From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Mar 31 23:56:32 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you're truly concerned about lead uptake, I believe there is a test you can have done. I have no idea if it's a biopsy of an organ that's most susceptible to lead uptake, or if they can do it with a blood sample. You might pull a MSDS for the solder you use the most, and see what they mention. I solder maybe an hour a week, on average. This thought has crossed my mind, along with all the other dumb shit stuff I've exposed myself to. Paints, fuels, glues, assorted chemicals, sand blasting for a week without breathing protection (silicosis, microscopic particles of silicate that wind up in the lungs), exhaust, Dog knows what else. I do know it's highly recommended to have good ventilation when soldering (something I'm not the always the best about. "Well, it's just tacking a couple wires. I don't need to get the fan out.") And now, with these so-called 'No Kleen' solders, who knows what fumes *they* put off. We pretty much knew what rosin, tin and lead would do. Then you start adding in liquid fluxes and stuff... Who knows. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 0:15 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 > Question)) > > > On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > It's true. The mercury was used to stiffen the brims. > Chronic hat wearers > > > also had problems. > > > > So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors > > produced by soldering? I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the > > smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there? > > > > I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be > > concerned. > > > > -Dave > > Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately? > > > -- > > Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, > > St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar > > > Doc > From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 1 00:50:05 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: JCL (was: Write only programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >:^) Ah! You've never seen JCL have you? > > Argh. GO SYSIN DD....... > > Believe it or not, I once seriously considered changing the spelling of my > name to SYSIN, so that at least the people in the industry would pronounce > it correctly. How do people usually pronounce it? Peace... Sridhar From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 1 01:46:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Non-Sol version of SOLOS For Sale on E-Pay In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A634@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I remember reading about this, I'm surprised they > ever actually sold any: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004920012 It's just a third party ROM board that happens to have a SOLOS EPROM in it. While you could speculate that Processor Technology sold this (unlikely), it's more likely that some hacker back in the day put this together. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 1 01:54:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: JCL (was: Write only programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > >:^) Ah! You've never seen JCL have you? > > Argh. GO SYSIN DD....... > > Believe it or not, I once seriously considered changing the spelling of my > name to SYSIN, so that at least the people in the industry would pronounce > it correctly. The system administrators at my last company almost deleted my Netware login because they didn't know what the SISMAIL account was used for (and who misspelled it :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 1 02:03:08 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A638@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Edward Yourdon recounts an episode in one of his textbooks about a > large assembly language program that was comment-free, except for > a single line (don't know the real processor so I'm faking the > instruction): Edward Yourdon. Isn't he the idiot that played Chicken Little before the new "millennium" and screamed that everything run by computer was going to break and we were all doomed as a species and we should all buy thousands of gallons of water and tons of food and bury them along with ourselves in a plastic bin somewhere out in the desert? I don't think anything he says (or has ever said) has much relevance anymore. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 1 02:05:20 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: DEC BC09J cable In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: DEC BC09J cable" (Feb 28, 21:25) References: Message-ID: <10203010805.ZM22824@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 21:25, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I believe the common order in the States is to swap orange and green > > pairs, which is T568A. > I haven't found 586A to be used more than 586B here in the US. Nearly > every ethernet installation I've worked on used 586B, but I have seen 586A > used quite abit for Token Ring over twisted pair. That's interesting. That's the first time I've ever heard an opinion direct from someone who uses the stuff. My belief was founded on things I've seen written by people who write standards or interpretations of them, no more than that. In other words, not people who actually do it. I always wondered why we'd do it differently. Perhaps we don't :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Mar 1 02:22:04 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Creed Teleprinters References: Message-ID: <01c501c1c0fa$2c4e23c0$0100a8c0@p150> Not exactly a garage full, but a fair number of different models- mainly 5 unit code but some 8 unit stuff as well- and a good selection of technical manuals - mix of both originals and photocopies- should anyone ever need that sort of info. Good to hear there are still others that remember them but never expected they would be mentioned in this group! DaveB CH CH NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Creed Teleprinters > > Anyone got a garage full of them? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 1 02:41:07 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: C64 notebooks, Santee Cal Swapmeet Sat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A couple people were curious about the contents of the notebooks in the box of commodore books, so I looked though them and here is a sample of the contents. Notebook 1 C 64 Doctor, set of floppies in a sleeve with brief manual. SAMS Computerfacts, about 3 sheets of circuit diagrams of the C64. 1541 Disk Drive Alignment Program, about a 20 page manual, no floppies etc. Various articles on printing and trouble shooting., ie May 88 Modern Electronics on disk drive PS. Zenith ZVM-131 Users Manual Photocopy of How to Maintain and Service your small computer, Stephenson and Cahill. Notebook 2 About an inch thick of various clipped magazine articles, ala July 88 Radio Electronics on GPIB. Another is how to build your own modem and save money. How to use surplus keyboards, and various articles on hooking up light pens, speech, and graphics tablets. In addition to these fine and rare notebooks, the following books are still up for grabs. No offers refused unless I get a better one, or don't like it. E. Floegel Commodore 64 Tune-up SuperBase 64 manual SuperTest manual 3 small magazines called RE-Run from 1987 (sorry no floppies). Users Technical manual for a Advanced Logic Research EXT turbo Richard mansfield, Machine Language for Beginners Rouse and Bugnitz, Programming the IBM Personal Computer: Fortan 77 HPBooks, Basic Program Conversion Save on shipping and take advantage of the amazing rare appearance of ME at the Santee drive in Swap Meet (east of San Diego) this Saturday. Anything that will fit in a Mustang convertible along with my wife and son, I can bring down. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 1 02:54:15 2002 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Idiocy on eBay, I can't stop laughing! In-Reply-To: References: <20020228121127.1574D27EC06@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: >> Its a scam. He's just fishing for suckers. > >I had a conversation with him. He's stupid. Very stupid. Maybe we should talk him into joining this list so all the bargains do go to eBay? From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Mar 1 03:00:27 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Need paper tape encoding format In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:39:19 GMT." <10202282139.ZM22251@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200203010900.JAA09317@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) said: > > Lots of unix (including many BSD/Linux) systems have a program called ppt > (usually in /usr/bin/games or similar) which takes an ASCII string and > outputs a facsimile of paper tape. Thanks for that, I just found it on this Linux box. "Man ppt" also listed bcd which does the same for punched cards. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Mar 1 03:09:49 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: MZ3850 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:29:55 CST." <3C7EE7A3.BD71018C@arrl.net> Message-ID: <200203010909.JAA09377@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, no said: > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > On February 28, RMChadwick@aol.com wrote: > > > any body know what the instuction set for the MZ3850 CPU is or better still > > > sourse code for the racal RA6790/gm or variant of that rx so i can change the > > > cpu for one that works. > > > > I too have a Racal 6790/GM...if you find a solution to the > > Unobtainium Processor problem, please let me know. ;-) > > > > -Dave > > Same here. Some months back on the MilSurplus list there was a > discussion > on control software for this rx being developed by one of the list > members. That might be the better place to pose this question. There is also a dedicated Racal list at qth.net which is a good source of help on all things Racal. (I've only got an ancient RA-17...) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Mar 1 05:55:45 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Xenosoft? Re: Multiple floppies in one system? In-Reply-To: <20020301054522.DULN7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 1, 02 00:44:04 am Message-ID: <200203011155.GAA05329@wordstock.com> And thusly Glen Goodwin spake: > > > From: Joe > > > Fred, You've mentioned Xenosoft several times. How about telling us > more > > about it, such as what formats it supports, how much it costs and > wheather > > it supports the Compaticards? > > Funny you should mention this. I was looking through an old > book-of-the-month club purchase, "C Programmer's Guide to Serial > Communications," the other night and I found a plug for XenoSoft in it! > Yah! My company has that book too... In the "Acknowledgment" section it has "Fred Cisin gets one general-purpose kudos." Cheers, Bryan From wilby98 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 1 07:09:36 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: thinning out my Apollo collection Message-ID: <20020301140936.B16833@xs4all.nl> It is time for me to thin out my Apollo "herd". I have 8-Apollo's and plan on keeping only 2. They are DN3500's and DN3000's. Most are complete but a few are missing power supplies. I also have a bunch of keyboards, accessories. They were/are running the Domain OS (the ones I powered up). Most came from one source in the UK. You can see a picture at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wstan/puters I am trying to make more room for my VAXen. Plus, I want to share and give others a chance to have one. They are here in Amsterdam, NL. I can help you with finding a freight forwarder if you want to go that route. Contact me directly for more information. Regards, -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Mar 1 07:31:45 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: DEC BC09J cable In-Reply-To: <10203010805.ZM22824@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Feb 28, 21:25, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > I believe the common order in the States is to swap orange and green > > > pairs, which is T568A. > > > I haven't found 586A to be used more than 586B here in the US. Nearly > > every ethernet installation I've worked on used 586B, but I have seen > > 586A used quite abit for Token Ring over twisted pair. > > That's interesting. That's the first time I've ever heard an opinion > direct from someone who uses the stuff. My belief was founded on > things I've seen written by people who write standards or > interpretations of them, no more than that. In other words, not > people who actually do it. I always wondered why we'd do it > differently. Perhaps we don't :-) Either standard works fine for ethernet or token ring, so long as the connectors are paired the same on each end. IIRC, the token ring specs call for 586A, which is probably why I saw it used, but I've also seen token ring over 586B UTP too. If I get around to setting up token ring here at home, I will probably just stick to 586B for everything, just to keep things simple. -Toth From at258 at osfn.org Fri Mar 1 07:44:31 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <143701c1c0d0$d5548060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Sometimes I wish I were able to programme, and wonder about something like Brainfuck. then I sober up. On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, John Allain wrote: > > Trump card of "far right" languages: INTERCAL. I guess that would > > make these languages fascist or something, being so far on the right? > > > Man, this is getting strange. I just read some programs in a place > called bf-source, if you catch the drift, and popped a few alveoli > (IE,ROTFL) doing so. > > Wish I got as many responses on my SDI vs DSSI thread. > > John A. > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 1 08:01:09 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A638@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Also, remember that obfuscated code is an art form that should bring > > bonuses and raises to programmers skilled in this art. Besides, a > > programmer who can't read so-called "difficult to read code," with no > > comments, isn't a real programmer. :-) > > No comments? I think you're forgetting the potential of comments as > things whose maintenance is a lesser priority and whose relationship > to the code may therefore differ from the reader's expectations. Edward Yourdon recounts an episode in one of his textbooks about a large assembly language program that was comment-free, except for a single line (don't know the real processor so I'm faking the instruction): 1827: MOV AX,0001H ; R.I.P. L.V.B. The programmer brought in to maintain this code was certain that this was the Rosetta Stone to the entire application; if he could figure it out, he'd have no trouble with this code. However, the final revelation wasn't very helpful, although he did give up and finally just immerse himself in the code to gain the understanding he'd vainly hoped he'd get from decyphering the comment. Any guesses as to the comment's meaning? No fair if you read the book and know the answer from that... ;) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 1 08:18:26 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Multiple floppies in one system? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > ASSIGN D: C: > > > > > > Meaning D: would be the equivalent of C: > > > > Wow, sounds just like the DOS/CMD.EXE (NT, 2000) command called > > > > SUBST > > > > as in identical syntax... > > You're right. It's the SUBST command. There is no ASSIGN command (but it > sounded good). Actually, yes, there is... it had problems, SUBST was the cure? -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 1 08:37:20 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: NYTimes: A Long Time Ago, in a Lab Far Away... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > The Stewart Brand-penned article for Rolling Stone > > 1972? That picture of the laptop is friggin' incredible. Yes, 1972, and what you saw was a mockup of Alan Kay's Dynabook, that being perhaps the best extant photo of said cardboard computer... -dq From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Mar 1 14:40:46 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual Message-ID: From: Jeff Hellige >Which manual are you looking for...the OEM or the Service >manual? Thanks to a generous list member, I have copies of both and >could photocopy them for you, with the exception of the large circuit >diagrams. Joe, And if you need the schematics, I have access to an 11"x17" photocopier, so I can get them to you.... Also, drop me a note off-line if you still need that YE-Data manual... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 1 08:49:10 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: A Few finds today some old/some new References: <200203010404.g2144AB11029@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > See: http://www.boundless.com/Text_Terminals/VT/VT_525/ I looked, and it says: "COMMUNICATIONS Connectors: 1 EIA RS232 DB-25 (male and female)" Male And female? Anybody have a VT525 to explain? John A. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 1 08:59:09 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A45@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > How dare you call a programing languge that has the 'Come from' > statement > far right! get your compiler and start writing real code > http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/intercal/ That's not to mention the "PLEASE ABSTAIN FROM" directive... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 1 09:00:31 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A46@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John Chris Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com] > This is a personal tirade of mine. There is no such > thing as a language > that supports comments that can be considered write-only. There are > write-only programmers, but personally, I can't think of a > single language > that doesn't support comments in one form or another. From > using Forth with > shadow files to the latest and greatest 5GL languages, they > all support > comments. Feel free to show an example of a language that > doesn't support > comments, it will be new to me. Going back to intercal, it officially doesn't. There is a (convoluted, like everything else) way to make it ignore a line of code. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Mar 1 09:02:37 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <200203010539.g215ddJ93274@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20020301150237.81688.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> What really irks me are comments like this: --start the loop while SQL%NOTFOUND LOOP ... --end the loop END LOOP; --assign the value 34 to A a:=34; In other words, asanine comments that add no value whatsoever to an explanation of the purpose of statements or routines. I would rather have two lines at the top of a routine explaining what it does and why than 500 comments like the above. Comments like these are caused by managers who demand X number of comments per Y lines of code and/or extremely egotistical and/or lazy programmers. As far as write-only code is concerned, I can write clear, understandable code in many languages; I can also write absolutely incomprehensible code in those same languages! --- Frank McConnell wrote: > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Also, remember that obfuscated code is an art form > that should bring > > bonuses and raises to programmers skilled in this > art. Besides, a > > programmer who can't read so-called "difficult to > read code," with no > > comments, isn't a real programmer. :-) > > No comments? I think you're forgetting the > potential of comments as > things whose maintenance is a lesser priority and > whose relationship > to the code may therefore differ from the reader's > expectations. > > -Frank McConnell > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 1 09:14:57 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A638@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001701c1c133$d9ec00e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > 1827: MOV AX,0001H ; R.I.P. L.V.B. > Any guesses as to the comment's meaning? Didn't read it. Ludwig Van Beethoven (d.1827) seems to work so the comment says nothing. IE 1827 is 1827. John A. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Mar 1 09:29:17 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: A Few finds today some old/some new In-Reply-To: <200203010404.g2144AB11029@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20020301035034.94443.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> <200203010404.g2144AB11029@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020301152917.GB4733546@uiuc.edu> Eric Dittman said: > > > > Sounds intriguing. Never heard of it. Too new, I suppose. I'll keep > > my eyes open. > > I see them on eBay quite often (that's where I got mine). > > See: http://www.boundless.com/Text_Terminals/VT/VT_525/ I actually bought one of these new about 1 1/2 yrs ago for my SGI Origin200 at work. It's a great terminal, I'd highly recommend it. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 1 09:47:28 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301104728.007ed9b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Rich, I don't need the YE Data manuals any more. I fussed at YE Data enough so that they finally scanned them and send me a copy. I do need the jumper settings and interface pin out for the Shugart 851. If you could send that to me I'd appreciate it. If you can't then let me know and I'll hit up someone else. Are you still playing with the Z-100s? I gave mine to Glen Goodwin. You've probably seen messages from him about them on the net. He's really giving them a work out. Joe At 02:40 PM 3/1/02, you wrote: >From: Jeff Hellige >>Which manual are you looking for...the OEM or the Service >>manual? Thanks to a generous list member, I have copies of both and >>could photocopy them for you, with the exception of the large circuit >>diagrams. > >Joe, > >And if you need the schematics, I have access to an 11"x17" photocopier, so >I can get them to you.... > >Also, drop me a note off-line if you still need that YE-Data manual... > >Rich B. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1410.monmouth.com Fri Mar 1 09:52:42 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1410.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs In-Reply-To: <20020301152917.GB4733546@uiuc.edu> from Dan Wright at "Mar 1, 2002 09:29:17 am" Message-ID: <200203011552.g21Fqg851187@bg-tc-ppp1410.monmouth.com> Folks -- I've been trying to find a copy of either ie4 or ie5 for Win3.1/Winnt35 somewhere on the net. I tried the MS install setup.exe files and they both timed out looking for the url. Anyone have them locally cached? I lost my set in a disk failure last year. Either url that works, ftp site, or cd copy would be fine. Bill bpechter@monmouth.com,pechter@ureach.com -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Mar 1 10:12:11 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs In-Reply-To: <200203011552.g21Fqg851187@bg-tc-ppp1410.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Mar 1, 02 10:52:42 am Message-ID: <200203011612.LAA27443@wordstock.com> And thusly Bill Pechter spake: > > Folks -- > > I've been trying to find a copy of either ie4 or ie5 for Win3.1/Winnt35 > somewhere on the net. I tried the MS install setup.exe files and > they both timed out looking for the url. > > Anyone have them locally cached? I lost my set in a disk failure last > year. > > > Either url that works, ftp site, or cd copy would be fine. > I *believe* I have an original IE4 or 5 CD from M$. When I get home tonight I will check out which version it is and if it has a version for Win 3.1 on it. Cheers, Bryan From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 1 10:32:42 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Non-Sol version of SOLOS For Sale on E-Pay Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I remember reading about this, I'm surprised they > > ever actually sold any: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004920012 > > It's just a third party ROM board that happens to have a SOLOS EPROM in > it. While you could speculate that Processor Technology sold this > (unlikely), it's more likely that some hacker back in the day put this > together. No, this was a product, listed in catalogs... my remark was meant to convey that, I just never figured they'd actually sell one, but this is it... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 1 10:35:59 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Edward Yourdon recounts an episode in one of his textbooks about a > > large assembly language program that was comment-free, except for > > a single line (don't know the real processor so I'm faking the > > instruction): > > Edward Yourdon. Isn't he the idiot that played Chicken Little before the > new "millennium" and screamed that everything run by computer was going > to break and we were all doomed as a species and we should all buy > thousands of gallons of water and tons of food and bury them along with > ourselves in a plastic bin somewhere out in the desert? perhaps, although that sounds more like james martin's style... Ken Olsen also said that no one would ever want a computer in their home, nonetheless the products created during his tenure remain very important, especially to people here. Hindsight's 20-20, and lots of people get stuck in their paradigms... > I don't think anything he says (or has ever said) has much relevance > anymore. No, like Brooks, he made points about the development of large-scale projects which remain valid. Yourdon certainly wasn't alone in the Y2K chiken-little mentality... and I don't feel inclined to consign them, lock, stock, and barrel, to perdition, not quite yet, anyway... :) -dq From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Mar 1 10:39:47 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: A Few finds today some old/some new In-Reply-To: <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200203010404.g2144AB11029@narnia.int.dittman.net> <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020301163947.GC4743211@uiuc.edu> It has 2 ports, male and female, that are both connected to the same RS232 port. I'm not sure that makes much sense...basically, it just means you don't need a DB-25 gender changer because it has both ports... John Allain said: > > See: http://www.boundless.com/Text_Terminals/VT/VT_525/ > > I looked, and it says: > "COMMUNICATIONS > Connectors: > 1 EIA RS232 DB-25 (male and female)" > > Male And female? > Anybody have a VT525 to explain? > > John A. > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 1 10:45:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: A Few finds today some old/some new In-Reply-To: <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, John Allain wrote: > > See: http://www.boundless.com/Text_Terminals/VT/VT_525/ > > I looked, and it says: > "COMMUNICATIONS > Connectors: > 1 EIA RS232 DB-25 (male and female)" > > Male And female? > Anybody have a VT525 to explain? No, but my Multia has the same DB25 serial conector. It's a breakout that takes a Y-cable for 2 standard ports. If you google "Multia serial pinout" they're all over the web. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 1 10:52:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: CORRECTION Re: A Few finds today some old/some new In-Reply-To: <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Oops. I've looked at their page several times, and misread that line every time. It obviously DOESN'T say "2-serial, 1 DB25 connector". Obviously, I have no idea what they (or I) are talking about. That's the second time in two days that my ASSumption overrode what was in front of my face, resulting in Hoof-In-Mouth disease. Sorry. Doc From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Mar 1 10:55:02 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467708@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Bill Pechter > > Folks -- > > I've been trying to find a copy of either ie4 or ie5 for Win3.1/Winnt35 > somewhere on the net. I tried the MS install setup.exe files and > they both timed out looking for the url. > > Anyone have them locally cached? I lost my set in a disk failure last > year. > > > Either url that works, ftp site, or cd copy would be fine. > > Bill > -- Have you tried 'The Internet Archive'? http://www.archive.org/index.html --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 90581 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Mar 1 11:23:43 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs References: <200203011612.LAA27443@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3C7FB91F.CA6C9613@arrl.net> Bryan Pope wrote: > > And thusly Bill Pechter spake: > > > > Folks -- > > > > I've been trying to find a copy of either ie4 or ie5 for Win3.1/Winnt35 > > somewhere on the net. I tried the MS install setup.exe files and > > they both timed out looking for the url. > > > > Anyone have them locally cached? I lost my set in a disk failure last > > year. > > > > > > Either url that works, ftp site, or cd copy would be fine. > > > > I *believe* I have an original IE4 or 5 CD from M$. When I get home tonight I > will check out which version it is and if it has a version for Win 3.1 on it. > > Cheers, > > Bryan Also, if you saved any of those cd's that AOL and others used to send out in mass mailings, you may find some earlier versions on ie and ns -nick From maintenance at alfacolor.com Fri Mar 1 11:57:08 2002 From: maintenance at alfacolor.com (maintenance) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Looking for Intersil ICL8048CCJE Log Amplifier Chip Message-ID: <000a01c1c14a$81943900$7c01010a@ALFA> Can any one ponit toward a vendor that sells obsolete chips that might have this part. Thanks in advance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020301/deb3a439/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 1 12:24:14 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Xenosoft? Re: Multiple floppies in one system? In-Reply-To: <200203011155.GAA05329@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Funny you should mention this. I was looking through an old > > book-of-the-month club purchase, "C Programmer's Guide to Serial > > Communications," the other night and I found a plug for XenoSoft in it! > Yah! My company has that book too... In the "Acknowledgment" section it has > "Fred Cisin gets one general-purpose kudos." Joe Campbell and I spent a fair amount of time together while he was writing it, "RS232 Solution", and "Crafting C tools". I didn't completely agree with his level of data abstraction. I also recruited some of my students for him as proof-readers and to test the sample code. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 1 12:29:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: JCL (was: Write only programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > >:^) Ah! You've never seen JCL have you? > > > Argh. GO SYSIN DD....... > > Believe it or not, I once seriously considered changing the spelling of my > > name to SYSIN, so that at least the people in the industry would pronounce > > it correctly. > How do people usually pronounce it? Mostly they just panic over an unfamiliar word, and try a hard 'C', a long 'i', etc. But hardly anybody has trouble guessing ways to pronounce "SYSIN". Most of the "Cisin"s in the U.S. changed their spelling to "Sisson". (which throws away years of heritage going all the way back to Ellis Island). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From adama at cdmicro.com Fri Mar 1 12:55:18 2002 From: adama at cdmicro.com (Adam Antonucci) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Recycle and Save! Laser Toner Refill Kits. Message-ID: <05A0B22FB303D511AA3D00500478055A891550@unused-6> Hello, Im looking for a contact that would be interested in receiving laser toner refill kits for their printers or resale. ADAM CDMicro (541) 471-4133 x3105 (fax#) (541) 471-8836 For more info. http://www.free-irewards.com/cgi-bin/adam/universal_toner_landing.html?m v_action=returncampaign=ltgrf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020301/5c8cbde1/attachment.html From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Mar 1 13:03:49 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: RX02 Bootstrap References: <3C7BF70B.73B04585@Vishay.com> <3C7C21B9.F0E05190@idirect.com> <10202270822.ZM20418@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C7CC124.8DA015B9@Vishay.com> <10202272016.ZM20851@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C7D5427.EBAFAF09@Vishay.com> <10202272358.ZM21195@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C7E0097.1C06A348@Vishay.com> <10202281930.ZM22041@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C7FD095.95778009@Vishay.com> Pete, seems like I have another though: > Er, read the code again. The double-density version only loads 2 sectors, > in *all* the versions I've seen. > > 40 001122 120427 CMPB R4,#3 ; sectors 1 > and 3 get done > 40 001124 000003 Sure enough, your version does that. But I know I have checked with my LSI-11 manual (cited earlier), and there is a word valued 7 (not 3) after the CMPB opcode. Maybe this is error no. 4 in this version. ;-) > > Let me continue, and we can open a contest for writing the shortest > > bootstrap! ;-) > > I used to do that with all sorts of small assembly-languge routines. My > best was saving 200+ bytes out of 2048, in some Z80 code that one > self-proclaimed expert (not the author) described as "a mastepiece of > conciseness". LOL! At the university, a practical training task was to write a bootstrap loader for a Siemens 7xxx system (don't remember the exact type, maybe 7748 or 7751? - said to be IBM /370 compatbile, no stack etc.). We were given a machine simulator for testing and then tried to make the simulated console output a text message a fixed number of times. What the "hardware" provided was only the ability to read a punched card (!) of binary code into memory and start it. You couldn't get away with those 80 bytes on a single card since you had to initialize channels etc., so you first had to read a second card. Some teams even needed a third card, but our solution was the shortest of those that had the complete text (some "cheated" by chopping off part of the line). IIRC, the interupt routine to be activated upon I/O completion for the second card was read from that same second card. Don't believe Java VMs telling you about "just in time"! ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From trip7294 at dowling.edu Fri Mar 1 13:34:47 2002 From: trip7294 at dowling.edu (Rohit Tripathi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris 4D/35 Message-ID: <3C7F30A0@mail.dowling.edu> Hi, We have a Personal Iris 4D/35 with a missing keyboard and mouse. Where and how can I find something that works? http://www.geocities.com/riskyfriends/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 1 13:58:31 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: paging Jeff Kaneko Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301145831.007e2cd0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jeff, If you're out there drop me a line. I've send you at lest four messages recently and I haven't gotten a reply. I don't know if the problem is your E-mail or mine or ????? Joe From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 1 14:33:54 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue, URGENT! Message-ID: <20020301213354.I225642@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. Location: Germany, Kaiserslautern Items: Two Symbolics 3600 Lisp machines, see http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html Yes, they are heavy, big (1,8m / 6') 19" rack boxen. State: _NOT_ working, it may be possible to build one working machine by ripping the other. Free for everyone who takes them. BUT: You must take both (+ console Monitor) and you must take them Sunday afternoon (14:00 - 15:00) or Monday (9:00 - 17:00). If they are not gone on Tuesday, they will be taken apart and scraped. Further details unknowen. No. I can not store them. I already managed the salvation of three 3640 and one 3670 from the same location... PLEASE mail me only if you are able to transport them. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From caprio at dcms.com Fri Mar 1 15:07:09 2002 From: caprio at dcms.com (Don Caprio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Message-ID: <200203012107.g21L79CI022974@dcms.com> This may be a pipe dream but I've always wanted to get my hands on an IMSAI 8080. I used to work for an OEM and we rolled these out to clients by the hundreds. I would like to build an IMSAI. If you have any parts/systems for sale please email me with details. Thank you. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 1 15:07:26 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: SGI Personal Iris 4D/35 In-Reply-To: <3C7F30A0@mail.dowling.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301160726.007ea360@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Did you try E-bay? At 02:34 PM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >We have a Personal Iris 4D/35 with a missing keyboard and mouse. Where and how >can I find something that works? > >http://www.geocities.com/riskyfriends/ > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 1 15:18:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 docs available Message-ID: Hi. I've seen this come up a couple of times with no real solution. I very generous somebody just emailed me the VAXstation 4000/60 "Owner's and System Installation Guide" (EK-PMARI-OM-001) and "Options Installation Guide" (EK-PMARI-IG-001) in Bookreader format. I don't have ftp or webserver space, but I'll be glad to share. I can read these in OSF or VMS, but does anyone know of a reader or conversion utility for Linux? If I had that, I'd see about putting them in PostScript or PDF. Doc From pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com Fri Mar 1 15:26:52 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs In-Reply-To: <200203011612.LAA27443@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Mar 1, 2002 11:12:11 am" Message-ID: <200203012126.g21LQqn00735@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com> > I *believe* I have an original IE4 or 5 CD from M$. When I get home tonight I > will check out which version it is and if it has a version for Win 3.1 on it. > > Cheers, > > Bryan My ie4.01SP2 didn't have it... I may have found 5.0 on tucows. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Fri Mar 1 15:59:19 2002 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 In-Reply-To: <200203012107.g21L79CI022974@dcms.com> Message-ID: <20020301215919.86595.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> no pipe dream, IMSAI is still in business and sells parts for the old IMSAI, see www.imsai.net steve --- Don Caprio wrote: > This may be a pipe dream but I've always wanted to > get my hands on an IMSAI > 8080. I used to work for an OEM and we rolled these > out to clients by the > hundreds. > > I would like to build an IMSAI. If you have any > parts/systems for sale > please email me with details. > > Thank you. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 1 16:04:04 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs Message-ID: Bill, I sent you a private email this morning, but your mail system won't take delivery. Anyway, I have several unopened OEM CD's of IE4.01. Let me know if you want one. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:27 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs > I *believe* I have an original IE4 or 5 CD from M$. When I get home tonight I > will check out which version it is and if it has a version for Win 3.1 on it. > > Cheers, > > Bryan My ie4.01SP2 didn't have it... I may have found 5.0 on tucows. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 1 16:06:04 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) References: <20020301213354.I225642@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <003101c1c16d$4c09ef00$0101a8c0@jay> For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand. But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front. Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns on the drive or a glass reticule? Thanks in advance! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- Regarding... > Items: Two Symbolics 3600 Lisp machines, see > http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 1 16:07:35 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 References: <200203012107.g21L79CI022974@dcms.com> Message-ID: <003d01c1c16d$938138c0$0101a8c0@jay> Have you tried www.imsai.net and thought about getting a modern imsai? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Caprio" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:07 PM Subject: IMSAI 8080 > This may be a pipe dream but I've always wanted to get my hands on an IMSAI > 8080. I used to work for an OEM and we rolled these out to clients by the > hundreds. > > I would like to build an IMSAI. If you have any parts/systems for sale > please email me with details. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 1 16:10:43 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Need paper tape encoding format In-Reply-To: Stan Barr "Re: Need paper tape encoding format" (Mar 1, 9:00) References: <200203010900.JAA09317@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <10203012210.ZM24211@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 1, 9:00, Stan Barr wrote: > pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) said: > > Lots of unix (including many BSD/Linux) systems have a program called ppt > > (usually in /usr/bin/games or similar) which takes an ASCII string and > > outputs a facsimile of paper tape. > > Thanks for that, I just found it on this Linux box. "Man ppt" also > listed bcd which does the same for punched cards. And in case anyone thinks that's off-topic, this is the description from my Seventh Edition man page on ppt: bcd, ppt - convert to antique media So it was considered antiquated in 1979! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 1 16:11:53 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 References: <200203012107.g21L79CI022974@dcms.com> Message-ID: <3C7FFCA9.BE1F8AD9@jetnet.ab.ca> Don Caprio wrote: > > This may be a pipe dream but I've always wanted to get my hands on an IMSAI > 8080. I used to work for an OEM and we rolled these out to clients by the > hundreds. > > I would like to build an IMSAI. If you have any parts/systems for sale > please email me with details. > > Thank you. Well here is the latest word on IMSAI products. http://www.imsai.net/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ernestls at attbi.com Fri Mar 1 16:15:47 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Seattle In-Reply-To: <3C7FD095.95778009@Vishay.com> Message-ID: If anyone is interested: HP150 (a really deluxe setup with software.) ATT 6300 ATT 6300wgs ATT 6300plus Compaq Portable PC Compaq Portable PC with HD Corona PC portable (looks like compaq portable) Monitor for Tandy 2000, with cable (slightly yellowed) These items are all in great condition and fully functional but I need to clear some space and I wouldn't want to try to ship them. You have to pick them up at my place. If you are interested, contact me at ernestls@attbi.com. Thanks From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Mar 1 16:44:10 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <200203010539.g215ddJ93274@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <20020228054909.OLLY28149.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <025701c1c071$92b72c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <002401c1c0aa$28237430$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <20020301025042.GA68804@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200203010539.g215ddJ93274@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20020301224409.GA69773@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Frank McConnell, from writings of Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 09:39:39PM -0800: > No comments? I think you're forgetting the potential of comments as > things whose maintenance is a lesser priority and whose relationship > to the code may therefore differ from the reader's expectations. :-) Another useful thing to do wiht comments is to obfuscate them - for example, write them in Morse code. Also, it can be useful to have a program, or script, which strips all *useful* comments from code, which is ideal for "work for hire" situations; e.g., you want to be able to read the useful comments for future reference to make your life easier, but you don't want your employer or cow-orkers to be able to see them in the copy of the code that they receive, with your copy of the code saved as an encrypted file. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jss at subatomix.com Fri Mar 1 16:45:23 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: <003101c1c16d$4c09ef00$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <20020301163853.Q24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote: > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk > drives for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or > what brand. But - there are two of them in the very far right of the > symbolics rescue picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim > line across the front. Can anyone tell me what those are Your talking about RK03 drives. I think they were actually made by Diablo and that there were other models of Diablo drives that look like that. It looks like the rack in question also contains a DG Nova of some sort. I want some RK03s too. I have no disks for my PDP-11/20. > and if there are any around to be obtained? I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on the list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Mar 1 17:15:50 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <20020301224409.GA69773@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Remind me never to hire you. :-) --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 17:44 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Write only programming > > > Quothe Frank McConnell, from writings of Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at > 09:39:39PM -0800: > > No comments? I think you're forgetting the potential of comments as > > things whose maintenance is a lesser priority and whose relationship > > to the code may therefore differ from the reader's expectations. > > :-) > > Another useful thing to do wiht comments is to obfuscate them - for > example, write them in Morse code. Also, it can be useful to have a > program, or script, which strips all *useful* comments from code, > which is ideal for "work for hire" situations; e.g., you want to be > able to read the useful comments for future reference to make your > life easier, but you don't want your employer or cow-orkers to be able > to see them in the copy of the code that they receive, with your copy > of the code saved as an encrypted file. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & > other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're > above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma > to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 1 17:28:26 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) References: <20020301163853.Q24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <00be01c1c178$ca70a220$0101a8c0@jay> yes, actually, I did see one on ebay several months ago - sadly, my absentmindedness forgot to go bid on it *sigh* Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk > > drives for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or > > what brand. But - there are two of them in the very far right of the > > symbolics rescue picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim > > line across the front. Can anyone tell me what those are > > Your talking about RK03 drives. I think they were actually made by Diablo > and that there were other models of Diablo drives that look like that. > It looks like the rack in question also contains a DG Nova of some sort. > > I want some RK03s too. I have no disks for my PDP-11/20. > > > and if there are any around to be obtained? > > I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on the > list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 1 17:32:52 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I don't think anything he says (or has ever said) has much relevance > > anymore. > > No, like Brooks, he made points about the development of large-scale > projects which remain valid. Yourdon certainly wasn't alone in the > Y2K chiken-little mentality... and I don't feel inclined to consign > them, lock, stock, and barrel, to perdition, not quite yet, anyway... Look, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thought the world would end after the clocks turned to the year 2000 are idiots and deserve to be ignored. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 1 17:33:59 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Recycle and Save! Laser Toner Refill Kits. In-Reply-To: <05A0B22FB303D511AA3D00500478055A891550@unused-6> Message-ID: I LOVE SPAM!!! On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Adam Antonucci wrote: > > > Hello, "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > Im looking for a contact that would be interested in receiving laser > toner refill > > kits for their printers or resale. > > > ADAM CDMicro > > (541) 471-4133 x3105 > > (fax#) (541) 471-8836 > > For more info. > > http://www.free-irewards.com/cgi-bin/adam/universal_toner_landing.html?m > v_action=returncampaign=ltgrf > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 1 18:11:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: from "John Chris Wren" at Feb 28, 2 10:02:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/dc34f413/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Mar 1 18:35:20 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: CORRECTION Re: A Few finds today some old/some new In-Reply-To: CORRECTION Re: A Few finds today some old/some new (Doc) References: <013501c1c130$3fd996a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15488.7752.354180.450332@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 1, Doc wrote: > That's the second time in two days that my ASSumption overrode what > was in front of my face, resulting in Hoof-In-Mouth disease. Your ass can ride something in front of your face? Man, you're a LOT more flexible than I am. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jwbirdsa at picarefy.com Fri Mar 1 18:45:46 2002 From: jwbirdsa at picarefy.com (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Packing suggestions (was Re: PDP11 Redux, or Behind-The-Scenes Bull) Message-ID: <20020302004546.14571.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> Regarding "foam-in-place": make sure the brand of foam you use is tough enough for the job! I recently received a machine whose plastic fascia had been somewhat munched despite the whole thing being foamed in place because the foam actually crushed somewhat due to the weight of the machine. --James B. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Mar 1 19:12:48 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A638@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200203020112.UAA1747580@shell.TheWorld.com> >> 1827: MOV AX,0001H ; R.I.P. L.V.B. >> Any guesses as to the comment's meaning? > >Didn't read it. Ludwig Van Beethoven (d.1827) seems >to work so the comment says nothing. IE 1827 is 1827. As I remember the story, the comment was on a piece of data which was in octal (either the program was a PDP-8 or PDP-11 piece of code), so it wasn't obvious unless you converted to decimal that it could be tied to Beethoven (other than the comment, which was the *only* one in the entire source) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Mar 1 19:18:39 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming References: <20020228054909.OLLY28149.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <025701c1c071$92b72c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <002401c1c0aa$28237430$de2c67cb@helpdesk> <20020301025042.GA68804@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200203010539.g215ddJ93274@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <200203020118.UAA1723188@shell.TheWorld.com> >example, write them in Morse code. Also, it can be useful to have a >program, or script, which strips all *useful* comments from code, This is actually what we did with RT-11. Since the system could be configured via assembly conditionals, customers needed the sources... but the binary distribution contained stripped sources. You only got the comments if you bought the source kit (but then you also got the sources for all the utilities and libraries, too). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Mar 1 19:21:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) Message-ID: <200203020121.UAA1718346@shell.TheWorld.com> >RK03s >I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on >the list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one. Count me as one of them... I have two on a LAB-8/E... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Mar 1 19:21:47 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I try not to do that anymore. And I generally didn't code straight out my head on to the IMSAI or PPU switches. I'd usually write it on paper. I did get to where I knew most of the major 8080 opcodes off the top of my head, and many of the PPU opcodes, but except for the rote memorization of the loader programs (which I don't consider programming, per se. I think of programming as the art/science of designing an algorith/process to do something), I didn't enter stuff off the top of my head. Or at least, very few exceptions. Same for calculators. As to whoever brough up BrainFuck and Befunge, that's not a real programming language for real applications. That's what I call a synthetic language, whose sole purpose was to write a language to accomplish those goals. Granted, you can program in them, and granted they don't have comments, but they're not what I consider "real" or "serious" programming languages. And if anyone writes code for my company that doesn't document/comment it, no programming genius is worth the trouble. S/he gets hit by a truck, I'm out of business. I'll take 3 "ordinairy" programmers over one self-centered egotistical non-comment-writing "super-star" anyday. The super-stars aren't worth their trouble, long term. [snip] > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've done this a > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > > -tony > > From mythtech at mac.com Fri Mar 1 19:22:45 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Seattle Message-ID: >Corona PC portable (looks like compaq portable) I just gave one of these to David W on Sunday... I have two more, but am missing the covers for them. -chris From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Mar 1 19:26:12 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: The Computer Garage: Where in Kansas? Message-ID: <20020301.192615.-520353.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I live in Kansas; where did Jim move to? Jeff On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:00:39 -0800 (PST) "Zane H. Healy" writes: > > > Jim and I are now working on getting the back rent paid. Once > that's > > > under control, we'll then start figuring out the best option for > getting > > > the collection back to his barn in Kansas. > > > > Hmm Red Slippers??? Well it worked from OZ. > > Better get more room out there, because on your way back you could > > make a few stops, wheel and deal and get twice the collection. :) > > Hmmm.... If Jim has a barn out in Kansas now, it sounds to me like > he needs > to stop by my storage units when he's retrieving his stuff. I've > got more > stuff I could dump on him (of course the last time it was his one > son taking > most of the stuff). > > Zane ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 1 19:27:04 2002 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems References: <20020224104408.G11770-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C802A68.FA5BE481@bellsouth.net> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > But the DECdatasystems are a later packaging, right? If so, how late in > the life of the 11/70 are we talking? 1908-ish? I'm wondering what > peripherals I need to look for for it to be a historically accurate, > catalog-perfect configuration. The 11/70 I have was originally a DECdatasystem in the double-width corporate cabinet. It was originally purchased in 1979, and remained in production until July of 2000. It now resides in H960 racks with a front panel from an earlier 11/70 in the traditional maroon and pink. The size of the DECdatasystem cabinet made it impossible to move the system through normal doorways, and I kinda like the older look. > I'm guessing an RM03/05/80 would be OK for disks (and easier to handle > than a RPxx!), but I'm not sure what tape or other things should go with > it. My system was originally attached to RP06 disks and a TE16 tape drive. At the end of its service life, it was attached to RA72 disks and a TU81+ tape drive, which is the way it remains. All of the MASSBUS controllers were removed, but I still have enough parts to put one back together. -- Doug Carman pdp11 at bellsouth dot net From pechter at bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com Fri Mar 1 19:45:02 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <200203020112.UAA1747580@shell.TheWorld.com> from Megan at "Mar 1, 2002 08:12:48 pm" Message-ID: <200203020145.g221j2101284@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> > >> 1827: MOV AX,0001H ; R.I.P. L.V.B. > >> Any guesses as to the comment's meaning? > > > >Didn't read it. Ludwig Van Beethoven (d.1827) seems > >to work so the comment says nothing. IE 1827 is 1827. > > As I remember the story, the comment was on a piece of > data which was in octal (either the program was a PDP-8 > or PDP-11 piece of code), so it wasn't obvious unless you > converted to decimal that it could be tied to Beethoven > (other than the comment, which was the *only* one in the > entire source) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer IIRC as I heard it it was RIP JSB (Johan Sebastian Bach) in either PDP6/10 or 8 code... and the year was in Octal as well... Ah, computing's urban legends... IIRC alt.sys.pdp10 had a post on it. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From pechter at bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com Fri Mar 1 19:49:47 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?) In-Reply-To: <003101c1c16d$4c09ef00$0101a8c0@jay> from Jay West at "Mar 1, 2002 04:06:04 pm" Message-ID: <200203020149.g221nmD01341@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives > for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand. > But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue > picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front. > Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be > obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns > on the drive or a glass reticule? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jay West > IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31? You must have an RK11-C controller... Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 1 20:46:00 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 References: <200203012107.g21L79CI022974@dcms.com> <3C7FFCA9.BE1F8AD9@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002501c1c194$804969e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Has anyone gotten one of these? I haven't liked the concept on which they were built since day 1 and probably never will have one, but the original Imsai front-panel, and some of their boards were pretty decent, though they were always too costly for my taste. Unfortunately, the new stuff is completely incompatible with original S-100 as shipped, so it won't be of any help in debugging the "real" stuff. If anybody has first-hand knowledge of the current Imsai offering, and by that I mean physical contact with the hardware, not just reading the stuff on the web site, I'd surely like to know more about it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI 8080 > Don Caprio wrote: > > > > This may be a pipe dream but I've always wanted to get my hands on an IMSAI > > 8080. I used to work for an OEM and we rolled these out to clients by the > > hundreds. > > > > I would like to build an IMSAI. If you have any parts/systems for sale > > please email me with details. > > > > Thank you. > > Well here is the latest word on IMSAI products. http://www.imsai.net/ > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From root at ns2.ezwind.net Fri Mar 1 21:39:52 2002 From: root at ns2.ezwind.net (Charlie Root) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: test - please ignore Message-ID: <200203020339.g223dqa02969@ns2.ezwind.net> test from list admin - please ignore From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 1 22:34:28 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages (was: Write only programming) Message-ID: <20020302043545.VUS27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner > Then you haven't seen BrainFuck: > > http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/ > > And yes, you *can* get a compiler for BrainFuck. Why you would, is > another question. Holy Cow! Why on Earth would *anyone* use such a language, or spend the time to dream it up? I'd rather write machine code! Masochists! Glen 0/0 From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Mar 1 22:36:29 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Non-Sol version of SOLOS For Sale on E-Pay In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A634@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301202756.01f9c2b0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 07:46 AM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I remember reading about this, I'm surprised they > > ever actually sold any: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004920012 > >It's just a third party ROM board that happens to have a SOLOS EPROM in >it. While you could speculate that Processor Technology sold this >(unlikely), it's more likely that some hacker back in the day put this >together. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Have a look at this brochure: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/articles/1977catalog.pdf Page 15 describes the "2KRO" board made by Processor Tech. The brochure says you can populate it with 1708's, which obviously isn't the case with the board in the ebay listing since SOLOS is 2KB and it is in one socket in the listing. However, it might instead be the ALS-8 development ROM board -- a board containing the ALS8 development system in ROM, but with SOLOS plugged in instead. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Mar 1 22:46:34 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages (was: Write only programming) Message-ID: <20020301.224638.-520353.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> This makes me think of another 'minimalist' language: MOUSE. I have a book about it here someplace. Of course, that been said, MOUSE is positively verbose by comparison . . . . On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:34:28 -0500 "Glen Goodwin" writes: > > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner > > > Then you haven't seen BrainFuck: > > > > http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/ > > > > And yes, you *can* get a compiler for BrainFuck. Why you would, > is > > another question. > > Holy Cow! Why on Earth would *anyone* use such a language, or spend > the > time to dream it up? I'd rather write machine code! > > Masochists! > > Glen > 0/0 > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 1 23:11:41 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual Message-ID: <20020302051258.NLFY9692.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Joe > Are you still playing with the Z-100s? I gave mine to Glen Goodwin. > You've probably seen messages from him about them on the net. He's really > giving them a work out. Yeah, thanks Joe! These babies are *rock solid* and the docs are great! I'm still working on my email project -- using a Z-100 to handle email via TCP/IP. It appears no one has ever implemented TCP/IP on a Z-100, at least under CP/M-86. As nice as these machines are, I was really surprised to learn that there is no active Z-100 group, at least not that I can find. There is a usenet group which gets about one post each month. In contrast the ZX81, my first love, still has active user groups. Thanks again, Glen 0/0 From ysgdhio at yahoo.com Fri Mar 1 23:22:56 2002 From: ysgdhio at yahoo.com (ysgdhio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM Message-ID: <20020302052256.51871.qmail@web11203.mail.yahoo.com> I have a couple of extra copies of the November 1994 Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM available for a small fee. Reply by direct email. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 1 23:22:56 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Data abstraction Message-ID: <20020302052413.MTYC10439.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > Joe Campbell and I spent a fair amount of time together while he was > writing it, "RS232 Solution", and "Crafting C tools". I didn't completely > agree with his level of data abstraction. Fred, what do you mean here? Too abstract, or not abstract enough? The code *is* portable, which requires an certain degree of abstraction. Please clarify -- thanks. Glen 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 1 23:41:26 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages (was: Write only programming) References: <20020301.224638.-520353.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3C806606.A9C1B864@jetnet.ab.ca> jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > This makes me think of another 'minimalist' language: > MOUSE. I have a book about it here someplace. > > Of course, that been said, MOUSE is positively verbose > by comparison . . . . Somebody has updated it and cleaned up the code. search for it on the web. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 2 00:35:49 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: The Computer Garage: Where in Kansas? In-Reply-To: <20020301.192615.-520353.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020302003434.P24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I live in Kansas; where did Jim move to? I live in Oklahoma. If Jim runs out of space in his barn, I'm sure us local folk would be happy to help out. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 2 00:44:07 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: <200203020149.g221nmD01341@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20020302004059.D24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31? > > You must have an RK11-C controller... Right. So say I never find any available RK03s or RK11-Cs. Is there anything stopping me from putting an RK11-D and some RK05s in the 11/20? I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 2 01:01:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020228145413.00805aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Joe wrote: > I need a Shugart 851 8" floppy drive manual. Does anyone have one that > hey'll loan me or make a copy of it for me? Or does anyone have a pointer > to an on-line copy? > > I have a bunch of 851 drives and I need to see how to configure them to > use in place of Shugart 800 drives. Been offline a few days, Joe, so missed a timely response. This should give you a pretty good picture of the jumper settings. - don CUSTOMER CUT/ADD TRACE OPTIONS BRD TRACE SHIPPED FROM FACT. LOC DESIGNATOR DESCRIPTION OPEN SHORT 5E 5E Terminations for Multiplex Inp. Plugged 4F DS1 Drive Select 1 Input Pin Plugged 4F DS2,3,4 Drive Select 2.3.4 Input Pins X 4F 1B,2B,3B,4B Side Select Opt. Using Drv Sel X 3F RR Radial Ready X 3F RI Radial Index & Sector X 4F R (Shunt 4F)* Option Shunt for Ready Output X 3F 2S Two Sided Status Output X 2F 850/851 Sector Option Enable 850 851 4F I (Shunt 4F)* Index Output X 4F S (Shunt 4F)* Sector Output X 3F DC Disk Change Option X 4F HL (Shunt 4F)* Stepper Power From Head Load X 4D DS Stepper Power From Drive Select X 5C WP Inhibit Write When Write Protected X 5C NP Allow Write When Write Protected X 3E D Alternate Input-In Use X 5B M Multi-Media Option Plugged 5C DL Door Lock Latch Option X 4F A,B,X(Shunt 4F)* Radial Head Load X 3E C Alternate Input-Head Load X 4F Z (Shunt 4F)* In Use From Drive Select X 5C Y In Use From Head Load X 5E S1 Side Select Option Using Dir Sel X 5E S2 Standard Side Select Option Plugged 5E S3 Side Select Option Using Drv Sel X 8E TS,FS** Data Sepaation Option Select TS FS Plugged 3E IW Write Current Switch Plugged*** 3C RS Ready Standard Plugged 3C RM Ready Modified X 5C HLL Head Load Latch X 6E IT In Use Terminator Plugged 3E HI Head Load or In Use to In Use Ckt X 8D F**** Remove for MFM encode, Inst M2FM X 7D AF***** Install for FM or MFM encoding Plugged 7D NF***** Install for M2FM encoding X *A 16-pin programmable shunt is **The SA851 offers a standard data provided for the eight most separator as in the SA801, and an commonly used cut track options. optional data separator which These traces are usually shorted properly separates data and clock as shipped from the factory. bits through the soft-sectored IBM The traces can be opened with a standard format and address mark knife blade or small screw driver. area. Trace FS offers the standard separator and Trace TS offers the ****MLC 10 only optional separator. Either may be *****MLC 11 only selected through a shorting plug. ***Write current switch is plugged to the interface. 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 | | | | | | | | Shunt F4 > | | | | | | | | Z| HL| A| B| X| I| R| S| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 From jss at subatomix.com Sat Mar 2 01:12:54 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <3C802A68.FA5BE481@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20020302010415.A24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Doug Carman wrote: > The 11/70 I have was originally a DECdatasystem in the double-width > corporate cabinet. It was originally purchased in 1979, and remained in > production until July of 2000. Mine is in two H960s, and looks to have been manufactured in 1979. It must have been sitting in the scrapyard for a few months, because there is some rust in certain places. > It now resides in H960 racks with a front panel from an earlier 11/70 in > the traditional maroon and pink. [...] I kinda like the older look. I like the older look too, but I was very surprised at how nice the white/blue one looks. I had seen pictures of the 11/55 and thought it would be ugly. Not so. > My system was originally attached to RP06 disks and a TE16 tape drive. > At the end of its service life, it was attached to RA72 disks and a > TU81+ tape drive, At least until some MASSBUS peripherals can be found (and possibly for the rest of the machine's life) I'll probably give it some RA8x drives. I've got 14 or so in various states of repair, and I must have seen 50 more at the different scrapyards I've been to. TU8x units also aren't too scarce. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Mar 2 01:23:11 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs References: Message-ID: <000d01c1c1bb$1c6f8400$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> IE4 for Windows 3.1/NT 3.51 is available on the 1998 Turbo Tax Deluxe CD. The files are: Branding.cab 43KB Browser.cab 2297KB Ie40cif.cab 10KB Ie4setup.ini 1KB Iecore.cab 517KB Install.ins 2KB Mshtml16.cab 1453KB Setup.exe 1399KB If you need them, I can temporarily post them for download. -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Mar 2 01:37:39 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Win3.1 IE4 or 5 install cabs References: <000d01c1c1bb$1c6f8400$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003701c1c1bd$21c31fa0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > IE4 for Windows 3.1/NT 3.51 is available on the 1998 Turbo Tax Deluxe CD. > > The files are: > > Branding.cab 43KB > Browser.cab 2297KB > Ie40cif.cab 10KB > Ie4setup.ini 1KB > Iecore.cab 517KB > Install.ins 2KB > Mshtml16.cab 1453KB > Setup.exe 1399KB > > If you need them, I can temporarily post them for download. > > -W > > Once you know these file names, a Google search will reveal several sources, for example: http://edv2.rgorg23.asn-wien.ac.at/Software/browser/microsoft/ie40_16/ Also, IE5 for Windows 3.1 can be obtained at: http://mvmpc200.ciw.uni-karlsruhe.de/~mvmpc9/public/uka_ppp/internet/tools/clients/ie5w31/ From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Mar 2 05:48:13 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: More eBay fun In-Reply-To: <011b01c1c0c5$2741d280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: "For S-100 bus. In new condition (never used). Contains a 6800 microprocessor (shades of the old Apple!). There were not very many of these sold. The concept was to have both a 8080 CPU board and a 6800 (presumably much more powerful) in the same computer, both using the same address lines and clock. Switching between the two was done through a software call. " Say what? Apple? 6800? "much more powerful"? On my planet, history went a little differently. The Allies won WWII, Nixon was president, Apples had 6502s, and by the time this card was manufactured, the 8080 had a good deal more throughput. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2006340966 --John From vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu Sat Mar 2 05:49:53 2002 From: vassilip at dsl.cis.upenn.edu (vassilip@dsl.cis.upenn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed Message-ID: <200203021149.g22BnrN14554@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Hi, I have just acquired an IPC with the basic ROM, a 1Mb ram board and a second HP-IB board. I have downloaded the IPC images from the Peter Johnson's site but I can't get the IPC to read them. So I want to check whether the floppy drive works (the mechanism was stuck and I have to take it apart and clean/oil the mechanism). I guess that PAM is more or less useless, so I am trying to access the floppy from Basic. Basic looks similar to that of the Series 80, but I had no luck with the MASS STORAGE IS command. Is there a list of commands somewhere. Also I tried connecting a 9122D external HP-IB dual floppy, the system didn't seem to notice it was there. Finally, anybody knows how to format a floppy on the IPC? Thanks **vp From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1405.monmouth.com Sat Mar 2 06:01:14 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1405.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: <20020302004059.D24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Mar 2, 2002 00:44:07 am" Message-ID: <200203021201.g22C1Ev06418@bg-tc-ppp1405.monmouth.com> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31? > > > > You must have an RK11-C controller... > > Right. So say I never find any available RK03s or RK11-Cs. Is there > anything stopping me from putting an RK11-D and some RK05s in the 11/20? Absolutely not, IIRC it's a straight Unibus backplane. > > I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by > the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself. I'm not sure... it was probably either + or - 15..._ If you put it in an external ba11-k you should be fine. (Although I don't know if thats going to hurt the museum quality-ness) Unfortunately I know some RK05's and DEC TE/TU tape drives that were scrapped in the late 80's for the aluminum baseplate scrap value. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 2 08:44:40 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:59 2005 Subject: The Computer Garage: Where in Kansas? Message-ID: <20020302064224.Y8087-100000@agora.rdrop.com> > I live in Kansas; where did Jim move to? > Jeff Yates Center. Southeast corner(ish), about 100 miles East of Wichita. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Mar 2 08:58:44 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages Message-ID: <20020302.091159.-218173.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Yeah-- After I posted that message, I looked it up. I was very surprised to find a web page for MOUSE, not to mention a personal web page for Peter Grogono, the guy who invented it! BTW-- He did write what I still consider to be the definitive introductory PASCAL text: _Programming_in_PASCAL_. Short. Concise. Just about everything you need to know, without reference to a specific implementation. Awesome book. They don't write 'em like that anymore-- it doesn't take up enough shelf space. Jeff On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:41:26 -0700 Ben Franchuk writes: > jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > > This makes me think of another 'minimalist' language: > > MOUSE. I have a book about it here someplace. > > > > Of course, that been said, MOUSE is positively verbose > > by comparison . . . . > Somebody has updated it and cleaned up the code. search for it on > the > web. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Mar 2 09:29:16 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A64A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > I don't think anything he says (or has ever said) has much relevance > > > anymore. > > > > No, like Brooks, he made points about the development of large-scale > > projects which remain valid. Yourdon certainly wasn't alone in the > > Y2K chiken-little mentality... and I don't feel inclined to consign > > them, lock, stock, and barrel, to perdition, not quite yet, anyway... > > Look, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thought the world would end > after the clocks turned to the year 2000 are idiots and deserve to be > ignored. Ah, c'mon... if a flat-earther suggests wearing seat belts is a Good Idea, you aren't going to stop wearing them, are you? ;) -dq From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Mar 2 09:53:48 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Recycle and Save! Laser Toner Refill Kits. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I LOVE SPAM!!! > Sellam, why the sudden change of heart? -- Pat From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Mar 2 10:03:26 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed In-Reply-To: <200203021149.g22BnrN14554@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: >Hi, > I have just acquired an IPC with the basic ROM, a 1Mb ram board >and a second HP-IB board. I have downloaded the IPC images from the Peter >Johnson's site but I can't get the IPC to read them. I'm afraid I can't help you with your list of questions. However, I am curious, where is this site? My wife just found me a 4th IPC a couple weeks ago, and this one looks to have HP-UX 5.0 in ROM. It's on my list of things to get checked out. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 2 11:17:34 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Need paper tape encoding format In-Reply-To: <200203010900.JAA09317@citadel.metropolis.local> from Stan Barr at "Mar 1, 2 09:00:27 am" Message-ID: <200203021717.JAA11210@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Lots of unix (including many BSD/Linux) systems have a program called ppt > > (usually in /usr/bin/games or similar) which takes an ASCII string and > > outputs a facsimile of paper tape. > > Thanks for that, I just found it on this Linux box. "Man ppt" also > listed bcd which does the same for punched cards. stockholm:/home/spectre/% man ppt There is not an entry for ppt. *sniff* Guess not AIX -- I'll have to look on my NetBSD system. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you had any brains at all, you'd be dangerous. -------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 2 12:18:59 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed" (Mar 2, 8:03) References: Message-ID: <10203021818.ZM24792@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 2, 8:03, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm afraid I can't help you with your list of questions. However, I am > curious, where is this site? My wife just found me a 4th IPC a couple > weeks ago, and this one looks to have HP-UX 5.0 in ROM. It's on my list of > things to get checked out. http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 2 12:20:59 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun References: Message-ID: <3C81180B.A86372F6@jetnet.ab.ca> John Chris Wren wrote: > Say what? Apple? 6800? "much more powerful"? On my planet, history went > a little differently. The Allies won WWII, Nixon was president, Apples had > 6502s, and by the time this card was manufactured, the 8080 had a good deal > more throughput. Now if they came out with a real 12/24 bit cpu chip in late 1970's that would have been power. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 2 12:22:41 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Data abstraction In-Reply-To: <20020302052413.MTYC10439.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Fred, what do you mean here? Too abstract, or not abstract enough? The > code *is* portable, which requires an certain degree of abstraction. > Please clarify -- thanks. Entirely an issue of personal preference. Consider three hypothetical forms of source code: A: MOV AH, 2 MOV DL, 41h INT 21h B: MOV AH, 2 ; character display function MOV DL, 'B' INT 21h ; DOS API C: MOV AH, DISPLAY MOV DL, OURCHAR INT DOSSERVICES I prefer B, but there were a few cases where I felt that he was tending towards C. (and plenty of times when I slip into writing A) Abstraction is very useful and necessary for some types of portability. But I don't like to have to go thorough a separate .H file to find out what the code is that is being abstracted. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Mar 2 12:36:41 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed References: Message-ID: <002001c1c219$32a48be0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > I'm afraid I can't help you with your list of questions. However, I am > curious, where is this site? http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html From micheladam at theedge.ca Sat Mar 2 12:43:51 2002 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed References: Message-ID: <001901c1c21a$475e86c0$78697ed8@theedge.ca> A google search with 'hp ipc peter johnson' yield http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html Michel Adam michela@kirk.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: Re: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed > >Hi, > > I have just acquired an IPC with the basic ROM, a 1Mb ram board > >and a second HP-IB board. I have downloaded the IPC images from the Peter > >Johnson's site but I can't get the IPC to read them. > > I'm afraid I can't help you with your list of questions. However, I am > curious, where is this site? My wife just found me a 4th IPC a couple > weeks ago, and this one looks to have HP-UX 5.0 in ROM. It's on my list of > things to get checked out. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 2 12:54:02 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: My last VMS question: %INIT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled Message-ID: <3C811FCA.7080509@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, last night was supposed to be the last time I was going to boot VMS before it will be forever banished from my house (because we finally have an Ultrix 4.5 tape and my uVAX-II runs NetBSD and Ultrix and can write to TK50 :-). The only reason I had to boot VMS once more was to write myself a uVAX diagnostic tape. And of course, whenever you start VMS you're in for trouble :-) I'll cut it short and ask your help for the following matter. Part of the diagnostics tape procedure is to initialize a file system on the TK50 with this command (I didn't invent this, it comes right from a DEC supplied DCL script.) $ INITIALIZE MUC6: ELAN When that runs the tape scrunches and spins happily until suddenly: %PBC0, Port is Reinitializing ( 45 Retries Left). Check the Error Log. %INIT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled What the heck does that mean? Yes I have VOLPRO privilleges and I think the tape writes fine, as I have used it for other reads and writes. It happens with both VMS 7.1 and VMS 5.4. There is probably some "obvious" thing you have to do, but what? Here is the error log, if it tells you anything: ****** ENTRY 3677., ERROR SEQUENCE 110. LOGGED ON SID 0B000006 ERL$LOGSTATUS ENTRY KA64A CPU FW REV# 6. CONSOLE FW REV# 4.0 XMI NODE # 1. I/O SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MUC6: MSLG$L_CMD_REF 61F60004 ORB$L_OWNER 00000000 OWNER UIC [000,000] UCB$L_CHAR 0CC44038 DIRECTORY STRUCTURED SINGLE DIRECTORY "SEQUENTIAL BLOCK" ORIENTED FILE ORIENTED AVAILABLE ERROR LOGGING ALLOCATED CAPABLE OF INPUT CAPABLE OF OUTPUT UCB$L_OPCNT 00000029 41. QIO'S THIS UNIT UCB$W_ERRCNT 0003 3. ERRORS THIS UNIT UCB$W_STS 0810 ONLINE SOFTWARE VALID CDRP$L_MEDIA 00000000 CDRP$W_FUNC 000C READ PHYSICAL BLOCK CDRP$L_BCNT 00000050 TRANSFER SIZE 80. BYTE(S) CDRP$W_BOFF 0170 368. BYTE PAGE OFFSET CDRP$L_PID 0001000D REQUESTOR "PID" CDRP$Q_IOSB 000001F4 00000000 IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED I think it's got something to do with this "SOFTWARE VALID" status, but what is that and how can I convince this thing to go ahead? thanks for your help, this is just about the last time I'm going to bother you with my silly VMS questions. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Mar 2 13:16:38 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun References: <3C81180B.A86372F6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C812516.56AEB39@tiac.net> What about the 6100? Ben Franchuk wrote: > John Chris Wren wrote: > > > Say what? Apple? 6800? "much more powerful"? On my planet, history went > > a little differently. The Allies won WWII, Nixon was president, Apples had > > 6502s, and by the time this card was manufactured, the 8080 had a good deal > > more throughput. > > Now if they came out with a real 12/24 bit cpu chip in late 1970's that > would have been power. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Mar 2 13:47:02 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives. References: <200203020149.g221nmD01341@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3C812C36.DE177A87@tiac.net> Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885 floppy disk system? Or Media? I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols for using these drives in HP1000 systems. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Mar 2 13:51:48 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A64C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Rest In Peace, Ludwig Van Beethoven is correct. The programmer had finally figured out the original coder's intent, and found it had nothing to do with the program at all. The original coder seems to have been amused by seeing the composer's year of death at that address and added the comment. The point of the yarn was to be careful in relying on the comments. I've gone through source code where I had a historical trail of changes, and found that some programmers change the code but don't update the comments. They should be shot for this behavoir, but then there might not be enough programmers to go around... ...if only... -dq > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:15 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Write only programming > > > > 1827: MOV AX,0001H ; R.I.P. L.V.B. > > Any guesses as to the comment's meaning? > > Didn't read it. Ludwig Van Beethoven (d.1827) seems > to work so the comment says nothing. IE 1827 is 1827. > > John A. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 2 14:07:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?) In-Reply-To: <200203020149.g221nmD01341@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Mar 1, 2 08:49:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/2716340d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 2 14:08:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages (was: Write only programming) In-Reply-To: <20020302043545.VUS27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 1, 2 11:34:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 99 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/4d1a2105/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 2 14:12:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: <20020302004059.D24046-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 2, 2 00:44:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/cbdd6c18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 2 14:15:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun In-Reply-To: from "John Chris Wren" at Mar 2, 2 06:48:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/00aa44f5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 2 14:17:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A64A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Mar 2, 2 10:29:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020302/3ffe5bf8/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Mar 2 14:58:02 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Y2K non-event was RE: Write only programming In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A63D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C80E87A.16312.36B52AE8@localhost> Or cynical marketers. It did provide a boost to the economy for some. I'm still waiting for all the people who bought gas generators to grow tired of having them kicking around in the garage or basement and to start flooding the resale market. I wish someone had come up with a general fix for the programs like Sidekick or Lotus Organiser that don't work now. Not enough money in it. The Chicken Littles who made big bucks popularising the scam should be sentence to hard labor providing fixes. Lawrence > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > I don't think anything he says (or has ever said) has much relevance > > > anymore. > > > > No, like Brooks, he made points about the development of large-scale > > projects which remain valid. Yourdon certainly wasn't alone in the > > Y2K chiken-little mentality... and I don't feel inclined to consign > > them, lock, stock, and barrel, to perdition, not quite yet, anyway... > > Look, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who thought the world would end > after the clocks turned to the year 2000 are idiots and deserve to be > ignored. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From foo at siconic.com Sat Mar 2 17:06:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: <003101c1c16d$4c09ef00$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote: > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives > for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand. > But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue > picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front. > Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be > obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns > on the drive or a glass reticule? > > > http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html I'm sure this has been answered already, but those are Diablo 31 drives. I've got one that came with my Nicolet 1080 machine. I also have an RK05f which is the DEC OEM version. On another (old) topic, are you still interested in that HP 7970E tape drive? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Mar 2 17:29:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > "For S-100 bus. In new condition (never used). Contains a 6800 > microprocessor (shades of the old Apple!). There were not very many of these > sold. The concept was to have both a 8080 CPU board and a 6800 (presumably > much more powerful) in the same computer, both using the same address lines > and clock. Switching between the two was done through a software call. " > > Say what? Apple? 6800? "much more powerful"? On my planet, history went > a little differently. The Allies won WWII, Nixon was president, Apples had > 6502s, and by the time this card was manufactured, the 8080 had a good deal > more throughput. Well, technically, the Apple-1 could be jumpered to use a 6800 instead of a 6502. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Mar 2 17:38:09 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Grid LT 1755 bat indicator Message-ID: <3C810E01.4131.3747CAA1@localhost> I've scoured the net, even joined the URGrid mail-list, read the Tandy specs closely, but can't find any info as to what the flashing red battery indicator means on my Grid 1755. Even the Grid proponents pass on it. It works but the battery had gone belly-up. I bought a "new" battery and for a while the former orange changed to green but later on changed to the flashing red. It accepts minimal charge but not enough to power the HD when off charge and displays the low-power steady red indicator before dying. If it was simply indicating a dead battery the old one wouldn't display a steady orange. Could it be lack of enough amperage from my adaptor to be able to charge ? I submit myself to the collective knowledge of the list. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From foo at siconic.com Sat Mar 2 17:38:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: A proposal for a definitive URL linc source site In-Reply-To: <3C812621.9408.37A60882@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The problem is the common problem on the net of too much information. > Sellams site is a case in point, and IINM my site-list from T3C served > as a source for his some of his list. The multitude of sites is just too > overwhelming. I've been really want to add some intelligence to the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl I want to eventually turn it into a search engine for classic computer sites, where it will target the sites listed in the library and get some keywords from them to drive a search engine. So if you wanted to find info on, say, the C64 disk format, instead of having to check through every Commodore link, you would ideally be able to plug that into the search engine and it would point you to the site. That being pitched, Google seems to do a pretty good job of finding stuff for you on the first try. > Sellams site would likely be the best place to list such a thing as it > is well- known and would likely need only a minimum of re-organisation. I'm game for hosting it. > The main thing would be that the listing was the authoritive site in the > opinion of the list, and save a collector from tedius Google searches. > Possibly even a rating system could be used. I'm sure rankings could be automated using a Google-like mechanism, i.e. sites with the most links TO them will receive top ranking and be considered the "definitive site". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dancohoe at oxford.net Sat Mar 2 18:27:10 2002 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives. In-Reply-To: <3C812C36.DE177A87@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001401c1c24a$47f17720$0f1defd1@DCOHOE> I found this in the 9000 series 300 Configuration Reference Manual: The 9885M/S are 500 Kbyte 8-in flexible Disc drives. The masster drives are GPIO interfaced. THey are no longer supplied, having been replaced by the 9895A. Interface and Command set GPIO, unique Seek time 267 ms average Average Latency 83.3 ms Transfer Rate 23 Kbytes/sec. Formatted Capacity 499200 (per flex medium) Bytes per sector 256 Sectors per Track 30 Tracks per surface 67 (plus spares) Surfaces per drive 1 Format options none Media 9164-0105 (box of 10) There are some more details of interfacing to the series 300 Basic and Pascal systems using a 98622A Option 002 GPIO interface. I don't have easy access to scan anything; there is more information about the 9895A in the book. I have a 9885M, but no manual for it. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:47 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives. > > > Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885 floppy disk system? > > Or Media? > > I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols > for using these drives > in HP1000 systems. > > > From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Sat Mar 2 19:18:39 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) Message-ID: <200203030118.AA08989@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 02:18:26 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) > In-Reply-To: > > OK, maybe my deal is related to that, maybe not. It's been bugging me > for a while, though. > I have a number of older Seagate Hawk narrow SCSI 1G-2G drives. I have > a couple of LC 475s, the SE/30, and a IIci. I've never gotten one of > the Seagates to work as the internal drive on any of the older Macs > without using a cable terminator. I've tried term power to drive, to > bus, from bus, and IIRC, one of the 1G Hawks allows term power both to > the drive and from the bus. Never works. Terminated cable always > works. > "Somebody 'splain this wonderment to me!" Easy. Some computers with internal SCSI drives do not have a separate terminator at the source (host adapter) end of the SCSI bus. They depend on a terminator being present in/on the first drive. With no terminator at all, the resting signal level on the SCSI bus is not pulled up (to about +3V) so the open-collector bus drivers on the host adapter or on the hard drive can't produce any detectable signal by pulling the bus lines down to ground. Computers that are built like this include some Macs, all NeXTs, and probably others that I don't know about. Not SparcStations, they have internal bus termination built onto the motherboard. < http:www.scsifaq.org> carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Mar 2 19:21:05 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: A proposal for a definitive URL linc source site Message-ID: <3C812621.9408.37A60882@localhost> I've spent some years on the net searching for info on my latest acquisition and how to get it functioning. In the mutitude of sites available some provided useful info on the machine or platform while others simply supplied pictures of a collection. Sources could lead you to a multitude of sites before you found the one that answered your questions, if you were lucky. The problem is the common problem on the net of too much information. Sellams site is a case in point, and IINM my site-list from T3C served as a source for his some of his list. The multitude of sites is just too overwhelming. What would be good is the definitive computer site for each computer or the catagory you're looking for. Jeff Helliges site for the Tandy 2000 http://www.cchaven.com Tim Manns TRS80 site http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80new.html Kees Travers TRS m.II http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/modelii.html Merch's site for the m.100 ( Can't find it in my list.Put it in your sig file Merch) For the CoCo http://zeppelin.tzo.cc/coco/coco.jhtml Tandy 1000 page (can't find it- Red dog page ?) As examples just for the Tandy boxes. comprehensive sites like the PCjr one http://mail.magnaspeed.net/~mbbrutman/PCjr/pcjr.html or any of the PS/2 Mafia pages and the IBM Can site for most models It would still comprise a multitude of info but would point you to the best sources of info on that box you just acquired. And of course generate a bunch of disagreements on the list as to the most authoritive site. Sellams site would likely be the best place to list such a thing as it is well- known and would likely need only a minimum of re-organisation. And of course could have various sections for those into micros, minis, and even mainframes. Rogers site could be a kickoff for Laptops. The main thing would be that the listing was the authoritive site in the opinion of the list, and save a collector from tedius Google searches. Possibly even a rating system could be used. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 2 19:44:45 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives. In-Reply-To: <3C812C36.DE177A87@tiac.net> References: <200203020149.g221nmD01341@bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020302204445.007eeb20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob, I think I have a service manual for it. I've also got some 8" HP disks but I don't know if they were written on the 9885 or 9895. The 9885 uses an option 85 16 bit parallel interface. I have a couple of them around here (for the 9825). If you've got a 9825 available you might be able to connect one up and connect a logic analyzer to the interface/drive junction and figure out what's going on. Joe At 02:47 PM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885 floppy disk system? > >Or Media? > >I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols for using these drives >in HP1000 systems. > > > From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Mar 2 19:47:45 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 3/2/02 2:15 PM, Tony Duell at ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > Actually, didn't the Apple 1 have the PCB layed out to use either a 6800 > or a 6502 (2 40 pin DIL positions). You'd have to change the firmware too > of course. but I thought I read that the 6502 was the lower cost option > that everybody actaully used (for suitably small values of 'everybody') > but a 6800 was possible too. I noticed on some TV show that showed the Apple I board close up, a socket with a "6800" label next to it. Thought it was interesting, but didn't give it much thought beyond that. -- Owen Robertson From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 2 19:55:29 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020228145413.00805aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020302205529.007eb510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Don, Thanks for posting these. I know that I just asked for the jumper settings but I think I'm going to need more. I want to replace some Shugart 800s in my Intel MDS with the Shugarts 851s and I've been studying the interface, wiring and S 800 setup and Intel has cobbled up a truely bizzarre setup and I think I'm going to need the whole OEM setup manual for the 851 so that I can find out where to make some of the circuit modifications. A couple of people have already promised to get me a copy. Thanks. Joe At 11:01 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I need a Shugart 851 8" floppy drive manual. Does anyone have one that >> hey'll loan me or make a copy of it for me? Or does anyone have a pointer >> to an on-line copy? >> >> I have a bunch of 851 drives and I need to see how to configure them to >> use in place of Shugart 800 drives. > >Been offline a few days, Joe, so missed a timely response. This should >give you a pretty good picture of the jumper settings. > > - don > > > CUSTOMER CUT/ADD TRACE OPTIONS >BRD TRACE SHIPPED FROM FACT. >LOC DESIGNATOR DESCRIPTION OPEN SHORT >5E 5E Terminations for Multiplex Inp. Plugged >4F DS1 Drive Select 1 Input Pin Plugged >4F DS2,3,4 Drive Select 2.3.4 Input Pins X >4F 1B,2B,3B,4B Side Select Opt. Using Drv Sel X >3F RR Radial Ready X >3F RI Radial Index & Sector X >4F R (Shunt 4F)* Option Shunt for Ready Output X >3F 2S Two Sided Status Output X >2F 850/851 Sector Option Enable 850 851 >4F I (Shunt 4F)* Index Output X >4F S (Shunt 4F)* Sector Output X >3F DC Disk Change Option X >4F HL (Shunt 4F)* Stepper Power From Head Load X >4D DS Stepper Power From Drive Select X >5C WP Inhibit Write When Write Protected X >5C NP Allow Write When Write Protected X >3E D Alternate Input-In Use X >5B M Multi-Media Option Plugged >5C DL Door Lock Latch Option X >4F A,B,X(Shunt 4F)* Radial Head Load X >3E C Alternate Input-Head Load X >4F Z (Shunt 4F)* In Use From Drive Select X >5C Y In Use From Head Load X >5E S1 Side Select Option Using Dir Sel X >5E S2 Standard Side Select Option Plugged >5E S3 Side Select Option Using Drv Sel X >8E TS,FS** Data Sepaation Option Select TS FS Plugged >3E IW Write Current Switch Plugged*** >3C RS Ready Standard Plugged >3C RM Ready Modified X >5C HLL Head Load Latch X >6E IT In Use Terminator Plugged >3E HI Head Load or In Use to In Use Ckt X >8D F**** Remove for MFM encode, Inst M2FM X >7D AF***** Install for FM or MFM encoding Plugged >7D NF***** Install for M2FM encoding X > >*A 16-pin programmable shunt is **The SA851 offers a standard data >provided for the eight most separator as in the SA801, and an >commonly used cut track options. optional data separator which >These traces are usually shorted properly separates data and clock >as shipped from the factory. bits through the soft-sectored IBM >The traces can be opened with a standard format and address mark >knife blade or small screw driver. area. Trace FS offers the standard > separator and Trace TS offers the > ****MLC 10 only optional separator. Either may be >*****MLC 11 only selected through a shorting plug. > > ***Write current switch is plugged > to the interface. > > 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 > | | | | | | | | > Shunt F4 > | | | | | | | | > Z| HL| A| B| X| I| R| S| > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Mar 2 20:27:22 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: My last VMS question: %INIT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled In-Reply-To: <3C811FCA.7080509@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: To me this looks like what would be logged after the port is reinited. The real errors should be before this. On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > ****** ENTRY 3677., ERROR SEQUENCE 110. LOGGED ON SID 0B000006 > > ERL$LOGSTATUS ENTRY KA64A CPU FW REV# 6. CONSOLE FW REV# 4.0 > XMI NODE # 1. > > I/O SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MUC6: > > MSLG$L_CMD_REF 61F60004 > ORB$L_OWNER 00000000 > OWNER UIC [000,000] > UCB$L_CHAR 0CC44038 > DIRECTORY STRUCTURED > SINGLE DIRECTORY > "SEQUENTIAL BLOCK" ORIENTED > FILE ORIENTED > AVAILABLE > ERROR LOGGING > ALLOCATED > CAPABLE OF INPUT > CAPABLE OF OUTPUT > UCB$L_OPCNT 00000029 > 41. QIO'S THIS UNIT > UCB$W_ERRCNT 0003 > 3. ERRORS THIS UNIT > UCB$W_STS 0810 > ONLINE > SOFTWARE VALID > > CDRP$L_MEDIA 00000000 > CDRP$W_FUNC 000C > READ PHYSICAL BLOCK > CDRP$L_BCNT 00000050 > TRANSFER SIZE 80. BYTE(S) > CDRP$W_BOFF 0170 > 368. BYTE PAGE OFFSET > CDRP$L_PID 0001000D > REQUESTOR "PID" > CDRP$Q_IOSB 000001F4 > 00000000 IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED > > -- From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Mar 2 21:05:29 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems References: <20020224104408.G11770-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> <3C802A68.FA5BE481@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3C8192F9.1010608@aurora.regenstrief.org> Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the DECdatasystems label. -Gunther Doug Carman wrote: > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > >>But the DECdatasystems are a later packaging, right? If so, how late in >>the life of the 11/70 are we talking? 1908-ish? I'm wondering what >>peripherals I need to look for for it to be a historically accurate, >>catalog-perfect configuration. >> > > The 11/70 I have was originally a DECdatasystem in the double-width > corporate cabinet. It was originally purchased in 1979, and remained in > production until July of 2000. It now resides in H960 racks with a ... -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Mar 2 21:27:07 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > If tghey are Diablo 31s.... > > > > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives > > > for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand. > > > But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue > > > picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front. > > > Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be > > > obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns > > > on the drive or a glass reticule? > > The positioner does not depend on any servo patterns on the disk surface > (so it's like an RK05 -- in fact it uses the same media). The position > reference is a 'transformer' made from PCB tracks mounted on top of the > positioner mechanism. One PCB contains the 'primary' and it rotates > relative to the other which contains a pair of 'secondaries. The output > signals are pretty similar to those from the optical transducer in the > RK05, actually. > > The positioner itself is a permanent magnet DC motor (!) -- with carbon > brushes. I have no idea how they got it to work, but it does work. The > spindle motor is another permanent magnet DC motor, directly driving the > disk spindle. The spindle motor has a funny speed control where about 90% of the voltage needed to run at full speed is appled through a power resistor. A digital circuit decides if the speed is to low and shorts out the resistor. I think they got 1% speed control with that simple circuit - of course the spindle has a lot of inertia... Other funny thing is I think the power supply for the drive is the same as a Hytype I power supply. The Hytypes use the same encoder as the drives head positioner... (as did the Singer model 40 disk drive where the Diablo design presumable came from) > > The electronics is half a dozen plug-in cards in a backplane which can be > pulled up for access. It's not hard to work on, and the components are > all standard IIRC. I have (somewhere) the service manual. The PSU is > external (+/- 15V IIRC). > > > IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31? > > > > You must have an RK11-C controller... > > Or make a drive select line decoder (a couple of chips IIRC) for the > RK11-D. Those actaully existed commercially in the UK -- Plessey sold > them to use Diablo drives (and similar units) with the RK11-D or their > clone of same. > > -tony > > Peter Wallace From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Mar 2 22:34:02 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: HP IPC (Integral PC) documentation / instructions needed References: <200203021149.g22BnrN14554@codex.cis.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <005601c1c26c$a7535f40$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > Finally, anybody knows how to format a floppy on the IPC? > I do, but it won't likely help you much. The instructions for formatting ("initializing") a floppy from the manual are as follows: 1. Select the PAM window 2. Insert the utilities disk (let me guess -- you don't have one) 3. Highlight and start the "format disc program" 4. Press "change name" (F3) 5. Type in the name you want 6. Press return 7. Remove the utilities disk and insert the disk to be formatted 8. Press "start format" (F1) 9. Press "exit" (F8) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 2 22:39:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: More eBay fun References: Message-ID: <3C81A8E6.505B549C@jetnet.ab.ca> Owen Robertson wrote: > > on 3/2/02 2:15 PM, Tony Duell at ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > Actually, didn't the Apple 1 have the PCB layed out to use either a 6800 > > or a 6502 (2 40 pin DIL positions). You'd have to change the firmware too > > of course. but I thought I read that the 6502 was the lower cost option > > that everybody actaully used (for suitably small values of 'everybody') > > but a 6800 was possible too. > > I noticed on some TV show that showed the Apple I board close up, a socket > with a "6800" label next to it. Thought it was interesting, but didn't give > it much thought beyond that. > > -- > Owen Robertson Well the 6501? 6500? had to change to the 6502 because the earlier chip copied the bus and timing and pin layout of the 6800, and got into trouble over that. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Mar 2 22:40:15 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: SCSI options for PDP 11/23 References: Message-ID: <3C81A92F.DC8A0EFF@idirect.com> >Tom Leffingwell wrote: > >On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > OK, what I see that concerns me is the fact you're using a 11/03 box. > > Unless I'm mistaken the 11/03 was only Q16, which has me wondering how > > you're even running a 11/23 CPU, which should be Q18, in it (it's possible > > someone upgraded the backplane to be 18-bit). > It did have the M8186 11/23 CPU in the 11/03 chassis when I got it, not > that that means anything. I did change the memory module to a 128KW > MSV11-LK. Jerome Fine replies: As long as you are able to run the RT11XM and it recognizes that there are 248 KBytes (the last 8192 Bytes are lost to the IOPAGE in an 18-bit system, then you definitely are running with an 18-bit backplane. If by chance you had all 256 KBytes of memory, that would mean that you had a 22-bit system. The command: SHOW MEMORY (or just SH M) will provide the information you need as might the boot information. > There's an older Q-bus VAX system at the University that will probably be > taken out of service soon, and there's a chance I can grab its SCSI > controller (I'm not sure exactly what it has, but I know it has one). You should be aware that a CQD 220/TM is no longer available and that manuals are difficult to obtain. Ask on the list and we can help if that is the version of the host adapter. If possible, get your dibs in early so that you can grab it when it becomes available. > > I took a quick look and it looks like CMD made SCSI controllers that would > > work in either a Q18 or Q22 system. It also looks like Viking controllers > > only work in a Q22 system. > > As for your Fortran programs, I would think they would work on V5.x, but am > > not sure. The best people on the list to know about that would be Megan or > > Jerome. > > Is this a hobbyist system, or is it a production system? > Its mostly a hobbyist system, in that I paid for it personally, and if it > weren't for it being a hobby, I would have given up a long time ago. :) >From what I know of FORTRAN IV programs and V4.00 vs V5.00 compatibility, you are VERY unlikely to have a problem. Assume for now that you won't - which is an assumption I rarely make in any circumstances. That means that I have so rarely found a problem that for most cases it is just not an issue. Your bigger problem will be to transfer the files to a SCSI hard drive. I will volunteer to put V5.03 on a SCSI hard drive for you if no one else is available in the US. Since I am in Toronto, crossing the border could be a complication. But ANYONE else who is able to write to a SCSI hard drive on either a real PDP-11 or anyone who has a Full version of E11 can also do that for you. A SCSI hard drive is a SCSI hard drive on any system. Under E11, I can connect the same 2 GByte ST32550N drive from a real PDP-11 to a header on the SCSI cable to an Adaptec AHA2940AU PCI host adapter. I do need to "trick" the software by having a Sony SMO S501 powered up on the same SCSI ID when I first boot Windows98 and load ASPI8DOS.SYS for E11, but after I turn off the power on the Sony SMO S501, I can power on the ST32550N (the SCSI cable may NEED to be plugged in first - I always do) hard drive and E11 is very happy to use the ST2550N as an RT-11 device. > Its kind of hard to explain, but I'll try. I work for a university on a > National Science Foundation funded project that provides satellite > communication to scientists at the geographic south pole, and a few other > assorted places in the Antarctic. Normal commericial satellite > communication isn't affordable to the scientific community, so the > operation uses old satellites (ranging in launch year from 1967 to 1977) > that are no longer usable for their original purpose, such as imager > failures in the case of the older GOES satellites. We also use ATS-3, the > oldest continously operating satellite in the world. It took the first > color pictures of the earth from space in 1967. Also, being low on > station keeping fuel, which causes the orbit to drift north and south of > the equator, so that it its no longer geostationary is another reason. > That's good for us, because at geostationary orbit, you can only see down > to about 80 degrees south. With the drift, you can see the poles for > about 6 hours a day. > > In order to perform maneuvers (fire the jets) on a spin-stabilized > satellite, you have to synchronize your commanding with a reference point > (usually the sun). If you were in the 1970s and wanted to design a > reliable "portable" computing system for each launch site required around > the world, what would you use? You guessed it, a PDP-11. The software > was on an RX02 along with RT-11. > > Anyway, we built our own command equipment awhile ago with a small > microcontroller. This was intended for commanding where the timing isn't > critical, such as turning things on and off, switching sensors, etc. The > attitude of a spinning satellite precesses slowly over time, and you > correct it by firing jets in a synchronized manner, which we can't do with > our equipment. The attitude starting to be off enough to where it needs > to be corrected. Lacking the funding to develop something new, combined > with everyone assuming I wouldn't be able to revive this system, I decided > to rebuilt it on my own. (We only had a few pieces of the original system > that attached to the DMA and PIO interfaces, which didn't work, and none > of the PDP equipment). It was working pretty well until the RX02 > incident. I was hoping I could scrape up a SCSI controller from somewhere > around the university, so I could have a longer-term storage option. So > in the next couple of months, it will get used for a "production" purpose, > but then it won't be needed for quite awhile. I have never quite head your complete situation. Anything else I can help with? If anyone could provide a loan CQD 220/TM for a few months, might that help? SCSI hard drives are not the problem - the ST32550N cost only $ US 10.00 and plenty of others are also available. I can't understand how funding can be so tight that a project which uses a $ 100 million satellite can't find the support for a PDP-11 system at this point. Doe someone nearby have a BA23 box that they can provide you. That will be a problem to some extent since you should also have at least an M8189 (quad 11/23 with boot ROMs). But I would be willing to send that to you if more memory would also help. Otherwise, if 1/4 MByte of memory is sufficient, then your present system with a SCSI host adapter and hard drive will likely serve you very well. If you need any more help with RT-11, please ask here at any time. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From tarsi at binhost.com Sat Mar 2 22:42:40 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Digital Machine - Cards I Can't Identify Message-ID: <02030222424000.01415@simon> Greetings, all! I obtained a Cambridge Digital machine the other week at an auction for $25. I am going through the box to identify what is in it. Being new in the world of these sort of machines, I'm pretty clueless. I've figured out some of the cards, but the following I can't identify. Can anyone help me find out what they are and some docs or webpages about them? I have listed the card #, where it's located in the machine relative to the drives and the PSU, and any numbers, symbols, etc I have found on the card. I have also on some of them listed what they might possibly be. I have already figured out the processor card, which is an 11/73 processor (KDJ11-AA (M8192)) and the hard drive is a Fujitsu 2312K. The floppy controller is a Sigma Information Systems Floppy Controller. That and one of the cards is a DRV11-J. The memory is Chrislin Industries 512K board. The rest I'm rather clueless about. Thanks in advance, Nathan tarsi@binhost.com Card 1: Drive Side - Went to Tape Drive LSI-50 Alloy Eng C.P.D. DWG No. 100159 REV D LSI-50 S/N-342 (C)1981 USA FW100 159:37 REV 2.0 Card 2: Drive Side - 50 pin dual connectors Emulex Corp (C)1982 ASSY TU0210401 Rev E T/A Tc0210201-FSJ P.O.1446 3-25-87 Card 4 Right (Drive Side, Front Side) digital corp [CLKOVFL + STIOUT 40 pin connector (written) 76453 328D EP057 REV J 8-setting DIP Wire from the CLKOVFL to Card 4 Left Card 4 Left (Drive Side, PSU Side) Black Block1 (Smaller) DC/DC Converter DTI5060-D Block 2 (Larger) DTS710-DI-A DataTranslation EP077A 20-pin connectors RTC In from Card 4 Right (there was a wire connecting) Data Acquisition Module S/N 85874-345 EP073 REVJ (written) 85874-34J Card 6 - Drive Side - Almost same as Card 2 Emulex Corp, Santa Ana, CA ASSY SU0210401 REV G S/N 3332 on the biggest chip: TODASSY SC0210201-CXL S/N 73815 SUB ASSY 3332P REV G W/BOOT Ditronics 0284 WareExpo 5/85 Opposite side PWB SU0210701 REV B Card 7 Right (Drive Side, Front Side) - Terminal Card? (C)1982 Technical Magic Inc BOOT-HALT Jumper S/N 1018 12K BAUD Jumpers set 0-x,2-A,4-A,6-A 9-pin connectors The Tape Drive: Computer Peripherals Inc. TAPE Products Division Equip Ident NO BY5A3-B Series Code 08 P/N 77014021 S/N 1287 50W That's it! :) Thank you so much for anyone who can help! -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 2 23:04:03 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020302205529.007eb510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > Thanks for posting these. I know that I just asked for the jumper > settings but I think I'm going to need more. I want to replace some Shugart > 800s in my Intel MDS with the Shugarts 851s and I've been studying the > interface, wiring and S 800 setup and Intel has cobbled up a truely > bizzarre setup and I think I'm going to need the whole OEM setup manual for > the 851 so that I can find out where to make some of the circuit > modifications. A couple of people have already promised to get me a copy. > Thanks. Joe, in a `normal' Shugart drive installation, a switch from SA-800/1 to the SA-850/1 is almost a dropin replacement. If it is more than that, Intel must have engaged in some `hanky-panky' with their circuitry. Good luck! - don From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 2 23:36:29 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Digital Machine - Cards I Can't Identify References: <02030222424000.01415@simon> Message-ID: <3C81B65D.F6D63600@internet1.net> I think this card is a pertec tape controller for a big 9-track tape drive. I think I had one of these in fact, but I gave it away with the drive. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tarsi wrote: > Card 2: Drive Side - 50 pin dual connectors > Emulex Corp (C)1982 > ASSY TU0210401 Rev E > T/A Tc0210201-FSJ P.O.1446 3-25-87 From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 3 00:01:15 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Digital Machine - Cards I Can't Identify In-Reply-To: <02030222424000.01415@simon> Message-ID: <20020302234231.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Tarsi wrote: > Card 2: Drive Side - 50 pin dual connectors > Emulex Corp (C)1982 > ASSY TU0210401 Rev E > T/A Tc0210201-FSJ P.O.1446 3-25-87 An Emulex TC02? I have a Emulex board TU0110401-01 Rev H, and it came with a piece of paper describing it as a TC01/PE. Megan's wonderful bible^H^H^H^H^HModule List says: TC02 Q Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller. Emulates TS11. Early revisions incompatible with VMS. TC02 Q Emulex Pertec-interface tape drive controller. Emulates TS11. Early revisions incompatible with VMS. Supports 1-4 Cipher F880, CDC 92181, Kennedy 6809, and Pertec F1000. The "50 pin dual connectors" are just right for formatted Pertec interface. > Card 6 - Drive Side - Almost same as Card 2 > Emulex Corp, Santa Ana, CA > ASSY SU0210401 REV G S/N 3332 > on the biggest chip: > TODASSY SC0210201-CXL > S/N 73815 > SUB ASSY 3332P REV G > W/BOOT > Ditronics 0284 > WareExpo 5/85 > Opposite side > PWB SU0210701 REV B Using the same pattern as above, an Emulex SC02/CXL? The closest match from the Module List says: SC02/C Q Emulex SMD disk controller. Emulates Digital RK611/RK06/RK07. 22-bit. Supports Fujitsu 2322. Includes BDV11-compatible line-time clock. The rest sounds like a bunch of custom stuff which may or may not be useful. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vance at ikickass.org Sun Mar 3 00:35:01 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Need paper tape encoding format In-Reply-To: <200203021717.JAA11210@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Lots of unix (including many BSD/Linux) systems have a program called ppt > > > (usually in /usr/bin/games or similar) which takes an ASCII string and > > > outputs a facsimile of paper tape. > > > > Thanks for that, I just found it on this Linux box. "Man ppt" also > > listed bcd which does the same for punched cards. > > stockholm:/home/spectre/% man ppt > There is not an entry for ppt. > > *sniff* Guess not AIX -- I'll have to look on my NetBSD system. Why not just download BSDgames sources and compile for AIX? Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sun Mar 3 00:42:43 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Far-Out Languages (was: Write only programming) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > [..] I'd rather write machine code! > > That, surely, applies to BASIC and COBOL as well... Completely Overcomplicated Bullshit-Oriented Language. Peace... Sridhar From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 3 01:09:19 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <3C8192F9.1010608@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the > DECdatasystems label. Right. That would fit in with my theory that when certain products or models were getting old, DEC rehashed them as DECdatasystems instead of just EOLing them. Give 'em a new name, maybe a slightly different look, and (probably) sell them for less. This could have been done to compete with the other guys, like DG, who were selling less expensive computers. There were 11/40 DECdatasystems as well. Look at the rack header panels at you-know-where: http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/1140.html -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 3 01:13:29 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? Message-ID: <20020303011050.Q28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> What is the 'official' name of the thing we call 'rack-top panel', 'rack header panel', 'maroon/red panel', 'logo panel', 'marquee', etc.? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 3 01:32:14 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Data abstraction Message-ID: <20020303073333.AMM8920.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > Consider three hypothetical forms of source code: > > A: MOV AH, 2 > MOV DL, 41h > INT 21h > > B: MOV AH, 2 ; character display function > MOV DL, 'B' > INT 21h ; DOS API > > C: MOV AH, DISPLAY > MOV DL, OURCHAR > INT DOSSERVICES > > I prefer B, but there were a few cases where I felt that he was tending > towards C. (and plenty of times when I slip into writing A) Yeah, the book is pretty much type 'C' code. > Abstraction is very useful and necessary for some types of portability. > But I don't like to have to go thorough a separate .H file to find out > what the code is that is being abstracted. Yeah, it's a hassle, but I think it's worth it to get easily-portable code. Only a few lines need to be changed to move the code to another machine. All in all I would recommend this book. Plus you, Fred Cisin, got double kudos ;>) Glen 0/0 From hans at Huebner.ORG Sun Mar 3 04:06:12 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 Message-ID: <20020303105223.F53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Hi, this weekend, we have been unsuccessful trying to get one of the ancient Unix versions (V6 or V7) to run on a PDP-11/34. The plan is to have an ancient PDP-11 on the VCFe in Munich running a proper version of Unix. THe machine has two RK05 drives, RX01 floppy and a TS03 tape drive. Our first problem is that we have been unable to find or make up a TS03 bootstrap. We considered using RT-11 to transfer disk images to RK05 drives, but we could not figure out how to get the image straight to the disk without having to store it in an intermediate file and writing a RT-11 program to access the disk sector-by-sector. We have a lot of hardware at our disposal, so we took a Emulex TC12 Pertec tape controller from a 11/44 (the 11/44 would also be nice as demonstration CPU, but it has a SMD disk controller for which we have no drives). Not having any documentation on the TC12 we just put it into the 11/34, but it did not work (bus error LED lit). So we're kind of stuck. Any ideas, hints or pointers (especially to a TC12 print set) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Mar 3 05:06:42 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:00 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <20020303105223.F53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: <200203031106.g23B6gD04341@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 3 Mar, Hans H?bner wrote: > (the 11/44 would also be nice as demonstration > CPU, but it has a SMD disk controller for which we have no drives). This problem can be solved. I can trade a 350MB 5,25" SMD disk to you. When the Symbolics are salvaged today, I may be able to gat a Fujitsu eagle for you... Stay tuned. :-) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From hans at Huebner.ORG Sun Mar 3 06:20:11 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <200203031106.g23B6gD04341@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 3 Mar, Hans H?bner wrote: > > (the 11/44 would also be nice as demonstration > > CPU, but it has a SMD disk controller for which we have no drives). > This problem can be solved. I can trade a 350MB 5,25" SMD disk to you. This is cool and we'll gladly take the disk if everything else fails. The real goal of course is to have a PDP-11 in an 1970ies configuration, way before SMD was invented. > When the Symbolics are salvaged today, I may be able to gat a Fujitsu > eagle for you... Stay tuned. :-) Yikes! That one will look cool on one of our QBUS VAXen and provide for the proper noise level. :) -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1648.monmouth.com Sun Mar 3 06:23:23 2002 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1648.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Mar 3, 2002 01:09:19 am" Message-ID: <200203031223.g23CNNA09513@bg-tc-ppp1648.monmouth.com> > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the > > DECdatasystems label. > > Right. That would fit in with my theory that when certain products or > models were getting old, DEC rehashed them as DECdatasystems instead of > just EOLing them. Give 'em a new name, maybe a slightly different look, > and (probably) sell them for less. This could have been done to compete > with the other guys, like DG, who were selling less expensive computers. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com I don't think so... IIRC the DECdatasystems usually were packaged systems with OS, tape, printer and disk... basically computer room in a truck. They were usually for timeshare use (RSTS/E) or CTS-xxx. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 3 06:43:15 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 References: <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: <01e501c1c2b1$01ce9400$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans H?bner" To: Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > On 3 Mar, Hans H?bner wrote: > > > > (the 11/44 would also be nice as demonstration > > > CPU, but it has a SMD disk controller for which we have no drives). > > > This problem can be solved. I can trade a 350MB 5,25" SMD disk to you. > > This is cool and we'll gladly take the disk if everything else fails. The > real goal of course is to have a PDP-11 in an 1970ies configuration, way > before SMD was invented. > > > When the Symbolics are salvaged today, I may be able to gat a Fujitsu > > eagle for you... Stay tuned. :-) > > Yikes! That one will look cool on one of our QBUS VAXen and provide for the > proper noise level. :) There's nothing quite like the sound of an RA81 spooling up. It's almost gas turbine.... Cheers Geoff in Oz From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 3 10:23:34 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <20020303105223.F53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: The 11/34 system in Hans Franke's collection has several bootable Unix RK05 packs - it ran at one time when the units were in my possesion. Just an FYI; and now I have become unpopular w/Hans. Varry sorry Saar... Cheers John From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 3 10:31:49 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: Message-ID: <001501c1c2d0$eb4c0b20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I think what's of concern to Joe, Don, is that Intel apparently used some of the "radial" options that require the drive be jumpered specifically for those options. Nearly all drive makers supported those options, since they allowed the system to do such things such as overlap seeks, test the RDY signal on two drives separately, and the like. In the interest of improving system performance, most "major" system vendors used these features, though they were seldom used in the low-end, such as the S-100 market because they caused a huge support burden. The low-end controller/system vendors tended to recommend configurations compatible with the factory default settings provided with the most common drive, the SA800. With controllers like what Joe's using, it's unlikely the thing will work properly with an SA-800 drive with the default settings. The use of these options is certainly not "cobbled up" as the drive vendors provided an extensive repertoire of thoroughly documented options for these drives. In the case of the Shugart drives, i.e. SA-80x and SA-85x, the jumpers for corresponding options had the same designations, IIRC, though the circuitry was not always the same. If the controller manual is available, it may specify a set of jumpers for the SA-80x, which may, ultimately, work OK with the SA-85x. However, I'd want to ensure that the Intel controller has the firmware/software support for two-sided drives. It's quite possible that it does not. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > > > Thanks for posting these. I know that I just asked for the jumper > > settings but I think I'm going to need more. I want to replace some Shugart > > 800s in my Intel MDS with the Shugarts 851s and I've been studying the > > interface, wiring and S 800 setup and Intel has cobbled up a truely > > bizzarre setup and I think I'm going to need the whole OEM setup manual for > > the 851 so that I can find out where to make some of the circuit > > modifications. A couple of people have already promised to get me a copy. > > Thanks. > > Joe, in a `normal' Shugart drive installation, a switch from SA-800/1 to > the SA-850/1 is almost a dropin replacement. If it is more than that, > Intel must have engaged in some `hanky-panky' with their circuitry. > > Good luck! > - don > > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Mar 3 11:08:11 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <01e501c1c2b1$01ce9400$0300a8c0@geoff>; from geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 13:43:15 CET References: <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> <01e501c1c2b1$01ce9400$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <20020303180811.A230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.03.03 13:43 Geoff Roberts wrote: > There's nothing quite like the sound of an RA81 spooling up. > It's almost gas turbine.... I can imagine... When I got my first SMD disk, a 9" NEC D2363, I layed it on my BA123. machine + disk = 100kg. When I untared the OS, the whole shebang started to move, due to the backstroke of the moving disk heads. I was very amused. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From allain at panix.com Sun Mar 3 11:14:27 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems References: <200203031223.g23CNNA09513@bg-tc-ppp1648.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <006201c1c2d6$e02fbf60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > IIRC the DECdatasystems usually were packaged systems > with OS, tape, printer and disk... basically computer room > in a truck. The little 11/23 I just picked up ( under DECdatasystems badge ) has _extra_ sealing against dust in and noise out, so would be well suited for a quiet laboratory somewhere. The power switch is slaved to power out cords, also enhancing the turnkey simplicity of the whole system. John A. From classiccmp at dobyns.com Sun Mar 3 11:37:15 2002 From: classiccmp at dobyns.com (Barry A. Dobyns) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems References: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c1c2da$0f872a20$a103fea9@Moltres> ... > > Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the > > DECdatasystems label. ... > There were 11/40 DECdatasystems as well. Look at the rack header panels ... I've got an 11/70 in DECdatasystems dress - very pretty. -barry --- Barry Dobyns, barry@dobyns.com, http://www.dobyns.com/barry From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Mar 3 11:42:26 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org>; from hans@Huebner.ORG on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 13:20:11 CET References: <200203031106.g23B6gD04341@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: <20020303184226.C230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.03.03 13:20 Hans H?bner wrote: > > This problem can be solved. I can trade a 350MB 5,25" SMD disk to > > you. > This is cool and we'll gladly take the disk if everything else fails. > The real goal of course is to have a PDP-11 in an 1970ies configuration, > way before SMD was invented. I can understand this very well. 11/34 = 1975. What DEC disk systems where current in that time? Massbus? RL01/02? Hmm. You may ask David for his d|i|g|i|t|a|l washing machine. Once he told me that he has a big disk drive from DEC. RK07? RP07? ??? Perhaps he still has it. > > When the Symbolics are salvaged today, I may be able to gat a > > Fujitsu eagle for you... Stay tuned. :-) > Yikes! That one will look cool on one of our QBUS VAXen and provide > for the proper noise level. :) I can bring my two 9" NECs. Stereo! The Eagle is still in Davids hands, located in Ludwigshafen. You can have it. BTW: We needed three people to put the big Symbolics into Stefans trunk. Than he filled the last gap with an Apollo Domain... The color monitor for his Symbolics is in my trunk, because it and the machine where to big for Stefans car. Unfortunately all symbolics consoles are borken. One 3640 was left by Manuel, because the PSU is broken. We will salvage the boards, including a tape controller. A tape that should fit to this controller is in my attic. So look out for Genera tape images and installation instructions... :-))) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 3 11:53:03 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 References: <20020303131808.K53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> <01e501c1c2b1$01ce9400$0300a8c0@geoff> <20020303180811.A230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C8262FF.B9FED954@jetnet.ab.ca> Jochen Kunz wrote: > When I got my first SMD disk, a 9" NEC D2363, I layed it on my BA123. > machine + disk = 100kg. > When I untared the OS, the whole shebang started to move, due to the > backstroke of the moving disk heads. I was very amused. :-) > -- The Good Old Days .... when you gave the HD's a their little morning exercise.:) That is disks are so flaky today... the never had their walk. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 3 12:33:30 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: OT: Netscape data files References: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> <00ad01c1c2da$0f872a20$a103fea9@Moltres> Message-ID: <001901c1c2e1$ed891a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Though I don't use it myself, a friend, subject to the whims of the management of QWEST, has been forced into using their somewhat customized Netscape version. His system recently experienced a crash of some sort, resulting in its becoming operational, though impaired by the fact the SCANDISK utility reduced a number of directories from what they formerly were to the infamous DIR000n where n is some number between 0 and 1FE or some such. The files seem, apparently, to be in place, though the structure is lost. He wants me to help him find his Netscape data files so he can recover his address book and most recent emails from when he was using QWEST, which he doesn't any longer. Do any of you guys use Nestcape under Windows and know it well enough to know which files contain these items? Internet Explorer knows how to import this data from Netscape, but doesn't know how to search for the files. If I knew the file names, I'd have no trouble, methinks. Any "spiritual guidance" with respect to this problem would be appreciated. thanks, Dick From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 3 12:47:06 2002 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: European micro's Message-ID: <20020303184754.KTNM21875.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> It looks like I'll be making a trip to Europe in late May or June. The flight is to Amsterdam. Are there any places of interest to visit with regards to vintage computers, swap meets, or collectors with surplus wishing a small trade (fit in carry on)? From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Mar 3 13:10:21 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board Message-ID: <3C82751D.F5618799@ccp.com> Trying to figure out what this one is: I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A I'm wondeing if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 3 13:19:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?) In-Reply-To: from "Peter C. Wallace" at Mar 2, 2 07:27:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1248 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020303/8e1d10fc/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 3 13:19:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, John Lawson wrote: > The 11/34 system in Hans Franke's collection has several bootable Unix > RK05 packs - it ran at one time when the units were in my possesion. This is probably a good bet for getting a PDP 11/34 running Unix at VCFe in case Hans Huebner and crew are unable to get their's up and running. Unfortunately, it'll probably take Hans a week or two to catch up with CC messages and see this thread as he just left back for home this evening. > Just an FYI; and now I have become unpopular w/Hans. > > Varry sorry Saar... As Hans always tells me, "You are a complete asshole!" :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 3 13:21:29 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: <20020303184226.C230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > BTW: We needed three people to put the big Symbolics into Stefans trunk. How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? I know it couldn't have been a 3600, and not even a 3620. What model of Symbolics was this? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 3 13:24:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 2, 2 11:06:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 775 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020303/414b2365/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 3 13:27:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board In-Reply-To: <3C82751D.F5618799@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Trying to figure out what this one is: > > I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A Are you sure it's for the //e? The only memory boards that I know Apple made were for the //gs (if you don't count the 16K "Language Card" and the expanded 80 column text card). > I'm wondeing if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of > software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? It's most likely plug and play, or else the drivers are built in to ProDOS or GS/OS to access it. Or the "drivers" are on the firmware. I have a 1 megabyte AE Ramfactor in my //e that can be programmed in a very simple way. The memory is basically accessed serially through a single memory location (or port if you will). There are three registers where you program the address location you want to access, and then you read the port to read the byte at that location or write to the port to write a byte to that location. In either case, the address register is automatically incremented. A snap to program. I was able to record 5 minutes of reasonable quality (for the Apple ][ :) digitized sound into it. I was able to get the whole of Led Zeppelin's "The Song Remains The Same" recorded on it :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wilby98 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 3 13:28:55 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: European micro's In-Reply-To: <20020303184754.KTNM21875.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there>; from kenziem@sympatico.ca on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:47:06PM -0500 References: <20020303184754.KTNM21875.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <20020303202855.A9613@xs4all.nl> I live in Amsterdam. Here is a link to a web page of a Computer Museum in Amsterdam. I believe it is by appointment only. I was not able to get through to the person running it to make an appointment. Perhaps you would have better luck. http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/ On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:47:06PM -0500, Mike wrote: > > It looks like I'll be making a trip to Europe in late May or June. The > flight is to Amsterdam. Are there any places of interest to visit with > regards to vintage computers, swap meets, or collectors with surplus > wishing a small trade (fit in carry on)? > > > -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 3 13:29:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've got one that came with my Nicolet 1080 machine. I also have an RK05f > > which is the DEC OEM version. > > Eh? The RK05f is the fixed-cartridge version of the DEC RK05 (that's to > say one where the cartridge is only replaced by an engineer). It's Duh, sorry. I meant to say RK05. > logically similar to a Diablo 31, but electronically it's very different. > And the interface is also similar but not identical. Hmm, I thought they were rebadged Diablo 31's. Wrong again. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 3 13:29:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Digital Machine - Cards I Can't Identify In-Reply-To: <02030222424000.01415@simon> from "Tarsi" at Mar 2, 2 10:42:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1517 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020303/cd626844/attachment.ksh From djenner at earthlink.net Sun Mar 3 13:31:05 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: OT: Netscape data files References: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> <00ad01c1c2da$0f872a20$a103fea9@Moltres> <001901c1c2e1$ed891a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C8279F9.2D1E7776@earthlink.net> If it's Netscape V4.7, or derived from that version, the directory tree looks like this: Program Files (or whatever) Netscape Communicator (This folder and subfolders have all the programs and their associated files.) Users abook.nab (this file contains the addressbook) Mail folder-name (this file contains the text of messages in the folder) folder-name.smn (this file is apparently an index of the messages) ... If a folder contains folders, then the structure is, at this level: folder-name.sbd (this folder contains what the Mail folder does above) folder-name (this file contains the text of messages in the folder) folder-name.smn (this file is apparently an index of the messages) ... and so forth, recursively, until all subfolders are enumerated. It is possible to reconstruct all this, since I've done it when merging mail from several different machines. If it's Netscape V6, all the data are in Documents and Settings for the user, and it gets much more complex because you can have multiple ISP accounts for a given user. Dave Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Though I don't use it myself, a friend, subject to the whims of the management > of QWEST, has been forced into using their somewhat customized Netscape > version. His system recently experienced a crash of some sort, resulting in > its becoming operational, though impaired by the fact the SCANDISK utility > reduced a number of directories from what they formerly were to the infamous > DIR000n where n is some number between 0 and 1FE or some such. The files > seem, apparently, to be in place, though the structure is lost. He wants me > to help him find his Netscape data files so he can recover his address book > and most recent emails from when he was using QWEST, which he doesn't any > longer. > > Do any of you guys use Nestcape under Windows and know it well enough to know > which files contain these items? Internet Explorer knows how to import this > data from Netscape, but doesn't know how to search for the files. If I knew > the file names, I'd have no trouble, methinks. > > Any "spiritual guidance" with respect to this problem would be appreciated. > > thanks, > > Dick -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Mar 3 14:06:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: OT: Netscape data files In-Reply-To: <001901c1c2e1$ed891a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Do any of you guys use Nestcape under Windows and know it well enough to know > which files contain these items? Internet Explorer knows how to import this > data from Netscape, but doesn't know how to search for the files. If I knew > the file names, I'd have no trouble, methinks. > > Any "spiritual guidance" with respect to this problem would be appreciated. I'm almost embarrassed to be able to answer :^) C:\ Program Files Netscape Users or "default" Good Luck. Doc From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 3 15:30:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Louis Schulman wrote: > Yes, this is for the //e. It is the 1 meg slinky memory board. ProDos > will automatically recognize it as a 1 meg ram disk in whatever slot it > is in. Appleworks will also use it automatically, as will a few other > programs. Well then it may well be a Ramfactor, or perhaps a RamWorks. > It is great for file transfers, since there is no delay waiting for a > physical drive. Very useful. Yep, I used to use mine to leach warez off the local BBS's and then unshrink them to disk. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 3 17:14:50 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <001501c1c2d0$eb4c0b20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I think what's of concern to Joe, Don, is that Intel apparently used some of > the "radial" options that require the drive be jumpered specifically for those > options. Nearly all drive makers supported those options, since they allowed > the system to do such things such as overlap seeks, test the RDY signal on two > drives separately, and the like. In the interest of improving system > performance, most "major" system vendors used these features, though they were > seldom used in the low-end, such as the S-100 market because they caused a > huge support burden. The low-end controller/system vendors tended to > recommend configurations compatible with the factory default settings provided > with the most common drive, the SA800. With controllers like what Joe's > using, it's unlikely the thing will work properly with an SA-800 drive with > the default settings. The use of these options is certainly not "cobbled up" > as the drive vendors provided an extensive repertoire of thoroughly documented > options for these drives. > > In the case of the Shugart drives, i.e. SA-80x and SA-85x, the jumpers for > corresponding options had the same designations, IIRC, though the circuitry > was not always the same. If the controller manual is available, it may > specify a set of jumpers for the SA-80x, which may, ultimately, work OK with > the SA-85x. However, I'd want to ensure that the Intel controller has the > firmware/software support for two-sided drives. It's quite possible that it > does not. > > Dick Sounds reasonable. - don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > > > > > Thanks for posting these. I know that I just asked for the jumper > > > settings but I think I'm going to need more. I want to replace some > Shugart > > > 800s in my Intel MDS with the Shugarts 851s and I've been studying the > > > interface, wiring and S 800 setup and Intel has cobbled up a truely > > > bizzarre setup and I think I'm going to need the whole OEM setup manual > for > > > the 851 so that I can find out where to make some of the circuit > > > modifications. A couple of people have already promised to get me a copy. > > > Thanks. > > > > Joe, in a `normal' Shugart drive installation, a switch from SA-800/1 to > > the SA-850/1 is almost a dropin replacement. If it is more than that, > > Intel must have engaged in some `hanky-panky' with their circuitry. > > > > Good luck! > > - don > > > > > > > > From jss at subatomix.com Sun Mar 3 17:49:33 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <200203031223.g23CNNA09513@bg-tc-ppp1648.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20020303174835.O29958-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Bill Pechter wrote: > > my theory that when certain products or models were getting old, DEC > > rehashed them as DECdatasystems instead of just EOLing them. > > I don't think so... IIRC the DECdatasystems usually were packaged > systems with OS, tape, printer and disk... basically computer room in a > truck. That also makes sense. Thanks for setting me straight. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Mar 3 19:44:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board In-Reply-To: <3C82751D.F5618799@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Trying to figure out what this one is: > > I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A > > I'm wondeing if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of > software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? Maybe an 80 column card with memory expansion? Someone here has to know what it is... -Toth From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Mar 3 21:24:19 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: Message-ID: <3C82E8E3.366040FA@ccp.com> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > Trying to figure out what this one is: > > > > I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > > total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > > board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A > > > > I'm wondeing if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of > > software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? > > Maybe an 80 column card with memory expansion? > > Someone here has to know what it is... > > -Toth Got one of those already . . . it is a small board with about 5 small IC's on it. This is a full size board. Gary HIldebrand From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 3 21:27:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: <3C82E8E3.366040FA@ccp.com> Message-ID: <001e01c1c32c$881f1400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've never seen an Apple IIe without the 80-column capability. Is there such a thing? I routinely take-apart and scrap the things in order to get the PSU. Perhaps I should look next time. I've got one or two from which I'll extract the PSU once the snow melts off them. I could look to see if I see anything like that. Ordinarily I don't even look for any extras. I just remove the PSU and chuck the rest. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:24 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIe memory board > Tothwolf wrote: > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > > > Trying to figure out what this one is: > > > > > > I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > > > total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > > > board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A > > > > > > I'm wondering if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of > > > software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? > > > > Maybe an 80 column card with memory expansion? > > > > Someone here has to know what it is... > > > > -Toth > > Got one of those already . . . it is a small board with about 5 small > IC's on it. This is a full size board. > > Gary HIldebrand > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Mar 3 21:29:52 2002 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill clausssen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Grid LT 1755 bat indicator In-Reply-To: <3C810E01.4131.3747CAA1@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303212033.009f4b10@mail.kcinter.net> At 05:38 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote: > I've scoured the net, even joined the URGrid mail-list, read the Tandy specs >closely, but can't find any info as to what the flashing red battery >indicator >means on my Grid 1755. Even the Grid proponents pass on it. It works but >the battery had gone belly-up. I bought a "new" battery and for a while the >former orange changed to green but later on changed to the flashing red. It >accepts minimal charge but not enough to power the HD when off charge and >displays the low-power steady red indicator before dying. If it was simply >indicating a dead battery the old one wouldn't display a steady orange. Could >it be lack of enough amperage from my adaptor to be able to charge ? > I submit myself to the collective knowledge of the list. > >Lawrence >Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net > >Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad >he goes to his death and in death is made wise. >Robert Graves Hello Robert, "...can't find any info as to what the flashing red battery indicator means on my Grid 1755." The batt indicator and the cmputer's beeper tell you the condition of the battery in the following 5 ways: The indicator lights orange during charging The indicator lights green when the battery is fully charged and the ac is supplying power. The indicator does not light if you run the computer on a fully charged battery and the AC adapter is not connected. The indicator lights orange and blinks if you remove the battery from the computer if AC power is being used or if the battery is damaged. The indicator lights red and a continuous tone sounds when battery power drops below the power level needed for normal operation. NOTE: the indicator might light red during disk operations. If the indicator turns off when the disk drive turns off, the battery still has plenty of power. When the batt indicator lights red, a tone sounds until the computer automatically turns off. you have about 2 minutes to save your data to the hard disk or a diskette. To turn off the tone, press FN+F5. This is from the owners manual for the grid 1755. Bill From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Mar 3 21:47:43 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 Message-ID: I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen. It is marked FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an "A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before... Ideas? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From louiss at gate.net Sun Mar 3 22:08:12 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:27:20 +0000 (UTC), Sellam Ismail wrote: #On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: # #> Trying to figure out what this one is: #> #> I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 #> total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the #> board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A # #Are you sure it's for the //e? The only memory boards that I know Apple #made were for the //gs (if you don't count the 16K "Language Card" and the #expanded 80 column text card). Yes, this is for the //e. It is the 1 meg slinky memory board. ProDos will automatically recognize it as a 1 meg ram disk in whatever slot it is in. Appleworks will also use it automatically, as will a few other programs. It is great for file transfers, since there is no delay waiting for a physical drive. Very useful. You guys made me pull the top off my //e to check the card. I just couldn't take it any more. Louis From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 3 22:30:40 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Mikrokolor Color Graphics Interface Message-ID: <3C82F870.582FDD54@rain.org> This weekend, I was given MikroKolor Color Graphics Interface by the person who designed the hardware, Paul Andresen. The basic operation was to interface a TMS9918A VDP chip to a TRS-80, Apple II, and S-100, and the output was NTSC color composite video. A color modulator was required to interface it to a TV. A two part article was written for 80 Micro in 1982 by the person who wrote the software, James W. Cole. They took out full page ads under the name of "Andresen's Electronics Research & Development, Inc." >From their ad: "The MIKROKOLOR Color Graphics interface is designed to provide the new TRS-80 Model 100 portable computer with high resolution color graphics and text capability, utililizing a standard color television or color monitor. The MIKROKOLOR provides 256 x 192 graphics, with 15 colors plus transparent. Its 3 dimensional Sprite plances provide for simultaneous display of all levels. I has four modes of operation available: 1. Text mode: Provides 24 lines of 40 characters each using a 6 x 8 dot matrix, and provides 256 user devinable characters. 2. Multicolor mode: Provides 64 x 48 color graphics. 3. Graphics 1 mode: Provides 256 x 192 color graphics, 24 lines of 32 characters each, utilizing an 8 x 8 dot matrix with 2 colors per character. 4 Graphics 2 mode: Provides the same as Graphics 1 mode except allows 16 colors per character." I'm curious if anyone else on the list has one, and has anyone used the unit? It seems like it is a pretty neat unit! From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 3 22:32:10 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: <3C82E8E3.366040FA@ccp.com> <001e01c1c32c$881f1400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C82F8CA.E67242EA@internet1.net> What do you use the PSU for? Before you start chucking things, please look at the installed cards. I'd love to get a scsi card for mine. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I've never seen an Apple IIe without the 80-column capability. Is there such > a thing? I routinely take-apart and scrap the things in order to get the PSU. > Perhaps I should look next time. I've got one or two from which I'll extract > the PSU once the snow melts off them. I could look to see if I see anything > like that. Ordinarily I don't even look for any extras. I just remove the > PSU and chuck the rest. > > Dick From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 3 22:32:16 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: Message-ID: <002401c1c335$90cfb920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got an add-on memory board for the Apple ///, but that certainly doesn't count where the IIe is concerned. That one used one row of normal 4116's and two rows of the wierd 18-pin parts with two 4116 dice on the same substrate, bearing an Apple logo, BTW. The one I've got, is modified in terms of the connectors, as I used it in another application, way back when, and the connectors didn't suit me. It does count as another Apple memory board, though. Could someone address that business with the 80-column aspect? I've had several of these around and never yet had one that didn't have the key that switched from 40 to 80-column mode. Was there an earlier version that required this as an add-on? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic computing mailing list" Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIe memory board > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > Trying to figure out what this one is: > > > > I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > > total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > > board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A > > Are you sure it's for the //e? The only memory boards that I know Apple > made were for the //gs (if you don't count the 16K "Language Card" and the > expanded 80 column text card). > > > I'm wondeing if I can just plug and play, or if there is some sort of > > software driver to access this memory? any web pages on it??? > > It's most likely plug and play, or else the drivers are built in to ProDOS > or GS/OS to access it. Or the "drivers" are on the firmware. > > I have a 1 megabyte AE Ramfactor in my //e that can be programmed in a > very simple way. The memory is basically accessed serially through a > single memory location (or port if you will). There are three registers > where you program the address location you want to access, and then you > read the port to read the byte at that location or write to the port to > write a byte to that location. In either case, the address register is > automatically incremented. A snap to program. > > I was able to record 5 minutes of reasonable quality (for the Apple ][ :) > digitized sound into it. I was able to get the whole of Led Zeppelin's > "The Song Remains The Same" recorded on it :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 3 22:59:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: <3C82E8E3.366040FA@ccp.com> <001e01c1c32c$881f1400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C82F8CA.E67242EA@internet1.net> Message-ID: <003201c1c339$614a5c60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah ... I have to remove the top to get at the PSU, so I look at the cards. The one I took apart today has a short 64K card, from some 3rd party vendor, that I've never seen before. A typical IIe costs on the order of $5-10 and I've yet to see any interesting cards. I'd take an 8" FDC or a SCSI board myself, BTW, just to say I have one. I've got 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" drives for these puppies, though I've yet to try the 3-1/2" types on a IIe. These things are a lot better-built than the ][+, but I guess that's progress. I do save the socketed standard parts and LSI's, though I don't save the custom parts or keyboard, generally. I may save a few keyboards, though, since I'm currenty working an SBC that could conceivably benefit from one. The PSU's are very adequate for a number of applications since they supply +12, +5, -5 and -12. Being completely enclosed, they're handy for powering protypes and demo equipment. It's not unusual to use a dozen or two of them to power a dozen or two specific functions. I'm in the "proof-of-concept" business, having prepared front-end prototypes for over 20 years. It's not unusual to use 20 independent microcontrollers to demonstrate a concept implemented in software, that later ends up in a single board, or even a single ASIC. Having them on lots of separate boards makes it easy to partition the tasks and align the processing bandwidth with the conceptual boundaries. As the various tasks move from board to board over the evolution of a project, performance is often improved or reduced, and that gives information not otherwise obtainable in a short-cycle development effort. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIe memory board > What do you use the PSU for? Before you start chucking things, please > look at the installed cards. I'd love to get a scsi card for mine. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I've never seen an Apple IIe without the 80-column capability. Is there such > > a thing? I routinely take-apart and scrap the things in order to get the PSU. > > Perhaps I should look next time. I've got one or two from which I'll extract > > the PSU once the snow melts off them. I could look to see if I see anything > > like that. Ordinarily I don't even look for any extras. I just remove the > > PSU and chuck the rest. > > > > Dick > > From Jdshea007 at aol.com Sun Mar 3 23:47:13 2002 From: Jdshea007 at aol.com (Jdshea007@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Looking for a 14 pin DIN cable Message-ID: <119.d851786.29b46461@aol.com> G'day I'm not sure if i can help or not as i'm looking for a 14 pin ccq cable, and came across your site.And noticed your after a cable that might be found in atari st computer.It just so happens i have a few atari st's for sale about($80 Australian)if your interested you can buy one (the whole computer) just let me know and we might be able to work something out ,Unless you have all ready found a cable then this has most likely been a good typing exercise . Regards Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/0812cd2a/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Mar 3 23:59:32 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Looking for a 14 pin DIN cable In-Reply-To: Re: Looking for a 14 pin DIN cable (Jdshea007@aol.com) References: <119.d851786.29b46461@aol.com> Message-ID: <15491.3396.154733.931654@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 4, Jdshea007@aol.com wrote: > G'day I'm not sure if i can help or not as i'm looking for a 14 pin ccq > cable, and came across your site.And noticed your after a cable that might be > found in atari st computer.It just so happens i have a few atari st's for > sale about($80 Australian)if your interested you can buy one (the whole > computer) just let me know and we might be able to work something out ,Unless > you have all ready found a cable then this has most likely been a good typing > exercise . Regards Jason "...now, off to work on that grammar and punctuation..." -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Mon Mar 4 00:16:19 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple Questions Message-ID: Is the //c+ faster than the //e? How much faster is the //gs than the //c+? Why didn't they release the //e+? Peace... Sridhar From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Mar 4 00:28:09 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Grid LT 1755 bat indicator In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303212033.009f4b10@mail.kcinter.net> References: <3C810E01.4131.3747CAA1@localhost> Message-ID: <3C82BF99.6726.3DE5C55C@localhost> Yeah that's the same as on the Tandy site. However there is no indication of what a flashing red means. It's not the Bios battery since the computer is keeping the date correctly. About the only thing I can think of is insufficient power to charge the battery. Thanks. Lawrence > At 05:38 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote: > > I've scoured the net, even joined the URGrid mail-list, read the Tandy specs > >closely, but can't find any info as to what the flashing red battery > >indicator > >means on my Grid 1755. Even the Grid proponents pass on it. It works but > >the battery had gone belly-up. I bought a "new" battery and for a while the > >former orange changed to green but later on changed to the flashing red. It > >accepts minimal charge but not enough to power the HD when off charge and > >displays the low-power steady red indicator before dying. If it was simply > >indicating a dead battery the old one wouldn't display a steady orange. Could > >it be lack of enough amperage from my adaptor to be able to charge ? > > I submit myself to the collective knowledge of the list. > > > >Lawrence > >Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net > > > >Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad > >he goes to his death and in death is made wise. > >Robert Graves > > Hello Robert, > > "...can't find any info as to what the flashing red battery indicator > means on my Grid 1755." > The batt indicator and the cmputer's beeper tell you the condition of the > battery in the following 5 ways: > > The indicator lights orange during charging > > The indicator lights green when the battery is fully charged and the ac is > supplying power. > > The indicator does not light if you run the computer on a fully charged > battery and the AC adapter is not connected. > > The indicator lights orange and blinks if you remove the battery from the > computer if AC power is being used or if the battery is damaged. > > The indicator lights red and a continuous tone sounds when battery power > drops below the power level needed for normal operation. NOTE: the > indicator might light red during disk operations. If the indicator turns > off when the disk drive turns off, the battery still has plenty of > power. When the batt indicator lights red, a tone sounds until the > computer automatically turns off. you have about 2 minutes to save your > data to the hard disk or a diskette. To turn off the tone, press FN+F5. > > This is from the owners manual for the grid 1755. > > Bill > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 4 00:42:32 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: why won't this work?? Message-ID: <3C831758.E95F532@internet1.net> Hello, Awhile back I found a box of SCO Opendesktop on QIC 24 tape. Well I can't it to load off the tape!! I get all the way through to the point it wants the tape, but it doesn't find anything. I can hear the drive working. I've never used a tape drive before.... any ideas what might be wrong? The tape was un-opened when I got it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 4 00:48:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple Questions References: Message-ID: <005401c1c348$96d6b680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While I was reading up on these models, I got the impression that the //c+ runs a 4 MHz 65C02 at 3.579545 (color burst) MHz, while the IIe seems, from casual observation to run at half that rate. The original ][+ ran at 3.579545 divided by 4 or about 900kHz, so you can figure that these guys are essentially 4x and 2x as fast. None of them are terribly slow. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Sridhar" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 11:16 PM Subject: Apple Questions > > Is the //c+ faster than the //e? How much faster is the //gs than the > //c+? Why didn't they release the //e+? > > Peace... Sridhar > > From jon at slurpee.org Mon Mar 4 00:48:59 2002 From: jon at slurpee.org (Jon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: WTT: Stuff for IRIX Message-ID: I have a bunch of NeXT stuff, sgi stuff, and some sun and apple stuff. Let me know if you have a copy of 6.5 for the o2 (r5k), octane, indigo 2 (r4400, and r10k), or indy's. Thanks, jon From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 4 00:51:49 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple Questions References: Message-ID: <3C831985.FB23FEAA@internet1.net> The //e is 1mhz, the //gs is 4mhz, I don't know about the //c+. I would imagine that no //e+ was made because unlike the //c the //e is quite expandable with it's many expansion slots. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Julius Sridhar wrote: > > Is the //c+ faster than the //e? How much faster is the //gs than the > //c+? Why didn't they release the //e+? > > Peace... Sridhar From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 4 01:06:03 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: OT: DAVE 2.5.2 for Mac Message-ID: Does anyone happen to have a copy of the V2.5.2 updater for DAVE? After about 2 1/2 years I'm finally using the copy of 2.5 I bought, and it looks like Thursby no longer has the updater available for download (instead it looks like they want you to buy a 3.1 upgrade). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vance at ikickass.org Mon Mar 4 01:34:25 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Apple Questions In-Reply-To: <3C831985.FB23FEAA@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > The //e is 1mhz, the //gs is 4mhz, I don't know about the //c+. I would > imagine that no //e+ was made because unlike the //c the //e is quite > expandable with it's many expansion slots. But the //e+ was prototyped. It just was never released. Peace... Sridhar From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 4 01:52:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > How to explain? Hmm. ASCII art. > normal car: > ____ > ___/ \___ > |o________o| (front) > > Kombi version of the above: > _________ > | \___ > |o_________o| (front) Aha. > How do you call this type of car? A Hearsh (used to carry dead people to the cemetary :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 4 01:55:25 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:01 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Sounds like a minivan... > I must say though, the better option for the collector is... > ___ > ______| \___ > > |_o___|____o| (front) > > > ...you can some pretty tall items in the back, since there's no roof to stop > you. My ideal classic computer rescue vehicle would be an old milk truck from the 1940s or 1950s. Classic inside classic, and lots of room for the big stuff :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 4 02:11:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Apple Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > Is the //c+ faster than the //e? Yes. It uses a 4Mhz 65C02. The //e, depending on the model, officially had either a 1Mhz 6502 or 1.1Mhz 65C02. > How much faster is the //gs than the //c+? A stock //gs used a 2.8Mhz 65C816 (16-bit registers, 24-bit addressing). So a speed comparison isn't totally valid, but an Apple ][ program running on a //c would probably be faster than the same running on a //gs. > Why didn't they release the //e+? Never heard of that, but there was the Enchanced //e, which contained a 65C02 and an updated character ROM to include "MouseText", which has line and icon characters to allow for pretty windows and things. The basic //e models are: Original //e - white labeled keys, has old-style lid fasteners like the ][+ Common //e - black labeled keys, new-style lid locks, double hi-res mode Enhanced //e - keyboard has a smoother action, 65C02 processor, MouseText Platinum //e - same as Enhanced, "platinum" case color, numeric keypad There are a few revisions in between the various basic models. The regular //e could be made into an Enhanced //e with an enhancement kit which was just a 65C02 and the new character ROM. The original //e cannot do double hi-res graphics. There is also the Super ][ board of which only about a hundred were made, which was supposed to be the prototype for the //e. Here's a link with some info: http://apple2history.org/a/museum/superii.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at vintage.org Mon Mar 4 03:37:11 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Software for X-10 Powerhouse CP290 computer interface Message-ID: Does anyone have the Apple ][ or Commodore software for the X-10 Powerhouse CP290 computer interface? I found one of these yesterday and would like to play around with the software depicted on the box. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 4 04:21:39 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: References: <20020303184226.C230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. How to explain? Hmm. ASCII art. normal car: ____ ___/ \___ |o________o| (front) Kombi version of the above: _________ | \___ |o_________o| (front) How do you call this type of car? > What model of Symbolics was this? A 3670. The two even biger 3600 are still there... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 4 04:46:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Software for X-10 Powerhouse CP290 computer interface In-Reply-To: <200203041814.NAA26193@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Bryan Pope wrote: > I found some technical info at: > > http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/discovery/ I have the manual that came with the unit. What I would like is the software that they also sold (separately) for the Apple ][ and C64. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 4 05:06:41 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s Message-ID: <000401c1c36c$aa9bb520$b6469280@y5f3q8> Hi! Does anyone have any info/manual/docs for a Raylan fiber concentrator w/ SNMP card? I have a nice chassis full of 10bFL cards, including the SNMP card, but I don't have any docs for it. Some of the revisions of fiber cards (as well as some AUI ports) have a jumper labled `RAYLAN MODE' and `IBM MODE', or sometimes `A' and `B'. I'd kind of like to know what it does. Also, the SNMP card has an IP set, which of course doens't fit into my network all that well, I'd like to chage it if I could. I had a few hits googling when I first received it, but that was all just people complaining that the 10b2 ports were unreliable. :( I'm also looking for someone who's had a lot of experience with Xyplex 1600 terminal servers, or even still has one in service. I've got one with the memory expansion, but no flash card to boot it from. I have what is supposed to be the latest firmware, but I can't seem to get it to boot properly. The image is tftp'd, and then the box seems to reboot again-- starts the self test over, and fetches the image again. This too has someone's old config set on it, which might be part of the problem. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Mar 4 06:21:33 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A654@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Valence? Fascia? > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:13 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: What is the 'official' name? > > > What is the 'official' name of the thing we call 'rack-top > panel', 'rack > header panel', 'maroon/red panel', 'logo panel', 'marquee', etc.? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 4 08:01:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020302205529.007eb510@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:04 PM 3/2/02 -0800, Don wrote: > > >On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Thanks for posting these. I know that I just asked for the jumper >> settings but I think I'm going to need more. I want to replace some Shugart >> 800s in my Intel MDS with the Shugarts 851s and I've been studying the >> interface, wiring and S 800 setup and Intel has cobbled up a truely >> bizzarre setup and I think I'm going to need the whole OEM setup manual for >> the 851 so that I can find out where to make some of the circuit >> modifications. A couple of people have already promised to get me a copy. >> Thanks. > >Joe, in a `normal' Shugart drive installation, a switch from SA-800/1 to >the SA-850/1 is almost a dropin replacement. If it is more than that, >Intel must have engaged in some `hanky-panky' with their circuitry. Oh, they've engaged in lots of 'hanky-panky'! Let me tell you about just one thing that I've found so far. I started checking the cables from the dirve controller all the way out to the drives in their external drive box and I found that each drive had a small circuit card that plugged in between the drive connector and the ribbon cable. On the circuit card is two jumpers marked S and R. Each has two positions; 0 and 1. I checked to see what they did and found that S connects to DS (Drive Select) line 1 or DS line 2 coming from the controller card BUT the common pin on the S jumper connects to BOTH DS 1 and DS 2 inputs to the drive. This is hard wired so it can't be changed. Now I wondered what they hell they were doing selecting TWO DS lines simultaniously so I started checking the drive itself. It turns out that there is a way to address up to 8 drives per system instead of the usual four and that Intel is basing their addressing on that method. What they've done is to remove all the DS jumpers on the drive and add a 74L85 (IIRC) four bit comparator IC. The four DS inputs fed the B inputs of the comparator and they use three pairs of pads (D1, D2, D4) on the drive to fed three of the A inputs. But wait, they're using four inputs on one side but only three on the other. Somethings wrong. Well the A0 input is permanently active (Low = active) and only the three upper lines are used for setting the address. Since A0 is permanently low that means that B0 also has to be low (active) to select the drive. That's why they tied DS1 to DS 2 (DS 1 goes to A0). They've also added a line from the A=B output of the comparator back to the output of the original drive select circuitry (via pad DDS) to enable the drive when the correct address is recieved. The crazy thing about this whole affair is that the drive controller can only select one DS line at a time. It is not capable of being used in a binary mode! So all of this added complication is utterly useless! If you look at the jumper listings that you send me for the 851 drives you'll find that there are no Dx or DDS pads listed so there's one big difference there and I haven't even started to look the "complicated" stuff yet! That's why I need the complete manual. I could probably remove the comparator and use the DS jumpers but there may be other things involved too and I'm trying to keep everything as original as possible. Also I found that they're using one of the "alternate I/O pins" (# 16) for something but I haven't traced it out yet. FWIW I found that the "R" jumper on the added circuit card is used to route the "Ready" signal from the drive back to the correct Ready line on the cable that goes back to the controller card. Just for a little backgraound. This is an Intel Series III model 235 MDS with the model 202 Double Density floppy drive controller added. The external drive is an Intel model 720. It holds two Shugart FH model 800 8" floppy drives. The control card can handle up to four external drives (two chassis) and has four Drive Select lines and four Ready lines but the output cable splits into two and connects to two rear panel connectors, J8 and J9, so each connector (and therefore each drive) only has two select and two ready lines. Each connector can be used to connect to one external drive chassis (two drives). Joe > >Good luck! > - don > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 4 08:19:22 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > _________ > | \___ > |o_________o| (front) > How do you call this type of car? Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of equipment for the collector. Doc From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 4 08:39:50 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A654@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <008401c1c38a$71215e80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Valence? Fascia? Dictionary. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Mar 4 08:46:32 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A656@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > _________ > > | \___ > > |o_________o| (front) > > How do you call this type of car? > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > equipment for the collector. Actually, the Kombi stands a bit taller than a station wagon, but doesn't sit as high above the road as an SUV... IIRC... sort-of a cross between them, with some genes from a VW Microbus and Land Rover thrown in (although Kombis predate the Microbus)... I'm told many are outfitted for camping excursions. -dq From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Mar 4 08:47:51 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) Message-ID: <20020304.092829.-46089261.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Actually, doc, it looks like they used a VAN: The Kombi is the Volkswagon equivalent of the 'Chevy Van'. Yes, every collector should have one . . . On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:19:22 -0600 (CST) Doc writes: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > _________ > > | \___ > > |o_________o| (front) > > How do you call this type of car? > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > equipment for the collector. > > Doc > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Mar 4 09:16:08 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > _________ > > | \___ > > |o_________o| (front) > > How do you call this type of car? > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > equipment for the collector. > ROFL, Doc. Uhm, A hatch-back? Sort of like a car turned wanna-be SUV. Of course, anything that could fit more into it than my Camry is enviable to some extent. -- Pat From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Mar 4 09:19:04 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Seattle Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146771F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Chris > > >Corona PC portable (looks like compaq portable) > > I just gave one of these to David W on Sunday... I have two more, but am > missing the covers for them. > > -chris --- Chris, is the little wife making you clear out _everything_? Tell her I said thanks ;-) BTW, did you guys make it to Mystic? Yeah, the Corona is a neat looking little box. Haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet, though. Have to build a workbench/desk for computer hacking first. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Mar 4 09:19:48 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A56@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've > done this a > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 4 09:33:14 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Apple Questions References: Message-ID: <3C8393BA.6C30CB4E@ccp.com> Julius Sridhar wrote: > > Is the //c+ faster than the //e? How much faster is the //gs than the > //c+? Why didn't they release the //e+? > > Peace... Sridhar Certainly is . . the IIc+ has a built-in ZipChip. That's they only way they could handle the data output from the 3.5" drive. There was no IIe+ because the IIgs was out at this time. Then mamagement pooh-poohed the IIgs in favor of the Mac. And the rest is history now. Gary HIldebrand St. Joseph, MO From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Mar 4 09:35:51 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Valence? Fascia? > > Dictionary. The Tome is At Home... ;) From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Mar 4 09:39:19 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > > _________ > > > | \___ > > > |o_________o| (front) > > > How do you call this type of car? > > > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > > equipment for the collector. > > Actually, the Kombi stands a bit taller than a station wagon, > but doesn't sit as high above the road as an SUV... IIRC... > sort-of a cross between them, with some genes from a VW Microbus > and Land Rover thrown in (although Kombis predate the Microbus)... > > I'm told many are outfitted for camping excursions. > > -dq ----- Sounds like a minivan... I must say though, the better option for the collector is... ___ ______| \___ > |_o___|____o| (front) > ...you can some pretty tall items in the back, since there's no roof to stop you. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Mar 4 09:39:39 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board References: Message-ID: <3C83953B.E54E59B8@ccp.com> Louis Schulman wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:27:20 +0000 (UTC), Sellam Ismail wrote: > > #On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > # > #> Trying to figure out what this one is: > #> > #> I think it is an Apple built memory board, has two rows of ram chips, 32 > #> total, PLCC custom chip and a 24 pin (rom?) chip at the bafk end of the > #> board. Number silk screened is 670-0024-A > # > #Are you sure it's for the //e? The only memory boards that I know Apple > #made were for the //gs (if you don't count the 16K "Language Card" and the > #expanded 80 column text card). > > Yes, this is for the //e. It is the 1 meg slinky memory board. ProDos will automatically recognize it as a 1 meg ram disk in whatever slot it is in. Appleworks will also > use it automatically, as will a few other programs. > > It is great for file transfers, since there is no delay waiting for a physical drive. Very useful. > > You guys made me pull the top off my //e to check the card. I just couldn't take it any more. > > Louis Well that sounds right . . . but it is full of 4164 chips, and a couple of 41256's I guesstimated that it was 256k. If it were 1 meg it would be all 256k x 1 chips. I'll do some research and see exactly what is going on here. Gary HIldebrand, Apple IIe newbie St. Joseph, MO From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Mar 4 09:55:52 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8D50@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> AFAIK, it is called a "face plate". But then again, as non-English speaker, I could be wrong. - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey S. Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:13 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: What is the 'official' name? > > What is the 'official' name of the thing we call 'rack-top > panel', 'rack > header panel', 'maroon/red panel', 'logo panel', 'marquee', etc.? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 4 09:56:46 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) References: <20020303184226.C230637@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C83993E.52796D56@jetnet.ab.ca> Good art work. car: before shopping > ____ > ___/ \___ > |o________o| (front) > Car: after shopping. __ > / \____ > | \__ > |o_________o| (front) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Mar 4 10:12:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A59@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] > I'm also looking for someone who's had a lot of experience > with Xyplex 1600 > terminal servers, or even still has one in service. I've got > one with the > memory expansion, but no flash card to boot it from. I have what is > supposed to be the latest firmware, but I can't seem to get it to boot > properly. The image is tftp'd, and then the box seems to > reboot again-- > starts the self test over, and fetches the image again. This too has > someone's old config set on it, which might be part of the problem. I have the machine (I think it's a 1600), but I don't even have the software ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 4 10:12:46 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304.092829.-46089261.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>; from jeff.kaneko@juno.com on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 08:47:51AM -0600 References: <20020304.092829.-46089261.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020304171246.A30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 08:47:51AM -0600, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Actually, doc, it looks like they used a VAN: Isn't a van somthing larger? Large enough to stand upright in the back? A "kombi" is the same height, with and length like a regular car, only with a different back. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From hans at Huebner.ORG Mon Mar 4 10:14:22 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304.092829.-46089261.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020304171126.D53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat Variant, which you can see at http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 4 10:25:23 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>; from DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 10:39:19AM -0500 References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 10:39:19AM -0500, David Woyciesjes wrote: > I must say though, the better option for the collector is... > ___ > ______| \___ > > |_o___|____o| (front) > > > ...you can some pretty tall items in the back, since there's no roof to stop > you. [having an IKEA commercial in mind] The first bridge will stop you, at least your 4m tall machine stack on the loading space. ;-) And to stop this discussion: Wat a collector really needs is a truck with at least 7,5t of loading capacity and a forklift. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Mar 4 10:28:21 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A5E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > Sounds like a minivan... > I must say though, the better option for the collector is... > ___ > ______| \___ > > |_o___|____o| (front) > > > ...you can some pretty tall items in the back, since there's > no roof to stop > you. What about: __________________ | | __ | | | \_ | |_| | |_OOOO________OOO_____O_| (front) ? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 4 10:33:58 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:52:32AM +0000 References: <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020304173358.C30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:52:32AM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > How do you call this type of car? > A Hearsh (used to carry dead people to the cemetary :) Yes, thats it. But please used with that particular smell and that nice curtains at the windows. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 4 10:36:42 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) References: Message-ID: <000f01c1c39a$c4895900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The Kombiwagen is definitely a station wagon. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > _________ > > | \___ > > |o_________o| (front) > > How do you call this type of car? > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > equipment for the collector. > > Doc > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Mar 4 10:48:15 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen. It is marked > FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an > "A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before... > > Ideas? Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH' parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969, so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 4 10:52:20 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C83A644.6771CBFB@jetnet.ab.ca> Jochen Kunz wrote: > > And to stop this discussion: Wat a collector really needs is a truck > with at least 7,5t of loading capacity and a forklift. > -- No ... what a collector really needs is not to live on the third floor.:) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Mar 4 10:52:47 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: why won't this work?? In-Reply-To: <3C831758.E95F532@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Awhile back I found a box of SCO Opendesktop on QIC 24 tape. Well I > can't it to load off the tape!! I get all the way through to the > point it wants the tape, but it doesn't find anything. I can hear the > drive working. I've never used a tape drive before.... any ideas what > might be wrong? The tape was un-opened when I got it. What type of tape are they and what model drive do you have? There are about 7-9 different types of tapes, and no single drive will work with all of them. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Mar 4 11:04:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s In-Reply-To: <000401c1c36c$aa9bb520$b6469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > I'm also looking for someone who's had a lot of experience with Xyplex > 1600 terminal servers, or even still has one in service. I've got one > with the memory expansion, but no flash card to boot it from. I have > what is supposed to be the latest firmware, but I can't seem to get it > to boot properly. The image is tftp'd, and then the box seems to > reboot again-- starts the self test over, and fetches the image again. > This too has someone's old config set on it, which might be part of > the problem. I can't say anything good about Xyplex ethernet gear made in the mid to late 90s, but their terminal server units may be a little better. Xyplex will still sell you the software for their terminal servers, but you won't like the price. I have a dual floppy drive stored away somewhere for a Xyplex terminal server. It is labeled as "bad", but I imagine it can be repaired easily. -Toth From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 4 11:27:27 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C83AE7F.338FD00F@Vishay.com> Why stop the discussion, you're right: a 7.5 ton (metric tons, as per old class II driving license in Germany) car like a Mercedes-Benz 813 or 814 is a good thing. In ancient times, I owned half of a little company owning such a truck. The largest freight (in terms of computers) it ever had to take besides company stuff was a pair of VAX8600s plus two HSC50s and a couple of four-high RA disk closets (the SA482, IIRC). Yes, we used a forklift to get that stuff onto the truck. And it was something like half loaded with that. Today, I own a Passat Variant (1991 model). It can take a single 19" rack if you can tilt it to load, but some of the rack will stick out at the back (tested, that's where my PDP-11/34A now lives). Way back in the 70s, when I was in Nebraska for a visit, I noticed that what we call the "Passat" was known as the "Dasher" in the States. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From aek at spies.com Mon Mar 4 11:44:28 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) Message-ID: <200203041744.JAA13768@spies.com> > I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by > the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself. The power distribution in 11/20's is though paddle cards that plug into the slots, instead of using AMP connectors underneath, so it will take some harness mods to use an RK11-D in it. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 4 12:11:31 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: <200203041744.JAA13768@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020304121131.00a24b70@ubanproductions.com> >> I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by >> the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself. > >The power distribution in 11/20's is though paddle cards that plug into the >slots, instead of using AMP connectors underneath, so it will take some >harness mods to use an RK11-D in it. Did they ever make a version of the RK11-D backplane which used the paddle power? They made both paddle power and AMP connector versions of the DD11 four slot backplanes... --tom From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 4 12:11:55 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: <3C83A644.6771CBFB@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > And to stop this discussion: Wat a collector really needs is a truck > > with at least 7,5t of loading capacity and a forklift. > No ... what a collector really needs is not to live on the third > floor.:) Why not? That leaves TWO floors for mainframes and minis, with micros, terminals and living quarters on the third. For a micro collector, and even small minis, a mommy-van is adequate. Particularly if you were to add a trailer hitch and trailer and a wheelchair style lift. From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Mar 4 12:14:06 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Software for X-10 Powerhouse CP290 computer interface In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 4, 02 09:37:11 am Message-ID: <200203041814.NAA26193@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > > Does anyone have the Apple ][ or Commodore software for the X-10 > Powerhouse CP290 computer interface? > > I found one of these yesterday and would like to play around with the > software depicted on the box. > I found some technical info at: http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/discovery/ Cheers, Bryan From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Mar 4 12:36:37 2002 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 04-Mar-2002 Pat Finnegan wrote: > Uhm, A hatch-back? Sort of like a car turned wanna-be SUV. As opposed to a SUV turned into a wannabe minivan, driven by a wannabe "backroader". -Philip From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 4 12:38:06 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A56@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've > > done this a > > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) B4 02 B2 44 EB 11 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 29 61 20 63 6F 6D 6D 65 6E 74 CD 21 Or for the disassembly challenged: MOV AH, 2 MOV DL, 'D' JMP over DB 'This is a comment' over: INT 21h -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 4 12:41:21 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34)" (Mar 4, 17:33) References: <20020304112139.A233123@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020304173358.C30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10203041841.ZM26428@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 17:33, Jochen Kunz wrote: On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:52:32AM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > How do you call this type of car? > > A Hearsh (used to carry dead people to the cemetary :) > Yes, thats it. But please used with that particular smell and that > nice curtains at the windows. ;-) Erm, "hearse" :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 4 12:41:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: > and Land Rover thrown in (although Kombis predate the Microbus)... 'Kombi' was ONE of the several 1950s names of the VW type 2 (aka "VW bus", aka "Microbus") The model 215 would be one of the best for this purpose (freight doors on BOTH sides), although one of the "safari" models with the giant sunroof could be quite handy. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 4 12:43:48 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 References: Message-ID: <3C83C064.F8B5498F@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen. It is marked > > FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an > > "A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before... > > > > Ideas? > > Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH' > parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969, > so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort. TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip they could only afford it for things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main frames. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 4 12:44:42 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: Doc "Re: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34)" (Mar 4, 8:19) References: Message-ID: <10203041844.ZM26436@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 8:19, Doc wrote: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 07:21:29PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > How the HELL do you fit a Symbolics machine in a trunk??? > > The car was a "Kombi", sorry I don't know the english expression. > > _________ > > | \___ > > |o_________o| (front) > > How do you call this type of car? > > Lines & O's? An ASCII-mobile? ;) > I think you have a "station wagon". A very important piece of > equipment for the collector. No, no, no, you want a Saab 900 (classic, not the newer body shape) ;-) _______ / \___ |o_________o| (front) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 4 12:48:02 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: why won't this work?? References: Message-ID: <3C83C162.89488CB1@internet1.net> It's a Tandberg Internal QIC 2GB SCSI Tape Drive Model: TDC 4220, although it is the IBM version. It is supposed to be able to read a qic24 tape, as I checked Tandberg's web site before I bought it. I don't know how to identify the tape anymore than qic24. I have zero tape drive experience. I installed the drive into an IBM 3510 enclosure, enabled termination power, set the id to 2, and enabled parity. Should I have not enabled parity? I figured it would be desirable, and I think the Adaptec 1640 scsi card will handle it. Maybe I should explore that. I get a error message that mentions something about not being able to establish block size..... I didn't write it down. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tothwolf wrote: > > What type of tape are they and what model drive do you have? There are > about 7-9 different types of tapes, and no single drive will work with all > of them. > > -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 4 12:53:38 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Andreas Freiherr "Re: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34)" (Mar 4, 18:27) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C83AE7F.338FD00F@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <10203041853.ZM26442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 18:27, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Today, I own a Passat Variant (1991 model). It can take a single 19" > rack if you can tilt it to load, but some of the rack will stick out at > the back That's why I said you need a Saab 900. My 900i will take a single full-height DEC rack (on its side). The hatchback won't *quite* shut, but nothing sticks out. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 4 12:56:22 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > My ideal classic computer rescue vehicle would be an old milk truck from > > the 1940s or 1950s. Classic inside classic, and lots of room for the big > > stuff :) > > You mean like the one on this page? > > http://www.darigold.com/heritage.asp Not quite that classic, but similar. I was thinking of something a little bit longer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Mar 4 13:12:38 2002 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-1 In-Reply-To: <20020304171126.D53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> Message-ID: On 04-Mar-2002 Hans H?bner wrote: > One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat > Variant, which you can see at > http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg That's what I would call a station wagon. Where were the SUVs of the 50s. For the historically inclinded, the "station" in "station wagon" were the buildings that were pretty far away on the ranch. -Philip From vcf at vintage.org Mon Mar 4 13:14:29 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? Message-ID: We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment option for moving. Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at U-Haul, which is always a cheap solution, but he's stuck right now hassling with them over some issues from a prior moves where the trucks broke down (U-Haul trucks are deathtraps on wheels). There are a few other truck rental places we're going to try to get quotes from (Ryder is asking around $1,500, we haven't checked Budget or Penske yet), but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. Any suggestions are appreciated. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From red at bears.org Mon Mar 4 13:19:31 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > My ideal classic computer rescue vehicle would be an old milk truck from > the 1940s or 1950s. Classic inside classic, and lots of room for the big > stuff :) You mean like the one on this page? http://www.darigold.com/heritage.asp I'm not EVEN going into what my connection with it is, but they do still maintain one old milk truck (similar but not identical to the one on that page). They used to have information on their actual truck on the page, but it seems to have been taken down recently. They even have a genuine classic milkman to drive it in parades and at other promotional events. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 13:28:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 3, 2 07:29:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 753 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/2f978444/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 13:30:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 3, 2 10:47:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/05164d08/attachment.ksh From jon at slurpee.org Mon Mar 4 13:52:47 2002 From: jon at slurpee.org (Jon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: WTB: Computer t-shirts Message-ID: its hard to find a t-shirt in a large, and XL is just to big for me, so if you have any t-shirts in m/l that deal with the following let me know apple be a/ux NeXT sgi hpux sgi rs6000 I'd be interested in buying or trading (I have some XL t-shirts and computer equipment :) Thanks, jon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 13:58:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:02 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 4, 2 09:01:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/607f5933/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 14:06:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: <200203041744.JAA13768@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Mar 4, 2 09:44:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 414 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/7dab3b94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 14:08:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 4, 2 10:38:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/2587ea84/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 4 14:29:46 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've > > > > done this a > > > > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > > > Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) > > > > B4 02 B2 44 EB 11 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 29 61 20 > > 63 6F 6D 6D 65 6E 74 CD 21 > > > > Or for the disassembly challenged: > > MOV AH, 2 > > MOV DL, 'D' > > JMP over > > DB 'This is a comment' > > over: INT 21h On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > And you seriously think I've got enough space to do that in one of my > firmware ROMs ????? Of course not. But the issue was "there is no way to include comments", not whether it was practical or a good idea :-) Your comments can be in a binder on a shelf. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Mar 4 14:45:03 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 problem In-Reply-To: <3C7D42A7.B7E75097@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: I've narrowed it down to the either the board in the DSD-440 chassis itself, or the board that's part of the individual drive. It seems that besides the ID number of the drive, there is some sort of bus address that is set differently on each RX02 in the unit. Jumpers T1, T3, T4, T5, T6, and D are set differently between the two drives, besides the DS1 and DS2 setting. Do you have docs for the jumper settings? Thanks, Tom On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote: > If you do not have the documentation I could help you out with a copy of the > led decoding chart. From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Mar 4 14:51:14 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: SCSI options for PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: <3C81A92F.DC8A0EFF@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote: > I can't understand how funding can be so tight that a project which uses > a $ 100 million satellite can't find the support for a PDP-11 system > at this point. Realize that the program paid $0 for the satellite, since it was already taken out of service from its original use. > Doe someone nearby have a BA23 box that they can provide you. That > will be a problem to some extent since you should also have at least > an M8189 (quad 11/23 with boot ROMs). But I would be willing to send > that to you if more memory would also help. Otherwise, if 1/4 MByte > of memory is sufficient, then your present system with a SCSI host > adapter and hard drive will likely serve you very well. I did manage to pickup an empty Microvax chassis. Its 9-slot, and I'm not sure exactly what it is. VS31V-A2 is the model number on the back of the case, but that sounds like a system model number. Anyway, the 128KW of memory I have is plenty for what I need. Do I have to use the M8189 with this chassis or can I use my M8186? Thanks again, Tom From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 4 15:04:57 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C83AE7F.338FD00F@Vishay.com> <10203041853.ZM26442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C83E179.2FF60CB6@Vishay.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Mar 4, 18:27, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Today, I own a Passat Variant (1991 model). It can take a single 19" > > rack if you can tilt it to load, but some of the rack will stick out at > > the back > > That's why I said you need a Saab 900. My 900i will take a single > full-height DEC rack (on its side). The hatchback won't *quite* shut, but > nothing sticks out. That's what I call 100% compatible. Does the "i" mean the same as in "Oracle 8i"? ;^) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bloibl at topinform.com Mon Mar 4 15:06:21 2002 From: bloibl at topinform.com (Brigitte Loibl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Schematics of HP 9845b Message-ID: <3C83E1CD.BC7FFE1D@topinform.com> Hello all, I'm very sad - finally my HP9845b is dead! I'm beleaving, it's a problem with the power supply. Some years ago I changed some capacitors already. Does someone has or does kwow where to get schematics of the HP9845b? Kind regards Andreas From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 4 15:16:56 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Write only programming References: Message-ID: <3C83E448.68ED79FE@Vishay.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've > > > > done this a > > > > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > > > Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) > > > > B4 02 B2 44 EB 11 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 29 61 20 > > 63 6F 6D 6D 65 6E 74 CD 21 > > > > Or for the disassembly challenged: > > MOV AH, 2 > > MOV DL, 'D' > > JMP over > > DB 'This is a comment' > > over: INT 21h > > And you seriously think I've got enough space to do that in one of my > firmware ROMs ????? > > -tony Nah, do it this way: MOV AH, 2 MOV DL, 'D' back: DB 'This is a comment' ORG back INT 21h Saves a lot of space in your ROM by keeping the comment in the source, where it belongs. We're still not too serious about all this, are we? ;-) So I can add that you may need to keep your comments shorter near the end of the object code? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From louiss at gate.net Mon Mar 4 16:11:39 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Apple IIe memory board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:30:03 +0000 (UTC), Sellam Ismail wrote: #On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Louis Schulman wrote: # #> Yes, this is for the //e. It is the 1 meg slinky memory board. ProDos #> will automatically recognize it as a 1 meg ram disk in whatever slot it #> is in. Appleworks will also use it automatically, as will a few other #> programs. # #Well then it may well be a Ramfactor, or perhaps a RamWorks. No, No! It is made by Apple, not AE. It is called "A II Memory Expansion", Apple Computer, c.1985. Now you made me pull off the top of my //e again. Geez! Louis From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 4 16:21:53 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > > On 04-Mar-2002 Hans H?bner wrote: > > One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat > > Variant, which you can see at > > http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg > > That's what I would call a station wagon. Where were the SUVs of the 50s. > For the historically inclinded, the "station" in "station wagon" were the > buildings that were pretty far away on the ranch. > > -Philip The SUVs of the '50s were the Dodge Powerwagon series of vehicles, which were direct descendants of some of the WWII military vehicles. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 16:35:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Schematics of HP 9845b In-Reply-To: <3C83E1CD.BC7FFE1D@topinform.com> from "Brigitte Loibl" at Mar 4, 2 10:06:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 471 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/c802f00e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 16:39:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <3C83E448.68ED79FE@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Mar 4, 2 10:16:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 968 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/2f5074cf/attachment.ksh From jss at subatomix.com Mon Mar 4 16:57:31 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: WTB: Computer t-shirts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020304165658.U31900-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jon wrote: > its hard to find a t-shirt in a large, and XL is just to big for me, so > if you have any t-shirts in m/l that deal with the following let me know Make your own. It's easy to get the supplies nowadays, and you aren't limited by just what's out there. I will do this soon. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 4 17:03:54 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Schematics of HP 9845b In-Reply-To: <3C83E1CD.BC7FFE1D@topinform.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020304180354.00803d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Andreas, I wish I did. I spent a couple of years looking for some. I did finally find a service manual on E-bay but someone else sniped it at the last second! I asked the buyer and he said that there were practically no schematics in the manual. He also promised to make a copy of the manual for me but never did. FWIW I found that the 9845s had lots of poor connections. I was always having to take mine apart and clean the contacts. I would advise investing in a bottle of that expensive contact cleaner/preservative and see if it helps. Also there are at least two different power supplies used in the 9845B. Joe At 10:06 PM 3/4/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I'm very sad - finally my HP9845b is dead! > >I'm beleaving, it's a problem with the power supply. Some years ago I >changed some capacitors already. > >Does someone has or does kwow where to get schematics of the HP9845b? > >Kind regards > >Andreas > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 4 17:08:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:58 PM 3/4/02 +0000, Tony wrote: > >I happen to have the 'Intellec Series II Microcomputer Development System >Double-Density Diskette Subsystem Schematic Drawings' here. (Phew, what a >title). I am not sure if this is the same unit that you have, but it >might provide some information. Unfortunately, I don't have any >information on the drives themselves -- there are no schematics or link >settings given. I do have info on the 2 multibus cards (controller), the >PSU, and the cabling. I have that manual for both the MDS 720 drive (two drives laying horizontally and using a double density controller) and for the older MS 2DS system (two drives mounted vertically and using the single density controller) and NEITHER of them says one word about the drives! It's amazing to me that intel would go to the level of detail that they do but completely ignore the drives! J1 P1 (cable) (drive) Odd # Odd # Ground 2 46 Read Data 4 2 Not used (or even connected?) >> Not connected 6 42 Track 0 8 20 Index 10 16 Track <43 (is this really track > 43 ???) >>My docs say "< 43" also. Shugart says that pin 16 is an "alternate I/O" connector and it can be used for whatever the manufacturer decides. I've checked and it does connect back to the drive controller. So it's something else that I have to investigate. It's shown as track<43 on my schemaitc By the time it gets back the to the 'FDC Interface', it's become 'Track>43 01/' (or 'Track>43 23/' for the second drive cabinet). It's an output from the controller to the drive and seems to be the standard reduce write current signal. That's what I thought but I haven't had time to trace it all the way back to the controller yet. 12 36 Step 14 34 Direction 16 40 Write Gate >> intel calls it "write safe"! 18 38 Write Data 20 26,28 Select 0 ) Either cable pin can be jumpered to 22 26,28 Select 1 ) both drive pins by the S0/S1 jumper >> Correct. 24 4 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 26 6 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 28 22 Ready 0 ) Either cable pin can be jumpered to 30 22 Ready 1 ) drive pin 22 by the R0/R1 jumper >> Right. Drive pin 22 (Ready) can be jumpered to either ready line of the cable (pin 28 or 30) 32 10 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 34 12 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 36 44 Write Protect 38 48 Read Data (Separated) >> Not connected at P8. 40 14 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 42 50 Read Clock (Separated) >> Not connected at P8. 44 18 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 46 24 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 48 30 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. 50 32 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. There are no components other than connetors on the PCB in the manual. Correct. I don't think you need to worry about that. The controller seems to use a 1-of-n active low drive select scheme (2 DS lines per drive cabinet cable), so you can just link each wire to a particular drive's active DS line. That's what I thought but I suspect there may be more to these. Shugart had some odd options available like "seek without selecting a drive" and "seek without loading the head" and this may be using one of those and that may explain why they did it this way. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 4 17:23:30 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Schematics of HP 9845b In-Reply-To: References: <3C83E1CD.BC7FFE1D@topinform.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020304182330.007fbe10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The power supply in the 9845 isn't likely to resemble that in the 9825. The 9845 PS is a shoe box sized unit that sits below and between the two pillars that support the monitor. Inside it has one large circuit board and four more circuit boards that plug into it around the edges so that it resembles a box with an open top. I just pulled out the dead one that I still had laying around here. It has a number of test points on the top. One group of four with + 17 VDC, -17 VDC, +13 VDC and Gnd 2. Another group of four with two of them plugged. The reamining two are marked "C 18 175 VDC Max" across them. Then two individaul ones on the top RH side that say 12 VDC and Logic Gnd. Below them is five more in a zig zag pattern. They're marked +5 VDC, -12 VDC, +18VDC, +7 VDC and - 18 VDC. FWIW IIRC the other style didn't have test points on it but it seems to be more reliable. I think all the ones of this style that I've seen have had problems. This one has a large choke that's broken away from the board and all of it's pins is broken off flush with it's housing. It could probably be drilled out and the wires reconnected but I didn't bother since I had other PSs. I don't know if this PS has any other problems. Joe At 10:35 PM 3/4/02 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I'm very sad - finally my HP9845b is dead! >> >> I'm beleaving, it's a problem with the power supply. Some years ago I >> changed some capacitors already. > >How similar is the PSU to that in the HP9825? I have a reasonable amount >of info on that machine. > >In particular, what are the part number(s) on the PSU board(s). The first >5 digits normally give the machine where the board was first used, which >can be a help in tracking down info. > >-tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 17:26:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 4, 2 06:08:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/56b1e8de/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Mar 4 17:26:11 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: 8008 datasheets aviable Message-ID: <000d01c1c3d3$f8b65820$030101ac@boll.casema.net> To make good on an old promise and since someone really needed them I've scanned the Intel 8008 datasheets and put the up for grabs on my website. Look in the files-section of my website (folder 8008) at http://xgistor.ath.cx Have Fun! Sipke de Wal From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 4 17:31:19 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c1c3d4$b029d860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd advise you to pursue this from the controller end, initially. If you see that a line normally not connected between the controller and drive is driven at the controller, or, just as importantly, is received in some meaningful way at the controller, then you can, perhaps, by looking at the drive manual for the SA80x type, figure out what they might have had in mind. I'd advise you to start with the head select signal, since there's an even chance they didn't even support two-sided drives. In any case, if you examine the user-installable options, of which there are several, in the 80x manual, you'll probably be able to figure out what the Intel folks had in mind with their odd connections. Once you've figured out what the desired options on the SS drive are, you look in the manuual for the 85x drives and set up the corresponding options. As I said before, however, first you need to establish whether the Intel controller even supports the two-sided drives. I don't believe I ever saw an M2FM arrangement on a two-sided drive, not that it's complicated in any way. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > > At 07:58 PM 3/4/02 +0000, Tony wrote: > > > >I happen to have the 'Intellec Series II Microcomputer Development System > >Double-Density Diskette Subsystem Schematic Drawings' here. (Phew, what a > >title). I am not sure if this is the same unit that you have, but it > >might provide some information. Unfortunately, I don't have any > >information on the drives themselves -- there are no schematics or link > >settings given. I do have info on the 2 multibus cards (controller), the > >PSU, and the cabling. > > I have that manual for both the MDS 720 drive (two drives laying > horizontally and using a double density controller) and for the older MS > 2DS system (two drives mounted vertically and using the single density > controller) and NEITHER of them says one word about the drives! It's > amazing to me that intel would go to the level of detail that they do but > completely ignore the drives! > > > J1 P1 > (cable) (drive) > Odd # Odd # Ground > 2 46 Read Data > 4 2 Not used (or even connected?) >> Not connected > 6 42 Track 0 > 8 20 Index > 10 16 Track <43 (is this really track > 43 ???) >>My > docs say "< 43" also. > > Shugart says that pin 16 is an "alternate I/O" connector and it can be > used for whatever the manufacturer decides. I've checked and it does > connect back to the drive controller. So it's something else that I have to > investigate. > > It's shown as track<43 on my schemaitc By the time it gets back the to > the 'FDC Interface', it's become 'Track>43 01/' (or 'Track>43 23/' for > the second drive cabinet). It's an output from the controller to the > drive and seems to be the standard reduce write current signal. > > That's what I thought but I haven't had time to trace it all the way back > to the controller yet. > > 12 36 Step > 14 34 Direction > 16 40 Write Gate >> intel calls it "write safe"! > 18 38 Write Data > 20 26,28 Select 0 ) Either cable pin can be jumpered to > 22 26,28 Select 1 ) both drive pins by the S0/S1 jumper >> > Correct. > 24 4 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 26 6 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 28 22 Ready 0 ) Either cable pin can be jumpered to > 30 22 Ready 1 ) drive pin 22 by the R0/R1 jumper > >> Right. Drive pin 22 (Ready) can be jumpered to either ready line of the > cable (pin 28 or 30) > > 32 10 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 34 12 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 36 44 Write Protect > 38 48 Read Data (Separated) >> Not connected at P8. > 40 14 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 42 50 Read Clock (Separated) >> Not connected at P8. > 44 18 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 46 24 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 48 30 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > 50 32 Not used (or connected?) >> Not connected. > > There are no components other than connetors on the PCB in the manual. > > Correct. > > > > > > I don't think you need to worry about that. The controller seems to use a > 1-of-n active low drive select scheme (2 DS lines per drive cabinet > cable), so you can just link each wire to a particular drive's active DS > line. > > That's what I thought but I suspect there may be more to these. Shugart > had some odd options available like "seek without selecting a drive" and > "seek without loading the head" and this may be using one of those and that > may explain why they did it this way. > > Joe > > From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Mar 4 17:34:25 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 References: <3C83C064.F8B5498F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002f01c1c3d5$1f0ed280$030101ac@boll.casema.net> FJH was the Valvo prefix http://www.elektron-bbs.de/elektronik/tabellen/ddr/digibiic.htm Like some of the Siemens stuff it could be kinda special slow TTL intended for noisy industrial or automotive environments. Regards, Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Franchuk To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Weird 7410 > Tothwolf wrote: > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > > > I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen. It is marked > > > FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an > > > "A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before... > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH' > > parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969, > > so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort. > > TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip they could only afford > it for > things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main > frames. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 17:35:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 4, 2 03:45:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/b5a4eb16/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 4 17:39:54 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Andreas Freiherr "Re: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34)" (Mar 4, 22:04) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467720@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <20020304172523.B30501@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C83AE7F.338FD00F@Vishay.com> <10203041853.ZM26442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C83E179.2FF60CB6@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <10203042339.ZM26659@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 22:04, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > My 900i will take a single > > full-height DEC rack (on its side). The hatchback won't *quite* shut, but > > nothing sticks out. > > That's what I call 100% compatible. Which is why the one I'm planning to replace it with is the same body style :-) > Does the "i" mean the same as in "Oracle 8i"? ;^) Not unless that denotes an 8-valve injection version ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 4 17:45:46 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue)" (Mar 4, 20:06) References: Message-ID: <10203042345.ZM26669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 4, 20:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > The power distribution in 11/20's is though paddle cards that plug into the > > slots, instead of using AMP connectors underneath, so it will take some > > harness mods to use an RK11-D in it. > > Will it? Every RK11-D I've ever seen uses a paddleboard for power input > (it goes into one of the A connectors, the B connector below it is for a > KM11 maintenance board). I assumed the connections were standard. Mine had (it's now been donated to an 11/34 I traded) a backplane with a normal harness and a pair of AMP connectors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 4 17:48:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 4, 2 06:08:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1246 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/9e0e2027/attachment.ksh From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Mar 4 18:51:43 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s References: Message-ID: <00f601c1c3e0$e5190f80$8f469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > I'm also looking for someone who's had a lot of experience with Xyplex > > 1600 terminal servers, or even still has one in service. I've got one > > with the memory expansion, but no flash card to boot it from. I have > > what is supposed to be the latest firmware, but I can't seem to get it > > to boot properly. The image is tftp'd, and then the box seems to > > reboot again-- starts the self test over, and fetches the image again. > > This too has someone's old config set on it, which might be part of > > the problem. > > I can't say anything good about Xyplex ethernet gear made in the mid to > late 90s, but their terminal server units may be a little better. Xyplex > will still sell you the software for their terminal servers, but you won't > like the price. I have a dual floppy drive stored away somewhere for a > Xyplex terminal server. It is labeled as "bad", but I imagine it can be > repaired easily. This isn't the chassis-based stuff-- it's a 1U 16 RJ45 port term server, with a PCMCIA slot to hold the firmware flash card. It also will boot off the network, unfortunantly, it seems to look for it's firmware via tftp, mop, and a few others-- all at once. Confused the hell outta me for a while! If the sales fiction can be believed, it's pretty nice kit. With the firmware loaded, it speaks telnet, LAT, applewhatevertalk, and some others that I can't recall. What I really need to do is make a serial cable, and see if I can get anything outta the ports on the back. BTW, Xyplex got bought out a while ago. They're Nsomething now, and the last time I looked, I couldn't fiund anything on their new and disimproved web site. I also heard (but haven't asked myself) is that the support they offer is the standard service contract. Not what I want to pay for a $20 piece of hardware to manage my collection of electronic space heaters! :) > > -Toth Bob From pietstan at rogers.com Mon Mar 4 19:05:16 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Sources Message-ID: <3C8419CC.C79C6A99@rogers.com> I've got a road trip to Chicago, Illinois coming up in a few weeks... Are there any potential sources for DEC MicroVaxen / QBus / early Alpha bits in the area that merit checking?? Thanks.... Stan From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 4 19:15:42 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: <3C83C064.F8B5498F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip they could only afford > it for > things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main > frames. Yes, pretty expensive. I seem to remember from an 1968-ish catalog, seeing prices of a dollar or two for basic 7400 series TTL, like a 7410. The more complex chips (more than a few gates) were three or four dollars a pop. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 4 19:30:16 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: <002f01c1c3d5$1f0ed280$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: > FJH was the Valvo prefix > > http://www.elektron-bbs.de/elektronik/tabellen/ddr/digibiic.htm > > Like some of the Siemens stuff it could be kinda special slow TTL > intended for noisy industrial or automotive environments. Hmmm...Valvo. Thanks for the information. I have this weird side hobby of collecting early (pre 1972-ish, but mostly 60s) ICs, and was unaware that Valvo made 7400 TTL. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 4 19:42:33 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Software for X-10 Powerhouse CP290 computer interface In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 4, 2 10:46:45 am" Message-ID: <200203050142.RAA23046@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I found some technical info at: > > > > http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/discovery/ > > I have the manual that came with the unit. What I would like is the > software that they also sold (separately) for the Apple ][ and C64. Why didn't you say so? E-mail me off list, I have the C64 version. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Ah, the insight of hindsight. -- Thurston N. Davis ------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Mar 4 19:44:49 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Schematics of HP 9845b Message-ID: <191.33a19b9.29b57d11@aol.com> I have a 9845B in my storage locker, without monitor. I will see if I can get it out tomorrow. I could be talked into parting it out, whole or pieces. Contact me at whoagiii@aol.com for further information. Paxton Astoria, OR From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 4 19:58:46 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Write only programming References: Message-ID: <3C842656.D6A21065@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > If you write machine code rather than assembly language (I've > > > > done this a > > > > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > > > Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) > > > > B4 02 B2 44 EB 11 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 29 61 20 > > 63 6F 6D 6D 65 6E 74 CD 21 > > > > Or for the disassembly challenged: > > MOV AH, 2 > > MOV DL, 'D' > > JMP over > > DB 'This is a comment' > > over: INT 21h > > And you seriously think I've got enough space to do that in one of my > firmware ROMs ????? > > -tony You are right ... use 6 bit ascii characters. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 4 19:59:45 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: Message-ID: <001601c1c3e9$6cd0bce0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There are several versions of the '80x manual, but, unless I completely miss my guess, at least one of mine has pin 2 defined for RWC. Now, several of the implementation instructions for the old "radial" options use that same line, telling you to cut it free before using it for radial ready or radial index, or whatever. It would be really interesting to know which version of the drive the Intel folks intended to be used here. For most purposes, the RWC signal generated internally by the drive itself is perfectly adequate for detecting track 43, thereby freeing up the signal on pin 2, but only the later versions of the Shugart drives used that. The connection to pin 2 was removed from the doc's at about the time that they stopped using a negative supply, IIRC. Needless to say, it would be interesting to know whether this controller board even uses the head select signal that requisite for two-sided operation. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > 10 16 Track <43 (is this really track > 43 ???) >>My > > docs say "< 43" also. > > > > Shugart says that pin 16 is an "alternate I/O" connector and it can be > > used for whatever the manufacturer decides. I've checked and it does > > connect back to the drive controller. So it's something else that I have to > > investigate. > > Interestingly, The SA801 service manual I have makes no mention of any > track>43 or reduce write current input. So either Intel did something > very unconventional to the drive, or the line isn't really Track>43... > > Tracing the signal from the manual is hard because Intel are not > consistent about the pin numbering on connectors (in some cases, 2 mating > connectors have different pin numbering schemes), and they seem to have 2 > different conventions for the Blue Ribbon connectors _on the same > diagram_. But it does appear that the Track>43 signal on sheet 1 of the > interface board schematic really does end up on pin 16 of the drive. > > What's the part number on the SA801 logic board you have, and what (if > anything) is connected to the 'D' jumper? > > Incidentally, the 7485 comparator for the binary-coded drive select lines > is shown as 'customer installed option' in the SA801 manual. > > > -tony > > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Mar 4 20:03:52 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:03 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > And to stop this discussion: Wat a collector really needs is a truck > > > with at least 7,5t of loading capacity and a forklift. > > No ... what a collector really needs is not to live on the third > > floor.:) > > Why not? > That leaves TWO floors for mainframes and minis, with micros, terminals > and living quarters on the third. > > For a micro collector, and even small minis, a mommy-van is adequate. > Particularly if you were to add a trailer hitch and trailer and a > wheelchair style lift. I'm a mainframe collector. If I have parts of my collection on the second floor of the building in which I live, and there isn't an elevator, it will suck. I have several machines which would crush a minivan. Forklifts aren't really worth the effort. Give me a truck with a liftgate and a 20T GVW, and I'll be a happy man. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 4 20:09:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <3C842656.D6A21065@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > You are right ... use 6 bit ascii characters. I remember a fellow in the late 70s who told me that he put a hidden copyright message, AND SOME COMMENTS, in his executable file in Morse code in NOPs. Although Tony won't have room in his firmware, it did at least meet the fundamental requirement of being obfuscated to the point that few would realize they were there. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 4 20:10:11 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > For a micro collector, and even small minis, a mommy-van is adequate. > Particularly if you were to add a trailer hitch and trailer and a > wheelchair style lift. I do OK with a '78 Chrysler LeBaron wagon. It has been known to accomodate 3 IBM 7013-5xx desksides, a Sun 3/260, 2 6091-19 displays and a MicroTerm 425 all at once. Of course, I also needed a periscope to see over the hood going home. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 4 20:23:13 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > On 04-Mar-2002 Pat Finnegan wrote: > > Uhm, A hatch-back? Sort of like a car turned wanna-be SUV. > > As opposed to a SUV turned into a wannabe minivan, driven by a wannabe > "backroader". There were several years in which the Land Rover was (is?) the suburbanites' town car of choice. There are several million dollars worth of off-road British iron in this county that's never seen dirt. My little sister, who grew up riding dirtbikes, shooting 12-ga shotguns & chewing tobacco with her three brothers, got a Range Rover for her birthday a couple of years ago. She lives in El Paso, center of a HUGE unpopulated and unfenced desert. She sold the Rover 9 months later because her hubby had a conniption everytime she hopped a curb, and _once_ let her drive around a levelled, graded construction area in 4wd. Forget taking it into the desert. She bought a Miata, spent about the value of the Rover souping up the Miata, and now he just screams about the tickets.... I personally believe that a 2-wheel-drive long-wheel-base 3/4-ton pickup is the best ATV there is. Doc P.S. -- All of us grew out of the tobacco-chewing phase fairly early... From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 4 20:24:51 2002 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: What is the 'official' name? References: <20020303011050.Q28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C842C73.AF895BBD@bellsouth.net> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > What is the 'official' name of the thing we call 'rack-top panel', 'rack > header panel', 'maroon/red panel', 'logo panel', 'marquee', etc.? > >From the 11/70 drawings: D-IA-7010780-0-0 PANEL LOGO 11/70 D-IA-7010780-1-0 PANEL LOGO (BLANK) I guess "panel" is the official term. BTW: I'm looking for the second one. It is the one that would have been at the top of any cabinet other than the CPU in an 11/70 system. -- Doug Carman pdp11 at bellsouth dot net From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 4 20:30:21 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I do OK with a '78 Chrysler LeBaron wagon. It has been known to > accomodate 3 IBM 7013-5xx desksides, a Sun 3/260, 2 6091-19 displays and > a MicroTerm 425 all at once. Of course, I also needed a periscope to > see over the hood going home. I have a three year old Grand Caravan, and other than the door catch, it is quite nice for moving racks around. Two DEC 6 footers fit nicely. I once managed to cram two KS10s in it at one time. The real hauler is a simple (but not cheapie) flatbed trailer and a hitch. Most cars can tow at least 1500 pounds, so if you get (or rent) a nice flatbed, you can get 800-odd pounds off your rear axle with even a medium sedan. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Mar 4 20:35:25 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > This sounds suspiciously like a Shugart SA801 drive. Is there a label on > the drive chassis itself? If it is an SA801, what is the part number of > the PCB? Thanks! It is a Shugart 801. I thought I mentioned it in my email, but appartently, I didn't. I don't have the drive in front of me right now, but I'll grab the number off of it later. D on 1 of the drives (the first one) is in. One the second drive, the pin furtherest from the edge of the board is wire wrapped to the center pin of of the 3-pin DC. Does that make sense? So basically, there isn't any difference between the two drives in terms of addressing besides DS1 and DS2 jumpers. That means my problem is on the board on the bottom of the drive itself. And something tells me it will end up being an IC that I can't get a replacement for. The actuator that moves the head doesn't want to go back to track zero on power up. It vibrates back and forth about a couple of steps and then stops. I checked the stepper with an ohm meter, and board-swapped between the two drives. > Still assuming it's an SA801, then > > T1 = terminate head load line > (T2 = terminate drive select -- presumably fitted on both drives) > T3 = terminate step direction > T4 = terminate step pulse > T5 = terminate write data > T6 = terminate write gate > > D = connect pin 16 to in-use LED input > > The termination jumpers should be fitted in the last drive on the cable > only (no matter what it's ID is). I can't see why D would be set > differently on the 2 drives, though. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 4 20:35:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote: > > > > > On 04-Mar-2002 Hans H?bner wrote: > > > One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat > > > Variant, which you can see at > > > http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg > > > > That's what I would call a station wagon. Where were the SUVs of the 50s. > > For the historically inclinded, the "station" in "station wagon" were the > > buildings that were pretty far away on the ranch. > > > > -Philip > > The SUVs of the '50s were the Dodge Powerwagon series of vehicles, which > were direct descendants of some of the WWII military vehicles. I was privileged to help restore 2 military Korean-era PowerWagons a couple of years ago. Awesome machines. The REAL privilege was the final test drive -- across the Guadalupe River. No bridge. 4.5 feet of water. Glug. Doc From dadam at mn.rr.com Mon Mar 4 20:48:51 2002 From: dadam at mn.rr.com (dave adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi MP286L Message-ID: <000701c1c3f0$4dd29be0$5f00a8c0@mshome.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dbadam.vcf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020304/e42b561e/dbadam.obj From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Mar 4 21:16:21 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Xyplex, Raylan ?'s In-Reply-To: <00f601c1c3e0$e5190f80$8f469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > This isn't the chassis-based stuff-- it's a 1U 16 RJ45 port term > server, with a PCMCIA slot to hold the firmware flash card. It also > will boot off the network, unfortunantly, it seems to look for it's > firmware via tftp, mop, and a few others-- all at once. Confused the > hell outta me for a while! It makes sense that it is trying several means to find its software. I'd expect it to check the internal flash card, tftp, then mop. > If the sales fiction can be believed, it's pretty nice kit. With the > firmware loaded, it speaks telnet, LAT, applewhatevertalk, and some > others that I can't recall. What I really need to do is make a serial > cable, and see if I can get anything outta the ports on the back. > > BTW, Xyplex got bought out a while ago. They're Nsomething now, and > the last time I looked, I couldn't fiund anything on their new and > disimproved web site. I also heard (but haven't asked myself) is that > the support they offer is the standard service contract. Not what I > want to pay for a $20 piece of hardware to manage my collection of > electronic space heaters! :) I wasn't aware anyone bought out Xyplex, but it does not surprise me. Their technical support always was bad, and they would not supply manuals or software for older products without an expensive support contract. A little searching with Google turned up these urls for the 1600: http://www.conserver.com/consoles/xyplexcons.html http://www.gno.org/~gdr/xyplex/ http://www.itouchcom.com/support/documentation/tp/index.cfm http://www.itouchcom.com/support/documentation/tp/view.cfm?tp=flash_upgrade.cfm&print=no http://www.itouchcom.com/support/documentation/tp/view.cfm?tp=default1.cfm&print=no http://www.itouchcom.com/support/documentation/tp/view.cfm?tp=dtftp_1600.cfm&print=no Searching the sunhelp.org list archives turned up a few more tidbits: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Xyplex+1600+software&num=100&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=sunhelp.org&safe=off -Toth From tom at sba.miami.edu Mon Mar 4 21:18:23 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: MOP booting RT-11 Message-ID: Is it possible to boot RT-11 on an 11/23 via MOP? If so, can it be done over ethernet or does it have to be a serial line? How would loading drivers and program execution work? Thanks, Tom From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Mar 4 21:31:01 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) Message-ID: <20020304.214247.-86898369.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Aw, okay: Auf English-- 'Station Wagon'. And to think there was a time when I was *convinced* a 'Kombi' was a 'crew-cab' (four-door pickup truck). Then I surmised it was a van, or something similar (like a volkswagen bus, for example). Both wrong! I sure hope this is the last word on this, as I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:14:22 +0100 (CET) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?= writes: > One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat > Variant, > which you can see at > http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg > > -Hans > > -- > finger hans@huebner.org for > details > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Mar 4 21:33:19 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: MOP booting RT-11 Message-ID: <200203050333.WAA201950@shell.TheWorld.com> > Is it possible to boot RT-11 on an 11/23 via MOP? If so, can it >be done over ethernet or does it have to be a serial line? How would >loading drivers and program execution work? Network booting requires some knowledge of the network boot process by the OS you are trying to boot. RT has no knowledge of network booting, so although you may be able to download a primary boot image, there are no network device drivers (RT handlers) which have any code which could then load the secondary and tertiary bootstrap. I'm sure it could be made possible with a suitable development effort. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From kris at catonic.net Mon Mar 4 21:47:52 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Clipper Collectors? (Intergraph Interpro) Message-ID: Anyone on here collecting Intergraph Interpro workstations? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Mar 4 21:54:23 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Cente... Message-ID: <62.1bd5a064.29b59b6f@aol.com> Well, some of that stuff came from me, now it is moving across country. I suggest renting a 24' or 28' truck from a Farmer in Kansas. Or you might find one from an independent used truck dealer. Look for a cheap truck rental that doesn't go by mileage but weekly or monthly rates. Offer a farmer a lump sum. Ryder has two rates usually. One with a high daily charge and a low mileage rate, the other with a low daily rate and high mileage costs. Commercial accounts can be cheaper and they do issue discount coupons sometimes. At least the one in Portland, OR has. I have negotiated long distance rates PDX-LAX and back with Budget. We asked for a discount because of the high mileage the trip entailed and got one. I think this is up to the individual agencies though. If Jim has enough to fill a 24 foot truck then it will not fit in a trailer. If you have to rent a truck that has to go back, rent one in Kansas. One ways are considerably more expensive. Look for a company that has an imbalance of trucks in one place that matches your trip. Then you can negotiate a special rate. Good luck Jim and those helping. Paxton Astoria, OR From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 4 21:54:26 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to , Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <00d301c1c3f9$a86be1c0$628d70d8@default> Message-ID: > I used Budget most of the time and if you call 30 day or more in advance > and on a Sunday you get a discount on the everyday price. My last rental > from them was $1024 (without a trailer) most times it's close to $1200 > for 7 days and 1500 free miles for a one way rental. They way better > trucks than U-haul does and I have rented from them also. For the record, RCS/RI generally gets Ryder. I have used them as well, and they are much better than UHaul. I do not know how much stuff Jim has, or how much time either, but If I were in the same situation, I would bite the bullet and fly out to Oregon (the ticket might not be too bad if done in advance) and get a decent truck one-way. To save money, he (not sure if he is subscribed to the list) might get a smaller truck, then pack the remainders for a "partial load" shipment. There are carriers that will move things quite cheaply, but you might have to wait a month or two. When I remember thatname of the carrier (they are used by DoD quite a bit), I will post it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Mar 4 21:55:56 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? References: Message-ID: <00d301c1c3f9$a86be1c0$628d70d8@default> I used Budget most of the time and if you call 30 day or more in advance and on a Sunday you get a discount on the everyday price. My last rental from them was $1024 (without a trailer) most times it's close to $1200 for 7 days and 1500 free miles for a one way rental. They way better trucks than U-haul does and I have rented from them also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Cc: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 1:14 PM Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? > > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage > from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment > option for moving. > > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at > U-Haul, which is always a cheap solution, but he's stuck right now > hassling with them over some issues from a prior moves where the trucks > broke down (U-Haul trucks are deathtraps on wheels). > > There are a few other truck rental places we're going to try to get quotes > from (Ryder is asking around $1,500, we haven't checked Budget or Penske > yet), but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? > > Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the > truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he > rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. > Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one > way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would > be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he > can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 4 22:01:40 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics Pursuit Vehicle References: Message-ID: <016a01c1c3fa$74b2cdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> My choice would be the Volvo XC: http://new.volvocars.com/models/xc/images/cc_gallery_ext5_lrg.jpg Converted to a Spectrum Saloon Car. (That's Sedan in the US) http://members.tripod.com/chris_bishop_ca/img207.gif John A. Oops, doin' that OT thing. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 4 22:04:06 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Mar 04, 2002 07:14:29 PM Message-ID: <200203050404.g25446R05226@shell1.aracnet.com> > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at How many trips is he looking at? Has he already gotten the stuff he had in his house out there? He had enough stuff in the garage to probably fill a 24-foot truck, and that doesn't even cover what was in the house itself! Zane From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 4 22:18:24 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics Pursuit Vehicle Message-ID: <018801c1c3fc$cb937ca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> My choice would be the Volvo XC: http://new.volvocars.com/models/xc/images/cc_gallery_ext5_lrg.jpg Converted to a Spectrum Saloon Car. (That's Sedan in the US) http://members.tripod.com/chris_bishop_ca/img204.jpg (changed) John A. Oops, doin' that OT thing. From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Mar 4 22:26:08 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: OT: Netscape data files References: <20020303010113.I28832-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> <00ad01c1c2da$0f872a20$a103fea9@Moltres> <001901c1c2e1$ed891a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C8448E0.910033A@idirect.com> >Richard Erlacher wrote: > Though I don't use it myself, a friend, subject to the whims of the management > of QWEST, has been forced into using their somewhat customized Netscape > version. His system recently experienced a crash of some sort, resulting in > its becoming operational, though impaired by the fact the SCANDISK utility > reduced a number of directories from what they formerly were to the infamous > DIR000n where n is some number between 0 and 1FE or some such. The files > seem, apparently, to be in place, though the structure is lost. He wants me > to help him find his Netscape data files so he can recover his address book > and most recent emails from when he was using QWEST, which he doesn't any > longer. > Do any of you guys use Nestcape under Windows and know it well enough to know > which files contain these items? Internet Explorer knows how to import this > data from Netscape, but doesn't know how to search for the files. If I knew > the file names, I'd have no trouble, methinks. > Any "spiritual guidance" with respect to this problem would be appreciated. > thanks, > Dick Jerome Fine replies: You did not supply the operating system nor the version of Netscape. These are ESSENTIAL for any valid help, but if you are using W95/W98 and Netscape 4.XX (the following seems to apply to both V4.03 up to V4.78 of Netscape), then this may help. Next time, try and determine a bit of the Hardware and Operating System information. As David Jenner stated, the directories you normally need to look for are (numbers indicate a directory name and sub-level in the directory tree): 1-Program Files 2-Netscape 3-Communicator (needed files not in this directory) 3-Users 4-name-of-the-user (normally) 5-Mail InBox (text of the messages) InBox.smn (index of the messages) Other-File-Names Other-File-Names.smn The files are always in pairs. From my observation, there are also a few other files in the "name-of-the-user" directory which I don't know much about. In Windows 98, I have found that multiple "name-of-user" directories are allowed. I will shortly be upgrading to that environment, so anyone who has any questions, I may be able to help with my experience in respect of the upgrade AND with how I use "Multiple User IDs" with a common "Mail" directory for all of them. A separate "Mail" directory for each User ID is the normal case, so if that is what you want, it is usually set up all by itself by default. Having one common "Mail" directory took me several days to figure out and implement. If there are any more questions about V4.78 of Netscape, I may be able to help a bit. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Mon Mar 4 22:29:39 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) Message-ID: <200203050429.AA13381@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > From: "Jay West" > To: > Subject: Re: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) > Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:06:04 -0600 > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives > for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand. > But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue > picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front. > Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be > obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns > on the drive or a glass reticule? They look like DEC RK03's to me. Predecessor to the RK05, and actually re-badged drives from some other manufacturer, the name of which escapes me at the moment. RK05's used a glass reticule for positioning. I think that on-disk format tracks came with the first "Winchester" sealed drives. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 4 22:30:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304.214247.-86898369.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I sure hope this is the last word on this, as > I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . Awww. But nobody's gotten even _close_ to Godwin's Law.... Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 4 22:43:53 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates References: <200203050404.g25446R05226@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3C844D09.FB354AD4@jetnet.ab.ca> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at > > How many trips is he looking at? Has he already gotten the stuff he had > in his house out there? He had enough stuff in the garage to probably > fill a 24-foot truck, and that doesn't even cover what was in the house > itself! I say buy a used school bus that is converted to a camper. 1) You can go camping 2) You can move the stuff 3) You have place to live after you moved the stuff. It is too bad one can't share the truck and have the truck move across the country with computers. There must be a lot of computers on the east and west coasts that have to move inland and from one side of the country to the other. Too bad you can't ship rail anymore. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jss at subatomix.com Mon Mar 4 23:37:53 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020304233005.Y31900-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer > Garage from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best > equipment option for moving. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. (0) If you use a trailer, you had better watch the weather forecast. We're beginning the severe storm season in this part of the country. Finding a long, dry period may be difficult. (1) Most truck rental agencies only rent lift-gate trucks round trip. (2) Trucks will provide more bracing and/or places to tie rope to. (3) If you get a truck, don't forget the insurance. (4) Also, don't run a strict schedule. Things will go wrong. (5) U-haul AFAIK does not have lift-gate trucks. (6) Have two people. Switch off driving duty every 3 hours. Bring an ice chest and supplies to make meals as you drive. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 00:04:18 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to , Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <20020304233005.Y31900-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: > (0) If you use a trailer, you had better watch the weather forecast. > We're beginning the severe storm season in this part of the country. > Finding a long, dry period may be difficult. If things need to go on an unprotected trailer (big things, not lots of little boxes), industrial shrinkwrap will make a very nice, weatherproof caccoon. The trick is to use a *lot* of shrinkwrap (AT LEAST 8 layers in all spots) and lots of good tape when the wrapping is done (tape does not do much for the weatherproofing, it is more for holding the shrinkwrap together while driving). This caccoon is good for several weeks, at least, but I recommend that it be removed as soon as possible. I have moved dozens of large things on my flatbed, all tucked-up in shrinkwrap, and have never had a problem - even in poring rain and snow. It also keeps all of the loose nuts and bolts that rattle around on the trailer, and not the Interstate. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 00:33:31 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Penske's always a good bet. Their trucks are superbly maintained, and I've hauled multiple tons of computer goodies in them. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:14:29 +0000 (UTC) > From: Vintage Computer Festival > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Cc: jimw@agora.rdrop.com > Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, > OR to Yates Center, KS? > > > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage > from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment > option for moving. > > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at > U-Haul, which is always a cheap solution, but he's stuck right now > hassling with them over some issues from a prior moves where the trucks > broke down (U-Haul trucks are deathtraps on wheels). > > There are a few other truck rental places we're going to try to get quotes > from (Ryder is asking around $1,500, we haven't checked Budget or Penske > yet), but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? > > Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the > truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he > rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. > Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one > way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would > be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he > can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 00:50:06 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304.214247.-86898369.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I sure hope this is the last word on this, as > I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . You mean fahrvergnugen? Peace... Sridhar From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 5 01:03:34 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to , Yates Cen... Message-ID: <103.1191d917.29b5c7c6@aol.com> Besides shrinkwrap, which is excellent for holding doors closed and drives in cabinets, I would recommend that one buy a large roll of large bubble wrap at Carton Services on 33XX Front Street in Portland. 2 foot wide by 250 feet, perfed on 1 foot, is $56.00. 4'X250' is about $85. I like perfed because it is easy to rip off the length you want. Great protection for monitors. I have no interest in the company. I use it because I like it and it gets equipment to their destination. Beaverton is close to Portland. Also use cardboard panels between cabinets, saves the paint. I bet with careful shopping one could buy a truck in Oregon and sell it for more in Kansas. Oregon is economically distressed at the moment and I think you could find a cheap truck. You would want to find out what is in demand in Kansas first. It would be a lot more work. I know people who have done this for moves. It works. Boy, how far OT can I get. Paxton From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 01:09:18 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <20020304233005.Y31900-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > Garage from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best > > equipment option for moving. > > > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > (0) If you use a trailer, you had better watch the weather forecast. > We're beginning the severe storm season in this part of the country. > Finding a long, dry period may be difficult. Unless you know how to drive a trailer in a rainstorm. Some of us do. > (2) Trucks will provide more bracing and/or places to tie rope to. A lot of the heavier equipment out there will break the strapping on a rental truck. > (4) Also, don't run a strict schedule. Things will go wrong. Definitely. Things *will* go wrong. > (6) Have two people. Switch off driving duty every 3 hours. Bring an ice > chest and supplies to make meals as you drive. I tend to stop a lot (every 300 miles or so) on long (1000+ mi.) treks. Peace... Sridhar From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 5 01:21:17 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates In-Reply-To: <200203050404.g25446R05226@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > How many trips is he looking at? Has he already gotten the stuff he had > in his house out there? He had enough stuff in the garage to probably > fill a 24-foot truck, and that doesn't even cover what was in the house > itself! As far as I know, the only thing left to move is the one storage unit in Beaverton, which Jim said should take one trip with a 24' truck. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From hans at Huebner.ORG Tue Mar 5 01:21:24 2002 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305082039.J53115-100000@mail.huebner.org> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > I sure hope this is the last word on this, as > > I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . > > You mean fahrvergnugen? He means Fahrvergn?gen (or Fahrvergnuegen for the Umlaut-imparied) :) -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From jss at subatomix.com Tue Mar 5 01:26:08 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305011828.L31900-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > (2) Trucks will provide more bracing and/or places to tie rope to. > > A lot of the heavier equipment out there will break the strapping on a > rental truck. Right. Don't tie huge cabinets off with one rope. Use very liberal amounts of rope, and tie off in as many places as you can to distribute the force. Know how to tie good knots like the bowline, and tie rope as tightly as possible. Pad cabinets (see below) where rope makes corners; this protects both the cabinet and the rope. Another suggestion. Go to Home Depot or an equivalent store and purchase many rolls of carpet padding. It tears easily into decently regular shapes, and is not totally resistant to packing tape. It is also reusable. Before you tie up cabinets, use packing tape to hang sheets of carpet padding over the sides of cabinets. If you're short on padding, just pad the parts of cabinets that touch other things. Carpet padding also makes nice mats for smaller things like RL02 drives, etc. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From wilby98 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 01:59:35 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: ; from vcf@vintage.org on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:14:29PM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20020305085935.B15337@xs4all.nl> I think from a cost point of view, the trailer is the best option. You are not paying by the mile and you don't have to be in a great hurry to get it back after you reach your destination. A suburban is an ideal tow vehicle. If you need more room then I would arrange an additional car/trailer combo and run a mini "convoy". Make sure and have a cb radio in both vehicles so you can chat. Kinda fun, don't you think? On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 07:14:29PM +0000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage > from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment > option for moving. > <> -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 5 03:21:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > Also, to keep things on topic, does BART still use any PDP-8 systems? I > read someplace, probably a few years ago now, that they used PDP-8s for > their control systems. They were supposedly all replaced in the early 1990s. My guess is that they may have some systems still warehoused. I used to see this one guy at the local hamfests who was the scruffiest, grungiest, most unpleasant looking throwback from the early 1970s you'd ever laid eyes on, who I was told supposedly was a computer technician for BART. So one day I asked him about the PDP-8s and he said they were long gone (this was probably in 1999 or thereabouts). I related this story to a fellow collector who speculated that this guy may not want people to know there are still PDP-8s somewhere in BART storage, which is a good point. I knew the guy who re-designed the software for the marquees at the stations in the early 1990s, and he said he they were driven by PDP-8 systems. So who knows :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 06:16:36 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > It is too bad one can't share the truck and have the truck move > across the country with computers. There must be a lot of computers > on the east and west coasts that have to move inland and from one > side of the country to the other. Too bad you can't ship rail anymore. You can, it's just that they've unfortunately ripped-up all the old rail in order to create greenbelts... I'm lucky that I've got a mixed-use railhead near my home (freight and newly-restored Amtrack service), but I'd still need a step-van or flatbed to bring it that last mile... -dq From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 06:48:21 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > It is too bad one can't share the truck and have the truck move > > across the country with computers. There must be a lot of computers > > on the east and west coasts that have to move inland and from one > > side of the country to the other. Too bad you can't ship rail anymore. > > You can, it's just that they've unfortunately ripped-up all the > old rail in order to create greenbelts... I'm lucky that I've > got a mixed-use railhead near my home (freight and newly-restored > Amtrack service), but I'd still need a step-van or flatbed to > bring it that last mile... How do you go about convincing a rail carrier to take a shipment which is less than a full rail car? Peace... Sridhar From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Mar 5 06:49:28 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: MOP booting RT-11 References: Message-ID: <3C84BED8.66784882@idirect.com> >Tom Leffingwell wrote: > Is it possible to boot RT-11 on an 11/23 via MOP? If so, can it > be done over ethernet or does it have to be a serial line? How would > loading drivers and program execution work? > Thanks, > Tom Jerome Fine replies: In line with the reply from Megan, RT-11 is just not set up to do this automatically. Plus you would also need to acquire an ether net card, although that would probably not be as expensive as a Qbus SCSI host adapter. You are thinking of advanced systems like VMS and a PC based operation which uses ether net all the time. Have you been able to get first dibs on that host adapter from the Vax system? Do you know the make of that host adapter? CMD, Viking, DEC? Also the actual model number? In lieu of a SCSI host adapter, have you considered an ESDI controller? And how long will you be using the PDP-11 in total? I would suggest trying to use the E11 emulator, but you can't because of the modules which are not emulated. Again, if you do get a SCSI host adapter and need to have RT-11 loaded on a SCSI hard drive, I can do the job - unless there is someone close to you in the US that will instead - I am in Toronto. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 06:55:31 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 16 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Mike- Is that Model 16 you're selling the Xenix-capable dual-CPU (Z80 & 68K) machine? Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 07:23:54 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 16 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A660@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Oops, meant to be private.... :( > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:56 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: TRS-80 Model 16 > > > Mike- > > Is that Model 16 you're selling the Xenix-capable > dual-CPU (Z80 & 68K) machine? > > Regards, > -dq > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Mar 5 07:34:44 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64700.128.146.70.178.1015335284.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > >> > It is too bad one can't share the truck and have the truck move >> > across the country with computers. There must be a lot of computers >> > on the east and west coasts that have to move inland and from one >> > side of the country to the other. Too bad you can't ship rail >> > anymore. >> >> You can, it's just that they've unfortunately ripped-up all the >> old rail in order to create greenbelts... I'm lucky that I've >> got a mixed-use railhead near my home (freight and newly-restored >> Amtrack service), but I'd still need a step-van or flatbed to >> bring it that last mile... > > How do you go about convincing a rail carrier to take a shipment which > is less than a full rail car? Uhhh.... Pay for a full rail car? :) > > Peace... Sridhar Bob From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Mar 5 07:35:29 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Quantum Fireball CX IDE drive failure In-Reply-To: References: <200203041744.JAA13768@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020305073529.00af54d0@ubanproductions.com> A friend of mine has a 10.0gig Quantum IDE disk drive which has had a drive electronics failure. He is looking for another duplicate drive from which he can borrow the drive electronics in order to recover the data from the original drive. The exact drive information is: Quantum Fireball CX The number on the cricuit board is 10.2AT P/N CX10A013 Rev 02-B All he really needs is the circuit board. The HDA can be trash. --tnx --tom From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 5 07:39:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates In-Reply-To: <3C844D09.FB354AD4@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200203050404.g25446R05226@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020305083920.00801210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:43 PM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote: >> >> > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at >> Check with a trucking company and see how much they'd charge just to haul a load after you pack and load it. A friend of mine recently moved from Orlando to Northern NY state and took a **complete** machine shop with him. The moving companies wanted a fortune (~$100,000) to move it and it would have taken at least half a dozen large U-haul trucks. He talked to a local trucking company and made deal with them just to haul the stuff after we packed and loaded it. We had already packed most of the tooling a such into crates and strapped them onto pallets ahead of time but the really big stuff, such as the 16" x 5 foot (bed size!) lathe had to be loaded directly into the turck. The company brought out a ~58 foot trailor and parked it next to his place on Friday. When loading day came (Saturday) my friend rented a three wheel forklift with ballon tires (we were working out of a yard and an open field so there was no pavement). We used the forklift to load all the pallets and then the machines. We got everything loaded in about 6 hours. The truckers came back two days later (Monday) and picked up the trailor and took it straight to NY. It arrived less than 24 hours after it left his place. In NY they had a garage with a paved driveway to put it into and a forklift there and waiting when the truck arrived. They had everything unloaded and the truck was out of there in less than a hour. IIRC my buddy paid the trucking company $1800 to haul the load. As it turned out, it was a bargain! Everything arrived intact and he had zero problems with the move itself. A moving company would have kept the stuff around while they tried to combine loads and such and invariably something what have been lost or stolen. I know a 58' truck doesn't sound that much bigger than a 24' truck but it will haul a LOT more! First, it's designed to carry 60,000 pounds or more and not 6,000 like a U-haul truck. Plus the body is a lot wider, our's was slightly over 8 feet wide instead of the <6' for a U-Haul. Plus the ceiling is MUCH higher. I don't know exacly how tall the big trailor was but it was well over 8'. Finally, the driver is a trained and professional truck driver so you don't have to try and learn how to drive it as you go! And that also leaves you free to drive your own automobile to your destination. My buddy was going to have to ship one auto. I think the charge for that alone was a much as the truck cost. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 5 07:50:19 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <002b01c1c3d4$b029d860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020305085019.00802100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:31 PM 3/4/02 -0700, Richard wrote: >I'd advise you to pursue this from the controller end, initially. Good idea. Unfortunately the card connector is numbered 1-100 with odd numbers on one side and even one the other (exactly same as S-100). But it's connector is numbered A1 through A50 on one side and B1 through B50 on the other. It makes things confusing! It's not something that you should do when you're tired! If you see >that a line normally not connected between the controller and drive is driven >at the controller, or, just as importantly, is received in some meaningful way >at the controller, then you can, perhaps, by looking at the drive manual for >the SA80x type, figure out what they might have had in mind. I'd advise you >to start with the head select signal, since there's an even chance they didn't >even support two-sided drives. They don't. > >In any case, if you examine the user-installable options, of which there are >several, in the 80x manual, you'll probably be able to figure out what the >Intel folks had in mind with their odd connections. Once you've figured out >what the desired options on the SS drive are, you look in the manuual for the >85x drives and set up the corresponding options. That's my plan. As I said before, however, >first you need to establish whether the Intel controller even supports the >two-sided drives. I don't believe I ever saw an M2FM arrangement on a >two-sided drive, not that it's complicated in any way. True but I don't think any of the intels ever supported it. At least on the 8" drives. I have three intel drives, a MDS 2DS single density unit for the early MDS 800, a MDS DDS double density unit that goes with the later MDS 888 and a MDS 720 (DD) that with the Series II and Series III machines and all of them use single sided Shugart 800 drives. Joe From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 07:55:32 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11 /34) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used to surprise everyone with my MGB-GT. It could haul more than a Chrysler LeBaron. On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > For a micro collector, and even small minis, a mommy-van is adequate. > > Particularly if you were to add a trailer hitch and trailer and a > > wheelchair style lift. > > I do OK with a '78 Chrysler LeBaron wagon. It has been known to > accomodate 3 IBM 7013-5xx desksides, a Sun 3/260, 2 6091-19 displays and > a MicroTerm 425 all at once. Of course, I also needed a periscope to > see over the hood going home. > > Doc > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 5 08:00:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020305090003.00806a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:26 PM 3/4/02 +0000, you wrote: >> >> >> >> At 07:58 PM 3/4/02 +0000, Tony wrote: >> > >> >I happen to have the 'Intellec Series II Microcomputer Development System >> >Double-Density Diskette Subsystem Schematic Drawings' here. (Phew, what a >> >title). I am not sure if this is the same unit that you have, but it >> >might provide some information. Unfortunately, I don't have any >> >information on the drives themselves -- there are no schematics or link >> >settings given. I do have info on the 2 multibus cards (controller), the >> >PSU, and the cabling. >> >> I have that manual for both the MDS 720 drive (two drives laying >> horizontally and using a double density controller) and for the older MS >> 2DS system (two drives mounted vertically and using the single density > >There also seems to be a double density system using the controller from >the later system (same pair of mulitbus cards) but the older drive >cabinet (drives standing vertically. I have that on my MDS800. Right. That's a MDS DDS (that's what mine is marked). The older one is a MDS-2DS. > >> controller) and NEITHER of them says one word about the drives! It's > >That's quite common, actually. Most of the time the drives are standard >units with their own manuals. Often the complete documentation set for >the device includes the service/technical manual for the drive. I can understand that but I'd think that they would at least give the jumper/strap/cuts needed to configure the drive for their system. Actually I preferr the old way of documentation where they gave you the OEM manufacturer's manuals. They're a lot more complete than the abbreviated versions that they usually include in the manuals. > >For example, I have the manual for the floppy disk system for the Philips >P851 (etc). The Philips manual covers the controller (schematics, >microcode source, etc) and the drive PSU. There's a separate CDC manual >for the floppy drives. I think there's a commant somewhere in the Philips >manual saying what version of the drive is used and how to set the links. I just bought a Fluke 1722 service manual and was pleasantly surprised to find complete copy of the Ball manual for the monitor and a complete Tandon manual for the disk drive. Those alone made the package worthwhile. > >> amazing to me that intel would go to the level of detail that they do but >> completely ignore the drives! >> >> >> J1 P1 >> (cable) (drive) >> Odd # Odd # Ground >> 2 46 Read Data >> 4 2 Not used (or even connected?) >> Not connected >> 6 42 Track 0 >> 8 20 Index >> 10 16 Track <43 (is this really track > 43 ???) >>My >> docs say "< 43" also. >> >> Shugart says that pin 16 is an "alternate I/O" connector and it can be >> used for whatever the manufacturer decides. I've checked and it does > >Sure, and it appears Intel used it for Reduce Write Current or similar. > >> I don't think you need to worry about that. The controller seems to use a >> 1-of-n active low drive select scheme (2 DS lines per drive cabinet >> cable), so you can just link each wire to a particular drive's active DS >> line. >> >> That's what I thought but I suspect there may be more to these. Shugart >> had some odd options available like "seek without selecting a drive" and > >It's not going to use that, if only because the drive signals are bussed >together as normal. Step and Direction do not go to each drive >individually. Look at the schematics of the controller card. In just about >every case the outputs (controller to drive) carry exactly the same >signals for the 2 drive cabinet connectors (there's typically a pair of >drivers with exactly the same inputs signals). The inputs (drive to >controller) are logically ORed for the 2 cabinets (often by '132s -- >remember the drive signals are active low). So just about all signals >must be gated by the drive select line. > >My guess is that ready is _not_ gated by DS. That's why there's a separate >wire for each drive ready line back to the cotnroller, linking them to a >'153 mux. > >> "seek without loading the head" and this may be using one of those and that > >Interestingly there doesn't seem to be a head load signal on the signal >adapter PCB, so possibly it uses head-load-on-select or similar. > >> may explain why they did it this way. Agreed. Joe From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 08:01:13 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gunther Schadow suggested Penske to me for our Madison move, and the base rate on a 25 footer was about 300 dollars cheaper than U-Haul.I haven't had any problems with U-Haul equipment out here at all.Sometimes it's a little beat, but usually seems to run well. Penske's truck was a Gas GMC, and it had no air brakes. Try and get a diesel air braked job. The gas trucks are very thirsty and they don't like to stop. Mileage is unlimited on one ways with Penske also. On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage > from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment > option for moving. > > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at > U-Haul, which is always a cheap solution, but he's stuck right now > hassling with them over some issues from a prior moves where the trucks > broke down (U-Haul trucks are deathtraps on wheels). > > There are a few other truck rental places we're going to try to get quotes > from (Ryder is asking around $1,500, we haven't checked Budget or Penske > yet), but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? > > Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the > truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he > rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. > Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one > way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would > be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he > can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 08:04:39 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) In-Reply-To: <20020304.214247.-86898369.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: Not a shooting brake? ;) On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Aw, okay: Auf English-- 'Station Wagon'. > > And to think there was a time when I was > *convinced* a 'Kombi' was a 'crew-cab' > (four-door pickup truck). > > Then I surmised it was a van, or something > similar (like a volkswagen bus, for example). > > Both wrong! > > I sure hope this is the last word on this, as > I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . > > > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:14:22 +0100 (CET) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?= > writes: > > One of the classic "Kombi" style german cars is the Volkswagen Passat > > Variant, > > which you can see at > > http://www.autobischof.ch/autobischof-vw-passat-variant-600x359.jpg > > > > -Hans > > > > -- > > finger hans@huebner.org for > > details > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 5 08:36:10 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:04 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C84D7DA.76DFFC5A@internet1.net> Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is it a national trend? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > You can, it's just that they've unfortunately ripped-up all the > old rail in order to create greenbelts... I'm lucky that I've > got a mixed-use railhead near my home (freight and newly-restored > Amtrack service), but I'd still need a step-van or flatbed to > bring it that last mile... > > -dq From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Mar 5 08:41:21 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Symbolics transport (was: Re: Getting Unix to run on a PDP-11/34) Message-ID: <20020305.085308.-601361.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:21:24 +0100 (CET) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?= writes: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > > > I sure hope this is the last word on this, as > > > I'm not experiencing Farfignugen here folks . . . > > > > You mean fahrvergnugen? > > He means Fahrvergn|gen (or Fahrvergnuegen for the Umlaut-imparied) > :) > > -Hans Ya! Ya! Danke shoen! (Okay, I flunked 1st year German. So sue me. :^) Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 5 08:46:11 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020305085019.00802100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1c454$801bff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > At 04:31 PM 3/4/02 -0700, Richard wrote: > >I'd advise you to pursue this from the controller end, initially. > > Good idea. Unfortunately the card connector is numbered 1-100 with odd > numbers on one side and even one the other (exactly same as S-100). But > it's connector is numbered A1 through A50 on one side and B1 through B50 on > the other. It makes things confusing! It's not something that you should > do when you're tired! > Agreed ... I'm having a little trouble with that one myself ... there are only 25 pairs on the cable. What do they do with the numbers greater than 25 on one side and 50 on the other? Perhaps you'll want to give up on using th '85x's on the Intel box and use 80x's instead. There will be a cleaner path for you to follow, though, clearly, it won't be totally obvious. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 09:04:59 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A666@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that > happening. Is it a national trend? Of course, I'm aware of it primarily through local examples, but the local newspapers have run articles about how this is happening throughout the nation.... the midwest probably has more miles ot track to rip up, though... Recently, efforts have been underway to try to reclaim some abandoned right-of-way and use it to create light rail (i.e. trolley) lines... Once upon a time, there was a B&O spur that ran in front of the home I lived in as a child (not far from here)... Dad and I would walk one direction as far as the floodwall, and the other direction usually only as far as a small drug store that sold hot mixed nuts. Remember hot mixed nuts, hot peanuts, etc? Just a short walk further (which we never did) you'd find the coal company who used to deliver the coal by which we used to heat that house (did a natural gas conversion in '64 just before we moved out). But all that line is not greeway, replete with joggers... :( -dq From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 09:14:36 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: <3C84D7DA.76DFFC5A@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > it a national trend? The rail's being ripped out all over the place. More than half of the rail freight carriers in the U.S. went under in the 1970's. PEace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 5 09:22:35 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates References: Message-ID: <3C84E2BB.AF0FFE39@jetnet.ab.ca> Julius Sridhar wrote: > How do you go about convincing a rail carrier to take a shipment which is > less than a full rail car? Well at one time, you packed things in crates and they filled the cars. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 5 09:23:55 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates Message-ID: <001c01c1c459$c4bc6920$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Chad Fernandez >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is >it a national trend? Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. A big waste if you ask me. Allison From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 09:36:04 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A667@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > But all that line is not greeway, replete with joggers... But all that line is *now* greenway.... , gotta learn to type... From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Mar 5 09:41:51 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: Most of these abandonments were in the 60's into the 80's. Railroads are doing quite well now (except for Union Pacific, which f****ed up royally trying to merge computer systems from its too-many and too-fast acquisitions), and it's the trucking companies that are crying. Trivia: the first "rail-to-trail" conversion (dq's greenways with joggers) was here near Chicago -- the Illinois Prairie Path, which converted the Chicago, Aurora and Elgin interurban right-of-way, abandoned in 1961, into a bike path in the mid-1960's. (How --why?-- do I know this? My daughter is doing a school history fair project on it :-) ). There are some groups trying to revive the Chicago, North Shore, and Milwaukee r.o.w. as an alternative to a 3rd airport in Chicago. The idea is to build a high speed rail link from downtown Chicago to Mitchell Field in Milwaukee. Bob P.S. to Sridhar. How do you ship partial boxcars of goods? Easy, it's called "LCL" freight (less-than-car-load). -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:05 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that > happening. Is it a national trend? Of course, I'm aware of it primarily through local examples, but the local newspapers have run articles about how this is happening throughout the nation.... the midwest probably has more miles ot track to rip up, though... Recently, efforts have been underway to try to reclaim some abandoned right-of-way and use it to create light rail (i.e. trolley) lines... Once upon a time, there was a B&O spur that ran in front of the home I lived in as a child (not far from here)... Dad and I would walk one direction as far as the floodwall, and the other direction usually only as far as a small drug store that sold hot mixed nuts. Remember hot mixed nuts, hot peanuts, etc? Just a short walk further (which we never did) you'd find the coal company who used to deliver the coal by which we used to heat that house (did a natural gas conversion in '64 just before we moved out). But all that line is not greeway, replete with joggers... :( -dq From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Mar 5 09:44:02 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A666@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > But all that line is [now greenway], replete with joggers... Better greenway than highway. I do wish more light rail would be put into use here in the US. Having spent a few years in Los Angeles, I'm very much convinced that our cities would benefit from improved public transportation systems. Also, to keep things on topic, does BART still use any PDP-8 systems? I read someplace, probably a few years ago now, that they used PDP-8s for their control systems. -brian. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 5 09:53:49 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Message-ID: <20020305074056.D29993-100000@agora.rdrop.com> ...and yes, I do read the list. B^} * Recently, Zane wrote: > How many trips is he looking at? One. more is really not an option. > Has he already gotten the stuff he had in his house out there? Yes... that was the first three 26' trucks and a 28' semi-trailer. (A major contributing factor to the cash crunch) > He had enough stuff in the garage to probably fill a 24-foot truck, > and that doesn't even cover what was in the house itself! Probably a good time for a brief outline, since I've been rather quiet over the last few months. Currently what resides in Oregon are the (physically) larger (and most significant IMHO) components of the Computer Garage collection. The PDP8 and PDP11 systems, the VAX 11/780, and various boxes of supporting equipment and documentation. Overall, about 16 to 18 six foot tall DEC racks of gear, plus the boxed items, and various unknowns stuffed in there by the (supposedly helping) relatives after I departed. By numbers, I would say that apx. 60% to 70% of the overall collection made the move with me. The remaining items are sitting in a 10'x 20' space, so should fit into a single (large) truck. One with a lift gate hopefully... More of the story later... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Mar 5 10:01:20 2002 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: Message-ID: <3C84EBD0.2080607@mainecoon.com> Brian Chase wrote: > Also, to keep things on topic, does BART still use any PDP-8 systems? > I read someplace, probably a few years ago now, that they used PDP-8s > for their control systems. BART never used PDP-8's as part of the _train_ control system. That task was originally delegated to a set of Westinghouse machines, with separate control processors for the maintenance yard. That proved to be unworkable almost immediately, which resulted in a new architecture from the LBL RTSG that stuck trackside block-control processors into the system and then restricted headways such that only one train could occupy a block at a time. This had a _major_ impact on system capacity, since BART was designed to be "semi-blockless", in the sense that multiple trains were supposed to be able to occupy each block since the system was going to have absolute knowledge of where each train was at any given moment. Logica was contracted sometime in the late 80's to create a new centralized control system which was rumored to be based on DG MV series machines. I have no idea where that effort ever went (other than grossly overbudget). Oh, and the PDP-8's? They were rumored to have run the annuciator system and, in some cases, station environmental controls. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Mar 5 10:03:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Write only programming Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A7B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > few time...) then again there's no way to include comments... > > Sure there is -- just don't run them ;) > B4 02 B2 44 EB 11 54 68 69 73 20 69 73 29 61 20 > 63 6F 6D 6D 65 6E 74 CD 21 > Or for the disassembly challenged: > MOV AH, 2 > MOV DL, 'D' > JMP over > DB 'This is a comment' > over: INT 21h In fact, that appears to be precisely what I had in mind. The obvious problem being that it takes up space in the image... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 10:08:12 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to In-Reply-To: <20020305074056.D29993-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: > Currently what resides in Oregon are the (physically) larger > (and most significant IMHO) components of the Computer Garage collection. > The PDP8 and PDP11 systems, the VAX 11/780, and various boxes of supporting > equipment and documentation. Overall, about 16 to 18 six foot tall DEC > racks of gear, plus the boxed items, and various unknowns stuffed in there > by the (supposedly helping) relatives after I departed. I think weight is more of an issue than space. That pile might tip the scale over the 10000 pound mark. Big truck. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 5 10:25:09 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: <3C84D7DA.76DFFC5A@internet1.net> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A65D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <3C84D7DA.76DFFC5A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <02Mar5.182453est.119321@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is >it a national trend? There are a number of old railroad beds on the east coast that have been converted into hiking trails. It looks like privately owned short-haul rail lines are making a minor comeback though and putting some of the rail to use that would've otherwise been pulled up. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Mar 5 10:25:23 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <000d01c1c454$801bff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020305085019.00802100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020305112523.007ff100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:46 AM 3/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >see below, plz. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 6:50 AM >Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > >> At 04:31 PM 3/4/02 -0700, Richard wrote: >> >I'd advise you to pursue this from the controller end, initially. >> >> Good idea. Unfortunately the card connector is numbered 1-100 with odd >> numbers on one side and even one the other (exactly same as S-100). But >> it's connector is numbered A1 through A50 on one side and B1 through B50 on >> the other. It makes things confusing! It's not something that you should >> do when you're tired! >> > >Agreed ... I'm having a little trouble with that one myself ... there are only >25 pairs on the cable. There are (or can be) 100 wires per cable. What do they do with the numbers greater than 25 on >one side and 50 on the other? There are 50 contacts per side. All the odd numbered wires are on the A side and all the even numbered ones are on the B side. But here's one place that it gets very weird, A1 is pin 99 and A50 is pin 1 !!! The same thing happens on the B side, B1 is pin 100 and B50 is pin 2! I came up with a couple of formulas to help figure out the wire numbers. Wire # for contact Ax is (51-x)*2 and the wire # for contact Bx is ((51-x)*2)-1. I *think* that's right! it was late when I was working on it. > >Perhaps you'll want to give up on using th '85x's on the Intel box and use >80x's instead. There will be a cleaner path for you to follow, though, >clearly, it won't be totally obvious. I would use 800s if I had any but it seems like all I can find are 85xs :-/ I've got two extra 800s but they've been out in the weather and they look nasty! Joe > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 5 10:25:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A66A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > There are some groups trying to revive the Chicago, North Shore, and > Milwaukee r.o.w. as an alternative to a 3rd airport in Chicago. The idea is > to build a high speed rail link from downtown Chicago to Mitchell Field in > Milwaukee. CSX (Chessie, PennRR, NYCentral, etc) abandoned significant local right-of-way, which provided a local opportunity that couldn't be passed up. Now we have a local RR company who uses the red keystone as its logo (the line was originally PennRR). They're doing pretty well, too... -dq From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 5 10:46:45 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home Message-ID: <042d01c1c465$55fefdc0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> After much consideration, I've decided to try to find a new home for my PDP10 KL-10E. I'm trying to get my collection size down to a more manageable state and concentrate on my PDP11s, Vaxen and Crays. Right now, I simply don't have the means to house and power the machine, and would rather see it go to someone that does. I've not yet decided if I will ask money for it (I've already invested thousands in purchase, shipping and storage costs over the last 5 years), trade for some PDP11's or just offer it for free to a good deserving keeper. Other interesting trades like an S/390s, Cray EL's, J90s etc also considered. Please realize that it's not a turnkey system. It lacks disk drives, so something will have to be done in that regard - either interfacing more modern drives or getting some massbus drives (18 bit set PDP11 drives etc). It does have the complete PDP11/40 front end system, RHs and 2x NIAs. The cabinets will have to be reconnected and the system tested and brought up in an orderly manner by someone familiar with this class of machine. Shipping will be the responsibility of the receiver- 4 wide cabs - ~700lbs each? Should go by air ride and crated if not carefully hand packed/tied to a truck/trailer. System is located in Canada approx. 2 hrs from Windsor-Detroit or 1 hr from Niagara Falls Buffalo. Preference given to millionaires able to afford to keep it running 24x7 and provide free online public accounts ;) Private individuals with knowledge of and respect for DEC equipment esp. 10's/TOPS or those wishing to set up museums/displays and actually run the equipment will be given greater consideration. I'm loathe to put it on ebay so some dot-scam lottery winner can buy it just to say they've got a PDP10, so I'm giving people on this list first dibs. This is definitely not a first come first served, or highest bidder/trader situation - but more like finding the best home for a beloved pet. I thank all respondents in advance, but I can only reply to a limited number of serious inquiries.Please respond off-list. regards, Heinz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020305/71d11ed2/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Mar 5 11:08:37 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > > it a national trend? > > The rail's being ripped out all over the place. More than half of the > rail freight carriers in the U.S. went under in the 1970's. Either the city of Houston or the county recently removed a main line (don't know the designation) that stretched across the city. IIRC, it connected lots of warehouse areas together, and had lots of small spurs to other areas. We still have lots more rail that is still in use, but it does not reach all the warehouse areas that it once did. The abandonment of that one line seemed to be due to more use of trucks instead of trains for shipping. The Metro rail project that is going on right now is reusing the rail that was removed. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Mar 5 11:10:54 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: <001c01c1c459$c4bc6920$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Allison wrote: > From: Chad Fernandez > > >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > >it a national trend? > > Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro > regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years > and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. > > A big waste if you ask me. Not to mention the pollution factor. I'd find it hard to believe all these trucks spew less pollution than the trains they are replacing... -Toth From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Mar 5 11:12:56 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton,OR to Yates Center, KS? References: Message-ID: <3C84FC98.3EF49F37@Vishay.com> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > ... > little beat, but usually seems to run well. Penske's truck was a Gas > GMC, and it had no air brakes. Try and get a diesel air braked job. The > gas trucks are very thirsty and they don't like to stop. Mileage is Careful with air brakes: these tend to respond in a deferred manner, and if you aren't used to this, you will push harder on the pedal, so when the brakes engage, they will do better than you want them to. The first time I had to drive a truck with air brakes (a truck large enough so you aren't required to wear seat belts in Germany), I was accompanied by two guys of about 250 pounds each. When I was struck by the effect of deferred but amplified brakes, both of them were on their way towards the windscreen: a great view from my seat, but their next words weren't quite as great... ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From ernestls at attbi.com Tue Mar 5 11:17:38 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Clipper Collectors? (Intergraph Interpro) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Kris Kirby > Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:48 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Clipper Collectors? (Intergraph Interpro) > > > > Anyone on here collecting Intergraph Interpro workstations? Are those the big standup work bench systems, with the fold down table or the smaller CADD stations without the table? I have five large addon cards that are each about the size of a XT motherboard for the smaller Intergraph machine but I don't remember the model. It ran Unix and was used for CADD work at an architectural firm I worked at. If anyone is interested in these cards, let me know. Ernest From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 11:29:31 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a great idea. I'm surprised no one has thought about restoring "Roaring Elgin" Service either. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Most of these abandonments were in the 60's into the 80's. Railroads are > doing quite well now (except for Union Pacific, which f****ed up royally > trying to merge computer systems from its too-many and too-fast > acquisitions), and it's the trucking companies that are crying. > > Trivia: the first "rail-to-trail" conversion (dq's greenways with joggers) > was here near Chicago -- the Illinois Prairie Path, which converted the > Chicago, Aurora and Elgin interurban right-of-way, abandoned in 1961, into a > bike path in the mid-1960's. (How --why?-- do I know this? My daughter is > doing a school history fair project on it :-) ). > > There are some groups trying to revive the Chicago, North Shore, and > Milwaukee r.o.w. as an alternative to a 3rd airport in Chicago. The idea is > to build a high speed rail link from downtown Chicago to Mitchell Field in > Milwaukee. > > Bob > > P.S. to Sridhar. > How do you ship partial boxcars of goods? Easy, it's called "LCL" freight > (less-than-car-load). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:05 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment > > > > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that > > happening. Is it a national trend? > > Of course, I'm aware of it primarily through local examples, > but the local newspapers have run articles about how this is > happening throughout the nation.... the midwest probably has > more miles ot track to rip up, though... > > Recently, efforts have been underway to try to reclaim some > abandoned right-of-way and use it to create light rail (i.e. > trolley) lines... > > Once upon a time, there was a B&O spur that ran in front of the > home I lived in as a child (not far from here)... Dad and I would > walk one direction as far as the floodwall, and the other direction > usually only as far as a small drug store that sold hot mixed nuts. > Remember hot mixed nuts, hot peanuts, etc? > > Just a short walk further (which we never did) you'd find the > coal company who used to deliver the coal by which we used to > heat that house (did a natural gas conversion in '64 just before > we moved out). > > But all that line is not greeway, replete with joggers... > > :( > > -dq > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 11:32:42 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <042d01c1c465$55fefdc0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Heinz Wolter wrote: > After much consideration, I've decided to try to find a new home for my > PDP10 KL-10E. I'm trying to get my collection size down to a more > manageable state and concentrate on my PDP11s, Vaxen and Crays. > Right now, I simply don't have the means to house and power the machine, and > would rather see it go to someone that does. > > I've not yet decided if I will ask money for it (I've already invested thousands > in purchase, shipping and storage costs over the last 5 years), trade > for some PDP11's or just offer it for free to a good deserving keeper. > Other interesting trades like an S/390s, Cray EL's, J90s etc also considered. I think I can arrange to trade you an S/390 for one. Peace... Sridhar From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 5 11:45:36 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: <3.0.6.32.20020304090101.007ed550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020304180850.007eebc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020305085019.00802100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20020305112523.007ff100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001701c1c46d$8ed9c3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What??? You mean that the controller doesn't have a normal FDD cable connector? Is it possible that there's an intermediate signal distribution board, a concept not unheard-of among Intel products, that you don't have? I'll check my old doc's just to see what I can find, but I don't remember that there was such a thing. Isn't there someone somewhere who's got one of these boards working? Perhaps they can shed light on what works and what doesn't. As Tony pointed out, 8" floppy drives expect to see a 50-conductor cable, of which the odd pins are grounded. There's a very much standardized pinout, though some makers didn't stick with it, e.g. PerSci, but, at least in that case, the differences were only a few (4) displaced signals. After all, there are only so many signals a drive and controller can reasonably use to communicate with one another. Unfortunately, this particular board doesn't seem to have adhered to that standard. Most of their later boards did use the standard pinout, so I conclude that there may have been an intermediate board, of which there would have been several versions for several different drive subsystems. It's possible that there was an external clock extraction circuit (data separator) as well, as was the case with at least one of their Multibus-1 HDC's. I'm unable to locate my Intel doc's from that era, so I can't verify what the interconnection scheme they promoted for that system was, but if it's not the "standard" FD cable, I'd say you have a bit of research to do, since this apparent lack of a drive interface specification suggests, to me, at least, that there's a physical piece of the hardware that's missing, along with the associated documentation, and that's where you're more likely to find the drive-subsystem-related information that's been so conspicuous in its absence. This also fits together with Tony's observation that most such products simply included the drive manufacturer's doc's. Since this product may not have been intended for use with a specific configuration, it wouldn't have documented that configuration, or any other artifact of the drive subsystem, since the had a product that handled that. The absence of a drive-compatible connector of any sort on the controller board explains the absence of any drive information in the document you have for the controller. I have a, much later of course, hard disk controller that uses an off-board data interface to the several sorts of drives it supports, and, not surprisingly, while the controller manual tells lots of things about the controller, it says absolutely nothing about the drive interface. That's clearly left up to the documents relating to the varous drive data interface boards they require. I'd give that controller manual a good read, just to see what, if anything, it says about the floppy drive interface board to which it is probably supposed to be wedded. There are probably several candidates. Intel was infamous for taking what would easily have worked on a single board and making two or, if they could, three, out of that function, since they could charge more for that. Intel boards often cost $25 less than a competitor's product, only to turn out to cost $2500 more once you'd bought the necessary companion products that made them useable. They liked, particularly, to do that with their own products, since you couldn't go anywhere else to buy the functions you wanted, and, you wouldn't readily give up the Intel products they supported, having invested a huge amount in the development system for Intel's. Motorola was the same way, of course, but it wasn't quite so blatant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > At 07:46 AM 3/5/02 -0700, you wrote: > >see below, plz. > > > >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 6:50 AM > >Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > > > > >> At 04:31 PM 3/4/02 -0700, Richard wrote: > >> >I'd advise you to pursue this from the controller end, initially. > >> > >> Good idea. Unfortunately the card connector is numbered 1-100 with odd > >> numbers on one side and even one the other (exactly same as S-100). But > >> it's connector is numbered A1 through A50 on one side and B1 through B50 on > >> the other. It makes things confusing! It's not something that you should > >> do when you're tired! > >> > > > >Agreed ... I'm having a little trouble with that one myself ... there are > only > >25 pairs on the cable. > > There are (or can be) 100 wires per cable. > > What do they do with the numbers greater than 25 on > >one side and 50 on the other? > > There are 50 contacts per side. All the odd numbered wires are on the A > side and all the even numbered ones are on the B side. But here's one place > that it gets very weird, A1 is pin 99 and A50 is pin 1 !!! The same thing > happens on the B side, B1 is pin 100 and B50 is pin 2! > > I came up with a couple of formulas to help figure out the wire numbers. > Wire # for contact Ax is (51-x)*2 and the wire # for contact Bx is > ((51-x)*2)-1. I *think* that's right! it was late when I was working on it. > > > > > >Perhaps you'll want to give up on using th '85x's on the Intel box and use > >80x's instead. There will be a cleaner path for you to follow, though, > >clearly, it won't be totally obvious. > > I would use 800s if I had any but it seems like all I can find are 85xs > :-/ I've got two extra 800s but they've been out in the weather and they > look nasty! > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 12:00:31 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <042d01c1c465$55fefdc0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: > After much consideration, I've decided to try to find a new home for my > PDP10 KL-10E. I'm trying to get my collection size down to a more > manageable state and concentrate on my PDP11s, Vaxen and Crays. > Right now, I simply don't have the means to house and power the machine, = > and > would rather see it go to someone that does. What kind of Crays anyway? > It does have the complete PDP11/40 front end system, RHs and 2x NIAs. > The cabinets will have to be reconnected and the system tested > and brought up in an orderly manner by someone familiar with this > class of machine. Shipping will be the responsibility of the receiver- > 4 wide cabs - ~700lbs each? 700 to 1000 pounds, I think. They are not too difficult to move around. RCS had only two people around to fetch our KL10E, involving two trucks. