" as a convenient excuse. > > -Toth > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Nov 3 03:07:11 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021102161751.02b70ec0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF33@rs-sc-exc7.rs.river stonenet.com> Message-ID: <3DC491A7.21169.23BCB7AA@localhost> Well the offer is genuine and welcome. I think never-the-less it should be on the Swedish site for posterity. What would be better is if Jeff Armstrong's now defunct Rainbow site and the Rainbow FAQ were to find a safe haven if he still has it archived somewhere. Lawrence > Let me check on diskspace and I may have room to have them here on my server :) > > At 04:59 AM 11/2/02 -0800, you wrote: > > > >I need to see if I still have the "Dec Rainbow Technical manual" still > > >floating around and get the bloody thing scanned into PDF's or > >something.... > > > >I do have that manual and it is already scanned, along with a bunch > >of other Rainbow manuals (various printsets, service manual etc.). > >If someone has an ftp site where they can be uploaded, let me know ... > > > >Antonio > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 3 04:37:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: <3DC491A7.29878.23BCB7E1@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Here in Houston, there used to be a local BBS listing included in an > > electronic publication called "Connect! Magazine", which was > > distributed by a BBS called "Atomic Cafe". At one time, it contained > > 100s of active BBS listings, and was redistributed by nearly all the > > other local BBS. The listing was discontinued around 1998 or so, as > > there were very, very few public BBS systems still in local operation. > > You should still be able to find some FidoNet nodes that have dialup > > access, but there may not be any in your immediate area. I wish I knew > > of an archive of those "Connect! Magazine" publications, as space was > > tight back then, and I didn't think to archive copies... > > > > Most of the BBS systems that lasted past the commercialization of the > > internet became telnet accessible, and eventually most phased out > > dialup lines, since they cost much more to provide. > > > > I've been playing with the idea of setting up my own BBS on a system, > > and using a home-brew phone system simulator/PBX to handle > > dialing/switching. I haven't yet found plans for one that exactly > > meets my needs though, so I haven't done much past planning out the > > requirements and basic structure planning. My ideal system would > > include both pulse and tone dialing (gotta have pulse dial for those > > vintage modems...), and should be easy to expand/interconnect with > > another identical system so I could expand it as large as I'd ever > > need. I expect that somewhere between 32 and 64 "lines" would be way > > more than enough for my current systems, but I also expect the number > > of systems I own to increase over time. I guess I need to clarify just a little here...I'm taking of an internal telephone-type system that I can connect all of my computer systems to. It really isn't that easy to have everything connected and ready to use at any given moment. Of course, some folks will consider my "Ideal" switching system to be overkill, which perhaps it is :) > I strongly miss the sense of community that we used to have on BBS's. > The impersonalization of the "web" and the corporate takeover so that > finding of actual information is so peppered with ads to the extent of > rendering the search programs useless is a constant gripe. . FIDO was a > more personal version of usenet and had a quality of community that is > totally missing today. There have been many suggestions and proposals to > start up something with classic computers in mind, and they usually get > bogged down with the proposers predjudices as to the systems used and > those to be responded to. Oh boy, this topic can open a can of worms if one is not careful... I actually made more use of local BBS systems then the web right up till the end. I found once I lost those, that I still had little use for the web, and instead more often made use of services such as irc, usenet, and ftp. Reluctantly, I have been forced more and more to use the web over more efficient services such as ftp, but I have not been happy with that change. Perhaps I am being abit of an alarmist here, but I really don't see the internet _as a whole_ being able to continue along its current path of corporate abuse. In reality, it goes well beyond just the internet, and can be expanded to technology and society in general. Over the last 20+ years (and honestly, I've not been involved in technology that long, but I have done my homework), commercial interests seem to have had a very negative impact on the "personal" nature of communications. The very same commercial interests have also stifled innovation, but that is still related to a slowdown of communications, which has in turn been influenced by the increased restrictions on the sharing of information. The current US (and sadly, even the evolving global) patent and copyright systems tend to allow for major corporate abuse. Even universities today have really tightened down on the free-flow of information, which overall, has really hurt R/D and innovation in general. Many of the very R/D labs that gave us the technology that created the internet no longer exist. The ones that do still exist are for the most part not in R/D mode anymore. I personally believe that if our current socioeconomical system had been in place 20 years ago, the internet as we know it today would simply have never come to exist. Quite possibly, the internet would have never existed at all... Perhaps this little rant is somewhat OT, but I suspect I'm not the only one here on this list who has started to come to these sorts of conclusions. > CC has the minds that could set up some sort of FIDO, the thing is to > do it. Yes, CC seems to be made up of some of the best and brightest minds I've found on the internet (and over the years, I've been all over the darned thing). I really wish I'd found classiccmp years ago, since it seems to be one of the few places where I can often find like minded people that can understand what I happen to be talk^H^H^H^Hranting about at any given moment ;) > To your proposed ideas I say welcome, and if we get enough we can make > a network, whether by phone relay or other methods. Well, again, I think my earlier post wasn't clear enough, but I would certainly welcome a more free flowing information network. Sadly, I think the overall restriction of information goes well beyond the physical (and is it really?) network, and overall might be better addressed by education. [Alright, thats my $0.50 worth at 4:30am, anyone else wanna comment? ;P] -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 3 04:47:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF 5 pictures redone In-Reply-To: "Erik S. Klein" "VCF 5 pictures redone" (Nov 2, 23:12) References: <04da01c28308$65061670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <10211031049.ZM18313@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 2, 23:12, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I reworked my VCF 5 pictures and added descriptions, many of which are > undoubtedly wrong. There aren't any new pictures since the last > posting, but if there are any corrections or additions to my > descriptions I'd be happy to have them and will fix the site as quickly > as I am able. > > The new stuff is at www.vintage-computer.com/vcf5.html Nice pictures! I was especially interested to see the IBM 5100, as I've not seen one of those for nearly two decades! I enjoyed the rest of your site, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From hansp at aconit.org Sun Nov 3 05:06:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF 5 pictures redone References: <04da01c28308$65061670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <10211031049.ZM18313@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3DC50387.6010809@aconit.org> > On Nov 2, 23:12, Erik S. Klein wrote: >>I reworked my VCF 5 pictures and added descriptions, many of which are >>undoubtedly wrong. There aren't any new pictures since the last >>posting, but if there are any corrections or additions to my >>descriptions I'd be happy to have them and will fix the site as quickly >>as I am able. >> >>The new stuff is at www.vintage-computer.com/vcf5.html Nice pictures, I really must recover my KIM-1 serial number 1. I presume that belongs to the other Hans? since I was not, unfortunately there!! What is it about classic computers and beards? Cause and effect, but which way??? -- hbp From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Nov 3 08:11:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: <20021103141433.PWJZ13979.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Thanks, John. Panix looks like a good solution, although I don't know if I can handle real live tech support ;>) Glen 0/0 ---------- > From: John Lawson > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: BBSs & PPP > Date: Saturday, November 02, 2002 4:59 PM > > > > Glen, check out Panix. www.panix.com > > I am am using Pine under Unix, and I telnet into them thru my local ISP, > no PPP or other stuff required - they also have dial-ups in a good number > of cities, more near the east coast since they are in NuYawk. > > I am using VanDayke's CRT on a Thinkpad, and it has never failed me, > from living in India to living in the California Sierras, and with my > cellphone when on the road. > > One thing, though, about Panix you might want to bear in mind. When you > call them, something known as a 'human being' will answer the phone right > away, and that person will not only know what you're talking about, you > will be connected to another one of those 'human' devices, (I have never > been on hold with them, BTW) and in my few tech calls, the person helping > me knew precisely what they were talking about and gave me the complete, > correct info the first time. > > I just thought it would be only fair to warn you. > > > Cheers > > John > > > From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 3 11:31:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: Kappro 2 acquired References: <04da01c28308$65061670$6e7ba8c0@piii933> <10211031049.ZM18313@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3DC50387.6010809@aconit.org> Message-ID: <004a01c2835f$0e13b6e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I found a curbside Kaypro2 which politely asks me for a diskette so it is apparently in working order. Would somebody like to quote me a price for copies of a "get started" diskette set for this machine? Offline is OK. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Nov 3 11:42:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Glen, Sorry, I was swamped when you posted the original query, and accidentally deleted it too. For a dialup shell account, there's Realtime in Austin, and I think they are regional if not national. www.bga.com There are also a bunch (8-12) active FidoNet nodes here. I remember having to beat Google pretty hard to find the listing, though. Good luck with active BBS dialups. If you find a current listing, I'd really like to see it. I get free long-distance on my cellphone; I might set up IrDA and do some 9600bps BBSing. Just for nostalgia's sake. :) Doc From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Nov 3 11:45:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: DEC VT10x and VR201s (was Re: DEC Rainbow) Message-ID: <200211031745.gA3Hj9g25755@io.crash.com> > > review claimed the VR201 was compatable with the VT102. > > Considering the former is a composite mono monitor and the latter is a > terminal, that's just impossible. I seem to recall that many/most VT100's had composite video out - mine do - and this was frequently used in the classroom to drive a larger monitor, or distributed to several monitors/terminals throughout the classroom. This way my Data Structures professor could show us *exactly* what she was on about. Perhaps there was an adapter to use the VR201 in this manner? I can remember staring at the displays, but not what was rendering them. I know she was working on a VT100, but can't "see" the slaved monitor in memory... --Steve. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 3 12:06:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP References: <20021103141433.PWJZ13979.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <007a01c28363$f119dc40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Glen, check out Panix. www.panix.com I have been using Panix for about 6 years. They offer me: PPP, shell access, Telnet, all other popular protocols, personal websites with CGI. I don't use Unix Mail, but it's there. I have experienced essentially *No* downtime in 6 years. They are one of the old-timers that have as rich a history as, say, 'The WELL' does. The problems that the MS Outlook Express client introduces to some of my eMails I would not attempt in the least to tie to Panix. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 3 12:52:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: VCF 5 References: <20021103141433.PWJZ13979.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <007a01c28363$f119dc40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00c001c2836a$5df67480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Here's a VCF animated "Commercial" from someone named "Uncle Rodger" who I don't know is a lister or not, discovered while searching Kaypro sites. It's pretty good. http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/vcfban.gif John A. From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 3 13:07:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:39 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Nov 03, 2002 04:40:48 AM Message-ID: <200211031908.OAA18269@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > I actually made more use of local BBS systems then the web right up till > the end. I found once I lost those, that I still had little use for the > web, and instead more often made use of services such as irc, usenet, and > ftp. Reluctantly, I have been forced more and more to use the web over > more efficient services such as ftp, but I have not been happy with that > change. I was the opposite. I used BBSs until I found the Internet (actually, first I found the IBM internal forums when I worked there in 1990, then in 1991 I really started using email/Usenet) and I never looked back. With a wider range of people and topics to talk about, the local BBS scene just didn't interest me any more. That, and the porn was easier to get 8-P Also, FTP is no more efficient than HTTP---once the data starts coming there is *no* difference in the protocol at this point---it's just a straight TCP copy from one system to another and it then comes down to how efficient TCP is. Zmodem is probably the *most* efficient in the transferring of data, but you need a nice clean 8-bit communications channel to gain those benefits; I could *not* use Zmodem reliably while dialed into the university for instance (couldn't even use Xmodem reliably and instead had to use Kermit, which is probably the *least* efficient in transferring data but it works when nothing else can). I do remember using archie to locate programs available via FTP, and even pulling one or two packages off Usenet but nowadays I find most of the software on the web (via Google). Also, using FTP is a pain in these days of firewalls and NATing (try, just try, FTPing a file between two systems, each behind a firewall. Can you say ``futility?'') > Perhaps I am being abit of an alarmist here, but I really don't see the > internet _as a whole_ being able to continue along its current path of > corporate abuse. In reality, it goes well beyond just the internet, and > can be expanded to technology and society in general. [ snip ] Most of this I can attribute to entrenched interests maintaining the status quo, and learning that legislation is a very effective way to those ends. > The current US (and sadly, even the evolving global) patent and copyright > systems tend to allow for major corporate abuse. Even universities today > have really tightened down on the free-flow of information, which overall, > has really hurt R/D and innovation in general. Many of the very R/D labs > that gave us the technology that created the internet no longer exist. The > ones that do still exist are for the most part not in R/D mode anymore. R & D takes a long view on investments, which our current economic system does not reward. Heck, today, a long view is considered a year, maybe two. Not enough to support basic research. > > CC has the minds that could set up some sort of FIDO, the thing is to > > do it. > > Yes, CC seems to be made up of some of the best and brightest minds I've > found on the internet (and over the years, I've been all over the darned > thing). I really wish I'd found classiccmp years ago, since it seems to be > one of the few places where I can often find like minded people that can > understand what I happen to be talk^H^H^H^Hranting about at any given > moment ;) Which comes to you via the Internet, which is a local call. Imagine if you had to dial long distance to participate? Or wait several days for your message to propagate via UUCP/FIDO? Would it still be as effective? -spc (Possibly, but it would be a lot slower ... ) From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Nov 3 13:30:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211031908.OAA18269@conman.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I do remember using archie to locate programs available via FTP, and even > pulling one or two packages off Usenet but nowadays I find most of the > software on the web (via Google). Also, using FTP is a pain in these days > of firewalls and NATing (try, just try, FTPing a file between two systems, > each behind a firewall. Can you say ``futility?'') s/a firewall/a poorly-administered MS firewall/ I move files (by both FTP and scp) regularly between very tightly firewalled networks. If the Network/Firewall Dude has any clue at all, it's simple to enable even active FTP transactions. NetMeeting is much more of a challenge. The MS setup demands random ports between 1024 and 65536, with *no* facility to limit the range.... Doc From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Nov 3 13:59:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out > at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not > knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that > they were not in great shape. > > After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was > with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and > multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!" More info about the one I have - looks to be an early model - with nixie tubes intead of the modern LED voltmeter. Also, the problem with the display tubes went away when I reseated the display cards in their sockets. After playing with this little guy, I'm suprised at how stable the components are - when I'm not touching anything, there's basicall NO jitter on the display. It looks like some component values have deteoriated or drifted a bit, but seems in nearly excellent shape. I'm about to go out to RatShack so I can get some more banana plugs and create some more patch cables (assuming that they still sell those...) One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks at the bottom of the front panel are, and how to use the multipliers? I can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... Thanks for any info Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 3 14:53:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: FY Sellam MS OE Message-ID: <045701c2837b$5964f5c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> (It means "For You", yes. yes, that's what it means ) For those wondering where my bad escape sequences came from, or why, here is a partial explanation. I used to get ISO encoded messages when I originated a message to Classiccmp and UTF-7 encodings ($ = '$', = = '=', _ = '_', etc.)** when I used "Reply". A while back I noticed that sometimes after setting an encoding and sending to the list that the encoding was lost to UTF-7 anyway. This was about the same time as the list software change so back them I assumed incorrectly that the new software was setting UTF-7 headers (Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7") and loosing my ISO ones (...charset="iso-8859-1"). Now it seems that the way the setting was getting lost was by saving and recalling message drafts in MS OExpress. It is very possible that there are other ways MS will mess this up but for now I think it's fixed. FYI here is my file entry on the subject. "List of Encoding Problems with Outlook Express: You can't shut off charset encoding. (Two choices: MIME and UUEncode. There is a "MIME: encode text using None" option which doesn't work, it still encodes.) You can't set an encoding 'for once and for all'. There is no clear indicator of the encoding in use (have to go down two menus to check/set each message). Selecting a useful encoding [Western European (ISO)] results in display using an undesirable proportional width font. Manually selected encodings are easily lost and overridden to UTF-7 (example: set ISO, save as Draft, recall, send, it will be UTF-7**) The appearance of an encoding is buggy; what appears when reviewing a saved message is sometimes decoded, sometimes not, with the same message. Can't check a message header on an unsent message." so Sellam aggravation is nothing compared to this If somebody wants to help, why is one of my messages today (Sunday, November 03, 2002) 1:07 PM, BBS..., about Panix, appearing as proportoional font and 1:53 PM, about vcfban.gif, appearing as fixed width font, to me anyway. MS-UGH! John A. ** hope this displays correctly, the sequences will probably be lost. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 3 15:01:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: FY Sellam MS OE Message-ID: <046901c2837c$756daae0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> FWIW, I manually copied the 4 character UTF encodings into that last message and MS decoded them back to single characters "for me". C'est lavvie*! John A. *intentional (Spelling right, Tony?) From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Nov 3 15:55:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: <20021103215855.UEZM3370.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Doc -- Looks like bga.com is local only :>( I found a BBS list, and there actually are some dialups left. It's at http://www.usbbs.org/ Later -- Glen 0/0 ---------- > From: Doc Shipley > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: BBSs & PPP > Date: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:43 PM > > Glen, > Sorry, I was swamped when you posted the original query, and > accidentally deleted it too. > For a dialup shell account, there's Realtime in Austin, and I think > they are regional if not national. www.bga.com > There are also a bunch (8-12) active FidoNet nodes here. I remember > having to beat Google pretty hard to find the listing, though. > Good luck with active BBS dialups. If you find a current listing, I'd > really like to see it. I get free long-distance on my cellphone; I > might set up IrDA and do some 9600bps BBSing. Just for nostalgia's > sake. :) > > Doc > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Nov 3 16:08:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP Message-ID: <20021103221153.ULBB3370.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Actually, here's an even better list: http://bbscorner.cjb.net/ ---------- > From: Doc Shipley > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: BBSs & PPP > Date: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:43 PM > > Glen, > Sorry, I was swamped when you posted the original query, and > accidentally deleted it too. > For a dialup shell account, there's Realtime in Austin, and I think > they are regional if not national. www.bga.com > There are also a bunch (8-12) active FidoNet nodes here. I remember > having to beat Google pretty hard to find the listing, though. > Good luck with active BBS dialups. If you find a current listing, I'd > really like to see it. I get free long-distance on my cellphone; I > might set up IrDA and do some 9600bps BBSing. Just for nostalgia's > sake. :) > > Doc > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 3 16:16:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211031908.OAA18269@conman.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > > Reluctantly, I have been forced more and more to use the web over more > > efficient services such as ftp, but I have not been happy with that > > change. > > Also, FTP is no more efficient than HTTP---once the data starts coming > there is *no* difference in the protocol at this point---it's just a > straight TCP copy from one system to another and it then comes down to > how efficient TCP is. Zmodem is probably the *most* efficient in the > transferring of data, but you need a nice clean 8-bit communications > channel to gain those benefits; I could *not* use Zmodem reliably while > dialed into the university for instance (couldn't even use Xmodem > reliably and instead had to use Kermit, which is probably the *least* > efficient in transferring data but it works when nothing else can). Well, by efficient I meant finding files. The current state of most websites often makes it very difficult to find a particular file -- even when you know exactly what you are looking for. A well maintained FTP site on the other hand, is pretty straightforward to navigate. > I do remember using archie to locate programs available via FTP, and > even pulling one or two packages off Usenet but nowadays I find most of > the software on the web (via Google). Google & friends would be great, but many commercial (and increasing numbers of independent) websites use robots.txt to block crawlers such as Google from indexing their servers. This kinda defeats the purpose of those search engines, and means you still have to find stuff the hard way. Even if you know what company made something, and find their website, you still have to navigate the darned thing, and increasing numbers of sites are transforming their websites into a graphical wasteland. Case in point: Adaptec. They once had a *great* FTP site, which was well maintained and easy to navigate. Now, they have disabled 'LIST' on the FTP server, and instead force people to use their website to find files. The real problem with this, is that many of the older files are not linked in any way from their website. As a commercial organization, they have very little incentive to add links to all of the files for their older products. > Also, using FTP is a pain in these days of firewalls and NATing (try, > just try, FTPing a file between two systems, each behind a firewall. > Can you say ``futility?'') I've not had much of a problem with it, and I suspect that has more to do with how well those firewalls are configured. > Most of this I can attribute to entrenched interests maintaining the > status quo, and learning that legislation is a very effective way to > those ends. Perhaps...but in the longterm, it tends to backfire. I don't think I need to bother with any examples, as those are quite abundant :) > R & D takes a long view on investments, which our current economic > system does not reward. Heck, today, a long view is considered a year, > maybe two. Not enough to support basic research. Exactly. What worries me, is that without the ongoing basic research (and funding thereof), where is our next major technological breakthrough or achievement going to come from? I mean, broadband internet is nice, but I hardly consider that a technological breakthrough. Besides, right now, would most people even need (or want) that broadband connection if it were not for the graphical bloat currently found on the web? > > Yes, CC seems to be made up of some of the best and brightest minds > > I've found on the internet (and over the years, I've been all over the > > darned thing). I really wish I'd found classiccmp years ago, since it > > seems to be one of the few places where I can often find like minded > > people that can understand what I happen to be talk^H^H^H^Hranting > > about at any given moment ;) > > Which comes to you via the Internet, which is a local call. Imagine > if you had to dial long distance to participate? Or wait several days > for your message to propagate via UUCP/FIDO? Would it still be as > effective? It is a local call for most of us in the US, but on the other side of the pond, that isn't always the case. With FIDO, the small daily charges for telephone calls would certainly add up, but it is hard to say if they would be much more than what the average subscriber currently pays for dialup service. There would indeed be message lag, but that isn't always a problem. Even email and usenet have message lag, granted it is usually much shorter. Increasingly, the internet is becoming more and more accessible to everyone, but at what costs to the internet? It seems to me that huge connectivity providers bring people to the internet, but do not even bother to educate them at all. Honestly, it seems like a majority of the people who get a "canned" version of the internet seem to think that the 'net exists just for them, and they can do whatever they please with it. We also have major media companies with a strong bias toward content control who now own or manage major connectivity providers. To me that situation looks pretty dim. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Nov 3 16:19:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: <20021103221153.ULBB3370.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Actually, here's an even better list: > > http://bbscorner.cjb.net/ Cool! Even some local numbers. Thanks, Glen! I had found The USBBS lists, and there's not much there. I think I'm gonna be up pretty late tonight.... Doc From red at bears.org Sun Nov 3 16:41:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Well, by efficient I meant finding files. The current state of most > websites often makes it very difficult to find a particular file -- even > when you know exactly what you are looking for. A well maintained FTP site > on the other hand, is pretty straightforward to navigate. Um, I hate to interrupt your rant, but a "well maintained" HTTP site is pretty straightforward to navigate, as well. I've navigated plenty of horrible FTP sites. A service implemented badly is a horror, HTTP or not. ok r. From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Sun Nov 3 16:51:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Build your own PDP-8! Message-ID: Bob, If it's not too late, I would like to sign up for a PBC and CPU chip as well. regards Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: bob@jfcl.com [mailto:bob@jfcl.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:55 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Build your own PDP-8! > > > > In about twenty four hours eleven people have signed up for > 13 PC boards. > This is far more than I ever expected, and I'm glad to see so > many people > interested in PDP-8s and the SBC6120. I plan to keep taking > sign ups until > Monday, or we get to 20, which ever is first. > > BTW, the number of people signed up for our cooperative so > far is enough > to guarantee a PCB price somewhere in the low $30 range. > > Thanks again, > Bob Armstrong > > > If you're one of those people who wants a PDP-8 but can't > find one, don't > >despair - you can always build your own! The SBC6120 is a > complete PDP-8 > >built around the venerable Harris HM6120 CPU and modern > programmable logic > >devices. All parts used except the 6120 are contemporary, > easily available > >devices. > > > > The entire system fits on a PC board 6.2" by 4.2" and has > approximately the > >same footprint as a 3.5" hard disk. The SBC6120 has an IDE > disk interface, > >an optional 2Mb non-volatile RAM disk (that's as big as an > RK05!), and a true > >KL8/E compatible console terminal interface. OS/8 device > handlers are > >available for the IDE and RAM disks, and the system will run standard > >OS/8 V3D. There's even an expansion bus so you can design > and build your > >own daughter cards to plug into it. > > > > To find out more, visit the SBC6120 web page at > > > > http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm > > > > I've recently had two requests to buy SBC6120 PC boards. > These are four > >layer boards with plated holes and are quite expensive in > quantity one or two, > >but the price falls per piece falls dramatically for > quantities as small as > >four or six. I'd like to find a few other people who would > be interested in > >building their own SBC6120 and going in together on a PCB > order. The price > >for a SBC6120 PC board would be something like: > > > > Two boards ==> $100 per board > > Four " ==> $60 per board > > Six " ==> $45 per board > > Ten " ==> $36 per board > > > > I also have about four spare 6120 chips, which I'm willing > to sell at my > >cost of $50 each. Believe it or not, it is still possible > to buy new old > >stock 6120s, at $50 each, with a minimum order of ten (!!), > but if enough > >people want SBC6120s we could always go this route. > > > > If you're interested, please write to me at bob@jfcl.com. > > > >Bob Armstrong > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021103/0d6a91c3/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 3 17:56:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Well, by efficient I meant finding files. The current state of most > > websites often makes it very difficult to find a particular file -- even > > when you know exactly what you are looking for. A well maintained FTP site > > on the other hand, is pretty straightforward to navigate. > > Um, I hate to interrupt your rant, but a "well maintained" HTTP site is > pretty straightforward to navigate, as well. > > I've navigated plenty of horrible FTP sites. A service implemented badly > is a horror, HTTP or not. I can't argue there, but the number of well maintained FTP sites was much higher than the number of well maintained HTTP sites. As the FTP sites go away, HTTP sites for the most part haven't improved much, unless you consider javascript only download pages an improvement. -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 3 18:16:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: FY Sellam MS OE In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "FY Sellam MS OE" (Nov 3, 15:55) References: <045701c2837b$5964f5c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10211040009.ZM18734@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 3, 15:55, John Allain wrote: > A while back I noticed that sometimes after setting an encoding and > sending to the list that the encoding was lost to UTF-7 anyway. This > was about the same time as the list software change so back them I > assumed incorrectly that the new software was setting UTF-7 headers > (Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7") and loosing my ISO ones > (...charset="iso-8859-1"). Now it seems that the way the setting was > getting lost was by saving and recalling message drafts in MS OExpress. > It is very possible that there are other ways MS will mess this up but for > now I think it's fixed. Well, it seems to be, for this message at least. Thanks for persevering with this, I almost added an metoo to Sellam's message :-) > FYI here is my file entry on the subject. > "List of Encoding Problems with Outlook Express: > You can't shut off charset encoding. > (Two choices: MIME and UUEncode. > There is a "MIME: encode text using None" > option which doesn't work, it still encodes.) > You can't set an encoding 'for once and for all'. > There is no clear indicator of the encoding in use > (have to go down two menus to check/set each message). > Selecting a useful encoding [Western European (ISO)] > results in display using an undesirable proportional > width font. > Manually selected encodings are easily lost and overridden > to UTF-7 (example: set ISO, save as Draft, recall, send, > it will be UTF-7**) > The appearance of an encoding is buggy; what appears when > reviewing a saved message is sometimes decoded, sometimes > not, with the same message. > Can't check a message header on an unsent message." > so Sellam aggravation is nothing compared to this I can imagine! But other people use OE without these problems. My mailbox currently contains 47 messages created with OE, including some from at least ten other listmembers, and only yours have the UTF-7 problem(s). Some are version 4.72, some 5, some 5.50, some 6.00, etc. I even found several with exactly the same version you have (5.00.2615.200), so it looks like there's something else in your setup that's making OE prefer UTF-7. I don't know much about Outlook or Express, but doesn't it have two or three places for these settings? One for current, one for default, and maybe something for per-recipient preferences (as in "this user prefers to receive fancy text" or something similar)? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 3 18:28:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: <3DC48006.4103.2377D83D@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 3, 2 01:46:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1910 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021103/a91f7ece/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 3 18:29:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: DEC VT10x and VR201s (was Re: DEC Rainbow) In-Reply-To: <200211031745.gA3Hj9g25755@io.crash.com> from "Steve Jones" at Nov 3, 2 12:46:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 999 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021103/60003e65/attachment.ksh From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 3 21:38:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Nov 03, 2002 04:20:10 PM Message-ID: <200211040339.WAA19440@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > > I do remember using archie to locate programs available via FTP, and > > even pulling one or two packages off Usenet but nowadays I find most of > > the software on the web (via Google). > > Google & friends would be great, but many commercial (and increasing > numbers of independent) websites use robots.txt to block crawlers such as > Google from indexing their servers. This kinda defeats the purpose of > those search engines, and means you still have to find stuff the hard way. Heh ... the number of commercial sites I visit can be counted on one amputated hand. I tend to use software that I can get the source code for, or write my own. I may be atypical in this reguard. > > Which comes to you via the Internet, which is a local call. Imagine > > if you had to dial long distance to participate? Or wait several days > > for your message to propagate via UUCP/FIDO? Would it still be as > > effective? > > It is a local call for most of us in the US, but on the other side of the > pond, that isn't always the case. With FIDO, the small daily charges for > telephone calls would certainly add up, but it is hard to say if they > would be much more than what the average subscriber currently pays for > dialup service. There would indeed be message lag, but that isn't always a > problem. Even email and usenet have message lag, granted it is usually > much shorter. Back in the early 90s I found out that what I considered a local call is not necessarily what the phone companies call a local call. I went to visit family in the Detroit area (Royal Oak) and I arranged access through some system (Tymnet? It's been way too long for me to remember anymore) so that I could get access to my college account in Florida. I only had to dial a seven digit phone number (in Royal Oak) for access and to me, that meant the phone call must have been local. I racked up over $100 in phone charges. Apparently, up there, a local call is restricted to those homes you can see from your front porch. Down here it's any phone within a fifteen mile radius. Of course down here the situation has gotten worse in other ways---Dade County (Miami) and now Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale) now require 10-digit dialing (since both now have two area codes overlaid), but I live just north of Broward County (Palm Beach County) and by just north, by like a mile. If I'm dialing a number in the Broward area, it's hit or miss if I can dial just seven digits, ten digits or 1 plus the area code plus the number. And then there was the time I tried dialing a Boca Raton number (561---Palm Beach County) from Coral Springs (954---Broward) from a pay phone (remember those?) Put the money in, dial seven digits. Sorry, must dial a 1 or a 0, and the area code when dialing this number. Sigh. Try again. Sorry, you do not need to dial a one or a zero or the area code when dialing this number. Okay, try seven digits. Sorry, need ten. Try ten. Sorry, need seven. Try 0. Operator can only give money back (as this wasn't a HellSouth payphone). Try 00 to talk to a HellSouth operator. Sorry, can't connect this call since this isn't a HellSouth phone. Oh, sorry. I started ranting there 8-) -spc (And the CEOs don't care---they got theirs so f**k you!) From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Sun Nov 3 22:43:01 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #259 - 6 msgs References: <20021103180001.65815.78222.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DC5FB21.58406521@bigvalley.net> Well, here's my "me too VCF writeup," with pictures of VCF and the computer museum for those who can't get enough... http://www.portcommodore.com/vcf5/ Larry P.S. ...and the final programs from the programming challenge! -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 4 03:05:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I guess I need to clarify just a little here...I'm taking of an internal >telephone-type system that I can connect all of my computer systems to. It >really isn't that easy to have everything connected and ready to use at >any given moment. Of course, some folks will consider my "Ideal" switching >system to be overkill, which perhaps it is :) One of my friends has some kind of AT&T Merlin phone system in his house. He thinks everybody else is missing something. As for BBSing, I think something like it will show, but it takes the old BBS combination of enough local people with some fairly broad common interest that INCLUDES locality. People are just now getting used to the concept that more than just their browser should be feeding off the net, ie music player, email, etc. all seamlessly access the web and its resources now, so that a new piece of software that fills the BBS spot could be welcomed quickly. I think the element of locality is essential, otherwise its just like this list, the automatic tendency is narrow focus. Once you have a strong enough local aspect, you get a host of OK local topics. From ceby2 at csc.com Mon Nov 4 07:08:00 2002 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #256 - 58 msgs Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021104/55a62569/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 4 09:14:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: MORE AN/UYK-20 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021104094046.4987edd2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. Several people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more requests than computers. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to decide who gets one and who doesn't? Or any suggestions about shipping? These are roughly 24" cube and weigh about 160 pounds. I MAY be able to use a friends warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with stretch wrap. I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them but from the looks of them, they look like they'll survive anything. They're located near Orlando Florida. Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 4 09:39:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: MORE AN/UYK-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021104094046.4987edd2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. > Several people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more > requests than computers. Dice. > I MAY be able to use a > friends warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with > stretch wrap. This is probably the only real option. Even with the battleship nature of these things, if just left as unprotected boxes, the shippers will certainly find that one weak spot. If you go the pallet route, mix some scrap cardbord with the shrinkwrap, and maybe some cardboard corners. > I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them > but from the looks of them, they look like they'll survive anything. Too bad. I have more big wooden crates than the Pope. > They're located near Orlando Florida. I am still very interested. If others that have asked are located anywhere near Providence, New York, Chicago, and all points between, I could possibly act as a distributor. Once the big warehouse project I am in is completed (maybe 2 weeks), I have a Prime and a Stardent to move, but then could possibly pick them up or accept delivery and eventually get them to the new owners (provided they can wait). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Nov 4 10:32:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: MORE AN/UYK-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021104094046.4987edd2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Joe wrote: > I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. Several > people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more requests > than computers. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to decide who gets > one and who doesn't? Or any suggestions about shipping? These are roughly > 24" cube and weigh about 160 pounds. I MAY be able to use a friends > warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with stretch wrap. > I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them but from the looks > of them, they look like they'll survive anything. They're located near > Orlando Florida. > > Joe > > > I think the fairest method is random chance, write names on pieces of paper and pick as many as you have CPUs Of course some people may bail when they find out the shipping costs... Peter Wallace From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Mon Nov 4 10:55:52 2002 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 References: Message-ID: <2254.1036429012@www62.gmx.net> My first PC was a Philips P3200, very heavy, equiped with a 286 processor working at 6MHz (!), a Miniscribe 20MB HDD (5,25 FH) and a big power supply (720W). the 5V cable was screwed with a bolt on the mainboard :) It came with a Princeton - Monitor and an AST-3G EGA card . Unfortunately, I throw it away long time ago :( (but I built out most of the parts). Pierre > I came across a site today which provided more information on this > critter, > and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a > copy > of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ? > > Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what > TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: > http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of > some kind, apparently.. Not sure if this was one of the rebranded > Four/Phase > machines or not, but I wish I had one : ) > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 4 11:33:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow Message-ID: Mike (Kenzie?) asked: >> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? Tony (err... I guess Dr. Duell, unless I get that $%^& Stylewriter working again... :-) ) replied: >Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and doesn't support remote >terminals. Rainbow VENIX was rumored to exist. 1) Anybody know more than that about it? 2) If so, did it support remote terminals? Consoles? UCSD P-system is on ftp.update.uu.se (for anonymous ftp) Same questions as above? - Mark From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 4 11:57:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: info? AN/UYK-44 computer Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021104130256.4e7f4f8c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Along with the additional UYK-20 computers I found some parts of some AN/UYK-44s. I know that they were used similar to the UYK-20s. Does anyone have any detailed info about them? FWIW they also use core memory. I found that they use the Quadri core memory blocks that I was asking about and posted the picture of about two months ago. Picture at: One of the parts that I got was the operator/programmer's console. There's a close up picture of one at: Joe FYI: AN/UYK-44(V) Computer The AN/UYK-44 computer is the standard 16-bit computer installed in U.S. Navy surface, submarine, and ground C4I platforms. The UYK-44 provides computing power for more than 40 different command, control, communications, and weapon systems. Tactical Systems has been under contract to NAVSEASYSCOM since 1980 and has delivered more than 2,500 computers through September 2000, including UYK-44 open-system modules and enhanced processors. From stefan at softhome.net Mon Nov 4 12:28:11 2002 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Some more info on the Philips P3800, and P4500 In-Reply-To: <2254.1036429012@www62.gmx.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104192815.02444290@pop.softhome.net> I'm afraid the P4500 was as dead as could be, some vital parts missing and plugs missing etc. Still, got some nice parts, that I will over here, like a tape unit, 8" floppy drive and a "small" harddisk hehe ;) grtz, Stefan. At 17:56 4-11-2002 +0100, you wrote: >My first PC was a Philips P3200, > very heavy, equiped with a 286 processor working at 6MHz (!), a Miniscribe >20MB HDD (5,25 FH) and a big power supply (720W). the 5V cable was screwed >with a bolt on the mainboard :) >It came with a Princeton - Monitor and an AST-3G EGA card . >Unfortunately, I throw it away long time ago :( (but I built out most of the >parts). > > >Pierre > > > > > > I came across a site today which provided more information on this > > critter, > > and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a > > copy > > of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ? > > > > Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what > > TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800: > > http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of > > some kind, apparently.. Not sure if this was one of the rebranded > > Four/Phase > > machines or not, but I wish I had one : ) > > > > Will J > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > > >-- >+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ >NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 4 12:49:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? > >Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and doesn't support remote > >terminals. It doesn't support the MS-DOS CTTY command? Admittedly, CTTY is an unsatisfactory solution, since it will only work for the OS itself and software that is "well behaved" in following the API guidelines. That means that you can run the OS, and zilch commercial software. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 4 12:57:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Attn: Al Corda Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021104140300.4e7f2580@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Al, I replied to you but the message bounced. Can you contact me directly and send me good address? Thanks, Joe From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 4 13:05:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 Message-ID: <200211041906.LAA06098@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >> I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out >> at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not >> knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that >> they were not in great shape. >> >> After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was >> with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and >> multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!" > >More info about the one I have - looks to be an early model - with nixie >tubes intead of the modern LED voltmeter. Also, the problem with the >display tubes went away when I reseated the display cards in their >sockets. > >After playing with this little guy, I'm suprised at how stable the >components are - when I'm not touching anything, there's basicall NO >jitter on the display. It looks like some component values have >deteoriated or drifted a bit, but seems in nearly excellent shape. I'm >about to go out to RatShack so I can get some more banana plugs and >create some more patch cables (assuming that they still sell those...) Hi The absolute voltages read are not an issue because you are looking for relative changes. Still, the resistors and capacitors on the patch field need to have tight tolerences to get accurate results. > >One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks >at the bottom of the front panel are, and how to use the multipliers? I >can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... The multipliers may be over ranging. These usually only work over a small range of inputs. It might also be that your unit doesn't include the multipliers. Most analog computing functions don't require the nonlinear operation of multipliers and use mostly integrators and adders. Did you look at the page: http://www.comdyna.com/gp6panb.htm#MULT ?? It describes the use of the multiplier. It needs to be used in conjunction with an amplifier and feedback resistor. You might look at the bouncing ball routines for the EC-1. It looks like you should have 8 amplifiers. I think this is enough to do this routine with. I'm not sure if the info for this is on a web page someplace. Dwight > >Thanks for any info > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Nov 4 13:09:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: MORE AN/UYK-20 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021104094046.4987edd2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Joe wrote: > I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. Several people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more requests than computers. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to decide who gets one and who doesn't? Or any suggestions about shipping? These are roughly 24" cube and weigh about 160 pounds. I MAY be able to use a friends warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with stretch wrap. I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them but from the looks of them, they look like they'll survive anything. They're located near Orlando Florida. Make them available FOB your dock. That should winnow the field considerably, and will moot the other questions. Doc From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Nov 4 13:16:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Exorbus, Multibus, Aim-65... FREE! Message-ID: I almost said "Exorbus, Multibus, Aim-65, Oh My!", but I figured most people wouldn't get it :-D To those three intrepid individuals who responded to my last "free stuff" posting (Arcnet/Token Ring stuff), I haven't forgotten you! Give me another day to sort it out... OK, the usual rules, I'll decide semi-randomly who gets what in case multiple people ask for the same thing. I'll take PRIVATE OFF-LIST emails until the end of the week for those who want stuff. Shipping will be from USA, ZIP code 01473. You pay shipping, and I'll take PayPal, Money Order, or check ... Some of this stuff was donated to me by other listmembers (most notably some of the EXORbus stuff, I think from Mike D.??, and the AIM-65 was a trade w/ Rich Cini??). If you gave it to me, and want it back, you get top priority, otherwise it goes to whoever else wants it... The AIM-65 has been tested and works (with some restrictions described below), but the Multibus and EXORbus stuff is completely untested .... AIM-65 - The AIM comes with the external case (not sure if it is original or not), and photocopies of the manuals. The printer is in bad shape, but I also have a spare printer that you can swap out. The keyboard is missing a key (between the "." and right shift), and is a bit flaky (double keypresses, etc.). The ROM sockets are also corroded, and one is in need of replacement. There is a full complement of 2114 RAM chips, and all ROM sockets are full. MULTIBUS - Hybricon prototyping board - Qty. 2 Prototek Wire-Wrapping boards - Nat'l Semi. BLC-064 64K RAM board -- Missing some RAM chips -- Has 27 x MM5290J chips - Intersil MCB 512K Memory Board -- 88 x HM4864-2 chips - Intel 215G Winchester Controller board -- Has PSBX218A and PSBX217C daughterboards EXORBUS - 20-slot backplane and card cage - Qty. 2 bus extender boards - Smoke Signal Broadcasting DCB-4E (floppy Ctrlr? Has FD1791B chip) - Motorola MEX6820-1 (Dual-PIA I/O board) - GMS Single Board Computer GMS6506-01-c -- Has 6809 CPU, ports labeled "I/O", "RS-232", "Printer", "IEEE-488". Also has TMS9914A chip - Southern Company Services SCSEVDG183 -- Video board? Has CRT5027 and CRT8002 chips - Micro-Logus P-VDG SCSEVDG183 -- Similar to above board, but with CRT5037 and CRT8002 chips - Qty. 2 CMS 9609 MPU Rev. A (6809 CPU 2716 ROMs) - Qty. 2 Motorola Micro Module 1A CPU boards (6800 CPU, one has 2708 ROMs) - Qty. 2 Chrislin Industries RAM board -- 32 x 4116 chips, RAM/ROM switch - Hodge, Taylor, and Associates board -- no markings, 3 x AM2909PC chips, 2 x AM2901BDC chips, 8 x 82S2708 ROMs, signed by "W. Hodge" on the back. All chips soldered on, no sockets... - Qty. 2 CMS 9650 Serial I/O board -- 8 x 6850 chips (one has Motorola, one has AMD) - CMS 9640 Timer board - GMS 32K Versatile Memory Board GMS6524-01-B -- Tadiran battery backup, can hold RAM or ROM, currently has 9 2716 ROMs - Unknown manufacturer interface board -- Has 2708 ROM, 2 x 6820 chips, a 40-pin connector and a 50-pin connector. - CMS 9601-501 Utility Buffer/Cable Breakout -- 2 RS-232 ports, not sure which board it is a companion to.... - CMS 9601-503 Cable Breakout Rev. B -- 8 RS-232 ports, probably goes to one of the 9650 boards above... That's it! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Mon Nov 4 13:51:00 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: info? AN/UYK-44 computer Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D66@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Nov 4 13:59:00 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 Message-ID: <3DC6D1BE.63D7C0BC@attbi.com> You wrote: > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks > at the bottom of the front panel are, Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure: "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus. For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW switch control is patched to the OP bus." My take on this is that if you are not controlling the operation mode from a digital computer or other external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW for each integrator in order to control the mode from the front panel buttons. IC = Initial Condition mode HD = Hold mode OP = Operate mode RO = Repetitive Operation mode > and how to use the multipliers? I > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure: "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch networks are needed to electronically program a multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal. When the network is patched as an input to an operational amplifier that has a resistor as the feedback, the amplifier's output is the product of the input variables. When the network is patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier output is the quotient of the two input variables." --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Nov 4 14:46:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 In-Reply-To: <3DC6D1BE.63D7C0BC@attbi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Doug Coward wrote: > You wrote: > > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks > > at the bottom of the front panel are, > > Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure: > "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus. > For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW > switch control is patched to the OP bus." > > My take on this is that if you are not controlling > the operation mode from a digital computer or other > external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW > for each integrator in order to control the mode > from the front panel buttons. > IC = Initial Condition mode > HD = Hold mode > OP = Operate mode > RO = Repetitive Operation mode Ummm, I seem to have an older GP-6 that has no such front-panel switches. It just has the 'Y/POT Select', 'X Select' and 'Compute time' knobs on the front (along with the 8 coefficient pots). There's also four small potentiometers, with a slotted shaft (for using a tweaker screwdriver for adjustment) along the bottom of the front (on the banana jack half) which are unlabelled.... any ideas what they are for? They seem to be missing from the model pictured on COMDYNA's web site. > > and how to use the multipliers? I > > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... I guess you can attribute my lack of understanding this part to my lack of usage of analog computers... sometimes engineers need to be a little more reasonable in their descriptions IMHO. > Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure: > "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as > multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root > extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch > networks are needed to electronically program a > multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the > "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal. Ok, got that > When the network is patched as an input to an > operational amplifier that has a resistor as the > feedback, the amplifier's output is the product > of the input variables. When the network is Does 'the network' refer to the output of the multiplier ( the terminal not labeled 'x' or 'y')? If so, that's what I've been doing... > patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier > output is the quotient of the two input variables." But I just used up the X and Y inputs, how am I supposed to use the multiplier as feedback for the op-amp? It'd be helpful if someone had an example schematic or block diagram of some sort... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Nov 4 15:49:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Two Calc's found at warehouse Message-ID: <00d101c2844c$3bdfaa50$ca000240@oemcomputer> While digging around for some manuals I need I came across these two calculators: HP 28S Advanced Scientific Calculator not tested yet. Casio fx-7700GB Power Graphic with Program-Link. It's missing slide-on cover and needs to be tested. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 4 16:11:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 Message-ID: <200211042213.OAA06155@clulw009.amd.com> Hi My understanding of the multiply is that you connect the gray to the input of one of the amps that show a feedback resistor. The amp inputs are also gray. You leave all the green leads open. If you apply a small level to the x and y, the output of that amp should be the multiply of the x and y. You can use the pots in the center to create the small levels used. Remember that there is also a scale factor involved. K*X*Y= output. I don't know what the K would be for this setup. Dwight >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Doug Coward wrote: > >> You wrote: >> > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks >> > at the bottom of the front panel are, >> >> Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure: >> "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus. >> For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW >> switch control is patched to the OP bus." >> >> My take on this is that if you are not controlling >> the operation mode from a digital computer or other >> external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW >> for each integrator in order to control the mode >> from the front panel buttons. >> IC = Initial Condition mode >> HD = Hold mode >> OP = Operate mode >> RO = Repetitive Operation mode > >Ummm, I seem to have an older GP-6 that has no such front-panel switches. >It just has the 'Y/POT Select', 'X Select' and 'Compute time' knobs on the >front (along with the 8 coefficient pots). There's also four small >potentiometers, with a slotted shaft (for using a tweaker screwdriver for >adjustment) along the bottom of the front (on the banana jack half) >which are unlabelled.... any ideas what they are for? They seem to be >missing from the model pictured on COMDYNA's web site. > >> > and how to use the multipliers? I >> > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... > >I guess you can attribute my lack of understanding this part to my lack of >usage of analog computers... sometimes engineers need to be a little more >reasonable in their descriptions IMHO. > >> Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure: >> "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as >> multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root >> extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch >> networks are needed to electronically program a >> multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the >> "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal. > >Ok, got that > >> When the network is patched as an input to an >> operational amplifier that has a resistor as the >> feedback, the amplifier's output is the product >> of the input variables. When the network is > >Does 'the network' refer to the output of the multiplier ( the terminal >not labeled 'x' or 'y')? If so, that's what I've been doing... > >> patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier >> output is the quotient of the two input variables." > >But I just used up the X and Y inputs, how am I supposed to use the >multiplier as feedback for the op-amp? > >It'd be helpful if someone had an example schematic or block diagram of >some sort... > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 4 16:43:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: Analog computers (was Re: COMDYNA GP-6) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021104224510.13651.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out > at University Salvage.... Slick. My one and only experierience with analog computing was a dedicated device (no patch panel) that calculated energy reserves for the planet. It had an LED counter for the year and numerous dials for amount of driving, heating, electricity usage, etc. Physically, it was about 3" thick and several feet square. I remember trying out a variety of simulations on it when it was at the local science museum, COSI, some summer between 1976 and 1980. I would google for it if I had a keyword. Does this sound like any sort of box anyone has heard of? -ethan P.S. - somewhere on a tape, I have some energy-related apps from a PET 4016 that drive a bank of solid-state switches off the user port to control 110V lights - they had a wall wired up with light bulbs, and the PET app could cycle them in attract mode, or flip them on and off as the app progressed. This comes from the same era, possibly the same summer. I'll probably put it up on my retrocomputing page when I run across that tape again. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 4 17:37:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:40 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 Message-ID: <200211042339.PAA06256@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Pat The link to the lab stuff was old so I did a little looking around and found: http://routh.ee.adfa.edu.au/%7Eirp/Teaching/Control_Theory_2/Labs.html It shows some uses of the GP-6 for analyzing control systems. Dwight >From: "Patrick Finnegan" > >On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Doug Coward wrote: > >> You wrote: >> > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks >> > at the bottom of the front panel are, >> >> Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure: >> "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus. >> For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW >> switch control is patched to the OP bus." >> >> My take on this is that if you are not controlling >> the operation mode from a digital computer or other >> external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW >> for each integrator in order to control the mode >> from the front panel buttons. >> IC = Initial Condition mode >> HD = Hold mode >> OP = Operate mode >> RO = Repetitive Operation mode > >Ummm, I seem to have an older GP-6 that has no such front-panel switches. >It just has the 'Y/POT Select', 'X Select' and 'Compute time' knobs on the >front (along with the 8 coefficient pots). There's also four small >potentiometers, with a slotted shaft (for using a tweaker screwdriver for >adjustment) along the bottom of the front (on the banana jack half) >which are unlabelled.... any ideas what they are for? They seem to be >missing from the model pictured on COMDYNA's web site. > >> > and how to use the multipliers? I >> > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'... > >I guess you can attribute my lack of understanding this part to my lack of >usage of analog computers... sometimes engineers need to be a little more >reasonable in their descriptions IMHO. > >> Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure: >> "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as >> multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root >> extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch >> networks are needed to electronically program a >> multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the >> "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal. > >Ok, got that > >> When the network is patched as an input to an >> operational amplifier that has a resistor as the >> feedback, the amplifier's output is the product >> of the input variables. When the network is > >Does 'the network' refer to the output of the multiplier ( the terminal >not labeled 'x' or 'y')? If so, that's what I've been doing... > >> patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier >> output is the quotient of the two input variables." > >But I just used up the X and Y inputs, how am I supposed to use the >multiplier as feedback for the op-amp? > >It'd be helpful if someone had an example schematic or block diagram of >some sort... > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 4 18:53:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: OT perhaps? Old vs New Internet (was Re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211040339.WAA19440@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Nov 3, 2 10:39:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021104/68754a96/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 4 18:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 4, 2 11:34:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021104/3e19d336/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 4 19:04:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Nov 4, 2 10:50:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021104/28ccbb98/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 4 19:11:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Terminal expansion (was: vt-240 In-Reply-To: <200211010453.gA14rxb26352@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > My VT100 has what seems to be an add-in board that has RGB BNCs. I know > > so little about them that I don't even know whether those are intended to > > be input or output. > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'd recommend you both point your browsers at http://www.vt100.net/ as it > has VT100 manuals and a couple of VT240 pocket guides. Thank you! That is a great resource. Unfortunately, it does not appear to have any mention of the expansion board, nor even of the tilt/swivel base that mine has. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Nov 4 19:20:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll get a bang out of this one--quite literally: -> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States -> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems -> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a -> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple -> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in -> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as -> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in -> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte. The -> electrolyte, which is a locally produced knock-off of the Japanese -> P-50 type water-based system, was produced without the proper -> additives required to stave off excess hydrogen gassing. Consequently, -> aluminum capacitors produced with the P-50 knock-off tend to fail -> catastrophically, by blowing open the rubber seal and leaking liquid -> electrolyte on the printed circuit board. These failures reportedly -> occur at half the rated lifetime of the components. http://www.ttiinc.com/MarketEye/zogbi_on_passives_20021014.asp ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the old caps? -brian. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Nov 4 19:36:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 In-Reply-To: <014d01c282a4$7a9c3460$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021104203432.01382178@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:17 PM 11/2/02 -0600, Jay wrote: >The layered products all require codewords. Yes. Although for a while HP shipped y2k kits which included a CD with unlocked layered products. The letter included with it explicitly stated that you could install them only if you owned a license for the layered product. >For all the media that *I* have, including the layered products I mentioned, >this is not an issue. Special Case. carlos -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 4 19:41:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021105014100.16030.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I > though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll > get a bang out of this one--quite literally: > > -> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States > -> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems > -> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan... I have seen a couple of motherboards that were probably victims of this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.). The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of them obviously didn't matter as to the exact capacitance (decoupling caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did matter. Interesting to learn of a cause some months later, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 4 19:47:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. Message-ID: <200211050146.RAA06367@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Brian Chase" > >Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I >though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll >get a bang out of this one--quite literally: > >-> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States >-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems >-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a >-> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple >-> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in >-> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as >-> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in >-> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte. The >-> electrolyte, which is a locally produced knock-off of the Japanese >-> P-50 type water-based system, was produced without the proper >-> additives required to stave off excess hydrogen gassing. Consequently, >-> aluminum capacitors produced with the P-50 knock-off tend to fail >-> catastrophically, by blowing open the rubber seal and leaking liquid >-> electrolyte on the printed circuit board. These failures reportedly >-> occur at half the rated lifetime of the components. > >http://www.ttiinc.com/MarketEye/zogbi_on_passives_20021014.asp > >ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor >types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are >coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the >old caps? > >-brian. > > Hi Brian Not counting defective caps, they can last a long time. I have an old radio that the electrolytics are still in reasonable condition and the radio was made in the 50's. I have others that are only 20 years old and have failed. Switchers put a higher load on the filter capacitors because of their instantaneous and rapid demands. These are the most likely applications for low ESR's. One should check the burst seal and make sure it hasn't already blown or is bulging. Electrolytics that have been sitting for several years should be brought up slowly to reform the surfaces. The best way to do this is to disconnect and put on a power supply with a high value current limiting resistor. Many large computer grade capacitors may have normal leakage in the ma range so choose the resistor accordingly. Small capacitors in the tens of uF should have microampere leakage. Dwight From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Nov 4 19:53:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Anyone need 486 motherboards? In-Reply-To: <3DBE9182.10509@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20021105015449.EKRV13155.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Bob Shannon > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Anyone need 486 motherboards? > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:47:46 -0500 > Hmmm, are you sure about this? > > A 'real' DX-50 will clean the clock of a DX2-66, due to the true 50 Mhz bus. > > If your seeing a DX2-66 beat a DX-50, then the DX-50 is not being run at > full (local bus) speed. > > I've got a (large) pile of NEC EISA servers that take plug-in CPU cards, > so its easy to swap between > the DX2-66 and DX-50 while keeping the same BIOS and chipset. The DX-50 > is clearly faster. > > (I'd love to not have this pile of servers, NEC PowerMate Express A7x's, > in both desktop and tower chassis) > > > Tothwolf wrote: In a pinch, Take a few AMD 486DX 40 CPUs and overclock them to 50 with active cooling to find one or two that works 100%. They did take that well. I had one like that. and real 50MHz was a real treat too. Cheers, Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 4 20:02:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > >> If I connect a VT-100 to COMM can I still access the CPU's? > > > >Alas not. It's an MS-DOS and CP/M machine, and doesn't support remote > > > >terminals. > > It doesn't support the MS-DOS CTTY command? On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I am not sure... It may well do. > > But you'd have to issue the CTTY command from the standad console (here > the LK201/VR201). So if you don't have the standard keyboard, it's not > going to be a lot of use. The way to handle that is to put the CTTY command into AUTOEXEC.BAT [and YES, I can put stuff into AUTOEXEC.BAT of a Rainbow diskette without first having a Rainbow keyboard, (or even machine)] But too much software bypasses the OS for I/O, so it is admittedly NOT an "acceptable" solution. I gave up early on with trying to use it on PCs. Even on the Micromint MPX16, which was designed for a serial terminal, virtually every user eventually bough the accessory add-in board for use with a PC keyboard and video board. > I must admit I generally run CP/M on my 'Bow, and I don't think that does > have any equivalent to CTTY. A much preferable way to use it. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 4 20:11:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Two Calc's found at warehouse In-Reply-To: <00d101c2844c$3bdfaa50$ca000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021104211407.6a97fa1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:50 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote: >While digging around for some manuals I need I came across these two >calculators: > >HP 28S Advanced Scientific Calculator not tested yet. Just make sure that you don't install 12 volt batteries in it! You'd be surprised how many people do that and then don't understand why it can't be fixed! (Three batteries in series and the batteries connect directly to the CPU, no fuses, no regulators. You can guess the rest!) Joe > >Casio fx-7700GB Power Graphic with Program-Link. It's missing slide-on cover >and needs to be tested. > > From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 4 20:44:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DECUS Message-ID: <3DC6DB4F.18413.2CACC9E2@localhost> In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 4 20:48:10 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc Message-ID: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from Xerox's 'Small-Talk". They were a major corporation and Apple was quick enough to disembowel DRI's GEM altho Sam's Atari ST still continued to use an updated version of the original. MS has also litigated any threat to their bullying dominance and despite the protestations of the C-64 fans GEOS (any coincidence there) is obviously a clone of the GEM desktop. The mouse was also developed at Palo Alto. I have trouble simply accepting that a major corporation like XEROX was simply a stupid wimp. From all evidence I've seen Xerox invented the GUI. Something more important than CP/M, MSDOS, or UNIX. What am I missing here. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 4 20:52:20 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Vax, PDP11 vs Rainbow popularity in 89 Message-ID: <3DC6DB50.28841.2CACCA10@localhost> Continuing my facinating(to me) perusal of the FIDO archive some stats: Date: 12-24-89 To: ALL Subject: DEC ECHO STATS From: GEORGE DAHLCO, SYSOP 102/ Here's a recent report from Southern California: QMStat EchoMail traffic report for 1:102/138, 12/24/1989 21:30:45 DEC ECHO CONFERENCES for Period: 12/01/1989 to 12/24/1989 AREA NAME TOTAL AVERAGE DUPES MAX/DAY MIN/DAY ------------------ ----- ----- ----- ----- -- VAX 161 7 0 22 1 RAINBOW 190 8 0 29 5 PDP-11 22 0 0 6 1 Happy New Year, George, 102/138- --- msged 1.999 * Origin: Western Region VAX EC, RAINBOW/PDP-11 Echo Hub (1:102/138.1) ------------------------------ My,times do change. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 4 20:56:29 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: MSDOS board for DecMate II Message-ID: <3DC6DB50.30990.2CACCA3C@localhost> Continuing my perusal of the FIDO archive I found a reference to a MSDOS board supplied for the DecMate II by DEC " xpu board (pc27x-ah) with 256k for _only_$1285.00 " even tho the DecMate had been discontinued. At the same time "The PC27XAH board was advertised in Newman's October catalog for $195." Supports my contention that most of the companies beloved by us enthusiasts were rapacious. Poor Bill Gates and other companies being destroyed by home users piracy. Pfaw !! Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Nov 4 21:01:01 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > -> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States > -> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems > -> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a > -> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple > -> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in > -> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as This has impacted things other than commodity PC equiment. www.dsm.org (dedicated diamond star motors vehicles) has/d a section on do it yourself replacement of capacitors on the engine control computer of the Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse/Plymouth Laser twins. Appears to be essentially the same problem. -- From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 4 21:05:10 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Mobile computing Message-ID: <3DC6DB4F.7626.2CACC9AB@localhost> In going thru an old FIDO DEC Rainbow archive I ran across this post. It seems all the present fuss about the wonders of mobile computing is not so new. Lawrence ......................................................................................................... Date: 12-12-89 (09:11) To: FRANK MALLORY Subject: RE: CELLULAR CONNECTION From: RON KRITZMAN Part of the problem with cellular modem connection is that most telephone modems aren't particularly noise resistant. The modems ($$$$$$$) made for cellular incluse their own error correction, but most are proprietary. There is a company in Skokie, IL called "Tellular" which makes a standard RJ-11 interface for cellular phones. Basicly it plugs in in place of the handset and gives you a standard modular jack. Plug a phone in there and pick it up... you hear dial tone. Dial, and it decodes the touch tones and makes them into what the cellular unit wants to see. Instant fake "real" phone. Great for stuff like portable pay phones, etc. (No, I don't work for them.) As to the portable (hand held) with an "RJ" its proably a ways off. Most cellular portables are already "ten lbs. of s*** it a 5 lb. bag" as it is. --- * Origin: Chicago's BIT WIZ Opus HST (AlterNet 445/689) (Opus 1:115/689) lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ccraft at springsips.com Mon Nov 4 21:09:19 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: MORE AN/UYK-20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021105024714.59E03610A4@mamacass.springsips.com> I am still interested, though it sounds like it'll cost me $100 < x < $175 to ship, (got a quote today for shipping on a 220lb printer from Chicago to Steamboat Springs...) provided that Fortune smiles upon me. Regards, Chris Craft On Monday 04 November 2002 08:40, William Donzelli wrote: > > I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. > > Several people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more > > requests than computers. > > Dice. > > > I MAY be able to use a > > friends warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with > > stretch wrap. > > This is probably the only real option. Even with the battleship nature of > these things, if just left as unprotected boxes, the shippers will > certainly find that one weak spot. If you go the pallet route, mix some > scrap cardbord with the shrinkwrap, and maybe some cardboard corners. > > > I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them > > but from the looks of them, they look like they'll survive anything. > > Too bad. I have more big wooden crates than the Pope. > > > They're located near Orlando Florida. > > I am still very interested. If others that have asked are located > anywhere near Providence, New York, Chicago, and all points between, I > could possibly act as a distributor. Once the big warehouse project I am > in is completed (maybe 2 weeks), I have a Prime and a Stardent to move, > but then could possibly pick them up or accept delivery and eventually > get them to the new owners (provided they can wait). > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Nov 4 21:50:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <3DC74059.1030401@eoni.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued > Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Nov 4 21:56:04 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. References: <20021105014100.16030.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DC742AE.5010804@charter.net> I work at a VAR that assembles our own white box clones. We have had a failure rate of almost 15% of Shuttle AV11 motherboards. Every example has popped or leaking caps. These boards were installed in late 2000 and the first half of 2001. The first symptom is random and repeated reboots. We had switched to AOpen motherboards at the beginning of this year and have had no other failures. However, we have around 500 of the AV11's out in the field. AV22 and AV18 Shuttle's don't appear to have problems. Ethan Dicks wrote: >I have seen a couple of motherboards that were probably victims of >this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local >video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps >on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of >damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no >odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.). > >The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth >the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of >them obviously didn't matter as to the exact capacitance (decoupling >caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did >matter. > >Interesting to learn of a cause some months later, though. > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now >http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Nov 4 22:02:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: <20021105014100.16030.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021105040435.94119.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> The article I read on this subject was fairly alarming - the way business works these days, most of the capacitor electrolyte came from one company that supplied many different cap manufacturers in Taiwan, good, bad and indifferent. This may affect a lot more than PC's. Like, every piece of electronics made recently in the Far East with a switching power supply. --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Brian Chase wrote: > > Someone passed this along to me today. It's a > current news item, but I > > though it at least tangentially relevant to > classiccmp folks. You'll > > get a bang out of this one--quite literally: > > > > -> In September 2002, reports started to surface > in the United States > > -> among brand name computer manufacturers that > there were problems > > -> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in > Taiwan... > > I have seen a couple of motherboards that were > probably victims of > this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX > boxen from a local > video store that flirted with being a gamer center. > 80% of the caps > on the motherboard had popped. There were no other > obvious signs of > damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage > problem (no > odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.). > > The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it > wasn't worth > the effort to secure replacement caps at retail > prices. Some of > them obviously didn't matter as to the exact > capacitance (decoupling > caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator > area, probably did > matter. > > Interesting to learn of a cause some months later, > though. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Nov 4 22:56:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: "The concept of a point and grunt pictorial user interface is so obvious and inevitable that it is surely not patentable. After all, isn't pointing at the pictures and grunting how you order food in a foreign restaurant?" - anon at Xerox Parc Xerox developed many things for which they never asserted ownership. Thus, they fumbled the future, or at least intellectual property control. OTOH, both MICROS~1 and even Apple were enthusiastic about claiming ownership "we stole it from the indians first!" On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued > Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from > Xerox's 'Small-Talk". They were a major corporation and Apple was quick > enough to disembowel DRI's GEM altho Sam's Atari ST still continued to use > an updated version of the original. MS has also litigated any threat to their > bullying dominance and despite the protestations of the C-64 fans GEOS > (any coincidence there) is obviously a clone of the GEM desktop. The mouse > was also developed at Palo Alto. I have trouble simply accepting that a major > corporation like XEROX was simply a stupid wimp. From all evidence I've > seen Xerox invented the GUI. Something more important than CP/M, > MSDOS, or UNIX. What am I missing here. > > Lawrence > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 4 23:45:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc Message-ID: > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued >Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 5 00:01:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021105060338.91870.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > Seriously, though... yeah, one must be careful when playing with > this stuff.. although I never got electrocuted (yet..), I did once > almost get splattered by a PDP-11/34a in its rack, with the rack > tilting over backwards (where I was...) When I was a teenager, I dragged an empty H960 rack upstairs, by myself, by standing in it (through the hole in the bottom) and hoisting it up one stair at a time and repositioning my feet. Nearly ended up at the bottom of the stairs twice. I learned my lesson after that... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From hansp at aconit.org Tue Nov 5 00:15:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DECUS References: <3DC6DB4F.18413.2CACC9E2@localhost> Message-ID: <3DC76260.5000002@aconit.org> Lawrence Walker wrote: > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? I don't think it's all there but Tim Shoppa at http://www.trailing-edge.com/ is a good place to start. -- hbp From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Nov 5 00:57:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DECUS In-Reply-To: <3DC6DB4F.18413.2CACC9E2@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021104230150.02d93230@mail.zipcon.net> Would that have been from Gary Stebbins, on Glacier Peak Rainbow? FidoNet- 1:343:3 At 08:40 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop >saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does >anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > >Lawrence >lgwalker@mts.net >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 5 08:19:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: DECUS References: <3DC6DB4F.18413.2CACC9E2@localhost> Message-ID: <046101c284d6$9bf09be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> DECUS is here.... http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/ Note that the URL is case sensitive... look in each of the "freeware" directories under the OS Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:40 PM Subject: DECUS > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > > Lawrence > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 08:25:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Test - Ignore Message-ID: <3DC7D58F.373719B3@comcast.net> Test - Ignore -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 5 08:34:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: hp-ux 10.20 References: <3.0.2.32.20021104203432.01382178@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <046d01c284d8$b28ecaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Yes. Although for a while HP shipped y2k kits which included > a CD with unlocked layered products. The letter included with > it explicitly stated that you could install them only if you > owned a license for the layered product. The set I have was not part of the y2k deal... they're just... well.. special case ;) --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 08:43:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Performa question References: Message-ID: <3DC7DABB.B1BCF7CA@comcast.net> chris wrote: > I have 4 or 5 of the Performa 550 in my garage, and I would love to have > a copy of the restore CD for it. > > let me know... thanks > > -chris > Chris --- You're not thinking of the LC 550, like what you gave me, are you? Or can those use the Performa 550 CD? If so, I could use a CD mailed to me also... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 08:49:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <001701c282b7$e1a35900$9490c0d8@laptop> Message-ID: <3DC7DC15.11F2BAB0@comcast.net> Robert Wittig wrote: > > > I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences > > used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same > > problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this, > > but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've > > avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at > > this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-) > > That was my text, being back-quoted by John, that had the weird escape codes. Is > the problem something that is being generated by John's backquote, or am I the > culprit? > > I am also using OE 5, and it should not be creating such a problem. I do a lot > of posting on tech lists and NG's, where any deviation from plain ASCII rates an > immediate flame, and to date, no-one has ever mentioned a problem. I also use > pine and Netscrape on my *nix boxes, and have Calypso set up on this box, and > have never seen anything like this before. > > OE 5 has several choices for indent on replies... I am using '> '. If John is > using ': ' or '| ', (the other 2 choices), they might be getting read as > something else by your MUA, and changing the indent might eliminate the problem. > What MUA's are you guys running? > I think it's something with John's mailer. I read the message on Outlook 2000 and Netscape 4.7, and I think Pine too, and they all showed the weird stuff... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Tue Nov 5 09:44:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Performa question Message-ID: >Chris --- > You're not thinking of the LC 550, like what you gave me, are you? Or >can those use the Performa 550 CD? If so, I could use a CD mailed to me >also... Ok, actually yes, I was thinking of the LC 550, but they are the same machine, minus the fact that the LC didn't come bundled with the software. However, since my goal is to save myself some time and effort in blanking the LC 550's and reinstalling an OS and an early version of ClarisWorks, the Performa restore CD is exactly what I needed to make my life easy. I got my CD in the mail yesterday. I'll run a dupe for you and mail it up to yo. I would stick it with the stack of stuff I have for you, but we both know that means you'll never actually GET the thing... at least not in this lifetime. :-) -chris From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 5 09:48:46 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: OT: Best programming suite recommendations. References: <001701c282b7$e1a35900$9490c0d8@laptop> <3DC7DC15.11F2BAB0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <015501c284e2$7255dbe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I think it's something with John's mailer. I read the > message on Outlook 2000 and Netscape 4.7, and I think > Pine too, and they all showed the weird stuff... FWIW, here are three example UTF7 escape sequences. + A C Q - = $ + A D 0 - = = + A F 8 - = _ If I mistakenly send another UTF message, anybody, just ask and I'll fix it. John A. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Nov 5 10:00:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: TDSystems VIK-UDT ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C51C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hey all, Is anyone familiar with the TDSystems "viking" series of UNIBUS SCSI controllers? I have a VIK-1055, or so it seems, and could use some info on it :) Cheers, Fred From arlen at acm.org Tue Nov 5 11:40:01 2002 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: COMDYNA GP-6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/11/02 3:02 PM, Patrick Finnegan at pat@purdueriots.com wrote: >> I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out >> at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not >> knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that >> they were not in great shape. >> >> After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was >> with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and >> multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!" > > More info about the one I have - looks to be an early model - with nixie > tubes intead of the modern LED voltmeter. I have two of these I would consider selling to fellow list-members (or trade for a Processor Technology SOL :) :) Mine have the more modern displays, not nixies. Nice, beautifully built analog computers. Contact me off-list. Regards, Arlen -- Arlen Michaels arlen@acm.org From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 11:50:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Performa question References: Message-ID: <3DC80677.8E7DC6EB@comcast.net> chris wrote: > > >Chris --- > > You're not thinking of the LC 550, like what you gave me, are you? Or > >can those use the Performa 550 CD? If so, I could use a CD mailed to me > >also... > > Ok, actually yes, I was thinking of the LC 550, but they are the same > machine, minus the fact that the LC didn't come bundled with the software. Cool... Good to know... > I got my CD in the mail yesterday. I'll run a dupe for you and mail it up > to yo. I would stick it with the stack of stuff I have for you, but we > both know that means you'll never actually GET the thing... at least not > in this lifetime. :-) No comment, ya snail... :) -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From arlen at acm.org Tue Nov 5 12:04:00 2002 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 5/11/02 12:47 AM, chris at cb@mythtech.net wrote: >> Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued >> Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI The famous Jobs demo (two demos, actually) is described in some detail in Michael Hiltzik's 1999 book, "Dealers of Lightning: Xerox Parc and the dawn of the computer age." Hiltzik says that in return for letting Apple tour Parc, Xerox was allowed to buy 100,000 private shares of Apple (then worth $1.05 million). Also, during this brief "alliance" Apple apparently generously disclosed to Xerox their still-secret plan to bring out the Lisa. Relations must also have been complicated by the fact that a number of Xerox people (like Larry Tesler) later left Xerox to work at Apple. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels arlen@acm.org From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Nov 5 13:03:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Nov 2002 20:40:48 CST." <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <200211050906.JAA04996@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Lawrence Walker" said: > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued > Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from > Xerox's 'Small-Talk". IIRC they tried to but the statute of limitations had run out...leading someone (Guy Kawasaki??) to say "Xerox can't even sue you on time." :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Nov 5 13:07:59 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:22:44 PST." Message-ID: <200211050902.JAA04954@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Brian Chase said: > Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I > though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll > get a bang out of this one--quite literally: > > -> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States > -> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems > -> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a > -> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple > -> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in > -> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as > -> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in > -> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte. [snip] > > ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor > types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are > coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the > old caps? This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my brother is one). Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only 5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still in good order... Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them all. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Nov 5 13:16:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Analog computers (was Re: COMDYNA GP-6) Message-ID: Ethan Dicks reminisced: >My one and only experierience with analog computing was a dedicated >device (no patch panel) that calculated energy reserves for the >planet. It had an LED counter for the year and numerous dials for >amount of driving, heating, electricity usage, etc. Physically, I remember this! Someone brought it to our high school, circa 1979 or 1980. It was designed to crater the planet within a limited time span, assuming limited resources of fossil fuels would eventually expire. (Well, it had to end eventually...). Everyone in the class played with it for a while, with 5 input consoles active at a time (so one sector might be using fossil fuels at a horrendous rate while another was relying on nuclear...). Then me and 4 of my friends took over at the end of the class (fortunately also the end of the day), and coordinated our actions completely. We all slammed tech research to the max immediately, max'd out solar, and started carefully playing nuclear to maintain the environment at a bad but not disastrous level while we minimized the use of fossil fuels. We lasted about 5 times longer than anyone else had. Yeah, if you find a url, post it! I'd like to see that booger again. - Mark From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 5 13:54:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:41 2005 Subject: Free ASR32, needs TLC Message-ID: I have a ratty old ASR32 Baudot Telex machine (with rotary dial - too quaint) that I would like to move out. It needs a bunch of TLC... and someone I know wants the copyholder and pedestal, so those are spoken for. Otherwise I'm going to part it out and junk the carcass. I would sorta like to get my initial investment of $25 back, but the bottom line is it's free for price of pack/ship from zip 95971 in NE Ca. OR - you pick up, and I help load it in/on your vehicle - no charge. Speak now or the machine dies.... Cheers John From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Nov 5 14:07:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: <200211050902.JAA04954@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my brother is one). > Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've > had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only > 5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still > in good order... > Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them > all. I would not fret too much about these bum capacitors - in a few years they will pretty much be out of the market and into the trash. Since the dawn of (electronics) time, there have been infestations of poorly made, sometimes counterfeit electronics parts, that foul up the industry for awhile. Nothing changes. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 5 14:31:27 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! Message-ID: John Honniball wrote: >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to >VCF-Europe... > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > >Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? Although I live in the USA these days, I might just be prepared to come back and drag out some of the Corestore machines for such an event, they're mostly in storage in the UK still... pdp-15 anybody? Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 5 14:35:49 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! Message-ID: John Honniball wrote: >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to >VCF-Europe... > > > > The question is: would you come to VCF UK? > >Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else? Although I live in the USA these days, I might just be prepared to come back and drag out some of the Corestore machines for such an event, they're mostly in storage in the UK still... pdp-15 anybody? Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 5 14:40:02 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype Message-ID: Sellam Ismail wrote: >The locations I am considering for VCF East 2.0 are Providence, RI, Boston >proper, or New York City. Basically, somewhere with a large >population >center, that is central to a greater population center, and >where a lot of >vintage computer enthusiasts would easily find their >way to. Any of the above would suit me. I would bring Big Iron. I would sign up for yer list, but vintage.org seems to have gone AWOL for now... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 5 14:49:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: DECUS In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021104230150.02d93230@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3DC6DB4F.18413.2CACC9E2@localhost> Message-ID: <3DC7D9A0.9460.308E5B52@localhost> Yep. And interestingly enough a lot of your messages to the group were also archived there. I originally got the archived FIDO msgs from the Swedish Rainbow archives. Oct 89 to Feb 91. Don't know if they're still there. Do you still have contact with any of that group or know what might have happened to the files from Glacier Peak Rainbow, Silver Bullet, or Pot of Gold BBS's ? Lawrence > Would that have been from Gary Stebbins, on Glacier Peak Rainbow? FidoNet- > 1:343:3 > > At 08:40 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > >saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > >anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > > > >Lawrence > >lgwalker@mts.net > >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 5 14:53:23 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: DECUS In-Reply-To: <046101c284d6$9bf09be0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3DC7D9A0.15448.308E5B89@localhost> Good stuff. I had glanced thru it before but figured it was all mini stuff. Lawrence > DECUS is here.... http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/ > > Note that the URL is case sensitive... look in each of the "freeware" > directories under the OS > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:40 PM > Subject: DECUS > > > > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > > saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > > anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > > > > Lawrence > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From mross666 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 5 15:00:03 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: ICL TeamServer Message-ID: OK I know it's too damned recent to be 'classic' but no bugger anywhere else seems to have any idea about it... I have recently got hold of an ICL Sparc Teamserver aka The Purple Peril ( http://www.corestore.org/ts.jpg ) If anyone has ever run one of these, or has a clue how the console is supposed to work, please contact me off-list... it appears to boot but is giving me all kinds of grief... Thanks Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 5 15:06:00 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Terminal expansion (was: vt-240 References: Message-ID: <3DC83170.B09D25C4@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > My VT100 has what seems to be an add-in board that has RGB BNCs. > > > I know so little about them that I don't even know whether those > > > are intended to be input or output. > > > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I'd recommend you both point your browsers at http://www.vt100.net/ > > as it has VT100 manuals and a couple of VT240 pocket guides. > > Thank you! > That is a great resource. Unfortunately, it does not appear to have > any mention of the expansion board, nor even of the tilt/swivel base > that mine has. It sounds as if you've got a VT100 with the VT1XX-CB graphics kit, which converts it to full VT125 capability, including composite and RGB video out, and video in connectors. The tilt and swivel base is VT1XX-SA -- I've never seen this! These factoids are from Chapter 5 of the Terminals & Printers Handbook 1983: http://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter5.html Unfortunately, the second edition of the VT100 Technical Manual doesn't cover the VT125, because it wasn't available until a year later. I think the only VT125-specific manual I have is the Reference Card, but you can try playing with ReGIS by using the VT240 Series Programmer Pocket Guide, or the VT330 Graphics Programming manual. I have just been sent the original DEC technical report on ReGIS, which I'm very excited about. I'll put it online as soon as possible. As for Emanuel's question about the VT240 expansion capability, I have no idea, but I'm certainly going to have a dig around inside mine this weekend! - Paul From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 5 15:15:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel Printer Equivalent? In-Reply-To: <20021023035644.25784.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <20021023035644.25784.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: >I've got a brand new AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel printer, that doesn't have >a daisy wheel. A quick glance at Google doesn't turn up anyone who >sells apropos wheels. There is a theory that the 458 is a rebadged >Qume. Does anyone know where to get 458 wheels, or what would be an >equivalent printer that I could find wheels for? >Ken Look in one of those BIG office supply catalogs and see if you can figure out the daisy wheel cross reference thing backwards. I have a modest sized box of ribbons etc, that I "plan" to dump on some large flat surface and put an image of on my web site junk list. From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 5 15:27:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: 8 pieces of Rams!! Message-ID: <3DC83849.1050108@internet1.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2066966177 It may just be a typing error, but still funny :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Nov 5 15:35:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr@zipcon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: DECUS References: <3DC7D9A0.9460.308E5B52@localhost> Message-ID: <3dc83a36c8eeb8.79280726@zipcon.net> the files were given to Jim laferrier(sp) IIRC when Gary pulled the plug on glacier peak rainbow. our local dec group d:Bug (Dec Bellevue users Group) kinda foundered when one of the main people passed away :( Do you have a link to the archives? > Yep. And interestingly enough a lot of your messages to the group were > also archived there. I originally got the archived FIDO msgs from the Swedish > Rainbow archives. Oct 89 to Feb 91. Don't know if they're still there. Do you > still have contact with any of that group or know what might have happened > to the files from Glacier Peak Rainbow, Silver Bullet, or Pot of Gold BBS's ? > > Lawrence > > > Would that have been from Gary Stebbins, on Glacier Peak Rainbow? FidoNet- > > 1:343:3 > > > > At 08:40 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > > > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > > >saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > > >anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > > > > > >Lawrence > > >lgwalker@mts.net > > >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Nov 5 15:41:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: 8 pieces of Rams!! Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C523@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> And nevermind the RF35 being SCSI. Buttah, seriously... $500 for an 4100????? --f From emu at ecubics.com Tue Nov 5 15:47:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Terminal expansion (was: vt-240 References: <3DC83170.B09D25C4@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <3DC83C43.40200@ecubics.com> Paul Williams wrote: > As for Emanuel's question about the VT240 expansion capability, I have > no idea, but I'm certainly going to have a dig around inside mine this > weekend! It is a modem card. There is a picture of it in the vt240 pocket service guide. cheers From fernande at internet1.net Tue Nov 5 16:06:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: 8 pieces of Rams!! References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C523@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3DC84160.2070302@internet1.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > And nevermind the RF35 being SCSI. > > Buttah, seriously... $500 for an 4100????? > > --f Hmm, I thought that the HDs in the desktop vax's were SCSI, but RF would be DSSI. RZ would be scsi, right? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dittman at dittman.net Tue Nov 5 16:21:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: 8 pieces of Rams!! In-Reply-To: from "Chad Fernandez" at Nov 05, 2002 05:08:32 PM Message-ID: <200211052217.gA5MH4KD007288@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Hmm, I thought that the HDs in the desktop vax's were SCSI, but RF would > be DSSI. RZ would be scsi, right? Yes. RZ is SCSI, RF is DSSI. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Nov 5 16:27:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: 8 pieces of Rams!! Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C525@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > Hmm, I thought that the HDs in the desktop vax's were SCSI, > but RF would be DSSI. RZ would be scsi, right? 410x's and 410xA's can do both SCSI (RZ) and DSSI (RF), yes. --f From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 5 16:38:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: DECUS In-Reply-To: <3dc83a36c8eeb8.79280726@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3DC7F321.20362.30F1FD56@localhost> It's a great FTP site. Has a lot of DEC files; Rainbow, Professional, DecMate, PDP8, PDP11 and other folders. The Rainbow Fido ones are in the rainbow/docs folder. Have you by any chance any contact with Jim Laferrier or any other of the old sysops ? Lawrence > the files were given to Jim laferrier(sp) IIRC when Gary pulled the plug on > glacier peak rainbow. our local dec group d:Bug (Dec Bellevue users Group) > kinda foundered when one of the main people passed away :( > > Do you have a link to the archives? > > > Yep. And interestingly enough a lot of your messages to the group were > > also archived there. I originally got the archived FIDO msgs from the Swedish > > Rainbow archives. Oct 89 to Feb 91. Don't know if they're still there. Do you > > still have contact with any of that group or know what might have happened to > > the files from Glacier Peak Rainbow, Silver Bullet, or Pot of Gold BBS's ? > > > > Lawrence > > > > > Would that have been from Gary Stebbins, on Glacier Peak Rainbow? FidoNet- > > > 1:343:3 > > > > > > At 08:40 PM 11/4/02 -0600, you wrote: > > > > In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop > > > >saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does > > > >anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ? > > > > > > > >Lawrence > > > >lgwalker@mts.net > > > >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 5 18:36:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: <200211050902.JAA04954@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Your message of "Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:22:44 PST." Message-ID: <20021106003825.GPBQ5393.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Faulty capacitors. > From: Stan Barr > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:02:14 +0000 > Hi, > > Brian Chase said: > This is a well known problem among TV repairmen (my brother is one). > Early failure of electroytics is becoming increasingly common. I've > had to replace about half of them in my vcr power supply and it's only > 5 years old! OTOH I'm using a 40-year old radio where they are still > in good order... > Early tantalums are another problem area. If one goes, replace them > all. Count me in, newly minted tv repairman and already have to replace so many caps. Usually that vertical retrace cap. Otherwise any caps that had water broiled out (baked) from crowded hot sources. But especially in CTC169 (RCA), two small ones next to SMPS IC MUST be replaced no matter otherwise fly or HV divider fry because of B+ overvolting as well as diode. Inexpensive insurance. Then few remaining is simply bad quality, like leakers and load of dud mitsubishi pip modules. Easy fix, remove & bypass with two caps. Most people don't use pip or can stand losing it for less cost. Mitsubishi sets are one of good ones. Years ago, I did four recapping Asus P2L97 boards same kind of both burst tops and popped rubber plug. Cheers, Wizard > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Nov 5 19:06:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype Message-ID: <200211060108.UAA75551586@shell.TheWorld.com> Since today is a voting day, my votes are for (1) Providence (2) Boston Because of some personal bad experiences with New York, I would have to vote against it. Anywhere down to Connecticut and I would attend and exhibit. After New York, down to NJ I would attempt to attend, but would probably not be able to exhibit. Megan From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 5 19:13:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Looking for specs and or app notes Message-ID: <200211060108.RAA06991@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for data sheets or app notes for the TMS9914 GPIB Controller? If anyone has any of this stuff, let me know? Thanks Dwight From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Nov 5 20:00:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: Looking for specs and or app notes Message-ID: If you can't find anything else, the NatInst doc on the NAT9914 might be helpful: http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/320775.pdf The NatInst website says the NAT9914 is 100% register and pin compatible with the TMS9914A in its default power up 9914 mode, so there should be some info in the NAT9914 doc that also applies to the TMS9914A. >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Looking for specs and or app notes >Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:08:51 -0800 (PST) > >Hi > I'm looking for data sheets or app notes for >the TMS9914 GPIB Controller? If anyone has >any of this stuff, let me know? >Thanks >Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 5 20:56:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:42 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0... In-Reply-To: <200211020453.XAA70625304@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Megan wrote: > It would help if www.vintage.org would respond... I've not been > able to connect for quite some time... I've tried each time I've > seen your message and I get nothing... The damn network admin at the ACCRC (who hosts my DNS) royally fucked things up. My web server server address seems to be working now but my mail DNS is stil hosed. I'd call him an incompetent jackass but he's a good friend of mine and he's doing all this for free (and he's actually quite competent ;) I hope this message gets through at least. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 5 21:20:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Two Calc's found at warehouse In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021104211407.6a97fa1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Nov 4, 2 09:14:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 813 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021105/362788eb/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 5 21:23:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > More seriously, I've recently endured an HPCC conference. A couple of > people involved with that were people I don't really get on with. Now, I > _didn't_ cause a public flamefest (and nor did I intend to), but I did > find the whole thing stressful, and not particularly enjoyable. > > I would not want to get involved with a VCF if that was going to be the > result..... Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and adult and get along with people as normal folks do. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 5 21:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Nov 4, 2 05:22:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021105/edc7423f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 5 21:30:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Nov 4, 2 06:03:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 943 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021105/0e0d4839/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 5 21:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Mobile computing In-Reply-To: <3DC6DB4F.7626.2CACC9AB@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 4, 2 08:40:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021105/233ad036/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 5 21:57:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. In-Reply-To: <20021105014100.16030.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Nov 4, 2 05:41:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1008 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021105/a4b86e2c/attachment.ksh From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 5 23:09:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel Printer Equivalent? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021106051114.83157.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> The Qumes I'm familiar with can use Diablo HyType II _non-metal_ 45 WPM daisywheels. The ribbons, however, are not compatible. --- Mike Ford wrote: > >I've got a brand new AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel printer, > that doesn't have > >a daisy wheel. A quick glance at Google doesn't > turn up anyone who > >sells apropos wheels. There is a theory that the > 458 is a rebadged > >Qume. Does anyone know where to get 458 wheels, or > what would be an > >equivalent printer that I could find wheels for? > >Ken > > Look in one of those BIG office supply catalogs and > see if you can > figure out the daisy wheel cross reference thing > backwards. > > I have a modest sized box of ribbons etc, that I > "plan" to dump on > some large flat surface and put an image of on my > web site junk list. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 6 01:55:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: OOPS Re: Re: DECUS In-Reply-To: <3DC7F321.20362.30F1FD56@localhost> References: <3dc83a36c8eeb8.79280726@zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3DC875A8.16890.32EFEF82@localhost> > It's a great FTP site. Has a lot of DEC files; Rainbow, Professional, > DecMate, PDP8, PDP11 and other folders. The Rainbow Fido ones are in > the rainbow/docs folder. Have you by any chance any contact with Jim > Laferrier or any other of the old sysops ? > > Lawrence > > > the files were given to Jim laferrier(sp) IIRC when Gary pulled the plug on > > glacier peak rainbow. our local dec group d:Bug (Dec Bellevue users Group) > > kinda foundered when one of the main people passed away :( > > > > Do you have a link to the archives? > > Sorry. I forgot to add the URL ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/ lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 6 02:04:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <33075.64.169.63.74.1036569963.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued > Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from > Xerox's 'Small-Talk". Jobs cut a deal with them where they were allowed to invest some money in Apple in exchange for showing Apple what they were doing and allowing Apple to use some of the concepts. Also, Apple was a Smalltalk licensee. AFAICT, Xerox didn't have any grounds to "sue Jobs ass off". Though many years later, they tried to do it, and the Judge threw the case out. In terms of copyright law, the Macintosh and MS Windows were *not* "derived from" Smalltalk. Inspired by, yes. But copyright doesn't prevent using an existing work as a source of inspiration. It just protects the specific expression of ideas, not the ideas themselves. If you copyright a science fiction novel in which telekinetic aliens take over the earth, that doesn't prevent me from writing a science fiction novel in which telekinetic aliens take over the earth, provided I don't use any of your text verbatim. On the other hand, if Xerox had patented windows... > From all evidence I've seen Xerox invented the GUI. Surely the GUI was invented by Ivan Sutherland, when he developed Sketchpad in 1963? From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Wed Nov 6 04:19:00 2002 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (Doug Peksa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: DEC production plants in the '80s Message-ID: Most of my DEC equipment has a serial number beginning GA or AY. I hope that I am correct in assuming that this means the equipment was built in Ayr (Scotland) or in Galway (Ireland). However, I have a relatively early MicroVAX-II which started life in the third quarter of 1985. As I have a lot of documentary evidence about this computer, I'm writing it's biography but I don't know where it was "born". Its serial number starts with BT. I've googled about but can't find the information - anyone know? Doug. From Qstieee at aol.com Wed Nov 6 05:49:06 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000-60 front LEDs Message-ID: <112D454E.61B07357.001A265C@aol.com> Does someone have the description of what the status codes in the eight LEDs mean ? I know there is a 4000 VLC user guide on-line but that isn't detailed. I also know that a working VAXstation has none of these lights on after power-up completes. From cbajpai at attbi.com Wed Nov 6 06:45:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype In-Reply-To: <200211060108.UAA75551586@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <000201c28592$8073fe40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I'll vote the same as Megan, with a slight bias towards Boston. Since it's closer I could help with some logistics if necessary. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:08 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype Since today is a voting day, my votes are for (1) Providence (2) Boston Because of some personal bad experiences with New York, I would have to vote against it. Anywhere down to Connecticut and I would attend and exhibit. After New York, down to NJ I would attempt to attend, but would probably not be able to exhibit. Megan From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Nov 6 07:20:04 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Faulty capacitors. References: Message-ID: <3DC9187D.7070400@charter.net> It not so much the cost of the caps but also the cost of labor to replace them. With the cost of a ATX motherboard for a P4 with intel chipset and onboard intel lan, sound and video running around $70.00, it's not economically sound to have a tech spend 30 minutes to replace a $10.00 worth of caps. The company charges $130 per hour for my time, so 30 minutes to replace the caps, parts cost and checkout time after repair makes it too expensive an ordeal. The combined time and parts cost is a lot higher than simply replacing the board. A lot of the boards that have failed in our boxes have also had trace damage from corrosive electrolyte eating away the copper, but a few have shorted hard enough to blow the voltage regulators completely off the board. James Tony Duell wrote: >>I have seen a couple of motherboards that were probably victims of >>this phenomemon. I picked up a couple of mini-ATX boxen from a local >>video store that flirted with being a gamer center. 80% of the caps >>on the motherboard had popped. There were no other obvious signs of >>damage as one might expect from a simple overvoltage problem (no >>odor, no damaged traces, no heat damage, etc.). >> >>The boards were of sufficiently low quality that it wasn't worth >>the effort to secure replacement caps at retail prices. Some of >> >> > >I don't know how many capapcitors there were on each board, but >considering you'd probably get most of them for <$0.50 each at 1-off >prices, they must have been _very_ poor motherboards... > > > >>them obviously didn't matter as to the exact capacitance (decoupling >>caps), others, in the onboard voltage regulator area, probably did >>matter. >> >> > >I doubt it. Electrolytics are rarely used if the value is critical (the >tolerance is pretty wide on such components). > >-tony > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 6 08:08:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <3DC9237E.4080002@tiac.net> What your missing is the legal status of the work done at PARC. It was in (large) part done with grant money, so Xerox did not 'own' the resulting technology. Lawrence Walker wrote: > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued >Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from >Xerox's 'Small-Talk". They were a major corporation and Apple was quick >enough to disembowel DRI's GEM altho Sam's Atari ST still continued to use >an updated version of the original. MS has also litigated any threat to their >bullying dominance and despite the protestations of the C-64 fans GEOS >(any coincidence there) is obviously a clone of the GEM desktop. The mouse >was also developed at Palo Alto. I have trouble simply accepting that a major >corporation like XEROX was simply a stupid wimp. From all evidence I've >seen Xerox invented the GUI. Something more important than CP/M, >MSDOS, or UNIX. What am I missing here. > >Lawrence > >lgwalker@mts.net >bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Nov 6 08:29:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years' dormant VAX-11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6DE@deathstar.arielnet.com> As of lastnight: -Received key for front panel keyswitch in the mail -PSU status lights (o) = lit, ( ) = not lit ( ) Power OK ( ) Over Voltage (o) Over Current (o) +2.5V Fail ( ) +5V Fail (o) Reg Fail ( ) Over Temp (o) Power John Perkins Willis Software Engineer/Database Architect Ariel Technologies (505) 524-6860 jwillis@arielusa.com From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Nov 6 08:46:00 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype In-Reply-To: <000201c28592$8073fe40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> from "Chandra Bajpai" at Nov 6, 02 07:46:18 am Message-ID: <200211061447.JAA24027@wordstock.com> And thusly Chandra Bajpai spake: > > I'll vote the same as Megan, with a slight bias towards Boston. Since > it's closer I could help with some logistics if necessary. > > -Chandra > My first choice is the Boston area and my second choice is Providence. I would like to volunteer as well. Cheers, Bryan From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 6 09:00:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Need adapter for Gateway Handbook Message-ID: <007201c285a5$906f8180$0b010240@oemcomputer> Anyone have a extra or unwanted AC adapter for a Gateway 4 Handbook (486sx-25)? I found this little jewel down at the warehouse yesterday (forgot I had it) and would like test it out but the adapter port is a really strange looking one. I do not have anything to hook up to it and the battery is long dead. From hansp at aconit.org Wed Nov 6 11:38:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> <3DC9237E.4080002@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3DC95419.4000800@aconit.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > What your missing is the legal status of the work done at PARC. It was > in (large) part done with grant money, > so Xerox did not 'own' the resulting technology. Interesting, I have not heard that beforee. Would you care to explain further. -- hbp From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 6 11:43:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and >adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival What? Nobody from the list is invited? From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Nov 6 12:00:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > >Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > >adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > What? Nobody from the list is invited? Hahahaha. You're lucky i put down my tea before reading that (and so is my keyboard). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 6 12:02:34 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> <3DC9237E.4080002@tiac.net> <3DC95419.4000800@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3DC959D6.3000609@tiac.net> As far as I know, Xerox did a lot of the PARC development on DARPA grants, not totally unlike TMI's work on developing the CM-1 supercomputer. Some grants have stipulations that can restrict patentability, just as most employers restrict an engineer from 'owning' a patent for work done on the job (the company 'owns' any such patent). These arangements can complicate the ownership of any intellectual property that is developed. To file a patent there are some clear limitations on the ownerhip and origination of the subject of the patent. The best example that comes to mind are the many complications when a patent application has a co-inventor. Its much more complex than when the application is the work of a single individual, due to the 'proof of origination' documentation. Lastly, in business its not generall a good idea to patent something new, unless your about to commercialize it at the same time. A years-old, but otherwise valid patent is very hard to defend if you have not exercised your I.P. rights. It can in effect become an abandon property. Someone later comes along and makes commercial use of it, and they gain a lot of legal advantage should you choose to enforce your disused patent long after the fact. You cannot 'lay in wait' for a patent voilator to become succesful, and then try to grab the gold. So in many ways, a patent is only useful in a limited number of situations. PARC was not in one of those situations, and even if they had a crystal ball and accurately saw the future, getting a patent at the time of invention would have done them little good at all. Lastly, PARC 'disclosed' their work. I've heard that PARC eagerly demonstrated what they were doing to many people (not like was shown in the TV program). This makes sense if the work was grant-based. This 'disclosure' alone would prohibit a patent application. Hans B Pufal wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > >> What your missing is the legal status of the work done at PARC. It >> was in (large) part done with grant money, >> so Xerox did not 'own' the resulting technology. > > > Interesting, I have not heard that beforee. Would you care to explain > further. > > -- hbp > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 6 13:40:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC959D6.3000609@tiac.net> References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> <3DC9237E.4080002@tiac.net> <3DC95419.4000800@aconit.org> <3DC959D6.3000609@tiac.net> Message-ID: The Los Angeles Times last weekend had a nice little article on the guy who invented Pai Gow poker. He was initially advised that games based on the common 52 card deck were not patentable, and only learned otherwise when people made successfull patents on variations of Pai Gow and it was too late for him. Apparently casinos pay a royalty for every table that plays a patented game, and worldwide that is something like $70k/month he missed out on. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Nov 6 14:32:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC959D6.3000609@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Lastly, in business its not generall a good idea to patent something > new, unless your about to commercialize it at the same time. A > years-old, but otherwise valid patent is very hard to defend if you have > not exercised your I.P. rights. > > It can in effect become an abandon property. Someone later comes along > and makes commercial use of it, and they gain a lot of legal advantage > should you choose to enforce your disused patent long after the fact. > You cannot 'lay in wait' for a patent voilator to become succesful, and > then try to grab the gold. Well... perhaps "in theory" but that doesn't seem to be the case in practice. At least it isn't wrt the farcical U.S. IP laws and patent process. http://www.youmaybenext.com/ -> If you own or operate an e-commerce web site then you are us. And -> you need to know that a company in San Diego, Pangea Intellectual -> Properties (PanIP LLC) is suing companies all across the country. -> They claim that if you use graphical and textural information on a -> video screen for purposes of making a sale, then you are infringing -> on their patent. US Patent No 5,576,951. -> -> And if you accept information to conduct automatic financial -> transactions via a telephone line & video screen, you're infringing -> on their patent. US Patent No. 6,289,319 -brian. From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 6 15:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Mike Ross wrote: > >The locations I am considering for VCF East 2.0 are Providence, RI, Boston > >proper, or New York City. Basically, somewhere with a large >population > >center, that is central to a greater population center, and >where a lot of > >vintage computer enthusiasts would easily find their >way to. > > Any of the above would suit me. I would bring Big Iron. > > I would sign up for yer list, but vintage.org seems to have gone AWOL for > now... Sorry about that. Everything seems to be fixed now. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Wed Nov 6 15:11:01 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: cctalk free stuff -- AIM65 Message-ID: <269010-220021136211343670@buckeye-express.com> >From: "Rich Beaudry" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:18:02 +0000 > >The AIM-65 has been tested. I want the AIM-65. I started in computers around 1980 with a KIM. I do not need it forever; just a month or so to become familiar with operating it. I can then pass it on to someone else. If I do get it then I will try to repair it. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan 48161 From palazzol at comcast.net Wed Nov 6 15:17:00 2002 From: palazzol at comcast.net (Frank Palazzolo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Analog computers (was Re: COMDYNA GP-6) Message-ID: <3DC93FF6.4939.6CE9C38@localhost> Ethan Dicks wrote: >My one and only experierience with analog computing was a dedicated >device (no patch panel) that calculated energy reserves for the >planet. It had an LED counter for the year and numerous dials for >amount of driving, heating, electricity usage, etc. Physically, >it was about 3" thick and several feet square. I remember trying >out a variety of simulations on it when it was at the local science >museum, COSI, some summer between 1976 and 1980. I remember this as one of those fuzzy childhood memories. In fact, I was never sure that it actually existed until reading this message. I know I only had a few minutes to play with it, sometime in the 70's. I remember asking "what do you do when the energy runs out?" :) I thought it might have been developed in the aftermath of the "energy crisis" in 1973. I can picture the wooden frame, and you could see some of the circuitry through the front I think... I hope someone finds a picture of that thingy. -Frank From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 6 17:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Nov 4, 2 10:40:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021106/01fcf580/attachment.ksh From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Nov 6 18:04:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: Message-ID: <3DC9AF0F.90002@tiac.net> The idea behind this scam is to file suites they fully know they would loose in court. A messy legal tactic, but hardly a problem with the U.S. I.P. laws (which are far better than most others). Brian Chase wrote: >On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>Lastly, in business its not generall a good idea to patent something >>new, unless your about to commercialize it at the same time. A >>years-old, but otherwise valid patent is very hard to defend if you have >>not exercised your I.P. rights. >> >>It can in effect become an abandon property. Someone later comes along >>and makes commercial use of it, and they gain a lot of legal advantage >>should you choose to enforce your disused patent long after the fact. >> You cannot 'lay in wait' for a patent voilator to become succesful, and >>then try to grab the gold. >> > >Well... perhaps "in theory" but that doesn't seem to be the case >in practice. At least it isn't wrt the farcical U.S. IP laws and patent >process. > >http://www.youmaybenext.com/ > >-> If you own or operate an e-commerce web site then you are us. And >-> you need to know that a company in San Diego, Pangea Intellectual >-> Properties (PanIP LLC) is suing companies all across the country. >-> They claim that if you use graphical and textural information on a >-> video screen for purposes of making a sale, then you are infringing >-> on their patent. US Patent No 5,576,951. >-> >-> And if you accept information to conduct automatic financial >-> transactions via a telephone line & video screen, you're infringing >-> on their patent. US Patent No. 6,289,319 > >-brian. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021106/2122f4e5/attachment.html From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Nov 6 19:11:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (nick oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000-60 front LEDs In-Reply-To: <112D454E.61B07357.001A265C@aol.com> References: <112D454E.61B07357.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DC9BE38.60702@arrl.net> Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > Does someone have the description of what the status codes in the eight LEDs > mean ? I know there is a 4000 VLC user guide on-line but that isn't detailed. > I also know that a working VAXstation has none of these lights on after > power-up completes. > This from the manual: 00x0 000x LCG video ram failed 00x0 00x0 LCG register test failed 00x0 00xx LCG FIFO test failed 00x0 0x00 LCG interrupt test failed 00x0 0x0x LCG address generator test failed 00x0 0xx0 LCG virtual test failed 00xx 0x0x The LK401 test failed 00xx 0xx0 The mouse test failed 0x0x 000x A mem error occurred during the forward pass for a mem test, while the mem test was moving from address 0 to memsize (x = on) -nick o From marvin at rain.org Wed Nov 6 19:15:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: Message-ID: <3DC9BF13.C4FD1E6E@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... Well said and *THAT* is a sentiment I can not only relate to, but wholeheartedly support!!!!!! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 6 19:28:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > >Didn't I say this at the start? Fine, we're all agreed that it would be >better if I didn't attend a VCF-UK. I've got plenty of other things to >get one with... > >> adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > >FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... > >-tony Sheesh, if I wanted to be mature and hang with normal people I could go to church or something. From archer at topnow.com Wed Nov 6 19:41:00 2002 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! References: <3DC9BF13.C4FD1E6E@rain.org> Message-ID: <3DC9C548.A680DA3@topnow.com> Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... > > Well said and *THAT* is a sentiment I can not only relate to, but > wholeheartedly support!!!!!! There are scads upon scads of normal people, who, by virtue of being largely alike, are basically redundant. :) -- Ross From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 6 20:49:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tw plugs to follow-up on John's comments... On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > I am using VanDayke's CRT on a Thinkpad, and it has never failed me, > from living in India to living in the California Sierras, and with my > cellphone when on the road. VanDyke makes the best telnet clients I have ever used. I now exclusively used SecureCRT (since my server was hacked) and also SecureFX, which is their secure FTP client. SecureFX is the security version of AbsoluteFTP. Both feature drag & drop interfaces and are as every bit as good and clean as CRT and SecureCRT. > One thing, though, about Panix you might want to bear in mind. When you > call them, something known as a 'human being' will answer the phone right > away, and that person will not only know what you're talking about, you > will be connected to another one of those 'human' devices, (I have never > been on hold with them, BTW) and in my few tech calls, the person helping > me knew precisely what they were talking about and gave me the complete, > correct info the first time. An ISP in northern California that I gave some seed capital to way back in 1994 when they were small but growing has similar service. Humans always answer the phone, and they are still small enough to still like their customers, but big enough to be a full service ISP with good service. They also have nationwide dialups. PsyberWare http://www.psyber.com Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 6 21:03:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc Message-ID: >The idea behind this scam is to file suites they fully know they would >loose in court. A messy legal tactic, but >hardly a problem with the U.S. I.P. laws (which are far better than most >others). You forgot the most important detail. You file suits you know you will loose... but only while offering a settlement that is profitable for you, and cheap enough that it is cheaper for the other person to settle, then to defend the BS lawsuit. -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Nov 6 21:04:40 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021030221505.0f4f9a44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > Hi Pat, > > I'm assuming that your laser is helium-neon laser. If so, then if > it's 23 years old it almost certainly has what they refer to as a > soft seal between the electrodes and glass tube. The problem with the > soft sealed lasers is that the helium atoms are small enough that > they slowly leak out of the seal. When they do, the mixture ratio > changes and the ignition and operating voltage goes up until the > laser will no longer operates. That's what it sounds like is > happening with your laser. Your's sounds like it's it border line in > that the PSU firing voltage can make it fire but the operating > voltage isn't high enough to keep it operating. The laser is a Spectra Physics Stabilite model 24B 35mW HeNe laser, and the power supply is a Spectra Physics Laser Exciter model 255. That seems accurate. I've rigged up a 'line conditioner' to give me a cheap pseudo-variac to change the input voltage to the laser power supply (the supply is a simple transformer -> rectifier -> capacitor type with a current regulator stuck on it, here's a PDF I found: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/255apsch.pdf Does anyone know what the specs are on that transformer (eg rated output voltage), and how far I can (fairly-safely) run it above its rated input voltage? Specifically, it'd be nice to know an upper limit so I don't explode the HV caps or diodes. > Further you can't just use a resistor as a dummy load. The laser > tube is similar to neon and floresent lights in that it has a > negative resistance. That is it has a certain amount of resistance > until it fires and then the resistance decreases dramaticly. You > have to use a ballast with such devices or else the current will > increase drasticly and almost instantly burn out the device. The > ignition voltage will be on the order of 20,000 volts but the > operating voltage will be roughly 12,000 to 14,000 volts. By looking at the schematic I linked above, it looks to run at a lower voltage than that, but it's hard to tell without a HV meter or knowing what the tranformer is outputting. > Be careful using a scope around these things. It probably isn't made > to handle nearly the kind of voltages involved in the laser. You > need a good high voltage probe for checking these things. You can > use one made for TV repair. They're fairly easy to find and are > reasonably priced. I wasn't going to scope the HV side, and since there is no LV side of the power supply, I'm just not going to bother looking at it with a scope. Besides, it's a simple enough circuit to troubleshoot with a HV meter. > If you send me the brand and model tube I may be able to tell you if > it's a soft sealed tube and other details. > > Joe > > At 04:38 PM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote: > >I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the > >hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the > >list... > > > >I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next > >to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) > >blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the > >sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt > >after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem > >with the power supply. > > > >Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying > >to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a > >general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning > >off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube > >has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm > >resistor be a good idea? > > > >Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got > >an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no > >'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. > > > >I'm just looking for general guidelines. > > > >Thanks! Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 6 22:18:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: PDP 11s available Message-ID: I dropped Leo a line and he replied - he's in Montreal. Somebody oughta grab 'em.... Not associated, reply directly, blah blah blah. Doc From: Leo Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: PDP 11s available Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:31:37 -0500 I just picked up a couple of these old machines as scrap... not exactly sure of the model. They have 2, 5" floppys in front, and a small panel with 4 push switches, and a couple of other switches. They fit a 19" rack and run on 120v. They have a ton of db25, rs232 ports on the back. They were running a custom C program and a debugger for a company, along with the standard operating system. They had at least 3 terminals and 2 printers and a bunch of machine processes running electrical devices. Something like 18 devices on rs232. One machine was a hot standby. I know they were running with LA120 printers and a few screens I forget the number...191 maybe??, none of which is available... They were operating last I know, but were simply turned off and replaced. (by a crappy 386PC network!!) They have been sitting in a warehouse for the last 8 years, and were thrown out to make room. They are tremendously dirty!! Looks like parts from a coal mine!! And they weigh a ton!! If I had the monitor/keyboard I'd run them for fun, but I don't have the time to persue another hobby!! And I don't know if the dirt has ruined the floppys. Anyone have any interest in this stuff? Also a box of junked 120 printer parts? Thanks From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Nov 6 22:28:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Nov 6, 2 05:27:39 pm" Message-ID: <200211070439.UAA27444@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Sheesh, if I wanted to be mature and hang with normal people I could > go to church or something. That's never helped me with that in the slightest. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I'm a dyslexic amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. ----------- From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 6 22:52:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Teaser Message-ID: <20021107045359.FQKU23632.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> After the LUG meeting this evening at a Pub, I learned about a Phillips beige box with a pair of 8" floppies being used as a coffee table. Any guesses as to what it could be? I'm thinking of trading a AS400 9404, or IBM PC 500 server to take over as a coffee table. From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Nov 6 23:06:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse being scrapped In-Reply-To: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> References: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> Message-ID: <20021107053301.GC96818@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Greetings, A few minutes ago, I discovered that I received the following message. Can anyone help to save these machines? While I'd love to have a DG Eclipse, have wanted one for years---which was the first largish system that I was ever paid to work with, there's no way that I can get to N.Y. to retrieve then, but perhaps someone else on the list can save these systems from being scrapped. Alas, there isn't much time to rescue them, so time is of the essence; I wish I'd seen this e-mail yesterday. Quothe Eric Kotz, from writings of Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 09:47:54AM -0500: > Hello, > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > disks/manuals/etc for them. > > Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > The machines are outside Buffalo, NY. If you have any interest, or know > someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > Thanks, > Eric Kotz > eric@erickotz.com > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 6 23:32:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: VCF 5 In-Reply-To: <00c001c2836a$5df67480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > Here's a VCF animated "Commercial" from someone named > "Uncle Rodger" who I don't know is a lister or not, > discovered while searching Kaypro sites. It's pretty good. > > http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/vcfban.gif This was made by good friend Roger Sinasohn for last year's (cancelled) VCF 5.0 (you can see by the dates). Roger always does awesome favors for me, because Roger is awesome ;) I think he's still subscribed here. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 6 23:36:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF Message-ID: Michael Nadeau has written a most excellent guide for collecting computers call (of all things), _Collectible Microcomputers_. It's not available in stores yet but through an arrangement with Michael and the publisher you can order it through the VCF website. http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php The price is $29.95 plus $5 for priority mail shipping. If you want a cheaper shipping option then just e-mail me. I'm taking payments through PayPal (including credit cards) or personal check or money order if you prefer (e-mail me for the latter options). We had hoped to introduce it at VCF 5.0 but the USPS took longer than expected to deliver the package. There are a ton of pictures in this book! There are a lot of machines that I've never heard of, which is cool, because I learned something new, and sucks, because now I have to go out and find them ;) Support your fellow list members and buy a copy of this book! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Nov 7 00:33:00 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse being scrapped References: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> <20021107053301.GC96818@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <00ea01c28626$42423670$05247452@newhare> I received this message this morning, have contacted Eric and also posting his message to the group (which apparently got lost in the ether). Eric indicates that tese are double-bay racks each with an S/130, 10 MB (5 + 5) Phoenix disk drive, 9-track tape controller and other minor peripherals. I am trying to at least preserve the docs and software but would also like to see the core processor hardware saved. Unfortunately this is a very short notice but would appreciate comments/ideas/help or sympathy. Bruce Ray bkr@WildHareComputers.com The DG legacy preserved: www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:33 PM Subject: Data General Eclipse being scrapped > Greetings, > > A few minutes ago, I discovered that I received the following message. > Can anyone help to save these machines? While I'd love to have a DG > Eclipse, have wanted one for years---which was the first largish > system that I was ever paid to work with, there's no way that I can > get to N.Y. to retrieve then, but perhaps someone else on the list can > save these systems from being scrapped. Alas, there isn't much time to > rescue them, so time is of the essence; I wish I'd seen this e-mail > yesterday. > > Quothe Eric Kotz, from writings of Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 09:47:54AM -0500: > > Hello, > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > > works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > > are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > > missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > > wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > > These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > > disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > > Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > > monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > > scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > > unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > > The machines are outside Buffalo, NY. If you have any interest, or know > > someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Kotz > > eric@erickotz.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > > to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Nov 7 00:42:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction References: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> <20021107053301.GC96818@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <00ea01c28626$42423670$05247452@newhare> Message-ID: <001301c28629$07bcf3c0$633acd18@D73KSM11> A Cray T3-D supercomputer is up for auction by the gov't. It is located in Rhode Island and if you want to inspect it prior to the sale, you have to submit your request by Friday. Offers are due by November 22. Details at: http://www.govliquidation.com/specialPromotion/cray.html -W From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Nov 7 00:52:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse being scrapped In-Reply-To: <00ea01c28626$42423670$05247452@newhare> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Bruce Ray wrote: > I received this message this morning, have contacted Eric and also > posting his message to the group (which apparently got lost in the > ether). > > Eric indicates that tese are double-bay racks each with an S/130, 10 MB > (5 + 5) Phoenix disk drive, 9-track tape controller and other minor > peripherals. I am trying to at least preserve the docs and software but > would also like to see the core processor hardware saved. > Unfortunately this is a very short notice but would appreciate > comments/ideas/help or sympathy. If I was located up your way, I'd help out in any way I could. Unfortunately, I'm in Texas, so I can't really help, but you certainly have my sympathy. After that dumpster fiasco (well, not completely, but so many books, magazines, and papers were lost to the rain), I know just how difficult it can be to successfully rescue/salvage stuff... -Toth From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Nov 7 05:51:01 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price with FREE shipping!!! If not, I might just rather wait until they are on eBay. Or better yet, maybe just wait until I can COPY one, you know, for FREE!!! Note: The above is purely satire. It looks like a pretty nice book, but I wonder if your sources of information were truly comprehensive? At 09:37 PM 11/6/02 -0800, you wrote: >Michael Nadeau has written a most excellent guide for collecting computers >call (of all things), _Collectible Microcomputers_. It's not available in >stores yet but through an arrangement with Michael and the publisher you >can order it through the VCF website. > >http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php > >The price is $29.95 plus $5 for priority mail shipping. If you want a >cheaper shipping option then just e-mail me. > >I'm taking payments through PayPal (including credit cards) or personal >check or money order if you prefer (e-mail me for the latter options). > >We had hoped to introduce it at VCF 5.0 but the USPS took longer than >expected to deliver the package. > >There are a ton of pictures in this book! There are a lot of machines >that I've never heard of, which is cool, because I learned something new, >and sucks, because now I have to go out and find them ;) > >Support your fellow list members and buy a copy of this book! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From intron at gmx.de Thu Nov 7 06:32:00 2002 From: intron at gmx.de (intron@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:43 2005 Subject: FS: MF8008 chips Message-ID: To all classic collectors out there: I have 2 pieces of Microsystems International MF8008 which I want to sell. My location is Germany. Any serious offers by e-mail are welcome. Best regards, Michael ________________________________________________________________________________ gesendet ?ber http://mailchecker.de (SSL-WebMail, SSL- WebFTP, FreeSMS) Tipp: Webmasterhilfe rund um die Uhr: Forum von http://ig-stratokunden.de From at258 at osfn.org Thu Nov 7 08:10:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > > FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... Hear, hear! M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 7 08:18:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Terminal documentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31464942381.20021107082002@subatomix.com> I saw this on the info-pdp11 list and thought some of our repository managers might like his manual to scan or stow. Contact Rob directly, please. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Rob Brown To: info-pdp11@village.org Date: Wednesday, November 6, 2002, 8:50:08 PM Subject: Old documentation I have in my hand a "Vision II 3220 User's Manual" which describes a VT220-type terminal from Lanpar Technologies (or maybe Northern Technologies, both names are used). Probably around 100 sheets, two-sided. Is there any repository that would like to have this? -- Rob Brown brown@gmcl.com G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! Edmonton (780)438-9343 (voice) (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From curt at atari-history.com Thu Nov 7 08:23:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction References: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> <20021107053301.GC96818@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <00ea01c28626$42423670$05247452@newhare> <001301c28629$07bcf3c0$633acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <000e01c28669$4abca400$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Too bad it needs 440v 3phase and also requires the cooling unit, how cool would that be to have setup at VCF-East 2.0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anybody gonna bid??? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:43 AM Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction > A Cray T3-D supercomputer is up for auction by the gov't. It is located in > Rhode Island and if you want to inspect it prior to the sale, you have to submit > your request by Friday. Offers are due by November 22. Details at: > > http://www.govliquidation.com/specialPromotion/cray.html > > -W > > > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Nov 7 09:32:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: cctalk free stuff -- AIM65 Message-ID: >I want the AIM-65. Sheesh! ... EVERYONE wants the AIM-65.... The random number generator is going to be thoroughly stresed out over the weekend! :-) Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From jplist at kiwigeek.com Thu Nov 7 09:34:48 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: <001301c28629$07bcf3c0$633acd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: > A Cray T3-D supercomputer is up for auction by the gov't. It is located in > Rhode Island and if you want to inspect it prior to the sale, you have to submit > your request by Friday. Offers are due by November 22. Details at: > http://www.govliquidation.com/specialPromotion/cray.html Just out of general curiosity, what do Crays resale for these days in general? I'm safe in the knowledge that there's probably no way in hell I could afford one (My wife lets out a sigh of relief), but I'd be curious to know what they're really "worth"...? JP From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 09:37:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > >I guess I need to clarify just a little here...I'm taking of an internal > >telephone-type system that I can connect all of my computer systems to. It > >really isn't that easy to have everything connected and ready to use at > >any given moment. Of course, some folks will consider my "Ideal" switching > >system to be overkill, which perhaps it is :) > > One of my friends has some kind of AT&T Merlin phone system in his > house. He thinks everybody else is missing something. Merlin's suck. I've got a full-blown miniature central office in my house. The eOn (formerly Cortelco) Millennium could easily act as a central office for a small neighborhood. It has all the features of a regular telephone exchange and is completely programmable, and fits on my closet shelf. I currently have 80 ports and a T-1 stuffed into mine though I'm only really using about 20 (4 lines, voicemail/auto-attendant and about 8 extensions scattered throughout the house). Once I get the T-1 clock board for it I'll be using that as my link to the voicemail system for clean and seamless call transfers. I am UberGeek. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 09:39:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #259 - 6 msgs In-Reply-To: <3DC5FB21.58406521@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, Larry Anderson wrote: > P.S. ...and the final programs from the programming challenge! EXCELLENT! I am so glad you saved those. I did not have the presence of mind to ask you guys to do so and was wondering if they were. I would have hated for Jeri Ellsworth's Pimp Simulation to have been lost ;) Unfortunately you are suffering a vintage.org-esque outage currently so I'll have to try your website later I guess. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Nov 7 09:44:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DCA98D0.21641.9C6F6D9@localhost> > > > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > >Didn't I say this at the start? Fine, we're all agreed that it would be > >better if I didn't attend a VCF-UK. I've got plenty of other things to > >get one with... > >> adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > >FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... > Sheesh, if I wanted to be mature and hang with normal people I could > go to church or something. Now wait a moment ! Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 09:56:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > > Didn't I say this at the start? Fine, we're all agreed that it would be > better if I didn't attend a VCF-UK. I've got plenty of other things to > get one with... > > > adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > > FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... Fine, I can agree with that, but I still expect (or at least hope) that people who come to the VCF will: a) not be rude, insulting or demeaning regarding another person's exhibit b) treat other folks with respect as one would do in any public setting c) bathe You indicated that you would come ready to flame people, which violates expectations a) and b). I've never had a problem with personality at the VCF. People tend to act much differently in real life than they do on mailing lists (I know I do). But at any rate, the success of VCF UK will not depend on whether you or any other one person in particular comes or doesn't come, with the only exception being myself (because then it wouldn't be a VCF ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 09:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) Message-ID: See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. Can anyone rescue them? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 From: Christian Fandt To: Sellam Ismail Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped Hey Sellam! Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to ask you to pass this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! This is short notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address through the Rescue List or maybe a web search, or ? East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten miles southeast of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, later in the Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. -Chris NNNN -- -- >From: "Eric Kotz" >To: >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > tests=none > version=2.31 >X-Spam-Level: > >Hello, > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of >disks/manuals/etc for them. > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from you). If you have >any interest, or know >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > >Thanks, >Eric Kotz >eric@erickotz.com > >--------------------------------------------------------- >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 10:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price > with FREE shipping!!! > > If not, I might just rather wait until they are on eBay. > > Or better yet, maybe just wait until I can COPY one, you know, for FREE!!! Why are you such a dick? > Note: The above is purely satire. It looks like a pretty nice book, but I > wonder > if your sources of information were truly comprehensive? Whatever. You're still a dick. (Note for foreign dialects: dick = penis; similar to an asshole but more obnoxious and not worth the time to write out the extra letters.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 10:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, JP Hindin wrote: > Just out of general curiosity, what do Crays resale for these days in > general? > I'm safe in the knowledge that there's probably no way in hell I could > afford one (My wife lets out a sigh of relief), but I'd be curious to know > what they're really "worth"...? For that you'd have to figure out the content of precious metals and value it based on that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Nov 7 10:06:36 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) References: Message-ID: <074901c28677$be570780$033310ac@kwcorp.com> oh MAN do I want a DG Eclipse bad *sigh* But with my recent acquisitions, I'm tapped out on time to do anything about these :\ Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) > > See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General > Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. > > Can anyone rescue them? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 > From: Christian Fandt > To: Sellam Ismail > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > Hey Sellam! > > Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to ask you to pass > this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should > _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! This is short > notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address through the Rescue > List or maybe a web search, or ? > > East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten miles southeast > of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. > > Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, later in the > Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. > > -Chris > > > NNNN > > -- -- > > >From: "Eric Kotz" > >To: > >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 > >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > > tests=none > > version=2.31 > >X-Spam-Level: > > > >Hello, > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > >disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from you). If you have > >any interest, or know > >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > > >Thanks, > >Eric Kotz > >eric@erickotz.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Nov 7 10:35:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: Message-ID: <3DCAA4ED.10131.9F64840@localhost> > Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price > with FREE shipping!!! As soon as you find that source, I need to oderder some additional prints... > Note: The above is purely satire. It looks like a pretty nice book, but I > wonder if your sources of information were truly comprehensive? Now, the book is realy well done. Except for a few typing error and the usual blinds most american authors show when it comes to acnowmedge a world beneeth their native coastline (*1) it's the best guide to classic microcomputers I have ever seen. It is quite easy to critisize a book and point out thing as 'wrong' just because one would do it different - just, I hat a hard time to do so. There where no realy 'wrongs', at most some disputable informations, and consindering the fact how much machines, pictures and informations are in there, I would have a hard time to do a better Job ... well, of course I could do better ... err ... it would just look like a mere second reworked edition. Like for example the Commodore section: Why is the 64GS never mentioned, or why is the Colt, only named in the text but not with data or a picture (I'm still not shure if the PC-1 and the Colt are realy the same units). Also a picture of a teachers C64, or mentioning the Teachers Pet is needed. Or Apple, for shure the IIe card for the LC PDS needs an entry, since it's the very last Apple II from Apple (*2). It also puzzles me why the Tano Dragon is not mentioned among the Tano section - the story would add a nice pice of CC-Trivia. Likewise if Ray Holds history of the birth of the Tandy Model 1 (and the huge royalities MS got for the Basic) could be read in the Tandy section :) I couldn't find hard technical errors in ther at maximum some facts that need to be rewriten. As an examlpe the Digital Group secion may be used. Listing the alternative CPUs as options is at least confuesing. It wasn't a Z80 system with optional other boards but raher a generic system where you could choose the CPU you liked. It looks like this misleading presentation is rather made up due the rigid structure of the technical data entries, and a proper leading text may point this out. In fact, as soon as a system leaves the mainstream, the data section tends to become either waste of space or not able to tell the true facts. More flexibility in here may be a good idea for future releases. My suggestion: go out and buy it. Gruss H. (*1) In fact, I should take this back, Michael took wothy effort to include a remarkable ammount of information about machines and the collecting situation outside Canada/US. I guess it was just in favour to avoide that the average reader may get a headach from to much information from outher space ... (*2) One of the few total new pices of information to me was that there where gray Bell & Howells. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Nov 7 11:23:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > > Note: The above is purely satire. It looks like a pretty nice book, but I > wonder > if your sources of information were truly comprehensive? That sounds like a comment from somebody who didn't get interviewed.... Doc From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Nov 7 11:49:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) Message-ID: <200211071747.gA7HlOg03920@io.crash.com> Sellam Ismail writes: . > I am UberGeek. I can't argue with this one -- I have no warehouse to "whip out" for the UberGeek comparo... ;^) > Merlin's suck. I've got a full-blown miniature central office in > my house. The eOn (formerly Cortelco) Millennium [...] I think most of us would be well served by a small Panasonic or AT&T Legend hybrid switch. Many people would be stepping up with a nice 3x8 or 4x12 system. If any of you are wondering, I'm here to tell you its worth it if you like to tinker with phones as well as computers. As for me, I've got a nice little Nortel CICS switch and voice jail nailed to the wall in the basement. And soon, very very soon, callers on hold will relax to the mellow strains of Mel Torme belting out his immortal version of "So Happy Together" or Guy Lombardo's version of "Mrs. Robinson," and other aural atrocities... Follow this link if you're more curious than revolted: www.ultralounge.com (Flash req.) or http://www.dblcrown.com/eow1.html for a review. Far, far afield, I know... Ob. classiccmp: Did anyone here pick up one of the two VAX 11/725's that went on eBay recently? --Steve. From owad at applefritter.com Thu Nov 7 11:57:00 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021107171731.9749@mail.lafayette.edu> >There are a ton of pictures in this book! There are a lot of machines >that I've never heard of, which is cool, because I learned something new, >and sucks, because now I have to go out and find them ;) I'll second this. The book is excellent and I've spent hours just paging through it. There are quite a few machines I've never heard of and many I've never seen such excellent pictures of before. I recommend it. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Nov 7 11:59:01 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <3DCAA4ED.10131.9F64840@localhost> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107123139.00a03ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hans, I'm curious enough to take a look at it if I see it on the bookstore shelves, but I'd want to see it before making the commitment. If the valuation data is based solely or primarily on eBay data and/or hobbyist opinion, then it would be failing to acknowledge a serious segment of the market, ie the commercial market in "out of production", "end of life" computer components. If that sector's data is not represented, then I would feel the data to be "skewed." Still, probably many good pictures for identification purposes, and good technical data? > That sounds like a comment from somebody who didn't get > interviewed.... That is correct. Therefore I have no knowledge of it's content. Only questions. At 05:37 PM 11/7/02 +0100, you wrote: > > Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price > > with FREE shipping!!! > >As soon as you find that source, I need to oderder some additional >prints... > > > Note: The above is purely satire. It looks like a pretty nice book, but I > > wonder if your sources of information were truly comprehensive? > >Now, the book is realy well done. Except for a few typing error >and the usual blinds most american authors show when it comes to >acnowmedge a world beneeth their native coastline (*1) it's the >best guide to classic microcomputers I have ever seen. > >It is quite easy to critisize a book and point out thing as 'wrong' >just because one would do it different - just, I hat a hard time >to do so. There where no realy 'wrongs', at most some disputable >informations, and consindering the fact how much machines, pictures >and informations are in there, I would have a hard time to do a better >Job ... well, of course I could do better ... err ... it would just >look like a mere second reworked edition. > >Like for example the Commodore section: Why is the 64GS never >mentioned, or why is the Colt, only named in the text but not >with data or a picture (I'm still not shure if the PC-1 and the >Colt are realy the same units). Also a picture of a teachers >C64, or mentioning the Teachers Pet is needed. Or Apple, for >shure the IIe card for the LC PDS needs an entry, since it's >the very last Apple II from Apple (*2). It also puzzles me why >the Tano Dragon is not mentioned among the Tano section - the >story would add a nice pice of CC-Trivia. Likewise if Ray Holds >history of the birth of the Tandy Model 1 (and the huge royalities >MS got for the Basic) could be read in the Tandy section :) > >I couldn't find hard technical errors in ther at maximum some >facts that need to be rewriten. As an examlpe the Digital Group >secion may be used. Listing the alternative CPUs as options is >at least confuesing. It wasn't a Z80 system with optional other >boards but raher a generic system where you could choose the CPU >you liked. It looks like this misleading presentation is rather >made up due the rigid structure of the technical data entries, >and a proper leading text may point this out. In fact, as soon >as a system leaves the mainstream, the data section tends to >become either waste of space or not able to tell the true facts. >More flexibility in here may be a good idea for future releases. > >My suggestion: go out and buy it. > >Gruss >H. > >(*1) In fact, I should take this back, Michael took wothy effort >to include a remarkable ammount of information about machines and >the collecting situation outside Canada/US. I guess it was just >in favour to avoide that the average reader may get a headach from >to much information from outher space ... > >(*2) One of the few total new pices of information to me was that >there where gray Bell & Howells. > >-- >VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ From jmooney776 at comcast.net Thu Nov 7 12:15:00 2002 From: jmooney776 at comcast.net (Jim Mooney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211071747.gA7HlOg03920@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021107131659.021ec378@mail.comcast.net> Hi, Can you point to any webistes that have info about these phone systems? Do they pop up on eBay? Thanks Jim >I think most of us would be well served by a small Panasonic or AT&T >Legend hybrid switch. Many people would be stepping up with a nice 3x8 >or 4x12 system. If any of you are wondering, I'm here to tell you its >worth it if you like to tinker with phones as well as computers. > >As for me, I've got a nice little Nortel CICS switch and voice jail >nailed to the wall in the basement. And soon, very very soon, callers >on hold will relax to the mellow strains of Mel Torme belting out his >immortal version of "So Happy Together" or Guy Lombardo's version of >"Mrs. Robinson," and other aural atrocities... Follow this link if >you're more curious than revolted: www.ultralounge.com (Flash req.) >or http://www.dblcrown.com/eow1.html for a review. > >Far, far afield, I know... > > >Ob. classiccmp: Did anyone here pick up one of the two VAX 11/725's >that went on eBay recently? > >--Steve. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Nov 7 12:32:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107123139.00a03ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <3DCAA4ED.10131.9F64840@localhost> Message-ID: <3DCAC050.3622.A6142CA@localhost> > I'm curious enough to take a look at it if I see it on the bookstore > shelves, but I'd want to see it before making the commitment. I realy don't know if this book will hit the big shops soon. Also, 30 Bucks is less than the average Harry Potter thing .) > If > the valuation data is based solely or primarily on eBay data and/or > hobbyist opinion, then it would be failing to acknowledge a serious > segment of the market, ie the commercial market in "out of production", > "end of life" computer components. If that sector's data is not represented, > then I would feel the data to be "skewed." Now, I'm very suspicious about any kind of apraisal data. Prices for old gear are just random. As for what I can tell the ranges given in the book are in belivable ranges - well, maybe the C64 starts out to high (3-35 /5-40 USD) ... the lower limit for C64s is still a quater :) > Still, probably many good > pictures for identification purposes, and good technical data? Jep. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Nov 7 12:51:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) Message-ID: <200211071853.gA7Ir1g04037@io.crash.com> > Can you point to any webistes that have info about these > phone systems? Do they pop up on eBay? I'll go through my notes later for a summary. All manner of excellent, marginal, and downright bizarre phone gear turns up on eBay. As with anything else, some is wildly overpriced and some starts out as a bargain, and may not end up that way. Caveat emptor, double for eBay. The Panasonic stuff seems to be the friendliest and provices the most bang for the buck, but this is a hugely subjective topic. Best thing I can tell you before I run out the door is to check out the newsgroups comp.dcom.telecom and comp.dcom.telecom.tech on Google Groups. The "home pbx" thread has come up many times, and there's a lot of good info archived there. --Steve. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 7 12:55:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Repairing devices In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021030221505.0f4f9a44@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021107135524.47076d0c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I checked around but I can't find any info on this model laser. Is there a date on it anywhere? Here is a link the the Stablite lasers on Spectra Physics website. There's also a phone number on that page. I would call them and get the specs for that laser and ask (1) if it's a hard sealed laser (2) if that's the right power suplly for it. Someone clould have just stuck any power supply with it and the wrong PS could certainly cause the problems that you're having. If that is the right PS ask them what the operating current, trigger and operating voltage should be. Joe At 10:07 PM 11/6/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Hi Pat, >> >> I'm assuming that your laser is helium-neon laser. If so, then if >> it's 23 years old it almost certainly has what they refer to as a >> soft seal between the electrodes and glass tube. The problem with the >> soft sealed lasers is that the helium atoms are small enough that >> they slowly leak out of the seal. When they do, the mixture ratio >> changes and the ignition and operating voltage goes up until the >> laser will no longer operates. That's what it sounds like is >> happening with your laser. Your's sounds like it's it border line in >> that the PSU firing voltage can make it fire but the operating >> voltage isn't high enough to keep it operating. > >The laser is a Spectra Physics Stabilite model 24B 35mW HeNe laser, and >the power supply is a Spectra Physics Laser Exciter model 255. > >That seems accurate. I've rigged up a 'line conditioner' to give me a >cheap pseudo-variac to change the input voltage to the laser power supply >(the supply is a simple transformer -> rectifier -> capacitor type with a >current regulator stuck on it, here's a PDF I found: >http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/255apsch.pdf > >Does anyone know what the specs are on that transformer (eg rated output >voltage), and how far I can (fairly-safely) run it above its rated input >voltage? Specifically, it'd be nice to know an upper limit so I don't >explode the HV caps or diodes. > >> Further you can't just use a resistor as a dummy load. The laser >> tube is similar to neon and floresent lights in that it has a >> negative resistance. That is it has a certain amount of resistance >> until it fires and then the resistance decreases dramaticly. You >> have to use a ballast with such devices or else the current will >> increase drasticly and almost instantly burn out the device. The >> ignition voltage will be on the order of 20,000 volts but the >> operating voltage will be roughly 12,000 to 14,000 volts. > >By looking at the schematic I linked above, it looks to run at a lower >voltage than that, but it's hard to tell without a HV meter or knowing >what the tranformer is outputting. > >> Be careful using a scope around these things. It probably isn't made >> to handle nearly the kind of voltages involved in the laser. You >> need a good high voltage probe for checking these things. You can >> use one made for TV repair. They're fairly easy to find and are >> reasonably priced. > >I wasn't going to scope the HV side, and since there is no LV side of the >power supply, I'm just not going to bother looking at it with a scope. >Besides, it's a simple enough circuit to troubleshoot with a HV meter. > >> If you send me the brand and model tube I may be able to tell you if >> it's a soft sealed tube and other details. >> >> Joe >> >> At 04:38 PM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >> >I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the >> >hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the >> >list... >> > >> >I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next >> >to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes) >> >blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the >> >sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt >> >after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem >> >with the power supply. >> > >> >Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying >> >to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a >> >general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning >> >off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube >> >has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm >> >resistor be a good idea? >> > >> >Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got >> >an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no >> >'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear. >> > >> >I'm just looking for general guidelines. >> > >> >Thanks! > > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > >http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif > > >> > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Nov 7 13:43:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Whatever. You're still a dick. > (Note for foreign dialects: dick = penis; similar to an asshole but more > obnoxious and not worth the time to write out the extra letters.) Has anybody heard from Ehrlacher? From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Nov 7 13:53:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211071853.gA7Ir1g04037@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021107145227.00b08e78@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Steve Jones may have mentioned these words: [snip] >The Panasonic stuff seems to be the friendliest... ... and the easiest to hack. If you've got a smaller Panasonic pbx w/voicemail, put a 6-7 digit passcode on it, or your long distance bill might inflate quicker than you think! Me, my 3Com ISDN Officeconnect hub/router combo works fine for me! Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 7 14:30:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) References: Message-ID: <001f01c2869c$d2e2e320$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Can anyone rescue them? I'll offer my time to go get it and storage space for low rates for a well reasoned request but I am not the person to keep this system for more than, say, 6 weeks. It's a decent trip - pay up front. John A. in NY From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Nov 7 14:41:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BD3@deathstar.arielnet.com> Anyone have any documentation on these units as far as What to do when the fail lights come on? John Perkins Willis Software Engineer/Database Architect Ariel Technologies (505) 524-6860 jwillis@arielusa.com From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 7 14:44:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VAX and Alpha K/V/M cables. References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF4D@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <20021107070409.G2213@bd.local> <20021107155052.GA9122@jwales.EINTR.net> Message-ID: <004b01c2869e$bedffbe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I'm looking to cable up an Alpha 3000/300 I just picked up and am checking on the DEC cable to do so. There are many: BC(C03,13B,18P,19S,23K) Do they all have the same pinouts at the D15 side? sim.: Is a mV2000, vS3100 cable OK on an Alpha? John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Nov 7 15:16:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VAX and Alpha K/V/M cables. In-Reply-To: <004b01c2869e$bedffbe0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking to cable up an Alpha 3000/300 I just picked > up and am checking on the DEC cable to do so. > There are many: BC(C03,13B,18P,19S,23K) > > Do they all have the same pinouts at the D15 side? > sim.: Is a mV2000, vS3100 cable OK on an Alpha? > > John A. > > I dont think they are the same. What you want is the DEC 3000/DECStation 5000 cable, D15 on one end, minidin mouse and RJ KB connector on other, no video... 17-02640-01 is the PN on the long one... (I have _many_ if you need one) Peter Wallace From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Nov 7 15:43:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU In-Reply-To: "John Willis" "875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU" (Nov 7, 13:43) References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BD3@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <10211072145.ZM25698@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 7, 13:43, John Willis wrote: > Anyone have any documentation on these units as far as > What to do when the fail lights come on? The Field Maintenance print sets for the PSUs and the power controller are available at http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (part of the DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society). They are BIG files. If an 875 power controller is like an 876, then if the lights don't come on, reset your breaker :-) I don't know about the H7104's (I've never seen one up close). I assume there is something plugged into the 3-pin Power Bus connector, or you have the three-way switch in the "local" position, otherwise it won't turn on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 16:38:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Paging AntionioC... Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C53E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> pse drop me an email, I lost yours! --fred From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Nov 7 17:20:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BD7@deathstar.arielnet.com> The lights do come on, it's just that the ones that come on are (o) = lit, ( ) = not lit ( ) Power OK ( ) Over Voltage (o) Over Current (o) +2.5V Fail ( ) +5V Fail (o) Reg Fail ( ) Over Temp (o) Power Have the printsets now, will probably take both units apart for Inspection and cleaning. John -----Original Message----- From: Peter Turnbull [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU On Nov 7, 13:43, John Willis wrote: > Anyone have any documentation on these units as far as > What to do when the fail lights come on? The Field Maintenance print sets for the PSUs and the power controller are available at http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (part of the DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society). They are BIG files. If an 875 power controller is like an 876, then if the lights don't come on, reset your breaker :-) I don't know about the H7104's (I've never seen one up close). I assume there is something plugged into the 3-pin Power Bus connector, or you have the three-way switch in the "local" position, otherwise it won't turn on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 17:26:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: [OT] Licenses? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C546@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi All, Although I am aware of the (VMS) Hobbyist License (which I still dont have, GRRRRR) which provides licenses (PAKs) for VMS and its layered thingies, I have a question regarding this. Over time, I have accumulated a fair number of official DEC PAK's for various of their software systems. Most of these were part of deals where I got or bought some company's complete systems room inventory, so, systems, periphs, media, manuals and licenses (lock, stock & barrel is the expression, imsmr). Now.. are these licenses still valid? I can't find any date expiration and/or software version limitation info on the PAK sheets, so, would assume they're still valid... I'm asking, because I want to provide a login services to a VMS, Ultrix and RSX host for some of my customers, to basically "host" their application for them. Kinda ASP-ish, old style ;-) Obviously, this would _not_ be for th Hobbyist License, soo.. licenses needed. I can get a customer's RSX11MPlus license, because I will terminate his machine (for him ;-) and move the contents over to mine. The VMS and Ultrix licenses I already have, but, again, they don't have my company's name on them. Does anyone know? Thanks, Fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 17:28:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C547@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> John, "Over Current"- smells like a load-level short. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: John Willis [mailto:jwillis@arielusa.com] > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:22 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > > The lights do come on, it's just that the ones that come on are > > (o) = lit, ( ) = not lit > > ( ) Power OK > ( ) Over Voltage > (o) Over Current > (o) +2.5V Fail > ( ) +5V Fail > (o) Reg Fail > ( ) Over Temp > > (o) Power > > Have the printsets now, will probably take both units apart for > Inspection and cleaning. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Turnbull [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > > On Nov 7, 13:43, John Willis wrote: > > Anyone have any documentation on these units as far as > > What to do when the fail lights come on? > > The Field Maintenance print sets for the PSUs and the power controller > are available at > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm (part > of the DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society). They are > BIG files. > > If an 875 power controller is like an 876, then if the lights > don't come > on, reset your breaker :-) > > I don't know about the H7104's (I've never seen one up > close). I assume > there is something plugged into the 3-pin Power Bus connector, or you > have the three-way switch in the "local" position, otherwise it won't > turn on. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From dancohoe at oxford.net Thu Nov 7 17:33:00 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c286b6$9243ec50$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> They will be saved from the scrapper! Details to follow after the weekend. Dan Cohoe > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:00 AM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > (fwd) > > > > See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General > Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. > > Can anyone rescue them? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 > From: Christian Fandt > To: Sellam Ismail > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > Hey Sellam! > > Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to > ask you to pass > this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should > _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! > This is short > notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address > through the Rescue > List or maybe a web search, or ? > > East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten > miles southeast > of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. > > Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, > later in the > Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. > > -Chris > > > NNNN > > -- -- > > >From: "Eric Kotz" > >To: > >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 > >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > > tests=none > > version=2.31 > >X-Spam-Level: > > > >Hello, > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. > Where my dad > >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts > machines are > >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General > hardware-I'm > >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > >disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they > are still here > >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still > must be more > >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from > you). If you have > >any interest, or know > >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at > 585-758-3274 > > > >Thanks, > >Eric Kotz > >eric@erickotz.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security > purposes. Any attempt > >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > > From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Nov 7 17:36:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8BD8@deathstar.arielnet.com> Load-level? As in on the backplane? -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen [mailto:Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:29 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU John, "Over Current"- smells like a load-level short. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: John Willis [mailto:jwillis@arielusa.com] > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:22 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > > The lights do come on, it's just that the ones that come on are > > (o) = lit, ( ) = not lit > > ( ) Power OK > ( ) Over Voltage > (o) Over Current > (o) +2.5V Fail > ( ) +5V Fail > (o) Reg Fail > ( ) Over Temp > > (o) Power > > Have the printsets now, will probably take both units apart for > Inspection and cleaning. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Turnbull [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > > On Nov 7, 13:43, John Willis wrote: > > Anyone have any documentation on these units as far as > > What to do when the fail lights come on? > > The Field Maintenance print sets for the PSUs and the power controller > are available at http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm > (part of the DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society). They are > BIG files. > > If an 875 power controller is like an 876, then if the lights > don't come > on, reset your breaker :-) > > I don't know about the H7104's (I've never seen one up > close). I assume > there is something plugged into the 3-pin Power Bus connector, or you > have the three-way switch in the "local" position, otherwise it won't > turn on. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 17:48:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C54A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Yes. Or in the "final" part of the PSI itself. Because it is shorting, the load of the PSU, it's killing the regulators. Or, such is my guess.. --f From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Nov 7 18:15:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU" (Nov 8, 0:50) References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C54A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <10211080017.ZM25786@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 8, 0:50, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Yes. Or in the "final" part of the PSI itself. Because it > is shorting, the load of the PSU, it's killing the regulators. > Or, such is my guess.. I'd agree. I don't know if the regulators are like those in -11's, but if they are, and can run safely for a short time without load, I'd try it with all the boards removed. Anyone know if this is safe? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From davebarnes at adelphia.net Thu Nov 7 18:27:01 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3DCB05B0.6D3EE521@adelphia.net> geez... thats about 5 minutes from me!!!! but alas, I have an apt and no place to store them... Sellam Ismail wrote: > See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General > Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. > > Can anyone rescue them? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 > From: Christian Fandt > To: Sellam Ismail > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > Hey Sellam! > > Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to ask you to pass > this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should > _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! This is short > notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address through the Rescue > List or maybe a web search, or ? > > East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten miles southeast > of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. > > Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, later in the > Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. > > -Chris > > NNNN > > -- -- > > >From: "Eric Kotz" > >To: > >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 > >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > > tests=none > > version=2.31 > >X-Spam-Level: > > > >Hello, > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > >disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from you). If you have > >any interest, or know > >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > > >Thanks, > >Eric Kotz > >eric@erickotz.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Nov 7 18:40:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6DF@deathstar.arielnet.com> This is very interesting. Removing everything from the backplane results in only the REG FAIL light coming on. No more +5V FAIL or +2.5 FAIL. Any ideas? -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen Sent: Thu 11/7/2002 4:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Yes. Or in the "final" part of the PSI itself. Because it is shorting, the load of the PSU, it's killing the regulators. Or, such is my guess.. --f -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2751 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021107/0b941447/attachment.bin From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 18:49:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C54D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> OK... so your backplane is hosed. Do you have a dummy load to "load" the PSU with? It probably complains about it not having a load to work with, hence the REG fail....methinks your PSU is fine, just not the backplane or its power harness. Remember that cable harness insulation plastic rots... as well :) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: John Willis [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John > Willis > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 1:43 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > > This is very interesting. Removing everything from the > backplane results > in only the REG FAIL light coming on. No more +5V FAIL or +2.5 FAIL. > > Any ideas? > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: Thu 11/7/2002 4:50 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: RE: 875 Power Controller/H7104C 2.5VDC > PSU/H7104D 5VDC PSU > > Yes. Or in the "final" part of the PSI itself. Because it > is shorting, the load of the PSU, it's killing the regulators. > Or, such is my guess.. > > --f > > From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 7 18:53:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VAX and Alpha K/V/M cables. References: <200211072219.OAA15167@opihi.ucsd.edu> <018a01c286c0$b2436800$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01ed01c286c1$8677bf40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > 1) I think you mean D9. K/V/M here means keyboard/video/mouse. In this case (there's video on a 3w3) it is more a K/M. The D15 (yup) looks like the KVM's used elsewhere (vaxStations), hence this new question. > 3) This subject was discussed here at great > length not more than a week or two ago. Nope, I wouldn't want to start that one again. John A. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Nov 7 19:20:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VAXvector seen on epay... Message-ID: <049601c286c4$dad3a290$67469280@george> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068622725 says it all. No connection to seller... Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 7 19:38:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: VAXvector seen on epay... In-Reply-To: <049601c286c4$dad3a290$67469280@george> Message-ID: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068622725 says it all. > >No connection to seller... > >Bob OK, It's obviously not a typo since the badge says VAXvector. So, what is it? A VAX 6000-520 with a Vector Array processor? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jlcollado at bigfoot.com Thu Nov 7 19:49:02 2002 From: jlcollado at bigfoot.com (Jose Luis Collado) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:44 2005 Subject: Hitachi HM6116 Datasheet Message-ID: <3DC5C0C0.1020806@bigfoot.com> Andreas, searching the web for the HM6116P-4 2Kx8 SRAM dataseet, I found an emial in a message board form you stating that you had the 1982 Hitachi Memory Databook. Could you send me the datasheet ? I would really appreciate it. Regards, Eng. Jose Luis Collado Buenos Aires, Argentina. From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 7 19:50:43 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Best version of AIX for my RS6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll bet that your 4381 will be significantly faster than a P/390. Plus, he really should be running AIX 4.2.1 or 4.1.5 with that P/390. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > OK, I'm *jealous*... S/390 card for anything = drool... Um, I have a 4381... > Sure your S/390 is faster, etc. but my S/370XA could crush it flat ;p > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp > From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 7 19:52:12 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EB@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: What about being crushed by a PDP-11/70? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Agreed, I don't think it would be good if we were to have a > > list member killed by a classic computer... Directly or > > indirectly... > Well, I'd rather be zapped by an PDP-11/70 than a stray bullet > from some *hole "out there"..... just a thought :) > > Stone would read: "Here lies Fred, powered by PDP-11/70.. he couldnt > take the power..." :) > > --f > From stationmaster at ozemail.com.au Thu Nov 7 19:53:43 2002 From: stationmaster at ozemail.com.au (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: This weeks finds Message-ID: <000301c28456$1fe43aa0$23a154d2@bnrj41s> Regarding the Wang WLTC Laptop, I have one in original condition which I boot up every week, however I need information regarding the operation of the computer, especially running dos programs, can you help. Robin at Crystal Brook. My Email: stationmaster@ozemail.com.au News http://mysite.freeserve.com/SAussieRailNews/ Dirtcircuit : http://www.trainweb.org/mystation/hotrod.htm History of Steam: http://au.geocities.com/comptroller_pboro/ C.Brook: http://au.geocities.com/comptroller_pboro/CrystalBrook.htm My Main Site: http://www.trainweb.org/mystation SteamTown ; http://www.trainweb.org/mystation/steamtown.htm ( 4 Sale) From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Nov 7 19:55:10 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c2847a$d25a6050$01000001@cvendel> I Agree, I never thought it fair the whole Apple-DRI lawsuit seeing as GEM was already being shown in late 83' and the fact that as you stated, the Finder (actually going farther back, the Lisa Office) were right from examination of the Xerox GUI, Win 1.0 was a total joke and Win 2.0 was still a giggle and yes, its strange how Atari's TOS (CP/M68 & GEM) was left alone. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:40 PM Subject: Xerox Parc > Something that I have always wondered about is why Xerox never sued > Jobs ass off for the Mac GUI and also MSWindows which was derrived from > Xerox's 'Small-Talk". They were a major corporation and Apple was quick > enough to disembowel DRI's GEM altho Sam's Atari ST still continued to use > an updated version of the original. MS has also litigated any threat to their > bullying dominance and despite the protestations of the C-64 fans GEOS > (any coincidence there) is obviously a clone of the GEM desktop. The mouse > was also developed at Palo Alto. I have trouble simply accepting that a major > corporation like XEROX was simply a stupid wimp. From all evidence I've > seen Xerox invented the GUI. Something more important than CP/M, > MSDOS, or UNIX. What am I missing here. > > Lawrence > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > From wonko at ns2.tspcfast.net Thu Nov 7 19:56:42 2002 From: wonko at ns2.tspcfast.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 In-Reply-To: <20021105060338.91870.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:03:38PM -0800 References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <20021105060338.91870.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021105033714.L24667@ns2.tspcfast.net> On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:03:38PM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > When I was a teenager, I dragged an empty H960 rack upstairs, by > myself, by standing in it (through the hole in the bottom) and hoisting > it up one stair at a time and repositioning my feet. Nearly ended > up at the bottom of the stairs twice. when i moved out of my last house, i had a DEC 6' rack in the second floor where the computer room was. when i moved out, my brother and i had to get it down the stairs. the plan was, that we were going to hump it down a step at a time. him at the top, and me at the bottom. after going down the first step, instead of stopping on the next step down, it kept going. it hit me so hard it threw me backwards (which is what kept it from sliding over me i think) and slid down the stairs with me in front of it backpeddling like mad. when i got to the bottom i was pinned to the wall with my butt stuck through the drywall and against the brick outter wall, and the rack resting against my knees with my one foot under it. i got REAL lucky, as i was not seriously injured. my foot was sore, as were my knees, but no damage. the worst i got were a pair of scars on the inside of each of my arms from the very sharp wire guide that is on the back of those racks at the bottom. adrenalin being what it is, the first words out of my mouth were, "Well, *that* didn't go as planned." ;) > I learned my lesson after that... so did i. i moved into a single floor house. ;) -brian From setala at elisa.fi Thu Nov 7 19:58:09 2002 From: setala at elisa.fi (Saku Setala) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Honeywell VIP (was Re: cctech digest, Vol 1 #191 - 35 msgs) In-Reply-To: <3DC41F24.3090502@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Hi, I have a DPS-6/10 on my collection. Got it in mid-80's, was using it as a BBS with my friends for a while. Learned GCOS a little, but now I've forgot everything.. Last time powered it up two years ago, it was still working but reported random memory errors before warming up. Once I was offered a large DPS-6 but sadly didn't have any space to store it at that time. On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Michael Davidson wrote: > > Anyone else ever use a Level 6? > Saku Set?l? Finland From mike at otterway.com Thu Nov 7 19:59:47 2002 From: mike at otterway.com (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Interface Age Prime-Number Benchmark Program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I ran across this today, was wondering if anyone knows when it was published, has a copy of the article, etc. I've been told there was a listing that showed how long it took on various ALTAIR era systems. I've peeked around the web abit without finding anything about it... 100 PRINT "Interface Age Prime-Number Benchmark Program" 110 FOR N=1 TO 1000 120 FOR K=2 TO 500 130 M=N/K 140 L=INT(M) 150 IF L=0 THEN 200 160 IF L=1 THEN 190 170 IF M>L THEN 190 180 IF M=L THEN 210 190 NEXT K 200 PRINT N 210 NEXT N 220 PRINT 230 PRINT 240 PRINT "Done" 250 END From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 20:01:15 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV In-Reply-To: <0e4b01c28466$9c9b0190$6401a8c0@NECROMANCER> Message-ID: A heads up: I will be appearing on TechTV this Thursday, November 7, between the hours of 4:00p and 5:30p. I don't know the name of the program or the exact time (I'll be finding out tomorrow) but this at least gives you advance warning if you want to catch it. I'll be bringing along some interesting old computer thingies to show. If you want to suggest a personal favorite let me know ;) TechTV is usually in the premium cable TV line-up, so you may not be able to see the program if you don't have every stupid channel that your local cable TV operator offers. More info tomorrow. Also, my domain name situation seems to have been ironed out. I can once again receive e-mail (the website has been back for about a day and a half now; I don't know why e-mail took longer). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From slavko.v at sezampro.yu Thu Nov 7 20:02:50 2002 From: slavko.v at sezampro.yu (Slavko Vukelic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: DDS-2 drive errors on Microvax 3100, VMS 7.3 Message-ID: <003801c2859c$d4c778f0$ebbc6ac2@global11> Did you resolve your problem ? I have very similar problem with tape and hdd-s. Any suggestions form you ? Thanks in advance ! S.Vukelic -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021107/ac86ac37/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 7 20:05:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <149507056278.20021107200156@subatomix.com> On Thursday, November 7, 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Whatever. You're still a dick. > > (Note for foreign dialects: dick = penis; similar to an asshole but more > > obnoxious and not worth the time to write out the extra letters.) > > Has anybody heard from Ehrlacher? Man! Now I'm going to send you a bill for cleaning the Dr. Pepper off my monitor and keyboard! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 7 20:06:27 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <120506941573.20021107200002@subatomix.com> On Thursday, November 7, 2002, Mail List wrote: > Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price > with FREE shipping!!! If not, I might just rather wait until they are on > eBay. It seems odd that a reseller like yourself, charging exhorbitant prices for things that ClassicCmpers like, would ask the above questions, even in satire. How ironic. How asinine. In another email, Mail List wrote: > If the valuation data is based solely or primarily on eBay data and/or > hobbyist opinion, then it would be failing to acknowledge a serious > segment of the market, ie the commercial market in "out of production", > "end of life" computer components. Ah: your real motive! So you are scared that this book may educate people, and then those people may be less willing to pay the high prices you demand. It's all about money, isn't it? One has to wonder why you are subscribed to this list. Maybe it is to have access to equipment-available announcements in the hope that you can get there first and resell for serious green. Maybe I would think of that as exploitation. Maybe others here would think so as well. I'm with Sellam on this one. -- Jeffrey Sharp From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Nov 7 20:07:54 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <33075.64.169.63.74.1036569963.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> Message-ID: <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> On 6 Nov 2002, at 0:06, Eric Smith wrote: > Jobs cut a deal with them where they were allowed to invest some money > in Apple in exchange for showing Apple what they were doing and allowing > Apple to use some of the concepts. Also, Apple was a Smalltalk licensee. > AFAICT, Xerox didn't have any grounds to "sue Jobs ass off". Though > many years later, they tried to do it, and the Judge threw the case out. > Also, IIRC, the Mac team was working with only a visual knowledge of the Alto's GUI.... Jef Raskin (I think) developed ways to render the hidden parts of windows that even blew away the PARC people, since they'd been trying to figure it out for years. Raskin simply didn't know that it couldn't be done, so he just did it. And yes, in exchange for Apple's deal with Xerox, Apple was allowed to tour PARC, at which point the lightbulb came on over Jobs' head and he realized that this was the future of personal computing. PARC was really the birthplace of most of what we take for granted in personal computing today. There was a lot of early theories and experimentation, but the Alto system really made it all come together. Bob Metcalfe's team invented ethernet, and left to form 3com. John Warnock's and Chuck Geschke's team developed Postscript, and they left to form Adobe. The mouse was actually invented by Doug Englebart years earlier at SRI, but adopted and developed further by PARC. WYSIWYG word processing was developed there as well, and the developer was hired away by Microsoft to develop Word (oddly enough, he had to dumb it down to work on the command-line-only MS-DOS....) PARC also developed such things as object-oriented programming, browseable and resizeable windows, and the laser printer, which was really the only thing they profited from out of all those inventions. Xerox was basically a company run by copier guys, and while they started PARC and told the members to invent really cool stuff, they didn't have a clue what to do with it when it was done. So, the guys who invented it got frustrated and left to form their own companies. The Alto II, the commercial version of the in-house Alto network, was way too expensive to be commercially viable. The first computer "worm" was also invented at PARC, simply as an experiment by two of PARC's scientists to see what it could do, whether that's a good thing or not. Also keep in mind that the majority of the Alto/Star system was developed by the end of 1973.....and also, they had developed a color laser copier during that time as well. When I was in high school, a older guy in my town found out that I was into electronics and computers, so he invited me over to give me a bunch of books and parts that he no longer needed. He also told me that his son worked for Xerox, and pulled out an envelope containing several color copies to show me what he'd been working on. At the time I thought it was cool, but it wasn't until recently that I realized just how amazing that actually was.... and that was back in 1977 or so. All in all, PARC is a classic example of what happens when a group of brilliant scientists has to answer to a larger group of suits and bean counters. Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@laidbak.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 20:09:20 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV Screen Savers (4:00-5:30pm) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I will be appearing within the first half hour of the TechTV program Screen Savers tomorrow (Thursday, November 7). I will be bringing along a slew of classic computer and video game systems. There will also be a web component that will feature other machines from my collection on their website. http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vernon_wright at hotmail.com Thu Nov 7 20:10:47 2002 From: vernon_wright at hotmail.com (Vernon Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Molecular Computers Message-ID: Sorry to just barge in - I'm an old S100-CP/M type who wishes he had the time to spend here - but I don't. I do have 3 Molecular servers with 20meg hard drives and tape backup, and plenty of interface boards. I had intended some years ago to put them in a 'senior citizens' complex as a LAN but time and technology made the project implausible. These must go - RSN. For sale REASONABLE, or amusing trade. I'm in San Diego - and yes, Don Maslin has declined. Vern Wright vernon_wright@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 7 20:12:15 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Then all you have to do is hook up a composite mono monitor (I refuse to > believe there are classic computer enthusiasts who don't have one of > these) and you're in business. *raises hand* I do not have a composite mono monitor. 8-) Peace... Sridhar P.S. But I have *plenty* of LK201's. From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 7 20:13:42 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype In-Reply-To: <200211061447.JAA24027@wordstock.com> Message-ID: My first choice would be New York and my second would be Providence. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Chandra Bajpai spake: > > > > I'll vote the same as Megan, with a slight bias towards Boston. Since > > it's closer I could help with some logistics if necessary. > > > > -Chandra > > > > My first choice is the Boston area and my second choice is Providence. > > I would like to volunteer as well. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Nov 7 20:15:08 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Who's got a Heathkit ES-400 or HS-1 Message-ID: John Lawson and I were wondering a short while back, how many Heathkit ES-400 analog computers are known to still exist in the world? It's basically the big fat brother of the EC-1. Here's a picture: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/P0758.JPG This one was exhibited by John at VCF 3.0 but is now owned by our good friend Hans and is residing in Munich. There is another in the Computer History Museum's collection. And I have just a front panel to one that I acquired several years back. So how many other people have one of these? And what is the correct model number? I've always known it as the EC-400, but Doug Coward's website says it's correct model is ES-400, but then someone just came to me and said he has a Heathkit catalog listing it as the HS-1. So I'm sure it's either the ES-400 or HS-1, or perhaps both. Anyway, are there any others floating around? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cvendel at att.net Thu Nov 7 20:16:34 2002 From: cvendel at att.net (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction References: Message-ID: <001401c2867a$1e42c6a0$0c00a8c0@starship1> I think I saw a much smaller unit on Ebay a while back for $5,000 Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "JP Hindin" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction > > > > A Cray T3-D supercomputer is up for auction by the gov't. It is located in > > Rhode Island and if you want to inspect it prior to the sale, you have to submit > > your request by Friday. Offers are due by November 22. Details at: > > http://www.govliquidation.com/specialPromotion/cray.html > > Just out of general curiosity, what do Crays resale for these days in > general? > I'm safe in the knowledge that there's probably no way in hell I could > afford one (My wife lets out a sigh of relief), but I'd be curious to know > what they're really "worth"...? > > JP > > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Nov 7 20:18:10 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C54E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> ouch ! > -----Original Message----- > From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:32 AM > To: Fred N. van Kempen > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 > > > > What about being crushed by a PDP-11/70? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Agreed, I don't think it would be good if we were to have a > > > list member killed by a classic computer... Directly or > > > indirectly... > > Well, I'd rather be zapped by an PDP-11/70 than a stray bullet > > from some *hole "out there"..... just a thought :) > > > > Stone would read: "Here lies Fred, powered by PDP-11/70.. he couldnt > > take the power..." :) > > > > --f > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 7 20:20:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: SPARCbook and other finds Today Message-ID: <019f01c286cc$196d5080$a1000240@oemcomputer> Today I got 2 Tadpole Sparcbook laptops ( one is good for parts only and neither had a battery); a Sun Sparcstation IPC; a Compaq docking station with the cdrom drive still in it (I have looking for one of these drives for my Compaq laptop that I got from a thrift some time back); 2-IBM 4224 printers; digital LA310 printer; a Sun optical mousepad; and several other items all for $19. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Nov 7 20:21:26 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV Message-ID: >I will be appearing on TechTV this Thursday, November 7, between the hours >of 4:00p and 5:30p. I don't know the name of the program or the exact >time (I'll be finding out tomorrow) but this at least gives you advance >warning if you want to catch it. well gee... maybe if I had received this BEFORE 9:15 on the 7th I could have taped it and dumped to MPEG for everyone. Any idea yet what the name of the show is? TechTV tends to repeat the daytime stuff during the later hours. Maybe it will be shown again later tonight. -chris From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Nov 7 20:23:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction References: <007601c285a3$7d4088e0$017b1581@theredpill> <20021107053301.GC96818@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <00ea01c28626$42423670$05247452@newhare> <001301c28629$07bcf3c0$633acd18@D73KSM11> <000e01c28669$4abca400$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3DCB2053.4000206@eoni.com> Google T3D and you'll find out that it's a massive multiple processor (64 Alphas) that requires a C90 front end. At 10 mflops it's not even terribly fast any longer... $500 will probably buy it. (Based on selling million dollar machining centers for a government contractor.) Jim Curt Vendel wrote: > Too bad it needs 440v 3phase and also requires the cooling unit, how cool > would that be to have setup at VCF-East 2.0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 7 20:32:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? Message-ID: <01b301c286cf$4bea1720$a1000240@oemcomputer> Tonight I saw (and taped) Sellam on the TechTV Screen Savers program showing off some of his collection. Real cool way to go Sellam. :-) From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Nov 7 21:03:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > > > One of my friends has some kind of AT&T Merlin phone system in his > > house. He thinks everybody else is missing something. > > Merlin's suck. I've got a full-blown miniature central office in my > house. The eOn (formerly Cortelco) Millennium could easily act as a > central office for a small neighborhood. It has all the features of a > regular telephone exchange and is completely programmable, and fits on > my closet shelf. I currently have 80 ports and a T-1 stuffed into mine > though I'm only really using about 20 (4 lines, voicemail/auto-attendant > and about 8 extensions scattered throughout the house). Once I get the > T-1 clock board for it I'll be using that as my link to the voicemail > system for clean and seamless call transfers. Does it support standard analog lines like one would use for modems? How about pulse dialing? This sounds like what I should look into for my systems. Where would a similar system be found, and would would the costs be like? I suspect the only way I could afford such a system will be surplus/auction/resale, but maybe not... > I am UberGeek. I think we all know that by now ;P -Toth From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Nov 7 21:12:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: SPARCbook and other finds Today References: <019f01c286cc$196d5080$a1000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <04dc01c286d4$f8e23c00$67469280@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: SPARCbook and other finds Today > Today I got 2 Tadpole Sparcbook laptops ( one is good for parts only and > neither had a battery); a Sun Sparcstation IPC; a Compaq docking station > with the cdrom drive still in it (I have looking for one of these drives for > my Compaq laptop that I got from a thrift some time back); 2-IBM 4224 > printers; digital LA310 printer; a Sun optical mousepad; and several other > items all for $19. SPARCbook2 or 3? There's a SPARCbook mailing list at sunhelp.org. It seems to be populated mainly by SB3 owners, but there is at least one employee of Tadpole UK who answers questions. Bob From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Nov 7 21:15:00 2002 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:57:24 -0600 . <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> Message-ID: In message <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost>, nerdware@ctgonline.org writes: >All in all, PARC is a classic example of what happens when a >group of brilliant scientists has to answer to a larger group of suits >and bean counters. Except that in today's environment, the suits and bean counters either don't provide a place for the group of brilliant scientists to assemble or they constrain the work to only those projects that have a high ROI. Imagine an environment where you can't get the money to deploy an experimental system until you can demonstrate that it will pay for itself in less than 3 years. Of course, you have to take into account the goobers who cut all of your revenue estimates in half. Sorry to drift OT, but I've been increasingly worried that the business world has been selling it's future to raise this quarter's stock price. Brian L. Stuart From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 7 21:21:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: SPARCbook model References: <019f01c286cc$196d5080$a1000240@oemcomputer> <04dc01c286d4$f8e23c00$67469280@george> Message-ID: <023001c286d6$3a5b71f0$a1000240@oemcomputer> Both are S1 models. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert F. Schaefer" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:14 PM Subject: Re: SPARCbook and other finds Today > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:10 PM > Subject: SPARCbook and other finds Today > > > > Today I got 2 Tadpole Sparcbook laptops ( one is good for parts only and > > neither had a battery); a Sun Sparcstation IPC; a Compaq docking station > > with the cdrom drive still in it (I have looking for one of these drives > for > > my Compaq laptop that I got from a thrift some time back); 2-IBM 4224 > > printers; digital LA310 printer; a Sun optical mousepad; and several other > > items all for $19. > > SPARCbook2 or 3? There's a SPARCbook mailing list at sunhelp.org. It seems > to be populated mainly by SB3 owners, but there is at least one employee of > Tadpole UK who answers questions. > > Bob > > > From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Thu Nov 7 21:42:14 2002 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype In-Reply-To: <200211060108.UAA75551586@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200211060108.UAA75551586@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: Megan writes: > Since today is a voting day, my votes are for > > (1) Providence > (2) Boston > > Because of some personal bad experiences with New York, I would > have to vote against it. Anywhere down to Connecticut and I I love NYC, but it is a bitch of a place to do a show. Union hassles, everything is expensive (one of the things I like about not living in nyc anymore is that everything is cheap... a hamburger for less than $8-$14, what a bargain!) parking and loading are often problematic... etc etc. I would have to say that boston or providence would indeed be a better site. Boston is a more populous place and might have a better attendee draw, but I don't know how exhibitors would stack up. How big is one of these? (in sq ft of exhibit space and door count) Is a hotel a viable location, or do they cost too much and not have enough power? From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Nov 7 22:12:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV Message-ID: <200211080414.XAA75272162@shell.TheWorld.com> I actually caught the show as it aired, and started up the tape recorder in time for the segment... I'll see if I can dump it to a file... Nice job, Sellam... my only comment is the fact that you didn't mention the community of collectors out here, or the fact that we all exchange info... Megan From spc at conman.org Thu Nov 7 22:29:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> from "nerdware@ctgonline.org" at Nov 06, 2002 10:57:24 AM Message-ID: <200211080431.XAA04295@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great nerdware@ctgonline.org once stated: > > On 6 Nov 2002, at 0:06, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Jobs cut a deal with them where they were allowed to invest some money > > in Apple in exchange for showing Apple what they were doing and allowing > > Apple to use some of the concepts. Also, Apple was a Smalltalk licensee. > > AFAICT, Xerox didn't have any grounds to "sue Jobs ass off". Though > > many years later, they tried to do it, and the Judge threw the case out. > > > > Also, IIRC, the Mac team was working with only a visual knowledge > of the Alto's GUI.... Jef Raskin (I think) developed ways to render > the hidden parts of windows that even blew away the PARC people, > since they'd been trying to figure it out for years. Raskin simply > didn't know that it couldn't be done, so he just did it. It wasn't Raskin but another engineer (Atkinson perhaps?) Raskin had formed the initial Macintosh team and was (if I recall correctly) designing a text based computer around the 6809 (or perhaps a graphical one but I know for a fact he didn't care for mice at all and prefered all operations be done via keyboard). The Apple board at the time were tired of Steve Jobs poking his nose into the business so they "gave" Jobs the Macintosh project where he proceeded to make changes to Raskin's design. Raskin soon left afterwards. The engineer in question had been on the tour of Xerox PARC and had thought that the engineers there (at PARC) *had* overlapping windows and proceeded to reverse engineer their design. It was only *after* the Apple engineer had it working did he find out that PARC engineers never implemented overlapping windows (and I think they were still trying to figure out how to do that). -spc (At least, that's how I heard it) From foxnhare at bigvalley.net Thu Nov 7 22:36:01 2002 From: foxnhare at bigvalley.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? References: <20021108030301.6973.92503.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DCB3F4A.E0C1205D@bigvalley.net> Just caught it, very well done (and not just because it had Commodores on it :-), the host was really enthused by the display and said they may have him on again some later date (probably with stuff plugged in next time). He got a chance to show off the Collectible Computers book and a mention or two of VCF. And there's an article on their site, http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3406699,00.html (sure wish I had their bandwidth!) -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Set your 8-bit C= rigs to sail for http://www.portcommodore.com/ 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 7 22:48:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc References: Message-ID: <02d001c286e2$5e7a4f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >...has to answer to a larger group of ...bean counters. FYI the modern term I've heard for this one is "Numbers Nazi's" John A. From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Nov 7 23:03:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? Message-ID: <16b.16c51742.2afca00b@aol.com> Screen Savers replays at 11:30 PM to 1:00 AM PST on the West coast of the US. Paxton Astoria, OR From stevenaleach at mac.com Thu Nov 7 23:13:01 2002 From: stevenaleach at mac.com (Steven Leach) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: Altair, 3 more months. Message-ID: <0BB69380-F2D9-11D6-BC9D-000393A2E26E@mac.com> In approximately 3 months I will be moving from Hawaii back to the mainland and will finally be able to reclaim the computer collection that has been in storage in my parents' barn since 1996 when I left for college. I so hope that the old Altair 8800b is still operational. In highschool I used to use this machine with a 9600 baud modem to call the local BBS, Wrote papers for school in WordStar, played a character-graphics version of Aliens and Pacman.. At the same time, I had a 486 DX4 120 with an SVGA and a monochrome card and monitors (I wrote a tsr that would copy the text contents of the color display onto the mono with one key combination and clear the mono with another, very handy while playing TradeWars 2002 on the local BBS), This machine was always used far more, but the Altair would always get fired up on a regular basis, often for no real reason. The first program I ever wrote on it was in BASIC and just bounced a light back and forth across the front panel display. I can't wait to see the old machine again! The smell of baking dust, the vacuum cleaner roar of the hard drive and the 50's Sci-Fi squeal of the r/w heads moving across the disk, the boxes of 8 inch floppies all bring back so many memories! Anyone else out there with an Altair? Is there anyone actually using a CP/M machine in some productive way? It's sad that even if rats dust and time have not destroyed the beautiful blue machine, I can never really trust storing files on it anymore without backing everything up onto more modern media on my "real" computer (currently an eMac believe it or not.. what a strange trip it's been). From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Nov 7 23:17:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: This weeks finds References: <000301c28456$1fe43aa0$23a154d2@bnrj41s> Message-ID: <01b301c286e6$605553c0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: Re: This weeks finds > Regarding the Wang WLTC Laptop, I have one in original condition which I > boot up every week, however I need information regarding the operation of > the computer, especially running dos programs, can you help. > > Robin at Crystal Brook. !!!!!! Guess what, I'm in Pirie.... Geoff From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Nov 7 23:22:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VCF 5 In-Reply-To: References: <00c001c2836a$5df67480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DCAF639.18042.3CAF57BF@localhost> > On Sun, 3 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > > > Here's a VCF animated "Commercial" from someone named > > "Uncle Rodger" who I don't know is a lister or not, > > discovered while searching Kaypro sites. It's pretty good. > > > > http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/images/vcfban.gif > > This was made by good friend Roger Sinasohn for last year's (cancelled) > VCF 5.0 (you can see by the dates). > > Roger always does awesome favors for me, because Roger is awesome ;) > > I think he's still subscribed here. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Wish he were still posting. I seem to be engulfed with laptops lately. I could certainly use his input. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Nov 7 23:23:30 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VCF5: Nobody got it..! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DCAF639.20963.3CAF57F1@localhost> > > > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > > > >Didn't I say this at the start? Fine, we're all agreed that it would be > >better if I didn't attend a VCF-UK. I've got plenty of other things to > >get one with... > > > >> adult and get along with people as normal folks do. > > > >FWIW, I am not 'normal' and nor do I particularly want to be... > > > >-tony > > Sheesh, if I wanted to be mature and hang with normal people I could > go to church or something. Well I don't know about how "normal" church-goers are. We all remember Jim and Tammy and other religious types. Next to my house is an old Presbyterian church and the maple trees around it are all twisted into strange shapes. I figure it is due to fire and brimstone exhortations and fulminations against the sinful doctrinal failings of the Methodists. I'm certainly not viewed as mature and normal by the local villiagers. What's normal about a computer collector in north-central Canada, hundreds of miles from any urban center. Must be totally "MAD". An aged eccentric at the very least. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Nov 7 23:24:59 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DCAF639.1221.3CAF5774@localhost> ROTFL. A good solid belly-laugh that made my day. Still extracting a few giggles. Lawrence > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Whatever. You're still a dick. > > (Note for foreign dialects: dick = penis; similar to an asshole but more > > obnoxious and not worth the time to write out the extra letters.) > > > Has anybody heard from Ehrlacher? > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Nov 7 23:31:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021107131659.021ec378@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20021108053308.75865.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, I've got a AT&T Merlin II Legend system for sale. It powers up, but I've got no phones for it, so what little checking I did with it didn't indicate the phone section was working. Jim, if you (or anyone else) is interested in buying one of these I can send you the configuration. -- Frank --- Jim Mooney wrote: > Hi, > Can you point to any webistes that have > info about these phone > systems? Do they pop up on eBay? > > Thanks > > Jim > > > > > >I think most of us would be well served by a small > Panasonic or AT&T > >Legend hybrid switch. Many people would be stepping > up with a nice 3x8 > >or 4x12 system. If any of you are wondering, I'm > here to tell you its > >worth it if you like to tinker with phones as well > as computers. > > > >As for me, I've got a nice little Nortel CICS > switch and voice jail > >nailed to the wall in the basement. And soon, very > very soon, callers > >on hold will relax to the mellow strains of Mel > Torme belting out his > >immortal version of "So Happy Together" or Guy > Lombardo's version of > >"Mrs. Robinson," and other aural atrocities... > Follow this link if > >you're more curious than revolted: > www.ultralounge.com (Flash req.) > >or http://www.dblcrown.com/eow1.html for a review. > > > >Far, far afield, I know... > > > > > >Ob. classiccmp: Did anyone here pick up one of the > two VAX 11/725's > >that went on eBay recently? > > > >--Steve. > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From jwillis at arielusa.com Thu Nov 7 23:59:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6E0@deathstar.arielnet.com> FWIW, my 11/750 restoration project now has a page on my site at http://dahmer.vistech.net/~jwillis It is basically a journal format which I will update as I continue working on the system. John From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 00:08:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6E0@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3DCB5510.4010909@internet1.net> John Willis wrote: > FWIW, my 11/750 restoration project now has a page on my site at > > http://dahmer.vistech.net/~jwillis > > It is basically a journal format which I will update as I continue > working on the system. > > John > > I get a 403 Forbidden. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Nov 8 00:10:00 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: CORRECTION: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6E3@deathstar.arielnet.com> CORRECTION: http://dahmer.vistech.net/~jwillis/index.html -----Original Message----- From: John Willis Sent: Thu 11/7/2002 11:01 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project FWIW, my 11/750 restoration project now has a page on my site at http://dahmer.vistech.net/~jwillis It is basically a journal format which I will update as I continue working on the system. John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2535 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021108/3151dd8d/attachment.bin From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Nov 8 00:43:08 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay Message-ID: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> Found on Usenet. The starting bid is a bit high, but perhaps listmembers could pool resources...? I leave it to you to decide. If I were still collecting, I'd chip in a bit myself. Forwarded note follows... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: 26,000 Good DEC Spare Parts on eBay, Item # 2068638523 Complete inventory from jcmparts, guaranteed working and individually packaged. PDP parts( pdp8 11/34 11/44 11/70 etc), VAX parts( 11/780 11/785 VAX 6000 Series Vax 8000 series etc), Terminal parts( VT100 VT320 VT420 etc), Tape and Disk drive parts (RA81 RL02 RA80 etc), printer parts( LA100 LA120 LA36 LA75 LA50 etc) etc. ** If there is no bid over $3,500 for the entire lot, the material will be scrapped out for gold reclamation. ** Hopefully some DEC hobbyist will acquire this rather than see it scrapped! If I had more $$ I'd do it myself. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 00:55:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <200211071747.gA7HlOg03920@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > I think most of us would be well served by a small Panasonic or AT&T > Legend hybrid switch. Many people would be stepping up with a nice 3x8 > or 4x12 system. If any of you are wondering, I'm here to tell you its > worth it if you like to tinker with phones as well as computers. The Panasonic hybrids are nice, if not bizarre with their totally non-standard signaling tones. I had (actually still have, just haven't taken it down from my closet yet) a Panasonic KTX-123211 (12 CO lines, 32 stations) which the Millennium replaced. It's great in that the ports automatically adapt to either basic analog or proprietary phone sets based on what's plugged in when you first power it up. It can also do flash hook transfers and allows feature access using touch tone codes. It's basically a decent low-end PBX. I was able to integrate it with my auto-attendant/voicemail, though it was a tad kludgy. Still, it served me well for years, and it was free, so I had no complaints. (The Millennium was free too :) > As for me, I've got a nice little Nortel CICS switch and voice jail > nailed to the wall in the basement. And soon, very very soon, callers > on hold will relax to the mellow strains of Mel Torme belting out his > immortal version of "So Happy Together" or Guy Lombardo's version of > "Mrs. Robinson," and other aural atrocities... Follow this link if > you're more curious than revolted: www.ultralounge.com (Flash req.) > or http://www.dblcrown.com/eow1.html for a review. I'm planning to someday pipe in either the DMX music from my cable box or a continuous stream of MP3's from my Linux firewall from over the web. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 00:58:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: CORRECTION: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project References: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6E3@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <3DCB60B6.9060607@internet1.net> John Willis wrote: > CORRECTION: > > http://dahmer.vistech.net/~jwillis/index.html Oops, I probably should have been smart enough to figure that out :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 00:59:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021107131659.021ec378@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Jim Mooney wrote: > Can you point to any webistes that have info about these phone > systems? Do they pop up on eBay? The Panasonic hybrids pop up on eBay all the time. Expect to pay anywhere from $250 (if you're lucky) to $750 (for a fully loaded system). I am getting ready to sell mine but am not sure yet. I may need it for a business down the road, but right now it's dormant. I might be willing to let it go for the right price... ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:01:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:45 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021107145227.00b08e78@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >The Panasonic stuff seems to be the friendliest... > > ... and the easiest to hack. If you've got a smaller Panasonic pbx > w/voicemail, put a 6-7 digit passcode on it, or your long distance bill > might inflate quicker than you think! That's only if you have the DISA option installed. This is not a common option. But yes, if you've got it, definitely put a passcode on it. This should only be common sense. > Me, my 3Com ISDN Officeconnect hub/router combo works fine for me! Sounds interesting. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:09:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, chris wrote: > >I will be appearing on TechTV this Thursday, November 7, between the hours > >of 4:00p and 5:30p. I don't know the name of the program or the exact > >time (I'll be finding out tomorrow) but this at least gives you advance > >warning if you want to catch it. > > well gee... maybe if I had received this BEFORE 9:15 on the 7th I could > have taped it and dumped to MPEG for everyone. Blame it on the person respobsible for moderating messages from non-subsribers :) (I sent the message from my main VCF account which is not subscribed). > Any idea yet what the name of the show is? TechTV tends to repeat the > daytime stuff during the later hours. Maybe it will be shown again later > tonight. Sorry, it was Screen Savers. You should be able to catch a re-run in the next few days or so. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:13:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: BBSs & PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > Merlin's suck. I've got a full-blown miniature central office in my > > house. The eOn (formerly Cortelco) Millennium could easily act as a > > central office for a small neighborhood. It has all the features of a > > regular telephone exchange and is completely programmable, and fits on > > my closet shelf. I currently have 80 ports and a T-1 stuffed into mine > > though I'm only really using about 20 (4 lines, voicemail/auto-attendant > > and about 8 extensions scattered throughout the house). Once I get the > > T-1 clock board for it I'll be using that as my link to the voicemail > > system for clean and seamless call transfers. > > Does it support standard analog lines like one would use for modems? How > about pulse dialing? This sounds like what I should look into for my Yes and yes. It even does MF signaling, it handles ground start trunks, it does ISDN, Feature Group D trunking, and it even works in Russia (seriously! :) > systems. Where would a similar system be found, and would would the costs > be like? I suspect the only way I could afford such a system will be > surplus/auction/resale, but maybe not... They are not readily available on the common surplus market. They are very high-end and specialized. You need to find a re-seller. That being said, call my friends George or Matt at Reliance Telecommunications in Hayward, California, and ask them how much they can offer a used system for. 1-800-323-6466 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:16:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV In-Reply-To: <200211080414.XAA75272162@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Megan wrote: > I actually caught the show as it aired, and started up the tape > recorder in time for the segment... I'll see if I can dump it to > a file... Cool. > Nice job, Sellam... my only comment is the fact that you didn't > mention the community of collectors out here, or the fact that > we all exchange info... It's very hard to interject lots of information when you only have 7 minutes and the host is directing the conversation with his questions. There was a lot more I wanted to say (namely plug VintageTech) but they've invited me to come back again, so maybe I'll have an opportunity to do so then. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Nov 8 01:17:34 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F77@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> I do not have any experience with VAX 11/750's, but I have once heard the following about the PSU. They are not like the PDP-11 PSU blocks. Those can operate without any load as they are series regulators. The PSU's of the VAX 11/750 *must* have a certain minimum load for correct operation because they are switched-mode. I do not remember if those SMPSU's can be damaged by running them without a minimum load, but I know SMPSU's that will die without a load. So, to be on the safe side: get some bulbs from your car, connect them to the outputs of the PSU to shine a some light on the restoration of the VAX 11/750 ;-) success, - Henk. From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:19:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? In-Reply-To: <3DCB3F4A.E0C1205D@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Larry Anderson wrote: > Just caught it, very well done (and not just because it had Commodores > on it :-), the host was really enthused by the display and said they may > have him on again some later date (probably with stuff plugged in next time). Yes, Leo was very stoked to see all the old machines I brought in. They briefly mentioned the possibility of doing a remote segment from my warehouse (the ACCRC). > And there's an article on their site, > http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3406699,00.html I wrote that ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 01:21:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: VCF 5 In-Reply-To: <3DCAF639.18042.3CAF57BF@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Wish he were still posting. I seem to be engulfed with laptops lately. > I could certainly use his input. http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Nov 8 01:25:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > Found on Usenet. The starting bid is a bit high, but perhaps listmembers > could pool resources...? > > I leave it to you to decide. If I were still collecting, I'd chip in a > bit myself. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 Wow...is this seller legit? I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) -Toth From vern5wright at hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 01:30:00 2002 From: vern5wright at hotmail.com (V Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Discovery Computers 4 Sale Message-ID: I have two Discovery computers (x86 multiprocessor) for sale REASONABLE or amusing trade, in San Diego. Amazing machines - wish I had the time to play with them but I'm trying to get down to 27 machines. Be quick - or next week they'll go to the Computer Museum. Vern Wright vernon_wright@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 01:35:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] Message-ID: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, etc!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA -------- Original Message -------- From: - Fri Nov 08 01:57:42 2002 X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: fernande@internet1.net Received: from EyeDea01 (165.113.252.64.snet.net [64.252.113.165]) by mailhost.internet1.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3149CB122 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:55 -0500 (EST) From: aw-verify@ebay.com Subject: Access restricted: Verify your account information. To: fernande@internet1.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf"; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: aw-verify@ebay.com Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:39 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Message-Id: <20021108064555.3149CB122@mailhost.internet1.net> X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! Dear eBay* *User, During our regular update and verification of the accounts, we couldn't verify your current information. Either your information has changed or it is incomplete. As a result, your access to bid or buy on eBay has been restricted. To start using your eBay account fully, *please update and verify your information by clicking below* : https://scgi.ebay.com/saw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?VerifyInformation Regards, *eBay* ***Please Do Not Reply To This E-Mail As You Will Not Receive A Response*** From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 01:39:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? References: Message-ID: <3DCB6A4D.6080409@internet1.net> It's up next!! 2:39am Friday morning!!!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 8 02:18:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Did anyone else see Sellam on the Screen Savers ? References: Message-ID: <005801c286ff$c3be3440$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Just caught it, very well done (and not just because it had >> Commodores on it :-), the host was really enthused by the display >> and said they may have him on again some later date (probably with >> stuff plugged in next time). > Yes, Leo was very stoked to see all the old machines I brought in. > They briefly mentioned the possibility of doing a remote segment from > my warehouse (the ACCRC). Now if only BskyB would put TechTV in their channel lineup on SkyDigital. Perhaps on channel 567 (formerly home to [.tv], Sky's failed attempt at a technology channel) Anyone care to upload an MPEG of the segment for me to watch? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Nov 8 03:14:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Except that in today's environment, the suits and bean counters either >don't provide a place for the group of brilliant scientists to assemble >or they constrain the work to only those projects that have a high >ROI. Imagine an environment where you can't get the money to deploy >an experimental system until you can demonstrate that it will pay >for itself in less than 3 years. Of course, you have to take into >account the goobers who cut all of your revenue estimates in half. The beauty of the current system is that the really creative people are totally POed by this treatment and tend to work on the "great idea" on the side. How great of a creative genius can you be if you can't sneak your stuff into the "real work"? OTOH I can understand the investor standpoint, in a start up you have a window to market, and "doing science" is a death sentence. Also I am not convinced creativity is a one person thing, ie me and my great idea, as opposed to what happens when me and my great idea get hit with budget cut and time table, then the tech trips and drops the prototype which does something curious when reassembled. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Nov 8 03:41:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: [OT] Licenses? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF51@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Over time, I have accumulated a fair number of official DEC PAK's for >various of their software systems. Most of these were part of deals >where I got or bought some company's complete systems room inventory, >so, systems, periphs, media, manuals and licenses (lock, stock & barrel >is the expression, imsmr). > >Now.. are these licenses still valid? I can't find any date expiration >and/or software version limitation info on the PAK sheets, so, would >assume they're still valid... IANAL, but AFAIK the licences are valid only for the original company unless you get HP to say otherwise. The deal used to be that the OS and a few other "intergrated" products (clustering, decnet etc.) could be transferred with the machine on payment of a fee (300UKP sticks in my mind here ...). So my view is that you do not have the right to use those licences, unless you purchased the company itself, in which case I suspect you own everything completely. >needed. I can get a customer's RSX11MPlus license, because I will >terminate his machine (for him ;-) and move the contents over to mine. I have no idea what the situation is with RSX/RT11/RSTS ... Mentec would know. JMHO Antonio From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 8 07:31:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV Message-ID: >> well gee... maybe if I had received this BEFORE 9:15 on the 7th I could >> have taped it and dumped to MPEG for everyone. > >Blame it on the person respobsible for moderating messages from >non-subsribers :) (I sent the message from my main VCF account which is >not subscribed). Yeah, fortunatly ScreenSavers runs many many times over. I got home last night in time to catch the very end of the segment. So I set my Satallite to record the show at the 2:30am slot, and also the 8:00am slot (my satallite likes to pull the next set of TV listings around 2:30, and it doesn't seem to have the brains to know not to if you are recording... what do you want from an MS product!) If no one else posts a link to an MPEG of the clip, and my tape came out, I'll make an MPEG Saturday and post it. -chris From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 8 07:45:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV Message-ID: <200211081347.IAA75745719@shell.TheWorld.com> Yeah, I saw that they invited you back... I look forward to it... I just caught the show again (8:30am eastern)... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 8 07:47:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay Message-ID: <200211081349.IAA76053326@shell.TheWorld.com> >I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) Doubt it... if you read the auction, it notes that it is 10-12 skids worth of stuff, totalling up to 8000lbs. Megan From Qstieee at aol.com Fri Nov 8 07:49:04 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: VCF East 2.0 needs some hype Message-ID: <44.2906c202.2afd1b0a@aol.com> I would attend either since both are about a two hour drive from Hartford. I could also disseminate information through area ham radio groups Jeff Katz From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Nov 8 07:57:00 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: DECmate & DECstation video port pinouts? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021109005553.00fdadfc@mail.optushome.com.au> I've picked up a DECmate III and a DECstation 3100 that I'd like to get running, but I don't have monitors for either. Does anybody have the pinouts for the video ports so I can make up some adapters? From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Nov 8 07:58:35 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021108075809.01b62e30@ubanproductions.com> At 01:28 AM 11/8/2002 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > Found on Usenet. The starting bid is a bit high, but perhaps listmembers > > could pool resources...? > > > > I leave it to you to decide. If I were still collecting, I'd chip in a > > bit myself. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 > >Wow...is this seller legit? This guy is legit. I'm both sorry and happy to see this auction as I've been buying various boards and such from him at fairly reasonable prices over the last couple of years. I've known that they intended to clear out the inventory at some point, but did not know when. I'm sure that if you have any questions, he will try to answer them for you, including how much warehouse space would be required to store the inventory. --tom >I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) > >-Toth From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Nov 8 08:05:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Bringing up a 10 years dormant VAX 11/750 References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C4EE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <20021105060338.91870.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <20021105033714.L24667@ns2.tspcfast.net> Message-ID: <3DCBC427.3A320B3E@comcast.net> Brian Hechinger wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2002 at 10:03:38PM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > When I was a teenager, I dragged an empty H960 rack upstairs, by > > myself, by standing in it (through the hole in the bottom) and hoisting > > it up one stair at a time and repositioning my feet. Nearly ended > > up at the bottom of the stairs twice. > > when i moved out of my last house, i had a DEC 6' rack in the second floor > where the computer room was. when i moved out, my brother and i had to get it > down the stairs. > > the plan was, that we were going to hump it down a step at a time. him at the > top, and me at the bottom. after going down the first step, instead of stopping > on the next step down, it kept going. it hit me so hard it threw me backwards > (which is what kept it from sliding over me i think) and slid down the stairs > with me in front of it backpeddling like mad. when i got to the bottom i was > pinned to the wall with my butt stuck through the drywall and against the brick > outter wall, and the rack resting against my knees with my one foot under it. > > i got REAL lucky, as i was not seriously injured. my foot was sore, as were my > knees, but no damage. the worst i got were a pair of scars on the inside of > each of my arms from the very sharp wire guide that is on the back of those > racks at the bottom. > > adrenalin being what it is, the first words out of my mouth were, "Well, *that* > didn't go as planned." ;) > > > I learned my lesson after that... > > so did i. i moved into a single floor house. ;) > > -brian Sounds almost like what I ran into with an 5' tall IBM 9335 Disk Unit rack, I got from a friends second floor apartment. 'Twas quite a bit too heavy for the three of us to carry down the curved front stairs. The back stairs, however, was a straight shot down, out the door onto the deck. I saw the chance of tragedy, so I just laid it down on it's smooth side, hooked two straps to the top side, and held on while we pushed it over the edge. You ever see a small guy trying to plow a field with a really big bull pulling the blade? I have an idea what that's like now... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Nov 8 08:11:01 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Data General Aviion 4000 available for pickup (melb,au) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021109011006.00fdadfc@mail.optushome.com.au> I've got a Data General Aviion 4000 here if anyone wants it. Must be able to pickup from the SE suburbs of Melbourne, Australia. It's a large tower case, so it's easy enough to move but too big for me to ship. Alternatively I'll consider stripping it if you need parts. As far as I know it has 2 Motorola 88k CPUs, a 1.2GB HDD, a 525MB tape drive. If the HDD hasn't been erased it should still have DG-UX 4.32 on it. It has a multiport serial card in one of the VME slots, but I don't have the breakout box. There are a couple of catches... The NVRAM is dead. All but 1 of the SIMMs has been removed and some of the SIMM socket retaining clips were broken by whoever removed the SIMMs. The one remaining SIMM is not enough for the system to run, I get a fatal memory error on power up. It uses 80 pin SIMMs which I assume are DG specific (DEC 80 pin SIMMs will not work). I could use the HDD in another system, so if you want the HDD left intact I'd like another drive to replace it. From Qstieee at aol.com Fri Nov 8 08:13:03 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: VAX manuals found Message-ID: <19b.b830150.2afd207a@aol.com> I came across these DEC VAX manuals while looking for something else. Am not selling, but will provide information from these if needed non-commercially. DECserver 300 RF30 / RF71 R215F KFQSA BA46 RRD42 StorageWorks family user guide VMS 5.5-2 release notes VMS 5.5 upgrade From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 08:32:05 2002 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction Message-ID: >Too bad it needs 440v 3phase and also requires the cooling unit, how >cool >would that be to have setup at VCF-East 2.0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Anybody gonna bid??? I would think about it... but I'm a 'foreign national'. Funny they think they can discriminate against permanent residents that way... ho hum. Well never mind - I WILL bring my Connection Machine to VCF-East! :-) Wonder if there are prizes for 'most blinkenlights'? :-) BTW anyone else who owns one please get in touch - there can't be many of us! Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From at258 at osfn.org Fri Nov 8 08:54:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3DCB05B0.6D3EE521@adelphia.net> Message-ID: Get rid of the sofa. On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, David Barnes wrote: > geez... thats about 5 minutes from me!!!! but alas, I have an apt and no place to > store them... > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General > > Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. > > > > Can anyone rescue them? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 > > From: Christian Fandt > > To: Sellam Ismail > > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > > > Hey Sellam! > > > > Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to ask you to pass > > this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should > > _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! This is short > > notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address through the Rescue > > List or maybe a web search, or ? > > > > East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten miles southeast > > of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. > > > > Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, later in the > > Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. > > > > -Chris > > > > NNNN > > > > -- -- > > > > >From: "Eric Kotz" > > >To: > > >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 > > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 > > >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > > > tests=none > > > version=2.31 > > >X-Spam-Level: > > > > > >Hello, > > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > > >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > > >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > > >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > > >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > > >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > > >disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > > > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > > >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > > >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > > >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > > > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from you). If you have > > >any interest, or know > > >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Eric Kotz > > >eric@erickotz.com > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > > >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > > >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > > Member of Antique Wireless Association > > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > > -- > David Barnes > davebarnes@adelphia.net > > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru > and collector of DEC equipment > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 8 09:17:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: DECmate & DECstation video port pinouts? References: <3.0.3.32.20021109005553.00fdadfc@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <00af01c2873a$38a22ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've picked up a DECmate III and a DECstation 3100 that I'd > like to get running, but I don't have monitors for either. > > Does anybody have the pinouts for the video ports so I can make > up some adapters? Here for a vaxStation 3100 (and many others): http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php and here for a DECmateIII (and Dec Rainbow, vt240): http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1999-12/0070.html from a clever gentleman named Tony Duell Note that they emphatically Do Not share the same pin assignments. What I'm looking for is if the first one will do Alpha's as well... John A. From n4fs at monmouth.com Fri Nov 8 09:27:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005d01c2873b$68cd4b20$086dbd18@n4fs> I received the exact email a couple of months ago. I ignored it. More recently I received one where they claimed I did not pay for a purchase and wanted to validate my info. I sent ebay a bitch letter because out of about 2000 ebay transactions I never missed a payment on a single purchase. Ebay kindly responded and apologized, but, said that they were not the originator of the emails. As it turned out they came from Italy. At that time I was using my full email address as my ebay name and ebay recommended that I change it so unscrupulous characters cannot just send me spam or try and solicit info. Since then, I changed my ebay name. You may consider the same thing. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: "Classic Computers" ; ; ; "Buick GS List" Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 2:36 AM Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] > Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if > you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of > info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, > etc!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Nov 8 09:48:01 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <120506941573.20021107200002@subatomix.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Now Jeffrey, > charging exhorbitant prices for things that ClassicCmpers like With you having an email address of ... sales@subatomix.com ... ( which has a pretty commercial ring to it ) That you use for your eBay sales under the ID ... xor-ax-ax Parting out systems ( you pick up at surplus? ), and selling the parts on eBay ( for as much as you can get for them?) ( as evidenced by no low "Buy-It-Now" prices? ) http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=xor-ax-ax&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=0 Incidently, I see that your parts on eBay aren't selling too well currently/recently, but I had seen that you have had some pretty good sales in the past. Which incidently was EXACTLY the same thing THAT I WAS DOING. > charging exhorbitant prices for things that ClassicCmpers like And I did sell a part for $1 one time. Do you feel that was exhorbitantly high? I never found fault with you. Or passed judgement on you. How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? That time I talked to you on the phone, you wanted MORE for your CMD ( disk only ) controller than I ever could have gotten for one. Did you offer that part to the list first, FREE ( or very nearly so ) to good home? As a matter of fact, there have been times that I was wanting LESS for some of my parts than I've seen them sell for on eBay. ( Though it was only a couple of times. ) > So you are scared that this book may educate people No, I was concerned that the data sources might be incomplete and fail to "conveniently" acknowledge the commercial market sector. You know, that portion of the economy that is encumbered with real expenses ( like marketing expenses, payroll, taxes, etc. ) and that provides jobs ( for those that still have one ) and therefore has to charge prices for their goods and services which allows them to meet those expenses and remain in operation. Don't lament when you're out of work, when you have previously condemned that sector that provided you your jobs. Don't lament when you see the value of your retirement accounts decline in value when you condemn those companies that your very same account is invested in, decline in value, as you complain about their prices ( no competent fund manager invests funds in the average eBay seller ). This thing called the economy is something we are all in together. Soil that where you eat, and you may find the food no longer edible. > Maybe it is to have access to equipment-available announcements in the > hope that you can get there first and resell for serious green. I only ever picked up one system. I traded that system to a hobbyist up in Maryland for only a few parts that he didn't need. No cash whatsoever. I also drove it halfway up there to him, with me covering the expenses of doing so. He drove down and we met halfway. I also gave him, no charge, a couple of extra parts I already had, that he seemed to have a use for. I did end up selling a couple of those parts which he traded for and recovered what costs I had into it. But it was only fair compensation for the work I had into it. I can't help but feeling you would have done the same, with you being an eBay seller and all that. I know I saw you said that you were a poor student. How do you know that my situation was not similar. Are you the kind of person that would like to be paid as well as you possibly can, yet condemn others for desiring the same? You know, I used to believe that if everybody worked together, everybody could see some benefit from that cooperative relationship, whether that be parts you have a use for, or cash to buy parts you want, etc. There have been times that I could have run something by you that would have helped you out, but previous contact seemed to indicate that you were all about yourself only. I have since given up. My impression was that you can't stand to see anyone else realize any benefit from their contribution. You want it all for yourself. So you have closed off those opportunities. Remember that biblical quote ... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.? I'm definitely can tell you ... I have a personal pet peeve with people that have double standards. I do not like to pay people in any professional manner that previous experience with them shows they would not reciprocate equivocally. You set the stage. YMMV. Mail List At 08:00 PM 11/7/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Thursday, November 7, 2002, Mail List wrote: > > Is there a hobbyist discount? Something like $30.00 off the cover price > > with FREE shipping!!! If not, I might just rather wait until they are on > > eBay. > >It seems odd that a reseller like yourself, charging exhorbitant prices for >things that ClassicCmpers like, would ask the above questions, even in >satire. How ironic. How asinine. > >In another email, Mail List wrote: > > If the valuation data is based solely or primarily on eBay data and/or > > hobbyist opinion, then it would be failing to acknowledge a serious > > segment of the market, ie the commercial market in "out of production", > > "end of life" computer components. > >Ah: your real motive! So you are scared that this book may educate people, >and then those people may be less willing to pay the high prices you demand. >It's all about money, isn't it? > >One has to wonder why you are subscribed to this list. Maybe it is to have >access to equipment-available announcements in the hope that you can get >there first and resell for serious green. Maybe I would think of that as >exploitation. Maybe others here would think so as well. > >I'm with Sellam on this one. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Nov 8 09:50:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <005d01c2873b$68cd4b20$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> <005d01c2873b$68cd4b20$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <200211081050.58977.jcwren@jcwren.com> The whole problem with people like this is that we don't have public executions when they're caught. Hell, I'd pay $2 a week for a lottery ticket to pull the switch on one of these idiots. --John On Friday 08 November 2002 10:27, Mike Feher wrote: > I received the exact email a couple of months ago. I ignored it. More > recently I received one where they claimed I did not pay for a purchase and > wanted to validate my info. I sent ebay a bitch letter because out of about > 2000 ebay transactions I never missed a payment on a single purchase. Ebay > kindly responded and apologized, but, said that they were not the > originator of the emails. As it turned out they came from Italy. At that > time I was using my full email address as my ebay name and ebay recommended > that I change it so unscrupulous characters cannot just send me spam or try > and solicit info. Since then, I changed my ebay name. You may consider the > same thing. Regards - Mike > > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell NJ, 07731 > (732) 901-9193 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chad Fernandez" > To: "Classic Computers" ; ; > ; "Buick GS List" > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 2:36 AM > Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your > account information.] > > > Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if > > you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of > > info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, > > etc!! > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Nov 8 10:11:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS file needed Message-ID: <20021108161244.QXFZ22999.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Doe anyone have a copy of BACKUP.EXE from MS-DOS 5.0 that they would zip and email to me? TIA -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 10:30:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > Found on Usenet. The starting bid is a bit high, but perhaps listmembers > > could pool resources...? > > > > I leave it to you to decide. If I were still collecting, I'd chip in a > > bit myself. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 > > Wow...is this seller legit? > > I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) It's already full. This would break me. But we should definitely get a pool going so we can at least make Mail List pay way more for it than he wants to. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 10:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? Because you're a dick. > No, I was concerned that the data sources might be incomplete and fail > to "conveniently" acknowledge the commercial market sector. You know, > that portion of the economy that is encumbered with real expenses ( like > marketing expenses, payroll, taxes, etc. ) and that provides jobs ( for > those that still have one ) and therefore has to charge prices for their > goods and services which allows them to meet those expenses and remain > in operation. Look, the book is called _Collectible *MICROCOMPUTERS*_. Sure the LSI-11 is a microcomputer, but that was conveniently left out. There is no pricing information for PDP stuff, so you can continue to ask whatever the hell you like for it. The prices in the book were based on a mixture of actual scarcity (i.e. supply), demand, gut feeling, and past sales, in that order. At least that is how I approached it when Michael consulted with me on the pricing. I can't speak for Michael, as he had final say as to how to value each machine since it was his book. I think he did a terrific job. The values are reasonable. The values are based on what a machine might go for in the real world, not what it would sell for on eBay if the seller was a dealer and had overhead such as taxes and marketing and payroll, etc. Since when does ANY value guide take this into account? You are now arguing for the sake of arguing. Just admin you're a dick and move on. We'll forget about you soon enough. > Don't lament when you're out of work, when you have > previously condemned that sector that provided you your jobs. Don't > lament when you see the value of your retirement accounts decline in > value when you condemn those companies that your very same account is > invested in, decline in value, as you complain about their prices ( no > competent fund manager invests funds in the average eBay seller ). This > thing called the economy is something we are all in together. Soil that > where you eat, and you may find the food no longer edible. Ok, George Bush, we'll allow you to attack Iraq just to get you to shut up. > You know, I used to believe that if everybody worked together, everybody > could see some benefit from that cooperative relationship, whether that > be parts you have a use for, or cash to buy parts you want, etc. There > have been times that I could have run something by you that would have > helped you out, but previous contact seemed to indicate that you were > all about yourself only. I have since given up. My impression was that > you can't stand to see anyone else realize any benefit from their > contribution. You want it all for yourself. So you have closed off those > opportunities. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Nov 8 10:45:38 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C55C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I'd chip in a chunk.... I mean... I _could_ afford the lot, but there's no way in hell I can store it, or have it shipped to Holland, where I am now... *sigh* --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:32 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay > > > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > > > Found on Usenet. The starting bid is a bit high, but > perhaps listmembers > > > could pool resources...? > > > > > > I leave it to you to decide. If I were still collecting, > I'd chip in a > > > bit myself. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 > > > > Wow...is this seller legit? > > > > I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) > > It's already full. This would break me. > > But we should definitely get a pool going so we can at least make Mail > List pay way more for it than he wants to. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 8 11:29:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay Message-ID: <200211081731.MAA76276641@shell.TheWorld.com> I would also chip in a little... but even though I'm sort of in the neighborhood (about 20 minutes away from him), I don't have the storage space for such a haul... Then the question becomes how we part things out to people? Does someone start offering them on ebay? Do they get parted out to the people who contributed to save them (and who decides the value)? Do they get maintained as a central cache where CCmpR's can purchase spares (with the contributors getting a price break)? So much hardware... it would be shame to see it disappear from the available pool forever... (if course, that would mean that whatever is left is that much more valuable). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Nov 8 11:40:02 2002 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108115735.05113930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Sellam, I also had a good laugh yesterday. But maybe for a different reason. Your "dick" message was received two messages after your message about acting like a reasonable, mature adult. I thought that was REALLY funny. > b) treat other folks with respect as one would do in any public setting > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > adult and get along with people as normal folks do. Does this maturity also include include west coast ham fests where you may have been making a nuisance of yourself "pushing" vcf? Or when you try to launch an interruption of service attack on the email server of another list member? Or when you were so proud of yourself for your fax machine attack over a simple fax? Didn't know I knew about all that, huh? > Yeah, I wouldn't want you to come if you weren't going to be mature and > adult and get along with people as normal folks do. You know, I think given an entire lifetime, you will NEVER mature to the same level as Tony. > But we should definitely get a pool going so we can at least make Mail > List pay way more for it than he wants to. Sellam, you're deluded. I don't want it. The DEC market is virtually dead. They wouldn't be dumping this stuff like that if that wasn't the case. But help yourself. Best Regards, Mail List P.S. And you know, I really would have given you my support in your endeavors, if you would have exhibited a more "live and let live" attitude. But I have not felt it necessary to lower myself to your immature level of name calling and profanity. At 08:45 AM 11/8/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > > > How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? > >Because you're a dick. > > > No, I was concerned that the data sources might be incomplete and fail > > to "conveniently" acknowledge the commercial market sector. You know, > > that portion of the economy that is encumbered with real expenses ( like > > marketing expenses, payroll, taxes, etc. ) and that provides jobs ( for > > those that still have one ) and therefore has to charge prices for their > > goods and services which allows them to meet those expenses and remain > > in operation. > >Look, the book is called _Collectible *MICROCOMPUTERS*_. Sure the LSI-11 >is a microcomputer, but that was conveniently left out. There is no >pricing information for PDP stuff, so you can continue to ask whatever the >hell you like for it. > >The prices in the book were based on a mixture of actual scarcity (i.e. >supply), demand, gut feeling, and past sales, in that order. At least >that is how I approached it when Michael consulted with me on the pricing. >I can't speak for Michael, as he had final say as to how to value each >machine since it was his book. I think he did a terrific job. The values >are reasonable. The values are based on what a machine might go for in >the real world, not what it would sell for on eBay if the seller was a >dealer and had overhead such as taxes and marketing and payroll, etc. > >Since when does ANY value guide take this into account? You are now >arguing for the sake of arguing. Just admin you're a dick and move on. >We'll forget about you soon enough. > > > Don't lament when you're out of work, when you have > > previously condemned that sector that provided you your jobs. Don't > > lament when you see the value of your retirement accounts decline in > > value when you condemn those companies that your very same account is > > invested in, decline in value, as you complain about their prices ( no > > competent fund manager invests funds in the average eBay seller ). This > > thing called the economy is something we are all in together. Soil that > > where you eat, and you may find the food no longer edible. > >Ok, George Bush, we'll allow you to attack Iraq just to get you to shut >up. > > > > > You know, I used to believe that if everybody worked together, everybody > > could see some benefit from that cooperative relationship, whether that > > be parts you have a use for, or cash to buy parts you want, etc. There > > have been times that I could have run something by you that would have > > helped you out, but previous contact seemed to indicate that you were > > all about yourself only. I have since given up. My impression was that > > you can't stand to see anyone else realize any benefit from their > > contribution. You want it all for yourself. So you have closed off those > > opportunities. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Fri Nov 8 11:56:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021108115735.05113930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3DCBFB4A.9914DDF0@rain.org> There is no excuse for starting another flame war on this listserver. Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. Benjamin Franklin From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 12:00:03 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF Message-ID: I second that, Marvin. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From phillipmilks at juno.com Fri Nov 8 12:29:08 2002 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Signetics 2650 Message-ID: <20021108.103050.570.604377@webmail2.wlv.untd.com> I'd like to find (buy) these IC's & equipment, development systems, etc for it. E.G. Instructor 50, SBC w/ optical card reader, etc. TIA ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Nov 8 12:34:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <200211081731.MAA76276641@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: > I would also chip in a little... but even though I'm sort of in > the neighborhood (about 20 minutes away from him), I don't have > the storage space for such a haul... Nor do I...30 tons after Paterson, NJ. > Does someone start offering them on ebay? Do they get parted out > to the people who contributed to save them (and who decides the > value)? Do they get maintained as a central cache where CCmpR's > can purchase spares (with the contributors getting a price break)? I think the best solution is let a dealer buy the lot, do the dirty work of hauling and storing, take some profit (yes, I know it hurts a lot of you, but its the biz), and buy the spares on a per-piece basis. > So much hardware... it would be shame to see it disappear from the > available pool forever... (if course, that would mean that whatever > is left is that much more valuable). Is any of it really rare, must-be-saved stuff? It seems that caches of DEC stuff turn up all of the time. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Nov 8 12:38:02 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well never mind - I WILL bring my Connection Machine to VCF-East! :-) Been there, done that. (It was in the parking lot, if anyone noticed). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 8 13:21:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <3DCBFB4A.9914DDF0@rain.org> Message-ID: I apologize for failing to adequately trim the message that I appended mine to. The juxtaposition made an implication about Dick that should instead have been the option of each person to draw their own conclusion. It should be a cause for concern that after ubiquitously voicing unpopular opinions about every issue (such as that MICROS~1 products did "not have security holes"), that he would spam all with a virus and disappear without a trace. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > There is no excuse for starting another flame war on this listserver. > > > Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far > more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting > moment. > > Benjamin Franklin From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 8 13:32:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021108143802.36cf7bbc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only Friday! Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix 31 calculators, all NIB! Found these at a garage sale. They appear to be from the estate of a Tektronix employee that bought them in Beaverton and shipped them to Orlando when he was transferred here. Two are "normal" 31s, the other is a different color and is marked "Coulter Model 43 Data Converter". It has options 1, 4, Pa and Pb installed. I've posted a couple of pictures of it at . I haven't checked out the other two yet but they also seem to be well optioned out and have what I think is the interface to connect the TM500 modular instruments. Joe :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 8 13:53:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021108143802.36cf7bbc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021108145904.4c578fe8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FWIW I found that option 1 is the Alpha-numeric printer. Option 4 is 256 registers of memory. 256 registers can hold 2048 instructions, the standard memory can only hold 512 instructions. I can't find a listing of options PA and PB, does anyone know what they are? Joe At 02:38 PM 11/8/02, you wrote: > OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only Friday! > > Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix 31 calculators, all NIB! > > Found these at a garage sale. They appear to be from the estate of a Tektronix employee that bought them in Beaverton and shipped them to Orlando when he was transferred here. Two are "normal" 31s, the other is a different color and is marked "Coulter Model 43 Data Converter". It has options 1, 4, Pa and Pb installed. I've posted a couple of pictures of it at . I haven't checked out the other two yet but they also seem to be well optioned out and have what I think is the interface to connect the TM500 modular instruments. > > Joe :-) > > > From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Nov 8 13:55:01 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <200211081731.MAA76276641@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3DCC156C.B772F06E@xs4all.nl> So would I. One possible alternative could be to buy only the PDP boards and come up with an acceptable method of distribution for those who participated in the pool. I.e. one could buy 'shares' (1 share = 1 $) and for the parts which have a count less than there are people, for example a lottery could be a possible way. Just a thought. Ed Megan wrote: > > I would also chip in a little... but even though I'm sort of in > the neighborhood (about 20 minutes away from him), I don't have > the storage space for such a haul... > > Then the question becomes how we part things out to people? > > Does someone start offering them on ebay? Do they get parted out > to the people who contributed to save them (and who decides the > value)? Do they get maintained as a central cache where CCmpR's > can purchase spares (with the contributors getting a price break)? > > So much hardware... it would be shame to see it disappear from the > available pool forever... (if course, that would mean that whatever > is left is that much more valuable). > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 13:59:01 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF Message-ID: >I apologize for failing to adequately trim the message that I appended >mine to. The juxtaposition made an implication about Dick that should >instead have been the option of each person to draw their own conclusion. Whatever... >It should be a cause for concern that after ubiquitously voicing unpopular >opinions about every issue (such as that MICROS~1 products did "not have >security holes"), that he would spam all with a virus and disappear >without a trace. Perhaps he left because he felt he was unwanted? After the responses to your message, I would guess that he didn't exactly feel the love around here. Certainly I didn't agree with him on every point, and his battles tended to escalate pretty quickly, but he has never done anything to me personally, and I can put politics aside. He and I have made several deals on the side for parts, and he has provided me with some very good technical help and suggestions. I contacted him recently, and all is going quite well with him. He is extremely busy with several projects, and he said he couldn't devote the time necessary to be active on the list. Also, he gave a reasonable explanation for the virus issue, and said that it had finally been cleared from his PC. Although *he did not directly say this*, I think the virus issue and the flamewars made him (like they did me) want to leave the list. If anyone wishes to contact him to verify any of this, I'll provide his email address upon request. Oh, and by the way, flamewars are one thing, but picking on someone who can't read the message to defend himself is quite another -- whether or not you agreed with him... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 8 14:15:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <200211080431.XAA04295@conman.org> References: <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> from "nerdware@ctgonline.org" at Nov 06, 2002 10:57:24 AM <200211080431.XAA04295@conman.org> Message-ID: <4234.4.20.168.242.1036786621.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > Jef Raskin (I think) developed ways to render > the hidden parts of windows that even blew away the PARC people, > since they'd been trying to figure it out for years. No, the trick to get decent performance is to NOT render the parts that are hidden. It's a completely trivial problem if you do render them, but it wastes time. The clever thing that Bill Atkinson came up with was the region data structure and related algorithms; Apple patented it. This allows for an efficient representation of an arbitrary area of the screen, for instance, the portion of a window that is partially obscured by other windows. This work was done for the Lisa; later Bill Atkinson was recruited away to the Macintosh team, where he refined the concepts and produced a hand-optimized assembler version to meet the limited memory requirements of the Macintosh. "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" wrote: > The engineer in question had been on the tour of Xerox PARC and had > thought that the engineers there (at PARC) *had* overlapping windows and > proceeded to reverse engineer their design. Apple didn't reverse-engineer any of it. They built their own. > It was only *after* the > Apple engineer had it working did he find out that PARC engineers never > implemented overlapping windows (and I think they were still trying to > figure out how to do that). Xerox had overlapping windows well before that time. I'm not sure exactly when they appeared, but they definitely existed by the time of the Apple visit. From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:16:41 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:46 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108115735.05113930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > I also had a good laugh yesterday. But maybe for a different reason. > > Your "dick" message was received two messages after your message > about acting like a reasonable, mature adult. I thought that was REALLY > funny. I consider it "reasonable" and "mature" to call you a dick when you're acting like one. > Does this maturity also include include west coast ham fests where you > may have been making a nuisance of yourself "pushing" vcf? Huh!? I paid for a spot just like everyone else. And if "making a nuisance" of myself means sitting there behind my table with a VCF banner hanging from it and handing out flyers then I guess I'm a dick too. Really, though, must you resort to making up such claims like this? So peurile. > Or when you try to launch an interruption of service attack on the email > server of another list member? > > Or when you were so proud of yourself for your fax machine attack over a > simple fax? > > Didn't know I knew about all that, huh? Hell, *I* didn't even know about this. From whose ass are you pulling this out of? Why don't you just move on to calling me a Camel Jockey and be done with it? > You know, I think given an entire lifetime, you will NEVER mature to the > same level as Tony. Cool! > Sellam, you're deluded. I don't want it. The DEC market is virtually > dead. They wouldn't be dumping this stuff like that if that wasn't the > case. Oh no, I guess you'll have to move back in with mom. > P.S. And you know, I really would have given you my support in your > endeavors, > if you would have exhibited a more "live and let live" attitude. > But I have not > felt it necessary to lower myself to your immature level of name > calling and > profanity. No thanks. I already get plenty of support from genuine fans of vintage computing, but thanks for offering. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:19:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Erlacher's disposition? (was Re: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > It should be a cause for concern that after ubiquitously voicing > unpopular opinions about every issue (such as that MICROS~1 products did > "not have security holes"), that he would spam all with a virus and > disappear without a trace. I heard he's just really busy with some project and figured that was more important than continuing his pursuit of distributing falsehoods on the net. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:20:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I second that, Marvin. I third that, so I'll conclude by saying that Mail List is a dick. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 8 14:22:09 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: References: <200211071747.gA7HlOg03920@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3970.4.20.168.242.1036786777.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote about his phone system: > I'm planning to someday pipe in either the DMX music from my cable box > or a continuous stream of MP3's from my Linux firewall from over the > web. Remember to pay the ASCAP royalties so you don't get your ass sued off. This is why some phone systems provide music-on-hold that is synthesized classical music. There's no royalty to pay. From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:23:47 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Well never mind - I WILL bring my Connection Machine to VCF-East! :-) > > Been there, done that. > > (It was in the parking lot, if anyone noticed). What!? I didn't notice! Or maybe I just forgot? Naw, I would have remembered that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:26:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021108143802.36cf7bbc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Joe wrote: > OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only Friday! > > Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix 31 calculators, all NIB! I have three also, but not NIB, so you win :) Very nice score. And at a garage sale even! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:27:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <3DCC156C.B772F06E@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, The Wanderer wrote: > So would I. One possible alternative could be to buy only the PDP boards > and come up with an acceptable method of distribution for those who > participated in the pool. I.e. one could buy 'shares' (1 share = 1 $) > and for the parts which have a count less than there are people, for > example a lottery could be a possible way. But who values the boards? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 14:29:13 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Perhaps he left because he felt he was unwanted? After the responses to > your message, I would guess that he didn't exactly feel the love around > here. Whatever. You reap what you sow. > from his PC. Although *he did not directly say this*, I think the virus > issue and the flamewars made him (like they did me) want to leave the list. So basically he couldn't stand the smell after he shit all over the place? > Oh, and by the way, flamewars are one thing, but picking on someone who > can't read the message to defend himself is quite another -- whether or not > you agreed with him... You can forward this on to him. He knows how to reach me. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Nov 8 14:31:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <20021108180001.13314.10505.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I'd donate a small amount. I don't think I need any parts now. It'd be cool to get consideration if I need some later, but c'est la vie if not. - Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 8 14:34:02 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> References: <3DC6DB50.408.2CACCA91@localhost> <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> Message-ID: <3309.4.20.168.242.1036787761.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > Also keep in mind that the majority of the Alto/Star system was > developed by the end of 1973..... No, the *minority* of the Alto system was developed by then. The Alto hardware was not operational until March 1973. The early Alto software was not very advanced, and did NOT have overlapping windows and other such fancy GUI stuff. The software that everyone thinks of in connection with the Alto was developed between 1973 and 1980 or so, it didn't suddenly spring into existence in 1973. IIRC, development on the Star didn't start until 1979 or so. > and also, they had developed a > color laser copier during that time as well. I'm not sure when color laser copiers appeared, but I'm skeptical about it being in the early 1970s. The first laser printer prototype (SLOT) was built in 1973, but it was NOT color. The first "production" laser printer, Dover, didn't apear until 1976, and the first commercially available laser printer was introduced in 1977. Color laser printers didn't appear for quite some time. From donm at cts.com Fri Nov 8 14:38:02 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if > you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of > info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, > etc!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA Hopefully, you or someonr else will have passed this to eBay for them to pursue. - don > -------- Original Message -------- > From: - Fri Nov 08 01:57:42 2002 > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 > Return-Path: > Delivered-To: fernande@internet1.net > Received: from EyeDea01 (165.113.252.64.snet.net [64.252.113.165]) by > mailhost.internet1.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3149CB122 for > ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:55 -0500 (EST) > From: aw-verify@ebay.com > Subject: Access restricted: Verify your account information. > To: fernande@internet1.net > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf"; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Reply-To: aw-verify@ebay.com > Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:39 -0500 > X-Priority: 3 > X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B > X-Mailer: Foxmail > Message-Id: <20021108064555.3149CB122@mailhost.internet1.net> > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > > > > Dear eBay* *User, > > During our regular update and verification of the accounts, we couldn't > verify your current information. Either your information has changed or > it is incomplete. > > As a result, your access to bid or buy on eBay has been restricted. To > start using your eBay account fully, *please update and verify your > information by clicking below* : > > https://scgi.ebay.com/saw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?VerifyInformation > > &raccept=0> > > Regards, > *eBay* > > > ***Please Do Not Reply To This E-Mail As You Will Not Receive A > Response*** > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 8 14:41:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: DEC Parts haul Message-ID: I'd gladly kick in some bux toward this... both selfishly (I want some stuff for my 11/44 system) but more to just help preserve this resource and keep it out of the scrap shredders. And I'd be willing to also give money to rent a local (to the Stuff) storage unit for a month or two until logistics could be worked out. Further, I'd help out with transportation if the load as a whole has to be shipped somewhere out of the area it's in now. Cheers John From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 14:50:03 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF Message-ID: >You can forward this on to him. He knows how to reach me. You, and your opinions, are not worth it ... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 8 14:51:43 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: Message-ID: <007201c28768$b1384a40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> This is a fairly important time. When a dealer gives up his lot it means that prices go lower, but, at some point in pricing it won't be worth the effort and a holder might toss everything to a scrapper. ultimately there won't be much left. Are we there yet? Yes, with PDP-1's and 8's. I'd be willing to pay a 10% share for 10% of the lot provided the right things are in there. We could start by assigning values to all the items and then letting shareowners draw off small percentages in round robins until all the shareowner lots are exhausted. This mainly to prevent any *one* from getting *all* of the good stuff, and therefore to spread the best experiences to the most people, while honoring price paid, probably what Ed was getting at. I asked the seller if he could translate the part numbers (the only things currently listed) into product names so as to assist the selection/ decision process. He's looking into it. it'll all be over in a week anyway, but its worth some effort. John A. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 8 14:53:16 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 Restoration Project In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F77@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8F77@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <2806.4.20.168.242.1036788763.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > They are not like the PDP-11 PSU blocks. Those can > operate without any load as they are series regulators. > The PSU's of the VAX 11/750 *must* have a certain minimum > load for correct operation because they are switched-mode. > I do not remember if those SMPSU's can be damaged by > running them without a minimum load, but I know SMPSU's > that will die without a load. Actually many PDP-11 power supplies are switchers as well, even in some of the fairly early models. For instance, the H744 and H745 power supplies of the 11/40, 11/45, 11/55, and 11/70, and the OEM versions of those, 11/35 and 11/50. The small-box version of the 11/35 (10.5-inch tall chassis) might use something else, I don't have docs on it. From curt at atari-history.com Fri Nov 8 14:55:02 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Discovery Computers 4 Sale References: Message-ID: <002c01c28769$4b6325e0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Discovery Computers??? x86 multiprocessors??? Please elaborate, any links or picks??? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "V Wright" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 2:32 AM Subject: Discovery Computers 4 Sale > > I have two Discovery computers (x86 multiprocessor) > for sale REASONABLE or amusing trade, in San Diego. > Amazing machines - wish I had the time to play with > them but I'm trying to get down to 27 machines. > > Be quick - or next week they'll go to the Computer > Museum. > > Vern Wright > > vernon_wright@hotmail.com > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Nov 8 15:01:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <007201c28768$b1384a40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <007201c28768$b1384a40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021108210342.GA25407@www.4mcnabb.net> On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 03:52:02PM -0500, John Allain wrote: > > I'd be willing to pay a 10% share for 10% of the lot provided the > right things are in there. > While I don't know if I could afford a full 10%, I'd be willing to donate whatever I can to the cause. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 8 15:03:02 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <007201c28768$b1384a40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: To John Allain: I wonder if the Vendor would be willing to take a deposit on the load to extend it's 'execution date' by enough time to see if a rescue effort by a List Consortium is a feasible thing??? Of course It'd most likely be non-refundable, as I'd expect, but it might be worth asking... Just a Thought. John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 8 15:13:03 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <007201c28768$b1384a40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021108211530.40775.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > I'd be willing to pay a 10% share for 10% of the lot provided the > right things are in there. I might be, too. Dunno how we'd handle shipping/storage/etc, but it's an idea. Count me in for 10%. Who's going to organize it? Better be someone close... > We could start by assigning values to all the items... That could work. I'm mostly focused on PDP-8 stuff (there's a little in there, not lots), but I do have DEC hardware spanning the 1964-1995 timeframe. Very little stuff newer than that, though. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From curt at atari-history.com Fri Nov 8 15:20:01 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Corvus Developers kit that was Ebay References: Message-ID: <003c01c2876c$bd2ebdd0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> A few months back someone was auctioning off a full set of Corvus Omni-net developers software and manuals, unfortunately as much as I wanted to bid on it, cash was tight. Did anyone here from the list win that auction and if so, would you be willing to make copies of the disks and photocopies of the manuals (I'd be willing to pay for the costs of course) or have you generously posted up onto a website someplace for all to see, share and enjoy??? Curt From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 15:24:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: <3970.4.20.168.242.1036786777.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Remember to pay the ASCAP royalties so you don't get your ass sued off. Oh, right. Damn pesky lawyers. > This is why some phone systems provide music-on-hold that is synthesized > classical music. There's no royalty to pay. Maybe I'll just pipe in Commodore SID music instead (from an actual Commodore 64 even! ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 8 15:31:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >You can forward this on to him. He knows how to reach me. > > You, and your opinions, are not worth it ... True! But at least I'm willing to accept the consequences of what I say. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 8 15:38:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3DCBDAD4.23661.402C771F@localhost> No I think you're wrong here Sellam. He's more like genital lice. A parasite. What is more interesting is that he had the audacity to try and discredit the value of Michaels book on a list of classic computer enthusiasts. Michaels contributions to the computer community go back to the days of Micro 80 and his newsletter is a valued resource. As is obvious this creep's main concern is making a buck off recent interest in older computers despite all the appeals to the higher virtues of his contribution to blah, blah, blah. The usual tactic of a charlatan. A while back an interesting poster to the list, a scrap dealer who could have offerred us insight into the workings of that world was harassed off the list. I viewed that as unfortunate but slime like this who selfservingly slag an info- source valueable cause it might undermine their preying on unknowledgeable collectors is beyond redemption. Lawrence > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > > > How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? > > Because you're a dick. > > > No, I was concerned that the data sources might be incomplete and fail > > to "conveniently" acknowledge the commercial market sector. You know, > > that portion of the economy that is encumbered with real expenses ( like > > marketing expenses, payroll, taxes, etc. ) and that provides jobs ( for > > those that still have one ) and therefore has to charge prices for their > > goods and services which allows them to meet those expenses and remain > > in operation. > > Look, the book is called _Collectible *MICROCOMPUTERS*_. Sure the LSI-11 > is a microcomputer, but that was conveniently left out. There is no > pricing information for PDP stuff, so you can continue to ask whatever the > hell you like for it. > > The prices in the book were based on a mixture of actual scarcity (i.e. > supply), demand, gut feeling, and past sales, in that order. At least > that is how I approached it when Michael consulted with me on the pricing. > I can't speak for Michael, as he had final say as to how to value each > machine since it was his book. I think he did a terrific job. The values > are reasonable. The values are based on what a machine might go for in > the real world, not what it would sell for on eBay if the seller was a > dealer and had overhead such as taxes and marketing and payroll, etc. > > Since when does ANY value guide take this into account? You are now > arguing for the sake of arguing. Just admin you're a dick and move on. > We'll forget about you soon enough. > > > Don't lament when you're out of work, when you have > > previously condemned that sector that provided you your jobs. Don't > > lament when you see the value of your retirement accounts decline in > > value when you condemn those companies that your very same account is > > invested in, decline in value, as you complain about their prices ( no > > competent fund manager invests funds in the average eBay seller ). This > > thing called the economy is something we are all in together. Soil that > > where you eat, and you may find the food no longer edible. > > Ok, George Bush, we'll allow you to attack Iraq just to get you to shut > up. > > > > > You know, I used to believe that if everybody worked together, everybody > > could see some benefit from that cooperative relationship, whether that > > be parts you have a use for, or cash to buy parts you want, etc. There > > have been times that I could have run something by you that would have > > helped you out, but previous contact seemed to indicate that you were > > all about yourself only. I have since given up. My impression was that > > you can't stand to see anyone else realize any benefit from their > > contribution. You want it all for yourself. So you have closed off those > > opportunities. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 8 15:50:03 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Appearance on TechTV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <247794497.20021108155221@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 8, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, chris wrote: > > well gee... maybe if I had received this BEFORE 9:15 on the 7th I could > > have taped it and dumped to MPEG for everyone. > > Blame it on the person respobsible for moderating messages from > non-subsribers :) Yeah, my fault. I'm currently the only moderator, and there is a lag. Usually the lag is <= 24 hours, but sometimes it can be as much as a few days. My excuse: I'm a little more than one month away from finishing college. That task must come first, and it does exercise that right annoyingly often. -- Jeffrey Sharp From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 8 16:13:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: OT: Phones (was re: BBSs & PPP) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Remember to pay the ASCAP royalties so you don't get your ass sued off. > > Oh, right. Damn pesky lawyers. > > > This is why some phone systems provide music-on-hold that is synthesized > > classical music. There's no royalty to pay. > > Maybe I'll just pipe in Commodore SID music instead (from an actual > Commodore 64 even! ;) I was about to scream, but then realized that a SID is much better than the other 8bit choices of the time, like The NES's synth, or (shudder) a PC speaker. Square waves are _not_ friends of my ears... unless you find a good way to synth using 'magic sinewaves' (courtesy of Don Lancaster: http://www.tinaja.com/magsn01.asp). However, I doubt you'll get enough speed to calcuate them on the fly on a classic 8bit machine (of course you could generate them in advance, but that'd be cheating ;-). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Nov 8 16:27:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021108143802.36cf7bbc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021108222903.87733.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> I vote for this as a candidate for "best find of the decade". --- Joe wrote: > OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only > Friday! > > Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix > 31 calculators, all NIB! > > Found these at a garage sale. They appear to be > from the estate of a Tektronix employee that bought > them in Beaverton and shipped them to Orlando when > he was transferred here. Two are "normal" 31s, the > other is a different color and is marked "Coulter > Model 43 Data Converter". It has options 1, 4, Pa > and Pb installed. I've posted a couple of pictures > of it at . > I haven't checked out the other two yet but they > also seem to be well optioned out and have what I > think is the interface to connect the TM500 modular > instruments. > > Joe :-) > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Nov 8 16:57:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available fororder from VCF Message-ID: <20021108230134.UGUC7225.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > I apologize for failing to adequately trim the message that I appended > mine to. The juxtaposition made an implication about Dick that should > instead have been the option of each person to draw their own conclusion. > > > It should be a cause for concern that after ubiquitously voicing unpopular > opinions about every issue (such as that MICROS~1 products did "not have > security holes"), that he would spam all with a virus and disappear > without a trace. ROFL! Thanks Fred! That really made my day! Glen 0/0 From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 8 17:11:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: Message-ID: <200211082313.SAA70538301@shell.TheWorld.com> >I asked the seller if he could translate the part numbers (the only >things currently listed) into product names so as to assist the >selection/ decision process. He's looking into it. it'll all be over in >a week anyway, but its worth some effort. Yes, the auction may be over in a week, but if there are no bids, we might still be able to convince him to hold on for a *little* time more to allow us to put together money for it and space to store it (and of course the effort put in to move it) Megan From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 8 17:27:02 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: from "Loboyko Steve" at Nov 08, 2002 02:29:03 PM Message-ID: <200211082329.gA8NTXE06175@shell1.aracnet.com> I still like the old TI Programmers calculator that I found a few years back at the "Tektronix Country Store" (where they surplus stuff). Nice LED model, that can convert between the various number systems (I never was that great with Decimal to/from anything). It has the added benifit of being almost identical to the one my Dad had when I was growing up. Except for the battery, it works fine and came with the box, manual, and a power brick. Does anyone still make "Programmers Calculators"? I've got either a Sharp or a Cassio that I bought new 12+ years ago. I forget which brand it is, but it was the one I really liked. It was basically the battery operated/enhanced version of a solar powered one I'd had in High School (which unfortunatly died). I'd love to find a good solar powered one, as I can never remember to pick up batteries for it, as a result I've not been able to use it in years :^/ Zane > > I vote for this as a candidate for "best find of the > decade". > > --- Joe wrote: > > OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only > > Friday! > > > > Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix > > 31 calculators, all NIB! > > > > Found these at a garage sale. They appear to be > > from the estate of a Tektronix employee that bought > > them in Beaverton and shipped them to Orlando when > > he was transferred here. Two are "normal" 31s, the > > other is a different color and is marked "Coulter > > Model 43 Data Converter". It has options 1, 4, Pa > > and Pb installed. I've posted a couple of pictures > > of it at . > > I haven't checked out the other two yet but they > > also seem to be well optioned out and have what I > > think is the interface to connect the TM500 modular > > instruments. > > > > Joe :-) > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Nov 8 17:51:02 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3DCC4ECD.67429E1C@adelphia.net> already did... have a Vaxstation 3520 there.. hehe "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > Get rid of the sofa. > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, David Barnes wrote: > > > geez... thats about 5 minutes from me!!!! but alas, I have an apt and no place to > > store them... > > > > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > See below Christian's message for the information on 5 Data General > > > Eclipse's waiting to be scrapped after this weekend. > > > > > > Can anyone rescue them? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:11:10 -0500 > > > From: Christian Fandt > > > To: Sellam Ismail > > > Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > > > > > Hey Sellam! > > > > > > Sorry I can't talk much at the moment, but I would like to ask you to pass > > > this on to the ClassicCmp list. I cannot take the gear but it should > > > _definitely_ be rescued. Wish I had the space (and time too! This is short > > > notice for me.). Guess the fella found my email address through the Rescue > > > List or maybe a web search, or ? > > > > > > East Aurora is a suburb of Buffalo, it's about five to ten miles southeast > > > of the city and about ten or so miles "inland" from Interstate 90. > > > > > > Best regards to everyone. I promise to write to you, Sellam, later in the > > > Fall to see what's been happenin' lately. > > > > > > -Chris > > > > > > NNNN > > > > > > -- -- > > > > > > >From: "Eric Kotz" > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped > > > >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:50:54 -0500 > > > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 > > > >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 > > > > tests=none > > > > version=2.31 > > > >X-Spam-Level: > > > > > > > >Hello, > > > > I saw you are interested in many Data General systems. Where my dad > > > >works, they have a total of 5 Data General Eclipse systems that > > > >are being scrapped. 3 work, two are parts machines (parts machines are > > > >missing the actual racks). I see you guys want Data General hardware-I'm > > > >wondering if you have any interest in these machines. > > > >These would be free for the taking. We also have like lots of > > > >disks/manuals/etc for them. > > > > > > > >Now the caveat:These MUST DISAPPEAR by the weekend. If they are still here > > > >monday, they are scrap. Personally, I can't bear to see these go for > > > >scrap-they are so unique, and the fact that they work still must be more > > > >unique. They were in service up until a month ago. > > > > > > > >The machines are in East Aurora, NY (about an hour from you). If you have > > > >any interest, or know > > > >someone that does, please send me an email, or call me at 585-758-3274 > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Eric Kotz > > > >eric@erickotz.com > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > > > >This message has been ROT-26 encrypted for security purposes. Any attempt > > > >to decrypt this message is illegal under the DMCA. > > > > > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > > > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > > > Member of Antique Wireless Association > > > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > > > > -- > > David Barnes > > davebarnes@adelphia.net > > > > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru > > and collector of DEC equipment > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Nov 8 18:12:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3DCC4ECD.67429E1C@adelphia.net> References: <3DCC4ECD.67429E1C@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20021109003944.GA2940@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe David Barnes, from writings of Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 06:54:53PM -0500: > already did... have a Vaxstation 3520 there.. hehe Ok, just store the VAXstation 3520 on top of the DG's cabinet. That takes care of one of the systems. Now then,.. for the others: Surely you have a refridgerator, and that must be as large as one of the DG systems. If you get rid of the refridgerator, then you'll have space for another of the systems; it's winter, so you can store food outside on your balcony or fire escape (hopefully you have either one, as you'll need it as well for a following suggestion!) Do you have a bathtub? If so, then you can disassemble some of the other systems and store them there. You can always take sponge baths instead and wash your hair in the sink (or, just use a hose and take a bath on the fire escape or balcony if you have one or the other. See, there's always a way to find space for a few more systems, :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 8 18:19:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021107062342.04fe3ac0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <7616726271.20021108182113@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 8, 2002, Mail List wrote: > Now Jeffrey, > > charging exhorbitant prices for things that ClassicCmpers like > > With you having an email address of... sales@sub... > (which has a pretty commercial ring to it) Yup. I wanted a way to filter ebay-related mail into its own folder. I was going to call it ebay@sub..., but then I thought that I might use it for something other than ebay. So like any decently pedantic programmer, I abstracted the name. I'm glad you think it is pretty. > That you use for your eBay sales under the ID ... xor-ax-ax Yup. > Parting out systems (you pick up at surplus?), and selling the parts on > eBay (for as much as you can get for them?) (as evidenced by no low > "Buy-It-Now" prices?) I go places occasionally (usually scrap or surplus shops) to get stuff for my collection. I take what I can get, which may be the whole machine or just parts, depending on variables like physical access to the machine, my transportation, and the condition of the machine. I keep what I want, and the rest goes to other people. I choose eBay to get the word out, since many (most?) list members and many non-members browse its categories. I don't greatly care how much money my auctions make. I'm happy if the proceeds pay for the trip I took to get the items. Being a "poor student", sometimes this is the only way that such trips can be done. So I always have dirt-cheap starting bids. I've tried BIN before, but to me, BIN seems greedy: "If you pay me more, I'll break from regular auction protocol and give you the item". I most certainly do not seek "as much as I can get" for any item. By eBay's rules, if some schmuck wants to place ridiculously inflated bids on one of my items, he can. It has happened before. *cough* But I don't expect that, and it isn't common. > http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=xor-ax-ax&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=0 Coincidentally, your link provides evidence for my point. Except for that one strange Apple II board that unexpectedly went for $20, the high bid average across the listed auctions is $3.28. I would venture that your average item price is several orders of magnitude greater. > Which incidently was EXACTLY the same thing THAT I WAS DOING. Nope. Reseller prices are highway robbery. Mine are not. Not even close. > And I did sell a part for $1 one time. Do you feel that was exhorbitantly > high? Just once? Should we wipe the serial killer's slate clean because he once helped an old lady cross the street? > How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? It is granted to me by the First Amendment, I believe. > That time I talked to you on the phone, you wanted MORE for your CMD (disk > only) controller than I ever could have gotten for one. You're a reseller. I don't like resellers. You wanted me to end my auction and sell directly to you. However, I was not about to let you so directly profit from me. I quoted you a high price, and it discouraged you. There's a taste of your own medicine, buddy! During that phone call, I also did not like the way you tried to recruit me into your DEC reseller business, promising great profits if I were to kiss your ass. > > Maybe it is to have access to equipment-available announcements in the > > hope that you can get there first and resell for serious green. > > I only ever picked up one system. I traded that system to a hobbyist up in > Maryland for only a few parts that he didn't need. Is your scheming truly that unsuccessful? What about the time you tried to take advantage of our patriotism and capitalize on the emotions surrounding the first anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attack? Read this: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-September/007165.html And what about the time you tried to bargain with Doc Shipley's boss to steal Doc's PDP-11/93 right out from under him? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-September/007259.html Especially after reading that last post, it seems that you are possible of making quite an effort to exploit the members of this list. I find it hard to believe that you have had zero success at defrauding us. > I know I saw you said that you were a poor student. How do you know that > my situation was not similar. You told me so during our phone call. > can't stand to see anyone else realize any benefit from their > contribution. Not exactly; I can't stand to see YOU realize any benefit from me. > Remember that biblical quote ... Let he who is without sin cast the first > stone.? No, I'm agnostic. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 8 18:24:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: ENOUGH! was: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <3DCBFB4A.9914DDF0@rain.org> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20021108115735.05113930@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3DCBFB4A.9914DDF0@rain.org> Message-ID: <8017019913.20021108182607@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 8, 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > There is no excuse for starting another flame war on this listserver. Well, the cctech subscribers certainly aren't seeing any of this. But consider it a public service announcement, yet another warning about Mr. List's activities. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 8 18:29:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <200211082329.gA8NTXE06175@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:29 PM 11/8/02 -0800, you wrote: >I still like the old TI Programmers calculator that I found a few years back >at the "Tektronix Country Store" (where they surplus stuff). FWIW I think that at least two of these Tek 31s came from that store. The paper work with one of them has "List $4550.oo Sell $450.oo Brand New" written on it. I remember Rick Bensene telling me about the sale at Tektronix's store and I think that was the price they were selling them for. Also two of these have been stamped "No Service SALVAGE Available" in a cartouche with the Tektronix world logo. On the subject of the programmer's calculators. My favorite is the HP-16C or the HP-41 with the HP-IL Developement module. Either one would let you set and convert to and from ANY number base. Both also had piles of binary functions and operations built in. I think the 16C would handle something like 52 bit numbers and I think the 41 would handle even larger numbers. The 16C was nice since it was the basic machine as the 12C/15C/11C and was small and it had practically infinite battery life. I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to keep it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. Joe From akb+lists.classiccmp at imap1.mirror.to Fri Nov 8 18:52:44 2002 From: akb+lists.classiccmp at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.classiccmp@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Symbolics disk tool and ifs tape generating code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: mac.wood@t-online.de (Marc Holz) writes: > I'm desperatly looking for the Symbolics Disktool Software for addding > non Symbolics MFM disks to my 3640 machine. > I hope there are still some people with Symbolics Lisp Machines out there > who could help me, I have an acquaintence who used to work at symbolics; I forwarded him your question and was told that you might with to subscribe to the Symbolics Lisp Users Group mailing list and ask there; if that does not help, you can write me and ask that the message be forwarded on to the symbolics inc. alumni list. The mailing list is slug@ai.sri.com. It only accepts posts from members, and you send mail to slug-request to join. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Nov 8 18:54:33 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Hitachi HM6116 Datasheet References: <3DC5C0C0.1020806@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <3DCB8E78.6030102@Vishay.com> Jose, sorry for the late answer: I just got your mail, four days after you sent it. I get cctalk and cctech messages in bunches of several dozens, and I am certain they must be buffered somewhere, but didn't yet have the time to figure out where. The databook is still available. I'll take it to the office for scanning next week, and then you'll get one or more mail(s) with (an) attachment(s). However, I will not post the attachments to the list (fear not, folks, I know this is a no-no!). Meanwhile, you may want to check http://www.coe.uncc.edu/~sjkuyath/MC68000/msd_88.htm - this is for the HCM6116 from Motorola, but might provide similar information. Please let me know if this helps, or if I still need to scan the pages. At least, we still need to translate the Hitachi -4 suffix (access time) to one of the -12, -15, or -20 suffixes used by Motorola. Have a nice weekend! Regards, Andreas Jose Luis Collado wrote: > Andreas, searching the web for the HM6116P-4 2Kx8 SRAM dataseet, I found > an emial in a message board form you stating that you had the 1982 > Hitachi Memory Databook. > > Could you send me the datasheet ? I would really appreciate it. > > Regards, > Eng. Jose Luis Collado > Buenos Aires, Argentina. > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 8 18:56:06 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Xerox PARC Message-ID: <200211082106.gA8L6h8I009870@spies.com> > What your missing is the legal status of the work done at PARC. It was > in (large) part done with grant money This is the second time that you have said this, Bob. In all of the years I've been collecting information on PARC's research computers, I have never seen any mention of any money from outside of Xerox Corportation being used to fund their research. Where, exactly, did you see this information? There are ties between SRI and PARC, esp through the people from Englebart's lab that went to PARC, and it is well documented that his research was DARPA funded. From supra_turbo at cox.net Fri Nov 8 18:57:42 2002 From: supra_turbo at cox.net (Aaron Masciangelo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005201c2876d$6503d450$6401a8c0@cx2216988a> If it does not come from a www.ebay.com link, then it is NOT EBay. This link is from overgrow.com, so DO NOT click on this link. EBay themselves warn users of this kind of attack when you register to be an EBay user. Always look for www.ebay.com!! Aaron 89T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: "Classic Computers" ; ; ; "Buick GS List" Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] > Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if > you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of > info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, > etc!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > -------- Original Message -------- > From: - Fri Nov 08 01:57:42 2002 > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 > Return-Path: > Delivered-To: fernande@internet1.net > Received: from EyeDea01 (165.113.252.64.snet.net [64.252.113.165]) by > mailhost.internet1.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3149CB122 for > ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:55 -0500 (EST) > From: aw-verify@ebay.com > X-Spam-Status: No, tests=bogofilter > Subject: Access restricted: Verify your account information. > To: fernande@internet1.net > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf"; charset="US-ASCII" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Reply-To: aw-verify@ebay.com > Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:39 -0500 > X-Priority: 3 > X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B > X-Mailer: Foxmail > Message-Id: <20021108064555.3149CB122@mailhost.internet1.net> > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > > > > Dear eBay* *User, > > During our regular update and verification of the accounts, we couldn't > verify your current information. Either your information has changed or > it is incomplete. > > As a result, your access to bid or buy on eBay has been restricted. To > start using your eBay account fully, *please update and verify your > information by clicking below* : > > https://scgi.ebay.com/saw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?VerifyInformation > > &raccept=0> > > Regards, > *eBay* > > > ***Please Do Not Reply To This E-Mail As You Will Not Receive A > Response*** > > > ++ > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@supras.com with > 'unsubscribe supras' as the body of the message. From spedraja at mail.ono.es Fri Nov 8 18:59:14 2002 From: spedraja at mail.ono.es (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: VAX manuals found References: <19b.b830150.2afd207a@aol.com> Message-ID: <03dd01c286f5$f2b8c4e0$48312b3e@portatil> Hi. Could you scan the Decserver 300 and RRD42 manuals ? Greetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:13 PM Subject: VAX manuals found > I came across these DEC VAX manuals while looking for something else. > Am not selling, but will provide information from these if needed > non-commercially. > > DECserver 300 > RF30 / RF71 > R215F > KFQSA > BA46 > RRD42 > StorageWorks family user guide > VMS 5.5-2 release notes > VMS 5.5 upgrade > > From aek at spies.com Fri Nov 8 19:00:48 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Corvus Developers kit that was Ebay Message-ID: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> > Did anyone here from the list win that auction the manuals from the auction are on line at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/corvus From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 8 19:03:39 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5519386756.20021108190533@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 8, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > But who values the boards? Maybe someone who has most of 'em already, like yourself. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 8 19:06:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> I can do $100 now and more later, up to 15%. My future employer now doesn't want me to start until December. :-( -- Jeffrey Sharp From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 8 19:07:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021108074033.00aa3120@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > Now Jeffrey, > > > Maybe it is to have access to equipment-available announcements in the > > hope that you can get there first and resell for serious green. > > I only ever picked up one system. I traded that system to a hobbyist up > in Maryland for only a few parts that he didn't need. No cash whatsoever. OK. At this point, I gotta holler "Bullshit." This whole little world has heard my side of the story, and even if nobody else cares, I'm really curious to hear your account of several emails and phone calls from you to Mark Rodriguez of MDR Consulting this past February. They concerned a PDP-11/93 that I had asked about on the list. My post to the list - which I have archived if your memory fails you - clearly indicates that while I was excited about the system, I had no idea that it was valuable. Your emails to Mark - which I can produce as well - partially quoted my post, but in such a way that it appeared that I knew the machine's value and intended to cheat my employer. Your phone calls, according to Mr. Rodriguez, furthered that impression. In both the email messages and the phone calls you offered to deal directly with Mark, cutting me out of the picture. What's *your* story, Mr. List? 'Splain this one for me. Doc Shipley MDR Consulting, Inc. Austin, Texas From donm at cts.com Fri Nov 8 19:09:08 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <200211082329.gA8NTXE06175@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I still like the old TI Programmers calculator that I found a few years back > at the "Tektronix Country Store" (where they surplus stuff). Nice LED > model, that can convert between the various number systems (I never was that > great with Decimal to/from anything). It has the added benifit of being > almost identical to the one my Dad had when I was growing up. Except for > the battery, it works fine and came with the box, manual, and a power brick. > > Does anyone still make "Programmers Calculators"? I've got either a Sharp > or a Cassio that I bought new 12+ years ago. I forget which brand it is, > but it was the one I really liked. It was basically the battery > operated/enhanced version of a solar powered one I'd had in High School > (which unfortunatly died). I'd love to find a good solar powered one, as I > can never remember to pick up batteries for it, as a result I've not been > able to use it in years :^/ I have a Casio CM-100 solar model that I bought 12-14 years ago. It is a marvellous 'crutch'! - don > Zane > > > > > > I vote for this as a candidate for "best find of the > > decade". > > > > --- Joe wrote: > > > OK I'm claiming the prize now and it's only > > > Friday! > > > > > > Top this: Not one, not two, but THREE Tektronix > > > 31 calculators, all NIB! > > > > > > Found these at a garage sale. They appear to be > > > from the estate of a Tektronix employee that bought > > > them in Beaverton and shipped them to Orlando when > > > he was transferred here. Two are "normal" 31s, the > > > other is a different color and is marked "Coulter > > > Model 43 Data Converter". It has options 1, 4, Pa > > > and Pb installed. I've posted a couple of pictures > > > of it at . > > > I haven't checked out the other two yet but they > > > also seem to be well optioned out and have what I > > > think is the interface to connect the TM500 modular > > > instruments. > > > > > > Joe :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 8 19:10:41 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Nov 08, 2002 07:34:56 PM Message-ID: <200211090108.gA9184G12009@shell1.aracnet.com> > At 03:29 PM 11/8/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I still like the old TI Programmers calculator that I found a few years back > >at the "Tektronix Country Store" (where they surplus stuff). > > FWIW I think that at least two of these Tek 31s came from that store. The > paper work with one of them has "List $4550.oo Sell $450.oo Brand New" > written on it. I remember Rick Bensene telling me about the sale at > Tektronix's store and I think that was the price they were selling them for. > Also two of these have been stamped "No Service SALVAGE Available" in a > cartouche with the Tektronix world logo. Many, many years ago (back when it was only open to Tek employee's) the Country Store used to rock! My Dad and I'd spend a lot of Saturday mornings there, we'd get in line before it opened, and they had a dumpster out front that was loads of fun to go through while waiting. In the 70's and early 80's there was all kinds of interesting stuff there. I've still got some tools and other stuff that I got back then. One of the best items I got was a hand held IBM card punch, new in the box (and it still is). I still remember the rows of test equipment, and the occasional computer equipment that they'd have back then. I've been there a few times since then, but besides the calculator the only good thing I've found was an old gutted PDP-11 rack. Though when I got married a couple years ago, my folks found me a totally awsome computer desk there! I don't think I've been back since the guy that had run it for as long as I can remember retired a few years back. Part of the problem is I work when it's open, and the other problem is I'm not sure where they moved to (keep meaning to ask my Dad). Zane From emu at ecubics.com Fri Nov 8 19:13:01 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! References: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> Joe wrote: > >On the subject of the programmer's calculators. My favorite is the HP-16C >the HP-41 with the HP-IL Developement module. Either one would let you set >and convert to and from ANY number base. Both also had piles of binary >functions and operations built in. I think the 16C would handle something >like 52 bit numbers and I think the 41 would handle even larger numbers. >The 16C was nice since it was the basic machine as the 12C/15C/11C and >was small and it had practically infinite battery life. I have a 16c here. Nice little piece. What is the difference between the hp-41cv & hp41-cx ? >I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to keep >it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. On the TI side, I have the "TI-52 scientific". Does all the hex/dec/oct/bin conversions and some other stuff. VERY happy with it. Since I bought it (10-15 (?) years ago) didn't change the battery. cheers From ss at allegro.com Fri Nov 8 19:14:45 2002 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: SPARCbook and other finds Today In-Reply-To: <019f01c286cc$196d5080$a1000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3DCBEFCA.26280.17F6A23@localhost> Re: > Today I got 2 Tadpole Sparcbook laptops ( one is good for parts only and good find! If anyone ever finds a Tadpole PrecisionBook, I'd be interested in it! thanks, Stan From dittman at dittman.net Fri Nov 8 19:21:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:47 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: from "emanuel stiebler" at Nov 08, 2002 06:11:52 PM Message-ID: <200211090116.gA91Gbtl000477@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I have a 16c here. Nice little piece. Does anyone have a PDF of the HP-16C manual? I've seen a CD for sale with all the manuals, but I just need the one. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Nov 8 19:23:00 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Fwd: Data General Eclipse in East Aurora, NY being scrapped (fwd) References: <3DCC4ECD.67429E1C@adelphia.net> <20021109003944.GA2940@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3DCC6414.E0E488A8@adelphia.net> Good suggestions.. never thought of those... and I can park a really big system in my parking spot in the lot, and who needs a car anyways right? "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Quothe David Barnes, from writings of Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 06:54:53PM -0500: > > already did... have a Vaxstation 3520 there.. hehe > > Ok, just store the VAXstation 3520 on top of the DG's cabinet. That > takes care of one of the systems. Now then,.. for the others: Surely > you have a refridgerator, and that must be as large as one of the DG > systems. If you get rid of the refridgerator, then you'll have space > for another of the systems; it's winter, so you can store food outside > on your balcony or fire escape (hopefully you have either one, as > you'll need it as well for a following suggestion!) Do you have a > bathtub? If so, then you can disassemble some of the other systems > and store them there. You can always take sponge baths instead and > wash your hair in the sink (or, just use a hose and take a bath on the > fire escape or balcony if you have one or the other. See, there's > always a way to find space for a few more systems, :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From gmphillips at earthlink.net Fri Nov 8 19:34:05 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Mike 2 8008 Computer on EBAY Message-ID: <000a01c28791$594e8140$0100a8c0@sys1> Not sure if anyone here might be interested in this. Never seen one on EBAY before. Didn't this machine show up around the same time as the Mark-8? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2067562893 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021108/8221462d/attachment.html From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Nov 8 20:31:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What!? I didn't notice! Or maybe I just forgot? Naw, I would have > remembered that. It was the big 1800 pound thing on the back of my trailer. I was actually just transporting it (actually half of it - the other half is still at RCS) back home after getting it delivered to Providence. We were in (another) space crunch, and it had to make the trip that weekend. Hey, here's an idea - hold VCFeast 2.0 in the RCS mill, if a big room is available. It has that wonderful DEC Maynard look about it. And we will not have to move either the KL10D or the Univac 9300. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 8 20:35:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <32809.64.169.63.74.1036809465.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have a 16c here. Nice little piece. Yes. AFAIK, the HP-16C is unique among calculators with base conversion, in that it supports unsigned, ones complement, and twos complement arithmetic on a word size adjustable from one to sixty four bits. And it has all the logical operations, shifts and rotates, etc. Many other calculators have some simple base conversion functions, but not that compare with the HP-16C. Of course, on a programmable calculator you could implement a lot of that yourself if you had to, but with the HP-16C it's built in. Jake Schwartz has written a good 16C simulator for the HP-48, but I haven't seen any other good ones. > What is the difference between the hp-41cv & hp41-cx ? The HP-41CX is essentially a 41CV with the HP 82180A Extended Function Module and HP 82182A Time Module built in. They added some additional functions as well. Unfortunately they did NOT build the equivalent of two HP 82181A Extended Memory Modules into it; many people wired them in themselves. > On the TI side, I have the "TI-52 scientific". Does all the > hex/dec/oct/bin conversions and some other stuff. VERY happy with it. > Since I bought it (10-15 (?) years ago) didn't change the battery. At first I thought you were referring to the TI SR-52 programmable calculator from the mid-1970s, which didn't have such things. But on reading the rest of your message I realize that the TI-52 must be a different calculator, presumably with an LCD display. Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 8 20:46:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021108214539.44c766fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:11 PM 11/8/02 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >>On the subject of the programmer's calculators. My favorite is the HP-16C > >the HP-41 with the HP-IL Developement module. Either one would let you >set > >and convert to and from ANY number base. Both also had piles of binary > >functions and operations built in. I think the 16C would handle something > >like 52 bit numbers and I think the 41 would handle even larger numbers. > >The 16C was nice since it was the basic machine as the 12C/15C/11C and > >was small and it had practically infinite battery life. > >I have a 16c here. Nice little piece. > >What is the difference between the hp-41cv & hp41-cx ? The CX has the Time and X-Function modules built in (along with a few added functions such as more Catalogs). But the binary and Base functions are part of the HP-IL Developement module (and a few other modules later) and can be used on the C, CV or CX if you have the ROM installed. > > >I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to keep > >it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. > > >On the TI side, I have the "TI-52 scientific". Does all the >hex/dec/oct/bin conversions and some other stuff. VERY happy with it. >Since I bought it (10-15 (?) years ago) didn't change the battery. But you have had to recharge it haven't you? The 16C uses NON-rechargeable batteries and one set of batteries will COMMONLY last ten years or more. Joe > >cheers > > From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Nov 8 20:53:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: OT: Florida junkyard Message-ID: I received a lead on some interesting junk located in Iverness, Florida, and I need some eyes and ears. Is anyone local to that area? The interesting junk in question is an AN/FPS-7 radar set (minus antenna). This is a very large, powerful, 1950s air defense set - look for lots of very large waveguide. And if you go to the yard - who knows, you might see some cool DECjunk. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 8 21:05:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: OT: Florida junkyard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021108221155.46270f2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm about 100 miles from there. AFIK there's no one else on the CC list that's any closer. Joe At 09:55 PM 11/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >I received a lead on some interesting junk located in Iverness, Florida, >and I need some eyes and ears. Is anyone local to that area? > >The interesting junk in question is an AN/FPS-7 radar set (minus antenna). >This is a very large, powerful, 1950s air defense set - look for lots of >very large waveguide. > >And if you go to the yard - who knows, you might see some cool DECjunk. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Nov 8 21:36:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <20021108211530.40775.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DCC8322.86AA4AE3@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- John Allain wrote: > > I'd be willing to pay a 10% share for 10% of the lot provided the > > right things are in there. > I might be, too. Dunno how we'd handle shipping/storage/etc, but > it's an idea. Count me in for 10%. Who's going to organize it? > Better be someone close... > > We could start by assigning values to all the items... > That could work. I'm mostly focused on PDP-8 stuff (there's a little > in there, not lots), but I do have DEC hardware spanning the 1964-1995 > timeframe. Very little stuff newer than that, though. Jerome Fine replies: There does not seem to me to be much that I could use of the PDP-11 boards - except maybe the RQDX1 that I think I recognized. So I doubt that I would want to pay for a 10% share. However, there seems to be enough interest already for 35% of the total. And some have expressed an interest to contribute something just to save the load. Might a lottery be acceptable that would help if 100% is not subscribed? Depending on how much could be raised by selling tickets for $ 10 each that gave one chance at a 10% share with any extra providing for storage until the load was divided up and shipped. Everyone could buy as many tickets as they want with 35 tickets being needed to each additional 10% that is not subscribed. While the above is only a suggestion and is probably not a sufficient overall method of handling, it might just be useful enough to start someone thinking about a complete solution. I will buy one ticket even though I doubt there is anything I can use. If sufficient others post a non-refundable deposit for 10% based on there being enough of interest for them, there might be sufficient to bid for the whole lot. An initial suggestion would be $ 35 as a deposit for a 10% share. You need many fewer people this way. Only 100 total against 350 for a lottery. Just some suggestions!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Nov 8 21:54:01 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: OT: Florida junkyard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021108225526.01b182e8@pop-server> We live about 40 or 50 miles away in Spring Hill. Not sure if we can get there but maybe. Do you have an address or description of where it is and a phone number? Gene Ehrich At 09:55 PM 11/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I received a lead on some interesting junk located in Iverness, Florida, >and I need some eyes and ears. Is anyone local to that area? > >The interesting junk in question is an AN/FPS-7 radar set (minus antenna). >This is a very large, powerful, 1950s air defense set - look for lots of >very large waveguide. > >And if you go to the yard - who knows, you might see some cool DECjunk. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org http://www.voicenet.com/~generic From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 8 22:12:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order Message-ID: <3DCC3746.1773.4195A513@localhost> This seemed to not get thru a classic talk screening. Could you give me reasons why this shouldn't have been posted ? ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Lawrence Walker To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order from VCF Send reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Date sent: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:12:23 -0600 No I think you're wrong here Sellam. He's more like genital lice. A parasite. What is more interesting is that he had the audacity to try and discredit the value of Michaels book on a list of classic computer enthusiasts. Michaels contributions to the computer community go back to the days of Micro 80 and his newsletter is a valued resource. As is obvious this creep's main concern is making a buck off recent interest in older computers despite all the appeals to the higher virtues of his contribution to blah, blah, blah. The usual tactic of a charlatan. A while back an interesting poster to the list, a scrap dealer who could have offerred us insight into the workings of that world was harassed off the list. I viewed that as unfortunate but slime like this who selfservingly slag an info- source valueable cause it might undermine their preying on unknowledgeable collectors is beyond redemption. Lawrence > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Mail List wrote: > > > How is it you feel you have a right to pass judgement on me? > > Because you're a dick. > > > No, I was concerned that the data sources might be incomplete and fail > > to "conveniently" acknowledge the commercial market sector. You know, > > that portion of the economy that is encumbered with real expenses ( like > > marketing expenses, payroll, taxes, etc. ) and that provides jobs ( for > > those that still have one ) and therefore has to charge prices for their > > goods and services which allows them to meet those expenses and remain in > > operation. > > Look, the book is called _Collectible *MICROCOMPUTERS*_. Sure the LSI-11 is a > microcomputer, but that was conveniently left out. There is no pricing > information for PDP stuff, so you can continue to ask whatever the hell you > like for it. > > The prices in the book were based on a mixture of actual scarcity (i.e. > supply), demand, gut feeling, and past sales, in that order. At least > that is how I approached it when Michael consulted with me on the pricing. I > can't speak for Michael, as he had final say as to how to value each machine > since it was his book. I think he did a terrific job. The values are > reasonable. The values are based on what a machine might go for in the real > world, not what it would sell for on eBay if the seller was a dealer and had > overhead such as taxes and marketing and payroll, etc. > > Since when does ANY value guide take this into account? You are now > arguing for the sake of arguing. Just admin you're a dick and move on. > We'll forget about you soon enough. > > > Don't lament when you're out of work, when you have > > previously condemned that sector that provided you your jobs. Don't > > lament when you see the value of your retirement accounts decline in > > value when you condemn those companies that your very same account is > > invested in, decline in value, as you complain about their prices ( no > > competent fund manager invests funds in the average eBay seller ). This > > thing called the economy is something we are all in together. Soil that > > where you eat, and you may find the food no longer edible. > > Ok, George Bush, we'll allow you to attack Iraq just to get you to shut > up. > > > > > You know, I used to believe that if everybody worked together, everybody > > could see some benefit from that cooperative relationship, whether that be > > parts you have a use for, or cash to buy parts you want, etc. There have > > been times that I could have run something by you that would have helped you > > out, but previous contact seemed to indicate that you were all about > > yourself only. I have since given up. My impression was that you can't stand > > to see anyone else realize any benefit from their contribution. You want it > > all for yourself. So you have closed off those opportunities. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > ------- End of forwarded message ------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 8 22:24:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <005201c2876d$6503d450$6401a8c0@cx2216988a> Message-ID: <3DCC3A16.27879.41A0A0F3@localhost> Bullshit ! E-Pay is making enough money that it should seek out and desrtoy these kind of predators that ply on it's name. Just as much as the corporate software giants search out those sites with temerity enough to publish their software and wipe them out. Lawr3ence > If it does not come from a www.ebay.com link, then it is NOT EBay. This > link is from overgrow.com, so DO NOT click on this link. EBay themselves > warn users of this kind of attack when you register to be an EBay user. > > Always look for www.ebay.com!! > > Aaron > 89T > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chad Fernandez" > To: "Classic Computers" ; ; > ; "Buick GS List" > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:36 AM > Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your > account information.] > > > > Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if > > you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of > > info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, > > etc!! > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > From: - Fri Nov 08 01:57:42 2002 > > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > > X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 > > Return-Path: > > Delivered-To: fernande@internet1.net > > Received: from EyeDea01 (165.113.252.64.snet.net [64.252.113.165]) by > > mailhost.internet1.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3149CB122 for > > ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:55 -0500 (EST) > > From: aw-verify@ebay.com > > X-Spam-Status: No, tests=bogofilter > > Subject: Access restricted: Verify your account information. > > To: fernande@internet1.net > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > > boundary="=_NextPart_2rfkindysadvnqw3nerasdf"; charset="US-ASCII" > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Reply-To: aw-verify@ebay.com > > Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:45:39 -0500 > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B > > X-Mailer: Foxmail > > Message-Id: <20021108064555.3149CB122@mailhost.internet1.net> > > X-UIDL: Xm-!!JL7"!L5O"!\d*"! > > > > > > > > Dear eBay* *User, > > > > During our regular update and verification of the accounts, we couldn't > > verify your current information. Either your information has changed or > > it is incomplete. > > > > As a result, your access to bid or buy on eBay has been restricted. To > > start using your eBay account fully, *please update and verify your > > information by clicking below* : > > > > https://scgi.ebay.com/saw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?VerifyInformation > > > dll?&bidaccess=0&buyaccess=0&itemid=default&maxbid=default&makebidtype=5i488 > kgv&uachoice=1&lagoonemorebid=0 > > &raccept=0> > > Regards, > *eBay* > > > > ***Please Do Not Reply To This E-Mail As You Will Not Receive A > Response*** > > > > ++ > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@supras.com with > > 'unsubscribe supras' as the body of the message. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Nov 8 22:35:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction Message-ID: <200211090437.XAA76137769@shell.TheWorld.com> >Hey, here's an idea - hold VCFeast 2.0 in the RCS mill, if a big room is >available. It has that wonderful DEC Maynard look about it. And we will >not have to move either the KL10D or the Univac 9300. I like that... I could display the 11/70 (decdatasystem570)... I'll have to get some time to work on it... Megan From emu at ecubics.com Fri Nov 8 22:43:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! References: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021108214539.44c766fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DCC938C.6040506@ecubics.com> Joe wrote: > At 06:11 PM 11/8/02 -0700, you wrote: >>On the TI side, I have the "TI-52 scientific". Does all the >>hex/dec/oct/bin conversions and some other stuff. VERY happy with it. >>Since I bought it (10-15 (?) years ago) didn't change the battery. > > >But you have had to recharge it haven't you? >The 16C uses NON-rechargeable batteries and one set of >batteries will COMMONLY last ten years or more. Really can't remember changing them. Just checked, this are two lr44 cells, and they definitely don't look new ;-) From emu at ecubics.com Fri Nov 8 22:45:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! References: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> <32809.64.169.63.74.1036809465.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DCC93C1.4040702@ecubics.com> Eric Smith wrote: >>On the TI side, I have the "TI-52 scientific". Does all the >>hex/dec/oct/bin conversions and some other stuff. VERY happy with it. >>Since I bought it (10-15 (?) years ago) didn't change the battery. > > > At first I thought you were referring to the TI SR-52 programmable > calculator from the mid-1970s, which didn't have such things. But > on reading the rest of your message I realize that the TI-52 must be a > different calculator, presumably with an LCD display. Yes. It has an LCD display. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Nov 8 23:12:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction In-Reply-To: <200211090437.XAA76137769@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Megan wrote: > > Hey, here's an idea - hold VCFeast 2.0 in the RCS mill, if a big room is > > available. It has that wonderful DEC Maynard look about it. And we will > > not have to move either the KL10D or the Univac 9300. > > I like that... I could display the 11/70 (decdatasystem570)... I'll > have to get some time to work on it... I also think this is a good idea. It would give the RCS folks a bit more publicity and general visibility. I'm not overly fond of Providence, RI, but the area near Brown University is nice. It'd still be easy for people to stay in Boston and catch a train (or drive) down to the event. I was really impressed with the RCS collection when I visited this summer--as for it's scope and diversity. The one gripe I'd have is that it's nearly impossible to view or access much of the equipment, as it's all packed in so tightly. Would they have the space to host VCF East 2.0? -brian. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 23:57:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> <005d01c2873b$68cd4b20$086dbd18@n4fs> <200211081050.58977.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3DCCA3F1.4060402@internet1.net> J.C.Wren wrote: > The whole problem with people like this is that we don't have public > executions when they're caught. > > Hell, I'd pay $2 a week for a lottery ticket to pull the switch on one of > these idiots. > > --John What about molten iron :-) Where is Dick when we need him? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 8 23:59:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: Message-ID: <3DCCA441.6000008@internet1.net> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > >>Watch out for this, guys! This was sent to me, and looks very real, if >>you click on the link. They ask for everything and more. The amount of >>info they ask for, would make it very easy to take your identity, money, >>etc!! >> >>Chad Fernandez >>Michigan, USA > > > Hopefully, you or someonr else will have passed this to eBay for them to > pursue. > - don Yes, I did send it to them. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Nov 9 00:03:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <005d01c2873b$68cd4b20$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <3DCB6979.8020805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108192521.009e7c60@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >using my full email address as my ebay name and ebay recommended that I >change it so unscrupulous characters cannot just send me spam or try and Its a good idea, also if you change your name "now" in 30 days the sunglasses are gone, and you look normal again. Waiting til you have a new ISP etc and need to change right away can be messy. Thats why I am michaelford not my email like I used to be. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Nov 9 00:14:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108220840.00aafbd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 > > > > Wow...is this seller legit? > > > > I wonder if this lot would fill even Sellam's warehouse? ;) > >It's already full. This would break me. > >But we should definitely get a pool going so we can at least make Mail >List pay way more for it than he wants to. I have no need of any of the parts myself, but I sure hate the bid or it gets scrapped idea. I wonder about the contents, in the best case its all the parts that break and need replacing, but in the worst case its all the parts LEFT OVER after selling everything that is likely to be needed as a replacement in 20 years. The reason I am saying this is that I ran across 400 boxes of Apple repair parts, bought them, and discovered that a good 90% of them will NEVER be used. People just aren't repairing 13" monitors, and a host of other odd bits. Look before you leap. From drido at optushome.com.au Sat Nov 9 00:16:00 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Signetics 2650 In-Reply-To: <20021108.103050.570.604377@webmail2.wlv.untd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021109171407.00ff1fd8@mail.optushome.com.au> At 06:30 PM 11/8/02 GMT, you wrote: >I'd like to find (buy) these IC's & equipment, development systems, etc for it. E.G. Instructor 50, SBC w/ optical card reader, etc. TIA Several old games systems used the 2650 and it's related display chips 2636 and 2637: The Emerson Arcadia 2001 (and it's many clones by Sheen, Hanimex and others) The Radofin 1292/1392 (and it's many clones by Fountain, Grandstand, Hanimex and others) If you just need some 2650 CPUs you could remove them from these consoles. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 9 00:33:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <3DCCA3F1.4060402@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > J.C.Wren wrote: > > The whole problem with people like this is that we don't have public > > executions when they're caught. > > > > Hell, I'd pay $2 a week for a lottery ticket to pull the switch on one of > > these idiots. > > > > --John > > > What about molten iron :-) Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' (Arnold the Robot) in Terminator 2 - and feet first, of course. Simply dumping them in (or iron on top of them) would be much too quick and probably not very painful death. I'd imagine you'd get cooked enough to be dead by the time your ass hit the 'vat of boiling goo'. Of course, electrocutions are always an interesting method of execution, especially when they screw up and weird stuff happens... I managed to make myself physically sick after reading about some botched executions on a website one day I was a bit too bored and morbidly fascinated. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 9 03:37:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare Message-ID: Well, this evening I fired up the PDP11/44 machine that I drug to VCF5 and back... it has moved into the house to live in what would have been the dining room, had I not made my office there. I thought of leaving it in the garage and just having the teminals in here, but it's getting regularly down into the teens and below at night, and Winter is hardly here yet... Anyway, after checking things out visually, I powered it on and the monitor immediately trapped to the console and halted. Ah. Schiess/Merde/Caca! Okay, no problem, something shook loose during all the moving and loading/unloading.. I powered down and re-seated the cards. Power back up, same thing. Starts to boot, traps to ODT, proc halts displaying the address it's stumbling over. I paused to give vent to language that is best represented by ASCII line noise. BUT: I have doc! I have Processor Manuals! I have the Technical Manual! And, using ODT, I found that the system was trying to boot the ESDI drives and failing. I'm so proud of myself - decoded the error codes, followed the registers to what was hurting... the Dilog 626 has died... tried to boot from the RL02 - that works fine. Got the other 626 from the other (dead) /44 chassis - now all is well. SO - I'm looking for another Unibus ESDI controller.... as well as all the other Junque. I'm supposed to have a SCSI card on the way - if it works it will have been a Good Deal. If it's trash - oh, well: keep looking. And there you have it. Cheers John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Nov 9 04:03:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: References: <3DCCA3F1.4060402@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021109020027.00ab7ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 01:37 AM 11/9/02 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > What about molten iron :-) > >Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in a steel mill and people would toss old pallets into molten iron carriers and about 10 feet up they would burst into flame. Falling into boiling water is much worse I am told. From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Sat Nov 9 04:48:01 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: VAX manuals found In-Reply-To: <03dd01c286f5$f2b8c4e0$48312b3e@portatil> References: <19b.b830150.2afd207a@aol.com> <03dd01c286f5$f2b8c4e0$48312b3e@portatil> Message-ID: <1036839004.14167.0.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> And KFQSA? regards ms On Fri, 2002-11-08 at 08:10, SPC wrote: > Hi. Could you scan the Decserver 300 and RRD42 manuals ? > > Greetings > > Sergio > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:13 PM > Subject: VAX manuals found > > > > I came across these DEC VAX manuals while looking for something else. > > Am not selling, but will provide information from these if needed > > non-commercially. > > > > DECserver 300 > > RF30 / RF71 > > R215F > > KFQSA > > BA46 > > RRD42 > > StorageWorks family user guide > > VMS 5.5-2 release notes > > VMS 5.5 upgrade > > > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de Sieben auf einen Streich From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 9 08:05:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare References: Message-ID: <002d01c287f9$56dfa8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > decoded the error codes, followed the registers ... Good for you > what was hurting... the Dilog 626 has died... Wonder what killed it? Did you have to uncable before shipping? These things don't grow on trees. John A. From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Nov 9 08:08:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Cray T3-D Supercomputer Gov't Auction Message-ID: <200211091409.JAA76299911@shell.TheWorld.com> >I also think this is a good idea. It would give the RCS folks a >bit more publicity and general visibility. I'm not overly fond of >Providence, RI, but the area near Brown University is nice. It'd >still be easy for people to stay in Boston and catch a train >(or drive) down to the event. There is also the proximity to the RICM... Megan From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 10:20:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Signetics 2650 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20021109171407.00ff1fd8@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Dr. Ido wrote: > Several old games systems used the 2650 and it's related display chips 2636 > and 2637: > > The Emerson Arcadia 2001 (and it's many clones by Sheen, Hanimex and others) > The Radofin 1292/1392 (and it's many clones by Fountain, Grandstand, > Hanimex and others) > > If you just need some 2650 CPUs you could remove them from these consoles. Except that those consoles are not like the Atari 2600, i.e. they are scarce. Arcadia 2001 systems go for at least $50 on eBay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 10:28:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: <002d01c287f9$56dfa8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > +AD4- decoded the error codes, followed the registers ... > > Good for you > > > +AD4- what was hurting... the Dilog 626 has died... AAAAGGGHHHH!!!! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 9 10:28:36 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021109020027.00ab7ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > At 01:37 AM 11/9/02 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > > What about molten iron :-) > > > >Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' > > > Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in > a steel mill and people would toss old pallets into molten iron carriers > and about 10 feet up they would burst into flame. Falling into boiling > water is much worse I am told. That's what I sort of figured, you just need to adjust your total drop distance above the iron to be larger until it works out properly... Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 9 10:42:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: <002d01c287f9$56dfa8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: [snippage] including "+ A D 4 -" evil sprites still haunting your character conversion doo-hickey. ;} > > Wonder what killed it? Did you have to uncable before > shipping? These things don't grow on trees. > No, that's kind of the mystery. I didn't unhook things for precisely that reason, and last night was the first time the system had been powered on since VCF. I moved the rack in the house (minus the RM503 scope, BTW) and let it acclimatize for a couple of days, since it was 35 degrees F when in my garage that day. It's quite possible (and completely my 'luck' in these matters) that it just died on power-up, not connected with all the moving. I played around with it for a few hours after swapping out the ESDI card, and all is as normal. Go figure. And, perhaps I can find some doc on these cards, to maybe repair it. There's a Z80 and a big ASIC or PAL on the card, along with the usual collection of ROMs and glue chips. I'm not scrapping it yet. Cheerz John From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 11:26:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Need datasheet for AT&T T7525 codec 1991-1994 Message-ID: Hi. I need a data sheet for an AT&T T7525 codec from the 1991-1994 timeframe. The data sheet must be dated. If not, then I need the entire databook. There is a cash reward for this. If you've got this, please reply to me at . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Nov 9 12:41:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021108214539.44c766fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to > keep it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. There were two models of the TI "Programmer". The first model used LED displays, and ate batteries at a rate impossible to keep up with. It worked BEAUTIFULLY as a plugged in desktop unit. The later model was much thinner, and used an LCD display. Its batteries would last almost as long as its keyboard (which was its weak point). Disassembly and cleaning would usually be adequate to render the keyboard usable for a while. MANY, if not most, "scientific" calculators include rudimentary base conversion capabilities. Most "scientific" calculators that have A B C D E F keys can work in hexadecimal. The Casio CFX-40 (and 400) wrist watch "scientific" calculator has full hex capabilities. It requires good eyesight and a nimble touch. But it is long since discontinued (late 1980s). Scott Mueller bought up a stock of them and is planning to release some soon. But he wants hundreds of dollars, so it is currently out of my range for buying a spare. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Nov 9 12:54:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1036868240.23640.21.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2002-11-09 at 13:43, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > There were two models of the TI "Programmer". The first model used LED > displays, and ate batteries at a rate impossible to keep up with. It > worked BEAUTIFULLY as a plugged in desktop unit. > My father gave me one of these for my 16th birthday in 1978. At the time I was programming a Terak using UCSD Pascal along with an Amdahl 470 using APL and Fortran. Though I was still in high school, the local university did not seem to have a problem with me hacking (in the good sense) away on their mainframe. ISTR that you could play 'music' on an AM radio by pushing different combinations of the calculator keys. I really liked that calculator and have no idea what became of it over the last couple of decades. I use an HP-48GX for that kind of stuff now, though I will occasionally pick up the old slip-stick for the odd quick calculation. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Nov 9 13:04:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 available (?) Message-ID: <200211091905.gA9J5pg09875@io.crash.com> Just spotted this in last week's Want Advertiser - didn't get around to reading the computer section... Located in Townsend, MA maybe an hour out of Boston? Rest is literal from the ad. I called just now to see if it was still available, but no answer. I have no affiliation with the seller. ===== ITHACA INTERSYS DPS-1. This is an extremely rare S-100 bus minicomputer from 1979. Mint cond & has many cards inside, all orig. It also comes w/ the mathcing Ithaca dual 8" drive encl. 2 terminals & 2 other drives that can go w/it. 1 of these recently sold on E-Bay for $4000. Priced for quick sale, $1000; Call Aaron 2:30-9:30PM. (Townsend) 978-597-8018 [I believe this is a residential number. GMT-0500. --S.] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Nov 9 13:14:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021109020027.00ab7ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: > > > What about molten iron :-) > >Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' > Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in That was only one of the things wrong with Dick's idea. But would it really be THAT bad if they burst into flame while being very slowly brought towards the molten iron? Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought to a boil? Q: how many Pentiums would it take to boil that much water? From hansp at aconit.org Sat Nov 9 13:29:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! References: Message-ID: <3DCD62A3.7060809@aconit.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to >>keep it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. > There were two models of the TI "Programmer". The first model used LED > displays, and ate batteries at a rate impossible to keep up with. It > worked BEAUTIFULLY as a plugged in desktop unit. My own favorite (otehr than my HP-16 ;-) is a CASIO CM-100 "computer math calc". I originall y found these in the US sometime in the eighties, I must have bought 5 or 10 and easily sold them to colleaugues in europe. Later I lost my own and looked in vain til by chance I got a trip to Japan and diligent searching in Akihabara turned up three. The nice thing is they have no batteries, just a "solar panel" and do not seem to need much light to function properly. -- hbp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 9 13:32:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: VAX manuals found In-Reply-To: <1036839004.14167.0.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> References: <19b.b830150.2afd207a@aol.com> <03dd01c286f5$f2b8c4e0$48312b3e@portatil> <1036839004.14167.0.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> Message-ID: <20021109163512.GA27864@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 11:50:05AM +0100, Michael Schneider wrote: > And KFQSA? Basic setup instructions for the KFQSA are at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vax_vms_dssi_notes.html -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 14:01:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 available (?) In-Reply-To: <200211091905.gA9J5pg09875@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Steve Jones wrote: > that can go w/it. 1 of these recently sold on E-Bay for $4000. Priced > for quick sale, $1000; Call Aaron 2:30-9:30PM. (Townsend) 978-597-8018 "Priced for quick sale" would be $400 or less. I hate when people quote eBay prices (it's even worse when they use that to justify their own bloated value). $1000 is not out of line for this, but still higher than I would pay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 14:02:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > What about molten iron :-) > > >Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' > > Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in > > That was only one of the things wrong with Dick's idea. > > But would it really be THAT bad if they burst into flame while being very > slowly brought towards the molten iron? > > Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought > to a boil? A much more agonizing death would be to force someone to read Dick's rambling and nonsensical rants over and over again until they croak. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Qstieee at aol.com Sat Nov 9 14:03:18 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: IBM 6546-00N monitor focus Message-ID: <4243DA75.74CC8BBB.001A265C@aol.com> This has marketing name G52. It is a 15" PC type monitor. I'm looking for information on how to adjust the focus. Images and text are good, bright color and convergence but not exactly in focus. Suspect an internal adjustment; nothing apparent on built-in on-screen menu. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Nov 9 14:11:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > What about molten iron :-) > > >Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' > > Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in > > That was only one of the things wrong with Dick's idea. > > But would it really be THAT bad if they burst into flame while being very > slowly brought towards the molten iron? No, no, it's IR *AND* UV. Any welder knows you can cook meat (including self) next to cherry-red or hotter iron or steel. The subject would be flash-broiled long before flame-on. For lasting agony, water or peanut oil would be much better. > Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought > to a boil? Because the subject would never notice. If the liquid temp comes up slowly, it's just "hot" until the nerve endings die. > Q: how many Pentiums would it take to boil that much water? More Pentiums than AMD K-6s.... Doc From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 9 14:14:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > > Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in > > a steel mill and people would toss old pallets into molten iron carriers > > and about 10 feet up they would burst into flame. Falling into boiling > > water is much worse I am told. > > That's what I sort of figured, you just need to adjust your total drop > distance above the iron to be larger until it works out properly... Use molten lead instead. -brian. From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Sat Nov 9 14:15:01 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: VAX manuals found In-Reply-To: <20021109163512.GA27864@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <19b.b830150.2afd207a@aol.com> <03dd01c286f5$f2b8c4e0$48312b3e@portatil> <1036839004.14167.0.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> <20021109163512.GA27864@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1036873055.14167.5.camel@silke.rt.schwaben.de> Hmm, yeah, i know, and i never needed more. That's true enough. But i'm such a nerd, i just love to have every little bit of documentation, just in case.... 8-) On Sat, 2002-11-09 at 17:35, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 11:50:05AM +0100, Michael Schneider wrote: > > > And KFQSA? > Basic setup instructions for the KFQSA are at: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vax_vms_dssi_notes.html -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de Sieben auf einen Streich From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 9 14:17:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: Need datasheet for AT&T T7525 codec 1991-1994 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I need a data sheet for an AT&T T7525 codec from the 1991-1994 timeframe. > The data sheet must be dated. If not, then I need the entire databook. > > There is a cash reward for this. > > If you've got this, please reply to me at . Smells like a lawsuit in need of `prior art' is nearby. :-) -brian. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 9 14:19:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: IBM 6546-00N monitor focus In-Reply-To: <4243DA75.74CC8BBB.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > This has marketing name G52. It is a 15" PC type monitor. I'm looking > for information on how to adjust the focus. Images and text are good, > bright color and convergence but not exactly in focus. Suspect an > internal adjustment; nothing apparent on built-in on-screen menu. FYI, All monitors (should) have FOCUS and SCREEN adjustment pots on their flyback. As with anything else inside the monitor, don't just them unless you're certain you need to (adjusting focus is something I've only needed to do once on a monitor). They're sometimes labelled "F" and "S", sometimes unlabelled, but they should definately be located on the flyback transformer (the plastic thing that the thick HV cable for the anode connection comes out of). Also, you shouldn't need to adjust the pot very much, usually a small change makes a large difference in the focus of the monitor. But first: Also, beware that the dot pitch of the monitor can make things look out of focus, especially if you try using a resolution that's higher than the dot pitch supports. So, first, make sure you try a low, standard resolution (something like 800x600 or 640x480), the monitor may not be able to render the resolution you're trying clearly. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 9 15:11:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare References: <002d01c287f9$56dfa8e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002801c28834$ded875c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > decoded the error codes, followed the registers ... Good for you > what was hurting... the Dilog 626 has died... Wonder what killed it? Did you have to uncable before shipping? These things don't grow on trees. John A. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 9 15:14:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:48 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021108214539.44c766fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DCD2663.28808.453BCFD8@localhost> > > I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to > > keep it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. > > There were two models of the TI "Programmer". The first model used LED > displays, and ate batteries at a rate impossible to keep up with. It > worked BEAUTIFULLY as a plugged in desktop unit. > > The later model was much thinner, and used an LCD display. Its batteries > would last almost as long as its keyboard (which was its weak point). > Disassembly and cleaning would usually be adequate to render the keyboard > usable for a while. > I've got a TI 55-II that I bought in the early 80s with a LCD. Right from the start it had keyboard bounce that would only get worse as the batteries deteriorated. It used something TI called Algebraic Operating System. A lot of features but the "bounce" made it totally frustrating to use. Apparently they were known for this. Lawrence > MANY, if not most, "scientific" calculators include rudimentary base > conversion capabilities. Most "scientific" calculators that have A B C D > E F keys can work in hexadecimal. > > > The Casio CFX-40 (and 400) wrist watch "scientific" calculator has full > hex capabilities. It requires good eyesight and a nimble touch. But it > is long since discontinued (late 1980s). Scott Mueller bought up a stock > of them and is planning to release some soon. But he wants hundreds of > dollars, so it is currently out of my range for buying a spare. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 9 15:17:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021108214539.44c766fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DCD2663.28808.453BCFD8@localhost> > > I have a TI Programmer's calc here somewhere but it's a nuisance to > > keep it charged and it's always dead when I want to use it. > > There were two models of the TI "Programmer". The first model used LED > displays, and ate batteries at a rate impossible to keep up with. It > worked BEAUTIFULLY as a plugged in desktop unit. > > The later model was much thinner, and used an LCD display. Its batteries > would last almost as long as its keyboard (which was its weak point). > Disassembly and cleaning would usually be adequate to render the keyboard > usable for a while. > I've got a TI 55-II that I bought in the early 80s with a LCD. Right from the start it had keyboard bounce that would only get worse as the batteries deteriorated. It used something TI called Algebraic Operating System. A lot of features but the "bounce" made it totally frustrating to use. Apparently they were known for this. Lawrence > MANY, if not most, "scientific" calculators include rudimentary base > conversion capabilities. Most "scientific" calculators that have A B C D > E F keys can work in hexadecimal. > > > The Casio CFX-40 (and 400) wrist watch "scientific" calculator has full > hex capabilities. It requires good eyesight and a nimble touch. But it > is long since discontinued (late 1980s). Scott Mueller bought up a stock > of them and is planning to release some soon. But he wants hundreds of > dollars, so it is currently out of my range for buying a spare. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Nov 9 15:54:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:16:56 -0800 (PST)" References: Message-ID: <200211092108.gA9L86BM020989@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought > to a boil? Hey, why not be green, at least from an energy point of view? I'm imagining a big concave mirror and a hoist. Tie the rope to appendages appropriate to the crime, and hoist the miscreant into the focal point. ... What really cheeses me off about this sort of thing is that the service providers don't go out of their way to make it easy to identify fraudulent use of their names (or do any kind of sane mail filtering, for that matter) by looking at the source and destination domain names in e-mail headers and URLs. For example, four years ago I bought a then-new HP scanner. I registered it, and gave them an e-mail address. Once a month or so, I get this thing that says something like "Happy Halloween from HP" in the Subject, was mailed from some domain name in p0.com, and has a bunch of URLs with domain names in p01.com. How the foo is J. Random Customer supposed to tell the difference between this and an attempt to defraud or commit identity theft? -Grumpy Ol' Frank From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 9 17:34:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021108193456.32ef752e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Nov 8, 2 07:34:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021109/a73e8592/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 9 17:34:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 9, 2 04:39:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 626 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021109/106ae261/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 9 17:35:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: IBM 6546-00N monitor focus In-Reply-To: <4243DA75.74CC8BBB.001A265C@aol.com> from "Qstieee@aol.com" at Nov 9, 2 03:01:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021109/00b6c3e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 9 17:35:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3DCC60D8.7040505@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Nov 8, 2 06:11:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2023 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021109/e3a3ea3b/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Sat Nov 9 17:38:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: Message-ID: <3DCD9C3C.9060903@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>>>What about molten iron :-) >>> >>>Sounds good, as long as you _slowly_ lower them into it, like the 'T1000' >> >>Doesn't work, the molten iron gives off a ton of IR heat. I used to work in > > > That was only one of the things wrong with Dick's idea. > > But would it really be THAT bad if they burst into flame while being very > slowly brought towards the molten iron? > > Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought > to a boil? > > > Q: how many Pentiums would it take to boil that much water? > > > People woun't burst into flames that quickly, I wouldn't think. Too much water content in the body. Pallets are all kindling :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From n4fs at monmouth.com Sat Nov 9 17:54:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: <200211092108.gA9L86BM020989@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <012901c2884b$4bbd0a00$086dbd18@n4fs> I just read a novel where Saddam Hussein was interrogating a Kurdish fighter trying to get information from him. Saddam's solution was simple, In the interrogation room there was a pulley in the ceiling and below it was a vat of hydrochloric acid. He would slowly immerse the victim into the vat, toes first, and, slowly continue. Needless to say he got most of the information he wanted before the victim died. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:08 PM Subject: Re: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Why not save energy, and use a water immersion that is very slowly brought > > to a boil? > > Hey, why not be green, at least from an energy point of view? I'm > imagining a big concave mirror and a hoist. Tie the rope to > appendages appropriate to the crime, and hoist the miscreant into the > focal point. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 9 18:01:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > BUT: I have doc! I have Processor Manuals! I have the Technical Manual! > > And, using ODT, I found that the system was trying to boot the ESDI drives > > and failing. I'm so proud of myself - decoded the error codes, followed > > OK, what does the error code in from the ESDI controller's registers > translate to? Unknown and unobtainable at this time; the card fails to respond at all and the CPU times out and falls back into ODT. The failure indications led me to the card, but I couldn't go farther. Such gross failures are usually obvious, though... rather than the 'once every other third Tuesday except April and leap years' type of fault. > > Does the ESDI controller manage to select a drive? (Meaning the bus > interface and probably the on-board processor are working). Move the > heads? Read anyting from the drive at all? > As above (so below). It is possible that the address decoding circuits have failed, or something in the grant chain, though I doubt that, due to the fact that calling for a boot from an alternate drive (the RL02) functioned normally. Otherwise, cabled to the drives or not, the CPU traps out when this card is in the system. It's identical twin is now performing properly in the machine, all is well. > It might still be something has come loose when moving the machine. Have > you re-seated any socketed ICs? And jumpers? > Not yet, although I *do* have a recently-purchased quad-height extender card (Thanx Bruce Lane!) so, at some future date, I will essay it's repair and refurbishment. Also, I must launch a full-court-press search for the documentation for this card, though parts of it are pretty obvious from the chips and their placement on the board. Anybody got any info on a Dilog 626 ESDI Unibus Card???? Thanks, Tony! John. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 9 19:08:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 - Dilog update Message-ID: Number one, I misread the model number of the ESDI card that failed: it's a Dilog DU686... sorry, sorry! A moment with Google turns up that not only is Dilog still in business (www.dilog.com) but that they sell and service a large number of Unibus *and* Qbus cards. It turns out that the DU686 is ESDI / MSCP and they'll fix dead ones for only $250... $350 with revs, ECOs, and updates. The main office is in Switzerland, branch in Tustin, CA. No prices for new stuff listed on the sites, but I'll phone them Monday and see... they have SCSI and Pertec formatters, and Unibus adapters to make modern small SCSI drives look like a Spindle Farm, sans the noise, weight, and floor-space. Cheers John From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Nov 9 19:10:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32815.64.169.63.74.1036890671.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Unknown and unobtainable at this time; the card fails to respond at > all > and the CPU times out and falls back into ODT. The failure indications > led me to the card, but I couldn't go farther. Such gross failures are > usually obvious, though... rather than the 'once every other third > Tuesday except April and leap years' type of fault. It may be completely unrelated to this problem, but I still think you ought to but a terminator at the end of the bus. I was quite amazed that your 11/44 worked at all without it; mine won't even start if the terminator isn't there, and just emits some cryptic console error. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Nov 9 19:16:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021110014322.GC3939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Sellam Ismail, from writings of Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:03:36PM -0800: > A much more agonizing death would be to force someone to read Dick's > rambling and nonsensical rants over and over again until they croak. Sounds just like what we need to subject many of our politicians to! Cool, Erlachering them sounds like more fun than a barrel of tar and some feathers! Maybe we should just mailbomb their e-mail addresses with copies of his messages, or snail mail copies to them in huge quantities. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Nov 9 19:18:01 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P Message-ID: <20021110012144.BBOJ1186.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Does anyone have any information on this computer? TIA -- Glen Goodwin If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 9 19:21:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: <32815.64.169.63.74.1036890671.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > It may be completely unrelated to this problem, but I still think you > ought to but a terminator at the end of the bus. I was quite amazed > that your 11/44 worked at all without it; mine won't even start if > the terminator isn't there, and just emits some cryptic console error. > Where do you think the one you gave me after VFC is right now??? ;} Quote: "I may be stupid, but I can *prove* it!" end quote. Thanks, by the way. Now, about that hex-height extender... Cheers John > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Nov 9 19:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: References: <32815.64.169.63.74.1036890671.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <32943.64.169.63.74.1036893314.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Where do you think the one you gave me after VFC is right now??? Oh. Well, that's probably what broke your Dilog card then. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 9 20:04:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P In-Reply-To: <20021110012144.BBOJ1186.