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 5 12:08:45 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home References: Message-ID: <3C8509AD.5D6BA3EC@jetnet.ab.ca> Julius Sridhar wrote: > I think I can arrange to trade you an S/390 for one. Nothing like free trade between CANADA and the USA. :) Good luck with the shipping ! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Mar 5 12:14:13 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467732@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Vintage Computer Festival > <<<<>>>> > Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the > truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he > rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. > Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one > way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would > be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he > can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > -- > If I had the time, I would offer to fly out and drive the 'Burban for you. It would be a neat adventure for me... But yeah, I would rent the 24' truck, and have a friend drive the 'Burban. Also, like someone else mentioned, have CB radio in both vehicles. You can get fairly cheap 2 or 3 channel ones from Radio Shack. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 5 12:27:13 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORtoYates Message-ID: <001e01c1c473$600e0820$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Tothwolf >On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Allison wrote: >> From: Chad Fernandez >> >> >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is >> >it a national trend? >> >> Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro >> regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years >> and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. >> >> A big waste if you ask me. > >Not to mention the pollution factor. I'd find it hard to believe all these >trucks spew less pollution than the trains they are replacing... > >-Toth Yep! I meant ripping the tracks up was the waste! Allison From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 5 12:27:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: "noW greeNways replete with joggers" In-Reply-To: <3C8509AD.5D6BA3EC@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: A number of years ago, I heard about one RR's plan for the future. Apparently Southern Pacific RR (aka SPRINT!) had a very special train car that was very slowly travelling their entire system. As it went along, it dug a trench, laid cable and covered over the trench. The RR would not divulge numbers, but freely acknowledged that it was making much more money on its right-of-way for laying cable than it did by running trains. I'd guess that they probably get plenty for converting their tracks to jogging trails, but retain right of way rights for underground cable along those trails that they build "for the good of the community". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 5 12:36:22 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home In-Reply-To: <3C8509AD.5D6BA3EC@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > I think I can arrange to trade you an S/390 for one. > > Nothing like free trade between CANADA and the USA. :) > Good luck with the shipping ! Not planning on shipping. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 12:40:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <3C8192F9.1010608@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020305184041.38280.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the > DECdatasystems label. I have something similar - a PDP-8/a in a desk (as pictured on the front of the 1976-1977 minicomputer handbook) with a black-fronted RX01 drive and, ISTR, "DECdatasystems 310" label (could have mis-remembered the number, though). I would tend to agree with other posters in this thread, that the datasystems line was prepackaged and ready to drop-ship to the customer, as opposed to the more traditional sales where you could order a PDP a-la-carte. I'm sure price and age have something to do with it as well... once a system became mature, there were fewer varieties demanded by the marketplace, so, DEC created a "one size fits most" package to make it easier to show your pointy-haired boss and get approval for. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 13:00:12 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: KL10-E looking for a good home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305190012.69015.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julius Sridhar wrote: > Not planning on shipping. 8-) I think a few of us here would *walk* to CANADA for a PDP-10 and carry it home on our backs... "Anything to declare? Yes... my 36-bit PDA..." ;-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 13:16:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: RK03/RK05/Diablo drives (was Re: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)) In-Reply-To: <200203050429.AA13381@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> Message-ID: <20020305191608.46881.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carl Lowenstein wrote: > They look like DEC RK03's to me. Predecessor to the RK05, and actually > re-badged drives from some other manufacturer, the name of which escapes > me at the moment. Diablo. > RK05's used a glass reticule for positioning. For the positioner-feedback mechanism, yes. It was a voice-coil positioner with a detector circuit that would ramp up the coil so that on a long enough seek, the drive could bring the heads from zero to max speed, cruise the proper amount, then slow down the heads to prevent, among other problems, whiplash, overshoot and excessive current in the coil windings. On more than one occasion, I have repaired an RK05 drive by merely replacing the light bulb behind the reticle. > I think that on-disk format tracks came with the first "Winchester" > sealed drives. Perhaps Winchesters were first (I forget what year they were invented), but the RL01/RL02 drives had embedded servo tracks. Prior to that, drives like the RM02/RM03 (CDC 9762?) had a servo surface (with an attendant servo head that could frequently be visually distinguished). The problem is that for the RK03/RK05, you didn't want to give up 50% of your data area for servo information, so the packs are hard-sectored (12 sectors per track of 16-bit words or 16 sectors of 12-bit words) and the track-to-track positioning was accomplished entirely externally. Makes it possible to format a blank or disassembled-and-reassembled-with-no- regard-to-hard-sectoring pack. RL01/RL02 packs are *not* low-level formattable by the user. When the Air Force would bulk erase them to protect secure data, those packs were rendered inoperative. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Mar 5 13:30:37 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <20020305184041.38280.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This sounds like a machine I used to work on. PDP-8/a, two floppy drives, a VT-50 terminal that looked like it could have been provisioned for an internal thermal printer, and ours had a LA-36. We ran two OS's in it, COS-310 (which I wrote DIBOL under), and some other OS that was really bizarre (it was a DEC product). It's single biggest claim to fame was that no one could ever figure out how to do a directory of the disk. You either knew what was out there, or you reformatted it. We used this system to process cassette tapes written by a box attached to copy machines. It was one of the first copy counting control systems, and we sold a bunch into law firms. Prior to the system going in, the firm may bill as much as 90% of it's copying cost to internal budgets. With our system, the legal aide or lawyer entered an account number into a calculator like keypad, then made copies. Either after a time out, or a new account number being entered, the date, time, account number, and number of copies made was written to the tape. My job, at the time, was to take the tapes, read them on a cassette reading into this funky OS on the PDP-8/a, which wrote them as files to the disk, then reboot the system into COS-310, and process the data on the data disk. After a few months of working there, I started modifying the processing code to run a little faster, print pretty banners on the front page for the 3 letter client abbreviation (got a $1000 bonus from that. Looked a lot less tacky than using a thick black magic marker). I also made a few changes to the tape read app, which taught PDP-8 assembly. It was pretty neat, at the time. I don't miss it at all. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 13:41 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DECdatasystems > > > > --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Don't know if it means any to you, but I have a PDP-8/A under the > > DECdatasystems label. > > I have something similar - a PDP-8/a in a desk (as pictured on the front > of the 1976-1977 minicomputer handbook) with a black-fronted RX01 > drive and, ISTR, "DECdatasystems 310" label (could have mis-remembered > the number, though). > > I would tend to agree with other posters in this thread, that the > datasystems line was prepackaged and ready to drop-ship to the customer, > as opposed to the more traditional sales where you could order a PDP > a-la-carte. > > I'm sure price and age have something to do with it as well... once a > system became mature, there were fewer varieties demanded by the > marketplace, so, DEC created a "one size fits most" package to make it > easier to show your pointy-haired boss and get approval for. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Mar 5 13:32:21 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: "noW greeNways replete with joggers" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about these little robots that crawl the sewer pipes of New York, pulling fiber? I'm just not sure I want a piece of orange plastic light guide coming out of the toilet, over the floor, and into the network hub... --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin > (XenoSoft) > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 13:28 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: "noW greeNways replete with joggers" > > > A number of years ago, I heard about one RR's plan for the future. > Apparently Southern Pacific RR (aka SPRINT!) had a very special train car > that was very slowly travelling their entire system. As it went along, it > dug a trench, laid cable and covered over the trench. The RR would not > divulge numbers, but freely acknowledged that it was making much more > money on its right-of-way for laying cable than it did by running trains. > > I'd guess that they probably get plenty for converting their tracks to > jogging trails, but retain right of way rights for underground cable along > those trails that they build "for the good of the community". > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 13:34:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: MOP booting RT-11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305193432.17201.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > Is it possible to boot RT-11 on an 11/23 via MOP? If so, can it > be done over ethernet or does it have to be a serial line? Tom, I know we've been discussing your PDP-11 off-list, but I wanted to put forth this answer in public view because I think it's on-topic... As others more qualified than I have said, there isn't a way to boot RT-11 over an ethernet card; I am, however, confident you can boot RT-11 over a TU-58 and a serial port. I have never done it (I've always used floppies or a hard disk), but with the right bootstrap on the -11, it shouldn't be a big deal. You could then bring up your machine from an emulated TU-58 (a DOS or Linux box, probably, or even VMS, with a little development work to port an emulator) and tape images. It's a bit slow - 38400 bps is a standard transfer speed, but not as bad as the original because you won't have enormous seek latency. Also, it's possible to force-feed a bootstrap or any other memory tidbits down the console line and ODT. We used that technique to test COMBOARDs when I was at Software Results - the rig was software on the VAX, test images, and a switch that gated the VT100 to be attached only to the VAX; only to the console on the PDP-11; or to pass data transmitted to the VAX into the console of the -11 and to echo the results back to the VT100 (using a three position switch or a pair of ganged A-B switch boxes with some internal re-wiring) The process went something like this... o Set the switch to use the PDP-11 o Install the Unit Under Test into the PDP-11 o Power on the PDP-11 and issue a few ODT commands to verify the board was alive and at the right CSR address o Set the switch to use the VAX o Log in and SET DEF to the directory with the test images o Run the test program and give it the name of the test file o Wait to see the message "Throw the Switch!" o Set the switch to the third position so the VAX can send characters to the PDP-11 console port. o Watch the characters echo and see that ODT is in sync and is accepting the data, not issuing errors (possible if you were in the middle of an ODT command when the data started flowing from the VAX or if you waited too long to throw the switch and the test program started emitting characters before the PDP-11 could see them). o When you see the flow stop, set the switch back to the first position to use the PDP-11 from the terminal. o Issue, I think, a G 1000, or whatever else was the right thing for the flavor of ODT in your particular test box to execute code at 001000. o Watch the pretty lights (if you attached the programmer's console to the COMBOARD under test). By using this mechanism, we were able to write programs for the -11 _or_ for the COMBOARD itself (by using ODT to stuff the data bound for our product through its CSR and window registers) - the DMA test required two load sessions - one for the COMBOARD and one for the PDP-11. The software was just regular object files in a directory on the VAX; the app we ran did the ODT conversion and formatting automatically. Today, I would probably use a Perl script instead of a FORTRAN app. Additionally, our test boxes were just a CPU, some nominal amount of memory (32KW, I think) and a serial port. No programmer's console on the -11 and no I/O besides our board and a console port; that way *when* we blew up PDP-11s, they were cheap to repair. I have a small box of dead Unibus RAM for the 11/34 that fell out of this process. If I ever need to scavenge enough for an RT-11 box (as opposed to a RSTS or Unix box), I have a place to start. I hope this enlightens rather than obscures your options for feeding a PDP-11 from a serial port in cases of no bootable devices or media being available... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 5 13:59:40 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: PDP 7 ?Rescue? Message-ID: <172.48f29bc.29b67dac@aol.com> I have a lead on a PDP 7 coming out of service in the Portland Oregon area. I hope to go look at it on March 19th or 20th. I believe it is still plugged in but out of service. I think it is a late '60s machine. Anyone interested in it please contact me at whoagiii@aol.com, not on the list please. I am not interested in getting it. I think that there are very few out there and any left need rescue. I will take pictures when I get a chance to look at it. I would like info on what to look for when I look at the machine. Paxton Hoag From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Mar 5 14:33:51 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 Message-ID: An IBM 3840 Tape System just came in recently at Purdue University Salvage and Surplus. The guy that works there (Don) said he would try and figure out a price for it. The system includes: 1) 1x3840 A22 controller 2) 2x3840 B22 dual-tape drive 3) 1x3840 B22 dual-tape drive with autochanger. The item was in 'unknown status', but appeared to be complete. I've asked him to hold off on scrapping the system until at least next Tuesday. If you're interested, contact me off list, and I'll try to see what he'll want for it(you can make an offer for him). Currently, I don't have any way to move it or store it (more than a couple days in my apartment that is) so the pickup would either have to be by Tuesday by you or I'd have to rent a truck to move it to my place for temporary storage (which I'd ask $20+truck charges for). If no-one's interested by next Tuesday, I'll tell him to go ahead and scrap it, so make up your minds soon... I'll post a price for it as soon as I find one out. -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Mar 5 15:09:03 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: IBM 3192 Terminals Message-ID: Today I just got a pair of IBM 3192 (saved from the dumpster), and was wondering what options I have for using them. I know they're 'supposed to' be hooked up to a 3270-mode terminal controller, (like the AT&T 6544 I have, perhaps??), but I'm having a hard time finding much information out about them using Google. Does anyone know of a good reference site for info on these 'beasts'? I also need to get software still for my at&t 6544 if that'll work with these - still not clear if that's a *useful* option. Thanks for the help -- Pat From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 5 15:25:15 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORt In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020306022253.FYBX2871.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "John Chris Wren" > To: > Subject: RE: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:47:37 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [ complete and total snippage about starting diesels ] > > I don't know *anything* about big diesels, but I remember leaving lit cans > of Sterno under the Mercedes 220D on the 20 below nights... Why block > heaters aren't a factory default on the Benz, I'll never know. > > --John On friend's 1968 Mercedes 300D 5 cylinders w/ uneven injector box (throbbing idle), started fine at -15C midnight stone cold with help from glow plugs. Diesel is the way to go for best diesel milage. Too efficient burn that you don't have any heat left over to play with especially at no to low loads. On newer diesel cars, crank heat up full, heaters in coolent passages kicks in. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 5 15:25:15 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR t In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020306022251.FYBN2871.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:56:42 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to > Yates Center, KS? > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > > > We had electric heater dipsticks for the auxiliary light-plants on my > > > drilling rigs. Kept the oil, crankcase and block heated to about 55-60F > > > even in sub-zero weather. > > > This is on-topic. I quit roughnecking well over 10 years ago. :o) > > > > How many Pentiums does it take to warm a diesel engine? > > 483 Intel 54C, 82 AMD K-6 or 1 Cyrix 686.... Later cyrix 686L is too cold. Or athlon 2100 XP, healthy 70W of heat in tiny area. What about hooking up cray XP to heat that oil and crank away the statras data and heat up that diesel's oil in the process? footnote: Bush pilots withdraw their engine oil and keep it indoors. Heat it up and fill engine w/ hot oil just before aircraft's engine startup. > Doc Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 15:37:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Mar 4, 2 08:15:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 413 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020305/2c0febfa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 15:40:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Write only programming In-Reply-To: <3C842656.D6A21065@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Mar 4, 2 06:58:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 425 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020305/13878038/attachment.ksh From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Mar 5 15:41:00 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <3C857C85.28528.3C511BC@localhost> References: <001c01c1c459$c4bc6920$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305152808.03286a50@127.0.0.1> The problem with keeping rail down is that the railroad companies have to pay additional taxes on it. As a rail enthusiast, I can never understand the injustice of paying taxes on a railroad just to have that money subsidize the trucking industry by paying for the roadways they travel on. If I was in business for myself, and I had to pay taxes to keep my competitor in business, I'd be really p*ssed myself. As for the environmentalists, the fact that they never picked up on rail travel as the most environmentally responsible way of shipping over land has floored me. It's been proven time after time after time that moving goods overland via rail is the MOST environmentally friendly way of shipment over long distances. It takes much less fuel to move items over rail than rubber. Think about it - the average high horsepower rail locomotive has a prime mover that develops 6000 horsepower. Two of these locomotives can haul 7000 - 8000 *TONS* of train and freight over most of the lines in this country. Twelve thousand horsepower for 8000 tons. That equates to 1.5 horsepower PER TON. And of course, much less is required when the train is moving. Do you think you could get a thirty ton truck moving to sixty miles per hour with a 45 horsepower engine? Not very well, and it probably would stall on the first hill you encountered. The physics of the whole situation are against road transport. Oh, and by the way, the railroad industry is saddled with emissions-reduction mandates from the EPA as well...... For long hauls cross-country, it's stupid to use a truck - in my opinion. Heck, even UPS uses trains to move their trailers cross country. As for making this post more on topic, the railroad industry was an early adopter of computers for automation and accounting. The Pennsylvania railroad used an electro-mechanical computer in the early 50's to make reservations for passenger trains. It was complete with a recorded voice so the system could be operated from a telephone. - Matt At 02:18 AM 3/6/2002 -0600, you wrote: > Try all over North America. It's been going on for years. The joke of it > all is >that transportation gurus are now tending to think that rail is the more >economical way. Better for the environment and causing less damage to >the roads not to mention the congestion and delay of the highways. > It escapes me why they ripped up the track in the first place. The scrap >value of the steel couldn't have offset the cost of doing so and should you >ever change your mind there's no going back except with astronomical costs. > The trucking industry lobby had a finger in the pie methinks. > >Lawrence > > > From: Chad Fernandez > > > > > > >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > > >it a national trend? > > > > > > Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro > > regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years > > and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. > > > > A big waste if you ask me. > > > > Allison > > > > >Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net > >Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad >he goes to his death and in death is made wise. >Robert Graves Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 5 15:55:49 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: MOP booting RT-11 Message-ID: <002e01c1c490$8439cdc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Ethan Dicks > >As others more qualified than I have said, there isn't a way to boot >RT-11 over an ethernet card; True. However you can mop boot using DDCMP over serial or sync lines but that is not supported by RT11 internally but it can load the rt11 image that way. > I am, however, confident you can boot RT-11 >over a TU-58 and a serial port. I have never done it (I've always used >floppies or a hard disk), but with the right bootstrap on the -11, it I have, and do. it expects a standard DL device on one of several likely addresses and uses RSP/MRSP (TU58 serial protocal). >shouldn't be a big deal. You could then bring up your machine from an >emulated TU-58 (a DOS or Linux box, probably, or even VMS, with a little There are programs for Linus or unix boxen and it's doable with VMS. >development work to port an emulator) and tape images. It's a bit slow - >38400 bps is a standard transfer speed, but not as bad as the original >because you won't have enormous seek latency. At 38.4 with a real tape the seeks are killer slow. With a tu58 simulator it's remarkably fast and useable. Hint: boot rt11, install VM: and INIT VM: then copy/boot DD to VM, then copy the core of RT11 to VM and boot that. Then the slow tape is less an issue as swaps and commonly used files are local to the ramdisk (VM:). Minimum ram for that is 256k (VM:192k), as usual more is better. With a 1 or 2Mb of ram VM: is quite large and the effect is a system that beats an RL02/RLV21 for performance. Most of this is forgotten by all but the most hardcore PDP-11 users and likely unheard of to the kids. >Also, it's possible to force-feed a bootstrap or any other memory >tidbits down the console line and ODT. We used that technique to >test COMBOARDs when I was at Software Results - the rig was software or to load the TU58 loader. ;) Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 5 16:07:33 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 05, 2002 09:36:10 AM Message-ID: <200203052207.g25M7X815527@shell1.aracnet.com> > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > it a national trend? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA We've had quite a lot ripped out here in Oregon. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 5 16:13:47 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:05 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: from "Allison" at Mar 05, 2002 10:23:55 AM Message-ID: <200203052213.g25MDls15793@shell1.aracnet.com> > Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro > regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years > and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. If they've been abandoned for to long it takes a lot of work to get them back into condition to run trains over them. While we've had a lot of track ripped out around here, they've also reopened a fair amount of it. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 16:17:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: SCSI options for PDP 11/23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305221710.4253.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Leffingwell wrote: > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > I can't understand how funding can be so tight that a project which > > uses a $ 100 million satellite can't find the support for a PDP-11 > > system at this point. I used to work for these guys (well... their predecessors, but the same program and source of funding). I understand how it's possible. The entire U.S. Antarctic Program, research grants, equipment, fuel, food, building supplies, salaries, boat and aircraft rental, offices, *everything* is around $200M USD per year. For a program that employs hundreds of people in several countries over several continents, they do a decent job of doing things on the cheap. There are times, though, that individual decisions and/or priorities seem completely whacked. > I did manage to pickup an empty Microvax chassis. Its 9-slot, and I'm > not sure exactly what it is. VS31V-A2 is the model number on the back > of the case, but that sounds like a system model number. Some kind of VAXstation 3100, I'd wager. Too new for my expertise. ;-) > Do I have to use the M8189 with this chassis or can I use my M8186? No. Either CPU will do. I'm sure you can find docs, but if your box is like a BA-23, the top three slots are probably "CD" slots so that the right half doesn't need Qbus granting. It's been done here before in ASCII art, but the grant chain for a BA-23 looks like this... AB CD +--------------------+ 1 I | I I | ||||||| I <- "CD interconnect" 2 I | I I | ||||||| I <- "CD interconnect" 3 I | I I | I 4 I +----------+ I I | I 5 I +----------+ I I | I 6 I +----------+ I I | I 7 I +----------+ I I | I 8 I +----------+ I I | I 9 I +----------+ I +--------------------+ What I'm trying to communicate is the dual nature of the backplane - the first three slots have the "CD interconnect" on the "CD" slots - the uVAX-I CPU and the RLV11 disk controller depend on them. I don't know what else does. In a MicroVAX (past the -I), the memory does *not* sit on the Qbus. It sits on the PMI (Private Memory Interconnect). I believe this is the case for later PDP-11s (11/83, etc.) as well. The memory cards go in a quad slot below the CPU and only the left half of them sit on the Qbus. If you have any dual-height Qbus memory for your KDF-11, it goes only on the left side; the right side stays empty, but only at the top of the box, not further down. Peripherals can go anywhere there's a Qbus slot. I don't recall if there's an official rule that memory *must* go between the CPU and the first peripheral, but it is at least the convention. If you aquire a later CPU, like from an 11/53 with RAM and serial onboard, you could conceivably have that board in slot 1, a SCSI card or other disk controller in the left side of slot 2 and that's it. If you were willing to go with a TU-58 as the only mass storage device, all you really need, then, is a way to power the board, and perhaps terminate the bus, but that's another project. Again, check the docs for your particular enclosure. My "in head" knowledge of PDP-11s and Qbus VAXen kinda trickles down for stuff newer than about 1989. We stopped buying new hardware about that point and I spent the next five years fixing the old stuff. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 16:23:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020305222323.5546.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Chris Wren wrote: > This sounds like a machine I used to work on. PDP-8/a, two floppy > drives, a VT-50 terminal that looked like it could have been provisioned > for an internal thermal printer, and ours had a LA-36. Yep... they sold a bunch of them. The printer inside the VT-50 case wasn't thermal, BTW. The "1976-1977 pdp-8/a minicomputer handbook" calls it an "electrolytic copier" under the entry for the VT-61. My memory of working with them was that they used funky paper and there was a wet wiper brush that moistened the paper as it exited the printer. Perhaps it squeegeed it. I don't recall any more. > We ran two OS's in it... It was pretty neat, at the time. I don't miss > it at all. I can understand that, but still; I wish _I_ had had the opportunity to have been paid to work with PDP-8s. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jrice at texoma.net Tue Mar 5 16:24:16 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates References: <200203052207.g25M7X815527@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3C854590.1060604@texoma.net> A lot of track has been abanoned and ripped up in Texas. We have a lot of new bike and jogging trails as a result. James Dallas http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp2.html Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is >>it a national trend? >> >>Chad Fernandez >>Michigan, USA >> > > We've had quite a lot ripped out here in Oregon. > > Zane > > . > > From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 5 16:29:50 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3C8548D2.82E251B9@ccp.com> References: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: >I haven't done U-Haul since 1979, for apparent reasons. > >First, get a diesel truck. Mileage is much better; gas engines only get >about 5 mpg and the trucks might do 50 mph flat out. This is good advice... except... no offense, but judging from your location, you prolly never tried to start a big-honkin' diesel engine when the temps dip below freezing... ;-) If you're going to do the hauling in the northern latitudes during the late fall/winter/early spring months, get a gasoline engine -- nothing sucks worse than getting a late start the next day because that ^*$%&$^ diesel won't start in the cold... it pretty much sets the mood for the rest of the day... Or... be prepared. Be sure to pack: 1) 1 each big honkin' belly-pan heater (the bottom 12-14 inches of a 55-gallon drum works great), 2) *lots* of charcoal & charcoal starter, 3) *lots* of tarps to shroud the truck so the heat doesn't get whisked away by the wind, 4) an early start - it'll still take a little while to warm things up, but at least it's not a lot of work [read: go out; start big fire; go back in to stay warm & rest/eat breakfast/plan your days travels/whatever; go back out an hour later & start up the truck; then extinguish fire & wait 5-10 minutes for the cooker to cool & the truck to warm up.] Otherwise, yes... diesel is the way to go. [[ my dad's a OTR trucker, hauling machinery & equipment, and we live on the Canadian border... that reason (and that frieght sucks) is why my dad usually takes January & February off...) >Second, have a partner to trade off on driving. You'd be amazed how >tiring driving a truck at 50 mph can be. And take plenty of breaks. >You'll have to when you get gas/fuel. If you don't have a partner, take *even* more breaks... not having someone to talk to makes the trip much harder to deal with, and you will get fatigued much quicker if you're not accustomed to that sort of thing. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Mar 5 16:33:20 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A82@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Hi everybody, I have heard that OpenSTEP ran on VMS (Alpha) at one point. Having never heard of, nor seen this, I am curious, and would like to acquire a copy of this miraculous thing to run at home (on a hopefully soon-to-be-had DEC 3000, using the VMS hobbyist license...) Does anyone have any idea where to get it? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jrice at texoma.net Tue Mar 5 16:33:53 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Possibly OT: Canon Objectstation SCSI problem Message-ID: <3C8547D1.1030905@texoma.net> Does anyone on the list have experience with the Canon Objectstation Model 41. I think it's just short of being on topic. I'm trying to install NS3.3 on my Objectstation. It has a Buslogic BT-445C SCSI controller, VLB, and I can boot the box, start installing, Next finds the controller, the CD-ROM and the hard drive. The install routine asks me to choose a disk for installation and then fdisk tewlls me "Bogous BIOS information, please reset the bios setting in your mother board or SCSI controller card". I have noticed that I don't get the usual "Press Alt-B for setup" message that I've gotten from Buslogic cards in the past or that the pdf manual from Mylex's site talks about. Did Canon install some funky custom Rom on the card? I'm going to take a spare 486 VLB motherboard home tonight and try setting up the drive using a DOS driver disk that came with the Objectstation. James Rice Dallas, TX http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp2.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 5 16:38:10 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? References: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> Message-ID: <3C8548D2.82E251B9@ccp.com> I haven't done U-Haul since 1979, for apparent reasons. First, get a diesel truck. Mileage is much better; gas engines only get about 5 mpg and the trucks might do 50 mph flat out. Second, have a partner to trade off on driving. You'd be amazed how tiring driving a truck at 50 mph can be. And take plenty of breaks. You'll have to when you get gas/fuel. Good luck . . let us know when things are set up down there, I may make a road trip south to see the goodies . . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 16:40:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <3C857C85.28528.3C511BC@localhost> Message-ID: > It escapes me why they ripped up the track in the first place. The scrap > value of the steel couldn't have offset the cost of doing so and should you > ever change your mind there's no going back except with astronomical costs. In the old days, when steel was worth something, it was very economical. It may not seem like it, but every mile of mainline track has many tons of high grade steel. The 1990s glut of scrap steel changed all of this, however. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 5 16:44:44 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Smith" at Mar 05, 2002 04:33:20 PM Message-ID: <200203052244.g25Mii717665@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have heard that OpenSTEP ran on VMS (Alpha) at one point. > > Having never heard of, nor seen this, I am curious, and would > like to acquire a copy of this miraculous thing to run at home > (on a hopefully soon-to-be-had DEC 3000, using the VMS hobbyist > license...) > > Does anyone have any idea where to get it? > > Chris First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. Zane From DayTraderStock at aol.com Tue Mar 5 16:50:49 2002 From: DayTraderStock at aol.com (DayTraderStock@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Printer Drum Message-ID: <12f.d781843.29b6a5c9@aol.com> Im looking for a LB-DR320 printer drum. Can you help Ron Lessa daytraderstock@aol.com 508-992-1151 in MA From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Mar 5 16:59:35 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <20020305222323.5546.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020305165935.00afa990@ubanproductions.com> At 02:23 PM 3/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >--- John Chris Wren wrote: >> This sounds like a machine I used to work on. PDP-8/a, two floppy >> drives, a VT-50 terminal that looked like it could have been provisioned >> for an internal thermal printer, and ours had a LA-36. > >Yep... they sold a bunch of them. The printer inside the VT-50 case >wasn't thermal, BTW. The "1976-1977 pdp-8/a minicomputer handbook" calls >it an "electrolytic copier" under the entry for the VT-61. My memory of >working with them was that they used funky paper and there was a wet >wiper brush that moistened the paper as it exited the printer. Perhaps >it squeegeed it. I don't recall any more. > That sounds like a Versatec printer, which used an electrostatic process to attach the carbon suspended in the liquid toner... --tom From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 17:06:43 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton,OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3C84FC98.3EF49F37@Vishay.com> Message-ID: I drove coaches for 25 years, I'm well familiar with airbrakes. The Penske hydrovac brakes definitely left a lot to be desired. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > ... > > little beat, but usually seems to run well. Penske's truck was a Gas > > GMC, and it had no air brakes. Try and get a diesel air braked job. The > > gas trucks are very thirsty and they don't like to stop. Mileage is > > Careful with air brakes: these tend to respond in a deferred manner, and > if you aren't used to this, you will push harder on the pedal, so when > the brakes engage, they will do better than you want them to. > > The first time I had to drive a truck with air brakes (a truck large > enough so you aren't required to wear seat belts in Germany), I was > accompanied by two guys of about 250 pounds each. When I was struck by > the effect of deferred but amplified brakes, both of them were on their > way towards the windscreen: a great view from my seat, but their next > words weren't quite as great... ;-) > > -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Tue Mar 5 17:11:41 2002 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems References: <20020305222323.5546.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C8550AD.848CEAC9@tinyworld.co.uk> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- John Chris Wren wrote: > > This sounds like a machine I used to work on. PDP-8/a, two > > floppy drives, a VT-50 terminal that looked like it could have > > been provisioned for an internal thermal printer, and ours had a > > LA-36. > > Yep... they sold a bunch of them. The printer inside the VT-50 case > wasn't thermal, BTW. The "1976-1977 pdp-8/a minicomputer handbook" > calls it an "electrolytic copier" under the entry for the VT-61. > My memory of working with them was that they used funky paper and > there was a wet wiper brush that moistened the paper as it exited > the printer. Perhaps it squeegeed it. I don't recall any more. The paper had to be wet before printing, not after, because the image was produced by passing current through the paper. Details about helix wires and anodes are contained in the "VT50-Series Copier User's Manual", at http://vt100.net/. - Paul From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 17:17:55 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3C8548D2.82E251B9@ccp.com> Message-ID: I take a break about every two hours. Even just a couple of minutes makes you feel a little better. On the trip back from VA in December, I managed to get into a 14 truck convoy and we rolled at about 70 up I-95. That was a little gas job too. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I haven't done U-Haul since 1979, for apparent reasons. > > First, get a diesel truck. Mileage is much better; gas engines only get > about 5 mpg and the trucks might do 50 mph flat out. > > Second, have a partner to trade off on driving. You'd be amazed how > tiring driving a truck at 50 mph can be. And take plenty of breaks. > You'll have to when you get gas/fuel. > > Good luck . . let us know when things are set up down there, I may make > a road trip south to see the goodies . . . . . > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 5 17:18:33 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: <00be01c1c178$ca70a220$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <20020305231833.18414.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Re: RK03 and/or Diablo 31 disk drives... > > I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on > > the list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one. I don't have one anymore... I used to have one but it was ruined in a flood and discarded over 10 years ago. I still have the I/O cable converters, though... a bit rusty but probably functional. I never did have the PSU for it. The dual PDP-8/M system at Ohio State that was used in the 1980s to analyze horse urine for drugs (via the attached mass spectrometer) had third-party dual-ported Diablo controllers (one each) and several Diablo 31s. I wish I'd been in the right place at the right time to catch it when they retired it, but I wasn't. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 17:26:13 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: I hate getting started early in the cold anyway! Isn't that what ether's for, anyway? Only yuppies use glow plugs. :) I remember getting our old coaches going when it was bitterly cold. Lots of either, batteries that sounded half dead, then a rattle and a start, the old Detroits chugged away until they were warm, and lef tan exhaust trail like a cra. Of course, the next worry is th air system so be sure the tanks are drained and crarry alcohol. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: > >I haven't done U-Haul since 1979, for apparent reasons. > > > >First, get a diesel truck. Mileage is much better; gas engines only get > >about 5 mpg and the trucks might do 50 mph flat out. > > This is good advice... except... no offense, but judging from your > location, you prolly never tried to start a big-honkin' diesel engine when > the temps dip below freezing... ;-) > > If you're going to do the hauling in the northern latitudes during the late > fall/winter/early spring months, get a gasoline engine -- nothing sucks > worse than getting a late start the next day because that ^*$%&$^ diesel > won't start in the cold... it pretty much sets the mood for the rest of the > day... > > Or... be prepared. Be sure to pack: > 1) 1 each big honkin' belly-pan heater (the bottom 12-14 inches of a > 55-gallon drum works great), > 2) *lots* of charcoal & charcoal starter, > 3) *lots* of tarps to shroud the truck so the heat doesn't get whisked away > by the wind, > 4) an early start - it'll still take a little while to warm things up, but > at least it's not a lot of work [read: go out; start big fire; go back in > to stay warm & rest/eat breakfast/plan your days travels/whatever; go back > out an hour later & start up the truck; then extinguish fire & wait 5-10 > minutes for the cooker to cool & the truck to warm up.] > > Otherwise, yes... diesel is the way to go. > > [[ my dad's a OTR trucker, hauling machinery & equipment, and we live on > the Canadian border... that reason (and that frieght sucks) is why my dad > usually takes January & February off...) > > >Second, have a partner to trade off on driving. You'd be amazed how > >tiring driving a truck at 50 mph can be. And take plenty of breaks. > >You'll have to when you get gas/fuel. > > If you don't have a partner, take *even* more breaks... not having someone > to talk to makes the trip much harder to deal with, and you will get > fatigued much quicker if you're not accustomed to that sort of thing. > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 17:31:10 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <02011618123505.04415@ccraft.springsips.com> Message-ID: Bill donzelli is putting together a tripo west. you shoukld contact him as he thinks he can carry the decrwriter. On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Chris Craft wrote: > I'd love to have a decwriter, but am darned near on the other side of the > country from RI. Any idea what shipping to US-80487 would be? > > -Chris, the RetroComputing Nut > > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 04:50 pm, you wrote: > > We seem to have a surfeit of Decwriters. Would anyone be interested in > > one? > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Mar 5 17:34:34 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: <200203052207.g25M7X815527@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > > it a national trend? > > We've had quite a lot ripped out here in Oregon. This does beg the question... Who exactly is paying for this, and to what gain? I think someone's point of it not really being cost- effective (even for the scrap) is worth investigating. Maybe it is. I can't imagine it's more expensive to produce a ton of steel from salvaged rails than it is to do the same from iron ore. Still, it'd be interesting to know who's fronting the labor to do it, and what money is backing it. -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Mar 5 17:39:48 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: <3C854590.1060604@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > A lot of track has been abanoned and ripped up in Texas. We have a lot ^^^^^ > of new bike and jogging trails as a result. | / And really, I think there's no surprise here :-) / -brian. From rhb57 at vol.com Tue Mar 5 17:55:19 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Printer Drum In-Reply-To: <12f.d781843.29b6a5c9@aol.com> Message-ID: I'm guessing that you need the drum unit that fits a C.Itoh 4, 4+ or 8 which is a factory part number of the LB-DR320... Here's one online source for it: http://www.bardpaper.com/Qstore/p000585.htm => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of => DayTraderStock@aol.com => Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 4:51 PM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: Printer Drum => => => Im looking for a LB-DR320 printer drum. Can you help => Ron Lessa daytraderstock@aol.com 508-992-1151 in MA => From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 17:56:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Bill donzelli is putting together a tripo west. you shoukld contact him > as he thinks he can carry the decrwriter. This is still a good possibility, but anything going west or eastbound would have to go on the trailer. Caccooning in shrinkwrap, as I posted before, would be difficult but possible, as the DECwriters are dumb shapes. I am open to hauling the things regardless - just keep in mind that it will not ride inside the van. So far the trip involves a stop in Chicago, a delivery in Denver, a stop in Sun City West, a delivery in Los Angeles, and finally some foolishness in San Francisco. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 17:57:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <001601c1c3e9$6cd0bce0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 4, 2 06:59:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1808 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020305/38d6ef7c/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 18:10:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <200203052244.g25Mii717665@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 5 18:11:18 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020305191118.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Merle K. Peirce may have mentioned these words: > >I hate getting started early in the cold anyway! Isn't that what ether's >for, anyway? Only yuppies use glow plugs. :) Only if you don't own the truck!!! ;-P Ether is *very* hard on diesel engines -- with regular use, it drops the life expectancy of the engine by over 50%, and the more you use it, the harder starting the engine becomes, so you need more ether, so it starts even harder... It's a viscious cycle... My dad runs nuthin' but Cummins Big-Cam (had a II, a IV, and a V, methinks) and has had great luck with 'em - but he takes damn good care of 'em. [read: never uses ether] To bring this back on-topic[ish] - don't buy a Kenworth (KW) - the computers in them really *suck*. 'Course, they're not 10 years old... they're prolly Pentiums... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 18:14:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 4, 2 09:35:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/1331fc23/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 18:19:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I hate getting started early in the cold anyway! Isn't that what ether's > for, anyway? Only yuppies use glow plugs. :) We had electric heater dipsticks for the auxiliary light-plants on my drilling rigs. Kept the oil, crankcase and block heated to about 55-60F even in sub-zero weather. Not that you could do this on the road, but I've also been able to start mud-pumps (Cat 379 power-plants) by warming a drum of oil for an hour in the heated doghouse and doing an oil change. It's really the viscosity of the cold oil that makes a deisel hard to start, more than the temperature of the cylinders. > I remember getting our old coaches going when it was bitterly cold. Lots > of either, batteries that sounded half dead, then a rattle and a start, > the old Detroits chugged away until they were warm, and lef tan exhaust > trail like a cra. Of course, the next worry is th air system so be sure > the tanks are drained and crarry alcohol. Oh, yeah. And don't store the alcohol next to the doghouse heater. This is on-topic. I quit roughnecking well over 10 years ago. :o) Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 18:19:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture) In-Reply-To: <200203050429.AA13381@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> from "Carl Lowenstein" at Mar 4, 2 08:29:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 877 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/08cd8be9/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 5 18:21:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS (Doc) References: <200203052244.g25Mii717665@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15493.24863.844410.719864@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 5, Doc wrote: > > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. > > We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has > been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. NeXTSTEP by any other name... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From red at bears.org Tue Mar 5 18:28:54 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. > > We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has > been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. What? No. Enlightenment is _not_ OPENSTEP. At best you can think of it like this: OPENSTEP == Bentley Enlightenment == Volkswagen Beetle with a Bentley hood kit OPENSTEP is the app framework that was arguably the core of NeXT's IP. It was available for Windows NT, Mach (which made essentially NEXTSTEP 4), Solaris, and unobtainably HP-UX. Gnustep is the project that was trying to replicate OPENSTEP in a gnu-friendly way. It has a loooong way to go, still. At one point Digital licensed NeXT technologies (just as IBM did) but never delivered anything. ok r. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 18:33:43 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > > > A lot of track has been abanoned and ripped up in Texas. We have a lot > ^^^^^ > > of new bike and jogging trails as a result. | > / > And really, I think there's no surprise here :-) / Elaborate, please. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 18:35:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020305090003.00806a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 5, 2 09:00:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1091 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/0be10555/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 18:41:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <000d01c1c454$801bff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 5, 2 07:46:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2293 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/7abbbd10/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 5 18:41:44 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > We had electric heater dipsticks for the auxiliary light-plants on my >drilling rigs. Kept the oil, crankcase and block heated to about 55-60F >even in sub-zero weather. We had a 200-ton 'boat' that had 4 large MTU engines in it and during the winter we had to take turns going around and checking the block temp. hourly, sometimes starting them nearly as often. There were some nights where the block heaters just couldn't keep the temps up enough so we'd have to run them for 10-15 minutes at a pop to bring the temp back up. It was a SES so two of the engines were for lift-fans while the larger two were the main's hooked to waterjets. A cool thing about this boat was that it had a GPS system hooked to a Mac of some sort housed in a custom cabinet with a 21" monitor. The GPS data would be overlaid on graphics of the area the boat was in and you could zoom in or out as much as you wanted for whatever level of detail you needed. It came in pretty handy during a run along the coast from Maryland to Florida and back. This was back in '93 so the Mac was still a 68k variety. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 5 18:57:19 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? References: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3C85696F.9FA9A898@ccp.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: > >I haven't done U-Haul since 1979, for apparent reasons. > > > >First, get a diesel truck. Mileage is much better; gas engines only get > >about 5 mpg and the trucks might do 50 mph flat out. > > This is good advice... except... no offense, but judging from your > location, you prolly never tried to start a big-honkin' diesel engine when > the temps dip below freezing... ;-) I have driven diesel engines as a personal vehicle for 170k miles. There are tricks to get them started. > > If you're going to do the hauling in the northern latitudes during the late > fall/winter/early spring months, get a gasoline engine -- nothing sucks > worse than getting a late start the next day because that ^*$%&$^ diesel > won't start in the cold... it pretty much sets the mood for the rest of the > day... > > Or... be prepared. Be sure to pack: > 1) 1 each big honkin' belly-pan heater (the bottom 12-14 inches of a > 55-gallon drum works great), > 2) *lots* of charcoal & charcoal starter, > 3) *lots* of tarps to shroud the truck so the heat doesn't get whisked away > by the wind, > 4) an early start - it'll still take a little while to warm things up, but > at least it's not a lot of work [read: go out; start big fire; go back in > to stay warm & rest/eat breakfast/plan your days travels/whatever; go back > out an hour later & start up the truck; then extinguish fire & wait 5-10 > minutes for the cooker to cool & the truck to warm up.] One thing that works rather well is an ordinary hand held air dryer, stuck into the intake manifold. Spraying WD40 works quite well too. And a lot less effort. > > Otherwise, yes... diesel is the way to go. > > [[ my dad's a OTR trucker, hauling machinery & equipment, and we live on > the Canadian border... that reason (and that frieght sucks) is why my dad > usually takes January & February off...) > > >Second, have a partner to trade off on driving. You'd be amazed how > >tiring driving a truck at 50 mph can be. And take plenty of breaks. > >You'll have to when you get gas/fuel. > > If you don't have a partner, take *even* more breaks... not having someone > to talk to makes the trip much harder to deal with, and you will get > fatigued much quicker if you're not accustomed to that sort of thing. > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. Merch, learning about the diesel's quirks is the best way to work with them, just like learning a different o/s on a computer. If more people had learned about the diesels back in the early 80's, we'd see many more on the highways today. And if diesels were so bad, why don't OTR trucks go to them??? 'nuff said. Gary Hildebrand diesel lover St. Joseph, MO From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 5 18:59:04 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3C85696F.9FA9A898@ccp.com> References: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: >I have driven diesel engines as a personal vehicle for 170k miles. >There are tricks to get them started. [snip] >One thing that works rather well is an ordinary hand held air dryer, >stuck into the intake manifold. Spraying WD40 works quite well too. >And a lot less effort. For those who think we're getting into a pissing match, I see this as a serious, but amicable discussion.... That said... Those techniques are great, unless it's a 500HP engine you're trying to get started... I've been around my dad and helped him start, fix, grease, change tires, etc. his trucks for several *million* miles as a vehicle that "if it don't run, we don't eat..." Trying to get that big of an engine that *doesn't* want to start takes a *lot* more than a hairdryer & a squirt of WD40... [ Oh, did I mention the 4 *big honkin'* batteries? ;-) ] >Merch, learning about the diesel's quirks is the best way to work with >them, just like learning a different o/s on a computer. If more people >had learned about the diesels back in the early 80's, we'd see many more >on the highways today. And if diesels were so bad, why don't OTR trucks >go to them??? 'nuff said. I never said diesels are bad -- I just said that they don't start for $*it in the cold, especially if they have a big engine... And the thread started about people who'd prolly never run a diesel before, and would only run it for a weekend or maybe a week - by the time the started learning the quirks, they'd have gotten a *big* education, then arrived at their destination. Oh, and if you wanna pull hindsight into the fray, the biggest reason we aren't all burning ethanol/methanol is because Congress said "it would take 20 years to change the infrastructure" during the big oil crunch of '73... The work would have been finished almost 10 years ago, and it pollutes one helluva lot less than diesel or gasoline... There's nothing better than waking up, getting out of the cab of your truck at the truckstop at 6 a.m., and taking in a big breath of diesel fumes -- still one of my favorite smells. (Honest - I'm not joking!) but that's why most truckers from the northern parts either 1) shut down their truck for 2 months, or 2) stick to the southern states... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 19:13:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: RK03/RK05/Diablo drives (was Re: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)) In-Reply-To: <20020305191608.46881.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 5, 2 11:16:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/0fd890ac/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 5 19:14:13 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > We had electric heater dipsticks for the auxiliary light-plants on my > drilling rigs. Kept the oil, crankcase and block heated to about 55-60F > even in sub-zero weather. > This is on-topic. I quit roughnecking well over 10 years ago. :o) How many Pentiums does it take to warm a diesel engine? From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 19:26:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > What? No. Enlightenment is _not_ OPENSTEP. At best you can think of it > like this: > > OPENSTEP == Bentley > Enlightenment == Volkswagen Beetle with a Bentley hood kit ACK! No. We don't do Enlightenment here. I have somewhere the source to the "OpenSTEP" window manager for FreeBSD. It predates Enlightenment by a few years. I have no idea where I got it, and as I still can't get NeXTSTEP 3.1 to install, I don't know how authentic it is. Doc P.S. - Enlightenment == a VW with a Bentley hood kit and a boot full of lead. Very Pretty lead, but lead nonetheless. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 19:44:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: RS232 Null Modem Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/b4c8b222/attachment.ksh From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Mar 5 19:47:37 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: [ complete and total snippage about starting diesels ] I don't know *anything* about big diesels, but I remember leaving lit cans of Sterno under the Mercedes 220D on the 20 below nights... Why block heaters aren't a factory default on the Benz, I'll never know. --John From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Mar 5 19:48:11 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Loaded uVAX II (Austin, TX) Message-ID: <20020306014811.GI24998@mrbill.net> I've got a loaded uVAX II in a BA123, available here in Austin, TX. CPU: KA630-AA two DHV11M multiport serial cards one DHQ11M (8line QBus Async serial card) one DEQNAM QBus etheret adapter one TK50 tape drive has two "H3100" ports for serial breakout boxes on the back; not sure if these are connected to the DHV11Ms or the DHQ11M. Unknown RAM/storage; I havent had time to take the machine out of the back of my truck. The front panel covering the storage control buttons is missing; I have the "back flap" cover, but the plastic "hinge" will need to be replaced. Would like to trade for smaller VAX (VAXstation VLC, etc) or later-model (73,83,93, etc) PDP-11 system. WILL NOT SHIP. You gotta come pick it up at my house. 8-) Also have a BC23K 15-pin-to-1BNC mono monitor cable, free... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 19:56:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > > We had electric heater dipsticks for the auxiliary light-plants on my > > drilling rigs. Kept the oil, crankcase and block heated to about 55-60F > > even in sub-zero weather. > > This is on-topic. I quit roughnecking well over 10 years ago. :o) > > How many Pentiums does it take to warm a diesel engine? 483 Intel 54C, 82 AMD K-6 or 1 Cyrix 686.... Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 5 19:56:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020305165935.00afa990@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Mar 5, 2 04:59:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/caffba99/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 5 19:58:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 References: Message-ID: <3C8577C5.FB259FCE@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Yes, pretty expensive. I seem to remember from an 1968-ish catalog, > > seeing prices of a dollar or two for basic 7400 series TTL, like a 7410. > > The more complex chips (more than a few gates) were three or four dollars > > a pop. > > I was actually quoted \pounds 17.00 (or thereabouts) for a 74154 the > other week. Fortunately the 74LS154 was a lot cheaper and would do in the > unit I was repairing.... > > -tony I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else. In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 20:09:16 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: Yes, diesels don't like cold weather, and getting them started can be nasty, tow starting a vehicle that size is a pisser. On the other hand, they'll usually fire in 4-5 feet. I've heard that WD-40 is better than ether, but...our TDNM4509's and %106's had ether cups from the factory. And while the 671 is usually 500HP, it is a pretty good sized beast. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: > > >I have driven diesel engines as a personal vehicle for 170k miles. > >There are tricks to get them started. > > [snip] > > >One thing that works rather well is an ordinary hand held air dryer, > >stuck into the intake manifold. Spraying WD40 works quite well too. > >And a lot less effort. > > For those who think we're getting into a pissing match, I see this as a > serious, but amicable discussion.... That said... > > Those techniques are great, unless it's a 500HP engine you're trying to get > started... I've been around my dad and helped him start, fix, grease, > change tires, etc. his trucks for several *million* miles as a vehicle that > "if it don't run, we don't eat..." > > Trying to get that big of an engine that *doesn't* want to start takes a > *lot* more than a hairdryer & a squirt of WD40... [ Oh, did I mention the 4 > *big honkin'* batteries? ;-) ] > > >Merch, learning about the diesel's quirks is the best way to work with > >them, just like learning a different o/s on a computer. If more people > >had learned about the diesels back in the early 80's, we'd see many more > >on the highways today. And if diesels were so bad, why don't OTR trucks > >go to them??? 'nuff said. > > I never said diesels are bad -- I just said that they don't start for $*it > in the cold, especially if they have a big engine... And the thread started > about people who'd prolly never run a diesel before, and would only run it > for a weekend or maybe a week - by the time the started learning the > quirks, they'd have gotten a *big* education, then arrived at their > destination. > > Oh, and if you wanna pull hindsight into the fray, the biggest reason we > aren't all burning ethanol/methanol is because Congress said "it would take > 20 years to change the infrastructure" during the big oil crunch of '73... > The work would have been finished almost 10 years ago, and it pollutes one > helluva lot less than diesel or gasoline... > > There's nothing better than waking up, getting out of the cab of your truck > at the truckstop at 6 a.m., and taking in a big breath of diesel fumes -- > still one of my favorite smells. (Honest - I'm not joking!) but that's why > most truckers from the northern parts either 1) shut down their truck for 2 > months, or 2) stick to the southern states... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 5 20:10:49 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: And yes, the smell of a diesel firing off in the morning is pleasant. Remember the bumpersticker "Diesel smoke makes me..." On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: > > >I have driven diesel engines as a personal vehicle for 170k miles. > >There are tricks to get them started. > > [snip] > > >One thing that works rather well is an ordinary hand held air dryer, > >stuck into the intake manifold. Spraying WD40 works quite well too. > >And a lot less effort. > > For those who think we're getting into a pissing match, I see this as a > serious, but amicable discussion.... That said... > > Those techniques are great, unless it's a 500HP engine you're trying to get > started... I've been around my dad and helped him start, fix, grease, > change tires, etc. his trucks for several *million* miles as a vehicle that > "if it don't run, we don't eat..." > > Trying to get that big of an engine that *doesn't* want to start takes a > *lot* more than a hairdryer & a squirt of WD40... [ Oh, did I mention the 4 > *big honkin'* batteries? ;-) ] > > >Merch, learning about the diesel's quirks is the best way to work with > >them, just like learning a different o/s on a computer. If more people > >had learned about the diesels back in the early 80's, we'd see many more > >on the highways today. And if diesels were so bad, why don't OTR trucks > >go to them??? 'nuff said. > > I never said diesels are bad -- I just said that they don't start for $*it > in the cold, especially if they have a big engine... And the thread started > about people who'd prolly never run a diesel before, and would only run it > for a weekend or maybe a week - by the time the started learning the > quirks, they'd have gotten a *big* education, then arrived at their > destination. > > Oh, and if you wanna pull hindsight into the fray, the biggest reason we > aren't all burning ethanol/methanol is because Congress said "it would take > 20 years to change the infrastructure" during the big oil crunch of '73... > The work would have been finished almost 10 years ago, and it pollutes one > helluva lot less than diesel or gasoline... > > There's nothing better than waking up, getting out of the cab of your truck > at the truckstop at 6 a.m., and taking in a big breath of diesel fumes -- > still one of my favorite smells. (Honest - I'm not joking!) but that's why > most truckers from the northern parts either 1) shut down their truck for 2 > months, or 2) stick to the southern states... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Mar 5 20:14:45 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > What? No. Enlightenment is _not_ OPENSTEP. At best you can think of it > > like this: > > > > OPENSTEP == Bentley > > Enlightenment == Volkswagen Beetle with a Bentley hood kit > > ACK! No. We don't do Enlightenment here. I have somewhere the > source to the "OpenSTEP" window manager for FreeBSD. It predates > Enlightenment by a few years. I have no idea where I got it, and as I > still can't get NeXTSTEP 3.1 to install, I don't know how authentic it > is. Are you sure you're not confusing OpenSTEP with GNUSTEP? The GNUSTEP stuff was an X11 window manager which captured the look and feel of the NeXTSTEP/OpenSTEP desktop. OpenSTEP proper was just the last generation of NeXTSTEP. The latest release I saw being OpenSTEP 4.2. It ran on Intel/PC, Sun Sparc, and I think PA-RISC. I believe NeXTSTEP 3.3 was the last version to support NeXT black hardware. The OpenSTEP name started with the 4.0 release... by which time NeXT was long dead as a hardware company. And as someone else pointed out, both of those products were far more than mere desktops or window managers. They referred to the entire OS and an amazing Objective-C development framework. Today, of course, this is all known as "Mac OS X". Right down to them using the same goddamned "Bonk" and "Frog" alert sounds from NeXTSTEP. Booting OS X for the first time is the most pleasant memory I've had in maybe my past 5 years of computing. -brian. From tom at sba.miami.edu Tue Mar 5 20:32:23 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:06 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: Good point...I added it to the subject already. :) > If you're asking about a 'generic' module (drive, PSU, etc) that may > well have been used in other machines, then post any identification > that's on that module. I forgot to get the version off the board last night, and unfortunately I left it the lab today, so I'll have to get it later. Anyway, it does have a socketed 40-pin ASIC on it right in the center. The only standard devices I noticed where some 74xx ones, and an LM339 quad comparator. I didn't notice any transistors, and I was sort of wondering how the stepper was driven. I would think that if whatever is driving it is blown, then it wouldn't move at all. I had considered swapping the socketed 40-pin IC between the working and non-working unit, but I don't have proper IC extraction tools, and if its got really flimsy pins on it, I might screw up my only working unit. > I have schematics for 4 versions of the logic board... > > The later ones have a 40 pin ASIC on them. The first worry is that the > stepper control circuit is mostly inside this ASIC, but the actual motor > drivers aren't (they're sections of a ULN2047 chip). The older versions > of the board have the stepper motor circuit built from TTL (which you can > still get) with discrete power transistors for the motor drivers. > > Let me know which version board (or at least if theres a 40 pin chip on > it, or if there are 3 TO66-can power transistors near one edge) and I > will see what I can do to help you debug it. > > -tony > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 5 20:43:31 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Intel/PC, Sun Sparc, and I think PA-RISC. I believe NeXTSTEP 3.3 was >the last version to support NeXT black hardware. The OpenSTEP name Openstep 4.2 still supports the black hardware though most people I've known running NeXT hardware have been running NS 3.3. This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware owners in '99. NS 3.3 definately supported NeXT, Intel, Sparc and HPPA-RISC. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Mar 5 20:53:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR t References: <20020306022251.FYBN2871.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3C85849C.D2ABFDAC@jetnet.ab.ca> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > footnote: > Bush pilots withdraw their engine oil and keep it indoors. > Heat it up and fill engine w/ hot oil just before aircraft's engine > startup. Next you'll be telling me they cook french fries in the hot oil too. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 20:57:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > Are you sure you're not confusing OpenSTEP with GNUSTEP? The GNUSTEP Actually, I was confusing OpenSTEP with the NeXTSTEP GUI. I thought it was just NeXT's desktop. But now I gotta go look through my Linux source archives, because I'm near certain that what I have is an X11 window manager named OpenSTEP. I've used GNUSTEP, AfterSTEP, and their nephew WindowMaker. All cool, but not what I was referring to. Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 5 21:00:21 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS (Jeff Hellige) References: Message-ID: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 5, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Openstep 4.2 still supports the black hardware though most > people I've known running NeXT hardware have been running NS 3.3. > This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware > owners in '99. It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that 4.x on black hardware is slower than pissing tar. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Mar 5 21:16:49 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORt In-Reply-To: <20020306022253.FYBX2871.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: Sadly, though, glow plugs do little to keep the oil thin enough to keep from really hard cold starts. Especially back in the old days when multi-weight oils really weren't. It always cranked, that wasn't a problem. It was tearing up the cylinder walls until the molasses, er, oil could be circulated. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 16:25 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORt > > > > From: "John Chris Wren" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from > Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? > > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:47:37 -0500 > > Importance: Normal > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [ complete and total snippage about starting diesels ] > > > > I don't know *anything* about big diesels, but I remember > leaving lit cans > > of Sterno under the Mercedes 220D on the 20 below nights... Why block > > heaters aren't a factory default on the Benz, I'll never know. > > > > --John > > On friend's 1968 Mercedes 300D 5 cylinders w/ uneven injector box > (throbbing idle), started fine at -15C midnight stone cold > with help from glow plugs. > > Diesel is the way to go for best diesel milage. Too efficient > burn that you don't have any heat left over to play with especially > at no to low loads. On newer diesel cars, crank heat up full, > heaters in coolent passages kicks in. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 5 21:44:53 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Mar 05, 2002 08:57:14 PM Message-ID: <200203060344.g263irR01161@shell1.aracnet.com> > Actually, I was confusing OpenSTEP with the NeXTSTEP GUI. I thought > it was just NeXT's desktop. > But now I gotta go look through my Linux source archives, because I'm > near certain that what I have is an X11 window manager named OpenSTEP. > I've used GNUSTEP, AfterSTEP, and their nephew WindowMaker. All cool, > but not what I was referring to. > > Doc One thing to remember is that the NeXTStep, OPENSTEP GUI is not X-Windows. They had their own windowing system. My guess is that you're thinking about an old version of AfterStep. For years I ran a beta version of AfterStep on AIX, and had it looking identical to NeXTStep. Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 5 21:51:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that 4.x on black > hardware is slower than pissing tar. My cat is glaring at me. From _way_ under the desk. "Damn you, Dave McGuire!" Doc From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 5 21:59:08 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS (Doc) References: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15493.37900.104446.168097@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 5, Doc wrote: > > It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that 4.x on black > > hardware is slower than pissing tar. > > My cat is glaring at me. From _way_ under the desk. > > "Damn you, Dave McGuire!" SCORE! hehehe -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From schickel at psln.com Tue Mar 5 22:10:29 2002 From: schickel at psln.com (Frank Schickel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... Message-ID: <3C8596B5.1E55F8BC@psln.com> Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. I always enjoy the talk about all the classic big iron on the list. (I got my first hands-on on an HP2000-F [later upgraded to Access]). I'm signed up on one of the joke mailing lists and they sent this link out today as our "extra" of the day. Unknown attribution..... http://www.farmjokes.com/email/extra/clearance.jpg Later, Frank -- Join my distributed.net team: Cow County Crackers, at http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=10621 From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Mar 5 23:01:46 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: PDP 7 ?Rescue? References: <172.48f29bc.29b67dac@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C85A2BA.3090907@aurora.regenstrief.org> I'm already too late responding, right? If not, I'd like to know more about it's size. I am certainly quite interested. Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I have a lead on a PDP 7 coming out of service in the Portland Oregon area. > I hope to go look at it on March 19th or 20th. I believe it is still plugged > in but out of service. I think it is a late '60s machine. > > Anyone interested in it please contact me at whoagiii@aol.com, not on the > list please. I am not interested in getting it. I think that there are very > few out there and any left need rescue. > > I will take pictures when I get a chance to look at it. I would like info on > what to look for when I look at the machine. > > Paxton Hoag > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Mar 5 23:21:21 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? Message-ID: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console but no PDP-11/34, what should I do with it? My options are: 1) get a PDP-11/34 2) trade it with something I need more, like a PDP-8/A power regulator(G8018) and limited function panel so that I can build my third PDP-8/A :-) PDP-11s were never really my plan to collect, but I wouldn't mind having one specimen of 2.9 BSD running. So, may be I should get an 11/34? cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ccraft at netgenius.org Tue Mar 5 23:22:00 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02030522220000.02274@ccraft.home> I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... it's only 5 hours' drive from here. Thanks again, Chris. On Tuesday 05 March 2002 16:56, you wrote: > > Bill donzelli is putting together a tripo west. you shoukld contact him > > as he thinks he can carry the decrwriter. > > This is still a good possibility, but anything going west or eastbound > would have to go on the trailer. Caccooning in shrinkwrap, as I posted > before, would be difficult but possible, as the DECwriters are dumb > shapes. I am open to hauling the things regardless - just keep in mind > that it will not ride inside the van. > > So far the trip involves a stop in Chicago, a delivery in Denver, a stop > in Sun City West, a delivery in Los Angeles, and finally some foolishness > in San Francisco. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 5 23:37:14 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: <3C857C85.28528.3C511BC@localhost> Message-ID: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> I got thinking about this on my way to work today. If this has indeed been going on for the last 50 years as Allison said, this makes sense. It was in the 50's that our highway system was laid down.... I think I-94 went through hear in 1957. Also, since the mid 70's (??) much of our manufacturing has gone overseas. The only rail that I can think of around here that has been abandoned is a a section that goes across one of our downtown roads, but I think it was just a very short line that served some of the now closed factories. Everything I hear on TV says that our rail system is way out of date and that it can't keep up with all the traffic. I wonder how that comes into play with this railway abandonment..... I wonder if it helps or hinders. Rails probably don't deteriorate like roads, so I would guess that the problems are more railway management related, signaling systems, traffic management, etc. I know worker fatigue is high too. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Try all over North America. It's been going on for years. The joke of it all is > that transportation gurus are now tending to think that rail is the more > economical way. Better for the environment and causing less damage to > the roads not to mention the congestion and delay of the highways. > It escapes me why they ripped up the track in the first place. The scrap > value of the steel couldn't have offset the cost of doing so and should you > ever change your mind there's no going back except with astronomical costs. > The trucking industry lobby had a finger in the pie methinks. > > Lawrence From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 5 23:41:58 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: Message-ID: <3C85AC26.CB2C714B@internet1.net> Where did all the scrap come from? Industrial machines from closed up factories? New imported steel displacing it? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA William Donzelli wrote: > The 1990s glut of scrap steel changed all of this, however. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 6 00:03:39 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Mostek computers? In-Reply-To: <02030522220000.02274@ccraft.home> Message-ID: I didn't know that Mostek made an entire system? There is one at REPC that someone dropped off. It has two 8" drives, and has a yellow and blue case. It looks like an early vintage system but I don't know much about it. Is anyone familiar with this computer? E. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 00:25:07 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: PDP 7 ?Rescue? In-Reply-To: <3C85A2BA.3090907@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020306002307.G35620-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I'm already too late responding, right? If not, I'd like to know more > about it's size. I am certainly quite interested. > > Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > > I have a lead on a PDP 7 coming out of service in the Portland Oregon > > area. PDP-7, KS10, etc. The times are getting extremely cool. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 00:25:16 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> Message-ID: I imagine one of the contributing factors to the problems with railroads is their intense unionization. Nothing like a union to impede progress. It about took an act of Congress to get them to accept those caboose lamps, instead of cabooses. The only reason it went through was because the railroad could get more profit (one less car to pull), and that goes into the profit sharing plan. Rails and road beds do deteriorate, with and without use. The beds are pretty well laid, but weather just like any berm. Rails rust and pit (when not used regularly), and switches sieze. Tracks periodically need resurfacing (a pretty neat operation, complete with rail cars with lasers mounted on them), and crossings need maintainence (I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect they are some of the more high wear items, especially the ones that still use timber instead of "Parco"). The other problem with rail is that it still takes surface transport to move it from the rail head to the warehouse. As warehouses and manufacturing plants are moved out of cities because of tax reasons, you still have a cost of loading it into a cargo container and moving it to/from the rail head. A rail shipment may also be held until enough cars are destined for a certain area. Next to shipping by boat, shipping by train is probably the slowest method to get something some where, as far as total transit time. A truck can be anywhere in the US in a matter of 4 days. For perishible items, trucks are far more viable. Also, trucks generally ride better than rail cars, so delicate cargoes benefit from the air-ride suspension systems. I indirectly have a project that involves state highway systems. The Eisenhower interstate system has a rule that 1 out of every 5 miles of interstate must be suitable for landing a military aircraft on (I don't know what model. I think this predated the C-130). There are variations in this rule, depending on airport locales, proximity to cities and military bases, etc. But take a look sometime when you get a little ways out from the city. Straight sections of highway, with no bridges, power lines, tall signs, etc. That's the 1 in 5 mile section. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 0:37 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment > > > I got thinking about this on my way to work today. If this has indeed > been going on for the last 50 years as Allison said, this makes sense. > It was in the 50's that our highway system was laid down.... I think > I-94 went through hear in 1957. Also, since the mid 70's (??) much of > our manufacturing has gone overseas. > > The only rail that I can think of around here that has been abandoned is > a a section that goes across one of our downtown roads, but I think it > was just a very short line that served some of the now closed factories. > > Everything I hear on TV says that our rail system is way out of date and > that it can't keep up with all the traffic. I wonder how that comes > into play with this railway abandonment..... I wonder if it helps or > hinders. Rails probably don't deteriorate like roads, so I would guess > that the problems are more railway management related, signaling > systems, traffic management, etc. I know worker fatigue is high too. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Try all over North America. It's been going on for years. The > joke of it all is > > that transportation gurus are now tending to think that rail is the more > > economical way. Better for the environment and causing less damage to > > the roads not to mention the congestion and delay of the highways. > > It escapes me why they ripped up the track in the first place. > The scrap > > value of the steel couldn't have offset the cost of doing so > and should you > > ever change your mind there's no going back except with > astronomical costs. > > The trucking industry lobby had a finger in the pie methinks. > > > > Lawrence > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Mar 6 00:28:17 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Hi, > I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console but no PDP-11/34, what > should I do with it? My options are: How about building a interface board and running a PDP-11 emulator from it? http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/KY11_Interface.htm -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 00:48:40 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: Message-ID: <3C85BBC8.F49C042B@internet1.net> John Chris Wren wrote: > > I imagine one of the contributing factors to the problems with railroads is > their intense unionization. Nothing like a union to impede progress. I don't totally agree, although, I'm not going to argue about it either. > I indirectly have a project that involves state highway systems. The > Eisenhower interstate system has a rule that 1 out of every 5 miles of > interstate must be suitable for landing a military aircraft on (I don't know > what model. I think this predated the C-130). There are variations in this > rule, depending on airport locales, proximity to cities and military bases, > etc. But take a look sometime when you get a little ways out from the city. > Straight sections of highway, with no bridges, power lines, tall signs, etc. > That's the 1 in 5 mile section. I've often wondered about this. I didn't know that 1 in 5 was a requirement, However. I did hear/read somewhere that the original idea about the highway systems was for military transport. Here in Battle Creek, we can land anything. We landed a C5-A ......before the runway was lengthened :-) Air Force One lands just fine too :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vance at ikickass.org Wed Mar 6 00:51:15 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: <3C857C84.24085.3C5118A@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I didn't respond to this thread earlier cause I couldn't find the document. > Don't know whether IBM would prohibit it's availability but I have the > IBM Systems OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Assembler Language manual > 6th ed(1979) > > While I don't want to part with it, I could make it available for scanning. If it's a business-envelope-sized booklet with a yellow cover, then IBM would definitely mind making it available. You can still buy this, and it's not expensive. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Mar 6 00:52:43 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > An IBM 3840 Tape System just came in recently at Purdue University Salvage > and Surplus. The guy that works there (Don) said he would try and figure > out a price for it. The system includes: > > 1) 1x3840 A22 controller > 2) 2x3840 B22 dual-tape drive > 3) 1x3840 B22 dual-tape drive with autochanger. > > The item was in 'unknown status', but appeared to be complete. I've asked > him to hold off on scrapping the system until at least next Tuesday. If > you're interested, contact me off list, and I'll try to see what he'll > want for it(you can make an offer for him). Currently, I don't have any > way to move it or store it (more than a couple days in my apartment that > is) so the pickup would either have to be by Tuesday by you or I'd have to > rent a truck to move it to my place for temporary storage (which I'd ask > $20+truck charges for). > > If no-one's interested by next Tuesday, I'll tell him to go ahead and > scrap it, so make up your minds soon... > > I'll post a price for it as soon as I find one out. I think you mean 3480. I might be interested, and even if I turn out not to be, you should pick it up and sell it to a mainframe surplus joint for $$$. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 6 01:00:09 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Diesel powered casters? From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Mar 6 01:05:24 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62637.62.148.198.97.1015398324.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Jeff Hellige said: >>Intel/PC, Sun Sparc, and I think PA-RISC. I believe NeXTSTEP 3.3 was >>the last version to support NeXT black hardware. The OpenSTEP name > > Openstep 4.2 still supports the black hardware though most > people I've known running NeXT hardware have been running NS 3.3. This > could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware owners in > '99. NS 3.3 definately supported NeXT, Intel, Sparc and HPPA-RISC. > NS 3.3 = i386, HP-PA, Sparc, m68k OpenStep 4 = i386, m68k (HP-PA, Sparc? At least Sparc) OpenStep 4 Runtimes were available for Solaris 2.5 and Windows NT. There used to be a downloadable runtime kit (slightly corrupted) for Solaris on peanuts.org. The runtime ran on top of the original OS. If anyone has Sparcs running 2.5 or similar you might want to give it a go. I just finished installing NS 3.3 on a HP 715/100. It's extremely fast compared to a 68040@25MHz. -- jht From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 6 01:20:15 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <3C8596B5.1E55F8BC@psln.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Frank Schickel > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:10 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... > > > Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. I always enjoy the > talk about all the classic big iron on the list. (I got my first > hands-on on an HP2000-F [later upgraded to Access]). > I'm signed up on one of the joke mailing lists and they sent this > link out today as our "extra" of the day. Unknown attribution..... > > http://www.farmjokes.com/email/extra/clearance.jpg Hmmm. I wonder if the Middle East might be a fun new place to search for old computers? I wonder what kind of interesting systems might turn up there? Are they geek friendly? I really never even considered the idea of searching in the Middle East before. I'll bet that Israel has some vintage stuff, and maybe Egypt to. I'm sure that the far East has tons of cool old computers (along with all the scrap from the US.) E. From vance at ikickass.org Wed Mar 6 01:23:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Isn't that AfterStep, rather than OPENSTEP? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:10:00 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. > > We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has > been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. > > Doc > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Mar 6 01:33:16 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: References: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020306073316.GP24998@mrbill.net> On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:25:16AM -0500, John Chris Wren wrote: > I indirectly have a project that involves state highway systems. The > Eisenhower interstate system has a rule that 1 out of every 5 miles of > interstate must be suitable for landing a military aircraft on (I don't know > what model. I think this predated the C-130). There are variations in this > rule, depending on airport locales, proximity to cities and military bases, > etc. But take a look sometime when you get a little ways out from the city. > Straight sections of highway, with no bridges, power lines, tall signs, etc. > That's the 1 in 5 mile section. Urban legend, sorry. http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzinterstaterunways.htm http://www.snopes2.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 6 01:43:25 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual References: Message-ID: <001201c1c4e2$99657260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Need Shugart 851 manual > > > > There are several versions of the '80x manual, but, unless I completely miss > > my guess, at least one of mine has pin 2 defined for RWC. Now, several of the > > The service manual I have shows pin 2 as not used. There are schematics > for 4 versions of the logic board, and _none_ of them seem to have a RWC > circuit. The earlier versions use discrete components for the write > driver and as far as I can see there's no circuit to reduce the write > current at all. Later versions use an ASIC which might incorporate this > function (the pin '+I2 Sel' (pin 8) looks possible, but it's just tied to > ground on the schematics I have ) > I haven't used an 80x drive, myself, since about 1978, but since I designed numerous FDC's back in the '70's and early '80's, I had to support that function on pin 2 of the cable. Several drive makers kept track of the head position with a couple of up/down counters back before ASICs and microprocessors were common. I'm not sure which versions of the 80x schematic I've looked at, but it's pretty certain I didn't do it after 1980. By that time the negative supply wasn't used any longer and the SHugart folks may have decided they didn't need to reduce their write current. I can't imagine those guys passing up any possible avenue for increasing their drives' effectiveness or reliability, though, and that would certainly have been the effect. > > > It would be really interesting to know which version of the drive the Intel > > folks intended to be used here. For most purposes, the RWC signal generated > > Indeed... > > > internally by the drive itself is perfectly adequate for detecting track 43, > > I've never seen an SA800 (or SA850 for that matter) that does that. Some > later drives have a second slotted optoswitch (in front of the track 0 > sensor) to detect when the head is past cylinder 43, even later ones > which use a microcontroller for the seek control simply used that to keep > a cylinder count and set a port pin appropriately. > several drives generate that signal on the drive by counting the steps using the step and direction signals. No physical sensor is needed. > > > thereby freeing up the signal on pin 2, but only the later versions of the > > Shugart drives used that. The connection to pin 2 was removed from the doc's > > at about the time that they stopped using a negative supply, IIRC. > > At least some versions in my manual need a -ve supply, but none of them > seem to have the RWC input. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I > can't spot it... > I haven't concerned myself with a Shugart 80x manual since '70-something. As a designer of FDC''s, and not of drives, I was concerned with supporting all the functions that were straightforward to provide. Whether a given drive required that function or not was of concern, since it could be ignored if it wasn't used, and it could be bypassed if some other function was needed in its place. It's very possible I could be mistaken about the RWC being required by the 80x series, but I'm quite sure it was used on the earlier drives, e.g. 90x, and on later drives from other vendors. The provision of a TG43 signal on the MFM-capable disk controllers of the late '70's suggests that it might have been used by the drives, though it certainly was needed to enable write precompensation. Reduced write current was normally used over the same range of tracks that required write precompensation. > > > Needless to say, it would be interesting to know whether this controller board > > even uses the head select signal that requisite for two-sided operation. > > I am sure it does NOT. > The reason for my interest is that it's a terrible waste of a two-sided drive putting it in an application incapable of benefitting from its capabilities. I've struggled to dispose of all the single-sided drives I've had over the past decade. At this point, I'm not sure that I have any functional single-sided drives left, but I do still take some time and trouble with the two-sided ones. It seems as though what Joe really needs is to know what was originally intended for a hookup between the controller and the drives, and, as I've mentioned, it appears to me that something's missing. It's not terribly important whether the drive uses RWC if one doesn't know what the relationship between the apparently 100-conductor cable Joe described and the "normal" 50-conductor drive cable was intended to be. As I've said before, it looks to me as though there's intended to be an intermediate circuit of some sort. > From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 02:09:58 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <20020306073316.GP24998@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20020306020456.D35620-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:25:16AM -0500, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > I indirectly have a project that involves state highway systems. The > > Eisenhower interstate system has a rule that 1 out of every 5 miles of > > interstate must be suitable for landing a military aircraft on (I > > don't know what model. I think this predated the C-130). There are > > variations in this rule, depending on airport locales, proximity to > > cities and military bases, etc. But take a look sometime when you get > > a little ways out from the city. Straight sections of highway, with no > > bridges, power lines, tall signs, etc. That's the 1 in 5 mile section. > > Urban legend, sorry. > > http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzinterstaterunways.htm > > http://www.snopes2.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm Hehe. It's hard to land on something that narrow with even a Cessna 152. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From wilby98 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 02:10:09 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORto Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com>; from zmerch@30below.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:59:04PM -0500 References: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> <3.0.1.32.20020305172950.01436ab8@mail.30below.com> <3C85696F.9FA9A898@ccp.com> <3.0.1.32.20020305195904.00ecbda8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020306091009.A4257@xs4all.nl> Several years ago, I worked for a company as a transport driver. It involved driving newly manufactured/modified trucks to their dealers from Elkart, Indianna. Most of these vehicals were for Fedex, UPS, Penske, and a few other truck rental companies. My route was to the east coast. It sure was a different way of life on the road: Going from truckstop tp truckstop where I would do laundry, eat (pretty decent food in large quantities at reasonable prices), sleep (I would string out a hammock in the rear of the truck and sleep there). Well, I could go on with this but back to the issue of cold temp diesel starts. The thing I saw was that most drivers simply did not turn off their engines. They just set them to slow idle. This providied the needed heat in the cab and used relatively little fuel. If I was you guys I would go for the deisel and just not shut it off (except for a few min to refuel, etc). Also, if you are renting and driving a truck with airbrakes and other features, you need a class II license (if I recall correctly). On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:59:04PM -0500, Roger Merchberger wrote: <> > I never said diesels are bad -- I just said that they don't start for $*it > in the cold, especially if they have a big engine... And the thread started > about people who'd prolly never run a diesel before, and would only run it > for a weekend or maybe a week - by the time the started learning the > quirks, they'd have gotten a *big* education, then arrived at their > destination. > <> -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Mar 6 02:18:44 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C857C84.24085.3C5118A@localhost> I didn't respond to this thread earlier cause I couldn't find the document. Don't know whether IBM would prohibit it's availability but I have the IBM Systems OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Assembler Language manual 6th ed(1979) While I don't want to part with it, I could make it available for scanning. Lawrence > Toth, > > Brian Knittel and I would be happy to put your S/370 documents up on > IBM1130.ORG. Its planned organization (i.e. the organization that is not > currently showing on it) includes sections for "related systems," > primarily S/360 and earlier unit record (punched card) systems. But S/370 > is very cool; that'd be great. (Besides, both of us have been looking > for S/370 manuals to help us understand how to administer MVS, VM, and CMS > on Hercules.) > > If you need help scanning, I will try. I have a big backlog of things to > scan, but when I start a pile it goes pretty fast (practice!). > > Norm Aleks > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > > > > IBM docs really are very good and complete - probably more so than > > > anyone else's. They are a pain in the neck to read, unless you can > > > speak the language. > > > > > > The chips (SLTs) are not too bad. They can still be found on scrap IBM > > > boards. Interfacing to them is no big deal - the characteristics are > > > known. > > > > With all the talk of IBM systems and docs today, I remembered I had some > > IBM books put away. I found four 1.5" binders worth, and they all appear > > to be related to S/370 operations and software. If there is any interest > > in these, I'd be willing to scan them if I can find a place to host the > > resulting files. > > > > -Toth > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Mar 6 02:18:45 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR to Yates Center, KS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C857C85.2751.3C511EE@localhost> Well I did this move last summer. 2000 mi from Toronto to north-central Manitoba. I used a 17' UHaul and an 8' enclosed trailer. It cost me about Can$2500 for rental and fuel. That didn't include other incidental costs. I researched the move for options, fairly extensively, and the UHaul choice was the cheapest option available to me. In the US there might be other choices. In Toronto Ryder would only rent one-way long-distance if you were a company. Budget wouldn't do one-way at all. Shared load costs were prohibitive. I considered buying a truck and selling it at the other end but the outlay would have been too much for my budget. I got the truck at 4pm Fri. and loaded alone until 9pm when my son finished work. We loaded until about 8am Sat when it became obvious that the truck wouldn't fit it all. I had reserved an auto transporter trailer to tote my car with and they allowed me to change that to the 8'foot trailer. After picking up the trailer we crashed for about 3 hrs. and finished at around 10pm that evening. The loading time was long because we were moving it out of a basement apartment with narrow doors and of the necessity of jamming all the stuff in yet having it protected. And as a one-time roadie and before that an express truck loader I am able to get 10lbs of Sh-- into a 5 lb box. I arranged to leave my car for later pick-up. I wanted to get out of Toronto at night before sleeping so I would avoid the long weekend (July 1) traffic, and left right away. The first instance of what was to come happened when I entered the expressway and a dip in the road caused the truck to go into a booga-loo and I thought it was going to turn over. I think the only reason it didn't was because of the weight of the trailer. I had to almost stop before it ceased. It continued to do that the whole trip, only I got better at avoiding dips and controlling the sway. Needless to say I had no chance to admire the scenery. It was exhausting. Lesson 1. Don't use the mother's pantry above the cab for heavy objects, such as a record collection or books, no matter how convenient it seems. Since I was alone and with the lack of space in the jammed truck and trailer unloading and redistributing wasn't an option. I arrived at the other end Mon nite and after a good nites sleep had a comparatively easy main floor unload using a 2 wheeler and the built in ramp. A tailgate lift would have taken twice as long. Good 2 and 4 wheel dollies are a must. I have loaded pianos using a ramp and lots of manpower. I returned the Uhauls Wed., took a bus back to Toronto and then drove the car back. All in all a promethian task. Took me a week to recover. If you go the UHaul route make sure they allow you plenty of time for loading, unloading, and travel. Consider a motel for at least one night midway, a good nights sleep in a bed does wonders to regain your strength. Add a bit of space in your estimates, awkward shapes and fragile goods take more room. When loading leave the least valued till last. You might have to abandon some of it. I still regret having to leave the Supermac monitor but not the old clones. If you're moving the next few months remember that late winter snow storms can happen in the mountains and on the prairies. It's no picnic driving a heavily loaded truck on icy roads when you aren't used to it. Good luck Lawrence > > We're now in the planning phases for moving Jim Willing's Computer Garage > from Oregon to Kansas. We're currently looking for the best equipment > option for moving. > > Jim says he probably needs a 24 foot truck. He's currently looking at > U-Haul, which is always a cheap solution, but he's stuck right now > hassling with them over some issues from a prior moves where the trucks > broke down (U-Haul trucks are deathtraps on wheels). > > There are a few other truck rental places we're going to try to get quotes > from (Ryder is asking around $1,500, we haven't checked Budget or Penske > yet), but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions? > > Jim's original plan was to load the Computer Garage contents into the > truck and then tow his Suburban from the truck. I am suggesting that he > rent or even buy a big trailer and use the Suburban to haul the trailer. > Jim is going to ask some of these places if they will rent trailers one > way (I don't see why not). I think my suggestion to buy a trailer would > be cool if he can't since it may be cheaper than renting a truck, and he > can always use it for other stuff, or sell it when he gets back to Kansas. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Mar 6 02:18:45 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <001c01c1c459$c4bc6920$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <3C857C85.28528.3C511BC@localhost> Try all over North America. It's been going on for years. The joke of it all is that transportation gurus are now tending to think that rail is the more economical way. Better for the environment and causing less damage to the roads not to mention the congestion and delay of the highways. It escapes me why they ripped up the track in the first place. The scrap value of the steel couldn't have offset the cost of doing so and should you ever change your mind there's no going back except with astronomical costs. The trucking industry lobby had a finger in the pie methinks. Lawrence > From: Chad Fernandez > > > >Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > >it a national trend? > > > Try around NY, Boston and east coast in general, especially the metro > regions. Many of the rails have been abandoned over the last 50 years > and are being removed infavor of many uses from trails to roads. > > A big waste if you ask me. > > Allison > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 03:01:24 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> <20020306073316.GP24998@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3C85DAE4.A175F0BC@internet1.net> Oh. Well I have often pondered it on my way to work any ways :-) (it's 45 miles, so I have awhile). I did wonder about things like overpasses, turnarounds, trees, and cement barriers. I'd never heard of the 1 in 5 myth until tonight. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bill Bradford wrote: > Urban legend, sorry. > > http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzinterstaterunways.htm > > http://www.snopes2.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Mar 6 03:02:37 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... Message-ID: Hm, Original Wang PCs and a few old terminals mixed in. Looks like slim pickings to me. Paxton From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 03:26:57 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... References: Message-ID: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old Wangs. Same article that stated that 2 year old computers from the IRS were going to Afghanistan, for the new government. I could help but wonder why we were getting rid of two year old computers..... as they were scheduled to be decommissioned before they were going to Afghanistan. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > Hm, Original Wang PCs and a few old terminals mixed in. Looks like slim > pickings to me. > > Paxton From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 6 03:37:04 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: Re: Here's a link you all might like.... (Chad Fernandez) References: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15493.58176.19456.338399@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old > Wangs. Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of dickheads? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 6 04:03:44 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >On March 5, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Openstep 4.2 still supports the black hardware though most >> people I've known running NeXT hardware have been running NS 3.3. >> This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware >> owners in '99. > > It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that 4.x on black >hardware is slower than pissing tar. I've never tried Openstep on the black hardware. Is it that much slower than NS 3.3? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 6 04:15:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ernest wrote: > Hmmm. I wonder if the Middle East might be a fun new place to search > for old computers? I wonder what kind of interesting systems might > turn up there? Are they geek friendly? I really never even considered > the idea of searching in the Middle East before. I'll bet that Israel > has some vintage stuff, and maybe Egypt to. I'm sure that the far East > has tons of cool old computers (along with all the scrap from the US.) Let me try to lend some perspective. The greater Middle East has been a poor region for a long time. During the days when computers were first being developed, a majority of the Middle East was still a relic of the stone age. Running water and electricity in a home ("home" in this sense could also mean a structure made of stones and mud) was still a luxury for the majority of the population. When microcomputers hit the scenes, most ME nations were in the beginning stages of modernization. Toilets that flushed (as opposed to a cemented hole in the ground) were still a luxury, and traffic lights in major metropolitan areas started to pop up. Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, most ME nations were continuing their efforts to modernize. Countries like Iraq and Iran were engaged in a brutal war, Lebanon was under seige from Israel, Syria was (and still is) in a declared state of war with Israel, and countries like Jordan and Egypt were still developing. Technological advancement in these countries was slow, if moving at all. Oil rich nations like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were much farther along due to their wealth and friendly relations with the US. Most of the citizenry of ME nations up through the 1980s were simple peasants, concerned more with raising their crops and animals to subsist. The city dwellers were perhaps more sophisticated and may have heard of computers, but they would have still been far too expensive to own, if they were even allowed to own them at all. People of Egypt, after the country made peace with Israel in the late 1970s, had a likelier chance of getting their hands on computers due to embargoes being lifted and economic aid from the US. However, they still would have been tremendously expensive. When I last visited relatives in Syria in 1999, I was only a little surprised to see PCs in most of the upper scale shops in town that sold jewelry or western style clothing. However, computers were still out of reach to the majority of the population. I was very surprised to find even one clasic computer at all. One of my uncles had an Atari 130XE that had been fitted with a ROM that replaced the Latin font with an Arabic script font. Unfortunately, the machine wasn't working anymore (some sort of RAM problem). I tried to fix it there but lacked the necessary tools to troubleshoot it. So I took it home with me with the promise of fixing it and returning it to him, which I never got around to unfortunately. However, in the meantime, he managed to buy a PC, which surprised me a bit. I don't know how much it cost him, or anything about it, but I imagine it runs some form of Windows 9x and has Arabic as the default system font. As an aside, this uncle was one of the first people in Syria in the 1960s to be sent to France to receive computer training, so his interest in computers is strong. Syria is still in the early stages of technological modernization. The current president, Bashaar Assad, is western educated (UK) and is very progressive. He's currently trying to bring the Internet to Syria (they have a link up but it's only open to government employees currently). Before he succeeded his father, he formed a "computer society" inside Syria, so his interest in computers is evident. As everyone is most likely aware, the problem with bringing the internet into ME countries is that the governments want to try to control the content, for various political and social reasons (political dissent, porn, etc.) As we all know, try as they might, they won't be able to control it, so the way I see it, their options are either to just open it up and let everyone benefit from the largest source of knowledge ever created, thereby enriching their people and contributing to their prosperity, or close it off entirely and continue to remain backwards. In summary, finding classic computers in any Middle Eastern country would be a mostly futile endeavor. Perhaps in countries that have been historically more wealthy, such as the Gulf states, you might have more luck, but government policies may have restricted the ownership of computers by individuals. You certainly won't find any machines from home grown companies, and I would be completely dumbfounded if a homebrew machine turned up. Israel is a different story altogether, being that it has basically been the 52nd US State for the past 50 years (Canada is the 51st :) In 1985 my sister went to Syria to visit relatives and I sent my uncle a letter that I had typed up on my dinky Aquarius computer with a 40-column thermal printer. My sister later told me that my uncle was angry that I didn't take the time to write the letter by hand. I imagine he thought the computer printout was too impersonal :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 6 04:27:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS (Jeff Hellige) References: <15493.34373.34783.935375@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15493.61194.484634.794098@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Openstep 4.2 still supports the black hardware though most > >> people I've known running NeXT hardware have been running NS 3.3. > >> This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware > >> owners in '99. > > > > It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that 4.x on black > >hardware is slower than pissing tar. > > I've never tried Openstep on the black hardware. Is it that > much slower than NS 3.3? Unbelievably so, yes. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Mar 6 06:55:22 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: References: <000d01c1c454$801bff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020306075522.00816d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Tony said: > >I am wondering what's wrong with the original drives. IMHO it'd be a lot >easier to repair them. Docs exist, and it's not hard to find other drives >to take parts from. The worst job is replacing the head (as you have to >do a full alignment), but even that would probably take less time than >you've spent so far. > Nothing is wrong with them. I want to connect up a couple more drives on my system and checkout some drives to send to someone else that's missing some. I expect I could hook up drives easily if I ignored the adapater cards and strange addressing but I'm trying to understand what intel was doing. To answer an earlier question: I think all of these use the 800-3 model drives. That's what I remember seeing in a couple of them but I haven't checked two of the boxs and it's chore to get them out of the rack and then out of the cases to read the model number. Joe From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Mar 6 07:27:48 2002 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305152808.03286a50@127.0.0.1> References: <3C857C85.28528.3C511BC@localhost> <001c01c1c459$c4bc6920$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020306082748.0106b62c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:41 PM 3/5/02 -0600, you wrote: >As for the environmentalists, the fact that they never picked up on rail >travel as the most environmentally responsible way of shipping over land >has floored me. It's been proven time after time after time that moving >goods overland via rail is the MOST environmentally friendly way of >shipment over long distances. It takes much less fuel to move items over >rail than rubber. Don't get me started on this... Most of the american environmentalists that I know own SUV's. I know of one instance when a large study of the options available for 21st century ground transportation was commissioned by the DOT; a very capable researcher was chosen to do it, but after he had begun he was told to specifically leave out any public mass transportation options (he had included that option in his proposal). It was later known that DOT officials could not afford to have a study that recommended such options because they were owned by Detroit. This was in the Reagan-Bush years. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 07:54:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A676@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > A rail shipment may also be held until enough cars are destined for a > certain area. Next to shipping by boat, shipping by train is probably the > slowest method to get something some where, as far as total transit time. A > truck can be anywhere in the US in a matter of 4 days. For perishible > items, trucks are far more viable. Also, trucks generally ride better than > rail cars, so delicate cargoes benefit from the air-ride suspension systems. I've been told UPS has started holding the ground trucks until they fill up, where they used to have a timer; timer fires, truck rolls, full or not. When fuel costs jumped a couple of years ago they changed this. May not be true... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 07:57:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A677@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I got thinking about this on my way to work today. If this has indeed > been going on for the last 50 years as Allison said, this makes sense. > It was in the 50's that our highway system was laid down.... I think > I-94 went through hear in 1957. Also, since the mid 70's (??) much of > our manufacturing has gone overseas. I suggest you watch the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" again, this time, keeping in mind that's its not fiction, but allegory... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 08:01:03 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, ORt Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A678@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Sadly, though, glow plugs do little to keep the oil thin enough to keep > from really hard cold starts. Especially back in the old days when > multi-weight oils really weren't. It always cranked, that wasn't a problem. > It was tearing up the cylinder walls until the molasses, er, oil could be > circulated. I'd suggest trying Mobile One synthetic oil... if it can find leaks that no other oil can find on your engine, it should be alble to flow into all the places oil needs to go... -dq From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 08:23:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <15493.58176.19456.338399@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > dickheads? You know who was the world's first computer operator? Doc From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Mar 6 08:46:18 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:07 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems Message-ID: VT55 with integrated printer Not thermal or electrostatic >From 1977 until about 1980 we actually used the terminals to print graphics from bacterial growth curves. The paper exited the side of the terminal. We usually attached a weighted paper clamp to help pull the paper out of the printer. The printer was placed so the paper hung down off the side of the desk or table. The paper was initially wet and came in foil enclosed rolls. The printer generated a spark to discolor the paper at the correct spot, kind of a brownish printing. The paper didn't work if it was dry. Also there was a problem with fungus growth on opened rolls of paper that weren't used for a long time. Maybe caused by the microbiology lab environment. Speed of the paper motion was important, nothing like looking at plots with varied plot speed, scrunched graphs. Picture of the internals of the printer is at http://vt100.net/docs/vt5c-op/ Picture of the printer with the paper hanging out the side is http://vt100.net/docs/vt55e-tm/ Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu At 02:23 PM 3/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >--- John Chris Wren wrote: >> This sounds like a machine I used to work on. PDP-8/a, two floppy >> drives, a VT-50 terminal that looked like it could have been provisioned >> for an internal thermal printer, and ours had a LA-36. > >Yep... they sold a bunch of them. The printer inside the VT-50 case >wasn't thermal, BTW. The "1976-1977 pdp-8/a minicomputer handbook" calls >it an "electrolytic copier" under the entry for the VT-61. My memory of >working with them was that they used funky paper and there was a wet >wiper brush that moistened the paper as it exited the printer. Perhaps >it squeegeed it. I don't recall any more. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/f8f5bf6c/attachment.html From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 08:46:57 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <20020306073316.GP24998@mrbill.net> Message-ID: This is interesting. I'll have to pass it on the people doing the research at the university. My "fact" was based on their "fact", so I'm guilty of propogating unconfirmed information. I had heard of the 1-in-5 for years, but figured talking to someone who did research for NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) would know better than I. This should be something you'd think they know about, since they have to worry about all the other factors, like banking, minimum radius of exit/entry ramps, lane widths, etc. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:33 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment > > > On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 01:25:16AM -0500, John Chris Wren wrote: > > I indirectly have a project that involves state highway > systems. The > > Eisenhower interstate system has a rule that 1 out of every 5 miles of > > interstate must be suitable for landing a military aircraft on > (I don't know > > what model. I think this predated the C-130). There are > variations in this > > rule, depending on airport locales, proximity to cities and > military bases, > > etc. But take a look sometime when you get a little ways out > from the city. > > Straight sections of highway, with no bridges, power lines, > tall signs, etc. > > That's the 1 in 5 mile section. > > Urban legend, sorry. > > http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzinterstaterunways.htm > > http://www.snopes2.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Mar 6 08:58:08 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) Message-ID: In the last 50+ years, some 150,000 miles of railroad track have been abandoned. At 100 pounds/yard or more for mainline track rail, that's a lot of steel. As to who is paying for the scrapping, the railroad, or often a bankruptcy court, would bid it out to scrappers -- the same people (as a general class) who will take an old computer and cut the edge connector off a board in order to recover the gold. Might not seem like an economical thing to do, but these people can make a living out of it. Also, remember that in the 50's and 60's (and even earlier for most electric interurban lines) steel was worth more. When the railroads converted to diesel in the late 40's/early 50's, most of the steam locomotives were sold for scrap. Nothing sinister about it, just made economic sense at the time. The subsidies that went into highway construction and trucking are another matter, though, but that is too OT to go into. Still, we can't blame the interstate system for all railroad failures, as many began their decline in the 30's and 40's. Most electric streetcar lines and interurbans here in the midwest were replaced by busses by the mid 50's. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR toYates On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that happening. Is > > it a national trend? > > We've had quite a lot ripped out here in Oregon. This does beg the question... Who exactly is paying for this, and to what gain? I think someone's point of it not really being cost- effective (even for the scrap) is worth investigating. Maybe it is. I can't imagine it's more expensive to produce a ton of steel from salvaged rails than it is to do the same from iron ore. Still, it'd be interesting to know who's fronting the labor to do it, and what money is backing it. -brian. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 09:06:59 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reminds me of the old Wang technicians unofficial saying: "You've got to bang your Wang to keep it working!" (picture of an outline of a person holding a hammer). --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:24 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Here's a link you all might like.... > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > > dickheads? > > > > You know who was the world's first computer operator? > > Doc > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 09:23:28 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > > dickheads? > > > > You know who was the world's first computer operator? If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick tossed in your direction immediately... 8-> -dq From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 09:37:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > As to who is paying for the scrapping, the railroad, or often a bankruptcy > court, would bid it out to scrappers -- the same people (as a general class) > who will take an old computer and cut the edge connector off a board in > order to recover the gold. Might not seem like an economical thing to do, > but these people can make a living out of it. Also bear in mind that track isn't mild steel (C54? My memory fails me) High-tensile steel with no contaminants - paint, plastics, galvanization, etc. - is worth several times as much as general quality scrap iron. Add to that the fact that the railroads are taxed by both Feds and state, at least in Texas, according to track mileage. At that point, pulling unused track is VERY cost-effective, without even considering the PR, umm, _mileage_ the railroad gets for creating new parklands. Doc From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 09:41:04 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: SOL-20 keyboard (fwd) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > As you will note, Barry authorized this posting. As of this date, I've tried three or four times to contact barry, with no response yet. If any SOL jocks *have* been able to contact him, could you have him contact me? TIA! -dq > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:24:45 -0500 > From: Barry A. Watzman > To: 'Don Maslin' > Subject: RE: SOL-20 keyboard > > I won't but you may if you want to. > > Barry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:05 AM > To: Barry A. Watzman > Subject: Re: SOL-20 keyboard > > > > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Barry A. Watzman wrote: > > > By the way, in 1977 I made and sold a SOL-20 keyboard > modification kit > > that included a new ROM for the keyboard and new keytops. > The new ROM > > made the high order bit of the numeric keypad keys a "1" > instead of a > > "0". This made it possible to distinguish between the keys in the > > numeric keypad and the numeric keys in the top row of the normal > > keyboard (in the stock keyboard, these different keys > produced exactly > > the same output). This was transparent to normal > applications because > > they normally did an "ANI 7FH" anyway, stripping this bit, but it > > could be used by an application if the application wanted to do so. > > > The new keytops had word processing legends instead of numbers, and > > really was made for the "Electric Pencil" and "Wordstar" word > > processors. The keytops were actually made by Keytronic (I > had to pay > > tooling charges, about $1,000 (those were 1977 dollars, it was about > > one-fourth the price of a new car)) and and matched the SOL keyboard > > exactly. > > > > I have a few of these kits left in a box in the basement. If anyone > > wants them, they are $25. What I'm not sure of is if I have the > > installation instructions anywhere. > > > > [If anyone takes me up on this, I'm actually going to have > to FIND that > > box, which may be easier said than done.] > > > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 09:43:23 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts [fwd] Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> The following message is of sufficient interest to SOL and Altair-era listers that I'm forwarding it without asking its original poster; while perhaps not perfect netiquette, I'm hoping the list has no rule banning it. -dq From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts Date: 5 Mar 2002 13:31:26 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-479.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: news.iglou.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1 .gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn2feed! wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!209.155.233.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp .newsguy.com!drn Xref: news-incoming.iglou.com alt.folklore.computers:264561 I am searching for keyboard parts for restoration of a vintage microcomputer, my Sol-20. In some recent research, I've learned that the Sun5 keyboard contains the type of keyboard contact pads that are used in the Sol. I've found a place that will sell used Sun5 keyboards for $15 plus shipping, but I figure somebody in the alt.folklore.computers readership might have an old Sun5 keyboard sitting around they might part with cheaply, since this is for a good cause. I haven't torn apart my Sol kbd yet, but it is well known that this keyboard used foam contact pads that deteriorated with age, so most Sol CPUs function but cannot be used because there's no keyboard input. You can replace the foam pads and they keyboard will work, but the trick is finding the pads. There are many Keytronics keyboards that use these foam pads, but I've been unable to locate any on the local surplus market. I should be able to pick this up cheaper than $15+shipping, but it looks like I'll have to order a used Sun5 kbd and it will set me back $25. All this for $0.50 worth of foam pads that I could cannibalize from a scrap $2 keyboard...IF I could find the right keyboard. The sole vendor of Sol kbd restoration parts has disappeared, I heard he's having financial difficulty. Bummer. So if anyone has a spare Sun5 keyboard, or other keyboard that might contain suitable foam-pad parts for cannibalization, please email me at ceicher@inav.net and I will be eternally grateful. My Sol will be happy too. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Mar 6 09:45:31 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... References: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C86399B.9483ECD9@ccp.com> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old > Wangs. Same article that stated that 2 year old computers from the IRS > were going to Afghanistan, for the new government. I could help but <----------- > wonder why we were getting rid of two year old computers..... as they > were scheduled to be decommissioned before they were going to > Afghanistan. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > They were probably unuseable with the latest version of Winblows. You know politicians, they love to spend money, especially when it is OURS. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Mar 6 09:52:23 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67A@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020306105223.00f597f8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Douglas Quebbeman may have mentioned these words: >> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: >> >> > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of >> > dickheads? >> >> >> >> You know who was the world's first computer operator? > >If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick >tossed in your direction immediately... No... No... You mean "Richard _Cranium_" Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From msell at ontimesupport.com Wed Mar 6 09:53:18 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: References: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306091854.00aae218@127.0.0.1> The biggest cause for decline for railroading in the 60's and 70's was World War 2. Believe it or not, WWII was very detrimental to the American railroads. The government imposed restrictions on pricing for shipment; these restrictions were to keep "the evil railroads" from making "windfall profits" (sound familiar? kinda like those "evil oil companies" today....). The traffic levels were the highest in history. Coming out of the Great Depression, railroads were faced with the prospect of having to pour huge amounts of money into infrastructure to improve roadbed, bridges, and to purchase new rolling stock and locomotives. Purchasing new equipment wasn't enough, though, and the railroads had to waste large amounts of time and money rebuilding equipment that was going to be retired or scrapped. In order to meet demand, the railroads were having to make 40 and 50-year old equipment ready for heavy use. During the war, maintenance on equipment was deferred. Rail lines couldn't be taken out for critical service, like replacing ties, regrading ballast, cleaning ballast, resurfacing rail, and so on. Every available locomotive and freight/passenger car was needed to support the immense traffic that was generated by the industries in full war-production mode. After the war ended, the government wouldn't allow the railroads to increase shipping rates to required levels to pay for the deferred maintenance. At the time, the Interstate Commerce Commission restricted the rates the railroads could charge shippers. The ICC didn't want to make shippers mad, so they blamed the "evil railroads" for attempting to gouge the customer, and the rates weren't allowed to increase to the level required to pay back the demands of WWII. As the road system in America improved, people wanted to travel by car and plane rather than by train. Again, the government decided to screw the railroads - the railroads weren't allowed to stop passenger service on routes that were losing money. And so it went - the rail system was in such a horrible shape due to deferred maintenance, shipping rates were artificially low, and the general public abandoned the rail passenger system. Railroad "giants" like the Pennsylvania and the New York Central had to merge to stay alive. Later, the government finally formed Conrail to prevent the virtual collapse of the North-Eastern rail network. Conrail was formed from the Penn Central and several other once great railroads. Then the abandonment of whole rail networks began. It's been only within the last 10-20 years that railroads have been making a comeback. There are expansions happening, some lines that were single-tracked to save money are now being double-tracked to handle the increased capacity. Some railroads are even attempting to break back into the "LCL" (less than carload) market again, and with the ability to use the Internet to book and track shipments and pay with credit cards. This may sound trivial to us as consumers, since we have been doing that for a while with companies like FedEx and UPS, but for an industry that is 172 years old - it's a step in the right direction. We now resume our regularly scheduled computer broadcast. This has been a test of the emergency "off-topic" system. : ) Really though, the application of technology with the railroad system is fascinating. Remote control of locomotives, satellite monitoring, automatic throttle corrections based on GPS positioning, centralized traffic control, it's all a very neat segment of technology to be interested in. - Matt At 01:25 AM 3/6/2002 -0500, you wrote: > I imagine one of the contributing factors to the problems with > railroads is >their intense unionization. Nothing like a union to impede progress. It >about took an act of Congress to get them to accept those caboose lamps, >instead of cabooses. The only reason it went through was because the >railroad could get more profit (one less car to pull), and that goes into >the profit sharing plan. From sst at vmunix.dk Wed Mar 6 09:57:26 2002 From: sst at vmunix.dk (Sune Stjerneby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020306165726.A83825@fnyx.vmunix.dk> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: [snip] > This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware > owners in '99. You happen to have any idea how this was done? Public FTP, shipped CDs or some other form? I'm looking for a NeXTstep release; vendors only seem to ship OpenStep these days (if at all; it's been a while since I contacted one). -- Sune Stjerneby - Part of an RFC 1876-compliant network. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 10:10:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > > > dickheads? > > > > > > > > You know who was the world's first computer operator? > > If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick > tossed in your direction immediately... Well, it isn't the notorious R. Head, but the Nerf bricks will likely fly anyway. The very first computer operator was Eve, with an Apple at one hand and a Wang at the other. Doc, ducking and running... From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 6 10:15:12 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: New Finds for museum this week Message-ID: <002e01c1c52a$19584c80$5a8d70d8@default> Got these two items for free; a HP 150 II (no keyboard) and a Atari SM124 monitor. For $10 I got Power Mac 5400/120 (has a bad hard drive). My Microvision system arrived with 3 game cartridges and works great (for what it does). Got a great book titled Modern Computer Concepts-The IBM 360 Series by Edward J. Laurie. It's stamped inside as being a "EXAMINATION COPY" and was printed in 1970. It has 926 pages and lots of great pictures. Only cost 50 cents at a thrift here. Won a Brainiac (1959) kit computer on eBay it looks almost complete and will make a great display item. Now if I could only find a Geniac for cheap. :-) I asked before and never got one answer but does anyone have a extra Hero Jr remote control that they would like to sell? From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 10:21:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts [fwd] In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > and they keyboard will work, but the trick is finding the pads. There are many > Keytronics keyboards that use these foam pads If you know exactly _which_ Keytronics kbds do this trick, and you need one/some let me know. I may be able to get a couple. Lots cheaper than Sun equipment.... Doc From jyount at wallacehardware.com Wed Mar 6 10:25:51 2002 From: jyount at wallacehardware.com (Jonah Yount) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: 30 TK50 Tapes For Sale Message-ID: <005501c1c52b$9529e160$c9b61bcc@wallacehardware.com> Hello, I was referred to your email address when asking someone where I might be able to find a buyer for 30 TK50 tapes I possess that are no longer used. If you're not interested in buying these, do you know of anyone who would like them? Do you have a forum that I could post these on? I appreciate any assistance or info you could give me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/c96ad944/attachment.html From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Mar 6 10:27:50 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <62637.62.148.198.97.1015398324.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <62637.62.148.198.97.1015398324.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <20020306162749.GA5311842@uiuc.edu> Jarkko Teppo said: > > NS 3.3 = i386, HP-PA, Sparc, m68k > OpenStep 4 = i386, m68k (HP-PA, Sparc? At least Sparc) > > OpenStep 4 Runtimes were available for Solaris 2.5 and Windows NT. There > used to be a downloadable runtime kit (slightly corrupted) for Solaris on > peanuts.org. > > The runtime ran on top of the original OS. If anyone has Sparcs running 2.5 > or similar you might want to give it a go. > > I just finished installing NS 3.3 on a HP 715/100. It's extremely fast > compared to a 68040@25MHz. Really? Where might one be able to get this? I'm interested in trying it out... > -- > jht > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 6 10:37:43 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console but no PDP-11/34, what > How about building a interface board... Anybody have the signal line assignments? John A. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Mar 6 10:54:53 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts [fwd] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203061654.KAA21872@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > and they keyboard will work, but the trick is finding the pads. There are many > > Keytronics keyboards that use these foam pads > > If you know exactly _which_ Keytronics kbds do this trick, and you > need one/some let me know. I may be able to get a couple. Lots cheaper > than Sun equipment.... > > Doc > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Mar 6 10:57:55 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts [fwd] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203061657.KAA21909@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > and they keyboard will work, but the trick is finding the pads. There are > > many Keytronics keyboards that use these foam pads > > If you know exactly _which_ Keytronics kbds do this trick, and you > need one/some let me know. I may be able to get a couple. Lots cheaper > than Sun equipment.... > > Doc > Seems to me that if someone is going to all this trouble to tear apart a keyboard and replace all the pads, they might as well use brand new pads. Just contact Keytronic, I think the pads are only about 10 cents each. They sure made my Terak keyboard work great, I can even play Asteroids now ;) -Lawrence LeMay From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 6 11:06:37 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: "Computer Museum of Canada" References: Message-ID: <026201c1c531$471f7d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have an article here entitled "Computer Museum of Canada launched" (IEEE Computer Aug84) Did this happen? Says here that $12M was allocated for use to build in Toronto. The money donated by Abe Schwartz of PolarisTech. John A. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 11:08:46 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A676@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C864D1E.7AD57FF3@internet1.net> Wow, so they covered there fuel costs twice it seems..... they charged a premium fuel fee as well. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I've been told UPS has started holding the ground trucks > until they fill up, where they used to have a timer; timer > fires, truck rolls, full or not. When fuel costs jumped a > couple of years ago they changed this. May not be true... > > -dq From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 11:10:50 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A677@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C864D9A.E7E5FC84@internet1.net> I didn't think I ever seen it all the way through. What does it have to do with railways and highways? Is it possible to fall in love with a cartoon :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I got thinking about this on my way to work today. If this has indeed > > been going on for the last 50 years as Allison said, this makes sense. > > It was in the 50's that our highway system was laid down.... I think > > I-94 went through hear in 1957. Also, since the mid 70's (??) much of > > our manufacturing has gone overseas. > > I suggest you watch the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" again, > this time, keeping in mind that's its not fiction, but allegory... > > -dq From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 11:15:59 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment References: <3C85AB0A.C2CB6BF1@internet1.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020306091854.00aae218@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C864ECF.55CFB827@internet1.net> Lets just hope anything new in the railroad industry isn't "powered by Microsoft". We'd have even more derailments!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Matthew Sell wrote: > Really though, the application of technology with the railroad system is > fascinating. Remote control of locomotives, satellite monitoring, automatic > throttle corrections based on GPS positioning, centralized traffic control, > it's all a very neat segment of technology to be interested in. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 11:16:51 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... References: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> <15493.58176.19456.338399@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C864F03.659B3F4E@internet1.net> It wasn't staffed at all. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > > On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I > > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old > > Wangs. > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > dickheads? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 11:20:03 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations Message-ID: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> I need to find a good email/web hosting service. Yes, this is on-topic. Right now, subatomix.com (my mail server) is a machine in my house, connected via residential cable modem service. This has some cool factor for me, but there are disadvantages: (0) The system has to up and stable 24/7; I can't play with it in ways that might interrupt that. (1) The cable modem connection goes down every now and then, sometimes for several hours. (2) I'm not too knowledgeable at mail administration; there's a good probability that this machine is not as secure as it could be. On top of that stuff, a credible source inside the cable company says that I will be eventually switched over from RoadRunner to the cable company's own network. According to the source, areas where the switches are occurring (mostly those served by @Home, but RoadRunner is next) are experiencing repeated, prolonged outages. So I need list members' recommendations on a good email/web hosting service. If you work for such a service, feel free to suggest it if it is a good service. What I want is: (0) Email hosting for 5 addresses at subatomix.com. It needs to handle several hundred emails per day (peak) and the occasional large file mailed to me. (1) Web hosting for my as-yet-unfinished personal web site. The largest part of the site will be an exposition of my collection like that of many others here. I plan on having a lot of pictures, and the service needs the capacity to hold them. (See it *is* on-topic). (2) Encrypted communications, or at least my passwords not sent over the network in cleartext. (3) The servers running some UNIX and administered by competent people. (4) A flat fee. (5) If I use their DNS servers, the ability to point foo.subatomix.com to a certain IP address. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 6 11:33:06 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: Re: Here's a link you all might like.... (Chad Fernandez) References: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> <15493.58176.19456.338399@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C864F03.659B3F4E@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15494.21202.14400.310845@phaduka.neurotica.com> It was a joke, Chad. You know...a joke? -Dave On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > It wasn't staffed at all. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I > > > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old > > > Wangs. > > > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > > dickheads? > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 11:39:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: DECdatasystems In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020305165935.00afa990@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20020306173931.34785.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Uban wrote: > At 02:23 PM 3/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >The printer inside the VT-50 case > >was... an "electrolytic copier" > > That sounds like a Versatec printer, which used an electrostatic process > to attach the carbon suspended in the liquid toner... Not the same thing, but thinking of odd and forgotten printing technologies, I am reminded of a 16-gray-scale plotter device that used special multi- layer paper that was ablated in differing amounts by a spark. The stronger the spark, the deeper the coating was removed, the darker the pixel. We used it to print digitized images of industrial parts that were scanned in an ultrasonic tank at about 1/1000" resolution (1/2" diameter part displayed on a 512x512 "hi-res" monitor). The whole shooting match was driven by a PDP-11/73 running TSX-11 from a Fuji Eagle. ISTR it was about $20K worth of computer and disk (including 4MB RAM, disk controllers, RLV12/RL02, serial cards, etc.), plus scanner plus plotter in 1987. The pictures of internal flaws were pretty cool. Unfortunately due to NDA issues, I didn't get to take any with me to hang on the wall after the project was done. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 11:44:58 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A84@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > near certain that what I have is an X11 window manager named OpenSTEP. > I've used GNUSTEP, AfterSTEP, and their nephew WindowMaker. All cool, > but not what I was referring to. Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with OpenWindows (OpenLook), which was a SUN environment, and is, in fact, relatively well replicated on linux. In fact, I'd say that byte-for-byte it's the most complete, useable desktop environment available under Linux today. Much better than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, etc, have become. ...but it's not OpenStep. It's neither as elegant nor as complete as the NeXT environment, IMO. It's also not as pretty ;) Actually, WindowMaker is the "official" window management component of the GNUStep project. It's a (small, but visible) subset of GNUStep, in other words, and not separate. GNUStep consists of lots of UI libraries, supporting utilities (or it should have those by now, rather -- I haven't checked in a while), and misc. other stuff. All of that, when coupled with the window manager should eventually give one an environment which is source compatible with OpenStep on other platforms. It's unfortunate that the project isn't further along. (finished!) I tried to compile the whole of GNUStep (all that was available) for Linux several years ago, and there wasn't anywhere near enough to work with at that point. I ended up deleting everything but the window manager. :) I may try again soon. There's another NeXT like WM named Bowman, on which AfterStep is based. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 11:45:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A85@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > *never* heard VMS > > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. > We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has > been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. Yes. Right. Nope. :) That is, GNUStep is far from OpenSTEP. It is still a work in progress, and while it has a very nice NeXT like window manager for X11, it's not a complete OpenSTEP environment by any means. It's also not a port, but a re-implementation from specs. What I am talking about would be a port -- of OpenSTEP (not NeXTSTEP), to VMS on Alpha. (There is a FAQ somewhere that explains OpenSTEP vs. NeXTSTEP [vs. NeXTStep...) In a nutshell, I believe that NeXTStep refers to a subset of NeXTSTEP licensed to IBM at one point. NeXTSTEP is the full original NeXT environment. OpenStep was modularized, and the operating system functions were separated from the user environment, which was then ported to other platforms (including Windows [ISTR] and Solaris, and, so I have heard recently, VMS) Of course, that is mostly from memory, so any of it could be way off. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 11:46:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sune Stjerneby [mailto:sst@vmunix.dk] > On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: > [snip] > > This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware > > owners in '99. > You happen to have any idea how this was done? Public FTP, shipped CDs > or some other form? I'm looking for a NeXTstep release; vendors only > seem to ship OpenStep these days (if at all; it's been a while since > I contacted one). http://www.blackholeinc.com/ (I think) Black Hole sells new, licensed copies of NeXTSTEP in several releases. They're a little steep on those, but they have them. I have no connection with Black Hole, other than that I think I'll order a cable and mouse from them. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Mar 6 12:05:15 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> References: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020306180515.GA5329725@uiuc.edu> As a counterpoint (see below): Jeffrey S. Sharp said: > > On top of that stuff, a credible source inside the cable company says that > I will be eventually switched over from RoadRunner to the cable company's > own network. According to the source, areas where the switches are > occurring (mostly those served by @Home, but RoadRunner is next) are > experiencing repeated, prolonged outages. I was just switched from @Home to my local cable company's (insight communications) network, and it's actual been more stable and reliable then it was before. @Home kind of sucked, but I've been happy with insight's service, at least so far -- it's been about a month... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From pb at Colorado.EDU Wed Mar 6 12:12:42 2002 From: pb at Colorado.EDU (pb@Colorado.EDU) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <200203061812.g26ICgS10457@morse.Colorado.EDU> >On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:43:31PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: >[snip] >> This could partly be due to Apple giving it away to NeXT hardware >> owners in '99. > >You happen to have any idea how this was done? Public FTP, shipped CDs >or some other form? I'm looking for a NeXTstep release; vendors only >seem to ship OpenStep these days (if at all; it's been a while since >I contacted one). > >-- >Sune Stjerneby > - Part of an RFC 1876-compliant network. It was done by shipping CDs. Owners of NeXT hardware were to contact Apple (via telephone, fax, or e-mail, I think) with their machine serial number (supposedly also software serial number, but that turned out not to be required), and request the Y2K patches. Since those patches were only applicable to NS3.3 or OS4.2, you would also get NS3.3 or OS4.2, if you requested them. (I believe that if you had anything less than OS4.0, you would get NS3.3; if you had OS4.0 or OS4.1, you would get OS4.2. I also believe that you could get as many copies as you had machine serial numbers. I am not certain of either of these last two points.) Some of these software packages appear for auction or sale in various venues--or, that is what I assume they are, when they are advertised as brand new, and including the Y2K patches. (There was at least one bug introduced by the Y2K patches, but I don't think that a fix has been released. It had to do with an unfortunate interaction between gnutar and some (or one) of the Lighthouse Design programs.) PB Schechter From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Mar 6 12:23:58 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <20020306162749.GA5311842@uiuc.edu> References: <20020306162749.GA5311842@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <40073.62.148.193.1.1015439038.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Dan Wright said: > Jarkko Teppo said: >> >> I just finished installing NS 3.3 on a HP 715/100. It's extremely >> fast compared to a 68040@25MHz. > > Really? Where might one be able to get this? I'm interested in trying > it out... Well, that depends :-). Anyway, it was a *bit* picky about the hardware, it didn't like HIL at all (at least not on the installation phase) but I didn't bother to look for a workaround as I had a few HP PS2 keyboards/mice lying around. Otherwise the installation was easy, even sound worked + the usual gizmos. I even found Doom compiled as NIHS (Next, Intel, HP-PA, Sparc) and an extra bonus was Cub-X which is now available for free! -- jht From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 12:24:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A84@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with OpenWindows (OpenLook), > which was a SUN environment, and is, in fact, relatively well replicated > on linux. In fact, I'd say that byte-for-byte it's the most complete, > useable desktop environment available under Linux today. Much better > than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, > etc, have become. Nope. I've used OpenWindows, hate it, would rather run twm if that's the only choice. I may be completely out of my head, and as of this morning I can't even find the stack of old source archives. If it's on tape I'm gonna cry "Uncle". > Actually, WindowMaker is the "official" window management component of > the GNUStep project. It's a (small, but visible) subset of GNUStep, in > other words, and not separate. > It's unfortunate that the project isn't further along. (finished!) I > tried to compile the whole of GNUStep (all that was available) for > Linux several years ago, and there wasn't anywhere near enough to work > with at that point. I ended up deleting everything but the window > manager. :) I've fooled with GNUSTEP myself, with the same results you got. WindowMaker is a great WM, but I begin to doubt that GNUSTEP will ever get any closer than that to a full-blown environment. Gnome & KDE have pulled all the focus and resources away. Doc From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 12:32:40 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: pair.com has been great for me. And if you want your own server, try rackspace.com. I chose them for a NHTSA project that demanded 24/7 server availability. They have 11 backbone providers coming in to the site, IIRC. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey S. Sharp > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:20 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Hosting Recommendations > > > I need to find a good email/web hosting service. Yes, this is on-topic. > > Right now, subatomix.com (my mail server) is a machine in my house, > connected via residential cable modem service. This has some cool factor > for me, but there are disadvantages: > > (0) The system has to up and stable 24/7; I can't play with it in ways > that might interrupt that. > > (1) The cable modem connection goes down every now and then, sometimes for > several hours. > > (2) I'm not too knowledgeable at mail administration; there's a good > probability that this machine is not as secure as it could be. > > On top of that stuff, a credible source inside the cable company says that > I will be eventually switched over from RoadRunner to the cable company's > own network. According to the source, areas where the switches are > occurring (mostly those served by @Home, but RoadRunner is next) are > experiencing repeated, prolonged outages. > > So I need list members' recommendations on a good email/web hosting > service. If you work for such a service, feel free to suggest it if it is > a good service. What I want is: > > (0) Email hosting for 5 addresses at subatomix.com. It needs to handle > several hundred emails per day (peak) and the occasional large file mailed > to me. > > (1) Web hosting for my as-yet-unfinished personal web site. The largest > part of the site will be an exposition of my collection like that of many > others here. I plan on having a lot of pictures, and the service needs > the capacity to hold them. (See it *is* on-topic). > > (2) Encrypted communications, or at least my passwords not sent over the > network in cleartext. > > (3) The servers running some UNIX and administered by competent people. > > (4) A flat fee. > > (5) If I use their DNS servers, the ability to point foo.subatomix.com to > a certain IP address. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 12:36:41 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > I was just switched from @Home to my local cable company's (insight > communications) network, and it's actual been more stable and > reliable then it > was before. @Home kind of sucked, but I've been happy with > insight's service, > at least so far -- it's been about a month... Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;) Do they require you to buy cable service too, or can you get the network hookup separately? I have been considering switching to cable off and on, myself. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 12:37:50 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> This was actually supposed to go straight to Dan. Sorry :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith > Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I > don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Mar 6 12:44:01 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A84@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with OpenWindows (OpenLook), > which was a SUN environment, and is, in fact, relatively well replicated > on linux. In fact, I'd say that byte-for-byte it's the most complete, > useable desktop environment available under Linux today. Much better > than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, > etc, have become. Now I'm no big fan of any of the newer window managers either, but OpenLook? GAH, ARGHHH *WRETCH* Sure, it's a personal preference and all. My choice would be FVWM, and then probably TWM. Also, I'd completely forgetten about Bowman and AfterSTEP. Bowman was nice and lightweight, and I think derivative of FVWM. -brian. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 12:46:29 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I didn't think I ever seen it all the way through. What does it have to > do with railways and highways? Highways were promoted as routes for buses to travel, smoke-emitting buses that replaced clean electric trolleys that ran on rail tracks... and this actually happened not just in L.A. but all over the country. -dq > Is it possible to fall in love with a cartoon :-) Many of us probably resemble that remark! -dq From dittman at dittman.net Wed Mar 6 12:51:04 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <40073.62.148.193.1.1015439038.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> from "Jarkko Teppo" at Mar 06, 2002 08:23:58 PM Message-ID: <200203061851.g26Ip4t13302@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> I just finished installing NS 3.3 on a HP 715/100. It's extremely > >> fast compared to a 68040@25MHz. > > > > Really? Where might one be able to get this? I'm interested in trying > > it out... > > Well, that depends :-). Anyway, it was a *bit* picky about the hardware, it > didn't like HIL at all (at least not on the installation phase) but I didn't > bother to look for a workaround as I had a few HP PS2 keyboards/mice lying > around. > > Otherwise the installation was easy, even sound worked + the usual gizmos. > I even found Doom compiled as NIHS (Next, Intel, HP-PA, Sparc) and an extra > bonus was Cub-X which is now available for free! Will it install on a C110? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Mar 6 12:59:23 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, due to the fact that I forgot I had spring break next week, the timetables are moved up a bit. If you want this please let me know no later than _THIS_THURSDAY_. If I don't hear any responses, I'll go and get as many parts from it as I can haul away in my Camry. -- Pat On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > An IBM 3840 Tape System just came in recently at Purdue University Salvage > and Surplus. The guy that works there (Don) said he would try and figure > out a price for it. The system includes: > > 1) 1x3840 A22 controller > 2) 2x3840 B22 dual-tape drive > 3) 1x3840 B22 dual-tape drive with autochanger. > > The item was in 'unknown status', but appeared to be complete. I've asked > him to hold off on scrapping the system until at least next Tuesday. If > you're interested, contact me off list, and I'll try to see what he'll > want for it(you can make an offer for him). Currently, I don't have any > way to move it or store it (more than a couple days in my apartment that > is) so the pickup would either have to be by Tuesday by you or I'd have to > rent a truck to move it to my place for temporary storage (which I'd ask > $20+truck charges for). > > If no-one's interested by next Tuesday, I'll tell him to go ahead and > scrap it, so make up your minds soon... > > I'll post a price for it as soon as I find one out. > > -- Pat > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 12:59:40 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... References: <3C85E0E1.8AA8FABA@internet1.net> <15493.58176.19456.338399@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C864F03.659B3F4E@internet1.net> <15494.21202.14400.310845@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C86671C.938B5585@internet1.net> I know, I had just rolled out of bed though, so not much was funny at the time :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > > It was a joke, Chad. You know...a joke? > > -Dave > > On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > It wasn't staffed at all. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > On March 6, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > That actually makes sense, too. Just the other day in the USA Today, I > > > > read that the old US Embassy in Afghanistan was equipped with old > > > > Wangs. > > > > > > Are you suggesting that the embassy is staffed by a bunch of > > > dickheads? > > > > > > -Dave > > > > > > -- > > > Dave McGuire > > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Mar 6 13:03:55 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C86681B.C8CDFD4C@Vishay.com> John, somewhere in the basement, there must be a big box full with circuit schematics... I might try to find the docs during the weekend. If nobody else is faster, I'll go on the expedition then. Just to make sure: as opposed to the much simpler turnkey console, we're talking about the programmer's console that has a six-digit seven segment display and a keypad with octals and function keys like "LOAD ADR", "DIS ADR", "EXAM", "DEP", "BOOT", "INIT" etc.? - IIRC, it's the KY11-LB or so? Andreas John Allain wrote: > > >> I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console but no PDP-11/34, what > > How about building a interface board... > > Anybody have the signal line assignments? > > John A. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Mar 6 13:07:50 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > > Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with OpenWindows (OpenLook), > > which was a SUN environment, and is, in fact, relatively well replicated > > on linux. In fact, I'd say that byte-for-byte it's the most complete, > > useable desktop environment available under Linux today. Much better > > than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, > > etc, have become. > > Now I'm no big fan of any of the newer window managers either, but > OpenLook? GAH, ARGHHH *WRETCH* Sure, it's a personal preference and > all. My choice would be FVWM, and then probably TWM. Also, I'd > completely forgetten about Bowman and AfterSTEP. Bowman was nice and > lightweight, and I think derivative of FVWM. I swear by CTWM. I don't mind MWM so much either. I can't stand FVWM. Peace... Sridhar From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 13:13:54 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > Doc, I think maybe you're confusing OpenStep with > OpenWindows (OpenLook), > Nope. I've used OpenWindows, hate it, would rather run twm > if that's > the only choice. I may be completely out of my head, and as of this Heh. I'm running out of "OpenStuff" :) > morning I can't even find the stack of old source archives. > If it's on > tape I'm gonna cry "Uncle". I don't suppose you might have seen the Mach version of OpenStep running on Intel hardware? This would look pretty similar to a "linux" if you were using a command-line shell. > enough to work > > with at that point. I ended up deleting everything but the window > > manager. :) > I've fooled with GNUSTEP myself, with the same results you got. > WindowMaker is a great WM, but I begin to doubt that GNUSTEP will ever > get any closer than that to a full-blown environment. Gnome > & KDE have > pulled all the focus and resources away. That's a shame, since the NeXT environment is much nicer. :) Of course, OpenStep on its own would still leave the problem of using X11 for delivery of all graphics, which from what I've seen is nowhere near as nice as the NeXT window system, but still it would have been a step in the right direction. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Mar 6 13:20:01 2002 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020306142001.010804a8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:15 AM 3/6/02 +0000, Sellam wrote: >Let me try to lend some perspective. > >The greater Middle East has been a poor region for a long time. During >the days when computers were first being developed, a majority of the >Middle East was still a relic of the stone age. Running water and >electricity in a home ("home" in this sense could also mean a structure >made of stones and mud) was still a luxury for the majority of the >population. Indeed. But there were at least two regions that, prior to 1948, were rather pro-west, and had excellent universities; there, art flourished, and so did commerce. Beirut was rather cosmopolitan. So was Palestine. I know about this; the city where I grew up in Mexico was the recipient of one of the largest migrations coming from those two spots post-1948. These people enriched our arts and universities, as well as our culinary experience. They were well read, educated, hard-working. Couldn't ask for a better immigration. Of course, their towns went back to the stone age after 1948; their civilization is no more. I wish all people could agree to share. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 13:24:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > Much better > > than those poor, bloated pieces of garbage that GNOME, KDE, > Enlightenment, > > etc, have become. > Now I'm no big fan of any of the newer window managers either, but > OpenLook? GAH, ARGHHH *WRETCH* Sure, it's a personal preference and > all. My choice would be FVWM, and then probably TWM. Also, I'd > completely forgetten about Bowman and AfterSTEP. Bowman was nice and > lightweight, and I think derivative of FVWM. Heh. I don't remember whether Bowman was FVWM derived or not, but everything else was at the time, so why not? :) Actually, I wish Enlightenment was still based on FVWM -- it would be much easier on the CPU. Anyway, yes, it's a personal preference, but I certainly like it better than GNOME or KDE (since it will actually _run_ on a machine without flooring a 200Mhz chip. There are one or two other "desktop environments" for linux, but those never impressed me. ... so if you want an entire "environment" (that is, window management, supporting apps, maybe a file manager, and if you're lucky a decent set of widgets, all of which interoperate and share data nicely), what other choice is there? (I would seriously like to know. Private mail is fine, since most of this software is probably off topic :) Personally, I use WindowMaker for window management, and don't bother looking for "supporting apps," etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From red at bears.org Wed Mar 6 13:28:50 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:08 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <200203061851.g26Ip4t13302@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > Will it install on a C110? No. There are metric tonnes of inaccurate information flying around this thread. It's too depressing right now to even start to try to straighten it out. Maybe if the thread blows out soon enough it might be possible to set the record straight. ok r. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 13:46:12 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <3C85AC26.CB2C714B@internet1.net> Message-ID: > Where did all the scrap come from? Industrial machines from closed up > factories? New imported steel displacing it? Amongst many factors of the glut are the decline of the US steel industry in general, lightweighting (ever notice that cans and bottles are just a tad bit lighter now?), and the Soviets sold their Navy. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 13:48:03 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <02030522220000.02274@ccraft.home> Message-ID: > I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... it's only 5 hours' drive from > here. Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 13:52:04 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: <3C8577C5.FB259FCE@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else. > In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents. Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late 1968). There were a number of logic families that were out in the mid-1960s. Yes, in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip! And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 14:05:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A8E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > I don't suppose you might have seen the Mach version of OpenStep > running on Intel hardware? This would look pretty similar to a "linux" > if you were using a command-line shell. No. What I have [somewhere] is a tarball named ostep.tar.gz that I believe was supposed to be source for OpenSTEP window manager for XFree86. I may or may not have ever built it. It was in an archive directory that I cleaned up & burned to CD a couple of months ago. All I really know is that it was old, and that it has a Makefile but not a "configure" script for automake. I hereby give up and holler "Uncle!". I'm convinced that: A) It's not authentic OpenSTEP anything. B) OpenSTEP was never the graphics subsystem of NeXTSTEP, as I had thought. C) What I have is very likely someone's FVWM "theme" package. The timeframe would fit. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 14:14:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020306201455.59897.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console but no PDP-11/34, what > should I do with it? My options are: > > 1) get a PDP-11/34 Always a nice choice if you can manage it. > 2) trade it with something I need more, like a PDP-8/A power > regulator(G8018) and limited function panel so that I can > build my third PDP-8/A :-) I don't have any spare regulators (I am, in fact, short one - missing caps from the previous owner and no expectation that the board works), but I do have a limited function panel sitting on the shelf - it has the BERG connector, *not* the 16-pin-DIP connector; probably why it's sitting there. None of my OMNIBUS boxes are wired to talk to it. I do have a 5.25" 11/34 in my basement right now, with a limited-function panel, but I'm not sure you can _put_ the programmer's panel on the short 11/34s. We always used ODT on it anyway (cf. recent discussion about force-feeding PDP-11s from a VAX via ODT and special console toggle switch - this one _is_ that PDP-11). > PDP-11s were never really my plan to collect, but I wouldn't > mind having one specimen of 2.9 BSD running. So, may be I > should get an 11/34? The 11/34 should do for 2.9BSD. I haven't tried it there - memory tends to be a little tight. I _have_ loaded 2.9BSD on a loaded 11/24, some time ago, c. 1987, ISTR. I splurged on a KT24(?) from Terry Kennedy just so I could have more RAM. I had the memory cards, but I couldn't address them without it. I finally gave up on 2.9BSD on real -11 hardware when I couldn't manage to locate a disk larger than an RL02 that 2.9BSD supported (no MSCP). I didn't have any SMD disks available, and the only real choice would have been an RK611 with a bank of RK07 drives. I still haven't had any SMD or ESDI Unibus controllers cross my path in the past 15 years. All I have for Unibus disk is _still_ UDA50s and RL02s. I could install and run the base packages on a dual 10MB system, but there wasn't room for sources and to rebuild the kernel. 28MB would have done it though, I think. 56MB would have been sweet (we used to use a dual- RK07 configuration when we did compatibility testing with our product and 4.0BSD, 4.1BSD and SYSV in 1984/1985 on an 11/750 w/2MB of RAM). There's nothing intrinsically wrong with an 11/34, but they seem small to me. I guess it's better than an 11/04, and there certainly were a lot of 11/34s shipped, so they tend to be easier to find, in my experience, than other Unibus PDP-11s. I guess when you look at the 18-bits of address space on the Unibus, compared with 22-bits on anything Qbus from the KDF11 on up, and with the other techiques used by larger Unibus -11s, the 11/34 _is_ kinda small. 256K is plenty for RT-11, but it gets a wee bit cramped, not for Unix itself, but for the way we are accustomed to using Unix. There's room for the kernel (if it's optimized for your hardware), but I don't recall wanting to try a second user under 2.9BSD and 256K of RAM. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 14:16:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 5, 2 09:32:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3704 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/a17b0617/attachment.ksh From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 14:21:42 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020306142043.R37156-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... it's only 5 hours' > > drive from here. > > Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? Well, if you're coming through Oklahoma (but I don't think you are), you could always drop one off at my place. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 6 14:27:14 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <40073.62.148.193.1.1015439038.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <20020306162749.GA5311842@uiuc.edu> <40073.62.148.193.1.1015439038.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: >Otherwise the installation was easy, even sound worked + the usual gizmos. >I even found Doom compiled as NIHS (Next, Intel, HP-PA, Sparc) and an extra >bonus was Cub-X which is now available for free! I play Doom on my NeXTstation Color. It plays in a small window but is playable. I guess at the resolutions the OS runs at, it would've been hard to run Doom fullscreen. The docs suggest that the Dimension board isn't fast enough at it's color depth to be playable at all. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 14:41:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A91@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > B) OpenSTEP was never the graphics subsystem of NeXTSTEP, as I had > thought. Well, if you take the graphical subsystem, make it run on top of X11, and ad a little more of NeXT to it, then you would get OpenStep. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 14:47:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <001201c1c4e2$99657260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 6, 2 00:43:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1739 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/5c387629/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 14:53:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Need Shugart 851 manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020306075522.00816d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 6, 2 07:55:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/e4014720/attachment.ksh From Gary.Messick at itt.com Wed Mar 6 14:53:35 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD7044689B1@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > Subject: Re: Decwriters > > > > I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... it's only 5 > hours' drive from > > here. > > Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > I could use an R key for a LA-36 (Decwrite II)! Long story involving wife and an errant vacuum. (But honey.... It was soooooo dusty!) Gary ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Mar 6 14:58:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A93@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? I have one spoken for, in Champaign, IL. That might be out of your way from (or to) Chicago, though. I'm not sure. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dittman at dittman.net Wed Mar 6 15:06:11 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <20020306142043.R37156-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 06, 2002 02:21:42 PM Message-ID: <200203062106.g26L6BX14013@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... it's only 5 hours' > > > drive from here. > > > > Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? > > Well, if you're coming through Oklahoma (but I don't think you are), you > could always drop one off at my place. Actually, if Jeffrey doesn't mind bringing one by with the rack, drop two off. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 15:08:54 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020306210854.64406.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > > I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else. > > In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents. > > Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late > 1968). I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but no earlier. They'd be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly. > There were a number of logic families that were out in the mid-1960s. Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to find any) to build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series and R-series logic. The W706 and W707 boards use a Motorola logic family with 3 digits, not 4. The schematic for the W707 transmitter shows... 1 x MC799P "Dual Power Buffer" ('P' for Plastic package, 0C - 70C rated) 8 x MC724P "Dual J-K Flip- Flop" 5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND) 5 x MC789P "Hex Inverter" GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on pin 11. The schematic also suggests that they are 14-pin ICs, but no way of telling if they are DIP or some other packaging (but the mention of a plastic package is a hint). I have to say that I have been previously unaware of any logic family that used +3.6V for Vcc. Anyone have any info from 35 years ago? > Yes, in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip! > > And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip... Thank you, Gordon Moore. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Mar 6 15:13:21 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <20020306201455.59897.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C868671.AAE09D68@Vishay.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: ... > I do have a 5.25" 11/34 in my basement right now, with a limited-function > panel, but I'm not sure you can _put_ the programmer's panel on the > short 11/34s. We always used ODT on it anyway (cf. recent discussion > about force-feeding PDP-11s from a VAX via ODT and special console toggle > switch - this one _is_ that PDP-11). You _can_ put the programmer's console on it: I am running it that way. Of course, you still need the matching board inside the box, and you won't have a lot of room (and power) for other peripherals, especially if you're lucky enough to have a cache board, so I hooked up a UNIBUS cable to a 10.5" box, where the controllers live. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 15:24:57 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020306152139.O37156-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > pair.com has been great for me. Thanks for the help. I think I'm going with pair. I've had quite a number of people recommend them. They offer everything I want, and their prices are extremely reasonable. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 15:26:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <3C868671.AAE09D68@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > ... > > I do have a 5.25" 11/34 in my basement right now... > > You _can_ put the programmer's console on it: I am running it that way. > Of course, you still need the matching board inside the box, and you > won't have a lot of room (and power) for other peripherals, especially > if you're lucky enough to have a cache board... That makes sense... > so I hooked up a UNIBUS cable to a 10.5" box, where the controllers live. Functionally sensible, but it won't fit on my bench anymore. :-( My BA-11 is in a rack 10' from the end that the 11/34 sits on. The Unibus cable would have to be taped to the rafters or block the aisle and become a trip hazard. Guess I'll go back to making the BA11 work with the VAX 8300 it's next to (replaced the damaged IC in the T0010 board... now on to locate the cause of the short that caused the damage in the first place). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 15:30:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A67A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Mar 6, 2 10:23:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 137 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/c68c704b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 15:34:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Mar 6, 2 08:23:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/653c0cf7/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Mar 6 16:03:40 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A68C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick > > tossed in your direction immediately... > > Well, it isn't the notorious R. Head, but the Nerf bricks > will likely fly anyway. > > The very first computer operator was Eve, with an Apple at one hand > and a Wang at the other. ...and some would say they still can't get the smell out of the Apples... ;) From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Mar 6 16:13:52 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: <20020306210854.64406.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- William Donzelli wrote: > > > I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else. > > > In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents. > > > > Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late > > 1968). > > I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but no earlier. They'd > be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly. > > > There were a number of logic families that were out in the mid-1960s. > > Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to find any) to > build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series > and R-series logic. The W706 and W707 boards use a Motorola logic family > with 3 digits, not 4. The schematic for the W707 transmitter shows... > > 1 x MC799P "Dual Power Buffer" ('P' for Plastic package, 0C - 70C rated) > 8 x MC724P "Dual J-K Flip- Flop" > 5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND) > 5 x MC789P "Hex Inverter" > > GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on pin 11. The schematic also > suggests that they are 14-pin ICs, but no way of telling if they are DIP or > some other packaging (but the mention of a plastic package is a hint). They are 14 pin DIPs in shiny black epoxy. RTL I believe. > > I have to say that I have been previously unaware of any logic family that > used +3.6V for Vcc. Anyone have any info from 35 years ago? Fairchild RTL uLogic (914 dual 2 IP NOR, 923 JK FF,913 D FF etc (memory failing...) -- all 8 pin TO5 cans or epoxy equiv... also use 3.6 V > > > Yes, in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip! > > > > And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip... > > Thank you, Gordon Moore. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > Peter Wallace From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 6 16:28:37 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Brian Chase "Re: OpenSTEP for VMS" (Mar 5, 18:14) References: Message-ID: <10203062228.ZM28740@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 18:14, Brian Chase wrote: > OpenSTEP proper was just the last generation > of NeXTSTEP. The latest release I saw being OpenSTEP 4.2. It ran on > Intel/PC, Sun Sparc, and I think PA-RISC. I believe NeXTSTEP 3.3 was > the last version to support NeXT black hardware. Then how come my NeXT slab came with CDs labelled "OpenStep 4.2 for NeXT, User Disk", "OpenStep 4.2 for NeXT, Developer", and and NeXT boot floppy? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ernestls at attbi.com Wed Mar 6 16:41:10 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Anyone want a Dell 310? In-Reply-To: <026201c1c531$471f7d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Is anyone interested in a Dell 310 computer? I think that this is an early Dell model, and it's in good shape. It's at REPC in Seattle if anyone wants it. Ernest From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 16:53:01 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: <20020306210854.64406.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but no earlier. They'd > be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly. I don't know when the 7400 line was kicked off, but I could believe late 1967. > Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to find any) to > build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series > and R-series logic. Frankly, I think you will spend less time and resources just finding an original DW08. The 700 series chips are out there if one looks carefully, but so are the two DEC boards. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 16:54:23 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <20020306142043.R37156-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: > Well, if you're coming through Oklahoma (but I don't think you are), you > could always drop one off at my place. Sorry, too far out of the way. I will likely be skimming across the bottom of Nebraska westward. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Mar 6 16:54:36 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations Message-ID: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I don't know about the other carriers, but I'm here to tell you that RoadRunner (at least, it's incarnation here in Kansas) really, truly, sucks ass: 1. They charge for basic cable in addition to my network connection, even though I don't use the cable TV part. 2. ftp & http access to machines I have attached to the network is *blocked* ( can get in via TELNET; whoop, whoop). 3. Their NNTP (net news) service sucks 4. They're going to raise my rates *again*. 5. The speed is no where nearly as fast as it used to be. I'd go DSL but SBC doesn't have DSL in my neighborhood. Damn. Jeff On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:36:41 -0600 Christopher Smith writes: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > > > I was just switched from @Home to my local cable company's > (insight > > communications) network, and it's actual been more stable and > > reliable then it > > was before. @Home kind of sucked, but I've been happy with > > insight's service, > > at least so far -- it's been about a month... > > Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I > don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;) > > Do they require you to buy cable service too, or can you get the > network hookup separately? > > I have been considering switching to cable off and on, myself. > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 16:56:35 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A93@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: > I have one spoken for, in Champaign, IL. That might be out of your > way from (or to) Chicago, though. I'm not sure. We could meet somewhere north of Champaign. After all, I am going to have to go just south of the lake anyway. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 6 16:58:53 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Mostek computers? In-Reply-To: "Ernest" "Mostek computers?" (Mar 5, 22:03) References: Message-ID: <10203062258.ZM28765@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 22:03, Ernest wrote: > I didn't know that Mostek made an entire system? There is one at REPC that > someone dropped off. It has two 8" drives, and has a yellow and blue case. > It looks like an early vintage system but I don't know much about it. Is > anyone familiar with this computer? Not first hand, but I have a book called "Microcomputer Board Data Manual", edited by Dave Bursky, from "Electronic Design", pub. Hayden 1978. It lists one Mostek product, the OEM-80, about which the summary says: Word size: 8-bit data / 16-bit address CPU: MK3880 Clock freq min 0.005MHz / max 2.5MHz Total addressable memory 64K Amount of RAM on card 4K provided / 64K possible Amount of ROM on card 0K provided / 25K possible DMA capable: yes Bus type : proprietary Parallel I/O pins: 40 Serial I/O ports: 1 Max baud rate: 9600 Interrupt provisions: [none] Multiprocessing capablitly: yes Counter/timers: 4 (16 bits/timer) Software: assembler, debugging, HLL, OS Supply voltages: +5V, +/- 12V Board sixe: 12"x 8.5" Comments: Same as Z-80 CPU. ROM and RAM address mapping. OEM-80: No ROM supplied. Available as a complete ROM-based prototype package. European card: 233 x 250mm. The chapter (well, one page plus a 1-page diagram) in the body of the book says the SDB-80 is the version with the firmware, and there are some other cards as well, including floppy controller, more RAM, PROM programmer, CRT interface, card cage, etc. The OEM-80 cost $430 in 100+ quantities. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 17:13:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: <20020306210854.64406.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 6, 2 01:08:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020306/71d0eec8/attachment.ksh From spc at conman.org Wed Mar 6 17:37:20 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "jeff.kaneko@juno.com" at Mar 06, 2002 04:54:36 PM Message-ID: <200203062337.SAA00101@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great jeff.kaneko@juno.com once stated: > > > I don't know about the other carriers, but I'm here to tell > you that RoadRunner (at least, it's incarnation here in Kansas) > really, truly, sucks ass: > > 1. They charge for basic cable in addition to my network > connection, even though I don't use the cable TV part. To ``help'' you avoid getting arrested for cable fraud: http://www.geocities.com/flutocracy/cablemodem.htm > 2. ftp & http access to machines I have attached to the network > is *blocked* ( can get in via TELNET; whoop, whoop). HTTP is probably blocked because of Nimda and Code Red worms. When we got a cable modem [1] I found out that they were blocking incoming port 80. I was upset at first but I was then reminded of the various Windows worms that are still very active. FTP because the default server for most Linux distributions is a piece of crap (wu-ftpd) that is easily exploited, would be my guess. Or ... since this is a residential service you ``shouldn't'' be running those services, right? Bloody providers---I want a pipe thank you. Not hand holding. -spc (And heaven help you if you change network cards ... ) From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 17:54:30 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I'd go DSL but SBC doesn't have DSL in my neighborhood. Everything Jeff said plus: In Austin RR offers commercial service. For about 2.5 times the cost of a residential connection you get 1 (one) static IP. They will even host your domain name, ONLY on a forward lookup. A reverse lookup will give their generic FQDN -- csXXXXXX-XXX.austin.rr.com. Not horribly useful. You're not allowed to run servers. Not email, not webservers, not nothin. The download & upload speeds _are_ about 15-20% faster than residential. All for the low low price of $127/month. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Mar 6 17:56:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: I forgot to be fair. On a commercial RR account, incoming http & ftp are not blocked. You just aren't supposed to run a webserver or ftp site. Doc From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 18:25:00 2002 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020307002500.2308.qmail@web20806.mail.yahoo.com> Bill, If they're free (or low cost, relatively speaking) I'd like 2 in the S.F. Bay area. Is that on the route? Thanks! Lee Courtney --- William Donzelli wrote: > > I can arrange to pick up at the Denver stop... > it's only 5 hours' drive from > > here. > > Who else wanted a DECwriter, and where? > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Mar 6 18:46:57 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Mar 6, 2 09:30:34 pm" Message-ID: <200203070046.QAA28562@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick > > I once worked with a technician called Richard Head. Seriously... In the US we actually have a legislator named Richard Ryder. I pity his constituents (I don't think it's the Bay Area, either). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- He who Laughs, Lasts. ------------------------------------------------------ From tarsi at binhost.com Wed Mar 6 18:52:48 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> References: <20020306104327.F36640-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <02030618524806.00189@simon> I am biased, but am one of the admins for a hosting service. I think we offer pretty good pricing and some of the best service around. We're small so we can control things easily and we shun M$. :) Check us out, if you want: http://www.binhost.com Nathan From tarsi at binhost.com Wed Mar 6 18:54:02 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: DRV11-J uses? Message-ID: <02030618540207.00189@simon> What exactly would I use a DRV11-J card for? I'm thinking of selling it since it seems to bring fairly decent prices on the 'net, but I want to make sure I wouldn't actually NEED the thing before I sell it. Thanks! Nathan -- ---------------------------------------------- Homepage: http://tarsi.binhost.com binHOST.com: http://www.binhost.com Forever Beyond: http://www.foreverbeyond.org ---------------------------------------------- From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Mar 6 19:09:06 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Anyone want a Dell 310? In-Reply-To: References: <026201c1c531$471f7d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306200814.00a21b40@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 02:41 PM 3/6/02 -0800, you wrote: >Is anyone interested in a Dell 310 computer? I think that this is an >early Dell model, and it's in good shape. It's at REPC in Seattle if >anyone wants it. That sounds good, can you please send us two paid for plane tickets so we can come pick it up? From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 19:11:14 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony, I'm probing around on the PCB, and here's what I find. Pin 42 is staying low, no matter what. Shorting pin 41 to ground causes the head to load with a nice solid thunk. I'm starting to wonder if the drive *is* (or ever was) jumpered correctly. I have HM jumpered (on the block with DS0/DS1, etc), and MX (on that same block). Also jumpered is 'PM', off by itself. There are no jumpers on the 2x8 block, which contains labels such as 'UR', 'ML', 'HL', 'SM', 'UO', and 'RE'. There seems to be one other label on that block that the silkscreen smeared on, and I can't read. If this jumpering sounds reasonable (head load on motor start is what I think I want), can you tell me the signal path from the 'HM' jumper to wherever it goes? Thanks very much, --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 17:43 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity > > > > > > Indeed, my boards are P/N 15532001-01. Mine doesn't have a > 7556-00, but a > > 7358-00. The 48 pin ASIC is the same. U8 is a 6-Unit 320mA Transistor > > The quality of printing is so bad, that the 30 pin ASIC could well be > 7358-00.... I suspect this is the same board. > > > Array with Clamp Diode and Strobe, and probably most of it is > used in the > > stepper motor driver. They're probably using 1 of the channels > to pull down > > 4 sections for the head stepper, one for head load, one for the front > panel LED. That LED is not going to take much current -- I guess the > driver was used 'because it's there'. > > > the head solenoid because of it's current capability. The silly > > Mitsubishians have a dimensional drawing of the part, but no actual > > datasheet. > > The head load section has an input on pin 2, output on pin 15. It's shown > as a NAND gate on the schematic. One input of all the gates in U8 goes to > pin one, which is tied high. > > On the 1922-00 chip, look at pin 42 (HL output, goes to pin 2 on U8) and > pin 41 (HOD -- this is the drive to Q4 to apply 12V to the solenoid to > pull it in). My guess is that pin 42 should essentially follow the head > load signal from the controller and pin 41 should provide a pull-in pulse > whenever head load goes from deasserted to asserted. > > Q4 is a PNP transistor. Emitter to +12V, collector to the 'top' end of > the load soleneoid. CR1 (diode) between +5V and the collector (this is to > provide the +5V holding supply when Q4 is cut off). There's a couple of > resistors in package RA6 -- seem to be 2k2 each. One from pin 4 to pin 3 > (this is connected between the base and emitter of Q4), the other from > pin 4 (base of Q4) and pin 5 (to pin 41 on the ASIC). It's all pretty > simple... > > Incidentally, there's a similar circuit for the head stepper motor using > transisto Q3 nad diode CR3... > > -tony > > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Mar 6 19:13:44 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: ... > ... Guess I'll go back to making the BA11 work with the > VAX 8300 it's next to (replaced the damaged IC in the T0010 board... now > on to locate the cause of the short that caused the damage in the first > place). Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my RX211 (output at pin 13 shows pulse, but inverting output at pin 4 shows no move, and of course only this one is used) without damaging the board. I suspect replacing the 74123 with a 74LS123 will change the timing? - DEC apparently meant it to be quite precise: the capacitors are +/- 5% types, the resistors even 1%. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From allain at panix.com Wed Mar 6 19:14:04 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org><3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3C86681B.C8CDFD4C@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <004601c1c575$60057360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > we're talking about the programmer's console that has ... > ADR", "DIS ADR", "EXAM", "DEP", "BOOT", "INIT" etc? Most assuredly. > I might try to find the docs during the weekend TIA as they say. I have a console sitting here with nothing to do. John A. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 19:27:23 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Teac drive differences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does any one know the difference between a Teax FD-55B-01-U, and a FD-55BV? It *seems* that the 'V' indicates a beige bezel, but I'm just guessing at what I can tell from pictures... --John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 6 20:37:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity In-Reply-To: from "John Chris Wren" at Mar 6, 2 08:11:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/0de5825c/attachment.ksh From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Mar 6 20:45:30 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations Message-ID: <20020306.204533.-433669.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Well, I guess I shouldn't bitch *too* loudly: both of those activities are expressly prohibited by "Acceptable Use" policies. Phooey. They have a monopoly (Sprint Wireless Data is a joke), and they know it. They can do pretty much whatever they want. I hope SBC kicks their sorry ass when they start running DSL out this way, sometime late this year . . . Jeff On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:56:01 -0600 (CST) Doc writes: > > I forgot to be fair. On a commercial RR account, incoming http & > ftp > are not blocked. You just aren't supposed to run a webserver or ftp > site. > > Doc > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Mar 6 20:46:30 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <20020307002500.2308.qmail@web20806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: To everyone that asked me on or off list about the DECwriters, they are not mine. They belong to RICM, so you must ask Merle. I know he has some names already. I am just moving them, maybe. I think Merle is giving the things away, but I will need to get money to move the things. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Mar 6 21:11:09 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Wanted: old Sun5 keyboard for Sol-20 restoration parts [fwd] In-Reply-To: <200203061657.KAA21909@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306190947.01fa1c90@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 10:57 AM 3/6/02 -0600, you wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > and they keyboard will work, but the trick is finding the pads. There are > > > many Keytronics keyboards that use these foam pads > > > > If you know exactly _which_ Keytronics kbds do this trick, and you > > need one/some let me know. I may be able to get a couple. Lots cheaper > > than Sun equipment.... > > > > Doc > > > >Seems to me that if someone is going to all this trouble to tear apart a >keyboard and replace all the pads, they might as well use brand new pads. >Just contact Keytronic, I think the pads are only about 10 cents each. >They sure made my Terak keyboard work great, I can even play Asteroids >now ;) > >-Lawrence LeMay Keytronics end-of-life'd them and sold the rights to mil-key, who is charging $0.50 each. Thus, it costs about $45 plus shipping to fix up the keyboard. So even a $15 used sun keyboard, as overpriced as it is, is better than that. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 6 21:50:32 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Thinning collection Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020306211803.03328820@pc> I'm expanding my business, clearing out the old shipping room and treating my packrat affliction, so some stuff must go! Pickup preferred; I may ship smaller items. I'm in Jefferson, Wisconsin, halfway between Madison and Milwaukee, about 35 minutes from each. Payment in chocolate, good beer or dollars. Any offers will be considered. Kaypro 1 system, with manuals and software. Probably working. VaxStation 3500 in BA213 case. VR-160 RGB monitor w/cables. Mouse, keyboard. Probably working, with VMS on HD, no manuals. (2) Vaxstation 2000, the little ones. Unknown state. AT&T System V Rel 3 source code for 3B2 Unix on a 9-track tape, and several dozen distribution floppies probably from the same 3B2. Micro PDP-11, unknown state. Microvax II, unknown state. TK50-D drive, unknown state. Bunch of TK50 carts that were probably used with MicroVAX: MicroVAX v4.6 Full bin MicroVAX v4.6 mand update MicroVAX v4.6 VMS lic key Appletalk for VMS v2.0.6 & 2.1, another 3.0b2 OVMS VAX v6.0a MUP VMS v5.5 bin, and mand update Odesta HelixVMX More to come, perhaps. - John From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Mar 6 22:44:29 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: After I inadverently sent mail to the group instead of you personally, I was scrolling through something unrelated in the archives of this group, and ran across this link http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1999-03/2078.html that mentioned a FD55-FB (sometimes I wish Google could be told to ignore certain punctuation). I tried jumpering 'SM', and voila! A good solid head load! Neither drive had this jumper installed. I think the only reason the drive ever booted was because the heads don't unload very hard. Weak spring in the unload mechanism possibly. I dunno. At any rate, the both drives work perfectly well. I copied some diskettes back and forth a few times, and a 10th generation copy still verifies. I haven't checked out the second Otrona I have yet, but I suspect it may be the same problem. Someone swapped these drives out, and they appeared to work. How reliably, who can say? The other think I found was that I had 4 screws left over, and damned if I could figure out where they went. After completely reassembling the unit, I found I had forgot to put the sheild plate over the lower floppy. This "protects" the drive electronics from the motherboard. I can say that it's absolutely necessary on this machine. I thought the second drive was flakey, since a 2nd generation copy failed to verify several times. Found the plate behind a box of diskettes, replaced it, and the diskette was working as a 10th generation copy. So at least one happy little Otrona, although the keyboard tends to bounce a little. Perhaps some usage will clear that up. Tomorrow, I check out the second one (I *really* like these little machines). Thanks to everyone who offered to give or sell me a 360K drive. I may yet need one for the other machine, but I have a feel that it'll be fine. Also, thanks to everyone else that offered suggestions about the drives, etc. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 21:37 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity > > > > > > Tony, > > > > I'm probing around on the PCB, and here's what I find. Pin > 42 is staying > > low, no matter what. Shorting pin 41 to ground causes the head > to load with > > I am puzzled... If pin 42 is alwys low, then there's no way the head can > ever load (U8 a would be turned off, so the output will be floating, so > no return path for the load solenoid). > > > a nice solid thunk. I'm starting to wonder if the drive *is* > (or ever was) > > jumpered correctly. I have HM jumpered (on the block with > DS0/DS1, etc), > > So am I... > > > and MX (on that same block). Also jumpered is 'PM', off by > itself. There > > are no jumpers on the 2x8 block, which contains labels such as > 'UR', 'ML', > > 'HL', 'SM', 'UO', and 'RE'. There seems to be one other label > on that block > > that the silkscreen smeared on, and I can't read. > > > > If this jumpering sounds reasonable (head load on motor > start is what I > > think I want), can you tell me the signal path from the 'HM' jumper to > > wherever it goes? > > It's a bit odd, and as far as I can see (it's getting late, so I might be > missing something), the jumper config you have can't work. > > The motor-on line (pin 16) goes to one side of the HM jumper. The select > line (common of DS0, DS1, DS2, etc) goes to one side of the HS jumper > (head load on select, I think). The other sides of those 2 jumpers are > linked. Makes sesne so far, we'd want this signal to load the head. > Invert that with U3f (it's now an active high signal). We'll call this > 'H' for the moment. > > Take motor_on again (straight from pin 16). AND it (remeber it's active > low, so it's really an OR) (U2d) with one side of the ML jumper (also > puled high by a resistor). ML is not fitted, so the output of UD2 is > essentially motor on. Now invert that with U3d. Call this 'M'. > > Now AND H and M with U2b. So far so good. The only problem is that the > output of U2b goes to the SM jumper and nowhere else. The other side of > the SM jumper is pulled down (47K resistor in RA4), then goes to pin 40 > (HSM) of the 1922-00 ASIC. So without the SM jumper fitted, it can't do a > darn thing. > > My schematic has the HM, IU (pin 4 is In Use, not Head Load (which is > what you get idf the HL jumper is fitted instead)) and SM jumpers drawn > it. Might be worth fitting at least SM and seeing what happens. > > > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 6 22:46:17 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:09 2005 Subject: Teac drive differences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > Does any one know the difference between a Teax FD-55B-01-U, and > a FD-55BV? It *seems* that the 'V' indicates a beige bezel, but I'm > just guessing at what I can tell from pictures... > > --John Comparing a 55B (no suffixes) and a 55BV, it is apparent that the BV has a higher level of integration, only DS-0 and DS-1 have pins (PC drive), and the BV lacks the solenoid head load feature that the B had. I do not believe faceplate color enters into the model number. - don From calmanagement at earthlink.net Wed Mar 6 22:58:55 2002 From: calmanagement at earthlink.net (calmanagement@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: ADV: International Trade Message-ID: If you are in the International Trade, you need to join the FREE Trade Group, Itrade http://www.2wongs.com/itrade.htm Join today - IT'S FREE Disclaimer: This is NOT SPAM - You have received this e-mail because at one time or another you requested information from us regarding international trade or excess merchandise. We comply with all proposed and current laws on commercial e-mail under (Bill s. 1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th Congress). If you have received this e-mail in error, we apologize for the inconvenience and ask that you remove yourself. Just return this email and enter REMOVE as the subject. Thank you. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 23:34:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020307053451.65722.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: I wrote: > > build a replica of a DW08... Errp... a PT08 not a DW08. The DW08 is on a different page and is a bus converter. > ...DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series and R-series logic. > > 8 x MC724P "Dual J-K Flip- Flop" > > 5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND) > > I don't believe that the 724 is both a NAND gate and a J-K flip-flop > :-)... Strike two! The MC790 is the Dual J-K FF. > > GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on pin 11... > Almost certainly RTL. The 3.6V power line is the big clue. I know I > don't have data sheets for them, but I could probably find pinouts if > pushed. I guess you have that info on the schematic, though. Pinouts I got. Physical and electrical specs (and actual parts!) I don't got. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 23:38:59 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020307053859.98803.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > 5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND)... > They are 14 pin DIPs in shiny black epoxy. RTL I believe. That is in keeping with the appearance of some Motorola 8xx series chips on a board I received today. It was attached to a TI 980A and from the date codes, appears to be from c. 1972. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Mar 6 23:39:32 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: NCR V8000 VRX Cobol Manuals available References: Message-ID: <004101c1c59a$7586f9a0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Please contact the sender if interested: From: "Frank Trester" I have a 2 volume NCR Cobol programming manual for the V8000 computer series. It is for NCR VRX Cobol. It is 2 three ring binders that are stored in slip cases. They are like brand new. In fact some of the updates have not even been filed. Are you interested? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 6 23:52:23 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Texas Instruments TI 980A Message-ID: <20020307055223.82619.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Just got a strange little toy from a friend who dug it out of a warehouse today... a TI 980A. I found a little bit on Al Kossow's Orphan page; does anyone know of any other sources for info on the 'net? It appears to be a 16-bit mini from 1972, 4Kwords to 32Kwords (mine has 8KW) with a variety of period peripherals available. Mine has an I/O card, a TTY card and a homemade card that extends the DMA slot and takes the signals over to a rack-mounted tray that is about 2.5 sq ft. of wire wrap sockets and chips dating from 1970 to 1993 (it was apparently in service somewhat recently I'm told). The CPU is on two cards plus a memory controller. That's about all I have on it at the moment. Oh! It does have toggle switches and blinkenlights. Here's what I could glean by reading numbers off of cards... "Arithmetic Unit 1" - assy 960754-0001E Board No 960755-001C "Arithmetic Unit 2" - assy 960751-0001G Board No 960752-001C "1103 Memory" - assy 226844-004N/RS Logic 226846-F (8K) "Memory Controller" - assy 960746-0001E Logic 960777-A "TTY interface" - assy 217394-0001H Logic 217359-F "I/O interface" - assy 960757-0001A Logic 960759 Anybody else out there have one? My friend is going to keep digging in the warehouse this month; he suspects he knows where some docs are, but he's not sure. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jss at subatomix.com Wed Mar 6 23:53:02 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306.204533.-433669.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020306233835.D38204-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Well, I guess I shouldn't bitch *too* loudly: both of those activities > are expressly prohibited by "Acceptable Use" policies. Phooey. My residential RR service through Cox *allows* you to run servers. Their AUP only fobids you to resell ther service. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 6 23:59:41 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Apple Network Server (AIX) V4.1.5 CD Pack on ebay Message-ID: <3C8701CD.94BEF018@internet1.net> I know there are a few people that are interested in Apple Network servers, so I though I would point this auction out. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2006138367 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Mar 7 00:19:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Texas Instruments TI 980A In-Reply-To: New aquisition: Texas Instruments TI 980A (Ethan Dicks) References: <20020307055223.82619.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15495.1637.774073.721496@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 6, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Just got a strange little toy from a friend who dug it out of a warehouse > today... a TI 980A. I found a little bit on Al Kossow's Orphan page; does > anyone know of any other sources for info on the 'net? Pics! Pics!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From bill_r at inebraska.com Thu Mar 7 00:28:22 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE!!! (Mark-8) Message-ID: I bought one of the Mark-8 (8008) board sets from eBay 2 or 3 weeks ago, scrounged up all the parts, and set to work. It had non-plated-through holes so almost all the components had to be soldered on both sides of the board, and there were dozens of vias that had to be soldered in on each board as well. Did the smoke test with no CPU. No smoke, so I inserted the CPU, and it works! I found two problems on initial testing. There was a bad gate in a 7404 which was pulling down one of the data lines (replaced it), and I had missed a "top bus" jumper from the address/multiplex board to the memory board which allowed writes to memory (added a wire). That was it! It's pretty cool - just toggled in a test program and watched the lights blink as it looped over and over. Now I have to build a case and find a better power supply than my bench supply for permanent use, and then I start wire-wrapping an ELF! Whee! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 7 02:15:49 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Weird 7410 In-Reply-To: William Donzelli "Re: Weird 7410" (Mar 6, 14:52) References: Message-ID: <10203070815.ZM29233@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 6, 14:52, William Donzelli wrote: > > I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else. > > In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents. > > Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late 1968). > There were a number of logic families that were out in the mid-1960s. Yes, > in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip! Texas started selling 7400-series TTL in flat-pack packages in October 1964 and in DIP packages in March 1966. So says my Texas "Designing with TTL Integrated Circuits" dated 1971, and also TI's history pages. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Mar 7 02:23:18 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62308.62.148.198.97.1015489398.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Jeff Hellige said: > I play Doom on my NeXTstation Color. It plays in a small > window but is playable. I guess at the resolutions the OS runs at, it > would've been hard to run Doom fullscreen. The docs suggest that the > Dimension board isn't fast enough at it's color depth to be > playable at all. > You can increase the windows size with some commandline flags, though I can't remember what they were. It'll kill the speed though. And if I had a Dimension board I really wouldn't care about playing doom at all :-) Here in Vaasa we have probably 70% to 80% of all the NeXTs in Finland. My local friendly computer salesman has one Dimension board but he ain't selling it. He's also got some other fancy gear like that Sun 2 I've been lusting after. One of the few rare computer shops where you can still buy 20MB MFM disks and other spares for older machines. Most of the places just junk them. -- jht From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 7 03:13:22 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Beehive terminals CPU? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020307083757.0080a350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > IIRC A couple of months ago somebody on this list said that the > Beehive terminals used 4040 CPUs. Can anyone confirm that? Yesterday I > spotted a pair of old two-tome brown Beehive terminals in a trash pile > and I was wondering if I should go back and pick them up. I have a huge monster of a Beehive terminal that was from the era of the 4040, so I can take a look inside and see. If I remember correctly, it had a big card cage inside with numerous boards. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Mar 7 04:13:57 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Suggestions for hauling Computer Garage from Beaverton, OR t In-Reply-To: <3C85849C.D2ABFDAC@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C86E905.19986.61BD40@localhost> No. Just fish and bannock. Lawrence > jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > footnote: > > Bush pilots withdraw their engine oil and keep it indoors. > > Heat it up and fill engine w/ hot oil just before aircraft's engine > > startup. > > Next you'll be telling me they cook french fries in the hot oil too. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 7 04:44:49 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:13:44AM +0100, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my RX211 Best method for replacing chips is to cut the pins of the broken part and then take out the single pins with a desoldering pump. Works good even on multilayers with a good soldering iron. > I suspect replacing the 74123 with a 74LS123 will change the timing? - Depends on the purpose of the gate. If it is not used to generate timing it should be no problem to replace it with a LS type. (IMHO) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 7 06:56:51 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <200203071823.KAA22692@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > >Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:50 -0000 > >From: "LEESON, Chris" > >Subject: Metro: Time runs out for Domesday discs > > > >The BBC's 1986 Domesday Project (a time capsule containing sound, images, > >video and data defining life in Britain) is now unreadable. The data was > >stored on 12-inch video discs that were only readable by the BBC Micro, of > >which only a handful still exist. The time capsule contains "250,000 place It's pretty silly when folks write articles like this and don't bother to do even the minimum of research, which would have revealed that there are plenty of BBC Micros still in existence. If the writer is referring to the video disc player (which would make more sense) then I can believe that there may only be a "handful" of complete systems left in existence, but this begs the question of why, inspite of them, this makes the videodiscs "unreadable". Duh. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Mar 7 07:10:08 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com> On the risk of getting OT, but desoldering ICs is certainly on-topic... > > Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my RX211 > Best method for replacing chips is to cut the pins of the broken > part and then take out the single pins with a desoldering pump. > Works good even on multilayers with a good soldering iron. Yes, I have not only heard this hint, but also tried to follow it. At least with my tools, I always have trouble getting to the pins to cut. There is not much room between a pin, the board, and the IC body. For the corner pins, it's quite easily doable, but when it comes to the other ones, you have remainings of neighbor pins that also get in the way. Using a pump is mandatory, no question about this. I sometimes can improve results by using some screening maze from a coax cable to take up solder that my pump would refuse to eat. I'd love to try one of those electric desolder pumps: it must be a great advantage if you have a continuous vacuum instead of one shot (even if in the case of this chip, a one-shot may be appropriate ;-). Jochen, you are in Germany as well: are those ELV7000 series kits still around somewhere? (For international readers: ELV used to be a German magazine for electronics hobbyists, and they created a series of very interesting devices, like voltage and frequency generators, measurement equipment etc., all to be homebuilt by their readers. However, at that time, I lacked the money for the kits. They appeared to be very good, but not very cheap.) Another point is the attribute "good" attached to "soldering iron". I do not have one of the common little stations with a transformer and an low voltage iron, and when I mention that my iron is a 70W type, people usually get scared. However, it is the only type I ever saw that is temperature controlled and adjustable, even though it looks like a cheap standard thingie and has no transformer with a stand and a sponge etc. I am happily using it for more than 20 years now, and the only trouble with it is the PVC insulation of the cable: it's fading now and will soon need replacement. I think if I use not too high a temperature, I can save the copper leads from getting off the epoxy, and it wouldn't matter if desoldering takes a bit longer: the bug is dead anyway. > > I suspect replacing the 74123 with a 74LS123 will change the timing? - > Depends on the purpose of the gate. If it is not used to generate > timing it should be no problem to replace it with a LS type. (IMHO) Haven't looked up what the other half of it is doing. The bad output is used to sample a signal coming from the address decoder and MSYN (master sync), IIRC. This signal is latched into a D-FF under control of the one-shot to generate SSYN (slave sync). Sounds much like bus timing, huh? I think I'll spend a socket on this chip, even if it wasn't there originally. This way, I might try a LS123 from my stock first, then a standard 123 if the LS type doesn't play. Meanwhile, I found formulas to compute the pulse duration, and, yes, they differ between LS and standard, not only in coefficients, but even in the form of the expression. In case somebody cares: 74123: t = 0.32 * R * C * (1 + 0.7 / R) with 5k < R < 50k 74LS123: t = 0.45 * R * C with 5k < R < 260k I might even want to read the UNIBUS specs... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 7 07:30:36 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard... Message-ID: <002301c1c5dc$4564de80$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Available for pickup only. -Pro350 in Floor stand case with Venix installed. No monitor/keyboard. Working system. -Pro380, untested believed working. No tube or keyboard. Due to size and weight, Pick up only. Location Framinham MA OR Hudson NH (real close to Nashua) for pick up. I'm limiting myself to only Qbus PDP-11s for my PDP-11 amusement and because the cards used are also Qbus VAX compatable. First come... Allison From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 7 07:37:57 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Beehive terminals CPU? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020307083757.0080a350@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> IIRC A couple of months ago somebody on this list said that the Beehive terminals used 4040 CPUs. Can anyone confirm that? Yesterday I spotted a pair of old two-tome brown Beehive terminals in a trash pile and I was wondering if I should go back and pick them up. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Mar 7 07:46:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: info on Intel 86/330 computer? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020307084612.00807100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just finished picking up four Intel Multibus computers. The labels on them say "sys 86/330" or "psyp 86/330". Is anyone familar with them? I searched Google but didn't find much except that they're not Y2K compatible. (surprise, surprise!) These have a six slot Multibus card rack inside with hard drive controller card with floppy drive daughter board, 256k memeory card, intel iSBC 86/30 CPU (8086) card with 8087 NDP daughterboard installed. They aslo have an 8" floppy drive and HAD an 8" hard drive (removed :-( Thery're in steel cases that measure about 14"w x 14"h x 20" deep and are painted a yellowish white color. Any info would be appreciated. Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Mar 7 08:01:08 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Texas Instruments TI 980A Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A696@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Ethan hollered: > Anybody else out there have one? My friend is going to keep digging in > the warehouse this month; he suspects he knows where some docs are, but > he's not sure. Nope... but bacmk in '74, IU borrowed one of these from the Chemistry department, and with the help of en electronic engineer/Chemist who worked there, developed a TTL-to-CDC 6000 Direct Channel interface in order to use the TI as a front-end processor for the 6600. It worked very well, and the computer center tried to get one budgeted, but in the long run, they ended up with a Modcomp II instead. However, due to its historical important in IU's computer center development, it's on my watch list. So if you get tired of it... From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Mar 7 08:25:05 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Soldering old iron (was: Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com>; from Andreas.Freiherr@Vishay.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:10:08PM +0100 References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020307152505.A21169@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:10:08PM +0100, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Yes, I have not only heard this hint, but also tried to follow it. At > least with my tools, I always have trouble getting to the pins to cut. I have some very small and fine edge cutters... > Using a pump is mandatory, no question about this. I sometimes can > improve results by using some screening maze from a coax cable to take > up solder that my pump would refuse to eat. There is some special desolderings maze. It is coated with flux and works better than screening maze. > Jochen, you are in Germany as well: > are those ELV7000 series kits still around somewhere? ELV ist (@$%&!#$%. Get a Weller or ERSA. Some years ago I bought a soldering station as birthday gift for a friend. It is a "simple" analog controled ERSA station with a 70W iron. He still has it and it works like on the first day. It is importand to have more than 50W and electronic control if you try to solder biger parts. This includes multi layer PCBs. You need the Wats to get the solder fast enough to melt, but without elctronic the iron is to hot. For desoldering 14 or 16 DIPs I use a big 175W Iron. I filed the end of this "hammer" to fit between the two pin rows. It looks horrible, but is very good. Put the iron on the back of the chip - 1 - 2 - plop the chip comes out of the PCB. > I think I'll spend a socket on this chip, even if it wasn't there > originally. _Allways_ use a socket when replace chips. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 08:47:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: IC replacement tricks (was Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?) In-Reply-To: <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020307144713.55063.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > On the risk of getting OT, but desoldering ICs is certainly on-topic... > > > > Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my > > > RX211 > > Best method for replacing chips is to cut the pins of the broken > > part and then take out the single pins with a desoldering pump. > > Works good even on multilayers with a good soldering iron. > > Yes, I have not only heard this hint, but also tried to follow it. At > least with my tools, I always have trouble getting to the pins to cut. > There is not much room between a pin, the board, and the IC body. I have a set of very sharp-nosed diagonal cutters - Xcelite, ISTR. They are not available at the hardware store or Radio Shack. You can get them at places like Greybar and such that sell electrical components. The IC-to-board clearance shouldn't matter. The best way to cut the pins is to hold the dikes so they point straight-up-and-down and cut right where the pin goes into the package (not possible for side-bonded ceramic, but those are rare and frequently socketed anyway). From the description of your problem, it sounds like you are trying to hold the dikes parallel to the board. The goal is not to eliminate an semblance of a pin above the board, but to free it from its neighbors so it can be removed on its own. I've found that the severed pin can frequently be lifted out by heating at the base, then lifting up when the solder flows - the severed shoulder snags on the tip of the iron and lifts right out. On multi-layer boards, it can be difficult to desolder the power and ground pins because the power and ground plane acts as a heat-sink. The best technique I've found is to apply the right temperature (too hot can blister off the traces) and flow in a lot of solder (1-2cm) Having a set of heat-resistant nonmetalic tweezers can be a help in pulling on the severed pin. It can take a while to get things flowing. Cleaning out the hole can be difficult, but it's much easier with the pin out of the way. I've found that mopping up can be aided with solder wick, but the actual hole needs to be suctioned out, sometimes from the other side (while heating the first side). > I think if I use not too high a temperature, I can save the copper leads > from getting off the epoxy, and it wouldn't matter if desoldering takes > a bit longer: the bug is dead anyway. Right. The point here is that the chip is known dead (or you don't care because you have a replacement) and the most important thing is to preserve the circuit board. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Mar 7 08:57:31 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Shipping Big Iron & Rail Right-Of-Way Abandonment In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A666@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A666@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Lots of old rail has been ripped-up in the chicago area...now the 'Illinos Prairie Path'. > > Where has rail been ripped up? I've never heard of that > > happening. Is it a national trend? > >Of course, I'm aware of it primarily through local examples, >but the local newspapers have run articles about how this is >happening throughout the nation.... the midwest probably has >more miles ot track to rip up, though... > >Recently, efforts have been underway to try to reclaim some >abandoned right-of-way and use it to create light rail (i.e. >trolley) lines... > >Once upon a time, there was a B&O spur that ran in front of the >home I lived in as a child (not far from here)... Dad and I would >walk one direction as far as the floodwall, and the other direction >usually only as far as a small drug store that sold hot mixed nuts. >Remember hot mixed nuts, hot peanuts, etc? > >Just a short walk further (which we never did) you'd find the >coal company who used to deliver the coal by which we used to >heat that house (did a natural gas conversion in '64 just before >we moved out). > >But all that line is not greeway, replete with joggers... > >:( > >-dq bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 7 09:09:22 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C8782A2.DE12B290@jetnet.ab.ca> Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:13:44AM +0100, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my RX211 > Best method for replacing chips is to cut the pins of the broken > part and then take out the single pins with a desoldering pump. > Works good even on multilayers with a good soldering iron. > > > I suspect replacing the 74123 with a 74LS123 will change the timing? - > Depends on the purpose of the gate. If it is not used to generate > timing it should be no problem to replace it with a LS type. (IMHO) Still check the schematic and a datasheet , as you have less drive on the LS chip and I think the 74123's and the 74LS123's handle the clear line differently. On one the clear could trigger the one shot. Also they have 74123's here for $1.28 http://www.rocelec.com/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Mar 7 15:41:02 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: AIM-65 Questions Message-ID: Hello all, I recently completed a trade for an AIM-65 that is about 80-90% working, but needs a little TLC. Hopefully someone here can help.... It appears to have the BASIC ROMs installed, and in the right sockets, but pressing "5" on the keyboard only results in the "<5>" display, and then the AIM hangs up. Only a press of the Reset button will free it up. I suspect the ROMs may be flaky, since one had quite a bit of (for lack of a better word) gunk on the tops of the pins. I cleanied it all off, but there may be some internal damage. These ROMs are part number 2332. I suspect these are 2732-compatible, at least in read mode, and not program mode... Does anyone have a ROM dump in Hex format? If so, could you email it to me so I can burn new ones? Actually, while I'm at it, if anyone has ANY of the AIM-65 ROMs dumped in Hex format, I'd appreciate copies. Then I could burn a whole new set... Also, the keyboard needs cleaning pretty badly. Unfortunately, I do not remember the manufacturer name or model #, but it is the standard AIM-65 keyboard. Has anyone ever fully taken one apart to clean it? If so, any gotchas? Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Mar 7 15:43:59 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Keys needed for Data I/O programmer Message-ID: Hello all, I have a Data I/O 201 EPROM burner that needs some repairs to the keypad. It is missing the 1, 4, and 7 keytops, along with the white plastic pieces that fit under the keys, and keep the contacts open. Does anyone have a dead Data I/O 201 (or similar) that they'd be willing to pitch in my direction? I suppose I should call Data I/O for parts, but I haven't tried them yet... Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Mar 7 09:45:23 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: OT: national control of internet Message-ID: Sellam said: >...governments want to try to control the >content, for various political and social reasons (political dissent, >porn, etc.) As we all know, try as they might, they won't be able to >control it, .... There is a scary article in last week's Weekly Standard that makes this a more shaky proposition. Basically the contention in the article is that the internet in China effectively *has* been placed under the control of the Chinese government. The key technology there has been developed by Cisco, AT&T, and other telecom giants given suitable financial inducement by the chinese government, and as I understood the article, it involves putting firewalls around the entire country, with enough power to sniff packets for subversive terms to effectively render the internet unusable to elements unfriendly to the government. The article does hold out hope, based on cryptography, "pirate" links from Hong Kong, etc. Anyway, I'm not currently convinced that internet access is currently synonomous with freedom of information exchange. - Mark From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Mar 7 09:54:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A9F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Guys, I've just had a conversation with the guy who originally told me about this product, and he had this to say (posted with his permission, of course): -----Original Message----- From: Brass Christof [mailto:welcome@spam.not] Yup, I stated so and I still remember that it was advertised by *NeXT*! At that time I was already a VMS afficionado but new to NeXTSTEP and wondered on which systems the applications could be run. And voil? - VMS was listed. Unfortunately I'm not sure at the moment whether it was VAX or Alpha but I assume it was Alpha. And I still have the flyer around somewhere but I don't think you'll be able to buy/get it. Good luck anyway! ------------------------- He also mentioned that it may have been and "in progress" port with a set release date that he saw, and that it was only the libraries, etc, so that you could compile NeXT stuff on VMS, but not develop it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 7 09:55:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: ADV: International Trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 calmanagement@earthlink.net wrote: > This is NOT SPAM - You have received this e-mail because at one time or > another you requested information from us regarding international trade Ok, since this is NOT SPAM, who signed up the list to receive spam from Itrade? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 7 09:57:02 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <200203072310.PAA28161@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > There's more technical info at http://www.atsf.co.uk/dottext/domesday.html > The videodisk players were specially modified for this purpose. > > "The data channel appears on a SCSI bus ... and SCSI had only just been > standardised at this time. This means that the player looked to the host > computer like a very large, somewhat slow, read-only hard disc. We had > never used a CD-ROM at that point. A read-only version of the BBC Micro > hierarchical disc filing system, now called VFS (for Videodisc Filing > System), is used to access the data in a way that adhered to the filing > system standards. In this way any code written for one filing system > could be used with another, providing both use the same subset of the > whole standard. Write-only systems obviously do not have sector write > primitives or means of modifying file attributes for example." > > It sounds like images were stored as PAL frames and were converted to RGB > for mixing with the BBC RGB output. If someone actually knows how the data is encoded then it doesn't sound very "unreadable" to me. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Mar 7 09:58:06 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Decwriters Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AA0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > > I have one spoken for, in Champaign, IL. That might be out of your > > way from (or to) Chicago, though. I'm not sure. > We could meet somewhere north of Champaign. After all, I am > going to have > to go just south of the lake anyway. Well, I've got to have somebody go out to Mass. to get the Prime anyway, so I'll probably just have them go past the museum. :) Out of curiosity, when are you making this trip, though? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 7 10:06:03 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE!!! (Mark-8) References: Message-ID: <3C878FEB.EDC678D5@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > memory (added a wire). That was it! It's pretty cool - just toggled in a > test program and watched the lights blink as it looped over and over. Now > I have to build a case and find a better power supply than my bench supply > for permanent use, and then I start wire-wrapping an ELF! Whee! Hmm that could make santa real mad! Great work. How much was the board and parts if you don't mind me asking? BTW if you want to upgrade to a 12/24 bit cpu I can sell you my prototype. Must be worth a fortune as there is only one made.:) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 7 10:12:53 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <001201c1c5f2$f06e4300$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Thanks everyone. The two Pros are claimed. In the future there may be other hardware but, not alot. I'm not getting out it's more a selection process as I with to run more of the peices and that takes space. Allison From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Mar 7 11:00:16 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Soldering old iron (was: Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console,what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com> <20020307152505.A21169@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C879CA0.6C69315D@Vishay.com> Seems like a should update my tools collection: > I have some very small and fine edge cutters... > There is some special desolderings maze. It is coated with flux and > works better than screening maze. > ELV ist (@$%&!#$%. Get a Weller or ERSA. OK, sorry for even asking. What I am currently using is an ERSA TC70. Seems to be a bit rare, most people don't know about it, but it IS a 70W type (so you have the power for multilayer or bigger links), and it has temperature control (so it won't get too hot) and is adjustable, as I said (250..375 centigrade, IIRC). It's just not electronics, but instead, they built a thermo switch (bi-metal) into the tip. > For desoldering 14 or 16 DIPs I use a big 175W Iron. I filed the > end of this "hammer" to fit between the two pin rows. It looks > horrible, but is very good. Put the iron on the back of the chip - > 1 - 2 - plop the chip comes out of the PCB. Sounds quite nice. Again, time to update the tool set. You certainly have to clean up the PCB afterwards, but as long as you do this with a smaller iron... ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Mar 7 11:16:16 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: IC replacement tricks (was Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer'sconsole, what should I do with it?) References: <20020307144713.55063.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C87A060.324BE3A0@Vishay.com> > > Yes, I have not only heard this hint, but also tried to follow it. At > > least with my tools, I always have trouble getting to the pins to cut. > > There is not much room between a pin, the board, and the IC body. > > I have a set of very sharp-nosed diagonal cutters - Xcelite, ISTR. They... Probably, that's the point: I really need to get smaller-tipped cutters. > ... From the description > of your problem, it sounds like you are trying to hold the dikes parallel > to the board. I need to, because I can't get the tips between the shoulders of the pins: because the pins are wider near the IC body, there is even less room between them, and my cutter won't fit in. So I can only cut closer to the board, even if I know that this may require the board to take higher mechanical forces, compared to cutting near the chip. OK, you convinced me: I'll go out and find better tools. Probably time to do so anyway: I think I bought my current ones in the 1970s. > On multi-layer boards, it can be difficult to desolder the power and > ground pins because the power and ground plane acts as a heat-sink. The No problem: see my previous note about soldering iron. The 70W thing has sufficient power, well under control, and I can switch between a pen-shape and a screwdriver-shaped tip with no tools (provided it's not currently at nominal temperature... ;-). For desoldering, I prefer the screwdriver shape because it can easily transfer a lot of heat through the flat surface. And, yes, it can help to add solder first: this can improve thermal contact. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Mar 7 11:20:43 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > There are 2 board versions that use the 40 pin ASIC shown in my manual -- > 25136 and 25229. They are pretty similar, so I can give some more hints > withoug further information I have the 25229. > OK, what I'd do is use a logic probe to look at pins 25,24,23 of the ASIC > while the head is supposed to be moving. You should see square waves on > all of them. Of course if you have a 3 channel (or more) logic analyser > you can make sure they actually look like stepper motor drive waveforms. All I have is an HP 54615B 2-channel scope, so I can't look at all three at the same time, but they all had square waves while it was attempting to move. > Otherwise, look at the outputs of the appropriate sections of 1B. If one > of those isn't switching, change the 7404 (this is not a likely fault, > though). I got square waves out of here. I didn't compare the inputs and outputs, I just checked to see that a square wave is coming out, instead of seeing if it was inverted. I've never seen one fail like that though, but I could go back and check it. > Finally look at the collectors of the appropiate sections of 1C. Most > likely one is never going low, in which case change the ULN2074. I checked pins 8, 9, and 16; if I read your diagram right, those should be the collectors. All them produced the square wave as well. > You mean you don't have a small screwdriver? I've removed dozens of ICs > with just a small screwdriver. The trick is to work from both ends of the > socket and keep the chip as level as possible. That way you won't bend > the pins. I do...the last time I used it was on a set of RDC19202-303's (resolver to digital converters). They cost about $1,800. I didn't mess anything up, but came close. At that point I decided I'd quit using the screw driver method on things that aren't easily (or cheaply) replaceable. > However, I think it's time to stop swapping parts around and to actually > use some test equipment. I agree... Any idea on what I should try next? Thanks, Tom From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Mar 7 11:21:58 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? Message-ID: <20020307172158.GE3387@mrbill.net> Hrm. Question I got in the mail today: (combination of three emails I got from him..) >I have the 20th Anniversary PDP 11/83 that I won at the 1989 DECUS in >New Orleans. I have RSTS/E 10.0-L running on it. It had been sitting >since 1992 and I booted it up about 4 months ago and it has been running >since. > >I'm kind of partial to it. I go back to 1981 in RSTS/E with a PDP 11/70. >I would like to know how valuable it is? > >It is painted Black and has the 20th Anniversary PDP logo on both sides >and the front of it. And I probably have the shipping papers that came >with it. Thoughts? What *would* a machine like this be worth? Bill (BTW, I'm looking for an 11/73, /83, or /93...) -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Mar 7 11:22:43 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C8782A2.DE12B290@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C87A1E3.A36BA88D@Vishay.com> Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Still check the schematic and a datasheet , as you have less drive > on the LS chip and I think the 74123's and the 74LS123's handle > the clear line differently. On one the clear could trigger the one shot. Yes, thanks for the hint. At least for that half that died, the clear line won't be a problem: it's simply pulled up together with the active-high input (pin 2). Fanout will also be no trouble: pin 4 only has to drive a single standard TTL input (or maybe even LS-TTL). Maybe this one will have a fan-in of 2 or so, but no more. I'm just not sure about what the other half has to do. I promise, I'll check before I proceed. > Also they have 74123's here for $1.28 http://www.rocelec.com/ Good price, but when you add shipping, maybe I find something equivalent around here. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 7 11:42:30 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Soldering old iron (was: Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer'sconsole,what should I do with it? References: <20020306212608.70195.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C86BEC8.EC5600B0@Vishay.com> <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C8766B0.A0463D9A@Vishay.com> <20020307152505.A21169@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C879CA0.6C69315D@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3C87A686.B0BE45C@jetnet.ab.ca> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Sounds quite nice. Again, time to update the tool set. You certainly > have to clean up the PCB afterwards, but as long as you do this with a > smaller iron... ;-) Reminds me of getting TTL of old PCB's... gas torch and a good thump. Never tried it myself. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Mar 7 11:48:24 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Beehive terminals CPU? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Joe wrote: > > > IIRC A couple of months ago somebody on this list said that the > > Beehive terminals used 4040 CPUs. Can anyone confirm that? Yesterday I > > spotted a pair of old two-tome brown Beehive terminals in a trash pile > > and I was wondering if I should go back and pick them up. > > I have a huge monster of a Beehive terminal that was from the era of the > 4040, so I can take a look inside and see. If I remember correctly, it > had a big card cage inside with numerous boards. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > I used to have an older Beehive (70s vintage) terminal, it had an all aluminum case and was all hardware, no processor, + MOS shift registers for display mem. Maybe the newer ones use a uproc... Peter Wallace From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 7 11:50:47 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? References: <20020307172158.GE3387@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3C87A877.598605B7@internet1.net> I'm not any kind of authority, but I would guess that it is going to depend on what it is exactly. His composite email says 11/83, but your (his?) subject line says 11/83. If it is an 11/93, then it's pretty uncommon in the hobbiest sector, I think. Also, wouldn't that make it a 20mhz J11, making it quite valuable? If it's an 11/83 then it would be the 18mhz J11. course if it's got a qbus scsi card, well then you know it's worth some dough :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bill Bradford wrote: > > Hrm. Question I got in the mail today: > > (combination of three emails I got from him..) > > >I have the 20th Anniversary PDP 11/83 that I won at the 1989 DECUS in > >New Orleans. I have RSTS/E 10.0-L running on it. It had been sitting > >since 1992 and I booted it up about 4 months ago and it has been running > >since. > > > >I'm kind of partial to it. I go back to 1981 in RSTS/E with a PDP 11/70. > >I would like to know how valuable it is? > > > >It is painted Black and has the 20th Anniversary PDP logo on both sides > >and the front of it. And I probably have the shipping papers that came > >with it. > > Thoughts? What *would* a machine like this be worth? > > Bill (BTW, I'm looking for an 11/73, /83, or /93...) > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX From tuban at cisco.com Thu Mar 7 11:53:07 2002 From: tuban at cisco.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: photo of an 11/70 rack header panel please Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020307114711.00b9be50@mira-sjc5-2.cisco.com> Hello, I am looking for a nice clear and clean digital photo of the PDP 11/70 specific rack header (logo) panel, of the purple variety. I have an 11/70 in need of the correct panel and I have a blank panel from some other company, so I want to create a temporary panel until I can locate a real one... Thanks in advance! Please send the photo off-line, unless there is more interest than just my own. --tnx --tom From vance at ikickass.org Thu Mar 7 11:54:23 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Here's a link you all might like.... In-Reply-To: <200203070046.QAA28562@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > If you say Richard Head you will get one virtual nerf brick > > > > I once worked with a technician called Richard Head. Seriously... > > In the US we actually have a legislator named Richard Ryder. I pity his > constituents (I don't think it's the Bay Area, either). Lest we not forget Rep. Dick Armey? Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 11:56:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: AIM-65 Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020307175636.51254.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rich Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > I recently completed a trade for an AIM-65... > > ... (the) ROMs are part number 2332. I suspect these are > 2732-compatible, at least in read mode, and not program mode... Rich, I dropped you a note off-list, but I wanted to mention to the group that the drop-in replacement for the 2332 masked-programmed ROM is the 2532, not the 2732. If you only need to use 2K of the space (like we did for just the BASIC toolkit under CBM BASIC 2.0, for example) you can use a 2716 in a 2332 socket. I, too, would like a dump of the original AIM-65 ROMs. I have a working AIM with some 2332 chips and some 2532 chips, because the company that originally ordered the AIMs, customized them for their field personnel. I do not have a full set of original firmware. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 12:15:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Soldering old iron (was: Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer'sconsole,what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <3C87A686.B0BE45C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020307181527.82225.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Reminds me of getting TTL of old PCB's... gas torch and a good thump. > Never tried it myself. Works on old enough boards - double-sided mostly. Multilayer boards have thicker plating and smaller effective-diameter through-holes. Doesn't work well if the leads are clinched. Personally, I reflow the board over a solder pot that's overfilled, and remove the ICs with a chip puller (to keep my hands away from them, and to provide enough grip to make clinched leads release). I have recovered a few pounds of 41256 chips that way (from boards that were previously stripped of other things) and a wad of things off ISA motherboards. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 7 12:23:41 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <200203071823.KAA22692@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> >Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:50 -0000 >From: "LEESON, Chris" >Subject: Metro: Time runs out for Domesday discs > >The BBC's 1986 Domesday Project (a time capsule containing sound, images, >video and data defining life in Britain) is now unreadable. The data was >stored on 12-inch video discs that were only readable by the BBC Micro, of >which only a handful still exist. The time capsule contains "250,000 place >names, 25,000 maps, 50,000 pictures, 3,000 data sets and 60 minutes of >moving pictures.". The article notes that the original Domesday Book >(compiled in 1086 for tax purposes) is still in "mint condition". >[Source: London *Metro*, 01 Mar 2002] > >Additional comments of my own: > >The BBC Micro, along with the original Sinclair Computers, was the computer >that sparked off the "computer revolution" in the UK. The BBC Micro was >especially popular in schools, whereas the Sinclair computers were more >popular in the home. > >To be fair, the 1986 Domesday Project was in the days before the really >rapid changes in technology came into force - the BBC Micro was not a bad >choice of platform then, especially when you consider that there were very >few other choices available (50,000 pictures alone take up a lot of space). > >Moral/Risk: If you are wanting long-term data storage, the format is just as >important as the materials. > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56: >'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for one...), but >is worth keeping in mind. I still have an old Commodore 64/128 disk with my >(very) old account details on it - not that I have a C64/128 any more. My >permanent records, however, are the printouts. > >PS: "Domed... We are all Doomed..." From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 7 12:31:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? References: <20020307172158.GE3387@mrbill.net> <3C87A877.598605B7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C87B211.A6C4E8C3@internet1.net> Now I'm doing it..... I meant...... His composite email says 11/83, but your (his?) subject line says 11/93. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I'm not any kind of authority, but I would guess that it is going to > depend on what it is exactly. His composite email says 11/83, but your > (his?) subject line says 11/83. From jss at subatomix.com Thu Mar 7 12:40:52 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: photo of an 11/70 rack header panel please In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020307114711.00b9be50@mira-sjc5-2.cisco.com> Message-ID: <20020307123910.V39563-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > I am looking for a nice clear and clean digital photo of the PDP 11/70 > specific rack header (logo) panel, of the purple variety. I have an > 11/70 in need of the correct panel and I have a blank panel from some > other company, so I want to create a temporary panel until I can locate > a real one... > > Thanks in advance! Please send the photo off-line, unless there is more > interest than just my own. Me too, me too. I have the 11/70 logo panel, but it has been severely discolored due to sitting so long in the elements. I would appreciate such an image also. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From hstaffa at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 7 12:53:26 2002 From: hstaffa at ix.netcom.com (Hank Staffa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Old escala DPX 201 Message-ID: <23a201c1c609$5e4b8f20$0fe6aec7@k1l2u3> I am trying to no evail find out what a honeywell bull escala dpx201 takes for memory ? Can anyone help -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/9fdd96fa/attachment.html From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Mar 7 13:29:14 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6AE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Moral/Risk: If you are wanting long-term data storage, the format is just as > >important as the materials. > > > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56: > >'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for one...), but > >is worth keeping in mind. I still have an old Commodore 64/128 disk with my > >(very) old account details on it - not that I have a C64/128 any more. My > >permanent records, however, are the printouts. Hogwash. I can't recall how many times someone handed me a tape back in the 80s, totally unaware of the format of the data on it, that required only time and dedication in order to turn back into something useful. NASA hasn't lost data, it's lost the will to hire and retain talented people who can make things work. Just like everyplace else in this whacko economy... -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 14:02:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:10 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55B Floppy Oddity In-Reply-To: from "John Chris Wren" at Mar 6, 2 11:44:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/b9860f76/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 14:05:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Beehive terminals CPU? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 7, 2 09:13:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/34818c90/attachment.ksh From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Mar 7 14:20:11 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? In-Reply-To: <3C87A877.598605B7@internet1.net> References: <20020307172158.GE3387@mrbill.net> <3C87A877.598605B7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020307202011.GG6115@mrbill.net> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 12:50:47PM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'm not any kind of authority, but I would guess that it is going to > depend on what it is exactly. His composite email says 11/83, but your > (his?) subject line says 11/83. If it is an 11/93, then it's pretty > uncommon in the hobbiest sector, I think. Also, wouldn't that make it a > 20mhz J11, making it quite valuable? If it's an 11/83 then it would be > the 18mhz J11. > course if it's got a qbus scsi card, well then you know it's worth some > dough :-) Its an 11/83... I must have typoed. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Mar 7 14:21:42 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: photo of an 11/70 rack header panel please In-Reply-To: <20020307123910.V39563-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020307114711.00b9be50@mira-sjc5-2.cisco.com> <20020307123910.V39563-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020307202142.GH6115@mrbill.net> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 12:40:52PM -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Me too, me too. I have the 11/70 logo panel, but it has been severely > discolored due to sitting so long in the elements. I would appreciate > such an image also. I have a bunch of the black-with-offwhite-borders cover panels for DEC cabinets/racks, if anybody is looking for some.. I have at least ten of them. (13"x19"? something like that) Got a d|i|g|i|t|a|l pdp11 header panel too, but its MINE! 8-) bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 14:22:48 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6AE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020307202248.33315.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before > > > (RISKS-21.56: 'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file > > > format'... > > NASA hasn't lost data, it's lost the will to hire and > retain talented people who can make things work. Just > like everyplace else in this whacko economy... No arguing with that, but I think this particular example is real. The problem is oversimplified and understated with the phrase "forgotton file format" - if I'm remembering the incident accurately, it was more a case of "obsolete media format" - 200 bpi *7* track tape, once common. I know that a friend of mine from the Ice worked on a project to digest metric tons of 2MT7 (not that it was ever called that, but as a label to differentiate it from the more common 16MT9) loaded with data from the Apollo program. IIRC, some of it was data pertaining to the laser reflectometer and how many wavelengths of light the moon is from us at any particular moment (an experiement which shows physical evidence the moon is still ringing like a struck bell from a "recent" impact, possibly one observed and documented 500 years ago in Europe and China). The rig they used (making this on-topic!) was a PDP-11 with a 7-track tape drive (don't know the model number) and an 8mm Exabyte drive, probably an 8200, but I don't know for certain. In between the tape drives, on the PDP-11 was some simple copying software and some slave labor^H^H^H^H^H^H^Ha graduate student. I don't have exact numbers, but it was on the order of several cubic meters of magtape distilled down to a file drawer of 8mm carts. Presumably, multiple copies were made and disseminated (one would hate to think all that work would end up on tapes that were never read again). I heard about this project during the 1995-1996 austral summer. -ethan P.S. - it was reminscent of the problems of reading the 1960 census. I'd heard that the only extant copy of the data was on microfilmed round-holed punch cards. Round-holed because that's the equipment (Univac?) they used for that census. Microfilmed because the climate controlled warehouse for that many punch cards for that many decades was getting too expensive to maintain. Various schemes were floated for recovering that data when the time came (since all census data is _eventually_ released, 70 years later in the case of details). In the end, I think, a 7 track tape copy of the data was found and read, obviating the need to OCR millions of microfilmed punch cards. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Mar 7 14:40:18 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: New aquisition: Texas Instruments TI 980A References: <20020307055223.82619.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C87D032.1040200@dragonsweb.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Just got a strange little toy from a friend who dug it out of a warehouse > today... a TI 980A. I found a little bit on Al Kossow's Orphan page; does > anyone know of any other sources for info on the 'net? > > It appears to be a 16-bit mini from 1972, 4Kwords to 32Kwords (mine > has 8KW) with a variety of period peripherals available. Mine has an > I/O card, a TTY card and a homemade card that extends the DMA slot > and takes the signals over to a rack-mounted tray that is about 2.5 sq ft. > of wire wrap sockets and chips dating from 1970 to 1993 (it was apparently > in service somewhat recently I'm told). The CPU is on two cards plus a > memory controller. > > That's about all I have on it at the moment. Oh! It does have toggle > switches and blinkenlights. Here's what I could glean by reading > numbers off of cards... > > "Arithmetic Unit 1" - assy 960754-0001E Board No 960755-001C > "Arithmetic Unit 2" - assy 960751-0001G Board No 960752-001C > "1103 Memory" - assy 226844-004N/RS Logic 226846-F (8K) > "Memory Controller" - assy 960746-0001E Logic 960777-A > "TTY interface" - assy 217394-0001H Logic 217359-F > "I/O interface" - assy 960757-0001A Logic 960759 > > > Anybody else out there have one? My friend is going to keep digging in > the warehouse this month; he suspects he knows where some docs are, but > he's not sure. > > -ethan > A list member has auctioned a couple of 980B's on Ebay. They came from Jeol NMR spectrometers where they were used to do Fourier transforms. (I'd think they'd be running the instruments too, but they wouldn't have to. I hope, too, that these were from upgrades and the spectrometers didn't just get junked.) I think Kossow got one of them. Check with him. Best I've been able to find out, from a former TI field service tech, the 980 uses a version of the TILINE bus, whereas the 960's used strictly CRU (serial) and the 990 has both. I don't know a lot about it other than that. The CPU is not the same as 990. I believe the ALU is capable of some vector operations, but I could be wrong about that. I'd expect there's a lot of similarity, though. Wish I knew more. jbdigriz From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Mar 7 14:54:04 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6B5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > NASA hasn't lost data, it's lost the will to hire and > > retain talented people who can make things work. Just > > like everyplace else in this whacko economy... > > No arguing with that, but I think this particular example is real. The > problem is oversimplified and understated with the phrase "forgotton file > format" - if I'm remembering the incident accurately, it was more a case > of "obsolete media format" - 200 bpi *7* track tape, once common. Oh, it can be worse- CDC used to have 1-inch, 14-track drives, too... > I heard about this project during the 1995-1996 austral summer. > > -ethan > > P.S. - it was reminscent of the problems of reading the 1960 census. Like many genealogists, I'm still moaning the burning of the federal copies of the 1890 census. Can't tell you how many people would give up years of their lives to have that data. Each county should have kept their own originals, and each state should have kept a copy of their state's. But very little has ever surfaced other than the federal ones. OTOH, Harrison County, Indiana, where my ancestors settled after leaving the Shenandoah Valley, managed to finds its 1810 census, and hardly any region can find those anymore... From dittman at dittman.net Thu Mar 7 14:59:45 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <20020307202248.33315.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 07, 2002 12:22:48 PM Message-ID: <200203072059.g27KxjJ19650@narnia.int.dittman.net> > The rig they used (making this on-topic!) was a PDP-11 with a 7-track > tape drive (don't know the model number) and an 8mm Exabyte drive, > probably an 8200, but I don't know for certain. In between the tape > drives, on the PDP-11 was some simple copying software and some > slave labor^H^H^H^H^H^H^Ha graduate student. I don't have exact numbers, > but it was on the order of several cubic meters of magtape distilled down > to a file drawer of 8mm carts. Presumably, multiple copies were made > and disseminated (one would hate to think all that work would end up > on tapes that were never read again). I hope someone is going to transfer the data from the 8mm tapes to some other format while the tapes can still be read. I've read some discussions about problems with long-term storage of 8mm tapes. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Mar 7 15:01:26 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: OT: national control of internet References: Message-ID: <3C87D526.9040800@dragonsweb.org> Mark Tapley wrote: > Sellam said: > > >>...governments want to try to control the >>content, for various political and social reasons (political dissent, >>porn, etc.) As we all know, try as they might, they won't be able to >>control it, .... >> > > There is a scary article in last week's Weekly Standard that makes > this a more shaky proposition. Basically the contention in the article is > that the internet in China effectively *has* been placed under the control > of the Chinese government. The key technology there has been developed by > Cisco, AT&T, and other telecom giants given suitable financial inducement > by the chinese government, and as I understood the article, it involves > putting firewalls around the entire country, with enough power to sniff > packets for subversive terms to effectively render the internet unusable to > elements unfriendly to the government. > The article does hold out hope, based on cryptography, "pirate" > links from Hong Kong, etc. > Anyway, I'm not currently convinced that internet access is > currently synonomous with freedom of information exchange. > - Mark > > > > Yes, I saw that article, too. Oddly enough, the internal firewalls that the running-dog corporate, capitalist lackeys of the evil, repressive Chinese government have installed, while great for surveilling the populace and shutting down hotbeds of sedition like internet cafes or Falun Gong websites, appears to have done nothing to stem the tidal wave of spam, worms, and DDOS attacks coming from Chinese servers, leading to selfless, concerned, civic-minded sysadmins around the world to basically netblock China. An external firewall as well. Funny how that wasn't mentioned. Topicality: Maybe we can punish them by refusing to ship our old computers to them? jbdigriz From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 7 15:16:58 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: References: <200203071823.KAA22692@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020307150927.023cc7c8@pc> At 12:56 PM 3/7/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: >It's pretty silly when folks write articles like this and don't bother to >do even the minimum of research, which would have revealed that there are >plenty of BBC Micros still in existence. If the writer is referring to >the video disc player (which would make more sense) then I can believe >that there may only be a "handful" of complete systems left in existence, >but this begs the question of why, inspite of them, this makes the >videodiscs "unreadable". You'd think the actual problem must be that the discs are becoming unreadable, or that kind of LD player is hard to find or maintain, or that there was some custom controller that's in need of repair. I doubt BBC Micros are rare in the UK. You'd think an emulator would be created to recreate the gizmo. Here's a free business idea. I'm sure there's going to be a market for CD and CD-R recovery ten years from now, after we've all used our supply of nearly-free CD-R blanks. Similarly, I wish there was a device for low-level recovery of 8mm video tapes. I'm lamenting a year or more of tapes I recorded of my young kids, on a Sony camcorder that suffered from cheap capacitors that rot over time (leaving a fishy smell) and cause the recorder to fail slowly, as well as loosening tape guides. Playback of the most recently recorded stuff worked, and I never bothered to check tapes on a second deck, or check older material. It drifted out of sync. In both cases, you'll need a device that deals with error recovery at lower-level bit streams, or digitizing and reinterpretation of what's there - a sync regenerator, if you will. Like Jerome Fine's digitizing 9-track. - John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 7 16:26:17 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: IBM PC Server 500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020307222617.15266.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > Yeah give me some of those 62.8 ohm resistors, been searching for some of > them for a while :-) Sorry... just ran out. All I have are these 125.6 ohm resistors... :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 7 16:31:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Round holes (square pegs?) RE: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <20020307202248.33315.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > P.S. - it was reminscent of the problems of reading the 1960 census. I'd > heard that the only extant copy of the data was on microfilmed round-holed > punch cards. Round-holed because that's the equipment (Univac?) they > used for that census. Microfilmed because the climate controlled warehouse Round-holed because IBM got a patent on the shape of the hole in punch cards! Until the patent was overturned, other companies tried various ridiculous work arounds, such as round holes. IBM also got a patent on using a metal brush and brass roller for card reading. That really bollixed up the industry! Some tried 960 push buttons in a matrix, etc. Then somebody finally succeeded in using light and photocell. Suddenly the IBM patent that blocked everybody else's card readers was responsible for the competition coming out with a card reader that was significantly faster than IBM's! Sorry, but I don't have references and details on these events. My father had told me about them before he died. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 16:33:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? In-Reply-To: <20020307114449.A241973@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Mar 7, 2 11:44:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/c69fa94a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 16:54:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: AIM-65 Questions In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Mar 7, 2 03:41:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/ab748eb2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 17:01:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 7, 2 12:20:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2565 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/305e555f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 7 17:05:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <200203071823.KAA22692@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Mar 7, 2 10:23:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 695 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020307/0263d791/attachment.ksh From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 7 17:10:27 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 7, 2002 12:56:51 pm" Message-ID: <200203072310.PAA28161@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > It's pretty silly when folks write articles like this and don't bother to > do even the minimum of research, which would have revealed that there are > plenty of BBC Micros still in existence. If the writer is referring to > the video disc player (which would make more sense) then I can believe > that there may only be a "handful" of complete systems left in existence, > but this begs the question of why, inspite of them, this makes the > videodiscs "unreadable". There's more technical info at http://www.atsf.co.uk/dottext/domesday.html The videodisk players were specially modified for this purpose. "The data channel appears on a SCSI bus ... and SCSI had only just been standardised at this time. This means that the player looked to the host computer like a very large, somewhat slow, read-only hard disc. We had never used a CD-ROM at that point. A read-only version of the BBC Micro hierarchical disc filing system, now called VFS (for Videodisc Filing System), is used to access the data in a way that adhered to the filing system standards. In this way any code written for one filing system could be used with another, providing both use the same subset of the whole standard. Write-only systems obviously do not have sector write primitives or means of modifying file attributes for example." It sounds like images were stored as PAL frames and were converted to RGB for mixing with the BBC RGB output. Eric From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 17:10:49 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <200203071823.KAA22692@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56: > >'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for one...), but > >is worth keeping in mind. Urban myth. Every bit of every mission is available on CD-ROM. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 17:15:51 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AA0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: > Well, I've got to have somebody go out to Mass. to get the > Prime anyway, so I'll probably just have them go past the > museum. :) Talk to me off the list. > Out of curiosity, when are you making this trip, though? End of April. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Mar 7 17:42:08 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Decwriters Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AB5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > > Well, I've got to have somebody go out to Mass. to get the > > Prime anyway, so I'll probably just have them go past the > > museum. :) > Talk to me off the list. I did attempt to contact you off list, after you emailed me a reply to my original question about how much this thing would cost to ship. :) I just assumed you were busy and hadn't gotten around to answering. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 7 17:42:46 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L References: Message-ID: <3C87FAF6.41FC1C56@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: > > > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56: > > >'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for one...), but > > >is worth keeping in mind. > > Urban myth. Every bit of every mission is available on CD-ROM. I thought I read the Mars lander machine readable data was lost from 1976? because the format the data was saved in was not documented and the programmer on the project died, and the computer used was scrapped. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 7 17:51:26 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: from William Donzelli at "Mar 7, 2002 06:10:49 pm" Message-ID: <200203072351.PAA28961@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > >This is not a new problem - It has appeared in Risks before (RISKS-21.56: > > >'NASA data from 1970s lost due to "forgotten" file format' for one...), but > > >is worth keeping in mind. > > Urban myth. Every bit of every mission is available on CD-ROM. Depends upon how you define mission. I have NASA data that doesn't appear anywhere except in my possession. Not that it would be of much interest. The "forgotten file format" problem I'm recalling is actually a forgotten record encoding problem that exists with some data stored on mylar (IIRC) punch tape. The data exists and is readable, but how to convert it into something physically meaningful has been lost. The item referred to above is as follows: "In 1999, USC neurobiologist Joseph Miller asked NASA to check some old data the Viking probes had sent back from Mars in the mid-1970s. Miller wanted to find out whether certain information on gas released by Martian soil, which at the time had been dismissed as meaningless "chemical activity," was actually evidence of microbial life. NASA found the tapes he requested, but they didn't find any way to read them. It turns out that the data, despite being only about 25 years old, was in a format NASA had long since forgotten about. Or, as Miller puts it, "The programmers who knew it had died." Luckily, Miller has been able to cobble together about a third of the data and get some useful results, but only because some form of printed record had been saved. (And yes, he does believe the Viking probes turned up evidence of microbes.) Source: Reuters.... " From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 18:03:21 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <3C87FAF6.41FC1C56@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I thought I read the Mars lander machine readable data was lost > from 1976? because the format the data was saved in was not documented > and the programmer on the project died, and the computer used was > scrapped. No. Funny that you mention the Viking mission - one of the guys at RCS has the actual tapes. Plain ol' 9 tracks. The thing that might have been the seed for all of this "NASA lost data" mythology is that the original telemetry tapes may be gone. When anything was launched by NASA (or the military), the telemetry receivers would record the information in analog format - the video coming right off the receivers. This was done so the data was recorded in real time, reduntantly, even if a computer crashed - the "dumb" tape decks would record regardless of the world around them. Only later would the analog tapes be read and converted into digital data. Telemetry tape drives, as with most lab grade tape drives, were built to a number of standards, some of which died off and faded into obscurity. NASA, however, was smart enough to covert the data into a far more stable format before the telemetry tapes would have decayed. I would not be suprised if it was only hours after the data came back to Earth. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 18:25:24 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <200203072351.PAA28961@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: > Depends upon how you define mission. I have NASA data that doesn't > appear anywhere except in my possession. Not that it would be of much > interest. I do not know how to define it - I would have to ask my source. Certainly it means the spaceshots and the probes. > The "forgotten file format" problem I'm recalling is actually a forgotten > record encoding problem that exists with some data stored on mylar (IIRC) punch > tape. The data exists and is readable, but how to convert it into something > physically meaningful has been lost. Well, I could believe that some high level data formatting might have faded into obscurity (damn programmers not leaving comments in their code!), but as far as the raw data - that is available, even the boring parts. A great number of people, including those writing articles for respectable magazines and papers, tend to paint a broad picture of actual data being lost due to fading media and obsolete, scrapped computers. This is simply false. The Census people also get damned as well for the same crimes, and once again, false. Simply false. In regards to that "1 in 5" myth about the Interstates - even *Smithsonian* magazine is guilty on that count! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Mar 7 18:37:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: ADV: International Trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 calmanagement@earthlink.net wrote: > > > This is NOT SPAM - You have received this e-mail because at one time or > > another you requested information from us regarding international trade Umm, that post looked like a duck & quacked like a duck.... I don't _care_ if they said it wasn't a duck. Doc From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Mar 7 18:56:58 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: ADV: International Trade References: Message-ID: <3C880C5A.7080007@dragonsweb.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 calmanagement@earthlink.net wrote: > > >>This is NOT SPAM - You have received this e-mail because at one time or >>another you requested information from us regarding international trade >> > > Ok, since this is NOT SPAM, who signed up the list to receive spam from > Itrade? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Yeah, what a coincidence. Just after my comments on hypocritical hand-waving re the Great Firewall of China, to Tapley, earlier today. Maybe some shit-disturber with a warped sense of "humor"? Maybe the same joker who has Earthlink, otherwise one of the better big ISP's, inconvenience their customers by blocking port 25 outbound and sending them nastygrams accusing them of running one of those wicked open relays if they attempt to send mail to an Earthlink address from their own mail server on an Earthlink dialup. (Not a problem if you come from outside or bypass the MX servers and use an internal corporate relay like calmanagement here has done.) No, I don't spam, of course not. There are people dumb enough of course not to know yet that spamming is moronic and counterproductive as a business practice, and there will be until everyone has been on the net for some time, and there are also people who think it's a clever way to annoy people. Same kind of people who get off on cyber, prolly. Why reward wankers like them? I just ignore what little can't be filtered out (without stomping on legitimate mail, dammit, I once lost out on a killer deal on pallet load of Pentium II Overdrive upgrades because the guy's ISP was using DUL blocking) and I heartily recommend this approach to anyone. jbdigriz From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Mar 7 18:57:41 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > OK. It sounds like the ASIC is working correctly. Do this look like > stepper drive waveforms (3 similar signals with a phase offset between > them)? As far as I can tell, although I've never worked with steppers before. > Is this with the motor connected? Yes > If you're getting square waves at the driver collectors with the motor > connected then either the motor is faulty (but you've board-swapped > between the 2 drives so you know it's OK), or there's an open > connection somewhere. I checked the connections. Maybe there's a bad diode in there somewhere? Any other ideas? Thanks, Tom From rbl at hal.EPBI.cwru.edu Thu Mar 7 19:16:22 2002 From: rbl at hal.EPBI.cwru.edu (Robin Lake) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <1A54EF2D-3232-11D6-95BC-000393568996@hal.cwru.edu> So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare boards. Several monitors. Rob Lake lake@cwru.edu From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Mar 7 20:00:51 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines References: <1A54EF2D-3232-11D6-95BC-000393568996@hal.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <3C881B53.458DD890@jetnet.ab.ca> Robin Lake wrote: > > So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare > boards. Several monitors. > > Rob Lake > lake@cwru.edu What is/was it? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 20:28:03 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Decwriters In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AB5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: > I did attempt to contact you off list, after you emailed me > a reply to my original question about how much this thing > would cost to ship. :) > > I just assumed you were busy and hadn't gotten around to > answering. I don't remember getting that - maybe I canned it by accident, without reading. Sorry. Anyway, I'll contact you off list. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Mar 7 20:38:30 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <1A54EF2D-3232-11D6-95BC-000393568996@hal.cwru.edu> References: <1A54EF2D-3232-11D6-95BC-000393568996@hal.cwru.edu> Message-ID: <20020308023829.GB2952@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From torquil at rockbridge.net Thu Mar 7 20:47:45 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard References: <001201c1c5f2$f06e4300$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <015101c1c64b$a3e9f430$0200a8c0@tm2000> Hi, I think it is very nice of you to give away machines like this. I was just wondering if you'd be willing to, if you do this again, give me first dibs on the next complete machine you give away? Thanks for the generosity to the list, torquil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison" To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Thinning the heard > Thanks everyone. > > The two Pros are claimed. > > In the future there may be other hardware but, not alot. > I'm not getting out it's more a selection process as I > with to run more of the peices and that takes space. > > Allison > > From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Mar 7 21:18:36 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? Message-ID: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> Pictures, please... Megan From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Mar 7 21:40:06 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Defeating SPAM (Was ADV: International Trade) References: <3C880C5A.7080007@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3C883296.4BF57838@idirect.com> >James B. DiGriz wrote: > No, I don't spam, of course not. There are people dumb enough of course > not to know yet that spamming is moronic and counterproductive as a > business practice, and there will be until everyone has been on the net > for some time, and there are also people who think it's a clever way to > annoy people. Jerome Fine replies: I will shortly be shifting to my "newer" system and changing ISP at the same time, so a change of e-mail address is necessary. My new address will be (just in case anyone is interested). The four characters preceding the 'at' will be chosen at random and changed whenever I become annoyed enough with the volume of spam. While any e-mail address I use in the future will be active and can be replied to at the time, if anyone in the future wants to reply or contact me after the four characters preceding the 'at' have been retired, they can replace them with the four digits of the current year. I have not finalized this as yet, so if anyone can see a flaw in this arrangement, please advise. I calculated the number of different combinations of four random alphanumeric characters at over a million (36 ** 4). In case anyone is wondering, I will be using Windows 98 second edition with Netscape V4.78 and with multiple user ids activated. While it took a couple of days to figure out, I will have ONLY ONE set of mail files and one set of newsgroup files. I will still need a different set of settings files for each user id - I have not figured that part out as yet - it is probably either impossible or not worth the extra effort. Just an observation. If most people adopted a similar method, only a tiny fraction of spam would ever get delivered to those individuals. I realize that it will be a bit inconvenient when I switch e-mail addresses, but the default semi-permanent e-mail address will hopefully take care of that. Based on all the comments I have seen about spam, I hope that the above will be of interest. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From at258 at osfn.org Thu Mar 7 21:43:38 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C881B53.458DD890@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: There are some pictures of our Ardent on the museum.com site. Stardent was the successor name It's a nice looking Unix box. On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Robin Lake wrote: > > > > So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare > > boards. Several monitors. > > > > Rob Lake > > lake@cwru.edu > > What is/was it? > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jss at subatomix.com Thu Mar 7 21:51:09 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <015101c1c64b$a3e9f430$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <20020307214016.J39981-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > I think it is very nice of you to give away machines like this. I was > just wondering if you'd be willing to, if you do this again, give me > first dibs on the next complete machine you give away? I cannot speak for Allison, but if I the above message were directed to me, I would ask you politely to stop being greedy and to check your email more often. Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive first-dibbing. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 7 22:23:49 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard References: <20020307214016.J39981-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001101c1c659$0bdce720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have to agree with this FCFS policy. I've given away a few things, mostly lighter-weight stuff than complete machines, for sure, but nevertheless got "yelled" at because I had comitted to give someone something on that basis by somoeone who didn't feel it necessary to check his email over the weekend. My email is updated every few hours when I'm not around and certainly more often when I am. Sometimes I choose not to get into it, but if I miss something, it's on me, and not the sender. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Thinning the heard > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > > > I think it is very nice of you to give away machines like this. I was > > just wondering if you'd be willing to, if you do this again, give me > > first dibs on the next complete machine you give away? > > I cannot speak for Allison, but if I the above message were directed to > me, I would ask you politely to stop being greedy and to check your email > more often. > > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > first-dibbing. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Mar 7 22:47:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Defeating SPAM (Was ADV: International Trade) In-Reply-To: <3C883296.4BF57838@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote: > Just an observation. If most people adopted a similar method, only a > tiny fraction of spam would ever get delivered to those individuals. > I realize that it will be a bit inconvenient when I switch e-mail > addresses, but the default semi-permanent e-mail address will > hopefully take care of that. Or you could chase those spammers around with a sharp stick. That has got to be my next favorite hobby after classic computers :) Seriously though, emailing a spammer's admin(s) or their upstream provider often takes care of the problem. -Toth From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Mar 7 23:22:14 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <001101c1c659$0bdce720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I can't say that I completely agree that FCFS is always fair. Some of us live in front of our computers, and run mail checking every 3 minutes. Some people have jobs that don't permit them to check their email more often, such as the guy at the Circle-K, people who are on the road a lot during the day, etc. And there's the whole issue of mailserver latency, something not all of us have control over. It seems to take my messages over an hour before I see them, whereas on a Yahoo! message board I use, they show up in 5 or 6 minutes. I would think that a lottery system would be more fair. Computer generate a number, give anyone that's interested 48 hours to reply with a number, and whomever gets closest with going over wins. Any other equally arbitrary rule would work as well. An enterprising individual could even set up a web page to help manage this. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 23:24 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Thinning the heard > > > I have to agree with this FCFS policy. I've given away a few > things, mostly > lighter-weight stuff than complete machines, for sure, but > nevertheless got > "yelled" at because I had comitted to give someone something on > that basis by > somoeone who didn't feel it necessary to check his email over the weekend. > > My email is updated every few hours when I'm not around and certainly more > often when I am. Sometimes I choose not to get into it, but if I miss > something, it's on me, and not the sender. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: Thinning the heard > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > > > > > I think it is very nice of you to give away machines like this. I was > > > just wondering if you'd be willing to, if you do this again, give me > > > first dibs on the next complete machine you give away? > > > > I cannot speak for Allison, but if I the above message were directed to > > me, I would ask you politely to stop being greedy and to check > your email > > more often. > > > > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > > and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > > first-dibbing. > > > > -- > > Jeffrey S. Sharp > > jss@subatomix.com > > > > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Mar 7 23:53:07 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines References: Message-ID: <3C8851C3.EC13FA66@tiac.net> Stardent was not a follow-on from Ardent. Stardent made a graphics supercomputer with a fancy very wide data path between the CPU and the graphics engine. Something like 512 bits wide... My wife worked there. Stardent attempted to generate a market for a product that did not already exist. Some were sold for scientific visualization and other high-end uses. Quite a unique machine really...not your average workstation at all. "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > There are some pictures of our Ardent on the museum.com site. Stardent > was the successor name It's a nice looking Unix box. > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Robin Lake wrote: > > > > > > So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare > > > boards. Several monitors. > > > > > > Rob Lake > > > lake@cwru.edu > > > > What is/was it? > > -- > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From jss at subatomix.com Fri Mar 8 00:37:21 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020308002457.P40749-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > I was just wondering if you'd be willing to ... give me first dibs on > the next complete machine you give away? I responded: > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > and sufficient we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > first-dibbing. On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > I can't say that I completely agree,,, Some people have jobs that don't > permit them to check their email more often, There are also the best argument and lottery systems. Those options are out there and have been used before. Mr. MacCorkle's request, I dare say, is objectionable and would be unfair. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Mar 8 00:45:58 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: References: <001101c1c659$0bdce720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020308174244.027ec590@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 12:22 AM 8/03/2002 -0500, John Chris Wren wrote: > I can't say that I completely agree that FCFS is always > fair. Some of us >live in front of our computers, and run mail checking every 3 minutes. Some >people have jobs that don't permit them to check their email more often, >such as the guy at the Circle-K, people who are on the road a lot during the >day, etc. And there's the whole issue of mailserver latency, something not >all of us have control over. It seems to take my messages over an hour >before I see them, whereas on a Yahoo! message board I use, they show up in >5 or 6 minutes. Don't forget, some of us live in a somewhat different time zone. For example, at the moment I'm at +1100 and John seems to be at -0500 so even if I sit in front of my computer for all the daylight hours here I'll still miss things. For example, Allison's post (and the follow up saying the Pro's had gone) were in the batch I read after getting home from work Friday evening - not that I mind, I do have a couple of Pro380s sitting in a cupboard.... Still I think we should stick with FCFS until I miss out on that really desirable Pascal MicroEngine that someone offers (I'd even pay shipping to Australia for one of them - well probably :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jss at subatomix.com Fri Mar 8 00:49:15 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C8851C3.EC13FA66@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20020308003918.Y40749-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Stardent was not a follow-on from Ardent. > > Stardent made a graphics supercomputer with a fancy very wide data path > between the CPU and the graphics engine. Something like 512 bits > wide... > > My wife worked there. Stardent attempted to generate a market for a > product that did not already exist. Some were sold for scientific > visualization and other high-end uses. Quite a unique machine > really...not your average workstation at all. Cool. I have one which I got from the University of Texas at Austin last summer. I believe that I owe it to a list member who sent me some cool hardware in exhange for it. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 8 01:09:26 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Wanted: DECNA Message-ID: <200203080709.g2879Qx22841@narnia.int.dittman.net> If anyone has a DECNA they'd like to sell or trade, please let me know. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri Mar 8 01:21:10 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c1c671$d247a7c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > >From: "LEESON, Chris" > > > > > >The BBC's 1986 Domesday Project (a time capsule containing > sound, images, > > >video and data defining life in Britain) is now unreadable. > The data was > > >stored on 12-inch video discs that were only readable by the > BBC Micro, of > > >which only a handful still exist. The time capsule contains > "250,000 place > > It's pretty silly when folks write articles like this and don't bother to > do even the minimum of research, which would have revealed that there are > plenty of BBC Micros still in existence. If the writer is referring to > the video disc player (which would make more sense) then I can believe > that there may only be a "handful" of complete systems left in existence, > but this begs the question of why, inspite of them, this makes the > videodiscs "unreadable". > I suspect the practicality is that, although technically feasable to convert to a DVD, _copyright_ issues prevent any commercial project from doing so (starting with the arm and a leg than ordnance survey would charge for the map data, and following with the impossibility of contacting all the other copyright holders) and the amount of work required (and legal minefield) being too much for a hobby project. Andy From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 01:26:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <20020307214016.J39981-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > first-dibbing. Actually, I bet it's more like: friends first, then back-scratchers, then local folk, then finally out on the list. As it should be. No dibbing. Unless Sridhar gives up on that 270. Then it's mine. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 8 01:50:21 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard References: Message-ID: <001301c1c675$e62d8260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So, where does it say that life, or, for that matter, anything else is, or has to be, fair? Pretty soon someone will be saying that it's unfair that he can't have computer xyz because his wife won't let him. It's not our fault he wants to have a wife. Life is the product of the decisons that shape it. Deal with it! (Of course, there's really very little classic hardware that I want, and of what I have I'd probably prefer to have less.) Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 12:26 AM Subject: Re: Thinning the heard > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > > and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > > first-dibbing. > > Actually, I bet it's more like: friends first, then back-scratchers, > then local folk, then finally out on the list. As it should be. > No dibbing. Unless Sridhar gives up on that 270. Then it's mine. > > Doc > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 8 01:56:11 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the herd References: Message-ID: <001701c1c676$b70ce240$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This culling is something I occasionally go through, normally with the aid of the dumpster. One thing I'm finding really useful is Apple IIe/][/][+ power supplies. This leaves me with the occasional main board, case, etc. If anyone wants such things, keeping in mind that I'm not an Apple conoiseur, and don't want to have to learn about the various options, etc, I'd be happy to ship them for cost. I seldom buy such things unless they're under $10, and you can guess that I wouldn't buy one for more than I'm willing to pay for the PSU. Normally, there are few or no optional boards. Postage is all it'll cost you, but I don't want to invest in someone else's stuff. I'll package & ship, but only if you spring for the postage up front. Dick From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 02:05:53 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > > and sufficient; we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > > first-dibbing. > > Actually, I bet it's more like: friends first, then back-scratchers, > then local folk, then finally out on the list. As it should be. > No dibbing. Unless Sridhar gives up on that 270. Then it's mine. LOL. You got it, Doc. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 02:08:42 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:11 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness Message-ID: Hi people. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u (nowhere near on-topic but I figure people here might know better what causes this kind of problem). If I provide it with a sync-on-green signal to its BNC connectors (It has five, I connect three), the monitor syncs up just fine, but all the areas that are black show up with a green cast. The white areas show up just fine. I haven't looked at an image with color yet, but I would guess that all the colors would probably be shifted towards the green. Any ideas? Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 02:57:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: Thanks, Bill! Just got home with my brand-spanking-old MVII and set about playing with it. It's indecently clean inside, cables all in good shape, fans all free and clean, cards well seated. I even managed to get them all back in properly, in order, and the cables connected right. So let me see if I got this right, as this is the first working QBus system I've gotten: Boards, in order: M7606-AF MV-II CPU (KA630-A) w/1M RAM & serial console line M7608-BP 4M RAM card for KA630 M7609-AH 8M parity RAM " " M7504 DEQNA ethernet M7546 TQK50 tape controller M9047 Grant card M8053 DMV11 Serial controller M3104 DHV11 8-port async serial DMA mux 2x M3107 DHQ11 " " " " " Storage: 2x RD53-A 70M Micropolis 1325 RD54 190M Maxtor XT-2190 TK50 95M CompacTape drive This means I would, if I had the distribution hardware for the DHQ11s, have 25 serial interfaces? (plus console) What exactly is the DMV11? "Synchronous communications controller" sounds like it requires a DMV11 on the other end as well. Everything VMS I've looked at says the DEQNA is unsupported in VMS >v5.2. Is that unsupported as in "don't call DEC/Compaq/HP", or unsupported as in "it don't work"? Am I stuck with NetBSD then? Does anyone know if NBSD will mop-boot over the DEQNA? I don't have VMS older than 6.2. Anybody have 2 breakout boxes for the M3107, and no M3107? We could equalize.... For that matter, if anybody needs the card, I'll just share. Oh yeah. It boots. VMS 5.2, but it's looking for the rest of a cluster, and apparently a lot of its filespace was remote. Bummer. Other than that, and the fact that I can't get it upstairs, it's a cool "little" box. You know you're over the edge when the lack of ethernet access in your garage is a problem. Doc From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 8 03:08:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <20020308002457.P40749-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: Jeez, folks. The ClassicCmp list is NOT the only place to find old computers. Have a little initiative and creativity. http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > > > I was just wondering if you'd be willing to ... give me first dibs on > > the next complete machine you give away? > > I responded: > > > Our traditional methods (usually FCFS) for redistributing goods are fair > > and sufficient we ought not to get into the practice of preemptive > > first-dibbing. > > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > I can't say that I completely agree,,, Some people have jobs that don't > > permit them to check their email more often, > > There are also the best argument and lottery systems. Those options are > out there and have been used before. Mr. MacCorkle's request, I dare say, > is objectionable and would be unfair. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 8 03:21:46 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Storage: >2x RD53-A 70M Micropolis 1325 If there is anything you want on these, back them up. They die with alarming frequency. >Other than that, and the fact that I can't get it upstairs, it's a cool >"little" box. Nonsense, just pull everything out of the chassis, striping it as far down as possible, then lug the chassis and the parts upstairs seperatly. That's how I got the BA123 I'm using for my PDP-11/73 up here. > You know you're over the edge when the lack of ethernet access in your >garage is a problem. Just go outside the house to run it :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net Fri Mar 8 03:22:34 2002 From: jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net (jismay@gkar.unixboxen.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <20020308012232.A13333@unixboxen.net> I was going through the archives on www.techtales.com, and I came across this one: Punch Card Problems This one really belongs to my dad. Many years ago, he was using a PDP 8 with 8k of core for generating geological maps. All the programmes and data were entered via punch card or paper tape. On one run, it just wouldn't work. All the cards were manually checked, a very labour and time intensive process. Still nothing worked. Eventually, the whole run was repunched card by card and in the end it did work. Some detective work revealed the source of the errors. The dye used in the blue punch cards was slightly hygroscopic. The absorbed water made all the blue cards slightly longer than the rest, just long enough to throw off the reader. The solution: replace all the blue cards....... Thanks to: Araneas -- Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020308/1cae1a52/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 8 03:30:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <20020308162932.GA5532851@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > how about this: whoever's giving away the equipment can do it in whatever way > they damn well please? it's their stuff, after all... sheesh. Finally, some sense! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 03:48:06 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness In-Reply-To: <3C888BFF.5B0B7E84@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Hi people. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u (nowhere near on-topic > > but I figure people here might know better what causes this kind of > > problem). If I provide it with a sync-on-green signal to its BNC > > connectors (It has five, I connect three), the monitor syncs up just fine, > > but all the areas that are black show up with a green cast. The white > > areas show up just fine. I haven't looked at an image with color yet, but > > I would guess that all the colors would probably be shifted towards the > > green. Any ideas? > > Sounds like your minitor needs a minor tweaking of the green screen > control. What is best is a stairstep input, and you can set your > screens and channel gains for an acceptable picture, i.e. greys, with no > hint of color. As the CRT ages, these will wander a bit. I forgot to mention that it displays fine with separate sync on the BNC inputs, and separate sync on the HDE15 input. I have yet to test whether Sync-on-green works on the HDE-15. Does that change your advice at all? Peace... Sridhar From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Mar 8 04:01:35 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness References: Message-ID: <3C888BFF.5B0B7E84@ccp.com> Julius Sridhar wrote: > > Hi people. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u (nowhere near on-topic > but I figure people here might know better what causes this kind of > problem). If I provide it with a sync-on-green signal to its BNC > connectors (It has five, I connect three), the monitor syncs up just fine, > but all the areas that are black show up with a green cast. The white > areas show up just fine. I haven't looked at an image with color yet, but > I would guess that all the colors would probably be shifted towards the > green. Any ideas? > > Peace... Sridhar Sounds like your minitor needs a minor tweaking of the green screen control. What is best is a stairstep input, and you can set your screens and channel gains for an acceptable picture, i.e. greys, with no hint of color. As the CRT ages, these will wander a bit. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 04:07:37 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Mitsubishi monitor problem. Message-ID: Never mind. The Clamp pulse setting was in the wrong position. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Mar 8 04:52:51 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: MicroVAX-II questions (Doc Shipley) References: Message-ID: <15496.38915.346191.626043@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 8, Doc Shipley wrote: > Just got home with my brand-spanking-old MVII and set about playing > with it. It's indecently clean inside, cables all in good shape, fans > all free and clean, cards well seated. Sounds like a girl I once knew. > I even managed to get them all back in properly, in order, and the > cables connected right. This too. > This means I would, if I had the distribution hardware for the DHQ11s, > have 25 serial interfaces? (plus console) What exactly is the DMV11? > "Synchronous communications controller" sounds like it requires a DMV11 > on the other end as well. It's a sync serial interface...you'd connect it to a CSU/DSU and a leased line, or something similar. > Everything VMS I've looked at says the DEQNA is unsupported in VMS > >v5.2. Is that unsupported as in "don't call DEC/Compaq/HP", or > unsupported as in "it don't work"? Am I stuck with NetBSD then? Does > anyone know if NBSD will mop-boot over the DEQNA? I don't have VMS > older than 6.2. DELQAs are fairly easy to come by. If you want one and can't find one immediately, email me. > Anybody have 2 breakout boxes for the M3107, and no M3107? We could > equalize.... For that matter, if anybody needs the card, I'll just > share. I might have one of these, I will check. Email me if you don't hear back about this by the end of the weekend. > You know you're over the edge when the lack of ethernet access in your > garage is a problem. Nah...that's just a *start*. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 8 06:16:29 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 04:48:06AM -0500 References: <3C888BFF.5B0B7E84@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020308131629.A28552@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 04:48:06AM -0500, Julius Sridhar wrote: > I forgot to mention that it displays fine with separate sync on the BNC > inputs, and separate sync on the HDE15 input. I have yet to test whether > Sync-on-green works on the HDE-15. Does that change your advice at all? It may be a similar problem like my CTX has. The manual says it can do SOG. But when I first connected a SOG signal, nothing. I had to build a sync separator to get things going. Later I discovered that SOG works, but only with a high green level all over the screen. (e.g. white ground and black characters) My fist attempt was with the boot prompt of a HP Apollo 433t => black ground and white characters => no high green level => no sync. So this is the guilty of a poor designed sync separator in the monitor. Blame the monitor manufacturer. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 8 06:43:07 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:21:46AM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20020308134307.B28552@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:21:46AM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Nonsense, just pull everything out of the chassis, striping it as far down > as possible, then lug the chassis and the parts upstairs seperatly. Especially the PSU. It is easy to remove and weights a lot. Take this opportunity to remove the dust puppys. Once I powered an old MVII on without doing this. The fan in the PSU was near to death and suddenly there came smoke out of the machine. Fortunately it was only smoke from the dust, not the magic smoke. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 06:52:20 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Some detective work revealed the source of the errors. > The dye used in the blue punch cards was slightly hygroscopic. > The absorbed water made all the blue cards slightly longer than > the rest, just long enough to throw off the reader. > Years ago, in the book "Steal this Book", Abbie Hoffman suggested that anytime you end up with a punch card, in order to be a troublemaker, soak the card in some solution that, once the card is dried, has cause it to shrink uniformly so that it will jam the reader. As you can see, he wasn't much of a "fan" of "the system". -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 06:54:23 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I suspect the practicality is that, although technically feasable to convert > to a DVD, _copyright_ issues prevent any commercial project from > doing so (starting with the arm and a leg than ordnance survey would charge > for the map data, and following with the impossibility of contacting all the > other copyright holders) and the amount of work required (and legal > minefield) being too much for a hobby project. Has "migrating a copyrighted work from an older decaying medium to a newer stable medium" had a court test already? -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 06:55:26 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Stardent was not a follow-on from Ardent. > > > > Stardent made a graphics supercomputer with a fancy very wide data path > > between the CPU and the graphics engine. Something like 512 bits > > wide... > > > > My wife worked there. Stardent attempted to generate a market for a > > product that did not already exist. Some were sold for scientific > > visualization and other high-end uses. Quite a unique machine > > really...not your average workstation at all. > > Cool. I have one which I got from the University of Texas at Austin last > summer. I believe that I owe it to a list member who sent me some cool > hardware in exhange for it. I may be confusing it with another firm, but I think Bill Poduska founded Stardent after leaving Apollo... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 07:06:50 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > The item referred to above is as follows: > > "In 1999, USC neurobiologist Joseph Miller asked NASA to check some old data > the Viking probes had sent back from Mars in the mid-1970s. Miller wanted to > find out whether certain information on gas released by Martian soil, which > at the time had been dismissed as meaningless "chemical activity," was > actually evidence of microbial life. NASA found the tapes he requested, but > they didn't find any way to read them. It turns out that the data, despite > being only about 25 years old, was in a format NASA had long since forgotten > about. Or, as Miller puts it, "The programmers who knew it had died." What this really meant was that some manager at NASA who was in the position of responsibility for these tapes didn't have the staff or budget to deal with them. A purely political issue, and not a technical one at all. I used be one of NASA's biggest supporters, and my dream was to work there some day. Year by year, my opinion of them has decayed until we get to how they dealt with the Delta Clipper. I've read the reports, and I'm convinced they deliberately crashed it because it was in comptetition for funds for their pet project, the venturestar (X-33). Which is now dead because they can't figure out how to make hydrogen tanks for the linear aerospike engine (very cool technology from Project Sun in the 1950s) that won't leak... -dq p.s. Revive the Delta Clipper! From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Mar 8 07:21:48 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C8851C3.EC13FA66@tiac.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020308081904.0216fce8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Are you sure about that? I thought Stardent came from a merger between Ardent and Stellar back in 1989. -- Tony At 12:53 AM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Stardent was not a follow-on from Ardent. > >Stardent made a graphics supercomputer with a fancy very wide data path >between >the CPU and the graphics engine. Something like 512 bits wide... > >My wife worked there. Stardent attempted to generate a market for a product >that did not already exist. Some were sold for scientific visualization and >other high-end uses. Quite a unique machine really...not your average >workstation at all. > >"Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > There are some pictures of our Ardent on the museum.com site. Stardent > > was the successor name It's a nice looking Unix box. > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > Robin Lake wrote: > > > > > > > > So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare > > > > boards. Several monitors. > > > > > > > > Rob Lake > > > > lake@cwru.edu > > > > > > What is/was it? > > > -- > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 8 07:27:19 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <001001c1c6a4$fe34e4a0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Hi, This is an unreasonable request. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Torquil MacCorkle III To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Thinning the heard >Hi, > I think it is very nice of you to give away machines like this. I was >just wondering if you'd be willing to, if you do this again, give me first >dibs on the next complete machine you give away? > Thanks for the generosity to the list, > torquil >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Allison" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:12 AM >Subject: Thinning the heard > > >> Thanks everyone. >> >> The two Pros are claimed. >> >> In the future there may be other hardware but, not alot. >> I'm not getting out it's more a selection process as I >> with to run more of the peices and that takes space. >> >> Allison >> >> > > From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Mar 8 07:29:39 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II, Symbolics 3620 documentation, software sought Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020308082230.0209e3f0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Does anyone have documentation or software for the Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II or Symbolics 3620 that they'd be willing to share? I'd like to start playing with some of my toys. Thanks! -- Tony From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 8 07:37:43 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <002101c1c6a6$73ea72e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> An aside to all this, and hopefully the last words. The equipment was mine to dispose of. How, is my choice. To put it bluntly, if there were no response, I'd have called a few people on last resort and if no interest I'd have then landfilled them. Often with my time being very limited I will impose those conditions that will least impact my time. Usually no outside the US 48 states as packing, paperwork and shipping requires *time* even if minimal effort. I am not a business with a shipping department. Personally I'd rather see them used or at least recycled. However, I dont have unlimited space and If I can't use it or don't use it then maybe it's time to remove it. I was glad that there were at least three people that could and would pick them up. Allison From schadow at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 8 07:45:48 2002 From: schadow at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Someone can make a picture of a KDA50 cab kit please? Message-ID: <200203081345.g28Djmb14340@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, would somebody here be so kind an give me a digital image of a KDA50 cab kit? A part number would also be nice, but the picture would be better. Doesn't need to be very good quality, just to roughly see how it looks. Thanks, -Gunther PS: even a detailled description would be helpful. Thanks!! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 07:47:49 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Beehive terminals CPU? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308084749.007f22f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:05 PM 3/7/02 +0000, tony wrote: >> > >FWIW, my older Beehive terminal has an 8008 in it, That's probably what I was thinking of. I thought I remembered someone posting something about it using one of the old CPUs. Thanks, Joe From at258 at osfn.org Fri Mar 8 07:51:19 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C8851C3.EC13FA66@tiac.net> Message-ID: It was my understanding that Stardent was the result of a merger between Ardebnt (nee Dana) and Stellar. On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > Stardent was not a follow-on from Ardent. > > Stardent made a graphics supercomputer with a fancy very wide data path between > the CPU and the graphics engine. Something like 512 bits wide... > > My wife worked there. Stardent attempted to generate a market for a product > that did not already exist. Some were sold for scientific visualization and > other high-end uses. Quite a unique machine really...not your average > workstation at all. > > "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > There are some pictures of our Ardent on the museum.com site. Stardent > > was the successor name It's a nice looking Unix box. > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > > Robin Lake wrote: > > > > > > > > So, is anyone interested in a couple of Stardent TITANs? LOTS of spare > > > > boards. Several monitors. > > > > > > > > Rob Lake > > > > lake@cwru.edu > > > > > > What is/was it? > > > -- > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 07:56:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Data I/O Unisite programmer Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308085650.00821a00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone familar with these? I don't don't know much about them other than that the surplus dealers all think they're worth a fortune. Anyway I "rescued" one out of a scrap pile. First, is it worth trying to repair and use? I already have a Data I/O model 29. Second, it's missing the two disk drives but otherwise it seems to be in decent condition. Can these use standard 3.5" floppy drives? I THINK these have their complete operating system on disk. Can anyone confirm that? Does anyone have the SW or manuals for it? Joe From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Mar 8 08:11:05 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Someone can make a picture of a KDA50 cab kit please? References: <200203081345.g28Djmb14340@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C88C677.B1063751@arrl.net> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Hi, > > would somebody here be so kind an give me a digital image of a > KDA50 cab kit? A part number would also be nice, but the picture > would be better. Doesn't need to be very good quality, just to > roughly see how it looks. > > Thanks, > -Gunther > > PS: even a detailled description would be helpful. Thanks!! You didn't specify which cabinet you have. I may have a picture of the BA213 kit I sold last year. I'll can check after work, if this is the one you need. -nick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 08:17:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II, Symbolics 3620 documentation, software sought In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020308082230.0209e3f0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308091700.007f9e30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have documentation or software for the Intel iPSC/1, What's an iPSC? It sounds like an intel device but I haven't seen that designation before. Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 08:17:19 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > It was my understanding that Stardent was the result of a > merger between Ardebnt (nee Dana) and Stellar. This was correct; Poduska was also a founder of Stellar; he wrote the business plans for Prime, Apollo, Stellar, and Stardent. He has always limited himself to a 20-page plan, which many credit as one element of his success. -dq From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Mar 8 08:39:15 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm gonna pick it up today. Do you think I'll get more than $40 per 'washing machine'? That's what they want for it... I hate to do it, but if no one is interested, I'm gonna just scrap the controller for whatever parts I can get out of it. However, I won't do that for a few days if you're interested. -- Pat On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > > I think you mean 3480. I might be interested, and even if I turn out not > to be, you should pick it up and sell it to a mainframe surplus joint for > $$$. > > Peace... Sridhar > From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Mar 8 08:40:43 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021B83@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric J. Korpela [mailto:korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu] > Sent: 07 March 2002 18:24 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Seen on RISKS-L > > >The BBC's 1986 Domesday Project (a time capsule containing > sound, images, > >video and data defining life in Britain) is now unreadable. > The data was > >stored on 12-inch video discs that were only readable by the > BBC Micro, of > >which only a handful still exist. The time capsule contains What horse crap (as we all know)! Typical bloody uk journalists who can't be arsed to research a story properly. If they want to see if it's *really* still unreadable give the disks to me and I'll use them in my own Domesday machine, based on one of those *wow*r@re* BBC Micros. Or do they mean the discs themselves aren't readable anymore, regardless of whether you've got a Domesday machine or not? a From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 08:44:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Storage: > >2x RD53-A 70M Micropolis 1325 > > If there is anything you want on these, back them up. They die with > alarming frequency. I have a bunch of them. But I also heard one of the shops here has a pile of Maxtors (yes, Jonathan, if they do I'll share) Most likely scenario is netbooting and using the RD54 for swap. > >Other than that, and the fact that I can't get it upstairs, it's a cool > >"little" box. > > Nonsense, just pull everything out of the chassis, striping it as far down > as possible, then lug the chassis and the parts upstairs seperatly. That's > how I got the BA123 I'm using for my PDP-11/73 up here. "it was a joke, son..." You obviously haven't seen my upstairs office. I _will_ have to rotate something out. Doc From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Mar 8 08:45:54 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021B84@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] > Sent: 07 March 2002 21:17 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Seen on RISKS-L > > You'd think the actual problem must be that the discs are > becoming unreadable, or that kind of LD player is hard to find > or maintain, or that there was some custom controller that's It was an Acorn SCSI controller inside the Twin-CPU BBC Master that connected to the LV-ROM transport, and even the transport was a bog-standard Philips Laserdisc player; granted with some extra gubbins on the bottom for SCSI access to the transport. Greenweld electronics (www.greenweld.co.uk) are still selling the Philips Laserdisc player in question for ukp30. Oh, and up until recently the London Science Museum had a working Domesday setup.... a www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk; *wow*r@re Domesday machine home! From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Fri Mar 8 08:48:41 2002 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021B85@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: 07 March 2002 15:57 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Seen on RISKS-L > > If someone actually knows how the data is encoded then it > doesn't sound > very "unreadable" to me. Considering that all the people who designed the project are still around I'd agree with that. The text you replied to was from Andy Finney's website, and Andy Finney was one of the Domesday project members..... a From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 08:49:31 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard References: <20020308002457.P40749-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C88CF7B.A1EDFBD2@jetnet.ab.ca> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > I can't say that I completely agree,,, Some people have jobs that don't > > permit them to check their email more often, > > There are also the best argument and lottery systems. Those options are > out there and have been used before. Mr. MacCorkle's request, I dare say, > is objectionable and would be unfair. I think the best idea is to put a closing date on lists of items, this way both the seller and buyer have a idea of the time factor and slower mails can catch up. Anyhow the seller not the buyer has the final say in who gets the product. With some of the more valueable old equiment it is important that it goes to a good home not the first bidder. PS. Does anybody know of a source of datasheets (PDF) online for the the really old chips like RTL,DTL,74Hxx,74Lxx? You still can find the chips but not the data. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From allain at panix.com Fri Mar 8 09:01:37 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L References: Message-ID: <01df01c1c6b2$25bff520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> In any sufficiently large organization there will be lost files, ones that are physically present but "lost" due to the owner keeping important contextual information with him and either leaving or dying. These lost files could be either paper or digital; doesn't matter much. sufficiently large = 15+ people sufficiently old = 10+ years - - - > The thing that might have been the seed for > all of this "NASA lost data" mythology I remember hearing that evidence of the polar ozone hole had been faithfully recorded for years, and that only by using graphics to view the collected data did it become obvious that it had been happening all along. There must be other stories. NASA is both large And old. John A. From alan.pearson at cramer.com Fri Mar 8 09:05:59 2002 From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Metro: Time runs out for Domesday discs Message-ID: >stored on 12-inch video discs that were only readable by the BBC Micro, of >which only a handful still exist. Got to challenge that, unless they're referring to the "handful" I've got sitting in the Toy Barn. And I doubt I'm the only one in the UK with several working Beebs :-) Al. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 09:06:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <15496.38915.346191.626043@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Sounds like a girl I once knew. Dave, _everything_ sounds like a girl you once knew. > > "Synchronous communications controller" sounds like it requires a DMV11 > > on the other end as well. > > It's a sync serial interface...you'd connect it to a CSU/DSU and a > leased line, or something similar. Ah. IOW, "useless in my world." Anybody need one? > DELQAs are fairly easy to come by. If you want one and can't find > one immediately, email me. So you're saying unsupported means "It don't work"? Corollary question #1: Are NetBSD and (ahem) Linux/vax the only unices that run on this critter? Ultrix is unobtainium, therefore doesn't count. Corollary question #2: If I replace the DEQNA, is VMS 6.2 or OpenVMS 7.2 the better choice for this machine. Strictly fooling around, no real production usage. > > Anybody have 2 breakout boxes for the M3107, and no M3107? We could > > equalize.... For that matter, if anybody needs the card, I'll just > > share. > > I might have one of these, I will check. Email me if you don't hear > back about this by the end of the weekend. No big thing. I _am_ thinking about starting a BBS, but I was gonna use the RS/6000 340 for that. ;^) Actually, I'm more likely to remove all the extra serial adapters and see if anyone needs them, or just ignore 'em in place. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 09:09:01 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021B83@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <3C88D40D.C9A7A338@jetnet.ab.ca> Adrian Graham wrote: > What horse crap (as we all know)! Typical bloody uk journalists who can't be > arsed to research a story properly. If they want to see if it's *really* > still unreadable give the disks to me and I'll use them in my own Domesday > machine, based on one of those *wow*r@re* BBC Micros. > > Or do they mean the discs themselves aren't readable anymore, regardless of > whether you've got a Domesday machine or not? Stone tablets still keep better. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 09:12:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: Message-ID: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > "it was a joke, son..." You obviously haven't seen my upstairs > office. I _will_ have to rotate something out. > > Doc I can see it now ** Wanted "House with a two computer garage and separate living area on the side' -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 09:18:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Err, Jerome's offlist email just reminded me that I left out 2 major points. First, I totally spaced the M7555 RQDX3 controller. Yes, there is one. It fell through the 2:30am email crack. Second, I'd kind of like to have an RX50 diskette drive for the thing, just because. I suppose I'd need cables too. Doc From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 09:21:08 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6CB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > In any sufficiently large organization there will be lost files, > ones that are physically present but "lost" due to the owner > keeping important contextual information with him and either > leaving or dying. These lost files could be either paper or > digital; doesn't matter much. > sufficiently large = 15+ people > sufficiently old = 10+ years yes, this is true for the architecture firm I work for. Some earliest work didn't get archived. A *very* few archive disks (128MB and 230MB M-O) have developed problems that cause the loss of one or two files. But given the way they organize their CAD here, the floor plan or detail info they need is often contained in another drawing. We did some early visualization work on the Mac using Gimeor's Architreon, which is a dead product that never made it to another platform. However, I have been opening the animations and taking snapshots, frame-by-frame, so I can bring those animations over to the PC and show them there. It's a lot of work, admittedly... -dq From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 8 09:41:45 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: Depends on the type of stone ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 9:09 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Seen on RISKS-L Adrian Graham wrote: > What horse crap (as we all know)! Typical bloody uk journalists who can't be > arsed to research a story properly. If they want to see if it's *really* > still unreadable give the disks to me and I'll use them in my own Domesday > machine, based on one of those *wow*r@re* BBC Micros. > > Or do they mean the discs themselves aren't readable anymore, regardless of > whether you've got a Domesday machine or not? Stone tablets still keep better. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Mar 8 09:44:48 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness References: Message-ID: <3C88DC70.E0DA5735@ccp.com> Julius Sridhar wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > > Hi people. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u (nowhere near on-topic > > > but I figure people here might know better what causes this kind of > > > problem). If I provide it with a sync-on-green signal to its BNC > > > connectors (It has five, I connect three), the monitor syncs up just fine, > > > but all the areas that are black show up with a green cast. The white > > > areas show up just fine. I haven't looked at an image with color yet, but > > > I would guess that all the colors would probably be shifted towards the > > > green. Any ideas? > > > > Sounds like your minitor needs a minor tweaking of the green screen > > control. What is best is a stairstep input, and you can set your > > screens and channel gains for an acceptable picture, i.e. greys, with no > > hint of color. As the CRT ages, these will wander a bit. > > I forgot to mention that it displays fine with separate sync on the BNC > inputs, and separate sync on the HDE15 input. I have yet to test whether > Sync-on-green works on the HDE-15. Does that change your advice at all? > > Peace... Sridhar Olkay, it can. It sonds like the video is clamping on the sync tip, and that in turn raises the pedestal (zero level) causing the grenish tinge. Is there a way to set the monitor up for SOG? Gary HIldebrand St. Joseph, MO From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Mar 8 09:58:23 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:06:04AM -0600 References: <15496.38915.346191.626043@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020308165823.A29688@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 09:06:04AM -0600, Doc wrote: > Corollary question #1: Are NetBSD and (ahem) Linux/vax the only > unices that run on this critter? Ultrix is unobtainium, therefore > doesn't count. Linux/VAX runs on QBus machines? Dos it at last run? OpenBSD has "stolen" a lot of the NetBSD VAX stuff and may run on a MVII. I would sugest to go to http://www.tuhs.org/ and get some old 4.3BSD-Tahoe stuff. This is straight, plain, good, old BSD UNIX. This will run fine on a MVII. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Mar 8 09:59:49 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <20020306.165439.-226709.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020308155949.GA5528317@uiuc.edu> jeff.kaneko@juno.com said: > > > 2. ftp & http access to machines I have attached to the network > is *blocked* ( can get in via TELNET; whoop, whoop). If you need to get at your machines from outside, use SSH. It's secure which is good for remote access anyway, plus you can do secure file transfer with it (scp)... and your cable company is not too likely to have any idea what it is so they won't block it ;) > > 3. Their NNTP (net news) service sucks > > 4. They're going to raise my rates *again*. > > 5. The speed is no where nearly as fast as it used to be. > > I'd go DSL but SBC doesn't have DSL in my neighborhood. > > > Damn. > > > Jeff > > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:36:41 -0600 Christopher Smith > writes: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > > > > > I was just switched from @Home to my local cable company's > > (insight > > > communications) network, and it's actual been more stable and > > > reliable then it > > > was before. @Home kind of sucked, but I've been happy with > > > insight's service, > > > at least so far -- it's been about a month... > > > > Ok, so how much does Insight cost? Will they panic if I tell them I > > don't have windows, and no, it's not a Macintosh either? ;) > > > > Do they require you to buy cable service too, or can you get the > > network hookup separately? > > > > I have been considering switching to cable off and on, myself. > > > > Chris > > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > > ' > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 10:01:03 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260ABD@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Actually, I bet it's more like: friends first, then back-scratchers, > then local folk, then finally out on the list. As it should be. > No dibbing. Unless Sridhar gives up on that 270. Then it's mine. Heh. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 10:09:05 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260ABE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Everything VMS I've looked at says the DEQNA is unsupported in VMS > >v5.2. Is that unsupported as in "don't call DEC/Compaq/HP", or > unsupported as in "it don't work"? Am I stuck with NetBSD then? Does > anyone know if NBSD will mop-boot over the DEQNA? I don't have VMS > older than 6.2. ISTR that's correct, and that's unsupported as in "We never could get it to work right, so you're on your own..." The suggested solution I've seen is to replace it with a DELQA board. :) Try it with 6.2. If it works, it works. If not, let me know, I may eventually be able to get a bootable MicroVMS 4.x setup on tk50. That is to say, I have MicroVMS 4.x on a VAX with a questionable RD54 (takes several minutes to spin up properly), and a shot tape controller. I will, as soon as I can replace the tape controller, produce a bootable backup if it kills me. > Oh yeah. It boots. VMS 5.2, but it's looking for the rest of a > cluster, and apparently a lot of its filespace was remote. Bummer. > Other than that, and the fact that I can't get it upstairs, > it's a cool > "little" box. Ok, have you tried booting it conversationally, and turning off the clustering? (I have never tried this, but it seems like it might work.) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 8 10:09:10 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: Message-ID: <3C88E226.E7D08D98@internet1.net> Doc Shipley wrote: > Oh yeah. It boots. VMS 5.2, but it's looking for the rest of a > cluster, and apparently a lot of its filespace was remote. Bummer. > Other than that, and the fact that I can't get it upstairs, it's a cool > "little" box. Why can't you get it upstairs? What case is it in? I don't mean to brag..... well Ok, I'm bragging a bit..... I carried my BA213 cased Microvax 3400 up to my 3rd floor apartment by myself, and I'm not exactly built like a tank, either. It didn't have the base/wheels on it, but those are plastic anyway. > > You know you're over the edge when the lack of ethernet access in your > garage is a problem. :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 8 10:16:17 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: Message-ID: <3C88E3D1.FD7EBE55@internet1.net> I have the original "Micro System Site Managenment Guide" for my PDP, and the hard drive caused truoble a few times. They replaced and reformatted it a few times it looks like. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >Storage: > >2x RD53-A 70M Micropolis 1325 > > If there is anything you want on these, back them up. They die with > alarming frequency. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Mar 8 10:20:57 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: OT: national control of internet In-Reply-To: <3C88A6B6.22408.53231@localhost> Message-ID: > Unfortunately too true. Control of info exchange is the priority of all > authoritarian governments. One of the reasons I lament the demise of FIDO, > NANET, local BBS's, and the like. > > Lawrence FidoNet in North America might be going down the tubes, but it's actually growing in popularity in Eastern Europe and a few other places. g. -- "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Mar 8 10:29:32 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: <3C88CF7B.A1EDFBD2@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20020308002457.P40749-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> <3C88CF7B.A1EDFBD2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020308162932.GA5532851@uiuc.edu> how about this: whoever's giving away the equipment can do it in whatever way they damn well please? it's their stuff, after all... sheesh. Ben Franchuk said: > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > I can't say that I completely agree,,, Some people have jobs that don't > > > permit them to check their email more often, > > > > There are also the best argument and lottery systems. Those options are > > out there and have been used before. Mr. MacCorkle's request, I dare say, > > is objectionable and would be unfair. > > I think the best idea is to put a closing date on lists of items, this > way > both the seller and buyer have a idea of the time factor and slower > mails > can catch up. Anyhow the seller not the buyer has the final say in who > gets > the product. With some of the more valueable old equiment it is > important > that it goes to a good home not the first bidder. > > PS. Does anybody know of a source of datasheets (PDF) online for the the > really old chips like RTL,DTL,74Hxx,74Lxx? You still can find the chips > but not the data. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 8 10:41:23 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:12 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines References: <1A54EF2D-3232-11D6-95BC-000393568996@hal.cwru.edu> <20020308023829.GB2952@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3C88E9B3.D0C50D81@internet1.net> None of my local friends understand, so it wouldn't matter if I had Enaic (spelling?) here in my possession. I'd still have to take the them saying, what do you have so many computers for? You've got like 20 286's? (I own 1 286, that's it). I realize that may not be the angle you were looking for, However. I have one friend that refers to me as owning a Univax. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they > collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the > point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? > Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when > nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 10:50:37 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they > collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the > point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? > Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when > nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. Well, you didn't ask how many "don't care," but I'm going to chime in anyway. ;) I couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks about my computers. In fact, as you said, I'd prefer they thought them worthless to an extent (though, that would actually make some things I'm interested in more difficult to find, since they would get trashed more often -- it's a mixed blessing). I collect machines for my own personal educational and recreational purposes. Admittedly, rarity is sometimes a factor, since any machine that you find which is "rare," may have all kinds of quirks or features which weren't replicated in other systems. Those interest me; the actual "collectability" of a system does not. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Mar 8 10:55:53 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:12:29AM -0700, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I can see it now ** Wanted "House with a two computer garage and > separate > living area on the side' I bought my house *because* it had a finished-out (carpet and paneling) 2-car garage. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 11:19:01 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] > I have one friend that refers to me as owning a Univax. If you own _one_ VAX, it may be more proper -- UniVAX, as opposed to a VAXCluster. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Mar 8 11:55:34 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: OT: national control of internet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C88A6B6.22408.53231@localhost> Unfortunately too true. Control of info exchange is the priority of all authoritarian governments. One of the reasons I lament the demise of FIDO, NANET, local BBS's, and the like. Lawrence > Sellam said: > > >...governments want to try to control the > >content, for various political and social reasons (political dissent, > >porn, etc.) As we all know, try as they might, they won't be able to > >control it, .... > > There is a scary article in last week's Weekly Standard that makes > this a more shaky proposition. Basically the contention in the article is > that the internet in China effectively *has* been placed under the control > of the Chinese government. The key technology there has been developed by > Cisco, AT&T, and other telecom giants given suitable financial inducement > by the chinese government, and as I understood the article, it involves > putting firewalls around the entire country, with enough power to sniff > packets for subversive terms to effectively render the internet unusable to > elements unfriendly to the government. > The article does hold out hope, based on cryptography, "pirate" > links from Hong Kong, etc. > Anyway, I'm not currently convinced that internet access is > currently synonomous with freedom of information exchange. > - Mark > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Mar 8 11:55:34 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: S/370 docs (was: Re: IBM big iron.) In-Reply-To: References: <3C857C84.24085.3C5118A@localhost> Message-ID: <3C88A6B6.5244.531D2@localhost> Oops. Back to the vault. Oh well. Thanks Sridhar. Lawrence > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I didn't respond to this thread earlier cause I couldn't find the document. > > Don't know whether IBM would prohibit it's availability but I have the > > IBM Systems OS/VS-DOS/VSE-VM/370 Assembler Language manual > > 6th ed(1979) > > > > While I don't want to part with it, I could make it available for scanning. > > If it's a business-envelope-sized booklet with a yellow cover, then IBM > would definitely mind making it available. You can still buy this, and > it's not expensive. > > Peace... Sridhar > From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Mar 8 12:15:58 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <20020308181557.GA4005@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Christopher Smith, from writings of Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 11:19:01AM -0600: > If you own _one_ VAX, it may be more proper -- UniVAX, as > opposed to a VAXCluster. :) ^^^^^^^^^^ Don't you mean a MultiVAX? :-) :-) :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 8 12:21:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Years ago, in the book "Steal this Book", Abbie Hoffman > suggested that anytime you end up with a punch card, in > order to be a troublemaker, soak the card in some solution > that, once the card is dried, has cause it to shrink > uniformly so that it will jam the reader. > As you can see, he wasn't much of a "fan" of "the system". Why not just punch some extra holes in it? /* was quite useful with 360 JCL From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 12:22:20 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6CF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > > > how about this: whoever's giving away the equipment can do it in whatever way > > they damn well please? it's their stuff, after all... sheesh. > > Finally, some sense! Agreed. We associate here my mutual choice, and we haven;t chose to create a communal organizational structure (and a commune simply won'y work with most groupings of people[0]) [0] ObCommFactoid: not slamming communes, but having lived in one for nine months, I can tell you it takes a special group of people to make it work, and we weren't sufficiently special.. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 8 12:26:47 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <3C88D40D.C9A7A338@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > Or do they mean the discs themselves aren't readable anymore, regardless of > > whether you've got a Domesday machine or not? > Stone tablets still keep better. But there seem to be few if any people around who have the hardware and knowledge to read Stonehenge. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 12:40:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260ACB@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Don't you mean a MultiVAX? :-) :-) :-) Maybe the dual-cpu VAX-11 configuration could be considered a MultiVAX? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 12:42:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020308184257.30851.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > "Synchronous communications controller" sounds like it requires a > > > DMV11 on the other end as well. > > > > It's a sync serial interface...you'd connect it to a CSU/DSU and a > > leased line, or something similar. I have at least one dial-up sync modem (from my HASP/3780/SNA days). ISTR it's 2400 bps. Also, for in-room use, we used to use sync modem eliminators - think of a null-modem for an async port, but add some electronics to squirt out a baud rate clock on both ports on pin 15 and 17. We used to use COMBOARDs off the test bench to make our own point-to-point HASP network for moving files from box to box. Beat paying DEC for their DDCMP cards (we didn't have a single scrap of Ethernet, even up through 1994). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 12:44:15 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6D2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Years ago, in the book "Steal this Book", Abbie Hoffman > > suggested that anytime you end up with a punch card, in > > order to be a troublemaker, soak the card in some solution > > that, once the card is dried, has cause it to shrink > > uniformly so that it will jam the reader. > > As you can see, he wasn't much of a "fan" of "the system". > > Why not just punch some extra holes in it? > /* was quite useful with 360 JCL Hmmm... that sounds familiar, he may have suggested that as an alternative method, using a razor blade... he'd have been pretty clueless about a keypunch, I think (although he started as a suit-and-tie guy). -dq From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 12:49:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Old chips / old TTY interface In-Reply-To: <3C88CF7B.A1EDFBD2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020308184935.6222.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > PS. Does anybody know of a source of datasheets (PDF) online for the the > really old chips like RTL,DTL,74Hxx,74Lxx? You still can find the chips > but not the data. No, but if a source comes up, I'd love to get access. As I mentioned recently, I'm contemplating building a replica of DECs W706 and W707 cards that use RTL parts. OTOH, if anyone has a PT08 lying around, I'm interested. It'll be a rack-width bank of DEC R-series, W-series and G-series boards, with the W707 in, I think, slots A07 and B07, and the W706 in slots A15 and B15. I would be happy just to get a W706 and W707 pair. I think I have everything else. If John Bradenatau(sp?) would surface, I'd see what he has, but nobody has heard from him in quite a while (and there's no machine on the phone listed at pdp8.com) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 8 12:50:09 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> So it's not really a garage anymore? I've never seen a carpeted garage, before. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bill Bradford wrote: > I bought my house *because* it had a finished-out (carpet and paneling) > 2-car garage. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 8 12:51:52 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <3C890848.EB29752D@internet1.net> Well, I do only have one Vax, but he's confusing Univac with Vax. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Christopher Smith wrote: > > I have one friend that refers to me as owning a Univax. > > If you own _one_ VAX, it may be more proper -- UniVAX, as > opposed to a VAXCluster. :) > > Chris > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 8 13:10:28 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <001601c1c6d4$e9e12f60$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Christopher Smith >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > >> Everything VMS I've looked at says the DEQNA is unsupported in VMS >> >v5.2. Is that unsupported as in "don't call DEC/Compaq/HP", or >> unsupported as in "it don't work"? Am I stuck with NetBSD then? Does >> anyone know if NBSD will mop-boot over the DEQNA? I don't have VMS >> older than 6.2. > >ISTR that's correct, and that's unsupported as in "We never could get it >to work right, so you're on your own..." The suggested solution I've >seen is to replace it with a DELQA board. :) Wrong! Unsupported means don't call if it don't work. It does not mean it will not work. It does work and if the DEQNA is working as it should (some dont) with few problems. It was done to retire the DEQNA as a then very old design that was replaced by the better, lower cost DELQA. You can get away with a DEQNA as late as 5.4-4, I'm running one! I was a digit then, and it was significant to my projects so I was in the loop as it were. Allison From ccraft at netgenius.orgc Fri Mar 8 13:14:28 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.orgc (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Thinning the herd In-Reply-To: <001701c1c676$b70ce240$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <001701c1c676$b70ce240$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <0203081214280D.03943@ccraft.springsips.com> I would be interested in apple stuff, at the moment, I'd really like to find a super serial card for my apple //e. If there are mainboards to spare as well, I would also like to grab a few of those. Thanks, Chris, RetroComputing Nut. ccraft@netgenius.org On Friday 08 March 2002 12:56 am, you wrote: > This culling is something I occasionally go through, normally with the aid > of the dumpster. > > One thing I'm finding really useful is Apple IIe/][/][+ power supplies. > This leaves me with the occasional main board, case, etc. If anyone wants > such things, keeping in mind that I'm not an Apple conoiseur, and don't > want to have to learn about the various options, etc, I'd be happy to ship > them for cost. I seldom buy such things unless they're under $10, and you > can guess that I wouldn't buy one for more than I'm willing to pay for the > PSU. Normally, there are few or no optional boards. Postage is all it'll > cost you, but I don't want to invest in someone else's stuff. > > I'll package & ship, but only if you spring for the postage up front. > > Dick From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 13:14:28 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L References: Message-ID: <3C890D94.C968A4E3@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > Or do they mean the discs themselves aren't readable anymore, regardless of > > > whether you've got a Domesday machine or not? > > Stone tablets still keep better. > > But there seem to be few if any people around who have the hardware and > knowledge to read Stonehenge. Who said anything about reading them? I said they keep better. :) BTW The Stonehenge circle is believed by some to be early calculator ( priest powered ) for calculating the major events of the seasons , stars , sun and moon cycles. Stonehenge era designers used a lot of TTL ( timber^2 logic) rather than CMOS ( Complex Mon-Olithic Structures ) in the design. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Mar 8 13:14:52 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706645A@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >PS. Does anybody know of a source of datasheets (PDF) online for the the >really old chips like RTL,DTL,74Hxx,74Lxx? You still can find the chips >but not the data. freetradezone is (effectively) gone now but I guess they would have had all this stuff. For TTL, I managed to get some CDs direct from TI: "Logic Selection Guide and Databook" "Designer's Guide and Databook" One or other of these has the TTL stuff. I did this a few years ago when I went to their website, found the technical literature section, clicked on the ones I wanted and filled in my employer's address. CDs turned up in the post, free, about two weeks later. Same thing worked for the Intel Developer CDs - these turned up quarterly for a while. I cannot find the sign up section anymore so I guess they've stopped (or they are somewhat more selective ...!) Motorola, Amtel, AMD and Cypress have all sent CDs too. It does save downloading and it certainly saves a good deal of space on the shelves too! Antonio From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 13:20:15 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L References: Message-ID: <3C890EEF.CFDB6CFC@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > But there seem to be few if any people around who have the hardware and > knowledge to read Stonehenge. Who said anything about reading them? I said they keep better. :) BTW The Stonehenge circle is believed by some to be early calculator ( priest powered ) for calculating the major events of the seasons , stars , sun and moon cycles. Stonehenge era designers used a lot of TTL ( timber^2 logic), DTL( Druid type logic ) , rather than CMOS ( Complex Mon-Olithic Structures) in the design. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Mar 8 13:26:40 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706645B@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Christopher Smith wrote: > >> From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] >> Everything VMS I've looked at says the DEQNA is unsupported in VMS >> >v5.2. Is that unsupported as in "don't call DEC/Compaq/HP", or >> unsupported as in "it don't work"? Am I stuck with NetBSD then? Does >> anyone know if NBSD will mop-boot over the DEQNA? I don't have VMS >> older than 6.2. > >ISTR that's correct, and that's unsupported as in "We never could get it >to work right, so you're on your own..." The suggested solution I've >seen is to replace it with a DELQA board. :) The warnings about "we'll soon de-support the DEQNA" started in release notes round about 1987. It lasted for at least another five years. Ethernet drivers used to use an interface called FFI - allegedly Flaming Fast Interface but that was presumably just for management consumption :-) Round about V5.4[-x] or V5.5[-x] this interface was replaced with a new shinier one (whose name I've either forgotten or never knew) and at that point the DEQNA was stated to have stopped working. I never actually tested this, but the DECnet folks (in whose group I was working) told me it just plain would not work - by design. The DEQNA was DEC's first Qbus ethernet interface and was IIRC basically a LANCE chip on a Qbus card, the LANCE chip being essentially a DEUNA-in-a-chip. The DEUNA was DEC's first ethernet interface. The DELQA was the result of what they learned from that experience. The Turbo-DELQA was a ROM upgrade that improved performance further. Antonio From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 8 13:41:18 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Mar 08, 2002 10:21:56 AM Message-ID: <200203081941.g28JfJX25577@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Years ago, in the book "Steal this Book", Abbie Hoffman > > suggested that anytime you end up with a punch card, in > > order to be a troublemaker, soak the card in some solution > > that, once the card is dried, has cause it to shrink > > uniformly so that it will jam the reader. > > As you can see, he wasn't much of a "fan" of "the system". > > Why not just punch some extra holes in it? > /* was quite useful with 360 JCL That reminds me of the time in High School when they had all of us in the 12th grade fill out this scanned form asking all sorts of information I didn't think they needed. The form was the type filled out with a #2 pencil and optically scanned. I filled mine out (more or less correct, leaving answers I didn't want to give blank), then took the extra time messing with the control marks along the edge. I don't know if the changed control marks had anything to do with it, but we never got the results back. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 8 13:43:16 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AC7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Mar 08, 2002 11:19:01 AM Message-ID: <200203081943.g28JhGn25597@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I have one friend that refers to me as owning a Univax. > > If you own _one_ VAX, it may be more proper -- UniVAX, as > opposed to a VAXCluster. :) The proper terms are "VAX system" and "VAX systems". I refer to them as a VAX (singular) and VAXen (plural), though. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 13:52:11 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260ACE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > >ISTR that's correct, and that's unsupported as in "We never > could get it > >to work right, so you're on your own..." The suggested > solution I've > >seen is to replace it with a DELQA board. :) > Wrong! Unsupported means don't call if it don't work. It That is more or less what I said, I think. :) I didn't mean that they didn't work at all, just that they'd had a lot of problems with them (so I hear), and replaced them because of it. > does not mean > it will not work. It does work and if the DEQNA is working > as it should > (some dont) with few problems. It was done to retire the DEQNA as a > then very old design that was replaced by the better, lower > cost DELQA. > You can get away with a DEQNA as late as 5.4-4, I'm running one! Tried 5.5? I have that version, so it would be interesting to know. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 8 13:56:31 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706645B@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Mar 08, 2002 11:26:40 AM Message-ID: <200203081956.g28JuVU25634@narnia.int.dittman.net> > The warnings about "we'll soon de-support the DEQNA" > started in release notes round about 1987. It lasted > for at least another five years. > > Ethernet drivers used to use an interface called FFI > - allegedly Flaming Fast Interface but that was presumably > just for management consumption :-) > > Round about V5.4[-x] or V5.5[-x] this interface > was replaced with a new shinier one (whose > name I've either forgotten or never knew) and > at that point the DEQNA was stated to have stopped > working. I never actually tested this, but the DECnet > folks (in whose group I was working) told me > it just plain would not work - by design. As someone that had a couple of DEQNAs in a MVII, I know from experience that V5.5 absolutely refused to work with them. We bought a couple of DELQAs (we got the Turbo, in fact) in the trade-in offered at the time. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 8 14:00:13 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >So it's not really a garage anymore? I've never seen a carpeted garage, >before. I like the garage my wifes parents have, it's got a raised floor! The downside being it doesn't have floor tiles that you can pull up like in a computer room so admitadly the usefulness of that raised floor is questionable. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Mar 8 14:02:22 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L Message-ID: CMOS = Complex _Megalithic_ Object Structures The builders of Stonehenge used CMOS, while the builders of Woodhenge (near Stonehenge), and some possibly similar (in function) structures at Cahokia, in East St. Louis, Illinois, used TTL. ;-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:14 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Seen on RISKS-L BTW The Stonehenge circle is believed by some to be early calculator ( priest powered ) for calculating the major events of the seasons , stars , sun and moon cycles. Stonehenge era designers used a lot of TTL ( timber^2 logic) rather than CMOS ( Complex Mon-Olithic Structures) in the design. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Mar 8 14:09:38 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: Message-ID: <3C891A82.211B8BDA@idirect.com> >Doc wrote: > Err, Jerome's offlist email just reminded me that I left out 2 major > points. > First, I totally spaced the M7555 RQDX3 controller. Yes, there is > one. It fell through the 2:30am email crack. > Second, I'd kind of like to have an RX50 diskette drive for the thing, > just because. I suppose I'd need cables too. Jerome Fine replies: Seems like we have more to trade than just the DHQ11 - I can put an RX50 into the pot as well - do you want two of them just in case? I have more than I know what to do with - the second one will not have a sled, but then you can use the sled from the first one when it goes bad (an RX50 almost never does) or the RD53 when it goes (which should be shortly by all accounts I have heard - unless you are very lucky). I will also look for a cable, but for the BA123 box, you will need a long cable if you don't put the RX50 at the top of the stack of 4 drive bays. Note that I am answering this e-mail from the "older" system (as I run in parallel for a while - plus I really will not switch until I have all my subscriptions to lists confirmed AND working). So if you answered to the "newer" system, I will not see the reply for another 24 hours. Probably answer to both for now if not too inconvenient (jhfinepw4z@compsys.to). I was going to ask which OS you will use until I remembered you have a VAX, not a PDP-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 14:16:35 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6D8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > That reminds me of the time in High School when they had all > of us in the 12th grade fill out this scanned form asking > all sorts of information I didn't think they needed. The form > was the type filled out with a #2 pencil and optically scanned. > I filled mine out (more or less correct, leaving answers I > didn't want to give blank), then took the extra time messing > with the control marks along the edge. > > I don't know if the changed control marks had anything to do > with it, but we never got the results back. Too bad you didn't go to my high school, 1980-1982... We had two such scanners- a little one that you fed a master into that had "the answers" and then subsequently the student answer forms, and it checked and marked them directly. Then we had a monster that was also programmable, but wrote out a 9-track tape that we'd load onto the Kennedy on the Prime... but IIRC, we could not get it to deal with the multiple marks. So I had to write a PL/I program that would always mark wrong any question with multiple answers. ;) From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Mar 8 14:19:19 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: OT: Carpeted Garages (was: MicroVAX-II questions) In-Reply-To: <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020308201919.GA4111@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Chad Fernandez, from writings of Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:09PM -0500: > So it's not really a garage anymore? I've never seen a carpeted garage, > before. Carpeted garages are, I understand, very useful for containing oil leaks (they just need to be changed every so often when they reach the saturation point) and protecting the appearance of the concrete underneath... of course, they're possibly not as good for computer collections if the carpet is made of those materials that promote electrostatic discharge or make parts dropped on them difficult to find. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 8 14:21:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 7, 2 07:57:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1381 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020308/9fe0318f/attachment.ksh From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri Mar 8 14:21:37 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem References: Message-ID: <3C891D51.506A687C@bluewin.ch> Tom Leffingwell schrieb: > > I'll check it out. What if the relationship isn't correct, like two of > the pulses are on top of each other? Is all the logic for generating the > pulses contained in the ASIC, or is it in turn driven by something > else? The ASIC from the bad system has no problem running the good drive, > so that's not a problem. Time to look at the DSD440 controller board... The green leds ( 1 and 9 ) should be on. Leds 2-3-4 are status leds : Led 2 : Controller waiting for interface. Led 3 : controller writing Led 4 : controller reading Leds 5 to 8 should be off : they represent a binary errorcode. I can look them up for you if required... Jos Dreesen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 8 14:25:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <20020308023829.GB2952@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 7, 2 09:38:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020308/60928787/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Fri Mar 8 14:31:13 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: >then took the extra time messing >with the control marks along the edge. > >I don't know if the changed control marks had anything to do >with it, but we never got the results back. I've heard (but never been able to test), that if you rub chapstick, or similar semi reflective goo, along the control lines of a ScanTron form, that it can't track where to check for an answer. Supposedly if this is done for exams (or similar right/wrong scoreing items), it will fail to see any answers, and thus not consider any wrong, so it will think everything is correct, giving you a perfect score. Now, I openly believe that something like chapstick can keep it from tracking where to look for an answer, but I find it harder to believe that ScanTron has their systems set to assume everything is correct, and only deduct those it finds wrong (seems like a setup like that would be way to easy to bypass... so I would think they would assume a score of Zero, and add up the right answers instead). Anyone have a ScanTron system they can try it on.... I have always wondered if it was true, or just one of those school age rumors. -chris From dittman at dittman.net Fri Mar 8 14:38:39 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6D8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Mar 08, 2002 03:16:35 PM Message-ID: <200203082038.g28Kcd025860@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > That reminds me of the time in High School when they had all > > of us in the 12th grade fill out this scanned form asking > > all sorts of information I didn't think they needed. The form > > was the type filled out with a #2 pencil and optically scanned. > > I filled mine out (more or less correct, leaving answers I > > didn't want to give blank), then took the extra time messing > > with the control marks along the edge. > > > > I don't know if the changed control marks had anything to do > > with it, but we never got the results back. > > Too bad you didn't go to my high school, 1980-1982... I graduated in 1982. We didn't have any fancy scanners for scoring tests, our teachers had to do that by hand. We did have a lot of the scanned tests for standardized testing and such, but of course those all were sent off for scoring. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 8 14:42:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Mar 8, 2 01:26:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020308/fadbf3fe/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Mar 8 14:43:33 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: HP 9845B parts available Message-ID: <14e.a1f6ec8.29ba7c75@aol.com> Well, I dug it out and brought it home. I am willing to part it out. What I have is a 9845B with no monitor, interfaces, paper cover, Roms or Rom Carts. It does have it's tape drives and a good keyboard I am willing to sell or trade parts. I saved it mainly to see what it looks like inside. I have wanted to take it apart for years. I used to have several and kept this for parts. Now this is the only one I have left, sniff. Please contact me off list at whoagiii@aol.com I will ship parts internationally. Thanks, Paxton Astoria, OR 97103 USA From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 14:51:51 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6E0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Anyone have a ScanTron system they can try it on.... I have always > wondered if it was true, or just one of those school age rumors. Thanks, Chris.... ScanTron was the small unit we had, and now I remember writing a suite of code at RETS to drive another one, this time, in BASIC and COBOL... The big scanner we had was a NCS Sentry , but can't recall the model number... -dq From tom at sba.miami.edu Fri Mar 8 14:57:20 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lost for other ideas, I decided to swap the 40-pin ASIC, and it checked out okay. What tells the ASIC to start outputting pulses? It seems I have a problem upstream. Thanks again, Tom From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Mar 8 15:17:46 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6E1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Too bad you didn't go to my high school, 1980-1982... > > I graduated in 1982. Ah, same time frame I was working for the schools (having graduated in 1975). > We didn't have any fancy scanners for scoring tests, our > teachers had to do that by hand. We did have a lot of the > scanned tests for standardized testing and such, but of > course those all were sent off for scoring. Indiana has had a strong committment to education during most of my life. We insitiuted a state-wide system for tracking student progress in basic skills beginning in 1980, and we did a good job, but failed to pilot the system; if you think you know something about what sysadmins call "lusers", imagine a group of people who talk all day to 2nd graders then you have to explain a command-driven interface to them... ...to make a long story short, basic skills testing got bad press from teachers in Indiana, even before the parents started getting a more accurate idea of how their kids were actually performing. -dq From jss at subatomix.com Fri Mar 8 15:20:21 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020308151336.C41737-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Actually, I bet it's more like: friends first, then back-scratchers, > > That's how I've always done it... > > In particular when I have something to give away (often just some > obscure spare part or manual or something like that), I try to find one > of my friends who I know has been looking for that item. > > Unfair? Well, maybe. But it's going to somebody who is going to use it, > and anyway, it's my stuff to do what I like with. You are all correct. I was only objecting to the guy asking for first dibs on the "next" free item. IMHO that sounds very rude. If that's not rude, then ... well ... I have first dibs on everything from everyone. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 15:31:38 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308163138.007ec430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. Joe From jss at subatomix.com Fri Mar 8 15:33:27 2002 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020308152709.G41737-100000@kenny.subatomix.com> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I most certainly do _NOT_ care what other people think of my favourite > machines. > > Consider HP calculators for a moment. I am not interested in some of the > rare models like the HP10A or HP70. They don't have features that I want > (heck, neither of those are even programmable). But I do like HP41s. > Much easier to find, and certainly a lot more fun to program, modify, > hack about with. My favorite PDP-11 is the 11/70. It is certainly not the rarest or the fastest, but for some reason it has stuck with me as my favorite submodel. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vcf at vintage.org Fri Mar 8 15:54:29 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: cdc 9766 disk drive Message-ID: Can anyone help this guy? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:38:36 -0800 From: John Kaur To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: cdc 9766 disk drive Am looking for a cdc 9766 disk drive, removable pack, 300 mb, series # is BK-7A1A in working condition. One I am running on my old pdp-11 has spindle bearing problems. I live is Tucson, Arizona. Willing to pay, but need soon. John Kaur, 520-622-1006. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 8 15:59:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Chris wrote: > Anyone have a ScanTron system they can try it on.... I have always > wondered if it was true, or just one of those school age rumors. I just found one at the ACCRC but don't have the time to go rubbing Chapstick on forms to test it out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Mar 8 16:09:26 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II, Symbolics 3620 documentation, software sou... Message-ID: <110.e897153.29ba9096@aol.com> In a message dated 3/8/02 1:20:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > What's an iPSC? Isn't that the first intel Parallel Super? Computer. I think I still have some cards for that, with multiple 82586 ethernet coprocessors on a Multibus II card. I have always wanted one of those. The closest I ever got was an empty tower and bunches of cards, and that was 10 years ago. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020308/eb3ebca7/attachment.html From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Mar 8 16:10:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AD2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one > for $1 and now > I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've Wow, they "upgraded" the power supply... that's a good deal ;) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Mar 8 16:25:57 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020308222557.GC10151@mrbill.net> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:09PM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > So it's not really a garage anymore? I've never seen a carpeted garage, > before. Its a garage, with garage doors, it just has carpet and wood paneling. Inside, it looks more like a den. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Mar 8 16:28:26 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Chris wrote: > Anyone have a ScanTron system they can try it on.... I have always > wondered if it was true, or just one of those school age rumors. I ended up with one awhile back, but it's missing the drive belts for the rollers. I'd be happy to try that trick out if someone knows where I can buy the belts for it. -Toth From djenner at earthlink.net Fri Mar 8 16:32:23 2002 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Mostek computers? References: Message-ID: <3C893BF7.CEF221FC@earthlink.net> The note on top of it says it's a Mostek SDB-80 Developement System. Ernest wrote: > > I didn't know that Mostek made an entire system? There is one at REPC that > someone dropped off. It has two 8" drives, and has a yellow and blue case. > It looks like an early vintage system but I don't know much about it. Is > anyone familiar with this computer? > > E. -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From aek at apple.com Fri Mar 8 16:39:25 2002 From: aek at apple.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:13 2005 Subject: Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II, Symbolics 3620 documentation, software sought Message-ID: > Does anyone have documentation or software for the Intel iPSC/1, TI > Explorer II or Symbolics 3620 that they'd be willing to share? TI Explorer docs can be found at http://www.unlambda.com/lispm/explorer-docs/ As I mentioned a few weeks ago, he's trying to locate an original Explorer. -- Check with Paul Pierce re iPSC/1's From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Mar 8 16:52:53 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> <20020308222557.GC10151@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3C8940C5.E5262E6@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Bradford wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:09PM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > So it's not really a garage anymore? I've never seen a carpeted garage, > > before. > > Its a garage, with garage doors, it just has carpet and wood paneling. > Inside, it looks more like a den. So where do you park the car ... in the Den? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 16:56:18 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AD2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308175618.0080c120@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:10 PM 3/8/02 -0600, Christopher wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > >> Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one >> for $1 and now >> I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've > >Wow, they "upgraded" the power supply... that's a good deal ;) Yeah, it lets the smoke out four times as fast now! Joe From mhstein at canada.com Fri Mar 8 17:29:09 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: AIM-65 Questions Message-ID: <01C1C6CF.9DD81AC0@mse-d03> No problem; if someone else hasn't already fixed you (Rich & Ethan) up, I can dig out the ROM images or (if I can't find the disks) recreate them. Write me off-list and, if still required, what format (Intel/Mot/bin?). Just to make sure yours are correctly installed, the last 2 digits of the ROM specify the location, so the BASIC ROMs are R3225 & R3226 and should be inserted in sockets Z25 & Z26 respectively (Cxxx & Bxxx address blocks). And the monitor is in Z22&Z23 (R3222 & R3223), but sounds like it's OK. As Tony mentions elsewhere the 2332's could be mask-programmed various ways, and later model AIM65s had jumpers to select 2732/2532, but the AIM65 ROMs are 2532 pinout; 2732's would need a couple of pins exchanged unless you have one of the later AIMs (I assume yours is the 1K/4K version).. At least two different types of keyboards were used, but nothing special about either. I have a few brand new ones left if you need one (Don't worry, Jeff, one still has your name on it :). Might also still have some manual sets as soon as I figure out who's getting what, and several spare AIMs for parts. mike ---------------------Original Message---------------------- >Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:41:02 From: "Rich Beaudry" Subject: AIM-65 Questions Hello all, I recently completed a trade for an AIM-65 that is about 80-90% working, but needs a little TLC. Hopefully someone here can help.... It appears to have the BASIC ROMs installed, and in the right sockets, but pressing "5" on the keyboard only results in the "<5>" display, and then the AIM hangs up. Only a press of the Reset button will free it up. I suspect the ROMs may be flaky, since one had quite a bit of (for lack of a better word) gunk on the tops of the pins. I cleanied it all off, but there may be some internal damage. These ROMs are part number 2332. I suspect these are 2732-compatible, at least in read mode, and not program mode... Does anyone have a ROM dump in Hex format? If so, could you email it to me so I can burn new ones? Actually, while I'm at it, if anyone has ANY of the AIM-65 ROMs dumped in Hex format, I'd appreciate copies. Then I could burn a whole new set... Also, the keyboard needs cleaning pretty badly. Unfortunately, I do not remember the manufacturer name or model #, but it is the standard AIM-65 keyboard. Has anyone ever fully taken one apart to clean it? If so, any gotchas? Thanks! Rich B. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 8 18:15:13 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <00d001c1c700$78773410$2bed9a8d@ajp166> From: Christopher Smith > >That is more or less what I said, I think. :) I didn't mean that >they didn't work at all, just that they'd had a lot of problems >with them (so I hear), and replaced them because of it. Actually the DEQNA was a burr in the VMS bottom since V4.2 or before. It wasn't a problem of getting 5.xx to work with it but rather a matter of finally saying time to retire the turkey. Likely 5.5 will work with it. >Tried 5.5? I have that version, so it would be interesting to know. Nope, dont have a copy. Did try 7.2 and it seems to work. Allison From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Fri Mar 8 18:15:36 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <200203090015.AA21166@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Subject: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:44:44 -0800 (PST) > From: "Zane H. Healy" > In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Smith" at Mar 05, 2002 04:33:20 PM > Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > I have heard that OpenSTEP ran on VMS (Alpha) at one point. > > > > Having never heard of, nor seen this, I am curious, and would > > like to acquire a copy of this miraculous thing to run at home > > (on a hopefully soon-to-be-had DEC 3000, using the VMS hobbyist > > license...) > > > > Does anyone have any idea where to get it? > > > > Chris > > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. There was a time when some Alpha AXP enthusiasts who, I believe, worked for a European subsidiary of DEC, started to port NeXTstep to the Alpha hardware. To us NeXT fans, this seemed too good to be true, and mostly that's how it ended up. Unsupported, unloved, and unfinished. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Fri Mar 8 18:19:02 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <200203090019.AA21180@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:10:00 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OpenSTEP for VMS > In-Reply-To: <200203052244.g25Mii717665@shell1.aracnet.com> > Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > First I've heard of it. It primarily ran on NeXT hardware (of course), x86 > > systems, and had limited support for HP and Sparc. I've *never* heard VMS > > mentioned as having any sort of an OPENSTEP environment. > > We are talking about OpenSTEP, right? Not NeXTSTEP? There has > been a port of OpenSTEP to XFree86 for long and long. You mean, of course, a port of NeXTstep to Intel x86 hardware. Starting with NeXTstep 3.1 (circa 1991) and following with NeXTstep 3.2, 3.3. And OpenStep 4.1 and 4.2. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From bill_r at inebraska.com Fri Mar 8 19:36:13 2002 From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question Message-ID: Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket holes? I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one so far. I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 19:37:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <20020308023829.GB2952@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 7 Mar 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they > collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the > point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? > Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when > nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. I dunno. It would probably help if I knew what "top collectable" is. The fact is, I didn't know I was a "collector" at all till I started reading the classiccmp archives. I just thought I had accumulated a lot of junk. Seriously. I _don't_ tend to collect anything at all that I don't/can't use. I had a very extensive cigarette lighter collection till I quit smoking, about 8 years ago. The collection quit being fun when I quit lighting cigarettes. I also had a fair accumulation of special edition knives, till I figured out that I was actively avoiding the sight of them. A special edition blade becomes worthless the first time you sharpen it. So I had all these cool, beautiful tools that I couldn't use. Bah! So, no. If I can't at least play hangman or Empire on the damn thing, I don't need or want it. If it has no monetary value, that just means I get more, quicker. Nobody but me is really impressed by them anyway.... Doc From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Mar 8 19:40:11 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC Message-ID: <126.cf8cbe6.29bac1fb@aol.com> I was looking through my DEC tapes to see what VAX, if any, were there. I found most tapes clearly marked RISC, and none marked VAX. I did find a couple tapes, early versions of Ultrix. They were not marked as for VAX or otherwise, but were dated around 1987 or 1988. So the question is when did the RISC series of processors come into use, and are these 'unmarked' tapes likely for VAX? TIA Mike Thompson From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 19:42:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C88E9B3.D0C50D81@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I have one friend that refers to me as owning a Univax. I have one who keeps asking me if I found my Univac yet. But he's bit with the same bug now. I offered him a VAXstation 3100 a while back, and he laughed, but he's ridiculed the idea of him owning a "dinosaur box" till it grew on him. I'm sorting parts to see what he gets this weekend. Probably the m30.... MwaaaHaHaHaaa.... Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 19:57:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Thinning the heard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Unfair? Well, maybe. But it's going to somebody who is going to use it, > and anyway, it's my stuff to do what I like with. Erzackly. Doc From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Mar 8 19:59:36 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203090159.TAA26291@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, > or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket > holes? The paper tape punch also punches the sprocket holes. > I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like > the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've > ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes > down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my > own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one > so far. You have been unsuccessful for a very simple reason. Western Numerical Controls sells new and refurbished tape readers and punches at absurdly high prices. And because of this, they buy all the good punches that appear on ebay. In fact, the guy who buys them, is the exact same guy who sold you that paper tape. Its very difficult to compete with a bidder who plans to turn around and resell (or attempt to resell) the paper tape punches for $2000.00 or so that he buys for $200 - $600 on ebay. > I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the > appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for > actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my > own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. > Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the > sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? > Are you making some sort of manual paper tape punch? -Lawrence LeMay From tom at sba.miami.edu Fri Mar 8 20:10:49 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > What you are saying is that you have a good stepper motor connected to a > good head positioner mechanism. You know it's good because the other > logic board will operate it. Correct. > You have a logic board that is outputting the right signals to the motor Well, its outputing signals...I wouldn't go so far as to say they are correct. > And yet the motor doesn't run properly. Nope... > Go back to the good drive. While the head is moving, look at the stepper > drive singals at the pins of the ASIC (23, 24, 25 IIRC) and at the > collectors of the ULN2074. In particular look at the mark-space ratio and > freqeuncy. > > Now go to the faulty drive and look at the same signals. What (if any) > differences do you see? I'll check it out. What if the relationship isn't correct, like two of the pulses are on top of each other? Is all the logic for generating the pulses contained in the ASIC, or is it in turn driven by something else? The ASIC from the bad system has no problem running the good drive, so that's not a problem. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 8 20:39:44 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: IC replacement tricks (was Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?) References: <20020307144713.55063.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C8975F0.8090605@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hey, my method works beautifully on TTL chips: get a #1 cannula (needle) and remove the sharp edge so that you simply have a very small steel pipe. Turn board around and heat pins to remove one by one. As soon as the soldering melts push the cannula over the pin and through the hole in the board. That's very gentle to the chip and the board. I have moved the C64 SID that way and it worked very well. -Gunther Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > >>On the risk of getting OT, but desoldering ICs is certainly on-topic... >> >> >>>>Good luck! Meanwhile, I'll try to get that blown 74123 out of my >>>>RX211 >>>> >>>Best method for replacing chips is to cut the pins of the broken >>>part and then take out the single pins with a desoldering pump. >>>Works good even on multilayers with a good soldering iron. >>> >>Yes, I have not only heard this hint, but also tried to follow it. At >>least with my tools, I always have trouble getting to the pins to cut. >>There is not much room between a pin, the board, and the IC body. >> > > I have a set of very sharp-nosed diagonal cutters - Xcelite, ISTR. They > are not available at the hardware store or Radio Shack. You can get them > at places like Greybar and such that sell electrical components. > > The IC-to-board clearance shouldn't matter. The best way to cut the pins > is to hold the dikes so they point straight-up-and-down and cut right > where the pin goes into the package (not possible for side-bonded ceramic, > but those are rare and frequently socketed anyway). From the description > of your problem, it sounds like you are trying to hold the dikes parallel > to the board. > > The goal is not to eliminate an semblance of a pin above the board, but > to free it from its neighbors so it can be removed on its own. I've > found that the severed pin can frequently be lifted out by heating at > the base, then lifting up when the solder flows - the severed shoulder > snags on the tip of the iron and lifts right out. > > On multi-layer boards, it can be difficult to desolder the power and > ground pins because the power and ground plane acts as a heat-sink. The > best technique I've found is to apply the right temperature (too hot can > blister off the traces) and flow in a lot of solder (1-2cm) Having a > set of heat-resistant nonmetalic tweezers can be a help in pulling on > the severed pin. It can take a while to get things flowing. Cleaning > out the hole can be difficult, but it's much easier with the pin out > of the way. I've found that mopping up can be aided with solder wick, > but the actual hole needs to be suctioned out, sometimes from the other > side (while heating the first side). > > >>I think if I use not too high a temperature, I can save the copper leads >>from getting off the epoxy, and it wouldn't matter if desoldering takes >>a bit longer: the bug is dead anyway. >> > > Right. The point here is that the chip is known dead (or you don't > care because you have a replacement) and the most important thing > is to preserve the circuit board. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Mar 8 20:45:08 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Someone can make a picture of a KDA50 cab kit please? References: <200203081345.g28Djmb14340@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C88C677.B1063751@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3C897734.6040107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Nick, > You didn't specify which cabinet you have. I may have a picture of > the BA213 kit I sold last year. I'll can check after work, if this > is the one you need. I guess so. I personally have a uVAX-II in the small cabinet, but I take anything, I don't care about the larger metal pieces, what I care about is the cable to the card and the SDI connectors. Those should be the same. I need the picture so a guy who doesn't know these things but may have the cables in a pile of stuff can recognize it. Thanks! -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Mar 8 20:45:26 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <3C8940C5.E5262E6@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3C88D4DD.3D5FC9DF@jetnet.ab.ca> <20020308165553.GM20416@mrbill.net> <3C8907E1.76AD5981@internet1.net> <20020308222557.GC10151@mrbill.net> <3C8940C5.E5262E6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020309024526.GM14293@mrbill.net> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 03:52:53PM -0700, Ben Franchuk wrote: > So where do you park the car ... in the Den? In the huge driveway. http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/house Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Mar 8 20:48:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: <200203090019.AA21180@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > You mean, of course, a port of NeXTstep to Intel x86 hardware. > Starting with NeXTstep 3.1 (circa 1991) and following with NeXTstep > 3.2, 3.3. And OpenStep 4.1 and 4.2. Oh, Gods. I have indeed opened the proverbial can o' worms. I meant a tarball, ostep.tar.gz advertised as "OpenStep Window Manager" for X11R6. I know what NeXTSTEP for white hardware is. I have a copy of 3.1. I just haven't found the hardware combo to run it. I still don't know where I got this, but I found tarball & README. It's AfterStep, with a title & readme touting it as "OpenSTEP for Linux". Somebody's idea of a joke? Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Mar 8 21:09:18 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > CMOS = Complex _Megalithic_ Object Structures > The builders of Stonehenge used CMOS, while the builders of Woodhenge (near > Stonehenge), and some possibly similar (in function) structures at Cahokia, > in East St. Louis, Illinois, used TTL. ;-) CMOS - Common Multi Origin Stone From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 8 21:27:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020308222720.007fd100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> All of the Teletype and computer tape that I've seen was prepunched. I've never seen a Teletype or computer type machine that could punch the sprocket holes. I think I've seen unpunched tape but I don't remember what it was for. Joe At 07:36 PM 3/8/02 -0600, you wrote: >Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, >or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket >holes? I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like >the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've >ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes >down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my >own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one >so far. I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the >appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for >actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my >own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. >Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the >sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? > > From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Mar 8 21:37:35 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Seen on RISKS-L In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A6C7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > The item referred to above is as follows: > > > > "In 1999, USC neurobiologist Joseph Miller asked NASA to check some old data > > the Viking probes had sent back from Mars in the mid-1970s. Miller wanted > to > > find out whether certain information on gas released by Martian soil, which > > at the time had been dismissed as meaningless "chemical activity," was > > actually evidence of microbial life. NASA found the tapes he requested, but > > they didn't find any way to read them. It turns out that the data, despite > > being only about 25 years old, was in a format NASA had long since > forgotten > > about. Or, as Miller puts it, "The programmers who knew it had died." This information has started me to think. My opinion is that something is very FISHY about the whole incident. I am not calling anyone on this list a liar, nor flaming, but... In the 20 some odd years that transpired between the receiving of data and this request - no one cared about this data? C'mon, guys. The Viking missions were some of the most eagerly anticipated spaceprobes ever (the "life on Mars" thing), with *thousands* of scientists that could not wait to get their hands on the data as soon as they could. Especially data concerning chemical analysis of the Martian environment. Am I to believe that only a few programmers knew about this data, and were the big bottleneck/secret to get the numbers out? None of the thousands of scientists were able to get the full dataset? And no one complained? There are not copies of the processed data floating around the world in labs and universities? And really - how tricky was this format? The Vikings were not complicated very complicated in the brain. It sound to me like a myth in the making, as well. Maybe this NASA manager was a goof and quickly dismissed or screwed up the request (maybe a bad day at the office?), or maybe plain old stupid (can't read the tape on his Wintel box, so quickly covers his tracks)? Just some opinions... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Mar 8 22:32:34 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroVAX-II questions Message-ID: <164.a0d09a3.29baea62@aol.com> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002; Doc Shipley scribbled: > Just got home with my brand-spanking-old MVII... All right now! > It's indecently clean inside... Don't you just hate it when that happens. You miss out on the fun of blowing the dust out and having go everywhere. > M9047 Grant card What ever you do, don't let this card out of your sight. I once rescued a good quantity of uVAX II boards. Most of them went to list members, but what to do with the big stack of M9047's. One nearby DEC reseller gave me the number of another reseller out in California who was desperate for them. For a mess of M9047's, I got a some DEC badged drives of the RZ2x variety. Who'd thunk it? > Anybody have 2 breakout boxes for the M3107, and no M3107? We could > equalize.... For that matter, if anybody needs the card, I'll just > share. When I finally got tired of all the uVAX II stuff around here, I sent it to several list members for postage. It was the odds & ends stuff and included some of the breakout boxes. So there are list members with several of these in their stash. Just gotta get 'em to 'fess up. Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Mar 8 22:32:37 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness Message-ID: <192.37018af.29baea65@aol.com> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002; Julius Sridhar wrote: > Hi people. I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u (nowhere near on-topic > but I figure people here might know better what causes this kind of > problem). If I provide it with a sync-on-green signal to its BNC > connectors (It has five, I connect three), the monitor syncs up just fine, > but all the areas that are black show up with a green cast. The white > areas show up just fine. I haven't looked at an image with color yet, but > I would guess that all the colors would probably be shifted towards the > green. Any ideas? I use to see this often during my tour as a television studio engineer. It all came down to one word: TERMINATION. I had forgot to terminate the video cables going into a monitor, or disconnected the monitor at the end of a chain. We all know to terminate the SCSI bus, and the other day there was a discussion of terminating the floppy cable as part of Dave Jenner's thread on multiple floppies. We also need to remember that any time you run a signal down any wire from point A to point B, it needs to be terminated in its characteristic impedance. If it isn't, some bad things can happen. As an example, I use to work on some navigational transmitters with power output of a few hundred watts. There was a test jack for sampling the RF output and you hooked a scope to the jack. The gotcha was when you hooked the coax cable to the transmitter first instead of the scope. If you did that, the transmitter went down within seconds. The open circuit at the other end of the coax got reflected back to the transmitter as a low impedance and detuned it, and the monitoring circuits would detect the detuning and pull the plug. On the back of my Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 20 there is a switch next to each BNC, used to terminate each input. If the monitor does not provide terminate switches, you can always try BNC T connectors and 75 ohm terminators. In a later message, Julius Sridhar also wrote: > Never mind. The Clamp pulse setting was in the wrong position. I am curious to know if your monitor has termination switches. If so, how about setting the clamp pulse back to what it was and then terminating the inputs. If not, do you have the T's and terminators to try it that way. I would be interested to know the results. Mike From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 22:41:58 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I'm gonna pick it up today. Do you think I'll get more than $40 per > 'washing machine'? That's what they want for it... You might get a couple hundred per unit from a reseller or from IBM. > I hate to do it, but if no one is interested, I'm gonna just scrap the > controller for whatever parts I can get out of it. However, I won't do > that for a few days if you're interested. What kind of controller is it? Peace... Sridhar From red at bears.org Fri Mar 8 22:48:37 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Doc wrote: > I still don't know where I got this, but I found tarball & README. > It's AfterStep, with a title & readme touting it as "OpenSTEP for > Linux". Somebody's idea of a joke? If I had to guess, it's probably a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. ok r. From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 22:52:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Hosting Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020308155949.GA5528317@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > > 2. ftp & http access to machines I have attached to the network > > is *blocked* ( can get in via TELNET; whoop, whoop). > > If you need to get at your machines from outside, use SSH. It's secure which > is good for remote access anyway, plus you can do secure file transfer with it > (scp)... and your cable company is not too likely to have any idea what it is > so they won't block it ;) One thing I've used in the past is a terminal emulator that does automatic ZMODEM uploading/downloading to telnet into a machine, then I use rz or sz on the command line to transfer the file. Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 22:59:58 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Grant cards (was Re: MicroVAX-II questions) In-Reply-To: <164.a0d09a3.29baea62@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020309045958.93724.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > > M9047 Grant card > > What ever you do, don't let this card out of your sight. No kidding. I think I've seen three Qbus grant cards in my life. OTOH, Unibus grant cards are plentiful. We used to ship one with every COMBOARD (so you could pull our board out and still use your machine if you had to send it back for service or if DEC wouldn't fix your machine with a non-DEC board installed). One of these days, I need to scan the "Grantasaurus Rex" - the first NPR grant card for the Unibus. Much cooler than the standard DEC green-handled card. If by some chance anyone out there needs NPR (dual-height) Unibus Grant cards, let me know. I have plenty, new in the bag (they cost us about $18 each, way back when). These have no plastic handles - there's a cutout near the top for convenient extraction. Probably ought to scan these too, just cause they are not a run-of-the-mill card. Wish we'd had enough foresight to add a couple more pins to the design to make them convertible from Unibus to Qbus (move the jumpers and... voila...) Anyone could _make_ some functional Qbus grant cards, but given how large they would be, even a double-sided card costs a few dollars, just to remove that much copper from the blank. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Mar 8 23:07:22 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller References: <3.0.6.32.20020308163138.007ec430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C89988A.4AA5B4E5@tiac.net> What you need is the BASIC-52 programming manual. The BCC 52 implements every feature of BASIC-52. Joe wrote: > Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now > I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS > and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs > but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. > > Joe From vance at ikickass.org Fri Mar 8 23:12:57 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Julius Sridhar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness In-Reply-To: <192.37018af.29baea65@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > > Never mind. The Clamp pulse setting was in the wrong position. > > I am curious to know if your monitor has termination switches. If > so, how about setting the clamp pulse back to what it was and then > terminating the inputs. If not, do you have the T's and terminators > to try it that way. I would be interested to know the results. No termination switches. Haven't tried terminators, though. Peace... Sridhar From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Mar 8 23:22:25 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Grant cards (was Re: MicroVAX-II questions) In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 08, 2002 08:59:58 PM Message-ID: <200203090522.g295MQj00365@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > M9047 Grant card > > > > What ever you do, don't let this card out of your sight. > > No kidding. I think I've seen three Qbus grant cards in my life. What I find amusing is the stack of them I got out of a PDP-11 that was controlling a Cameca Microprobe. They'd already disassmebled everything by the time I got the stuff, but they must have had a blank card in every slot! The interesting thing is they'd made they're own grant cards out of Q-Bus prototyping cards! Zane From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Mar 8 23:26:12 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: <200203090159.TAA26291@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200203090159.TAA26291@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:59:36 -0600 (CST), you wrote: >> Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, >> or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket >> holes? > >The paper tape punch also punches the sprocket holes. > >> I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like >> the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've >> ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes >> down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my >> own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one >> so far. > >You have been unsuccessful for a very simple reason. Western Numerical >Controls sells new and refurbished tape readers and punches at absurdly >high prices. And because of this, they buy all the good punches that >appear on ebay. In fact, the guy who buys them, is the exact same guy >who sold you that paper tape. > >Its very difficult to compete with a bidder who plans to turn around and >resell (or attempt to resell) the paper tape punches for $2000.00 or >so that he buys for $200 - $600 on ebay. > Ouch. That would certainly explain it. I kept getting outbid by the same person, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. I guess it's the free market economy at work, but it makes it tough if you can't justify paying a high price from something since it's just to play with. >> I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the >> appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for >> actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my >> own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. >> Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the >> sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? >> > >Are you making some sort of manual paper tape punch? > Well, actually I was considering running it with a BASIC Stamp 2; then it could take either RS-232 serial input from a PC, or parallel TTL input from my Mark-8. I really have no idea how much force it will take to punch clean holes in the tape. I plan to machine the metal parts for my design and harden them, and then see how hard a solenoid has to whack the pins to get a clean cut. I picked up a box full of solenoids tonight at the Surplus Center, and I'm hoping they'll be strong enough. If so, I'll just need to put together some drivers so the BS-2 can energize them, and a stepper motor or something to pull the tape through. (If anyone can supply any details about how a commercial tape punch works, I'd be very interested to know. No sense reinventing the wheel...) -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From frank at artair.com Fri Mar 8 23:46:28 2002 From: frank at artair.com (Frank Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020308222720.007fd100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20020308222720.007fd100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2410000.1015652788@k6> My ASR-33 Teletype punches the feed hole along with the code holes. It uses friction-feed rollers to pull the blank tape off the roll and feed it into the punch (which has 9 pins in line, 8 for the data and a smaller one for the sprocket hole). Frank --On Friday, March 08, 2002 22:27:20 -0500 Joe wrote: > All of the Teletype and computer tape that I've seen was prepunched. I've > never seen a Teletype or computer type machine that could punch the > sprocket holes. I think I've seen unpunched tape but I don't remember what > it was for. > > Joe > > > At 07:36 PM 3/8/02 -0600, you wrote: >> Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, >> or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket >> holes? I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like >> the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've >> ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes >> down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my >> own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one >> so far. I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the >> appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for >> actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my >> own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. >> Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the >> sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? >> >> -- Frank Smith fsmith@hoovers.com Systems Administrator Voice: 512-374-4673 Hoover's Online Fax: 512-374-4501 From g at kurico.com Fri Mar 8 23:54:44 2002 From: g at kurico.com (g@kurico.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Intel iPSC/1, TI Explorer II, Symbolics 3620 documentation, software sou... In-Reply-To: <110.e897153.29ba9096@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C894F44.7561.4617B09@localhost> The iPSC/1 was a parallel supercomputer designed by Intel. It used 286's arranged in a hypercube. It was followed by the iPSC/2 which used 386's and finally the iPSC/860 which, as you can probably guess by the name, used the 860. George On 8 Mar 2002 at 17:09, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/8/02 1:20:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, > rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > > > > > > > What's an iPSC? > > Isn't that the first intel Parallel Super? Computer. I think I still have > some cards for that, with multiple 82586 ethernet coprocessors on a Multibus > II card. > > I have always wanted one of those. The closest I ever got was an empty tower > and bunches of cards, and that was 10 years ago. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Mar 9 00:07:05 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020309060705.11513.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, this statement below isn't entirely true. I bought two DSI punches (one with a reader) on eBay for $40.00 shipped for the punch in not very good condition and about $100 for the punch/reader in better condition. (see sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/ptfun.htm). I think you can get a bargain if you hold out for a less than perfect one or find one that Western Numeric might not find attractive (like a Remex). The practically unused GE Decitek reader on my web page I found on eBay (in a beautiful flight case, and this unit alone is still sold NEW for >1700.00), I got for $20 probably because the seller misclassified it not knowing what it was. No docs and 24 DIP switches but I have it working well enough. The manual is still available - for more than 3 times what I paid for the unit! The data I/O reader on that page (~$50) took some goofing around with to power, and figuring out mystery serial speed/bits/parity, but it was very well worth it! It's unusual in that it can read 5-8 level tape by rotating a guide in the read head. I also have dealt with Western Numeric and their prices are high on parts and stuff, because they can be. I needed belts for the unit I got in bad condition. After some looking around on the Internet I found super Kevlar belts for about 20% of what he wanted for 'em. But, I'm a hobbyist, and if you needed it for business, you can't guess or waste time. There service is very good. If you can do this kind of serious machining, great; personally, I'd hold out for an "unknown" mechanism with an "unknown" interface or a broken one on eBay. I think coming up with the mech is 90% of the work, and keep in mind, it's got to be pretty rugged (I think the DSI is constructed mostly of tool steel). It's mechanism is stepper controlled, but I had to goof around with the belt tension quite a bit (cogged type belts) to get the rows of holes spaced just right and evenly feeding. The mech is powered by an AC syncronous motor that doubles as a fan. Apparently, a clutch helps to move the paper while the stepper does the fine movement. It's got solenoids and levers that actually do the punch pin movement. It is powered by a big 24/5 volt linear power supply. The DSI mechanism looks pretty rugged; the punch I have in better condition has sharper dies than the other, I think (count the number of holes, and then consider that these punches can do mylar, and, well, you can see why the dies need resharpening). I haven't taken mine apart yet, and Western wants $50 just for the manual. This is why you might think I'm a pig to have TWO punches, but I'm afraid of how much one would cost to fix if it broke because it's doubtful that I could repair it simply because of lack of unique parts no longer made. The DSI's have some kind of wacky Intersil processor running them, and good luck finding anything on the Internet about DSI. --- Bill Richman wrote: > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:59:36 -0600 (CST), you wrote: > > >> Does regular paper tape normally come with the > sprocket holes pre-punched, > >> or does the device that punches the data holes > also punch the sprocket > >> holes? > > > >The paper tape punch also punches the sprocket > holes. > > > >> I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, > and it looks like > >> the right stuff except it's totally without > holes. I don't think I've > >> ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the > idea that the sprocket holes > >> down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking > around trying to build my > >> own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at > scrounging or buying one > >> so far. > > > >You have been unsuccessful for a very simple > reason. Western Numerical > >Controls sells new and refurbished tape readers and > punches at absurdly > >high prices. And because of this, they buy all the > good punches that > >appear on ebay. In fact, the guy who buys them, is > the exact same guy > >who sold you that paper tape. > > > >Its very difficult to compete with a bidder who > plans to turn around and > >resell (or attempt to resell) the paper tape > punches for $2000.00 or > >so that he buys for $200 - $600 on ebay. > > > > Ouch. That would certainly explain it. I kept > getting outbid by the > same person, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together. I > guess it's the free > market economy at work, but it makes it tough if you > can't justify > paying a high price from something since it's just > to play with. > > > >> I picked up some stainless steel flat and some > rod of the > >> appropriate diameter for the holes today, along > with some solenoids for > >> actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining > the stainless to make my > >> own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the > new tape has me confused. > >> Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to > punch a smaller hole for the > >> sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? > >> > > > >Are you making some sort of manual paper tape > punch? > > > Well, actually I was considering running it with a > BASIC Stamp 2; then > it could take either RS-232 serial input from a PC, > or parallel TTL > input from my Mark-8. I really have no idea how > much force it will > take to punch clean holes in the tape. I plan to > machine the metal > parts for my design and harden them, and then see > how hard a solenoid > has to whack the pins to get a clean cut. I picked > up a box full of > solenoids tonight at the Surplus Center, and I'm > hoping they'll be > strong enough. If so, I'll just need to put > together some drivers so > the BS-2 can energize them, and a stepper motor or > something to pull > the tape through. (If anyone can supply any details > about how a > commercial tape punch works, I'd be very interested > to know. No sense > reinventing the wheel...) > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer > Simulator, Fun with > Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and > Technological Oddities. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Mar 9 00:09:45 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: IBM 3840 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Julius Sridhar wrote: > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > I'm gonna pick it up today. Do you think I'll get more than $40 per > > 'washing machine'? That's what they want for it... > > You might get a couple hundred per unit from a reseller or from IBM. > > > I hate to do it, but if no one is interested, I'm gonna just scrap the > > controller for whatever parts I can get out of it. However, I won't do > > that for a few days if you're interested. > > What kind of controller is it? All that I know is that it's an "IBM 3480 A22" controller. It seemed to hook up to a S/36 or something similar. > Peace... Sridhar > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Mar 9 00:09:58 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: <2410000.1015652788@k6> Message-ID: <20020309060958.42934.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> The DSI punches punch their own sprocket holes. Funny, I don't remember prepunched tape. Wouldn't that be punched tape prepunched with NULL's (ha ha). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Sat Mar 9 00:40:01 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question Message-ID: <200203090640.AA22364@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:36:13 -0600 (CST) > From: Bill Richman > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question > > Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, > or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket > holes? I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like > the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've > ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes > down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my > own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one > so far. I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the > appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for > actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my > own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. > Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the > sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? That's the way it is. The sprocket hole gets punched along with all the data holes. Even the TTY33-ASR did it that way. Otherwise you would have a tough alignment problem between the data and the "timing track". carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From meltlet at fastmail.fm Sat Mar 9 04:56:29 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: DECstation Ultrix Message-ID: <1015671395.2881.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Hello all! I'd like to get in contact with anyone that has access to a DECstation 3100 with Ultrix. My problem is that I have a Cranfield DECstation which was built to run in a NFS environment. I've rebuilt the network scripts &c to get it to boot 'multiuser', but as it's missing the whole of /usr and refuses to present me with a login prompt (good thing really - lack of usr means I cannot change passwords anyway). I would really appreciate it if you have a working copy you could tarball /usr for me or point me towards somewhere with a publicly accessible archive...? TIA Alex From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 9 06:44:28 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller In-Reply-To: <3C89988A.4AA5B4E5@tiac.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020308163138.007ec430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020309074428.007f8c90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:07 AM 3/9/02 -0500, Bob wrote: >What you need is the BASIC-52 programming manual. The BCC 52 implements every >feature of BASIC-52. I have one of those. What I need is a manual for the board that shows what ports are used and what other physical devices it has so that I can make sure everything is working. For example, it has a HM6264 IC on it. MY fluke 9010 says that there is no RAM on the board and yet the 6264 is a static ram. And the board connects to a terminal and runs it's EPROM program with the 6264 installed but won't do either one without the 6264 installed. Why?? The EPROM program doesn't use any RAM and I've had other deices that run off of a 8052 BASIC IC and they didn't use RAM so it's not essential. Joe > >Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now >> I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS >> and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs >> but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. >> >> Joe > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Mar 9 10:06:03 2002 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: DECstation Ultrix In-Reply-To: <1015671395.2881.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: which mips ultrix version? On 9 Mar 2002, Alex White wrote: > Hello all! > > I'd like to get in contact with anyone that has access to a DECstation > 3100 with Ultrix. My problem is that I have a Cranfield DECstation which > was built to run in a NFS environment. I've rebuilt the network scripts > &c to get it to boot 'multiuser', but as it's missing the whole of /usr > and refuses to present me with a login prompt (good thing really - lack > of usr means I cannot change passwords anyway). > > I would really appreciate it if you have a working copy you could > tarball /usr for me or point me towards somewhere with a publicly > accessible archive...? > > TIA > Alex > > -- From meltlet at fastmail.fm Sat Mar 9 10:32:01 2002 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: DECstation Ultrix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1015691524.2505.4.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sat, 2002-03-09 at 16:06, Paul Thompson wrote: > > which mips ultrix version? > For the MIPS R3000 - I just need a tar of the telnet and ping binaries at the mo. Alex From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 9 10:42:30 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) References: <20020309060958.42934.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C8A3B76.8D7E4A82@jetnet.ab.ca> Loboyko Steve wrote: > > The DSI punches punch their own sprocket holes. Funny, > I don't remember prepunched tape. Wouldn't that be > punched tape prepunched with NULL's (ha ha). It is a know fact that Santa's Elves will pre-punch your paper tape for you on their days off. You have a choice of white,red,or green paper tape. A low speed punch 10 cps vers a high speed punch 50 cps could be a important cost factor. Now if you had black paper tape one could zap out the holes with a laser giving you a very high speed punch. Since the punching speed does limit paper tape to a practical limit of about 8kb was there any really large paper tape programs? 4K focal on a TTY was as long a program that I ever loaded from paper tape ... 20 minutes. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Mar 9 11:02:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <20020308165823.A29688@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Linux/VAX runs on QBus machines? Dos it at last run? If I read the status reports correctly, it "partially boots" on several of the QBus VAXen. > OpenBSD has "stolen" a lot of the NetBSD VAX stuff and may run > on a MVII. I may not have ever given OpenBSD a fair shake, but I've been less than impressed with it on x86 and Alpha. Seems in general to be more of a cult than a separate OS. > I would sugest to go to http://www.tuhs.org/ and get some old > 4.3BSD-Tahoe stuff. This is straight, plain, good, old BSD UNIX. > This will run fine on a MVII. Now, THAT is what I wanted to hear. What about the Ultrix-32M that's archived there? The images are all DX50 floppy. Does anyone know if these can be stacked to a bootable TK50 tape? I've seen a lot of passing mentions of Ultrix-32 on MVII. More info? Opinions? Doc From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 9 11:18:01 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: <3C8A3B76.8D7E4A82@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200203091718.LAA00427@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > A low speed punch 10 cps vers a high speed punch > 50 cps could be a important cost factor. Now if you > had black paper tape one could zap out the holes > with a laser giving you a very high speed punch. > Since the punching speed does limit paper > tape to a practical limit of about 8kb was there > any really large paper tape programs? 4K focal on > a TTY was as long a program that I ever loaded from paper > tape ... 20 minutes. > Well, a good optical reader can read 400 characters per second. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that seems like 4096 bytes takes 10.24 seconds to read in. Assuming its not a 30 year old tape that vaporizes at that speed ;) -Lawrence LeMay From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Mar 9 11:55:25 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E0F@BUSH02> As an example, I use to work on some navigational transmitters with power output of a few hundred watts. There was a test jack for sampling the RF output and you hooked a scope to the jack. The gotcha was when you hooked the coax cable to the transmitter first instead of the scope. If you did that, the transmitter went down within seconds. This is rot! On a transmitter with even a few watts output the RF probe coupling would be -10dB or more, so even an open or short on this would give a return of -20dB. This is so small it can be ignored, in fact many antenna systems aren't that good. As a termination a scope is a very poor match for any low Z RF source it's impedance being 1Mohm or more so it wouldn't matter if you plugged it in or not. Also most test gear can't absorb any ammount of watts for any length of time, so if the port was a high power snif it would have to be terminated at the port with a high power attenuator which gives a good match regardless of it's terminating Z. The open circuit at the other end of the coax got reflected back to the transmitter as a low impedance and detuned it, and the monitoring circuits would detect the detuning and pull the plug. This depends entirely on the wavelength length of the coax. Did you use an exact odd multiple of 1/4 wavelength coax every time? can you remember the make/model of these transmitters? Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Mar 9 11:59:04 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) References: <200203091718.LAA00427@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C8A4D68.850760DF@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > A low speed punch 10 cps vers a high speed punch > > 50 cps could be a important cost factor. Now if you > > had black paper tape one could zap out the holes > > with a laser giving you a very high speed punch. > > Since the punching speed does limit paper > > tape to a practical limit of about 8kb was there > > any really large paper tape programs? 4K focal on > > a TTY was as long a program that I ever loaded from paper > > tape ... 20 minutes. > > > > Well, a good optical reader can read 400 characters per second. Correct me > if i'm wrong, but that seems like 4096 bytes takes 10.24 seconds to read > in. Assuming its not a 30 year old tape that vaporizes at that speed ;) > > -Lawrence LeMay The TTY is the LOW speed punch/reader ... 10 CPS. The high speed reader is 300 CPS for the PDP-8. The problem with paper tape on the PDP-8 at least is that you had to read a character at a time. Read char... process ... read. This meant the paper tape had to stop the tape on every character. Reading the tape is not the problem ... stopping was. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 9 11:59:25 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC In-Reply-To: <126.cf8cbe6.29bac1fb@aol.com> Message-ID: <200203091759.g29HxP701264@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 8 Mar, Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > So the question is when did the RISC series of processors come into > use, and are these 'unmarked' tapes likely for VAX? The DECstation 3100 was the first RISC Unix workstation made by DEC. It came in 1989 to the market. (At least in good old Germany.) From there on none of the new MicroVAXen / VAXstations was supported by Ultrix. AFAIK Ultrix 3.0 was current at that time. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 9 12:55:13 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203091855.g29ItEF01462@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Mar, Doc wrote: >> Linux/VAX runs on QBus machines? Dos it at last run? > If I read the status reports correctly, it "partially boots" on > several of the QBus VAXen. Ohh! That is more than I expected. > I may not have ever given OpenBSD a fair shake, but I've been less > than impressed with it on x86 and Alpha. Seems in general to be more of > a cult than a separate OS. Maybe. I never used OpenBSD, but I have a similar impression. But this questions are not the topic of this thread. >> I would sugest to go to http://www.tuhs.org/ and get some old >> 4.3BSD-Tahoe stuff. This is straight, plain, good, old BSD UNIX. >> This will run fine on a MVII. > Now, THAT is what I wanted to hear. That 4BSD/Distributions/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a stuff is quite easy to install, once you got around the the *.Z != *.Z != .gz idiosyncrasy. If your disk is a non-DEC / non supported disk (I think this includes all RD5x) put a disklabel on the disk with a netbooted NetBSD. Also: You can use the NetBSD bootloader to load the 4.3BSD-Tahoe kernel if you can't get it to boot with the original bootstrap. You schould extract usr/doc/smm from the usr.tar ball to get the setup document... If you wane make a boot tape, write it with PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/maketape.* > What about the Ultrix-32M that's archived there? There is Ultrix/VAX? I only know about Ultrix/11 in the archive. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From mhstein at canada.com Sat Mar 9 13:07:04 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller Message-ID: <01C1C774.1DE70E20@mse-d03> Have you checked MicroMint and the CCI archives? They're usually pretty good. If you really have no luck, let me know and I'll do some digging; might have some info. mike ------------------Original Message--------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:31:38 -0500 From: Joe Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. Joe From mhstein at canada.com Sat Mar 9 13:10:03 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:14 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question Message-ID: <01C1C774.21C3D320@mse-d03> FWIW, all the PPT I have & have used is/was blank, and the perforators punched the feed hole along with the data. However, I also have some edge-punched cards, which use the same perfs & readers as PPT, and these ARE pre-punched, presumably to avoid long-term drift across cards. However, IIRC, the perforator does not punch the feed hole when it senses a card instead of tape. So, technically no problem either way, although re-punching an existing hole is not usually a good idea. For the curious, EPCs (not to be confused with the tiny 96 col cards which also have binary round holes) are similar to 80 col TAB cards but are continuous, connected with perforations at the ends and stacked accordion-style. They go through the PPT perforator just like PPT, getting punched along the edge, and are subsequently separated and used like other punched cards. Sounds like you're embarking on an ambitious project; I think you'd need some massive solenoids. The way it's usually done is to drive the punch pins with a motor-driven cam and the solenoid interposers only select which pins are driven. I've still got some punches & parts if you're interested; threw some of it out since no one seemed interested (except Steve, who understandably couldn't wait :), and it seemed like more hassle than it was worth, but I think there's still some stuff in the pile that'll be a lot easier to work with than building a perforator from scratch, either complete units or punch blocks/dies. Mind you, if you enjoy that sort of challenge I wish you well! And how about a reader (or two)? mike ------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:36:13 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Richman Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question Does regular paper tape normally come with the sprocket holes pre-punched, or does the device that punches the data holes also punch the sprocket holes? I recently bought some "paper tape" from eBay, and it looks like the right stuff except it's totally without holes. I don't think I've ever seen "virgin" tape before, but I had the idea that the sprocket holes down the middle came with the tape. I'm kicking around trying to build my own tape punch, since I have been unsuccessful at scrounging or buying one so far. I picked up some stainless steel flat and some rod of the appropriate diameter for the holes today, along with some solenoids for actuating said rods. I'm thinking of machining the stainless to make my own punch, but the lack of sprocket holes on the new tape has me confused. Do I need to add another solenoid and pin to punch a smaller hole for the sprocket, or did I just buy some odd-ball tape? From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Mar 9 13:56:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <200203091855.g29ItEF01462@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 9 Mar, Doc wrote: > >> Linux/VAX runs on QBus machines? Dos it at last run? > > If I read the status reports correctly, it "partially boots" on > > several of the QBus VAXen. > Ohh! That is more than I expected. The project is now on SourceForge, and seems to be fairly active again. But I have *plenty* of Linux boxen.... > That 4BSD/Distributions/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a stuff is quite easy to > install, once you got around the the *.Z != *.Z != .gz idiosyncrasy. If I know about the *.Z != *.gz but I thought *.Z = *.Z ?? > If you wane make a boot tape, write it with > PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/maketape.* Sounds like I'm busy this week. :^) > > What about the Ultrix-32M that's archived there? > There is Ultrix/VAX? I only know about Ultrix/11 in the archive. ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/Ultrix-32M/ Maybe the maketape utils will work with that too. Heck, I may end up having to populate the VS-II too (nice BA123 w/ 3x RD53, TK50, totally bare QBus) WooHoo! Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Mar 9 14:01:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: QBus Grant cards Message-ID: I dunno why y'all are so excited about them; I see them on eBay pretty frequently. As in: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008371320 Does this mean we should do a cooperative snatch? (DON'T go near there, Dave) Doc From hugh at openbsd.org Sat Mar 9 14:08:58 2002 From: hugh at openbsd.org (Hugh Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 11:02:01AM -0600 References: <20020308165823.A29688@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020309120858.A17636@argus.oxide.org> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 11:02:01AM -0600, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > Linux/VAX runs on QBus machines? Dos it at last run? > > If I read the status reports correctly, it "partially boots" on > several of the QBus VAXen. > > > OpenBSD has "stolen" a lot of the NetBSD VAX stuff and may run > > on a MVII. > > I may not have ever given OpenBSD a fair shake, but I've been less > than impressed with it on x86 and Alpha. Seems in general to be more of > a cult than a separate OS. > I'm curious myself to know if OpenBSD boots on your MicroVAX II. Snapshots are at: ftp.openbsd.org:/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/vax/ And as far as "stealing" code goes, maybe you should ask ragge for his opinion on the genesis of our port, or even just have a look at the sources and commit history of NetBSD/vax itself. You will find that a diverse succession of projects and individuals have made significant contributions over the years, including OpenBSD. /Hugh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Mar 9 14:27:37 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <20020309120858.A17636@argus.oxide.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Hugh Graham wrote: > > > I'm curious myself to know if OpenBSD boots on your MicroVAX II. > Snapshots are at: ftp.openbsd.org:/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/vax/ From looking at the INSTALL.vax list of supported controllers, I seriously doubt it. Looks like at best I could mop-boot over the DEQNA, but then I don't have access to storage unless OBSD can access the DEQNA as a Lance chip. I'll try it, though, when I get the thing hooked into my network. > And as far as "stealing" code goes, maybe you should ask ragge for his > opinion on the genesis of our port, or even just have a look at the > sources and commit history of NetBSD/vax itself. You will find that a > diverse succession of projects and individuals have made significant > contributions over the years, including OpenBSD. See there, Jochen, you got me in trouble! ;) Wasn't me, I swear. Doc From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Sat Mar 9 14:42:59 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: <200203091718.LAA00427@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <000201c1c7ab$0042d700$4d4d2c0a@atx> > > Well, a good optical reader can read 400 characters per second. Correct me > if i'm wrong, but that seems like 4096 bytes takes 10.24 seconds to read > in. Assuming its not a 30 year old tape that vaporizes at that speed ;) > A _really_ fast paper tape reader was capable of 2000 cps ... but needed special spooling arangements to feed the tape fast enough. Very imptessive to watch when it was working properly ... and even more impressive when it failed :-( Andy From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 9 14:53:17 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <20020309120858.A17636@argus.oxide.org> Message-ID: <200203092053.g29KrHn01741@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Mar, Hugh Graham wrote: > And as far as "stealing" code goes, OK. "stealing" was a bit missunderstandable. I wanted to express that the OpenBSD/VAX port was dead for some time and they took a big (?) amount of code from NetBSD to get it back to live. At least I have this impression. Since then, the two systems seams to live in a fruitfull coexistence, taking the Good Things (C) (R) (TM) from each other. I like this. Sharing code and work together is very BSDish. And: It shows that both systems can work together without those ^#&#!$* flame wars NetBSD vs. OpenBSD. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Mar 9 15:04:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Nice Manuals found up in the above garage storage area Message-ID: <000901c1c7ad$f1bab7e0$348d70d8@default> I have not been up in the storage area for over 10 years and I found several items of interest up there; 1. AJ832 keyboard printer terminal operator's manual 2. IBM - Introduction to IBM Data Processing Systems C20-1684-2 a pretty cool book. 3.IBM - Introduction to Virtual Storage in the System/370 GR20-4260-1 4. IBM - An Introduction to Linear Programming GE20-8171-0 5. Data Storage System 370 service 6. HP 9825 Desktop Computer Quick Reference 7. HP 9825A Desktop Computer Operating and Programming 7. A notebook with the 9825 Customer Course in it: covers - introduction; mainframe; array variables; tape;strings; advanced programming; general I/O; HP-IB;9872 Plotter;9885 Floppy Disk; Matrix Rom. Also found some old IBM clear/blue reel tape covers and a few punch cards. Not 10 years old yet but yesterday at the thrift I picked up a Compaq Armada 7770DMT ( 233MHZ) laptop for $14.99. It was missing the powercord and CD-ROM drive. I was able to find a cord today but cost $20 at the second store I stopped at. I got it and so far the machines seems to work fine. I'm waiting to see if it will hold a charge. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Mar 9 15:07:54 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:42:59 GMT." <000201c1c7ab$0042d700$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <200203092107.VAA07676@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Andy Holt" said: > > > > > Well, a good optical reader can read 400 characters per second. Correct me > > if i'm wrong, but that seems like 4096 bytes takes 10.24 seconds to read > > in. Assuming its not a 30 year old tape that vaporizes at that speed ;) > > > A _really_ fast paper tape reader was capable of 2000 cps ... but needed > special spooling arangements to feed the tape fast enough. > Very imptessive to watch when it was working properly ... and even more > impressive when it failed :-( I remember reading that the FISH Bombes, which ran at up to 2,000 cps frequently broke their tapes and spewed tape everywhere ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Mar 9 15:14:37 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller In-Reply-To: <01C1C774.1DE70E20@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020309161437.007f6210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Mike, Yes, I checked with MM. They have the manual but not on-line copy and it's expensive to buy. Joe At 02:07 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote: >Have you checked MicroMint and the CCI archives? They're usually pretty >good. If you really have no luck, let me know and I'll do some digging; might >have some info. > >mike > >------------------Original Message--------------------- > >Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:31:38 -0500 >From: Joe >Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller > > Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now >I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS >and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs >but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. > > Joe > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 9 15:24:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: from "Bill Richman" at Mar 8, 2 07:36:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4432 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/42a8bef4/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Mar 9 15:25:33 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203092125.g29LPYi01772@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Mar, Doc wrote: [Linux/VAX] > The project is now on SourceForge, and seems to be fairly active > again. But I have *plenty* of Linux boxen.... Hmpf. I don't like Linux. Pollute my holy VAXen with it horrifys me. > I know about the *.Z != *.gz but I thought *.Z = *.Z ?? Read: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Quasijarus/compress.html and the other pages about Quasijarus to get an impression about the personality of Michael Sokolov, the Quasijarus maintainer. Mr. Sokolov is a bit, uhhmmm, "difficult"... >> If you wane make a boot tape, write it with >> PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/maketape.* > Sounds like I'm busy this week. :^) Use maketape for creating the tapes, pre-disklabel the disks with NetBSD and read the setup paper. Than you will have a smooth ride on the VAX. Ahh, once the -Tahoe kernel is running it uses 7e1 on the console... > ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/Ultrix-32M/ > Maybe the maketape utils will work with that too. Hmm. I think that you will not be able to generate boot tapes from floppy disk images. > Heck, I may end up having to populate the VS-II too (nice BA123 w/ > 3x RD53, TK50, totally bare QBus) VS? You mean there is GPX graphics board set in it? Nice. I have to build a new bulkhead for the GPX in my MV III... -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From foo at siconic.com Sat Mar 9 15:44:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <446.834T2051T854059rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: On 10 Mar 2002, Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > while watchning 'I dream of Jeannie' episode 40 - > 'The girl who never had a birthday', Tony uses a > computer at NASA, It had black and white switches, > grouped into blocks four. > Looked as the front was made of brushed metal, have > anyone seen that episode or know that kind of computer > it might have been ? I vote this as the most obscure computer cameo ever :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 9 15:48:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 8, 2 09:10:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/e497afb8/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sat Mar 9 15:49:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller References: <01C1C774.1DE70E20@mse-d03> Message-ID: <001b01c1c7b4$39a463c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Perhaps an easier approach would be simply to download the Basic52 firmware and program it into the 8052-compatible microcontroller of your choice, handwired to a bit of perfboard about the size of a business card, together with a couple of 64KByte SRAMs. Together with a 64KB EPROM, which you download into the SRAM, then disable, it will allow lots of experimentation. When you get done, you may actually have a better feel for what to expect of this BASIC micro. The construction project could hardly take longer than an afternoon, and when you're done you'll have the baseline firmware at your disposal, though it might be a different verison. That will teach you a lot about firmware BASIC, even if it is a different version. I understand Intel's removed the BASIC52 stuff from their website, which means it won't be "out there" for too much longer. I'd recommend you find and download what you want, before it's gone. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "M H Stein" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller > Have you checked MicroMint and the CCI archives? They're usually pretty > good. If you really have no luck, let me know and I'll do some digging; might > have some info. > > mike > > ------------------Original Message--------------------- > > Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:31:38 -0500 > From: Joe > Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller > > Does anyone have a manual for one of these? I bought one for $1 and now > I know why. The 5V PS was putting out about 20 volts! I've fixed the PS > and got the card talking to a terminal again after replacing about 6 ICs > but I'm not sure of some of the features on it so I can't test it completely. > > Joe > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Mar 9 15:53:11 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: QBus Grant cards In-Reply-To: QBus Grant cards (Doc Shipley) References: Message-ID: <15498.33863.644321.575837@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 9, Doc Shipley wrote: > I dunno why y'all are so excited about them; I see them on eBay pretty > frequently. As in: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008371320 > > Does this mean we should do a cooperative snatch? (DON'T go near > there, Dave) 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Mar 9 16:18:57 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066466@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Andy Holt wrote: > >A _really_ fast paper tape reader was capable of 2000 cps ... but needed >special spooling arangements to feed the tape fast enough. And one built during WW2 would run rings around it (5000 char/second): http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lorenz/rebuild.htm >Very imptessive to watch when it was working properly ... and even more >impressive when it failed :-( The Colossus one was (at least once) run to the point that the tape failed - talk about paper cuts!! Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 9 17:15:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020308222720.007fd100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 8, 2 10:27:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 560 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/8571b6a8/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Mar 9 17:26:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Unix on MVII; Was Re: MicroVAX-II questions In-Reply-To: <200203092125.g29LPYi01772@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: Thanks for the pointers. I've got the Quasijarus0a distribution downloaded; now I just need to make tapes and read a lot. > > Heck, I may end up having to populate the VS-II too (nice BA123 w/ > > 3x RD53, TK50, totally bare QBus) > VS? You mean there is GPX graphics board set in it? Nice. I have to > build a new bulkhead for the GPX in my MV III... No, I mean the front bezel says "VAXstation II" There's no GPX, or storage controllers, or communication controllers, or memory, or CPU. That's what I meant by "totally bare QBus". The cab kits, drives, and bulkheads are there for the GPX, an RQDX3, a DEQNA, a TQK50, and the KA630; but there are no boards at all. It looks like someone stripped it for the refiners. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 9 17:46:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: MicroMint BCC52 BASIC controller In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020309074428.007f8c90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 9, 2 07:44:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/9310e13e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 9 17:48:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: <200203091718.LAA00427@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Mar 9, 2 11:18:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 346 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/d67c5555/attachment.ksh From rachael_ at gmx.net Sat Mar 9 18:25:41 2002 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer Message-ID: <446.834T2051T854059rachael_@gmx.net> Hi while watchning 'I dream of Jeannie' episode 40 - 'The girl who never had a birthday', Tony uses a computer at NASA, It had black and white switches, grouped into blocks four. Looked as the front was made of brushed metal, have anyone seen that episode or know that kind of computer it might have been ? Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: Rachael_@gmx.net url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Mar 9 20:26:04 2002 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Documentation on the HP IPC Message-ID: <200203100226.VAA07239@king.mcs.drexel.edu> I have an IPC with HP UX 5.0 and HP Basic in ROM. The system has a built in HP-IB connector as well as an HP-IB expansion card. The system boots fine but I haven't had much success in getting the built-in floppy drive to read the floppies I have prepared (using a wide variety of systems and techniques). I am trying to use an external HP-IB dual floppy drive (an HP 9122D) but the IPC refuses to admit that the 9122 is connected. So, if anybody has tranferred images to a floppy, please let me know of your technique. I have PCs running many OSs (from MSDOS 5.0 to Windows 2000 and OpenBSD, FreeBSD and Linux). I also have Sparcs with Solaris 7 and OpenBSD. On the subject of documentation. If anybody has manuals for this machine please send me a note. If you don't want to part with them I can pay for photocopies. It is very frustrating to have the IPC just standing there when I *know* I can get it to work. Thanks **vp PS I suspect that the built-in floppy is double sided-double density, but anybody knows block size, interleave etc. of these diskettes? From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 9 21:45:08 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) Message-ID: 'course, it takes a heck of a lot of steel for it to amount to jack squat.. Steel is so worthless compared to aluminum, etc. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From doaks at thecottagemonitor.com Sat Mar 9 21:58:37 2002 From: doaks at thecottagemonitor.com (Doak Serrels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Protect your vacation home against winter freeze for less than 30 cents a day! Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020309/ec499df0/attachment.html From dittman at dittman.net Sat Mar 9 23:51:05 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Mar 09, 2002 08:45:08 PM Message-ID: <200203100551.g2A5p5c31271@narnia.int.dittman.net> > 'course, it takes a heck of a lot of steel for it to amount to jack squat.. > Steel is so worthless compared to aluminum, etc. Except for "clean" steel, which is hard to get. A lot of it came from the German ships scuttled after WWI (in Scapa Flow). There's some other sources out there, like the German U-Boats scuttled after WWII, but before the first detonation of the atomic bomb. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Mar 10 02:17:18 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Documentation on the HP IPC References: <200203100226.VAA07239@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <002501c1c80b$fecb0d00$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > I am trying to use an external HP-IB dual floppy drive (an HP 9122D) but > the IPC refuses to admit that the 9122 is connected. > What address and configuration switch are you using on the 9122? From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 10 02:26:44 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: ADV: International Trade Message-ID: <20020310082811.ODNB21056.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Doc > Umm, that post looked like a duck & quacked like a duck.... I don't > _care_ if they said it wasn't a duck. Yes, and this kind of duck really sucks. When are we going to do something about this? Hello? Jay? Glen 0/0 From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 10 03:22:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Not really. "I Dream of Genie" was a popular show way back when. I > used to watch it in reruns in the afternoon when I was a kid in the > 80's. That and "BeWitched". I used to watch it in the 70s when I was still a wee little lad but to have seen a computer being used in an episode is quite bizarre. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sun Mar 10 05:38:35 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Breaking into my Newton In-Reply-To: <200203092107.VAA07676@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020310223331.02296a10@kerberos.davies.net.au> Well during the weekend cleanup (naturally looking for something else which I still can't find) I dug up my Newton Messagepad. After a quick dust and plugging it into the wall (I doubt that the rechargables will be in any condition after many years of non-use) it starts up. Of course, the problem is that it's password protected and stuffed if I know what it was. Any ideas on how to break in (I suspect after so many years I don't really care about the data although it'd be fun to find out what I saved there). This is an Original Messagepad running OS 1.3. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From wilby98 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 10 07:20:22 2002 From: wilby98 at yahoo.com (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: CD-RW on a VMS system Message-ID: <20020310142022.A18094@xs4all.nl> I am looking down the road a bit on whether it might be feasible to add a CD-RW to my VMS system. My first question is if it will work with my present hardware: To be clustered: VAXstation 3100, VAXstation 2000 (will probably not be clustered, but be a dedicated disk formatter), MicroVAX 3100-30, MicroVAX II. ... and software: VMS 5.5-2 (will hopefully upgrade to latest version when get CD-ROM such as 'Toshiba XM-6401B'.) So if I add a 'Plextor PlexWriter (SCSI) and use: CDRECORD LD062 ... will I have a way to backup data onto CD-R's? How about 'performance'? I am thinking it will be slow, but how slow? -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 10 08:36:06 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: <200203100551.g2A5p5c31271@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200203100551.g2A5p5c31271@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > > 'course, it takes a heck of a lot of steel for it to amount to jack squat.. >> Steel is so worthless compared to aluminum, etc. > >Except for "clean" steel, which is hard to get. A lot of it >came from the German ships scuttled after WWI (in Scapa Flow). >There's some other sources out there, like the German U-Boats >scuttled after WWII, but before the first detonation of the >atomic bomb. I know that the ships the German's sunk at anchorage at Scapa Flow were a favorite source for steel used in various instruments due to the lack of radioactive contamination in the steel, but is any steel still recovered from them? It was quite a large portion of the German fleet that was imprisoned there. Fascinating story for those that have never heard it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Sun Mar 10 10:14:56 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 10, 2002 09:36:06 AM Message-ID: <200203101614.g2AGEu611198@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Except for "clean" steel, which is hard to get. A lot of it > >came from the German ships scuttled after WWI (in Scapa Flow). > >There's some other sources out there, like the German U-Boats > >scuttled after WWII, but before the first detonation of the > >atomic bomb. > > I know that the ships the German's sunk at anchorage at Scapa > Flow were a favorite source for steel used in various instruments due > to the lack of radioactive contamination in the steel, but is any > steel still recovered from them? It was quite a large portion of the > German fleet that was imprisoned there. Fascinating story for those > that have never heard it. I think the German fleet in Scapa Flow is about mined out. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 10:50:52 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer References: Message-ID: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> Not really. "I Dream of Genie" was a popular show way back when. I used to watch it in reruns in the afternoon when I was a kid in the 80's. That and "BeWitched". Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On 10 Mar 2002, Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > > > while watchning 'I dream of Jeannie' episode 40 - > > 'The girl who never had a birthday', Tony uses a > > computer at NASA, It had black and white switches, > > grouped into blocks four. > > Looked as the front was made of brushed metal, have > > anyone seen that episode or know that kind of computer > > it might have been ? > > I vote this as the most obscure computer cameo ever :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 10:55:04 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) References: <200203100551.g2A5p5c31271@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3C8B8FE8.CF9388FD@internet1.net> I don't get it. What does the detonation of the atomic bomb have to do with steel? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > Except for "clean" steel, which is hard to get. A lot of it > came from the German ships scuttled after WWI (in Scapa Flow). > There's some other sources out there, like the German U-Boats > scuttled after WWII, but before the first detonation of the > atomic bomb. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Mar 10 11:06:53 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: Re: OT: name that computer (Chad Fernandez) References: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15499.37549.135310.181236@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 10, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Not really. "I Dream of Genie" was a popular show way back when. I > used to watch it in reruns in the afternoon when I was a kid in the > 80's. Me too. Mmmm, Barbara Eden. She runs around in that little skimpy outfit calling that guy "Master"...what do YOU think is going on there? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From dittman at dittman.net Sun Mar 10 11:16:29 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: <3C8B8FE8.CF9388FD@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 10, 2002 11:55:04 AM Message-ID: <200203101716.g2AHGTP11381@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I don't get it. What does the detonation of the atomic bomb have to do > with steel? > > Except for "clean" steel, which is hard to get. A lot of it > > came from the German ships scuttled after WWI (in Scapa Flow). > > There's some other sources out there, like the German U-Boats > > scuttled after WWII, but before the first detonation of the > > atomic bomb. Steel production uses a lot of air, and since the first atomic bomb detonation there's been a low-level amount of radiation in the air, with makes the steel slightly radioactive. There's also been some improper scrapping of steel from nuclear powered ships and submarines that was mixed with other steel. While the radioactive level of manufactured steel is low, there are some uses that require "clean" steel, such as radiation detectors and some medical devices. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 10 11:24:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: Scrapping steel (was RE: Suggestions for hauling ...) In-Reply-To: <3C8B8FE8.CF9388FD@internet1.net> References: <200203100551.g2A5p5c31271@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3C8B8FE8.CF9388FD@internet1.net> Message-ID: >I don't get it. What does the detonation of the atomic bomb have to do >with steel? Certain instruments are very sensitive to the amount of radiation present in the steel used to manufacture them, such as some of the measuring devices sent into space. All steel manufactured since the detonation of the first atomic bombs have higher levels of radiation present than that which was manufactured before. There's more radiation in the air since the advent of the atomic bomb and the manufacture of steel uses huge quantities of air in the smelting process and the radiation gets transferred to the finished steel. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 10 12:00:33 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer References: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> <15499.37549.135310.181236@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C8B9F41.A5387BE@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On March 10, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Not really. "I Dream of Genie" was a popular show way back when. I > > used to watch it in reruns in the afternoon when I was a kid in the > > 80's. > > Me too. Mmmm, Barbara Eden. She runs around in that little skimpy > outfit calling that guy "Master"...what do YOU think is going on > there? ;) Nothing yet ... this was from the 60's. :) The B205 was a popular movie/TV computer and here is picture of one in the Bat Cave and other places. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/onscreen.html -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Mar 10 12:08:48 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: ApplicationDEC 433MP server Message-ID: <3C8BA130.209D9D67@adelphia.net> Hello all; I just picked up a Digital ApplicationDEC 433MP server. Monster server box. Seems to be a multi processor (up to 4) 486 server that ran SCO/Unix 386, modified for this machine. I am trying to get it running again, and seem to have some memory errors when it powers up and self tests. Does anyone have this machine they can provide more info on? Looking also for parts, cpu boards (mine only has a single cpu card), memory, etc.... Can anyone help? Thanks David Barnes From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Mar 10 12:21:35 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed Message-ID: Does anyone have any information (ideally, data sheets) on the 8T01 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck with the IC Master online or a Google search... -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Sun Mar 10 12:30:11 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> References: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1015785011.22194.7.camel@silke> Hmm, i've actually seen that episode yesterday here on German TV. "Bezaubernde Jeannie", as they call it here, is a definitve MUST for me (Old!) and my daughter (very young..), every saturday. The "Computer" (called "Eric" in the german version) looked like something thrown together, mostly older IBM stuff i would say. The console looked like one from a smaller '360. The typewriter "the Master" used was definitively an IBM ms On Sun, 2002-03-10 at 17:50, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Not really. "I Dream of Genie" was a popular show way back when. I > used to watch it in reruns in the afternoon when I was a kid in the > 80's. That and "BeWitched". > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On 10 Mar 2002, Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > > > > > while watchning 'I dream of Jeannie' episode 40 - > > > 'The girl who never had a birthday', Tony uses a > > > computer at NASA, It had black and white switches, > > > grouped into blocks four. > > > Looked as the front was made of brushed metal, have > > > anyone seen that episode or know that kind of computer > > > it might have been ? > > > > I vote this as the most obscure computer cameo ever :) > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 10 13:09:43 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: CD-RW on a VMS system In-Reply-To: <20020310142022.A18094@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: >VMS 5.5-2 (will hopefully upgrade to latest version >when get CD-ROM such as 'Toshiba XM-6401B'.) > >So if I add a 'Plextor PlexWriter (SCSI) and use: > >CDRECORD >LD062 > >... will I have a way to backup data onto CD-R's? >How about 'performance'? I am thinking it will be >slow, but how slow? > >-- >Bill >Amsterdam, NL The biggest potential problem I see is VMS 5.5-2 as the newer versions of VMS seem to support non-DEC devices a lot better. Will CDRECORD and LD even support V5.5-2? As for how slow, I'm afriad I don't know. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Mzthompson at aol.com Sun Mar 10 13:10:03 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Transmitter (Was: RE: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness) Message-ID: <5b.243c0dcf.29bd098b@aol.com> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002; "Davison, Lee" wrote: > > As an example, I use to work on some navigational > > transmitters with power output of a few hundred watts. > > There was a test jack for sampling the RF output and you > > hooked a scope to the jack. The gotcha was when you > > hooked the coax cable to the transmitter first instead of > > the scope. If you did that, the transmitter went down > > within seconds. > This is rot! No it's not. I know of a couple technicians who goofed and caused it to happen. > On a transmitter with even a few watts output the > RF probe coupling would be -10dB or more, so even an open > or short on this would give a return of -20dB. This is so > small it can be ignored, in fact many antenna systems aren't > that good. I agree with what you say here, even for the vintage of the transmitters. They were built in the 40's & 50's. It was even fascinating to see how the technology worked. To modulate a portion of the RF with low frequency (ranging from 30 to 90 hz) there was two RF coupling loops with a specially designed fan blade spinning between the loops. This changed the amplitude of the RF coupled from one loop to the other. You can probably imagine the fascination of some technicians when we swapped out this vintage tube type monsters with state-of-the-art-neato solid state units. Got questions from the some of the old timers 'Duh, it taint got no moving parts, how does it modulate the carrier?'. > As a termination a scope is a very poor match for any low Z > RF source it's impedance being 1Mohm or more so it > wouldn't matter if you plugged it in or not. Also most test > gear can't absorb any ammount of watts for any length of > time, so if the port was a high power snif it would have to be > terminated at the port with a high power attenuator which > gives a good match regardless of it's terminating Z. Because of the vintage of the equipment and operating in the VHF band (108-118 mhz), we had special scopes that that had a special RF input section that could handle a few watts. This was what we used to check the modulation pattens and the like. > > The open circuit at the other end of the coax got > > reflected back to the transmitter as a low > > impedance and detuned it, and the monitoring circuits > > would detect the detuning and pull the plug. > This depends entirely on the wavelength length of the > coax. Did you use an exact odd multiple of 1/4 wavelength > coax every time? Yes, it was required for use with the scope. > can you remember the make/model of these transmitters? Nope, I have slept since then. They were all special designed for the government. In fact when they were replaced with solid state units (1980's), we had orders to destroy the old ones. They did not want them on the surplus market where they might show up in operation later. I do remember now, one model was built by Wurlizter (sp?), yep, the electronic organ folks. And now, I would like to apologize to the list. While this meets (and exceeds greatly) the 10 year guideline, it would not by any stretch of the imagination 'compute'. I was simply trying to point out the need for proper termination of a circuit, regardless of where the circuit is and what it does. Forgive me. Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Sun Mar 10 13:10:05 2002 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC Message-ID: <105.125f6317.29bd098d@aol.com> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002; Jochen wrote: > On 8 Mar, Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > > > So the question is when did the RISC series of processors come into > > use, and are these 'unmarked' tapes likely for VAX? > > The DECstation 3100 was the first RISC Unix workstation made by DEC. It > came in 1989 to the market. Thanks, that was what my old and vague memory was recalling. > From there > on none of the new MicroVAXen / VAXstations was supported by Ultrix. What are you considering new? I am looking at the Ultrix 4.x Basic Installation guide dated 1990 and it lists over a dozen uVAX's, VAXservers, and VAXstations. > AFAIK Ultrix 3.0 was current at that time. Sounds about right. So it would seem OK to say that these tapes I have are for VAX. Looking at the tapes: 1) Ultirx-32 V2.0 16 USR TK50 1987 My question here would be was this the only tape needed to install this version? 2) Ultrix-32 V2.2-1 Supp TK50 1988 With this tape marked 'SUPP' I suspect that I only have the one tape of a multi-tape set. Well, someone else on the list was asking if I had any versions of Ultrix for VAX. I guess it looks like a possibility. Thanks, Mike From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 10 13:28:07 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Geometric Array Processor board Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020310142807.007ef380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone know much about these? I picked up TWO of these cards today and each one has 144 NCR45CG72 ICs on it. It looks ike EACH IC has 72 microproccesors in it. That makes a total of 20,736 processors!!! Here's a bit that I found while searching the net. IN FACT, these may be the exact cards that this guy is referring to since much of the stuff that I find does orginate at MMC. Joe 9. Geometric Arithmatic Parallel Processor {GAPP}, a real time vision recognition, dynamically partitionable, dynamically fault reconfigurable, array processor (SIMD) for Martin Marietta in Orlando. Each IC contained 72 microprocessors, composed of a single TCU and multiple ALU-register sets. Array grows in X and Y dimensions to match a required image array of pixels matrix, and decimates in time to allow fault reconfiguration and price/performance options. First successful SIMD VLSI. First successful real time image recognition. Responsibility included addition to instruction set {If then, case, etc based on if any, if all, if none}, redesign for performance enhancement, and design of fault reconfiguration switching at internal IC level and external array coordination. Non-classified version is the 45CG72 from NCR. From mythtech at mac.com Sun Mar 10 13:34:38 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: Breaking into my Newton Message-ID: >Of course, the problem is that it's password protected and stuffed if I >know what it was. Any ideas on how to break in (I suspect after so many >years I don't really care about the data although it'd be fun to find out >what I saved there). > >This is an Original Messagepad running OS 1.3. IIRC, if you hold the power button ON (slide the switch down like you are turning it on, but hold it down), and then press the reset button inside the battery compartment... that will wipe the system memory. That will reset the password as well as wipe out EVERYTHING you might have had loaded.... basically it defaults it back to factory settings. (Although, I think any system upgrades you installed are preserved). There is probably a tech note about this on Apple's web site, as it was a fairly common issue back in the Newton days. -chris From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 13:34:44 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer References: <3C8B8EEC.A8E1ED3@internet1.net> <15499.37549.135310.181236@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C8B9F41.A5387BE@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C8BB554.8CD59BAC@internet1.net> Exactly the 60's!! The 60's aren't exactly known for being wholesome, that was the 50's. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ben Franchuk wrote: > Nothing yet ... this was from the 60's. :) > The B205 was a popular movie/TV computer and here is picture of > one in the Bat Cave and other places. > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/onscreen.html > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Mar 10 13:56:33 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: PALCE16V8H Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E12@BUSH02> Slightly OT. Does anyone have the read/write spec for a PALCE16V8H? I want to put more memory on an 8032 SBC but can't afford to buy a programmer just to read the chip that does the decoding. I can replace it with a GAL part but I'd like to read the original. Ta. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From salo at Xtrmntr.org Sun Mar 10 14:21:08 2002 From: salo at Xtrmntr.org (Lubomir Sedlacik) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: looking for an image of OBP 2.25 for SPARCstation 10 Message-ID: <20020310202108.GB3414@Xtrmntr.org> hello, i am looking for an image of OpenBoot PROM for SPARCstation 10, the latest one - 2.25 Version 0. is there any good soul out there who would send me a dump from EEPROM? i would really appreciate it.. thanks, regards, -- -- Lubomir Sedlacik ASCII Ribbon campaign against /"\ -- -- e-mail in gratuitous HTML and \ / -- -- Microsoft proprietary formats X -- -- PGPkey: http://Xtrmntr.org/salo.pgp / \ -- -- Key Fingerprint: DBEC 8BEC 9A90 ECEC 0FEF 716E 59CE B70B 7E3B 70E2 -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020310/2747b66b/attachment.bin From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 10 14:44:35 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:15 2005 Subject: 990 In-Reply-To: <3C8BB554.8CD59BAC@internet1.net> Message-ID: Yesterday, we visited downtown Boston, braving the confusion and annoyance of the Big Dig, and rescued a, actually 2, Texas Instruments 990 computers. It is believed to be one of the last two still running in New England. With the spare boards we have, it is likely the second 990 can also be coaxed back to life as well. Later this week, we hope to rescue a cache of Hewlett-Packardss. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From salo at Xtrmntr.org Sun Mar 10 14:50:56 2002 From: salo at Xtrmntr.org (Lubomir Sedlacik) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: looking for an image of OBP 2.25 for SPARCstation 10 In-Reply-To: <20020310203915.38b3e1b8.list@lostgeneration.freeserve.co.uk> References: <20020310202108.GB3414@Xtrmntr.org> <20020310203915.38b3e1b8.list@lostgeneration.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020310205056.GC3414@Xtrmntr.org> hi, On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 08:39:15PM +0000, Andrew Basterfield wrote: > You can get one from here > > http://lios.apana.org.au/~cdewick/data/bootroms.html thanks to all who replied. i've never seen this site, sure it's cool :) regards, -- -- Lubomir Sedlacik ASCII Ribbon campaign against /"\ -- -- e-mail in gratuitous HTML and \ / -- -- Microsoft proprietary formats X -- -- PGPkey: http://Xtrmntr.org/salo.pgp / \ -- -- Key Fingerprint: DBEC 8BEC 9A90 ECEC 0FEF 716E 59CE B70B 7E3B 70E2 -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020310/a7b51a8e/attachment.bin From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Mar 10 15:06:07 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: CD-RW on a VMS system References: Message-ID: <3C8BCABF.C8DC835A@adelphia.net> Zane; I use cdrecord and ld 6.2 on a Microvax 3100/40 running VMS 7.1 with a Kodak PCD 225 to burn cd's and have no problems. Slowness??? well the Kodak writer is only 2x... other than that its fine... "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >VMS 5.5-2 (will hopefully upgrade to latest version > >when get CD-ROM such as 'Toshiba XM-6401B'.) > > > >So if I add a 'Plextor PlexWriter (SCSI) and use: > > > >CDRECORD > >LD062 > > > >... will I have a way to backup data onto CD-R's? > >How about 'performance'? I am thinking it will be > >slow, but how slow? > > > >-- > >Bill > >Amsterdam, NL > > The biggest potential problem I see is VMS 5.5-2 as the newer versions of > VMS seem to support non-DEC devices a lot better. Will CDRECORD and LD > even support V5.5-2? As for how slow, I'm afriad I don't know. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Mar 10 15:10:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed References: Message-ID: <3C8BCBE1.7363DFD0@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > > Does anyone have any information (ideally, data sheets) on the 8T01 > 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck with the IC Master > online or a Google search... > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with > Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. Never heard of the 8T01 Nixie driver, but check here for some 74??? Nixie tube drives and tubes. http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies.html#catalog -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mhstein at canada.com Sun Mar 10 15:12:35 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: spam (was:ADV: International Trade) Message-ID: <01C1C84E.84A20720@mse-d03> Why not start by just refraining from commenting and substantially adding to the spam every time... mike --------------Original Message-------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:26:44 -0500 From: "Glen Goodwin" Subject: Re: ADV: International Trade > From: Doc > Umm, that post looked like a duck & quacked like a duck.... I don't > _care_ if they said it wasn't a duck. Yes, and this kind of duck really sucks. When are we going to do something about this? Hello? Jay? Glen 0/0 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 10 15:28:48 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed References: <3C8BCBE1.7363DFD0@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002f01c1c87a$915c5fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's an old signetics part, and I've got the very old data book in which it still appears. It's going to require an easter-egg hunt, though, as I'm in the throes of reorganizing my stuff. I think it's pretty much like the 7445, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed > Bill Richman wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any information (ideally, data sheets) on the 8T01 > > 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck with the IC Master > > online or a Google search... > > > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > > Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > > Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with > > Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. > Never heard of the 8T01 Nixie driver, but check here for some 74??? > Nixie tube drives and tubes. > http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/nixies.html#catalog > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Mar 10 15:35:12 2002 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <3C8BB554.8CD59BAC@internet1.net> References: <3C8B9F41.A5387BE@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C8BB554.8CD59BAC@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020310203550.F04D727F5DA@mail.wzrd.com> Its all a matter of perspective. Its usually the decade that you spent your innocent childhood. The 50's weren't that wholesome either. No decade was. Its all in how its shoved in our face by the media/hollywood. Brian. On Sunday 10 March 2002 02:34 pm, you wrote: > Exactly the 60's!! The 60's aren't exactly known for being wholesome, > that was the 50's. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Nothing yet ... this was from the 60's. :) > > The B205 was a popular movie/TV computer and here is picture of > > one in the Bat Cave and other places. > > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/onscreen.html > > > > -- > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 10 15:38:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: PALCE16V8H References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E12@BUSH02> Message-ID: <003401c1c87b$ea8e2000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You'll need to know whether the part was protected or not. I'm very confused by what you say you want to do here. The 8032 has a 64K code space and a 64K data space. The code space is accessed using the nPSEN signal, while the data space is accessed via nRD and nWR. How you decode the individual chips (if you use more than one) is pretty arbitrary. I normally use a 64Kx8 SRAM for each, having copied the 64Kx8 EPROM in to the SRAM that occupies code space. This simply means you read from the EPROM and write back to it, which is convenient enough if, on reset, you've enabled the code EPROM in code space and the code SRAM in data space. You then simply MOVC/MOVX the data into corresponding locations from bottom to top, in the SRAM. On completing the task, which I decode in programmable hardware with what's essentially a 74F133 and an 'F138 that decodes the top 8 locations for external I/O, the rising edge of the MS I/O strobe (output n8 from the '138) clocks the '74ACT74 that selects the EPROM, which, now is disabled in favor of the SRAM each time the nPSEN goes active. The same flip-flop enables the OTHER SRAM, which, now, appears in data space. All this is really done in a pair of GAL22V10's, which decode the address space and produce the outputs that are needed for I/O functions not supported on the MCU. My only issue so far has been with speed, since I'm running a very fast version of the part. Small CPLD's, unfortunately, don't readily offer the very fast (<2 ns) input-to-ouput propagation delays I need. If you opt to use 32Kx8 or 8kx8 SRAMs, you still don't need any fancy decoding, since you simply get multiple instances of whatever memory you do place in the map. I'd be happy to discuss this with you off-list, if you like. The PALCE16V8H, BTW, is pretty much the same thing as the GAL16V8 in its various versions. It's just AMD's version (now LATTICE, as AMD spun off their programmable logic into Vantis, which was acquired by Lattice). AMD didn't make the programming spec's available to the public at large. If you have protected part and need to read it, you should probably give up on trying to read the device and, instead, devise your own decoder based on your system requirements. If you become really desperate, I do have some of the very earliest spec's on the Lattice version, which you might examine for your own benefit, and it might suggest a way to read the fuse map. I seriously doubt the AMD and Lattice parts are very different. That doesn't mean you'll easily be programming a device not supported by whatever programming hardware you have, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: PALCE16V8H > > Slightly OT. > > Does anyone have the read/write spec for a PALCE16V8H? > > I want to put more memory on an 8032 SBC but can't afford > to buy a programmer just to read the chip that does the > decoding. I can replace it with a GAL part but I'd like to read > the original. > > Ta. > Lee. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 10 15:39:47 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed References: <3C8BCBE1.7363DFD0@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3C8BD2A3.7FB2C0EF@rain.org> It is shown in the 1972 Signetics digital/linear/mos data book but does not appear in the 1974 edition. Hi Output - 68v min., Lo Output -2.75v max. What did you need to know? > Bill Richman wrote: > > Does anyone have any information (ideally, data sheets) on the 8T01 > 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck with the IC Master > online or a Google search... > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) From gmphillips at earthlink.net Sun Mar 10 15:57:43 2002 From: gmphillips at earthlink.net (Chip Collector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Intel RAM - What came when Message-ID: <001901c1c87e$9bd6e1b0$0100a8c0@sys1> Can anyone here help me with this. I need to know the sequence that Intel RAM (SRAM and DRAM) was introduced. If you think you know dates, give them. In know that Intel's first RAM was the 3101 SRAM Then came the 1101 SRAM I "think" the 1103 DRAM was next. Then comes... What? I suspect the 2101? Or was it the 2102? Not sure which came first. I think the 2111 and 2112 came after the 2102. Anyway, if you can help, let me know what order you think the Intel RAM was introduced. I've tried figuring this out from the 1977 IC Master but it list everything up thru the 2114 and does not indicate when the chips were introduced. Here's the base numbers I'm interested in. 1101 1103 2101 2102 2104 2105 2106 2107 2108 2109 2111 2112 2113 2114 2115 2116 2117 2118 2125 2148 2149 3101 3102 3104 3106 3107 5101 Also, if you know of any early Intel RAM not listed, please let me know. As always, I am looking to buy any vintage Intel or Intel 2nd source processors, EPROM's, PROMS's, ROM, RAM, or support chips you have, that I don't, that you don't need. In particular, I'm looking for the following: Intel C1701 EPROM Intel C1702 EPROM (not C1702A) Intel C1602 PROM Intel C1602A PROM Intel C3101A in white CerDIP package without visible gray traces. Intel C2704 EPROM Intel C8080 (not C8080A) Eng Samples of Intel 4004 thru 8088 processors. Toshiba TMP9080AC (8080 clone) Mitsubishi M58710S (8080 clone) Early AMD 8080's before AMD started using the AM9080 part numbers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020310/f659c132/attachment.html From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Mar 10 16:47:00 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: 990 References: Message-ID: <3C8BE264.6000006@dragonsweb.org> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Yesterday, we visited downtown Boston, braving the confusion and > annoyance of the Big Dig, and rescued a, actually 2, Texas Instruments > 990 computers. It is believed to be one of the last two still running in > New England. > > With the spare boards we have, it is likely the second 990 can also be coaxed > back to life as well. > > Later this week, we hope to rescue a cache of Hewlett-Packardss. > Great work, Merle! What model(s)? jbdigriz From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Mar 10 17:51:03 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Transmitter (Was: RE: OT Mitsubishi Monitor Weirdness) In-Reply-To: <5b.243c0dcf.29bd098b@aol.com> Message-ID: > I agree with what you say here, even for the vintage of the > transmitters. They were built in the 40's & 50's. It was > even fascinating to see how the technology worked. To modulate > a portion of the RF with low frequency (ranging from 30 to 90 hz) > there was two RF coupling loops with a specially designed fan > blade spinning between the loops. This changed the amplitude > of the RF coupled from one loop to the other. Goniometer. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 10 17:58:53 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: 990 In-Reply-To: <3C8BE264.6000006@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: I think they are both variations of the 990/12. One may be a model 8. I think one is a 13 slot chassis, the other a 17. On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote: > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > Yesterday, we visited downtown Boston, braving the confusion and > > annoyance of the Big Dig, and rescued a, actually 2, Texas Instruments > > 990 computers. It is believed to be one of the last two still running in > > New England. > > > > With the spare boards we have, it is likely the second 990 can also be coaxed > > back to life as well. > > > > Later this week, we hope to rescue a cache of Hewlett-Packardss. > > > > Great work, Merle! What model(s)? > > jbdigriz > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 10 18:30:45 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Today's Apple brag Message-ID: <200203110030.QAA14810@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Today's brag: a Woz IIgs with 20MB Applied Ingenuity internal HD and 1MB RAM card. I transferred the hard disk, cover (*smirk*) and RAM card to my 1MB ROM 03 IIgs, and now I have a faux Woz with ROM 03 firmware, a 20MB disk with 6.0.1 on it and 2MB of RAM. Now all I need is a CPU upgrade and a good modem ... The G3 for the PowerBook 1400 also arrived today too and that was almost as much fun. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The fastest way to fold a map is differently. ------------------------------ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Mar 10 19:22:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Intel RAM - What came when In-Reply-To: <001901c1c87e$9bd6e1b0$0100a8c0@sys1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020310202212.007f9340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Here's an interesting site that I found that may help: . click on Museum and then scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Historical Memories". You might also try Intel's website and search for 1103 or similar. There's some interesting stories there too. Joe At 04:57 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote: > I need to know was If you think you know dates, give them. In >know that Intel's first RAM was the 3101 SRAM Then came the 1101 SRAM >I "think" the 1103 DRAM was next. Then comes... What? Not sure >which came first. I think the 2111 and 2112 came after the 2102. >Anyway, if you can help, let me know what order you Intel RAM was >introduced. I've tried figuring this out from the 1977 IC Master but it >list everything up thru the 2114 and does not indicate when the chips were >introduced. Here's the base numbers I'm interested in. 1101 1103 >2101 2102 2105 2106 2107 2108 2109 2111 2112 2113 2114 2115 2116 2117 >2118 2125 2148 2149 3101 3102 3104 3106 3107 5101 Also, if you know of >any early Intel RAM not listed, please let me know. As always, I am >looking to buy any vintage Intel or Intel 2nd source processors, EPROM's, >PROMS's, ROM, RAM, or support chips you have, that I don't, that you >don't need. following: Intel C1701 EPROM Intel C1702 EPROM (not >C1702A) Intel C1602 PROM Intel C1602A PROM Intel C3101A in white CerDIP >package without visible gray traces. Intel C2704 EPROM Intel C8080 >(not C8080A) Eng Samples of Intel 4004 thru 8088 processors. Toshiba >TMP9080AC (8080 clone) Mitsubishi M58710S (8080 clone) AMD started using >the AM9080 part numbers. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 10 19:33:19 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: VMS: problems with INITIALIZE MUC6: (TK50) Message-ID: <3C8C095F.7000204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, this is a followup to the problem I'm having formatting a TK50 drive with a VMS filesystem, needed to create a diagnostic tape. I am on a VAX 6400 with VMS 5.4 or 7.2 (dual boot so to speak :-), nether works. I do $ INITIALIZE MUC6: ELAN When that runs the tape scrunches and spins happily until suddenly: %PBC0, Port is Reinitializing ( 45 Retries Left). Check the Error Log. %INIT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled then in the error log I find what's attached below. This time, I believe the critical entry is there. Could someone help me interpreting this? I suppose it might just have a data error, but this should really not make the whole thing stop. I had several warnings when I wrote a tape with this drive on a uVAX-II with NetBSD, and it still went on writing it all. So is there an easy fix? Could it be that the TK50 tape doesn't play well with the TQK70 controller? Would it be better if I hooked the TK50 to the DEBNT, but where on the backplane rear do I connect this sort of thing and how is the IDC connector wired on the VAXBI side? thanks for helping out, -Gunther ******************************* ENTRY 3695. ******************************* ERROR SEQUENCE 157. LOGGED ON: SID 0B000006 DATE/TIME 2-MAR-2002 14:18:55.32 SYS_TYPE 02400101 SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:08:56 SCS NODE: VAX/VMS V5.4 ERL$LOGMESSAGE ENTRY KA64A CPU FW REV# 6. CONSOLE FW REV# 4.0 XMI NODE # 1. I/O SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MUC6: MESSAGE TYPE 0002 TAPE MSCP MESSAGE MSLG$L_CMD_REF 6ADA0004 MSLG$W_UNIT 0006 UNIT #6. MSLG$W_SEQ_NUM 0000 SEQUENCE #0. MSLG$B_FORMAT 05 TAPE ERROR MSLG$B_FLAGS 41 SEQUENCE NUMBER RESET OPERATION CONTINUING MSLG$W_EVENT 0068 DATA ERROR READ DATA CHECK MSLG$Q_CNT_ID 132B0008 0342F6A1 UNIQUE IDENTIFIER, F6A1132B0008(X) TAPE CLASS DEVICE TBK70 MSLG$B_CNT_SVR 00 CONTROLLER SOFTWARE VERSION #0. 0C UNIT HARDWARE REVISION #12. MSLG$B_LEVEL 01 MSLG$B_RETRY 2C MSLG$L_GAP_CNT 00000000 GAP COUNT = 0. MSLG$B_FMTR_SVR 00 FORMATTER SOFTWARE VERSION #0. MSLG$B_FMTR_HVR 00 FORMATTER HARDWARE REVISION #0. TK70 DEVICE/CONTROLLER DEPENDENT INFORMATION DRIVE FLAGS 13 CARTRIDGE PRESENT HEAD AT TRACK ZERO POSITIONED AT BOT TRK NUMBER 00 LOGICAL TRACK NUMBER = 0. PHYSICAL BLK# 0004 PHYSICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 4. LOGICAL BLK# 00 LOGICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0. TAPE POSITION 0100B4 TAPE POSITION = 65716. DRIVE STATE 0A0C RD/WRT STATE 2B3C OPERATION FLGS 01A2 CNTRLR STATUS 02 RECOVERED BY RETRY DRIVE ERR CODE 13 COMMUNICATIONS ERROR ****** ENTRY 3694., ERROR SEQUENCE 156. LOGGED ON SID 0B000006 ERL$LOGSTATUS ENTRY KA64A CPU FW REV# 6. CONSOLE FW REV# 4.0 XMI NODE # 1. I/O SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _MUC6: MSLG$L_CMD_REF 6ADA0004 ORB$L_OWNER 00000000 OWNER UIC [000,000] UCB$L_CHAR 0CC44038 DIRECTORY STRUCTURED SINGLE DIRECTORY "SEQUENTIAL BLOCK" ORIENTED FILE ORIENTED AVAILABLE ERROR LOGGING ALLOCATED CAPABLE OF INPUT CAPABLE OF OUTPUT UCB$L_OPCNT 00000003 3. QIO'S THIS UNIT UCB$W_ERRCNT 0001 1. ERRORS THIS UNIT UCB$W_STS 0810 ONLINE SOFTWARE VALID CDRP$L_MEDIA 00000000 CDRP$W_FUNC 000C READ PHYSICAL BLOCK CDRP$L_BCNT 00000050 TRANSFER SIZE 80. BYTE(S) CDRP$W_BOFF 0170 368. BYTE PAGE OFFSET CDRP$L_PID 0001000D REQUESTOR "PID" CDRP$Q_IOSB 000001F4 00000000 IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 10 19:51:15 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: problems with INITIALIZE MUC6: (TK50) References: <3C8C095F.7000204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <075e01c1c89f$3e594e80$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: VMS: problems with INITIALIZE MUC6: (TK50) > Could it be that the TK50 tape doesn't play well with the TQK70 > controller? Would it be better if I hooked the TK50 to the DEBNT, > but where on the backplane rear do I connect this sort of thing > and how is the IDC connector wired on the VAXBI side? The TK70 will read TK50 carts. It will not write to a previously used TK50 unless it is bulk erased, and I wouldn't trust it then. It's meant to write only to TK70 media. I don't think the TK50 will work properly (or at all) on a TQK70 controller. You'd be far better off getting a TK70 tape for it. Cheers Geoff in Oz From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 10 19:56:51 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: A scary story with a happy ending. Message-ID: <3C8C0EE3.3090303@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, let me share a frightening story with you that I lived through while my family had naptime. I decided to try out Isildur's idea of booting Ultrix using a KA62A processor in the hope that that would be supported right off the 4.5 boot tape. And I just happened to have one such T2011 board in a box (taken off a lonely 6310 in a barn full of bird-poop.) So, I took all 6 KA64As out and stacked them on some papers that I use to pack most of my boards (with papers between the boards so they would not stick together :-). Put the KA62A in and fired up. A lonely light lit and no real function was to be observed. I moved all 4 MS65A-DA boards out too, because I figured that may be a KA62A doesn't know how to deal with MS65A-DA. I swapped in some of those T2014 that seem to multiply while stored in the box. Anyway, it still wouldn't work. The self test progress report shows that the CPU detects no memory and then it reports that problem explicitly and stops. The CPU error status lights say hexadecimal C0. I could not find any table explaining what C0 status code is. It could be boring (like "no memory found", which I know) or it could indicate some condition that I could fix, like "backplane wiring error" :-). I stuffed the whole XMI bus full with those 32 MB cards in the hopes that one would work, but to no avail. So, perhaps the memory access path in that CPU board is broken? Is there any rewiring to be done when converting a 6400 down to a 6200? Anyway, my daughter came downstairs indicating naptime was over and so it was time to finish up. KA62A and all MS62A back in the box and all 6 KA64As and 4 MS65A-DA back into the bus fired up and all processors were indicating they were somehow not agreeing who would get to be the primary CPU. Hit reset and they figured it out. But now they were bitching about memory and the CPUs showed minuses in the selftest monitor. Rearranged the CPUs and the memory, still no good luck. Everything was screwed up! I was afraid I had killed all my boards by careless handling (I did this before, may be not with that polyester pullover that might have sent static sparks, like they do.) Took all but one CPU out and that did do the self test OK. But one MS65A board seemed broken. It failed regardless which slot I put it. Finally I took it all out. Then the CPUs back in and again it didn't work. I then put CPUs back one by one powering up each time to see progress. Slowly, one by one, the number of board which I thought I had killed reduced down to 1, the memory board. The order in which I put in the CPUs and the restarting every time seemed to be important. Then, finally I even found one configuration of the memory boards where all 4 were detected and tested fine. Hey I was so scared I had killed half of my VAX through carelessness. But I didn't. I am quite confused why it is all so finnicky about the order of installing the hardware. I won't mess with this machine's XMI configuration any time soon. regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Mar 10 20:23:39 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Open systems: was DEC kidding about itself? Message-ID: <3C8C152B.1090409@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi found this funny t-shirt being auctioned on ePay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008676061 What I don't quite understand is what message this t-shirt was supposed to convey, so I just thought may be I should take it literally. And so I did :-) See here: http://aurora.regenstrief.org/VAX/open-systems.jpg regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 21:05:24 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer References: <3C8B9F41.A5387BE@jetnet.ab.ca> <3C8BB554.8CD59BAC@internet1.net> <20020310203550.F04D727F5DA@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: <3C8C1EF4.E69A4316@internet1.net> I'm not that old :-) Of course the 50's had there problems too, but they are generally portrayed as being quite wholesome. I wasn't around, but I suspect they were. It was probably backlash from WW2. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Brian Roth wrote: > > Its all a matter of perspective. Its usually the decade that you spent your > innocent childhood. The 50's weren't that wholesome either. No decade was. > Its all in how its shoved in our face by the media/hollywood. > > Brian. From William.King at dadaboom.com Sun Mar 10 21:06:10 2002 From: William.King at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: 2 qbus cards available Message-ID: I have the following two boards which I like to dispose of. Free to a good home, as long as you don't put them up on eBay. Buyer pays shipping, let's say $5.00 each. 1. Computer Products Model 312 w/cabinet kit. I believe this is a DHV11 clone (dual width, qbus). The cabinet kit has 8 DB25 connectors. 2. Simpact Assocates, Inc. ICP 1622 Comm (quad width, qbus). I have no idea what this card is, but it does have a socketed DEC 21-17311-01 chip on it (which I believe is the bus interface.) I imagine that it is a communications card of some sort. Both cards are untested and shipped as-is. The ICP 1622 was pulled from a working system, so I'd guess that it works. The other arrived with a pile of equipment, so I have no idea about it's status. Bill From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Mar 10 21:28:17 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: 990 References: Message-ID: <3C8C2451.4020108@dragonsweb.org> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I think they are both variations of the 990/12. One may be a model 8. I > think one is a 13 slot chassis, the other a 17. > I have a /10 in a 13 slot chassis. ~512K installed, several more 192 and 256K MEM A boards, and controllers for DS10 and DS50 drives, 911 VDT's (have 3 terminals), COMM, EIA, CI402, Some are spares, plus I have 202 modems, assorted extra cables, etc, so if you run across anything you need but don't have, give me a holler. I may have it. The drives and cartridges need a lot of work before I even think about trying to spin them up. Unfortunately they haven't been stored in the best of conditions. I'm not set up to do that myself, yet, and the only man I know hereabouts with the know-how and tools to clean, refurbish, test and align old SMD drives and disk packs isn't ready to get into restoring old gear just yet. In the meantime, I'm looking at the boot ROM source from Kossow's site for ways to hack in from a PC or maybe the 990/1 I have. Need to find an FD800/1000 or other SA800 series floppy subsytem for the latter, though. And software. Or I might dump the boot ROM on it and write/port some, at least a monitor/assembler/linker/loader. I'm going to be doing some 99xx(x) assembly here anyway. By all means please keep us posted on the progress. I'd be interested in knowing what software you got with the 990's, too. Thanks, jbdigriz From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 21:44:37 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? Message-ID: <3C8C2825.1AEFD946@internet1.net> Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading anything but Windows on this computer!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 10 21:54:43 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? Message-ID: <164.a2311a3.29bd8483@aol.com> In a message dated 3/10/2002 10:53:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: << Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading anything but Windows on this computer!! >> ive heard that slackware will. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Mar 10 21:57:29 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: problems with INITIALIZE MUC6: (TK50) References: <3C8C095F.7000204@aurora.regenstrief.org> <075e01c1c89f$3e594e80$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3C8C2B29.22E91FDF@idirect.com> >Geoff Roberts wrote: > > Could it be that the TK50 tape doesn't play well with the TQK70 > > controller? Would it be better if I hooked the TK50 to the DEBNT, > > but where on the backplane rear do I connect this sort of thing > > and how is the IDC connector wired on the VAXBI side? > The TK70 will read TK50 carts. It will not write to a previously used TK50 > unless it is bulk erased, and I > wouldn't trust it then. It's meant to write only to TK70 media. > I don't think the TK50 will work properly (or at all) on a TQK70 controller. Jerome Fine replies: >From all the information I have ever been able to find, there are only three differences between unused TK50 media and unused TK70 media: (a) One is CompacTape other is CompacTapeII (b) CompacTape letters are brown, CompacTapeII letters are blue (c) Cost Memorex used to have a site on DLT tapes. Physical properties were identical for the media. While I do have an occasional problem with a TK70 drive, every time a head cleaning has cleared the problem. Degausing a tape used in either a TK50 drive or a TK70 drive should be done before switching to the other drive. The TK70 controller was often used to "FIX" problems with TK50 drives. All of the TK50 drives I have ever used work much better with the TK70 controller - of course, a TK70 drive works even better. All of my experience with the TK50 and TK70 drives has been with RT-11 on a PDP-11 (obviously). > You'd be far better off getting a TK70 tape for it. > Cheers > Geoff in Oz I have never had that problem. Bad tapes I have had, but then in most cases, they would not work well with a TK50 either. And since the speed of the TK50 is so slow compared to the TK70, I don't think I ever managed to verify if a TK50 wrote the correct information in the first place except during testing with a small number of small files. The first time I wrote a full 32 MBytes with a TK50, I quit after the "/VERIFY:ONLY" command had run for an hour and was still not finished. With a TK70, both the write and verify times are about 7 minutes for 32 MBytes on a PDP-11. Since it takes about 5 minutes to compare two 32 MByte files on an RD53 under RT-11, the 7 minutes time is excellent. Of course, on my "newer" PC that now takes about 2 SECONDS when I run RT-11 and compare two 32 MBytes "devices". Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Mar 10 22:16:53 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: FREE: Sun-2 machines in Austin, TX Message-ID: <20020311041653.GW14293@mrbill.net> I've got a Sun 2/170 and a 2/120 (one is a big black rackmount cube-ish enclosure, the other is a deskside tower reminiscent of a skinny 3/260), free for pickup in Austin, TX. The /170 will need some cleanup and TLC; the /120 just needs a monitor cable (9pin mono monitor; an all-wires straight-through 9pin serial cable works fine), keyboard cable, mouse, and mouse pad. WILL NOT SHIP. You will need to come pick these up. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Mar 10 22:18:29 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: FREE: Sun VME boards in Austin, TX Message-ID: <20020311041829.GX14293@mrbill.net> I've got a pile (seven or eight or maybe more) of Sun VME boards free for pickup in Austin, TX. I know one of them is a 4/6x0 memory board (tons of 30pin slots); i've got a couple of SCSI controllers, some IPI controlelrs, ALM-2 boards, etc. Just cleaning out the closet. Must pick up - WILL NOT SHIP, *unless* you have something nifty to trade (looking for ham radio equipment, etc..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 10 22:27:26 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <164.a2311a3.29bd8483@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C8C322E.AB5B7EE4@internet1.net> Yeah, but I don't have Slackware, I have Redhat :-) I think Redhat is supposed to work too, but I don't know how. I am trying it now, and I get an error, "Failed to read /modules/module-info" when access the cd-rom. It's Redhat 7.0 I so want to get something on here besides Windows. I can't even get OS/2 to load on this computer. I can't get SCO Open Desktop to load, and now I can't make Redhat to work :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/10/2002 10:53:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > fernande@internet1.net writes: > > << Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading > anything but Windows on this computer!! >> > > ive heard that slackware will. > > -- > Antique Computer Virtual Museum > www.nothingtodo.org From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Mar 10 22:37:24 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: More Free Stuff: Austin, TX Message-ID: <20020311043724.GZ14293@mrbill.net> More free stuff (and pictures), for pickup only: Pile of Sun VME boards: http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/vmeboards1.jpg.html http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/vmeboards2.jpg.html http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/memoryboard.jpg.html One DELNI, 8-port AUI "hub"/concentrator? http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/delni.jpg.html Three GRIDcase 1520/1530 laptops. ONE AC power supply, that works in any of the machines. One has a funky hinge, but still opens. One of them has a nice "PROPERTY OF THE IRS" sticker. 8-) http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/gridlaptops.jpg.html Again, free for pickup in Austin. Might ship, but you'll have to offer me something in trade if I have to haul this stuff to the pack-n-ship place. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rhb57 at vol.com Sun Mar 10 23:13:31 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: OT completely - found this on the previously discussed CTA "El" crash of 74.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020310202212.007f9340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: http://cpl.lib.uic.edu/004chicago/disasters/cta_crash.html Someone living in, or from Chicago mya have a interest. No need to further splatter the list with chatter, just posted this for informational purposes. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sun Mar 10 23:25:19 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed In-Reply-To: <3C8BD2A3.7FB2C0EF@rain.org> Message-ID: <20020311052519.83683.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen this chip at a very good price, but no docs, at an electronics mail order place. The more (relatively) recent TTL chips are rare and expensive if available at all. A scan or pinout would be appreciated! --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > > It is shown in the 1972 Signetics digital/linear/mos > data book but does > not appear in the 1974 edition. Hi Output - 68v > min., Lo Output -2.75v > max. What did you need to know? > > > Bill Richman wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any information (ideally, data > sheets) on the 8T01 > > 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck > with the IC Master > > online or a Google search... > > > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Mar 10 23:30:53 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: A proposal for a definitive URL linc source site In-Reply-To: References: <3C812621.9408.37A60882@localhost> Message-ID: <3C8BECAD.21376.2C9CDDB@localhost> Well since there doesn't seem to be too much interest here, when I winnow down my bookmarks, I'll upload it to you. No mini-stuff tho. Lawrence > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > The problem is the common problem on the net of too much information. > > Sellams site is a case in point, and IINM my site-list from T3C served > > as a source for his some of his list. The multitude of sites is just too > > overwhelming. > > I've been really want to add some intelligence to the VCF Link Library: > > http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl > > I want to eventually turn it into a search engine for classic computer > sites, where it will target the sites listed in the library and get some > keywords from them to drive a search engine. So if you wanted to find > info on, say, the C64 disk format, instead of having to check through > every Commodore link, you would ideally be able to plug that into the > search engine and it would point you to the site. > > That being pitched, Google seems to do a pretty good job of finding stuff > for you on the first try. > > > Sellams site would likely be the best place to list such a thing as it > > is well- known and would likely need only a minimum of re-organisation. > > I'm game for hosting it. > > > The main thing would be that the listing was the authoritive site in the > > opinion of the list, and save a collector from tedius Google searches. > > Possibly even a rating system could be used. > > I'm sure rankings could be automated using a Google-like mechanism, i.e. > sites with the most links TO them will receive top ranking and be > considered the "definitive site". > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 00:32:20 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC Message-ID: <3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net> Hello, This is what I still have left. You pay shipping. Please reply off list. -IBM 68X3815 MFM hard drive controller from AT with original cables -various mfm cables -IBM PC Network Baseband Adpater/A (new in the box, Microchannel) -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are replaceable, with cable) -Intel 386dx-33 with glued on heatsink -386dx compatible or upgrade chip, maybe Cyrix, I glued the heatsink on, can't tell exactly what it is anymore :-) -IBM keyboard cable for PC or XT, I think, maybe AT. It's not from a Model M -db25 to db9 convertor -1/2 height faceplate for Seagate ST225 -IBM PC (5150) full height block off plate for unused second drive bay -Fellows EMI glare shield for 14" to 15" monitor -2 internal narrow scsi cable with external centronics connector (ask for measurements) -long 5 device narrow scsi cable (generic) -3 two device narrow scsi cables -1 two foot single device narrow scsi cable (folded for low cross section) -several vary short narrow scsi cables, some with connectors like you would find on a card Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 11 00:43:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? In-Reply-To: <164.a2311a3.29bd8483@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/10/2002 10:53:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > fernande@internet1.net writes: > > << Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading > anything but Windows on this computer!! >> > > ive heard that slackware will. Debian will. I don't know about Slackware. Along about v4.0, Slack got to be more headache than it was worth. Doc From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 02:26:46 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC References: <3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C8C6A46.1170793B@internet1.net> Everything has been spoken for. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 11 02:48:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <3C8C1EF4.E69A4316@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'm not that old :-) > > Of course the 50's had there problems too, but they are generally > portrayed as being quite wholesome. I wasn't around, but I suspect they > were. It was probably backlash from WW2. As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things were better in my day". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Mar 11 04:01:18 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) In-Reply-To: <200203092107.VAA07676@citadel.metropolis.local>; from stanb@dial.pipex.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 09:07:54PM +0000 References: <000201c1c7ab$0042d700$4d4d2c0a@atx> <200203092107.VAA07676@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20020311020118.A9425@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 09:07:54PM +0000, Stan Barr wrote: > I remember reading that the FISH Bombes, which ran at up to 2,000 > cps frequently broke their tapes and spewed tape everywhere ;-) 5,000 cps I think. According to the people currently at Bletchley Park, they originally picked a good speed (perhaps at random or perhaps by trying faster and faster speeds). The tape snapped, and as you said it was very impressive because of the huge pulley arrangement. So they divided the top speed in half. -- Derek From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Mar 11 04:09:42 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC In-Reply-To: <105.125f6317.29bd098d@aol.com> References: <105.125f6317.29bd098d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020311110942.A251961@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 02:10:05PM -0500, Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > What are you considering new? I am looking at the Ultrix 4.x Basic > Installation guide dated 1990 and it lists over a dozen uVAX's, VAXservers, > and VAXstations. I meant all VAXen that came out after the DECstation 3100. I.e. VAXstation 3100m76, all (Micro)VAX 4000 models, the later MicroVAX 3100 models (m[89][0-9]). Some VAX 6000 models may be an exception. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 11 05:54:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large > > population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things > > were better in my day". > > So,... > you're saying that we're the only ones who can perceive that things are > worse than they once were? Either that or the Curmudgeonly Gene kicks in after a certain age (perhaps 60). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vance at ikickass.org Mon Mar 11 06:43:11 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? In-Reply-To: <3C8C2825.1AEFD946@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading > anything but Windows on this computer!! No idea. However, Microchannel machines usually use a separate bootdisk under Linux. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 11 07:20:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: procom cdrom controller available Message-ID: <15500.44827.123850.328973@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. I have a Procom Technology 8-bit ISA bus CDROM controller available for the cost of shipping. Anybody interested? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 11 07:34:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: ID these TRW ICs Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020311083401.007ffe90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have a good way to identify ICs made by TRW? I've searched the net and found almost nothing. I'd like to id the LSICs shown in this picture . The smaller ones are marked TRW 8429/AC 1016J5C8 and the bigger one is marked TRW TD1007J1. The big one is very impressive looking (the pictures don't do it justice). Not only due to it's size but it also has gold leads and a black anodized heatsink with gold lettering epoxied(?) to the top of it and it just looks impressive. These are on a Multibus card that was part of the same system that had the Geometric Array Processors. I think this may have been part of the I/O subsystem that passed data to and from the GAPP. Joe From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Mar 11 14:27:24 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines Message-ID: >Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they >collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the >point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? >Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when >nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. As many other have said here, I try to hang on to only those machines that I can put to use. One exception would be the various SBCs I own, but you could argue that they are useful for learning about the procerssor they host. Also, like others, nobody is really impressed by my collection. I don't do it for them, I do it for me.... My "lab" is in the finished basement of our new-to-us house (and leaking into the garage). The previous owners left brown shag rug and paneling, so it has that nice '70's look, to match the computers! :-) One friend of my wife, whose husband works for the government, remarked upon coming down the stairs and seeing my stuff scattered about: "This looks like one of those places my husband goes into where the bust the guy for having all his kiddie porn stashed on his computers". She laughed, I didn't... :-( Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 11 08:57:40 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: 990 In-Reply-To: <3C8C2451.4020108@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: I saw one box of software that supposedly allowed interconnections with ordinary PC's. I also saw some materials that suggested there was a SCSI bus on at least one machine. One was running, the ogher considered a parts source. there was some sort of SMD type drive, but it had had a head crash and wasn't in use. On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote: > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I think they are both variations of the 990/12. One may be a model 8. I > > think one is a 13 slot chassis, the other a 17. > > > > I have a /10 in a 13 slot chassis. ~512K installed, several more 192 and > 256K MEM A boards, and controllers for DS10 and DS50 drives, 911 VDT's > (have 3 terminals), COMM, EIA, CI402, Some are spares, plus I have 202 > modems, assorted extra cables, etc, so if you run across anything you > need but don't have, give me a holler. I may have it. > > The drives and cartridges need a lot of work before I even think about > trying to spin them up. Unfortunately they haven't been stored in the > best of conditions. I'm not set up to do that myself, yet, and the only > man I know hereabouts with the know-how and tools to clean, refurbish, > test and align old SMD drives and disk packs isn't ready to get into > restoring old gear just yet. > > In the meantime, I'm looking at the boot ROM source from Kossow's site > for ways to hack in from a PC or maybe the 990/1 I have. Need to find an > FD800/1000 or other SA800 series floppy subsytem for the latter, though. > And software. Or I might dump the boot ROM on it and write/port some, at > least a monitor/assembler/linker/loader. I'm going to be doing some > 99xx(x) assembly here anyway. > > By all means please keep us posted on the progress. I'd be interested in > knowing what software you got with the 990's, too. > > Thanks, > jbdigriz > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 09:24:46 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Getting Wyse at Goodwill? Message-ID: Spotted these in the local (Washington, PA 15301) Goodwill: 1. Wyse 55 model 901237-01 w/ keyboard 840358-01 Dirty but not beat up. Green screen. No burn. Checks out OK in Local. $8.50 2. Wyse 150 900983-1 w/ keyboard 840358-01 Dirty but not beat up. Green screen. No burn. Checks out OK in Local. $8.50 If anyone is interested in one or both of these, LMK via private email to make arrangements. They're still at Goodwill. I would have bought them, but I have enough already for my own uses. Bill From jrice at texoma.net Mon Mar 11 09:34:57 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines References: Message-ID: <3C8CCEA1.9060806@texoma.net> All of my machines have to useable or I don't keep them. If I'm not going to use them, they get sold or given away to someone who will. I don't have a problem with someone who collects only for value appreciation or as a trophy piece, but that isn't my style. Just like I admire someone like Tony who relishes digging into component level repair, that doesn't really appeal to me. My thing is finding a system that I like and want to really "use", collecting all of the accessory bits and option cards, finding and installing the OS and application software and finally using it on a daily basis. I could do everything that I do on my old machines in a new Microsoft XP box at 2.2ghz and that's what I use at work. But I appreciate the old machines that I could never afford when I was younger and enjoy using them now. James http://home.texoma.net/~jrice You mean you're supposed to read the manual first? Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they >> collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the >> point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? >> Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when >> nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. > > > As many other have said here, I try to hang on to only those machines > that I can put to use. One exception would be the various SBCs I own, > but you could argue that they are useful for learning about the > procerssor they host. > > Also, like others, nobody is really impressed by my collection. I > don't do it for them, I do it for me.... > > My "lab" is in the finished basement of our new-to-us house (and > leaking into the garage). The previous owners left brown shag rug and > paneling, so it has that nice '70's look, to match the computers! :-) > One friend of my wife, whose husband works for the government, > remarked upon coming down the stairs and seeing my stuff scattered > about: "This looks like one of those places my husband goes into where > the bust the guy for having all his kiddie porn stashed on his > computers". She laughed, I didn't... :-( > > Rich B. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > . > From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 09:54:32 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: HP 9000 Series 200 documentation lot, almost free... Message-ID: 1. 3-ring notebook containing: BASIC Programming Techniques with Extensions 2.0 for the HP series 200 Computers Manual Part No. 09826-90011 Copyright 1982 Darn close to mint condition 2. Plastic spiral bound photocopy of: Basic 3.0 Utilities Library for the HP series 200 Computers Manual Part No. 098613-10020 Copyright 1984 As good as the day it was copied. 3. Wire spiral bound pocket reference: Basic 2.0 Condensed Reference with Extensions 2.1 Manual Part No. 09826-90051 First Edition July, 1983 Cover torn 1.25" along spiral at bottom, a name lightly written across the top of the cover and at the top of the title page. Otherwise VGC. Cost: Free + Actual shipping, although donations are appreciated. Bill http://www.swtpc.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 11 10:02:02 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? In-Reply-To: <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> References: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <02Mar15.185041est.119672@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >http://www.pdp11.org/20th/ > >(the guy sent me pictures this morning) That's pretty cool...I like the black BA23 case Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 10:05:01 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:16 2005 Subject: Users manual, IEM 1mb mem board for HP 9000 series 200/300, Free+ Message-ID: 1 MBYTE MEMORY BOARD For HP 9000 Series 200/300 computers User's Manual September 1986 Publication #: 040986 Manual Part# 9837257 IEM, Inc. Fort Collins, CO Plastic Spiral bound, 22 pages incl. covers; configuration, dip switch settings, etc. VGC Cost: Free + Actual shipping, although donations are appreciated. Bill From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Mar 11 10:28:14 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? In-Reply-To: <3C8C322E.AB5B7EE4@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Mar 10, 2002 11:27:26 pm" Message-ID: <200203111628.IAA10066@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Yeah, but I don't have Slackware, I have Redhat :-) I think Redhat is > supposed to work too, but I don't know how. I am trying it now, and I > get an error, "Failed to read /modules/module-info" when access the > cd-rom. It's Redhat 7.0 What brand CD-ROM drive, and how old is it? Older drives may have problems accessing large CD-ROMS. Are you booting directly from CD-ROM, or are you booting a floppy? eric From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Mar 11 10:29:12 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? In-Reply-To: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 10:18:36PM -0500, Megan wrote: > Pictures, please... > Megan http://www.pdp11.org/20th/ (the guy sent me pictures this morning) spiffy. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From dittman at dittman.net Mon Mar 11 10:31:11 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: 990 In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Mar 11, 2002 09:57:40 AM Message-ID: <200203111631.g2BGVB115486@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I saw one box of software that supposedly allowed interconnections with > ordinary PC's. I also saw some materials that suggested there was a SCSI > bus on at least one machine. One was running, the ogher considered a > parts source. there was some sort of SMD type drive, but it had had a > head crash and wasn't in use. I used to work on a 990. Isn't the PC software a TI914 emulator with file transfer capabilities? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 10:34:20 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Matrox STD-ALPHA VDC for Mostek MD-STD-Z80 Bus manual, Free+ Message-ID: And finally: An almost mint manual: STD-ALPHA Variable Format Video Display Controller MANUAL NO. 159-A50-06/0 17/5/84 Matrox Electronic Systems Ltd. "Direct Plug-in for Mostek MD-STD-Z80 BUS" 66 pages 1.0 Specs 2.0 Function Description (2 pages) 3.0 Initial Check-Out 4.0 Software 5.0 Straps 6.0 Circuit Description (4 pages) 7.0 MCH-01 Character Generator 8.0 Read/Write Timing 9.0 Pin Assignment 10.0 Maintenance and Warranty 11.0 Ordering Information 12.0 C.R.T.C. Data Sheets (27 pages on HD6845S CRT Controller) 13.0 Schematics and Diagrams (4 pages) Cost: Free + Actual shipping, although donations are appreciated. Please contact me off list. Bill From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Mar 11 10:47:26 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A700@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Nothing yet ... this was from the 60's. :) > The B205 was a popular movie/TV computer and here is picture of > one in the Bat Cave and other places. > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/B205/onscreen.html And Time Tunnel, although Sage parts may have been more prominent: http://neolase.lasers.org/TimeTunnel/Towers/Towers.shtml -dq From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 11 10:57:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? In-Reply-To: <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 10:18:36PM -0500, Megan wrote: > > Pictures, please... > > Megan > > http://www.pdp11.org/20th/ > Tres kewl. Doc From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Mar 11 11:02:49 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: ID these TRW ICs References: <3.0.6.32.20020311083401.007ffe90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101c1c91e$938d5700$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The TRW TD1007J1 looks almost the same as my TRW TDC 1010 which is a hardware multiplier chip that can multiply two 8-bit values to one 16 bit value in about 100 nSec IIRC. They can get a bit warm while operating, hence the cooling plate ........ I'll be on the lookout for more data. Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: ID these TRW ICs > Does anyone have a good way to identify ICs made by TRW? I've searched > the net and found almost nothing. I'd like to id the LSICs shown in this > picture . The smaller ones are > marked TRW 8429/AC 1016J5C8 and the bigger one is marked TRW TD1007J1. > The big one is very impressive looking (the pictures don't do it justice). > Not only due to it's size but it also has gold leads and a black anodized > heatsink with gold lettering epoxied(?) to the top of it and it just looks > impressive. These are on a Multibus card that was part of the same system > that had the Geometric Array Processors. I think this may have been part of > the I/O subsystem that passed data to and from the GAPP. > > Joe > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Mar 11 11:32:47 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A381@MAIL10> Sellam: Are you planning for VCFE 2.0? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:49 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: name that computer On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'm not that old :-) > > Of course the 50's had there problems too, but they are generally > portrayed as being quite wholesome. I wasn't around, but I suspect they > were. It was probably backlash from WW2. As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things were better in my day". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Mar 11 11:33:48 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: Message-ID: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> Doc wrote: > On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > >>In a message dated 3/10/2002 10:53:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>fernande@internet1.net writes: >> >><< Will factory Redhat work with MicroChannel? I'm having trouble loading >> anything but Windows on this computer!! >> >> >>ive heard that slackware will. >> > > Debian will. I don't know about Slackware. Along about v4.0, Slack > got to be more headache than it was worth. > > Doc > > > Never tried to put any of them on a Microchannel machine. They should all work, though. This case sounds like a bad cable, or controller, or a drive or burner that needs cleaning maybe? Or maybe a problem with the media? Most of my production machines are running Slackware. Try out Slackware 8.0 sometime. If anything, the newer Slackwares have been more and more simple to install. Do remove relevant pkgs and install the slackware-current updates to cover some security vulns that have been found in most linux and unix distro's since last year. If you want to simplify or guify configuring and administering servers and daemons in a non-invasive manner, install Webmin, which is not included with Slackware. Speaking of Slackware, I did my first install from floppies made from images from NOPV10. My copy of that CD got trashed along the way, so I'm looking for a good source of old shareware, PD, and technical CD titles, especially now that Walnut Creek, either as a company or as a property, seems to have disappeared into thin air, along with the ftp archive. If anyone has any suggestions, please post them here. This is topical, since the CD's I'm thinking of originated in the late '80s, when large numbers were still dialing up BBS'es over Telenet/PC-Pursuit/Tymnet via X.25 switches running on PDP-10's and the like, or chatting and sharing files on dial-up or X.25 connected online services running on VAXen, Primes, and such. There just was no Internet for us unwashed masses back then, unless you used the facilities of a big corp or university. And it seems that this stuff, user-developed software from that era, is not just off the Internet radar, but in danger of sliding off the screen of historians, collectors, and hobbyists, as well. I think it is useful to make sure that it remains available for people who get hold of old machines with little or no software installed. jbdigriz From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Mar 11 11:46:44 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A382@MAIL10> Oops...that was supposed to be for Sellam directly. -----Original Message----- From: Cini, Richard [mailto:RCini@congressfinancial.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:33 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: OT: name that computer Sellam: Are you planning for VCFE 2.0? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:49 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: name that computer On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'm not that old :-) > > Of course the 50's had there problems too, but they are generally > portrayed as being quite wholesome. I wasn't around, but I suspect they > were. It was probably backlash from WW2. As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things were better in my day". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Mar 11 11:47:33 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: 990 References: Message-ID: <3C8CEDB5.4040701@dragonsweb.org> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I saw one box of software that supposedly allowed interconnections with > ordinary PC's. I also saw some materials that suggested there was a SCSI > bus on at least one machine. One was running, the ogher considered a > parts source. there was some sort of SMD type drive, but it had had a > head crash and wasn't in use. > Probably a Western Automation SCSI subsystem; it seems to have been the most common or only one available. I'd be interested in finding out more about that software. There is a DNIO suite available for the TI S1505 I have, but I think it requires ethernet, which I don't have for the 990, and a still very expensive license and dongle update on the Unix box. (The S1505 uses a hardware encoded key on a plug-in slot on the motherboard. ) In the meantime, I think I'm just going to break down and punch in my own boot loader from the front panel. :-) Between the docs I have, and what Kossow has online, I have enough to work with now. Still, like I said, please keep us posted, and let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks, jbdigriz From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 12:04:41 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Users manual, IEM 1mb mem board for HP 9000 series 200/300, Free+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gone also: -> Subject: Users manual, IEM 1mb mem board for HP 9000 series 200/300, -> Free+ Bill From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 12:04:56 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP 9000 Series 200 documentation lot, almost free... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All gone: -> 1. 3-ring notebook containing: -> 2. Plastic spiral bound photocopy of: -> 3. Wire spiral bound pocket reference: Bill From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 12:06:58 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer References: Message-ID: <3C8CF242.C88B39CF@internet1.net> I'm not taking about curmudgeons, I'm talking about the generally accepted view by most everyone, including people that weren't around then. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > > As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large > population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things > were better in my day". > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 11 12:12:39 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Yahoo Free Listing Day on Tuesday Message-ID: <3C8CF397.A45BE69@rain.org> Just a quick note to let everyone know that Yahoo is having a free listing day on Tuesday. I plan on putting a number of items there up for auction that might be of interest to listmembers, and will post the URL tomorrow. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 12:12:41 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3C8CF399.9AE796DB@internet1.net> The only difference in the hardware setup is that I added an Adaptec SCSI card, since I don't have a Linux driver for my Future Domain card. The HD is on the FD, and the CD is on the Adaptec. RH doesn't complain about the HD at all, only the CD. Also, I've installed RH from this media before, although it's been about 6 months. I'm confused.... I suppose I could try my other Adaptec card, but I'd have to open it.... it's still sealed. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > Never tried to put any of them on a Microchannel machine. They should > all work, though. This case sounds like a bad cable, or controller, or a > drive or burner that needs cleaning maybe? Or maybe a problem with the > media? From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Mar 11 12:13:31 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OpenSTEP for VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AD8@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > a copy of 3.1. I just haven't found the hardware combo to run it. > I still don't know where I got this, but I found tarball & README. > It's AfterStep, with a title & readme touting it as "OpenSTEP for > Linux". Somebody's idea of a joke? No, somebody just probably forgot to check their facts. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 12:18:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <200203111628.IAA10066@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3C8CF4D8.EE2F9D13@internet1.net> I'm booting from a floppy. It's a Sony, probably a 2x or 4x. I don't know when it was made. That gets me thinking a bit...... The drive is good, and the media is good, but maybe not good together. When I installed RH last time, it was on my AMD K6-2, and that has a much newer Teac cd-rom drive. Maybe I'll have to install my CD-RW in the external case, and try that. That's not very old, and should read anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > What brand CD-ROM drive, and how old is it? Older drives may have problems > accessing large CD-ROMS. Are you booting directly from CD-ROM, or are you > booting a floppy? > > eric From roosmcd at dds.nl Mon Mar 11 12:18:17 2002 From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP series 80 In-Reply-To: <200203111659.g2BGxtA58273@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200203111659.g2BGxtA58273@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <1015870697.3c8cf4e9b53c2@webmail.dds.nl> This weekend I picked up a HP 9915A computer (rackmount HP-85) with 2 HP-IB, serial and BCD card. I've also got the manuals for the expansion cards and a manual for a HP-85. I haven't got the tapes and the keyboard. Does anyone have the pin-out for the connectors on the back? There is a keyboard and a control (=com?) port on the back, but I don't know what I should connect to those. I tried connecting a terminal to the serial card, but there wasn't any output. It gives an error message on the composite video output, so I guess the unit is working OK. And the last question, what are those unlabelled keys on the front of the unit? Are these softkeys like on other Hp equipment? thanks, Michiel From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 12:19:57 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth? References: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3C8CF54D.53D4B997@internet1.net> For being a Special Anniversary edition, it sure is scratched up. Nice looking otherwise, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bill Bradford wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 10:18:36PM -0500, Megan wrote: > > Pictures, please... > > Megan > > http://www.pdp11.org/20th/ > > (the guy sent me pictures this morning) > > spiffy. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 12:25:11 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100SX laptop Message-ID: My local Salvation Army store has a Toshiba 3100SX laptop for $8.00 if anyone wants it. It is the laptop, and a toshiba carry bag for it. There was no power supply that I saw, or manuals. Also, on the back there is a spot for what looks like a modem (don't remember exactly what it said, something about phone interface though)... but other than the cover plate, whatever is supposed to be installed in that spot is missing (there is a whole in the plate, and you can see inside to where something should be). It was there as of Saturday, and they are closed on Sunday's, so it is probably still there. If someone wants it, just let me know, I'll grab it for them and ship it out. Obviously if you want it, you cover actual purchase cost ($7.99 + 6% sales tax) and shipping... I'm not interested in making money off it (but if you want to slip me a buck for picking it up, that's always nice). -chris From mhstein at canada.com Mon Mar 11 12:38:24 2002 From: mhstein at canada.com (mhstein@canada.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: 990 Message-ID: <20020311183824.11278.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net> Either of you guys want a copy of the 990 Computer Family Systems Handbook? mike -------Original Message---------- Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:28:17 -0500 From: "James B. DiGriz" Subject: Re: 990 Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I think they are both variations of the 990/12. One may be a model 8. I > think one is a 13 slot chassis, the other a 17. > I have a /10 in a 13 slot chassis. ~512K installed, several more 192 and __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Mar 11 12:40:43 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> <3C8CF399.9AE796DB@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C8CFA2B.8070407@dragonsweb.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > The only difference in the hardware setup is that I added an Adaptec > SCSI card, since I don't have a Linux driver for my Future Domain card. > The HD is on the FD, and the CD is on the Adaptec. RH doesn't complain > about the HD at all, only the CD. Also, I've installed RH from this > media before, although it's been about 6 months. I'm confused.... I > suppose I could try my other Adaptec card, but I'd have to open it.... > it's still sealed. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > >>Never tried to put any of them on a Microchannel machine. They should >>all work, though. This case sounds like a bad cable, or controller, or a >>drive or burner that needs cleaning maybe? Or maybe a problem with the >>media? >> > > What model FD? jbdigriz From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Mar 11 13:11:13 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: [lcolautti@libero.it: Two PDP-11 in Italy] Message-ID: <20020311191113.GO14293@mrbill.net> Contact him directly if interested. ----- Forwarded message from Lorenzo Colautti ----- From: "Lorenzo Colautti" To: Subject: Two PDP-11 in Italy Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:38:13 +0100 Hello! I have two fully-functional PDP11-45 systems, with some spare parts, documentation, tests, ecc. But in Italy I was unable to find any person or organisation interested in this. Can you help me? I don't wont throw them! Lorenzo Colautti colautti.lorenzo@enel.it Endesa Italia s.r.l. Monfalcone (GO) ITALY ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Mar 11 13:14:19 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: 990 References: <20020311183824.11278.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <3C8D020B.7060803@dragonsweb.org> mhstein@canada.com wrote: > Either of you guys want a copy of the > 990 Computer Family Systems Handbook? > > mike > I have PDF from Al, but I'd like a copy. How many do you have, and what would you want for one? Feel free to respond off-list. Thanks, jbdigriz From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 11 13:15:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > As long as people continue to age, there will always result a large > population of curmudgeons who will lament their perception that "things > were better in my day". So,... you're saying that we're the only ones who can perceive that things are worse than they once were? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Mar 11 13:24:16 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: problems with INITIALIZE MUC6: (TK50) References: <3C8C095F.7000204@aurora.regenstrief.org> <075e01c1c89f$3e594e80$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3C8D0460.2050101@aurora.regenstrief.org> Geoff, thanks for your reply, but I don't want this to get down the TK50 vs. TK70 path. (I will even hold back my beliefs about whether CompacTape-II media is physically different from CompacTape media.) I do have a TK50 drive hanging off the TBK70 controller, which supposedly works (and it certainly does work to an extent.) I need to write a TK50 tape because I don't have a TQK70 controller for the uVAX-II for which I need this diagnostic tape that I'm trying to write. Any other ideas what might be wrong there? Or is it possible to increase the retry counter for VMS tape writing? NetBSD obviously gets by with those media errors because it simply retries it more often(?). thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Mar 11 13:43:26 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3C86681B.C8CDFD4C@Vishay.com> <004601c1c575$60057360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3C8D08DE.CDBE8D81@Vishay.com> John, the expedition was successful: I have the schematics. Now the problem is that I only have an A4 size scanner, so I cannot provide full pages, but I can pick out the important part from the center of each page. There are three pages in this part of the print set: 1 - component locations 2 - keypad and LEDs 3 - display There are other parts, dealing with, e.g., the UNIBUS board where the 8008 processor lives (not the ROM listings, however). Let me know if you want some of this stuff, too. I will send three b/w scans (ranging from 33 to 41kB in size) directly to you. If anybody else might want them, please let me know. Too bad they won't qualify for uploading somewhere on the net due to being incomplete. Anybody want to donate a larger scanner? ;-) Regards, Andreas John Allain wrote: > > > we're talking about the programmer's console that has ... > > ADR", "DIS ADR", "EXAM", "DEP", "BOOT", "INIT" etc? > > Most assuredly. > > > I might try to find the docs during the weekend > > TIA as they say. > I have a console sitting here with nothing to do. > > John A. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From whdawson at localisps.net Mon Mar 11 13:51:48 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100SX laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -> It is the laptop, and a toshiba carry bag for it. There was no power -> supply that I saw, or manuals. Doesn't need one. Uses standard 120vac power cord. -> Also, on the back there is a spot for what looks like a modem (don't -> remember exactly what it said, something about phone interface -> though)... -> but other than the cover plate, whatever is supposed to be installed in -> that spot is missing (there is a whole in the plate, and you can see -> inside to where something should be). If someone on this list ends up owning this, LMK. I have a spare modem for that empty slot. Free + postage. Bill From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 11 14:05:46 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: 8T01 Nixie Decoder/Driver Information Needed References: <20020311052519.83683.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C8D0E1A.4CEE6041@rain.org> I can do a scan, but the pinout is easier :). Pin 1 D in Pin 2 B in Pin 3 C in Pin 4 2 Out Pin 5 3 out Pin 6 7 out Pin 7 6 out Pin 8 Ground Pin 9 4 Out Pin 10 5 out Pin 11 1 Out Pin 12 0 Out Pin 13 8 Out Pin 14 9 Out Pin 15 A in Pin 16 Vcc Loboyko Steve wrote: > > I've seen this chip at a very good price, but no docs, > at an electronics mail order place. The more > (relatively) recent TTL chips are rare and expensive > if available at all. A scan or pinout would be > appreciated! > > --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > It is shown in the 1972 Signetics digital/linear/mos > > data book but does > > not appear in the 1974 edition. Hi Output - 68v > > min., Lo Output -2.75v > > max. What did you need to know? > > > > > Bill Richman wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have any information (ideally, data > > sheets) on the 8T01 > > > 16-pin DIP Nixie Decoder/Driver IC? I had no luck > > with the IC Master > > > online or a Google search... > > > > > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon Mar 11 14:10:55 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: DEC: Checked but not Mated. In-Reply-To: <006c01c1908c$32cb73e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <180B5834-352C-11D6-9F91-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> John, I think I promised to send you some boot disks for the DecMate-III but never had time to make them. Is that correct? Do you still need them? On another note, I believe that you expressed an interest in the Pro-350 and Pro-380 that Allison Parent was giving away. Is that correct? I picked them both up today and was able to get the Pro-380 to boot POS but the Pro-350 won't boot. Allison says it has Venix installed but I just get a picture of a diskette when I try to boot it which suggests to me that it can't find an operating system on the RD-51. Do you have any interest in the Pro-350 in this condition? Do you have any idea what might be wrong with it? The two octal numbers displayed on the screen are 010377/177776 with the 01 in the first number highlighted and the entire second number highlighted. Does that mean anything to you? Thanks, David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 12:13 PM, John Allain wrote: > Sorry about the absurd title. > > I have a DecMate-III that I never checked out until Yesterday. > The parts are easy to get: standard Dec monitor and kbd. > It POST's OK to an enhanced text "Decmate" screen. period. > Sooo.. > Where can I find RX50/images for O/S of same? (OS278? > or some such). Anybody have CP/M for it? Anybody know > a way to hack into the auto-test or do I need a diskette for > that too? > > John A. > not too many Q's I hope. > > > From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Mar 11 14:26:31 2002 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Top collectable machines In-Reply-To: <3C8CCEA1.9060806@texoma.net> Message-ID: > >> Out of curiosity, how many here care whether or not the machines they > >> collect are considered "collectable" or "top collectable?" Isn't the > >> point of collecting these machines to have fun toys to play with? > >> Collecting was more fun, and the machines were easier to find, when > >> nearly everyone considered them worthless a decade or so ago. I am a lot more selective now than I was a couple of years ago -partly because I quickly filled my limited space, and as I learned more about different systems I realized that some were more interesting to me than others. I mostly began collecting because I was curious about old computers that I had never seen or worked on but also because I enjoyed the thrill of the hunt. The fun that I have with these old computers mostly comes from repairing and restoring them, and hunting for additional items that would make them complete (manuals, software, etc.) Once I've cleaned and repaired them, I add them to my web page as reference for others, and perhaps as a bit of trophy display for myself as well. Once I've done that, I am usually open to the idea of trading or selling them... but not in every case. My friends and family couldn't care less about my old computers, except that they know that it's a hobby that I enjoy so they at least try to be excited for me when I tell them about a new find. I'm also better about self policing, which makes the collecting part easier on them. I collect purely for my own enjoyment but I don't mind bragging a bit sometimes to other collectors who DO care. E. From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 14:27:06 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100SX laptop Message-ID: >-> It is the laptop, and a toshiba carry bag for it. There was no power >-> supply that I saw, or manuals. > >Doesn't need one. Uses standard 120vac power cord. Humm... maybe I didn't pay enough attention (I wasn't really that interested in it myself), but I could have sworn their was a port marked DC and it was a small 3 pin jack that looked alot like the old Hayes modem power jacks (squarish with the edges cut off). But maybe in my quick glance I either looked at the wrong port, or just had a brain fart at what I was looking at. -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Mar 11 14:32:44 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it? References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3C86681B.C8CDFD4C@Vishay.com> <004601c1c575$60057360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3C8D08DE.CDBE8D81@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3C8D146C.C5A3CBE1@jetnet.ab.ca> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > There are other parts, dealing with, e.g., the UNIBUS board where the > 8008 processor lives (not the ROM listings, however). Let me know if you > want some of this stuff, too. The programer's console could count as classic computer on its own with the 8008 inside. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 14:34:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: does anyone know if it is safe to yank the logic board from an HP LaserJet II and stick it into an Apple Laserwriter II NT. I know they are the same printer engine, with just minorly different features (Apple has no font slots for instance). I have a pseduo broken HP and a fully working Apple, but I want the parallel interface. So rather than buying a kit to fix the paper pickup problem the HP has, I was thinking of just swapping logic boards. Is this possible? or will I blow something? (I'd rather not just blindly experiment, since I am running short of working laser printers, and can't afford to trash these) -chris From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Mon Mar 11 14:58:05 2002 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: DEC: Checked but not Mated. In-Reply-To: <180B5834-352C-11D6-9F91-0030657A6370@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: Sorry. This was supposed to be a private message. From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 11 15:00:26 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT References: Message-ID: <009501c1c93f$c6700fc0$4735ff0a@cvendel> Interesting question Chris.... Its been a while since I've been under the hood of either, so some of the basic questions: Will the HPLJ2 board fit into the slot underneath the LW2NT? Does it have the same connector? The engines are the same, its just the connections and physical mounting guides & size for the controller that matters... I took the Apple LW2NT certification back in 90 and while a great course, they never went so indepth as to list out the actual pinouts of the connectors so you have to hope that someone out there may have the technical schematics of the LW2NT and somewhere else you can locate the same on the LJ2. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT > does anyone know if it is safe to yank the logic board from an HP > LaserJet II and stick it into an Apple Laserwriter II NT. I know they are > the same printer engine, with just minorly different features (Apple has > no font slots for instance). > > I have a pseduo broken HP and a fully working Apple, but I want the > parallel interface. So rather than buying a kit to fix the paper pickup > problem the HP has, I was thinking of just swapping logic boards. > > Is this possible? or will I blow something? (I'd rather not just blindly > experiment, since I am running short of working laser printers, and can't > afford to trash these) > > -chris > > > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Mar 11 15:05:39 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem References: Message-ID: <3C8D1C23.ADE0ABC8@bluewin.ch> Tom Leffingwell schrieb: > > Sometimes its just 6 and 8 that come on, other times 5 comes on as well. > > Thanks, > > Tom > 6 and 8 on : "indeterminate density" . Maybe the floppydisc itself is marginal ? 5, 6 and 8 : "invalid drive status during seek" Give me a fax number off-list and I'll fax you the complete LED-decoding list. Does anyone have a copy of the DSD440 diagnostics disc ? Rgds, Jos From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Mar 11 15:18:04 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: eBay Purchase Message-ID: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> Help - What am I doing wrong? I sent the following response (SEE AFTER DOUBLE LINES of ======) to a previous e-mail in respect of auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2006598832 This time he did not even reply. Am I being overly cautious is making sure that the correct customs documents are used? Previously, we have agreed on the Shipping, Handling and insurance to be $ 24.45 and that he would ship to Canada, but for some reason which I can't understand, he seems to think that using the GREEN CN-22 or a COMMERCIAL INVOICE is not a reasonable requirement. While the shipping seems a bit high, I did not quibble and agreed to pay what was asked. His Positive feedback seems satisfactory, so what could the problem be? His name and address are: Bobert1959@aol.com Bob Bruns 6334 Alta Oaks Dr Garland, TX 75043 However, this information seems to not be traceable. Is there anyone at eBay whom I can contact? Any other suggestions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine MY RESPONSE TO HIS E-MAIL FOLLOWS: Bob Burns does not reply. ================================================ ================================================ >Bobert1959@aol.com wrote: > the terms of the auction are decided prior to the end. No other terms will be > accpeted. The shipping amount has agreed on. If for some reason the auction > terms are unacceptable. I will sell the item to the next highest bidder. Jerome Fine replies: If everything in this e-mail is satisfactory, please respond with "Confirmed" as the first word in the body of your reply. Also, please add if you wish me to prepare the COMMERCIAL INVOICE for you. Your reply seems to suggest that by requesting that you comply with shipping requirements at port of entry into Canada (and probably any country - although I am not familiar with regulations elsewhere), I am changing the terms of the auction. I hope that this reply will help you to understand that the terms of the auction are not part of the requirements for shipping the drive and that I have nothing to do with these requirements. In addition, if you read my last e-mail carefully, all that you have been asked to do is to correctly provide the value of the item to the customs officials in Canada. When a package is sent via USPS, then I understand that a GREEN CN-22 form is used. However, since I am not aware of exactly how USPS handles air shipments, I may be incorrect. In that case, customs officials in Canada may require a "Commercial Invoice" which is filled out (based on my limited understanding) as a simple paper with: =================================== COMMERCIAL INVOICE Your Name, Address and phone contact number My Name, Address and phone contact number Value of the Drive: $ US 11.50 =================================== It is that simple. I don't set the requirements. Here is my part if you need to send a Commercial Invoice: Fine Services & Co. Ltd. PST Exempt - 1531 2240 2 Inglis Gate Willowdale, Ontario, Canada M2R 3G3 Attention: Jerome Fine (416) 667-8233 Please note that ALL FIVE lines are essential for the complete address and contact phone number. In addition, ALL FIVE lines are essential on the outside of the box and on any shipping document. I will include this information on a sheet of paper which I will include with the money order and the auction Item Number 2006598832. All you will need to do if a Commercial Invoice is required is to add your contact phone number to your name and address plus the actual value of the eBay auction. Again, I don't set the shipping arrangements - they are imposed by Canadian Customs at the port of entry. I you wish, I can prepare the COMMERCIAL INVOICE for you - all you will need to do is add your contact phone number to the paper. I anticipate that you don't wish to violate the requirements that Customs Canada imposes. I certainly don't think that a COMMERCIAL INVOICE is a difficult requirement since it takes less than a minute to fill out. All of our e-mails have certainly taken much longer. Certainly I have never encountered anyone who has ever refused to provide a COMMERCIAL INVOICE to Canadian Customs since all of the information is normally available in any case, just not consolidated onto the form which they insist on - although I agree it is a pain in the posterior if you ask my opinion. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Mar 11 15:21:14 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: WTB TU58-FX Message-ID: <3C8D1FCA.191518D2@idirect.com> I have been looking for a table top TU-58 with two drives without success. Might anyone have the box for a TU58-FX which does not work, but I may then be able to find the drives separately? From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 11 15:32:08 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote: > > Oops...that was supposed to be for Sellam directly. > > So what - it is a good question. Well, OK. I am not 100% decided but am fairly certain that VCF East 2.0 won't be happening this summer. I am spread too thin currently (read: "low on cash and time") and don't want to get myself in trouble. I need to focus on VCF 5.0 (which is now officially moved to this year), which means that trying to do VCF East 2.0 this summer would conflict in terms of money and time. Don't fret though, I do plan to move VCF East to the early spring timeframe. This will give me enough time between events to make sure each gets the attention and resources they deserve to make them fun and worth atending. So bascially this means look for VCF East 2.0 sometime next March or April. I realize this may be a long time to wait but it will be worth it. It will give me the time needed to book great speakers and get more exhibitors and vendors together. I will also be scouting out a new location, maybe somewhere in Boston proper, or possibly in New York. I will be sending out an official announcement on VCF 5.0, VCF East 2.0, and the forthcoming VCF Open House (coming soon) sometime tonight. VCF 5.0 is going to be very, very cool. In the meantime, VCF Europa 3.0 is still happening this April 27-28 in Munich, Germany! http://www.vintage.org/vcfe Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 15:51:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: >Will the HPLJ2 board fit into the slot underneath the LW2NT? >Does it have the same connector? Humm... I didn't get that far as actually pulling the board. Although, this whole printer has been one slap my head experience. I had a printer die that was hooked up to an NT box to act as a network print spooler (well, actually, the printer works fine, but it needs a new drum and developer kit $200 for the pair, and that isn't worth it for this printer). So I bought the HP from the local salvation army store for $20. When I tried to use it, it was failing to pickup the paper... a new pickup kit is $30 (well worth it for the HP LJ2). But since I had the unused working Apple LW IINT, I figured I could just swap the mobo so I can use the parallel interface to reconnect to my NT spooler. Well... head slap #1... I don't need to replace the pickup rollers... I just needed to clean them, and use a little rubber rejuvenator... now it picks up like a charm. So I do the swap, get it all hooked up to my NT spooler, get everything working... and head into the office of the only computer that matters about printing to it... to find head slap #2... I changed the PC to a Mac last week and totally forgot.... that means I could have just used my Apple LW IINT with a quick and dirty LocalTalk connection! I didn't need to go thru all this buying and fixing and testing of the HP after all! (For the handful of PCs that also print to the printer, I can let them use the NT spooler over a serial connection, and just deal with the painfully slow print speed... the others only print 5 or 6 times a year anyway). So now, later this week... I will change the printer AGAIN, and go to the Apple LW IINT over Localtalk (probably dedicate an old Mac with ethernet to act as a Ethernet to Localtalk bridge). But at least I have a working HP LJ 2 to use elsewhere.... now to find a legal cassette tray for it. -chris From allain at panix.com Mon Mar 11 15:55:54 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: elobby on ebay References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> Message-ID: <00b601c1c947$84e5d3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I remember there being a thread about problems dealing with an ebay userid elobby. I have a lead on where that person moved to for anyone who has valid unresolved issues with that dealer. Available off list. John A. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Mar 11 16:00:56 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Punch Card Humor Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A709@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I ended up with one awhile back, but it's missing the drive belts for the > rollers. I'd be happy to try that trick out if someone knows where I can > buy the belts for it. A good place to start would be http://www.ncspearson.com -dq From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Mar 11 16:27:59 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT References: Message-ID: <00bb01c1c94c$00c91480$4735ff0a@cvendel> Whoa.... well, think of this as whole as a learning experience... an expensive one, but a learning experience nonetheless :-) (sorry for the dig.... but I've gone through the same thing in past projects, so I can sympathize with you) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 4:51 PM Subject: Re: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT > >Will the HPLJ2 board fit into the slot underneath the LW2NT? > >Does it have the same connector? > > Humm... I didn't get that far as actually pulling the board. > > Although, this whole printer has been one slap my head experience. > > I had a printer die that was hooked up to an NT box to act as a network > print spooler (well, actually, the printer works fine, but it needs a new > drum and developer kit $200 for the pair, and that isn't worth it for > this printer). > > So I bought the HP from the local salvation army store for $20. When I > tried to use it, it was failing to pickup the paper... a new pickup kit > is $30 (well worth it for the HP LJ2). But since I had the unused working > Apple LW IINT, I figured I could just swap the mobo so I can use the > parallel interface to reconnect to my NT spooler. > > Well... head slap #1... I don't need to replace the pickup rollers... I > just needed to clean them, and use a little rubber rejuvenator... now it > picks up like a charm. > > So I do the swap, get it all hooked up to my NT spooler, get everything > working... and head into the office of the only computer that matters > about printing to it... to find head slap #2... > > I changed the PC to a Mac last week and totally forgot.... that means I > could have just used my Apple LW IINT with a quick and dirty LocalTalk > connection! I didn't need to go thru all this buying and fixing and > testing of the HP after all! (For the handful of PCs that also print to > the printer, I can let them use the NT spooler over a serial connection, > and just deal with the painfully slow print speed... the others only > print 5 or 6 times a year anyway). > > So now, later this week... I will change the printer AGAIN, and go to the > Apple LW IINT over Localtalk (probably dedicate an old Mac with ethernet > to act as a Ethernet to Localtalk bridge). > > But at least I have a working HP LJ 2 to use elsewhere.... now to find a > legal cassette tray for it. > > -chris > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Mar 11 17:07:17 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A382@MAIL10> Message-ID: > Oops...that was supposed to be for Sellam directly. So what - it is a good question. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 11 17:21:21 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP series 80 In-Reply-To: <1015870697.3c8cf4e9b53c2@webmail.dds.nl> References: <200203111659.g2BGxtA58273@ns2.ezwind.net> <200203111659.g2BGxtA58273@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020311182121.0080c990@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Michiel, Nice find! I have a couple of these and ONE keyboard. It took me four years of serious searching to find it! AFIK this is the only keyboard around. They are EXTREMELY rare! The keyboard was a option, HP intended that users develope their SW on a HP 85 and then burn it into EPROM and run the 9915 from that OR store the program on tape in an Autost file and the 9915 would automaticly load it upon bootup (or reset). The tape approach is the easiest to use EXCEPT just about all the 9915 and HP 85 tape drive rollers have gone soft with age. The keyboard is a row and colume matrix. I've made a schematic of it. I'll try to find it but I'm not promising that I'll be able to. The "keyboard" connector is also used to output some status and control signals so be carefull if you start experimenting with it. I've been looking for a long time but I've only been able to find a couple of manuals for the 9915 and they're not very helpfull. Yes the softkeys are the same as the F keys on the HP 85. I'll try to find my 9915 docs and post more. Joe At 07:18 PM 3/11/02 +0100, you wrote: > This weekend I picked up a HP 9915A computer (rackmount HP-85) with 2 HP-IB, >serial and BCD card. I've also got the manuals for the expansion cards and a >manual for a HP-85. I haven't got the tapes and the keyboard. > > Does anyone have the pin-out for the connectors on the back? There is a >keyboard and a control (=com?) port on the back, but I don't know what I should >connect to those. I tried connecting a terminal to the serial card, but there >wasn't any output. It gives an error message on the composite video output, so >I guess the unit is working OK. And the last question, what are those >unlabelled keys on the front of the unit? Are these softkeys like on other Hp >equipment? > > thanks, > Michiel > From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Mar 11 17:21:47 2002 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Free stuff in OC, CA - Franklin Ace 1000 Message-ID: <20020311232147.94557.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Free stuff that isn't worth much! Operational Franklin Ace 1000 computer - no drives. Pick-up, or pay for delivery from Irvine, CA. Steve. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From rhb57 at vol.com Mon Mar 11 17:22:25 2002 From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll look and see if I have a legal - I have a box of LJ 2 and III trays, not sure if I have legals left though. Shipping to the C-U area from here is cheap and then a couple bucks for the tray would work. I need more space around here anyway. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris => Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:52 PM => To: Classic Computer => Subject: Re: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT => => => >Will the HPLJ2 board fit into the slot underneath the LW2NT? => >Does it have the same connector? => => Humm... I didn't get that far as actually pulling the board. => => Although, this whole printer has been one slap my head experience. => => I had a printer die that was hooked up to an NT box to act as a network => print spooler (well, actually, the printer works fine, but it => needs a new => drum and developer kit $200 for the pair, and that isn't worth it for => this printer). => => So I bought the HP from the local salvation army store for $20. When I => tried to use it, it was failing to pickup the paper... a new pickup kit => is $30 (well worth it for the HP LJ2). But since I had the => unused working => Apple LW IINT, I figured I could just swap the mobo so I can use the => parallel interface to reconnect to my NT spooler. => => Well... head slap #1... I don't need to replace the pickup rollers... I => just needed to clean them, and use a little rubber rejuvenator... now it => picks up like a charm. => => So I do the swap, get it all hooked up to my NT spooler, get everything => working... and head into the office of the only computer that matters => about printing to it... to find head slap #2... => => I changed the PC to a Mac last week and totally forgot.... that means I => could have just used my Apple LW IINT with a quick and dirty LocalTalk => connection! I didn't need to go thru all this buying and fixing and => testing of the HP after all! (For the handful of PCs that also print to => the printer, I can let them use the NT spooler over a serial connection, => and just deal with the painfully slow print speed... the others only => print 5 or 6 times a year anyway). => => So now, later this week... I will change the printer AGAIN, and => go to the => Apple LW IINT over Localtalk (probably dedicate an old Mac with ethernet => to act as a Ethernet to Localtalk bridge). => => But at least I have a working HP LJ 2 to use elsewhere.... now to find a => legal cassette tray for it. => => -chris => => => => From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 11 17:22:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:17 2005 Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC In-Reply-To: <3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 11, 2 01:32:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 170 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020311/4a6aaf56/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 11 17:33:55 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: ID these TRW ICs In-Reply-To: <005101c1c91e$938d5700$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020311083401.007ffe90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020311183355.0080bc70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Sipke. There are several Analog Devices DAC0808 and several logrithmic multipliers on the same card so that makes sense. Joe At 06:02 PM 3/11/02 +0100, you wrote: >The TRW TD1007J1 looks almost the same as my TRW TDC 1010 which is >a hardware multiplier chip that can multiply two 8-bit values to one 16 bit >value in >about 100 nSec IIRC. > >They can get a bit warm while operating, hence the cooling plate ........ > >I'll be on the lookout for more data. > >Sipke de Wal >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >http://xgistor.ath.cx >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Joe >To: >Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:34 PM >Subject: ID these TRW ICs > > >> Does anyone have a good way to identify ICs made by TRW? I've searched >> the net and found almost nothing. I'd like to id the LSICs shown in this >> picture . The smaller ones are >> marked TRW 8429/AC 1016J5C8 and the bigger one is marked TRW TD1007J1. >> The big one is very impressive looking (the pictures don't do it justice). >> Not only due to it's size but it also has gold leads and a black anodized >> heatsink with gold lettering epoxied(?) to the top of it and it just looks >> impressive. These are on a Multibus card that was part of the same system >> that had the Geometric Array Processors. I think this may have been part of >> the I/O subsystem that passed data to and from the GAPP. >> >> Joe >> > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 11 17:49:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Mar 11, 2 03:34:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020311/a2dc3c65/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 11 17:53:37 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: 990 In-Reply-To: <200203111631.g2BGVB115486@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: I am not sure, but I believe it is. We were give 911 and 924 terminals. On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I saw one box of software that supposedly allowed interconnections with > > ordinary PC's. I also saw some materials that suggested there was a SCSI > > bus on at least one machine. One was running, the ogher considered a > > parts source. there was some sort of SMD type drive, but it had had a > > head crash and wasn't in use. > > I used to work on a 990. Isn't the PC software a TI914 > emulator with file transfer capabilities? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From kshaddri at xtratyme.com Mon Mar 11 18:13:28 2002 From: kshaddri at xtratyme.com (Kelley Shaddrick) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith H89/Z90 In-Reply-To: <20020311234117.70BD227F09C@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311181129.00a0a4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Howdy folks, In what will probably be a futile attempt, I'm looking for an operating H89/Z90 computer. I had one that I mucked around with all the time a few years ago, and, in a moment of weakness gave it away. I'd like to find another. Any ideas? Thanks, Kelley From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Mar 11 18:18:40 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: 990 References: Message-ID: <3C8D4960.3070003@dragonsweb.org> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I am not sure, but I believe it is. We were give 911 and 924 terminals. > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > >>>I saw one box of software that supposedly allowed interconnections with >>>ordinary PC's. I also saw some materials that suggested there was a SCSI >>>bus on at least one machine. One was running, the ogher considered a >>>parts source. there was some sort of SMD type drive, but it had had a >>>head crash and wasn't in use. >>> >>I used to work on a 990. Isn't the PC software a TI914 >>emulator with file transfer capabilities? >>-- >>Eric Dittman >>dittman@dittman.net >>Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ >> >> > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > > It may be EM924, then, referenced in many termcap files. I've been looking for a copy for several years with no luck. jbdigriz From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Mar 11 18:21:36 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are > > replaceable, with cable) > > I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is... Maybe non-replaceable for someone who does not own a soldering iron? -Toth From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Mar 11 18:40:36 2002 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New DEC manual scan Message-ID: <20020311234117.70BD227F09C@mail.wzrd.com> For all who may be interested, I am starting to add scanned DEC manuals to my web page www.webwirz.com. They will all be in PDF format. The first one was added today and is the maint manual for the LA30 DECwriter. "Woo Hoo" I'll add a few more this week and then I have to give up the Kodak scanner to a different department at work for a while. Thanks, Brian. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Mar 11 19:30:41 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Geometric Array Processor board References: <3.0.6.32.20020310142807.007ef380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C8D5A41.AD107EA9@tiac.net> Having worked on parallel processors such as the Connection Machine, and more recently the Blue Ice Ultra boards, all I can say is... Freeking cool find! Joe wrote: > Does anyone know much about these? I picked up TWO of these cards today > and each one has 144 NCR45CG72 ICs on it. It looks ike EACH IC has 72 > microproccesors in it. That makes a total of 20,736 processors!!! Here's a > bit that I found while searching the net. IN FACT, these may be the exact > cards that this guy is referring to since much of the stuff that I find > does orginate at MMC. > > Joe > > 9. Geometric Arithmatic Parallel Processor {GAPP}, a real time vision > recognition, dynamically partitionable, dynamically fault reconfigurable, > array processor (SIMD) for Martin Marietta in Orlando. Each IC contained > 72 microprocessors, composed of a single TCU and multiple ALU-register > sets. Array grows in X and Y dimensions to match a required image array of > pixels matrix, and decimates in time to allow fault reconfiguration and > price/performance options. First successful SIMD VLSI. First successful > real time image recognition. Responsibility included addition to > instruction set {If then, case, etc based on if any, if all, if none}, > redesign for performance enhancement, and design of fault reconfiguration > switching at internal IC level and external array coordination. > Non-classified version is the 45CG72 from NCR. From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 20:09:17 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: >Whoa.... well, think of this as whole as a learning experience... an >expensive one, but a learning experience nonetheless :-) Well.. it really isn't too expensive... the printer only cost me $20 cash, and about an hour of my time... and the bonus is, by the time I left, I found an employee that could really use a PC printer right in their office, so they are getting the HP later this week. So in the end all worked out well. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 20:15:29 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: >So, to fit the HP formatter board into the Apple chassis, you need to >replace the base tray (so as to provide the font slots), the connectors >on the DC controller board (or maybe just swap the entire board :-(), the >control panel (no way will the HP board drive the Apple LED panel), and >thus part of the outer casing as well. It's possible, but why bother. Yeah really... at that point I might as well either yank the good pickup rollers from the Apple, or for $30 just buy another set. >It would be simpler to swap over the rollers (or the complete pickup >shaft assembly). Those parts are _identical_ between the 2 printers. > >Take off the outer casing at the top (lots of screws, then unplug the >cable to the status LEDs or control panel). Yeah, I have done this repair on my Apple LW IINT once before... I will most likey buy another kit for the HP when the fuser on it dies (it has a nasty scar across it, and is starting to peel... it is still printing fine with no adverse marks, but I suspect in a few months of decent use, that will stop being the case) -chris From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 20:18:06 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: >I'll look and see if I have a legal - I have a box of LJ 2 and III trays, >not sure if I have legals left though. Shipping to the C-U area from here is >cheap and then a couple bucks for the tray would work. I need more space >around here anyway. Yeah if you have one that would be great. The HP had no trays when I got it. I had a spare letter try for my Apple which fits nicely (although is grey rather than brown, but who cares). Let me know if you find a legal try (or any good parts/trays) and how much you would want. Thanks! -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 11 20:48:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Mar 11, 2 09:15:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/7f5f5fc4/attachment.ksh From jwbirdsa at picarefy.com Mon Mar 11 20:50:16 2002 From: jwbirdsa at picarefy.com (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle Message-ID: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> I have a Super Eagle and (I think) six Eagles still available for pickup in the Seattle area. Some should be working but others may not be, all are as-is. It really pains me to just toss old hardware, but I don't have space to have these just sitting around anymore, so unless I hear from somebody by the end of the month, they're bound for the dump. I almost had a deal for them at the end of 2000, but I suspect that was just before the Computer Garage had to move, which is enough for anybody to deal with at once. --James B. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Mar 11 21:31:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Geometric Array Processor board In-Reply-To: <3C8D5A41.AD107EA9@tiac.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020310142807.007ef380@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020311223103.0080c9b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bob, At 08:30 PM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote: >Having worked on parallel processors such as the Connection Machine, and >more recently the Blue Ice Ultra boards, all I can say is... > >Freeking cool find! It's another find that came from Penny's! Do you have any docs for the 45cg72? Joe > >Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone know much about these? I picked up TWO of these cards today >> and each one has 144 NCR45CG72 ICs on it. It looks ike EACH IC has 72 >> microproccesors in it. That makes a total of 20,736 processors!!! Here's a >> bit that I found while searching the net. IN FACT, these may be the exact >> cards that this guy is referring to since much of the stuff that I find >> does orginate at MMC. >> >> Joe >> >> 9. Geometric Arithmatic Parallel Processor {GAPP}, a real time vision >> recognition, dynamically partitionable, dynamically fault reconfigurable, >> array processor (SIMD) for Martin Marietta in Orlando. Each IC contained >> 72 microprocessors, composed of a single TCU and multiple ALU-register >> sets. Array grows in X and Y dimensions to match a required image array of >> pixels matrix, and decimates in time to allow fault reconfiguration and >> price/performance options. First successful SIMD VLSI. First successful >> real time image recognition. Responsibility included addition to >> instruction set {If then, case, etc based on if any, if all, if none}, >> redesign for performance enhancement, and design of fault reconfiguration >> switching at internal IC level and external array coordination. >> Non-classified version is the 45CG72 from NCR. > > From Panigi38 at aol.com Mon Mar 11 21:40:53 2002 From: Panigi38 at aol.com (Panigi38@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Sears SR3000 Message-ID: <4c.7ec40cd.29bed2c5@aol.com> Does anyone know where I can find ribbon for the old dot matrix Sears SR3000 printer? Thanks From mythtech at mac.com Mon Mar 11 22:41:23 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT Message-ID: >I've always rebuilt my own fusers. Take them to bits and replace just the >lamp and/or rollers as appropriate. It's cheaper (generally), and I know >it's been put together correctly with grease on the moving parts... Humm... I might just do that. The fuser looks to be in great shape (clean, nothing looks burnt or corroded) other than the main roller. The old wiping pad that was in there had been pressed pretty flat, and a bit of the plastic had been touching the fuser roller... as a result, there is a scratch that runs around the roller. The coating is now starting to peel off, and although it is working fine right now, I know it is only a matter of time before it stops fusing the toner correctly, and starts leaving a stripe of flaked toner. When that time comes... I will look into the cost of a new roller vs a whole new assembly. (I seem to recall having replaced the fuser on my IINT, and I think the whole assembly was only about $50... but I might be thinking of the wrong printer) I fully plan on keeping this HP running for some time. My IINT has been an absolute work horse for years, so I know the SX engine is a good one, easy to work with, can get parts fairly cheap and easily... and if cared for, will just keep on going. So I don't mind spending repair money as needed with it (unlike the Panasonic KX-P4420 that I am dumping rather than spend $200 to replace consumable parts... the Panasonic is an Ok printer, but nothing great, and parts are hard to get, and are expensive) -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Mar 11 22:43:30 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Barely classic Message-ID: I think this one just squeaks by the 10-year rule... Today I visited the high school I used to go to, and walked out with an Amiga 2000 with a Video Toaster. (Yes, I legally walked out with it...) Anyhow, I've got the thing 'seemingly' working, but the manual for the Toaster says that it either needs an RGB monitor connected or a terminator on the RGB port. Does anyone here know of a source of cables for this thing (I'm a tad low on 23pin dsub connectors) or a pair of connectors so I can connect my A1084S up to it? For now I'm using the monochrome NTSC output from the computer, but I would like to have a color display (and a properly functioning Toaster). -- Pat From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 11 23:06:28 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> Message-ID: <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ... and if somebody wants to build a controller, I've still got a couple of the WD1050's, which are SMD controller IC's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 7:50 PM Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle > I have a Super Eagle and (I think) six Eagles still available for pickup > in the Seattle area. Some should be working but others may not be, all are > as-is. It really pains me to just toss old hardware, but I don't have space > to have these just sitting around anymore, so unless I hear from somebody > by the end of the month, they're bound for the dump. I almost had a deal > for them at the end of 2000, but I suspect that was just before the Computer > Garage had to move, which is enough for anybody to deal with at once. > > --James B. > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 23:22:51 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC References: Message-ID: <3C8D90AB.87E49FE0@internet1.net> The uart chips in this board are socketed, which makes them very easily replaceable. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tony Duell wrote: > > > -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are > > replaceable, with cable) > > I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is... > > -tony From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 11 23:28:45 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: VCFE 2.0 Was: OT: name that computer References: Message-ID: <00be01c1c986$c7f04ee0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Oops...that was supposed to be for Sellam directly. > > So what - it is a good question. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org While on the subject, what's the status of VCF 5.0r? ("r" for rescheduled) From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 11 23:49:02 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> <3C8CF399.9AE796DB@internet1.net> <3C8CFA2B.8070407@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3C8D96CE.2A7E60DB@internet1.net> Oh, I think it's the IBM OEM model MCS-700 or something like that. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > What model FD? > > jbdigriz From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Mar 11 23:59:56 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Altos 580 Message-ID: I've been looking for info on an Altos 580. It's pretty thin. The little I've found shows the db25 connectors as rs232s, and mentions terminals. Does that mean I can get a console on my trusty MicroTerm? If not, are there any peripherals anywhere? Display, keyboard, an OS maybe? Doc From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 12 00:33:04 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Altos 580 Message-ID: In a message dated 3/11/02 10:08:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, doc@mdrconsult.com writes: > I've been looking for info on an Altos 580. It's pretty thin. The > little I've found shows the db25 connectors as rs232s, and mentions > terminals. Does that mean I can get a console on my trusty MicroTerm? > If not, are there any peripherals anywhere? Display, keyboard, an OS > maybe? > One of my favorite systems, Multiuser Z80. I had several of these about 1990. Only one of the serial ports is the console port, zero IIRC. Should work with a standard serial terminal, Wyse 50 etc. Your MicroTerm should work. Uses a serial printer also. I am not sure I can trust my memory without pictures as to the layout of the db25. IIRC (L to R) Ser Printer, Terminal, Terminal, Console? I don't remember if there was a serial modem port or not. No SW any more, sorry I hope you find some, it is a nice little computer. Paxton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/eec21b2d/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Mar 12 00:50:53 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: eBay Purchase References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> Message-ID: <00e901c1c992$415e6cc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > Help - What am I doing wrong? > Well, you may be spending your time writing complicated e-mails when a simple phone call (or shorter e-mail) would likely clear up what appears to be nothing more than a simple miscommunication. I think you need to give the benefit of the doubt to a seller with a 500+ feedback rating with virtually no negatives. Why not ask the seller for his phone number so you can talk and try to clear this up. He probably doesn't know what you're talking about (or deosn't have the patience to figure it out) and thinks shipping per your requirements will be a big hassle. On the other hand, he may just be a jerk. Either way, it's probably worth some time and effort to figure it out without resorting to contacting Ebay. -W > I sent the following response (SEE AFTER DOUBLE LINES of ======) > to a previous e-mail in respect of auction: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2006598832 > > This time he did not even reply. Am I being overly cautious is making > sure that the correct customs documents are used? > > Previously, we have agreed on the Shipping, Handling and insurance > to be $ 24.45 and that he would ship to Canada, but for some reason > which I can't understand, he seems to think that using the GREEN CN-22 > or a COMMERCIAL INVOICE is not a reasonable requirement. > While the shipping seems a bit high, I did not quibble and agreed to > pay what was asked. > > His Positive feedback seems satisfactory, so what could the problem be? > > His name and address are: > Bobert1959@aol.com > Bob Bruns > 6334 Alta Oaks Dr > Garland, TX 75043 > > However, this information seems to not be traceable. > > Is there anyone at eBay whom I can contact? > > Any other suggestions? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > MY RESPONSE TO HIS E-MAIL FOLLOWS: > Bob Burns does not reply. > ================================================ > ================================================ > > >Bobert1959@aol.com wrote: > > the terms of the auction are decided prior to the end. No other terms will be > > accpeted. The shipping amount has agreed on. If for some reason the auction > > terms are unacceptable. I will sell the item to the next highest bidder. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > If everything in this e-mail is satisfactory, please respond with > "Confirmed" as the first word in the body of your reply. > > Also, please add if you wish me to prepare the COMMERCIAL > INVOICE for you. > > Your reply seems to suggest that by requesting that you comply with > shipping requirements at port of entry into Canada (and probably > any country - although I am not familiar with regulations elsewhere), > I am changing the terms of the auction. I hope that this reply will > help you to understand that the terms of the auction are not > part of the requirements for shipping the drive and that I have > nothing to do with these requirements. > > In addition, if you read my last e-mail carefully, all that you have > been asked to do is to correctly provide the value of the item > to the customs officials in Canada. When a package is sent via > USPS, then I understand that a GREEN CN-22 form is used. > However, since I am not aware of exactly how USPS handles > air shipments, I may be incorrect. In that case, customs officials > in Canada may require a "Commercial Invoice" which is filled > out (based on my limited understanding) as a simple paper with: > > > =================================== > COMMERCIAL INVOICE > Your Name, Address and phone contact number > My Name, Address and phone contact number > Value of the Drive: $ US 11.50 > =================================== > > It is that simple. I don't set the requirements. > > Here is my part if you need to send a Commercial Invoice: > > Fine Services & Co. Ltd. > PST Exempt - 1531 2240 > 2 Inglis Gate > Willowdale, Ontario, Canada M2R 3G3 > Attention: Jerome Fine (416) 667-8233 > > Please note that ALL FIVE lines are essential > for the complete address and contact phone number. > In addition, ALL FIVE lines are essential on the > outside of the box and on any shipping document. > > I will include this information on a sheet of paper > which I will include with the money order and the > auction Item Number 2006598832. All you > will need to do if a Commercial Invoice is required > is to add your contact phone number to your > name and address plus the actual value of the > eBay auction. > > Again, I don't set the shipping arrangements - they > are imposed by Canadian Customs at the port of > entry. I you wish, I can prepare the COMMERCIAL > INVOICE for you - all you will need to do is add your > contact phone number to the paper. > > I anticipate that you don't wish to violate the requirements > that Customs Canada imposes. I certainly don't think > that a COMMERCIAL INVOICE is a difficult requirement > since it takes less than a minute to fill out. All of our e-mails > have certainly taken much longer. Certainly I have never > encountered anyone who has ever refused to provide > a COMMERCIAL INVOICE to Canadian Customs > since all of the information is normally available in any > case, just not consolidated onto the form which they > insist on - although I agree it is a pain in the posterior > if you ask my opinion. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 12 01:00:00 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Altos 580 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Only one of the serial ports is the console port, zero IIRC. Should work with > a standard serial terminal, Wyse 50 etc. Your MicroTerm should work. Uses a > serial printer also. Groovy. Just access to the console is more than I'd hoped for. > I am not sure I can trust my memory without pictures as to the layout of the > db25. IIRC (L to R) Ser Printer, Terminal, Terminal, Console? I don't > remember if there was a serial modem port or not. > > No SW any more, sorry I hope you find some, it is a nice little computer. With a little luck, it's still on there. With the way my luck has run lately, somebody will chime in tonight with the entire archive.... Guess I'll tell my friend to bring it on over. Doc From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Mar 12 03:22:49 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Barely classic References: Message-ID: <3C8DC8E9.1BF9D036@ccp.com> Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I think this one just squeaks by the 10-year rule... > > Today I visited the high school I used to go to, and walked out with an > Amiga 2000 with a Video Toaster. (Yes, I legally walked out with it...) > Anyhow, I've got the thing 'seemingly' working, but the manual for the > Toaster says that it either needs an RGB monitor connected or a terminator > on the RGB port. Does anyone here know of a source of cables for this > thing (I'm a tad low on 23pin dsub connectors) or a pair of connectors so > I can connect my A1084S up to it? For now I'm using the monochrome NTSC > output from the computer, but I would like to have a color display (and a > properly functioning Toaster). > > -- Pat Well it does make the 10 year rule. The Toaster came out in late 1990 or early 1991. The A2000 dates from 1988 or so. I get my DB23's from Gateway Electronics in St. Louis. You might be able to get a cable either from Redmond Cable or from Software Hut. I have a toaster 2000 card as well, and need the software to fire it up. I have a complete set of disks for a toaster 4000, but I don't know if that will work with the older card. If you have any other questions, contact me off-list. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 12 04:07:58 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Altos 580 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I've been looking for info on an Altos 580. It's pretty thin. The >little I've found shows the db25 connectors as rs232s, and mentions >terminals. Does that mean I can get a console on my trusty MicroTerm? >If not, are there any peripherals anywhere? Display, keyboard, an OS >maybe? If it's of any help at all, the 586T I had at one time ran Xenix. I still have what is supposed to be a couple of backup tapes from that system. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 12 04:09:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Barely classic In-Reply-To: <3C8DC8E9.1BF9D036@ccp.com> References: <3C8DC8E9.1BF9D036@ccp.com> Message-ID: >I have a toaster 2000 card as well, and need the software to fire it >up. I have a complete set of disks for a toaster 4000, but I don't know >if that will work with the older card. As far as I know, the Toaster software works on all versions of the card. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Mar 12 07:00:27 2002 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Altos 580 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A716@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I've been looking for info on an Altos 580. It's pretty thin. The > little I've found shows the db25 connectors as rs232s, and mentions > terminals. Does that mean I can get a console on my trusty MicroTerm? > If not, are there any peripherals anywhere? Display, keyboard, an OS > maybe? If this is the squarish box, it ran MP/M-II... let me check, one we used to have where I worked ended up in the hands of a local fellow collector (hey Russ B., do you know Chris at Nomad Radio on Bardstown Road?). I saw Chris at a party two weekends ago, he's *real* hard to get hold of. But I'll see if I can, and see if Tom or Crutch gave him the manuals and software... Worst case, since MP/M-II is now freely downloadable, source and all, you'd just have to re-port it to the 580... -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 12 07:27:31 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Barely classic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020312072047.043b64b8@pc> At 11:43 PM 3/11/2002 -0500, Pat Finnegan wrote: >I think this one just squeaks by the 10-year rule... >Today I visited the high school I used to go to, and walked out with an >Amiga 2000 with a Video Toaster. In a pinch, Amiga-heads took a hacksaw to a DB25. It might be easier to find a true Amiga cable. You'll also want separate "program" and "preview" composite monitors if you want to play TV studio. If there's a "TIO" directory there, I wrote that stuff. That's the "Toaster I/O" set of translators to handle Mac PICT files and various 3D formats into Lightwave. - John From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Mar 12 07:38:04 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith H89/Z90 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311181129.00a0a4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <003501c1c9cb$23888c60$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> You wrote.... > In what will probably be a futile attempt, I'm looking for an operating > H89/Z90 computer. I have somewhere around 5 or 6 H89/Z90's, all operating, all mint condition. However, I have not yet had a chance to dig into them since I received them to see which ones have which options, etc. Someday a few of mine will become available, but it's going to be a LONG time before I get a chance to go through them and pick the ones I want to keep. I also believe I have probably every piece of software ever released on them just about - OS, compilers, apps, etc. > I had one that I mucked around with all the time a few > years ago, and, in a moment of weakness gave it away. I'd like to find > another. Any ideas? I know the feeling all too well. Before I got into collecting, I let go of a data general nova 3, and two complete microdata reality M1600's systems (including 1/2 tape and reflex I drives) (one of which was a microcode development system). I STILL curse the day I let them out of my hands. Jay West From g at kurico.com Tue Mar 12 09:17:47 2002 From: g at kurico.com (g@kurico.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area? Message-ID: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost> I'll be in the Chicago metro area later this week. Any interesting places to visit (from a classiccmp perspective that is)? George From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Tue Mar 12 09:52:26 2002 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area? In-Reply-To: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost> References: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost> Message-ID: >I'll be in the Chicago metro area later this week. Any interesting >places to visit >(from a classiccmp perspective that is)? > >George Pls let me know if you hear of any. thanks. -Bob bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Mar 12 10:07:58 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> <3C8CF399.9AE796DB@internet1.net> <3C8CFA2B.8070407@dragonsweb.org> <3C8D96CE.2A7E60DB@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C8E27DE.7030106@dragonsweb.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Oh, I think it's the IBM OEM model MCS-700 or something like that. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > >>What model FD? >> >>jbdigriz >> > > I just looked at the 2.4.19pre1 source, and the stock Linux Future Domain driver (fdomain.o) *should* work with that. You might have to pass the correct IRQ and base I/O address via a kernel or insmod parameter when booting or loading as a modules, eg. fdomain=,,[] I believe this card also has jumpers to set these parameters, so you might fool around with them, too. Also note that sometimes SCSI drivers need to be disabled during initial booting. You can do this by entering at the boot prompt: restart disable=fdomain Or dodge the problem by not compiling the driver into the kernel, and loading it as a module. Don't know if any of this will help with your problem, but you may find it useful anyway, if you want to put all your SCSI devices on the one controller. jbdigriz From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Mar 12 10:21:51 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Microchannel and Redhat? References: <3C8CEA7C.9050504@dragonsweb.org> <3C8CF399.9AE796DB@internet1.net> <3C8CFA2B.8070407@dragonsweb.org> <3C8D96CE.2A7E60DB@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3C8E2B1F.2060006@dragonsweb.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Oh, I think it's the IBM OEM model MCS-700 or something like that. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > >>What model FD? >> >>jbdigriz >> > > addendum: the fd_mcs driver, oddly enough, is supposed to work better with MCA adapters than fdomain.o, which is an ISA driver, but should work, nevertheless. also, that boot prompt restart command I mentioned is, er, probably valid only for certain boot loaders, ie. Caldera. jbdigriz From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 12 10:24:00 2002 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Someone can make a picture of a KDA50 cab kit please? References: <200203081345.g28Djmb14340@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C88C677.B1063751@arrl.net> <3C897734.6040107@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C8E2BA0.83A2E6EB@bellsouth.net> Gunther Schadow wrote: > I guess so. I personally have a uVAX-II in the small cabinet, but > I take anything, I don't care about the larger metal pieces, what > I care about is the cable to the card and the SDI connectors. Those > should be the same. I need the picture so a guy who doesn't know > these things but may have the cables in a pile of stuff can recognize > it. I have the cable kit for the BA200 series cabinets as well. You are right, it will work in a BA123 if you just route the pigtails out a hole in the rear bulkhead. The part number for the one I have is 17-00951-03. It has a 32 pin Berg connector on the module end with a funny flat plastic retainer that holds it in. The pigtails are about 30 inches long and each has the metal 8 pin connector that mates to the disk drive cables. I'll send pictures in a separate message to you directly. -- Doug Carman pdp11 at bellsouth dot net From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 12 10:58:21 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC In-Reply-To: <3C8DE3BF.18262.5AE20EA@localhost> Message-ID: Try again. WITHOUT the html. On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote: 
 
> 
> 2) Ultrix-32 V2.2-1 
> Supp TK50 1988

> 
>

> 
> With this tape marked 
> 'SUPP' I suspect that I

> 
> only have the one 
> tape of a multi-tape set.

> 


> 

> 
IIRC there were only 
> two tapes in the set - SUPP

> 
and UNSUPP. SUPP (which 
> you have) is the only one

> 
you require to get going.

> 


> 

> 
> What are you considering 
> new?  I am looking at

> 
> the Ultrix 4.x Basic 
> Installation guide dated

> 
> 1990 and it lists 
> over a dozen uVAX's,

> 
> VAXservers, and 
> VAXstations.

> 


> 

> 
I have seen an:

> 


> 

> 
ULTRIX AND UWS V4.3 SUPP/UNSUPP 
> (VAX) 

> 


> 

> 
CD from September 1992 
> and note that a VAX

> 
CD-ROM for Ultrix is 
> mentioned in ULTRIX V4.4

> 
documenmtation. So it 
> looks like VAX was

> 
supported by ULTRIX until 
> ULTRIX expired (can't

> 
remember - was there 
> an ULTRIX V4.5)

> 


> 

> 
Doug.

> 


> 

> 


> 

>
From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Mar 12 11:03:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AEC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Since this is arguably an on-topic machine, I think I can probably get away with asking here. The hard drive on my Indigo2 is about to give out -- at least I believe this to be the case, since "Internal diagnostics predict the drive will fail soon" ;) Now, this machine has a 2.1G drive right now, but If I'm going to replace it, I'd like to replace it with something that I can capture some video on, which means at least 9G (or up to 21G). I believe the bus on this thing is normal SCSI-2, which has never been a problem for me. The problem I find now is that all the drive with the capacity I'd like to have for it are Fast/Wide/ Ultra/SCA/New/Improved/God-Like SCSI drives (Now with Vitamin C). :) I guess the question is: Do they make a normal SCSI-2 drive that's about 10G or larger? (better if it fits in the 3.5" by 1" (or so) sled) If not, is it possible to plug in an ultra SCSI drive? Will the drive slow itself down to normal speed if it's properly adapted? Has anyone tried either of these things? I am interested in both theory and practice, here. Lastly, what about a SCSI-2 hardware RAID (cost, etc)? What about a Fiberchannel interface for this ting (is there even such a board?) Thanks, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Tue Mar 12 11:17:18 2002 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC Message-ID: <3C8DE3BF.18262.5AE20EA@localhost>
> 2) Ultrix-32 V2.2-1 Supp TK50 1988
>
> With this tape marked 'SUPP' I suspect that I
> only have the one tape of a multi-tape set.

IIRC there were only two tapes in the set - SUPP
and UNSUPP. SUPP (which you have) is the only one
you require to get going.

> What are you considering new?  I am looking at
> the Ultrix 4.x Basic Installation guide dated
> 1990 and it lists over a dozen uVAX's,
> VAXservers, and VAXstations.

I have seen an:

ULTRIX AND UWS V4.3 SUPP/UNSUPP (VAX)

CD from September 1992 and note that a VAX
CD-ROM for Ultrix is mentioned in ULTRIX V4.4
documenmtation. So it looks like VAX was
supported by ULTRIX until ULTRIX expired (can't
remember - was there an ULTRIX V4.5)

Doug.


From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Mar 12 11:21:05 2002 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: eBay Purchase References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> <00e901c1c992$415e6cc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3C8E3901.1955304B@idirect.com> >Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Well, you may be spending your time writing complicated e-mails when a simple phone call (or shorter e-mail) would likely clear up > what appears to be nothing more than a simple miscommunication. I think you need to give the benefit of the doubt to a seller with > a 500+ feedback rating with virtually no negatives. Why not ask the seller for his phone number so you can talk and try to clear > this up. He probably doesn't know what you're talking about (or deosn't have the patience to figure it out) and thinks shipping per > your requirements will be a big hassle. > > On the other hand, he may just be a jerk. Either way, it's probably worth some time and effort to figure it out without resorting > to contacting Ebay. Jerome Fine replies: I thought the same. Perhaps my last e-mail (with his phone number) helped. Since he is shipping via USPS (which only requires the GREEN CN-22 to be filled in - which is the alternate form that I specifically mentioned might be used instead), he has now agreed to fill in that form. I am still not sure what he will use for the value of the item, but it SHOULD be the auction price of $ US 11.50 - which makes a big difference to me when a carrier like UPS charges to clear a shipment through customs. For now I will NOT contact eBay. Thank you for your suggestion. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 12 11:28:43 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2 In-Reply-To: New hard drive in an Indigo2 (Christopher Smith) References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AEC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <15502.15051.265083.357716@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 12, Christopher Smith wrote: > Since this is arguably an on-topic machine, I think I can probably > get away with asking here. I believe the Indigo2 was introduced in mid to late 1994. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf From vance at ikickass.org Tue Mar 12 11:48:43 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: OT: name that computer In-Reply-To: <3C8CF242.C88B39CF@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I'm not taking about curmudgeons, I'm talking about the generally > accepted view by most everyone, including people that weren't around > then. The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant. Closeted sexual deviants ran this country. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Mar 12 11:49:04 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AEC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Do they make a normal SCSI-2 drive that's about 10G or larger? > (better if it fits in the 3.5" by 1" (or so) sled) All the 9G+ narrow SCSI drives I can think of ar 5.25" drives. > If not, is it possible to plug in an ultra SCSI drive? Will the > drive slow itself down to normal speed if it's properly adapted? I dunno about SGI, but I've got a couple of 2.1G Ultra drives in a VAXstation.... I've had better results in general putting the 50-68pin adapter at the SCSI board rather than at the drive. I don't think it matters much, though. I _do_ think how you terminate does matter. A passive narrow terminator (eg most CDs' internal termination) seems unreliable with wide drives on the channel. We had the drive speed/bus speed fla^H^H^H, I mean thread, last month. ;^) But, yes. I personally have never seen a SCSI drive overrun the adapter. > Has anyone tried either of these things? I am interested in both > theory and practice, here. Yes. Alla time. > Lastly, what about a SCSI-2 hardware RAID (cost, etc)? What about > a Fiberchannel interface for this ting (is there even such a board?) I've got a Mylex PCI 20mbit adapter (DAC960[PL?]) I'll trade you cheap. It's my opinion that on a non-server box, the gained speed is minimal compared to the lost storage capacity suffered with any reliable RAID, unless you really need to mirror your data. Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Mar 12 11:59:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AEF@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > I believe the Indigo2 was introduced in mid to late 1994. Oops, I thought it was 92. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Tue Mar 12 12:08:44 2002 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS Message-ID: <58329318@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1498 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/f505446f/attachment.bin From vcf at vintage.org Tue Mar 12 12:12:33 2002 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision Message-ID: If any of you get MediaTelevision (a Canadian program) you can see a segment on the VCF sometime this week. There's a blurb on the segment on their website: http://www.mediatv.net/ After the Flash intro, there's a link called "VINTAGE COMPUTER" you can click on. I'm getting a copy of the taped segment sent to me. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ccraft at netgenius.org Tue Mar 12 12:18:02 2002 From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle In-Reply-To: <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com> SMD drives hook up to a KDA50, yes? -Chris On Monday 11 March 2002 22:06, you wrote: > ... and if somebody wants to build a controller, I've still got a couple of > the WD1050's, which are SMD controller IC's. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 7:50 PM > Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle > > > I have a Super Eagle and (I think) six Eagles still available for > > pickup in the Seattle area. Some should be working but others may not be, > > all are as-is. It really pains me to just toss old hardware, but I don't > > have space to have these just sitting around anymore, so unless I hear > > from somebody by the end of the month, they're bound for the dump. I > > almost had a deal for them at the end of 2000, but I suspect that was > > just before the Computer Garage had to move, which is enough for anybody > > to deal with at once. > > > > --James B. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Mar 12 12:21:08 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AF0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > I've got a Mylex PCI 20mbit adapter (DAC960[PL?]) I'll trade you > cheap. It's my opinion that on a non-server box, the gained speed is > minimal compared to the lost storage capacity suffered with > any reliable > RAID, unless you really need to mirror your data. Well, I've got a Mylex EISA RAID that would probably have a better chance of working. :) This machine has no PCI bus, but has EISA and GIO64... Even if it did have the bus for it, though, there would be the problem of finding an IRIX driver for that board. IRIX supported hardware isn't exactly plentiful. Anyway, shouldn't a decent RAID allow you to select the mode so that it only does striping ? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Tue Mar 12 12:24:26 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:18 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) Message-ID: <200203121824.AA26523@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:42:30 -0700 > From: Ben Franchuk > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) > Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > > The DSI punches punch their own sprocket holes. Funny, > > I don't remember prepunched tape. Wouldn't that be > > punched tape prepunched with NULL's (ha ha). > > It is a know fact that Santa's Elves will pre-punch your > paper tape for you on their days off. You have a choice > of white,red,or green paper tape. > > A low speed punch 10 cps vers a high speed punch > 50 cps could be a important cost factor. Now if you > had black paper tape one could zap out the holes > with a laser giving you a very high speed punch. > Since the punching speed does limit paper > tape to a practical limit of about 8kb was there > any really large paper tape programs? 4K focal on > a TTY was as long a program that I ever loaded from paper > tape ... 20 minutes. Once (only) I loaded PDP11 DOS from paper tape onto an RK05 disk. My memory is that it was about a cubic foot of folded paper tape in trays. Fortunately I had a 300c/s tape reader, and a 9-track magtape drive to make a disk backup afterwards. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 12 12:30:06 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS In-Reply-To: <58329318@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2002, Marion Bates wrote: > The PC side _seems_ to be booting up ok (I can hear faint Windows system beeps, > and the PC Setup control panel reports that "PC is running") but I can't switch > over. When I hit "switch to PC" the Mac's screen goes dimmer, the cursor > disappears, and the PC Clipboard becomes the active app, but nothing else > happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting. But interminable waiting with nothing happening IS 100% Windoze compatability! From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Tue Mar 12 12:33:47 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005 Subject: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) Message-ID: <200203121833.AA26559@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:59:04 -0700 > From: Ben Franchuk > X-Accept-Language: en > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Blank Paper Tape Question (P.S.) > Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > > > > A low speed punch 10 cps vers a high speed punch > > > 50 cps could be a important cost factor. Now if you > > > had black paper tape one could zap out the holes > > > with a laser giving you a very high speed punch. > > > Since the punching speed does limit paper > > > tape to a practical limit of about 8kb was there > > > any really large paper tape programs? 4K focal on > > > a TTY was as long a program that I ever loaded from paper > > > tape ... 20 minutes. > > > > > > > Well, a good optical reader can read 400 characters per second. Correct me > > if i'm wrong, but that seems like 4096 bytes takes 10.24 seconds to read > > in. Assuming its not a 30 year old tape that vaporizes at that speed ;) > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > The TTY is the LOW speed punch/reader ... 10 CPS. > The high speed reader is 300 CPS for the PDP-8. > The problem with paper tape > on the PDP-8 at least is that you had to read a character at a > time. Read char... process ... read. This meant the paper tape > had to stop the tape on every character. Reading the tape is > not the problem ... stopping was. You know, at 300 char/sec there is more than 3000 microseconds between characters. Plenty of time for even a PDP-8 to execute a thousand or so instructions. The next challenge is to write a program to duplicate paper tapes, high-speed reader at 300 c/s to high-speed punch at 50 c/s. Keep the punch running at full speed while reading in bursts to keep ahead of the punch. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Mar 12 12:35:20 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005 Subject: Someone can make a picture of a KDA50 cab kit please? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066474@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Doug Carman wrote: >Gunther Schadow wrote: > >> I guess so. I personally have a uVAX-II in the small cabinet, but >> I take anything, I don't care about the larger metal pieces, what >> I care about is the cable to the card and the SDI connectors. Those >> should be the same. I need the picture so a guy who doesn't know >> these things but may have the cables in a pile of stuff can recognize >> it. > >I have the cable kit for the BA200 series cabinets as well. You are >right, it will work in a BA123 if you just route the pigtails out a hole >in the rear bulkhead. The part number for the one I have is >17-00951-03. It has a 32 pin Berg connector on the module end with a >funny flat plastic retainer that holds it in. The pigtails are about 30 >inches long and each has the metal 8 pin connector that mates to the >disk drive cables. The KDA50 User Guide is at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm The BA23 cab kit is pictured on p2-2. It's basically a rectangular panel with two connectors for SDI cables. The internal cable just plugs in on the inside (and the external cables - somehwhat thicker) plugs in externally. You need two bulkheads if you want to use all four possible drives. The internal cable is four tails connected to a single flat head with a plastic cover at the KDA50 end. (It's not *that* clear from the picture unless you already know what you are looking at). More pictures on pp 2-14, 2-15 and 2-16. I cannot find a picture of the BA213 arrangement. The KDA50 board pair sits behind a three-wide metal panel (the third slot is occupied by the cabling). The internal cable is the same and heads up and to the top left drive bay. There is where the bulkhead lives ... a recessed four-way connector. I expect I'll find a picture as soon as I hit "Send" ... Antonio From emu at ecubics.com Tue Mar 12 12:37:17 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005 Subject: HTML, Re: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC References: Message-ID: <3C8E4ADD.5948CD10@ecubics.com> Is there no way to simply reject all html email already on the mailserver ? "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > Try again. > WITHOUT the html. > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote: > 
 
...

From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 12:37:31 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem
In-Reply-To: <3C891D51.506A687C@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: 


5, 6, and 8 are on.  7 is off.

Thanks,

Tom

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote:

> Leds 5 to 8 should be off : they represent a binary errorcode.
>  I can look them up for you if required...
> 
> 				Jos Dreesen
> 
> 


From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 12 12:39:27 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AF3@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Marion.Bates@dartmouth.edu [mailto:Marion.Bates@dartmouth.edu]

> The PC side _seems_ to be booting up ok (I can hear faint 
> Windows system beeps, and the PC Setup control panel reports 
> that "PC is running") but I can't switch over. When I hit 
> "switch to PC" the Mac's screen goes dimmer, the cursor 
> disappears, and the PC Clipboard becomes the active app, but 
> nothing else happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting. 

Sounds like maybe the Mac drivers for the card need 
re-installed.  Not that I have any more experience with this
stuff than you, probably...

> I mounted the PC disk image on the Mac side and poked through 
> it, and it looks like there are some major filesystem issues 
> -- open a folder and it contains the whole top level 
> directory listing, including itself -- open a subfolder, same 
> thing, etc. probably to infinity. It needs a complete 

This "folder" isn't named '.' is it? ;)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Tue Mar 12 12:40:55 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
In-Reply-To: <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com>; from ccraft@netgenius.org on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 19:18:02 CET
References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com>
Message-ID: <20020312194055.A256170@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.12 19:18 Chris Craft wrote:

> SMD drives hook up to a KDA50, yes?
No. KDA50 is QBus to SDI MSCP adapter. SDI is DEC proprietary. You need
DEC RAxx drives for it. 
What you want is e.g. a Emulex QD3[234]. grep the field-guide.txt for
smd...
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From mythtech at mac.com  Tue Mar 12 12:54:46 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>The PC side _seems_ to be booting up ok (I can hear faint Windows system 
>beeps, and the PC Setup control panel reports that "PC is running") but I 
>can't switch over. When I hit "switch to PC" the Mac's screen goes dimmer, 
>the cursor disappears, and the PC Clipboard becomes the active app, but 
>nothing else happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting. 

In the PC Setup control panel, change the C: drive to a new drive file, 
make it an brand new drive file, with nothing in it (just make a 5mb or 
something). Then boot the PC. You should get a BIOS boot screen, and 
eventually see a typical PC error of non system disk, replace and press a 
key.

If you don't get that far, then the card isn't working properly. At that 
point, I would verify it is installed correctly (I'm not sure if that 
model card needed a video dongle or not... the Q610 "Houdini" card does, 
and so does the later 586 and Pentium card, although the latter can use 
an internal video cable in place of the normal external one.)

After verifying the card is installed ok (fully seated, CD Audio cable is 
connected, and video dongle connected if needed), and it still doesn't 
boot... reinstall the Mac PC Setup software. You want version 1.5. You 
can get it here 
 v1.0.2 
is for the Q610 card, v1.5 is for the Q630/PM6100 card, and v1.6.4 is for 
the later 586/Pentium cards.

If is STILL doesn't boot... check to see if a ram chip is installed 
directly on the DOS card. If so, remove it. The cards are very picky over 
using the right chip. Remove an installed one, and then tell the PC Setup 
you want to share ram with the Mac (it should default to that 
automatically when it doesn't detect a chip installed).

If it STILL doesn't boot... let me know, we'll go from there. But by now, 
it should at least boot to the BIOS screen.

Once you get to the BIOS screen, you can then either retry the old drive 
file, or just start from scratch and install DOS or Windows. The card you 
have officially supports up to Win95.

You should NOT have the drive file open and mounted on the Mac when you 
are trying to boot from the PC. And after changing drive files in the PC 
Setup control panel, you will need to reboot the PC (but not the Mac).

-chris




From cisin at xenosoft.com  Tue Mar 12 12:56:27 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> deviants ran this country.

Is it different now?


From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu  Tue Mar 12 12:59:05 2002
From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <58333077@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 526 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/5959385e/attachment.bin
From jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net  Tue Mar 12 12:59:54 2002
From: jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net (jismay@gkar.unixboxen.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
Message-ID: <20020312105953.A416@unixboxen.net>

To answer your question, yes as long as you have the right adaptors any drive should world in an Indigo2. I have had 68pin,sca, and HVD drives in Indigo2's without any problems. The only thing you have to do is make sure you set the drive to the right SCSI ID. the lower left is (i believe) 1, upper left is 2 and the 5-1/4 bay is 3.
-- 
Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/226d2582/attachment.bin
From bpope at wordstock.com  Tue Mar 12 13:03:30 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: HTML, Re: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC
In-Reply-To: <3C8E4ADD.5948CD10@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Mar 12, 02 11:37:17 am
Message-ID: <200203121903.OAA14671@wordstock.com>

And thusly emanuel stiebler spake:
> 
> 
> Is there no way to simply reject all html email already 
> on the mailserver ?

There should be..  On another mailing list I am on, they recently put in a 
filter that strips out all html from a message.

This was mostly to strip out any attachements.  Since the mailing list is 
from Australia, they have to pay for the amount of data that goes through 
their server.

> 
> 
> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
> > 
> > Try again.
> > WITHOUT the html.
> > 
> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, DOUG PEKSA - COMPG wrote:
> > 
 
> ...
> 


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 12 13:05:17 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A729@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


> > happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting. 
> 
> But interminable waiting with nothing happening IS 100% Windoze
> compatability!  

"Sir, this computer I bought, the hourglass doesn't seem to work..."

:)

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 12 13:08:00 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
In-Reply-To: Re: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle (Chris Craft)
References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>
	<004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	<02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com>
Message-ID: <15502.21008.423687.543760@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 12, Chris Craft wrote:
> SMD drives hook up to a KDA50, yes?

  Nope...a KDA50 is an SDI controller, for RA-series drives.  I don't
know of any SMD controller made by DEC, though many other companies
made SMD controllers for DEC machines.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 13:09:08 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8E5253.4BE641D4@internet1.net>

Care to elaborate?

Chad

Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> > I'm not taking about curmudgeons, I'm talking about the generally
> > accepted view by most everyone, including people that weren't around
> > then.
> 
> The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> deviants ran this country.
> 
> Peace...  Sridhar

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Tue Mar 12 13:15:02 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AF0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]
>
> >   I've got a Mylex PCI 20mbit adapter (DAC960[PL?]) I'll trade you
> > cheap.  It's my opinion that on a non-server box, the gained speed is
> > minimal compared to the lost storage capacity suffered with
> > any reliable
> > RAID, unless you really need to mirror your data.
>
> Well, I've got a Mylex EISA RAID that would probably have a
> better chance of working.  :)  This machine has no PCI bus,

  Oh.

> Anyway, shouldn't a decent RAID allow you to select the mode
> so that it only does striping ?

  Didn't I say "reliable"?  Even RAID 0, plain striping, carries a
certain overhead in drivespace.  The big problem is that with simple
striping you lose everything if you lose anything.  RAID is *expensive*,
even if you get your adapter free.  Drivespace overhead, tuning slices,
matching drives, power consumption, noise, etc.  BIG cost is the
price of drives, for example 5x9G drives vs. 1x36G.


  A multi-channel adapter or multiple adapters, running JBOD, with
intelligent filesystem groupings, will probably boost your speed as much
as RAID will.  (Assuming a single-user general-use Unix desktop.)  RAID
can be tuned to big sequential reads or writes, or a lot of small r/w,
but it's damn difficult to get middle-ground or all-around performance.


  All that said, it's good practice and fun.

	Doc


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 12 13:16:44 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > deviants ran this country.
> 
> Is it different now?

I think he had drag queens like Herbert J. Hoover in mind...
a psycho who also kept a noted heroin addict supplied with
their fix, the addict in question being the doctor of our
beloved Sen. Joseph McCarthy...

the things you learn once they're dead in the grave... just
wait till Reagan's been gone a while...

-dq

From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 12 13:26:51 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AF4@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jismay@gkar.unixboxen.net [mailto:jismay@gkar.unixboxen.net]

> To answer your question, yes as long as you have the right 
> adaptors any drive should world in an Indigo2. I have had 
> 68pin,sca, and HVD drives in Indigo2's without any problems. 
> The only thing you have to do is make sure you set the drive 
> to the right SCSI ID. the lower left is (i believe) 1, upper 
> left is 2 and the 5-1/4 bay is 3.

Great.  I had no idea they even made HVD to NSHVSE (not-so-high
voltage single ended? :) adaptors.  Not that I want to actually
use a HVD disk...

I'll probably attempt to pick up a 18G or so ultra-scsi disk, in
that case.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From Mzthompson at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 13:33:10 2002
From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC
Message-ID: <192.39efc11.29bfb1f6@aol.com>

Previously, I wrote:

> > 2) Ultrix-32 V2.2-1 Supp TK50 1988

> > With this tape marked 'SUPP' I suspect that I only 
> > have the one tape of a multi-tape set.

And then "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG"  wrote (amidst all
the HTML flotsam):

> IIRC there were only two tapes in the set - SUPP and UNSUPP. 
> SUPP (which you have) is the only one you require to get going.

Great!   Hey Chris, you hear that?

> > What are you considering new? I am looking at the Ultrix 4.x Basic 
> > Installation guide dated 1990 and it lists over a dozen uVAX's,
> > VAXservers, and VAXstations.

> I have seen an:

> ULTRIX AND UWS V4.3 SUPP/UNSUPP (VAX) CD from September 1992 
> and note that a VAX CD-ROM for Ultrix is mentioned in ULTRIX V4.4
> documenmtation. So it looks like VAX was supported by ULTRIX until 
> ULTRIX expired (can't remember - was there an ULTRIX V4.5)

Yes, there was an Ultrix 4.5 and it was the last version.  I don't know the
date on 4.5, but the date on 4.4 is May 1995.

Thanks Doug.

Mike

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Tue Mar 12 13:36:43 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 

> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > > deviants ran this country.
> > Is it different now?
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> I think he had drag queens like Herbert J. Hoover in mind...

Herbert?  or JEdger?    (or both?)

> a psycho who also kept a noted heroin addict supplied with
> their fix, the addict in question being the doctor of our
> beloved Sen. Joseph McCarthy...
> the things you learn once they're dead in the grave... just
> wait till Reagan's been gone a while...

Most leaders are sexually active.
Was Clinton in the closet?  Couldn't he do better than THAT?
How about Starr's obsessive voyeurism?
About the only exception was Nixon.  I am willing to believe that he was
the only president EVER who couldn't get laid.

It took a while before even Kennedy's sexual activities became widely
known, and Eiesenhower's affairs still remain "discrete".
How long will it take before we find out about Ford, Bush, Carter,
Reagan, etc?



From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 13:43:31 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem
In-Reply-To: <3C891D51.506A687C@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: 


Sometimes its just 6 and 8 that come on, other times 5 comes on as well.

Thanks,

Tom

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote:

> Time to look at the DSD440 controller board...
> The green leds ( 1 and 9 ) should be on.
> Leds 2-3-4 are status leds :
> Led 2 : Controller waiting for interface.
> Led 3 : controller writing
> Led 4 : controller reading
> 
> Leds 5 to 8 should be off : they represent a binary errorcode.
>  I can look them up for you if required...
> 
> 				Jos Dreesen
> 
> 


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 12 13:46:33 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > To answer your question, yes as long as you have the right 
> > adaptors any drive should world in an Indigo2. I have had 
> > 68pin,sca, and HVD drives in Indigo2's without any problems. 
> > The only thing you have to do is make sure you set the drive 
> > to the right SCSI ID. the lower left is (i believe) 1, upper 
> > left is 2 and the 5-1/4 bay is 3.
> 
> Great.  I had no idea they even made HVD to NSHVSE (not-so-high
> voltage single ended? :) adaptors.  Not that I want to actually
> use a HVD disk...

I get a mailing from Paralan, a reseller of these adapters,
at least monthly (just a post card, actually). Plan on spending 
US$300 for a new one...

-dq

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Tue Mar 12 13:48:08 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467764@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Doc
> 
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
> 
> > Anyway, shouldn't a decent RAID allow you to select the mode
> > so that it only does striping ?
> 
>   Didn't I say "reliable"?  Even RAID 0, plain striping, carries a
> certain overhead in drivespace.  The big problem is that with simple
> striping you lose everything if you lose anything.  RAID is *expensive*,
> even if you get your adapter free.  Drivespace overhead, tuning slices,
> matching drives, power consumption, noise, etc.  BIG cost is the
> price of drives, for example 5x9G drives vs. 1x36G.
> 
> 
>   A multi-channel adapter or multiple adapters, running JBOD, with
> intelligent filesystem groupings, will probably boost your speed as much
> as RAID will.  (Assuming a single-user general-use Unix desktop.)  RAID
> can be tuned to big sequential reads or writes, or a lot of small r/w,
> but it's damn difficult to get middle-ground or all-around performance.
> 
> 
>   All that said, it's good practice and fun.
> 
> 	Doc
> 
Doc - As someone who never played with RAID before, can you provide an
example setup, or two?

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 12 13:49:40 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: RE: OT: name that computer (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
	
Message-ID: <15502.23508.244271.464546@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 12, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> > a psycho who also kept a noted heroin addict supplied with
> > their fix, the addict in question being the doctor of our
> > beloved Sen. Joseph McCarthy...
> > the things you learn once they're dead in the grave... just
> > wait till Reagan's been gone a while...
> 
> Most leaders are sexually active.
> Was Clinton in the closet?  Couldn't he do better than THAT?
> How about Starr's obsessive voyeurism?
> About the only exception was Nixon.  I am willing to believe that he was
> the only president EVER who couldn't get laid.
> 
> It took a while before even Kennedy's sexual activities became widely
> known, and Eiesenhower's affairs still remain "discrete".
> How long will it take before we find out about Ford, Bush, Carter,
> Reagan, etc?

  Personally, I'd be pretty worried about ANYONE with that much power
who doesn't Get Some with some degree of regularity.

  I can see it now: "Welcome to CNN.  Six countries were wiped off the
map by US nuclear missiles this afternoon because the President hadn't
Gotten Any in fifteen years.  Leaders from nearly thirty countries are
busily putting young nubiles on airplanes bound for Washington in
hopes that this will ensure their countries' safety from the Wrath of
the Horny President."

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 13:50:01 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:

> It's virtually all in th ASIC. There are some relevant inputs :
> Pin 33 (Step pulse input)
> Pin 29 (Step direction input)
> Pin 34 (Step Enable /)
> Pin 27 (Output Enable) ?
> 
> You might want to compare the states of the 2 enable pins between the 2 
> drives. Just in case there are problems there.

They appeared to be the same on both drives, except for a slightly lower
voltage on pin 34 on the good unit (3.7 on the good one, 4.9 on the bad),
while trying to move.

Also, it appears I have an intermittent problem.  After awhile, I noticed
the drive was actually positioning correctly.  I went to connect it back
to the PDP, and it worked for about 10 power cycles.  Then it got to where
it wouldn't work when connected to the PDP, and would work without
it.  After a few more times, it got back to where we are now--where it
doesn't work at all.  All the connections seem pretty good.  The unit was
physically moved during the above events.
 
> 2 other areas to investigate. Firstly the clock for the ASIC. This is the 
> Xtal (Y1) and associated bits connected to pins 19 and 20. Look for a 
> 5MHz oscillation on at least one of those pins with a 'scope.

I have 5Mhz on both pins.

> And POR (Power On Reset), on pin 14. This should be low briefly after 
> power-on and then go high. Check the capacitor connected to this pin ( on 
> the 25229 board, this is C21, .47uF) and the power fail comparator 
> circuit (on the 25229 board, it's pins 10, 11, 13 of the LM339).

Pin 14 does as you indicate.  C21 seems okay.  The LM339 is fine, although
I only checked the section you mentioned.

-Tom


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 13:51:02 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To:  from "Chris" at Mar 11, 2 11:41:23 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1550 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/f8417971/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 13:52:29 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <3C8D90AB.87E49FE0@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 12, 2 00:22:51 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 366 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020312/d5ce93e1/attachment.ksh
From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Tue Mar 12 13:56:27 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A729@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E5D6B.45B202B1@Vishay.com>



Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > > happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting.
> >
> > But interminable waiting with nothing happening IS 100% Windoze
> > compatability!
> 
> "Sir, this computer I bought, the hourglass doesn't seem to work..."
> 
> :)

I was told that the word "Windows" stems from an old Sioux dialect and
means, translated, "white man stares through glass pane at hour
glass"...

:-D

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 14:00:01 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: FS: Narrow SCSI tower, pick up only
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8E5E41.D145CA85@internet1.net>

Toth,

If your really want it, I'll ship it to you $50, plus shipping.  It
would go in several boxes and may end up costing quite a bit, although,
It would cost as much as a SS670mp or a Vax in a BA213 or BA440 case
would :-)

It would take me some time to get it packed properly and shipped,
However.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Tothwolf wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> > I've got this huge MTI narrow SCSI case that I'd like to sell.  It'll
> > hold 4 full height drives.
> 
> I'm looking for one of these down here in Houston. Someone gave me 4 full
> height SCSI drives last year, and I've been looking for something to put
> them in. If someone in or near Houston finds one of these, send me an
> email.
> 
> IIRC, MTI used to sell SCSI "kits", and even sold some board/bulkhead and
> cable kits for VAX systems.
> 
> -Toth

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 12 14:06:23 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > I think he had drag queens like Herbert J. Hoover in mind...
> 
> Herbert?  or JEdger?    (or both?)

 yes, J. Edgar... Senior moments come now by the truckloads... 
I'll have a drool cup installed soon.
 
> > a psycho who also kept a noted heroin addict supplied with
> > their fix, the addict in question being the doctor of our
> > beloved Sen. Joseph McCarthy...
> > the things you learn once they're dead in the grave... just
> > wait till Reagan's been gone a while...
> 
> Most leaders are sexually active.
> Was Clinton in the closet?  Couldn't he do better than THAT?
> How about Starr's obsessive voyeurism?
> About the only exception was Nixon.  I am willing to believe 
> that he was
> the only president EVER who couldn't get laid.

Must... freeze... wages... and... prices... or... all is lost!
 
> It took a while before even Kennedy's sexual activities became widely
> known, and Eiesenhower's affairs still remain "discrete".
> How long will it take before we find out about Ford, Bush, Carter,
> Reagan, etc?

Ford:   zipper accidents
Bush:   mom, is that you?
Carter: now Marilyn, isn't four times a year excessive?
Reagan: Well darn, now you know why I wear baggy suits..

;)

From philip at awale.qc.ca  Tue Mar 12 14:38:54 2002
From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On 12-Mar-2002 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> But interminable waiting with nothing happening IS 100% Windoze
> compatability!  

"You have moved the mouse.  Do you want to reboot for these changes to
take effect?"

-Philip

From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 14:58:07 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <3C81A92F.DC8A0EFF@idirect.com>
Message-ID: 


	While waiting and hoping for my SCSI controller, I was curious if
anyone knows if its possible to burn a CD-ROM of the OS and my program, to
boot my 11/23 from a SCSI CD-ROM.  I would assume the controller/OS would
just see this as a regular disk.  The only problem I can think of would be
if something tried to write to the disk, which obviously wouldn't work.  
My program doesn't write any files to the disk.  As far as I can tell, the
OS doesn't either.  Has anyone ever tried this?

	I was mainly thinking CD-ROM would be nice option because if the
drive fails, the data is unaffected, and its easy and inexpensive to copy
CDs.

Thanks,

Tom


From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 12 15:10:25 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: booting vax 750 on uda-50
References: 
Message-ID: <008001c1ca0a$544b76c0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

Is there a particular boot prom I need in the "D" slot,
as is the case with massbus controller?

Thanks!
Heinz


From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 12 15:11:17 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AFA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]

> What I was commenting on (indirectly) is the idea that many 
> PC-users have 
> that you _can't_ replace soldered-in chips, and you can't 

I agree completely -- in principal, of course, that said, most
PC-users shouldn't replace soldered in chips :)

> upgrade a 16450 
> to a 16550 if it's soldered in. Things like that. I don't 
> want those sort 
> of ideas polluting this list :-)

As long as the replacement chip is compatible, sure, it really
is generally that easy, but there are certainly cases where I
wouldn't normally try it.  For instance, a board with several 
layers, which has the chip "integrated" onto the top.  Even
then, if you're desperate enough, you might be able to cut a
few pins and work that way.  

Anyway, the point is that (and you've made this point before)
replacing things is becoming much less simple.

I've seen some things on some boards which I would not consider
"replicable," since my definition in this context would include
"without robotic assistance, or a clean-room."
 ;)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Mar 12 15:46:55 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To:  from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 12, 2002 03:58:07 PM
Message-ID: <200203122146.g2CLkts06395@shell1.aracnet.com>

> 	While waiting and hoping for my SCSI controller, I was curious if
> anyone knows if its possible to burn a CD-ROM of the OS and my program, to
> boot my 11/23 from a SCSI CD-ROM.  I would assume the controller/OS would
> just see this as a regular disk.  The only problem I can think of would be
> if something tried to write to the disk, which obviously wouldn't work.  
> My program doesn't write any files to the disk.  As far as I can tell, the
> OS doesn't either.  Has anyone ever tried this?
> 
> 	I was mainly thinking CD-ROM would be nice option because if the
> drive fails, the data is unaffected, and its easy and inexpensive to copy
> CDs.

Yes, it is possible.  The real trick is finding a SCSI CD-ROM that will work
with your SCSI Adapter!  In my case I'm using a Viking QDT with a DEC RRD-42
drive (I think that's the right drive, it's the one that uses standard
caddies).  I feel a lot safer being able to restore from CD's rather than
old flakey TK50's.  Basically you just burn a disk image of a HD that's been
built on that controller to a CD-R.  I've done this for RT-11, RSX-11M, and
RSX-11M+.  Of the three RT-11 complains the least about being on CD.  The
two RSX's I tried *really* don't like it, but appear to come up enough that
I should be able to copy them to a real HD.

		Zane

From donm at cts.com  Tue Mar 12 15:51:20 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > deviants ran this country.
>
> Is it different now?

Well, in one regard anyway.  They are now out of the closet and poisened
the word `gay' forever!
						 - don



From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Tue Mar 12 16:15:01 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A72B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E7DE5.2020308@dragonsweb.org>

Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
>>
>>>The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
>>>deviants ran this country.
>>>
>>Is it different now?
>>
> 
> I think he had drag queens like Herbert J. Hoover in mind...
> a psycho who also kept a noted heroin addict supplied with
> their fix, the addict in question being the doctor of our
> beloved Sen. Joseph McCarthy...
> 
> the things you learn once they're dead in the grave... just
> wait till Reagan's been gone a while...
> 
> -dq
> 
> 
> 

I did not have sex with that woman! :-)

That's as far as I'm gonna go with this off-topic.

jbdigriz


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 12 16:17:15 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> <00b601c1c947$84e5d3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C8E7E6B.1040408@aurora.regenstrief.org>

John Allain wrote:

> I remember there being a thread about problems dealing
> with an ebay userid elobby.  I have a lead on where that
> person moved to for anyone who has valid unresolved
> issues with that dealer.
> Available off list.


Hi, I dealt with elobby before (bought a DSSI drive last
year when they were 10 times more expensive than today :-)
and he shipped promptly and fine. I noticed he was gone
from ebay since a couple of months ago. What happened?


regards

-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From geneb at deltasoft.com  Tue Mar 12 16:23:56 2002
From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <3C8E5253.4BE641D4@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

J. Edgar Hoover.

g.
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:

> Care to elaborate?
> 
> Chad
> 
> Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm not taking about curmudgeons, I'm talking about the generally
> > > accepted view by most everyone, including people that weren't around
> > > then.
> > 
> > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > deviants ran this country.
> > 
> > Peace...  Sridhar
> 
> 

-- 
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.



From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Tue Mar 12 16:26:35 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8E809B.C26AC415@jetnet.ab.ca>

Don Maslin wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > > deviants ran this country.
> >
> > Is it different now?
> 
> Well, in one regard anyway.  They are now out of the closet and poisened
> the word `gay' forever!
>                                                  - don

I really don't care about the sex life of XXX. That is a private matter.
I thought in the 1950's it was more COMMIE hunters and more race hatred
than
sex.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 16:38:59 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: FS: Narrow SCSI tower, pick up only
References:  <3C8E5E41.D145CA85@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E8383.459ACABC@internet1.net>

oops, that was meant to be private.

Chad

From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 16:43:57 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8E84AD.9FE11355@internet1.net>

I knew where you were going.  It's just that for many, soldered in does
mean "non-replaceable", especially when the manufacturer uses those
chips that aren't recognizable as uarts.  I don't know if everything is
on one chip or what, but I've seen some serial boards that only had a
very few chips and none looked like uarts to me.  Also, surface mount
chips would be hard, since they are usually so small, although, I don't
think uarts are made that way, none that I've noticed any way.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > The uart chips in this board are socketed, which makes them very easily
> > replaceable.
> 
> OK...
> 
> What I was commenting on (indirectly) is the idea that many PC-users have
> that you _can't_ replace soldered-in chips, and you can't upgrade a 16450
> to a 16550 if it's soldered in. Things like that. I don't want those sort
> of ideas polluting this list :-)
> 
> -tony

From donm at cts.com  Tue Mar 12 16:44:05 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <3C8E809B.C26AC415@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:

> Don Maslin wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > > > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > > > deviants ran this country.
> > >
> > > Is it different now?
> >
> > Well, in one regard anyway.  They are now out of the closet and poisened
> > the word `gay' forever!
> >                                                  - don
>
> I really don't care about the sex life of XXX. That is a private matter.
> I thought in the 1950's it was more COMMIE hunters and more race hatred
> than sex.
> --
> Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
>

Nor do I.  My `carp' is about despoiling the language!

						 - don



From vance at ikickass.org  Tue Mar 12 16:50:55 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > deviants ran this country.
>
> Is it different now?

Sure!  Now the leaders are openly deviant!

Peace...  Sridhar


From vance at ikickass.org  Tue Mar 12 16:52:43 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <3C8E5253.4BE641D4@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:

> Care to elaborate?

I got three words for you.  J. Edgar Hoover

Peace...  Sridhar


From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 12 17:07:52 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Not sure of computer or salvage places since I haven't lived there since '76
(I was born and raised in Chi-town though) but for recreation on an
inquisitive or "nred" scale you might take a full day at the Museum of
Science and Industry around 55th and Michigan Ave (south side but on the
lake). Their full directions and info are on the web at
http://www.msichicago.org/

My sister saw the "networld" exhibit and (although she's a commoner) she
though it was very interesting and informative. Some exhibits will always be
part of the museum, like the U-505 sub, the coal mine, chick hatchery,
yesterday's main street, etc - some are there but get a regular updating to
keep them current. They used to have one hell of a model train layout in the
lobby - not sure if it's still there or not.

Just a little insight to entertainment & educational things in case you zero
out on old iron sources.

Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body slices" I saw a
pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around 1979, the last
time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a link to my ex
and let her have a good laugh.

http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of g@kurico.com
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:18 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=>
=>
=> I'll be in the Chicago metro area later this week.  Any
=> interesting places to visit
=> (from a classiccmp perspective that is)?
=>
=> George
=>


From dan at ekoan.com  Tue Mar 12 18:12:13 2002
From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312190644.0724ea20@enigma>

I'd also be interested in hearing about places in the
Chicago area, even as far out as Rockford and
Milwaukee.  Thrift shops in Chicagoland just aren't
the same as the ones here in the Washington D.C.
area, but for general hardware stuff an interesting
chain to visit there is American Science and Surplus.
I've been to the Chicago and Geneva stores in years
past, and there's always something unusual or
interesting -- but not necessarily computer-related.
They have a website now, http://www.sciplus.com .


Cheers,

Dan
http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Tue Mar 12 19:21:28 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA998.F954465@adelphia.net>

nope.. you need an SMD disk controller for these guys... nice drives though..
used to have a room full of them...


Chris Craft wrote:

> SMD drives hook up to a KDA50, yes?
>
> -Chris
>
> On Monday 11 March 2002 22:06, you wrote:
> > ... and if somebody wants to build a controller, I've still got a couple of
> > the WD1050's, which are SMD controller IC's.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 7:50 PM
> > Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
> >
> > >    I have a Super Eagle and (I think) six Eagles still available for
> > > pickup in the Seattle area. Some should be working but others may not be,
> > > all are as-is. It really pains me to just toss old hardware, but I don't
> > > have space to have these just sitting around anymore, so unless I hear
> > > from somebody by the end of the month, they're bound for the dump. I
> > > almost had a deal for them at the end of 2000, but I suspect that was
> > > just before the Computer Garage had to move, which is enough for anybody
> > > to deal with at once.
> > >
> > >    --James B.

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 19:35:42 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: RX02 / DSD440 / SA801 problem
In-Reply-To: <3C8D1C23.ADE0ABC8@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: 



On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote:

> 6 and 8 on : "indeterminate density" .
> Maybe the floppydisc itself is marginal ?

There's nothing in the drive when this is happening.  Maybe when it tries
to move, its checking for density?
 
> 5, 6 and 8 : "invalid drive status during seek"
> 
> Give me a fax number off-list and I'll fax you the complete LED-decoding
> list.

Cool, thanks! 

-Tom


From tom at sba.miami.edu  Tue Mar 12 19:42:01 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:19 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <200203122146.g2CLkts06395@shell1.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: 


On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> Yes, it is possible.  The real trick is finding a SCSI CD-ROM that will work
> with your SCSI Adapter!  In my case I'm using a Viking QDT with a DEC RRD-42
> drive (I think that's the right drive, it's the one that uses standard
> caddies).

Yeah, the RRD40 was the one with the special DEC caddies where you never
had to touch the CD.  I think I still have one somewhere.  RRD42 used the
standard caddies, and was double speed I believe.  RRD43 was the one where
the disk snapped into it, and the RRD45 was the 4x speed tray one, and the
RRD46 was the 12x speed tray one.  I'll have to see what I have.  Its more
than likely going to be an RRD43 though, but I would think it would work.  

> I feel a lot safer being able to restore from CD's rather than old
> flakey TK50's.  Basically you just burn a disk image of a HD that's
> been built on that controller to a CD-R.  I've done this for RT-11,
> RSX-11M, and RSX-11M+.  Of the three RT-11 complains the least about
> being on CD.  The two RSX's I tried *really* don't like it, but appear
> to come up enough that I should be able to copy them to a real HD.

I may give this a shot then.  I think its my best option.  

-Tom


From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 19:42:21 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8EAE7D.22DE1F65@internet1.net>

Haha, thats too cool, to to find yourself on the web!!  How old were you
and your ex then?  

Hope you don't mind me saying..... she was cute..... ok, you were cute
too :-)

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body slices" I saw a
> pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around 1979, the last
> time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a link to my ex
> and let her have a good laugh.
> 
> http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html
>

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 12 20:03:40 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Yea, I just got two KDA50 sets!
Message-ID: <3C8EB37C.8080804@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi, just got two KDA50 sets off ePay for a reasonable price.
Very calm auction that was. Since I only have one Q-22 bus
machine, I might have one set to trade against a UDA50. Or
may be I should get a side-table style VAX around it. Although
I don't like the high market price for those. BTW: how come
that last year I payed $100 for an RF72 drive just last year
when they now go for $10? I now have 5 DSSI drives and only
one place in a cabinet to run the nicely. I guess it's
about time to get a sidetable-style enclosure or a 4000 for
those.

cheers,
-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 20:10:59 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: FRU help needed
Message-ID: <3C8EB533.B76D4858@internet1.net>

Can someone tell me what RS6000 this planar is from?

FRU 31G9751 p/n 32G1924

I don't find anything with Google and nothing in the "Diagnostic
Information for Micro Channel Bus Systems" and nothing in the "RS/6000
Systems Handbook 2000 Edition".  Any other PDF that I should download
from IBM?

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 20:18:21 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> <00b601c1c947$84e5d3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3C8E7E6B.1040408@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C8EB6ED.6AB4EC8B@internet1.net>

Dave M. bought somthing from him too, and didn't have any trouble, I
don't think.  In my case, he took my $$ and ran :-(

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Gunther Schadow wrote:
> Hi, I dealt with elobby before (bought a DSSI drive last
> year when they were 10 times more expensive than today :-)
> and he shipped promptly and fine. I noticed he was gone
> from ebay since a couple of months ago. What happened?
> 
> regards
> 
> -Gunther

From broth at heathers.stdio.com  Tue Mar 12 20:47:51 2002
From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: New manuals
Message-ID: <20020313014834.3871D27ECFA@mail.wzrd.com>

I've uploaded three more manuals to my site today.

BA11
DRV11-J
DZ11

The last few pages of the DRV11-J is a reference card.
I had plans for more today but our new mainframe was delivered so the day 
went away rather quickly.

I should have RL01/RL02, RM03 guides up tomorrow if I do not run out of drive 
space.

Enjoy.

Brian.
www.webwirz.com

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Tue Mar 12 21:50:53 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com> <3C8EA998.F954465@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECC9D.2050401@dragonsweb.org>

David Barnes wrote:
> nope.. you need an SMD disk controller for these guys... nice drives though..
> used to have a room full of them...
> 
> 
> Chris Craft wrote:
> 

I hope somebody can find room for them. I'd pick 'em up myself if I 
could afford to haul them 3000+ miles. I don't know if they'll work with 
my controllers, but they were commonly used with 990's.

jbdigriz



From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 12 21:51:35 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: <3C8EAE7D.22DE1F65@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

In 79 I was 22 - she was just 23. She was a looker but acted too much like a
hooker - she ran off with someone else, then someone else, etc, etc - I was
her 2nd ex (she was my first and only ex) and now that we're back in contact
I find that she's single again after 4 more (total 6 hubbies including me
and the guy before) and 4 kids.

Me cute? Hey you weren't t he guy in the drunk tank with me 5 yrs ago were
you? :-)

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:42 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=>
=>
=> Haha, thats too cool, to to find yourself on the web!!  How old were you
=> and your ex then?
=>
=> Hope you don't mind me saying..... she was cute..... ok, you were cute
=> too :-)
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Russ Blakeman wrote:
=> >
=> > Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body
=> slices" I saw a
=> > pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around
=> 1979, the last
=> > time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a
=> link to my ex
=> > and let her have a good laugh.
=> >
=> > http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html
=> >


From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 12 21:51:37 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312190644.0724ea20@enigma>
Message-ID: 

That's good to know, I figured they would have been out of business by now.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dan Veeneman
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:12 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=> 
=> 
=> I'd also be interested in hearing about places in the
=> Chicago area, even as far out as Rockford and
=> Milwaukee.  Thrift shops in Chicagoland just aren't
=> the same as the ones here in the Washington D.C.
=> area, but for general hardware stuff an interesting
=> chain to visit there is American Science and Surplus.
=> I've been to the Chicago and Geneva stores in years
=> past, and there's always something unusual or
=> interesting -- but not necessarily computer-related.
=> They have a website now, http://www.sciplus.com .
=> 
=> 
=> Cheers,
=> 
=> Dan
=> http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html
=> 

From g at kurico.com  Tue Mar 12 21:57:43 2002
From: g at kurico.com (g@kurico.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8E79D7.8656.27EF5F4@localhost>

Whoa, I thought you meant that you and your ex were the ones they used for the 
body slices?!?  I bet that was weird to see, at least you could see what you ate that 
day.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Thanks for the tip though, don't know if I'll have time to 
go, how far is it from Fermi?

George

On 12 Mar 2002 at 17:07, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body slices" I saw a
> pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around 1979, the last
> time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a link to my ex
> and let her have a good laugh.
> 
> http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html


From aw288 at osfn.org  Tue Mar 12 22:05:22 2002
From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> That's good to know, I figured they would have been out of business by now.

I used to live at that store.

The coolest computer they ever had was some sort of Naval fire control 
computer - a 3 foot cube of gears and cams. They sold it for $500 (that 
is CHEAP) about 15 years ago.

Check out Maine Scrap metal in Des Plaines. I have seen some mighty fine 
things go thru that junkyard. 

William Donzelli
aw288@osfn.org

From mrbill at mrbill.net  Tue Mar 12 22:29:43 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: New manuals
In-Reply-To: <20020313014834.3871D27ECFA@mail.wzrd.com>
References: <20020313014834.3871D27ECFA@mail.wzrd.com>
Message-ID: <20020313042943.GM18679@mrbill.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 09:47:51PM -0500, Brian Roth wrote:
> I've uploaded three more manuals to my site today.
> BA11
> DRV11-J
> DZ11

I've got most of the stuff that is on the maincoon archives, plus a bit
more:

http://archives.decdocs.org

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Tue Mar 12 22:46:11 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
In-Reply-To:  from Doc at "Mar 12, 2 11:49:04 am"
Message-ID: <200203130446.UAA14776@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> > Do they make a normal SCSI-2 drive that's about 10G or larger?
> > (better if it fits in the 3.5" by 1" (or so) sled)
> 
>   All the 9G+ narrow SCSI drives I can think of ar 5.25" drives.

Actually, I have a late model 18GB Barracuda in this 7300 Power Mac, 
and it's a narrow SCSI 1/3rd height.

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- When you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly. -----------------------

From frustum at pacbell.net  Tue Mar 12 22:55:46 2002
From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago
 area?)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312204446.01fd1d60@postoffice.pacbell.net>

At 05:07 PM 3/12/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Not sure of computer or salvage places since I haven't lived there since '76
>(I was born and raised in Chi-town though) but for recreation on an
>inquisitive or "nred" scale you might take a full day at the Museum of
>Science and Industry around 55th and Michigan Ave (south side but on the
>lake). Their full directions and info are on the web at
>http://www.msichicago.org/

It was quite influential in my life path.  Who knows, maybe I would have 
turned out the same, but besides all the cool off-topic stuff displayed 
there, two of the exhibits I still recall and are more on topic as they 
relate to computers.

One exhibit was a little display about the size of a podium.  It had an 
exposed PC board on top with heavy gauge copper in an odd pattern.  A metal 
"pen" was used to draw a digit from 0 to 9, and based on which traces you 
touched and the sequence you touched them in, it would display what digit 
you had written.  On the front was the schematic of the thing, containing 
many dozens of transistors.  Was it the first palm pilot?  This was 
probably around 1974 or so.

The other display I recall vividly was the tic-tac-toe machine implemented 
as a clacking relay computer.  You could see the relays activating behind 
the plexiglass.  In 8th grade when I understood just the basics of digital 
logic I attempted to design my own tic-tac-toe computer using 
transistor/diode/resistor logic.  I didn't understand how "state" worked, 
so I had a massive tangle of combinational logic.  I probably would have 
had to feed 100V in to the inputs to get a measurable output after so many 
diode drops.  In high school, I had access to a Wang 2200 computer, and 
after a few warm up programs, I wrote a BASIC program to play tic tac 
toe.  My first implementation was along the lines of the combinational 
logic -- just a lot of straight "if this and this and this then do that" 
statements.

I visited there about five years ago and it didn't hold the same appeal.  I 
don't know if it was just that I had matured and the wonder of the world 
has been lost, or if the displays just have a different flavor now that 
doesn't appeal to me.

Ah, memories.

-----
Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net


From fernande at internet1.net  Tue Mar 12 23:51:24 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8EE8DC.65946E2D@internet1.net>



Russ Blakeman wrote:
> 
> In 79 I was 22 - she was just 23. She was a looker but acted too much like a
> hooker - she ran off with someone else, then someone else, etc, etc - I was
> her 2nd ex (she was my first and only ex) and now that we're back in contact
> I find that she's single again after 4 more (total 6 hubbies including me
> and the guy before) and 4 kids.

Not good.  That's a shame she hasn't learned what commitment is, and I
don't say that to be judgmental.  I really wish more people would think
before they cheat on a spouse.  It would save a lot of marriages and a
lot of grief.  Doesn't do the kids much good either.

> 
> Me cute? Hey you weren't t he guy in the drunk tank with me 5 yrs ago were
> you? :-)

Um, NO!

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 13 00:48:33 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga continues ...
Message-ID: <3C8EF641.1010400@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi,

here is the next movement:

After I found out that the ULTRIX 4.5 tape's standalone kernel
doesn't support the 6400, even though ULTRIX 4.5 says it supports
the 6400 and 6500, (duh!) I had to help myself. Fortunately there
is SIMH/VAX and with that I could install ULTRIX 4.5 (manually,
the scripts didn't work). Now I have the image of an RA90 drive
with a proven bootable kernel and the basic distribution that
will allow me to do everything else from there, once that is up.

This is what I did to transfer that image to an RA90:

1) net-boot uVAX-II with NetBSD from my FreeBSD laptop :-)
2) write the gzip-ed image ra90.bin.gz to a TK50 tape

# dd if=ra90.bin.gz of=/dev/rmt0 ibs=1024000 obs=512

3) boot VAX6400 with VMS
4) on VMS transfer the gzip-ed file to a VMS disk file

$ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512/RECORD=512 MUC6:
$ COPY MUC6: RA90_BIN.GZ

5) mount an RA90 disk forreign

$ MOUNT/FOREIGN DUA1:

6) unzip and transfer to that disk

$ GZIP :== $SYS$ROOT:[GUNTHER]GZIP.EXE
$ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT DUA1:
$ GZIP -d -c RA90_BIN.GZ

the hope is that the above would emulate what on UNIX
would have been:

# gzip -d -c ra90.bin.gz |dd of=/dev/rra1c bs=512

7) that takes forever. After an hour or so, I stopped the
process, because I figured I didn't have to write all those
trailing zero-bytes to the disk.

8) cheked if anything reasonable had been written to the disk

$ TYPE DUA1:

and indeed, garbage shows up that looks like it is the first
blocks of that image.

8) reboot VAX6400

 >>> BOOT /R:0001000B /XMI:B DUA1

when it comes to loading system software, it immediately HALTs
after accessing the disk for a moment. Sounds to me as if
it didn't quite get a proper executable master boot block.

The question to all VMS gurus is then: did I do anything wrong
with the mount/foreign dua1, what is the blocking used? Since
I cannot specify /block and /record for disks, I assume that
the block is one sector. Does VMS write to the sectors in a
different ordering? Does a mount/foreign spare the master boot
blocks and begin writing with an offset of a few sectors?

Thanks,
-Gunther

PS: I guess if noone can give me a hunch on how to do this simple
thing with VMS, I will just have to wait until I get my KDA50 boards
to use with my uVAX-II so that I can write the disk using NetBSD.
Ah the fun of interfacing!

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:29:24 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Commodore tape drive
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313012747.03ff3d40@mail.zipcon.net>

I have a commodore tape drive from a Vic 20, it may also work with a C= 64 
it's available for postage if anyone is interested, I need to know if 
there's interest in the tape drive by this Friday, the 15th, otherwise it's 
off to goodwill for it.


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:32:32 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013136.03fef470@mail.zipcon.net>

I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive, etc... 
anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good / 
appreciate home?


From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk  Wed Mar 13 03:33:21 2002
From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (D Peksa)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC
Message-ID: <200203130933.JAA08027@thor.cf.ac.uk>

Sorry about the HTML - I have now discovered a difference between 
Pegasus mail V3 and Pegasus mail v4 - V3 worked properly, V4 puts
****ing HTML everywhere ****ing where.

Apologies

Doug.

From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:33:53 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013323.03fe8180@mail.zipcon.net>

um, it would be better to swap the paper pickup parts from the laserwriter 
to the HP-II



At 03:34 PM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>does anyone know if it is safe to yank the logic board from an HP
>LaserJet II and stick it into an Apple Laserwriter II NT. I know they are
>the same printer engine, with just minorly different features (Apple has
>no font slots for instance).
>
>I have a pseduo broken HP and a fully working Apple, but I want the
>parallel interface. So rather than buying a kit to fix the paper pickup
>problem the HP has, I was thinking of just swapping logic boards.
>
>Is this possible? or will I blow something? (I'd rather not just blindly
>experiment, since I am running short of working laser printers, and can't
>afford to trash these)
>
>-chris
>
>


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:36:36 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013416.03fe7ec0@mail.zipcon.net>

At 03:34 PM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>does anyone know if it is safe to yank the logic board from an HP
>LaserJet II and stick it into an Apple Laserwriter II NT. I know they are
>the same printer engine, with just minorly different features (Apple has
>no font slots for instance).

No, you can't the connectors from the logic board to the print engine are 
different.


>I have a pseduo broken HP and a fully working Apple, but I want the
>parallel interface. So rather than buying a kit to fix the paper pickup
>problem the HP has, I was thinking of just swapping logic boards.

If yours has the standard HPLJ-II paper pickup problem, you can get a 
bottle of rubber renu and thoroughly clean the pickup roller and that will 
usually fix your problem.  if that isn't the problem, email me with what is 
broken, i -MAY- have spare parts here in a LJ-II I have with a fried logic 
board that I use for donor parts.


>Is this possible? or will I blow something? (I'd rather not just blindly
>experiment, since I am running short of working laser printers, and can't
>afford to trash these)


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:38:28 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013816.03fe9500@mail.zipcon.net>

At 11:22 PM 3/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
> > -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are
> > replaceable, with cable)
>
>I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is..

Soldered in?


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:40:24 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Sears SR3000
In-Reply-To: <4c.7ec40cd.29bed2c5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313014018.03fe7ae0@mail.zipcon.net>

At 10:40 PM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know where I can find ribbon for the old dot matrix Sears SR3000
>printer? Thanks


http://www.wescottcompany.com/typecorr_o-z.htm


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 13 03:43:05 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Altos 580 
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313014149.03fe9670@mail.zipcon.net>

At 01:00 AM 3/12/02 -0600, you wrote:


>   With a little luck, it's still on there.  With the way my luck has run
>lately, somebody will chime in tonight with the entire archive....
>   Guess I'll tell my friend to bring it on over.

On the altos, if it is one of the models that uses a HDD, and you find the 
formatting software, it's going to ask youfor a password to format the HD, 
it's ALTOS backwards....


From foo at siconic.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: OT: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <200203130933.JAA08027@thor.cf.ac.uk>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, D Peksa wrote:

> Sorry about the HTML - I have now discovered a difference between
> Pegasus mail V3 and Pegasus mail v4 - V3 worked properly, V4 puts
> ****ing HTML everywhere ****ing where.

No it doesn't, so don't blame Pegasus.  I use Pegasus V4 as well, upgraded
from V3.  You had to have turned on HTML in e-mail for it to do
that...don't try to scapegoat Pegasus.

Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
software.

http://www.pmail.com

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From rhb57 at vol.com  Wed Mar 13 06:18:18 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago area?)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312204446.01fd1d60@postoffice.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: 

Don't forget the U-505's computer...

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> there, two of the exhibits I still recall and are more on topic as they
=> relate to computers.
=>
=> One exhibit was a little display about the size of a podium.  It had an
=> exposed PC board on top with heavy gauge copper in an odd
=> pattern.  A metal
=> "pen" was used to draw a digit from 0 to 9, and based on which
=> traces you
=> touched and the sequence you touched them in, it would display
=> what digit
=> you had written.  On the front was the schematic of the thing,
=> containing
=> many dozens of transistors.  Was it the first palm pilot?  This was
=> probably around 1974 or so.
=>
=> The other display I recall vividly was the tic-tac-toe machine
=> implemented
=> as a clacking relay computer.  You could see the relays
=> activating behind
=> the plexiglass.  In 8th grade when I understood just the basics
=> of digital
=> logic I attempted to design my own tic-tac-toe computer using
=> transistor/diode/resistor logic.  I didn't understand how
=> "state" worked,
=> so I had a massive tangle of combinational logic.  I probably would have
=> had to feed 100V in to the inputs to get a measurable output
=> after so many
=> diode drops.  In high school, I had access to a Wang 2200 computer, and
=> after a few warm up programs, I wrote a BASIC program to play tic tac
=> toe.  My first implementation was along the lines of the combinational
=> logic -- just a lot of straight "if this and this and this then do that"
=> statements.
=>
=> I visited there about five years ago and it didn't hold the same
=> appeal.  I
=> don't know if it was just that I had matured and the wonder of the world
=> has been lost, or if the displays just have a different flavor now that
=> doesn't appeal to me.
=>
=> Ah, memories.
=>
=> -----
=> Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net
=>
=>


From rhb57 at vol.com  Wed Mar 13 06:28:48 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: <3C8E79D7.8656.27EF5F4@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Batavia is mostly west from Chicago - the I-88 tollway brings you into the
Eisenhower Expressway which will take you to tthe 1-90/94 Kennedy, then as
it goes south it becomes the Dan Ryan. There is a map for Fermi at their web
site:

http://www.fnal.gov/pub/visiting/hours/index.html

On the BW map you'll see where Ill Inst of tech is (known as IIT) - that's
the general area where MSI is at - it should be just east of IIT on 55th. Of
course there are other ways too, like going downtown when you dome into the
city on I-290 then going south on Michigan Ave (less of "the hood" to to go
thru, a lot longer trip)

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of g@kurico.com
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:58 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=>
=>
=> Whoa, I thought you meant that you and your ex were the ones
=> they used for the
=> body slices?!?  I bet that was weird to see, at least you could
=> see what you ate that
=> day.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Thanks for the tip though, don't
=> know if I'll have time to
=> go, how far is it from Fermi?
=>
=> George
=>
=> On 12 Mar 2002 at 17:07, Russ Blakeman wrote:
=>
=> > Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body
=> slices" I saw a
=> > pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around
=> 1979, the last
=> > time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a
=> link to my ex
=> > and let her have a good laugh.
=> >
=> > http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html
=>


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Wed Mar 13 06:40:33 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Free SMD disks: Eagles and Super Eagle
References: <20020312025016.14825.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com> <004e01c1c983$aada0c40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <02031211180203.26202@ccraft.springsips.com> <3C8EA998.F954465@adelphia.net> <3C8ECC9D.2050401@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <3C8F48C1.B7664724@adelphia.net>

yes... they should work on your 990... in my opinion Eagles were the finest drives
manufactured at that time... they just ran and ran and ran .....



"James B. DiGriz" wrote:

> David Barnes wrote:
> > nope.. you need an SMD disk controller for these guys... nice drives though..
> > used to have a room full of them...
> >
> >
> > Chris Craft wrote:
> >
>
> I hope somebody can find room for them. I'd pick 'em up myself if I
> could afford to haul them 3000+ miles. I don't know if they'll work with
> my controllers, but they were commonly used with 990's.
>
> jbdigriz

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk  Wed Mar 13 07:04:57 2002
From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (D Peksa)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: DEC distribution tapes - VAX vs RISC
Message-ID: <200203131304.NAA05126@thor.cf.ac.uk>

my previous message without html - I hope

 > 2) Ultrix-32 V2.2-1 Supp TK50 1988
 >
 > With this tape marked 'SUPP' I suspect that I
 > only have the one tape of a multi-tape set.
 
 IIRC there were only two tapes in the set - SUPP
 and UNSUPP. SUPP (which you have) is the only one
 you require to get going.
 
 > What are you considering new?  I am looking at
 > the Ultrix 4.x Basic Installation guide dated
 > 1990 and it lists over a dozen uVAX's,
 > VAXservers, and VAXstations.
 
 I have seen an:
 
 ULTRIX AND UWS V4.3 SUPP/UNSUPP (VAX) 
 
 CD from September 1992 and note that a VAX
 CD-ROM for Ultrix is mentioned in ULTRIX V4.4
 documenmtation. So it looks like VAX was
 supported by ULTRIX until ULTRIX expired (can't
 remember - was there an ULTRIX V4.5)
 
 Doug.

From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co  Wed Mar 13 07:21:50 2002
From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <3C8E84AD.9FE11355@internet1.net>
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020313082150.01f0b1bc@pop1.epm.net.co>

At 05:43 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Also, surface mount
>chips would be hard, since they are usually so small, although, I don't
>think uarts are made that way, none that I've noticed any way.
>
>Chad Fernandez
>Michigan, USA

Yes they are; most recent i/o cards have everything (decode logic, 
buffers, UARTs, even line drivers/receivers) integrated
in a small SMC chip.  Toss and replace.  I like old serial
cards with jumpers, even if they have soldered UARTS and
drivers, because I can fix them and upgrade them.  Plus, they're 
usually double-sided and easy to work with.

carlos.



From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 13 07:22:47 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
Message-ID: <001601c1ca92$2bcd5f00$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

RE: latest string about the "olden days"...

Enough, far more than enough on the OT.

Please drop it.

Allison  


From allain at panix.com  Wed Mar 13 07:31:15 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: <3C8D1F0C.99F5E6D3@idirect.com> <00b601c1c947$84e5d3c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3C8E7E6B.1040408@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <007101c1ca93$59f02c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> I noticed he was gone from ebay since a 
> couple of months ago. What happened?

He moved to a new location and changed ID's.
I'm negotiating for a refund (slooowww) after which
time I'll give out the new ID publicly.

John A.


From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Wed Mar 13 07:46:58 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Commodore tape drive
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313012747.03ff3d40@mail.zipcon.net> from Geoff Reed at "Mar 13, 2 01:29:24 am"
Message-ID: <200203131346.FAA29868@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> I have a commodore tape drive from a Vic 20, it may also work with a C= 64 
> it's available for postage if anyone is interested, I need to know if 
> there's interest in the tape drive by this Friday, the 15th, otherwise it's 
> off to goodwill for it.

I need a "new" Datasette myself, so sure, I'll take it if no one has spoken
for it. If you're in Southern California, I can come by and pick it up;
otherwise, my address is

Cameron Kaiser
25040 Stewart Street
DC 1101
Loma Linda, CA 92350

Let me know the damages.

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Magic Eight Ball vs. Microsoft: "Outlook not so good" ----------------------

From foo at siconic.com  Wed Mar 13 07:51:14 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
In-Reply-To: <3C8FB16D.B0EA7964@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Doug Carman wrote:

> Maybe there should be a "Classic Communication" list.

comp.dcom.telecom is the place for this kind of question.

> That's where the problem really exists.  In order to provide
> restriction, you need to restrict specific lines either through telco
> provided restrictions, or through external devices that listen to the
> digits being dialed and disconnect the line if someone tries to make a
> call that is not allowed.  External "toll restrictors" are not common
> anymore because the assumption that all toll calls start with the digit
> '1' is not always true and these devices were not always sophisticated
> enough to do the job.

That's where "dialers" come.  Devices made by such companies as
Teltronics or Mitel should be common as dirt by now.  Most (if not all)
newer phone systems are programmable for call restrictions, so these
dialers should be flooding the market.

I have a some Teltronics and Mitel SmarT-1 dialers to sell.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Wed Mar 13 07:53:00 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020313163503.008352c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:

>     I may be wrong but I thought that it had to be N+1.

Nope, just n, with zero being n=10.

Try it.  It should still work on your local CO lines.  If not, call the
FCC and complain :)

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From bill_r at inebraska.com  Wed Mar 13 07:57:28 2002
From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: 1101 RAM Chips Needed
Message-ID: 

As previously posted, I recently finished building a Mark-8 computer
(8008-based).  It works great - in fact, I just added an EPROM board so I
can run demo programs and eventually bootstrap from paper tape last night.
The problem is, I only have 256 bytes of RAM.  I would like to find 3 more
banks (24 chips) worth of 1101 RAM chips.  If anyone has any they'd like
to trade for a brand new Harris 1802 microprocessor (build your own ELF!)
or other chips, or cash, please let me know.  

(By the way, if you contacted me in the last couple of weeks about the
free stuff, it was all left at Mailboxes Etc. last night, and should be
going out today via UPS Ground.  I'll e-mail the recipients off-list today
or tomorrow to confirm, and let you know the total for shipping.)


From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com  Wed Mar 13 08:08:17 2002
From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013136.03fef470@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 

I've got an Atari 65XE you can have if you want it. No disk drive though.

On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 04:32 AM, Geoff Reed wrote:

> I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive, etc... 
> anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good / 
> appreciate home?
>
>


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 13 08:19:05 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: 1101 RAM Chips Needed
In-Reply-To: 1101 RAM Chips Needed (Bill Richman)
References: 
Message-ID: <15503.24537.534136.995383@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 13, Bill Richman wrote:
> As previously posted, I recently finished building a Mark-8 computer
> (8008-based).  It works great - in fact, I just added an EPROM board so I
> can run demo programs and eventually bootstrap from paper tape last night.
> The problem is, I only have 256 bytes of RAM.  I would like to find 3 more
> banks (24 chips) worth of 1101 RAM chips.  If anyone has any they'd like
> to trade for a brand new Harris 1802 microprocessor (build your own ELF!)
> or other chips, or cash, please let me know.  

  Hey!  Let's see some pics of that Mark-8!

    -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Wed Mar 13 08:24:39 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Ch
	icago area?)
Message-ID: 

IIRC, they were in a great exhibit done by IBM -- not just computers, but
math, statistics and probability also. I never tired of seeing it. Too bad
that exhibit got pulled a number of years ago. 

Most of the exhibits have corporate sponsors, which often means they have
the content and intellectual level of your average TV commercial. There is a
new exibit on petroleum that includes two sections with arcade games (car
racing and skiing). They are straight, unmodified arcade games. How they
relate to petroleum one can only guess -- OK cars use gas, but what a waste
of floor space.

There are some good exhibits. The one on imaging is about 5 years old and
makes good use of computer technology (SGI and Macs, IIRC). They also have
one of the Burlington Zyphir trains (1930's stainless steel streamlined
diesel). The Navy exhibit is interesing also. The Coal mine is still there,
and has been updated. And the model railroad is still there -- a big O-gauge
layout sponsored by Santa Fe. It is "computer controlled" and might by
on-topic.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Battle [mailto:frustum@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:56 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in
Chicago area?)



It was quite influential in my life path.  Who knows, maybe I would have 
turned out the same, but besides all the cool off-topic stuff displayed 
there, two of the exhibits I still recall and are more on topic as they 
relate to computers.

One exhibit was a little display about the size of a podium.  It had an 
exposed PC board on top with heavy gauge copper in an odd pattern.  A metal 
"pen" was used to draw a digit from 0 to 9, and based on which traces you 
touched and the sequence you touched them in, it would display what digit 
you had written.  On the front was the schematic of the thing, containing 
many dozens of transistors.  Was it the first palm pilot?  This was 
probably around 1974 or so.

The other display I recall vividly was the tic-tac-toe machine implemented 
as a clacking relay computer.  You could see the relays activating behind 
the plexiglass.  

I visited there about five years ago and it didn't hold the same appeal.  I 
don't know if it was just that I had matured and the wonder of the world 
has been lost, or if the displays just have a different flavor now that 
doesn't appeal to me.

Ah, memories.

-----
Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net

From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:37 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
Message-ID: 

American Science and Surplus does have some interesting things, but not too
much in the way of electronics, and the prices are fairly high. I've never
been to the store in Geneva, but if you go out to Fermi Lab, Geneva is not
too far from Batavia, where Fermi is located.

George, if you are interested, I can send you the email of someone at Fermi
who is on the HPLX (HP Plamtop computer) mailing list. Used to be that Fermi
was pretty open (with the Illinois Prairie Path running right through it),
but after 9/11, they tightened up. I'm not sure if it has relaxed again.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Veeneman [mailto:dan@ekoan.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:12 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Interesting places in Chicago area?


I'd also be interested in hearing about places in the
Chicago area, even as far out as Rockford and
Milwaukee.  Thrift shops in Chicagoland just aren't
the same as the ones here in the Washington D.C.
area, but for general hardware stuff an interesting
chain to visit there is American Science and Surplus.
I've been to the Chicago and Geneva stores in years
past, and there's always something unusual or
interesting -- but not necessarily computer-related.
They have a website now, http://www.sciplus.com .


Cheers,

Dan
http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html

From pdp11 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 13 09:36:07 2002
From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth?
References: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com> <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F71E7.6D5EBC58@bellsouth.net>

Bill Bradford wrote:

> (the guy sent me pictures this morning)
> 
> spiffy.

Yes, but it raises the question again about which model.

An 11/83 would be in a BA123 cabinet.  An 11/53 or 11/93 would have 6
buttons on the front and would have the full designation 'Micro
PDP-11/xx' on the logo plate.  The only model that ever had just 'Micro
PDP-11' on the logo plate and four buttons on the front was the 11/73. 
Of course, you could swap parts and create a combination that was never
sold.

-- 
Doug Carman
pdp11 at bellsouth dot net

From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 09:57:53 2002
From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Fun with a DWUBA
In-Reply-To: <3C8E1B4C.6010202@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020313155753.65347.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> Ethan, I'm glad to hear you are making headway in fixing your
> fried board...

I was up to my elbows in the 8200 last night.  I think I've identified
the target pin on the DD11DK that is the destination of the damaged pin
in the first place - BB2 which is defined as a ground.  This is odd because
on the paddle card, the signal is individually routed over pin 30 of JP2 and
is not tied to anything else on either end.

Having inspected the cable carefully, multiple times, I'm still scratching
my head as to how the damage could have happened in the first place.  I
had notes written right on the Unibus cables where they stick onto the
back of the VAXBI - the notations match the docs (I have the DWBUA technical
manual with installation instructions).  I can't even see how putting the
paddle card in backwards would have caused a massive problem.  I'm afraid
to hook everything up and power it on again before I identify what was
wrong.

OTOH, I did drop the T1010 card in the VAX and look for its presence on
the bus.  With the cables disconnected, the card fails self-test (Duh!)
but when I go to read the ident register of the DWBUA (E 20000000), I
get back FFFFFFFF, not the expected value (as documented in the manual).
Having written VMS VAXBI drivers in the past, I can say that this is not
good.  The card "shows up" - the POST shows a "-0", so the VAXBIIC of
the DWBUA is detected, but it's exceedingly unhappy.  I am suspecting
that the card is more fried than one chip.  I'll keep working on it to
see if the card needs a rudimentary amount of attachment to the UNIBUS
to get far enough into its self-test to initialize the ident register,
but I'm not hopeful about it - I think it should show the world what
it is, even if it's unhappy.

Fortunately, I have docs for all of this.  At this time, I suspect the
M9313 UET, the DD11DK, the cables and the T1010 card.  I just have to narrow
down the list of suspects.  I suppose I could drop the card in with the
chip at risk removed and a lead hanging out so I can monitor what's
happening on that pin.  The pin itself happens to go to the outer-most
pad on the VAXBI bus, looking at the board, it's the farthest pad
from the VAXBIIC on the solder side.  It goes diagonally in more-or-less
a straight line to a pin of a DEC DC021C, 4 or 5, IIRC (it's not in front
of me here).  Either that pin sources a whopping amount of current
from the DC021 and it was shorted to ground by a bad cable or a problem
in the BA11, or somehow a very wrong voltage came from the BA11 into
that pin.  It's the only way I can see how a trace can get cooked and
the chip melted at that pin.

Back to the basement...

-ethan


=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 13 10:07:45 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
Message-ID: 

  Yes, I Read The Freaking Manual.  I Googled.  I went so far as to
peruse the ClassicCmp mailing list archives.  *Those* people are
*strange*!
  I think the DEQNA board is dead, even before I started moving things
around on the QBus.  (Yes, there'll be Yet Another "Broke My QBus" Post)
I haven't ever been able to get it even to light up the AUI terminator.
  Next choice is to boot NetBSD off the TK50.
  I have NetBSD running on the VS4000/60 and a TK50Z-GA that works.  I
can tar to /dev/rst0 and then retrieve the archive all day long.  When
my boot tape wouldn't boot on the MV, I wondered if its TK50 is toast,
so I've been trying to boot the 4000 to test the tape.
  All the sources say to:

# dd if=boot.fs of=/dev/nrst0
# mt -f /dev/nrst0 rewoffl

  Then to boot from the tape:

>>> b/3 MKA500     ## on the VS4000

  The tape saws around for a minute or so, shows;

MKA500

  then rewinds and aborts to console

>>>

  Trying it on the MVII gets essentially the same results.  No
meaningful error message, just the HALT instruction.

  A clue would be greatly appreciated.

	Doc


From rhudson at cnonline.net  Wed Mar 13 10:16:18 2002
From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
Message-ID: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>

Hi, All

What is RT-11 most like?

Will it run on Bob Suptnik's emulator?


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Wed Mar 13 10:42:56 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A747@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Hi, All
> 
> What is RT-11 most like?

This one I cannot answer...
 
> Will it run on Bob Suptnik's emulator?

Yes, two versions are supplied on Bob's website.

-dq

From dogas at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 13 10:46:53 2002
From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>

You all know the story.   Talking with an old friend....  Oh, you collect
those???

He's got an Altair with MITS Hard disk controller and MITS HD.  Working when
crated up years ago.  Even the crate was cool, labled "Here lies Hazel, Rest
in Peace"

Here are some pics of Hazel
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A01.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A02.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A03.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A04.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A05.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A06.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A07.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A08.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A09.jpg

I told him about its value and collectability and I was about to get it for
free but his wife gummed things up a bit.  But still, negotiations are
underway and it should be mine soon!  Woo hoo!

;)
- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net




From dtwright at uiuc.edu  Wed Mar 13 10:48:17 2002
From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8E79D7.8656.27EF5F4@localhost> 
Message-ID: <20020313164817.GG5988166@uiuc.edu>

Russ Blakeman said:
> Batavia is mostly west from Chicago - the I-88 tollway brings you into the
> Eisenhower Expressway which will take you to tthe 1-90/94 Kennedy, then as
> it goes south it becomes the Dan Ryan. There is a map for Fermi at their web
> site:
> 
> http://www.fnal.gov/pub/visiting/hours/index.html
> 
> On the BW map you'll see where Ill Inst of tech is (known as IIT) - that's
> the general area where MSI is at - it should be just east of IIT on 55th. Of
> course there are other ways too, like going downtown when you dome into the
> city on I-290 then going south on Michigan Ave (less of "the hood" to to go
> thru, a lot longer trip)

Yeah...but don't go visit IIT.  seriously.  the museum is on the museum campus
by the lake, which is pretty safe and nice, but you REALLY don't want to go
much west of there, especially if you're not from the area...

> 
> => -----Original Message-----
> => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of g@kurico.com
> => Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:58 PM
> => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => Subject: RE: Interesting places in Chicago area?
> =>
> =>
> => Whoa, I thought you meant that you and your ex were the ones
> => they used for the
> => body slices?!?  I bet that was weird to see, at least you could
> => see what you ate that
> => day.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Thanks for the tip though, don't
> => know if I'll have time to
> => go, how far is it from Fermi?
> =>
> => George
> =>
> => On 12 Mar 2002 at 17:07, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> =>
> => > Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body
> => slices" I saw a
> => > pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around
> => 1979, the last
> => > time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a
> => link to my ex
> => > and let her have a good laugh.
> => >
> => > http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html
> =>
- Dan Wright
(dtwright@uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)

-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [-
``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
  For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.''
       Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 13 10:54:46 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
Message-ID: <000801c1caaf$c94c6880$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Doc Shipley 

>  I think the DEQNA board is dead, even before I started moving things

Not unlikely.

>around on the QBus.  (Yes, there'll be Yet Another "Broke My QBus" Post)
>I haven't ever been able to get it even to light up the AUI terminator.

Ok, Check fuses, there are two if memory serves, one on patch pannel 
cable to the board (a visible fuse holder!), the other is on the board.
Even a dead board will power the AUI though that's about all.

FYI: there is a lineup for what order the DEQNA(DELQA) and TK50 
controllers must go on the bus relative to the other IO cards.

>  I have NetBSD running on the VS4000/60 and a TK50Z-GA that works.  I
>can tar to /dev/rst0 and then retrieve the archive all day long.  When
>my boot tape wouldn't boot on the MV, I wondered if its TK50 is toast,
>so I've been trying to boot the 4000 to test the tape.
>  All the sources say to:

The Drive in the -GA will be the same as the one in the MV so you 
can swap it in.  Do make sure the TK50 controller has the dip switches 
set right as some were easily bumped on install.

>  Trying it on the MVII gets essentially the same results.  No
>meaningful error message, just the HALT instruction.

MVII has a very limited console boot and diagnostic compared to later 
models so it's not very talkative.

Allison



From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 13 10:59:12 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
Message-ID: <000d01c1cab0$678e04e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Ron Hudson 
>
>What is RT-11 most like?

CP/M-80 was modeled after it, or DOS on PCs.
Internally the file system is simpler but other aspects 
are more sophisticated.  For IO it's more sophisticated 
than either DOS on pcs or CP/M though.  

>Will it run on Bob Suptnik's emulator?

Yes.


Allison


From msell at ontimesupport.com  Wed Mar 13 11:01:30 2002
From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:20 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313105559.00a41cf0@127.0.0.1>


Doc,


I'm no authority on the MicroVax II,  but don't you have to specify the 
file to boot from?

I believe if you specify a boot flag of "1", that you will be prompted for 
the file to load.

On my Microvax 3100, and my 4000's - if you specify,

"b/1 esa0" or "b/1 eza0", then I will be prompted to enter the file to boot 
from MOP via ethernet.

I guess you would "b/1 mka500" .

(I think). I hope this at least helps you some - if not, maybe steer you 
into another direction that gets you to where you are going.

If you find the answer, please post it. I'd like to know as well.


         - Matt




At 10:07 AM 3/13/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>   Yes, I Read The Freaking Manual.  I Googled.  I went so far as to
>peruse the ClassicCmp mailing list archives.  *Those* people are
>*strange*!
>   I think the DEQNA board is dead, even before I started moving things
>around on the QBus.  (Yes, there'll be Yet Another "Broke My QBus" Post)
>I haven't ever been able to get it even to light up the AUI terminator.
>   Next choice is to boot NetBSD off the TK50.
>   I have NetBSD running on the VS4000/60 and a TK50Z-GA that works.  I
>can tar to /dev/rst0 and then retrieve the archive all day long.  When
>my boot tape wouldn't boot on the MV, I wondered if its TK50 is toast,
>so I've been trying to boot the 4000 to test the tape.
>   All the sources say to:
>
># dd if=boot.fs of=/dev/nrst0
># mt -f /dev/nrst0 rewoffl
>
>   Then to boot from the tape:
>
> >>> b/3 MKA500     ## on the VS4000
>
>   The tape saws around for a minute or so, shows;
>
>MKA500
>
>   then rewinds and aborts to console
>
> >>>
>
>   Trying it on the MVII gets essentially the same results.  No
>meaningful error message, just the HALT instruction.
>
>   A clue would be greatly appreciated.
>
>         Doc



Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066

Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi


"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 13 11:13:35 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 10:07:45AM -0600
References: 
Message-ID: <20020313181335.A15180@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 10:07:45AM -0600, Doc Shipley wrote:

>   A clue would be greatly appreciated.
The tape boot support in NetBSD is typicaly broken. We all boot our
VAXen via the net... So I am afraid to say: Get a DELQA and boot that
beast diskless. This is the only method that works at every time. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From uban at ubanproductions.com  Wed Mar 13 11:20:13 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
In-Reply-To: <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020313112013.008f8ba0@ubanproductions.com>

Very nice! Did MITS make their own HD or is it just a relabel version
of someone elses drive? What kind if disk pack does it use? It looks
a bit like an RL01/2 pack.

--tom

At 11:46 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You all know the story.   Talking with an old friend....  Oh, you collect
>those???
>
>He's got an Altair with MITS Hard disk controller and MITS HD.  Working when
>crated up years ago.  Even the crate was cool, labled "Here lies Hazel, Rest
>in Peace"
>
>Here are some pics of Hazel
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A01.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A02.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A03.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A04.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A05.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A06.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A07.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A08.jpg
>http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A09.jpg
>
>I told him about its value and collectability and I was about to get it for
>free but his wife gummed things up a bit.  But still, negotiations are
>underway and it should be mine soon!  Woo hoo!
>
>;)
>- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net
>
>
>
>
>

From emu at ecubics.com  Wed Mar 13 11:24:05 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8F8B35.B1DE8D6@ecubics.com>

Doc Shipley wrote:
> 
>   Yes, I Read The Freaking Manual.  I Googled.  I went so far as to
> peruse the ClassicCmp mailing list archives.  *Those* people are
> *strange*!

Not really ;-)

>   Next choice is to boot NetBSD off the TK50.

> >>> b/3 MKA500     ## on the VS4000
> 
>   The tape saws around for a minute or so, shows;
> 
> MKA500
> 
>   then rewinds and aborts to console
> 
> >>>
> 
>   Trying it on the MVII gets essentially the same results.  No
> meaningful error message, just the HALT instruction.

Something is wrong with the boot tape ?

What are the LEDs on the TK50 saying ?

If they blink very fast, there were read errors. If not, 
something wrong with the boot tape ...

cheers

From eklein at impac.com  Wed Mar 13 11:25:59 2002
From: eklein at impac.com (Erik S. Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
In-Reply-To: <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
Message-ID: <00f701c1cab4$250d30b0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>

Why can't I ever find friends like that? :)

Congratulations in advance!

Erik S. Klein


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]  On Behalf Of Mike
Sent:	Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:47 AM
To:	classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject:	Wow!  Maybe my next old system

You all know the story.   Talking with an old friend....  Oh, you collect
those???

He's got an Altair with MITS Hard disk controller and MITS HD.  Working when
crated up years ago.  Even the crate was cool, labled "Here lies Hazel, Rest
in Peace"

Here are some pics of Hazel
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A01.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A02.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A03.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A04.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A05.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A06.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A07.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A08.jpg
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A09.jpg

I told him about its value and collectability and I was about to get it for
free but his wife gummed things up a bit.  But still, negotiations are
underway and it should be mine soon!  Woo hoo!

;)
- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net




From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Wed Mar 13 11:26:52 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
Message-ID: 

IIT is around 33rd Street, near the White Sox ball park; MSI is at 57th
street, 3 miles to the south and just east of the University of Chicago (8
hundreds, e.g. 32nd Street to 40th Street, is a mile) The MSI is about 2
miles _east_ of Michigan Ave. Best way to get there is by Lake Shore Drive.
You can get to IIT from the Dan Ryan Expressway.

Neither area is that safe at night. During the day, the IIT campus itself is
OK, but the area around it has a number of housing projects. The area north
and west of the University of Chicago/MSI is a bit dicey, also.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:48 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Interesting places in Chicago area?


Russ Blakeman said:

> 
> On the BW map you'll see where Ill Inst of tech is (known as IIT) - that's
> the general area where MSI is at - it should be just east of IIT on 55th.
Of
> course there are other ways too, like going downtown when you dome into
the
> city on I-290 then going south on Michigan Ave (less of "the hood" to to
go
> thru, a lot longer trip)

Yeah...but don't go visit IIT.  seriously.  the museum is on the museum
campus
by the lake, which is pretty safe and nice, but you REALLY don't want to go
much west of there, especially if you're not from the area...



From tothwolf at concentric.net  Wed Mar 13 11:32:48 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260AEF@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com]
> 
> >   I believe the Indigo2 was introduced in mid to late 1994.
> 
> Oops, I thought it was 92. :)

I believe one of my 4D 'deskside' systems has a '92 birth-date, but the
rest I own were made between '88-'91. I think the latest SGI to be
officially "on topic" is a Crimson deskside. Personally, any SGI older
than 3-4 years seems "on topic" to me, since they are usually unique and
interesting systems.

-Toth


From dogas at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 13 11:38:14 2002
From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net> <3.0.5.32.20020313112013.008f8ba0@ubanproductions.com>
Message-ID: <008001c1cab5$dcb05700$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>

From: Tom Uban 


> Very nice! Did MITS make their own HD or is it just a relabel version
> of someone elses drive? What kind if disk pack does it use? It looks

He said it was a Pertec altho it was labled MITS..

- Mike



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 11:46:11 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?
Message-ID: <20020313174611.91042.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


At one of my usual haunts, while I was picking up a couple of $10 SPARC
IPXs (with lotsa RAM and interesting Sbus cards) and an HP LJIIIsi (also
$10), I ran across an unpriced Indigo.  This means that it will be 
available for sale next week.  The trick... it's been gutted.  There's
no RAM, no drives, I think no sleds, and several conspicuous empty
sockets on the motherboard.  There _are_ two large PCBs inside, and the
PSU is present (but no guarantees it's working).

Is this thing even worth $10?

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tothwolf at concentric.net  Wed Mar 13 11:46:46 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <3C8E84AD.9FE11355@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:

> I knew where you were going.  It's just that for many, soldered in
> does mean "non-replaceable", especially when the manufacturer uses
> those chips that aren't recognizable as uarts.  I don't know if
> everything is on one chip or what, but I've seen some serial boards
> that only had a very few chips and none looked like uarts to me.  
> Also, surface mount chips would be hard, since they are usually so
> small, although, I don't think uarts are made that way, none that I've
> noticed any way.

I've seen these boards myself, and they could be upgraded if you had some
of the dual 16550 uarts in the QFP package, and had the tools and patience
to replace them. Since 16550 cards are so plentiful, it just isn't worth
the trouble IMHO. For dual 16450/16550 uarts in a PLCC package, those are
not too much trouble to replace even if soldered directly to the board.
There is usually room for a PLCC socket too.

-Toth


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 13 11:47:38 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: <000801c1caaf$c94c6880$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> Ok, Check fuses, there are two if memory serves, one on patch pannel
> cable to the board (a visible fuse holder!), the other is on the board.
> Even a dead board will power the AUI though that's about all.

  Already checked the fuse on the patch panel, but I missed the one on
the board.  I'll look at that next.  I also have an orphan cable &
bulkhead set, that I was gonna try.

> FYI: there is a lineup for what order the DEQNA(DELQA) and TK50
> controllers must go on the bus relative to the other IO cards.

  I'm assuming that Hamster's QBus tutorial is correct?  I'm going by
that;

slot 1:	CPU
slot 2: RAM
Slot 3: RAM
Slot 4:	DEQNA top, baffle (black board, no traces at all) bottom
Slot 5:	TQK50 top, RQDX3 bottom.

> The Drive in the -GA will be the same as the one in the MV so you
> can swap it in.  Do make sure the TK50 controller has the dip switches
> set right as some were easily bumped on install.

  OK.  I did find the TQK50 docs too.  But so far, I can't even boot
from tape on the VS4000, where it was made.  I think either the boot.fs
doesn't support the VAXstation, or I'm missing something critical.

> MVII has a very limited console boot and diagnostic compared to later
> models so it's not very talkative.

  I had noticed that, yes...  :)
  Thanks.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 13 11:50:00 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: <20020313181335.A15180@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 10:07:45AM -0600, Doc Shipley wrote:
>
> >   A clue would be greatly appreciated.
> The tape boot support in NetBSD is typicaly broken. We all boot our
> VAXen via the net... So I am afraid to say: Get a DELQA and boot that
> beast diskless. This is the only method that works at every time.

  But, but, but....
  Actually, I'm working on the DELQA angle.  A box that doesn't talk is
essentially useless.
  Has anybody actually gotten a NetBSD boot tape to work?

	Doc


From allain at panix.com  Wed Mar 13 11:51:46 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: DEC TF867 in PA
References: 
Message-ID: <000701c1cab7$bf26c6e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

I've sworn off eBay for a month, but noticed
this, expecially at the price.

It's a DSSI 6GB DLT,  x 7 w/stacker/loader.
It's in PA and currently listing for $20.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008068908

John A.
must not buy, must not buy


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 12:03:30 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020313180330.14507.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Doc  wrote:
>   I'm assuming that Hamster's QBus tutorial is correct?  I'm going by
> that;
> 
> slot 1:	CPU
> slot 2: RAM
> Slot 3: RAM
> Slot 4:	DEQNA top, baffle (black board, no traces at all) bottom
> Slot 5:	TQK50 top, RQDX3 bottom.
> 

Might you have a broken interrupt chain here?  Is slot 4 a Q22/Q22 slot
or a Q22/CD slot?  That air baffle won't grant the interrupt chain very
well, and unless it's in a CD slot, the only device that can generate
an interrupt is the DEQNA.

It's possible to load a bootstrap and hang when the real software kicks
in.  I am debugging an H-11 that has an H-27 floppy interface that won't
work in the chain but will let me load the bootstrap if I put it behind
everything else with a gap (it seems to not let go of some Qbus signal
and when it's properly installed, I never get an ODT prompt).

I don't know the particulars of the box you have, but BA23s have 3 CD
slots, not 4.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Mar 13 12:15:16 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: HP-97 Standard Pac Manual
Message-ID: <20020313.121519.-246165.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



Anybody need/want this?  

$1 plus postage . . . .


Jeff

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From philip at awale.qc.ca  Wed Mar 13 12:21:14 2002
From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On 12-Mar-2002 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> It took a while before even Kennedy's sexual activities became widely
> known, and Eiesenhower's affairs still remain "discrete".
> How long will it take before we find out about Ford, Bush, Carter,
> Reagan, etc?

Didn't Bush p?re proclaim how great Viagra is/was?

-Philip

From emu at ecubics.com  Wed Mar 13 12:25:40 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
References: <20020313180330.14507.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F99A4.CB6909AB@ecubics.com>

Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
> I don't know the particulars of the box you have, but BA23s have 3 CD
> slots, not 4.

So, what do you have Doc ? A BA23 or a BA213 ?

cheers

From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu  Wed Mar 13 12:27:23 2002
From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <58388120@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

Chris,

Thanks for all the suggestions! See below...

--- Chris wrote:
>The PC side _seems_ to be booting up ok (I can hear faint Windows system 
>beeps, and the PC Setup control panel reports that "PC is running") but I 
>can't switch over. When I hit "switch to PC" the Mac's screen goes dimmer, 
>the cursor disappears, and the PC Clipboard becomes the active app, but 
>nothing else happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting. 

In the PC Setup control panel, change the C: drive to a new drive file, 
make it an brand new drive file, with nothing in it (just make a 5mb or 
something). Then boot the PC. You should get a BIOS boot screen, and 
eventually see a typical PC error of non system disk, replace and press a 
key.
----------

Okay, did that. Same result. 

----------
If you don't get that far, then the card isn't working properly. At that 
point, I would verify it is installed correctly (I'm not sure if that 
model card needed a video dongle or not... the Q610 "Houdini" card does, 
and so does the later 586 and Pentium card, although the latter can use 
an internal video cable in place of the normal external one.)
----------

I took the whole thing out and removed/reseated everything. There was one small daughterboard, a long skinny board in the PCI slot (?) and a RAM simm. The only dongles I saw were sound and CD-ROM which I also unplugged and re-plugged. Didn't see any huge scorchmarks or anything like that.  ;)

Question: There is a three-row, 26-pin port on the PC card, for some external device to plug in to. What is this?

----------
After verifying the card is installed ok (fully seated, CD Audio cable is 
connected, and video dongle connected if needed), and it still doesn't 
boot... reinstall the Mac PC Setup software. You want version 1.5. You 
can get it here 
 v1.0.2 
is for the Q610 card, v1.5 is for the Q630/PM6100 card, and v1.6.4 is for 
the later 586/Pentium cards.
----------

Awesome, thanks for the link! Why is the corresponding Apple FTP site's folder empty then? Grrr. Made me think they'd pulled their whole software archive except for patches. 

Anyway I just finished installing that, but result is the same regardless of which drive image I use. One thing I noticed, dunno if it's at all relevant, but when I try to click the popup menu for "Sharing" (this is in the PC Setup panel) it gives me the following error message: "No PC drive letters available. Make sure that "MACSHARE" has been started on the PC and "LASTDRIVE" is set to an appropriate value in your "CONFIG.SYS"." I assume this is for file sharing Mac data to the PC side, so at the moment I don't need to care about that problem...right?

----------
If is STILL doesn't boot... check to see if a ram chip is installed 
directly on the DOS card. If so, remove it. The cards are very picky over 
using the right chip. Remove an installed one, and then tell the PC Setup 
you want to share ram with the Mac (it should default to that 
automatically when it doesn't detect a chip installed).
----------

Okay, I pulled the RAM chip off. I selected the maximum amount of Mac RAM to share (32 MB) and rebooted to make that take effect. Same problem.

----------
If it STILL doesn't boot... let me know, we'll go from there. But by now, 
it should at least boot to the BIOS screen.

Once you get to the BIOS screen, you can then either retry the old drive 
file, or just start from scratch and install DOS or Windows. The card you 
have officially supports up to Win95.
-----------

What's weird is that when I try to switch to PC, I can hear DOS beeps, and I think I am in DOS because if I blindly type dir , I can hear the hard drive clicking away in response. So it appears to be a video thing...? Previous owner said that she's never used a different video cable, port, monitor, etc. before and it worked fine til recently.  ??  Maybe the card, or the video portion of the card, is in fact fried. Sigh.

-----------
You should NOT have the drive file open and mounted on the Mac when you 
are trying to boot from the PC. And after changing drive files in the PC 
Setup control panel, you will need to reboot the PC (but not the Mac).
--- end of quote ---

Definitely do not have it mounted when I try this switch.

Thanks again for all the help...any other ideas?

-- MB

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 12:31:59 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
In-Reply-To: <008001c1cab5$dcb05700$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
 <3.0.5.32.20020313112013.008f8ba0@ubanproductions.com>
 <008001c1cab5$dcb05700$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
Message-ID: <02Mar13.144739est.119071@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

>From: Tom Uban 
>
>
>>  Very nice! Did MITS make their own HD or is it just a relabel version
>>  of someone elses drive? What kind if disk pack does it use? It looks
>
>He said it was a Pertec altho it was labled MITS..

	Didn't Pertec buy MITS around '77 or so?

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From Gary.Messick at itt.com  Wed Mar 13 12:32:28 2002
From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD7044689B9@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:04 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
> 
> 
> 
> It's possible to load a bootstrap and hang when the real 
> software kicks
> in.  I am debugging an H-11 that has an H-27 floppy interface 
> that won't
> work in the chain but will let me load the bootstrap if I put 
> it behind
> everything else with a gap (it seems to not let go of some Qbus signal
> and when it's properly installed, I never get an ODT prompt).
> 
> I don't know the particulars of the box you have, but BA23s have 3 CD
> slots, not 4.
> 
> -ethan

Ethan,

I figured you had already fixed your H-11, H-27 problem.  I did some
digging, and I do have the schematics (C size drawing) and the operation
manual w/the theory of operation section.  Contact me off-list and I'll get
a copy to you.

Gary

************************************ 
If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the
delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may
contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information.  In such a case, you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone.  You should destroy this message and
kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Information contained in this
message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by
nor attributable to ITT. 
************************************ 


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 13 12:44:43 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: <20020313180330.14507.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> Might you have a broken interrupt chain here?  Is slot 4 a Q22/Q22 slot
> or a Q22/CD slot?  That air baffle won't grant the interrupt chain very
> well, and unless it's in a CD slot, the only device that can generate
> an interrupt is the DEQNA.

> I don't know the particulars of the box you have, but BA23s have 3 CD
> slots, not 4.

  It's _supposed_ to be a CD slot. It's aBA123 box,  The docs say 4
Q22/CD and 8 Q22/Q22, and if you look very carefully, there's a line
silkscreened between slots 4 & 5 on the cage.  Putting the grant card
instead of the baffle breaks everything....

	Doc


From roosmcd at dds.nl  Wed Mar 13 12:57:31 2002
From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 9915A
In-Reply-To: <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
References: <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <1016045851.3c8fa11b8bbb3@webmail.dds.nl>

 Hello,

>    Nice find!  I have a couple of these and ONE keyboard. It took me four
> years of serious searching to find it! 

 About two months ago I noticed a complete HP-85 (tapes, manuals and a 19" rack 
with HP-IB equipment) at a local industial recycling facility and told this to 
a friend of mine. He immediately wanted to buy this, but when I asked, it was 
already sold...  

 So this weekend I was at a HAM market and saw some manuals with HP-85 printed 
on them and underneath was the 9915a, which I didn't recognize at the moment. I 
talked a bit to the guy selling it and got it for EUR 20 (about $20), which I 
hope is a good price.

> AFIK this is the only keyboard around. They are EXTREMELY rare!  

 Am I correct in thinking that with the keyboard I can use the 9915A as a HP-
85? Or is the keyboard just a row of digital inputs which can be read out by a 
basic program? 

 Can I do anything usefull with a HPIB terminal? Somebody on the sunrescue list 
mailed me this, but then I've tried a terminal with the serial card and that 
didn't work..

> The tape approach is the easiest to use EXCEPT just about all the 9915 and HP 
> 85 tape drive rollers have gone soft with age. 

 Aha, I also haven't gotten any tapes... Are these still obtainable somewhere? 

> I've made a schematic of it. I'll try to find it but I'm not promising that
> I'll be able to. The "keyboard" connector is also used to output some
> status and control signals so be carefull if you start experimenting with
> it. I've been looking for a long time but I've only been able to find a
> couple of manuals for the 9915 and they're not very helpfull.

 Those schematics would be nice if you found them, I haven't tried hooking up 
anything to the keyboard ports yet in fear of breaking something. The manuals I 
have are:

 HP-85 Owner's manual and programming guide (2x)
 Printer/plotter owner's manual
 I/O programming guide
 HPIB installation and theory of operation manual
 HPIB peripheral installation instructions
 registration and warranty cards :)

   regards,
     Michiel


From vance at ikickass.org  Wed Mar 13 13:03:22 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote:

> > It took a while before even Kennedy's sexual activities became widely
> > known, and Eiesenhower's affairs still remain "discrete".
> > How long will it take before we find out about Ford, Bush, Carter,
> > Reagan, etc?
>
> Didn't Bush père proclaim how great Viagra is/was?

That was Bob Dole.

Peace...  Sridhar


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 13:03:33 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020313190333.9542.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Doc  wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
> > ...Is slot 4 a Q22/Q22 slot or a Q22/CD slot? 
>
>   It's _supposed_ to be a CD slot. It's aBA123 box,  The docs say 4
> Q22/CD and 8 Q22/Q22, and if you look very carefully, there's a line
> silkscreened between slots 4 & 5 on the cage.  Putting the grant card
> instead of the baffle breaks everything....

Well there you go... I wasn't sure that you had a BA123 (I had _thought_
so, but I wasn't sure).  Nice of them to put a little line in there.

I'm sure that a grant card could freak things out.  Some of the quad
cards I have (MSV11P?) let you jumper or unjumper the left side, to
let you stick them in either kind of slot.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 13 13:08:02 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?
In-Reply-To: <20020313174611.91042.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 18:46:11 CET
References: <20020313174611.91042.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313200802.A259476@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.13 18:46 Ethan Dicks wrote:

> There's no RAM, no drives, I think no sleds, and several conspicuous
empty
> sockets on the motherboard. 
If it is a R4k Indigo you can feed it with PS/2 parity FPM RAM. (It
needs four identical  pieces per bank.) A R3k Indigo needs special SGI
SIMMs. 
You can connect external drives if there are no sleds.
What you believe to be the motherboard may be the graphics system.
Remember that a "real" SGI machine is a keyboard processor (typical a
MIPS Rxxxx thing) with a graphics system. Depending on the type of
graphics it can be normal that there are empty sockets. (You may end up
with only one graphics processor instead of four, no Z buffer, only VRAM
for 8 bit color or the like.) But even with only one graphics processor
you get a decent graphics performance. Remember that it is a SGI. :-)

> There _are_ two large PCBs inside, 
CPU and graphics. 

> Is this thing even worth $10?
Yes. The Indigo PSU is error-prone[1], so my advice is get it at least
for the PSU. If you don't get it, you will get a offer for a full loaded
Indigo R4k Elan with dead PSU next week. ;-)

[1] We had six Indigos at the Unix-AG. Five of them have now dead PSUs. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar 13 13:13:43 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?
In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks 
        "Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?" (Mar 13,  9:46)
References: <20020313174611.91042.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <10203131913.ZM5654@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 13,  9:46, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> At one of my usual haunts, while I was picking up a couple of $10 SPARC
> IPXs (with lotsa RAM and interesting Sbus cards) and an HP LJIIIsi (also
> $10), I ran across an unpriced Indigo.  This means that it will be
> available for sale next week.  The trick... it's been gutted.  There's
> no RAM, no drives, I think no sleds, and several conspicuous empty
> sockets on the motherboard.  There _are_ two large PCBs inside, and the
> PSU is present (but no guarantees it's working).
>
> Is this thing even worth $10?

Depends on what's missing.  If there are empty spaces for IC's on the CPU
board, probably not unless the skins are in good condition and you want
them to replace a scratched set.  The special SGI SIMMs (I'm assuming this
is an R3000 Indigo) aren't that hard to find. If it's the graphics board
that's missing ICs, it may be OK -- depending on which graphics board it
is.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From Empirephone at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 13:20:12 2002
From: Empirephone at aol.com (Empirephone@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
Message-ID: <162.a4543e3.29c1006c@aol.com>

Have a 1A2 phone system and I am having a hard time restricting the phones 
from dialing out without disabling the key pad.  Is there any way I can 
program or wire the phone so that I can disable it from making outside phone 
calls??

Let me know

Sid
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020313/3a50742b/attachment.html
From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 13:30:12 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
In-Reply-To: <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313143012.00822680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   Damm. You lucky dog!

    Joe


At 11:46 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You all know the story.   Talking with an old friend....  Oh, you collect
>those???
>
>He's got an     Go read the original message!


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 13:35:26 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?
In-Reply-To: <20020313174611.91042.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313143526.00828600@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   It's not worth 10 cents IMO. Unless you need some of the case parts but
even then it's not worth more than a dollar or two in this condition.

   Joe


At 09:46 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>At one of my usual haunts, while I was picking up a couple of $10 SPARC
>IPXs (with lotsa RAM and interesting Sbus cards) and an HP LJIIIsi (also
>$10), I ran across an unpriced Indigo.  This means that it will be 
>available for sale next week.  The trick... it's been gutted.  There's
>no RAM, no drives, I think no sleds, and several conspicuous empty
>sockets on the motherboard.  There _are_ two large PCBs inside, and the
>PSU is present (but no guarantees it's working).
>
>Is this thing even worth $10?
>
>-ethan
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 13:40:18 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013136.03fef470@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313144018.008278b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

  I've got an Atari joystick that I just picked up.  It was used on a piece
of Martin Marietta test equipment.  Want it?

   Joe

At 01:32 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive, etc... 
>anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good / 
>appreciate home?
>
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 13:41:13 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013816.03fe9500@mail.zipcon.net>
References: 
 <3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313144113.00829c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 01:38 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 11:22 PM 3/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
>> > -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are
>> > replaceable, with cable)
>>
>>I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is..
>
>Soldered in?

  Potted?
>
>


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 13:56:41 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <3C8D90AB.87E49FE0@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Chad Fernandez  wrote:
> The uart chips in this board are socketed, which makes them very easily
> replaceable.
> 
> Tony Duell wrote:
> > ...I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is...
> > 
> > -tony

Awww... who needs sockets?  With a long enough flat-bladed screwdriver,
they just pop right out of the board, don't they?  If not, solid
whack with a 16 lb sledge can loosen them right up.  For the most
stubborn chips, though, I recommend a quick dip in molten iron...

-ethan

P.S. for the humor impared -> :-)

P.P.S. solder shouldn't be a barrier to repair, but some stuff is
much easier than others.  I dislike removing pins attached to
ground and power planes - sometimes it takes longer to free one of
those pins than the other 18 on the chip combined.  Someone with
less experience might easily damage the pads or the PCB itself
trying to heat things up enough to be removed.  As with most things,
though, good tools and practice on replaceable items is essential
before tackling tough jobs.  I can see how people can be intimidated
by a job that starts with firing up the iron.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From red at bears.org  Wed Mar 13 13:58:52 2002
From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Stripped Indigo  - worth how much?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200802.A259476@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote:

> > Is this thing even worth $10?
> Yes. The Indigo PSU is error-prone[1], so my advice is get it at least
> for the PSU. If you don't get it, you will get a offer for a full loaded
> Indigo R4k Elan with dead PSU next week. ;-)

The Indigo R4000 upgrade from SGI included a new, uprated PSU. You'll
probably find an R3k PSU is not adequate to run an R4k Indigo.

ok
r.


From vcf at vintage.org  Wed Mar 13 14:00:37 2002
From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 1
Message-ID: 


VCF Gazette
Volume 1, Issue 1
A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival
March 13, 2002


Hello Vintage Computer Fans!  Welcome to the first issue of what
is guaranteed to be an irregularly published newsletter to keep
you up to date on the latest events and happenings of the Vintage
Computer Festival.

There is a lot going on this year.  We have two major events, VCF
Europa 3.0 and VCF 5.0, and an Open House at our Oakland, California,
facility.


VCF Europa 3.0
--------------

The third annual Vintage Computer Festival Europa is being held
April 27th and 28th in Munich, Germany.  If you have a chance to be in
Munich during the last weekend of April, you should certainly attend.
You'll get a taste of the vibrant computer industry and the varied
computers that were produced in Europe from over ten years ago and
beyond.

For more information on VCF Europa 3.0, visit:

   http://www.vintage.org/2002/europa/

      --or--

   http://www.vcfe.de/


VCF 5.0
-------

As you may well be aware, VCF 5.0, originally scheduled for
September 15th and 16th, was cancelled due to the tragic events that
occured on September 11, 2001.  The necessity for the cancellation
slowly became evident as events transpired over the course of the
three days following September 11th.  At least three speakers were not
going to be able to attend due to the grounding of all U.S. air
traffic.  It was uncertain whether more attacks would come.

In hindsight, cancelling VCF 5.0 was still the right decision to make,
as it was uncertain whether anyone would even want to come to such an
event in the wake of the tragedy.  A statement was posted to the VCF
5.0 website on Thursday, September 13, informing of the cancellation,
and a message was sent to the VCF mailing list.  We appreciate the
understanding we received.

Now that things have thankfully returned to normal for the most part,
it is time to reschedule VCF 5.0 for 2002.  Planning is underway to
hold VCF 5.0 sometime in September.  Negotiations are underway for
securing a venue in Santa Clara (our first choice) or San Jose (our
backup choice).

VCF 5.0 will be more exciting than ever this year.  We plan to offer
more great speakers and many excellent exhibits, but we also plan to
expand attendee participation by adding retro-programming contests
and other events.  Of course we will still have the Nerd Trivia
Challenge to vex even the most ardent vintage computing nerd.  More
details to come!

VCF 5.0 will also be part of a larger smorgasbord of events which is
tentatively being dubbed "GeekWeek".  The VCF will partner with the
California Extreme Classic Arcade Show, the Xtreme Games Developers
Conference, the first San Francisco International Conference of
Hackers, an Atari 30-Year Anniversary Party, and several other
accompanying events including LANtrocity and Super Auctions (coin-
operated amusement auctions).  This exciting combination of events
will become a yearly mecca for geeks from all over the world to
come together and celebrate the joys of geekdom!

Information for each event can be found at the following URLs:

   Vintage Computer Festival 5.0
   http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/

   California Extreme
   http://www.caextreme.org/

   Xtreme Games Developers Conference
   http://www.xgdc.com/

   San Francisco International Conference of Hackers
   http://www.gism.net/sfich/

   Atari 30-Year Anniversary Party (Atari Historical Society)
   http://www.atari-history.com/

   LANtrocity
   http://www.lantrocity.com/

   Super Auctions
   http://www.superauctions.com/


VCF East 2.0
------------

Last year's first Vintage Computer Festival East, held in Marlborough,
Massachusetts, in July of 2001, was every bit as fun and exciting as
the main VCF.  Five speakers, including Eldon Hall, designer of the
Apollo Guidance Computer, and eleven exhibitors, including the Retro-
Computing Society of Rhode Island who brought along a PDP-12 running
Spacewar!, provided a vintage computing retrospective for over 80
attendees.

The next VCF East is being planned for Spring of 2003.  We will begin
booking speakers, exhibits and vendors in the fall of this year.


VCF Open House at the ACCRC
---------------------------

As of Fall of 2001, the Vintage Computer Festival Archive has found
a happy new home at the Alameda County Computer Resource Center.  The
ACCRC is an organization that accepts donations of old computers and
electronics, refurbishes the working computers to be donated back to
schools and charities, and recycles the rest.  Nothing at the ACCRC
is thrown out.  Everything gets recycled!  ACCRC computers are
located on every continent on Earth including Antarctica.

The VCF is busily sorting, organizing and cataloguing the VCF Archive
at the ACCRC.  Shelving is being assembled, walls are being built,
and floors are being swept in preparation for the first VCF Open
House.

The VCF and the ACCRC will welcome the general public to come in and
see how we operate.  There will be plenty of activities, tasty things
to munch on, and tours of the VCF Archive and the ACCRC operations
and pet programs (including the ACCRC Beowulf Cluster and KOOX internet
radio station).

The VCF is also in the process of setting up a computer museum at the
ACCRC and building facilities for our documentation and software
archive library so that it can finally be offered for use by the
general public.  We're hoping to finish the remodeling effort within
a few weeks but we're still searching for needed materials.  We'd like
to find recycled computer flooring to improve the floor in the area
where we are setting up the library.  Might you know of where we can
get some?  If so, please let us know by sending an e-mail message to
.  Any flooring donated will qualify as a tax
deductible charitable donation to the ACCRC.

Once we have the archive organized and the library completed, we'll
announce the dates for what will become the first annual VCF Open
House.  We're very excited at the prospect of finally having a public
venue to share the VCF Archive on a year-round basis.

For more information on the Alameda County Computer Resource Center,
please visit their website:

   http://www.accrc.org/

To listen to KOOX internet radio, visit their Screaming Streaming
Audio website:

   http://www.koox.net/

If you have computer flooring to donate, or know of someone who does,
please contact us at .


VCF on MediaTelevision
----------------------

MediaTelevision, a Canadian program that "looks inside and behind the
media process", will be airing this week a segment that they produced
on the VCF.  Watch for it on a station that airs MediaTelevision's
program.

For information regarding MediaTelevision's segment on the VCF, visit:

   http://www.mediatv.net/


VintageTech
-----------

The Vintage Computer Festival is proud to announce a new off-shoot for
business and industry.  VintageTech provides services such as patent
litigation support and prior art searches, consulting and props for
the film and photography industry, data and media conversion, vintage
computer appraisals and sales brokering, and general computer history
consulting.

To inquire about VintageTech services or for more information, visit
VintageTech today:

   http://wwww.vintagetech.com/


Classic Tech Eletter
--------------------

Michael Nadeau, long-time computer industry journalist and former
editor of Byte magazine, has launched a new newsletter that caters to
the vintage computing audience.  The Classic Tech Eletter is a monthly
newsletter delivered right to your e-mail box.  Each issue contains
news and stories concerning happenings in the world of old computers
and the folks who collect them.

Subscribe to the Classic Tech Eletter and see back issues at:

   http://www.classictechpub.com/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

That wraps it up for this first issue of the VCF Gazette!  Until next
time...

Best regards,

Sellam Ismail
Producer
Vintage Computer Festival
http://www.vintage.org/


The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their
history.  The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF
mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF
informed of the latest VCF events and happenings.  The VCF Gazette is
guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we
will try to maintain a quarterly schedule.

If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and
therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the
following web page:

   http://www.vintage.org/remove.php

;)


-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From pdp11 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 13 14:07:09 2002
From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
References: <162.a4543e3.29c1006c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FB16D.B0EA7964@bellsouth.net>

Empirephone@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Have a 1A2 phone system and I am having a hard time restricting the
> phones from dialing out without disabling the key pad.  Is there any
> way I can program or wire the phone so that I can disable it from
> making outside phone calls??
> 
> Let me know
> 
> Sid

Maybe there should be a "Classic Communication" list.

The short answer is no.  1A2 key phones have tip and ring of the outside
lines connected directly to the phone, with the addition of 'A' leads
for control and 'Lamp' leads to light the busy lamp.  Once the line key
is pressed, the phone operates much the same as a single-line phone. 
This is what allows the phones to be used when there is no power,
because the rest of the key system really isn't needed for the phone to
be used for placing a call.  As long as the dial is connected, you can
dial any number that the selected line is allowed to call.

That's where the problem really exists.  In order to provide
restriction, you need to restrict specific lines either through telco
provided restrictions, or through external devices that listen to the
digits being dialed and disconnect the line if someone tries to make a
call that is not allowed.  External "toll restrictors" are not common
anymore because the assumption that all toll calls start with the digit
'1' is not always true and these devices were not always sophisticated
enough to do the job.

So, you could ask the telephone company to put toll restriction on your
lines, except for a select few that are separate and not part of the
inbound hunt group.  The non-restricted lines would be made to appear
only on the phones of people that need to make toll calls.  The lines
that are common to all the phones would be restricted.  That was a
common arrangement before the days of electronic key systems with
sophisticated programming features.  People even used to put key-switch
locks on the phones that were wired to disable the dial so that someone
couldn't make unauthorized calls if they had physical access to the
phone.

-- 
Doug Carman
pdp11 at bellsouth dot net

From dittman at dittman.net  Wed Mar 13 14:20:06 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: DEC TF867 in PA
In-Reply-To: <000701c1cab7$bf26c6e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 13, 2002 12:51:46 PM
Message-ID: <200203132020.g2DKK6A28299@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> I've sworn off eBay for a month, but noticed
> this, expecially at the price.
> 
> It's a DSSI 6GB DLT,  x 7 w/stacker/loader.
> It's in PA and currently listing for $20.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008068908

I wanted to buy it for the loader, but they won't just pull
the loader unit out and send it.  I'd have to pay $65/hour
(min. 1 hour) for someone to turn the key and pull the unit
out.  Otherwise I'd have to pay shipping on the whole unit,
and that comes out to a lot, too.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 13 14:23:08 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: Re: Free: older hardware, mainly PC (Joe)
References: 
	<3C8C4F74.BC8D775E@internet1.net>
	<3.0.6.32.20020313144113.00829c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <15503.46380.294787.959203@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 13, Joe wrote:
> >> > -Microchannel 4 port serial board (uses 16450 uart chips, but they are
> >> > replaceable, with cable)
> >>
> >>I am just wondering what a non-replaceable 16450 chip is..
> >
> >Soldered in?
> 
>   Potted?

  Heh...no, that was Sridhar last night.

    -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 14:28:22 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1cab0$678e04e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: <20020313202822.27009.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a lot of respect for hardware that is easily
modified or repaired in a pinch. I got in two VT320's
with only the most vague hint of screen burn in
reverse video (does anyone else think amber is the
worst for screen burn?), with LK201 keyboards and
manuals, $33.00 for both shipped in $20.00 of bagged
foam in place packaging. These are pretty nice units,
one of the best deals I got on eBay. Anyway, I noted
that there is a blanking plate on the back for the
RS-232 port - all you have are the MMJ connectors for
printer and i/o. I found out these connectors and
their crimpers are hard to find/pricey, and I didn't
want to spend a lot of money on these terminals. I
considered removing the blanking plate, putting in the
DB-25 connector (no place on my unit's PCB for one -
odd), and soldering internally to the MMJ's, but I'm
afraid of CRT's, so I found a 6-pin conventional mod
connector, with the tab cut off and sanded and a
little friction tape on the back opposing the actual
gold pins. Works wonders. Wouldn't put it in
production (well, maybe not without some
superglue...), but it works for me.

After thoroughly cleaning the units and washing the
keys, I found a few of the keys didn't work right on
one of them. This is one of those conductive rubber
dome keyboards (and cheap and junky ones at that).
They ask quite a bit for them on the 'net
("refurbished", usually meaning they blow the dirt out
with compressed air).  I can find better PC keyboards
new for around $4.99. What to do. Well, I cut off
about 3/16" of a cigarette filter (with the paper on)
and put it in the tube above the torn dome connector.
I trimmed it a bit after testing the feel of the key,
and it works rather well, especially for my typing
style (not particularly speedy and somewhat
ham-fisted). The filters are made of kapok (some kind
of tropical tree fiber, used in, strangely,
lifejackets, as I recall). I wonder how many others
have done this ...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 13 14:41:53 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>Question: There is a three-row, 26-pin port on the PC card, for some 
>external device to plug in to. What is this?

Looking over the fact that it always hangs at the same place... I think 
what is happening is, it IS booted into the PC... only that 26pin 
connector is for the video dongle, and without it, you just aren't seeing 
the PC screen.

There should be a cable that plugs into that port. That cable will then 
have an RGB video connector to go to a monitor, an RGB video connector to 
go to the Mac's video out port, and a PC Joy stick port.

It looks like the card you have is just like all the others... without 
that dongle, the card is useless. FINDING a dongle is next to impossible 
without getting a whole new card. Some day I will have to sit down and 
pinout one of my Dongles, so that I can at least make available a wiring 
diagram for others to make new ones.

>Awesome, thanks for the link! Why is the corresponding Apple FTP site's 
>folder empty then? Grrr. Made me think they'd pulled their whole software 
>archive except for patches. 

Apple reorganized their software archives a while back... and they made a 
total mess of things. Some stuff is located in odd places, some stuff was 
moved but links not updated... ugh... its a mess for anything in the old 
discontinued software.

>One thing I noticed, dunno if it's at all relevant, but when I try to 
>click the popup menu for "Sharing" (this is in the PC Setup panel) it 
>gives me the following error message: "No PC drive letters available. Make 
>sure that "MACSHARE" has been started on the PC and "LASTDRIVE" is set to 
>an appropriate value in your "CONFIG.SYS"." I assume this is for file 
>sharing Mac data to the PC side, so at the moment I don't need to care 
>about that problem...right?

Yeah, this is only for hosting a shared folder between the Mac and PC. It 
is a VERY nice feature. Basically, you assign a folder on the Mac side, 
and that becomes a drive letter on the PC side... so anything in that 
folder is read/write accessable from both worlds. But it needs a driver 
installed on the PC before you can configure it. That driver is part of 
the PC half of the installer software (I'm not sure it is available on 
Apple's web site... if not, let me know, I'll send you an image of one of 
my disks... although, you SHOULD be able to use the PC drivers that come 
with the 1.6.4 version of the PC Setup software, and those I believe are 
on Apple's site).

I would expect you to see the error you are seeing right now, as you 
can't assign a drive letter until AFTER the PC is up and running 
properly, and the driver is installed.


I would check with the person that gave you the mac, see if they still 
have the video dongle. If they kept the old monitor, they may have left 
it connected to the monitor (I have seen that done a few times... people 
don't realize the dongle goes to the computer, they figure it is part of 
the monitor and try to keep it). If you can't find one, let me know... 
maybe I can pinout one of mine so you can build a new one (anyone have a 
suggestion on the best way to pinout an odd cable? Or am I just stuck 
using a continuity tester and going from pin to pin looking to see what 
connects where?)

-chris




From PasserM at umkc.edu  Wed Mar 13 14:46:24 2002
From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
Message-ID: 

People even used to put key-switch locks on the phones that were wired
to disable the dial so that someone couldn't make unauthorized calls if
they had physical access to the phone.

...

Which were (and are) trivially circumvented by flashing the switchhook
the n times, where n is the digit you wanted to dial, and pausing a
second or two in between each digit.

--Mike

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Wed Mar 13 14:53:45 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net> <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
Message-ID: <3C8FBC59.7050400@dragonsweb.org>

Mike wrote:
> You all know the story.   Talking with an old friend....  Oh, you collect
> those???
> 
> He's got an Altair with MITS Hard disk controller and MITS HD.  Working when
> crated up years ago.  Even the crate was cool, labled "Here lies Hazel, Rest
> in Peace"
> 
> Here are some pics of Hazel
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A01.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A02.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A03.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A04.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A05.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A06.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A07.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A08.jpg
> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A09.jpg
> 
> I told him about its value and collectability and I was about to get it for
> free but his wife gummed things up a bit.  But still, negotiations are
> underway and it should be mine soon!  Woo hoo!
> 
> ;)
> - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Too bad those Fujitsu's are on the other coast. You could probably hook 
one or two of them up to that controller.

jbdigriz


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 15:01:41 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 9915A
In-Reply-To: <1016045851.3c8fa11b8bbb3@webmail.dds.nl>
References: <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
 <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313160141.0082a7b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Hi Michiel,

   Where are you located? I'm just outside of Orlando Florida.


At 07:57 PM 3/13/02 +0100, you wrote:
> Hello,
>
>>    Nice find!  I have a couple of these and ONE keyboard. It took me four
>> years of serious searching to find it! 
>
> About two months ago I noticed a complete HP-85 (tapes, manuals and a 19"
rack 
>with HP-IB equipment)

   Was it on a pull out drawer and in a cabinet that was about 18" tall?
If so I've seen those before, they're a data acquision system and it
usually has a HP 3497 Data Acquision unit in the bottom. There's a number
for the complete unit but I can't remeber exactly what it is. Somewhere I
have a couple of manuals and tapes for that system.


 at a local industial recycling facility and told this to 
>a friend of mine. He immediately wanted to buy this, but when I asked, it
was 
>already sold...  
>
> So this weekend I was at a HAM market and saw some manuals with HP-85
printed 
>on them and underneath was the 9915a, which I didn't recognize at the
moment. I 
>talked a bit to the guy selling it and got it for EUR 20 (about $20),
which I 
>hope is a good price.

    I think that is an excellant price!  The 9915s are very hard to find
and some companies are still using then so occasionally someone will be
trying to buy one.
>
>> AFIK this is the only keyboard around. They are EXTREMELY rare!  
>
> Am I correct in thinking that with the keyboard I can use the 9915A as a HP-
>85? Or is the keyboard just a row of digital inputs which can be read out
by a 
>basic program? 

  No, it acts as a regular HP 85 keyboard.

>
> Can I do anything usefull with a HPIB terminal?

   No. the only way to use a terminal would be to have a program running on
the 9915 that would capture the keystroks but even then everything would be
inside of the program and not at the command (system) level.


 Somebody on the sunrescue list 
>mailed me this, but then I've tried a terminal with the serial card and that 
>didn't work..

   That works with some of the bigger HP computers like the 9000 300s that
are intended to be used with a monitor and keyboard but not with the
smaller systems.

>
>> The tape approach is the easiest to use EXCEPT just about all the 9915
and HP 
>> 85 tape drive rollers have gone soft with age. 
>
> Aha, I also haven't gotten any tapes... Are these still obtainable
somewhere? 

    YES!  You can use the old DC 2000 tapes. These were widely used on PCs
for tape backup. I think they hold about 40 Mbs. But you can't use the 100,
200 or 300 Mb (DC21xx) tapes.  You can also use the DECTapes. But both have
to be formatted with the 9915 or HP 85.

>
>> I've made a schematic of it. I'll try to find it but I'm not promising that
>> I'll be able to. The "keyboard" connector is also used to output some
>> status and control signals so be carefull if you start experimenting with
>> it. I've been looking for a long time but I've only been able to find a
>> couple of manuals for the 9915 and they're not very helpfull.
>
> Those schematics would be nice if you found them, I haven't tried hooking
up 
>anything to the keyboard ports yet in fear of breaking something. The
manuals I 
>have are:
>
> HP-85 Owner's manual and programming guide (2x)
> Printer/plotter owner's manual
> I/O programming guide
> HPIB installation and theory of operation manual
> HPIB peripheral installation instructions
> registration and warranty cards :)

   That's a good start. I'll try to find my stuff.

   Joe
>
>   regards,
>     Michiel
>
>


From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu  Wed Mar 13 15:06:17 2002
From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <58397205@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- Chris and Martin K?ser both wrote:
There should be a cable that plugs into that port. That cable will then 
have an RGB video connector to go to a monitor, an RGB video connector to 
go to the Mac's video out port, and a PC Joy stick port.
--- end of quote ---

Wow, ok. She had me convinced that it "always worked" in this configuration, but that's clearly not true. She must've forgotten all about the Mega-Dongle. 

I have emailed her to find out if she still has it somewhere. Fingers crossed... :)

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

-- MB

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 13 15:19:43 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: Re: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS (Marion Bates)
References: <58397205@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <15503.49775.534274.229802@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 13, Marion Bates wrote:
> --- Chris and Martin K?ser both wrote:
> There should be a cable that plugs into that port. That cable will then 
> have an RGB video connector to go to a monitor, an RGB video connector to 
> go to the Mac's video out port, and a PC Joy stick port.
> --- end of quote ---
> 
> Wow, ok. She had me convinced that it "always worked" in this configuration, but that's clearly not true. She must've forgotten all about the Mega-Dongle. 

  *snort*

   *chuckle*

   BWAAAHAHHAAAAAA!!!

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From kapteynr at cboe.com  Wed Mar 13 15:22:24 2002
From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C7DF6@msx1.cboe.com>

Yes, that IS the answer.
The video dongle looks like a simple cable, but it must have some sort of
electronic switch in it as well.
It switches the monitor between the PCs video output and the Mac's video
output.

As a workaround, however, I remember that you CAN plug in two monitors
simultaneously -- one that shows
what is going on on the PC and another, the Mac...
It is actually pretty cool -- just requires lots of desk space ...

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Chris [SMTP:mythtech@mac.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:42 PM
> To:	Classic Computer
> Subject:	Re: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
> 
> >Question: There is a three-row, 26-pin port on the PC card, for some 
> >external device to plug in to. What is this?
> 
> Looking over the fact that it always hangs at the same place... I think 
> what is happening is, it IS booted into the PC... only that 26pin 
> connector is for the video dongle, and without it, you just aren't seeing 
> the PC screen.
> 
> There should be a cable that plugs into that port. That cable will then 
> have an RGB video connector to go to a monitor, an RGB video connector to 
> go to the Mac's video out port, and a PC Joy stick port.
> 
> It looks like the card you have is just like all the others... without 
> that dongle, the card is useless. FINDING a dongle is next to impossible 
> without getting a whole new card. Some day I will have to sit down and 
> pinout one of my Dongles, so that I can at least make available a wiring 
> diagram for others to make new ones.
> 
> >Awesome, thanks for the link! Why is the corresponding Apple FTP site's 
> >folder empty then? Grrr. Made me think they'd pulled their whole software
> 
> >archive except for patches. 
> 
> Apple reorganized their software archives a while back... and they made a 
> total mess of things. Some stuff is located in odd places, some stuff was 
> moved but links not updated... ugh... its a mess for anything in the old 
> discontinued software.
> 
> >One thing I noticed, dunno if it's at all relevant, but when I try to 
> >click the popup menu for "Sharing" (this is in the PC Setup panel) it 
> >gives me the following error message: "No PC drive letters available.
> Make 
> >sure that "MACSHARE" has been started on the PC and "LASTDRIVE" is set to
> 
> >an appropriate value in your "CONFIG.SYS"." I assume this is for file 
> >sharing Mac data to the PC side, so at the moment I don't need to care 
> >about that problem...right?
> 
> Yeah, this is only for hosting a shared folder between the Mac and PC. It 
> is a VERY nice feature. Basically, you assign a folder on the Mac side, 
> and that becomes a drive letter on the PC side... so anything in that 
> folder is read/write accessable from both worlds. But it needs a driver 
> installed on the PC before you can configure it. That driver is part of 
> the PC half of the installer software (I'm not sure it is available on 
> Apple's web site... if not, let me know, I'll send you an image of one of 
> my disks... although, you SHOULD be able to use the PC drivers that come 
> with the 1.6.4 version of the PC Setup software, and those I believe are 
> on Apple's site).
> 
> I would expect you to see the error you are seeing right now, as you 
> can't assign a drive letter until AFTER the PC is up and running 
> properly, and the driver is installed.
> 
> 
> I would check with the person that gave you the mac, see if they still 
> have the video dongle. If they kept the old monitor, they may have left 
> it connected to the monitor (I have seen that done a few times... people 
> don't realize the dongle goes to the computer, they figure it is part of 
> the monitor and try to keep it). If you can't find one, let me know... 
> maybe I can pinout one of mine so you can build a new one (anyone have a 
> suggestion on the best way to pinout an odd cable? Or am I just stuck 
> using a continuity tester and going from pin to pin looking to see what 
> connects where?)
> 
> -chris
> 
> 

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 15:29:52 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3C8D90AB.87E49FE0@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313162952.00831150@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 11:56 AM 3/13/02 -0800, Ethan wrote:
>
>
>P.P.S. solder shouldn't be a barrier to repair, but some stuff is
>much easier than others.  I dislike removing pins attached to
>ground and power planes - sometimes it takes longer to free one of
>those pins than the other 18 on the chip combined.  Someone with
>less experience might easily damage the pads or the PCB itself
>trying to heat things up enough to be removed.  As with most things,
>though, good tools and practice on replaceable items is essential
>before tackling tough jobs.  I can see how people can be intimidated
>by a job that starts with firing up the iron.

   If you want be able to repair stuff, a decent temperature controlled
iron it the best investment that you'll ever make!

   Joe


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 15:35:03 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313163503.008352c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

    I may be wrong but I thought that it had to be N+1.

   Joe



At 02:46 PM 3/13/02 -0600, Mike wrote:
>
>...
>
>Which were (and are) trivially circumvented by flashing the switchhook
>the n times, where n is the digit you wanted to dial, and pausing a
>second or two in between each digit.
>
>--Mike
>


From kees.stravers at iae.nl  Wed Mar 13 15:58:21 2002
From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:21 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
Message-ID: <20020313215821.2F291210F6@eowyn.vianetworks.nl>

On 2002-03-13 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl
   >Has anybody actually gotten a NetBSD boot tape to work?
   >Doc

There is an image of a bootable tape of NetBSD 1.4.3 which works well.
It is in

ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-1.4.3/vax/installation/

The install docs in the vax directory explain its use.
Kees.


--  
kees.stravers@iae.nl                   My site about the DEC VAX computer
Geldrop, The Netherlands               http://www.vaxarchive.org
http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/
Member of Insomniacs Anonymous  

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 13 16:12:41 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>The video dongle looks like a simple cable, but it must have some sort of
>electronic switch in it as well.
>It switches the monitor between the PCs video output and the Mac's video
>output.
>
>As a workaround, however, I remember that you CAN plug in two monitors
>simultaneously -- one that shows
>what is going on on the PC and another, the Mac...

I don't think there is a switch in the cable, but rather I think it loops 
some signals back to the PC card, which causes the switch over.

And yes, you can plug two monitors in, and run both at the same time... 
BUT... you still need the dongle to do that... as the dongle is the only 
way to get the video OFF the older DOS cards. If you want to run two 
monitors, you just don't plug the loopback portion into the Mac's video.

-chris




From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 13 16:16:43 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>Wow, ok. She had me convinced that it "always worked" in this 
>configuration, but that's clearly not true. She must've forgotten all 
>about the Mega-Dongle. 

Well... there is a chance she is right. If this was the "Houdini" card 
that worked with the 610 (or the Reply branded version)... of if this was 
the 7" or 12" 586 or Pentium cards that work with MANY of the PCI 
powermacs... then I could speak with much more certainty.

BUT... I have never personally worked with (nor own) the card that works 
with the 630 and 6100. I have heard rumor that they in fact do not need a 
dongle, but the problem you are describing, fits with what will happen on 
a 610 if the dongle isn't present... so that makes me think that you DO 
in fact need a dongle for the 630/6100 card.

Anyone have one of those cards they want to give me? (hopefully including 
the dongle if it is needed). It would round out my DOS card collection 
nicely.

-chris




From lists at subatomix.com  Wed Mar 13 16:20:22 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: What would a 20th Anniversary pdp11/93 be worth?
In-Reply-To: <3C8F71E7.6D5EBC58@bellsouth.net>
References: <200203080318.WAA640872@shell.TheWorld.com>
 <20020311162912.GB14293@mrbill.net> <3C8F71E7.6D5EBC58@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <56395059635.20020313162022@subatomix.com>

On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, Doug Carman wrote:

> The only model that ever had just 'Micro PDP-11' on the logo plate and
> four buttons on the front was the 11/73. Of course, you could swap parts
> and create a combination that was never sold.

What's the deal with the *black* BA23 enclosure pictured here?:

http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/updp1123.jpg

Is that just someone's nice paint job, or was this available from DEC? I
kinda like it.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 13 16:28:46 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Docs!  Re: 9915A
In-Reply-To: <1016045851.3c8fa11b8bbb3@webmail.dds.nl>
References: <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
 <200203121709.g2CH9Xp63662@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313172846.00838990@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   I just went out and dug out a pile of HP 85 docs. I have all the HP-85
manuals and (I think) manuals for all of the ROMs and interfaces. I also
have the HP 85 assembly level service manual. No schematics so it's not
real usefull but it does have the troubleshooting procedures and I so have
the service ROMs for the 85/86/87. I also have about 5 or 6 different
programming paks for the 85 including the manuals.  I also have a copy of
the "Series 80 Personal Computer Retail Price List" (PN 5953-7832) that
gives prices for everything related to the 80 series. I also have a copy of
HP's "Series 80 Personal Computers Software Catalog" published by Reston
Publishing Company. This not only list all the 80 series SW that was
available fom HP but also from other third party companies. There was a lot
more SW available for the 80s than you would think! The catalog is over 450
pages long!  Other stuff: (1) HP 85A Self_Paced Learning Guide (for
maintenance) (PN 35106-90001). (Hmmm this has IC pin outs and some
schematics in it.)  (2) "Series 80 Personal Computer" brochure (PN
5953-7853) 80 pages long. (3) "HP-85A Desktop Computer Specifications
Technical Data" (PN 5953-1078) 6 page booklet (4) "HP-85 The Personal
Computer for Industry" (PN 5953-1080) 12 page booklet (5) "HP-85 I/O ROM
and HP-IB Interface Technical Data" (PN 5953-4516) 8 page booklet (6)
"Series 80 Personal Computer Enhancements" (PN 5953-7838) 24 page booklet.

   HP 9915 Stuff:  (1) "The Modular Computer" an 11" x 17" size poster for
the 9915. (2) "HP 9915 Networking system Developement Technical Supplement"
(PN 09915-90022). About 100 pages long and explains how to get the 9915s to
talk to HP 1000s, 9826s, HP 85s, other 9915s, etc. (3) "HP 9915 System
Development Manual (PN 09915- 90010). This includes a general getting
started guide, syntax reference, explaination of the buffers, keyboard
useage, file types, etc. A lot of it is very similar to the HP 85 so it's
not very usefull but there are a few explainations about the function keys
and front panel lights that are usefull. But youhave to be able to talk to
the 9915 before you can use them.

   Manuals that I'm missing include:  (1) HP 9915 Installation Manual (2)
Operator Interface Technical Supplement (3) Tape Duplication and EPROM
Programming Software Applications Pack (4) 9915 Service Manual.

   I didn't find the keyboard schematics but I'll keep looking.

   Joe


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 13 16:34:57 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: 1A2 phone system
References: 
Message-ID: <3C8FD411.90C22127@jetnet.ab.ca>

Sellam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
> 
> >     I may be wrong but I thought that it had to be N+1.
> 
> Nope, just n, with zero being n=10.
> 
> Try it.  It should still work on your local CO lines.  If not, call the
> FCC and complain :)

No ... send them a letter as the phone is out of order.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 16:45:03 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013816.03fe9500@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Mar 13, 2 01:38:28 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 318 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020313/8efa9c42/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 16:51:03 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020313082150.01f0b1bc@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Mar 13, 2 08:21:50 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1694 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020313/e18b9e28/attachment.ksh
From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.26823.1238D038@localhost>

 That's produced by City TV , an excellent Independent station in Toronto.
The media TV show used to come on Saturday around 7 pm and other times
on their News Channel. Unfortunately I don't have cable (by choice) up here
in north-central Manitoba.

Lawrence
 
> If any of you get MediaTelevision (a Canadian program) you can see a
> segment on the VCF sometime this week.  There's a blurb on the segment on
> their website:
> 
> http://www.mediatv.net/
> 
> After the Flash intro, there's a link called "VINTAGE COMPUTER" you can
> click on.
> 
> I'm getting a copy of the taped segment sent to me.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org
> 
>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
> 


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8DC7BB.26522.1E48575@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.29882.1238D110@localhost>

 Heh, heh, . Shades of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The blurb reads;

The sections were prepared in the 1940's from a man and woman who died of 
natural causes. Their bodies were frozen and cut into 1/2-inch sections with a 
power saw.

Lawrence

> Holy crap - just looked at the site and under "human body slices" I saw a
> pictue in BW of ME and my ex...that has to be from around 1979, the last
> time I was at MSI...Weird to see that too. I'll have to send a link to my ex and
> let her have a good laugh.
> 
> http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/body_slices/index.html
> 

Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <3C8E809B.C26AC415@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.13924.1238D0E3@localhost>

 Well if the deviant sexual behavior of a person in an authoritive position also 
includes S/M or something like pedophilia, It would be well to be very 
concerned. At the time, the threat of exposure of sexual deviance, would 
make them vulnerable to blackmail as well.

Lawrence

> Don Maslin wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> > > > The 50's was the time of the closeted sexual deviant.  Closeted sexual
> > > > deviants ran this country.
> > >
> > > Is it different now?
> > 
> > Well, in one regard anyway.  They are now out of the closet and poisened
> > the word `gay' forever!
> >                                        - don
> 
> I really don't care about the sex life of XXX. That is a private matter.
> I thought in the 1950's it was more COMMIE hunters and more race hatred
> than
> sex.
> -- 
> Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8E5253.4BE641D4@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.16271.1238D0B6@localhost>

 How about Roy(?) Cohn, the Senior attorney for HUAC, whose staff included 
John and Bobby Kennedy.

Lawrence

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> > Care to elaborate?
> 
> I got three words for you.  J. Edgar Hoover
> 
> Peace...  Sridhar
> 


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Grid 1520 LT Password
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.23031.1238D13C@localhost>

 I finally got my Grid 1520 , which was locked
Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 17:15:30 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: <58329318@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C8F8932.8943.1238D079@localhost>

 You might try 
a mail list every bit as busy as this is. Dan Knight of lowendmac, who is on 
this list occasionally, moderates it.

Lawrence

> Hi folks,  
> 
> Sorry for the OT post since I know this machine's not quite old enough to 
> qualify, but I have a Power Mac 6100 DOS-compatible with some issues. I've never
> really used one of these so I'm not sure how to go about troubleshooting.  
> 
> The PC side _seems_ to be booting up ok (I can hear faint Windows system 
> beeps, and the PC Setup control panel reports that "PC is running") but I 
> can't switch over. When I hit "switch to PC" the Mac's screen goes dimmer, the
> cursor disappears, and the PC Clipboard becomes the active app, but nothing else
> happens after a good 5 minutes of waiting.  
> 
> I mounted the PC disk image on the Mac side and poked through it, and it 
> looks like there are some major filesystem issues -- open a folder and it 
> contains the whole top level directory listing, including itself -- open a
> subfolder, same thing, etc. probably to infinity. It needs a complete reinstall
> before I can even begin to figure out if there's a problem with the DOS card.
> I'm told that it was working til recently, but this was the kids' computer and
> one of them might've done something bizarre with the PC side. 
> 
> Of COURSE the previous owner has no original CDs or floppies.  :(  I went to
> Apple's ftp site and poked around and found the folder for this machine, but it
> was empty.  :(  :(  
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the original software so I can 
> try restoring this thing? Anyone have one I can borrow (I have a CD burner)? I'd
> gladly pay all postage. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> -- MB 


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From aw288 at osfn.org  Wed Mar 13 17:25:48 2002
From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago area?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> Don't forget the U-505's computer...

Is this even visible in the tour? On the US boats, the TDCs (Torpedo Data 
Computer) were installed in the conning tower, and I would expect the 
Germans to have done the same. Because of the very confined space, the 
towers of the boats are generally not included with tours (or very 
briefly included, as in "stick your head up thru the hatch").

Neat things, those TDCs. Like most fire control computers of the period,
the German ones were not as nice as the U.S. ones, but much better that the
British ones. They were trouble-makers however, being 
overengineered and overcomplicated.

By the way, the TDC in SS-383 in the Bay Area has been completly restored 
and works up to spec. Pretty amazing.

William Donzelli
aw288@osfn.org


From bshannon at tiac.net  Wed Mar 13 18:13:03 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FEB0F.B836C966@tiac.net>

IMHO, CP/M is unquestionably a direct rip-off of RT-11.

Ron Hudson wrote:

> Hi, All
>
> What is RT-11 most like?
>
> Will it run on Bob Suptnik's emulator?


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 13 18:27:37 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: <3C8F8932.13924.1238D0E3@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
>  Well if the deviant sexual behavior of a person in an authoritive position also 
> includes S/M or something like pedophilia, It would be well to be very 
> concerned. At the time, the threat of exposure of sexual deviance, would 
> make them vulnerable to blackmail as well.

Some of our leaders make sexual deviancy look bad.
I don't have problems with somebody being a transvestite.  That's up to
them.  But JEdgar was REALLY creepy.


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 13 18:37:44 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
Message-ID: <000801c1caf0$90dc4100$10f19a8d@ajp166>

From: Bob Shannon 

>IMHO, CP/M is unquestionably a direct rip-off of RT-11.


Killdal did say that DEC OSs (TOPS, OS8 and RT11) 
were the inspiration.  However, one place where CP/M 
was not like RT-11 was the file system as CP/M did 
dynamic allocation with fragmentation where RT-11 
does not support fragmented files.  All RT-11 files
(OS8 too) are contigious.  In that respect RT-11 file 
system is most identical to NS* DOS but the NS* 
dos command structure and IO are must unlike 
RT-11.

Internally RT-11 and CP/M are very dissimilar save for
some underlying concepts such as an overlayable 
monitor, a modular resident IO subsystem and file 
handler.

Allison


From lists at subatomix.com  Wed Mar 13 18:40:20 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: One can only hope
Message-ID: <91403458472.20020313184020@subatomix.com>

One of my previous employers builds industrial security and facility
management systems. A friend from the company told me the other day that a
customer's site (a jail) has some old PDP-11 equipment that they will likely
no longer need when their new system is installed. The friend said that the
jail people said there was a 11/70 there, but he wasn't certain that they
were certain.

If I'm lucky, I may get to do some, um, contract work removing the old
PDP-11. I'm sure I could quote them a very reasonable rate.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 13 18:52:36 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
References: 
Message-ID: <001f01c1caf2$88b2cc40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yes, but even at 50 cents per hour, it's less costly to replace the board by
snagging one from a thrift store for $1 than to set about to repair one.  The
thrift stores discard them by the dozens every day.  So long as they are
cheaper to buy than to fix, I'd suggest one do that.  It's only a matter of
time, however, before the CPU, memory, I/O and everything else you'd want will
be on a single device.  That will help with the packaging, but won't do much
for maintainablity.

I just finished trying to buy some 3-volt logic, and find that everybody in
distribution's convinced that the only thing that is relevant any longer is
1.5-volt logic.  I must have blinked ...

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Free: older hardware, mainly PC


> >
> > At 05:43 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Also, surface mount
> > >chips would be hard, since they are usually so small, although, I don't
> > >think uarts are made that way, none that I've noticed any way.
>
> Oh yes, many common UARTs (and other serial chips) are available in PLCC
> packages that can be surface-mounted. That does not make them
> non-replaceable, though...
>
> > >
> > >Chad Fernandez
> > >Michigan, USA
> >
> > Yes they are; most recent i/o cards have everything (decode logic,
> > buffers, UARTs, even line drivers/receivers) integrated
> > in a small SMC chip.  Toss and replace.  I like old serial
>
> Painful, aren't they :-(
>
> However, the original message said '16450 UARTs'. To me (as a hardware
> hacker) that's a particular chip, often a 40 pin DIL device (although I
> think a PLCC version exists). Single UART, no FIFO.
>
> A multi-I/O chip (or even a dual UART) that happens to be
> software-compatible with a 16450 is _not_ a 16450 to me.
>
> > cards with jumpers, even if they have soldered UARTS and
> > drivers, because I can fix them and upgrade them.  Plus, they're
> > usually double-sided and easy to work with.
>
> Having replaced transistors on an irreplaceable, irrepairable [1] 16
> layers PCB, I don't generally worry about normal multi-layer board any more.
>
> [1] On-topic, very. The main ROM board from an HP9100B. The ROM assembly
> is 4 boards linked by soldered-in pins. Address decoder, 2 sense
> amplifiers, and the ROM itself. The last contains driver transistors and
> an inductively-coupled matrix of tracks that form the bit pattern in the
> ROM. If that ever fails there's no easy way to repair it. Fortunately all
> I've had to do is replace the odd driver transistor.
>
> -tony
>
>


From dittman at dittman.net  Wed Mar 13 19:07:38 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
In-Reply-To: <000801c1caf0$90dc4100$10f19a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Mar 13, 2002 07:37:44 PM
Message-ID: <200203140107.g2E17cW30104@narnia.int.dittman.net>

Since there's been no correction that I've read, the author's
name is Supnik.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From jwbirdsa at picarefy.com  Wed Mar 13 19:10:37 2002
From: jwbirdsa at picarefy.com (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: HPIB ISA cards
Message-ID: <20020314011037.21105.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>

   Who was looking for HP-IB cards? I found three genuine HP 82335 cards
(8-bit ISA) this morning. Condition unknown but they're almost mint out
of the box visually. Available to whoever wants them for postage ($3.50
each in the US).

   --James B.

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 13 19:24:52 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: HPIB ISA cards
In-Reply-To: HPIB ISA cards (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com)
References: <20020314011037.21105.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>
Message-ID: <15503.64484.576907.590956@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 14, jwbirdsa@picarefy.com wrote:
>    Who was looking for HP-IB cards? I found three genuine HP 82335 cards
> (8-bit ISA) this morning. Condition unknown but they're almost mint out
> of the box visually. Available to whoever wants them for postage ($3.50
> each in the US).

  Does anyone have programming info for these?  If so, I'm interested in
one or two...might wanna try to write a NetBSD device driver for them.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From mbg at TheWorld.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:54 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Suptnik and RT-11
References: <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <200203140243.VAA1472941@shell.TheWorld.com>


>IMHO, CP/M is unquestionably a direct rip-off of RT-11.

When we in the RT group got a copy of CP/M, we determined
(after experimentation) that it must have been modelled
after V3B of RT-11.


RT, of course, can trace its lineage through OS/8.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

From rws at enteract.com  Wed Mar 13 21:06:27 2002
From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Free: older hardware, mainly PC
In-Reply-To: <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> trying to heat things up enough to be removed.  As with most things,
> though, good tools and practice on replaceable items is essential
> before tackling tough jobs.  I can see how people can be intimidated
> by a job that starts with firing up the iron.

I am going to make an offer to the list, since it's been helpful to me for
so long.  I am willing to de-solder and re-solder parts for classic
computer stuff if you send them to me and pay return postage.  I have all
three of: good equipment, time, and experience.  I de-solder through-hole
parts with a professional vacuum de-soldering station and I can do
surface-mount parts with pins on two opposite sides with hot tweezers,
pretty much no reasonable limit on number of pins- I have lots of tips.  I
don't have a hot-air rework station for removing quads but I can
do two things there: my usual method is to cut the chip out (I have a
special method to prevent lifting lands) or if the PCB isn't densely
populated I have a hot air gun.  I do soldering by hand.  I solder
size-0201 capacitors at work occasionally (imagine a part that occupies
.05 cubic millimeter- it is smaller than the ball in a ball-point
pen) and so even the 200+ pin quads on today's motherboards aren't too
challenging.

If anyone has anything they need soldered or de-soldered let me know.  My
offer of free labor stands indefinitely.

Richard Schauer
rws@enteract.com
near Chicago, Illinois



From ken at seefried.com  Wed Mar 13 21:16:14 2002
From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: DEC3000/300X memory?
Message-ID: <20020314031614.229.qmail@mail.seefried.com>


Does anyone know a good, inexpensive source for the proprietary 32MB 
DEC3000/300 memory SIMMS.  I'd like to give my 3000 (300X in a rackmount 
kit) some longer legs. 

Ken 

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 21:27:13 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C8FC431.16954.131F4FEA@localhost>

 Nope. No dongle needed.

The 26 pin connector is for an Apple AV monitor. Kind of like the 
Commodore 1084S, only with Apples usual proprietory greed it has a 
different connector. Cant remember the name but it is possibly HDI-26 or 
maybe HDI-45.  Most of the AV Power Macs also had another card which 
would take the Apple 15 pin monitor as well as having 4 S-Video ports.

 With the AudioVision monitor this would allow you to use 2 monitors at the 
same time, as well as sound systems perhaps. No I've never tried it.

 Many people have problems with the PC card designed for the 6100. I
think Apple was just trying to do what Amiga had done long before, only
not as well. Again I would point you to the lowendmac Power-mac site and
dig thru the archives. 

 I have a Power Mac 7100/66 AV as well as a garbage find Apple AV. I would 
guess some MS PC guy threw it out when he found it wouldn't work on his 
machine. It only has the HDIxx connector. Good color and clarity as well as 
sound but it only supports VGA resolution.

> >Question: There is a three-row, 26-pin port on the PC card, for some 
> >external device to plug in to. What is this?
> 
> Looking over the fact that it always hangs at the same place... I think 
> what is happening is, it IS booted into the PC... only that 26pin 
> connector is for the video dongle, and without it, you just aren't seeing 
> the PC screen.
> 
> There should be a cable that plugs into that port. That cable will then 
> have an RGB video connector to go to a monitor, an RGB video connector to 
> go to the Mac's video out port, and a PC Joy stick port.
> 
> It looks like the card you have is just like all the others... without 
> that dongle, the card is useless. FINDING a dongle is next to impossible 
> without getting a whole new card. Some day I will have to sit down and 
> pinout one of my Dongles, so that I can at least make available a wiring 
> diagram for others to make new ones.
> 
> >Awesome, thanks for the link! Why is the corresponding Apple FTP site's 
> >folder empty then? Grrr. Made me think they'd pulled their whole software
> >archive except for patches. 
> 
> Apple reorganized their software archives a while back... and they made a 
> total mess of things. Some stuff is located in odd places, some stuff was 
> moved but links not updated... ugh... its a mess for anything in the old 
> discontinued software.
> 
> >One thing I noticed, dunno if it's at all relevant, but when I try to 
> >click the popup menu for "Sharing" (this is in the PC Setup panel) it 
> >gives me the following error message: "No PC drive letters available. Make sure
> >that "MACSHARE" has been started on the PC and "LASTDRIVE" is set to an
> >appropriate value in your "CONFIG.SYS"." I assume this is for file sharing Mac
> >data to the PC side, so at the moment I don't need to care about that
> >problem...right?
> 
> Yeah, this is only for hosting a shared folder between the Mac and PC. It 
> is a VERY nice feature. Basically, you assign a folder on the Mac side, 
> and that becomes a drive letter on the PC side... so anything in that 
> folder is read/write accessable from both worlds. But it needs a driver 
> installed on the PC before you can configure it. That driver is part of 
> the PC half of the installer software (I'm not sure it is available on 
> Apple's web site... if not, let me know, I'll send you an image of one of 
> my disks... although, you SHOULD be able to use the PC drivers that come 
> with the 1.6.4 version of the PC Setup software, and those I believe are 
> on Apple's site).
> 
> I would expect you to see the error you are seeing right now, as you 
> can't assign a drive letter until AFTER the PC is up and running 
> properly, and the driver is installed.
> 
> 
> I would check with the person that gave you the mac, see if they still 
> have the video dongle. If they kept the old monitor, they may have left 
> it connected to the monitor (I have seen that done a few times... people 
> don't realize the dongle goes to the computer, they figure it is part of 
> the monitor and try to keep it). If you can't find one, let me know... 
> maybe I can pinout one of mine so you can build a new one (anyone have a 
> suggestion on the best way to pinout an odd cable? Or am I just stuck 
> using a continuity tester and going from pin to pin looking to see what 
> connects where?)
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 21:27:14 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C8FC432.5333.131F502B@localhost>

 I think they only work with the Power Mac 6xxx series, otherwise:

 I GET FIRST DIBS  !!!!