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021109211013.0f579568@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Glen, I pretty sure that Mike Haas has AT LEAST one. Bob Rief and I located a stash of OLD computer stuff in Gainsville and bought all the S-100 stuff (a truck load!) and turned Mike unto the rest of it including a couple of OS computers and a Motorola Exorcisor machine. Needless to say he got everything that we left! Joe At 08:19 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have any information on this computer? > >TIA -- > >Glen Goodwin > >If I am not for myself, who will be for me? >And if not now, when? >-- Pirkei Avot > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Nov 9 20:23:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Enhancing RT-11 and Fixing RT-11 Bugs Message-ID: <3DCDC384.C86D2751@compsys.to> Although this list is semi-public, I thought it best to keep this inquiry a bit more limited than immediately posting this in alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11. If I don't receive any replies from classiccmp, then I will try those two newsgroups, but any feedback from classiccmp would be greatly appreciated so that obvious (but not to me) aspects of this content that are inappropriate can be changed. Note that since V5.03 of RT-11 was released in 1985, I am abiding by the ten year rule. Please note that I realize that there is almost no interest in fixing bugs in RT-11, let alone producing enhancements. If you feel that such activity is best left to Mentec or you don't wish to participate, then read no further. As for why I enjoy fixing bugs in RT-11 and making enhancements, the reason must be the same as for someone who climbs Mount Everest - because it is there! As of November 2002, V5.07 of RT-11 was 4 years old, having been released in November 1998. Even if Mentec does eventually allow hobby use of versions of RT-11 subsequent to V5.03, especially V5.07, I just can't believe that Mentec will ever spend the money to decide to release another version of RT-11 when there are already insufficient sales to even support selling RT-11 and all of the layered products. My suggestion is that the very few individuals who are still interested in fixing bugs and writing code to enhance RT-11 pool their resources. While there are many minor and several major bugs still in RT-11, it no longer seems likely that there will be a further release. If you are interested in bug fixes and extensions to RT-11, along with support for V5.03 which may be used as a hobby version of RT-11 under the Supnik (SIMH) emulator, I would appreciate being part of, even leading if no one else is willing, a small group to share and define future extensions to RT-11 as well as fixing the current bugs. If no one replies, I guess I will lead a one person group. But even someone who is interested, but might only wish to comment on how and which bugs, along with any enhancements should be undertaken, would be extremely helpful. Also if you are only interested in using the enhanced features of a future RT-11 and NOT even in being a beta tester, you can still provide valuable help by stating which features would be of use. For example, at the very least and until the hobby license allows later versions of RT-11 after V5.03 to be used, a Y2K compliant V5.03 of RT-11 would seem to be reasonable. While I would rather spend my time fixing the bugs and making enhancements to V5.07, there may be sufficient interest to make V5.03 Y2K compliant until the hobby license for at least RT-11 (as opposed to RSTS/E and RSX-11) is extended. Another extension that would seem to be in order while there is sufficient expertise around is to allow for dates beyond 2099. For example, current VMS 64 bit implementations probably allow for the year 25,000. Extending the DATE value significantly beyond 2099 to at least 9999 will require at least 5 MORE bits to be used for the DATE value within the resident monitor and in random file directories. I also have looked at the implementation of a PH: (PATH pseudo device HANDLER) that could act like the Symbolic Name List in VMS or the PATH NAME in DOS. And an enhancement I have thought about would be the ability to boot and execute RT-11 within a DSK file, i.e. allow the LD: to be a System Device bootable using DUP. Another might be to allow more RT-11 partitions to be active for MSCP device drivers instead of only 64 RT-11 partitions - and if feasible, 256 RT-11 partitions depending on how RT-11 handles characters in the third character of the device name. Of course, 2 extra bits would need to be found in the queue element. As far as I understand, all future changes to RT-11 (both bug fixes and extensions) are unlikely to be used by any commercial sites. Further, in order to attempt to be compliant with the current and any future hobby license from Mentec, I suggest that all changes to RT-11 be made available ONLY for hobby use unless they have Mentec's approval for use by commercial users. If anyone at Mentec is reading this, I suggest that contact be made to arrange for this aspect of the use of any changes made to RT-11 that are not made by Mentec. Obviously, if there is no contact with Mentec, NONE of the changes will be approved of or supported by Mentec - which is probably the BEST solution since then the users will do all the work and coordination for the changes that are needed as well as being responsible to ensure that the changes are bug free and work correctly. However, a win/win solution might be for Mentec to allow V5.07 of RT-11 to be used by hobby users and for the bug fixes (especially the bug fixes) and enhancements to continue to be sold by Mentec to the commercial users after they are provided without charge to Mentec by the hobby community. I don't know if this arrangement has ever been made between the manufacturer and the hobby community, but I can't see how it would hurt Mentec. In this regard, a completely ISO 9000 compliant version of RT-11 might even be possible. About the only utility still needing 4 digit years is MACRO-11 and that is already done - in a private version I did in 1997. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'. If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Nov 9 20:26:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <200211092108.gA9L86BM020989@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <"Fred Cisin's message of "Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:16:56 -0800 (PST)"> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021109182259.00ab3400@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 01:08 PM 11/9/02 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >What really cheeses me off about this sort of thing is that the >service providers don't go out of their way to make it easy to >identify fraudulent use of their names (or do any kind of sane mail >filtering, for that matter) by looking at the source and destination >domain names in e-mail headers and URLs. Two great opposing forces are at work on the internet, total control and verified identity, vs, anarchy and annonmenity (sorry spelling is not a major force). Unfortunately the same verified ID that would let me track down a spammer, also would allow oppressive regimes to control internet content. Struggle is good, spam isnt "that" bad. From jss at subatomix.com Sat Nov 9 21:01:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Re: _Collectible Microcomputers_ now available for order In-Reply-To: <3DCC3746.1773.4195A513@localhost> References: <3DCC3746.1773.4195A513@localhost> Message-ID: <71112852072.20021109210319@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 8, 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This seemed to not get thru a classic talk screening. Yes it did. http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-November/009895.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Nov 9 21:09:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Ext. Memory Test Wierdness Message-ID: <1036897900.25565.6.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> My PDP-8/E currently has four fields of core installed - fields 0 through 3. All fields pass both the 4K Memory Address Test and 4K Checkerboard Test with no problems. The Ext. Memory Address Test also runs fine. However, when I run the Ext. Memory Checkerboard Test I get wierdness. Here is the run: PDP-8E EXT MEM DATA & CHKBD SETUP SR & CONT <--- Set SR to 000000000011 4 FIELDS IN THIS SYSTEM FIELDS SEL'D ARE 6 5 3 2 0 <--- First bit of wierdness. This should be 3 2 1 0 PROG WILL RELOCATE PR LOC FAIL ADDR GOOD BAD PATTERN 01660 50000 7777 0000 ALL 0 - 10 01660 50001 7777 0000 ALL 0 - 10 This continues through fields 5 and 6 until I hit the halt key. The Config is as follows: PDP-8/E CPU EAE Ext Memory & Timesharing ASR-33 Teletype and Associated Control 4K Core stacks for Fields 0 and 1, 8K Stack for Fields 2 and 3 What I don't understand is why the Ext. Mem Address Test works correctly, but the Ext Memory Data and Checkerboard can determine the number of fields while messing up on exactly which fields they are. Anyone seen this before? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From apple at cmc.net Sat Nov 9 21:14:00 2002 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P References: <20021110012144.BBOJ1186.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <01fc01c28866$dde354a0$770fbbd0@oemcomputer> A 6502 based Basic in ROM machine from the late 70's. There is quite a bit of information on the web. Start with http://www.doublebit.com/archives/software/challenger1p/contents.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Goodwin" To: "classiccmp" Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 5:19 PM Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P > Does anyone have any information on this computer? > > TIA -- > > Glen Goodwin > > If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > And if not now, when? > -- Pirkei Avot From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 9 21:23:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Need datasheet for AT&T T7525 codec 1991-1994 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > I need a data sheet for an AT&T T7525 codec from the 1991-1994 timeframe. > > The data sheet must be dated. If not, then I need the entire databook. > > > > There is a cash reward for this. > > > > If you've got this, please reply to me at . > > Smells like a lawsuit in need of `prior art' is nearby. :-) One of many ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Nov 9 21:51:00 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P Message-ID: <20021110035508.YFUP3370.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Joe > I pretty sure that Mike Haas has AT LEAST one. Bob Rief and I located a stash of OLD computer stuff in Gainsville and bought all the S-100 stuff (a truck load!) and turned Mike unto the rest of it including a couple of OS computers and a Motorola Exorcisor machine. Needless to say he got everything that we left! Okay, so what about this thing? Trash? Treasure? Scarce? Common? Is it interesting enough that I should try to add one to my collection of 8-bitters here? Later -- Glen 0/0 From passerm at umkc.edu Sat Nov 9 22:00:00 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (passerm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 1-P In-Reply-To: <20021110035508.YFUP3370.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: Let me put it this way--if you don't want it, you won't have any trouble finding someone here to take it off your hands :). > > Okay, so what about this thing? Trash? Treasure? Scarce? Common? > Is it > interesting enough that I should try to add one to my collection of > 8-bitters here? > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > From ccraft at netgenius.org Sat Nov 9 22:21:01 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> On Friday 08 November 2002 18:07, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I can do $100 now and more later, up to 15%. My future employer now doesn't > want me to start until December. :-( I could come up with an initial $100 too, if it would help. Is anyone stepping up to start collecting promises? Sincerely, Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. From cvendel at att.net Sat Nov 9 22:21:29 2002 From: cvendel at att.net (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Corvus Developers kit that was Ebay References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> Message-ID: <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> Al.... you rock dude!!! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Corvus Developers kit that was Ebay > > > Did anyone here from the list win that auction > > the manuals from the auction are on line at > www.spies.com/aek/pdf/corvus > From geoff at pkworks.com Sat Nov 9 22:21:48 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 available (?) Message-ID: <000801c2884a$ddac28c0$2c77f4d0@dialup> Yah, I saw that. If he drops a zero off the price I'm interested... >Just spotted this in last week's Want Advertiser - didn't get around >to reading the computer section... Located in Townsend, MA maybe an >hour out of Boston? Rest is literal from the ad. I called just now to >see if it was still available, but no answer. I have no affiliation >with the seller. > >===== > >ITHACA INTERSYS DPS-1. This is an extremely rare S-100 bus minicomputer >from 1979. Mint cond & has many cards inside, all orig. It also comes >w/ the mathcing Ithaca dual 8" drive encl. 2 terminals & 2 other drives >that can go w/it. 1 of these recently sold on E-Bay for $4000. Priced >for quick sale, $1000; Call Aaron 2:30-9:30PM. (Townsend) 978-597-8018 > >[I believe this is a residential number. GMT-0500. --S.] > > > > From dan at ekoan.com Sun Nov 10 00:22:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <3DCD62A3.7060809@aconit.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110011847.03bcfca0@enigma> At 08:31 PM 11/9/02 +0100, you wrote: >My own favorite (otehr than my HP-16 ;-) is a CASIO CM-100 "computer math >calc". I too prefer the HP-16C, but the CM-100 is a nice design. I have a photo of one up on my Casio calculator page, http://www.decodesystems.com/casiocalcs.html A very similar discussion of hex-capable calculators occurred recently on Slashdot, along with a link to my page. As is to be expected, ClassicCmpers covered the same ground much more quickly. :-) >The nice thing is they have no batteries, just a "solar panel" and do not >seem to need much light to function properly. The CM-100 functions very well in surprisingly low light. However, when I need to do hex conversions (which I did for a while in developing code for a Motorola OnCore GPS chipset), I prefer the HP-16C. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to Sun Nov 10 05:00:39 2002 From: akb+lists.cctech at imap1.mirror.to (akb+lists.cctech@imap1.mirror.to) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: DECmate & DECstation video port pinouts? In-Reply-To: <00af01c2873a$38a22ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.3.32.20021109005553.00fdadfc@mail.optushome.com.au> <00af01c2873a$38a22ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >> I've picked up a DECmate III and a DECstation 3100 that I'd >> like to get running, but I don't have monitors for either. >> >> Does anybody have the pinouts for the video ports so I can make >> up some adapters? > Here for a vaxStation 3100 (and many others): > http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php note that the pinout shows both mono and color. the unit will output on color only if it has the "color simm" in it. (the "color simm" being a small board that looks like a simm and plugs into its own socket on the motherboard). with the color simm in, I think that the mono outputs don't output anything. by the way, output is 1024x864 resolution at 60 Hz refresh. I'll probably post a more formal announcement later (in a few months after I've moved and spent some time cleaning and sorting) but I'll mention that I'm in the boston MA area and have some 19" mono dec workstation monitors I'd love to unload. models vr-260 and vr-262, they work with decstations 2100 and 3100, and vaxstations II, 2000, 3100. Also I think with turbochannel systems that have a pmag-b framebuffer card. The easier it is for me to get rid of this stuff, the less money I want (ranging from "free" if you come get it to "not free" if you want me to test, pack, and ship it...:) From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Nov 10 10:14:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <012901c2884b$4bbd0a00$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <200211092108.gA9L86BM020989@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021110110705.00cf7c3c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:54 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote: > >I just read a novel where Saddam Hussein was interrogating a Kurdish fighter >trying to get information from him. Saddam's solution was simple, In the >interrogation room there was a pulley in the ceiling and below it was a vat >of hydrochloric acid. He would slowly immerse the victim into the vat, toes >first, and, slowly continue. Needless to say he got most of the information >he wanted before the victim died. Regards - Mike Very unlikely. The heat from the body would probably vaporize enough HCL to make the atmosphere unbreathable and burn everyone's lungs. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From hansp at aconit.org Sun Nov 10 10:37:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: OT : watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] References: <200211092108.gA9L86BM020989@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <3.0.2.32.20021110110705.00cf7c3c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3DCE8B69.8000902@aconit.org> Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 06:54 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote: >>I just read a novel where Saddam Hussein was interrogating a Kurdish fighter >>trying to get information from him. Saddam's solution was simple, In the >>interrogation room there was a pulley in the ceiling and below it was a vat >>of hydrochloric acid. He would slowly immerse the victim into the vat, toes >>first, and, slowly continue. Needless to say he got most of the information >>he wanted before the victim died. Regards - Mike > Very unlikely. The heat from the body would probably vaporize enough HCL > to make the atmosphere unbreathable and burn everyone's lungs. Shhhh - its obviously a CIA ploy to take out Saddam..... -- hbp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 10 16:11:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Signetics 2650 Message-ID: LOL, AFAIK, Ehrlacher still has some 2650s.. He gave me one. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Nov 10 16:25:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: Mike Ford's message of "Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:29:03 -0800" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021109182259.00ab3400@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <200211102223.gAAMNXao044702@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Mike Ford wrote: > At 01:08 PM 11/9/02 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: > >What really cheeses me off about this sort of thing is that the > >service providers don't go out of their way to make it easy to > >identify fraudulent use of their names (or do any kind of sane mail > >filtering, for that matter) by looking at the source and destination > >domain names in e-mail headers and URLs. > > Two great opposing forces are at work on the internet, total control and > verified identity, vs, anarchy and annonmenity (sorry spelling is not a > major force). I guess I put this the wrong way round. The company on whose behalf this stuff was e-mailed (HP) has allowed someone to make it hard to identify that the stuff really originated with or in fact has anything to do with them, beyond easily-forgeable bits in the From: header name (the text bit, not the address) and body which I know better than to trust. > Unfortunately the same verified ID that would let me track down a spammer, > also would allow oppressive regimes to control internet content. I'm not asking for a cryptographically verifiable ID, I'm asking that those who would allow other parties to send authorized corporate communications in their behalf via unencrypted e-mail at least put enough effort into making sure that these communications at least give the appearance of coming from the authorizing party. Allowing the mailing-list company to use specific name(s) in hp.com in the From: header address and URLs would do; allowing the mailing-list company to use specific name(s) in hp.com in the Received: headers and SMTP envelope address would be nice too. This is all just DNS tricks. Absent this, how can I (as the receiver) tell the difference between authorized and unauthorized communications? I can't, and if I can't I don't see how I can expect anyone else to do so. That's what makes it possible for some miscreant to forge e-mail claiming to be from HP, or eBay, and get people to reply with their credentials. The recipients can't tell which messages to trust. ObCC: turned up a copy of Abrash's _Zen of Assembly Language_ at the book sale yesterday. It's a good book (and hard to find), but you can probably get most of his message out of his later books that are somewhat easier to find: _Zen of Code Optimization_ and/or _Graphics Programming Black Book_ (which latter I believe is available in some form or other online). -Frank McConnell From curt at atari-history.com Sun Nov 10 16:26:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I have a large collection of Atari related newspaper articles that I have on file and while I keep them out of light and in plastic magazine covers they are slowly but surely succumbing to yellowing and I am concerned they will dry out, become brittle and so forth.... any help would be appreciated. Curt From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Nov 10 16:56:01 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 17:25, Curt Vendel wrote: > Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper > articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I > have a large collection of Atari related newspaper articles that I have on > file and while I keep them out of light and in plastic magazine covers they > are slowly but surely succumbing to yellowing and I am concerned they will > dry out, become brittle and so forth.... any help would be appreciated. > In my genealogy hobby (and in my wife's scrapbooking hobby) this is a major concern. The yellowing is caused by various acids used in the manufacturing of the paper. The only real way to prevent yellowing is to use acid free paper and ink. Unfortunately, newspapers do not do this. The best you can do is to keep them out of the light. I would also recommend going to a scrapbook store and purchase archival quality plastic covers instead of plain old plastic magazine covers. One thing I did with a one hundred and fifty year old family bible was to photograph the family record pages using using a Minox-B camera (1960's movie spy camera) and Agfapan black and white film. The negatives will keep almost forever and I can make new prints whenever I need to. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 10 17:25:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: 11/44 scare In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 9, 2 07:03:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021110/5087172d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 10 17:25:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E Ext. Memory Test Wierdness In-Reply-To: <1036897900.25565.6.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> from "Christopher McNabb" at Nov 9, 2 10:11:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021110/aa6aee61/attachment.ksh From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Nov 10 17:37:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> Message-ID: <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> >Chris Craft wrote: > > On Friday 08 November 2002 18:07, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > I can do $100 now and more later, up to 15%. My future employer now doesn't > > want me to start until December. :-( > I could come up with an initial $100 too, if it would help. Is anyone > stepping up to start collecting promises? > Sincerely, > Chris Craft, RetroComputing Nut. Jerome Fine replies: I have seen 2 for 10% and 3 or 4 more for a deposit on up to 15%. Plus a number of others who would participate - maybe a lottery was my suggestion by asking for contributions of $ 10 per ticket. BUT, no one seems the be interested in coordination. Better do it soon. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Nov 10 18:10:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <000201c28916$d6217d40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I'm not sure there is much you can do short of scanning them in. Of course CDR media is supposed to have a 20 year life span (vs. the Sony advertised/hyped 100 years) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Preserving Newspaper. Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I have a large collection of Atari related newspaper articles that I have on file and while I keep them out of light and in plastic magazine covers they are slowly but surely succumbing to yellowing and I am concerned they will dry out, become brittle and so forth.... any help would be appreciated. Curt From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 10 18:23:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com><001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <004901c28918$a06e5180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The only real way to prevent yellowing is to use acid free > paper and ink. Unfortunately, newspapers do not do this. True. Worried that someday that everything will collapse like the books in "Time Machine" with some Eloi in the background going "Duuuude!"? There is some research on deacidification, EG http://lcweb.loc.gov/preserv/rt/copper/cops_1.html which I'm not up on. Sounds impractical in most cases. The Lib.Congress entry on preserving newspaper goes on to mention oddly "Digitization of Newspapers on Microfilm" (a contradiction?) http://lcweb.loc.gov/preserv/care/newspap.html I'd agree that photographing the materials would be the best choice, and digital would be best in terms of forward compatibility. A scanner would be good for <8x10 articles, a 5+MPixel camera for whole pages of newspaper. I'm getting interested in constructing a copystand for whole sheets. A 5MPix would get the whole page at 125 dpi, something of a minimum acceptable limit... with a scanner on cut articles its easier to do, and at 300 dpi no less. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 10 18:25:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> Message-ID: <004a01c28919$05c9e3a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ..contributions of $ 10 per ticket.. Sounds like _everyone_ on the list would have to buy a ticket for it to fly. But seriously: FI: the URL is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 the partslist is here: http://pages.prodigy.net/ppsjm/PART%20NUMBER.htm it's not all Mxxx'es, there are a lot of discretes. I would need to know more about the contents of the hold before commiting. The seller says he's looking into providing discriptions. If I get them, the list will too. The seller also says "SERIOUS bidders may meet us in Burlington for viewing Tuesday between 9-11". Would somebody near there like to go look for us? John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 10 18:34:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <000201c28916$d6217d40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I'm not sure there is much you can do short of scanning them in. Of > course CDR media is supposed to have a 20 year life span (vs. the Sony > advertised/hyped 100 years) Usually you are lucky to get 3-5 years out of CD-R media (in my experience anyway), as manufacturers really seem to overestimate the time it takes the organic dye compounds to break down. The other common problem is the tarnishing of the aluminum layer, often due to a poor topside coating. Of course, sharpie and other solvent based markers as well as some labels can also damage the coating. Personally, after way too many problems with CD-R media, I'm quite weary of using them for any sort of important/archival use. I recently came across some rather interesting bits of information on CD-R media at: http://www.mscience.com/ They also have a survey/test of 100s of discs up at: http://www.mscience.com/survey.html -Toth From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 10 19:20:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20021111014629.GF3939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Curt Vendel, from writings of Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 05:25:59PM -0500: > Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper > articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I [...] Aside from deacidification, etc., you could scan them in at a high resolution and print them out on acid-free paper (such as 100% cotton paper or acid-free ink-jet paper). Aren't there archival-quality inks out now for ink-jet printers? I'd suggest a laser printer, but, after time, pages stick to one another and the printing comes off. Does anyone know why there's such little emphasis on permanance in the computer industry? ... an industry which often resembles a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Nov 10 19:36:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <000201c28916$d6217d40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <000201c28916$d6217d40$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <32935.64.169.63.74.1036978627.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Of course CDR media is supposed to have a 20 year life span (vs. the > Sony advertised/hyped 100 years) I'm not sure I'd even count on twenty years for silver CD media. Oxygen seeps in and oxidizes the reflective layer, reducing the contrast ratio well below what a drive can discern. I've seen this happen to poorly made audio discs in less than ten years, and there's no reason to believe that cheap CD-Rs are any better. Gold media (with an actual gold reflective layer, not just gold-tinted dye) should last over 100 years. Kodak did accelerated aging tests and found that 100 years was a reasonably conservative estimate. They used to have a detailed white paper on their web site, but it doesn't seem to be available any longer. Of course, it is always possible that there is a failure mode that is not modeled accurately by accelerated aging tests. I'm completely unimpressed with the newer Kodak gold and silver mix. There's not enough gold to see, so there's not enough that a drive will be able to see it after the silver oxidizes. Unless there's some pretty amazing chemistry going on in there. Kodak seems to be mostly out of the gold CD-R business, but Mitsui and Taiyo Yuden still make gold media. It's hard to find at retail, though a Google search turns up plenty of mail order sources. Of course it is much more expensive than silver. I have a supply of Kodak gold media I use for discs I intend to keep for archival purposes. For everything else I use silver media. For a few years I've been buying TDK spindles of 50 discs at Costco. The media was made by Taiyo Yuden and was quite good as silver discs go. Unfortunately the last time I tried to buy some, they only had TDK 100-disc spindles. Not realizing that the media was different, I bought one, and was appalled to find that about 20% of them were bad. The ATIP data indicates that these discs were manufactured by CMC Magnetics, one of the *worst* manufacturers. I can't believe that TDK switched from the best to the worst! Now I'll probably start buying bulk-packaged Taiyo Yuden discs by mail order. Eric Eric From cbajpai at attbi.com Sun Nov 10 20:13:00 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <32935.64.169.63.74.1036978627.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000101c28927$f8d90fe0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> I've heard a lot of Taiyo Yuden...what makes them better than anyone of the others? How do you know you are getting one of theirs vs. other mfgs (as you just experienced) -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) > Of course CDR media is supposed to have a 20 year life span (vs. the > Sony advertised/hyped 100 years) I'm not sure I'd even count on twenty years for silver CD media. Oxygen seeps in and oxidizes the reflective layer, reducing the contrast ratio well below what a drive can discern. I've seen this happen to poorly made audio discs in less than ten years, and there's no reason to believe that cheap CD-Rs are any better. Gold media (with an actual gold reflective layer, not just gold-tinted dye) should last over 100 years. Kodak did accelerated aging tests and found that 100 years was a reasonably conservative estimate. They used to have a detailed white paper on their web site, but it doesn't seem to be available any longer. Of course, it is always possible that there is a failure mode that is not modeled accurately by accelerated aging tests. I'm completely unimpressed with the newer Kodak gold and silver mix. There's not enough gold to see, so there's not enough that a drive will be able to see it after the silver oxidizes. Unless there's some pretty amazing chemistry going on in there. Kodak seems to be mostly out of the gold CD-R business, but Mitsui and Taiyo Yuden still make gold media. It's hard to find at retail, though a Google search turns up plenty of mail order sources. Of course it is much more expensive than silver. I have a supply of Kodak gold media I use for discs I intend to keep for archival purposes. For everything else I use silver media. For a few years I've been buying TDK spindles of 50 discs at Costco. The media was made by Taiyo Yuden and was quite good as silver discs go. Unfortunately the last time I tried to buy some, they only had TDK 100-disc spindles. Not realizing that the media was different, I bought one, and was appalled to find that about 20% of them were bad. The ATIP data indicates that these discs were manufactured by CMC Magnetics, one of the *worst* manufacturers. I can't believe that TDK switched from the best to the worst! Now I'll probably start buying bulk-packaged Taiyo Yuden discs by mail order. Eric Eric From nerdware at ctgonline.org Sun Nov 10 20:28:22 2002 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: Xerox Parc In-Reply-To: <3309.4.20.168.242.1036787761.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DC8F594.11355.9004F8@localhost> Message-ID: <3DCD9A1A.15545.9AA7F8F1@localhost> > nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > > Also keep in mind that the majority of the Alto/Star system was > > developed by the end of 1973..... > > No, the *minority* of the Alto system was developed by then. The Alto > hardware was not operational until March 1973. The early Alto > software was not very advanced, and did NOT have overlapping windows > and other such fancy GUI stuff. The software that everyone thinks of > in connection with the Alto was developed between 1973 and 1980 or so, > it didn't suddenly spring into existence in 1973. > > IIRC, development on the Star didn't start until 1979 or so. > Thanks. I was away from reference materials and flying from memory. > > and also, they had developed a > > color laser copier during that time as well. > > I'm not sure when color laser copiers appeared, but I'm skeptical > about it being in the early 1970s. > It might not have been a laser copier, but it was definitely a full- color copier. I saw the copies his son had sent him sometime around '77 or so, and was under the impression that he had gotten them a couple of years back. However, that was a long time ago,and I was just a nerdy kid, unlike today when I'm a nerdy adult. > The first laser printer prototype (SLOT) was built in 1973, but it was > NOT color. The first "production" laser printer, Dover, didn't apear > until 1976, and the first commercially available laser printer was > introduced in 1977. Color laser printers didn't appear for quite some > time. > > Just like this post, which I'm sure will take 3 or 4 days to show up on the list. I'm not sure why the delay..... Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 10 20:44:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:49 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <200211102223.gAAMNXao044702@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > I'm not asking for a cryptographically verifiable ID, I'm asking that I am. With our nobel gubment now planning to spy on its untrustworthy citizens, I'm thinking of requiring people to use PGP or something similar in order to communicate with me via e-mail anymore. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/09/politics/09COMP.html?ex=1037854354&ei=1&en=2c953778a582ee6b > Absent this, how can I (as the receiver) tell the difference between > authorized and unauthorized communications? I can't, and if I can't > I don't see how I can expect anyone else to do so. > > That's what makes it possible for some miscreant to forge e-mail > claiming to be from HP, or eBay, and get people to reply with their > credentials. The recipients can't tell which messages to trust. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Nov 10 20:58:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> Message-ID: <43199031341.20021110205938@subatomix.com> On Sunday, November 10, 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > no one seems the be interested in coordination. It's got to be someone who can be/get local and who doesn't have too much crap going on to mess with it. Considering the size of this load, that's not going to be very many people. -- Jeffrey Sharp From h.godavari at shaw.ca Sun Nov 10 21:01:05 2002 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (harsha godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3DCF1CE9.8EF0DB25@shaw.ca> I would lok at putting them on a CD. Most newsprint is not made from "acid-free" paper. Therefore it will crumble to powder in a few years. Librarians go through extrordinary procedures to remove acidity but only for some select, rare books. If you want go that route ask in the state archives or a big university library. Regards Harsha Godavari Christopher McNabb wrote: > > On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 17:25, Curt Vendel wrote: > > Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper > > articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I > > have a large collection of Atari related newspaper articles that I have on > > file and while I keep them out of light and in plastic magazine covers they > > are slowly but surely succumbing to yellowing and I am concerned they will > > dry out, become brittle and so forth.... any help would be appreciated. > > > > In my genealogy hobby (and in my wife's scrapbooking hobby) this is a > major concern. The yellowing is caused by various acids used in the > manufacturing of the paper. The only real way to prevent yellowing is > to use acid free paper and ink. Unfortunately, newspapers do not do > this. The best you can do is to keep them out of the light. I would > also recommend going to a scrapbook store and purchase archival quality > plastic covers instead of plain old plastic magazine covers. > > One thing I did with a one hundred and fifty year old family bible was > to photograph the family record pages using using a Minox-B camera > (1960's movie spy camera) and Agfapan black and white film. The > negatives will keep almost forever and I can make new prints whenever I > need to. > > -- > Christopher L McNabb > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cb at mythtech.net Sun Nov 10 21:13:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) Message-ID: >Kodak seems to be mostly out of the gold CD-R business, but Mitsui and >Taiyo Yuden still make gold media. It's hard to find at retail, though >a Google search turns up plenty of mail order sources. Of course it >is much more expensive than silver. Any idea about the quality of Verbatim's "Azo" dye? Obviously they hype it as being far better than other media, but I didn't know if anyone knows any "truth" about it. I have been moving to those because that is what I have been buying for my VCD recorder. I settled on them because they were the only ones I could get to work reliably in my VCD recorder when I first got it. It turned out to be a defective recorder (cooling fan was broken, so the unit overheated within minutes), and now just about any 74 minute CD-Rs work in it... but I have stuck with the Verbatim despite the slightly higher price... simply because I was impressed that they managed to work consistantly even in a broken recorder. -chris From patrick at evocative.com Sun Nov 10 21:16:01 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: [OT] Headed for the scrap heap... Message-ID: The following spare parts from 3Com equipment (1992-1994) are headed for the scrap heap unless someone wants them (all or individual): CEC for 3Com NetBuilder II 3C6000 Power Supply for same Two Ethernet cards for same One HSS V.35/RS232 high-speed serial card for same 16-port serial card for 3Com Communications Server CS/3100 10-BaseT option card for same All items are in Berkeley, CA, and of course no charge (unless you need it shipped, then just actual cost). Patrick From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 10 22:03:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: References: <200211102223.gAAMNXao044702@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20021111042930.GA5912@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Sellam Ismail, from writings of Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 06:44:16PM -0800: > I am. With our nobel gubment now planning to spy on its untrustworthy > citizens, I'm thinking of requiring people to use PGP or something similar > in order to communicate with me via e-mail anymore. Good idea. Let's take that good idea a step further and require the use of PGP in order to post and receive messages on this list... after all, we certainly discuss enough almost slightly subversive, albeit harmless, topics on this list from time to time which are quite possibly causing our eff bee eye, see eye ayy, and who knows what else, files to grow bigger and bigger. After all, some of us could be using ancient and obscure computers, possibly modified for custom uses, which big brother may know nothing about, as a means of hiding data from them that they can't find a way to read. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Nov 10 22:09:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200211110410.XAA72815548@shell.TheWorld.com> >I would need to know more about the contents of the hold before >commiting. The seller says he's looking into providing discriptions. >If I get them, the list will too. The seller also says "SERIOUS bidders >may meet us in Burlington for viewing Tuesday between 9-11". Would >somebody near there like to go look for us? I go by there every day to work up in nashua... I could stop by. I wouldn't mind some company, however, to examine the stuff, but if it is 10-12 skids worth, only the top layer or so would really be visible, unless the auctioner is willing to really allow examination... Megan From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Nov 10 22:09:35 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: <20021111042930.GA5912@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Good idea. Let's take that good idea a step further and require the > use of PGP in order to post and receive messages on this list... But some of us may be See Eye Aye lurkers... (that ought to keep RD up all night) William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 10 23:43:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: watch out for this guys!!! [Fwd: Access restricted: Verify your account information.] In-Reply-To: References: <20021111042930.GA5912@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20021111060910.GB5912@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 11:10:53PM -0500: > > Good idea. Let's take that good idea a step further and require the > > use of PGP in order to post and receive messages on this list... > > But some of us may be See Eye Aye lurkers... We realize that, so we aim to confuse you as well... confusing you is the nature of our game. ;-) > (that ought to keep RD up all night) Nah... the automated potato launchers (and specially modified spuds), pipe cap projectiles and plastic bottle (ain't compressed air great?) land mines, etc. are in place and connected to the security systems while some of us sleep. Pleasant dreams bureaucracy 'droids... we have hackish creativity and imagination on our side. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cb at mythtech.net Sun Nov 10 23:53:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Sellam on TechTV Message-ID: I have a QuickTime Movie of Sellam's section on TechTV's ScreenSavers the other day. Unfortunatly, it is about 11 MB, which is more than I can host over my DSL if it is going to get any number of hits. How many people want me to put this up, or is there someone with a better connection that wants to host it instead? (I also have a slightly higher quality version that is about 21 MB). The clip runs about 9 minutes and requires Apple's QuickTime (if anyone has easy access to an MPEG converter and wants to convert it, feel free). -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 11 01:04:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Any idea about the quality of Verbatim's "Azo" dye? Obviously they hype >it as being far better than other media, but I didn't know if anyone >knows any "truth" about it. > >I have been moving to those because that is what I have been buying for >my VCD recorder. I settled on them because they were the only ones I >could get to work reliably in my VCD recorder when I first got it. It >turned out to be a defective recorder (cooling fan was broken, so the >unit overheated within minutes), and now just about any 74 minute CD-Rs >work in it... but I have stuck with the Verbatim despite the slightly >higher price... simply because I was impressed that they managed to work >consistantly even in a broken recorder. I'd like to know how well they work myself. I've used the Verbatim "Blue's" for years. When I got my first burner back in '97 I researched what was best for Audio work, and found that they were supposed to be about the best combo of price/performance. In that time the only "coaster's" I've made have been the result of problems with my burners (the first one needs to be periodically greased (no joking), the second had the fan burn out in the external case). I've also been using them in the Pioneer DVD burner I got recently. The other brand I use for basically throwaway disks are Memorex CD-R. Though now that you can get spindles of Verbatim "Blue" disks, I'll probably start using them even for my 'throwaway' disks. I've used both brands without any problem for Data, Music, and VCD. Although when using them for VCD I can't get either brand to play in our good JVC progressive scan DVD player :^( I'd also be interested in knowing how well the Verbatim DVD-R disks are for archival purposes as they're what I'm planning to use for a couple of archival projects I have. Unfortunatly those projects are on hold as my DVD burner is currently broken and I just sent it in to get repaired under warrenty. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 11 01:09:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <20021111014629.GF3939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: R. D. Davis wrote: >Does anyone know why there's such little emphasis on permanance in the >computer industry? ... an industry which often resembles a bunch of >chickens running around with their heads cut off. Simple, it's a throwaway industry. The bulk of people in the industry don't think of preservation, and those of us that do are considered 'wierd'. One exception I've seen is photography. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Nov 11 01:21:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <20021111014629.GF3939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Does anyone know why there's such little emphasis on permanance in the > computer industry? That's easy--there's no money in it. -brian. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 01:43:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <000101c28927$f8d90fe0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> References: <32935.64.169.63.74.1036978627.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <000101c28927$f8d90fe0$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <33343.64.169.63.74.1037000651.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Chandra Bajpai" wrote: > I've heard a lot of Taiyo Yuden...what makes them better than anyone of > the others? I don't know what T.Y. does differently than anyone other manufacturer, I just know that the product is more reliable than those from many of their competitors. It doesn't much matter to me exactly HOW they accomplish that; it could be by sprinkling magic fairy dust over them or by having them blessed by a Zoroastrian priest. Or perhaps they use higher quality materials or better manufacturing processes. > How do you know you are getting one of theirs vs. other > mfgs (as you just experienced) By using software that shows the contents of the ATIP data area on the disc. The open-source program cdrecord does this; presumably there must exist other programs that can do it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 11 02:05:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: References: <20021111014629.GF3939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110235742.00ab7b30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:22 PM 11/10/02 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Does anyone know why there's such little emphasis on permanance in the > > computer industry? > >That's easy--there's no money in it. Disbelief. Output looks so nice, we tend to think it should last forever. Lack of exposure to deteriorated items, if you don't see it, it doesn't exist. Cost, compare some archival paper or ink to convential stuff. I was in the Container store the other day looking for storage boxes to put some of our thousands of books into, and when I saw the archival boxes I figured my search was done. Then I looked at the $29.99 price each for the boxes that would hold less than 100 paperbacks. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 11 02:13:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <33343.64.169.63.74.1037000651.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > "Chandra Bajpai" wrote: > > > How do you know you are getting one of theirs vs. other mfgs (as you > > just experienced) > > By using software that shows the contents of the ATIP data area on the > disc. The open-source program cdrecord does this; presumably there must > exist other programs that can do it. You can't always trust that data though. Its unfortunately common for some CD-R manufacturers to sell off old glass masters to budget CD-R companies, who (obviously) can't change the data (that would require creating a whole new glass master). Such companies may then use any one of the numerous dye compounds when making the actual CD-R, which very well may not reflect the stored ATIP data from the glass master. -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 04:56:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: References: <33343.64.169.63.74.1037000651.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <33444.64.169.63.74.1037012228.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tothwolf wrote: > You can't always trust that data though. Its unfortunately common for > some CD-R manufacturers to sell off old glass masters to budget CD-R > companies, who (obviously) can't change the data (that would require > creating a whole new glass master). I can't imagine that any reputable CD-R manufacturers would sell off the masters. In fact, I would assert that selling off the old masters is sufficient cause to consider a CD-R manufacturer to be disreputable. The reason you stop using a master and start using a new one is that the old one is worn out. Making masters isn't that expensive; it would be a stupid place to try to economize on the manufacturing process, but I can believe that some companies might do it. A more serious cause for concern would be if some of the manufacturers deliberately falsified the ATIP data to counterfeit a different manufacturer's ID. I haven't heard of that happening, and I'd expect that any reputable manufacturer upon discovering such behavior from a competitor would take legal action. As a data point, I have NEVER had any trouble with any CD-R that has the Taiyo Yuden manufacturer ID. If I've gotten any conterfeit ones, they're good enough that I didn't notice. On the other hand, if anyone is counterfeiting CMC Magnetics discs, they're doing just as bad a job as CMC. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 11 05:36:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) Message-ID: >I've used both brands without any problem for Data, Music, and VCD. >Although when using them for VCD I can't get either brand to play in our >good JVC progressive scan DVD player :^( This may be a DVD Player issue. I'm assuming that your DVD Player plays Video-CD's in the first place. If so, try using a CD-RW disc (if your burner supports them). I have a Toshiba DVD Player that plays commercial VCD's, or any that I make as long as I use a CD-RW disc. This is apparently not uncommon. -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 11 05:47:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <33444.64.169.63.74.1037012228.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > You can't always trust that data though. Its unfortunately common for > > some CD-R manufacturers to sell off old glass masters to budget CD-R > > companies, who (obviously) can't change the data (that would require > > creating a whole new glass master). > > I can't imagine that any reputable CD-R manufacturers would sell off the > masters. In fact, I would assert that selling off the old masters is > sufficient cause to consider a CD-R manufacturer to be disreputable. The > reason you stop using a master and start using a new one is that the old > one is worn out. Making masters isn't that expensive; it would be a > stupid place to try to economize on the manufacturing process, but I can > believe that some companies might do it. Another (slightly more legitimate?) reason for selling off a master is the seller is changing the characteristics of the CD-R they are producing. The buyer of course, can do whatever they want with the master once they own it, even if they initially use it to continue to produce a similar CD-R. Sadly, this is common practice. Creating masters is also probably the single most expensive part of setting up a huge run of CD-R discs. If a budget manufacturer has a way to cut corners and or costs, they are usually going to do so... > A more serious cause for concern would be if some of the manufacturers > deliberately falsified the ATIP data to counterfeit a different > manufacturer's ID. I haven't heard of that happening, and I'd expect > that any reputable manufacturer upon discovering such behavior from a > competitor would take legal action. I seem to remember reading about some companies falsifying ATIP data in the past. I don't remember the specifics, but Google may turn them up. I dunno if a manufacturer would bother to take legal action over something like that either, since it might be hard to prove or even present in court, and by the time its discovered, 100s of thousands (if not more) counterfeit discs could already be in customers' hands. > As a data point, I have NEVER had any trouble with any CD-R that has the > Taiyo Yuden manufacturer ID. If I've gotten any conterfeit ones, > they're good enough that I didn't notice. On the other hand, if anyone > is counterfeiting CMC Magnetics discs, they're doing just as bad a job > as CMC. I've had good luck with Taiyo Yuden discs that I got from some software vendors (custom software in small batches), but I've not used them much myself. I had horrible experiences with a couple types of CD-R media (burned by other people where I worked), and it pretty much put me off of CD-R in general. Of course, then we had the flooding down here in Houston in 2001, which ruined (* maybe?) 100s of CD-R backups, while the older tapes were/are salvageable. * - Does anyone know how to recover CD-R media that was submersed in very nasty water/sewage for the better part of two weeks? (They've since been cleaned/decontaminated) I didn't notice much in the way of physical damage to the reflective layer, but I suspect there may be some discoloration of the reflective layer at fault in some cases. I didn't have much luck with 'dd' on a Linux box, but perhaps there are better methods, possibly by somehow reading the CD-R directly, one bit at a time? -Toth From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon Nov 11 06:28:01 2002 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <20021111122954.12825.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> Any Teletype ASR33 experts out there ? I have a couple of problems with a teletype that recently came my way. i) When I type a character from the keyboard in local mode, something else gets printed. What gets printed is not consistently the same character. I've watched the selector mechanism while I hit rubout (all marking codebars) and I can see that the codebars are not being consistently selected betwee key presses: sometimes I get 5 of them, sometimes 6 and occasionally all 8. The high order bits seem to be worst affected by this inconsistency. However if I hold down the repeat key and select a character, the right codebars are being selected. I punched a number of characters onto tape to verify this and they seem to be punching OK. This suggests to me that this isn't an electrical problem since whatever code the keyboard is sending is eventually being sensed correctly. ii) In addition to i) above, even if I do get all the codebars moving as required, the wrong characters are being printed. I removed the carriage, cleaned and oiled it and replaced it but this hasn't helped. Any suggestions ? Are there any other diagnostic procedures I can apply to figure out what's happening here ? Right now the unit is not interfaced to anything so any testing needs to be standalone. Thanks, Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk Mon Nov 11 08:01:20 2002 From: M.Clemence at exeter.ac.uk (M.Clemence) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details - more info References: <20021028171700.90694.33000.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DCFFAA7.4060806@exeter.ac.uk> > > >Here, basically, is how the power switch should turn on the PSU. > >Turning on the power switch on the keyboard assembly brings pin 4 of IC >5D low. Thus pin 6 goes high (check both of these). >Pin 6 of IC 5D is connected to pin 9 of the same chip. Pin 10 (other >input of that gate) should also be high -- it comes from IC2B in the >power supply area, and shuts the machine down if the battery is too low >(I think). >So pin 8 of IC5D goes low. This is connected to pin 4 of IC5F. The >output, pin 4, of this gate therefore goes high. This brings pin 2 of >IC7E high, which makes pin 15 low, turning on Q8. > >I would now check all the pins I've mentioned. Something must be wrong in >that area. > > > >>> >>> As an aside, for those who maybe wondering why I'm bothering - I work at >> >> > >That question never occurred to me. The HX20 is a computer, so of course >it should be repaired. > > > >>> If any one would be willing to supply photocopies of the relevant bits >>> of the manual (schematic in >>> particular) I would of course pay towards copying/postage/time. >> >> > >I will see what I can do... > Thanks for the above information - I have only just had chance to act on it so here goes. If I am reading the board correctly IC5D is a 4000 CMOS 2x3 input nor and a not gate. Checking round the pins, the inputs and outputs are logically consistent but pin 4 does not go low when the switch is turned on. Suggesting that some thing is wrong else where on the keyboard board perhaps. ( Also if it is a 4000, then pin 9 and 10 are on separate gates which doesn't agree with the above - maybe you could confirm that it is a 4000 ) However, the power supply voltage to the CMOS chips is very low - bewteen 2.9 and 3.2 depending upon how long it has been plugged in which is right at the low end of the operating range. Unless I am mistaken the supply for a whole set of chips (presumably those that run all the time even when the machine is "off") is provided by Q10. If this is so, Q10 has 4.9V on the C (presumably the main supply) and 3.3 V on the base but only 2.9 V on the emitter which seems to be the chip supply. Is this inference correct and if so are the voltages right ? Again, thanks for all your help, Matthew Clemence From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Nov 11 09:56:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) References: Message-ID: <3DCFD362.134289A5@compsys.to> >Tothwolf wrote: > I've had good luck with Taiyo Yuden discs that I got from some software > vendors (custom software in small batches), but I've not used them much > myself. I had horrible experiences with a couple types of CD-R media > (burned by other people where I worked), and it pretty much put me off of > CD-R in general. Of course, then we had the flooding down here in Houston > in 2001, which ruined (* maybe?) 100s of CD-R backups, while the older > tapes were/are salvageable. Jerome Fine replies: I purchased some Memorex 24X BLACK CD-R 700 MB 80MIN 24X SPEED PREMIUM QUALITY CD-Rs from a store in Toronto that carries many brands. These were a bit higher in price for a box of 10 CD-Rs in plastic cases as opposed to a spindle. The underlayer is clearly black in colour. Can anyone comment as to the quality of these ones? > * - Does anyone know how to recover CD-R media that was submersed in very > nasty water/sewage for the better part of two weeks? (They've since been > cleaned/decontaminated) I didn't notice much in the way of physical damage > to the reflective layer, but I suspect there may be some discoloration of > the reflective layer at fault in some cases. I didn't have much luck with > 'dd' on a Linux box, but perhaps there are better methods, possibly by > somehow reading the CD-R directly, one bit at a time? I use Ersatz-11 under E11 to check all of my CD-Rs AFTER I burn them. I run RT-11 and compare every 2048 byte sector with the ORIGINAL file image that I used when I ran the "Burn Image" option under Nero Burning using Windows 98 SE. It takes me about 8 minutes (22 seconds * 20 RT-11 partitions of 65536 blocks each) to compare a full CD against the original file. I presume that I could also use RT-11 to copy the same data back to the file - in general I have had no success in making an exact copy of the contents of a CD using Nero - or any other method for that matter. The only minor problem is that under the hobby version of E11, you can NOT see the first 16 sectors (64 blocks of 512 bytes). For all ISO 9000 CD file structure, that is not a problem since it is all zeros in any case. Nero Burning does copy those blocks, but hobby E11 can NOT read them. Even Full E11 can't read those first 16 sectors if mounted under the CDROMn: designation. A SCSI drive must be used instead. If you need those CDs burned again, I can help you, although it sounds as if this is a commercial application. PLUS, under RT-11, block 65535 of every RT-11 partition is a wee bit difficult to write to the destination RT-11 partition if you don't know how - until I modify DUP to do it as a standard request in RT-11. Normally I automate the VERIFY portion of the operation when it is being done since 20 BINCOM requests are a pain to initiate when more than one CD-R is being verified. I just verified about 2 dozen, so it was quite easy to do each one. Please let me know if I can help! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 11 10:27:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: <200211072245130196.509AD3C7@192.168.42.129> <7019483325.20021108190710@subatomix.com> <20021109013342.4AD4561564@mamacass.springsips.com> <3DCEEDF8.73094885@compsys.to> <200211110410.XAA72815548@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c2899f$6388a4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> + I asked the seller for a description list and he has replied that he will mail it to me for receipt Tomorrow. That's the best he could do. I've let on that we may have only $1K to spend --- it didn't seem to phase him. At least we have our names in there. - My guess is that the number of 11/60,11/45,11/70 users (where they might specialize) that need 500 lbs of parts and boards is too limited. BTW if anyone knows of a decent NN-NNNNN-NN style part number look up utility or website, let me know. John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 11 11:51:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>I've used both brands without any problem for Data, Music, and VCD. >>Although when using them for VCD I can't get either brand to play in our >>good JVC progressive scan DVD player :^( > >This may be a DVD Player issue. I'm assuming that your DVD Player plays >Video-CD's in the first place. If so, try using a CD-RW disc (if your >burner supports them). > >I have a Toshiba DVD Player that plays commercial VCD's, or any that I >make as long as I use a CD-RW disc. This is apparently not uncommon. It's supposed to be able to play VCD's, I've tried CD-RW and neither it or my old Sony DVD player would read them. It's just like I can't get either DVD player to play DVD-RW. While computers seem to be able to read CD-R/CD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-RW just fine, commecial DVD players have rather spotty support. Anyone interested in knowing if they're player would support a specific format/disk type should consult http://www.vcdhelp.com Of course this is getting rather off topic, unless you consider the possibility of preserving computer related data on old VHS tapes or Laserdisc's. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Nov 11 12:02:30 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Signetics 2650 In-Reply-To: <20021109180001.26931.89218.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021112045910.010ec684@mail.optushome.com.au> >On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Dr. Ido wrote: > >> Several old games systems used the 2650 and it's related display chips 2636 >> and 2637: >> >> The Emerson Arcadia 2001 (and it's many clones by Sheen, Hanimex and others) >> The Radofin 1292/1392 (and it's many clones by Fountain, Grandstand, >> Hanimex and others) >> >> If you just need some 2650 CPUs you could remove them from these consoles. > >Except that those consoles are not like the Atari 2600, i.e. they are >scarce. Arcadia 2001 systems go for at least $50 on eBay. I've seen the genuine Arcadia 2001 get high prices, but clones can be cheaper. Sometimes they are not listed as Arcadia 2001, the carts are not interchangable and they look totally different. The radofin consoles don't seem to attract the same interest, one I sold went for around AU$40 and that was with a stack of boxed games. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Nov 11 12:08:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF5E@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> The auction now has a part list attached (I've not followed this thread too closely, so sorry if it's been mentioned before). >BTW if anyone knows of a decent NN-NNNNN-NN style >part number look up utility or website, let me know. I picked a few of the larger quantity part numbers and threw them into google. The first hit was a large list (or set of lists) of DEC part numbers. All the ones I looked at (1000+ off items) were lamps or cables. The number of actual boards may not be that much. It's possible that some of the part numbers were complete systems or large subassemblies, but I must admit my brief scan through left me somewhat unimpressed (given the $3500 reserve!) But don't let me put anyone off ... there are plenty of parts to check out! Antonio From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 12:10:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32795.64.169.63.74.1037038286.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Zane wrote: > It's supposed to be able to play VCD's, I've tried CD-RW and neither it > or my old Sony DVD player would read them. There's a huge difference between a DVD player being able to play stamped VCDs, and being able to play CD-R. Stamped discs can be read with the red laser used for DVDs, but CD-R must be read with an IR laser. Many DVD players only have the red laser. Trying to use CD-RW is asking for trouble. They have a lower contrast ratio than CD-R, so even DVD players that can handle CD-R may not be able to handle CD-RW. You didn't say how old your Sony DVD player is. Their first generation players, the DVP-S7000 and DVP-S3000, have two lasers and can read CD-R. I've never tried CD-RW in my DVP-S7000, though. From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Nov 11 12:20:01 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: DECmate & DECstation video port pinouts? In-Reply-To: <00af01c2873a$38a22ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.3.32.20021109005553.00fdadfc@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021112051803.010fa9b0@mail.optushome.com.au> At 10:19 AM 11/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >> I've picked up a DECmate III and a DECstation 3100 that I'd >> like to get running, but I don't have monitors for either. >> >> Does anybody have the pinouts for the video ports so I can make >> up some adapters? > >Here for a vaxStation 3100 (and many others): >http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php > >and here for a DECmateIII (and Dec Rainbow, vt240): >http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1999-12/0070.html >from a clever gentleman named Tony Duell > >Note that they emphatically Do Not share the same pin assignments. > >What I'm looking for is if the first one will do Alpha's as well... Thanks. As for the alpha, I've only ever owned a multia and it has a standard VGA connector. Don't the turbochannel alphas have the same video connector as the personal decstations (3 mini coax in a DB15 shell)? or does it depend on the video card? From drido at optushome.com.au Mon Nov 11 12:26:01 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: DECmate & DECstation video port pinouts? In-Reply-To: <1be.13ad2f76.2afdae36@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021112052419.010ed154@mail.optushome.com.au> At 07:17 PM 11/8/02 EST, you wrote: >On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 (downunder time); you posted to classiccmp: > >> I've picked up a DECmate III and a DECstation 3100 that I'd like to get >> running, but I don't have monitors for either. > >> Does anybody have the pinouts for the video ports so I can make up some >> adapters? > >I can help with the DECstation 3100. I am going to paste several files to >the end of this and that should provide you with some info to get started. > >I noticed the 'optus' in your email address. Out of curiosity, do you work >for Optus or is that just your ISP? I ask as I made two trips to Australia >to conduct training classes at Optus. It so happens they were using DEC >equipment for what I was dealing with. > >Hope this helps, Thanks, should have at least one monitor here that will handle once I make up a cable. Optus is only my ISP, I don't work for them. I guess they could use some more training though, with what they consider "service" at times. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Nov 11 12:41:00 2002 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Cromemcos at Re-PC Message-ID: <3DCF8971.18301.1A14B63@localhost> Just out of curiosity, I am wondering... Did anyone here manage to score those Cromemco systems I mentioned a couple months ago that ended up being sent to Re-PC in Seattle? Just hoping that they found a good home. :) -- Scarletdown From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Nov 11 13:13:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Cromemcos at Re-PC In-Reply-To: <3DCF8971.18301.1A14B63@localhost> Message-ID: <086401c289b6$8575fab0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> I sent an email inquiring after them and was told that they do not resell their vintage systems. They have a museum of sorts that I was invited to visit should I ever be in the area. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Scarletdown Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:42 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Cromemcos at Re-PC Just out of curiosity, I am wondering... Did anyone here manage to score those Cromemco systems I mentioned a couple months ago that ended up being sent to Re-PC in Seattle? Just hoping that they found a good home. :) -- Scarletdown From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 11 13:28:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <00eb01c2899f$6388a4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021111192942.66955.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > ...I've let on that we may have only $1K to spend --- it > didn't seem to phase him. At least we have our names in there. Do you mean by this that for only $1000 he'll blow us off, or that he _won't_ blow us off? > My guess is that the number of 11/60,11/45,11/70 users > (where they might specialize) that need 500 lbs of parts > and boards is too limited. The only 11/70 part that I'm (casually) looking for is one or two toggle-switch front panels. Mine have the RDM console. Functional but boring. Most of my DEC stuff is on the lower end than the 11/45- 11/70 range (11/44, 11/24, 11/34...) As I said... for a semi-random 10% of the load, I'm interested at 10% but I don't need 4 (more) tons of DEC stuff unless it's all odd items. > BTW if anyone knows of a decent NN-NNNNN-NN style > part number look up utility or website, let me know. 1-800-DIGITAL? :-) Oops... you said "decent". -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From jss at subatomix.com Mon Nov 11 14:29:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <20021111192942.66955.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021111192942.66955.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71262089454.20021111143036@subatomix.com> On Monday, November 11, 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The only 11/70 part that I'm (casually) looking for is one or two > toggle-switch front panels. Just to put in a word for the other side of the spectrum: I could use just about any 11/70 part. I have an extremely _partial_ DECdatasytem 570, and what *is* there may be too rusty to function. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Nov 11 14:32:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <20021111192942.66955.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Allain wrote: > > ...I've let on that we may have only $1K to spend --- it > > didn't seem to phase him. At least we have our names in there. > > Do you mean by this that for only $1000 he'll blow us off, or that > he _won't_ blow us off? Given that the auction states he can get $4000 for it as scrap, I'm sure he'd not be interested interested in an offer of only $1000. I thought it decent enough of him to offer it for only $3500. That's really not that much money considering it's 3-4 tons of stuff--even if 90% of it by mass turned out to be cables. I think trying to coordinate a purchase between multiple parties would get very messy on such short notice and without having some single trusted party to aggregate the donations and to handle payment. There are certainly a few people here I'd trust in that role, but the people I'd trust might not be the same ones that everyone else would trust. Then there are logistics of distribution to be considered, and anicillary costs such as storage and shipping. Out of curiosity, I asked the seller about the timing for removal, the square footage the gear occupies, and the cost of shipping it to a location where I could store it. He estimates having it ready to go in about 30 days time. As is, it's ten skids of 4x4' dimensions, so 160 sq ft minimum for storing it. Based on what he looked up at freightquote.com, he said it'd be between $1500-$2000 to ship 1000 miles. It'd be a little cheaper if I didn't need a truck with a liftgate, but I don't have a loading dock :-) And when I look at $5000, that amount is a bit much--even given that I think the contents are still worth it. -brian. From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 11 14:36:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:50 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) Message-ID: >Trying to use CD-RW is asking for trouble. They have a lower contrast >ratio than CD-R, so even DVD players that can handle CD-R may not be >able to handle CD-RW. You would think, but from what I found when researching why mine couldn't play CD-Rs, it is actually VERY common for a DVD Player to fail to play CD-Rs, but plays a CD-RW just fine. So common, that apparently, it is the norm for a DVD Player that can play home brew VCD's will only work with CD-RW, unless is specifically mentions that it works with CD-R. At least this was true a few years ago when I was looking for info. And beyond research, in my informal polling of friends and their DVD players (mix of old and new models)... I found the fact holds true. Out of about a dozen DVD players I have ready access to (ie: I can go to someone's house, and try a disc). One could not play any kind of VCD. Of those that could, I think there were 3 that only played commercial stamped VCDs, the rest could play home brew VCDs. In all cases where they could play home brew VCDs, all could play CD-RW, and 2 could play CD-Rs. The two that could play CD-Rs both specifically mentioned that they handled CD-R media. One was a multi-format, multi-region unit, and the other was a brand new one that even did MP3 audio CDs (which was kind of cool). And interestingly with one player, it had problems playing discs created by my computer, but no problems with one created with my VCD burner (it could play either, but the computer made one wasn't recognized every time... sometimes you had to eject the disc, and reinsert it a few times before the DVD player would accept the disc). -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 11 14:45:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! Message-ID: <200211112046.MAA10795@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dan Veeneman" > >At 08:31 PM 11/9/02 +0100, you wrote: >>My own favorite (otehr than my HP-16 ;-) is a CASIO CM-100 "computer math >>calc". > >I too prefer the HP-16C, but the CM-100 is a nice design. I have a photo >of one >up on my Casio calculator page, http://www.decodesystems.com/casiocalcs.html > >A very similar discussion of hex-capable calculators occurred recently on >Slashdot, along with a link to my page. As is to be expected, ClassicCmpers >covered the same ground much more quickly. :-) > >>The nice thing is they have no batteries, just a "solar panel" and do not >>seem to need much light to function properly. > >The CM-100 functions very well in surprisingly low light. However, when I >need to >do hex conversions (which I did for a while in developing code for a >Motorola OnCore >GPS chipset), I prefer the HP-16C. > > Hi I have a pocket calculator that I would love to replace with a newer one ( because this one is dying ). It is a mix of solar/battery or one can use it in low light as well. I've replaced the battery twice since I've owned it. It doe very convenient Dec/Hex/Binary/Octal conversions as well. It doesn't seem that these types are being made anymore. It is a radio shack model EC-4024 which I assume is a relabeled Sharp EL-4024. I've been watching and there just isn't anything like this in the stores. Dwight From rodyoung at shaw.ca Mon Nov 11 16:06:00 2002 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: M7547 doc? References: <3.0.3.32.20021112045910.010ec684@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <003a01c289ce$8ad0c040$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> Anyone happen to have any scanned DOC for an M7547 (TUK50 controller) ? Thanks! rod From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 16:08:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2229.4.20.168.158.1037052468.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > Trying to use CD-RW is asking for trouble. They have a lower contrast > ratio than CD-R, so even DVD players that can handle CD-R may not be > able to handle CD-RW. chris wrote: > You would think, but from what I found when researching why mine > couldn't play CD-Rs, it is actually VERY common for a DVD Player to > fail to play CD-Rs, but plays a CD-RW just fine. So common, that > apparently, it is the norm for a DVD Player that can play home brew > VCD's will only work with CD-RW, unless is specifically mentions that > it works with CD-R. This suggests that while CD-R has a poor contrast ratio for the infrared used in CD players/drives, that perhaps it actually has a better contrast ratio for red as used in DVD players. But this is just speculation on my part. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 16:10:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <200211112046.MAA10795@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200211112046.MAA10795@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1173.4.20.168.158.1037052575.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > It is a radio shack model EC-4024 which I assume > is a relabeled Sharp EL-4024. I've been watching and > there just isn't anything like this in the stores. Typically Radio Shack model numbers do NOT correspond to the original manufacturer model numbers. At the moment, I can't think of any I've seen that actually did correspond, but perhaps there were some. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 11 16:19:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: from "Eric Smith" at Nov 11, 2002 10:11:26 AM Message-ID: <200211112220.gABMKvi08735@shell1.aracnet.com> > Zane wrote: > > It's supposed to be able to play VCD's, I've tried CD-RW and neither it > > or my old Sony DVD player would read them. > > There's a huge difference between a DVD player being able to play stamped > VCDs, and being able to play CD-R. Stamped discs can be read with the > red laser used for DVDs, but CD-R must be read with an IR laser. Many > DVD players only have the red laser. Ah. Any idea what type laser is needed for DVD-R then? > You didn't say how old your Sony DVD player is. Their first generation > players, the DVP-S7000 and DVP-S3000, have two lasers and can read CD-R. > I've never tried CD-RW in my DVP-S7000, though. I really had to think about how old it is! I got it about four years ago, though the model had been out for a while. IIRC, it was a midrange model, and I think it was one of the second generation players (I'd have had a first generation player, IF, they'd brought out the Star Wars Trilogy). Zane From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 11 16:35:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <200211112220.gABMKvi08735@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Eric Smith" at Nov 11, 2002 10:11:26 AM <200211112220.gABMKvi08735@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3502.4.20.168.158.1037054213.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Ah. Any idea what type laser is needed for DVD-R then? AFAIK, all of the DVD formats use a red laser for reading and writing. Apparently the DVD consortium is NOT going to approve a new high-def format using a blue laser (as proposed by the BluRay companies), but is instead choosing to use higher compression ratios instead. I already find the artifacts on current DVD-Video to be somewhat objectionable (though generally not as bad as the noise on VHS tapes), so I'm not thrilled about the idea of compressing it even more. While I'm sure that newer compression technology will be somewhat better for the same bit rate as MPEG 2, I doubt that it's really four times better. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 11 16:36:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! In-Reply-To: <1173.4.20.168.158.1037052575.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200211112046.MAA10795@clulw009.amd.com> <200211112046.MAA10795@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021111174059.51c73852@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> You could check with Guy Ball. He'd almost certainly know who made it. Probably th ebest place to find a replacement would be E-bay. Joe At 02:09 PM 11/11/02 -0800, Eric wrote: >Dwight wrote: >> It is a radio shack model EC-4024 which I assume >> is a relabeled Sharp EL-4024. I've been watching and >> there just isn't anything like this in the stores. > >Typically Radio Shack model numbers do NOT correspond to the >original manufacturer model numbers. At the moment, I can't >think of any I've seen that actually did correspond, but >perhaps there were some. > > > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 11 16:54:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: calculators, was: Re: Best Find of the Weekend! Message-ID: <200211112255.OAA10831@clulw009.amd.com> Hi At the time I bought it, I believe I checked on this and to break the rule, the numbers did correspond on many of the relabeled Sharp calculators. I'll have to admit, I never saw the matching Sharp for this calculator but I had seen others that RS sold and the only difference was the EC was changed from EL. The numbers were the same. Dwight >From: "Eric Smith" > >Dwight wrote: >> It is a radio shack model EC-4024 which I assume >> is a relabeled Sharp EL-4024. I've been watching and >> there just isn't anything like this in the stores. > >Typically Radio Shack model numbers do NOT correspond to the >original manufacturer model numbers. At the moment, I can't >think of any I've seen that actually did correspond, but >perhaps there were some. > > > > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Nov 11 18:35:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Cromemcos at Re-PC In-Reply-To: <086401c289b6$8575fab0$90f8b8ce@impac.com> References: <3DCF8971.18301.1A14B63@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111163811.03bd26c0@mail.zipcon.net> At 11:14 AM 11/11/02 -0800, you wrote: >I sent an email inquiring after them and was told that they do not >resell their vintage systems. They have a museum of sorts that I was >invited to visit should I ever be in the area. > >Erik S. Klein >www.vintage-computer.com IF it ended up in their museum, most of the time it either ends up in as-is or goes right in the dumpster (if they don't realize what it is)..... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 11 18:37:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 repair details - more info In-Reply-To: <3DCFFAA7.4060806@exeter.ac.uk> from "M.Clemence" at Nov 11, 2 01:44:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021111/898945c5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 11 18:37:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems In-Reply-To: <20021111122954.12825.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> from "David Comley" at Nov 11, 2 04:29:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021111/68cb5a87/attachment.ksh From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Nov 11 18:53:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Apple /// ProFile drivers Message-ID: <000301c289e5$fc3a4af0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Does anyone have the drivers for an Apple /// ProFile Hard Disk subsystem? I've had no luck finding these on the net. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Erik S. Klein -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021111/06a39551/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 11 19:39:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Apple /// ProFile drivers In-Reply-To: <000301c289e5$fc3a4af0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Does anyone have the drivers for an Apple /// ProFile Hard Disk > subsystem? I've had no luck finding these on the net. Erik, I do. You're going to have to schedule a trip over to my warehouse soon. Many Apple ]['s await ye. Unfortunately, my weekend schedule is wacked. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 11 19:40:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? Message-ID: Does anyone here have a TI Explorer or TI 1500? I'm especially after the original manuals and software that came with it, specifically a program called "LMENU" (something like that). If anyone has it and wants to make a little dough please come forward. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 11 20:57:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <200211120257.SAA10938@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >> Any Teletype ASR33 experts out there ? I have a couple >> of problems with a teletype that recently came my way. > >I believe the ASR33 manauls are available on a web site somewhere. If >you don't have them as printed books, then you want to get these files >and print them. They make life a lot easier. OK, I did a complete >strip-down, clean, oil, reassemble and adjust job on an ASR33 without the >manuals (and with never having seen the manuals), but then I tend to do >crazy things like that... > >> >> i) When I type a character from the keyboard in local >> mode, something else gets printed. What gets printed >> is not consistently the same character. I've watched >> the selector mechanism while I hit rubout (all marking >> codebars) and I can see that the codebars are not >> being consistently selected betwee key presses: >> sometimes I get 5 of them, sometimes 6 and >> occasionally all 8. The high order bits seem to be >> worst affected by this inconsistency. However if I >> hold down the repeat key and select a character, the >> right codebars are being selected. I punched a number >> of characters onto tape to verify this and they seem >> to be punching OK. This suggests to me that this isn't > >If the character _always_ punches correctly, then the right codebars are >being selected. So I assume this is not the case. Hi I think you need to make this point clearer. When a character is punched, the same character is miss printed on the platen? This is how I read his original post. This tells me it is something sticking in the linkage that goes between the code bars and the print head( or he has it installed wrong but that doesn't explain why it starts working with repeats ). I would remove the print assembly and put it in some solvent while moving the levers. Then clean it off/dry it and re-oil it. You most likely have some dry oil that is sluggish. Getting oil into the right place will take a bit. In the service( military ), we used to clean things in a bath of water and heavy detergent. This was done in an ultrasonic cleaner. We'd then rinse and bake it at about 150F for a few hours. Then Re-oil/grease, place on test bench and fine adjust. I suspect that a good dish washing liquid would work. You can find manuals at: http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=teletype&stype=Partial+Wo rd&fields=id%2Ctitle%2Cdate&debug=0&table=pdp8docs&orderby=sort%2Ctitle You'll need to paste it back together after the mail chops it. Dwight > >Basically, there are 3 possible problem areas : > >1) The keyboard contacts are not closing correctly, so the parallel data >output of the keyboard is incorrect. > >2) The distributor disk (rear right of the typing unit) is not correctly >serialising the data from the keyboard. Unlikely, but possible. > >3) The selector unit (rear left of the typing unit) is malfunctioning, >and is not correclty responding the receiving magnet. > >I would check (3) first. It may need to be removed, dismantled, cleaned, >and re-lubricated. It's not uncommon for parts to stick on old, gummy, >lubricant. > >> an electrical problem since whatever code the keyboard >> is sending is eventually being sensed correctly. >> >> ii) In addition to i) above, even if I do get all the >> codebars moving as required, the wrong characters are >> being printed. I removed the carriage, cleaned and >> oiled it and replaced it but this hasn't helped. > >How did you clean it? I have found that soaking compete assemblies in >solvent doesn't help much. You really have to take all the parts apart, >clean them, and then re-assemble them. If yoy've done this, then there >are a lot of sdjustment you'd have to set up. > >A character decoding problem must be in the carriage. There are 4 parts >to the decoder mechanism : > >2 bits -> one of 4 levels of lift of the type cylinder >1 bit -) rotate cylinder left or right >2 bits -> one of 4 angles (pairs of characters) of rotation of the cylinder >1 bit -> an extra 1 character angle rotate (it moves the selector bars >for the previous rotation selection slightly...). > >Figure out which mechanism is malfunctioning by comparing the position of >the character you get with the position of the character you should be >getting. Then work out what's not operating properly. > >-tony > > From spector at zeitgeist.com Mon Nov 11 21:56:20 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs Message-ID: I just took delivery of a PDP-11/23 with (amongst other things) 4 RL02 drivers on it . The system was in the hands of another collector in florida and has not been powered up in quite a while. I would like to make sure the drivers are cleaned and lubed before I attempt to power them up... does anyone have any points to a print-set and maintenance data for these drives? Any experiences people have had bringing RL02s back to life would be greatly appreciated! Also, any pointers/experiences re: potential cleaning issues of old RL02 packs themselves would be helpful too... regards, David Spector ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - David HM Spector spector@zeitgeist.com software architecture - network/security consultation technical due diligence - technology planning/analysis Office:(631)261-5013 Cell: (631)431-5756 From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 12 00:29:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32792.64.169.63.74.1037082648.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I would like to make sure the drivers are cleaned and lubed before I > attempt to power them up... Most drivers are maintenance free, although it depends to some extent on what operating system you are using. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 12 01:23:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Longevity of CD-R (was RE: Preserving Newspaper.) In-Reply-To: <3502.4.20.168.158.1037054213.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: from "Eric Smith" at Nov 11, 2002 10:11:26 AM <200211112220.gABMKvi08735@shell1.aracnet.com> <3502.4.20.168.158.1037054213.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > Ah. Any idea what type laser is needed for DVD-R then? > >AFAIK, all of the DVD formats use a red laser for reading and writing. > >Apparently the DVD consortium is NOT going to approve a new high-def >format using a blue laser (as proposed by the BluRay companies), but >is instead choosing to use higher compression ratios instead. I already >find the artifacts on current DVD-Video to be somewhat objectionable >(though generally not as bad as the noise on VHS tapes), so I'm not >thrilled about the idea of compressing it even more. While I'm sure >that newer compression technology will be somewhat better for the >same bit rate as MPEG 2, I doubt that it's really four times better. The bomb of confusion that manufacturers aren't quite ready to drop yet are the High Definition formats, and most certainly they are on the way. The software side (movies) is very worried about releasing material with a serious advance in quality for a whole host of reasons. The hardware people know they are dead if they don't get mainstream sell through on HD and that means plenty of software coming soon. HD TV can be stunning, but right now there is so little to watch, and almost nothing entertaining. OTOH I could see it easily becoming the hugely popular home movie format, ala 8mm chemical cameras of the 50s. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 12 03:26:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, David HM Spector wrote: > I just took delivery of a PDP-11/23 with (amongst other things) 4 RL02 > drivers on it . A small point: you will possibly cause confusion, semantically - what you have are RL02 *drives*. The "drivers" are software modules installed in your Operating System to allow it to properly interface with the Drives. > > I would like to make sure the drivers are cleaned and lubed before I > attempt to power them up... does anyone have any points to a print-set > and maintenance data for these drives? If not available on-line or from nearer sources, I have one spare printset for the RL02 subsystem - the physical drive and the single-card Unibus adapter for it, and the cable. They are 11x14 size and hard to get copied easily. Let me know if you have trouble finding doc closer to you. These are quite common, BTW, should be fairly easy. (ha!!) ;} In the case of the /23, the adapter card is different, but the drive is the same. Any experiences people have had > bringing RL02s back to life would be greatly appreciated! Depending on the operating environment, you will most likely need to find clean (or new) HEPA filters and install them. A thorough vacuuming with a soft-brushed wand is in order as well. It is doubtful that the shipping lockscrews have been installed on the bottom of the drives, but slide them out and check. They are marked as to which two are the locks. The heads are retracted and locked automagically - IIRC there is a shipping lock for the head motor, but that is all I can recall specifically. Look on the right-hand side of the drive near the middle and close to the chassis slide. There should be a small metal cover with a couple of screws. take this off, and there is a lever hidden in there, pulling it just the right way will release the lid-latch and allow you to remove the disk pack w/out powering up the drive. If it is the older style with no access cover, you can remove the screws in the rear top cover and finesse the lids off - or, you can power up the system with the load switches 'OUT' and then remove the packs. Pushing 'IN' the load switches with power and clock reaching the drives will spin them up - not a good idea at this point. Then you can clean the drive compartment and most likely swab the heads with a soft q-tip and a 50/50 mixture of hydroflouric and fuming nitric acids. No, wait, I meant isopropyl alcohol - sorry. 70% or 90% to avoid getting a lot of residual water left on the heads. Of course the usual cautions apply when cleaning large, old, delicate disk drive heads - be sure to leave no lint, residue, debris, etc. > Also, any > pointers/experiences re: potential cleaning issues of old RL02 packs > themselves would be helpful too... > Others may have more experience than I on actually cleaning the packs, but unless they have been stored in a swamp or out of thier covers for long periods of time, and have not been physically abused (if DEC packs, they'll have 'shock-watch' indicators on them [at least all mine do] to tell you if they've been dropped, they are probably OK. IIRC there are machines that clean and verify the packs, but I've never seen one except in pictures. Hope this helps a bit - I'm quite jealous now as I'm actively looking for another two RL02 drives for my 11/44... you lucky dog! Cheers John From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Nov 12 03:48:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF60@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >attempt to power them up... does anyone have any points to a print-set >and maintenance data for these drives? Any experiences people have had You can find RL02 stuff at: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ Antonio From drido at optushome.com.au Tue Nov 12 06:45:00 2002 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: DECmate III video too wide for the monitor? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20021112234246.01111698@mail.optushome.com.au> I've made an adapter to connect a DECmate III to a standard composite monitor (using the details posted here, thanks), but I haven't been able to get any of my monitors to work properly with it. On every monitor I've tried so far the one or both sides of the picture stretch off the screen and the h-pos/h-width controls do not provide enough adjustment to correct it. Is there a fix for this? Any suggestions of monitors that will work other than a VR201 (old mono monitors are getting hard to find around here, let alone a VR201). From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 12 09:07:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: DECmate III video too wide for the monitor? References: <3.0.3.32.20021112234246.01111698@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <000701c28a5d$46dd6020$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > (old mono monitors are getting hard to find > around here, let alone a VR201). I think the idea is to use a TV style monitor, IE find a TV with a video in jack and a switch that skips the channel selector. If your TV doesn't have video in then a thing called a video modulator will accomodate. VCRs can perform this function by themselves. John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Nov 12 09:53:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: micom 2000 pictures, etc. Message-ID: I've put up some pictures of the micom 2000: http://osi.webhop.net/ (follow the link from the main page) Be patient, the server is on a low end ADSL connection. If someone wants to copy these somewhere faster, please do. I'm going to keep it, so I need to move another system instead. I have a Commodore CBM 8032 with an 8050 dual 5 1/4" drive. Good cosmetic condition, unknown operational condition, no software, documentation or fuse holders. I'll put up some pictures tonight. It's a good bit lighter than the micom, but I would still prefer a local pick up if possible. Bill From jss at subatomix.com Tue Nov 12 10:23:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. In-Reply-To: <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com> <001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <84333731330.20021112102438@subatomix.com> On Sunday, November 10, 2002, Christopher McNabb wrote: > One thing I did with a one hundred and fifty year old family bible was to > photograph the family record pages using I've seen a similar method used at the University of Oklahoma's History of Science Collections. The HoSC has a bunch of really old books, including, for instance, Galileo's own personal copy of Galileo's notorious "Dialog". There's a guy in an office there who has a rather large (and, I assume, high-res) digital camera set up on some sort of stand below which books can be postioned. He can often be seen in there taking pictures of old books and working in some graphics program to align the pages, etc. As for how they preserve the actual paper: (0) Vault is kept at 50 degrees F, 50% humidity (1) Clean agent fire suppression system (halon in this case) (2) When books are brought out for researchers, they have to warm to room temperature before anyone can touch them -- Jeffrey Sharp From Qstieee at aol.com Tue Nov 12 10:29:01 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs Message-ID: <127.1a5dcead.2b028676@aol.com> Suggest you contact trestivo@concentric.net From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Nov 12 10:30:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: micom 2000 pictures, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm going to keep it, so I need to move another > system instead. I have a Commodore CBM 8032 with > an 8050 dual 5 1/4" drive. Good cosmetic condition, > unknown operational condition, no software, > documentation or fuse holders. I'll put up some > pictures tonight. It's a good bit lighter than the > micom, but I would still prefer a local pick up if > possible. Forgot to mention that I am in the northern suburbs of Washington, DC. Bill From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Nov 12 10:40:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: All, Help! My cute little Vax 4000 VLC appears to be dying on me. * Is there a service manual on-line for this machine? Any suggestions on where to get one? I want things like connector pinouts (to see if there's a power-fail line, or some such, and what it's expected to be), expected PS voltages, things like that. * Is there someone near San Antonio with a working VLC that they don't mind if I abuse for voltage measurements, etc? Description of failure: 1) last time I played with it several months ago, it failed to boot for a while with the VRC-16, LK-401, and mouse plugged into the graphics card (yes I had S3 set correctly, because it later booted that way). Problem went away, and I assumed there were intermittent problems with the graphics card. (I'd never seen this with a console plugged into the MMJ). 2) Yesterday, it booted and ran for 2-3 hours with the VRC and kb. I happily assumed the "graphics card problem" had cured itself. I logged in, registered my Hobbyist licence, and started doing same on another (Alpha) machine. After a while, my wife came in and started fooling with HELP on the VAX. She hit 4 returns in a row, and it went dead (screen black). Tried re-start, no-go. Got rid of the VRC-16 and LK-401, plugged in the VT-320, reset S3. It *tried* to boot, but failed. 3) now, left power-on, the 8 LED's are on most of the time. Occasionally, they will flash patterns, and the console will show the initial banner and start the memory test. *Very* occasionally, it'll get as far as the chevron. This morning, after being off all night, it got to the chevron, accepted the "b dka100" command, and got about half way through the boot - then the 8 LED's came on and it was back to ground zero. Tests run last night: Pulled one and then both banks of RAM - no change. Pulled the graphics card - no change. Disconnected power and SCSI cable to hard drive - no change. Reseated all (4) socketed chips (maybe ROM and the Dallas time module?) on the motherboard. - no change. Did some measurements (details available) that make me think that 12V is actually about 11.5V, and 5V is actually about 5.1V. Gotta confirm this, my only tool is an old Radio Shack Archerkit analog, and I want to try it on a known voltage source. Tried to turn on without PS connected to motherboard (accidentally). Green LED on power supply board flashes, PS board makes crowbarring kind of noice. (Green LED is otherwise on steady starting about 0.5 sec. after switch closes until switch open). In the above, "no change" means LED's stayed lit - I didn't run long enough in any of those configs to see if it'd try to boot after a while. Power supply appears to be a switcher - lots of heavy heat-sinks on transistors, lots of diodes, dozens of resistors. Multi-layer PC board. There are several electrolytic (I think - cans, black wrapping over a silver-looking can) caps, as well as some other types I don't recognize. System is in pretty clean condition; I did not take out the motherboard but cleaned the visible side of it with a brush and IPA. The only real dirt accumulation was near the fans. No change. I obviously had it fairly far apart last night, so I was extremely pleased to see it start to boot this morning - disassembly by me is usually the death of a system. This one is nice to work on, mechanically. But it's still not running. I'm on digest mode on the list, so I'll be slow at replying unless you hit me at mtapley@swri.edu. Even then, I'm having minor email issues so there's often a couple hour delay. But I'll sure appreciate any help! - Mark PS: On Friday, I said (WRT big auction of DEC parts)... >...I don't think I need any parts now. The irony is not lost but not particularly appreciated :-(. But the question is which parts.... I'm tempted to just haul off and order a new power supply - I'm pretty sure I can board-swap that without killing anything. From emu at ecubics.com Tue Nov 12 11:22:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? References: Message-ID: <3DD139FD.3070202@ecubics.com> Mark Tapley wrote: > All, > Help! My cute little Vax 4000 VLC appears to be dying on me. I have some spare 4000/vlc mainboards here if it helps ;-) From emu at ecubics.com Tue Nov 12 11:24:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: hp 85 Message-ID: <3DD13A5C.6080806@ecubics.com> Anybody out here likes to get rid of one ? Would be interested in a working/nice model. Looks like the discussion of the HP calculators got me into that ;-) cheers From david_comley at yahoo.com Tue Nov 12 11:51:00 2002 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <20021112175212.66233.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> >Hi >I think you need to make this point clearer. When a character >is punched, the same character is miss printed on the platen? >This is how I read his original post. Even using the REPT key to workaround the codebar issue, I wasn't able to connect the carriage problem conclusively to either a rotational or a vertical problem. I think at this point I'm going to take the carriage off again and try a more thorough dismantle/clean/oil. Once I resolve the codebar issue it will be easier to diagnose the carriage problem with a clean mechanism. >This tells me it is something sticking in the linkage that goes >between the code bars and the print head( or he has it installed >wrong but that doesn't explain why it starts working with repeats ). >I would remove the print assembly and put it in some solvent >while moving the levers. Then clean it off/dry it and re-oil >it. You most likely have some dry oil that is sluggish. Getting >oil into the right place will take a bit. >In the service( military ), we used to clean things in a bath >of water and heavy detergent. This was done in an ultrasonic >cleaner. We'd then rinse and bake it at about 150F for a few >hours. Then Re-oil/grease, place on test bench and fine adjust. >I suspect that a good dish washing liquid would work. I remember using an arklone bath at a place I worked years ago for cleaning circuit boards. Probably taken a few years off my live expectancy breathing that stuff in. > >Basically, there are 3 possible problem areas : > >1) The keyboard contacts are not closing correctly, so the parallel data >output of the keyboard is incorrect. > >2) The distributor disk (rear right of the typing unit) is not correctly >serialising the data from the keyboard. Unlikely, but possible. > >3) The selector unit (rear left of the typing unit) is malfunctioning, >and is not correclty responding the receiving magnet. > I can see the armature 'stutter' when I punch the rubout key - by stutter, I mean that its movement looks slightly different between keypresses. So I'm inclined to think that the magnet is just responding to what it is receiving which is incorrect. I cleaned the distributor and reseated the brushes, readjusted the brush holder to the alignment mark per the adjustment procedure in the manual. So I'm back to option 1) - the keyboard - as the source of the problem. One thing I noticed last night was that the keyboard cover is broken. There are four round tabs, one at each corner, that fit into corresponding holes on the end plates. These are broken, so the cover can rock from side to side, pivoting on those center projections. I wonder if that could cause some sort of alignment problem within the keyboard ? Thanks for the suggestions - I will get to it again tonight and see what else I can find out. I hate the idea of opening that keyboard up... Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From benb at Basit.COM Tue Nov 12 12:47:08 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it Message-ID: <200211121848.gACImJH15432@misrad.basit.com> I'm curious if anyone can ID this chip on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070850586&rd=1 Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are?! Ben From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 12 13:41:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? Message-ID: Since I'm (mostly to very dumb) when it comes to these things - I would like to ask for opinions/advice/recommendations from the List on what the best way would be to attach one of the terminal ports on the machine to the Net, to allow folks to telnet in and play with the system remotely. I was thinking phone-line -> modem-> Net-to-serial-box-> 11/44 port. There are 30 ports, all will run at least 9600, and I do have a registered and hosted (though inactive) domain name... not that the two would be related. This would of course be for during the periods that the system was on... and I sure as Hell am *not* considering leaving 'er up 24/7... electricity, noise, hAxOrZ (in that order) would deter that. Might be fun to have a mirrored emulator tho... Anyway - those of you who are smart in this area: how owuld you do this? Cheers John From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Nov 12 14:14:01 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it References: <200211121848.gACImJH15432@misrad.basit.com> Message-ID: <3DD15FC1.D6F9EC0D@xs4all.nl> Not very special. AFAIK these holes are part of the production (assembly line) process. Ed Benedict Bridgewater wrote: > > I'm curious if anyone can ID this chip on eBay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070850586&rd=1 > > Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are?! > > Ben -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 12 14:15:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay References: Message-ID: <001501c28a88$6e72d540$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Here's a report on the parts list I recieved. Company: Peripheral Parts Support, Inc. Report-Date: 05 NOV 2002 Report-Pages: 129 Printing-Time:40 minutes (dotmatrix) line items: 2200 (estimated) If you worried that this would all be sheet metal parts and screws, you would be more right than wrong. The bulk of the parts by count may be the 90-06xxx'es, there could be 10,000 of them, and, they're screws and washers. There are blank lines in the report and alot of times they'll list something really interesting like 'Alpha XP1000' in the report and then it'll be qty 0. Good stuff (there's some): keyboards and mice: maybe 20 of each; 11/34 console cards: 4; consoles: 2; RD52's: 4; 11/23 panel: 3; 512M AXP mem: 2; UDA50: 1; RA80: 1; RD52: 4; Possibly (I won't guarantee): There may be alot of VT100 adv video boards. At present I would commit no more than $400.00 for a 100% share, in other words I'm not interested enough to commit. This could be a pain. Just unboxing to scrap could be a man week. Anybody want 200 lbs of plastic bags? John A. Re: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Nov 12 14:17:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: DECmate III video too wide for the monitor? References: <3.0.3.32.20021112234246.01111698@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <3DD16F2E.AD688D9B@ccp.com> "Dr. Ido" wrote: > > I've made an adapter to connect a DECmate III to a standard composite > monitor (using the details posted here, thanks), but I haven't been able to > get any of my monitors to work properly with it. On every monitor I've > tried so far the one or both sides of the picture stretch off the screen > and the h-pos/h-width controls do not provide enough adjustment to correct it. > > Is there a fix for this? Any suggestions of monitors that will work other > than a VR201 (old mono monitors are getting hard to find around here, let > alone a VR201). I don't know if this might work, but we used to do it in the old days . . . . Slide the yoke back on the neck a fraction of an inch/centimeter. This was the way Sony Trinitrons controlled deflection on the older sets. If it is color, you'll have to go through convergence; if it is b&w you're home free. Watch out for distortions. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Nov 12 14:20:00 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Garage Sale updates Message-ID: <20021112120935.P85628-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; After spending the last few (nearly 4) weeks sorting out the carnage from a Windoze induced system disaster... I'm getting back to being not significantly more behind than I was before the whole thing blew up in my face... Of course in the interim, I missed VCF 5 (snarkle, ramfle, mutter) and who knows what else... Most people who have claimed items from the Computer Garage 'Garage Sale' should have received them by now, thought the most recent three or four are still awaiting transport to the post. (my bad) And... still trying to remain above water, there are some new updates on the 'Garage Sale' page. http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale And, since some of you have asked... There is also a link from the sale page to a 'State of the Garage' page, which attempts to detail the current state of affairs in my world. Note that I am still writing on this, so consider it to be in flux for the time being. Regards; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 12 14:21:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it References: <200211121848.gACImJH15432@misrad.basit.com> Message-ID: <001f01c28a89$2def3800$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070850586&rd=1 > Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are? They're away from the "chip" proper so probably not important. My guess is for a two fingered assembly gripper to get it. John A. From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Nov 12 14:25:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it References: <200211121848.gACImJH15432@misrad.basit.com> Message-ID: <019901c28a88$68ead140$086dbd18@n4fs> DIP packages where still relatively new in the early 70's. Most of the IC's that I worked with in the 60's into the late 60's and early 70's were typically flat-packs, or TO-5 style either in metal or molded plastic cases. This is a big chip with 40 pins. It is my guess that the holes where there to assure alignment during DIP insertion. I remember when DIPs came out. I never thought they would last. Boy was I wrong. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benedict Bridgewater" > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070850586&rd=1 > > Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are?! > > Ben From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 12 14:29:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? References: Message-ID: <004501c28a8a$5fb65520$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- I'm tempted to just haul off and order a new +AD4- power supply - I'm pretty sure I can board-swap +AD4- that without killing anything. Get the PSU part number and I'll look it up, or check: http://pages.prodigy.net/ppsjm/PART+ACU-20NUMBER.htm John A. From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 12 14:31:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: <004f01c28a8a$8dc65320$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> email recall.... > I'm tempted to just haul off and order a new > power supply - I'm pretty sure I can board-swap > that without killing anything. Get the PSU part number and I'll look it up, or check: http://pages.prodigy.net/ppsjm/PART%20NUMBER.htm John A. From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 12 15:08:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: micom 2000 pictures, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DD11A39.3979.4BF2733@localhost> That's great news and good pics. I don't find it slow at all. I've been procrastinating about putting up a MICOM page for years. Now it's time for me to get off my keister and scan the documentation I've got, and also make copies of some of the 8" floppies. I've been avoiding mastering the process of transferring them to 5.25 back to when Tim Shippa and others described the process in detail on the list. Also the bunch of TRS-80 mod.II disks I have. Mea culpa. Some years ago I had an 8032 which I fiddled with and even tediously copied some programs from public library back-issues of early magazines, entered them line-by-line and put them on cassette tape. I eventually gave it away. It wasn't nearly as interesting a machine as the MICOM. And fairly common at the time. Altho the fold-up top was interesting. It's been some time since I've used my Micom. It developed a problem with one of the keyboard lines. I can't remember whether it was the "command" button or the "Tab", but it multiplexed some other commands so limiting it's functioning. I thought it might be one of the KBs strange capacitors, but now I suspect it's likely only a cable fault. The latch on my Shugart was broken and I fashioned a quick fix with a wood wedge. My TRS80 mod.II has the same problem. I'll get it functioning again and likely, if the KB permits, simply making a duplicate of the 2 OS disks would be the easiest way to get it to you. I'll also scan the docs and eventually the other material I have, like the Philips newsletters, communications and advertising. The cables shouldn't be a problem to replace in an urban center. Up here in the boonies, it's a MS-Winslop world, so it's more of a problem. I might ask a favor of getting some ribbon cable in return later on. It would be good to get a closer shot of the KB. What looks like a numerical keypad on the righthand side in the pic is actually the function controls. Do you know how close the backplane is to the S-100 configuration ? I've never seen an S-100 in the flesh. Good stuff. I'll get back to you off-list once I get mine up and functioning again. Guess this puts my DEC Pro 350, TRS80 mod.II with the 3 HDs, Osborne 1, and H/Z 89 further back in the to-do queue. Oh well. One thing that comes to mind is what Philips still has in their archives and whether they'd release it. At least till Dec/90 when I contacted them, they had Micom 2000 programs for sale. They also had something called the Power Pac II software. The later Micom versions up to 84 were the 2001, 2002, 3003, and 3004. The 2001 had dual disks, the 2002 Twin Satellite, 2 displays and 2 keyboards. Charley Fox a list member has/had a 2001, dont know what model. Lawrence > I've put up some pictures of the micom 2000: > > http://osi.webhop.net/ > > (follow the link from the main page) Be patient, > the server is on a low end ADSL connection. If > someone wants to copy these somewhere faster, > please do. > > I'm going to keep it, so I need to move another > system instead. I have a Commodore CBM 8032 with > an 8050 dual 5 1/4" drive. Good cosmetic condition, > unknown operational condition, no software, > documentation or fuse holders. I'll put up some > pictures tonight. It's a good bit lighter than the > micom, but I would still prefer a local pick up if > possible. > > Bill lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Nov 12 16:04:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 12, 2002 02:42:26 PM Message-ID: <200211122205.gACM5WX04367@shell1.aracnet.com> > Since I'm (mostly to very dumb) when it comes to these things - I would > like to ask for opinions/advice/recommendations from the List on what the > best way would be to attach one of the terminal ports on the machine to > the Net, to allow folks to telnet in and play with the system remotely. > > I was thinking phone-line -> modem-> Net-to-serial-box-> 11/44 port. > > There are 30 ports, all will run at least 9600, and I do have a > registered and hosted (though inactive) domain name... not that the two > would be related. > > This would of course be for during the periods that the system was on... > and I sure as Hell am *not* considering leaving 'er up 24/7... > electricity, noise, hAxOrZ (in that order) would deter that. Might be fun > to have a mirrored emulator tho... > > Anyway - those of you who are smart in this area: how owuld you do this? OK, here is how I'd try doing it. First, do you have a DSL Line? That would be best, since as I understand it Cable companies don't like such traffic on their lines. Then have a somewhere between a Sparc 2 to 20, and a couple Aurora 16-port serial cards. Cable the cards on the Aurora breakout boxes to the ports on the /44. For the Sparc you can run something like the following software packages: http://www.conserver.com/ http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~doug/console.html You'd probably want to write some kind of wrapper, and setup a generic account on the Sparc. Users log into the Sparc, it executes the wrapper automatically, which figures out which console port to use for their session. The hardest part of this would be getting users to disconnect correctly. You'd probably need to figure out a way to disconnect sessins that have been inactive for to long. As an alternative, you could try to find a console server that supports reverse telnet (is there such a beast, I know there are ones for reverse LAT). What OS are you planning on running on the /44? In the event that you're running RT-11, you can get a free TCP stack and just connect the system directly to your network. Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 12 16:07:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <200211122208.OAA11414@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "David Comley" > >>Hi >>I think you need to make this point clearer. When a >character >>is punched, the same character is miss printed on the >platen? >>This is how I read his original post. > >Even using the REPT key to workaround the codebar >issue, I wasn't able to connect the carriage problem >conclusively to either a rotational or a vertical >problem. I think at this point I'm going to take the >carriage off again and try a more thorough >dismantle/clean/oil. Once I resolve the codebar issue >it will be easier to diagnose the carriage problem >with a clean mechanism. > >>This tells me it is something sticking in the linkage >that goes >>between the code bars and the print head( or he has >it installed >>wrong but that doesn't explain why it starts working >with repeats ). >>I would remove the print assembly and put it in some >solvent >>while moving the levers. Then clean it off/dry it and >re-oil >>it. You most likely have some dry oil that is >sluggish. Getting >>oil into the right place will take a bit. >>In the service( military ), we used to clean things >in a bath >>of water and heavy detergent. This was done in an >ultrasonic >>cleaner. We'd then rinse and bake it at about 150F >for a few >>hours. Then Re-oil/grease, place on test bench and >fine adjust. >>I suspect that a good dish washing liquid would work. > >I remember using an arklone bath at a place I worked >years ago for cleaning circuit boards. Probably taken >a few years off my live expectancy breathing that >stuff in. > >> >>Basically, there are 3 possible problem areas : >> >>1) The keyboard contacts are not closing correctly, >so the parallel data >>output of the keyboard is incorrect. >> >>2) The distributor disk (rear right of the typing >unit) is not correctly >>serialising the data from the keyboard. Unlikely, but >possible. >> >>3) The selector unit (rear left of the typing unit) >is malfunctioning, >>and is not correclty responding the receiving magnet. >> > >I can see the armature 'stutter' when I punch the >rubout key - by stutter, I mean that its movement >looks slightly different between keypresses. So I'm >inclined to think that the magnet is just responding Hi You haven't made it clear about punching. Does it work correctly when you use the punch?? If it does, it can't be the keyboard, distributor or codebars. All of these must work to have the punch work correctly. The punch is mechanically connected to the code bars of the printer. >to what it is receiving which is incorrect. I cleaned >the distributor and reseated the brushes, readjusted >the brush holder to the alignment mark per the >adjustment procedure in the manual. So I'm back to >option 1) - the keyboard - as the source of the >problem. One thing I noticed last night was that the >keyboard cover is broken. There are four round tabs, >one at each corner, that fit into corresponding holes >on the end plates. These are broken, so the cover can >rock from side to side, pivoting on those center >projections. I wonder if that could cause some sort of >alignment problem within the keyboard ? I'd think it would have to shift quite a bit to fail. It would be more likely that the switch contacts( at the right side of the keyboard ) might be dirty. For the pegs, one can drill the plastic and use some dowel rod( wood or plastic ) from the hobby shop to replace the alignment pegs. Since this had a punch on it, it most likely has a lot of chad stuck on things that can gum things up. > >Thanks for the suggestions - I will get to it again >tonight and see what else I can find out. I hate the >idea of opening that keyboard up... As I stated earlier( in this group ), you can disconnect the power from the motor and run things slowly to see what is missing. You just have to manually lock up the clutches since it isn't spinning fast enough to lock them with inertia. Dwight > >Dave > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 12 16:12:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it Message-ID: <200211122212.OAA11437@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The holes are just for automatic handling. It is so the robots that place the die, bonds the wires, places the lid and test the part know where pin 1 is. Dwight >From: "Benedict Bridgewater" > >I'm curious if anyone can ID this chip on eBay: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070850586&rd=1 > >Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are?! > >Ben > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 12 16:56:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Putting PDP11/44 on the net...?" (Nov 12, 14:42) References: Message-ID: <10211122231.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 12, 14:42, John Lawson wrote: > > Since I'm (mostly to very dumb) when it comes to these things - I would > like to ask for opinions/advice/recommendations from the List on what the > best way would be to attach one of the terminal ports on the machine to > the Net, to allow folks to telnet in and play with the system remotely. > > I was thinking phone-line -> modem-> Net-to-serial-box-> 11/44 port. Do you have some sort of "always-on" connection from the your local network to the Internet? Or do you use dialup? The easiest way is to use a terminal server box: net -> terminal server -> 11/44 port A suitable terminal server might be smething like a Shivaport (recent hence moderately expensive), an old Emulex Performance 4000 or Performance 2000 (if you can find a cheap one that's not died), a Racal Interlan, a Xylogics Annex, or any of several other possible brands that you might pick up secondhand. Not Windows Terminal Services or the LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project), though -- they're for thin clients for Windows/Unix. DEC used to make a suitable box themselves. Although they're called "terminal servers", most -- including all the ones I've mentioned -- can be configured so you telnet in to them and make a serial connection out to one of the serial ports, which looks to the machine it's connected to as if a serial terminal has connected to it. On many of them, the serial port you connect to can be automatically chosen according to the port number you use in the telnet command (eg telnet tsrv01 3003 might be used to establish a connection to whatever's on serial port 3 of tsrv01). We use several of them to get remote access to the console serial lines of key switches and routers across campus, and I have a couple at home which allow my Unix machine to connect to the serial ports on various machines, including a couple of PDP-11s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From curt at atari-history.com Tue Nov 12 17:26:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? References: <10211122231.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003e01c28aa2$dd2a09d0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> There have been some good cheap Terminal Servers on Ebay lately, I bought a pair of Baynetworks 8port terminal servers for $59. Tons of Decservers on Ebay too. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Turnbull" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? > On Nov 12, 14:42, John Lawson wrote: > > > > Since I'm (mostly to very dumb) when it comes to these things - I would > > like to ask for opinions/advice/recommendations from the List on what the > > best way would be to attach one of the terminal ports on the machine to > > the Net, to allow folks to telnet in and play with the system remotely. > > > > I was thinking phone-line -> modem-> Net-to-serial-box-> 11/44 port. > > Do you have some sort of "always-on" connection from the your local network > to the Internet? Or do you use dialup? > > The easiest way is to use a terminal server box: > > net -> terminal server -> 11/44 port > > A suitable terminal server might be smething like a Shivaport (recent hence > moderately expensive), an old Emulex Performance 4000 or Performance 2000 > (if you can find a cheap one that's not died), a Racal Interlan, a Xylogics > Annex, or any of several other possible brands that you might pick up > secondhand. Not Windows Terminal Services or the LTSP (Linux Terminal > Server Project), though -- they're for thin clients for Windows/Unix. > > DEC used to make a suitable box themselves. > > Although they're called "terminal servers", most -- including all the ones > I've mentioned -- can be configured so you telnet in to them and make a > serial connection out to one of the serial ports, which looks to the > machine it's connected to as if a serial terminal has connected to it. On > many of them, the serial port you connect to can be automatically chosen > according to the port number you use in the telnet command (eg telnet > tsrv01 3003 might be used to establish a connection to whatever's on serial > port 3 of tsrv01). > > We use several of them to get remote access to the console serial lines of > key switches and routers across campus, and I have a couple at home which > allow my Unix machine to connect to the serial ports on various machines, > including a couple of PDP-11s. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 12 17:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:51 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems In-Reply-To: <200211120257.SAA10938@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Nov 11, 2 06:57:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021112/f3762f61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 12 17:54:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs In-Reply-To: from "David HM Spector" at Nov 11, 2 10:57:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021112/edb71f1d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 12 18:00:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 12, 2 04:27:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 820 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021112/5422def8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 12 18:11:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 12, 2 10:21:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021112/e9cd87bf/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 12 18:14:01 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it In-Reply-To: <200211121848.gACImJH15432@misrad.basit.com> Message-ID: <20021113001535.FEIZ3342.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Does anyone know what the purpose/function of the holes in it are?! > > Ben Those one round and slot holes is for manufacturing process, simply drops onto bed with two precision-machined pins to keep things in alignment. This is especially necessary because chip bonding and wire bonding, lid placing and soldering process is mostly mechanical. Later on when processing becomes powerful enough for optical alignment on the fly, that holes disappeared. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 12 18:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems In-Reply-To: <20021112175212.66233.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> from "David Comley" at Nov 12, 2 09:52:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2581 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021112/17cdb84e/attachment.ksh From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Nov 12 21:06:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: More micom pictures... Message-ID: Due to popular demand, I've added close ups of the keyboard and each of the circuit boards. The board pics are linked from the main picture page. They came out a little fuzzy (can't read the chip numbers). I'll try again tomorrow. http://osi.webhop.net Follow the links. I think I'll start dragging out my OSIs and taking pictures of them next. Bill From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Nov 12 21:18:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: micom 2000 pictures, etc. In-Reply-To: <3DD11A39.3979.4BF2733@localhost> Message-ID: > I'll get it functioning again and likely, if the KB permits, simply making a > duplicate of the 2 OS disks would be the easiest way to get it to you. I would really appreciate that. There is nothing on any of the boards that looks like an EPROM and there is an empty socket on the RAM/ROM board, so this beast may not currently be able to boot. I may need a ROM dump from you. > I'll also scan the docs and eventually the other material I have, like the > Philips newsletters, communications and advertising. That would be great. > The cables shouldn't be a problem to replace in an urban center. I have the stuff to make ribbon cables. It just weirds me out that they put the connectors on the bottom of the cases. > I might ask a favor of getting some ribbon cable in return later on. Can do. > It would be good to get a closer shot of the KB. It's up now. > Do you know how close the backplane is to the S-100 configuration ? Physically, not even close. But, judging from the way the modules are broken out and the fact that it uses an 8080 I would imagine that there are similar signals on the bus. I may try to sit and puzzle out what is on the bus tonight, but I've had a long day and probably won't get too far. You don't have schematics in any of your docs? Bill From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 12 23:04:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Garage Sale updates In-Reply-To: <20021112120935.P85628-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3DD189E3.14357.6736756@localhost> Great page Jim, and nice insights. Altho my retirement move wasn't as large as yours ( just 1 17' U-haul and an 8' trailer with limited amount of furniture), it rings a bell. 2500mi. bus ride to Toronto, immediate 24hr load-up with my son, and leaving after loading Saturday, 2500 mi. saga back here with a misloaded truck that would periodically go into a shimmy and visions of turning over, straight thru with occasional naps in the truck to save on motel costs, unloading myself with a 2 wheeler on Tuesday, returning the truck and trailer on Wednesday, and hopping on the bus for a 2500 mi. trip back to Toronto in order to retrieve my car. Then another 2500mi. back here straight thru. My son said it took him a week to recover just from loading. I avoid thinking about how nutso I am and wonder how I survived. I told him us older people have more stamina. What-tha-hell I'm not going to stop living on the edge just because I'm at retirement age. What is it about bowling alleys and new starts. A friend of mine returned to Canada after spending a good part of his life in a NGO aid project in Africa with his 2 children who were born there, and bought a bowling alley in Ottawa. His sons had never seen snow before and were more used to veldts than urban NA culture and became quite exotic personas to their schoolmates. At the time I met him, some 20 years ago they were struggling and hoping that bowling alleys wouldn't go the way of drive-in movies. Oregon to Kansas must be almost as much a relocation. Hang in, the gods do smile on us madmen, altho not easily, and not always in the way we expect. Lawrence To paraphrase another sig: Live life as if you were never going to die. Love as tho you've never been hurt, Sing and dance as tho no one is listening or watching. > Greetings; > > After spending the last few (nearly 4) weeks sorting out the carnage from > a Windoze induced system disaster... I'm getting back to being not > significantly more behind than I was before the whole thing blew up in my > face... > > Of course in the interim, I missed VCF 5 (snarkle, ramfle, mutter) and who > knows what else... > > Most people who have claimed items from the Computer Garage 'Garage Sale' > should have received them by now, thought the most recent three or four > are still awaiting transport to the post. (my bad) > > And... still trying to remain above water, there are some new updates on > the 'Garage Sale' page. > > http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Gsale > > And, since some of you have asked... There is also a link from the sale > page to a 'State of the Garage' page, which attempts to detail the current > state of affairs in my world. > > Note that I am still writing on this, so consider it to be in flux for the > time being. > > Regards; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 12 23:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: <004501c28a8a$5fb65520$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > +AD4- I'm tempted to just haul off and order a new > +AD4- power supply - I'm pretty sure I can board-swap > +AD4- that without killing anything. AAGGGGGHHHHH!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 12 23:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: <10211122231.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Peter Turnbull wrote: > Although they're called "terminal servers", most -- including all the ones > I've mentioned -- can be configured so you telnet in to them and make a > serial connection out to one of the serial ports, which looks to the > machine it's connected to as if a serial terminal has connected to it. On This can also be done with a Linux box (a homebrew terminal server). Multi-port serial cards can be found for very reasonable prices. I'm sure there's a package that someone's already written to do this too. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 12 23:39:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > This can also be done with a Linux box (a homebrew terminal server). > Multi-port serial cards can be found for very reasonable prices. Maybe if I pick up a cheap old laptop, Pent I or 486 even, Linux and a PCMCIA serial port box... hmmm... I stress that this would only run sproadically, and from a dial-up line that I get 48K out of most days... so I don't see any reason for more than two or three users at once. > > I'm sure there's a package that someone's already written to do this too. The trick is to locate same, and make it work... Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 13 01:19:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > Maybe if I pick up a cheap old laptop, Pent I or 486 even, Linux and a > PCMCIA serial port box... hmmm... I just stepped over a PCMCIA serial port new in the box at the ACCRC today. > I stress that this would only run sproadically, and from a dial-up line > that I get 48K out of most days... so I don't see any reason for more > than two or three users at once. A dial-up would be way retro-cool. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 13 02:09:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: micom 2000 pictures, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3DD11A39.3979.4BF2733@localhost> Message-ID: <3DD1B496.25973.71A38C4@localhost> Ok I just opened it up. Of course it's nothing like a S-100 board. I must have been thinking of the Wang PC I abandoned. It has 6 50pin sockets on the backplane. I have 4 cards, 1 is labelled 64k Rom and there is an empty socket on the upper left-hand side,which may be the one you noticed. An interface card for the Shugart FDD. I labelled "Printer and CPU" Another one which seems to be the video interface with an EPROM and several other impressive-looking gold-labelled chips which appear at quick sight, given my failing eyesight as L-P shotskys. Blast !! I unplugged most things and some of the connections only used one side of the Aynsley connectors, so I'm going to have to figure out how they were connected. The up side is that possibly some were RS232 type IOs. There's obviously more connections than is warranted for what peripherals I have. > > I'll get it functioning again and likely, if the KB permits, simply making a > > duplicate of the 2 OS disks would be the easiest way to get it to you. > > I would really appreciate that. There is nothing on any of the boards that > looks like an EPROM and there is an empty socket on the RAM/ROM board, so this > beast may not currently be able to boot. I may need a ROM dump from you. > Should that occur I'll need a lot of coaching from you, since I neither have nor am likely to find up here an EPROM burner or reader for that manner. I've now taken it out of the cold room. my 2nd story enclosed porch, and moved it into the guest BR where I have an old adjustable height hospital serving table that I use as a movable workbench. The undertop drawers are good to put parts and screws in and I can adjust the height according to how I am working. A nerd would find the present wall line-up impressive, with the Micom and Shugart drive on one end and a DEC Pro with a VR 201 I was working on in the middle, a Rainbow with VR 241 on the end, and the bed filled with old Apple parts and Grid FDDs. Ahh, life in the (geek)fast-lane. > I'll also scan the docs and eventually the other material I have, like the > > Philips newsletters, communications and advertising. > > That would be great. > > > The cables shouldn't be a problem to replace in an urban center. > > I have the stuff to make ribbon cables. It just weirds me out that they put the > connectors on the bottom of the cases. > I noticed that :^) When I got mine I wasn't aware of the uniqueness of that engineering decision and cursed it much like I cursed the positioning of the AtariST mouse ports, but overall it was extremely well designed. I like the little clips that hold the cards in place on the backplane, and the easy access to the innards. > > I might ask a favor of getting some ribbon cable in return later on. > > Can do. > > > It would be good to get a closer shot of the KB. > > It's up now. > > > Do you know how close the backplane is to the S-100 configuration ? > > Physically, not even close. But, judging from the way the modules are > broken out and the fact that it uses an 8080 I would imagine that there > are similar signals on the bus. I may try to sit and puzzle out what > is on the bus tonight, but I've had a long day and probably won't get > too far. You don't have schematics in any of your docs? > No unfortunately. But each keypress and capabilities are well described, as well as the outputs to the Qume printer. Later models used a TEK printer as well. Because the printer was quite speedy(faster than the Spint I believe or any other print quality daisy-wheel printer as opposed to dot matrix) but most used a noise suppressor cover. I had timed it at one point and found it finished a page in about half the time of a dot-matrix and with a much higher print quality. I produced a brochure at one point from it when I was the advertising sales manager for a community paper that was quite satisfactory. Should you have the time, I would appreciate it if you would open the KB and describe to me what you see as the functioning of the keypresses and how it differs from most common ones. I'm sure Mr. Duell could analyze it's functioning and get me past any possible problems if my fault isn't the cable, and the values that should be there as well as the testing. On mine the determinant keyblocks (2 of them IIRC) inside were red as opposed to the ordinary black or white ones. I imagine these were multi- plexers. I don't know how the signal matrix might have worked. Hopefully my problem is just a cable one. IIRC I couldn't print, or access some of the graphic(simple line or subscript) abilities. My son wrote a bunch of poems on it when he was a (very talented as all our children are I'm sure) teen and I would like to retrieve them. My machine had belonged to a lawyer and also had a generic will form(fill in the blanks) and I had thought years ago of doing what has now become a big business. Unfortunately the keyboard fault prevented me from printing altho I could still view them. Lawrence > Bill lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Nov 13 02:14:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...?" (Nov 12, 21:29) References: Message-ID: <10211130815.ZM669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 12, 21:29, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Peter Turnbull wrote: > > > Although they're called "terminal servers", most -- including all the ones > > I've mentioned -- can be configured so you telnet in to them and make a > > serial connection out to one of the serial ports, which looks to the > > machine it's connected to as if a serial terminal has connected to it. On > > This can also be done with a Linux box (a homebrew terminal server). > Multi-port serial cards can be found for very reasonable prices. > > I'm sure there's a package that someone's already written to do this too. There's something called Linux Terminal Server Poject (LTSP) but it's a different sort of thing. It's to support thin client network machines, not serial lines. You could certainly do the job with a Linux machine, even for a dialup into the Linux machine to connect the caller to another serial port, but it would require some programming. Terminal server hardware designed to do the job would be easier and quicker to set up, and probably cheaper to run. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Nov 13 03:05:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034285@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >* Is there a service manual on-line for this machine? Any suggestions on >where to get one? I want things like connector pinouts (to see if there's a >power-fail line, or some such, and what it's expected to be), expected PS >voltages, things like that. There is a service manual (two IIRC - one for the VLC and one for the VLC and 4000-60 combined). The PSU is an H7109-00. >3) now, left power-on, the 8 LED's are on most of the time. Occasionally, All LEDs on is listed as "Power applied but no instruction run". If it always did this then the CPU system would be suspect (which is not really terribly good ...). However, given the symptoms described, I'd agree with the other posters who suspect a PSU issue. Antonio From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 13 04:48:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: FW: Huge lot of DEC parts on E-pay In-Reply-To: <001501c28a88$6e72d540$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <001501c28a88$6e72d540$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <182399990365.20021113044857@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, John Allain wrote: > Re: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068638523 > > The bulk of the parts by count may be the 90-06xxx'es, > there could be 10,000 of them, and, they're screws > and washers. That's what I was afraid of. An outer shell of boards and front panels to interest us, and an inner core of nuts and bolts to rip us off. I have to retract my pledge ($100 down, up to 15% later). I've just found out about a VAX 6000 almost in my own backyard, and I'm going to try very hard to get that. I have a 220V outlet in my living room for *some* reason[0]. It must be destiny! Finally there is some big iron that I don't have to drive 1024 hours to get to. [0] I suspect it was once used for a window air conditioner. -- Jeffrey Sharp From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 13 04:51:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: More micom pictures... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DD1DA55.17879.7ADB176@localhost> Ok. I think you have everything for a functioning box. Hard to see the exact chips but it looks right. For those interested, it had more functions than any other machines from that timeframe or much later I've seen. The 5 rows x 4 columns on the function pad buttons were : File Recall Open Update Repeat ^ (cursor) Nextpage Print < (cursor) Home(cursor) >(cursor) Stop/Cont Scrol (down cursor) Delete Insert Command___(double Key) Cancel Mode Does this seem familiar ? And this was in production before the Apple 1 was even out of the garage. Does anyone know of any computer that did subscript and superscript printing in 1975 as Micom did with their hookup with Qume. I don't think even QMS who invented Postscript did that. Founded in March 1975 and by March 76 had sold 180 Micom 2000s worth $2 million just as Wozniak and Jobs finished work on the Apple circuit board. This was from Poullsons Timeline and other sources quoting Knights of the New Technology - The Inside Story of Canada's Computer Elite, by David Thomas, 1983. 1972 Intel introduces its 200-KHz 8008 chip, the first 8-bit microprocessor. Atari is founded and ships Pong, the first commercial video game. Canada's Automatic Electronic Systems introduces the world's first programmable word processor. Bill Gates and Paul Allen form the Traf-O-Data company. 5.25 inch diskettes first appear. March 75 Stephen Dorsey, founder of Automatic Electronic Systems, sells his 25% of the company for $135,000. Stephen Dorsey and Louis Miller found Micom Data Systems, in Canada. It's ludicrous that this machine hasn't been given it's due by the computer community. It came out the same year as the Altair (with 256 bytes of memory) and Imsai, and was likely more advanced than either of them. Even the later Apple 2 only had a maximum of 48k and as evidenced, the Micom had 64K. Most like the TRS80 and Pet only had 4k. It also had 6 slots for add-ons. The later Apple II had 8, over Jobs objections, he only wanted 2. Dorsey had been producing business machines since 72. Possibly because it was marketed as a Word Processor while it was clearly an advanced computer for it's time, and because it was aimed at the word processing business community before the spread sheets, which it clearly could have handled as evidenced by it's later math programs . It was also capable of Sync and A-sync communication. The otherwise brilliant Stephen Dorsey missed on the potential of general computing, as well as games. Who can blame him in retrospect. He went where the money was. With more vision, he could have been a Gates or Jobs, and our present computer history would have been different. ( I know, a little like saying if the dog hadn't turned when the train ran over his tail, he wouldn't have lost his head over a piece of tail) But had he hooked up with the Lanpar ( ? 2 guys from Northern Telecom) people there would have been no Lotus as any perusal of the suit shows that Lotus won the patent court case only on technicalities, and as everyone admits Supercalc was the making of Apple. True, it was expensive, but much less than the Minis. A truly remarkable machine and I'm sure much more information will emerge with more historical research. After Dorsey sold his final shares to Philips in 83 he went on to found a communication company, Voice and Data Systems "the leader in real-time packetized technology( Terra FaxPad)". Last I traced him he was on the northern left coast. Don't know if he is still alive. There's more to collecting computers than just accepting the common verities. Lawrence > Due to popular demand, I've added close ups of the > keyboard and each of the circuit boards. The board > pics are linked from the main picture page. They > came out a little fuzzy (can't read the chip numbers). > I'll try again tomorrow. > > http://osi.webhop.net > > Follow the links. I think I'll start dragging out > my OSIs and taking pictures of them next. > > Bill > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 13 08:54:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? Message-ID: Well, I don't have any manuals, or even or a terminal, or for that matter, the side of the case... But I do have a TI 1500.. If you get software and manuals, I could use copies please... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 13 09:05:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it Message-ID: I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : ( Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Nov 13 09:34:00 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: <10211130815.ZM669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10211130815.ZM669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021113153544.GB2524297@uiuc.edu> Peter Turnbull said: > > There's something called Linux Terminal Server Poject (LTSP) but it's a > different sort of thing. It's to support thin client network machines, not > serial lines. You could certainly do the job with a Linux machine, even > for a dialup into the Linux machine to connect the caller to another serial > port, but it would require some programming. Terminal server hardware Eh, you'd just need to write a shell script to see which ports are in use and then call something like "minicom" with the right arguments to use the next free port. Should be pretty easy. > designed to do the job would be easier and quicker to set up, and probably > cheaper to run. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From patrick at evocative.com Wed Nov 13 11:18:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Although they're called "terminal servers", most -- including > all the ones > > I've mentioned -- can be configured so you telnet in to them and make a > > serial connection out to one of the serial ports, which looks to the > > machine it's connected to as if a serial terminal has connected > to it. On > > This can also be done with a Linux box (a homebrew terminal server). > Multi-port serial cards can be found for very reasonable prices. > > I'm sure there's a package that someone's already written to do this too. There's 3Com CS/3100 (48-port serial to/from ethernet) on ePay that currently has no bids. If it's worth the $25 trade-off (vs multiport serial cards, Linux shell scripts, etc.) to whoever originated this topic (and no, it's not my auction). Free docs on the 3Com web site. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Nov 13 11:20:00 2002 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > There's 3Com CS/3100 (48-port serial to/from ethernet) on ePay Sorry, forgot the link to that CS/3100... --Patrick http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068769787 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Nov 13 11:34:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Terminal Servers [was: Putting PDP11/44 on the net] References: <10211122231.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003e01c28aa2$dd2a09d0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3DD28BBD.8A8E0A88@comcast.net> Speaking of terminal servers, I picked up a pair of Datability Vista VCP-1000 terminal servers when my (old) work were going to just toss them out. Anybody have any experience with these? Between the two, I have 64 RJ12/RS-423 ports, and 8 DB25/RS-232 ports (on one). What's interesting is the ethernet modules on them (E-NIC/10T), aside from having the usual RJ45/BNC/AUI connectors, also have what looks like a single PCMCIA slot. Which, of course, is not shown in any of the docs I have. Any ideas? Oh, I also grabbed the 2 User Manuals, and a Comm Server Reference guide (with my ex-employers notes when they had them set up!) -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Nov 13 12:07:00 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Terminal Servers [was: Putting PDP11/44 on the net] In-Reply-To: <3DD28BBD.8A8E0A88@comcast.net> References: <102111222 31.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><003e01c28aa2$dd2a09d0$0b00a8c0 @cvendel> <3DD28BBD.8A8E0A88@comcast.net> Message-ID: <62046.62.148.198.97.1037210916.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> David Woyciesjes said: > Speaking of terminal servers, I picked up a pair of Datability Vista > VCP-1000 terminal servers when my (old) work were going to just toss > them out. Anybody have any experience with these? Got one, not sure if I like it. The front-panel is pretty nice, but I don't have any docs so getting forward with it was a bit "challenging". I haven't tested any LAT-functionality but I got terminal->server->telnet working pretty quickly. I'm currently running a DecServer 200 that mop-boots from NetBSD and gives me reverse lat for my closet-friendly computers. I know that my VCP-1000 didn't require any external firmware downloads and that front-panel certainly is cool :-) People have very strong emotions about them, judging from groups.google.com. -- jht From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Nov 13 12:25:01 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Terminal Servers [was: Putting PDP11/44 on the net] In-Reply-To: David Woyciesjes's message of "Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:28:29 -0500" References: <10211122231.ZM29721@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003e01c28aa2$dd2a09d0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <3DD28BBD.8A8E0A88@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200211131824.gADIO2Ws012501@daemonweed.reanimators.org> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Speaking of terminal servers, I picked up a pair of Datability Vista > VCP-1000 terminal servers when my (old) work were going to just toss > them out. Anybody have any experience with these? Where I used to work, I took to calling ours the "Disability". It earned the name. LAT: pretty good TCP/IP: would sometimes lose its configuration SLIP/PPP: usable, if you're willing to give all your users the "enable" password (we weren't) At least that was my experience with one of them around 1992-1993. Rumor was that there was a later firmware revision that addressed some of the TCP/IP and PPP problems but it never made its way into our units. The unit that was used primarily to hook a bunch of terminals to a smaller bunch of VMS hosts with LAT just worked, the one that we expected to do TCP/IP stuff was a real pain. -Frank McConnell From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Nov 13 13:33:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DD2A936.70500@dragonsweb.org> Will Jennings wrote: > Well, I don't have any manuals, or even or a terminal, or for that > matter, the side of the case... But I do have a TI 1500.. If you get > software and manuals, I could use copies please... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > I have an S1505 here. No manuals, and the only software I have is what's on the SCSI disk. I've been able to log in from a linux box on the console port with no problem. The S1500s have a hardware key (the SPA) that plugs into the main board. I don't know if the menu program is keyed to it or not. TI System V is now maintained by CSI Software. They still sell it and some of their own apps for the S1500, as do, I believe, a few other places like Trident Computer and Lake Erie Systems. If this is something Sellam has a budget for, he could probably get a lot of assistance there. I don't know if he's had any luck yet, but I forwarded his post several days ago to a party in South Carolina who used to be on the list, who has a 3-processor S1500 he was wanting to find a good home for, if he hasn't changed his mind. I think he may have some manuals. He has some tapes, but no matching SPA, so only what is already installed on disk is usable unless you have some way to generate a key. See c.s.ti. for his post, back about the end of last month. It should still be on most spools. If not, google. I know of one other party who has (some) manuals, but I'll let him speak for himself if he chooses, as he does more than enough for classiccmper's as it is for me to pester him on anyone else's behalf. :-) jbdigriz From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Nov 13 13:40:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Terminal Servers [was: Putting PDP11/44 on the net] References: <"102111222 31.ZM29721"@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003e01c28aa2$dd2a09d0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <3DD28BBD.8A8E0A88@comcast.net> <62046.62.148.198.97.1037210916.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <3DD2A939.2E477F18@comcast.net> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > David Woyciesjes said: > > > Speaking of terminal servers, I picked up a pair of Datability Vista > > VCP-1000 terminal servers when my (old) work were going to just toss > > them out. Anybody have any experience with these? > > Got one, not sure if I like it. The front-panel is pretty nice, but I don't > have any docs so getting forward with it was a bit "challenging". I haven't > tested any LAT-functionality but I got terminal->server->telnet working > pretty quickly. I'm currently running a DecServer 200 that mop-boots > from NetBSD and gives me reverse lat for my closet-friendly computers. > > I know that my VCP-1000 didn't require any external firmware downloads and > that front-panel certainly is cool :-) > > People have very strong emotions about them, judging from groups.google.com. Well, judging by this, and Frank McConnell's message. I'll make sure to grab the newest firmware I can. I don't plan on doing any major work with these, just gonna hook them to my VaxStation 3100/m38, DEC3000/400, Sparc Ultra1, 2 Cabletron Hubs, etc... really only just because I can. It will be nice, though, to manage everything from one terminal. Now if I could only talk the wife into letting me put a VT420 in the bedroom or den, so I don't have to go downstairs to the computer room just to check my mail & news... Jarkko (or anyone else) - if you want me to look up something specific on configuring your VCP-1000, e-mail me direct, and I can check my User Manual and Config Guide for you -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Nov 13 14:59:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: John Allain wrote: >Get the PSU part number and I'll look it up, >or check: > http://pages.prodigy.net/ppsjm/PART+ACU-20NUMBER.htm Prodigy says that URL is not found. However http://pages.prodigy.net/ppsjm/PART%20NUMBER.htm works....Oh. I get it. AAARRRGGHHHH! ;-) But no H7109 listed. And Antonio supplied: > The PSU is an H7109-00. Google for H7109-00 turns up nothing. Google for H7109 turns up two dealers (the cheapest in Irving, TX(!), at http://www.jtcomputer.com) which list an H7109-C as a "VAXSTATION 4000 VLC POWER SUPP". This is the same thing, yes? Anybody have experience with, or opinions on, that dealer? There are also multiple other H7109 (-A, -B) listed, which look not to be what I'm after. --- Tony Duell wrote: >Most DEC machines have at least one power-OK line from the PSU. I want to figure out which that one is. >OK, how many pins is the connector between the PSU and the mainboard? Will count, but order of 9. >You've identified +5 and +12 (and ground) -- presumably on the disk power >connector. Exactly. It was an informed guess - Orange insulation for +12, and red for +5, and Black for Ground. >Can you find those on the mainboard connector? There were similar colors on wires from the mainboard PS connector to the Power supply. I actually measured the voltages on the Power-supply side of that connection, not on the mainboard or the disk-drive connector. I checked that the resistances between what I thought were the corresponding pins on the mainboard PS connector and the mainboard disk-drive connector were 0 (with everything unplugged), just to be sure. Probably I should double-check voltages on the disk-drive connector, to rule out connector problems at the mainboard-PS connector. >What's left? >Probably at least one -ve voltage. And maybe a power-OK line. Oh, I also found -12V (found by accident - needle swung the wrong way) and it was about -11.5 V (I think). That was a blue wire. Forgot to report that. There were about 5 wires I did not check. I'll look at them tonight; if I'm lucky, the power-OK indicator, if present, will switch from one state to the other while I'm watching it. Hopefully it'll stay in each state long enough that I can see the needle move. >One of the few components that gets better when warm is a faulty >electrolytic capacitor. I have not figured out correlation between temperature and working status. Yesterday morning it worked for a long time when booted up from cold, then failed. Cycling power did not make it work better. >It's a pity you don't have a 'scope (to look for >ripple on the PSU lines) or an ESR meter (to check all the electrolytics >on the secondary side of the PSU). I've been thinking that, but unlike my wife's hobby (sewing) my hobby does not turn a profit (or rather, displace household expenditures). Though I might claim some credit if I ever get around to fixing that $%^&* Stylewriter.... Anyway the o-scope and ESR meter budget is zero at the moment. Sigh. >This does sound like power trouble. If not, then maybe gently warming >(hair dryer) and cooling (freezer spray) the components on the mainboard >will identify any that have gone thermally intermitant. Ooo, neat idea. The hair dryer I have. Don't have freezer spray, but maybe I can use a bike tire or something. Is there any reason (other than the possibility of slowly fatal electrocution) not to try the same trick on the power supply? I'd have to run it opened up and avoid touching the heat-sinks, etc, but I don't recall any reason it shouldn't run that way. - Mark From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Nov 13 15:12:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards > has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : ( I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer for those people who could actually put them to use. And then secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what might be otherwise working systems or subsystems. There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of them to see things our way is progress. Evangelizing on the behalf of classic computing is something we all should be doing. I tend to do a lot of that when it comes to my VAXen. And where permitted, I always have a classic computer or two on the network at my workplace. The NeXT that's beside my new iMac at work always raises eyebrows and generates a lot of questions. Other things that help are contributing to the various computer museums (money, unique equipment, your time, etc.) Providing information to people on this list is useful. The documentation scanning projects are wonderful resources. The publicity generated by things like the VCF is good; Sellam getting visibity in Wired and on Tech TV raises awareness in a broader audience than could be otherwise achieved. And I think books like _Collectible Microcomputers_ and Christian Wurster's _Computers: An Illustrated History_ are useful to have lying around as coffee table material. -brian. From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 13 15:54:01 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: name that DEC control panel! References: Message-ID: <003801c28b5f$4d1e98c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> anyone know what machine this panel comes from? The seller claims it's a PDP-11 but I don't see enough bits. Possibly a PDP-8 or educational unit? I've never seen the lights along the side - on an '11.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 regards, Heinz From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 13 16:01:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: SDI drives on epay 24$ for 2x 1gig References: Message-ID: <003c01c28b60$55efdee0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> some nice dives for someone with an SDI controller such as a uda50/kda50... was someone looking for some a while ago? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071009677 regards Heinz From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Nov 13 16:12:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: name that DEC control panel! In-Reply-To: <003801c28b5f$4d1e98c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021113161341.01b62160@ubanproductions.com> At 04:54 PM 11/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: >anyone know what machine this panel comes from? >The seller claims it's a PDP-11 but I don't see enough bits. >Possibly a PDP-8 or educational unit? I've never seen the >lights along the side - on an '11.. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 >regards, >Heinz Here is one of the many responses when I asked a similar question. --tom >X-Sender: healyzh@mail.aracnet.com >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:17:41 -0800 >To: info-pdp11@village.org >From: "Zane H. Healy" >Subject: DEC Microprocessor Series (was: What is this?) >Sender: owner-info-pdp11@village.org > > >Would someone please tell me what this is and what it was used for? From the > >picture, it seems to be more 8 bit oriented than 16 bit. > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 > > >From the 1974 "MPS Microprocessor Series User's Handbook": > >"1.1 Introduction >Digital Equipment Corporation's Microprocessor Series (MPS) consists of a >group of four M series modules and an optional operators control panel, >designed to efficiently perform a range of process control and >decision-making functions that were previously uneconomic subjects for >automation. When used together, these modules can from low-cost digital >control systems that exhibit the characteristics normally attributed to >more costly minicomputer-based systems. With this capability, systems >structured from MPS modules can perform the functions of dedicated >controllers, operate as a Central Processor Unit (CPU) in intellegent >terminals, perform data aquisition and analysis tasks in the laboratory, >and automate a host of industrial processes > >1.2 >General Description >The Microprocessor Series is listed below by model number and name: > > * M7341 Processor Module > > * M7344-YA 1K Read/Write Memory Module > * M7344-YB 2K Read/Write Memory Module > * M7344-YC 4K Read/Write Memory Module > > * M7345 Programmable Read-Only Memory Module > * M7346 External Event Detection Module > * KC341 Monitor/Control Panel > >In a systems context, the M7341 Processor Module (PM) acts as the central >processor unit with the remaining modules performing supporting functions. >Activity in a given system, then, is directed by a unique stored program >contained in a read/write and/or a programmable read-only memory and >executed by the PM. A major factor in the structuring of an MPS system for >a specific application is the development of this unique system program by >the user. To support user development of application software, Digital >provides the Microprocessor Series Software Tools (MPSST) package that >includes the following routines: > > * Microprocessor Langauge Editor (MLE) > > * Microprocessor Langauge Assembler (MLA) > > * Microprocessor Read-Only Memory Programmer (MRP) > > * Microprocessor Host Loader (MHL) > > * Microprocessor Debugging Program (MDP) > > * Master Tape Duplicator (MTD) > >In addition, the Microprocessor Program Loader (MPL) is available to users >of the optional KC341 Monitor Control Panel." > > >In looking further at the handbook it appears that the MPSST package is run >on a PDP-8/e, /f or /m and is papertape based. The MRP expects a MR873 >PROM writer to be used in conjunction with the PDP-8. > >Looks like an interesting device, to bad the one on ebay is just the front >panel. > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >---------- >To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to >info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message >body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 13 16:15:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: name that DEC control panel! In-Reply-To: from "Heinz Wolter" at Nov 13, 2002 04:54:54 PM Message-ID: <200211132217.gADMH2O01385@shell1.aracnet.com> > anyone know what machine this panel comes from? > The seller claims it's a PDP-11 but I don't see enough bits. > Possibly a PDP-8 or educational unit? I've never seen the > lights along the side - on an '11.. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 Here is what I posted a couple days ago to info-pdp11. BTW, someone else commented that the actual CPU on the M7341 is a i8008. Zane "1.1 Introduction Digital Equipment Corporation's Microprocessor Series (MPS) consists of a group of four M series modules and an optional operators control panel, designed to efficiently perform a range of process control and decision-making functions that were previously uneconomic subjects for automation. When used together, these modules can from low-cost digital control systems that exhibit the characteristics normally attributed to more costly minicomputer-based systems. With this capability, systems structured from MPS modules can perform the functions of dedicated controllers, operate as a Central Processor Unit (CPU) in intellegent terminals, perform data aquisition and analysis tasks in the laboratory, and automate a host of industrial processes 1.2 General Description The Microprocessor Series is listed below by model number and name: * M7341 Processor Module * M7344-YA 1K Read/Write Memory Module * M7344-YB 2K Read/Write Memory Module * M7344-YC 4K Read/Write Memory Module * M7345 Programmable Read-Only Memory Module * M7346 External Event Detection Module * KC341 Monitor/Control Panel In a systems context, the M7341 Processor Module (PM) acts as the central processor unit with the remaining modules performing supporting functions. Activity in a given system, then, is directed by a unique stored program contained in a read/write and/or a programmable read-only memory and executed by the PM. A major factor in the structuring of an MPS system for a specific application is the development of this unique system program by the user. To support user development of application software, Digital provides the Microprocessor Series Software Tools (MPSST) package that includes the following routines: * Microprocessor Langauge Editor (MLE) * Microprocessor Langauge Assembler (MLA) * Microprocessor Read-Only Memory Programmer (MRP) * Microprocessor Host Loader (MHL) * Microprocessor Debugging Program (MDP) * Master Tape Duplicator (MTD) In addition, the Microprocessor Program Loader (MPL) is available to users of the optional KC341 Monitor Control Panel." In looking further at the handbook it appears that the MPSST package is run on a PDP-8/e, /f or /m and is papertape based. The MRP expects a MR873 PROM writer to be used in conjunction with the PDP-8. Looks like an interesting device, to bad the one on ebay is just the front panel. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Nov 13 16:42:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034287@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Google for H7109 turns up two dealers (the cheapest in Irving, TX(!), at >http://www.jtcomputer.com) which list an H7109-C as a "VAXSTATION 4000 VLC POWER SUPP". This is the >same thing, yes? Anybody have experience with, or opinions on, that dealer? There are also multiple >other H7109 (-A, -B) listed, which look not to be what I'm after. I opened up my VLC and it has an H7109-C PSU in it. Some googling suggests that an H7109-A is for a VT1000 and an H7109-B is for a VXT2000. They may well be similar in size from what I remember of the respective enclosures. I'd power up and check a few voltages but my multimeter is in the office ($70K logic analyser, $20K scope, no multimeter - at least not with leads I can find!. Tsk) Isn't $50 a bit steep for a PSU? Can't you either borrow a known good one or at the very least pick up a VLC from ebay for less than $50? Last time I opened up one of these PSUs (admittedly a VS4000-90 one) it didn't look that hairy (OK - all I had to do was dig out enough dust and cruft to let it spin its fans and come up ...). If you knew that a replacement PSU fixed the problem, you'd know that you had a tractable problem and where to concentrate. Equally if a new PSU did not help even with only the mainboard connected, you'd know that you were likely to be in for a *much* harder time. Antonio From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 13 16:49:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: name that DEC control panel! References: <200211132217.gADMH2O01385@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <006101c28b67$04ee1780$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> > > anyone know what machine this panel comes from? > > The seller claims it's a PDP-11 but I don't see enough bits. > > Possibly a PDP-8 or educational unit? I've never seen the > > lights along the side - on an '11.. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 > > Here is what I posted a couple days ago to info-pdp11. BTW, someone else > commented that the actual CPU on the M7341 is a i8008. > > Zane > Curious that DEC used an Intel 8008 in the 11/34&a front panel as well and 8085s in Decwriters, several terminals(Gigi), DECtape2 controllers, PDP10KS10 frontends etc. These were likely ceaper than using F11's.. I'm thinking that even the 500kHz maybe the 8008 in the front panel was faster than the M7341;) Also found this from Tim Shoppa in a google search: >>Can anyone tell me what a >> >> KC341-B >> Microprocessor series Monitor/Control panel >> >>is? (Other than the obvious). > >It's the bench-top console for the M7341 microprocessor. The >KC341-A was the rack-mount console. > >>It is a DEC item -- it appears to have the standard switches >>for a computer front panel, but for a 14-bit wide machine... >>I found two of them in my archives, still packed in their >>boxes. >>One would presume, then, that you've got a couple M7341's in your >>archives, too :-). Thanks Zane & Tom - that was a fast response! Heinz From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Nov 13 17:13:01 2002 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: PSU components for a VAX 11/750 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB6EB@deathstar.arielnet.com> Wanted: Any or all of the following: -875 Power Controller -H7104-C 2.5VDC PSU -H7104-D 5VDC PSU From david_comley at yahoo.com Wed Nov 13 17:54:00 2002 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <20021113235529.51852.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com> >Hi > You haven't made it clear about punching. Does it work >correctly when you use the punch?? If it does, it can't >be the keyboard, distributor or codebars. All of these must >work to have the punch work correctly. The punch is >mechanically connected to the code bars of the printer. When I punch single characters to tape, they punch incorrectly. When I hold REPT and punch to tape, the correct character is punched. I had the keyboard apart last night. Cleaned the contact wires and the common terminals. Tonight I am planning to reset the contact wire clearances as the manual comments on contact bounce being an issue. Regards, Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 13 18:40:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <200211140041.QAA12180@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "David Comley" > >>Hi >> You haven't made it clear about punching. Does it >work >>correctly when you use the punch?? If it does, it >can't >>be the keyboard, distributor or codebars. All of >these must >>work to have the punch work correctly. The punch is >>mechanically connected to the code bars of the >printer. > >When I punch single characters to tape, they punch >incorrectly. When I hold REPT and punch to tape, the >correct character is punched. Hi Ok, this is entirely different. I would have to agree that it is more likely in the keyboard. Nothing much else would cause this problem. Most all of the other moving parts would respond close to the same for the repeat key ( still might be something that is sticky though ). Besides checking the clearence, it might be a good idea to remove the keyboard and watch things while hitting a key. You might see something a little sluggish. You'll need to manually reset it after each keystroke. It is a lot easier to see things when the machine isn't jumping everytime you hit a key. Dwight > >I had the keyboard apart last night. Cleaned the >contact wires and the common terminals. Tonight I am >planning to reset the contact wire clearances as the >manual comments on contact bounce being an issue. > >Regards, > >Dave > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 13 18:46:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Got a Apple Cube at Auction and Other items Message-ID: <017601c28b77$66373b60$ad000240@oemcomputer> Yesterday I picked up a Apple Cube, Pro KB, the two clear plastic speakers, power brick, and VGA extension cable from a guy outside of the auction. Had I got there 20 minutes earlier I could of had all the above and a 17" monitor all for $60. Now if I could just locate a cool looking clear plastic G4 tower and a Apple flat panel for under a $100. :-) Also got a IBM PC XT model 286 (5162) needs to be cleaned up a bit before a test run can be made. Got a strange looking device by Imsi called a PC Stylus. And a Apple High Resolution RGB monitor. From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Nov 13 19:10:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021114011100.82859.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Mark: FWIW, I'm 90% sure I've dealt with JT Computer before and they were good people to deal with. But it's been maybe 6 years or more. -- Frank --- Mark Tapley wrote: > John Allain wrote: ...snip... > And Antonio supplied: > > > The PSU is an H7109-00. > > Google for H7109-00 turns up nothing. > Google for H7109 turns up two dealers (the cheapest > in Irving, TX(!), at > http://www.jtcomputer.com) which list an H7109-C as > a "VAXSTATION 4000 VLC > POWER SUPP". This is the same thing, yes? Anybody > have experience with, or > opinions on, that dealer? > There are also multiple other H7109 (-A, -B) listed, > which look not to be > what I'm after. > ...snip... ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 13 20:08:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? References: Message-ID: <01cc01c28b82$d698e970$ad000240@oemcomputer> Sellam check out this site: http://lemonodor.com/archives/000242.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:39 PM Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? > > Does anyone here have a TI Explorer or TI 1500? I'm especially after the > original manuals and software that came with it, specifically a program > called "LMENU" (something like that). > > If anyone has it and wants to make a little dough please come forward. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 13 20:29:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: name that DEC control panel! In-Reply-To: <003801c28b5f$4d1e98c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: <003801c28b5f$4d1e98c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <27456445273.20021113203020@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > anyone know what machine this panel comes from? The seller claims it's a > PDP-11 but I don't see enough bits. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070195230 I saw this over on info-pdp11: > Right you are. This was DEC's first foray into microprocessors. The > CPU was an Intel 8008, which is why you see the lights grouped by 6 and 8. > The 8008 only had a 14-bit address bus. > > I _think_ that it's just the control panel. I never had one but I do > remember them being sold around 1975 or so. I might even have a > brochure on it, but it would be rather deeply buried in the archives. -- Jeffrey Sharp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 13 20:37:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 13, 2 02:37:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3148 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021113/4e6f240c/attachment.ksh From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Nov 14 07:21:01 2002 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? Message-ID: <200211141322.IAA24574@drs-esg.com> For my online PDP-8 I have it attached to a serial port on my web server/gateway machine (which also meets the 10 year rule, a Swan 486 upgraded to 133 MHz runing Linux). I have a program I wrote which is run from inetd when somebody telnets to the port. It sets up the serial port and knows enough telnet protocol to tell the other end to go into unbuffered mode. ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/serial_telnet/ It logs the serial traffic to /tmp and errors to syslog. The errors are harmless cmd and option ignored messages for parts of the protocol it ignores. It also uses a lock file in /var/lock to prevent multiple connections. I also have the PDP-8 power controllers on the PC parallel port with a custom board so I can power up the machine when someone want to use it. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Nov 14 07:34:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:52 2005 Subject: TI Explorer or 1500 software/docs? In-Reply-To: References: <01cc01c28b82$d698e970$ad000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3DD3A6AE.8000105@dragonsweb.org> Keys wrote: >Sellam check out this site: http://lemonodor.com/archives/000242.html > > > Thanks for posting this. Somewhere in Austin there is supposed to be an Explorer with my name on it. I need to check up on that. jbdigriz From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Nov 14 08:42:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: > The PSU is an H7109-00. Mine says Model Number: H7109-C on it. >>Most DEC machines have at least one power-OK line from the PSU. > >I want to figure out which that one is. I think there is no such line. On the mainboard connector to the PSU, there are Red (3), Black (4), Orange (1), and Blue (1) wires. Red are all connected together, and all go to appx. 5 V when the system is on. Black are all connected together and to ground and are always at 0 V. Orange is one wire, and goes to appx. 12 V when the system is on. Blue is one wire, and goes to appx. 12 V. when the system is on. The red and black cross-connections are true on the mainboard and on the PSU. They are not all adjacent on the connector, which makes not much sense to me, but that's how it is. Red and Black on the mainboard connect to the corresponding colors on the Disk power connector. As for voltage: I really need a good DVM. Calibrated the 12V setting at work against a good 4-digit fluke DVM, so I think my reading of 12.1V for orange and -12.0 for blue is close. Did not have time to check at 5V, but afterward measured 3 Ray-o-Vac Renewal D cells in series at 4.7 V, so I may not be way far off. If so, my reading of 5.3 to 5.4 for the Red group is worrisome. This reading is consistent even at the Disk power connector. Anyone else have a good VOM, a working VLC, and 3 Renewal cells? Or just the VOM and either of the other two? >I have not figured out correlation between temperature and working status. I know more about it, now. Turned it on cold, it ran for a while, then failed, then started to try to boot again. Blew the hair dryer on it, it went into hard fail almost immediately and did not try to boot. Blew a fan on it, it went OK and actually ran far enough to give me a login prompt. In both cases I was trying to aim at the part of the mainboard near the power connector, but the system is so small I was probably affecting most of the mainboard and possibly a lot of the PSU as well. Near the power connector are two power-looking components (as in they have big leads, and in one case a heat-sink attach point, whereas nearly everything else is microscopic surface-mount stuff). One is a power-transistor looking thing with a heat-sink attach point (but no heat-sink) that has 3 pins and says LT1086CT 9151 The right leg is connected to 5.3 V (Red-wires). The center leg stays around 3.4 V, system running or failed. The left leg stays around 2.15 V, running or hung (as far as I can tell). The other is an 8-pin DIP that says M9124 LM393N QST Are these two part of a crowbar circuit, or reset circuit, or some such? Should I be able to see some clue about why the system hangs by looking at their pins? - Mark From allain at panix.com Thu Nov 14 08:58:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: SDI drives on epay 24$ for 2x 1gig References: <003c01c28b60$55efdee0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <004501c28bee$73487180$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > some nice dives for someone with an SDI controller such as a > uda50/kda50... was someone looking for some a while ago? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071009677 I think it was Sridhar Still there, 4 days left, $12/ea. I have bought from these people and will vouch: No problems. John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Nov 14 09:46:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > > > Most DEC machines have at least one power-OK line from the PSU. > > > > I want to figure out which that one is. > > I think there is no such line. On the mainboard connector to the PSU, > there are Red (3), Black (4), Orange (1), and Blue (1) wires. > > Red are all connected together, and all go to appx. 5 V when the system > is on. Black are all connected together and to ground and are always at > 0 V. Orange is one wire, and goes to appx. 12 V when the system is on. > Blue is one wire, and goes to appx. 12 V. when the system is on. Black is nearly always ground, red is commonly used for +5V. This wouldn't be the first supply I've heard of that didn't have a PG connection. > The red and black cross-connections are true on the mainboard and on the > PSU. They are not all adjacent on the connector, which makes not much > sense to me, but that's how it is. Red and Black on the mainboard > connect to the corresponding colors on the Disk power connector. It may have made it easier for the engineers who were laying out the power busses on the mainboard. > As for voltage: I really need a good DVM. Calibrated the 12V setting at > work against a good 4-digit fluke DVM, so I think my reading of 12.1V > for orange and -12.0 for blue is close. Did not have time to check at > 5V, but afterward measured 3 Ray-o-Vac Renewal D cells in series at 4.7 > V, so I may not be way far off. If so, my reading of 5.3 to 5.4 for the > Red group is worrisome. This reading is consistent even at the Disk > power connector. Anyone else have a good VOM, a working VLC, and 3 > Renewal cells? Or just the VOM and either of the other two? It sounds like your DMM is close enough. Since I'm not familiar with these supplies, I can't say if 5.3-5.4 is too far beyond the norm, but I usually don't get too worried unless it reaches ~5.5 and beyond for +5V. > I know more about it, now. Turned it on cold, it ran for a while, then > failed, then started to try to boot again. Blew the hair dryer on it, it > went into hard fail almost immediately and did not try to boot. Blew a > fan on it, it went OK and actually ran far enough to give me a login > prompt. In both cases I was trying to aim at the part of the mainboard > near the power connector, but the system is so small I was probably > affecting most of the mainboard and possibly a lot of the PSU as well. It certainly sounds like something is overheating. You might want to try using some cardboard to carefully direct the airflow from your hair dryer. Do these systems have an internal fan? I haven't been inside one enough to remember, but if they do, is the one in your system running properly? > Near the power connector are two power-looking components (as in they > have big leads, and in one case a heat-sink attach point, whereas nearly > everything else is microscopic surface-mount stuff). One is a > power-transistor looking thing with a heat-sink attach point (but no > heat-sink) that has 3 pins and says > > LT1086CT > 9151 Linear Technology 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator, TO-220 package. Datasheets for this part can be found here: http://www.linear.com/prod/datasheet.html?datasheet=233 > The right leg is connected to 5.3 V (Red-wires). > The center leg stays around 3.4 V, system running or failed. > The left leg stays around 2.15 V, running or hung (as far as I can tell). Pins from left to right: 1 ADJ (ground for fixed voltage regulators) 2 Vout (also connected to the mounting tab) 3 Vin It seems like the board uses the regulator to regulate +5V down to 3.3V. > The other is an 8-pin DIP that says > > M9124 > LM393N > QST Low Power Low Offset Voltage Dual Comparator Datasheets can be found here: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM393.html > Are these two part of a crowbar circuit, or reset circuit, or some such? > Should I be able to see some clue about why the system hangs by looking > at their pins? I expect to find a crowbar would be inside the PSU, and not on the mainboard. I don't think these components would be used for a crowbar anyway. It really does sound like your system has a thermal problem. I'd suggest some careful directing of the air from your hair dryer to help pinpoint the problem area. -Toth From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Nov 14 10:33:00 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Maybe OT: Re: Putting PDP11/44 on the net...? References: <200211141322.IAA24574@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <3DD3CEEE.FE327A5E@xs4all.nl> There's someone on ebay now who sells Nortel Annex 8 port terminal concentrators for $99, excl shipping. They are apparently new, and I know that they are at least over $1200 new. So, I bought one :=) Not affiliated, just passing on. For those who want to look : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071358643 Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From emu at ecubics.com Thu Nov 14 11:29:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? References: Message-ID: <3DD3DE7B.8030405@ecubics.com> Mark Tapley wrote: >>The PSU is an H7109-00. Are the fans working in the power supply ? From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 14 13:07:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly > because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer > for those people who could actually put them to use. And then > secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what > might be otherwise working systems or subsystems. I totally agree. Chip collectors are focused mainly on the one part they are after, and I can imagine a rare board that could bring a rare system back to life being stripped of a few ICs considered "gems" without consideration given to the whole. > There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems > are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It > /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or > resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of > them to see things our way is progress. I'm not going to outright condemn chip collectors as they are definitely preserving information and artifacts, but they need to be mindful of computer collectors and not leave a pile of debris in their wake in pursuit of their hobby. That being said, I agree that a piece of silicon sitting there doing nothing is nowhere near as interesting as the greater machine that it is helping to make work. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Nov 14 13:08:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Removing Mac IIci floppy to replace battery Message-ID: <007001c28c11$af1951c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Does anyone know the trick to get the Mac IIci floppy drive out to gain access to the battery? I've got the hard drive out, and I took out the (1) screw in the upper-left of the drive holder. Are there release clips to release the drive holder? If so, where? Thanks. - Bob From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Nov 14 13:32:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Removing Mac IIci floppy to replace battery In-Reply-To: <007001c28c11$af1951c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Does anyone know the trick to get the Mac IIci floppy drive out to gain > access to the battery? > > I've got the hard drive out, and I took out the (1) screw in the > upper-left of the drive holder. Are there release clips to release the > drive holder? If so, where? First you need to pull the PSU. A plastic clip by the left rear leg of the drive cage, looking at the front of the IIci. release that catch & pull the PSU straight up. There's also a screw into the m/b at the rear left of the drive cage, at the bottom of the support leg. Pull that. Then there's a clip at the right side if the box, by where the HDD was. Pull the entire cage straight toward the rear of the box. Doc From bdwheele at indiana.edu Thu Nov 14 13:48:00 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter Message-ID: <1037303575.28988.52.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> Sort of off topic, but sort of not. My department is planning to have a roast of the former director and because he was a big user of our former VAX systems, some people think that mounting a disk platter would be a nice touch. Anyone have have an extra RA81/RA82 disk platter for free/cheap? Brian Wheeler bdwheele@indiana.edu From david_comley at yahoo.com Thu Nov 14 13:54:00 2002 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <20021114195545.86141.qmail@web13505.mail.yahoo.com> I consolidated Tony's and Dwight's comments onto one post... thanks to both for your comments so far. >Ah... Do you hapeen to know if the original position of the brush holder >was way out? If so, then it's possible the previous owner tried to >compensate for that using the 'rangefinder' adjustment on the RX module >(the slider + scale near the receiving magnet). Have you treid the affect >of this adjustment? I tweaked this last night to see what would happen, but there was no improvement. But it was an interesting exercise anyway. >You can elminiate the keyboard by trying the reader. If the reader works >perdectly, then the keyboard must be the problem. My guess is that it >won't, though. You can open the tope of the rrrreader and hold the tape >sensor down by hand. That will read continual Rubouts. Or hold down some >the pins too to get different characters. Of course if you have some >correctly punched tape, use that. Good idea - I re-connected the reader and tried it. The codebars track exactly what the sense pins read, so that would point to a keyboard problem. >Hang on... What happens if you press a (printing) key -- say 'A' and >REPT. Do you get consistently correct punching? What is printed? Always >the same (incorrect) chaaracter? (if so, which, and where is it on the >cylinder). A few different characters (again, where are they on the >cylinder)? Considerable improvement after working over the carriage again. Many of the characters now print correctly using the REPT workaround. Some examples that don't: Prints Typed As ----- ------ Q S (consistently) 8 : (consistently) 9 ; (consistently) X P,Z E E occasionally C W W occasionally G A C Haven't had time to analyze these yet in terms of where they lie on the typewheel. >Besides checking the clearence, it might be a good idea >to remove the keyboard and watch things while hitting >a key. You might see something a little sluggish. >You'll need to manually reset it after each keystroke. >It is a lot easier to see things when the machine isn't >jumping everytime you hit a key. >Dwight I'll try this again. I am sure that this is keyboard related. List of other things to fix: dashpot - carriage always sticks at l/h side. reader doesn't advance tape - presumably it should. Regards, Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 14 16:45:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: <1037303575.28988.52.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2002, brian wheeler wrote: > Sort of off topic, but sort of not. > > My department is planning to have a roast of the former director and > because he was a big user of our former VAX systems, some people think > that mounting a disk platter would be a nice touch. > > Anyone have have an extra RA81/RA82 disk platter for free/cheap? What better way to roast him than to award him with an entire VAX? Heck, they are cheap enough, sometimes even free. That ought to get a few chuckles, especially if it's a 6000 or 8000 series with all the peripherals. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Nov 14 17:37:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: <20021114180001.34006.73554.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Antonio said: >I opened up my VLC and it has an H7109-C PSU in it. Ok, good. Matches mine, so at least I know where to get another one of those. >Can't you either borrow >a known good one or at the very least pick up a VLC >from ebay for less than $50? Possibly, exploring that. But I'm reluctant to board-swap until/unless I get reasonably strong evidence that it really is the PSU. Although in this case, the failure is obviously not enough to fry anything, so I'm not so likely to damage the known-good component by board-swapping. This PSU is pretty clean and doesn't show much evidence of damage. Though I'll bet a capacitor with bad ESR looks like a healthy capacitor. --- Thanks for the reference, Frank! JT Computer may well end up $50 richer. --- Tony said: >_Sometimes_ the voltages are marked on the PSU PCB (particularly if it's >a 3rd-party unit). But I guess you've looked there. I did not unscrew the PCB from its mounting plate so I could see the back side. But all the Red wires soldered down to little metal strain-relief collars standing side by side, with resistance between them = 0. Likewise for all the Black wires. Resistance Red/Black was about 5 Ohms, FWIW. >What you are >looking for is a +5V or ground signal that's _not_ directly connected to >the appropriate PSU output (check this with an ohmmeter with the machine off) I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. See my earlier post. >Buy a can of freezer spray. It's not _that_ expensive, and it'll do the >job properly. Plan A for the weekend involves a trip to the local elx. place. I'll try to get freezer spray and replacements for all of the electrolytics near the output wires on the PSU. Then I'll try to nerve myself for some soldering. I'll keep the freezer spray away from the PSU. ---- Toth said: >It certainly sounds like something is overheating. You might want to try >using some cardboard to carefully direct the airflow from your hair dryer. OK, will try it tonight. >Do these systems have an internal fan? I haven't been inside one enough to >remember, but if they do, is the one in your system running properly? Two, side-by-side, mounted in the PSU housing. They suck air out of the mainboard compartment into the PSU housing, and it then exhausts out the far side of the case. They are not far from the connector and the components I listed. Both of them turn when the switch goes on. (Thanks for the suggestion, Emanuel!) Both had a *little* dirt around them, but I cleaned that up (and both still turn). The SCSI cable partially obstructs their apertures - I'll try to alleviate that. >Linear Technology 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator, TO-220 package. That's it. ... (!) "100% Thermal Shutdown Functional Test." !?!?!? Maybe I'll give that part some stricter attention with the hair-dryer. Any chance that thermal-shutdown function could be getting too sensitive on me? Or that its thermal mounting has been messed up somehow? The mounting tab looks like it could go to a heat-sink, but there's no heat-sink attached. But there *is* a matching hole underneath in the mainboard! How do I know if it goes into thermal shutdown? >Low Power Low Offset Voltage Dual Comparator > >Datasheets can be found here: > http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM393.html Ok, what's it doing there? Anyway, I'm going to try to probe its outputs tonight and see whether they are in different states when the machine is locked up. As always, I'm indebted for all your help! More reports tomorrow. - Mark From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Nov 14 18:08:01 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: <1037303575.28988.52.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021114160731.00ac5ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 02:52 PM 11/14/02 -0500, you wrote: >some people think that mounting a disk platter would be a nice touch. Sounds like a wild party to me...... From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Nov 14 18:42:01 2002 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Apple Service Source Message-ID: <5673808@newdasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/56a0c157/attachment.bin From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 14 19:17:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems In-Reply-To: <200211140041.QAA12180@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Nov 13, 2 04:41:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1339 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/ee7e6ac3/attachment.ksh From spector at zeitgeist.com Thu Nov 14 19:43:00 2002 From: spector at zeitgeist.com (David HM Spector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Looking for RL02 prints and maint docs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88BA44AC-F83B-11D6-A737-000393853BFC@zeitgeist.com> I should explain... in looking back over my posting, I see my spelling and syntax were atrocious. In my defense, I had just spent 2 hours uncrating my new toys and was pooped. Of course, they are RL02 DRIVES. I'm a systems programmer and I *DO* recognize the difference! :-) :-) In any case, I found a super-special-added-bonus at the bottom of one of the large boxes of RSX-11 documentation: a complete print set for the drives! Originals no less. There's lots more.. I just haven't had a chance to go through it all. thanks to everyone who pointed me toward the online sources -- I have been perusing them as they're a little easier to tote around and read on the train. regards, David Spector On Tuesday, Nov 12, 2002, at 04:27 America/New_York, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, David HM Spector wrote: > >> I just took delivery of a PDP-11/23 with (amongst other things) 4 >> RL02 >> drivers on it . > > A small point: you will possibly cause confusion, semantically - what > you have are RL02 *drives*. The "drivers" are software modules > installed > in your Operating System to allow it to properly interface with the > Drives. > > >> >> I would like to make sure the drivers are cleaned and lubed before I >> attempt to power them up... does anyone have any points to a print-set >> and maintenance data for these drives? > > If not available on-line or from nearer sources, I have one spare > printset for the RL02 subsystem - the physical drive and the > single-card > Unibus adapter for it, and the cable. They are 11x14 size and hard to > get > copied easily. Let me know if you have trouble finding doc closer to > you. > These are quite common, BTW, should be fairly easy. (ha!!) ;} > > In the case of the /23, the adapter card is different, but the drive > is > the same. > > > Any experiences people have had >> bringing RL02s back to life would be greatly appreciated! > > Depending on the operating environment, you will most likely need to > find clean (or new) HEPA filters and install them. A thorough vacuuming > with a soft-brushed wand is in order as well. > > It is doubtful that the shipping lockscrews have been installed on > the > bottom of the drives, but slide them out and check. They are marked as > to > which two are the locks. The heads are retracted and locked > automagically > - IIRC there is a shipping lock for the head motor, but that is all I > can > recall specifically. > > Look on the right-hand side of the drive near the middle and close to > the chassis slide. There should be a small metal cover with a couple of > screws. take this off, and there is a lever hidden in there, pulling it > just the right way will release the lid-latch and allow you to remove > the > disk pack w/out powering up the drive. If it is the older style with > no > access cover, you can remove the screws in the rear top cover and > finesse > the lids off - or, you can power up the system with the load switches > 'OUT' and then remove the packs. Pushing 'IN' the load switches with > power > and clock reaching the drives will spin them up - not a good idea at > this > point. Then you can clean the drive compartment and most likely swab > the > heads with a soft q-tip and a 50/50 mixture of hydroflouric and fuming > nitric acids. > > No, wait, I meant isopropyl alcohol - sorry. 70% or 90% to avoid > getting > a lot of residual water left on the heads. Of course the usual > cautions > apply when cleaning large, old, delicate disk drive heads - be sure to > leave no lint, residue, debris, etc. > >> Also, any >> pointers/experiences re: potential cleaning issues of old RL02 packs >> themselves would be helpful too... >> > > Others may have more experience than I on actually cleaning the > packs, > but unless they have been stored in a swamp or out of thier covers for > long periods of time, and have not been physically abused (if DEC > packs, > they'll have 'shock-watch' indicators on them [at least all mine do] to > tell you if they've been dropped, they are probably OK. IIRC there are > machines that clean and verify the packs, but I've never seen one > except > in pictures. > > Hope this helps a bit - I'm quite jealous now as I'm actively looking > for another two RL02 drives for my 11/44... you lucky dog! > > > Cheers > > John > From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Nov 14 19:51:06 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Preservation of Historical Computer Systems Message-ID: <3095AA2B.3E078039.001A265C@aol.com> I found Digital Technical Journal Volume 8 Number 3 which contains the subject article title by Burnet and Supnik. If they are on this list and approve it, I will scan this in and make it available. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Nov 14 19:55:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Preservation of Historical Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <3095AA2B.3E078039.