Lawrence 

> >Wow, ok. She had me convinced that it "always worked" in this 
> >configuration, but that's clearly not true. She must've forgotten all 
> >about the Mega-Dongle. 
> 
> Well... there is a chance she is right. If this was the "Houdini" card 
> that worked with the 610 (or the Reply branded version)... of if this was 
> the 7" or 12" 586 or Pentium cards that work with MANY of the PCI 
> powermacs... then I could speak with much more certainty.
> 
> BUT... I have never personally worked with (nor own) the card that works 
> with the 630 and 6100. I have heard rumor that they in fact do not need a 
> dongle, but the problem you are describing, fits with what will happen on 
> a 610 if the dongle isn't present... so that makes me think that you DO 
> in fact need a dongle for the 630/6100 card.
> 
> Anyone have one of those cards they want to give me? (hopefully including 
> the dongle if it is needed). It would round out my DOS card collection 
> nicely.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From einy at coxa.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 13 21:31:34 2002
From: einy at coxa.fsnet.co.uk (Einstein Site)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Tatung Einstein disks
Message-ID: <000601c1cb08$beef1140$db62fea9@l5f7r3>

Downloads for the tatung einstein tc01 and other info at"http://members.lycos.co.uk/albertstc01"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020313/f0f733e9/attachment.html
From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Mar 13 21:43:05 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: DEC3000/300X memory?
In-Reply-To:  from "Ken Seefried" at Mar 14, 2002 03:16:14 AM
Message-ID: <200203140343.g2E3h6g28466@shell1.aracnet.com>

> Does anyone know a good, inexpensive source for the proprietary 32MB 
> DEC3000/300 memory SIMMS.  I'd like to give my 3000 (300X in a rackmount 
> kit) some longer legs. 
> 
> Ken 

Are they in fact proprietary?  I thought that it used the same as a
DEC3000/300LX.  With the 300LX, if I remember correctly, all you need is 
72-pin True Parity SIMMs.

		Zane


From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 21:48:23 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Grid 1520 LT Password
In-Reply-To: <3C8F8932.23031.1238D13C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8FC927.28746.1332AE29@localhost>

 Sorry, love of the goddess made me send this message before it was 
completed.
 I finally got my Grid 1520 , which was locked by password, functioning. I 
had to disassemble it down to where I could get at the underside of the 
motherboard and ground pins 12 and 21 on the DS1287A Dallis real time 
chip. There's likely a way of grounding it above board but I haven't been able 
to find it. Someone had mentioned earlier ( Mike Ford ?) that he had acquired 
a dozen or so of these indestructable 286 laptops but couldn't find a way of 
getting past the passwords. It's because the password is in the Dallis chip.

Lawrence      


>  I finally got my Grid 1520 , which was locked
> Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net
> 
> Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
> he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
> Robert Graves


Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net

Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad
he goes to his death and in death is made wise.
Robert Graves

From bill_r at inetnebr.com  Wed Mar 13 22:19:45 2002
From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: 1101 RAM Chips Needed
In-Reply-To: <15503.24537.534136.995383@phaduka.neurotica.com>
References:  <15503.24537.534136.995383@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:19:05 -0500, Dave McGuire
 wrote:
>
>  Hey!  Let's see some pics of that Mark-8!
>
>    -Dave

I thought you'd never ask!  

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/mark-8.html

It has no case or front panel yet; I'm debating whether I want to have
metal front and back panels and a plexiglas top and sides, or to put
it in an all-metal "BUD box" like the original.  

      -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com)
       Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
       Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with 
       Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

From dittman at dittman.net  Wed Mar 13 22:30:59 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: <3C8FC432.5333.131F502B@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 13, 2002 09:27:14 PM
Message-ID: <200203140430.g2E4Uxn31008@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> BUT... I have never personally worked with (nor own) the card that works 
> with the 630 and 6100. I have heard rumor that they in fact do not need a 
> dongle, but the problem you are describing, fits with what will happen on 
> a 610 if the dongle isn't present... so that makes me think that you DO 
> in fact need a dongle for the 630/6100 card.
> 
> Anyone have one of those cards they want to give me? (hopefully including 
> the dongle if it is needed). It would round out my DOS card collection 
> nicely.

The local used computer place has a PowerMac 6100/xx that has
the DOS card installed.  I think they want around $45 for it.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 22:50:07 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C8FD79F.9381.136B3676@localhost>

 Chris , I'm sorry, you're totally wrong. The 26 pin connector is for an 
Apple Audio Vision monitor. No F--king Dongle.

Lawrence 

> >The video dongle looks like a simple cable, but it must have some sort of
> >electronic switch in it as well.
> >It switches the monitor between the PCs video output and the Mac's video
> >output.
> >
> >As a workaround, however, I remember that you CAN plug in two monitors
> >simultaneously -- one that shows
> >what is going on on the PC and another, the Mac...
> 
> I don't think there is a switch in the cable, but rather I think it loops 
> some signals back to the PC card, which causes the switch over.
> 
> And yes, you can plug two monitors in, and run both at the same time... 
> BUT... you still need the dongle to do that... as the dongle is the only 
> way to get the video OFF the older DOS cards. If you want to run two 
> monitors, you just don't plug the loopback portion into the Mac's video.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 22:50:07 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313013136.03fef470@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FD79F.13927.136B378E@localhost>

 Sure, I have an extra 800XL and a bunch of 1050s but I use them to trade
or sell. If you're interested I'm also a struggling student looking for a free
Pentium laptop.

Lawrence

> I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive, etc... 
> anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good / 
> appreciate home?
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 22:50:07 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C8FD79F.6140.136B3712@localhost>

 No problems like that in Winnipegosis, but I always found that if you look
prosperous in a deprived area you were asking for trouble.

Lawrence

> IIT is around 33rd Street, near the White Sox ball park; MSI is at 57th
> street, 3 miles to the south and just east of the University of Chicago (8
> hundreds, e.g. 32nd Street to 40th Street, is a mile) The MSI is about 2
> miles _east_ of Michigan Ave. Best way to get there is by Lake Shore Drive. You
> can get to IIT from the Dan Ryan Expressway.
> 
> Neither area is that safe at night. During the day, the IIT campus itself is OK,
> but the area around it has a number of housing projects. The area north and west
> of the University of Chicago/MSI is a bit dicey, also.
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Interesting places in Chicago area?
> 
> 
> Russ Blakeman said:
> 
> > 
> > On the BW map you'll see where Ill Inst of tech is (known as IIT) - that's the
> > general area where MSI is at - it should be just east of IIT on 55th.
> Of
> > course there are other ways too, like going downtown when you dome into
> the
> > city on I-290 then going south on Michigan Ave (less of "the hood" to to
> go
> > thru, a lot longer trip)
> 
> Yeah...but don't go visit IIT.  seriously.  the museum is on the museum
> campus
> by the lake, which is pretty safe and nice, but you REALLY don't want to go much
> west of there, especially if you're not from the area...
> 
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 22:50:07 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Fun with a DWUBA
In-Reply-To: <20020313155753.65347.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3C8E1B4C.6010202@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FD79F.6456.136B3744@localhost>

 And here I thought it was a post about Bush Jr. George DWUBA.

> --- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> > Ethan, I'm glad to hear you are making headway in fixing your
> > fried board...
> 
> I was up to my elbows in the 8200 last night.  I think I've identified
> the target pin on the DD11DK that is the destination of the damaged pin
> in the first place - BB2 which is defined as a ground.  This is odd because on
> the paddle card, the signal is individually routed over pin 30 of JP2 and is not
> tied to anything else on either end.
> 
> Having inspected the cable carefully, multiple times, I'm still scratching
> my head as to how the damage could have happened in the first place.  I
> had notes written right on the Unibus cables where they stick onto the
> back of the VAXBI - the notations match the docs (I have the DWBUA technical
> manual with installation instructions).  I can't even see how putting the paddle
> card in backwards would have caused a massive problem.  I'm afraid to hook
> everything up and power it on again before I identify what was wrong.
> 
> OTOH, I did drop the T1010 card in the VAX and look for its presence on
> the bus.  With the cables disconnected, the card fails self-test (Duh!)
> but when I go to read the ident register of the DWBUA (E 20000000), I
> get back FFFFFFFF, not the expected value (as documented in the manual).
> Having written VMS VAXBI drivers in the past, I can say that this is not
> good.  The card "shows up" - the POST shows a "-0", so the VAXBIIC of
> the DWBUA is detected, but it's exceedingly unhappy.  I am suspecting
> that the card is more fried than one chip.  I'll keep working on it to
> see if the card needs a rudimentary amount of attachment to the UNIBUS
> to get far enough into its self-test to initialize the ident register,
> but I'm not hopeful about it - I think it should show the world what
> it is, even if it's unhappy.
> 
> Fortunately, I have docs for all of this.  At this time, I suspect the
> M9313 UET, the DD11DK, the cables and the T1010 card.  I just have to narrow
> down the list of suspects.  I suppose I could drop the card in with the chip at
> risk removed and a lead hanging out so I can monitor what's happening on that
> pin.  The pin itself happens to go to the outer-most pad on the VAXBI bus,
> looking at the board, it's the farthest pad from the VAXBIIC on the solder side.
>  It goes diagonally in more-or-less a straight line to a pin of a DEC DC021C, 4
> or 5, IIRC (it's not in front of me here).  Either that pin sources a whopping
> amount of current from the DC021 and it was shorted to ground by a bad cable or
> a problem in the BA11, or somehow a very wrong voltage came from the BA11 into
> that pin.  It's the only way I can see how a trace can get cooked and the chip
> melted at that pin.
> 
> Back to the basement...
> 
> -ethan
> 
> 
> =====
> Visit "The Seventh Continent"
> http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From lgwalker at mts.net  Wed Mar 13 22:50:07 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: OT: name that computer
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C8F8932.13924.1238D0E3@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8FD79F.1977.136B36DF@localhost>

 Edgar was mild compared to Roy Cohn. Can't point you to a site but there 
must be sources. And when it creeps into public policy creepy becomes a 
horror story for some.

Lawrence

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> >  Well if the deviant sexual behavior of a person in an authoritive position
> >  also 
> > includes S/M or something like pedophilia, It would be well to be very 
> > concerned. At the time, the threat of exposure of sexual deviance, would make
> > them vulnerable to blackmail as well.
> 
> Some of our leaders make sexual deviancy look bad.
> I don't have problems with somebody being a transvestite.  That's up to
> them.  But JEdgar was REALLY creepy.
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 13 22:58:31 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: 1101 RAM Chips Needed
References:  <15503.24537.534136.995383@phaduka.neurotica.com> 
Message-ID: <3C902DF7.67E51510@jetnet.ab.ca>

Bill Richman wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:19:05 -0500, Dave McGuire
>  wrote:
> >
> >  Hey!  Let's see some pics of that Mark-8!
> >
> >    -Dave
> 
> I thought you'd never ask!
> 
> http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/mark-8.html
> 
> It has no case or front panel yet; I'm debating whether I want to have
> metal front and back panels and a plexiglas top and sides, or to put
> it in an all-metal "BUD box" like the original.
> 
>       -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com)
>        Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
>        Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with
>        Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.

I vote for the BUD box. :)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From fernande at internet1.net  Wed Mar 13 23:23:39 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago 
 area?)
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9033DB.C6977DB5@internet1.net>

How do you get in and out?  Do they have a big hole cut in the side?

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

William Donzelli wrote:
> Is this even visible in the tour? On the US boats, the TDCs (Torpedo Data
> Computer) were installed in the conning tower, and I would expect the
> Germans to have done the same. Because of the very confined space, the
> towers of the boats are generally not included with tours (or very
> briefly included, as in "stick your head up thru the hatch").

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 13 23:27:05 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: impressive CI - SCSI storage rack from MTI (RAID?)
Message-ID: <3C9034A9.1000605@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi ho,

now I hauled it home, the modules of this very impressive MTI
StorageWare assembly. It's a marvellous piece of super redundant
24/7 operational gear for any VAX cluster. The fun starts with
a box that probably emulates an HSC90 or so, that one has two
power supplys, and there are two of those boxes each having the
4 redundant CI connectors. Each box has 3 SCSI (?) connectors
that run to another 4-box assembly and there is another layer
of redundancy. Then all this drives 4 arrays of 4GB SCSI disks
each having 8 such disks. I conclude that this must be a RAID
array, because I don't know how else one could address 8 disks
on a SCSI bus (isn't 7 devices appart from the controller the
maximum?) Initially it seemed straight-forward to use as a
simple CI/HSC to SCSI adapter, but now it looks like this stuff
is best kept as one big impressive unit. I'm going to try find
the manuals for this too. Does anyone have experience with
this kind of gear?

regards,
-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 13 23:29:51 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020314053121.RSPO14676.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

Here's a last-minute note to remind my fellow ZX81 enthusiasts that the 6th
annual ZX-TEAM meeting in Dietges, near Fulda, Germany, is to be held this
weekend. 

Admission is free.  Accommodations are available at the meeting place for
about US $50 per person *for the whole weekend,* including bed and meals
(really, really good meals, too) from Friday night through Sunday morning. 
Trust me, it's worth the trip just for the bockwurst and potato salad ;>)

(Sellam, why can't you get us a deal like this for VCF/VCF East???)

Contact Peter Liebert-Adelt at peter@zx81.de for reservations.  

For those who can't attend but want to check out the meeting, the ZX-TEAM
Webcam and chat should be online from 2100 - 2300 GMT this Friday and
Saturday if the phone line at the meeting place is up to the task.

To check out last year's meeting, go to:
http://home.t-online.de/home/p.liebert/meet_f_e.htm

Keep on ZXin'!

Glen
0/0

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 13 23:47:55 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago 
 area?)
References:  <3C9033DB.C6977DB5@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C90398B.FA15A5D8@jetnet.ab.ca>

Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> How do you get in and out?  Do they have a big hole cut in the side?
> 

Who said they let you OUT. :)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From nerdware at ctgonline.org  Thu Mar 14 00:11:57 2002
From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Museum of Science and Industry (was: Interesting places in Chicago  area?)
In-Reply-To: <3C9033DB.C6977DB5@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FEACD.23401.FFF1777D@localhost>

To answer two questions,

1) Last couple of times on was on her you couldn't go up into the 
conning tower. That was one of the roped-off areas. I haven't been 
on board in several years, though.

2) Yes, there is a sizeable hole in the side to allow ingress/egress. 
Pretty amazing thing to see sitting there... was really something to 
see it towed out of the lake and across Lake Shore Drive and into 
place next to the museum....while I was too young, I've seen the 
film footage.

3) A friend of mine who was an optical man in the Navy rebuilt the 
periscopes when it came to Chicago....turns out, they used 
American scopes....



> How do you get in and out?  Do they have a big hole cut in the side?
> 
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
> 
> William Donzelli wrote:
> > Is this even visible in the tour? On the US boats, the TDCs (Torpedo
> > Data Computer) were installed in the conning tower, and I would
> > expect the Germans to have done the same. Because of the very
> > confined space, the towers of the boats are generally not included
> > with tours (or very briefly included, as in "stick your head up thru
> > the hatch").






Paul Braun WD9GCO
Cygnus Productions
nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com

"A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head."

From mythtech at mac.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:18 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

> Chris , I'm sorry, you're totally wrong. The 26 pin connector is for an 
>Apple Audio Vision monitor. No F--king Dongle.

I said a number of times, I have NOT used the DOS card that works with 
the 630/6100... and that is the card in question.

But I CAN tell you that EVERY OTHER dos card Apple made, needs a video 
dongle... and they ALL connect via a DB-26 connector on the back of the 
DOS card... which is exactly what the person described on the back of 
their DOS card.

Now, it is quite possible that Apple put an AppleVision port on the 
630/6100 DOS card, why, I would have NO idea, since the 630 can't use an 
applevision monitor... but maybe they did.

HOWEVER, on the back of the 6100... is an HDI-45 video port... THAT is an 
AppleVision video port. That is NOT the same thing as the DB-26 on the 
DOS cards. Totally different port, totally different function.

BUT... I have heard that you do not need a video dongle with the 630/6100 
DOS card... I just can't confirm it one way or the other... and again, 
since they are describing EXACTLY what will happen to a Quadra 610 
Houdini DOS card if the dongle is not connected... I felt it was a good 
guess that they might in fact need one.

Now I am REALLY going to have to get 630/6100 DOS card... just so I can 
figure out once and for all if it needs a video dongle (or do you prefer 
the term... video loopback connector)

-chris




From mythtech at mac.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:56 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>The 26 pin connector is for an Apple AV monitor. Kind of like the 
>Commodore 1084S, only with Apples usual proprietory greed it has a 
>different connector. Cant remember the name but it is possibly HDI-26 or 
>maybe HDI-45.  Most of the AV Power Macs also had another card which 
>would take the Apple 15 pin monitor as well as having 4 S-Video ports.
>
> With the AudioVision monitor this would allow you to use 2 monitors at the 
>same time, as well as sound systems perhaps. No I've never tried it.

You are describing a different thing that I was talking about. 

I was referencing the DB 26 on the back of the DOS card. You are talking 
about the video connectors on the Mac itself.

-chris




From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 01:09:58 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
References: <00f701c1cab4$250d30b0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1cb27$407d4880$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>



> Why can't I ever find friends like that? :)
>
> Congratulations in advance!
>
> Erik S. Klein
>
>
I have a friend with an Altair that he built as a teen in his parents' basement in Connecticut.  I want it, but only about $500
worth.  Of course I'll tell him that they go for $2K on eBay, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that and still end up
with the computer.  Fortunately money isn't an issue for him.  Any ideas?

-W


From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 01:15:01 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
Message-ID: <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
> website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
> times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
> software.
>
> http://www.pmail.com
>
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival

There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse AOL
Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.

Am I missing something, but aren't OE and Netscape freeware too?

-W


From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 01:47:05 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:22 2005
Subject: Interesting places in Chicago area?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

See how long it's been for me? Anyway I used to go to IIT, also used to get
off the bus in front of Cabrini-Green - never a problem. I last worked off
Canal near Sears Tower and got off at 1am and other than a pot smoking
stoned CTA driver I never had problems.

I do still remember when they dug out the Dan Ryan near my grandparent's
place where the Ryan, I-57 and the Calumet all meet/split and when ML King
Drive was called South Park.

I sure miss the old ballpark too and the old Greek neighborhood around it.
The new one looks like a salad bowl made of concrete that you should set out
for birds to bathe in.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Feldman, Robert
=> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:27 AM
=> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'
=> Subject: RE: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=>
=>
=> IIT is around 33rd Street, near the White Sox ball park; MSI is at 57th
=> street, 3 miles to the south and just east of the University of
=> Chicago (8
=> hundreds, e.g. 32nd Street to 40th Street, is a mile) The MSI is about 2
=> miles _east_ of Michigan Ave. Best way to get there is by Lake
=> Shore Drive.
=> You can get to IIT from the Dan Ryan Expressway.
=>
=> Neither area is that safe at night. During the day, the IIT
=> campus itself is
=> OK, but the area around it has a number of housing projects. The
=> area north
=> and west of the University of Chicago/MSI is a bit dicey, also.
=>
=> Bob
=>
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu]
=> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:48 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Interesting places in Chicago area?
=>
=>
=> Russ Blakeman said:
=> 
=> >
=> > On the BW map you'll see where Ill Inst of tech is (known as
=> IIT) - that's
=> > the general area where MSI is at - it should be just east of
=> IIT on 55th.
=> Of
=> > course there are other ways too, like going downtown when you dome into
=> the
=> > city on I-290 then going south on Michigan Ave (less of "the
=> hood" to to
=> go
=> > thru, a lot longer trip)
=>
=> Yeah...but don't go visit IIT.  seriously.  the museum is on the museum
=> campus
=> by the lake, which is pretty safe and nice, but you REALLY don't
=> want to go
=> much west of there, especially if you're not from the area...
=>
=> 
=>


From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 01:57:19 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Uh OE and Netscape are freebies too - you get OE with the OS and Nutscrape
just by downloading it. You can make either of them do text as well.

I really can't believe that anyone that  uses the net these days on an older
machine cares - most anything is HTML, Java, Perl, etc and then Flash must
totally blast the old machines. I use a fairly modern machine for internet
work, only tinker with the old ones on the net. The days of the ASCII/ANSI
BBS's has pretty well passed except for the diehards that keep theirs up for
local hangouts.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail
=> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:52 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: OT: HTML in EMAIL
=>
=>
=> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, D Peksa wrote:
=>
=> > Sorry about the HTML - I have now discovered a difference between
=> > Pegasus mail V3 and Pegasus mail v4 - V3 worked properly, V4 puts
=> > ****ing HTML everywhere ****ing where.
=>
=> No it doesn't, so don't blame Pegasus.  I use Pegasus V4 as
=> well, upgraded
=> from V3.  You had to have turned on HTML in e-mail for it to do
=> that...don't try to scapegoat Pegasus.
=>
=> Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
=> website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
=> times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
=> software.
=>
=> http://www.pmail.com
=>
=> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage
=> Computer Festival
=> -----------------------------------------------------------------
=> -------------
=> International Man of Intrigue and Danger
=> http://www.vintage.org
=>
=>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *


From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 01:57:21 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <007101c1ca93$59f02c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: 

Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off ebay for lousy
sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs the
username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same trend in sales.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain
=> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:31 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> > I noticed he was gone from ebay since a
=> > couple of months ago. What happened?
=>
=> He moved to a new location and changed ID's.
=> I'm negotiating for a refund (slooowww) after which
=> time I'll give out the new ID publicly.
=>
=> John A.
=>


From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 14 02:06:14 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020314053121.RSPO14676.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote:

> Admission is free.  Accommodations are available at the meeting place for
> about US $50 per person *for the whole weekend,* including bed and meals
> (really, really good meals, too) from Friday night through Sunday morning.
> Trust me, it's worth the trip just for the bockwurst and potato salad ;>)
>
> (Sellam, why can't you get us a deal like this for VCF/VCF East???)

Because we're in America.  If you want accomodations like this then I
imagine you're willing to either pay $200 or else be put up in a place
called something like the Sunset Lodge where they also have hourly rates.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 14 02:09:14 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:

> > Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
> > website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
> > times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
> > software.
> >
> > http://www.pmail.com
> >
> > Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
>
> There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse AOL
> Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.
>
> Am I missing something, but aren't OE and Netscape freeware too?

Free as in "free from crashing your computer" and "free from allowing
e-mail viruses to destroy your files" and "free from Bill Gates'
stranglehold on all that is impure and horrid".

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 14 02:18:50 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To:  from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 14, 2002 01:57:21 AM
Message-ID: <200203140818.g2E8IoH31740@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off ebay for lousy
> sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs the
> username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same trend in sales.

What username did he use before?
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:10 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:29:51 EST."
             <20020314053121.RSPO14676.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203140932.JAA15388@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:

> Here's a last-minute note to remind my fellow ZX81 enthusiasts that the 6th
> annual ZX-TEAM meeting in Dietges, near Fulda, Germany, is to be held this
> weekend. 
> 

Just curious, but what do you guys *do* with ZX81s?  I've got one rebuilt in
a large box with loads of i/o ports and a2d converter running multi-tasking 
Forth, but I've not plugged it in for a while...

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From geoffr at zipcon.net  Thu Mar 14 03:35:50 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Commodore tape drive
In-Reply-To: <200203131346.FAA29868@stockholm.ptloma.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313012747.03ff3d40@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314013524.04cc8d00@mail.zipcon.net>

Claimed, I will be emailing the first person who spoke up for it....


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Thu Mar 14 03:39:12 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020313112013.008f8ba0@ubanproductions.com>
References: <001001c1caae$aec6f800$30db3fd0@DOMAIN>
 <3C8F7B52.3030607@cnonline.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314013839.04cd0ae0@mail.zipcon.net>

Is that an Altair 680?  it doesn't loke like the Altair 8080 I remember building


From tractorb at ihug.co.nz  Thu Mar 14 03:51:08 2002
From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: HPIB ISA cards
References: <20020314011037.21105.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>
Message-ID: <024601c1cb3d$c4e65ec0$0100a8c0@p150>

James
If there's any left I'll have one if you can tolerate the hassle of
international mail etc-  all costs to me of course
If not- well
 C'et la vie!!
 Cheers
 Dave Brown
Christchurch
NZ
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:10 PM
Subject: HPIB ISA cards


>    Who was looking for HP-IB cards? I found three genuine HP 82335 cards
> (8-bit ISA) this morning. Condition unknown but they're almost mint out
> of the box visually. Available to whoever wants them for postage ($3.50
> each in the US).
>
>    --James B.
>


From timwa at snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 05:14:09 2002
From: timwa at snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk (Tim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Heads up...  free MVII/PDP-11 on eBay UK
Message-ID: 

Hi all,


At times like this, I wish I had a car.  Of course, if I did I'd
need to learn to drive it, so it's a bit of a moot point...  Given
that, the following is no use to me but someone else in the
UK may like to know about the following auction...

  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338982069


Apparently, this chap has a free PDP11 & MicroVax-II going to
a good home...

Cheers,
Tim.

-- 
Tim Walls at home in Croydon     -     Reply to tim@snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk


From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 06:41:09 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <200203140818.g2E8IoH31740@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 

He had 4 others and truthfully I don't remember anymore. If I happen to dig
out old ebay paperwork that has it I'll post it.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
=> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:19 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> > Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off
=> ebay for lousy
=> > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs the
=> > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
=> trend in sales.
=>
=> What username did he use before?
=> --
=> Eric Dittman
=> dittman@dittman.net
=> Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
=>


From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Thu Mar 14 07:05:41 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
 <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A025.DF128A57@Vishay.com>


"Wayne M. Smith" wrote:
...
> There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse AOL
> Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.

I became a happy Netscape user long before it had anything to do with
AOL (don't remember if it was V2.x or V3.x), and before I switch to M$,
they must either brainwash or force me, or they must learn how to write
programs (not just GUIs!).

What adjustment is it that you are looking for in Netscape? - Maybe I
can give you a hint? Selecting either HTML or plain text as the mail
format is really easy, and if you try to forward HTML-formatted mail to
recipients who prefer text-only, you can even _opt_ to be asked before
sending. Is that "unconfigurable"? ;-)

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From fernande at internet1.net  Thu Mar 14 07:45:17 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: 
Message-ID: <3C90A96D.6DE566CF@internet1.net>

Please do, as I've had lucite-bakelite come up in searches.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Russ Blakeman wrote:
> 
> He had 4 others and truthfully I don't remember anymore. If I happen to dig
> out old ebay paperwork that has it I'll post it.
> 
> => -----Original Message-----
> => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
> => Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:19 AM
> => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
> =>
> =>
> => > Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off
> => ebay for lousy
> => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs the
> => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
> => trend in sales.
> =>
> => What username did he use before?
> => --
> => Eric Dittman
> => dittman@dittman.net
> => Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
> =>

From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Thu Mar 14 07:45:23 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: impressive CI - SCSI storage rack from MTI (RAID?)
References: <3C9034A9.1000605@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C90A973.403B0FA7@adelphia.net>

Sounds like an MTI Stingray subsystem... what specifically would you like to
know? I had a few in operation years ago on a cluster of 6230's.





Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Hi ho,
>
> now I hauled it home, the modules of this very impressive MTI
> StorageWare assembly. It's a marvellous piece of super redundant
> 24/7 operational gear for any VAX cluster. The fun starts with
> a box that probably emulates an HSC90 or so, that one has two
> power supplys, and there are two of those boxes each having the
> 4 redundant CI connectors. Each box has 3 SCSI (?) connectors
> that run to another 4-box assembly and there is another layer
> of redundancy. Then all this drives 4 arrays of 4GB SCSI disks
> each having 8 such disks. I conclude that this must be a RAID
> array, because I don't know how else one could address 8 disks
> on a SCSI bus (isn't 7 devices appart from the controller the
> maximum?) Initially it seemed straight-forward to use as a
> simple CI/HSC to SCSI adapter, but now it looks like this stuff
> is best kept as one big impressive unit. I'm going to try find
> the manuals for this too. Does anyone have experience with
> this kind of gear?
>
> regards,
> -Gunther
>
> --
> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
> Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
> Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
> tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From at258 at osfn.org  Thu Mar 14 08:04:41 2002
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Orange donation
In-Reply-To: <200203140430.g2E4Uxn31008@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 


Yesterday we visited Computer Solutions in Orange, NJ and were given a 
lovely HP3000 Series 70.  It's a large, but very lovely beastie and so 
far, at least, remarkably tractable.  Also in the load were boxes of 
paper tape, tape reader , full 3000 docs and an HP2108.  They also gave 
us an Apollo 400 system, server and 6 workstations.  Very nice people, 
and aa lovely donation.





From jrkeys at concentric.net  Thu Mar 14 09:05:13 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.- Laptops
References: <3C8FD79F.13927.136B378E@localhost>
Message-ID: <006501c1cb69$a5969b80$5b8d70d8@default>

Start checking your thrift shops (the private ones) I got COMPAQ 233Mhz
laptop for $14.99 at one here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Walker" 
To: "Geoff Reed" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Atari stuff wanted.


> Sure, I have an extra 800XL and a bunch of 1050s but I use them to
trade
> or sell. If you're interested I'm also a struggling student looking
for a free
> Pentium laptop.
>
> Lawrence
>
> > I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive,
etc...
> > anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good /
> > appreciate home?
> >
>
>
> lgwalker@mts.net
> bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com
>


From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 14 09:11:35 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References:  <3C90A96D.6DE566CF@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <000701c1cb6a$88f1bb80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs
the
> => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same

> => What username did he use before?

Just to clarify,  "lucite-bakelite" is NOT the ID that I found for "elobby".

John A.




From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 14 09:20:03 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <200203141925.OAA15259@wordstock.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Bryan Pope wrote:

> There is no reason to switch from pine, but there is a very good reason
> to switch from telnet to ssh. With telnet your entire session and
> password is sent as clear text. Using at least version 1 of ssh is a
> *very* good thing. And using scp instead of ftp is also a very good
> thing, for the same reason.

I am now a devout user of ssh and scp after my run-in with the script
kiddies.

F 1337 d00dz!!!

For excellent ssh and scp products, check out:

http://www.vandyke.com

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 09:43:03 2002
From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Heads up...  free MVII/PDP-11 on eBay UK
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001c1cb6e$edbcd0a0$4d4d2c0a@atx>

> At times like this, I wish I had a car.  Of course, if I did I'd
> need to learn to drive it, so it's a bit of a moot point...  Given
> that, the following is no use to me but someone else in the
> UK may like to know about the following auction...
>
>   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338982069
>
>
> Apparently, this chap has a free PDP11 & MicroVax-II going to
> a good home...
>
The PDP-11/73 will be taking a car journey here next week ... I think - but
am not sure - that the Vax is also spoken for.

Andy


From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Mar 14 09:50:55 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: DEC3000/300X memory?
In-Reply-To: <200203140343.g2E3h6g28466@shell1.aracnet.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314105055.013320b0@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words:
>> Does anyone know a good, inexpensive source for the proprietary 32MB 
>> DEC3000/300 memory SIMMS.  I'd like to give my 3000 (300X in a rackmount 
>> kit) some longer legs. 
>> 
>> Ken 
>
>Are they in fact proprietary?  I thought that it used the same as a
>DEC3000/300LX.  With the 300LX, if I remember correctly, all you need is 
>72-pin True Parity SIMMs.

AFAIK, it's standard parity memory as well... what's better - 70ns or 60ns,
or does it matter?

Anyway, the absocheapest place I found (I was looking to upgrade my wife's
DEC 3000/300 until I stumbled across a Compaq P2-350Mhz server - working -
for $50.

[I still have the machine - I'm thinking of turning that into my "VMS
document server" as I don't have any dead tree-based documentation and I
can't get DECWindows [or much anyting else running on my ratzenframbling
8-plane grafix board... :-( ] on my MicroVAX 3100/m38...]

I did a *lot* of searching and I finally came across:

http://www.coastmemory.com/

they have 60 & 70ns memory 32Meg sticks for USD $15.49 each ... beats the
heck out of the $60-$70 I was finding at most other memory websites...

HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From marvin at rain.org  Thu Mar 14 10:04:43 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Just Ask Re: Wow!  Maybe my next old system
References: <00f701c1cab4$250d30b0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com> <003c01c1cb27$407d4880$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C90CA1B.CBA428E2@rain.org>



"Wayne M. Smith" wrote:
> 
> I have a friend with an Altair that he built as a teen in his parents' basement in Connecticut.  I want it, but only about $500
> worth.  Of course I'll tell him that they go for $2K on eBay, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that and still end up
> with the computer.  Fortunately money isn't an issue for him.  Any ideas?

Ask :). My IBM 5100 (Basic only) was given to me because I asked.
Shortly after that, I found out what they were going for (about $500)
and told her she could have it back if she wanted. She told me to keep
it! She asked about a year later if I had sold it and I told her no, and
I still have it along with the external tape drive and printer.

From AlistairMacDonald at economist.com  Thu Mar 14 10:10:33 2002
From: AlistairMacDonald at economist.com (Alistair MacDonald)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Heads up...  free MVII/PDP-11 on eBay UK
Message-ID: 

=== andyh@andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk 14/03/2002 15:43:03 ===
>>   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1338982069 
>> Apparently, this chap has a free PDP11 & MicroVax-II going to
>> a good home...
>>
>The PDP-11/73 will be taking a car journey here next week ... I think - but
>am not sure - that the Vax is also spoken for.

It is 8-)

Alistair (who wonders if he needs to buy a bigger car ... )


From marvin at rain.org  Thu Mar 14 10:11:09 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
References:  <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C90CB9D.9D208356@rain.org>


"Wayne M. Smith" wrote:
> 
> There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse AOL
> Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.

I've been using Netscape mail for years with no problems! The only
downside is that for some unknown reason, the database format they use
doesn't reclaim the space when messages are moved out of a folder. After
a while, I have a 50 Mb Inbox with nothing in it. The solution is to
delete it and the index file, preferably when empty :), and the system
will put it back. Same thing with other folders except you need to
recreate the deleted file manually.

I don't care for HTML in messages, and set it to use plain text. I don't
know the default character set but mine is set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu  Thu Mar 14 10:16:16 2002
From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <58424495@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

Aha! The plot thickens. Reply from the previous owner:

------------
> This [cable] seems to be missing! Do
> you think perhaps it is hiding somewhere in your garage? 
> 
I think I must have it somewhere--I can picture what you're talking about.  Will look when I get back from my trip.
------------

Sounds like this may be the answer to my problems.  :)  If/when she finds it and I install it, I'll send a re: to the list. 

Thanks again, everyone! 

-- MB

From djenner at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 10:35:12 2002
From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
References:  <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <3C90CB9D.9D208356@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3C90D140.B116B37C@earthlink.net>

Do a "File>>Compact Folders".

My Inbox is mucho years old and it is currently 37 KILObytes in size.

Dave

Marvin Johnston wrote:
> 
> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote:
> >
> > There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse AOL
> > Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.
> 
> I've been using Netscape mail for years with no problems! The only
> downside is that for some unknown reason, the database format they use
> doesn't reclaim the space when messages are moved out of a folder. After
> a while, I have a 50 Mb Inbox with nothing in it. The solution is to
> delete it and the index file, preferably when empty :), and the system
> will put it back. Same thing with other folders except you need to
> recreate the deleted file manually.
> 
> I don't care for HTML in messages, and set it to use plain text. I don't
> know the default character set but mine is set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

-- 
David C. Jenner
djenner@earthlink.net

From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 10:49:14 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <000701c1cb6a$88f1bb80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: 

I know that, I was just adding to that with info on a previous ebay dufus
that I've had problems with.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain
=> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:12 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> > => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs
=> the
=> > => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
=>
=> > => What username did he use before?
=>
=> Just to clarify,  "lucite-bakelite" is NOT the ID that I found
=> for "elobby".
=>
=> John A.
=>
=>
=>
=>
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002


From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 10:49:17 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C90A96D.6DE566CF@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

It was something like buy-computers-for-less (I know that's not fully
correct) and a couple other names he came up with. If you ask a question and
get a repsonse from a guy with a business name and send it off list to me I
can tell you if it's the same guy or not. I found his auctions by searching
for RS/6000 cables (I have some to sell and was looking at what was out
there) and the listing was exaclty like the old ones I found for his
previous usernames.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:45 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> Please do, as I've had lucite-bakelite come up in searches.
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Russ Blakeman wrote:
=> >
=> > He had 4 others and truthfully I don't remember anymore. If I
=> happen to dig
=> > out old ebay paperwork that has it I'll post it.
=> >
=> > => -----Original Message-----
=> > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
=> > => Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:19 AM
=> > => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> > => Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> > => > Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off
=> > => ebay for lousy
=> > => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it
=> appears he runs the
=> > => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
=> > => trend in sales.
=> > =>
=> > => What username did he use before?
=> > => --
=> > => Eric Dittman
=> > => dittman@dittman.net
=> > => Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
=> > =>
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002


From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 14 12:00:42 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
References: <3C85A751.4060803@aurora.regenstrief.org><3C85B701.9F0DBD59@jetnet.ab.ca> <01b201c1c52d$3d941680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><3C86681B.C8CDFD4C@Vishay.com> <004601c1c575$60057360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3C8D08DE.CDBE8D81@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <02a801c1cb82$28cb8ca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Big thanks to Andreas for the plans to this, looks
like there's 100% of the information needed to 
proceed.

A question common to this and other things I've 
done in the past (I'm not an EE)....
Let's see...  Boards are 0.10" and ribbon cables
are 0.05".  This is solved somewhat with IDC 
connectors using a dual row of pins.
The problem: Looks like I have to jumper every 
other pin to a board trace to get ribbon down 
from two rows to one.  Anybody have 0.1 to 0.05
fan-outs on PCBoard-lettes so I don't have to do
this manually?  All I need is 2-row to 1-row 0.10".
What?  Me lazy?

John A.



From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 14 12:02:06 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
Message-ID: <000601c1cb82$5bb414c0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

lessee, 

I use OutlookExpress at times, with the right settings it's pretty solid 
and can be made virus proof!  Hint, disable VBSscripting!  Why anyone 
would link a programming language to email is beyond me.  Disabling
COMx and ActiveX controls is easy enough.  There is no excuse for 
HTML unless someone set a system profile removing those controls 
from reach, in that case us you own system not the companies.  
Propagating bugs like Loveletter is an example of user ignorance.

I also like RFDmail, an old shareware Win3.1 program that runs fine 
under Win/nt4.  It's even better as it's HTML dumb, virus proof and 
generally knows little of mime types that are not clear text.

Nyetscrap communicator is fairly nice and complete.  Plenty setable.
My prefered version is communicator4.75, browser 4.08.  Both 
downloadable free last I looked.

Then there are the longer list of freeware mailers.  Theres no excuse for
living with crud.  There is also no excuse for not knowing how to "drive"
what you have.

Allison



From cisin at xenosoft.com  Thu Mar 14 12:57:49 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <000601c1cb82$5bb414c0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
> lessee, 
> I use OutlookExpress at times, with the right settings it's pretty solid 
> and can be made virus proof!  Hint, disable VBSscripting!  Why anyone 
> would link a programming language to email is beyond me.  Disabling
> COMx and ActiveX controls is easy enough.  There is no excuse for 
> HTML unless someone set a system profile removing those controls 
> from reach, in that case us you own system not the companies.  
> Propagating bugs like Loveletter is an example of user ignorance.

User education could be improved.
I talked to somebody who thought that she would be safe because she always
checked everything in the "preview pane" to see if it would be OK
(thinking that it was like a peephole in a front door?)

"Social engineering" is still a primary problem.  Twice I have received
e-mail that purported to be from Microsoft with a 170K attachment
(Q216309.EXE).  It said to run that to patch security holes.  yeah,
right.  MICROS~1 does NOT mail unsolicited security patches.


Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
session? 

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From bpope at wordstock.com  Thu Mar 14 13:06:22 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
Message-ID: <200203141906.OAA13830@wordstock.com>

Jus' a little news blurb:

Mar 14, 2002 8:30 AM PT
Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson on Thursday announced partnerships
with two companies making games for mobile phones in its drive to
challenge handset market leader Nokia through mobile entertainment.

The newly formed handset maker, Sony Ericsson, said partnerships with
iFone and Synergenix would enable consumers to download some games for
free from the Sony Ericsson Web site, or access others for a fee from
an operator's Web site. IFone will be providing games from its Atari
catalogue, including classics such as Asteroids and Pong. --Reuters

This is from: http://zdnet.com.com/2110-1105-859957.html

Cheers,

Bryan

P.S. Happy PI day!!!


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 13:19:41 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020314191941.79942.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)"  wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
> > Hint, disable VBSscripting!  Why anyone  would link a programming 
> > language to email is beyond me.

I agree, but someone somewhere decided that the ignorant masses needed
it.  Perhaps it was conceived as an ideal spam vector and sold to
management as a revenue-enhancing feature.

> Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
> session? 

Nope.  I used to use elm over a telnet session, but I had switch to
a web-based client when I was in Russia for an extended period of
time and I could _not_ establish a reliable telnet connection to
home.  With Yahoo!, I've read mail from all over the world.  It beats
a telnet session over comms satellite (1600ms packet RTT!)

The short of it is, if you are in North America on a land line, there's
no reason not to use telnet/PINE if you aren't anticipating digesting
voluminous quantities of attachments.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From bpope at wordstock.com  Thu Mar 14 13:25:26 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To:  from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 14, 02 10:57:49 am
Message-ID: <200203141925.OAA15259@wordstock.com>

And thusly Fred Cisin spake:
> 
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
> > lessee, 
> > I use OutlookExpress at times, with the right settings it's pretty solid 
> > and can be made virus proof!  Hint, disable VBSscripting!  Why anyone 
> > would link a programming language to email is beyond me.  Disabling
> > COMx and ActiveX controls is easy enough.  There is no excuse for 
> > HTML unless someone set a system profile removing those controls 
> > from reach, in that case us you own system not the companies.  
> > Propagating bugs like Loveletter is an example of user ignorance.
> 
> User education could be improved.
> I talked to somebody who thought that she would be safe because she always
> checked everything in the "preview pane" to see if it would be OK
> (thinking that it was like a peephole in a front door?)
> 
> "Social engineering" is still a primary problem.  Twice I have received
> e-mail that purported to be from Microsoft with a 170K attachment
> (Q216309.EXE).  It said to run that to patch security holes.  yeah,
> right.  MICROS~1 does NOT mail unsolicited security patches.
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
> session? 
> 

There is no reason to switch from pine, but there is a very good reason to 
switch from telnet to ssh.  With telnet your entire session and password is 
sent as clear text.  Using at least version 1 of ssh is a *very* good thing.  
And using scp instead of ftp is also a very good thing, for the same reason.

Cheers,

Bryan


From csmith at amdocs.com  Thu Mar 14 13:26:24 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B15@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com]

> Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
> session? 

Only if you like Elm better. :)

Of course, there's the problem that more and more people can't telnet
into their mail host.  At which point, you could still use pine -- or
pc pine if you insist on using windows -- and just make it use pop. 

Chris

Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 13:37:35 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
Message-ID: <20020314193736.39356.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>


Since I have the hood open on my 8200, I thought I'd diagnose the
troubles I've been having with getting a DEBNT working in there.
The 8200 I have came with a KDB50, 4MB RAM and one CPU.  Nothing
else (and was $13,000 when my former employer bought it - I just
re-found the receipt).  The only serial ports are the four console
ports.  No DMB32 or anything like that (not that I would mind locating
one of _those_ either).  

Since it first arrived, I put in more RAM, COMBOARDs (that we made)
and a DWBUA (which I'm diagnosing for its own problems).  I am now
attempting to use a DEBNT I received some time back.  Here's what
it looks like inside...

T1001  KA820    - 8200 CPU
T1010  DWBUA    - Unibus adapter
T1001  KA820    - 8200 CPU (not installed at present)
T1002  KDB50    - KDB50 SDI adapter
T1003  KDB50    - KDB50 Processor board
T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
T1008  MS820-AA - 2MB RAM for VAXBI processor
T1008  MS820-AA - 2MB RAM for VAXBI processor
1294   CBSBI    - COMBOARD-BI (sync comms front end processor)
T1032  DEBNT    - Ethernet and TK50 controller

(I used http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/VAXBI.html for reference)

As you can see, it's a full boat - 16MB of RAM in 5 cards.  I'd love to
run across an inexpensive MS820-CA or two.  I wouldn't mind pulling the
MS820-AAs out, but 16MB is an OK amount of memory for a single user.  I'm
also on a long-term quest for free or nearly free KA825 boards - I'd be
nice to bring this up to an 8350.

The disks are 3rd-party ESDI (1.2Gb each) drives on a 3rd-party ESDI-
to-SDI controller.  Very nice.  Beats an RA81 hands down.  At the moment,
I'm running VMS 5.4 and plan to continue for some time (due to
compatibility needs for the COMBOARD stuff I used to write).  I do have
a pair of RA70s I was thinking of putting on it as well.

So... the DEBNT itself fails self-test if there is nothing attached
to the AUI connector.  If I attach a DEC loopback connector to the
AUI plug, ISTR I get the yellow LED telling me it passed.  If I put
a 10BaseT transceiver on there, the TX light stays lit with no networking
drivers/software loaded.

First and foremost, I'm attempting to verify I put the cables on the
right places.  I have 30-pin connector off one end of the AUI cable.
I have a 30-pin connector with one wire attached that seems to be a
jumper block of some kind.  At the moment, they are attached to the
BI backplane at block "E", I think because that's what seemed to be
right from looking at where the Lance chip is on the DEBNT.  If anyone
has installation instructions, particularly cabling instructions, 
those would be very helpful.

Once I get the hardware happy, I'll need to move to software.  Since
I want to stay at VMS 5.4, what are my TCP/IP options as a hobbyist?
The only other VAX I have set up with Ethernet is also running 5.4 -
a uVAX-II with a DEQNA.  I do have VMS 6.1, but I'm not using it
at the moment.

Thanks for any DEBNT and VAXBI tips and hints.  I have some docs, but not
everything.  Mostly, I'm drawing on general VAX experience combined with
observation and experimentation.  I know my way around the VAXBI bus, but
not around some of the peripherals.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Thu Mar 14 13:46:08 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B15@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from Christopher Smith at "Mar 14, 2 01:26:24 pm"
Message-ID: <200203141946.LAA20870@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> > Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
> > session? 
> 
> Only if you like Elm better. :)

I love Elm. Hearts and warm fuzzies inserted here.

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- FORTUNE: You learn from your mistakes. Today will be very educational. -----

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 13:59:57 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
In-Reply-To: <02a801c1cb82$28cb8ca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 14, 2 01:00:42 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1106 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020314/93d6a4a9/attachment.ksh
From philip at awale.qc.ca  Thu Mar 14 15:07:03 2002
From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
In-Reply-To: <200203141906.OAA13830@wordstock.com>
Message-ID: 


On 14-Mar-2002 Bryan Pope wrote:
> Jus' a little news blurb:
> 
> Mar 14, 2002 8:30 AM PT
> Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
> Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson on Thursday announced partnerships
> with two companies making games for mobile phones in its drive to
> challenge handset market leader Nokia through mobile entertainment.
> 
> The newly formed handset maker, Sony Ericsson, said partnerships with
> iFone and Synergenix would enable consumers to download some games for
> free from the Sony Ericsson Web site, or access others for a fee from
> an operator's Web site. IFone will be providing games from its Atari
> catalogue, including classics such as Asteroids and Pong. --Reuters
> 
> This is from: http://zdnet.com.com/2110-1105-859957.html
zdnet.com.com is not infact ZDnet, but a very clever site pretending to be
ZDnet.  The purpose of the site is seems to be to propagate memes the
authors agree with.

Click on Page One, you go to http://zdnet.com.com/2001-11-0.html
(http://zdnet.net.net redirects to http://www.zdnet.com/) which has
"Open-source flaw threatens MS code" and other items that wouldn't normaly
show up on an corporate-ass-licking site like ZDnet.

-Philip

From lgwalker at mts.net  Thu Mar 14 15:41:54 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Atari stuff wanted.- Laptops
In-Reply-To: <006501c1cb69$a5969b80$5b8d70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3C90C4C2.5561.1709AC9C@localhost>

 That was a rather flippant joke. I'm actually an old f--t in the boonies and the 
likelyhood of even finding one up here in THE thrift store, much less at that 
price is nil. The local one was selling a 386 desktop sans monitor for $50.

Lawrence

> Start checking your thrift shops (the private ones) I got COMPAQ 233Mhz
> laptop for $14.99 at one here.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Walker" 
> To: "Geoff Reed" ; 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Atari stuff wanted.
> 
> 
> > Sure, I have an extra 800XL and a bunch of 1050s but I use them to
> trade
> > or sell. If you're interested I'm also a struggling student looking
> for a free
> > Pentium laptop.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> > > I'm looking for atari stuff, 800 xl or better, 1050 disk drive,
> etc...
> > > anyone have any they'd be interested in parting with for a good /
> > > appreciate home?
> > >
> >
> >
> > lgwalker@mts.net
> > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com
> >
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From lgwalker at mts.net  Thu Mar 14 15:41:54 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C90C4C2.6524.1709AC60@localhost>

 Oops my mistake I didn't notice he said the connector was on the Dos card.
The description of the 3row 26 pin connector does resemble an HDI-45 tho. 

Lawrence

> > Chris , I'm sorry, you're totally wrong. The 26 pin connector is for an 
> >Apple Audio Vision monitor. No F--king Dongle.
> 
> I said a number of times, I have NOT used the DOS card that works with 
> the 630/6100... and that is the card in question.
> 
> But I CAN tell you that EVERY OTHER dos card Apple made, needs a video 
> dongle... and they ALL connect via a DB-26 connector on the back of the 
> DOS card... which is exactly what the person described on the back of 
> their DOS card.
> 
> Now, it is quite possible that Apple put an AppleVision port on the 
> 630/6100 DOS card, why, I would have NO idea, since the 630 can't use an 
> applevision monitor... but maybe they did.
> 
> HOWEVER, on the back of the 6100... is an HDI-45 video port... THAT is an 
> AppleVision video port. That is NOT the same thing as the DB-26 on the 
> DOS cards. Totally different port, totally different function.
> 
> BUT... I have heard that you do not need a video dongle with the 630/6100 
> DOS card... I just can't confirm it one way or the other... and again, 
> since they are describing EXACTLY what will happen to a Quadra 610 
> Houdini DOS card if the dongle is not connected... I felt it was a good 
> guess that they might in fact need one.
> 
> Now I am REALLY going to have to get 630/6100 DOS card... just so I can 
> figure out once and for all if it needs a video dongle (or do you prefer 
> the term... video loopback connector)
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From menadeau at attbi.com  Thu Mar 14 15:47:38 2002
From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
References: 
Message-ID: <01cc01c1cba1$dcc73320$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>

> > This is from: http://zdnet.com.com/2110-1105-859957.html
> zdnet.com.com is not infact ZDnet, but a very clever site pretending to be
> ZDnet.  The purpose of the site is seems to be to propagate memes the
> authors agree with.
>
> Click on Page One, you go to http://zdnet.com.com/2001-11-0.html
> (http://zdnet.net.net redirects to http://www.zdnet.com/) which has
> "Open-source flaw threatens MS code" and other items that wouldn't normaly
> show up on an corporate-ass-licking site like ZDnet.
>
> -Philip

What makes you say that? Sure looks like the real thing to me. You can get
to the Atari story from the genuine ZDNet site.

--Mike



Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones


>
> On 14-Mar-2002 Bryan Pope wrote:
> > Jus' a little news blurb:
> >
> > Mar 14, 2002 8:30 AM PT
> > Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
> > Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson on Thursday announced partnerships
> > with two companies making games for mobile phones in its drive to
> > challenge handset market leader Nokia through mobile entertainment.
> >
> > The newly formed handset maker, Sony Ericsson, said partnerships with
> > iFone and Synergenix would enable consumers to download some games for
> > free from the Sony Ericsson Web site, or access others for a fee from
> > an operator's Web site. IFone will be providing games from its Atari
> > catalogue, including classics such as Asteroids and Pong. --Reuters
> >



From mrbill at mrbill.net  Thu Mar 14 16:05:35 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
In-Reply-To: 
References: <200203141906.OAA13830@wordstock.com> 
Message-ID: <20020314220535.GV9626@mrbill.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 04:07:03PM -0500, philip@awale.qc.ca wrote:
> > This is from: http://zdnet.com.com/2110-1105-859957.html
> zdnet.com.com is not infact ZDnet, but a very clever site pretending to be
> ZDnet.  The purpose of the site is seems to be to propagate memes the
> authors agree with.
> Click on Page One, you go to http://zdnet.com.com/2001-11-0.html
> (http://zdnet.net.net redirects to http://www.zdnet.com/) which has
> "Open-source flaw threatens MS code" and other items that wouldn't normaly
> show up on an corporate-ass-licking site like ZDnet.

No, ZDnet.com.com *is* zdnet:

Registrant:
CNET Networks, Inc (COM2994-DOM)
   235 2nd Street
   San Francisco, CA 94104
   US

   Domain Name: COM.COM

They just like to show off the fact that they own "com.com" lately.

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 14 16:20:53 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision
In-Reply-To: <01C1CB9B.A4352400@mse-d03>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, M H Stein wrote:

> It just aired tonight; cool! I have some 300bd modems
> that are bigger than yours, nyah, nyah!

I want to see them :)

> Freedom Fighters? Revolutionaries? Wow! And I thought we
> were just weirdos & nerds...

I vaguely remember saying something about that.  I was waxing loftiness.

> Nice car beside the loading dock; yours, Sellam? Maybe
> the next time we take up a collection it should be for you.

That belongs to one of the volunteers at the ACCRC :)

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From dtwright at uiuc.edu  Thu Mar 14 16:22:55 2002
From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
In-Reply-To: <01cc01c1cba1$dcc73320$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>
References:  <01cc01c1cba1$dcc73320$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>
Message-ID: <20020314222255.GA2842@uiuc.edu>

I dunno, it sure looks like it's really cnet to me -- see below...

> whois com.com

Registrant:
CNET Networks, Inc (COM2994-DOM)
   235 2nd Street
   San Francisco, CA 94104
   US

   Domain Name: COM.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Domain Contact, CNET Administrative  (AD417)  domain-admin@CNET.COM
      CNET: The Computer Network
      150 Chestnut Street
      San Francisco, California 94111
      (415) 364-8900
   Technical Contact:
      Hostmaster, CNET  (HC165)  hostmaster@CNET.COM
      CNET: The Computer Network
      150 Chestnut Street
      San Francisco, California 94111
      (415) 364-8900
   Billing Contact:
      idNames, Accounting  (IA90-ORG)  accounting@IDNAMES.COM
      idNames from Network Solutions, Inc
      440 Benmar
      Suite #3325
      Houston, TX 77060
      US
      703-742-4777
      Fax- - 281-447-1160

   Record last updated on 04-Dec-2001.
   Record expires on 04-Dec-2003.
   Record created on 04-Dec-2001.
   Database last updated on 14-Mar-2002 03:21:00 EST.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   NS.CNET.COM                  64.124.237.71
   NS2.CNET.COM                 128.11.40.194




Michael Nadeau said:
> > > This is from: http://zdnet.com.com/2110-1105-859957.html
> > zdnet.com.com is not infact ZDnet, but a very clever site pretending to be
> > ZDnet.  The purpose of the site is seems to be to propagate memes the
> > authors agree with.
> >
> > Click on Page One, you go to http://zdnet.com.com/2001-11-0.html
> > (http://zdnet.net.net redirects to http://www.zdnet.com/) which has
> > "Open-source flaw threatens MS code" and other items that wouldn't normaly
> > show up on an corporate-ass-licking site like ZDnet.
> >
> > -Philip
> 
> What makes you say that? Sure looks like the real thing to me. You can get
> to the Atari story from the genuine ZDNet site.
> 
> --Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Nadeau
> Editor/Publisher
> Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
> www.classictechpub.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:07 PM
> Subject: RE: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
> 
> 
> >
> > On 14-Mar-2002 Bryan Pope wrote:
> > > Jus' a little news blurb:
> > >
> > > Mar 14, 2002 8:30 AM PT
> > > Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
> > > Mobile phone maker Sony Ericsson on Thursday announced partnerships
> > > with two companies making games for mobile phones in its drive to
> > > challenge handset market leader Nokia through mobile entertainment.
> > >
> > > The newly formed handset maker, Sony Ericsson, said partnerships with
> > > iFone and Synergenix would enable consumers to download some games for
> > > free from the Sony Ericsson Web site, or access others for a fee from
> > > an operator's Web site. IFone will be providing games from its Atari
> > > catalogue, including classics such as Asteroids and Pong. --Reuters
> > >
> 
- Dan Wright
(dtwright@uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)

-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [-
``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
  For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.''
       Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan

From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 14 16:24:18 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <200203150357.g2F3vnO02333@mail2.bigmailbox.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, minespower steel wrote:

> VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS ATTENTION STRICTLY FOR YOU ONLY
>
> FROM THE DESK OF
> ALHAJI USMAN YERIMA.
> IKOYI, LAGOS.
> PHONE;234-803-3088-100
> BUSINESS ATTENTION.
> URGENT BUSINESS DEAL

If the number of these Nigerian scam offers I get is any indication, we're
now on a mailing list for these freaks and are doomed to receive at least
2-3 of these a week.

Now it is really time to clamp down on non-subscriber posts.  I mean for
real.  This is really getting annoying.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Thu Mar 14 16:39:09 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066499@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
	>ports.  No DMB32 or anything like that (not that I would mind
locating
	>one of _those_ either).  

	If only you'd asked 18 months ago :-)

	>As you can see, it's a full boat - 16MB of RAM in 5 cards.  I'd
love to
	>run across an inexpensive MS820-CA or two.  I wouldn't mind pulling
the

	If only you'd asked ... :-(

	>MS820-AAs out, but 16MB is an OK amount of memory for a single
user.  I'm
	>also on a long-term quest for free or nearly free KA825 boards -
I'd be
	>nice to bring this up to an 8350.

	If ... No, done that enough for one email. 

	If you can get three KA820s (or KA825s)
	you should be able to get that to work too!
	(But you cannot mix KA820 & KA825).

	>right from looking at where the Lance chip is on the DEBNT.  If
anyone
	>has installation instructions, particularly cabling instructions, 
	>those would be very helpful.

	The Owner's Manual is available at:

	     http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm

	as is the Installation Guide.

	I *thought* I'd also scanned and sent an
	install guide for one of the VAXBI ethernet
	options, but I guess not.

	When I had one in the lab, my VAX 8350 
	just mostly worked so I don't have too much
	experience of playing with the ethernet.
	The DSB32 and DMB32, and the CPU(s)
	and memory were all pretty straightforward.
	The only funny I remember with ethernet is
	that you need to cable up a little bit extra
	for the power required by the AUI in
	the bulkhead. But that may well have been
	the VAX 6000 ...

	Antonio



From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:33 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: Heads up...  free MVII/PDP-11 on eBay UK
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706649B@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>

	>Alistair (who wonders if he needs to buy a bigger car ... )

	Honestly, if it won't take a BA23, the answer is
	a definite yes :-)
	
	Antonio (who just seems to have been saved a trip:-) )


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 17:09:39 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:23 2005
Subject: DEC3000/300X memory?
In-Reply-To: <20020314031614.229.qmail@mail.seefried.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Ken Seefried wrote:
>
> Does anyone know a good, inexpensive source for the proprietary 32MB
> DEC3000/300 memory SIMMS.  I'd like to give my 3000 (300X in a rackmount
> kit) some longer legs.

  Ken, the SIMMs in my 3000/300x's are all standard "36-bit" true-parity
SIMMs.

  M.C. Howard usually has them at reasonable prices and ships wordlwide.

  http://www.mchoward.com  for their toll-free number.

	Doc


From ken at seefried.com  Thu Mar 14 17:23:08 2002
From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: DEC3000/300X memory?
In-Reply-To: <200203141806.g2EI6RI76499@ns2.ezwind.net> 
References: <200203141806.g2EI6RI76499@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <20020314232308.2777.qmail@mail.seefried.com>

From: Roger Merchberger 
>Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words:
>>> Does anyone know a good, inexpensive source for the proprietary 32MB 
>>> DEC3000/300 memory SIMMS.  
>>
>>Are they in fact proprietary?  I thought that it used the same as a
>>DEC3000/300LX.  With the 300LX, if I remember correctly, all you need is 
>>72-pin True Parity SIMMs.
>
>AFAIK, it's standard parity memory as well...  
>

Well...proprietary might be too strong a word, but no, regular 32MB parity 
memory does not work in a 3000/300.  The 32MB SIMMs have an extra resistor 
on them that the machine uses to detect that they are different.  See 
http://www.bucks.edu/alpha-osf-managers/Jul1998-59.html, among others 
(google if you need more). 

I've also got dozen or so regular 32MB true parity SIMMs out of PeeCees that 
I've verified don't work... 

Now...any old 70ns, true parity 8MB SIMMs will work, and I've got 8 of those 
in their already.  Oh, yeah...FYI...the 3000/300 takes 8MB or 32MB memory 
only. 

Ken 


From ken at seefried.com  Thu Mar 14 17:27:21 2002
From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: iSBX-251 Bubble Memory
Message-ID: <20020314232721.2788.qmail@mail.seefried.com>


My latest score is an iSBX-251 bubble memory card.  Tres kewl.  The bonus is 
that it showed up with a manual complete with schematics.  I've got to get a 
scanner working so I can get it on line, but if anyone has a question, drop 
me a line. 

Ken 

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:17 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:

> Because we're in America.  If you want accomodations like this then I
> imagine you're willing to either pay $200 or else be put up in a place
> called something like the Sunset Lodge where they also have hourly rates.

  I see that, at some point, you have travelled through Lubbock, Texas.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 18:07:34 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <000601c1cb82$5bb414c0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> Then there are the longer list of freeware mailers.  Theres no excuse for
> living with crud.  There is also no excuse for not knowing how to "drive"
> what you have.

  Pine.  It Isn't Just For Unix Anymore!
  There are Win32 ports now.  I think there's a fairly stable MacOS <10
port.
  Mutt has more features, and allows more granular tuning, but Pine is
way easy to drive.

	Doc


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Thu Mar 14 18:09:02 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References:  <3C90A96D.6DE566CF@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C913B9E.E7824EE2@adelphia.net>

Wow.. and I was going to execute a buy it now yesterday on an Alphaserver from
this guy... I should stay away from him huh?? Problems?



Chad Fernandez wrote:

> Please do, as I've had lucite-bakelite come up in searches.
>
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
>
> Russ Blakeman wrote:
> >
> > He had 4 others and truthfully I don't remember anymore. If I happen to dig
> > out old ebay paperwork that has it I'll post it.
> >
> > => -----Original Message-----
> > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
> > => Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:19 AM
> > => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > => Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
> > =>
> > =>
> > => > Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off
> > => ebay for lousy
> > => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it appears he runs the
> > => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
> > => trend in sales.
> > =>
> > => What username did he use before?
> > => --
> > => Eric Dittman
> > => dittman@dittman.net
> > => Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
> > =>

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 18:10:21 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> Is there any reason why I should switch away from PINE on a TELNET
> session?

  Only that SSH is the preferred remote session these days....
  Fred, I like you better all the time.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 18:15:14 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> "Social engineering" is still a primary problem.  Twice I have received
> e-mail that purported to be from Microsoft with a 170K attachment
> (Q216309.EXE).  It said to run that to patch security holes.  yeah,
> right.  MICROS~1 does NOT mail unsolicited security patches.

  Bullheaded users are even worse.
  I quit a pretty lucrative small-office IS-management contract 2 years
ago because I was absolutely unable to get the [otherwise intelligent]
owner of the firm to quit executing EVERY joke program that hit her
inbox.  You can see why the contract was lucrative, eh?  But I couldn't
deal with the frustration anymore.

	Doc


From rhudson at cnonline.net  Thu Mar 14 18:36:46 2002
From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: RT-11 and Supnik emulator
Message-ID: <3C91421E.6030105@cnonline.net>

I have the rt4 and rt53 disks and the emulator...

RL, 4 units
   unit 0, 2621KW, attached to rtv4_rk.dsk, write enabled, RL01
   unit 1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
   unit 2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
   unit 3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
sim> boot rl0

?BOOT-U- I/O error


HALT instruction, PC: 000724 (BR 722)
sim>

What is the proper incantation to boot this?

  :^)

thanks!


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 18:46:42 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: NetBSD Boot tape for MVII
In-Reply-To: <000801c1caaf$c94c6880$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> Even a dead board will power the AUI though that's about all.

  Bingo!!!
  I have that stripped BA123 in the garage that has a DEQNA
cable/bulkhead still in it.  After reading Allison's statement, I read
the DEQNA docs more carefully, and the LED's show correct activity on
the board itself.  So, after feeding the cats and bathing in sunburn
lotion, I swapped out the cab kit, and have netbooted the NetBSD kernel.
I think I'm going to netboot NBSD on NFS filesystems, use it to label
the local disks and see if I can get Quasijarus0a installed.

  I haven't yet tried the suggested boot tape images, but I probably
will, just to see what I was screwing up.

  Thanks to everyone for the help.


	Doc


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:25 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: RT-11 and Supnik emulator
In-Reply-To:  from "Ron Hudson" at Mar 14, 2002 04:36:46 PM
Message-ID: <200203150137.g2F1bPi19700@shell1.aracnet.com>

> I have the rt4 and rt53 disks and the emulator...
> 
> RL, 4 units
>    unit 0, 2621KW, attached to rtv4_rk.dsk, write enabled, RL01
>    unit 1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
>    unit 2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
>    unit 3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize
> sim> boot rl0
> 
> ?BOOT-U- I/O error
> 
> 
> HALT instruction, PC: 000724 (BR 722)
> sim>
> 
> What is the proper incantation to boot this?

What is your host OS/architecture?  What version of the emulator are you 
running.

Basically you're doing the correct thing to boot.

		Zane

From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Thu Mar 14 19:39:05 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <20020314193736.39356.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:

SPAM> 
> Since I have the hood open on my 8200, I thought I'd diagnose the
> troubles I've been having with getting a DEBNT working in there.
> The 8200 I have came with a KDB50, 4MB RAM and one CPU.  Nothing
> else (and was $13,000 when my former employer bought it - I just
> re-found the receipt).  The only serial ports are the four console
> ports.  No DMB32 or anything like that (not that I would mind locating
> one of _those_ either).  
> 
> Since it first arrived, I put in more RAM, COMBOARDs (that we made)
> and a DWBUA (which I'm diagnosing for its own problems).  I am now
> attempting to use a DEBNT I received some time back.  Here's what
> it looks like inside...
> 
> T1001  KA820    - 8200 CPU
> T1010  DWBUA    - Unibus adapter
> T1001  KA820    - 8200 CPU (not installed at present)
> T1002  KDB50    - KDB50 SDI adapter
> T1003  KDB50    - KDB50 Processor board
> T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
> T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
> T1019  MS820-BA - 4MB RAM for VAXBI processor
> T1008  MS820-AA - 2MB RAM for VAXBI processor
> T1008  MS820-AA - 2MB RAM for VAXBI processor
> 1294   CBSBI    - COMBOARD-BI (sync comms front end processor)
> T1032  DEBNT    - Ethernet and TK50 controller
> 
> (I used http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/VAXBI.html for reference)
> 
> As you can see, it's a full boat - 16MB of RAM in 5 cards.  I'd love to
> run across an inexpensive MS820-CA or two.  I wouldn't mind pulling the
> MS820-AAs out, but 16MB is an OK amount of memory for a single user.  I'm
> also on a long-term quest for free or nearly free KA825 boards - I'd be
> nice to bring this up to an 8350.
> 
> The disks are 3rd-party ESDI (1.2Gb each) drives on a 3rd-party ESDI-
> to-SDI controller.  Very nice.  Beats an RA81 hands down.  At the moment,
> I'm running VMS 5.4 and plan to continue for some time (due to
> compatibility needs for the COMBOARD stuff I used to write).  I do have
> a pair of RA70s I was thinking of putting on it as well.
> 
> So... the DEBNT itself fails self-test if there is nothing attached
> to the AUI connector.  If I attach a DEC loopback connector to the
> AUI plug, ISTR I get the yellow LED telling me it passed.  If I put
> a 10BaseT transceiver on there, the TX light stays lit with no networking
> drivers/software loaded.
> 
> First and foremost, I'm attempting to verify I put the cables on the
> right places.  I have 30-pin connector off one end of the AUI cable.
> I have a 30-pin connector with one wire attached that seems to be a
> jumper block of some kind.  At the moment, they are attached to the
> BI backplane at block "E", I think because that's what seemed to be
> right from looking at where the Lance chip is on the DEBNT.  If anyone
> has installation instructions, particularly cabling instructions, 
> those would be very helpful.
> 
> Once I get the hardware happy, I'll need to move to software.  Since
> I want to stay at VMS 5.4, what are my TCP/IP options as a hobbyist?
> The only other VAX I have set up with Ethernet is also running 5.4 -
> a uVAX-II with a DEQNA.  I do have VMS 6.1, but I'm not using it
> at the moment.
> 
> Thanks for any DEBNT and VAXBI tips and hints.  I have some docs, but not
> everything.  Mostly, I'm drawing on general VAX experience combined with
> observation and experimentation.  I know my way around the VAXBI bus, but
> not around some of the peripherals.
> 
> -ethan
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 

-- 


From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Thu Mar 14 19:44:47 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <20020314193736.39356.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Oops, wrong function key on the Wyse :-)

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> Once I get the hardware happy, I'll need to move to software.  Since
> I want to stay at VMS 5.4, what are my TCP/IP options as a hobbyist?
> The only other VAX I have set up with Ethernet is also running 5.4 -
> a uVAX-II with a DEQNA.  I do have VMS 6.1, but I'm not using it
> at the moment.

CMUIP is free alternative IP stack for earlier version of VAX/VMS.
It worked well for getting Multinet save sets on my M76.

Paul




From mhstein at canada.com  Thu Mar 14 19:56:56 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision
Message-ID: <01C1CB9B.A4352400@mse-d03>

It just aired tonight; cool! I have some 300bd modems
that are bigger than yours, nyah, nyah!

Freedom Fighters? Revolutionaries? Wow! And I thought we
were just weirdos & nerds...

Nice car beside the loading dock; yours, Sellam? Maybe
the next time we take up a collection it should be for you.

mike

---------Original Message------------

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:12:33 +0000 (UTC)
From: Vintage Computer Festival 
Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision

If any of you get MediaTelevision (a Canadian program) you can see a
segment on the VCF sometime this week.  There's a blurb on the segment on
their website:

http://www.mediatv.net/

After the Flash intro, there's a link called "VINTAGE COMPUTER" you can
click on.

I'm getting a copy of the taped segment sent to me.

- -- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival


From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 14 20:32:27 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 14, 2002 06:07:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203150232.g2F2WRY03610@narnia.int.dittman.net>

>   Pine.  It Isn't Just For Unix Anymore!
>   There are Win32 ports now.  I think there's a fairly stable MacOS <10
> port.
>   Mutt has more features, and allows more granular tuning, but Pine is
> way easy to drive.

I've tried both Mutt and Pine but I still prefer elm.  People
complain that elm doesn't handle non-ascii mail well, but for
me that's a bonus.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Thu Mar 14 20:45:51 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: info on IBM 4-slot PCMCIA controller
Message-ID: <00f801c1cbcb$863e1620$6b469280@y5f3q8>

So far, all I've found is two or three references to it on IBM's site.
Nothing comes up for the part number 40G1041.  At least, I think it's the
part number-- it looks like all the other part numbers.  Pretty sure it's on
topic too, at least the 82365s on the back are dated '92.  Anyone know what
the settings are?  It's got a 4-position DIP switch for `SLOT ADDR, `IRQ',
and `ROM ADDR', and also a slide-switch marked `BLK1 BLK0'.  I wonder what
that does.

I hope I can put this thing to use--it's really pretty nice, at least to
look at.  It's got little solenoids to physically lock the cards in the
slot.  Only trouble (aside from not knowing what it's set for) is that it's
just a hair too wide to fit into the two computers I've tried it in so far.
Hope I can find something to put it in!

Bob


From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Thu Mar 14 20:52:56 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: SPARCBook2 battery wanted
Message-ID: <00fe01c1cbcc$833d8ae0$6b469280@y5f3q8>

Anyone happen to have a spare battery for a SPARCBook2?  My newest toy runs
fine on the power adapter, but it's not as much fun as it could be.  I'm
interested even if it doesn't hold a charge-- new cells aren't that hard to
install.

Bob


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 20:57:16 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat
In-Reply-To: <200203092125.g29LPYi01772@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:

> >   I know about the *.Z != *.gz  but I thought *.Z = *.Z ??
> Read: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Quasijarus/compress.html and the other
> pages about Quasijarus to get an impression about the personality of
> Michael Sokolov, the Quasijarus maintainer. Mr. Sokolov is a bit,
> uhhmmm, "difficult"...
           ^^^^^^^^^
  After reading that page, I nominate Jochen "ClassicCmp Diplomat-of-
the-Year."
  So I've found several links discussing using NetBSD to convert the
Quasijaran .Z to .gz, but none of them say _how_.  How?  It looks like I
need to install BSD4.3-Quasijarus0a and build gzcompat so I can
uncompress the archives and build a Quasijarus0a install tape....

> Ahh, once the -Tahoe kernel is running it uses 7e1 on the console...

  Erk!  I missed this on the first read.  That might have been a
show-stopper...  Thanks.

> VS? You mean there is GPX graphics board set in it? Nice. I have to
> build a new bulkhead for the GPX in my MV III...

  Need info on the cable/bulkhead?  I have them, but I'm saving it.  The
GPX board seems a lot more common than the cab kit, and I'll want it
someday.

  Speaking of, I've sort of blindly assumed that "cab kit" is "cabinet
connector kit" and refers to everything from the adapter board to the
bulkhead plate and connector.  Is that more-or-less accurate?

	Doc



From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Thu Mar 14 21:00:40 2002
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: info on IBM 4-slot PCMCIA controller
Message-ID: <12c.e0b5885.29c2bdd8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/2002 9:54:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
rschaefe@gcfn.org writes:

<< So far, all I've found is two or three references to it on IBM's site.
 Nothing comes up for the part number 40G1041.  At least, I think it's the
 part number-- it looks like all the other part numbers.  Pretty sure it's on
 topic too, at least the 82365s on the back are dated '92.  Anyone know what
 the settings are?  It's got a 4-position DIP switch for `SLOT ADDR, `IRQ',
 and `ROM ADDR', and also a slide-switch marked `BLK1 BLK0'.  I wonder what
 that does.
 
 I hope I can put this thing to use--it's really pretty nice, at least to
 look at.  It's got little solenoids to physically lock the cards in the
 slot.  Only trouble (aside from not knowing what it's set for) is that it's
 just a hair too wide to fit into the two computers I've tried it in so far.
 Hope I can find something to put it in!
  >>
Sounds like it fits the IBM PS/2 E, machine type 9533. 

--  
Antique Computer Virtual Museum
www.nothingtodo.org

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:24 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat
In-Reply-To: Re: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat (Doc)
References: <200203092125.g29LPYi01772@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
	
Message-ID: <15505.25904.314161.473778@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 14, Doc wrote:
>   Speaking of, I've sort of blindly assumed that "cab kit" is "cabinet
> connector kit" and refers to everything from the adapter board to the
> bulkhead plate and connector.  Is that more-or-less accurate?

  Yup.

   -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL         "Less talk.  More synthohol." --Lt. Worf


From tosteve at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:36 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
Message-ID: <20020315030836.11043.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com>

Pick-up or pay shipping-all books, no software:

1. Multiscribe for Apple IIe/IIc
2. Multiscribe Picture Manager
3. Multiscribe Fontpak

4. Claris Appleworks
5. -- Getting Started
6. -- Quick Reference Card
7. -- Tutorial
8. -- Reference

9. 26 BASIC programs for your micro-Derrick Daines
1982

10. Tandy 1000 MS-DOS Reference
11. Practical Guide to Tandy 1000EX
12. Practical Guide to Tandy 1000TX

13. Apple II Appleworks Tutorial
14. Apple IIc Scribe User's Manual
15. Apple IIc Imagewriter User's Manual



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dan at ekoan.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:10 2002
From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Any information on Genrad 2620?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314220819.04dd2a30@enigma>

Is anyone familiar with a Genrad 2620?  There's one at a local surplus
warehouse but I can't seem to find anything informative via Google.
It's a "Field Service Processor" or something like that, with a fold-down
keyboard and a built-in CRT.  I can get pictures if it helps, but I'm
hoping that someone familiar with the unit would let me know if it's
worth picking up.


Cheers,

Dan


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:43 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Xerox XPS v4.2-v4.3.8
Message-ID: 


  What the heck is it?  A stack of TK50 tapes - is it a VMS add-on, an
OS, a printing subsystem or what?

	Doc


From dan at ekoan.com  Thu Mar 14 21:29:06 2002
From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Macintosh Portable power supply?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314221241.04dd5ec0@enigma>

I recently acquired a Macintosh Portable (M5120) but it came
without a power supply.  Does anyone have a spare they'd like
to get rid of?


Cheers,

Dan


From broth at heathers.stdio.com  Thu Mar 14 21:45:13 2002
From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: DEC RC25 docs
Message-ID: <20020315024602.2C08827ED90@mail.wzrd.com>

Does anyone have hardware docs for a DEC RC25 dual drive? I just received a 
couple and was planning to install one of them in my 11/725 but the power 
connectors are different. Any help would be appreciated. I am also looking 
for a spare CPU set for an 11/34.

I'll be out of town until Sun so thanks in advance.



Brian.

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 14 21:48:28 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Any information on Genrad 2620?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314220819.04dd2a30@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at Mar 14, 2002 10:12:10 PM
Message-ID: <200203150348.g2F3mSM03986@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Is anyone familiar with a Genrad 2620?  There's one at a local surplus
> warehouse but I can't seem to find anything informative via Google.
> It's a "Field Service Processor" or something like that, with a fold-down
> keyboard and a built-in CRT.  I can get pictures if it helps, but I'm
> hoping that someone familiar with the unit would let me know if it's
> worth picking up.

The Genrads I've seen were all testers.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From vaxman at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 22:04:17 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


A veritable one man show is that Michael Sokolov...

I've got a version of his uncompress somewhere that runs on FreeBSD, 
and the sources could be compiled on other *nixes...

Let me know if there is interest and I'll dig it up.

Clint

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> 
> > >   I know about the *.Z != *.gz  but I thought *.Z = *.Z ??
> > Read: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Quasijarus/compress.html and the other
> > pages about Quasijarus to get an impression about the personality of
> > Michael Sokolov, the Quasijarus maintainer. Mr. Sokolov is a bit,
> > uhhmmm, "difficult"...
>            ^^^^^^^^^
>   After reading that page, I nominate Jochen "ClassicCmp Diplomat-of-
> the-Year."
>   So I've found several links discussing using NetBSD to convert the
> Quasijaran .Z to .gz, but none of them say _how_.  How?  It looks like I
> need to install BSD4.3-Quasijarus0a and build gzcompat so I can
> uncompress the archives and build a Quasijarus0a install tape....
> 
> > Ahh, once the -Tahoe kernel is running it uses 7e1 on the console...
> 
>   Erk!  I missed this on the first read.  That might have been a
> show-stopper...  Thanks.
> 
> > VS? You mean there is GPX graphics board set in it? Nice. I have to
> > build a new bulkhead for the GPX in my MV III...
> 
>   Need info on the cable/bulkhead?  I have them, but I'm saving it.  The
> GPX board seems a lot more common than the cab kit, and I'll want it
> someday.
> 
>   Speaking of, I've sort of blindly assumed that "cab kit" is "cabinet
> connector kit" and refers to everything from the adapter board to the
> bulkhead plate and connector.  Is that more-or-less accurate?
> 
> 	Doc
> 
> 
> 


From mythtech at mac.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:52 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
Message-ID: 

>14. Apple IIc Scribe User's Manual

Is this the manual for the thermal AppleScribe printer? (sounds like it) 
If it is, can you toss it in the mail for me? Priority is fine with me 
(so you can get a free envelope or box, or whatever... it isn't a fragile 
item so a simple priority mail pouch will work well).

I can mail you cash, or stamps, or send paypal, or whatever you want to 
cover postage.

-chris




From rhb57 at vol.com  Thu Mar 14 22:31:30 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C913B9E.E7824EE2@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: 

Even if you didn't have anything about him - he has 9 negatives within a
year and only 150 unique positives - that should give you a hint.

Some people have done alright with him, the bulk either live through it and
never buy again, others end up going through the motions with ebay and him.

Just looked at my blocked bidder list and no I didn't enter any of his old
aliases since they bumped hi  before he became a problem.


--Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Barnes
=> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:09 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> Wow.. and I was going to execute a buy it now yesterday on an
=> Alphaserver from
=> this guy... I should stay away from him huh?? Problems?
=>
=>
=>
=> Chad Fernandez wrote:
=>
=> > Please do, as I've had lucite-bakelite come up in searches.
=> >
=> > Chad Fernandez
=> > Michigan, USA
=> >
=> > Russ Blakeman wrote:
=> > >
=> > > He had 4 others and truthfully I don't remember anymore. If
=> I happen to dig
=> > > out old ebay paperwork that has it I'll post it.
=> > >
=> > > => -----Original Message-----
=> > > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> > > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
=> > > => Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:19 AM
=> > > => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> > > => Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=> > > =>
=> > > =>
=> > > => > Speaking of this - the old dork that has been bumped 4x off
=> > > => ebay for lousy
=> > > => > sales, not shipping, etc is BACK on - this time it
=> appears he runs the
=> > > => > username "lucite-bakelite" and his feedback shows the same
=> > > => trend in sales.
=> > > =>
=> > > => What username did he use before?
=> > > => --
=> > > => Eric Dittman
=> > > => dittman@dittman.net
=> > > => Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
=> > > =>
=>
=> --
=> David Barnes
=> davebarnes@adelphia.net
=>
=> OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
=> and collector of DEC equipment
=>
=>
=>
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 22:33:06 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote:

>
> A veritable one man show is that Michael Sokolov...

  Yup.
  But wasn't that his proposal for building a SuperVAX that someone
forwarded a couple of weeks ago?  After reading that, I felt like I'd
had sex.  Really *good* sex.

> I've got a version of his uncompress somewhere that runs on FreeBSD,
> and the sources could be compiled on other *nixes...

  Roughly 2.4 seconds after I hit "send" on that post, it occured to me
to just try building the gzcompat source in NetBSD.  Duh.
  If that won't fly, I may ask you to dig it up.

	Doc


From pcw at mesanet.com  Thu Mar 14 22:42:07 2002
From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Xerox XPS v4.2-v4.3.8
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:

>
>   What the heck is it?  A stack of TK50 tapes - is it a VMS add-on, an
> OS, a printing subsystem or what?
>
> 	Doc
>
>

Xerox Publishing System? There is a Xerox XPS-700 which stands for Xerox
Publishing System

Maybe a VMS interface to Xerox's giant Interpress printers?


Peter Wallace


From fernande at internet1.net  Thu Mar 14 22:57:08 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: 
Message-ID: <3C917F24.E9979855@internet1.net>

I was looking at his feedback earlier today.  lucite-bakelite seems to
deal with one other Ebayer over and over again.  I looked at one of the
auctions and it was some sort of packaging thing. Weird.

He actually does have one item I may bid on.   He has a single device
case cable.  It's a little longer than I need, but they don't seem to
come up in my searches on Ebay.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Russ Blakeman wrote:
> 
> Even if you didn't have anything about him - he has 9 negatives within a
> year and only 150 unique positives - that should give you a hint.
> 
> Some people have done alright with him, the bulk either live through it and
> never buy again, others end up going through the motions with ebay and him.
> 
> Just looked at my blocked bidder list and no I didn't enter any of his old
> aliases since they bumped hi  before he became a problem.

From lgwalker at mts.net  Thu Mar 14 23:15:06 2002
From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: This is funny (ebay)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C77F60F.555.13C0DEB3@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C912EFA.27169.18A8A4FE@localhost>

 Nice guy to deal with. He absorbed the extra Canadian postage and also 
included a SCSI terminator. He even sent a message asking if I had received 
it OK.  I'm quite pleased.

Lawrence

> On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> >  Thanks for the heads-up. I just bought it for $3. I can use it with my
> >  Syquest 
> > on my STs with the ICD connector, my Amiga 3000, Macs and many other
> > items. Last time I looked they were about $30.
> >  Please don't hesitate to mention any other "funny" EPay items you 
> > encounter. HEHEHEHE
> 
> Please let us know how much he charges you for Canadian shipping.
> 
> BTW, if it does not work when connected SCSI to SCSI, he can say that he
> told you so - afterall, he did say that it was for SERIAL :-)
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  $30?  Canadian or US?
> At $3 plus "handling", it might be worth e-baying stuff that won't sell
> for $1 USD cash.
> 


lgwalker@mts.net
bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com

From jhfine at idirect.com  Thu Mar 14 23:18:03 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References: <200203150357.g2F3vnO02333@mail2.bigmailbox.com>
Message-ID: <3C91840B.5644F71C@idirect.com>

>minespower steel wrote:

> VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS ATTENTION STRICTLY FOR YOU ONLY
>
> FROM THE DESK OF
> ALHAJI USMAN YERIMA.
> IKOYI, LAGOS.
> PHONE;234-803-3088-100
> BUSINESS ATTENTION.
> URGENT BUSINESS DEAL
>
> I am pleased to send my greetings to you, I know
> this letter will definitely come to you as a surprise package, and you will be wondering how i came about your contact, actaully, i came about your contact when i was browsing through the internet, on looking for a trustworthy, confidential and honest partner with whom i can transact this business with, i then came about your contact and decided to contact you
>
> I am extending this proposal to you in my capacity as the chairman of the contractReview/Audit
> Committee scrutinizing all record covering executed contract awarded byprevious
> military government of Nigeria. My colleagues and I have uncovered afloating
> amount of USD$22,500,000.00 (TWENTY TWO MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND
> U.S.DOLLARS), without a clear beneficiary owing to a deliberate act of over
> invoicing and inflating of contract value by some government officials.This
> money (USD$22.5M),has already been approved for payment by the ministry of
> Mines, Powerand Steel and is secured under . As top civil servants we are not authorized
> to operate foreign bank account and this is why we want to use your bank account
> to transfer this money outside Nigeria. We have accepted you as our foreign
> partner and will now regularize the approvals to you as the trust beneficiary of
> the contractsum.As soon as we receive your acceptance, we shall inform you of
> the necessary requirements from you to facilitate transfer. Let us use this
> opportunity toexploit the benefit of this sum. We have resolved to give 20% of
> the totalsum as compensation for your assistance, 70% is for me and my partners
> here in Nigeria, 10% is set asideto cover every expenses made in the course of
> the transaction. Note that this should be confidential. Send your urgentresponse
> strictly through my E-mail: usmanyerima@onebox.com,as this is a confidential mailbox  Please do not fail to reply
> me with your private Telephone and fax numbers for easy communication.
> Yours faithfully,
>
> THANKS AND GOD BLESS
>
> USMAN YERIMA
>
> ps; while I await your reply at most by tuesday, if you do not reply, I
> will have no choice but to find another alternative.

Anyone interested in seeing where the money should be sent?  Should be able
to have a bit of fun.  I though there had been enough publicity on this one that
everyone would remember the Nigeria scam by now.

Also, do any of the police in Nigeria care?  Can police in any other
country trace this sort of thing?  Or do the police just say to toss
it and forget it?

Better have a well protected site - they may just be sending back a virus!


From jhfine at idirect.com  Thu Mar 14 23:26:44 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: OT: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
Message-ID: <3C918614.A07C1E8C@idirect.com>

>Sellam Ismail wrote:

> No it doesn't, so don't blame Pegasus.  I use Pegasus V4 as well, upgraded
> from V3.  You had to have turned on HTML in e-mail for it to do
> that...don't try to scapegoat Pegasus.
>
> Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
> website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
> times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
> software.
> http://www.pmail.com

I have been using Netscape for about 4 years - I have a complete set of
files with old stuff.  Can Pegasus cope with old Netscape e-mails?

Also, what about newsgroups?  Can Pegasus handle those as well?
And finally, what about http and ftp?


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 14 23:42:19 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Xerox XPS v4.2-v4.3.8
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> Xerox Publishing System? There is a Xerox XPS-700 which stands for Xerox
> Publishing System

  Yeah, that's it.

> Maybe a VMS interface to Xerox's giant Interpress printers?

  I don't know.  I bought a carton of surplus tapes, and they're in the
pile.

	Doc


From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 14 23:46:51 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C917F24.E9979855@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 14, 2002 11:57:08 PM
Message-ID: <200203150546.g2F5kpc04786@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> I was looking at his feedback earlier today.  lucite-bakelite seems to
> deal with one other Ebayer over and over again.  I looked at one of the
> auctions and it was some sort of packaging thing. Weird.

I noticed that as well, but since there's a limit of one
feedback per user, that can't be him jacking up his feedback
rating.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 15 00:17:08 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
Message-ID: <20020315061847.ENRV28165.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Stan Barr 

> Just curious, but what do you guys *do* with ZX81s?  I've got one rebuilt
in
> a large box with loads of i/o ports and a2d converter running
multi-tasking 
> Forth, but I've not plugged it in for a while...

Okay, check out:

http://home.freiepresse.de/befis/zx96_e.htm

Then tell me what you *can't* do with a ZX81 ;>)

We can:

scan documents
control overhead projectors
control CNC tools and other robotics
run BBSs
play audio CDs
load programs from CDs
burn EPROMs

In addition to the above, we also use:

AT- and PS/2-style keyboards
5.25" fdds
3.5" fdds
IDE hdds
LCD screens

I've heard that a TCP/IP protocol handler will be unveiled at this year's
meeting.

Sure, some of these operations are slow, but the point is that we're doing
a *lot* with "obsolete" hardware.  If we can get this kind of functionality
out of a Z80-based system, what could *really* be done with a 486-100,
P233, or P4-2.2 GHz system, given the time and brainpower?

Sellam once said that the ZX-TEAMers were "fanatical hackers."  How else is
science advanced, other than fanatical hacking (and dumb luck)?

My personal project is WIN-ZX, which will perform many of the tasks Windows
3.1 handled for the PC.  Presently it requires a 64KB system with a
MEFISDOS-based IDE hard drive, but I hope to trim it down to 16KB and
cassette tape.

Hope you join us for the chat --

Glen
0/0

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Fri Mar 15 00:34:57 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
References: <20020314193736.39356.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C919611.5020405@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Ethan,


did you look at my VAXanatomy page? I have a picture of the VAXBI
back side detai,ing some of the ethernet. You put the AUI cable
and a terminator (!) in section E of that slot. May be you forgot
the terminator?

http://aurora.rg.iupui.edu/~schadow/VAX/anatomy/small/DSCN0003.jpg

and http://aurora.rg.iupui.edu/~schadow/VAX/anatomy for the whole
story.

Hope that helps,
-Gunther


> So... the DEBNT itself fails self-test if there is nothing attached
> to the AUI connector.  If I attach a DEC loopback connector to the
> AUI plug, ISTR I get the yellow LED telling me it passed.  If I put
> a 10BaseT transceiver on there, the TX light stays lit with no networking
> drivers/software loaded.
> 
> First and foremost, I'm attempting to verify I put the cables on the
> right places.  I have 30-pin connector off one end of the AUI cable.
> I have a 30-pin connector with one wire attached that seems to be a
> jumper block of some kind.  At the moment, they are attached to the
> BI backplane at block "E", I think because that's what seemed to be
> right from looking at where the Lance chip is on the DEBNT.  If anyone
> has installation instructions, particularly cabling instructions, 
> those would be very helpful.


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Fri Mar 15 00:38:38 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: impressive CI - SCSI storage rack from MTI (RAID?)
References: <3C9034A9.1000605@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C90A973.403B0FA7@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3C9196EE.5030409@aurora.regenstrief.org>

David Barnes wrote:

> Sounds like an MTI Stingray subsystem... what specifically would you like to
> know? I had a few in operation years ago on a cluster of 6230's.


For example, what are all those boxes for? What is the simplest way
of attaching other SCSI devices, such as my DAT drive or random
SCSI disks? Can I plug those directly into the CI/HSC box or is all
that other gear needed? How do I operate the front panel, how do
I change node numbers, how address the disks? Is it juts exactly like
an HSC?

thanks,
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From univac2 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 00:40:59 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

on 3/14/02 4:24 PM, Sellam Ismail at foo@siconic.com wrote:

> If the number of these Nigerian scam offers I get is any indication, we're
> now on a mailing list for these freaks and are doomed to receive at least
> 2-3 of these a week.
> 
> Now it is really time to clamp down on non-subscriber posts.  I mean for
> real.  This is really getting annoying.

Just wait until we start getting stuff with lots of pictures. Those get old
*fast*. And that's the voice of experience speaking.

--
Owen Robertson


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 00:42:27 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: info on IBM 4-slot PCMCIA controller
In-Reply-To: <12c.e0b5885.29c2bdd8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315064227.70131.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com>


--- SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/14/2002 9:54:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> rschaefe@gcfn.org writes:
> 
> << So far, all I've found is two or three references to it on IBM's site.
>  Nothing comes up for the part number 40G1041...
>   >>
> Sounds like it fits the IBM PS/2 E, machine type 9533. 

Sure does.  And I have this PS/2 E that could use one... if you don't find
a place for it, let me know.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Fri Mar 15 00:43:08 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Fun with a DWUBA
References: <20020313155753.65347.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9197FC.2030601@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Ethan Dicks wrote:


> OTOH, I did drop the T1010 card in the VAX and look for its presence on
> the bus.  With the cables disconnected, the card fails self-test (Duh!)
> but when I go to read the ident register of the DWBUA (E 20000000), I
> get back FFFFFFFF, not the expected value (as documented in the manual).
> Having written VMS VAXBI drivers in the past, I can say that this is not
> good.  The card "shows up" - the POST shows a "-0", so the VAXBIIC of
> the DWBUA is detected, but it's exceedingly unhappy.  I am suspecting
> that the card is more fried than one chip.  I'll keep working on it to
> see if the card needs a rudimentary amount of attachment to the UNIBUS
> to get far enough into its self-test to initialize the ident register,
> but I'm not hopeful about it - I think it should show the world what
> it is, even if it's unhappy.


Well, not necessarily. I remember having seen such behavior with
the KDB50 when I didn't install it quite properly. The new DWUBA is
coming along, in case you need it.


> Fortunately, I have docs for all of this.  At this time, I suspect the
> M9313 UET, the DD11DK, the cables and the T1010 card.  I just have to narrow
> down the list of suspects.  I suppose I could drop the card in with the
> chip at risk removed and a lead hanging out so I can monitor what's
> happening on that pin.  The pin itself happens to go to the outer-most
> pad on the VAXBI bus, looking at the board, it's the farthest pad
> from the VAXBIIC on the solder side.  It goes diagonally in more-or-less
> a straight line to a pin of a DEC DC021C, 4 or 5, IIRC (it's not in front
> of me here).  Either that pin sources a whopping amount of current
> from the DC021 and it was shorted to ground by a bad cable or a problem
> in the BA11, or somehow a very wrong voltage came from the BA11 into
> that pin.  It's the only way I can see how a trace can get cooked and
> the chip melted at that pin.


What scares me about it is that you put in the new DWUBA and it
might just fry as much as the old one.


good luck,
-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 00:53:28 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <3C919611.5020405@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020315065328.2579.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> Ethan,
> 
> 
> did you look at my VAXanatomy page? I have a picture of the VAXBI
> back side detai,ing some of the ethernet. You put the AUI cable
> and a terminator (!) in section E of that slot. May be you forgot
> the terminator?
> 
> http://aurora.rg.iupui.edu/~schadow/VAX/anatomy/small/DSCN0003.jpg

Nice picture.  It shows the AUI cable connector going into section D.
Mine is going into E.  Perhaps there's part of the problem.

Also, when you say "terminator", what does that look like?  The pictures
on your page are less than clear.  What I have appears to be a 30-pin
connector with a single wire going from one pin to another.  No components
that I can see.

Thanks for the info... it's a nudge in the right direction, that's for
sure.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From mythtech at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 00:55:55 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
Message-ID: 

>Is this the manual for the thermal AppleScribe printer?
...

DOH! that was supposed to be sent off list... sorry

-chris




From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com  Fri Mar 15 01:09:58 2002
From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: impressive CI - SCSI storage rack from MTI (RAID?)
In-Reply-To: <3C9196EE.5030409@aurora.regenstrief.org>
References: <3C9034A9.1000605@aurora.regenstrief.org>
 <3C90A973.403B0FA7@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314230657.029687f0@209.185.79.193>

At 01:38 AM 3/15/02 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote:
 >For example, what are all those boxes for?

Well this machine probably implements both SCA and CI, and on the SCSI 
drives implements RAID.

 >What is the simplest way of attaching other SCSI devices, such as my DAT
 > drive or random SCSI disks?

DAT drives might work, but "random SCSI disks" most definitely won't work. 
If its any sort of RAID box the disks must all be the same size and matched 
in speed. This allows the box to stripe data across several drives. The 
benefits are speed and data protection since you can set it up so that 
losing any single drive can be recovered from automatically.

 > Can I plug those directly into the CI/HSC box or is all that other gear 
needed?

I'm betting you need to power up the whole kit and kaboodle.

--Chuck



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 01:10:36 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Fun with a DWUBA
In-Reply-To: <3C9197FC.2030601@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020315071036.49856.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
> > OTOH, I did drop the T1010 card in the VAX and look for its presence on
> > the bus...

OK... moving right along, I have checked everything out step by step and
a) nothing smoked :-) , but b) nothing worked.  :-(
 
> > Fortunately, I have docs for all of this...

According to the docs, when I read the general purpose register at
200000f0, it tells me that the card failed test 3 which is an internal
RAM test.  I swapped gate arrays with the other card (socketed) and
there was no change in the test behavior.  Not surprising, really; the
original fault seems to have roached both boards, so the same parts
are at risk.  Only one PCB was damaged, so that's fortunate.

There's something deeper wrong with this board that simple visual
inspection does not reveal.
 
> What scares me about it is that you put in the new DWUBA and it
> might just fry as much as the old one.

Nope... I did a systematic test and had it all plugged in and not
smoking earlier tonight.  I started by ensuring I knew which pin
on the Unibus cable and paddle card was connected to the fried trace - 
it was Unibus pin AU2 - one of the grant signals.  I checked for wierd
voltages at the T1010 end with the BA-11 powered on - nothing.  Next,
I checked for direct shorts to ground.  Nope.  I then powered up the
BA-11 and not the BA-32 (well... the BA-32 was in standby which activates
the DEC power bus to turn on the BA-11) with all cables and boards in
place - monitoring the affected pin showed TTL-compatible voltages (between
1.8 and 3.5VDC).  Finally, I did a quick on-check-off test... no odd
readings on AU2.  I inspected the board, no warmth where there had been
problems before.  I did a longer on-check-off test and verified that 
I still got no yellow LED and a "-0" on the BI POST.  Board still did not
show odd warmness.

>From this point, I was confident that I wasn't going to roach anything.
I stepped through the diagnostic procedure in the DWBUA Technical Manual
for the section that covers "light does not come on".  It was there that
it mentioned checking the base address + F0 (a BIIC register that is
available for any use the module designer sees fit - there are 4 total;
we used one in the COMBOARD-BI as the "window" register we implemented
in hardware ourselves with previous COMBOARD designs).  In the case
of the DWBUA, it is a status register that indicates if the Unibus is
powered up or not, and what the results of the selftest were.  Since I
read a 00030081, it tells me that test "03" was where it failed, and
the rest of the register is undefined (it should read 00000001 when
all is well - Unibus powered up, no snags with the diagnostics).

> The new DWUBA is coming along, in case you need it.

Cool.  I think I do.  Looks like I have either an address fault or
a data fault with the "IRAM" on the card.  Could be a RAM chip, could
be a logic chip.  None of that stuff is socketed except a PAL or two.

At least I can drop it in my box without fear of letting out the smoke.
I wish I knew why the previous ones smoked.  Perhaps the cable got
crimped.  Perhaps I was using a different M9313 card on the bus and
that one had a short to ground on AU2 (I have more than 4 UETs and I
don't know which one was in the BA-11 8 years ago).

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tosteve at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 01:23:17 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020315072317.18343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Chris,
I'll look closer at it and get back to you!
Steve.

--- Chris  wrote:
> >14. Apple IIc Scribe User's Manual
> 
> Is this the manual for the thermal AppleScribe
> printer? (sounds like it) 
> If it is, can you toss it in the mail for me?
> Priority is fine with me 
> (so you can get a free envelope or box, or
> whatever... it isn't a fragile 
> item so a simple priority mail pouch will work
> well).
> 
> I can mail you cash, or stamps, or send paypal, or
> whatever you want to 
> cover postage.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 01:32:20 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
Message-ID: <004601c1cbf3$8ad39ca0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
>
> > > Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
> > > website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
> > > times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes off as
> > > software.
> > >
> > > http://www.pmail.com
> > >
> > > Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
> >
> > There's something worse -- it's called Netscape mail.  We were just forced to start using it (or, alternatively, the even worse
AOL
> > Mail) at work "because we own it."  Completely unconfigurable.
> >
> > Am I missing something, but aren't OE and Netscape freeware too?
>
> Free as in "free from crashing your computer" and "free from allowing
> e-mail viruses to destroy your files" and "free from Bill Gates'
> stranglehold on all that is impure and horrid".
>
Well to be honest, before Netscape mail,  I was using Outlook (not OE) at work.  No problems for 2 years straight -- never down.
In fact, I had never even heard the term "kicked off" until I started using Netscape last month.  Now I'm "kicked off" four of five
times a day.  But that's ok, because when it happens, I know who is to blame, especially in the late afternoon when I'm restarting
Netscape Mail for the 4th or 5th time, because then I think about everything that Netscape Mail could be, but isn't, because of all
those anticompetitive things that MS did, I mean, everyone know's it's all MS's fault.  I wasn't born yesterday and I'm not fooled
at all by Outlook, even if it was up 24 hours a day for two years running, and allowed me to put the sender column on the far left
(where it should be).  That's no reason to use it, or even tolerate it, and thankfully I don't have that option any more.  I'm not
suffering, I'm liberated.  (I'm also wasting about 20 minutes a day.)







From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 01:44:38 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <20020315065328.2579.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315074438.53356.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> 
> --- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> > Ethan,
> > 
> > 
> > did you look at my VAXanatomy page? I have a picture of the VAXBI
> > back side detai,ing some of the ethernet. You put the AUI cable
> > and a terminator (!) in section E of that slot. May be you forgot
> > the terminator?
> > 
> > http://aurora.rg.iupui.edu/~schadow/VAX/anatomy/small/DSCN0003.jpg
> 
> Nice picture.  It shows the AUI cable connector going into section D.
> Mine is going into E.  Perhaps there's part of the problem.

Nevermind... I was looking in the wrong slot.  I see the AUI cable
in the lower right side of the photo.  I see a pull-tab for the
"terminator".  Can you either describe it in more detail or take a
close-up photo?

Thanks,

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Fri Mar 15 01:48:32 2002
From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:24 2005
Subject: Breaking into my Newton
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020315184542.02296a10@kerberos.davies.net.au>

At 02:34 PM 10/03/2002 -0500, Chris wrote:

>IIRC, if you hold the power button ON (slide the switch down like you are
>turning it on, but hold it down), and then press the reset button inside
>the battery compartment... that will wipe the system memory. That will
>reset the password as well as wipe out EVERYTHING you might have had
>loaded.... basically it defaults it back to factory settings. (Although,
>I think any system upgrades you installed are preserved).
>
>There is probably a tech note about this on Apple's web site, as it was a
>fairly common issue back in the Newton days.

Well after a week or so of worrying about what my password could be (and 
trying lots of them) it came to me a few minutes ago. Success, I now have 
access to my Newton!

I'd forgotten how good the user interface was and how bad the character 
recognition is. User interface is better than that on my iPAQ (running 
Linux) but until I retrain the Newton, it's the keyboard for me.

Guess the next steps are to get new batteries and work out how to 
synchronize things. If I could get my Outlook appointments downloaded 
perhaps I could start using it for work!

Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
                      | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
                      | air, the sky would be painted green" 


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:31 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066499@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
Message-ID: <20020315075431.9039.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Carlini, Antonio"  wrote:
> 
> > Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > 
> 	>No DMB32... (not that I would mind locating
> 	>one of _those_ either).  
> 
> 	If only you'd asked 18 months ago :-)

Sigh.  Woe is me.  Ah well... perhaps another one will float to the
top, now that I'm using mine again.  As I've said, I need a Unibus-
equipped VAX, and once I get a DWBUA on it, I'll be all set.  The
goodies I mentioned here are most definitely optional.

> 	If you can get three KA820s (or KA825s)
> 	you should be able to get that to work too!

Three CPUs on the BI bus?  Does that work?  I thought it maxed out at
two.  Perhaps they work, but they spend more time tripping over each
other than performing useful tasks?

> 	(But you cannot mix KA820 & KA825).

I knew that.  Also, you can't mix boards of the same type with different
microcode revs.  I had to juggle my KA820s when I got them because they
were nowhere near the same rev.  Fortunately, I still have the microcode
floppies I used back then.  Should be useful for dumping/loading any
KA825s I find, unless they come as a matched set.
 
> 	The only funny I remember with ethernet is
> 	that you need to cable up a little bit extra
> 	for the power required by the AUI in
> 	the bulkhead. But that may well have been
> 	the VAX 6000 ...

OK... I think mine came out of an 8xxx (a Nautilus-class machine,
not a Scorpio (82xx/83xx)).  Don't know anything about an extra
cable.

I know that 12V is available to the bus in a BA-32 - we sent +/-12VDC
down our wires to power the 1488s and 1489s on the I/O bulkhead for
the COMBOARD-BI.  Caused us no end of headache - I tried to tell the
design engineer that DEC stuff was designed for reverse-oriented cables;
stuff might not work, but it wouldn's smoke.  If a customer swaps our
cables left-right _and_ installs them 180 degrees turned around (not
as difficult to do as it sounds), it sends +12VDC into one of the 74AS645
chips on the bulkhead PCB.  We had just about every customer try it once.
Even if they guessed correctly the first time, if things didn't work
perfectly, they tried it the other way.  :-(  The only installs that
went smoothly were the ones I did.  :-P

Anyway... I know 12V is available.  I don't know if it's run down the
pipe properly with a DEBNT or not in a BA-32.

Any additional data would be handy.  I guess I can go check the proper
pins on the AUI connector for voltage.  No voltage is a bad sign.  It
means I have to kludge up or locate a cable.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 03:13:35 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <3C9207EB.7080301@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:

> Maybe you would find it addresses your annoyance more satisfactorily to
> go to your nearest friendly local ambitious DA keen to to be seen as
> tough on Internet fraud, and offer him or her this here low-hanging
> fruit. Call in the FTC, FDIC, your bank manager, etc. and set up a
> sting. Whatever. Then, when you find out who it is, and where they are,
> let me know and I'll gladly go beat the living crap out of them.

Look, I couldn't care less who falls for this scam. The way I see it, it
will just put money in the hands of people smarter than the ones losing
it, and that's a net positive effect.

I just don't want this shit to litter my ClassicCmp inbox.  Regular spam
was bad enough, this is simply horrid.

> However, annoying as spam may be, I don't see how that justifies turning
> the list into a ghetto. Restricting access because it might be abused is
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It punishes the innocent as
> well as the guilty. That's just wrong, whatever you think about spam.
> There's no valid reason for this list to be restricted this way.

HELL-FUCKING-O!??  Whoever said we would be restricting access!?  Nothing
personal, James, but you and everyone else who keeps bringing this
non-issue up are idiots!  Anyone who wants to post can SUBSCRIBE!  That's
why it's called a MAILING LIST!  You SUBSCRIBE to a MAILING LIST so that
you can participate!

I don't subscribe to a mailing list so that I can be bombarded with SPAM
from it!  FUCK!!!!!!!

> It's also damaging. The people we want to reach are precisely those who
> will frankly just not bother to offer old gear to be rescued if they
> have to go to the trouble of subscribing.

SCREW THEM THEN!  I DON'T WANT THEIR SHIT!

> Personally, I will unsubscribe if this happens.

BYE!

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 03:19:07 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: <20020315155221.33070.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> I'll write him directly, but I wanted to mention a $0.75 thrift-store
> purchase - a correspondence course in computer programming, complete
> with sample punch cards, focusing on the 1401 as the target processor.

Oooh, what was the title?

> I'm sure it was from an estate . Got a couple of OS/360 books for $0.50
> the same day. Never saw anything good at that thrift store again and now
> it's closed (a real shame... it was 2 blocks from my house; I used to
> have two thrifts within walking distance, and they are both gone now).

I have several locally (not within walking distance, which is probably a
good thing) but the best one closed down.  I pulled a lot of good stuff
out of there in the couple years they were open.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From alan.pearson at cramer.com  Fri Mar 15 03:31:46 2002
From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Heads up...  free MVII/PDP-11 on eBay UK
Message-ID: 

> > Apparently, this chap has a free PDP11 & MicroVax-II going to
> > a good home...
> >
> The PDP-11/73 will be taking a car journey here next week ... I think -
but
> am not sure - that the Vax is also spoken for.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Digest blues strike again :-)

Ah well.
Al.

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Sokolov Compression & gzcompat
In-Reply-To: 
References: <200203092125.g29LPYi01772@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
Message-ID: <20020315104126.A266306@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 08:57:16PM -0600, Doc wrote:

>   After reading that page, I nominate Jochen "ClassicCmp Diplomat-of-
> the-Year."
Thanks, but you haven't seen me when I am in BOFH mode...
MUUAAAhahaha. :-)

>   So I've found several links discussing using NetBSD to convert the
> Quasijaran .Z to .gz, but none of them say _how_.  How?  It looks like I
> need to install BSD4.3-Quasijarus0a and build gzcompat so I can
> uncompress the archives and build a Quasijarus0a install tape....
gzcompat is included in this plain, uncompressed tar file:
ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/bsd/UnixArchive/4BSD/Distributions/components/compress.tar
With this you can simply do a
cat Quasi.Z | gzcompat | gzip -d > Quasi

>   Need info on the cable/bulkhead?  
I have a PDF with the scanned QDSS tech man. The pinout schould be in there. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From asholz at topinform.com  Fri Mar 15 03:45:57 2002
From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: WTB: HP-IB CD-Rom
Message-ID: <3C91C2D5.1050306@topinform.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for a HP-IB CD-Rom drive.

Kind regards from Germany

Andreas


From asholz at topinform.com  Fri Mar 15 03:51:37 2002
From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Schematics or repar informations for a HP9845B
Message-ID: <3C91C429.5080304@topinform.com>

Hi all,

I'm interested in any information/documentation regarding the hardware 
of a HP9845, e.g. schematics, support and repair informations.

Kind regards

Andreas


From mikeford at socal.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 03:54:57 2002
From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Macintosh Portable power supply?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314221241.04dd5ec0@enigma>
References:  <20020313195641.45511.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

>I recently acquired a Macintosh Portable (M5120) but it came
>without a power supply.  Does anyone have a spare they'd like
>to get rid of?
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dan

I have original portable power supplies, but unless you have a good battery
they won't boot the system. I forget which of the later power supplies is
better, but I am pretty sure I have a few of those too. Email me with zip
and I can figure out a fair price.



From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 05:14:50 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <3C923854.7010702@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:

> > Look, I couldn't care less who falls for this scam. The way I see it, it
> > will just put money in the hands of people smarter than the ones losing
> > it, and that's a net positive effect.
>
> I wouldn't exactly call the sender a rocket scientist, what with begging
> for a easy felony conviction, but you're right, that's irrelevant.

They're in some third-world African nation where the government is most
likely in on the scam.  I doubt their local authorities would do anything
less than laugh at anyone actually filing a complaint with them.

> You know, if it was for real, I really would be upset by it. The nerve
> of some grafting bureaucrat or despotic politician who probably sucked
> the life's blood out of their fellow countrymen whining about being
> deprived of their ill-gotten booty. I'd direct them to the nearest
> firing squad, not help them get their millions back.

I don't care if it's an advertisement for penis enlargment pills or some
woe-is-me scam story, it's still spam, and it DOESN'T BELONG HERE, and we
welcome it by keeping the list open to non-subscribers.

> I'm just telling you like it is. It's called outreach. There is gear in
> the hands of people who, say, come across the archives from links, who
> will have no interest whatsoever in subscribing, and we need to keep it
> as easy as possible for them to post, or stuff will get junked that
> shouldn't.

And I've offered many fine solutions, as have others (the one requiring
non-subscribers to confirm their posting is the best) but they've all been
ignored.

I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I suggest
we find a new operator.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 05:18:07 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A789@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> Anyway, you get a page where the host system looks up the
> actual e-mail address, then constructs a graphic image
> ON THE FLY that is a "picture" of the poster's e-mail
> address.
>
> Gonna take a hell of a bot to break through that...

Not really.  OCR algorithms are easily available I'm sure.

Decent system though.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 05:19:23 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: OT: spamming about spam (was Re: urgent business/investment deal)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, John Lawson wrote:

>   What's kinda amusing about this is that various gullible/clueless
> folks have actually sent substantial money to these clowns like these -
> of course this is a fairly old and well-known scam that comes from
> several African (and other) sources in the region.

A client of my tax guy actually fell for this to the tune of $100,000+.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Fri Mar 15 06:52:35 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: impressive CI - SCSI storage rack from MTI (RAID?)
References: <3C9034A9.1000605@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C90A973.403B0FA7@adelphia.net> <3C9196EE.5030409@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C91EE93.8B20536C@adelphia.net>

its similiar to an HSC in operation, setup is quite different.  If I recall
correctly we never were able to make 'just any scsi disk' work properly with it...
So we just stuck with the disks that were 'qualified' by MTI.
Lemme see if I can dig up some docs... I might still have that stuff buried
somewhere...



Gunther Schadow wrote:

> David Barnes wrote:
>
> > Sounds like an MTI Stingray subsystem... what specifically would you like to
> > know? I had a few in operation years ago on a cluster of 6230's.
>
> For example, what are all those boxes for? What is the simplest way
> of attaching other SCSI devices, such as my DAT drive or random
> SCSI disks? Can I plug those directly into the CI/HSC box or is all
> that other gear needed? How do I operate the front panel, how do
> I change node numbers, how address the disks? Is it juts exactly like
> an HSC?
>
> thanks,
> -Gunther
>
> --
> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
> Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
> Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
> tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 06:54:28 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: OT SPAM ABOOT OT SPAM Re: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:

> > They're in some third-world African nation where the government is most
> > likely in on the scam.  I doubt their local authorities would do anything
> > less than laugh at anyone actually filing a complaint with them.
>
> Or so is purported. Even if so, official collusion will evaporate
> instantaneously if credible evidence of wire fraud is presented by and
> to the right parties. Nobody wants to lose their cushy IMF sinecures.
> Again, it's of little relevance to the spam issue.

Um, James, do you realize how long these scams have been going on for?  If
you think the lame amount of money the IMF would give Nigeria if they
cracked down on the scams that originate from there even begins to compare
to the money that is reaped from these scams then you need to snap out of
the haze you're in.

> Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing
> his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't
> know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into
> it.

Jay pokes his head in here once or twice a month and doesn't know what's
going on.  Most of the time he doesn't even respond to e-mails.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From rhb57 at vol.com  Fri Mar 15 06:56:27 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C917F24.E9979855@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

Chad what kind of cable (SCSI) - I have a ton of them, especially PS/2
68MC - and I'm just getting started with spring cleaning and excess selling.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:57 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> I was looking at his feedback earlier today.  lucite-bakelite seems to
=> deal with one other Ebayer over and over again.  I looked at one of the
=> auctions and it was some sort of packaging thing. Weird.
=>
=> He actually does have one item I may bid on.   He has a single device
=> case cable.  It's a little longer than I need, but they don't seem to
=> come up in my searches on Ebay.
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Russ Blakeman wrote:
=> >
=> > Even if you didn't have anything about him - he has 9
=> negatives within a
=> > year and only 150 unique positives - that should give you a hint.
=> >
=> > Some people have done alright with him, the bulk either live
=> through it and
=> > never buy again, others end up going through the motions with
=> ebay and him.
=> >
=> > Just looked at my blocked bidder list and no I didn't enter
=> any of his old
=> > aliases since they bumped hi  before he became a problem.
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 3/11/2002


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 07:08:46 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A773@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > > Chris , I'm sorry, you're totally wrong. The 26 pin connector is for an 
> > >Apple Audio Vision monitor. No F--king Dongle. 
> > I said a number of times, I have NOT used the DOS card that works with 
> > the 630/6100... and that is the card in question.
> > 
> > But I CAN tell you that EVERY OTHER dos card Apple made, needs a video 
> > dongle... and they ALL connect via a DB-26 connector on the back of the 
> > DOS card... which is exactly what the person described on the back of 
> > their DOS card.
> > 
> > Now, it is quite possible that Apple put an AppleVision port on the 
> > 630/6100 DOS card, why, I would have NO idea, since the 630 can't use an 
> > applevision monitor... but maybe they did.
> > 
> > HOWEVER, on the back of the 6100... is an HDI-45 video port... THAT is an 
> > AppleVision video port. That is NOT the same thing as the DB-26 on the 
> > DOS cards. Totally different port, totally different function. 
> > BUT... I have heard that you do not need a video dongle with the 630/6100 
> > DOS card... I just can't confirm it one way or the other... and again, 
> > since they are describing EXACTLY what will happen to a Quadra 610 
> > Houdini DOS card if the dongle is not connected... I felt it was a good 
> > guess that they might in fact need one.
> > 
> > Now I am REALLY going to have to get 630/6100 DOS card... just so I can 
> > figure out once and for all if it needs a video dongle (or do you prefer 
> > the term... video loopback connector)

I've never heard these called "video dongles", and while they don't
come in the package with the 6100 DOS board, the manual says it's
needed, shows its picture, and says it comes with the computer in
which you're trying to install the board.

Complete package, appears not to have ever been installed, the red
Apple seal is still intact on the diskette pack (but was easily pried
open by yours truly while checking).

I think I even have a 6100 for it to go in, but dunno what I'll
ever do with the mess...

-dq

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri Mar 15 07:13:15 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <20020315075431.9039.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>; from erd_6502@yahoo.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 11:54:31PM -0800
References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066499@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> <20020315075431.9039.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315141315.A30474@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 11:54:31PM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> Three CPUs on the BI bus?  Does that work?  
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-smp/2001/05/30/0000.html
-----
Subject: VAX now runs multicpu!
To: None 
From: Anders Magnusson 
List: tech-smp
Date: 05/30/2001 18:16:11 

I just got a VAX 8350 with 3 CPUs to use all three processors.
I have tested it a little, and it seems to work quite fine :-)
It shouldn't be too hard to make it running on some funnier
machines, like the 8800 and the 6000 series.

The VAX 8350 system is probably the slowest multiprocessor system
that NetBSD will ever support; each CPU does about 2VUPS (~2MIPS) :-)

-- Ragge
-----
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 07:23:34 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Orange donation
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A774@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


> Yesterday we visited Computer Solutions in Orange, NJ and were given a 
> lovely HP3000 Series 70.  It's a large, but very lovely beastie and so 
> far, at least, remarkably tractable.  Also in the load were boxes of 
> paper tape, tape reader , full 3000 docs and an HP2108.  They also gave 
> us an Apollo 400 system, server and 6 workstations.  Very nice people, 
> and aa lovely donation.

Without a doubt... say, was this from inventory (stuff they
sell), or something they once-uon-a-time used?

-dq

From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 07:23:34 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: <200203151914.TAA04843@citadel.metropolis.local>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Stan Barr wrote:

> Great stuff!  It inspired me to dig my old thing out and plug it in.

Hey!  There are youngsters and virgins reading this list!

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From at258 at osfn.org  Fri Mar 15 07:38:32 2002
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Orange donation
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A774@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 

They are an HP dealer and it came from inventory.  They have stacks of 
HP1000's.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> 
> > Yesterday we visited Computer Solutions in Orange, NJ and were given a 
> > lovely HP3000 Series 70.  It's a large, but very lovely beastie and so 
> > far, at least, remarkably tractable.  Also in the load were boxes of 
> > paper tape, tape reader , full 3000 docs and an HP2108.  They also gave 
> > us an Apollo 400 system, server and 6 workstations.  Very nice people, 
> > and aa lovely donation.
> 
> Without a doubt... say, was this from inventory (stuff they
> sell), or something they once-uon-a-time used?
> 
> -dq
> 

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island 

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid


From msell at ontimesupport.com  Fri Mar 15 08:12:57 2002
From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <004601c1cbf3$8ad39ca0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315081014.033865d0@127.0.0.1>


Another alternative:

Eudora    http://www.eudora.com/

I use Eudora for mail and Opera for my browser and I'm happy as a clam.

(Can a clam be happy?)



         - Matt




At 11:32 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
> >
> > > > Everyone who uses Outhouse Express should immediately go to the Pegasus
> > > > website and download a copy of Pegasus which is FREEWARE and about 1000
> > > > times better than that horrid piece of shit that Microscoff passes 
> off as
> > > > software.
> > > >


Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066

Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi


"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...


From allain at panix.com  Fri Mar 15 08:23:27 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Orange donation
References: 
Message-ID: <00d901c1cc2c$f9ca5a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

>> say, was this from inventory (stuff they
>> sell), or something they once-uon-a-time used?

> They are an HP dealer and it came from inventory.  
> They have stacks of HP1000's.

I checked them out since they're close enough to where I live.

http://www.internetcsi.com/dino.htm :
 "Fix my HP dinosaur! 

  Being in business for well over three decades, we've 
  accumulated a lot of stuff. It's the kind of stuff needed
  to keep the old HP 1000 and HP 3000 series ...

  Why would someone continue to run these old 
  dinosaurs? ..."


pretty classy site

John A.


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 08:37:15 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: [Maybe OT] A/UX installation
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A780@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > cdrecord -speed 8 -dev 0,6,0 -eject -v AUX_3.0.1_Install.toast_image
> 
> I don't know if this works or not. I don't know if the image is "real ISO"
> (I used Toast, so I couldn't say).
> 
> > When I try to boot up on a IIci, the floppy works ok, and it starts to
> > search for the CD in the CD drive.  The cd drive is a toshiba 5401B, I
> > pulled from an alpha.  It never finds a valid disk.  So, to try to
> > figure out what was wrong, I used BasiliskII (a mac-on-unix emulation)
> > and tried to mount the CD image as a disk under system 7.6...and it
> > wanted to format it.  Should the CD be mountable?
> 
> No, it shouldn't be. Toast complained about it too, but it worked fine
> for installation. The boot disk is needed to mount it.

I have lots of trouble with older 68k Macs that were used
by clueless lusers... in particular, here at my current
orkplace, our #1 Mac advocate didn't realize you have to
power off the system and SCSI devices when attaching them/
removing hem from the chain. I'm not sure what goes bad after
five years of connecting/dosconnecting with the power on
(the terminator resistors shouldn't be affected, should they)?

But I run into this a lot; I have little luck with CDs
on Macs, and more trouble with outboard drives in general
than I'd care to say...

-dq

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 15 08:40:43 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9207EB.7080301@dragonsweb.org>

Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, minespower steel wrote:
> 
> 
>>VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS ATTENTION STRICTLY FOR YOU ONLY
>>
>>FROM THE DESK OF
>>ALHAJI USMAN YERIMA.
>>IKOYI, LAGOS.
>>PHONE;234-803-3088-100
>>BUSINESS ATTENTION.
>>URGENT BUSINESS DEAL
>>
> 
> If the number of these Nigerian scam offers I get is any indication, we're
> now on a mailing list for these freaks and are doomed to receive at least
> 2-3 of these a week.
> 
> Now it is really time to clamp down on non-subscriber posts.  I mean for
> real.  This is really getting annoying.
> 
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org
> 
>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
> 
> 
> 

Maybe you would find it addresses your annoyance more satisfactorily to 
go to your nearest friendly local ambitious DA keen to to be seen as 
tough on Internet fraud, and offer him or her this here low-hanging 
fruit. Call in the FTC, FDIC, your bank manager, etc. and set up a 
sting. Whatever. Then, when you find out who it is, and where they are, 
let me know and I'll gladly go beat the living crap out of them.

However, annoying as spam may be, I don't see how that justifies turning 
the list into a ghetto. Restricting access because it might be abused is 
throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It punishes the innocent as 
well as the guilty. That's just wrong, whatever you think about spam. 
There's no valid reason for this list to be restricted this way.

It's also damaging. The people we want to reach are precisely those who 
will frankly just not bother to offer old gear to be rescued if they 
have to go to the trouble of subscribing.

Personally, I will unsubscribe if this happens.

Jay, are you using DCC? Vixie himself is endorsing it. It potentially 
suffers the same objection, but it can be targeted with a lot more 
accuracy and precision, at least in principle. If you need a checksum 
source, I've got quite a nice collection here, too.

jbdigriz


From allain at panix.com  Fri Mar 15 09:17:56 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
References: 
Message-ID: <01aa01c1cc34$96981700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

tony said:
> If you then solder the mating part of the connector to stripboard 
> with a track cut between the 2 rows of pins then each pin will be
> on it's own strip.

This isn't bad, except for that the signals are now one set of
1,3,5,7...  and one set of 2,4,6,8...   If I want to keep the
contiguous signals together then I have to jumper just about 
everything.  I want a device that I can solder a 2-wide DIL to
that has a single row of 1,2,3,4,5...  SingleInLine 0.10" going 
out, where the signals stay together.  Call it a PC board-lette.

> What are you trying to do, and what construction 
> method (custom etched PCB, wirewrap, stripboard)
> are you using?

Nothing special.  Although I have an OK Speed-Wrap
here that may have to become more than a just a 
conversation piece.   Up to now it's been discrete
soldering on simple lattice line boards.  stripboard?
Again, to set up 30 lines inorder, its 29 jumpers. Yuk.

John A.


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Mar 15 09:18:22 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
Message-ID: <3C921ECE.4569.2F2987E9@localhost>

Just in case someone on the list may help him:

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	hans.franke@mch20.sbs.de
Subject:        	IBM 1401
Date sent:      	Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:45:00 -0800
From:           	Van Snyder 


Hans:

I won't be able to travel to the Vintage Computer Festival Europa.

Does your organization have a mailing list?  I'm looking for IBM 1401
software, manuals, service drawings, information, ....

If you have a mailing list, can you forward this message?

I'm involved with a historical preservation project (that has nothing to
do with my employer). I'm hoping to find Autocoder, Cobol, Fortran, RPG,
Sort 6/7, IOCS, ..., manuals, user-developed applications, the engineering
drawings that CE's used for field maintenance, or any other IBM 1401
memorabilia (including equipment!).

Do you have any of this stuff, or know anybody who might?

Thanks in advance,
Van Snyder
vsnyder@math.jpl.nasa.gov

------- End of forwarded message -------

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 15 09:49:28 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: <200203150546.g2F5kpc04786@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <3C921808.7192D7BA@internet1.net>

Yes, your right, it won't help his feedback rating.  If it did, I guess
both id's were the same guy :-)

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Eric Dittman wrote:
> I noticed that as well, but since there's a limit of one
> feedback per user, that can't be him jacking up his feedback
> rating.
> --
> Eric Dittman
> dittman@dittman.net
> Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 09:52:21 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: <3C921ECE.4569.2F2987E9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020315155221.33070.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hans Franke  wrote:
> Just in case someone on the list may help him:

I'll write him directly, but I wanted to mention a $0.75 thrift-store
purchase - a correspondence course in computer programming, complete
with sample punch cards, focusing on the 1401 as the target processor.

I'm sure it was from an estate .  Got a couple of OS/360 books for
$0.50 the same day.  Never saw anything good at that thrift store
again and now it's closed (a real shame... it was 2 blocks from
my house; I used to have two thrifts within walking distance, and
they are both gone now).

-ethan

> ------- Forwarded message follows -------
> To:             	hans.franke@mch20.sbs.de
> Subject:        	IBM 1401
> Date sent:      	Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:45:00 -0800
> From:           	Van Snyder 
> 
> I'm looking for IBM 1401 software, manuals, service drawings,
> information, ....



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Mar 15 09:53:47 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Atari PC3000
In-Reply-To: <001301c165bc$1c794090$6fb1ff0a@cvendel>
Message-ID: <3C92271B.3133.2F49F57D@localhost>

> > I saw one of these yesterday.  It looks like a monitor with floppy
> > drive in the bottom, at the back was a plug for the power and another
> > labelled video.  I could not see anyplace for a keyboard to be
> > attached.

> > Does anyone know anything about this machine?

> The Atari PS3000 was an Atari SC1224 Color RGB monitor and an Atari SF354
> disk drive combined for use with any Atari ST computer system.

Does anyone have a spare power supply for the quite weired
PS3000 ? I happened to find one two weeks ago.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Fri Mar 15 09:58:01 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: VCF on MediaTelevision
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B1E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: M H Stein [mailto:mhstein@canada.com]

> Freedom Fighters? Revolutionaries? Wow! And I thought we
> were just weirdos & nerds...

I think the politically correct term is "futurist" ;)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 15 09:59:21 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
References: 
Message-ID: <3C921A59.50FE5485@internet1.net>

Russ,

If you've got lots, then I may want several, but well see :-)

I have a newer cd-rw drive that I want to install into an external
case.  The problem is that the case is an old one and uses centronics 50
connectors.  I bought a very nice Sun 68 to 50 pin scsi cable, not
realizing that it used the newer high density 50 pin connector.  I'd
like to replace the cable in the scsi case with one that has the newer
high density 50 pin connectors.  It doesn't need to be very long, maybe
5 or 6 inches, needs the plates to make it fit into the larger wholes,
and have the second connector for a terminator.

BTW, that Microchannel Raid card I bought from you..... just went to
London :-)  I traded it with a few other cards for some RS/6000 memory,
keyboard, NIC, and transceivers.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Russ Blakeman wrote:
> 
> Chad what kind of cable (SCSI) - I have a ton of them, especially PS/2
> 68MC - and I'm just getting started with spring cleaning and excess selling.

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:09:05 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: VAXBI fun continues - seeking DEBNT installation docs
In-Reply-To: <20020315141315.A30474@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: <20020315160905.37747.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jochen Kunz  wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 11:54:31PM -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
> > Three CPUs on the BI bus?  Does that work?  
> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-smp/2001/05/30/0000.html
 
> ...The VAX 8350 system is probably the slowest multiprocessor system
> that NetBSD will ever support; each CPU does about 2VUPS (~2MIPS) :-)

That's rather generous, isn't it?  The KA820 is, IIRC, virtually the
same speed as the uVAX-II (0.95 VUPS).  I didn't think the KA825 was
twice as fast.  I was thinking 35%-50% faster at best.

Ah well... I'd be happy with *one* KA825, let alone two.  I doubt I'd
ever need three.  I could always test my multiprocessor mods to the
COMBOARD-BI driver (which were only tested in practice by our beta
customers, since we never had a multiprocessor VAX during development).

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 10:09:41 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Need Best Z-80 Disassembler
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A785@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

Well, 

The subject says it all... I have a ROM (a 2764
I think, it came to 8K bytes) I need to render
into the most readable source code possible.

It is Z-80 executable, and contains ASCII strings
that have their high-order bits set (yes, PR1ME).

I have a few disassembler stored on some archive
somewhere. But on the chance that a lister might 
know of a more modern Z-80 disassembler than what
I'm likely to have, I thought I'd post a query.

This need comes after having acquired and replaced 
every single board in my Prime, only to still have
it be non-operational.

Thanks in advance,
-doug quebbeman

From dittman at dittman.net  Fri Mar 15 10:20:00 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C921808.7192D7BA@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 15, 2002 10:49:28 AM
Message-ID: <200203151620.g2FGK0J07222@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Yes, your right, it won't help his feedback rating.  If it did, I guess
> both id's were the same guy :-)
>
> > I noticed that as well, but since there's a limit of one
> > feedback per user, that can't be him jacking up his feedback
> > rating.

Back in the early days anyone could leave feedback, which lead
unscrupulous individuals to create lots of accounts just to
add feedback.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 10:20:08 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: NEWS: Old Atari games play on Sony Ericsson phones
In-Reply-To: <20020314220535.GV9626@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <20020315162008.61106.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Bill Bradford  wrote:
> No, ZDnet.com.com *is* zdnet:
>    Domain Name: COM.COM
> 
> They just like to show off the fact that they own "com.com" lately.

dotcom-dotcom... is that like "pizza-pizza"?  Or is it more like the
old NYC joke (paraphrased) "the internet fad so nice, they named it
twice"?

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jhfine at idirect.com  Fri Mar 15 10:26:02 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL
References:  <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <3C90CB9D.9D208356@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3C92209A.73937E78@idirect.com>

>Marvin Johnston wrote:

> I've been using Netscape mail for years with no problems! The only
> downside is that for some unknown reason, the database format they use
> doesn't reclaim the space when messages are moved out of a folder. After
> a while, I have a 50 Mb Inbox with nothing in it. The solution is to
> delete it and the index file, preferably when empty :), and the system
> will put it back. Same thing with other folders except you need to
> recreate the deleted file manually.

Jerome Fine replies:

I am currently using Netscape V4.03 and very shortly will be shifting
to V4.78 - although I have heard that V4.75 is recommended.

In all of these versions, you can set the empty space factor to
compress the file automatically via the:
"EDIT/Preferences/Advanced/Disk Space"
option settings.  In addition, in the later versions, the pull down menu
from "FILE" also allows you to compact all files.

However, I do intend to use your solution - which I did find myself
as well - to transfer all of my Netscape files to a "newer" system.
I will start with the default set of files that are empty.  Then delete
them ALL and copy the files from the "older" system into the
"MAIL" directory.

I have found that the same is not allowed for newsgroups - in this
case, I will need to "subscribe" again on the "newer" system.

> I don't care for HTML in messages, and set it to use plain text. I don't
> know the default character set but mine is set to Western (ISO-8859-1).

Likewise.  However, one very convenient feature of Netscape is that
all "plain text" URLs are automatically converted to a "Link" by
Netscape - so all of those URLs that appear in messages can be
found just by clicking the mouse on that URL - it does not need
to be typed into the system at that point.  I also have an e-mail
to myself that I keep in the Drafts file which contains a list of
URLs that I am interested in.  I find it much more convenient than
using "Bookmarks" and much more flexible for my use.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine


From jhfine at idirect.com  Fri Mar 15 10:26:30 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
			 <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <3C90A025.DF128A57@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <3C9220B6.B2312DDB@idirect.com>

>Andreas Freiherr wrote:

> I became a happy Netscape user long before it had anything to do with
> AOL (don't remember if it was V2.x or V3.x), and before I switch to M$,
> they must either brainwash or force me, or they must learn how to write
> programs (not just GUIs!).

Jerome Fine replies:

I started with Netscape V4.03 (what I am using right now) about
4 years ago.  It is a bit outdated, but has a few features.

> What adjustment is it that you are looking for in Netscape? - Maybe I
> can give you a hint? Selecting either HTML or plain text as the mail
> format is really easy, and if you try to forward HTML-formatted mail to
> recipients who prefer text-only, you can even _opt_ to be asked before
> sending. Is that "unconfigurable"? ;-)

When I upgrade to a newer system (hopefully within a week or two),
I will be using Netscape V4.78 - how do you turn off automatic
advertising downloads?  When I bring up Netscape Mail for the first
time during any session, before I can click on a given e-mail in the
InBox, the adds start all by themselves - can that be configured as
well - to be OFF?

Also, I have many old e-mails saved and posts from news groups.
Can those be easily saved and moved to my "newer" system?
Right now, when I move to the newer system and upgrade to
V4.78, I have tested what needs to be done.  I just have to
move all the files in the MAIL directory over to the MAIL
directory in the new system - trivial - I hope!!!!


From rhb57 at vol.com  Fri Mar 15 10:33:44 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C921808.7192D7BA@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

He buys a lot from DotComLiquidators as they're right in Columbus, not too
far from Dayton so I guess he drives there. All indications are that it's
the same guy too, just another of his hidden seller accounts.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:49 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> Yes, your right, it won't help his feedback rating.  If it did, I guess
=> both id's were the same guy :-)
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Eric Dittman wrote:
=> > I noticed that as well, but since there's a limit of one
=> > feedback per user, that can't be him jacking up his feedback
=> > rating.
=> > --
=> > Eric Dittman
=> > dittman@dittman.net
=> > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
=>
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From rhb57 at vol.com  Fri Mar 15 10:38:39 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <3C921A59.50FE5485@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

The ones I have most of are the 68MC that the microchannel RS/6000 and PS/2
controllers have on one side and then I have both the standard 50 and HD50
types on the device ends. Not sure if your Sun type is the 68MC (centronics
STYLE) or the regular HD68 (pins)

Get with me direct on this. I still have a few of the Seagate 68 pin 9.1 gb
FH drives and a couple of the 50 pin style to sell off too besides dozens of
odd things in my way (I've slacked way off on PS/2 stuff lately)


=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:59 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=>
=>
=> Russ,
=>
=> If you've got lots, then I may want several, but well see :-)
=>
=> I have a newer cd-rw drive that I want to install into an external
=> case.  The problem is that the case is an old one and uses centronics 50
=> connectors.  I bought a very nice Sun 68 to 50 pin scsi cable, not
=> realizing that it used the newer high density 50 pin connector.  I'd
=> like to replace the cable in the scsi case with one that has the newer
=> high density 50 pin connectors.  It doesn't need to be very long, maybe
=> 5 or 6 inches, needs the plates to make it fit into the larger wholes,
=> and have the second connector for a terminator.
=>
=> BTW, that Microchannel Raid card I bought from you..... just went to
=> London :-)  I traded it with a few other cards for some RS/6000 memory,
=> keyboard, NIC, and transceivers.
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Russ Blakeman wrote:
=> >
=> > Chad what kind of cable (SCSI) - I have a ton of them, especially PS/2
=> > 68MC - and I'm just getting started with spring cleaning and
=> excess selling.
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From djenner at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 11:11:40 2002
From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
				 <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <3C90A025.DF128A57@Vishay.com> <3C9220B6.B2312DDB@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3C922B4C.3FB12A75@earthlink.net>

Jerome Fine wrote:
> 
> When I upgrade to a newer system (hopefully within a week or two),
> I will be using Netscape V4.78 - how do you turn off automatic
> advertising downloads?  When I bring up Netscape Mail for the first
> time during any session, before I can click on a given e-mail in the
> InBox, the adds start all by themselves - can that be configured as
> well - to be OFF?

There is a setting (line of java code) in the file "prefs.js" that
allows you to turn this off (i.e., not display a Netscape-defined
HTML page) in your message pane when you start.  Unfortunately, how
to do this apparently is no longer documented in the Release Notes
for 4.7x.  I THINK you do this by inserting the line

user_pref("mailnews.start_page.enabled", false);

in the prefs.js file.  It's been a long time since I did it.

> 
> Also, I have many old e-mails saved and posts from news groups.
> Can those be easily saved and moved to my "newer" system?
> Right now, when I move to the newer system and upgrade to
> V4.78, I have tested what needs to be done.  I just have to
> move all the files in the MAIL directory over to the MAIL
> directory in the new system - trivial - I hope!!!!

It's possible to move and/or merge both mail and news from one
installation to another.  I've done it several times.

-- 
David C. Jenner
djenner@earthlink.net

From tosteve at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 11:42:47 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020315174247.33074.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Chris,
Yes, this is the book that you want!
Where shall I send it?
Steve.

--- Chris  wrote:
> >14. Apple IIc Scribe User's Manual
> 
> Is this the manual for the thermal AppleScribe
> printer? (sounds like it) 
> If it is, can you toss it in the mail for me?
> Priority is fine with me 
> (so you can get a free envelope or box, or
> whatever... it isn't a fragile 
> item so a simple priority mail pouch will work
> well).
> 
> I can mail you cash, or stamps, or send paypal, or
> whatever you want to 
> cover postage.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 15 12:07:16 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References: 
Message-ID: <3C923854.7010702@dragonsweb.org>

Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:
> 
> 
>>Maybe you would find it addresses your annoyance more satisfactorily to
>>go to your nearest friendly local ambitious DA keen to to be seen as
>>tough on Internet fraud, and offer him or her this here low-hanging
>>fruit. Call in the FTC, FDIC, your bank manager, etc. and set up a
>>sting. Whatever. Then, when you find out who it is, and where they are,
>>let me know and I'll gladly go beat the living crap out of them.
>>
> 
> Look, I couldn't care less who falls for this scam. The way I see it, it
> will just put money in the hands of people smarter than the ones losing
> it, and that's a net positive effect.

I wouldn't exactly call the sender a rocket scientist, what with begging 
for a easy felony conviction, but you're right, that's irrelevant.

> 
> I just don't want this shit to litter my ClassicCmp inbox.  Regular spam
> was bad enough, this is simply horrid.
> 

You know, if it was for real, I really would be upset by it. The nerve 
of some grafting bureaucrat or despotic politician who probably sucked 
the life's blood out of their fellow countrymen whining about being 
deprived of their ill-gotten booty. I'd direct them to the nearest 
firing squad, not help them get their millions back.

> 
>>However, annoying as spam may be, I don't see how that justifies turning
>>the list into a ghetto. Restricting access because it might be abused is
>>throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It punishes the innocent as
>>well as the guilty. That's just wrong, whatever you think about spam.
>>There's no valid reason for this list to be restricted this way.
>>
> 
> HELL-FUCKING-O!??  Whoever said we would be restricting access!?  Nothing
> personal, James, but you and everyone else who keeps bringing this
> non-issue up are idiots!  Anyone who wants to post can SUBSCRIBE!  That's
> why it's called a MAILING LIST!  You SUBSCRIBE to a MAILING LIST so that
> you can participate!
> 
> I don't subscribe to a mailing list so that I can be bombarded with SPAM
> from it!  FUCK!!!!!!!
> 

I'm just telling you like it is. It's called outreach. There is gear in 
the hands of people who, say, come across the archives from links, who 
will have no interest whatsoever in subscribing, and we need to keep it 
as easy as possible for them to post, or stuff will get junked that 
shouldn't.

> 
>>It's also damaging. The people we want to reach are precisely those who
>>will frankly just not bother to offer old gear to be rescued if they
>>have to go to the trouble of subscribing.
>>
> 
> SCREW THEM THEN!  I DON'T WANT THEIR SHIT!
> 

I don't think you really mean that. I think you mean you want to stop 
spam on the list. Fine. Do that. Careful with the collateral damage is 
all I'm saying.

> 
>>Personally, I will unsubscribe if this happens.
>>
> 
> BYE!
> 

Not going anywhere anytime soon that I know of. I just meant that the 
list would no longer be worthwhile for me in that case, too.

jbdigriz






From jpl15 at panix.com  Fri Mar 15 12:22:53 2002
From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd)
Message-ID: 



  Of possible interest -


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:28:44 -0600
From: Paul Kasley 
Reply-To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
To: greenkeys@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF

John F. Auwaerter,76,
Pioneer who helped create computer language

by Krystyna Slivinski
Special to the Tribune

John F. Auwaerter, 76, of Park Ridge, was a pioneer in the
telecommunications industry who was instrumental in the development of
the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, or the ASCII
computer language.

The code was the first 8-bit standard code that allowed characters, such
as those found on a keyboard, to be represented by the same codes on
many different kinds of computers.

"That was a major change in standardization for the telecommunications
industry," said Sylvan Silberg, a fellow former research engineer at
Teletype Corp. The code was developed in the 1960s through Mr.
Auwaerter's involvement an Institute of Electrical Engineers committee,
Silberg said.

"He traveled all over the world defining what this code would represent.
This is the code that is still used in PCs today," Silberg said.

Mr. Auwaerter died of cancer Saturday, Feb. 23, in Fountain Hill, Ariz.

Born in Chicago, Mr. Auwaerter served two years in the Navy as an ensign
stationed in the Pacific in World War II. He was a graduate of
Northwestern University in Evanston, where he received a bachelor's
degree in electrical engineering in the late 1950s. After working as an
engineer at General Electric in Baltimore, Mr. Auwaerter joined Teletype
Corp. in Chicago.

At the same time, he attended DePaul University and got a law degree in
the late 1950s. Despite the law degree, Mr. Auwaerter's career remained
focused on telecommunications.

During the late 1950s, he was responsible for developing a nationwide
network that provided up-to-date weather reports every 15 minutes, which
teletypes supplied to the Federal Aviation Administration.

"He knew how to get the most out of people and make them love it,"
Silberg said.

His other achievements included the creation of a secure high-speed
communication network for the federal government in the 1960s. He
retired from Teletype in the early 1980s as vice president of sales.

"He was quite dynamic and brilliant," said his daughter, Mary Loftus.
"He was in charge in whatever he got involved in."

Other survivors include two grandchildren.

A memorial service will begin at 11a.m. Friday in St. Paul if the Cross
Catholic Church, 320 S. Washington Ave., Park Ridge.

--Chicago Tribune, March 14, 2002, Thursday



(verbatim from Trib)
-----------------------------------------------------
Paul Kasley W9TS
Fermi National Accelerator Lab, Batavia, IL
-----------------------------------------------------
If you push hard enough, it will fall over.

_______________________________________________
GreenKeys mailing list
GreenKeys@mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys


From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Fri Mar 15 12:34:11 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
References: 
 <004a01c1cb27$f53c0900$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
 <3C90A025.DF128A57@Vishay.com> <3C9220B6.B2312DDB@idirect.com>
 <3C922B4C.3FB12A75@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C923EA3.DDA977A8@Vishay.com>


"David C. Jenner" wrote:
> 
> Jerome Fine wrote:
> >
> > When I upgrade to a newer system (hopefully within a week or two),
> > I will be using Netscape V4.78 - how do you turn off automatic
> > advertising downloads?  When I bring up Netscape Mail for the first
> > time during any session, before I can click on a given e-mail in the
> > InBox, the adds start all by themselves - can that be configured as
> > well - to be OFF?
> 
> There is a setting (line of java code) in the file "prefs.js" that
> allows you to turn this off (i.e., not display a Netscape-defined
> HTML page) in your message pane when you start.  Unfortunately, how
> to do this apparently is no longer documented in the Release Notes
> for 4.7x.  I THINK you do this by inserting the line
> 
> user_pref("mailnews.start_page.enabled", false);
> 
> in the prefs.js file.  It's been a long time since I did it.

That's what my artificial brain (my Psion 3mx) remembers. You either do
the above or (if you're desperate ;-)

user_pref("mailnews.start_page.enabled", true);
user_pref("mailnews.start_page.url", "http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm");

Remember to close all Netscape windows and make sure the Netscape
process has terminated (can take up to about 30 seconds, especially if
Java applets are running - I use to check using Task Manager) before
editing the file.

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Fri Mar 15 12:36:08 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: Need Best Z-80 Disassembler
In-Reply-To: Douglas Quebbeman 
        "Need Best Z-80 Disassembler" (Mar 15, 11:09)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A785@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <10203151836.ZM7897@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 15, 11:09, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> I have a few disassembler stored on some archive
> somewhere. But on the chance that a lister might
> know of a more modern Z-80 disassembler than what
> I'm likely to have, I thought I'd post a query.

I use dz80, which you can find at http://www.inkland.org/dz80/index.htm
I see the current version is 2.0 (March 2002), but I use 1.31 (June 1999).
 Actually, I made a few small changes to make the unix version work more
like other unix software (mostly to do with option letters and arguments,
which were strange and DOS-like in the original, and to allow use of hex
and octal in addresses and output, plus a couple of bugfixes for long
jumps).

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 12:39:48 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A789@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> I'm just telling you like it is. It's called outreach. There is gear in 
> the hands of people who, say, come across the archives from links, who 
> will have no interest whatsoever in subscribing, and we need to keep it 
> as easy as possible for them to post, or stuff will get junked that 
> shouldn't.

Ancestry.com does this very effectively.

They have a message archive, but then you nring up a message,
you don't see the RFC822 e-mail address, just the name of the 
poster.

Like with E-Bay, if you want the actual address, you click a 
link that takes you to a different page. Here is where the
difference begins, and why Ancesrty's way is much cooler
than E-Bay's (but then _cooler than E-Bay_ isn't hard to do).

Anyway, you get a page where the host system looks up the
actual e-mail address, then constructs a graphic image
ON THE FLY that is a "picture" of the poster's e-mail
address.

Gonna take a hell of a bot to break through that...

Regards,
-doug q

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 12:41:46 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A78A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> John F. Auwaerter, 76, of Park Ridge, was a pioneer in the
> telecommunications industry who was instrumental in the development of
> the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, or the ASCII
> computer language.

Shades of Al Gore, this "I was first" disease knows no boundaries...

Gonna go Google this, but I was pretty sure Ralph Bemer invented
ASCII ....

-dq

From jpl15 at panix.com  Fri Mar 15 12:50:56 2002
From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <200203150357.g2F3vnO02333@mail2.bigmailbox.com>
Message-ID: 




  What's kinda amusing about this is that various gullible/clueless folks
have actually sent substantial money to these clowns like these - of
course this is a fairly old and well-known scam that comes from several
African (and other) sources in the region.

  Financial Darwinism in action!


  Cheers

John


Death to SPAM, but don't restrict the List. My $.02


From vsnyder at math.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Mar 15 12:58:53 2002
From: vsnyder at math.jpl.nasa.gov (Van Snyder)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: IBM 1401
Message-ID: <200203151858.g2FIwsF13876@math.jpl.nasa.gov>


I'm involved with a historical preservation project (that has nothing to
do with my employer). I'm hoping to find Autocoder, Cobol, Fortran, RPG,
Sort 6/7, IOCS, ..., manuals, user-developed applications, the engineering
drawings that CE's used for field maintenance, or any other IBM 1401
memorabilia (including equipment!).

Do you have any of this stuff, or know anybody who might?

Thanks in advance,
Van Snyder



From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 13:08:06 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A78B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


> Gonna go Google this, but I was pretty sure Ralph Bemer invented
                                              ^^^^^

Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob (second time this year I've done this!)

-dq

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Fri Mar 15 13:14:20 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:25 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:17:08 EST."
             <20020315061847.ENRV28165.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203151914.TAA04843@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:
> > From: Stan Barr 
> 
> > Just curious, but what do you guys *do* with ZX81s?  I've got one rebuilt
> in
> > a large box with loads of i/o ports and a2d converter running
> multi-tasking 
> > Forth, but I've not plugged it in for a while...
> 
> Okay, check out:
> 
> http://home.freiepresse.de/befis/zx96_e.htm
> 
> Then tell me what you *can't* do with a ZX81 ;>)

Great stuff!  It inspired me to dig my old thing out and plug it in.
It powers up OK, but the display won't sync on my colour tv (a known
problem with zx81s...) so I guess I'll have to add a monitor output.

[snip] 

> Sellam once said that the ZX-TEAMers were "fanatical hackers."  How else is
> science advanced, other than fanatical hacking (and dumb luck)?
>

Well, I can do the *dumb* part ;-)
 
> My personal project is WIN-ZX, which will perform many of the tasks Windows
> 3.1 handled for the PC.  Presently it requires a 64KB system with a
> MEFISDOS-based IDE hard drive, but I hope to trim it down to 16KB and
> cassette tape.
> 

The old Forth system in mine (Skywave Forth) did multiple (tiled, text) 
windows back in '83 when most home users had never seen a computer do
more than one thing at a time ;-)  I used to use it as a data logger,
until it was replaced by an old XT...


-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 13:38:53 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A78E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


> > Anyway, you get a page where the host system looks up the
> > actual e-mail address, then constructs a graphic image
> > ON THE FLY that is a "picture" of the poster's e-mail
> > address.
> >
> > Gonna take a hell of a bot to break through that...
> 
> Not really.  OCR algorithms are easily available I'm sure.

Sure, but SPAM is at least partly pervasive due to the low cost
of harvesting addresses. This might bump it into the unprofitable
zone...
 
> Decent system though.

Yeah, and if a bunch of genealogists can come up with it,
I'd be ashamed to be an IT professional if *we* couldn't
do at least as well...

-dq

From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 13:48:42 2002
From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: <200203151858.g2FIwsF13876@math.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315144722.00a073a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

At 10:58 AM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm involved with a historical preservation project (that has nothing to
>do with my employer). I'm hoping to find Autocoder, Cobol, Fortran, RPG,
>Sort 6/7, IOCS, ..., manuals, user-developed applications, the engineering
>drawings that CE's used for field maintenance, or any other IBM 1401
>memorabilia (including equipment!).
>
>Do you have any of this stuff, or know anybody who might?

Sorry but no.

But it does bring back a lot of memories of my first days working for IBM. 
First machine was a 1401 followed shortly by a 7094 mod II and the 7030 
(Stretch). 


From mythtech at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 14:14:16 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>I've never heard these called "video dongles", and while they don't
>come in the package with the 6100 DOS board, the manual says it's
>needed, shows its picture, and says it comes with the computer in
>which you're trying to install the board.

Well.. there are two different video "adaptors" that were being refered 
to in that thread.

One is the HDI-45 to RGB adaptor, that came with all the "AV" powermacs 
that had the AV video port. I think that was limited to the 6100, 7100, 
8100 series (but may have included others). This was needed to connect a 
standard RGB monitor to the HDI-45 AV video connector. Or, Apple prefered 
you bought an AV monitor that plugged directly into the port and provided 
video, audio, ADB, and for some reason I think color calibration (but I 
might be wrong on the last one).


The other "adaptor" or dongle that was being refered to, is the Video 
Loopback connector for the DOS cards. The two DOS card styles I have (the 
"Houdini" from the Q610, and the later PC Compatability cards for the PCI 
Powermacs), required a video cable that plugged from the DB-26 port on 
the DOS card, looped into the RGB port on the Mac, and had an output for 
RGB. It enabled you to use one monitor for both DOS and Mac, or if you 
don't connect the loop to the Mac's RGB, you could use two monitors, one 
for each world. Also, the Q610 version provided a Joystick/Game/Midi 
port. That port was not on the cable for the PCI version, as the 
Game/Midi port was right on the DOS card.


The question that seems to have come up is, does the 6100 DOS card have 
that loopback connector at all? The PCI DOS cards can either use the the 
external loop connector... OR an internal connector for Macs that support 
it (you need the GIMO slot, which many of the PCI Powermacs had). There 
is a possibility the 6100 card does something similar.

But, if the 6100 DOS card needs the cable, is most definitly should have 
come with it. The Q610 came with it, and the PCI cards came with both the 
internal AND external cables as far as I am aware (I have never bought a 
PCI one new... two of mine came installed in a 4400 from Apple, and 
included the external, but not internal cable, and my 3rd came installed 
in a used 7200 with an internal, but not external... but the eBay ads I 
have seen for boxed ones, always say they have both internal and external 
cables, and since you need one or the other cable, and Apple had no way 
of knowing which PCI Powermac you planned to use it with, it would have 
made sense to include both styles)

-chris




From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 15 14:26:47 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References: 
Message-ID: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>

Sellam Ismail wrote:

> 
> They're in some third-world African nation where the government is most
> likely in on the scam.  I doubt their local authorities would do anything
> less than laugh at anyone actually filing a complaint with them.
> 

Or so is purported. Even if so, official collusion will evaporate 
instantaneously if credible evidence of wire fraud is presented by and 
to the right parties. Nobody wants to lose their cushy IMF sinecures. 
Again, it's of little relevance to the spam issue.

(...)

> 
> And I've offered many fine solutions, as have others (the one requiring
> non-subscribers to confirm their posting is the best) but they've all been
> ignored.
> 
> I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I suggest
> we find a new operator.
> 

Heh, you think or one or two spams every couple of weeks is bad, you 
should see some of the other lists I'm on. Yahoo groups even provide 
their own spam, in HTML yet.

Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing 
his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't 
know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into it.

jbdigriz


From Mzthompson at aol.com  Fri Mar 15 14:47:34 2002
From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
Message-ID: <148.b212e8d.29c3b7e6@aol.com>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002; Loboyko Steve  wrote:

VT320:
> I noted
> that there is a blanking plate on the back for the
> RS-232 port - all you have are the MMJ connectors for
> printer and i/o. I found out these connectors and
> their crimpers are hard to find/pricey, and I didn't
> want to spend a lot of money on these terminals. I
> considered removing the blanking plate, putting in the
> DB-25 connector (no place on my unit's PCB for one -
> odd),

Both the VT320 and VT420 have the blanking plate, both nowhere 
in the manuals for either of them is there any mention of it.
My manuals all say 'North American' version of something similar.
I suspect a common case, and maybe a different circuit board for
those folks on the other side of the pond.  Any confirmation?

LK201:
> I found a few of the keys didn't work right on
> one of them. This is one of those conductive rubber
> dome keyboards (and cheap and junky ones at that).
> They ask quite a bit for them on the 'net
> ("refurbished", usually meaning they blow the dirt out
> with compressed air).

With the LK201, blowing out the dirt is about the extent of it.
The keyboard assembly is such that you can not easily disassemble
it to do a good cleaning.

I had a couple that were really flaky, so I decided to try an
experiment.  I soaked each of them in a solution for a few days,
hoping to dislodge some of the deep down crud.  No success.
I salvaged the keycaps and disposed of the rest.

> I can find better PC keyboards new for around $4.99.

If you mean as in 'Wintel', they are not compatable.

> What to do.

1) I got a stack of untested LK201's.  Stop by (Indiana) and
   pick a couple up.

2) Try an LK401 instead.  Being newer than an LK201, I have only
   ran across one flaky one.  The nice thing about the LK401 is
   that you can tear down, clean, and reassemble one in a reasonable
   amount of time.

> Well, I cut off
> about 3/16" of a cigarette filter (with the paper on)
> and put it in the tube above the torn dome connector.
> I trimmed it a bit after testing the feel of the key,
> and it works rather well, especially for my typing
> style (not particularly speedy and somewhat ham-fisted).

An imaginative fix!  Ok folks, let's empty our ashtrays and
ship our butts off to Steve.  ;^)

Mike

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 15:13:33 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A792@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Well.. there are two different video "adaptors" that were 
> being refered to in that thread.

[..snip..]

> The question that seems to have come up is, does the 6100 DOS card have 
> that loopback connector at all? The PCI DOS cards can either use the the 
> external loop connector... OR an internal connector for Macs that support 
> it (you need the GIMO slot, which many of the PCI Powermacs had). There 
> is a possibility the 6100 card does something similar.

There is a cable with three or four connectors attached to it; I
assume this is what you're referring to. The package is complete,
the packing list is still there, I can bring it in tomorrow and
scan it.
 
Regards,
-dq

From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 15:13:38 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <3C92917C.E6F410B8@idirect.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:

> As is is, the ratio is at least 10:1, so I don't think anyone can be
> suffering that much.  If we all were so concerned, we would just
> hit the DELETE key and stop making comments.  PERIOD.

Or we can restrict posting to subscribers only and be done with it.

Depends on how you look at it, eh?

> I certainly would not want Sellam to take over - at least Jay takes
> the attitude that all changes should be made slowly.

Yeah, I was already talking to someone else privately regarding this.
First of all, I know I'm not the most popular guy on the list.  So what.
Niether are you.  But I'm still cuter.  Second of all, I don't think I'd
want the job.  There are too many god damned whiners on this list.

If by "slow changes" you mean something new happens every other year then
I suppose that's what we have.  Also, I hate the fact that there has to be
a democracy everytime a serious issue comes up that needs addressing.  I
would prefer someone to simply take reasonable action after about a day's
worth of discussion.

Not to knock Jay, at least he keeps the list running, and he deserves
lots of credit.  But I don't think he even reads the list anymore, and is
not in a position to be the operator.

Ah screw it.  Just like every other time an issue has come up, nothing
will happen.  Let the spam come.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 15 15:30:59 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:

> What color is the sky in your world?

Sort of a Puce, except on odd Tuesdays, when it's a lime green...why do
you ask?

> Really. Wow, that's funny, because I read the mail on this list every night.
> I may occasionally go a day or two without it, but that's not very common.
> Moreover, I, (probably like most on the list), routinely skip and delete
> (without reading) posts that don't appear to be about anything that
> interests me, with regards to my own collection or to list issues. Perhaps a
> thread or two has gone by that had a subject line that didn't cause me to
> read it when in fact it contained discussion that I should have watched. I
> must say I am very offended by the suggestion that I only poke my head in
> here once or twice a month and don't know whats going on.

Ok, I'll take your word on it.  My comments stem mostly from times in the
past when I've e-mailed you and you never responded (or it took a while).
I'm not alone.  I can buy that you're so incredibly busy that you don't
have time to respond.  That's reasonable considering your situation.

> As far as a solution to the SPAM issue, I read all the reponses on the list
> for a few weeks till it seemed to die down (maybe it continued under a
> subject heading that didn't catch my eye). For those who think I have not
> pursued the issue, my apologies for not CC'ing you on the many and varied
> private discussions I have been having with several list members on what to
> do about this exact topic (I HOPE you see blistering sarcasm coming through
> here). Mostly, I believe the SPAM issue is much ado about nothing. Many
> people on the list have posted AND sent me private email saying "It's your
> list, you make the rules, do what you want". While that may be true, I have

Ok, this is where I object.  It is NOT your list.  This list was started
by Bill Whitson in March of 1997.  Bill ran it pretty damn well until he
basically dropped off the face of the earth.  For a while, nobody ran it.
Then Derek Peschel took over eventually, until the University of
Washington said they didn't want it on their servers anymore, at which
time it fell into your good graces.

You may HOST the list, and you may MANAGE the operations of the list.  But
it is not your list.  At this point, it is OUR list, "our" being the
subscribers of the list.  I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
how it is run.  I, for one, would like some input on issues.  I (try) to
enjoy the list as do others.  If something bothers me about it (off-topic
posts, spam) I'm going to bitch about it.

> always tried very hard to solicit input from listmembers anyway. Several of
> the loudest complainers failed to realize that the spam was rarely coming
> from this list, they were getting it from other sources most of the time. As

That was true before.  Unfortunately, the list has now been infiltrated
with spammers, which is quite unfortunate.  Something needs to be done
about it NOW because it's becoming worse.

> to having someone moderate the list: I have stated very clearly my somewhat
> strong opposition to putting this list into moderated mode. That goes for ME
> moderating it, or for delegating it to someone else. I also stated that if
> moderating it becomes the only real solution, *I* would do it (yes, I have
> the time, believe it or not). That is why I didn't answer the people who
> offered to moderate the list (because I felt I had already responded to them
> publicly).

Moderation is not the answer.  However, if we are going to moderate, I say
we go 100%.  Kill all off-topic messages (start with this one) as well as
spam.

> As to not answering direct emails about the list? It is true, I do get a lot
> of email every day, and I don't always choose to repond to every one of
> them. You can bet that if someone emails me about list maintenance, it is
> taken care of in a timely fashion. Yes, there have been one or two requests
> for a change in mailing address that I didn't get to quickly. Sometimes it
> is hard to keep track of so much email, no matter how much spare time I have
> these days. However, I think that many of the people who just posted here
> thanking me for the job I do would beg to differ with you on that point.

Thank you for taking the time to manage the list.

> I have listened to the discussion about SPAM, I have been talking to others
> on the list privately about it, and I will announce my intended solution as
> soon as I am damn well ready to commit to something. Yes, I have a proposed
> solution, it does NOT involve moderating the list, and as soon as I am
> satisfied that it is the best route to go, I will post it on the list for
> final discussion in case some people vehemently disagree with it.

Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When will you
be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks ago.  I
think it's time to finally do something.

Soon.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From at258 at osfn.org  Fri Mar 15 15:39:11 2002
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Orange donation
In-Reply-To: <00d901c1cc2c$f9ca5a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: 

Did you check out warehouse.htm?  They do have stuff parked everywhere.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, John Allain wrote:

> >> say, was this from inventory (stuff they
> >> sell), or something they once-uon-a-time used?
> 
> > They are an HP dealer and it came from inventory.  
> > They have stacks of HP1000's.
> 
> I checked them out since they're close enough to where I live.
> 
> http://www.internetcsi.com/dino.htm :
>  "Fix my HP dinosaur! 
> 
>   Being in business for well over three decades, we've 
>   accumulated a lot of stuff. It's the kind of stuff needed
>   to keep the old HP 1000 and HP 3000 series ...
> 
>   Why would someone continue to run these old 
>   dinosaurs? ..."
> 
> 
> pretty classy site
> 
> John A.
> 
> 

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island 

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid


From mythtech at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 15:39:50 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>There is a cable with three or four connectors attached to it; I
>assume this is what you're referring to. The package is complete,
>the packing list is still there, I can bring it in tomorrow and
>scan it.

Yup, that sounds like the right cable for the DOS card.

Ok... how much do you want for the package? :-)

-chris




From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:15 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: OT SPAM ABOOT OT SPAM Re: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020315154735.03dda308@pc>

At 12:54 PM 3/15/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
>Um, James, do you realize how long these scams have been going on for?  If
>you think the lame amount of money the IMF would give Nigeria if they
>cracked down on the scams 

As I recall, this scam accounts for a significant portion
of their GNP.

- John


From philip at awale.qc.ca  Fri Mar 15 15:55:49 2002
From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On 15-Mar-2002 John Lawson wrote:
> John F. Auwaerter, 76, of Park Ridge, was a pioneer in the
> telecommunications industry who was instrumental in the development of
> the American Standard Code for Information Interchange, or the ASCII
> computer language.

ARG!  Why call ASCII an "computer langauge"?  
 
> The code was the first 8-bit standard code that allowed characters, such
> as those found on a keyboard, to be represented by the same codes on
> many different kinds of computers.
Wasn't ASCII orignally 7-bit?

> "That was a major change in standardization for the telecommunications
> industry," said Sylvan Silberg, a fellow former research engineer at
> Teletype Corp. The code was developed in the 1960s through Mr.
> Auwaerter's involvement an Institute of Electrical Engineers committee,
> Silberg said.
> 
> "He traveled all over the world defining what this code would represent.
> This is the code that is still used in PCs today," Silberg said.

Huh?!  All over the world, but didn't seem to stray to a
non-english-speaking country.  ASCII serves very poorly for those of us
who need accents.

-Philip

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 16:00:03 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: HTML in EMAIL
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315081014.033865d0@127.0.0.1>
References: 
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020315081014.033865d0@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: 

>I use Eudora for mail and Opera for my browser and I'm happy as a clam.

	My combo as well.  I've used Eudora on anything that would 
run it for years, including at times on my Amiga running Shapeshifter 
and Mac OS 7.1.  The BETA for OS X works pretty well too.  Opera 
works great...still the occasional glitch on some sites, but pretty 
compatible.  It's also much more stable than Netscape and it doesn't 
get stuck and stall like Netscape does when you abort a page and then 
move on to another.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 16:12:56 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Schematics or repar informations for a HP9845B
In-Reply-To: <3C91C429.5080304@topinform.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020315171256.00864a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   Aren't we all!  I've been looking for that stuff for about five years.
The closest that I came was a 9845 service manual on E-bay but some SOB
sniped it at the last second. I checked with the seller and he said it
wasn't much of a manual and there were no schematics in it and only a few
power supply test points. (the 9815 "service manual" is the same way).

   FWIW Even HP is looking for service info for the 9845. I visted them
about two years ago and found that they were desperate to get a 9845C
working but they knew less about them than I did! (Yes, that's pretty bad!)

   Joe (with five sometimes working 9845s!)


At 10:51 AM 3/15/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm interested in any information/documentation regarding the hardware 
>of a HP9845, e.g. schematics, support and repair informations.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Andreas
>
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:44 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Any information on Genrad 2620?
In-Reply-To: <200203150348.g2F3mSM03986@narnia.int.dittman.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314220819.04dd2a30@enigma>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020315171644.007e2e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Eric,

   I have a Genrad unit that I picked up out of a scrap yard. I thought it
was just an external 8" floppy drive but when I opened it up I found it had
a complete PDP-11/23 system in it along with a hard drive! It even has
RSX-11M installed on it.  It was a controller for some kind of circuit
board test station.  My advice is to buy it if it doesn't cost much. Nice
things come in small packages! 

   Joe

At 09:48 PM 3/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> Is anyone familiar with a Genrad 2620?  There's one at a local surplus
>> warehouse but I can't seem to find anything informative via Google.
>> It's a "Field Service Processor" or something like that, with a fold-down
>> keyboard and a built-in CRT.  I can get pictures if it helps, but I'm
>> hoping that someone familiar with the unit would let me know if it's
>> worth picking up.
>
>The Genrads I've seen were all testers.
>-- 
>Eric Dittman
>dittman@dittman.net
>Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Fri Mar 15 16:24:01 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
In-Reply-To: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:

> Sellam Ismail wrote:

> > I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I suggest
> > we find a new operator.
>
> Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing
> his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't
> know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into it.

  I have to agree with Sellam.  From the looks of last month's thread
concerning ***monitoring***, NOT ***limiting***, posting access, there
seemed to be more favorable responses than negative to some kind of
"gate" for non-subscribed posters.  There was no shortage of volunteers
to implement whatever system we decide on, and/or do the actual
monitoring.

  As far as Jay's performance running the list, I'd like to make two
observations -

  Unrestricted SPAM has been a very live topic for six weeks.  I would
normally expect the List Operator to at least comment on feasibility of
the various proposals, and on the steps involved for the proposed
volunteers.  I didn't see anything at all.

  Today is March 15, 2002.  The latest post available from the online
archives is dated November 30, 2001.  That's a hell of a lag.


	Doc


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 16:25:43 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020315222543.26953.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Chris  wrote:
> Well.. there are two different video "adaptors" that were being refered 
> to in that thread.
> 
> One is the HDI-45 to RGB adaptor, that came with all the "AV" powermacs 
> that had the AV video port. I think that was limited to the 6100, 7100, 
> 8100 series (but may have included others). This was needed to connect a 
> standard RGB monitor to the HDI-45 AV video connector. Or, Apple prefered
> you bought an AV monitor that plugged directly into the port and provided
> video, audio, ADB, and for some reason I think color calibration (but I 
> might be wrong on the last one).

This is the one I've been looking for... I have had this 6100 for over
a year and haven't run across the HDI-45 adapter for less than $15-$20
shipped.  I just bought an Apple 14" AV monitor for $10.  Problem
solved.  If the monitor ever dies, I'll probably cut the cable off and
solder on my own DA15 (and 1/8" stereo jacks, etc.)  Maybe now I can
retire my Quadra 660av or my Quadra 605 to the back room and use my
PB160 for dumping my QuickTake 150 camera...

-ethan





From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 16:29:40 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A78E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <20020315222940.24199.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Quebbeman  wrote:
> 
> > > Anyway, you get a page where the host system looks up the
> > > actual e-mail address, then constructs a graphic image
> > > ON THE FLY that is a "picture" of the poster's e-mail
> > > address.
> > >
> > > Gonna take a hell of a bot to break through that...
> > 
> > Not really.  OCR algorithms are easily available I'm sure.

Have you seen the recent sign-on techniques for a Yahoo! account?
You have to type a password read from a distorted graphic.  It's
different kinds of distortion.  I can see how they might end up
getting slapped for being unfriendly to visually impared persons.
How's a text-to-speech thing going to tell you what's in the box
if it's intentionally made to be difficult to read.

I was thinking about a similar thing for my own webified classiccmp
archive (private, sorted, *culled* selection of articles with a
Perl front-end to display things topically for me)... use Perl and
the GD package to graphically obscure the e-mail addresses to protect
people on the list from spam (the other way would be to truncate the
names and just manually dig through the data for them if I personally
needed to write someone).

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 15 16:31:23 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: OT SPAM ABOOT OT SPAM Re: urgent business/investment deal
References: 
Message-ID: <3C92763B.9020602@dragonsweb.org>

Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote:
> 
> 
>>>They're in some third-world African nation where the government is most
>>>likely in on the scam.  I doubt their local authorities would do anything
>>>less than laugh at anyone actually filing a complaint with them.
>>>
>>Or so is purported. Even if so, official collusion will evaporate
>>instantaneously if credible evidence of wire fraud is presented by and
>>to the right parties. Nobody wants to lose their cushy IMF sinecures.
>>Again, it's of little relevance to the spam issue.
>>
> 
> Um, James, do you realize how long these scams have been going on for?  If
> you think the lame amount of money the IMF would give Nigeria if they
> cracked down on the scams that originate from there even begins to compare
> to the money that is reaped from these scams then you need to snap out of
> the haze you're in.
> 

I've been getting them for years, here, and I'm skeptical of the notion 
they're all coming from Nigeria or Africa. If nothing else, there are 
bound to be copycats here and elsewhere, who might have less difficulty 
pulling it off, though I find it hard to see how they could avoid 
detection for very long, in these days of know-your-customer rules, 
money-laundering laws, Patriot Acts, etc. Especially with the "hold our 
money in your account" variants.

Yeah, ponder that one a while. Kind of odd, dontcha think? All I'm gonna 
say on that.

In any case, I was referring not to the IMF bribing East Lugubria to 
prosecute thieves, but to the prospect of the Minister of Justice there, 
say, losing his job and the swag that he and his government already get 
  , for keeping the rabble from mucking with the oil piplines and such, 
if they don't cooperate.  These guys are replaceable, and they know it. 
Especially if you give any credence to the scams supposedly originating 
from their alleged predecessors.

> 
>>Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing
>>his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't
>>know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into
>>it.
>>
> 
> Jay pokes his head in here once or twice a month and doesn't know what's
> going on.  Most of the time he doesn't even respond to e-mails.
> 

I guess we are about at the "agree to disagree point" here. I think 
we've both made our positions adequately known, at least. So this is my 
last post on the subject.



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 16:32:58 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Nigerian scams (was Re: urgent business/investment deal)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020315223258.54072.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>


--- John Lawson  wrote:
> 
>   What's kinda amusing about this is that various gullible/clueless folks
> have actually sent substantial money to these clowns like these - of
> course this is a fairly old and well-known scam that comes from several
> African (and other) sources in the region.

$5 x 10E+09 USD, as of 1996, and climbing.  Read all about it at...

  http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/

Next topic, please...

-ethan




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dittman at dittman.net  Fri Mar 15 16:35:23 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Any information on Genrad 2620?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020315171644.007e2e60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 15, 2002 05:16:44 PM
Message-ID: <200203152235.g2FMZNR09466@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Eric,

I posted the reply that that all Genrads I've seen were
testers.  I didn't post about having a chance to buy one.

>    I have a Genrad unit that I picked up out of a scrap yard. I thought it
> was just an external 8" floppy drive but when I opened it up I found it had
> a complete PDP-11/23 system in it along with a hard drive! It even has
> RSX-11M installed on it.  It was a controller for some kind of circuit
> board test station.  My advice is to buy it if it doesn't cost much. Nice
> things come in small packages! 

This is the case for a lot of test systems.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 16:40:16 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020315224016.55783.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Russ Blakeman  wrote:
> He buys a lot from DotComLiquidators as they're right in Columbus, not
> too far from Dayton so I guess he drives there

Huh?!?  I've never heard of these guys, but I suspect that maybe I
should.  They aren't in the phone book under that name, and a search
of NSI with whois shows the domain registered out of Colorado...

Organization:
      Concept Factory, LLC.
      Bruce Bacon
      9263 Sagebrush Trail
      Littleton, CO 80124
      US
      Phone: (303) 706-9757
      Email: Bruce@cyberbacons.com

   Registrar Name....: Register.com
   Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
   Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com

   Domain Name: DOTCOMLIQUIDATORS.COM

      Created on..............: Wed, Apr 12, 2000
      Expires on..............: Fri, Apr 12, 2002
      Record last updated on..: Sat, Jan 05, 2002

   Administrative Contact:
      Concept Factory, LLC.
      Bruce Bacon
      9263 Sagebrush Trail
      Littleton, CO 80124
      US
      Phone: (303) 706-9757
      Email: Bruce@cyberbacons.com

   Technical Contact:
      Register.Com
      Domain Registrar
      575 8th Avenue
      New York, NY 10018
      US
      Phone: 212-798-9200
      Fax..: 212-629-9305
      Email: domain-registrar@register.com

   Zone Contact:
      Register.Com
      Domain Registrar
      575 8th Avenue
      New York, NY 10018
      US
      Phone: 212-798-9200
      Fax..: 212-629-9305
      Email: domain-registrar@register.com

   Domain servers in listed order:

   DNS17.REGISTER.COM                                209.67.50.247     
   DNS18.REGISTER.COM                                209.67.50.248     


Besides dropping them a line at the e-mail address on their webpage,
anybody know how to locate them?

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 15 16:42:04 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A79A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

>   Today is March 15, 2002.  The latest post available from the online
> archives is dated November 30, 2001.  That's a hell of a lag.

I can't really quite imagine what all must be involved in being
part owner of a company, then having to pull out, and either
hustle to find a job, or start another company... I'd think
you'd want a little safety cushion...

At any rate, I'd have thought that by now, he'd have been 
somewhat settled in... but with the downturn, he might well
be having trouble.

Bear in mind he's providing the hosting as well as being
list owner. Anyone wanting a change of status quo needs
to consider we could easliy lay this one someone else who 
might drop it a month later...

-dq

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 16:45:41 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: iSBX-251 Bubble Memory
In-Reply-To: <20020314232721.2788.qmail@mail.seefried.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020315174541.0087cc10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Hey Ken,

  Is that the one that was just on E-bay?  I was watching it.  That card is
for the Intel iPDS Personal Developement System.  It's like an MDS but it's
a portable computer somewhat like a Osborne.  I'd like to get a copy of the
manual if possible. I'm supposed to be getting an IPDS with one of those
cards in it.

     Joe


At 11:27 PM 3/14/02 GMT, you wrote:
>
>My latest score is an iSBX-251 bubble memory card.  Tres kewl.  The bonus is 
>that it showed up with a manual complete with schematics.  I've got to get a 
>scanner working so I can get it on line, but if anyone has a question, drop 
>me a line. 
>
>Ken 
>


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Mar 15 17:27:20 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
References: 
Message-ID: <3C928358.DD77C613@rain.org>

Doc wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote: 
> > Sellam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > > I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I suggest
> > > we find a new operator.

>   I have to agree with Sellam.  From the looks of last month's thread
> concerning ***monitoring***, NOT ***limiting***, posting access, there
> seemed to be more favorable responses than negative to some kind of
> "gate" for non-subscribed posters.

Then add me to the list of people who are quite satisfied with this list
as-is. There is FAR more followup spam generated from listmembers than
spam from non-listmembers. The solution to is obvious.

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Fri Mar 15 17:27:44 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 philip@awale.qc.ca wrote:
> On 15-Mar-2002 John Lawson wrote:
> > The code was the first 8-bit standard code that allowed characters, such
> > as those found on a keyboard, to be represented by the same codes on
> > many different kinds of computers.
> Wasn't ASCII orignally 7-bit?
Isn't that IS 7-bit?
IBM's "extensions" of another 128 characters are NOT ASCII.

Other than "8-bit", which it isn't, which of THOSE characteristics were
NOT present in EBCDIC, or Hollerith?


> > "He traveled all over the world defining what this code would represent.
> > This is the code that is still used in PCs today," Silberg said.
> Huh?!  All over the world, but didn't seem to stray to a
> non-english-speaking country.  ASCII serves very poorly for those of us
> who need accents.

Who PAID for those junkets?
It sounds like our college administrators who went to China "to recruit
students" FOR A COMMUNITY COLLEGE?!?!

Why "travel all over the world" at all when creating "AMERICAN Standard
Code for Information Interchange"?  If they were creating "ENGLISH
LANGUAGE Standard Code for Information Interchange", then THAT would call
for travelling all over certain appropriate countries (Does the sun set on
the British empire now?)
If they were creating "WORLD Standard Code for Information Interchange",
or just simply "Standard Code for Information Interchange", THEN it would
call for some serious travelling.
But ASCII does NOT deal with the needs of any other alphabet.


Does Unicode work?


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From mythtech at mac.com  Fri Mar 15 18:03:00 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: 

>> One is the HDI-45 to RGB adaptor, that came with all the "AV" powermacs 
>> that had the AV video port.

>This is the one I've been looking for... I have had this 6100 for over
>a year and haven't run across the HDI-45 adapter for less than $15-$20
>shipped.

There are literally DOZENS of these on eBay... as long as you don't mind 
3rd party ones (if you want a true apple one, you might actually have to 
look a few times over the course of 2 weeks before one shows up... even 
those aren't exactly rare).

But, you are right, almost all of them end up in the $20 range after 
shipping (and many before shipping). Again, it isn't because of demand, 
but rather because 90% of them are 3rd party, all sold by the same 
person, and all with starting bids of $9.99 + $10 shipping and handling. 
Almost all go unbid, but because of that, the few that get listed by 
someone else for lower prices, get driven up by people trying to get a 
better deal (or from the one guy slamming the bids to make his the 
cheapest for all I know).

-chris




From jhfine at idirect.com  Fri Mar 15 18:27:14 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C929162.50C62BFF@idirect.com>

>Tom Leffingwell wrote:

> >On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> > Yes, it is possible.  The real trick is finding a SCSI CD-ROM that will work
> > with your SCSI Adapter!  In my case I'm using a Viking QDT with a DEC RRD-42
> > drive (I think that's the right drive, it's the one that uses standard
> > caddies).
> Yeah, the RRD40 was the one with the special DEC caddies where you never
> had to touch the CD.  I think I still have one somewhere.  RRD42 used the
> standard caddies, and was double speed I believe.  RRD43 was the one where
> the disk snapped into it, and the RRD45 was the 4x speed tray one, and the
> RRD46 was the 12x speed tray one.  I'll have to see what I have.  Its more
> than likely going to be an RRD43 though, but I would think it would work.

Jerome Fine replies:

Can anyone recommend an ordinary CD that will work with
a CQD 220/TM?

Also, while the normal ISO file structure probably will NOT
easily allow (if at all) RT-11 partitions to be written on 65536
block boundaries, for RT-11, that is essential.

Zane, have you solved that problem?  Which operating system
do you use?  Can it also be done under Windows 98?

I understand that it might be possible to use the "dd" from Unix
with a version that has been set up to run under Windows 98.
Has anyone heard of this?  I am running Windows 98 with
a Pentium III 750 and 512 MBytes of memory and a 40 GByte
EIDE hard drive.

Since I use E11 to run RT-11 under Windows 98, it is not
critical to have RT-11 partitions, but it would be very nice.

> > I feel a lot safer being able to restore from CD's rather than old
> > flakey TK50's.  Basically you just burn a disk image of a HD that's
> > been built on that controller to a CD-R.  I've done this for RT-11,
> > RSX-11M, and RSX-11M+.  Of the three RT-11 complains the least about
> > being on CD.  The two RSX's I tried *really* don't like it, but appear
> > to come up enough that I should be able to copy them to a real HD.
> I may give this a shot then.  I think its my best option.

I gave up on a TK50 for backup as soon as I found it took
over an hour to "/VERIFY:ONLY" just one RT-11 partition
under BUP.  Since I use the same tapes on a TK70 (after
being bulk erased) and the TK70 is 3 times as fast in writing
and the tape can hold 4 times the number of MBytes, there
did not seem to be a choice between the TK50 and TK70.
Plus, with a TK70, the "/VERIFY:ONLY" of an RT-11
partition takes the same time as writing it.  Of course, with
EIGHT RT-11 partitions on one tape, it sometimes takes
a long time to find the RT-11 partition.

As for using the CD as backup for PDP-11 files, I strongly
agree.  My goal is to be able to find a CD-ROM drive that
I can put on my CQD 220/TM and then boot RT-11 from
partition zero.  Note that since I almost always boot RT-11
from an ESDI hard drive which is in WRITE  PROTECT
mode (a hardware selection via a jumper), the only problem
I see is being able to read the first 64 blocks of the CD on
partition zero - and of course setting up an RT-11 partition
starting at block zero of the CD.

Has anyone solved these two problems?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine


From jhfine at idirect.com  Fri Mar 15 18:27:32 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A78E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C929174.6D40562F@idirect.com>

>Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> Sure, but SPAM is at least partly pervasive due to the low cost
> of harvesting addresses. This might bump it into the unprofitable
> zone...

I have asked for comments on the following - does anyone care?

(a)  Very soon, I will be changing my ISP mail server and this will
require a change in my e-mail address to:  
This address is already running in parallel with the current one.

(b)  While that address will be active for a reasonable period of
time (initially enough for 99.9% of all replies), when I start to
receive sufficient spam, that e-mail address will be discontinued.

(c)  Anyone who wishes to contact me after that e-mail address is
no longer available (and who does not know the next e-mail
address) will be able to use a semi-permanent address in which
the four characters preceding the 'at' will be replaced by the four
digits of the current year.

(d)  There are over 1,000,000 possible e-mail addresses that
I can have using four random alphanumeric characters (36**4).

If most people used some method like this to defeat spam,
such a small percentage of spam could be delivered that within
a few years, the cost of harvesting an e-mail address might
become too expensive.

Is anyone else willing to give it a try?


From jhfine at idirect.com  Fri Mar 15 18:27:40 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
References:  <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <3C92917C.E6F410B8@idirect.com>

>James B. DiGriz wrote:

> >Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I suggest
> > we find a new operator.
> Heh, you think or one or two spams every couple of weeks is bad, you
> should see some of the other lists I'm on. Yahoo groups even provide
> their own spam, in HTML yet.

Jerome Fine replies:

When the ratio of comments on spam to the actual spam is less than
1:1, then I will start to consider if I should take Sellam's comments
seriously.  As long as the number of comments on spam is even
equal to the number of spam, then it can't be that significant a problem.

As is is, the ratio is at least 10:1, so I don't think anyone can be
suffering that much.  If we all were so concerned, we would just
hit the DELETE key and stop making comments.  PERIOD.

> Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing
> his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't
> know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into it.

I certainly would not want Sellam to take over - at least Jay takes
the attitude that all changes should be made slowly.

Plus, I have yet to see just how many e-mails make it to the
list from off-list sources.  If there ever is any action needed,
I would want that to at least be the first step.  Just add the
four characters [OL] at the start of every message from off
the list.  That will provide some measure of how often it
happens.  It would also determine just how many messages
some one would need to monitor if a counter was kept.
If it is fewer than 10 a week, it would not be much of a job.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 18:58:35 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020315061847.ENRV28165.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 15, 2 01:17:08 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 698 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/a2031173/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 19:00:02 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: WTB: HP-IB CD-Rom
In-Reply-To: <3C91C2D5.1050306@topinform.com> from "Andreas Holz" at Mar 15, 2 10:45:57 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 124 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/8b486cf5/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 19:03:10 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Schematics or repar informations for a HP9845B
In-Reply-To: <3C91C429.5080304@topinform.com> from "Andreas Holz" at Mar 15, 2 10:51:37 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 933 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/8cda7e07/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 19:08:38 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
In-Reply-To: <01aa01c1cc34$96981700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 15, 2 10:17:56 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 736 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/8a8c439b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 19:20:14 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A789@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Mar 15, 2 01:39:48 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 740 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/3c86361c/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 19:25:49 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <148.b212e8d.29c3b7e6@aol.com> from "Mzthompson@aol.com" at Mar 15, 2 03:47:34 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1360 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/23161537/attachment.ksh
From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Fri Mar 15 19:37:06 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)
References: <20020315224016.55783.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012801c1cc8b$bf2555a0$bc469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 05:40 PM
Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)


>
> --- Russ Blakeman  wrote:
> > He buys a lot from DotComLiquidators as they're right in Columbus, not
> > too far from Dayton so I guess he drives there
>
> Huh?!?  I've never heard of these guys, but I suspect that maybe I
> should.  They aren't in the phone book under that name, and a search
> of NSI with whois shows the domain registered out of Colorado...

They're in Hilliard, IIRC.  Never been there, but I took a long hard look at
an old server they had on epay a while back.  They encouraged people to come
by and check out the kit before bidding.  At one time, I thought I knew
which building they were in, but now I'm not so sure-- I drove past one day
(didn't have a chance to stop) and it didn't look like a computer
warehouse/store.

Bob



> -ethan
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Fri Mar 15 20:28:55 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
Message-ID: <007f01c1cc93$93c14420$0ff09a8d@ajp166>

>> LK201:
>> > I found a few of the keys didn't work right on
>> > one of them. This is one of those conductive rubber
>> > dome keyboards (and cheap and junky ones at that).
>
>All the LK201s I've worked on have used membrane switches. But I believe
>there are several versions.


Actually not less than 4 different versions as LK201 and then you
had the 301, 401 and later versions based on it.

>Since the LK201 protocol is fairly easily available, I would have
thought
>it would be possible to use a single-chip microcontroller to link a PC
>keyboard to a LK201 port. I've never tried to write the code, though.


This is doable.  Though most of the LK201s had 8051 chips and you
could program a 8751 and put that in if you like.

Allison


From jwest at classiccmp.org  Fri Mar 15 20:30:02 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
Message-ID: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>

Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who is trying very
hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...

You wrote...
> > > I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I
suggest
> > > we find a new operator.

What color is the sky in your world?

> > Jay runs a pretty tight ship on a high-volume list, and without throwing
> > his weight around, either. I'd say he's doing a fine job, and I don't
> > know anyone else who'd have the required time or patience to put into
it.

Thanks, your sentiments are much appreciated. But shouldn't that last phrase
be "to put up with it" rather than "to put into it"? ;)

As a side comment - It's rather amusing that some people have told me I do
too much, others are now telling me I do too little. Hummm

>   As far as Jay's performance running the list, I'd like to make two
> observations -
>
>   Unrestricted SPAM has been a very live topic for six weeks.  I would
> normally expect the List Operator to at least comment on feasibility of
> the various proposals, and on the steps involved for the proposed
> volunteers.  I didn't see anything at all.

Yes it has been a live topic. If you will recall, *I* am the one that
started the conversation about it with a request for comments. Didn't see
anything? Ummm maybe you should go back and find the two possible solutions
that I posted. I also did at least one followup comment I believe. I'm so
sorry my timetable for making a decision about this hasn't met with your
approval. You said "on the steps involved for the proposed volunteers"? You
OBVIOUSLY have missed some of the things I posted on this topic earlier - I
didn't list steps for the "proposed volunteers" because volunteers are not
in my game plan at this time. More on this below...

and in a separate post....

> Jay pokes his head in here once or twice a month and doesn't know what's
> going on.  Most of the time he doesn't even respond to e-mails.

Really. Wow, that's funny, because I read the mail on this list every night.
I may occasionally go a day or two without it, but that's not very common.
Moreover, I, (probably like most on the list), routinely skip and delete
(without reading) posts that don't appear to be about anything that
interests me, with regards to my own collection or to list issues. Perhaps a
thread or two has gone by that had a subject line that didn't cause me to
read it when in fact it contained discussion that I should have watched. I
must say I am very offended by the suggestion that I only poke my head in
here once or twice a month and don't know whats going on.

For example - take a look at the subject of this thread "Big African
Grifters". Hummm ya think maybe that might be something I wouldn't care to
read? Why did I finally see this convo? Because someone had the forsight to
put "list management" at the front of the subject. I submit that most people
skim the list the same way I do, watching the subject lines for something
interesting. Hummm perhaps I need to turn into a list-nazi and delete posts
which don't contain content appropriate for the heading? (thats sarcasm, not
something I would do)

As far as a solution to the SPAM issue, I read all the reponses on the list
for a few weeks till it seemed to die down (maybe it continued under a
subject heading that didn't catch my eye). For those who think I have not
pursued the issue, my apologies for not CC'ing you on the many and varied
private discussions I have been having with several list members on what to
do about this exact topic (I HOPE you see blistering sarcasm coming through
here). Mostly, I believe the SPAM issue is much ado about nothing. Many
people on the list have posted AND sent me private email saying "It's your
list, you make the rules, do what you want". While that may be true, I have
always tried very hard to solicit input from listmembers anyway. Several of
the loudest complainers failed to realize that the spam was rarely coming
from this list, they were getting it from other sources most of the time. As
to having someone moderate the list: I have stated very clearly my somewhat
strong opposition to putting this list into moderated mode. That goes for ME
moderating it, or for delegating it to someone else. I also stated that if
moderating it becomes the only real solution, *I* would do it (yes, I have
the time, believe it or not). That is why I didn't answer the people who
offered to moderate the list (because I felt I had already responded to them
publicly).

As to not answering direct emails about the list? It is true, I do get a lot
of email every day, and I don't always choose to repond to every one of
them. You can bet that if someone emails me about list maintenance, it is
taken care of in a timely fashion. Yes, there have been one or two requests
for a change in mailing address that I didn't get to quickly. Sometimes it
is hard to keep track of so much email, no matter how much spare time I have
these days. However, I think that many of the people who just posted here
thanking me for the job I do would beg to differ with you on that point.

I have listened to the discussion about SPAM, I have been talking to others
on the list privately about it, and I will announce my intended solution as
soon as I am damn well ready to commit to something. Yes, I have a proposed
solution, it does NOT involve moderating the list, and as soon as I am
satisfied that it is the best route to go, I will post it on the list for
final discussion in case some people vehemently disagree with it.

Jay




From geoffr at zipcon.net  Fri Mar 15 20:42:53 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: More free stuff (you pay shipping)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315183503.04973e50@mail.zipcon.net>

Intel Aboveboard MCA  Microchannel memory expansion for MCA 286 (possibly 
386) PS/2's with 2MB of 256K simms on it standard parity 30 pin simms, I 
believe this may be capable of taking 1M simms, and possibly 4M simms, I 
don't remember.  was working when system was scrapped ~ 5 years ago

a 384K Ram card for PC's to take you 256k PC up to 640K, fully loaded with 
64K drams.  worked when it was pulled ~ 4 years ago

Microsoft PC Ramcard similar to above, but originally sold by Microsoft.  


From ekklein at pacbell.net  Fri Mar 15 20:53:39 2002
From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik and Karen Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: More free stuff (you pay shipping)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315183503.04973e50@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc95$c67da140$6e7ba8c0@piii933>

I'd be interested the PC (ISA) RAM cards.  I have several machines that
could benefit from those.

   Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Reed
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:43 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: More free stuff (you pay shipping)
Importance: High

Intel Aboveboard MCA  Microchannel memory expansion for MCA 286
(possibly 
386) PS/2's with 2MB of 256K simms on it standard parity 30 pin simms, I

believe this may be capable of taking 1M simms, and possibly 4M simms, I

don't remember.  was working when system was scrapped ~ 5 years ago

a 384K Ram card for PC's to take you 256k PC up to 640K, fully loaded
with 
64K drams.  worked when it was pulled ~ 4 years ago

Microsoft PC Ramcard similar to above, but originally sold by Microsoft.



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 15 21:05:14 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <007f01c1cc93$93c14420$0ff09a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Mar 15, 2 09:28:55 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1274 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/64a72589/attachment.ksh
From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 21:57:24 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: WTB: HP-IB CD-Rom
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C91C2D5.1050306@topinform.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020315225724.0082cea0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

  Yes, I have one. But I'm not sure if it works and I haven't had the time
to test it or needed it bad enough to drive me to find a way to test it.
FWIW The last time I heard, they were bringing about $300 on E-OverPay!

   Joe


At 01:00 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm looking for a HP-IB CD-Rom drive.
>
>Did one ever exist? I've never heard of such an animal...
>
>-tony
>
>


From dittman at dittman.net  Fri Mar 15 22:03:18 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <200203160403.g2G43IH10633@narnia.int.dittman.net>

I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
out the picture at:

http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg

and see if you recognize it?

Thanks.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:26 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020316042726.95400.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sellam Ismail  wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > ...a correspondence course in computer programming, complete
> > with sample punch cards, focusing on the 1401 as the target processor.
> 
> Oooh, what was the title?

The text book is...

Wanous, Wanous and Hughes, "Introduction to Automated Data Processing",
1968, South-Western Publishing Company, Cincinnati, OH.

I've found assignments on setting up the IBM 402 tabulator, and coding
forms for the IBM 1240/1401/1420/1440/1460, among other interesting
goodies.  The homework kit contains large fold-out charts of punch
card design sheets, 402 tabulator layout diagrams, sample punch cards
and time cards for assignments, etc.

What I was trying to remember is that this course specifically covers
the "1401 Symbolic Programming System" _and_ IBM 1401 machine language.
E.g...

        Machine Language Instructions
Instruction  Operation  A Address  B Address  d-Char    Comments
 Address       Code
  0378          1                                       READ A CARD
  0379          M        0009       0230                MOVE CHARACTER
  0388          M        0029       0250                MOVE CHARACTER
  0397          2                                       WRITE A LINE
  0398          /        0378       0299                CLEAR AND BRANCH

... vs...

        SPS Instructions
Label         Operation  A Operand B Operand  d-Char    Comments
REPEAT          R                                       READ A CARD
                MCW      0009       0230                MOVE CHAR
                MCW      0029       0250                MOVE CHAR
                W                                       WRITE A LINE
                CS       REPEAT     0299                CLEAR AND BRANCH

(from page 183)

-ethan




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From uban at ubanproductions.com  Fri Mar 15 22:39:51 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:26 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203160403.g2G43IH10633@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020315223951.00921950@ubanproductions.com>

That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
drive) and was usually a kit.

--tom

At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
>out the picture at:
>
>http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
>
>and see if you recognize it?
>
>Thanks.
>-- 
>Eric Dittman
>dittman@dittman.net
>Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
>
>

From schoedel at kw.igs.net  Sat Mar 16 00:00:27 2002
From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Schematics or repar informations for a HP9845B
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020315171256.00864a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020315171256.00864a70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

>   Aren't we all!  I've been looking for that stuff for about five years.
>The closest that I came was a 9845 service manual on E-bay but some SOB
>sniped it at the last second. I checked with the seller and he said it
>wasn't much of a manual and there were no schematics in it and only a few
>power supply test points. (the 9815 "service manual" is the same way).

I have a copy of the service manual -- got it with my 9845B -- and this is
correct; it's essentially just instructions for swapping modules.

I do hope to get around to scanning it one day anyway.

-- 
Kevin Schoedel
schoedel@kw.igs.net

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 16 00:28:27 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Email handlers (was Re: Netscape Mail, was Re: HTML in EMAIL)
Message-ID: <20020316062959.JRFY1304.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
> 
> > Then there are the longer list of freeware mailers.  Theres no excuse
for
> > living with crud.  There is also no excuse for not knowing how to
"drive"
> > what you have.

Doc replied:
 
>   Pine.  It Isn't Just For Unix Anymore!
>   There are Win32 ports now.  I think there's a fairly stable MacOS <10
> port.
>   Mutt has more features, and allows more granular tuning, but Pine is
> way easy to drive.

Okay.  I'm probably the last person still using Microsoft Mail.  It works
okay, but I can't find any information about security holes (or lack of
them) in this program, and it does not include the headers in messages
which I forward, so it's no good for reporting spam.

Sellam, I tried Pegasus v4 and the windows kept popping up in really odd
locations and sizes.  It also has *way* more bells and whistles than I
need.

Doc, I tried Pine, but the Win9x version requires that I be on-line to read
email.  I want to send/receive, logoff, and then read and compose new mail.
 Other than that, it looks okay.

Can some one suggest a simple offline email handler that isn't giving that
"come hither" look to every Trojan on earth?  And that's free?

Glen
0/0


From tosteve at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 00:35:42 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: vcf@vintage.org - does not work...
Message-ID: <20020316063542.81578.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hmmm, cannot send mail to vcf@vintage.org, it gets
rejected...

----->>

209.209.32.33 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 ...
Relaying denied
Giving up on 209.209.32.33.

<<-----


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From geoffr at zipcon.net  Sat Mar 16 00:40:19 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: More free stuff (you pay shipping)
In-Reply-To: <000001c1cc95$c67da140$6e7ba8c0@piii933>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315183503.04973e50@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315224010.021b0160@mail.zipcon.net>

They're yours :)

At 06:53 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'd be interested the PC (ISA) RAM cards.  I have several machines that
>could benefit from those.
>
>    Erik
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Reed
>Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 6:43 PM
>To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>Subject: More free stuff (you pay shipping)
>Importance: High
>
>Intel Aboveboard MCA  Microchannel memory expansion for MCA 286
>(possibly
>386) PS/2's with 2MB of 256K simms on it standard parity 30 pin simms, I
>
>believe this may be capable of taking 1M simms, and possibly 4M simms, I
>
>don't remember.  was working when system was scrapped ~ 5 years ago
>
>a 384K Ram card for PC's to take you 256k PC up to 640K, fully loaded
>with
>64K drams.  worked when it was pulled ~ 4 years ago
>
>Microsoft PC Ramcard similar to above, but originally sold by Microsoft.


From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sat Mar 16 00:44:51 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
Message-ID: <003b01c1ccb6$13fd5c10$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

Sellam Wrote....
> Ok, this is where I object.  It is NOT your list.  This list

That's funny you should say that now Sellam, because you were the first one
to post to me privately during the great "reply-to" debate that "it is your
list, take care of it well....", and "you make the rules... do what you
wish". I will go dig up your past private email to me that said just that if
you would like. You have also posted words similar to that on the list in
the past, I noted them well. I find it interesting that you are suddenly
changing your tune. Does your past stance on this issue no longer mesh with
your adgenda perhaps?

> I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
> how it is run.  I, for one, would like some input on issues.

You do get some input. I listen. However I also make the final
determination. If you don't like it, or feel that I don't get reasonable
input from the list members, please feel free to start an alternate list -
that appears to be your motivation in any case.

> That was true before.  Unfortunately, the list has now been infiltrated
> with spammers, which is quite unfortunate.

Infiltrated with Spammers? See Jerome's recent post on this topic for a
reality check Sellam.

> Kill all off-topic messages (start with this one) as well as
> spam.

That statement is what a flamer would call a "target rich environment". I
think I'll leave the gauntlet on the ground.

> Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When will you
> be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks ago.  I
> think it's time to finally do something.

Sellam, you're trying to bait me. I'm not falling for it. Live with it.

Jay West



From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Sat Mar 16 00:50:19 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
Message-ID: <200203160650.AA03729@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Subject: Re: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:08:38 +0000 (GMT)
> In-Reply-To: <01aa01c1cc34$96981700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Mar 15, 2 10:17:56 am
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> > 
> > tony said:
> > > If you then solder the mating part of the connector to stripboard 
> > > with a track cut between the 2 rows of pins then each pin will be
> > > on it's own strip.
> > 
> > This isn't bad, except for that the signals are now one set of
> > 1,3,5,7...  and one set of 2,4,6,8...   If I want to keep the
> > contiguous signals together then I have to jumper just about 
>
> I may be missing something here, but is there any reason why you have to 
> keep the signals in numerical order? OK, you have a PDP11/34 console with 
> the 20 way (or so) ribbon coming off it. What are you trying to link it 
> to? If you're building your own interface circuit you're going to have to 
> route the signals around to different chips, surely.

Seems to me that nearly all ribbon cables use even-numbered pins for
signal and odd-numbered pins for ground.  So signal and ground lines
alternate in the cable.  

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                                          clowenstein@ucsd.edu

From hhacker at ev1.net  Sat Mar 16 01:53:00 2002
From: hhacker at ev1.net (William R. Buckley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <003b01c1ccb6$13fd5c10$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: 

Quietly I observe this debate.  Yet, I feel most for Jay, given my own
history of operating an organisation to which others subscribed: the
International Core Wars Society.  Eventually, the subscribers came to
feel that they owned what was my personal property (not that the Classic
Computers list is anyone's personal property).  So, with time, I relented,
giving up all of my property rights for the benefit of Core War generally.
The result, the ICWS is now a defunct organisation.

Moral: Jay, given that you were granted control, and given that others
were fully satisfied with your having such control (and the attendent
responsibilities), it is clear that you should not give up such control
(lest the list go the way of the ICWS) and you should stick to your
guns.

My vote is for Jay!

William R. Buckley

Sellam Wrote....
> Ok, this is where I object.  It is NOT your list.  This list

That's funny you should say that now Sellam, because you were the first one
to post to me privately during the great "reply-to" debate that "it is your
list, take care of it well....", and "you make the rules... do what you
wish". I will go dig up your past private email to me that said just that if
you would like. You have also posted words similar to that on the list in
the past, I noted them well. I find it interesting that you are suddenly
changing your tune. Does your past stance on this issue no longer mesh with
your adgenda perhaps?

> I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
> how it is run.  I, for one, would like some input on issues.

You do get some input. I listen. However I also make the final
determination. If you don't like it, or feel that I don't get reasonable
input from the list members, please feel free to start an alternate list -
that appears to be your motivation in any case.

> That was true before.  Unfortunately, the list has now been infiltrated
> with spammers, which is quite unfortunate.

Infiltrated with Spammers? See Jerome's recent post on this topic for a
reality check Sellam.

> Kill all off-topic messages (start with this one) as well as
> spam.

That statement is what a flamer would call a "target rich environment". I
think I'll leave the gauntlet on the ground.

> Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When will you
> be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks ago.  I
> think it's time to finally do something.

Sellam, you're trying to bait me. I'm not falling for it. Live with it.

Jay West




From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Mar 16 02:04:48 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Does anyone have HP-UX install media for 9000/7xx?
Message-ID: <20020316.020451.-938939.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



If you do, please contact me.
I would like to ask you a few questions . . .


Thanks!


Jeff

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 16 02:06:06 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
References:  <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: <009701c1ccc1$6c869bc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> Really. Wow, that's funny, because I read the mail on this list every night.
> I may occasionally go a day or two without it, but that's not very common.
> Moreover, I, (probably like most on the list), routinely skip and delete
> (without reading) posts that don't appear to be about anything that
> interests me, with regards to my own collection or to list issues. Perhaps a
> thread or two has gone by that had a subject line that didn't cause me to
> read it when in fact it contained discussion that I should have watched.

Jay makes an excellent point here.  I browse the list in exactly the same way.  It's frustrating to spend time reading messages that
have no connection to the subject line, and it's just as frustrating to know that I'm missing some good stuff for the same reason.
Yes, it's harder to follow the thread if the subject line keeps changing; but my view is that if the subject line no longer has any
connection to the message, then maintaining the continuity of the thread is pointless.




From frustum at pacbell.net  Sat Mar 16 02:22:11 2002
From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020316000117.01f34500@postoffice.pacbell.net>

At 08:30 PM 3/15/02 -0600, Jay West wrote:
>Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who is trying very
>hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...

Perhaps Jay doesn't post as frequently as some, but his S/N ratio is to be 
admired.  I'd say the fact that he isn't an obvious presence looming over 
the list is testimony to his success at running the show.  Spam is to be 
deplored, but there is a much greater number of off-topic posts generated 
by individuals of this list than all the spam that has been received.  For 
taking care of that problem, we are all in control and don't need any 
really restrictive policies.

What to do:

         1) Don't post off-topic crap.  If you have a subject line that 
begins "OT", don't post.  Where you draw the line of on-top vs off-topic is 
quite open to debate, but there is a large volume of willfully off topic 
messages, and these, at least, should get the axe.

         2) Don't respond to off-topic crap on-list.  Send it off list.

Here's a great test.  If the thought of using the list to respond to an 
off-topic posting is appealing but responding to just the individual 
originator of the message isn't, then I'd suggest that maybe you have an 
ego problem that is being fed by having a semi-captive audience.

Yes, quite obvious points, but apparently not practiced.

Count me as a happy customer, Jay.  Thanks.


(and, no, there is no irony here as I consider this subject on-topic)

-----
Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Mar 16 02:23:37 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <20020316.022457.-938939.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>


I Second that!
Firstly, regardless of your position on this matter, we must
all realize that we are enjoying the *privledge* of using this
*public* forum for discourse.

This privledge is granted purely by Jay's unselfish contribution
of time, effort, and bandwith.  We owe Jay alot-- hassling him
for something that is part and parcel with a public forum such 
as ours is unjustified and unfair.

The burden of keeping our forum relevent does not lie with one
person-- it lies with us all.  Help preserve our relevence by
keeping your posts on-topic (yeah I know, I'm a guilty party too).

Yes, a few bums use our forum as a sleeping place, stinking it 
up as they tend to do.  But we have the power to evict them with 
the  key.  A small effort by many, is more powerful than 
a great effort by a few (or the one).

It's cold, here in Kansas.  I think I'll break up this soapbox,
and make a nice warm fire.  Maybe I'll even roast a few hotdogs.



Jeff



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:53:00 -0800 "William R. Buckley" 
writes:
> Moral: Jay, given that you were granted control, and given that 
> others were fully satisfied with your having such control (and the 
> attendent responsibilities), it is clear that you should not give up
such 
> control (lest the list go the way of the ICWS) and you should stick to
your
> guns.
> 
> My vote is for Jay!
> 
> William R. Buckley
> 
> Sellam Wrote....
> > Ok, this is where I object.  It is NOT your list.  This list
> 
> That's funny you should say that now Sellam, because you were the 
> first one
> to post to me privately during the great "reply-to" debate that "it 
> is your
> list, take care of it well....", and "you make the rules... do what 
> you
> wish". I will go dig up your past private email to me that said just 
> that if
> you would like. You have also posted words similar to that on the 
> list in
> the past, I noted them well. I find it interesting that you are 
> suddenly
> changing your tune. Does your past stance on this issue no longer 
> mesh with
> your adgenda perhaps?
> 
> > I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
> > how it is run.  I, for one, would like some input on issues.
> 
> You do get some input. I listen. However I also make the final
> determination. If you don't like it, or feel that I don't get 
> reasonable
> input from the list members, please feel free to start an alternate 
> list -
> that appears to be your motivation in any case.
> 
> > That was true before.  Unfortunately, the list has now been 
> infiltrated
> > with spammers, which is quite unfortunate.
> 
> Infiltrated with Spammers? See Jerome's recent post on this topic 
> for a
> reality check Sellam.
> 
> > Kill all off-topic messages (start with this one) as well as
> > spam.
> 
> That statement is what a flamer would call a "target rich 
> environment". I
> think I'll leave the gauntlet on the ground.
> 
> > Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When 
> will you
> > be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks 
> ago.  I
> > think it's time to finally do something.
> 
> Sellam, you're trying to bait me. I'm not falling for it. Live with 
> it.
> 
> Jay West
> 
> 
> 


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Sat Mar 16 03:13:49 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: [GreenKeys] News item for WC2XPF (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:55:49 EST."
              
Message-ID: <200203160913.JAA08960@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

philip@awale.qc.ca said:
> 
> On 15-Mar-2002 John Lawson wrote:
>  
> > The code was the first 8-bit standard code that allowed characters, such
> > as those found on a keyboard, to be represented by the same codes on
> > many different kinds of computers.
> Wasn't ASCII orignally 7-bit?

AFAIK it still is. Ayway, characters > 127 differ between machines.

[snip]
> 
> > "He traveled all over the world defining what this code would represent.
> > This is the code that is still used in PCs today," Silberg said.
> 
> Huh?!  All over the world, but didn't seem to stray to a
> non-english-speaking country.  ASCII serves very poorly for those of us
> who need accents.
> 

ISO 646 was supposed to deal with that problem...but how many computers
support it?

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From bill_r at inebraska.com  Sat Mar 16 03:40:14 2002
From: bill_r at inebraska.com (Bill Richman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: 

I'd have to agree that the worst "noise" on the list comes, not from
spammers, but from the people complaining about the spammers or making fun
of them, or (worse yet) analyzing the content of the spam.  Seeing
some of these same people rake the list moderator over the coals for not
"doing something about it" is like hearing someone complain about smog
while driving a car that constantly belches blue smoke.  What's wrong with
this picture?  I don't know Jay - in fact, I don't know that I've ever
even exchanged e-mail with him - but I've rarely seen much on this list
that's OT that hasn't been generated by regular list members.  Sure, it's
disappointing when some scumbag spammer sneaks a message onto the list now
and again, but it's even more disappointing that some people can't just
ignore the occasional spam and move on, without filling up the list with
_responses_ to the spam.  If someone farts in a business meeting, do you spend
the next 10 minutes of the meeting complaining loudly about it, or do you
just wince/shrug/smirk to yourself and carry on?  I'd say anyone who hosts
this list and puts up with the comments from such a mixed bag of
eccentrics, neurotics, and overgrown kids as comprises this list deserves
a gold star - not a black eye.

   



From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 16 04:13:09 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Owen Robertson wrote:

> I would just like to point out that there have been between 20 and 30
> replies to this, and the topic only came up a few days ago. It would take
> weeks for that many SPAM posts to come accross here. It seems to me like
> we're doing a much better job of cluttering the list than the SPAMmers are.

First of all, let me publicly thank Jay for providing the server, the
bandwidth, and his TIME to host the list.  If I seemed ingrateful it was
my fault.  Jay IS doing a very good job.  I let the spam issue cloud my
judgement of Jay's performance.  Jay is a fine list operator.

All things considered, the spam issue is not that great...YET.  Now, I'm
not saying I'm 100% right about this, but if experience is any indicator,
it always starts out slow and then builds.  I see the spam trend building.
Maybe it's just my perception.  Or maybe it's a fact.  Whatever the case,
WE HAVE SPAM.  I don't like it.  I fear it will get worse, and I want to
do something NOW to hopefully put a stop to it.

We grew used to off-topic postings.  Fine.  We may grow used to seeing
spam on the list, and if my predictions are correct, we may have to get
used to seeing spam on the list daily.  Hmm, OK.  But what if a bunch of
wailing banshies uses the list to talk about stuff completely unrelated to
our topic (which, surprisingly, is classic computers)?  Is that going to
also be passed off as "something to deal with" or "something to use the
delete key for"?  What if Al Quaeda started to use the list to broadcast
secret messages to each other?

Look, I'm the last guy to proclaim the sky is falling, but the simple fact
of the matter is that this issue can be resolved, quite painlessly,
without ANY detriment to the list, and it could have already been
implemented.  That's all.

I'll try very hard not to say anymore about this.  Hell, I pretty much
gave up on it and was just deleting the spam until the Nigerian scam
bastards showed up.  It just signaled to me that the situation was getting
worse.  I kid you not but I get at least 2-3 of those messages weekly,
sometimes 2-3 a day between my various e-mail addresses.  I save them.
They're funny.  I just don't want to see the list cluttered with them.

As I stated to Jay privately, this is a sanctuary to me.  Imagine this as
a big-domed meeting hall.  I like to hear the rumblings of various
conversations happening all over.  But then some asshole comes in and
yells "BUY MY CRAP! BUY MY CRAP!"  It just ruins the whole setting.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 16 04:21:47 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management
In-Reply-To: <005901c1cd0e$65c24030$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:

> At the time of the last major political flame war on the list, I received
> tons of email from many people DEMANDING that I ban Sellam. I refused, on
> that occasion, for reasons that I am not sure I can now recall. That is the
> only time I have ever gone against the majority will of the list. So Sellam,
> you are here only BECAUSE I am the one to decide solely how it is run.

Gee, am I that bad?  Sorry I have an opinion.

Yes, I find this ironic.  I'm sure many of the people DEMANDING that I be
banned were the very people selfishly shitting all over the list.
Whatever.

And if it was, as you characterize it, the "majority" of the list, then
maybe you should have banned me.  But what would be the point of that?  I
could still post messages to the list since it's open to anyone for
posting.

Dumb asses.

> Nuff said, lets get back to the list topic please

Oh, ok.  Let's now get back on topic because you said so.

(Gee, irony all around.)

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *





From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 16 05:05:45 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE and how to question
In-Reply-To: <18b.4e90555.29c4e4d8@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote:

> I would rather learn about how to attack Spam at it's source. I am learning
> how to decipher the mail headers. I need to figure out how to automate
> complaint letters. From what I have seen the direct complaint to the service
> provider works best.

Try spamcop.net.  Very cool.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 05:17:19 2002
From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: 


>Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When will you 
>be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks ago.  I 
>think it's time to finally do something.

The SPAM is not the problem. The problem is the rant that continue long 
after the SPAM has gone. In this case, there was a single email SPAM 
followed by forty F***ING replys bitching about all the SPAM coming from the 
list.

The SPAM is not the problem... The real problem is the members that refuse 
to shut the hell up!

Take your whining somewhere else!

SteveRob



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:56 2002
From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: WTB: HP-IB CD-Rom
Message-ID: 

>   Yes, I have one. But I'm not sure if it works and I haven't had the time 
>to test it or needed it bad enough to drive me to find a way to test it.

That's probably the one I gave you. It was working just fine last year. The 
caddys can also be hard to find. I look for them at every ham fest / swap 
meet.

SteveRob



>At 01:00 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a HP-IB CD-Rom drive.
> >
> >Did one ever exist? I've never heard of such an animal...
> >
> >-tony
> >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 16 06:24:08 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: vcf@vintage.org - does not work...
In-Reply-To: <20020316063542.81578.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, steve wrote:

> Hmmm, cannot send mail to vcf@vintage.org, it gets
> rejected...

Hmm, is anyone else having this problem?  I'm running a test right now and
so far a message from a Hotmail account hasn't shown up.  Strange...

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Sat Mar 16 06:39:43 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: WTB: HP-IB CD-Rom
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020316073943.00812680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 06:26 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>   Yes, I have one. But I'm not sure if it works and I haven't had the time 
>>to test it or needed it bad enough to drive me to find a way to test it.
>
>That's probably the one I gave you. It was working just fine last year. The 
>caddys can also be hard to find. I look for them at every ham fest / swap 
>meet.
>
>SteveRob

    Does it use the same odd caddies that the DEC CD drive uses?

    Joe


From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com  Sat Mar 16 07:46:01 2002
From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: <20020316042726.95400.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316084348.00a19720@pop3.norton.antivirus>

At 08:27 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Machine Language Instructions
>Instruction  Operation  A Address  B Address  d-Char    Comments
>  Address       Code
>   0378          1                                       READ A CARD
>   0379          M        0009       0230                MOVE CHARACTER
>   0388          M        0029       0250                MOVE CHARACTER
>   0397          2                                       WRITE A LINE
>   0398          /        0378       0299                CLEAR AND BRANCH

And punch a card was OpCode 4.

Op codes could be combined so the OpCode 7 was read/write/punch. You could 
make the machine real busy by putting a 7 with a word mark throughout 
storage using the switches on the console.


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 07:49:36 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> >Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > Sure, but SPAM is at least partly pervasive due to the low cost
> > of harvesting addresses. This might bump it into the unprofitable
> > zone...
> 
> I have asked for comments on the following - does anyone care?

I think your solution is somewhat Byzantine. Why not just
edit your headers to something that can't be replied to 
by output from a harvester?

Regards,
-dq

From jfoust at threedee.com  Sat Mar 16 07:51:02 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: 
References: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020316073930.022eaff8@pc>

At 09:30 PM 3/15/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
>You may HOST the list, and you may MANAGE the operations of the list.  But
>it is not your list.  At this point, it is OUR list, "our" being the
>subscribers of the list.  I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
>how it is run.  I, for one, would like some input on issues.  I (try) to
>enjoy the list as do others.  If something bothers me about it (off-topic
>posts, spam) I'm going to bitch about it.

I've always considered people who host lists to be an unusual
and saintly sort.  The best are competent, benevolent dictators.
Any two of those components without the third tend to stink 
up the room.  Anyone is free to host their own list, and it
gets easier every day with places like Yahoo's lists.

As Tony said, it's all about the information.  If list archives
are preserved, and if info gets easier to find over time, does
it matter where the good info is?

- John


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 08:03:20 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
> >out the picture at:
> >
> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
> >
> >and see if you recognize it?
>
> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
> drive) and was usually a kit.

If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...

If gone now, I have a copy...

-dq

From roosmcd at dds.nl  Sat Mar 16 08:14:12 2002
From: roosmcd at dds.nl (roosmcd@dds.nl)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: 9915a
In-Reply-To: <200203141806.g2EI6RI76499@ns2.ezwind.net>
References: <200203141806.g2EI6RI76499@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <1016288052.3c935334beff3@webmail.dds.nl>

>    Where are you located? I'm just outside of Orlando Florida.

 I'm in the Netherlands, so that's not exactly next door. But I don't think I'm 
going to have much trouble finding a HP-85, at least I hope not.
 
> > About two months ago I noticed a complete HP-85 (tapes, manuals and a 19"
> > rack with HP-IB equipment)
> 
>    Was it on a pull out drawer and in a cabinet that was about 18" tall?
> If so I've seen those before, they're a data acquision system and it
> usually has a HP 3497 Data Acquision unit in the bottom. There's a number
> for the complete unit but I can't remeber exactly what it is. Somewhere I
> have a couple of manuals and tapes for that system.

 Yes, that sounds exactly like it. Usually they have stuff standing there for a 
few months, but this one was gone pretty quick. They normally have lots of 
weird computer systems (not at the moment; I checked last Friday and it was 
almost empty), but I tend to stick to the smaller systems; mostly what you see 
are industrial controllers in 2m tall 19" racks.... 

  Michiel


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 08:18:40 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Here's a great test.  If the thought of using the list to respond to an 
> off-topic posting is appealing but responding to just the individual 
> originator of the message isn't, then I'd suggest that maybe you have an 
> ego problem that is being fed by having a semi-captive audience.

I'm in total agreement with this. Believe it or not, each and
every time I make first response to such a thread, I do so with 
the intention of sending it only to the poster... then just after 
I click send, I once again realize that REPLY goes to the list 
instead of the SENDER and REPLY TO ALL doesn't work at all... [0]

Once I've done that I regret it, but admittedly not enough to
stop my subsequent OT posts in that thread.

Recently, I've had just enough presence of mind to remember
to re-address the message.

Outlook is programmable, so it can be made to operate the
way I want it to regardless of how brain-dead the listserver
software might be (I haven't been happy with any listservers
other than the IBM BITNET-hosted ones; this seems to be a function
no one else can do right). I guess I need to get started,
as soon as the Cyber simulator is finished...


[0] If you can't believe that anyone can be this absent-minded,
    then you haven't interacted with a very wide range of people

-dq

From rhb57 at vol.com  Sat Mar 16 08:22:18 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <200203151620.g2FGK0J07222@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 

Back then people had multiple user accounts too and would add feedback to
their own accounts, and someone could also add neg feedback even if they'd
never dealt with the seller. I'm glad they made it sales oriented but I'm
yes/no on the thing with repeat customer's feedback not generating a higher
rating.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
=> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:20 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=> Back in the early days anyone could leave feedback, which lead
=> unscrupulous individuals to create lots of accounts just to
=> add feedback.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From rhb57 at vol.com  Sat Mar 16 08:22:24 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)
In-Reply-To: <012801c1cc8b$bf2555a0$bc469280@y5f3q8>
Message-ID: 

I've only seen their posts and I know from a question to them that they're
on the NW side of Columbus. Some of their stuff is reasonable and some is
less than desirable. If I had known of t hem when I went to Columbus to
pickup my Netserver from Computer Success I would have had time to check
their place out. I asked them about a Netserver for parts they have/had on
lately and never got a reply so I never persued it.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert Schaefer
=> > Huh?!?  I've never heard of these guys, but I suspect that maybe I
=> > should.  They aren't in the phone book under that name, and a search
=> > of NSI with whois shows the domain registered out of Colorado...
=>
=> They're in Hilliard, IIRC.  Never been there, but I took a long
=> hard look at
=> an old server they had on epay a while back.  They encouraged
=> people to come
=> by and check out the kit before bidding.  At one time, I thought I knew
=> which building they were in, but now I'm not so sure-- I drove
=> past one day
=> (didn't have a chance to stop) and it didn't look like a computer
=> warehouse/store.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From rhb57 at vol.com  Sat Mar 16 08:22:26 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)
In-Reply-To: <20020315224016.55783.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

No- the ebay username dotcomliquidators is who I'm speaking of, prolly a
diff bunch.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
=> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:40 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: dotcomliquidators (was RE: elobby on ebay)
=>
=>
=>
=> --- Russ Blakeman  wrote:
=> > He buys a lot from DotComLiquidators as they're right in Columbus, not
=> > too far from Dayton so I guess he drives there
=>
=> Huh?!?  I've never heard of these guys, but I suspect that maybe I
=> should.  They aren't in the phone book under that name, and a search
=> of NSI with whois shows the domain registered out of Colorado...
=>
=> Organization:
=>       Concept Factory, LLC.
=>       Bruce Bacon
=>       9263 Sagebrush Trail
=>       Littleton, CO 80124
=>       US
=>       Phone: (303) 706-9757
=>       Email: Bruce@cyberbacons.com
=>
=>    Registrar Name....: Register.com
=>    Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
=>    Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com
=>
=>    Domain Name: DOTCOMLIQUIDATORS.COM
=>
=>       Created on..............: Wed, Apr 12, 2000
=>       Expires on..............: Fri, Apr 12, 2002
=>       Record last updated on..: Sat, Jan 05, 2002
=>
=>    Administrative Contact:
=>       Concept Factory, LLC.
=>       Bruce Bacon
=>       9263 Sagebrush Trail
=>       Littleton, CO 80124
=>       US
=>       Phone: (303) 706-9757
=>       Email: Bruce@cyberbacons.com
=>
=>    Technical Contact:
=>       Register.Com
=>       Domain Registrar
=>       575 8th Avenue
=>       New York, NY 10018
=>       US
=>       Phone: 212-798-9200
=>       Fax..: 212-629-9305
=>       Email: domain-registrar@register.com
=>
=>    Zone Contact:
=>       Register.Com
=>       Domain Registrar
=>       575 8th Avenue
=>       New York, NY 10018
=>       US
=>       Phone: 212-798-9200
=>       Fax..: 212-629-9305
=>       Email: domain-registrar@register.com
=>
=>    Domain servers in listed order:
=>
=>    DNS17.REGISTER.COM                                209.67.50.247
=>    DNS18.REGISTER.COM                                209.67.50.248
=>
=>
=> Besides dropping them a line at the e-mail address on their webpage,
=> anybody know how to locate them?
=>
=> -ethan
=>
=>
=>
=> __________________________________________________
=> Do You Yahoo!?
=> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
=> http://sports.yahoo.com/
=>
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002
=>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From uban at ubanproductions.com  Sat Mar 16 08:31:26 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A2@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020316083126.0093fc80@ubanproductions.com>

At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
>> >out the picture at:
>> >
>> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
>> >
>> >and see if you recognize it?
>>
>> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
>> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
>> drive) and was usually a kit.
>
>If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
>boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...

It would appear that it is still available and reasonably priced!

http://www.cadigital.com/software.htm

--tom

>If gone now, I have a copy...
>
>-dq
>
>

From uban at ubanproductions.com  Sat Mar 16 08:34:35 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A2@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020316083435.00941b50@ubanproductions.com>

BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
anyone has one they want to find a new home for...

--tom

At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
>> >out the picture at:
>> >
>> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
>> >
>> >and see if you recognize it?
>>
>> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
>> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
>> drive) and was usually a kit.
>
>If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
>boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
>
>If gone now, I have a copy...
>
>-dq
>
>

From marvin at rain.org  Sat Mar 16 08:50:59 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
References:  <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: <3C935BD3.5E36ECA@rain.org>


Jay West wrote:
> 
> Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who is trying very
> hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...

Jay, count me as one who is quite satisfied with your handling of this
listserver! 

I find the change of subject but not changing the subject line annoying
and do pretty much the same thing you do with them. Yup, I do lose some
good info, but good is relative; it is not worth my time to parse each
message to try and find something of interest.

Again, the spam is not a problem; it is the multiple complaints about
the spam that helps lowers the S/N ratio (which is already pretty low)
of this listserver. But again, this is a subscriber responsibility
issue, and I like the way you have been handling it.

> I have listened to the discussion about SPAM, I have been talking to others
> on the list privately about it, and I will announce my intended solution as
> soon as I am damn well ready to commit to something. Yes, I have a proposed
> solution, it does NOT involve moderating the list, and as soon as I am
> satisfied that it is the best route to go, I will post it on the list for
> final discussion in case some people vehemently disagree with it.

Another indication that you are doing a good job!!! Keep up the good
work!!!

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 08:53:15 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
> anyone has one they want to find a new home for...

Ditto that, and a Little Boards, too (ISTR Allison's
got one or more of the Little Boards)...

-dq
 

From bshannon at tiac.net  Sat Mar 16 08:54:16 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
Message-ID: <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net>

Well said!

Lets not foolishly try to hold Jay responsible for the actions of the list
members (pun intended).

Steve Robertson wrote:

> >Jay, don't take this too personally, but that answer SUCKS!  When will you
> >be "damn well ready"?  The list asked for a solution several weeks ago.  I
> >think it's time to finally do something.
>
> The SPAM is not the problem. The problem is the rant that continue long
> after the SPAM has gone. In this case, there was a single email SPAM
> followed by forty F***ING replys bitching about all the SPAM coming from the
> list.
>
> The SPAM is not the problem... The real problem is the members that refuse
> to shut the hell up!
>
> Take your whining somewhere else!
>
> SteveRob
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 16 08:57:10 2002
From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: 

I have an 820 I'll let go reasonably. Shipping will be a bit of a PITA.

Where are you located?

SteveRob

>From: Tom Uban 
>Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
>Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:34:35 -0600
>
>BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
>anyone has one they want to find a new home for...
>
>--tom
>
>At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
> >> >out the picture at:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
> >> >
> >> >and see if you recognize it?
> >>
> >> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big 
>board.
> >> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" 
>floppy
> >> drive) and was usually a kit.
> >
> >If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> >boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> >
> >If gone now, I have a copy...
> >
> >-dq
> >
> >




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 16 09:13:45 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c1ccfd$2a984920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I've still got a "BigBoard" or two, and the accompanying 12-15 diskettes, as
well as a couple of compatible keyboards (hacked at the connector so a simple
flat cable makes the connection).  I can guarantee that they don't, at the
moment, work, though I can also guarantee that they did, at one time, prior to
an IC failure.  I was busily working on these, one of which was working OK,
when something went poof, and I set them aside.  I've simply not gotten back
to them.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed


> > BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
> > anyone has one they want to find a new home for...
>
> Ditto that, and a Little Boards, too (ISTR Allison's
> got one or more of the Little Boards)...
>
> -dq
>
>
>


From bshannon at tiac.net  Sat Mar 16 09:15:11 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
References: <3.0.5.32.20020316083435.00941b50@ubanproductions.com>
Message-ID: <3C93617F.1BC540FA@tiac.net>

I've got a big board Tom.

I also need to get you those 2 RK05 drives, and the BBN BitGraph...

Tom Uban wrote:

> BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
> anyone has one they want to find a new home for...
>
> --tom
>
> At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
> >> >out the picture at:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
> >> >
> >> >and see if you recognize it?
> >>
> >> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
> >> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
> >> drive) and was usually a kit.
> >
> >If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> >boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> >
> >If gone now, I have a copy...
> >
> >-dq
> >
> >


From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 16 09:17:19 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
References: 
Message-ID: <005701c1ccfd$aaa33760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Speaking of the Xerox 820 ... I've got a little daughterboard that was made by
a local company, the purpose of which was to introduce a 179x where the 1771
lives.  With the addition of some software I don't have, it makes the thing
double-density (MFM) capable.  It even has a wire with an "EZ-Hook" for
attaching to a parallel port bit, though I don't know which one.  

With less than a week's effort, I could find this thing, but it would take a
concentrated effort of a month or so to find the one-sheet document that went
with it.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Robertson" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed


> I have an 820 I'll let go reasonably. Shipping will be a bit of a PITA.
>
> Where are you located?
>
> SteveRob
>
> >From: Tom Uban 
> >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> >Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
> >Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:34:35 -0600
> >
> >BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
> >anyone has one they want to find a new home for...
> >
> >--tom
> >
> >At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
> > >> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
> > >> >out the picture at:
> > >> >
> > >> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
> > >> >
> > >> >and see if you recognize it?
> > >>
> > >> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big
> >board.
> > >> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8"
> >floppy
> > >> drive) and was usually a kit.
> > >
> > >If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> > >boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> > >
> > >If gone now, I have a copy...
> > >
> > >-dq
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>


From LFessen106 at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 09:54:21 2002
From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <14c.a91b083.29c4c4ad@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/16/02 10:03:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, marvin@rain.org 
writes:

> Jay West wrote:
>  > 
>  > Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who is trying 
> very
>  > hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...

Jay, you're doing a fine job and we all owe you some gratitude for keeping 
the list running as smoothly as it has been.

-Linc Fessenden

From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 16 09:58:37 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: IBM 1401
References: <200203151858.g2FIwsF13876@math.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <001501c1cd03$6fa89640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> Thanks in advance,   --Van Snyder

Gosh, only one response so far?
I have a small collection of parts 
from one drawer (1/16th of one machine)
that I can give you photos from
and I think the Retro Computing Society
of Rhode Island may have some boards,
but ?not for sale.

John A.



From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 16 10:00:28 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
References:  <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay> <3C935BD3.5E36ECA@rain.org>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cd03$b1aebf60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I do have issue with commercial advertising on this list, but I certainly have
no problems of any sort with the way in which the list and all the associated
problems have been managed.

If there's a problem with SPAMming on the list, it's most likely not because
of what the list manager has done, but because of what others who use the list
haven't.  SPAMmers love to find things like this list, where a single message
is distributed widely with no effort or cost borne by them.  Do you think
there'd be VCF SPAM if the organizer had to pay a nickel for every destination
to which his message is delivered?  Now lots of the folks on this list are
interested in what's up with VCF, and that's a SPAMmer's target.  It doesn't
do the SPAMmer any good to send his message to folks completely uninterested
in it.  It's the occasional interested party that's his target.

It's true, a little discipline would help the list quite a bit.  One thing
that would help everyone would be if the subject line changed along with the
topic.  There's also been enough discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of
eBay, that we all know, by now, that some folks like it and some don't.
Blaring on about that won't change anybody's mind.  It's been nearly a year
since the last time Sellam and I got in to a flame-fest about law and order.
I'm not going to promote another, however.  If Sellam and I can display a
little restraint, perhaps others can, as well.

I'm also not going to get behind a movement among folks who've never run a
list like this one to move the admin responisibility from an experienced hand
to one less experienced.  The time and resource demands are too great,
particularly if one hasn't done it before, and I'd recommend people
investigate what THEY can do themselves to prevent the address of this list
from finding its way into spammers'address harvesters, such as disguising it
when referring to it in newsgroups, etc, before they ask the list
administrator to do their work for them or to implement draconian measures to
compensate for their own unwillingness to to the work.  I doubt there's
anything one can do about the OT stuff and irrelevant titles ... since folks
often hit 'send' before they think ... and I'm among them.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: List Management - RESPONSE


>
> Jay West wrote:
> >
> > Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who is trying
very
> > hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...
>
> Jay, count me as one who is quite satisfied with your handling of this
> listserver!
>
> I find the change of subject but not changing the subject line annoying
> and do pretty much the same thing you do with them. Yup, I do lose some
> good info, but good is relative; it is not worth my time to parse each
> message to try and find something of interest.
>
> Again, the spam is not a problem; it is the multiple complaints about
> the spam that helps lowers the S/N ratio (which is already pretty low)
> of this listserver. But again, this is a subscriber responsibility
> issue, and I like the way you have been handling it.
>
> > I have listened to the discussion about SPAM, I have been talking to
others
> > on the list privately about it, and I will announce my intended solution
as
> > soon as I am damn well ready to commit to something. Yes, I have a
proposed
> > solution, it does NOT involve moderating the list, and as soon as I am
> > satisfied that it is the best route to go, I will post it on the list for
> > final discussion in case some people vehemently disagree with it.
>
> Another indication that you are doing a good job!!! Keep up the good
> work!!!
>
>


From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 16 10:06:04 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled
References: 
Message-ID: <003001c1cd04$7a1d7a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Request for quotation:

If I wanted a, say, 10"x10" pcb made to order,
what would I expect to pay and what format
drawings would the maker take?

John A.


From kevan at heydon.org  Sat Mar 16 10:12:36 2002
From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: IBM Display Writer System Available (UK)
Message-ID: 


I have just been given a Display Writer system complete with CPU,
Keyboard, Monitor, Dual 8" floppy drive and some floppy disks. I have been
told it works but I haven't tested it myself yet. It is surplus to my
requirements so if anybody wants it they can have it. I can test it if
there is interest.

--
Kevan

Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/



From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 16 10:15:46 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: I have a PDP-11/34 programmer's console, what should I do with it?
References: 
Message-ID: <003401c1cd05$d5021aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

+AD4- If you're building your own interface circuit 
+AD4- you're going to have to route the signals around
+AD4- to different chips, surely.

The original thread of the conversation was 
about making the 11/34 console communicate over 
RS232 or some such.  I woild use PIC to do this, 
eventually.  But the first work would be in just
being able to demo the console.

There are a number of components that put 8
or more items together (at 0.10+ACI-) and connect
them in one shot, like resistor packs, LED bar
displays and DIP switches.  I'd like to be able
to have every component be as simple and direct
as this.  I guess my quest for simplicity comes
from too many years with +ACI-building block+ACI- kits.

John A.



From jrice at texoma.net  Sat Mar 16 10:18:54 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References:  <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net>

I've had the same email address since 1994.  I get about 4-500 email 
messages a day of which at least 10% is spam.  That's what the little 
key with  on the top is for.  I like the occasional OT message 
threads, sometimes for humor, sometimes for useful info.  If you don't 
want to read the messages, sort by subject and delete  the whole thread 
before reading.  But every time a spam message appears, there seem to be 
30-40 messages complaining about it.  I've got better things to do with 
my time.  

I personally want to thank Jay for hosting the list.  After all, as 
another member pointed out, it's his server, his bandwidth.  He could 
get fed up with all of the bitching and take his marbles and go home.

James

Bob Shannon wrote:

>Well said!
>
>Lets not foolishly try to hold Jay responsible for the actions of the list
>members (pun intended).
>



From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 16 10:22:28 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
	<005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
	<009701c1ccc1$6c869bc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15507.28996.841961.567826@phaduka.neurotica.com>


  I feel the need to chime in with some support for Jay.  This is a
high-traffic list with a lot of recipients, which surely takes a
nontrivial amount of bandwidth and system resources to host...people
shouldn't lose sight of that fact.  I run a couple of fairly large
mailing lists myself; something like this isn't a "set it and forget
it" thing...Spam is the least of the problems, most of the time.
People with crappy network connections whose mail gets backed up and
queued, Windows programs that screw up everything in sight when moving
mail around, twenty-line messages turning into 50Kbytes due to rampant
Microsoft HTMLization bogging down the mail server, etc etc etc.  It's
a pain in the ass, and it takes a certain amount of babysitting to
keep things running smoothly.

  Jay does a fine job.  He may not have started this list, but he runs
it now...and that counts for a lot.

  I hate spam as much as anyone.  Actually, I hate spam a lot MORE than
most for various reasons.  But guess what...My mailer has a "delete"
function, and I actually know how to use it!  Wow, what a concept.

  I know, I know..."but spam slows down my net connection!"  If your net
connection sucks so badly that a little (or a lot) of spam bogs it
down, then get something faster.  There's no real excuse in this day
and age.  Spam blows dog, there's no question about it...but it's a
fact of life on the internet today.  Everyone should fight it whenever
and wherever they can, but you WILL get spam if you have an email
address.  The sooner people learn to deal with that, the happier
everyone will be.

  Further...there are lots of off-topic conversations on this mailing
list.  I take part in many of them, so I'm as guilty as anyone.  But
you know what?  Humans are social animals, and this list is a social
thing.  Many of you are my friends.  If there's an off-topic
discussion here that you don't want to take part in, well, use that
magical "delete" key...Every mailer has one.

  In other words...if anyone here has a life that's so utterly perfect
that spam and off-topic discussions can offset the friendship,
comeradery, education, and other classiccmp benefits, I'll swap lives
with you any day of the week.

  Sheesh.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From Mzthompson at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 10:26:28 2002
From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: OT: Memory issues
Message-ID: <169.a5f995b.29c4cc34@aol.com>

I say OT because some of this applies to newer machines, but I
thought it might me worth sharing.

I was in a tinkering mood yesterday.  I had recently pulled the 256 mb
(three dinky DIMMS) from a Pentium II and put in two 256 mb sticks.
My motherboard docs state a max of 512 mb, but now I got a spare memory
socket and could not resist.  I stuck another 32 mb in and fired it up.
The BIOS self test ran OK, and it booted to DOS find.  But when I brought
Microslop Windoze 95, I learned the true meaning of Windoze.  You could
click on the start button, take a drink of coffee, light up a smoke, and
maybe, just maybe, the start menu would appear by the time you did that.
A whole new meaning to the word slow.

Needless to say, I pulled the 32 mb.  Windoze returned to its 'normal'
speed.

Not content to stop there, I decided to up the size of the ramdisk from
16 mb to 32 mb.  Since I boot to the DOS prompt, it was easy to catch the
error stating invalid ramdisk parameter.  So I took it back to 16 mb and
starting incrementing it.  I got all the way to 30 mb with no problems,
or so I thought.  I had only booted to DOS, and not brought up Win95
during the time.  With a 30 mb ramdisk I brought it up.  My display settings
were changed and the display adapter was complaining.  I returned the
ramdisk to 16 mb and all returned to normal.

I found nothing on a specific limit on a ramdisk in any docs I looked
at.  I have used a ramdisk since my XT days.  Now it is almost like they
don't want us to know about it.

Any thoughts?

----------------------------------------
I also have been trying to add some memory to an old Gateway 486/33 machine
I use for utility things.  It already has 16 mb.  I've tried several 
combinations of SIMMS all meeting GW requirements (36 bit parity 70 ns).
It comes down to no matter what combination I put in, nor how I set the
memory dip switches, it won't recognize anything beyond 16 mb.  I have
the manual of this beast, and it clearly states it is expandable to 64 mb.


----------------------------------------
And finally, I was confused by the recent posting on the DEC 3000/300.
The reason was that someone handed me a bag of DEC SIMMS some time back
and I thought they were for a 3000 but the descriptions in the recent
posting dod not jive with what I had.  The ones I have are 100 pin,
10 chip, 70ns and are a 4 mb module with room for another 4 mb on the
back.  It would seem that mine are for the 3000/400 and maybe higher.


Mike

From dittman at dittman.net  Sat Mar 16 10:30:56 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:27 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <005701c1ccfd$aaa33760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 16, 2002 08:17:19 AM
Message-ID: <200203161630.g2GGUuQ12095@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Speaking of the Xerox 820 ... I've got a little daughterboard that was made by
> a local company, the purpose of which was to introduce a 179x where the 1771
> lives.  With the addition of some software I don't have, it makes the thing
> double-density (MFM) capable.  It even has a wire with an "EZ-Hook" for
> attaching to a parallel port bit, though I don't know which one.  
> 
> With less than a week's effort, I could find this thing, but it would take a
> concentrated effort of a month or so to find the one-sheet document that went
> with it.

I'd definitely be interested in this.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From zmerch at 30below.com  Sat Mar 16 10:32:50 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Doc may have mentioned these words:

>  As far as Jay's performance running the list, I'd like to make two
>observations -
>
>  Unrestricted SPAM has been a very live topic for six weeks.  I would
>normally expect the List Operator to at least comment on feasibility of
>the various proposals, and on the steps involved for the proposed
>volunteers.  I didn't see anything at all.

Not to sound like a prick, but you mightn't have looked all that hard... He
emailed the list just prior to 1 Mar 2002 (that's when I received a reply
from his request) asking for advice about what to do WRT spam & keeping the
list more open for nonsubscribers...

>  Today is March 15, 2002.  The latest post available from the online
>archives is dated November 30, 2001.  That's a hell of a lag.

He might have one hell of a job... Lord knows I'm a wee bit behind in my
'hobby-based duties' WRT my listserver & other things. At least it's up &
running - methinks we should count our blessings to have a decent uptime,
nice, hi-bandwidth list to discuss our ancient friends *for Free*...

Jay, I know how thankless this 'free labor' can be, so lemme be the first
person to make it a little less thankless:

Thank You! :-)

And always, if there's anything I can do to help, just holler. I'll do
anything I can to help.

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From dittman at dittman.net  Sat Mar 16 10:34:14 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To:  from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 16, 2002 08:22:18 AM
Message-ID: <200203161634.g2GGYED12119@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Back then people had multiple user accounts too and would add feedback to
> their own accounts, and someone could also add neg feedback even if they'd
> never dealt with the seller. I'm glad they made it sales oriented but I'm
> yes/no on the thing with repeat customer's feedback not generating a higher
> rating.

I can understand the one account/one vote limit as that does
prevent people from selling junk to themselves under different
accounts just to bump up their rating.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From univac2 at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 16 10:59:12 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cd03$b1aebf60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

I would just like to point out that there have been between 20 and 30
replies to this, and the topic only came up a few days ago. It would take
weeks for that many SPAM posts to come accross here. It seems to me like
we're doing a much better job of cluttering the list than the SPAMmers are.

--
Owen Robertson


From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sat Mar 16 11:14:34 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
References: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay> <5.0.0.25.0.20020316073930.022eaff8@pc>
Message-ID: <005901c1cd0e$65c24030$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

> At 09:30 PM 3/15/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> >I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
> >how it is run.

Interesting to me that Sellam shoud say that he doesn't want me to be the
one to decide solely how the list is run. There is a rather amusing footnote
to that which I really didn't want to share. But....

At the time of the last major political flame war on the list, I received
tons of email from many people DEMANDING that I ban Sellam. I refused, on
that occasion, for reasons that I am not sure I can now recall. That is the
only time I have ever gone against the majority will of the list. So Sellam,
you are here only BECAUSE I am the one to decide solely how it is run.

Nuff said, lets get back to the list topic please

Jay West



From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 11:24:55 2002
From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
References: 
Message-ID: <3C937FE7.59C3D590@tinyworld.co.uk>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > >> LK201:

> I've seen 2. Both had membrane switches, but with different
> electronics. One using an 8051, the other using a 6805 (IIRC). The
> 8051 version is the common one over here.

Hmm...the exact opposite of my sampling! We still use significant
numbers of terminals at work, and most of the LK201s we have are the
CMOS green LED models, with Motorola 68HC05 controllers. These later
ones draw only about 100 mA with all LEDs and buzzer going, compared
with 350 mA for the pre-CMOS versions.

- Paul

From marvin at rain.org  Sat Mar 16 11:26:21 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled
References:  <003001c1cd04$7a1d7a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C93803D.FFCB9CF1@rain.org>


John Allain wrote:
> 
> Request for quotation:
> 
> If I wanted a, say, 10+ACI-x10+ACI- pcb made to order,
> what would I expect to pay and what format
> drawings would the maker take?

You need a little more information (unless those numbers which I don't
recognize give the required information); board material (probably
FR-4), board size, single sided, double sided, mulitilayer, plated
through holes, solder mask, silkscreen, approximate number of holes,
number of hole sizes, smallest hole size, any gold plating, easy or
"complex" board outline, turnaround time, and of course the quantity you
are after.

Most PC shops these days will take the Gerber files but you need to ask
the shop that will do the work what they require or would prefer.

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 16 11:30:37 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled
References:  <003001c1cd04$7a1d7a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C93813D.70D6D558@jetnet.ab.ca>

John Allain wrote:
> 
> Request for quotation:
> 
> If I wanted a, say, 10+ACI-x10+ACI- pcb made to order,
> what would I expect to pay and what format
> drawings would the maker take?
> 
> John A.

There are several PCB fabrication places on the web. As ball park figure
call it $75 for set up and about $1 a square inch just to process a
board.
Most places require a 2 board minimum, and use CAD layout and drill
files.
Other options of course cost more because of manual labor. To have a PCB
board made from a schematic costs about $3 a pin to get the cad layout
made.
The best free pcb layout program I have found is easytrax for dos.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 16 11:36:20 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
Message-ID: <017201c1cd11$1696bc40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

I have no problem with you, Jay.
I have some problems with off-topicism, but I blame
the senders since there are no solutions to try that
don't require something like a "moderate-read-everything"
kind of effort, which is ridiculous.  It does seem that foolish
OTicism is down (Thanks everyone) but semi-useless 
OTicism might be up, so we aren't perfect.

John A.



From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sat Mar 16 11:52:58 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cd04$7a1d7a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: 

	www.4pcb.com/33each has a deal of any board up to 10+ACI- x 15+ACI-, double sided, plated through holes, solder mask on both sides, and silk screen on one side for +ACQ-33.

	Files need to be in Gerber format (they may support others, I'm not aware of it).  Any of the free or lite CAD packages will produce files in the format you need.

	--John

+AD4- -----Original Message-----
+AD4- From: owner-classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org
+AD4- +AFs-mailto:owner-classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org+AF0-On Behalf Of John Allain
+AD4- Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 11:06 AM
+AD4- To: classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org
+AD4- Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled
+AD4- 
+AD4- 
+AD4- Request for quotation:
+AD4- 
+AD4- If I wanted a, say, 10+ACI-x10+ACI- pcb made to order,
+AD4- what would I expect to pay and what format
+AD4- drawings would the maker take?
+AD4- 
+AD4- John A.
+AD4- 
+AD4- 


From jhfine at idirect.com  Sat Mar 16 12:07:17 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
References: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay> <5.0.0.25.0.20020316073930.022eaff8@pc> <005901c1cd0e$65c24030$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <3C9389D5.43489B6A@idirect.com>

>Jay West wrote:

> > > At 09:30 PM 3/15/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > >I don't want you to be the one to decide solely
> > >how it is run.
> Interesting to me that Sellam shoud say that he doesn't want me to be the
> one to decide solely how the list is run. There is a rather amusing footnote
> to that which I really didn't want to share. But....
> At the time of the last major political flame war on the list, I received
> tons of email from many people DEMANDING that I ban Sellam. I refused, on
> that occasion, for reasons that I am not sure I can now recall. That is the
> only time I have ever gone against the majority will of the list. So Sellam,
> you are here only BECAUSE I am the one to decide solely how it is run.
> Nuff said, lets get back to the list topic please

Jerome Fine replies:

That is what life is all about - you win some, you lose some.  (Humour!)

Actually, I am pleased you refused to ban Sellam - since I suspect that
having him is more of an advantage overall.  In fact, a big advantage.

In closing, I also vote that Jay has the final decision on how to run
the list - since Jay has always shown reasonable judgement in the past.

And last, but again probably most, thank you Jay.


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 12:11:36 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE and how to question
Message-ID: <18b.4e90555.29c4e4d8@aol.com>

I, too, appreciate the work Jay has done on the list. I use this list as an 
example of a large well managed community. Even though there has been a 
slight increase of Spam recently it is way, way, way below any other list. We 
generate more Spam about the Spam than the originators. 

I am not in favor of closing the list just like I am not in favor of closing 
the community. Some times moderation is necessary but in IMHO less is best. I 
believe in self moderation, something we seem to be falling down on lately. 
If we do not reply to or about the Spam it will be hardly noticeable. And 
here I am adding to it.

I would rather learn about how to attack Spam at it's source. I am learning 
how to decipher the mail headers. I need to figure out how to automate 
complaint letters. From what I have seen the direct complaint to the service 
provider works best.

Links to any tutorials would be appreciated, as would recommendations on SW.

Paxton
Astoria, OR

PS From what I have seen most of the Spam the list has gotten is very 
international in it's source and not traceable back to a single source.

The FBI would like copies of the Nigerian Scam emails. They are starting to 
take it more seriously.

From lists at subatomix.com  Sat Mar 16 12:18:52 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net>
References: 
 <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net> <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net>
Message-ID: <133639769670.20020316121852@subatomix.com>

Thank you, Jay, for continually providing this list with the resources it
needs to function, all at no cost to the list's subscribers. I am very
grateful that this forum exists. I am confident that you are taking adequate
steps to resolve the spam issue.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 12:25:42 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> The best free pcb layout program I have found is easytrax for dos.

I like PADS-PCB, but the free version is(/was?) limited to about 30
integrated components...

-dq

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sat Mar 16 12:27:09 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 	<005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>	<009701c1ccc1$6c869bc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <15507.28996.841961.567826@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E7D.4010402@dragonsweb.org>

Dave McGuire wrote:

>   Further...there are lots of off-topic conversations on this mailing
> list.  I take part in many of them, so I'm as guilty as anyone.  But
> you know what?  Humans are social animals, and this list is a social
> thing.  Many of you are my friends.  If there's an off-topic
> discussion here that you don't want to take part in, well, use that
> magical "delete" key...Every mailer has one.
> 

I am in no way, shape, or form a "people" person, but I can tolerate 
socializing if it doesn't interfere with other things. However, if any 
of the comments about off-topic conversations I'm seeing here by you and 
others intend any reference to my remarks to Sellam about Nigerian 
scams, please note that my initial comment was intended purely as a 
sympathetic nod to allay any possible concerns that I somehow support 
spam just because I don't get bent out of shape about it. I find this to 
be a common misperception, no matter how obviously fallacious.

This was completely aside from my legitimate on-topic discussion with 
him regarding a matter of substantive, not just topical, relevance to 
the list, making the basically same points as everyone else is. I was 
trying to terminate the extraneous line of discussion, too. This is 
perfectly evident if anyone cares to review the posts. If I had intended 
to start an off-topic thread, I would have edited the subject line and 
done so.

I have no quarrel with Sellam, either. If he wants to start his own 
list, that's fine with me, and I wish him well. I might even subscribe.
He probably should, regardless, since VCF probably warrants it's own 
list if it doesn't already have one.

I just don't see that there's any pressing need to change *this* list.

jbdigriz


From marvin at rain.org  Sat Mar 16 12:30:08 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
References: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay> <5.0.0.25.0.20020316073930.022eaff8@pc> <005901c1cd0e$65c24030$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <3C938F30.6848A43A@rain.org>


Jay West wrote:
> 
> Interesting to me that Sellam shoud say that he doesn't want me to be the
> one to decide solely how the list is run. There is a rather amusing footnote
> to that which I really didn't want to share. But....

My last post on all of this:

I think all of us are somewhat, er, maybe opinionated :) and Sellam is
no exception. But I think it is also important to realize that VCF was
started as a result of discussion on this list. Sellam didn't just talk
about it and say, gee ... what a neat idea. He went out and did
something! and put on VCF 1.0, and ...

If I recall correctly, Jay *volunteered* to host this listserver when
the UOW decided not to host it anymore. He has also *volunteered* to
make available his bandwidth available for members that need it (at no
cost to us).

We all have strengths and weaknesses, and we will accomplish a LOT more
by working together. There is a tremendous amount of talent and
knowledge (and generosity!) here on this list; let's take advantage of
it instead of knocking it.

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 16 12:46:10 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: Re: List Management - RESPONSE (James B. DiGriz)
References: 
	<005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
	<009701c1ccc1$6c869bc0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
	<15507.28996.841961.567826@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<3C938E7D.4010402@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <15507.37618.904764.29378@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 16, James B. DiGriz wrote:
> >   Further...there are lots of off-topic conversations on this mailing
> > list.  I take part in many of them, so I'm as guilty as anyone.  But
> > you know what?  Humans are social animals, and this list is a social
> > thing.  Many of you are my friends.  If there's an off-topic
> > discussion here that you don't want to take part in, well, use that
> > magical "delete" key...Every mailer has one.
> 
> I am in no way, shape, or form a "people" person, but I can tolerate 
> socializing if it doesn't interfere with other things. However, if any 
> of the comments about off-topic conversations I'm seeing here by you and 
> others intend any reference to my remarks to Sellam about Nigerian 
> scams, please note that my initial comment was intended purely as a 
> sympathetic nod to allay any possible concerns that I somehow support 
> spam just because I don't get bent out of shape about it. I find this to 
> be a common misperception, no matter how obviously fallacious.

  It was not my intention to single you out, and I apologize if it came
out that way.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 16 12:58:30 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9395D6.FDF1E1B1@jetnet.ab.ca>

John Chris Wren wrote:
> 
>         www.4pcb.com/33each has a deal of any board up to 10+ACI- x 15+ACI-, double sided, plated through holes, solder mask on both sides, and silk screen on one side for +ACQ-33.
> 
>         Files need to be in Gerber format (they may support others, I'm not aware of it).  Any of the free or lite CAD packages will produce files in the format you need.

I am not sure just how to read "10+ACI- x 15+ACI-" but all the 'lite' or
'demo' software
I have seen has a pin limit of 500 pins or a size limit of 4" x 3".
Since right now I am on a shoe string and doing a PCB layout the only
usable ones I have seen are Easytrax for dos, PCB? for linux/unix.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From djenner at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 16 13:16:54 2002
From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: SPAM (was Re: List Management)
References: <18b.4e90555.29c4e4d8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C939A26.122505E@earthlink.net>

Take a look at http://www.spamcop.net.

Individuals can use this, or maybe the whole list could be piped
through it.  I doubt that it would work efficiently for the whole
list, because the SPAM to the list is a few unique, targeted
emails.

When I used it, spamcop caught about 50% of the spam to my accounts.
I now pipe everything through my earthlink account, where they have
"Spaminator", which is about 90-95% effective.

Dave

Innfogra@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I would rather learn about how to attack Spam at it's source. I am learning
> how to decipher the mail headers. I need to figure out how to automate
> complaint letters. From what I have seen the direct complaint to the service
> provider works best.
> 
> Links to any tutorials would be appreciated, as would recommendations on SW.
> 
-- 
David C. Jenner
djenner@earthlink.net

From drdidlittl at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 13:18:01 2002
From: drdidlittl at yahoo.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
Message-ID: <20020316191801.2240.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com>

  Bleh.  MDR's mailserver is down, and I can't get in to fix it till
Monday.
  Well, the Altos 580 ended up costing me $5 and "a future favor". 
Tyler couldn't find any of the floppy disks for it.
  It looks fine inside, except that the case fan was unplugged from the
PSU.  After finding the power header & plugging it in, I understand
that.  
It does speak VT100, on RS232 port "JC" (Thanks, Andreas!) and boots to
"Boot Monitor v7.03".  Passes system tests, and attempts to boot from
the hard drive.  The activity light on the floppy drive comes on and
stays on.
  I don't think the hard drive, a CMI CM-5619, is powering up at all.
If it is it's incredibly quiet....
  Anyway, I don't have any way to test the system. I did find an
archive of MP/M II for it, but the zip file isn't in any image format.

  Does anyone have the install disks, and the Diagnostics/utilities
disk, or disk images?  And a way to create the disks on a Linux box? 
They are DD/DS floppies, right?
  Does this thing care what MFM disk it has?

  More junkyard fun....

        Doc

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jfoust at threedee.com  Sat Mar 16 13:52:27 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
In-Reply-To: <005901c1cd0e$65c24030$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
References: <005001c1cc92$7ad119a0$0101a8c0@jay>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20020316073930.022eaff8@pc>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020316134714.022dedb0@pc>

At 11:14 AM 3/16/2002 -0600, Jay West wrote:
>At the time of the last major political flame war on the list, I received
>tons of email from many people DEMANDING that I ban Sellam.

Smell as I mail.  I am all smiles.  I am small isle.  
Male, slim sail.  A male, ill miss.  I am a slim sell.  

I wouldn't want to see Sellam banned from the ranch.

- John


From tosteve at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 14:01:05 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Free books in Irvine, CA - mostly Apple IIc/e
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020316200105.72058.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Chris,
Book is in the mail!

Please send $2.00 to:

Steven Stengel
99 Colony Way
Aliso Viejo CA 92656

Cash is probably the easiest for both of us.
Thanks, I hope you like it!
Steve


--- Chris  wrote:
> >14. Apple IIc Scribe User's Manual
> 
> Is this the manual for the thermal AppleScribe
> printer? (sounds like it) 
> If it is, can you toss it in the mail for me?
> Priority is fine with me 
> (so you can get a free envelope or box, or
> whatever... it isn't a fragile 
> item so a simple priority mail pouch will work
> well).
> 
> I can mail you cash, or stamps, or send paypal, or
> whatever you want to 
> cover postage.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From mhstein at canada.com  Sat Mar 16 14:22:54 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
Message-ID: <01C1CCFE.763922E0@mse-d03>

Another vote of thanks & support for Jay; the solution
to the essential problem of wasted bandwidth lies with
the rest of us and not him.

And Sellam, if you can't refrain from needlessly adding
to the pile, you could at least try to be a little less
rude & not use profanity.

mike


From donm at cts.com  Sat Mar 16 14:27:34 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7A2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> > At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
> > >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
> > >out the picture at:
> > >
> > >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
> > >
> > >and see if you recognize it?
> >
> > That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big board.
> > The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8" floppy
> > drive) and was usually a kit.
>
> If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...

That is certainly possible, Doug.  However, the one that they were
selling a while back (for $9.95, IIRC) was for the Xerox 1800 terminal
less "laptop".  Whether it is directly compatible with the 810, I do not
know.
						 - don
> If gone now, I have a copy...
>
> -dq
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 14:37:55 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To:  from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 15, 2 09:30:59 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2433 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/50de6281/attachment.ksh
From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sat Mar 16 14:47:57 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: vcf@vintage.org - does not work...
References: 
Message-ID: <00a701c1cd2c$3481a010$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

Just trying to help.... I routinely use a hotmail account for a myraid of
testing procedures with my own smtp and pop servers. I have noticed
particularly over the past month that hotmail seems to be having sporadic
problems of not receiving outside mail at all (a totally silent path to the
bit-bucket), and delivering outbound mail late (subjective term), many times
24 hours later. So, you might want to use some other account than hotmail to
get a valid test Sellam.

Jay West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: vcf@vintage.org - does not work...


> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, steve wrote:
>
> > Hmmm, cannot send mail to vcf@vintage.org, it gets
> > rejected...
>
> Hmm, is anyone else having this problem?  I'm running a test right now and
> so far a message from a Hotmail account hasn't shown up.  Strange...
>
> Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
>
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer
Festival
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
>
>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
>
>
>



From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 15:52:54 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


>   Does anyone have the install disks, and the Diagnostics/utilities
> disk, or disk images?  And a way to create the disks on a Linux box? 
> They are DD/DS floppies, right?

My former employer ended up giving his to a local
guy who fixes radios, PCs, controllers, hell anything
(he and I did an embedded systems project once); I just
got off the phone, he remebers the system, knows its
"there somewhere", as I also recall seeing it there
as well as the disks in a dark maroon Dysan disk box.

He's a bit busy at the moment, but promised to start
a search for the disks when he can.

>   Does this thing care what MFM disk it has?

The CMI hard drive was a total POS. I've got one
from a Zenith Z-150 that works until these *huge*
power resistors on the interface board heat up
too hot, then it stops working. I'm not sure
whether they're part of the drive motor circuitry
or the head motor assembly, but ISTR suspecting
the latter.

The drive is available free, for cost of shipping...
if you're even vaguely interested in a failing
hard drive. However, you might be able to combine
parts from them long enough to use one while you
transition to a more reliable old drive (assuming
of course Chris finds the software).

-dq

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 16 15:57:09 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7AD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> > boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> 
> That is certainly possible, Doug.  However, the one that they were
> selling a while back (for $9.95, IIRC) was for the Xerox 1800 terminal
> less "laptop".  Whether it is directly compatible with the 810, I do not
> know.

This purchase was circa 1985...

But that's the right price... I'll just have to look at
the disks when I get home again...

-dq

From swtpc6800 at attbi.com  Sat Mar 16 16:00:13 2002
From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
References: +ADw-m16m2gb-000IyXC+AEA-p850ug1+AD4- +ADw-003001c1cd04+ACQ-7a1d7a40+ACQ-8a0101ac+AEA-ibm23xhr06+AD4-
Message-ID: <002b01c1cd35$f3db4980$9865fea9@downstairs>

I have used ExpressPCB and the free layout software on two projects. The
layout software is for Windows and does double sided boards only. This
software emails the design to ExpressPCB so it is not general purpose.

If a two layer board will meet your needs I recommend ExpressPCB. Their
service is fast and the software is easy to use.
http://www.expresspcb.com

Two 10 by 10 boards with no solder mask are +ACQ-230 (+ACQ-70 setup, +ACQ-80 per board)
with a 3 day delivery.
Two 10 by 10 boards with silk screen and solder mask are +ACQ-370 (+ACQ-310 setup,
+ACQ-27 per board) with a 10 day delivery

Boards up to 5.25 by 4 with silk screen and solder mask are +ACQ-229 for 5
boards.

The company also offers a full featured PCB board production service. Your
boards are actually manufactured here.
http://www.pcbexpress.com/

I have access to commercial grade design software (PADS PowerPCB) but it is
very difficult to get up to speed on the full featured software if you are
doing one design a year. If you mess up on producing your output files your
boards are junk. It is difficult to make operator errors in the ExpressPCB
software. (You can still route the trace to the wrong pin.)

You can see my projects here:
http://home.attbi.com/+AH4-swtpc6800/

Michael Holley
www.swtpc.com

----- Original Message -----
From: +ACI-John Allain+ACI- +ADw-allain+AEA-panix.com+AD4-
To: +ADw-classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org+AD4-
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:06 AM
Subject: RFQ: boards drilled and undrilled


+AD4- Request for quotation:
+AD4-
+AD4- If I wanted a, say, 10+ACI-x10+ACI- pcb made to order,
+AD4- what would I expect to pay and what format
+AD4- drawings would the maker take?
+AD4-
+AD4- John A.
+AD4-
+AD4-



From rhb57 at vol.com  Sat Mar 16 16:10:48 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: elobby on ebay
In-Reply-To: <200203161634.g2GGYED12119@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 

Crap you found me out! :-)

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Dittman
=> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 10:34 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: elobby on ebay
=> 
=> 
=> > Back then people had multiple user accounts too and would add 
=> feedback to
=> > their own accounts, and someone could also add neg feedback 
=> even if they'd
=> > never dealt with the seller. I'm glad they made it sales 
=> oriented but I'm
=> > yes/no on the thing with repeat customer's feedback not 
=> generating a higher
=> > rating.
=> 
=> I can understand the one account/one vote limit as that does
=> prevent people from selling junk to themselves under different
=> accounts just to bump up their rating.
=> -- 
=> Eric Dittman
=> dittman@dittman.net
=> Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
=> ---
=> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
=> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
=> Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002
=> 
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sat Mar 16 16:26:02 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
In-Reply-To: <3C9395D6.FDF1E1B1@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 

	I have no idea how the double quotes that were used to indicate inches (10
inches by 15 inches) were turned into +ACI-.  I've never seen before, and I
believe it was sent as plain text, although I am not 100% sure (since I have
already deleted the message).

	I use Protel, but I have a registered copy, so I can't tell you what
packages are available.  I thought that EasyTrax or one of the others had an
option where you could buy 1000 pins or so for $19 or $29.  At any rate, it
seemed pretty inexpensive.

	You haven't indicated how many ICs, etc are on the board, only the
dimensions.  Perhaps with a little more information, some better suggestions
could be offered.  Oh, and somewhere I ran across a site that compared the
major CAD packages, along with cost, features, etc.  Perhaps a google.com
search for "PCB layout packages reviews" or something may turn it up.  Once
I had settled on Protel, I pretty much forgot what I knew about the rest.

	--John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 13:59 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: boards drilled and undrilled
>
>
> John Chris Wren wrote:
> >
> >         www.4pcb.com/33each has a deal of any board up to
> 10+ACI- x 15+ACI-, double sided, plated through holes, solder
> mask on both sides, and silk screen on one side for +ACQ-33.
> >
> >         Files need to be in Gerber format (they may support
> others, I'm not aware of it).  Any of the free or lite CAD
> packages will produce files in the format you need.
>
> I am not sure just how to read "10+ACI- x 15+ACI-" but all the 'lite' or
> 'demo' software
> I have seen has a pin limit of 500 pins or a size limit of 4" x 3".
> Since right now I am on a shoe string and doing a PCB layout the only
> usable ones I have seen are Easytrax for dos, PCB? for linux/unix.
>
> --
> Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 16 16:29:51 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <3C937FE7.59C3D590@tinyworld.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Mar 16, 2 05:24:55 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 580 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/15b8acdc/attachment.ksh
From cube1 at charter.net  Sat Mar 16 16:32:27 2002
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Clipper Collectors? (Intergraph Interpro)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316163217.03cb78b8@cirithi>

I have one, for old times sake.

Jay Jaeger

At 03:47 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Anyone on here collecting Intergraph Interpro workstations?
>
>--
>Kris Kirby, KE4AHR          | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
>   | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL.
>-------------------------------------------------------
>"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1@charter.net



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 17:01:01 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
In-Reply-To: <002b01c1cd35$f3db4980$9865fea9@downstairs>
Message-ID: <20020316230101.91125.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Holley  wrote:
> You can see my projects here:
> http://home.attbi.com/+AH4-swtpc6800/

Something, somewhere, stomped on your message and, I think, removed
"odd" characters and replaced them with some sort of encoding.  Can
you re-post your project URL?  I'd like to see what comes out of
ExpressPCB.  I've considered using them, but I think most of my
stuff is too ambitious to fit their size guidelines (not because there
are too many parts, or too many holes, but a replacement board to
match a missing one is too large - 6"x9" for one recent project I
soldered by hand - an LED scoreboard).

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From mranalog at attbi.com  Sat Mar 16 17:13:17 2002
From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: List Management
Message-ID: <3C93D18D.478A51BC@attbi.com>

 Sellam Ismail wrote:
> Gee, am I that bad?  Sorry I have an opinion.

  The trouble ALWAYS starts when someone posts an
opinion to the list. An opinion is not a question,
or an answer. It's not news or information. It's not
a recollection and it's not history. It's not on topic.
 Opinions are unavoidable, but self control (and
counting to 50,000) can really cut down on the
noise.
  --Doug
=========================================
Doug Coward                

Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center
http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog
Analogrechner, calculateur analogique,
calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar,
komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar,
kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer.
=========================================

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:00 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
In-Reply-To: Re: boards drilled and undrilled (Ethan Dicks)
References: <002b01c1cd35$f3db4980$9865fea9@downstairs>
	<20020316230101.91125.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15507.55188.649960.757907@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 16, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> I'd like to see what comes out of
> ExpressPCB.  I've considered using them, but I think most of my
> stuff is too ambitious to fit their size guidelines (not because there
> are too many parts, or too many holes, but a replacement board to
> match a missing one is too large - 6"x9" for one recent project I
> soldered by hand - an LED scoreboard).

  I've used ExpressPCB...just last week, as a matter of fact.  Their
boards are quite decent, and their service is fast and predictable.

           -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From cube1 at charter.net  Sat Mar 16 17:46:20 2002
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: IBM 7010 Photo (Re: What Computer is This and Who is This Guy?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316172028.03cc3128@cirithi>

To everbody who tried to answer this last fall:  You all got it wrong.  8^)

It happens to be an IBM 7010, a close relative of the IBM 1410.  This is 
the first Internet picture I have ever seen of a 7010.

The 1410 and the 7010 are the same architecture: the 1410 was built out of 
a logic family similar to RTL used on the 1401.  The 7010 was built out of 
ECL and DTL like a 7090 or 7094.  The pull-handle on the cabinet and the 
precise layout of the lines on the console is making me say 7010.

I am 100% certain.  I worked with a 1410 and have written a simulator, 
which I have not yet released, and I have a picture of a 7010 in a manual 
sent to me by Nick Spalding.

Nice picture.  I'd like to see the original so I could scan it in at a 
higher resolution.

There are other 1410 photos on the internet -- compare them and you will 
see the high degree of similarity, but if you look at the horizontal light 
area above the console you will see the difference between the original 
1415 console for the 1410 and the 1415 Model 2 for the 7010.

Compare it to: http://ukcc.uky.edu/%7Eukccinfo.291/  (this 1410 had 7330 
tape drives -- they are shorter)
And: http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/BRL61-ibm1401.html  (scroll down to the 
IBM 1410 and then click on the photo link)
Or, see a watercolor painting of a 1410 at : 
http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/ibm1410/ibm1410.htm

The tape drives are IBM 729's.  Probably IBM 729 II's or IV's

The CPU cabinets are to the left of the leftmost tape drive.

The Console is the 7010 console:  Specifically the IBM 1415 Model 2.    It 
reads:

                              Data
      IBM   7010        Processing
                              System

I have no idea who the "guy" is.

Jay Jaeger


At 11:34 AM 10/25/2001 -0700, Dan McDonald wrote:
>Here's a picture from 1966 of an IBM computer at the IBM computing center 
>on Manhattan (New York City, New York USA).  The text for the photo says 
>that the computer is being used to make a payroll calculation.
>
>Visible are 4 big-fridge-sized reel-reel tape devices, the console with 
>operator seated at it, and some other things in the background.
>
>What's the computer model?  Does anybody know who this guy (operator) is/was?
>
>Just a neat photo.
>
>It's about a 150k jpg file at this url:
>
>http://www.sover.net/~danm/computer_room.jpg
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1@charter.net



From jpero at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 16 17:57:18 2002
From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips 
In-Reply-To: <000001c1cda8$7b373520$85867ad5@soho>
Message-ID: <20020317045423.BGVQ19732.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron>

> From:          "John Salmon" 
> To:            
> Subject:       Re: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips 
> Date:          Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:38:27 -0800
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@classiccmp.org

> Re Where does the 600v come from?
> 
> The SMPSU in question is probably of the 'Flyback' or of the 'Forward Converter' type. In either case the converter O/P Tx primary winding is connected between the +300vdc rail and the collector of t> 
> During the conducting period of the switching transistor (lets call it TR4 - it often is) the potential across TR4 is very low, a few volts. Hence virtually all of the 300vdc appears across the prima> 
> When TR4 is driven into its 'off' period Lenz's Law causes  the primary inductance of Tx1 to try to maintain the primary current. The resultant induced emf (due to collapse of primary flux) now produ> 
> Therefore the collector of Tr4 is now 600v +tve to the 0v (-tve) rail ofv the PSU. Don't touch its Heatsink while the PSU is switched on. Also allow 4 or 5 mins for the voltages to bleed down after s> 
> Hope this is clear and useful - it is 3.30am in the morning here in UK.
> Regards

Lot of comments on mine:  :-)  boy that small one snowballed into big 
paper. :-P

That helped!   Also I have comments on capacitor bleed down after 
unplugged from outlet.  Some didn't have bleed down resistor(s), 
required by safety in peecee PSUs I think but some did have 
bleed down resistor fail or simply didn't exist.  How I know?  I got 
bit by charged main filter capacitor in servicing modern JVC TV.  Btw 
that one didn't have that bleed down resistor even JVC is decent 
brand!  Now I test for that for any reason and flatten it off with 
15k ohms resistor.  :-P

My story:
One hand rests on certain area circuit board -  BUZZ buzz buzz! 
AAAAGGGGGGH!  In loud, shrill voice to make singers proud.   DC felt 
like buzz like I get with raw AC from that outlets.  That capacitor 
didn't discharge at all even after a week.  That's very good quality 
capcitor, JVC!  :-)

This reminds me on this high voltages in both monitors and TVs.
Give BIG due respect to high voltage in any monitors and tv, biggest 
ones is around 35,000 or so volts.  Enough energy on HV to kick like 
mule and hurts like hell but not kill you.  The danger is your hand 
or part of your body fly away and hit something else (injury or get 
cut.)  

High voltage is used to impart focused electrons emitted from 
electron guns to high speed against phosrphous (sp?) that glows when 
hit.  Tube bell is made of painted graphite (that characteric dark 
grey) and glue binder on two parallel plates construction with glass 
as dielectric basically tiny capacitor to smooth HV pulses (more of 
sprikes from the flyback coil, inner surface has HV, outside surface 
on that tube is at ground potiential for HV circuit at few volts in 
respect to true frame ground especially in TVs because it does not 
have true ground design because of two prong plug while mesuring 
voltages on that circuit board, for that reason, I always use 
circuit board ground not that grounding wires across tube 
bell.  

In compact Macs, tech sheets warns DO not to use dead short to 
discharge tube!  Properly done requires homemade tool or proper tool 
that has resistor to bleed out tube's stored HV gradually.  Shorting 
out that tube with a noisy bang using piece of wire, this burns out 
the chips on that logic board, seen this happen before.  Also this is 
preferred on everything else since the anode well on the inside 
conductive coating connection may burn open by high 
current then tube becomes junk.  $$$.

When off or unplugged still have HV charge present for few 
days to a week before that tube becomes discharged.

Freshly charged tube has enough punch to jump a inch or two gap - 
LOUD SNAP.  And, one more thing, after manual 
discharged, tubes always regains some charge after few minutes, don't 
be surprised by a tiny zap or see tiny spark.  :-)

Cheers,

Wizard

PS:  Even good monitor or tv, sometimes HV leak out and bit you if 
you're careless.  I saw this happen when tech rested that grounded 
screwdriver gently on glass near edge of suction cup - CRACK!  Tech 
then looked surprised turned to me and I said oooh.

PSS:  Snapping, crackling, hissing noise is sign of HV leak or 
overvoltage fault this one must be serviced NOW because of 
HV had skyrocketed due to component failure somewhere and excessive 
X-ray emssions limiter or trip had failed also.
 
> John Salmon
> Q&R Engineer
> 

From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Sat Mar 16 18:08:42 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: vcf@vintage.org - does not work...
In-Reply-To:  from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 16, 2 12:24:08 pm"
Message-ID: <200203170008.QAA07486@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> > Hmmm, cannot send mail to vcf@vintage.org, it gets
> > rejected...
> 
> Hmm, is anyone else having this problem?  I'm running a test right now and
> so far a message from a Hotmail account hasn't shown up.  Strange...

Yes, I got it last week. It said 'relaying not permitted'

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Vote anarchist! ------------------------------------------------------------

From drdidlittl at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 18:33:52 2002
From: drdidlittl at yahoo.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <20020317003352.10375.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Quebbeman  wrote:
> 
> >   Does anyone have the install disks, and the Diagnostics/utilities
> > disk, or disk images?  And a way to create the disks on a Linux
> box? 
> > They are DD/DS floppies, right?
> 
> My former employer ended up giving his to a local
> guy who fixes radios, PCs, controllers, hell anything
> (he and I did an embedded systems project once); I just
> got off the phone, he remebers the system, knows its
> "there somewhere", as I also recall seeing it there
> as well as the disks in a dark maroon Dysan disk box.
> 
> He's a bit busy at the moment, but promised to start
> a search for the disks when he can.

  That would be ultra-cool.  What kind of compensation would be in
order, do you think?

> The drive is available free, for cost of shipping...
> if you're even vaguely interested in a failing
> hard drive. However, you might be able to combine
> parts from them long enough to use one while you
> transition to a more reliable old drive (assuming
> of course Chris finds the software).

  I'll file the offer...  I can probably get a comparable drive here a
lot cheaper than we could ship it, if generic MFM will work.  Aren't
ALL CMI drives junk?
  Thanks for the offer, and especially for calling your friend.

        Doc

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jrice at texoma.net  Sat Mar 16 18:51:56 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Test Message
Message-ID: <3C93E8AC.3090805@texoma.net>

Soory for the test, but I haven't got anything from the list all day


From cube1 at charter.net  Sat Mar 16 18:59:30 2002
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: (Fwd) IBM 1401
In-Reply-To: <3C921ECE.4569.2F2987E9@localhost>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316185042.02044448@cirithi>

Suggest you contact Paul Pierce, for starters.

Check out his web site, http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/, particularly 
http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/main.html 
and   http://www.piercefuller.com/oldibm-shadow/

This last link has some 1401 software, and a 1401 simulator (which works at 
least partially, but has not, as far as I know, been thoroughly wrung out).

Jay Jaeger


>------- Forwarded message follows -------
>To:                     hans.franke@mch20.sbs.de
>Subject:                IBM 1401
>Date sent:              Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:45:00 -0800
>From:                   Van Snyder 
>
>
>Hans:
>
>I won't be able to travel to the Vintage Computer Festival Europa.
>
>Does your organization have a mailing list?  I'm looking for IBM 1401
>software, manuals, service drawings, information, ....
>
>If you have a mailing list, can you forward this message?
>
>I'm involved with a historical preservation project (that has nothing to
>do with my employer). I'm hoping to find Autocoder, Cobol, Fortran, RPG,
>Sort 6/7, IOCS, ..., manuals, user-developed applications, the engineering
>drawings that CE's used for field maintenance, or any other IBM 1401
>memorabilia (including equipment!).
>
>Do you have any of this stuff, or know anybody who might?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Van Snyder
>vsnyder@math.jpl.nasa.gov
>
>------- End of forwarded message -------
>
>--
>VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
>http://www.vcfe.org/

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1@charter.net



From swtpc6800 at attbi.com  Sat Mar 16 19:17:42 2002
From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: boards drilled and undrilled
References: <20020316230101.91125.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1cd51$89cd1b10$9865fea9@downstairs>

The character was a tilde (the wavy line)
http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800

Here is another way to specify an ATTBI personal web page.
http://swtpc6800.home.attbi.com

Michael Holley
www.swtpc.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ethan Dicks" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: boards drilled and undrilled


> 
> --- Michael Holley  wrote:
> > You can see my projects here:
> > http://home.attbi.com/+AH4-swtpc6800/
> 
> Something, somewhere, stomped on your message and, I think, removed
> "odd" characters and replaced them with some sort of encoding.  Can
> you re-post your project URL?  I'd like to see what comes out of
> ExpressPCB.  I've considered using them, but I think most of my
> stuff is too ambitious to fit their size guidelines (not because there
> are too many parts, or too many holes, but a replacement board to
> match a missing one is too large - 6"x9" for one recent project I
> soldered by hand - an LED scoreboard).
> 
> -ethan
> 



From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sat Mar 16 19:18:14 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: list problems
Message-ID: <003001c1cd51$f703f000$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

What timing *sigh*

I just noticed this morning that there is a rather severe problem with both our primary and secondary mail servers for the classiccmp.org domain. I must admit with much chagrin that it appears to be one of a set of changes that I made a week or two ago, but only manifested itself this morning. I am not sure of exactly which change caused the problem, but I have been working on it all day and will continue to do so till the problem is fixed.

Symptoms - inbound connections from remote mail servers experience a long delay after the connection is made before sendmail acknowledges the connection. Most of the time the mail goes through, but the long pause bothers me. Other times the remote mail server times out, and retries later, but gets through. As a result, it appears that mail is going through but is significantly delayed. The error message is the typical "timeout waiting for..... during client greeting". No, the problem is definitely not reverse DNS (ident) or low level network related - the typical causes for that problem.

I will post to the list once the problem is resolved, unless I choose to finally get some sleep.

Jay


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/194815a3/attachment.html
From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Sat Mar 16 21:21:47 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
Message-ID: <3C940BCB.1050704@aurora.regenstrief.org>

I did it! I did it! I did it! Yeah!

See for yourself:

#123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567#

F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #
     A   A   .   A   M   M   M   M   P   P   P   P   P   P       TYP
     o   o   .   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +   +       STF
     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   E   E   E   B       BPD
     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   +   +   +   +   +       ETF
     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   E   E   E   B       BPD


.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   +   +   +   .   XBI D +
.   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   +   .   +   .   +   .   XBI E +

     .   .   .   .  A4  A3  A2  A1   .   .   .   .   .   .       ILV
     .   .   .   . 128 128 128 128   .   .   .   .   .   .      512 Mb

ROM0 = V4.00 ROM1 = V4.00 EEPROM = 2.03/4.02  SN = AG94408887


Restarting system software.
Restart failed due to previous error.
Loading system software.

Ultrixboot - V4.5  Sun Sep 17 13:03:13 EDT 1995

Loading (a)vmunix ...

Sizes:
text = 1153664
data = 281088
bss  = 1043548
Starting at 0x5219

ULTRIX V4.5 (Rev. 47) System #3: Wed Oct 18 11:49:00 EDT 1995
real mem  = 536346624
Memory configuration adjusted to run with small system page table
real mem  = 5242880
avail mem = 1866752
using 128 buffers containing 524288 bytes of memory
bcNode ID = 1
VAX6460, ucode rev 6, ucode opts 0, system type 0x02400101.
FPA is enabled
xmi 0 at address 0x21800000
xrp at xmi0 node 1
xrp at xmi0 node 2
xrp at xmi0 node 3
xrp at xmi0 node 4
xrp at xmi0 node 5
xrp at xmi0 node 6
xma at xmi0 node 7
xma at xmi0 node 8
xma at xmi0 node 9
xma at xmi0 node 10
kdm0 at xmi0 node 11
uq24 at kdm0 csr 100 vec 554, ipl 15
vaxbi13 at xmi0 node 13
xbib at vaxbi13 node 1
klesib at vaxbid node 2 failed to initialize!
kdb0 at vaxbi13 node 3
uq4 at kdb0 csr 362 vec 514, ipl 15
xna0 at vaxbi13 node 6
xna0: DEC DEBNI Ethernet Interface, hardware address 08:00:2b:34:a5:ca
vaxbi14 at xmi0 node 14
xbib at vaxbi14 node 1
dmb0 at vaxbi14 node 3
ci0 at vaxbi14 node 5 (CIBCA-BA)
aie0 at vaxbi14 node 6
bvpssp2 at aie0
ra0 at uq24 slave 0 (RA90)
tms6 at bvpssp2 slave 6 (TK70)
WARNING: todr too small -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
Sun Jul  4 13:29:26 EDT 1976
Automatic reboot in progress...
/dev/ra0a: 638 files, 5927 used, 9624 free (144 frags, 1185 blocks, 0.9% fragmen
tation)
/dev/rra0d: umounted cleanly
check quotas: done.
local daemons: syslog sendmail.
Removing remnant Opser files
preserving editor files
clearing /tmp
standard daemons: update cron accounting network snmpd printer.
start errlog daemon - elcsd
Sun Jul  4 13:29:44 EDT 1976
Sun Jul  4 13:29:46 1976  elcsd:datagram socket bind error ; Can't assign reques
ted address
Sun Jul  4 13:29:47 1976  elcsd:stream socket bind error ; Can't assign requeste
d address
Sun Jul  4 13:29:47 1976  elcsd:error can't open/setup main errlog file ;
Sun Jul  4 13:29:47 1976  elcsd:no errlog path for backup file;
Sun Jul  4 13:29:47 1976  elcsd:open/setup single user mode errlog file /syserr.
phicus;


ULTRIX V4.5 (Rev. 47) (phicus)

login: root
     Sun Jul 4 13:30:01 EDT 1976

Password:

ULTRIX V4.5 (Rev. 47) System #3: Wed Oct 18 11:49:00 EDT 1995

                 Digital Equipment Corporation
                 Nashua, New Hampshire

erase ^H, kill ^U, intr ^C
# ls
.new...cshrc     inst             opr              ultrixboot
.new...login     install.log      pcs750.bin       usr
.new...rhosts    install.tmp      real.profile     usr2
.profile         lib              restoresymtable  vmb.exe
all.files        lost+found       sys              vmunix
bin              mnt              syserr.myname
dev              netload          syserr.phicus
etc              new              tmp
# date
Sun Jul  4 13:32:08 EDT 1976



How did I do that? Not with the boot tape, DEC has screwed that up
(not supporting their supported hardware for the boot tape, duh!)
The key to success really was SIMH. With SIMH I could install ULTRIX
on an RA90 image. Then I simply ripped the "a" partition as a binary
image (3.5 MB zipped) and moved it to the VAX 6000/VMS. The move was
greatly helped by Brian Wheeler, who gave me an uVAX-II and Isildur,
who gave me a TK50 for it. Although I found out a trick by which one
can drive the console port of the VAX6000/VMS up to 38400 bps (simply
boot the machine and VMS with NO terminal attached, not finding a
signal, it bumps up the speed to 38400 and keeps it there. This allows
moving 3.5 MB in a bit less than 30 minutes.) Then I simply copied
that image onto the disk mounted /foreign, booted the disk and
voila! First time I got it up I was so excited that I messed up the
unit numbers and accidentially killed both my VMS 7.2 system and my
new ULTRIX disk! Luckily I had a spare VMS 5.4 disk in reserve. In
a way I'm happy I blew my VMS 7.2 disk, because its DU0 and that
should become ULTRIX anyway. Now I don't need to think about backing
the VMS stuff up any more!

Folks, this feels sooooooo good. I have been muddling for almost
one year for this moment!

The next questions are, since Evi Nemeth et al. unfortunately neglect
ULTRIX in their otherwise excellent book, where do I learn about such
things as ULTRIX 4.5 kernel configuration? I need to build a custom
kernel, but when I tried it with my 4.3 BSD knowledge of how this is
done, it failed because it didn't find sources and stuff. Can someone
give me a few hints? Do I have to manually copy the .o filed of the
BINARY directory into my own kernel directory? There are a few options
in the config file that I don't understand, is that described anywhere?

Also, does anyone have experience actually building the 4.2 sources?

My next steps are:

- make custom ULTRIX 4.5 kernel
- build the ULTRIX 4.2 system from sources
- get the CI working to the MTI StingRay and the HSC90
- load a bunch of software, especially GNU stuff, gcc,
   emacs, bash, less ...
- Install PostgreSQL
- try building the JDK
- get a VAX 6660 and hack support for it into ULTRIX 4.2
- load NetBSD sources and build as far as it gets and
   add support for XMI, KA64A, etc.

and for the other machines, get the MFM drive for my uVAX
formatted (need to produce a diagnostics tape for that.) Start
up my VAX 11/780, turn it into a 785 and make a dual CPU
machine from it. Install the PDP-8/A rack and make it going.

Final question for today: is there a program that rips an exact
tape image from a physical tape (TK70). I have that diagnostics
tape on a TK70 but need to move it onto TK50. The TK50 drive
is not happy on the TQK70 controller (or VMS isn't happy with
it.) So, I need to make a binary image, move it to laptop,
boot uVAX-II/NetBSD and write it on TK50.

Thanks so much for all your help and advice without which I
wouldn't even have started getting the VAX 6400 ins the first
place, much less making it boot ULTRIX.

-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 16 21:39:01 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
Message-ID: <20020317034034.BRZA29627.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Stan Barr 

> Great stuff!  It inspired me to dig my old thing out and plug it in.

My wife asked me to do that just this evening ;>)

> It powers up OK, but the display won't sync on my colour tv (a known
> problem with zx81s...) so I guess I'll have to add a monitor output.

A trivial task.

> The old Forth system in mine (Skywave Forth) did multiple (tiled, text) 
> windows back in '83 when most home users had never seen a computer do
> more than one thing at a time ;-)  I used to use it as a data logger,
> until it was replaced by an old XT...

But it could still do the job, right?

The ZX-Web-Cam and chat were a blast.  It was up for a total of six hours,
but they were the "after"-hours where the discussion was more on beer than
computers.  I did hear that a TCP/IP stack is near completion, and Kai
Fischer brought a prototype ZX2000, but I don't have details on either one
yet.  Should be up on the ZX-TEAM homepage soon.

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 16 21:40:23 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
Message-ID: <20020317034151.DMRB15752.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Sellam Ismail 

> Hey!  There are youngsters and virgins reading this list!

No way!

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 16 22:07:45 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020317040912.ESWR21056.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> But surely, if you link up a different keyboard (good idea as the Zx81 
> keyboard is unusable IMHO), and then use an LCD display then there's not 
> much of the original ZX81 left. 

Sure there is.  If you change the keyboard and monitor on a PC it's still a
PC -- same for the ZX81.  In most cases we're just adding peripheral i/o
devices, RAM, and beefier PSUs and mounting the whole mess in a larger
enclosure. 

OTOH I saw plenty of plain black ZX81s at this year's meeting, used to
demonstrate software.
 
> > Sure, some of these operations are slow, but the point is that we're
doing
> > a *lot* with "obsolete" hardware.  If we can get this kind of
functionality
> 
> That applies to a number of serious old-computer user groups, actually...

Yup, it's great that there are so many people out there still fanatically
hacking so many different machines . . .

Glen
0/0


From donm at cts.com  Sat Mar 16 23:16:42 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:28 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
In-Reply-To: <20020316191801.2240.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:

>   Bleh.  MDR's mailserver is down, and I can't get in to fix it till
> Monday.
>   Well, the Altos 580 ended up costing me $5 and "a future favor".
> Tyler couldn't find any of the floppy disks for it.
>   It looks fine inside, except that the case fan was unplugged from the
> PSU.  After finding the power header & plugging it in, I understand
> that.
> It does speak VT100, on RS232 port "JC" (Thanks, Andreas!) and boots to
> "Boot Monitor v7.03".  Passes system tests, and attempts to boot from
> the hard drive.  The activity light on the floppy drive comes on and
> stays on.
>   I don't think the hard drive, a CMI CM-5619, is powering up at all.
> If it is it's incredibly quiet....
>   Anyway, I don't have any way to test the system. I did find an
> archive of MP/M II for it, but the zip file isn't in any image format.
>
>   Does anyone have the install disks, and the Diagnostics/utilities
> disk, or disk images?  And a way to create the disks on a Linux box?
> They are DD/DS floppies, right?

Better check the drive(s).  I think they may be DSQD.

						 - don

>   Does this thing care what MFM disk it has?
>
>   More junkyard fun....
>
>         Doc
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>


From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sat Mar 16 23:31:17 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: test
Message-ID: <001c01c1cd74$f70a1ca0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

test, please ignore
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020316/ae028d53/attachment.html
From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sun Mar 17 00:16:59 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: test2
Message-ID: <003501c1cd7b$59a08c90$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

last test I hope
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/b21d7e2a/attachment.html
From drdidlittl at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 00:18:53 2002
From: drdidlittl at yahoo.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: list problems
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cd51$f703f000$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <20020317061853.37440.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com>

  First, let me apologize for claiming you hadn't responded to the old
spam-control thread.  After I was reminded, I remembered.
  I still would like to see the online archives up to date, and I
probably have time to help with that any way you'd like.

--- Jay West  wrote:
 
> Symptoms - inbound connections from remote mail servers experience a
> long delay after the connection is made before sendmail acknowledges
> the connection. Most of the time the mail goes through, but the long
> pause bothers me. Other times the remote mail server times out, and
> retries later, but gets through. As a result, it appears that mail is
> going through but is significantly delayed. The error message is the
> typical "timeout waiting for..... during client greeting". No, the
> problem is definitely not reverse DNS (ident) or low level network
> related - the typical causes for that problem.

  Other symptoms - I'm subscribed under 2 accounts (just for this
weekend) because the mdrconsult.com server is flaking and I can't get
into the building.  I tried to post from the "doc@mdrconsult.com" and
got a bounce error from classiccmp.org - user unknown. I'll forward the
bounce privately if you want.  Second, I'm getting the list traffic on
this account literally hours before it shows on mdrconsult.  I'm
reasonably sure that's not on this end.
  Not bitching, mind you, just offering fodder for the diagnostics.

> I will post to the list once the problem is resolved, unless I choose
> to finally get some sleep.

  So go to bed, already.  We all know how to deal with withdrawal
symptoms.
  Thanks for all the fishes.

         Doc

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From drdidlittl at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 00:26:41 2002
From: drdidlittl at yahoo.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
In-Reply-To: <3C940BCB.1050704@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020317062641.37797.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> I did it! I did it! I did it! Yeah!

  Yay!  Congratulations!

> 
> and for the other machines, get the MFM drive for my uVAX
> formatted (need to produce a diagnostics tape for that.) Start
> up my VAX 11/780, turn it into a 785 and make a dual CPU
> machine from it. Install the PDP-8/A rack and make it going.

  I've got one.  The project for the night is to try a dd dump of the
MVII Diags tape and see if it'll generate a bootable dupe.  If it
works, I'll get an image to you.
 
> Final question for today: is there a program that rips an exact
> tape image from a physical tape (TK70). I have that diagnostics
> tape on a TK70 but need to move it onto TK50. The TK50 drive
> is not happy on the TQK70 controller (or VMS isn't happy with
> it.) So, I need to make a binary image, move it to laptop,
> boot uVAX-II/NetBSD and write it on TK50.

  No dd?

        Doc

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 00:28:11 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
Message-ID: 

  I've aquired a copy of each:

MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN

  I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
interest or comments?

        Doc




From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sun Mar 17 00:47:52 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

>  I've aquired a copy of each:
>
>MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
>MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
>
>  I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
>tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
>there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
>interest or comments?
>
>        Doc

I don't know what licenseing issues there might be, however, I'm fairly
sure there might be problems with the first one at least.  Having said
that, I'd recommend getting a copy of VMSTPC and doing this under OpenVMS.

			Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sun Mar 17 00:48:54 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: list problem fixed
Message-ID: <004801c1cd7f$ceb343c0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

The problem with the mail servers has been found and fixed. Turns out it wasn't due to the changes I had made. One of the open relay databases that we use for checking smtp servers that we will converse with is currently out of service it seems (mail-abuse.org). As a result, all the "dns"-style lookups our mail server would do to them to check for open relays would timeout. I removed the check for that service temporarily until it's disposition is known. Fear not - we have other services we check for open relay as well and they are still in effect.

If there are any further problems with the list, please email me directly. And now, finally, perhaps sleeeeep

Regards,

Jay West
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/37441cb6/attachment.html
From rhudson at cnonline.net  Sun Mar 17 01:53:17 2002
From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Response to Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
Message-ID: <3C944B6D.30904@cnonline.net>



Why not let Sellam start a new list, where we all would
be free to post off topic messages and complain about the
latest freakin spam

:)





From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Sun Mar 17 03:37:19 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:39:01 EST."
             <20020317034034.BRZA29627.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203170937.JAA23397@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:
> > From: Stan Barr 
> 
> > Great stuff!  It inspired me to dig my old thing out and plug it in.
> 
> My wife asked me to do that just this evening ;>)
>

I should *read* what I write before clicking "send" ;-)

> > The old Forth system in mine (Skywave Forth) did multiple (tiled, text) 
> > windows back in '83 when most home users had never seen a computer do
> > more than one thing at a time ;-)  I used to use it as a data logger,
> > until it was replaced by an old XT...
> 
> But it could still do the job, right?

Yep.  

I notice I've robbed one of the in/out boards out of it - I must have
needed a 8255 in a hurry, but the rest still works.

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From foo at siconic.com  Sun Mar 17 03:52:23 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Bob Shannon wrote:

> Perhaps List members can help the list manger out here.
>
> I'm located in centeral Mass, and I have a 6 foot DEC rack with a PDP 11/34a
> that has Jay's name on it.
>
> Any ideas how we might get this machine to Jay?

Shall we have another fundraiser? :)

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sun Mar 17 05:30:28 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
In-Reply-To: <3C940BCB.1050704@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <200203171130.g2HBUTK03766@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 16 Mar, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> ULTRIX V4.5 (Rev. 47) System #3: Wed Oct 18 11:49:00 EDT 1995
> real mem  = 536346624
[...]
> VAX6460, ucode rev 6, ucode opts 0, system type 0x02400101.
Gratulation, Herr Schadow! :-)

> and for the other machines, get the MFM drive for my uVAX
> formatted (need to produce a diagnostics tape for that.) 
Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk formater. The VS2k has a
MFM disk formater in ROM. 

> Final question for today: is there a program that rips an exact
> tape image from a physical tape (TK70). 
PUPS / TUHS archive, /PDP-11/Tools/Tapes/cptape.tar.gz
-- 



tschuess,
          Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sun Mar 17 05:35:29 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200203171135.g2HBZTa03777@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 17 Mar, Doc Shipley wrote:
>   I've aquired a copy of each:
> 
> MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
> 
>   I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
> tonight.  
dd in unable to handle all aspects of a tape like record size
correctly. Use /PDP-11/Tools/Tapes/cptape.tar.gz to rip the tapes and
/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/maketape.c from the PUPS / TUHS
archive to do this. 
-- 



tschuess,
          Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz


From reversebias at talk21.com  Sun Mar 17 05:38:27 2002
From: reversebias at talk21.com (John Salmon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips 
Message-ID: <000001c1cda8$7b373520$85867ad5@soho>

Re Where does the 600v come from?

The SMPSU in question is probably of the 'Flyback' or of the 'Forward Converter' type. In either case the converter O/P Tx primary winding is connected between the +300vdc rail and the collector of the switching transistor. The emitter of the switching transistor is connected by a small resistor to the 0v (-tve) rail.

During the conducting period of the switching transistor (lets call it TR4 - it often is) the potential across TR4 is very low, a few volts. Hence virtually all of the 300vdc appears across the primary winding of the O/P converter Tx (lets call it Tx1). The collector of TR4 is therefore at -300vdc. 

When TR4 is driven into its 'off' period Lenz's Law causes  the primary inductance of Tx1 to try to maintain the primary current. The resultant induced emf (due to collapse of primary flux) now produces a +tve potential at the Tr4 collector and a -tve potential at the +dc rail end of Tx1 primary. Hence the Tr4 collector is now 300vdc positive to the +300vdc rail.

Therefore the collector of Tr4 is now 600v +tve to the 0v (-tve) rail ofv the PSU. Don't touch its Heatsink while the PSU is switched on. Also allow 4 or 5 mins for the voltages to bleed down after switching the PSU off before touching internal components. (It should give this warning on its nameplate)

Hope this is clear and useful - it is 3.30am in the morning here in UK.
Regards

John Salmon
Q&R Engineer
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/a6400507/attachment.html
From vaxman at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 07:50:13 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


Hi Doc,

You ROCK! I've been looking for the MVII diags for a long time
now!

'dd' will only make a copy of the first file, and there are many
files on the tapes, so you will have to do multiple 'dd's with
the non-rewind device, figure out the block size of each file,
and document that with the image.

In the past I have used 'dd bs=32768', then divided the number
of partial blocks in by the file size to get block size and the
file in one step. IE '0+278 records in', and a file size of 142336
means a block size of 512.

I would suggest choosing some naming convention for the files like
'MVII-DIAG-MAINT.001', 'MVII-DIAG-MAINT.002', etc and include a
shell script to create a tape from the files:

#!/bin/sh
dd if=MVII-DIAG-MAINT.001 of=$TAPE bs=512
dd if=MVII-DIAG-MAINT.002 of=$TAPE bs=10240
mt -f $TAPE offline
echo "Done"

At least that was my plan when I contemplated backing up tapes. These
files can easily be burned onto a CD-R for offline storage as well.

Regards,
Clint

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:

>   I've aquired a copy of each:
> 
> MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
> 
>   I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
> tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
> there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
> interest or comments?
> 
>         Doc
> 
> 
> 
> 


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 07:56:25 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

>  >   Does anyone have the install disks, and the Diagnostics/utilities
>>  disk, or disk images?  And a way to create the disks on a Linux box?
>>  They are DD/DS floppies, right?
>
>Better check the drive(s).  I think they may be DSQD.

	I know the floppy in the Altos 586T that I had at one point was DSQD.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 08:25:34 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips 
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7B3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

Is this a follow-up to my thread about my dead Prime's PSU?
 
if so, thanks, but that was a long time ago, I bought a replacement
PSU rather than fix the old one.
 
Damn thing still doesn't work but will maybe soon, we're debugging
through it...
 
-dq
 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Salmon [mailto:reversebias@talk21.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:38 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips 


Re Where does the 600v come from?
 
The SMPSU in question is probably of the 'Flyback' or of the 'Forward
Converter' type. In either case the converter O/P Tx primary winding is
connected between the +300vdc rail and the collector of the switching
transistor. The emitter of the switching transistor is connected by a small
resistor to the 0v (-tve) rail.
 
During the conducting period of the switching transistor (lets call it TR4 -
it often is) the potential across TR4 is very low, a few volts. Hence
virtually all of the 300vdc appears across the primary winding of the O/P
converter Tx (lets call it Tx1). The collector of TR4 is therefore at -300vdc.

 
When TR4 is driven into its 'off' period Lenz's Law causes  the primary
inductance of Tx1 to try to maintain the primary current. The resultant
induced emf (due to collapse of primary flux) now produces a +tve potential at
the Tr4 collector and a -tve potential at the +dc rail end of Tx1 primary.
Hence the Tr4 collector is now 300vdc positive to the +300vdc rail.
 
Therefore the collector of Tr4 is now 600v +tve to the 0v (-tve) rail ofv the
PSU. Don't touch its Heatsink while the PSU is switched on. Also allow 4 or 5
mins for the voltages to bleed down after switching the PSU off before
touching internal components. (It should give this warning on its nameplate)
 
Hope this is clear and useful - it is 3.30am in the morning here in UK.
Regards
 
John Salmon
Q&R Engineer


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 08:32:12 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7B4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > > If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> > > boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> > 
> > That is certainly possible, Doug.  However, the one that they were
> > selling a while back (for $9.95, IIRC) was for the Xerox 1800 terminal
> > less "laptop".  Whether it is directly compatible with the 810, I do not
> > know.
> 
> This purchase was circa 1985...
> 
> But that's the right price... I'll just have to look at
> the disks when I get home again...



You're right, Xerox 1800...


:(

-dq

From thomas at tstrathmann.de  Sun Mar 17 08:43:33 2002
From: thomas at tstrathmann.de (Thomas Strathmann)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: HP 715 and IBM 6091 monitor
Message-ID: <20020317144333.GA15067@adams>

Hello,

I have recently got an IBM 6091-19 monitor and figured I could use it with
my HP 715/80 workstation but it doesn't work. Setting different video modes
in the HP's boot monitor does not do very much either. The best I get is a
partly readable but vertically diverted (sorry, I don't know how to
describe this properly) picture. Looks like it cannot sync. Do you have any
suggestions?

	Thomas


PS: I also tried the switch on the monitor to no effect.

-- 
Thomas S. Strathmann				 http://pdp7.org
If God had intended Man to Smoke, He would have set him on Fire.

From allain at panix.com  Sun Mar 17 09:21:42 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
References: <200203171130.g2HBUTK03766@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cdc7$71941280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk 
> formater. The VS2k has a MFM disk formater in ROM. 

Will that work with any MFM drive geometry or only the 
four RDxx types  that mVAXes like?

John A.



From bshannon at tiac.net  Sun Mar 17 09:22:47 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
	 <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net> <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net> <133639769670.20020316121852@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net>

Perhaps List members can help the list manger out here.

I'm located in centeral Mass, and I have a 6 foot DEC rack with a PDP 11/34a
that has Jay's name on it.

Any ideas how we might get this machine to Jay?



From bshannon at tiac.net  Sun Mar 17 09:49:19 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
References: 
		 <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net> <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net> <133639769670.20020316121852@subatomix.com> <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BAFF.525FE3CC@tiac.net>

Oops, make that list manager!

Bob Shannon wrote:

> Perhaps List members can help the list manger out here.
>
> I'm located in centeral Mass, and I have a 6 foot DEC rack with a PDP 11/34a
> that has Jay's name on it.
>
> Any ideas how we might get this machine to Jay?


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 17 09:51:55 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
Message-ID: <016501c1cdcc$1a597fa0$0ff09a8d@ajp166>

From: John Allain 


>> Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk 
>> formater. The VS2k has a MFM disk formater in ROM. 
>
>Will that work with any MFM drive geometry or only the 
>four RDxx types  that mVAXes like?
>
>John A.


Yes it will, however you need to supply the parameters for that
where the RDxx types are already known.  

You should have two VS2000.  They are small and they also make
a fun uVAX!  The second of course is for formatting media.

Allison


From bshannon at tiac.net  Sun Mar 17 09:52:25 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Message for Eric Smith and Al Kossow
References: 
		 <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net> <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net> <133639769670.20020316121852@subatomix.com> <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BBB9.EDCDB3B4@tiac.net>

Eric & Al,

I've had a Netscrape crash, and it corrupted my mailbox.  As a result I've lost
all the emails we exchanged in making arangements for the machine Eric is
comming to get.

Please email me off the list so we can coordinate this!


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sun Mar 17 10:33:12 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: <20020317034151.DMRB15752.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C94C548.C7457E22@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:
> 
> > From: Sellam Ismail 
> 
> > Hey!  There are youngsters and virgins reading this list!

There may be youngsters but very few women let alone virgins
list :)

  Signed 'single guy'

From Innfogra at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 10:53:25 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
Message-ID: <53.13accd01.29c62405@aol.com>

IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.

I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a Seagate ST225. So I 
know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I think they will take 
10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.

Paxton
Astoria, Oregon

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 11:14:24 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.

Am I correct that while different from standard
DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?

What other machines might carry these drives, can I
hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?

> I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a Seagate ST225. So I 
> know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I think they will take 
> 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.

This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...

-dq

From kees.stravers at iae.nl  Sun Mar 17 12:07:07 2002
From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
Message-ID: <20020317180707.5A30C20F3B@eowyn.vianetworks.nl>

On 2002-03-17 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl
   >> Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk
   >> formater. The VS2k has a MFM disk formater in ROM.
   >Will that work with any MFM drive geometry or only the
   >four RDxx types  that mVAXes like?

It will work with many drives. For the details see
http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs2khw.html

Kees.

--  
kees.stravers@iae.nl                   My site about the DEC VAX computer
Geldrop, The Netherlands               http://www.vaxarchive.org
http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/       is now back up, soon to be fully
Member of Insomniacs Anonymous         restored!                                       

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sun Mar 17 12:07:28 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: HP 2100/21MX emulator
Message-ID: <001201c1cdde$9aa3bba0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

My work on the emulator for the HP2100 and 21MX computer systems (and all applicable peripherals and interface cards) is reaching a point soon where I would like to solicit someone to help me with compilation testing on various unix platforms. I am doing the development and testing on FreeBSD, so of course I know it will work there. I am hoping that some list members can provide me with remote access to different unix platforms so I can make sure that it will compile correctly. I would like to make sure it will work on Sun, Linux, and HP-UX as well. I have access to quite a few HP-UX machines, but not Linux or Sun. Being a staunch FreeBSD bigot, I have no desire to install Linux myself. The emulator depends heavily on the implementation of fork(), execl(), and SYSV IPC mechanisms such as message queues. I have heard that there are some differences in the implementation of fork() on Linux for example.

At the outset I wanted very badly to allow it to work on DOS/Windows platforms, but later in the design phase it became apparent for a variety of reasons that this simply isn't feasible, unless someone knows of a way to use SYSV IPC stuff there.

If anyone can allow me remote access to these type of machines, please contact me offlist.

Regards,

Jay West
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/4be262e9/attachment.html
From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 17 12:10:04 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C94DBFC.CA42BDA8@rain.org>


I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 TPI drive.

The CP/M version with my Altos 580 is 2.2 Licensed from Digital Research
by Lambda Software (4 disks.) Each of the six disks I have are labeled
double sided, double density, soft sectored. Of the two other disks, one
is for the 580-20 and is labeled MPM/CPM for Altos 580-20, the other
Altos Diags for model 580-x.

Hope this helps!

Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> 
> Am I correct that while different from standard
> DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
> 
> What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> 
> > I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a Seagate ST225. So I
> > know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I think they will take
> > 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.
> 
> This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
> 
> -dq

From Innfogra at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 12:16:01 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: 

In a message dated 3/17/02 9:22:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com writes:


> Am I correct that while different from standard
> DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?

I don't think they are GCR but someone more knowledgeable than I will have to 
answer that. My understanding is that they are the same as a 360 drive with a 
head that is half the width so they can deal with 80 tracks instead of 40.


> 
> What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> 
> 
The answer to this is yes. For many years I kept an IBM PC (8088) clone with 
DSDD, DSQD drives and my EPROM programmer. IIRC I used the 3 1/2 inch 720K 
disk driver for the DSQD and it worked for my purposes of making disks for 
various systems. I used Media Master (sorry Fred) and PCDOS 3.3.

Many systems of the MPM era used DSQDs, some single user computers like the 
Kaypro 4, too.

The Intel 310s used DSQDs also. This is where most of mine came from. I still 
have a few 310s and DSQDs.

Paxton 
Astoria, OR
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/62c565f7/attachment.html
From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 12:33:06 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
> there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
> disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 
> TPI drive.

Ok, not GCR, but I suppose similiar to drives used
in the Sanyo MB550 (or whatever that silver incompatible
was called).
 
> The CP/M version with my Altos 580 is 2.2 Licensed from Digital Research
> by Lambda Software (4 disks.) Each of the six disks I have are labeled
> double sided, double density, soft sectored. Of the two other disks, one
> is for the 580-20 and is labeled MPM/CPM for Altos 580-20, the other
> Altos Diags for model 580-x.
> 
> Hope this helps!

Can you make copies for Doc? 

Regards,
-doug q


> 
> Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > 
> > > IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> > 
> > Am I correct that while different from standard
> > DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
> > 
> > What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> > hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> > running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> > 
> > > I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a 
> Seagate ST225. So I
> > > know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I 
> think they will take
> > > 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.
> > 
> > This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
> > 
> > -dq
> 

From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Sun Mar 17 12:37:59 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DEC RC25 docs
References: <20020315024602.2C08827ED90@mail.wzrd.com>
Message-ID: <3C94E287.621AFFA4@Vishay.com>

Brian,

still looking for RC25 docs? - There are 21 pages about this topic in
volume III of the "LSI-11 Systems Service Manual", DEC order no.
EK-LSIFS-SV-005 (that's 5th edition, Jan. 1985). Drawings of the drives,
specs, connection diagrams, operating procedures, indicator readings,
setup information etc.

I might scan this stuff and send directly. Want me to? - Or, does
somebody have write access to a place where we can make it available
on-line? (Not the whole manual, I'm not going to flip well over 1,100
pages manually!)

Regards,
Andreas

Brian Roth schrieb:
> 
> Does anyone have hardware docs for a DEC RC25 dual drive? I just received a
> couple and was planning to install one of them in my 11/725 but the power
> connectors are different. Any help would be appreciated. I am also looking
> for a spare CPU set for an 11/34.
> 
> I'll be out of town until Sun so thanks in advance.
> 
> Brian.

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 17 12:51:12 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <018001c1cde5$48886df0$0ff09a8d@ajp166>

From: Douglas Quebbeman 


>> IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
>
>Am I correct that while different from standard
>DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?


DSQD generally means 80 track two sided drives such as 
TEAC FD55F or G and double density encoding.  Typically 
they store around 800k.

FYI that can mean hard or softsectored as that is controller
not drive dependent.

>What other machines might carry these drives, can I
>hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
>running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?


Kaypro with Advent turborom, AmproLB, Micromint SB180
to name a few.

>This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...


St225, ST251 and related drives are fairly common.

Allison


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 12:56:29 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
In-Reply-To: <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Bob Shannon wrote:
> Perhaps List members can help the list 
> manger out here.
  ^^^^^^
Should that be "monger"?  Let's help Jay, not a large open box or trough
in a stable.  And I think that most all of us would reject calling Jay a
"mangler".


What will it cost, and where whould we send contributions?


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 17 13:09:54 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <002301c1cde7$541b4fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I think you fellows may be woofing up the wrong tree.  The normal DRIVE does
not determine what the modulation scheme is.  GCR, MFM, FM, etc, are
modulation schemes.  The drive simply takes what's sent to it and divides it
by two, thereby producing a single flux reversal for every positive transition
in the data stream.  You can send it NRZ, Manchester, or RLL, or whatever you
like, but it will only take the data stream you send it and produce a flux
reversal for each positive transition.  On read, if the data you sent it was
at the right frequency for the head/media combination, and had the minimal
number of transitions per unit of time, (that's why NRZ generally doesn't work
over time) you'll get back more or less what you sent it, less write
precompensation.

There are exceptions to these principles, but only in environments where the
system vendor chose to provide a non-standard drive, e.g. as Apple has, in the
past, chosen to do.

I can't tell you what the ALTOS 58x boxes do, since I gave mine to Will
Jennings some time back.  That one had a CMI 32 MB drive in it, IIRC and a
96TPI (?) HH FDD.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
To: 
Cc: "'Doc Shipley'" ; "'Marvin Johnston'"

Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)


> > I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
> > there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
> > disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96
> > TPI drive.
>
> Ok, not GCR, but I suppose similiar to drives used
> in the Sanyo MB550 (or whatever that silver incompatible
> was called).
>
> > The CP/M version with my Altos 580 is 2.2 Licensed from Digital Research
> > by Lambda Software (4 disks.) Each of the six disks I have are labeled
> > double sided, double density, soft sectored. Of the two other disks, one
> > is for the 580-20 and is labeled MPM/CPM for Altos 580-20, the other
> > Altos Diags for model 580-x.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
>
> Can you make copies for Doc?
>
> Regards,
> -doug q
>
>
> >
> > Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > >
> > > > IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> > >
> > > Am I correct that while different from standard
> > > DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
> > >
> > > What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> > > hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> > > running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> > >
> > > > I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a
> > Seagate ST225. So I
> > > > know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I
> > think they will take
> > > > 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.
> > >
> > > This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
> > >
> > > -dq
> >
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 17 13:11:14 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
References: <018001c1cde5$48886df0$0ff09a8d@ajp166>
Message-ID: <002701c1cde7$826e7120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

The one I had used a standard sort of FDC, so it's not likely it was hard
sectored, nor is it likely it used some off-beat, e.g. GCR, modulation scheme.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "ajp166" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)


> From: Douglas Quebbeman 
>
>
> >> IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> >
> >Am I correct that while different from standard
> >DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
>
>
> DSQD generally means 80 track two sided drives such as
> TEAC FD55F or G and double density encoding.  Typically
> they store around 800k.
>
> FYI that can mean hard or softsectored as that is controller
> not drive dependent.
>
> >What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> >hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> >running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
>
>
> Kaypro with Advent turborom, AmproLB, Micromint SB180
> to name a few.
>
> >This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
>
>
> St225, ST251 and related drives are fairly common.
>
> Allison
>
>


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:19 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> >This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
> 
> St225, ST251 and related drives are fairly common.

Love the ST251. Any drive that still works after opening
it up and blowing dust out of it with human breath is a
wonder of engineering...

-dq

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 13:20:47 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3C94DBFC.CA42BDA8@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote:

>
> I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
> there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
> disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 TPI drive.

  So, this means I can make disks from image with a vanilla 5.25 1.2M
drive, on a Linux box, right?  Assuming I have DSDD floppies and use the
correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
  Alternatively, is there any reason I couldn't temporarily move the
drive itself to a PC to build the disks?

> The CP/M version with my Altos 580 is 2.2 Licensed from Digital Research
> by Lambda Software (4 disks.) Each of the six disks I have are labeled
> double sided, double density, soft sectored. Of the two other disks, one
> is for the 580-20 and is labeled MPM/CPM for Altos 580-20, the other
> Altos Diags for model 580-x.

  Any chance you could image those for me?  Maybe even scan the docs?

	Doc


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:21:20 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
> > They are DD/DS floppies, right?
> 
> Better check the drive(s).  I think they may be DSQD.

Correct


From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 17 13:28:31 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C94EE5F.3CED0E6E@rain.org>


Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> Love the ST251. Any drive that still works after opening
> it up and blowing dust out of it with human breath is a
> wonder of engineering...

I used to make some of the prototype PC Boards for DMA Systems (since
sold to IIRC Ricoh) removeable hard drives. When I was up in
engineering, one of the engineers told me running them out in the open
air doesn't really hurt them, at least for the
evaluation/troubleshooting they were doing. It was not recommended
though in a dusty or smoke filled environment :). I still have one of
their PC Boards with the programmed CPU and schematic for disk testing.
Never took the time to build it up, but I wanted one ... just because
:).

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:33:42 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> Am I correct that while different from standard
> DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?

Correct.  (although being or not being GCR is irrelevant to the DRIVE) The
Altos diskettes that I'm familiar with are MFM "double density" (similar
to a "360K"), but with a narrower track providing 80 tracks at 96 tpi.


> What other machines might carry these drives, [?]
try:
http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html#720K
that is NOT an exhaustive list, merely the ones that I implemented in
XenoCopy.

> can I
> hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> running DOS, [?]
YES.
You can do them with most 1.2M drives, with a few software complications.
But it IS easier if you hook up the right kind of drive, such as Teac 55F,
Tandon TM100-4, Mitsubishi 4853, Shugart/Matsushita/Panasonic/National
465.  In which case, life is a little simpler if you lie to the CMOS and
say that they are 3.5" 720K.


> and then duplicate the disks?
Maybe,
but NOT by using DISKCOPY, nor anything else that comes from MICROS~1!
With some calls to INT13h in a loop,...
or there were numerous commercial packages.  (MY favorite is obvious)

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236                     (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties.  If you have problems reaching me at
this e-mail address, you can leave a message at:
fcisin@merritt.edu


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:37:22 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote:
> > DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
> I don't think they are GCR but someone more knowledgeable than I will have to 
> answer that. My understanding is that they are the same as a 360 drive with a 
> head that is half the width so they can deal with 80 tracks instead of 40.
Correct

> > What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> > hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> > running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> The answer to this is yes. For many years I kept an IBM PC (8088) clone with 
> DSDD, DSQD drives and my EPROM programmer. IIRC I used the 3 1/2 inch 720K 
> disk driver for the DSQD and it worked for my purposes of making disks for 
> various systems. I used Media Master (sorry Fred) and PCDOS 3.3.

No offense taken; Mark is a good guy, and it was a good product.
MOST of the folk in that particular software specialty treated each other
as "COLLEAGUES", rather than as "COMPETITORS".  (Like Dentists)

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236                     (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties.  If you have problems reaching me at
this e-mail address, you can leave a message at:
fcisin@merritt.edu


From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Sun Mar 17 13:39:53 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DEC wirewrap boards?
References: 
Message-ID: <003901c1cdeb$8313b500$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

I'm looking for some hex (preferably), quad or even dual
Unibus or Qbus  wirewrap boards for project. 
Anyone have a stash? Commerical sources?

regards,
heinz


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:43:29 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <002701c1cde7$826e7120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> The one I had used a standard sort of FDC, so it's not likely it was hard
> sectored, nor is it likely it used some off-beat, e.g. GCR, modulation scheme.

It _IS_ MFM soft sectored, 96TPI, WD/IBM sector headers, etc.


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:45:29 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <002301c1cde7$541b4fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> I think you fellows may be woofing up the wrong tree.  The normal DRIVE does
> . . .  
> I can't tell you what the ALTOS 58x boxes do, since I gave mine to Will
> Jennings some time back.  That one had a CMI 32 MB drive in it, IIRC and a
> 96TPI (?) HH FDD.

Whether the drive is HH (HALF-HEIGHT) of FH (FULL-HEIGHT) is ALSO woofing
up the wrong tree.


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 13:57:08 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:29 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:
>   So, this means I can make disks from image with a vanilla 5.25 1.2M
> drive, on a Linux box, right?  Assuming I have DSDD floppies and use the
> correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
Maybe.  Does that driver successfully switch step independent of switching
density?
If so, it might work IFF it happens to be the same number of bytes per
sector and sectors per track.  It might be, but I'm not going to get a
chance to look that up today.

>   Alternatively, is there any reason I couldn't temporarily move the
> drive itself to a PC to build the disks?
With the right software,..  certainly.
For use in a PC with the stock PC cable, rejumper the drive to the second
drive select position (DS1 of 0/1/2, 2 of 1/2/3, B of A/B/C)
Lie to the CMOS and tell the PC that it is a 3.5" 720K.
You can test the drive then by putting a blank virgin 360K floppy in it
and formatting it as a 720K.  (Note: a few people (Tony) have had
reliability problems using 360K blank diskettes as 720K, even though they
are spec'ed the same.  It might be due to closer proximity to the
Greenwich meridian :-)




From lemay at cs.umn.edu  Sun Mar 17 14:01:17 2002
From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DEC wirewrap boards?
In-Reply-To: <003901c1cdeb$8313b500$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
Message-ID: <200203172001.OAA00825@caesar.cs.umn.edu>


   http://www-users.itlabs.umn.edu/~lemay/computers/dec_breadboards.html

> I'm looking for some hex (preferably), quad or even dual
> Unibus or Qbus  wirewrap boards for project. 
> Anyone have a stash? Commerical sources?
> 
> regards,
> heinz
> 

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 14:02:55 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020317040912.ESWR21056.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 16, 2 11:07:45 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1396 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/76f9ef2b/attachment.ksh
From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 14:03:01 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020317150301.007e8240@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 12:14 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
>
>Am I correct that while different from standard
>DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
>
>What other machines might carry these drives,

   The SB-180s used them. A lot of the later CPM and early MS-DOS (but not
necessarily IBM compatible) machines used them. For example, they were
popular additons to the Sanyo 55xs.  I just found a pair of Teac 80 track
drives inside of an old Multibus system (The same one that had the GAPP
cards in it).

 can I
>hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
>running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?

   Yes, MS-DOS can handle them. There's a DOS device driver that I can't
think of the name of but it will let you specify the number of sides,
tracks and sectors. It will handle them nicely.
  

>
>> I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a Seagate ST225. So I 
>> know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I think they will take 
>> 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.
>
>This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...

   225s and 251s are handy to keep around since they'll replace a number of
OLD hard drives. I've used 225s to replace the dries inside of some of the
HP HP-IB disk drives.

     Joe
>
>-dq
>


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 14:07:40 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3C94DBFC.CA42BDA8@rain.org>
References: 
 <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
 <3C94DBFC.CA42BDA8@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

>I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
>there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
>disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 TPI drive.

	If anyone is ever in need of copies, I have technical 
documentation and the maint. manual on both the M4853 and M4853-1 
drives.  It is a DSQD drive.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 17 14:11:34 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C94DBFC.CA42BDA8@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020317151134.007e9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 01:20 PM 3/17/02 -0600, Doc wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote:
>
>>
>> I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
>> there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
>> disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 TPI drive.
>
>  So, this means I can make disks from image with a vanilla 5.25 1.2M
>drive, on a Linux box, right? 


   That MIGHT work but I don't recommend it. The 1.2M drive has
compatibility problesm with the 360k drives and it has the sme compatility
problems with the QD drive.  You need a drive that's designed for QD and
you need QD disks if at all possible.  QD disk have the same coercivity
(SP?) as 360k disks and 1.2M disks use a different coercivity.


 Assuming I have DSDD floppies and use the
>correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
>  Alternatively, is there any reason I couldn't temporarily move the
>drive itself to a PC to build the disks?

   That should work as long as the PC understands the file structure.  You
may need to use 22disk or something similar that understands the Altos
structure.

    Joe


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 14:44:34 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020317151134.007e9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
> >  So, this means I can make disks from image with a vanilla 5.25 1.2M
> >drive, on a Linux box, right? 
>    That MIGHT work but I don't recommend it. The 1.2M drive has
> compatibility problesm with the 360k drives and it has the sme compatility
> problems with the QD drive.  
Actually, it is NOT the sme compatility, (nor the same compatability :-)
problems.  The big problem with 360K in 1.2M is the head width.  THAT is
OK for "QD".  But there can be some problems sometimes with trying to do
"QD" with 1.2M, since sometimes it can be difficult to get it to switch
density without also switching into "double-stepping" mode.
[Note:  I'm not really trying to ridicule you about the spelling - at the
last Computer Faire and one year at Comdex, our sign maker
ignored the supplied disk file and delivered our signs saying: 
"End disk format incompatility!"]



> You need a drive that's designed for QD and
> you need QD disks if at all possible.  QD disk have the same coercivity
> (SP?) as 360k disks and 1.2M disks use a different coercivity.
Correct spelling.  360K (AND "QD") is 300 Oerstedts; 1.2M is 600
Oerstedts.

>  Assuming I have DSDD floppies and use the
> >correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
> >  Alternatively, is there any reason I couldn't temporarily move the
> >drive itself to a PC to build the disks?
>    That should work as long as the PC understands the file structure.  You
Pretty EXTREME assumption!  Not much besides CP/M,MP/M understands CP/M
file system and DIRectory structure.

> may need to use 22disk or something similar that understands the Altos
> structure.
or Media Master, or Uniform, or "certain others"

That "file structure" IS CP/M.  MP/M is a variant in terms of OS
operations, with the same file system structures as CP/M.  'Course there
are a few thousand different CP/M disk formats.

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236                     (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 15:07:21 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: <20020317034151.DMRB15752.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: 

> From: Sellam Ismail 
> Hey!  There are youngsters and virgins reading this list!

So, keep it raunchy or they will be very disappointed.


From fernande at internet1.net  Sun Mar 17 15:16:57 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Bob's Netscrape crash
References: 
			 <3C935C98.D4CCC068@tiac.net> <3C93706E.8030904@texoma.net> <133639769670.20020316121852@subatomix.com> <3C94B4C7.CCBDDCD6@tiac.net> <3C94BBB9.EDCDB3B4@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <3C9507C9.62EBFF43@internet1.net>

Bob,

What version of Netscape and what OS?  Netscape has been very stable for
me.  I'm using 4.77, I think.  I've used others, such as 4.08, and have
never had problems with it munching my mail..... I admit it does crash
sometimes.  I did use Kaufmans MailWarrior for a little while.  I liked
it because of it's small size, but whenever it crashed..... it would
almost always eat my crunch my email.  I'm using Win98, BTW.  I have
kicked around the idea of switching to Eudora.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> Eric & Al,
> 
> I've had a Netscrape crash, and it corrupted my mailbox.  As a result I've lost
> all the emails we exchanged in making arangements for the machine Eric is
> comming to get.
> 
> Please email me off the list so we can coordinate this!

From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 15:31:31 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7B4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> > > > If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
> > > > boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
> > >
> > > That is certainly possible, Doug.  However, the one that they were
> > > selling a while back (for $9.95, IIRC) was for the Xerox 1800 terminal
> > > less "laptop".  Whether it is directly compatible with the 810, I do not
> > > know.

Further checking reveals that it is SSDD with 8 x 512 byte sectors so is
incompatible with the Xerox 800.
						 - don

> > This purchase was circa 1985...
> >
> > But that's the right price... I'll just have to look at
> > the disks when I get home again...
>
> 
>
> You're right, Xerox 1800...
>
>
> :(
>
> -dq
>


From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 15:49:15 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 Innfogra@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/17/02 9:22:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com writes:
>
>
> > Am I correct that while different from standard
> > DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
>
> I don't think they are GCR but someone more knowledgeable than I will have to
> answer that. My understanding is that they are the same as a 360 drive with a
> head that is half the width so they can deal with 80 tracks instead of 40.
>
>
> >
> > What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> > hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> > running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> >
> >
> The answer to this is yes. For many years I kept an IBM PC (8088) clone with
> DSDD, DSQD drives and my EPROM programmer. IIRC I used the 3 1/2 inch 720K
> disk driver for the DSQD and it worked for my purposes of making disks for
> various systems. I used Media Master (sorry Fred) and PCDOS 3.3.
>
> Many systems of the MPM era used DSQDs, some single user computers like the
> Kaypro 4, too.

I do not believe they were built that way by Kaypro.  Such a capability
was provided only by third-party EPROM or someone hacked the factory
issue.
						 - don

> The Intel 310s used DSQDs also. This is where most of mine came from. I still
> have a few 310s and DSQDs.
>
> Paxton
> Astoria, OR
>


From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 15:52:02 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:

> > I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
> > there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
> > disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96
> > TPI drive.
>
> Ok, not GCR, but I suppose similiar to drives used
> in the Sanyo MB550 (or whatever that silver incompatible
> was called).

Doug, it is a pretty conventional CP/M format.  The disk definition is
in the list from 22Disk.

						 - don

> > The CP/M version with my Altos 580 is 2.2 Licensed from Digital Research
> > by Lambda Software (4 disks.) Each of the six disks I have are labeled
> > double sided, double density, soft sectored. Of the two other disks, one
> > is for the 580-20 and is labeled MPM/CPM for Altos 580-20, the other
> > Altos Diags for model 580-x.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
>
> Can you make copies for Doc?
>
> Regards,
> -doug q
>
>
> >
> > Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > >
> > > > IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
> > >
> > > Am I correct that while different from standard
> > > DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
> > >
> > > What other machines might carry these drives, can I
> > > hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
> > > running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
> > >
> > > > I had one that had the CMI hard drive replaced with a
> > Seagate ST225. So I
> > > > know they will take similar configured Hard Drives. I
> > think they will take
> > > > 10, 15 and 20 Meg HDs.
> > >
> > > This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
> > >
> > > -dq
> >
>


From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 15:53:39 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020317215339.50187.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually, there is very good documentation on this
keyboard, and I was considering building a tiny PIC
"black box" for this purpose  - to convert PC
scancodes to the 4800 baud TTL serial that the VT320
expects. I wasn't going to convert each and every key,
just the ASCII.


--- Tony Duell  wrote:
> > LK201:
> > > I found a few of the keys didn't work right on
> > > one of them. This is one of those conductive
> rubber
> > > dome keyboards (and cheap and junky ones at
> that).
> 
> All the LK201s I've worked on have used membrane
> switches. But I believe 
> there are several versions.
> 
> > > They ask quite a bit for them on the 'net
> > > ("refurbished", usually meaning they blow the
> dirt out
> > > with compressed air).
> > 
> > With the LK201, blowing out the dirt is about the
> extent of it.
> > The keyboard assembly is such that you can not
> easily disassemble
> > it to do a good cleaning.
> 
> Taking it apart is easy :-). it's getting it back
> together that's the 
> hard part. It's easy to remove the casing,
> electronics, and keycaps. The 
> rest of it is heat-staked together. You can cut off
> the moulded-over 
> parts, take off the housings, the leafsprings and
> then separate the 
> layers of the membrane sandwich. But it's very hard
> to heat-stake 
> together again (not enough plastic left), and the
> housings are too thin 
> to drill for screws.
> 
> > > I can find better PC keyboards new for around
> $4.99.
> > 
> > If you mean as in 'Wintel', they are not
> compatable.
> 
> Since the LK201 protocol is fairly easily available,
> I would have thought 
> it would be possible to use a single-chip
> microcontroller to link a PC 
> keyboard to a LK201 port. I've never tried to write
> the code, though.
> 
> -tony
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 16:05:27 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020317151134.007e9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:

> At 01:20 PM 3/17/02 -0600, Doc wrote:
> >On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I just took a look at the docs for the Series 5 Altos computers and
> >> there is a repair ticket for a Mitsubishi M4853 Disk Drive. The floppy
> >> disk summary docs indicate that drive is a 5.25, HH, 720K, 96 TPI drive.
> >
> >  So, this means I can make disks from image with a vanilla 5.25 1.2M
> >drive, on a Linux box, right?
>
>
>    That MIGHT work but I don't recommend it. The 1.2M drive has
> compatibility problesm with the 360k drives and it has the sme compatility
> problems with the QD drive.  You need a drive that's designed for QD and
> you need QD disks if at all possible.  QD disk have the same coercivity
> (SP?) as 360k disks and 1.2M disks use a different coercivity.

Our experience differs, Joe.  I have never had a problem creating QD
disks on a 1.2 drive.
						 - don

>  Assuming I have DSDD floppies and use the
> >correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
> >  Alternatively, is there any reason I couldn't temporarily move the
> >drive itself to a PC to build the disks?
>
>    That should work as long as the PC understands the file structure.  You
> may need to use 22disk or something similar that understands the Altos
> structure.
>
>     Joe
>
>


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 17 16:30:48 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <01d801c1ce04$df447080$0ff09a8d@ajp166>

Actually one system did use it with hard sectoring, Northstar.
All of the others were WDC or 765 based.

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher 
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org 
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2002 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)


>The one I had used a standard sort of FDC, so it's not likely it was
hard
>sectored, nor is it likely it used some off-beat, e.g. GCR, modulation
scheme.
>
>Dick
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ajp166" 
>To: 
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:51 AM
>Subject: Re: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
>
>
>> From: Douglas Quebbeman 
>>
>>
>> >> IIRC the Floppy on an Altos 580 is DSQD.
>> >
>> >Am I correct that while different from standard
>> >DSDD, they are *not* GCR drives?
>>
>>
>> DSQD generally means 80 track two sided drives such as
>> TEAC FD55F or G and double density encoding.  Typically
>> they store around 800k.
>>
>> FYI that can mean hard or softsectored as that is controller
>> not drive dependent.
>>
>> >What other machines might carry these drives, can I
>> >hook one up to a standard PC controller in a box
>> >running DOS, and then duplicate the disks?
>>
>>
>> Kaypro with Advent turborom, AmproLB, Micromint SB180
>> to name a few.
>>
>> >This is good to know, ST225s still pop up from time to time...
>>
>>
>> St225, ST251 and related drives are fairly common.
>>
>> Allison
>>
>>
>


From rhb57 at vol.com  Sun Mar 17 16:34:39 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Bob's Netscrape crash
In-Reply-To: <3C9507C9.62EBFF43@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 

If he's using 6.0 or newer on a Windows machine it's a likely thing that
NutScrape croaked. I use and install the old 4 series up to the last version
on mine and other people's PCs and Macs but since 6.x came out I haven't
downloaded anything new (it's really AOL'd up)

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez
=> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 3:17 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Bob's Netscrape crash
=>
=>
=> Bob,
=>
=> What version of Netscape and what OS?  Netscape has been very stable for
=> me.  I'm using 4.77, I think.  I've used others, such as 4.08, and have
=> never had problems with it munching my mail..... I admit it does crash
=> sometimes.  I did use Kaufmans MailWarrior for a little while.  I liked
=> it because of it's small size, but whenever it crashed..... it would
=> almost always eat my crunch my email.  I'm using Win98, BTW.  I have
=> kicked around the idea of switching to Eudora.
=>
=> Chad Fernandez
=> Michigan, USA
=>
=> Bob Shannon wrote:
=> >
=> > Eric & Al,
=> >
=> > I've had a Netscrape crash, and it corrupted my mailbox.  As a
=> result I've lost
=> > all the emails we exchanged in making arangements for the
=> machine Eric is
=> > comming to get.
=> >
=> > Please email me off the list so we can coordinate this!


From ccraft at netgenius.org  Sun Mar 17 16:36:54 2002
From: ccraft at netgenius.org (Chris Craft)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <02031715365400.01882@ccraft.home>

Interest, indeed!  It would be very nice to be able to format RD drives 
without having to yank them and stuff them in a VS2K. :)

-Chris

On Saturday 16 March 2002 23:28, you wrote:
>   I've aquired a copy of each:
>
> MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
>
>   I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
> tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
> there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
> interest or comments?
>
>         Doc

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 16:41:30 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips
In-Reply-To: <000001c1cda8$7b373520$85867ad5@soho> from "John Salmon" at Mar 17, 2 03:38:27 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2321 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/cd4d6245/attachment.ksh
From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 16:55:07 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: (fwd) Old Ohio Scientific 1970's Computers for sale 
Message-ID: 


For those downunder or really hungry for OS hardware.  Reply to the
address below - not me.
						 - don

-- forwarded message --
Path: news20!news-feeds.jump.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!210.49.20.93.MISMATCH!not-for-mail
User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:38:35 +1100
Subject: Old Ohio Scientific 1970's Computers for sale
From: Nobody 
Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.other.misc,misc.forsale.computers.other.systems
Message-ID: 
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Lines: 8
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.41.195
X-Trace: 1016354317  6219 198.142.41.195
Xref: news20 misc.forsale.computers.other.misc:122159 misc.forsale.computers.other.systems:61836


see them at

http://www.tigersnake.com/computers/index.html

offers accepted, all items located in melbourne australia however will
ship worldwide and will accept payment via paypal.

-- end of forwarded message --


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 16:57:05 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7BA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Mar 17, 2 12:14:24 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1144 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/d380d7c4/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 17:01:41 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 17, 2 01:20:47 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1345 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/cc6b9eb7/attachment.ksh
From djenner at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 17 17:21:01 2002
From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Dilog DQ-634?
Message-ID: <3C9524DD.C81CC96F@earthlink.net>

Anyone know what a Dilog DQ-634 does?  I haven't found any information on
the Net except for a couple of places that have them for sale.

It obviously interfaces two MFM drives, due to the connectors
on it.  What DEC drives does it emulate?  Is it a never version of the
DQ-614, which emulates RL01/RL02s?

Thanks,
Dave
-- 
David C. Jenner
djenner@earthlink.net

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sun Mar 17 17:31:26 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Switching PSU Theory of Operation / Repair Tips
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7D7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>


> Have I missed the start of this thread? I don't recall anything about 
> SMPSUs here in the last few days...

No, believe it or not,

SOMEONE BESIDE A SPAMMER HAS DISCOVERED THE LIST ARCHIVES!

;)

-dq
 

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 17:54:01 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> > correct device (/dev/fd0D720) with dd?
> Not necessarily. /dev/fd0D720 assumes a 'PC like format' -- that is to 
> say 512 byte sectors, 9 sectors/track, double sided, 80 cylinders. You 
> could have some other sector size (256 byte sectors were very common at 
> one time, and I have seen 1024 byte sectors). 

Working from failing memory (not recently refreshed), and I already said
that I would NOT get around to looking it up today, ...
If I Recall Correctly, the ALtos MP/M DOES coinscidentally just happen to
run 9 sectors per track with 512 bytes per sector (80 tracks per side)
'Course the DIRectory data structures are CP/M, and unrecognizable to
MS-DOS/Windoze nor any flavor of Unix.


> You can almost certainly read/write these disks under linux using the 
> FDRAWCMD ioctl(), but you'll need to understand the PC disk controller to 
> write software using that.
True.
Or one could just write the code to operate the 765, or call the INT13h
subroutines.


> fiddling to do. In any case there's no reason not to use a normal PC 
> 1/3Mbyte drive.

Hmmm. Tony's definition of "normal PC" must differ slightly from mine :-)
I don't think that I have any 1/3M drives on hand.  Although 320K/360K
is close enough to call it that.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 17 17:55:26 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <20020317235727.IEIA19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> And the ZX81 BASIC is so unpleasant (single-key entry -- 
> YUK!)

Hmm, I regard single-key entry as a feature . . .

Glen
0/0


From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Sun Mar 17 18:01:06 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
Message-ID: <200203180001.AA06143@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:28:11 -0600 (CST)
> From: Doc Shipley 
> To: Classic Computers 
> Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
>   I've aquired a copy of each:
>
> MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
>
>   I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
> tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
> there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
> interest or comments?

Speaking as someone who did this many years ago (duplicated MV DIAG TK50)
it is not a simple dd job.  You have to copy the entire structure of
the tape, which is something like
 [  ] 

Repeat section between [   ] as many times as there are files on the tape.
Each header and trailer block is (I think) 80 bytes, and there are
FileMarks at the end of each and every header, trailer, and contents.

    carl


From ceby2 at csc.com  Sun Mar 17 18:07:43 2002
From: ceby2 at csc.com (ceby2@csc.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: IBM System/36 SSP on 5.25"
Message-ID: 

... back again with my periodic thread on System/36 IBM mini-computers...

When I last left you... we were all bitching about SPAM. This week... we're
bitching about SPAM?!

The 5362 is in good health, and I've started to fool around with actually
using it. As soon as I can find the LAN interface for it I'll integrate
into the rest of my motteley managerie on line (the better to play with
over VPN while travelling). To get to this point I hacked the security
file, deliberately corrupted the VTOC and re-installed the SSP. I found
scanning the disk sector by sector for appropriate files an... experience.
Worked though.

The 5360 was successfully moved from a printers workshop into it's
temporary storage unit. My back is recovering. The U-Haul van started
mysteriously burning oil. Co-incidence? You be the judge. Can't say as I've
powered her up -- or even done a proper inventory of part numbers. I'm sure
that's all something to look forward to, or at least it will be next time I
can spare the day to drive down to Hartford.

The 5363 arrived while I was away on client site. I get power and error
messages on it right now. Still investigating....

Steve Robertson gets gold stars for his assist along the way. I've acquired
his set of System/36 documentation. Slowly it makes it's way across my
scanner. The prospect of buying a page feeder gets more appealing every
page.

Which leads me to the subject line of this e-mail: I have the SSP set on 8"
disk, but that's not only a different format but a different version than
what's supposed to be used  on the late System/36 like a 5363. The 5363
continued to add version numbers to the SSP in a 5.25" version. The 8"
stopped around V5. I'd like to bring the 5363 around, but I could use some
additional tools to do it. Anyone out there holding onto a 5.25" SSP set?

Warmest, SPAM-free regards,
Colin Eby



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:09:10 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020317150301.007e8240@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 17, 2 03:03:01 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 271 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/96e157f0/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:16:02 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020317151134.007e9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 17, 2 03:11:34 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1472 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/4dc5b7ca/attachment.ksh
From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 18:20:38 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
>
> >    That MIGHT work but I don't recommend it. The 1.2M drive has
> > compatibility problesm with the 360k drives and it has the sme compatility
> > problems with the QD drive.
>
> Actually, it is NOT the sme compatility, (nor the same compatability :-)
> problems.  The big problem with 360K in 1.2M is the head width.  THAT is
> OK for "QD".  But there can be some problems sometimes with trying to do
> "QD" with 1.2M, since sometimes it can be difficult to get it to switch
> density without also switching into "double-stepping" mode.

  Erck. That distant splash you just heard was the sound of Doc hitting
the bottom of the well.  We passed the "All Greek To Me" phase awhile
back.
  So.  The "fd0h720" device on my Debian Linux machine is defined as
"/dev/fd0h720	5.25"	720K in a 1200K drive"
  Will the 1.2M drive write reliable QD disks?  Note that I said "write
reliable" not "reliably write".  Several tries is no biggie.

> Correct spelling.  360K (AND "QD") is 300 Oerstedts; 1.2M is 600
> Oerstedts.

  Uh. OK.  In dumbass terms, does that mean "no go"?

> >    That should work as long as the PC understands the file structure.  You
> Pretty EXTREME assumption!  Not much besides CP/M,MP/M understands CP/M
> file system and DIRectory structure.
>
> > may need to use 22disk or something similar that understands the Altos
> > structure.

  No, dd doesn't care in the slightest what the file structure is.  I've
imaged disks with filesystems totally unknown to Linux with dd.
Blocksize is sometimes an issue, but I've found that setting blocksize
to "1" fixes that just fine.
  Or, if I had a copy of 22disk (yeah, I'll google in a minute) I
suppose I could boot to DOS and do that.  Does 22disk understand dd
images?  (Andreas already cut to the chase & imaged a couple of trial
runs for me)

	Doc




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:21:13 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To:  from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 17, 2 12:44:34 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 741 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/4c116cdc/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:28:39 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <20020317215339.50187.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Mar 17, 2 01:53:39 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1078 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/40811b9f/attachment.ksh
From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sun Mar 17 18:36:07 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
References: <20020317235727.IEIA19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C953677.2AF101EA@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:
> 
> > From: Tony Duell 
> 
> > And the ZX81 BASIC is so unpleasant (single-key entry --
> > YUK!)
> 
> Hmm, I regard single-key entry as a feature . . .
> 
> Glen
> 0/0

I don't consider 'Basic' a feature. :)
BTW I gave up my ZX81 years ago when the ram pack gave up the magic
smoke!

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 18:46:19 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:
>   Erck. That distant splash you just heard was the sound of Doc hitting
> the bottom of the well.  We passed the "All Greek To Me" phase awhile
> back.

Sorry; some of the issues that came up do NOT matter for what you want to
do.

>   So.  The "fd0h720" device on my Debian Linux machine is defined as
> "/dev/fd0h720	5.25"	720K in a 1200K drive"
Perfect!
>   Will the 1.2M drive write reliable QD disks?  Note that I said "write
> reliable" not "reliably write".  Several tries is no biggie.
Yes! (with the right blanks)

> > 360K (AND "QD") is 300 Oerstedts; 1.2M is 600 Oerstedts.
>   Uh. OK.  In dumbass terms, does that mean "no go"?

No, just DON'T use "High density" diskettes.
If you can find them, use diskettes rated for 720K usage.
If you CAN'T fine them, use 360K diskettes.  Most of us have no problem
with using 360K diskettes, but SOME (including Tony) have had problems
with them.  That might be due to his closer geographical proximity to 
Stonehenge, or to the Greenwich meridian :-)

>   No, dd doesn't care in the slightest what the file structure is.  I've
> imaged disks with filesystems totally unknown to Linux with dd.
Perfect!
> Blocksize is sometimes an issue, but I've found that setting blocksize
> to "1" fixes that just fine.

>   Or, if I had a copy of 22disk (yeah, I'll google in a minute) I
> suppose I could boot to DOS and do that.  Does 22disk understand dd
> images?  (Andreas already cut to the chase & imaged a couple of trial
> runs for me)

It should be able to do it without any problems.
If not, contact me off-list and I'll help you.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:50:28 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To:  from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 17, 2 03:54:01 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2595 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/982e4a82/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:52:17 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <20020317235727.IEIA19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 17, 2 06:55:26 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 510 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/3dba2d27/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 17 18:59:55 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 17, 2 06:20:38 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2403 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/71838160/attachment.ksh
From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sun Mar 17 19:01:20 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce18$aef6c770$0ff09a8d@ajp166>

The best way to write QD media is to use a TEACFD55GFV or 
FD55F as both work.  Then the actual media is the BROWN or
360k stuff that has been bulk erased.  The resulting disks will
be reliable aswsuming the drive hasn't been munged or the 
formating incorrect.  A PC FDC can drive these drives and 
will/can format them.

You will need a utility program that does disk reading and 
formatting with CP/M formats.

FYI: the TEAC drives are my favorite for any 80track format
either single or double sided.  I use them as substition 
for RX50s as well.

Allison



From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Sun Mar 17 19:04:22 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


With a full install of Ultrix there is a utility called itc which will do 
image tape copies.  I have successfully made an image of the Microvax Diag 
and booted from the copies.  It is possible that itc might run in Ultrix 
compat. mode on netbsd.  It is actually a c source code example installed 
with the examples subsets.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >  I've aquired a copy of each:
> >
> >MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> >MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN
> >
> >  I'm going to try using dd to generate an image for duplication
> >tonight.  If I can make a bootable duplicate from the image, and if
> >there are no licensing issues, I'll make the images available.  Any
> >interest or comments?
> >
> >        Doc
> 
> I don't know what licenseing issues there might be, however, I'm fairly
> sure there might be problems with the first one at least.  Having said
> that, I'd recommend getting a copy of VMSTPC and doing this under OpenVMS.
> 
> 			Zane
> --
> | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
> | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
> |                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
> |          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
> |                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |
> 
> 

-- 


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 19:22:51 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:
> >   Erck. That distant splash you just heard was the sound of Doc hitting
> > the bottom of the well.  We passed the "All Greek To Me" phase awhile
> > back.
>
> Sorry; some of the issues that came up do NOT matter for what you want to
> do.

  Oh, good.  I was feeling very small....  ;^)

> >   So.  The "fd0h720" device on my Debian Linux machine is defined as
> > "/dev/fd0h720	5.25"	720K in a 1200K drive"
> Perfect!
> >   Will the 1.2M drive write reliable QD disks?  Note that I said "write
> > reliable" not "reliably write".  Several tries is no biggie.
> Yes! (with the right blanks)

  Alrighty then!

> > > 360K (AND "QD") is 300 Oerstedts; 1.2M is 600 Oerstedts.
> >   Uh. OK.  In dumbass terms, does that mean "no go"?
>
> No, just DON'T use "High density" diskettes.
> If you can find them, use diskettes rated for 720K usage.

  The blanks I have are 3M "DS,DD Formatted Diskettes" IBM formatted at
360K.  I gotta bunch, so a few failed formats won't stop the show.

> If you CAN'T fine them, use 360K diskettes.  Most of us have no problem
> with using 360K diskettes, but SOME (including Tony) have had problems
> with them.  That might be due to his closer geographical proximity to
> Stonehenge, or to the Greenwich meridian :-)

  In Texas, you have to "hold your mouth right".

> >   Or, if I had a copy of 22disk (yeah, I'll google in a minute) I
> > suppose I could boot to DOS and do that.  Does 22disk understand dd
> > images?  (Andreas already cut to the chase & imaged a couple of trial
> > runs for me)
>
> It should be able to do it without any problems.
> If not, contact me off-list and I'll help you.

  'K.  dd first, then 22disk if dd craps out.

	Doc


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:30 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> Does any 1.2Mbyte drive do double stepping in hardware? 
Not that I've ever seen.

> I've never seen 
> one that does (in fact most 'double stepping' drives have been modified, 
> they were not designed like that). And I've just checked the PC/AT BIOS 
> sources, and that machine most definitely double steps in software when 
> reading a 360K (40 cylinder) disk in a 1.2M (80 cylinder) drive.

The problem may be occurring (if it exists at all) from programmers trying
to interface with the existing software at too high a level.
One of my "colleagues" (competitors) was trying to do some stuff with DEC
diskettes and reported having problems with it.  I never saw his source
code, but since he was trying for emulation with maximum OS transparency,
I'm going to guess that he was trying to use the MS-DOS API "raw
read"/"raw write" routines.

I also got two reports from users of getting (#64) "seek error"s when
trying to read Eagle diskettes in what they said were 1.2M drives.  Those
users were unable to provide coherent followup, and had no problems once I
talked them through temporarily installing one of the Eagle drives (QD).

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 20:22:37 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <20020317235727.IEIA19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <20020318022237.7766.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Glen Goodwin  wrote:
> > From: Tony Duell 
> 
> > And the ZX81 BASIC is so unpleasant (single-key entry -- 
> > YUK!)
> 
> Hmm, I regard single-key entry as a feature . . .

So do I, on my *house*!  (and my PDP-8 ;-)

I never liked single-key-entry BASIC because you have to "know"
what mysterious character they chose for keywords with the same
initial letter.  I mean is "S" STEP?  STOP?  How about "O"?  ON?
OPEN?  

I'd rather type the whole word than worry about what the next letter
has to be.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From rcini at optonline.net  Sun Mar 17 20:39:38 2002
From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
Message-ID: 

Hello, all:

	I plan on playing with my old Model 1this weekend so that I can get the
floppy drive working. Since I suffer from random bit-rot, can someone tell
me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a
48k Level II with the Percom controller and drive. I don't have any disks
for it any more, but I was going to use the TRS81 emulator to create new
disks for it.

	Thanks.

Rich

Rich Cini
Collector of classic computers
Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project
Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
/************************************************************/




From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Sun Mar 17 21:49:54 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: Formatting MFM drives on uVAXen (was: Re: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
References: <200203171130.g2HBUTK03766@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <00d301c1cdc7$71941280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C9563E2.2070404@aurora.regenstrief.org>

John Allain wrote:

>>Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk 
>>formater. The VS2k has a MFM disk formater in ROM. 
>>
> 
> Will that work with any MFM drive geometry or only the 
> four RDxx types  that mVAXes like?


I think it will, either with the built-in drive geometries or
if you specify the dozens of parameters for drives unknown to
the system.

BUT, the main point of this posting is that it's just too
easy to get another machine if there are other ways! Of
course I could have booted the VAX 6460 from an InfoServer,
but why spending the money for shipping that thing if there
are other ways? (Also, I'm not even sure it would have
worked, because DEC really screwed up this ULTRIX standalone
kernel.)

So, I now have the MDM tape on TK50. This is the DEC MicroVAX
Diagnostics Monitor tape. How? Well, I somehow got the MDM tape
generator for VMS, generated the tape on TK70 then used cptape
to rip the VMS tape filesystem off the tape under ULTRIX on
VAX6460 (the compressed tar file for it is just about 5.5 MB
in size.) A little sed and dd and all the 255 files were copied
onto TK50 on the NetBSD/uVAX. Now I can boot it on the uVAX and
am ready to format my MFM drive. ...

... if I hadn't screwed up the wiring, that is.  It now barks at
me that I, the user, had DISABLED the drive. But I have done
nothing. I'll have to check the cables and plugs, or, may be
there is stuff to do with the jumpers on the drive? Did you ever
have to worry about jumpers on the drive?

regards
-Gunther



PS: I don't think I will mess much with MFM drives. I just
bought another pair of RF72 DSSI drives off ePay along with
two KDA50 (I just *love* RA drives.) I would like to trade
one KDA50 set against a UDA50 set. I need that UDA50 set to
hook up RA drives to my VAX 11/785.

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From oeth_family at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 17 23:01:35 2002
From: oeth_family at prodigy.net (John & Tina Oeth)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: ZWL-183-92
Message-ID: <000601c1ce39$fbf85c20$543dbdd0@john>

am looking for any info on the above model laptop. If you have any info, please send to P.B.man@juno.com . thanks
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020317/3652b6f2/attachment.html
From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 17 23:01:45 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:30 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
> >
> > >    That MIGHT work but I don't recommend it. The 1.2M drive has
> > > compatibility problesm with the 360k drives and it has the sme compatility
> > > problems with the QD drive.
> >
> > Actually, it is NOT the sme compatility, (nor the same compatability :-)
> > problems.  The big problem with 360K in 1.2M is the head width.  THAT is
> > OK for "QD".  But there can be some problems sometimes with trying to do
> > "QD" with 1.2M, since sometimes it can be difficult to get it to switch
> > density without also switching into "double-stepping" mode.
>
>   Erck. That distant splash you just heard was the sound of Doc hitting
> the bottom of the well.  We passed the "All Greek To Me" phase awhile
> back.
>   So.  The "fd0h720" device on my Debian Linux machine is defined as
> "/dev/fd0h720	5.25"	720K in a 1200K drive"
>   Will the 1.2M drive write reliable QD disks?  Note that I said "write
> reliable" not "reliably write".  Several tries is no biggie.
>
> > Correct spelling.  360K (AND "QD") is 300 Oerstedts; 1.2M is 600
> > Oerstedts.
>
>   Uh. OK.  In dumbass terms, does that mean "no go"?
>
> > >    That should work as long as the PC understands the file structure.  You
> > Pretty EXTREME assumption!  Not much besides CP/M,MP/M understands CP/M
> > file system and DIRectory structure.
> >
> > > may need to use 22disk or something similar that understands the Altos
> > > structure.
>
>   No, dd doesn't care in the slightest what the file structure is.  I've
> imaged disks with filesystems totally unknown to Linux with dd.
> Blocksize is sometimes an issue, but I've found that setting blocksize
> to "1" fixes that just fine.
>   Or, if I had a copy of 22disk (yeah, I'll google in a minute) I
> suppose I could boot to DOS and do that.  Does 22disk understand dd
> images?  (Andreas already cut to the chase & imaged a couple of trial
> runs for me)

No, 22Disk does not understand dd images, TeleDisk images, .dsk images,
or most any other kind.  It is only capable of reading, writing, and
formatting most CP/M disk formats.  That is to say, it is capable of
formatting a DD blank as an Altos DSQD diskand and it is also capable of
writing available files to that disk.  With a modification to the disk
definition and an image file of the boot track, it is possible to make
the new disk bootable also.  This assumes that either the whole of CP/M
is on the boot track, or that any needed loaders and CPM.SYS or MPM.SYS
are written to the data area.
						 - don

> 	Doc
>
>
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 23:15:17 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580
In-Reply-To: <53.13accd01.29c62405@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

  Just in case there was any doubt;

  Andreas' dd disk images Just Worked (tm)
  Evidently Altos' Diags & OS disks uses a 512 byte block, or multiples,
because I think he ripped the images without a specified block size.
  3M DS,DD 360K floppies formatted fine as "/dev/fd1h720" on a plain old
combo drive (1.44 3.5" & 1.2 5.25 in one), brand long forgotten.

  The CMI hard disk is dead as nails.  My boss is gonna be an irritated
S.O.B in the morning.  I know we've got some ST225 drives, and for
hard drives, he generally charges me $.01/MB.... :^)

  More fun than one man's allowed.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 23:21:23 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:

> Which bits in particular are you having problems with? Much of this
> doesn't matter for your problem (because by your good luck everything is
> compatible), but you might want to understand it all anyway.

  Why it was germane to the issue at hand?  I understand, at least
generally, the mechanics and relative formats of the drives and disks
involved, but the ongoing discussion was getting me to think there were
issues that I was completely missing.
  I must admit I got no clue what an "Oerstedt" is.  Or why I need to
know....

> >   Will the 1.2M drive write reliable QD disks?  Note that I said "write
> > reliable" not "reliably write".  Several tries is no biggie.
>
> Yes, it should be able to. But if you're in doubt, but can make a disk
> which works (albeit that it might go unreliable in a month's time), just
> back it up on the target machine.

  Standard Operating Procedure.

> When I transfered some LS-DOS disk images to physical disks for my TRS-80
> Model 4, I had to write them on an 80 cylinder drive (the 1.2M drive on
> this PC). I then backed them up to genuine 40 cylinder disks on the Model
> 4. Incidentally, I've never had any real problems writing TRS-80 40 or 80
> cylinder images on a PC.

  Kewl.  I'm gonna have one someday.  A TRS-80, that is.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 17 23:39:57 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Don Maslin wrote:

> No, 22Disk does not understand dd images, TeleDisk images, .dsk images,
> or most any other kind.  It is only capable of reading, writing, and
> formatting most CP/M disk formats.  That is to say, it is capable of
> formatting a DD blank as an Altos DSQD diskand and it is also capable of
> writing available files to that disk.  With a modification to the disk
> definition and an image file of the boot track, it is possible to make
> the new disk bootable also.  This assumes that either the whole of CP/M
> is on the boot track, or that any needed loaders and CPM.SYS or MPM.SYS
> are written to the data area.

  OK.
  Did I mention "Thanks!" to everyone who offered advice & images?  I'm
still looking for the "full set" and docs, but Being able to boot & test
is a great first step.

  Thanks!


	Doc


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 18 00:08:38 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <20020318061006.FVPC860.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Ethan Dicks 

> I never liked single-key-entry BASIC because you have to "know"
> what mysterious character they chose for keywords with the same
> initial letter.  I mean is "S" STEP?  STOP?  How about "O"?  ON?
> OPEN?  

Sure -- that's why the Sinclair-based systems had the keywords printed on
the keys.  Those of us who use alternate keyboards either have
screen-printed keys, a chart glued to the keyboard, or, after 20 years of
squeezing the last living cpu stroke out of these things, have simply
learned them.  To me, it's still easier than typing the whole keyword.

An additional benefit is that it made the built-in syntax-checker possible.
 You simply *can't* enter a syntactically incorrect line of BASIC into a
program using a ZX81.

Of course, serious ZX81 programmers use very little BASIC, same as with any
other machine.  I'm NOT a proponent of BASIC on *any* platform, but ZX81
BASIC sure did get a lot of kids interested in computers.

Ever wonder why the UK leads the world in game programming?  Answer: ZX81
and the Spectrum.  These machines taught kids to make the most of the
hardware.

The kids I know today think they're hot tuna because they can "build web
pages."  They've never heard of machine code and haven't a clue what an
assembler or compiler is.

20 years ago, the inquisitive kids said "BASIC sucks, what's the next
level?"

Know what I mean?

Glen
0/0


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Mon Mar 18 00:39:42 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Configuring ULTRIX 4.x kernel (was: Re: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!)
References: 
Message-ID: <3C958BAE.8090401@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Lord Isildur wrote:

> as for configuring the kernel, it is pretty similar to the bsd convention.
> i think in /usr/sys/conf/vax you find the config files, just take a
> GENERIC and customize it.. the BINARY is the 'everything' kernel, meant
> only to test to make sure everything there compiles properly, and then 
> just as in bsd, config , which leaves a directory
> in /usr/sys/VAX named for the kernel you config'ed, and then in there
> the usual make depend , make vmunix, and you're set. 


Well, yes except that it's binary only, which doesn't just work
as expected. But I found out, /etc/doconfig is an interactive
script that does all the magic for you. I hate to do this interactively,
but at least it got me going. And it's a script, so it can be
seen what it does (among others ln -s ing the BINARY/*.o files to
MYKERNEL/.)

But I noticed two other stange things:

(1) The GENERIC kernel configuration is really neat, it just
says things like (off the top of my head, don't blame me on
detail errors)

controller kdb50 at vaxbi? nexus?
controller kdm70 at nexus?
controller klesib1 at vaxbi? nexus?
disk ra0 at mscp
disk ra1 at mscp
...
tape tms0 at mscp
...

which indeed is very generic. On the other hand, the config file
that doconfig builds for me is very different, having knowledge about
every bit of bus, cables and unit numbers:

controller kdb0 at vaxbi13 nexus3
controller uq4 at kdb50
disk ra8 at uq4 drive8
controller kdm70 at nexus11
controller uq24 at kdm70 vector uqintr
disk ra0 at uq24 drive0
disk ra1 at uq24 drive1
...
controller klesib0 at vaxbi14 nexus3
controller uq22 at klesib0 vector uqintr
tape tms0 at uq22
...

Why would I want to take the above kind of genericity away from
and lock myself into a kernel that only works for a certain
configuration of cards in slots, such that whenever I should swap
a few cards, I have to boot from a reserve GENERIC kernel and
rebuild? If ULTRIX can deal with "nexus?" "vaxbi?" and "mscp"
kinds of generic designators, why would I, why would it want to
use those overly specific ones? And what is 'uq' anyway?



(2) The other little thing is that (a) ULTRIX is not Y2K complient:
I haven't convinced date (or anything else) to accept a century
for setting the clock and it insists on "02" being rounded up
to 1970 :-). (b) I noticed the VAX 6000 has two or three AA
batteries (rechargeables) in its console assembly, would they by
any chance keep a real time clock running such that resetting the
date isn't required all the time (yes I know about time and ntp
but I don't have a reliably on machine at home nor a standing
internet connection.)


cheers,
-Gunther

-
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From petersv at psv.nu  Mon Mar 18 02:43:49 2002
From: petersv at psv.nu (Peter Svensson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Configuring ULTRIX 4.x kernel (was: Re: VAX 6400 booting saga:
 SUCCESS!)
In-Reply-To: <3C958BAE.8090401@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Well, yes except that it's binary only, which doesn't just work
> as expected. But I found out, /etc/doconfig is an interactive
> script that does all the magic for you. I hate to do this interactively,
> but at least it got me going. And it's a script, so it can be
> seen what it does (among others ln -s ing the BINARY/*.o files to
> MYKERNEL/.)

Hm, I dont think that is right. All you have to do is to copy or create a 
configuration file in /usr/sys/conf/vax and then run "./config" on that 
file. This should set everything up for you. Doconfig is a way to create a 
resonable kernel for your hardware.

Peter
--
Peter Svensson      ! Pgp key available by finger, fingerprint:
    ! 8A E9 20 98 C1 FF 43 E3  07 FD B9 0A 80 72 70 AF
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, Luke, your source will be with you... always...



From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Mon Mar 18 03:33:49 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:39:38 EST."
              
Message-ID: <200203180933.JAA29512@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Richard A. Cini, Jr."  said:

> I plan on playing with my old Model 1this weekend so that I can get the
> floppy drive working. Since I suffer from random bit-rot, can someone tell
> me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a
> 48k Level II with the Percom controller and drive. I don't have any disks
> for it any more, but I was going to use the TRS81 emulator to create new
> disks for it.

Probably some version of TRS-DOS.  
I would recommend getting hold of LDOS 5.3.1 which is available for free.
A much nicer operating system, I'm still using it on the emulator on the
Mac.

See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80.html
-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Mon Mar 18 03:39:30 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:08:38 EST."
             <20020318061006.FVPC860.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203180939.JAA29534@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:
 
> Ever wonder why the UK leads the world in game programming?  Answer: ZX81
> and the Spectrum.  These machines taught kids to make the most of the
> hardware.

Absolutely!  I know a (UK) games programmer (recently working in Seattle),
he learned his skills on a ZX81.  

My ZX81 has Forth ROM...I *hate* Basic ;-)
-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Mon Mar 18 03:42:20 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
References: <20020317215339.50187.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C95B67C.EB009518@Vishay.com>

Steve,

but then, you loose the important part:

Loboyko Steve wrote:
> 
> Actually, there is very good documentation on this
> keyboard, and I was considering building a tiny PIC
> "black box" for this purpose  - to convert PC
> scancodes to the 4800 baud TTL serial that the VT320
> expects. I wasn't going to convert each and every key,
> just the ASCII.

The missing F17..F20 keys are the main reason why I use a LK461 keyboard
with my PC (besides the issues with the German keyboard, where things
like the brackets for VMS directories or the backslash for Windoze paths
require the Alt-Gr key). The additional F-keys (no, that's definitely
not a bad word! ;-) are great if you use TPU and want to put a macro on
a free key. I think this must be an issue like the one with the missing
escape key for Teco users.

However, I do not have a pointer to the VT keyboard documentation and
would be interested in this information, so you can save me some
Googling if you have it at hand.

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From foo at siconic.com  Mon Mar 18 03:48:52 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <02Mar18.120446est.119310@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:

> 	Over the last week I've had two different individuals contact
> me and offer me systems.  One was a KIM-1, including all three
> manuals, "KIM Hints" and the classic book "First Book of KIM"...all
> for $25.  The KIM is a Rev. G board and looks to be in really nice
> shape.  He had rescued it from the curbside trash outside of a
> college dorm!

Score!

> 	The second system is a SWTPc 6800.  It includes lots of
> documentation and the SWTPc minidisk system, as well as various FLEX
> disks and a few additional boards.  He's also informed me that he's
> going to include a terminal kit that he had gotten for it.  I believe
> he said that the kit was made by Netronics...I'd have to doublecheck
> that.  It's costing me $50 plus shipping.  I don't actually have it
> yet but am certainly looking forward to receiving it!

Score^^2!

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 18 04:27:24 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020317040912.ESWR21056.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 16, 2 11:07:45 pm
Message-ID: <3C95CF1C.29524.3D923984@localhost>


> > > But surely, if you link up a different keyboard (good idea as the Zx81 
> > > keyboard is unusable IMHO), and then use an LCD display then there's not 
> > > much of the original ZX81 left. 

> > Sure there is.  If you change the keyboard and monitor on a PC it's still a
> > PC -- same for the ZX81.  In most cases we're just adding peripheral i/o

> My point is that there are only 4 chips in the ZX81. The CPU, 1K RAM, 
> BASIC ROM, and the ULA. The ULA is mostly concerned with video output and 
> address deconding.

> And the ZX81 BASIC is so unpleasant (single-key entry -- YUK!) 

Hey, I liked it!

> Therefore it's probably as easy to start with a bare CPU chip...

Maybe, but then you have to make a board, and at least a ZX
compatible edge connector for all the great perhipherals ...
So after all, using a ZX81 is just a cheap way to get exactly
this.

> [1] People who used ZX81s for robotics normally added a 6116 CMOS RAM (at 
> least) onto the expansion connector and removed (or at least disabled) 
> the power-hungry interal RAM.

Wasn't the ZX81 board already prepared to use a 6116 instead ?
At least all the kit boards I ever had (I bought ZX81s only as
kits) did go well with it.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From geoffr at zipcon.net  Mon Mar 18 04:48:08 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318024750.00a6d970@mail.zipcon.net>

Is the percom controller Single or Double density?

At 09:39 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello, all:
>
>         I plan on playing with my old Model 1this weekend so that I can 
> get the
>floppy drive working. Since I suffer from random bit-rot, can someone tell
>me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a
>48k Level II with the Percom controller and drive. I don't have any disks
>for it any more, but I was going to use the TRS81 emulator to create new
>disks for it.
>
>         Thanks.
>
>Rich
>
>Rich Cini
>Collector of classic computers
>Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project
>Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
>/************************************************************/


From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Mon Mar 18 05:00:07 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B1@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>

>Maybe it's related to the age of the keyboards. All the ones I've worked 
>on originally came with VT220s or Bows/Pros/DECmates. I would guess the 
>6805 version came out later.

I'm going to get this wrong here :-) but
isn't the LK201 used on the VT220 (and
later terminals) but the LK201 used on the
Rainbow? (I guess that the Pro 380 et al. 
use the same keyboard as the Rainbow,
but I don't have any of those).

The LK201 specs are in one of the appandices
that come with the VAXstation 3200 manuals
(possibly in the separate VCB02 tech manual).
The Rainbow tech manual almost certainly
includes the LK250 spec (I have that scanned
too, but it's not available anywhere yet, I think).

If someone is looking to develop a PIC LK2xx
implementation, it would be nice to handle
both variants. 

Antonio

From alan.pearson at cramer.com  Mon Mar 18 05:00:15 2002
From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DEC RRD43 terminator
Message-ID: 

Been googling for info on the DEC RRD43 CD drive with
little success over the last couple of days. So, a
couple of questions for the DEC gurus out there:

Does anyone know what the various jumper settings are?
I'm trying to work out how the thing is currently
configured.

There are two "centronics-style" connectors on the back.
Do I need a terminator for one if the other's plugged 
into a VAXstation?

What does it mean when the yellow LED flashes? At the 
moment I don't have a cable to hook it up so I switched
it on standalone just to see what happened. The yellow
LED flashes and the only way I can open the CD tray is 
to stick an unfolded paperclip into the release hole :-)
Is this something to worry about or just due to the drive
not being hooked up to the VAXstation?

TIA
Al.

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 06:09:18 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B1@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B1@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
Message-ID: <02Mar18.120446est.119310@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

	Over the last week I've had two different individuals contact 
me and offer me systems.  One was a KIM-1, including all three 
manuals, "KIM Hints" and the classic book "First Book of KIM"...all 
for $25.  The KIM is a Rev. G board and looks to be in really nice 
shape.  He had rescued it from the curbside trash outside of a 
college dorm!

	The second system is a SWTPc 6800.  It includes lots of 
documentation and the SWTPc minidisk system, as well as various FLEX 
disks and a few additional boards.  He's also informed me that he's 
going to include a terminal kit that he had gotten for it.  I believe 
he said that the kit was made by Netronics...I'd have to doublecheck 
that.  It's costing me $50 plus shipping.  I don't actually have it 
yet but am certainly looking forward to receiving it!

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From flo at uk.thalesgroup.com  Mon Mar 18 06:37:34 2002
From: flo at uk.thalesgroup.com (Paul Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: LK201 specification
Message-ID: <3C95DF8E.6317FA02@uk.thalesgroup.com>

LK201 specification:

ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/lk200fs.doc

This is a plain text file, not an MS Word document!

The specs are also in the VT220 Technical Manual. I've not checked to
see whether they are identical.

- Paul

From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Mon Mar 18 07:07:00 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Configuring ULTRIX 4.x kernel (was: Re: VAX 6400 booting saga:
 SUCCESS!)
In-Reply-To: <3C958BAE.8090401@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> (2) The other little thing is that (a) ULTRIX is not Y2K complient:
> I haven't convinced date (or anything else) to accept a century
> for setting the clock and it insists on "02" being rounded up
> to 1970 :-). (b) I noticed the VAX 6000 has two or three AA
> batteries (rechargeables) in its console assembly, would they by
> any chance keep a real time clock running such that resetting the
> date isn't required all the time (yes I know about time and ntp
> but I don't have a reliably on machine at home nor a standing
> internet connection.)

There was a kit for 4.5 to help with y2k. I only have the mips version.

-- 


From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Mon Mar 18 07:11:06 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DEC RRD43 terminator
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Alan Pearson wrote:

> Does anyone know what the various jumper settings are?
> I'm trying to work out how the thing is currently
> configured.

If this is the OEM toshiba I might have them.

> There are two "centronics-style" connectors on the back.
> Do I need a terminator for one if the other's plugged 
> into a VAXstation?

Yes.

> What does it mean when the yellow LED flashes? At the 
> moment I don't have a cable to hook it up so I switched
> it on standalone just to see what happened. The yellow
> LED flashes and the only way I can open the CD tray is 
> to stick an unfolded paperclip into the release hole :-)
> Is this something to worry about or just due to the drive
> not being hooked up to the VAXstation?

I think it just means that no cable and/or terminator is hooked up.  
That's how the toshiba models work, anyhow.

-- 


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 08:01:11 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020318140111.15071.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Doc  wrote:
>   I must admit I got no clue what an "Oerstedt" is.  Or why I need to
> know....

Let's put it this way... it's another physical measurement of the
diskettes you want to use.  Let's say someone from Europe told you
that you needed to use (and I'm approximating here) 133mm disks.
It's just another physical parameter.  Mixing up 300 Oerstedt media
with 360 Oerstedt media is akin to wanting a 3" disk and trying to
use a 3.5" disk.  The largest difference in that case is that you
can hold up the two sizes of disks and see plainly that one is not
identical to the other.  With the wrong media coercitivity (but the
proper physical media size), it *looks* like it should work, but
when you go back for you data, it might not be there.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Mon Mar 18 08:02:14 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
Message-ID: <000801c1ce85$831be460$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Err, whatcha gonna format the media on, Doc!

If memory serves...  TRSDOS used delete address marks
and only a system with 1771 can write it...  Oops!

It's possible there are later version that are cleaned in that
respect.

Allison


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. 
To: ClassCompList 
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question


Hello, all:

I plan on playing with my old Model 1this weekend so that I can get the
floppy drive working. Since I suffer from random bit-rot, can someone tell
me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a
48k Level II with the Percom controller and drive. I don't have any disks
for it any more, but I was going to use the TRS81 emulator to create new
disks for it.

Thanks.

Rich

Rich Cini
Collector of classic computers
Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project
Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
/************************************************************/






From skate at ao.net  Mon Mar 18 08:05:11 2002
From: skate at ao.net (Freddy Zapata)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: AS/400?
Message-ID: 

I have the same hardware as on this message but again I no idea where to
start.  Can anyone help me/point me as to where to start so I can start
experimenting with this box?.

Freddy Zapata
skate@ao.net



From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Mon Mar 18 08:12:53 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
Message-ID: <002701c1ce86$ffc19220$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Ok,

The LK201, 301 and 401 are interchangeable, regardless of the cpu
used internally.  There is NO VAX, Decmate, Pro version or 
rainbow version save for different colored key caps.  I regually swap 
LKx01 where x={2,3,4} keyboards with any VAX, Decmate, VT220, 
320, 330, 340, Pro3xx and friends.  They all used the same cord set.

I happen to prefer older LK201 for keyfeel, and later LK401s for 
the sculptured layout.

The LK250 however is a TOTALLY different animal and uses 
different keycoding to be compatable with PCs or VAXmate 
(a sorta PC).  There are several different cordsets for this one.

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Carlini, Antonio 
To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' 
Date: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:24 AM
Subject: RE: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers


>>Maybe it's related to the age of the keyboards. All the ones I've worked 
>>on originally came with VT220s or Bows/Pros/DECmates. I would guess the 
>>6805 version came out later.
>
>I'm going to get this wrong here :-) but
>isn't the LK201 used on the VT220 (and
>later terminals) but the LK201 used on the
>Rainbow? (I guess that the Pro 380 et al. 
>use the same keyboard as the Rainbow,
>but I don't have any of those).
>
>The LK201 specs are in one of the appandices
>that come with the VAXstation 3200 manuals
>(possibly in the separate VCB02 tech manual).
>The Rainbow tech manual almost certainly
>includes the LK250 spec (I have that scanned
>too, but it's not available anywhere yet, I think).
>
>If someone is looking to develop a PIC LK2xx
>implementation, it would be nice to handle
>both variants. 
>
>Antonio


From rhb57 at vol.com  Mon Mar 18 08:33:24 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: AS/400?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

There is a site specific to AS/400 but may not apply to your machine but
it's a good place to start. BTW your box should run OS/400, maybe others
butI've never seen other than OS/400 used on any I've have dealing with.

http://resources.midrange.com/Internet/

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Freddy Zapata
=> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 8:05 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: AS/400?
=>
=>
=> I have the same hardware as on this message but again I no idea where to
=> start.  Can anyone help me/point me as to where to start so I can start
=> experimenting with this box?.
=>
=> Freddy Zapata
=> skate@ao.net
=>
=>
=>


From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Mon Mar 18 08:43:13 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:02:14 EST."
             <000801c1ce85$831be460$3a7b7b7b@ajp> 
Message-ID: <200203181443.OAA01296@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Allison"  said:
> Err, whatcha gonna format the media on, Doc!
> 
> If memory serves...  TRSDOS used delete address marks
> and only a system with 1771 can write it...  Oops!
> 
> It's possible there are later version that are cleaned in that
> respect.

Good point.  With LDOS, I think you just need a controller that can 
write single density, assuming you can get/write a program to do the
writing.  My need is the other way - reading old TRS80 disks to
transfer to an emulator. I have a progrom (READDISK) but haven't
found the right controller yet...

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 18 09:11:48 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <20020318140111.15071.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020318101148.007fe340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 06:01 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>--- Doc  wrote:
>>   I must admit I got no clue what an "Oerstedt" is.  Or why I need to
>> know....

    Oerstedt is a measure of how easy or difficult it is to magnetize
something. In this case, the magnetic media on the disk.  It's **roughly**
the same thing that ohms are to current flow in an electrical conductor.
Drives are designed to create a certain strength magnetic field and you
need to match the magnetic media to that strength. It's important because
too strong a field can cause a disk can become so magnetized that a drive
can't erase or write new data to it and it has to be bulk erased. OTOH too
week field can leave a disk that has unreliable reads.  Fortunately it's
usually real easy to right the right media since disk specifications are
pretty standardized. Just use the disk that's designed to operate with the
drive that you're using.  Generally thre are only three types (in the 5
1/4" size); DSDD, DSQD and DSHD.  The DSDD and DSQD disks both use 300
Oerstedt media but have 40 and 80 tracks (actually cylinders if you're
fussy about the correct terminology) respectively; DSHD (1.2M) also uses 80
tracks but uses 600 Oerstedt media.
 
   I recommended that you try and find a QD drive but several people have
correctly (and vigorously!) pointed out that a 1.2Mb drive does use 80
tracks and that you COULD use one of them. (once you over come the possible
double stepping and write-strength pin select problems!)  The problem is
that they use a different magnetic field strength and I've had that led to
trouble, partricularly in long term storage.  For me it's easier to get the
CORRECT drive and media than it is to cobble something up that may or may
not work or be reliable!

   Joe


   Joe


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 09:39:54 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Paul Thompson wrote:
>
> With a full install of Ultrix there is a utility called itc which will do
> image tape copies.  I have successfully made an image of the Microvax Diag
> and booted from the copies.  It is possible that itc might run in Ultrix
> compat. mode on netbsd.  It is actually a c source code example installed
> with the examples subsets.

  I don't have Ultrix.  Care to email or post the source?  Maybe it'll
compile on NetBSD.

	Doc


From allain at panix.com  Mon Mar 18 09:54:06 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
References: <016501c1cdcc$1a597fa0$0ff09a8d@ajp166>
Message-ID: <00ab01c1ce95$22d33300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> Yes it will, however you need to supply the parameters 
> for that where the RDxx types are already known.  

Awrite, now, how does a person translate a geometry to 
a DEC drive type?  For that matter I don't know which TEST
it is, but either way I don't imagine that the formatter has a
help option...  Does it?


> You should have two VS2000.  They are small and they 
> also make a fun uVAX!  The second of course is for formatting

I have some here but I haven't tested them because there
was no monitor with them.  I have some cables and monitors 
for uVaxIIGPX and uV3100 but am not sure thay are compatible
and don't want to break anything.  Its a DB25 phobia.  Most 
listers are aware of what problems can come from expecting
compatibility between any two randomly selected DB25 items
(like printing and SCSI, for example).  A DEC cable number
would be useful here.

John A.



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 09:57:51 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
Message-ID: <02Mar18.121358est.119110@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

	Over the last week I've had two different individuals contact 
me and offer me systems.  One was a KIM-1, including all three 
manuals, "KIM Hints" and the classic book "First Book of KIM"...all 
for $25.  The KIM is a Rev. G board and looks to be in really nice 
shape.  He had rescued it from the curbside trash outside of a 
college dorm!

	The second system is a SWTPc 6800.  It includes lots of 
documentation and the SWTPc minidisk system, as well as various FLEX 
disks and a few additional boards.  He's also informed me that he's 
going to include a terminal kit that he had gotten for it.  I believe 
he said that the kit was made by Netronics...I'd have to doublecheck 
that.  It's costing me $50 plus shipping.  I don't actually have it 
yet but am certainly looking forward to receiving it!

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 10:10:09 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
Message-ID: 

OK, Friends & Neighbors.
  First, I'm starting to think that the original tape is damaged.  The
cptape utility suggested by Jochen seems to be Doing The Right Thing,
but gets errors.  dd has no qualms at all as long as the TKZ50-GA is set
to a variable blocksize, but errors out on file #7. If I set
"conv=noerror" for dd to ignore read errors, it saws away forever at
the same file.  And, if I boot the uVAX from either the original or the
one "probably good" copy [1], sometimes it sees the RD53 disks as RD51.
Not consistently.  When it does, it hangs solid on a custom format.

  I'll be putting the -GA on a VMS box this evening and try the VMSTPCE
copy.  It makes sense to make the tape in its native OS.


 [1]  I did get a good set of files with the TUHS cptape.  Problem is
that AFAICT the partner program, maketape, only understands 512*N
blocksizes.  The diags tape has a lot of files in 80B blocks.  The good
copy was made with dd, setting blocksize file by file.  82 files,
that is....
  Anybody remember the Bash test statement for
 [ FILE  FILE] ?  It would come in REAL handy, and I'm
having a brain-fart.


	Doc


From allain at panix.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:02 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
References: <016501c1cdcc$1a597fa0$0ff09a8d@ajp166> <00ab01c1ce95$22d33300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <018401c1ce9c$403f6100$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Small ammendments to my previous message.

I found Kee's info on TEST 70.  Thanks!

> don't want to break anything.  Its a DB25 phobia.

OK, the Connector is a D?15, not a DB25.
Same issue though, the only cabling I have
here with keyboard out is for uVII/GPX.
Compatible?

John A.



From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 18 10:52:26 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B36@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org]

> Please read the entire message below from the list admin (who 
> is trying very
> hard not to come out of his skin and choke someone)...

I, for one, wouldn't blame you if you did.

> You wrote...
> > > > I don't think Jay has enough time to manage the list anymore.  I
> suggest
> > > > we find a new operator.

> What color is the sky in your world?

I don't recall whether I responded to this, myself,
but my response would have been along the same lines.

> As a side comment - It's rather amusing that some people have 
> told me I do
> too much, others are now telling me I do too little. Hummm

Too much, in the sense of "you don't really have to 
do all of this?"  Or too much as in "you're getting
heavy handed?"  I find the latter hard to believe,
but would agree with the former.  It's been said
before, though, this is your list, no matter how much
some people may like to complain about it.

> For example - take a look at the subject of this thread "Big African
> Grifters". Hummm ya think maybe that might be something I 
> wouldn't care to
> read? Why did I finally see this convo? Because someone had 

I have to offer the observation that if everyone did
this, they'd just delete all the emails with the 
subject "Make Money Fast@!@@!@!!!!", and this spam
thing would never come up. :)

Some people have a strange need to read every piece
of spam that they come across, even if they're 
marked clearly.

> the forsight to
> put "list management" at the front of the subject. I submit 
> that most people
> skim the list the same way I do, watching the subject lines 
> for something

Well, see my comment above. ;)

> on the list privately about it, and I will announce my 
> intended solution as
> soon as I am damn well ready to commit to something. Yes, I 

Anyway, the point of this was to express my support
of your basically doing whatever you "damn well" 
please with your time, resources, and mailing list.

Chris

Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 18 10:58:01 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B38@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com]

> want the job.  There are too many god damned whiners on this list.

Now that I can agree with.  :)  Let's all agree to stop
whining about all of the spam now.

(Sorry guys, I couldn't resist that one.)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Mon Mar 18 11:01:45 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
Message-ID: <001e01c1ce9e$9773fc40$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: John Allain 
>Awrite, now, how does a person translate a geometry to 
>a DEC drive type?  For that matter I don't know which TEST
>it is, but either way I don't imagine that the formatter has a
>help option...  Does it?

NO help I know of.  It does ask for the parameters but not 
in RDxx equivelent form.  

>I have some here but I haven't tested them because there
>was no monitor with them.  I have some cables and monitors 
>for uVaxIIGPX and uV3100 but am not sure thay are compatible
>and don't want to break anything.  Its a DB25 phobia.  Most 
>listers are aware of what problems can come from expecting
>compatibility between any two randomly selected DB25 items
>(like printing and SCSI, for example).  A DEC cable number
>would be useful here.

Monitor not required.

You can use it with a Vt220 or equivelent.  the cable needed
is BC09 (it has pin 9 connected to ground).  That is a nine 
pin cable with a 25 pin connector at the other end.

VS2k pinouts and other details are on the net, try google.


Allison



From seunggoo at caltech.edu  Mon Mar 18 11:19:15 2002
From: seunggoo at caltech.edu (Seung-Goo Kim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Sony FDD MFD-17W-L5(MD-F17W-L5)
Message-ID: 

I have Sony FDD named MFD-17W-L5(or MD-F17W-L5). It has black mounting panel and one selection switch that has 4 selections from 0 to 3. When the switch set 2,  it works after booting. However, I cannot boot using this FDD. And the LED does not work during reading/writing. Please let me know how can I boot using this FDD and make LED run. My compuster is composed of super 7 M/B(PC-Chips M577) with AWADR BIOS, K6-233 CPU, and Windows 98se. Thanks...

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 11:43:24 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <02Mar18.135933est.119310@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

>On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:
>>  me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a
>
>TRS-DOS by Randy Cook
>The first version that I remember being able to use was 2.0
>2.1 was significantly more complete, but buggy.  Randy Cook never finished
>it; Radio Shack wouldn't pay him royalties.
>
>APR-DOS (Later "New-DOS") from Apparat was based on TRS-DOS 2.1 with most
>of the bugs fixed and a few enhancements.
>Initially Apparat told people to buy TRS-DOS plus theirs to avoid
>copyright infringement.  Documentation consisted of a list of bug fixes to
>2.1
>Then they apparently tried to claim that it was completely
>re-written, and therefore not infringing, until Randy Cook's lawyer showed
>them Randy Cook's hidden copyright message was still present in theirs.
>
>TRS-DOS 2.2 and 2.3 were cleaner than 2.1, but not as fancy as New-DOS. 
>But the "Randy Cook" hidden copyright message was changed to "Tandy Corp"
>
>Then Apparat produced their non-infringing NewDos-80
>
>Then Randy Cook came out VTOS 3.0, but never finished it. 
>"Documentation" was mostly just a feature list.  The publisher wouldn't
>pay him royalties.
>
>Then Randy Cook came out VTOS 4.0, but never finished it. 
>"Documentation" was mostly just a feature list.  The publisher (Adventure
>International/Scott Adams) wouldn't pay him royalties.
>
>Lobo Drives created a new expansion interface using a 179x chip for double
>density; TRS-DOS would not work with it.  They purchased rights to VTOS,
>hired everybody they could get their hands on (such as Roy Soltoff aka
>Misosys), and came out with LDOS.
>
>Radio Shack came out with the model 3, and Model 3 TRS-DOS 1.1, 1.2, 1.3
>
>Radio Shack came out with their own version of the Percom Doubler (179x
>for model 1).  And licensed LDOS, renaming it TRS-DOS 6.  Randy Cook
>finally got royalties from Radio Shack.

	A nice twisting chain of events.  Not included in the above 
chain are also:

	- DOSPlus (Micro-System Software)
	- DoubleDOS (Percom)
	- MultiDOS (Cosmopolitan)
	- UltraDOS (Level IV Products)

	I've always used the various Tandy and Logical Systems DOSes 
myself, so have never tried any of the above four myself.  Ira 
Goldklang does provide disk images of various Model I DOSes on his 
emulator page though, including most of the ones listed above.

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From dittman at dittman.net  Mon Mar 18 11:49:30 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <200203180939.JAA29534@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Mar 18, 2002 09:39:30 AM
Message-ID: <200203181749.g2IHnUu30251@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> My ZX81 has Forth ROM...I *hate* Basic ;-)

Is this the ROM from the Jupiter Ace?
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 12:01:33 2002
From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
Message-ID: 

FWIW,
I have like 4 MVII diag tapes...

Will J

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Mon Mar 18 12:12:49 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:
> me which disk operating system shipped with the drive option? My system is a

TRS-DOS by Randy Cook
The first version that I remember being able to use was 2.0
2.1 was significantly more complete, but buggy.  Randy Cook never finished
it; Radio Shack wouldn't pay him royalties.

APR-DOS (Later "New-DOS") from Apparat was based on TRS-DOS 2.1 with most
of the bugs fixed and a few enhancements.
Initially Apparat told people to buy TRS-DOS plus theirs to avoid
copyright infringement.  Documentation consisted of a list of bug fixes to
2.1
Then they apparently tried to claim that it was completely
re-written, and therefore not infringing, until Randy Cook's lawyer showed
them Randy Cook's hidden copyright message was still present in theirs.

TRS-DOS 2.2 and 2.3 were cleaner than 2.1, but not as fancy as New-DOS.  
But the "Randy Cook" hidden copyright message was changed to "Tandy Corp"

Then Apparat produced their non-infringing NewDos-80

Then Randy Cook came out VTOS 3.0, but never finished it.  
"Documentation" was mostly just a feature list.  The publisher wouldn't
pay him royalties.

Then Randy Cook came out VTOS 4.0, but never finished it.  
"Documentation" was mostly just a feature list.  The publisher (Adventure
International/Scott Adams) wouldn't pay him royalties.

Lobo Drives created a new expansion interface using a 179x chip for double
density; TRS-DOS would not work with it.  They purchased rights to VTOS,
hired everybody they could get their hands on (such as Roy Soltoff aka
Misosys), and came out with LDOS. 

Radio Shack came out with the model 3, and Model 3 TRS-DOS 1.1, 1.2, 1.3

Radio Shack came out with their own version of the Percom Doubler (179x
for model 1).  And licensed LDOS, renaming it TRS-DOS 6.  Randy Cook
finally got royalties from Radio Shack.



From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 12:26:40 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Will Jennings wrote:

> FWIW,
> I have like 4 MVII diag tapes...

  Are they the Customer Diags or the Diag & Maint versions?

	Doc


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Mon Mar 18 12:32:24 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:
> > Which bits in particular are you having problems with? Much of this
> > doesn't matter for your problem (because by your good luck everything is
> > compatible), but you might want to understand it all anyway.
>   Why it was germane to the issue at hand?  I understand, at least
> generally, the mechanics and relative formats of the drives and disks
> involved, but the ongoing discussion was getting me to think there were
> issues that I was completely missing.

Much of the discussion centered around issues that turned out to not be
relevant, such as whether the ALtos was MFM v GCR (MFM), sector size (you
got lucky with 512), sectors per track (you got lucky with 9), and what
kinds of problems COULD occur with writing 720K in a 1.2M.

>   I must admit I got no clue what an "Oerstedt" is. 

The unit used for measuring coercivity (LOOSELY: magnetic sensitivity of
the disk).  
> Or why I need to know....
just part of the explanation of WHY to use 360K v 1.2M blanks.


>   Kewl.  I'm gonna have one someday.  A TRS-80, that is.
Mine are all gone.  It HURT to part with them.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Mon Mar 18 12:37:02 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318024750.00a6d970@mail.zipcon.net>
Message-ID: 

> >48k Level II with the Percom controller and drive. I don't have any disks
> Is the percom controller Single or Double density?

I don't remember a Percom controller.  Was it a replacement for the RS
"Expansion Interface" (which included 1771 singel density)?

 But they did make a sandwich board to insert data separation with the
singel density 1771 RS controller, and they made the "Doubler" with added
a 179x double density to the 1771 single density RS controller.



From Gary.Messick at itt.com  Mon Mar 18 12:47:36 2002
From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD7044689C1@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Shannon [mailto:bshannon@tiac.net]
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 10:23 AM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
> 
> 
> Perhaps List members can help the list manger out here.
> 
> I'm located in centeral Mass, and I have a 6 foot DEC rack 
> with a PDP 11/34a
> that has Jay's name on it.
> 
> Any ideas how we might get this machine to Jay?
> 
> 

I'm headed out to Boston over the holiday weekend with a full size van.  I
could get it back as far as Fort Wayne, IN.

Let me know!

Gary

************************************ 
If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the
delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may
contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information.  In such a case, you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone.  You should destroy this message and
kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Information contained in this
message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by
nor attributable to ITT. 
************************************ 


From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 12:53:23 2002
From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
Message-ID: 

I'll have to check... Hell, if people want me to, I'll post a list of all my 
DEC SW on TK50 to the list...

Will J

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Mon Mar 18 13:00:06 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: <02Mar18.135933est.119310@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:
> 	A nice twisting chain of events.  Not included in the above 
> chain are also:
> 	- DOSPlus (Micro-System Software)
> 	- DoubleDOS (Percom)
> 	- MultiDOS (Cosmopolitan)
> 	- UltraDOS (Level IV Products)

	- MicroDOS (Micropolis - completely unrelated to TRS-DOS)

As long as we're including ones that were not explicitly inline in the
TRS-DOS geneology, there were also a bunch of CP/M mods:
	- FMG? (relocated)
	- Omicron (with 8" support)
	- Parasitic Engineering (with 8" support, by Howard Fullmer (later
chief engineer at Morrow))
and model 3 CP/Ms, such as Hurricane Labs and Montezuma Micro (Ron Jones
was quite a character - remember the media flap about his having "John,
eat shit and die" written in a lot of his blank sectors?)

And then Radio Shack came out with the model 4 which could properly
support CP/M and had CP/M-Plus (aka CP/M version 4)




From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Mon Mar 18 13:05:12 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: Sony FDD MFD-17W-L5(MD-F17W-L5)
References: 
Message-ID: <3C963A68.E6660694@Vishay.com>


Seung-Goo Kim wrote:
> 
> I have Sony FDD named MFD-17W-L5(or MD-F17W-L5). It has black mounting panel and one selection switch that has 4 selections from 0 to 3. When the switch set 2,  it works after booting. However, I cannot boot using this FDD. And the LED does not work during reading/writing. Please let me know how can I boot using this FDD and make LED run. My compuster is composed of super 7 M/B(PC-Chips M577) with AWADR BIOS, K6-233 CPU, and Windows 98se. Thanks...

And my answer is:

See, this list is dealing with computers that are _at_least_ ten years
old.

I doubt any of your hardware qualifies for that, so maybe you better ask
again in one of those many PeeCee mailing lists that are around most
anywhere.

>From general technical knowledge (I hope never to be a PC expert at
all!): if the drive works fine after booting, then probably your BIOS
needs some tuning, like setting the boot order in which drives are
tried. If you have never touched those CMOS RAM settings yourself,
you'll want to ask someone for help with this.

Changing the switch on the drive will probably make it either drive A:
or B:, I guess; the other two positions will probably be useless for
mounting in a PC. They were for real computers, at times when real
computers would use floppy drives, and before the PCs messed up
everything accepted as standards before (like having four drive select
lines on ST506, not two as in "A: or B:") (or like setting drive
identity with a switch on the drive, not by twisting a cable).

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Mon Mar 18 13:05:48 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:31 2005
Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
Message-ID: <200203181905.AA07296@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:10:09 -0600 (CST)
> From: Doc Shipley 
> To: Classic Computers 
> Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> OK, Friends & Neighbors.
>   First, I'm starting to think that the original tape is damaged.  The
> cptape utility suggested by Jochen seems to be Doing The Right Thing,
> but gets errors.  dd has no qualms at all as long as the TKZ50-GA is set
> to a variable blocksize, but errors out on file #7. If I set
> "conv=noerror" for dd to ignore read errors, it saws away forever at
> the same file.  And, if I boot the uVAX from either the original or the
> one "probably good" copy [1], sometimes it sees the RD53 disks as RD51.
> Not consistently.  When it does, it hangs solid on a custom format.
>
>   I'll be putting the -GA on a VMS box this evening and try the VMSTPCE
> copy.  It makes sense to make the tape in its native OS.
>
>
>  [1]  I did get a good set of files with the TUHS cptape.  Problem is
> that AFAICT the partner program, maketape, only understands 512*N
> blocksizes.  The diags tape has a lot of files in 80B blocks.  The good
> copy was made with dd, setting blocksize file by file.  82 files,
> that is....

Here are a few shell scripts that might be useful.  Originally run on 
Ultrix 1.2 on a VaxStation II but should be more general than that.
Written for the specific purpose of investigating and duplicating
MVAX diagnostic TK50 tapes.

    carl
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
#! /bin/sh
# This is a shell archive, meaning:
# 1. Remove everything above the #! /bin/sh line.
# 2. Save the resulting text in a file.
# 3. Execute the file with /bin/sh (not csh) to create the files:
#	tapemap.sh
#	read_tape.sh
#	write_tape.sh
# This archive created: Tue Jan  5 08:21:44 1993
export PATH; PATH=/bin:$PATH
echo shar: extracting "'tapemap.sh'" '(161 characters)'
if test -f 'tapemap.sh'
then
	echo shar: will not over-write existing file "'tapemap.sh'"
else
sed 's/^X//' << \SHAR_EOF > 'tapemap.sh'
X#!/bin/sh
Xwhile :
Xdo
Xdd if=/dev/nrmt0 cbs=80 conv=unblock >>logfile
Xdd if=/dev/nrmt0 of=/dev/null 2>>logfile
Xdd if=/dev/nrmt0 cbs=80 conv=unblock >>logfile
Xdone
SHAR_EOF
if test 161 -ne "`wc -c < 'tapemap.sh'`"
then
	echo shar: error transmitting "'tapemap.sh'" '(should have been 161 characters)'
fi
chmod +x 'tapemap.sh'
fi # end of overwriting check
echo shar: extracting "'read_tape.sh'" '(356 characters)'
if test -f 'read_tape.sh'
then
	echo shar: will not over-write existing file "'read_tape.sh'"
else
sed 's/^X//' << \SHAR_EOF > 'read_tape.sh'
X#!/bin/sh
X# read_tape.sh
X#	read MicroVax diagnostic tape into an assortment of files
X#
Xdir=/data
Xtape=/dev/nrmt0
X
Xmkdir $dir/hdr
Xmkdir $dir/txt
Xmkdir $dir/eof
X
Xmt -f /dev/rmt0 rew
Xi=1
Xwhile [ "$i" -le 108 ]
Xdo
X	dd if=$tape bs=80 of=$dir/hdr/$i
X	dd if=$tape bs=512 of=$dir/txt/$i
X	dd if=$tape bs=80 of=$dir/eof/$i
X	i=`expr $i + 1`
Xdone
X
Xmt -f /dev/rmt0 rew
SHAR_EOF
if test 356 -ne "`wc -c < 'read_tape.sh'`"
then
	echo shar: error transmitting "'read_tape.sh'" '(should have been 356 characters)'
fi
chmod +x 'read_tape.sh'
fi # end of overwriting check
echo shar: extracting "'write_tape.sh'" '(348 characters)'
if test -f 'write_tape.sh'
then
	echo shar: will not over-write existing file "'write_tape.sh'"
else
sed 's/^X//' << \SHAR_EOF > 'write_tape.sh'
X#!/bin/sh
X# write_tape.sh
X#	write MicroVax diagnostic tape from an assortment of files
X#
Xdir=.
Xtape=/dev/nrmt0
X
Xmt -f /dev/rmt0 rew
Xi=1
Xwhile [ "$i" -le 108 ]
Xdo
X	echo "     file $i"
X	dd of=$tape bs=80 if=$dir/hdr/$i
X	dd of=$tape bs=512 if=$dir/txt/$i
X	dd of=$tape bs=80 if=$dir/eof/$i
X	i=`expr $i + 1`
Xdone
Xmt -f $tape weof 2
Xmt -f /dev/rmt0 rew
X
SHAR_EOF
if test 348 -ne "`wc -c < 'write_tape.sh'`"
then
	echo shar: error transmitting "'write_tape.sh'" '(should have been 348 characters)'
fi
chmod +x 'write_tape.sh'
fi # end of overwriting check
#	End of shell archive
exit 0


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Mon Mar 18 13:13:28 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" 
        "Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam" (Mar 18, 11:27)
References: <20020317040912.ESWR21056.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
	from "Glen Goodwin" at  Mar  16 
	2 11:07:45 pm <3C95CF1C.29524.3D923984@localhost>
Message-ID: <10203181913.ZM10900@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 18, 11:27, Hans Franke wrote:

> > [1] People who used ZX81s for robotics normally added a 6116 CMOS RAM
(at
> > least) onto the expansion connector and removed (or at least disabled)
> > the power-hungry interal RAM.
>
> Wasn't the ZX81 board already prepared to use a 6116 instead ?

Yes, it was.  I put 6116's in several.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Mon Mar 18 13:25:28 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:49:30 CST."
             <200203181749.g2IHnUu30251@narnia.int.dittman.net> 
Message-ID: <200203181925.TAA02449@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

Eric Dittman  said:
> > My ZX81 has Forth ROM...I *hate* Basic ;-)
> 
> Is this the ROM from the Jupiter Ace?

No, it's Skywave Forth which was available as a replacement ROM
from David(?) Husband in Bournemouth, England circa 1983.

Fig-forth based with multi-tasking and multiple (text) windows were 
the main features.

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 13:36:03 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Will Jennings wrote:

> I'll have to check... Hell, if people want me to, I'll post a list of all my
> DEC SW on TK50 to the list...

  Pant, pant, droool....

	Doc


From donm at cts.com  Mon Mar 18 13:47:28 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: (fwd) cp/m-86 computers looking for a good home (fwd)
Message-ID: 


Please respond to drafter of email below - not to me.

						 - don

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Message-ID: <3C963670.A59AE0AA@mentor.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:48:16 -0800
From: Keith Linehan 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm
CC: keith_linehan@mentor.com
Subject: cp/m-86 computers looking for a good home
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: w35d157.wv.mentorg.com
X-Original-Trace: 18 Mar 2002 10:48:20 -0800, w35d157.wv.mentorg.com
Lines: 39
NNTP-Posting-Host: solnews.wv.mentorg.com
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: solnews.wv.mentorg.com
X-Trace: newsgw.mentorg.com 1016477303 solnews.wv.mentorg.com (18 Mar 2002 10:48:23 -0800)
Path: news20!uunet!ash.uu.net!dca.uu.net!newsgw.mentorg.com!solnews.wv.mentorg.com!w35d157.wv.mentorg.com
Xref: news20 comp.os.cpm:47990


I am in the process of gathering together all of my old
cp/m-86 stuff and am looking for a good home for it, or
it must all end up at the recycler or dump.

I am in the Portland Oregon area.

I have 3 complete systems and many many extra parts that
could keep them running until the next millenium.  They
are of around 1982 technology.

The systems consist of:

CPU Unit:
Tektronix 4170's with 80186/87 processors, dual 5-1/4" floppies,
dual 5 meg ST506 disk drives, and 1 meg of memory, many serial
ports, and one parallel and SCSI port

Source code for OS, and some source code available
for other programs.   Software for CAD, CAM, color drawing,
and even some good graphic games.  SuperCalc, Wordstar, DRgraph,
ReportStar, Technicad, Kermit, C-Compiler, etc.  All books for
software and hardware available.

Display Unit:
Tektronix 4107 color graphics terminals

Other Stuff:
   outboard disk drives in cabinets
   pen plotter
   graphic input tablet
   dot matrix printer


Please let me know if there is any interest.

Thanks,
Keith Linehan
keith_linehan@mentor.com
-- end of forwarded message --


From tom at sba.miami.edu  Mon Mar 18 13:55:55 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <3C929162.50C62BFF@idirect.com>
Message-ID: 



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:

> Also, while the normal ISO file structure probably will NOT
> easily allow (if at all) RT-11 partitions to be written on 65536
> block boundaries, for RT-11, that is essential.

Why would you be using ISO?  My plan was just to dd copy (with unix
cdrecord) a bootable RT-11 SCSI disk to the CD.  Assuming that if I had a
bootable RT-11 SCSI disk as /dev/rz4c on a unix machine, with cdrecord, I
would just do this:

dd if=/dev/rz4c ibs=64k obs=64k | cdrecord -dev 3,5,0 -speed=2 -

Will this work?

This week, I'm going to hook up my remaining RX02 drive to a VMS machine
and copy the data off the RX02's.  At that point, all I should need is an
image of v5.03 of RT-11 with my program, which I can then burn to a CD.

I'm still trying to scrape up a SCSI controller, but other than that, I
think I should be okay.

Anyone see any problems with this?

Thanks,

Tom


From edick at idcomm.com  Mon Mar 18 13:59:33 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Sony FDD MFD-17W-L5(MD-F17W-L5)
References:  <3C963A68.E6660694@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c1ceb7$6c886660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

This particular drive may qualify ...  anyway, with all the OT stuff that gets
chewed and spat about on this list, there's no need to beat this guy up.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Freiherr" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Sony FDD MFD-17W-L5(MD-F17W-L5)


>
> Seung-Goo Kim wrote:
> >
> > I have Sony FDD named MFD-17W-L5(or MD-F17W-L5). It has black mounting
panel and one selection switch that has 4 selections from 0 to 3. When the
switch set 2,  it works after booting. However, I cannot boot using this FDD.
And the LED does not work during reading/writing. Please let me know how can I
boot using this FDD and make LED run. My compuster is composed of super 7
M/B(PC-Chips M577) with AWADR BIOS, K6-233 CPU, and Windows 98se. Thanks...
>
> And my answer is:
>
> See, this list is dealing with computers that are _at_least_ ten years
> old.
>
> I doubt any of your hardware qualifies for that, so maybe you better ask
> again in one of those many PeeCee mailing lists that are around most
> anywhere.
>
> From general technical knowledge (I hope never to be a PC expert at
> all!): if the drive works fine after booting, then probably your BIOS
> needs some tuning, like setting the boot order in which drives are
> tried. If you have never touched those CMOS RAM settings yourself,
> you'll want to ask someone for help with this.
>
> Changing the switch on the drive will probably make it either drive A:
> or B:, I guess; the other two positions will probably be useless for
> mounting in a PC. They were for real computers, at times when real
> computers would use floppy drives, and before the PCs messed up
> everything accepted as standards before (like having four drive select
> lines on ST506, not two as in "A: or B:") (or like setting drive
> identity with a switch on the drive, not by twisting a cable).
>
> --
> Andreas Freiherr
> Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
> http://www.vishay.com
>
>


From mrbill at mrbill.net  Mon Mar 18 14:31:38 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: FREE STUFF (Austin, TX)
Message-ID: <20020318203138.GA26568@mrbill.net>

I've got the following Sun VME boards.  Free for pickup in Austin, TX;          
if you want me to ship any of them, you'll have to pay shipping and             
make it worth my while to pack them up, etc.                                    
                                                                                
501 1767 - 4/6x0 memory board                                                   
 pic at http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/memoryboard.jpg.html         
                                                                                
501 1855 - IPI controller (x4)                                                  
501 1221 - Comm Processor II                                                    
501 1203 - ALM-2                                                                
501 1217 - SCSI controller (3row DB50) (x2)                                     
 pics at http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff/tn/vmeboards1.jpg.html         
                                                                                
And these non-Sun (I think) boards;                                             
ED5P182-30/G1 - FDDI?  (has TX, RX)                                             
ED5P182-32/G1 SUN DKHS - FDDI?  (has TX, RX) (x2)                               
 pics at http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/fddi/                                    
                                                                                
I'm not going to toss them, but I do need them ALL out of the way.              
                                                                                
I've also got a Toshiba T3100 286 (I think) laptop with hard drive and          
720K floppy and spiffy plasma orange screen.  MUST PICKUP.  WILL NOT            
SHIP.  Makes a *great* serial terminal, because it has a REAL, full-travel      
keyboard.  This is actually more of a "luggable"; it requires AC power.         
I'm asking $25 for this.  
 pics:  http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/laptop/                                   

Oh - one other thing - have an 8-port DELNI AUI concentrator. Free.

Bill                                                                            

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 14:43:49 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Tom Leffingwell wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
>
> > Also, while the normal ISO file structure probably will NOT
> > easily allow (if at all) RT-11 partitions to be written on 65536
> > block boundaries, for RT-11, that is essential.
>
> Why would you be using ISO?  My plan was just to dd copy (with unix
> cdrecord) a bootable RT-11 SCSI disk to the CD.  Assuming that if I had a
> bootable RT-11 SCSI disk as /dev/rz4c on a unix machine, with cdrecord, I
> would just do this:
>
> dd if=/dev/rz4c ibs=64k obs=64k | cdrecord -dev 3,5,0 -speed=2 -
>
> Will this work?

  I've done what I think are comparable burns with AIX install CDs and
MKCD (bootable CD backup; mksysb for CD-writers) disks, as well as
OpenVMS install CDs.  As long as I set the blocksize to a factor of
EVERY blocksize the filesystem uses, it works very well.  For instance,
the AIX BOS install CD has a 32k .toc block, apparently _between_ the
boot record and file blocks.  The only thing that works is "bs=1"....
  AFAICT, cdrecord cares not at all what it writes to disk.

	Doc


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Mon Mar 18 14:56:59 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
References: <200203181925.TAA02449@citadel.metropolis.local>
Message-ID: <3C96549B.860CA71C@ccp.com>

Stan Barr wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Eric Dittman  said:
> > > My ZX81 has Forth ROM...I *hate* Basic ;-)
> >
> > Is this the ROM from the Jupiter Ace?
> 
> No, it's Skywave Forth which was available as a replacement ROM
> from David(?) Husband in Bournemouth, England circa 1983.
> 
> Fig-forth based with multi-tasking and multiple (text) windows were
> the main features.
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com
> 
> The future was never like this!

Really???  I hadn't played with mine because of the ersatz BASIC.  Now
you got me interested again . . . .

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Mon Mar 18 15:03:19 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
References: 
Message-ID: <3C965617.70608@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Doc wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Will Jennings wrote:
> 
> 
>>FWIW,
>>I have like 4 MVII diag tapes...
>>
> 
>   Are they the Customer Diags or the Diag & Maint versions?


O.K. I have the Diag & Maint version (at least the one that
includes the MFM formatter.) And I have this as a nice
tape image ready to be written back to TK50 on UNIX (no
need to mess with VMS.) If you want to mess with VMS, there
is another source for MDM that you can use to build your
own MDM tape or disk on VMS. I don't feel authorized to
redistribute either of those images. That would be software
piracy and Bill Gates, the inventor of BASIC and the graphical
user interface (and anything that's useful in computing) says
that is a bad, bad thing.

regards
-Gunther

PS: contact me off line if you disagree to any of what I am
saying.


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Mon Mar 18 15:07:35 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
References: 
Message-ID: <3C965717.5070509@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Doc wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Paul Thompson wrote:
> 
>>With a full install of Ultrix there is a utility called itc which will do
>>image tape copies.  I have successfully made an image of the Microvax Diag
>>and booted from the copies.  It is possible that itc might run in Ultrix
>>compat. mode on netbsd.  It is actually a c source code example installed
>>with the examples subsets.
>>
> 
>   I don't have Ultrix.  Care to email or post the source?  Maybe it'll
> compile on NetBSD.


You don't need this. All you need is cptape, a nice little tool
available from the TUHS archive (under PDP-11/Tools or so). This
reads a tape and tells and copies the files into a directory (as
file.###) and it tells you the block sizes of each (and writes
those into a log file.) Then all you need to do is use sed(1) to
create dd(1) commands to write those files back to tape. Works
beautifully and was my rescue to get the MDM tape from TK70 to
TK50 media.

regards
-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Mon Mar 18 15:08:57 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B5@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>

	>The LK201, 301 and 401 are interchangeable, regardless of the cpu
	>used internally.  There is NO VAX, Decmate, Pro version or 
	>rainbow version save for different colored key caps.  I regually
swap 
	>LKx01 where x={2,3,4} keyboards with any VAX, Decmate, VT220, 
	>320, 330, 340, Pro3xx and friends.  They all used the same cord
set.

	See ... told you I'd get it wrong. At least there actually is an
LK250 :-)

	>I happen to prefer older LK201 for keyfeel, and later LK401s for 
	>the sculptured layout.

	LK401 roolz!

	>The LK250 however is a TOTALLY different animal and uses 
	>different keycoding to be compatable with PCs or VAXmate 
	>(a sorta PC).  There are several different cordsets for this one.

	Perhaps I can make up by offering a pointer
	to the VAXmate Tech Ref V1 at:
	  http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm
	This includes a description of the LK250 in Chapter 8.

	The LK201 is described in some detail in
	EK-104AA-TM-001 VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual
	(see Appendix B for the LK201 and Appendix C for the Mouse)
	which is available at the same location. 

	It is also described in the PC100 Technical Reference
	Manual, which I'll send over when I get a round tuit
	(same goes for the LK201 printset).

	Antonio


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Mon Mar 18 15:11:13 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Configuring ULTRIX 4.x kernel (was: Re: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!)
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9657F1.80806@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Peter Svensson wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> 
>>Well, yes except that it's binary only, which doesn't just work
>>as expected. But I found out, /etc/doconfig is an interactive
>>script that does all the magic for you. I hate to do this interactively,
>>but at least it got me going. And it's a script, so it can be
>>seen what it does (among others ln -s ing the BINARY/*.o files to
>>MYKERNEL/.)
>>
> 
> Hm, I dont think that is right. All you have to do is to copy or create a 
> configuration file in /usr/sys/conf/vax and then run "./config" on that 
> file. This should set everything up for you. Doconfig is a way to create a 
> resonable kernel for your hardware.


Of course that was the first thing that I tried, but it didn't work
when I first tried it. So, may be my installation was screwed up.
I'll try it again sometime, because obviously that is the preferred
method.


-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Mon Mar 18 15:14:06 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: List Managers reward. was Re: List Management - RESPONSE
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A7FD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Bob Shannon wrote:
> > Perhaps List members can help the list 
> > manger out here.
>   ^^^^^^
> Should that be "monger"?  Let's help Jay, not a large open box or trough
> in a stable.  And I think that most all of us would reject calling Jay a
> "mangler".

Perhaps "List administrator" might side-step that issue...

-dq

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 15:15:30 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags Chapter 3
Message-ID: 


  WooHoo!  Working copies of both the Maintenance & Customer
diagnostic tapes!

  I'm almost ashamed of the way I got it done -- classic Unix "go with
what you know" low-tech.  I'm also not convinced the originals are
reliable, but I am convinced I got true copies of them.

  The TKZ50-GA doesn't read the old tapes well at all, so I ended up
doing the rips on the MV-II itself.  The TUHS "cptape" utility, which
copies each file from tape to disk and records blocksize for each file,
extracted both tapes without error on the MV.
  So I've got the contents of the tape on disk, with 2/3 of the files
having a blocksize of 80.  The TUHS maketape doesn't know anything but
N*512 blocksizes, so that's out, and the tape has to have a TapeMark at
each file, so I can't just cat 'em all into a single file.  I tried
setting blocksize to 0 (variable) and running a dd loop, but the drive
pukes with an "Undefined error" fairly quickly.  So I just made a script
that uses mt to set the blocksize every time it changes, and dd each
file to tape.  All 172 files.  I couldn't remember how to compare file
sizes in a test statement, so no loops.  Bah!.

  It's the Kludge from Hell, but it works.  Anybody with a Unix system &
a TK oughta be able to use it.
  The 2 tarballs are about 1.5MB each.  Assuming you have a license to
use it, I see no reason not to help replace your media.  :^)

	Doc



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Mon Mar 18 15:16:42 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References: <200203181905.AA07296@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C96593A.8010902@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Wow, so that goes without the cptape program. The power of UNIX
shell scripting :-). But once you have the cptape copy, it's a
one-liner sed command to convert the log file in a series of dd
calls to write the stuff back, including the 80 byte blocks.

Of course, that doesn't fix your broken source tape.

regards
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From ss at allegro.com  Mon Mar 18 15:24:32 2002
From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: urgent business/investment deal
In-Reply-To: 
References: <200203150357.g2F3vnO02333@mail2.bigmailbox.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EA90.32609.4DABC8@localhost>

Re:
> > VERY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS ATTENTION STRICTLY FOR YOU ONLY
> Now it is really time to clamp down on non-subscriber posts.  I mean for
> real.  This is really getting annoying.

Let's see: 2 spams, and (at least) 14 messages complaining about it.

What we *need* is a filter to stop people from replying to spam :)
Stan Sieler                                           sieler@allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html          www.allegro.com/sieler


From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Mon Mar 18 15:29:27 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:56:59 CST."
             <3C96549B.860CA71C@ccp.com> 
Message-ID: <200203182129.VAA03206@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

Gary Hildebrand  said:

> Stan Barr wrote:
> > Eric Dittman  said:
> > > > My ZX81 has Forth ROM...I *hate* Basic ;-)
> > >
> > > Is this the ROM from the Jupiter Ace?
> > 
> > No, it's Skywave Forth which was available as a replacement ROM
> > from David(?) Husband in Bournemouth, England circa 1983.
> > 
> > Fig-forth based with multi-tasking and multiple (text) windows were
> > the main features.
> > 
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

> 
> Really???  I hadn't played with mine because of the ersatz BASIC.  Now
> you got me interested again . . . .

I've just had a search for anything on D. Husband or Skywave, but all I
turned up was an old news item at:

http://www.sinclair.f9.co.uk/025/news.htm



-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 15:43:27 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: VT-320 connector (was RE: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers)
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B5@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B5@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
Message-ID: 

	Speaking of the VT-320...does anyone have one of the adapters 
for the 320 that go from the 6-pin DEC-423 port to a 25-pin RS232 
connector?  I've got a VT-320 but can't use it due to lacking the 
connector.

	Thanks and take care
	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 15:52:07 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
In-Reply-To: <3C96593A.8010902@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Wow, so that goes without the cptape program. The power of UNIX
> shell scripting :-). But once you have the cptape copy, it's a
> one-liner sed command to convert the log file in a series of dd
> calls to write the stuff back, including the 80 byte blocks.

  No, I used cptape to get the files off the original, just a really
crufty script to put 'em back.  And I have a brand new sed & awk
O'Reilly text sitting in the den.

> Of course, that doesn't fix your broken source tape.

  I dunno if the source tape is broken.  I don't have any verified good
eqipment to test with it...  I think the SCSI TK50 was the problem.  I
do know that I have a problem with the RQDX3 board, or the distribution
board, or a cable.  The fact that the MFM formatter was hanging led me
to think the Diags were busted, but further testing with both tapes says
that the RQDXA is failing.  Bah!


	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 18 16:10:19 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: VT-320 connector (was RE: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:

> 	Speaking of the VT-320...does anyone have one of the adapters
> for the 320 that go from the 6-pin DEC-423 port to a 25-pin RS232
> connector?  I've got a VT-320 but can't use it due to lacking the
> connector.

  I've got a couple of spares, with male RS232 connection.

	Doc


From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 18 16:10:25 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B42@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gunther Schadow [mailto:gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org]

> own MDM tape or disk on VMS. I don't feel authorized to
> redistribute either of those images. That would be software
> piracy and Bill Gates, the inventor of BASIC and the graphical
> user interface (and anything that's useful in computing) says
> that is a bad, bad thing.

I would have been in real trouble had I actually been _drinking_
that warm apple cider while I read this.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Mon Mar 18 16:18:40 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To:  from "Tom Leffingwell" at Mar 18, 2002 02:55:55 PM
Message-ID: <200203182218.g2IMIe331848@shell1.aracnet.com>

> Why would you be using ISO?  My plan was just to dd copy (with unix
> cdrecord) a bootable RT-11 SCSI disk to the CD.  Assuming that if I had a
> bootable RT-11 SCSI disk as /dev/rz4c on a unix machine, with cdrecord, I
> would just do this:
> 
> dd if=/dev/rz4c ibs=64k obs=64k | cdrecord -dev 3,5,0 -speed=2 -
> 
> Will this work?

Basically this is what I've done.  Though I think I had the block size
seriously cranked down (no idea if that matters).  I first went to an image
file, and then I FTP'd it to my Mac and burned it to CD-R (I didn't have a
CD-R attached at the time).

> This week, I'm going to hook up my remaining RX02 drive to a VMS machine
> and copy the data off the RX02's.  At that point, all I should need is an
> image of v5.03 of RT-11 with my program, which I can then burn to a CD.

Stuff your RX02 images in an RL02 image using PUTR.COM, then you just need
to get the RL02 image onto your RT-11 system (I have TCP/IP working on my
PDP-11/73 so I just FTP it).

			Zane


From groovelists at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 16:48:11 2002
From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
Message-ID: <20020318224811.95800.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com>

Afternoon, all! :)

I've had a Vaxstation 2000 sitting around here for a
bit, but I've just gotten around to tinkering with it.
Alas, the poor fellow seems to have an ill hard drive.
I've managed to get the case open, but... well, this
is rather embarassing... I can't quite seem to figure
out how to get the drive itself out. 

I don't believe it is open at the moment, but I think
the layout inside is something like this :
____________________
----Motherboard-----
--------------------
 PS   |      Floppy
      |	     RD32 HD	
____________________

The drive is held in by at least a screw or two on the
right-hand side - I can remove those, but it is still
held in by another seeming inaccessible screw and / or
the cabling hooked up to the back of it.

Any help or recollections anyone might be able to
provide would be very much appreciated! :)

Thanks very much!

Cheers,
Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Mon Mar 18 16:54:44 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: SUCCESS!
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cdc7$71941280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>; from allain@panix.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 16:21:42 CET
References: <200203171130.g2HBUTK03766@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <00d301c1cdc7$71941280$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <20020318235444.F271723@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.17 16:21 John Allain wrote:
> > Get a VAXstation 2000, also called RD MFM disk 
> > formater. The VS2k has a MFM disk formater in ROM. 
> Will that work with any MFM drive geometry or only the 
> four RDxx types  that mVAXes like?
It should work with any disk, but you have to specify lots of
parameters. Look at: http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/hw/vs2000/fmtbob.html
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Mon Mar 18 17:00:58 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
In-Reply-To:  from "Andy Berg" at Mar 18, 2002 02:48:11 PM
Message-ID: <200203182300.g2IN0xo01718@shell1.aracnet.com>

> I've managed to get the case open, but... well, this
> is rather embarassing... I can't quite seem to figure
> out how to get the drive itself out. 

That's OK, you wouldn't beleive the trouble my PDP-11/44 CPU gave me with
regards to getting the chassis out of the rack!  Finally had to transport it
in the rack because no one could figure out how to unrack it.  I've run into
some IBM gear that's like that also, it takes half of forever to figure out
how to get into it.

In this case isn't the HD on a sled like the BA23's and BA123's use?  I
think there is a tab under the drive, that you push down on then pull the 
HD forward.  Of course my memory is fuzzy, I've not touched my VS2000 in
several years.

		Zane

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 18 17:17:34 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B47@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Berg [mailto:groovelists@yahoo.com]

> I've had a Vaxstation 2000 sitting around here for a
> bit, but I've just gotten around to tinkering with it.
> Alas, the poor fellow seems to have an ill hard drive.

Common problem, I think.

> I've managed to get the case open, but... well, this
> is rather embarassing... I can't quite seem to figure
> out how to get the drive itself out. 

It's not easy.  You'll need to remove the screws 
in the top of the mainboard, I think.  The 
mainboard should then "lift out" -- probably 
front first, but it's been a while.  Make sure 
that you don't bend the board.  The connectors 
that stick out under the lip in the back of the 
system tend to catch on things.

It will be connected to at least a power connector
and a cable for the disks.  Disconnect those.  
Remember to note their orientation.  

The Ethernet board, and any ram expanders will be 
snapped onto the main board with little plastic
parts.  They'll lift right out with it.

All of this is from distant (a year or so) memory,
so make sure I'm telling you the right thing before
you try it ;)

Now, the floppy and hard disk will be attached to
the same set of metal plates, and those plates, 
IIRC, are attached to the rails that hold the 
drives in place.  I think you need to detach the
metal drive-plates from the rails, and then take
the hard disk off once you have the pair of disks
dislodged from the inside of the machine.

IIRC, the power supply is "short" -- maybe half 
the height of the system cabinet -- so you should
be able to get access to any screws you need to 
take out to loosen the above-mentioned metal plates.

> I don't believe it is open at the moment, but I think
> the layout inside is something like this :
> ____________________
> ----Motherboard-----
> --------------------
>  PS   |      Floppy
>       |	     RD32 HD	
> ____________________

Kind of like that... :)

> The drive is held in by at least a screw or two on the
> right-hand side - I can remove those, but it is still
> held in by another seeming inaccessible screw and / or
> the cabling hooked up to the back of it.

Again, take the mainboard out, and you'll have to
remove both drives at once.  :)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From DAVIDINTEL at attbi.com  Mon Mar 18 17:20:53 2002
From: DAVIDINTEL at attbi.com (DAVID YOUNG)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse
Message-ID: <000601c1ced3$8ce0d250$0100a8c0@david>

yes it's a regular mouse, 2 feet no ball
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/9b27fac9/attachment.html
From broth at heathers.stdio.com  Mon Mar 18 17:41:13 2002
From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: DEC RC25 docs
In-Reply-To: <3C94E287.621AFFA4@Vishay.com>
References: <20020315024602.2C08827ED90@mail.wzrd.com> <3C94E287.621AFFA4@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <20020318224154.D006427EF82@mail.wzrd.com>

Thank you for your response. Someone sent me the info that I needed for 
getting the power connectors right so I will not need the scans you offered.

I appreciate your help.

Brian.


On Sunday 17 March 2002 01:37 pm, you wrote:
> Brian,
>
> still looking for RC25 docs? - There are 21 pages about this topic in
> volume III of the "LSI-11 Systems Service Manual", DEC order no.
> EK-LSIFS-SV-005 (that's 5th edition, Jan. 1985). Drawings of the drives,
> specs, connection diagrams, operating procedures, indicator readings,
> setup information etc.
>
> I might scan this stuff and send directly. Want me to? - Or, does
> somebody have write access to a place where we can make it available
> on-line? (Not the whole manual, I'm not going to flip well over 1,100
> pages manually!)
>
> Regards,
> Andreas
>
> Brian Roth schrieb:
> > Does anyone have hardware docs for a DEC RC25 dual drive? I just received
> > a couple and was planning to install one of them in my 11/725 but the
> > power connectors are different. Any help would be appreciated. I am also
> > looking for a spare CPU set for an 11/34.
> >
> > I'll be out of town until Sun so thanks in advance.
> >
> > Brian.