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: > I found Digital Technical Journal Volume 8 Number 3 which contains the > subject article title by Burnet and Supnik. If they are on this list and > approve it, I will scan this in and make it available. This is already online somewhere, for a couple of years at least. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From djenner at earthlink.net Thu Nov 14 19:58:05 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Preservation of Historical Computer Systems References: <3095AA2B.3E078039.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DD454E2.C219790D@earthlink.net> It's already available at Bob Supnik's site: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/docs/dtjn02pf.pdf Dave Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > > I found Digital Technical Journal Volume 8 Number 3 which contains the subject article title by Burnet and Supnik. If they are on this list and approve it, I will scan this in and make it available. -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 14 20:42:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 14, 2 08:43:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2885 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/bf1a593a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 14 20:42:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems In-Reply-To: <20021114195545.86141.qmail@web13505.mail.yahoo.com> from "David Comley" at Nov 14, 2 11:55:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1759 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/0aaeb7ee/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 14 20:53:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Preservation of Historical Computer Systems In-Reply-To: <3095AA2B.3E078039.001A265C@aol.com> from "Qstieee@aol.com" at Nov 14, 2002 08:51:30 PM Message-ID: <200211150255.gAF2t1704664@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I found Digital Technical Journal Volume 8 Number 3 which contains the > subject article title by Burnet and Supnik. If they are on this list and > approve it, I will scan this in and make it available. > No need, it can be found on Bob's SIMH website: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ Zne From rcini at optonline.net Thu Nov 14 22:05:00 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (rcini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: ANN: Altair32 Emulator version 2.40 released Message-ID: Hello, all: Tonight I posted the latest release of the Altair32 Emulator for Windows. There have been a few changes since the last release in August. Working closely with Scott LaBombard, we've added configurable memory ranges (split between RAM and ROM), a ROM Manager to allow the easy adding or removing of ROM binaries, and selectable console terminal using telnet or the Windows Console. Scott also generated new CP/M 2.2 disk images from the 2.2 source. He also re-wrote the CBIOS to fully enable 8 emulated disk drives, including up to 4 "large" (1.1mb) disks. Finally, in an effort to improve performance and reduce CPU utilization on the host computer, I made the conversion to a timeslicing model based on Jim Battle's Solace project. Enhancements on tap for the next release include a toolbar, a tabbed configuration dialog, and VT100 control code support within the Windows Console code. You can visit the project page at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm to download the latest ZIP file. Thanks and enjoy. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Nov 14 23:03:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021115050452.1565.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> I collect a few chips, but I'd rather have a whole working machine that I can demonstrate. You've got to admit, a set of chips I've got in a shadowbox on my wall - the 4004 to Pentium Pro - takes up a lot less space than the machines, generally! I puke when I see the word "rare" in the ePay ads. There are some unbeleivably idiotic gems on ebay right now (like the RARE!!!! 1977 8251 CPU!!!!!, for example). --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a > bit disturbing. Mainly > > because it means functioning, useful, components > are becoming scarcer > > for those people who could actually put them to > use. And then > > secondarily, it creates a market for the willful > destruction of what > > might be otherwise working systems or subsystems. > > I totally agree. Chip collectors are focused mainly > on the one part they > are after, and I can imagine a rare board that could > bring a rare system > back to life being stripped of a few ICs considered > "gems" without > consideration given to the whole. > > > There's difficulty in attempting to educate people > that working systems > > are more interesting, and valuable, than > disassembled bits of them. It > > /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not > everyone has the skills or > > resources to collect like most people here do, but > getting even a few of > > them to see things our way is progress. > > I'm not going to outright condemn chip collectors as > they are definitely > preserving information and artifacts, but they need > to be mindful of > computer collectors and not leave a pile of debris > in their wake in > pursuit of their hobby. > > That being said, I agree that a piece of silicon > sitting there doing > nothing is nowhere near as interesting as the > greater machine that it is > helping to make work. > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Nov 14 23:21:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Message-ID: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/19bbedab/attachment.html From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Thu Nov 14 23:33:00 2002 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Message-ID: I have had success in the past using a folded piece of paper (many times) to chock the broken simm. It may work, but it's a *really* messy solution Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lafleur [mailto:bob_lafleur@technologist.com] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/3c1f2ce0/attachment.html From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Nov 14 23:41:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009901c28c6a$2d358760$023ca8c0@blafleur> Well, it's worth a shot I guess, and if it works, it's better than nothing. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doug Jackson Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:38 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci I have had success in the past using a folded piece of paper (many times) to chock the broken simm. It may work, but it's a *really* messy solution Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lafleur [mailto:bob_lafleur@technologist.com] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/e1f13413/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Nov 14 23:45:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I > broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't > lock in. > > Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new > sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? I had that prob on a 486 motherboard, and discovered that the wiring "comb" that came with a set of spark plug wires was spaced perfectly. That, and a rubber band, held the SIMMs up tight for several months. Doc From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 14 23:46:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Check out the bid for the games that was not high enough Message-ID: <012b01c28c6a$80dd6450$14000240@oemcomputer> Talk about people with money to burn http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=139553608 0 From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Nov 14 23:47:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old > equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was > trying to be very careful. Yes! Plastic SIMM retainers are *always* a fubar waiting to pounce. It was a really stupid way to save money. Doc From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Nov 14 23:51:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci References: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <014201c28c6b$3f8ed5f0$14000240@oemcomputer> MessageIf you want to send me $2 plus the shipping cost I will mail you a replacement motherboard. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Lafleur To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021114/61a64c81/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Thu Nov 14 23:56:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I > broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't > lock in. > > Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new > sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? > > Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B > without having Bank A full... > > Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? > > Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old > equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was > trying to be very careful. > > - Bob > (not a happy MACer today) Bob, visit Junkyard Jeff's sight and you should find a replacement logic board for your machine for a very nominal price. Much easier to replace the whole board than any size SIMM socket. - don From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 15 00:09:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Check out the bid for the games that was not high enough In-Reply-To: <012b01c28c6a$80dd6450$14000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: on 11/14/02 11:47 PM, Keys at jrkeys@concentric.net wrote: > Talk about people with money to burn > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=139553608 > 0 Whoa! Who in their right mind would pay that much for video games? I guess it's people who spend their entire lives in front of their TV playing Disembowelment III or whatever is currently on the top 10 list. I'm not much of a video game person myself, but I do have fond memories of spending $20 in quarters on PacMan at a local place called "J.V.'s" as the day went by without me. -- Owen Robertson From ernestls at attbi.com Fri Nov 15 00:13:01 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Cromemcos at Re-PC In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021111163811.03bd26c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Geoff Reed > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:39 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Cromemcos at Re-PC > > > At 11:14 AM 11/11/02 -0800, you wrote: > >I sent an email inquiring after them and was told that they do not > >resell their vintage systems. They have a museum of sorts that I was > >invited to visit should I ever be in the area. > > > >Erik S. Klein > >www.vintage-computer.com > > IF it ended up in their museum, most of the time it either ends > up in as-is > or goes right in the dumpster (if they don't realize what it is)..... There are two REPC stores. The one downtown does have a small museum however most of their really interesting stuff, like those Cromemco's is sent to the other REPC out near SeaTac. The SeaTac store, however, does not have a display museum. They have been promising to set one up for years but they still hadn't as of a few months ago when I was out there. I think that they just pile the old stuff up in the back of their warehouse, where it just collectes dust. I am occasionally allowed into the back room of the Seattle store, to poke around at my leisure, and I have seen plastic wrapped pallets of great old computers that are being sent to the SeaTac store but I've never seen any of those old computers at the other store, on display or otherwise. I did ask about the Cromemco's at the Seattle store, and the guys who would be most likely to have seen them said they didn't know anything about them -in fact, they would have been excited if they HAD seen them and would have mentioned it to me. That's all that I was able to find out about it. E. From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Nov 15 00:58:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: All, More info: >Linear Technology 1.5A adjustable voltage regulator, TO-220 package. Has about the same voltages on its pins when the system is either running or failed: Vin 5.4V, Vout 3.5V, Adj(gnd) 2.1V Should that last be 0.0? I'm referring all of these measurements to Chassis ground, obtained by wedging a lead against the power supply housing. Measurements power-off with the Ohmmeter say that last pin is about 75 Ohms away from Chassis. Ironically, that's more than the readings for either Vin or Vout. >Low Power Low Offset Voltage Dual Comparator (LM193) This guy is intimately linked to the failure. V+ connected to 5.4 V (Red wires) Gnd connected to ground (Black wires = chassis ground.) Output A obeys the following rule: running fail out A 5.4V 0V One other interesting thing is that the first few times I touched "out A" with the probe, it failed immediately. I actually *did* get to see the needle swing a couple of times, as it tried to decide whether to run with the probe on that lead. Eventually it decided to run even with the probe on the output. The meter claims 20,000 ohms/Volt DC, so I did not expect to crash the system by probing it. I tried Out B, but it didn't change while I was watching and I didn't record what state it was in. Thermal dependence is still flaky, but it did go rapidly and persistently toes-up when I turned the hair-dryer + funnel combo on the LM193. I only got to do one trial, though, before it got to the point that it wouldn't run long enough to convince me the heat gun was doing the deed, so that could have been coincidence. I tried a few other parts of the circuit board, and got similar results out of a big chip near the SCSI connector. Dunno if that's relevant. - Mark From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 15 01:08:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries Message-ID: <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> This has come up before but I can't remember it being resolved. I often see suggestions for rejuvenating failed or dying laptop batteries using a hi-amp source to flash them and break down the built-up crystals. Most mention breaking the pack apart before doing this individually on each cell. Is this because each cell might have different resistances ? Most of my LT batteries no longer work anyway so it would be no big loss if it totalled them. Sending a dozen or so batteries into a rebuild place is a costeffective non-option and replacing the individual cells would still be costly. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 01:14:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help Message-ID: I downloaded E11 some years ago on a Pent I desktop but never got it to work, prolly due to no smarts on my part. This evening, thinking it might be fun to hook up my M4 Data SCSI 9trker to the laptop, and use it to work on Stuff to be transferred to the 11/44 later, I DL'ed the latest and greatest from his Site (V3.1), and installed it. I am running Win 2000 on an IBM A21m Thinkpad, with 256M of RAM and a 10GB HD. Right away, my little Pest Control program flags me that 'ntvdm.exe' has been detected, and as many times as I exterminate it, it returns as soon as e11.exe is run. Is this a bug, or something in E11 that looks like one? The details say it is a VBB virus tutorial... if it *is* a virus, or virus-related creepy-crawly, then there are much bigger problems afoot and I'll scrub the whole thing. At the E11> prompt in the DOS window, I type: E11> set cpu 44 E11> mount du0: rsx11m ERROR opening file - RSX11M.DSK E11> mount du1: ra80 ERROR opening file - RA80.DSK And so on... each iteration brings up the virus warning, and the disk emulations seem to be AWOL. So: any ideas? Obvious Stupidities? etc? Cheers John From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 15 02:11:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Preservation of Historical Computer Systems References: <3095AA2B.3E078039.001A265C@aol.com> Message-ID: <3DD4AC54.9070603@aconit.org> Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > I found Digital Technical Journal Volume 8 Number 3 which contains the subject article title by Burnet and Supnik. If they are on this list and approve it, I will scan this in and make it available. This is already available on Bob's site at http://simh.trailing-edge.com near the bottom of the page.... -- hbp From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 02:30:01 2002 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Dean Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Check out the bid for the games that was not high enough References: Message-ID: <006501c28c81$697ffae0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> > Whoa! Who in their right mind would pay that much for video games? I guess > it's people who spend their entire lives in front of their TV playing > Disembowelment III or whatever is currently on the top 10 list. I'm not much > of a video game person myself, but I do have fond memories of spending $20 > in quarters on PacMan at a local place called "J.V.'s" as the day went by > without me. Hey nothing wrong with video game collecting (or modern video games either). Its alot like the other (normal) side of classic computers but with more joysticks and strange attachments (Don't ask about the Sony Trance Vibrator for Rez). We seem to spend a massive amount of time cleaning contacts (old cartridges are already oxidizing) and it involves the same kind of care and attention that 'real' computers but with a game at the end (tracking down cables, disk drives etc). One of the good/bad things is that just having a system is only the start, for the popular systems number of titles may range in the thousands (there are believed to be around 14000 games for the ZX Spectrum). I haven't managed to test most of the titles I own yet (5 minute per tape, 1 minute per disk) and I only have a small collection (1000+ titles). Of course testing time also involves playing the games which can take a long time for quality titles.... (Things like Mario, Zelda and Elite can take weeks to really test :-) Bye, Deano From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 02:59:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator terminal config problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, rcini wrote: > Hello, all: > > Tonight I posted the latest release of the Altair32 Emulator for Windows. And tonight, The Gods of Emulation frown mercilessly upon me. I have sucessfully downloaded and set up your very beautiful emulator. All works well until we get to the Terminal. I am running Win2K on an IBM A21m Thinkpad, 256K/10G. I tried to configure HyperTerminal (which I despise and hate more each time I use it) - as per your manual - 'unable to connect to localhost port 23'. or 33. or 0. or any other... ;( The Emulator console is set for 'telnet' BTW. Then, I fired up VanDayke CRT, which I use for everything, and configured it the same... I get a 'host refused the connection' message. If I change the config, I get 'host not found' instead. ;( So... what PORT does the Altair work on? I couldn't find that after RTFMing most of the evening.... Thanks for any assistance... Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 03:41:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Found Altair problem: Message-ID: Turned the damn firewall off. Should the CP/M disks just have one file each? Like PIP.COM on the CPM22 disk... This had no effect on Ersatz-11... it still is unhappy with me for some unfathomable reason... Cheerz John From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 15 03:59:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I downloaded E11 some years ago on a Pent I desktop but never got it to >work, prolly due to no smarts on my part. SIMH = Bob Supnik http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ E11 = John Wilson http://www.dbit.com > This evening, thinking it might be fun to hook up my M4 Data SCSI 9trker >to the laptop, and use it to work on Stuff to be transferred to the >11/44 later, I DL'ed the latest and greatest from his Site (V3.1), and >installed it. I am running Win 2000 on an IBM A21m Thinkpad, with 256M of >RAM and a 10GB HD. I'm not sure E11 will work under Win2k, especially if it's an older version, I've heard that it won't. > Right away, my little Pest Control program flags me that 'ntvdm.exe' has >been detected, and as many times as I exterminate it, it returns as soon >as e11.exe is run. > > Is this a bug, or something in E11 that looks like one? The details say >it is a VBB virus tutorial... if it *is* a virus, or virus-related >creepy-crawly, then there are much bigger problems afoot and I'll scrub >the whole thing. This doesn't sound right, I'd recommend getting a copy of the latest release. It sounds to me as if you might have gotten an infected copy of E11 from somewhere. > At the E11> prompt in the DOS window, I type: > >E11> set cpu 44 >E11> mount du0: rsx11m > ERROR opening file - RSX11M.DSK >E11> mount du1: ra80 > ERROR opening file - RA80.DSK This looks right, but it isn't working for you. Like I said, try a new version. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From n4fs at monmouth.com Fri Nov 15 07:32:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:53 2005 Subject: Check out the bid for the games that was not high enough References: <012b01c28c6a$80dd6450$14000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002101c28cab$3805ddc0$086dbd18@n4fs> And the reserve was never met. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Nov 15 08:08:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries References: <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> Message-ID: <3DD50D3D.231B8CF6@ccp.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > This has come up before but I can't remember it being resolved. > I often see suggestions for rejuvenating failed or dying laptop batteries using > a hi-amp source to flash them and break down the built-up crystals. What really happens is that minute 'hairs' grow from terminal to terminal in the cell, effectively shorting it out. To remove them requires a flash of current to 'burn' them out. Either a high current source (10A or more) or a large capacitor discharged into the cell does the job. > Most mention breaking the pack apart before doing this individually on each > cell. Is this because each cell might have different resistances ? No, each cell has to be individually zapped if shorted. If the cell isn't shorted, you don't zap it. > Most of my LT batteries no longer work anyway so it would be no big loss if it totalled > them. Sending a dozen or so batteries into a rebuild place is a costeffective > non-option and replacing the individual cells would still be costly. My experience has shown me that doing this only extends life for a very short time, maybe a few months at best, when the symptoms return. By then the battery pack has pretty much run its lifespan. If your nicad pack has standard AA/C/D cells, rebuilding is a way around it, but most packs now have odd-sized cells, so the cost skyrockets there. If it were my laptop, I'd just spend the money for a new battery. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Nov 15 08:18:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Message-ID: If you still have the broken pieces, you can probably glue them back on with a solvent-weld plastic cement such as Tenax 7R. Then treat the mended sockets with extra care, as they will never be as stong as they were originally. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lafleur [mailto:bob_lafleur@technologist.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 15 08:24:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3DD50D3D.231B8CF6@ccp.com> References: <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:05 AM 11/15/02 -0600, Gary wrote: >Lawrence Walker wrote: >> >> This has come up before but I can't remember it being resolved. >> I often see suggestions for rejuvenating failed or dying laptop batteries using >> a hi-amp source to flash them and break down the built-up crystals. > >What really happens is that minute 'hairs' grow from terminal to >terminal in the cell, effectively shorting it out. To remove them >requires a flash of current to 'burn' them out. Either a high current >source (10A or more) or a large capacitor discharged into the cell does >the job. I have used an automobile battery to "zap" them. Shorting a NiCad to an auto battery for just a split second usually burns out the whiskers. HOEVER the fix usually doesn't last long. One of things that happens when the whiskers grow and short the electrodes is that they also pucture the membrane that separates the electrodes. Once that happens, the battery doesn't last long. ALSO zapping NiCads can can over-pressure and rupture the vent and possible spray out electrolyte (potassium hydroxide solution) if get them too hot. Not only is this an immediate hazard but it can also cause slow leaks that go unnoticed until the electrolyte eats up the circuits in the device that the batteries are installed in. I'm not saying not to zap your batteries. Zapping them is a great way to get them working again FOR A SHORT TERM. That will at least let you test the device to see if it works before investing money in new batteries. However just be aware of the dangers of zapping and DON'T leave the batteries in the device after you're done testing it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 15 08:30:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Litton systems? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021115093536.58ff8e58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone here familar with Litton Systems Guidance and Control Systems Division in Northridge California? I have a CP-2088 Navigation Computer that was built there and I'm trying to figure out what it goes into. Joe From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Nov 15 09:19:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: <20021115141801.41829.17965.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: All, Just catching up on the digest. I think next time I beg for advice I'll take digest mode *off* first. The delay is frustrating. Tony was way ahead of me last night, but I didn't get the benefit of his advice until this morning. Tony D. said: >I will bet that >Red = +5V >Black = Gnd >Orange = +12V >Blue = -12V... You'd win, as far as I can tell with my meter, with the minor variations I've noted. >> Blue is one wire, and goes to appx. 12 V. when the system is on. > >I would think the last one is actually -12V ? Correct, typo on my part. >More intersting would be to >use a 'scope to look for noise (particularly spikes at the PSU switching >frequency). Such spikes can make a supply rail look to be too high on >some meters. Yeah. Sigh. What's a likely frequency for the PSU switching? Is my (primitive analog) VOM likely to yield any useful info if I set it to the "AC Voltage" ranges? >> M9124 >> LM393N >> QST > >Aha. A dual voltage comparator. This could be used to check if power is >OK, and to generate the reset signal as appropriate. I don't know the causality yet (failure causes comparator to switch, or comparator switching causes failure), but the comparator (at least output A) does switch when the failure appears. Output A is Pin 1 as you recalled and Output B Pin 7, thanks to Toth for the link to the data sheet. Now *I'll* bet - Tony wants to know what the comparator *inputs* are connected to. Tonight's work is cut out for me. But in any case, I'm still guessing the power supply is a likely culprit. It looks like the comparator is properly protecting the mainboard from an overvoltage on +5V or +3.3V. I don't know what's going on with +3.3 being referred to something other than ground. In either case, a lower +5V supply (= appropriate repair to the PSU) would solve the problem. Is replacing all of the PSU output electrolytic capacitors just on suspicion a good move? That's what I plan for the weekend. (Lucky for me capacitors are not entitled to due process.. :-) ) - Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 15 09:28:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: [OT] digest vs. mail filtering (was Re: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help?) In-Reply-To: References: <20021115141801.41829.17965.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <33120.64.169.63.74.1037374147.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Just catching up on the digest. I think next time I beg for advice I'll > take digest mode *off* first. The delay is frustrating. Tony was way > ahead of me last night, but I didn't get the benefit of his advice until > this morning. I've always found it more useful to subscribe to mailing lists in non-digest mode, but to use email filtering software to put each mailing list into its own separate mailbox, or to use separate email addresses for subscriptions to each list. On Linux (and Unix), procmail is commonly used for filtering, and is quite flexible. Most GUI mail clients also have filtering capabilities, although some are fairly limited. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Nov 15 09:56:12 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127178@MAIL10> John: The way the telnet server within the Altair32 works is that it's activated upon the "first" access of a CPU I/O port by a running program. So, for example, if you are running a program that doesn't interact with any of the console I/O ports (0/1, 20/21 octal), the telnet server will not be activated and any telnet client will bomb out, complaining that no server is found. So, the sequence I use is to run HyperTerm and "disconnect" from the telnet port (UDP port 23 by the way -- the standard telnet port). Then, I run the emulator, attach disks and "boot" CP/M. I run ZoneAlarm, so I get a notification that a telnet server is starting (with a TCP address of 127.0.0.1), so I allow the access then "connect" HyperTerm. If you don't run ZoneAlarm, you just have to guess the timing when connecting. When booting CP/M, it's no more than a few seconds. If you look at the front panel address LEDs, you can "see" that it drops into an idle loop (the address LEDs appear to only reference a tight range of addresses). This is the signal that the CBIOS is waiting for a "live" connection. If you prefer, you can use the built-in Windows Console. That doesn't have the same connection problems as telnet. With telnet, however, you should be able to reach your Altair across a subnet (although I've never tried it). The disks are full with stuff, and there certainly should be more than 2-3 files. The CP/M 2.2 disk probably has 25 files on it. Rich From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 10:39:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I downloaded E11 some years ago on a Pent I desktop but never got it to > >work, prolly due to no smarts on my part. > > SIMH = Bob Supnik http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > E11 = John Wilson http://www.dbit.com Oh, Gawd... 1:30 am + Senior Moment... soory all. Wilson. sigh. > I'm not sure E11 will work under Win2k, especially if it's an older > version, I've heard that it won't. sigh sigh damn... I'll wait for further confirmation on this... Thanks Billy G! > > This doesn't sound right, I'd recommend getting a copy of the latest > release. It sounds to me as if you might have gotten an infected copy of > E11 from somewhere. I downloaded what was listed as the latest rev... right from Dbit. P'raps I should try the Other One... anyone here using it on W2K? Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 10:54:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127178@MAIL10> Message-ID: Thank you Richard... the sequence of launching, and the correct response to Zonalarm, was required. All seems to be well using HyperTerm, which I nonetheless hate/loathe. I will try to gently massage (or viciously bludgeon) CRT into playing nicely with your emulator, failing that I'll DL TerraTerm. Any chance of doing an "IMSAI Skinned" build so us dumb hardware types can just download it... I'm going to try and re-compile for the IMSAI panel, but I'm usually pre-doomed when it comes to such endeavors... ;} Thanks again... certainly an wonderful example of what this List is for... John From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 15 11:12:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > Thank you Richard... the sequence of launching, and the correct response > to Zonalarm, was required. All seems to be well using HyperTerm, which I > nonetheless hate/loathe. > > I will try to gently massage (or viciously bludgeon) CRT into playing > nicely with your emulator, failing that I'll DL TerraTerm. I highly recommend PuTTY as a Win32 terminal client. It rules. The URL is incomprehensible, but if you Google "PuTTY", the second hit is the download page. Doc From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 15 11:29:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > > Thank you Richard... the sequence of launching, and the correct response > > to Zonalarm, was required. All seems to be well using HyperTerm, which I > > nonetheless hate/loathe. > > > > I will try to gently massage (or viciously bludgeon) CRT into playing > > nicely with your emulator, failing that I'll DL TerraTerm. > > I highly recommend PuTTY as a Win32 terminal client. It rules. The > URL is incomprehensible, but if you Google "PuTTY", the second hit is > the download page. I'll second that... when I'm forced to use Winderz, PuTTY is indispensible. If you want even faster access, google for "PuTTY download", and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky". :) Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 15 11:52:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help References: Message-ID: <3DD534B6.5000100@aconit.org> John Lawson wrote: > P'raps I should try the Other One... anyone here using it on W2K? I can confirm that SIMH (the other one ;-) works under whine 2K. I use the PDP9/15 no the /11 but that is just an issue of instruction sets ;-) -- hbp From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Nov 15 12:21:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Big computer "scrap" cleanup in Washington, DC Message-ID: I just found this by accident: ============================================================ Junk Collection on Monument Grounds Updated: Friday, Nov. 15, 2002 - 8:02 AM EDT. (Washington) -- Got an old computer that's taking up space? How about a TV that's seen better times? Friday and Saturday, you can bring your old electronics to the grounds of the Washington Monument to be safely discarded. The event is a joint effort by the White House, the District, and the EPA. Environmental experts say some old electronics contain lead or other materials that can potentially harm the environment if they're not handled properly. Computers, telephones, office equipment, and some televisions will be accepted. But no luck if your TV is larger than 19 inches or encased in a wooden console. Kitchen appliances, microwaves, vacuums, and air conditioners also can not be turned in. (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) ============================================================== Now, granted the stuff that shows up will likely be 99% real junk (386 Wintel boxes) but is anybody in the area going to try to snag any of the 1% gold that may show up? I wish I had known about it sooner, my weekend is booked solid. Bill From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 12:25:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 emu and VanDyke CRT fix Message-ID: Using VanDyke's CRT telnet client as a 'console' for Rich's Altair Emulator, I find that I have to configure an option to make it play nicely: In 'Sesion Options" "Connection" "Telnet" [X] Force Character at a time mode That seems to have made it work well... and the launching sequence is critical, as laid out in a previous message... Cheers John From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Nov 15 12:34:01 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Big computer "scrap" cleanup in Washington, DC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a link to more info: http://www.epa.gov/epahome/headline2_111502.htm From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Nov 15 12:50:01 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Message-ID: <1e.24fdebf.2b069c16@aol.com> In a message dated 11/15/2002 9:20:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com writes: << If you still have the broken pieces, you can probably glue them back on with a solvent-weld plastic cement such as Tenax 7R. Then treat the mended sockets with extra care, as they will never be as stong as they were originally. >> why not just use hot-melt glue to keep the SIMMs in? At least you could remove them later. From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Nov 15 15:13:00 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries References: <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> Message-ID: <006d01c28ceb$ee1d5c60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> What's a LT battery ? Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:12 AM Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries > This has come up before but I can't remember it being resolved. > I often see suggestions for rejuvenating failed or dying laptop batteries using > a hi-amp source to flash them and break down the built-up crystals. > Most mention breaking the pack apart before doing this individually on each > cell. Is this because each cell might have different resistances ? Most of my > LT batteries no longer work anyway so it would be no big loss if it totalled > them. Sending a dozen or so batteries into a rebuild place is a costeffective > non-option and replacing the individual cells would still be costly. > > Lawrence > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 15 15:19:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: [OT] digest vs. mail filtering (was Re: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help?) In-Reply-To: <33120.64.169.63.74.1037374147.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20021115141801.41829.17965.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <33120.64.169.63.74.1037374147.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <19556631041.20021115152049@subatomix.com> On Friday, November 15, 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > On Linux (and Unix), procmail is commonly used for filtering, and is quite > flexible Procmail + formail = excellent. I used them to build a system that makes unknown senders go through a confirmation process. There are other packages out there to do this, but a procmail solution was the easiest to implement for me. It's basically a way to rid myself of spam forever. But... I haven't turned it on yet because it hasn't been adequately tested. The last thing I want is to be digging through the backup file and find something important that was not delivered. -- Jeffrey Sharp From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Nov 15 15:36:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <006d01c28ceb$ee1d5c60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <001301c28cef$22835560$4d4d2c0a@atx> > What's a LT battery ? > To me (and, I expect, to Tony) it powers the heaters in a valve (tube to those across the herring pond) portable radio :-) An almost obsolete term. In the message you were looking at, it appears to be LapTop (normally a Nicad) Andy From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Nov 15 15:40:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help References: Message-ID: <3DD569B3.1EC36414@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I downloaded E11 some years ago on a Pent I desktop but never got it to > > >work, prolly due to no smarts on my part. > > SIMH = Bob Supnik http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > > E11 = John Wilson http://www.dbit.com > Oh, Gawd... 1:30 am + Senior Moment... soory all. Wilson. sigh. Jerome Fine replies: PLUS, the commands used by each emulator are distinctly different. So read the manuals carefully. > > I'm not sure E11 will work under Win2k, especially if it's an older > > version, I've heard that it won't. > sigh sigh damn... I'll wait for further confirmation on this... Thanks > Billy G! I think I remember using E11 under Win2k, but I am not sure. There are certain problems since E11 is designed for DOS. However, I have run E11 under Windows 98 SE and Windows 95. Both seem to work well and have the added advantage of using the cache support which I don't think that DOS provides automatically. In addition, E11 is MUCH faster. I have run both E11 (Ersatz-11) and SIMH on a 750 MHz Pentium III. E11 seems to be about 15 times faster than a real PDP-11/93. Depending on the compiler used, SIMH seems to be about 2 times as fast as a real PDP-11/93. > > This doesn't sound right, I'd recommend getting a copy of the latest > > release. It sounds to me as if you might have gotten an infected copy of > > E11 from somewhere. > I downloaded what was listed as the latest rev... right from Dbit. Your system could also be infected. I have not experienced any problems similar to those that you mention. > P'raps I should try the Other One... anyone here using it on W2K? As I stated above, I think I tried. But there will be some restrictions even if it works. With the same AGP video card, I can use 132 character lines with Windows 98 SE, but NOT with either WME or WXP. For those of you who know, I focus on running RT-11. But no one else seems to care about fixing bugs in RT-11 let alone making enhancements. I hope by the end of 2003 to make V5.03 Y2K compliant, possibly even Y10K compliant. Anyone interested? Y10K compliant will required some agreements among RT-11 users, so I hope that this post can start that public discussion! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 15:41:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021115214249.52968.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 14 Nov 2002, brian wheeler wrote: > > > My department is planning to have a roast of the former director... > > > > Anyone have have an extra RA81/RA82 disk platter for free/cheap? > > What better way to roast him than to award him with an entire VAX? Heck, > they are cheap enough, sometimes even free. > > That ought to get a few chuckles, especially if it's a 6000 or 8000 > series with all the peripherals. And especially if you chain it to his bumper and make him drive it home. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Nov 15 15:47:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Beginner's Supnik Emulator help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 15, 2002 11:40:29 AM Message-ID: <200211152148.gAFLmeC16227@shell1.aracnet.com> > > This doesn't sound right, I'd recommend getting a copy of the latest > > release. It sounds to me as if you might have gotten an infected copy of > > E11 from somewhere. > > I downloaded what was listed as the latest rev... right from Dbit. In that case, I'd recommend sending John Wilson an email about it. If he's got an infected binary, I'm sure he'd like to know, if he doesn't, maybe he knows what's wrong. Plus you could doublecheck on the W2k part. > P'raps I should try the Other One... anyone here using it on W2K? Bob Supnik does all of his development on Windows, so SIMH works just fine there. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 15:49:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: New aquisition - IBM 3278/3279 emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021115215050.49349.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Just got the spoils of a recent eBay auction where I was the only bidder (surprise, surprise) on an IBM P/N 53F6425 ISA 3278/3279 emulation card. It comes with an installation manual and a diagnostic floppy. The question I have is what software would I need to make it do something? It has a coax connector, so clearly it needs to get attached to a real 3274 or equivalent (I _did_ see one at the Uni surplus a couple of weeks ago, but it was unpriced). I'm wondering about the PeeCee end of things. The manual makes vague reference to "your application software", so that's what I'm looking for info on. I have a similar, 3rd party card, for Twinax. This one is the IBM coax model, c. 1998. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From dave at naffnet.org.uk Fri Nov 15 16:16:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries References: <001301c28cef$22835560$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <3DD57277.522AD867@naffnet.org.uk> Andy Holt wrote: > > What's a LT battery ? > > > To me (and, I expect, to Tony) it powers the heaters in a valve (tube to > those across the herring pond) portable radio :-) An almost obsolete term. > > In the message you were looking at, it appears to be LapTop (normally a > Nicad) > > Andy I seem to remember a huge battery with a four-pin-socket, that you got HT with your LT, and the HT was 90V. Half the weight of a good old fashioned radio seemed to be made up of the battery, and it always seemed a very long way home from the jumble sale (I believe that the over-the-ponders call these 'rummage sales'). At the age of 9 or 10, the sheer size and weight of the radios meant that you always did something with them after you had fought them into the house... Cheers, Dave. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Nov 15 16:27:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: FA: Data General manuals, HP and Tektronix manuals, core memory, 3-axis acceleromer, Solaris Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021115173255.466fee88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm trying to clean out some of the clutter before the holidays and I've put a ton of stuff on e-bay including some core memory, a programmer's panel (both end in an hour. these are from computers that were junked before I found them), DG manuals, HP 9845 manuals, Tektronix programmable calibration generator manual, a 3-axis accelerometer, Solaris manuals, conductivity meter, and two NICE stepper motor drivers including one that's made by NEAT for driving optical stages. Joe From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Nov 15 17:14:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: CPM-8000 Message-ID: <200211152315.PAA13557@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've just sent my latest CPM-8000 stuff to the unofficial cp/m site. It is available under: http://www.cpm.z80.de/binary.html It has a working boot image plus the other files to run this on an Olivetti M20. It does have code to regenerate a new BIOS so that it can be ported to another Z8001 machine. If anyone is contemplating this, they should contact me or Chris to help out. There are a few things that effect hardware that one should know. It would also be very difficult to complete the job without access to a M20. I am willing to run compiles on my machine for anyone that writes their BIOS to create a working image. Thanks to Hans B Pufal, Gaby Chaudry and Al Kossow. Without there information, I wouldn't have been able to begin to get things working on the M20. Of course, 50% of the credit goes to Chris Groessler, as we collaborated on working the bugs out of creating the first boot images. Dwight From donm at cts.com Fri Nov 15 17:20:01 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > > Thank you Richard... the sequence of launching, and the correct response > > to Zonalarm, was required. All seems to be well using HyperTerm, which I > > nonetheless hate/loathe. > > > > I will try to gently massage (or viciously bludgeon) CRT into playing > > nicely with your emulator, failing that I'll DL TerraTerm. > > I highly recommend PuTTY as a Win32 terminal client. It rules. The > URL is incomprehensible, but if you Google "PuTTY", the second hit is > the download page. > > Doc Yes, it is certainly the terminal client of choice. It is just too bad that no one has 'married' it with Psftp to enable up/download without having to break out into a separate program. Rather more like the combined functions of a Telix or similar. - don From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Nov 15 18:12:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Litton systems? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021115093536.58ff8e58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021115093536.58ff8e58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DD585BF.2080908@arrl.net> Joe wrote: > Is anyone here familar with Litton Systems Guidance and Control Systems Division in Northridge California? I have a CP-2088 Navigation Computer that was built there and I'm trying to figure out what it goes into. > > Joe > > > I worked there for a few years, early 1970's. Not familiar with that particular unit, certain that it came after my stint there. I'll check with some ex-coworkers and let you know. -nick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 18:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> from "Bob Lafleur" at Nov 15, 2 00:25:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/7057e881/attachment.ksh From n4fs at monmouth.com Fri Nov 15 18:35:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries References: <001301c28cef$22835560$4d4d2c0a@atx> <3DD57277.522AD867@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <002501c28d07$bb42cd40$086dbd18@n4fs> HT stands for High Tension and LT for Low Tension (filaments). I have been zapping NiCds for about 40 years and have a fairly decent success rate. If it is not going to work you will know real soon. Sometimes a battery just cannot be zapped at all, in other words regardless of the finite high current that you momentarily put through it, it will still be a short. No sense wasting time on those. Others will open up and even take a charge during the zapping process. As mentioned before they need to be zapped individually. Just about 2 weeks ago I was working on the battery pack in my HP Cesium which was dead. Charging it externally at C/10 the terminal voltage never came close to what it should have been. This package is comprised of 20 1/2 size D cells. 7 of them were shorted. The date code was 1995 on the package, which I felt was not that old. I zapped the 7 cells and they all came alive. Then I charged them and all looked good. Then I discharged them at a 1 amp rate, the package is rated for 2.4 AH. I went through this exercise about 4 or 5 times, charge, discharge. Worked every time. I usually charged it during the night where I did not mind the long time of 10 hours. After the last charge cycle I just let it sit for over a week. That is usually when the bad ones show up. It still holds up fine and seems to meet rated capacity. Each cell is less than 10 millivolts from each other. I lucked out on this one as 1/2 Ds are not very common. There have been others when I was not so fortunate. But since it is bad, one has nothing to loose by trying. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 18:35:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Nov 15, 2 09:29:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/c24ba5a3/attachment.ksh From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 15 18:44:01 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c28d09$ec641800$023ca8c0@blafleur> The broken pieces are REAL small... Don't think it's worth trying to fix them! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:20 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci If you still have the broken pieces, you can probably glue them back on with a solvent-weld plastic cement such as Tenax 7R. Then treat the mended sockets with extra care, as they will never be as stong as they were originally. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Lafleur [mailto:bob_lafleur@technologist.com] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't lock in. Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Also, I broke them on Bank A. I assume you can't use RAM in Bank B without having Bank A full... Should I just trash the motherboard? Or can I salvage it somehow? Are these SIMM tabs particularly vulnerable, especially on this old equipment? I broke them on 2 machines, and on the 2nd one I did, I was trying to be very careful. - Bob (not a happy MACer today) From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 15 19:06:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002601c28d0c$ec00e200$023ca8c0@blafleur> Yes, I'd say a good way to repair, and I happen to like the Mac Iici so it's definitely worth fixing right. However, I'm visually impaired so that kind of hardware work is beyond my capability. (Heck, I probably should have let someone else remove the old SIMMs for me in the first place, but I was too anxious to get the new ones in!). Rest assured, this board will not go in the trash. I have a handle on replacement(s) for the ones I broke, and I've had someone express interest in fixing the broken ones I have, so I'm not going to dump them. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 7:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci > > Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I > broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't > lock in. > > Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering > new sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? Why ever not? The old sokcets are junk anyway, so you can cut them apart and desolder one pin at a time. Then clean out the holes (heat the solder from one side, apply the solder sucker to the other) and solder in the new sockets. It's not that difficult to do, and it's certainly how I'd repair that machine. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 19:50:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 15, 2 09:20:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2581 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/d3f1b09d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 19:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3DD57277.522AD867@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman" at Nov 15, 2 10:17:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/6e566b1b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 19:51:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 14, 2 11:51:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/61745bfd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 15 19:51:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <006d01c28ceb$ee1d5c60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> from "Sipke de Wal" at Nov 15, 2 10:14:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/9b8ae913/attachment.ksh From vernon_wright at hotmail.com Fri Nov 15 20:26:14 2002 From: vernon_wright at hotmail.com (Vernon Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Discovery Computers 4 Sale Message-ID: Curt, >Discovery Computers??? x86 multiprocessors??? Please elaborate, any links >or picks??? Discovery was produced by Ace Computer Action Enterprises, Pasadena, CA., c. 1983. It came in at least two models, as documented by one Bill Whitson in The List in '97. ACE Discovery 500 83 Discovery 1600 83 I have one Discovery 500, sans disk drives (one floppy, one MFM 20 gig [whoops, I mean meg :)]. I also have one Discovery ????, which is likely a slave unit - having no provision for disk drives (but does have a SemiDisk for some healthy memory). This is about as much as I know ('cept one of these ran a BBS back in the olden days, if memory serves). Don't find much documentation. But also, I haven't checked the Computer Museum of America, here in San Diego, except to ask if they would like to have them. They already have one, hope they will take one or both for parts or.... However, I'd be just as happy to see them in use by someone who has time and energy to make them go. Vern Wright vernon_wright@hotmail.com Posted & Mailed _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From gene at ehrich.com Fri Nov 15 20:34:18 2002 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Performa 550 ?? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021112205739.00bb1428@popmail.voicenet.com> I have a MAC Performa 550 that was working fine before I put it away. I just took it out and hooked it up. When I turned it on there was a quick indication of power and then nothing. Is there any kind of fuse in these machines or is it probably dead. Help From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 15 20:34:33 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Thank you Richard... the sequence of launching, and the correct response > > > to Zonalarm, was required. All seems to be well using HyperTerm, which I > > > nonetheless hate/loathe. > > > > > > I will try to gently massage (or viciously bludgeon) CRT into playing > > > nicely with your emulator, failing that I'll DL TerraTerm. > > > > I highly recommend PuTTY as a Win32 terminal client. It rules. The > > URL is incomprehensible, but if you Google "PuTTY", the second hit is > > the download page. > > I'll second that... when I'm forced to use Winderz, PuTTY is > indispensible. If you want even faster access, google for "PuTTY > download", and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky". :) I much prefer Cygwin/OpenSSH. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 15 20:34:46 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: New aquisition - IBM 3278/3279 emulator In-Reply-To: <20021115215050.49349.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What are you planning on hooking it to? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Just got the spoils of a recent eBay auction where I was the only > bidder (surprise, surprise) on an IBM P/N 53F6425 ISA 3278/3279 > emulation card. It comes with an installation manual and a diagnostic > floppy. The question I have is what software would I need to make it > do something? It has a coax connector, so clearly it needs to get > attached to a real 3274 or equivalent (I _did_ see one at the Uni > surplus a couple of weeks ago, but it was unpriced). I'm wondering > about the PeeCee end of things. > > The manual makes vague reference to "your application software", so > that's what I'm looking for info on. > > I have a similar, 3rd party card, for Twinax. This one is the IBM > coax model, c. 1998. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > From cvendel at att.net Fri Nov 15 20:35:00 2002 From: cvendel at att.net (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Preserving Newspaper. References: <200211082246.gA8MkwdV020120@spies.com><001601c28797$4118f000$0c00a8c0@starship1> <000e01c28908$24f19130$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <1036969082.7349.9.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <000401c2894f$2f5ef850$0c00a8c0@starship1> Great info, thanks Chris. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher McNabb" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Preserving Newspaper. > On Sun, 2002-11-10 at 17:25, Curt Vendel wrote: > > Anyone hear have good experience in the preservation of old Newspaper > > articles to keep the paper from becoming too yellowed and brittle??? I > > have a large collection of Atari related newspaper articles that I have on > > file and while I keep them out of light and in plastic magazine covers they > > are slowly but surely succumbing to yellowing and I am concerned they will > > dry out, become brittle and so forth.... any help would be appreciated. > > > > In my genealogy hobby (and in my wife's scrapbooking hobby) this is a > major concern. The yellowing is caused by various acids used in the > manufacturing of the paper. The only real way to prevent yellowing is > to use acid free paper and ink. Unfortunately, newspapers do not do > this. The best you can do is to keep them out of the light. I would > also recommend going to a scrapbook store and purchase archival quality > plastic covers instead of plain old plastic magazine covers. > > One thing I did with a one hundred and fifty year old family bible was > to photograph the family record pages using using a Minox-B camera > (1960's movie spy camera) and Agfapan black and white film. The > negatives will keep almost forever and I can make new prints whenever I > need to. > > -- > Christopher L McNabb > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD > From cfnelson_87111 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 20:35:18 2002 From: cfnelson_87111 at yahoo.com (Curt Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Free Amiga software and manuals Message-ID: <20021112094544.68647.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com> I have rescued the following Commodore Amiga items on their way to the dumpster. The whole lot is available for free to a good home if you pay for the shipping (or pick them up in Albuquerque). If you are interested, please contact me at cfnelson_87111@yahoo.com. Note that I have never used an Amiga and thus do not have any information beyond what is printed on the disks and manuals. I also do not know if the disks any good; they have no visible signs of damage. - disks and manuals Amiga operating system ARexx AmigaDOS Workbench 2.1 AmigaVision ProWrite (New Horizons Software) word processor, version 3.0 ProScript (New Horizons Software) PostScript utility, version 1.0 Professional Calc (Gold Disk), 1.00 and 1.02 update Deluxe Paint III (Electronic Arts) Deluxe Paint IV (Electronic Arts) Amiga TCP/IP, AS225 2 copies X Window System (GfxBase), 4.x GDA-1 (GfxBase), Graphics Display Adapter 1, 1.0 VideoScape 3D (Aegis) solid 3-D animation and rendering, 2.0 includes bonus Pro/Motion (Aegis), 1.0b Draw 2000 (Aegis) desktop CADD UltraDesign! (Progressive Peripherals & Software) CADD software, 1.0 and 1.1 AmigaTeX and METAFONT (Radical Eye Software) lots of disks for different versions Quarterback (Central Coast Software) hard disk backup, 503 - disks only (no manuals) ARexx (William S.Hawes), 1.10 AC/FORTRAN (absoft) TxEd Plus V2.01 (Microsmiths) Amiga Workbench 1.3 UEDIT (Rick Stiles) Professional Page (Gold Disk), 1.1 A-Max IV (ReadySoft) Mac emulator - manuals only (no disks) flickerFixer, Owner's Manual (MicroWay), advanced graphics adapter for A2000 Presentation Master (Oxxi) Superbase 4 (Precision Software) - database and text editor - form designer and programming language - applications guide - hardware manuals and software (no hardware) Amiga 2088 Bridgeboard, for A2000/IBM-PC XT compatibility GVP Series II 68030 Accelerator Board for Amiga 2000 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From david.comley at motorola.com Fri Nov 15 20:35:31 2002 From: david.comley at motorola.com (Comley David-MGI7339) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: ASR33 Problems Message-ID: <852DAFF1FD3BD611B68000D0B76FE77402AC1334@pa06exm01.e1.bcs.mot.com> >>From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk >> >>> >>> Any Teletype ASR33 experts out there ? I have a couple >>> of problems with a teletype that recently came my way. >> >>I believe the ASR33 manauls are available on a web site somewhere. If >>you don't have them as printed books, then you want to get these files >>and print them. They make life a lot easier. OK, I did a complete >>strip-down, clean, oil, reassemble and adjust job on an ASR33 without the >>manuals (and with never having seen the manuals), but then I tend to do >>crazy things like that... >> >>> >>> i) When I type a character from the keyboard in local >>> mode, something else gets printed. What gets printed >>> is not consistently the same character. I've watched >>> the selector mechanism while I hit rubout (all marking >>> codebars) and I can see that the codebars are not >>> being consistently selected betwee key presses: >>> sometimes I get 5 of them, sometimes 6 and >>> occasionally all 8. The high order bits seem to be >>> worst affected by this inconsistency. However if I >>> hold down the repeat key and select a character, the >>> right codebars are being selected. I punched a number >>> of characters onto tape to verify this and they seem >>> to be punching OK. This suggests to me that this isn't >> >>If the character _always_ punches correctly, then the right codebars are >>being selected. So I assume this is not the case. >Hi >I think you need to make this point clearer. When a character >is punched, the same character is miss printed on the platen? >This is how I read his original post. Even using the REPT key to workaround the codebar issue, I wasn't able to connect the carriage problem conclusively to either a rotational or a vertical problem. I think at this point I'm going to take the carriage off again and try a more thorough dismantle/clean/oil. Once I resolve the codebar issue it will be easier to diagnose the carriage problem with a clean mechanism. >This tells me it is something sticking in the linkage that goes >between the code bars and the print head( or he has it installed >wrong but that doesn't explain why it starts working with repeats ). >I would remove the print assembly and put it in some solvent >while moving the levers. Then clean it off/dry it and re-oil >it. You most likely have some dry oil that is sluggish. Getting >oil into the right place will take a bit. >In the service( military ), we used to clean things in a bath >of water and heavy detergent. This was done in an ultrasonic >cleaner. We'd then rinse and bake it at about 150F for a few >hours. Then Re-oil/grease, place on test bench and fine adjust. >I suspect that a good dish washing liquid would work. I remember using an arklone bath at a place I worked years ago for cleaning circuit boards. Probably taken a few years off my live expectancy breathing that stuff in. > >Basically, there are 3 possible problem areas : > >1) The keyboard contacts are not closing correctly, so the parallel data >output of the keyboard is incorrect. > >2) The distributor disk (rear right of the typing unit) is not correctly >serialising the data from the keyboard. Unlikely, but possible. > >3) The selector unit (rear left of the typing unit) is malfunctioning, >and is not correclty responding the receiving magnet. > I can see the armature 'stutter' when I punch the rubout key - by stutter, I mean that its movement looks slightly different between keypresses. So I'm inclined to think that the magnet is just responding to what it is receiving which is incorrect. I cleaned the distributor and reseated the brushes, readjusted the brush holder to the alignment mark per the adjustment procedure in the manual. So I'm back to option 1) - the keyboard - as the source of the problem. One thing I noticed last night was that the keyboard cover is broken. There are four round tabs, one at each corner, that fit into corresponding holes on the end plates. These are broken, so the cover can rock from side to side, pivoting on those center projections. I wonder if that could cause some sort of alignment problem within the keyboard ? Thanks for the suggestions - I will get to it again tonight and see what else I can find out. I hate the idea of opening that keyboard up... >I would check (3) first. It may need to be removed, dismantled, cleaned, >and re-lubricated. It's not uncommon for parts to stick on old, gummy, >lubricant. > >> an electrical problem since whatever code the keyboard >> is sending is eventually being sensed correctly. >> >> ii) In addition to i) above, even if I do get all the >> codebars moving as required, the wrong characters are >> being printed. I removed the carriage, cleaned and >> oiled it and replaced it but this hasn't helped. > >How did you clean it? I have found that soaking compete assemblies in >solvent doesn't help much. You really have to take all the parts apart, >clean them, and then re-assemble them. If yoy've done this, then there >are a lot of sdjustment you'd have to set up. > >A character decoding problem must be in the carriage. There are 4 parts >to the decoder mechanism : > >2 bits -> one of 4 levels of lift of the type cylinder >1 bit -) rotate cylinder left or right >2 bits -> one of 4 angles (pairs of characters) of rotation of the cylinder >1 bit -> an extra 1 character angle rotate (it moves the selector bars >for the previous rotation selection slightly...). > >Figure out which mechanism is malfunctioning by comparing the position of >the character you get with the position of the character you should be >getting. Then work out what's not operating properly. > >-tony > > From per at tdsi.co.uk Fri Nov 15 20:35:45 2002 From: per at tdsi.co.uk (per@tdsi.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: 65C51 Stock? Message-ID: <01C28B38.B022DF20.prudland@tdsi.co.uk> Hello Ross, The 65C51 seems to have gone obsolete and I'm looking for stock of the Rockwell 65C51, or equivalent. I saw your name mentioned in a reference on the 'net about supply of 65xx series IC's and wondered if you've got any contacts who might have 65C51's available. I've made other enquiries through the trade, but they are all a bit hit-and-miss and I thought you might know what the present situation is with these devices. Regards, Peter Rudland, TDSi, Poole, Dorset, UK From vance at neurotica.com Fri Nov 15 20:35:58 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Broken SIMM tabs on Mac IIci In-Reply-To: <009001c28c67$6b1d5600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Ok, so I did it... When trying to remove the SIMMS in my Mac IIci I > broke some of the little tiny plastic tabs, so now the new SIMMs won't > lock in. > > Is there some "fix" to get the SIMMs to stay in, short of soldering new > sockets into the board (which I am not about to do)? I've used Scotch tape to tape SIMM's down in PS/2s. Seems to work well if you don't shake the machine around too much. Peace... Sridhar From winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 20:36:12 2002 From: winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com (David G.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: kaypro 2 boot disk. Message-ID: <20021115172402.37192.qmail@web9808.mail.yahoo.com> I need a boot disk for a kaypro 2. A freind gave me boot disk for the II, but that didn't work. Also I need a commodore pet for a display at a school, dead or alive any model. Please email me winnderfish_falls@yahoo.com Thanks, David G. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 15 20:43:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:54 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I'll second that... when I'm forced to use Winderz, PuTTY is > > indispensible. If you want even faster access, google for "PuTTY > > download", and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky". :) > > I much prefer Cygwin/OpenSSH. Yes, but. You're assuming voluntary use of a Windows box where we have time & authority to install software. A VERY rare accurance in my little world. PuTTY fits on a floppy, and will happily run from the floppy, on any 32bit Windows. Hmm. Has anybody tried it in Windows 3.x running Win32? Doc From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 15 20:54:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: kaypro 2 boot disk. Message-ID: >I need a boot disk for a kaypro 2. A freind gave me >boot disk for the II, but that didn't work. >Also I need a commodore pet for a display at a school, >dead or alive any model. Can the Kaypro 2 disks be copied without a Kaypro 2? I have some Kaypro 2 software, but it is already promised to someone else (just waiting for them to pick it up whenever they are next in the area). If they can safely be dupilcated with a PC, I can run off a copy while waiting (but unless this is a 100% safe thing, I don't want to do it, I don't want to risk screwing up the disks) -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Nov 15 20:55:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Performa 550 ?? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20021112205739.00bb1428@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a MAC Performa 550 that was working fine before I put it away. I > just took it out and hooked it up. When I turned it on there was a quick > indication of power and then nothing. Is there any kind of fuse in these > machines or is it probably dead. Replace the PROM battery. A dead battery takes out the video first on those guys. Doc From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 15 21:00:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3DD57277.522AD867@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3DD5615A.28210.1575A62D@localhost> Yeah that was just a lazy typer's shorthand for LapTop. I had forgotten that term. I've got an old tube portable with the 4-pin plug, that used them. Where the term B voltage came from I believe. You can still get them but they are very expensive. The battery was likely bigger than this portable itself. I've thought of using 2 power supplies to see if I could get it working. I've also got a raft of old tubes(valves--much more descriptive) Lawrence > Andy Holt wrote: > > > > What's a LT battery ? > > > > > To me (and, I expect, to Tony) it powers the heaters in a valve (tube to > > those across the herring pond) portable radio :-) An almost obsolete term. > > > > In the message you were looking at, it appears to be LapTop (normally a > > Nicad) > > > > Andy > > I seem to remember a huge battery with a four-pin-socket, that you got > HT with your LT, and the HT was 90V. Half the weight of a good old fashioned > radio seemed to be made up of the battery, and it always seemed a very long way > home from the jumble sale (I believe that the over-the-ponders call these > 'rummage sales'). At the age of 9 or 10, the sheer size and weight of the radios > meant that you always did something with them after you had fought them into the > house... > > Cheers, > > Dave. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 15 21:00:18 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Nov 15, 2 09:29:38 am Message-ID: <3DD5615B.4806.1575A65F@localhost> I'm lucky enough to have picked up an old marine battery charger for $5 at a yard sale last year. It's good for 6v-60v. with voltage and amperage controls as well as a 10A limiter switch. As I say, I've got about a dozen Ni-Cads and about a dozen laptops, none of which, except an old NEC, which has a working battery. Also a Commodore 386 that I've been unable to find a power supply for,( has a strange 5pin mini-din plug, made by Sanyo I believe also labelled as a Zeus, and Everex). I have to decide which laps I want to use as carry-abouts and possibly rebuild them myself as even the rebuilders charge about US$60 ($6000 Canadian ? :^} ) And if I have to take them apart anyways I may as well get my own replacement cells and use duct-tape. Thanks all. There's also a PD program called "deepdran.exe" (deepdrain) which I can use to exercise the batteries after, if it's successfull. Worth a try. Lawrence > > > > > >What really happens is that minute 'hairs' grow from terminal to > > >terminal in the cell, effectively shorting it out. To remove them > > >requires a flash of current to 'burn' them out. Either a high current > > >source (10A or more) or a large capacitor discharged into the cell does > > >the job. > > > > I have used an automobile battery to "zap" them. Shorting a NiCad > > Rather you than me! A car battery can provide a rediculously high current > (at least 500A), and the risk of the NiCd exploding is pretty high as a > result. I prefer to use a current limited bench PSU (10A max), and even > then to just 'tap' the contact. > > > to an auto battery for just a split second usually burns out the > > whiskers. HOEVER the fix usually doesn't last long. One of things that > > Agreed. As you seid below, the NiCds will work long enough to prove that > the rest of the device is working and that it's worth investing in a new > set of NiCd cells. > > -tony > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 15 21:01:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Performa 550 ?? Message-ID: >I have a MAC Performa 550 that was working fine before I put it away. I >just took it out and hooked it up. When I turned it on there was a quick >indication of power and then nothing. Is there any kind of fuse in these >machines or is it probably dead. Check the PRAM battery. Many of the Mac models with soft power won't boot without a good PRAM battery. It need not read the full 3.6 volts, but anything less than 1 volt is no good. The battery, oddly enough is available as a regular stock item at Radio Shack (yet similar PC CMOS batteries are not... go figure). Also, the 550 models are soft power, but also have a hard power switch on the back. Make sure the switch is on, and then hit the power key on the keyboard to actually power it up. Just flipping the hard power switch on the back won't let the mac boot (but will usually result in a quick electrical pop noise as it charges up, if the mac has been idle long enough). -chris From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 15 21:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Litton systems? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021115093536.58ff8e58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Joe wrote: > Is anyone here familar with Litton Systems Guidance and Control > Systems Division in Northridge California? I have a CP-2088 Navigation > Computer that was built there and I'm trying to figure out what it goes > into. I believe my uncle worked there for years, but whether he would know anything about this is another issue. I believe he did mostly COBOL development, so that would most likely preclude him from having worked on that system. The next time I talk to him(?) I'll try to remember to bring it up ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 15 21:05:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: > Thanks again... certainly an wonderful example of what this List is > for... All the more inspiring, considering Richard learned how to program C through this project. (Is that right, Rich?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 15 21:50:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: kaypro 2 boot disk. References: Message-ID: <002401c28d23$65885340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >I need a boot disk for a kaypro 2. Open up the computer and look for a prominent labelled ROM. If your label number matches mine, I'll make you a copy. The number match tip from Don Maslin, who probably knows more than I do on this. Also it might help if you mention for sure whether it's a '2' or a 'II', although the ROM issue trumps this. John A. From gmphillips at earthlink.net Fri Nov 15 22:01:10 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips. We just don't throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts". I could not count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were displayed loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's shop. Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash than into some chip collectors collection? 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from the face of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like saying a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than in some collectors collection. 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare" varieties of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would probably be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip collectors are out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips out of them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are worth. I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for chips. In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines that have been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were. 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without chip collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips. Sure you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also have people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not worth listing on EBAY. If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines in 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because as the word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will end up in the trash. 7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay for them from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not sell small quantities. I have sold spare chips out of my collection to vintage computer enthusiasts. Most collectors have "spares" that they acquire for trading. If you need a particular chip, changes are good that you can get one from a collector if you offer the collector some other chip that you have several of. 8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to pay $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip collectors collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords, chips that vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway. The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips routinely bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is that it's the same group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. If the handful of serious chip collectors were to each obtain an example of every chip every made, it would not have much effect at all on the ability of vintage computer enthusiasts to obtain replacement parts for your machines. If you want to blame someone for the high price of vintage chips, blame the people who melted down millions of them for their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful of serious chip collectors. 9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" than a chip in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over the vintage machines that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That said, we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and should be preserved. Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts have such a negative view of chip collectors. That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage computer collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of new faces into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon. What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters" that came along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of components. Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they build them from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very concept of of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because their machines are constantly changing. That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their collections are old CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines over the years. You bring up chip collecting and they say that's pretty cool, I already have a small collection. The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to keep your hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and entire your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off by your attitudes toward chip collectors. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:13 PM Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > > I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards > > has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : ( > > I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly > because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer > for those people who could actually put them to use. And then > secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what > might be otherwise working systems or subsystems. > > There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems > are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It > /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or > resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of > them to see things our way is progress. > > Evangelizing on the behalf of classic computing is something we all > should be doing. I tend to do a lot of that when it comes to my VAXen. > And where permitted, I always have a classic computer or two on the > network at my workplace. The NeXT that's beside my new iMac at work > always raises eyebrows and generates a lot of questions. > > Other things that help are contributing to the various computer museums > (money, unique equipment, your time, etc.) Providing information to > people on this list is useful. The documentation scanning projects are > wonderful resources. The publicity generated by things like the VCF is > good; Sellam getting visibity in Wired and on Tech TV raises awareness > in a broader audience than could be otherwise achieved. And I think > books like _Collectible Microcomputers_ and Christian Wurster's > _Computers: An Illustrated History_ are useful to have lying around as > coffee table material. > > -brian. > > From gmphillips at earthlink.net Fri Nov 15 22:03:36 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Fw: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] Message-ID: <00cb01c28d26$18307de0$0100a8c0@sys1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Galt" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips. > We just don't > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts". > I could not > count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were > displayed > loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's > shop. > Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash than > into some > chip collectors collection? > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from > the face > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like > saying > a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than > in some > collectors collection. > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare" > varieties > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would > probably > be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > collectors are > out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips > out of > them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are > worth. > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for > chips. > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > that have > been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were. > > 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without chip > collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips. > Sure > you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also > have > people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not worth > listing on EBAY. > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > in > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because > as the > word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will > end up > in the trash. > > 7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay for > them > from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not sell small > quantities. > I have sold spare chips out of my collection to vintage computer > enthusiasts. > Most collectors have "spares" that they acquire for trading. If you > need a > particular chip, changes are good that you can get one from a collector > if > you offer the collector some other chip that you have several of. > > 8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to pay > $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip > collectors collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords, > chips that > vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway. > > The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips > routinely > bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is that it's > the same > group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. If the handful of > serious chip > collectors were to each obtain an example of every chip every made, it > would > not have much effect at all on the ability of vintage computer > enthusiasts to > obtain replacement parts for your machines. If you want to blame > someone > for the high price of vintage chips, blame the people who melted down > millions > of them for their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful of > serious > chip collectors. > > 9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" than a > chip > in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over the vintage > machines > that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That > said, > we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and > should > be preserved. Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a > working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned > this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts > have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage > computer > collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of new > faces > into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't see that > happening any time soon. > > What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters" that > came > along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of > components. > Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they build them > from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very concept of > of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because their > machines > are constantly changing. > > That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their > collections are old > CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines over the years. You > bring > up chip collecting and they say that's pretty cool, I already have a > small collection. > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > keep your > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and > entire > your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off > by your > attitudes toward chip collectors. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Chase" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:13 PM > Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > > > > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > > > > I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards > > > has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : ( > > > > I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly > > because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer > > for those people who could actually put them to use. And then > > secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what > > might be otherwise working systems or subsystems. > > > > There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems > > are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It > > /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or > > resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of > > them to see things our way is progress. > > > > Evangelizing on the behalf of classic computing is something we all > > should be doing. I tend to do a lot of that when it comes to my VAXen. > > And where permitted, I always have a classic computer or two on the > > network at my workplace. The NeXT that's beside my new iMac at work > > always raises eyebrows and generates a lot of questions. > > > > Other things that help are contributing to the various computer museums > > (money, unique equipment, your time, etc.) Providing information to > > people on this list is useful. The documentation scanning projects are > > wonderful resources. The publicity generated by things like the VCF is > > good; Sellam getting visibity in Wired and on Tech TV raises awareness > > in a broader audience than could be otherwise achieved. And I think > > books like _Collectible Microcomputers_ and Christian Wurster's > > _Computers: An Illustrated History_ are useful to have lying around as > > coffee table material. > > > > -brian. > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Nov 15 22:25:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? Message-ID: Okey-dokey. I have now got all the nice SIMH packages stashed neatly away on the Trusty Laptop. Obviously, they must be compiled. In terms of software, I am an appliance operator. I have had very minimal experience with C programming, mostly in the 'hello world' levels of complexity, and that years ago. Therefore, what would recommendations be for a simple, cheap/free, plain old C package that I could use to compile these simulators? I understand the basic idea behind the process, but it's been many years since I compiled anything, save for the tiny Fortran demo program in the RSX11M docs... I am not going to use it for 'real' programming, just to make a PDP-faux-11 on my Wintel Lap-Puter. T I A John From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Nov 15 22:39:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701c28d2a$aab310c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> John, If your laptop is running Windows, then the easiest way to compile everything is with the Mingw compiler. Just install Mingw (one time deal) and then there's a batch file distributed with the SIMH source to compile all the binaries. Pretty much automated (except that you have to make a "bin" directory, the batch file doesn't make it, and if you don't, it will "look" like everything is compiling but you'll get no executables!) I can also just E-mail to you (or anyone) the executables you want compiled for Windows. Much easier than compiling them yourself, if you don't care to get involved in that. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:27 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Simple C compiler advice? Okey-dokey. I have now got all the nice SIMH packages stashed neatly away on the Trusty Laptop. Obviously, they must be compiled. In terms of software, I am an appliance operator. I have had very minimal experience with C programming, mostly in the 'hello world' levels of complexity, and that years ago. Therefore, what would recommendations be for a simple, cheap/free, plain old C package that I could use to compile these simulators? I understand the basic idea behind the process, but it's been many years since I compiled anything, save for the tiny Fortran demo program in the RSX11M docs... I am not going to use it for 'real' programming, just to make a PDP-faux-11 on my Wintel Lap-Puter. T I A John From rcini at optonline.net Fri Nov 15 22:44:01 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (rcini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator Message-ID: Sellam: >On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Lawson wrote: >> Thanks again... certainly an wonderful example of what this List is >> for... >All the more inspiring, considering Richard learned how to program C >through this project. >(Is that right, Rich?) Yes, this is true. If you look in the ZIP file for "building.txt" I give a little background on how I got involved. To sap some bandwidth, here's the Readers Digest version: By day, I'm a banker. By night, a closet programmer. I came across the binaries for the original emulators about three years ago. Since I have no expectations of owning a real Altair, I thought that it would be great to use an emulator. Well, the original implementation didn't work. About two years ago, I found the source for it on the Web. I contacted Claus Giloi and he basically said that he didn't have time to improve it or actually verify that it worked. For him, the project started in 1991...the last build was done in late-1996. Claus built the emulator from the magazine article and the data books -- nothing else. He had no software or a physical Altair to work with. The original emulator supported nothing...no disks, no console, no way to get programs into or out of it. The CPU code was about 80% functional, but it's the old "80/20" rule...the last 20% was the hardest to fix. Basically blinkenlights and nothing else. My total programming experience for years was limited to BASIC, VisualBASIC and 6502 assembler (on the Commodores). For pleasure, I had already read all of the Andrew Schulman "Undocumented..." and "...Internals" books, so I was familiar with what was going on in a Windows program (from the inside), and there were plenty of C code examples to read, but like any language (programming or other), it's one thing to read it and another to write it. So, since Claus gave me the go-ahead to take over the project, I jumped right in, and the first mods were done on June 8, 2000. So, not only did I have to learn the syntactical nuiances of C, but I had to learn the intricacies of Windows programming and emulator writing, in addition to noodling around code written by a professional developer working for Microsoft. I'm still lousy at C, and I wish I could take an "Adult Education" class on it. Anyway, that's the story. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021115/ad21eea1/winmail.bin From msspcva at yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 22:45:01 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021116044609.4886.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> John: I'm not sure it's that simple, but GNU C is free, supported on WinTel, and should be able to compile the code. Check out http://www.gnu.org/ I've not looked at how big the download would be or anything else I'm afraid. -- Frank --- John Lawson wrote: > > Okey-dokey. I have now got all the nice SIMH > packages stashed neatly > away on the Trusty Laptop. > > Obviously, they must be compiled. > > In terms of software, I am an appliance operator. > I have had very > minimal experience with C programming, mostly in the > 'hello world' levels > of complexity, and that years ago. > > Therefore, what would recommendations be for a > simple, cheap/free, > plain old C package that I could use to compile > these simulators? I > understand the basic idea behind the process, but > it's been many years > since I compiled anything, save for the tiny Fortran > demo program in the > RSX11M docs... I am not going to use it for 'real' > programming, just to > make a PDP-faux-11 on my Wintel Lap-Puter. > > > T I A > > > John > > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From jbmcb at hotmail.com Sat Nov 16 00:07:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Performa 550 ?? References: Message-ID: I second the PRAM (Parameter RAM) battery fix. Also, if you turn the machine on, it powers up then nothing, if you do a hard reset once or twice it should boot normally, but with all PRAM settings set to default (IE clock set to "Date of Antiquity") After replacing the PRAM battery, make sure to zap your PRAM at first boot to get a clean default setup by holding down command-option-p-r (I think) on first boot. Let it reset three times, then let it boot. Hey, at least they behave better than when those old Sun NVRAM clockchip batteries die :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Performa 550 ?? > On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > I have a MAC Performa 550 that was working fine before I put it away. I > > just took it out and hooked it up. When I turned it on there was a quick > > indication of power and then nothing. Is there any kind of fuse in these > > machines or is it probably dead. > > Replace the PROM battery. A dead battery takes out the video first on > those guys. > > Doc > From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 16 00:13:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Performa 550 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > I have a MAC Performa 550 that was working fine before I put it away. I > > just took it out and hooked it up. When I turned it on there was a quick > > indication of power and then nothing. Is there any kind of fuse in these > > machines or is it probably dead. > > Replace the PROM battery. A dead battery takes out the video first on > those guys. > > Doc You might want to check if the PSU fan spins. If not, the fuse - buried within the PSU - may be blown. Otherwise, the battery is the next shot. - don From jbmcb at hotmail.com Sat Nov 16 00:13:14 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? References: <003701c28d2a$aab310c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: If not running windows, use DJGPP, which is the Gnu GCC toolchain for DOS. It's been around almost forever and has excellent support. It compiles 32-bit code using DPMI for extended memory/32-bit support. Use DJGPP and FreeDOS for a completely free/open-source/GPL'd development environment. If you want something just a bit beefier for Windows there's V-IDE, a nice IDE for C, C++, and Java. Supports Gnu C, as well as the free Borland C/C++ 5.5 compiler. Also freeware/open-source. V-IDE: http://www.objectcentral.com/vide.htm DJGPP: http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/ FreeDOS: http://www.freedos.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:43 PM Subject: RE: Simple C compiler advice? > John, > > If your laptop is running Windows, then the easiest way to compile > everything is with the Mingw compiler. Just install Mingw (one time > deal) and then there's a batch file distributed with the SIMH source to > compile all the binaries. Pretty much automated (except that you have to > make a "bin" directory, the batch file doesn't make it, and if you > don't, it will "look" like everything is compiling but you'll get no > executables!) > > I can also just E-mail to you (or anyone) the executables you want > compiled for Windows. Much easier than compiling them yourself, if you > don't care to get involved in that. > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:27 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Simple C compiler advice? > > > > Okey-dokey. I have now got all the nice SIMH packages stashed neatly > away on the Trusty Laptop. > > Obviously, they must be compiled. > > In terms of software, I am an appliance operator. I have had very > minimal experience with C programming, mostly in the 'hello world' > levels of complexity, and that years ago. > > Therefore, what would recommendations be for a simple, cheap/free, > plain old C package that I could use to compile these simulators? I > understand the basic idea behind the process, but it's been many years > since I compiled anything, save for the tiny Fortran demo program in the > RSX11M docs... I am not going to use it for 'real' programming, just to > make a PDP-faux-11 on my Wintel Lap-Puter. > > > T I A > > > John > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Sat Nov 16 00:21:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter References: <1037303575.28988.52.camel@wombat.educ.indiana.edu> Message-ID: I've got one, but it's occupying a place of honor in my collection. The rest are sitting in my RA-82, which I'm not about to take apart. These things are hard to come by, as actually cracking open a RA series disk enclosure is akin to opening an industrial refridgeration compressor, they just aren't designed to come apart. My friend managed to open one by chocking a concrete drill with a high speed cobalt aircraft auger bit and drilling out the bolt/screw things that cement the clamshell shut. ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian wheeler" To: ; Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:52 PM Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter > Sort of off topic, but sort of not. > > My department is planning to have a roast of the former director and > because he was a big user of our former VAX systems, some people think > that mounting a disk platter would be a nice touch. > > Anyone have have an extra RA81/RA82 disk platter for free/cheap? > > Brian Wheeler > bdwheele@indiana.edu > From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 16 00:22:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: kaypro 2 boot disk. In-Reply-To: <002401c28d23$65885340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > >I need a boot disk for a kaypro 2. > > Open up the computer and look for a prominent labelled > ROM. If your label number matches mine, I'll make you > a copy. The number match tip from Don Maslin, who > probably knows more than I do on this. Also it might > help if you mention for sure whether it's a '2' or a > 'II', although the ROM issue trumps this. > > John A. > The ROM number for a II would be one of 81-149/232 and for a 2 would be 81-292 or possibly 81-478. Each one requires a different variant of Kaypro CP/M. - don From curt at atari-history.com Sat Nov 16 08:53:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: VMS BBS software References: Message-ID: <003301c2153d$11a99530$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Anyone have or know a site with some BBS software for OpenVMS? Curt From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Nov 16 10:36:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? In-Reply-To: References: <003701c28d2a$aab310c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021116102345.00ae05d8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Jason McBrien may have mentioned these words: >If you want something just a bit beefier for Windows there's V-IDE, a nice >IDE for C, C++, and Java. Supports Gnu C, as well as the free Borland C/C++ >5.5 compiler. Also freeware/open-source. I liked the GWD editor so much, I bought it. It's got some very nice features for programmers of C/Perl/HTML/PHP/Whatever... not too expensive, either. >V-IDE: >http://www.objectcentral.com/vide.htm What I've been looking for is a decent, fairly simple windowing environment (text boxes, menus & a couple buttons is all I need...) to run under Winders and/or Linux -- that works with C. [ IMHO, C's a PITA, but it works... every 'derivitave' work I've read about / learned about, makes me long for Basic09... ] V-IDE says it comes with GUI-stuff, but on their webpage it says that it's for C++. :-( Otherwise, I recommend the cygwin tools - this gives you a subset of the GNU *nix tools to use on your Win32 box -- bash, grep, diff, PostgreSQL, TeX, etc... Very handy to have - especially when you wanna do a bit'o bash scripting. ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From marvin at rain.org Sat Nov 16 10:47:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Chip Collecting References: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3DD676D5.11C382@rain.org> John Galt wrote: > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. > No need to defend your hobby. I really haven't seen anyone complain about chip collectors, and anyone that does is probably a miniscule part of the number of people in our hobby. Are there any good web sites to look up chips that might be collectable? As a for instance, I received quite a few chips including a few with "Engineering Sample" on them when a friend died who had collected a LOT of manuals, parts, machines, catalogs, etc. There were even some adapter boards I had made for to change the footprint of some 64 bit multiplier chips. I won't throw them away, but it would be great to have a reference site. What about early sample kits? I also have a friend of mine who collected quite a number of chips including some that were never released except in limited quanities, and I am SURE he would be interested in finding a buyer for some of his stuff. He doesn't collect per se but was using them for projects (he designed and sold a box to add color to early TRS computers.) From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 10:48:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym. On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips. > We just don't > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts". I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in the bottom of a drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 or some handheld). But even then, collectors don't throw their computers in the bottom of a drawer. > I could not > count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were > displayed > loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's > shop. > Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash > than into some > chip collectors collection? Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But we aren't talking about loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond within the context (no straw men here). > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from > the face > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of a board that is now gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what happened to that Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the CPU? > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like > saying > a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than > in some > collectors collection. If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. By removing the chip from a computer it once powered or helped work, you are removing it from its historical context. From a hobbyists point of view, you are taking something that once worked, removing one part of it that will make it unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now non-functioning, part over the whole in which it once ran. > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare" > varieties > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would > probably > be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel C8080 either, when a C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative sample, right? Unless you have a cereal box prize mentality and must "collect all 8!" > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > collectors are > out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips > out of > them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are > worth. > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for > chips. What happened to that Altair CPU board? > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > that have > been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were. Examples? What happened to the chips? > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > in > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because > as the > word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will > end up > in the trash. You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down the road will be willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part of his amazing collection of dead silicon. Because in all likelihood that's what it will be anyway: dead. > that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That > said, > we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and > should > be preserved. And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors because we have whole computers full of them. > Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a > working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned > this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts > have such a negative view of chip collectors. Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I believe this is your opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining any sympathy. > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > keep your > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and > entire > your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off > by your > attitudes toward chip collectors. Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been turned off by the comments on this list. Now name all the chip collectors you steered away from this list because you feel we are biased against chip collectors. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 10:48:14 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Fw: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <00cb01c28d26$18307de0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: And by the way, please learn to format your messages. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 16 11:16:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <01bd01c28d94$02167e60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The vast majority of people on earth have no regard for computers greater than 10 years old. Rather than criticize them, it's probably best to remain silent and simply try to benefit from the waste stream as best as one can. A good way of operating is to save what you can, and offer what you can't save by networking with others (like making rescue announcements here). If this amounts to taking chips from trash bound machines, then fine, but do the networking first, since you're already here. I will pull the machine from the trash, announce it, wait a week and then return it to waste, provided it's not a keeper where I'll test it and then clean it all up. Format tip: line lengths less than 80 characters. 72 OK Anybody know when we passed the point where 300M computers were produced in the US, one per man-woman-child? My guess: 1997. John A. From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sat Nov 16 11:24:11 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <002b01c28d96$0e67ce10$0100a8c0@sys1> The Altair board I bought because it contained an Intel C8080 CPU is currently in my collection waiting on the day I obtain an Altair 8800 that does not have an original CPU board that I can restore back to original condition. Surprized? I've actually bid on a number of Altair 8800's on EBAY but have not won one yet. What would I do with an Altair 8800? I'm not sure. I would like to have one simply for it's historic value but there's no way in hell I would hang out with people like you if that's what it took to restore it to working order. Sellam, you come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage computer community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your hobby. That said, I'm sure you are a brilliant dude and you probably think you are doing what's best for your hobby but I think you are going about it in the wrong way. Let me give you an example. "People" (lots of them), from kids doing book reports, to chip collectors search the net looking for information on early processors. What do they find? They find these threads on this forum and they see you as an example of the kind of people involved with vintage computers. Then they email me. I give them whatever info I can to help them but they usually end up volunteering a few comments about you. I'm sure this thread will generate a number of new emails like this over the next few months. Perhaps I should save them and post them here. Do you really want to know the kind of impression you are giving thousands of people interested in vintage computers? I'll be glad to show you. I think you might be surprized at who some of the people are and what they had to say about your previous posts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:50 AM Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > > Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym. > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. > > > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips. > > We just don't > > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts". > > I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in the bottom of a > drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 or some handheld). > But even then, collectors don't throw their computers in the bottom of a > drawer. > > > I could not > > count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were > > displayed > > loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's > > shop. > > Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash > > than into some > > chip collectors collection? > > Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But we aren't talking about > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards > for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond > within the context (no straw men here). > > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from > > the face > > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. > > Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of a board that is now > gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what happened to that > Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the CPU? > > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like > > saying > > a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than > > in some > > collectors collection. > > If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. By removing the chip > from a computer it once powered or helped work, you are removing it from > its historical context. From a hobbyists point of view, you are taking > something that once worked, removing one part of it that will make it > unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now non-functioning, part over > the whole in which it once ran. > > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare" > > varieties > > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage > > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would > > probably > > be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. > > Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel C8080 either, when a > C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative sample, right? Unless > you have a cereal box prize mentality and must "collect all 8!" > > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > > collectors are > > out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips > > out of > > them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same > > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are > > worth. > > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for > > chips. > > What happened to that Altair CPU board? > > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > > that have > > been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were. > > Examples? What happened to the chips? > > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > > in > > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because > > as the > > word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will > > end up > > in the trash. > > You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down the road will be > willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part of his amazing > collection of dead silicon. Because in all likelihood that's what it will > be anyway: dead. > > > that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That > > said, > > we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and > > should > > be preserved. > > And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors because we have whole > computers full of them. > > > Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a > > working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned > > this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts > > have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I believe this is your > opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining any sympathy. > > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > > keep your > > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and > > entire > > your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off > > by your > > attitudes toward chip collectors. > > Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been turned off by the > comments on this list. Now name all the chip collectors you steered away > from this list because you feel we are biased against chip collectors. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From at258 at osfn.org Sat Nov 16 11:26:01 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <01bd01c28d94$02167e60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I would guess much earlier than that, maybe 1990. I do recall seeing figures like that on one site, but I have no idea which one it was. On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > Anybody know when we passed the point where 300M computers were > produced in the US, one per man-woman-child? My guess: 1997. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jim at jkearney.com Sat Nov 16 11:43:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <00fe01c28d97$cc472d30$1001090a@xpace.net> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards > for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond Sellam, I don't really think this happens very frequently. I watch the chip auctions on eBay closely because I sell some there occasionally (gasp!), and the majority of ICs there are rescued from some drawer or old inventory. The fact is that working equipment is usually more valuable than the chip alone, except in rare cases like that C8080. And a lot of equipment that contained these chips is either already broken up or of little historical value. Personally, I've never sold a "pull" from a working (or interesting) board. They've all been from trashed industrial controllers or the like. What's more, a lot of dealers are essentially aggregating buys from the NOS stock dealers, who basically hold old chips for ransom, so those chips are then available for vintage hobbyist use. You probably didn't see it on eBay, but I recently designed a new 8008-based SBC. I sold a bunch of kits without the CPU, many to those same collectors you think aren't interested in using their silicon. I suppose that any chip being sold helps build a market, but that's not going to go away because of disapproval here. Better to try and channel the interest in the chips and their history past the "sitting in a box" stage, I think, which was one of my motivations for the 8008 project. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Sat Nov 16 11:46:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <002b01c28d96$0e67ce10$0100a8c0@sys1> References: <002b01c28d96$0e67ce10$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <20021116174750.GD3136412@uiuc.edu> John, Sellam sure doesn't speak for all of us. Just because he's being an ass, doesn't mean we're all hostile to all chip collectors... Just the ones who have no respect for OUR hobby, as you seem to be hostile to Sellam because he has no respect for yours. John Galt said: > The Altair board I bought because it contained an Intel C8080 CPU is > currently in my collection waiting on the day I obtain an Altair 8800 that > does not have an original > CPU board that I can restore back to original condition. Surprized? > > I've actually bid on a number of Altair 8800's on EBAY but have not won one > yet. > > What would I do with an Altair 8800? I'm not sure. I would like to have > one > simply for it's historic value but there's no way in hell I would hang out > with > people like you if that's what it took to restore it to working order. > Sellam, you > come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage computer > community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your > hobby. > > That said, I'm sure you are a brilliant dude and you probably think you are > doing > what's best for your hobby but I think you are going about it in the wrong > way. > > Let me give you an example. "People" (lots of them), from kids doing book > reports, to chip collectors search the net looking for information on early > processors. What do they find? They find these threads on this forum and > they see you as an example of the kind of people involved with vintage > computers. > > Then they email me. I give them whatever info I can to help them but they > usually end up volunteering a few comments about you. I'm sure this thread > will generate a number > of new emails like this over the next few months. Perhaps I should save > them and > post them here. Do you really want to know the kind of impression you are > giving thousands of people interested in vintage computers? I'll be glad to > show you. I think you might be surprized at who some of the people are and > what > they had to say about your previous posts. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:50 AM > Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > > > > > > Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym. > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my > hobby. > > > > > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their > chips. > > > We just don't > > > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer > enthusiasts". > > > > I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in the bottom of a > > drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 or some handheld). > > But even then, collectors don't throw their computers in the bottom of a > > drawer. > > > > > I could not > > > count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were > > > displayed > > > loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's > > > shop. > > > Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash > > > than into some > > > chip collectors collection? > > > > Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But we aren't talking about > > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards > > for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond > > within the context (no straw men here). > > > > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone > from > > > the face > > > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. > > > > Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of a board that is now > > gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what happened to that > > Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the CPU? > > > > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is > like > > > saying > > > a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose > than > > > in some > > > collectors collection. > > > > If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. By removing the chip > > from a computer it once powered or helped work, you are removing it from > > its historical context. From a hobbyists point of view, you are taking > > something that once worked, removing one part of it that will make it > > unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now non-functioning, part over > > the whole in which it once ran. > > > > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are > "rare" > > > varieties > > > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. > Vintage > > > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you > would > > > probably > > > be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. > > > > Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel C8080 either, when a > > C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative sample, right? Unless > > you have a cereal box prize mentality and must "collect all 8!" > > > > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > > > collectors are > > > out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the > chips > > > out of > > > them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the > same > > > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines > are > > > worth. > > > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines > for > > > chips. > > > > What happened to that Altair CPU board? > > > > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage > machines > > > that have > > > been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they > were. > > > > Examples? What happened to the chips? > > > > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage > machines > > > in > > > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on > EBAY > > > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is > because > > > as the > > > word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them > will > > > end up > > > in the trash. > > > > You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down the road will be > > willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part of his amazing > > collection of dead silicon. Because in all likelihood that's what it will > > be anyway: dead. > > > > > that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. > That > > > said, > > > we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and > > > should > > > be preserved. > > > > And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors because we have whole > > computers full of them. > > > > > Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a > > > working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have > abandoned > > > this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer > enthusiasts > > > have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > > > Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I believe this is your > > opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining any sympathy. > > > > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need > to > > > keep your > > > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try > and > > > entire > > > your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned > off > > > by your > > > attitudes toward chip collectors. > > > > Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been turned off by the > > comments on this list. Now name all the chip collectors you steered away > > from this list because you feel we are biased against chip collectors. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sat Nov 16 11:52:08 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> FYI... If anyone is interested in the Altair 8800 CPU board that Sellam seems to think I took a hammer or a soldering iron to... It's for sale (I will pull the Intel C8080 and replace it with an extra like new Intel C8080A). Don't know if the board works (neither did the guy I bought it from) but it looks to be in excellent original condition. The board is marked 8800 CPU BD REV 0. It looks just like the one in the Altair 8800 currently on EBAY except that it has smaller tan colored caps instead of the larger green ones on the board on EBAY. Like I said I had planned on using it to restore an Altair 8800 back to original condition since many of them don't have the original boards in them. If you are interested send me an email and make me an offer. I can send you a pic of the board. I'll think I'll stick to chip collecting:) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:50 AM Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > > Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym. > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby. > > > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips. > > We just don't > > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts". > > I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in the bottom of a > drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 or some handheld). > But even then, collectors don't throw their computers in the bottom of a > drawer. > > > I could not > > count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were > > displayed > > loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's > > shop. > > Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash > > than into some > > chip collectors collection? > > Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But we aren't talking about > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working boards > for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least respond > within the context (no straw men here). > > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from > > the face > > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations. > > Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of a board that is now > gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what happened to that > Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the CPU? > > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like > > saying > > a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than > > in some > > collectors collection. > > If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. By removing the chip > from a computer it once powered or helped work, you are removing it from > its historical context. From a hobbyists point of view, you are taking > something that once worked, removing one part of it that will make it > unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now non-functioning, part over > the whole in which it once ran. > > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare" > > varieties > > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage > > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would > > probably > > be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A. > > Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel C8080 either, when a > C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative sample, right? Unless > you have a cereal box prize mentality and must "collect all 8!" > > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > > collectors are > > out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips > > out of > > them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same > > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are > > worth. > > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for > > chips. > > What happened to that Altair CPU board? > > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > > that have > > been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were. > > Examples? What happened to the chips? > > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > > in > > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because > > as the > > word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will > > end up > > in the trash. > > You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down the road will be > willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part of his amazing > collection of dead silicon. Because in all likelihood that's what it will > be anyway: dead. > > > that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That > > said, > > we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and > > should > > be preserved. > > And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors because we have whole > computers full of them. > > > Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a > > working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned > > this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts > > have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I believe this is your > opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining any sympathy. > > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > > keep your > > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and > > entire > > your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off > > by your > > attitudes toward chip collectors. > > Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been turned off by the > comments on this list. Now name all the chip collectors you steered away > from this list because you feel we are biased against chip collectors. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 16 12:32:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my > hobby. Too bad you can't do a better job of it. > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their > chips. We just don't throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some > "computer enthusiasts". I could not count the times that I've bought > chips on EBAY auctions that were displayed loose in a coffee can from > someone who had found them in grandpa's shop. Do you really think these > chips are better off going in the trash than into some chip collectors > collection? Ya know, I've just about had it with all the "chip collectors" and their myths, fairy tales, and outright lies. It seems many will say damned near anything to justify their "hobby". I think it is downright disgusting how most chip collectors are perfectly content to destroy a hard to find board or even a complete system in order to grab that ultra **RARE** chip to add to their "collection". Personally, if I were to acquire a chip collectors prized chip collection, I'd think nothing of testing and stocking the parts into my parts cabinets/inventory, ready for reuse in repairing another old computer. Oh, and for any "chip collectors"^Wvultures lurking on the list, I have a tube of NOS Intel 8008s that I bought at a very reasonable price, which are ready for use in a Mark-8 or other 8008 based computer when I get around to building one. If I ever had to part with them, I'd rather give them away to someone who wanted to build something with them instead of selling them to a "chip collector", even if they could fetch $100-200/ea. > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone > from the face of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future > generations. Bullshit. In 3-5 years, many will likely be in a landfill somewhere. In the case of the younger chip collectors (the number of which seem to be growing at an alarming rate), their parents, not knowing what the chips might be worth to someone, will end up dumping the whole lot in the bin when the kid goes away to college and such. I also don't consider styrofoam a good way to "carefully preserve" those **RARE** chips. And if you think anti-static foam is any better, just you wait 3-5 years, and you'll see the stuff will have damaged the leads of the chips, due to chemicals released during the aging and decomposition of that foam. Aluminum foil is just as bad, as it causes a reaction with the copper/tin/gold leads, which leads to corrosion. The only safe ways to store chips long term is either in anti-static tubes (so much for those "display cases"), or in pc boards safely tucked away inside a system. > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is > like saying a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" > purpose than in some collectors collection. You just love comparing Apples to Oranges don't you? Lets see if I can create an analogy like yours... How about flowering plants? Are you saying someone would be better off having a drawer full of seed packets instead of a flowerbed full of flowers? > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are > "rare" varieties of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. > C8080A. Vintage computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In > fact, you would probably be better off with the more common and > "improved" C8080A. Ah, but what of the computer designs that make use of or work around those very "flaws" in the earlier chips? Those systems will not function the same with an "improved" chip in place of the original **RARE** part. > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > collectors are out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to > get the chips out of them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors > hang out on in the same areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well > what rare machines are worth. I'll assure you, chip collectors are not > breaking up old machines for chips. So what did happen to that Altair CPU board? ;) > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > that have been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what > they were. Oh yeah? Since you know of a number of them, name them. I'd sure as hell like to know of a few "chip collectors" that have some common sense. > 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without > chip collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips. > Sure you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also > have people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not > worth listing on EBAY. If there were far more chips than vintage computers, "chip collectors" would not be searching out old computer boards to steal chips from. If the chips were more common than the computers they make up, "chip collectors" would have no trouble sourcing the parts they desire for their "collection"... Hrm, doesn't that defeat the purpose of collecting chips, if they are not **RARE**? > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > in 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because as > the word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them > will end up in the trash. I seriously doubt most "chip collections" will be around in 20-30 years, since most of the collectors seem to be of the younger generations, who will outgrow their hobby as they move on to college and such. Too bad they will have scavenged those **RARE** chips from an average of 3-10 computers first... > 7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay > for them from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not > sell small quantities. I have sold spare chips out of my collection to > vintage computer enthusiasts. Most collectors have "spares" that they > acquire for trading. If you need a particular chip, changes are good > that you can get one from a collector if you offer the collector some > other chip that you have several of. Again, bullshit. I bought my i8008 CPUs from a parts distributor. They couldn't have cared less if the chip was potentially worth $100+, as those chips had been in their inventory for nearly 20 years. If anything, eBay and "chip collectors" are the causes for driving up prices to insane levels. I'd be willing to bet there are number of "chip collectors" out there who are sitting on 100-1000+ stocks of old CPUs such as the i4004 and i8008, that they bought off a distributor, and are waiting to sell them off one at a time. > 8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to > pay $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip collectors > collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords, chips that > vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway. The serious collectors I think I'd be less worried about. Any serious collector who is considering paying $500-$1000 for a chip likely already has a fair collection of older computers, complete with some **RARE** chips, so they'd be less likely to scavenge a board for a part. The younger "chip collectors" who think nothing of pulling those **RARE** chips from a perfectly good board are the ones who worry me. > The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips > routinely bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is > that it's the same group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. > If the handful of serious chip collectors were to each obtain an example > of every chip every made, it would not have much effect at all on the > ability of vintage computer enthusiasts to obtain replacement parts for > your machines. If you want to blame someone for the high price of > vintage chips, blame the people who melted down millions of them for > their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful of serious chip > collectors. Most chips don't have that much gold content, so your logic here is flawed. I think if you did some research, you'd find that many, many more chips were tossed into landfills than were crushed for their precious metal content. > 9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" > than a chip in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over > the vintage machines that you guys have and not because of the chips in > them either. That said, we also recognize that the chips themselves > have historic value and should be preserved. Many chip collectors would > like to one day obtain a working vintage machine but I know more than a > few who have abandoned this idea once they figured out that many vintage > computer enthusiasts have such a negative view of chip collectors. It seems like functional systems are typically easier to find than the chips that they are made of (unless the chips are scavenged). > That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage > computer collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of > new faces into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't > see that happening any time soon. Honestly, I don't see how that is. The individual chips are harder to come by than complete systems. I think some people get into "chip collecting" simply because they either don't know how to bring an old system back to operational condition, or simply don't care to. > What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters" that > came along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of > components. Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they > build them from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very > concept of of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because > their machines are constantly changing. The current generation of PC computer enthusiasts don't build systems from components. They build systems from boards, which are often made very cheaply in poor countries. If individual components and information were more readily available, and if the younger generation could be taught to see past that "upgrade or be left behind" marketing, I believe more of them would be building small computers made from lightweight CPUs and logic chips. > That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their > collections are old CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines > over the years. You bring up chip collecting and they say that's pretty > cool, I already have a small collection. Again, due to that "upgrade or be left behind" brainwashing... > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > keep your hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will > try and entire your world from the world of chip collecting and be > totally turned off by your attitudes toward chip collectors. What classic computing needs is a new generation of hardware hackers and tinkers, not "chip collectors". A true hardware hacker or tinker will understand the value of an older computer, whereas most chips collectors do not. BTW, learn to format your emails. -Toth From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 16 12:34:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <005b01c28d9e$e8eb9e60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> John G., I would agree that you should make effort to format your eMails. JA From marvin at rain.org Sat Nov 16 12:53:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <3DD69448.805B400C@rain.org> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my > > hobby. > > Too bad you can't do a better job of it. BTW, this is not only directed to you but *everyone* who is contributing nothing but emotional gripes; GET A LIFE. John has contributed some valuable information and seems to have a handle on the chip collecting side of things. Lets take advantage of his knowledge rather than trying to piss him off because of your personal problems. Damn, this gets tiring seeing people gripe rather than offer constructive comments. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Nov 16 13:00:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021116190206.92861.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> I don't understand what the controversy is here. I have a small chip collection, and I build working computers out of many of these older chips. From scratch, with wire wrap. Both hobbies have historical and educational value. What is the point of collecting, anyway? I suppose part of it might be "lust and greed" (I have it and you don't, I have 20 and you have 10) but another important part is sharing the history of the chip or machines with others. You can do these things with chips or with computers. Personally, I can't afford the former, and I enjoy the latter more anyway. I've taken probably working boards, removed chips, and either sold them, displayed them, or used them to build other machines with. None of these boards were of incredible historical or irreplaceable value. One thing you have to say about chip collecting is that it takes up a lot less SPACE than collecting computers! --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym. > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a > moment to defend my hobby. > > > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about > protecting their chips. > > We just don't > > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like > some "computer enthusiasts". > > I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in > the bottom of a > drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81 > or some handheld). > But even then, collectors don't throw their > computers in the bottom of a > drawer. > > > I could not > > count the times that I've bought chips on > EBAY auctions that were > > displayed > > loose in a coffee can from someone who had > found them in grandpa's > > shop. > > Do you really think these chips are better > off going in the trash > > than into some > > chip collectors collection? > > Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But > we aren't talking about > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about > pillaging working boards > for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, > at least respond > within the context (no straw men here). > > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors > collection it's not gone from > > the face > > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for > future generations. > > Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of > a board that is now > gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what > happened to that > Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the > CPU? > > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside > a vintage computer is like > > saying > > a coin is better off in circulation serving > its "intended" purpose than > > in some > > collectors collection. > > If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is. > By removing the chip > from a computer it once powered or helped work, you > are removing it from > its historical context. From a hobbyists point of > view, you are taking > something that once worked, removing one part of it > that will make it > unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now > non-functioning, part over > the whole in which it once ran. > > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay > alot of money for are "rare" > > varieties > > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel > C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage > > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel > C8080. In fact, you would > > probably > > be better off with the more common and > "improved" C8080A. > > Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel > C8080 either, when a > C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative > sample, right? Unless > you have a cereal box prize mentality and must > "collect all 8!" > > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer > enthusiasts think that chip > > collectors are > > out there busting up Altair 8800's with > sledge hammers to get the chips > > out of > > them. That's simply not true. Chip > collectors hang out on in the same > > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well > what rare machines are > > worth. > > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not > breaking up old machines for > > chips. > > What happened to that Altair CPU board? > > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a > number of vintage machines > > that have > > been "saved" by chip collectors because they > recognized what they were. > > Examples? What happened to the chips? > > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips > for your vintage machines > > in > > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a > C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > > because of chip collectors. The reason you > should be glad is because > > as the > > word gets out that the early chips are worth > money, less of them will > > end up > > in the trash. > > You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down > the road will be > willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part > of his amazing > collection of dead silicon. Because in all > likelihood that's what it will > be anyway: dead. > > > that you guys have and not because of the > chips in them either. That > > said, > > we also recognize that the chips themselves > have historic value and > > should > > be preserved. > > And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors > because we have whole > computers full of them. > > > Many chip collectors would like to one day > obtain a > > working vintage machine but I know more than > a few who have abandoned > > this idea once they figured out that many > vintage computer enthusiasts > > have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I > believe this is your > opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining > any sympathy. > > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the > very people you need to > > keep your > > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the > same people will try and > > entire > > your world from the world of chip collecting > and be totally turned off > > by your > > attitudes toward chip collectors. > > Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been > turned off by the > comments on this list. Now name all the chip > collectors you steered away > from this list because you feel we are biased > against chip collectors. > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Nov 16 13:03:00 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:55 2005 Subject: It's a good thing :) Message-ID: <3DD69684.C476C6D3@attbi.com> This is a recent email exchange ...... Someone from titanplasticsgroup.com wrote to me: >> I was just going through a bunch of files/prints >> that we are throwing away. >> They are velum hand drawn prints for the Heath >> Co. Want them? Know anyone who might? I answered: > The Heath Co. made many wonderful kits over the > the years. Kits that became a part of many people's > lifes. Of course, most of these people have a favorite > category - Ham radio equipment, test equipment, > computers, home automation, robots, the company itself, > etc. > I am most interested in Heathkit computer related > information. But even if this is not the case, I can > most certainly find and donate it a good home, where > it would be very appreciated. > If you want to send these files to me I can pay the > shipping depending on the amount of material you have. > Thank you for your effort to save this material from > being thrown away. They replied: >> Wow! You guys are passionate about this stuff. I sent >> this email to other people as well. One collector of >> those kits drove up from Benton Harbor (only about an >> hr away) and has already taken them. I thought he was >> going to cry when he saw the prints. Sorry! I replied: > Thanks for finding it a good home. > Many people started a life-long love of electronics with > a Heathkit. And many people were able to pass their > love of electronics down to their children with Heathkits. > So when you find something that reminds you of the > excitement of your youth or time you spent with a parent > to built something together, it becomes a treasured possession. It made me feel great to think that someone would take the time to make old internal files like this available to collectors. Have nice day :) ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sat Nov 16 13:17:10 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <001401c28da5$e3582480$0100a8c0@sys1> Man! And I thought Sellam was a hard ass. Toth, there's no point in responding to your flames. I'm not interested in a flame war. But I will say this. I get emails from teenagers who collect "old" chips (286's, 386's, 486's, etc) all the time. Some become more serious collectors and some don't. Sometimes their collections do get dumped in the dumpster when they go off to college. These are not the collectors paying $500 for a rare chips. I do try and encourage them and give them information on how to preserve their chips and properly store them and display them. Yes, I buy chips all the time on EBAY where the pins have turned black because the anti-static foam they were in has "melted". Fortunately, there's new anti-static foam out now that does not do this. It's the same as the PVC "slips" that coins collectors used to use. They were turning coins green. Now they have new slips that don't do this to coins just like they now have anti-static foam that does not melt. I could go on and on but it's a waste of time trying to educate someone like you. JA - I'm trying to stay under 80 bytes but it's still fragmenting my replies. Will see how this one goes. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my > > hobby. > > Too bad you can't do a better job of it. > > > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their > > chips. We just don't throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some > > "computer enthusiasts". I could not count the times that I've bought > > chips on EBAY auctions that were displayed loose in a coffee can from > > someone who had found them in grandpa's shop. Do you really think these > > chips are better off going in the trash than into some chip collectors > > collection? > > Ya know, I've just about had it with all the "chip collectors" and their > myths, fairy tales, and outright lies. It seems many will say damned near > anything to justify their "hobby". I think it is downright disgusting how > most chip collectors are perfectly content to destroy a hard to find board > or even a complete system in order to grab that ultra **RARE** chip to add > to their "collection". Personally, if I were to acquire a chip collectors > prized chip collection, I'd think nothing of testing and stocking the > parts into my parts cabinets/inventory, ready for reuse in repairing > another old computer. Oh, and for any "chip collectors"^Wvultures lurking > on the list, I have a tube of NOS Intel 8008s that I bought at a very > reasonable price, which are ready for use in a Mark-8 or other 8008 based > computer when I get around to building one. If I ever had to part with > them, I'd rather give them away to someone who wanted to build something > with them instead of selling them to a "chip collector", even if they > could fetch $100-200/ea. > > > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone > > from the face of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future > > generations. > > Bullshit. In 3-5 years, many will likely be in a landfill somewhere. In > the case of the younger chip collectors (the number of which seem to be > growing at an alarming rate), their parents, not knowing what the chips > might be worth to someone, will end up dumping the whole lot in the bin > when the kid goes away to college and such. > > I also don't consider styrofoam a good way to "carefully preserve" those > **RARE** chips. And if you think anti-static foam is any better, just you > wait 3-5 years, and you'll see the stuff will have damaged the leads of > the chips, due to chemicals released during the aging and decomposition of > that foam. Aluminum foil is just as bad, as it causes a reaction with the > copper/tin/gold leads, which leads to corrosion. The only safe ways to > store chips long term is either in anti-static tubes (so much for those > "display cases"), or in pc boards safely tucked away inside a system. > > > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is > > like saying a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" > > purpose than in some collectors collection. > > You just love comparing Apples to Oranges don't you? Lets see if I can > create an analogy like yours... How about flowering plants? Are you saying > someone would be better off having a drawer full of seed packets instead > of a flowerbed full of flowers? > > > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are > > "rare" varieties of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. > > C8080A. Vintage computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In > > fact, you would probably be better off with the more common and > > "improved" C8080A. > > Ah, but what of the computer designs that make use of or work around those > very "flaws" in the earlier chips? Those systems will not function the > same with an "improved" chip in place of the original **RARE** part. > > > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip > > collectors are out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to > > get the chips out of them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors > > hang out on in the same areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well > > what rare machines are worth. I'll assure you, chip collectors are not > > breaking up old machines for chips. > > So what did happen to that Altair CPU board? ;) > > > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines > > that have been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what > > they were. > > Oh yeah? Since you know of a number of them, name them. I'd sure as hell > like to know of a few "chip collectors" that have some common sense. > > > 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without > > chip collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips. > > Sure you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also > > have people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not > > worth listing on EBAY. > > If there were far more chips than vintage computers, "chip collectors" > would not be searching out old computer boards to steal chips from. If the > chips were more common than the computers they make up, "chip collectors" > would have no trouble sourcing the parts they desire for their > "collection"... Hrm, doesn't that defeat the purpose of collecting chips, > if they are not **RARE**? > > > If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines > > in 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY > > because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because as > > the word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them > > will end up in the trash. > > I seriously doubt most "chip collections" will be around in 20-30 years, > since most of the collectors seem to be of the younger generations, who > will outgrow their hobby as they move on to college and such. Too bad they > will have scavenged those **RARE** chips from an average of 3-10 computers > first... > > > 7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay > > for them from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not > > sell small quantities. I have sold spare chips out of my collection to > > vintage computer enthusiasts. Most collectors have "spares" that they > > acquire for trading. If you need a particular chip, changes are good > > that you can get one from a collector if you offer the collector some > > other chip that you have several of. > > Again, bullshit. I bought my i8008 CPUs from a parts distributor. They > couldn't have cared less if the chip was potentially worth $100+, as those > chips had been in their inventory for nearly 20 years. If anything, eBay > and "chip collectors" are the causes for driving up prices to insane > levels. I'd be willing to bet there are number of "chip collectors" out > there who are sitting on 100-1000+ stocks of old CPUs such as the i4004 > and i8008, that they bought off a distributor, and are waiting to sell > them off one at a time. > > > 8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to > > pay $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip collectors > > collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords, chips that > > vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway. > > The serious collectors I think I'd be less worried about. Any serious > collector who is considering paying $500-$1000 for a chip likely already > has a fair collection of older computers, complete with some **RARE** > chips, so they'd be less likely to scavenge a board for a part. The > younger "chip collectors" who think nothing of pulling those **RARE** > chips from a perfectly good board are the ones who worry me. > > > The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips > > routinely bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is > > that it's the same group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. > > If the handful of serious chip collectors were to each obtain an example > > of every chip every made, it would not have much effect at all on the > > ability of vintage computer enthusiasts to obtain replacement parts for > > your machines. If you want to blame someone for the high price of > > vintage chips, blame the people who melted down millions of them for > > their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful of serious chip > > collectors. > > Most chips don't have that much gold content, so your logic here is > flawed. I think if you did some research, you'd find that many, many more > chips were tossed into landfills than were crushed for their precious > metal content. > > > 9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" > > than a chip in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over > > the vintage machines that you guys have and not because of the chips in > > them either. That said, we also recognize that the chips themselves > > have historic value and should be preserved. Many chip collectors would > > like to one day obtain a working vintage machine but I know more than a > > few who have abandoned this idea once they figured out that many vintage > > computer enthusiasts have such a negative view of chip collectors. > > It seems like functional systems are typically easier to find than the > chips that they are made of (unless the chips are scavenged). > > > That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage > > computer collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of > > new faces into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't > > see that happening any time soon. > > Honestly, I don't see how that is. The individual chips are harder to come > by than complete systems. I think some people get into "chip collecting" > simply because they either don't know how to bring an old system back to > operational condition, or simply don't care to. > > > What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters" that > > came along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of > > components. Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they > > build them from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very > > concept of of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because > > their machines are constantly changing. > > The current generation of PC computer enthusiasts don't build systems from > components. They build systems from boards, which are often made very > cheaply in poor countries. If individual components and information were > more readily available, and if the younger generation could be taught to > see past that "upgrade or be left behind" marketing, I believe more of > them would be building small computers made from lightweight CPUs and > logic chips. > > > That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their > > collections are old CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines > > over the years. You bring up chip collecting and they say that's pretty > > cool, I already have a small collection. > > Again, due to that "upgrade or be left behind" brainwashing... > > > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to > > keep your hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will > > try and entire your world from the world of chip collecting and be > > totally turned off by your attitudes toward chip collectors. > > What classic computing needs is a new generation of hardware hackers and > tinkers, not "chip collectors". A true hardware hacker or tinker will > understand the value of an older computer, whereas most chips collectors > do not. > > BTW, learn to format your emails. > > -Toth > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Nov 16 13:19:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Chip collecting (was Re: Promoting Classic Computers ...) In-Reply-To: <00fe01c28d97$cc472d30$1001090a@xpace.net> References: <00fe01c28d97$cc472d30$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <32790.64.169.63.74.1037474400.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Sellam Ismail" wrote: > loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about pillaging working > boards for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread, at least > respond "Jim Kearney" wrote: > Sellam, I don't really think this happens very frequently. Hard to say, but I think it happens fairly frequently. I was visiting a DEC reseller in the vicinity of Chicago a few months ago, and he was talking about selling a big pile of a particular DEC module to someone for $50 each. Then he mentioned that the person only wanted one chip from the board, so he was throwing away the rest. It's pretty clear that the buyer wasn't using the chips for repairs -- I suspect they've slowly been showing up on eBay. I was aggravated because this particular module is very useful and not particularly easy to find. However, if there wasn't a chip collectors buying up the chips, the intact modules wouldn't be that expensive. The reseller said he formerly sold the modules for only $15-20. At that price I could have bought a bunch of the modules for spares for myself, and even made them available in the future to other people who needed them, but I can't afford to do that at $50 each. From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Nov 16 13:20:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few things for the record... > And if you think anti-static foam is any better, just you > wait 3-5 years, and you'll see the stuff will have damaged the leads of > the chips, due to chemicals released during the aging and decomposition of > that foam. This depends *entirely* on the quality of the foam. I have had some foam that deteriorated in a couple of years, and some that I still use after almost 20 years, with no significant effect on chips in storage. Also, foam is easily replaced. > The only safe ways to > store chips long term is either in anti-static tubes (so much for those > "display cases"), or in pc boards safely tucked away inside a system. Keeping a chip in a working system will degrade its life (thermal and electrical stress, sometimes extreme in a crummy design). > Ah, but what of the computer designs that make use of or work around those > very "flaws" in the earlier chips? Those systems will not function the > same with an "improved" chip in place of the original **RARE** part. This is indeed a very good point. Some of us are very interested in having all of the chips original, and replacements "proper" to manuafacturer and datecodes, as it tells a story about the manufacturing. > I seriously doubt most "chip collections" will be around in 20-30 years, > since most of the collectors seem to be of the younger generations, who > will outgrow their hobby as they move on to college and such. They said this about the tube collectors, and those collecting pocket transistor radios. They were wrong, in a pretty big way. > Most chips don't have that much gold content, so your logic here is > flawed. I think if you did some research, you'd find that many, many more > chips were tossed into landfills than were crushed for their precious > metal content. I think that most people on this list really have no idea about the precious metals content of chips. It is surpisingly high. Take a look at: http://www.mrsscrap.com/scrapvalue.html Keep in mind that these approximate values are for today's scrap, not stuff from 20 years ago. Back then, things were actually much better (that is, thicker gold plate). Those gold 8080s were certainly worth plucking out of sockets. Even the plastic DIPs, like lowly 7400 series stuff, was worth removing in quantity. Still is, in fact. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Nov 16 13:39:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: It's a good thing :) References: <3DD69684.C476C6D3@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> Doug Coward wrote: > This is a recent email exchange ...... > > Someone from titanplasticsgroup.com wrote to me: > >>>I was just going through a bunch of files/prints >>>that we are throwing away. >>>They are velum hand drawn prints for the Heath >>>Co. Want them? Know anyone who might? >> > I answered: > >> The Heath Co. made many wonderful kits over the >>the years. Kits that became a part of many people's >>lifes. Of course, most of these people have a favorite >>category - Ham radio equipment, test equipment, >>computers, home automation, robots, the company itself, >>etc. >> I am most interested in Heathkit computer related >>information. But even if this is not the case, I can >>most certainly find and donate it a good home, where >>it would be very appreciated. >> If you want to send these files to me I can pay the >>shipping depending on the amount of material you have. >> Thank you for your effort to save this material from >>being thrown away. > > They replied: > >>>Wow! You guys are passionate about this stuff. I sent >>>this email to other people as well. One collector of >>>those kits drove up from Benton Harbor (only about an >>>hr away) and has already taken them. I thought he was >>>going to cry when he saw the prints. Sorry! >> > I replied: > >> Thanks for finding it a good home. >> Many people started a life-long love of electronics with >>a Heathkit. And many people were able to pass their >>love of electronics down to their children with Heathkits. >>So when you find something that reminds you of the >>excitement of your youth or time you spent with a parent >>to built something together, it becomes a treasured possession. > > > It made me feel great to think that someone > would take the time to make old internal files > like this available to collectors. Grab old Audio ( often tube/valve) stuff too. That information too is quite useful. A lot of good old tube/valve amps are out there but need lots of TLC to get back into shape. BTW I found out one reason using ordinary water may or may not work for cleaning PCB's. The chlorine in water will distroy electrolytic caps if it gets inside the seal. PS. Can anybody a 2 3/4 x 3 3/4 inch single sided PCB board from a PDF layout for a resonable price? I would like to upgrade ( read use new ) capacitors in a vintage amp and can't do the pcb upgrade here. PS. Vintage audio is fun too. Ben. From jim at jkearney.com Sat Nov 16 14:26:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <01ce01c28dae$82c9bbc0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "William Donzelli" > I think that most people on this list really have no idea about the > precious metals content of chips. It is surpisingly high. Take a look > at: http://www.mrsscrap.com/scrapvalue.html Now, this will make you cry: Gold Sidebraze and Flatpaks $15.00-$75.00 per pound These guys are defintely on the side of Darkness, so I'm gonna say _anyone_ who's keeping old ICs out of the furnace is on my side. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 16 15:17:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Simple C compiler advice? In-Reply-To: <003701c28d2a$aab310c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > John, > > If your laptop is running Windows, then the easiest way to compile > everything is with the Mingw compiler. Just install Mingw (one time > deal) and then there's a batch file distributed with the SIMH source to > compile all the binaries. Pretty much automated (except that you have to > make a "bin" directory, the batch file doesn't make it, and if you > don't, it will "look" like everything is compiling but you'll get no > executables!) I'm replying to the list in case anyone else is starting down this Road. I downloaded (12.2MB) MinGW and extracted it, all okay. But: Make a "bin" directory... where? I made one in the PDP11 folder, MinGW has one in it's tree, but, as you said, executing the batch file makes a lot of stuff happen, but no executable is in evidence. I located MinGW in the simulations folder, and altered the 'path' statement in the batch file to point to it... that much seems to work fine. Also, I rem'ed out all the other simulators in the batch file, leaving just the path statement and the PDP11 simulator active. Now if I can just locate all these files I'm supposedly generating. ;} Well, I'm learning... TIA All... John From dtwright at uiuc.edu Sat Nov 16 15:56:01 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021116215742.GA2939136@uiuc.edu> On this subject, anyone know what needs to be done with non-nicad laptop batteries? I have a DEC HiNote ultra II with a bad Li-Ion battery pack that I'd like to rejuvenate, but I have no idea how to do so and I suspect that the same zapping technique as recommended for nicads won't do the trick... Joe said: > At 09:05 AM 11/15/02 -0600, Gary wrote: > >Lawrence Walker wrote: > >> > >> This has come up before but I can't remember it being resolved. > >> I often see suggestions for rejuvenating failed or dying laptop batteries using > >> a hi-amp source to flash them and break down the built-up crystals. > > > >What really happens is that minute 'hairs' grow from terminal to > >terminal in the cell, effectively shorting it out. To remove them > >requires a flash of current to 'burn' them out. Either a high current > >source (10A or more) or a large capacitor discharged into the cell does > >the job. > > I have used an automobile battery to "zap" them. Shorting a NiCad to an auto battery for just a split second usually burns out the whiskers. HOEVER the fix usually doesn't last long. One of things that happens when the whiskers grow and short the electrodes is that they also pucture the membrane that separates the electrodes. Once that happens, the battery doesn't last long. ALSO zapping NiCads can can over-pressure and rupture the vent and possible spray out electrolyte (potassium hydroxide solution) if get them too hot. Not only is this an immediate hazard but it can also cause slow leaks that go unnoticed until the electrolyte eats up the circuits in the device that the batteries are installed in. > > I'm not saying not to zap your batteries. Zapping them is a great way to get them working again FOR A SHORT TERM. That will at least let you test the device to see if it works before investing money in new batteries. However just be aware of the dangers of zapping and DON'T leave the batteries in the device after you're done testing it. > > Joe > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 16 16:06:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: It's a good thing :) In-Reply-To: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DD66C23.27837.1987EBEF@localhost> IIRC you're in northern Alberta. You might try one of the Alberta Tech colleges (NATI ?) The better courses have workshops where burning PCBs is taught and some teachers welcome a chance to have their students practice the technique. I still have an 8-page handout on doing it using "Resist" from my time at George Brown in TO, which originated from Bishops Graphics, Inc I believe. Lawrence > PS. Can anybody a 2 3/4 x 3 3/4 inch single sided PCB board > from a PDF layout for a resonable price? I would like to upgrade > ( read use new ) capacitors in a vintage amp and can't do the > pcb upgrade here. > > PS. Vintage audio is fun too. > Ben. > > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 16:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <002b01c28d96$0e67ce10$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > Sellam, you come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the > vintage computer community can not find someone with a better bed side > manner to promote your hobby. There are hundreds of other representatives of this community to choose from. My opinions are mine and mine only. Let's get that straight, OK? > That said, I'm sure you are a brilliant dude and you probably think you > are doing what's best for your hobby but I think you are going about it > in the wrong way. Thanks, I'll take that into consideration. > Let me give you an example. "People" (lots of them), from kids doing book > reports, to chip collectors search the net looking for information on early > processors. What do they find? They find these threads on this forum and > they see you as an example of the kind of people involved with vintage > computers. This sounds completely contrived. > Then they email me. I give them whatever info I can to help them but > they usually end up volunteering a few comments about you. I'm sure this > thread will generate a number of new emails like this over the next few > months. Perhaps I should save them and post them here. Do you really > want to know the kind of impression you are giving thousands of people > interested in vintage computers? I'll be glad to show you. I think you > might be surprized at who some of the people are and what they had to > say about your previous posts. No, you can spare the list your drivel. You've made this accusation before and have offered "proof" but I've never seen it. Go ahead and e-mail it to me. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 16:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <00fe01c28d97$cc472d30$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > Sellam, I don't really think this happens very frequently. I watch the chip > auctions on eBay closely because I sell some there occasionally (gasp!), and > the majority of ICs there are rescued from some drawer or old inventory. I understand and find no problem with this at all. I'm merely responding to "John Galt"'s claims that the whole of the computer collecting community hates chip collectors. I won't go that far, but I will say that I personally find Mr. "Galt" to be a dweeb. > The fact is that working equipment is usually more valuable than the chip > alone, except in rare cases like that C8080. And a lot of equipment that > contained these chips is either already broken up or of little historical > value. Personally, I've never sold a "pull" from a working (or interesting) > board. They've all been from trashed industrial controllers or the like. That's fine. And even if you did, that's your perogative. I just don't agree with it, and I don't really think there is much room for tolerance of that sort of habit on this list. > I suppose that any chip being sold helps build a market, but that's not > going to go away because of disapproval here. Better to try and channel the > interest in the chips and their history past the "sitting in a box" stage, I > think, which was one of my motivations for the 8008 project. That's an excellent suggestion, and nothing I said should be construed as being anti-chip collector. In fact, I am not. It is this guy who goes around calling himself "John Galt" that is trying to give me that reputation. In fact, "John" inadvertently sent me an e-mail in which he gave an indication that he was going around smearing my name to folks as someone who detests chip collectors. He is surely confusing my contempt for him alone with condemnation for an entire community of hobbyists. Not that I should have to, but I will go on record right now to say that I find nothing wrong with collecting and preserving chips, AS LONG AS A MACHINE IS NOT DESTROYED IN THE PURSUIT OF THAT HOBBY (which is what I've been saying all along). I will not have "John Galt" twist my words any more. The next time I see his sorry ass impugning my reputation I will take action. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 16:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <3DD69448.805B400C@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > BTW, this is not only directed to you but *everyone* who is contributing > nothing but emotional gripes; GET A LIFE. John has contributed some > valuable information and seems to have a handle on the chip collecting > side of things. Lets take advantage of his knowledge rather than trying > to piss him off because of your personal problems. I'll respond to this by repeating what "John" said to me: It's a shame that the chip collector community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your hobby. He has something personal against me. He chose to use a public forum to attack me. Go tile the ocean. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Nov 16 16:55:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: It's a good thing :) References: <3DD66C23.27837.1987EBEF@localhost> Message-ID: <3DD6CCCB.7020904@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence Walker wrote: > IIRC you're in northern Alberta. You might try one of the Alberta > Tech colleges (NATI ?) The better courses have workshops where > burning PCBs is taught and some teachers welcome a chance to > have their students practice the technique. I still have an 8-page > handout on doing it using "Resist" from my time at George Brown in > TO, which originated from Bishops Graphics, Inc I believe. That would be a good idea if I lived in the city. Since I live a good 3 hour drive even getting to city is rare. Thanks again. > Lawrence Ben. From curt at atari-history.com Sat Nov 16 17:17:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <000f01c21583$7d0d2df0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> I completely respect Chip collectors, in fact it takes a higher order of interest, persistence and meticulous inventorying of chips then say Classic Computers since they are obviously (due to form factor) more difficult to track, locate and acquire in a pile, a desk drawer, cabinet or scrap-heap.... they also assist the collecting community as a whole when they go to the task to publishing their collection, along with technical data and photo's of the chips, making everyone's involvement and enjoyment that much more rich. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > > > Sellam, I don't really think this happens very frequently. I watch the chip > > auctions on eBay closely because I sell some there occasionally (gasp!), and > > the majority of ICs there are rescued from some drawer or old inventory. > > I understand and find no problem with this at all. I'm merely responding > to "John Galt"'s claims that the whole of the computer collecting > community hates chip collectors. I won't go that far, but I will say that > I personally find Mr. "Galt" to be a dweeb. > > > The fact is that working equipment is usually more valuable than the chip > > alone, except in rare cases like that C8080. And a lot of equipment that > > contained these chips is either already broken up or of little historical > > value. Personally, I've never sold a "pull" from a working (or interesting) > > board. They've all been from trashed industrial controllers or the like. > > That's fine. And even if you did, that's your perogative. I just don't > agree with it, and I don't really think there is much room for tolerance > of that sort of habit on this list. > > > I suppose that any chip being sold helps build a market, but that's not > > going to go away because of disapproval here. Better to try and channel the > > interest in the chips and their history past the "sitting in a box" stage, I > > think, which was one of my motivations for the 8008 project. > > That's an excellent suggestion, and nothing I said should be construed as > being anti-chip collector. In fact, I am not. It is this guy who goes > around calling himself "John Galt" that is trying to give me that > reputation. > > In fact, "John" inadvertently sent me an e-mail in which he gave an > indication that he was going around smearing my name to folks as someone > who detests chip collectors. He is surely confusing my contempt for > him alone with condemnation for an entire community of hobbyists. > > Not that I should have to, but I will go on record right now to say that I > find nothing wrong with collecting and preserving chips, AS LONG AS A > MACHINE IS NOT DESTROYED IN THE PURSUIT OF THAT HOBBY (which is what I've > been saying all along). > > I will not have "John Galt" twist my words any more. The next time I see > his sorry ass impugning my reputation I will take action. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sat Nov 16 17:29:15 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <006201c28dc9$1f8c5a70$0100a8c0@sys1> > "He has something personal against me". Remember your post on this forum that started this over a year ago when you refered to me as "the worlds biggest fool" for paying x$ on EBAY for a vintage chip? When you come out of the blue and start refering to people as "fools" for collecting chips, what do you expect chip collectors to think about your views on chip collecting? > He chose to use a public forum to attack me. See "worlds biggest fool post above" > "Twist your words"? I'm not twisting your words Sellam. I think you are just finding it hard to make your point with out sounding obnoxious and arrogant and others are noticing it. I think it's really fun watching you publically humiliate yourself. If I were you I would stop now before you humiliate yourself even more. Go have a cup of tea with Toth. I bet you two would really hit it off. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > BTW, this is not only directed to you but *everyone* who is contributing > > nothing but emotional gripes; GET A LIFE. John has contributed some > > valuable information and seems to have a handle on the chip collecting > > side of things. Lets take advantage of his knowledge rather than trying > > to piss him off because of your personal problems. > > I'll respond to this by repeating what "John" said to me: > > It's a shame that the chip collector community can not find someone with a > better bed side manner to promote your hobby. > > He has something personal against me. He chose to use a public forum to > attack me. Go tile the ocean. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 16 17:31:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> from "John Galt" at Nov 15, 2 11:08:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021116/7b8a3e5f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 16 17:32:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Nov 16, 2 01:27:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 876 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021116/2eaf0a9d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 16 17:32:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Nov 16, 2 12:36:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2830 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021116/303333a4/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 16 18:28:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? Message-ID: Well, having got the Simulated PDP11 running - my next untutored question is: sim> att rl ....filname??? sim> boot rl ....filename??? How does one get an OS loaded on the 'machine?' Cheers John From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 16 18:33:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C5E0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > How does one get an OS loaded on the 'machine?' > attach mt0 c:/dist/ultrix.tap > attach rl0 c:/dsk/rl02-0.dsk /RL02 > attach rl1 c:/dsk/rl02-1.dsk /RL02 loads the devices (a magtape unit, and two RL02 disks), and > boot mt0 or > boot rl0 should do the trick by booting the desired device. --fred From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 16 18:43:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <004601c28dd2$8ac04460$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hey, anybody on the list remember why I like Sellam? I'm starting to forget again. John A. The moral of this story is that life is sometimes like quicksand, you have to notice the times when the more you struggle the more you get in it instead of out of it. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 16 18:43:19 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C5E0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > How does one get an OS loaded on the 'machine?' > > > attach mt0 c:/dist/ultrix.tap > > attach rl0 c:/dsk/rl02-0.dsk /RL02 > > attach rl1 c:/dsk/rl02-1.dsk /RL02 The directory 'dsk', nor any files with the extent of '.dsk' do not exist anywhere I can find them... are they supposed to come with the SIMH stuff? Did I not download the whole package? Is there a separate 'software' section I didn't see? Curious minds.... John From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 16 18:50:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C5E1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> John, > > > How does one get an OS loaded on the 'machine?' > > > > > attach mt0 c:/dist/ultrix.tap > > > attach rl0 c:/dsk/rl02-0.dsk /RL02 > > > attach rl1 c:/dsk/rl02-1.dsk /RL02 > > The directory 'dsk', nor any files with the extent of '.dsk' do not > exist anywhere I can find them... are they supposed to come > with the SIMH > stuff? Did I not download the whole package? Is there a separate > 'software' section I didn't see? > > > Curious minds.... That was an example. You _do_ have to get the software images yourself, and install them somewhere. I myself keep "installation media" in the C:\DIST directory, and "disks" in C:\DSK. Everyone has their own system for that, I assume. Images of installation media are available from the archives, see http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ and the PUPS archive for some. --f From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Nov 16 18:51:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? References: Message-ID: <3DD6E813.E8AF514D@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > Well, having got the Simulated PDP11 running - my next untutored > question is: > sim> att rl ....filname??? > sim> boot rl ....filename??? > How does one get an OS loaded on the 'machine?' > Cheers > John Jerome Fine replies: If RT-11 is your fancy - or even if it is not, at least it can be a start, download the distribution from: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ You will need to UnZip the distributions, of course. Then just ATTACH the "filename" and BOOT. I intend to make V5.03 Y2K compliant if anyone is interested, probably even Y10K compliant as well. I would appreciate some feedback in the case of Y10K compliant since there are a few things that need to be defined. It should be possible to make the Y10K enhancements at the same time as the Y2K bug fixes. But the DATE value in RT-11 is insufficient to handle more than another few years, certainly not hundreds, let alone thousands. A whole word for the extra year bits is my choice. For disk files, a whole word is available and for tapes, at least a thousand years is VERY easy - except cassette tapes. I would appreciate some help in deciding. I hear there are RSX-11 and RSTS/E distributions available as well, but I am an RT-11 addict. Did I answer your question. I would appreciate some help in setting up a compile/link environment for use under Windows 98 SE unless you and other fellows can change V2.10 source files to again provide VT100 emulation as does V2.9-11. But I would prefer to spend all of my time in enhancing RT-11 distributions. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 16 19:03:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? In-Reply-To: <3DD6E813.E8AF514D@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > If RT-11 is your fancy - or even if it is not, at least it > can be a start, download the distribution from: > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ > > You will need to UnZip the distributions, of course. > Then just ATTACH the "filename" and BOOT. I will try this in a moment. RT11 V.5 was my first experience with PDP11 stuff, when I got my first 11/73 system. It had RT11SJ and a single 51/4" HD, and I found the console port by repeatedly booting the machine while watching various serial card Berg pins with a scope... > > I hear there are RSX-11 and RSTS/E distributions > available as well, but I am an RT-11 addict. I will look for them too - I am especially interested in RSX because I wish to build a complete simulation of my existing 11/44 system. > > Did I answer your question. I believe so - I need to try it out now. > I would appreciate some > help in setting up a compile/link environment for use > under Windows 98 SE unless you and other fellows > can change V2.10 source files to again provide VT100 > emulation as does V2.9-11. But I would prefer to > spend all of my time in enhancing RT-11 distributions. > I am only an egg re: the above. Havta ask the Software Gurus - I'm just a nerd with a soldering iron. Your help is very much appreciated! Cheers John > From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 16 19:49:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: RT11 running on SIMH PDP11 In-Reply-To: <3DD6E813.E8AF514D@compsys.to> Message-ID: Jerome, thank you! I have RT11 booted and running in another window as I type this... tooo coool! Thanks all who have offered advice, as well! Cheers John From bill_r at inebraska.com Sat Nov 16 20:32:00 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: FA: Data General manuals, HP and Tektronix manuals, core memory, 3-axis acceleromer, Solaris In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20021115173255.466fee88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021115173255.466fee88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Pretty cool. But have you seen this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2070473173 On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:32:55, you wrote: > I'm trying to clean out some of the clutter before the holidays and I've put a ton of stuff on e-bay including some core memory, a programmer's panel (both end in an hour. these are from computers that were junked before I found them), DG manuals, HP 9845 manuals, Tektronix programmable calibration generator manual, a 3-axis accelerometer, Solaris manuals, conductivity meter, and two NICE stepper motor drivers including one that's made by NEAT for driving optical stages. > > > Joe -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From drizzi at tiscalinet.it Sat Nov 16 20:32:29 2002 From: drizzi at tiscalinet.it (Davide "GIGI" Rizzi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: History of computer architecture Message-ID: <3DD6409C.6040109@tiscalinet.it> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello everybody, ~ I have to prepare a 1 hour lesson on history of computer architecture as a part of a university exam. It must be a technical lesson (ie: process technology, innovations such as pipelines & superscalar processors, risc vs cisc, and so on - I study informatic engineering), not just a historical resume. I started collecting informations, but I wonder if you can suggest me some interesting sites and/or books. Tank you! Davide Rizzi ps: Sorry for my bad english... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE91kCbYBhzL9pH2nMRAtBEAJ9gsfVPsi+kfYbZYKhBos/dk2YZTgCcD2JU SZJC4PoFQkwnUM0utdi5Tw0= =mBsu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 16 20:32:43 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: TI 99/4a (boxed) and TI Data Recorder available Message-ID: A gentlement named Ed Crawson in Texas has a TI 99/4a available for sale. It is boxed and includes a TI data recorder, which is relatively uncommon. He is missing the manuals but is currently searching for them. According to the seller it is in like new condition, having been used only slightly. He also has the TI data recorder, which is fairly uncommon. He wants to sell it. I told him $35 + shipping for the whole lot would be about fair, but you can negotiate with him. His name is Ed and he can be reached at 210/655.6400. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Felix.Hammann at t-online.de Sat Nov 16 20:32:57 2002 From: Felix.Hammann at t-online.de (Felix Hammann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: BULL PR54 / GE 400 Message-ID: <3DD6A1C7.62C2BAB@t-online.de> Dear Sirs, my father started in the late 60's with BULL machines (tabulatrices imprimantes etc.) Later we had a GAMMA 10 and also the GE415 (wich is still built up in moment). In case you are interested in any spare parts, machines, sheets, documents etc please contact me. But i also like to ask you for your assistance. We bought a BULL PR54 some time ago and want to fix it to a PC. Unfortunately there is no description about the interface (level 6/66). Can you give us any information ? best regards, Felix Hammann Fabrikstrasse 6 67454 Hassloch phone +49 6324 3001 fax +49 6324 58543 sorry i had a wrong email adress to answer back in my mail From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Nov 16 21:07:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? References: Message-ID: <3DD707D3.249D9806@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > The directory 'dsk', nor any files with the extent of '.dsk' do not > exist anywhere I can find them... are they supposed to come with the SIMH > stuff? Did I not download the whole package? Is there a separate > 'software' section I didn't see? > Curious minds.... > John Jerome Fine replies: Since SIMH is concerned with so many different CPUs, no software distributions are directly available with SIMH. You have to download them separately - or ask if you have a particular preference. Since I am addicted to RT-11, I know where a lot of RT-11 software is located for download. Maybe the: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ site should contain some pointers? In addition, at: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ You can also download the same files at: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/kits/rt11swre.tar.Z http://simh.trailing-edge.com/kits/rtv53swre.tar.Z Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Nov 16 21:29:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: SIMH software? References: Message-ID: <3DD70D1D.ACD37B41@compsys.to> >John Lawson wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > If RT-11 is your fancy - or even if it is not, at least it > > can be a start, download the distribution from: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ > > You will need to UnZip the distributions, of course. > > Then just ATTACH the "filename" and BOOT. > I will try this in a moment. RT11 V.5 was my first experience with PDP11 > stuff, when I got my first 11/73 system. It had RT11SJ and a single 51/4" > HD, and I found the console port by repeatedly booting the machine while > watching various serial card Berg pins with a scope... Jerome Fine replies: Which V5.0x did you use? V5.00 was released in 1983 and V5.03 was released in 1985. V5.06 was released in 1992 and V5.07 in 1998. > > I hear there are RSX-11 and RSTS/E distributions > > available as well, but I am an RT-11 addict. > I will look for them too - I am especially interested in RSX because I > wish to build a complete simulation of my existing 11/44 system. I have heard there are some RSX-11 distributions available. > > Did I answer your question. > I believe so - I need to try it out now. GREAT!! > > I would appreciate some > > help in setting up a compile/link environment for use > > under Windows 98 SE unless you and other fellows > > can change V2.10 source files to again provide VT100 > > emulation as does V2.9-11. But I would prefer to > > spend all of my time in enhancing RT-11 distributions. > I am only an egg re: the above. Havta ask the Software Gurus - I'm just > a nerd with a soldering iron. I almost always burn myself with a soldering iron. I have learned to stop using one. > Your help is very much appreciated! You are welcome. You might also want to try out: http://www.dbit.com/ The files are located at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/ You will need /e11/ and /putr/ is highly useful helping use both e11.exe and pdp11.exe, but legally you need a license to use e11.exe with all versions of RT-11. NOTE that the commands under e11.exe are often very different to do the same thing as under SIMH. For example: MOUNT DL0: filename is used under e11. In general, I find that e11 is much more versatile than SIMH, but then I use the Full version. The hobby version of e11 has two major restrictions which are only inconvenient when you run RT-11. Except for the smaller memory allowed and the smaller disk size, the other features might help you much more. In particular, the VT100 emulation is much better. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mtapley at swri.edu Sat Nov 16 22:39:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <20021116040336.52261.73661.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >From: "Lawrence Walker" > > Thanks all. There's also a PD program called "deepdran.exe" (deepdrain) >which I can use to exercise the batteries after, if it's successfull. >Worth a try. There's a similar program for the early PowerPC Powerbooks. I had a really bad experience with it in my 3400. I took a couple of dead, drained, and on-the-shelf for years NiMH batteries. Charged one in the powerbook for a while (15 minutes or so) then tried this program on it. Battery ran down, Powerbook made out-of-power noises, turned off. Plugged in and reset, the battery charged up, no problem. (I'm using that battery now). The *other* battery, I figured I now knew what I was doing. I slapped it in, unplugged the powerbook immediately, and let it run down on the drain-dead program. About 10 seconds later, it made a weird buzzing, and went dead. Next time it powered up was after the power supply board got replaced. :-(. Exercise some caution. I don't know what happened - maybe the PS board got fried because the battery voltage went too low too fast? Maybe it was OK until I plugged it back in, at which point it fried trying to charge a too-dead battery too fast? Maybe there's a problem with a PS designed for Li-Ion batteries charging a NiMH battery (though it's supposed to be OK). I don't know, but I'm going to charge the other battery repeatedly in the external charger before I put it into the PB again. - Mark From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 16 23:46:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Good haul Message-ID: Yesterday I went by the scrapyard, and found an HP 9825B, 9825T, and 3 HP 86s... Asked what they wanted for them, and they told me "oh we wouldn't charge you for those"... WOOHOO! But I need case parts and manuals and keycaps, plus none of them have interface cards in them.. But the 9825T, which is all I have powered up so far, WORKS! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Nov 17 00:13:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: <20021116040336.52261.73661.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >I rarely bet except on certainties :-) Yeah, me too. As you probably noted... >>> Now *I'll* bet - Tony wants to know what the comparator *inputs* are >>> connected to. ... >> >>I don;t think it's for overvoltage protection. I think this is where the >>PowerOK signal comes from. And it's triggering at the wrong time. So >>either the comparator is defective or there's a problem with the passive >>components areund it, or there's a PSU fault. >> >>How hard is it to reverse-engineer the schematic of the components around >>this comparator? Can't be _that_ complicated... Yup. a sure bet. :-) Complicated, probably not. Hard, yes. They are all surface-mount and near microscopic. For which reason, all numbers and letters quoted below may be wrong. Here's what I think I found: Comparator INV Input B and Input B connect to ground (zero Ohms to chassis). Comparator INV Input A connects to the middle pin (which points left) of a 3-pin device marked "88W". I couldn't find that the upper right pin connected to anything. The lower right pin connected to ground. That input stayed very steady at about 3.4 V. Comparator Input A connects to an orange device marked "6192" and a black device marked "1152". Both are 2-terminal surface-mount rectangles. The other end of the 6192 connects to ground. The other end of the 1152 connects to +5 (Red wire). That input *varies substantially and irregularly* It's at 4.2V and reasonably steady when the computer is running. It's at 2.9V, or wavering in between when the computer is hung. There may be *lots* of connections I missed. "Wavering" is what I see my needle do - for all I know, the voltage may be popping rapidly between the two values, with varying duty cycle. Here's what I think may be happening: 6192 and 1152 are voltage-dividing the +5V supply down to some intermediate value for the comparator. But either the resistors are flaky (do resistors *do* that?) or the comparator is intermittently drawing current, and throwing off the voltage-divider. Good so far? Any way to test those theories with my analog VOM? Should I order a new LM193 comparator chip instead of a pile of capacitors for my first soldering attempt on this machine? If I *do* need to pull the comparator, I'll need to take the mainboard out of the chassis. That'll mean removing 4 extremely nasty plastic rivet things. How do those suckers come out in such a way as to leave them intact? I wrestled with one for a while and got nowhere. >It can't do any harm provided the new capacitors are good, and you get >them the right way round (they are, of course, polarised.) I didn't make it to the electronics shop today - Kids' soccer game and wife's Newtonsday (sic?) shopping interfered. She promised to go for me Monday if I wanted. I explained to her what a "capacitor" is so that she could breeze in, look knowledgeable, and say "I'd like replacements for all the electrolytic capacitors on this board." She practiced it three or four times so she wouldn't stumble over "electrolytic capacitors". I also pointed at them, just for good measure. All that notwithstanding, the capacitors may get due process after all. - Mark From jbmcb at hotmail.com Sun Nov 17 00:22:00 2002 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter References: Message-ID: The unit my friend had was similiar, but the screws around the periphary of the clamshell holding everything down were square instead of torx (the "slot" in the screw was square) We came up with an appropriate driver but couldn't get the things to budge. Post-drilling it looked like there was some kind of goo in the threads, and around the periphary of the case. I think it was some kind of sealant. I don't know if all RA drives had it, but it *really* didn't want to come out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter > I've not actually taken an RA-series HDA apart, but based on the R80 HDA > that's sitting here (waiting for me to restore the 11/730 system...) it > appears you can remove some clips and pull off the front cover and then > undo a lot of bolts (admittedly with male Torx-like heads) and then > separate the 2 halves of the HDA. Why isn't it as easy as this? > > -tony > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Nov 17 01:09:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: kaypro 2 boot disk. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Can the Kaypro 2 disks be copied without a Kaypro 2? yes. But you need software below the BIOS level (Int13h can't do all of the requisite weirdities of double sided Kaypros.) > I have some Kaypro 2 software, but it is already promised to someone else > (just waiting for them to pick it up whenever they are next in the area). > If they can safely be dupilcated with a PC, I can run off a copy while > waiting (but unless this is a 100% safe thing, I don't want to do it, I > don't want to risk screwing up the disks) Write protect. There is no risk to the source disks, nor to the computer hardware. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 17 02:21:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > Good so far? Any way to test those theories with my analog VOM? Should I > order a new LM193 comparator chip instead of a pile of capacitors for my > first soldering attempt on this machine? Are the two fans on the side of the power supply running properly? These systems don't have the best cooling, and tended to run a little hot anyway. What type of hard drive do you have in the system? A 1" high SCSI drive, especially the faster ones may generate too much heat for the small PSU fans to cope with. Your mainboard may have a bad solder joint somewhere near the comparator, which would explain the thermal issue. That tends to be the worst type of problem to pinpoint too. > If I *do* need to pull the comparator, I'll need to take the mainboard > out of the chassis. That'll mean removing 4 extremely nasty plastic > rivet things. How do those suckers come out in such a way as to leave > them intact? I wrestled with one for a while and got nowhere. First you'll want to remove lower portion of the plastic shell. There are 5 screws on the bottom of the unit, and two clips on the front edge. The plastic shell has some tabs that engage on the rear of the unit, so be careful not to break them when you tilt it off when you release the two front clips. Next you'll need to remove the graphics board, which is mounted with two phillips screws near the video connector. Once those are out, you can *carefully* unplug the board to board connector opposite the video connector. Getting the board out is still tricky, and you have to move it just so in order to get it to come out. Once the graphics board is out, there are 3 more phillips screws at the back edge of the mainboard. The plastic clips pull up to release, but with the bottom shell off, you can use something to push them up from the underside. PS/2 model 30 systems have similar plastic clips, and also have a little tool inside the system for releasing them. I think the clips are a little larger, so I doubt the tool would work on the ones in the 4000 VLC, but DEC likely sold a tool for releasing them. > All that notwithstanding, the capacitors may get due process after all. Certainly make sure they are discharged before you remove them, if you decide to replace them after all ;) -Toth From hansp at aconit.org Sun Nov 17 06:53:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: BULL PR54 / GE 400 References: <3DD6A1C7.62C2BAB@t-online.de> Message-ID: <3DD79183.4020802@aconit.org> Felix Hammann wrote: > Dear Sirs, > my father started in the late 60's with BULL machines (tabulatrices > imprimantes etc.) Later we had a GAMMA 10 and also the GE415 (wich is > still built up in moment). In case you are interested in any spare > parts, machines, sheets, documents etc please contact me. > > But i also like to ask you for your assistance. We bought a BULL PR54 > some time ago and want to fix it to a PC. Unfortunately there is no > description about the interface (level 6/66). Can you give us any > information ? You will probably find the Federation d'Equipes Bull of interest. They have a frecnh web site at http://www.weboto.com/feb/ . They have a collection which includes one of almost all the machines ever constructed by Bull. I seem to rememebr that they have a German branch also but don't have any info on that now. We (ACONIT : http://www.aconit.org ) also have a collection of Bull machines including tabulators and sorters, also a Gamma 3 (tube (or valve) based machine of 1952 and a Gamma 30. -- hbp From Qstieee at aol.com Sun Nov 17 08:20:19 2002 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: VMS BBS software Message-ID: <1c8.1c0c295.2b08ffa7@aol.com> I think the people at the Retro-Computing Society of Rhode Island are doing that. See http://www.osfn.org/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Nov 17 08:27:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Good haul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021117093159.4767701a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:46 PM 11/16/02 -0700, Will wrote: >Yesterday I went by the scrapyard, and found an HP 9825B, 9825T, and 3 HP >86s... Asked what they wanted for them, and they told me "oh we wouldn't >charge you for those"... WOOHOO! But I need case parts and manuals and >keycaps, plus none of them have interface cards in them.. But the 9825T, >which is all I have powered up so far, WORKS! > NICE HAUL! Care to tell use where this scrapyard is? :-) Joe From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 17 08:53:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Good haul In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021117145440.OFM9064.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 17 November 2002 00:46, Will Jennings wrote: > Yesterday I went by the scrapyard, and found an HP 9825B, 9825T, and 3 > HP 86s... Asked what they wanted for them, and they told me "oh we > wouldn't charge you for those"... WOOHOO! But I need case parts and > manuals and keycaps, plus none of them have interface cards in them.. > But the 9825T, which is all I have powered up so far, WORKS! All I managed at the church fair yesterday was a pair of superpets :( with 3 boxes of disks and manuals, and a lead on a chicklet Pet and cbm 2001. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Nov 17 08:57:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <20021116215742.GA2939136@uiuc.edu> References: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021117094358.022733ac@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:57 PM 11/16/02 -0600, you wrote: >On this subject, anyone know what needs to be done with non-nicad laptop >batteries? I have a DEC HiNote ultra II with a bad Li-Ion battery pack that >I'd like to rejuvenate, but I have no idea how to do so and I suspect that the >same zapping technique as recommended for nicads won't do the trick... Don't try to rejuvenate or zap Li-ion packs; they will probably explode. Plus, the chemistry is such that if you recharge it above 100%, there will be formation of unstable (explosive) compounds. Li-ion batteries require an intelligent recharger to avoid this. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 17 10:06:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> Its clear that there is friction between the worlds of vintage computer collecting and chip collectors. A disinterested party would probably assume that these two islands of peoples would be highly interdependant and mutually supportive, but commonly this is not the case at all. I recently exchanged a number of emails with several chip collectors regarding a very rare RCA 1801 chip set. I have to say that dealing with the chip collectors left me very confused. I do think that there are some problems in the chip collecting community as a whole. This is not to say that there is anything intrinsically wrong with collecting old and rare chips in itself. But the current ways in which values are assigned to chips is very wrong, and this does lead to the destruction of rare parts in some cases. As an example, one collector lists a RCA 1801 chip set at $1,500, for a pair of IC's that have never been soldered onto a board, and are in unknown functional condition. These same collectors will turn their noses up at a much earlier, much less common RCA 1801 CPU assembly that is unused new old stock. So vastly more value is placed on the fact that the parts 'look' new than their actual rarity, or even the fact that RCA shipped and sold this processor as a CPU assembly on a tiny PCB. Apparently the true historical context of the 1801 CPU is less important than appearance, and the same appears to be true of its functional condition as well. The fact that RCA soldered the part onto a module lowers the value to a greater degree than its rarity increases it, despite the fact that this is what the part is for, or the implications on the functionality of the parts? This is not an easy position to defend. I'm sure most would agree that a NOS CPU board is far more likley to be functional that a pair of never-been-soldered chips. So we see that at least in this case, appearance is more highly valued that actual rarity or functionality, and even moreso that the true historical perspective of the devices themselves. If we were to look at a similar collectable item, and the needed parts to keep that collectable running, we find an excellent parallel in antique pocket watches. Here is a collectable item that holds value, and appreciates much like many vintage computers do today. The parts are no longer made, and some parts wear and fail during normal operation much like our vintage hardware does. Most of the stocks of repair parts for antique pocket watches come from new old stocks found in various locations, but some people are forces to scavenge parts from other non-working watches. Some people actually collect repair parts for these facinating vintage machines, but only for the purpose of restoring and repairing the watches, and not because the parts themselves are assigned value seperate from the watch that uses them.. Mainsprings will fail, they are in effect, consumable parts (often lasting for decades, but still consumable). New replacement mainsprings for a turn-of-the-century Waltham watch are no longer made and are becomming rather rare. Has the price of vintage Waltham mainsprings shot upwards? No, not much at all, because at time goes by, fewer and fewer vintage Waltham's cross watchmakers benches for repair. Value is based on supply and demand in a simple and rational way. One good reason for this is that there is zero practical value to collecting pocet watch parts unless they are going to be used in repairing pocket watches, and so the watch parts collectors are the same watchmakers who perform the repairs. This is not how chip collecting is working today at all. Collectors are collecting chips, yet are commonly disinterested in collecting the machines that actually use these parts. Lacking and practical grounding (or worse, electrical grounding) in the practical context of the parts, their perceptions of value are often highly distorted to the point of being flat-out wrong. But its clear that the development of the chip is a far more important historical development than the many innovations in pocket watch design, so the chip by itself has taken on an aura of collectability that just does not reflect its actual value or historical context. One can imagine that 50 years from now, someone might view an early microprocessor chip with some respect, while today no one is going to be impressed with a mainspring from a watch. But a fully operational vintage pocket watch will still be far far more interesting than a dusty old chip of unknown (or unknowable) functional condition. Taking the analogy between vintage computers and antuique watches a step further, the situation we have today is as if the watchmakers (people reparing old machines) and those collecting the parts needed for those repairs are seperate groups (at least in part), and the parts collectors are trying to assign value to the parts independantly from the value of the machines needing those parts. So maybe chip collector #1 has a C8080 rather than a C8080A. Fine, so what? If its just a chip sitting around its far less interesting (historically) than any sort of 8080 thats actually running. This is no different than a old but rather common pocket watch in perfect running condition being more valuable than a much rarer pocket watch in poor condition that does not run and needs parts that are not available. Also once that C8080 is placed into a collection of other 8080 CPU's, its going to be assigned a higher value, 'Oh, I cannot sell just that one, it would break up the set'. This only further distorts the perception of value issue running through the chip collecting community, and further seperates the parts from the machines that use them. So what (in my opinion) is wrong with chip collecting? Simply put, vintage chip collecting as a seperate activity from the repair of vintage hardware only serves to distort the value of the parts themselves at the expense of those who do restore vintage hardware. Based on every other collectable I'm aware of, the functional whole item is always more valuable than the parts it contains. Either chip collectors need to get a grip on their misperceptions of value, or vintage machine collectors need to greatly re-assess the values of their operational hardware. Probably equal measures of both are in order. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 17 10:13:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: <3DD69448.805B400C@rain.org> Message-ID: <3DD7C104.9070801@tiac.net> So stop griping! This seems like a resonable, on-topic discussion. Marvin Johnston wrote: >Tothwolf wrote: > >>On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: >> >>>I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my >>>hobby. >>> >>Too bad you can't do a better job of it. >> > >BTW, this is not only directed to you but *everyone* who is contributing >nothing but emotional gripes; GET A LIFE. John has contributed some >valuable information and seems to have a handle on the chip collecting >side of things. Lets take advantage of his knowledge rather than trying >to piss him off because of your personal problems. > >Damn, this gets tiring seeing people gripe rather than offer >constructive comments. > From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Nov 17 10:27:00 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:56 2005 Subject: Zapping Laptop batteries References: <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3DD44A01.4358.113246E3@localhost> <3.0.6.16.20021115092938.476f3db4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.2.32.20021117094358.022733ac@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3DD7C448.1050205@tiac.net> Good point! Just for reference, a standard 18650-series Li-Ion cell has about the same explosive potential as 4 to 5 grams of gasoline. Never screw around with raw Li-Ion cells. Carlos Murillo wrote: >At 03:57 PM 11/16/02 -0600, you wrote: > >>On this subject, anyone know what needs to be done with non-nicad laptop >>batteries? I have a DEC HiNote ultra II with a bad Li-Ion battery pack that >>I'd like to rejuvenate, but I have no idea how to do so and I suspect that >> >the > >>same zapping technique as recommended for nicads won't do the trick... >> > >Don't try to rejuvenate or zap Li-ion packs; they will probably explode. >Plus, the chemistry is such that if you recharge it above >100%, there will be formation of unstable (explosive) compounds. >Li-ion batteries require an intelligent recharger to avoid this. > >carlos. > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Nov 17 10:43:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: TI 99/4a (boxed) and TI Data Recorder available References: Message-ID: <004c01c28e58$99c8b8d0$4e000240@oemcomputer> Just a FYI, I see the TI Data recorder alot here in Houston at a price of 1.91 to 4.94 at the thrifts. I pass on them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 2:52 AM Subject: TI 99/4a (boxed) and TI Data Recorder available > > A gentlement named Ed Crawson in Texas has a TI 99/4a available for sale. > It is boxed and includes a TI data recorder, which is relatively > uncommon. He is missing the manuals but is currently searching for them. > According to the seller it is in like new condition, having been used > only slightly. He also has the TI data recorder, which is fairly > uncommon. > > He wants to sell it. I told him $35 + shipping for the whole lot would be > about fair, but you can negotiate with him. > > His name is Ed and he can be reached at 210/655.6400. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 17 11:27:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <006201c28dc9$1f8c5a70$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > Remember your post on this forum that started this over > a year ago when you refered to me as "the worlds biggest > fool" for paying x$ on EBAY for a vintage chip? > > When you come out of the blue and start refering to people > as "fools" for collecting chips, what do you expect chip > collectors to think about your views on chip collecting? Yes, I remember. And I still think it's foolish, just like I thought it was foolish to be spending the kind of money that was being paid for all sorts of old computer things that are now currently "worth" a fraction of the value on eBay. I got flak from this list over those comments, but I think I've been mostly vindicated. You'll suffer the same once the fad is over. > I think you are just finding it hard to make your point with out > sounding obnoxious and arrogant and others are noticing it. I think it's > really fun watching you publically humiliate yourself. In any style of writing, it's hard to make a point when certain people don't have the level of intelligence to comprehend what is written. You can count yourself among these "certain people". I've stated what I feel about chip collecting. You can choose to read what you want into it to fuel your own conspiracy theories about how computer collectors are out to destroy the chip collector community. > If I were you I would stop now before you humiliate yourself even more. It's difficult to be humiliated when one is right, and your sparring opponent is not very bright and uses a pseudonym. I am unaffected by anonymity. Your desperation is showing through. I've asked you to forward your proof to me that I am turning people away from "your" hobby but none has arrived. I also challenge you to come up with one remark I've made condemning chip collecting. Throw down, boy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 17 11:32:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <004601c28dd2$8ac04460$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, John Allain wrote: > Hey, > > anybody on the list remember why I like Sellam? > I'm starting to forget again. > > John A. > > The moral of this story is that life is sometimes like > quicksand, you have to notice the times when the more > you struggle the more you get in it instead of out of it. I'm not afraid of controversy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Nov 17 11:43:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <3DD7C104.9070801@tiac.net> Message-ID: > So stop griping! > > This seems like a resonable, on-topic discussion. ...and we are aiming that pistol straight at our own feet. Cripes, guys, if we continue to nail these chip collectors to the wall with broad generalizations based on nothing but a few anecdotes and shakey evidence, these guys *will* start going out of there way to scrap good machines for chips, just to spite us. It is just like pissing off a scrap dealer - really try *not* to do this, as some of those guys can swing a sledgehammer with great accuracy. So everybody chill out, please. If you don't want to deal with chip collectors, than DON'T. There are plenty of goodies for everbody. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Nov 17 11:49:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The unit my friend had was similiar, but the screws around the periphary of > the clamshell holding everything down were square instead of torx (the > "slot" in the screw was square) We came up with an appropriate driver but > couldn't get the things to budge. Post-drilling it looked like there was > some kind of goo in the threads, and around the periphary of the case. I > think it was some kind of sealant. I don't know if all RA drives had it, but > it *really* didn't want to come out. Sometimes that goo (various kinds) can be loosened by heating up the screw with an soldering iron. Sometimes... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Nov 17 12:14:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Original meaning of ASCII codes (fwd) Message-ID: Of possible interest to the List... ------------ Tear along dotted line ---------------------- From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII control codes Date: 31 Aug 1995 19:37:58 GMT From article <4239uk$ko1@metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>, by adrianw@cassius (Adrian Whichello): > Some are obviously still used for their original purpose (CR, LF, the > tabbing codes etc.) but what did ENQ, EM, SUB, FS, etc. do? Thanks, - - - here's a reply I posted a year ago in June - - - Subject: Re: original uses of ASCII control codes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <1994Jun02.064649.131411@ua1ix.ua.edu> To understand the original intent of the ASCII control codes, you have to think of teletypes, using paper tape, configured in a multidrop system with relay logic used to turn on or off individual teletypes in the bunch, and you have to remember that the designers were pretty smart and they anticipated future developments, but they also managed to include provisions for things that never happened. Here are the ASCII control characters, and a few others, with comments on how they were supposed to be used and how this relates to current popular uses: NAME HEX/CTL USE NULL 00 ^@ always ignored -- leader and trailer on paper tape systems was typically made of sequences of NULLs. SOH 01 ^A start of heading -- imagine a heading containing, for example, the address of the recipient. You could have relay logic that scans for SOH, then enables the print mechanism if the following character matches this station's address. In early documentation, this was called start of message. STX 02 ^B start of text -- if the heading matched, start printing with the following character. In early documentation, this was called end of address. ETX 03 ^C end of text -- now is a good time to stop printing. Your message might continue after this with a checksum or other administrative stuff. In early documentation, this was called end of message. The common use of control C as a kill character stems from this -- it indicates the end of your text addressed to some application. EOT 04 ^D end of transmission -- relay logic could decode this and, if there is a tape in the tape reader, it could begin transmitting its own message. ENQ 05 ^E enquire -- on receiving this, local relay logic would generate a response. In early documentation, this was called WRU or who are you. Teletypes had programmable response sequences that were encoded on a music box mechanism, and it was up to the customer to break plastic fingers off the drum to code how it responded to an ENQ. ACK 06 ^F acknowledge -- one possible response to ENQ. In early documentation, this was called RU or are you. BEL 07 ^G bell -- ring the bell in the terminal. Teletypes had real bells where most modern terminals have beepers of some kind. A sequence of BEL characters sent to a teletype sounded very much like a telephone ringing. BS 08 ^H backspace. HT 09 ^I horizontal tab. LF 0A ^J linefeed. VT 0B ^K vertical tab. FF 0C ^L formfeed -- page eject. CR 0D ^M carrage return -- on many mechanical devices, CR was slow. The sequence CR LF was always sent in that order so that the linefeed could be handled while the carriage was returning; a well adjusted Teletype could just finish the CR in this time (0.2 seconds), and a common sign that it was time to call the service man was that the first letter printed after a CR LF was printed "on the fly" on the way back to the margin. SO 0E ^N shift out -- if you've got a two-color ribbon, shift to the alternate color, usually red. There are obvious extensions of this to alternate character sets. SI 0F ^O shift in -- undo whatever SO does. For mysterious reasons that have no apparent connection to old or modern ASCII standards, DEC liked to use control O as a break character to suppress teletype output. DLE 10 ^P data link escape -- an escape character is generally a prefix for something else. DLE was expected to be used as a prefix on characters in the user data stream that might otherwise be interpreted as data link control characters, for example, flow control characters. In some early documentation, this was called DC0 or device control zero. DC1 11 ^Q device control 1 -- turn on the paper tape reader. In early documentation, this was called XON. DC2 12 ^R device control 2 -- turn on the paper tape punch. DC3 13 ^S device control 3 -- turn off the paper tape reader. In early documentation, this was called XOFF, The use of XON/XOFF (DC1/DC3) for flow control stems from their use to control the flow of data from the paper tape reader attached to a Teletype. DC4 14 ^T device control 4 -- turn off the paper tape punch. NAK 15 ^U negative acknowledge -- another possible response to ENQ. One flow control mechanism is to use ENQ to ask if the receiver has buffer space, and require the receiver to respond with either ACK (yes) or NAK (no). ENQ could also be used to enquire about whether a retransmission is required after sending a checksum. The popular use of control U to delete the current input line is only vaguely grounded in this definition. SYN 16 ^V synchronous idle -- if you're using a synchronous transmission protocol, and you have no data to send, you send SYN characters to keep the clocks synchronized. The receiver should ignore these, and the transmitter may have to insert them into the data stream once in a while. ETB 17 ^W end of transmission block -- used when a transmission must be broken into many blocks for some reason, for example, to place a checksum after each block. Early documentation called this logical end of media. CAN 18 ^X cancel -- take that back, what I just sent you is a mistake, ignore it. EM 19 ^Y end of medium -- there's nothing left on this reel of (paper) tape. SUB 1A ^Z substitute -- the next character is from an alternate character set. SUB X might be equivalent to SO X SI, or it might be an alternate mechanism for extending the character set. The common use of control Z as an end of file character has no obvious relation to the standard. ESC 1B ^[ escape -- the next character is to be interpreted as something other than text, for example, it might be an extended control character of some kind. FS 1C ^\ file separator -- useful if you have multiple logical files in one transmission. GS 1D ^] group separator -- useful if files are made of groups of records. RS 1E ^^ record separator -- COBOL anyone? US 1F ^_ unit separator -- are records made of units? ALT 7D } Some early teletypes had an ALT MODE key that generated this code instead of ESC. This was interpreted as an escape code, which was no problem when nobody had lower case printers, but with the advent of full 96 character ASCII, there were obvious compatability problems. PRE 7E ~ A few terminals had a PREFIX key that generated this code instead of ALT MODE, with all the same problems. DEL 7F delete -- remember, paper tape uses a hole to record each one and no hole to record each zero. DEL is all holes, so it can be punched over any other character to rub it out (on old teletypes, it was the RUB or RUB OUT key). If you mispunch a character, just back up the tape and overpunch it with a DEL. Software is expected to ignore DEL the same way it ignores NULL. ------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ GreenKeys mailing list GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 17 12:42:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? In-Reply-To: <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > So vastly more value is placed on the fact that the parts 'look' new > than their actual rarity, or even the fact that RCA shipped and sold > this processor as a CPU assembly on a tiny PCB. Apparently the true > historical context of the 1801 CPU is less important than appearance, > and the same appears to be true of its functional condition as well. <...> > I'm sure most would agree that a NOS CPU board is far more likley to be > functional that a pair of never-been-soldered chips. So we see that at > least in this case, appearance is more highly valued that actual rarity > or functionality, and even moreso that the true historical perspective > of the devices themselves. This is typical of fad collectors. Appearance is valued over substance or functionality. It is collecting mostly out of competition. It is typically human. For me, collecting has always been natural (i.e. I'm a pack rat). But I also just have a basic appreciation of all things old. I just happened to combine this appreciation with my passion for computers and became a collector. I also don't really consider it a hobby. For me it's a way of life. > Most of the stocks of repair parts for antique pocket watches come from > new old stocks found in various locations, but some people are forces to > scavenge parts from other non-working watches. Some people actually > collect repair parts for these facinating vintage machines, but only for > the purpose of restoring and repairing the watches, and not because the > parts themselves are assigned value seperate from the watch that uses them.. An apt analogy. > But its clear that the development of the chip is a far more important > historical development than the many innovations in pocket watch design, > so the chip by itself has taken on an aura of collectability that just > does not reflect its actual value or historical context. One can > imagine that 50 years from now, someone might view an early > microprocessor chip with some respect, while today no one is going to be > impressed with a mainspring from a watch. Chips in themselves have histories and stories behind them. They have a specific function that can be described and in some cases appreciated; they may have pushed the boundaries of electrical engineering at some point, making them significant in that regard; they may have been designed by significant persons, etc. Collecting and documenting chips in and of themselves is completely valid. Once we get beyond the fad phase, the hobby will have matured. Computer collecting went through the same phase. I think the hobby has now mostly matured. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sun Nov 17 13:08:16 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] References: Message-ID: <004201c28e6d$d3ca38a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Sellam, This mailing list has a function besides being a private battleground for the two of us. I think everyone here understands our positions and has now drawn their conclusions. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the fact that you are resorting to name calling and insults ("fool", "dweeb", "not very bright", etc) is pretty pathetic and proves that you have nothing more than insults to contribute to this issue. While I would love to continue toying with you just to watch you destroy what little credibility you have left, I know that the other members of the mailing list must be growing tired of this. I am too and I will not respond to anymore of your insults. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:30 AM Subject: Re: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] > On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > > > Remember your post on this forum that started this over > > a year ago when you refered to me as "the worlds biggest > > fool" for paying x$ on EBAY for a vintage chip? > > > > When you come out of the blue and start refering to people > > as "fools" for collecting chips, what do you expect chip > > collectors to think about your views on chip collecting? > > Yes, I remember. And I still think it's foolish, just like I thought it > was foolish to be spending the kind of money that was being paid for all > sorts of old computer things that are now currently "worth" a fraction of > the value on eBay. I got flak from this list over those comments, but I > think I've been mostly vindicated. You'll suffer the same once the > fad is over. > > > I think you are just finding it hard to make your point with out > > sounding obnoxious and arrogant and others are noticing it. I think it's > > really fun watching you publically humiliate yourself. > > In any style of writing, it's hard to make a point when certain people > don't have the level of intelligence to comprehend what is written. You > can count yourself among these "certain people". > > I've stated what I feel about chip collecting. You can choose to read > what you want into it to fuel your own conspiracy theories about how > computer collectors are out to destroy the chip collector community. > > > If I were you I would stop now before you humiliate yourself even more. > > It's difficult to be humiliated when one is right, and your sparring > opponent is not very bright and uses a pseudonym. I am unaffected by > anonymity. Your desperation is showing through. > > I've asked you to forward your proof to me that I am turning people away > from "your" hobby but none has arrived. I also challenge you to come up > with one remark I've made condemning chip collecting. > > Throw down, boy. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Nov 17 13:56:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Good haul In-Reply-To: <20021117145440.OFM9064.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: I'd say that is still a good haul, I've been hunting for a PET anything for a long time. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, November 17, 2002, at 09:54 AM, Mike wrote: > All I managed at the church fair yesterday was a pair of superpets :( > with 3 boxes of disks and manuals, and a lead on a chicklet Pet and > cbm > 2001. > From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sun Nov 17 14:19:12 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (John Galt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001b01c28e77$b7b881d0$0100a8c0@sys1> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? > Its clear that there is friction between the worlds of vintage computer > collecting and chip collectors. > > A disinterested party would probably assume that these two islands of > peoples would be highly interdependant and mutually supportive, but > commonly this is not the case at all. > > I recently exchanged a number of emails with several chip collectors > regarding a very rare RCA 1801 chip set. I have to say that dealing > with the chip collectors left me very confused. I do think that there > are some problems in the chip collecting community as a whole. > > This is not to say that there is anything intrinsically wrong with > collecting old and rare chips in itself. But the current ways in which > values are assigned to chips is very wrong, and this does lead to the > destruction of rare parts in some cases. > > As an example, one collector lists a RCA 1801 chip set at $1,500, for a > pair of IC's that have never been soldered onto a board, and are in > unknown functional condition. These same collectors will turn their > noses up at a much earlier, much less common RCA 1801 CPU assembly that > is unused new old stock. > > So vastly more value is placed on the fact that the parts 'look' new > than their actual rarity, or even the fact that RCA shipped and sold > this processor as a CPU assembly on a tiny PCB. Apparently the true > historical context of the 1801 CPU is less important than appearance, > and the same appears to be true of its functional condition as well. > The fact that RCA soldered the part onto a module lowers the value to a > greater degree than its rarity increases it, despite the fact that this > is what the part is for, or the implications on the functionality of the > parts? This is not an easy position to defend. You are correct. It's really an issue of condition. Chip collectors are kinda like coin collectors. A coin with a hole drilled in it so someone could wear it is "ruined" as far as most coin collectors are conerned. The fact that you could still spend the coin is irrelevant. Likewise, chip collectors want a chip to be as close to the condition it was when it came off the assembly line as possible. For example, if the 1801 set was not soldered on a board but was instead had the word "good" written on it with a magic marker you would also find that collectors would also frown on that. It's really no different that someone paying more for an "original" condition Altair 8800 verses paying less for one that has a few extra holes drilled in it, etc. > > I'm sure most would agree that a NOS CPU board is far more likley to be > functional that a pair of never-been-soldered chips. So we see that at > least in this case, appearance is more highly valued that actual rarity > or functionality, and even moreso that the true historical perspective > of the devices themselves. > > If we were to look at a similar collectable item, and the needed parts > to keep that collectable running, we find an excellent parallel in > antique pocket watches. Here is a collectable item that holds value, > and appreciates much like many vintage computers do today. The parts > are no longer made, and some parts wear and fail during normal operation > much like our vintage hardware does. > > Most of the stocks of repair parts for antique pocket watches come from > new old stocks found in various locations, but some people are forces to > scavenge parts from other non-working watches. Some people actually > collect repair parts for these facinating vintage machines, but only for > the purpose of restoring and repairing the watches, and not because the > parts themselves are assigned value seperate from the watch that uses them.. > > Mainsprings will fail, they are in effect, consumable parts (often > lasting for decades, but still consumable). New replacement mainsprings > for a turn-of-the-century Waltham watch are no longer made and are > becomming rather rare. Has the price of vintage Waltham mainsprings > shot upwards? > > No, not much at all, because at time goes by, fewer and fewer vintage > Waltham's cross watchmakers benches for repair. Value is based on > supply and demand in a simple and rational way. One good reason for > this is that there is zero practical value to collecting pocet watch > parts unless they are going to be used in repairing pocket watches, and > so the watch parts collectors are the same watchmakers who perform the > repairs. > > This is not how chip collecting is working today at all. Collectors are > collecting chips, yet are commonly disinterested in collecting the > machines that actually use these parts. Lacking and practical grounding > (or worse, electrical grounding) in the practical context of the parts, > their perceptions of value are often highly distorted to the point of > being flat-out wrong. > > But its clear that the development of the chip is a far more important > historical development than the many innovations in pocket watch design, > so the chip by itself has taken on an aura of collectability that just > does not reflect its actual value or historical context. One can > imagine that 50 years from now, someone might view an early > microprocessor chip with some respect, while today no one is going to be > impressed with a mainspring from a watch. > > But a fully operational vintage pocket watch will still be far far more > interesting than a dusty old chip of unknown (or unknowable) functional > condition. > > Taking the analogy between vintage computers and antuique watches a step > further, the situation we have today is as if the watchmakers (people > reparing old machines) and those collecting the parts needed for those > repairs are seperate groups (at least in part), and the parts collectors > are trying to assign value to the parts independantly from the value of > the machines needing those parts. > > So maybe chip collector #1 has a C8080 rather than a C8080A. Fine, so > what? If its just a chip sitting around its far less interesting > (historically) than any sort of 8080 thats actually running. This is no > different than a old but rather common pocket watch in perfect running > condition being more valuable than a much rarer pocket watch in poor > condition that does not run and needs parts that are not available. > > Also once that C8080 is placed into a collection of other 8080 CPU's, > its going to be assigned a higher value, 'Oh, I cannot sell just that > one, it would break up the set'. This only further distorts the > perception of value issue running through the chip collecting community, > and further seperates the parts from the machines that use them. > > So what (in my opinion) is wrong with chip collecting? Simply put, > vintage chip collecting as a seperate activity from the repair of > vintage hardware only serves to distort the value of the parts > themselves at the expense of those who do restore vintage hardware. > Based on every other collectable I'm aware of, the functional whole > item is always more valuable than the parts it contains. Either chip > collectors need to get a grip on their misperceptions of value, or > vintage machine collectors need to greatly re-assess the values of their > operational hardware. > > Probably equal measures of both are in order. I see your point concerning the part vs. the whole concept but chip collectors just don't think that way. I'm not sure why that is. I mean, people don't collector car alternators, pistons, etc (well maybe someone does but it would seem kinda strange) I guess the same goes for people who collect old phones. The fact that most phone collectors don't plug them into to a working antique phone system does not seem "odd". Now perhaps, if there was a group of "vintage phone system" enthusiasts they would complain that "phone collectors" are driving up the prices on vintage phones and making it harder for them to maintain their vintage phone systems. Why is an old phone is not viewed are part of a larger system? Why do people collect old phones but not old car alternators? I don't know but I bet that people will still be collecting old phones 100 years from now but I doubt that old car alternators will ever be a popular collectible. On the otherhand, I'm always amused when a vintage computer "collector" says they think that chip collecting is "odd". If there was ever a case of the pot calling the kettle black! You said "Either chip collectors need to get a grip on their misperceptions of value, or vintage machine collectors need to greatly re-assess the values of their operational hardware". I would suggest the later. I think that given their historical significance, rare vintage computers are drastically under valued. While values may go up and down over the short term, I fully expect that over the long term, prices on rare vintage computers are going to nowhere but up. Time will tell. > > > > > > > > From list at retrocomputing.gr Sun Nov 17 14:56:00 2002 From: list at retrocomputing.gr (Voyager-) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Acorns References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> <001b01c28e77$b7b881d0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <002e01c28e7b$39b01d80$0100a8c0@voyager4> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068515702&rd=1 ~$1600 for an Acorn A500 Prototype, was it really worth it !?!? From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Nov 17 15:28:00 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: [OT] digest vs. mail filtering (was Re: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help?) In-Reply-To: <19556631041.20021115152049@subatomix.com> References: <20021115141801.41829.17965.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <33120.64.169.63.74.1037374147.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <19556631041.20021115152049@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20021116173625.GA5291@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 03:20:49PM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, November 15, 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > On Linux (and Unix), procmail is commonly used for filtering, and is quite > > flexible > > Procmail + formail = excellent. I used them to build a system that makes > unknown senders go through a confirmation process. There are other packages > out there to do this, but a procmail solution was the easiest to implement > for me. It's basically a way to rid myself of spam forever. How does the confirmation process work? Sending unknown senders an email to identify themself als "human beings with a legitimate reason to send you email" or do you confirm them by hand? How do you identify the sender? Checking From: won't work, this headerline has been faked since the invention of SMTP. You might take a look at spamfilters employing bayesian (sp?) filters, they seem to work surprisingly well. > The last thing I want is to be digging through the backup file and find > something important that was not delivered. Thats why my simple .procmail rules for catching (some) spam _never_ drop mail altogether, but deliver into a dedicated folder, appropriately named "SPAM" which gets checks (just From: and Subject: lines) by hand once a week. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From hansp at aconit.org Sun Nov 17 15:31:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> <001b01c28e77$b7b881d0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3DD80AB6.4070408@aconit.org> John Galt wrote: > You said "Either chip collectors need to get a grip on their misperceptions > of value, or vintage machine collectors need to greatly re-assess the values > of their operational hardware". I would suggest the later. I think that > given their historical significance, rare vintage computers are drastically > under valued. While values may go up and down over the short term, I > fully expect that over the long term, prices on rare vintage computers > are going to nowhere but up. I would have to agree. Here at ACONIT we are about to transport a bunch of our old machiens for an exhibition. Obviously there is the question of insurance for which we need to value the machines. For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 (fifty thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become just another inert museum exhibit. A Micral-N, offered by another collection is valued by them at $15,000 even though it is not in working order and I suspect the components are not unobtanium. I have caluclated that our working PDP-9 is worth about $20,000 just from the man-hours we have already put into it to get it operating. Is it worth that much or more? It is one of only 5 or 6 known to exist and I think it is is only one in operation. Of course insurance value and actual market price are two different things, and we had many a lively discussion about how to value the old irreplaceable machines. Exhibition details : Musee de Grenoble, Grenoble, France : Nov 22 to Dec 2 inclusive. -- hbp From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Nov 17 17:07:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: <3DD80AB6.4070408@aconit.org> References: <004f01c28d9a$0f5d06b0$0100a8c0@sys1> <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> <001b01c28e77$b7b881d0$0100a8c0@sys1> <3DD80AB6.4070408@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20021117233435.GB12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Hans B Pufal, from writings of Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 10:31:34PM +0100: > Of course insurance value and actual market price are two different > things, and we had many a lively discussion about how to value the old > irreplaceable machines. Ah yes, the arguments between the sensible who rightly claim that these machines are not to be valued monetarily but in hack value by those who will trade them and give them away versus those [#&*@#%@*!] who collect them not for the fun of hacking on them, but for expected monetary rewards if, or when, the value increases over time. The later will result in the eventual destruction, or ensured uselessness, of compters, which will end up being stored away, unused, never modified and never repaired if they are used and cease to function, typically wasting away in some storage area somewhere waiting for the next auction. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Nov 17 17:28:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Hi All, A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER has just gotten an 11/45 in and has offered it to me and a couple of others before putting it up on ebay. He says that he wants $1000 or more for it, but in todays economy, who knows. I do not have any interest in this and would bargain with him for it myself, but my collection already includes an 11/45 and my wife would kill me. Here are details: His name et al: Patrick Lind, Reliable Computer Services Inc., 815-838-0134 His email: RELCOMSER@aol.com He is in the Chicago area (Lockport, IL) The specifics: One H960 with 11/45 including the following boards: M787, M8114, All M81?? so 15,12,13,00,01,02,03,04,05,06,08,07,09. M7800, M792-YD, M7800 Memory by Digital Pathways Inc. RVM 128K bds -2- boards. Also -1- RL02 in the same cabinet. Had -2- power supplies. Second H960 with a BAll-K & RL02 NOTE! The front panel has 6 of the plastic switch paddles broken off due to careless moving. He has also plugged it in, but says that he has no way of testing it. I know another guy who has a number of 11/70 front panels, some of which are only useful for parts, so these can be replaced. He made this offer to me, so I assume it applies to others: "We will sell one or both of the H960 cabinets. One has the 11/45 & RL02 with RL02K-DC pak One has a BAll-K & RL02 There are -2- H742-A power suplies with H744, H745, H7441regulators. We will supply -1- each of these regulators as good spares. Because of the age of this we are selling it AS IS, No Warranty. " He sent me some pics, which I will be happy to forward to anyone who is interested, or you can just send him some email. Again. I have no vested interest in this deal and I wish that I had the time, room, and money to pick it up myself. The 11/45 is one of my favorite machines. --tom From emu at ecubics.com Sun Nov 17 18:08:00 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3DD8309D.2080804@ecubics.com> Tom Uban wrote: > Hi All, > > A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER has just gotten an 11/45 in > and has offered it to me and a couple of others before putting it up on > ebay. He > says that he wants $1000 or more for it, but in todays economy, who knows. My "dream-machine" for a long time already. But $1K is far offffff ... > I do not have any interest in this and would bargain with him for it > myself, but my > collection already includes an 11/45 and my wife would kill me. ;-) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 17 18:49:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 17, 2 00:13:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021117/441264f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 17 18:49:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Good haul In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Nov 16, 2 10:46:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021117/a890f04f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 17 18:51:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? In-Reply-To: <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Nov 17, 2 11:10:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1639 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021117/6a24a538/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 17 18:56:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER has just gotten an 11/45 > in and has offered it to me and a couple of others before putting it up > on ebay. He says that he wants $1000 or more for it, but in todays > economy, who knows. I don't know. $1000 seems a bit steep for an 11/45. Especially one in unknown condition and with front panel switches busted off. Do any service manuals come with it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Nov 17 19:06:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Giving Y'all first dibs.... Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021117170843.030517a0@mail.zipcon.net> I have a still shrink wrapped Windows 3.00 on 3.5" 720K disks box. Any interest? From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 17 19:08:00 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: References: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 17, 2 00:13:03 am Message-ID: <20021118010955.BUXG12280.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Cap.. > > Maybe, but for one problen. Surface mount resistors are rarely orange. > Orange sounds more like a capacitor. Maybe it _is_ a capacitor and is > leaky. Maybe there's a resistor you've mised (yes, I know how easy it is > to do this, so I am not moaning). Yes it is a talutum (sp?) cap it's orange body and did it has tiny pip on one end? That's polarity, and much thicker and usually square cross section. I see this on high end quality boards and sometimes on CDC/Imprimis/Seagate HDs. Cheers, Wizard From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Nov 17 21:07:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: Tothwolf asks: >Are the two fans on the side of the power supply running properly? Both still seem to be. However, most of the tests I'm talking about are run with the lid off, and a small floor fan set up to blow over the mainboard (in the same direction as the small cooling fans). I think the airflow rate from this is much higher than the cooling fans would generate, but may not be in the right areas. >What type of hard drive do you have in the system? 1-Gig RZ26L. >Your mainboard may have a bad solder joint somewhere near the comparator, >which would explain the thermal issue. That tends to be the worst type of >problem to pinpoint too. It would, but unless the comparator or one of the voltage-divider resistors is intermittent, I'm at a loss to explain the varying voltage on the comparator input. I have physically shoved back and forth on all 3 components while it was running, no effect. Also I can't *see* any bad solder joint, but then I can barely see the two resistors anyway. >First you'll want to remove lower portion of the plastic shell. There are >5 screws on the bottom of the unit, 5 holes, only two screws left in mine. I should probably get some more screws, when I get everything put back together. >and two clips on the front edge. I see them. The plastic has to deform a log way before it'll release, but I'll try it tonight. >Next you'll need to remove the graphics board, Yeah, that is tricky. Done it a couple times during earlier testing. The problem first appeared when I was first using the graphics board, so I blamed it. But I think it's working OK. At least for the moment, I'm doing all the testing with a VT320 on the MMJ console port, so I have to connect/disconnect less stuff when taking things apart. >Once the graphics board is out, there are 3 more phillips screws at the >back edge of the mainboard. The plastic clips pull up to release, but with >the bottom shell off, you can use something to push them up from the >underside. Ok, that's a big help. If I can get the shell off I'll try poking them out. >Certainly make sure they are discharged before you remove them, if you >decide to replace them after all ;) Ok. Short through a resistor for a minute or two? But I'm thinking right now the comparator is the first target for replace, followed by the SMD resistors if that doesn't do it. - Mark From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Nov 17 22:15:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117221236.0543d048@ubanproductions.com> At 08:59 AM 11/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER has just gotten an 11/45 > > in and has offered it to me and a couple of others before putting it up > > on ebay. He says that he wants $1000 or more for it, but in todays > > economy, who knows. > >I don't know. $1000 seems a bit steep for an 11/45. Especially one in >unknown condition and with front panel switches busted off. Perhaps so, but maybe someone will save it from the metal scrapper, or maybe this guy will come down in price. I don't really want to get in the middle of this, but I hate seeing another machine get taken apart even more... I think that it is actually a bit fortunate that the front panel is damaged. It means that it won't be removed for the quick $100+ that they seem to bring on ebay, all by themselves. The 11/45 is a very important machine in the DEC 11 lineup. It is the oldest with split I/D, which means that it can run some pretty significant software. >Do any service manuals come with it? If Al doesn't have copies, I do... --tom >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Sun Nov 17 22:21:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3DD86AA7.1030007@internet1.net> Tom Uban wrote: > Hi All, > > A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER ......... > His name et al: Patrick Lind, Reliable Computer Services Inc., 815-838-0134 > His email: RELCOMSER@aol.com > He is in the Chicago area (Lockport, IL) That's "patrick-j", relcomser isn't a valid ebay username. Maybe he changed it at some point. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 17 23:54:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Gripes was Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <004201c28e6d$d3ca38a0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > This mailing list has a function besides being a private battleground > for the two of us. I think everyone here understands our positions and > has now drawn their conclusions. Probably. But my conclusion remains that you are a serious jackass. > I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the fact that you are > resorting to name calling and insults ("fool", "dweeb", "not > very bright", etc) is pretty pathetic and proves that you have > nothing more than insults to contribute to this issue. I think that what you think matters not. What you actually say, and what you actually have to offer this mailing list (and the computer collecting community as a whole) is far more important. So far, the only messages you have posted here in recent memory have been personal attacks and unsubstantiated allegations. In other words, you've been a drain on resources. I won't speak for anyone other than myself when I say that you have offered absolutely nothing of value to us. I have a record of nearly six years of contributions to the mailing list plus numerous public events held to benefit this little community of ours. My reputation stands on its own. > While I would love to continue toying with you just to watch you destroy > what little credibility you have left, I know that the other members of > the mailing list must be growing tired of this. Oh, I'm sure they tired of this long ago, and the very few that are still reading along probably see this as simply a battle between two idiots. In that case, I willingly cede this to you. You are definitely the bigger idiot. > I am too and I will not respond to anymore of your insults. Excellent. But maybe you would be kind enough to respond in private e-mail with the proof I've asked you to provide me which I have yet to receive? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 18 00:02:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? In-Reply-To: <001b01c28e77$b7b881d0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote: > On the otherhand, I'm always amused when a vintage computer "collector" > says they think that chip collecting is "odd". If there was ever a case > of the pot calling the kettle black! When has anyone ever said that? > You said "Either chip collectors need to get a grip on their > misperceptions of value, or vintage machine collectors need to greatly > re-assess the values of their operational hardware". I would suggest the > later. I think that given their historical significance, rare vintage > computers are drastically under valued. While values may go up and down > over the short term, I fully expect that over the long term, prices on > rare vintage computers are going to nowhere but up. I suggest the former. Prices for old computers are fairly well established by now. These prices are independent of, for instance, the CPU that may power the computer. For example, if a SOL-20 goes on the market, chances are it could fetch up to $1,200, regardless of whether it had an Intel C8080 on the original Processor Technology CPU board or if it had a Cromemco ZPU with a Zilog Z80 (even a first run Z80). The CPU has no bearing on the valuation of the machine. Two things are for certain: one, as you allude so brilliantly, is that in the long term the prices of (certain) vintage computers will rise; two, in the short term the prices of old chips will fall. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 18 00:06:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: <3DD80AB6.4070408@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > I would have to agree. Here at ACONIT we are about to transport a bunch > of our old machiens for an exhibition. Obviously there is the question > of insurance for which we need to value the machines. > > For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 (fifty > thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine > inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become just > another inert museum exhibit. > > A Micral-N, offered by another collection is valued by them at $15,000 > even though it is not in working order and I suspect the components are > not unobtanium. > > I have caluclated that our working PDP-9 is worth about $20,000 just > from the man-hours we have already put into it to get it operating. Is > it worth that much or more? It is one of only 5 or 6 known to exist and > I think it is is only one in operation. > > Of course insurance value and actual market price are two different > things, and we had many a lively discussion about how to value the old > irreplaceable machines. As a person who does appraisals on vintage computers (including for insurance valuations), I can say that the values you ascribed in this case are completely valid. My valuations are generally based on what a certain machine would be likely to fetch at a well publicized auction, taking into account the rarity of a machine and the desirability, based on factors such as physical and functioning condition. It is also completely acceptable to base value partly on the amount of work that went into restoring a machine. If you ever need help with this in the future then let me know ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 18 03:24:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 (fifty >> thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine >> inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become just > > another inert museum exhibit. How would a claim actually work, ie a forklift hits a bump and the shipping pallet tips over. The damage appears cosmetic, but when the unit is powered up, the sparks fly and magic smoke is released. Board "c" is toast, and none are know to exist as replacements. What happens? Do they get a chance to make repairs, as they see fit. Do they cut you a $50k check, AND let you keep the inert system? Something else? From hansp at aconit.org Mon Nov 18 03:54:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers References: Message-ID: <3DD8B90C.1000902@aconit.org> Mike Ford wrote: >> For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 >> (fifty thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine >> inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become >> just another inert museum exhibit. > How would a claim actually work, ie a forklift hits a bump and the > shipping pallet tips over. The damage appears cosmetic, but when the > unit is powered up, the sparks fly and magic smoke is released. Board > "c" is toast, and none are know to exist as replacements. > > What happens? > > Do they get a chance to make repairs, as they see fit. > Do they cut you a $50k check, AND let you keep the inert system? > Something else? Good questions, I hope I never have the opportunity to reply form experience! If thaere are any insurance experts around I'd be interested in their comments. -- hbp From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 18 07:52:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: <3DD86AA7.1030007@internet1.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021118075342.01ab4778@ubanproductions.com> Ops, you are right. I was mixing up his email with his ebay name... Sorry! --tom At 11:20 PM 11/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Tom Uban wrote: >>Hi All, >>A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER ......... > > >>His name et al: Patrick Lind, Reliable Computer Services Inc., 815-838-0134 >>His email: RELCOMSER@aol.com >>He is in the Chicago area (Lockport, IL) > >That's "patrick-j", relcomser isn't a valid ebay username. Maybe he >changed it at some point. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 18 08:35:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: On disassembly: Toth wrote: >First you'll want to remove lower portion of the plastic shell. There are >5 screws on the bottom of the unit, and two clips on the front edge. Figured out how to release those. Stuff a flat-head screwdriver blade in from the bottom side, so it slides between the plastic clip and the metal tab it locks over. That way it's pretty easy to lever the plastic *only* far enough to disengage. >Once the graphics board is out, there are 3 more phillips screws at the >back edge of the mainboard. The plastic clips pull up to release, but with >the bottom shell off, you can use something to push them up from the >underside. That works. I used the point of needle-nosed pliers as a pin-driver (set in place, hold the handles, use the other hand to hammer on the one holding the pliers). Once the pins were driven mostly out, the whole clip could be wriggled out with not too much trouble. I still hate those clips. What do they do that a screw and lockwasher wouldn't do better? Big help! Thanks! I had the motherboard out in my hands last night, so I'm ready to go to work desoldering either the comparator or the resistors. Anyone have any educated guesses which one to try first? - Mark From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Nov 18 10:10:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <002b01c28d96$0e67ce10$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3DD91F57.22755.1AA84CA1@localhost> > What would I do with an Altair 8800? I'm not sure. I would like to have > one > simply for it's historic value but there's no way in hell I would hang out > with > people like you if that's what it took to restore it to working order. > Sellam, you > come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage computer > community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your > hobby. > That said, I'm sure you are a brilliant dude and you probably think you are > doing > what's best for your hobby but I think you are going about it in the wrong > way. I'd suggest holding your breath before you're sliping to far into this. Sallam may not be the Wolds most sweet-tempered guy (unless you ask Maria), but he'll a hell of a promotor and supporter of our hobby. Due this hobby I leared to know some realy decent who put dedication into computer colecting, and Sallam is for shure peer among them. Due his nature he is prone to bite on flame bait like you're offering. Using this isn't exactly a gentle way of cooperation. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Nov 18 10:21:01 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <3DD91F57.22755.1AA84CA1@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 18, 02 05:11:51 pm Message-ID: <200211181621.LAA16181@wordstock.com> Thusly John spake: > come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage computer > community can not find someone with a better bed side manner to promote your > hobby. And Sellam responds: "I'm a vintage computer collector John, not a doctor!" Cheers, Bryan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Nov 18 10:30:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: References: <00a301c28d25$e4934bc0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3DD92421.20781.1ABB01C0@localhost> > > 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without > > chip collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips. > > Sure you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also > > have people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not > > worth listing on EBAY. > If there were far more chips than vintage computers, "chip collectors" > would not be searching out old computer boards to steal chips from. If the > chips were more common than the computers they make up, "chip collectors" > would have no trouble sourcing the parts they desire for their > "collection"... Hrm, doesn't that defeat the purpose of collecting chips, > if they are not **RARE**? Well, I have to admit, I salvaged computer board on a regular base (and still do this (*1)). Basicly my whole pile of spare parts are used chips. I can relate to do so, so no hard feeling in the basic facts. I just get terrible upset about ship collecting when I see what is taken from the boards... just two or three components with 'great' names, and throw away the rest. The real raere stuff lies among the support chips or just plain TTLs. A 8080 CPU replacement is still quite easy to come by, but what about some weired shift registers, or clock generators? The kind of scrapping done here is to me like some self proclaimed hunter shoot aTiger just to get a photo (since they are not allowed to get the fur legaly back home), or poachers who shoot an Elephant just to sell the teeth to some which doctors, and let teh rest rot away. Don't get me wrong, I'm a meat eater, and I got no problem in killing an animal. Just if I doo so, the whole cadaver is supposed to be processed. Gruss H. (*1) Now everybody is free to jump on me for using a heatgun to unsolder a bunch of 8080 boards last week. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cb at mythtech.net Mon Nov 18 10:50:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Intel MCA Above Board Message-ID: I have an MCA board here (probably pulled from a PS/2, but I really am not sure where it came from). Its marked as an Intel Above Board MC. And currently has 8 30 pin SIMMS on it (1 MB each it looks like). From what I can find, I think this is just a normal above board memory expansion card (max 32 MB?) However, there is also a 50 pin IDC connector on it. Is that for connecting to a daughter card? I just want to confirm that fact, and that this isn't really some kind of a SCSI controller with a nice buffer on it. I thought the Above Boards were just memory cards, but you never know. (maybe if I could find something about them on Intel's site... but their AboveBoards support section seems to have vanished) -chris From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 18 10:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:57 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > > > For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 (fifty > >> thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine > >> inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become just > > > another inert museum exhibit. > > How would a claim actually work, ie a forklift hits a bump and the > shipping pallet tips over. The damage appears cosmetic, but when the > unit is powered up, the sparks fly and magic smoke is released. Board > "c" is toast, and none are know to exist as replacements. > > What happens? > > Do they get a chance to make repairs, as they see fit. > Do they cut you a $50k check, AND let you keep the inert system? > Something else? From jss at subatomix.com Mon Nov 18 10:57:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: PDP 11/45 available in the Chicago area In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021117171317.01af73f8@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <131255565.20021118105820@subatomix.com> On Sunday, November 17, 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > A dealer who usually sells on ebay as RELCOMSER has just gotten an 11/45 > in and has offered it ... $1000 or more for it > > One H960 with 11/45 ... RL02 in the same cabinet. ... Second H960 with a > BAll-K & RL02 ... The front panel has 6 of the plastic switch paddles > broken off due to careless moving. ... "AS IS, No Warranty" Gosh, the /45 is a cool machine, but $1K is too high. For that price I'd expect better condition, some RK05s, possibly a tape unit, a terminal, and some software or documentation. At that level they should at least *think* it works, also. I think $300-400 is a better price for this deal. -- Jeffrey Sharp From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Nov 18 11:20:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) Message-ID: At least $1500, ending today.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071171983 >From: Sellam Ismail >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting? >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:04:53 -0800 (PST) > >I suggest the former. Prices for old computers are fairly well >established by now. These prices are independent of, for instance, the >CPU that may power the computer. For example, if a SOL-20 goes on the >market, chances are it could fetch up to $1,200, regardless of whether it >had an Intel C8080 on the original Processor Technology CPU board or if >it had a Cromemco ZPU with a Zilog Z80 (even a first run Z80). The CPU >has no bearing on the valuation of the machine. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 18 11:25:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118092330.02af3d90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > From my experience, they would most likely pay out the claim (perhaps >after disputing it a bit, but then they will probably have scrutinized >it from the get go since it would be such an odd item to insure, and the >value would probably have to be ascertained by an appraiser) and then take >ownership of the original, and then either destroy it or try to recover >some of the expense of the claim by selling it (either for scrap or as a >collectible perhaps). Precisely my concern, worthless insurance, unless you do it VERY carefully. What classic collector would be willing to accept the insurance money if they knew the carrier wonld be scrapping the unit with assurded distruction etc. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Nov 18 11:46:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: <3DD8B90C.1000902@aconit.org> Message-ID: <000001c28f2a$84fff300$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I'm not an insurance expert but my past experience with other insurance claims (and my innate cynicism) leads me to believe that the insurance company in question will do the minimum due diligence to determine the actual replacement cost of the unit and if the unit is indeed a complete loss. They will then offer you something less then its determined value (assuming they don't claim it's reparable) to see if you'll bite. Whatever they offer is typically negotiable to a point and they pretty much expect you to challenge their valuation. The burden is then on you to prove your figures. If you do accept a payment for the unit then it becomes the property of the insurance company. You do have the option of asking for the remains back, but you'll be charged what the insurer thinks they are worth. If you have a "declared value" policy (which is common with classic automobiles) then you don't worry about the initial negotiations. The insurer will pay the declared value upon a loss. You then just have to negotiate to get what's left back which can be just as challenging. Erik www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Hans B Pufal Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 1:55 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Value of classic computers Mike Ford wrote: >> For a working IBM 1130 we have set an insurance value of $50,000 >> (fifty thousand) on the grounds that any damage which makes the machine >> inoperable will probaly be irrepariable and the machine will become >> just another inert museum exhibit. > How would a claim actually work, ie a forklift hits a bump and the > shipping pallet tips over. The damage appears cosmetic, but when the > unit is powered up, the sparks fly and magic smoke is released. Board > "c" is toast, and none are know to exist as replacements. > > What happens? > > Do they get a chance to make repairs, as they see fit. > Do they cut you a $50k check, AND let you keep the inert system? > Something else? Good questions, I hope I never have the opportunity to reply form experience! If thaere are any insurance experts around I'd be interested in their comments. -- hbp From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 18 11:49:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers References: Message-ID: <3DD92874.19856EFA@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > > > Do they get a chance to make repairs, as they see fit. > > Do they cut you a $50k check, AND let you keep the inert system? > > Something else? > > >From my experience, they would most likely pay out the claim (perhaps > after disputing it a bit, but then they will probably have scrutinized > it from the get go since it would be such an odd item to insure, and the > value would probably have to be ascertained by an appraiser) and then take > ownership of the original, and then either destroy it or try to recover > some of the expense of the claim by selling it (either for scrap or as a > collectible perhaps). I had a similar situation a few years ago when a computer was shipped up to Oregon/Washington. Among other damages, the box was subjected to enough shock that the processor was jarred from its socket and was rattling around loose in the case. In the agreement with the shipping company, the insurance was paid ($1500 or so) and the box bought back for IIRC $300.00. That way, no additional shipping or disposal expense was incurred by the insurance company. BTW, the CPU (Pentium 133) was fine after all the pins were straightened out, and worked for several years until taken out of service. From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Nov 18 11:54:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-410 Message-ID: There's one that I just saw get unloaded a few minutes ago at Purdue University Salvage. Looks to be in good condition... except it's laying outside on its side since they regard big things like it as 'junk'. Well, if anyone's interested and nearby, drop me an email and I'll get you more details. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll last too long outside - they may end up dumping more stuff on top of it, or mother nature may end up dumping stuff on top. I would get it myself but I don't have any way to get it, let alone somewhere to store it. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Nov 18 12:02:12 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Even scarier: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072033128 This is an Altair 8800 with 6 days left that has already reached $4,000. One reason, I'm sure, is the addendum to the auction which reads: "In response to several inquiries, the microprocessor on the first CPU card is indeed a C8080 with no suffix (please see photo below). For those of you who are not familiar with it, the C8080 was the earliest version of this microprocessor and is the most sought after and valuable of all the early Intel microprocessors. A C8080 chip alone can sell for $700-$1000 depending on condition" "However, it has been brought to my attention that the chip shown below is an early production version of the 8080, made in 1973 at an Intel subcontractor's assembly plant in Tijuana, Mexico. It is a very rare chip, which might be worth 1.5x the value of a more typical C8080." "I would like to thank Steve of The Antique Chip Collector's Page (http://www.antiquetech.com) for his help in researching the background of this chip." I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the auction. Erik www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen Slick Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) At least $1500, ending today.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071171983 >From: Sellam Ismail >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting? >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:04:53 -0800 (PST) > >I suggest the former. Prices for old computers are fairly well >established by now. These prices are independent of, for instance, the >CPU that may power the computer. For example, if a SOL-20 goes on the >market, chances are it could fetch up to $1,200, regardless of whether it >had an Intel C8080 on the original Processor Technology CPU board or if >it had a Cromemco ZPU with a Zilog Z80 (even a first run Z80). The CPU >has no bearing on the valuation of the machine. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ipscone at msdsite.com Mon Nov 18 12:12:00 2002 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: <000001c28f2a$84fff300$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: <3DD8B90C.1000902@aconit.org> <000001c28f2a$84fff300$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <4927.12.13.226.98.1037643237.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > Whatever they offer is typically negotiable to a point and they pretty > much expect you to challenge their valuation. The burden is then on you > to prove your figures. I don't really think this is true. They accept your premium based on what you tell them the value is. If they want to dispute that, they should do it prior to accepting your premium. Now, unless someone is trying to defraud the insurance companies, lawyer's expenses will be part of any judgement. I doubt very seriously that insurance companies want to take these things to court, expecially on ones they can't prevail on. BTW, I had an insurance claim filed on an IMSAI that I shipped to Italy (FedEx). FedEx called me and asked how much it was worth. I told them and they paid the claim. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Nov 18 12:16:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) References: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3DD92E6C.4070409@jetnet.ab.ca> Erik S. Klein wrote: > Even scarier: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072033128 > > This is an Altair 8800 with 6 days left that has already reached $4,000. > I don't think it is the chip collectors that is the problem but rather the bidding style of marketing that is the problem. Ben. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 12:20:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > On disassembly: > Toth wrote: > > > First you'll want to remove lower portion of the plastic shell. There > > are 5 screws on the bottom of the unit, and two clips on the front > > edge. > > Figured out how to release those. Stuff a flat-head screwdriver blade in > from the bottom side, so it slides between the plastic clip and the > metal tab it locks over. That way it's pretty easy to lever the plastic > *only* far enough to disengage. [Correction, there are 4 screws that hold the bottom cover on, the 5th hole isn't used to screw the cover to the metal chassis.] I have a collection of flat tools made from things like drive mounting slides and slot protectors, one of which was nearly perfect for this. > > Once the graphics board is out, there are 3 more phillips screws at > > the back edge of the mainboard. The plastic clips pull up to release, > > but with the bottom shell off, you can use something to push them up > > from the underside. > > That works. I used the point of needle-nosed pliers as a pin-driver (set > in place, hold the handles, use the other hand to hammer on the one > holding the pliers). Once the pins were driven mostly out, the whole > clip could be wriggled out with not too much trouble. I still hate those > clips. What do they do that a screw and lockwasher wouldn't do better? I used another one of those flat tools I mentioned above to push the pin up, then just pulled it the rest of the way out my hand. Those clips in some ways are better than screws. They are very fast to install, and won't come out on their own. Of course, beings as the VLC was built low cost, that might also have had something to do with DEC deciding to use those clips. I have some rack-mountable gear that uses similar clips that have a larger diameter to mount their front panels. It makes it very easy to remove the panels to change settings or troubleshoot. > Big help! Thanks! I had the motherboard out in my hands last night, so > I'm ready to go to work desoldering either the comparator or the > resistors. Anyone have any educated guesses which one to try first? No idea. Have you checked the solder joints and connections between components with an ohm meter? That might help turn up any problems. -Toth From benb at Basit.COM Mon Nov 18 12:23:25 2002 From: benb at Basit.COM (Benedict Bridgewater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices Message-ID: <200211181824.gAIIOfH02824@misrad.basit.com> Actually there's two SOL's currently on eBay. The 2nd one is currently "only" $500 or so: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071406461 The difference being that it has no documentation (which I suspect accounts for the price difference), and also it only has a single card in it - a non-PT 64K memory card (I asked the seller if it was PT or not). In recent history SOL's have sold for anywhere from $490 to $2500! Documentation also seems to be what has so far driven this Altair to $4K: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072033128 Ben Glen Slick wrote: >At least $1500, ending today.... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071171983 > > >>From: Sellam Ismail >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: >>Subject: Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting? >>Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:04:53 -0800 (PST) >> > >>I suggest the former. Prices for old computers are fairly well >>established by now. These prices are independent of, for instance, the >>CPU that may power the computer. For example, if a SOL-20 goes on the >>market, chances are it could fetch up to $1,200, regardless of whether it >>had an Intel C8080 on the original Processor Technology CPU board or if >>it had a Cromemco ZPU with a Zilog Z80 (even a first run Z80). The CPU >>has no bearing on the valuation of the machine. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 12:27:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Even scarier: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072033128 > > This is an Altair 8800 with 6 days left that has already reached $4,000. > > One reason, I'm sure, is the addendum to the auction which reads: > > "In response to several inquiries, the microprocessor on the first CPU > card is indeed a C8080 with no suffix (please see photo below). For > those of you who are not familiar with it, the C8080 was the earliest > version of this microprocessor and is the most sought after and valuable > of all the early Intel microprocessors. A C8080 chip alone can sell for > $700-$1000 depending on condition" > > "However, it has been brought to my attention that the chip shown below > is an early production version of the 8080, made in 1973 at an Intel > subcontractor's assembly plant in Tijuana, Mexico. It is a very rare > chip, which might be worth 1.5x the value of a more typical C8080." > > "I would like to thank Steve of The Antique Chip Collector's Page > (http://www.antiquetech.com) for his help in researching the background > of this chip." > > I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the > stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip > collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the > other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something > substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the > auction. This is one of the reasons why I despise most "chip collectors". -Toth From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Nov 18 12:47:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter Message-ID: <200211181848.gAIImMg17481@io.crash.com> > I've got one, but it's occupying a place of honor in my collection. > The rest are sitting in my RA-82, which I'm not about to take apart. > These things are hard to come by, [...] About twelve years ago a friend and I were poking around MITs Surplus Property Office. Amongst all the cool "junque" was a pair of RP06 drives and some disk packs. With apologies now to the poor sods wanting an RP06 to hook up to their KS10 or something, I bought one of the disk packs for $5 or something and took it back to the office. I think I was able to deconstruct the whole thing with just hand tools. Resulted in a nice supply of 14" platters for gifts and wall art. In fact just yesterday I was using one of those platters to explain to someone what went on inside the Seagate ST-4051 she was holding, and to show the progression of storage technology... If you really needed a 14" platter for display, look around for a bad RL01/02 disk pack, there's one platter in each pack. Much easier than trying to bust open an HDA... --Steve. From jss at subatomix.com Mon Nov 18 13:10:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 Message-ID: <829262739.20021118131147@subatomix.com> I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan by the list and see if there are any problems. Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push it upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the enclosure, will it? -- Jeffrey Sharp From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Nov 18 13:20:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices Message-ID: What does PT / non-PT mean in this context? >From: Benedict Bridgewater >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:24:41 -0500 (EST) > >Actually there's two SOL's currently on eBay. > >The 2nd one is currently "only" $500 or so: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071406461 > >The difference being that it has no documentation (which I suspect accounts >for >the price difference), and also it only has a single card in it - a non-PT >64K >memory card (I asked the seller if it was PT or not). > >In recent history SOL's have sold for anywhere from $490 to $2500! > >Documentation also seems to be what has so far driven this Altair to $4K: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072033128 > >Ben _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Nov 18 13:26:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >The difference being that it has no documentation (which I suspect > >accounts for the price difference), and also it only has a single > >card in it - a non-PT 64K memory card (I asked the seller if it was > >PT or not). > What does PT / non-PT mean in this context? Processor Technology, the company that manufactured the SOL. From bernd at kopriva.de Mon Nov 18 13:30:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 Message-ID: <18DrcB-1NNgW0C@fmrl10.sul.t-online.com> After a long with HP i lost ... ... they are not able to give me any operating system for my HP9000/382. They told me, that they won't support that machine anymore, and they don't have any installation media ... ... they told me, that i've to look "elsewhere" :-( ... so i'm asking here, if there is anyone out, who will share a copy ... Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 18 13:50:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter Message-ID: I've opened bad ones with water pump pliers, just firmly grip the weirdo bolts and apply mucho force, and they turn. BTW the screws/bolts/whatever they are appear to be copper... And no, I don't have any platters, I took em to the scrapyard a while ago. Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 13:59:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: <20021117233435.GB12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Ah yes, the arguments between the sensible who rightly claim that these > machines are not to be valued monetarily but in hack value by those who > will trade them and give them away versus those [#&*@#%@*!] who collect > them not for the fun of hacking on them, but for expected monetary > rewards if, or when, the value increases over time. I _very recently_ had the unfortunate experience in having to deal with a "collector" who seems to fit your description of the second group. I invited the "collector" along on a rescue of a fair number of systems, with a prior understanding that I'd get first pick, but he showed up unannounced (didn't call ahead) and early (he got there before I had planned to be there), and ended up snatching most of the usable hardware out from under me. The stuff he took included a number of systems and parts which I had intended to put to immediate use, as well some stuff that I had intended to pass on to some other people, including some other list members. As it turned out, I more or less got the scrap and seconds, which really isn't the kind of hardware one can immediately put to use. In the end, that "collector" will be the one who looses out though, as I will not again ever even consider sending him to someone who has hardware they want to give to a good home, nor will I inform him of or invite him along on any future equipment rescues. The "collector" later had the audacity to complain to the person who gave away the equipment that I got "all the good stuff", and that I got some of the systems that he had wanted. That "collector" more or less wanted everything to himself, and didn't care if he had to step on toes to get it. I also cannot believe that this is the first time that "collector" has pulled that stunt, as he had it very well rehearsed, and managed to trick even me...just long enough for him to get even more of the equipment he wanted. What really burns me, is that I had been working on arranging this rescue since June. The list members who emailed me privately back then about some of that gear will know exactly what I'm talking about. I really wish it had turned out better... > The later will result in the eventual destruction, or ensured > uselessness, of compters, which will end up being stored away, unused, > never modified and never repaired if they are used and cease to > function, typically wasting away in some storage area somewhere waiting > for the next auction. Sadly, In my experience, this is indeed usually the outcome of collecting hardware for expected monetary increase. The type of hardware the typical hardware hacker prefers is often considered junk by folks who don't use these older computers, so much of it is likely to either be dumped, or sold to a scrap dealer if it is ever auctioned off in bulk. I have a few systems in various states of repair which are worth a considerable sum, but I don't think I'd ever be able to force myself to give or sell them to a "collector" who would not actually use them. -Toth From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Nov 18 14:04:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <829262739.20021118131147@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118140135.03cfce60@127.0.0.1> Jeffrey, Use a courier or "hotshot" service. Save yourself some effort and chiropractic fees.... I use a courier service to move my arcade games around. It costs me $25 to have a guy in an enclosed liftgate-equipped truck go to the trucking terminal (about 15 miles away), load up the 350 lb. crate, bring it to my house, and drop it off in my garage. I imagine that you may be able to find a service near you that does the same. It's cheaper than injuring yourself (potentially), and they are better equipped to make moves like this. Just a thought - might save you some trouble..... (and your back) : ) - Matt At 01:11 PM 11/18/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. >Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my >garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan by >the list and see if there are any problems. > >Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old >mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the >mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push it >upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. > >My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the >enclosure, will it? > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021118/2f8fb007/attachment.html From red at bears.org Mon Nov 18 14:19:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > What really burns me, is that I had been working on arranging this rescue > since June. The list members who emailed me privately back then about some > of that gear will know exactly what I'm talking about. I really wish it > had turned out better... Oh, no way. That wasn't the lot of IRIS boards, was it? ok r. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 18 14:21:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: New aquisition - IBM 3278/3279 emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021118202305.25381.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > What are you planning on hooking it to? > > > ...an IBM P/N 53F6425 ISA 3278/3279 emulation card... > > > > The manual makes vague reference to "your application software", so > > that's what I'm looking for info on. Since I used to make/sell SNA gear, I kinda just expected to eventually have a PU Type 2 of some kind to hook it to rather than attempting to locate/ship/heft a real 3278. If someone has an immediate need, I'm willing to part with it. I will probably not plug it in within the next 12 months. It was something of an impulse buy, really. OTOH, tomorrow is Uni Surplus day - and they had an unpriced 3274. Make a nice coffee table/cluster controller. ;-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 14:41:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > What really burns me, is that I had been working on arranging this > > rescue since June. The list members who emailed me privately back then > > about some of that gear will know exactly what I'm talking about. I > > really wish it had turned out better... > > Oh, no way. That wasn't the lot of IRIS boards, was it? Nope, it was a local rescue. You didn't end up with the IRIS boards did you? ;P A number of list members were interested in different parts and systems that were available, but the owner did not have the resources to pack and ship stuff to different people. I had planned to pack and ship some of the things people had emailed me about, but since I didn't end up with most of the goodies, not much I can do. -Toth From red at bears.org Mon Nov 18 14:50:00 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers (was Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > Oh, no way. That wasn't the lot of IRIS boards, was it? > > Nope, it was a local rescue. You didn't end up with the IRIS boards did > you? ;P No, after the initial confusion, I said I'd let you take care of it, and I meant it. ok r. From tiziano.garuti at tin.it Mon Nov 18 15:16:00 2002 From: tiziano.garuti at tin.it (Tiziano) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Apple /// help needed References: <20021118180001.77959.22589.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <004501c28f48$268eb860$0101a8c0@tiziano98> Hi to everybody. I am in trouble with my beatiful Apple ///, the internal floppy drive is dead. I think that this is a mechanical problem, but I am not sure. Is there a test to check the hardware of the drive ? Another problem is with the Profile drive. I can get the files list via System utilities, but at the end of the list, I get a message like: "Warning: structure directory corrupted". Is there a way to fix this problem? Booting from Business Basic, the "catalog .profile" command is show in a window of 3 or 4 chr width! Why? Perhaps is the same problem with the corrupted directory. Any help will be apreciated :-) Bye Tiziano From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 18 15:48:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Value of classic computers In-Reply-To: References: <20021117233435.GB12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118133650.009f42e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >I _very recently_ had the unfortunate experience in having to deal with a >"collector" who seems to fit your description of the second group. I >invited the "collector" along on a rescue of a fair number of systems, >with a prior understanding that I'd get first pick, but he showed up >unannounced (didn't call ahead) and early (he got there before I had I used to go to a scrap yard where a good half dozen people would be lined up waiting for the gate to open, and people would literally run to the back to see the pallets of new stuff and stake out the stuff they wanted. Personality flaws were often revealed. I'm not shy, when I take somebody to a source of goodies, I lay out ground rules, and if they aren't accepted and followed, they don't get access anymore if I can manage it. OTOH this is my hobby, and I recognize for many people this is what puts food on the table and pays the rent. OTOOH I know a couple guys who absolutely refuse to reveal any sources of any kind, AND who often make hardline arrangements with all their sources, ie I accidently find a place on my own, but when I make an offer for some stuff I find out all deals get run past the person I know. I so detest this practice that I do try not to emulate it. From curt at atari-history.com Mon Nov 18 16:21:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:58 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: <829262739.20021118131147@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <003d01c28f50$b4fb9f20$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Jeff, I wouldn't lay it on its side, if anything, lay it on its back. Its a steel reinforced cabinet and shouldn't really bend/twist at all. All I would recommend is upon unloading it, speed a great deal of time unseating every component (p/s, boards etc...) and reseat everything prior to power up.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 > I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. > Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my > garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan by > the list and see if there are any problems. > > Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old > mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the > mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push it > upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. > > My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the > enclosure, will it? > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 18 16:31:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it] In-Reply-To: <200211181621.LAA16181@wordstock.com> References: <3DD91F57.22755.1AA84CA1@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 18, 02 05:11:51 pm Message-ID: <3DD90D51.6036.23CDED4D@localhost> A great giggle. Heh-heh-heh. I have a young golden lab cross I named Jimmy. I regularly use a phrase from StarTrek to him, to my own amusement. For example his curiousity in a bug crawling across the floor is extinguished when I step on it, and to his nosing the remains in consternation I respond, "Goddam-it, he's dead Jim, he's dead." Lawrence > > Thusly John spake: > > come off as an arrogant a-hole. It's a shame that the vintage > > computer community can not find someone with a better bed side manner > > to promote your hobby. > > And Sellam responds: > "I'm a vintage computer collector John, not a doctor!" > > Cheers, > > Bryan > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 18 16:31:34 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Intel MCA Above Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DD90D51.18634.23CDED84@localhost> I'm an MCA freak and have a good majority of the PS/2 models. The IBM internal SCCI connector was 50pin and some models had onboard SCSI as you likely know. I checked my archives and got this from an MCA AboveBoard thread I culled from the PS/2 newsgroup. No mention in the thread about a 50pin connector tho. Mainly about getting the memory recognized. The memory chips were as you describe. ftp://download.intel.com/enduser_reseller/above_board_memory_boar ds/abmc.exe Includes the SOFTSET.exe utility It came up blank and the archive no longer had the enduser_reseller folder. Some zealous employee must have seen the reseller title and deleted it. Blast !! That means the Softset.exe is also likely gone. > I have an MCA board here (probably pulled from a PS/2, but I really am > not sure where it came from). > > Its marked as an Intel Above Board MC. And currently has 8 30 pin SIMMS > on it (1 MB each it looks like). From what I can find, I think this is > just a normal above board memory expansion card (max 32 MB?) Most early PS/2s had a 16MB limit from the 8580 on, but there were workarounds. > > However, there is also a 50 pin IDC connector on it. Is that for > connecting to a daughter card? I just want to confirm that fact, and > that this isn't really some kind of a SCSI controller with a nice buffer > on it. I thought the Above Boards were just memory cards, but you never > know. (maybe if I could find something about them on Intel's site... but > their AboveBoards support section seems to have vanished) > > -chris > > Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Nov 18 17:03:00 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: <829262739.20021118131147@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <007f01c28f56$c783d3a0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 5:41 AM Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 > I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. > Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my > garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan by > the list and see if there are any problems. > > Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old > mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the > mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push it > upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. That should work, you DEFINITELY need AT LEAST a couple of people to help though, you will NOT manage this on your own. You will damage yourself or the machine or both. A 6K weighs around 500lbs and is top heavy and will survive even if dropped, if it drops on you though the outcome is less likely to be favourable. They are HEAVY. Assuming the trailer is about 2 ft or so above ground level, if you manage to push it over yourself, (and you might manage this considering how top heavy they are) good chance it will get away from you as it does. Four is about the minimum safe number for loading a 6k on a low height trailer. Make it six if you have to use a ute (er, pickup to you), since they are quite a bit higher. Unless you are Arnold Schwarzenegger you have even less chance of getting it off single handed without breaking something. You most likely. Hmm, other cabinet Drives I suppose? What kind? They would be better removed from the cabinet, and then that would be manageable singlehanded. If they are RA8x they are around 130lb so you can probably lift them, be careful getting them out though, the will tip the cabinet if you don't have the stabiliser legs on the bottom extended and you will have 500lb of hard disks and cabinets flattening you. Realistically, you need at least two people to safely install/remove an RA8x drive from a cabinet. SOB's are HEAVY and AWKWARD. If they are RA9x or RA7x they are not so bad (smaller/lighter). But remove them from the cabinet, it's fairly easy with them, much easier than moving a populated cabinet. An RA9x is around 60lb or so, no problem if you are on your own, RA7x's are in 4 drive SA70 enclosures, that take up the same space and roughly the same weight as a single RA9x. (Individual RA7x drives are about house brick size and can be carried one handed.) > My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the > enclosure, will it? No. Short of dropping it from the top of a multistorey building you're safe there. Beware of side panels coming off if you slide it, drive cab's are especially prone to this. I've seen one that was dropped from 40ft by a crane and was twisted and distorted like you wouldn't believe, but it still worked, very tough. Geoff in Oz. From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 18 17:46:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: Tony wrote: > <88W> ... since >it's steady, I think we can assume it's correct (at least for the moment). OK. I'll probe around looking for a resistor connecting high end to +5V. >What I would _expect_ is the following : > ... > >2) A potential divider across one of the supply rails (probably the +5V >rail), with the tap to the other input. Possibly a capacitor from the tap >to ground to provide a bit of power-on delay. The idea is to take the CPU >out of the reset state when the supply rails are high enough (== when the >comparator switches over) The orange 6192 may be that. Its job is just to make sure the voltage-divider tap comes up slower than the voltage reference? I'll look for another component (a black one this time) in parallel with the 6192, to form the bottom end of the divider. >3) A high value resistor from the output back to one of the inputs to >provide a bit of hysteresis and prevent the darn thing oscillating. May >not be essential, but it's good practice to put it in From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 18 18:12:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Floating Point EPU for Z8000 Message-ID: <200211190013.QAA15830@clulw009.amd.com> Hi All Does anyone have any of the software information on the Z8000 Floating Point EPU? The CP/M-8000 that I've been working on uses an emulated EPU ( extended processing unit ). It also has code to run with a real EPU. This is all fine and dandy except I have no information on what is needed from a software point of view. I need a model of what the real EPU does. The assembler I have includes the fp instructions but the docs don't mention how they are used. I suppose I could look to see how the C compiler uses them and look at the emulation code but it would be a lot easier with a users manual. Heck, I'm not even sure they actually made the part. Thanks Dwight From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Nov 18 18:30:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: <829262739.20021118131147@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <026001c28f63$03c3e7e0$fe00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 > I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. > Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my > garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan by > the list and see if there are any problems. > > Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old > mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the > mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push it > upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. > > My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the > enclosure, will it? FWIW, when I picked up my 6310 (for FREE, whodda thunk it!), it took me and three geek-types to lay it down on its side in the back of my Aerostar (~18-20" off the ground). Unfortunantly, I was unsucessful (completely; I stopped after I noticed I was twisting the pin in half) in my attempts to remove the hitch receiver, so we had to roll it over a 2" ball. I ended up with a >small< crease in the side of it, barely noticable after I cleaned it up a little. That says a lot about the construction of these beasts, considering that she weighs in at 400lbs+! I hauled it ~50 miles in the back of my minivan, stripped it to a shell, then my brother and I carted her down the stairs to the basement. My friend Gunther was insturmental in the reassembly, as I hadn't marked things quite as clearly as I thought-- see http://aurora.regenstrief.org/VAX/anatomy for a pictorial disection of a VAX 6420 > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp Bob From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 18 18:33:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Collecting Chip Collectors (was: Whats wrong with...) In-Reply-To: References: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20021119010055.GD12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 12:32:15PM -0600: > This is one of the reasons why I despise most "chip collectors". Perhaps we could acquire some chip connectors and auction off their CPUs, ermmm, I mean, their brains ; surely their brains are unique enough to fetch a good price if placed in fancy jars filled with differently tinted colors of formaldehyde; an immersible light placed in the jar should cause a higher price to be fetched on e-bilk. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 18 18:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: RA81/RA82 Disk Platter In-Reply-To: <200211181848.gAIImMg17481@io.crash.com> from "Steve Jones" at Nov 18, 2 01:48:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021118/a80ba189/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 18 19:32:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 18, 2 04:14:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021118/fcbb70c3/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 19:51:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Collecting Chip Collectors (was: Whats wrong with...) In-Reply-To: <20021119010055.GD12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Tothwolf, from writings of Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 12:32:15PM -0600: > > > This is one of the reasons why I despise most "chip collectors". > > Perhaps we could acquire some chip connectors and auction off their > CPUs, ermmm, I mean, their brains ; surely their brains are unique > enough to fetch a good price if placed in fancy jars filled with > differently tinted colors of formaldehyde; an immersible light placed in > the jar should cause a higher price to be fetched on e-bilk. Especially if it is photographed next to one of those brightly colored, modded up PCs that seem to be so popular these days ;) -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 18 20:01:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > Plan for tonight is probe some more (as above), then replace the > comparator. My wife did actually pick up replacement comparators. She > said the guys at the electronics place gave her a really funny look. She > walked in with the 2-year-old and the 6-year-old (offspring), and asked > by number and name for the IC's I wanted - without referring to her > notes. Guess that doesn't happen too often. Anyway, I now own $1.30 > worth of spare comparators, and I'd rather solder on the IC than on the > SMD's for my first effort. Besides which, I don't yet own replacement > SMD resistors, or caps, or whatever the heck they are. If you plan to touch the SMD devices at all, make sure you have the right solder, and use the smallest tip you can get for your iron. I've had fairly good luck with a 20W iron using a 1/32-1/16" tip and some silver bearing solder for touch up work, but since I don't have a better setup, I've outsourced things like replacing QFP chips and the like. > If no joy with the new comparator, I can try to retouch solder joints on > everything connected to the voltage divider. Anything to look out for > when dealing with SMD's with a cheapo soldering iron? :-( Erm, I just hope the iron is of fair quality, and is in the range of 20-25W. Anything larger is likely to damage the board, especially those awful soldering irons Radio Shack sells (or used to?). -Toth From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 18 20:48:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? In-Reply-To: References: <3DD7BF69.3020202@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20021119031501.GE12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 12:27:58AM +0000: > But it's hard (I won't say impossible [1]) to make even the simplest chip > at home. > > [1] 'Somebody these days claiming something is impossible is apt to be > interrupted by some fool doing it'. Not too long ago I read where someone wrote that it's impossible to manufacture thermonic valves without a large amount of very expensive equipment, which is no longer manufactured. Now, I've seen where some people are experimenting with, and having some success with, making valves/tubes at home. > This is analagous, I guess, to why many of the hardware hackers here > collect chips (it's certainly why I 'collect' chips) -- to use them to > repair vintage hardware. Not to use them to make money. In that respect, I do collect chips. :-) ...no idea what any are worth, how rare most are or arent, and don't care much about their cosmetic appearance, rarity, monetary value, etc. To me, such a chip "collection" is not a collection, but "inventory" for future hacking or repairs. I'm not going to destroy a PERQ or PDP-11 to get a rare chip to add to my inventory; of course, if one of my PERQs, PDP-11s, etc. needed a certain hard-to-find, or nearly impossible to find, chip that was in a lesser machine that I wasn't interested in (e.g., an Altair, PeeCee, etc.), I wouldn't hesitate to carefully remove such a chip from that less-than-interesting-to-me machine in order to keep a PERQ, PDP-11, etc. alive. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 18 21:40:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? In-Reply-To: <20021119031501.GE12175@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Not too long ago I read where someone wrote that it's impossible to > manufacture thermonic valves without a large amount of very expensive > equipment, which is no longer manufactured. Now, I've seen where some > people are experimenting with, and having some success with, making > valves/tubes at home. The "trick" with making tubes is not so much having proper equipment (getting a _good_ vacuum pump is not that hard these days), but how the equipment is used. The critical point of manufacture is the very end of the assembly process - outgassing the elements, pumping the tube, sealing, and flashing the getter. These steps are very dependent on each other, and timing is critical. There is quite a bit of magic at this point, and it only comes up with years of tube building experience and lots of duds. With practice, I suppose one could make tubes about as well as the industry did back in the 1920s. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Nov 18 22:32:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes References: Message-ID: <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>Not too long ago I read where someone wrote that it's impossible to >>manufacture thermonic valves without a large amount of very expensive >>equipment, which is no longer manufactured. Now, I've seen where some >>people are experimenting with, and having some success with, making >>valves/tubes at home. > > > The "trick" with making tubes is not so much having proper equipment > (getting a _good_ vacuum pump is not that hard these days), but how the > equipment is used. The critical point of manufacture is the very end of > the assembly process - outgassing the elements, pumping the tube, sealing, > and flashing the getter. These steps are very dependent on each other, and > timing is critical. There is quite a bit of magic at this point, and it > only comes up with years of tube building experience and lots of duds. > > With practice, I suppose one could make tubes about as well as the > industry did back in the 1920s. The funny things is some say the best tubes are from the 30's and the 40's. It is the other things like good transformers and capacitors and speakers that they did not have then. Here is a link for the history of hi-fi. http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/tinyhistory1.html http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/tinyhistory2.html Old Tube stuff is still easy to fix compared to the modern market consumer products like computers. I don't think in 10 years we will have many of this years products around to be classic computers. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Nov 18 22:42:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: WTB Codar QTimer II Model 102 Message-ID: <3DD9C1A1.566EFBAE@compsys.to> Does anyone have any of these Qbus boards that I can buy? They have a TOY that has a window of 100 years. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 18 22:47:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > The funny things is some say the best tubes are from the 30's > and the 40's. Well, for the "mystique", yes the tubes from the 30s and 40s were the best. For pure performance, the tubes of the 1960s were the best. All those junk TV tubes ("the embarrassing glut") are actually really very good - low noise, low microphonics, high gm, high reliability, and made to tolerances that were tighter than anything imagined in the 1930s. I think it took these later (post-1955) tubes in order to make the computer industry happen. I doubt anyone could have made a really usable machine in decent quantities with earlier tubes. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 18 23:54:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the > stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip > collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the > other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something > substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the > auction. It would be funny to think a computer collector is bidding on this with the intent of selling the CPU to a chip collector to recoup maybe half the cost, or a chip collector is bidding it up for the 8080 and is planning to sell the Altair to recoup the cost. At any rate, like eBay stock, it's over-valued. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 19 00:00:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices In-Reply-To: <200211181824.gAIIOfH02824@misrad.basit.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Benedict Bridgewater wrote: > Actually there's two SOL's currently on eBay. > > The 2nd one is currently "only" $500 or so: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2071406461 > > The difference being that it has no documentation (which I suspect > accounts for the price difference), and also it only has a single card > in it - a non-PT 64K memory card (I asked the seller if it was PT or > not). I believe the seller is being completely disingenuous when he says, "I don't have a monitor or the expertise to test it", considering that he is selling a monitor with the Sol! Being that it only contains a RAM card, this is seller code for "it doesn't work but I don't want to let you know that". Dishonest. It's only the shell of a Sol-20. Anything over $250 and, like a purple Intel C8080A, it's way over-valued. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Nov 19 00:44:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Paperwork to move classiccmps from .ca to .us? Message-ID: <200211190645.gAJ6jSg18832@io.crash.com> A while back I'd asked for tips on moving machines from Canada down to the US. Thought I'd answer my own question now that I've done it. The gentleman giving me the systems (details to follow) wrote me a note stating that they were obsolete, over 15 years old, and that any commercial value was less than $100. It also stated that the machines were a gift rather than a sale, which was the case. It looked like the US Customs agent wouldn't have bothered asking, but I mentioned the machines and handed her the letter. Had it been a trailer-load rather than a couple boxes in the back of the SUV, it might have been different, but as it was she just waved me through. --Steve. From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Nov 19 01:25:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Acquired some Nat Semi ICM-3216 systems Message-ID: <200211190726.gAJ7QOg18894@io.crash.com> As mentioned, I just picked up some new machines in Canada... A gent had saved some National Semiconductor ICM-3216's from a university lab and was glad to find a new home for them. These are fairly full- featured little systems designed to showcase NS's 32000 family, with on- board serial and parallel ports, a SCSI controller with it's own Z80 to mind the bus transactions, a modest expansion bus, etc. Since these were board-level products, everything else like cases and drives had to be built or found elsewhere. Two of the hosts I received were timesharing systems and are housed in nicely designed cases custom built from sheet steel. A third timesharing host has gone elsewhere, and a fourth ICM was later built in a PC/AT clone case where students could try coding on the bare metal by booting from a SCSI floppy drive. One of the timesharing systems powered up and ran just fine before loading for the trip South. The icing on the cake was an unexpected trove of manuals that originally came with all this stuff, including full schematics for the boards, and two (binary) versions of SysV Unix on QIC tape. I'm still sorting through all this stuff, which includes a folder full of notes, letters, and some brochures for different components like disk drives and terminals, mostly from 1986. Eventually I expect to get some pictures up, and depending on where VCF East is I think I'd bring one along. --Steve. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Nov 19 06:09:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:26:59 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes References: <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> ben franchuk wrote: > Old Tube stuff is still easy to fix compared to the modern > market consumer products like computers. I don't think > in 10 years we will have many of this years products around to > be classic computers. I see it in ham radio. Tinkering is gone. Can't easily modify a LSI circuit like you can with discrete components you don't have to have a electron microscope to see. The expanding segment of boatanchor collecting/restoration is tribute to the vacuum tube technology. Computers are still a system of black box components that are replaced rather than fixed to the component level. Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP St. Joseph, MO From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 19 06:11:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: References: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3DDA38EC.3781.1EF4374D@localhost> > > "In response to several inquiries, the microprocessor on the first CPU > > card is indeed a C8080 with no suffix (please see photo below). For > > those of you who are not familiar with it, the C8080 was the earliest > > version of this microprocessor and is the most sought after and valuable > > of all the early Intel microprocessors. A C8080 chip alone can sell for > > $700-$1000 depending on condition" > > "However, it has been brought to my attention that the chip shown below > > is an early production version of the 8080, made in 1973 at an Intel > > subcontractor's assembly plant in Tijuana, Mexico. It is a very rare > > chip, which might be worth 1.5x the value of a more typical C8080." > > I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the > > stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip > > collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the > > other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something > > substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the > > auction. > This is one of the reasons why I despise most "chip collectors". Now, this is an argument wich backfires onto computer colletors. There is a whole bunch out ther who disregard additional material on various level. Some only like just the machine, and throw away even the packageing (no, I'm not talking about Tony, his reasons are different) and all materials except the bare computer. A lot keep the basic configuration, but don't realy look at additional dokumentation or books, and an even greater nummer throw away at least all handmade dokumentation, photocopies and notes, together with unidentified projets and so on. These people are also called computer collectors ... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 19 06:11:28 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <000301c28f2c$b8c6bb40$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: Message-ID: <3DDA38EC.6435.1EF4375D@localhost> > "In response to several inquiries, the microprocessor on the first CPU > card is indeed a C8080 with no suffix (please see photo below). For > those of you who are not familiar with it, the C8080 was the earliest > version of this microprocessor and is the most sought after and valuable > of all the early Intel microprocessors. A C8080 chip alone can sell for > $700-$1000 depending on condition" > "However, it has been brought to my attention that the chip shown below > is an early production version of the 8080, made in 1973 at an Intel > subcontractor's assembly plant in Tijuana, Mexico. It is a very rare > chip, which might be worth 1.5x the value of a more typical C8080." > "I would like to thank Steve of The Antique Chip Collector's Page > (http://www.antiquetech.com) for his help in researching the background > of this chip." > I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the > stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip > collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the > other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something > substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the > auction. Well... now let's try this: As I see a CPU gets more valuable as earlier it is - right? So, now I happen to own a KIM which I belive is the real #1 board. The CPU is a MOS MCS 6502 dated 4675, white ceramic. As such it is from the very first batch of 6502s, of course includeing the infamous ROR bug (no, Intel wasn't the first to sell buggy CPUs :). It ends not just there, but it might even bee THE first 6502 - or at least the first to be used in a manufactured computer. Now this chip might for shure be of some value to collectors, just if I'd take the CPU out of the board and replace it by a later, bug free 6502 (which has been done to a lot of CPUs back then), I'd still have the #1 KIM, in a beliveable and usable configuration. The classic computer value will still be the same (*1). On the other hand, the CPU in it self, although still a quite early date, and maybe *RARE*, suddenly lost any proof to be that special, it is even less worth than a NOS version, since it is unsoldered. Anybody here to help the chip collectors out of this dilemma ? Gruss H. (*1) I have no idea about a 'value' to assign to this unit, especialy since the only valid way to do so would be to sell it ... na, never :) - the same is true for a first series 6502. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Nov 19 06:53:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: All, I didn't get around to the soldering last night. My wife informed me that we were going to get up at 0400 so the kids could see the Leonid meteor shower, so I decided to get to bed earlier. Glad I did, it was spectacular. I did do some more probing around the mainboard. >> <88W>...I'll probe around looking for a resistor connecting high end to +5V. I looked. It doesn't connect to anything nearby, and when I say "doesn't connect" I mean completely open circuit to everything. Practically every other connection shows at least *some* conductance to *something*. Also, I noticed that the other pins from SMD's like this one have a little trace running off to a microscopic little pit in the printed circuit board. I assume this pit is where the conducting path dives into the innards of the circuit board. There's no such trace and pit on the upper right terminal of this device. I think it really is a no-connect. On the 6192: I misled you all, I think. My apologies. Although I remembered the color as "orange", it's in fact a subdued burnt orange, in contrast to the bright international orange of the tantalum capacitors. Someone who didn't graduate from the University of Texas might reasonably refer to it as a reddish brown. :-) Meantime, there is in parallel with it, just as Tony predicted, a tantalum capacitor (bright orange, with a pip). One more piece of evidence: all the tantalum caps have, in addition to the pip, a "+" printed on the circuit board near one end. There is *one* exception to that, where the pip points toward the power supply and away from the "+" on the PCB. It's over near one of the connectors on the back edge (maybe the SCSI, or 25-pin serial? I forget, but will post good directions if anyone wants). The "+" mark is not present on 6192's position on the PCB. 1) Anyone with access to a 4000 VLC mainboard, would you mind checking and confirming that *all* of the tantalums are supposed to have the pip near the "+" (and hence one of mine is probably in backward)? Or wait for better directions, and check just the one that's backward on my board? 2) What's the consequence of having it reversed? Is that cap. probably now dead? Anyway, by now I'm pretty convinced 6192 is the lower resistor of a voltage divider. I did not find a feedback resistor for the comparator. It still could be there, but I don't think it's very close by. - Mark From jim at jkearney.com Tue Nov 19 07:00:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) References: <3DDA38EC.6435.1EF4375D@localhost> Message-ID: <024d01c28fcb$c47266c0$1001090a@xpace.net> >From: "Hans Franke" > So, now I happen to own a KIM which I belive is the real #1 > board. The CPU is a MOS MCS 6502 dated 4675, white ceramic. > As such it is from the very first batch of 6502s, of course > includeing the infamous ROR bug (no, Intel wasn't the first > to sell buggy CPUs :). It ends not just there, but it might > even bee THE first 6502 - or at least the first to be used > in a manufactured computer. That's a pretty nice little item. I'm curious about this ROR bug - I don't remember talk of it from the time. Do you know when it was fixed? I happen to have an OSI 300 (a very primitive 6502 trainer) with a similar CPU datecoded 4775 on it, I would guess it's buggy too. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 19 07:36:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <024d01c28fcb$c47266c0$1001090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <3DDA4CDE.9182.1F42212A@localhost> From: "Jim Kearney" To: Subject: Re: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:01:25 -0500 > >From: "Hans Franke" > > So, now I happen to own a KIM which I belive is the real #1 > > board. The CPU is a MOS MCS 6502 dated 4675, white ceramic. > > As such it is from the very first batch of 6502s, of course > > includeing the infamous ROR bug (no, Intel wasn't the first > > to sell buggy CPUs :). It ends not just there, but it might > > even bee THE first 6502 - or at least the first to be used > > in a manufactured computer. > > That's a pretty nice little item. I'm curious about this ROR bug - I don't > remember talk of it from the time. Do you know when it was fixed? I happen > to have an OSI 300 (a very primitive 6502 trainer) with a similar CPU > datecoded 4775 on it, I would guess it's buggy too. Maybe check Peter Jennings site http://www.benlo.com/ He has some notes about the missing ROR on his Reference sheet page http://www.benlo.com/6502.html His writeing about the development of the world famoud Microchess for the KIM is a true tale of the early days: http://www.benlo.com/microchess2.html Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Nov 19 07:49:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: All, That does it. I'm turning off digest mode. Apologies if I miss an important message, but this is just too annoying! ... well, that was easy. Hopefully I'll hear back from myself in just a few minutes... Toth asked: >...Have you checked the solder joints and connections between >components with an ohm meter? That might help turn up any problems. More or less. I tend to probe both on the component and on the pit next to it for SMD's or on the pad for devices with pins. But I have not been rigorous about it. Tony said: >You will _not_ see the oscillations of a 393 comparator on a VOM. We are >talking about hundreds of kHz / a few MHz... Oh, right. But I'm assuming the duty cycle of the oscillations can vary, and I might be able to see that on the (analog) VOM. >RIght. On the other hand, if it _is _ a capacitor, then it might have >gone leaky, in whiuch case it will have an effect on the DC levels. Oh my. Well, I don't know of any way to test the capacitor in circuit. Once the comparator is out, I could measure resistance on the lower leg of the divider. If it changes while I'm watching it, that'd be a clue, but with power off the system I don't see what'd make it change. Or if I knew what the resistance was supposed to be, and it was in the leaky state when I measured it, that'd be a clue, but at least the first condition isn't met and maybe not the second. >Are there any component refeneces (Rnnn, Cmmm, etc) on the PCB? None that I've seen, other than the "+" markings on one end of the tantalum caps. >It could be a resistor, sure. And perhaps, then, there's a capacitor >elsewhere to hunt for... This comment, waiting for me in my digest as I found the component in question, was what convinced me to off digest mode. Tony and Toth agreed: >Get some silver-loaded solder. Ok. I'm sticking with my plan, to wit replace the comparator and see what happens. I'll measure resistance on both legs of the divider while it's off. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'll head back to the electronics store and try to get replacements for the tantalum cap (and one more for the backward one, while I'm there) and for the resistors in the voltage divider - and some silver-loaded solder. How will I know what values to shop for for the capacitor (maybe not so critical?) and the resistor? Is there a catalog of 1992 or so surface-mount devices? Toth futilely wished: >Erm, I just hope the iron is of fair quality, and is in the range of >20-25W. Anything larger is likely to damage the board, especially those >awful soldering irons Radio Shack sells (or used to?). It's an awful Radio Shack pencil-type iron. It's about 20 years old. I think it's about 20 W, don't remember for sure. I only have one tip for it. Maybe I should think about a better iron while I'm at the electronics shop, if it comes to that. - Mark From benb at basit.com Tue Nov 19 07:51:17 2002 From: benb at basit.com (Ben Bridgwater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.33.0211181358360.20585-100000@siconic.com> Message-ID: <3DDA3FC0.7030402@basit.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I believe the seller is being completely disingenuous when he says, "I > don't have a monitor or the expertise to test it", considering that he is > selling a monitor with the Sol! Being that it only contains a RAM card, > this is seller code for "it doesn't work but I don't want to let you know > that". Dishonest. > He says the keyboard lights up when it powers on, so it does also have the main board (which is where the processor is in a SOL), but still at these prices you're paying for collectability rather than functionality, so a non-original memory card doesn't add much value - it is a minimal SOL, albeit in nice condition. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn't realize that the TV is meant as a display - he probably thought the PL-259 video connector was to attach a boat anchor or some other exotic accessory. It seems that a lot of the tech stuff on eBay is sold by people who are *completely* non-technical - I stumped one seller by asking him what card an Apple 3.5 drive was attached to - he had trouble "tracing the wires". Doh! Ben P.S. I read in the CCTalk archives that you had Bob Marsh as a previous VCF speaker .. did you ever put a transcript of his talk on-line, or maybe have a recording of it available? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Nov 19 08:10:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <024d01c28fcb$c47266c0$1001090a@xpace.net> from Jim Kearney at "Nov 19, 2 08:01:25 am" Message-ID: <200211191420.GAA08056@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > So, now I happen to own a KIM which I belive is the real #1 > > board. The CPU is a MOS MCS 6502 dated 4675, white ceramic. Hans, you big show-off ;-) > > As such it is from the very first batch of 6502s, of course > > includeing the infamous ROR bug (no, Intel wasn't the first > > to sell buggy CPUs :). It ends not just there, but it might > > even bee THE first 6502 - or at least the first to be used > > in a manufactured computer. > > That's a pretty nice little item. I'm curious about this ROR bug - I don't > remember talk of it from the time. Do you know when it was fixed? I happen > to have an OSI 300 (a very primitive 6502 trainer) with a similar CPU > datecoded 4775 on it, I would guess it's buggy too. According to the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide (remembering Commodore bought MOS), which has the full original 6502 instruction set description in it: "ROR instruction is available on MCS650X microprocessors after June, 1976." Therefore, your OSI probably has the bug too (47th week 1975 => late November I think). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Isaiah 30:15 --------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at jkearney.com Tue Nov 19 08:16:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) References: <3DDA4CDE.9182.1F42212A@localhost> Message-ID: <028301c28fd6$7c5edc00$1001090a@xpace.net> > He has some notes about the missing ROR on his Reference sheet page > http://www.benlo.com/6502.html > His writeing about the development of the world famoud Microchess > for the KIM is a true tale of the early days: > http://www.benlo.com/microchess2.html Thanks for the reference - very interesting site. The baudot TTY brings back memories, I had the same thing hooked to my SYM-1 in '78 or so; baudot is so slow that I used a reed relay to switch the current loop. I dug out the OSI 300 documentation, and it has a copy of the instruction set pages from the MOS Technology data sheet missing the ROR. The Synertek and Rockwell books from a couple of years later have it, though. From at258 at osfn.org Tue Nov 19 08:21:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <026001c28f63$03c3e7e0$fe00a8c0@george> Message-ID: One of the 6000 we have took about 5-7 people to lift and load in a Dodge cargo van. I think it took 3 of us to get it out. It should ride very well. They are just a bit heavy, but compared to really big stuff, they're something of a doddle. On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Sharp" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:11 PM > Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 > > > > I just got a VAX 6000. More details on the system itself will come later. > > Right now, I need to move it the short distance from its warehouse it my > > garage. I will probably do this tomorrow. I want to run my logistics plan > by > > the list and see if there are any problems. > > > > Basically, my idea is to borrow my parents' utility trailer, throw an old > > mattress (which I have) in it, lay the VAX on its side on top of the > > mattress, and tie down. 3.5 miles later, we'll slide the VAX off and push > it > > upright. Repeat the process to get the other cabinet. > > > > My only concern ATM is laying the VAX on its side. That won't damage the > > enclosure, will it? > > FWIW, when I picked up my 6310 (for FREE, whodda thunk it!), it took me and > three geek-types to lay it down on its side in the back of my Aerostar > (~18-20" off the ground). Unfortunantly, I was unsucessful (completely; I > stopped after I noticed I was twisting the pin in half) in my attempts to > remove the hitch receiver, so we had to roll it over a 2" ball. I ended up > with a >small< crease in the side of it, barely noticable after I cleaned it > up a little. That says a lot about the construction of these beasts, > considering that she weighs in at 400lbs+! I hauled it ~50 miles in the > back of my minivan, stripped it to a shell, then my brother and I carted her > down the stairs to the basement. My friend Gunther was insturmental in the > reassembly, as I hadn't marked things quite as clearly as I thought-- see > http://aurora.regenstrief.org/VAX/anatomy for a pictorial disection of a VAX > 6420 > > > > > > -- > > Jeffrey Sharp > > Bob > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 19 08:22:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <200211191420.GAA08056@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <024d01c28fcb$c47266c0$1001090a@xpace.net> from Jim Kearney at "Nov 19, 2 08:01:25 am" Message-ID: <3DDA5789.4164.1F6BCD12@localhost> > > > So, now I happen to own a KIM which I belive is the real #1 > > > board. The CPU is a MOS MCS 6502 dated 4675, white ceramic. > Hans, you big show-off ;-) :) Well, I had to shrink warp it, since I'm still unable to stop drooling over the board. > > > As such it is from the very first batch of 6502s, of course > > > includeing the infamous ROR bug (no, Intel wasn't the first > > > to sell buggy CPUs :). It ends not just there, but it might > > > even bee THE first 6502 - or at least the first to be used > > > in a manufactured computer. > > That's a pretty nice little item. I'm curious about this ROR bug - I don't > > remember talk of it from the time. Do you know when it was fixed? I happen > > to have an OSI 300 (a very primitive 6502 trainer) with a similar CPU > > datecoded 4775 on it, I would guess it's buggy too. > > According to the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide (remembering > Commodore bought MOS), which has the full original 6502 instruction set > description in it: "ROR instruction is available on MCS650X microprocessors > after June, 1976." Which also prety nicely displays Commodores (or better Tramiels) way of recycleing of handbooks. They rearely did new stuff when they could make up something from existing which looked like the needed documentation. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Nov 19 10:13:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <018101c28fe6$ccdde760$46f8b8ce@impac.com> I was certainly considering buying this setup with the intent of reselling it after scrounging the Computer Notes stuff but there's no way I'd do that at $4k+. Still, if you do the math it might work out for either the chip or computer collector. On eBay Altairs run at $2,500-$3,500 with docs, the chip might fetch $1,000 to a collector (remember the MITS CPU board that sold for nearly $800 on the value of the chip alone?). . . so the current bid of $4,000 is right on for eBay prices, as crazy as that sounds. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 1:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I was considering bidding on this until the price reached the > stratosphere. I'd be willing to bet that the buyer can find a chip > collector to take that C8080 off his hands for at least $1,500. On the > other side of lunacy I'd be willing to pay the winner something > substantially less then that for the Computer Notes that are part of the > auction. It would be funny to think a computer collector is bidding on this with the intent of selling the CPU to a chip collector to recoup maybe half the cost, or a chip collector is bidding it up for the 8080 and is planning to sell the Altair to recoup the cost. At any rate, like eBay stock, it's over-valued. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 19 10:28:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> References: <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > Old Tube stuff is still easy to fix compared to the modern > > market consumer products like computers. I don't think > > in 10 years we will have many of this years products around to > > be classic computers. If you equate a board to a tube, they are about the same. The only reason so many component level repairs used to be made is that visual inspections were often enough to id the bad part, and the soldering skills were pretty minimal. IMHO the repair industry collapsed on itself, the average cost/quality of repair rose until manufacturers could not afford the risk of field repairs. >I see it in ham radio. Tinkering is gone. Can't easily modify a LSI >circuit like you can with discrete components you don't have to have a >electron microscope to see. The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. Kit building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, especially speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to a dozen different headphone amp projects. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 10:55:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021119165701.38454.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> The 3274 was gone from the Uni surplus this morning, but the HP 7596A plotter was still there (going on two months). I asked what they could do on the $100 price... $50 was their initial offer, then $25 after the manager saw me fiddling with it to make it do *something* (some yutz misloaded the pens and it was unhappy). So now I have an E-sized pen plotter. It has serial and HPIB interfaces and I'm looking for a quick-start reference guide. I've been googling all morning and haven't found anything overtly helpful. I know that I can get paper and pens from Western Numeric Controls, but manuals are scarce as hen's teeth. One quick question... how to I get a demo plot? I see the menu on the internal LCD, but no combination of buttons seems to initiate a plot. Reset is another option and it asks me to confirm, but, again, I can't figure out what to press to confirm. There's buttons around the LCD for menu navigation, a "dot" button, eight pen buttons and some cursor-style direction buttons. Thanks for any tips from a novice to large-format plotters (all my experience has been with A/B-sized HP pen plotters). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From gil at vauxelectronics.com Tue Nov 19 11:31:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: A tale of two Osbornes Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021119103658.008abb50@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I recently got two Osborne 1 computers. The first one (blue case) had a dead power supply -- I fed +5/+12 DC power into the battery connector and was able to bring it to life, but had no software to test it further. This one has a double-density option board inside (and drives I presume), as well as the optional modem. I also got a second osborne (early beige case), which came with software and manuals. This one has a keyboard that seemed to have a stuck key. Turns out that the keyboard matrix has many shorts, not only row-to-column, but also row-to-row and col-to-col. It is a flex-circuit soft of design, and it appears to have a silk-screened or deposited metallization pattern for the matrix. There is an insulating layer of some sort and then a second metal layer. Anyway, it seems that the insulation between layers has failed where some traces cross. It'll be a mess to fix, if even possible. Anyone else have this problem on an early keyboard? So I plugged the later keyboard into the early unit, and was able to boot cp/m. I tried to copy the original cp/m disk to a new one, but copy had read errors on a couple of tracks. I could see some visibly-crappy spots on the disk surface too, but it did boot fine, and the utils seemed to run ok. So I formatted a new disk, copied just the system, and then pip'd the files over. Hmm, no errors on file reads with pip -- does that make sense, since copy previously found bad tracks? After booting and running off the new disk, it seems that all command files are working, with the possible exception of movcpm (which seems to hang the machine, though I am not sure how it works). So I finally got the original disks copied, and learned a bit about the machine in the process. I fired up the later (double-density) model, but it would not boot from the single-density disk. Should the DD drive be able to read the SD disk? The drive was making an odd noise, so it may be drive-related. Is there a way to boot from drive B? Can I swap the drives, and if so are there master/slave jumpers, or terminations that need to move as well? On the early machine, there was a diagnostic mode in rom (ctrl-D at the boot screen, I think it was), but the newer unit does not respond to that. Were diagnostics removed from later roms? I swapped the working power supply from the old unit into the new machine (yes, I know about the different jumper/harness connections). It worked fine. Then, I put the non-working power supply into the early unit, and it started working! I think the original power supply problem in the newer machine may have been an intermittant in the fuse/voltage-selector gizmo, which tells the PS whether to expect 115 or 230 -- in the early unit, this gets hard-coded by the jumper wire on the PS board. Crazy frickin' computers. Then I accidentally cracked the brightness trimpot on one, as I put things back together. Tacked a temporary pot in place while I look for a replacement. I shouldn't try to do this stuff at 2 in the morning, I guess. Well, that was sort of an FYI ramble, but any thoughts appreciated. Does anyone have double-sided software for sale or trade? thanks, gil smith ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Nov 19 11:44:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter In-Reply-To: <20021119165701.38454.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > So now I have an E-sized pen plotter. It has serial and HPIB interfaces > and I'm looking for a quick-start reference guide. I've been googling > all morning and haven't found anything overtly helpful. I know that I > can get paper and pens from Western Numeric Controls, but manuals are > scarce as hen's teeth. Nice find! I nearly bought a similar plotter once myself, but just couldn't quite convince myself I wanted to pay $50 for one. Since you are already familiar with the smaller plotters, you already know HP used a nonstandard pinout on the serial connector on most of their plotters. I'd expect the 7596A to be the same way. HP may still have the manuals on their site somewhere, but finding them probably won't be easy. The 7596A is also know as the Draftmaster II. -Toth From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Nov 19 11:51:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr@zipcon.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter References: <20021119165701.38454.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3dda7a66aeeae3.42812222@zipcon.net> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Home.jsp?locale=en_US&prodTypeId=18972&prodSeriesId=25298&prodSeriesName=hp+draftmaster+plotter+series From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Nov 19 12:24:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021119132143.006c9870@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:29 AM 11/19/02 -0800, you wrote: >The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. Kit >building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, especially >speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to a dozen >different headphone amp projects. Hey Mike, you did not answer my last question: are you planning to build a contrabass? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Nov 19 12:45:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-410 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > There's one that I just saw get unloaded a few minutes ago at Purdue > University Salvage. Looks to be in good condition... except it's laying > outside on its side since they regard big things like it as 'junk'. Well, > if anyone's interested and nearby, drop me an email and I'll get you more > details. > > Unfortunately, I don't think it'll last too long outside - they may end > up dumping more stuff on top of it, or mother nature may end up dumping > stuff on top. I would get it myself but I don't have any way to get it, > let alone somewhere to store it. Some bad news: I went out there again today, and someone has already removed all of its cards. So, unless you really want a banged up VAX 6000 cabinet, it's probably not worthwhile going after. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Nov 19 12:54:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Mike Ford wrote: > > I see it in ham radio. Tinkering is gone. Can't easily modify a LSI > > circuit like you can with discrete components you don't have to have a > > electron microscope to see. > > The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. > Kit building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, > especially speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to > a dozen different headphone amp projects. Is that url right? Looks like that one points to a web portal of somesort... -Toth From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Nov 19 14:07:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter References: <20021119165701.38454.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005201c29007$5398f860$086dbd18@n4fs> I believe you need to hold down the "plot" button and then turn the power on, in order for it to plot a self test image. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:57 AM Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter > > The 3274 was gone from the Uni surplus this morning, but the HP 7596A > plotter was still there (going on two months). I asked what they could > do on the $100 price... $50 was their initial offer, then $25 after > the manager saw me fiddling with it to make it do *something* (some > yutz misloaded the pens and it was unhappy). > > So now I have an E-sized pen plotter. It has serial and HPIB interfaces > and I'm looking for a quick-start reference guide. I've been googling > all morning and haven't found anything overtly helpful. I know that > I can get paper and pens from Western Numeric Controls, but manuals > are scarce as hen's teeth. > > One quick question... how to I get a demo plot? I see the menu on > the internal LCD, but no combination of buttons seems to initiate > a plot. Reset is another option and it asks me to confirm, but, > again, I can't figure out what to press to confirm. > > There's buttons around the LCD for menu navigation, a "dot" button, > eight pen buttons and some cursor-style direction buttons. > > Thanks for any tips from a novice to large-format plotters (all my > experience has been with A/B-sized HP pen plotters). > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 14:14:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? In-Reply-To: <3DDA3FC0.7030402@basit.com> Message-ID: <20021119201547.72459.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> > ...he probably thought the PL-259 video > connector was to attach a boat anchor or some other exotic accessory. It Speaking of such things, I know someone who bought an old video camera (not cam-corder) off of eBay. He plans to use it for the in-house TV channel for the MarCON science fiction convention here in town (http://www.marcon.org/) for interstitials and segues. AFAIK, it has the old standard plug for video out - threaded, serrated rim, thick center conductor, about twice the diameter of a BNC. This is what I think of when I hear PL-259 connector. Have I matched a part with a name properly? Where can I send him for a converter to either BNC or RCA? Normally I'd get such things at a hamfest. He wouldn't have the first clue how to go about that. Is that something Radio Shack might stock, or used to stock and no longer does? Thanks for any tips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 14:17:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter In-Reply-To: <005201c29007$5398f860$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <20021119201904.64753.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Feher wrote: > > I believe you need to hold down the "plot" button and then turn the power > on, in order for it to plot a self test image. Regards - Mike Thanks. Will try that. Is there a proper paper size? Must I use full width, or will it scale down if I bring in the left-side paper handler? The best I can get for testing is 11"x17" (C-sized, IIRC) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Nov 19 14:28:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? References: <20021119201547.72459.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008e01c2900a$4a4c9200$086dbd18@n4fs> The chassis mount female socket for the PL-259 male plug is the SO-239. It is as you describe, however the center conductor is many times larger than that of a BNC. A "banana" plug would fit it fine. The threaded part of the socket is probably about 5/8" in diameter and the center pin about 1/8" in diameter. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 3:15 PM Subject: PL-259 adapters? > > > ...he probably thought the PL-259 video > > connector was to attach a boat anchor or some other exotic accessory. It > > Speaking of such things, I know someone who bought an old video camera > (not cam-corder) off of eBay. He plans to use it for the in-house > TV channel for the MarCON science fiction convention here in town > (http://www.marcon.org/) for interstitials and segues. AFAIK, it has > the old standard plug for video out - threaded, serrated rim, thick > center conductor, about twice the diameter of a BNC. This is what I > think of when I hear PL-259 connector. Have I matched a part with > a name properly? Where can I send him for a converter to either BNC > or RCA? Normally I'd get such things at a hamfest. He wouldn't have > the first clue how to go about that. Is that something Radio Shack > might stock, or used to stock and no longer does? > > Thanks for any tips. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 14:36:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Latest aquisition: HP 7596A plotter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021119203758.87841.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > So now I have an E-sized pen plotter. It has serial and HPIB > > interfaces... > > Nice find! I nearly bought a similar plotter once myself, but just > couldn't quite convince myself I wanted to pay $50 for one. It started out at $100 (in September) but didn't move. Today, they offered it to me for $50, then after I kept fiddling with it and couldn't get it to work (some goob misloaded the pens in the carousel and it couldn't spin properly), they said $25. Wanted one for a while to plot schematics from OrCAD in any case. > Since you are already familiar with the smaller plotters, you already > know HP used a nonstandard pinout on the serial connector on most of > their plotters. I'd expect the 7596A to be the same way. That is one of the few things left on the HP website about plotters... how to wire a serial connector. > HP may still have the manuals on their site somewhere, but finding them > probably won't be easy. The 7596A is also know as the Draftmaster II. I have been unable to locate them after 2 hours of searching. :-( Thanks for the serial tip, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Nov 19 14:46:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? In-Reply-To: <20021119201547.72459.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What you are looking for is a very common adapter - PL259 to BNC Female. A lot of times you can still find these at RatShack (You've got questions? We've got blank stares..) or some of the larger Audio/Video MegaPlex-o-Rama stores migh carry them. Also can be mail-ordered from any nearby Ham Radio Store (Ham Radio Outlet, Amateur Electronic Supply [AES], etc..] Good ones will be around $7 - $10. Most major electronic distributors carry stuff like this. All in all, should be quite easy to latch on to one or two... Cheers John From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Nov 19 14:54:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? In-Reply-To: <20021119201547.72459.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > (http://www.marcon.org/) for interstitials and segues. AFAIK, it has > the old standard plug for video out - threaded, serrated rim, thick > center conductor, about twice the diameter of a BNC. This is what I > think of when I hear PL-259 connector. Have I matched a part with > a name properly? Where can I send him for a converter to either BNC Yes > or RCA? Normally I'd get such things at a hamfest. He wouldn't have I'm pretty sure RadioShack still stocks these. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 14:57:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? In-Reply-To: <008e01c2900a$4a4c9200$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <20021119205834.42521.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Feher wrote: > > The chassis mount female socket for the PL-259 male plug is the SO-239. > It is as you describe, however the center conductor is many times > larger than that of a BNC... The threaded part of the socket is probably > about 5/8" in diameter and the center pin about 1/8" in diameter. I was imprecise. Excuse me. I had meant to suggest that the outer diameter of the PL-259 was about twice that of the outer diameter of the BNC, not the relative sizes of the center conductor. My verbage was ambiguous. Thanks for the confirmation that what I am thinking of is most likely the PL-259. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 19 15:16:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: PL-259 adapters? References: <20021119205834.42521.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c29011$19df3ee0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > The chassis mount female socket for the PL-259 > male plug is the SO-239. While you're at it, see if you can find the power-in terminal(s) for this camera. Some with PL-259's put the power and signal on the same cable, which is a bit tricky. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Nov 19 15:28:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 In-Reply-To: <18DrcB-1NNgW0C@fmrl10.sul.t-online.com>; from bernd@kopriva.de on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 20:36:38 CET References: <18DrcB-1NNgW0C@fmrl10.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <20021119210616.D53555@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.11.18 20:36 Bernd Kopriva wrote: > After a long with HP i lost ... > ... they are not able to give me any operating system for my > HP9000/382. What about http://www.de.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300/index.html or 4BSD/hp300 from the TUHS archive? (I have 4.4BSD on my 433t.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 19 15:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: SOL-20 / eBay prices In-Reply-To: <3DDA3FC0.7030402@basit.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Ben Bridgwater wrote: > He says the keyboard lights up when it powers on, so it does also have > the main board (which is where the processor is in a SOL), but still at > these prices you're paying for collectability rather than functionality, > so a non-original memory card doesn't add much value - it is a minimal > SOL, albeit in nice condition. It most likely has the backplane, which is simply slots, and a power supply. But with out the CPU or IO then it's simply a shell. Does it even come with any personality module? > I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn't realize > that the TV is meant as a display - he probably thought the PL-259 video > connector was to attach a boat anchor or some other exotic accessory. It I think with the information you've already given him he could be a bit more descriptive in his auction. Otherwise I feel he's being intentionally deceptive. It wouldn't be the first time something like this has come up on eBay ;) > P.S. I read in the CCTalk archives that you had Bob Marsh as a previous > VCF speaker .. did you ever put a transcript of his talk on-line, or > maybe have a recording of it available? No transcript, but everything was recorded. One of these days I'll put it all online. I just don't have the bandwidth for it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 19 15:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <018101c28fe6$ccdde760$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > current bid of $4,000 is right on for eBay prices, as crazy as that > sounds. "...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Nov 19 16:06:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > "...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. I would bet that of all collector-to-collector vintage computer deals out there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 19 16:19:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: A tale of two Osbornes In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021119103658.008abb50@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDA657B.31471.134D4D7@localhost> > Hi folks: > > I recently got two Osborne 1 computers. The first one (blue case) had a > dead power supply -- I fed +5/+12 DC power into the battery connector > and was able to bring it to life, but had no software to test it > further. This one has a double-density option board inside (and drives > I presume), as well as the optional modem. > > I also got a second osborne (early beige case), which came with software > and manuals. This one has a keyboard that seemed to have a stuck key. > Turns out that the keyboard matrix has many shorts, not only > row-to-column, but also row-to-row and col-to-col. It is a flex-circuit > soft of design, and it appears to have a silk-screened or deposited > metallization pattern for the matrix. There is an insulating layer of > some sort and then a second metal layer. Anyway, it seems that the > insulation between layers has failed where some traces cross. It'll be > a mess to fix, if even possible. Anyone else have this problem on an > early keyboard? > Uh-Oh ! I picked up a beige Osborne 1 last summer. It's in my lengthening To-Do queue. I booted it at the time but it had a problem not recognising the keyboard. I simply figured it was likely a cable fault. Now I wonder if there may be larger problems with the keyboard. What was your methodology to check the k-b ? I don't want to open mine up now to do a visual inspection, lest I be captured by the "fix-it" bug and neglect more pressing tasks. Lawrence > So I plugged the later keyboard into the early unit, and was able to > boot cp/m. I tried to copy the original cp/m disk to a new one, but > copy had read errors on a couple of tracks. I could see some > visibly-crappy spots on the disk surface too, but it did boot fine, and > the utils seemed to run ok. So I formatted a new disk, copied just the > system, and then pip'd the files over. Hmm, no errors on file reads > with pip -- does that make sense, since copy previously found bad > tracks? After booting and running off the new disk, it seems that all > command files are working, with the possible exception of movcpm (which > seems to hang the machine, though I am not sure how it works). > > So I finally got the original disks copied, and learned a bit about the > machine in the process. > > I fired up the later (double-density) model, but it would not boot from > the single-density disk. Should the DD drive be able to read the SD > disk? The drive was making an odd noise, so it may be drive-related. > Is there a way to boot from drive B? Can I swap the drives, and if so > are there master/slave jumpers, or terminations that need to move as > well? On the early machine, there was a diagnostic mode in rom (ctrl-D > at the boot screen, I think it was), but the newer unit does not respond > to that. Were diagnostics removed from later roms? > > I swapped the working power supply from the old unit into the new > machine (yes, I know about the different jumper/harness connections). > It worked fine. > > Then, I put the non-working power supply into the early unit, and it > started working! I think the original power supply problem in the newer > machine may have been an intermittant in the fuse/voltage-selector > gizmo, which tells the PS whether to expect 115 or 230 -- in the early > unit, this gets hard-coded by the jumper wire on the PS board. Crazy > frickin' computers. > > Then I accidentally cracked the brightness trimpot on one, as I put > things back together. Tacked a temporary pot in place while I look for > a replacement. I shouldn't try to do this stuff at 2 in the morning, I > guess. > > Well, that was sort of an FYI ramble, but any thoughts appreciated. > Does anyone have double-sided software for sale or trade? > > thanks, > > gil smith > > > > > > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Nov 19 16:37:19 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DDABF5F.2030501@charter.net> I really don't see what is the problem with ebay. Buyers and sellers can both reach a broader base. If you don't like the prices, don't buy. A lot of people don't have the time to search out every little surplus shop or auction to complete or add to our collection. Ebay makes it easy. If I don't like the price it's sitting at, I wait until one comes along that I want bad enough to cough up the cash. Free market economics at it's finest. James William Donzelli wrote: > >"...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. > > > I would bet that of all collector-to-collector vintage computer deals out > there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Nov 19 16:52:10 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <3DDABF5F.2030501@charter.net> Message-ID: <200211192254.QAA07993@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Right. Heck, I've tried in the past to swap DEC items, but when I can find a person that wants what I have, they never want to part with any useful (to me) DEC part in exchange. I guess thats how most of us are, we wouldnt have it in the first place if we didnt want it, and we cant afford holding onto stuff we dont really want but might have value, because we havent the space. Just Ebay it, take the money, and wait for what you really want to show up on Ebay. -Lawrence LeMay > I really don't see what is the problem with ebay. Buyers and sellers > can both reach a broader base. If you don't like the prices, don't buy. > A lot of people don't have the time to search out every little surplus > shop or auction to complete or add to our collection. Ebay makes it > easy. If I don't like the price it's sitting at, I wait until one comes > along that I want bad enough to cough up the cash. Free market > economics at it's finest. > > James > > William Donzelli wrote: > > > >"...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. > > > > > > I would bet that of all collector-to-collector vintage computer deals out > > there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 19 17:24:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) Message-ID: Makes life blow when you have no money, though... Trust me! Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From gil at vauxelectronics.com Tue Nov 19 17:48:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: A tale of two Osbornes Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021119165322.008bccb0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Lawrence: I expected a keyboard problem, since the owner said it had a stuck key. Sure enough, the boot screen would flash as if you were holding down an incorrect key. When I opened it up, the row and column flex connectors were plainly visible. Also, the keyboard pinout is in the tech ref (which is online, if you don't already have it). I peeled a corner of the flex circuit up off the aluminum plate, and could see metallization crossovers where the shorts likely exist. I could punch a hole at the crossover to break the short, but then I would need to jumper the cut traces. And this does not look like a solder job -- liquid conductive ink perhaps? There could be shorts in the middle of the key array too. The keyswitches are plastic, with posts that protrude through the mounting plate, and then melted into place. All in all a nasty thing to even think about repairing. Perhaps I am on the wrong track (no pun intended), but I pulled the two flex connectors out, so the ribbon cable is not connected -- I can measure many shorts right at the flex terminals. All of the melted-in-place keyswitches would need to be removed to asses the situation properly. Bummer. At least I have a new keyboard I can plug in. I have not opened that one up, so I don't know if it is different. gil > Uh-Oh ! I picked up a beige Osborne 1 last summer. It's in my >lengthening To-Do queue. I booted it at the time but it had a problem >not recognising the keyboard. I simply figured it was likely a cable >fault. Now I wonder if there may be larger problems with the >keyboard. What was your methodology to check the k-b ? I don't >want to open mine up now to do a visual inspection, lest I be >captured by the "fix-it" bug and neglect more pressing tasks. ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 17:48:27 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: A tale of two Osbornes In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021119103658.008abb50@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <9A193522-FC19-11D6-9296-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Well, at least you were able to get it running. I have a later model Osborne 1 that I can't get to work. It worked fine for a half hour or so, then the screen went out. If I crank up the brightness all the way, i get the rasters on the screen, so the tube is getting power, and the computer will attempt to boot, and read from the drive. Everything seems fine except for the fact that there is no video... I tried reseating chips, but I think I have a bad logic board. No way to test though. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Tuesday, November 19, 2002, at 12:37 PM, gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I recently got two Osborne 1 computers. The first one (blue case) had > a > dead power supply -- I fed +5/+12 DC power into the battery connector > and > was able to bring it to life, but had no software to test it further. > This > one has a double-density option board inside (and drives I presume), as > well as the optional modem. > > I also got a second osborne (early beige case), which came with > software > and manuals. This one has a keyboard that seemed to have a stuck key. > Turns out that the keyboard matrix has many shorts, not only > row-to-column, > but also row-to-row and col-to-col. It is a flex-circuit soft of > design, > and it appears to have a silk-screened or deposited metallization > pattern > for the matrix. There is an insulating layer of some sort and then a > second metal layer. Anyway, it seems that the insulation between > layers > has failed where some traces cross. It'll be a mess to fix, if even > possible. Anyone else have this problem on an early keyboard? > > So I plugged the later keyboard into the early unit, and was able to > boot > cp/m. I tried to copy the original cp/m disk to a new one, but copy > had > read errors on a couple of tracks. I could see some visibly-crappy > spots > on the disk surface too, but it did boot fine, and the utils seemed to > run > ok. So I formatted a new disk, copied just the system, and then pip'd > the > files over. Hmm, no errors on file reads with pip -- does that make > sense, > since copy previously found bad tracks? After booting and running off > the > new disk, it seems that all command files are working, with the > possible > exception of movcpm (which seems to hang the machine, though I am not > sure > how it works). > > So I finally got the original disks copied, and learned a bit about the > machine in the process. > > I fired up the later (double-density) model, but it would not boot > from the > single-density disk. Should the DD drive be able to read the SD disk? > The > drive was making an odd noise, so it may be drive-related. Is there a > way > to boot from drive B? Can I swap the drives, and if so are there > master/slave jumpers, or terminations that need to move as well? On > the > early machine, there was a diagnostic mode in rom (ctrl-D at the boot > screen, I think it was), but the newer unit does not respond to that. > Were > diagnostics removed from later roms? > > I swapped the working power supply from the old unit into the new > machine > (yes, I know about the different jumper/harness connections). It > worked fine. > > Then, I put the non-working power supply into the early unit, and it > started working! I think the original power supply problem in the > newer > machine may have been an intermittant in the fuse/voltage-selector > gizmo, > which tells the PS whether to expect 115 or 230 -- in the early unit, > this > gets hard-coded by the jumper wire on the PS board. Crazy frickin' > computers. > > Then I accidentally cracked the brightness trimpot on one, as I put > things > back together. Tacked a temporary pot in place while I look for a > replacement. I shouldn't try to do this stuff at 2 in the morning, I > guess. > > Well, that was sort of an FYI ramble, but any thoughts appreciated. > Does > anyone have double-sided software for sale or trade? > > thanks, > > gil smith > > > > > > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 19 19:00:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021119132143.006c9870@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com > <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > >The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. Kit > >building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, especially > >speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to a dozen > >different headphone amp projects. > >Hey Mike, you did not answer my last question: are you planning >to build a contrabass? Sigh, not making much progress, but yes I am still working on it. I have the drivers and inerds except motor, and I am looking into buying a box. Unfortunately with my Fatherinlaw passing away the precision of some of the box construction is beyond my skill and tools. What held up my answer is that I wanted to make a complete reply to the questions of motor stiction and fidelity of the contrabass. Ya know, something both elegant and informative. The short answer is that yes the brush motor does need some minimum signal to get it moving, and as a result distortion at very low levels is worse than a typical voicecoil driver. Some controller designs actively kickstart motor, most though just ignore it since low level bass is fairly inaudible anyway. Once the level gets more interesting the universal opinion is that the bass of the Contrabass is as good as it gets and pretty much better than anything else (Sorry John, even those McCauly woofers). The secret is the genius of Tom Danley, who invented the contrabass and patented the design, the guy just really understands bass and sound reproduction. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 19 19:03:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119170413.02b08b30@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. > > Kit building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, > > especially speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to > > a dozen different headphone amp projects. > >Is that url right? Looks like that one points to a web portal of >somesort... I may need to see a URLologist, try this one From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Nov 19 20:12:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20021120023933.GB24035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Mike Ford, from writings of Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 05:02:24PM -0800: > >>The tinker gene is alive, but tinkering is indeed getting harder to do. > >Kit > >>building and ground up projects are very much alive in audio, especially > >>speakers. If you visit www.headwise.com you will see close to a dozen > >>different headphone amp projects. How many others on this list are, like me, appear to be gradually getting away from computer hacking (unless it's to repair a vintage system that they have a use for, or to hack some software they need, like a CGI script for a database entry form) and returning to spending more time on their earlier electronics interests such as audio and music synthesis related electronics hacking? Tubes/Valves are more fun to play with than surface mount (bletch!) ICs; tube/valve circuitry, such as the chasis for a tube/valve amp., is more pleasant to work on than a multi-layer circuit board, etc. Furthermore, there seems to be much more pleasure involved in playing with, and listening to, satisfying, and solidly built, audio equipment (as opposed to that plastic paneled refuse with LED meters, digital volume controls, digital tuners and other annoying rubbish). -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 19 20:17:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <3DDA38EC.3781.1EF4374D@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 19, 2 01:13:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1538 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021119/9115ad22/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 19 20:18:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 19, 2 06:54:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021119/fcca4021/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 19 20:18:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:00 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Nov 18, 2 08:05:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1245 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021119/f96902da/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 19 20:18:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 19, 2 07:50:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021119/f48f379f/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Nov 19 20:28:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119181903.02b05640@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >I would bet that of all collector-to-collector vintage computer deals out >there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. No way, first off most collectors selliing stuff, bought it via some other transaction other than ebay. OTOH if I had some choice bit like an Altair to sell, ebay sounds right to me. OTOOH I do sell a fair amount of stuff for old computers, and I would say its about half and half ebay vs support lists. As a practical matter the ebay sales almost always are better transactions, smoother, faster etc. From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Nov 19 20:52:00 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice Message-ID: Among many, many other projects I need to tend to, I am working on finishing up on my Nova 3 restoration project. The last thing I need to do is replace the burnt out incandescent light bulbs on the front panel. I wanted to replace them with LEDs, but white ones cost $4.99 a piece at RadioShack. Plus, I'm betting that the bulbs take enough power to blow out an LED. RadioShack doesn't seem to have the exact kind of bulb that is on that panel. So, might anyone be able to tell me what kind of bulb I need to get to replace the bad ones, or how I might be able to use LEDs instead, which I would prefer, as I don't want to be replacing burnt out bulbs all the time. -- Owen Robertson From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 20:54:01 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice Message-ID: <1037760879.19745.1.camel@supermicro> I'm trying to gather information about the different varieties of Mice that were used on Lisa and early Mac systems. I'm looking for additions/clarifications to this list, specifically which mouse would have been shipped with which system, and if mouse #2 ever existed. Jeff -- #1 - Original Lisa Mouse (Lisa and possibly early Lisa2?): Had a metal ball, long rectangular button, and a "clip"-type retension mechanism on the connector. The mouse port on the Lisa did NOT have metal around the connector as is common on DB-9 female connectors. Instead, there was a plastic "lip" to which the retension clip on the mouse would mate. The bottom of the mouse was sloped and did not have a sharp angle like the M0100 mice. The mouse had a tan colored cord. #2 - (Early Lisa2?): Same as #1 but with standard DB-9 connector instead of the clip-type retension mechainism. Each thumbscrew had an Apple logo embossed at the ends. #3 - Early M0100 (Possibly later Lisa2/Mac XL): Button was not as slender as the Original Lisa Mouse and had a standard DB-9 male connector instead of the clip-type retension mechanism. Each thumbscrew had an Apple logo embossed at the ends. Both the button and cord were tan colored. #4 - Later M0100 (Apple II?): Same as Early M0100 but had a gray button and cord instead of the tan button and cord. The thumbscrews did not have the embossed Apple logos and were somewhat thinner. The internal mechanism was also slightly different than the Early M0100 and are not interchangable. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Nov 19 21:50:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <007f01c28f56$c783d3a0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > I've seen [a VAX 6000] that was dropped from 40ft by a crane and was > twisted and distorted like you wouldn't believe, but it still worked, > very tough. There's got to be an interesting story behind that particular incident. -brian. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 19 21:55:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Possible Actual Good Deal on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021120035652.87691.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> And now, for a rare, reasonably priced eBay item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2073674835&category=1247 (A PDP11/44) I don't know the guy, YMMV, etc. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 19 22:28:26 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com > <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DDB0DC6.8030803@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > What held up my answer is that I wanted to make a complete reply to the > questions of motor stiction and fidelity of the contrabass. Ya know, > something both elegant and informative. The short answer is that yes the > brush motor does need some minimum signal to get it moving, and as a > result distortion at very low levels is worse than a typical voicecoil > driver. Some controller designs actively kickstart motor, most though > just ignore it since low level bass is fairly inaudible anyway. Once the > level gets more interesting the universal opinion is that the bass of > the Contrabass is as good as it gets and pretty much better than > anything else (Sorry John, even those McCauly woofers). The secret is > the genius of Tom Danley, who invented the contrabass and patented the > design, the guy just really understands bass and sound reproduction. > Having picked up a old dynaco SCA-35 amp, I noticed it has a loudness switch. This boosts base and treble with your volume levels. The catch is it requires a special 4 lead pot that nobody seems to make nowdays. This may keep most bass at a resonable level if you impliment a loudness control. Since I live in a apartment I can't have earth shaking bass, so I am not worried about it. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Nov 19 22:29:08 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: Message-ID: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Moving a VAX 6000 > On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > I've seen [a VAX 6000] that was dropped from 40ft by a crane and was > > twisted and distorted like you wouldn't believe, but it still worked, > > very tough. > > There's got to be an interesting story behind that particular incident. Not terribly. Vax 6000-310 and TU81+ went to scrappers. As did another Vax 6000-310 from another site. They were using a crane to move it from the delivery truck to the floor of the stripping shed. Rigger didn't put the loop on properly and it fell off while being lifted over a pile of big heavy gear, hit that, bounced back and hit the side of the truck, caromed off and landed inverted on the concrete somewhat compressed. Tore off the front door and sides etc... The interior structure didn't move. Very solid. I still have what's left of it. I removed the card cages and psu's for spare parts and the cabinet is out in the shed. We bought the remaining 310 and the TU81+ and they gave us the bent one. The good 310 is now a 6430 and the TU81+ is still in use at work here attached to our 6440. Cheers Geoff From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 19 22:29:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > "...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. > > I would bet that of all collector-to-collector vintage computer deals out > there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. I'd be willing to bet otherwise. At least in my little sphere of influence. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Nov 19 22:34:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > How will I know what values to shop for for the capacitor (maybe not > > so critical?) and the resistor? Is there a catalog of 1992 or so > > surface-mount > > The capacitor will normally have the value marked on it. Either as > something like '10u' or as a 3 digit number like '226'. The latter you > read like a resistor code (22*10^6 in this case) and the base unit is > _pF_. So 226 is 22uF, etc. > > I would be suprised if a resistor had failed, so leave that for the > moment. If you can't decode the markings on it, then perhaps you can > desolder it and measure the resistance out of circuit. Yes, I know it's > faulty, but it works some of the time so you shuld be able to get an > idea of the correct value. I have a working VLC here that I can refer to for component information if there is anything specific you need to know. The board itself is a 7 layer board, so it wouldn't be easy to draft a schematic of the 3.3V regulator and comparator section of the board. I can try taking a digital photo of that area of the board if that would be helpful. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 19 22:36:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice References: Message-ID: <3DDB1121.4050007@jetnet.ab.ca> Owen Robertson wrote: > Among many, many other projects I need to tend to, I am working on finishing > up on my Nova 3 restoration project. The last thing I need to do is replace > the burnt out incandescent light bulbs on the front panel. I wanted to > replace them with LEDs, but white ones cost $4.99 a piece at RadioShack. > Plus, I'm betting that the bulbs take enough power to blow out an LED. > RadioShack doesn't seem to have the exact kind of bulb that is on that > panel. So, might anyone be able to tell me what kind of bulb I need to get > to replace the bad ones, or how I might be able to use LEDs instead, which I > would prefer, as I don't want to be replacing burnt out bulbs all the time. > It looks like you need help from a friend. Carl Friend's Minicomputer "Museum" may be a good place to start your quest. http://users.rcn.com/crfriend/museum/inven.shtml From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Nov 19 23:12:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Unmolested Convex in Virginia (eBay) Message-ID: <200211200512.gAK5CYg21979@io.crash.com> Complete, pristine Convex with lots of original docs, tapes, etc. No idea what the reserve is (and no connection to it): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072169868&category=1479 Been up there for almost a week already and I haven't seen any talk of it here. Hopefully someone can save it - someone else, the house is filling up as it is... ;^) --Steve. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Nov 19 23:27:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Unmolested Convex in Virginia (eBay) In-Reply-To: <200211200512.gAK5CYg21979@io.crash.com> References: <200211200512.gAK5CYg21979@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <1037770185.15844.5.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 00:12, Steve Jones wrote: > Complete, pristine Convex with lots of original docs, tapes, etc. No > idea what the reserve is (and no connection to it): > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072169868&category=1479 > > Been up there for almost a week already and I haven't seen any talk > of it here. Hopefully someone can save it - someone else, the house > is filling up as it is... ;^) > > --Steve. Dang. That thing is in my town! I really wish I had the space for it, but the wife almost killed me when I brought home the PDP-11/24. I wonder if the 'Major University' is the one I work at. Anyway, don't remember seeing any Convex machines in our machine room, but then again, I'm not in the Physics department. -- Christopher McNabb The McNabb Family From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Tue Nov 19 23:42:00 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice References: Message-ID: <01ef01c29056$10893590$05247452@newhare> Owen - How many lights to do you need at this time? I am accumulating a few Nova 3 parts and may be able to help with parts and schematics if needed. Contact me off-list if desired... Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com Preserving the DG legacy: www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Robertson" To: "Classic Computer Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:53 PM Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice > Among many, many other projects I need to tend to, I am working on finishing > up on my Nova 3 restoration project. The last thing I need to do is replace > the burnt out incandescent light bulbs on the front panel. I wanted to > replace them with LEDs, but white ones cost $4.99 a piece at RadioShack. > Plus, I'm betting that the bulbs take enough power to blow out an LED. > RadioShack doesn't seem to have the exact kind of bulb that is on that > panel. So, might anyone be able to tell me what kind of bulb I need to get > to replace the bad ones, or how I might be able to use LEDs instead, which I > would prefer, as I don't want to be replacing burnt out bulbs all the time. > > -- > Owen Robertson > From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 20 00:28:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: A tale of two Osbornes In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021119165322.008bccb0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDAD819.24979.2F49D36@localhost> Definitely a bummer. I hope I don't find something similar when I open mine up. And of course the k-b is integral to the portable and likely hard to come by. I have an old sewing-machine Compaq plasma screen portable that I was able to replace the missing cover/k-b with a desktop one but it spoils the portable thing about it. Good luck. Lawrence > Hi Lawrence: > > I expected a keyboard problem, since the owner said it had a stuck key. > Sure enough, the boot screen would flash as if you were holding down an > incorrect key. > > When I opened it up, the row and column flex connectors were plainly > visible. Also, the keyboard pinout is in the tech ref (which is online, > if you don't already have it). > > I peeled a corner of the flex circuit up off the aluminum plate, and > could see metallization crossovers where the shorts likely exist. I > could punch a hole at the crossover to break the short, but then I would > need to jumper the cut traces. And this does not look like a solder job > -- liquid conductive ink perhaps? There could be shorts in the middle > of the key array too. The keyswitches are plastic, with posts that > protrude through the mounting plate, and then melted into place. > > All in all a nasty thing to even think about repairing. Perhaps I am on > the wrong track (no pun intended), but I pulled the two flex connectors > out, so the ribbon cable is not connected -- I can measure many shorts > right at the flex terminals. All of the melted-in-place keyswitches > would need to be removed to asses the situation properly. Bummer. > > At least I have a new keyboard I can plug in. I have not opened that > one up, so I don't know if it is different. > > gil > > > > Uh-Oh ! I picked up a beige Osborne 1 last summer. It's in my > >lengthening To-Do queue. I booted it at the time but it had a problem > >not recognising the keyboard. I simply figured it was likely a cable > >fault. Now I wonder if there may be larger problems with the keyboard. > >What was your methodology to check the k-b ? I don't want to open mine > >up now to do a visual inspection, lest I be captured by the "fix-it" > >bug and neglect more pressing tasks. > > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 20 00:28:51 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <3DDB0DC6.8030803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DDAD819.23546.2F49CF8@localhost> I have a couple of old Eico integrated mono tube amps and they have a dials for the level as well as the loudness. They also included on the device-selector positions for the manufacturing type of recording. e.g. Colunbia, London, RIAA, Am78, and Eur78. And it came in a kit like Dynaco and Heathkit. Now that was a degree of quality concern sadly lacking in any but extremely high end equipment nowadays. The huge transformers with all the copper wire has also become cost ineffective. The control pots are all wire-wound ones. I used them for years using a small front end for control. I've got the original FM tuner that came out just before the Crossley FM specs and the separate tube multiplexor needed for stereo reception. Great sound. My kids blew out a couple of pairs of good speakers, both at times when my wife and I weren't present. The sound could be heard for blocks around. I, and also the neighbors, were considerably pissed off. They need a general refubishing with caps and wire-wound pots if still available as they've gotten scratchy. Fortunately I have the Sams schematics. Another item in my to-do Queue. Sighhh. Most later amps coupled the level control with the volume and/or had the loudness switch. Lawrence > Having picked up a old dynaco SCA-35 amp, I noticed it has a loudness > switch. This boosts base and treble with your volume levels. The catch > is it requires a special 4 lead pot that nobody seems to make nowdays. > This may keep most bass at a resonable level if you impliment a loudness > control. Since I live in a apartment I can't have earth shaking bass, so > I am not worried about it. > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 20 01:20:29 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> Well, it got moved. Thanks to all for all the tips! This morning I went to the warehouse and partially disassembled the VAX. With a few heavy parts out, it wasn't bad at all. Four people tipped it into the trailer, and only two people tipped it out. Both operations were easy. I wheeled it into my garage and called it a day. I'll go back next Wednesday to get the disk cabinet. -- Jeffrey Sharp From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 01:22:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <3DDABF5F.2030501@charter.net> Message-ID: <20021120072356.42355.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> And, it is an enjoyable sport to "get lucky" (=perserverance and clever searches) to find things others didn't find, and get them at a good price. Even if I had limitless resources, I think I would have more fun finding something "sorta good" at a bargain than to just outbid everyone on something great. People who don't like eBay might not like free market economics, either - although this may be flamebait, and I do loathe eBay, the company, and its new, even more customer-support-less partner, Pay"pal". That go***mn PayPal has the worst communications and customer support of any company I've dealt with in memory. And that includes the pre-Internet era. Considering that they are raking in the dough, their website and backend mechanisms are doggie dirt. --- James Rice wrote: > I really don't see what is the problem with ebay. > Buyers and sellers > can both reach a broader base. If you don't like > the prices, don't buy. > A lot of people don't have the time to search out > every little surplus > shop or auction to complete or add to our > collection. Ebay makes it > easy. If I don't like the price it's sitting at, I > wait until one comes > along that I want bad enough to cough up the cash. > Free market > economics at it's finest. > > James > > William Donzelli wrote: > > > >"...for eBay prices" is the key phrase. > > > > > > I would bet that of all collector-to-collector > vintage computer deals out > > there, 9 of 10 are done on Ebay. > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Nov 20 02:20:01 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Moving a VAX 6000 > Well, it got moved. Thanks to all for all the tips! > > This morning I went to the warehouse and partially disassembled the VAX. > With a few heavy parts out, it wasn't bad at all. Four people tipped it into > the trailer, and only two people tipped it out. Both operations were easy. I > wheeled it into my garage and called it a day. Glad it all worked out. > > I'll go back next Wednesday to get the disk cabinet. What sort of drives are they? Cheers Geoff in Oz From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 02:51:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <20021120023933.GB24035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120004558.02f4d7e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >How many others on this list are, like me, appear to be gradually >getting away from computer hacking (unless it's to repair a vintage >system that they have a use for, or to hack some software they need, >like a CGI script for a database entry form) and returning to spending >more time on their earlier electronics interests such as audio and >music synthesis related electronics hacking? Tubes/Valves are more There is some kind of elemental satisfaction from building or even repairing some usefull item. I used to spend a lot of time on the Bass List, a DIY speaker building group, and it was uncanny the pleasure people would get from even the simplest project. The modern world tries to beat this natural pleasure out of us, or make it immpractical. Ever know anybody that built their HiFi via Heathkit etc? You can't buy that kind of pride of ownership. Just FYI three excellent rewarding first projects, Subwoofer, headphone amp, preamp. OTOH the reason fixing a Windows system is less satisfying is that you NEVER know when its really fixed. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 02:59:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120005719.009f7c50@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >panel. So, might anyone be able to tell me what kind of bulb I need to get >to replace the bad ones, or how I might be able to use LEDs instead, which I >would prefer, as I don't want to be replacing burnt out bulbs all the time. Rat Shack isn't the place I would look, cheap LEDs are common at most hamfest though. How is this for an idea, take an old burnt out bulb and carefully remove the glass and innerds, then solder the LED and its current limiting resistor into the base of the old bulb. The key is the current limit resistor, which you calculate from the voltage applied to the bulbs. BTW I am sure people sell bulbs with LEDs like this as replacements. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 20 03:44:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67124842934.20021120034513@subatomix.com> Man I've had a great week. Last Monday I went to the U. of Oklahoma surplus department to check out the inventory that would be available for the next day's sale. I saw some IBM unit that looked vaguely interesting, but it hadn't yet been priced. I decided to look for it the next day at the sale. On Tuesday, the IBM thing was nowhere to be seen. I went to an employee and asked, "Where's that big IBM thing?". He didn't seem to understand. "You know, like a mainframe?" I asked. The people at surplus are moderately knowledgeable about computers, but like many, they don't know the difference between 'bigger than a PC' and 'mainframe'. "Yeah, we got a mainframe on eBay," he said. I thought, "Oh great, they've discovered eBay. Just what I needed: several million competitors." I went home to see what they had on eBay. I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2068622725&rd=1 Holy cow! A VAXvector 6000-520! But... their reserve was probably around $10K. Yeeeeah. I went back to surplus to ask what would happen when the bid never reached the reserve, but they guy responsible was out for the day. Thursday, I went back and made contact with the guy. He assured me that they would honor the high bid, even if it was below the reserve. He took me back to see the VAX. It was in great shape, with hardly a scratch and very little dust. It had two scalar processors, one vector processor, 128MB RAM, DEMNA (ethernet), KLESI-BB (tape), 2 DMB32 (serial/parallel), and CI clustering interface. There was a separate SA900 disk cabinet, and it had 12 RA7x SDI drives in 3 SA70 (?) enclosures. I wanted it. I made note of the tag on the VAX, which indicated that it was surplused from 'University Computing Services'. I figured that the department was somehow related to the IT department, so I proceeded to the IT offices, which inhabit the second floor of the EL building, above the computer science offices. I've always wondered what was up there, and I was glad to have an excuse to find out. I explored the entire second floor looking for some sort of receptionist, but didn't find one. Finally, I accosted a hall-walker, and it went like this: Me: "I found this really old, really big computer down at surplus, and I'm looking for informa--" HW: "You need to go to the helpdesk in Felgar 300 for help with your computer. We don't do that here." Me: "You don't understand. It's really big, like five feet tall and it weighs several hundred pounds. Someone here--" HW: "We don't help students with their computers here. Go to Felgar." Me: "This isn't a student computer; it was surplused from University Computing Services." HW: "Hmm. We haven't been called that for maybe ten years." Me: "Right. This is a *mainframe* [sic]. One of your people would have been responsible for this machine." HW: "I don't know who that would be. That was a long time ago." Me: "OK, do you have anybody here that fits the term 'old timer'? Someone who keeps the old stuff from breaking? Does anybody have reel-to-reel tapes in his office?" HW: "Hmm. Maybe ... What kind of computer is this?" Me: "It's a VAX. It's got--" HW: "Oh yeah, go to . He'll help you." Me: "Thanks." So I went to 's office, and BINGO, he's the VAX guy. He knew the VAX that was at surplus and told me it was just removed from the machine room. I told him about classiccmp and the enthusiast community, and he was quite amused. I asked him if there was any software or documentation for this machine that he no longer needed, and he pointed to a large bookcase full of manuals. "We can't do anything with the software, but I no longer need that entire bookcase." I thereby scored: (0) A 6'Hx10'W superwall of VAX, VMS, and layered product manuals. There is an orange wall, a grey wall, a white wall, a multicolored wall, another white wall, and so on. I don't remember how far back it goes, but the latest wall is from OpenVMS 7.2. I will pick these up on Friday. (1) About 100 blank magtapes, as soon as runs them through the bulk eraser. To top off this generousity, pointed me to , who made all of the College of Engineering's PDP-11 purchases back in the day. So I went to see over in Carson. He's known among the students for his flamboyant lecture style and for his leadership of the electric car team. He told me that he purchased an 11/34, an 11/70, 11/44, and an 11/23, and that they were all gone now (actually, by 5 years ago). He did, however, tell me the name and employer of the guy that used to be this region's DEC representative. He said, "If anyone around here has that sh*t lying around in their garage, it's him." Sunday afternoon, I got in the high bid of $102.50 on the auction. Today, I paid for and picked up the machine as detailed in another post. During this process, the boss of the surplus department came up to me: B: "I'm glad you paid us for that, because if you didn't, we'd have to pay someone to haul it off to state surplus." Me: "State surplus?" B: "Yeah, that's where all our big stuff ends up anyway." Me: "So that's why, in 1.5 years, I've never seen any of this stuff for sale here?" B: "It all goes to state surplus." Me: "Can I buy stuff there?" B: "Yeah, they have an auction like every two weeks." Me: "If you get big computer stuff like this in, could you hold it for me?" B: "Theoretically, but you'll have to check back often." So, in summary, I scored the following this week: (0) VAXvector 6000-520 (1) SA900 Storage Array (2) Superwall of manuals (3) Promise of blank magtapes (4) Name of former DEC representative (5) Knowledge of the state surplus department (6) Knowledge of how to find big stuff at OU surplus -- Jeffrey Sharp From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 03:49:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes In-Reply-To: <3DDB0DC6.8030803@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com > <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120014659.02f54b20@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Having picked up a old dynaco SCA-35 amp, I noticed it has a loudness >switch. This boosts base and treble with your volume levels. The catch is >it requires a special 4 lead pot that nobody seems to make nowdays. >This may keep most bass at a resonable level if you impliment a loudness >control. Since I live in a apartment I can't have earth shaking bass, so I >am not worried about it. Loudness boosts bass and treble at lower volume levels (ie flat when loud), the idea is to match the sensitivity of the ear, but in practice it is just one more distortion button for salesdroids to push that should be unpushed. Most likely it is just a ganged pot, look harder, or at a hamfest. Better skip it. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 20 04:07:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Moving a VAX 6000 In-Reply-To: <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > From: "Jeffrey Sharp" > > I'll go back next Wednesday to get the disk cabinet. > > What sort of drives are they? 12 RA7x drives (73s I think) in 3 SA70 boxes in 1 SA900 rack. I think I got those model numbers right. OK, it's 4AM. I have to sleep now. -- Jeffrey Sharp From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 04:07:29 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Whats wrong with chip collecting? (SOL-20) In-Reply-To: <20021120072356.42355.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3DDABF5F.2030501@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120020359.02f57dd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:23 PM 11/19/02 -0800, you wrote: >And, it is an enjoyable sport to "get lucky" >(=perserverance and clever searches) to find things >others didn't find, and get them at a good price. Even >People who don't like eBay might not like free market >economics, either - although this may be flamebait, >and I do loathe eBay, the company, and its new, even Why I like ebay is that often the NEAT thing I find I really don't want to keep, and selling it allows me to speculatively buy more stuff. Neat thing I found today is a DaynaFile, an external SCSI device with both a 360k and 1.2 MB floppies. Not that rare, but this one was real clean, alas like all others before it, no freaking power supply. Hopefully something generic 5 pin din will work (I know the connector is normal, a keyboard plugs in fine, I mean a power supply). From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Nov 20 05:27:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF89@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> > (0) A 6'Hx10'W superwall of VAX, VMS, and layered product manuals. There > is an orange wall, a grey wall, a white wall, a multicolored wall, > another white wall, and so on. I don't remember how far back it goes, Orange will be V4 and grey will be V5. Newer than that (V6 and V7) will be the perfect bound white books. That's assuming these are all VMS manuals - it's possible, given the history, that you may have scored some RT11, RSTS or RSX stuff. > (1) About 100 blank magtapes, as soon as runs them through the > bulk eraser. If these are original DEC media tapes (rather than people's data) it might be possible to persuade him not to erase them, since the hobbyist program allows you to use them. (OTOH it might be safer to wipe them any way from 's point of view). Antonio From curt at atari-history.com Wed Nov 20 08:10:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <002901c2909e$6a51e660$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Keene College in (NH?) is having an auction, bids must be in by this Friday, some really good stuff, Apple, HP, Dell, AT&T Stanlan, Asante, Photocopiers, Mailers and furniture: http://www.keene.edu/purchasing/surpluslist.cfm From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 20 09:12:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice References: <1037760879.19745.1.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <00a501c290a7$6cb16b20$08010240@oemcomputer> The Lisa1 mouse that I have does not have a metal ball but a hard rubber one.It does have the clip connector end and is model number A9M0050. There is also a Apple logo cut into the left lower corner of the mouse. I will check my other mice when I get over to the warehouse later today. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 8:54 PM Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice > I'm trying to gather information about the different varieties of Mice > that were used on Lisa and early Mac systems. I'm looking for > additions/clarifications to this list, specifically which mouse would > have been shipped with which system, and if mouse #2 ever existed. > > Jeff > > -- > > #1 - Original Lisa Mouse (Lisa and possibly early Lisa2?): Had a metal > ball, long rectangular button, and a "clip"-type retension mechanism on > the connector. The mouse port on the Lisa did NOT have metal around the > connector as is common on DB-9 female connectors. Instead, there was a > plastic "lip" to which the retension clip on the mouse would mate. The > bottom of the mouse was sloped and did not have a sharp angle like the > M0100 mice. The mouse had a tan colored cord. > > #2 - (Early Lisa2?): Same as #1 but with standard DB-9 connector instead > of the clip-type retension mechainism. Each thumbscrew had an Apple logo > embossed at the ends. > > #3 - Early M0100 (Possibly later Lisa2/Mac XL): Button was not as > slender as the Original Lisa Mouse and had a standard DB-9 male > connector instead of the clip-type retension mechanism. Each thumbscrew > had an Apple logo embossed at the ends. Both the button and cord were > tan colored. > > #4 - Later M0100 (Apple II?): Same as Early M0100 but had a gray button > and cord instead of the tan button and cord. The thumbscrews did not > have the embossed Apple logos and were somewhat thinner. The internal > mechanism was also slightly different than the Early M0100 and are not > interchangable. > > > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Nov 20 11:11:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) References: <67124842934.20021120034513@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3DDBC09B.6060604@internet1.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Man I've had a great week. Wow, yes you did!!!!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Nov 20 11:36:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. The Good: I got the comparator out, visibly intact. No legs lost, no big divots chipped out of the mainboard, etc. I got its replacement back in. One cold-looking solder joint, but I can retouch that later and it's conducting OK for now. The system works like it did before the operation. The Bad: It works *exactly* like it did before the operation, which means the comparator was not the problem. Same run-a-little, hang-a-little behaviour, same drunkenly varying voltage on non-inverting input to side A of the comparator. The Ugly: This problem is vexing me. Right after I got the old comparator out, I went to work with the Ohmmeter. (Remember this is an old Archerkit Analog 20kOhms/volt on its R*1 setting, so there's probably some significant internal resistance. I did zero the needle with the probes crossed before each series of measurements on the same range, but...) Initially, I read on the voltage divider 24 Ohms to +5V (across the component marked "1152") and 80 Ohms to Ground (across "6192" and a capacitor, in parallel). Then I took the board off the aluminum foil I had it sitting on while soldering. Both of those resistors started reading much higher resistances, and their resistances were different depending on which way round I had the probes and on what range the meter was set at. Here's the table, board sitting on a towel: 1152->+5V 6192->Gnd x1 26/ manyKOhm 80/ manyKOhm x10 18/ many K 32/ many K x100 1250 / 9000 9500 / 1800 x1000 7800 / 9000 8500 / 10000 Numbers before/after the slashes are with probes forward/reversed (don't recall which is which, and not necessarily consistent entry to entry). Table is in near chronological order, and that may be significant. What makes an SMD resistor start acting something like a diode? Sigh. What's with the different readings at different scales? Do I just not know how to use an Ohmmeter, fer cryin' out loud? Is all this the natural consequences of trying to measure resistances in-circuit, with active components messing things up? In any case, it looks like I'm headed for the merry world of surface-mount soldering. You know, when I got this system I named it "Sensei" figuring I'd learn something from it. Maybe I'll try to be a little less clever naming the next system. Toth wrote: >I have a working VLC here that I can refer to for component information if >there is anything specific you need to know. You da man! OK, yes, please! Sitting facing the rear of the computer, power supply unit to your right, find the connector on the cable bundle coming from the power supply. Just beyond it is an 8-pin IC marked LM393. Less important measurements: With the computer running, I'd like to know the voltage on pins 2 and 3 (be careful not to short things!). Pins are counted from Right (pin 1) to left (pin 4) across the far side. Voltage pin 2 (expect about 3.5 V): Voltage pin 3 (expect about 4.2 V): Please watch pin 3 for a while (30 seconds or so) to see how much it varies (expect none). With the computer off, look just to the left of the comparator, where there's a column of 4 surface-mount resistors (?), farther two brownish, nearer two black. Please measure resistance across each of those. I've named them from far to near, using the practically invisible numbers written on their tops. I'm really only interested in the first 3, since I don't know where the last one goes, but I'm hoping I might learn something about the naming convention: Resistance 181 (expect about 180 Ohms) : Resistance 6192 (expect ... ummm ... ??) : Resistance 1152 (expect ....ummm ... ??) : Resistance 4221 (don't know) : 6192 has a capacitor in parallel, so may take a bit to settle. My meter shows 170 Ohms for "181", except when measuring reversed-probes at X1, when it shows 75 Ohms. >The board itself is a 7 layer >board, so it wouldn't be easy to draft a schematic of the 3.3V regulator >and comparator section of the board. No lie. What I (think I) know about the schematic comes from finding hard shorts between component pins with the Ohmmeter. I've described it before, but briefly: Pin 2 on comparator (inverting input) connects to middle pin of the "88W" device (black, 3 pins, just beyond the inverter) and to one end of the resistor marked "181". The other end of that resistor goes to +5V. I think Tony's right, 88W is a 3.5V (or so) Zener diode in a 3-pin package, one pin of which is not used. Pin 3 on comparator (non-inverting input) connects to the middle of a voltage divider formed by 1152 (to +5V) and 6192 (to ground). 6192 has a capacitor (at the near left corner of the inverter) in parallel with it, so that it comes up slowly. That's the trouble spot - in operation, that voltage wobbles around from about 2.5 up to 4.2 on my machine. Tony guessed (right as usual): >2) The '3 terminal component' is a zener with one pin not used. Again we >know one pin is grounded, and the other goes to the input of the >comparator. In which case there must be a resistor from that input to a >voltage source (probably a supply rail). Resistor "181", about 180 or so Ohms. WRT to capacitor in parallel with 6192: >Aha... That would be my first suspect. Has it gone leaky? I do not know, nor how I can find out (other than replace it - along with (possibly) the two resistors in the divider, which will be my project for next week,). >If it's had significant reverse voltage, then it will now be pretty leaky >(or even shorted). > >However, it's not unheard-of for the markings on the PCB to be wrong, >just to make life 'interesting'. Spot on again! I checked voltage on the "reversed" capacitor. Its pip end is at ground ... but its other end is at -12V (despite the "+" marking on the PCB near that end). So it's set up correctly after all. >The capacitor will normally have the value marked on it. Either as >something like '10u' or as a 3 digit number like '226'. The latter you >read like a resistor code (22*10^6 in this case) and the base unit is >_pF_. So 226 is 22uF, etc. No markings on any of the capacitors that I can see. There are 3 sizes: large, with rectangular cross section, medium, with square cross section, small, with rectangular cross section. All just have bright orange bands, no writing. >I would be suprised if a resistor had failed, so leave that for the >moment. If you can't decode the markings on it, then perhaps you can >desolder it and measure the resistance out of circuit. Yes, I know it's >faulty, but it works some of the time so you shuld be able to get an idea >of the correct value. I've had a thought. Would the following values make sense in the voltage divider? 1152 - 1152 Ohms, to +5V 6192 - 6192 Ohms, to Ground, parallel with capacitor. Or is it more likely: 1152 - 11,500 Ohms 6192 - 61,900 Ohms The tap is spec'ed to have an "input biasing current" of 25 nA. Either set would fit with the other resistor in that row having a value of around 180 and marking of "181". Current should be enough that the tap drain is negligible, but low enough not to toast anything. Ratios are just about right to generate the voltage I'm seeing, when the system is running. Given either set of values, and that the machine is 25 MHz clock, what's a sensible range of values for the tantalum cap. parallel with 6192? Is it critical to get that value just right, or is bigger better? I'll be on travel Thurs-Sun, so anybody not reading this gets a break from discarding my (probably by now tiresome) messages. For the rest of you, my thanks again! - Mark From jss at subatomix.com Wed Nov 20 11:59:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF89@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF89@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <41154539225.20021120120014@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > If these are original DEC media tapes (rather than people's data) it might > be possible to persuade him not to erase them, since the hobbyist program > allows you to use them. (OTOH it might be safer to wipe them any way from > 's point of view). He said that some contain student data. So those have to get bulked. He also said that he had software but I couldn't have it. I told him about the hobbyist program, but at the time I didn't know enough about it to really say anything knowledgable. If I told him I was licensed for sure, he might change his mind. I just filled out the online Encompass Associate membership form. Anyone know how long it takes to get a response? -- Jeffrey Sharp From vance at neurotica.com Wed Nov 20 12:18:00 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > I'll second that... when I'm forced to use Winderz, PuTTY is > > > indispensible. If you want even faster access, google for "PuTTY > > > download", and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky". :) > > > > I much prefer Cygwin/OpenSSH. > > Yes, but. > You're assuming voluntary use of a Windows box where we have time & > authority to install software. A VERY rare accurance in my little > world. > PuTTY fits on a floppy, and will happily run from the floppy, on any > 32bit Windows. > Hmm. Has anybody tried it in Windows 3.x running Win32? I don't know the answer to this next question: Would the cygwin DLL, OpenSSH, and all its required libs come anywhere near fitting on a floppy? Peace... Sridhar From bennyb at ntplx.net Wed Nov 20 12:18:59 2002 From: bennyb at ntplx.net (Ben Bridgwater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DD7B564.1050004@ntplx.net> ben franchuk wrote: > PS. Can anybody a 2 3/4 x 3 3/4 inch single sided PCB board > from a PDF layout for a resonable price? I would like to upgrade > ( read use new ) capacitors in a vintage amp and can't do the > pcb upgrade here. I havn't tried either, but here's a couple of cheap PCB manufacturers you might like to look at (they'll do single digit quantities): http://www.pcbexpress.com/ http://www.pcb123.com/ Ben From bennyb at ntplx.net Wed Nov 20 12:19:26 2002 From: bennyb at ntplx.net (Ben Bridgwater) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Chip with holes in it In-Reply-To: <20021113001535.FEIZ3342.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3DD7BA6E.7030006@ntplx.net> Wizard wrote: > Those one round and slot holes is for manufacturing process, simply > drops onto bed with two precision-machined pins to keep things in > alignment. This is especially necessary because chip bonding and > wire bonding, lid placing and soldering process is mostly mechanical. > > Later on when processing becomes powerful enough for optical > alignment on the fly, that holes disappeared. Thanks, Wizard, and also to the others that replied. When I saw it all that could come to mind was that maybe they were related to holding the chip in the board it was destined for ... I remember an ECG machine I wrote the software for where the 68000 (the *large* DIP) in the prototypes had to be "tied down" with a cable tie around the socket to stop itself from thermally walking out of it! I read that the Apple III had a similar problem with a lot of it's chips. Ben P.S. Just for the record I'm not a chip collector, although I can't blame a scrapper for selling off whatever he can of a system that's destined to be recycled. Obviously it's too bad if a collectible machine gets scrapped, but the number of collectors isn't large enough to ensure otherwise. From thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de Wed Nov 20 12:19:52 2002 From: thilo.schmidt at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Thilo Schmidt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: History of computer architecture In-Reply-To: <3DD6409C.6040109@tiscalinet.it> Message-ID: Hi Davide, On 16-Nov-2002 Davide \"GIGI\" Rizzi wrote: > Hello everybody, > ~ I have to prepare a 1 hour lesson on history of computer architecture > as a part of a university exam. > It must be a technical lesson (ie: process technology, innovations such > as pipelines & superscalar processors, risc vs cisc, and so on - I study > informatic engineering), not just a historical resume. > I started collecting informations, but I wonder if you can suggest me > some interesting sites and/or books. Get "Computer Organisation & Design: The Hardware/Software Interface, David A. Patterson and John L. Hennessy". There is a "historical perspective" in every chapter. bye Thilo From trestivo at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 20 12:20:18 2002 From: trestivo at cfl.rr.com (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: vr201 available Message-ID: mike, just read your thread. I've got a wall of vr201's and the keyboards. I've been testing them on decmate III's of which I have about a dozen. If your looking for a monitor and keyboard at a real good price email me at trestivo@tarinc.com. I don't know if this is proper protocol for this board as it is my first visit here. If I am out of line my apologies and please let me know. thanks, thom. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/f8f839ea/attachment.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 20 12:20:42 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: Charles has a Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available somewhere in Australia (sorry, I don't know what city...I realize Australia is vast ;) This is a development system based on the Zilog 8000 CPU. I have no idea what it looks like (estimated to weigh around 20Kg) but here is a picture from a brochure: http://siconic.com/computers/Zilog_System_8000_Brochure.jpg Contact Charles for details. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:33:00 +1100 From: Charles L Subject: Donation Hello, I have a Zilog System 8000 Model 31 that I don't really know what to do with. Would you be interested in it? Regards, Charles -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dcohoe at qualitymeats.on.ca Wed Nov 20 12:21:06 2002 From: dcohoe at qualitymeats.on.ca (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 In-Reply-To: <18DrcB-1NNgW0C@fmrl10.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <000f01c28f43$465a0280$8f02a8c0@DCOHOE> Bernd, I recently found a bunch of HP-UX CD-ROM media for series 300/400 that would likely be useful. They include ver 8.0 and 9.0, unfortunately no ver. 9.10 though. Some other people here might need them too. If anyone can make some *copies*, they're available as long as I can get the originals back. Dan Cohoe > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bernd Kopriva > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:37 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 > > > After a long with HP i lost ... > ... they are not able to give me any operating system for my > HP9000/382. > They told me, that they won't support that machine anymore, > and they don't have any installation media ... > ... they told me, that i've to look "elsewhere" :-( > > ... so i'm asking here, if there is anyone out, who will > share a copy ... > > Thanks Bernd > > > Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 > Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de > D-71397 Leutenbach > Germany > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Nov 20 12:21:31 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper Message-ID: Hi folks, Hurrah for moderated mailing lists - I hope. This may be a brief visit but since I got broadband at home it's not so much of an issue now. Anyway, in June '00 Hans (if he's still here) posted questions about the Semi-Tech Pied Piper and at the time I knew where there were some but hadn't had a chance to go get 'em. Mark Gregory also had questions since he had one but no docs. In the last few weeks I've been able to pick them up and was most impressed to find that one of them was an original prototype with a serial number of 38. At this point we won't go into the fact the keyboard connector is missing a post - it has 23 instead of 24 which causes some strange but expected issues when the keyboard is plugged in wrongly. I'm now in a position to answer PP related questions since I've a) got the technical manuals, b) spent a bit of time making 1 good machine (the prototype) out of 2 bad ones and c) got a bundle of disks I can hopefully make images out of if my PC's 5 1/4" drive is working. Sellam wanted pictures (nothing like being over 2 years late) so go to www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk, hit 'inhabitants' and go to the STM section. cheers, -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vcf at siconic.com Wed Nov 20 12:21:55 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Another TI-99/4a available Message-ID: Please contact the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:50:38 -0800 (PST) From: Lori Britton Subject: TI99 Hello, I bet you already have a ton of TI 99's, right? :o) I have one, mint condition, in box. Let me know. Best regards, Lori -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From harvey at staples.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 20 12:22:21 2002 From: harvey at staples.demon.co.uk (Harvey Staples) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Need your help Message-ID: <004801c28fc6$b04677e0$0400a8c0@pentium233mmx> Hi, I have just bought an Osborne Executive computer but I need an image file of the system disk for it, I have tried to boot with an Osborne 1 disk, but it does not work, can you help me. Regards, Harvey --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/02 From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 12:22:46 2002 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: osi docs needed Message-ID: <20021120033432.57314.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, after searching the archives for info on osi and m/a comm computers, i found this list and subbed to it. i am into mini computers and ham radio as well as most tech fields. currently i'm looking for info and pinouts/schems on the osi boards. i have some spare boards form a osi m/a-comm 220c and a oem of the same but am trying to get a "dbi db80" working. the db-80 uses all osi drives,powersupplies and boards, except for the two cpu/terminal/comms boards labeled "dbi inc db1" the comp also has a ohio memory systems 10" hard drive in it. the machine did work in the early 90's then a strange problem started" upon a floppy command the head would go to the end of the lead screw and the stepper would not stop! now after 6 years in storage i tried the spare boards on a backplane and nothing (great more work to do). i thought the drive might be bad also so i searched the archives on this list and read about the serial/parallel interface that osi used - a-ha! that why osi dosnt use the read data pin on the siemans drive. the drive did head load and step ok when i tested them last week and i got a good index sensor pulse so perhaps the controller was going. if needed i'll recap and replace all the chips on the cards (i hope the eproms (rom) are ok. might anyone have docs on the osi boards? or is thier any osi owners.collectors on the list anymore? if so i'll send the board numbers later. 73 DE N8UHN Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From excellrichard at www.com Wed Nov 20 12:23:11 2002 From: excellrichard at www.com (excellrichard@www.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: How much would this be worth? Message-ID: <38805.134.146.0.6.1037806853.fastmailerweb@webmail.www.com> Bit of a tricky question, but one that needs to be asked as i might purchase one in A1 condition soon- and i don't want to be paying over the odds for it. INTEL INTELLEC-8 - (See attachment) Model No. 8 - 84 Serial No. 245 S.D. 4.75 (Production Date?) Fitted with the following cards:- 1. Intel front panel Control Console card. imm 8 - 73 2. Intel CPU. card. imm 8 - 83 (D8080AFC) 3. Intel 4k RAM Card. E48778 - 05 0042000 4. Intel 4k RAM Card. E48778 - 05 0042000 5. Intel I.O. module card 1000264 - 02 6. Intel PROM Programmer Module card E48778 - 0000090 7. Intel PROM memory module card. imm6-26 8. Mesonix 4K RAM Card 9. Mesonix I.O. Controller card (See Mesonix Casette Unit) INTELLEC8 - INSTRUCTION MANUAL The original instruction manual, although carefully preserved, now appears to be missing and may well be lost. The Intellec8 will however be supplied with a later instruction manual for the Intellec8/MOD 80, which explains how it all works complete with a multitude of schematics etc. but unfortunately missing the first and part of the second chapter.Chapter 1 - missing. Chapter 2 - The imm8 - 83 CPU Card mostly intact - includes timing, schematics & pinout diagrams.Chapter 3 - The imm8-61 Input/Output Card Chapter 4 - The imm8-63 Output Card Chapter 5 - The imm6-28 RAM Card Chapter 6 - The imm6-26 PROM Card Chapter 7 - The Intellec 8/MOD 80 Control Console Chapter 8 - The Chassis, motherboard and power supplies Chapter 9 - The imm6-76 Programmer Module Chapter 10 - The Intellec 8/MOD 80 system utilisation Appendix A - Instruction set summary Appendix B - Electrical characteristics of logic elements used in the Intellec 8/MOD 80 CASSETTE TAPE UNIT - MESONIX AUTOMATION LTD. (See photo) Model No. - Fitted DCR-3 Tape Unit (Phillips?) Serial No. - Mesonix Tape Storage Unit. Production Date 1976? STAND ALONE TAPE READER/TRANSMITTER - ADDMASTER 606 (See photo) Model No.606 - (Parallel Output) Serial No.606136 Production Date 1975. DESKTOP PUNCH STATION - LITTON - SWEDA INTERNATIONAL, INC. (See Photo) ROYTRON 528 PUNCH Model No. 528 Serial No. 528 - 23 - 3382 --------------------------------------------------- WWW.COM - Where The Web Begins! http://www.www.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: intelcomp.jpg Type: image/pjpeg Size: 23395 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/bc04aa72/intelcomp.bin From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Nov 20 12:32:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <3DD7B564.1050004@ntplx.net> References: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021120123312.01b4a780@ubanproductions.com> At 10:27 AM 11/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: >ben franchuk wrote: >>PS. Can anybody a 2 3/4 x 3 3/4 inch single sided PCB board >>from a PDF layout for a resonable price? I would like to upgrade >>( read use new ) capacitors in a vintage amp and can't do the >>pcb upgrade here. > >I havn't tried either, but here's a couple of cheap PCB manufacturers you >might like to look at (they'll do single digit quantities): > >http://www.pcbexpress.com/ >http://www.pcb123.com/ > >Ben There is also http://www.expresspcb.com which offers free layout software which is very easy to use and they have good prices, etc. --tom From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 12:41:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: The System 8000 is not really a development system... They are full-on minicomputer-type UNIX machines.. It's a so-called "Super-micro"... I am holding an ad from the DEC Professional proclaiming that the sucker can run DIBOL... I really have to wonder if anyone ever ported DIBOL to any system besides the System 8000, I wouldn't think there was enough of a user base to justify doing such a thing... Anyway, it is a Z8000-based UNIX minicomputer (yes I'm aware my definition of minicomputer may vary from some listmembers). Someone should save it! It's freakin' cool... I wish I could find one, stateside of course... Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 20 12:46:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:01 2005 Subject: Ot -- hi-fi and tubes References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119081818.009f4700@pop-server.socal.rr.com > <3DDA373A.26D8B51F@ccp.com> <3DD9BEDA.9080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119163835.009f78e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20021120014659.02f54b20@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DDBD856.4030805@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Loudness boosts bass and treble at lower volume levels (ie flat when > loud), the idea is to match the sensitivity of the ear, but in practice > it is just one more distortion button for salesdroids to push that > should be unpushed. Other than the filter functions how would it distort more since it is a passive device. If you you don't like it you can allways switch it off. Salesdroids are pushing the 250/channel watt mini transistor amps instead. Read the fine print that is total power, 75 watts to sub woofer,35 watts to main speaker,10 watts to tweeter. Notice how they don't give any real specs on amps other than power. How effecent are the speakers? What is the distortion? What freq response? > Most likely it is just a ganged pot, look harder, or at a hamfest. > Better skip it. I want to buy one NEW! The loudness control is a good idea, but since most people have never seen them and tone controls are rare other bass boost, how can the public know if it is a good thing. Most people want to feel bass not hear it un-distorted. I got a 16 watt per channel amp with 6" full range speakers http://www.oldhifi.com/fostex.html ) that plays plenty loud with out distortion for a 12x10 foot living room. Total 110 watts AC power with the tubes glowing nicely. Now if I ever did build a new amp I would have some solid state logic for a remote and motoroised pots for the volume control, but still have manual control. I guess I watched too many Star Trek shows with the main computer out of control. Notice how now days when windows hangs you can't turn off the computer with the power switch under the default bios setting. BTW I got a nice sound systen so I can have music when I build a TTL computer. Anybody got the data sheet for a 74ls189? I can still get the chip $5.00 us but not the data sheet. Ben From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 12:48:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Hey Sellam, since it beats me which email address works best... Message-ID: I'll just write here... lol.. Was looking at the pics of your DPS-6, and I think you actually have 3 systems, the 2 smaller cabinets appear to each be a Microsystem 6 type machine... FWIW Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 20 13:08:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: <3DD7B564.1050004@ntplx.net> Message-ID: <3DDBDD7C.4030409@jetnet.ab.ca> Ben Bridgwater wrote: > I havn't tried either, but here's a couple of cheap PCB manufacturers > you might like to look at (they'll do single digit quantities): > > http://www.pcbexpress.com/ > http://www.pcb123.com/ Thanks Ben. I have no problem with getting PCB made as prototype but 99.9% of the people take only CAD files. A guy in Australa will take the older formats. The problem is most of the small stuff found now days is a PDF file or PCB board layout from a old book, something that is not in a CAD format. I did get a reply back and can get my board made for $45 us. Not cheap but not as much as time and supplies wasted trying to make my own PCB. Ben. From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Nov 20 14:14:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 In-Reply-To: <000f01c28f43$465a0280$8f02a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <18EbFQ-0eSwEKC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Hi Dan, thanks for that offer ! As i live in germany, it may me expensive/slow/unsafe to send them to me ... ... maybe you can put the ISO images on some Webspace ... Thanks Bernd On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:15 -0500, Dan Cohoe wrote: >Bernd, > >I recently found a bunch of HP-UX CD-ROM media for series 300/400 that would >likely be useful. They include ver 8.0 and 9.0, unfortunately no ver. 9.10 >though. > >Some other people here might need them too. If anyone can make some >*copies*, they're available as long as I can get the originals back. > >Dan Cohoe > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Bernd Kopriva >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:37 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 >> >> >> After a long with HP i lost ... >> ... they are not able to give me any operating system for my >> HP9000/382. >> They told me, that they won't support that machine anymore, >> and they don't have any installation media ... >> ... they told me, that i've to look "elsewhere" :-( >> >> ... so i'm asking here, if there is anyone out, who will >> share a copy ... >> >> Thanks Bernd >> >> >> Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 >> Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de >> D-71397 Leutenbach >> Germany >> >> >> > From r.stek at snet.net Wed Nov 20 14:52:19 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (r.stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! Message-ID: <201102324.46414@webbox.com> I just picked up a manual for Michael Shrayer's Electric Pencil - the first WP I had on my Sol-20. But this manual is for the IBM PC version! I don't recall reading about this at all. Has anyone else come across this, and does anyone actually have a copy of the program? I'd love to be able to run it. (forgive me if I seem lax in responding to any replies - I get the digest version and and am "time-shifted" usually by several days) Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Nov 20 15:32:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: HVD SCSI Message-ID: <200211202134.gAKLY7g30783@shell1.aracnet.com> I'm trying to find some info on HVD SCSI. I know for Terminators I need HVD SCSI Terminators, but what about cables. Will any old 68-pin SCSI cable do, or do I need special cables? Also, does anyone have any favorite vendors that sell this sort of thing? Zane From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Nov 20 16:15:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Convex Supercomputer Message-ID: <1037830644.22450.7.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Here are some responses to a question I asked of the people-who-who-would-know about the Convex C210 that is currently on Ebay. It looks to me like the machine hadn't been used in quite a while. Also, It doesn't look like the power cable assembly is included. Also, it seems that the machine was NOT in use in Oct of this year, regardless of what the Ebay blurb says. Email addresses and last names have been removed to protect the innocent. -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Phil > ----- Forwarded message from Roger ----- > > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:06:37 -0500 > From: Roger > > Yeah, we dumped it. Hasn't run in sometime to my knowledge. Had a very > heavy power cable assembly that we kept. I unbolted the cables myself, > and disconnected the cables between the units. I wonder if Mo remembered > to format the drives before it was dumped? > > We have been surplusing lots of Mo junk here recently. > > Will be interesting to watch this auction. Can't believe the guy has a > reserve on it. > > - RAL > > Phil wrote: > >Did the Convex get surplussed? > > > >----- Forwarded message from Christopher McNabb ----- > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:42:42 -0500 > >From: Christopher McNabb > > > >Know anything about this one: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2072169868&category=1479 > > > >It is in Blacksburg and come from the Physics dept. at a "Major > >University" > > > > > >Looks like VT property tags in the upper left hand corner of each > >cabinet (first photo) > > > > -- > Roger > Virginia Tech Physics Department, Computing Systems > > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Christopher McNabb The McNabb Family From menadeau at attbi.com Wed Nov 20 16:29:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> <002901c2909e$6a51e660$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <006c01c290e4$4c3b67a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Hey, that's my alma mater. How did you find this, Curt. Are you an alum, too? --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... > Keene College in (NH?) is having an auction, bids must be in by this Friday, > some really good stuff, Apple, HP, Dell, AT&T Stanlan, Asante, Photocopiers, > Mailers and furniture: > > > http://www.keene.edu/purchasing/surpluslist.cfm > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Nov 20 16:32:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Manuals for HP LaserJet 2 33440A Message-ID: <3DDC0DA0.9440C902@compsys.to> Anyone know where I can find both the User Manual and the Service Manual for the LaserJet 2 33440A Printer? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 17:00:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <3DD7B564.1050004@ntplx.net> References: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120145643.030aa920@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:27 AM 11/17/02 -0500, you wrote: >ben franchuk wrote: >>PS. Can anybody a 2 3/4 x 3 3/4 inch single sided PCB board >>from a PDF layout for a resonable price? I would like to upgrade >>( read use new ) capacitors in a vintage amp and can't do the >>pcb upgrade here. > >I havn't tried either, but here's a couple of cheap PCB manufacturers you >might like to look at (they'll do single digit quantities): > >http://www.pcbexpress.com/ >http://www.pcb123.com/ Wow, that is really pretty cheap for what they seem to be offering. Board Size in Square Inches: 0-9 10-19 20-29 30-44 45-64 65-108 LOT QTY = $ per batch of boards 2 $80 $90 $105 $120 $145 $175 4 $92 $115 $137 $160 $182 $205 6 $108 $123 $146 $173 $199 $230 20 $220 $240 $268 $295 $323 $350 Above cut and pasted from first link, qty 20 up to like a 3x3 board is $11 each. Makes me itch to do some project. From donm at cts.com Wed Nov 20 17:08:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Need your help In-Reply-To: <004801c28fc6$b04677e0$0400a8c0@pentium233mmx> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Harvey Staples wrote: > Hi, > > I have just bought an Osborne Executive computer but I need an image > file of the system disk for it, I have tried to boot with an Osborne 1 disk, > but it does not work, can you help me. > > Regards, > > Harvey I have sent it to him. - don > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/02 > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Nov 20 17:27:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021120145643.030aa920@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3DDC1A50.4090609@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Above cut and pasted from first link, qty 20 up to like a 3x3 board is > $11 each. Makes me itch to do some project. But what fits on a 3x3 board that is worth duplicating? Even the good old flip chips from DEC are 2.5 x 5 inches. Ben. From jim at jkearney.com Wed Nov 20 17:31:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021120145643.030aa920@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <0cdf01c290ed$2726ac50$1301090a@xpace.net> > Wow, that is really pretty cheap for what they seem to be offering. > Board Size in Square Inches: 0-9 10-19 20-29 30-44 45-64 65-108 > LOT QTY = $ per batch of boards > 2 $80 $90 $105 $120 $145 $175 > 4 $92 $115 $137 $160 $182 $205 It's decent, but not that great. For small projects, if you can fit them in 2.5" x 3.8", the miniboard service from www.expresspcb.com is hard to beat at $62 for 3. The only problem there is that you have to use their software to lay out the board. For only a few dollars more, you can get more boards with solder mask and silkscreen. www.4pcb.com will do boards up to 150 sq inches for $33 ea in quantity 3 and up, including mask and legend. www.e-teknet.com does qty 4 up to 55 sq inches with mask and legend for only $22.99 each. I've used both of them and the quality has been excellent. Jim From dan at ekoan.com Wed Nov 20 17:44:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice In-Reply-To: <1037760879.19745.1.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120184426.033723f0@enigma> At 09:54 PM 11/19/02 -0500, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: >I'm trying to gather information about the different varieties of Mice >that were used on Lisa and early Mac systems. I'm looking for >additions/clarifications to this list, specifically which mouse would >have been shipped with which system, and if mouse #2 ever existed. I put up a page with photos and a brief description of the four types of early Mac mice that I have at http://www.decodesystems.com/apple-mice.html Hope that helps. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From curt at atari-history.com Wed Nov 20 17:54:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> <002901c2909e$6a51e660$0b00a8c0@cvendel> <006c01c290e4$4c3b67a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <003f01c290f0$1b102970$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Hi Michael, Ran across it by accident while doing some googling.... Thought some people on the list would find it useful. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nadeau" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Equipment in Keene College.... > Hey, that's my alma mater. How did you find this, Curt. Are you an alum, > too? > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:09 AM > Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... > > > > Keene College in (NH?) is having an auction, bids must be in by this > Friday, > > some really good stuff, Apple, HP, Dell, AT&T Stanlan, Asante, > Photocopiers, > > Mailers and furniture: > > > > > > http://www.keene.edu/purchasing/surpluslist.cfm > > > > > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 17:57:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: I need the settings for a Heath/Zenith video card Message-ID: Hi all, About to scream trying to find docs on a Heath/Zenith video card... It's an 8-bit ISA board with both a 9 pin and 15 pin video interface, and the confounded row o' dip switches... The part number on the board is 150-307... Hope someone can help me! BTW I am trying to make it use the 15-pin port (VGA) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 20 18:11:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice-Missing One References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120184426.033723f0@enigma> Message-ID: <013d01c290f2$baf94960$c9010240@oemcomputer> Dan, Only counted 3 mice? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Veeneman" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice > At 09:54 PM 11/19/02 -0500, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > >I'm trying to gather information about the different varieties of Mice > >that were used on Lisa and early Mac systems. I'm looking for > >additions/clarifications to this list, specifically which mouse would > >have been shipped with which system, and if mouse #2 ever existed. > > I put up a page with photos and a brief description of the > four types of early Mac mice that I have > at http://www.decodesystems.com/apple-mice.html > > Hope that helps. > > > Cheers, > > Dan > www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > From menadeau at attbi.com Wed Nov 20 18:14:00 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! References: <201102324.46414@webbox.com> Message-ID: <00e001c290f2$b9a6d8c0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> That rang a bell with me, Bob. A company called Electric Software Corp. sold Electric Pencil PC in the mid to late 1980s. The company advertised in 80 Micro and other places. I believe this is an incarnation of the company Michael Shrayer founded, but by then he was no longer there. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "r.stek" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:53 PM Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! > > I just picked up a manual for Michael Shrayer's Electric Pencil > - the first WP I had on my Sol-20. But this manual is for the > IBM PC version! I don't recall reading about this at all. Has > anyone else come across this, and does anyone actually have a > copy of the program? I'd love to be able to run it. > > (forgive me if I seem lax in responding to any replies - I get > the digest version and and am "time-shifted" usually by several > days) > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 20 18:58:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: I need the settings for a Heath/Zenith video card Message-ID: >About to scream trying to find docs on a Heath/Zenith video card... It's an >8-bit ISA board with both a 9 pin and 15 pin video interface, and the >confounded row o' dip switches... The part number on the board is 150-307... >Hope someone can help me! BTW I am trying to make it use the 15-pin port >(VGA) I have one made by Video Seven that I believe I pulled from a 386 Zenith PC. The part numbers aren't the same as yours, so the dip settings probably aren't the same (but in case you care 1 closed, 2-6 open). I also don't have docs, (nor were able to find them), but with mine, it auto selects the VGA or CGA based on which has a monitor plugged in. If both have a monitor, it uses VGA (I wasn't able to get it to work with both at the same time... maybe if I had docs and knew what the dips did). The interesting thing with mine is it is one of the few cards I have with a "Slot 8" jumper, which if I understand it right, was to let you use it in an XT that had slot 8 reverse wired (or something to that effect). -chris From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 19:00:04 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith thingy Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know what exactly a Heath/Zenith SW-3000-A is? The plaque on the front says Heath/Zenith Computer-based Instruments, and there is a card in it with 2 coax connectors that looks like maybe its some kind of broadcast crud? The machine itself is a rackmount passive backplane 286, with the video I asked about in it. I really need to take a pic, it is one snazzy looking piece of hardware. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Nov 20 19:04:14 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: HVD SCSI In-Reply-To: <200211202134.gAKLY7g30783@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200211202134.gAKLY7g30783@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200211201705350564.9255AC7A@192.168.42.129> Hi, Zane & Group, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Nov-02 at 13:34 Zane H. Healy wrote: >I'm trying to find some info on HVD SCSI. I know for Terminators I need >HVD SCSI Terminators, but what about cables. Will any old 68-pin SCSI cable >do, or do I need special cables? The only difference I've seen between diff and SE SCSI flat cables is that, occasionally, longer HVD cables will be the twisted-pair variety. Other than that, there is no difference that I'm aware of. >Also, does anyone have any favorite vendors that sell this sort of thing? Electro Products here in Kent can make or sell darn near any type of cable you could imagine. They're in the phone book. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From apple at cmc.net Wed Nov 20 19:11:00 2002 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: osi docs needed References: <20021120033432.57314.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005501c290fa$f0835dc0$6f0fbbd0@nobleyolrs15cj> There's still a few of us old OSI people hanging out here. I have schematics for most of the OSI system boards, but I think you may have what was called the Denver Board which I don't have any data on. You might try checking out the track zero sensor on the drive. If you were really lucky it might just be dirty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Allen Jr" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:34 PM Subject: osi docs needed > Hi all, > > after searching the archives for info on osi and m/a > comm computers, i found this list and subbed to it. > > i am into mini computers and ham radio as well as most > tech fields. > > currently i'm looking for info and pinouts/schems on > the osi boards. > > i have some spare boards form a osi m/a-comm 220c > and a oem of the same but am trying to get a "dbi > db80" > working. > > the db-80 uses all osi drives,powersupplies and > boards, > except for the two cpu/terminal/comms boards labeled > "dbi inc db1" > > the comp also has a ohio memory systems 10" hard drive > in it. > > > the machine did work in the early 90's then a strange > problem started" upon a floppy command the head would > go to the end of the lead screw and the stepper would > not stop! > > now after 6 years in storage i tried the spare boards > on a backplane and nothing (great more work to do). > > i thought the drive might be bad also so i searched > the archives on this list and read about the > serial/parallel interface that osi used - a-ha! that > why osi dosnt use the read data pin on the siemans > drive. > > the drive did head load and step ok when i tested them > last week and i got a good index sensor pulse so > perhaps the controller was going. > > if needed i'll recap and replace all the chips on the > cards (i hope the eproms (rom) are ok. > > might anyone have docs on the osi boards? > > or is thier any osi owners.collectors on the list > anymore? > > if so i'll send the board numbers later. > > 73 DE N8UHN > Bill > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 20 19:27:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Nov 18, 2 01:10:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 797 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/3efa2b59/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 20 19:33:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 20, 2 11:26:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/dc22294d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 20 19:35:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: DG Nova 3 Repair Advice In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Nov 19, 2 08:53:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1079 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/e9b1cc60/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 19:37:04 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: I need the settings for a Heath/Zenith video card Message-ID: Chris, Well I tried 1 closed, 2-6 open, and no video... it was set to 2 and 3 closed, rest open, that produces some kinda static white noise crud on the monitor... The card has a chips + tech chip and an Inmos chip, which I would guess is the RAMDAC. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Nov 20 19:42:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... In-Reply-To: <002901c2909e$6a51e660$0b00a8c0@cvendel> References: <003901c2904c$b6955770$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <130115740345.20021120011330@subatomix.com> <012601c2906d$d4bc9940$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <161126230239.20021120040820@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021120174356.0502dab0@mail.zipcon.net> Methinks someone on their staff has been smoking crack..... $160 for a P-II 233 with 32 MB ram, no monior?!?!?!? At 09:09 AM 11/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >Keene College in (NH?) is having an auction, bids must be in by this Friday, >some really good stuff, Apple, HP, Dell, AT&T Stanlan, Asante, Photocopiers, >Mailers and furniture: > > >http://www.keene.edu/purchasing/surpluslist.cfm From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Nov 20 19:45:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith thingy Message-ID: <200211210142.RAA17367@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Will Jennings" > >Hi, >Does anyone know what exactly a Heath/Zenith SW-3000-A is? The plaque on the Hi Will The SW would indicate that it was a shortwave receiver or tranceiver. Dwight >front says Heath/Zenith Computer-based Instruments, and there is a card in >it with 2 coax connectors that looks like maybe its some kind of broadcast >crud? The machine itself is a rackmount passive backplane 286, with the >video I asked about in it. I really need to take a pic, it is one snazzy >looking piece of hardware. > >Will J > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > From dan at ekoan.com Wed Nov 20 20:34:01 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Varieties of Lisa/Early Mac Mice-Missing One In-Reply-To: <013d01c290f2$baf94960$c9010240@oemcomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120184426.033723f0@enigma> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120213718.0337acb0@enigma> At 06:12 PM 11/20/02 -0600, you wrote: >Dan, Only counted 3 mice? Yes, only three photos, since the case and connector are the same for both the Mouse IIe and a version of the M0100. The only difference is a stamped part number on the connector. I could take another photo, but then someone would wonder why two of them look the same. :-) Cheers, Dan From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Nov 20 20:49:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I don't know the answer to this next question: > > Would the cygwin DLL, OpenSSH, and all its required libs come anywhere > near fitting on a floppy? IIRC, it's like 3 MB total. Doc From rcini at optonline.net Wed Nov 20 20:53:00 2002 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: CBM Chip Question Message-ID: Hello, all: While rummaging thought my stock of Commodore chips, I came across a bunck of R6765 chips. I looked in some of my notes and I have "floppy controller" written down and elsewhere "D765". Is this a Rockwell-badged version of the NEC controller? Which Commodore drives was this chip used in? Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021120/b5349b93/winmail.bin From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Nov 20 20:57:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <3DDC1A50.4090609@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3DD69ED0.7020500@jetnet.ab.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20021120145643.030aa920@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021120182758.030a2500@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >>Above cut and pasted from first link, qty 20 up to like a 3x3 board is >>$11 each. Makes me itch to do some project. > >But what fits on a 3x3 board that is worth duplicating? >Even the good old flip chips from DEC are 2.5 x 5 inches. Hmmm, 2x4.5 board might fit a 10/100 ethernet card for a apple II, or maybe a PIC, or actually I was thinking something usefull like a headphone amp, or maybe some panel interface thing, blinkinlites or maybe a little LCD display. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 20 21:07:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: CBM Chip Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3603.4.20.168.108.1037848139.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > While rummaging thought my stock of Commodore chips, I came across a > bunck of R6765 chips. I looked in some of my notes and I have "floppy > controller" written down and elsewhere "D765". Is this a Rockwell-badged > version of the NEC controller? Yes. I have no idea whether it is a licensed copy or a clone, though. > Which Commodore drives was this chip used > in? Not necessarily in any -- Rockwell made chips for a heck of a lot more stuff than Commodore computers. If it was used in a Commodore drive, it would most likely have been the 1571 or 1581, since AFAIK those are the only drives they made that supported industry-standard MFM. From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Nov 20 21:35:01 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 In-Reply-To: <18EbFQ-0eSwEKC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <000301c2910f$5388b3c0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> I'll see if I can get this done though it might take a little while. If you don't hear from me check back. Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bernd Kopriva > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:20 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for > HP9000/382 > > > Hi Dan, > > thanks for that offer ! > As i live in germany, it may me expensive/slow/unsafe to send > them to me ... > ... maybe you can put the ISO images on some Webspace ... > > Thanks Bernd > > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:15 -0500, Dan Cohoe wrote: > > >Bernd, > > > >I recently found a bunch of HP-UX CD-ROM media for series > 300/400 that would > >likely be useful. They include ver 8.0 and 9.0, > unfortunately no ver. 9.10 > >though. > > > >Some other people here might need them too. If anyone can make some > >*copies*, they're available as long as I can get the originals back. > > > >Dan Cohoe > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > >> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > >> Behalf Of Bernd Kopriva > >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:37 PM > >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> Subject: Looking for HP-UX and/or Pascal Environment for HP9000/382 > >> > >> > >> After a long with HP i lost ... > >> ... they are not able to give me any operating system for my > >> HP9000/382. > >> They told me, that they won't support that machine anymore, > >> and they don't have any installation media ... > >> ... they told me, that i've to look "elsewhere" :-( > >> > >> ... so i'm asking here, if there is anyone out, who will > >> share a copy ... > >> > >> Thanks Bernd > >> > >> > >> Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 > >> Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de > >> D-71397 Leutenbach > >> Germany > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > From gil at vauxelectronics.com Wed Nov 20 22:01:01 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021120210508.0094d100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Jim: I'll second that vote -- Advanced Circuits (www.4pcb.com) is a great place. I have done many boards there, proto and production. Quotes, and order status, is online 24/7. But I think they only take gerber cad files. Back to the original question: I'm not sure how to do a non-gerber board inexpensively. If the artwork is in a pdf file (or even a tif from a scan), you would need to find a board house that could use it, but none come to mind. To make it yourself, you can print the pdf to lino film and make a board using sensitized board material from kepro, then etching, immersion-tin dip... Sheesh, I did a lot of those years back. Even the best homemade etched board is shitty though. And you can't cut corners on the pricey lino film. Transparencies from an inkjet or laser may look good, but the black is not opaque enough for uv exposure. Board material and chemicals are not cheap either, so it gets pricey, and you still end up with a pretty crappy board. There is some laser printer material that you can print and then iron onto a bare copper board (then etch), but I have never used it. Can't imagine you could reliably use small geometry. But the cost is now just a cheap plain board, the laser material, and some acid. Maybe an aquarium heater to speed up etching. For a one-off board, and if the board is simple and just needs fat traces (this capacitor board may well be), you can also simply get a bare board, drill component/mounting holes, and isolate the "traces" but cutting through the copper appropriately with a dremel or xacto. You can even use double-sided material and isolate the upper ground plane with a small countersink at the component holes. I have also found a that a roll of adhesive copper tape can be very handy in times like this. gil >From: "Jim Kearney" >To: >Subject: Re: Cheap PCBs >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:32:55 -0500 >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >For only a few dollars more, you can get more boards with solder mask and >silkscreen. www.4pcb.com will do boards up to 150 sq inches for $33 ea in >quantity 3 and up, including mask and legend. www.e-teknet.com does qty 4 >up to 55 sq inches with mask and legend for only $22.99 each. I've used >both of them and the quality has been excellent. > >Jim ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From bill at timeguy.com Wed Nov 20 22:24:06 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021120131748.E98666-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> That reminds me! I just wanted to extend my congratulations and admiration to the author of this edition of the emulator for a job very well done. Thanks for sharing what was obviously a lot of work and care with us! From philip at awale.qc.ca Wed Nov 20 22:25:58 2002 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Manuals for HP LaserJet 2 33440A In-Reply-To: <3DDC0DA0.9440C902@compsys.to> Message-ID: On 20-Nov-2002 Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Anyone know where I can find both the User Manual > and the Service Manual for the LaserJet 2 33440A Printer? I have a LaserJet Printer Family Techincal Reference Manual. Covers LaserJet, LaserJet+ and LaserJet 500+ though, not what you want :/ -Philip From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 22:27:43 2002 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: osi dbi info needed Message-ID: <20021121013821.41655.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Found the problem, the +5 volt line on the siemans 8 inch drive is shorted - causing the power supply to shutdown. also i inserted the cpu boards (yes two of them) backwords(the osi backplane slot headers are not keyed)(joy, more rebuilding). i am really interested in info on "d & b computer systems" did they make more then clone boards for the osi systems? does anyone have the dip switch tables for the two banks of switches on the dbi cpu boards. the boards i am looking for info on are the dbi db1 (cpu mem and console board) and the d&b db-pfdco1 (fdc/comms board). the fdc board has a 50 pin header for the floppy's but also has a 40 pin header below it. can a 5-1/4 or 3 1/2 floppy drive be interfaced to a osi system? also what is the pinout of the osi/siemans fdd-100-8 e interface connector? it seems to be almost the same as the shugart 50 pin - but how does it work with the read data pin not used in the interface? Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Wed Nov 20 22:29:29 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > I don't know the answer to this next question: > > > > Would the cygwin DLL, OpenSSH, and all its required libs come anywhere > > near fitting on a floppy? > > IIRC, it's like 3 MB total. Gotcha. Too bad it wouldn't fit. It would be neat. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Nov 20 22:48:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: OT: NCR Teradata 'mainframe' Message-ID: I know this is OT by about 5 years, but... if anyone knows much about NCR Teradata systems (specifically a Worldmark 5100M), please contact me off-list. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 22:51:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: ATTN: Jeffrey Sharp (sorry for posting to the list but...) Message-ID: Jeff, This is what I got when I tried to reply to your e-mail, using jss@subatomix.com Hi. This is the qmail-send program at saghotta.pair.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) Is there a better e-mail to use??? Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Nov 20 23:11:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: How much would this be worth? References: <38805.134.146.0.6.1037806853.fastmailerweb@webmail.www.com> Message-ID: <004201c2911c$8da8d8c0$3e3fcd18@D73KSM11> There was an Intellec 8 for sale (sans manual or other stuff you're getting) at VCF 5 -- the same one that I think was on sale at VCF 4 two years earlier for $2000. Asking price this time was $1200, but I don't think it sold. Of course, it would command at least that amount on eBay. -W > Bit of a tricky question, but one that needs to be asked as i might > purchase one in A1 condition soon- and i don't want to be paying over the > odds for it. > INTEL INTELLEC-8 - (See attachment) > Model No. 8 - 84 > Serial No. 245 > S.D. 4.75 (Production Date?) > Fitted with the following cards:- > 1. Intel front panel Control Console card. imm 8 - 73 > 2. Intel CPU. card. imm 8 - 83 (D8080AFC) > 3. Intel 4k RAM Card. E48778 - 05 0042000 > 4. Intel 4k RAM Card. E48778 - 05 0042000 > 5. Intel I.O. module card 1000264 - 02 > 6. Intel PROM Programmer Module card E48778 - 0000090 > 7. Intel PROM memory module card. imm6-26 > 8. Mesonix 4K RAM Card > 9. Mesonix I.O. Controller card (See Mesonix Casette Unit) > > INTELLEC8 - INSTRUCTION MANUAL > The original instruction manual, although carefully preserved, now appears > to be missing and may well be lost. The Intellec8 will however be supplied > with a later instruction manual for the Intellec8/MOD 80, which explains > how it all works complete with a multitude of schematics etc. but > unfortunately missing the first and part of the second chapter.Chapter 1 - missing. > Chapter 2 - The imm8 - 83 CPU Card mostly intact - includes timing, > schematics & pinout diagrams.Chapter 3 - The imm8-61 Input/Output Card > Chapter 4 - The imm8-63 Output Card > Chapter 5 - The imm6-28 RAM Card > Chapter 6 - The imm6-26 PROM Card > Chapter 7 - The Intellec 8/MOD 80 Control Console > Chapter 8 - The Chassis, motherboard and power supplies > Chapter 9 - The imm6-76 Programmer Module > Chapter 10 - The Intellec 8/MOD 80 system utilisation > Appendix A - Instruction set summary > Appendix B - Electrical characteristics of logic elements used in the > Intellec 8/MOD 80 > CASSETTE TAPE UNIT - MESONIX AUTOMATION LTD. (See photo) > Model No. - Fitted DCR-3 Tape Unit (Phillips?) > Serial No. - Mesonix Tape Storage Unit. > Production Date 1976? > > STAND ALONE TAPE READER/TRANSMITTER - ADDMASTER 606 (See photo) > Model No.606 - (Parallel Output) > Serial No.606136 > Production Date 1975. > > DESKTOP PUNCH STATION - LITTON - SWEDA INTERNATIONAL, INC. (See Photo) > ROYTRON 528 PUNCH > Model No. 528 > Serial No. 528 - 23 - 3382 > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > WWW.COM - Where The Web Begins! http://www.www.com/ > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Nov 20 23:18:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: CBM Chip Question In-Reply-To: <3603.4.20.168.108.1037848139.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Nov 20, 2 07:08:59 pm" Message-ID: <200211210528.VAA10572@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > While rummaging thought my stock of Commodore chips, I came across a > > bunck of R6765 chips. I looked in some of my notes and I have "floppy > > controller" written down and elsewhere "D765". [...] > > Which Commodore drives was this chip used in? > > Not necessarily in any -- Rockwell made chips for a heck of a lot more > stuff than Commodore computers. If it was used in a Commodore drive, > it would most likely have been the 1571 or 1581, since AFAIK those > are the only drives they made that supported industry-standard MFM. I don't *think* they're in those either -- the WD 1770/2 are in the '71 and '81 (I'm not at my apartment right now, so I can't crack one open to check). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. -- Oscar Wilde From gil at vauxelectronics.com Wed Nov 20 23:31:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021120223624.009a0100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> What is this "hobbyist program" and "licensing" that is being mentioned? Is HP controlling use of old DEC stuff or something? thanks, gil >Message: 11 >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:00:14 -0600 >From: Jeffrey Sharp >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: >> If these are original DEC media tapes (rather than people's data) it might >> be possible to persuade him not to erase them, since the hobbyist program >> allows you to use them. (OTOH it might be safer to wipe them any way from >> 's point of view). > >He said that some contain student data. So those have to get bulked. > >He also said that he had software but I couldn't have it. I told him about >the hobbyist program, but at the time I didn't know enough about it to >really say anything knowledgable. If I told him I was licensed for sure, he >might change his mind. > >I just filled out the online Encompass Associate membership form. Anyone >know how long it takes to get a response? > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp > ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Nov 20 23:42:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021120223624.009a0100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > What is this "hobbyist program" and "licensing" that is being mentioned? > Is HP controlling use of old DEC stuff or something? > > thanks, > > gil Since Compaq bought DEC, and then HP bought/merged with Compaq, yes, HP owns DEC's IP. For info on the OpenVMS hobbyist program, see: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html or http://www.encompassus.com to become a member of Encompass (what was DECUS) so you can participate in the OpenVMS hobbyist program. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From fernande at internet1.net Thu Nov 21 01:34:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: HVD SCSI References: <200211202134.gAKLY7g30783@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DDC8CDF.8090109@internet1.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm trying to find some info on HVD SCSI. I know for Terminators I need HVD > SCSI Terminators, but what about cables. Will any old 68-pin SCSI cable do, > or do I need special cables? > > Also, does anyone have any favorite vendors that sell this sort of thing? > > Zane You shouldn't need anything special in cabling. On my internal drive I just used a regular 68 pin cable and cut the SE terminator off. I had an external set up at one point too, and I used a "Differential cable", but I believe it was labeled that only becasue of length...... HVD can be much longer than SE, and it was a 40 or 50 foot cable. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Nov 21 02:33:00 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:02 2005 Subject: What was 1st mouse, 1st keyboard? In-Reply-To: <000301c2910f$5388b3c0$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <18EbFQ-0eSwEKC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021121003256.030a93a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Just wondering, what was the first mouse, first keyboard (electronic, not mechanical), first 8 track player? (wonder if I still have my Muntz 4 track) From wpointon at earthlink.net Thu Nov 21 03:16:01 2002 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (bill pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Intel MCA Above Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60DBFAF8-FD32-11D6-AF78-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> Hi - somewhere around this mess of equipment in my office/computer room (though i cant find it at the moment) i have a Wang 286 - not MCA - that i upgraded long ago with an intel Above Board and and an Inboard 386 and i seem to recall there being a connector that gave the Inboard 386 processor direct bus and memory acess to the Above Board instead of having to go through the usually slower system bus - hope this bit of info is correct and useful to you -billp On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 11:51 , chris wrote: > I have an MCA board here (probably pulled from a PS/2, but I really am > not sure where it came from). > > Its marked as an Intel Above Board MC. And currently has 8 30 pin SIMMS > on it (1 MB each it looks like). From what I can find, I think this is > just a normal above board memory expansion card (max 32 MB?) > > However, there is also a 50 pin IDC connector on it. Is that for > connecting to a daughter card? I just want to confirm that fact, and > that > this isn't really some kind of a SCSI controller with a nice buffer on > it. I thought the Above Boards were just memory cards, but you never > know. (maybe if I could find something about them on Intel's site... but > their AboveBoards support section seems to have vanished) > > -chris > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Nov 21 05:48:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CBM Chip Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DDCD685.27815.292BD505@localhost> > While rummaging thought my stock of Commodore chips, I came > across a bunck of R6765 chips. I looked in some of my notes and I have > "floppy controller" written down and elsewhere "D765". Is this a > Rockwell-badged version of the NEC controller? Jep. Its a Rockwell made D765. > Which Commodore drives was this chip used in? No, at least none I know of. Commo used WD177x Controllers for their non GCR Drives. And for the early PCs, generic 765s have been used. Also Rockwell did add the chip quite late, to late for any Commo Products. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Nov 21 06:26:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.20021120223624.009a0100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021121072312.015ff18c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 12:46 AM 11/21/02 -0500, you wrote: >Since Compaq bought DEC, and then HP bought/merged with Compaq, yes, HP >owns DEC's IP. For info on the OpenVMS hobbyist program, see: > >http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html or >http://www.encompassus.com to become a member of Encompass (what was >DECUS) so you can participate in the OpenVMS hobbyist program. So what happened regarding membership after all? I remember that all emails from Encompass up to June/July seemed to imply that from then on you needed to be a paying member in order to belong to Encompass. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dittman at dittman.net Thu Nov 21 06:41:01 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20021121072312.015ff18c@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Nov 21, 2002 07:23:12 AM Message-ID: <200211211242.gALCgPF5016149@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Since Compaq bought DEC, and then HP bought/merged with Compaq, yes, HP > >owns DEC's IP. For info on the OpenVMS hobbyist program, see: > > > >http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html or > >http://www.encompassus.com to become a member of Encompass (what was > >DECUS) so you can participate in the OpenVMS hobbyist program. > > So what happened regarding membership after all? I remember that > all emails from Encompass up to June/July seemed to imply > that from then on you needed to be a paying member in order to > belong to Encompass. You do have the option of being an Associate. You don't pay any membership fee, and you aren't a member, but you do get to participate in the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jim at jkearney.com Thu Nov 21 07:50:01 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: <3.0.32.20021120210508.0094d100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <011a01c29165$2ee3a330$1001090a@xpace.net> > Back to the original question: I'm not sure how to do a non-gerber board > inexpensively. If the artwork is in a pdf file (or even a tif from a > scan), you would need to find a board house that could use it, but none > come to mind. Olimex (in Bulgaria) claims to accept them, but I don't think you would get any holes drilled. I just tried to convert a PDF file to Gerber by going to a BMP file and then converting that to an Eagle CAD script file, but it eventually failed because Eagle couldn't handle the number of rectangles that the simplistic converter generated. In principle it could work, if the converter made bigger rectangles than one per source pixel. LEADtools supports Gerber format as output in their libraries, so any of their tools might work. For example, ePrint (http://www.leadtools.com/Utilities/PrinterDriver/eprint_printer_driver.htm) is a generic Windows printer driver that has Gerber in its output format list. None of these work very well, though, because they're a lot of work and you don't have a drill file. I think in the end the only real solution is to get a Gerber file somehow, even if you have to re-enter the design in your CAD software. Toner transfer, iron-on and CNC milling all take far too much work for not particularly good results. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Nov 21 08:29:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Manuals for HP LaserJet 2 33440A References: Message-ID: <3DDCEDBD.98002568@compsys.to> >philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > > On 20-Nov-2002 Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > Anyone know where I can find both the User Manual > > and the Service Manual for the HP LaserJet 2 33440A Printer? > I have a LaserJet Printer Family Techincal Reference Manual. Covers > LaserJet, LaserJet+ and LaserJet 500+ though, not what you want. Jerome Fine replies: No, I would like both the manuals for the actual printer itself. Anyone else? If needed, I would be willing to purchase a copy of each. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Nov 21 08:31:00 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: WTB: Codar QTimer II Model 102 Message-ID: <3DDCEE59.7BC2DB79@compsys.to> Does anyone have any of these Qbus boards that I can buy? They have a TOY that has a window of 100 years. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Nov 21 08:57:01 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Manuals for HP LaserJet 2 33440A References: <3DDCEDBD.98002568@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3DDCF3AF.80561179@comcast.net> "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > > >philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > > > > On 20-Nov-2002 Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > Anyone know where I can find both the User Manual > > > and the Service Manual for the HP LaserJet 2 33440A Printer? > > I have a LaserJet Printer Family Techincal Reference Manual. Covers > > LaserJet, LaserJet+ and LaserJet 500+ though, not what you want. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > No, I would like both the manuals for the actual printer itself. > > Anyone else? If needed, I would be willing to purchase a > copy of each. So, you're looking to just posses the books, and not trying to fix a problem at the moment? I have "The LaserJet Companion" (by Crane & Pierce), if you want me to look up some info. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Nov 21 11:20:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CompuPro Net 100? Message-ID: <200211211720.gALHKag27052@io.crash.com> Anybody have a one-line description of the CompuPro Net 100? Was this Ethernet, serial, avian carrier...? Google seems to come up shy on this one, except for an old "for sale" posting to this list. Herb Johnson has docs, but I'm just trying to find out exactly what it did at this point... Thanks, --Steve. From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 21 11:35:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Fwd: CDP18S60 Evaluation Kit? In-Reply-To: <4F826F960057D4118EC3009027E2453807D86DC4@whl17.eev.uk> References: <4F826F960057D4118EC3009027E2453807D86DC4@whl17.eev.uk> Message-ID: <70239545588.20021121113700@subatomix.com> Can anyone help this person out? ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Paolo Malara To: classiccmp-admin@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, November 21, 2002, 1:51:23 AM Subject: CDP18S60 Evaluation Kit The CDP18S60 is an evaluation kit for the CDP1802 microprocessor, it is not very common and is used in some old microprocessor controlled machines. Does anyone have any data or schematics on the evaluation kit mentioned above? ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 21 11:55:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > Sellam wanted pictures (nothing like being over 2 years late) so go to > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk, hit 'inhabitants' and go to the STM section. Not any more, I picked one up earlier this year ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 21 11:59:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > The System 8000 is not really a development system... They are full-on > minicomputer-type UNIX machines.. It's a so-called "Super-micro"... I am You're probably right. I'm confusing my memory of a Zilog development system I picked up earlier this year with the System 8000. I also have a System 8000 so I don't know what I was thinking. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 21 12:00:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Hey Sellam, since it beats me which email address works best... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > I'll just write here... lol.. Was looking at the pics of your DPS-6, and > I think you actually have 3 systems, the 2 smaller cabinets appear to > each be a Microsystem 6 type machine... FWIW Yes. I need keyboards for the terminals sitting atop them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 21 12:07:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: How much would this be worth? In-Reply-To: <004201c2911c$8da8d8c0$3e3fcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > There was an Intellec 8 for sale (sans manual or other stuff you're > getting) at VCF 5 -- the same one that I think was on sale at VCF 4 two > years earlier for $2000. Asking price this time was $1200, but I don't > think it sold. Of course, it would command at least that amount on eBay. Actually, the system at VCF 5.0 is 8008-based. The one being posted about is 8080-based. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 21 12:09:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs Message-ID: <200211211810.KAA17792@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Kearney" > > >> Back to the original question: I'm not sure how to do a non-gerber board >> inexpensively. If the artwork is in a pdf file (or even a tif from a >> scan), you would need to find a board house that could use it, but none >> come to mind. > >Olimex (in Bulgaria) claims to accept them, but I don't think you would get >any holes drilled. > >I just tried to convert a PDF file to Gerber by going to a BMP file and then >converting that to an Eagle CAD script file, but it eventually failed >because Eagle couldn't handle the number of rectangles that the simplistic >converter generated. In principle it could work, if the converter made >bigger rectangles than one per source pixel. > >LEADtools supports Gerber format as output in their libraries, so any of >their tools might work. For example, ePrint >(http://www.leadtools.com/Utilities/PrinterDriver/eprint_printer_driver.htm) >is a generic Windows printer driver that has Gerber in its output format >list. > >None of these work very well, though, because they're a lot of work and you >don't have a drill file. I think in the end the only real solution is to >get a Gerber file somehow, even if you have to re-enter the design in your >CAD software. Toner transfer, iron-on and CNC milling all take far too much >work for not particularly good results. > > Hi Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone with a little cleverness could write a simple mouse program that would digitize mouse movements and buttons. It was a while back but I used to hand fix bad gerber files to get PC boards made. It seems that most programs still have bugs and will trash some of the commands. I'd display the gerber file on the screen and look for the big trapezoid or some other messed up thing. I'd then go in and change it back to the correct rectangle or what ever. It has been a number of years but like I said, it wasn't that complicated. You need to consider that is was a direct input sequence of moves for a gerber plotter. Dwight From jim at jkearney.com Thu Nov 21 12:47:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: <200211211810.KAA17792@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <0f6c01c2918e$9bc2be90$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. Actually I have a vague recollection that one of the board houses charged extra for "very large Gerber files caused by rasterized plots". From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Nov 21 13:27:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CompuPro Net 100? In-Reply-To: "Steve Jones"'s message of "Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:21:06 -0500" References: <200211211720.gALHKag27052@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <200211211903.gALJ3k1g012791@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Steve Jones" wrote: > Anybody have a one-line description of the CompuPro Net 100? Was > this Ethernet, serial, avian carrier...? Arcnet. -Frank McConnell From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Nov 21 14:26:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) In-Reply-To: <200211211242.gALCgPF5016149@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <3.0.2.32.20021121072312.015ff18c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021121152326.016082c4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:42 AM 11/21/02 -0600, you wrote: >You do have the option of being an Associate. You don't pay >any membership fee, and you aren't a member, but you do get >to participate in the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. Ok, that's the option which the Encompass emails did not seem to support anymore. Good. Otherwise I would have to backtrack the date sometime around 2003/07 :-) . Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Nov 21 14:42:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <0f6c01c2918e$9bc2be90$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > > Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone > > No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from > raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps > out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write > it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. A few years ago, I worked with a tools that took rasterized image files and converted them to vector based IGES files. It came on a single 1.44MB floppy and ran on a PC under Windows. It worked rather well, but but I can't for the life of me remember the name of the product. I seem to recall that it was fairly expensive... Ah-ha! http://www.trixsystems.com/whatsbestforrastertovector.html -brian. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Nov 21 15:20:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs References: Message-ID: <3DDD4E71.1070902@eoni.com> Ten minutes with Google yields Jim Brian Chase wrote: > On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > > >>>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >>> Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone >> >>No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from >>raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps >>out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write >>it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. > > > A few years ago, I worked with a tools that took rasterized image files > and converted them to vector based IGES files. It came on a single > 1.44MB floppy and ran on a PC under Windows. It worked rather well, but > but I can't for the life of me remember the name of the product. I seem > to recall that it was fairly expensive... > > Ah-ha! http://www.trixsystems.com/whatsbestforrastertovector.html > > -brian. > > . > From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Nov 21 15:33:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <0f6c01c2918e$9bc2be90$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > > Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone > > No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from > raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps > out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write > it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. > > Actually I have a vague recollection that one of the board houses charged > extra for "very large Gerber files caused by rasterized plots". > > > Plus its pretty hard to extract the drill info from a 'vectorized' raster plot... Peter Wallace From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 21 15:45:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: DEC Docs @ Gordon Bell's Homepage Message-ID: <146254500001.20021121154614@subatomix.com> I don't know if this has been linked to before, but I found it to have a few useful documents, including the System User's Guide to RT-11 V3. Gordon Bell's home page: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/ His CyberMuseum: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/CyberMuseumPubs.htm The DEC part of his CyberMuseum: http://research.microsoft.com/Users/gbell/Digital/DECMuseum.htm -- Jeffrey Sharp From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 21 16:14:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs Message-ID: <200211212215.OAA17868@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > >On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > >> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >> > Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone >> >> No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from >> raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps >> out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write >> it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. >> >> Actually I have a vague recollection that one of the board houses charged >> extra for "very large Gerber files caused by rasterized plots". >> >> >> > >Plus its pretty hard to extract the drill info from a 'vectorized' raster >plot... > > >Peter Wallace > Hi That is why I didn't say that one should write a program that reads scanned files, I said that one should have a tool that worked from a mouse ( with human attached ). Most tools that would look at scanned data would tend to make a lot of small rectangles instead of correctly grouping the information as a single large rectangle. We are talking about something that a human can easily do but a program has issues because it requires judgement. The fact is that Gerber files are quite simple. They are about as simple as one can get. Although I don't recall the exact syntax, it is thing like goto to x,y; with aperture wheel position 2 draw relative xx,yy; goto to u,v; with aperture wheel postion 3 flash; and so on and so on. I don't think one could describe a PC board any simpler than that. I never said that an automatic tool should be easy to write. I said that one could make a useful tool that would use a mouse to locate and draw( snap would be nice ). One would simply trace the pdf or what ever with the mouse. Dwight From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Nov 21 16:22:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: Message-ID: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > Quite a fun toy if you like odd processors. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that'd be quite likely on this list, Tony! BTW, recent acquisitions here include a Newbrain, an Amstrad CPC6128 and a PET. Two Z80s and a 6502; hmm, not very odd! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 21 16:33:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: DEC Docs @ Gordon Bell's Homepage In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Nov 21, 2002 03:46:14 PM Message-ID: <200211212235.gALMZ0q25679@shell1.aracnet.com> > I don't know if this has been linked to before, but I found it to have > a few useful documents, including the System User's Guide to RT-11 V3. > > Gordon Bell's home page: > http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/ > > His CyberMuseum: > http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/CyberMuseumPubs.htm > > The DEC part of his CyberMuseum: > http://research.microsoft.com/Users/gbell/Digital/DECMuseum.htm Interesting, a bunch of that stuff looks to be new, and it looks like the new stuff might be better done (as I recall he didn't have PDF's up before). After taking just a quick peek, I can see I'll have to have a better look at stuff once I can find the time. Zane From r.stek at snet.net Thu Nov 21 16:46:42 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! Message-ID: <000101c291b0$38744210$6401a8c0@mycroft> The manual I have is in the form of a large format (8 1/2 x 11) paperback, 237 pages with the authors of the software listed as Dale Buscaino and Scott Daniel (apparently aka Progressive Software Design) with the authorship of the manual given as them plus Michael Shrayer and Harvard Pennington ("TRS-80 Disk and Other Mysteries" and president of IJG). It was published in 1983 by IJG Inc. (the Thoughtware Company tm) of Upland, CA. A Google search revealed a review from 1984 by Betsy Staples, an editor at Creative Computing. It was a rewrite rather than a translation of the original code and had some expanded features and additional support programs. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Nov 21 17:17:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> References: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <1524.4.20.168.108.1037920755.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > BTW, recent acquisitions here include a Newbrain, > an Amstrad CPC6128 and a PET. Two Z80s and a 6502; > hmm, not very odd! Yeah, you need a TRS-80 Color Computer or PDP-11 if you want an odd processor. :-) From vance at neurotica.com Thu Nov 21 17:39:35 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Infoserver 1000 Message-ID: Does anyone know where I might be able to get the software and manuals for one of these tiny beasties? Peace... Sridhar From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Nov 21 17:42:05 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: <000101c291b0$38744210$6401a8c0@mycroft> Message-ID: Folks, Anyone got any memories or info on an early to mid 70s ICL mainframe that required a big keyboard known as the 7181/9? I've got one and I'm sure it was used on the 2900 mainframes and maybe earlier - big desk console types with built-in monitor but free standing keyboard...... Any info appreciated. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From alanp at snowmoose.com Thu Nov 21 17:44:05 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: List newbie Message-ID: <20021121233335.BF27043125@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Hi, I just found this list. Very cool. I mostly have early 90s stuff in my collection. A NeXT slab, a bunch of Sun lunch box machines, stuff like that. However, I also have a VAX-11/750 that used to belong to a university in Oregon. It came with the UNIBUS expansion cabinet, a TU80 tape drive, a SA482 rack, three RA81 and two RA82s, bunches of spare boards, loads of field service and other docs and a bunch of the cartridge tapes. When I get around to trying to bring it back up, I will just keep the base cabinet and the TU80 and the RA82s (one operational and one spare). I may keep the SA482 in case I get some interesting equipment that needs a rack. I presume that I can pull the expansion cabinet off of the base cabinet and attach the TU80 in its place. If so, if anyone needs a UNIBUS expansion cabinet ... I dismantled one of the RA81 drive enclosures. If anyone needs a RA81, I have two and a half. I also have a RX02 (two 8" floppy drives) that I want to get rid of. One thing that I am looking for is a drive bay front panel for a RA82. I have one for an RA81. Another thing that I am looking for is a Burroughs B1965. I worked at Burroughs/Unisys during the end of life of the B1900s and think they are cool machines. Later, alan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 21 17:49:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> <1524.4.20.168.108.1037920755.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DDD70EB.9060102@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: >>BTW, recent acquisitions here include a Newbrain, >>an Amstrad CPC6128 and a PET. Two Z80s and a 6502; >>hmm, not very odd! > > > Yeah, you need a TRS-80 Color Computer or PDP-11 if you want an odd > processor. :-) I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 21 17:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? Message-ID: Has there ever been a lawsuit over Microsoft's trademark of the word "Word" for its word processor that anyone knows of? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Nov 21 17:59:57 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: DEC Docs @ Gordon Bell's Homepage In-Reply-To: <200211212235.gALMZ0q25679@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Interesting, a bunch of that stuff looks to be new, and it looks like the > new stuff might be better done (as I recall he didn't have PDF's up before). > After taking just a quick peek, I can see I'll have to have a better look at > stuff once I can find the time. This might be a side-effect to his work at Microsoft on the `MyLifeBits' project: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2495649.stm I think the project is an /interesting/ one, but I'd really not be comfortable with Microsoft's stewardship of such a service. Talk about a marketing/profiling gold mine. -brian. From alanp at snowmoose.com Thu Nov 21 18:03:31 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: list newbie Message-ID: <20021122000507.120D04303D@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Since I was offering VAX bits that someone might want, someone suggested that I indicate where I am located. Well, I am located in the Seattle area. alan From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 21 18:06:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Infoserver 1000 In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Nov 21, 2002 02:00:09 PM Message-ID: <200211220005.gAM05ih29926@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone know where I might be able to get the software and manuals for > one of these tiny beasties? > > Peace... Sridhar Check the current OpenVMS Freeware site, I think it might be there. Zane From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 21 18:11:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: List newbie In-Reply-To: <20021121233335.BF27043125@smtp-relay.omnis.com> References: <20021121233335.BF27043125@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <106263271203.20021121181226@subatomix.com> On Thursday, November 21, 2002, Alan Perry wrote: > I just found this list. Very cool. I'm glad you like it. Just don't judge us by the web page. :-) I've been working on a new site, but it goes slowly due to me being in my last month of college. Enjoy the list. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Thu Nov 21 18:15:01 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <158263548352.20021121181703@subatomix.com> On Thursday, November 21, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Has there ever been a lawsuit over Microsoft's trademark of the word > "Word" for its word processor that anyone knows of? I don't think they claim 'Word' as a trademark. Neither their web site, the Word XP splash screen, nor the Word XP About dialog have a 'TM' or '(R)' mark around 'Word', yet all three of these things do claim 'Microsoft' with a '(R)'. -- Jeffrey Sharp From glenslick at hotmail.com Thu Nov 21 18:17:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Tektronix DC100 tapes? Message-ID: Did any Tektronix equipment use tapes that are compatible with HP DC100 tapes? I found a couple of unused tapes that have a Tektronix label but no part number that I can see. They look pretty much the same as an HP DC100 tape. I suppose I could just try them in an HP 2645A I picked up after I clean up the tape units, but it would be nice to know whether or not they really should work first. Also, anyone use HP 9144 tape drives, or have one they are not using? I found a couple of unused tapes for those units. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 21 18:30:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CBM Chip Question In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini" at Nov 20, 2 09:48:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 718 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021121/677942c1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 21 18:31:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Manuals for HP LaserJet 2 33440A In-Reply-To: <3DDCF3AF.80561179@comcast.net> from "David Woyciesjes" at Nov 21, 2 09:54:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021121/ca4b0dff/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Nov 21 18:34:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? References: Message-ID: <01d901c291be$fab86f00$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Bill G. may have something far more serious to contend with after his earthly demise, than lawsuits: John 1:1 (KJV) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Oooooops ! But than again.... Jesus is reported to have said: And it is more likely for a Camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven .... So the chances in the hereafter for him are pretty slim anyway Of course he could donate away $32.5 billion to me R.S.N. (I don't mind, I'm an atheist anyway) Sipke de Wal --------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? > > Has there ever been a lawsuit over Microsoft's trademark of the word > "Word" for its word processor that anyone knows of? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 21 18:35:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Nov 21, 2 10:18:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021121/8a1ee1c1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 21 18:37:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <1524.4.20.168.108.1037920755.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Nov 21, 2 03:19:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 349 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021121/7203851d/attachment.ksh From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Nov 21 18:43:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs In-Reply-To: <200211212215.OAA17868@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Peter C. Wallace" > > > >On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jim Kearney wrote: > > > >> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >> > Gerber format is not all that complicated. It seems that someone > >> > >> No, it's not. It doesn't seem like there's an off-the-shelf way to go from > >> raster (PDF or TIFF) to vector (Gerber), though, or at least nothing jumps > >> out from Google. In principle it would be easy to load a raster and write > >> it out as a set of lines in Gerber format. > >> > >> Actually I have a vague recollection that one of the board houses charged > >> extra for "very large Gerber files caused by rasterized plots". > >> > >> > >> > > > >Plus its pretty hard to extract the drill info from a 'vectorized' raster > >plot... > > > > > >Peter Wallace > > > > Hi > That is why I didn't say that one should write a program > that reads scanned files, I said that one should have a tool > that worked from a mouse ( with human attached ). Most tools > that would look at scanned data would tend to make a lot > of small rectangles instead of correctly grouping the information > as a single large rectangle. We are talking about something that > a human can easily do but a program has issues because it > requires judgement. > The fact is that Gerber files are quite simple. They are > about as simple as one can get. Although I don't recall the > exact syntax, it is thing like goto to x,y; with aperture > wheel position 2 draw relative xx,yy; goto to u,v; with > aperture wheel postion 3 flash; and so on and so on. > I don't think one could describe a PC board any simpler than > that. I never said that an automatic tool should be easy to > write. I said that one could make a useful tool that would use > a mouse to locate and draw( snap would be nice ). One would > simply trace the pdf or what ever with the mouse. > Dwight > > > Gerber files are very simple vector commands (the earliest plotters had very little brains - all hardwired logic...) D14* C{ Chose aperture 14 } X10038Y9785D02* { moveto x=10038,y=9785 } X10063Y9810D01* { drawto x=10063,y=9810 } Y9860* { drawto x=10063 y=9860 } X10263* { drawto x=10263 y=9860 } Y9810* X10238* X10213Y9785* X10038* X10043Y9790D02* { moveto x=10043 y=9790 } D51* { Chose aperture 51 } X8913Y10341D03* { flash pad at x=8913 y=10341} Y6160D03* X11113Y9860D03* Y6160D03* ... Peter Wallace From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Nov 21 18:54:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> <1524.4.20.168.108.1037920755.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3DDD7F56.5040708@gifford.co.uk> Eric Smith wrote: >>BTW, recent acquisitions here include a Newbrain, >>an Amstrad CPC6128 and a PET. Two Z80s and a 6502; >>hmm, not very odd! > Yeah, you need a TRS-80 Color Computer or PDP-11 if you want an odd > processor. :-) I have a 6303 in the Psion Organiser... that's odd! Or how about a T801 transputer? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Nov 21 19:14:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDD70EB.9060102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3DDD5BC1.3000108@gifford.co.uk> <1524.4.20.168.108.1037920755.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3DDD70EB.9060102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3149.4.20.168.135.1037927759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs > like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. Intel's had their share of odd processors as well, such as the 8035 and 8051. The 8089 as well, though it's not a general-purpose processor. For that matter, the original Pentium is odd, though not all later ones are. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Nov 21 19:17:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CMD Technology Unibus SCSI card Message-ID: I have managed to latch on to one of the above cards... the sticker on one chip says its a Model CDU-720/TM (sn 2127 BOYA8) and two ROMS have F720Y1A8 and 2A8 respectively. Board copyright is 1989 (in copper) and the silkscreening says 1991 - most of the chips are from '91. It is single-ended only; the differential section is not populated. I have yet to do any Googling, but if anyone has anything on this... I know a nice friendly 11/44 system (sitting to my immediate left) that would dearly love to be able to read CDROMS, SCSI disks, etc.... Cheers John From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Nov 21 19:33:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: CMD Technology Unibus SCSI card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2054.4.20.168.135.1037928904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John Lawson wrote: > I have managed to latch on to one of the above cards... the sticker > on > one chip says its a Model CDU-720/TM (sn 2127 BOYA8) and two ROMS have > F720Y1A8 and 2A8 respectively. Board copyright is 1989 (in copper) and > the silkscreening says 1991 - most of the chips are from '91. It is > single-ended only; the differential section is not populated. Nice find! Since it's a /TM, it can talk to both tapes and disks. It needs to be configured for one CSR address for MSCP, and another for TMSCP. > I have yet to do any Googling, but if anyone has anything on this... http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/cmd/cdu-722.txt > I > know a nice friendly 11/44 system (sitting to my immediate left) that > would dearly love to be able to read CDROMS, SCSI disks, etc.... CD-ROM drives will probably have to be jumpered for 512-byte sectors (vs. the standard 2048). Many Toshiba and Plextor SCSI drives have such a setting. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Nov 21 19:44:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, we've added a Dragon 32! Also, we now have a 1973 Univac 80 and a 1978 NCR T-8255. In about 10 days, we're going after a rare Wang VS-90 system outside of Wilmington, Delaware. On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > Folks, > > Anyone got any memories or info on an early to mid 70s ICL mainframe that > required a big keyboard known as the 7181/9? I've got one and I'm sure it > was used on the 2900 mainframes and maybe earlier - big desk console types > with built-in monitor but free standing keyboard...... > > Any info appreciated. > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 21 19:47:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:03 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: <200211220147.RAA17971@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >> I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs >> like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. > >Intel's had their share of odd processors as well, such >as the 8035 and 8051. The 8089 as well, though it's not a >general-purpose processor. > >For that matter, the original Pentium is odd, though not all >later ones are. > Ok, how about the 8022 or even the i2920. Dwight From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Nov 21 19:48:47 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: osi docs needed In-Reply-To: <20021120033432.57314.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, I didn't want to reply until I was holding it in my hand (took some digging)... I have the document: Denver Board Model DB-1 Terminal Expansion Board Installation and Operation Interestingly, I don't seem to have an actual board (I didn't dig as hard for the board). Anyway, this document has everything, including BASIC and assembler listings (both for OS mods and ROM dumps), schematics and parts lists and board layout, theory of operation, etc. Dated 11 November 1982 (it just had its 20th birthday). Oh, it was revised 3 October 1983. Big puppy, probably 100 pages, double sided I don't know when I'll have the time to copy it... If you can give me specific questions, I'll try to answer them from the manual. Of course, eventually I would like to scan it and make it available online (along with 4 other Xerox paper boxes full of OSI docs). I know this subject has been hashed over before, but does anyone in the Washington, DC area have access to scanning facilities? Bill From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Nov 21 19:53:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <200211220147.RAA17971@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200211220147.RAA17971@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4862.4.20.168.135.1037930066.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Ok, how about the 8022 or even the i2920. No, though the 8021 (little brother of the 8022) is odd. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Nov 21 20:06:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: CMD Technology Unibus SCSI card In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 21, 2002 08:16:24 PM Message-ID: <200211220207.gAM27j303927@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have managed to latch on to one of the above cards... the sticker on > one chip says its a Model CDU-720/TM (sn 2127 BOYA8) and two ROMS have > F720Y1A8 and 2A8 respectively. Board copyright is 1989 (in copper) and > the silkscreening says 1991 - most of the chips are from '91. It is > single-ended only; the differential section is not populated. > > > I have yet to do any Googling, but if anyone has anything on this... I > know a nice friendly 11/44 system (sitting to my immediate left) that > would dearly love to be able to read CDROMS, SCSI disks, etc.... Try ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/CMD720 I don't know about CMD boards, but with Viking boards, the ability to use CD-ROMs depends on the revision of your ROMs. I'd also recommend initially trying CD-ROM drives capable of 512-byte blocks. Zane From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Thu Nov 21 20:09:00 2002 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Newbie enquiries Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080AEA@email1.parl.net> Hi All, I found some old computer book during our spring clean (I'm in the southern hemisphere) and I got all nostalgic for the first computer I ever programmed a PDP-11/0?. The reason for the question mark is I cannot definitely remember if it was an 03, 04, or 05. So I was hoping I might fire off a bit of my remembered details, and someone here could help me definitively identify the machine. I have done some web searching and I have not been able to sort it out yet. The system comprised a CPU and dual 8" floppy in a half height rack, on top of which sat a marked sense card reader, and in the corner was a DEC line printer. My memory of the CPU front panel is that it looks somewhat like an 11/34 picture I found in the user manual PDF with the programmers console. But I definitely remember it as an "slash zero" something model, so I believe that it was an 04. However the only picture of an 04 I have found to date has a rather basic looking programmers panel, by basic I mean as it is simple white text on black panel and buttons. I seem to remember the octal keypad had a border drawn on the pane and was a little bit smarter looking, maybe there were updated cosmetic version of the panel. The system booted straight to a local derivative of FORTRAN (MONECS FORTRAN), so we were insulated from the hardware and I therefore have no memory or interface card details. Any help in IDing the machine would be greatly appreciated. Now this leads me to the second reason for this message. I would like to collect a sample of the machine in question, but I am unsure of how to proceed. What are your tried and tested ways of locating such antique hardware? Also I saw an ebay auction for two RK05 disk packs today. Would these be usable with an 11/0? system? And if so what would be a reasonable price to pay? I have lurked on the list for a few weeks now, and think that I shall stick around and get into the classic computer collecting myself (time and wife permitting). OH BTW, I contacted Charles L. regarding his Zilog 8000 system (the Z8000 being another chip I found interesting when it came out). He is unsure if he actually wants to part with the machine at the present time. That might just be my first dead end lead in this new hobby of mine. Thanks in advance, David Kane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Nov 21 20:11:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: <200211220209.SAA17979@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >> Ok, how about the 8022 or even the i2920. > >No, though the 8021 (little brother of the 8022) is odd. > > > > Hi Eric I wrote code for the development chip 8021 to test the A/D. I never got one to actually give me a true 8 bits. 6 to 7 someplace was typical. I made a little fixture to plug it into as well. The developement chip was in one of those funny packages, like the 432's. Brings back memories. Dwight From alanp at snowmoose.com Thu Nov 21 20:44:20 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Bringing an 11/750 power supply back to life Message-ID: <20021122024523.5D86E42C34@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Before I got my VAX, it went down because the power supply went out. I have the print set and the 'Technical Description' document for the power supply and I am fairly comfortable dealing with this stuff, but I am not an expert. If I attempt to repair the power supply myself, is there anything that I should avoid doing so I don't kill myself? alan From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Nov 21 20:59:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early leadless ceramic chip carriers (was Re: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia) In-Reply-To: <200211220209.SAA17979@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200211220209.SAA17979@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1472.4.20.168.135.1037934067.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > I wrote code for the development chip 8021 to > test the A/D. I never got one to actually give > me a true 8 bits. 6 to 7 someplace was typical. > I made a little fixture to plug it into as well. > The developement chip was in one of those funny > packages, like the 432's. For those that haven't seen that package, there are some photos on my site: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/intel/iapx432/quip/ Recently I was reading an old Intel Development Systems data book, and noticed the 8021 emulator board using the ceramic leadless QUIP package. I think Intel used that for other bond-out chips as well, back in the early 1980s; by 1985 they had moved to the JEDEC type A (or was it B?) square 68-contact ceramic leadless chip carrier (CLCC). As far as I know, the only Intel chips packaged in the ceramic QUIP which were offered for sale were the 432 components. And I'm not aware of any other vendor using the ceramic QUIP. In the 1980s Motorola and HP used a different square ceramic leadless chip carrier, called a SLAM package. I'm not sure what that stands for. The only common part to use it was the Motorola DSP56001. Somewhere I still have a handful of those and the sockets for them. Maybe I should sell them for big bucks to a chip collector. :-) Eric From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Nov 21 21:14:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Intel MCA Above Board In-Reply-To: <60DBFAF8-FD32-11D6-AF78-003065ED7126@earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3DDD4CFF.21197.1A1AC08@localhost> I have an Intel Inboard 386/PC installed on one of my IBM PCs and a bunch of docs and programs from the original Intel archive. Including softset.exe ( !! thought it was gone for good. ) They mention a connector which is for the 386/PC piggyback memory cards, Imeg (pcib1210), 2meg (pcib1220, and 4meg (pcib1240). The 386/AT was a bit different and did have a cable for connection to expanded memory. I'd kill for one of the PC piggyback cards. I like original machines but I get great joy in pushing their parameters. Lawrence > Hi - somewhere around this mess of equipment in my office/computer room > (though i cant find it at the moment) i have a Wang 286 - not MCA - that > i upgraded long ago with an intel Above Board and and an Inboard 386 and > i seem to recall there being a connector that gave the Inboard 386 > processor direct bus and memory acess to the Above Board instead of > having to go through the usually slower system bus - hope this bit of > info is correct and useful to you -billp > > On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 11:51 , chris wrote: > > > I have an MCA board here (probably pulled from a PS/2, but I really am > > not sure where it came from). > > > > Its marked as an Intel Above Board MC. And currently has 8 30 pin > > SIMMS on it (1 MB each it looks like). From what I can find, I think > > this is just a normal above board memory expansion card (max 32 MB?) > > > > However, there is also a 50 pin IDC connector on it. Is that for > > connecting to a daughter card? I just want to confirm that fact, and > > that this isn't really some kind of a SCSI controller with a nice > > buffer on it. I thought the Above Boards were just memory cards, but > > you never know. (maybe if I could find something about them on Intel's > > site... but their AboveBoards support section seems to have vanished) > > > > -chris > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From gil at vauxelectronics.com Thu Nov 21 22:24:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Cheap PCBs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021121212949.008c1100@mail.vauxelectronics.com> For a Gerber RS-273X Format document, see: http://www.maniabarco.com/transdown/rs274xrevd_e.pdf The X format contains all cad data, whereas the RS-274D format needs a separate exellon-format drill file as well. gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Nov 21 23:36:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada Message-ID: <3DDD6F02.14864.5E9E3C@localhost> As a Canadian, I must explain to our US neighbors that the press misunderstood the Canadian official at the Prague meetings who was reported as saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval meaning "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he meant. And of course Dick Cheyny is also a veritable moron, (in Can. slang terms , of course). Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Nov 22 00:01:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada Message-ID: <200211220602.gAM62Tg29002@io.crash.com> > As a Canadian, I must explain to our US neighbors that the press > misunderstood the Canadian official at the Prague meetings who was > reported as saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. While our current leadership ranges from stupid and grasping to downright evil and ready to shred our Constitution, many of us are still capable of rational thought. He's a president, and while the office deserves respect the man himself must still be judged on his own merits. And, just my opinion, found severely wanting... So thanks for the yucks, and don't bother writing to me directly. Admiral Poindexter should be dispatching the brown shirts to have a chat with me as soon as this message passes through his current sieve. Now, where did I put that code for the old NSA line-eater appender... Sigh, --Steve. From allain at panix.com Fri Nov 22 00:05:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada References: <3DDD6F02.14864.5E9E3C@localhost> Message-ID: <01f701c291ed$50a284e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > the press misunderstood the Canadian official... > saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. > In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval > meaning "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he > meant. Unclear. Is the Canadian Official saying that He himself is a moron, so that George Bush is hip by association? Explain. John A. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Nov 22 00:21:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada References: +ADw-3DDD6F02.14864.5E9E3C+AEA-localhost+AD4- +ADw-01f701c291ed+ACQ-50a284e0+ACQ-21fe54a6+AEA-ibm23xhr06+AD4- Message-ID: <00a701c291ef$9c9bc260$3e3fcd18@D73KSM11> > > the press misunderstood the Canadian official... > > saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. > > > In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval > > meaning "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he > > meant. > > Unclear. > Is the Canadian Official saying that He himself is a moron, > so that George Bush is hip by association? Explain. > > John A. > I think he's saying that instead of "moron" the official may have said "more on", as in, "that George Bush, he's really 'more on'". -W From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Nov 22 00:25:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada Message-ID: <200211220626.gAM6QGg29049@io.crash.com> > ... many of us are still capable of rational thought. I love that line, coming in the middle of such a rant. Yeah yeah, poor taste to respond to my own post, but when I'm not pissed off over the roving checkpoints and assault on civil liberties, I gotta laugh at myself. --S. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Nov 22 00:43:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Newbie enquiries In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080AEA@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021122173818.023ae960@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:10 PM 22/11/2002 +1100, Kane, David (DPRS) wrote: >The system comprised a CPU and dual 8" floppy in a half height rack, on >top of which sat a marked sense card reader, and in the corner was a DEC >line printer. My memory of the CPU front panel is that it looks somewhat >like an 11/34 picture I found in the user manual PDF with the programmers >console. But I definitely remember it as an "slash zero" something model, >so I believe that it was an 04. However the only picture of an 04 I have >found to date has a rather basic looking programmers panel, by basic I >mean as it is simple white text on black panel and buttons. I seem to >remember the octal keypad had a border drawn on the pane and was a little >bit smarter looking, maybe there were updated cosmetic version of the >panel. The system booted straight to a local derivative of FORTRAN (MONECS >FORTRAN), so we were insulated from the hardware and I therefore have no >memory or interface card details. The MONECS system we had at La Trobe for many years was an 11/23 (maybe an 11/23+) although this was the prepackaged version from Digital known as the DEAMON. For those of you outside of Australia: MONECS - MONash (University) Educational Computing System DEAMON - Digital Equipment Australia / MONash Monash University developed a card based system where the user wrote code (in FORTRAN, COBOL and ISTR a pseudo-assembler) and used pre-punched or mark sense cards. You queued up to use the card reader, loaded your own job and collected output almost immediately. I used the main frame based (probably Burroughs) predecessor to lean to program FORTRAN in either 1969 or 1970. We used to send our cards by post to Monash and if we were lucky would get one run a week.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From gil at vauxelectronics.com Fri Nov 22 01:04:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 single-density/double-density questions Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021122000922.007fdac0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Don: Yes! Using the " key for drive-B boot on the Osborne worked. And this double-density unit booted with my single-density software. That's the first the machine has booted cp/m. When I try to access drive A, it sounds like the stepper is constantly driving the head against a stop. I'll need to check the drive out. It didn't want to format a disk properly though. Does this mean that a proper double-density version of cp/m is needed? I need to get a pc together to run this 22DISK I've been hearing about. thanks, gil At 12:29 PM 11/21/02 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > >The difference between the SD and DD machines is a small daughter card >that fits between the floppy drive header on the motherboard and the >ribboncable to the drives. The drives themselves are the same for both >SD and DD. > >You can try to boot from your B drive by depressing right shift and the >'/" keys. Depressing Return/Enter will return to A boot. > > - don ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Nov 22 01:20:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c291f7$9dddbea0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Anyone got any memories or info on an early to mid 70s ICL mainframe that > required a big keyboard known as the 7181/9? I've got one and I'm sure it > was used on the 2900 mainframes and maybe earlier - big desk console types > with built-in monitor but free standing keyboard...... We never used those particular devices at our installation, but I did see some info on them (I think there was also a 7184 of similar nature). These were synchronous, block transmission terminals - a screenful of information was sent at a time (either system -> terminal or terminal -> system). Used on the 1900 series and perhaps 2900s. Normally connected via a 7900 series communications processor (better known as a PF56), but some of the last smaller 1900s (1901T & 1902T) had a built-in adaptor. Andy From curt at atari-history.com Fri Nov 22 01:59:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Arpanet IMP's References: <000201c291f7$9dddbea0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <005301c291fc$f56f1880$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Anyone here on the list actually own one of these??? Any chance we'll see one at an upcoming VCF???? From gil at vauxelectronics.com Fri Nov 22 02:23:01 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. Anyone have any favorites? gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 02:25:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? In-Reply-To: <158263548352.20021121181703@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Thursday, November 21, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Has there ever been a lawsuit over Microsoft's trademark of the word > > "Word" for its word processor that anyone knows of? > > I don't think they claim 'Word' as a trademark. Neither their web site, the > Word XP splash screen, nor the Word XP About dialog have a 'TM' or '(R)' > mark around 'Word', yet all three of these things do claim 'Microsoft' with > a '(R)'. Good, because at the last ham fest I went to I found the product box for VisiOn's "Word" word processing program (circa 1982-1983). Microsoft's first version of their "Word" shipped September 29, 1983 (according to this document: http://www.microsoft.com/msft/download/keyevents.doc). Some may remember VisiOn, which was VisiCorp's text-based windowing operating environment that came out before and was much better than Windows 1.0 but was somehow screwed out of the market. The package was in excellent shape, but I was highly saddened when I popped it open and all that was inside were some blank floppies :( Someone had turned it into a disk binder. The software and manuals were gone :( (I still bought it though.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 02:28:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Newbie enquiries In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080AEA@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Kane, David (DPRS) wrote: > OH BTW, I contacted Charles L. regarding his Zilog 8000 system (the > Z8000 being another chip I found interesting when it came out). He is > unsure if he actually wants to part with the machine at the present > time. That might just be my first dead end lead in this new hobby of > mine. Huh? He was all ready to give it away when he first sent me e-mail about it. He said he would rather it go to a good home than to just simply toss it. Maybe he got enough responses that he thinks he can get A$$$ for it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 02:35:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Arpanet IMP's In-Reply-To: <005301c291fc$f56f1880$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Anyone here on the list actually own one of these??? Any chance we'll > see one at an upcoming VCF???? You could've seen one at VCF 5.0 if you went on the tour to the Computer History Museum. In fact, you could have seen the (only?) mobile internet node (it's the gray box truck parked outside the Visible Storage building). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Fri Nov 22 02:41:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDDEE2E.6080604@internet1.net> gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil You mean an early laptop? I had a Zenith Z100 or Z180, or Z something..... I think. Honestly, I don't know what it was called :-) I think it was from about 86, and was an 8088. It was a nice little computer. It wan't all that big. It was truly a laptop, not a luggable. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From curt at atari-history.com Fri Nov 22 02:47:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Arpanet IMP's References: Message-ID: <006001c29203$bef85c60$0b00a8c0@cvendel> That'll teach me to never miss another VCF again! :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Arpanet IMP's > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Anyone here on the list actually own one of these??? Any chance we'll > > see one at an upcoming VCF???? > > You could've seen one at VCF 5.0 if you went on the tour to the Computer > History Museum. > > In fact, you could have seen the (only?) mobile internet node (it's the > gray box truck parked outside the Visible Storage building). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From curt at atari-history.com Fri Nov 22 02:49:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <006501c29203$e0b4fcf0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> I loved the Tandy Model 100 and 200, NEC had a nice laptop early on, the Toshiba 3100 with its Orange Plasma screen rocked!!! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "gil smith" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:28 AM Subject: early pc with lcd screen > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Nov 22 04:55:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021122025136.02a0dba0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early >dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. I like ALL the early stuff and for no good reason I can think of. The Apple Portable, the early powerbooks and the Duo units (carry around VERY small with floppy etc in a docking station. The IBM convertible, the LX-40, even the nasty big P75 (saw one sitting in a shop the other day), the Thinkpads with butterfly keyboards. All neat. Heck I am even pretty jazzed at the current generation of portables, ultra thin, very powerfull with DVD etc. Definately excites my gadget bone. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 22 06:37:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDD70EB.9060102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DDE3389.11332.2E7F2D12@localhost> > >>BTW, recent acquisitions here include a Newbrain, > >>an Amstrad CPC6128 and a PET. Two Z80s and a 6502; > >>hmm, not very odd! > > Yeah, you need a TRS-80 Color Computer or PDP-11 if you want an odd > > processor. :-) > I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs > like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. Hmm... I have a hard time to agree here. The 8086/7/9 is to me one of the best CPU designs ever - at least for a true 16 Bit machine. I true atempt to brng the good parts of mainframe design to microprocessors. Ok, if we just look at the CPU, then the 9900 will catch the title for beeing a true 16 Bit design. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 22 07:03:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3149.4.20.168.135.1037927759.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3DDD70EB.9060102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DDE3986.17047.2E96937D@localhost> > > I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs > > like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. > Intel's had their share of odd processors as well, such > as the 8035 and 8051. The 8089 as well, though it's not a > general-purpose processor. Who ever played around with low level programming on a mainframe (/370ish) will recognize the structure Intel had in mind when they designed the 8086/87/89 family. On a 3/70 you usualy have at least one CPU (=86) and one IOC (=89), while the FPU (=87) was a (never needed) option. The high performance of classic mainframes was based on this concept, and if you look at modern PCs, somehow, 20 years later it creeps back into PCs with programmable graphic processors and quite complicated disk protocolls. Having a seperate processor to handle all the low level (and fast reaction) tasks of I/O handling also supports well structured and simple oterating systems - and even more, device drivers can be writen 100% independant from the operating syswtem. If IBM had folowed Intel in using the 8089 the problem of geting a device driver for unit X and operating system Y wouldn't be the problem we have today. Intel was around 1976-1980 a quite innovative place, the fact is widely ignored by common media. Just remember the 432, or the 186, still one of the best all in one CPUs around. Everybody just sees and points out the PC CPUs - and a lot of them are repeating the dogma that the 86 is a bad design. I'm defenitly not an Intel fellow, just the other way, I started out in the /370 world, and prefered 68xx / 65xx CPUs and I never liked the 8080/85 (or Z80), but Intel-basching without diferentiation gets me upset. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Nov 22 07:07:00 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021123000555.023ae960@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 01:28 AM 22/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Hi folks: > >I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early >dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > >Anyone have any favorites? Well I own a Panasonic DOS laptop. It's got a NEC V20 CPU, 640K memory and DOS 3.3 in ROM. I purchased it new in either 1988 or 1989 basically to use as a terminal to dial in to work. Still got it sitting around here somewhere in a cupboard. The floppy drive appears to be dead (along with the battery) but replacing the floppy would make for a nice portable terminal for the VAXstation I plan to take on holidays this year. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Nov 22 07:25:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Bringing an 11/750 power supply back to life Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034290@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Before I got my VAX, it went down because the power supply went out. I have the print set and the >'Technical Description' document for the power supply and I am fairly comfortable dealing with this >stuff, but I am not an expert. The print sets are already on the web but is there any chance of scanning the PSU TD? Yours is the 3rd or 4th VAX-11/750 with potential PSU issues mentioned here in the last year or so. >If I attempt to repair the power supply myself, is there anything that I should avoid doing so I >don't kill myself? Keep away from the machine and you'll be safe :-) Seriously, think about each step you are taking, don't do anything unless you think you know what you are doing and why, keep one hand in a pocket or behind your back, and (most important I guess) make sure there is someone nearby who knows what you are up to and what to do if they find you writhing on the ground. If you post more details about the symptoms (which, if any, lights come on, what readings you have already taken etc) I expect you'll find this list full of useful advice. Antonio From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 22 07:31:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <200211220626.gAM6QGg29049@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <3DDE4037.31623.2EB0B6F5@localhost> > > ... many of us are still capable of rational thought. > I love that line, coming in the middle of such a rant. Yeah yeah, > poor taste to respond to my own post, but when I'm not pissed off > over the roving checkpoints and assault on civil liberties, I > gotta laugh at myself. Thanks ... from over here this theatre passed already the sates of funny, "weired Americanos" and who cares ... it's plain right scary by now. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From n4fs at monmouth.com Fri Nov 22 07:51:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada References: <200211220626.gAM6QGg29049@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> Well if you miss your Civil Liberties so much move to Iraq. Or, for that matter just move anywhere outside of the USA, and enjoy your civil liberties there. I certainly do not feel like I am missing any of mine since they are still there. Having have grown up under Communism, I am too familiar with the lack of those liberties. If I can avoid it, I will never set foot in another country outside of the USA, again. Just the fact that you are able to say such a moronic (and I mean it literally) statement proves that you are indeed in the best country there is. In my opinion, President Bush is doing exceptionally well, in spite of the bureaucratic BS that has been allowed to develop here by people with your views and that of the ACLU. A lot of natural born Americans take way too much for granted and expect the government to save them from their own stupidity. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jones" when I'm not pissed off > over the roving checkpoints and assault on civil liberties, I > gotta laugh at myself. > > --S. > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Nov 22 07:56:00 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <01f701c291ed$50a284e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <3DDD6F02.14864.5E9E3C@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021122085431.02155780@mail.wincom.net> At 01:06 AM 22/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >+AD4- the press misunderstood the Canadian official... >+AD4- saying +ACI-What a moron+ACI- in reference to George Dubya. > >+AD4- In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval >+AD4- meaning +ACI-more on top of it+ACI-, hipper. I'm sure that's what he >+AD4- meant. > >Unclear. >Is the Canadian Official saying that He himself is a moron, >so that George Bush is hip by association? Explain. > >John A. Don't get upset, chaps. Our Canadian politicians are all good people until they get elected and move to Ottawa, where it is so cold that their brains all freeze up. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Nov 22 08:17:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? Message-ID: Looking in the 1991 version of the Word for Windows (TM) User's Guide, "Word" is not listed on the page opposite the Table of Contents as trademarked. In the text, "Word" is capitalized, but not trademarked, as are "Windows (TM)" or "Microsoft (R)". -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Lawsuit over the use of Microsoft's "Word"? On Thursday, November 21, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Has there ever been a lawsuit over Microsoft's trademark of the word > "Word" for its word processor that anyone knows of? I don't think they claim 'Word' as a trademark. Neither their web site, the Word XP splash screen, nor the Word XP About dialog have a 'TM' or '(R)' mark around 'Word', yet all three of these things do claim 'Microsoft' with a '(R)'. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Nov 22 08:18:58 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Mac Haul (& ImageWriters II's available) Message-ID: <128.1bcecedc.2b0f96bb@aol.com> Mac Haul (& ImageWriters II's available) I found out yesterday morning just how many Macs will fit in my car. Here's the list: Performa 6116CD - 1 Performa 400 - 1 LC475 - 15 LC II - 1 LC - 1 IIsi - 1 IIe - 1 with 2 Disk II's and a couple of separate spares. SE - 3 Monitors - 14" Color Display - 9, plus one other with the odd connector for the 6116 ImageWriter II - 5 So what's that? Two dozen machines, 10 monitors, and five printers. No wonder my car was riding low. Most of the above was delivered to a private church school last night. I have a friend whose daughter attends the school, and he maintains their machines in his spare time. In fact, I doubt the school would have many computers if it were not for his efforts. So I try to help out some. All of these came from a local Intel reseller. He has no interest in Macs and I knew that he had just gotten in several pallets of hardware that included the above machines. So my friend got the school to approve $50 for me to get as much hardware as I could. I went in and made a deal for what I could and talked the reseller into donating the rest with a promise of a letter from the school to cover the donation. In essence, all the machines you can cram in one car for $50. There was a gotcha in this of course. I had to take the ImageWriters. As we were unloading, I gave my friend the option of refusing them. He did. So I have 5 ImageWriter II's, one is missing a cover. I would like to get rid of these, so I will make these available to the list. However, I don't have time right now to either store them or mess with shipping. So if you want these, they are available for PICKUP ONLY just south of Terre Haute, Indiana, USA. The business next to me allows me to fill their unused dumpster space on Wednesday night just prior to Thursday's pick up. If you want these they will have to be out of here by next Wednesday, 11/27/02. Mike Thompson From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Nov 22 09:14:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I finally got around to reassembling the MicroVAX II (BA123) Wednesday. It had been completely dismantled since just before the 'dumpster incident', so I was certainly ready for it to go back together. Talk about nasty though...I dunno what that dust inside it was made of, but it was a really sticky, brown dust that was very difficult to remove. I initially figured it might take 3-4 hours to clean and reassemble the system, but ended up spending roughly 14 hours on it. I still need to do the cosmetic cleaning too... It seems to power up ok. I was a little worried about one of the two main power supply sections, as it was a little under-voltage at first, but once I put a substantial load on it, it held steady at a normal voltage level. Once I get my scope probes, I'll see what the output looks like too. Everything except the 3 hard drives and the TK50 appear to be original to the system. The TK50 was changed out 1990, and was tested as good in 1993. Out of the the 3 RD53 drives one sounds quite happy, one sounds "ok", and the other sounds like it is quite sick. Two of those drives have been serviced in the past, and the dates on them point to 1992 or so. The original CPU bulkhead/console board needs some repair work before I can reinstall it. The NiCad battery pack on the back of the board leaked, and corroded up part of the board and metal frame. It does appear to be 100% repairable though. Of course, I'll have to replace the battery pack. For now, I installed a spare CPU bulkhead that I have that came with a KA650. The RX50 drive also needs some repair work. The system was handled very roughly before I got it (during transport from the system's original location), and they managed to damage a number of minor things, including the RX50. One of the disk shutters is broken off, though I have it stored someplace. I'd like to find another nonfunctional or damaged RX50 to use as a parts donor. Failing that, I'll try my hand at repairing the broken plastic bits, but that won't be an easy task, since the breaks are at the pivot points. I think just the disk clamp part is broken, but I won't know for sure till I find where I put the shutter. I had been thinking the system was made in 1983, but I had it confused with the SGI IRIS 1400. This VAX was made in 1986, and is in pretty good condition all things considered. I believe it was last in service in 1996. At one point yesterday, after I installed the replacement bulkhead, I could get the system to go though its diagnostics and end at '3' on the numerical readout, which was the expected behavior. Later that evening, I tried powering it up again, at which point it hung at '9', and wouldn't progress any further. I went ahead and made up a console cable with the pinout found at [http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/panels.htm] but the system still hangs at '9'. Anyone know what might be happening? Of course, I double checked the power supply voltages, which were ok, as well as reseated boards/connectors, but still no go. I'm also still looking for some parts for the system if anyone happens to have some of this stuff and wants to pass it on to a good home. One of the drive status/control panel bulkheads for the operator's panel is missing, so I'd like to replace that. The door that covers the operator's panel is also gone, which was likely knocked off when the system was transported before I got it. I'd also like to find a pair of M7609 memory boards for the KA630. Right now it has a 4MB card fitted, but I think it might be a happier VAX with a little more memory. The fan for the card cage also needs to be replaced. It looks to be original, and its bearings are *very* worn. Surprisingly, the fan still works :) -Toth From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Nov 22 09:25:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDE4BAA.B5B8771@comcast.net> gil smith wrote: > > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil Howe about the Gateway Handbook? Neat little DOS 5 machine, maxes out a 3MB RAM, external floppy... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Nov 22 09:29:01 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: fall cleaning Message-ID: <3DDE4D97.2090306@arrl.net> Been doing my annual cleanout, need to find new homes for these items. Preference to local pickup (Houston), will consider shipping remaining items (u pay ship). Thanks. -nick free stuff: -IBM RS6000-C10, working -MAC Performa 450, working -DEQNA (M7504) w/cabkit, qbus ethernet -KDA50 (M7164, M7165), qbus sdi disk control -Cabletron m800 multiport xcvr docs: -MSV11-M (m7506) User Guide -DEC LA36 engineering drawings -(DEC)Documation M200 card reader tech manual -IBM 29 Card Punch Reference manual -HP 1615 Logic Analyzer service manual -DF03 modem user guide -DR11-B/DA11-B manual -DSD 4120 user guide -UDA50 user guide -UDA50 tech summary -VT330/340 prog ref (Vol 1 & Vol 2) For Sale: VS4000/model 60 & matching SZ16c storage expansion .. $30 +manual +lk401 +mouse(puck) +cables From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Nov 22 09:49:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <00a001c2923e$d7719cd0$1050ef42@oemcomputer> I like the DG one's and early HP's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gil smith" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 2:28 AM Subject: early pc with lcd screen > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Nov 22 10:49:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDE5F44.3080107@gifford.co.uk> gil smith wrote: > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. I remember one from about 1986, called the Tava Flyer. LCD, twin 5 1/4" floppy disks and the really unusual feature, an 80186 CPU. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 22 11:00:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: Hmm, I have an NMOS PACE.. does that count as odd? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Nov 22 11:12:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Recent VAX Adventures (Long) Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C64D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Eric? Did you get my prev. message? -f From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Nov 22 11:36:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: Message-ID: <3DDE6B16.90803@jetnet.ab.ca> Will Jennings wrote: > Hmm, I have an NMOS PACE.. does that count as odd? > > Will J Somebody has got that chip! Do you have the instruction set and other information online? It seems a lot of chips never sell to the hobbyist/homebrewer and this was one of them. Ben. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 22 11:48:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE6B16.90803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DDE7C83.17894.2F9C40EE@localhost> > > Hmm, I have an NMOS PACE.. does that count as odd? > Somebody has got that chip! Do you have the instruction > set and other information online? It seems a lot of chips > never sell to the hobbyist/homebrewer and this was one of them. I think I have a set of manuals ... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 11:50:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3DDDEE2E.6080604@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > gil smith wrote: > > Hi folks: > > > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > > > Anyone have any favorites? How about the Sharp PC-5000? It has an 8x80 line LCD display in a clamshell portable design. It uses bubble memory carthridges as its main storage. http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/pc5000/ Here's a review in the January 1984 issue of Creative Computing. The predictions didn't pan out: http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n1/55_The_Sharp_PC5000_a_desk.php I have one for sale. If interested, e-mail me ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 11:58:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > A lot of natural born Americans take way too much for granted and expect > the government to save them from their own stupidity. Regards - Mike Who saves the government from its own stupidity? More over, who saves the people from government stupidity? Not the law, because that has now been turned against us. You're short-sighted and missing the point, Mike. I don't take my freedoms for granted, I relish them. So when they are taken away, as is slowly happening, I get upset. You seem to be of the mentality that thinks addressing the symptom will cure the problem. This obviously hasn't worked before. Why should the recent legislation be any different? I'll tell you right now, the terrorists won. Enjoy the downward spiral ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Nov 22 12:19:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: <3DDE3389.11332.2E7F2D12@localhost> Message-ID: <3DDE751E.2010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans Franke wrote: >>I guess with Big Brother Intel the best processor designs >>like the 6809 and the PDP-11 are the odd ones. > > > Hmm... I have a hard time to agree here. The 8086/7/9 is > to me one of the best CPU designs ever - at least for a > true 16 Bit machine. I true atempt to brng the good parts > of mainframe design to microprocessors. The problem is that 8086 is not a clean 16 bit processer but rather a 8 bit load/store architecture ( 8008/8080) with 16 bit and CISC instructions tacked on. The 8008/8086 was ment to be one family of chips, with real 16/32 bit processing by another family of chips that totaly bombed. > Ok, if we just look at the CPU, then the 9900 will catch > the title for beeing a true 16 Bit design The other thing people forget is 8 bit bytes really screwed up computer architecture. Where a 16 old bit machine like say the IBM-1130 could have effective accumulator/memory architecture the loss of 1 bit of addressing and opcode length because of bytes and indexing neededs to scaled requires now a register/register architecture like the PDP-11. In hindsight we now know that 16 bits is too small a addressing range for a general purpose byte/word cpu's and only expanding to split code/data and other memory management tricks could one have useful machine. Lets not forget video graphics too only took off with large addressing space too. Remember CGA !!! 16k of memory. > Gruss > H. Ben. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Nov 22 12:28:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada References: <200211220626.gAM6QGg29049@io.crash.com> <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <3DDE849A.7D0C3AF0@ccp.com> Mike Feher wrote: > A lot of natural born Americans take way too much for granted and expect the > government to save them from their own stupidity. Regards - Mike And that is why things are the way they are, right now. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Nov 22 12:59:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: IBM Microchannel SVGA card Message-ID: I've got an MCA SVGA-NI Display Adaptor/A sitting here that I'd like to find display drivers for some OS. Does anyone know where I can find some? I've found the ADF files, but no drivers for any version of Winderz, or OS/2 (or XFree86 on linux, but I'm doubtful I'll find anything to work there). It's FRU number is 71G4877. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 22 13:01:47 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> References: <200211220626.gAM6QGg29049@io.crash.com> <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <2143.4.20.168.135.1037991663.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike Feher wrote: > Well if you miss your Civil Liberties so much move to Iraq. Or, for that > matter just move anywhere outside of the USA, and enjoy your civil > liberties there. You make a valid point that we still have better civil liberties in the US than most other countries. However, that does NOT mean that we should be complacent about it and happily allow Congress and the administration to eliminate or circumvent some of those rights whenever they happen to find it expedient. For instance, it would be hard to claim that the PATRIOT Act last year or the recent Homeland Security Act don't reduce our civil liberties. The questions to ask are whether the reductions are justified, whether they are constitutional, and whether they will actually solve the problems they are supposed to. Any time you give the government more power in order to make part of its job easier, that power also gets used in other ways, some of which may be undesirable. I get the impression that you're somehow mistakenly interpreting complaints about the recent decline in civil liberties with an assertion (which I don't think anyone has made in this discussion) that other countries are better. Looking at legislative trends with a critical eye and pushing for better protection of civil liberties is a GOOD thing. If we don't keep an eye on what Congress is doing, and use the courts to ensure that they keep our civil liberties intact, we will eventually find that we no longer have them. Anyhow, since this is so far off-topic, I won't post any further messages on this thread. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 22 13:09:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:04 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE6B16.90803@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3DDE6B16.90803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4702.4.20.168.135.1037992241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> ben franchuk wrote: > It seems a lot of chips > never sell to the hobbyist/homebrewer and this was one of them. Not really. At least one hobbyist/homebrewer I know did in fact buy a PACE and build a system. Also Godbout advertised PACE-based stuff, though I don't know how many they sold. I'll be really impressed (but not completely surprised) if a hobbyist somewhere built a system using National's earlier IMP-16 chipset. From at258 at osfn.org Fri Nov 22 13:25:00 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Damn, that was supposed to private. Sorry. On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Hey, we've added a Dragon 32! > > Also, we now have a 1973 Univac 80 and a 1978 NCR T-8255. > > In about 10 days, we're going after a rare Wang VS-90 system outside of > Wilmington, Delaware. > > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > Anyone got any memories or info on an early to mid 70s ICL mainframe that > > required a big keyboard known as the 7181/9? I've got one and I'm sure it > > was used on the 2900 mainframes and maybe earlier - big desk console types > > with built-in monitor but free standing keyboard...... > > > > Any info appreciated. > > > > cheers > > > > -- > > adrian/witchy > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Nov 22 13:29:00 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: fall cleaning In-Reply-To: <3DDE4D97.2090306@arrl.net> References: <3DDE4D97.2090306@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3DDE85D0.2070406@arrl.net> Thanks for all the replies, all gone. -nick no wrote: > Been doing my annual cleanout, need to find new homes > for these items. Preference to local pickup (Houston), > will consider shipping remaining items (u pay ship). > Thanks. > > -nick > > > free stuff: > > -IBM RS6000-C10, working > -MAC Performa 450, working > -DEQNA (M7504) w/cabkit, qbus ethernet > -KDA50 (M7164, M7165), qbus sdi disk control > -Cabletron m800 multiport xcvr > > > > docs: > > -MSV11-M (m7506) User Guide > -DEC LA36 engineering drawings > -(DEC)Documation M200 card reader tech manual > -IBM 29 Card Punch Reference manual > -HP 1615 Logic Analyzer service manual > -DF03 modem user guide > -DR11-B/DA11-B manual > -DSD 4120 user guide > -UDA50 user guide > -UDA50 tech summary > -VT330/340 prog ref (Vol 1 & Vol 2) > > For Sale: > > VS4000/model 60 & matching SZ16c storage expansion .. $30 > +manual +lk401 +mouse(puck) +cables > > > > > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Nov 22 13:41:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:08:23 +1100." <4.3.2.7.2.20021123000555.023ae960@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <200211221859.SAA22215@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Huw Davies said: > At 01:28 AM 22/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi folks: > > > >I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > >dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > > >Anyone have any favorites? > > Well I own a Panasonic DOS laptop. It's got a NEC V20 CPU, 640K memory and > DOS 3.3 in ROM. I purchased it new in either 1988 or 1989 basically to use > as a terminal to dial in to work. Still got it sitting around here > somewhere in a cupboard. The floppy drive appears to be dead (along with > the battery) but replacing the floppy would make for a nice portable > terminal for the VAXstation I plan to take on holidays this year. I have a SunRace laptop, also V20, from the same time frame. It still works but the floppy and serial ports have died so I can't get stuff in or out. I bought it (new) because with no backlight and running off nice big D-Cell nicads I could get a full days work out of it - something I've never been able to do with any other laptop. Currently using an old IBM Thinkpad 560 (100MHz Pentium) which works very nicely running Linux... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 22 13:43:02 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: Hah, I wish I had much info on it.. I pulled it from, of all things, an old automotive test system... I think the part number is INS8900.. that sounds right... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Nov 22 13:50:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the > early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. Well... it's not a clamshell design, but someone recently brought to my attention a small ruggedized PC named the Husky Hunter which runs on MS-DOS. There were serveral models made, but the Husky Hunter 16 was the one pointed out to me: Specs: http://www.infocon.dk/husky/products/h16spec-uk.htm Image: http://www.handheldsystems.com/Handhelds/Used_handhelds/h16.jpg I always thought the Tandy 1400LT looked pretty interesting. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 14:29:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE7C83.17894.2F9C40EE@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > > Hmm, I have an NMOS PACE.. does that count as odd? > > > Somebody has got that chip! Do you have the instruction > > set and other information online? It seems a lot of chips > > never sell to the hobbyist/homebrewer and this was one of them. > > I think I have a set of manuals ... I think I have a whole development system. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 14:37:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE751E.2010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > In hindsight we now know that 16 bits is too small a > addressing range for a general purpose byte/word cpu's > and only expanding to split code/data and other memory > management tricks could one have useful machine. Lets > not forget video graphics too only took off with large > addressing space too. Remember CGA !!! 16k of memory. In hindsight behind your hindsight, it was very difficult to fit anything more than 8 bits into a single-chip CPU in the early- to mid-70s when most 8-bit microprocessors were being designed. You have to remember there was a progression of the state of the art to 16-bits, then to 32, etc. ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 14:44:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <4702.4.20.168.135.1037992241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > ben franchuk wrote: > > It seems a lot of chips > > never sell to the hobbyist/homebrewer and this was one of them. > > Not really. At least one hobbyist/homebrewer I know did in fact > buy a PACE and build a system. Also Godbout advertised PACE-based > stuff, though I don't know how many they sold. > > I'll be really impressed (but not completely surprised) if a hobbyist > somewhere built a system using National's earlier IMP-16 chipset. I have some sort of IMP-16 development system as well I believe. Either that or at least the processor and some data books. I have a processor board that came out of some medical test equipment that a hobbyist hacked into a general purpose computer. I can't remember if it was based on the PACE or the IMP-16, but it was certainly one of them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 14:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the > > early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Well... it's not a clamshell design, but someone recently brought to my > attention a small ruggedized PC named the Husky Hunter which runs on > MS-DOS. There were serveral models made, but the Husky Hunter 16 was > the one pointed out to me: > > Specs: http://www.infocon.dk/husky/products/h16spec-uk.htm > Image: http://www.handheldsystems.com/Handhelds/Used_handhelds/h16.jpg This looks a lot like a Sharp OEM (the second picture in particular). Is this indeed made by Husky? > I always thought the Tandy 1400LT looked pretty interesting. It's not ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 22 14:49:01 2002 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Dean Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. Amstrad PPC 512 or 640, 512 or 640K RAM, NEC V30 8 Mhz Processor, Full size AT keyboard, Herc/CGA LCD screen, Twin 720K Floppy, Built In 2400bps modem, Run off 10 'ordinary' C batteries or Mains. Actually I think the PPC512 doesn't have the modem or the 2nd disc drive. Common as muck over here (UK). Bye, Deano From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Nov 22 15:27:25 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> Message-ID: <3DDEA0BF.30201@charter.net> I have a Tandy 1400LT, 768k ram (top 128k is always a ramdisk) 2 720k floppy drives internal 1200 baud modem CGA backlit lcd screen rechargable battery serial port NEC V-20 7.67mhz processor full size keyboard parallel port cga vidseo output external keyboard jack (din 5) external floppy port (D 37 connector)(not IBM pinout) It was furnished with a Tandy customized MS-DOS 3.2. The ramdisk was always the "C:" drive. I still have mine, but the NiCad battery is wasted. Dean Calver wrote: > >I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > >dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > From donm at cts.com Fri Nov 22 15:29:29 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil Not sure about it as a favorite, but I have not seen any mention of the Morrow Pivot (aka Zenith 171) so far. - don > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 22 15:38:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> Message-ID: <00dd01c2926f$b2a86240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > Amstrad PPC 512 or 640, > 512 or 640K RAM, > NEC V30 8 Mhz Processor, > Full size AT keyboard, > Herc/CGA LCD screen, > Twin 720K Floppy, > Built In 2400bps modem, > Run off 10 'ordinary' C batteries or Mains. Oh, *those* things. I've used a PPC640 that belonged to a friend. I've been trying to track one down for what seems like an age... > Actually I think the PPC512 doesn't have the modem or the 2nd disc drive. The PPC640 does, though. I can confirm that. > Common as muck over here (UK). Not in Yorkshire. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 22 15:40:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Classic computer exhibition, Grenoble France Message-ID: <3DDEA479.2010604@aconit.org> Today I spent the day setting up our little 100 square meter exhibition tracing 50 years of computing in Grenoble, France. For anyone in the area from tomorrow til December 2 the exhibition will be open from 10:00 till 18:30 each day except Tuesday at the Grenoble Museum, Place Lavalette (Tram B , Notre Dame stop) Among the classic machine on exhibit are a Bull Gamma 3, the panel from an IBM 360/67, a (working) 1130, a (working) PDP-8/m, a Telemechanique 1600, a Micral N, a Thomson MO5, a Goupil 2. Hopefully we can get pictures on the web over the next week for those unable to attend. -- hbp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 22 15:43:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> <00a001c2923e$d7719cd0$1050ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00e901c29270$6da02740$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Keys wrote: > I like the DG one's and early HP's. I like the Hewlett-Packard DOS palmtops - the 100LX, 200LX and OmniGo 700LX. They're not strictly ontopic, though. My 700LX hails from 1996. And I've got the Nokia 2110 that goes with it (complete with cracked display cover - grr...). And it's not for sale, before you ask. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 15:51:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > Not sure about it as a favorite, but I have not seen any mention of the > Morrow Pivot (aka Zenith 171) so far. It was more of a "portable" (albeit clamshell-ish). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 22 15:53:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Classic computer exhibition, Grenoble France In-Reply-To: <3DDEA479.2010604@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Among the classic machine on exhibit are a Bull Gamma 3, the panel from > an IBM 360/67, a (working) 1130, a (working) PDP-8/m, a Telemechanique > 1600, a Micral N, a Thomson MO5, a Goupil 2. > > Hopefully we can get pictures on the web over the next week for those > unable to attend. I'm definitely interested in seeing pictures of the Micral. Where did you folks come across yours? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Nov 22 16:09:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: IBM Microchannel SVGA card Message-ID: In a message dated 11/22/2002 2:04:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, pat@purdueriots.com writes: << I've got an MCA SVGA-NI Display Adaptor/A sitting here that I'd like to find display drivers for some OS. Does anyone know where I can find some? I've found the ADF files, but no drivers for any version of Winderz, or OS/2 (or XFree86 on linux, but I'm doubtful I'll find anything to work there). It's FRU number is 71G4877. >> That's a plain old server display card, most likely from a 9595 type. Best you can get is VGA in OS/2. Fairly useless, get XGA-2 instead. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Nov 22 16:40:01 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <3DDEB28C.80201@arrl.net> gil smith wrote: > Hi folks: > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the early > dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > Anyone have any favorites? > > gil > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > I recently sold an HP portable 486, vintage about 1991. This was pretty big for a portable, and a special purpose machine. I think it could have booted DOS though i never tried it. Still have the pics up for it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11175&item=2070157175&rd=1 -nick From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 22 17:18:01 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Classic computer exhibition, Grenoble France References: Message-ID: <3DDEBB89.5060400@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm definitely interested in seeing pictures of the Micral. I'll be sure and take some. > Where did you folks come across yours? Unfortunately it's not ours, it belongs to the FEB (Federation des Equipes Bull) an association of ex Bull employees who have collected and preserved one of almost all machines ever constructed by Bull or its associated companies. -- hbp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 22 18:37:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Newbie enquiries In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080AEA@email1.parl.net> from "Kane, David" at Nov 22, 2 01:10:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021122/3d0c7e38/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 22 18:48:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Bringing an 11/750 power supply back to life In-Reply-To: <20021122024523.5D86E42C34@smtp-relay.omnis.com> from "Alan Perry" at Nov 21, 2 06:45:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1299 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021122/ce1d43e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 22 19:15:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> from "Dean Calver" at Nov 22, 2 08:49:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021122/0f0a14ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 22 19:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <00e901c29270$6da02740$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 22, 2 09:45:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 897 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021122/3f3ed326/attachment.ksh From gfrajkor at ccs.carleton.ca Fri Nov 22 19:38:01 2002 From: gfrajkor at ccs.carleton.ca (Jan George Frajkor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Old computers References: <20021122180001.18293.32946.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3DDEDD4D.5EBF821E@ccs.carleton.ca> Does anyone have an address and some contacts at the computer museum that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together? There was an article about it in the New Scientist Magazine. Here's the reason: some time ago a museum allegedly building in Colorado approached me about taking away some old machines I have... I promised them, but nothing every came of it and the storage bills are killing me now that I am retired. I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a wholesale basis rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have: Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are, of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" rack. Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s were working when retired. Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives. Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when last used. Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital conversion attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired. No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above. Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software. A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives. Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way to transport the stuff but since some of it seems rare now and the Ames Research centre seems intent on collecting stuff, they might be willing to pay for a truck from here. I would appreciate advice. ahoj -- ------ Jan George Frajkor _!_ 221 Arlington Ave. --!-- Ottawa, Ontario | Canada K1R 5S8 /^\ aa003@ncf.ca /^\ /^\ gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca h: 613 563-4534 fax: 613 520-6690 From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 22 20:20:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: <3DDEDD4D.5EBF821E@ccs.carleton.ca> References: <20021122180001.18293.32946.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <3DDEDD4D.5EBF821E@ccs.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <4430.4.20.168.135.1038018108.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone have an address and some contacts at the computer > museum > that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together? What you're thinking of is the Computer History Museum, http://www.computerhistory.org/ NASA Ames isn't putting it together. They've just made space availble (which is darned nice of them). They also just bought a new building at 1401 Shoreline Blvd. in Mountain View, which will be their main headquarters and exhibit facility. > Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are, > of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" > rack. > Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in "Washing machine" drives would be RP06, or other RP0x or RM0x drives. RK06 drives are rackmount drives that take cartridges. They're more like the RL02 than a washing machine. > Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way to transport the > stuff but since some of it seems rare now I doubt that they're going to want to pay to ship PDP-11s from Ottawa; PDP-11s aren't at all rare and they already have quite a few. But it's worth asking. Eric From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Nov 22 20:51:00 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: <3DDEDD4D.5EBF821E@ccs.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <000001c2929b$63c18bd0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Mr. Frajkor, The Computer History Museum is currently located on the NASA/Ames site but they are basically in mothballs at the moment (they call the "museum" visible storage.) They've got some new space that they are setting up near the NASA/Ames facility that's "off base." I work about a mile from both the old and the new facilities in Mountain View. I honestly doubt that they are going to be interested in your specific gear due to their limited budget (they just bought a large chunk of California real estate) and the fact that the gear isn't all that uncommon. You can visit the CHM home page at http://www.computerhistory.org/ for some more info and contact information. If you are unable to convince them to take your gear I might be interested in some of the items. Best of luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jan George Frajkor Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:44 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old computers Does anyone have an address and some contacts at the computer museum that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together? There was an article about it in the New Scientist Magazine. Here's the reason: some time ago a museum allegedly building in Colorado approached me about taking away some old machines I have... I promised them, but nothing every came of it and the storage bills are killing me now that I am retired. I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a wholesale basis rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have: Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are, of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" rack. Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s were working when retired. Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives. Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when last used. Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital conversion attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired. No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above. Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software. A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives. Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way to transport the stuff but since some of it seems rare now and the Ames Research centre seems intent on collecting stuff, they might be willing to pay for a truck from here. I would appreciate advice. ahoj -- ------ Jan George Frajkor _!_ 221 Arlington Ave. --!-- Ottawa, Ontario | Canada K1R 5S8 /^\ aa003@ncf.ca /^\ /^\ gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca h: 613 563-4534 fax: 613 520-6690 From vaxman at earthlink.net Fri Nov 22 21:01:00 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT: WebTV keyboard Message-ID: As most of you don't know, I work for Cirrus Logic, developing channels and controllers for DVD drives. I am currently working on some test software to run on a DVD player (developed by a group in Fremont and Fort Wayne), and I want to hook a keyboard to it. After much pondering, it seems the IR interface might be configured to talk to an IR keyboard, and the only 'standard' keyboard seems to be the WebTV keyboard. Does anyone have information on this keyboard? It seems like the RCA model is being dumped by Circuit City, but It doesn't appear MS is closing down the service... Any hardware info on the keyboard would be appreciated! Thanks, Clint From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Nov 22 21:34:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE751E.2010803@jetnet.ab.ca> from ben franchuk at "Nov 22, 2 11:19:10 am" Message-ID: <200211230344.TAA10950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In hindsight we now know that 16 bits is too small a > addressing range for a general purpose byte/word cpu's I can't believe someone actually said this on *this* list. I think I'll go throw out all my 6502-based systems since they're so pointless for general purpose computing. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Arguments with furniture are rarely productive. -- Kehlog Albran ----------- From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Nov 22 22:35:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Problem with Nat Semi ICM-3216 Message-ID: <200211230436.gAN4Zog00605@io.crash.com> I recently picked up a couple of ICM-3216s and am hoping the following might make sense to someone more familiar with them. There are two systems comprised of a CPU board, one 4MB memory board, and an ICM-SIO-M-08 board with its own 32016, 32201, and four 2681 DUARTs for 8 serial ports. The SIO board in front of me is a 980600014-001 Rev D (the 001 and D are hand written) The EPROMs in U5 and U6 show Rev B on their labels, and I can give the full P/N if it will help. When retired from service several-many years ago, these machines were timesharing hosts and used all these serial ports. Now when I try to power up either system with the SIO board in the stack, the system won't initialize. If I remove the SIO from the stack the system will initialize and I can boot Unix on one box, or talk to the monitor on the other (disk won't spin). Does this make sense to anyone familiar with these systems? I suspect someone else has seen this, given the way it's impacting both systems... I suppose I'll start checking out the third box, which lacks an SIO, and see what it does with it. Thanks for any thoughts, or even unrelated reminisences about the ICMs or the 32k in general. --Steve. Steve Jones spamfree.crash.com!smj Arlington, Mass. CRASH!! Computing (any spambots parse bang paths?) +1 781 xxx yyyy "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers Guide From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Nov 22 22:42:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia References: <200211230344.TAA10950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3DDF06FF.3060308@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>In hindsight we now know that 16 bits is too small a >>addressing range for a general purpose byte/word cpu's > > > I can't believe someone actually said this on *this* list. I think I'll go > throw out all my 6502-based systems since they're so pointless for general > purpose computing. I did not say General purpose computing can't be done, just that it is a very small amount of memory for most user programs. It is really hard work to have a useful programs written on the small 8 bit machines, and fit in 32k or 48k of memory incuding the OS. PS use 6809's rather than 6502's. :) From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Nov 22 23:18:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Not the resistor, but I bet that darn tantalum capacitor could. I still >suspect that. You were probably right all along. I found someone at work who deals with SMD devices on a regular basis. He has a small-nozzle heat gun, and agreed (next week, when he has some time) to try to pull and replace the cap. for me. After his and Toth's warnings about my current soldering iron (and your own recommendation on what would be better to use), I think I may wait for him and watch over his shoulder when it happens. >[1} Remove all the solder you can with a hot iron and braid. Then melt >the remaining solder on one end and _carefully_ lift that end of the >component a fraction -- don't damage the pad on the other end of the >component. Then do the same at the other end. Repeat until it comes free. I'll save this advice in case I get very impatient, though. >Hmmm. Maybe the value is printed on the bottom side of the cap for some >strange reason.... Anyway, it's probably not that critical -- see above. It'd be true for *all* of the caps on that board. I'll see and report when that cap. comes off, but I don't see why the square cross-section ones would be that way. >If those values are correct, then you'd expect 5*61900/(11500+61900) >volts on the tap. Or around 4.2V. That's what you're getting when the >machine works, isn't it? So the values might will be right. That's what I see. But with components of resistance same order as my voltmeter, I'm surprised to see that with any accuracy. >Oh, try something between 1uF and 10uF to start with. OK, will do. I may even ask friend at work to pull one of the other caps and test it on a bridge, just so I know what the proper value is. - Mark From cb at mythtech.net Fri Nov 22 23:39:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT: WebTV keyboard Message-ID: >Does anyone have information on this keyboard? It seems like the RCA >model is being dumped by Circuit City, but It doesn't appear MS is >closing down the service... Any hardware info on the keyboard would >be appreciated! I have one of these... came from a Sony branded WebTV unit I got at a garage sale. I use the keyboard with my DishNetwork satallite decoder (their Dish Player 7000 model... their original PVR model... it has a webTV unit built in along with the ability to pause and record TV... and no, I don't use the webTV features... I wanted the keyboard to make my life easier in spelling out TV shows I was searching for, so when I saw a webTV for sale for $5 I grabbed it). Since I think my decoder is made by JVC, that should tell you that at least all the webTV keyboards are cross compatible and not manufacturer or model specific. Beyond that tiny tidbit of info, I can't help much more until monday. I don't have a little screwdriver at home right now that can open it up to see if there is any better info inside. -chris From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 22 23:51:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DDEC3E3.17255.59260A5@localhost> It and it's specs looks similiar to the Sharp PC 3xxx but the 3k was a clamshell design. Except for a larger screen it's design is also similar to the Sharp PC1500. Some nice machines tho. I want one. Lawrence > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, gil smith wrote: > > > > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the > > > early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > > > Well... it's not a clamshell design, but someone recently brought to > > my attention a small ruggedized PC named the Husky Hunter which runs > > on MS-DOS. There were serveral models made, but the Husky Hunter 16 > > was the one pointed out to me: > > > > Specs: http://www.infocon.dk/husky/products/h16spec-uk.htm > > Image: > > http://www.handheldsystems.com/Handhelds/Used_handhelds/h16.jpg > > This looks a lot like a Sharp OEM (the second picture in particular). > Is this indeed made by Husky? > > > I always thought the Tandy 1400LT looked pretty interesting. > > It's not ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 22 23:52:53 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <006501c29203$e0b4fcf0$0b00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3DDEC3E4.18971.5926136@localhost> And of course the Atari Portfolio. My 2 current faves are a Sharp PC3000 and a Grid 1520 (a 286) with red plasma display and the famous Rugged Grid magnesium case. I have a nonworking NEC Multispeed and a working NEC Prospeed.(too large, too heavy) Lawrence > I loved the Tandy Model 100 and 200, NEC had a nice laptop early on, the > Toshiba 3100 with its Orange Plasma screen rocked!!! > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gil smith" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 3:28 AM > Subject: early pc with lcd screen > > > > Hi folks: > > > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the > > early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > > > Anyone have any favorites? > > > > gil > > > > > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > > ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 > > ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) > > ;----------------------------------------------------------- > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 22 23:54:42 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <01f701c291ed$50a284e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DDEC3E3.22483.59260D2@localhost> Try looking up what the phrase " in reference to" means. And tell me what +AD4- and +ACI- means. It's unclear. Lawrence > +AD4- the press misunderstood the Canadian official... > +AD4- saying +ACI-What a moron+ACI- in reference to George Dubya. > > +AD4- In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval > +AD4- meaning +ACI-more on top of it+ACI-, hipper. I'm sure that's what > +he AD4- meant. > > Unclear. > Is the Canadian Official saying that He himself is a moron, > so that George Bush is hip by association? Explain. > > John A. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 22 23:56:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <000e01c2922e$62754a40$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: <3DDEC3E3.23252.5926104@localhost> > > Well if you miss your Civil Liberties so much move to Iraq. Or, for that > matter just move anywhere outside of the USA, and enjoy your civil > liberties there. I certainly do not feel like I am missing any of mine > since they are still there. Having have grown up under Communism, I am > too familiar with the lack of those liberties. Or not familiar enough with the meaning of it. > If I can avoid it, I will > never set foot in another country outside of the USA, again. Thank you. We've got enough similiar types in Alberta. They really want to be Texans. >Just the > fact that you are able to say such a moronic (and I mean it literally) > statement proves that you are indeed in the best country there is. Unless you're poor, black, hispanic, and now a new category, Muslim. And not acording to the UN ranking of quality of life. Sweden is #1 and IIRC the US is #13. Canada is ranked #3 but we're trying. But of course the UN is all made up of "commie" (not the C64 kind) bastxxxs anyways. > In my opinion, President Bush is doing exceptionally well, in spite of the > bureaucratic BS that has been allowed to develop here by people with > your views and that of the ACLU. A lot of natural born Americans take > way too much for granted and expect the government to save them from > their own stupidity. Regards - Mike This might have started with people like Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and Tom Payne. And then slackers like Abe Lincoln, FDR, and Thurgood Marshal. Despite the best efforts of those great Americans like Henry Ford (who admired Hitler) , Senator Joseph McCarthy and Jim Bakker who supported the true way. Mind you many immigrants such as Albert Einstein also undermined those virtues you hold dear. But perhaps I'm mistaken you might be as moronic (Can. slang) as Dubya. Lawrence > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > 89 Arnold Blvd. > Howell NJ, 07731 > (732) 901-9193 > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Nov 22 23:58:21 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <3DDDEE2E.6080604@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3DDEC3E4.9352.5926163@localhost> That would be the 170 likely. They come up ocasionally on EPay. I have it's immediate predecessor, the luggable ZFA 161. Heavier than hades but a neat machine. Lawrence > gil smith wrote: > > Hi folks: > > > > I am curious about early PCs with lcd screens. Something from the > > early dos days, in a flip-up or clamshell design. > > > > Anyone have any favorites? > > > > gil > > > You mean an early laptop? I had a Zenith Z100 or Z180, or Z > something..... I think. Honestly, I don't know what it was called :-) I > think it was from about 86, and was an 8088. It was a nice little > computer. It wan't all that big. It was truly a laptop, not a > luggable. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 23 00:20:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Old computers Message-ID: *snip* > Here's the reason: some time ago a museum allegedly building in >Colorado approached me about taking away some old machines I have... I >promised them, but nothing every came of it and the storage bills are >killing me now that I am retired. *snip* I just want to take the time to make it clear that I am NOT, repeat, NOT the person in Colorado with the museum building that he is speaking of... I'd be willing to be that I know the person who doesn't have their act together who is, though... Will J (including prior text to appease Sellam) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Nov 23 00:53:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! In-Reply-To: <201102324.46414@webbox.com> Message-ID: On 20 Nov 2002, r.stek wrote: > I just picked up a manual for Michael Shrayer's Electric Pencil > - the first WP I had on my Sol-20. But this manual is for the > IBM PC version! I don't recall reading about this at all. Has > anyone else come across this, and does anyone actually have a > copy of the program? I'd love to be able to run it. Shrayer originally wrote Electric Pencil before CP/M had become the standard. I remember ads for it that also offered a utility program to transfer files back and forth between "Electric Pencil disks" and CP/M. Later, he did a version for TRS-80, that became quite popular, even though it required adding a control key to the keyboard. Later (around 1988 - 1992?), he cut a deal with Harv (H.C.) Pennington ("TRS-80 Disk and other mysteries") to distribute a PC version. I had a case of them, but I may have finally sold the last one at VCF. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 23 02:10:00 2002 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Dean Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen References: <3.0.32.20021122012836.008bd9f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> <00dd01c2926f$b2a86240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <022101c292c7$fb11a520$2000a8c0@thunderbird> > > Common as muck over here (UK). > Not in Yorkshire. Seem to be fairly common in the Cambridge area, my current one (PPC640 with a slightly damaged handle) cost me a whole ?2. I've seen about 5 in the last year haven't picked them up as I don't need any more terminals at the moment (which is what I use mine for, its sits on my linux firewall closed up when SSH doesn't work I just unfold it, plug it in and load the terminal software). Bye, Deano From jss at subatomix.com Sat Nov 23 07:18:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Colorado Computer Museum (was: Old computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <188118383666.20021123071931@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, Will Jennings wrote: > > some time ago a museum allegedly building in Colorado approached me > > about taking away some old machines I have... > > I just want to take the time to make it clear that I am NOT, repeat, NOT > the person in Colorado with the museum building that he is speaking of... I believe that the person you seek is: David Charles President Colorado Computer Museum http://www.trailingedge.org/ I am storing a VAX-11/730 system for them on a I-can-play-with-it basis. The original agreement was that the museum would come pick it up after a while. However, I haven't heard from Mr. Charles in over a year. I don't know if his operation is still in operation, and the web site hasn't been updated since 1999. :-/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Nov 23 07:54:15 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So I wasn't TOO late then :) Did yours come with any detailed servicing docs? I've got the full $125 (whee) technical manual but no servicing manual other than level 3 which gets as far as if-the-lights-do-this-then-send-it-back-for-repair. I've resurrected 2, one of which was the prototype so I'm happy, but have 3 more dead ones. w > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: 21 November 2002 09:58 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: STM Pied Piper > > > On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > > > Sellam wanted pictures (nothing like being over 2 years late) so go to > > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk, hit 'inhabitants' and go to the STM section. > > Not any more, I picked one up earlier this year ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 07:57:32 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Index register pop quiz Message-ID: Wasn't there a discussion about index registers here a few weeks back? My friend Ray Borrill must have been looking over our shoulders because he put together this pop quiz: Q: 1. Who invented the Index Register and about when? 3. What was it originally called? 4. What computer first used one? A: 1. The British invented in in about 1957 or 58. 2. It was originally called the "B-Box" for "Bias Box". 3. I believe it was first used in the Ferranti Atlas computer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 08:00:44 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT: hard drive making weird noises Message-ID: Ok, I've googled but have not turned anything up, so I turn to the experts on the list. I have a 60GB IBM hard drive (can't get at the model number and don't want to power down to do so right now). Every once in a while I hear it make the most disconcerting noise. It sounds like a followed by a followed by another and then another , all in the span of no more than 2 seconds. It sounds as if its skipping a heartbeat or something. What the hell is going on and how do I defibrilate it? I had a similar problem long ago with another brand of hard drive (Maxtor maybe?) and it required some sort of firmware upgrade that fixed it. I checked into this problem a while ago but did not find anything on IBMs site or through Google. I do NOT need another hard drive crash right now :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 08:03:54 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Outright 9-track tape drive Message-ID: I have an Outright 9-track tape drive with an ISA adapter and manual but, alas, no software. The adapter is branded "Computer Logics NineTrack PCTD III". It has a DC-62 (is that correct?) connector. It's a 16-bit ISA card. Does anyone by any chance have the drivers for this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 08:08:00 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Outright 9-track tape drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I shoulda looked afore I leapt. It seems CHI Corporation (the folks who manufactured this drive) are still alive and kicking. I didn't realize the drive was made only 9 years ago circa 1993-1994). I'll try contacting them to see about getting the Outright software but still, if someone has it, that would be far easier and a copy would be greatly appreciated. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at neurotica.com Sat Nov 23 08:11:11 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: IBM Microchannel SVGA card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe it works with the generic SVGA driver under XFree. Not sure about Windows. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got an MCA SVGA-NI Display Adaptor/A sitting here that I'd like to > find display drivers for some OS. Does anyone know where I can find some? > I've found the ADF files, but no drivers for any version of Winderz, or > OS/2 (or XFree86 on linux, but I'm doubtful I'll find anything to work > there). > > It's FRU number is 71G4877. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > From fdebros at verizon.net Sat Nov 23 08:14:21 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:05 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <3DDD6F02.14864.5E9E3C@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c2928f$88194010$6501a8c0@fred> Its ok Instead of heading for Iraq, we should head for Quebec Casus belli: Canadian "Nyeculturny" Aim: North Battlecry: One Eagle for a Looney Outcome: Total Victory. History: Canada was the backwater country of the US until they let themselves be swallowed up by the culturally superior society of the US of A Fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker Sent: Friday, 22 November, 2002 00.41 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT Bush and Canada As a Canadian, I must explain to our US neighbors that the press misunderstood the Canadian official at the Prague meetings who was reported as saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval meaning "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he meant. And of course Dick Cheyny is also a veritable moron, (in Can. slang terms , of course). Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Sat Nov 23 08:17:32 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: <006d01c29268$988c70b0$2000a8c0@thunderbird> Message-ID: Speaking of old portables, anyone remember the large Toshiba almost-laptop with the full 101-key keyboard? I can't remember the name, but I'd love to get one, as I drooled over one for a while. Peace... Sridhar From farakhjamil at hotmail.com Sat Nov 23 08:20:41 2002 From: farakhjamil at hotmail.com (FJ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Classic != IBM AT Message-ID: Hi, someone named John is interested in an AT&T Safari laptop. I happen to have one. E-mail me at farakhjamil@hotmail.com if you are interested. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 11/20/02 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021123/e8638c4e/attachment.html From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Nov 23 08:31:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT440 repair manual or schematic set. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021123083224.01abcee0@ubanproductions.com> Hi, I am looking for engineering drawings and/or maintenance manual for a DEC VT440 terminal. A copy or scan would be fine. --tnx --tom From alanp at snowmoose.com Sat Nov 23 08:42:17 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Bringing an 11/750 power supply back to life Message-ID: <20021123144355.7BB6142C8B@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Someone else provided me with a PDF version of the H7104 Power System TD. I can send it to whoever wants to make it available. I was supposed to send the guy some of my extra manual for him to scan a couple years ago, but I got busy with work and forgot and haven't been able to contact the guy since. alan ---Original Message--- From: cctech@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:26:39 -0800 Subject: RE: Bringing an 11/750 power supply back to life >Before I got my VAX, it went down because the power supply went out. I have the print set and the >'Technical Description' document for the power supply and I am fairly comfortable dealing with this >stuff, but I am not an expert. The print sets are already on the web but is there any chance of scanning the PSU TD? Yours is the 3rd or 4th VAX-11/750 with potential PSU issues mentioned here in the last year or so. >If I attempt to repair the power supply myself, is there anything that I should avoid doing so I >don't kill myself? Keep away from the machine and you'll be safe :-) Seriously, think about each step you are taking, don't do anything unless you think you know what you are doing and why, keep one hand in a pocket or behind your back, and (most important I guess) make sure there is someone nearby who knows what you are up to and what to do if they find you writhing on the ground. If you post more details about the symptoms (which, if any, lights come on, what readings you have already taken etc) I expect you'll find this list full of useful advice. Antonio From alanp at snowmoose.com Sat Nov 23 08:49:17 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: That New Mexico 11/750 Message-ID: <20021123145025.0244742C8B@smtp-relay.omnis.com> I was looking through the archives and saw someone in New Mexico was bringing a 11/750 back up. Did he ever mention where it came from? I went to university at New Mexico Tech in Socorro and used an 11/750 there (and that is why I picked up my 11/750). Just wondering if his machine was nmtvax. alan P.S. Anyone know if the machine that was ucbvax is still around. I think it was 94 when it was converted to running the card key system for the Berkeley police department or something similar. I got the "RIP ucbvax" announcement somewhere around here. From hansp at aconit.org Sat Nov 23 08:56:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Index register pop quiz References: Message-ID: <3DDF9770.9040803@aconit.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > 1. Who invented the Index Register and about when? > 3. What was it originally called? > 4. What computer first used one? > A: > 1. The British invented in in about 1957 or 58. > 2. It was originally called the "B-Box" for "Bias Box". > 3. I believe it was first used in the Ferranti Atlas computer. A little earlier. The Manchesetr Baby machine first ran in 1948. It had no B-lines, but they were added before the final Mark I was specified to Ferranti for commercial production. Ferranti delivered the first Mark I to Manchester in Feb 1952 a few months ahead of the first Univac delivery in the US. B-lines, because the A-line was the Accumulator, the C-lines were control registers : the sequcnce control reister (PC) and the current instruction. see : http://www.computer50.org/mark1/FM1.html -- hbp From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Nov 23 08:59:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have a 60GB IBM hard drive (can't get at the model number and don't > want to power down to do so right now). > > Every once in a while I hear it make the most disconcerting noise. It > sounds like a followed by a followed by another > and then another , all in the span of no more than 2 seconds. > > It sounds as if its skipping a heartbeat or something. What the hell > is going on and how do I defibrilate it? That sounds like possibly a "thermal recalibration". But I didn't think that drives did that anymore. Bill From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Nov 23 09:07:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises References: Message-ID: <011401c29302$2932adc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I have a 60GB IBM hard drive (can't get at the model number and don't > want to power down to do so right now). Try googling for "IBM Deathstar" (that is NOT a typo). The Deskstars are notorious for poor reliability. > Every once in a while I hear it make the most disconcerting noise. It > sounds like a followed by a followed by another > and then another , all in the span of no more than > 2 seconds. IIRC, that's what they do when they start to fail. Get your data backed up ASAP. That thing'll be dead in two weeks tops. Got a CD or DVD recorder and a stack of blank, good quality (Verbatim DatalifePlus SuperAZO) media? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Nov 23 09:30:17 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: CMD Technology Unibus SCSI card In-Reply-To: <200211220207.gAM27j303927@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200211220207.gAM27j303927@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200211230731060509.9FBA9C84@192.168.42.129> Hi, people, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21-Nov-02 at 18:07 Zane H. Healy wrote: >Try > >ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/CMD720 > >I don't know about CMD boards, but with Viking boards, the ability to use >CD-ROMs depends on the revision of your ROMs. I'd also recommend initially >trying CD-ROM drives capable of 512-byte blocks. FWIW: I have a CMD CQ220 series in one of my MicroVAXen. I was able to bring its ROMs to the latest revision simply by asking CMD for the image files (gotta love that UniSite!) You may be able to do a similar thing with your board. If you can, and you lack the ability to program the chips, I can do so for a small fee (SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT!) http://www.bluefeathertech.com/devices.html Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Nov 23 09:43:00 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: OT: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211231044.46742.jcwren@jcwren.com> While it may not be necessary to know the model immediately, if you're running a Linux based OS, you can use 'hdparm -i /dev/hdx', where x is the drive letter. This will report the identification string stored in the drive. If you're running Windows, you can use Device Manager, expand the Disk Drives field, and look at the properties for the drive. Most all later versions of Windows (>= 95) support this in some form or another. On other *nixs, you can usally run dmesg and look somewhere near the start of the log, assuming that your system hasn't been up so long that it's scrolled off. OS/2 also supports examining the drive in some fashion, but I don't remember how to do it. If it's none of the above, I'm curious what OS you're running, simply because it's not THAT many that are capable of support 60GB IDE drives. --John On Thursday 21 November 2002 19:51, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Ok, I've googled but have not turned anything up, so I turn to the experts > on the list. > > I have a 60GB IBM hard drive (can't get at the model number and don't > want to power down to do so right now). > > Every once in a while I hear it make the most disconcerting noise. It > sounds like a followed by a followed by another > and then another , all in the span of no more than 2 seconds. > > It sounds as if its skipping a heartbeat or something. What the hell > is going on and how do I defibrilate it? I had a similar problem long ago > with another brand of hard drive (Maxtor maybe?) and it required some sort > of firmware upgrade that fixed it. I checked into this problem a while > ago but did not find anything on IBMs site or through Google. > > I do NOT need another hard drive crash right now :( From jim at jkearney.com Sat Nov 23 09:54:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises References: <011401c29302$2932adc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <004201c29308$bd024820$1001090a@xpace.net> > Try googling for "IBM Deathstar" (that is NOT a typo). The Deskstars are > notorious for poor reliability. Out of my 7 30GB and 60GB Deskstars, two died within 2 years. Luckily (?) IBM stands by its warranty and you only need go to their website and do an RMA to get replacements. Of course you have to send in the old one(s), so back up a.s.a.p.! From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Nov 23 10:49:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen Message-ID: Maybe a T5100 (16 MHz 386, plasma display, 1987) or a T5200 (20 MHz 386, 1988) ? http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5100/index.shtm http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5200/index.shtm >From: vance@neurotica.com >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: early pc with lcd screen >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:14:17 -0500 (EST) > > >Speaking of old portables, anyone remember the large Toshiba >almost-laptop with the full 101-key keyboard? I can't remember the name, >but I'd love to get one, as I drooled over one for a while. > >Peace... Sridhar _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From arlen at acm.org Sat Nov 23 11:02:00 2002 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: <3DDEDD4D.5EBF821E@ccs.carleton.ca> Message-ID: I would be happy to take all but the PDPs (not enough space here, alas) and I am just around the corner from you in Ottawa west. Also, I suspect Robert Krtek would be interested in the PDP; I can contact him for you. I could pick up the other things this weekend if you like. Regards, Arlen Michaels -- Arlen Michaels arlen@acm.org on 22/11/02 8:43 PM, Jan George Frajkor at gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca wrote: > I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a wholesale basis > rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have: > > Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are, > of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" rack. > > Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in > ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s were > working when retired. > > > Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives. > > > Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when > last used. > > Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital conversion > attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired. > > No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above. > > > Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit > business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software. > > A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Nov 23 12:08:01 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: OT: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well... my old Tosiba 420 did/does that once in a while, and it's six years old. My IBM Thinkpad is over a year old - every once in a while it goes 'ka-clunk' as if some solenoid (which of course there isn't) in the HD activated. It's disconcerting, but so far innocuous. That being said - I have a cute little PCMCIA - to - HD adapter and software (Simpletech DriveLink) that does a mirror-image copy from the internal HD to another one attached to the adapter. Then you can use the new one for backup, or replace the existing one. It took about 1.5 hours to transfer 6 actual gigs of Stuff from one 20G drive to another. It cost $89 plus whatever drive you buy. Its one of those things like drive de-fragmenting - set it working one evening before you go to bed and in the morning you'll have a new back-up drive. The other thing DriveLink is good for is if you have to get a large amount of data physically transferred from one machine to another - the external drive just shows up (in Windoze, anyway) as one of the mounted devices, so you can move Humongous Files back and forth as needed. Hope this helps... Cheers John From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Nov 23 13:11:01 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Adopt an old NASA software program Message-ID: <3DDFD2E4.AF437AE5@attbi.com> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 Michael Nadeau wrote: > Open Channel Software is making old NASA applications available for > download. There is a fee involved for what's called the NASA Classics > collection, and the goal is to encourage commercial development of the > applications. The list is at http://www.openchannelsoftware.com/NASA_1.html. > I have no connection with OCS or NASA, but just happened to come across a > press release about the offer. I had not seen Michael's previous posting on this subject, I just stumbled across this web page this morning. It appears they want volunteers to help develop this software. http://www.openchannelfoundation.org/cosmic/ -----------< quote >---------------- Open Channel Publishes the NASA COSMIC Collection Open Channel Software has entered into an agreement with the National Technology Transfer Center (NTTC) to publish the COSMIC software collection. This collection represents software created by NASA in a wide range of disciplines including engineering, chemistry, aerodynamics, and other areas. Adopt an application! Many of the COSMIC programs are available for "adoption". When you adopt an orphaned application at Open Channel, you agree to moderate user contributions to the application. You also take over the maintenance of the site for the application through our Content Management system. Your name will appear on the application home page. ------< end quote >---------------- The Moderator Responsibilities http://www.openchannelfoundation.org/contrib/mod_resp.php include: -----------< quote >---------------- * Helps Open Channel decide on means of distribution (free open source, licensed open source, etc.) * Makes current version of software and documentation available for download from site, and/or * Helps Open Channel define and price products offered for order on the site ------< end quote >---------------- So by adopting one of these programs you may be able to influence how this software is distributed. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 14:31:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDF06FF.3060308@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > I did not say General purpose computing can't be done, just that it is a > very small amount of memory for most user programs. It is really hard > work to have a useful programs written on the small 8 bit machines, and > fit in 32k or 48k of memory incuding the OS. I find it rather odd that such a comment would be made in the face of tens of thousands of applications software and games that were developed on dozens of 8-bit computer platforms having anywhere from 4K to 64K of main RAM where the operating system and application shared that memory space. ? On a 4K Mattel Aquarius I wrote software that: - Allowed me to catalog my comic book collection in a database saved to cassette tape (I was 12 ;) - Played games This machine had 4K TOTAL. After BASIC initialized there was actually something less than 2K of program space. On a 48K Apple ][+ I: - Wrote and edited documents in full screen WYSIWYG mode - Created databases - Worked numbers in spreadsheets - Played games To be blunt, I cannot understand how anyone on this list can make such comments. It was not difficult, as Ben has characterized. In fact, it was probably easier. Not only that, but a whole industry was created on machines that had a fraction of a fraction of the computing power and storage that systems today have. We could not get from there to here if it were that "difficult". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 14:38:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > So I wasn't TOO late then :) Did yours come with any detailed servicing > docs? I've got the full $125 (whee) technical manual but no servicing > manual other than level 3 which gets as far as > if-the-lights-do-this-then-send-it-back-for-repair. I've resurrected 2, > one of which was the prototype so I'm happy, but have 3 more dead ones. I don't believe I received any docs for it. Just the machine and an external disk drive. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 23 14:40:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > At one point yesterday, after I installed the replacement bulkhead, I > could get the system to go though its diagnostics and end at '3' on the > numerical readout, which was the expected behavior. Later that evening, > I tried powering it up again, at which point it hung at '9', and > wouldn't progress any further. I went ahead and made up a console cable > with the pinout found at > [http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/panels.htm] but the system > still hangs at '9'. Anyone know what might be happening? Of course, I > double checked the power supply voltages, which were ok, as well as > reseated boards/connectors, but still no go. I had time to troubleshoot further, and somehow managed to get it to at least make it to '6', but couldn't get it to progress past '9' the next time (when I had a console cable connected). I'm starting to think there may indeed be a power supply issue, but I won't know for sure for a few more weeks at least. Is the power supply in the BA123 failure prone in this manner, especially after being out of service for 6 years? Also, what is the story on the FCO on the power harnesses for the backplane? The two harnesses in my BA123 are made of a gray ribbon cable pressed into orange connectors. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 14:42:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > That sounds like possibly a "thermal recalibration". But I didn't think > that drives did that anymore. I don't know what that is but I don't like the sound of it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 14:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: <011401c29302$2932adc0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Try googling for "IBM Deathstar" (that is NOT a typo). The Deskstars are > notorious for poor reliability. Oh shit. > IIRC, that's what they do when they start to fail. Get your data backed up > ASAP. That thing'll be dead in two weeks tops. It's been doing that for months now. I've had it for a little less than a year. > Got a CD or DVD recorder and a stack of blank, good quality (Verbatim > DatalifePlus SuperAZO) media? Gawd damn Fry's specials. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 23 14:52:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: OT: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: <200211231044.46742.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > If it's none of the above, I'm curious what OS you're running, > simply because it's not THAT many that are capable of support 60GB IDE > drives. XP (cowers in embarassment). I looked at the properties of the drive and this string shows up: IC35L060AVVA07-0 A Google search later and it's an IBM Deskstar 60GXP. Nothing on IBM's site indicates any firmware upgrades or problems with the drive. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From whdawson at localisps.net Sat Nov 23 15:39:00 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (whdawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <2143.4.20.168.135.1037991663.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > Eric Smith wrote: > If we don't keep an eye on what Congress is doing, and use the courts to > ensure that they keep our civil liberties intact, we will eventually find > that we no longer have them. For sure. "If the government, police and prosecutors could always be trusted to do the right thing, there would have never been a need for the Bill of Rights." Justice Leventhal US v. US District Court for the Central District of California 858 F2d 534 (9th Cir. 1988) As F. Lee Bailey once said, the major flaw in the American justice system is that appeals focus only on procedural errors, and ones guilt or innocence is never again an issue after the original trial, even if that trial reached the wrong result. To many prosecutors have the single goal of winning at any cost, regardless of whether justice is being done, the end result of which places too many innocent citizens in jail. It's amazing how many "law and order" types avoid this fate, for if more of their ilk unjustly ended up behind bars there'd surely be some changes within the justice racket. Bill We cannot speak of democracy if we are not ready to play by its rules. The main aspect of democracy is the right of people to change a government if they do not like it. Mohammad Khatami, President of Iran, August 28, 2002 From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Sat Nov 23 16:10:01 2002 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Gorilla Banana printer Message-ID: <200211232211.PAA19445@aztec2.asu.edu> Does anybody want one? This is a 300baud serial interface unit. I've tried it and it works. Slow and noisy, square pixels and all. In the off-chance that somebody wants this, it's yours for the shipping from Tucson, 85711. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Nov 23 16:25:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034294@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I had time to troubleshoot further, and somehow managed to get it to at least make it to '6', but >couldn't get it to progress past '9' the next time (when I had a console cable connected). I'm 9 is "Identifying console terminal". It's supposed to give up after six seconds and skip to step 7. If it identifies ther terminal, it will go to step 8 instead and query the language. 6 is the RAM test. You said uVAX II but what cards are in there? If it finds a video card I think the sequence might change a bit. >Also, what is the story on the FCO on the power harnesses for the backplane? The two harnesses in >my BA123 are made of a gray ribbon cable pressed into orange connectors. I *thought* it was the early BA23 power harness that had the issue, not the BA123. A bit of googling through newsgroups (comp.sys.dec or comp.os.vms) should nail that down somewhat. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Nov 23 16:28:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT440 repair manual or schematic set. Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF9B@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I am looking for engineering drawings and/or maintenance manual for a DEC VT440 terminal. A copy or >scan would be fine. www.vt100.net has the VT420 Pocket Service Guide online. I've never seen the schematics available anywhere. Antonio From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 23 16:32:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C651@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > >Also, what is the story on the FCO on the power harnesses for the > backplane? The two harnesses in > >my BA123 are made of a gray ribbon cable pressed into orange > connectors. > > I *thought* it was the early BA23 power harness that > had the issue, not the BA123. A bit of googling through > newsgroups (comp.sys.dec or comp.os.vms) should nail > that down somewhat. Yes, with the BA23 there were serious risks of fire and fun like that with the _OLD_ power harness. You can recognize those by the color: the power wires are WHITE with colored plugs. The NEW ones have COLORED wires with a WHITE plug. If you have a BA23 with WHITE power wires... burn it! --fred From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 23 17:02:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C651@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Yes, with the BA23 there were serious risks of fire and fun like > that with the _OLD_ power harness. You can recognize those by > the color: the power wires are WHITE with colored plugs. The NEW > ones have COLORED wires with a WHITE plug. If you have a BA23 > with WHITE power wires... burn it! Won't it do that by itself? Also, I'd recommend not burning the whole BA23 enclosure, but rather only the power harness. And assuming one couldn't find a replacement power harness for the bad one, what would it take to modify/repair the bad one to make it safe to use? Is it just the matter of replacing some of the existing wire with something of a heavier gauge? -brian. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Nov 23 17:20:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: OT: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211231821.30287.jcwren@jcwren.com> www.storagereview.com is an excellent resource for comparing "modern" drives. People can contribute their user experience and it's added to the drive reliability database. At one point there was even talk about a class action suit against IBM about the 60GXP and 75GXP. I have a 45GB 75GXP that has been flawless, yet a friend of mine who is at IT manager has reported 55% failure rate across several hundred drives. Thermal recalibration was on older drives. Periodically, the electronics would seek to home and perform a calibration read, then seek to outermost cylinder and perform a read. The head positioning was then recalculated to allow for platter tolerances caused by thermal issues. This was why a few years ago some drives were sold as "AV" or Audio Visual drives. They did not have this recalibration procedure, which allowed them to be used for streaming video. Obviously having the drive go away for 2 or 3 seconds doing a recalibration perdiodically would wreak havoc when you were dealing with highbandwidth streams. Also, drives had much smaller buffers (128K, 256K) rather than the pretty much standard 2MB buffers todays drivers had. Now, on XP. I get really tired of hearing people bash Windows. Running an OS that suits ones needs is the thing to do. In my mind, XP is technically superior to NT and Win2K, although I *personally* won't run XP because of the licensing issues, and MSs intent. For me, Win2K will most likely be the end of the line for Windows, for me, unless Microsoft and me has a serious Comes To Jesus meeting, where I'm Jesus. I'm not about to let some miserable OS manufacturer impose their idea of Digital Rights Management on my life. And since I'm a big believer in voting with your dollars, I'll vote myself all the way over to Linux (I run about 40% Windows, 40% Linux distros, and 20% odd-others, like Solaris and Mac OSX. I don't do any production work on the classic computers, so I don't count them among my mix.) So if XP works for you, and your comfortable with MSs idea of the future, no one should be judging you on that. To use a politically correct statement from Southpark, it's your "life choice". Whatever works, eh? --John On Saturday 23 November 2002 07:54, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > > If it's none of the above, I'm curious what OS you're running, > > simply because it's not THAT many that are capable of support 60GB IDE > > drives. > > XP (cowers in embarassment). > > I looked at the properties of the drive and this string shows up: > > IC35L060AVVA07-0 > > A Google search later and it's an IBM Deskstar 60GXP. > > Nothing on IBM's site indicates any firmware upgrades or problems with the > drive. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com > * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 23 18:15:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034294@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034294@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I had time to troubleshoot further, and somehow managed to get it to > > at least make it to '6', but couldn't get it to progress past '9' the > > next time (when I had a console cable connected). I'm > > 9 is "Identifying console terminal". It's supposed to give up after six > seconds and skip to step 7. If it identifies ther terminal, it will go > to step 8 instead and query the language. It's supposed to give up after 6 seconds, but in my case, it doesn't... > 6 is the RAM test. Right, and it took a *long* time when the system was initially able to get though all of the tests. > You said uVAX II but what cards are in there? If it finds a video card I > think the sequence might change a bit. Its nearly a stock DEC MicroVAX II. No graphics hardware at all (which would have made it a VAXStation II). Board complement, as installed and as originally configured by DEC: Slot Module Cardcage legend Option 1 M7606-AF M7606-H2 KA630-AA 2 M7608-BP M7608-B2 MS630-BB 3 M9047 M9047 grant card 4 M3104 M3104-C1 DHV11-A 5/upper M7546 M7546-E1 TQK50-AA 5/lower M7555 M7555-C1 RQDX3 6-12 empty 13/lower RQDX signal distribution board Slots 1-4 are Q/CD, 5-12 are Q/Q, and 13 is power only. I've since pulled all the boards, installed a M7625-AA (KA655) and M7621 (MS650) 8MB memory card by themselves, and got a chevron prompt. I also got a memory error and a message stating normal startup is not possible. 'show memory' showed 0MB of ram installed. I tried another 8MB board with the same results. I also tried 3 different 16MB boards, but the LED display showed 'F', and of course, I didn't get a chevron prompt. I'm *really* leaning towards a power supply problem. I did already clean the power supply (I did that while cleaning the rest of the system). Does anyone know where I can find the pinout for the power supply connectors? > > Also, what is the story on the FCO on the power harnesses for the > > backplane? The two harnesses in my BA123 are made of a gray ribbon > > cable pressed into orange connectors. > > I *thought* it was the early BA23 power harness that had the issue, not > the BA123. A bit of googling through newsgroups (comp.sys.dec or > comp.os.vms) should nail that down somewhat. Google turned up mostly vague info describing the affected harnesses, but I did see references to both the BA123 and BA23 harnesses having been FCO'd. The same references also mentioned the replacement harnesses have white connectors and individual wires instead of a webbed or ribbon type cable. To me, those white connectors sound like AMP or Molex connectors with individual pins crimped onto each wire instead of having the wires pressed into an IDC type connector like the harnesses currently installed in my BA123. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 23 18:18:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Yes, with the BA23 there were serious risks of fire and fun like that > > with the _OLD_ power harness. You can recognize those by the color: > > the power wires are WHITE with colored plugs. The NEW ones have > > COLORED wires with a WHITE plug. If you have a BA23 with WHITE power > > wires... burn it! > > Won't it do that by itself? Also, I'd recommend not burning the whole > BA23 enclosure, but rather only the power harness. And assuming one > couldn't find a replacement power harness for the bad one, what would it > take to modify/repair the bad one to make it safe to use? Is it just > the matter of replacing some of the existing wire with something of a > heavier gauge? I'm thinking the IDC connectors were at fault, so in effect, the only way to "repair" it would be to replace the whole harness :) Anyone know what the official DEC conclusion was? -Toth From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Nov 23 18:20:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >only the power harness. And assuming one couldn't find a replacement power harness for the bad >one, what would it take to modify/repair the bad one to make it safe to use? Is it just the matter >of replacing some of the existing wire with something of a heavier gauge? I believe the problem is that the wires are of differing lengths and hence resistance. Plus they were (or may have been) specced a tad to near the limit. The end result was that the longest wire (greatest resistance) heated up the most and eventually went phut, leaving the other five (or so) to go pop shortly thereafter. So heavier gauge and same length would seem to be required. OTOH if the problem was that bad (none of mine in the lab ever exhibited any pyrotechnic tendencies) would it not have corrected itself by now :-) Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 23 18:34:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDF06FF.3060308@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 22, 2 09:41:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021123/ee2a83f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 23 18:35:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 22, 2 07:05:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021123/206c64bd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 23 18:37:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: <4430.4.20.168.135.1038018108.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Nov 22, 2 06:21:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021123/172aca6e/attachment.ksh From alanp at snowmoose.com Sat Nov 23 18:50:19 2002 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: More dumb VAX 11/750 questions Message-ID: <20021124005119.B846342CA4@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Hi guys, Finding this list has encouraged me to try and get some stuff together on my VAX. Sorry for the extra traffic. Q1. Right now I have a UNIBUS expansion cabinet attached to the primary 11/750 cabinet. I would like to replace it with my TU80 (with a RA82 in the lower drive bay). Can I just move the UNIBUS cards that I want to keep to the primary UNIBUS and pull the DW750 from the CPU back plane and be good? The James Lothian FAQ mentions something about reconfiguring some jumpers if you install a DW750, so I would probably need to change them back if I remove it, right? Q2. Right now I have a DEUNA, UDA50/UDA52 and DHU11 in the primary UNIBUS with those bus continuity cards installed in the open bus slots. On the secondary UNIBUS, I have the TU80 controller, another DHU11 and a DMF32. Can I just pull the bus continuity cards from the primary UNIBUS and install the TU80 controller and DMF32 in those slots? Q3. Right now the memory slots have M8750s CJs in both end slots and 6 six National Semiconductor 753 1M boards in between. Does it have to be this way? I have two spare M8750s. Are there any advantages between the DEC memory boards and the NS boards? Q4. I have a floating point option board (L0001) that is supposedly intermittently bad. Anyone know what kinds of things fail on these boards? Q5. Should I use or not use some kind of contact cleaner on the board fingers and the sockets they go in? Thanks, alan From r.stek at snet.net Sat Nov 23 18:52:26 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! Message-ID: <000101c29353$e50c6a80$6401a8c0@mycroft> Fred - the PC version was published in '83. I tracked down one of the authors - Dale Buscaine - and he still has the manual, but has misplaced the disk! I found one reference that Harv Pennington passed away in the early '90's. Also found one employee of IJG who lost his personal TRS-80's when the company folded and its doors were locked. There is a Michael Shrayer who lives outside of LA, but I haven'r been able to find an email address for him. Isn't there anyone out there with a copy?! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Nov 23 20:26:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels Message-ID: <5B348C48-FF54-11D6-A4D6-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Ever notice that on modern keyboards, the letters on the keys are not in the middle of the key? They are off to the left. This is something that has always kind of annoyed me. I like the way the older keyboards were made, like on the VT100 terminal. Not only did they have real switches and a great feel, but the letters were right there in the middle of the key, where they should be. Not only that, but the labels on these old keyboards actually went all the way through the key - it was made of two different colors of plastic. This way, the letters wouldn't wear off. It's obvious why they changed the key switches - to make the keyboard cheaper. That and some people are weird and don't like the wonderful sounds that the older keyboards made. (I hate quiet keyboards...) But why were the letters moved? Was this cheaper or easier? Or did Apple suddenly do it and then everyone else followed suit? Does anyone know what computer started using this style of keycap labeling? Just curious. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Nov 23 21:17:00 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021123191938.026b9980@mail.zipcon.net> At 06:23 PM 11/23/02 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone know what the official DEC conclusion was? Sounds like the same problem the the Dec-Rainbow had with it's power supply, and they had a replacement cable that had thicker wire and better IDC contacts, but I always went and bought solder type connectors of the right spacing and appropriate color wire and made my own. the powersupply and mainboard in the rainbow had the same spacing as video game harnesses of the same period.... From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Nov 23 21:37:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <5B348C48-FF54-11D6-A4D6-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021124033821.48463.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Just making a guess here, but I'll bet the pad printing is less likely to wear off if it's off to one corner. Modern keyboards ARE junky. I'll bet you can't find any modern example of a double-shot molded keytop keyboard. --- Sark wrote: > Ever notice that on modern keyboards, the letters on > the keys are not > in the middle of the key? They are off to the left. > This is something > that has always kind of annoyed me. I like the way > the older keyboards > were made, like on the VT100 terminal. Not only did > they have real > switches and a great feel, but the letters were > right there in the > middle of the key, where they should be. Not only > that, but the labels > on these old keyboards actually went all the way > through the key - it > was made of two different colors of plastic. This > way, the letters > wouldn't wear off. It's obvious why they changed the > key switches - to > make the keyboard cheaper. That and some people are > weird and don't > like the wonderful sounds that the older keyboards > made. (I hate quiet > keyboards...) But why were the letters moved? Was > this cheaper or > easier? Or did Apple suddenly do it and then > everyone else followed > suit? Does anyone know what computer started > using this style > of keycap labeling? > > Just curious. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Nov 23 22:11:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Electric Pencil WP ... for the IBM PC! In-Reply-To: <000101c29353$e50c6a80$6401a8c0@mycroft> Message-ID: You're right. I was confusing it with the last time that I saw Pennington, which was while I had a Comdex booth on the Mezzanine. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Robert Stek wrote: > Fred - the PC version was published in '83. I tracked down one of the > authors - Dale Buscaine - and he still has the manual, but has misplaced > the disk! I found one reference that Harv Pennington passed away in the > early '90's. Also found one employee of IJG who lost his personal > TRS-80's when the company folded and its doors were locked. There is a > Michael Shrayer who lives outside of LA, but I haven'r been able to find > an email address for him. > > Isn't there anyone out there with a copy?! > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Sat Nov 23 22:12:49 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.river stonenet.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021123230151.02184680@mail.itm-inst.com> At 04:20 PM 11/23/02 -0800, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >only the power harness. And assuming one couldn't find a replacement >power harness for the bad > >one, what would it take to modify/repair the bad one to make it safe to >use? Is it just the matter >of replacing some of the existing wire with >something of a heavier gauge? > >I believe the problem is that the wires are of differing lengths >and hence resistance. Plus they were (or may have been) specced >a tad to near the limit. The end result was that the longest wire >(greatest resistance) heated up the most and eventually went phut, >leaving the other five (or so) to go pop shortly thereafter. My experience - having seen several badly melted connectors - was that the clips on the ends of the orange cable sets don't make adequate contact with the pins on the backplane and power supply. They heat up to the point where the connector shell begins to melt, which begins to oxidize the pins, making more heat due to the additional resistance. This is not due to different lengths - all the wires in the orange cable harness are the same lengths. You can recognize the updated wire harness because it consists of two white blocks on either end of the assembly; the wires are different colors. >So heavier gauge and same length would seem to be required. Nope, it's not the wire that's the problem - it's the connector's bearing area. >OTOH if the problem was that bad (none of mine in the lab ever exhibited >any pyrotechnic tendencies) would it not have corrected itself by now >:-) That depends on how much load you put on the cables. Lightly loaded systems won't ever have a problem. -Rick From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Nov 23 22:47:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises Message-ID: <10e.1a9ea1f1.2b11b41f@aol.com> In a message dated 11/23/2002 3:49:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, foo@siconic.com writes: << > Try googling for "IBM Deathstar" (that is NOT a typo). The Deskstars are > notorious for poor reliability. Oh shit. > IIRC, that's what they do when they start to fail. Get your data backed up > ASAP. That thing'll be dead in two weeks tops. It's been doing that for months now. I've had it for a little less than a year. > Got a CD or DVD recorder and a stack of blank, good quality (Verbatim > DatalifePlus SuperAZO) media? Gawd damn Fry's specials. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Normally IBM drives are pretty good. The issue was about some particular model that was rated for xxxx hours of constant usage or something like that. Check slashdot archives for discussion on it. If it's a SMART drive, you have the program that can query the drive, it might be able to tell you if anything bad is happening. I've still got IBM SCSI drives from 8-10 years ago still going strong with that soft tick-tick-tick recalibrate noise happening every once in a while. The 400 meg ones are so quiet you can't tell when they doing R/W operations. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Nov 23 22:49:45 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Gorilla Banana printer Message-ID: <18d.11b1a0d8.2b11b43d@aol.com> In a message dated 11/23/2002 5:13:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, dlormand@aztec.asu.edu writes: << Does anybody want one? This is a 300baud serial interface unit. I've tried it and it works. Slow and noisy, square pixels and all. In the off-chance that somebody wants this, it's yours for the shipping from Tucson, 85711. >> Don't want it, but I remember that being hyped up in the old DAK catalogs. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sun Nov 24 01:13:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <20021124033821.48463.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c29389$022b7400$4d4d2c0a@atx> A less cynical view would be that many non-USA keyboards have 3 or more symbols associated with a key and thus "standard" keycaps are designed to take up to 4 symbols in a regular pattern. > Just making a guess here, but I'll bet the pad > printing is less likely to wear off if it's off to one > corner. Modern keyboards ARE junky. I'll bet you can't > find any modern example of a double-shot molded keytop > keyboard. > > > --- Sark wrote: > > Ever notice that on modern keyboards, the letters on > > the keys are not > > in the middle of the key? They are off to the left. > > This is something > > that has always kind of annoyed me. I like the way > > the older keyboards > > were made, like on the VT100 terminal. Not only did > > they have real > > switches and a great feel, but the letters were > > right there in the > > middle of the key, where they should be. Not only > > that, but the labels > > on these old keyboards actually went all the way > > through the key - it > > was made of two different colors of plastic. This > > way, the letters > > wouldn't wear off. It's obvious why they changed the > > key switches - to > > make the keyboard cheaper. That and some people are > > weird and don't > > like the wonderful sounds that the older keyboards > > made. (I hate quiet > > keyboards...) But why were the letters moved? Was > > this cheaper or > > easier? Or did Apple suddenly do it and then > > everyone else followed > > suit? Does anyone know what computer started > > using this style > > of keycap labeling? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Ian Primus > > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > Andy From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 24 01:30:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <5B348C48-FF54-11D6-A4D6-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > keyboards...) But why were the letters moved? Was this cheaper or > easier? Or did Apple suddenly do it and then everyone else followed > suit? Does anyone know what computer started using this style > of keycap labeling? I think the idea is that they are less likely to get rubbed off from use if they are not directly underneath the tip of your finger. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Nov 24 03:29:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com>; from Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 01:20:24 CET References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <20021124102609.Y1222@MissSophie> On 2002.11.24 01:20 Antonio Carlini wrote: > I believe the problem is that the wires are of differing lengths > and hence resistance. Yes. I have seen a toasted BA23 power harness... > The end result was that the longest wire > (greatest resistance) heated up the most and eventually went phut, No. The wires are connected in parallel. They have different lengths and thus different resistance - the longer the higher. "Current allways uses the way of lowest resistance." So the shortest wire has to carry a higher current than the other wires. The wire can carry this higher current, but the connector can't. So the _connector_ heats up and "the magic blue smoke escapes"... Solution was to use equal length wires (=equal current distribution among wires/connectors) and better connectors that can carry higher current. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Nov 24 04:13:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:06 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <20021124102609.Y1222@MissSophie> Message-ID: <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.11.24 01:20 Antonio Carlini wrote: > > No. The wires are connected in parallel. They have different lengths and > thus different resistance - the longer the higher. "Current allways uses > the way of lowest resistance." So the shortest wire has to carry a > higher current than the other wires. The wire can carry this higher > current, but the connector can't. So the _connector_ heats up and "the > magic blue smoke escapes"... > Solution was to use equal length wires (=equal current distribution > among wires/connectors) and better connectors that can carry higher > current. > -- Let's try to keep this in accordance with real physical laws:- the current flowing in the wires will be inversely proportional to the resistance since the potential difference across them is the same. The physical principle that causes the problem is that the power dissipated is proportional to the *square* of the current. In case of any doubters - Ohms Law: I = V/R => V=IR Power dissipated: P = IV => P = I(IR) So, for example, if one cable/connector pair had twice the resistance of another, the second would dissipate four times as much power as the first. If, as other posters have indicated, the bulk of the resistance is in the connector then the heating effect will be quite localised, and the home cooking lessons are on. Cheers, Dave. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Nov 24 05:41:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <20021124102609.Y1222@MissSophie> <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <20021124114242.GA355@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:14:31AM +0000, Dave Woodman wrote: > Let's try to keep this in accordance with real physical laws:- I know this laws very well, I am studying EE. :-) I tried to keep things simple to avoid loosing my self in details. (That nobody can understand without at least basic knowledge about EE.) -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Nov 24 07:25:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: Dave Woodman "Re: MicroVAX II" (Nov 24, 10:14) References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <20021124102609.Y1222@MissSophie> <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <10211241303.ZM3782@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 24, 10:14, Dave Woodman wrote: > Let's try to keep this in accordance with real physical laws:- the > current flowing in the wires will be inversely proportional to the > resistance since the potential difference across them is the same. So far, so good... > The physical principle > that causes the problem is that the power dissipated is proportional to the *square* of the current. In case of any doubters - > > > Ohms Law: > I = V/R > > => V=IR > > Power dissipated: > P = IV > > => P = I(IR) > > So, for example, if one cable/connector pair had twice the resistance of > another, the second would dissipate four times as much power as the > first. Er, no. The current will NOT be the same in each case. If you're going to use mathematical equations to argue, use the right ones :-) Power dissipated (assuming steady-state DC): P = IV and I = V/R => P = V^2/R So if one cable/connector pair has twice the resistance of the other, the second will dissipate twice, not four times, the power (since V is the same for both). But even that analysis is over-simplified. The PSU provides a fixed voltage (assuming it's running within expected limits). Part of that voltage is dropped over the intended load, and part over the cables/connectors. If the resistance of the cables or connectors goes up (which is what happened) then the proportion dropped by the cable/connector combination also rises (and the resistance also goes up slightly as the temperature rises). This makes the situation slighly worse than my maths above suggests, but not as bad as Dave suggested. > If, as other posters have indicated, the bulk of the resistance is in > the connector then the heating effect will be quite localised, and the > home cooking lessons are on. That's still true, of course, but the difference isn't as extreme as you implied. In the cable looms that failed, it was the cables' insulation that melted, but mostly near the connectors, and typically on all the 5V cables, not just the longer ones. I remember some discussions in DECUSERVE NOTES about it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Nov 24 07:50:01 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034295@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <20021124102609.Y1222@MissSophie> <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> <10211241303.ZM3782@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3DE0D972.C49E942F@naffnet.org.uk> Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 24, 10:14, Dave Woodman wrote: > > > Let's try to keep this in accordance with real physical laws:- the > > current flowing in the wires will be inversely proportional to the > > resistance since the potential difference across them is the same. > > So far, so good... > > > The physical principle > > that causes the problem is that the power dissipated is proportional to > the *square* of the current. In case of any doubters - > > > > > > Ohms Law: > > I = V/R > > > > => V=IR > > > > Power dissipated: > > P = IV > > > > => P = I(IR) > > > > So, for example, if one cable/connector pair had twice the resistance of > > another, the second would dissipate four times as much power as the > > first. > > Er, no. The current will NOT be the same in each case. If you're going to > use mathematical equations to argue, use the right ones :-) I did not mean to imply that the current is the same, merely to illustrate that the power dissipated is proportional to the square of the current! I therefore stand by what I wrote, for the purposes that I wrote it only. Your posting does indeed, better analyse the situation, but I was not attempting to do that. The reason that I felt it necessary to post was the assertion that 'current always uses the way of lowest resistance' which would imply that the user could have only one set of cables - and a real fire would be soon on the cards. Cheers, Dave. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Nov 24 09:47:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >I've since pulled all the boards, installed a M7625-AA (KA655) and M7621 >(MS650) 8MB memory card by themselves, and got a chevron prompt. I also got a memory error and a >message stating normal startup is not possible. 'show memory' showed 0MB of ram installed. I tried >another 8MB board with the same results. I also tried 3 different 16MB boards, but the LED display >showed 'F', and of course, I didn't get a chevron prompt. You know that the over-the-top connector used on the KA630 and the KA65x are different? I don't know exactly what failure you see if you use the KA630 OTP with the KA65x - but you may just have found out! It seems odd that a PSU could cause this problem and I'd be surprised if *all* your memory boards are faulty (I've never found a dead one even after they'd spent quite a while floating round the lab). Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun Nov 24 09:50:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AF9E@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >No. The wires are connected in parallel. They have different lengths and thus different resistance >- the longer the higher. "Current allways uses the way of lowest resistance." So the shortest wire >has to carry a higher current than the other wires. The wire can carry this higher current, but the >connector can't. So the _connector_ heats up and "the magic blue smoke escapes"... >Solution was to use equal length wires (=equal current distribution among wires/connectors) and >better connectors that can carry higher current. I'll try to stop that late night thinking - it never works :-) Antonio From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 24 10:39:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDE3389.11332.2E7F2D12@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 22, 2002 01:39:21 PM Message-ID: <200211241640.LAA32405@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Hans Franke once stated: > > Hmm... I have a hard time to agree here. The 8086/7/9 is > to me one of the best CPU designs ever - at least for a > true 16 Bit machine. I true atempt to brng the good parts > of mainframe design to microprocessors. What is the 8089 used for? Some sort of DMA or IO controller? -spc (Didn't mind programming the 80x86 in assembly ... ) From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 24 11:04:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <3DDF06FF.3060308@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 22, 2002 09:41:35 PM Message-ID: <200211241705.MAA32475@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great ben franchuk once stated: > > Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >>In hindsight we now know that 16 bits is too small a > >>addressing range for a general purpose byte/word cpu's > > > > > > I can't believe someone actually said this on *this* list. I think I'll go > > throw out all my 6502-based systems since they're so pointless for general > > purpose computing. > > I did not say General purpose computing can't be done, > just that it is a very small amount of memory for most > user programs. It is really hard work to have a useful > programs written on the small 8 bit machines, and fit > in 32k or 48k of memory incuding the OS. Useful in what context? I wrote nearly every paper for high school and college, plus a humor column [1] on an 8-bit computer [2], and I had a 2nd cousin (Mom's cousin) that wrote a few books on an 8-bit computer [3]. Okay, you might not be able to effectively run more than one application at a time, but that might not be such a *bad* thing, if you want to get work done 8-) > PS use 6809's rather than 6502's. :) No argument there. -spc (First assembly language was 6809 ... ) [1] http://www.conman.org/people/spc/writings/murphy/ [2] Color Computer 2 with 64K RAM. [3] Northstar, probably running CP/M. I remember using it to play games writtin in BASIC on it. From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 24 11:07:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: OT Bush and Canada In-Reply-To: <3DDEC3E3.22483.59260D2@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 22, 2002 11:55:15 PM Message-ID: <200211241708.MAA32484@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated: > > Try looking up what the phrase " in reference to" means. And tell me > what +AD4- and +ACI- means. It's unclear. Encoding sequences (I think we went over this just a few weeks ago). If you want more information, read RFC-2152, which goes over this encoding scheme. -spc (It's a method for encoding UNICODE in 7-bit characters that can apparently survive translations to and from EBCDIC ... ) From ernestls at attbi.com Sun Nov 24 11:50:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Gorilla Banana printer In-Reply-To: <200211232211.PAA19445@aztec2.asu.edu> Message-ID: I want it. E. http://12.228.5.66 > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of DAVID L. ORMAND > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:11 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Gorilla Banana printer > > > > > Does anybody want one? This is a 300baud serial interface unit. > I've tried it and it works. Slow and noisy, square pixels and all. > > In the off-chance that somebody wants this, it's yours for the shipping > from Tucson, 85711. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 12:34:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <3DE0A687.86A2E193@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman" at Nov 24, 2 10:14:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/7e1f683c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 12:43:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <3DE0D972.C49E942F@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman" at Nov 24, 2 01:51:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 997 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/345e5c40/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 12:46:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <20021124114242.GA355@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Nov 24, 2 12:42:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/81414c3a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 12:47:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <200211241640.LAA32405@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Nov 24, 2 11:40:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/f3a1d488/attachment.ksh From spc at conman.org Sun Nov 24 13:12:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Nov 24, 2002 06:45:09 PM Message-ID: <200211241913.OAA00114@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > > > What is the 8089 used for? Some sort of DMA or IO controller? > > It was called an I/O processor. It was a _very_ fancy DMA controller -- > more like a processor designed for moving data around, checking status > bits, and so on. Did you program it by writing to registers (using the 80x86 IN/OUT instruction) or did it work like the 80x87, which extended the instruction set? -spc (Sounds interesting in any case ... ) From n4fs at monmouth.com Sun Nov 24 13:14:02 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: Message-ID: <00c301c293ed$a535e4a0$086dbd18@n4fs> Regardless if remote sensing is used or not, the power dissipated in the harness will be P=R*I^2, so, proportional to the current squared. With remote sensing I will be a constant as stated, even if the harness resistance goes up, so the power dissipated within the harness then is increased. Without remote sensing I will more than likely go down, but R will still go up in case of an overheated cable or bad connector, provided the bad connector is on the load end and not the source end. But since we are only talking about defective, or inadequate cables, power dissipated in the cable will still be P=R*I^2. Of course all the other equations given by Tony are also correct. Low resistance cables will dissipate the most power in the load and minimum in the cable. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Nov 24 13:33:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: Message-ID: <3DE129BE.2AC58E6B@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > I see... Rather than analyse the problem at hand, you'll pick some > totally different case to analyse. > > -tony I made no attempt ao analyse anything:- that has been read into my post by others. Enough sniping, methinks, and more than enough words being put into my mouth. Dave. From MTPro at aol.com Sun Nov 24 14:40:00 2002 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: S-100 docs for sale . . . Message-ID: <122.1af052ad.2b129395@aol.com> Hello, I hope no one minds if I post this list of a few important documents that I think will interest the group, I don't think eBay is the best venue for them, and I'd rather someone from the group get first shot. Please just respond back to me directly. Below, just $5 each plus shipping: - Netronics 64K S100 Memory Board "JAWS" - approximately 20 pages stapled with assembly instructions and lots of schematics - no date, maybe 1978ish? - Solid State Music 2P + 2S I/O Board - approximately 20 pages stapled with assembly instructions, function check, setup and schematics - 1977. - Dutronics 8KLST/4KLST Memory Board - approximately 7 pages stapled with assembly instructions and schematic - no date, maybe 1976ish? - Dynabyte 32K Memory Board - approximately 12 pages stapled with nice heavy paper covers, professional inside. Includes general and operating instructions, memory test program and excellent schematics - 1978. - Canada Systems CL2400 Real Time Clock - Two manuals; one approximately 12 pages (Assembly Manual - assembly instructions and checkout) stapled with nice heavy paper cover, and one approximately 6 pages (Appendix - parts list, schematics) stapled with nice heavy paper cover - 1977. - Artec Electronics 32K-100 Memory Board - approximately 16 pages stapled with assembly instructions, parts list, theory of operation and lots of schematics - 1977. Below, just $10 each plus shipping: - Zapple 8K BASIC User's Manual by Technical Design Labs - approximately 25 pages with plastic ring, notebook style binding and heavy paper covers - 1976. - GraphicAdd Board manual for the VDM and SOL, KEA Micro Design - approximately 30 pages with nice heavy paper covers, includes assembly instructions, theory of operations, software package listings (Life animation!) and schematic, some underlining and writing with some tape on covers - 1977. - Cromemco 8K Bytesaver Instruction Manual - approximately 14 pages with very nice heavy paper covers, stapled at spine. Includes assembly instructions, parts list, Bytemover software, PROM data and excellent schematic - 1976. Below, just $15 plus shipping: - Cromemco DazzleWriter Software - approximately 15 pages stapled with memory requirements, paper tape loading instructions and assembly and octal listings - no date, maybe 1976ish? Thank you, David Greelish -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/0d9ad975/attachment.html From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Nov 24 14:49:00 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell/Bull D120 cartridge drive infor wanted. Message-ID: <3DD507620010A753@mta11n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) If anyone on the list has a user-, or even better, a maintenance manual for a Bull D120 cartridge drive I would like to hear from them. ( a 10Mb cartridge drive ca. 1980 ) Spare parts, empty cartridges or a complete replacement part would be more than welcome. They will form the basis for a new attempt to bring my ETH Lilith back to live..... Jos Dreesen From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 24 15:12:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <005701c293fe$504d1380$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I don't know if anybody said it here yet (I try* to not read the list all day long) but the voltage _drop_ of a wire carrying X volts isn't X, especially for the purposes of calculating power loss. One of those "You're Both right" kind of things. - - - A Phd friend of mine told me that he thought it was a mistake to enlist in the Marines After getting his 4y degree instead of before. On one of their tests they asked for the 'Three basic laws governing electricity' or some such. He was worried that he might get one of the equations wrong -- it might have been all three. They wanted V=IR, P=IV, I=V/R... he gave them Maxwell's equations. John A. *still trying and not always succeeding From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 24 15:14:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <005a01c293fe$6df5d980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I don't know if anybody said it here yet (I try* to not read the list all day long) but the voltage _drop_ of a wire carrying X volts isn't X, especially for the purposes of calculating power loss. One of those "You're Both right" kind of things. - - - A Phd friend of mine told me that he thought it was a mistake to enlist in the Marines After getting his 4y degree instead of before. On one of their tests they asked for the 'Three basic laws governing electricity' or some such. He was worried that he might get one of the equations wrong -- it might have been all three. They wanted V=IR, P=IV, I=V/R... he gave them Maxwell's equations. John A. *still trying and not always succeeding From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 24 15:15:45 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <005b01c293fe$7204f920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I don't know if anybody said it here yet (I try* to not read the list all day long) but the voltage _drop_ of a wire carrying X volts isn't X, especially for the purposes of calculating power loss. One of those "You're Both right" kind of things. - - - A Phd friend of mine told me that he thought it was a mistake to enlist in the Marines After getting his 4y degree instead of before. On one of their tests they asked for the 'Three basic laws governing electricity' or some such. He was worried that he might get one of the equations wrong -- it might have been all three. They wanted V=IR, P=IV, I=V/R... he gave them Maxwell's equations. John A. *still trying and not always succeeding From bernd at kopriva.de Sun Nov 24 15:18:00 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell/Bull D120 cartridge drive infor wanted. In-Reply-To: <3DD507620010A753@mta11n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) Message-ID: <18G4AN-21FmC0C@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Hi Jos, what's the relation between a Bull D120 (which i don't know) and a Lillith ... Bernd On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 01:52:20 +0100, Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel wrote: > > >If anyone on the list has a user-, or even better, a maintenance manual for a >Bull D120 cartridge drive I would like to hear from them. ( a 10Mb cartridge >drive ca. 1980 ) > >Spare parts, empty cartridges or a complete replacement part would be more >than welcome. >They will form the basis for a new attempt to bring my ETH Lilith back to >live..... > > > Jos Dreesen From n4fs at monmouth.com Sun Nov 24 15:26:00 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <005701c293fe$504d1380$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00f901c29400$38969a20$086dbd18@n4fs> Obviously what you state is correct. Otherwise nothing would work. However, if the load end is shorted to ground, then the voltage drop across the wire will be close to the source voltage, provided the power supply can provide the required current. If the wire opens up then of course it will no longer be carrying any current but the voltage across it will still be the source voltage as measured from the source to ground. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "CCTalk" Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: MicroVAX II > I don't know if anybody said it here yet (I try* to not read the > list all day long) but the voltage _drop_ of a wire carrying X > volts isn't X, especially for the purposes of calculating power > loss. One of those "You're Both right" kind of things. From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 24 15:36:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <005b01c293fe$7204f920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00cb01c29401$bbc01100$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Four message copies? New bug found with Outlook Express. I can provide details if you want. Don't think you want. John A. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Nov 24 16:52:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: <200211241705.MAA32475@conman.org> Message-ID: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Useful in what context? I wrote nearly every paper for high school and > college, plus a humor column [1] on an 8-bit computer [2], and I had a 2nd > cousin (Mom's cousin) that wrote a few books on an 8-bit computer [3]. > Okay, you might not be able to effectively run more than one application at > a time, but that might not be such a *bad* thing, if you want to get work > done 8-) For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) a good printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM PC had all the above features, but most 8 bit systems like S100 bus,apple,C64 Coco did not as a base system. Sadly the PC still does not have a real OS,but then I am a OS/9 fan. Right now modern machines require at least 67108864* bytes of memory to run. What will it be in 10 years from now. The first machine I used had 4096 words of memory.(* really more but my calculator can't display 256 * 1024 * 1024.) Somehow don't see the new computers a better machine for word processing, than the 8 bitters. For getting work done I think we took a wrong turn in computer design. Has anybody done a real feature/function compare of software with the 8/16/32 and now 64 bit machines? Ben All computers wait at same speed. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 17:11:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <005701c293fe$504d1380$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Nov 24, 2 04:12:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/75925f37/attachment.ksh From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Nov 24 17:15:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: I've written a lot of papers on a Commodore 64. I used this over my PC with Windows and Microsoft Word because it never crashed... That, and even with my 1541, it still seemed to save faster than Word. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 05:51 PM, ben franchuk wrote: > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > >> Useful in what context? I wrote nearly every paper for high school >> and >> college, plus a humor column [1] on an 8-bit computer [2], and I had >> a 2nd >> cousin (Mom's cousin) that wrote a few books on an 8-bit computer >> [3]. Okay, you might not be able to effectively run more than one >> application at >> a time, but that might not be such a *bad* thing, if you want to get >> work >> done 8-) > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > a good printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM > PC had all the above features, but most 8 bit systems like S100 > bus,apple,C64 Coco did not as a base system. Sadly the PC still does > not have a real OS,but then I am a OS/9 fan. > > Right now modern machines require at least 67108864* bytes of memory > to run. What will it be in 10 years from now. The first machine I used > had > 4096 words of memory.(* really more but my calculator can't display 256 > * 1024 * 1024.) Somehow don't see the new computers a better machine > for > word processing, than the 8 bitters. For getting work done I think > we took a wrong turn in computer design. Has anybody done a real > feature/function compare of software with the 8/16/32 and now 64 bit > machines? > Ben > All computers wait at same speed. > > From loedman1 at juno.com Sun Nov 24 17:18:00 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker Message-ID: <20021124.151733.-471589.1.loedman1@juno.com> Careful now, a quick visit to the Canadian Government website shows the following, (1) 7.6% unemployment (2) 3.2% inflation (3) Average family income of 38,000 after taxes (4) Exchange rate of 1.56690 to one, in our favor (5) Average retirement pension that is less than 10% of what mine will be, and of course that wonderful socialized health care. Doesn't seem that you are in any position to criticize George W or our Government until yours gets its act together. Rich loedman1@juno.com Subject: OT Bush and Canada > As a Canadian, I must explain to our US neighbors that the press misunderstood the Canadian official at the Prague meetings who was reported as saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. > In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval meaning "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he meant. And of course Dick Cheyny is also a veritable moron, (in Can. slang terms , of course). > Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 24 17:20:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 24, 2 03:51:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021124/027eb474/attachment.ksh From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Nov 24 17:25:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <20021124033821.48463.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 10:38 PM, Loboyko Steve wrote: > Just making a guess here, but I'll bet the pad > printing is less likely to wear off if it's off to one > corner. Modern keyboards ARE junky. I'll bet you can't > find any modern example of a double-shot molded keytop > keyboard. > Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently tracking down old, broken keyboards from terminals, etc. to get keytops and switches from, and I am going to canniballize a cheap PC USB keyboard for it's encoder chip and associated circuitry. Basically, I'm going to build a new key matrix from real switches, to replace that membrane and rubber disc thing modern keyboards use. I've done stuff like this before, rewiring a very old PC keyboard to replace a broken TRS-80 Color Computer 3 keyboard. With any luck, I'll have something that won't wear out nearly as fast as others, and be comfortable to type on as well. The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, as I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Nov 24 17:33:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <20021124033821.48463.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33231.64.169.63.74.1038180873.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sark wrote: > The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I > don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, as > I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact > bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? In my experience, membrane keyboards have MORE contact bounce than "proper" switches. I suspect that the encoders in typical USB keyboards can handle the bounce just fine. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Nov 24 17:40:00 2002 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Attempting to find EISA .CFG for an SMC Elite32 Message-ID: Greetings; I'm trying to track down an EISA .CFG file for an SMC Elite32 8033W dual-port Ethernet card. Google is surprisingly sparse. The card ID is: SMC0110 (And, therefore, the CFG is !SMC0110.CFG) Many thanks, JP From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Nov 24 17:42:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: Message-ID: <3DE16338.5080502@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > This would take 2K of memory space (if memory-mapped), and therefore > could easily be accommodated by an 8 bit processor. But 80 x 24 display cards are hard to find, but a 80x24? terminal most likely would be used? I wonder if you can get a nice OS/9 machine still? >>full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > That has _nothing_ to do with the processor bus width! But 99% of all 8 bit machines in the 1980's were marketed as game machines. > > Heving driven Daisywheel printers and a Sanders 12/7 Varioprinter (a > multi-pass dot-matrix printer that could do _very_ near letter quality > output) from 8 bit machines, I don't see the problem either. I never had the money for a good printer at that time. > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Nov 24 17:44:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Score! Sol-20, Netronics Elf, MCS-85 SBC In-Reply-To: <3DDFD2E4.AF437AE5@attbi.com> References: <3DDFD2E4.AF437AE5@attbi.com> Message-ID: <200211241845.24498.jcwren@jcwren.com> I just had a friend give me a Sol-20 (*excellent* cosmetic shape), a Netronics Elf (haven't seen this one before, it's got a small (4 x 6?) CPU card, and a riser card for the keyboard and display), and a MCS-85 SBC development card. I haven't even had a chance to go through to see what S-100 cards are in the Sol. But I'm just sort of beside myself at the moment, because I've wanted a Sol-20 for years, happened to mention that I'd like first dibs on his if he ever sold it, and he says "Come get, I'll never get around to messing with it. Oh, and here's some other stuff you may want." Of course, I need to go through the whole thing, clean it, and do all the prerequisites on a system that's been sitting for 15 years.... Oh, and if anyone wants to donate me a Helio II drive, I'll pay shipping. :) Wheeeeee! --John From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Nov 24 18:03:00 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 19:36:54 CET References: <20021124114242.GA355@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20021125004608.G1222@MissSophie> On 2002.11.24 19:36 Tony Duell wrote: > > I know this laws very well, I am studying EE. :-) > I am not convinced that one necessarily follows from the other. I've > met plenty of so-called EE's who can't calculate (say) the voltage on > the tap of a potential divider. I can, belive me I can. ;-) Some time ago, when I didn't have a multisync monitor, the first thing that I did when I got a new "toy" with graphics card was to warm up the good, old HP scope. I used it to check if the video timing would fit to one of the several fixed frequncy monitors in my collection... > I have to say that anyone who attempts to work on classic computer > hardware (or any hardware for that matter) without a basic > understanding of electrical engineering (including things like > V=I*R [1]) is making life difficult for themselves. I second that. I know a collector who knows nothing about hardware and how it works. But he can tell you a lot about Lisp and how wonderful his Symbolics machines / Genera are from a programmers point of view. I found his machines interresting due to the bit slice CPU design with loadable micorcode. When I told him that I builded a simple voltage inverter (charge pump) to make the RS232 work on the Sun 4/600 MP he looked like it was black magic to convert +12V to -12V. (The Sun 4/600 MP boards needs -12V for the RS232, even -5V are not enough. As I mounted this board in a Sun 3/60 case that doesn't provide -12V, I could not use a serial console.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Nov 24 18:44:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently > tracking down old, broken keyboards from terminals, etc. to get keytops > and switches from, and I am going to canniballize a cheap PC USB > keyboard for it's encoder chip and associated circuitry. Basically, I'm > going to build a new key matrix from real switches, to replace that > membrane and rubber disc thing modern keyboards use. I've done stuff > like this before, rewiring a very old PC keyboard to replace a broken > TRS-80 Color Computer 3 keyboard. With any luck, I'll have something > that won't wear out nearly as fast as others, and be comfortable to > type on as well. The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I > don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, as > I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact > bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into the PS/2 keyboard port on the back of your computer? Or are you unlucky enough to have a machine that doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard connection? Sure, it's not the same as the keyboard on, say, and ADM-3A, but it's 'more authentic' than modern keyboards. Of course, sometimes I like the fact that my keyboard is fairly quiet when I'm typing on it. It may still be louder than my other machines in the room, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as a 'real' keybard. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 24 18:47:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, What's "real word processing"? You must mean What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get. In that case, sure, an 80x24 screen would be nice, but the same can be achieved (and was, in fact) on 40x24 screens. And if we want to talk real "real" word processing, why stop at 24 lines? Why not the requisite 60 lines to get a full page? By your standard, no computer even today can perform "real" word processing. Lowercase? A nice amenity, but the fact again is that even on computers that didn't have lowercase capability, people came up with effective ways to get around that limitation. You seem to want to go back and compare today's state of the art on computer technology of two decades ago. It's the equivalent of saying that nobody could get from Point A to Point B in any automobile before 1930 because they didn't have fuel injection, power steering and AM/FM radio. > full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > a good printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM > PC had all the above features, but most 8 bit systems like S100 > bus,apple,C64 Coco did not as a base system. Sadly the PC still does > not have a real OS,but then I am a OS/9 fan. So what? People still did useful work on those machines. I wrote a database program to store my comic book collection on a computer with 2K of effective memory and a rubber "chiclet" keyboard using cassette tape for storage. Are you saying this was't real? > Right now modern machines require at least 67108864* bytes of memory to > run. Maybe in your Microsoft-centric world. > What will it be in 10 years from now. The first machine I used had I don't know, but I suspect you'll argue that real work couldn't be performed with computers of today because we don't have 4 terabytes of main memory and a 100 Quadrabyte hard drive. > 4096 words of memory.(* really more but my calculator can't display 256 > * 1024 * 1024.) Somehow don't see the new computers a better machine for > word processing, than the 8 bitters. For getting work done I think > we took a wrong turn in computer design. Has anybody done a real > feature/function compare of software with the 8/16/32 and now 64 bit > machines? I have no idea what you are arguing about now. Sure, computers still have a way to go, but how does that justify your saying that no real work could be done on old 9-bit computers????? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Nov 24 18:50:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Equipment in Keene College.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021120174356.0502dab0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > Methinks someone on their staff has been smoking crack..... $160 for a > P-II 233 with 32 MB ram, no monior?!?!?!? Heh. I have 2 firewalls-in-training here that are 233/64MB/2.4G and 2 NICs. I gave $40 each. Doc From foo at siconic.com Sun Nov 24 18:52:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker In-Reply-To: <20021124.151733.-471589.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 loedman1@juno.com wrote: > Careful now, a quick visit to the Canadian Government website shows the > following, > (1) 7.6% unemployment Comparable with California. > (2) 3.2% inflation I don't know who's running the numbers but I've seen my cost of living steadily rise in the past few years. > (3) Average family income of 38,000 after taxes Ask any formerly employed tech worker what they're making now. > (4) Exchange rate of 1.56690 to one, in our favor Exchange rate of about 1.5 to one in the UK's favor. So what? > (5) Average retirement pension that is less than 10% of what mine will > be, Ask any Enron employee what their pension is worth now. > and of course that wonderful socialized health care. At least they HAVE health care. I'd be happy with at least one checkup a year that doesn't cost me issue #1 of Byte on eBay. > Doesn't seem that you are in any position to criticize George W or our > Government until yours gets its act together. Shit stinks no matter where your borders lay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Nov 24 19:17:01 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: References: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021124201339.01715f44@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:49 AM 11/24/02 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > >> For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > >What's "real word processing"? You must mean What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get. >In that case, sure, an 80x24 screen would be nice, but the same can be >achieved (and was, in fact) on 40x24 screens. And if we want to talk real >"real" word processing, why stop at 24 lines? Why not the requisite 60 >lines to get a full page? -snip- >It's >the equivalent of saying that nobody could get from Point A to Point B in >any automobile before 1930 because they didn't have fuel injection, power >steering and AM/FM radio. Heck, a pc-xt running emtex (Eberhard Mattes' port of TeX for the ibm pc) did better at formatting text than Word 2000, and this was back in 1990 or so. So did Framemaker on a Mac IIci in 1992, and it was wysiwyg. They were slow, though. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Nov 24 19:20:01 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3DF34600-0014-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> My new computer is a Power Macintosh G4. It doesn't have a PS/2 port. On my PC, I used an old Wang keyboard, a model 724. I really like that keyboard. I also have some of the IBM PS/2 Model M keyboards, the clicky ones. I like those too. I bought a PS/2 to USB adapter, but it would not work with the Wang keyboard. Also, with other keyboards, I don't have an Open-Apple key (pronounced "Meta"). If I connect a PC USB keyboard, the Windows key serves this purpose. The problem here is that the only PC keyboards with a Windows key are the membrane type. In other words, if I want to get a decent, yet compatible keyboard, It looks like I'll have to build it. Besides, I love projects like these. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 07:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > >> Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently >> tracking down old, broken keyboards from terminals, etc. to get >> keytops >> and switches from, and I am going to canniballize a cheap PC USB >> keyboard for it's encoder chip and associated circuitry. Basically, >> I'm >> going to build a new key matrix from real switches, to replace that >> membrane and rubber disc thing modern keyboards use. I've done stuff >> like this before, rewiring a very old PC keyboard to replace a broken >> TRS-80 Color Computer 3 keyboard. With any luck, I'll have something >> that won't wear out nearly as fast as others, and be comfortable to >> type on as well. The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I >> don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, >> as >> I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact >> bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? > > I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find > yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into the > PS/2 > keyboard port on the back of your computer? Or are you unlucky enough > to > have a machine that doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard connection? Sure, > it's > not the same as the keyboard on, say, and ADM-3A, but it's 'more > authentic' than modern keyboards. > > Of course, sometimes I like the fact that my keyboard is fairly quiet > when > I'm typing on it. It may still be louder than my other machines in the > room, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as a 'real' keybard. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Nov 24 19:51:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: Message-ID: <3DE18F95.3FC96BBB@ccp.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > What's "real word processing"? You must mean What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get. > In that case, sure, an 80x24 screen would be nice, but the same can be > achieved (and was, in fact) on 40x24 screens. And if we want to talk real > "real" word processing, why stop at 24 lines? Why not the requisite 60 > lines to get a full page? > > By your standard, no computer even today can perform "real" word > processing. All word processing is, is a way to electronically store and edit a form of writing, so one doesn't have to print several wrong copies to get one that is correct. The simplest of tasks done on a computer. > Lowercase? A nice amenity, but the fact again is that even on computers > that didn't have lowercase capability, people came up with effective ways > to get around that limitation. You seem to want to go back and compare > today's state of the art on computer technology of two decades ago. It's > the equivalent of saying that nobody could get from Point A to Point B in > any automobile before 1930 because they didn't have fuel injection, power > steering and AM/FM radio. Yep and that's why we have gas sucking SUV's on the road rather than small cars. > So what? People still did useful work on those machines. I wrote a > database program to store my comic book collection on a computer with 2K > of effective memory and a rubber "chiclet" keyboard using cassette tape > for storage. Are you saying this was't real? People on an ego trip with their latest Wintel boxes all have that same attitude. Back in the days of a few K memory, you had to program tight, and do just what you had to do to get the job done. By definition, my VIC20 is a computer just like a Linux/Beowolf or Cray is. > I don't know, but I suspect you'll argue that real work couldn't be > performed with computers of today because we don't have 4 terabytes of > main memory and a 100 Quadrabyte hard drive. Those are needed for the latest incarnation of Windows code bloat. Real O/S's should be minimal, like cp/m was in its day. > I have no idea what you are arguing about now. Sure, computers still have > a way to go, but how does that justify your saying that no real work could > be done on old 9-bit computers????? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org I stand and applaud your honesty on this thread. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Nov 24 20:42:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <3DF34600-0014-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from Sark at "Nov 24, 2 08:21:36 pm" Message-ID: <200211250253.SAA10594@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Also, with other keyboards, I > don't have an Open-Apple key (pronounced "Meta"). If I connect a PC USB > keyboard, the Windows key serves this purpose. I'm a fellow Mac user, but this seems a bit disgusting. :-P Can't you get an ADB-to-USB converter instead and use a *proper* keyboard like those lovely Extended Keyboard IIs? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The only abnormality is the inability to love. -- Anais Nin ---------------- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Nov 24 20:45:01 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034294@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <3DE18E6C.37D54284@compsys.to> >Tothwolf wrote: > I'm *really* leaning towards a power supply problem. I did already clean > the power supply (I did that while cleaning the rest of the system). Does > anyone know where I can find the pinout for the power supply connectors? Jerome Fine replies: I have been using both the BA23 and BA123 boxes with PDP-11 systems for about 10 years. During that time, I can't think of a time when I have a power supply problem with a BA23, but out of about 5 BA123 boxes, two failed with a power supply problem. I attempted to determine what the cause was in one case and I believe that the magic smoke escaped from one of the capacitors in the primary circuit which is used to rectify the AC. As a result, there was a total failure. I can't remember, but I think that the other problem was also a total failure. On the other hand, I also have a problem when I use more than SEVEN quad boards with the current BA123 box which still works when I also use a Sigma ESDI RQD11-EC quad Qbus controller with Hitachi DK515-78 hard disk drives of 600 MBytes each. This is most likely a timing problem that shows up as a dramatic decrease in the READ speed of the drives. But perhaps it is also related to the power supply since I don't seem to remember that the problem existed when I first started using the ESDI Hitachi DK515-78 drives and there were initially ELEVEN quad boards in the backplane. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Nov 24 20:48:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: from Sark at "Nov 24, 2 06:16:16 pm" Message-ID: <200211250258.SAA08104@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > > full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > > a good printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM > I've written a lot of papers on a Commodore 64. I used this over my PC > with Windows and Microsoft Word because it never crashed... That, and > even with my 1541, it still seemed to save faster than Word. Pocket Writer for the C64 rules. I also did a lot of my papers in Word Writer 5, which is primitive compared to the bliss that is Pocket Writer, but it had a much bigger document buffer. For Ben's benefit, Pocket Writer *did* have a 80x24 (software generated) display. So there. Heck, if you want WYSIWYG on the C64, there's geoWrite/geoPublish or PageFox. I'm still threatening to write my 'tiny vi' for the 64. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. ------------ From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Nov 24 21:09:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <200211250253.SAA10594@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <7AAF007A-0023-11D7-83CE-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 09:53 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I'm a fellow Mac user, but this seems a bit disgusting. :-P Can't you > get > an ADB-to-USB converter instead and use a *proper* keyboard like those > lovely Extended Keyboard IIs? ;-) I thought of that too. but the new PowerMacs have the "Eject" key on the keyboard, as well as volume controls. I'm not sure where I can find a cheap USB keyboard with these functions, but I do know that the older Apple keyboards didn't have it. And yes, I do miss my old Apple keyboard, I used to use the Apple Extended Keyboard II on my PowerMac 7500. It was a very good keyboard, but I still like the VT100 style of keyboard better. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Sun Nov 24 21:11:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:07 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II References: Message-ID: <004e01c29430$51c4fac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Can somebody please enlighten me as to what a 'wire carrying X volts' is? A wire completing an X volt circuit is probably better. > In other words the voltage drop along the 5V supply line (meaning > the wire that should be at 5V wrt the 0V reference) is not normally 5V. The point that was trying to be made. > Why those 3? The first and third are equivalent, so why not have > R=V/I as the third one (give the equation in all 3 forms). I think the point was that for Marines, where the rain moves horizontally instead of vertically, and is made up of lead instead of water, the equations have to be suitably simple for use in high stress situations. I like Q=CV... hope to remember to ask that friend if it was that when he returns to the US. THX John A. From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Sun Nov 24 21:17:00 2002 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Newbie enquiries Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080AEC@email1.parl.net> I did a little more looking on the web and I must say either my memory is failing me, or I have looked at so many pictures of pdp-11s that I have just confused myself. I said I remembered the programers console was a little more flash looking that the 11/04 programmers consoles I had seen to date; and well I must say the picture of the 11/60 panel I found in a PDF titled "PDP11_Handbook1979", realy reminds me of the one I used on the small PDP-11 I am trying to identify. Did this panel sytle get used on any other PDP-11 models? Its just that I remember it being an 11/0(something), but I find the 11/60 console's octal pad framing in white and the location of the 7 segment display very familliar. David From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Nov 24 23:07:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: Message-ID: <3DE1AFF7.6030405@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > What's "real word processing"? You must mean What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get. > In that case, sure, an 80x24 screen would be nice, but the same can be > achieved (and was, in fact) on 40x24 screens. And if we want to talk real > "real" word processing, why stop at 24 lines? Why not the requisite 60 > lines to get a full page? 800x600 will give you a full page. > Lowercase? A nice amenity, but the fact again is that even on computers > that didn't have lowercase capability, people came up with effective ways > to get around that limitation. You seem to want to go back and compare > today's state of the art on computer technology of two decades ago. It's > the equivalent of saying that nobody could get from Point A to Point B in > any automobile before 1930 because they didn't have fuel injection, power > steering and AM/FM radio. Ok then what way of travel is best for you? The Model-T may be fine for a sunday drive,but is a race car just as good for going to work? > > So what? People still did useful work on those machines. I wrote a > database program to store my comic book collection on a computer with 2K > of effective memory and a rubber "chiclet" keyboard using cassette tape > for storage. Are you saying this was't real? Do you still use it for surfing the web? > Maybe in your Microsoft-centric world. That goes for linux/freeBSD and others too. > I don't know, but I suspect you'll argue that real work couldn't be > performed with computers of today because we don't have 4 terabytes of > main memory and a 100 Quadrabyte hard drive. No I am stateing that there is a mininum level of computing power needed for a task,and differnt level for practical use. Right now one problem that is cropping up because of the internet, is the standards for multi-language information is really crappy. > > I have no idea what you are arguing about now. Sure, computers still have > a way to go, but how does that justify your saying that no real work could > be done on old 9-bit computers????? Well now that you bring it up, 9/18/36 bit computers are nice. I like classic computers, but I want a computer that meets my needs, and modern computers are crap, because they are mass market products, and I am the round peg. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Nov 24 23:26:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034296@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I've since pulled all the boards, installed a M7625-AA (KA655) and > > M7621 (MS650) 8MB memory card by themselves, and got a chevron prompt. > > I also got a memory error and a message stating normal startup is not > > possible. 'show memory' showed 0MB of ram installed. I tried another > > 8MB board with the same results. I also tried 3 different 16MB boards, > > but the LED display showed 'F', and of course, I didn't get a chevron > > prompt. > > You know that the over-the-top connector used on the KA630 and the KA65x > are different? I don't know exactly what failure you see if you use the > KA630 OTP with the KA65x - but you may just have found out! Which connector are you referring to? The KA630 and KA65x both use the same console bulkhead, and in turn use the same two cables that connect it. The KA630 and KA65x do of course use different memory boards, but the ribbon cable that connects them is the same. Those are the only 3 connectors that I can think of offhand, except for the Q/CD bus connectors... > It seems odd that a PSU could cause this problem and I'd be surprised if > *all* your memory boards are faulty (I've never found a dead one even > after they'd spent quite a while floating round the lab). Well, *none* of the memory boards are faulty :) For some reason, they seem to not be getting clean power, so they are not working properly. I won't know for sure until I get my scope probes, but I expect to see lots of noise on the power supply output that happens to power most of the chips on those boards. -Toth From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Nov 25 00:42:01 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: References: <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021124224104.02b49c90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > > Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently I spent 15 minutes digging in a few boxes of surplus keyboards until I had 3 I liked, paid the man a buck each, and toddled on home. Typing this on a very nice feeling Micron keyboard from the W95 era. Not quite as nice as my Apple Extended II keyboard, but feels good, works fine. From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 25 01:42:01 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker In-Reply-To: <20021124.151733.-471589.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3DE1810F.1598.46B1592@localhost> I don't really want to get into a "my dick is bigger than your dick" on the list, and I'm not about to glorify our politicians but Canada presently has the best economic performance of any of the industrialized countries according to most all economic observers. Quality of life is the indicator that really matters to the most of us, and we are rated #3 as opposed to the US's #13. If you average most individual persons income to Bill Gates' we are all fabulously weathy, and I could live like a king in the majority of countries on $38000. Exchange rates are more or less meaningless indicators unless you are buying or selling foreign goods. The US$ rate is quite nice when I sell on EPay. That also makes our products attractive to US markets and helps keep our dollars at home. Every Canadian retiree is guarenteed an inflation-indexed pension of about $980 a month. With my additional pension I do just fine. Congratulations on how well you've done in acquiring such a lucrative pension. That would put you over $10,000 a month before even taking into account the effects of averaging. Yes we do have our "wonderful socialized health care", like virtually all modern industrialized states, and unlike in the US where the "health business" managed to do a head job on the people about the dangers of "socialized" medical services. If there was a buck in it, social welfare would also be "privatized". The majority of canadians cherish their right to medical services, unhindered by financial circumstances, and woe be to any politician who would dare suggest curtailing it, despite the propaganda and bladishments inundating us from a laviscious US health industry, greedily eyeing this virgin market. Your own critics like Michael Harrington in "The New American Poverty" or Studs Turkel do a much better job than I, so I won't counterpose my own version of "what-in-hell are they doin' down there ?" I posted the message because I found it humorous that a high government official had stated (in private originally) what a good percentage of the world and most canadians, thinks about Dubya. Usually they toady to US government sensibilities Your internal affairs are your(US) own business but when it impinges on my well-being, like the current affair with Iraq (It's about oil, Jack), then Dubya's fair game. We've already had bodybags come back from Afghanistan. I don't want to see more when it's just a matter of "Big Oil" excercising US muscles for control of world oil resources. Now back to our usual computer flames. Lawrence > Careful now, a quick visit to the Canadian Government website shows the > following, (1) 7.6% unemployment (2) 3.2% inflation (3) Average family > income of 38,000 after taxes (4) Exchange rate of 1.56690 to one, in > our favor (5) Average retirement pension that is less than 10% of what > mine will be, > and of course that wonderful socialized health care. > Doesn't seem that you are in any position to criticize George W or our > Government until yours gets its act together. > Rich > loedman1@juno.com > > > Subject: OT Bush and Canada > > > > As a Canadian, I must explain to our US neighbors that the press > misunderstood the Canadian official at the Prague meetings who was > reported as saying "What a moron" in reference to George Dubya. > > > In some circles up here there is a slang phrase of approval meaning > "more on top of it", hipper. I'm sure that's what he meant. And of > course Dick Cheyny is also a veritable moron, (in Can. slang terms , of > course). > > > Lawrence > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Nov 25 01:44:25 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3DE1810F.3507.46B1560@localhost> Well the Micom 2000 came out in 1986 while the Apple was still in Woz's garage, with a 31x80 display(3 lines were control lines), and 64k memory. It used a NEC D8080 and it's Qume daisywheel printer attained 55 cps. It could do underline, subscript and superscript, and straightline graphics ( end of lines were automatically joined if you over- or under-scrolled) so you could make borders and frames. You could do cut and paste and merge separate documents and had a sort feature. I used mine to make a little sales brochure for a community paper. It could also do background communication with it's "Micronet" (NASA had 50 of them hooked up to their mainframe), interfacing with mainframes and phototypsetting equipment, something they called bi-synchronous, and asynchronous to use with modems. They also had an "OCR-B" , a bilingual optical character reader before 1981. It had math ability and it's own version of MS80 Basic. Pretty useful 8-bit I'd say. Of course marketers always reinvent the wheel like MS did with its' plug-n-play "breakthru". Lawrence > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > > Useful in what context? I wrote nearly every paper for high school > > and > > college, plus a humor column [1] on an 8-bit computer [2], and I had a > > 2nd cousin (Mom's cousin) that wrote a few books on an 8-bit computer > > [3]. Okay, you might not be able to effectively run more than one > > application at a time, but that might not be such a *bad* thing, if > > you want to get work done 8-) > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, full > keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) a good > printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM PC had all > the above features, but most 8 bit systems like S100 bus,apple,C64 Coco > did not as a base system. Sadly the PC still does not have a real OS,but > then I am a OS/9 fan. > > Right now modern machines require at least 67108864* bytes of memory to > run. What will it be in 10 years from now. The first machine I used had > 4096 words of memory.(* really more but my calculator can't display 256 > * 1024 * 1024.) Somehow don't see the new computers a better machine for > word processing, than the 8 bitters. For getting work done I think we > took a wrong turn in computer design. Has anybody done a real > feature/function compare of software with the 8/16/32 and now 64 bit > machines? Ben All computers wait at same speed. > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From spc at conman.org Mon Nov 25 02:12:00 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE157F2.3080902@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 24, 2002 03:51:30 PM Message-ID: <200211250813.DAA02108@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great ben franchuk once stated: > > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > Useful in what context? I wrote nearly every paper for high school and > > college, plus a humor column [1] on an 8-bit computer [2], and I had a 2nd > > cousin (Mom's cousin) that wrote a few books on an 8-bit computer [3]. > > Okay, you might not be able to effectively run more than one application at > > a time, but that might not be such a *bad* thing, if you want to get work > > done 8-) > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > a good printer and at least 32k of memory, and floppy disks. The IBM > PC had all the above features, but most 8 bit systems like S100 > bus,apple,C64 Coco did not as a base system. Sadly the PC still does > not have a real OS,but then I am a OS/9 fan. Ah well ... I was able to write papers and columns on a 32x16 upper case display (okay, I had 64K RAM and a floppy drive) but hey, if you say so ... And I consider Linux to be close enough to a real OS for government work. > Right now modern machines require at least 67108864* bytes of memory to > run. Odd, I only have 33,554,432 bytes in my main development machine. My webserver has 20,975,616 bytes (and it handles email as well). > What will it be in 10 years from now. The first machine I used had > 4096 words of memory.(* really more but my calculator can't display 256 > * 1024 * 1024.) Somehow don't see the new computers a better machine for > word processing, than the 8 bitters. For getting work done I think > we took a wrong turn in computer design. Has anybody done a real > feature/function compare of software with the 8/16/32 and now 64 bit > machines? Depends upon what you do. For word processing, yes, what we have is a bit overkill, but now a days I can keep an editor, my email client and a web browser going. Email because I'm addicted, and the web browser so I can do research using Google. While you can get an IP stack for the C-64, TCP is a bit of a heavy-weight protocol and I'm not sure if you can have that, and a browser (even text based) in 64K of RAM. It was supposedly said that LISP didn't get interesting until you had a megabyte of memory and that's the second oldest language there is ... > Ben > All computers wait at same speed. I thought all user interfaces run at 9600 bps, reguardless of speed ... -spc (Seems that way sometimes ... ) From spc at conman.org Mon Nov 25 02:14:23 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Nov 24, 2002 11:18:08 PM Message-ID: <200211250816.DAA02130@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > > That has _nothing_ to do with the processor bus width! No, but a good keyboard is worth its weight in gold. At least to this touch typist. -spc (I will *only* use IBM AT or PS/2 keyboards and buy them every chance I get ... ) From spc at conman.org Mon Nov 25 02:17:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <39213F96-0004-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Sark" at Nov 24, 2002 06:26:56 PM Message-ID: <200211250818.DAA02143@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sark once stated: > > Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently > tracking down old, broken keyboards from terminals, etc. to get keytops > and switches from, and I am going to canniballize a cheap PC USB > keyboard for it's encoder chip and associated circuitry. Basically, I'm > going to build a new key matrix from real switches, to replace that > membrane and rubber disc thing modern keyboards use. I've done stuff > like this before, rewiring a very old PC keyboard to replace a broken > TRS-80 Color Computer 3 keyboard. With any luck, I'll have something > that won't wear out nearly as fast as others, and be comfortable to > type on as well. The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I > don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, as > I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact > bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? IBM AT or PS/2 keyboards. The AT has a slightly better tactile feel, but the PS/2 is easier to find and has separate editing and numeric keypad. And they're nearly indistructable. -spc (I've wore out cheaper keyboards ... ) From spc at conman.org Mon Nov 25 02:19:01 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Nov 24, 2002 07:48:34 PM Message-ID: <200211250820.DAA02160@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Patrick Finnegan once stated: > > I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find > yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into the PS/2 > keyboard port on the back of your computer? Or are you unlucky enough to > have a machine that doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard connection? Sure, it's > not the same as the keyboard on, say, and ADM-3A, but it's 'more > authentic' than modern keyboards. I've found a PS/2 keyboard with the older style DIN connector. Granted, it's one out of maybe 6 or 7 PS/2 keyboards I currently have, but I have seen them. -spc (And PS/2 to DIN adaptors are still available ...) From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Nov 25 05:08:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Which connector are you referring to? The KA630 and KA65x both use the >same console bulkhead, and in turn use the same two cables that connect >it. The KA630 and KA65x do of course use different memory boards, but the >ribbon cable that connects them is the same. Those are the only 3 >connectors that I can think of offhand, except for the Q/CD bus >connectors... The over-the-top connector in question is the one used to connect the memory cards to the CPU; sometimes also called the PMI connector. The KA630 one and the KA650 one(s) are different. The KA630 one does have some issue in a KA650 system, but I don't know exactly what the problem is. IIRC the KA630 one has three connectors (two mem boards max) so a four connector one (three memory boards) would be a KA65x one. (I don't have part numbers and a quick google didn't help). This may, of course, have nothing to do with your actual problem. >Well, *none* of the memory boards are faulty :) OK - if you know they work, that's different. >For some reason, they seem to not be getting clean power, so they are not >working properly. I won't know for sure until I get my scope probes, but I >expect to see lots of noise on the power supply output that happens to >power most of the chips on those boards. Antonio From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Nov 25 07:27:01 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia In-Reply-To: <200211241913.OAA00114@conman.org> References: from "Tony Duell" at Nov 24, 2002 06:45:09 PM Message-ID: <3DE233E2.22515.3E20887C@localhost> > > > What is the 8089 used for? Some sort of DMA or IO controller? > > It was called an I/O processor. It was a _very_ fancy DMA controller -- > > more like a processor designed for moving data around, checking status > > bits, and so on. > Did you program it by writing to registers (using the 80x86 IN/OUT > instruction) or did it work like the 80x87, which extended the instruction > set? The 8089 IOP, can be seen (as a lot of people prefer) of as a smart DMA controller for usual ways of DMA transfer which is able to follow programmed instruction sequences stored in (main-) memory. I rather prefer to see it as a very specialized processor. In some way it is quite similar to a CDP 1802. A bit weired but quite usefull. Basicly capable of doing general purpose work, but with a very restricted and focused on data transfer. For example are the DMA operations part of the instruction set - rather than a seperate unit. Also, the IOP may execute two programms at the same time. IOP Programms can consist just of a setup for DMA operation, or be quite sophisticated drivers for programmed IO, or copmbinations thereof. For example could the IOP read a block from a floppy disk via DMA and then do things like code translation before it signals the end of the operation to the main CPU. Likely for some interfaces, lets use a quite classic example, connecting a baudot tty. In a CPU/IOP system the CPU would just prepare the ASCII data to be sent in a memory block and build a message block which names the operation (basicly addressing the device driver programm), points to the data, and tells how the result ist to be handled. Then an 'attention' signal is issued and the IOP starts to handle the IO. From the IOPs view this signal is an interupt. Now the IOP jumps to the selected programm, and starts to output each byte ... after translating it to the according Baudot sequence. When done, an interupt for the CPU may be generated. Such operations can be chained from the CPU, so you could first let the interface be initialized and then a block of date be sent.... The possibilities are wide open. Gruss H. BTW: I found a Company in INDIA ( Hiya John ) who sell a traing kit which can have a 8089 ... http://www.dynalogindia.com/Products/MF-86-88/Datasheets/mf8688.PDF Achtung, their web site works only with IE It' also important that the 8089 can be integrated into an 8086 system with almost no glue logic. Bus synchronisation is done via RQ/GT. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE1AFF7.6030405@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > 800x600 will give you a full page. If you want to type with a tiny little font that looks crappy, sure. > Ok then what way of travel is best for you? The Model-T may be fine > for a sunday drive,but is a race car just as good for going to work? Yes, but in either case, it's still driving, and they still get you to work. And the race car won't get you there any faster if you take the speed laws at all seriously. > > So what? People still did useful work on those machines. I wrote a > > database program to store my comic book collection on a computer with 2K > > of effective memory and a rubber "chiclet" keyboard using cassette tape > > for storage. Are you saying this was't real? > > Do you still use it for surfing the web? No, but I could. It's a computer. It can be made to do such things. > > I don't know, but I suspect you'll argue that real work couldn't be > > performed with computers of today because we don't have 4 terabytes of > > main memory and a 100 Quadrabyte hard drive. > > No I am stateing that there is a mininum level of computing power > needed for a task,and differnt level for practical use. Right now And I'm stating that you're misguided. It depends on your definition of "practical", which for you seems to be based on a sliding window. By your standards, computers will never be useful for "practical use". > one problem that is cropping up because of the internet, is the > standards for multi-language information is really crappy. That's a standard. It has nothing really to do with whether a computer is practical or not for a given task. What's with the non-sequitur? > Well now that you bring it up, 9/18/36 bit computers are nice. > I like classic computers, but I want a computer that meets my > needs, and modern computers are crap, because they are mass market > products, and I am the round peg. In that case, I suggest you use an old 8-bit computer for all your work. They are much simpler and easier to use. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Nov 25 08:11:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <200211250813.DAA02108@conman.org> from Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner at "Nov 25, 2 03:13:32 am" Message-ID: <200211251421.GAA06750@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Depends upon what you do. For word processing, yes, what we have is a bit > overkill, but now a days I can keep an editor, my email client and a web > browser going. Email because I'm addicted, and the web browser so I can do > research using Google. While you can get an IP stack for the C-64, TCP is a > bit of a heavy-weight protocol and I'm not sure if you can have that, and a > browser (even text based) in 64K of RAM. Who says you need TCP/IP in the C64 to do web browsing? *innocent smile* http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/hl/ Strictly speaking, this is cheating, but it works. I demonstrated this with a Lantronix UDS-10 Ethernet-to-serial interface at VCF5. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Die, v.: To stop sinning suddenly. -- Elbert Hubbard ----------------------- From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Nov 25 08:33:01 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Excellent. If you can use the right tools, do so. But it is _possible_ to >do SMD rework using a normal (good) soldering iron. I'll ask. But now I'm convinced the board has some hope of living, I hesitate to address it myself... >Are there any marking at all. You mentioned an orange band(s). How many? One. I shouldn't have said "band", it's really the whole outside of the component except the contacts at either end. It looks way too wide to be a color-code band. >Wait a second. The meter is 20kOhm/V right. I have no idea what range >you're using, but lets say it's a 10V range. So the meter's resistance is >200k. Yep, 0-15V range. >Now, it's a consequence of Thevenin's (?spel) theorem that the output >impedance of a potential divider is the given by the 2 resistors in >parallel. Here you'vr got 11500 Ohms and 61900 ohms. The equivalent >resistance of those in paralle is 9.7k. So the meter is 20 times as high >an impedance. That would give approximately a 5% error. Not that bad. Well, true if I'm right about the resistor values being 11.5k/61.9k. If they are 10 times higher, then I'm sunk. >I wouldn't. For one thing, desoldering SMD parts risks damaging the PCB >and even more so the component (most manufacturers recomend against >reusing desoldered SMD parts). After desoldering the value might not he >right anyway. For another, you don't know that all the capacitors on that >board should be the same value. True even with the proper (hot-air) desoldering tools? But suits my inclination anyway, except that I *would* like to know what that cap. is supposed to be. - Mark From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Nov 25 08:48:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. Message-ID: IIRC, not many 8 bit CP/M computers were marketed as "game machines." Certainly not all the Osbornes, Kaypros, Morrows, Televideos, etc., etc. -----Original Message----- From: ben franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 5:40 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 8 bit vs other Computers. But 99% of all 8 bit machines in the 1980's were marketed as game machines. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Nov 25 09:12:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <200211250820.DAA02160@conman.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Patrick Finnegan once stated: > > > > I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find > > yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into the PS/2 > > keyboard port on the back of your computer? Or are you unlucky enough to > > have a machine that doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard connection? Sure, it's > > not the same as the keyboard on, say, and ADM-3A, but it's 'more > > authentic' than modern keyboards. > > I've found a PS/2 keyboard with the older style DIN connector. Granted, > it's one out of maybe 6 or 7 PS/2 keyboards I currently have, but I have > seen them. There are "AT"-style cables for the early RS/6000 keyboards with detachable cables. I have a couple of them. Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Nov 25 09:44:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > >Excellent. If you can use the right tools, do so. But it is _possible_ to > >do SMD rework using a normal (good) soldering iron. > > I'll ask. But now I'm convinced the board has some hope of living, I > hesitate to address it myself... > > >Are there any marking at all. You mentioned an orange band(s). How many? > > One. I shouldn't have said "band", it's really the whole outside of the > component except the contacts at either end. It looks way too wide to be a > color-code band. > > >Wait a second. The meter is 20kOhm/V right. I have no idea what range > >you're using, but lets say it's a 10V range. So the meter's resistance is > >200k. > > Yep, 0-15V range. > > >Now, it's a consequence of Thevenin's (?spel) theorem that the output > >impedance of a potential divider is the given by the 2 resistors in > >parallel. Here you'vr got 11500 Ohms and 61900 ohms. The equivalent > >resistance of those in paralle is 9.7k. So the meter is 20 times as high > >an impedance. That would give approximately a 5% error. Not that bad. > > Well, true if I'm right about the resistor values being 11.5k/61.9k. If > they are 10 times higher, then I'm sunk. > > >I wouldn't. For one thing, desoldering SMD parts risks damaging the PCB > >and even more so the component (most manufacturers recomend against > >reusing desoldered SMD parts). After desoldering the value might not he > >right anyway. For another, you don't know that all the capacitors on that > >board should be the same value. > > True even with the proper (hot-air) desoldering tools? But suits my > inclination anyway, except that I *would* like to know what that cap. is > supposed to be. > - Mark > > > Actually a modified soldering iron is less harmful to PCBs (for small parts) than a hot air tool (which may melt adjacant connectors etc) What I have done for removing SMD caps is to take a Weller controlled temp iron tip, hacksaw off the tip, leaving a blunt copper end. Next I tap the end of the tip with a 4-40 tap. Now I take some 1/32 copper sheet, and bend it into a 'U' shaped piece that fits loosely over the SMD part, contacting both solder lands. With this tip in the Weller iron, and adequate flux and solder to make good thermal contact with the part and card, its easy to remove the part. The most important thing to remember is to put _0_ force on the circuit card when hot, this is what lifts pads (causing bad words to be said). Both ends of the solder holding the part should be _completely_ melted before attempting to remove the part... A (good) tantalum capacitor will withstand soldering temperatures (the SMD ones can even be wave soldered) but I wouldn't reuse SMD parts on general principles. BTW of the millions of SMD parts that we have used in the last few years, I dont think we have ever seen a field failure of a resistor ( other than mechanical damage from rough cicuit card handling or elecrical overload from abuse or other component failure) Passives much more likely to fail are: 1. Aluminum electrolytic capacitors (in your power supply...) 2. Tantalum electrolytic capacitors 3. Ceramic high value capacitors (bypass) Peter Wallace From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Nov 25 10:28:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: Message-ID: <3DE24F8D.8030003@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > In that case, I suggest you use an old 8-bit computer for all your work. > They are much simpler and easier to use. True, and cheap to build with lots of doc's.If I everbuild something it would a OS/9 system. How ever like 12 bits better, thus I am building my own FPGA cpu. Still would like a Papertape reader/punch as mas storage. For looks gada have da blinking lights. Ben. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Nov 25 10:43:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <006c01c294a1$e6c04140$a150ef42@oemcomputer> Got lucky this weekend at the market and picked up the following: 1. Sun ext. cd-rom drive model X559A-ST had empty caddy in it. 2. Panasonic Portable Data Terminal model KX-D4911 not tested yet. 3. Some Game gear cartridges. 4. hp 82143A printer in the box all the paperwork and manual plus 3 rolls of paper for it. 5. Printer adapter called a G-Wiz by Supra Corp. 6. A box full of books was given to me for the collection. 7. COMPUTERS: The Inside Story a 1000 piece puzzle set. 8. OT: A Viewsonic 14" flat panel for $17.50 at auction (works great). 9. OT: A Dell Latitude XPi laptop and ethernet docking station both for $10 at local thrift. Laptop works but battery is dead. 10. Another T1000 in a carrying case with adapter but dead battery. That was part of the haul for the weekend. From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Nov 25 10:46:01 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: The PDQ8 Message-ID: No, that's not a typo. I know not everyone reads Slashdot, so I thought I'd share it since no one else has posted it yet: There's a guy working on creating a FPGA verions of a PDP-8. Does anyone know anything about this? Is Andrew Grillet on this list? There's more information at his web site: http://www.grillet.co.uk/pdq8/index.html Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jim at jkearney.com Mon Nov 25 11:48:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: The PDQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another guy has already done this - http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Finnegan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:50:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: The PDQ8 > No, that's not a typo. I know not everyone reads Slashdot, so I > thought > I'd share it since no one else has posted it yet: > > There's a guy working on creating a FPGA verions of a PDP-8. Does > anyone > know anything about this? Is Andrew Grillet on this list? There's > more > information at his web site: http://www.grillet.co.uk/pdq8/index.html > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 25 12:15:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline Message-ID: <3DE2690A.2C363528@rain.org> There used to be a comprehensive timeline of computers available online, but I have been unable to find it. It might have been put out by Hans Pufal, but I'm not sure. Anyone have a link to such a list? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Nov 25 12:36:01 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <3DE2690A.2C363528@rain.org> Message-ID: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Ken Polsson has the best one I've found at: http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/ Only the first part (through 1976) is free online but for a reasonable fee you can subscribe to the rest of the timeline. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:17 AM To: ClassicCmp Subject: Computer Timeline There used to be a comprehensive timeline of computers available online, but I have been unable to find it. It might have been put out by Hans Pufal, but I'm not sure. Anyone have a link to such a list? From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Nov 25 12:44:00 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: The PDQ8 Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFA2@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Another guy has already done this - http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ There's already a link to this one on one of the pages, plus a link to http://www.jaywalk.co.uk/pdp8/ (which I had not seen before). Antonio From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 25 14:00:01 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 Model 31 available in Australia Message-ID: <200211252001.MAA19446@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Fri, 22 Nov 2002, ben franchuk wrote: > >> I did not say General purpose computing can't be done, just that it is a >> very small amount of memory for most user programs. It is really hard >> work to have a useful programs written on the small 8 bit machines, and >> fit in 32k or 48k of memory incuding the OS. > >I find it rather odd that such a comment would be made in the face of tens >of thousands of applications software and games that were developed on >dozens of 8-bit computer platforms having anywhere from 4K to 64K of main >RAM where the operating system and application shared that memory space. > >? > ---snip--- Hi The only thing I miss on a 8 bit machine is the lack of space for large data sets. I've never ran out of code space in my 15 year ( when I was doing embedded stuff ). Then I could never understand what happened to all the space that most of today's compilers use. I've always used a combination of assembly and Forth for embedded stuff. I had to work with a few applications written by others that were in C and found it very difficult to stay within RAM limits for even simple applications. When I first saw languages like SmalTalk, looking at the description, I thought that finally someone was doing something right. They talked about the efficiency of reuse and such ( concepts that are natural to Forth ). Then I tried it and found that it was more bloated than the C programs I was dealing with. The other thing that bothers me is that today we have computers that can run several thousands of times faster than an 8080 IMSAI. Still, it takes 5 to 10 minutes to boot that machine. My IMSAI boots faster than I can reach from the reset button to the keyboard. I'm told that is is because the machine has to figure out what the I/O looks like on each boot ( of course, MS rejected OpenBoot for PCI boards that could have improved the boot time ). I find that applications written for these new and more powerful computers that have been doubling in capabilities every year are becoming garbaged up at a rate that is faster than the computer get better. I doubt there is anyone that works for MS that even knows if 50% of the software that they release is even being usefully run under any condition ( maybe even 80% ). I believe that there complexity will eventually bring them to the point that even hiring the entire graduating class of computer science students will not fix. Just my ramblings Dwight From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Nov 25 14:05:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:18:08 GMT." Message-ID: <200211250925.JAA09429@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said; > > > > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > > > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > > I also disagree with the display size issue. I did a lot of word > processing on my TRS-80 model 1 (with lowercase mod)> It has a 64*16 > display. Me too. And my Tatung Einstein with 80 column display card and running ZCPR3 qualified on all counts. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 25 14:24:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. Message-ID: <200211252025.MAA19460@clulw009.amd.com> Hi One thing to reflect on. In my hand, right now, is a small board with three major parts and a total of six IC's. I have at home, an IMSAI with 64K of RAM. This board has 128K RAM, 128K FLASH and a processor that runs at a clock speed that is 20 times as fast. The board was made in '96. In retrospect, I don't think software has made even one tenth that improvement ( most is not as useful ). Just more thoughts Dwight From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Nov 25 14:39:01 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. Message-ID: I did a lot of productive work on an Osborne I, with a 52-character wide display, but it was a bit of a PITA. Personally, I like a display that can show 60 characters, as that corresponds to a typewritten line with the margins I use. On an 80-column display, I get too much wasted space on the right. 64-columns is a good width, and is what I use on my HP 200LX palmtop (which can display 80x25, 64x18 and 40x16). OTOH, the 104-character wide mode on the Osborne (with an external monitor, of course) was useful for SuperCalc spreadsheets. -----Original Message----- From: Stan Barr [mailto:stanb@dial.pipex.com] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:25 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 8 bit vs other Computers. Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said; > > > > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > > > > For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > > I also disagree with the display size issue. I did a lot of word > processing on my TRS-80 model 1 (with lowercase mod)> It has a 64*16 > display. Me too. And my Tatung Einstein with 80 column display card and running ZCPR3 qualified on all counts. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Nov 25 15:27:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Zilog System 8000 guts in Oregon Message-ID: <1ac.c8f7cc2.2b13f00e@aol.com> Going through my storage locker I ran across the card cage with cards and some connecting cables from a Z8000 system. I am interested in selling this. So I am offering it to the list first before it goes to ePay. If anyone is interested please contact me for information or offers at innfosale@aol.com About 10 cards in the cardcage with backplane. I can't get to it to identify them at the moment. Zilog 1982 copyright on the backplane. The original looked a lot like the 8000 system 31 in Australia about 8 years ago. This was salvaged from my scrapper partner at the time and has been in storage since. It is now in Astoria, Oregon 97103, USA. I can quote shipping prices. Paxton From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Nov 25 15:34:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Tektronix DC100 tapes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021125163138.0fa7a464@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:17 PM 11/21/02 -0800, you wrote: >Did any Tektronix equipment use tapes that are compatible with HP DC100 >tapes? I found a couple of unused tapes that have a Tektronix label but no >part number that I can see. They look pretty much the same as an HP DC100 >tape. I suppose I could just try them in an HP 2645A I picked up after I >clean up the tape units, but it would be nice to know whether or not they >really should work first. Yeah, the Tektronix 4041 computer and DAS 9100 (modular pattern generator/logic analyzer) both used DC 100 type tapes. I suspect other Tektronix equipment used the same tape but that's the only ones that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not certain that the tapes are compatible but they look the same and I suspect they'd work if you reformat them in the HP. I've only found about 2 Tektronix tapes so I've never tried to use one in a HP. > >Also, anyone use HP 9144 tape drives, or have one they are not using? I >found a couple of unused tapes for those units. Why? The xxxxxSC tapes only hold 15mbs and the xxxxxLC tapes only hold 60 Mb. The 9146 is interesting. It has both a tape drive and a hard drive and you can back up the disk to tape (and the reverse?) with no other equipment attached. Joe > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Nov 25 15:51:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Got a few goodies today at thrifts and the warehouse Message-ID: <00f301c294cd$09a351e0$a150ef42@oemcomputer> While going through the warehouse today a came across a 59 page document titled OSI Challenger SYSTEM PROSPECTUS. It sold for $1 and looks like it was printed before May of 1977. It has allot of technical information in it. At a local thrift picked up a Commodore Minuteman MM3S calculator with square root key for 99 cents. Good shape (looks) but not tested yet. At another place got a Monteverdi TV Sports 825 model E825A with one controller for it. They had two controllers there for $2.99 each but one was broken into pieces, so I left it. Also there was no power supply or instructions with it. Also at the warehouse I picked up a TI2500 in the box that I had there and a Laser 50 PC that was billed as a educational computer and had 6 modes you could work in. It's missing the battery cover on the back. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 25 15:56:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT420 maintenance print set. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021123083224.01abcee0@ubanproductions.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021125155818.01b9f730@ubanproductions.com> Ops, I meant to say that I am looking for a vt420 print set, not vt440 (if that even exists). --tnx --tom At 08:34 AM 11/23/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > >I am looking for engineering drawings and/or maintenance manual for >a DEC VT440 terminal. A copy or scan would be fine. > >--tnx >--tom > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Nov 25 16:09:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT420 maintenance print set. In-Reply-To: from "Tom Uban" at Nov 25, 2002 03:59:24 PM Message-ID: <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> > Ops, I meant to say that I am looking for a vt420 print set, not vt440 (if > that even exists). > > --tnx > --tom As far as I know, there isn't such a beast as a VT440 (to bad, it would probably have been a very nice terminal). As for finding any kind of a print set, good luck, the VT420's are new enough that DEC didn't seem to release much in the way of doc's. Zane From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 25 16:17:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: <200211252025.MAA19460@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, I happened upon one of these beauts through one of those 'oh, you collect old computers, come back next week and I'll have something' type deals. This is a Tektronix 310A portable tube scope and just too well made to ever scrap, IMHO. For example it opens up like a car hood to give access to the entire centerline of the box, with components on both sides of the hinge. The reason Why I opened it is that it reliably blows fuses on power-on. All looks perfect, no burn marks or damage anywhere, just a little dust. My thinking is that its the old electrolytic capacitor thing. There are about 5 large (2"x3") and more smaller ones present. Do I just cut the leads and test-form them to see if they hold a charge or is there some other obvious thing to start with? I probably shouldn't ask before the holidays, but it might be worth a try. John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 25 16:22:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT420 maintenance print set. In-Reply-To: <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021125162153.03507cc0@ubanproductions.com> At 02:10 PM 11/25/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > Ops, I meant to say that I am looking for a vt420 print set, not vt440 (if > > that even exists). > > > > --tnx > > --tom > >As far as I know, there isn't such a beast as a VT440 (to bad, it would >probably have been a very nice terminal). > >As for finding any kind of a print set, good luck, the VT420's are new >enough that DEC didn't seem to release much in the way of doc's. Hmm. I found a service manual here: http://www.vt100.net/docs/vt420-ps/ Which references additional documentation, mainly a "VT420 Family Field Maintenance Print Set", part number MP-02949-01. --tom > Zane From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Nov 25 16:33:01 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT420 maintenance print set. In-Reply-To: <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3DE2A56A.90006@arrl.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Ops, I meant to say that I am looking for a vt420 print set, not vt440 (if >>that even exists). >> >>--tnx >>--tom > > > As far as I know, there isn't such a beast as a VT440 (to bad, it would > probably have been a very nice terminal). > > As for finding any kind of a print set, good luck, the VT420's are new > enough that DEC didn't seem to release much in the way of doc's. > > Zane > My VT420 user guide (which is light on tech info) does reference a VT420 Service guide, p/n EK-VT420-PS, but no printsets. Perhaps included in the service guide. -nick From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 25 16:47:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > My thinking is that its the old electrolytic capacitor thing. > There are about 5 large (2"x3") and more smaller ones > present. Do I just cut the leads and test-form them to see > if they hold a charge or is there some other obvious thing > to start with? Tek transformers fail, so start there. I would not worry about the caps, although do not rule them out completely. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Nov 25 16:49:00 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT420 maintenance print set. In-Reply-To: <3DE2A56A.90006@arrl.net> References: <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> <200211252210.gAPMATO10114@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021125164852.01a7a290@ubanproductions.com> At 04:34 PM 11/25/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>Ops, I meant to say that I am looking for a vt420 print set, not vt440 (if >>>that even exists). >>> >>>--tnx >>>--tom >> >>As far as I know, there isn't such a beast as a VT440 (to bad, it would >>probably have been a very nice terminal). >>As for finding any kind of a print set, good luck, the VT420's are new >>enough that DEC didn't seem to release much in the way of doc's. >> Zane >My VT420 user guide (which is light on tech info) does reference >a VT420 Service guide, p/n EK-VT420-PS, but no printsets. >Perhaps included in the service guide. Right. The service guide you see the reference to is available at: http://www.vt100.net/docs/vt420-ps/ That service guide references the Family Maintenance Print Set, p/n MP-02949-01, so I guess it exists, I just need to find a copy or scan. --tom >-nick > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Nov 25 17:23:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Got a few goodies today at thrifts and the warehouse Message-ID: <99.304d5636.2b140b4d@aol.com> In a message dated 11/25/2002 4:54:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrkeys@concentric.net writes: << Also at the warehouse I picked up a TI2500 in the box that I had there and a Laser 50 PC that was billed as a educational computer and had 6 modes you could work in. It's missing the battery cover on the back. >> I got one of those with carrying case and everything. Looks like a tandy 100 type computer. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Nov 25 18:01:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: scored OS/2 2.1! Message-ID: <1141.166.102.221.160.1038268980.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> The thrift store finally marked it down to something reasonable (%50 off of $1.99-- took 'em six or eight weeks to get here from $45.00. Bah!), so I picked up an OS/2 3.5" upgrade. I was pretty excited to get it, I've always wanted to try OS/2, but it won't install. Looks like the media's crapped out, it looks cloudy in places, like something's growing on it. : ( I don't suppose anyone knows if IBM has a replacement program? I'd really like to run it on my P70. Assuming I can find a set of SIMMS for it- - the previous owner must've thought they were made of gold the way he ripped up the sockets getting 'em out. :( Bob From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 25 18:20:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021126004831.GB31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 05:48:56PM -0500: > > My thinking is that its the old electrolytic capacitor thing. > > There are about 5 large (2"x3") and more smaller ones > > present. Do I just cut the leads and test-form them to see > > if they hold a charge or is there some other obvious thing > > to start with? > > Tek transformers fail, so start there. I would not worry about the caps, > although do not rule them out completely. Is transformer failure a rare occurance in a Tek 'scope, and is it usually caused by some unusual catastrophic failure in the power supply? I've noticed the the fuse in my "new" 585 is blown, but haven't had a chance to check the 'scope out yet. BTW, does anyone know if the transformers in the 531 and 585 are interchangeable? Alas, Tektronix doesn't honor its lifetime guarantee on the power transformers. Sounds like fraud to me, but they probably have some high-priced lawyers protecting them from false advertising lawsuits. Blasted biz'droids... [mumble, grumble] -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 25 18:29:01 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200211252025.MAA19460@clulw009.amd.com> <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021126005813.GC31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 05:18:49PM -0500: > I happened upon one of these beauts through one of those > 'oh, you collect old computers, come back next week and > I'll have something' type deals. This is a Tektronix 310A Congratulations on the nice find! Do you have a variac, or can you get your hands on a variac, to use in testing the scope by bringing it up the mains voltage slowly? > portable tube scope and just too well made to ever scrap, Yes, only their newer scopes are good canditates for the scrap heap... > IMHO. For example it opens up like a car hood to give > access to the entire centerline of the box, with components > on both sides of the hinge. The reason Why I opened it is > that it reliably blows fuses on power-on. All looks perfect, > no burn marks or damage anywhere, just a little dust. Once you ascertain that the transformer isn't shorted out, and that none of the the transformer's secondaries are connected to a short circuit, use a variac, if you have one, to bring up the voltage slowly; if not, you try the series light-bulb trick, where you place a light-bulb of a suitable wattage in series with the plug to the 'scope. > I probably shouldn't ask before the holidays, > but it might be worth a try. Who in their right mind wouldn't be interested in a posting pertaining to a vintage Tek 'scope at any time of the year? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:32:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Nov 24, 2 08:49:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/a127d728/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:34:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Nov 24, 2 07:48:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1132 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/32f6701a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:35:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3DE16338.5080502@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 24, 2 04:39:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/7790608b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:37:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <20021125004608.G1222@MissSophie> from "Jochen Kunz" at Nov 25, 2 00:46:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3012 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/b1c8aea7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:39:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:08 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <004e01c29430$51c4fac0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Nov 24, 2 10:11:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1635 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/c606e355/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:41:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Nov 25, 2 08:33:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/d9240aa2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 18:44:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <20021126004831.GB31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 25, 2 07:48:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1862 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/642ef375/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Nov 25 18:45:56 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. Message-ID: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> So what? People still did useful work on those machines. I wrote a >> database program to store my comic book collection on a computer with 2K >> of effective memory and a rubber "chiclet" keyboard using cassette tape >> for storage. Are you saying this was't real? > >One of my related interests is programmable calculators (which are really >computers IMHO -- or at least I've love to see a sane definition which >excludes them). I've been using an HP65 (100 program steps, 10 registers >(variables)), an HP67 (224 progam steps, 26 variables), and so on. And >from the published software I have for these machines, I'll bet that >'real work' was done using them. > >-tony > > Oh no! Tony has brought 4 bit computers into the world of being useful. We are just lucky that one can't make a useful 0 bit computer. Dwight From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Nov 25 18:58:00 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A manual for your oscilloscope can be found at: www.w7fg.com for $25 bux. I also second Tony Duell that it is unlikely the power transformer would have failed, especially in such a small and lightly-loaded device. But locating and removing the B+ secondary leads from the rectifier components (probably selenum in that vintage of a scope) will begin to isolate the problem. Also be very aware that shorted and/or arcing selenium rectifiers produce copious amounts of deadly (and stinky) hydrogen sulfide gas. (The same gas that makes rotten eggs so odiferous) Be thankful that it's a catasrophic, fuse-blowing-instantly type of fault - which will have a definite unmistakable cause and a hopefully easy remedy. But isolate the HV leads first, then the filament leads if the fuse still blows. Also verify that the proper value fuse is installed. I chased my tail all over the workbench trying to find the 'problem' in a Hewlett Packard VHF signal generator, only to realize that the fuse holder was clearly marked "4A" and someone had put a 1-1/2A fuse in it, which, of course, blew as soon as the voltage hit the tubes - and which I dutifully kept replacing with one of the same value as the blown one as I methodically and carefully 'troubleshot' the damn thing. D'OH!!!! Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Mon Nov 25 19:03:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Ken Polsson has the best one I've found at: > http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/ > > Only the first part (through 1976) is free online but for a reasonable > fee you can subscribe to the rest of the timeline. It used to be free in it's entirety. I wonder when he started charging to read all of it? At any rate, it's an interesting revenue stream :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From n4fs at monmouth.com Mon Nov 25 19:10:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <00a701c294e8$67608ee0$086dbd18@n4fs> In the real early 60's I did build a simple machine that only added. It essentially consisted of discrete power transistors connected in cascading flip-flops. Each flip- flop went to a light on the front panel. The input device was a rotary telephone dial. It sure dazzled my friends and teachers at school. The input was in decimal form via the dial and the output had to be interpreted as it was in binary. My first experience with computers, if you can call it that. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > Oh no! > Tony has brought 4 bit computers into the world of being > useful. We are just lucky that one can't make a useful > 0 bit computer. > Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 19:16:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Nov 25, 2 07:59:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2486 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/7c3ba919/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 25 19:23:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Nov 25, 2 04:42:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 962 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021125/6a36ad2e/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 25 19:26:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Got a few goodies today at thrifts and the warehouse In-Reply-To: <00f301c294cd$09a351e0$a150ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20021126012821.77055.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > At a local thrift picked up a Commodore Minuteman MM3S calculator with > square root key for 99 cents. Good shape (looks) but not tested yet.\ I picked up a MM3 a long time ago (no sq rt) and found the C= adapter for it only recently. Unfortunately, the keyboard seems to be dirty. Most keys don't produce results when pressed. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Nov 25 19:54:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Nov 25, 2 11:43:26 pm" Message-ID: <200211260205.SAA08262@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > For waht machine? 80*24 display cards were _very_ common for the Apple > ][. I've seen them for the CoCo, and for the Tatung Einstein. I've seen a > design for one for the C64. I have two such cards (Batteries Included BI-80) which are based on the 6845 IIRC. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Nov 25 20:05:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3435.4.20.168.135.1038276383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > One of my related interests is programmable calculators (which are > really computers IMHO -- or at least I've love to see a sane > definition which excludes them). I've been using an HP65 (100 program > steps, 10 registers (variables)), an HP67 (224 progam steps, 26 > variables), and so on. Dwight wrote: > Oh no! > Tony has brought 4 bit computers into the world of being > useful. Actually, all HP handheld calculators made before 1986 used 56-bit words, and 10-bit instructions. The HP-01 watch was similar but used a 48-bit word. > We are just lucky that one can't make a useful 0 bit computer. Does an analog computer count as being a 0-bit computer, since it doesn't have any bits? :-) Were there any interesting 1-bit computers other than the Motorola MC14500B Industrial Control Unit? From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Nov 25 20:17:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Which connector are you referring to? The KA630 and KA65x both use the > > same console bulkhead, and in turn use the same two cables that > > connect it. The KA630 and KA65x do of course use different memory > > boards, but the ribbon cable that connects them is the same. Those are > > the only 3 connectors that I can think of offhand, except for the Q/CD > > bus connectors... > > The over-the-top connector in question is the one used to connect the > memory cards to the CPU; sometimes also called the PMI connector. > > The KA630 one and the KA650 one(s) are different. The KA630 one does > have some issue in a KA650 system, but I don't know exactly what the > problem is. IIRC the KA630 one has three connectors (two mem boards max) > so a four connector one (three memory boards) would be a KA65x one. (I > don't have part numbers and a quick google didn't help). Other than the number of connectors on the ribbon, the cable itself is the same. Both are straight though cables, and I've successfully interchanged them in another system I have just for grins. The KA630 and KA65x *do* use different memory boards though, and I think the connectors don't line up the same if you attempt to mismatch the cpu and memory boards. > > For some reason, they seem to not be getting clean power, so they are > > not working properly. I won't know for sure until I get my scope > > probes, but I expect to see lots of noise on the power supply output > > that happens to power most of the chips on those boards. And another update... I tried powering the system up again today, this time with the console cable connected and ready to go the first time. The system started its diagnostic tests like it did when it would initially go though them, but hung sometime during test '6'. As a little experiment, I may put the power supply out in the shop tonight, so it will be cool tomorrow, and after it warms up just enough, I'll try powering it up again to see if it will get a little further. -Toth From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Nov 25 20:26:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <20021126004831.GB31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Is transformer failure a rare occurance in a Tek 'scope, and is it > usually caused by some unusual catastrophic failure in the power > supply? Not too rare. It happens enough that there is a small market for Tek replacement transformers. I can't really say if they fail because of the "usually" part, but I suspect that most Tek transformers can't tolerate catastrophic failures. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From curt at atari-history.com Mon Nov 25 20:29:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <000501c294f3$8ca3e430$01000001@cvendel> Anybody who is into this system should check it this auction I found on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2074514971 The guy also has some nice Commodore stuff, a Sony (MSX?) System and some other cool stuff too. Curt From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Nov 25 20:40:00 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: scored OS/2 2.1! Message-ID: <17b.121eb3c1.2b143981@aol.com> In a message dated 11/25/2002 7:04:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, rschaefe@gcfn.org writes: << The thrift store finally marked it down to something reasonable (%50 off of $1.99-- took 'em six or eight weeks to get here from $45.00. Bah!), so I picked up an OS/2 3.5" upgrade. I was pretty excited to get it, I've always wanted to try OS/2, but it won't install. Looks like the media's crapped out, it looks cloudy in places, like something's growing on it. : ( I don't suppose anyone knows if IBM has a replacement program? I'd really like to run it on my P70. Assuming I can find a set of SIMMS for it- - the previous owner must've thought they were made of gold the way he ripped up the sockets getting 'em out. :( >> yes, there's a replacement program..within 90 days of purchase, and it was dated too. If you can find an OS/2 2.1 CD that would be a better bet as you can make the disks. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Nov 25 20:43:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3435.4.20.168.135.1038276383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > Tony wrote: > > One of my related interests is programmable calculators (which are > > really computers IMHO -- or at least I've love to see a sane > > definition which excludes them). I've been using an HP65 (100 program > > steps, 10 registers (variables)), an HP67 (224 progam steps, 26 > > variables), and so on. > > Dwight wrote: > > Oh no! > > Tony has brought 4 bit computers into the world of being > > useful. > > Actually, all HP handheld calculators made before 1986 used > 56-bit words, and 10-bit instructions. The HP-01 watch was similar > but used a 48-bit word. > > > We are just lucky that one can't make a useful 0 bit computer. > > Does an analog computer count as being a 0-bit computer, since it > doesn't have any bits? :-) > > Were there any interesting 1-bit computers other than the Motorola > MC14500B Industrial Control Unit? > > > > Sure, the PDP14... Peter Wallace From allain at panix.com Mon Nov 25 21:05:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: Message-ID: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > In the end I discovered that the '1A' fuse rating was marginal. The > PSU would work with one brand of 1A anti-surge fuse in the holder, > but would routinely blow a 1A anti-surge fuse of a different brand. > That took a _long_ time to sort out! This is marked "1.6A MDL" and I have no clue what MDL is. If it's marginal are you reccomending 2A? I perhaps could go even higher and use a circuitbreaker as backup. No Variac here, now I know why I want to buy one next time I see it. John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Nov 25 21:36:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20021126040444.GD31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 10:06:30PM -0500: > This is marked "1.6A MDL" and I have no clue what MDL is. Might a 1A and a 0.5A fuse in parallel work? > If it's marginal are you reccomending 2A? I perhaps could go even > higher and use a circuitbreaker as backup. No Variac here, now I know > why I want to buy one next time I see it. Yes, it's a useful thing to have! -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From marvin at rain.org Mon Nov 25 21:48:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DE2EF3E.537E6F43@rain.org> John Allain wrote: > > > In the end I discovered that the '1A' fuse rating was marginal. The > > PSU would work with one brand of 1A anti-surge fuse in the holder, > > but would routinely blow a 1A anti-surge fuse of a different brand. > > That took a _long_ time to sort out! > > This is marked "1.6A MDL" and I have no clue what MDL is. MDL is a slow-blo fuse, designed to take the "shock" of the inrush current without blowing. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Nov 25 22:17:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3435.4.20.168.135.1038276383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> <200211260042.QAA19598@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021125231202.017346c0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 06:06 PM 11/25/02 -0800, you wrote: >Were there any interesting 1-bit computers other than the Motorola >MC14500B Industrial Control Unit? The first connection machine? (64K 1-bit cpu's if I remember correctly?) carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Nov 26 00:12:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Data Translation Qbus modules. Message-ID: I've picked up some miscellaneous Qbus modules which seem to be related to data acquisition. They're made by Data Translation: DT2768, DT2769, and DT5712. From what I can find online, the DT2769 appears to be a realtime clock interface compatible with DEC's KWV11-C; I assume this is fairly useless without the RTC. I can't find anything on the DT2768, and the DT5712 is an AD/DA converter of some sort. Does anyone have details or manuals on these boards? For a long time now I've wanted to use an AD/DA Qbus module as a primitive sort of soundcard in one my Qbus VAXen. I'm not sure if the DT5712 would be suitable for the task; hopefully it is. This would also give me a /great/ excuse for learning how to write device drivers under NetBSD/vax. Thanks for any info or tips. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 26 00:19:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <00a701c294e8$67608ee0$086dbd18@n4fs> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Mike Feher wrote: > In the real early 60's I did build a simple machine that only added. It > essentially consisted of discrete power transistors connected in > cascading flip-flops. Each flip- flop went to a light on the front > panel. The input device was a rotary telephone dial. It sure dazzled my > friends and teachers at school. The input was in decimal form via the > dial and the output had to be interpreted as it was in binary. My first > experience with computers, if you can call it that. Regards - Mike That's really cool! Especially that you used a rotary telephone dial for the input. I was thinking that this would have been the perfect low-tech, low-cost input device for a homebrew computer back at that time. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Nov 26 01:29:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: References: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <3DE2CF8D.23681.985E566@localhost> I downloaded it when it was still free. Don't blame him tho. When he saw its' popularity I guess he decided to get a payback for all the work he put into it. Lawrence > On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > Ken Polsson has the best one I've found at: > > http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/ > > > > Only the first part (through 1976) is free online but for a reasonable > > fee you can subscribe to the rest of the timeline. > > It used to be free in it's entirety. I wonder when he started charging > to read all of it? > > At any rate, it's an interesting revenue stream :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 26 02:09:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: "Curt Vendel" "Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland" (Nov 25, 21:28) References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <000501c294f3$8ca3e430$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <10211260811.ZM5095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 25, 21:28, Curt Vendel wrote: > Anybody who is into this system should check it this auction I found on > Ebay: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2074514971 > > The guy also has some nice Commodore stuff, a Sony (MSX?) System and some > other cool stuff too. The coolest item there, for me, is his Jupiter Ace. For those who don't know, it's a FORTH machine, and fairly rare. It's based on a Sinclair ZX81, and named after the Pilot ACE computer built in 1950 at the National Physical Laboratory. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Nov 26 04:04:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFA4@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> I have a VLC sitting at home and I have various test kit in the office. If you outline exactly what you would like measured (and observed on a scope) I can probably get around to looking tonight and testing tomorrow. (I've not followed this thread too much so all I know is that you have a flakey VLC and the finger of suspicion is currently pointed firmly at the PSU and associated mainboard circuitry). Antonio From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Nov 26 05:47:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: <200211252025.MAA19460@clulw009.amd.com> <001b01c294d0$a14a3a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DE36CC7.7A4BD3CD@ccp.com> I'd check the diodes for shorts too. What might work here is a variac with a 100W lightbulb in series. Ease up on the voltage, and the lightbulb will limit the current to a safe value and give you a visual warning. If all else fails, you might have a heater-cathode short across one of the tubes putting a load on the B+. They loved to have all sorts of positive and negative voltages to make those tubes work as DC amps. A book here would be invaluable, and some serious head-scratching time. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO John Allain wrote: > > Hi, > I happened upon one of these beauts through one of those > 'oh, you collect old computers, come back next week and > I'll have something' type deals. This is a Tektronix 310A > portable tube scope and just too well made to ever scrap, > IMHO. For example it opens up like a car hood to give > access to the entire centerline of the box, with components > on both sides of the hinge. The reason Why I opened it is > that it reliably blows fuses on power-on. All looks perfect, > no burn marks or damage anywhere, just a little dust. > > My thinking is that its the old electrolytic capacitor thing. > There are about 5 large (2"x3") and more smaller ones > present. Do I just cut the leads and test-form them to see > if they hold a charge or is there some other obvious thing > to start with? > > I probably shouldn't ask before the holidays, > but it might be worth a try. > > John A. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Nov 26 07:21:00 2002 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [ghate@essar.co.id: NetBSD WWW feedback from ghate@essar.co.id]] Message-ID: <3DE374BE.3E697298@comcast.net> F.Y.I. - Saw this over at the NetBSD/Vax-port list... Jan Schaumann wrote: > > Hi, > > We just received this message at www@ -- thought it might be of interest > to somebody over here. If not, my apologies. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: NetBSD WWW feedback from ghate@essar.co.id > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:40:32 -0800 (PST) > From: ghate@essar.co.id (A.M.Ghate) > To: www@netbsd.org > > ghate@essar.co.id (A.M.Ghate) sent the following > comment about The NetBSD Project's WWW server: > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > We have surplus two nos. of following mentioned computers.We want to > sale them off.pls contact us if you are interested in buying it. > The details are as follows. > Micro VAX II computers, DEC make- 2 nos. > Model-630QB-A2 consisting of Micro vaxII CPU with floating point > processor.1Mbyte memory.BA123 enclosure,console terminal port and > BCC08-10 console terminal cable. > > The technical details of the system are as follows. > > The MicroVAX II was based on a single, quad-sized 32-bit processor board > and contained the MicroVAX chip (which included memory management). The > machine featured a floating-point coprocessor chip, 1MB of on-board > memory, Q22-bus interface, Q22-map for DMA transfers, interval timer, > boot and diagnostic facility, console serial line unit and time-of-year > clock. > > MicroVAX II 630QY, 630QZ Owner's Manual (pdf) > at The DFWCUG Historical CPU Preservation Society > > Relative Performance x VAX-11/780 (1 MIP) 0.9 > Technology NMOS > Number of Processors 1 > Maximum Memory Support 16 MB > Memory Type Parity > Mass-storage Capacity > Max. Local 4 Port Disk Controllers 2 > Max. Local Disk Capacity 2.8 GB > VAXcluster I/O Servers (HSCs) N/A > I/O Bus Capacity > Max I/O Throughput 3.3 MB/s > Bus Type 1 Q-bus > Communications > LAN Support Optional > Ethernet Adapters Optional > Expansion > CI VAXcluster System Support N/A > Ethernet VAXcluster System Support Optional > CPU Upgrade Kit N/A > System Software VMS > ULTRIX-32 > VAXELN > Processor Features > Floating Point Accelerator Standard > Floating Point Data Types F, D, G, H > Cache Size N/A > Cache Cycle Time N/A > ------------------------------------------------------------ -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Nov 26 07:29:00 2002 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: <20021125004608.G1222@MissSophie> Message-ID: <20021126134308.GB18782@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 11:52:20PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > In other words, there are EEs who know what they are doing. There are > also ones that don't. The latter are far too common in my experience! I know examples for both types... > Actaully, I also have to say that any classic computer enthusiast who > doesn't know how to program, and who doesn't understand the concepts of > machine code, is also making life difficult for himself. What makes me afraid is that todays CS students often don't learn what machine code is. "All the world is Java." > I am very much hardware-biased, but I still have no problem with > simple-ish programming.... Yes. I am also doing some Unix kernel hacking. (I try to do. ;-) ) > Does he have the tools to write his own microcode? No. We even don't have tools / media to install the OS (Genera). Some other friends have the same problem with there Symbolics machines. No removable media or only QIC tape but no tapes and no knowledge on how to build them. Dead MFM disks, ... > Has he ever tried to do it. I don't think. He used the machines for what they where build: Genera. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Nov 26 07:46:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: old test equipment found Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20021126084006.017336b8@pop1.epm.net.co> I've recently come across three pieces of vintage test equipment; a Precision brand signal tracer, a Heathkit audio analyzer and a Radiometer Copenhaguen model HO-32 beat frequency oscillator. Here are some pics; the ones marked "small" are 60KB on average and the others are roughly 600KB and highly detailed: http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer-small.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer_bottom-small.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer_bottom.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer_top-small.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/heathkit_audioanalyzer_top.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/precision_tracer_model_st-22.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/precision_tracer_model_st-22_small.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/radiometer_copenhagen_ho32_BFO-small.jpg http://nazas.autonoma.edu.co/radiometer_copenhagen_ho32_BFO.jpg The Heathkit audio analyzer passed visual inspection (pretty clean and caps looked ok) and I powered it up. It seems to work. The Precision signal tracer is not working; somebody took off the rectifier tube/valve and soldered a couple of diodes; I suspect that at least one filament is open (pins 3 and 4, right? It's been a long time since I last worked with tubes). I certainly want to restore it; I like the "magic eye" indicator tube. The Radiometer Copenhagen gear I haven't powered up because several large electrolitic caps show signs of deterioration. The construction of this last device is outstanding in terms of the quality of the components. The Heathkit is pretty good too; not so the Precision signal tracer. Now the question: can you please take a look and see if 1) you have docs for any of these, 2) might guess what the operating procedures are and what the controls and connectors are for? Some I can guess, others I don't know. regards, carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Nov 26 08:36:00 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter Wallace wrote: >Now I take some 1/32 copper sheet, and bend it into a 'U' >shaped piece that fits loosely over the SMD part, contacting both solder >lands. With this tip in the Weller iron, and adequate flux and solder to make >good thermal contact with the part and card, its easy to remove the part. This sounds neat. But I don't understand yet - you screw the copper "U" into the end of a tip which itself then screws into the end of the iron? - Mark From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Nov 26 08:46:32 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: <000201c291f7$9dddbea0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: > We never used those particular devices at our installation, but I did see > some info on them (I think there was also a 7184 of similar nature). > > These were synchronous, block transmission terminals - a screenful of > information was sent at a time (either system -> terminal or terminal -> > system). Used on the 1900 series and perhaps 2900s. Normally > connected via a > 7900 series communications processor (better known as a PF56), but some of > the last smaller 1900s (1901T & 1902T) had a built-in adaptor. When I first started work as an Op for the local council they'd just phased out their old mainframe (I was sure it was a 2900 but could've been a 1900) and upgraded to a dual node 2966. The old console had one of these keyboards so that matches. The comms cable on this keyboard is massive AND it includes 240V mains. I'll keep digging :) w From vance at neurotica.com Tue Nov 26 08:48:48 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Looking for a DEC VT440 repair manual or schematic set. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021123083224.01abcee0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: What are the features of these terminals? Do they do ReGIS/Sixels like the VT240 and VT340? Color? What do they look like? Never seen one. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for engineering drawings and/or maintenance manual for > a DEC VT440 terminal. A copy or scan would be fine. > > --tnx > --tom > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Nov 26 08:50:43 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nope. The one I am talking about had a beige case, and was significantly larger and thicker. I think it was later than 1988 too. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Glen Slick wrote: > Maybe a T5100 (16 MHz 386, plasma display, 1987) or a T5200 (20 MHz 386, > 1988) ? > > http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5100/index.shtm > > http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5200/index.shtm > > > > > >From: vance@neurotica.com > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Re: early pc with lcd screen > >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:14:17 -0500 (EST) > > > > > >Speaking of old portables, anyone remember the large Toshiba > >almost-laptop with the full 101-key keyboard? I can't remember the name, > >but I'd love to get one, as I drooled over one for a while. > > > >Peace... Sridhar > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Nov 26 08:53:23 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: early pc with lcd screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah! I found it. It's a T6600C. Off-topic, but still cool. http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t6600c/index.shtm Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Glen Slick wrote: > Maybe a T5100 (16 MHz 386, plasma display, 1987) or a T5200 (20 MHz 386, > 1988) ? > > http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5100/index.shtm > > http://www.toshiba-europe.com/computers/products/notebooks/t5200/index.shtm > > > > > >From: vance@neurotica.com > >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Re: early pc with lcd screen > >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:14:17 -0500 (EST) > > > > > >Speaking of old portables, anyone remember the large Toshiba > >almost-laptop with the full 101-key keyboard? I can't remember the name, > >but I'd love to get one, as I drooled over one for a while. > > > >Peace... Sridhar > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > From chessnotation at mac.com Tue Nov 26 08:55:26 2002 From: chessnotation at mac.com (Steven Edwards) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: IMSAI Series Two Message-ID: <7E8736D5-FF3C-11D6-B75E-0003938026DE@mac.com> Greetings to the list: It looks like the IMSAI Series Two (the "S2") is nearing its first production run. (See http://imsai.net/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imsaiusergroup/) I've ordered one of these as a replacement of sorts for the IMSAI 8080 I assembled back in 1976 but managed to, uh, "lose" in the early 1980s. It's been a long time since I've had a chance to fool around with a machine equipped with a real front panel. I had thought I'd seen about every S-100 machine ever made, but I recently came across a net reference to the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1. It looks almost identical to the IMSAI 8080 except that the DPS-1 front panel is styled more in the way of Digital's later PDP models. I note that the DPS-1 PSU is somewhat different from the IMSAI 8080, but other than that. the internals seem to be very similar. So, are there any other IMSAI 8080 fans on the list? From vance at neurotica.com Tue Nov 26 08:57:21 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: hard drive making weird noises In-Reply-To: <10e.1a9ea1f1.2b11b41f@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Normally IBM drives are pretty good. The issue was about some particular > model that was rated for xxxx hours of constant usage or something like that. > Check slashdot archives for discussion on it. If it's a SMART drive, you have > the program that can query the drive, it might be able to tell you if > anything bad is happening. > > I've still got IBM SCSI drives from 8-10 years ago still going strong with > that soft tick-tick-tick recalibrate noise happening every once in a while. > The 400 meg ones are so quiet you can't tell when they doing R/W operations. There's a *big* difference between IBM IDE and SCSI drives. Peace... Sridhar From cgmm at thersgb.net Tue Nov 26 08:59:28 2002 From: cgmm at thersgb.net (Godfrey Manning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Flexowriter Message-ID: <000501c293eb$b5d49240$f79a01d4@oemcomputer> Does anybody in the UK (apart from me) possess a Mk. 1 Friden Flexowriter? Can I be of any help (info/spares) to such a person? Godfrey. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Nov 26 09:01:23 2002 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: <3DF34600-0014-11D7-820E-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unicomp (http://www.pckeyboard.com/), the people who bought the Model M design from Lexmark, currently make a keyboard with a buckling-spring mechanism, which is very similar to the IBM Model M, has an embedded TrackPoint III, and Windows keys. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > My new computer is a Power Macintosh G4. It doesn't have a PS/2 port. > On my PC, I used an old Wang keyboard, a model 724. I really like that > keyboard. I also have some of the IBM PS/2 Model M keyboards, the > clicky ones. I like those too. I bought a PS/2 to USB adapter, but it > would not work with the Wang keyboard. Also, with other keyboards, I > don't have an Open-Apple key (pronounced "Meta"). If I connect a PC USB > keyboard, the Windows key serves this purpose. The problem here is that > the only PC keyboards with a Windows key are the membrane type. In > other words, if I want to get a decent, yet compatible keyboard, It > looks like I'll have to build it. Besides, I love projects like these. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 07:48 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > > > >> Actually, I've been planning on building my own. I am currently > >> tracking down old, broken keyboards from terminals, etc. to get > >> keytops > >> and switches from, and I am going to canniballize a cheap PC USB > >> keyboard for it's encoder chip and associated circuitry. Basically, > >> I'm > >> going to build a new key matrix from real switches, to replace that > >> membrane and rubber disc thing modern keyboards use. I've done stuff > >> like this before, rewiring a very old PC keyboard to replace a broken > >> TRS-80 Color Computer 3 keyboard. With any luck, I'll have something > >> that won't wear out nearly as fast as others, and be comfortable to > >> type on as well. The only thing I might run into is contact bounce. I > >> don't know if there is anything in a USB keyboard to deal with this, > >> as > >> I don't think membrane keyboards have quite the problem with contact > >> bounce as mechanical switches do. Any ideas? > > > > I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find > > yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into the > > PS/2 > > keyboard port on the back of your computer? Or are you unlucky enough > > to > > have a machine that doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard connection? Sure, > > it's > > not the same as the keyboard on, say, and ADM-3A, but it's 'more > > authentic' than modern keyboards. > > > > Of course, sometimes I like the fact that my keyboard is fairly quiet > > when > > I'm typing on it. It may still be louder than my other machines in the > > room, but it's nowhere near as obnoxious as a 'real' keybard. > > > > Pat > > -- > > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > > Information Technology at Purdue > > Research Computing and Storage > > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > > From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Tue Nov 26 09:03:17 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. Message-ID: <200211251330.gAPDUPqo010788@codex.cis.upenn.edu> In the 80s I had a BBC microcomputer, probably the best 8-bit microcomputer there is. It had a ROM-based OS and an number of ROM-based applications (you got BASIC with the default configuration, but you could add word processors, spreadsheets, Forth, BCPL, Pascal and other languages). I used it extensively for almost 10 years (I developed the prototype for my MSc in CS and I also wrote my MSc thesis on it). Even after I switched over to a PC, I did not pack my BBC away, as for many many years (until I decided to leave my computer always on) it was the only machine in my house I could use to scrible a few thoughts or a shopping list without waiting forever for my PC to boot). The ROM based system allowed instant switch on, like e.g. a Palm Pilot. It had an 80x32 (I think) screen which you could configure to display as a ruled page (like a notepad) - very useful for looking across rows of numbers. I had an Epson FX80 - it was a 9pin dot martix, but I had written a program to print high quality output using the quad density graphics mode. It was *slow* but almost typewritter quality. But the good thing about that machine was that it was *convenient* it didn't stand in your way, it was a tool to help you do your work. Something that is missing from todays machines. I just found out that my laptop decided to ignore its power settings, did not go into power save when I closed the lid, and kept operating in by backpack while I was running all over town. The machine overheated and the disk got trashed. Excellent. **vp From Buckel_B at medizin.uni-wuerzburg.de Tue Nov 26 09:05:12 2002 From: Buckel_B at medizin.uni-wuerzburg.de (Buckel, Bernhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: AIX for a Bull Estrella Message-ID: <02Nov25.164729cet.115234@firewall.kks.uni-wuerzburg.de> Hi Alex, I read your posting to classiccmp.org regarding an alternative for a Bull Estrella running AIX - do you have installation media for this (unfortunatedly) rare combination? I own such a beast and all my attempts to install AIX (in the original IBM flavor) have failed so far... TIA! Bernhard -- Bernhard Buckel Institut fuer Klinische Biochemie und Pathobiochemie Josef-Schneider Str. 2 97080 Wuerzburg / Germany Tel: +49 931 201 36312 Fax: +49 931 201 36793 From vcf at siconic.com Tue Nov 26 09:07:10 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Need Read-It! v1.02 and/or v1.1 OCR software/manual by Olduvai (for Mac) Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy of Read-It! v1.02 and/or v1.1 by Olduvai (for the Macintosh). This is OCR software circa 1987-1988. The important thing is the manual. I don't really need the software at this point. There i$ a bounty for thi$. If you have this then please contact me directly at . Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Kim at entrix.co.uk Tue Nov 26 09:10:01 2002 From: Kim at entrix.co.uk (Kim Harris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: OS disks for HP150A Message-ID: <001901c29551$2fec2550$365b81c1@entrix.co.uk> Hello, I wonder if anyone can help me. I have an early 1980s Hewlett Packard HP150A which I am trying to find a home for in a museum. The system is working but I can't find the MSDOS (or application) disks for it which were on 3.5" floppy. Does anyone know a source of such things? I think I may have a museum interested but I would rather donate it as a fully working system. Thanks in anticipation Kim Harris * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is intended for the addressed recipient only. If it has reached you in error, please return to postmaster@entrix.co.uk. Messages are sent by individuals and do not necessarily state the policy or opinion of Entrix Computing Ltd. Email is scanned for viruses and content by MailMarshal and Norman Virus Control. From n4fs at monmouth.com Tue Nov 26 09:26:01 2002 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Flexowriter References: <000501c293eb$b5d49240$f79a01d4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <006601c29560$15246160$086dbd18@n4fs> Boy, this brings back memories. I had a Frieden Flexowriter in the late 60's early 70's. It was some machine. I mainly used mine to write out QSL cards from standard post cards. Just had to make the paper tape once, and then run it through each time I wanted a new QSL made. Cannot remember what happened to it, or where I even got it, but, I sure do remember the machine. Lots of nostalgia for me on this reflector. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Godfrey Manning" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Flexowriter > Does anybody in the UK (apart from me) possess a Mk. 1 Friden Flexowriter? > Can I be of any help (info/spares) to such a person? > Godfrey. > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Nov 26 09:31:19 2002 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Dilog DQ142 Available Message-ID: <200211260732180269.AF2E92DC@192.168.42.129> The original bidder never came through, so I've placed a Dilog DQ142 tape controller and manual up on E-pay. The link is here if you're interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2075389363 Thanks for putting up with the occasional ad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From r.stek at snet.net Tue Nov 26 09:41:18 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (r.stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Score! Sol-20, Netronics Elf, MCS-85 SBC Message-ID: <261102330.27768@webbox.com> Welcome to the club, Sol owner! I hope you have checked out Jim Battle's SOLace website - lots of good documentation if you need it. And if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. I have lots of docs too. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Nov 26 09:51:00 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Nov 26 10:05:01 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: Flexowriter References: <000501c293eb$b5d49240$f79a01d4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <020e01c29565$e14c3a60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I once picked one up with a girlfriend of mine in a VW-beetle Now I was in the middle of moving house so I had no space to put the monster. At first she was not very pleased with the idea of storing it in the (front) booth of her car for a few weeks, but she went along.... After thoose few weeks she didn't want to get rid of it anymore because her VW-beetle had never been that rockstable on the road ever before. The Flexowriter ended up as an "educational" tool in a Noorwijk youthclub both to learn typing on, and to list out the memberlist and mailinglists that were put on papertape. You could also do nice tricks with endless loops of papertape etc. And it was virtually indestructable. A very necessary feature for any device residing in that youthclub! Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Godfrey Manning" To: Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 8:00 PM Subject: Flexowriter > Does anybody in the UK (apart from me) possess a Mk. 1 Friden Flexowriter? > Can I be of any help (info/spares) to such a person? > Godfrey. > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Nov 26 10:18:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:09 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: References: <3DE16338.5080502@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 24, 2 04:39:36 pm Message-ID: <3DE3AD79.4980.43E37EE1@localhost> > > >For a real word processing you need 80x24 upper/lower case display, > > > This would take 2K of memory space (if memory-mapped), and therefore > > > could easily be accommodated by an 8 bit processor. > > But 80 x 24 display cards are hard to find, but a 80x24? terminal > For waht machine? 80*24 display cards were _very_ common for the Apple > ][. I've seen them for the CoCo, and for the Tatung Einstein. I've seen a > design for one for the C64. I wouldn't be suprised if they existed for many > other 8 bit machines too. There have been 80 column cards even for ZX81s ... > > most likely would be used? I wonder if you can get a nice OS/9 > > machine still? > Well, I am not sure the 6809 is still in production. But I would guess > OS-9 68K boxes still exist, If not, why not make one? Now, OS/9 even reached the PowerPC by now. Alt least a company in a small town south of Munich offers boards and OS/9. http://www.kanis.de/home/os9/i_os9.htm Beside that, there are still new 6809 designs around and of course an awfull lot of 68Ks. > > >>full keyboard (compared to the membrane keyboards of some computers) > > > That has _nothing_ to do with the processor bus width! > > But 99% of all 8 bit machines in the 1980's were marketed as > > game machines. > What's that got to do with anything. Maybe many of the 8 bit machines > sold to home users had poor keyboards (I would agree with that). This > does not mean an 8 bit machine can't have a good keyboard. Also we need to define 'many' in here ... if we go for sheer numbers during the whole 80s, then Homecomputers (not game systems) might be the winners. but if we go vor value or number of meodels, then non home/game systems where way ahead. also, where do you put a C64 used as the main system for a small company? And there have been an awful lot of professional applications for C64s - I never liked the machine, it's one of the least desireable designs, nonetheless, it deserves some honor. ALso, arn't most PCs sold today home computers? Just because they have a better display and keyboard (well, sometimes) they still fit the same nice as a C64 - or at least an Apple II - did 15 years ago. > > > Heving driven Daisywheel printers and a Sanders 12/7 Varioprinter (a > > > multi-pass dot-matrix printer that could do _very_ near letter quality > > > output) from 8 bit machines, I don't see the problem either. > > I never had the money for a good printer at that time. > Again, what you could afford back then and what was possible are 2 > totally different things... To me there's a prety simple way to determinate what's a good, up to date configuration. it's exactly what you'll get for ~3500 Mark (1750 Euro). It's been a fix thing since about 1975. Back then you got an Apple II, 16 K, a cassette drive and a simple green screen. Today it's a 2.x GHz, 256 Meg PC with a niche 17" CRT a scanner and a colour printer. Still the same thing, relative to it's time. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Nov 26 10:29:00 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Dying VaxStation 4000 VLC - help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Mark Tapley wrote: > Peter Wallace wrote: > > >Now I take some 1/32 copper sheet, and bend it into a 'U' > >shaped piece that fits loosely over the SMD part, contacting both solder > >lands. With this tip in the Weller iron, and adequate flux and solder to make > >good thermal contact with the part and card, its easy to remove the part. > > This sounds neat. But I don't understand yet - you screw the copper "U" > into the end of a tip which itself then screws into the end of the iron? > > - Mark > > > Yes, the 'U' shaped copper part is attached with a screw to the modified (blunted) tip which is then installed as usual into the iron. Weller temp controlled (TCPN?) tips dont screw in though, they slide into the iron and are held in with a separate sleeve and threaded ring. Peter Wallace From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 26 10:47:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <000501c294f3$8ca3e430$01000001@cvendel> <10211260811.ZM5095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3DE3A576.6050009@jetnet.ab.ca> Peter Turnbull wrote: > The coolest item there, for me, is his Jupiter Ace. For those who don't > know, it's a FORTH machine, and fairly rare. It's based on a Sinclair > ZX81, and named after the Pilot ACE computer built in 1950 at the National > Physical Laboratory. Mind you , you can build both computers of the web nowdays too. I don't have the links how ever. Also getting the ROM is kind of a grey area too. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Nov 26 10:53:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. References: <3DE16338.5080502@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Nov 24, 2 04:39:36 pm <3DE3AD79.4980.43E37EE1@localhost> Message-ID: <3DE3A701.10605@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans Franke wrote: > > To me there's a prety simple way to determinate what's a good, up > to date configuration. it's exactly what you'll get for ~3500 Mark > (1750 Euro). It's been a fix thing since about 1975. Back then you > got an Apple II, 16 K, a cassette drive and a simple green screen. > Today it's a 2.x GHz, 256 Meg PC with a niche 17" CRT a scanner and > a colour printer. > > Still the same thing, relative to it's time. Still the SAME SPEED too. :) From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Nov 26 11:13:01 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Honeywell/Bull D120 cartridge drive infor wanted. In-Reply-To: <18G4AN-21FmC0C@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> References: <18G4AN-21FmC0C@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <3DE245E900023E8D@mta2n.bluewin.ch> (added by postmaster@bluewin.ch) On Sunday 24 November 2002 10:25 pm, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > Hi Jos, > what's the relation between a Bull D120 (which i don't know) and a Lillith > ... > > Bernd The Bull D120 is, as you might have guessed, the drive used in earlier versions of the Lilith. Latter versions came with double memory ( 256K ) and a 15Mb ST506-interface style disk. Jos From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 26 11:21:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope Message-ID: <200211261722.JAA19774@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "R. D. Davis" > >Quothe John Allain, from writings of Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 10:06:30PM -0500: >> This is marked "1.6A MDL" and I have no clue what MDL is. > >Might a 1A and a 0.5A fuse in parallel work? No Dwight > >> If it's marginal are you reccomending 2A? I perhaps could go even >> higher and use a circuitbreaker as backup. No Variac here, now I know >> why I want to buy one next time I see it. > >Yes, it's a useful thing to have! > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Nov 26 11:43:01 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: old test equipment found References: <3.0.2.32.20021126084006.017336b8@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3DE3C02A.DF2FE91A@ccp.com> Carlos Murillo wrote: > > I've recently come across three pieces of vintage test > equipment; ---snip-- > The Heathkit audio analyzer passed visual inspection --snip-- > The Precision signal tracer is not working; somebody took off > the rectifier tube/valve and soldered a couple of diodes; I suspect > that at least one filament is open (pins 3 and 4, right? --snip-- The Radiometer Copenhagen gear I haven't powered up > Now the question: can you please take a look and see if > > 1) you have docs for any of these, > > 2) might guess what the operating procedures are and what the controls > and connectors are for? Some I can guess, others I don't know. The Heathkit distortion analyzer used to be fairly common around AM radio stations, as they used it for proof-of-performance testing. One feeds an audio tone into an amplifier/console and the Heathkit is across the output. Null the tone out, and what's left is harmonic distortion/noise/hum etc. The precision signal tracer is not much more than a very high gain audio amp. The missing probe is just an AM detector, so that a modulated RF signal can be followed in a radio. I'm wondering if those diodes are replacing a 6X4, 6X5, or 5Y3, as the pins vary. If the tubes are all 6xxx numbers then it is tranformer operated, if they are different numbers, it may be series string across the AC line and not worth fixing. I've found them not all that useful, just makes troubleshooting AM radios and audio amps a lot faster. The Beat Frequency oscillator looks like a copy of a GR design. I think all it may be is an audio oscillator on the order of the venerable HP 200CD, with variable output impedances. It will be a good exercise of the grey matter getting them restored w/o schematics. There might be info on the Web for those units, so keep looking. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 12:02:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: I noticed that one a couple of days ago and was somewhat interested. But it is listed at 40lb so shipping would probably cost more than the opening bid, plus it looks like it needs some weird type of V35ish connector which might be difficult and/or expensive to source if you don't happen to have one already. Has anyone built their own optical paper tape reader? Where would you get the 8/9-bit sensor part? >From: "Bill Sudbrink" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:53:02 -0500 > >Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was >offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It >currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I >can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 26 12:17:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: <200211261819.KAA19882@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Glen Slick" >I noticed that one a couple of days ago and was somewhat interested. But it >is listed at 40lb so shipping would probably cost more than the opening bid, >plus it looks like it needs some weird type of V35ish connector which might >be difficult and/or expensive to source if you don't happen to have one >already. > > >Has anyone built their own optical paper tape reader? Where would you get >the 8/9-bit sensor part? Hi Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. You could scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( two for each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy photo transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear lensed LED's make reasonable detectors. Use a little imagination. Dwight > > > >>From: "Bill Sudbrink" >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: >>Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay >>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:53:02 -0500 >> >>Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was >>offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It >>currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I >>can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 13:00:01 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [ghate@essar.co.id: NetBSD WWW feedback from ghate@essar.co.id]] Message-ID: > > ghate@essar.co.id (A.M.Ghate) sent the following > > comment about The NetBSD Project's WWW server: FYI, .id would indicate Indonesia as the point of origin... I don't know about the rest of the list, but I don't want another MV II badly enough to go to Indonesia for it! Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 13:04:53 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: I was hoping there might be some sort of preassembled optical sensor array available with the right spacing for paper tape holes, but maybe that is hoping for too much. If you build one with discrete sensors, is it easy to find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to side with the correct spacing? >Hi > Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. You could >scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( two for >each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy photo >transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear lensed >LED's make reasonable detectors. > Use a little imagination. >Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 13:10:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> I was musing about the state of VT100s and other dumb terminals and had a few ideas zing by... Many of DECs dumb terminals are Z80 based with custom video hardware, yes? Has anyone ever decompiled or reverse-engineered the code to analyze the core code? I know that Kermit has a more-than-adequate terminal implementation in it, but Kermit is more suited for a machine with an OS and a C run-time library, not embedded devices. Has anyone on the list ever worked with complete BIOS replacement on a commodity Intel motherboard? ISTR Tony Duell or someone here was contemplating doing some task by removing the ROMs from a 5150 board and replacing them in their entirety. With a decent terminal emulator package, that would be one way to implement a DIY dumb terminal. Where I'm going with this is embeddability and portability. Obviously, for use such as we had in the old days, a real Wyse or real VT100 or VT220 is the way to go... simple and easy... plug it in, turn it on. I have used my Palm Pilot as a portable terminal for reconfiguring Cisco routers (VT100 app and a travel cable and the appropriate RS-232 dongles). My boss at the time flipped when he saw me do it (everybody else dragged a laptop into the server room). There are just times when I'd like a laptop-sized-or-smaller ANSI terminal. I can forego double-high/double-wide chars, inverse video and the like for simplicity's sake (hardly ever used them in an app except at the South Pole), but it should be complex enough to run a screen editor (vi or emacs) and/or basic curses apps (Rogue/Larn/NetHack and the like). One place I thought BIOS replacement might be handy was in a sub-486 laptop.... just pull it out, plug it in and *voila*, it's a dumb terminal weighing a few lbs. Yes, it's possible to drop an OS on a floppy and add Kermit (I've already done that with a dual-720K- floppy Zenith 8088 portabie). I'm thinking of a dedicated "instant- on" experience. I also have some "Net Stations" with a 5"x5" 486 motherboard stuffed under a PC keyboard (with 4 30-pin SIMM sockets, IDE, serial, video, and NE2000 network built-in). They don't run off batteries, but neither do they have an intergral screen. I've also tried to think of ways to adapt a Palm Pilot with a permanent keyboard, but I'm not sure there's a way to do it with only one serial port (terminals typically have at least two, even if one is dedicated to servicing the keyboard and somewhat "invisible" to normal operation. The final angle I've worked on is to recycle the main board in a VT220 (being somewhat physically small), but I don't have schematics and I don't know what signals go over the ribbon cable to the PSU/ Analog board under the CRT. So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? Anyone get any further? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 13:15:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021126191507.90188.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Glen Slick wrote: > If you build one with discrete sensors, is it easy to find ones that > are narrow enough to stack side to side with the correct spacing? There was an article in Byte magazine in the late 1970s to early 1980s about constructing your own optical reader. ISTR the author just glued some standard photo transistors in a line and buffered them, before running them to a parallel port on whatever his target system was. There was a sensor under the sprocket hole that acted as a clock - it was turned 180 degrees from the other phototransistors so as to trigger slightly later than the data bits (due to the geometry of the silicon under the lens). You just fed the leader through, set up the receiving machine, then pulled the tape through by hand with a desk lamp sitting over the reader. Lo-tech but it looked effective. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 26 13:23:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu "Re: 8 bit vs other Computers." (Nov 25, 8:30) References: <200211251330.gAPDUPqo010788@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <10211261924.ZM5444@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 25, 8:30, vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu wrote: > > In the 80s I had a BBC microcomputer, probably the best 8-bit microcomputer > there is. I won't argue with that -- I still use mine, too :-) > It had an 80x32 (I think) screen which you could configure to display > as a ruled page (like a notepad) - very useful for looking across > rows of numbers. Mode 0 is 80x32 mono, with no gaps between lines. You're probably thinking of Mode 3, 80x25, with gaps between the lines; also mono but you can set the foreground and background to be different from the gaps. > Something that is missing from todays machines. I just found out > that my laptop decided to ignore its power settings, did not go into > power save when I closed the lid, and kept operating in by backpack > while I was running all over town. The machine overheated and the disk > got trashed. Excellent. You're lucky it was only the disk! Take a look at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28245.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 13:28:00 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: Well I wouldn't bid on it because I don't need 2... If someone does get it, I have the manual. And, FWIW, it is not a 2784B, it is a 2748B... I dunno what a 2784 is, but it ain't a paper tape reader... Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Tue Nov 26 13:33:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Old ICL mainframe keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c29582$89560bc0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > When I first started work as an Op for the local council they'd > just phased > out their old mainframe (I was sure it was a 2900 but could've > been a 1900) > and upgraded to a dual node 2966. The old console had one of > these keyboards > so that matches. All models of the 1900 series had (slightly modified) KSR33 Teletypes for operators console* as supplied. The interface was such that it was relatively easy to install a faster serial ASCII device. As we did our own maintenance we were able to do this (using, at different times, a 30cps printing terminal then a 120cps VDU+ a printer) and I suspect that sites that were on friendly terms with their support would also be able to do this even tho' it was not a "standard" offering. The 10cps console was a serious bottleneck on large non-George3 sites. I'm not sure what console a 2903 had (the 2903 was a 32-bit processor microcoded to emulate the 24 bit 1900 series). * The 1901 and the 1901A had a switches & lights console as standard with the TTY as an option (strongly recommended!). Most information in this posting comes from the second (final) edition of the "Central Processors" manual as updated to 2/2/77 (manual number 4412) ... the source of the rest of the info should be obvious :-) Andy From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Nov 26 13:37:50 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? Message-ID: I have heard of people using an HP LX palmtop (the 100LX/200LX have a fuller serial port implementation than does the 95LX) as a terminal for the type of tasks you mention. The 200LX runs MS-DOS 5.0 on an i80186, so you should be able to get a number of terminal emulation programs that will work on it. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? I was musing about the state of VT100s and other dumb terminals and had a few ideas zing by... I have used my Palm Pilot as a portable terminal for reconfiguring Cisco routers (VT100 app and a travel cable and the appropriate RS-232 dongles). My boss at the time flipped when he saw me do it (everybody else dragged a laptop into the server room). There are just times when I'd like a laptop-sized-or-smaller ANSI terminal. I can forego double-high/double-wide chars, inverse video and the like for simplicity's sake (hardly ever used them in an app except at the South Pole), but it should be complex enough to run a screen editor (vi or emacs) and/or basic curses apps (Rogue/Larn/NetHack and the like). One place I thought BIOS replacement might be handy was in a sub-486 laptop.... just pull it out, plug it in and *voila*, it's a dumb terminal weighing a few lbs. Yes, it's possible to drop an OS on a floppy and add Kermit (I've already done that with a dual-720K- floppy Zenith 8088 portabie). I'm thinking of a dedicated "instant- on" experience. I also have some "Net Stations" with a 5"x5" 486 motherboard stuffed under a PC keyboard (with 4 30-pin SIMM sockets, IDE, serial, video, and NE2000 network built-in). They don't run off batteries, but neither do they have an intergral screen. I've also tried to think of ways to adapt a Palm Pilot with a permanent keyboard, but I'm not sure there's a way to do it with only one serial port (terminals typically have at least two, even if one is dedicated to servicing the keyboard and somewhat "invisible" to normal operation. The final angle I've worked on is to recycle the main board in a VT220 (being somewhat physically small), but I don't have schematics and I don't know what signals go over the ribbon cable to the PSU/ Analog board under the CRT. So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? Anyone get any further? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Nov 26 14:03:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Has anyone on the list ever worked with complete BIOS replacement > on a commodity Intel motherboard? ISTR Tony Duell or someone here > was contemplating doing some task by removing the ROMs from a 5150 > board and replacing them in their entirety. With a decent terminal > emulator package, that would be one way to implement a DIY dumb > terminal. http://www.acl.lanl.gov/linuxbios/ I don't think these guys are doing exactly what you want, but it's pretty close -- they're starting a compressed Linux kernel from BIOS. Since the Linux kernel largely ignores the BIOS's hardware discovery after it loads, that's a natch. I bet they'll have some ideas or pointers along the lines of what you're doing. Considering you can get a 486 or PI laptop with a 10" or better screen for $50, I think you're onto a really good idea. Doc From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 26 14:44:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3DE2EF3E.537E6F43@rain.org> Message-ID: <004f01c2958c$c3216160$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> This is marked "1.6A MDL" and I have no clue what MDL is. > MDL is a slow-blo fuse, designed to take the "shock" of the > inrush current without blowing. FWIW here's some of the fuse types I've found: AGC 3AG 3AD GLH MTH MSL, none of which I know for the 1.6A MDL I have 2A "plain", 2.5A "plain", MSL 2A, MDL 2A as candidates. I guess a slightly higher value is OK when replacing a slo with a non slo? Also I imagine all of those letter codes are different blow rates? John A. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 26 15:48:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: <200211262149.NAA20084@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Glen There isn't much application for things with this spacing. Remember, you will most likely be connecting this to a uP. You really don't need to space then in a straight line. You can stager them and reassemble the entire byte width afterwards. Another though would be to use one of the linear arrays, used in scanners. Most of these are about as wide as a paper tape. You could use a collimated source and drag the tape directly over the array. You'd need to do a little image processing but it shouldn't be too difficult. There are some mechanical options that might work as well. Like I said, use some imagination. Dwight >From: "Glen Slick" > >I was hoping there might be some sort of preassembled optical sensor array >available with the right spacing for paper tape holes, but maybe that is >hoping for too much. If you build one with discrete sensors, is it easy to >find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to side with the correct >spacing? > > >>Hi >> Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. You could >>scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( two for >>each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy photo >>transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear lensed >>LED's make reasonable detectors. >> Use a little imagination. >>Dwight > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 16:11:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <200211262149.NAA20084@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021126221257.66010.