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 17:55:26 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <20020318022237.7766.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 17, 2 06:22:37 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 928 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020318/6e73f260/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 18:03:26 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To:  from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Mar 17, 2 09:39:38 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1355 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/2962a47f/attachment.ksh
From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Mon Mar 18 18:25:54 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

>   I don't have Ultrix.  Care to email or post the source?  Maybe it'll
> compile on NetBSD.
> 

#ifndef lint
static	char	*sccsid = "@(#)itc.c	4.1  (ULTRIX)        7/17/90";
#endif lint

/************************************************************************
 *									*
 *			Copyright (c) 1989 by				*
 *		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA		*
 *			All rights reserved.				*
 *									*
 *   This software is furnished under a license and may be used and	*
 *   copied  only  in accordance with the terms of such license and	*
 *   with the  inclusion  of  the  above  copyright  notice.   This	*
 *   software  or  any	other copies thereof may not be provided or	*
 *   otherwise made available to any other person.  No title to and	*
 *   ownership of the software is hereby transferred.			*
 *									*
 *   The information in this software is subject to change  without	*
 *   notice  and should not be construed as a commitment by Digital	*
 *   Equipment Corporation.						*
 *									*
 *   Digital assumes no responsibility for the use  or	reliability	*
 *   of its software on equipment which is not supplied by Digital.	*
 *									*
 ************************************************************************/
/*
 * itc - image tape copy, tape to disk and back out
 *
 *	itc i /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} > file
 *	itc o /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} < file
 *
 * This program serves as an example of how to use the Ultrix N-buffered
 * I/O mechanism to buffer I/O requests to and from a tape device under
 * Ultrix. The user interface for the N-buffered I/O mechanism is
 * documented under nbuf(4) and works for any character device provided
 * that the device driver for the device has all the same routines
 * implemented and specified in the kernel file conf.c as do all the
 * Ultrix tape drivers. The symbol "##" above represents a tape drive
 * device unit number and the {l,m,h} is the density selection of
 * "l"ow, "m"edium, or "h"igh where applicable.
 *
 * Digital Equipment Corporation supplies this software example on
 * an "as-is" basis for general customer use.  Note that Digital
 * does not offer any support for it, nor is it covered under any
 * of Digital's support contracts.
 *
 */

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

#define BUFAMT 128*512-1		/* Zero based 64 KB	*/
#define NBUFAMT 8			/* Number of N-buffers	*/
extern int errno;			/* Error number		*/

main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
	int opt;			/* Options variable	*/
	int fd;				/* File descriptor	*/
	int cnt = NBUFAMT;		/* N-buffer count	*/
	int n;				/* Amount for I/O	*/
	char *buf[NBUFAMT];		/* N-buffer array	*/
	int eof;			/* End-of-file flag	*/
	int cnter = 0;			/* Counter		*/

	/* Check to be sure option was given */
	if( argc < 3 ) {
		fprintf( stderr,
			"Usage:\t itc i /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} > file\n\t itc o /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} < file\n" );
		exit( 1 );
	}

	/* Save the option */
	opt = argv[1][0];

	/* Check to see which option and open device */
	if(( fd = open( argv[2], opt == 'i' ? 0 : 1 )) < 0 ) {
		perror( "itc: tape open error" );
		exit( 1 );
	}

	/* Determine if we can use n-buffered I/O */
	if( ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
		cnt = 0;
	}

	/* Allocate buffers if N-buffered I/O is possible */
	if( cnt > 0 )
		for( n=0; n < cnt; n++ )
			buf[n] = (char *)malloc( BUFAMT+1024 );
		else
			buf[0] = (char *)malloc( BUFAMT );

	/* Determine which way */
	if( opt == 'i' ) {

		/* Copying from tape to a file */

		eof = 0;
		for( ;; ) {
loop:
		    n = read( fd, buf[cnter], BUFAMT );
		    if( cnt ) {
			int didread;

			if( ++cnter == cnt ) {
				cnter = 0;
			}

			errno = 0;
			didread = ioctl( fd, FIONBDONE, &buf[cnter] );

			if( errno != EINVAL ) {
				n = didread;
			} else {
				goto loop;
			}
		    }

		    if( n < 0 ) {
			perror( "itc: tape read error" );
			exit( 1 );
		    }

		    /* We encountered a tape mark */
		    /* Reset to next tape file */
		    if( n == 0 ) {
			close( fd );

			if( eof ) {
				break;
			} else {
				eof = 1;
			}

			/* Skip to next tape file */
			if(( fd = open( argv[2], opt == 'i' ? 0 : 1 )) < 0 ) {
				perror( "itc: tape open error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}

			if( cnt && ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
				cnt = 0;
			}
			cnter = 0;
		    } else {
			eof = 0;
		    }

		    write( 1, (char *)&n, sizeof( n ) );
		    if( n ) {
			write( 1, buf[cnter], n );
		    }
		}

	} else {
		int read_len;

		/* Copying from file to tape */

		while( read( 0, (char *)&n, sizeof( n )) == sizeof( n )) {

		    if( n == 0 ) {
			close( fd );

			fd = open( argv[2], 1 );

			if( cnt && ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
				cnt = 0;
			}

			cnter = 0;

		    } else {
			int err;

			if(( read_len = read( 0, buf[cnter], n )) != n ) {
				perror( "itc: file format error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}

			err = write( fd, buf[cnter], n );

			if( cnt && ( err >= 0 )) {
				int didwrite;

				if( ++cnter == cnt ) {
					cnter = 0;
				}

				errno = 0;
				didwrite = ioctl( fd, FIONBDONE, &buf[cnter] );

				if ( errno != EINVAL ) {
					err = didwrite;
				}
			}

			if( err < 0 ) {
				perror( "itc: tape write error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}
		    }
		}
		close( fd );
	}
}


-- 
-------------- next part --------------

#ifndef lint
static	char	*sccsid = "@(#)itc.c	4.1  (ULTRIX)        7/17/90";
#endif lint

/************************************************************************
 *									*
 *			Copyright (c) 1989 by				*
 *		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA		*
 *			All rights reserved.				*
 *									*
 *   This software is furnished under a license and may be used and	*
 *   copied  only  in accordance with the terms of such license and	*
 *   with the  inclusion  of  the  above  copyright  notice.   This	*
 *   software  or  any	other copies thereof may not be provided or	*
 *   otherwise made available to any other person.  No title to and	*
 *   ownership of the software is hereby transferred.			*
 *									*
 *   The information in this software is subject to change  without	*
 *   notice  and should not be construed as a commitment by Digital	*
 *   Equipment Corporation.						*
 *									*
 *   Digital assumes no responsibility for the use  or	reliability	*
 *   of its software on equipment which is not supplied by Digital.	*
 *									*
 ************************************************************************/
/*
 * itc - image tape copy, tape to disk and back out
 *
 *	itc i /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} > file
 *	itc o /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} < file
 *
 * This program serves as an example of how to use the Ultrix N-buffered
 * I/O mechanism to buffer I/O requests to and from a tape device under
 * Ultrix. The user interface for the N-buffered I/O mechanism is
 * documented under nbuf(4) and works for any character device provided
 * that the device driver for the device has all the same routines
 * implemented and specified in the kernel file conf.c as do all the
 * Ultrix tape drivers. The symbol "##" above represents a tape drive
 * device unit number and the {l,m,h} is the density selection of
 * "l"ow, "m"edium, or "h"igh where applicable.
 *
 * Digital Equipment Corporation supplies this software example on
 * an "as-is" basis for general customer use.  Note that Digital
 * does not offer any support for it, nor is it covered under any
 * of Digital's support contracts.
 *
 */

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

#define BUFAMT 128*512-1		/* Zero based 64 KB	*/
#define NBUFAMT 8			/* Number of N-buffers	*/
extern int errno;			/* Error number		*/

main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
	int opt;			/* Options variable	*/
	int fd;				/* File descriptor	*/
	int cnt = NBUFAMT;		/* N-buffer count	*/
	int n;				/* Amount for I/O	*/
	char *buf[NBUFAMT];		/* N-buffer array	*/
	int eof;			/* End-of-file flag	*/
	int cnter = 0;			/* Counter		*/

	/* Check to be sure option was given */
	if( argc < 3 ) {
		fprintf( stderr,
			"Usage:\t itc i /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} > file\n\t itc o /dev/nrmt##{l,m,h} < file\n" );
		exit( 1 );
	}

	/* Save the option */
	opt = argv[1][0];

	/* Check to see which option and open device */
	if(( fd = open( argv[2], opt == 'i' ? 0 : 1 )) < 0 ) {
		perror( "itc: tape open error" );
		exit( 1 );
	}

	/* Determine if we can use n-buffered I/O */
	if( ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
		cnt = 0;
	}

	/* Allocate buffers if N-buffered I/O is possible */
	if( cnt > 0 )
		for( n=0; n < cnt; n++ )
			buf[n] = (char *)malloc( BUFAMT+1024 );
		else
			buf[0] = (char *)malloc( BUFAMT );

	/* Determine which way */
	if( opt == 'i' ) {

		/* Copying from tape to a file */

		eof = 0;
		for( ;; ) {
loop:
		    n = read( fd, buf[cnter], BUFAMT );
		    if( cnt ) {
			int didread;

			if( ++cnter == cnt ) {
				cnter = 0;
			}

			errno = 0;
			didread = ioctl( fd, FIONBDONE, &buf[cnter] );

			if( errno != EINVAL ) {
				n = didread;
			} else {
				goto loop;
			}
		    }

		    if( n < 0 ) {
			perror( "itc: tape read error" );
			exit( 1 );
		    }

		    /* We encountered a tape mark */
		    /* Reset to next tape file */
		    if( n == 0 ) {
			close( fd );

			if( eof ) {
				break;
			} else {
				eof = 1;
			}

			/* Skip to next tape file */
			if(( fd = open( argv[2], opt == 'i' ? 0 : 1 )) < 0 ) {
				perror( "itc: tape open error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}

			if( cnt && ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
				cnt = 0;
			}
			cnter = 0;
		    } else {
			eof = 0;
		    }

		    write( 1, (char *)&n, sizeof( n ) );
		    if( n ) {
			write( 1, buf[cnter], n );
		    }
		}

	} else {
		int read_len;

		/* Copying from file to tape */

		while( read( 0, (char *)&n, sizeof( n )) == sizeof( n )) {

		    if( n == 0 ) {
			close( fd );

			fd = open( argv[2], 1 );

			if( cnt && ioctl( fd, FIONBUF, &cnt ) < 0 ) {
				cnt = 0;
			}

			cnter = 0;

		    } else {
			int err;

			if(( read_len = read( 0, buf[cnter], n )) != n ) {
				perror( "itc: file format error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}

			err = write( fd, buf[cnter], n );

			if( cnt && ( err >= 0 )) {
				int didwrite;

				if( ++cnter == cnt ) {
					cnter = 0;
				}

				errno = 0;
				didwrite = ioctl( fd, FIONBDONE, &buf[cnter] );

				if ( errno != EINVAL ) {
					err = didwrite;
				}
			}

			if( err < 0 ) {
				perror( "itc: tape write error" );
				exit( 1 );
			}
		    }
		}
		close( fd );
	}
}
From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Mon Mar 18 18:29:23 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags & Customer Diags
In-Reply-To: <3C965717.5070509@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> You don't need this. All you need is cptape, a nice little tool
> available from the TUHS archive (under PDP-11/Tools or so). This
> reads a tape and tells and copies the files into a directory (as
> file.###) and it tells you the block sizes of each (and writes
> those into a log file.) Then all you need to do is use sed(1) to
> create dd(1) commands to write those files back to tape. Works
> beautifully and was my rescue to get the MDM tape from TK70 to
> TK50 media.
> 
Sounds essentially the same as itc, except itc will do this in one atomic 
operation.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 18:53:04 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 17, 2 11:21:23 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2462 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/52ebea43/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 18:56:25 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX81 BASIC (was Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <20020318061006.FVPC860.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 18, 2 01:08:38 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 242 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/5fa49ad4/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 19:01:36 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C95CF1C.29524.3D923984@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 18, 2 11:27:24 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1384 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/21d2eba5/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 19:06:08 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B1@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Mar 18, 2 03:00:07 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1411 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/be36696b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 19:11:10 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020318101148.007fe340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 18, 2 10:11:48 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 931 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/4f600d15/attachment.ksh
From dittman at dittman.net  Mon Mar 18 19:39:48 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To:  from "Tony Duell" at Mar 19, 2002 12:03:26 AM
Message-ID: <200203190139.g2J1dmx00402@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> With the Radio Shack system you got TRS-DOS 2.x. 2.3 was the last version 
> (well, there was 2.3B with all sorts of oddities...) and probably the 
> most stable.

There was also a 2.7.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Mar 18 20:27:56 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Disk controlers
Message-ID: <3C96A22C.C8D7C51E@jetnet.ab.ca>

BG micro ( www.bgmicro.com ) still has 765,1771,1791,1793,1795,1797,2793
and 2797 floppy disc controllers if your old machine need a new floppy
disk chip. Looking at the same page they also have some old memory chips
like 16kx1 drams and 1kx1 static ram. 
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From jwbirdsa at picarefy.com  Mon Mar 18 21:52:22 2002
From: jwbirdsa at picarefy.com (jwbirdsa@picarefy.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Apple II/IIgs bits
Message-ID: <20020319035222.5303.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>

   Available for postage ($3.50 in the US). Condition unknown.

   Hayes Micromodem II, which Google indicates is for an Apple II. Looks good.
No cable, just the card.

   Applied Engineering Ramkeeper, which Google indicates is for a IIgs. Many
of the chips are a bit scratched -- it's obviously been in a pile of boards
for a while. This is supposed to be a battery-backed RAM board, but there's
no RAM or battery. There's a couple places where it looks like things used
to be glued to the board, and other possible damage. Probably not useful
except as a source of chips (has ROM revision RK 1.7, and other chips
labelled RK1A.N, RK2A.N, and RK3A.N).

   --James B.

From groovelists at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 22:18:51 2002
From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B47@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <20020319041851.58612.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Chris and Zane!!! :)

I managed to get the drives out without too much
complaining on part of the computer thanks to your
advice. Many thanks for your help! :)

The poor ST251 looks like it might be done in for...
Originally, it just clicked once when power was
applied + didn't spin up. Was able to get it to spin
up by lubing the bearings, but I think it has many
other issues. Fails a TEST 71 (disk verification
test). Attempting to BOOT using DUA0 as default has it
making a quiet buzzing noise for a few seconds...
then, tries to boot from ESA0, gives a ?54 RETRY,
tries ESA0 again, etc... Haven't quite gotten around
to setting up a network for it. (Could also be doing
something wrong, too - never had a chance to work with
any VAXen prior to this.)

Will peer about to see if I can find another MFM drive
'round here. 

Thanks again for everything - you both made things
really easy.  :)

Cheers,
Andy

--- Christopher Smith  wrote:
<> 
> It will be connected to at least a power connector
> and a cable for the disks.  Disconnect those.  
> Remember to note their orientation.  
> 
> The Ethernet board, and any ram expanders will be 
> snapped onto the main board with little plastic
> parts.  They'll lift right out with it.
> 
> All of this is from distant (a year or so) memory,
> so make sure I'm telling you the right thing before
> you try it ;)
> 
> Now, the floppy and hard disk will be attached to
> the same set of metal plates, and those plates, 
> IIRC, are attached to the rails that hold the 
> drives in place.  I think you need to detach the
> metal drive-plates from the rails, and then take
> the hard disk off once you have the pair of disks
> dislodged from the inside of the machine.
> 
> IIRC, the power supply is "short" -- maybe half 
> the height of the system cabinet -- so you should
> be able to get access to any screws you need to 
> take out to loosen the above-mentioned metal plates.
<>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From ekklein at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 18 22:28:37 2002
From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik and Karen Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <02Mar18.121358est.119110@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <001a01c1cefe$8a014a80$6e7ba8c0@piii933>

How does one get that lucky?

Congratulations!

  E

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:58 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800

	Over the last week I've had two different individuals contact 
me and offer me systems.  One was a KIM-1, including all three 
manuals, "KIM Hints" and the classic book "First Book of KIM"...all 
for $25.  The KIM is a Rev. G board and looks to be in really nice 
shape.  He had rescued it from the curbside trash outside of a 
college dorm!

	The second system is a SWTPc 6800.  It includes lots of 
documentation and the SWTPc minidisk system, as well as various FLEX 
disks and a few additional boards.  He's also informed me that he's 
going to include a terminal kit that he had gotten for it.  I believe 
he said that the kit was made by Netronics...I'd have to doublecheck 
that.  It's costing me $50 plus shipping.  I don't actually have it 
yet but am certainly looking forward to receiving it!

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From vaxman at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 22:38:43 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags Chapter 3
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


Hi Doc,

My dog ate my diagnostic tapes, so can I purty please get a copy :)

I have a few things I might be able to replace your missing media
with. VMS 5.5-1 source on CDROM, Ultrix 4.4 (VAX and Mips) on CDROM,
Ultrix 3.1 (VAX) on TK50.... I'm still getting my file server set up,
so nothing except Ultrix 3.1 is online yet, but the others will
read quickly if you wish...

I have DSL at home, so I can pull files fairly quickly from your
site, or I can set up a ftp account you can put the files into...

Take care,
Clint

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:

> 
>   WooHoo!  Working copies of both the Maintenance & Customer
> diagnostic tapes!
> 
>   I'm almost ashamed of the way I got it done -- classic Unix "go with
> what you know" low-tech.  I'm also not convinced the originals are
> reliable, but I am convinced I got true copies of them.
> 
>   The TKZ50-GA doesn't read the old tapes well at all, so I ended up
> doing the rips on the MV-II itself.  The TUHS "cptape" utility, which
> copies each file from tape to disk and records blocksize for each file,
> extracted both tapes without error on the MV.
>   So I've got the contents of the tape on disk, with 2/3 of the files
> having a blocksize of 80.  The TUHS maketape doesn't know anything but
> N*512 blocksizes, so that's out, and the tape has to have a TapeMark at
> each file, so I can't just cat 'em all into a single file.  I tried
> setting blocksize to 0 (variable) and running a dd loop, but the drive
> pukes with an "Undefined error" fairly quickly.  So I just made a script
> that uses mt to set the blocksize every time it changes, and dd each
> file to tape.  All 172 files.  I couldn't remember how to compare file
> sizes in a test statement, so no loops.  Bah!.
> 
>   It's the Kludge from Hell, but it works.  Anybody with a Unix system &
> a TK oughta be able to use it.
>   The 2 tarballs are about 1.5MB each.  Assuming you have a license to
> use it, I see no reason not to help replace your media.  :^)
> 
> 	Doc
> 
> 
> 


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Mon Mar 18 23:04:18 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:32 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318210351.03c13ec0@mail.zipcon.net>

At 10:12 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:


>Then Randy Cook came out VTOS 4.0, but never finished it.
>"Documentation" was mostly just a feature list.  The publisher (Adventure
>International/Scott Adams) wouldn't pay him royalties.
>
>Lobo Drives created a new expansion interface using a 179x chip for double
>density; TRS-DOS would not work with it.  They purchased rights to VTOS,
>hired everybody they could get their hands on (such as Roy Soltoff aka
>Misosys), and came out with LDOS.
>
>Radio Shack came out with the model 3, and Model 3 TRS-DOS 1.1, 1.2, 1.3
>
>Radio Shack came out with their own version of the Percom Doubler (179x
>for model 1).  And licensed LDOS, renaming it TRS-DOS 6.  Randy Cook
>finally got royalties from Radio Shack.

Ldos was my fave TRS-80 OS


From edick at idcomm.com  Mon Mar 18 23:13:49 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Apple II/IIgs bits
References: <20020319035222.5303.qmail@picarefy.picarefy.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1cf04$dae45360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

This MicroModem probably needs the external DAA (called Microcoupler).  That's
the little 1.35"Hx3.5W"x5"W plastic box to which the cable connects.  It's
been years since I last looked at one, but you might look around for that
part, if there's a place to look.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 8:52 PM
Subject: Apple II/IIgs bits


>    Available for postage ($3.50 in the US). Condition unknown.
>
>    Hayes Micromodem II, which Google indicates is for an Apple II. Looks
good.
> No cable, just the card.
>
>    Applied Engineering Ramkeeper, which Google indicates is for a IIgs. Many
> of the chips are a bit scratched -- it's obviously been in a pile of boards
> for a while. This is supposed to be a battery-backed RAM board, but there's
> no RAM or battery. There's a couple places where it looks like things used
> to be glued to the board, and other possible damage. Probably not useful
> except as a source of chips (has ROM revision RK 1.7, and other chips
> labelled RK1A.N, RK2A.N, and RK3A.N).
>
>    --James B.
>
>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 18 23:41:35 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020319054333.PQHH12813.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Hans Franke 

[Tony Duell wrote]
> > And the ZX81 BASIC is so unpleasant (single-key entry -- YUK!) 
> 
> Hey, I liked it!

Thank you, Hans.  I knew I couldn't be the only one ;>)

> > Therefore it's probably as easy to start with a bare CPU chip...
> 
> Maybe, but then you have to make a board, and at least a ZX
> compatible edge connector for all the great perhipherals ...
> So after all, using a ZX81 is just a cheap way to get exactly
> this.

Exactly.  For five or ten US dollars (or free, mostly) you get an easily
hacked micro with all the lines available on the expansion connector and a
decent built-in BASIC if you need it.  Plus 8KB of available address space
in the 8-16KB region which is perfectly suited to add-ins such as NVRAM or,
my favorite, a disk operating system in ROM.

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 18 23:51:36 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Joe 

> For me it's easier to get the
> CORRECT drive and media than it is to cobble something up that may or may
> not work or be reliable!

FINALLY -- the voice of reason regarding the "will this media work in that
drive" questions.  Match the drive and the media and avoid a hassle and a
lot of lost data.  

Thanks Joe!

Glen
0/0

From geoffr at zipcon.net  Tue Mar 19 00:57:29 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020318101148.007fe340@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318225455.00a72540@mail.zipcon.net>

At 01:11 AM 3/19/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >    I recommended that you try and find a QD drive but several people have
> > correctly (and vigorously!) pointed out that a 1.2Mb drive does use 80
> > tracks and that you COULD use one of them. (once you over come the possible
> > double stepping and write-strength pin select problems!)  The problem is
> > that they use a different magnetic field strength and I've had that led to
>
>That's what the density-select pin is for. In one state (deasseted?), the
>write current is correct for standard DD media (360K disks, etc).
>
>There really should be no compatibility problems reading/writing 80
>cylinder [1] DD disks in a 1.2Mbyte drive, provided you use it correctly.


There isn't.  also, there is no problem with writing 80 cylinder single 
sided disks in them (dec rainbow format)  the HD drives step down to the 
lower write strength when told to by software, be it RainDOS (the driver to 
make a 1.2 MB Disk drive on an IBM compatible write dec rainbow disks or 
commercial products to do media translation


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 01:19:42 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
Message-ID: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi,

this was my first 5 hours trying to do just some useful work
with the VAX 6460 (phicus) under Ultrix 4.5, now that the
worries are beyond getting it booted and getting free from
VMS, I remember again how hard UNIX can be in terms of
compatibility (of course that's all nothing as compared to
how hard it would be on VMS :-).

I was going to build the essentials of the amenities of the
modern times, like gzip, GNU tar, bash and less, and Emacs
and gcc and GNU make.

All I did accomplish was to make Ultrix's date(1) Y2K complient
warping my system time from 1976 up to 2002 :-). The patch
is attached for those who have the sources. That was easy.

Now gzip would build and install without remaking everything
all the time because of my system time being decades behind :-).
Gzip was easy too.

Next was tar, and here came the first problems. The fact that
Ultrix' cc is a k&r compiler and cpp is somehow not up to date
is causing great pains. Lots of stuff fails because of this.
I did try the VAX C compiler (vcc), which supposedly is ANSI-C,
but it made the confusion worse.

Some locale stuff was a common theme of stuff failing, which
of course I hate. I never cared for locales, and I get
upset if some locale crap goes in the way of getting things
to work. But I figured, I needed to fast-forward my build-
efforts to GCC.

I have GCC-2.9x.3 (latest before 3.0) with an eye on making
NetBSD from that platform. First I had to make GNU make,
because the GCC installation procedure has become more
sophisticated. Building make almost failed too had I not
applied some broad strokes to make cpp and the locale stuff
happy.

Now with GNU make, that GCC build would still fail quite early
for some strange syntax errors reported by cpp.
I could actually build cpp and cpp0 without all the rest,
but putting GNU cpp in front of Ultrix cc didn't do much good
at all. Of course there may be lots of other things wrong, for
I doubt anyone at GNU/Cygnus has tested the autoconf process
on Ultrix/VAX lately :-).

So, I decided I have to get some super old version of GCC,
like 1.42 or earlier, that has a chance of having been tested
on Ultrix back then. From that platform I might be able to
move on to a more recent GCC version.

Tried to build at least bash, but once again cpp woes in
the lib/readline build (and readline is really my main reason
for wanting bash!)`That's where I gave up on GNU stuff for
today.

Tried some kernel making again, on Ultrix, both 4.5 binary
and 4.2 source. I think config(8) is indeed doing the symlinks
to the BINARY objects, so doconfig should not be required
indeed.

However, I cannot seem to be able to bump up my MAXUSERS
variable effectively. I have set maxusers to 128 but when
I try my 3rd telnet connection I am being sent away. I
somewhere read that Ultrix had some hard restriction to
cut more money out of per-user licenses. Any idea what I
might be doing wrong in terms of maxusers?

Tried to build the Ultrix-4.2 kernel from sources. Need to
supply the -s option to the config(8) command (to use
sources instead of binary symlinks.) However, the 4.2
sources seem to be incomplete!!! I am missing at least
sys/kern_lmf.c. Has anyone here ever built successfully
from the Ultrix-4.2 sources?  kern_lmf.c seems critical
and cannot be optioned out.

Tried to play with 4.3BSD sources, Tahoe and Quasijarus.
I must have FTPed the Quasijarus files in ASCII mode or
Michael is using a strange compress format, as neither
Ultrix compress nor gzip recognizes it as theirs. Noticed
that the TUHS archive's Tahoe version has some broken
files (as noted in BROKEN) that's sad. Tried to un-tar
the src.tar.gz of Tahoe to get to 4.3BSD's config(8)
tool (it's a good idea of Ultrix to put the config(8)
tool into the sys/ tree rather than the usr.(s)bin/
tree.) That's where I noticed that the src.tar.gz
is broken very early in the process. May be with GNU
tar it could find a point to continue after the error,
but then I need to build GNU tar first.

Ah, the worries of UNIX. But it was always fun and never
so frustrating as to make me want to throw hammers
like I want to when I am stuck with VMS. Of course I
appreciate tips as to how modern GNU stuff is built
on Ultrix.

regards,
-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org

-------------- next part --------------
*** date_broken.c	Sun Oct  7 09:39:19 1990
--- date.c	Mon Mar 18 22:30:14 2002
***************
*** 80,86 ****
  
  static	int	dmsize[12] =
      { 31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31 };
! static char *usage = "usage: date [-c | -u] [+format] [[yy[mm[dd]]]hhmm[.ss][-tttt][z]]\n";
  
  
  #define	MONTH	itoa(tp->tm_mon+1,cp,2)
--- 80,86 ----
  
  static	int	dmsize[12] =
      { 31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31 };
! static char *usage = "usage: date [-c | -u] [+format] [[[cc]yy[mm[dd]]]hhmm[.ss][-tttt][z]]\n";
  
  
  #define	MONTH	itoa(tp->tm_mon+1,cp,2)
***************
*** 213,220 ****
  /*
   * Parse the date setting string.
   *
!  *	Format  [[[yy]MM]dd]hhmm[.ss][-tttt][z]
!  *	Where:	yy year
   *		MM month
   *		dd day
   *		hh hour
--- 213,221 ----
  /*
   * Parse the date setting string.
   *
!  *	Format  [[[[cc]yy]MM]dd]hhmm[.ss][-tttt][z]
!  *	Where:	cc century
!  *		yy year
   *		MM month
   *		dd day
   *		hh hour
***************
*** 226,232 ****
   */
  gtime()
  {
! 	register int i, year, month;
  	int day, hour, mins, secs, itz;
  	int east_greenwich = 0;		/* Set to 1 if "west of Greenwich" */
  	struct tm *L;
--- 227,233 ----
   */
  gtime()
  {
! 	register int i, century, year, month;
  	int day, hour, mins, secs, itz;
  	int east_greenwich = 0;		/* Set to 1 if "west of Greenwich" */
  	struct tm *L;
***************
*** 319,324 ****
--- 320,326 ----
  	day = gp(L->tm_mday);
  	month = gp(L->tm_mon+1);
  	year = gp(L->tm_year);
+ 	century = gp(19);
  	if (*sp)
  		return (1);
  	/*
***************
*** 339,345 ****
  	/*
  	 * Added up the seconds since the epoch
  	 */
! 	year += 1900;
  	for (i = 1970; i < year; i++)
  		tv.tv_sec += dysize(i);
  	/* 
--- 341,347 ----
  	/*
  	 * Added up the seconds since the epoch
  	 */
! 	year += century * 100;
  	for (i = 1970; i < year; i++)
  		tv.tv_sec += dysize(i);
  	/* 
From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 01:25:16 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References: 
Message-ID: <3C96E7DC.4020908@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Doc wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> 
>>Wow, so that goes without the cptape program. The power of UNIX
>>shell scripting :-). But once you have the cptape copy, it's a
>>one-liner sed command to convert the log file in a series of dd
>>calls to write the stuff back, including the 80 byte blocks.
>>
> 
>   No, I used cptape to get the files off the original, just a really
> crufty script to put 'em back.  And I have a brand new sed & awk
> O'Reilly text sitting in the den.
> 
> 
>>Of course, that doesn't fix your broken source tape.
>>
> 
>   I dunno if the source tape is broken.  I don't have any verified good
> eqipment to test with it...  I think the SCSI TK50 was the problem.  I
> do know that I have a problem with the RQDX3 board, or the distribution
> board, or a cable.  The fact that the MFM formatter was hanging led me
> to think the Diags were busted, but further testing with both tapes says
> that the RQDXA is failing.  Bah!


BTW: any ida why mine barks at me I had disabled my MFM drive? The
RQDX3 passes the test fine, but doesn't detect any devices. I think
I put the cables together fine and checked that today. I see the
RX50 floppy react normally in terms of signalling write protect
on the console if I stick a write protected floppy in. But the
MFM drive does not have its LED lit and never seems to seek or do
anything other than spinning. Is that normal? Are there jumpers
to take care of? (That drive came from some old SUN.)


-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 01:41:39 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags Chapter 3
References: 
Message-ID: <3C96EBB3.2020809@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Doc Shipley wrote:

>   WooHoo!  Working copies of both the Maintenance & Customer
> diagnostic tapes!


that is good, nothing like achieving one's very own accomplishment :-)


>   So I've got the contents of the tape on disk, with 2/3 of the files
> having a blocksize of 80. 


BTW, those are VMS/ANSI file header and end-of-file blocks.

> The TUHS maketape doesn't know anything but
> N*512 blocksizes, so that's out, and the tape has to have a TapeMark at
> each file, so I can't just cat 'em all into a single file.  I tried
> setting blocksize to 0 (variable) and running a dd loop, but the drive
> pukes with an "Undefined error" fairly quickly.  So I just made a script
> that uses mt to set the blocksize every time it changes, and dd each
> file to tape.  All 172 files.  I couldn't remember how to compare file
> sizes in a test statement, so no loops.  Bah!.


Well, get your sed/awk book out from the den or RTFM. (Sed
is so cool, I never need Perl if I have sed, awk and a bourne
shell.) But everyone accoring to his taste.

Only I have to bark at that mt blocksize hack. That isn't
necessary. All you need is dd! Dd really is your friend with
the ability to set the input (ibs) and output (obs) block size
differently (or all the same, bs).

The obs determines the block size written to tape:

dd if=file.01 of=/dev/nrmt0 bs=80

it's as easy as that. In my case I had the uVAX-II netbooted and the
read off the network causes the tape to stop and then re-position
for every block. That can slow down tape-writing by a factor of
10 or more. The trick is then to set ibs to 1 MB and obs to whatever
blocksize you need on tape. That way your tape stops only every
1 MB and then can happyly stream 200 or more consecutive blocks
without having to re-position.


>   It's the Kludge from Hell, but it works.  Anybody with a Unix system &
> a TK oughta be able to use it.
>   The 2 tarballs are about 1.5MB each.  Assuming you have a license to
> use it, I see no reason not to help replace your media.  :^)


1.5 MB? Mine was 5.5 MB and I have 255 files. What are you missing?

regards
-Gunther




-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From menadeau at attbi.com  Tue Mar 19 08:55:34 2002
From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: test--ignore
Message-ID: <007e01c1cf56$21f620c0$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>


Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com
603-893-2379


From emu at ecubics.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:55 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C9753D3.827A671F@ecubics.com>

Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> this was my first 5 hours trying to do just some useful work
> with the VAX 6460 (phicus) under Ultrix 4.5, now that the
> worries are beyond getting it booted and getting free from
> VMS, I remember again how hard UNIX can be in terms of
> compatibility (of course that's all nothing as compared to
> how hard it would be on VMS :-).
> 
> I was going to build the essentials of the amenities of the
> modern times, like gzip, GNU tar, bash and less, and Emacs
> and gcc and GNU make.

Hi Gunther,

I hope you know this site :

> Re: Ultrix Freeware Archive
> The site is hosted by the Retro-Computing Society of RI and can be found
> at:
> 
> http://starfish.rcsri.org/ultrix/
> 

cheers

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Tue Mar 19 09:55:26 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags Chapter 3
In-Reply-To: <3C96EBB3.2020809@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Doc Shipley wrote:
> >   So I've got the contents of the tape on disk, with 2/3 of the files
> > having a blocksize of 80.
>
>
> BTW, those are VMS/ANSI file header and end-of-file blocks.

  Nice to know.  I had looked at them with od, then with more when I
found out they don't bite.  Now I know what they're called, too.

> Well, get your sed/awk book out from the den or RTFM. (Sed
> is so cool, I never need Perl if I have sed, awk and a bourne
> shell.) But everyone accoring to his taste.

  sed & awk is the Spring Training Project.

> Only I have to bark at that mt blocksize hack. That isn't
> necessary. All you need is dd! Dd really is your friend with
> the ability to set the input (ibs) and output (obs) block size
> differently (or all the same, bs).
>
> The obs determines the block size written to tape:
>
> dd if=file.01 of=/dev/nrmt0 bs=80

  Tried that first off.  I'm still not sure why it didn't work.  I kind
of suspect that dd was overrunning the TK50, and the mt commands allow
the drive itself to set the pace?

>
> 1.5 MB? Mine was 5.5 MB and I have 255 files. What are you missing?

  The *tarball* is 5.5M?  I don't know, but I got no errors and the "end
of tape" message from cptape on both source tapes.  What version Diags
do you have?
  My tapes are labelled:

MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN

  This email account can handle large attachments, if you want to send
yours over for comparison.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Tue Mar 19 10:07:38 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
In-Reply-To: <3C96E7DC.4020908@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> BTW: any ida why mine barks at me I had disabled my MFM drive? The
> RQDX3 passes the test fine, but doesn't detect any devices. I think
> I put the cables together fine and checked that today. I see the
> RX50 floppy react normally in terms of signalling write protect
> on the console if I stick a write protected floppy in. But the
> MFM drive does not have its LED lit and never seems to seek or do
> anything other than spinning. Is that normal? Are there jumpers
> to take care of? (That drive came from some old SUN.)

Gunther,
  I don't know, but I think I'm missing something too.  Do the diags
just show a dead drive as "offline"?
  I put the original RD54 back in as drive 0 and no longer get the RQDXA
errors from the diags, but both drives 1&2, RD53s, are showing as
offline RD51s.  What's up with that?

	Doc


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Tue Mar 19 11:11:50 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
Message-ID: <000801c1cf69$2a57d700$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Doc 
>just show a dead drive as "offline"?
>  I put the original RD54 back in as drive 0 and no longer get the RQDXA
>errors from the diags, but both drives 1&2, RD53s, are showing as
>offline RD51s.  What's up with that?
>


NOTE: DEC jumpers all RDxxs the same regardless of how many are on
the controller {they are cable selected}.  If memory is accurate  All RDxx
should be jumpered for #3.  REPEAT ALL DRIVES ARE JUMPERED 
THE SAME even drive address.

I assume the controller is RQDX2 or 3 and the box is BA123 with the 4
drive interface card (M9xxx).  FYI: if there is a RX50 on that controller
then ONLY TWO RDxx drives can be used as an RX50 uses two drive
numbers.  If you want three RDxx drives and a floppy then use a RX33
(TEAC FD55GFV, with correct jumpers) OR use two RQDX controllers 
and associated breakout cards.

Watch for upside down cables and or bad cables.

Allison


From emu at ecubics.com  Tue Mar 19 11:19:00 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References: 
Message-ID: <3C977304.44CE092B@ecubics.com>

Doc wrote:
>   I don't know, but I think I'm missing something too.  Do the diags
> just show a dead drive as "offline"?
>   I put the original RD54 back in as drive 0 and no longer get the RQDXA
> errors from the diags, but both drives 1&2, RD53s, are showing as
> offline RD51s.  What's up with that?

Cable is twisted ?

cheers

From bshannon at tiac.net  Tue Mar 19 12:12:01 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: LK201 specification
References: <3C95DF8E.6317FA02@uk.thalesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <3C977F71.7393CAE6@tiac.net>

Does anyone know if a Micro-Term Ergo 320 can use a real LK-201?

I've got a Micro-Term, but the keyboard got zapped.

Paul Williams wrote:

> LK201 specification:
>
> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/lk200fs.doc
>
> This is a plain text file, not an MS Word document!
>
> The specs are also in the VT220 Technical Manual. I've not checked to
> see whether they are identical.
>
> - Paul


From bshannon at tiac.net  Tue Mar 19 12:15:40 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
References: <02Mar18.121358est.119110@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3C97804C.DBDDD09C@tiac.net>

Netronics sold a combo keyboard and video typewriter terminal.

I have the documentation on this thing, there is one hanging off my
Elf-II.

Jeff Hellige wrote:

>         Over the last week I've had two different individuals contact
> me and offer me systems.  One was a KIM-1, including all three
> manuals, "KIM Hints" and the classic book "First Book of KIM"...all
> for $25.  The KIM is a Rev. G board and looks to be in really nice
> shape.  He had rescued it from the curbside trash outside of a
> college dorm!
>
>         The second system is a SWTPc 6800.  It includes lots of
> documentation and the SWTPc minidisk system, as well as various FLEX
> disks and a few additional boards.  He's also informed me that he's
> going to include a terminal kit that he had gotten for it.  I believe
> he said that the kit was made by Netronics...I'd have to doublecheck
> that.  It's costing me $50 plus shipping.  I don't actually have it
> yet but am certainly looking forward to receiving it!
>
>         Jeff
> --
>                       Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                 http://www.cchaven.com
>                   http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 19 12:28:18 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B4A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Berg [mailto:groovelists@yahoo.com]

> The poor ST251 looks like it might be done in for...
> Originally, it just clicked once when power was
> applied + didn't spin up. Was able to get it to spin
> up by lubing the bearings, but I think it has many

I wonder how long it would last if you actually had
to open the thing to lube the bearings anyway.. :)

> other issues. Fails a TEST 71 (disk verification
> test). Attempting to BOOT using DUA0 as default has it

You could try formatting it, then verifying.  I'm not
sure if that will make a difference.  The format 
command is some other test (72?) which I don't
really remember the number for...

> making a quiet buzzing noise for a few seconds...
> then, tries to boot from ESA0, gives a ?54 RETRY,
> tries ESA0 again, etc... Haven't quite gotten around

Well, that part is normal. :)  If the first device
doesn't work, it will switch through the devices in 
a certain order until it gets to ESA0 at the end.

> to setting up a network for it. (Could also be doing
> something wrong, too - never had a chance to work with
> any VAXen prior to this.)

Sounds ok.  Incidentally, it really will take just about
any "MFM" drive you can stuff in there.   You'll just
need to re-format it.

> Thanks again for everything - you both made things
> really easy.  :)

No problem.  2000s are really nice little machines.
I'm glad to seep people (besides me) still using
them.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From bshannon at tiac.net  Tue Mar 19 12:56:49 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: VT-320 connector (was RE: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers)
References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B5@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> 
Message-ID: <3C9789F1.C3F9AA6C@tiac.net>

I popped the small DB-25 plug out of the back, drilled it to take a cable,
and soldered RS-232 wires to the EMI inductors just behind the DB-25 blank
plug.

An ohm meter will quickly show you the right points, remeber to use the
rear-side of the inductors for soldering to to preserve their EMI
function.

You'll also need to tie a jumper from the RX- inductor to TX ground, which
is available on the handy test point comming up from the PCB.  The whole
mod can be made without taking the PCB out of the terminal.

Jeff Hellige wrote:

>         Speaking of the VT-320...does anyone have one of the adapters
> for the 320 that go from the 6-pin DEC-423 port to a 25-pin RS232
> connector?  I've got a VT-320 but can't use it due to lacking the
> connector.
>
>         Thanks and take care
>         Jeff
> --
>                            Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                          http://www.cchaven.com
>                      http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 13:04:51 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <3C97804C.DBDDD09C@tiac.net>
References: <02Mar18.121358est.119110@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C97804C.DBDDD09C@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar20.081646est.119283@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

>Netronics sold a combo keyboard and video typewriter terminal.
>
>I have the documentation on this thing, there is one hanging off my
>Elf-II.

	He said that the terminal is a Netronics Research ASCII-42 
and that he had only partially completed the kit but that it included 
the documentation and remaining parts.  He had been planning on 
rolling his own case for it but never started that and he also listed 
a RF modulator he had intended to use with it and that he was 
including.

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 13:05:32 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: TRS80 Model 1 question
In-Reply-To: <200203190139.g2J1dmx00402@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Mar 18, 2 07:39:48 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1011 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/42ba8d82/attachment.ksh
From lluu at ib-group.com  Tue Mar 19 13:12:32 2002
From: lluu at ib-group.com (Laurent Luu Red Systems IB Limited)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Value of a small VAX farm
Message-ID: 

hi 

I will be interested by the vax 7000 - And also I have a lot of 

vax 3100 4100 as 800 4100 2100  etc 
and  ds20e es40  etc ...

give me a call if you can sale them to me 

Laurent LUU 
 Account Manager & Trader Compaq Sun Cisco
IB Remarketing is a  Remarketing Products Compaq  Distributor Company. 

Red Systems IB Limited, London.
IB Remarketing SA, Paris.
0044 (0) 207 336 7333 Office London UK
0044 (0) 207 336 6546 fax London UK
0044 (0) 7796 992 664 cell phone UK

IB Remarketing
00 33 1 48 19 23 71 Office Paris
00 33 6 60 17 47 49 Cell phone Paris
00 33 6 62 08 15 02 Cell phone Paris
www.redsystems.co.uk (under construction)
www.ib-group.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/3441a3d8/attachment.html
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 13:24:56 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 19, 2 00:51:36 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 679 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/c78131ba/attachment.ksh
From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 13:34:27 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References:  <3C977304.44CE092B@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <3C9792C3.7030602@aurora.regenstrief.org>

emanuel stiebler wrote:

> Doc wrote:
> 
>>  I don't know, but I think I'm missing something too.  Do the diags
>>just show a dead drive as "offline"?
>>  I put the original RD54 back in as drive 0 and no longer get the RQDXA
>>errors from the diags, but both drives 1&2, RD53s, are showing as
>>offline RD51s.  What's up with that?
>>
> 
> Cable is twisted ?


Unlikely. The cables (at least in my small uVAX-11 cabinet) the
cables run fairly straight and it's obvious which way they are
plugged in.

Doc, to be sure, is your diagnostics showing any drive type?
You say "offline RD51". Mine is just saying "offline" and does not
say anything about "RD51" or whatever. If yours does, you are
better off than me.

We now know that all drives have to be jumpered #3, the only question
is now, what jumpers have to be plugged for this to be done right
with my drive (and I don't even know the exact type, blush :-) It's
a Micropolis, but don't see any identification other than a lengthy
part #.


regards,
-Gunther




-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 13:35:23 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C9753D3.827A671F@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <3C9792FB.2020202@aurora.regenstrief.org>

emanuel stiebler wrote:


> I hope you know this site :
> 
> 
>>Re: Ultrix Freeware Archive
>>The site is hosted by the Retro-Computing Society of RI and can be found
>>at:
>>
>>http://starfish.rcsri.org/ultrix/


Ah! Thanks, that's very helpful.

-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From tpao at co.la.ca.us  Tue Mar 19 13:45:03 2002
From: tpao at co.la.ca.us (Ted Pao)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: WTB: DEC MicroVAX II
Message-ID: 

Including drives, memory, SCSI controller and ready to go.

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 13:45:26 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318225455.00a72540@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Mar 18, 2 10:57:29 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 896 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020319/707b6f34/attachment.ksh
From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 19 13:47:36 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Chris I have 2 letter trays - looked all over for legals - nogo. Does $10
for a letter tray (includes USPS to the C-U area) sound OK to you? I'd have
to  get $12 total if you use Paypal to cover the fees or you can stay at $10
and send me a money order. Let me know when you can.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris
=> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:18 PM
=> To: Classic Computers
=> Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=>
=>
=> >I'll look and see if I have a legal - I have a box of LJ 2 and
=> III trays,
=> >not sure if I have legals left though. Shipping to the C-U area
=> from here is
=> >cheap and then a couple bucks for the tray would work. I need more space
=> >around here anyway.
=>
=> Yeah if you have one that would be great. The HP had no trays when I got
=> it. I had a spare letter try for my Apple which fits nicely (although is
=> grey rather than brown, but who cares).
=>
=> Let me know if you find a legal try (or any good parts/trays) and how
=> much you would want.
=>
=> Thanks!
=>
=> -chris
=>
=> 
=>


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 13:50:01 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C9753D3.827A671F@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <3C979669.3060008@aurora.regenstrief.org>

emanuel stiebler wrote:


> I hope you know this site :
> 
> 
>>Re: Ultrix Freeware Archive


I was just there, and the funny thing is, this is pretty much exactly
the combination of things that I was looking to getting installed.
Except for Emacs and TeX, but I will do this easily with the boost
of prebuilt stuff now. May be I should contribute my builds to this
place.


PS: Albert, Mike, I have here a diff for Ultrix 4.2 sources of 

date(1) that makes it Y2K compliant. Let me know if you need the
binary as well.

PPS: Have your guys ever tried to build Ultrix from sources? I found
some critical pieces missing, like /usr/sys/sys/kern_lmf.c and possibly
more.

regards
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 13:54:56 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <001a01c1cefe$8a014a80$6e7ba8c0@piii933>
References: <02Mar18.121358est.119110@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020319145456.007e4460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 08:28 PM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>How does one get that lucky?

   Put up a web page and ask for the stuff! That's how I got my Intel MDS 800.


     Joe


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 19 13:56:54 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Paging Gary Oliver
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A81D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

Paging Gary J. Oliver...

I think I tried this before, and didn't get a reply.

He used to work for Alpha Omega Computer Systems, Inc.

There is a gary Oliver living now near Coventry, who may
be the same guy, but a bit far from his former residence.

He'd posted here in '98 about a CDC 3300 simulator he
was working on.

If anyone knows him and/or knows how to reach him,
I'd appreciate it if you caould help facilitate
my contacting him.

Thanks,
-doug quebbeman

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 13:57:21 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: MV-II Diags Chapter 3
References: 
Message-ID: <3C979821.80302@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Doc wrote:

>>The obs determines the block size written to tape:
>>
>>dd if=file.01 of=/dev/nrmt0 bs=80
>>
> 
>   Tried that first off.  I'm still not sure why it didn't work.  I kind
> of suspect that dd was overrunning the TK50, and the mt commands allow
> the drive itself to set the pace?


Hmm, what OS are you running to do that? I had NetBSD as of
recent. I couldn't even find the mt for TK50 supporting anything
else than variable block size, but I haven't looked hard because
the dd always worked.

I think all there is to it with the block size is that once
you issue a write(2) call that's the block that ends up on
tape. With tapes that support variable length blocks that is.
The others will probably complain about overruns or underruns
when faced with a non matching write(2) data size.


>>1.5 MB? Mine was 5.5 MB and I have 255 files. What are you missing?
>>
> 
>   The *tarball* is 5.5M?  I don't know, but I got no errors and the "end
> of tape" message from cptape on both source tapes.  What version Diags
> do you have?
>   My tapes are labelled:
> 
> MVII DIAG MAINT TK50    AQ-GM5AN-DN
> MV DIAG CUST TK50       AQ-GL5AP-DN


My tapes are not labelled. But I have 255 files on it. Magic number,
isn't it :-)

-Gunther




-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 14:00:57 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C95CF1C.29524.3D923984@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020319150057.00806100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 01:01 AM 3/19/02 +0000, Tony wrote:
>> > Therefore it's probably as easy to start with a bare CPU chip...
>> 
>> Maybe, but then you have to make a board, and at least a ZX
>> compatible edge connector for all the great perhipherals ...
>> So after all, using a ZX81 is just a cheap way to get exactly
>> this.
>
>Well, if you're going to make an external keyboard, LCD interface, 
>digitiser, etc, then you're going to have to make some boards as well. 
>Might as well just stick the Z80 on one of them.


   That's true but I think they just enjoy seeing who can hang the most
stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the biggest
engine inside a Chevy Vega!


     Joe


From emu at ecubics.com  Tue Mar 19 14:24:51 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References:  <3C977304.44CE092B@ecubics.com> <3C9792C3.7030602@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C979E93.8130ACC1@ecubics.com>

Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> emanuel stiebler wrote:
> 
> > Cable is twisted ?
> 
> Unlikely. The cables (at least in my small uVAX-11 cabinet) the
> cables run fairly straight and it's obvious which way they are
> plugged in.

But you're not talking about a BA23. And that's where your surprise 
would be ;-)

cheers

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 14:33:58 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 07:24 PM 3/19/02 +0000, Tony wrote:
>> > For me it's easier to get the
>> > CORRECT drive and media than it is to cobble something up that may or may
>> > not work or be reliable!
>> 
>> FINALLY -- the voice of reason regarding the "will this media work in that
>> drive" questions.  Match the drive and the media and avoid a hassle and a
>> lot of lost data.  
>
>But why go and buy another drive 

  Buy?  Who said anything about buying???  I can get all the drives that I
want for next to nothing. If I do pay for a PC, it's only about $1 each.
FWIW  The REAL QD 80 track drives and disks are starting to become scarce
so I've started picking them up when I find them.


and go through the effort of cabling it 
>up and setting the jumpers correctly (for which you first have to find 
>documentation on the jumpers)

   I have docs for the Mitsubishi 4853 (that's what I use).

> when you've already got a drive installed 

   I have an old PC that I picked up from a trash pile that I use for disk
copying/transfers/etc. I've installed a CompatiCard and about six different
drives in. (Total cost so far: $4.00 for the CompatiCard)  I haven't put an
80 track (80 cylinder!) drive in it yet since I haven't needed one but I've
got two perfectly fine 4853s laying here and looking for a cause.

>that _will_ write DSQD disks perfectly well.

   That hasn't been my experience. Most of the times that I use a 1.2M
drive to read/write other formats, it fails. Even when it doesn't fail the
copies don't hold up well. I could NEVER read my SB 180 disks (QD) in a 1.2
Mb drive.  In fact, I finally pulled the 1.2 Mb drive out of my main PC and
put a 360k drive back into it since the 5 1/4" drive was used almost
entirely for reading/writing old disks.

   Joe


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Tue Mar 19 14:45:34 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: <3C95CF1C.29524.3D923984@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20020319150057.00806100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3C97A36E.DF30ED66@jetnet.ab.ca>

Joe wrote:

> >Well, if you're going to make an external keyboard, LCD interface,
> >digitiser, etc, then you're going to have to make some boards as well.
> >Might as well just stick the Z80 on one of them.
> 
>    That's true but I think they just enjoy seeing who can hang the most
> stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the biggest
> engine inside a Chevy Vega!
> 
>      Joe

I kind of thought the ZX81 was a VW Bug :)

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Tue Mar 19 15:06:47 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C97A36E.DF30ED66@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
> > stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the biggest
> > engine inside a Chevy Vega!
> I kind of thought the ZX81 was a VW Bug :)

In that case, the Buick V-6 is a good choice.  It needs a bit of body work
to fit, although in a bus it fits almost as if it were meant to be there.


Is there a Linux port for the ZX81?


From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Tue Mar 19 15:11:38 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:45:34 MST."
             <3C97A36E.DF30ED66@jetnet.ab.ca> 
Message-ID: <200203192111.VAA11632@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

Ben Franchuk  said:
> Joe wrote:
> 
> > >Well, if you're going to make an external keyboard, LCD interface,
> > >digitiser, etc, then you're going to have to make some boards as well.
> > >Might as well just stick the Z80 on one of them.
> > 
> >    That's true but I think they just enjoy seeing who can hang the most
> > stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the biggest
> > engine inside a Chevy Vega!
> > 
> >      Joe
> 
> I kind of thought the ZX81 was a VW Bug :)

I've seen one of _those_ with a V8 ;-)

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:16:11 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Ultrix source (was Re: playing with the VAX 6460)
In-Reply-To: <3C979669.3060008@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020319211611.87373.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> PPS: Have your guys ever tried to build Ultrix from sources? I found
> some critical pieces missing, like /usr/sys/sys/kern_lmf.c and possibly
> more.
> 
> regards
> -Gunther

Hmmm... I wonder how *that* could have been misplaced?  :-)

I used to play with Ultrix back in the VAX-11/7xx days and Ultrix 1.0
through 2.2 (and Ultrix-32m for uVAX).  I don't ever recall attempting
to build from sources.  I remember copying a config file to the name
of my machine (TUNA, K-PANDA, FALCON, etc.) and going through the
usual gyrations (and some unusual ones since we shipped an Ultrix
device driver for our COMBOARDs).

Even as an OEM _with_ a $35K AT&T source license (still have a photo-
copy of that for an expensive wall hanging!) we didn't have full
Ultrix source, just full SYS III and SYS V source for 11/780 and
11/750 (respectively), AFAIK.

Did DEC ever make "full Ultrix Source" an add-on software product?

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 15:28:12 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
 <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

>    I have docs for the Mitsubishi 4853 (that's what I use).

Joe,

	What machine do you use the 4853 in?

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:30:22 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse
In-Reply-To: <000601c1ced3$8ce0d250$0100a8c0@david>
Message-ID: <20020319213022.38925.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- DAVID YOUNG  wrote:
> yes it's a regular mouse, 2 feet no ball

This has to be the punchline to a really baaad joke.

... or the set-up to "that reminds me of girl I used to know..." :-)

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:33:27 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Disassembling a Vaxstation 2000
In-Reply-To: <200203182300.g2IN0xo01718@shell1.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020319213327.39624.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Zane H. Healy"  wrote:
> > I've managed to get the case open, but... well, this
> > is rather embarassing... I can't quite seem to figure
> > out how to get the drive itself out. 

It's tough... there's a couple of screws that may be tough to get to.  I
haven't opened mine in a few years, but ISTR I had to at least lift the
MB up in its cage, if not remove it first (being careful not to stress
the drive cables at the back, etc.)

> In this case isn't the HD on a sled like the BA23's and BA123's use? 

Not in a VS-2000 box.  The drive(s) hang(s) on screw-on rails, plates,
really, that themselves fit into slots on the main chassis and screw
down to it.  No sled.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From foo at siconic.com  Tue Mar 19 15:34:30 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: trivial KIM question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:

> 	When I received my VIM-1 it included the 'MCS6500
> Microcoputer Hardware Manual', first edition, dated August 1975.  It
> has a blue cover with white text.  With the KIM-1 I just picked up I
> received the same manual, 2nd edition, dated January 1976 and it has
> a white cover with blue text.  So far, other than some modifications
> to a few drawings and diagrams, I've found little difference between
> the two.  Is there a signifigance to the color change to the cover?

The VIM-1 one is an entirely different computer from the KIM-1, having
been designed by Ray Holt, who was later forced to change the name of it
to the SYM-1 when Commodore got pissed at him.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 15:43:53 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: TI 980B picture
Message-ID: <20020319214353.18356.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>


As requested, I have posted a picture of my recently aquired TI980B at...

    http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/pix/ti980b/02cj003a.jpg

I am still in the cleaning/checkout phase.  I have not applied power to
it yet.

I need to get a better digital camera.  Right now, I'm using an Apple
QuickTake 150, but I don't have the close-up lens.  It would cost new
from Apple about 50% of what I paid for the camera, PSU, external
battery pack and download cable.  :-(  As it is, I've taken hundreds
of excellent outdoor shots with it.  It's awful for indoor photos
where detail is important.  I think its default minimum focal length
is about 24" and the flash is so bright it causes spots on reflective
surfaces (the closeup lens also has a flash diffuser).

I might try to rig up a 2' string and a flash diffuser to at least not
take pictures that will be clearly outside the boundaries of the camera's
physical limitations, but even so, I still need a new camera.  My current
favorite is a Kodak DC290.  The only thing I've seen with as much manual
control that's newer is the DC4800.  Comparing them side-by-side, I
still think I want the DC290.  Even got a fistful of 16MB CF cards to
go in it!

As for the TI 980B, with the exception of the very scary, undocumented,
rack-mounted 2-square-feet of prototyping board that was cabled into
the DMA slot, it looks very clean.  I have no idea what this peripheal
was supposed to do, and since it was stored at a high-school electronics
shop (which is being cleaned out this year which is how I got the TI
in the first place), it's covered in bent pins and broken wires.  I also
know there are several missing chips (they came in the bottom of the
box - some jumper blocks with jumper resistors and a few 74181s, at least).
I doubt I'll ever be able to discern what this homemade peripheral ever
did, so I expect to photograph it and recycle the chips into other
classic machines (there's some Motorola RTL chips on there!  Perfect
for my attempts to replicate a DEC W706/W707 if I ever get that far).

If I can get my camera happy making closeups, I'll see about adding some
pictures of the CPU and memory boards to the pic of the front panel.

-ethan




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From ekklein at pacbell.net  Tue Mar 19 15:50:04 2002
From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik and Karen Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020319145456.007e4460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cf90$074f1cb0$6e7ba8c0@piii933>

Hehe.

Okay.  I'm in the process of documenting/cataloging my collection for
just that purpose.  (creating a my collection website)

I just got my DEC Pro 350 working again last night so I can take one
more set of pictures.

   Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:55 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: KIM-1 & SWTPc 6800

At 08:28 PM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>How does one get that lucky?

   Put up a web page and ask for the stuff! That's how I got my Intel
MDS 800.


     Joe


From dittman at dittman.net  Tue Mar 19 15:52:25 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Ultrix source (was Re: playing with the VAX 6460)
In-Reply-To: <20020319211611.87373.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 19, 2002 01:16:11 PM
Message-ID: <200203192152.g2JLqPB04691@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> > PPS: Have your guys ever tried to build Ultrix from sources? I found
> > some critical pieces missing, like /usr/sys/sys/kern_lmf.c and possibly
> > more.
> > 
> > regards
> > -Gunther
> 
> Hmmm... I wonder how *that* could have been misplaced?  :-)

They've never shipped the LMF source as part of the standard
Ultrix/Digital Unix/Tru64/VMS source.

> Even as an OEM _with_ a $35K AT&T source license (still have a photo-
> copy of that for an expensive wall hanging!) we didn't have full
> Ultrix source, just full SYS III and SYS V source for 11/780 and
> 11/750 (respectively), AFAIK.
> 
> Did DEC ever make "full Ultrix Source" an add-on software product?

I believe you could get the full source for any of the operating
systems for megabucks and an NDA.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Tue Mar 19 15:53:16 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664C0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>



> Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
	>PPS: Have your guys ever tried to build Ultrix from sources? I
found
	>some critical pieces missing, like /usr/sys/sys/kern_lmf.c and
possibly
	>more.

	Having used Ultrix maybe for a few days total
	(and that was perhaps five years ago) I'm
	probably not in the class of user that builds
	it from sources :-) but I'll try not to let that
	inhibit me from replying ...

	The lmf bit of the filename suggests 
	Licence Management Facility to me.
	DEC never intended this as anything 
	other than a tripwire (at least on 
	OpenVMS) meaning that although
	you could fairly easily get around it,
	you'd have a hard time arguing in court
	that you just typed in something by 
	accident! Giving away the sources
	would have lowered the "energy barrier"
	too much, so it was always dropped
	from the OpenVMS Source Listings
	distribution. AFAIK, all LMF implementations
	were based on the same core ideas, so
	it would have been hard to release
	the innards on any platform.

	Antonio


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 19 15:58:28 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A821@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> --- DAVID YOUNG  wrote:
> > yes it's a regular mouse, 2 feet no ball
> 
> This has to be the punchline to a really baaad joke.
> 
> ... or the set-up to "that reminds me of girl I used to know..." :-)

I'd assumed the extremely slow feed today was due to
some new OFF-TOPIC filter that Jay had put in place, 
and thus avoided posting, as I'd hate my friends here
to be depraved^H^H^H^Hived...

But if so, it sill needs work...

-dq

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Tue Mar 19 15:59:20 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:33 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
In-Reply-To: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org>; from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:19:42 CET
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020319225920.A276743@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 02:19:42AM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Tried to build at least bash, but once again cpp woes in
> the lib/readline build 
Have a look at the pdksh:
ftp://ftp.cs.mun.ca/pub/pdksh/ 
http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/utils/shells/pdksh/ 
ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/unix/shells/pdksh/ 
ftp://ftp.demon.net/pub/mirrors/pdksh/ 
ftp://ftp.rge.com/pub/shells/pdksh/
This is the ksh(1) of NetBSD. With 
VISUAL=emacs
bind ^I=complete
set -o braceexpand
in your .profile it is that much easy to use for a long years bash user,
that I have no need for installing bash on a NetBSD machine.
And: I was able to get it build on 2.11BSD on my PDP 11/73!
(OK, it dups core at startup, but I got it compiled on a K&R
cmpiler with minor hacks and got the overlays managed.)

> (and readline is really my main reason for wanting bash!)
You mean all you want is a sh(1) like shell with history and command
line editing? Go for pdksh. It doesn't use readline, so there are some 
differences in the editor, but you will get used to it soon. 

> Tried to play with 4.3BSD sources, Tahoe and Quasijarus.
This will not be of much help. There is no support for the VAX6k
CPUs nor the XMI bus in any 4.3BSD.

> I must have FTPed the Quasijarus files in ASCII mode or
> Michael is using a strange compress format, as neither
> Ultrix compress nor gzip recognizes it as theirs. 
FAQ: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Quasijarus/compress.html
Once you read that, you will understand that M. Sokolov has a, 
uhhm, "very special" personality. 

> Noticed that the TUHS archive's Tahoe version has some broken
> files (as noted in BROKEN) that's sad. 
Get the CSRG archive CDs from Mr. McKusick: 
http://www.mckusick.com/csrg/index.html
There is all the good old BSD stuff, direct from the Daemon him self. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 19 16:00:58 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: What's Need to Connect TS05 to PDP 11/23
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A822@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

I know there is going to be a catch to this...

But which interface card will I need to add a TS05
(Cipher streamer 9-track drive) to a PDP-11/23?

Like "which version of the 11/23", and there's an
11/23+ too, isn't there?

I'm not sure of which it might be; I have a photo,
but it's not very high-res.

tia,
-doug q

From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 19 16:05:25 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

crap this should have gone direct to Chris.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:48 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=>
=>
=> Chris I have 2 letter trays - looked all over for legals - nogo. Does $10
=> for a letter tray (includes USPS to the C-U area) sound OK to
=> you? I'd have
=> to  get $12 total if you use Paypal to cover the fees or you can
=> stay at $10
=> and send me a money order. Let me know when you can.
=>
=> => -----Original Message-----
=> => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris
=> => Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:18 PM
=> => To: Classic Computers
=> => Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=> =>
=> =>
=> => >I'll look and see if I have a legal - I have a box of LJ 2 and
=> => III trays,
=> => >not sure if I have legals left though. Shipping to the C-U area
=> => from here is
=> => >cheap and then a couple bucks for the tray would work. I
=> need more space
=> => >around here anyway.
=> =>
=> => Yeah if you have one that would be great. The HP had no trays
=> when I got
=> => it. I had a spare letter try for my Apple which fits nicely
=> (although is
=> => grey rather than brown, but who cares).
=> =>
=> => Let me know if you find a legal try (or any good parts/trays) and how
=> => much you would want.
=> =>
=> => Thanks!
=> =>
=> => -chris
=> =>
=> => 
=> =>
=>
=>


From dittman at dittman.net  Tue Mar 19 16:17:04 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664C0@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Mar 19, 2002 01:53:16 PM
Message-ID: <200203192217.g2JMH4K04861@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> 	The lmf bit of the filename suggests 
> 	Licence Management Facility to me.
> 	DEC never intended this as anything 
> 	other than a tripwire (at least on 
> 	OpenVMS) meaning that although
> 	you could fairly easily get around it,
> 	you'd have a hard time arguing in court
> 	that you just typed in something by 
> 	accident! Giving away the sources
> 	would have lowered the "energy barrier"
> 	too much, so it was always dropped
> 	from the OpenVMS Source Listings
> 	distribution. AFAIK, all LMF implementations
> 	were based on the same core ideas, so
> 	it would have been hard to release
> 	the innards on any platform.

The LMF bits are the same.  The license fields match and the
checksum calculations are the same between the operating systems.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 16:32:28 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Ultrix source (was Re: playing with the VAX 6460)
References: <200203192152.g2JLqPB04691@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <3C97BC7C.2050209@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Eric Dittman wrote:

>>>PPS: Have your guys ever tried to build Ultrix from sources? I found
>>>some critical pieces missing, like /usr/sys/sys/kern_lmf.c and possibly
>>>more.
>>>
>>>regards
>>>-Gunther
>>>
>>Hmmm... I wonder how *that* could have been misplaced?  :-)
>>
> 
> They've never shipped the LMF source as part of the standard
> Ultrix/Digital Unix/Tru64/VMS source.
> 
> 
>>Even as an OEM _with_ a $35K AT&T source license (still have a photo-
>>copy of that for an expensive wall hanging!) we didn't have full
>>Ultrix source, just full SYS III and SYS V source for 11/780 and
>>11/750 (respectively), AFAIK.
>>
>>Did DEC ever make "full Ultrix Source" an add-on software product?
>>
> 
> I believe you could get the full source for any of the operating
> systems for megabucks and an NDA.


Well, I do have the UNIX source license :-). It's somehow a weird
thing with those Ultrix sources, they sometimes materialize in
cyberspace out of nothing. I'm not even sure I have them or ever
had them. But it sure would be nice if Compaq could be convinced
to make this available. I guess that many, many classic computer
folks are walking on a gray area when using any kind of Ultrix
that they may have inherited with an old machine or disk or
purchased off Ebay or whatever.

I did find out/guess that kern_lmf.c is really the key to the
License Management Facility, the thing that among other stuff
keeps me from having more than 2 telnet sessions to my VAX at
the same time. One workaround for the telnet stuff, I heard, is
to simply replace the login program using some BSD sources or
whatever. I'll see if this will do. The kern_lmf.o is an interesting
beast that wants to be peeked inside to see what it does and who
calls it etc. I suppose it is not so critical after all if one
can make a dummy replacement for it.

regards
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 16:35:48 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References:  <3C977304.44CE092B@ecubics.com> <3C9792C3.7030602@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C979E93.8130ACC1@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <3C97BD44.7040309@aurora.regenstrief.org>

emanuel stiebler wrote:

> Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
>>emanuel stiebler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Cable is twisted ?
>>>
>>Unlikely. The cables (at least in my small uVAX-11 cabinet) the
>>cables run fairly straight and it's obvious which way they are
>>plugged in.
>>
> 
> But you're not talking about a BA23. And that's where your surprise 
> would be ;-)


I think I do (I can never memorize the BA-xxx numbers.) Now,
what do you mean by "that's where your surprize would be" and
the smile? Do you know the secret to my problem?

regards
-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Tue Mar 19 16:47:48 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <20020319225920.A276743@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: <3C97C014.3050808@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Jochen Kunz wrote:


>>(and readline is really my main reason for wanting bash!)
>>
> You mean all you want is a sh(1) like shell with history and command
> line editing? Go for pdksh. It doesn't use readline, so there are some 
> differences in the editor, but you will get used to it soon. 


Thanks, but I now have bash binary and am ready to make a
GCC that can compile it. I found out that the problem may
not be cpp as much as the Ultrix /bin/sh that's not
completely upt to the task of autoconf.


>>Tried to play with 4.3BSD sources, Tahoe and Quasijarus.
>>
> This will not be of much help. There is no support for the VAX6k
> CPUs nor the XMI bus in any 4.3BSD.


Well, my main project with the VAX6000 is to eventually have
XMI support for NetBSD. And playing with old 4.3BSD is sort
of on the sidelines of getting this done.


>>I must have FTPed the Quasijarus files in ASCII mode or
>>Michael is using a strange compress format, as neither
>>Ultrix compress nor gzip recognizes it as theirs. 
>>
> FAQ: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Quasijarus/compress.html
> Once you read that, you will understand that M. Sokolov has a, 
> uhhm, "very special" personality. 


Ah, I knew there was something. Yeah, some poeple are
different :-).


>>Noticed that the TUHS archive's Tahoe version has some broken
>>files (as noted in BROKEN) that's sad. 
>>
> Get the CSRG archive CDs from Mr. McKusick: 
> http://www.mckusick.com/csrg/index.html
> There is all the good old BSD stuff, direct from the Daemon him self. 


Yes, when I have the money to spare. But I'm glad you are
confident that these bits are preserved somewhere from the
bitrot that has bitten the TUHS archive's version.

regards,
-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From cisin at xenosoft.com  Tue Mar 19 17:40:16 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Yeah, but if we had known sooner what you wanted, ...
At the last Foothill, there was a LJ2 for FREE.  I didn't take it because
of the extreme difficulty I had finding a home for the last one.  It had a
letter and a legal tray.  I didn't take those because I felt that whoever
took the whole thing was entitled to them.


On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> crap this should have gone direct to Chris.
> 
> => -----Original Message-----
> => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman
> => Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:48 PM
> => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
> =>
> =>
> => Chris I have 2 letter trays - looked all over for legals - nogo. Does $10
> => for a letter tray (includes USPS to the C-U area) sound OK to
> => you? I'd have
> => to  get $12 total if you use Paypal to cover the fees or you can
> => stay at $10
> => and send me a money order. Let me know when you can.
> =>


From tosteve at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 18:30:14 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Info wanted on old Memorex model 214 HD
Message-ID: <20020320003014.75413.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
  Does anyone here have any info on this old hard
drive I bought at "Weird Stuff"?

  It's a Memorex model 214 - weighs about 50 lbs, has
4 6" platters I think.

  I'm interested in it origin, use, size, etc.

Thanks!
Steve.

pics here:
http://68.5.43.239:8000/amigapics/hd1.jpg
http://68.5.43.239:8000/amigapics/2.jpg



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 19 18:39:33 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
References: 
Message-ID: <000d01c1cfa7$b466ab40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Let me check... I have half a dozen of these in various states of repair and
probably, IIRC, have one extra legal tray.  I can probably part with that if
it will do someone some good.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT


> Yeah, but if we had known sooner what you wanted, ...
> At the last Foothill, there was a LJ2 for FREE.  I didn't take it because
> of the extreme difficulty I had finding a home for the last one.  It had a
> letter and a legal tray.  I didn't take those because I felt that whoever
> took the whole thing was entitled to them.
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> > crap this should have gone direct to Chris.
> >
> > => -----Original Message-----
> > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman
> > => Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:48 PM
> > => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > => Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
> > =>
> > =>
> > => Chris I have 2 letter trays - looked all over for legals - nogo. Does
$10
> > => for a letter tray (includes USPS to the C-U area) sound OK to
> > => you? I'd have
> > => to  get $12 total if you use Paypal to cover the fees or you can
> > => stay at $10
> > => and send me a money order. Let me know when you can.
> > =>
>
>


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 20:11:09 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: trivial KIM question
In-Reply-To: <20020320003014.75413.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020320003014.75413.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

	When I received my VIM-1 it included the 'MCS6500 
Microcoputer Hardware Manual', first edition, dated August 1975.  It 
has a blue cover with white text.  With the KIM-1 I just picked up I 
received the same manual, 2nd edition, dated January 1976 and it has 
a white cover with blue text.  So far, other than some modifications 
to a few drawings and diagrams, I've found little difference between 
the two.  Is there a signifigance to the color change to the cover?

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From vaxman at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 20:41:46 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: WTB: DEC MicroVAX II
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


Hi Ted,

I've got one I'm willing to sell for $2000 FOB Denver, CO. 

Includes KA630, 16MB RAM, DHV11, CMD-240/TM, TK50, 1.2GB 
SCSI drive, RQDX3 if you want it, pedestal or world box, 
VMS or NetBSD installed and tested. Let me know what your 
shipping address is, and I'll get a freight quote to you.

Might be cheaper to get one off EBay, and do the testing
yourself however.

Best Regards,
Clint

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ted Pao wrote:

> Including drives, memory, SCSI controller and ready to go.
> 


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 19 20:54:36 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: trivial KIM question
References: <20020320003014.75413.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <002a01c1cfba$92e173c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Back in the '70's I gave away my blue cover manual when I decided there was no
significant difference.  Note that this newer manual, the one I kept, has a
pretty thorough description of what appears on the pins of the CPU during
every clock phase of every clock cycle of every instruction.  I've seen no
other manual that does that so thoroughly.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:11 PM
Subject: trivial KIM question


> When I received my VIM-1 it included the 'MCS6500
> Microcoputer Hardware Manual', first edition, dated August 1975.  It
> has a blue cover with white text.  With the KIM-1 I just picked up I
> received the same manual, 2nd edition, dated January 1976 and it has
> a white cover with blue text.  So far, other than some modifications
> to a few drawings and diagrams, I've found little difference between
> the two.  Is there a signifigance to the color change to the cover?
>
> Jeff
> --
>                            Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                          http://www.cchaven.com
>                      http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
>
>


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 20:59:29 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: TI 980A picture (was Re: TI 980B picture)
In-Reply-To: <20020319214353.18356.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020320025929.72827.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> 
> As requested, I have posted a picture of my recently aquired TI980B at...
> 
>     http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/pix/ti980b/02cj003a.jpg

Oops!  It appears I can't read (up too late last night/this morning).  It
is a TI980*A* as can be seen on the right side of the picture.  It's now
at

     http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/pix/ti980a/02cj003a.jpg

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From pat at purdueriots.com  Tue Mar 19 21:28:12 2002
From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Keyboard conversions
Message-ID: 

With all this talk about making a LK201 work on a PC or vice versa - and
this moderately-broken Amiga keyboard I have laying around - I was
wondering if anyone could give me some info so I design/build an adaptor
to make a PC (perhaps mac or some other KB) work with an Amiga?  With the
lack of a surplus of Amiga kb's on the eBay market, I was thinking it
might be a worthwhile hack.

Mostly I guess I just want a source of info about the Amiga keyboard (this
is for an A2000 btw) so I could think about how I might design it.

Thanks

-- Pat


From mythtech at mac.com  Tue Mar 19 22:11:59 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
Message-ID: 

>Chris I have 2 letter trays - looked all over for legals - nogo. Does $10
>for a letter tray (includes USPS to the C-U area) sound OK to you? I'd have
>to  get $12 total if you use Paypal to cover the fees or you can stay at $10
>and send me a money order. Let me know when you can.

I would say the price sounds great... but I have spare letter trays 
already, so I don't need more.

Sorry :-(

-chris




From mythtech at mac.com  Tue Mar 19 22:12:49 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
Message-ID: 

>crap this should have gone direct to Chris.

Crap... and my reply should have gone straight to you. (I didn't even 
look that it was actually addressed to the group)

Sorry again!

-chris




From mythtech at mac.com  Tue Mar 19 22:15:20 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
Message-ID: 

>Let me check... I have half a dozen of these in various states of repair and
>probably, IIRC, have one extra legal tray.  I can probably part with that if
>it will do someone some good.

Yes... I am still on the hunt for a legal tray for that printer engine (I 
don't care specifically which model it comes from, as long as it fits the 
SX engine that is used in the HP LJ 2, and Apple LW IINT among other 
printers that use it)

I do have enough letter trays, so I am only in need of a legal size tray 
(and if anyone has it, an envelope tray might come in handy as well)

-chris




From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 19 23:06:08 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020320050733.KPAM7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Pete Turnbull 

> > Wasn't the ZX81 board already prepared to use a 6116 instead ?
> 
> Yes, it was.  I put 6116's in several.

Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a 6116?

Thanks,

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 19 23:16:13 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <20020320051737.XZBI20601.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> It's not a kludge to use a HD drive to write DSQD disks. It's _designed_ 
> to do it. 

If a drive is *designed* to use a certain type of media, then of course
it's not a kludge.

As I originally said, match the media and the drive and live a happy life
;>)

Glen
0/0


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 19 23:21:41 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
References: 
Message-ID: <001901c1cfcf$1e869180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yes, I definitely have an extra LJIII-type legal size tray.  COntact me
off-list and we can work out details.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" 
To: "Classic Computers" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT


> >Let me check... I have half a dozen of these in various states of repair
and
> >probably, IIRC, have one extra legal tray.  I can probably part with that
if
> >it will do someone some good.
>
> Yes... I am still on the hunt for a legal tray for that printer engine (I
> don't care specifically which model it comes from, as long as it fits the
> SX engine that is used in the HP LJ 2, and Apple LW IINT among other
> printers that use it)
>
> I do have enough letter trays, so I am only in need of a legal size tray
> (and if anyone has it, an envelope tray might come in handy as well)
>
> -chris
>
> 
>
>


From rhb57 at vol.com  Tue Mar 19 23:24:31 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

If I come across a bunch of legal sized trays I'll let you (and the group)
know. They fit the II, IID, III and IIID so there's plenty of need for them
out there.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:13 PM
=> To: Classic Computers
=> Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=>
=>
=> >crap this should have gone direct to Chris.
=>
=> Crap... and my reply should have gone straight to you. (I didn't even
=> look that it was actually addressed to the group)
=>
=> Sorry again!
=>
=> -chris
=>
=> 
=>
=>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 19 23:34:13 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020320053538.QZOC19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Joe 

>    That's true but I think they just enjoy seeing who can hang the most
> stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the
biggest
> engine inside a Chevy Vega!

After considering this, I think you've hit the nail on the head, Joe,
except that the only thing we don't change is the engine!  The Z80, ROM and
ULA *have* to be present!

Our goals seem to be:

1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
toilet seat.
2 -- Write software to perform every task ever performed by any computer
anywhere.  The software should be 100% Z80 machine code and should push the
ZX81 as hard as possible.
3 -- Do all of the above for US $25 or less.

I hope everyone has as much fun with their old computers as I have with
mine!

Glen
0/0


From nerdware at ctgonline.org  Tue Mar 19 23:37:51 2002
From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Keyboard conversions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3C97CBCF.20260.ADA1071@localhost>

I remember back in the day this was a relatively popular hack, but 
it required a converter box since the electronics in an Amiga 
keyboard aren't the same as those of a PC. I think a couple of the 
Amiga magazines had articles on how to do it, and there were a 
couple of commercial adapter boxes available.



> With all this talk about making a LK201 work on a PC or vice versa -
> and this moderately-broken Amiga keyboard I have laying around - I was
> wondering if anyone could give me some info so I design/build an
> adaptor to make a PC (perhaps mac or some other KB) work with an
> Amiga?  With the lack of a surplus of Amiga kb's on the eBay market, I
> was thinking it might be a worthwhile hack.
> 
> Mostly I guess I just want a source of info about the Amiga keyboard
> (this is for an A2000 btw) so I could think about how I might design
> it.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- Pat






Paul Braun WD9GCO
Cygnus Productions
nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com

"A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head."

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 20 00:05:45 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: <20020320053538.QZOC19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:

> 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> toilet seat.

That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
almost empty ?

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From hugh at openbsd.org  Wed Mar 20 00:19:22 2002
From: hugh at openbsd.org (Hugh Graham)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Trouble in VAX land.
Message-ID: <20020319221922.A15385@argus.oxide.org>

Almost two years ago I received a VAX 4000 100 on "long term loan"
from a local university.

It has served faithfully, building three OpenBSD/vax releases and many
snapshots between then and now, but... last night it quit!

Luckily, it appears to be only the power supply at fault. Results of
two attempts at firing the machine up:

: KA52-A V1.1, VMB 2.14
: Performing normal system tests.
: 72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64..63..62..61..60..59..
: KA52-A V1.1, VMB 2.14
: Performing normal system tests.
: 72..71..70..69..68..67..66..65..64..
  
It runs for a bit, and powers off.

I've isolated the power supply from the machine, and nothing is
obviously burned out, but it still only runs for a second or two.

So I find myself in need of a replacement PSU. I believe that even an
older MicroVAX 3100 system can donate a compatible unit, and if you have
such hardware you can raid, please find a screwdriver and let me know.

It's important this machine or its successor be back building soon, and
if desired I will pay for shipping of suitable hardware from anywhere in
North America to here, Vancouver, Canada.

BTW, if you happen to be in South America or Western Europe, and have a
VAX you don't know what to do with, let me hear about this as well. We
have developers in Argentina and France who are eager to obtain machines
of their own to hack on.

Thanks folks,

/Hugh

From jpl15 at panix.com  Wed Mar 20 00:39:15 2002
From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:

> Glen Goodwin wrote:
>
> > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > toilet seat.
>
> That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> almost empty ?


  Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to one serial port on
a PDP-11 running a backround job counting total turns, comparing against
approximate turns-to-roll-exhaustion, and triggering (thru another serial
port) an appropriate alarm, or perhaps printing out a TP-LO Warning.

  Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
hands?


  Cheerz

John



From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 00:48:13 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:

> Glen Goodwin wrote:
>
> > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > toilet seat.
>
> That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> almost empty ?

  Ummm, an infrared laser & sensor array at the crucial point?

	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 20 01:12:45 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam (Doc)
References: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>
	
Message-ID: <15512.13933.3320.217413@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 20, Doc wrote:
> > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > > toilet seat.
> >
> > That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> > almost empty ?
> 
>   Ummm, an infrared laser & sensor array at the crucial point?

  Hmm, what about buffer overflow detection?

  Excessive packet...erm...length?

  UDP...User Droppings Protocol.

  Eeew.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 20 01:12:54 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
References: 
Message-ID: <001501c1cfde$a7d92600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

The thing to keep in mind, however, is that the ones that fit the II/IID and
III/IIID will fit the comparable apple-compatibles, but they won't fit the IIP
or IIIP, unless memory totally fails me.

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Blakeman" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT


> If I come across a bunch of legal sized trays I'll let you (and the group)
> know. They fit the II, IID, III and IIID so there's plenty of need for them
> out there.
>
> => -----Original Message-----
> => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris
> => Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:13 PM
> => To: Classic Computers
> => Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
> =>
> =>
> => >crap this should have gone direct to Chris.
> =>
> => Crap... and my reply should have gone straight to you. (I didn't even
> => look that it was actually addressed to the group)
> =>
> => Sorry again!
> =>
> => -chris
> =>
> => 
> =>
> =>
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 01:45:12 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <15512.13933.3320.217413@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   Hmm, what about buffer overflow detection?
>
>   Excessive packet...erm...length?
>
>   UDP...User Droppings Protocol.
>

Dave,
  Go stand in the corner.

	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:26 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam (Doc)
References: <15512.13933.3320.217413@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15512.23154.748260.884099@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 20, Doc wrote:
> >   Hmm, what about buffer overflow detection?
> >
> >   Excessive packet...erm...length?
> >
> >   UDP...User Droppings Protocol.
> >
> 
> Dave,
>   Go stand in the corner.

  Oh c'mon Doc.  Surely I didn't get you with THAT one. ;)

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Wed Mar 20 03:58:40 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: What's Need to Connect TS05 to PDP 11/23
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A822@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C985D50.C1E9599@Vishay.com>


Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> I know there is going to be a catch to this...
> 
> But which interface card will I need to add a TS05
> (Cipher streamer 9-track drive) to a PDP-11/23?

Why a catch? - The 11/23 has a low-order digit of three, which
identifies it as a Q-bus machine. So you need a subsystem called TSV05
(as opposed to the UNIBUS TSU05), and the controller is M7196. Takes
6.5A @ 5V, counts as 3 AC / 1 DC loads on the logic lines.

Standard Addresses / Vectors:

	772520	224	1st unit
	772524	...	2nd unit
	772530	...	3rd unit
	772534	...	4th unit

where "..." means rank 37 in the floating vector area. You're lucky: I
just had my "LSI-11 Systems Service Manual" at hand. ;-)

> Like "which version of the 11/23", and there's an
> 11/23+ too, isn't there?

Right, but shouldn't matter for this purpose. Sure, the TSV05 is a DMA
controller, so the number of address lines in the system is a concern,
but, the /23 has at least 18 address bits, and that should do. (See the
addresses from the manual: these show 6 octal digits = 18 bits!)

Ah, well, there is an "extended features switch" (pack at E58, position
9). This switch must be "on" for 22-bit addressing (and for streaming in
100ips mode, IIRC). Maybe this is the catch you're looking for?

I have not yet installed mine, however... - will be in a /23-PLUS.
Currently, I only have a TSU05 available (and am still looking for the
switch desingations...).

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 04:08:11 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: trivial KIM question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

>The VIM-1 one is an entirely different computer from the KIM-1, having
>been designed by Ray Holt, who was later forced to change the name of it
>to the SYM-1 when Commodore got pissed at him.

	Yes, but the two manuals are both written and published by 
MOS and I can see few differences between the two.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From vcf at siconic.com  Wed Mar 20 05:02:50 2002
From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Plexus minicomputer?
Message-ID: 


Anyone know about Plexus minicomputers?  I am going to pick one up soon.
I'm told it's about 3-4 feet high by 2 feet wide by 5-6 feet deep, and
heavy.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From I.R.King at plymouth.ac.uk  Wed Mar 20 05:39:02 2002
From: I.R.King at plymouth.ac.uk (Ian King)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Digital DEClaser 1100
Message-ID: <429FEE3FD9597E4788D82B2966AD8F7C299B44@ils099.uopnet.plymouth.ac.uk>

Hi,

Does anybody have a Digital DEClaser 1100 manual -  I need one for a
machine I have recently obtained.

Thanks

Ian

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 20 06:43:56 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: trivial KIM question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020320003014.75413.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C98921C.9680.485BEEB5@localhost>

> 	When I received my VIM-1 it included the 'MCS6500 
> Microcoputer Hardware Manual', first edition, dated August 1975.  It 
> has a blue cover with white text.  With the KIM-1 I just picked up I 
> received the same manual, 2nd edition, dated January 1976 and it has 
> a white cover with blue text.  So far, other than some modifications 
> to a few drawings and diagrams, I've found little difference between 
> the two.  Is there a signifigance to the color change to the cover?

No, they just changed the color twice. I have no Idea why.
The first edition Covers are Blue with a marble like texture
and white Letters. The Second edition was plain white with
blue Lettersx, all while later issues where blue (on 'bumpy'
cardboard paper) with white letters. AFAIK all later blue
ones belong to the Commodore age.

Gruss
H.


--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 20 06:56:33 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: playing with the VAX 6460
In-Reply-To: <3C97C014.3050808@aurora.regenstrief.org>
References: <3C96E68E.2010804@aurora.regenstrief.org> <20020319225920.A276743@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C97C014.3050808@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020320135633.A278572@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 05:47:48PM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Well, my main project with the VAX6000 is to eventually have
> XMI support for NetBSD. 
Ask Ragge. Maybe he can give you some docs. There are already some VAX 
6k bits in the source, but nothing usable. 

> And playing with old 4.3BSD is sort
> of on the sidelines of getting this done.
Wasn't it Isildur who got 4.3BSD-Tahoe running on the MV4k705a?
Would be cool to have a patch to get it on a 6K too...

> Yes, when I have the money to spare. But I'm glad you are
> confident that these bits are preserved somewhere from the
> bitrot that has bitten the TUHS archive's version.
I did a full build of -Tahoe on my MV III last weekend with the source
from the CSRG CDROMs. (To replace that Quasi-BSD stuff, that I used to 
bootstrap the machine...) Was not hard to do. But now I have to put the 
CSRG patches from the PUPS archive into this, as plain -Tahoe does 
support only the KA630 on the QBus side...
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 20 06:59:52 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020320050733.KPAM7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C9895D8.25551.486A84C7@localhost>

> > > Wasn't the ZX81 board already prepared to use a 6116 instead ?
> > Yes, it was.  I put 6116's in several.

> Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a 6116?

Well, I'm not pete, but the process is quite simple:

Take out your board, and look at the RAMs - near the left
Chip you'll notice markings and drilled plated thru holes
which exactly resembles the 6116 - the left 2114 is located
halfways in that area - unsolder the 2114s and solder in
the 6116 - although I recomend soldering a socket, so you
may play around with other 6116 compatible modules, like
batery buffered RAMs or the RAM/clock combination from Dallas.
IMHO a real good add on if you intend to keep a minimal system.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From foxvideo at wincom.net  Wed Mar 20 07:06:12 2002
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: Keyboard conversions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320080235.00b1eab8@mail.wincom.net>

At 10:28 PM 19/03/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>With all this talk about making a LK201 work on a PC or vice versa - and
>this moderately-broken Amiga keyboard I have laying around - I was
>wondering if anyone could give me some info so I design/build an adaptor
>to make a PC (perhaps mac or some other KB) work with an Amiga?  With the
>lack of a surplus of Amiga kb's on the eBay market, I was thinking it
>might be a worthwhile hack.
>
>Mostly I guess I just want a source of info about the Amiga keyboard (this
>is for an A2000 btw) so I could think about how I might design it.
>
>Thanks
>
>-- Pat

         What is the problem with the Amiga keyboard?  I repaired one of 
mine (dead enter key) with parts from a Commadore  64.

         Cheers

                 Charlie Fox



                                 Charles E. Fox Video Production
                                         793 Argyle Rd.
                                 Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8
                                 519-254-4991    foxvideo@wincom.net
                                 Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten"
                                         at http://chasfoxvideo.com



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 20 07:09:30 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C97A36E.DF30ED66@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3C98981A.8935.487359C3@localhost>

> > >Well, if you're going to make an external keyboard, LCD interface,
> > >digitiser, etc, then you're going to have to make some boards as well.
> > >Might as well just stick the Z80 on one of them.

> >    That's true but I think they just enjoy seeing who can hang the most
> > stuff off of a ZX81. Sort of like the guys that see who can put the biggest
> > engine inside a Chevy Vega!

> I kind of thought the ZX81 was a VW Bug :)

Which reminds me that the VW is still one real neat tuning
object. Possibly the closest to US Hot Rods we have (German
Law is a bit different. There is no 'if the car is older than
xxx no new regulations apply and you may do whatever you want'
regulation. If an old car is not registered for some time you
eiter bring him bac in 100% original state to reactivate the
licence, or if you modify it, it has to comply to all actual
regulations). Usualy all the muscle cars are build with actual
cars. but a small but still vivid scene of Beetle geeks is
alive - just two weeks ago I saw a brand new redone 1950 VW
(two rear window version) which _almost_ looked like original.
Just a bit lower - looking inside everything looked regular,
except the racing seets ... and asking the owner I learnd that
it had a complete new frame with a racing break system and a
230 horese power turbo charged 2.5 liter engine ... good for
going long distance at 140+ mp/h (230 km/h) on the Autobahn.

Sounds like a ZX81 running a web browser and TCP/IP.

:))

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From rhb57 at vol.com  Wed Mar 20 07:12:57 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:34 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cfde$a7d92600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

Right on the money. The same II,IID,III and IIID trays also fit other brands
besides the Apples - IIRC the Oki 400 and 800.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
=> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 1:13 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=>
=>
=> The thing to keep in mind, however, is that the ones that fit
=> the II/IID and
=> III/IIID will fit the comparable apple-compatibles, but they
=> won't fit the IIP
=> or IIIP, unless memory totally fails me.
=>
=> Dick
=> ----- Original Message -----
=> From: "Russ Blakeman" 
=> To: 
=> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:24 PM
=> Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=>
=>
=> > If I come across a bunch of legal sized trays I'll let you
=> (and the group)
=> > know. They fit the II, IID, III and IIID so there's plenty of
=> need for them
=> > out there.
=> >
=> > => -----Original Message-----
=> > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris
=> > => Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:13 PM
=> > => To: Classic Computers
=> > => Subject: RE: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> > => >crap this should have gone direct to Chris.
=> > =>
=> > => Crap... and my reply should have gone straight to you. (I
=> didn't even
=> > => look that it was actually addressed to the group)
=> > =>
=> > => Sorry again!
=> > =>
=> > => -chris
=> > =>
=> > => 
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> >
=> >
=>
=>


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Wed Mar 20 07:28:11 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Info wanted on old Memorex model 214 HD
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A82B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Hi,
>   Does anyone here have any info on this old hard
> drive I bought at "Weird Stuff"?
> 
>   It's a Memorex model 214 - weighs about 50 lbs, has
> 4 6" platters I think.
> 
>   I'm interested in it origin, use, size, etc.

Dunno, but it's pretty cool. Any more available?

-dq

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Wed Mar 20 07:34:17 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A82C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

>   Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
> hands?

On entry, the PDP-11 signals a bank of ultraviolet
lights that illuminate whatever bacteria are hanging
around ont he various fixtures...

-dq

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 20 08:50:18 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3C98AFBA.6002.48CF9F97@localhost>

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
> > Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > > toilet seat.
> > That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> > almost empty ?

>   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to one serial port on
> a PDP-11 running a backround job counting total turns, comparing against
> approximate turns-to-roll-exhaustion, and triggering (thru another serial
> port) an appropriate alarm, or perhaps printing out a TP-LO Warning.

Isn't using a PDP-11 as perhipheral processor for a ZX81
a bit out of scope ? 

>   Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
> hands?

what about a water flow sensor which tells the amout of
water used at the sink, and a soap dispenser switch to
see if soap has been at least requested ? So if one doesn't
use enough water, or over a way to short time, or didn't
use soap at all, or triggered the soapswitch without using
water afterwards, we just keep the door locked. Maybe with
an additional voice output according to the situation (*).

Gruss
H.

(*) Ach ja: if the TU (toilet user) had tried to open the
door, a message like 'The sanitary sywstem of this UDP
facility would apreciate if you also cleanthe door handle'
should be added.


--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From pat at purdueriots.com  Wed Mar 20 08:57:19 2002
From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Keyboard conversions
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320080235.00b1eab8@mail.wincom.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Charles E. Fox wrote:

> At 10:28 PM 19/03/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >With all this talk about making a LK201 work on a PC or vice versa - and
> >this moderately-broken Amiga keyboard I have laying around - I was
> >wondering if anyone could give me some info so I design/build an adaptor
> >to make a PC (perhaps mac or some other KB) work with an Amiga?  With the
> >lack of a surplus of Amiga kb's on the eBay market, I was thinking it
> >might be a worthwhile hack.
> >
> >Mostly I guess I just want a source of info about the Amiga keyboard (this
> >is for an A2000 btw) so I could think about how I might design it.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >-- Pat
>
>          What is the problem with the Amiga keyboard?  I repaired one of
> mine (dead enter key) with parts from a Commadore  64.

Uh, a couple of the keycaps are 'missing' and one of the keys has
superglue (from a highschool attempt to re-attach the key-cap) on the
board contacts for the key.  It's nothing terribly critical - the ~, ctrl,
both alt, and left-amiga keys - but I prefer the feel of some other
keyboards, and would like to have a 'spare' laying around.

-- Pat


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Wed Mar 20 09:07:27 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: What's Need to Connect TS05 to PDP 11/23
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A832@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > 
> > I know there is going to be a catch to this...
> > 
> > But which interface card will I need to add a TS05
> > (Cipher streamer 9-track drive) to a PDP-11/23?
> 
> Why a catch? - The 11/23 has a low-order digit of three, which
> identifies it as a Q-bus machine. So you need a subsystem called TSV05
> (as opposed to the UNIBUS TSU05), and the controller is M7196. Takes
> 6.5A @ 5V, counts as 3 AC / 1 DC loads on the logic lines.

Why would I suspect a catch? From the conversations I follow
here regarding PDP-11s, it always seems to "depend"...

You should know this: I have *never* *ever* used a PDP-11.
I did use a DEC-10 extensively (including a little MACRO-10)
and a Harris 1200 (PDP-8 clone).
 
> > Like "which version of the 11/23", and there's an
> > 11/23+ too, isn't there?
> 
> Right, but shouldn't matter for this purpose. Sure, the TSV05 is a DMA
> controller, so the number of address lines in the system is a concern,
> but, the /23 has at least 18 address bits, and that should do. (See the
> addresses from the manual: these show 6 octal digits = 18 bits!)
> 
> Ah, well, there is an "extended features switch" (pack at E58, position
> 9). This switch must be "on" for 22-bit addressing (and for streaming in
> 100ips mode, IIRC). Maybe this is the catch you're looking for?
> 
> I have not yet installed mine, however... - will be in a /23-PLUS.
> Currently, I only have a TSU05 available (and am still looking for the
> switch desingations...).

Ok, so I need to locate a TSV05 if the box by some chance doesn't
already have one (not in my posession yet).

-dq

From flo at uk.thalesgroup.com  Wed Mar 20 09:24:23 2002
From: flo at uk.thalesgroup.com (Paul Williams)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Digital DEClaser 1100
Message-ID: <3C98A9A7.7EC7A670@uk.thalesgroup.com>

Ian King wrote:

> Does anybody have a Digital DEClaser 1100 manual -  I need one for
> a machine I have recently obtained.

I found the Installation Guide and Operator's Guide for this on a
colleague's desk at the weekend. I will scan it if no one offers the URL
of an existing copy.

Regards,
Paul

From aek at spies.com  Wed Mar 20 09:39:23 2002
From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Info wanted on old Memorex model 214 HD
Message-ID: <200203201539.HAA22195@spies.com>


> Does anyone here have any info on this old hard 
> drive I bought at "Weird Stuff"? 

It's a rebadged Fujitsu. AED used them in the WINC 08 product.
>From memory, it's 20mb.


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 09:41:40 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <15512.23154.748260.884099@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> On March 20, Doc wrote:

> >
> > Dave,
> >   Go stand in the corner.
>
>   Oh c'mon Doc.  Surely I didn't get you with THAT one. ;)

  It was just so *lame*!

	Doc


From dtwright at uiuc.edu  Wed Mar 20 09:46:14 2002
From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com>
References: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org> <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <20020320154611.GD1845@uiuc.edu>

Er, this might be a little late...but...

There's been one really good suggestion made that everyone seems to have
glossed over: put something like "[OL]" before any message coming from an
un-subscribed address.  That's all!  You can make your e-mail client filter
that!  you can make procmail filter that!  If any off-list message was simply
MARKED, then each of us could deal with off-list stuff in our own way!

Personally, I don't care about it.  Everything from classiccmp gets sent into
it's own little mailbox by procmail anyway -- hence why I'm replying to this
NOW, when I saw 300 new messages after the weekend I didn't have time to do
anything with it :)  however, putting a marker like this on any off-list
message requires little work, avoids the possible problem of losing equipment
because someone who's about to thrown out that pdp-11 can't post a message,
and lets each list subscriber deal with such mail in any way he or she
wishes...

I'd also like to say that I think Jay does a fine job managing the list and
I'm grateful to him for doing so.  Without him we wouldn't have a list, and
that's worse then a little spam, isn't it?

Roger Merchberger said:
> Rumor has it that Doc may have mentioned these words:
> 
> >  As far as Jay's performance running the list, I'd like to make two
> >observations -
> >
> >  Unrestricted SPAM has been a very live topic for six weeks.  I would
> >normally expect the List Operator to at least comment on feasibility of
> >the various proposals, and on the steps involved for the proposed
> >volunteers.  I didn't see anything at all.
> 
> Not to sound like a prick, but you mightn't have looked all that hard... He
> emailed the list just prior to 1 Mar 2002 (that's when I received a reply
> from his request) asking for advice about what to do WRT spam & keeping the
> list more open for nonsubscribers...
> 
> >  Today is March 15, 2002.  The latest post available from the online
> >archives is dated November 30, 2001.  That's a hell of a lag.
> 
> He might have one hell of a job... Lord knows I'm a wee bit behind in my
> 'hobby-based duties' WRT my listserver & other things. At least it's up &
> running - methinks we should count our blessings to have a decent uptime,
> nice, hi-bandwidth list to discuss our ancient friends *for Free*...
> 
> Jay, I know how thankless this 'free labor' can be, so lemme be the first
> person to make it a little less thankless:
> 
> Thank You! :-)
> 
> And always, if there's anything I can do to help, just holler. I'll do
> anything I can to help.
> 
> Laterz,
> Roger "Merch" Merchberger
> --
> Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
> Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
> 
> If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
> disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
- Dan Wright
(dtwright@uiuc.edu)
(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright)

-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [-
``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread,
  For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.''
       Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Wed Mar 20 09:49:17 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: TI 980B picture
References: <20020319214353.18356.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C98AF7D.3040302@dragonsweb.org>

Ethan Dicks wrote:


> As for the TI 980B, with the exception of the very scary, undocumented,
> rack-mounted 2-square-feet of prototyping board that was cabled into
> the DMA slot, it looks very clean.  I have no idea what this peripheal
> was supposed to do, and since it was stored at a high-school electronics
> shop (which is being cleaned out this year which is how I got the TI
> in the first place), it's covered in bent pins and broken wires.  I also
> know there are several missing chips (they came in the bottom of the
> box - some jumper blocks with jumper resistors and a few 74181s, at least).
> I doubt I'll ever be able to discern what this homemade peripheral ever
> did, so I expect to photograph it and recycle the chips into other
> classic machines (there's some Motorola RTL chips on there!  Perfect
> for my attempts to replicate a DEC W706/W707 if I ever get that far).
> 
> If I can get my camera happy making closeups, I'll see about adding some
> pictures of the CPU and memory boards to the pic of the front panel.
> 

You've got me curious now. A comprehensive set of shots are definitely 
in order. I'm also getting a heavy vibe that you shouldn't go plundering 
the board without determining what it does, who built it, and why, 
first. Just a feeling that whoever built it may be wondering what became 
of it and might be willing to underwrite a lot of component purchases in 
order to reacquire it.

It's always a possibility with a one-off or prototype like this. Dunno 
why I'm getting such a strong feeling in this case, but I am. Maybe I'm 
wrong, but I wouldn't go stripping that board just yet, if it were me.

Thanks for the update and the pic.

jbdigriz




From mrbill at mrbill.net  Wed Mar 20 09:54:36 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Anybody need Indigo R3000 parts?
Message-ID: <20020320155436.GU15328@mrbill.net>

Anybody need Indigo R3000 parts?  I've got four or five machines with
system board and LG1 framebuffer and at least one SCSI drive sled
each, and at least 16meg RAM.  No keyboards or mice tho.

If you're in the Austin area and ask nicely, I may just give you one 
if you come pick it up and ask nicely.. If you're anywhere else, I'd 
prefer small trades to make it worth boxing up and hauling to the postal 
place (and you pay shipping, of course).

Just trying to clean out the garage...

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Wed Mar 20 10:07:04 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: TI 980B picture
References: <20020319214353.18356.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> <3C98AF7D.3040302@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <3C98B3A8.4000604@dragonsweb.org>

James B. DiGriz wrote:


> It's always a possibility with a one-off or prototype like this. Dunno 
> why I'm getting such a strong feeling in this case, but I am. Maybe I'm 
> wrong, but I wouldn't go stripping that board just yet, if it were me.
> 

Dammit, that should have been private. Didn't want to put you on the 
spot, Ethan. Sorry.

jbdigriz




From emu at ecubics.com  Wed Mar 20 10:13:35 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: offline drives: Re: MVII Diags Chapter 2
References:  <3C977304.44CE092B@ecubics.com> <3C9792C3.7030602@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3C979E93.8130ACC1@ecubics.com> <3C97BD44.7040309@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C98B52F.40A583FD@ecubics.com>

Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> I think I do (I can never memorize the BA-xxx numbers.) Now,
> what do you mean by "that's where your surprize would be" and
> the smile? Do you know the secret to my problem?
> 

It is twisted. It is not like you think it should be. 
(coming flat from the drives & then to the controller). And if it is
connect the wrong way, suddenly your one RD54 shows up as many RD53, 
or RD51, ...

cheers

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 20 10:14:33 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Londinium
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C6A98DE.1095.A0738DC@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 13, 2 04:48:30 pm
Message-ID: <3C98C379.25568.491CC4BC@localhost>


> The London Science Museum is open every day (AFAIK), and is now free for 
> everyone to go in.

That's exactly what I did. Especialy since my returndate changed to
Monday a week later.

> They've got a few computers on display (alas nothing 
> actually powered up), including an Apple 1, a Cray, the Pilot Ace, an 
> HP65 (and the CPU hybrid from one with the can removed), and so on.

I couldn't find an A1, but there was a nice Apple ][ (no plus)
on display. It's been my first visit to the museum, and I'm
somewhat thorn apart. On one hand some real nice artefacts and
great explanations (Shure, brit-centric, but who expects different).
But then again some 'new' parts which i'd rather call advertisement
areas. Wasing an awfull lot of space for colourfull nothing. Also
(qualified) maintainance of existing areas seams to be a problem.

> They also have a nice collection of mechanical clocks, which fortuantely 
> hasn't been modernised (read : ruined). No silly lighting effects, no 
> stupid layouts. Just the clocks, running, with descriptios. What a museum 
> should be.


Well, it is by far smaler than the Deutsches Museum, but at least
in the 'old' parts you feel the same attitude of 'good old' education.
A place where you can go an study the material to _learn_ about.

Anyway
Gruss
H.

P.S.: Waht I said about the 'new parts', exactly the same is true
for the Deutsches Museum colourfull nothing ... and they want to
'redesign and enhance' the Transportation part ... Which means
less displays with less information and less background but way
more emphasis on architectural gimmicks like 'creative walkways'


--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From zmerch at 30below.com  Wed Mar 20 10:21:54 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
In-Reply-To: <20020320154611.GD1845@uiuc.edu>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com>
 <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org>
 <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020320112154.01713950@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Dan Wright may have mentioned these words:
>Er, this might be a little late...but...
>
>There's been one really good suggestion made that everyone seems to have
>glossed over: put something like "[OL]" before any message coming from an
>un-subscribed address.  That's all!  You can make your e-mail client filter
>that!  you can make procmail filter that!  If any off-list message was simply
>MARKED, then each of us could deal with off-list stuff in our own way!
>
>Personally, I don't care about it.  Everything from classiccmp gets sent into
>it's own little mailbox by procmail anyway -- hence why I'm replying to this
>NOW, when I saw 300 new messages after the weekend I didn't have time to do
>anything with it :)  however, putting a marker like this on any off-list
>message requires little work, avoids the possible problem of losing equipment
>because someone who's about to thrown out that pdp-11 can't post a message,
>and lets each list subscriber deal with such mail in any way he or she
>wishes...

One small problem with that: If the person's not subscribed to the list,
how do they know they're supposed to put an '[OL]' in the subject? [[ That,
and then the "new flame wars" - 42 list members flaming some poor soul
because he honestly forgot to type [OL] in the subject before he hit
"Send"... ]]

unless - if the list manager software that Jay uses has the ability to
differentiate between on-list & off-list posters, maybe a small
configuration change could be made to prepend an '[OL] ' to the subject
coming in from any off-list email address automatically? That might work...
but to me that would only be a solution if it doesn't cause any extra work
for Jay.

>I'd also like to say that I think Jay does a fine job managing the list and
>I'm grateful to him for doing so.  Without him we wouldn't have a list, and
>that's worse then a little spam, isn't it?

Most definately.

Just my $0.000000002 worth, and it ain't worth that...
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From tom at sba.miami.edu  Wed Mar 20 10:23:32 2002
From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Disabling DSD-440 bootstrap
Message-ID: 


	Does anyone know what jumpers to change to disable the bootstrap
on the DSD-440 controller?  Actually, if anyone has the rest of the jumper
settings, I would also like to know for reference, since I don't have any
docs for it.

Thanks,

Tom


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Mar 20 10:27:03 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Anybody need Indigo R3000 parts?
References: <20020320155436.GU15328@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <00ba01c1d02c$12879b60$408c70d8@default>

I could drive over from Houston this weekend if you have any left?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradford" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: Anybody need Indigo R3000 parts?


> Anybody need Indigo R3000 parts?  I've got four or five machines with
> system board and LG1 framebuffer and at least one SCSI drive sled
> each, and at least 16meg RAM.  No keyboards or mice tho.
>
> If you're in the Austin area and ask nicely, I may just give you one
> if you come pick it up and ask nicely.. If you're anywhere else, I'd
> prefer small trades to make it worth boxing up and hauling to the
postal
> place (and you pay shipping, of course).
>
> Just trying to clean out the garage...
>
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill Bradford
> mrbill@mrbill.net
> Austin, TX
>


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Mar 20 10:35:27 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Londinium
References: <3C6A98DE.1095.A0738DC@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 13, 2 04:48:30 pm <3C98C379.25568.491CC4BC@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C98BA4F.3B32C0A1@rain.org>



Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > The London Science Museum is open every day (AFAIK), and is now free for
> > everyone to go in.
> 
> I couldn't find an A1, but there was a nice Apple ][ (no plus)
> on display. It's been my first visit to the museum, and I'm
> somewhat thorn apart. On one hand some real nice artefacts and
> great explanations (Shure, brit-centric, but who expects different).
> But then again some 'new' parts which i'd rather call advertisement
> areas. Wasing an awfull lot of space for colourfull nothing. Also
> (qualified) maintainance of existing areas seams to be a problem.

As I stop and think about it, selling display areas for advertising new
stuff would be one source of revenue to help with keeping such a museum
open. Sounds like a good idea to me!!!

From jwest at classiccmp.org  Wed Mar 20 10:53:43 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>

1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
list settings....

A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
straightforward. Comments?

2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org THAT is a project I have fallen
far behind in. When I moved the list from the old ISP to the new ISP (me in
both cases, long story)... something broke in getting emails from the list
to the archive mechanism. I noticed this maybe a month ago, and when I
started digging into it I realized it was time for a change - the archives
there are not searchable and that just isn't acceptable. So - I have been
looking for software to HTML'ize the mailing list that allows searching as
well. I really need suggestions here as my initial searches came up less
than satisfactory. The archives are currently using hypermail. My criteria
is something that is FreeBSD and Sendmail friendly, and allows searching the
archives OR viewing them by thread. I don't mind if the emails need to get
stored in a database, but if they do, mysql must be the database used (picky
aren't I). The only package I found had statements all over it to the effect
that "this package will no longer be supported by the author". I did notice
the list archives for netsaint that are stored at sourceforge look REALLY
nice, and do allow searching, but didn't see a good way to follow threads. I
would greatly appreciate it if anyone can point me to mail list archives
that work well (for the user) and look nice (or to software for unix that
does the same). Please send these suggestions to me off-list at
jwest@classiccmp.org

3) This isn't really important - just random "what if" thinking out loud - I
was considering moving the mailing list and mail list archives off to a
separate machine that does nothing but classiccmp. This is being considered
for logistics reasons, not for horsepower/load  reasons. I have all the
spare components (cpu, memory, drives, etc) but no spare rackmount chassis.
I can just order a rackmount chassis under my company which I'm perfectly
willing to do, but was wondering if anyone had a rackmount chassis just
laying around that they didn't need and would donate to the cause. The key
criteria - EIA units (space!). I would strongly prefer a 1U (1 EIA unit, or
1.75 inches) tall unit. We charge on rackspace by the inch, so I want the
machine to take as little space as possible so I can obviously sell the
rackspace to other paying customers. I would consider a 2U (2.5 inches) tall
unit (which I already have spare) as a fall-back plan, but definitely
nothing taller than that. Anyone have a spare laying around? If so, please
contact me OFF LIST at jwest@classiccmp.org

Regards,

Jay West





From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Wed Mar 20 11:14:31 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: What's Need to Connect TS05 to PDP 11/23
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A832@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3C98C377.FFBEF30F@Vishay.com>

Oh, ...

Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> You should know this: I have *never* *ever* used a PDP-11.
> I did use a DEC-10 extensively (including a little MACRO-10)
> and a Harris 1200 (PDP-8 clone).

OK, so there's at least one thing I have touched, while others still
have to learn about it. ;-) - On the other hand, I've never personally
met a PDP-8 :-(

What operating system are you going to run? - RT-11 should auto-detect
new hardware and load the proper handlers, while RSX will require you to
do a SYSGEN before a new device can be used - certainly not the easiest
part to start with. This may indeed be another catch...

Unix? - That's possible on so many boxes, why do it on a PDP-11 that can
do things other boxes won't? IAS? MUMPS? RSTS/E? SHARE? TSX? - All
possible, but perhaps not easy to find, and some of these will also take
some configuration work before you can use the system.

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 11:18:37 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Handmade TI980A peripheral (was Re: TI 980B picture)
In-Reply-To: <3C98AF7D.3040302@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <20020320171837.6169.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "James B. DiGriz"  wrote:
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
 
> > As for the TI 980B, with the exception of the very scary, undocumented,
> > rack-mounted 2-square-feet of prototyping board that was cabled into
> > the DMA slot, it looks very clean.  I have no idea what this peripheal
> > was supposed to do.... it's covered in bent pins and broken wires...
> > ...several missing chips

> You've got me curious now. A comprehensive set of shots are definitely 
> in order. I'm also getting a heavy vibe that you shouldn't go plundering 
> the board without determining what it does, who built it, and why, 
> first. Just a feeling that whoever built it may be wondering what became 
> of it and might be willing to underwrite a lot of component purchases in 
> order to reacquire it.

I have no solid knowledge of where this came from, but from the
construction
techniques, it's a prototype, not a custom-engineered one-off.  The 
connectors are sawed in half for the (original equipment) I/O card,
and the DMA connector cable adapter is a sawed-up extender card from a
different bus with stripped ribbon cable ends soldered to the traces
(several of which have seperated due to poor technique).  I have at least
three components which have fallen out and several broken wires, making
a full schematic impossible.  It might be able to document enough to deduce
what it does, but not precisely how it does it.

The 980 was used as a process controller, AFAIK.  This is probably some
custom interface to some data collection equipment and perhaps some
actuators for use in the school electronics lab.  I doubt this came out
of TI, given how it's put together.

> It's always a possibility with a one-off or prototype like this. Dunno 
> why I'm getting such a strong feeling in this case, but I am. Maybe I'm 
> wrong, but I wouldn't go stripping that board just yet, if it were me.

I'm not doing anything right away.  In any case, I wouldn't pull (more)
chips without a map.  The only reason why I'd consider stripping it is
because the chips are c. 1969-1975 and the perfect thing for fixing
PDP-8s, etc.  7474s, not 74LS74s (not that most stuff is critical, 
but it's nice to have contemporary replacements).  The guy who gave me
the 980 in the first place has no interest in any RTL chips he finds.
He wants to keep the TTL for his students, but I may try to buy him
tubes of modern chips and trade him for the older ones.  We'll have to
see.  He at least promised me the RTL.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From RCini at congressfinancial.com  Wed Mar 20 11:19:33 2002
From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A3FF@MAIL10>

Jay:

	I like the HTML filter, although the number of HTML posts is pretty
small.

	The only thing I ask you to consider is somehow obfuscating member's
email addresses in the searchable article database. I've noticed spam in two
email accounts that I've previously used when posting to the list. These two
accounts I don't use in any Web-related way that could be clipped by a
spambot (like posting in newgroups). That's why my MSN account is mostly
spam but my work account and Optimum Online account are virtually spam-free.

	Obviously this makes it hard for off-listers to contact individual
members relating specifically to that post. Comments?

Rich

==========================
Richard A. Cini, Jr.
Congress Financial Corporation
1133 Avenue of the Americas
30th Floor
New York, NY 10036
(212) 545-4402
(212) 840-6259 (facsimile)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:54 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis


1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
list settings....

A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
straightforward. Comments?

2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org THAT is a project I have fallen
far behind in. When I moved the list from the old ISP to the new ISP (me in
both cases, long story)... something broke in getting emails from the list
to the archive mechanism. I noticed this maybe a month ago, and when I
started digging into it I realized it was time for a change - the archives
there are not searchable and that just isn't acceptable. So - I have been
looking for software to HTML'ize the mailing list that allows searching as
well. I really need suggestions here as my initial searches came up less
than satisfactory. The archives are currently using hypermail. My criteria
is something that is FreeBSD and Sendmail friendly, and allows searching the
archives OR viewing them by thread. I don't mind if the emails need to get
stored in a database, but if they do, mysql must be the database used (picky
aren't I). The only package I found had statements all over it to the effect
that "this package will no longer be supported by the author". I did notice
the list archives for netsaint that are stored at sourceforge look REALLY
nice, and do allow searching, but didn't see a good way to follow threads. I
would greatly appreciate it if anyone can point me to mail list archives
that work well (for the user) and look nice (or to software for unix that
does the same). Please send these suggestions to me off-list at
jwest@classiccmp.org

3) This isn't really important - just random "what if" thinking out loud - I
was considering moving the mailing list and mail list archives off to a
separate machine that does nothing but classiccmp. This is being considered
for logistics reasons, not for horsepower/load  reasons. I have all the
spare components (cpu, memory, drives, etc) but no spare rackmount chassis.
I can just order a rackmount chassis under my company which I'm perfectly
willing to do, but was wondering if anyone had a rackmount chassis just
laying around that they didn't need and would donate to the cause. The key
criteria - EIA units (space!). I would strongly prefer a 1U (1 EIA unit, or
1.75 inches) tall unit. We charge on rackspace by the inch, so I want the
machine to take as little space as possible so I can obviously sell the
rackspace to other paying customers. I would consider a 2U (2.5 inches) tall
unit (which I already have spare) as a fall-back plan, but definitely
nothing taller than that. Anyone have a spare laying around? If so, please
contact me OFF LIST at jwest@classiccmp.org

Regards,

Jay West




From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 20 11:29:06 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <3C98C6E2.87832740@jetnet.ab.ca>

Jay West wrote:

> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

No I would filter the email -- a few people may for what ever reason may
be able
to only send in HTML.  

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 11:34:01 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <3C98AFBA.6002.48CF9F97@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320173401.36519.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hans Franke  wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
> > > Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including
> > > > the toilet seat.
> > > That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> > > almost empty ?
> 
> >   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to... a PDP-11...
> > counting total turns, comparing against approximate turns-to-roll-
> > exhaustion, and...printing out a TP-LO Warning.

Or an optical sensor mounted parallel the axis of the roll that would
trigger when the diameter was too low.  How about a color-based sensor
that could detect the difference between the cardboard core and the
paper?  What about a shaft encoder that measures angular velocity...
for low velocities, there must be lots of paper (when the roll is full,
3 squares per second produces, say, 1/60 RPM; but when the roll is nearly
empty, the same linear pull rate produces 1/20 RPM - kinda the opposite
of linear bit-density calculations on variable zone recording floppies
and hard disks).  There's probably a way to embed an inertial sensor in
the holder to measure the force it takes to start the roll moving... the
possibilities are endless!

> Isn't using a PDP-11 as perhipheral processor for a ZX81
> a bit out of scope ? 

Nah!  You shoulda been at Lucent when a 3rd-shift factory worker rebooted
the $500,000 Fujitsu SMT part placer so he could surf the web on the
attached 486 that ran a windows app to display the parts and their
orientation.  A full production line halted so a blue-collar guy could
go check out EPSN.  No kidding.  But it was a union shop - all he got
was a written reprimand.

The point is, who says the peripherals have to be less powerful than the
core?  Our original COMBOARD was an 8MHz 68000 sitting on the Unibus
of a PDP-11 - the serial card had more horsepower than the machine it
was mounted in (one way it got used: we had our own dataproducts port
so we could spool jobs from the IBM right to a printer, relieving the
burden on the, typically, RSTS print spooler).
 
-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 11:49:17 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <20020320174917.28386.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jay West  wrote:
> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the
> mailing
> list settings....
> 
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content.

In theory, I support this, but if it's possible to filter them down
to their textual content on the way through, that might be good, also.
I know that some people (very few) have technological impediments that
force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).

One thing that might be nice, given my own recent battles with spam,
is to search for certain constructions in HTML messages and give them
"extra attention" - I've seen some spam go by with XBODY/BODY, not
BODY/BODY tags, for example.  It seems to mess with my ability to
forward the contents to spamcop and the FTC.  I have to view source
and cut and paste.  :-P  Also, I've seen this use of "_blank" in
the first tag of the message that also goes hand-in-hand with messages
that confuse my browser when I want to do anything other than view 
the message.   I don't think these are simple clever tricks; from what
I've seen in the way they are treated by my browser, they are intentional
abuses of loopholes in HTML implementation to provide better spread
of the spam.

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that...

I take it the "[OL]" would be automatically inserted by some filter
that noticed that the sender was _not_ on the subscription list, yes?
I don't see how non-subscribers would know to put the "[OL]" there
before posting.  If it's put there by you for our benefit, then I
can see the use of it - we can easily filter for it and either discard
it straight out, or shunt it to a kill buffer for inspection.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From fernande at internet1.net  Wed Mar 20 11:50:05 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: List Management; Was Big African Grifters
References: <3C925907.2040508@dragonsweb.org> <3.0.1.32.20020316113250.011effe8@mail.30below.com> <20020320154611.GD1845@uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3C98CBCD.EAA682DA@internet1.net>

Good Idea!  I used to be on a list that did that, although, I think the
messages had to be "approved" by the list Admin.  I woul think Jay could
set it up so that he didn't have to approve them.

Jay, what do you think?

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Dan Wright wrote:
> 
> Er, this might be a little late...but...
> 
> There's been one really good suggestion made that everyone seems to have
> glossed over: put something like "[OL]" before any message coming from an
> un-subscribed address.  That's all!  You can make your e-mail client filter
> that!  you can make procmail filter that!  If any off-list message was simply
> MARKED, then each of us could deal with off-list stuff in our own way!

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 11:54:25 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <20020320173401.36519.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

> > > > That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> > > > almost empty ?
> > 
> > >   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to... a PDP-11...
> Or an optical sensor mounted parallel the axis of the roll that would
> trigger when the diameter was too low.  How about a color-based sensor
> that could detect the difference between the cardboard core and the
> paper?  What about a shaft encoder that measures angular velocity...

Or thermal sensors and heaters - apply a quick burst of heat outside the
roll, and see how quickly the spindle sensor responds to measure amount of
insulation.
Or only use rolls with factory installed sensors
Or measure diameter of roll with optical sensors or microswitch from the
backside.
Or build a dispenser, and have it maintain an inventory count
Or build a dispenser with a long paper path, and just have a microswitch
paper-out sensor a few feet from the output of the dispenser.


> > Isn't using a PDP-11 as perhipheral processor for a ZX81
> > a bit out of scope ? 

Why?  Isn't a PDP-11 adequate?


30 years ago, at GSFC, we used a 360 for I/O for a 7094.

> The point is, who says the peripherals have to be less powerful than the
> core?  
When the original LaserWriter came out, it was substantially more powerful
than the current Macs.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From fernande at internet1.net  Wed Mar 20 11:54:33 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <3C98CCD9.6844FC03@internet1.net>



Jay West wrote:
> 
> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
> list settings....
> 
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

Sounds good!

> 
> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

I like that idea.  Someone else mentioned that in another email, too.

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 11:59:01 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146778E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Jay West
> 
> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the
> mailing
> list settings....
> 
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content...
> 
	Sounds good to me.

	I think a Reply To Sender telling them why it got rejected might be
a good thing. Then we might not piss off some 70 year old guy trying to give
his F-1 a good home...

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one
> I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?
> 
	Another good idea.

	Can't the system compare the From or ReplyTo field against the
subscriber list, and take action from there?
	People like me might need some assistance here. You see, my _actual_
e-mail address is DAW@yalespress3.unipress.yale.edu. Yale ITS just provides
an alias for me which is David.Woyciesjes@Yale.edu. Both work fine, and I
think both are in the headers of my messages. Confuses some other automated
mail systems...

> 2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org THAT is a project I have fallen
> far behind in. When I moved the list from the old ISP to the new ISP (me
> in
> both cases, long story)...
> 
	Understandable.

> 3) This isn't really important - just random "what if" thinking out loud -
> I
> was considering moving the mailing list and mail list archives off to a
> separate machine that does nothing but classiccmp. This is being
> considered
> for logistics reasons, not for horsepower/load  reasons.....
> 
	Makes sense. Sorry I can't help with a case tho...

Many thanks to you and for your effort here...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 12:04:40 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146778F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> ----------
> From: 	Cini, Richard
> 
> Jay:
> 
> 	I like the HTML filter, although the number of HTML posts is pretty
> small.
> 
> 	The only thing I ask you to consider is somehow obfuscating member's
> email addresses in the searchable article database. I've noticed spam in
> two
> email accounts that I've previously used when posting to the list. These
> two
> accounts I don't use in any Web-related way that could be clipped by a
> spambot (like posting in newgroups). That's why my MSN account is mostly
> spam but my work account and Optimum Online account are virtually
> spam-free.
> 
> 	Obviously this makes it hard for off-listers to contact individual
> members relating specifically to that post. Comments?
> 
> Rich
> 
> ==========================
> 
	They can always send a message to the list itself to find someone.

Jay - Is there a reason that the Reply To All field only goes back to the
list?

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 12:11:02 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467790@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Ethan Dicks
> 
> --- Hans Franke  wrote:
> > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
> > > > Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > > > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including
> > > > > the toilet seat.
> > > > That is easy -- a micro switch ... now how do you tell if the ROLL
> is
> > > > almost empty ?
> > 
> > >   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to... a PDP-11...
> > > counting total turns, comparing against approximate turns-to-roll-
> > > exhaustion, and...printing out a TP-LO Warning.
> 
> Or an optical sensor mounted parallel the axis of the roll that would
> trigger when the diameter was too low.  How about a color-based sensor
> that could detect the difference between the cardboard core and the
> paper?  What about a shaft encoder that measures angular velocity...
> for low velocities, there must be lots of paper (when the roll is full,
> 3 squares per second produces, say, 1/60 RPM; but when the roll is nearly
> empty, the same linear pull rate produces 1/20 RPM - kinda the opposite
> of linear bit-density calculations on variable zone recording floppies
> and hard disks).  There's probably a way to embed an inertial sensor in
> the holder to measure the force it takes to start the roll moving... the
> possibilities are endless!
> 
-	How about a TP holder that measures the weight? Or a spring loaded
arm, that contacts a switch when it get near empty. With a wheel at the end,
you can also have it provide drag on the roll, for spin control. Then it
won't be so easy for my cat to run all around the house with it...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 20 12:13:14 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d03a$e7726900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I've noticed that comments made years back, and more recently, on the list,
appear in various searches I've run on GOOGLE.  This certainly is a place
where the email addresses of the list and the parties appearing in the post
are accessible.  What can be done to put a stop to that?

Also, the fact that these items come up in searches certainly makes it
important that the subject line be the actual subject of the post.  There have
been plenty of posts with a title of (just as an example) "MV2000 PSU" that
are 20 posts down the road from the last even remotely related item.  If every
post to the list with that title produces a hit for the search engines looking
for MV2000, I'd bet they get a lot of spambot fodder from that.  What's more,
if you want your posts to be locatable by the search engines, it certainly
doesn't help that the discussion topic wanders under a completely irrelvant
title.

Perhaps the solution would be to purge the email addresses before items are
posted to the list.

The HTML filter would certainly be a good idea.  Once people realize their
HTML posts don't find their way to distribution, they'll take the 1 second to
turn that feature off.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:53 AM
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis


> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
> list settings....
>
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?
>
> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?
>
> 2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org THAT is a project I have fallen
> far behind in. When I moved the list from the old ISP to the new ISP (me in
> both cases, long story)... something broke in getting emails from the list
> to the archive mechanism. I noticed this maybe a month ago, and when I
> started digging into it I realized it was time for a change - the archives
> there are not searchable and that just isn't acceptable. So - I have been
> looking for software to HTML'ize the mailing list that allows searching as
> well. I really need suggestions here as my initial searches came up less
> than satisfactory. The archives are currently using hypermail. My criteria
> is something that is FreeBSD and Sendmail friendly, and allows searching the
> archives OR viewing them by thread. I don't mind if the emails need to get
> stored in a database, but if they do, mysql must be the database used (picky
> aren't I). The only package I found had statements all over it to the effect
> that "this package will no longer be supported by the author". I did notice
> the list archives for netsaint that are stored at sourceforge look REALLY
> nice, and do allow searching, but didn't see a good way to follow threads. I
> would greatly appreciate it if anyone can point me to mail list archives
> that work well (for the user) and look nice (or to software for unix that
> does the same). Please send these suggestions to me off-list at
> jwest@classiccmp.org
>
> 3) This isn't really important - just random "what if" thinking out loud - I
> was considering moving the mailing list and mail list archives off to a
> separate machine that does nothing but classiccmp. This is being considered
> for logistics reasons, not for horsepower/load  reasons. I have all the
> spare components (cpu, memory, drives, etc) but no spare rackmount chassis.
> I can just order a rackmount chassis under my company which I'm perfectly
> willing to do, but was wondering if anyone had a rackmount chassis just
> laying around that they didn't need and would donate to the cause. The key
> criteria - EIA units (space!). I would strongly prefer a 1U (1 EIA unit, or
> 1.75 inches) tall unit. We charge on rackspace by the inch, so I want the
> machine to take as little space as possible so I can obviously sell the
> rackspace to other paying customers. I would consider a 2U (2.5 inches) tall
> unit (which I already have spare) as a fall-back plan, but definitely
> nothing taller than that. Anyone have a spare laying around? If so, please
> contact me OFF LIST at jwest@classiccmp.org
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay West
>
>
>
>
>


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 20 12:16:47 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam (Doc)
References: <15512.23154.748260.884099@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15512.53775.34752.235957@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 20, Doc wrote:
> > >   Go stand in the corner.
> >
> >   Oh c'mon Doc.  Surely I didn't get you with THAT one. ;)
> 
>   It was just so *lame*!

  Yeah, I know...I'm sorry.  I'll try to do better next time. ;)

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 20 12:23:40 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <000401c1d03c$5f8d5e80$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Ethan Dicks 
>I know that some people (very few) have technological impediments that
>force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).

This is bunk!  Outlook can and does post without html, it's easy to turn
off.

Please, NO HTML and No IMAGES.  The latter was part of a few spams
we got!

Allison



From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 20 12:35:10 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: Re: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis (Ethan Dicks)
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
	<20020320174917.28386.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15512.54878.623062.142755@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 20, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> In theory, I support this, but if it's possible to filter them down
> to their textual content on the way through, that might be good, also.
> I know that some people (very few) have technological impediments that
> force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).

  Nope.  Even LookOut Express can be told not to HTMLize messages.  Some
people use webmail services which spew huge amounts of HTML...but
quite frankly, there are plenty of such services that don't...and
anyone who chooses one that does should probably be suspended by their
toenails and pummeled into unconsciousness with an organically-grown
cucumber.

  In short...there is *no* excuse for sending HTML email other than
inexperience or stupidity.

       -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 12:38:20 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <001c01c1d03a$e7726900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> Also, the fact that these items come up in searches certainly makes it
> important that the subject line be the actual subject of the post.  There have
> been plenty of posts with a title of (just as an example) "MV2000 PSU" that
> are 20 posts down the road from the last even remotely related item.  If every
> post to the list with that title produces a hit for the search engines looking
> for MV2000, I'd bet they get a lot of spambot fodder from that.  What's more,
> if you want your posts to be locatable by the search engines, it certainly
> doesn't help that the discussion topic wanders under a completely irrelvant
> title.

Such as a search for "rack chassis"??
It is amusing to hear complaints about failure to update subject line
under an unupdated subject line.


> The HTML filter would certainly be a good idea.  Once people realize their
> HTML posts don't find their way to distribution, they'll take the 1 second to
> turn that feature off.

I like it, and I HATE HTML mail, BUT, . . . 
the majority of people sending HTML with Outhouse, etc. can NOT turn that
feature off in 1 second, because
1)  they don't know how
2)  they don't know what HTML IS
3)  they are in denial - "I looked at it on MY screen, and it IS nothing
but text!; it's already the simplest, easiest to read font that I have,
should I switch to a lighter colored background?"


I assume that the [OL] tag would be automatically generated.  Otherwise
you would have a 0% compliance, since the only people who would both know
about the requirement and be willing to comply would be those who ARE on
the list.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From univac2 at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 12:40:38 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: 

on 3/20/02 10:53 AM, Jay West at jwest@classiccmp.org wrote:

> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
> list settings....
> 
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

I think that is a very good idea, but the sender should be made aware of
exactly why their message was rejected.
 
> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

I think that's also a very good idea.

--
Owen Robertson


From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 20 12:45:22 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B4E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Lawson [mailto:jpl15@panix.com]

>   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to one 
> serial port on
> a PDP-11 running a backround job counting total turns, 
> comparing against
> approximate turns-to-roll-exhaustion, and triggering (thru 
> another serial
> port) an appropriate alarm, or perhaps printing out a TP-LO Warning.

Actually, I think it may be better to mount a strategically
placed laser diode, and a reflector on the opposite side.

That would take a visual cue at the point the roll got thin
enough to let the laser hit the other side...

>   Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
> hands?

A very low-power line running to the edge of the drain, that
would allow the water to complete the circuit when it hit
the bottom of the sink.  You could couple that with a soap
dispenser sensor (Is that anything like conjunction junction?)
and get a pretty good test.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 12:48:47 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <15512.54878.623062.142755@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:
>   Nope.  Even LookOut Express can be told not to HTMLize messages.  Some
> people use webmail services which spew huge amounts of HTML...but
> quite frankly, there are plenty of such services that don't...and
> anyone who chooses one that does should probably be suspended by their
> toenails and pummeled into unconsciousness with an organically-grown
> cucumber.
>   In short...there is *no* excuse for sending HTML email other than
> inexperience or stupidity.

I thought that molten iron was the fix of choice for such behaviors


From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 20 12:53:12 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B4F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org]

> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML 
> content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want 
> HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some 
> form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it 
> would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to 
> the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like 
> that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think 
> it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

I like plan B.  It sounds simple enough, and 
people can decide whether to trash the off-list
mail themselves.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 


From jhfine at idirect.com  Wed Mar 20 12:56:34 2002
From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <3C98DB62.2DE6E215@idirect.com>

>Jay West wrote:

> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
> list settings....
>
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

Jerome Fine replies:

My only comment is that since the list seems fairly stable right now,
why not leave A) until later?  I agree that SPAM is more likely
to contain HTML, but I suspect SPAM is still so rare in any case
and being able to filter it off via B) below should be more than
sufficient.  Again I base this on the S/N ratio of comments on
SPAM to actual SPAM.  Even these "List Changes" posts far
exceed actual SPAM - so if ever there is a SPAM that has
NO comments, then I might be prepared to agree actual
SPAM is a problem.

OR - if it is just as easy, why not add the characters [HTML] or
just [HT] to the front of those messages.

However, if you (i.e. Jay) decides to prohibit messages with HTML,
then I suggest that you do not tell the sender.  An ON-list member
will quickly notice that their messages are NOT being sent and
stop using HTML.

And my final suggestion is that Jay decides - just as I have been
saying before.

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

While I think I might have been the first to suggest [OL] be added at the
FRONT of the Subject line, I must admit that the idea came from a
list I receive which adds 9 characters at the beginning (including the []
characters).  This is a yahoo based list, so they might have some special
software that is not widely available.

One aspect that will not be needed is a check to see if the message
is a reply - in theory replies will only come from list subscribers.

So, I STRONGLY support adding [OL] at the FRONT of the Subject
Line for posts that are off-list in origin.  And suggest nothing else be
done for now.

Except - that Jay decides.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine


From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 20 13:04:56 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: 

>-	How about a TP holder that measures the weight? Or a spring loaded
>arm, that contacts a switch when it get near empty. With a wheel at the end,
>you can also have it provide drag on the roll, for spin control. Then it
>won't be so easy for my cat to run all around the house with it...

You read my mind... I was going to suggest a spring arm pressing against 
the roll. The further the arm travels, the lower the roll. This should 
also take very little adjustment since you are looking for % left. 
Actually, since rolls all share a common spindle diameter... it would be 
easy to have this auto adjust for good thick rolls vs, cheap economy 
paper. You know the end location, so add a sensor to know when the roll 
has been changed. When the "new roll" sensor is tripped, take the current 
reading, that is max size. Now you can calculate the difference from 
there to empty, and relay a % left no matter what the initial thickness 
is. (the only time this would start to be off is on roll "reloads" of 
partially used rolls)

Two problems with the earlier mentioned rotation counter... 1: you need 
to deal with vastly different sheet counts (Scott will turn WAY more 
times than Charmin will, but both are roughly the same diameter, just 
Charmin is thicker so has fewer sheets per roll, thus fewer turns till 
empty).

And of course, a turn based counter needs to subtract for roll 
re-rolling... for the times the cat decides to use it as a batting toy, 
and unrolls half of it onto the floor. The counter has to subtract turns 
as you spin the paper back onto the roll.

Oh yeah... and a spin counter would be throw off by those 4am "where did 
the end of the roll go blind half asleep multiple rotations trying to 
find the start" situations.

Nah... a simple spring arm reading resistance based off roll diameter 
would probably work best.

-chris




From kentborg at borg.org  Wed Mar 20 13:10:46 2002
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: ; from cisin@xenosoft.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 10:38:20AM -0800
References: <001c01c1d03a$e7726900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> 
Message-ID: <20020320141046.C6489@borg.org>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 10:38:20AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> I like it, and I HATE HTML mail, BUT, . . . 
> the majority of people sending HTML with Outhouse, etc. can NOT turn that
> feature off in 1 second, because
> 1)  they don't know how
> 2)  they don't know what HTML IS
> 3)  they are in denial - "I looked at it on MY screen, and it IS nothing
> but text!; it's already the simplest, easiest to read font that I have,
> should I switch to a lighter colored background?"

And that logic might apply on other lists, but isn't this one about
classic computers?  I know html didn't exist when many of these beasts
were made, but anyone geeky enough to play with such toys still should
be educable enough to get html turned off.

-kb


From bpope at wordstock.com  Wed Mar 20 13:12:22 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Text-based PONG!
Message-ID: <200203201912.OAA12070@wordstock.com>


Check out http://www.karber.net/textbased/pong/ where you can play Pong with 
*ANY* browser, including Lynx!

Enjoy!,

Bryan

P.S.  I did not have anything to do with the creation of this masterpiece.


From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 13:13:01 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467791@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Dave McGuire
> 
> On March 20, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > In theory, I support this, but if it's possible to filter them down
> > to their textual content on the way through, that might be good, also.
> > I know that some people (very few) have technological impediments that
> > force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).
> 
>   Nope.  Even LookOut Express can be told not to HTMLize messages.  Some
> people use webmail services which spew huge amounts of HTML...but
> quite frankly, there are plenty of such services that don't...and
> anyone who chooses one that does should probably be suspended by their
> toenails and pummeled into unconsciousness with an organically-grown
> cucumber.
> 
>   In short...there is *no* excuse for sending HTML email other than
> inexperience or stupidity.
> 
>        -Dave
> 
> -- 
> 
	Dave - what/where are the web mail services that don't send html
mail? Or even a service I can telnet/ssh into for e-mail...
	I'm going to be switching to a new ISP for home (Comcast cable), so
this is a good time to really start some SPAM prevention measures...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 20 13:17:33 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: VAXstation 4000/90 with /60 graphics
Message-ID: <20020320201733.A279312@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

Hi.

I converted a VAXstation 4000/60 to a /90 by replacing the main system
board. The new machine works well:
 
KA49-A V1.0-006-V4.0
08-00-2B-37-58-9D
32MB
                                    

OK

  83 BOOT SYS

but when I plug in the old graphics board from the /60 I get:
 
KA49-A V1.0-006-V4.0
08-00-2B-37-58-9D
32MB
                                       
?? 016   2            0000

>>> 

Is the /60 graphics board not compatible with the /90 main system board?

-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 20 13:30:12 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: RE: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis (David Woyciesjes)
References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467791@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <15512.58180.867120.578653@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 20, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> 	Dave - what/where are the web mail services that don't send html
> mail?

  I investigated this some time ago and found several; I didn't keep a
record of them though.

> Or even a service I can telnet/ssh into for e-mail...

  For the latter, a friend of mine runs a shell account service...I
will ask her if she's interested in a little publicity; if she is I'll
send a message to the list about it.

> 	I'm going to be switching to a new ISP for home (Comcast cable), so
> this is a good time to really start some SPAM prevention measures...

  Sounds like a good idea.

          -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From menadeau at attbi.com  Wed Mar 20 13:34:05 2002
From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:35 2005
Subject: Plexus minicomputer?
References: 
Message-ID: <005b01c1d046$3350b560$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>

Sellam;

It's a Multibus, Unix-based system running on multiple Z8000 processors. The
October 1983 BYTE has a little info on it on page 140, if you happen to have
that issue lying around.

--Mike

Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com
>
> Anyone know about Plexus minicomputers?  I am going to pick one up soon.
> I'm told it's about 3-4 feet high by 2 feet wide by 5-6 feet deep, and
> heavy.
>
> --
>
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer
Festival
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
>
>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
>
>


From zmerch at 30below.com  Wed Mar 20 13:53:46 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <15512.58180.867120.578653@phaduka.neurotica.com>
References: 
 <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467791@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020320145346.01713950@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Dave McGuire may have mentioned these words:
>On March 20, David Woyciesjes wrote:
>> 	Dave - what/where are the web mail services that don't send html
>> mail?
>
>  I investigated this some time ago and found several; I didn't keep a
>record of them though.

I have a yahoo.com email account - although it can send HTML mail, it
defaults to plaintext - you have to click the button to change it to HTML.

That's the only one that I really use, so I HTH a little...

BTW, the latest AOL cannot be 'de-HTML-ized' from what I've heard - you can
send plaintext mail, but if you reply to an HTMLized email, the entire
message stays HTMLized and you can't change it.

However, IANAAOLL [I Am Not An AOL Lamer... ;^> ]

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 14:00:23 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467792@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Chris
> 
> >-	How about a TP holder that measures the weight? Or a spring loaded
> >arm, that contacts a switch when it get near empty. With a wheel at the
> end,
> >you can also have it provide drag on the roll, for spin control. Then it
> >won't be so easy for my cat to run all around the house with it...
> 
> You read my mind... I was going to suggest a spring arm pressing against 
> the roll. The further the arm travels, the lower the roll. This should 
> also take very little adjustment since you are looking for % left. 
> Actually, since rolls all share a common spindle diameter... it would be 
> easy to have this auto adjust for good thick rolls vs, cheap economy 
> paper. You know the end location, so add a sensor to know when the roll 
> has been changed. When the "new roll" sensor is tripped, take the current 
> reading, that is max size. Now you can calculate the difference from 
> there to empty, and relay a % left no matter what the initial thickness 
> is. (the only time this would start to be off is on roll "reloads" of 
> partially used rolls)....
> 
> ....
> Nah... a simple spring arm reading resistance based off roll diameter 
> would probably work best.
> 
	It doesn't even have to be that complicated. The cardboard tubes are
all the same thickness, give or take a millimeter, so you know where the
stop point is, all the time, every time. Set the switch to trigger the TP=LO
warning about 1/4 or 1/2 inch away from that point.

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 14:02:34 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467793@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Allison
> 
> From: Ethan Dicks 
> >I know that some people (very few) have technological impediments that
> >force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).
> 
> This is bunk!  Outlook can and does post without html, it's easy to turn
> off.
> 
> Please, NO HTML and No IMAGES.  The latter was part of a few spams
> we got!
> 
> Allison
> 
> 
Well, I'm using Outlook on my Mac, and HTML/Richtext crap is off... Or
should be...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 20 14:12:15 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: PDP11/45 microcode?
References: 
Message-ID: <046901c1d04b$87ad7120$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

Anybody have a  machine readable version on the 
11/45 microcode? Worse case a scan of a manual
or fiche? It's for an fpga-11/45  implementation project.

thanks,
Heinz


From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Wed Mar 20 14:26:27 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Disabling DSD-440 bootstrap
References: 
Message-ID: <3C98F073.6654D500@bluewin.ch>

Tom Leffingwell wrote:
> 
>         Does anyone know what jumpers to change to disable the bootstrap
> on the DSD-440 controller?  Actually, if anyone has the rest of the jumper
> settings, I would also like to know for reference, since I don't have any
> docs for it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

It depends on the controller :
For the QBUS / LSI-11 controller : short the "dsbt" strap on position F-5.

			Jos Dreesen

From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 20 14:31:42 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: 

>BTW, the latest AOL cannot be 'de-HTML-ized' from what I've heard - you can
>send plaintext mail, but if you reply to an HTMLized email, the entire
>message stays HTMLized and you can't change it.

This is correct. There is not way to "turn off" HTML at all in the latest 
AOL. The only thing you can do is use ONLY the default email text 
settings. If you do that, then AOL will send a text only email. But ANY 
alterations to it will cause AOL to send HTML email (you can redefault it 
in the prefs to turn it back off).

And if you receive an HTML email, you can't de-HTML it in AOL. Once HTML, 
always HTML in AOL.

-chris




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar 20 15:02:09 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" 
        "Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)" (Mar 20, 15:50)
References: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca>  <3C98AFBA.6002.48CF9F97@localhost>
Message-ID: <10203202102.ZM14059@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 20, 15:50, Hans Franke wrote:

> Isn't using a PDP-11 as perhipheral processor for a ZX81
> a bit out of scope ?

Surely you don't think it should be the other way around? :-)

> (*) Ach ja: if the TU (toilet user) had tried to open the
> door, a message like 'The sanitary sywstem of this UDP
> facility would apreciate if you also cleanthe door handle'
> should be added.

LOL!

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar 20 15:19:36 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: "Jay West" 
        "list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis" (Mar 20, 10:53)
References: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <10203202119.ZM14175@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 20, 10:53, Jay West wrote:

> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I
think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways.

This would reject a lot of spam, I think, but would reject some "real"
posts as well.  Personally, I find the multipart/alternative posts aren't
too hard to deal with, it's the ones that use odd MIME settings (like
multipart/signed and various other unnecessary stuff) that irritate me
most.

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This
one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

I think that's a good idea.  Then people can do their own filtering if they
want -- by eye if not by procmail or similar.  I'd be very happy with that.

> 2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org THAT is a project I have fallen
> far behind in. When I moved the list from the old ISP to the new ISP (me
in
> both cases, long story)... something broke in getting emails from the
list
> to the archive mechanism. I noticed this maybe a month ago, and when I
> started digging into it I realized it was time for a change - the
archives
> there are not searchable and that just isn't acceptable.

I really miss the archive.  I find the threading very useful, and I'd
certainly regard that as an important factor, more so than searching (I can
use Google for that).

However, I have some idea of the resources that go into maintaining lists
and archives, and I'm grateful for what I've got :-)   Thank you for
providing it.


-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From tim.myers at sunplan.com  Wed Mar 20 15:20:11 2002
From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
Message-ID: <000001c1d055$06854780$0300000a@local.sunplan.com>


I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
;). Anyone have any more information about this beast? 

Tim.


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar 20 15:26:22 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: David Woyciesjes 
        "RE: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis" (Mar 20, 12:59)
References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146778E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <10203202126.ZM14182@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 20, 12:59, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> > From: 	Jay West

> > A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content...
> >
> 	Sounds good to me.
>
> 	I think a Reply To Sender telling them why it got rejected might be
> a good thing. Then we might not piss off some 70 year old guy trying to
give
> his F-1 a good home...

You probably still would, becasue although I've yet to find a mail client
that can't send plain text (every version of Outlook I've seen can),
chances are the 70-year old isn't sure how to change it.  My father
certainly wouldn't know how.

> > B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list
from
> > non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that.
>
> 	Another good idea.
>
> 	Can't the system compare the From or ReplyTo field against the
> subscriber list, and take action from there?
> 	People like me might need some assistance here. You see, my
_actual_
> e-mail address is DAW@yalespress3.unipress.yale.edu. Yale ITS just
provides
> an alias for me which is David.Woyciesjes@Yale.edu. Both work fine, and I
> think both are in the headers of my messages. Confuses some other
automated
> mail systems...

Good point.  There are almost certainly people on the list who've
subscribed from a different address than the one they have the mail sent
to.  Not insurmountable, but it does need consideraton.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Mar 20 15:34:54 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d055$06854780$0300000a@local.sunplan.com> from "Tim Myers" at Mar 20, 2002 09:20:11 PM
Message-ID: <200203202134.g2KLYs419738@shell1.aracnet.com>

> I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
> floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
> installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
> ;). Anyone have any more information about this beast? 
> 
> Tim.

Does it by any chance look like the following computer?

http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Paxton/P040.JPG

If so it's a MINC-11.

		Zane


From tony.eros at machm.org  Wed Mar 20 15:42:57 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d055$06854780$0300000a@local.sunplan.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020320164202.028f3440@mail.njd.concentric.com>

Cool!

I don't know anything about it, but I'd sure like to!  I have a MINC-11.

Any chance you'd consider trading it?  Is there anything you're looking for 
in particular?

-- Tony

At 09:20 PM 3/20/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
>floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
>installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
>;). Anyone have any more information about this beast?
>
>Tim.


From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Wed Mar 20 15:57:42 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Handmade TI980A peripheral (was Re: TI 980B picture)
References: <20020320171837.6169.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9905D6.6000202@dragonsweb.org>

Ethan Dicks wrote:

> I have no solid knowledge of where this came from, but from the
> construction
> techniques, it's a prototype, not a custom-engineered one-off.  The 
> connectors are sawed in half for the (original equipment) I/O card,
> and the DMA connector cable adapter is a sawed-up extender card from a
> different bus with stripped ribbon cable ends soldered to the traces
> (several of which have seperated due to poor technique).  I have at least
> three components which have fallen out and several broken wires, making
> a full schematic impossible.  It might be able to document enough to deduce
> what it does, but not precisely how it does it.
> 
> The 980 was used as a process controller, AFAIK.  This is probably some
> custom interface to some data collection equipment and perhaps some
> actuators for use in the school electronics lab.  I doubt this came out
> of TI, given how it's put together.
> 

It wouldn't have to be TI, and my brother-in-law the electronics tech 
would tell you that if that if the workmanship leaves something to be 
desired, that's a sure sign of a college-boy engineer :-) (Or maybe a 
pinch-hitting academic generalist? Nah.) So they might not leap forward 
to take credit at this point, but that hardly means the design is 
without merit.

I appreciate your position. It's not the parts themselves that matter as 
much as the design in any case. A good, clear set of photos with 
sufficient detail and resolution (ie. you can read part numbers) should 
suffice to ward off entropy. Plus you are putting the components to good 
use.

jbdigriz


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:22 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
 <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020320170422.0082e410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Jeff,

   They came out of that custom built machine that had all the GAPP cards
in it but right now they're not in anything. FWIW the 4853s were used in
the Zenith Z-100s. I had some of them in the two z-100s that I had. That's
were I got the docs for them from.  I'm not sure but I think the two
SB-180s that I used to have also used 4853s.


    Joe

At 04:28 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>    I have docs for the Mitsubishi 4853 (that's what I use).
>
>Joe,
>
>	What machine do you use the 4853 in?
>
>	Jeff
>-- 
>                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                         http://www.cchaven.com
>                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
>
>


From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Wed Mar 20 16:24:55 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467795@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	pete@dunnington.u-net.com
> 
> On Mar 20, 12:59, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> > > From: 	Jay West
> 
> > > B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list
> > from
> > > non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that.
> >
> > 	Another good idea.
> >
> > 	Can't the system compare the From or ReplyTo field against the
> > subscriber list, and take action from there?
> > 	People like me might need some assistance here. You see, my
> _actual_
> > e-mail address is DAW@yalespress3.unipress.yale.edu. Yale ITS just
> provides
> > an alias for me which is David.Woyciesjes@Yale.edu. Both work fine, and
> I
> > think both are in the headers of my messages. Confuses some other
> automated
> > mail systems...
> 
> Good point.  There are almost certainly people on the list who've
> subscribed from a different address than the one they have the mail sent
> to.  Not insurmountable, but it does need consideraton.
> 
> -- 
> 
	Of course, it depends on how people get subscribed/added to the
list. I would think addresses can be changed by hand on the server, right?
Maybe this would be fixed on a case by case basis. Either way, messages
would still go through until Jay, or someone designated by him, updates the
address list...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 20 16:26:17 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Attn: stan perkins
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020320172617.0082ee30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Stan,

   I can't find your address but I thought this might interest you.

    Joe

HP PASCAL 9000 LANGUAGE 500 REFERENCE MANUAL  
Item # 2011192981  



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 16:49:42 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020320170422.0082e410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <20020319055303.VKOS18910.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
 <3.0.6.32.20020319153358.00817270@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20020320170422.0082e410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

>    They came out of that custom built machine that had all the GAPP cards
>in it but right now they're not in anything. FWIW the 4853s were used in
>the Zenith Z-100s. I had some of them in the two z-100s that I had. That's
>were I got the docs for them from.  I'm not sure but I think the two
>SB-180s that I used to have also used 4853s.

	Ahhh...I've got four of them myself, all installed in TRS-80 
Model 2000's.  The tech and maint. manuals for both variants are 
included in the 2000's tech manual.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 20 16:55:14 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
Message-ID: <3C991352.10403@aurora.regenstrief.org>

It is very contemplative to sit in the basement, room filled with
big iron and lots of blower and disk noise, and watch the system
creep ahead compiling stuff. I remember those old days back in, say,
1994 when I sat there on a i486/33 watching GCC compile (and those
*endless* runs of all the fix-include stuff.) What surprizes me is
that the feeling on a 1989 vintage 6-processor million-dollar VAX
isn't very different! I expected it to be faster with that.

So I looked at statistics. Nothing paged out (0.5 GB of RAM),
but looks like the system is heavily I/O bound and I/O
is quite slow. I even distributed disk load over 3 RA90, though all on
the same controller, but at least that's a KDM70, directly on the XMI
bus. Still, disk access seems just a bit on the slow side. Why?

All terminal I/O went through the Ethernet, which I thought was a
DEBNT but is reported to me as a DEBNA. Anyway, that's just the
few lines of text that are being logged as make creeps forward with
its job.

Looked at cpustat (we're on Ultrix 4.5 BTW), where you can see the
load on the CPUs. Sorry, no "screenshot" here, but in short it lists
6 CPU's and the load on each. 5 of them tend to be 97% idle and CPU#1
is 75% idle. CPU #1 gets bombarded with all interrupt requests while
the others get none of that. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out how
one can see process to CPU allocation. I suppose that each process
runs in a single thread on one CPU every time it is active. Since the
making and the cc-ing is a sequential thing writing temporary files
to disk, I suppose that the 5 idle processors have nothing to do
while CPU#1 takes all the burden of the compiling task plus all
other system interrupts (essentiall all I/O.) So, that's kind of
not optimal.

I suppose, once I have my first GCC built I should use the -pipe
option to avoid temporary files with the hope that the two ends
of each pipe would then be allocated to two different CPUs. That
should then speed up the process a lot, basically could stream cpp
on CPU#1 to cc1 on CPU#2 to as on CPU#3 right through. I hope. That
is, if UNIX domain sockets (i.e. pipes) are implemented so as to not
require any hardware IO. I *hope* this is simply done by CPU#1
entering kernel with an mbuf and CPU#2 entering kernel shortly
thereafter reading that mbuf, so only memory should be involved.

It's interesting. At some time soon, may be early this summer,
I'll give a VAX party where one of the highlights will be a
race between my i486/33 and the 6460 in compiling something,
there we can see if it's really just my perception that the
6460 is kind of slow for the price, even measured by past
standards.

Another thing that made me wonder is that writing to the TU81+
on KLESI-B showed its signs of I/O bottlenecks. When I just
did

# tar cvb 20 -f /dev/nrmt0h /usr5/gcc-2.7.2

the tape would write block by block in staccato and would not
stream. The TU81 is still nice even in block mode, not that
endless back and forth of the TK50 or any other cassette media
that I have seen operating, it's a fast staccato tatatatatatata,
you gotta see this!

Only if I used my dd buffering trick with

# tar cvb 20 -f - /usr5/gcc-2.7.2 |dd ibs=2048000 of=/dev/nrmt0h obs=10240

would it stream over larger sections. But the slightest disk
read activity would cause a little pause to the tape transport.
First I thought I should be rearranging my cards on the VAXBI
busses, but then I remembered that the disks are on XMI directly.
So, a simple RA90 read through KDM70 on XML is just not fast
enough in order to keep the VAXBI - KLESIB - TU81+ streaming.
Are the RA90 disks so slow? Or may be it is Ultrix' bad way of
using the multipe CPUs again, i.e., they still handle all the
work through one single CPU#1 while the others are chatting idly?

Does NetBSD do a better job with SMP? Would it use one CPU for
the disk IO and another CPU for the KLESI-B IO with shared
memory buffers in the middle? May be not if I used just one
process to both read from disk and write to tape (like tar
only), but with the pipe, tar | dd it should do it and that
should allow me to use a smaller ibs for dd, AND have real
streaming write to the tape. Or is SMP on NetBSD/VAX still a
sub-optimal hack?

When I attended BSDcon 2002 in San Francisco few weeks ago,
it seemed like all the BSDs would go different ways about SMP.
I liked what Jason announced about NetBSD, like IO being
handled without memory data copies, and the kernel actually
shrinking in size. I would hope that all BSD/SMP efforts
nowadays seek to allow true load sharing between the CPUs
and not shedule IRQs to only one and not hog that one primary
I/O CPU with *all* processes that have any I/O to do. And
I sure hope that it will be natural for pipelined processes
to operate on different CPUs. Right?

regards,
-Gunther


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 20 16:58:18 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: 386/BSD should be on  TUHS.
Message-ID: <3C99140A.1070109@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi, I want to bring my first private UNIX machine, the i486/33
back into its original state running 386/BSD 0.0new or 0.1.
Shouldn't these releases and the patch-kit be put up on TUHS?
I'm not sure I still have backups, and a fresh install would
be nice.

regards
-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 20 17:05:39 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
Message-ID: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hihi, our little training in risk-assessment tonight is the following
sippet of a crontab entry, scheduled to run dayly around midnight:

(cd /usr/preserve ; find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)

why is this a bad idea and what happened to me last night as I was
playing with my VAX6460?















































Answer: the /usr/preserve was a symlink to /usr/var/preserve which
didn't exist. What happened next?














































All files that were not accessed for more than 7 days were being deleted (and
I basically installed this system 3 days ago but had fast forwarded my system
time from 1976 to 2002 the day before. :-)



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 20 17:21:50 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Vintage hardware trivia quiz [funny]
Message-ID: <3C99198E.8060202@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Found this at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/22794.html

History
Are you an old bastard?

7. >Clunka Clunka Clunka< is the sound you would most associate with:
A. The Clothes Dryer
B. A washing machine with an imbalanced load
C. A flat tyre on your car
D. A tape safe door shutting repeatedly on an annoying user's foot
E. An imbalanced DEC RM05 Disk assembly moving around the computer room by itself during a head crash

8. You drop a screwdriver down a ventilation hole in the powersupply at
the back of a VAX 11/780. You expect:
A. A very careful removal process
B. A powersupply failure
C. A nasty >crack< noise
D. Power outage to the computer room?
E. Looting of the shops in the two adjacent streets after the local transformer trips out

9. The nine-track tape you're using is having problems reading some
very important survey data for some critical research - only getting
half-way through the tape before failing. You would:
A. Clean the read heads, which probably are dirty
B. Have the tape sent to a commercial data recovery centre
C. A, then reduce the temperature of the computer room, and try to complete the read
D. Report the failure to the user
E. Just cut and repeatedly paste data from the beginning of the data file
until the file's up to size

10. The greatest danger to the RA60 removable hard disk media was:
A. Not being locked into the drive spindle tightly
B. Not being able to be removed from the drive spindle after use
C. Disk damage if the cover lock unlatched itself during use
D. Dirty read heads
E. A preventative maintenance by the Engineer

11. The correct combination of carefully timed disk seeks on the drives
in an RA80 disk drive rack could cause:
A. A 'Tune' to play
B. A Small vibration
C. A Large vibration
D. A very large vibration
E. The disk rack to run in 'horizontal' mode

12. A user has been looking through the sad remnants of their life and
found a large box of several thousand punchcards of their undergraduate
work, which they would like you to do something with. A good Administrator
would:
A. Call a Computer Museum and get them read
B. Write a quick program to interface to a scanner and read them
C. Give the user the Punch card hole code info so they could type them in
D. Throw them in the bin and tell the user that they've been demagnetised
E. Throw them at the user from a fourth-floor window


Sorry, no answers, it says:

-Key
There is no key. There is never a key! You don't need one. Not if you're
the real McCoy! Not if you can clockchip your car computer to get an extra
two miles an hour out of the old Rustang before it drops it's driveshaft
after the excess vibration. Not if you remember the heady days of a card
punch machine that was so loud it had the pensioners down the road digging
trenches and sorting out their meat rations.


But we can take votes.

-Gunther

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From rdd at rddavis.org  Wed Mar 20 17:23:01 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20020320232300.GC5579@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Joseph.Pollizzi@encompassus.org, from writings of Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 03:45:49PM -0600:
> Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer Corporation have announced that they
> both believe that they have enough shareholder votes to approve the merger.

DEC's destruction began when DEC was palmerized into a ghost of it's
former self and sold into slavery to Microsoft.  Then much damage to
this once great computer company, DEC, was done by Compaq (a wannabe
computer company that never made real computers, and destroyed an
acquisition, DEC, that did), and, now, this appears to be little more
than the nails being hammered into the coffin of what was once Digital
Equipment Corporation.  

R.D.D.

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From univac2 at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 17:38:32 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <20020320232300.GC5579@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: 

on 3/20/02 5:23 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote:

> Quothe Joseph.Pollizzi@encompassus.org, from writings of Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at
> 03:45:49PM -0600:
>> Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer Corporation have announced that they
>> both believe that they have enough shareholder votes to approve the merger.
> 
> DEC's destruction began when DEC was palmerized into a ghost of it's
> former self and sold into slavery to Microsoft.  Then much damage to
> this once great computer company, DEC, was done by Compaq (a wannabe
> computer company that never made real computers, and destroyed an
> acquisition, DEC, that did), and, now, this appears to be little more
> than the nails being hammered into the coffin of what was once Digital
> Equipment Corporation.

I thought the $9.6 billion DEC acquisition in 1998 was supposed to be a
merger, the product of which would be the second-largest computer company in
the world. Four years later, it doesn't look like it worked out that way. HP
is going to acquire Compaq, even though a lot of the shareholders are
against it. Will HP do to Compaq what Compaq did to DEC? If they do, somehow
I doubt people will miss Compaq like they do DEC.

--
Owen Robertson


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 20 18:00:05 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: 
Message-ID: <000f01c1d06b$5b572380$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

It's more a question of whether Compaq will do to HP what DEC did to Compaq.
In either case, I'm glad I don' t hold any HP stock.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Robertson" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Destruction of DEC


> on 3/20/02 5:23 PM, R. D. Davis at rdd@rddavis.org wrote:
>
> > Quothe Joseph.Pollizzi@encompassus.org, from writings of Wed, Mar 20, 2002
at
> > 03:45:49PM -0600:
> >> Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer Corporation have announced that they
> >> both believe that they have enough shareholder votes to approve the
merger.
> >
> > DEC's destruction began when DEC was palmerized into a ghost of it's
> > former self and sold into slavery to Microsoft.  Then much damage to
> > this once great computer company, DEC, was done by Compaq (a wannabe
> > computer company that never made real computers, and destroyed an
> > acquisition, DEC, that did), and, now, this appears to be little more
> > than the nails being hammered into the coffin of what was once Digital
> > Equipment Corporation.
>
> I thought the $9.6 billion DEC acquisition in 1998 was supposed to be a
> merger, the product of which would be the second-largest computer company in
> the world. Four years later, it doesn't look like it worked out that way. HP
> is going to acquire Compaq, even though a lot of the shareholders are
> against it. Will HP do to Compaq what Compaq did to DEC? If they do, somehow
> I doubt people will miss Compaq like they do DEC.
>
> --
> Owen Robertson
>
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 18:06:26 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <3C9826B9.56C14088@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Mar 19, 2 11:05:45 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 458 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/4e976017/attachment.ksh
From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Mar 20 18:06:35 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
Message-ID: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>


What ought to happen to these asswipes should be what
happened to the company I used to work for:  

The 'aggressor' company purchased a competitor, but
by so doing, bit off *way* more than it could chew,
incurring hevy debtload and ensuing layoffs.

The whole bloody mess will be in bankruptcy court
before the year is out.

Serves 'em both right . . . .


Jeff

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:00:05 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" 
writes:
> It's more a question of whether Compaq will do to HP what DEC did to 
> Compaq.
> In either case, I'm glad I don' t hold any HP stock.
> 
> Dick
> 


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 18:09:20 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To:  from "John Lawson" at Mar 20, 2 01:39:15 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 776 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/6b9493dc/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 18:24:16 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cfde$a7d92600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 20, 2 00:12:54 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 349 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/5b47716b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 18:35:10 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Londinium
In-Reply-To: <3C98C379.25568.491CC4BC@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 20, 2 05:14:33 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1889 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/16b26ea0/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 18:40:58 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Mar 20, 2 10:53:43 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1298 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/df00bcb9/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 19:08:28 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d055$06854780$0300000a@local.sunplan.com> from "Tim Myers" at Mar 20, 2 09:20:11 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 614 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/ef7d3134/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 19:14:21 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Vintage hardware trivia quiz [funny]
In-Reply-To: <3C99198E.8060202@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Mar 20, 2 06:21:50 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 3165 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/eeff8280/attachment.ksh
From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Wed Mar 20 19:30:04 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
In-Reply-To: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 


Mine has this too, did you not have a /usr/preserve?
Otherwise it would just kill your vi journal file.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Hihi, our little training in risk-assessment tonight is the following
> sippet of a crontab entry, scheduled to run dayly around midnight:
> 
> (cd /usr/preserve ; find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
> 
> why is this a bad idea and what happened to me last night as I was
> playing with my VAX6460?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer: the /usr/preserve was a symlink to /usr/var/preserve which
> didn't exist. What happened next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All files that were not accessed for more than 7 days were being deleted (and
> I basically installed this system 3 days ago but had fast forwarded my system
> time from 1976 to 2002 the day before. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 19:32:06 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
In-Reply-To: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020321013206.20960.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Gunther Schadow  wrote:
> Hihi, our little training in risk-assessment tonight is the following
> sippet of a crontab entry, scheduled to run dayly around midnight:
> 
> (cd /usr/preserve ; find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
> 
> why is this a bad idea and what happened to me last night as I was
> playing with my VAX6460?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer: the /usr/preserve was a symlink to /usr/var/preserve which
> didn't exist. What happened next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All files that were not accessed for more than 7 days were being deleted
> (and
> I basically installed this system 3 days ago but had fast forwarded my
> system
> time from 1976 to 2002 the day before. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
> Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
> Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
> tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 19:48:00 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467791@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <20020321014800.37881.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- David Woyciesjes  wrote:
> 	Dave - what/where are the web mail services that don't send html
> mail?

I'm not Dave, but I am sending from a web-mail service - Yahoo!  Plain
text.  You can send HTML mail, but it's not by default.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From pechter at bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com  Wed Mar 20 19:50:36 2002
From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020320164202.028f3440@mail.njd.concentric.com> from
 Tony Eros at "Mar 20, 2002 04:42:57 pm"
Message-ID: <200203210150.g2L1obw25393@bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com>

> Cool!
> 
> I don't know anything about it, but I'd sure like to!  I have a MINC-11.
> 
> Any chance you'd consider trading it?  Is there anything you're looking for 
> in particular?
> 
> -- Tony
> 
> At 09:20 PM 3/20/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> >I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
> >floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
> >installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
> >;). Anyone have any more information about this beast?
> >
> >Tim.

The MiniMinc is a PDT11/150 with the EIS/FIS Microm chips.

I had one and actually tried RT11V5 sysgens on it.
I later used the RT11 Emulator RTEM on the office Vax at DEC to do it
without the headaches...

Bill
-- 
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
  bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 20 19:56:57 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

That appears to be what is happening at HP.  They did something even stupider
when they bought up Apollo in the mid-'80's and learned quite quickly that CAE
was not a realm they should be attempting to capture.  It is a really
attractive field because of the numbers, but once one learns about the profit
margin, one backs off, as they did within a year.  That left a number of
companies high and dry, since HP, and they, realized that HP couldn't support
the products they'd sold, no matter how much money they threw at it.

The PC business is one where DEC didn't fit, and where HP doesn't fit either.
HP's already learned they can't compete with SUN, so they're probably headed
for a big fall here.  Of course that "queen-bee" that ramrodded this
acquisition by the board and perhaps by the stockholders as well, has her
sights set on unseating IBM, and while IBM's not the great power it once was,
mainly because a huge company can't compete over the long term in this market,
IBM's gotten some valuable experience over the couple of decades they've been
in the business, that HP hasn't got yet.

I don't think Compaq has much to contribute to the mix, having endeavored,
successfully, to outlive their market.  They'll probably take HP down with
them.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Destruction of DEC


>
> What ought to happen to these asswipes should be what
> happened to the company I used to work for:
>
> The 'aggressor' company purchased a competitor, but
> by so doing, bit off *way* more than it could chew,
> incurring hevy debtload and ensuing layoffs.
>
> The whole bloody mess will be in bankruptcy court
> before the year is out.
>
> Serves 'em both right . . . .
>
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:00:05 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" 
> writes:
> > It's more a question of whether Compaq will do to HP what DEC did to
> > Compaq.
> > In either case, I'm glad I don' t hold any HP stock.
> >
> > Dick
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 20:24:28 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> Or measure diameter of roll with optical sensors or microswitch from the
> backside.

  Considering the subject, umm, _matter_, "backside may have been apoor
choice of words.

> Or build a dispenser, and have it maintain an inventory count

  Heh.  And an attached loudspeaker to notify the building when the user
grabs half the roll?


	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 20:33:28 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d03c$5f8d5e80$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:


> Please, NO HTML and No IMAGES.  The latter was part of a few spams
> we got!

  Oh, but what FINE images they were!!!

  Sorry, I just couldn't resist.  I blame Dave McGuire.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 20:38:36 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <200203202134.g2KLYs419738@shell1.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote:

>
> http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/Paxton/P040.JPG
>

  THAT looks more like an R2-D2....

	Doc


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Mar 20 20:41:32 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>

Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
frame them and put up with the others. Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Erlacher" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Destruction of DEC


> That appears to be what is happening at HP.  They did something even
stupider
> when they bought up Apollo in the mid-'80's and learned quite quickly
that CAE
> was not a realm they should be attempting to capture.  It is a really
> attractive field because of the numbers, but once one learns about the
profit
> margin, one backs off, as they did within a year.  That left a number
of
> companies high and dry, since HP, and they, realized that HP couldn't
support
> the products they'd sold, no matter how much money they threw at it.
>
> The PC business is one where DEC didn't fit, and where HP doesn't fit
either.
> HP's already learned they can't compete with SUN, so they're probably
headed
> for a big fall here.  Of course that "queen-bee" that ramrodded this
> acquisition by the board and perhaps by the stockholders as well, has
her
> sights set on unseating IBM, and while IBM's not the great power it
once was,
> mainly because a huge company can't compete over the long term in this
market,
> IBM's gotten some valuable experience over the couple of decades
they've been
> in the business, that HP hasn't got yet.
>
> I don't think Compaq has much to contribute to the mix, having
endeavored,
> successfully, to outlive their market.  They'll probably take HP down
with
> them.
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Destruction of DEC
>
>
> >
> > What ought to happen to these asswipes should be what
> > happened to the company I used to work for:
> >
> > The 'aggressor' company purchased a competitor, but
> > by so doing, bit off *way* more than it could chew,
> > incurring hevy debtload and ensuing layoffs.
> >
> > The whole bloody mess will be in bankruptcy court
> > before the year is out.
> >
> > Serves 'em both right . . . .
> >
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:00:05 -0700 "Richard Erlacher"

> > writes:
> > > It's more a question of whether Compaq will do to HP what DEC did
to
> > > Compaq.
> > > In either case, I'm glad I don' t hold any HP stock.
> > >
> > > Dick
> > >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> >
> >
>
>


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 20:41:41 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> > Or build a dispenser, and have it maintain an inventory count
>   Heh.  And an attached loudspeaker to notify the building when the user
> grabs half the roll?

Worse than that; it dispenses.  You need to key in your P.I.N. and request
and it will decide whether to give you that quantity based on your
account, and whether you washed your hands last time, etc.


Actually, the paper handling system in some of the old Panasonic printers
could be adapted.  It would reel back in what the cat had taken, and then
advance just enough to provide a grip for pulling.


From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Wed Mar 20 20:41:59 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
In-Reply-To: <3C991352.10403@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> So I looked at statistics. Nothing paged out (0.5 GB of RAM),
> but looks like the system is heavily I/O bound and I/O
> is quite slow. I even distributed disk load over 3 RA90, though all on
> the same controller, but at least that's a KDM70, directly on the XMI
> bus. Still, disk access seems just a bit on the slow side. Why?

The RA90 is not a speed demon at 3600 rpm and SDI seems to max out under
3MB/s.

      RA90,        fixed-media 9" DSA disk drive

            Capacity ... 1.216 GB, 2376153 total blocks

            2,649 cylinders, 13 tracks/cylinder, 69 sectors

            peak xfer rate ........... 2.77 MB/s
            spiral xfer rate ......... 1.72 MB/s
            average access time ..... 26.8 msec
            average seek time ....... 18.5 msec
            track-track seek time .... 5.5 msec
            head switch time ......... 3.0 msec
            average latency .......... 8.33 msec
            rotational speed ...... 3600 RPM
            request rate ............ 39 I/Os per second at 50 msec response time
                                      46 I/Os per second at 100 msec response time

> It's interesting. At some time soon, may be early this summer,
> I'll give a VAX party where one of the highlights will be a
> race between my i486/33 and the 6460 in compiling something,
> there we can see if it's really just my perception that the
> 6460 is kind of slow for the price, even measured by past
> standards.

Wouldn't the 65xx or 66xx be more around the time of a 486? I don't know
when the 64xx came out but I thought it was earlier.  Are you planning to
run a *bsd on the 486 from the same timeframe as Ultrix 4.5 or one with a
scheduler and interrupt handler potentially more recently optimized?

Does your i486 feature long ribbon cable to dual ported IDE drives to
support its clustering?  If not, perhaps you were paying for features
other than speed, ones that Ultrix took less advantage of than VMS.





From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Wed Mar 20 20:43:07 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: Text-based PONG!
In-Reply-To: <200203201912.OAA12070@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Mar 20, 2 02:12:22 pm"
Message-ID: <200203210243.SAA31674@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> Check out http://www.karber.net/textbased/pong/ where you can play Pong with 
> *ANY* browser, including Lynx!

Hmm. Lynx's caching seems to mess with this. :-( HyperLink 2.5 seems to
work with it, though.

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Happiness is having a scratch for every itch. -- Ogden Nash ----------------

From wonko at arkham.ws  Wed Mar 20 20:45:33 2002
From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:36 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
In-Reply-To: ; from thompson@mail.athenet.net on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:41:59PM -0600
References: <3C991352.10403@aurora.regenstrief.org> 
Message-ID: <20020320214533.L3829@wintermute.arkham.ws>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:41:59PM -0600, Paul Thompson wrote:
> 
> Does your i486 feature long ribbon cable to dual ported IDE drives to
> support its clustering?  If not, perhaps you were paying for features
> other than speed, ones that Ultrix took less advantage of than VMS.

mmmm.  VMS.  see, now that is the operating system that is meant to run on
that machine.  match VMS on the 6000 vs BSD/i386 (or whatever) on the 486.
then you will see the real difference. ;)

and then throw in clustering just to show off exactly what the 486 can't do. :)

-brian

-- 
"Oh, shut up Buddha."  -Jesus Christ (South Park)

From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 20 21:15:12 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
References: <3C991352.10403@aurora.regenstrief.org>  <20020320214533.L3829@wintermute.arkham.ws>
Message-ID: <3C995040.9090100@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Brian Hechinger wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:41:59PM -0600, Paul Thompson wrote:
> 
>>Does your i486 feature long ribbon cable to dual ported IDE drives to
>>support its clustering?  If not, perhaps you were paying for features
>>other than speed, ones that Ultrix took less advantage of than VMS.
>>
> 
> mmmm.  VMS.  see, now that is the operating system that is meant to run on
> that machine.  match VMS on the 6000 vs BSD/i386 (or whatever) on the 486.
> then you will see the real difference. ;)
> 
> and then throw in clustering just to show off exactly what the 486 can't do. :)


Yes, so, let's suppose that ULTRIX didn't take full advantage
of the hardware, but nothing can get me back to using VMS. That's
for sure.

I'm certainly not complaining, just wondering and trying to
understand what exactly it is that made people pay millions
of dollars for a harware that was only a few years later
outpaced by the poor man's desktop ... ... ... now, I don't
know that yet, I actually don't believe it. I still suspect
that once the bottlenecks are uncovered, I can find
workarounds to coerce more of the idle hardware into working.

For instance, calling GNU make with the -j option and
calling gcc with the -pipe option appears to create a
lot more CPU load:

cpu  us%  ni%  sy%  id%    csw     sys     trap    intr     ipi   ttyin   ttyout
  1  30.3  0.0  6.4 63.2    89k    288k    300k    218k     13       3k    190k
  2  22.4  0.0  1.4 76.2    27k     84k     74k      0      24     481      22k
  3  20.5  0.0  1.4 78.1    28k     80k     70k      0      13     526      17k
  4  23.1  0.0  1.5 75.4    28k     86k     74k      0      25     531      23k
  5  21.2  0.0  1.5 77.3    29k     88k     72k      0      25     550      19k
  6  19.5  0.0  1.5 79.1    29k     86k     73k      0      26     600      25k

that looks better, at least the others are not
97% idle now.

regards,
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:50 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d02f$cba0adf0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:

> 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the mailing
> list settings....
>
> A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I think
> this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML posts here
> anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some form of HTML, so
> this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think it would make the
> very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?

  I like it.
  However.  It ain't enough.
  I agree with the rest that it would be better if our email addresses
weren't so obvious in the archives.
  I also don't think I like the instructions at:
    http://www.classiccmp.org/majordomo-help.txt
in Section V. on how to harvest a complete contact list.

> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
> non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that. This one I
> am not sure how to do off the top of my head, but would think it pretty
> straightforward. Comments?

  I'm OK with that.  I might also suggest an alternative; put a link on
the website to a dedicated "offers" address that propagates immediately
to the web-page.  That would exempt prospective donors from whatever
filtering we do on the list.  Interested members could check that page.

> 2) WRT the archives at www.classiccmp.org

  My favorite list software is ezmlm, but it's qmail-only (barf).  As I
said last week, I'll do anything I can to help with any solution you
choose.

	Doc

P.S. -- I have a 4U Aspen Alpine you can have.  275mHz 21064 Alpha.
Big, noisy bastard.

	Doc


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 20 21:26:58 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3C995302.FEB8A63C@jetnet.ab.ca>

"John R. Keys Jr." wrote:
> 
> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks

No but I got a deed for 2000 acres of prime Mars Estates. :)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From pechter at bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com  Wed Mar 20 21:29:14 2002
From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To:  from Tony Duell at "Mar 21, 2002 01:08:28
 am"
Message-ID: <200203210329.g2L3TEe25643@bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com>

> > 
> > 
> > I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
> > floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
> > installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
> > ;). Anyone have any more information about this beast? 
> 
> If it's the machine I think it is, it's closely related to the PDT11/150. 
> There is an LSI11 in there, but with some odd (by PDP11 standards) 
> peripherals.
> 
> I am not sure how the miniMINC differes from a PDT11/150. By rights, the 
> miniMINC should have some kind of 'lab' I/O (ADC, etc), but I have no 
> details of that.
> 
> -tony

The MiniMINC didn't have any lab I/O -- just the usual rs232 ports,
dual RX01-like 8 inch drives and RT11...

It did, however, run multiterminal genned RT and MultiUser Basic,
Fortran and Basic+ for RT11.

Bill


-- 
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
  bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 21:29:41 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> Or something to detect rotation of the roll (or rollers to detect removal 
> of the paper) and then work out how much paper has been used.

... and charge accordingly?


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 20 21:37:34 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> >   Press-fit roll spindle with shaft encoder attached to one serial port on
> > a PDP-11 running a backround job counting total turns, comparing against
> Why use a serial port for this? Why not one of the pulse-counter cards? I 
> think either the MNCKW (MInc clock module) or the KW11-K can be used for 
> this.

Wouldn't the guts from a current cheap mouse work nicely for that?
> >   Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
> > hands?
> Detect water flow (trivial), reduction in weight of the soap (so you know 
> some has been used), and (temporary) incresse in weight of the towel (so 
> you know it's absorbed some water). OK, it doesn't actually prove that 
> the soap/water were used on the person's _hands_, but...

measure increase in the turbidity, BOD5 (Biochemical Oxygen Demand),
D.O.(Dissolved Oxygen), and suspended and dissolved solids in the waste
water relative to the water supply.  Fecal coliforms would be overkill,
and hard to automate.

A company that I once worked for installed water quality monitoring
equipment at Coors'.  They were having major problems with calibration
until they realized that they had just found a BIG leak in one of the
tanks - saved the brewery many hundreds of gallons.


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 20 21:48:49 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Fwd: FS: oscope [Tektronics]
Message-ID: 

From: "Kaboozel" 
Subject: FS: oscope
Newsgroups: austin.forsale
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:54:16 GMT

Tektronics 453.  50MHz with 1 good 10x probe.  It's not pretty but it
works perfectly.

$100 obo.

send email to 
ctilbury (at) austin (dot) rr (dot) com

From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com  Wed Mar 20 21:51:15 2002
From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
In-Reply-To: <3C995040.9090100@aurora.regenstrief.org>
References: <3C991352.10403@aurora.regenstrief.org>
 
 <20020320214533.L3829@wintermute.arkham.ws>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320194752.02788980@209.185.79.193>

At 10:15 PM 3/20/02 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote:
I'm certainly not complaining, just wondering and trying to
>understand what exactly it is that made people pay millions
>of dollars for a harware that was only a few years later
>outpaced by the poor man's desktop ...

It wasn't. It does thing that today's desktops can't do. When is the last 
time you got 99.999% uptime out of a PC? Even though the theoretical 
bandwidth of the PCI bus was 120+ MB/sec systems rarely achieved > 1 - 2 
MB/sec sustained throughput.

>... ... now, I don't
>know that yet, I actually don't believe it. I still suspect
>that once the bottlenecks are uncovered, I can find
>workarounds to coerce more of the idle hardware into working.

Always true. Unlike the PC there are knobs for making things faster on the VAX.

>For instance, calling GNU make with the -j option and
>calling gcc with the -pipe option appears to create a
>lot more CPU load:
>
>cpu  us%  ni%  sy%  id%    csw     sys     trap    intr     ipi   ttyin 
>ttyout
>  1  30.3  0.0  6.4 
> 63.2    89k    288k    300k    218k     13       3k    190k
>  2  22.4  0.0  1.4 
> 76.2    27k     84k     74k      0      24     481      22k
>  3  20.5  0.0  1.4 
> 78.1    28k     80k     70k      0      13     526      17k
>  4  23.1  0.0  1.5 
> 75.4    28k     86k     74k      0      25     531      23k
>  5  21.2  0.0  1.5 
> 77.3    29k     88k     72k      0      25     550      19k
>  6  19.5  0.0  1.5 
> 79.1    29k     86k     73k      0      26     600      25k
>
>that looks better, at least the others are not
>97% idle now.

Doing a parallel make would be even faster.
--Chuck



From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 20 22:05:17 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT
References: 
Message-ID: <001201c1d08d$9cc66b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yeah ... the IIP and IIIP take the III/IIID memory expansions, though.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: HP LJ 2 mobo -> Apple LW 2 NT


> >
> > The thing to keep in mind, however, is that the ones that fit the II/IID
and
> > III/IIID will fit the comparable apple-compatibles, but they won't fit the
IIP
> > or IIIP, unless memory totally fails me.
>
> This is not too suprising as the IIP/IIIP are not SX engined. IIRC the
> engine in those printers is the LX, but I've never owned one.
>
> -tony
>
>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 20 22:40:09 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: DSQD Drives (Was: RE: Diags/Boot image for Altos 580)
Message-ID: <20020321044134.HKQS12718.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Joe 

>   Buy?  Who said anything about buying???  I can get all the drives that
I
> want for next to nothing. If I do pay for a PC, it's only about $1 each.

Joe, if you ever run out of sources (fat chance) I've got mountains of
5.25" drives you can have for five cents a pound.  Hell, I've got over 20
of 'em here at home!

>Most of the times that I use a 1.2M
> drive to read/write other formats, it fails. Even when it doesn't fail
the
> copies don't hold up well. I could NEVER read my SB 180 disks (QD) in a
1.2
> Mb drive.  In fact, I finally pulled the 1.2 Mb drive out of my main PC
and
> put a 360k drive back into it since the 5 1/4" drive was used almost
> entirely for reading/writing old disks.

Yup, I did the same thing on my main box, and getting rid of that 1.2MB
drive has really simplified my life.

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 20 22:43:28 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020321044452.RYVL19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Ben Franchuk 

> I kind of thought the ZX81 was a VW Bug :)

Some would say more like a Morris Minor.  And BTW the Bug makes a lousy
doorstop ;>)

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 20 23:00:00 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020321050125.FGXL8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) 

> Is there a Linux port for the ZX81?

No, it doesn't even have a serial port (yuk yuk).  

If you'd like to turn your favorite 486 into a ZX81 there are ZX81
emulators for Linux, but to my knowledge no one has even entertained the
idea of doing some flavor of Unix on ZX81 hardware.

Hmm, now thatcha mention it, Linux makes more sense than Windows or GEM,
CP/M's already been done, VMS ain't happening here, and I *really* don't
want to port MS-DOS ;>)

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 20 23:31:25 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <20020321053250.EIJT28778.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Ben Franchuk 

> Glen Goodwin wrote:
> 
> > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > toilet seat.
> 
> That is easy -- a micro switch ...

Not as easy as you might think.  You want it to flush when you get up, but
not when you sit down, or when the seat is unoccupied . . .

> now how do you tell if the ROLL is
> almost empty ?

This one *is* easy:  the holder must be spring-loaded.  As the amount of
paper on the roll decreases, and the roll becomes lighter, the roll and
holder will be pulled toward the spring, eventually closing a micro switch
;>)

Glen
0/0


From univac2 at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 20 23:53:59 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
Message-ID: 

on 3/20/02 8:41 PM, John R. Keys Jr. at jrkeys@concentric.net wrote:

> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks

Try www.oneshare.com. They have COMPAQ and HP.

--
Owen Robertson


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 21 01:21:33 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: <20020321053250.EIJT28778.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C9989FD.F75ADBAE@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:
> 
> > From: Ben Franchuk 
> 
> > Glen Goodwin wrote:
> >
> > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including the
> > > toilet seat.
> >
> > That is easy -- a micro switch ...
> 
> Not as easy as you might think.  You want it to flush when you get up, but
> not when you sit down, or when the seat is unoccupied . . .

If you notice the above design is for the 'Seat' not for flushing. For
flushing
you have a volume sensor with the seat. A sound sensor could be handy
for the FAN. :)
I guess I will have to buy blue 'hello kitty' bathroom paper and have a
sensor for the
white tube. Now a NEW windows machine seems to be perfect for this
job... no wait that is computer to handle shitty jobs not a shitty job
of a computer. :)

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Mar 21 01:31:23 2002
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
In-Reply-To: <3C995040.9090100@aurora.regenstrief.org>
References: <3C995040.9090100@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <34432.64.169.63.74.1016695883.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

> just wondering and trying to
> understand what exactly it is that made people pay millions
> of dollars for a harware that was only a few years later
> outpaced by the poor man's desktop ...

You've answered your own question.




From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 21 01:41:07 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: <20020321050125.FGXL8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C998E93.E3EFD466@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:
 
> Hmm, now thatcha mention it, Linux makes more sense than Windows or GEM,
> CP/M's already been done, VMS ain't happening here, and I *really* don't
> want to port MS-DOS ;>)

I liked what little I used of GEM. M$ did some nasty tricks in making
sure other 'window' like programs could NOT run well under DOS.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Mar 21 01:43:17 2002
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320194752.02788980@209.185.79.193>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320194752.02788980@209.185.79.193>
Message-ID: <34454.64.169.63.74.1016696597.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

> It wasn't. It does thing that today's desktops can't do. When is the
> last time you got 99.999% uptime out of a PC?

Not counting an eight-hour power failure, one of my PC-based servers
has had under two minutes of unscheduled downtime in seven years of
24x7 operation.  That's better than 99.9999%.

Of course, it's not running Windows.

If I were running a mission-critical application, it would be easy
enough to outfit it with a backup generator so that even the whims
of PG&E wouldn't cause me grief.  But the downtime due to PG&E
problems is certainly not the fault of the PC, and would have bit
me even if I'd been running a "real computer".

> Even though the
> theoretical  bandwidth of the PCI bus was 120+ MB/sec systems rarely
> achieved > 1 - 2  MB/sec sustained throughput.

I don't know what systems those were, but my first 486 PCI system
routinely got sustained PCI throughput of over 15 MB/second, between
disk, ethernet, and display.

Even many ISA bus systems could sustain over 4 MB/second.




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Thu Mar 21 02:07:59 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
In-Reply-To: Gunther Schadow 
        "Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke]." (Mar 20, 18:05)
References: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <10203210807.ZM14861@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 20, 18:05, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> Hihi, our little training in risk-assessment tonight is the following
> sippet of a crontab entry, scheduled to run dayly around midnight:
>
> (cd /usr/preserve ; find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
>
> why is this a bad idea and what happened to me last night as I was
> playing with my VAX6460?

Because Bad Things happen if the cd fails...

> Answer: the /usr/preserve was a symlink to /usr/var/preserve which
> didn't exist. What happened next?

> All files that were not accessed for more than 7 days were being deleted

The correct way to do someting like this in a cron entry is to check the
return code from the cd command, and only execute the rest of the command
if the cd succeeds, eg

 (cd /usr/preserve && find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From foo at siconic.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:48 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Plexus minicomputer?
In-Reply-To: <005b01c1d046$3350b560$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote:

> It's a Multibus, Unix-based system running on multiple Z8000 processors.
> The October 1983 BYTE has a little info on it on page 140, if you happen
> to have that issue lying around.

I picked it up yesterday.  I was mostly trying to determine it's size and
heft, as the guy who had it characterized it as being a behemoth.  Turns
out I was able to lift it into my SUV after taking off the skins and
removing the 8" hard drives.

It's a model P75.  I was under the impression that it was 68000 based but
being Z8000 based makes it much cooler.  This machine was going to be used
to create a trading floor for the seafood market, but the company went
bust before they got very far.

I have the marketing literature for the machine but haven't had a chance
to go through it yet.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Thu Mar 21 04:47:33 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
References: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org>
 <10203210807.ZM14861@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C99BA45.C8914340@Vishay.com>


Pete Turnbull wrote:
> The correct way to do someting like this in a cron entry is to check the
> return code from the cd command, and only execute the rest of the command
> if the cd succeeds, eg
> 
>  (cd /usr/preserve && find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)

Hm. I'm not a Unix guru, so it's well possible I'm missing something
here. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Why don't you just

	find /usr/preserve -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;

- is it just because you wouldn't have the ;) at the end of the line
then? ;-)

(With "my" VMS, I'd do a DEL/BEF="-7-" tempdisk:[tempdir...]*.*.* - and
the above find appears to me like the proper translation.)

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From timwa at snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 06:10:03 2002
From: timwa at snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk (Tim)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: list changes
Message-ID: 

Pete Turnbull wrote:
> On Mar 20, 12:59, David Woyciesjes wrote:
>> From:    Jay West
>>> B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list
>>> from non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that.
>>
>>	Another good idea.
>>
>>	Can't the system compare the From or ReplyTo field against the
>> subscriber list, and take action from there?
>>
> Good point.  There are almost certainly people on the list who've
> subscribed from a different address than the one they have the mail sent
> to.  Not insurmountable, but it does need consideraton.

While we're on the subject, I do think the [OL] idea is a good one,
but I just wanted to add my tuppence worth on the subject...


The address I post from isn't always the same as the one I read it from;
I tend to choose the address to post from (work or home) as appropriate
to the content of the message...  If we go with the tagging off-list
posts, it would be nice if there was a way of registering additional
'posting addresses' as well as the subscription address.

Not essential, of course, but would be handy (would be more
essential if we got to the stage of actively blocking off-list posts.)



Incidentally, I'm all in favour of the blocking HTML, by the way...

Cheers,
Tim.

-- 
Tim Walls at home in Croydon     -     Reply to tim@snowgoons.fsnet.co.uk


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 21 06:32:01 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020320173401.36519.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C99E0D1.19226.4D77618E@localhost>

> > > Isn't using a PDP-11 as perhipheral processor for a ZX81
> > > a bit out of scope ? 

> Why?  Isn't a PDP-11 adequate?

> 30 years ago, at GSFC, we used a 360 for I/O for a 7094.

Yeah, wasn't the goal to pack as much load on the Z80 ?
Furthermore, we should be serious and consider comercial
posibillities - and if we ant to sell our UDP management
system, it has to go into one of these little add on
packages to be plugged inbetween lots of other such boxes
into a ZX81. So a full figured PDP is out of scope (*).

Gruss
H.

(*) Well, on a second thought, we could fit a ZX81 to QBus
Interface into the little box, and have a cable running over
to our extended interface rack (aka PDP 11).

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 21 06:36:41 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Toilet Processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
References:  from "John Lawson" at Mar 20, 2 01:39:15 am
Message-ID: <3C99E1E9.5626.4D7BA9CF@localhost>

> >   Now how do you tell if the previous occupant actually washed their
> > hands?

> Detect water flow (trivial), reduction in weight of the soap (so you know 
> some has been used), and (temporary) incresse in weight of the towel (so 
> you know it's absorbed some water). OK, it doesn't actually prove that 
> the soap/water were used on the person's _hands_, but...

Tony you're a genius. The TTP (Towel Tester Procedure) is a great
enhancement of our UDP/MS. If the towel is now mounted far enough
away from the sink to avoude that the TU may just wet it directly,
the system will be greatly enhanced.

One more thing, did we already plan for a switch to check if the
toilet has been flushed at all ?

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 21 07:10:48 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: stock certificates  was Re: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <3C995302.FEB8A63C@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
 <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
 <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020321081048.008029f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 08:26 PM 3/20/02 -0700, you wrote:
>"John R. Keys Jr." wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
>> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
>> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks
>
>No but I got a deed for 2000 acres of prime Mars Estates. :)


  My dad still has a deed to one square inch of Alaska.  I'm sure you ALL
remember those! :-)


   John,  send me your snail mail address. I have something that I think
you'll like.


    Joe


From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co  Thu Mar 21 07:26:45 2002
From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020321082645.0162ea30@pop1.epm.net.co>

At 06:41 PM 3/20/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually, the paper handling system in some of the old Panasonic printers
>could be adapted.  It would reel back in what the cat had taken, and then
>advance just enough to provide a grip for pulling.

I like this.  And, how about "classiccmp designer toilet paper" with
ms , wicktel and other loathed entities' corporate imagery on
it?  :-)


carlos.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez   carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 07:34:10 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
Message-ID: <002201c1d0dd$16ec0180$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Tony Duell 
>> 
>> I've just got hold of a DEC MiniMINC - supposedly an LSI/11 woth 2 8"
>> floppy drives (I've not had a good look at it yet as I've spent all day
>> installing Solaris 8 on the SPARCstation 10 I picked up at the same time
>> ;). Anyone have any more information about this beast? 
>
>If it's the machine I think it is, it's closely related to the PDT11/150. 
>There is an LSI11 in there, but with some odd (by PDP11 standards) 
>peripherals.

Nope, It's an LSI-11/02 Qbus machine woith a small cage and rack
and RX01(maybe an 02).  You need Qbus for the varions analog IO
and digitial IO cards.

>I am not sure how the miniMINC differes from a PDT11/150. By rights, the 
>miniMINC should have some kind of 'lab' I/O (ADC, etc), but I have no 
>details of that.

The PDT11/150 has no user bus and the oly IO is serial.  It is however 
the same LSI-11 chip set but no provision for the EIS/FIS.  Yes, I know 
you can piggy back one of the microms to do that but the board only 
has 4 40 pin sockets that are filled where the LSI-11/03 Qbus board has 5.


Allison


From at258 at osfn.org  Thu Mar 21 07:37:00 2002
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Plexus minicomputer?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


Sounds like something written by Henry miller.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:

> 
> Anyone know about Plexus minicomputers?  I am going to pick one up soon.
> I'm told it's about 3-4 feet high by 2 feet wide by 5-6 feet deep, and
> heavy.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org
> 
>  * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
> 
> 

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island 

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 07:40:49 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
Message-ID: <002901c1d0de$04786240$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Gunther Schadow 

>Yes, so, let's suppose that ULTRIX didn't take full advantage
>of the hardware, but nothing can get me back to using VMS. That's
>for sure.

Ultrix was not nearly as well developed as VMS for multiple CPU 
and cluster configs.  Available user performance on a 6k system 
with decent disks was very high under VMS but under ultrix is 
was a less appealing system.  I'd used  an identical pair while at 
DEC with both ultrix and VMS and the ultrix system was a bit doggy
even at lighter user loads (no one liked it).

Comparing it to a 486... no contest with a pot load of users.  the 
i486 does not have the system robustness and IO capability.


Allison


From francois at auradon.com  Thu Mar 21 07:43:45 2002
From: francois at auradon.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Text-based PONG!
References: <200203201912.OAA12070@wordstock.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c1d0de$6c9c8a40$0264640a@auradon.com>

I wish they had an e-mail version of that so we can play two players....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Pope" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:12 AM
Subject: Text-based PONG!


>
> Check out http://www.karber.net/textbased/pong/ where you can play Pong
with
> *ANY* browser, including Lynx!
>
> Enjoy!,
>
> Bryan
>
> P.S.  I did not have anything to do with the creation of this masterpiece.
>
>


From at258 at osfn.org  Thu Mar 21 07:44:06 2002
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <20020320232300.GC5579@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: 


The liklihood is that Compaq will be dismantled as a result, and that, in 
itself seems a decent enough reason for the merger.


On 20 Mar 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:

> Quothe Joseph.Pollizzi@encompassus.org, from writings of Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 03:45:49PM -0600:
> > Hewlett-Packard and Compaq Computer Corporation have announced that they
> > both believe that they have enough shareholder votes to approve the merger.
> 
> DEC's destruction began when DEC was palmerized into a ghost of it's
> former self and sold into slavery to Microsoft.  Then much damage to
> this once great computer company, DEC, was done by Compaq (a wannabe
> computer company that never made real computers, and destroyed an
> acquisition, DEC, that did), and, now, this appears to be little more
> than the nails being hammered into the coffin of what was once Digital
> Equipment Corporation.  
> 
> R.D.D.
> 
> -- 
> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
> All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
> rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
> http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
> 

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island 

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 07:44:46 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
Message-ID: <004201c1d0de$91bd3d60$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Glen Goodwin 

>> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) 
>
>> Is there a Linux port for the ZX81?

No but, you might run UZI unix on it.  Oh< you want a Zx81 sim?
Why? the real thing is far more fun.

Allison


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 07:49:44 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: VAX 6460 being slow, IO bottlenecks and SMP woes ...
Message-ID: <004f01c1d0df$42e25c60$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Eric Smith 

>Not counting an eight-hour power failure, one of my PC-based servers
>has had under two minutes of unscheduled downtime in seven years of
>24x7 operation.  That's better than 99.9999%.
>
>Of course, it's not running Windows.

I have winder boxen that do that as servers.  As desktops forget it, Word 
dies and takes the OS at times.  Never seen that on VMS.

>I don't know what systems those were, but my first 486 PCI system
>routinely got sustained PCI throughput of over 15 MB/second, between
>disk, ethernet, and display.

and the processor was doing something useful?

>Even many ISA bus systems could sustain over 4 MB/second.

Yes, it could.  Shame the CPU was idle or doing just the block move.

I've seen Qbus systems (PDP-11) sustain levels like that but, the 
CPU was useful.

PCs, and their busses didn't allow for concurrentcy of operations 
especially ISA.

Allison


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Thu Mar 21 07:52:03 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: stock certificates  was Re: Destruction of DEC
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default> <3.0.6.32.20020321081048.008029f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c1d0df$95afdee0$ec8f70d8@default>

Thanks it's John Keys, 15827 Thistledew Drive, Houston, TX 77082
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:10 AM
Subject: stock certificates was Re: Destruction of DEC


> At 08:26 PM 3/20/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >"John R. Keys Jr." wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or
sell
> >> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I
will
> >> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks
> >
> >No but I got a deed for 2000 acres of prime Mars Estates. :)
>
>
>   My dad still has a deed to one square inch of Alaska.  I'm sure you
ALL
> remember those! :-)
>
>
>    John,  send me your snail mail address. I have something that I
think
> you'll like.
>
>
>     Joe
>
>


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 21 07:53:02 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: stock certificates  was Re: Destruction of DEC
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	 <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	 <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default> <3.0.6.32.20020321081048.008029f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3C99E5BE.3C086BF8@jetnet.ab.ca>

Joe wrote:
>   My dad still has a deed to one square inch of Alaska.  I'm sure you ALL
> remember those! :-)

Thats a good deal ... you only have about 50 square feet of land that is
not ice, bush or rock.:)

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Thu Mar 21 08:02:24 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A848@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks

I'd like one too, but I have in mind integrating it
with the 

    Re: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)

thread in some creative fashion...

;)
 

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Thu Mar 21 08:07:25 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A849@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> The liklihood is that Compaq will be dismantled as a result, and that, in 
> itself seems a decent enough reason for the merger.

Oh well. Never liked them, even though they ran my
software at their Houston distribution center (I
guess they were our largest client).

-dq


 

From Mzthompson at aol.com  Thu Mar 21 08:22:49 2002
From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <20.25ce931a.29cb46b9@aol.com>

Jay wrote:

A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content.

I'll vote for that.

B) I also like the 'self-policing' idea of making posts to the list from
non-subscribers get a subject tag of [OL] or something like that.

I'll vote for that too.

My two cents, or actually votes,
Mike

From msell at ontimesupport.com  Thu Mar 21 08:38:59 2002
From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: stock certificates  was Re: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <3C99E5BE.3C086BF8@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
 <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
 <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
 <3.0.6.32.20020321081048.008029f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321083837.0370aff8@127.0.0.1>


Do you have the mineral rights to that one square inch?


: )


         - Matt


At 06:53 AM 3/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Joe wrote:
> >   My dad still has a deed to one square inch of Alaska.  I'm sure you ALL
> > remember those! :-)
>
>Thats a good deal ... you only have about 50 square feet of land that is
>not ice, bush or rock.:)
>
>--
>Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
>www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html



Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066

Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html.


"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/7298dbac/attachment.html
From msell at ontimesupport.com  Thu Mar 21 08:47:22 2002
From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A849@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321084220.0375a598@127.0.0.1>



It's my opinion that Compaq will be pissed away by HP just as Compaq pissed 
away DEC.

I never really did *love* Compaq, mainly because they are a PC company. 
They make good PC's, but I hate PC's.

The real problem is that several thousand employees are going to get the 
axe because of a power trip by an HP CEO.


I love to see someone who actually believes that the "new" HP will compete 
with IBM.


         - Matt


At 09:07 AM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > The liklihood is that Compaq will be dismantled as a result, and that, in
> > itself seems a decent enough reason for the merger.
>
>Oh well. Never liked them, even though they ran my
>software at their Houston distribution center (I
>guess they were our largest client).
>
>-dq
>
>
>



Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066

Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html.


"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/7d57f077/attachment.html
From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Thu Mar 21 08:50:19 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Copy II Plus Apple ProDos
Message-ID: 

I picked up a copy of Central Point Software Copy II Plus ProDOS/DOS
Utilities, Version 9 (1989) at my local thrift shop yesterday -- didn't
realize it was for Apple at the time. I don't need it, so if anyone wants
it, they can have it for $4.00 in the US (what I paid plus shipping);
international shipping will be more. It will work on an enhanced IIe, a IIc,
or IIGS, all with 128K and 80 column card. Includes 5.25" and 3.5" disks;
looks unused.

Bob
robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com

From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Thu Mar 21 09:10:50 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Handyman specials
Message-ID: 

I have the following junk^H^H^H^H R@RE computers for anyone who wants them.
Pick up in Chicago or pay shipping costs. Most are untested and might not
work, all are dumpster finds:

(in order from largest/heaviest to smallest/lightest)
HP Portable Vectra
Toshiba 3100e/40 (power light comes on, but does not boot)
NEC MultiSpeed EL
TI TravelMate 4000M (color LCD, 486 DX4/75, but was found partially
disassembled, so most likely does not work)
AST PowerExec 3/25SL (no hard drive)
Tandon NB386/SX (has loose/cracked hinge, but is the only one with its power
brick)
Kenitec (no model number; probably XT compatible)

I also have an NEC MultiSpin SCSI CR-ROM reader, external.

Again, I don't know if any of these work, but if you've ever wanted to tear
apart a portable, or play with an LCD screen, they might fit the bill.

Bob
robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com

From mrbill at mrbill.net  Thu Mar 21 09:33:41 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
References: <20020320.180637.-256065.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <001101c1d07b$aeeb5e20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <020501c1d081$ea02dfa0$408c70d8@default>
Message-ID: <20020321153341.GK20576@mrbill.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:41:32PM -0600, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:
> Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
> cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
> frame them and put up with the others. Thanks

www.oneshare.com

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From mrbill at mrbill.net  Thu Mar 21 09:34:57 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A848@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A848@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <20020321153457.GL20576@mrbill.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 09:02:24AM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > Anyone have a stock certificate from COMPAQ they want give away or sell
> > cheap?  I need one for my collection and a HP would be nice also. I will
> > frame them and put up with the others. Thanks
> I'd like one too, but I have in mind integrating it
> with the 
>     Re: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
> thread in some creative fashion...

I keep joking that we need to go back to the datacenter and put up, on the
Alpha boxes:

crossed-out DIGITAL logo
crossed-out Compaq logo
crayon-drawn HP logo

8-)

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Thu Mar 21 09:38:38 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467799@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

> From: 	Ethan Dicks
> 
> --- David Woyciesjes  wrote:
> > 	Dave - what/where are the web mail services that don't send html
> > mail?
> 
> I'm not Dave, but I am sending from a web-mail service - Yahoo!  Plain
> text.  You can send HTML mail, but it's not by default.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> 
But I just don't trust Yahoo. Not sure why, just a gut feeling.

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 10:09:29 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
Message-ID: <200203211609.g2LG9TW14713@narnia.int.dittman.net>

I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761

I am not associated in any way with the seller, I found this
looking for tape drives(!).
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 21 10:20:41 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References:  <20020320232300.GC5579@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <013b01c1d0f4$592cf240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

As for the title of this thread...

Has anyone documented the fall of DEC?
I mean, most of us know it, but it's just in our memories.
It could be culled from searching 3++GByte of comp.sys.dec, 
    but who has the time?
If I recall correctly, it played out like so:

    Field service group transitioned from chip level responsibility
        to board level.   (resulting in poorer svc performance)
    Ken Olsen replaced by Robert Palmer.(strained)
    Strategic shift to the Alpha processor.  (mostly succesful)
    Corporate main bought by Compaq.
        (This for the sales & service groups, already in trouble)
    Merger layoffs.     (inevitable, unfortunately)
    Microprocessor operations sold to Microsoft.
        (a wintel coup for Intel, carried out by MS)
    VAX HW architecture phased out (to Alpha) while under
        Compaq.  (not politically motivated)
     VMS operating system future development cut.
     Alpha chip development cut.    (in pure resignation to Intel)
     Management control gained by main DEC competitor HP.

Corrections and Additions welcomed.

John A.



From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1516.monmouth.com  Thu Mar 21 10:28:29 2002
From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1516.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <002201c1d0dd$16ec0180$3a7b7b7b@ajp> from Allison at "Mar 21, 2002
 08:34:10 am"
Message-ID: <200203211628.g2LGST827170@bg-tc-ppp1418.monmouth.com>

> The PDT11/150 has no user bus and the oly IO is serial.  It is however 
> the same LSI-11 chip set but no provision for the EIS/FIS.  Yes, I know 
> you can piggy back one of the microms to do that but the board only 
> has 4 40 pin sockets that are filled where the LSI-11/03 Qbus board has 5.
> 
> 
> Allison

Actually  there was a dual microm that would give the PDT11/150
EIS and FIS...

I had it installed in my box.

Bill
-- 
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
  bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 21 10:42:46 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:37 2005
Subject: HP-IB 
Message-ID: 

  I grabbed this yesterday at goodwill.  It looks like an
HP-IB/floppy-IDE interface, but I can't find any references.
  HP model appears to be:
09L Rev C
09153-66511

or

2815

or

0TF0C07

or

RSWKC3

  The card has a bulkhead plate w/ HP-IB connector, address dial switch
0-9, and configuration dial switch 0-9.
  PCB itself is about 10" by 3" with a 1.5" by 3" cutout.  There is a
34-pin male and a 40-pin male header and dip switches:

		 TEST <--> NORM
		    B <--> C
		30/40 <--> 10/20
	 BOTH <
		10/30 <--> 20/40
	    NO FLOPPY <--> FLOPPY

  What is it?

	Doc


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Thu Mar 21 10:43:57 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Copy II Plus Apple ProDos
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9A0DCD.607F2D82@ccp.com>

"Feldman, Robert" wrote:
> 
> I picked up a copy of Central Point Software Copy II Plus ProDOS/DOS
> Utilities, Version 9 (1989) at my local thrift shop yesterday -- didn't
> realize it was for Apple at the time. I don't need it, so if anyone wants
> it, they can have it for $4.00 in the US (what I paid plus shipping);
> international shipping will be more. It will work on an enhanced IIe, a IIc,
> or IIGS, all with 128K and 80 column card. Includes 5.25" and 3.5" disks;
> looks unused.
> 
> Bob
> robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com


I could use that . . . shoot me an adress off-list and I'll get a check
in the mail.

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 21 10:44:47 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To: <200203211609.g2LG9TW14713@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:

> I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761

  Ooowwww....

  That's the ultimate laptop.  Unfortunately, this one will likely get
well into 4 figures.

	Doc


From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 21 10:46:30 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References: <200203211609.g2LG9TW14713@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <015701c1d0f7$f4074060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> Re: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
  (603e at 3% of 1996 MSRP)

You should go at least to see the pictures.
It almost looks like it has an AWACS antenna
growing out of the lid.   Say Luxoboat?

John A.



From fernande at internet1.net  Thu Mar 21 11:00:43 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References: <200203211609.g2LG9TW14713@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A11BB.7D9209F9@internet1.net>

Eric,

Isn't it amazing what you find when your looking for something else :-)


Eric Dittman wrote:
> 
> I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761
> 
> I am not associated in any way with the seller, I found this
> looking for tape drives(!).
> --
> Eric Dittman
> dittman@dittman.net
> Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 11:03:25 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 21, 2002 10:44:47 AM
Message-ID: <200203211703.g2LH3Pa15009@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> > I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761
> 
>   Ooowwww....
> 
>   That's the ultimate laptop.  Unfortunately, this one will likely get
> well into 4 figures.

the BuyItNow price is $499, IIRC.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From pat at purdueriots.com  Thu Mar 21 11:10:36 2002
From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Yeah, that'd look nice next to my IBM Personal Computer PowerSeries 850...
but I'm afarid I just spent all the money I'd have for a new box for a
while on something more 'useful'.

-- Pat

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:
>
> > I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761
>
>   Ooowwww....
>
>   That's the ultimate laptop.  Unfortunately, this one will likely get
> well into 4 figures.
>
> 	Doc
>


From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 11:53:09 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To: <3C9A11BB.7D9209F9@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 21, 2002 12:00:43 PM
Message-ID: <200203211753.g2LHr9T15230@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Isn't it amazing what you find when your looking for something else :-)

I've found some things by accident that turned out to be
great deals as nobody else found them.  :-)

> > I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
> > 
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761
> > 
> > I am not associated in any way with the seller, I found this
> > looking for tape drives(!).
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Thu Mar 21 11:54:02 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B53@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net]

> From: Ethan Dicks 
> >I know that some people (very few) have technological 
> impediments that
> >force them into HTML (Outlook, etc., I think).

> This is bunk!  Outlook can and does post without html, it's 
> easy to turn
> off.

Ok, I'll agree that it can and does, since I am
unfortunately forced to use it by corporate edict. :(

I will argue that it's not "easy" to turn off.  "Easy"
would be a button that says "don't ever post a message
with HTML."  There is no such option.  It must be turned
off as a default, and then still on a per message basis
every time you don't want to respond to somebody who's
used HTML with another HTML message.

So I will agree completely with you if you will replace
"easy" with "cumbersome at best."

Chris

Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Thu Mar 21 12:08:55 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Copy II Plus Apple ProDos
Message-ID: 

I flipped a (tetrahedral) coin, and the software goes to Gene (who by
coincidence, happened also to be the first to respond).



From cisin at xenosoft.com  Thu Mar 21 12:37:33 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020321082645.0162ea30@pop1.epm.net.co>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote:
> I like this.  And, how about "classiccmp designer toilet paper" with
> ms , wicktel and other loathed entities' corporate imagery on
> it?  :-)

Why not save the cost of commercial toilet paper and load it with Compaq
and HP stock certificates?


From hans at Huebner.ORG  Thu Mar 21 12:38:40 2002
From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: SGI Dials & Buttons and no P/S
Message-ID: <20020321193809.V6182-100000@mail.huebner.org>

Hi there,

I've recently acquired a set of SGI dials and buttons.  These are two units:
The dialbox has SGI P/N 9980992 and is manufactured by Danaher Controls with
Model # DLS80-1022.  The buttonbox has SGI P/N 9980991 and is manufactured by
Advanced Input Devices with Model # CMN B018B.

I have not received any cabling with the units and also I have no power
supply.  Using google, I could not find any useful information on how these
units are expected to be supplied with power.  There are some references to
SGI boxes which provide for power supply on some serial ports, but these where
pretty unspecific and did not reference these exact models.

Does anyone reading this have a set of these and can help me with getting the
pinout and the expected voltages for the power supply for these units?

Thanks in advance,
Hans


-- 
                                       finger hans@huebner.org for details


From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Mar 21 12:48:10 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020321082645.0162ea30@pop1.epm.net.co>
References: 
 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321134810.01557598@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Carlos Murillo may have mentioned these words:
>At 06:41 PM 3/20/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Actually, the paper handling system in some of the old Panasonic printers
>>could be adapted.  It would reel back in what the cat had taken, and then
>>advance just enough to provide a grip for pulling.
>
>I like this.  And, how about "classiccmp designer toilet paper" with
>ms , wicktel and other loathed entities' corporate imagery on
>it?  :-)

Nah... too obvious. Just make it look like greenbar - that would be cool!

I remember seeing greenbar, pinfed *bedsheets* a long time ago... I wonder
if any company's still making them. ;-)

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From fernande at internet1.net  Thu Mar 21 12:51:57 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Copy II Plus Apple ProDos
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9A2BCD.CC94DE43@internet1.net>

Ok, thanks any way.

Chad

"Feldman, Robert" wrote:
> 
> I flipped a (tetrahedral) coin, and the software goes to Gene (who by
> coincidence, happened also to be the first to respond).
> 
> 

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Thu Mar 21 13:08:26 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: OT and Fluff: Dell Computer shuts down.
Message-ID: 

www.theonion.com/onion3810/corporation_reaches_goal.html

;-)


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:15:48 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <200203210329.g2L3TEe25643@bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Mar 20, 2 10:29:14 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 549 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/37047bc3/attachment.ksh
From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Thu Mar 21 13:17:13 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: 
 
 <20020320232300.GC5579@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
 <013b01c1d0f4$592cf240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C9A31B9.6E89AF68@Vishay.com>


John Allain wrote:
> If I recall correctly, it played out like so:
>
...
>      VMS operating system future development cut.
...
> Corrections and Additions welcomed.

Huh? - How does cutting development match what is at this very moment
available at

	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm

where they detail the migration to Itanium and assure us about what in
detail will be ported (and what will not be, see slide #6).

They also give details about what is in current and soon-to-be released
versions of OpenVMS (slide #8).