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> They once made these but I haven't seen any surplus in years. Until I picked up some paper tape readers on eBay (cheap - no one wants readers, they want punches) - I was considering making one out of tiny phototransistors/IR emitters using wooden strips masked with Mylar tape punched with the RUBOUT character. I definitely think this is doable. But seriously, I'd look at eBay, because readers with nonstandard interface go for cheap. I recently missed a complete Remex reader (with reels, etc) for $20 (nobody bid on it), and I DO know how to interface these. --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi Glen > There isn't much application for things with this > spacing. > Remember, you will most likely be connecting this to > a > uP. You really don't need to space then in a > straight > line. You can stager them and reassemble the entire > byte width afterwards. > Another though would be to use one of the linear > arrays, > used in scanners. Most of these are about as wide as > a paper tape. You could use a collimated source and > drag the tape directly over the array. You'd need > to do a little image processing but it shouldn't be > too > difficult. > There are some mechanical options that might work > as well. > Like I said, use some imagination. > Dwight > > > >From: "Glen Slick" > > > >I was hoping there might be some sort of > preassembled optical sensor array > >available with the right spacing for paper tape > holes, but maybe that is > >hoping for too much. If you build one with > discrete sensors, is it easy to > >find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to > side with the correct > >spacing? > > > > > >>Hi > >> Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. > You could > >>scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( > two for > >>each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy > photo > >>transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear > lensed > >>LED's make reasonable detectors. > >> Use a little imagination. > >>Dwight > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 > months FREE*. > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Nov 26 16:48:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay References: Message-ID: <00ea01c2959e$0aea64e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> The 2748B paper tape reader is a very nice unit. I'm not bidding, I have two already. The connector on the reader is "v.35-ish", but not v.35. The other end of the cable is "proprietary" and goes to the HP 8-bit duplex register board. If someone has an HP box, they should definitely get this for loading diags. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay > Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was > offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It > currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I > can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 26 16:54:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: <200211262250.OAA20146@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have an old Intel tape reader ( I think it was made by REMEX ). It was a parallel output. I took me about 20 minutes to make an adapter to plug into the bi-directional printer port on my laptop( it took me longer to buy the cable since I went to Fry's to buy it). I took me another hour or so to look up the info on the parallel port to write a simple reader to take input from the printer port to a file. I started without schematics or docs on the reader, just knowing that it was parallel. One should be able to find the output strobe and data lines with a logic probe ( although I used an oscilloscope ). Dwight >From: "Loboyko Steve" >They once made these but I haven't seen any surplus in >years. > >Until I picked up some paper tape readers on eBay >(cheap - no one wants readers, they want punches) - I >was considering making one out of tiny >phototransistors/IR emitters using wooden strips >masked with Mylar tape punched with the RUBOUT >character. I definitely think this is doable. But >seriously, I'd look at eBay, because readers with >nonstandard interface go for cheap. I recently missed >a complete Remex reader (with reels, etc) for $20 >(nobody bid on it), and I DO know how to interface >these. > > > >--- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: >> Hi Glen >> There isn't much application for things with this >> spacing. >> Remember, you will most likely be connecting this to >> a >> uP. You really don't need to space then in a >> straight >> line. You can stager them and reassemble the entire >> byte width afterwards. >> Another though would be to use one of the linear >> arrays, >> used in scanners. Most of these are about as wide as >> a paper tape. You could use a collimated source and >> drag the tape directly over the array. You'd need >> to do a little image processing but it shouldn't be >> too >> difficult. >> There are some mechanical options that might work >> as well. >> Like I said, use some imagination. >> Dwight >> >> >> >From: "Glen Slick" >> > >> >I was hoping there might be some sort of >> preassembled optical sensor array >> >available with the right spacing for paper tape >> holes, but maybe that is >> >hoping for too much. If you build one with >> discrete sensors, is it easy to >> >find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to >> side with the correct >> >spacing? >> > >> > >> >>Hi >> >> Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. >> You could >> >>scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( >> two for >> >>each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy >> photo >> >>transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear >> lensed >> >>LED's make reasonable detectors. >> >> Use a little imagination. >> >>Dwight >> > >> > >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 >> months FREE*. >> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail >> > >> > >> >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 17:10:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: Speaking of HP 1000 diags, I recently acquired a set of HP 1000 diags on six DC100A tapes, along with a few inches of docs in a couple of binders. I would list the part numbers on the tapes but I don't have them in front of me right now. Each tape contains the configurator file and then several module level diagnostic files. Unfortunately the tapes are 20+ years old and the oxide layer has lifted off in a few spots and I haven't been able to read them successfully. Does anyone the full set of HP 1000 diagnostic files that they would be willing to share? I do have one diag file on paper tape. That was why I was interested in acquiring a reader. >From: "Jay West" >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay >Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:49:13 -0600 > >The 2748B paper tape reader is a very nice unit. I'm not bidding, I have >two >already. The connector on the reader is "v.35-ish", but not v.35. The other >end of the cable is "proprietary" and goes to the HP 8-bit duplex register >board. If someone has an HP box, they should definitely get this for >loading >diags. > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Sudbrink" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:53 AM >Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay > > > > Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was > > offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It > > currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I > > can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 > > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tarsi at binhost.com Tue Nov 26 17:21:00 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Data Translation Qbus modules. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211261723.38834.tarsi@binhost.com> I used to have a card from DT, two large ICs on them, labeled DT15060-D and DT5710-DI-A. I sold the card recently to a guy at Keyways. miller@keyways.com might be able to give you insight into what the cards are. I never really found out what they were, and contacting DT only put me on their annoying mailing list. :P~ Tarsi 210 On Tuesday 26 November 2002 00:13, Brian Chase wrote: > I've picked up some miscellaneous Qbus modules which seem to be related > to data acquisition. They're made by Data Translation: DT2768, DT2769, > and DT5712. From what I can find online, the DT2769 appears to be a > realtime clock interface compatible with DEC's KWV11-C; I assume this is > fairly useless without the RTC. I can't find anything on the DT2768, > and the DT5712 is an AD/DA converter of some sort. > > Does anyone have details or manuals on these boards? For a long time > now I've wanted to use an AD/DA Qbus module as a primitive sort of > soundcard in one my Qbus VAXen. I'm not sure if the DT5712 would be > suitable for the task; hopefully it is. This would also give me a > /great/ excuse for learning how to write device drivers under NetBSD/vax. > > Thanks for any info or tips. > > -brian. -- ----------------------------------------- Be Like A Lizard! www.thelizardlounge.org Save A Computer! www.computershelter.org Chat Someone Up! www.foreverbeyond.org Host A Webpage! www.binhost.com See About Me! tarsi.binhost.com ----------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 17:40:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Flexowriter In-Reply-To: <000501c293eb$b5d49240$f79a01d4@oemcomputer> from "Godfrey Manning" at Nov 24, 2 07:00:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 797 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/040aa6ab/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 17:49:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Nov 25, 2 02:21:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/3ceb3158/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 17:55:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3435.4.20.168.135.1038276383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Nov 25, 2 06:06:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1036 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/b8298864/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 18:00:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: <20021126040444.GD31549@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Nov 25, 2 11:04:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1277 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/c24b7d5e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 18:04:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: <10211260811.ZM5095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Peter Turnbull" at Nov 26, 2 08:11:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1273 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/09d85d97/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 18:09:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <20021126134308.GB18782@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Nov 26, 2 02:43:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 918 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/40ab149e/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 26 18:30:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <3DE2CF8D.23681.985E566@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I downloaded it when it was still free. Don't blame him tho. When he > saw its' popularity I guess he decided to get a payback for all the work > he put into it. I don't blame him at all. He deserves every penny. I'm sure it's a great launch point for attornies doing prior art research. It's a clever way to leverage your work and turn it into $$$ :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Nov 26 18:34:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: IMSAI Series Two In-Reply-To: <7E8736D5-FF3C-11D6-B75E-0003938026DE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, Steven Edwards wrote: > I had thought I'd seen about every S-100 machine ever made, but I > recently came across a net reference to the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1. > It looks almost identical to the IMSAI 8080 except that the DPS-1 front > panel is styled more in the way of Digital's later PDP models. I note > that the DPS-1 PSU is somewhat different from the IMSAI 8080, but other > than that. the internals seem to be very similar. If you think that's crazy, wait until you learn about all the other S-100 systems you've never heard of ;) > So, are there any other IMSAI 8080 fans on the list? Plenty! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Nov 26 18:40:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C69A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Tony, > I do wonder just hwat is taught in universities these days :-(. Aside from how to surf the net? Visual Basic and Java are hot topix nowadays. :) > Pity. IMHO, one of the main reason that soft-microcoded CPUs are > interesting is that you can modify yhr micorocode yourself. Dude.. I have a hard time explaining to friends what microcode *is*. They do not get the idea of single-stepping a CPU through its microcode.. --f From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Nov 26 19:04:01 2002 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: What is it Message-ID: <20021126.170307.-479505.0.loedman1@juno.com> Can anyone provide me information on this board, Approximately 4in X 3 1/4 in, plugs into a adapter that replaces the processor, marked "Surprise" 1986 Maynard Electronics, INC. Arrived in an aged IBM PC. It has a NEC V20 chip. Also, anybody interested in, Quadram Quadboard, complete but rather battered. Memory Module, 16 meg IBM part # 11S9111010784AF05P8A 02K2288 DIMM 16M Free for personal use, not for resale Rich Stephenson loedman1@juno.com From allain at panix.com Tue Nov 26 19:08:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope References: Message-ID: <001701c295b1$97756b40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> If it's marginal are you reccomending 2A? I perhaps could go... > I am not recomending uprating the fuse at all I found a 1.5A MDX. The machine stayed on for about 8 seconds. This could have been due to: o More drying time (two weeks) since the last test(s). (it was held outside for a few hours back then) o Formed capacitors? (Could they get better with each trial?) o The MDX classification Might mean "overly slow blow"? > What I would do is check the capacitors and diodes for shorts. Thank-You, will try. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 26 19:12:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Nov 26, 2 11:10:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1219 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021126/abad7fc1/attachment.ksh From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Nov 26 19:49:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: IMSAI Series Two Message-ID: <200211270150.RAA20430@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Steven Edwards" > >Greetings to the list: > >It looks like the IMSAI Series Two (the "S2") is nearing its first >production run. (See http://imsai.net/ and >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imsaiusergroup/) > >I've ordered one of these as a replacement of sorts for the IMSAI 8080 >I assembled back in 1976 but managed to, uh, "lose" in the early 1980s. > It's been a long time since I've had a chance to fool around with a >machine equipped with a real front panel. > >I had thought I'd seen about every S-100 machine ever made, but I >recently came across a net reference to the Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1. >It looks almost identical to the IMSAI 8080 except that the DPS-1 front >panel is styled more in the way of Digital's later PDP models. I note >that the DPS-1 PSU is somewhat different from the IMSAI 8080, but other >than that. the internals seem to be very similar. > >So, are there any other IMSAI 8080 fans on the list? > Hi I have one that I fixed the front panel, a number of bad RAMs, and added an extra RAM card to bring it to 64K. I then read the ROM's in the disK controller ( state machine, not uP ) and figured out how to format, read and write disk. I then wrote my own BIOS and combined it with the CP/M I got from the net. Ya, there are a few IMSAI fans here. I'll have to admit, I'm not overly excited about the IMSAI series two but I do wish them the best of luck. Dwight From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 26 20:12:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers In-Reply-To: "Glen Slick" "Optical paper tape readers" (Nov 26, 11:02) References: Message-ID: <10211270121.ZM5652@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 26, 11:02, Glen Slick wrote: > I was hoping there might be some sort of preassembled optical sensor array > available with the right spacing for paper tape holes, but maybe that is > hoping for too much. If you build one with discrete sensors, is it easy to > find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to side with the correct > spacing? One way would be to get some Perspex (Lexan/Plexiglass) rod and make some short light pipes, and fan them out to get the spread you need. Or make some kind of 9-partition screen out of thin sheet metal, narrow at the top and wider at the bottom where the detectors are. The detectors don't have to be right up against the tape, so long as you don't get light from one bit affecting the detector for adjacent ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 26 20:14:24 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland" (Nov 27, 0:02) References: Message-ID: <10211270115.ZM5647@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 27, 0:02, Tony Duell wrote: > > The coolest item there, for me, is his Jupiter Ace. > I what sense is it 'based on the ZX81'? OK, both have Z80A processors, > both used 2114 RAMs. But [ snippage ] I didn't realise they were so different inside. I knew the Ace didn't use the ULA but I thought the basic architecture was similar to the ZX80/ZX81 (apart from the screen memory, which I knew about). There was certainly a rumour at the time that that was the case, but I dare say that was as much due to the similar size and shape of case as anything else :-) Perhaps "inspired by" is better than "based on". I have the manuals for ZX80, ZX81, and the Jupiter ACE, and the service manual for the ZX81, but the only one of those machines I possess is the common-or-garden ZX81. Twice I've just missed getting a ZX80, and I've seen a few, but I've only seen seen one ACE. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Nov 26 20:16:24 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Tek 310A sillyscope In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: Tek 310A sillyscope" (Nov 26, 15:45) References: <008901c294f8$d2015c60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3DE2EF3E.537E6F43@rain.org> <004f01c2958c$c3216160$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10211270212.ZM5700@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 26, 15:45, John Allain wrote: > FWIW here's some of the fuse types I've found: > > AGC 3AG 3AD GLH MTH MSL, none of which I know 3AG means "Automobile Glass size 3". I suspect those designations have more to do with heating, rupturing, voltage, overload capacity, and most especially materials, shape, and dimensions, than with "slow" or "fast". > for the 1.6A MDL I have > 2A "plain", 2.5A "plain", MSL 2A, MDL 2A > as candidates. I guess a slightly higher value is OK when > replacing a slo with a non slo? Maybe, but how much is "slightly"? The slow-blow was probably intended to cope with short-duration inrush current, but reliably blow if the current was too high for more than perhaps a few seconds. A "fast" fuse will typically blow at 250% - 350% of the nominal value within 1-2 seconds, but a "very fast" fuse might blow within 0.2 seconds. I've seen some "very fast" fuses described as blowing at 1000% current within 0.001 seconds. That's only 10 times nominal current rating, so it wouldn't allow for much of an inrush current! As far as I know (and I am not an expert, just someone who is sad enough to read lots of catalogues), the difference between slow/medium/fast/very fast is primarily tolerance to short-duration overloads like that, ie like inrush current. > Also I imagine all of those letter codes are different blow rates? Nope, see above. Fuses aren't expensive. I'd try to find the right one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Nov 26 20:19:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: References: <3435.4.20.168.135.1038276383.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Nov 25, 2 06:06:23 pm Message-ID: <3157.4.20.168.135.1038363449.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > Actually, all HP handheld calculators made before 1986 used > 56-bit words, and 10-bit instructions. The HP-01 watch was similar > but used a 48-bit word. Tony wrote: > Do you not consider the HP71B to be a handheld HP calculator? It has a calculator mode, but I've always considered it to be a handheld computer. Isn't that what HP called it? From jss at subatomix.com Tue Nov 26 20:21:11 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: More Acquisitions Message-ID: <1662478543.20021126202002@subatomix.com> As promised in a previous message, last Friday I went to the office of the guy with all the VMS manuals. It took me two trips, but when it was over, 11 boxes of varying sizes full of VMS and VAX docs sat in my garage. Unfortunately, some of the older orange and grey binders were empty, and it appears that I now only have full docs for VMS from version 6 to 7.2. Also in there was one manual for MicroVMS 4.something. I didn't get everything, so I will go back next Tuesday to finish up. Today the university surplus shop had put out for sale the MicroVAX II system that I had seen last week. It consists of a BA23 with RX50 and RD5x, a Fujitsu(?) Eagle hard drive, and a Kennedy 9600 tape unit (looks like a DEC TS05). Great, right? Well, un^H^Hfortunately, I had a job interview today, scheduled such that I would be unable to attend the sale. I found a trustworthy-looking person and bribed them to proxy-purchase the item for me during the sale. It worked. So tomorrow morning I will pick up the SA900 disk cabinet for the VAX 6K I got last week, and now a MicroVAX II system. And there's no school for a couple of days. Another great week. The job interview took 3 hours and 20 minutes. I did well. -- Jeffrey Sharp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 20:36:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021127023744.56914.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > I have heard of people using an HP LX palmtop (the 100LX/200LX have a > fuller serial port implementation than does the 95LX) as a terminal for > the type of tasks you mention. The 200LX runs MS-DOS 5.0... If I had any HP Palmtops sitting in a drawer, I probably would have started there. I know that the 95LX was popular years ago as a portable packet terminal. Never had one, though. Wouldn't turn one down if I saw it in a thrift. I'm thinking more towards commodity laptops because they are much more common. The LX palmtops certainly qualify for an out-of-the-box device that's easy to add a terminal emulator to. Thanks for the idea, but it's not quite what I'm working towards. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Nov 26 20:39:01 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers References: Message-ID: <3DE43125.8080104@tiac.net> There is just a sensor, its an array of photodiodes. I think I have a few floating around the workshop. Glen Slick wrote: > I was hoping there might be some sort of preassembled optical sensor > array available with the right spacing for paper tape holes, but maybe > that is hoping for too much. If you build one with discrete sensors, > is it easy to find ones that are narrow enough to stack side to side > with the correct spacing? > > >> Hi >> Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. You could >> scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors ( two for >> each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy photo >> transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear lensed >> LED's make reasonable detectors. >> Use a little imagination. >> Dwight > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Nov 26 21:12:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021127023744.56914.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm thinking more towards commodity laptops because they are much > more common. The LX palmtops certainly qualify for an out-of-the-box > device that's easy to add a terminal emulator to. > > Thanks for the idea, but it's not quite what I'm working towards. One of the guys I used to work with had a lovely little ARM based Psion organizer that he used as a dumb terminal, but that's going to be in the same category as the palmtops above. If you're looking for something more like a commodity laptop, how about just using a commodity laptop? They are, afterall, common as dirt. If you're looking for something that's a non-classic computer, I think the QuickPAD Pro is sort of nifty: http://www.victor-alvarado.com/qppro/ -brian. From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Nov 26 21:25:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:10 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay Message-ID: The winning (only) bidder was vcf! so I guess that means it went to a good home and now I won't regret bidding on it. > >>From: "Bill Sudbrink" > >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>To: > >>Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay > >>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:53:02 -0500 > >> > >>Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was > >>offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It > >>currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I > >>can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: > >> > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 22:04:00 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <200211262250.OAA20146@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20021127040543.95961.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> I was thinking about the PC parallel port route, but instead I built a Remex parallel to RS-232 converter with a Scenix microcontroller: juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/remex.htm This made it easier to hookup to non-PC stuff. The Remex's (the early, silver ones) are built like battleships. The later ones, the "Directors", are micro-driven, not really as well made, mine had RS-422 interface boards and I'm working on reverse-engineering them to RS-232. --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > Hi > I have an old Intel tape reader ( I think it was > made > by REMEX ). It was a parallel output. I took me > about > 20 minutes to make an adapter to plug into the > bi-directional > printer port on my laptop( it took me longer to buy > the > cable since I went to Fry's to buy it). I took me > another > hour or so to look up the info on the parallel port > to write a > simple reader to take input from the printer port to > a file. > I started without schematics or docs on the reader, > just knowing that it was parallel. One should be > able to > find the output strobe and data lines with a logic > probe > ( although I used an oscilloscope ). > Dwight > > > >From: "Loboyko Steve" > >They once made these but I haven't seen any surplus > in > >years. > > > >Until I picked up some paper tape readers on eBay > >(cheap - no one wants readers, they want punches) - > I > >was considering making one out of tiny > >phototransistors/IR emitters using wooden strips > >masked with Mylar tape punched with the RUBOUT > >character. I definitely think this is doable. But > >seriously, I'd look at eBay, because readers with > >nonstandard interface go for cheap. I recently > missed > >a complete Remex reader (with reels, etc) for $20 > >(nobody bid on it), and I DO know how to interface > >these. > > > > > > > >--- "Dwight K. Elvey" > wrote: > >> Hi Glen > >> There isn't much application for things with > this > >> spacing. > >> Remember, you will most likely be connecting this > to > >> a > >> uP. You really don't need to space then in a > >> straight > >> line. You can stager them and reassemble the > entire > >> byte width afterwards. > >> Another though would be to use one of the linear > >> arrays, > >> used in scanners. Most of these are about as wide > as > >> a paper tape. You could use a collimated source > and > >> drag the tape directly over the array. You'd need > >> to do a little image processing but it shouldn't > be > >> too > >> difficult. > >> There are some mechanical options that might > work > >> as well. > >> Like I said, use some imagination. > >> Dwight > >> > >> > >> >From: "Glen Slick" > >> > > >> >I was hoping there might be some sort of > >> preassembled optical sensor array > >> >available with the right spacing for paper tape > >> holes, but maybe that is > >> >hoping for too much. If you build one with > >> discrete sensors, is it easy to > >> >find ones that are narrow enough to stack side > to > >> side with the correct > >> >spacing? > >> > > >> > > >> >>Hi > >> >> Ahh, such concepts as make one come to mind. > >> You could > >> >>scrap a number of mice for the optical sensors > ( > >> two for > >> >>each axis, 4 total per mouse ) or you could buy > >> photo > >> >>transistors from Jameco. In a pinch, the clear > >> lensed > >> >>LED's make reasonable detectors. > >> >> Use a little imagination. > >> >>Dwight > >> > > >> > > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 > >> months FREE*. > >> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 22:08:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021127041010.6659.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I don't think this is as easy as it used to be, with all the chipsets, etc. On an old PC, you could put a magic header and a checksum on a 2716, and basically load an .EXE file into the EPROM. After initialization, the PC BIOS would look for "extra" chips just "under" the BIOS and above the EGA area for additional code. To this day, I beleive that this is the way network cards with BOOTP capability work. on a "real" PC, you can remove the BASIC chips and do this. --- Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Has anyone on the list ever worked with complete > BIOS replacement > > on a commodity Intel motherboard? ISTR Tony Duell > or someone here > > was contemplating doing some task by removing the > ROMs from a 5150 > > board and replacing them in their entirety. With > a decent terminal > > emulator package, that would be one way to > implement a DIY dumb > > terminal. > > http://www.acl.lanl.gov/linuxbios/ > > I don't think these guys are doing exactly what > you want, but it's > pretty close -- they're starting a compressed Linux > kernel from BIOS. > Since the Linux kernel largely ignores the BIOS's > hardware discovery > after it loads, that's a natch. > I bet they'll have some ideas or pointers along > the lines of what > you're doing. > Considering you can get a 486 or PI laptop with a > 10" or better screen > for $50, I think you're onto a really good idea. > > Doc > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Nov 26 22:16:01 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? Message-ID: <200211270417.gAR4Hbg19851@io.crash.com> Back in the mid-90's I kept a Poqet PC in my bag or desk to use as an ad hoc console terminal for data center gear. Wasn't as convenient as the then current HP palmtops, but a heck of a lot cheaper and an easier keyboard if the HPs were a tad small for you. MS-DOS in ROM supported Kermit nicely for ANSI terminal emulation. California Digital (not the newbies that bought VA Linux' hardware operation) still has them, though perhaps a bit (ahem) overpriced: http://www.cadigital.com/poqetpc.htm --S. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Nov 26 23:54:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks's message of "Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:37:44 -0800 (PST)" References: <20021127023744.56914.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200211270539.gAR5dIpk045884@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm thinking more towards commodity laptops because they are much > more common. The LX palmtops certainly qualify for an out-of-the-box > device that's easy to add a terminal emulator to. The 95LX/100LX/200LX have the terminal emulator in the ROM; in fact the 95LX's usefulness as a portable terminal is why I got interested in the HP MS-DOS palmtops way back when. But it's been long enough since I used a 95LX that I don't remember what its is like, other than the less-than-24x80 screen. The 100LX/200LX have a usable VT100 emulation, and have a serial port that can do hardware flow control which is a plus. The 1000CX is a 100LX/200LX that just boots to MS-DOS without the applications that are built-in to the 100LX/200LX; you'd need to add an MS-DOS terminal emulator program to that, but then it would sit in the internal RAMdisk until you let the batteries go flat. Maybe you would put it on a PCMCIA flash card. If you want to go the commodity laptop route, I wonder if the easiest solution wouldn't be a flash device with an IDE connector. Just install it as the "disk drive" and put FreeDOS and your favorite MS-DOS terminal emulator. These things do turn up on eBay fairly regularly. -Frank McConnell From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed Nov 27 00:06:00 2002 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: What is it Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC205B8AF@email1.parl.net> I seem to remember similar third party processor upgrades for IBM XTs, so I would guess it was something like that. David From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 00:14:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Found another Mac mouse Message-ID: <006401c295dc$610c6060$e760ec42@oemcomputer> This is a all beige mouse with a long 9 pin connector. On the connector is the number KPT-0044J-03 and on the mouse is model A2M4015. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Nov 27 00:29:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: What is it References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC205B8AF@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <3DE4666B.2020807@internet1.net> Kane, David (DPRS) wrote: > I seem to remember similar third party processor upgrades for IBM XTs, so I would guess it was something like that. > > David The NEC processors were just that, processors. It was also possible to buy a card from Intel that had a 386 processor on it, that plugged into an ISA slot and also into the 8088 processor socket. That was part of Intel's "Inboard" line of products. I think I may have a NEC V20 somewhere. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Nov 27 01:13:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline References: Message-ID: <009d01c295e4$9e208a50$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I downloaded it when it was still free. Don't blame him tho. When he > > saw its' popularity I guess he decided to get a payback for all the work > > he put into it. > > I don't blame him at all. He deserves every penny. I'm sure it's a great > launch point for attornies doing prior art research. > > It's a clever way to leverage your work and turn it into $$$ :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Not quite clever enough -- the last free version is still available on the Wayback Machine. Start here: http://web.archive.org/web/20010802114248/www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/i ndex.htm From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 27 01:26:01 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Found another Mac mouse Message-ID: >This is a all beige mouse with a long 9 pin connector. On the connector is >the number KPT-0044J-03 and on the mouse is model A2M4015. Going off the model number, it would seem to be an Apple part. If it is all the same color beige (button isn't a slightly darker color), then I would think it is the original Apple II mouse (which would fit with the model number designator A2M for Apple 2 Mouse). I believe these were used with the Apple IIe (pre IIe Platinum). -chris From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 27 01:33:00 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C69A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000901c295e7$54d319a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > Dude.. I have a hard time explaining to friends what microcode *is*. > They do not get the idea of single-stepping a CPU through its microcode.. > (Yes, I know you mention microcode, but ...) As most (all?) current CPUs are to some extent or other superscalar, the concept of single-stepping is, in itself, not well defined for these processors. Andy From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 27 01:35:07 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <10211270121.ZM5652@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000a01c295e7$593dc6c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Another problem with building a paper tape reader is to ensure that the light source is constant - in particular that it does not vary with mains frequency! (Memories of getting a PTR modified to work on my homebrew 6800 system 25 years ago) Andy From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Nov 27 03:21:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline Message-ID: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> >Not quite clever enough -- the last free version is still available on the >Wayback Machine. Start here: > >http://web.archive.org/web/20010802114248/www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/index.htm Well the entries from 2001 onwards ask for money for the 1977-2001 period. The last entry that lists anything at all for 1977+ only goes as far as 1980. If there a URL that lists more of that period in the wayback machine, I've somehow managed to miss it. Antonio From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Nov 27 04:51:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:44:29 GMT." Message-ID: <200211270910.JAA19289@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > [Telephone dial] > > > the input. I was thinking that this would have been the perfect > > low-tech, low-cost input device for a homebrew computer back at that > > time. > > I beleive the Pilot Ace computer had a telephone dial on the operate > console which was used as some kind of single-stepping clock. You could > generate 1 to 10 clock pulses in the obvious way. > > -tony And of course EDSAC had one as a way for the operator to input numbers at run-time. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Nov 27 07:54:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay References: Message-ID: <007101c2961c$b309a680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have the complete HP diag library on 7900A disc cartridge. I can copy it to another 7900A disc cartridge, but then of course you have to have a 7900A drive to read it. I don't think the disc based diags can be copied to mag tape or paper tape, I seem to recall the diag manual saying this wasn't possible due to different formats. IF I've got it backwards (tape to disc vs. disc to tape), then it can be done but only if you boot up DOS or RTE first and use it to do the copies. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 08:40:01 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Was Re: Found another Mac mouse References: Message-ID: <004901c29623$12820d90$7563ec42@oemcomputer> Yes the button is the same color. Thanks for the info. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:27 AM Subject: Re: Found another Mac mouse > >This is a all beige mouse with a long 9 pin connector. On the connector is > >the number KPT-0044J-03 and on the mouse is model A2M4015. > > Going off the model number, it would seem to be an Apple part. If it is > all the same color beige (button isn't a slightly darker color), then I > would think it is the original Apple II mouse (which would fit with the > model number designator A2M for Apple 2 Mouse). I believe these were used > with the Apple IIe (pre IIe Platinum). > > -chris > > > From gil at vauxelectronics.com Wed Nov 27 09:26:00 2002 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #295 - 28 msgs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20021127083146.0188b6f0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Godfrey: You may be interested in the greenkeys teletype email list -- lots of good folks with questions, answers, etc. Mostly 5-level baudot machines, but some ascii stuff too. It averages a few emails a day (not overwhelming). You need to go to http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys to sign up. You can poke through the archives at: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/ gil >From: "Godfrey Manning" >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:00 PM >Subject: Flexowriter > > >> Does anybody in the UK (apart from me) possess a Mk. 1 Friden Flexowriter? >> Can I be of any help (info/spares) to such a person? >> Godfrey. ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 27 10:02:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Found another Mac mouse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32819.64.169.63.74.1038413045.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Going off the model number, it would seem to be an Apple part. If it is > all the same color beige (button isn't a slightly darker color), then I > would think it is the original Apple II mouse (which would fit with the > model number designator A2M for Apple 2 Mouse) The leading A2 certainly means it's an Apple product relating to the Apple II family, but the M doesn't make it a mouse. Lots of things were A2Mxxxx, and only a tiny number were mice. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Nov 27 10:07:01 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: <000901c295e7$54d319a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C69A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <000901c295e7$54d319a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <32824.64.169.63.74.1038413323.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > As most (all?) current CPUs are to some extent or other superscalar, the > concept of single-stepping is, in itself, not well defined for these > processors. Certainly it is. There are traditionally two kinds of single-stepping: Single-clock-cycle (implemented in hardware): the processor does whatever it normally does on one one clock cycle every time you "press the button". A superscalar processor can do that just as well as any other processor, though it will typically be executing part or all of several instructions every time you give it a clock. Single-instruction (can be hardware on some systems, but more commonly implemented in software): my debugger still does that just fine, even on the latest superscalar processors. I use it all the time. It would be pretty tough to debug software if one couldn't do that. From cb at mythtech.net Wed Nov 27 10:42:00 2002 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Found another Mac mouse Message-ID: >The leading A2 certainly means it's an Apple product relating to the >Apple II family, but the M doesn't make it a mouse. Lots of things >were A2Mxxxx, and only a tiny number were mice. Sorry, brain fart on my part. You are of course correct. A good number of items have M in the model number that are not mice (for instance, the entire(?) Mac line). -chris From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Nov 27 11:10:01 2002 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C8333@msx1.cboe.com> I have a optical paper tape reader called a "TPR-1" connected to my Altair. We bought it as a kit. It has a pretty blue box that matches the computer. It uses a standardized part that has phototransistors spaced correctly to read paper tape. The sprocket hole also has a phototransistor that is used as the clock. This is how we always loaded Altair Basic. I saw the manual a few days ago. I'll see if I can scan it. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Andy Holt Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Optical paper tape readers Another problem with building a paper tape reader is to ensure that the light source is constant - in particular that it does not vary with mains frequency! (Memories of getting a PTR modified to work on my homebrew 6800 system 25 years ago) Andy From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 12:04:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Found another Mac mouse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, chris wrote: > > This is a all beige mouse with a long 9 pin connector. On the > > connector is the number KPT-0044J-03 and on the mouse is model > > A2M4015. > > Going off the model number, it would seem to be an Apple part. If it is > all the same color beige (button isn't a slightly darker color), then I > would think it is the original Apple II mouse (which would fit with the > model number designator A2M for Apple 2 Mouse). I believe these were > used with the Apple IIe (pre IIe Platinum). I'd have to unpack my Apple II mouse, but I know the part number is different than that of the early Mac mice. The mouse requires a special card to be installed in the Apple II system. The IIe Platinum works fine with the mouse, as does the standard IIe. I've never tried it with a II+ or II, but it might work ok. I doubt that much software that could make use of the mouse would run on the older II systems though. The Apple IIgs came standard with a mouse, but IIRC, it was just a plain ADB mouse. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 27 12:35:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <200211270539.gAR5dIpk045884@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Frank McConnell wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm thinking more towards commodity laptops because they are much > > more common... > > The LX palmtops certainly qualify for an out-of-the-box > > device that's easy to add a terminal emulator to. > > The 95LX/100LX/200LX have the terminal emulator in the ROM... I didn't know that. The screen size is a limitation, of course. Does it act like a tiny VT100 (ANSI escape sequences)? Is there a UNIX termcap for it? > If you want to go the commodity laptop route, I wonder if the easiest > solution wouldn't be a flash device with an IDE connector. Just install > it as the "disk drive" and put FreeDOS and your favorite MS-DOS terminal > emulator. These things do turn up on eBay fairly regularly. I have several adapters - 3.5" desktop (fits in a drive bay, takes a full-sized PCMCIA card) and two models of CF adapters (mounts in place of a 2.5" IDE drive). What I lack are enough CF or PCMCIA cards to dedicate them to a task. I've been looking around for 2MB-4MB PCMCIA flash cards for a couple of years now, and not finding them. There must be a cache of them somewhere. They _used_ to be common for digital cameras. I'd buy a dozen if they were cheap enough - I play with floppy- based Linux routers. 2MB of flash is plenty for what I'm doing. At the moment, I have 1 8MB CF card and a couple of 16MB CF cards. Plenty of space, but I'd rather not lock them away for an indeterminate amount of time. Anyone know where to get a stack of low-capacity PCMCIA or CF cards? I'm thinking in the $0.50-$1.00/MB price range (since 16MB cards can be had for $10 retail). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 27 12:42:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Found another Mac mouse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021127184328.70955.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, chris wrote: > > I'd have to unpack my Apple II mouse, but I know the part number is > different than that of the early Mac mice. The mouse requires a special > card to be installed in the Apple II system. The IIe Platinum works fine > with the mouse, as does the standard IIe. I've never tried it with a II+ > or II, but it might work ok. I doubt that much software that could make > use of the mouse would run on the older II systems though. I used to write kiddie games for the C-64 and Apple II, c. 1984-1985, for a company called Software Productions. Our stuff was published by Reader's Digest Software - "Micro Mother Goose", "Micro Habitats" and "Alphabet Beasts and Company" were our top titles (as an aside, we also supported the BBC Micro and eventually the IBM PC and PCjr, but I didn't work on those products). We had one of those Apple II mouse cards. We even added support to the "London Bridgeout" interactive part of MMG (it was a simple "Breakout" clone). So a) yes; it works with the Apple II, and b) I agree; you won't find much Apple II software that supports it. Somewhere, I have the card. Might be in an Apple II in the attic. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 12:54:00 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Not quite clever enough -- the last free version is still available on > > the Wayback Machine. Start here: > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20010802114248/www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/index.htm > > Well the entries from 2001 onwards ask for money for the 1977-2001 > period. The last entry that lists anything at all for 1977+ only goes as > far as 1980. If there a URL that lists more of that period in the > wayback machine, I've somehow managed to miss it. The Wayback Machine uses some embedded Javascript to rewrite links, so you might need to try a Javascript enabled browser. Without Javascript, links are going to point to the original site instead of web.archive.org. -Toth From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 27 13:06:00 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03c701c29648$32622620$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> there's always epay;). this guy seems to have quite a few 4mb cards- the smallest sizes I've seen for about 2-4$US. You might be able to get a qty price. I have no connection to this seller. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1941201783 Now if I could only get a nice cheap (<10$) cf to IDE adapter- the kind that plugs piggyback style right onto the motherboard 40 pin IDE header. I've seen may source including the TAPR- but they tend to range from 25$-75$US. If I could source some cheap ($<5) through hole CF right angle connectors, it would be worth it to lay out a cheap double side pcb of a few sq inches/ heinz > Anyone know where to get a stack of low-capacity PCMCIA or CF cards? I'm > thinking in the $0.50-$1.00/MB price range (since 16MB cards can be had > for $10 retail). > > -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 27 13:32:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <03c701c29648$32622620$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <20021127193341.80479.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Heinz Wolter wrote: > there's always epay;). this guy seems to have quite a few 4mb cards- > the smallest sizes I've seen for about 2-4$US. That's not too bad. > You might be able to get a qty price... That would be better. I haven't hit ePay because I don't want to get nibbled up by $3-$6 each in shipping. It's cheaper to wait for a sale on 16MB cards at the corner store. I'm interested in getting a stack of flash cards in one go, for one shipping amount. Anything else gets too expensive to justify. > Now if I could only get a nice cheap (<10$) cf to IDE adapter- > the kind that plugs piggyback style right onto the motherboard > 40 pin IDE header. I've seen may source including the TAPR- > but they tend to range from 25$-75$US.... I've not seen anything that cheap. The TAPR one is about as cheap as it gets. I got a few 3.5" 40-pin-connector w/hard-disk-style molex power connector for about that (a woman wrote me to offer them to me because she saw me discussing them on some webified mailing list somewhere), but they are PCMCIA, not CF, so you'd need an adapter, plus they take up lots more room than the TAPR units. > If I could source some cheap ($<5) through hole CF right angle > connectors... I have never seen thru-hole CF adapters, only SMT. Doesn't mean there aren't any; I've just never seen any. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From als at thangorodrim.de Wed Nov 27 13:44:00 2002 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021126201136.GB22525@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:10:18AM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I was musing about the state of VT100s and other dumb terminals and > had a few ideas zing by... > > Where I'm going with this is embeddability and portability. Obviously, > for use such as we had in the old days, a real Wyse or real VT100 or > VT220 is the way to go... simple and easy... plug it in, turn it on. > > I have used my Palm Pilot as a portable terminal for reconfiguring > Cisco routers (VT100 app and a travel cable and the appropriate > RS-232 dongles). My boss at the time flipped when he saw me do it > (everybody else dragged a laptop into the server room). There are > just times when I'd like a laptop-sized-or-smaller ANSI terminal. > > I've also tried to think of ways to adapt a Palm Pilot with a permanent > keyboard, but I'm not sure there's a way to do it with only one serial > port (terminals typically have at least two, even if one is dedicated > to servicing the keyboard and somewhat "invisible" to normal operation. > > So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? > Anyone get any further? I use my trusty HP200LX for this job. Its a rather small handheld, made by HP (mine AFAIR in 1993) and basically a XT-in-your-pocket. With 80186 CPU, 640K RAM (+ 1.3 MB RAM-based disk (the 2 MB model)), MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM (the last stable OS this company made). Has a bunch of built in applications, among them a terminal application with a very good VT100 emulation. The screen does 80x25 characters (or 640x200 pixels in CGA graphics mode). Usable keyboard, serial connector (but with special connector, you either need the original serial cable or you can rig your own if you know which side of a soldering iron gets hot) and a PCMCIA slot. Lives a few weeks of use on a set of batteries and seems to be almost indestructible. And it is "instant-on" - the power button just sends it to sleep. The only time I have to actually boot it (takes a few seconds) is when I'm programming on it and my code decided to branch off to neverland ... Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 27 14:37:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? > Anyone get any further? Nope. I just use my Psion Seris 5. It does everything you describe (portable instant on VT-100 terminal) and more ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Wed Nov 27 14:45:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <3DE529DA.B693431B@rain.org> Tothwolf wrote: > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20010802114248/www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/index.htm > > The Wayback Machine uses some embedded Javascript to rewrite links, so you > might need to try a Javascript enabled browser. Without Javascript, links > are going to point to the original site instead of web.archive.org. Thanks, turning on Javascript did it! But it is still not what I am looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've still been unable to find such a list. From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 27 14:48:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > If you're looking for something more like a commodity laptop, how about > just using a commodity laptop? They are, afterall, common as dirt. 8086-based laptops with full 80x24 screens can be found in thrift stores sometimes, and for cheap. The ACCRC gets in tons of these. They would make great portable terminals. I still prefer my Psion though (2 AA batteries ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 27 14:50:08 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Glen Slick wrote: > The winning (only) bidder was vcf! so I guess that means it went to a good > home and now I won't regret bidding on it. I couldn't resist :) I just hope the shipping isn't too high, though we're both in the same zone so it should be reasonable. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Nov 27 14:53:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <3DE529DA.B693431B@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Thanks, turning on Javascript did it! But it is still not what I am > looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and > the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've > still been unable to find such a list. Hans Pufal ran a site that had such a list. It's been comatose for a couple years now. When is it coming back, Hans? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From daveb at computerhistory.org Wed Nov 27 15:13:01 2002 From: daveb at computerhistory.org (Dave Babcock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: computer timeline Message-ID: <011c01c2965a$2f1abe20$a77ba8c0@merlin> On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Thanks, turning on Javascript did it! But it is still not what I am > looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and > the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've > still been unable to find such a list. Here's the link you may be remembering: http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/complist.html I like this one because it gives references to where much of the information came from. Thanks, DaveB Volunteer, Computer History Museum From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 27 15:43:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <03c701c29648$32622620$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127161944.0287b640@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Heinz Wolter may have mentioned these words: [snip] >Now if I could only get a nice cheap (<10$) cf to IDE adapter- >the kind that plugs piggyback style right onto the motherboard >40 pin IDE header. I've seen may source including the TAPR- >but they tend to range from 25$-75$US Well, I can find a *little* cheaper than $25 -- Cloud9 has a CFIDE adapter for $20 -- will plug straight into the IDE port from the looks of it -- and the guy builds & sells 'em to support the CoCo community. Find it here: http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/CFIDE.html Anyway, HTH! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 27 15:48:01 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline In-Reply-To: <3DE529DA.B693431B@rain.org> References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127164727.026e5a80@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Marvin Johnston may have mentioned these words: >But it is still not what I am >looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and >the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've >still been unable to find such a list. Dunno if this will help you, but there's a pretty decent little database at: http://www.machine-room.org/ The guy's been running it for years, so it's fairly comprehensive... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From marvin at rain.org Wed Nov 27 15:52:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: computer timeline References: <011c01c2965a$2f1abe20$a77ba8c0@merlin> Message-ID: <3DE53EDD.165571E8@rain.org> Dave Babcock wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Thanks, turning on Javascript did it! But it is still not what I am > > looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and > > the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've > > still been unable to find such a list. > > Here's the link you may be remembering: > > http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/complist.html > > I like this one because it gives references to where much of the information > came from. That wasn't the one I remembered, but it does exactly what I was looking for; thanks!!! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 27 16:00:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? References: Message-ID: <009001c29660$91fd0420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Feldman, Robert wrote: > I have heard of people using an HP LX palmtop (the 100LX/200LX have a > fuller serial port implementation than does the 95LX) as a terminal > for the type of tasks you mention. Yup. I can confirm that it can be done. I've done it with my HP 700LX (a 200LX with a docking port for a Nokia 2110). > The 200LX runs MS-DOS 5.0 on an > i80186, so you should be able to get a number of terminal emulation > programs that will work on it. I though the 200LX used an 8086, more specifically an Intel HORNET embedded CPU? BTW, the 700LX has a built in dumb-terminal program. Press the "&..." button, then select "Data Comm" from the menu. It works. Just. Just throwing my tuppence into the well... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 27 16:09:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? References: <020001c294b1$bec52ab0$46f8b8ce@impac.com> <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <20021126201136.GB22525@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <009601c29661$f2e84e60$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Alexander Schreiber wrote: > I use my trusty HP200LX for this job. Its a rather small handheld, [snip] > MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM (the last stable OS this company made). It actually uses Datalight ROM-DOS -- a ROMable version of MS-DOS 5.0 with most of the utilities removed. Someone (an IT tech, no less) once asked me if I could run Windows 98 on my HP 700LX. My response was "You are joking, right?" :) 200LXs make very nice portable terminals. I'm planning to add an RS232 buffer to mine before it gets connected to any unknown equipment. I've even had the thing grab my e-mail and then dump it into cc:Mail. Lots of fun. And all this with a 1MB RAM drive and an 8MB Sandisk Compactflash card... > Has a bunch > of built in applications, among them a terminal application with a > very good VT100 emulation. Do you mean Datacomm? I don't think it's capable of VT100 emulation; I've never seen it, anyway. > serial > connector (but with special connector, you either need the original > serial cable or you can rig your own if you know which side of a > soldering iron gets hot) You can use the FCI Minitek connectors (total pain to wire up without the $200 crimper), but I wouldn't recommend using them. The Harwin 2x5 2mm-pitch connectors look like they'd work, too. > and a PCMCIA slot. Lives a few weeks of use > on a set of batteries and seems to be almost indestructible. Indeed it is - my 700LX has been dropped onto a thick carpet once, a thin carpet once (broke the case latch) and concrete from 4ft in the air once. And it still works. Anyone want to do that to a Palmpilot? I know of a Psion 3c that fell 3ft off a bookshelf (with the clamshell shut) and the LCD glass got shattered! > And it is "instant-on" - the power button just sends it to sleep. The > only time I have to actually boot it (takes a few seconds) is when I'm > programming on it and my code decided to branch off to neverland ... I know the feeling. Linux coredumps, DJGPP SIGSEGVs, Windows bluescreens and the HPLX just locks solid. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 27 16:24:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels References: Message-ID: <00c001c29664$0cedc400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: >> I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find >> yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into >> the PS/2 > The only reason I would dislike that suggestion is that it's one less > keyboard for me ;-). I _love_ those keyboards -- I am typing on one at > the moment. I've been using a Dell keyboard that acts like it's full of microswitches - very nice. At the moment I'm using a BTC (Taiwanese) keyboard with a gap between the T-Y, G-H and B-N key pairs. Oh, and it's got a Synaptics Touchpad fitted. Nice keyboard, but it's a bit too, er... QUIET! I want an IBM PS/2 full-of-microswitches really-clicky real-dream-to-use keyboard!!! Anyone feel like parting with one? At this point I don't even give a damn if I have to pull the thing apart and fix it myself - I want a clicky keyboard :-) :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Nov 27 16:48:00 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? Message-ID: No, it is a Hornet chip, but it has an 80C186 in it. Running MSD.exe will show this information. See http://www.daniel-hertrich.de/200lx/block.pdf for a block diagram of the chip, with the 80C186 clearly indicated. There are also a lot of references to the '186 in programming information for the LX's. -----Original Message----- From: Philip Pemberton [mailto:philpem@dsl.pipex.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:02 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? I though the 200LX used an 8086, more specifically an Intel HORNET embedded CPU? From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Nov 27 17:10:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels References: <00c001c29664$0cedc400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <011c01c2966a$5c219640$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Philip Pemberton wrote: > I've been using a Dell keyboard that acts like it's full of > microswitches - very nice. Woops - maybe I wasn't very clear on this. I've been using a Dell k/b at my place of work (if you can call it that), but I actually own a rather naff BTC keyboard... Sorry for the confusion (if any)... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 17:24:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? > > Anyone get any further? > > Nope. I just use my Psion Seris 5. It does everything you describe > (portable instant on VT-100 terminal) and more ;) Lucky ;P I came across a portable VT once in a resale shop, but the guy wanted $$$ for it, so I dunno what became of it. It looked like a 8-9" black cube, and the keyboard folded down to expose the screen. The keyboard wasn't full size, but for temporary applications, I don't think that would matter much. Say, why don't the folks who want to turn laptop into a terminal look into a bootable PCMCIA memory card. Even 4MB or so would be enough to load a Linux kernel (or *BSD ;P) with libc and minicom, or even DOS 5 with Procomm Plus 2.0. Most of the 486 laptops I've used had a bios setting that allowed booting such PCMCIA memory devices... -Toth From allain at panix.com Wed Nov 27 17:31:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021127161944.0287b640@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <002201c2966d$39201240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Well, I can find a *little* cheaper than $25 -- Cloud9 has a CFIDE > adapter for $20 -- will plug straight into the IDE port from the looks > of it... > http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/CFIDE.html On the site it states: "all CompactFlash cards from 8MB up to 512MB" I wonder if that's a CoCo limitation? Adaptors I've seen like this are completely passive with nearly 1:1 connection mappings and no logic at all. John A. some logic present From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Nov 27 17:56:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <002201c2966d$39201240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021127161944.0287b640@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127185405.026fbe88@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John Allain may have mentioned these words: > > Well, I can find a *little* cheaper than $25 -- Cloud9 has a CFIDE > > adapter for $20 -- will plug straight into the IDE port from the looks > > of it... > > http://www.cloud9tech.com/Hardware/CFIDE.html > >On the site it states: >"all CompactFlash cards from 8MB up to 512MB" >I wonder if that's a CoCo limitation? >Adaptors I've seen like this are completely passive >with nearly 1:1 connection mappings and no logic at >all. This is MHO, but I honestly don't think there's a limitation at all -- anything less than 8MB would be near pointless to monkey with as a "HD" for the CoCo, and >512MB prolly didn't exist at the time... -- Unless, of course, there's the possibility that there were some flashcards that were smaller than 8MB that didn't have the full ATA spec built-in - these might not work - not due to the adapter, but due to the drivers for the CoCo IDE interface... 'Course, you could zing him off an email - he'd be the best one to talk to about that... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 27 18:36:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: OS disks for HP150A In-Reply-To: <001901c29551$2fec2550$365b81c1@entrix.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021127193819.191f962c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Kim, You're in luck. I have three HP 150s and a complete set of disks. Which museum is taking it? Joe At 01:39 PM 11/26/02 -0000, you wrote: >Hello, I wonder if anyone can help me. >I have an early 1980s Hewlett Packard HP150A which I am trying to find a >home for in a museum. The system is working but I can't find the MSDOS >(or application) disks for it which were on 3.5" floppy. >Does anyone know a source of such things? I think I may have a museum >interested but I would rather donate it as a fully working system. > >Thanks in anticipation >Kim Harris > > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > >This email is intended for the addressed recipient only. If it has >reached you in error, please return to postmaster@entrix.co.uk. >Messages are sent by individuals and do not necessarily state >the policy or opinion of Entrix Computing Ltd. >Email is scanned for viruses and content by MailMarshal and >Norman Virus Control. > From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Nov 27 18:41:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:11 2005 Subject: Poquet PC Message-ID: <3DE512A5.1951.125C53E6@localhost> Nice. Virtually identical to the Sharp PC 3100, but the Sharp had proprietory 10pin RS232, 20pin Parallel, and fdd sockets. It ran an 80C88 at 10mhz as opposed to the Poquets' 16mhz. Only type 1 PCcard slots as opposed to the Poquets' type I/II. Uses 4 x1.5v cells. Based on the specs I think the Poquet wins out. But a later machine. These guys have the PC 3000. About the same price. http://www.notebooksplus.com/pc3000.htm This guy has done some amazing things with the 2MB PC3100. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Strand/3387/pc3story.html Lawrence > Back in the mid-90's I kept a Poqet PC in my bag or desk to use as an > ad hoc console terminal for data center gear. Wasn't as convenient as > the then current HP palmtops, but a heck of a lot cheaper and an > easier keyboard if the HPs were a tad small for you. MS-DOS in ROM > supported Kermit nicely for ANSI terminal emulation. > > California Digital (not the newbies that bought VA Linux' hardware > operation) still has them, though perhaps a bit (ahem) overpriced: > > http://www.cadigital.com/poqetpc.htm > > --S. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 27 18:46:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: <10211270115.ZM5647@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Peter Turnbull" at Nov 27, 2 01:15:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1709 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021127/7f65c54d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 27 18:49:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021127041010.6659.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Nov 26, 2 08:10:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1127 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021127/8a36dd42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 27 18:52:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <009601c29661$f2e84e60$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Nov 27, 2 10:11:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 377 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021127/319397d3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 27 18:56:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: 8 bit vs other Computers. In-Reply-To: <3157.4.20.168.135.1038363449.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Nov 26, 2 06:17:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021127/6836d835/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 27 19:26:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Poquet PC In-Reply-To: <3DE512A5.1951.125C53E6@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Nice. Virtually identical to the Sharp PC 3100, but the Sharp had > proprietory 10pin RS232, 20pin Parallel, and fdd sockets. It ran an > 80C88 at 10mhz as opposed to the Poquets' 16mhz. Only type 1 PCcard > slots as opposed to the Poquets' type I/II. Uses 4 x1.5v cells. Based on > the specs I think the Poquet wins out. But a later machine. Well,... I don't have a Sharp 3100, but a few more things to consider about the Poqet: It does NOT have serial, parallel, nor FDD ports. It has just one "expansion port" into which you connect a fancy (not just cable) connector for Serial, floppy, or parallel. The serial is widely available, the parallel is a little rare, and the floppy is with their drive (not very common). Because the Poqet started using their cards BEFORE PCMCIA was standardized, the standard evolved into something that sometimes differs slightly form theirs, and not all cards will work. But two slots is nice. There were a couple of generic Poqet wannabes (I have one labelled Momorex), that do have some built-in ports. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Nov 27 19:36:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > [Replacing the ROMs on a PC motherboard) > Why do you think I intend to do this to a 5150 or 5160 board? :-) An appreciation for how much nicer they are than the later stuff? > > On an old PC, you could put a magic header and a > > checksum on a 2716, and basically load an .EXE file > It's actually just an 8088 machine code program with the header and > checksum. No .EXE file header as well. .COM style code (without the ORG 100h) would be one of the easiest ways to do it if one wanted to use "modern" development tools (such as MASM 1.0, LINK, EXE2BIN) > > capability work. on a "real" PC, you can remove the > > BASIC chips and do this. On a REAL 5150, you don't need to remove the BASIC. There is already an EXTRA ROM socket! [Unverified CCUL: IBM asked Microsoft how large the ROM BASIC would be. Microsoft said, "32K". IBM's engineers figured that things might not go entirely as planned, so they put in one extra ROM socket "in case it went over the targetted 32K". The Microsoft people were miffed that their guess of 32k hadn't been taken as being accurate. So, when they were done (at about 30 or 31 K), they padded it out with incompletely implemented stuff to bring it up to EXACTLY 32768 (32K) bytes.] > AFAIK the ROM BASIC on an IBM machine doesn't have the header, etc. It's > just some code at a known adresss that's exectued by the appropriate INT. > > Very early 5150s don't implement the BIOS extensions IIRC, but later 5150 > BIOSes and all 5160s, etc, do. But even [particularly] the earliest had the EXTRA ROM socket. 'Course it's nice to put your add-ons on an ISA card, so that they can be switched more easily to other machines, including NEWER stuff, like 5160 (XT) and AT. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Nov 27 19:40:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: New Find Today Message-ID: <011001c2967f$1ae0ac60$7563ec42@oemcomputer> While at the Goodwill I picked up a black case and inside was a Bridge Challenger III with power supply and manual. It's missing thirteen dealer cards. These cards are read my a built in scanner. This unit was built by Fidelity Electronics LTD. From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Nov 27 20:40:43 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels References: <00c001c29664$0cedc400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <011c01c2966a$5c219640$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DE58354.8040006@charter.net> I used to have several Northgate Omnikey keyboards. They had a double set of programmable function keys and the keycaps could be pulled and replaced in several different layouts. The control and caps lock keys could be rearranged as well. I left them at my ex's house. The other keyboard that I have run across is the Focus line. I have one on my BeBox now. It is a programmable keyboard, full microswitch type, with 132 keys and a built-in calculator. I see the Focus models in surplus shops for five bucks all of the time. James Philip Pemberton wrote: >Philip Pemberton wrote: > > >>I've been using a Dell keyboard that acts like it's full of >>microswitches - very nice. >> >> >Woops - maybe I wasn't very clear on this. I've been using a Dell k/b at my >place of work (if you can call it that), but I actually own a rather naff >BTC keyboard... >Sorry for the confusion (if any)... > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Nov 27 20:44:00 2002 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Poqet PC Message-ID: <200211280242.gAS2g1g22532@io.crash.com> I've muddied the waters a bit... The link I included was for the later Fujitsu Poqet PC Plus. Fujitsi bought out the original company before or while the second generation product was being offered. CA Digital is giving specs for the Plus model, which is what I believe they're selling. Gee, I wonder if this is covered on one of the timelines people have been discussing... The original Poqet PC has _no_ backlight, uses 2 std AA cells, and MS-DOS 3.3 in ROM. Not sure how much memory is in there, ISTR at least 512K and maybe more. There's a small ramdisk on D: for AUTOEXEC/CONFIG.SYS, and the DOS ROM is C:. The two PCMCIA slots at A:/B: are nice, especially with the 2MB SRAM cards - however I appear to have forgotten to refresh the lithium backup batteries in mine :^} Fred's right, the original Poqet brings pretty much the whole XT bus out to a connector on the back. I like the idea of hooking this up to a backplane... B^P Somewhere I have the docs from when I bought the thing, but it may be years before they surface again. --S. From mhscc at canada.com Wed Nov 27 21:38:00 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (MHStein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: <001401c2968f$f97cf180$e5ac1dd1@msed03> I've got a few PPT readers (SCM & Burroughs, parallel I/F) if anybody wants to play around with one; also some punches and parts. Contact me off-list if interested. mike --------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com From dan at ekoan.com Wed Nov 27 22:26:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Found another Mac mouse) In-Reply-To: <20021127184328.70955.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021127231922.038d22e0@enigma> At 10:43 AM 11/27/02 -0800, you wrote: >We had one of those Apple II mouse cards. [...] >Somewhere, I have the card. Might be in an Apple II in the attic. I have just put up a photo of the mouse interface card at http://www.decodesystems.com/apple-mice.html Scroll down to the bottom to see it. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From hansp at aconit.org Thu Nov 28 01:35:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: computer timeline References: <011c01c2965a$2f1abe20$a77ba8c0@merlin> Message-ID: <3DE5C7B1.6080604@aconit.org> Dave Babcock wrote: > http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/complist.html > I like this one because it gives references to where much of the information > came from. OK, ok, ok already. This link is to a raw text file taken from my web site when it was active. There are quite a few versions of this on the web and none of them cite the origin !! I have taken the time to put up most of my original site at www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC None of the CGI scripts work (yet) so you cannot search but the formatted lists are working. Some of the links may also not work yet. I will try and put up the CGI scripts soon and do some updates also. Let me know if you use the list, feedback always helps motivate updates ;-) Regards, -- hbp From foo at siconic.com Thu Nov 28 01:39:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Poquet PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > It does NOT have serial, parallel, nor FDD ports. It has just one > "expansion port" into which you connect a fancy (not just cable) connector > for Serial, floppy, or parallel. The serial is widely available, the > parallel is a little rare, and the floppy is with their drive (not very > common). Yes, and the cables are bulky to boot. It's a nice machine, but not very good as a dumb terminal. I believe I have all three cables you mention. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Nov 28 07:39:00 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Old Tech - Sort of Message-ID: <1038490897.24568.16.camel@winnt.4mcnabb.net> Well, my Pentium II motherboard bit the dust the other day (Thank You American Electric Power!), so I went to the local computer parts store in search of a new one. Being somewhat of a vacuum tube fan, I settled on the AOpen AX4B-533TUBE board. Yes, this one has a vacuum tube. It uses a dual triode (Sovtek 6922) as the audio amplifier. The board also sports a 1.5Ghz Pentium 4 and DDR SDRAM, along with the usual bells and whistles such as LAN, Serial, Parallel, etc. The audio out of the board sounds great, as long as you make sure you have the right impedance speakers/headphones plugged in. My normal 8 ohm headphones were badly overdriven, but plugging the computer into my guitar amp (sounds weird, don't it?) delivered that nice, wide vacuum tube tonality that normal sound cards just can't deliver. I really gotta hand it to the guys at AOpen for delivering a wonderful mix of new and old tech. I do, however, really need to install a window in my case so I can bask in the warm glow of the vacuum tube. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From daveb at computerhistory.org Thu Nov 28 10:08:00 2002 From: daveb at computerhistory.org (Dave Babcock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: computer timeline Message-ID: <001501c296f8$c5acfee0$a77ba8c0@merlin> Hans wrote: > OK, ok, ok already. This link is to a raw text file taken from my web > site when it was active. There are quite a few versions of this on the > web and none of them cite the origin !! I hadn't realized that you were the source of the list. The person with the link I cited was wrong in not crediting you. > I have taken the time to put up most of my original site at > www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC Thank you, thank you, thank you. For creating the list in the first place and sharing it freely with the rest of us. > None of the CGI scripts work (yet) so you cannot search but the > formatted lists are working. Some of the links may also not work yet. > > I will try and put up the CGI scripts soon and do some updates also. > > Let me know if you use the list, feedback always helps motivate updates ;-) I use the list and find it very helpful. As I can, I'll be sending a few updates and corrections for the machines I'm familiar with. Thanks, DaveB Volunteer, Computer History Museum From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Nov 28 10:49:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021127161944.0287b640@mail.30below.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021127185405.026fbe88@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3DE648E9.9080504@jetnet.ab.ca> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > zmerch@30below.com > > What do you do when Life gives you lemons, > and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? Make pie! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Nov 28 13:00:00 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Keyboard key labels In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:26:36 GMT." <00c001c29664$0cedc400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200211280849.IAA06441@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi "Philip Pemberton" said: > Tony Duell wrote: > >> I know Mr. Duell may not like my suggestion... but why not just find > >> yourself an IBM PS/2 'clicky' keyboard and use that, plugged into > >> the PS/2 > > The only reason I would dislike that suggestion is that it's one less > > keyboard for me ;-). I _love_ those keyboards -- I am typing on one at > > the moment. > I've been using a Dell keyboard that acts like it's full of microswitches - > very nice. > At the moment I'm using a BTC (Taiwanese) keyboard with a gap between the > T-Y, G-H and B-N key pairs. Oh, and it's got a Synaptics Touchpad fitted. > Nice keyboard, but it's a bit too, er... QUIET! > I want an IBM PS/2 full-of-microswitches really-clicky real-dream-to-use > keyboard!!! Anyone feel like parting with one? At this point I don't even > give a damn if I have to pull the thing apart and fix it myself - I want a > clicky keyboard :-) :-) Cherry make some quite nice ones with MK or ML series keyswitches, including a little lap-top size one. Not cheap and hard to find but quite good. I've been using one of their G80s for a while - since I ran out of IBM ones anyway. In the UK keyboard.com sell re-furbished IBMs and also some Cherry models. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From hansp at aconit.org Thu Nov 28 15:22:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: computer timeline References: <001501c296f8$c5acfee0$a77ba8c0@merlin> Message-ID: <3DE6896F.2000106@aconit.org> Dave Babcock wrote: > I hadn't realized that you were the source of the list. The person with the > link I cited was wrong in not crediting you. Agreed, I have seen my list on several sites, never a single attribution and always the same crappy text version. >>I have taken the time to put up most of my original site at >> www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC > Thank you, thank you, thank you. For creating the list in the first place > and sharing it freely with the rest of us. You're welsome.... > I use the list and find it very helpful. As I can, I'll be sending a few > updates and corrections for the machines I'm familiar with. Many thanks.... -- hbp From marvin at rain.org Thu Nov 28 15:51:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: computer timeline References: <001501c296f8$c5acfee0$a77ba8c0@merlin> <3DE6896F.2000106@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3DE6901D.75810ED2@rain.org> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Dave Babcock wrote: > > >>I have taken the time to put up most of my original site at > >> www.aconit.org/hbp/CCC > > > Thank you, thank you, thank you. For creating the list in the first place > > and sharing it freely with the rest of us. > > You're welsome.... > > > I use the list and find it very helpful. As I can, I'll be sending a few > > updates and corrections for the machines I'm familiar with. Yes, many thanks for reposting the list! And that was the list I had seen and was looking for :). From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Nov 28 16:59:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> Ethan Dicks wrote: > So has anyone else wrestled with how to cobble up a portable VT-100? > Anyone get any further? I have a gadget called a Cybiko, which is a handheld computer designed for teenagers to run games on and chat via a wireless link. It has a serial port, there's a terminal emulator for it, and there's also a Linux-based development kit for it. You can get them in a variety of fashionable colours! :-) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Nov 28 17:57:05 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: 23 November 2002 12:40 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: STM Pied Piper > > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > > > So I wasn't TOO late then :) Did yours come with any detailed servicing > > docs? I've got the full $125 (whee) technical manual but no servicing > > manual other than level 3 which gets as far as > > if-the-lights-do-this-then-send-it-back-for-repair. I've resurrected 2, > > one of which was the prototype so I'm happy, but have 3 more dead ones. > > I don't believe I received any docs for it. Just the machine and an > external disk drive. Oh well. Was the external drive the proper Pied Piper one? I got an external drive *case* but no drive or other internals so I'm wondering if there's something I can make up since I've already got spare floppy drives themselves. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Nov 28 17:59:33 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: <10211260811.ZM5095@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Peter Turnbull > Sent: 26 November 2002 08:11 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland > > > On Nov 25, 21:28, Curt Vendel wrote: > > Anybody who is into this system should check it this auction I found on > > Ebay: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2 > 074514971 > > > > The guy also has some nice Commodore stuff, a Sony (MSX?) > System and some > > other cool stuff too. > > The coolest item there, for me, is his Jupiter Ace. For those who don't > know, it's a FORTH machine, and fairly rare. It's based on a Sinclair > ZX81, and named after the Pilot ACE computer built in 1950 at the National > Physical Laboratory. Not strictly true; it was designed by Richard Altwasser (hardware) and Steven Vickers (ROMs) after they'd left Sinclair and formed Jupiter Cantab; both had previously worked with the ZX80 (Richard) and 81 (Richard/Steven) and I think Steven also wrote some of the firmware for the Spectrum. It's design is more ZX80 than 81 in that it's a single board machine with the membrane keyboard incorporated on the mainboard. I don't think there were any differences between the Ace and the Ace 4000, though I'm sure US ones had a slightly modified case in that it had an extra 'bump' in it! It's typical that all that stuff comes up when I don't have a job - I'd have all of it :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From trestivo at concentric.net Thu Nov 28 18:02:12 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Decmate III Message-ID: Anyone interested in a working Decmate III check out this ebay link... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2075159467 thom From trestivo at concentric.net Thu Nov 28 18:04:14 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Dec Rainbow Message-ID: Mike, If you need a working vr201 for your rainbow let me know. I have quite a few of them and will sell you one for $25. Add $5 if you also need the cable. (you pay shipping from florida or pick it up). I have working Decmate III's as well and I think I may have the hard drives that go in the rainbow along with the dual floppy unit. I also have some original rainbow software. You can email me at trestivo@tarinc.com. Regards, thom From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Nov 28 18:07:01 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6952CC3D-0199-11D7-AE52-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 02:32 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > The RK06/RK07 would normally fit at the top of a rack. I wasn't aware > they were ever mounted on sliders -- I would think they are too heavy > for > this. > > They're also quite tall -- taller than an RL02, for example. And they > take a 2-platter cartridge (3 data surfaces, one servo surface). Yes, they're welded into their racks, if memory serves. I ran one for a long time; I really liked that drive. It was a big mistake to give it away years ago. There's useful space in the bottom of the rack...My RK611 controller (a 9-slot SU) was mounted in the bottom of the RK07's rack, with a short drive cable going up to the drive and a long Unibus cable coming out the back of the rack. Oh, by the way, hi again everybody. Been busy for a while, building a company and filling (literally FILLING) my house with equipment...most recently a PDP11/70, a VAX 7610, a Symbolics 3645, and my old IMSAI 8080. The first three are recent acquisitions, but the IMSAI was my main computer when I was in high school, it has spent the past 12 years in storage in a friend's basement...it sure was good to see it again. I hope everyone here has been doing well. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "You don't have Vaseline in Canada?" St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford From mats at sagabelectronic.se Thu Nov 28 18:09:09 2002 From: mats at sagabelectronic.se (=?Iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Bystr=F6m?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen Message-ID: <20021127151902.28628.qmail@tusse.tninet.se> Hi Erik, Do you still have the C8080-8 CPU? If you are interrested in selling it or trade it for a C8080A + money please let me know. I have several C8080A's but no C8080-8. Best regards Mats Bystr?m (CPU collector) riviera@telia.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021128/7ffe9794/part1.htm From dave at kaleidosoft.com Thu Nov 28 18:11:12 2002 From: dave at kaleidosoft.com (Dave Babcock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Computer Timeline References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F19601AFAA@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> <3DE529DA.B693431B@rain.org> Message-ID: <010201c29658$41155240$a77ba8c0@merlin> Marvin wrote: > Thanks, turning on Javascript did it! But it is still not what I am > looking for. I've seen lists in the past that have only the computer and > the (sometimes approximate) date they were introduced. So far, I've > still been unable to find such a list. Here's a link to what you might be remembering: http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/complist.html Thanks, DaveB Volunteer, Computer History Museum From trestivo at concentric.net Thu Nov 28 18:13:15 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: decmate III available Message-ID: Anyone interest in a working Decmate III check out this link... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2075159467 thom From LGREENBERG at MN.RR.com Thu Nov 28 18:15:17 2002 From: LGREENBERG at MN.RR.com (Larry Greenberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 Message-ID: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> I also have a Sharp PC5000. Is it worth anything? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021128/0d61f9e0/attachment.html From gfrajkor at ccs.carleton.ca Thu Nov 28 20:00:01 2002 From: gfrajkor at ccs.carleton.ca (Jan George Frajkor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Old Computers Message-ID: <3DE6CB79.E2273E50@ccs.carleton.ca> I recently posted to this list my desire to give a good home to big bunch of old computers, including some DEC PDPs and some CP/M lunks, and Atari and Commodore pioneers. The response was amazing. I never realized there were so many people still interested in preserving and using these classics. In less than a week, I had contact information and offers and requests for information from many parts of the continent. As it turned out, conveniently, they all found homes right here in the Ottawa area. Thank you all for your generosity with contact information and suggestions. I believe the old computers thank you also. -- ------ Jan George Frajkor _!_ 221 Arlington Ave. --!-- Ottawa, Ontario | Canada K1R 5S8 /^\ aa003@freenet.carleton.ca /^\ /^\ gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca h: 613 563-4534 fax: 613 520-6690 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Nov 28 20:05:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Decmate III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021128211012.0e3f9c04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> That's in my neck of the woods (Orlando). Are you the seller? Joe At 02:18 PM 11/26/02 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone interested in a working Decmate III check out this ebay link... >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2075159467 > >thom > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 29 01:11:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> John Honniball wrote: > I have a gadget called a Cybiko, which is a handheld computer > designed for teenagers to run games on and chat via a wireless > link. It has a serial port, there's a terminal emulator for it, > and there's also a Linux-based development kit for it. I thought the devkit was Win32 based? > You can get them in a variety of fashionable colours! :-) I've also noticed that the O2 store in Leeds (West Yorkshire, England) has them for GBP 20. Or at least they did when I went in to try and get my mobile phone "topped up". Now I know what I'm going to buy next - a pair of Cybikos :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 29 01:45:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021129074656.84354.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > > If you're looking for something more like a commodity laptop, how about > > just using a commodity laptop? They are, afterall, common as dirt. > > 8086-based laptops with full 80x24 screens can be found in thrift stores > sometimes, and for cheap. Haven't seen them in any of the local thrifts. :-( > The ACCRC gets in tons of these. They would make great portable > terminals. I remember you mentioning them in the past. What would be involved in purchasing one or two of these from them? > I still prefer my Psion though (2 AA batteries ;) If I'd ever seen one, I'd probably jump on it. I've seen Psion accessories in the bargain bin at the local MicroCenter, but never the Psion itself. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From hansp at aconit.org Fri Nov 29 03:49:00 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Telephone dials on consoles [was Re: 8 bit vs other Computers.] References: Message-ID: <3DE7386C.6010602@aconit.org> Tony Duell wrote: > [Telephone dial] > > >>the input. I was thinking that this would have been the perfect >>low-tech, low-cost input device for a homebrew computer back at that >>time. > > > I beleive the Pilot Ace computer had a telephone dial on the operate > console which was used as some kind of single-stepping clock. You could > generate 1 to 10 clock pulses in the obvious way. I'm not sure abut the Pilot ACE. The picture I have does not have the resolution to show if there is a telephone dial on the console. I do however know that the DEUCE, developed from the Pilot ACE and ACE did have a dial. ISTR that the Ferranti Pegasus has one also, and the EDSAC as has already been mentioned. -- hbp From Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM Fri Nov 29 06:23:00 2002 From: Adrien.Farkas at Sun.COM (Adrien 'freddy' Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: OpenVMS media available for d/l? Message-ID: <20021129122420.GA14064@tao.slovakia.sun.com> Hello folks, I've registered at cpq user group, got OpenVMS license, but I do not really want to order OpenVMS media for $30 (or whatever). Would anyone be so kind to supply me with a link where to get these iso images? Thanks in advance, -- freddy From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Nov 29 07:31:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> There is a fairly active community of Cybiko developers. It's a popular platform because it's got a keyboard, LCD, AVR controller, Hitachi H8S main CPU, 512K FLASH, 512K 'disk' (RAM), 1.5MB of memory, USB port, etc. Cybiko has, IIRC, been very cooperative in providing information. They also have their own developers kit that is either free, or very cheap. You can find this on eBay really cheap. --John On Friday 29 November 2002 02:13, Philip Pemberton wrote: > John Honniball wrote: > > I have a gadget called a Cybiko, which is a handheld computer > > designed for teenagers to run games on and chat via a wireless > > link. It has a serial port, there's a terminal emulator for it, > > and there's also a Linux-based development kit for it. > > I thought the devkit was Win32 based? > > > You can get them in a variety of fashionable colours! :-) > > I've also noticed that the O2 store in Leeds (West Yorkshire, England) has > them for GBP 20. Or at least they did when I went in to try and get my > mobile phone "topped up". > > Now I know what I'm going to buy next - a pair of Cybikos :-) > > Later. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Nov 29 10:23:01 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20021129162457.84221.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> I have the development kit for this, and it's very complete (and for free, darned good). At work we actually looked at this machine as a data collection tool. For the money, it is a very good deal. --- "J.C.Wren" wrote: > There is a fairly active community of Cybiko > developers. It's a popular > platform because it's got a keyboard, LCD, AVR > controller, Hitachi H8S main > CPU, 512K FLASH, 512K 'disk' (RAM), 1.5MB of memory, > USB port, etc. > > Cybiko has, IIRC, been very cooperative in > providing information. They also > have their own developers kit that is either free, > or very cheap. > > You can find this on eBay really cheap. > > --John > > On Friday 29 November 2002 02:13, Philip Pemberton > wrote: > > John Honniball wrote: > > > I have a gadget called a Cybiko, which is a > handheld computer > > > designed for teenagers to run games on and chat > via a wireless > > > link. It has a serial port, there's a terminal > emulator for it, > > > and there's also a Linux-based development kit > for it. > > > > I thought the devkit was Win32 based? > > > > > You can get them in a variety of fashionable > colours! :-) > > > > I've also noticed that the O2 store in Leeds (West > Yorkshire, England) has > > them for GBP 20. Or at least they did when I went > in to try and get my > > mobile phone "topped up". > > > > Now I know what I'm going to buy next - a pair of > Cybikos :-) > > > > Later. > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 29 10:54:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:12 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <001d01c297c8$3395bda0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> J.C.Wren wrote: > Cybiko has, IIRC, been very cooperative in providing information. > They also have their own developers kit that is either free, or very > cheap. And a Google search returns "about 62,500" matches. That settles it - I'm going to get one. Purely for research purposes, you understand :-) > You can find this on eBay really cheap. Fact: Nearly anything can be bought on Ebay. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 29 10:58:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we say twelve - have got a Cybiko? From the photos I've seen it would make a nice portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". Nothing a can of Humbrol spray-on matt enamel paint and matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 29 11:13:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: STM Pied Piper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Witchy wrote: > > I don't believe I received any docs for it. Just the machine and an > > external disk drive. > > Oh well. Was the external drive the proper Pied Piper one? I got an external Yes, it was. > drive *case* but no drive or other internals so I'm wondering if there's > something I can make up since I've already got spare floppy drives > themselves. I'm sure it's a standard 360K floppy drive. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 29 11:18:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <20021129074656.84354.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The ACCRC gets in tons of these. They would make great portable > > terminals. > > I remember you mentioning them in the past. What would be involved > in purchasing one or two of these from them? I don't know what the current state of their retail sales is, but you can inquire at: http://www.usedtech.org > > I still prefer my Psion though (2 AA batteries ;) > > If I'd ever seen one, I'd probably jump on it. I've seen Psion > accessories in the bargain bin at the local MicroCenter, but never > the Psion itself. It is, hands down, the best palmtop organizer ever. (Don't let the term "palmtop organizer" mislead you. It's actually a 32-bit computer with a realtime multi-tasking OS running an ARM processor. Linux has been ported to it. I have an Apple ][ emulator written specifically for it running on it.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 29 11:21:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we > say twelve - have got a Cybiko? From the photos I've seen it would make > a nice portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". Nothing a can of > Humbrol spray-on matt enamel paint and matching varnish wouldn't cure, > though. I got one that was on clearance at the local office supply store. I love it. I bought it more out of "oh, here's something I should buy while it's cheap" and haven't really explored it beyond the game "Phat Cash". You really need to get two to play with the ultra-cool features, such as setting up your profile and the profile of a romantic interest so that when two Cybiko's that have matching profiles come within proximity of each other they set off alarm bells. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Nov 29 11:35:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211291237.19173.jcwren@jcwren.com> > > http://www.usedtech.org > Click 'here'. An error occured while loading http://63.104.230.92/functions/imagelist.php?type=D: Could not connect to host 63.104.230.92 Niiiice. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Nov 29 11:38:00 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DE7B433.6348.539DC7E2@localhost> > Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we say > twelve - have got a Cybiko? From the photos I've seen it would make a nice > portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". Nothing a can of Humbrol > spray-on matt enamel paint and matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. Well, I got one, when the old version went on sale about half a year ago. I need to get a second unit some time to change it inot some kind of base station. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jss at subatomix.com Fri Nov 29 11:42:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Shameless eBay Self-Promotion Message-ID: <150135315202.20021129114330@subatomix.com> I'm still unemployed (but hopeful), and last week I spent about $200 on classiccmp gear that I couldn't really afford. I've got to recoup the cost of this or bills don't get paid this month. So I did some housecleaning and put a bunch of items up on eBay. There is some DEC stuff, an HP workstation, and a grab bag of other miscellaneous items: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=xor-ax-ax In a few days, I'll add more to that list: 2 HP-85s, a couple more DEC boards, and maybe some more cables. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Nov 29 12:52:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: What is the Q/UniBus board set? Message-ID: <20021129195009.K1222@MissSophie> Hi. I got this Q/UniBus board set: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/qbus_1.jpg (105 kB) http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/qbus_2.jpg (128 kB) The first is the top card (towards CPU). I think it is QBus, as I got it together with some other QBus / MicroVAX stuff. On these cards are: lots of TTL ICs and PALs 4 x TS2901 (=AMD 2901 bit slice?) 1 x 2910 1 x DEC 010B 19-14038 I 8415 (The DIP 20 with golden heat spreader) 10 x AM27S35 (Microcode PROM?) 2 x Harris D1-15530-9 2 x "Transceiver" 1 x DC/DC converter. 2 x 82S09N 8039 2 x V61C16P16 1 x 10 pin IDC connector (upper left on bottom card) There is a cabinet kit with two BNC connectos and two blue koax cables, labled A and B that connects to the 10 pin IDC connector. The two cards are interconnected with two 40 pin ribbon cables. This numbers are on the PCB: 5079322-001E 5079312-001F 5079310-001 5079320-001 What is this? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Nov 29 13:51:00 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3DE7C38C.1070704@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we say > twelve - have got a Cybiko? I've got two, and I'm nearly 41! > From the photos I've seen it would make a nice > portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". I quite like the transparent plastic, actually. > Nothing a can of Humbrol spray-on matt enamel paint and > matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. I usually use that on my beige PCs. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Nov 29 14:04:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?)" (Nov 29, 17:00) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10211292005.ZM7528@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 29, 17:00, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we say > twelve - have got a Cybiko? From the photos I've seen it would make a nice > portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". Nothing a can of Humbrol > spray-on matt enamel paint and matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. After some of the posts here, I'm seriously thinking of getting one. Can anyone tell me what the screen resolution is (chars x lines) if I use it as a terminal? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Fri Nov 29 14:11:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: <200211291237.19173.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > > http://www.usedtech.org > > > > Click 'here'. > > An error occured while loading > http://63.104.230.92/functions/imagelist.php?type=D: > > Could not connect to host 63.104.230.92 > > Niiiice. Oh well. Try: http://www.accrc.org Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Nov 29 14:32:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: <10211292005.ZM7528@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 29, 17:00, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall we say > > twelve - have got a Cybiko? From the photos I've seen it would make a nice > > portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". Nothing a can of Humbrol > > spray-on matt enamel paint and matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. > > After some of the posts here, I'm seriously thinking of getting one. Can > anyone tell me what the screen resolution is (chars x lines) if I use it as > a terminal? I found a site that offers a VT100 emulator for it. The original model (which is now selling for 25$US on Amazon.com), has the following specs: 32bit, 11MHz Hitachi H8S/2246; a 4MHz Amtel AT90S2313; 512KB of RAM, LCD display of 160x100 pixels, an RF2915 transceiver, RS232 serial port. The RF communication specs are that it operates in the frequency of 902-928MHz. It supports 30 digital channels, with rates of 19200 bps/channel. The range is 150ft indoors, and 300ft outdoors. And it mentions a "max on-line Cybiko computers" of 3000 (100 units on each of 30 channels). My impression that each unit can communicate simultaneouly with that number of other units. This information was found near the end (pg 46 or 47) of their online guide: http://www.cybiko.com/guide/guide.pdf The newer Xtreme (gah!) model has more RAM, a faster main processor, and a USB port (I don't see an RS232 port mentioned.) http://www.cybikoxtreme.com/support/specs.asp -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Nov 29 14:39:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > I found a site that offers a VT100 emulator for it. I forgot to include the urls: VTTerm v1.2: http://www.devrs.com/cybiko/files/vtterm.zip Cybiko Dev site: http://www.devrs.com/cybiko/ Rather off-topic for the list, but the Cybikos are very cool considering how inexpensive they are, especially given their features. Though I wish they weren't so damned ugly. -brian. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 29 15:13:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <3DE7C38C.1070704@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <01c901c297ec$704bff60$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> John Honniball wrote: > Philip Pemberton wrote: >> Just out of interest, how many people here over the age of - shall >> we say twelve - have got a Cybiko? > I've got two, and I'm nearly 41! Let me guess - one permanently docked to a PC acting as an internet gateway, the other sitting on your desk next to said PC, taken around the house or wherever? >> From the photos I've seen it would make a nice >> portable terminal, but it looks a bit "kiddy". > I quite like the transparent plastic, actually. I've just noticed that one. I personally prefer matt black or silver, natch. >> Nothing a can of Humbrol spray-on matt enamel paint and > > matching varnish wouldn't cure, though. > I usually use that on my beige PCs. I've just spraypainted an old beige 2-button mouse black - now it matches my HP 700LX. Now where did I put those connectors... FYI, the mouse was a noname, FCC ID IOWCM-290F. IDs as being made by "Chic Technology, Taipei, Taiwan". But it works and the parts are reasonably standard. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Nov 29 15:16:00 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021126191018.68821.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3DE69E34.2030405@gifford.co.uk> <000d01c29776$d013f860$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <200211290832.45615.jcwren@jcwren.com> <002101c297c8$dfeb7a40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10211292005.ZM7528@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <01d101c297ec$bede2220$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Peter Turnbull wrote: > After some of the posts here, I'm seriously thinking of getting one. > Can anyone tell me what the screen resolution is (chars x lines) if I > use it as a terminal? 160x120 pixels, 4 greyscales per pixel. You'd probably be able to get 32x16 or 24x10 depending on how readable you wanted the text to be. FYI, O2 aren't the only company that sell these - Argos have the Cybikos for ?29.99, catalogue number 360/8605. Listed as "Colour may vary". Oh dear. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Nov 29 16:46:01 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: What is the Q/UniBus board set? References: <20021129195009.K1222@MissSophie> Message-ID: <001001c297f9$4da4ebe0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> It looks like this might be an avionics 1553 processor or interface/controller for unibus PDP/VAX. ( from the STC 1553 transcievers ) It looks too complex to be only a 1553 serial bus interface, but with the 2901 bit slice and 2910 microsequencer, it might be a complete CPU to do development on a unibus host. MIL-STD -1553 is a bidirectional, 1 Mbit serial, TDM, manchester II biphase encoded, dual-redundant avionics bus that runs on stub terminated twisted shielded pair media. (hence the BNCs). It supports 31 TDM "terminals" in a 20 bit paritied words (3sync+16data+P). Messages contain at least one command word and max 32 16 bit data words, on 5 bit addresses/subadresses. MIL-STD-1773 defines the newer optical cabling fiber based bus. 1553 was typically used in military and fighter aircraft for interconnecting INS/GPS, fly by wire, engine management, and even flight controls. The standard dual redundant paths improve reliability - thus cuts down on airplane crashes somewhat ;) The DC/DC might be for generating an isolated or odd supply for the STC transceivers, even though they are generally transformer coupled and resistor terminated in the wiring hardness. Some google links show that the navy used an IMUTS Unibus based system to test carrier aircraft IMU/INS : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/imuts-a.htm An online resume indicated development of a VMS driver for a VAX based 1553. see http://www.testsystems.com/pdf/overview.pdf http://www.ampol-tech.com/what1553.htm regards Heinz > I got this Q/UniBus board set: > http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/qbus_1.jpg (105 kB) > http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/qbus_2.jpg (128 kB) > The first is the top card (towards CPU). I think it is QBus, as I got it > together with some other QBus / MicroVAX stuff. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Nov 29 17:51:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) In-Reply-To: Brian Chase "Re: Cybiko (was Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?)" (Nov 29, 12:33) References: Message-ID: <10211292352.ZM7626@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 29, 12:33, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Peter Turnbull wrote: > > After some of the posts here, I'm seriously thinking of getting one. Can > > anyone tell me what the screen resolution is (chars x lines) if I use it as > > a terminal? > > I found a site that offers a VT100 emulator for it. > > The original model (which is now selling for 25$US on Amazon.com), has > the following specs: > > 32bit, 11MHz Hitachi H8S/2246; a 4MHz Amtel AT90S2313; 512KB of RAM, LCD > display of 160x100 pixels, I found that, and also saw in the terminal emulator blurb that there's a choice of fonts including 3x5, 4x6 and 5x7, so it should be able to make a reasonable display, say 40 chars by 16 lines. The software is hardly a VT100 emulation though; it only does clear screen and cursor movements, and none of the other VT100 ops. So far :-) > an RF2915 transceiver, RS232 serial port. The > RF communication specs are that it operates in the frequency of > 902-928MHz. It supports 30 digital channels, with rates of 19200 > bps/channel. The range is 150ft indoors, and 300ft outdoors. It says "up to 150ft". In some places I've been, I bet it would be pushed to manage 150" :-) > And it > mentions a "max on-line Cybiko computers" of 3000 (100 units on each of > 30 channels). My impression that each unit can communicate > simultaneouly with that number of other units. > > This information was found near the end (pg 46 or 47) of their online > guide: http://www.cybiko.com/guide/guide.pdf > > The newer Xtreme (gah!) model has more RAM, a faster main processor, and > a USB port (I don't see an RS232 port mentioned.) > http://www.cybikoxtreme.com/support/specs.asp USB isn't useful to me. None of my SGIs, Suns or older machines support it. BTW, the RRP in the UK is ?29.99 according to Cybiko's online shop. I've seen it for ?26.99 at Jungle, it may be cheaper elsewhere. That includes batteries, charger, RS232 cable, etc, so it's worth buying "on spec" at that price. And the Linux SDK is free, like the Windows one, except it's (the Linux SDK) currently one revision ahead, interestingly. Anyway, I found the terminal emulator. More importantly, I found Asteroids and Colossal Cave ;-) Now I just need Wumpus ;-) http://www.devrs.com/cybiko/download.php -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 29 18:36:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Old computers In-Reply-To: <6952CC3D-0199-11D7-AE52-000393970B96@neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Nov 26, 2 06:47:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1984 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021129/51cc8fa1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 29 18:40:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Nov 27, 2 05:38:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1535 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021129/00818050/attachment.ksh From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Nov 29 18:57:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sony Microfloppies question References: Message-ID: <008601c2980b$9ff23cb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> I was trying to teledisk an old Sony Microfloppy with no success and then noticed that the disk is different than the other early Sony microfloppies I have. I have posted some images for illustration at http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SonyMicroFloppies.jpg The disk I couldn't teledisk is shown in the two top scans. Unlike the other two disks it appears to be springless, has an oval opening, and lacks the angled guide notch of the two later disks. When inserted into a Sony model OA-D34V-22 3 1/2 inch drive (the one that shipped with the Lisa 2 and original Mac) the floppy will usually (but not always) insert all the way, but the shutter does not open. This can be remedied by opening the shutter manually prior to inserting the disk, in the position shown on the rightmost photo. It "notches" into place and stays open due to the lack of a spring. The two-sided arrow on the disk seems to suggest, at least to me, manual operation. The next two scans down are of the "auto shutter" disk. This disk has a more rectangular opening, the angled guide, and also a notch that locks the shutter in place if the door is opened all the way. The shutter is then released by pinching the edge of the disk, and the word "pinch" is engraved in the plastic. The last scan is of a microfloppy for some Lisa 2 software, which appears to be a further evolution in the design that corresponds to current disks. The opening is rectangular, the guide is angled and the shutter is spring loaded and will not stay open unless held. So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would prevent me from using Teledisk? Thanks. -W From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Nov 29 22:47:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Early 3.5" diskettes (was: Sony Microfloppies question In-Reply-To: <008601c2980b$9ff23cb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design > evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would > prevent me from using Teledisk? NO. The shutter type, unless it physically prevents you from putting the disk into the drive has no effect on reading nor writing. You should look at the multitudinous other reasons why Teledisk can't handle it, specifically things such as Teledisk (SOFTWARE) can not possibly read anything that is single density (FM), GCR, or with other physical incompatibilities. After the original NO shutter diskettes (I have some made by or for Shugart), and real manual shutter diskettes, there were some "automatic" ones which required you to manually open the shutter (with practice, it can be done by rapping the corner of the disk!), but have a spring and a latch. When you want to close the shutter, pinch the corner (where the arrow points, and or says "pinch"), to release the latch. Later diskettes kept the arrows that pointed to the PINCH spot, even though they no longer had a latch. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Nov 29 22:56:00 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 In-Reply-To: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <3127.68.64.124.83.1038632276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > Is it worth anything? Yes. From kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com Fri Nov 29 23:32:22 2002 From: kevenm at reeltapetransfer.com (Keven Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Apple II mouse (was Re: Found another Mac mouse) References: <20021127184328.70955.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DE84D3F.E88FB52F@reeltapetransfer.com> FWIW I have a Franklin 1000. When I got one of these Apple II mouse cards, the mouse didn't work it -- (Mousepaint in ProDos). I had to do some rom tracing to find that the code tried to decide which model of Apple it was running on; as well as making sure it was an Apple ROM that it was running on. I wrote a one page article for Computist, issue 36 Oct 1986, titled "Mousepaint for non-Apples". It describes the problem and provides a patch for MP (MousePaint). Hmmm, reviewing the article now, apparently getting ProDos running on my Franklin was also a problem -- and fixed. Keven Miller kevenm@reeltapetransfer.com From david_comley at yahoo.com Fri Nov 29 23:38:00 2002 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: ASR33 - now working Message-ID: <20021130053955.70525.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to Tony and Dwight for their advice on repairing my ailing teletype model 33 ASR. It is now functioning correctly. The problem turned out to be the trip lever which had come unseated from its guide, plus a mal-adjusted distributor. The distributor clutch was permanently engaged, not synchronized with the keyboard. Characters printed OK when holding REPT because the keyboard reset concided with the start of the distributor cycle, bringing them both into sync while REPT was held down. I should have realized this before as I watched that distributor whiz round and round... D'oh. Anyway now it runs a lot quieter too and the carriage responds crisply to keystrokes after all that cleaning. Dave __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Nov 30 00:34:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Early 3.5" diskettes (was: Sony Microfloppies question References: Message-ID: <00b601c2983a$ac571af0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design > > evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would > > prevent me from using Teledisk? > > NO. > The shutter type, unless it physically prevents you from putting the disk > into the drive has no effect on reading nor writing. You should look at > the multitudinous other reasons why Teledisk can't handle it, specifically > things such as Teledisk (SOFTWARE) can not possibly read anything that is > single density (FM), GCR, or with other physical incompatibilities. > Well, the manual shutter type could prevent a very clueless user from using Teledisk if said user didn't recognize that the shutter was manual and stuck the disk in the drive without opening it first. But, as it turned out, my real problem was that Teledisk, as it turns out, doesn't work with XP (or Win2000 for that matter). When I switched to a Win98 machine it read the disk without any problems (once I remembered to manually open the shutter, that is). Thanks for the help. -W From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 00:39:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the majority of my computer collection. Partly needed bucks driven, partly tiring of it all. A small museum is unlikely and I have other unfulfilled interests which I might focus on as an old fart. Likely on E-Pay because we're a notoriously cheap (or poor) lot. What would the list retain if they were cutting down or getting rid of the majority of thier collection and keeping enough to keep thier hand in. The game machines are easy and the first to go. I would think of retaining an IBM PC and another good DOS box. A CP/M machine. Maybe a Rainbow and let the Kaypros, Osborne, and others go. A hip old laptop, In my case a Grid 1520 and my Sharp handheld. Maybe one old early box like my Micom, H-89. or TRS m.II An Atari 8-bit and / or CoCo 3 An ST and Amiga 3K An IBM PS/2 likely the 8590, altho who would want 8580s, a more significant machine. Maybe one kept by default. And a newer DOS box and laptop. And then looking at this exclusive list it won't be easy. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Nov 30 00:41:00 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> <3127.68.64.124.83.1038632276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00bf01c2983b$8e7722e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > Is it worth anything? > > "Eric Smith" > > Yes. > It would be worth Best in Show at VCF 5.0, for example, without the effort of having to put together an exhibit. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Nov 30 00:45:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Classic tools with "modern" OS's (was: Early 3.5" diskettes (was: In-Reply-To: <00b601c2983a$ac571af0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > But, as it turned out, my real problem was that Teledisk, as it turns out, > doesn't work with XP (or Win2000 for that matter). When I switched to a Win98 > machine it read the disk without any problems (once I remembered to manually > open the shutter, that is). NT ("Not Today"), as a "security feature", tries very hard to prevent any program from doing disk I/O without aking permission from NT. XenoCopy will also not work with NT. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 01:09:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <3DE810D9.30245.7100A89@localhost> Oops. Forgot the Apples. A serious decision between a highly loaded A2 Plus, GS with 5.25 and 3.5 floppies, Mac 512 with heavy upgrade, and Mac IIc that I have affection for. And then their are the Zines and docs. sighhh. Not easy. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Sat Nov 30 01:30:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> <3127.68.64.124.83.1038632276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <00bf01c2983b$8e7722e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3DE86953.D1B28BC0@rain.org> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > > Is it worth anything? > > > > "Eric Smith" > > > > Yes. > > > It would be worth Best in Show at VCF 5.0, for example, without the effort of > having to put together an exhibit. ??? I don't think the Sharp PC-5000 is either that rare or worth a "Best of Show". Except for its use of Bubble Memory, I really don't see where it is all that unusual. And IIRC, it runs Dos 2.1 or so. Except back in the "golden days" of ebay, the highest I've seen one go for was about $85 or so. From marvin at rain.org Sat Nov 30 01:44:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <3DE86CB7.43D8502B@rain.org> Lawrence Walker wrote: > > What would the list retain if they were cutting down or getting rid of > the majority of thier collection and keeping enough to keep thier hand > in. To me, it really depends on how much interest there is in a given machine or line of machines. I much prefer the less common machines; S-100, Polymorphic, and Lobo for instance. And I consider documentation *very* important, and will rarely get rid of them unless they are dups of what I already have. When I first started collecting classic computers, a LOT of them hit the dumpster. Now, more people are trying to sell or find a home instead of taking the dumpster route. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Nov 30 01:52:01 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 References: <000801c29683$50d95de0$98d0a318@mn.rr.com> <3127.68.64.124.83.1038632276.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <00bf01c2983b$8e7722e0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> <3DE86953.D1B28BC0@rain.org> Message-ID: <00d901c29845$9ae3f030$1843cd18@D73KSM11> > > "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > > > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > > > Is it worth anything? > > > > > > "Eric Smith" > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > It would be worth Best in Show at VCF 5.0, for example, without the effort of > > having to put together an exhibit. > > ??? I don't think the Sharp PC-5000 is either that rare or worth a "Best > of Show". Except for its use of Bubble Memory, I really don't see where > it is all that unusual. And IIRC, it runs Dos 2.1 or so. Except back in > the "golden days" of ebay, the highest I've seen one go for was about > $85 or so. > A Sharp PC-5000 was what Sellam gave as a prize to the "Best in Show" winner at VCF 5.0 (or perhaps it was the "People's Choice Award"). You were probably too busy selling stuff to notice! From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 30 02:08:00 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the > majority of my computer collection. Partly needed bucks driven, partly > tiring of it all. A small museum is unlikely and I have other unfulfilled > interests which I might focus on as an old fart. Likely on E-Pay > because we're a notoriously cheap (or poor) lot. > What would the list retain if they were cutting down or getting rid of > the majority of thier collection and keeping enough to keep thier hand > in. This will be different for nearly everyone on the list. From an investment standpoint, I'd suggest keeping anything you've got that's truly rare or unusual unless you /really/ need the money badly. When I pared down my collection a bit about two years ago, I targeted the items which I didn't use (and wouldn't ever likely use), the items I used the least, the items which didn't have any nostalgic value, and then those which were rather bulky and could be substituted with something a bit smaller. About half of it ended up on eBay, the other half I traded for stuff I'd found more useful. My area of focus tends to be on Unix workstations and servers, and VAXen of all sorts. My 8-bit gear is limited to systems I enjoyed growing up. (I'd really like to get my hands on a PDP-11/05 and just about any PDP-8). I've yet to acquire a system with a proper front panel and blinkenlights. I found that trying to stick to my "areas of focus" has helped keep my collection under control. That's not to say there aren't exceptions for interesting or rare items. If someone offered me a Symbolics machine, or an Altair, or even the Super Foonly F1, I'd take them up on the offer. During the last round of cleanup, I got rid of all my video game consoles except for the Vectrex, all my Atari 8-bit gear, all of my Amiga gear, the TRS-80 Model 102s, and most of my Apple 8-bit gear with the exception of some IIc's and a complete Apple III system. The next things on the list to go will be the Commodore 8-bit systems and much of my TI-99/4a collection. The items I kept were all my VAXen, my NeXTs, some older Sun Sparcs, some newer Sun Sparcs, SGIs, terminals, a few junk PCs for running Linux and NetBSD, my CoCos (for nostalgic reasons), and an RS/6000 for running AIX. The collection has grown a bit again, mostly to be within those areas that I've limited my collecting; but then there's the Amiga 4000 which someone found stuffed in a corner at work and had planned to pitch. And there's the Mac Performa 476, also destined to be trashed. I simply couldn't let such crimes be committed. Sadly, I missed out on the palettes of about four dozen SGI Indigo^2s and half as many Indys which were carted off by the recycling guy. Anyone want to trade a PDP-11/05 for an Amiga 4000? -brian. From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 30 02:12:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > What would the list retain if they were cutting down or getting rid of > the majority of thier collection and keeping enough to keep thier hand > in. I would keep anything that you personally favor (of course), and then anything that is not common or rare or very interesting. Anything common (Osbornes, Apple ][s, Commodore 64's, etc.) would go. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 30 02:16:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 In-Reply-To: <3DE86953.D1B28BC0@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > ??? I don't think the Sharp PC-5000 is either that rare or worth a "Best > of Show". Except for its use of Bubble Memory, I really don't see where > it is all that unusual. And IIRC, it runs Dos 2.1 or so. Except back in > the "golden days" of ebay, the highest I've seen one go for was about > $85 or so. I wouldn't call it "rare" but it is quite uncommon out in the wild. It is also a very significant and interesting machine in that it represents one of the first clamshell portables, certainly one of the few to use bubble memory as its main storage (there's only one other portable computer I know of that did, and one terminal), and it has some trick features such as built-in printer and built-in modem that made it quite a machine for its time (1982). You are neglecting the historical context. In 1982, this was an amazing computer. The highest I saw one go for was $235 on eBay. I think that is a tad under-valued, personally. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Nov 30 03:22:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II In-Reply-To: References: <29A42E30F0E30A4898C598119FA8F196034297@rs-sc-exc7.rs.riverstonenet.com> Message-ID: Yet another update on the MicroVAX II that seems to prefer dormancy... The KA630 was still hanging at '9', so after thinking it over, I pulled the backplane and checked it over again. I really don't like pulling it, since aligning it is somewhat of a pain. I didn't find any visible problems with it, but those threaded standoffs used to mount it kept unscrewing when removing the outer retaining screws. I decided to add a small bit of Loctite to each of the 8 inside screws to see if that will solve that problem. Once I got the backplane back in and aligned with the card cage, the system would constantly get to '6' and hang, which was further than '9'. I then tried cleaning the gold fingers of the card edge connector on the KA630, since it seemed to be the card at fault. Even though they looked clean, the amount of crud that came off with some isopropyl alcohol was startling. After cleaning that board and then the memory board, the system would reach '6', and error with a '?2' 'Failed.' message. I pulled the 4MB memory card and shuffled boards to keep the Q bus happy, and got a chevron prompt for possibly the first time with the KA630. So, it looks like I have either a fussy memory board or KA630. I've not yet tried the KA655 and associated memory cards in the BA123 again, but I may later. -Toth From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Nov 30 07:11:30 2002 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? References: Message-ID: <3DE8BA51.4070009@charter.net> I go through periods of growth and divestiture. I sold all of my Commodore equipment with the exception of a 128D to run CP/M, all of the Tandy's except for a couple of my original 1000SX with the 286 Express board, all of the Amigas and Apple II's. I started collecting Mac clones, Umax, Daystars and such. Then I rescued an entire carload of Amiga's and software that still sit unsorted. The Amiga's will probably go on ebay to make room for more Mac clones. I think my wife says prayers of thanks each day, that I don't like or collect big iron or mini's. -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 07:23:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> James wrote: > I think my wife says prayers of thanks each day, that I don't > like or collect big iron or mini's. Owww... if you change your mind, I still have a Masscomp 5700 for you... wife can use it for laundry dryer, too ! Seriously.. anyone interested in a Masscomp 5700? Cheers, Fred (trying to make room.. VAXen are trying to assimilate me..) From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Nov 30 09:09:00 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <20021130151106.GOBG15542.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Saturday 30 November 2002 01:44, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the > majority of my computer collection. Partly needed bucks driven, partly I tired holding a swap meet on my drieway last summer to get rid of a bunch of older stuff. I traded an HP 712 for a Cromemco system 3, gave away a toshiba laptop, and at the end of the day there was a MAC Plus an APPLE II C, two Apple clones, TI99/4a, a 486 and a mother board that weren't there at the start. This past month I found a shop that was in need of an Apple IIc. I brought it in thinking to trade for repairis to a Powerbook 145. When I went it to see again they said no to the trade and that I owe them $69 for looking at the laptop. I don't have the space or money to trade any more machines. Shipping is also a big problem because the area collectors already have most of what I'm wanting to clear out. On the plus side I did pick up an HP 712 and Apple A/ux 3.0 this week. My wife wsa thinking of PEI for vacation this year but maybe northern Manitoba may have some interesting garage sales :) From allain at panix.com Sat Nov 30 10:15:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <002a01c2988b$ec8dfe80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Simply put my interest seems to have become centered on DEC-VAX-QBUS. I save systems with some place in my own personal history timeline. I was sysmgr/applications programmer on an 11/780 (at >1500 lbs) around 1981-1988 and microvaxes are cool manageble versions (at <100 lbs) of the same thing. Right now I'm trying to build an RSX-11M PDP 11/34. My save strategy encompasses all electronic equipment that I see, but it goes like this: Did a well regarded company make it, Is there no damage, Will/Does it work, Does it have an OS/software, Docs, Yes>How much does it cost?, Weigh, Is it very hard to find elsewhere. And, ultimately 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?'* No name PC's and anybodies' 286-486 I seem to have no problem in dropping. People on the list know that sometimes I will pick up systems just for them too. I would disagree that classic computers are being tossed less frequently. There is a sliding window of what is old relative to where we are now. Ten years ago the hot old computer (5~10yo) would have been the workstation. Now its the 486/P75/P100 and those are definitely being tossed (and boring, but that's another issue). John A. *If the answer is 'the couch' then you've lost it. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 10:23:00 2002 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Sark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? Message-ID: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything about this? Were there other PC's made like this? BTW - I hope the page will work OK, it's on an old Pentium 166 running Linux I use as a webserver. Ian Primus ian_pimus@yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Nov 30 10:30:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> <002a01c2988b$ec8dfe80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DE8E78F.8010001@jetnet.ab.ca> John Allain wrote: > My save strategy encompasses all electronic equipment that I see, but it > goes like this: Did a well regarded company make it, Is there no damage, > Will/Does it work, Does it have an OS/software, Docs, Yes>How much does > it cost?, Weigh, Is it very hard to find elsewhere. And, ultimately > 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?' I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. I tend to have picked up the odd $10-$15 dollar computers only to discover no software or OS's are in the box other than a few games. The biggest problem is you can never seem to find drivers for windows or dos. > *If the answer is 'the couch' then you've lost it. I thought 'the wife' would be when you lost it. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 10:40:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> John Allain wrote: > And, ultimately 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?'* > ... > *If the answer is 'the couch' then you've lost it. I know several people who seem to have no problem dropping furniture in favor of Good Iron, _provided_ the iron looks or smells good enough for a livingroom or bedroom :) (no, not me... I prefer the soft couch.. ;-) --f From fernande at internet1.net Sat Nov 30 10:43:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? References: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DE8EA2D.2030002@internet1.net> Sark wrote: > I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true > motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this > before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? > > BTW - I hope the page will work OK, it's on an old Pentium 166 running > Linux I use as a webserver. > > Ian Primus > ian_pimus@yahoo.com We must all be hitting your server at the same time, as I can't get pictures to load. My guess is that it's a a Zenith, even though, I can't see it yet. I think these computers were built for the government. At least the later 386 versions..... supposedly they were built to fall off a moving truck. Might be urban legend, Though. I had a Zenith XT and it was built with backplane instead of the traditional PC motherboard design. Chad Fernandez Michigan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 10:45:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BF@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Ben wrote: > > *If the answer is 'the couch' then you've lost it. > I thought 'the wife' would be when you lost it. Usually, getting rid of the wife doesn't make a lot of room for new machines. There _is_, however, a good chance of ending up with more cash to spend on 'em... :) --fred (doing only DEC PDP-11/VAX/Networking himself..) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Nov 30 10:47:01 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE8E78F.8010001@jetnet.ab.ca> from ben franchuk at "Nov 30, 2 09:30:07 am" Message-ID: <200211301657.IAA02788@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > My save strategy encompasses all electronic equipment that I see, but it > > goes like this: Did a well regarded company make it, Is there no damage, > > Will/Does it work, Does it have an OS/software, Docs, Yes>How much does > > it cost?, Weigh, Is it very hard to find elsewhere. And, ultimately > > 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?' > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. Fortunately, it was. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I am Pentium of Borg. Division is futile. You will be approximated." ------ From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Nov 30 10:51:00 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <3DE8EA2D.2030002@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Sark wrote: > > I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true > > motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this > > before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have > > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? > > My guess is that it's a a Zenith, even though, I can't see it yet. I > think these computers were built for the government. At least the later > 386 versions..... supposedly they were built to fall off a moving truck. > Might be urban legend, Though. I know Zenith made XT's and 286 systems with that design, I've seen too many of them go through Purdue's surplus lately. However, that DEFINATELY doesn't appear to be a Zenith machine - the zenith machines I've seen are much wider and generally bulky (at least as wide as a PC/XT/AT case, and deeper - I noticed that when I tried putting a CGA card from one into a PC/XT and it didn't fit :). Of course, there are also newer machines with passive backplanes, I think JDR microdevices has sold 'the parts' for ISA and PCI (PIC/MG?) passive backplane machines. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 10:56:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > Fortunately, it was. Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 10:58:00 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Hi all, I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that spelling. Can the ListMaster check on this, possibly by having us all do a manual "yes, I am here" reply or somesuch? Thanks, Fred From truthanl at oclc.org Sat Nov 30 11:10:01 2002 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cosmac Elf Lot on Ebay Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EFFB@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> I saw this,and am in no way associated with the seller. I thought others might want to peruse: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=basements ale&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25 Cleveland OH Sincerely Larry T From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Nov 30 11:27:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:13 2005 Subject: Cosmac Elf Lot on Ebay In-Reply-To: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EFFB@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EFFB@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <200211301229.15608.jcwren@jcwren.com> Very disappointing he's broken it into separate lots. --John On Saturday 30 November 2002 12:12, Truthan,Larry wrote: > I saw this,and am in no way associated with the seller. I thought others > might want to peruse: > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=basement >s ale&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25 > > Cleveland OH > > Sincerely Larry T From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Nov 30 12:13:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ Message-ID: <15d.1839aabb.2b1a5a2a@aol.com> In a message dated 11/30/02 9:01:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl writes: > I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on > this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I > post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And > yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that > spelling. > > I don't think this is true for me. I use a separate email address for this list, that only is used for this list, and it gets almost no spam at all. I see no differences when I reply to the list. I get no increase of spam that I can detect. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/5eb52717/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 30 12:19:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "RE: Selling it off. What would you keep ?" (Nov 30, 17:57) References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C1@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <10211301821.ZM8187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 30, 17:57, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > > > Fortunately, it was. > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information Exchange) was founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 12:26:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ In-Reply-To: <15d.1839aabb.2b1a5a2a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20021130182752.34125.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/02 9:01:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl writes: > > > > I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on > > this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead... > > I don't think this is true for me. I use a separate email address for > this list, that only is used for this list, and it gets almost no spam > at all. I'm in the same boat... this is a special cctalk-only address. I get no spam at it that hasn't come through the listserv (one or twice?) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Nov 30 12:28:01 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Cosmac Elf Lot on Ebay References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EFFB@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> <200211301229.15608.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <003901c2989e$5fe39400$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> J.C.Wren wrote: > Very disappointing he's broken it into separate lots. I agree. I might bid on the RCA 1802 manual. Unless anyone's scanned it in and uploaded it beforehand? Anyone here got a spare copy they feel like parting with for, say $5 plus shipping? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Nov 30 12:31:01 2002 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States > including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information > Exchange) was > founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public > services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. In The Netherlands, Internet (not UUCP, but IP-based service) was simply not affordable until the mid-to-late nineties. Demon, too, started off as an UUCP provider- I worked with Cliff :) A lot of politics were involved too, at least in The Netherlands. Even right now, if you not an organization or a company, you *cannot* get a domain in the .nl space, and several other totally BS rules. (I got my Trailblazer UUCP link straight into the U.S. in 1988, because we were denied a connection by NLnet (aka UUNET aka WorldCom.) For regular people, I doubt one could get a decent and affordable conn in 1992 in the UK, Pete. Thats why Cliff started doing UUCP first :) --fred From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 12:33:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago (was Re: Selling it off. What would you keep ?) In-Reply-To: <10211301821.ZM8187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20021130183402.34774.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Peter Turnbull wrote: > On Nov 30, 17:57, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > > > > > Fortunately, it was. > > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. > > By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States > including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information Exchange) was > founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public > services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. 10 years ago, I was doing Usenet and email through my Amiga (with two ST225s and a PC-XT disk controller!) with UUCP. I couldn't do ftp and telnet and cool stuff like that, but I could at least get a few newsgroups like comp.sources.amiga and rec.humor.funny delivered to my door. 2400 bps, 20 MB news spool! Those were the days. Not. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ernestls at attbi.com Sat Nov 30 13:08:00 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Lawrence Walker > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 10:44 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? > > > I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the > majority of my computer collection. > What would the list retain if they were cutting down or getting rid of > the majority of thier collection and keeping enough to keep thier hand > in. I've been thinking along the same lines. I've collected a fairly large number of old computers, and they're beginning to feel like a ball and chain for a lot of reasons. I enjoy the hunt (a sign of a true collector,)and I enjoy the process of disassembling and cleaning them up. I also enjoy the feeling that I get when I repair a computer that's been broken for years but for me, once I've done all that, I usually package them up neatly and store them away. That means that I have a lot of clutter and "junk" around, and I'm getting kind of tired of it. Sellam knows that I've been thinking about this for a while now, and yet I continue to collect, although not as aggressively as I was a year or so ago. I'm warming to the idea (for me) of just picking one system, and focusing on it. Mine would probably be my Apple IIe. The IIe's are as common as dirt but of all my Apple II's and clones, it's the one I use most. I also wonder about my Basis 108, or even my Morrow MD3. I haven't decided yet but it's likely that within the next year, I'll find new homes for the majority of my old computers, and try to live a less cluttered life again. That, or I'll get rid of my collection of Apple II clones with the idea that I will continue to collect, repair, and document clones that I don't already have. Then latter on, sell them too and continue the process, thus adding new systems to my web page for the main purpose public reference. E. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Nov 30 13:38:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20021130193446.GC480@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 05:42:19PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I know several people who seem to have no problem dropping furniture > in favor of Good Iron, _provided_ the iron looks or smells good enough > for a livingroom or bedroom :) You know you are a VAX geek when you realized that you need no furniture. Your computers just work as well. ;-) (inspired by http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/index.html) > (no, not me... I prefer the soft couch.. ;-) Put a pillow on the VAX? Really. A BA123 with a pillow can be a very nice place to sit. -- tschüß, Jochen, whos desk is build with a VAX4000-400 and a Sun 3/260. Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jss at subatomix.com Sat Nov 30 13:42:00 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <8478897658.20021130134411@subatomix.com> On Saturday, November 30, 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on this > list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. Maybe, but there's no real way to check. One could look for 'suspicious' addresses in the subscriber list, but that's very prone to failure. > Can the ListMaster check on this, possibly by having us all do a manual > "yes, I am here" reply or somesuch? Wouldn't work. Some people might be on vacation, ignoring list mail for a few weeks, apt to delete the request without reading it, or just too lazy to respond. With over 600 subscribers, we probably have people in each category. -- Jeffrey Sharp From gijs.meirmans at financial-plaza.nl Sat Nov 30 14:06:24 2002 From: gijs.meirmans at financial-plaza.nl (gijs kantoor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: IUP-200/201 Message-ID: I am looking for an old Intel unit, the IUP 200/201 universal prom programmer, with software, and information how to use. I have the IUP-F87/51 module and userguide, and a folder of the IUP-200/201 but not the programmer it self. Gijs Meirmans The Netherlands From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 14:11:00 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <20021130151106.GOBG15542.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: <3DE8C820.31607.9DC1087@localhost> ROTFL. hehheh. I've had this compulsion before and my collection still keeps growing. Reminds me of a 50s song "But The Thing Came Back" about an undisposable object. Lawrence > On Saturday 30 November 2002 01:44, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > I am at a point where I am thinking about divesting myself of the > > majority of my computer collection. Partly needed bucks driven, partly > > I tired holding a swap meet on my drieway last summer to get rid of a > bunch of older stuff. I traded an HP 712 for a Cromemco system 3, gave > away a toshiba laptop, and at the end of the day there was a MAC Plus an > APPLE II C, two Apple clones, TI99/4a, a 486 and a mother board that > weren't there at the start. > > This past month I found a shop that was in need of an Apple IIc. I > brought it in thinking to trade for repairis to a Powerbook 145. When > I went it to see again they said no to the trade and that I owe them $69 > for looking at the laptop. > > I don't have the space or money to trade any more machines. > > Shipping is also a big problem because the area collectors already have > most of what I'm wanting to clear out. > > On the plus side I did pick up an HP 712 and Apple A/ux 3.0 this week. > > My wife wsa thinking of PEI for vacation this year but maybe northern > Manitoba may have some interesting garage sales :) lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 14:12:55 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DE8C820.14735.9DC1050@localhost> I have a Luggable all-in-one Zenith ZFA 161 with a passive backplane. Z(enith) F( 48 TPI double sided) A( amber screen ) 161 model 5 (slots) 2 (fdds'). It has an 8088 CPU. I see yours has a mix of 8 and 16 bit slots. Mine is buried (like too much of my collection) and I can't remember if I had both types. The 8088 could handle both TMK. What is the processor ? Zenith had an excellent monitor program to access the BIOS. The paper tape with the key combination is faded but I can make out Ctrl _? Ins. The middle key might be delete. That would confirm that it was indeed a Zenith. Zenith put out it's PC line after the success of it's Z100 CP/M line started fading. I was told that the Plus-20 hardcard was drop-in compatable. A NEC V20 CPU upgrade was common. There was also a CP/M card available for it to keep the Z100 customers happy. Apparently there where quite a few passive backplane computers altho most of them were industrial. I like it's uncluttered look which makes it easier to work on. Lawrence > I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true > motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this > before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? > > BTW - I hope the page will work OK, it's on an old Pentium 166 running > Linux I use as a webserver. > > Ian Primus > ian_pimus@yahoo.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 14:14:55 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6BE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3DE8C820.2991.9DC10B4@localhost> Towers such as the PS/2 8580 make good end tables or supports for a coffee table kludge. I stopped having a couch some years ago. Not enough room. :^) Lawrence > John Allain wrote: > > > And, ultimately 'what will I have to throw out to keep it?'* > > ... > > *If the answer is 'the couch' then you've lost it. > > I know several people who seem to have no problem dropping furniture in > favor of Good Iron, _provided_ the iron looks or smells good enough for > a livingroom or bedroom :) > > (no, not me... I prefer the soft couch.. ;-) > > --f lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Nov 30 14:16:49 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <3DE8C820.27225.9DC10DC@localhost> I've had about 5 different versions of the "African" scam lately. They must be trading lists of addresses of those dumb, rich North Americans. I use a filter to direct mail to relavent folders so it's quite easy to delete the obvious spam. Lawrence > Hi all, > > I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on this > list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I post > something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And yes, I > varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that spelling. > > Can the ListMaster check on this, possibly by having us all do a > manual "yes, I am here" reply or somesuch? > > Thanks, > Fred lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Nov 30 14:44:59 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: HP 2784B Paper Tape Reader on ebay In-Reply-To: <00ea01c2959e$0aea64e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 05:49 PM, you wrote: >> Sorry if this screws up someone's snipe plans... but it was >> offered a couple of weeks ago and closed with no bids. It >> currently (10:50 am EST) has no bids with 11 hours to go. I >> can't imagine that nobody one the list would want this: >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789314629 Oh yes, now I finally know where my paper tape reader came from! I've had an optical paper tape reader for about fifteen years; I got it with my first pdp8/e from a really nice guy in NJ. I knew it was an HP unit, but it's missing most of its outer covers. The fellow built an interface board for it on a piece of perfboard, and it connects to a Positive I/O Bus Interface board in an 8/e. It works very, very well. I just got it out of storage (hadn't seen it for about ten years) a few days ago. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "You don't have Vaseline in Canada?" St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net Sat Nov 30 14:47:20 2002 From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: PCMCIA/CF flash cards as boot devices (was Re: Modern replica/implementation of a dumb terminal?) References: <20021127183703.48916.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20021127161944.0287b640@mail.30below.com> <002201c2966d$39201240$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3DE6B39C.6060102@pacbell.net> John Allain wrote: >On the site it states: >"all CompactFlash cards from 8MB up to 512MB" >I wonder if that's a CoCo limitation? >Adaptors I've seen like this are completely passive >with nearly 1:1 connection mappings and no logic at >all. > ... and in the FAQ on the site it says: Q. How large of a CompactFlash card will the adapter support? A. Theoretically, any size will work, just as any size IDE hard drive will work. Currently, CompactFlash cards are available on the market in 256 and 512MB sizes. We haven't tested those sizes but feel confident that they will work fine. From stargazerjim at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 14:49:16 2002 From: stargazerjim at yahoo.com (Jim Leonard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: IBM Power supply Message-ID: <20021129004656.31899.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Hi; I found your post thru a Google search for an IBM 06H2973 Power Supply. I know it was a while ago, but I'd be interested in ti if you still have it. Glad to pay postage plus something. Let me know if your interested. Thanks! Jim Leonard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/4f442981/attachment.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Nov 30 14:51:10 2002 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 28 November 2002 00:01 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland > > > I bought one of the last Aces to be sold, when Boldfield Ltd ( I think > that was the name) were selling them off. I also have a fair number of > commerical software tapes for the Ace, mostly games, but also things like > a spreadsheet [1], assembler, High-res grpahics package [2]. > Could you do me some *cough* personal archives for the museum? *cough*. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From trestivo at concentric.net Sat Nov 30 14:53:06 2002 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Decmate III Message-ID: Joe, yes, I'm the seller. You are welcome to come browse the warehouse anytime(as long as I'm in town!). We're in Melbourne Fl. Send me an email for directions. We have thousands of boards, systems, power supplies, keyboards, monitors, printers, cables and more. You can see a partial list at www.tarinc.com (click on the DEC PARTS link) thom email me at trestivo@tarinc.com From aek at spies.com Sat Nov 30 14:55:02 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: What is the Q/UniBus board set? Message-ID: <200211292335.gATNZANs030587@spies.com> > What is this? It appears to be a microcoded interface to a MIL1553 bus From rmx_sys86 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 30 14:56:56 2002 From: rmx_sys86 at hotmail.com (Grant Mc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: 8" Hard drive on PC Message-ID: Hi guys!, Go easy on me, I'm new here and don't know the ropes yet :S I have an old Intel RMX Sys86/330 system (white cabinet)which I'd got working a few years back, but has fallen over again. All I'm really interested in is getting the data (mostly ASM source)on the hard drive onto a PC. I also have boxes full (heaps!) of 8" floppies for this system that I'd like to get the data off and over to a PC. I've searched classiccmp archives and google and can't find quite what I'm after, though I did find ppl trying to run 3.5" and 5.25" fdd's on 8" systems. What I'd like to be able to do is connect my 8" HDD to a PC and D/L all the data directly - likewise with the 8" FDD. Am I wasting my time, or is this possible? Making interfaces / electronics is no problem, and I have all the gear like CRO, logic probe, etc. Hard drive is - Priam Model 3450-10 8" HDD Floppy disk drive is - Mitsubishi Model M2894-63D June 83 8" FDD I believe this is DSDD based on some of the disks I have. Any help would be appreciated Regards Grant Mc :o) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Nov 30 15:00:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <20021130193446.GC480@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 05:42:19PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > I know several people who seem to have no problem dropping furniture > > in favor of Good Iron, _provided_ the iron looks or smells good enough > > for a livingroom or bedroom :) > > You know you are a VAX geek when you realized that you need no furniture. > Your computers just work as well. ;-) > (inspired by http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/index.html) > > > (no, not me... I prefer the soft couch.. ;-) > Put a pillow on the VAX? > Really. A BA123 with a pillow can be a very nice place to sit. It is fairly easy to incorporate operational VAXen as furniture. The deskside servers in particular work very well as end tables for sofas and chairs. Some examples of these being the MicroVAX-II in BA123, the MicroVAX 3600 in BA213. I've had several scattered about the house at various times and they blend in fairly unobtrusively. The casual vistor to my home will never even realize they're computers. However, most people did tend to notice the large rackmount MicroVAX-II in the kitchen were there should've been a refridgerator. At one point I remember discussing the idea of arranging four MicroVAX-IIs in BA23 enclosures to act as supports for boxsprings and a matress to make a bed. The two configurations considered were along the lines of the following (imagine you're viewing the bed from top down through a transparent mattress, the diagonal segments represent the MicroVAX-IIs.) A B ------ ------ |/ \| |\ /| | | or | | |\ /| |/ \| ------ ------ For stability and aesthetics, configuration "B" seemed like it would be the best choice. The front panels would be facing outward with the power source(s) located in the center of the space beneath the bed. Now... given the notoriety of the faulty power harnesses present in the earlier BA23 boxes, the safety is a bit suspect. It would probably be wiser to use the sturdier BA213 based systems, or at least I'd recommend mounting a smoke detector on the box springs. -brian. From muzikman30 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 15:01:55 2002 From: muzikman30 at yahoo.com (David Dickinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: IBM Aptiva Parts Message-ID: <20021130052841.35873.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Bob, Do you still have the Power supply from the Aptiva 2168?? How much would you charge? How would you ship? Is it in good condition? power supply, FRU 06H2973, P/N 06H2971 has 3.3V, and an extra connector, keyed 3 pin with a latch, 22GA black, white, & red Dave Dickinson --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/cd32cbf6/attachment.html From rmx_sys86 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 30 15:03:55 2002 From: rmx_sys86 at hotmail.com (Grant Mc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Optical paper tape readers Message-ID: Re: Optical paper tape readers I have a number of PTR's from industrial controllers (my field). Smallish Facit units (about 2.5"h x 4"w x 3.5" deep) - late 70's / early 80's model ? Mod 4032 (have circuits diagrams and an interface unit for this, and also a diagram I made to interface to bi-directional PC printer port.) I also have one or two older Remex units that's a little bit bigger (about 5" x 4"), quite robust - mid / late 70's model. These mounted on a 19"rackmount plate with power supply (240V input) and a pulse generator to simulate step pulses (though this can be bypassed). and some very modern looking (mid 80's) units from Data Specialties Model R150. These are really cute little units, only about 2.5" all round and weigh nothing. They have a led light source too, so no filament burnout. These have an external interface board about 3" square to link to TTL level and I have pinouts for this. All units are designed for panel mounting, but you could easily mount them in a small metal or plastic case for bench use. I want to keep some of these, but if you're interested, contact me and we'll see what we can work out. I'm in 'down under' by the way. BTW, not sure if anybody has seen the waaaay old Siemens PTR's that didn't use light. Instead they used small wire brushes and contacts underneath - ah the old days! ;o) Grant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/0cda9e35/attachment.html From fdebros at verizon.net Sat Nov 30 15:05:51 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Sharp PC5000 In-Reply-To: <3DE86953.D1B28BC0@rain.org> Message-ID: <000001c2987a$3a276e90$6501a8c0@fred> Shamefully, I admit to running two pc5k's in dos 2.1 with write as an editor and a slew of ham radio tnc's. they never die, those bastards. I can still print on the amazing built-in printer ...fax pix fullsize or aprs maps! Anybody have printer cartridges? And the modem! 300 baud and it does morse code to boot!! The tech man is a huge book but it allows me to fix most everything with a soldering iron. And program subroutines in assembly... when all else fails. Ah and they also never crash! I even tried linux once, then I crashed it at the console output. No drivers... Fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Saturday, 30 November, 2002 02.32 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Sharp PC5000 "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > > "Larry Greenberg" wasks: > > > I also have a Sharp PC5000. > > > Is it worth anything? > > > > "Eric Smith" > > > > Yes. > > > It would be worth Best in Show at VCF 5.0, for example, without the > effort of having to put together an exhibit. ??? I don't think the Sharp PC-5000 is either that rare or worth a "Best of Show". Except for its use of Bubble Memory, I really don't see where it is all that unusual. And IIRC, it runs Dos 2.1 or so. Except back in the "golden days" of ebay, the highest I've seen one go for was about $85 or so. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 30 15:29:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 30, 2 00:44:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1813 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/40682ede/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 30 15:31:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE810D9.30245.7100A89@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Nov 30, 2 01:14:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/e218ec32/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 30 15:33:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Sony Microfloppies question In-Reply-To: <008601c2980b$9ff23cb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Nov 29, 2 04:58:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/1b886fc5/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 30 15:36:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD Message-ID: I've got a IBM 760CD Thinkpad that I want to try and replace the HD with a larger one that I have on hand. After looking over the laptop carefully, and trying to find info on the IBM website I'm left with one important question. How on earth do I replace a HD on this model? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Nov 30 15:37:55 2002 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: The Computer Garage Sale Message-ID: <1038692283.13090.1.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Anyone know what happened to Jim Willing? I've yet to receive the part I ordered from the Computer Garage Sale and emails have gone unanswered. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 30 15:39:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Superb Exidy System on Ebay in Holland In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Nov 29, 2 11:43:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 538 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/958fc7b9/attachment.ksh From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Nov 30 15:42:01 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? Message-ID: Does anyone have manuals for the MultiTech Microprofessor MPF-1B? This is a Z-80 single board computer with a keypad and six 7-segment LEDs for the display. I picked one up as my first Z-80 system to mess around with. I dumped the EPROM image and have started to unassemble it, but of course it would be quicker to just read the monitor source if someone has a copy of the monitor listing manual. I suppose I would learn more figuring out how it works on my on than by reading the manuals. I did some web searching and couldn't find manuals anywhere, but apparently these are still being made today by a UK company that acquired the rights to the design. http://www.flite.co.uk/micros/mpf-1b.html Actually what I really have is an E&L Insturments FOX MT-80Z which is a MPF-1B grafted to an expansion board with a prototype area. I can't find any docs on the web for those either. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 30 15:43:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: 8" Hard drive on PC In-Reply-To: from "Grant Mc" at Nov 30, 2 03:45:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2077 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021130/24f94803/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 30 15:48:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago (was Re: Selling it off. What would you keep ?) In-Reply-To: <20021130183402.34774.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10211301821.ZM8187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >--- Peter Turnbull wrote: >> On Nov 30, 17:57, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >> > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. >> > > >> > > Fortunately, it was. >> > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. >> >> By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States >> including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information Exchange) was >> founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public >> services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. > >10 years ago, I was doing Usenet and email through my Amiga (with two >ST225s and a PC-XT disk controller!) with UUCP. I couldn't do ftp >and telnet and cool stuff like that, but I could at least get a few >newsgroups like comp.sources.amiga and rec.humor.funny delivered to my >door. > >2400 bps, 20 MB news spool! Those were the days. Not. 10 Years ago, I was stationed in Washington DC, and using Holonet in Berkley as my ISP (it was only a shell account). I accessed them via either the Compuserve network (instead of logging into Compuserve, I was able to log into them), or via dialup. Via Compuserve I was able to get 2400 bps, via dialup 9600bps (I had a 14.4k modem). I used 'elm' and 'tin' (I still do), and could FTP files to my Holonet account, and then use zmodem to transfer them to my 486/33 (running DOS, Windows, OS/2, and Linux). The first SLS Linux distro would have come out roughly 10 years ago. It cost me over $200 in access fees ($6 per hour for Holonet, plus Compuserve charges) to download it. I'd download part of it each day, then upload it to a couple of the DC BBS's. I did that for two different SLS distro's. I'd initially bought OS/2 as commercial UNIX's cost $500+, then a in Jan '92 I discovered Linux. I've got to admit it hurt a little when I realized I'd have gotten off cheaper getting a commercial UNIX :^) I kept with Holonet for until around '99, which was well after I'd gotten on Netcom. I prefer DSL, and my current setup. The only things I depend on others for are the physical connection to the Internet and DNS (and I keep meaning to setup my own DNS server). Granted this email is coming from my ISP, but that's because my real address isn't publically known :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Nov 30 15:55:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <3DE809DC.18493.6F4BC89@localhost> Message-ID: >interests which I might focus on as an old fart. Likely on E-Pay >because we're a notoriously cheap (or poor) lot. On a serious note, is eBay even worth the effort when it comes to thinning out a collection? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Nov 30 15:59:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - Tricom Custodian II Network Security System - UK Message-ID: <3DE93517.98C6F434@naffnet.org.uk> I have a Tricom Custodian II Network Security System (dialback system) that needs a good home. The system has redundant power supplies, one Supervisory Module and four Line Modules to give dialback on eight lines. Cables and manual included. Available for shipping costs only, or delivered for a couple of pints if you are local to me (East Berkshire). Cheers, Dave. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 30 16:27:01 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: "Fred N. van Kempen" "RE: Selling it off. What would you keep ?" (Nov 30, 19:31) References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C4@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <10211302228.ZM8618@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 30, 19:31, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > For regular people, I doubt one could get a decent and affordable conn in > 1992 in the UK, Pete. Thats why Cliff started doing UUCP first :) But you *could* -- that was my point. In 1992, Demon made that possible with dialup IP (not UUCP), and it grew very quickly, from an initial base of 200 users. At least one of my friends had an account back then -- I know, because I used it. And by 1994 when I started at York University, Demon Internet was well enough established that several students had dialup accounts, and other companies had followed Demon's lead and produced a very competitive market. CIX did it before that, though it was restricted, as you suggest. And I'm not sure when they moved from UUCP to whatever else they did. The company I worked for at the time had .co.uk accounts in 1989 or 1990 (but I don't know who the provider was). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Nov 30 16:29:00 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: The internet 10 years ago (was Re: Selling it off. What would you keep ?) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "The internet 10 years ago (was Re: Selling it off. What would you keep ?)" (Nov 30, 10:34) References: <20021130183402.34774.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10211302228.ZM8615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 30, 10:34, Ethan Dicks wrote: > 10 years ago, I was doing Usenet and email through my Amiga (with two > ST225s and a PC-XT disk controller!) with UUCP. I couldn't do ftp > and telnet and cool stuff like that, but I could at least get a few > newsgroups like comp.sources.amiga and rec.humor.funny delivered to my > door. > > 2400 bps, 20 MB news spool! Those were the days. Not. Ten years ago, I was still relying on bulletin boards most of the time. I well remember using the dialup provided by Lancaster University (what was HENSA and is now the UK Mirror service), and realising that some distribution I needed was going to take several hours to download. Luckily, I had a friend at York who could use FTP over a JANET link :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From martinm at allwest.net Sat Nov 30 16:43:00 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD References: Message-ID: <3DE93F68.DCAA1ECA@allwest.net> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I've got a IBM 760CD Thinkpad that I want to try and replace the HD with a > larger one that I have on hand. After looking over the laptop carefully, > and trying to find info on the IBM website I'm left with one important > question. How on earth do I replace a HD on this model? > > Zane Start at: http://www.ibm.com/support/us/ Click on Online Publications (on left), then select the model, etc. Select Hardware Maintenance Manual (8 MB pdf file). Look at FRU replacement - the keyboard has hinges at the rear and lifts from the front. The drive is under the keyboard. Martin From fernande at internet1.net Sat Nov 30 16:57:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? References: Message-ID: <3DE941F6.4040007@internet1.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I know Zenith made XT's and 286 systems with that design, I've seen too > many of them go through Purdue's surplus lately. However, that DEFINATELY > doesn't appear to be a Zenith machine - the zenith machines I've seen are > much wider and generally bulky (at least as wide as a PC/XT/AT case, and > deeper - I noticed that when I tried putting a CGA card from one into a > PC/XT and it didn't fit :). Hmm, my Zenith XT wasn't as wide as an IBM XT but was taller. I wouldn't compare it to an AT, although the later 386 Zeniths I saw had a csse comparable in size to IBM AT. It was the later 386's that were supposed to be able to fall off of a moving truck, as I was told. My Zenith XT has 3 drive bays, one on top of the other. I can't tell if Sarks computer does or not. > > Of course, there are also newer machines with passive backplanes, I think > JDR microdevices has sold 'the parts' for ISA and PCI (PIC/MG?) passive > backplane machines. Do you mean those rack mount multiple computers in one case type things? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Nov 30 17:07:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? References: Message-ID: <021601c298c5$48bcb0a0$3b62ec42@default> I have a new in the box MPF-IP not sure if it's close to your IB? But in the box is a new User's manual (170+ pages) and a Monitor Program Source Listing manual that's 69 pages long. Just looked again and there is a 101 page Experiment manual (software/hardware) in the box also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Slick" To: Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? > Does anyone have manuals for the MultiTech Microprofessor MPF-1B? This is a > Z-80 single board computer with a keypad and six 7-segment LEDs for the > display. I picked one up as my first Z-80 system to mess around with. I > dumped the EPROM image and have started to unassemble it, but of course it > would be quicker to just read the monitor source if someone has a copy of > the monitor listing manual. I suppose I would learn more figuring out how > it works on my on than by reading the manuals. > > I did some web searching and couldn't find manuals anywhere, but apparently > these are still being made today by a UK company that acquired the rights to > the design. > > http://www.flite.co.uk/micros/mpf-1b.html > > Actually what I really have is an E&L Insturments FOX MT-80Z which is a > MPF-1B grafted to an expansion board with a prototype area. I can't find > any docs on the web for those either. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Nov 30 17:18:00 2002 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen Slick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? Message-ID: The -IP model has a full qwerty keyboard and 20 character alphanumeric 14-segment display instead of just a keypad and 7-segment LED displays so I assume the monitor code would be significantly different. >From: "John R. Keys Jr." >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: >Subject: Re: Microprofessr MPF-1 Manuals? >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:07:39 -0600 > >I have a new in the box MPF-IP not sure if it's close to your IB? But in >the box is a new User's manual (170+ pages) and a Monitor Program Source >Listing manual that's 69 pages long. Just looked again and there is a >101 page Experiment manual (software/hardware) in the box also. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dan at ekoan.com Sat Nov 30 17:45:00 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <3DE93F68.DCAA1ECA@allwest.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple of manuals: Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) and Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, drop me a line off-list. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Nov 30 18:38:01 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed Message-ID: <00fa01c298d2$2b90a8d0$7d00a8c0@george> Just picked up a R400X loaded with RF-72s (Thanks, Ethan!), includes a terminator but no cable. :( I want to plug it in to my VAX 4000 200, since that's the only VAX I have with DSSI. A DEC part number that starts with BC21M- is what I need, if anyone has a spare they'd like to part with. Thanks! Bob From phillipmilks at juno.com Sat Nov 30 18:46:26 2002 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: WordStar Professional For sale Message-ID: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> Version 5.5 NOS - seal is intact 5-1/4" floppies - Complete in the box !! ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 18:51:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:14 2005 Subject: Sony Microfloppies question In-Reply-To: <008601c2980b$9ff23cb0$1843cd18@D73KSM11> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130192222.528fbbd6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Background: HP was one of th early adapters of the Sony 3.5" floppy disk drive. They were using it when nearly everyone else was still using 8 and 5 1/4" drives. (for example: on the HP 110, 150, 120 and 125; their first two MS-DOS machines and their only two CPM machines.) Present: I've read in some of older HP manuals that some of the 3.5" floppy disk did not open the shutter automaticly and the user was supposed to open it manually before inserting the disk into the drive. IIRC that disk had the double headed arrow symbol on them the same as on the top RH disk in your picture. I've never run across a disk of that type so I don't know how the slot was constructed but I'm be willing to bet that what you have is the same type disk. AFIK they're completely compatible with the latter style 720k disks. I've used "normal" 720k disks in drives that the manuals said could use the early disks and had no problems with them. No idea why the old disk wouldn't work with Teledisk except that I still have not been able to get Teledisk to work on any of my machines. It says that it worked and it verifies the disk but then when I try to create a disk from the image file it says that there is nothing there!? Joe At 04:58 PM 11/29/02 -0800, you wrote: >I was trying to teledisk an old Sony Microfloppy with no success and then >noticed that the disk is different than the other early Sony microfloppies I >have. I have posted some images for illustration at >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SonyMicroFloppies.jpg > >The disk I couldn't teledisk is shown in the two top scans. Unlike the other >two disks it appears to be springless, has an oval opening, and lacks the angled >guide notch of the two later disks. When inserted into a Sony model OA-D34V-22 >3 1/2 inch drive (the one that shipped with the Lisa 2 and original Mac) the >floppy will usually (but not always) insert all the way, but the shutter does >not open. This can be remedied by opening the shutter manually prior to >inserting the disk, in the position shown on the rightmost photo. It "notches" >into place and stays open due to the lack of a spring. The two-sided arrow on >the disk seems to suggest, at least to me, manual operation. > >The next two scans down are of the "auto shutter" disk. This disk has a more >rectangular opening, the angled guide, and also a notch that locks the shutter >in place if the door is opened all the way. The shutter is then released by >pinching the edge of the disk, and the word "pinch" is engraved in the plastic. > >The last scan is of a microfloppy for some Lisa 2 software, which appears to be >a further evolution in the design that corresponds to current disks. The >opening is rectangular, the guide is angled and the shutter is spring loaded and >will not stay open unless held. > >So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design >evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would >prevent me from using Teledisk? > >Thanks. > >-W > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 18:53:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <3DE8C820.14735.9DC1050@localhost> References: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130194535.52cf375e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:15 PM 11/30/02 -0600, you wrote: > I have a Luggable all-in-one Zenith ZFA 161 with a passive >backplane. Z(enith) F( 48 TPI double sided) A( amber screen ) 161 >model 5 (slots) 2 (fdds'). It has an 8088 CPU. > I see yours has a mix of 8 and 16 bit slots. Mine is buried (like too >much of my collection) and I can't remember if I had both types. The >8088 could handle both TMK. What is the processor ? > Zenith had an excellent monitor program to access the BIOS. The >paper tape with the key combination is faded but I can make out >Ctrl _? Ins. Ctrl-Alt-Insert. I remember it well! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 18:55:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130193854.528f2a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:25 AM 11/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true >motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this >before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have >ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an >interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - >http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything >about this? Were there other PC's made like this? IIRC one the XT or AT class machines that Zenith made was built this way (backplane instead of motherboard and CPU and memory on a card). Also A LOT of the industrial PC were/have been/are built that way. In fact, I'd say that nearly all the rack mount PCs that I've seen are built that way. Texas Micro is one such manufacturer. You can go to their web site and see all the stuff that they have. I'm currently playing with a rack mount XT that I just picked up that's built this way. It has a tiny 8 slot backplane with 8 bit only ISA slots. The CPU (NEC V-20), memory, keyboard interface are on a 1/4 length card. The IO card is also a 1/4 length. Another 1/4 length card is a National Instruments GP-IB controller and another emulates two floppy drives in Flash ROM. Best of all is that it has a 5" gas plasma screen on the front of the case and it connects to a small video card. Most of the cards in this one are made by Tempustech Joe > >BTW - I hope the page will work OK, it's on an old Pentium 166 running >Linux I use as a webserver. > >Ian Primus >ian_pimus@yahoo.com > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 18:56:58 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: IUP-200/201 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130194417.52d733c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have one that's not working and that I haven't had time to fix. They also show up on E-bay periodicly, in fact, I think one was on there just recently. I MAY have a manual for it, I'll have to look. Joe At 09:03 PM 11/30/02 +0100, you wrote: >I am looking for an old Intel unit, the IUP 200/201 universal prom >programmer, with software, and information how to use. I have the IUP-F87/51 >module and userguide, and a folder of the IUP-200/201 but not the programmer >it self. > >Gijs Meirmans >The Netherlands > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 18:58:54 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system Re: 8" Hard drive on PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130195339.4ea7a2a8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:45 PM 11/30/02 +1100, you wrote: >Hi guys!, > >Go easy on me, I'm new here and don't know the ropes yet :S > >I have an old Intel RMX Sys86/330 system (white cabinet)which I'd got >working a few years back, but has fallen over again. Holy Shit! I just scrapped four of those things. I bought them (minus hard drives :-( but could never find any info, docs or software for them so I finally gave up and stripped them and saved the cards for my other Multibus systems. > >All I'm really interested in is getting the data (mostly ASM source)on the >hard drive onto a PC. I also have boxes full (heaps!) of 8" floppies for >this system that I'd like to get the data off and over to a PC. > >I've searched classiccmp archives and google and can't find quite what I'm >after, though I did find ppl trying to run 3.5" and 5.25" fdd's on 8" >systems. > >What I'd like to be able to do is connect my 8" HDD to a PC and D/L all the >data directly - likewise with the 8" FDD. Am I wasting my time, or is this >possible? Making interfaces / electronics is no problem, and I have all the >gear like CRO, logic probe, etc. What kind of format are the disks? Intel used a odd double density format on their MDS machines and NOTHING else will read them. I and several others on this list have working MDSs that should be able to read the disks if they in the MDS single or double density format but the 86/330 is a lot newer and may use a more modern format. > >Hard drive is - >Priam Model 3450-10 >8" HDD > >Floppy disk drive is - >Mitsubishi Model M2894-63D June 83 >8" FDD The ones that I stripped all used Shugart drives. IIRC they were 801s. Joe >I believe this is DSDD based on some of the disks I have. > > >Any help would be appreciated > >Regards > >Grant Mc :o) > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Nov 30 19:01:04 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> References: <3DE93F68.DCAA1ECA@allwest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20021130195733.113f45d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dan, I found a NIB Beehive terminal a couple of years ago and I couldn't even give it away. I finally tossed it in the trash. Joe At 06:51 PM 11/30/02 -0500, you wrote: >While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple >of manuals: > >Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) > >and > >Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) > >If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, >drop me a line off-list. > >I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have >a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you >have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). > > >Cheers, > >Dan >http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 19:04:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Beehive Terminal Manuals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021130184453.03101050@enigma> Message-ID: <20021201005819.63384.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dan Veeneman wrote: > While looking for old floppy disks I came across a couple > of manuals: > > Reference Manual for Beehive Terminals, Models I, II and III (1972) > > and > > Operator Manual OCLC Model 100 Computer Terminal (1974) > > If anyone needs any information from either of these manuals, > drop me a line off-list. Years ago I could have used it. Sigh. My Beehives got ruined in a flood about 14 years ago. I got them from an OCLC employee (they are at the edge of town; I know several people who work there right now). I never got them to work back in the day. They might have been strapped funny. I tried to get them going with a PDP-8/a and/or a PDP-11/24. No dice. Hopefully someone can use them. I can't, anymore. -ethan P.S. - also lost an RK03 in the same flood - 8" of backed up rainwater in a basement, followed by several inches of raw sewage later. :-P Caused by improper disposal of feminine products at the beauty parlor next door. :-/ > I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who might have > a Beehive terminal, since they look pretty interesting (if you > have an interest in old computer terminals, as I do). > > > Cheers, > > Dan > http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 30 19:06:19 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed In-Reply-To: <00fa01c298d2$2b90a8d0$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <20021201005429.71512.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > Just picked up a R400X loaded with RF-72s (Thanks, Ethan!)... You're welcome, and it's full of RF-74s. :-) > includes a terminator but no cable. :( I was thinking of it earlier today... can you use a SCSI cable on the blue-ribbon connectors on the board on the side, or must you use the high-density 50 pin SCSI-2-style connectors? Don't know much about DSSI. Know less about the cabling. Just curious, mostly. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 30 19:13:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Sark wrote: > I ran across an old XT clone with bus board in it instead of a true > motherboard. I have never seen an IBM PC compatible computer like this > before. Is this common? I have several XT's, but all the ones I have > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? Kaypro produced some passive backplane machines in that era, and PCPI produced a series of cards for passive backplane machines. There were others, I'm sure. - don > BTW - I hope the page will work OK, it's on an old Pentium 166 running > Linux I use as a webserver. > > Ian Primus > ian_pimus@yahoo.com > > From donm at cts.com Sat Nov 30 19:16:00 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: OT: _spam_ In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C6C2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been checking some dates, and I'm quite sure that someone on > this list isn't for real, but a spam-address-collector instead. If I > post something on this list, I get spam pretty soon thereafter. And > yes, I varied my sender address (a little), and it takes over that > spelling. > > Can the ListMaster check on this, possibly by having us all do a > manual "yes, I am here" reply or somesuch? So that the address collector can have a virgin copy of all of our addresses? - don > Thanks, > Fred > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Nov 30 19:36:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed References: <20021201005429.71512.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013101c298da$5b780540$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 7:54 PM Subject: Re: DSSI cable needed > > --- "Robert F. Schaefer" wrote: > > Just picked up a R400X loaded with RF-72s (Thanks, Ethan!)... > > You're welcome, and it's full of RF-74s. :-) Oops-- You're right, of course. Can't wait to get 'em spinning... Can the OpenVMS page file (or whatever it's called) span disks? > > > includes a terminator but no cable. :( > > I was thinking of it earlier today... can you use a SCSI cable on > the blue-ribbon connectors on the board on the side, or must you > use the high-density 50 pin SCSI-2-style connectors? The vertical board to the left of the power supply is for a SCSI array. Seems the chassis could be loaded with RF or RZ drives, choose yer poison. Alas, I don't have a qbus SCSI controller, nor a quantity of 5.25" FH SCSI drives to fill it with. Taking donations to fill both needs... :) Seriously, I could use a couple of FH SCSI drives for my 4D/35. > > Don't know much about DSSI. Know less about the cabling. Just > curious, mostly. I *think* I might be able to get away with two of those SCSI cables that brings out a (HD honda-type SCSI2) connector to an ISA card backplate joined into one, since I need two female connectors. IIRC the DSSI connector carries out ground on every other pin, and I could make do with <18" if I put the two boxen back to back. > > -ethan Bob From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Nov 30 20:00:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: WordStar Professional For sale In-Reply-To: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> References: <20021130.195306.-548477.0.phillipmilks@juno.com> Message-ID: <20021201022949.GA38022@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe phillipmilks@juno.com, from writings of Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 07:53:05PM -0500: > Version 5.5 NOS - seal is intact 5-1/4" floppies - Complete in the box !! Isn't it difficult to sell something like that when Emacs and LaTeX are free? :-) Somewhere around here I may still have photocopies of the printed documentation from for that version, which a former employer allowed me to clone for my own use. After using it a while, and growing tired of the bugs and other annoyances, I soon began learning about more pleasant and useful alternatives, such as text editors combined with software like nroff, runoff. Idocs MINT, Lout, TeX/LaTeX etc. and settled on the TeX/LaTeX and Emacs combination running on UNIX boxes. Wow, I'm glad that I was never suckered into purchasing a copy of that overpriced WP software. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jim at jkearney.com Sat Nov 30 20:03:00 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? References: <48C17694-0480-11D7-AF27-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008b01c298dd$decee2d0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Sark" ... > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? I can't say much about the computer, but I can say something about Computerland. They were a fairly large chain of computer stores started by one of the IMSAI founders in the early '80s, and focused on the emerging small business market. They could easily have had the resources to design their own clones, I think. As I heard it, IMSAI collapsed in large part because the best people and financing were shifted to Computerland. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Nov 30 20:04:56 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: <10211301821.ZM8187@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Peter Turnbull at "Nov 30, 2 06:21:00 pm" Message-ID: <200212010213.SAA05848@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > I just wish the internet was around 10 years ago. > > > Fortunately, it was. > > Well, yes, but not everywhere, and _certainly_ not for everyone. > By the late '80's it covered most of Western Europe and the States > including non-academic sites. CIX (Compulink Information Exchange) was > founded in 1987, and Demon Internet in June 1992, both offering public > services in the UK. Demon charged UKP10/month for dialup access. I remember Delphi advertising 'Telnet and FTP' access as well in the early 1990s, and obviously when I was at UC San Diego, Net access was no problem. I dialed in with my C128 regularly over a 1200bps modem with a PD VT100 emulator. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 --------------- From dittman at dittman.net Sat Nov 30 20:11:00 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed In-Reply-To: <20021201005429.71512.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Nov 30, 2002 04:54:29 PM Message-ID: <200212010212.gB12CpwN023064@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Don't know much about DSSI. Know less about the cabling. Just > curious, mostly. I know of three types of DSSI connectors: 50-pin Honda, 50-pin microribbon, and 68-pin Honda. I've only seen the 68-pin ones on HSDxx controllers, and they've always been accompanied by a triconnector to convert to 50-pin microribbon. One problem with trying to use SCSI cables is the latching mechanism is backwards. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Nov 30 20:41:00 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: DSSI cable needed References: <200212010212.gB12CpwN023064@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000601c298e3$5b2dedd0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:12 PM Subject: Re: DSSI cable needed > > Don't know much about DSSI. Know less about the cabling. Just > > curious, mostly. > > I know of three types of DSSI connectors: 50-pin Honda, 50-pin > microribbon, and 68-pin Honda. I've only seen the 68-pin ones > on HSDxx controllers, and they've always been accompanied by a > triconnector to convert to 50-pin microribbon. I googled onto an interesting PDF while looking for info in the R400X, it includes (among other things) DSSI cable part numbers and an index of what connector fits what boxen. Take a look at http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB00SFPF.PDF. It purports to cover OpenVMS LAN clustering, but it's pretty broad in scope. > > One problem with trying to use SCSI cables is the latching > mechanism is backwards. As long as it doesn't fall right off, it should be ok-- those BA440 chassis aren't prone to rollong around on their own. Shoot, sometimes it takes more than a little push to get 'em moving at all! > -- > Eric Dittman Bob From foo at siconic.com Sat Nov 30 20:51:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Selling it off. What would you keep ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Ernest wrote: > That, or I'll get rid of my collection of Apple II clones with the idea > that I will continue to collect, repair, and document clones that I > don't already have. Then latter on, sell them too and continue the > process, thus adding new systems to my web page for the main purpose > public reference. And you know I'm interested in acquiring some of them ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Nov 30 21:27:00 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: XT Clone with a bus board? In-Reply-To: <008b01c298dd$decee2d0$1301090a@xpace.net> from Jim Kearney at "Nov 30, 2 09:03:41 pm" Message-ID: <200212010338.TAA03822@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > ever seen had an actual motherboard. I just thought this was an > > interesting machine. I have some pictures of it - > > http://24.194.68.104/computerland_xt.html. Does anyone know anything > > about this? Were there other PC's made like this? > > I can't say much about the computer, but I can say something about > Computerland. They were a fairly large chain of computer stores started by > one of the IMSAI founders in the early '80s, and focused on the emerging > small business market. They could easily have had the resources to design > their own clones, I think. As I heard it, IMSAI collapsed in large part > because the best people and financing were shifted to Computerland. Actually, I still see some Computerlands out here (there's one in Redlands), but I don't know if it's the "real" Computerland, or just a company that bought the trademark. It *is* the right logo. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A Freudian slip is when you say one thing, but mean your mother. ----------- From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Nov 30 22:33:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: Intel RMX 86/330 system & 380 startup questions Message-ID: <7F4D7808.52FAB552.0077BA5C@aol.com> I have a Intel RMX 330 that was working last I ran it (about 1992). I also have a 380 in two cabinets that worked also. I just moved my stuff in the storage locker and ran across them. I have docs and maybe disks. I also have lots of parts for 310s. Any suggestions for starting up the 3450 Priam Hard drives that haven't run in 10 years. I would love to fire both the 330 and the 380 up. They are fully equiped. I think the 380 has a 80286 Multibus card in it. Not sure what format the floppys are. I will see if I can find the information. Who else in the group is into Multibus I? Paxton Astoria, Oregon USA From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Nov 30 22:40:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:15 2005 Subject: OT - Thinkpad 760CD Message-ID: <7EB59705.1563350B.0077BA5C@aol.com> Push the cover latches the other way from opening the top. This unlatches the keyboard which is hinged at the back and folds up from the front. The hard drive, battery and CD reside there. Pull the HD up from the back by the little wire handle. Usually you can replace the HD in the HD carrier. Paxton Astoria, OR From glyncoedcompschool at btinternet.com Mon Nov 18 04:24:09 2002 From: glyncoedcompschool at btinternet.com (Noname) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for TRS-80 Models I to IV (including spares & accessories) Message-ID: <003a01c28eec$a2dd66c0$de16073e@GLYNCOEDJ0HFSH> Hi I live in the UK and am looking for TRS-80 models I to IV (including spares and accessories). If you're fed up of Zork and want some extra cash then email me with details of what you have, the condition it's in, the price you are looking for and where you live. I would prefer UK based to save on shipping costs but will consider anywhere. Regards John glyncoedcompschool@btinternet.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021118/d1a6a79e/attachment.html From glyncoedcompschool at btinternet.com Mon Nov 18 04:24:09 2002 From: glyncoedcompschool at btinternet.com (Noname) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:11:13 2005 Subject: Looking for TRS-80 Models I to IV (including spares & accessories) Message-ID: <003a01c28eec$a2dd66c0$de16073e@GLYNCOEDJ0HFSH> Hi I live in the UK and am looking for TRS-80 models I to IV (including spares and accessories). If you're fed up of Zork and want some extra cash then email me with details of what you have, the condition it's in, the price you are looking for and where you live. I would prefer UK based to save on shipping costs but will consider anywhere. Regards John glyncoedcompschool@btinternet.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20021118/d1a6a79e/attachment-0001.html