So, I really hope there's a good bunch of time left until end-of-life
for VMS! :-)

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:21:53 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To:  from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 20, 2 07:37:34 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1343 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/4bbeeb63/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:24:36 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020321050125.FGXL8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 21, 2 00:00:00 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 501 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/70039645/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:29:31 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: <20020321053250.EIJT28778.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 21, 2 00:31:25 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1100 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/7d9ec8ce/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:44:00 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <002201c1d0dd$16ec0180$3a7b7b7b@ajp> from "Allison" at Mar 21, 2 08:34:10 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 806 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/b3c4ce4d/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 13:56:24 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: HP-IB 
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc Shipley" at Mar 21, 2 10:42:46 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1876 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020321/34be026b/attachment.ksh
From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 14:31:45 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: HP 3000 gear in Bristol, UK
Message-ID: <3C9A4331.F079DFD6@gifford.co.uk>


I've just been shown a load of HP 3000 and HP 1000 gear which
is about to be thrown out, located in Bristol (UK).  This
list is approximately what's available:

HP 3000 Series II
7970 B Digital Tape Unit
7970 E Digital Tape Unit
Metier 50 Megabyte Data Storage Unit (disk)

HP 3000 Series III
97935 top loading disk drive
7970 E Digital Tape Unit

HP 1000 E-series computer "Artemis System"
12979 B I/O Extender
7906 Disk Drive
13037 Disk Controller

2648 A Graphics Terminal
2631 B Line Printer
unknown modem
2392 Terminal (qty 3)
Flexible disk drive for HP desktop calculator (qty 2)
Falco Terminal
91148 Floppy Disk Drive
Alignment packs for HP 7905/7906 disk drives

They want to clear out the storage space quite soon, and if
anybody wants any of it, we'll have to arrange something quite
quickly.  Most of the computers are in 19-inch racks of about
5-foot (1.8metre) height, but some of them are double-width
racks.  Basically, you'll need a van to move them!

Any takers?

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Mar 21 14:33:10 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <200203210329.g2L3TEe25643@bg-tc-ppp24.monmouth.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020321143155.02437cc0@pc>

At 10:29 PM 3/20/2002 -0500, Bill Pechter wrote:
>The MiniMINC didn't have any lab I/O -- just the usual rs232 ports,
>dual RX01-like 8 inch drives and RT11...
>It did, however, run multiterminal genned RT and MultiUser Basic,
>Fortran and Basic+ for RT11.

I used one during the summer of '82 as a smart terminal, and 
also for running BASIC.  A nice little box.

- John


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 21 14:39:48 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
Message-ID: <001401c1d118$8c9ffcc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Tony Duell 

>But the MiniMINC I came across looked just like a PDT11/150.
>Approximately cubical, with 2 8" drives one on top of the other. I didn't
>have a chance to dismantle it, so I have no idea what the internals were
>like, but I'd be suprised if there were Qbus slots in it.

It's a plain PDT11/150, as a MINC it's useless as there are none of the
usual
lab IO items that made the larger QBUS ones useful.  One exception is if
your systems talk via serial IO then it was a pretty useful box.

Now the PDT11/130 (same thing with TU58 instead of RX01 similar) could
be used the same way... I think not.

Allison


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Thu Mar 21 15:07:36 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A854@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> >I like this.  And, how about "classiccmp designer toilet paper" with
> >ms , wicktel and other loathed entities' corporate imagery on
> >it?  :-)
> 
> Nah... too obvious. Just make it look like greenbar - that 
> would be cool!
> 
> I remember seeing greenbar, pinfed *bedsheets* a long time 
> ago... I wonder if any company's still making them. ;-)

If not, someone has a lot of it in stock...

I bought a brand new box of 20lb greenbar at Office Despot
in June 2001 for $38.00.

-dq

From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Mar 21 15:42:06 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A854@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Douglas Quebbeman may have mentioned these words:
> -- and I said originally --
>> I remember seeing greenbar, pinfed *bedsheets* a long time 
>> ago... I wonder if any company's still making them. ;-)

>If not, someone has a lot of it in stock...
>
>I bought a brand new box of 20lb greenbar at Office Despot
>in June 2001 for $38.00.

I was really talking about the bedsheets - I think they'd be a cool part of
'retro dream-computing...' and might be quite rare nowadays...

I have a color lazer with serial/parallel/ethernet ports, full Postscript 2
capability, 2G SCSI hard drive, and 112Meg RAM - I can print from most any
classic machine I have (some multiport, like my Tandy 200, can print on the
serial & parallel interfaces... ;-) so actual greenbar paper isn't ezactly
at the top of my list...

The only classic machine I can't get to print is my MicroVAX 3100/m38 - and
that's only because I can't get it to talk TCP/IP... :-( 

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 16:21:59 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 

	For those that might be interested in it, there's a VRE01-AA 
on eBay right now with a 'buy-it-now' price of $100.

	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011589633

	As usual, I have no connection with the auction, I'm just 
passing the info on in case anyone here is interested.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Thu Mar 21 16:30:37 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A858@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Rumor has it that Douglas Quebbeman may have mentioned these words:
> > -- and I said originally --
> >> I remember seeing greenbar, pinfed *bedsheets* a long time 
> >> ago... I wonder if any company's still making them. ;-)
> 
> >If not, someone has a lot of it in stock...
> >
> >I bought a brand new box of 20lb greenbar at Office Despot
> >in June 2001 for $38.00.
> 
> I was really talking about the bedsheets - I think they'd be a cool part of
> 'retro dream-computing...' and might be quite rare nowadays...

I *caught* the bedsheet reference, and took it for metaphor...

    metaphors be with you

> I have a color lazer with serial/parallel/ethernet ports, full Postscript 2
> capability, 2G SCSI hard drive, and 112Meg RAM - I can print from most any
> classic machine I have (some multiport, like my Tandy 200, can print on the
> serial & parallel interfaces... ;-) so actual greenbar paper isn't ezactly
> at the top of my list...

But how do you get 8.5x11 paper to fit in your DECwriter LA-120?
 
;)

-dq

From co.614sqn at aafc.adfc.gov.au  Thu Mar 21 16:51:44 2002
From: co.614sqn at aafc.adfc.gov.au (FLTLT(AAFC) Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c1d12a$f988ac80$de2c67cb@helpdesk>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Toilett processing (Was: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam)


> The only classic machine I can't get to print is my MicroVAX 3100/m38 -
and
> that's only because I can't get it to talk TCP/IP... :-( 

Er, why not?  What version of VMS?

Cheers

Geoff in Oz


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:33 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
In-Reply-To: "Glen Goodwin" 
        "Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam" (Mar 20,  0:06)
References: <20020320050733.KPAM7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <10203212337.ZM15329@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 20,  0:06, Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > From: Pete Turnbull 
>
> > > Wasn't the ZX81 board already prepared to use a 6116 instead ?
> >
> > Yes, it was.  I put 6116's in several.
>
> Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a
6116?

I don't have either the service manual or my ZX81 handy, so I can't check,
but as far as I remember, just remove the 4118 and replace with a 6116.
 There might be a wire link to change (if so, it's obvious) but I don't
remember having to do that.  It is good practice to fit a socket, though.
 A few ZX81's had a pair of 2114's instead of the normal 4118, which were
in short supply at one time, but the same principle applies (the PCB is the
same).

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Thu Mar 21 17:46:20 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
In-Reply-To: Andreas Freiherr 
        "Re: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke]." (Mar 21, 11:47)
References: <3C9915C3.7060102@aurora.regenstrief.org> 
	<10203210807.ZM14861@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
	<3C99BA45.C8914340@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <10203212346.ZM15412@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 21, 11:47, Andreas Freiherr wrote:
>
> Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > The correct way to do someting like this in a cron entry is to check
the
> > return code from the cd command, and only execute the rest of the
command
> > if the cd succeeds, eg
> >
> >  (cd /usr/preserve && find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
>
> Hm. I'm not a Unix guru, so it's well possible I'm missing something
> here. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
>
> Why don't you just
>
> 	find /usr/preserve -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;

In this case, that would do as well.  I was just illustrating that you have
to be careful with unattended operations, and not do anything dangerous
unless you're sure you're in the right place (or other prerequisites have
been met).

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From pat at purdueriots.com  Thu Mar 21 17:47:13 2002
From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 parts
Message-ID: 

Well, I can't find any buyers for my IBM 3480 units, so I'm starting to
disassemble one of them so I can re-gain some free space and probably sell
off the large chunks of steel.  I was wondering - does anyone (Sridhar?)
have any technical docs for the 3480, like a service manual or something
that would tell me the pinouts of things like the display?

Thanks

-- Pat


From brian at quarterbyte.com  Thu Mar 21 18:08:22 2002
From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Wright Punch up for auction
Message-ID: <3C9A0576.18554.330775CD@localhost>

There's a Wright Punch up for auction at www.govliquidation.com. 
The Wright Punch is a cool little manual hollerith card keypunch 
machine. Someone ought to get it!  

It slipped by me -- auction closes at 8 PM eastern time, that's 
less than an hour from now. Sealed Bid sale, $35 min. The 
downside is you have to pick it up in Norfolk, VA next week, and 
take a big pile of other junk along with it. You'll need a 
pickup.   

If you're interested it's event 623, lot 46, item 37.

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=25154

Brian
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _|  Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _|  Tel:   1-510-559-7930   Fax: 1-510-525-6889
_| _| _|  Email: brian@quarterbyte.com
_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com


From fdebros at verizon.net  Thu Mar 21 18:24:25 2002
From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor 
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001c1d137$ec416640$6501a8c0@fred>

Ok Dittmann got away with it for about half the usual price.
I hope he lives in a cold state as these things generate a heck of a lot
of heat!
But they are the geekiest screens  I have ever owned. And theres a big
real estate to cover in mono! Real gorgeous and an attention getter
every time. I was told these thingys cost 20 k when new ....in 91! I
wonder who other than the INS bought them. There were quite a few made
and there are still plenty around.

I hope we can get a group together to make them work on X!

I did, some years ago and I still have the xf86config file.
It has to be on a sync-on-green video card, of course: Matrox millenium
(or mystique?) I forget. There are others.

But after that I got into incorrectible trouble:
In regular svga --8bpp it throws a moir? on dithered screens of 1000x800
more or less. Ugly. Too d....bad! I gave up on them. I could never
figure why. Later on I wondered:

Has anyone tried -bpp2, 4 or 6? In xinitrc or startx --bppnnn?

I wish I could use mine better than as dumb  decscreens on a vaxserver
or as a mono std out on my netbsd VAX.What a waste of beautiful
technology! Think of the cockpit simulators one could do with that
glowing thing!

Fred
------------------------------------------------------------------------
	For those that might be interested in it, there's a VRE01-AA 
on eBay right now with a 'buy-it-now' price of $100.

	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011589633

	As usual, I have no connection with the auction, I'm just 
passing the info on in case anyone here is interested.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 18:35:04 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To:  from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 21, 2002 05:21:59 PM
Message-ID: <200203220035.g2M0Z4J17230@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> 	For those that might be interested in it, there's a VRE01-AA 
> on eBay right now with a 'buy-it-now' price of $100.
> 
> 	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011589633
> 
> 	As usual, I have no connection with the auction, I'm just 
> passing the info on in case anyone here is interested.

I happened to notice that a bit ago.  It is no longer available
as I BIN'ed it.  :-)
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 18:53:16 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d137$ec416640$6501a8c0@fred> from "Fred deBros" at Mar 21, 2002 07:24:25 PM
Message-ID: <200203220053.g2M0rGt17315@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Ok Dittmann got away with it for about half the usual price.
> I hope he lives in a cold state as these things generate a heck of a lot
> of heat!

At work we've got a load of 3290 displays so I'm pretty
familiar with the amount of heat one of those screens
puts out (similar technology).

> But they are the geekiest screens  I have ever owned. And theres a big
> real estate to cover in mono! Real gorgeous and an attention getter
> every time. I was told these thingys cost 20 k when new ....in 91! I
> wonder who other than the INS bought them. There were quite a few made
> and there are still plenty around.

I don't see these come up too often.  Likewise with an
ELT320.  I has high bidder on one on eBay, but didn't
meet the reserve.  I asked the seller if he'd sell it
anyway, but another bidder asked him before I did (and
I asked within a half hour of the end) and the seller
sold to him instead.  :-(

> I hope we can get a group together to make them work on X!

I'm going to use mine with DEC equipment.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 19:01:32 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To: <200203220035.g2M0Z4J17230@narnia.int.dittman.net>
References: <200203220035.g2M0Z4J17230@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: 

>I happened to notice that a bit ago.  It is no longer available
>as I BIN'ed it.  :-)

	You hadn't bought it yet when I sent it to the list!

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From chd_1 at nktelco.net  Thu Mar 21 19:22:17 2002
From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MSCP Initialization
Message-ID: <3C9A8749.AA90F74A@nktelco.net>

I am trying to get a KFQSA to work with 2.11BSD on a pdp-11. It always 
fails with an error in the SA register during the transition between 
STEP 3 and STEP 4 of the initialization sequence.

The SA register ends up with the value 101513. The error bit is set and 
I think that the rest is an error code. I can't find a reference to 
describe these error codes. 

An RQDX3 and a CQD-223 in the same machine initialize fine. The KFQSA 
initializes in an MVIII using NetBSD 1.5.

I have looked over the initialization code from NetBSD, Ultrix-32, 
4.4BSD, Ultrix-11, and 2.11BSD. The values being sent, are all very 
similar. One difference is that the VAXen OS use polling during the 
init, and the pdp-11 code uses interrupts.

Any suggestions or comments about the MSCP 4 step init and how it works 
on the KFQSA?

A pointer to error code reference would be great too.

-chuck

From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Thu Mar 21 19:31:52 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam
References: 
Message-ID: <00c601c1d141$9e15e900$65469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 02:29 PM
Subject: Re: ZX-TEAM meeting and Webcam


> >
> > > From: Ben Franchuk 
> >
> > > Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > >
> > > > 1 -- Build an interface for every device under the sun, including
the
> > > > toilet seat.
> > >
> > > That is easy -- a micro switch ...
> >
> > Not as easy as you might think.  You want it to flush when you get up,
but
> > not when you sit down, or when the seat is unoccupied . . .
>
> We had mechanical edge-triggered devices in the 14th century (seriously,
> I've admired one for a considerable time). Surely it's not beyond
> engineers today to design a device that triggers on the microswitch
> returning to 'normal'.
>
> If you were ingenious you'd use 2 microswitches. One to detect the
> position of the seat, one to detect somebody sitting on it. A 'rising'
> edge on the second (so called, because it detects the person rising ;-)),
> not closely followed by the first going to 'seat up' state will trigger a
> flush. Lowering the seat, though, might well trigger also trigger a flush.

C'mon, folks.  I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but we've had
unattended automatic-flush devices for years.  IR, I believe.  Walk past it,
no response.  Stand (or sit, as the case may be) for more than X seconds and
the device is armed.  Y seconds after vacating the space, and you hear the
magic sounds...

No need to waste IO pins on something like that when they're better used
elsewhere.

>
> And we could combine the hand-washing detector with the seat-up sensor,
> and then moan at people who leave the seat up ;-)...
>

Bob

> -tony


From vaxman at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 19:36:24 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Ultrix' /etc/crontab as a time-bomb [short joke].
In-Reply-To: <10203210807.ZM14861@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: 


Or perhaps a better solution:

find /usr/preserve -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote:

> On Mar 20, 18:05, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> > Hihi, our little training in risk-assessment tonight is the following
> > sippet of a crontab entry, scheduled to run dayly around midnight:
> >
> > (cd /usr/preserve ; find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
> >
> > why is this a bad idea and what happened to me last night as I was
> > playing with my VAX6460?
> 
> Because Bad Things happen if the cd fails...
> 
> > Answer: the /usr/preserve was a symlink to /usr/var/preserve which
> > didn't exist. What happened next?
> 
> > All files that were not accessed for more than 7 days were being deleted
> 
> The correct way to do someting like this in a cron entry is to check the
> return code from the cd command, and only execute the rest of the command
> if the cd succeeds, eg
> 
>  (cd /usr/preserve && find . -mtime +7 -a -exec rm -f {} \;)
> 
> -- 
> Pete						Peter Turnbull
> 						Network Manager
> 						University of York
> 


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 21 20:15:17 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To: Re: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay (Eric Dittman)
References: 
	<200203220035.g2M0Z4J17230@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <15514.37813.685650.757086@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 21, Eric Dittman wrote:
> > 	For those that might be interested in it, there's a VRE01-AA 
> > on eBay right now with a 'buy-it-now' price of $100.
> > 
> > 	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011589633
> > 
> > 	As usual, I have no connection with the auction, I'm just 
> > passing the info on in case anyone here is interested.
> 
> I happened to notice that a bit ago.  It is no longer available
> as I BIN'ed it.  :-)

  Congrats on the VRE01; I have one that I bought brandie-new from
Heffron's a couple of years ago...I use it on my VT1000; a great
combination.  I don't actually have it connected to the network...I
use it as a dual-session serial terminal. :-)

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 20:42:06 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: VT-320 connector (was RE: VT-320 Hack+Tip for Smokers)
In-Reply-To: <3C9789F1.C3F9AA6C@tiac.net>
References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664B5@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
  <3C9789F1.C3F9AA6C@tiac.net>
Message-ID: 

	Thanks to those that replied to my request for the connecting 
cable.  The guy I got the VT-320 from found the one that went with it 
and it's working nicely with my MicroVAX II.  They're connected 
together with a BCC05.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Thu Mar 21 20:48:34 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References: 
Message-ID: <019b01c1d14c$1065a0e0$65469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay


> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:
>
> > I saw this on eBay and thought people here might be interested:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011374761
>
>   Ooowwww....
>
>   That's the ultimate laptop.  Unfortunately, this one will likely get
> well into 4 figures.

It must not be that great a deal, as it hasn't sold yet via buy it now.  I
took several long looks at it, and even went so far as to look at the
sellers me page.  First off, it's got one of those G_D damned
cursor-chasers.  That's one big turn off right there.  Then, after the page
loaded (faster than the auction itself) I read some of his other
restrictions.  No pickup, no questions, ships whenever he gets around to it,
I couldn't see one reason why I would want to do business with this schmuck.
It's too bad, I would have liked to bid on it, but anyone who won't allow a
local pickup (even if I can't take advantage of it) I absolutely won't do
business with.    Stupid sellers.

On a less OT note, hmmm, well, I can't think of anything ATM.

>
> Doc

Bob


From mbg at TheWorld.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:43 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Destruction of DEC
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A848@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <200203220306.WAA2544189@shell.TheWorld.com>


>I keep joking that we need to go back to the datacenter and put up, on
>the Alpha boxes:
>
>crossed-out DIGITAL logo
>crossed-out Compaq logo
>crayon-drawn HP logo

I recently made some 'business' cards with my normal contact information
on them (the same as on my original DEC business cards), but I have the
'digital' logo fading out, the Compaq logo is full, and the HP logo is
fading in...

I guess I'll have to change the intensities of the logos again...
'digital' and 'compaq' on the wane, and HP waxing...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 21:10:35 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To: <15514.37813.685650.757086@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Mar 21, 2002 09:15:17 PM
Message-ID: <200203220310.g2M3AZ817651@narnia.int.dittman.net>

>   Congrats on the VRE01; I have one that I bought brandie-new from
> Heffron's a couple of years ago...I use it on my VT1000; a great
> combination.  I don't actually have it connected to the network...I
> use it as a dual-session serial terminal. :-)

What is Heffron's?
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From dittman at dittman.net  Thu Mar 21 21:11:26 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To:  from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 21, 2002 08:01:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203220311.g2M3BQk17665@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> >I happened to notice that a bit ago.  It is no longer available
> >as I BIN'ed it.  :-)
> 
> 	You hadn't bought it yet when I sent it to the list!

Yes, that's true.  I was just noting that I had bought it.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 21 21:23:11 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To: <019b01c1d14c$1065a0e0$65469280@y5f3q8>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote:

> It must not be that great a deal, as it hasn't sold yet via buy it now.  I
> took several long looks at it, and even went so far as to look at the
> sellers me page.  First off, it's got one of those G_D damned
> cursor-chasers.  That's one big turn off right there.  Then, after the page
> loaded (faster than the auction itself) I read some of his other
> restrictions.  No pickup, no questions, ships whenever he gets around to it,
> I couldn't see one reason why I would want to do business with this schmuck.
> It's too bad, I would have liked to bid on it, but anyone who won't allow a
> local pickup (even if I can't take advantage of it) I absolutely won't do
> business with.    Stupid sellers.

  That's exactly what I came up with.  The last couple of 860s that
crossed ebay weren't nearly as well-set-up and went for $750+.  This guy
not only has no clue what he's selling, but comes off like a serious
jerk.  I'd still snatch it if I had 5 bills.

	Doc

P.S.-- If you want IBM's official internal name for that mouse, you'll
have to ask off-list.



From mbg at TheWorld.com  Thu Mar 21 21:34:37 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
Message-ID: <200203220334.WAA2644078@shell.TheWorld.com>


>Actually  there was a dual microm that would give the PDT11/150
>EIS and FIS...

*actually* -- the dual microm simply combines the 3007 and 3010
microm chips into one dual carrier, which frees up a slot for
the EIS/FIS chip... you still need the EIS/FIS chip, however.

I've got a couple of PDT-11/150s with the mod.  There was a version
of space invaders for a VT100 on RT-11 which required EIS/FIS for
some reason.  For quite a while we used the EIS/FIS emulator
driver (I think it was from Ian Hammond), at least until we found
a supply for dual microms and EIS/FIS chips.

(This was back in the days when the PDT-11/150 was sold to DEC
employees and we had a broad-spectrum mailing list to discuss
it -- I was a moderator for it)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

From mbg at TheWorld.com  Thu Mar 21 21:37:11 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
Message-ID: <200203220337.WAA2523681@shell.TheWorld.com>

Oh yeah... the PDT had 6 terminal connectors on the back -- the console
port, three serial lines for terminals, one serial line for a printer
and one modem port which could be either asynch or synch.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

From edick at idcomm.com  Thu Mar 21 21:59:38 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: <200203220337.WAA2523681@shell.TheWorld.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1d155$fc9a98e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's, yet I've never
seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors have.  Do any of
you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the 805x series
that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?

thanx,

Dick



From jcwren at jcwren.com  Thu Mar 21 22:35:17 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:38 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d155$fc9a98e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

	The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II monitor had a nice
little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years ago), I stripped
that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.  You
could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit of typing.

	--John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 23:00 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
>
>
> The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> yet I've never
> seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> have.  Do any of
> you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> 805x series
> that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?
>
> thanx,
>
> Dick
>
>
>


From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 22:59:47 2002
From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Fwd: Commodore C64, related equipment - contact original owner, not me
Message-ID: <20020322045947.89563.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>


Philip has given me permission to post his information to the list.  As is
typical with these sorts of deals, please contact him directly, not me.  The
stuff is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for the curious.  It's too far for me to
go for ordinary stuff.

-ethan

--- Philip Buzzell  wrote:
> From: "Philip Buzzell" 
> To: 
> Subject: Commodore C64, related equipment
> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:05:43 -0800
> Organization: Prodigy Internet
> 
> Dear Ethan -
> 
> If you, or someone you know has a use for some Commodore equipment I have
> some I would gladly part with ---- for free.  In short, I need some advise on
> what I can do with this old computer equipment, and I have been unable to
> locate anyone who might have an interest here in West Michigan.
> 
> 2-C64 Computers - One worked Ok as I recollect; the other sometimes failed to
> accept key strokes, perhaps keyboard or maybe a buffer problem.
> 
> 2-1541 Disk Drives - one worked OK the last time I used it; the other I
> secured from a friend as a spare but never had occasion to try it.
> 
> 1-1702 Commodore color Monitor, worked OK, screen is probably 13/14 inches.
> 
> 1-Epson RX-80 printer, worked OK, tractor paper drive, has Card Co
> interconnect with computer.
> 
> 1-Joystick
> 
> Have most interconnect cabling, at least enough to run one system.  All
> equipment has been stored boxed except monitor which was bagged.  Equipment
> stored up off the floor so I anticipate it is in OK shape, stored since
> late-80's in a dry basement.  Computers have been stored in original boxes. 
> Have Users Manuals plus thicker Programmers Manual for the C64, and "Anatomy
> of the 1541" by Abacus Software.  Have some software; Easy Script word
> processing prg, Print Shop with 3 disks of graphics, Printmaster with 1
> graphics disk, etc.  Have some of the usual C64 games; Frogger, Moon Patrol,
> Pacman, Zaxxon, Centipede, etc.
> 
> I realize you are located in Columbus OH but I could not find a Club of C64
> folks here in West Michigan so I finally turned to the Internet.  Hope you
> can help me as I would like to pass the equipment on, if I can find someone
> who has an interest.  I'm afraid my next step will be to trash it.
> 
> Hoping to hear your response
>     P L Buzzell
>     1175 Fuller Ct SE
>     Grand Rapids  MI  49508
>     Tel# (616) 538-0811
>     e-mail  ph.buzz@prodigy.net


=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 21 23:04:55 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9ABB77.C980CDF9@jetnet.ab.ca>

John Chris Wren wrote:
> 
>         The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II monitor had a nice
> little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
> compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years ago), I stripped
> that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.  You
> could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit of typing.

The 6502 has a very simple and regular instruction set that is easy to
encode.
What is 805x controler like?

> > The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> > yet I've never
> > seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> > assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> > have.  Do any of
> > you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> > 805x series
> > that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?

Lets not forget a version of basic for the apple was all hand coded with
no real source?
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 21 23:19:06 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay
In-Reply-To: Re: DEC VRE01-AA Plasma screen monitor on eBay (Eric Dittman)
References: <15514.37813.685650.757086@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<200203220310.g2M3AZ817651@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <15514.48842.943524.527686@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 21, Eric Dittman wrote:
> >   Congrats on the VRE01; I have one that I bought brandie-new from
> > Heffron's a couple of years ago...I use it on my VT1000; a great
> > combination.  I don't actually have it connected to the network...I
> > use it as a dual-session serial terminal. :-)
> 
> What is Heffron's?

  Eli Heffron's...I think they're called E.L.I. Systems or something
like that nowadays.  A neat but WAY overpriced surplus-ish shop in
Boston (or is it Cambridge?)...

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 21 23:19:46 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ADFF7.85A4B9E9@compsys.to>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote:

> I have been advised to see if I can find a version of "dd" which will work
> under
> Windows 98?  Is this possible?  I realize that I should attempt to use a Unix
> system, but I have enough trouble coping with this one which is:
> Pentium III 750
> Windows 98/Netscape V4.78
> E11

  There's a DOS "dd.exe" that Sun released awhile back.  ISTR I've used
it under 98.

http://soldc.sun.com/support/drivers/tools/

	Doc


From fernande at internet1.net  Thu Mar 21 23:43:44 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Fwd: Commodore C64, related equipment - contact original owner, not 
 me
References: <20020322045947.89563.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AC490.AC657B62@internet1.net>

Well shoot, something fairly close by to me, but it's nothing I have
very much interest in!!  I wanted a C64 when I was younger but ended up
going the Apple route through school.  Now, I don't need to expand my
collection of hardware, as I've got Vax, RS6K, A2, and PS/2, and little
room for more!!!

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
> Philip has given me permission to post his information to the list.  As is
> typical with these sorts of deals, please contact him directly, not me.  The
> stuff is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for the curious.  It's too far for me to
> go for ordinary stuff.
> 
> -ethan

From jcwren at jcwren.com  Thu Mar 21 23:43:56 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ABB77.C980CDF9@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 

	D'oh!  I feel stupid.  Don't ask me why I read 65xx with you asked about
805x.  I've been writing 805x for about 15 years, and I've never run across
one.  I've though about writing one from time to time, but never got around
to it.  Since I usually have a pretty tight embedded system, I use all host
side tools.  If you write one, I'd be interested in looking at it.

	--John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 0:05 AM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
>
>
> John Chris Wren wrote:
> >
> >         The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II
> monitor had a nice
> > little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
> > compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years
> ago), I stripped
> > that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.  You
> > could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit
> of typing.
>
> The 6502 has a very simple and regular instruction set that is easy to
> encode.
> What is 805x controler like?
>
> > > The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> > > yet I've never
> > > seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> > > assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> > > have.  Do any of
> > > you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> > > 805x series
> > > that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?
>
> Lets not forget a version of basic for the apple was all hand coded with
> no real source?
> --
> Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
>


From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:36 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C9ADFF7.85A4B9E9@compsys.to>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020322000445.02332068@pc>

At 11:19 PM 3/21/2002 -0600, Doc wrote:
>  There's a DOS "dd.exe" that Sun released awhile back.  ISTR I've used
>it under 98.
>
>http://soldc.sun.com/support/drivers/tools/

And there's no docs.  It says:

J:\>dd

USAGE: J:\DD.EXE [filename] [drive]

Like I should type 'dd Q:driveimage C:' to make a copy of C:
on file Q:driveimage?

- John


From general at cyber.net.pk  Fri Mar 22 00:08:38 2002
From: general at cyber.net.pk (Muhammad Nasir Khan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: intro sort of
Message-ID: <3C9ACA66.5EAEDE5C@cyber.net.pk>

Dear sir

please help me.

one of my client is using DEC server 700-08 witha vax station
he is using some
VMS5.4 soft wrae.

i delieverd DEC700-16 but this model is not working
please help me i am not recieving any error message on monitor.

seven segment on DEC700-16 shows 5 that means some NI external test

please help me that can i mange DEC700-16 insted of 08 port

regards

nasir


From brian at quarterbyte.com  Fri Mar 22 00:19:06 2002
From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Seymour Cray Lecture
Message-ID: <3C9A5C5A.17203.F15917@localhost>

Hey y'all ... I just found a web-based version of a lecture 
Gordon Bell gave about Seymour Cray in 1997. It's wonderful.

http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/craytalk/sld001.htm  

There are detailed notes under many of the slides. The last slide 
is hilarious and kind of touching.

brian

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _|  Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _|  Tel:   1-510-559-7930   Fax: 1-510-525-6889
_| _| _|  Email: brian@quarterbyte.com
_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 00:19:58 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: 
Message-ID: <000d01c1d169$97eac000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I don't know that I follow that logic.  The 805x series has 64KB of code
space, and 64KB of data space, and most applicatons likely to benefit from the
presence of a line-by-line assembler have a scheme for overlapping the two,
usually in part, since fixed code space resides at the bottom of code space
and fixed data space resides at the bottom of the data map.

Current versions of that (805x) core have considerably more internal resources
than the classic versions.  The one I'm presently fiddling with has 16KB of
internal code space and 1.25KB of internal RAM, all in addition to the 64KB of
external code space and 64KB of data space.  Moreover, it executes a
single-cycle instruction in 20 ns.

Since errors are often introduced in transcription, that's the part I was
trying to avoid, if an entire already completed line-by-line assembler isn't
to be found.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Chris Wren" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: RE: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?


> The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II monitor had a nice
> little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
> compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years ago), I stripped
> that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.  You
> could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit of typing.
>
> --John
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
> > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 23:00 PM
> > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
> >
> >
> > The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> > yet I've never
> > seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> > assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> > have.  Do any of
> > you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> > 805x series
> > that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?
> >
> > thanx,
> >
> > Dick
> >
> >
> >
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:09 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020322000445.02332068@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John Foust wrote:

> At 11:19 PM 3/21/2002 -0600, Doc wrote:
> >  There's a DOS "dd.exe" that Sun released awhile back.  ISTR I've used
> >it under 98.
> >
> >http://soldc.sun.com/support/drivers/tools/
>
> And there's no docs.  It says:
>
> J:\>dd
>
> USAGE: J:\DD.EXE [filename] [drive]
>
> Like I should type 'dd Q:driveimage C:' to make a copy of C:
> on file Q:driveimage?

  It's been a long time since I used it, but IIRC, if I had a floppy I
wanted to image, I'd do

 dd A: C:\mydir\floppy.img

	Doc


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Fri Mar 22 00:49:38 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Fwd: Commodore C64, related equipment - contact original owner, not  me
References: <20020322045947.89563.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3C9AC490.AC657B62@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AD402.9080405@aurora.regenstrief.org>

I already have one and a spare. My kids are actually playing on
it, it sits right in the living room under the TV, just like
ol' times :-). So, that is to say before it hits the trash,
I can take it from Chad next time I drive up to Michigan.
Summer is coming and family trips to Michigan City area are
what we do.

regards
-Gunther


Chad Fernandez wrote:

> Well shoot, something fairly close by to me, but it's nothing I have
> very much interest in!!  I wanted a C64 when I was younger but ended up
> going the Apple route through school.  Now, I don't need to expand my
> collection of hardware, as I've got Vax, RS6K, A2, and PS/2, and little
> room for more!!!
> 
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
> 
> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
>>Philip has given me permission to post his information to the list.  As is
>>typical with these sorts of deals, please contact him directly, not me.  The
>>stuff is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for the curious.  It's too far for me to
>>go for ordinary stuff.
>>
>>-ethan
>>


-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From healyzh at aracnet.com  Fri Mar 22 01:15:13 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ADFF7.85A4B9E9@compsys.to>
References: <200203182218.g2IMIe331848@shell1.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: 

>While I can burn a CD with the ISO file structure, I would very much like
>to set up some RT-11 partitions to be used under E11 - like were done
>with the RT-11 Freeware CD.

I've been wondering if it's possible to create a image of a MSCP disk (a
RA82 looks to be the best bet) under either E11 or SIMH, and then burn it
to CD-R.  I know that RL01 and RL02 images are directly transferable, and
the same looks to be true for RX02 and RX50 images.

			Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 22 01:35:04 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References:  <019b01c1d14c$1065a0e0$65469280@y5f3q8>
Message-ID: <008f01c1d174$15690460$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> No pickup, no questions, ships whenever he gets around to it,
> I couldn't see one reason why I would want to do business with this schmuck.
> It's too bad, I would have liked to bid on it, but anyone who won't allow a
> local pickup (even if I can't take advantage of it) I absolutely won't do
> business with.    Stupid sellers.

I can certainly see why someone would prefer not to have complete strangers come to their house to pick up items.  Unless I was
selling a really large item where the postage would exceed, let's say $50.00, I see no compelling reason to allow people I don't
know to come to my house.  I have two small daughters at home (3 and 7), and live in a somewhat isolated area, so why should I do
anything that even marginally jeopardizes their safety?   Sure, I may be paranoid, but a schmuck?  Get serious.


From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Fri Mar 22 01:40:39 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
References: <200203182218.g2IMIe331848@shell1.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9ADFF7.85A4B9E9@compsys.to>

>Zane H. Healy wrote:

> > Why would you be using ISO?  My plan was just to dd copy (with unix
> > cdrecord) a bootable RT-11 SCSI disk to the CD.  Assuming that if I had a
> > bootable RT-11 SCSI disk as /dev/rz4c on a unix machine, with cdrecord, I
> > would just do this:
> > dd if=/dev/rz4c ibs=64k obs=64k | cdrecord -dev 3,5,0 -speed=2 -
> > Will this work?
> Basically this is what I've done.  Though I think I had the block size
> seriously cranked down (no idea if that matters).  I first went to an image
> file, and then I FTP'd it to my Mac and burned it to CD-R (I didn't have a
> CD-R attached at the time).

Jerome Fine replies:

I have been advised to see if I can find a version of "dd" which will work
under
Windows 98?  Is this possible?  I realize that I should attempt to use a Unix
system, but I have enough trouble coping with this one which is:
Pentium III 750
Windows 98/Netscape V4.78
E11

While I can burn a CD with the ISO file structure, I would very much like
to set up some RT-11 partitions to be used under E11 - like were done
with the RT-11 Freeware CD.

> > This week, I'm going to hook up my remaining RX02 drive to a VMS machine
> > and copy the data off the RX02's.  At that point, all I should need is an
> > image of v5.03 of RT-11 with my program, which I can then burn to a CD.
> Stuff your RX02 images in an RL02 image using PUTR.COM, then you just need
> to get the RL02 image onto your RT-11 system (I have TCP/IP working on my
> PDP-11/73 so I just FTP it).

If you are going to have a CD on your real PDP-11 with a Qbus host adapter,
then if you want to be able to boot partition zero, I suggest you use the
command:
COPY/BOOT  DU0:RT11XM.SYS  DU0:
to the partition you are going to place on the CD.  MANY other aspects also
need to be considered if it will be a bootable partition.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From doc at mdrconsult.com  Fri Mar 22 01:49:25 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
In-Reply-To: <008f01c1d174$15690460$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:

> I can certainly see why someone would prefer not to have complete strangers come to their house to pick up items.  Unless I was
> selling a really large item where the postage would exceed, let's say $50.00, I see no compelling reason to allow people I don't
> know to come to my house.  I have two small daughters at home (3 and 7), and live in a somewhat isolated area, so why should I do
> anything that even marginally jeopardizes their safety?   Sure, I may be paranoid, but a schmuck?  Get serious.

  It's not that hard to arrange a meeting in a neutral place.  If the
seller is an individual, he/she is probably going to have to deliver the
item somewhere (carrier's counter), anyway.  If a business, they
generally have a storefront or warehouse location that would be safe for
pickups.

	Doc


From tosteve at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:07 2002
From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.
Message-ID: <20020322081707.62171.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,

Things I'm looking for:
- HP-85
- Exidy Sorcerer
- NEC PC-8201a
- Commodore 128D
- TRS-80 pocket PC (PC1)
- Panasonic RL-H1000 Pocket PC

Stuff I have to offer:
- Amiga 500
- Atari 400
- HP-110
- Apple IIc w/monitor
- Atari 800
- Mac Portable (5120)
- Apple III Monitor (only)
- Timex Sinclair 1000
- TRS-80 model 100

Thanks for looking,
Steve in Southern California.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From petersv at psv.nu  Fri Mar 22 02:36:29 2002
From: petersv at psv.nu (Peter Svensson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ACF72.2080808@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Whatever. Who can tell me where this power sequencing jumper
> is so that I can set it to being the first to spin up?

The power sequencing jumper is a small round plug with four pins that are 
placed in a contact near the black data cables. I can't quite picture the 
RA81 now, but I think one of the connectors is to the left of the data 
cables and one on to the right of them. They should be labeled "in" and 
"out". The power sequencing forms a chain through the use of power 
sequencing cables such that the first drive in the chain (the one with the 
jumper instead of a cable on "in") starts first, then the next one and so 
on.

The jumper is about 5cm long, 1cm in diamater I think, usually black with 
a silvery threaded ring that holds it in position.

Peter
--
Peter Svensson      ! Pgp key available by finger, fingerprint:
    ! 8A E9 20 98 C1 FF 43 E3  07 FD B9 0A 80 72 70 AF
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, Luke, your source will be with you... always...



From bqt at update.uu.se  Fri Mar 22 03:08:17 2002
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ACF72.2080808@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Whatever. Who can tell me where this power sequencing jumper
> is so that I can set it to being the first to spin up?

You have two small round connectors on the back of the drive. Those are
the power sequence in and out. You usually hooked all (or groups) of RA81
together with the power sequence cables, and the drives started in
sequence. About 10 seconds between each drive. The first drive have a
special plug in the in-socket.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 22 03:28:48 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References: 
Message-ID: <00b001c1d183$f8e59140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> > I can certainly see why someone would prefer not to have complete strangers come to their house to pick up items.  Unless I was
> > selling a really large item where the postage would exceed, let's say $50.00, I see no compelling reason to allow people I don't
> > know to come to my house.  I have two small daughters at home (3 and 7), and live in a somewhat isolated area, so why should I
do
> > anything that even marginally jeopardizes their safety?   Sure, I may be paranoid, but a schmuck?  Get serious.
>
>   It's not that hard to arrange a meeting in a neutral place.  If the
> seller is an individual, he/she is probably going to have to deliver the
> item somewhere (carrier's counter), anyway.  If a business, they
> generally have a storefront or warehouse location that would be safe for
> pickups.
>
> Doc
>
No, it's not that hard, but it's still easier to not have to coordinate with someone else's schedule.  Look, people have their
reasons for not wanting to meet others in person, some may be good ones, some may not.  Why can't someone set their terms of sale
without having the name-calling begin?  C'mon, give us misanthropes a break!


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:51 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.
References: <20020322081707.62171.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B010F.914EEFD4@ccp.com>

steve wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
>
> Stuff I have to offer:
> - Amiga 500

> Thanks for looking,
> Steve in Southern California.
> 


Wouldn't mind another Amiga 500 . ..  any accesories or is it just the
bare keyboard/CPU?  Respond off -list please.

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

From tony.eros at machm.org  Fri Mar 22 05:17:07 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Basic GIGI usage
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322060851.0296ab20@mail.njd.concentric.com>

I set up a DEC GIGI yesterday, but I'm not sure I did it right.  I 
connected the RGB connectors to the monitor and connected the "MONO" 
connector to the "Video In" port on the monitor.

When I turn everything on, the GIGI's "Local", "Basic" and "L1" lamps are 
on and the screen paints from a solid light blue to a solid brick 
red.  Then the screen clears, leaving a block cursor flashing at the top 
left corner of the screen and the "Online" lamp lit on the GIGI.  But I get 
no response on the keyboard.

Are there any GIGI owners out there with a tip as to what I'm doing 
wrong?  Does anyone have any scanned GIGI docs?

Thanks!

-- Tony


From tony.eros at machm.org  Fri Mar 22 05:26:35 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322061710.029943d8@mail.njd.concentric.com>

I've seeing some screen jitters on the screen of my Symbolics 3620.  The 
characters are sort of doubled up and horizontally offset, as if you had 
two copies of the same text on a pair of overhead slides, lined them up one 
over the other and then moved the top one about a half-character to the 
right.  Take the whole thing, make it kind of blurry and you have the 
effect I see.

Is this a standard sort of monitor problem that is easily fixed by tweaking 
some internal pot (I hope!) or is it likely some bigger problem?  Does 
anyone have any maintenance documentation on this beast or a spare monitor 
they don't need?

Thanks!

-- Tony


From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Fri Mar 22 06:14:23 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: [OT name calling]Re: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References:  <019b01c1d14c$1065a0e0$65469280@y5f3q8> <008f01c1d174$15690460$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <005e01c1d19d$c43eb880$b3469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne M. Smith" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 02:35 AM
Subject: Re: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay


> > No pickup, no questions, ships whenever he gets around to it,
> > I couldn't see one reason why I would want to do business with this
schmuck.
> > It's too bad, I would have liked to bid on it, but anyone who won't
allow a
> > local pickup (even if I can't take advantage of it) I absolutely won't
do
> > business with.    Stupid sellers.
>
> I can certainly see why someone would prefer not to have complete
strangers come to their house to pick up items.  Unless I was
> selling a really large item where the postage would exceed, let's say
$50.00, I see no compelling reason to allow people I don't
> know to come to my house.  I have two small daughters at home (3 and 7),
and live in a somewhat isolated area, so why should I do
> anything that even marginally jeopardizes their safety?   Sure, I may be
paranoid, but a schmuck?  Get serious.

If it was just $50, I wouldn't care either.  But 5 bills is enough that I
want to be reasonably sure that I'll get what the auction claims.  After a
few seconds of browsing his me page, it appears that the only interaction I
can have with the seller is to a) bid or b) not bid.  If it was _only_
no-pickup, well, that's only one minus, but I can't even call him to see if
I can arrange to see it somewhere else or to ask him if it boots.  The only
plus for this auction was the item itself.  I maintain schmuck.

FWIW, I have two daughters too-- one 16 months and one five months.

Bob


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 22 06:40:19 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Seymour Cray Lecture
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A86A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> Hey y'all ... I just found a web-based version of a lecture 
> Gordon Bell gave about Seymour Cray in 1997. It's wonderful.
> 
> http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/craytalk/sld001.htm  
> 
> There are detailed notes under many of the slides. The last slide 
> is hilarious and kind of touching.

Often misquoted... as Al Kossow can testify to, the primary use
of the Cray was for mold-flow analysis. Ever wonder why Mac
plastic cases don't crack as much as other trash?

-dq

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Fri Mar 22 06:42:08 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A86B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's, yet I've
never
> seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors have.  Do any
of
> you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the 805x series
> that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?

Funny- that's what I thought the BASIC version was for...

Personal preference here is for the traditional macro assembler
generating .HEX files... SIMTEL has quite an extensive collection
of software for the 8031/8032/8051/8052 and derivatives...

-dq

From allain at panix.com  Fri Mar 22 08:51:46 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Basic GIGI usage
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322060851.0296ab20@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <000701c1d1b1$17808600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

In Online mode all characters typed go out to the
serial port and all characters displayed come in
from the serial port.  If you get the online light to turn
off, then you should see the characters you type.
If there is a button labelled "SetUp" then that should
be the way to changing the configuration, such as 
going from "online" to this "local" mode.

John A.



From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Fri Mar 22 08:52:05 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9B4515.9090405@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Johnny Billquist wrote:


> You have two small round connectors on the back of the drive. Those are
> the power sequence in and out. You usually hooked all (or groups) of RA81
> together with the power sequence cables, and the drives started in
> sequence. About 10 seconds between each drive. The first drive have a
> special plug in the in-socket.


Ahhrgh! Well, thanks for letting me know. I knew about the power
sequencing chain and the cables and stuff, but where the heck should
one get those jumpers from? I was hoping there was some jumper of
dip-switch on the inside that would let me override this. May be
I should cut one of the cable that I do have and just cut the two
wires short? Would that make a functional jumper? Or has anyone
gotten a box of those and could give me one?

thanks,
-Gunther



-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 22 09:38:02 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Fwd: Commodore C64, related equipment - contact original owner, not  
 me
References: <20020322045947.89563.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3C9AC490.AC657B62@internet1.net> <3C9AD402.9080405@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B4FDA.FCE4156E@internet1.net>

But Michigan City is in Indiana :-)


Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
> I already have one and a spare. My kids are actually playing on
> it, it sits right in the living room under the TV, just like
> ol' times :-). So, that is to say before it hits the trash,
> I can take it from Chad next time I drive up to Michigan.
> Summer is coming and family trips to Michigan City area are
> what we do.
> 
> regards
> -Gunther
> 
> Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> > Well shoot, something fairly close by to me, but it's nothing I have
> > very much interest in!!  I wanted a C64 when I was younger but ended up
> > going the Apple route through school.  Now, I don't need to expand my
> > collection of hardware, as I've got Vax, RS6K, A2, and PS/2, and little
> > room for more!!!
> >
> > Chad Fernandez
> > Michigan, USA
> >
> > Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >
> >>Philip has given me permission to post his information to the list.  As is
> >>typical with these sorts of deals, please contact him directly, not me.  The
> >>stuff is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for the curious.  It's too far for me to
> >>go for ordinary stuff.
> >>
> >>-ethan
> >>
> 
> --
> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
> Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
> Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
> tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Fri Mar 22 09:50:08 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
In-Reply-To: <3C9B5E58.C8837E06@compsys.to>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote:

> By the way, Doc, I have downloaded the dd.exe file - thank you.
> Of course there was no documentation.  Perhaps that is available
> somewhere as well?  Also, can I use this technique to "Burn" a
> CD that has already had the first portion written with an ISO file
> structure?  Was this how Tim Shoppa prepared the RT-11
> Freeware CD?  If I seem totally confused by the nature of the
> questions I am asking, you are correct!
>

  I don't remember ever seeing any documentation for DD.EXE.  When I
found it, I think I used a DOS boot disk to test my guesses.
Unfortunately, I don't have a DOS/Win box built right now. In VMWare,
"dd a:\ C:\dos\test.img" lights up the floppy and says "Permission
denied", so I dunno.  It may be that this dd.exe is one-way.  Image
files to disk, but no reading disks to files.
  I'll investigate further this evening.
  As far as burning a CD with dd in Windows, I very seriously doubt that
Windows "pipes" are up to it.

	Doc


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Fri Mar 22 09:50:58 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9B52E2.D5A4018E@jetnet.ab.ca>

John Chris Wren wrote:
> 
>         D'oh!  I feel stupid.  Don't ask me why I read 65xx with you asked about
> 805x.  I've been writing 805x for about 15 years, and I've never run across
> one.  I've though about writing one from time to time, but never got around
> to it.  Since I usually have a pretty tight embedded system, I use all host
> side tools.  If you write one, I'd be interested in looking at it.

I have seen 6502/6800 style embedded assemblers. Never used them. I have
not used
a 805x so I don't know the Instruction set for it so I don't know how
easy it would 
be to write one. Most user side tools are from the early days of $1000 8
bit computers when you only had ONE computer.Here is some printable
Instruction Set Cards for many cpu's other than 805x. Also many early
computers like the PDP-8,8080 had a instruction set that let you code
directly in octal numbers.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From csmith at amdocs.com  Fri Mar 22 10:01:49 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve [mailto:tosteve@yahoo.com]

> Things I'm looking for:
> - HP-85
> - Exidy Sorcerer
> - NEC PC-8201a
> - Commodore 128D
> - TRS-80 pocket PC (PC1)
> - Panasonic RL-H1000 Pocket PC

This reminds me...

I have a "pocket" computer, which is, as far as I can tell,
nearly identical to the above TRS-80, except made by some
other company.  (Don't remember which)  Does anyone know a
source for LCD screens for these things?   My screen is 
cracked, and I'd actually like to use this thing again.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From tony.eros at machm.org  Fri Mar 22 10:30:20 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Basic GIGI usage
In-Reply-To: <000701c1d1b1$17808600$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322060851.0296ab20@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322112624.029ae730@mail.njd.concentric.com>

I'm good on local echo (though I'm not sure what the setup commands are)

For some reason I thought all the GIGI terminals had BASIC in ROM -- I was 
probably mistaken.  Does anyone know an offhand way to tell if a particular 
unit has onboard BASIC?

-- Tony

At 09:51 AM 3/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>In Online mode all characters typed go out to the
>serial port and all characters displayed come in
>from the serial port.  If you get the online light to turn
>off, then you should see the characters you type.
>If there is a button labelled "SetUp" then that should
>be the way to changing the configuration, such as
>going from "online" to this "local" mode.
>
>John A.


From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Fri Mar 22 10:33:00 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
Message-ID: 

Unfortunately, the only handy source for LCD screens for pocket/palmtops is
another palmtop (i.e., one that is broken in some other way. The screens
generally were custom ordered, and are not found on the surplus market. This
is certainly the case for the HP LX palmtops. Thaddeus Computing, the main
repair center in the US for the LX, cannibalizes broken units for parts to
fix ones sent to them for repairs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:02 AM
To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)



This reminds me...

I have a "pocket" computer, which is, as far as I can tell,
nearly identical to the above TRS-80, except made by some
other company.  (Don't remember which)  Does anyone know a
source for LCD screens for these things?   My screen is 
cracked, and I'd actually like to use this thing again.


From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Fri Mar 22 10:39:52 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11?
References: <200203182218.g2IMIe331848@shell1.aracnet.com> 
Message-ID: <3C9B5E58.C8837E06@compsys.to>

"Zane H. Healy" wrote:

> >While I can burn a CD with the ISO file structure, I would very much like
> >to set up some RT-11 partitions to be used under E11 - like were done
> >with the RT-11 Freeware CD.
> I've been wondering if it's possible to create a image of a MSCP disk (a
> RA82 looks to be the best bet) under either E11 or SIMH, and then burn it
> to CD-R.  I know that RL01 and RL02 images are directly transferable, and
> the same looks to be true for RX02 and RX50 images.

Jerome Fine replies:

As Zane may remember, under Windows 98, when I use the E11 command:
MOUNT   DU1:  CDROME:
I am able to see almost the whole CD under RT-11  EXCEPT the first
64 decimal (100 octal) blocks.  Can anyone comment on this aspect?

To help anyone understand, when I boot RT-11 under E11 under Windows 98,
the CD (having used the above command under E11) will appear as 20 RT-11
partitions of exactly 65536 "blocks" (32 MBytes) each - assuming that the CD
has been written to the highest possible "block".  Each "block" will still be
512
bytes even though on the CD the "sector" size is 2048 bytes.  This means that
the CD is divided into partitions of exactly 16384 "sectors" that are 2048
bytes
each - even though RT-11 will see it the other way (i.e. 512 byte blocks).

However, the first 64 blocks of 512 bytes are NOT readable under Windows 98.
I have NEVER had the ability to use the same CD in a CDROM drive under
RT-11 on a real PDP-11, but I get the impression that under that set-up, the
first 64 blocks can be read.  In that case, it would even be possible to have
the real PDP-11 do a hardware boot from partition zero is everything on the
CD was set-up correctly.  Can anyone comment on this question?

ALSO, I noticed a reference in previous post in respect of the notation
used to write to a specific block on the destination.  Tom suggested:
dd if=/dev/rz4c ibs=64k obs=64k | cdrecord -dev 3,5,0 -speed=2 -
but I would appreciate some idea of what the actual syntax is for
the command?

By the way, Doc, I have downloaded the dd.exe file - thank you.
Of course there was no documentation.  Perhaps that is available
somewhere as well?  Also, can I use this technique to "Burn" a
CD that has already had the first portion written with an ISO file
structure?  Was this how Tim Shoppa prepared the RT-11
Freeware CD?  If I seem totally confused by the nature of the
questions I am asking, you are correct!

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Fri Mar 22 10:50:57 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: FS: HP 7470A paper plotter...
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677A1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

	I just rescued an HP 7470A plotter from hitting the round file. But
realistically, I'll never use it. has an open foil package with the 5
colored pens in it. And a serial looking cable.
	Free for pickup in New Haven, CT, or pay (via money order or PayPal)
for shipping, packing materials, and maybe something for the labor. :)

	Now, kinda OT, but here goes. Answers probably should be off-list...
I have a Sun Ultra1 Creator. It doesn't want to boot to the hooked up Sun
monitor, and yes, a type 5c keyboard and optical mouse are connected too. It
boots to the serial terminal, and I get a message "Memory Address not
Aligned", then the ok prompt.
	Haven't had a chance to search online yet. This is my fist foray
into the world of Sun. Hopefully I can get Solaris 8 on this puppy, then
move to NetBSD...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

From csmith at amdocs.com  Fri Mar 22 10:58:14 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Feldman, Robert [mailto:Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com]

> Unfortunately, the only handy source for LCD screens for 
> pocket/palmtops is
> another palmtop (i.e., one that is broken in some other way. 
> The screens
> generally were custom ordered, and are not found on the 
> surplus market. This
> is certainly the case for the HP LX palmtops. Thaddeus 
> Computing, the main
> repair center in the US for the LX, cannibalizes broken units 
> for parts to
> fix ones sent to them for repairs.

Well, I was hoping I would get lucky with this one, since it's
more like a scientific calculator than a computer.  It's a 
very long (for a calculator) dot matrix lcd.  One single line,
or maybe two, of good characters, at a relatively low resolution.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Fri Mar 22 10:59:32 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: ApplicationDEC 433MP server
Message-ID: <3C9B62F4.92DD3629@adelphia.net>

Hi All..

Still looking for info, docs, etc on this beast of a 486 server...
anyone else out there have one?



--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From wonko at arkham.ws  Fri Mar 22 11:08:14 2002
From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
In-Reply-To: <3C9ACF72.2080808@aurora.regenstrief.org>; from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:30:10AM -0500
References: <3C9ACF72.2080808@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <20020322120814.M3829@wintermute.arkham.ws>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:30:10AM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> BTW: the TU81PLUS is a real beauty. It's so much fun to
> write a filesystem dump to it, watch the reels spin and
> smoothly write the dump to tape. It is streaming the
> whole time. Very slick. You gotta see this.

i have seen this.  it's a wonderous thing.  god the TU81+ rocks.  they just
don't make tape drives like that anymore.

-brian

-- 
"Oh, shut up Buddha."  -Jesus Christ (South Park)

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Mar 22 11:14:35 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B748B.14088.53A07147@localhost>

> This reminds me...

> I have a "pocket" computer, which is, as far as I can tell,
> nearly identical to the above TRS-80, except made by some
> other company.  (Don't remember which)  Does anyone know a
> source for LCD screens for these things?   My screen is 
> cracked, and I'd actually like to use this thing again.

When it's a PC1, then is should be a Sharp 1210.
The PC2 is I think a 1500 and the PC4 a Casio something.

1210s are by now somewhat rare. and I got realy no
information about spare LCDs.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From bqt at update.uu.se  Fri Mar 22 11:22:33 2002
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
In-Reply-To: <3C9B4515.9090405@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:

> Ahhrgh! Well, thanks for letting me know. I knew about the power
> sequencing chain and the cables and stuff, but where the heck should
> one get those jumpers from? I was hoping there was some jumper of
> dip-switch on the inside that would let me override this. May be
> I should cut one of the cable that I do have and just cut the two
> wires short? Would that make a functional jumper? Or has anyone
> gotten a box of those and could give me one?

I haven't really looked inside one of those, so I have no idea how it
looks like, but I cannot imagine it being any more complicated than just
shorting two pins...

I might have one or two somewhere, if I look hard enough. But I'm in
Sweden, so you'd probably prefer to get them from someone closer...

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


From pechter at bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com  Fri Mar 22 11:39:51 2002
From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: MiniMINC
In-Reply-To: <200203220334.WAA2644078@shell.TheWorld.com> from Megan at "Mar
 21, 2002 10:34:37 pm"
Message-ID: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com>

> (This was back in the days when the PDT-11/150 was sold to DEC
> employees and we had a broad-spectrum mailing list to discuss
> it -- I was a moderator for it)
> 
> 					Megan Gentry
> 					Former RT-11 Developer
> 
> +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
> | Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
> | Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
> | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
> | Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
> | (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
> +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

That was back when computing was fun.

Boy, I miss that list and the fun stuff the PDT could do.
If it only had a 10mb hard disk...

Trying to sysgen on dual RX01's was hell.

Bill

-- 
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
  bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 22 12:04:33 2002
From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
Message-ID: 

> > Things I'm looking for:
> > - HP-85
> > - Exidy Sorcerer
> > - NEC PC-8201a
> > - Commodore 128D
> > - TRS-80 pocket PC (PC1)
> > - Panasonic RL-H1000 Pocket PC

I don't have a PC-1 but I have both a PC-3 and a PC-6 that I'd be willing to 
part with. Both are in excellent condition in the original boxes with the 
docs. If anyone wants one, make an offer off-list.

SteveRob


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Fri Mar 22 12:11:34 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine 
        "TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)" (Feb  4, 23:40)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> 
	<20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
	<20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> 
	<001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> 
	<3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> 
	<10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
	<3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Feb 4, ie ages ago, at 23:40, Jerome Fine wrote:
> >Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > >On Feb 4, 17:48, Jerome Fine wrote:

> > > (a)  As far as I know, there are no hobby versions, as yet, for
TSX-PLUS.
> > > However, if there is enough interest, perhaps we could inquire.  I
would
> > > certainly be willing to contact S&H to see if they might be
interested.
> > > Since I was a sort of distributor for S&H at one point and I already
have
> > > my own license, I would be able to support hobby users.  SO!!!!  Are
> > > there any potential TSX-PLUS hobby users out there who would like
> > > to have this software?

> > Yes!

> ONE!  I will inquire if the total reaches FIVE!

Didn't anyone else show interest in TSX?

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From marvin at rain.org  Fri Mar 22 12:17:39 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org>


In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.

From allain at panix.com  Fri Mar 22 12:17:52 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Basic GIGI usage
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322060851.0296ab20@mail.njd.concentric.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020322112624.029ae730@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <001301c1d1cd$e1ce9e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>

> For some reason I thought all the GIGI terminals had BASIC in ROM 
> I was probably mistaken.  

They are certainly of value, hang on to it.
The last time I used one was 1985, all I know
for sure is that it had some form of _ReGIS_
(Remote Graphics Instruction Set) in it, which
can be as demanding (and more) CPU-wise 
as BASIC.

John A.



From oliv555 at arrl.net  Fri Mar 22 12:45:24 2002
From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: IBM PPC Laptop on eBay
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9B7BC4.CEBB6CB5@arrl.net>



Doc wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote:
> 
> > It must not be that great a deal, as it hasn't sold yet via buy it now.  I
> > took several long looks at it, and even went so far as to look at the
> > sellers me page.  First off, it's got one of those G_D damned
> > cursor-chasers.  That's one big turn off right there.  Then, after the page
> > loaded (faster than the auction itself) I read some of his other
> > restrictions.  No pickup, no questions, ships whenever he gets around to it,
> > I couldn't see one reason why I would want to do business with this schmuck.
> > It's too bad, I would have liked to bid on it, but anyone who won't allow a
> > local pickup (even if I can't take advantage of it) I absolutely won't do
> > business with.    Stupid sellers.
> 
>   That's exactly what I came up with.  The last couple of 860s that
> crossed ebay weren't nearly as well-set-up and went for $750+.  This guy
> not only has no clue what he's selling, but comes off like a serious
> jerk.  I'd still snatch it if I had 5 bills.
> 
>         Doc
> 
> P.S.-- If you want IBM's official internal name for that mouse, you'll
> have to ask off-list.


Looks like this guy may have several of these. I bid on his previous
860 just 2 weeks ago, it sold for $444.

-nick


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Mar 22 12:50:03 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>


> In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.

D'oh.

Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
like that.

Servus
H.


--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From donm at cts.com  Fri Mar 22 14:13:13 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting  programs
 (fwd)
Message-ID: 



Joe, the chap below contacted meabout the Tango stuff that I sent to
you, and has been unable to reach you at the most recent address I have
for you.  Would you please contact him.  Thanks.

						 - don

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:47:31 +0800
From: S. K. Li 
To: Don Maslin 
Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting  programs


Unfortunately that email address is not O.K. too. Do you have another one?
Thanks.

SK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Maslin" 
To: "S. K. Li" 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs


>
>
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, S. K. Li wrote:
>
> > Many thanks for your reply. Would you give me Joe's updated email
address? I
> > could not reach him with the old one. Thanks.
>
> I saw an email from him today from `rigdonj@cfl.rr.com'.  Try that one.
>
> - don
>
>
>



From mikeford at socal.rr.com  Fri Mar 22 14:47:49 2002
From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:39 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org>
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com>
Message-ID: 

>In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
>search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
>to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.

There was a forth rom, and a book from Rockwell for Forth on the AIM65. I
still have the book, not sure on the rom.



From uban at ubanproductions.com  Fri Mar 22 16:11:32 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Thomas W. Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Semour Cray Lecture
Message-ID: <200203222211.g2MMBWN8022404@ubanproductions.com>

This is a nice lecture. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the
book that is referenced in the lecture:

J. E. Thornton. Design of a Computer: The Control Data 6600. Scott Foresman and Company, 1970

--tom

At 10:19 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey y'all ... I just found a web-based version of a lecture 
>Gordon Bell gave about Seymour Cray in 1997. It's wonderful.
>
>http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/craytalk/sld001.htm  
>
>There are detailed notes under many of the slides. The last slide 
>is hilarious and kind of touching.
>
>brian
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>_| _| _|  Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
>_| _| _|  Tel:   1-510-559-7930   Fax: 1-510-525-6889
>_| _| _|  Email: brian@quarterbyte.com
>_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com
>
>
>

From rdd at rddavis.org  Fri Mar 22 16:18:00 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
In-Reply-To: <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> <20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> <3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> <10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20020322221759.GA9251@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Pete Turnbull, from writings of Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 06:11:34PM +0000:
> Didn't anyone else show interest in TSX?

If I recall correctly, I did.  Weren't there at least five of us?

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 17:05:06 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322061710.029943d8@mail.njd.concentric.com> from "Tony Eros" at Mar 22, 2 06:26:35 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1266 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020322/0a31c6dd/attachment.ksh
From uban at ubanproductions.com  Fri Mar 22 17:06:02 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: test
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020322170506.01ec1a68@mira-sjc5-2.cisco.com>

test


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 17:09:11 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.)
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Mar 22, 2 10:01:49 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 873 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020322/1cfc30dd/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 22 17:21:48 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: FS: HP 7470A paper plotter...
In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677A1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Mar 22, 2 11:50:57 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2209 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020322/42ce1968/attachment.ksh
From blstuart at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 22 17:57:19 2002
From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TRS-80 pocket (Was: I'm looking for ___, will trade ___.) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:01:49 -0600 .
	<7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> 
Message-ID: 

In message <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B5C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>, Christ
opher Smith writes:
>I have a "pocket" computer, which is, as far as I can tell,
>nearly identical to the above TRS-80, except made by some
>other company.  (Don't remember which)

Sounds like the Sharp PC-1500.  I've become familiar with
that recently since I got one at a local hamfest.  Had to
fix a couple of things, but it's mostly working (except
I still need to replace the rechargable batteries in the
printer).

>  Does anyone know a
>source for LCD screens for these things?   My screen is 
>cracked, and I'd actually like to use this thing again.

Sorry, can't help you there.  But along the same lines, if
anyone knows a source for the little pens for the printer/
plotter, I'd love to get some replacements.

Thanks,
Brian L. Stuart

From bshannon at tiac.net  Fri Mar 22 18:00:40 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9BC5A8.3EFE2746@tiac.net>

805x processors cannot (without external hardware) write to program memory, so any
line assembler would be dependant on some (common) hardware tricks to write to
program space.

Most 805x applications are single chip anyway, so this is not too common.  The
closest thing that comes to mind is an 805x Forth that ~may~ have an assembler
extension.

John Chris Wren wrote:

>         D'oh!  I feel stupid.  Don't ask me why I read 65xx with you asked about
> 805x.  I've been writing 805x for about 15 years, and I've never run across
> one.  I've though about writing one from time to time, but never got around
> to it.  Since I usually have a pretty tight embedded system, I use all host
> side tools.  If you write one, I'd be interested in looking at it.
>
>         --John
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 0:05 AM
> > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
> >
> >
> > John Chris Wren wrote:
> > >
> > >         The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II
> > monitor had a nice
> > > little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
> > > compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years
> > ago), I stripped
> > > that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.  You
> > > could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit
> > of typing.
> >
> > The 6502 has a very simple and regular instruction set that is easy to
> > encode.
> > What is 805x controler like?
> >
> > > > The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> > > > yet I've never
> > > > seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty" line-by-line
> > > > assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> > > > have.  Do any of
> > > > you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> > > > 805x series
> > > > that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?
> >
> > Lets not forget a version of basic for the apple was all hand coded with
> > no real source?
> > --
> > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
> >


From bshannon at tiac.net  Fri Mar 22 18:04:58 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322061710.029943d8@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BC6AA.B960E30@tiac.net>

Its a pretty simple problem.  Somethings wrong with the termination
of the video signal, which is most likely a ECL-level differential signal
to the monitor (which has a lot of electronics inside).  Not standard at
all.

Check your cables and (fancy) connectors.  Could be the cables as much or
more than the monitor itself.

Tony Eros wrote:

> I've seeing some screen jitters on the screen of my Symbolics 3620.  The
> characters are sort of doubled up and horizontally offset, as if you had
> two copies of the same text on a pair of overhead slides, lined them up one
> over the other and then moved the top one about a half-character to the
> right.  Take the whole thing, make it kind of blurry and you have the
> effect I see.
>
> Is this a standard sort of monitor problem that is easily fixed by tweaking
> some internal pot (I hope!) or is it likely some bigger problem?  Does
> anyone have any maintenance documentation on this beast or a spare monitor
> they don't need?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Tony


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Mar 22 19:16:10 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com> 
Message-ID: <3C9BD75A.569C282C@rain.org>


In case it wasn't clear, this is not an AIM 65 but rather a Rockwell
System 65. It has a ziff socket on the front (28+ pins or so) along with
a couple of FH Floppy drives. I *think* I have the Forth Rom set for the
AIM65 but it has been quite a while since I've looked at that system.

Mike Ford wrote:
> 
> >In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> >search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> >to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
> 
> There was a forth rom, and a book from Rockwell for Forth on the AIM65. I
> still have the book, not sure on the rom.

From wild.hare at bigpond.com  Fri Mar 22 19:17:30 2002
From: wild.hare at bigpond.com (wild.hare)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> <20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> <3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> <10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c1d208$815e3250$b6c18690@NEWHARE>

And another one to be counted for TSX-Plus interest.

Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Turnbull" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)


> On Feb 4, ie ages ago, at 23:40, Jerome Fine wrote:
> > >Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > > >On Feb 4, 17:48, Jerome Fine wrote:
>
> > > > (a)  As far as I know, there are no hobby versions, as yet, for
> TSX-PLUS.
> > > > However, if there is enough interest, perhaps we could inquire.  I
> would
> > > > certainly be willing to contact S&H to see if they might be
> interested.
> > > > Since I was a sort of distributor for S&H at one point and I already
> have
> > > > my own license, I would be able to support hobby users.  SO!!!!  Are
> > > > there any potential TSX-PLUS hobby users out there who would like
> > > > to have this software?
>
> > > Yes!
>
> > ONE!  I will inquire if the total reaches FIVE!
>
> Didn't anyone else show interest in TSX?
>
> --
> Pete Peter Turnbull
> Network Manager
> University of York
>


From zaft at azstarnet.com  Fri Mar 22 19:27:30 2002
From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: WTB: DEC MicroVAX II
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020322182709.0289ebe0@mail.azstarnet.com>


         Where are you?

         SCSI controllers for MicroVAX II are very expensive.

At 11:45 AM 3/19/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Including drives, memory, SCSI controller and ready to go.


From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Fri Mar 22 19:50:18 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> 
			<20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
			<20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> 
			<001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> 
			<3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> 
			<10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
			<3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BDF5A.F7D773B9@compsys.to>

>Pete Turnbull wrote:

> > On Feb 4, ie ages ago, at 23:40, Jerome Fine wrote:
> > >Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > > >On Feb 4, 17:48, Jerome Fine wrote:
> > > > (a)  As far as I know, there are no hobby versions, as yet, for
> TSX-PLUS.
> > > > However, if there is enough interest, perhaps we could inquire.  I
> would
> > > > certainly be willing to contact S&H to see if they might be
> interested.
> > > > Since I was a sort of distributor for S&H at one point and I already
> have
> > > > my own license, I would be able to support hobby users.  SO!!!!  Are
> > > > there any potential TSX-PLUS hobby users out there who would like
> > > > to have this software?
> > > Yes!
> > ONE!  I will inquire if the total reaches FIVE!
> Didn't anyone else show interest in TSX?

Jerome Fine replies:

I DID inquire from S&H as to the possibility of a TSX-PLUS hobby
license.  Basically the answer was that they were waiting to see what
Mentec would do - if anything - and in particular the ACTUAL wording
of any updated RT-11 license from Mentec.

I do agree that I have not pursued the matter due to a number of factors:
(a)  I was in the midst of  (and I am still far from completed) switching
to a "newer" hardware system and upgrading from W95 to W98.  While
this might seem trivial to most of you, I has been quite difficult for me.
(b) The word on the "street" was that Mentec was just about to release
a more reasonable hobby license for RT-11.  While I will not go into
the details, in the last couple of weeks it now seems most likely that
the difficulty lies with Mentec in general and their difficulty to finalize
the more reasonable license in particular.  I doubt that Mentec is
prepared to discuss the matter, so I don't know if they are concerned
about PDP-11 software revenues being impacted or whatever.

However, it is my understanding that Mentec's intention was to
sell a CD, possibly at a price which would provide more profit than
allowing users to share their own copies of any distributions which
Mentec considered eligible.  And since I have never been made
aware of even hints of what the RT-11 license might contain, I
don't know if the CD method of buying from Mentec was going
to be the only option allowed to acquire the RT-11 distributions
that were allowed under the license.

In any case, since there were so few inquiries for TSX-PLUS and
I was and am still so busy, I dropped the ball.  But until Mentec
makes the more reasonable license available, it seems that S&H
wants to just wait and see.

If a couple of others all inquire (in addition to Turnbull and Davis),
I will inquire again.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Fri Mar 22 19:50:27 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis" 
        "Re: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)" (Mar 22, 17:18)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> 
	<20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
	<20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> 
	<001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> 
	<3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> 
	<10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
	<3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> 
	<10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
	<20020322221759.GA9251@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <10203230150.ZM16271@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 22, 17:18, R. D. Davis wrote:
> Quothe Pete Turnbull, from writings of Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 06:11:34PM
+0000:
> > Didn't anyone else show interest in TSX?
>
> If I recall correctly, I did.  Weren't there at least five of us?

I thought there were at least three or four, but I wasn't sure about more
-- and it's not worth Jerome's while to do anything unless there's enough
interest.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From TMWillis at research.att.com  Fri Mar 22 20:22:40 2002
From: TMWillis at research.att.com (TMWillis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: free Tektronix 7603 manual for shipping costs
Message-ID: <3C9BE6F0.A2A8B718@research.att.com>

J. Darren Peterson:

I realize you posted the e-mail below two years ago, but I am wondering
if you are still looking for a good home for your Tek 7603 manual.  I
just recently acquired one and I am trying to fix it up.  You can
contact me at: tmwillis@worldnet.att.net.  Thanks for your generosity.

               Fellow Tektronix enthusiast  Tom Willis

From: J. Darren Peterson (jdarren@ala.net)
Date: 02/21/00-08:17:28 AM Z

I would like to find a home for a Tektronix 7603 / R7603 Oscilloscope
Service Manual and will give it for the cost of shipping.  The shipping
will be $3.20 for USPS Priority Mail.  I will send to first person to
contact.

Thanks.


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Fri Mar 22 20:39:46 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com> <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c1d214$00039c20$388f70d8@default>

I have a complete set of manuals for it down in the shop someplace. I
will try and locate them next week.  I looked it up in Haddock's book
and he calls it a KIM-1 compatible. A 1K and 4K model were available. In
production by April of 1979. Cost from $375 to $599 for unit in a case.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65


>
> In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
>


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Fri Mar 22 20:49:26 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com> <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org>
Message-ID: <005901c1d215$5976f940$388f70d8@default>

Also Haddock stated that some models had 4K assembler/editor in ROM and
8K Basic in ROM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Johnston" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: Rockewell System 65


>
> In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
>


From mhstein at canada.com  Fri Mar 22 21:12:44 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
Message-ID: <01C1D1F1.32E24E20@mse-d03>

That's it all right; dual 5" floppies, 16K SRAM, OS in ROM, RS232 
& Parallel, and lots of optional modules for developing, emulating
& programming R6500 stuff & the R6500/1 single-chip micros.

mike
---------------Original Message---------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:50:03 +0100
From: "Hans Franke" 
Subject: Re: Rockewell System 65

> In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.

D'oh.

Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
like that.

Servus
H.


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 21:18:01 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References:  <3C9BC5A8.3EFE2746@tiac.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c1d219$58c4ea80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I've got a primitive disassembler, included with the PAULMON2 monitor,
intended to be loaded as an add-on under the control of the monitor, and I
thought I'd parse the input from the console in modes, using table-lookup
during the character-by-character input.  That will be simple but not
particularly efficient of memory space.  Current generation memory sizes don't
impede the process much, though.  The 89C420 has a potential for an 80K
program memory with the on-chip 16K mapped in and out under control of the
SFR's.  SInce I have plenty of assemblers and compilers, just not a
line-by-line assembler source for incorporation in the monitor, I'm probably
going to have to roll my own.

Another thing I'd like to find is some 'C' source for an MSDOS-compatible file
system.  There's no reason an 805x development effort has to be PC-based, and
even if it is, there's certainly no reason for it to be tethered to a PC for
every little tweak.

The 89C420 runs fastest out of external memory, allowing 20ns code space
fetches except on page-boundary crossings, and 40ns data space accesses.
With one instruction cycle taking however long it takes to fetch it, I'd say
that's almost fast enough for an old established architecture like the 805x
core.  This one executes a single cycle instruction in a single system clock
cycle and it divides the input clock by 1, in the default.

If you work that architecture, this one's certainly worth a look, though it's
not cheap.  A hot-rod seldom is.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Shannon" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?


> 805x processors cannot (without external hardware) write to program memory,
so any
> line assembler would be dependant on some (common) hardware tricks to write
to
> program space.
>
> Most 805x applications are single chip anyway, so this is not too common.
The
> closest thing that comes to mind is an 805x Forth that ~may~ have an
assembler
> extension.
>
> John Chris Wren wrote:
>
> >         D'oh!  I feel stupid.  Don't ask me why I read 65xx with you asked
about
> > 805x.  I've been writing 805x for about 15 years, and I've never run
across
> > one.  I've though about writing one from time to time, but never got
around
> > to it.  Since I usually have a pretty tight embedded system, I use all
host
> > side tools.  If you write one, I'd be interested in looking at it.
> >
> >         --John
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
> > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 0:05 AM
> > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > > Subject: Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
> > >
> > >
> > > John Chris Wren wrote:
> > > >
> > > >         The reason for that is generally memory.  The Apple II
> > > monitor had a nice
> > > > little one built in, and it was a work of art, as far as the opcode
> > > > compression and decoding table went.  One time (many years
> > > ago), I stripped
> > > > that portion out of the Apple monitor for another personal project.
You
> > > > could do the same.  It wasn't very difficult to do, just a bit
> > > of typing.
> > >
> > > The 6502 has a very simple and regular instruction set that is easy to
> > > encode.
> > > What is 805x controler like?
> > >
> > > > > The 805x microcontrollers have been around since the mid-80's,
> > > > > yet I've never
> > > > > seen a monitor program for them with a "quick-and-dirty"
line-by-line
> > > > > assembler in it as many of the debuggers for the MOT monitors
> > > > > have.  Do any of
> > > > > you guys have a source file of a line-by-line assembler for the
> > > > > 805x series
> > > > > that can easily be adapted for inclusion in a monitor?
> > >
> > > Lets not forget a version of basic for the apple was all hand coded with
> > > no real source?
> > > --
> > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
> > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
> > >
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:51 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
Message-ID: <002101c1d219$bc8f2e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yes, that was the commercial development system for the Rockwell parts ... I
tossed out the complete set of manuals for it about a year ago ...  ...
I'd hung onto them knowing someone could benefit, but, as always seems to be
the case, I toss 'em and soon enough somebody could've used 'em.  It's like
washing the car to make it rain, I guess.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rockewell System 65


>
> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
>
> D'oh.
>
> Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
> for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
> like that.
>
> Servus
> H.
>
>
> --
> VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> http://www.vcfe.org/
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 21:22:55 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com> <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org> <005901c1d215$5976f940$388f70d8@default>
Message-ID: <002901c1d21a$066130e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

The System65 I had in front of me much of '85-'86 had a couple of floppies
built into the front of the box and used a terminal-like console, though I
doubt it was a terminal.

I think the tools were on diskette, and not in ROM.  The AIM BASIC, FORTH, and
ASSEMBLER, were in ROM, though.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "John R. Keys Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:49 PM
Subject: Follow-up was Re: Rockewell System 65


> Also Haddock stated that some models had 4K assembler/editor in ROM and
> 8K Basic in ROM.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marvin Johnston" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
> Subject: Rockewell System 65
>
>
> >
> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
> >
>
>


From ccraft at springsips.com  Fri Mar 22 21:34:56 2002
From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <02032220345600.09159@ccraft.home>

I've been lurking on the list subject, but decided to chime in...

On Wednesday 20 March 2002 20:24, you wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:
> > 1) Ok, here are the two things I was considering doing to change the
> > mailing list settings....
> >
> > A) Reject posts to the list which contain any kind of HTML content. I
> > think this would be fairly unobtrusive - most people don't want HTML
> > posts here anyways. And - I would bet that most all SPAM contains some
> > form of HTML, so this might not get rid of all SPAM forever, but I think
> > it would make the very few that come here dwindle to even less. Comments?
<<>>
I think I like the idea of filtering out HTML tags (conversion to plaintext a 
la w3c/lynx, filter software available on freshmeat.net) and automatically 
prefixing "[OL]" the subject lines of non-subscribers' emails with "[OL]" the 
best, but it has been way too long since I've managed a list that allowed any 
sort of automatic non-owner posts.

However...
> 	Doc
>
> P.S. -- I have a 4U Aspen Alpine you can have.  275mHz 21064 Alpha.
> Big, noisy bastard.
>
> 	Doc
This grabbed my interest.  Is it an SRM-console Alpha?  The only Alpha I own 
is an ARC-console machine, which makes it rather undesirable.  If Jay doesn't 
want it, could I chime in? :)  (I really like big, noisy bas^H^H^Hmachines!)

Sincerely,
Chris.
-- 
Chris Craft, NOC Meister/Postmaster
SpringSips.com
ccraft@springsips.com
(970)871-0913 x 24

From marvin at rain.org  Fri Mar 22 21:54:11 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <200203221739.g2MHdqf00604@bg-tc-ppp464.monmouth.com> <3C9B7543.6CBC9D96@rain.org> <000d01c1d214$00039c20$388f70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3C9BFC63.154C7F9B@rain.org>


Thanks, I had not thought of checking that book. Unfortunately, the
Rockwell machine mentioned there is the AIM 65 (which this is most
definitely not.) I did another Google search using - +Rockwell +"System
65" -, and ended up with some results this time. A German site at
http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_058.htm#System 65 gives a
brief description. So far though, I haven't seen any pictures for it.



"John R. Keys Jr." wrote:
> 
> I have a complete set of manuals for it down in the shop someplace. I
> will try and locate them next week.  I looked it up in Haddock's book
> and he calls it a KIM-1 compatible. A 1K and 4K model were available. In
> production by April of 1979. Cost from $375 to $599 for unit in a case.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marvin Johnston" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:17 PM
> Subject: Rockewell System 65
> 
> >
> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
> >

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 22 22:33:55 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 I/O ports
Message-ID: <20020323045400.GUHO2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 
> You mena it's beyond the ingenuity of these people who connect up 
> scanners/cameras/LCD panels/... to the ZX81 to add a serial port?

No, no, I meant a ZX81 doesn't have one built in.  Of course we use the
Z80A-SIO (and -PIO).  Modems were also commercially produced in the
mid-eighties which allowed a simple mod so they could also be used as
serial ports.
 
> I've not tried it, but I can see no good reason why you couldn't link up 
> just about any common serial chip/UART to the expansion connector, and 
> then buffer the outputs of that to/from RS232 levels. 

It's been done any number of ways.

ZX-TEAM also has a ZX81-hosted BBS ;>)

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 22 22:51:50 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Pete Turnbull 

> > Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a
> 6116?
> 
> I don't have either the service manual or my ZX81 handy, so I can't
check,
> but as far as I remember, just remove the 4118 and replace with a 6116.

I'll check it out.

>  There might be a wire link to change (if so, it's obvious) but I don't
> remember having to do that.

There are no links on the board for different memory configurations.

>  It is good practice to fit a socket, though.

I always do when I replace an unsocketed IC on a ZX81.

>  A few ZX81's had a pair of 2114's instead of the normal 4118, which were
> in short supply at one time, but the same principle applies (the PCB is
the
> same).

I read that using the 2114s saved Uncle Sir Clive 25p per unit.  I've also
noticed that on the earlier boards all the ICs were socketed, but the later
ones were spotty, socket-wise.  Typical Sinclair chintziness.

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Fri Mar 22 23:34:07 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
Message-ID: <20020323053549.THMZ7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Douglas Quebbeman 

> Personal preference here is for the traditional macro assembler
> generating .HEX files... SIMTEL has quite an extensive collection
> of software for the 8031/8032/8051/8052 and derivatives...

Doug, does the SIMTEL20 repository still exist?  Where?

I don't mean simtel.com where all the DOS and Windows stuff is . . .

Glen
0/0


From mhstein at canada.com  Fri Mar 22 23:40:47 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: Wright Punch up for auction
Message-ID: <01C1D203.8DBA0D80@mse-d03>

Gee, Brian, I offered one of these right here at the same time
as that pile of IBM docs that I sent to Norm & you; ya shoulda
spoken up.

How are you guys coming along with scanning those manuals?
Anything on line yet?

mike

-----------------Original Message-----------------

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:08:22 -0800
From: "Brian Knittel" 
Subject: Wright Punch up for auction

There's a Wright Punch up for auction at www.govliquidation.com. 
The Wright Punch is a cool little manual hollerith card keypunch 
machine. Someone ought to get it!  

It slipped by me -- auction closes at 8 PM eastern time, that's 
less than an hour from now. Sealed Bid sale, $35 min. The 
downside is you have to pick it up in Norfolk, VA next week, and 
take a big pile of other junk along with it. You'll need a 
pickup.   

If you're interested it's event 623, lot 46, item 37.

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=25154

Brian


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 23:43:36 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at all,
though I definitely remember that there was such a thing.  Mostek made a
couple of pseudo-static RAM parts that were on a ~2716-compatible pinout.  Was
that one of them?  I've got some 1K- and 2K- byte parts from those days but I
don't remember the numbers right offhand.

Perhaps someone could refresh my recollection.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: ZX81 and 6116


> > From: Pete Turnbull 
>
> > > Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a
> > 6116?
> >
> > I don't have either the service manual or my ZX81 handy, so I can't
> check,
> > but as far as I remember, just remove the 4118 and replace with a 6116.
>
> I'll check it out.
>
> >  There might be a wire link to change (if so, it's obvious) but I don't
> > remember having to do that.
>
> There are no links on the board for different memory configurations.
>
> >  It is good practice to fit a socket, though.
>
> I always do when I replace an unsocketed IC on a ZX81.
>
> >  A few ZX81's had a pair of 2114's instead of the normal 4118, which were
> > in short supply at one time, but the same principle applies (the PCB is
> the
> > same).
>
> I read that using the 2114s saved Uncle Sir Clive 25p per unit.  I've also
> noticed that on the earlier boards all the ICs were socketed, but the later
> ones were spotty, socket-wise.  Typical Sinclair chintziness.
>
> Glen
> 0/0
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 22 23:50:18 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
References: <20020323053549.THMZ7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <001101c1d22e$9cdde180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I found a number of hits there from GOOGLE, but found, also, that they were
apparently out of date and inaccessible.

A traditional macro-assembler is a wonderful tool, but probably inappropriate
for inclusion in a debug monitor intended to reside in the processor's
on-board ROM.

I'm wanting to stuff a debugger with line-by-line assembly/disassembly
capability comparable to MSDOS' DEBUG or, at least, CP/M's DDT, to coreside
with a relatively powerful debugger in the on-board FLASH in an 89C420.  This
part can run the debugger from its internal ROM, yet, by means of a little SFR
trickery, run application code in a full 64K code space map in external
memory, together with a full (almost) 64K external data RAM map as well.  I
find that notion appealing.  That way I don't have to make last-minute tweaks
tethered to a PC, but, rather, can operate in native mode.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)


> > From: Douglas Quebbeman 
>
> > Personal preference here is for the traditional macro assembler
> > generating .HEX files... SIMTEL has quite an extensive collection
> > of software for the 8031/8032/8051/8052 and derivatives...
>
> Doug, does the SIMTEL20 repository still exist?  Where?
>
> I don't mean simtel.com where all the DOS and Windows stuff is . . .
>
> Glen
> 0/0
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 23 00:08:53 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
Message-ID: 

  Wasn't there some mention of these things a few weeks ago?  Was
somebody looking for one?  I seem to have a couple. It's a flip-over
MCA/ISA adapter.
  Speaking of PS/2s and 3270s, did Sridhar permanently toast himself?
He's been notably absent lately.

	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 00:42:03 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface (Doc Shipley)
References: 
Message-ID: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Doc Shipley wrote:
>   Speaking of PS/2s and 3270s, did Sridhar permanently toast himself?
> He's been notably absent lately.

  He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)

  There have been some sights around here that I'd swear were about to
make his little mainframe-hackin' head explode. ;)

       -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From red at bears.org  Sat Mar 23 01:06:50 2002
From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)

So now I'm sitting here in my toner-stained pants, sucking on a bloody
knuckle, and I only want to know one thing.

Where the @*(*& did I go wrong?

ok
r.


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 23 01:16:14 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)
>
>   There have been some sights around here that I'd swear were about to
> make his little mainframe-hackin' head explode. ;)

  To which, I assume, Mr. McGuire is totally immune?

	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 01:26:49 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: Re: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface (r. 'bear' stricklin)
References: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15516.11833.338146.810803@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote:
> >   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> > getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> > beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)
> 
> So now I'm sitting here in my toner-stained pants, sucking on a bloody
> knuckle, and I only want to know one thing.
> 
> Where the @*(*& did I go wrong?

  Hey, don't sweat it.  I'm sitting here at 2:30AM hacking on sendmail
configs.

  Short of a bottle of chloroform or a really big net, I don't think
there'll be any of those "this --> <-- big" bikinis gracing my bedroom
floor anytime soon. :-<

          -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 01:32:47 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: Re: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface (Doc)
References: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15516.12191.498451.609121@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Doc wrote:
> >   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> > getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> > beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)
> >
> >   There have been some sights around here that I'd swear were about to
> > make his little mainframe-hackin' head explode. ;)
> 
>   To which, I assume, Mr. McGuire is totally immune?

  Are you kidding?  I've just escaped living near College Park, Maryland
for the past nine years.  I haven't seen this many heterosexual women
in the same place at the same time in, oh, about nine years.  I now
find it prudent to apply a liberal quantity of ScotchGard(tm) to my
car seats before going out.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 23 02:00:42 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)
>
>   There have been some sights around here that I'd swear were about to
> make his little mainframe-hackin' head explode. ;)

  BTW, tell the man I finally couldn't stand it.  I bought that PS/2
Model 77.  It's the 66MHz DX2.  Tell him I also have a 3Meg Image/A
adapter and a 16/32 Piper Sound card.  I even have ADF files....

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 23 02:09:11 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: <15516.12191.498451.609121@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   Are you kidding?  I've just escaped living near College Park, Maryland
> for the past nine years.  I haven't seen this many heterosexual women
> in the same place at the same time in, oh, about nine years.  I now
> find it prudent to apply a liberal quantity of ScotchGard(tm) to my
> car seats before going out.

  Car seats?  Get a grip. Yes, literally, too.  At spring break, on the
beach or near it, a motorcycle is the *only* acceptable conveyance.

European or Russian only.


	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 02:17:58 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: Re: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface (Doc)
References: <15516.12191.498451.609121@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15516.14902.320723.676882@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Doc wrote:
>   Car seats?  Get a grip. Yes, literally, too.  At spring break, on the
> beach or near it, a motorcycle is the *only* acceptable conveyance.

  It's a Porsche 911 convertible.  Think you can make an exception to
that rule? ;)

> 
> European or Russian only.
> 

  Uh-huh.  Troublemaker. ;)

   -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From vcf at siconic.com  Sat Mar 23 02:28:27 2002
From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: A good glue guide
Message-ID: 


Here's an interesting site.  You tell it what two materials you want to
glue together and it makes recommendations.

http://www.thistothat.com/

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 23 03:14:42 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: <15516.14902.320723.676882@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> On March 23, Doc wrote:
> >   Car seats?  Get a grip. Yes, literally, too.  At spring break, on the
> > beach or near it, a motorcycle is the *only* acceptable conveyance.
>
>   It's a Porsche 911 convertible.  Think you can make an exception to
> that rule? ;)

  Grumble, mutter, curse...

  Are you _sure_ it's a convertible?

	Doc


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sat Mar 23 03:21:53 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" 
        "Re: ZX81 and 6116" (Mar 22, 22:43)
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
	<000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <10203230921.ZM16500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 22, 22:43, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at
all,
> though I definitely remember that there was such a thing.  Mostek made a
> couple of pseudo-static RAM parts that were on a ~2716-compatible pinout.
 Was
> that one of them?  I've got some 1K- and 2K- byte parts from those days
but I
> don't remember the numbers right offhand.
>
> Perhaps someone could refresh my recollection.

4118 is the same pinout as a 2716 except that pin 21 is the /WR line
instead of Vpp, and pin 19 is NC instead of A10.  It's a genuine static
part, 1K x 8.  A 6116 is similar, but 2K x 8, with A10 on pin 19.  There
are also low-power CMOS versions of the 6116.  Zilog made a "quasi-static
RAM" 4K x 8, called Z8132, but it's 28-pin.  They also, confusingly, made
16-pin dynamic RAMs 8K x 1 and 16K x 1 called Z6115 and Z6116, similar to
the more common 4116 DRAM.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sat Mar 23 03:25:25 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: "Glen Goodwin" 
        "ZX81 and 6116" (Mar 22, 23:51)
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <10203230925.ZM16504@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 22, 23:51, Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > From: Pete Turnbull 

> I read that using the 2114s saved Uncle Sir Clive 25p per unit.

When the 4118 was scarce, that was probably true.

> I've also
> noticed that on the earlier boards all the ICs were socketed, but the
later
> ones were spotty, socket-wise.  Typical Sinclair chintziness.

Not necessarily.  A soldered connection is generally more reliable than a
socketed one.  For that reason, many manufacturers solder most parts,
unless they contain firmware that might need changed, or are custom parts
subject to revision (PALs, ULAs, etc).

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Sat Mar 23 03:25:52 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 I/O ports 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:33:55 EST."
             <20020323045400.GUHO2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203230925.JAA11055@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:
> > From: Tony Duell 
> > You mena it's beyond the ingenuity of these people who connect up 
> > scanners/cameras/LCD panels/... to the ZX81 to add a serial port?
> 
> No, no, I meant a ZX81 doesn't have one built in.  Of course we use the
> Z80A-SIO (and -PIO).  Modems were also commercially produced in the
> mid-eighties which allowed a simple mod so they could also be used as
> serial ports.

Hmm...I did my ZX81 serial port in software!  It was only used to 
transfer data to the host computer, so it was pretty simple...
-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Sat Mar 23 06:04:48 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
References: 
Message-ID: <004501c1d262$ef4b4500$78469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" 
To: "Classic Computers" 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 01:08 AM
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface


>   Wasn't there some mention of these things a few weeks ago?  Was
> somebody looking for one?  I seem to have a couple. It's a flip-over
> MCA/ISA adapter.

I was looking for info on one a little while ago.  Found out what it is,
don't have much place for it.  I shot a msg to the NetBSD MCA devleoper, but
go no response.  Maybe the address is stale.  In any case, one of these days
I'll get around to offering it on the port-i386 list.  If anyone wants it
before then, let me know.

>   Speaking of PS/2s and 3270s, did Sridhar permanently toast himself?
> He's been notably absent lately.
>
> Doc

Bob


From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Sat Mar 23 08:40:33 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> 
		<20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
		<20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> 
		<001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> 
		<3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> 
		<10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
		<3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> 
		<10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
		<20020322221759.GA9251@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10203230150.ZM16271@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C93E0.F30376EF@compsys.to>

>Pete Turnbull wrote:

> >On Mar 22, 17:18, R. D. Davis wrote:
> > If I recall correctly, I did.  Weren't there at least five of us?
> I thought there were at least three or four, but I wasn't sure about more
> -- and it's not worth Jerome's while to do anything unless there's enough
> interest.

Jerome Fine replies:

Actually, I seem to remember that FIVE people did show interest.
I can check the archives.

However, until Mentec or S&H take a step by themselves, I don't
wish to pester S&H.  But if by the summer Mentec has not acted,
then I will contact S&H again.

There are potential problems.  Since TSX-PLUS requires RT-11
to be present - even just to be "booted" (TSX-PLUS normally
requires RT-11 to be booted first), only older versions of TSX-PLUS
could be used with SIMH at this point.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 23 08:52:08 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <10203230921.ZM16500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <002701c1d27a$4ed66100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

There were several makers that sported an xx15 type where the normal 16Kx1
dram was an xx16.  What these were, generally but not in all cases, were
products of a die shrink that resulted in a shorter refresh interval.  That
was certainly the case with the MOSTEK 4115's.  Those worked famously well in
applications like the Apple][ which was a big seller at the time.

more below ...

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Turnbull" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> On Mar 22, 22:43, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at
> all,
> > though I definitely remember that there was such a thing.  Mostek made a
> > couple of pseudo-static RAM parts that were on a ~2716-compatible pinout.
>  Was
> > that one of them?  I've got some 1K- and 2K- byte parts from those days
> but I
> > don't remember the numbers right offhand.
> >
> > Perhaps someone could refresh my recollection.
>
> 4118 is the same pinout as a 2716 except that pin 21 is the /WR line
> instead of Vpp, and pin 19 is NC instead of A10.  It's a genuine static
> part, 1K x 8.  A 6116 is similar, but 2K x 8, with A10 on pin 19.  There
> are also low-power CMOS versions of the 6116.  Zilog made a "quasi-static
> RAM" 4K x 8, called Z8132, but it's 28-pin.  They also, confusingly, made
> 16-pin dynamic RAMs 8K x 1 and 16K x 1 called Z6115 and Z6116, similar to
> the more common 4116 DRAM.
>
Yep ... they were an oddity all right.  I don't remember using them, but the
number certainly does ring a bell, as an oddity, of course.  It wasn't unusual
to look at such oddities as opportunity to save some dough on components,
since they often became "distress" merchandise on the surplus market.
>
> Pete Peter Turnbull
> Network Manager
> University of York
>
>


From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Sat Mar 23 08:54:03 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: List Archives
Message-ID: <3C9C970B.C412A9F9@compsys.to>

Hi Everyone,

Now that I have switched to my "newer" system with the
box that holds TEN 5 1/4" hard drives, I am thinking
of some house keeping on the files I maintain.

One very large mess is the set of classiccmp posts that I have
some interest in.  I would like to group them, but have not
decided on sub-sets as yet.  I am thinking of the following:

Classiccmp General
Classiccmp List (this post will go here)
Classiccmp Technical
Classiccmp Spam (including comments on spam)

Has anyone else set up their own sub-sets?  I guess I could try
these out and see how they work, but I though I would ask for
suggestions?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From mbg at TheWorld.com  Sat Mar 23 09:13:29 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk>
    <20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
    <20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
    <001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> <3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com>
    <10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
    <3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com>
    <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200203231513.KAA2789015@shell.TheWorld.com>

Add another one about TSX+... although I have a kit and a license from
when I was working on RT, I'd like to see if we can get something more
up-to-date...

I wish they would release the sources so it could continue to be
really supported.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 23 10:14:42 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:40 2005
Subject: old 6502 source files
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> 	<20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 	<20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> 	<001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> 	<3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> 	<10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 	<3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> 	<10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 	<20020322221759.GA9251@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10203230150.ZM16271@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C9C93E0.F30376EF@compsys.to>
Message-ID: <001201c1d286$5825afc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I was perusing some long undisturbed space on one of the drives here and found
a couple of things that might be of use to folks fiddling with old 8-bitters.

Among these is the 6502-based cross-assember for the MC6800 that Wayne Wall
worked up from his PAL-65 assembler.  It's in PAL-65 syntax, of course, but,
together with the opcode table, it will serve as a decent cross-assembler,
albeit without macro capability.  There are also a couple of other items, some
of which I've recently mentioned before, e.g. the source file for the FOCAL
interpreter that Wayne Wall developed for the Digital Group 6502 CPU board,
but, in this case, adapted for use with Peter Boyle's APEX OS for the
APPLE ][+.  It's the same one I distributed to those who wanted it before, but
since it's surfaced again, I'll offer to email it to whoever wants it, since I
got Wayne's permission to do so, provided he doesn't have to get involved in
any way.

There are also a couple of other P65 files, including the Apple RWTS routines
(so you don't have to type them in from the DOS manual) and a printer handler
for one of the popular printer boards for the Apple.

I'm putting this stuff together in a single ZIP file, and you can have that,
as-is.  Email me off-list with your request for that file if you want it.

Dick




From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sat Mar 23 10:26:46 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200203231626.g2NGQkK02540@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 22 Mar, Tony Duell wrote:

> Is the monitor based on a standard chassis that we might be able to find 
> documentation on?
Aha. I see. You never seen a Symbolics (monitor) from inside. These
console monitors are very special and very strange things. Mono screen,
some audio stuff in it, keyboard and mouse controller, ... and it is
connected to the machine with a single cable. They are completely
different from everything else on the world. 

The symptom sounds like a broken solder point that broke some
termination of the console cable. I recommend to resolder the solder
points in the monitor before every other action is taken. 
-- 



tschuess,
          Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz


From zmerch at 30below.com  Sat Mar 23 10:29:03 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d12a$f988ac80$de2c67cb@helpdesk>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that FLTLT\(AAFC\) Geoff Roberts may have mentioned these words:
>From: "Roger Merchberger" 

>> The only classic machine I can't get to print is my MicroVAX 3100/m38 -
>and
>> that's only because I can't get it to talk TCP/IP... :-( 
>
>Er, why not?  What version of VMS?

The usual... I don't have any paper-based documentation whatsoever -- all I
have is CD-ROM based, which needs DECWindows - but I can't get DECWindows
running without documentation. :-(

I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...
which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me, or 2) has
obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of ever
finding it there...

I used the VMS construct of DOS's 'copy con filename.txt' {I don't remember
what it is anymore -- it's been 6-9 months since I've even sparked up my
VAX} to try to do a few things on it, but it's so hard editing anything
that I took what little spare time I had towards other pursuits. :-/

The system:
VAXStation 3100/m38, 32Meg RAM, VMS Version 7.1 [the full monty - even has
the BASIC package in the distro - 11 disks worth!], (2) 1Gig hard drives
{RZ26s? I think - it's been a while}, 2Meg 8-plane grafix buffer [this is
the biotsch that won't config right for the terminal settings, hence no
text editors] 17" display, keyboard, mouse [of course] & I just got off
eBay 5 AUI->RJ45 transceivers [$22US shipped! Whoohoo!] so I won't have to
have thinnet strung all over my new ancient house - I can stick with Cat5.

The price I pay for having one sweet VAX - damn thing doesn't run for crap.
[1] ;-/

Anyone got a "VAXStation fer Dummies" book written yet? ;-)
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

[1] Well, OK - to be technical, the thing runs *great* - I just can't *do*
a frelling thing with it...
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 23 10:45:13 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface - OT -- cute babes
References: <15516.9147.8014.790153@phaduka.neurotica.com>
		 <15516.11833.338146.810803@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB119.48BE138F@jetnet.ab.ca>

Dave McGuire wrote:

> > >   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf coast thing is
> > > getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> > > beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)
> >
> > So now I'm sitting here in my toner-stained pants, sucking on a bloody
> > knuckle, and I only want to know one thing.
> >
> > Where the @*(*& did I go wrong?
> 
>   Hey, don't sweat it.  I'm sitting here at 2:30AM hacking on sendmail
> configs.
> 
>   Short of a bottle of chloroform or a really big net, I don't think
> there'll be any of those "this --> <-- big" bikinis gracing my bedroom
> floor anytime soon. :-<
> 
        Well here is a good way to practice to get the girls and still
not leave the safety of the computer room ***.
http://www.peachprincess.com/ 

BTW this was meant as private but that don't work on this list.

*** mind you this could change with VR improvements.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 23 11:11:27 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: List Archives
References: <3C9C970B.C412A9F9@compsys.to>
Message-ID: <3C9CB73F.97B008E6@jetnet.ab.ca>

"Jerome H. Fine" wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Now that I have switched to my "newer" system with the
> box that holds TEN 5 1/4" hard drives, I am thinking
> of some house keeping on the files I maintain.
> 
> One very large mess is the set of classiccmp posts that I have
> some interest in.  I would like to group them, but have not
> decided on sub-sets as yet.  I am thinking of the following:
> 
> Classiccmp General
> Classiccmp List (this post will go here)
> Classiccmp Technical
> Classiccmp Spam (including comments on spam)

What about Classicmp private? A way to send private messages like sales
or OT stuff. "the XZ7000 was a great dirt bike but ..." This looks good
so far as a sub-set list.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 11:29:44 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
In-Reply-To: Re: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface (Doc)
References: <15516.14902.320723.676882@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15516.48008.726765.690197@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Doc wrote:
> > >   Car seats?  Get a grip. Yes, literally, too.  At spring break, on the
> > > beach or near it, a motorcycle is the *only* acceptable conveyance.
> >
> >   It's a Porsche 911 convertible.  Think you can make an exception to
> > that rule? ;)
> 
>   Grumble, mutter, curse...
> 
>   Are you _sure_ it's a convertible?

  Want me to send you a picture? ;)

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From fmc at reanimators.org  Sat Mar 23 11:43:51 2002
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: HP9133 HDAs (was Re: DSQD Drives)
In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:09:10 +0000 (GMT)"
References: 
Message-ID: <200203231743.g2NHhp604710@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote (after Joe Rigdon):
> >    225s and 251s are handy to keep around since they'll replace a number of
> > OLD hard drives. I've used 225s to replace the dries inside of some of the
> > HP HP-IB disk drives.
> 
> The hard disks in my HP9133s _are_ ST225s. And AFAIK they're original 
> from HP.

Sounds like a 9133D, which did have a half-height ST225 inside.
The earlier 9133XVs used something full-height.  

-Frank McConnell


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 23 11:44:51 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A88B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> I found a number of hits there from GOOGLE, but found, also, that they were
> apparently out of date and inaccessible.
> 
> A traditional macro-assembler is a wonderful tool, but probably
inappropriate
> for inclusion in a debug monitor intended to reside in the processor's
> on-board ROM.

If you don't mind translating a not too-terribly-long
program for another processor, then I believe MIKBUG
for the 6800 may do ok. My first embedded
systems project was a 6800, and I included MIKBUG in
the ROM so that I could precisely what you want to
do.

The 8051 being a more generous chip register-wise,
translating it shouldn't be difficult. 

You can find at least one version here:

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A/mikbug.txt

Looks like a fun weekend project.

Regards,
-doug q

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 23 11:50:47 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A88C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > From: Douglas Quebbeman 
> 
> > Personal preference here is for the traditional macro assembler
> > generating .HEX files... SIMTEL has quite an extensive collection
> > of software for the 8031/8032/8051/8052 and derivatives...
> 
> Doug, does the SIMTEL20 repository still exist?  Where?
> 
> I don't mean simtel.com where all the DOS and Windows stuff is . . .

Urg. It might not, so I suppose I need to package up 
the 8051 et al stuff for any who want it...

I think I can get that done today.

-dq

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 11:58:21 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: Re: ZX81 and 6116 (Pete Turnbull)
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
	<000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	<10203230921.ZM16500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <15516.49725.808705.556310@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> Zilog made a "quasi-static RAM" 4K x 8, called Z8132, but it's
> 28-pin.

  I think that's the Z6132...interesting chip...

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sat Mar 23 12:36:51 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:

> I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
> whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
> because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...
> which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me, or 2) has
> obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of ever
> finding it there...

If you have an ANSI terminal (or a vtXXX) hooked up to it, all you need to
do is 'set term/ansi'.  If you're using a framebuffer monitor, I think
you're outa luck, both myself and a guy I know that worked for DEC either
can't figure it out or have deemed it impossible to do ANSI emulation on
those things (or anything useful).  My suggestion is to try and get it to
work with a text-terminal first.

Second, once you install DecWindows (http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/),
it should auto-magically start up OR you can start it using a DCL script
called 'DECW$STARTUP.COM' or something similar.  It should be available
under the 'SYS$MANAGER:' drive-alias.  The URL above is a GREAT reference
to (Open)VMS - I've been able to figure out just about any problem with
those docs and this list. (thanks guys!)

> I used the VMS construct of DOS's 'copy con filename.txt' {I don't remember
> what it is anymore -- it's been 6-9 months since I've even sparked up my
> VAX} to try to do a few things on it, but it's so hard editing anything
> that I took what little spare time I had towards other pursuits. :-/

that would be 'create filename.txt'.   Once you get yourself an ANSI
terminal and EDT or EVE running, it'll be much more exciting.  EDT and EVE
are *not* the easiest things to use without any prior knowledge (or
without a "Do" key on your DEC Keyboard :)  The best 'intro to VMS for
dummies' guide Ive found on the internet is availble from
http://www.ladysharrow.ndirect.co.uk/Vax/beginners_guide_to_vax.htm
Even with its title and the author's bad grammer, it's how I first learned
to use a VAX (using the /nocomm hint provided, but that was a long time
ago ;).  If you can tolerate it long enough to read through the useless
bullshit, it's really a decent introductory guide to VAXen.

> The system:
> VAXStation 3100/m38, 32Meg RAM, VMS Version 7.1 [the full monty - even has
> the BASIC package in the distro - 11 disks worth!], (2) 1Gig hard drives
> {RZ26s? I think - it's been a while}, 2Meg 8-plane grafix buffer [this is
> the biotsch that won't config right for the terminal settings, hence no
> text editors] 17" display, keyboard, mouse [of course] & I just got off
> eBay 5 AUI->RJ45 transceivers [$22US shipped! Whoohoo!] so I won't have to
> have thinnet strung all over my new ancient house - I can stick with Cat5.

Nice setup, makes my VAXstation 3200 look puny. :(  Just promise to never
stop running VMS on it.  With people like Gunther running Ultrix or NetBSD
on it (  sick bastards  ;) the world needs as many VMS
users as it can get to stay in sync.

-- Pat



From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 23 12:56:43 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A88B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1d29c$9e8c23c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

conjuring up a reasonably small and not too slow line-by-line assembler is not
so trivial a process as translating code from one cpu to another, since the
process is generally content-dependent.  If I translate the MikBug-resident
assembly code to 805x assembler, I'll have a cross-assembler, but still won't
have what I want.  The structure I've been after is more like the LILBUG,
written for the 6801, or the BUFFALO, from the 68HC11,  (one 'F' or two?)
monitor from MOT, not that either of these is necessarily better than MIKBUG,
but more that I simply know them and don't know the MIKBUG.   The parser would
probably be simpler, since the 805x instruction set involves mainly ADD, SUBB,
ANL, ORL, shifts/rotates, and MOV instructions for anything hardware
independent, with an additional character or the absence of one to define the
addressing mode.  Unlike the MOT processors, which have the destination
inherent in the opcode, the 805x types habeI figured a table-lookup would
provide a suitable approach, unless, and this is what I was hoping I'd
encounter, someone has makes an already built version available.

Naturally I can take a look at the code to see what can be gleaned from the
techniques applied to the corresponding tasks there.

One interesting debugger-related problem with the 805x and other architectures
that don't allow writes to code space is how one would create an environment
that permits setting breakpoints.  Most of the debug environments I've seen do
this by mapping the code and data space into a combined map, thereby allowing
the two to reside in the same space, and, consequently, allowing code space to
be written.  Of course, it also allows a runaway program to corrupt code space
...  ... it seems there's always a "gotcha."

I'm hoping to come up with an alternative to this, naturally, but I have to
start somewhere, and that will require a line-by-line assembler, so one can
use the mnemonics instead of having to learn the HEX codes for each
instruction.

Hopefully there's one already been done out there somewhere ...

Dick


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)


> > I found a number of hits there from GOOGLE, but found, also, that they
were
> > apparently out of date and inaccessible.
> >
> >  A traditional macro-assembler is a wonderful tool, but probably
> >  inappropriatefor inclusion in a debug monitor intended to reside
> >  in the processor'son-board ROM.
>
> If you don't mind translating a not too-terribly-long
> program for another processor, then I believe MIKBUG
> for the 6800 may do ok.  My first embedded
> systems project was a 6800, and I included MIKBUG in
> the ROM so that I could precisely what you want to do.
>
> The 8051 being a more generous chip register-wise,
> translating it shouldn't be difficult.
>
> You can find at least one version here:
>
> http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A/mikbug.txt
>
> Looks like a fun weekend project.
>
> Regards,
> -doug q
>
>


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 12:59:00 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: many-platform LAN connectivity...
In-Reply-To: <200203231743.g2NHhp604710@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
References: 
 <200203231743.g2NHhp604710@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: 

	I was wondering if anyone had ideas as to the best way of 
connecting many different platforms together on a LAN and allowing 
file sharing and such?  My first thought was using FTP but I thought 
I'd pose the question here in case someone else had a better idea.

	Here's what I'm proposing to connect together, and the OSes 
being run, most of which fits the 10 year rule of the list, all 
connected to a Netgear 8port dual-speed hub:

	- Blue/white G3 Mac (main machine, running IPNetRouter)
		- Mac OS 9.2.2/10.1.2 with access to built-in 100baseTX
		- VirtualPC with the following OSes, with access to 
secondary PCI 10/100baseTX NIC
			- WinNT 4
			- Win98
			- Red Hat Linux 7.1
			- Netware 3.12

	- (2) NeXT boxes with built-in 10baseT
		- NeXTstep 3.3 with native Netware client and CAPer 
Appletalk client

	- Mac Color Classic with Asente PDS 10baseT NIC
		- System 7.1

	- Mac Powerbook 5300c with Focus 10baseT NIC
		- System 8.1

	- IBM PS/2 P70 with Etherlink MCA 10baseT NIC
		- OS/2 Warp Connect with native Netware client

	- Amiga 3000 with Xsurf Zorro 10baseT NIC
		- OS 3.9 and Miami TCP stack

	- DEC MicroVAX II with DELQA 10baseT NIC (NIC not currently installed)
		- VMS 4.6

	- DEC Pro380 with ethernet option installed
		- POS

	All the Mac's and the Amiga have all been set up for dial-up 
access previously as well as 'net access using a LAN gateway.  The 
NeXT's and PS/2 have only been used on LAN's and the 'net using a 
gateway.  The DEC machines have not been set up for any type of 
connectivity.  The OSes running uder VPC all access the 'net using 
IPNetRouter as the gateway, the same as any of the other machines 
connected to the hub.  VPC generally only has one non-native OS 
running at a time though it is possible to have more than one 
running.  Currently only the two NIC's in the main G3 and one of the 
NeXT machines are constantly connected to the hub.

	BTW, I'm doing this just for the sake of doing it...no real 
need other than to see where I can go with it.

	Thanks
	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sat Mar 23 13:09:00 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 stuff
Message-ID: 

Well, as I've not found anyone willing to come and get a 3480 tape drive
unit from me, I've taken one apart and am planning on selling the 'useful'
bits from it.  I still have two drive units completely un-touched, so if
you're interested in them, drop me a line.  I'm not looking to get much
money, just enough to cover what I paid for it.

So far, I have available:

2x 3480 Tape drives.. the actual 'drive' taken out of the unit.
1x 3480 drive unit power supply
1x 3480 drive 'air pump' motor + filter + air tubing..
      a 1/3HP, 250VAC motor with an 'air pump' assembly on it, along with
      the IBM air filter assembly and whatever teflon (?) clear tubing
      that came out of the drive unit.
1x 3480 tape drive unit 'display' that has the main 'user-controls' for
      the drive on it.

1x 3480 A22 tape controller 'logic boards unit'.... the set of logic
      boards, backplane, and cable from the 3480's controller.  Bunches
      of custom IBM chips and weird-ass cables (don't know the real name,
      look like a 16pin(?) DIP socket stuck on one of those plastic with
      metal traces ribbon-cables.

2x 3480 B22 tape drive units, complete.

If I don't get any responses, I plan to (attempt) to get rid of the drives
on eBay, disassemble the power supplies for parts, try and sell the motors
to industrial suplus dealers, and save the displays for who-knows-what.

Try and contact me ASAP, if there's interest I can hold onto something for
a while if need-be.

-- Pat
West Lafayette, IN, USA


From dl6du at t-online.de  Sat Mar 23 13:21:30 2002
From: dl6du at t-online.de (A.Keijmel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: HP Sketchpro digitiser
Message-ID: <002e01c1d29f$f05638a0$88d6fea9@ak1>

Hi Do You have any information yet ??
I Have also such a digitizes and want to use it wit autocad 14  .. 
do you have any drivers ??
Aart
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020323/5bbb73ea/attachment.html
From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Sat Mar 23 13:30:40 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A88E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> I'm hoping to come up with an alternative to this, naturally, but I have to
> start somewhere, and that will require a line-by-line assembler, so one can
> use the mnemonics instead of having to learn the HEX codes for each
> instruction.
> 
> Hopefully there's one already been done out there somewhere ...

Brain rot kept me from remembering how I handled this... I
didn't... well, I have a hardware debugger called DryIce-51
or something like that. You pull your 8051, plug this in,
it has its own 8051, and IIRC it has an assembler built-in.

Handy for debugging interrupt routines, althought it's not
a true ICE, so you can't trace through machine states.

Then again, more brain rot... I had *some* kind of monitor,
because for the DS5000, I found it handier to use it than
to pull the chip and stick in the DryIce.

Found the SIMTEL 8051 stuff, at least what I downloaded.
Wasn't much. But I have a WIC-80 tape labeled to indicate
some more 8051 stuff is on it. The 486 with the Jumbo-250
seems to be dying...

-dq



From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Sat Mar 23 13:46:29 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Free highspeed PPT punch available..
Message-ID: <3C9CDB95.A79112DF@bluewin.ch>

the catch ?
It's local pickup only in Zurich , Switzerland.n

Its a 110 V rackmount Tally unit in good cosmetic condition, functionality
unknown.

Contact me offlist if interested.

					Jos Dreese

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 13:51:21 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 22, 2 10:43:36 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 540 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020323/2d345ed1/attachment.ksh
From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Mar 23 14:00:23 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: HP9133 HDAs (was Re: DSQD Drives)
Message-ID: <20020323.140210.-1011459.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>


Yeh-- The 'XV' used the ST-419.  Fifteen meg, *very* hard to get.
An RD-52 can be used in it's place, although you can only use
15mb of it.

I fergit what the 'V' used (was it an ST-506?).



Jeff

On 23 Mar 2002 09:43:51 -0800 Frank McConnell 
writes:
> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote (after Joe Rigdon):
> > >    225s and 251s are handy to keep around since they'll replace 
> a number of
> > > OLD hard drives. I've used 225s to replace the dries inside of 
> some of the
> > > HP HP-IB disk drives.
> > 
> > The hard disks in my HP9133s _are_ ST225s. And AFAIK they're 
> original 
> > from HP.
> 
> Sounds like a 9133D, which did have a half-height ST225 inside.
> The earlier 9133XVs used something full-height.  
> 
> -Frank McConnell
> 


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 14:10:37 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
In-Reply-To: <200203231626.g2NGQkK02540@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at Mar 23, 2 05:26:46 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1607 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020323/26e997d3/attachment.ksh
From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Sat Mar 23 14:14:51 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:


> If you have an ANSI terminal (or a vtXXX) hooked up to it, all you need to
> do is 'set term/ansi'.  If you're using a framebuffer monitor, I think
> you're outa luck, both myself and a guy I know that worked for DEC either
> can't figure it out or have deemed it impossible to do ANSI emulation on
> those things (or anything useful).  My suggestion is to try and get it to
> work with a text-terminal first.

They finally got around to ANSI emulation in blue screen mode on Alphas 
running Unix.  I don't think VMS even has it there.


> that would be 'create filename.txt'.   Once you get yourself an ANSI
> terminal and EDT or EVE running, it'll be much more exciting.  EDT and EVE
> are *not* the easiest things to use without any prior knowledge (or
> without a "Do" key on your DEC Keyboard :)  The best 'intro to VMS for

Control B works as do, with a downarrow to get rid of the prev. command

-- 


From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Sat Mar 23 14:20:08 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470664FE@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> Roger Merchberger wrote:
> 
	>The usual... I don't have any paper-based documentation whatsoever
-- all I

	http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/

	Admittedly not as convenient as paper-based,
	but pretty useful nonetheless.

	Start, I guess, with the User's Manual:


	http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6489/6489pro.html

	>I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't*
*run*
	>whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've
tried,
	>because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen
configured...
	>which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me,
or 2) has
	>obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of
ever
	>finding it there...

	What terminal do you have connected?
	If it's one of the VT series, try:
		$ SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE
	and don't type anything until the $ prompt
	comes back

	>I used the VMS construct of DOS's 'copy con filename.txt' {I don't
remember
	>what it is anymore -- it's been 6-9 months since I've even sparked
up my
	>VAX} to try to do a few things on it, but it's so hard editing
anything
	>that I took what little spare time I had towards other pursuits.
:-/

	$ EDIT filename.txt

	will fire up some variant of TPU with an EVE 
	personality but EDIT/EDT is still around (if you've
	ever used a standard editor on RT11 or RSX, this
	is pretty near identical. 

	emacs and vi[m] are available too.


	>The system:
	>VAXStation 3100/m38, 32Meg RAM, VMS Version 7.1 [the full monty -
even has
	>the BASIC package in the distro - 11 disks worth!], (2) 1Gig hard
drives
	>{RZ26s? I think - it's been a while}, 2Meg 8-plane grafix buffer
[this is
	>the biotsch that won't config right for the terminal settings,
hence no
	>text editors] 17" display, keyboard, mouse [of course] & I just got
off
	>eBay 5 AUI->RJ45 transceivers [$22US shipped! Whoohoo!] so I won't
have to
	>have thinnet strung all over my new ancient house - I can stick
with Cat5.

	Did it come with the OS installed or did you do it?
	You could just re-install to get DECwindows.
	Without DECwindows you cannot do full-screen editing
	on the monitor - it's just a dumb glass tty.

	Your options appear to be:
	  1) flip S3 and hook up a VT to the printer port
	      and use it as an alternate console
	  2) log in over the network (telnet or SET HOST)
	  3) Install DECwindows
	  4) Use EDT in line mode or use TECO

	(4) would be an education, but perhaps not ideal :-)
	(3) is the way to go.
	(2) you should do ... all VAXes have the right to be networked.

	Antonio


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 23 14:36:58 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: Re: ZX81 and 6116 (Tony Duell)
References: <000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	
Message-ID: <15516.59242.670713.893351@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 23, Tony Duell wrote:
> IIRC it's a true static RAM, 1K*8, 24 pin DIL, pinout similar to the 2716 
> or 6116. I think WE/ is on pin 21, and I can't remember what's on pin 19 
> (which would be A10 if it were a 2K device). Maybe nothing, maybe another 
> CS input.
> 
> It was not commonly used, but my Nascom2 has a few in it...

  What's a Nascom2?  That name sounds familiar.

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:26 2002
From: norm-classiccmp at docnorm.com (norm-classiccmp@docnorm.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Wright Punch up for auction
In-Reply-To: <01C1D203.8DBA0D80@mse-d03>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, M H Stein wrote:
> Gee, Brian, I offered one of these right here at the same time as that
> pile of IBM docs that I sent to Norm & you; ya shoulda spoken up.

Hi, Mike!  Brian actually already has one of these ... he was just being a 
nice guy in pointing out that another was available :-)

> How are you guys coming along with scanning those manuals? Anything on
> line yet?

Well, hrm.  I've scanned all the docs relating to the equipment Erik
wanted, then sent them off to him.  The files are on my XP machine as
8bit, 300dpi files waiting to be put into pdf format ... I got stalled as
I tried to decide between just putting them up as images, or running them
through an OCR program.  Then the process got stalled some more as I
worked more on ibm1130.org's new format ... which I believe is almost
ready to go, and I'll be posting about it as soon as it is.  Then I'll pdf
the files.  I think I'm just going to skip the OCR for now:  it introduces
a lot of extra complications that will really slow down the process.

RSN,

Norm



From jrice at texoma.net  Sat Mar 23 15:38:05 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: many-platform LAN connectivity...
References: 
	 <200203231743.g2NHhp604710@daemonweed.reanimators.org> 
Message-ID: <3C9CF5BD.A9F06877@texoma.net>

I currently have 5 NeXT cubes, 1 NeXT Color Turbo slab, 16 Windows
machines (2 Win2k, 1 XP Pro, 2 NT 4.0, 9 Win98SE, 1 Win95, 1 WFWG 3.11),
5 Mac's (Perf 631CD, Quadra 800, PM 6100, PM7100 running MkLinux, Mac
Classic), 2 Sparc 5's, 1 Sparc IPC, 1 Sgi Indy, 1 Tandy 1000SX, 1 BeBox,
4 Linux boxes and 1 Canon object.station hooked on my home network.  All
but the object.station (SCSI card problem) are up and running.  I
suppose it's sinking to the lowest common denominator, but I'm using
Windows compatible networking (SMB), running Dave on the Mac's and Samba
on everything else to tie them all together. The only machine that
doesn't use TCP/IP is the Classic.  It's set up on Ethertalk with a SCSI
to 10BT converter.  The Localtalk printers are accessed using Services
for Macintosh on the Win2k and NT servers linked through an Asante
EtherTalk bridge. I'm playing with some NFS clients for Windows, Mac and
Be so I could use NFS on  the Unix boxes and dump Samba, but Samba is
still working very well.  The only flaky problam I've had with Samba has
been on the dual 133 BeBox.  It's running BeOS R4.5 and Samba doesn't
seem real stable on 4.5.

The Tandy 1000 is running DOS 6.22 and the MS "Workgroup Companion for
MS-DOS" which is the networking components of WFWG 3.11 with out the
other garbage.  I'm using a 8-bit 3Com NIC, which is a thinnet coax
card.  The Performa 631CD is also a thinnet machine, so both of them are
linked to a Digi media converter that I picked up surplus for $1.00.

I have a couple of Epson Actionlaser 1500 printers that are on the
network using Hawking printer server dongles.  The are shared to the
machines that can't print directly to an IP by sharing them from the
Win2K server.

The home network is linked to the 'net through an ISDN router and to my
office through a second ISDN router.  To reach the branch offices in
North Dallas and Sherman, I just bounce through the downtown Dallas
office.

I wish I could find a way to link the C-128D running CP/M 3.0 to the
network.  I just sold my Amiga's this spring, bur I never got around to
getting a Zorro bus NIC for them.

James
You mean you're supposed to read the manual first?
http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp2.html

Jeff Hellige wrote:
> 
>         I was wondering if anyone had ideas as to the best way of
> connecting many different platforms together on a LAN and allowing
> file sharing and such?  My first thought was using FTP but I thought
> I'd pose the question here in case someone else had a better idea.
> 
>         Here's what I'm proposing to connect together, and the OSes
> being run, most of which fits the 10 year rule of the list, all
> connected to a Netgear 8port dual-speed hub:
> 
>         - Blue/white G3 Mac (main machine, running IPNetRouter)
>                 - Mac OS 9.2.2/10.1.2 with access to built-in 100baseTX
>                 - VirtualPC with the following OSes, with access to
> secondary PCI 10/100baseTX NIC
>                         - WinNT 4
>                         - Win98
>                         - Red Hat Linux 7.1
>                         - Netware 3.12
> 
>         - (2) NeXT boxes with built-in 10baseT
>                 - NeXTstep 3.3 with native Netware client and CAPer
> Appletalk client
> 
>         - Mac Color Classic with Asente PDS 10baseT NIC
>                 - System 7.1
> 
>         - Mac Powerbook 5300c with Focus 10baseT NIC
>                 - System 8.1
> 
>         - IBM PS/2 P70 with Etherlink MCA 10baseT NIC
>                 - OS/2 Warp Connect with native Netware client
> 
>         - Amiga 3000 with Xsurf Zorro 10baseT NIC
>                 - OS 3.9 and Miami TCP stack
> 
>         - DEC MicroVAX II with DELQA 10baseT NIC (NIC not currently installed)
>                 - VMS 4.6
> 
>         - DEC Pro380 with ethernet option installed
>                 - POS
> 
>         All the Mac's and the Amiga have all been set up for dial-up
> access previously as well as 'net access using a LAN gateway.  The
> NeXT's and PS/2 have only been used on LAN's and the 'net using a
> gateway.  The DEC machines have not been set up for any type of
> connectivity.  The OSes running uder VPC all access the 'net using
> IPNetRouter as the gateway, the same as any of the other machines
> connected to the hub.  VPC generally only has one non-native OS
> running at a time though it is possible to have more than one
> running.  Currently only the two NIC's in the main G3 and one of the
> NeXT machines are constantly connected to the hub.
> 
>         BTW, I'm doing this just for the sake of doing it...no real
> need other than to see where I can go with it.
> 
>         Thanks
>         Jeff
> --
>                            Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                          http://www.cchaven.com
>                      http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From fdebros at verizon.net  Sat Mar 23 17:11:28 2002
From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Infoserver 150 DEC
Message-ID: <000001c1d2c0$100fa8a0$6501a8c0@fred>

Does anybody here have a Users Manual I could purloin?
 
Fred
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020323/a238eca8/attachment.html
From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 23 17:38:47 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A88E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <005401c1d2c3$e105e480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I gave my '250 away about a decade ago.  The tapes tended to die much sooner
than this.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: SIMTEL (was Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?)


> > I'm hoping to come up with an alternative to this, naturally, but I have
to
> > start somewhere, and that will require a line-by-line assembler, so one
can
> > use the mnemonics instead of having to learn the HEX codes for each
> > instruction.
> >
> > Hopefully there's one already been done out there somewhere ...
>
> Brain rot kept me from remembering how I handled this... I
> didn't... well, I have a hardware debugger called DryIce-51
> or something like that. You pull your 8051, plug this in,
> it has its own 8051, and IIRC it has an assembler built-in.
>
> Handy for debugging interrupt routines, althought it's not
> a true ICE, so you can't trace through machine states.
>
> Then again, more brain rot... I had *some* kind of monitor,
> because for the DS5000, I found it handier to use it than
> to pull the chip and stick in the DryIce.
>
> Found the SIMTEL 8051 stuff, at least what I downloaded.
> Wasn't much. But I have a WIC-80 tape labeled to indicate
> some more 8051 stuff is on it. The 486 with the Jumbo-250
> seems to be dying...
>
> -dq
>
>
>


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 17:53:21 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Infoserver 150 DEC
Message-ID: 

I could use the link too. I just ran across one.

Paxton 

From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au  Sat Mar 23 17:55:59 2002
From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>
            <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <102f01c1d2c6$4a0ae4b0$0300a8c0@geoff>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:59 AM
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...


> Rumor has it that FLTLT\(AAFC\) Geoff Roberts may have mentioned these
words:
> >From: "Roger Merchberger" 
>
> >> The only classic machine I can't get to print is my MicroVAX 3100/m38 -
> >and
> >> that's only because I can't get it to talk TCP/IP... :-( 
> >
> >Er, why not?  What version of VMS?
>
> The usual... I don't have any paper-based documentation whatsoever -- all
I
> have is CD-ROM based, which needs DECWindows - but I can't get DECWindows
> running without documentation. :-(
>
IIRC, the VMS docs are viewable online at DEC^H^H^HCompaq's web site
somewhere.

> I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
> whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
> because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...

HELP SET TERMINAL should work, if you use a VT term into the console port.

> which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me, or 2)
has
> obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of ever
> finding it there...

Hmmm, I managed to get a Vax 6310 going when I didn't have any idea what VMS
was,
so I'm sure you can do this..

> I used the VMS construct of DOS's 'copy con filename.txt' {I don't
remember
> what it is anymore -- it's been 6-9 months since I've even sparked up my
> VAX} to try to do a few things on it, but it's so hard editing anything
> that I took what little spare time I had towards other pursuits. :-/

EVE or just plain EDIT should work, again from a terminal.    If the graphic
display working at all?

> The system:
> VAXStation 3100/m38, 32Meg RAM, VMS Version 7.1 [the full monty - even has
> the BASIC package in the distro - 11 disks worth!],

nice.

> (2) 1Gig hard drives
> {RZ26s? I think - it's been a while},

Sounds right.

> 2Meg 8-plane grafix buffer [this is
> the biotsch that won't config right for the terminal settings, hence no
> text editors] 17" display, keyboard, mouse [of course]

??  I didn't think the video device need to be configured.  VMS should take
care of that, and it should 'just work'.
Are you sure the monitor and graphic buffer are compatible?   Error message?
Anything on the display?
I'm a mouse short of having a decwindows system that works on my VS4000/90
with VMS 6.2 but it runs fine from a
console terminal.

> & I just got off
> eBay 5 AUI->RJ45 transceivers [$22US shipped! Whoohoo!] so I won't have to
> have thinnet strung all over my new ancient house - I can stick with Cat5.

That's good.
> The price I pay for having one sweet VAX - damn thing doesn't run for
crap.
> [1] ;-/

Pretty unusual for VMS to not run properly on a Vax of any description.

> Anyone got a "VAXStation fer Dummies" book written yet? ;-)
> Roger "Merch" Merchberger
>
> [1] Well, OK - to be technical, the thing runs *great* - I just can't *do*
> a frelling thing with it...

Shouldn't be THAT hard.....Did you install VMS, or was it there already?

Cheer

Geoff in Oz


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 18:03:12 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Burroughs Tape drive on ebay
Message-ID: <14d.afd12cf.29ce71c0@aol.com>

Heads up Minnesota or those in the area. Found this filed under photo stock. 
Not only was it miss categorized but the owner has no idea what it is. Four 
days to go.

It looks like a Portable R to R tape drive for an early Burroughs 
Computerized Accounting Machines. (Looking at the styling)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1341100641

A great collectable but it is heavy. If anyone contacts the owner I would be 
interested in what interface it has in it? I am not at all interested in the 
drive but I know it is fairly rare now.

Paxton
Astoria, OR

From bshannon at tiac.net  Sat Mar 23 18:19:30 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9D1B92.F74567E4@tiac.net>

Tony,

I used to fix lisp machines for a living.  They use custom monitors.

The problem described is a common problem of reflections on the video signal
transmission line, and this accounts for the doubling of the video.

Tony Duell wrote:

> >
> > On 22 Mar, Tony Duell wrote:
> >
> > > Is the monitor based on a standard chassis that we might be able to find
> > > documentation on?
> > Aha. I see. You never seen a Symbolics (monitor) from inside. These
>
> No. Now, if somebody wants to give me a Symbolics... :-)
>
> > console monitors are very special and very strange things. Mono screen,
> > some audio stuff in it, keyboard and mouse controller, ... and it is
> > connected to the machine with a single cable. They are completely
> > different from everything else on the world.
>
> That, actually, doesn't mean a darn thing...
> Consider the portrait monitor on my PERQ 2T1. It's got 3 physical cables
> back the host, which actually form 1 'logical cable' -- video (no syncs)
> : BNC, power : 3 pin DIN, everything else (syncs, keyboard/tablet power
> and signals, audio, etc) : DA15.
>
> The keybaord and mouse/tablet plug into the back of the monitor.
>
> But inside the monitor there's a custom connector bracket which links up
> all the connectors, the speaker, and so on. And a standard KME monitor
> PCB.
>
> The PERQ 3a monitor has a PCB in the base with all the interface
> circuitry on it (for things like the keyboard, speaker, etc) and an
> almost-identical KME PCB on top.
>
> The Moniterm landscape monitors used on PERQ 2T2s have much the same
> connector bracket as the T1 portrait monitor, a simple (very simple) PSU,
> and a standard Moniterm monitor PCB.
>
> So the fact that the monitor unit is custom doesn't mean the PCBs inside
> are. In fact most companies did use standard monitor PCB.
>
> Do you know the PCB in the Symbolics monitor is totally custom?
>
> -tony


From vance at ikickass.org  Sat Mar 23 18:20:58 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 parts
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


I have a soft copy of a service manual.  Give me a couple of days.

Peace...  Sridhar

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote:

> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:47:13 -0500 (EST)
> From: Pat Finnegan 
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: IBM 3480 parts
>
> Well, I can't find any buyers for my IBM 3480 units, so I'm starting to
> disassemble one of them so I can re-gain some free space and probably sell
> off the large chunks of steel.  I was wondering - does anyone (Sridhar?)
> have any technical docs for the 3480, like a service manual or something
> that would tell me the pinouts of things like the display?
>
> Thanks
>
> -- Pat
>
>


From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 18:38:35 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Infoserver 150 DEC
References: 
Message-ID: <003601c1d2cc$3bb89b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.

John A.




From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sat Mar 23 18:39:35 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d219$58c4ea80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

Assuming I wanted to get a ZX-81, what would I want?  And are there any
really good 'net resources for the ZX-81?

--John


From allain at panix.com  Sat Mar 23 18:51:23 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: elobby =
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>           <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com> <102f01c1d2c6$4a0ae4b0$0300a8c0@geoff>
Message-ID: <004001c1d2ce$05885040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Well, here it is, folks.

    EBay's user 'elobby' became 'campaign_data' 
    October of last year.

    As 'elobby' he made a sale which was never delivered
    to me, nor refunded.

    As 'campaign_data' he sold and sent an item, but with
    many delays and empty promises, etc.  As this ID he
    promised the 'elobby' refund too but never sent it.

    He is prone to making statements like "I'm putting your 
    refund in an envelope right now" and then Not Sending
    the envelope!

    So I'm giving him a short while and then filing negative
    on him.  FYI.

John A.


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 23 19:02:17 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
Message-ID: <00de01c1d2d1$409aa900$8aef9a8d@ajp166>

From: Geoff Roberts 
>??  I didn't think the video device need to be configured.  VMS should
take
>care of that, and it should 'just work'.


Yep, usually on install.

RE: printing.  The default printer will go to one of the serial ports,
nominally
one labeled with a printer.  You can do a {print/que=devname} also.

UCX or one of the IP stacks can be installed. However I vaguely remember
around V5.5 remote ques and printservers were incorperated into VMS
services.

Allison


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sat Mar 23 19:04:15 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: FS/Trade: StorageTek 2920 9track
Message-ID: 

I'm looking to get rid of my StorageTek 2920 9track tape drive, if anyone
is interested.  It *might* need a new head, but probably just needs a
better I/O card than what I had.

PERTEC interface, rack-mountable (actually needs to be racked for it to
sit up correctly), about 150lbs, 120VAC in.   It worked for a few tapes I
tried - the problem might actually be in the tapes I was attempting to use
with it.

Would prefer local pickup, but could ship (assuming I can find somewhere
that'll take something this heavy) if paid enough to do it.  I'm not
really looking for much money, just 'enuough' for a couple meals or so.
Best offer within 24hrs gets it (or a flip of the coin if I get multiple
offers).

-- Pat
West Lafaytte, IN.



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Sat Mar 23 19:50:11 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
References: 
Message-ID: <001801c1d2d6$3d537b00$e38f70d8@default>

If you get one I have several books, manuals, and mag's on it. So if you
questions about the machine are various parts made for it let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Chris Wren" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: ZX-81 Question


> Assuming I wanted to get a ZX-81, what would I want?  And are there
any
> really good 'net resources for the ZX-81?
>
> --John
>
>


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Sat Mar 23 19:57:03 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Infoserver 150 DEC
References:  <003601c1d2cc$3bb89b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C9D326F.2C18B00F@adelphia.net>

To override the password do the following:

unplug it from the network (so it will fail self test and drop you at
the console)
from the console do a  BOOT /R1 dka0: (where dka0 is your boot device)
It will come up , load the infoserver os and use DEFAULT settings (which
means password will be the default of ESS)
login and do a set password to change the password, SAVE , then shutdown
and restart.  Logon with your newly selected password.





John Allain wrote:

> I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.
>
> John A.

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Sat Mar 23 20:14:00 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: New Additions to the Museum
Message-ID: <003501c1d2d9$906419a0$e38f70d8@default>

1. Singer/Friden EC 1117 calculator that works got it for $3.
2. 20+ different mousepads.
3. NEC TurboGrafx 16 with CD ROM missing controller and ac adapter.
4. NEC TurboBooster
5. TRS-80 fifteen meg external harddrive. Model 26-4156
6. TRS-80 Model II KB
7. Entex electronics Hockey hand held console from 1979.
8. GI Joe MAINFRAME action figure - New from 1986.
9. Atari 7800 Pro system with 15 + cartridges.
10. Box full of Sega Saturn items.
11. A Nintendo Virtual Boy
12. Compaq Portable 386 "lunchbox style".
13. Book Computers The Machines We Think With by D.S. Halacy, Jr - 1969.
Have not read it yet but the pic's are nice.  I have already spotted a
few items that I will have to start looking for.


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sat Mar 23 21:16:01 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
Message-ID: 

I was contacted via email by someone from PC Dynamics this morning.
They're looking for a copy of an article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in
the Mid-80's in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.  It deals with
cryptodisk software for VMS.

This is needed as part of their work on invalidating Patent 6,185,681
Here is the link about it from /.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24557.html
"A previously unknown Californian firm which has obtained a patent for
application-independent file encryption is seeking to enforce licensing from
other companies in the security industry. "


		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 23 21:59:50 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020324040119.RMJA1250.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at
all,

Excuse the typo, this should read "4116."

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 23 22:30:34 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 software serial port (was Re: ZX81 I/O ports)
Message-ID: <20020324043159.VGOT26876.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Stan Barr 

> Hmm...I did my ZX81 serial port in software!  It was only used to 
> transfer data to the host computer, so it was pretty simple...

Stan, I would really appreciate it if you would share this solution with
me, assuming you still have the code.

Thanks,

Glen
0/0


From dittman at dittman.net  Sat Mar 23 22:40:23 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Infoserver 150 DEC
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d2c0$100fa8a0$6501a8c0@fred> from "Fred deBros" at Mar 23, 2002 06:11:28 PM
Message-ID: <200203240440.g2O4eNm25425@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> Does anybody here have a Users Manual I could purloin?

I have a PDF.  I'll dig it up and email the list when I
have it available.

BTW, the default password is ESS.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 23 22:44:35 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <20020324040119.RMJA1250.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <001101c1d2ee$9a6a6d40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

That's certainly a horse of a different color.  So the objective was to
replace a set of 4116's with a single 6116?  That would reduce the available
RAM from 16KB to 2KB.  Is that what you wanted?  It would be dirt-simple
simply to put a 62512 on a business-card-sized daughterboard with the Z-80
and, say, a PAL or a little MSI/SSI logic, in order to fill the memory map
with SRAM and disable it wherever a memory-mapped peripheral or other memory
lived.  Moreover, it would be quite reasonable to copy the content of any
EPROM/ROM device into the SRAM and be done with it, i.e disable the ROM.

Does that seem at all interesting?

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> > I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at
> all,
>
> Excuse the typo, this should read "4116."
>
> Glen
> 0/0
>
>


From dittman at dittman.net  Sat Mar 23 22:49:54 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 23, 2002 07:16:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203240449.g2O4nsF25477@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> I was contacted via email by someone from PC Dynamics this morning.
> They're looking for a copy of an article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in
> the Mid-80's in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.  It deals with
> cryptodisk software for VMS.

Have they tried contacting Glenn directly?  His email address
should be easy to get through google.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From mdg at idirect.com  Sat Mar 23 23:04:49 2002
From: mdg at idirect.com (mdg)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: Tek 2230 @ 2232
Message-ID: <3C9D5E71.7C5A@idirect.com>

Hi;

Question to you Tek gurus;  is the 2230 a true digital scope meaning
that what you see is a digitized signal or is it an analog scope that
has a digital storage function that you turn ON whenever you need to
capture something ?.  
Is the 2232 the same in that respect ? . 
I remember using one of them years ago at work - I could see a nice
trace of 67 MHz (analog) but I could also use a digital storage function
to capture a 20 kHz event.  Now I need one for myself;  as for the
digital scopes I've found that the ones I'd accept are those with 2
Gs/sec to be able to see a series of not very repeatable periods at 80 
MHz but they are a bit too expensive... .So I need a 100 MHz analog with
digital storage capability at lower freq. 
Please respond to my E-mail adress:   mdg@idirect.com

Thanks,
Art

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sat Mar 23 23:13:26 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:41 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
In-Reply-To: <200203240449.g2O4nsF25477@narnia.int.dittman.net>
References:  from "Zane H. Healy" at
 Mar 23, 2002 07:16:01 PM
Message-ID: 

>> I was contacted via email by someone from PC Dynamics this morning.
>> They're looking for a copy of an article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in
>> the Mid-80's in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.  It deals with
>> cryptodisk software for VMS.
>
>Have they tried contacting Glenn directly?  His email address
>should be easy to get through google.

Glenn is who told them about the magazine article.

	Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From dittman at dittman.net  Sat Mar 23 23:20:55 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... (was: Toilett processing...
In-Reply-To: <102f01c1d2c6$4a0ae4b0$0300a8c0@geoff> from "Geoff Roberts" at Mar 24, 2002 10:25:59 AM
Message-ID: <200203240520.g2O5Ktr25555@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> IIRC, the VMS docs are viewable online at DEC^H^H^HCompaq's web site
> somewhere.

There's a link on www.openvms.compaq.com.

> > I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
> > whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
> > because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...
> 
> HELP SET TERMINAL should work, if you use a VT term into the console port.

HELP doesn't require a VTxxx terminal.

> EVE or just plain EDIT should work, again from a terminal.    If the graphic
> display working at all?

Use EDIT/EDT in line mode.

> > [1] Well, OK - to be technical, the thing runs *great* - I just can't *do*
> > a frelling thing with it...

Someone is a "Farscape" fan.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 23 23:34:20 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
Message-ID: <20020324053549.IJTH2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: John Chris Wren 

> Assuming I wanted to get a ZX-81, what would I want?

Take a stable ZX81 or TS1000 and pull off the composite video to feed a
monitor.  Add a decent keyboard and bump the RAM to 64KB.  You'll want a
printer and a good cassette recorder, too.

If you don't plan to add any hardware which requires a ROM, then you might
want to add NVRAM to the unoccupied 8-16K address space.  A Hunter board is
perfect for this, if you can find one.

If you require hardware which could benefit from having code in ROM, then
the 8-16K space can be used by an add-on ROM.

> And are there any
> really good 'net resources for the ZX-81?

Yes!  The ZX-TEAM home page is a good place to start:
http://home.t-online.de/home/p.liebert/zx-team.htm

Kai Fischer's ZX96 page shows an example of how far you can take this
machine:
http://home.freiepresse.de/befis/zx96_e.htm

Zebra Systems in NYC still sells unbuilt kits, but they are expensive:
http://www.zebrasystems.com/zebrasystems/zx81/index.html

For software, visit the University of Trondheim archive:
ftp://ftp.nvg.unit.no/pub/sinclair/zx81/

You can download the software and transfer it from a DOS-based PC to the
ZX81 using ZXTAPE and a modified PC-type parallel printer cable.

One program which is indispensable if FASTLOAD, which allows 4800 baud
cassette I/O, as opposed to the native 300 baud.  This means you can LOAD a
16 KB program from cassette in < 40 seconds instead of 5 minutes.

The possibilities really are endless.  My main ZX81 has an 80 MB hard drive
hung off it, which I will never come close to outgrowing.  Let me know if
you have more questions . . .

Glen
0/0


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 23:54:21 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: PDP & saga
Message-ID: <6e.19e45df0.29cec40d@aol.com>

I am posting this on the list because of the broad interest and the fact that 
I haven' t compiled a list of all interested. I will do that soon.

I did not get to look at it. My meeting schedule got changed around and was 
not able to make connections. I did talk with people on the phone so they 
know there is interest. I spoke with the operator and he said that it is just 
"idle" at the moment.

I have scheduled another appointment for April 1st or 2nd when I will be next 
down there. It sounds like nothing is happening immediately.

Expect pictures like the ones I have posted of my recent Road trip.

Paxton
Astoria, OR

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 23:54:38 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: many-platform LAN connectivity...
In-Reply-To: <3C9CF5BD.A9F06877@texoma.net>
References: 	
 <200203231743.g2NHhp604710@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
  <3C9CF5BD.A9F06877@texoma.net>
Message-ID: 

>I currently have 5 NeXT cubes, 1 NeXT Color Turbo slab, 16 Windows
>machines (2 Win2k, 1 XP Pro, 2 NT 4.0, 9 Win98SE, 1 Win95, 1 WFWG 3.11),
>5 Mac's (Perf 631CD, Quadra 800, PM 6100, PM7100 running MkLinux, Mac
>Classic), 2 Sparc 5's, 1 Sparc IPC, 1 Sgi Indy, 1 Tandy 1000SX, 1 BeBox,
>4 Linux boxes and 1 Canon object.station hooked on my home network.  All
>but the object.station (SCSI card problem) are up and running.  I
>suppose it's sinking to the lowest common denominator, but I'm using
>Windows compatible networking (SMB), running Dave on the Mac's and Samba
>on everything else to tie them all together. The only machine that
>doesn't use TCP/IP is the Classic.  It's set up on Ethertalk with a SCSI
>to 10BT converter.  The Localtalk printers are accessed using Services
>for Macintosh on the Win2k and NT servers linked through an Asante
>EtherTalk bridge. I'm playing with some NFS clients for Windows, Mac and
>Be so I could use NFS on  the Unix boxes and dump Samba, but Samba is
>still working very well.  The only flaky problam I've had with Samba has
>been on the dual 133 BeBox.  It's running BeOS R4.5 and Samba doesn't
>seem real stable on 4.5.

	I considered NFS and Samba but will likely go with Appletalk 
for those machines that support it and FTP to/from the Linux 'box' 
for those machines that don't.  Since I don't have any physical 
Windows machines, I'm not really interested in doing anything 
Windows-specific, though that could come later.  Since 5 of the 
machines already have Appletalk available, that seems like a good 
starting point and Windows can be made to speak Appletalk by 
installing PC MacLAN.   It would appear that VMS can also do 
Appletalk with the correct software.  If I went the NFS route, I 
could get something like MacNFS for the two PowerMac's.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From tom at carrott.org  Sun Mar 24 00:01:47 2002
From: tom at carrott.org (Tom Parker)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: HELP! RA81 power sequencing jumper, where the heck is that?
In-Reply-To: <3C9B4515.9090405@aurora.regenstrief.org>
Message-ID: <1396.848T2350T11414433tom@carrott.org>

Gunther Schadow  wrote:

>Johnny Billquist wrote:

>Ahhrgh! Well, thanks for letting me know. I knew about the power
>sequencing chain and the cables and stuff, but where the heck should
>one get those jumpers from? I was hoping there was some jumper of
>dip-switch on the inside that would let me override this. May be
>I should cut one of the cable that I do have and just cut the two
>wires short?

My RA81 stopped working a while ago... Reading this I wondered if I had
the sequencing jumper in wrong (until now I didn't know what they did). It
turns out that mine wasn't plugged all the way in. Now I can try and get it
recognised by NetBSD :-)

Anyway, the "start jumper" just shorts two of the 4 pins together, so I
imagine you could do something with a bit of wire in the socket.

  -    one notch on it's own
  .
 . .
| . |  two notches close together
\   /

The dots represent the pins, the lines represent notches cut into the inside
diamater of the plug body, corresponding to ridges on the plastic inner
part of the socket on the drive.

On my drive the socket has the single notch on it's own at the top and the
plug joins the pin at 9pm to the one at 6pm as viewed looking into the socket
from behind the drive.

--
Tom Parker - tom@carrott.org
           - http://www.carrott.org


From fernande at internet1.net  Sun Mar 24 00:06:50 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: elobby =
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321164206.01557598@mail.30below.com>           <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com> <102f01c1d2c6$4a0ae4b0$0300a8c0@geoff> <004001c1d2ce$05885040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C9D6CFA.82226C98@internet1.net>

John,


What is his email address?  Unless I have a transaction with
"campaign_data", I can't see his email address. 

Chad

John Allain wrote:
> 
> Well, here it is, folks.
> 
>     EBay's user 'elobby' became 'campaign_data'
>     October of last year.
> 
>     As 'elobby' he made a sale which was never delivered
>     to me, nor refunded.
> 
>     As 'campaign_data' he sold and sent an item, but with
>     many delays and empty promises, etc.  As this ID he
>     promised the 'elobby' refund too but never sent it.
> 
>     He is prone to making statements like "I'm putting your
>     refund in an envelope right now" and then Not Sending
>     the envelope!
> 
>     So I'm giving him a short while and then filing negative
>     on him.  FYI.
> 
> John A.

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From Innfogra at aol.com  Sun Mar 24 00:19:02 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Recent Road Trip pics of stuff avalable PDX
Message-ID: <8e.2512b655.29cec9d6@aol.com>

I was back in Portland for a few hours and visited a friend who is a 
secondary market dealer. He wanted to know what to do with a Sun 3/280 that I 
had mentioned to the list earlier and an Alpha 2100 Server he had gotten in.

He also had found a couple of rare HP calculators that I had him searching 
for.

Included are the Sun and Alpha, an Alpha 503e Personal Workstation, a 
HP9100B, a HP46 Desktop, The DEC InfoServer 150 I mentioned earlier and a 
sneak look at one of the "saved" piles

The Alpha Server 2100 I am sure is working but the drives have been pulled, 
no sleds either. Came from the Government.

I think the Alpha 503e PW is complete but I only took a picture of it as an 
after thought.

The DEC InfoServer 150 looks complete and operational. I have the equipment 
to test there but not the time.

I posted the pictures here:

http://hometown.aol.com/innfogra/

The Alpha 503e he is planning on selling on eBay. He also wants top dollar 
for the HP Calculators. However I have got him to take offers from the list 
first.

He has the ability to ship heavy items. He also does a good job shipping 
airport to airport on some heavy systems.

I prefer to be contacted at whoagiii@aol.com. Things are getting busy and 
there are times I can't read the list for quite a while.

Paxton
Astoria, Oregon
USA

From Innfogra at aol.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:22 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: PDP 7 saga
Message-ID: <35.24090db4.29cecb52@aol.com>

Pardon my bad taste in replying to my own message, and the spelling error on 
the previous subject line.

I am posting this on the list because of the broad interest and the fact that 

I haven't compiled a list of all interested. I will do that soon.

I did not get to look at it. My meeting schedule got changed around and was 
not able to make connections. I did talk with people on the phone so they 
know there is interest. I spoke with the operator and he said that it is just 

"idle" at the moment.

I have scheduled another appointment for April 1st or 2nd when I will be next 

down there. It sounds like nothing is happening immediately.

Expect pictures like the ones I have posted of my recent Road trip.

Paxton
Astoria, OR


From dittman at dittman.net  Sun Mar 24 00:55:34 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Mar 23, 2002 09:13:26 PM
Message-ID: <200203240655.g2O6tYH25761@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> >> I was contacted via email by someone from PC Dynamics this morning.
> >> They're looking for a copy of an article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in
> >> the Mid-80's in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.  It deals with
> >> cryptodisk software for VMS.
> >
> >Have they tried contacting Glenn directly?  His email address
> >should be easy to get through google.
> 
> Glenn is who told them about the magazine article.

Oh.  I'm surprised he didn't keep a copy.  Have you posted
on comp.os.vms and/or comp.sys.dec?
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Sun Mar 24 02:58:05 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Free highspeed PPT punch available..
Message-ID: <3C9D951D.5FF72C7D@bluewin.ch>

the catch ?
It's local pickup only in Zurich , Switzerland.n

Its a 110 V rackmount Tally unit in good cosmetic condition, functionality
unknown.

Contact me offlist if interested.

					Jos Dreese

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Sun Mar 24 03:43:44 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: ZX81 software serial port (was Re: ZX81 I/O ports) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:30:34 EST."
             <20020324043159.VGOT26876.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203240943.JAA24786@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

"Glen Goodwin"  said:
> > From: Stan Barr 
> 
> > Hmm...I did my ZX81 serial port in software!  It was only used to 
> > transfer data to the host computer, so it was pretty simple...
> 
> Stan, I would really appreciate it if you would share this solution with
> me, assuming you still have the code.
> 

Sorry, I can't find *any* of my ZX-81 software ;-(   There's a folder
somewhere with all my notes and listings in, but where?? (I've got
way too much junk!)

It drove an 8255 port using a mixture of Forth and assembler code I 
filched from a book.  Only ran at about 110 bps, but it was enough 
for what I was doing.

These days, I'd probably just hitch up a standard UART...

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From rhb57 at vol.com  Sun Mar 24 06:22:14 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: elobby =
In-Reply-To: <004001c1d2ce$05885040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: 

I don't blame you. The one and only ditz that posted a neg on me -"polbit"
stated that I sold him junk - that was when he had 3 negatives. Now he's got
10 negatives with around a 247 for total feedback, all on his sales it
seems. He's probably not long for this world of ebay.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain
=> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:51 PM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: elobby =
=>
=>
=> Well, here it is, folks.
=>
=>     EBay's user 'elobby' became 'campaign_data'
=>     October of last year.
=>
=>     As 'elobby' he made a sale which was never delivered
=>     to me, nor refunded.
=>
=>     As 'campaign_data' he sold and sent an item, but with
=>     many delays and empty promises, etc.  As this ID he
=>     promised the 'elobby' refund too but never sent it.
=>
=>     He is prone to making statements like "I'm putting your
=>     refund in an envelope right now" and then Not Sending
=>     the envelope!
=>
=>     So I'm giving him a short while and then filing negative
=>     on him.  FYI.
=>
=> John A.
=>


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sun Mar 24 06:41:18 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <200203241241.g2OCfJ309417@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 23 Mar, Tony Duell wrote:

> No. Now, if somebody wants to give me a Symbolics... :-)
There where two big 3600 free for pickup here in Germany... :-)

> Do you know the PCB in the Symbolics monitor is totally custom?
To be honest - no. But it wouldn't surprise me. And it wouldn't
surprise me if it is some OEM stuff. But getting docs for it is hard in
ether case. 
-- 



tschuess,
          Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz


From rschaefe at gcfn.org  Sun Mar 24 06:54:30 2002
From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Recent Road Trip pics of stuff avalable PDX
References: <8e.2512b655.29cec9d6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d333$0b6bede0$8c469280@y5f3q8>


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 01:19 AM
Subject: Recent Road Trip pics of stuff avalable PDX


> I was back in Portland for a few hours and visited a friend who is a
> secondary market dealer. He wanted to know what to do with a Sun 3/280
that I
> had mentioned to the list earlier and an Alpha 2100 Server he had gotten
in.

I believe that may be a SUN-3/180, as the 280 is a rackmount box.  Take a
look at
http://www.obsolyte.com/sunPICS/3_280/ to see one.  In fact, that may even
have been upgraded to a SUN-4, as that memory board looks awfully big, and
quite different from the 8M boards I have, although there are larger non-sun
boards avaliable, IIRC.  Is there a picture of the CPU card?  That would be
the determining factor.  :)

> Paxton

Bob


From vaxman at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 24 08:46:43 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Infoserver software (was Re: Infoserver 150 DEC)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D326F.2C18B00F@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: 


Does anyone have the software distribution for an Infoserver 100?

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:

> To override the password do the following:
> 
> unplug it from the network (so it will fail self test and drop you at
> the console)
> from the console do a  BOOT /R1 dka0: (where dka0 is your boot device)
> It will come up , load the infoserver os and use DEFAULT settings (which
> means password will be the default of ESS)
> login and do a set password to change the password, SAVE , then shutdown
> and restart.  Logon with your newly selected password.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Allain wrote:
> 
> > I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.
> >
> > John A.
> 
> --
> David Barnes
> davebarnes@adelphia.net
> 
> OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> and collector of DEC equipment
> 
> 
> 


From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 24 08:54:39 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: ZX81 software serial port (was Re: ZX81 I/O ports) 
References: <200203240943.JAA24786@citadel.metropolis.local>
Message-ID: <001501c1d343$d2e24bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

You should have no trouble finding one or more of the thousands of examples of
bit-banging a serial interface that have been published over the years.  A
GOOGLE search for "software UART" produces lots of hits.

It's not rocket science.  Keep in mind that with asynchronous communications,
you need to remain within one bit-time over the course of, at most, 11 bits,
of which the first and last are start and stop bits, respectively.  If you
stick with 7-bit ascii, you have more margin.  Each time you start, you start
anew, so there's no cumulative timing error over more than one character.  If
you don't mind the code size, you can time this VERY well regardless of the
main oscillator frequency, since you can make minor adjustments between bits.
It's normal, BTW, to sample at the middle of a bit window.  (someone had to
point that out to me once ... but only once ... )

The Z80 computes parity in the PSW, though there's some sort of gotcha with
that, if my feeble memory serves.

good lluck.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Barr" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: ZX81 software serial port (was Re: ZX81 I/O ports)


> Hi,
>
> "Glen Goodwin"  said:
> > > From: Stan Barr 
> >
> > > Hmm...I did my ZX81 serial port in software!  It was only used to
> > > transfer data to the host computer, so it was pretty simple...
> >
> > Stan, I would really appreciate it if you would share this solution with
> > me, assuming you still have the code.
> >
>
> Sorry, I can't find *any* of my ZX-81 software ;-(   There's a folder
> somewhere with all my notes and listings in, but where?? (I've got
> way too much junk!)
>
> It drove an 8255 port using a mixture of Forth and assembler code I
> filched from a book.  Only ran at about 110 bps, but it was enough
> for what I was doing.
>
> These days, I'd probably just hitch up a standard UART...
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com
>
> The future was never like this!
>
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 24 09:00:26 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: software UART
References: <200203240943.JAA24786@citadel.metropolis.local>
Message-ID: <001901c1d344$a1daea40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

If you don't mind listings provided as GIF files, here's one URL
http://www.avocetsystems.com/company/articles/magazine/auart.htm

Dick



From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Sun Mar 24 09:36:51 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Infoserver software (was Re: Infoserver 150 DEC)
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9DF293.CF599512@adelphia.net>

Yes.. I have version 3.1 and version 3.2 cdrom's.



"Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:

> Does anyone have the software distribution for an Infoserver 100?
>
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:
>
> > To override the password do the following:
> >
> > unplug it from the network (so it will fail self test and drop you at
> > the console)
> > from the console do a  BOOT /R1 dka0: (where dka0 is your boot device)
> > It will come up , load the infoserver os and use DEFAULT settings (which
> > means password will be the default of ESS)
> > login and do a set password to change the password, SAVE , then shutdown
> > and restart.  Logon with your newly selected password.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > John Allain wrote:
> >
> > > I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.
> > >
> > > John A.
> >
> > --
> > David Barnes
> > davebarnes@adelphia.net
> >
> > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> > and collector of DEC equipment
> >
> >
> >

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 24 09:38:50 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: paging Ethan Dicks
References: 
Message-ID: <001b01c1d349$ff4a0940$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I can't send you a message to tell you your mailbox is "over quota" and that's
causing the rather small (68K) zip file I've been trying to send you to
bounce.

I've run out of alternatives.

Dick



From mythtech at mac.com  Sun Mar 24 09:41:01 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Apple's A/UX
Message-ID: 

Does anyone know where there are some archives of Apple's A/UX OS and 
some of its software (like AppleShare Server Pro, and Retrospect 2.0Ci).

I just acquired an Apple Workgroup Server 95 (which is actually 9 years 
old, so its ALMOST on topic), and since it originally was designed to use 
A/UX, I figured it would be a good system to play with it on.

I'm just not sure where to get a copy, so I figured I would start by 
asking here, since I know A/UX has been brought up before (heck, maybe I 
will get lucky, and one of you has the original software that came with 
the WGS 95, and would be willing to send me a copy).

TIA

-chris




From tony.eros at machm.org  Sun Mar 24 09:59:04 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Basic GIGI usage
In-Reply-To: <001301c1d1cd$e1ce9e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020322060851.0296ab20@mail.njd.concentric.com>
 <5.0.2.1.0.20020322112624.029ae730@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020324105808.02aa3c20@mail.njd.concentric.com>

It does have BASIC after all.  I fiddled with the setup settings and got it 
to work.  I'll have to do some playing with ReGIS as well.

-- Tony

At 01:17 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > For some reason I thought all the GIGI terminals had BASIC in ROM
> > I was probably mistaken.
>
>They are certainly of value, hang on to it.
>The last time I used one was 1985, all I know
>for sure is that it had some form of _ReGIS_
>(Remote Graphics Instruction Set) in it, which
>can be as demanding (and more) CPU-wise
>as BASIC.
>
>John A.


From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Sun Mar 24 10:14:25 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Apple's A/UX
In-Reply-To:  from Chris at "Mar 24, 2 10:41:01 am"
Message-ID: <200203241614.IAA16716@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> Does anyone know where there are some archives of Apple's A/UX OS and 
> some of its software (like AppleShare Server Pro, and Retrospect 2.0Ci).

It *used* to be on a site in Germany which now seems to be down for the
count. Someone on comp.unix.aux is building a new archive which may shortly
be available; watch that newsgroup.

I'd put it up on my server but I think PLNU would kill me over the bandwidth
:-)

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The Commodore 64: the last true plug-and-play computer. --------------------

From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sun Mar 24 11:04:02 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> <20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> <3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> <10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <01e101c1d356$283fc2c0$0101a8c0@jay>


Someone wrote...
> > > > Since I was a sort of distributor for S&H at one point and I already
have
> > > > my own license, I would be able to support hobby users.  SO!!!!  Are
> > > > there any potential TSX-PLUS hobby users out there who would like
> > > > to have this software?

I am also very interested in TSX+. Right after I finish with the
HP2000/Access TSB system, the next system I am building is RT-11 w/TSX+. I
actually have a legal full distribution of TSX+ on RX02 and RX50 diskettes,
as well as a complete manual set. I did boot it up and play with it for a
few weeks on an 11/23 before starting my HP2000 project. I am looking
forward to getting back to RT-11/TSX+ so count me in!!

Jay West



From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sun Mar 24 11:35:53 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
Message-ID: 

I need some help with this one from the 'experts'.   I know that this is
the adaptor (one of two) from an IBM 3480 A22 controller that connected
the device to its host system.   I *think* that it's an ESCON adaptor, but
want some verification on that.  Also, does anyone have any interest in
these?  If not, one might make it into my 'museum', but the fate of the
other is uncertain.   If you have a desire for either or both of these,
contact me off list.

(Yeah, the 'connector' at the top of the pic is aparently the bus
terminator.  And no, I don't need the screw-driver handle identified, I
know what that is ;^)

http://cart-server.purdueriots.com/escon_adaptor_and_terminator.jpg

Thanks!

-- Pat


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Sun Mar 24 12:24:03 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Apple's A/UX
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9E19C3.1A783566@adelphia.net>

I don't know where its archived if at all, but I have original cdroms, and
installation floppies for AU/X for the WGS 95.  I still run a WGS 95 on my
home network, as an appletalk server...



Chris wrote:

> Does anyone know where there are some archives of Apple's A/UX OS and
> some of its software (like AppleShare Server Pro, and Retrospect 2.0Ci).
>
> I just acquired an Apple Workgroup Server 95 (which is actually 9 years
> old, so its ALMOST on topic), and since it originally was designed to use
> A/UX, I figured it would be a good system to play with it on.
>
> I'm just not sure where to get a copy, so I figured I would start by
> asking here, since I know A/UX has been brought up before (heck, maybe I
> will get lucky, and one of you has the original software that came with
> the WGS 95, and would be willing to send me a copy).
>
> TIA
>
> -chris
>
> 

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From jwest at classiccmp.org  Sun Mar 24 12:35:37 2002
From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: list changes & RFC on archives & rack chassis
References: 
Message-ID: <003901c1d362$b190d800$0101a8c0@jay>

> P.S. -- I have a 4U Aspen Alpine you can have.  275mHz 21064 Alpha.
> Big, noisy bastard.

I do truely truely appreciate the offer - but I really need to stick with 1U
preferably, 2U at worst. Thanks though!

Jay West


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 24 12:48:09 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020324040119.RMJA1250.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 23, 2 10:59:50 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 701 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020324/7415335e/attachment.ksh
From allain at panix.com  Sun Mar 24 12:48:20 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
References: 
Message-ID: <007d01c1d364$78628f40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

> article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in the Mid-80's
> in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.

Come up with an article date there's a 1:3 chance I can get it for you.

John A.




From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sun Mar 24 13:09:02 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
References:  <007d01c1d364$78628f40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3C9E244E.6020601@dragonsweb.org>

John Allain wrote:
>>article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in the Mid-80's
>>in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.
> 
> 
> Come up with an article date there's a 1:3 chance I can get it for you.
> 
> John A.
> 
> 
> 
> 

That appears to be better odds than the chance of the Patent Office 
hiring competent examiners these days.

I guess I'm just going to have to start scanning in or at least indexing 
all my old Byte, DDJ, CLM, Creative Computing, SciAm, etc. issues. There 
are freaking advertisements in them with enough prior art in them to 
demolish this claim, I'll bet.

jbdigriz




From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sun Mar 24 13:27:16 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Recent Road Trip pics of stuff avalable PDX
In-Reply-To: Re: Recent Road Trip pics of stuff avalable PDX (Robert Schaefer)
References: <8e.2512b655.29cec9d6@aol.com>
	<005301c1d333$0b6bede0$8c469280@y5f3q8>
Message-ID: <15518.10388.835331.951994@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 24, Robert Schaefer wrote:
> I believe that may be a SUN-3/180, as the 280 is a rackmount box.  Take a
> look at
> http://www.obsolyte.com/sunPICS/3_280/ to see one.  In fact, that may even

  For the most part, Sun was relatively consistent about their
numbering schemes.  Here's how they work:

  For model names of the form "Sun-X/YZ0":

  X = architecture...2, 3 or 4, 2=68010, 3=68020 or 68030; 4=SPARC
  Y = processor...1, 2, or 4 for Sun-3; 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 for SPARC
  Z = VME chassis type...1 or 4 for 3-slot; 5 for 6-slot, 6 for 12-slot
                         deskside, 7 for newer purple 12-slot
                         deskside, 8 for 12-slot rackmount,
                         9 for newer 16-slot rackmount

  There are some departures from this numbering scheme (3/110 for
example) but it is mostly consistent.  Not all combinations were sold
by Sun, but most could be built.  With the exception of the Sun-2 VME
P2 bussing, the VME buses are compatible between all processor and
chassis types.

           -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "Watch those lateral G's man,
St. Petersburg, FL               I've got sandwiches in my lap!" -Sridhar


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 13:58:02 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: paging Ethan Dicks
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d349$ff4a0940$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195802.4098.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Richard Erlacher  wrote:
> I can't send you a message to tell you your mailbox is "over quota" and
> that's
> causing the rather small (68K) zip file I've been trying to send you to
> bounce.

I have multiple Yahoo accounts because I receive hundreds of messages
per day.  You sent to the one that gets filled on a regular basis.  When I
originally asked for the files (from _this_ account), I had not expected
you to send to my other account.  No doubt, you "replied" to the message
and the reply-to is set there.

I have megs of room at erd_6502@yahoo.com.  Please send all attachments
there, not any other account.

Thank you,

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Sun Mar 24 14:11:36 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: NetPower PeeCee with MIPs R4400 CPU ????
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020324151136.007fd360@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   Is anyone familar with these? I have the MB and cards for one. I also have  Windows NT 3.5 and has Visual C++ for it.

   Joe


From swtpc6800 at attbi.com  Sun Mar 24 14:20:21 2002
From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: software UART
References: <200203240943.JAA24786@citadel.metropolis.local> <001901c1d344$a1daea40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <001901c1d371$52b31dc0$9865fea9@downstairs>

The SWTPC 6800 computer system used a bit banger serial port based on the
Motorola MIKBUG ROM monitor. It was limited to 110 or 300 baud. The I/O card
(SWTPC MP-C) use a 6820 parallel interface. It was great when SWTPC released
a new ROM that allowed for a real serial chip (6850) and you could get your
TV Typewriter going at 1200 baud.

I later used my MP-C card to interface to an IBM Selectric terminal at 134.5
baud. I had to convert the ASCII to IBM code in software anyway.

Motorola MIKBUG
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MP_A/MP_A_Index.htm

SWTPC 6800 System
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/swtpc_6800.htm

A 1978 picture of me at my Trendata 1000 Selectric terminal (IBM 2741
compatible).
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MySystem/MySystemPhoto.htm

Michael Holley
www.swtpc.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Erlacher" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:00 AM
Subject: software UART


> If you don't mind listings provided as GIF files, here's one URL
> http://www.avocetsystems.com/company/articles/magazine/auart.htm
>
> Dick
>
>
>



From jrkeys at concentric.net  Sun Mar 24 14:42:52 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Goodwill Museum
Message-ID: <013601c1d374$78caaca0$f38c70d8@default>

Is the museum still open?  I tried their web site and got nothing?  I
hope to be going to Austin soon and wanted to stop by and see it up
close.  Thanks


From mythtech at mac.com  Sun Mar 24 14:43:54 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Apple's A/UX
Message-ID: 

>It *used* to be on a site in Germany which now seems to be down for the
>count. Someone on comp.unix.aux is building a new archive which may shortly
>be available; watch that newsgroup.

I'll keep an eye on that group... thanks

-chris




From vance at ikickass.org  Sun Mar 24 15:09:54 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


It might be ESCON, or it might be Parallel-channel.  Take a picture of
the connector.

Peace...  Sridhar

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:35:53 -0500 (EST)
> From: pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
>
> I need some help with this one from the 'experts'.   I know that this is
> the adaptor (one of two) from an IBM 3480 A22 controller that connected
> the device to its host system.   I *think* that it's an ESCON adaptor, but
> want some verification on that.  Also, does anyone have any interest in
> these?  If not, one might make it into my 'museum', but the fate of the
> other is uncertain.   If you have a desire for either or both of these,
> contact me off list.
>
> (Yeah, the 'connector' at the top of the pic is aparently the bus
> terminator.  And no, I don't need the screw-driver handle identified, I
> know what that is ;^)
>
> http://cart-server.purdueriots.com/escon_adaptor_and_terminator.jpg
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Pat
>
>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 24 15:12:44 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Oops (was Re: ZX81 and 6116)
Message-ID: <20020324212411.DECU7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Richard Erlacher 

> That's certainly a horse of a different color.  So the objective was to
> replace a set of 4116's with a single 6116?  That would reduce the
available
> RAM from 16KB to 2KB.  Is that what you wanted?

I've *got* to stop answering mail in the dead of night . . .

For the record:  ZX81s shipped with either a pair of 2114s (1K x 4) or a
single 4118 (1K x 8) -- NOT 4116.  The schematic states that the PCB would
also accept a single 4816 (2K x 8).  The TS1000s I have at hand contain a
single 2016 (2K x 8).

My apologies for the errors.

Glen
0/0

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 24 15:22:45 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: software UART
Message-ID: <20020324212418.DEDX7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Richard Erlacher 

> If you don't mind listings provided as GIF files, here's one URL
> http://www.avocetsystems.com/company/articles/magazine/auart.htm


Thanks, Dick -- very interesting.

Glen
0/0


From fernande at internet1.net  Sun Mar 24 15:26:32 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: FA: PDP11 Qbus cards CPU and Memory
Message-ID: <3C9E4488.9098A461@internet1.net>

Hello,

I'm selling some extra Qbus cards on Ebay.  I know some of you here
don't really like Ebay, but hopefully it'll allow me to recoup some
money that I've spent unwisely on various computers/parts.  Parts that
I've never used, weren't what I though they were, etc.  For those of you
that do use Ebay, please check my auction out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2012307302

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From lists at subatomix.com  Sun Mar 24 16:04:59 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Goodwill Museum
In-Reply-To: <013601c1d374$78caaca0$f38c70d8@default>
References: <013601c1d374$78caaca0$f38c70d8@default>
Message-ID: <10992244480.20020324160459@subatomix.com>

On Sunday, March 24, 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:

> Is the museum still open? I tried their web site and got nothing? I hope
> to be going to Austin soon and wanted to stop by and see it up close.

Bill Bradford showed me the place a few months ago. At that time, they
weren't letting people into the museum area because someone had stolen a
Super Famicom (yes, a freaking Super Nintendo) from it.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From g at kurico.com  Sun Mar 24 16:20:43 2002
From: g at kurico.com (g@kurico.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Goodwill Museum
In-Reply-To: <013601c1d374$78caaca0$f38c70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3C9DFCDB.5761.196C048@localhost>

Nope, still closed.  And now they're using the space so the old stuff is crammed 
against the walls.  Now you _may_ be able to have them let you back to take a 
gander, but last I saw, you'd have to climb over a ton of crap to get to it.  Their 
website is now kaput as well, merged into the overall Goodwill hierarchy (with no 
useful content now).  Might still be worth a trip over just to see what they happen to 
have, but not for the museum.

George

On 24 Mar 2002 at 14:42, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:

> Is the museum still open?  I tried their web site and got nothing?  I
> hope to be going to Austin soon and wanted to stop by and see it up
> close.  Thanks
> 



From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sun Mar 24 18:23:56 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Cool.  Last I was there, they also had some ESCON cables then.  If
anyone's interested, I could grab them.

-- Pat

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:

>
> Cool.  That's ESCON.  If they were two thinner connectors stacked, it
> would be parallel channel.
>
> Peace...  Sridhar
>
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:49:41 -0500 (EST)
> > From: pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com
> > To: Sridhar the POWERful 
> > Subject: Re: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
> >
> > What part of the connector?  The end of the 3480 connector looks the same
> > except some pins seem to be 'connected' to the connector shell:
> >
> >   _______________________________
> >  |+x+x+x+xx+x+   0   +x+xx+x+x+x+|
> > .'             /   /             '.
> > | x+x+x++x+x+x   O   x+x+x++x+x+x |
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > x's are 'non-grounded' pics, +'s are 'grounded pins', 0 is a threaded
> > hole, O is a non-threaded hole, and the /s are screws
> >
> > Grounded means that they're sorrounded by the silvery stuff on the
> > connector shell.  Otherwise, they look exactly like the picture of the
> > terminator i gave a URL to originally.  If you want a picture still, try
> > and be precise about what part of the connector needs clarifying so i have
> > a good idea what to take a pic of
> >
> > On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It might be ESCON, or it might be Parallel-channel.  Take a picture of
> > > the connector.
> > >
> > > Peace...  Sridhar
> > >
> > > On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:35:53 -0500 (EST)
> > > > From: pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com
> > > > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> > > > Subject: IBM 3480 bus adaptor (escon?)
> > > >
> > > > I need some help with this one from the 'experts'.   I know that this is
> > > > the adaptor (one of two) from an IBM 3480 A22 controller that connected
> > > > the device to its host system.   I *think* that it's an ESCON adaptor, but
> > > > want some verification on that.  Also, does anyone have any interest in
> > > > these?  If not, one might make it into my 'museum', but the fate of the
> > > > other is uncertain.   If you have a desire for either or both of these,
> > > > contact me off list.
> > > >
> > > > (Yeah, the 'connector' at the top of the pic is aparently the bus
> > > > terminator.  And no, I don't need the screw-driver handle identified, I
> > > > know what that is ;^)
> > > >
> > > > http://cart-server.purdueriots.com/escon_adaptor_and_terminator.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > -- Pat
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sun Mar 24 19:37:49 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
In-Reply-To: <007d01c1d364$78628f40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
References: 
Message-ID: 

>> article by Glenn Everhart that appeared in the Mid-80's
>> in an issue of the DEC Professional magazine.
>
>Come up with an article date there's a 1:3 chance I can get it for you.
>
>John A.

It's not in Volume 2, Issues 2 or 6 as those are the only two issues I've
got.  Unfortunatly Glenn apparently didn't remember the issue.

			Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From rdd at rddavis.org  Sun Mar 24 19:39:42 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
In-Reply-To: <01e101c1d356$283fc2c0$0101a8c0@jay>
References: <001201c1ad96$a7aa73b0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> <20020204180838.A99189@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20020204184249.GA23087@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <001301c1adaf$cf9958a0$05742452@NEWHARE> <3C5F0FCD.47CC9C03@idirect.com> <10202050007.ZM29048@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C5F623F.A6F0A743@idirect.com> <10203221811.ZM16074@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <01e101c1d356$283fc2c0$0101a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: <20020325013942.GA13940@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Jay West, from writings of Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:04:02AM -0600:
> I am also very interested in TSX+. Right after I finish with the
> HP2000/Access TSB system, the next system I am building is RT-11 w/TSX+. I
> actually have a legal full distribution of TSX+ on RX02 and RX50 diskettes,
[...]
> forward to getting back to RT-11/TSX+ so count me in!!

If TSX-Plus and COBOL-Plus become available, I'll make my GADZOOKS!
BBS (or should that be GADZOOKS! BBS-Plus?)  software for TSX-Plus
available - it still needs some work to make it truly useful, but the
basics are there.  It's written in COBOL-Plus.

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Sun Mar 24 19:41:15 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
Message-ID: <200203250141.AA16507@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:50:18 -0500
> From: "Jerome H. Fine" 
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
>
> Jerome Fine replies:
>
> I DID inquire from S&H as to the possibility of a TSX-PLUS hobby
> license.  Basically the answer was that they were waiting to see what
> Mentec would do - if anything - and in particular the ACTUAL wording
> of any updated RT-11 license from Mentec.
>
> In any case, since there were so few inquiries for TSX-PLUS and
> I was and am still so busy, I dropped the ball.  But until Mentec
> makes the more reasonable license available, it seems that S&H
> wants to just wait and see.
>
> If a couple of others all inquire (in addition to Turnbull and Davis),
> I will inquire again.

Yes I'm still interested in TSX.  I suppose I have a license for it at
work, but I have more better PDP11 computers at home these days.

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                                          clowenstein@ucsd.edu

From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Sun Mar 24 20:15:52 2002
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: Dave McGuire 
        "Re: ZX81 and 6116" (Mar 23, 12:58)
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
	<000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> 
	<10203230921.ZM16500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> 
	<15516.49725.808705.556310@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <10203250315.ZM17821@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 23, 12:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
> On March 23, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > Zilog made a "quasi-static RAM" 4K x 8, called Z8132, but it's
> > 28-pin.
>
>   I think that's the Z6132...interesting chip...

Oops, typo.  Yes, it's a 6132.  I still have a few.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

From brian at quarterbyte.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:47 2002
From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: IBM 2520 card readers
Message-ID: <3C9E1887.11242.F886B02@localhost>

Hey folks, there are a couple of IBM 2420 card read/punches
up for auction along with two IBM 3268-2 dot matrix  printers, 
located in Alabama. It's all in one lot, unfortunately. I'm 
interested in getting ONE of the card readers. Is anyone 
interested in the other reader and/or the printers? (Think
how cool it would be to hook up to your PC running Hercules!)
Reply directly if interested,

Thanks,
Brian


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _|  Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _|  Tel:   1-510-559-7930   Fax: 1-510-525-6889
_| _| _|  Email: brian@quarterbyte.com
_| _| _|  http://www.quarterbyte.com


From mrbill at mrbill.net  Sun Mar 24 20:50:31 2002
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Free PDP-11/23 system *complete*, in Charlotte, NC
Message-ID: <20020325025031.GY24790@mrbill.net>

Email Ron directly if interested.  I'd love it, but I cant afford the
shipping. 8-(

Bill

----- Forwarded message from Ron Williams  -----

From: "Ron Williams" 
To: 
Subject: 11/23 system
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:47:47 -0500

do you know anyone who would be interested in PDP11/23, cards, la180 printer, 
rlo5 disks, etc, dual monitor cad system Design-Grafix software, rx50 diskette 
drives, all in a rollaround system, all rt-11 manuals, software development 
manuals, hardware manuals, circuit diagrams, etc, complete vt240, vt320, all 
in working order. (not new looking, but could be cleaned up) I would like to 
get rid of this stuff, and preferably not pay for shipping, as you know, this 
stuff is heavy.

It served me well in my work, elect engineering, but as you know...
Ron Williams
Charlotte, NC

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX

From aw288 at osfn.org  Sun Mar 24 21:44:27 2002
From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: IBM 2520 card readers
In-Reply-To: <3C9E1887.11242.F886B02@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> Hey folks, there are a couple of IBM 2420 card read/punches
> up for auction along with two IBM 3268-2 dot matrix  printers, 
> located in Alabama. 

I think the 2520 is just a card punch. 2501 is the reader. 2540 is the 
combination punch and reader.

Anyway, the 2520 is a bus and tag device. It, along with the 2501, are 
unique in that they will hog an entire channel. Because of this, they 
units were never mixed with anything else, as a simple card read or punch 
job would bring the whole system to a crawl.

William Donzelli
aw288@osfn.org 

From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Sun Mar 24 21:44:57 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: Free PDP-11/23 system *complete*, in Charlotte, NC
References: <20020325025031.GY24790@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E9D39.68DF7B00@compsys.to>

Bill Bradford wrote:

> From: "Ron Williams" 
> To: 
> Subject: 11/23 system
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:47:47 -0500
>
> do you know anyone who would be interested in PDP11/23, cards, la180 printer,
> rlo5 disks, etc, dual monitor cad system Design-Grafix software, rx50 diskette
> drives, all in a rollaround system, all rt-11 manuals, software development
> manuals, hardware manuals, circuit diagrams, etc, complete vt240, vt320, all
> in working order. (not new looking, but could be cleaned up) I would like to
> get rid of this stuff, and preferably not pay for shipping, as you know, this
> stuff is heavy.
>
> It served me well in my work, elect engineering, but as you know...
> Ron Williams
> Charlotte, NC

Jerome Fine replies:

I also can't pick it up.  However, if there is a Qbus controller for
the RK05 drive, I have some old packs with old RT-11 distributions
that I was to "rescue" BEFORE I part with the RK05 drive that
I have.  If anyone actually picks this up, they can have both the
packs and the RK05 drive after I copy the files if I can just borrow
the Qbus RK05 controller.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 24 22:45:32 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:42 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467764@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote:

> > 
> >   A multi-channel adapter or multiple adapters, running JBOD, with
> > intelligent filesystem groupings, will probably boost your speed as much
> > as RAID will.  (Assuming a single-user general-use Unix desktop.)  RAID
> > can be tuned to big sequential reads or writes, or a lot of small r/w,
> > but it's damn difficult to get middle-ground or all-around performance.
> > 
> >
> >   All that said, it's good practice and fun.
> >
> > 	Doc
> >
> Doc - As someone who never played with RAID before, can you provide an
> example setup, or two?

David,
  I'm cleaning out my Inbox, and I couldn't remember if I saved this
because I answered, or because I was going to....
  Anyway, since I probably didn't, here are a couple links to clearer
info than I can give:

  Quick&Dirty overview:
http://www.uni-mainz.de/~neuffer/scsi/what_is_raid.html

  More detailed:
http://www.amsstorage.com/html/raid_overview.html

  RAID management is more of an art than a skill-set. The number and
range of variables is staggering.  And I'm a rank amateur....

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 25 00:35:12 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

  Oops!  That was supposed to be off-list.

  Never mind....

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote:
>
> > > 
> > >   A multi-channel adapter or multiple adapters, running JBOD, with
> > > intelligent filesystem groupings, will probably boost your speed as much
> > > as RAID will.  (Assuming a single-user general-use Unix desktop.)  RAID
> > > can be tuned to big sequential reads or writes, or a lot of small r/w,
> > > but it's damn difficult to get middle-ground or all-around performance.
> > > 
> > >
> > >   All that said, it's good practice and fun.
> > >
> > > 	Doc
> > >
> > Doc - As someone who never played with RAID before, can you provide an
> > example setup, or two?
>
> David,
>   I'm cleaning out my Inbox, and I couldn't remember if I saved this
> because I answered, or because I was going to....
>   Anyway, since I probably didn't, here are a couple links to clearer
> info than I can give:
>
>   Quick&Dirty overview:
> http://www.uni-mainz.de/~neuffer/scsi/what_is_raid.html
>
>   More detailed:
> http://www.amsstorage.com/html/raid_overview.html
>
>   RAID management is more of an art than a skill-set. The number and
> range of variables is staggering.  And I'm a rank amateur....
>
> 	Doc
>


From John.Franklin at sita.co.za  Mon Mar 25 00:36:33 2002
From: John.Franklin at sita.co.za (John Franklin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Heathkit et-3100
Message-ID: 


can anyone help.  I am looking for manuals, diagrams etc  or  any info on
the Heathkit ET-3100  

From edick at idcomm.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:37 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <000b01c1d22d$adbeabc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <10203230921.ZM16500@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <15516.49725.808705.556310@phaduka.neurotica.com> <10203250315.ZM17821@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d3cb$9b4cad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Has anybody ever tried sticking a 61512 extracted from the cache array on an
old '486 board onto a daughterboard with the CPU in one of these boxes?

I've done that with quite a number of different Z80's and had pretty good
luck.  What makes it work really well, but limits the application to those
cases in which the memory map is monolithic, is modifying the system ROM to
include a routine to copy the ROM into the SRAM on hard reset, and then
disabling itself by means of a flipflop that is set when the top address is
written.

I can provide details, but, believe me, it has saved me lots of hassle with
memory interfaces, since DRAMs often go wierd and require considerable effort
to fix, since they're often stupidly designed.  SRAMs as you are trying to
replace are generally less likely to go bonkers, but if you want to expand the
memory, the method I've suggested works rather well and maxes out the memory
map.  It also allows you to increase the CPU speed considerably.

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Turnbull" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> On Mar 23, 12:58, Dave McGuire wrote:
> > On March 23, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > > Zilog made a "quasi-static RAM" 4K x 8, called Z8132, but it's
> > > 28-pin.
> >
> >   I think that's the Z6132...interesting chip...
>
> Oops, typo.  Yes, it's a 6132.  I still have a few.
>
> --
> Pete Peter Turnbull
> Network Manager
> University of York
>
>


From GOOI at oce.nl  Mon Mar 25 01:22:37 2002
From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8D91@hqvenloexch.oce.nl>

I did also show my interest in TSX-Plus, and with this e-mail
renew that interest.
I have the TSX-Plus documentation for version 5 and a bit more.
I scanned all of a binder of S&H that I have at 600 dpi and it
is 200 Mb of TIFF files. The binder contains:
 - System Manager's Guide
 - TSX-Plus version 5.1 and 5.1C release notes
 - TSX-Plus version 6.0, 6.01, 6.2, 6.3 and 6.31 release notes
 - System Manager's Guide version 5 (14 files, total 37.4 Mb)
   (contents, introduction, chapters 1-9, appendix A, B and index)
 - Installation Guide version 5 (10 files, total 20.5 Mb)
   (contents, introduction, chapters 1-5, appendix A, B and index)
 - TSX-Plus Reference manual 5th edition, 1985

But, because of copyrights with S&H I can not offer this CD-ROM
to an ftp site for download.  When S&H makes TSX-Plus available,
the documentation will be available.

- Henk.



From claudew at videotron.ca  Mon Mar 25 02:27:30 2002
From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Looking for 8M (4M?) 72 pin parity for old Indigo
Message-ID: <00a001c1d3d6$e7880e00$6400a8c0@gamerclaude>

Hi

I am looking for 72 pin true parity simms to stick in an old indigo that
does seem to digest non-parity or EDO simms.

Claude

http://computer_collector.tripod.com



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 06:00:26 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
Message-ID: <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

	I've gotten my '040 Cube's optical drive functioning again and now I
want to take the original distribution optical disks for various
versions of NeXTstep and make bootable copies of them on more usable
media, preferably for storage as disk images and as bootable volumes on
another SCSI disk.  I was thinking of using another magneto-optical
drive, such as my Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB.  I've got enough
optical disks to do this and the drive is an external MO.  Is this
doable?  The images will have to contend with up to 256MB of data and 
must be fully writable to a new physical disk, including all boot 
information.

	My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage.  The
distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2.  They've been verified as 
readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being 
locked).  Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I 
really don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them 
to another media before I lose the ability to
read them altogether.

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.
	  Thanks
	  Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 07:30:12 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Looking for 8M (4M?) 72 pin parity for old Indigo
In-Reply-To: <00a001c1d3d6$e7880e00$6400a8c0@gamerclaude>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020325083012.00806100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Did you try E-bay? It's a good place to find stuff like that.


  Joe

At 03:27 AM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I am looking for 72 pin true parity simms to stick in an old indigo that
>does seem to digest non-parity or EDO simms.
>
>Claude
>
>http://computer_collector.tripod.com
>
>
>


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 08:55:22 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <20020324053549.IJTH2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C9F486A.10115.62941253@localhost>

> > Assuming I wanted to get a ZX-81, what would I want?

> Take a stable ZX81 or TS1000 and pull off the composite video to feed a
> monitor.  Add a decent keyboard and bump the RAM to 64KB.  You'll want a
> printer and a good cassette recorder, too.

> If you don't plan to add any hardware which requires a ROM, then you might
> want to add NVRAM to the unoccupied 8-16K address space.  A Hunter board is
> perfect for this, if you can find one.

> If you require hardware which could benefit from having code in ROM, then
> the 8-16K space can be used by an add-on ROM.

Well, this would be a neat professional ZX81 setup - just you miss the
whole fun of getting the real minimalistic ZX81. One _can_ do usefull
stuff with just one or two KBytes of RAM. one has a real lot of fun
by just playing around with this little plasic box in front of an old
TV set.

I'd suggest an out of the box ZX81 (or Timex 1000) to start with, and
realy trying to play with only one K ... next step could be the internal
expansion to whooping TWO K - and oh boy, programmers dreams will come
thru. A 16K expansion is already semiprofessional (and needed if you
want to run most of the software (still, there are a lot of amazing
programms for just one K - inclunding books with several such programms.
I still think tha'ts the most fun, haggling with tight resources).

Eventualy over time a PIO/Joystick Interface is also a nice add on.

If you'd like to have a little more luxury, a TS1500 is your choice.
A 'real' keyboard (rubber keys) and 16 K (?) of memory !

A professional system, like Glen tells is quite nice, but you need
also some more knowledge about the pitfalls of a ZX. Start of with
the fun of a simple system, and if you're a late victim of the ZX
infection, then you'll soon expand into the ZX96 dimension.

Gruss
H.
(Not a ZX fan, but I realy like to dig out a ZX80 or 81 from time to
time just to play around with the most minimalistic _full_ system ever)







--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Mon Mar 25 09:34:20 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> 805x processors cannot (without external hardware) write to program memory,
so any
> line assembler would be dependant on some (common) hardware tricks to write
to
> program space.

Although I keep some Intel parts around, I prefer the Dallas
Semiconductor DS5000 familiy, which allows software to partition
its 64k memory between code space and data space.

However, I'll grant that this qualifies under your definition of
"hardware tricks", even though it's not quite what you had in mind.

Regards,
-dq

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 10:08:26 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: TSX-PLUS (Was MicroPDP 11/73)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B6A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerome H. Fine [mailto:jhfinepw4z@compsys.to]

> If a couple of others all inquire (in addition to Turnbull and Davis),
> I will inquire again.

Well, I've never used TSX-11, but TSX-32 is interesting, and my
PDP still has no useable system on it. :)  ... so count me in.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 10:21:06 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DCA IRMA-III convertible 3270 interface
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B6B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org]

> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> >   He's still crashing on my couch...I think the whoe gulf 
> coast thing is
> > getting to his brain.  Clean air and...umm...well, spring break,
> > beach, bikinis that are about this --> <-- big, you kno... ;)

> So now I'm sitting here in my toner-stained pants, sucking on a bloody
> knuckle, and I only want to know one thing.

> Where the @*(*& did I go wrong?

Well, nowhere necessarily.  Bloody knuckles are part of the hobby,
and I suppose toner-stains might be too.  Bikinis are part of a
different hobby.  :)

There's nothing which prevents you from taking another hobby up,
you'll just have to decide how to spend your time. 

I have been doing less computer stuff recently, for instance, in
favor of musical composition.  Nothing to do with bikinis, mind 
you, but it could if I get famous. ;)

... on the other hand, maybe at some point in the future, computers
will be considered "sexy."

Chris

Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 10:35:13 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Symbolics 3620 screen issues
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B6C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]

> > console monitors are very special and very strange things. 
> Mono screen,
> > some audio stuff in it, keyboard and mouse controller, ... and it is
> > connected to the machine with a single cable. They are completely
> > different from everything else on the world. 

> That, actually, doesn't mean a darn thing...
> Consider the portrait monitor on my PERQ 2T1. It's got 3 
> physical cables 
> back the host, which actually form 1 'logical cable' -- video 
> (no syncs) 
> : BNC, power : 3 pin DIN, everything else (syncs, 
> keyboard/tablet power 
> and signals, audio, etc) : DA15. 

IIRC, the NeXT mono monitors, which have everything (which I
suggest in this context to mean sound, video, mouse, keyboard)
connected to the monitor through a single 19 pin cable, aren't
otherwise too weird at all... :)

Chris

Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 10:42:35 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B6E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]

> This is needed as part of their work on invalidating Patent 6,185,681
> Here is the link about it from /.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24557.html
> "A previously unknown Californian firm which has obtained a patent for
> application-independent file encryption is seeking to enforce 
> licensing from
> other companies in the security industry. "

Um... Has anyone tried contacting Glenn?  IIRC, he reads comp.os.vms,
and maybe he kept a copy...

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu  Mon Mar 25 11:04:09 2002
From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: New hard drive in an Indigo2
Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677B6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>

Doc ---
	Well, it does sort of apply here. It was "created" about 15 years
ago... And I'm sure other lurkers would benefit from the links too...

---   David A Woyciesjes
---   C & IS Support Specialist
---   Yale University Press
---   mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
---   (203) 432-0953
---   ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec  7 21:39:35 PST 2001
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

> ----------
> From: 	Doc
> 
>   Oops!  That was supposed to be off-list.
> 
>   Never mind....
> 
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> >
> > > Doc - As someone who never played with RAID before, can you provide an
> > > example setup, or two?
> >
> > David,
> >   I'm cleaning out my Inbox, and I couldn't remember if I saved this
> > because I answered, or because I was going to....
> >   Anyway, since I probably didn't, here are a couple links to clearer
> > info than I can give:
> >
> >   Quick&Dirty overview:
> > http://www.uni-mainz.de/~neuffer/scsi/what_is_raid.html
> >
> >   More detailed:
> > http://www.amsstorage.com/html/raid_overview.html
> >
> >   RAID management is more of an art than a skill-set. The number and
> > range of variables is staggering.  And I'm a rank amateur....
> >
> > 	Doc

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Mar 25 11:31:15 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
References: <3C9F486A.10115.62941253@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F5EE3.EE451943@jetnet.ab.ca>

Hans Franke wrote:
 
> A professional system, like Glen tells is quite nice, but you need
> also some more knowledge about the pitfalls of a ZX. Start of with
> the fun of a simple system, and if you're a late victim of the ZX
> infection, then you'll soon expand into the ZX96 dimension.
Back then I was kind of waiting for a better low cost machine than a
ZX-80
when mine died ie: Real keyboard, real memory , floppy disk even .
I was hoping for 68000 something but it never happened. 

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 11:35:22 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020323045407.GUJG2748.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3C9F6DEA.30036.63268BE2@localhost>

> > > Pete, what modifications to the board are required in order to use a
> > > 6116?

> > I don't have either the service manual or my ZX81 handy, so
> > I can't check, but as far as I remember, just remove the
> > 4118 and replace with a 6116.

That's right. If the socket is there ...

> >  There might be a wire link to change (if so, it's obvious) but I don't
> > remember having to do that.

> There are no links on the board for different memory configurations.

I think Pete is right here. there was a wire you had to add if
you used a 4118 (or 6116) instead of the 2114s. I have to grab
the kit documentation to veryfy this.


> >  A few ZX81's had a pair of 2114's instead of the normal 4118, which were
> > in short supply at one time, but the same principle applies (the PCB is
> > the same).

> I read that using the 2114s saved Uncle Sir Clive 25p per unit. 

In fact, all of the 81s I opened back then had 2114s.

And now for something totaly different:

Digging thru my ZX Stuff I found an _original_ "ZX81 2-K RAM" Kit *G*

Well, it is at least original over here, since it has been sold by ISS,
the official distributor of ZX81 stuff in Germany.

The kit konsists of a 24 pin socket and a NEC D446C-2 RAM

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 11:35:22 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020324040119.RMJA1250.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 23, 2 10:59:50 pm
Message-ID: <3C9F6DEA.28751.63268BF2@localhost>

> > > I guess I'm having a "senior moment" but I don't remember the 4118 at
> > all,
> > Excuse the typo, this should read "4116."

> No it shouldn't, at least not if it concerns the ZX81 logic board.

TS 1500 will do the trick :)

> 4118. 1K*8 static RAM, 24 pin DIL package. Used in the ZX81.

> 4116 16K*1 dynamic RAM. 16 pin DIL package. Used in the ZX81 16K RAMpack 
> and in just about every other micro of the time...

> The ZX81 logic board was designed to hold 1K of static RAM. Either as a 
> single 4118 or a pair of 2114s (1K*4 static RAM, 18 pin DIL package). 

Or a 6116. AFAIR, the TS1000 has been sold with 2 K as
standard configuration.

> There were pads to solder either type of chip onto the board. I guess 
> Sinclair used whichever was cheaper at the time.

Sounds good.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 11:40:32 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

>Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that 
>you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:

	Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not.  My plan 
is to dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for 
storage and burn them to CD.  I'll also try to dump the image back to 
disk using the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com  Mon Mar 25 11:45:46 2002
From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094404.02815ec0@mcmanis.com>

Just a note that  lists two copies of 
Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's 
cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.

--Chuck


From r_beaudry at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 17:47:34 2002
From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Apple 3.5" controller card
Message-ID: 

Hello all,

I recently received an Apple-branded 3.5" floppy drive controller card.  
After doing a bit of web research, I found out it was a "LIRON" card, and 
NOT a SuperDrive card.  I also found out that it will only work with a 
specific type of 3.5" drive: the UniDisk.

I don't have a UniDisk, so the next logical questions are:

- Does anyone have a UniDisk 3.5" drive that they's be willing to 
swap/dump/sell?  Yes, I did see a couple on eBay, but I'd rather avoid 
paying $40-$50 for one....

- If I do not find a UniDisk, would anyone want this?  What would you trade 
for it?  I have no docs, and it is the card/cable only.  If I do not find a 
UniDisk, then it is untested, except to say that I put it in an Apple IIe, 
with no drive connected, and it did NOT smoke :-)

Thanks!

Rich B.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 11:59:07 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <3C9F5EE3.EE451943@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3C9F737B.11700.633C4C4E@localhost>

> > A professional system, like Glen tells is quite nice, but you need
> > also some more knowledge about the pitfalls of a ZX. Start of with
> > the fun of a simple system, and if you're a late victim of the ZX
> > infection, then you'll soon expand into the ZX96 dimension.
> Back then I was kind of waiting for a better low cost machine than a
> ZX-80 when mine died ie: Real keyboard, real memory , floppy disk even .
> I was hoping for 68000 something but it never happened. 

Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.

A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as
much as the first Mac, but expandable to 640 or 900) and two tape
drives with ~100K each.

Furthermore: Serial Interface, Joystick Ports and a full figured
Network. As cream ontop of the cake a complete application suite
with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.

And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower
than all other comparable systems (in fact even lower than the
C64 in some shops)

Maybe check

http://www.uni-mainz.de/~roklein/ql/

for raw technical data or

http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/aboutql/aboutql.html

for quite detailed information

and just for the heck of it, there is the Q40 and Q60, a 68040/060
based QL compatible system with 40 to 80 MHz. See

http://www.q40.de/

Seams like the Germans have a hang for pushing old stuff beyond all
Linits (check the ZX-Team pages, or the Milan, as stat of the art
Atari ST follow up).

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 12:02:46 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B73@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hellige [mailto:jhellige@earthlink.net]

> 	My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
> images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage.  The
> distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
> 3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2.  They've been verified as 
> readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being 
> locked).  Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I 
> really don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them 
> to another media before I lose the ability to
> read them altogether.

Well, after reading your post two or three times, and 
not finding a question in it, I'm going to try to answer 
anyway. :)

I'll assume the questing is something like:

"How on earth do I make a copies of the distribution
disks onto different media?"

Anyway, what I would do is to make an image, using dd, 
of one of the disks, and then try to put it on the 
external drive.  See if you can boot it from there,
and then read the image back from the external drive
and make sure it hasn't changed.

If that works, repeat the process.  I would also try
burning the image onto cd with cdrecord (for instance),
if it's possible.  That may just turn out to be another
option.  The added bonus here is that CDs are common as
dirt.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 12:08:34 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <01C1D1F1.32E24E20@mse-d03>
Message-ID: <3C9F75B2.17369.6344F047@localhost>

> That's it all right; dual 5" floppies, 16K SRAM, OS in ROM, RS232 
> & Parallel, and lots of optional modules for developing, emulating
> & programming R6500 stuff & the R6500/1 single-chip micros.

Sounds quite right and fits to my memore ... especialy the
whooping 16K RAM.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 12:09:06 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>

Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that you 
should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:

dd if=/dev/ of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here

I create floppy images by:

dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage

You should be able to do the same for the OD images.  It takes about 5 
minutes to create a floppyimage (1.44mb) on my Turbo Slab, so the 
process won't be fast on a whole 256mb OD.  You may have to create a 
disktab entry for the Pinnacle Micro Optical Drive, but I've got a Jaz 
and a Zip working on my Slab, so I'm sure it's very doable.



Jeff Hellige wrote:

>     I've gotten my '040 Cube's optical drive functioning again and now I
> want to take the original distribution optical disks for various
> versions of NeXTstep and make bootable copies of them on more usable
> media, preferably for storage as disk images and as bootable volumes on
> another SCSI disk.  I was thinking of using another magneto-optical
> drive, such as my Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB.  I've got enough
> optical disks to do this and the drive is an external MO.  Is this
> doable?  The images will have to contend with up to 256MB of data and 
> must be fully writable to a new physical disk, including all boot 
> information.
> 
>     My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
> images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage.  The
> distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
> 3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2.  They've been verified as 
> readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being 
> locked).  Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I really 
> don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them to another 
> media before I lose the ability to
> read them altogether.
> 
>      Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>       Thanks
>       Jeff



From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu  Mon Mar 25 12:09:36 2002
From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Semi-OT: PMac 6100 DOS
Message-ID: <58728989@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 782 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020325/f7d61930/attachment.bin
From aek at spies.com  Mon Mar 25 12:34:17 2002
From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
Message-ID: <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com>


> Just a note that  lists two copies of
> Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's
> cheaper than Ebay by a long shot. 

I have one up for $49 with no bids right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011505056

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Mar 25 12:39:46 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
References: <3C9F737B.11700.633C4C4E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F6EF2.2DB62191@jetnet.ab.ca>

Hans Franke wrote:
> Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.
> 
> A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
> good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as
> much as the first Mac, but expandable to 640 or 900) and two tape
> drives with ~100K each.
> 
> Furthermore: Serial Interface, Joystick Ports and a full figured
> Network. As cream ontop of the cake a complete application suite
> with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.
> 
> And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower
> than all other comparable systems (in fact even lower than the
> C64 in some shops)

First I live in CANADA so we get more US stuff than from the UK in
computers.This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
I found out that it cost APPLE $100 ??? to make the $500 ??? floppy
system for their computer reading the history of the apple from a web
site. 

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 12:59:37 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
 <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net>

I've been using dd on Solaris to make images, don't know why I didn't 
think about that last night, brainfart maybe.  Let me know how 
connecting the PM 1.3gb goes.  Getting the Jaz up was "fun". I've passed 
on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it works, it might be fun getting 
one next time.  I have just installed a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my 
#1 cube.  I'm going to try burning a few "coasters" on the cube.  I'll 
let you know how it goes.

James

Jeff Hellige wrote:

>> Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that 
>> you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
> 
> 
>     Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not.  My plan is to 
> dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for storage 
> and burn them to CD.  I'll also try to dump the image back to disk using 
> the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.
> 
>     Jeff



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Mon Mar 25 13:08:47 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3C9F6EF2.2DB62191@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3C9F83CF.18523.637C150A@localhost>

> > Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.

> > A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
> > good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as
> > much as the first Mac, but expandable to 640 or 900) and two tape
> > drives with ~100K each.

> > Furthermore: Serial Interface, Joystick Ports and a full figured
> > Network. As cream ontop of the cake a complete application suite
> > with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.

> > And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower
> > than all other comparable systems (in fact even lower than the
> > C64 in some shops)

> First I live in CANADA so we get more US stuff than from the UK in
> computers.

AFAIK there are still copyright issues for the ROMs in the US and CA.
While Amstrad allows the distribution of ROM images for emulators/new
machines, it is restricted to Europe, since there are still valid deals
with some US companies holding the QL rights in North america.

> This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.

Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers. 

And second, yes, no disks, but for what ? the microdrives where (in
the 1983 timeframe) quite comperable to any SOHO System - 100k per
media and an access time comperable to most small systems, including
the Apple (of course quite faster than unmodigfied C64s :).

And adding a disc controler wasn't that expansive (720K 3.5"), if
your need did ourtgrow the microdrives.

> I found out that it cost APPLE $100 ??? to make the $500 ??? floppy
> system for their computer reading the history of the apple from a web
> site. 

That's called best bussines practice :))

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From rochster at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 13:10:54 2002
From: rochster at hotmail.com (Roch Henry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Cook Race
Message-ID: 

I'm looking for the Schematics or the pinouts to a Cook Race arcade game. I've just bought the two PCB with no information on how to connect it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

                                                         Thanks for your time.

Roch Henry
Henry Amusements
Ottawa, CanadaGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020325/73afd719/attachment.html
From healyzh at aracnet.com  Mon Mar 25 13:36:49 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B6E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: 

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]
>
>> This is needed as part of their work on invalidating Patent 6,185,681
>> Here is the link about it from /.
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24557.html
>> "A previously unknown Californian firm which has obtained a patent for
>> application-independent file encryption is seeking to enforce
>> licensing from
>> other companies in the security industry. "
>
>Um... Has anyone tried contacting Glenn?  IIRC, he reads comp.os.vms,
>and maybe he kept a copy...

Apparently Glenn contacted them, he's the one that provided the rather
sketch information on the article.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From zmerch at 30below.com  Mon Mar 25 13:45:02 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3C9F83CF.18523.637C150A@localhost>
References: <3C9F6EF2.2DB62191@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325144502.016bdad0@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words:
[[and the original poster said before that...]]

>> This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
>
>Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
>different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
>OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
>and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
>MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers. 

Not all Basic's are created equal -- I'd still give my left  to be
able to run a Basic09-like package [for OS-9] on my other machines... That
was another very powerful Basic.

>> I found out that it cost APPLE $100 ??? to make the $500 ??? floppy
>> system for their computer reading the history of the apple from a web
>> site. 
>
>That's called best bussines practice :))

How much do you think it costs Micro$haft to make a new version of windows,
compared to the number of copies they jam down our throats?

As as been said many times before, they only charge what the market will bear.

If Apple got a lot of people to buy them, and folks didn't complain about
the price,  and Apple didn't stifle competition so they could jack
up the prices even more  does it really matter what they charged
vs. what it cost them to build?

 Most car chargers for cell phones cost between $20 - $35 USD
each retail - they cost the dealers between $1.95 - $2.95 each, quantity
10.

The beauty of capitalism. 

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu  Mon Mar 25 14:04:19 2002
From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: 20" SGI/Philips FC20AS monitor
Message-ID: <200203252104190894.0CCD5A1F@mail.local>

Hello,

i recently got an old (1992) 20" monitor of type
SGI/Philips FC20AS. as far as i was able to find out
it is probably a 64kHz fixed frequency model. does
anyone have more information on this critter?
maybe even a Modeline or something like that?

thanks in advance!

regards,

Szabolcs Rumim


From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 14:15:54 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B77@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com]

> Not all Basic's are created equal -- I'd still give my left 
>  to be
> able to run a Basic09-like package [for OS-9] on my other 
> machines... That
> was another very powerful Basic.

For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)

I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.

Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.

Anyway, the point is that things based on BASIC don't need to
be all bad.  There is little difference between BASIC and many
command languages which are perfectly useable.  Now, whether 
one would write real software in it is another question.

> How much do you think it costs Micro$haft to make a new 
> version of windows,
> compared to the number of copies they jam down our throats?

Well, I don't know about you, but nobody's ever forced me to
buy a copy of windows.  As a result, I never have bought a
copy of windows ;)  All my computers run other stuff, and are
much better off for it.

Give me CP/M any day.

> As as been said many times before, they only charge what the 
> market will bear.

I'm sure that at least some of the people in Apple may have
been certain that they had added that much value to the drive.

> If Apple got a lot of people to buy them, and folks didn't 
> complain about
> the price,  and Apple didn't stifle competition so 
> they could jack
> up the prices even more  does it really matter what 
> they charged
> vs. what it cost them to build?

It would have been a great opportunity for a competing company
to produce apple 2 compatible drives.

>  Most car chargers for cell phones cost between $20 
> - $35 USD
> each retail - they cost the dealers between $1.95 - $2.95 
> each, quantity
> 10.

> The beauty of capitalism. 

It's amazing what you can get for a couple of wires and a 
cigarette lighter plug.

Chris



Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From marvin at rain.org  Mon Mar 25 14:40:20 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: HP-85 For Sale
References: <200203252104190894.0CCD5A1F@mail.local>
Message-ID: <3C9F8B34.E33E4C2E@rain.org>


I've got an HP-85 that I am offering to the list before I put it out on
Ebay, the price is $200.00 plus shipping. The unit is fairly heavy
(approximately 75 pounds) as everything is contained in a wooden plywood
box. If the box is not wanted, I can repack it separately which will
reduce the weight.

This includes quite a bit of stuff including approximately 50 tapes
including several that are the original HP tapes, manuals, Rom Pak
cartridge, six rolls of HP Thermal Printer tape, and a modem with the HP
Modem Communications Tape.

This worked the last time I checked, and the only problem was the drive
roller for the tape drive went soft and needs to be replaced before
using. In any case, if it doesn't work (and I'll check it out before
shipping), I have several and will make sure the one that ships works
:).

Manuals included are:

HP-85 Matrix Rom Manual
HP-85 I/O Programming Guide
HP-85 Math PAC (copy, not original)
HP-85 Games PAC (copy, not original)
HP-85 Text Editing PAC (copy, not original)
HP-85 Plotter/Printer Rom Manual
HP-85 Owner's Manual and Programming Guide
HP-85 Standard PAC
HP-85 Assembly-Level Service Manual (copy, not original)
Advanced Programming ROM
HP-IB Installation and Teory of Operation Manual
HP-IB Peripheral Installation Instructions

From marvin at rain.org  Mon Mar 25 14:43:44 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ISA POST Card For Sale
References: <200203252104190894.0CCD5A1F@mail.local>
Message-ID: <3C9F8C00.87B43F32@rain.org>


I have an extra Micro 2000-1 ISA POST card for sale at $5.00 plus
shipping. It appears to be fixed at Port I/O 80 so it wouldn't work with
Compaq computers (and perhaps some others.) It has LEDs for +5v, -5v,
+12v, -12v, and two seven segment displays for the POST codes.

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Mon Mar 25 15:05:09 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8C7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
> incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)
> 
> I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.
> 
> Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.

While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
I should look at the source...

-dq

From csmith at amdocs.com  Mon Mar 25 15:25:51 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B7A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com]

> > I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.

> > Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.

> While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
> of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
> I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
> I should look at the source...

Could be.  Not having used DEC BASIC, myself, I'm not sure :)

I am sure that Turbo Basic was a compiler.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From r_beaudry at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 21:27:07 2002
From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Blank CMS SCSI boards for Apple 2
Message-ID: 


{ the following was also posted on comp.sys.apple2 -- apologies if you have 
to read it twice :-) }

Hello all,

I just won on eBay a lot of blank CMS SCSI cards for the Apple 2. They
appear to be production circuit boards, silkscreened, plated, traces
run, etc., but NO parts or connectors installed.  The following link
to eBay gets you there, with a picture of the boards:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2006140386

I suspect that there is a ROM on board, and some long-obsolete SCSI
controller chip on board as well, so I hold little hope, but I'd like
to turn one or more of these into functional cards.  With that goal in
mind, here are some questions:

- Does anyone have a ROM that they could make me a HEX dump of?  I
have no idea what revision board this is, unfortunately...

- Can someone help me ID the board revision from part placement, etc.?

- Would anyone be willing to take detailed digital pictures of their
board and send them to me, so I can try to re-create it?

- Would anyone be willing to loan me their board for a week or two so
I can analyse it?

Anyone who can help me with this will be sent one of these boards, if
they desire...  Well, let me say the first 20 or so to help get a
board ... I've only got 25! :-)

Thanks!

Rich B.



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Mon Mar 25 15:46:03 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066501@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


	>While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
	>of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
	>I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess

	I don't know which platform/OS you are considering,
	but under OpenVMS, DEC BASIC is both a compiler
	and an interpreter.

	>I should look at the source...

	Not OpenVMS then ...

	Antonio



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 16:28:19 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
Message-ID: 

>Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that 
>you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
>
>dd if=/dev/ of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
>
>I create floppy images by:
>
>dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage

	Ok, I got dd sending output from the optical disk to an 
external hard disk, called 'Connor', using the following:

	dd if=/dev/od0a of=/Connor/NS32back

	It creates a file called NS32back on the 'Connor' volume.  I 
did this because the internal drive is small in the '040 Cube.  It 
actually did it at a pretty good pace, though I couldn't hear the 
reads from the optical disk so I ejected the optical disk and ran the 
command again and if then asked me to insert it.  What would the 
appropriate command be to read the image file and copy back to 
/dev/od0a?

	Thanks
	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From zaft at azstarnet.com  Mon Mar 25 16:53:02 2002
From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8C7@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020325155153.028cd1f0@mail.azstarnet.com>

At 04:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
>of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
>I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
>I should look at the source...

         If you're talking about DEC BASIC as implement on VMS, you are wrong:

[Monica] $ basic hello.bas
[Monica] $ link hello
[Monica] $ run hello
Hello, world.
[Monica] $
[Monica] $ basic

VAX BASIC V3.8-000

Ready

         It's an interpreter AND a compiler.  (this is OpenVMS 7.2).

GZ


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 16:57:27 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094404.02815ec0@mcmanis.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020325175727.0080c200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Chuck,

   You should check E-bay more often. My copy of that book sold for $16! :-(

    Joe


At 09:45 AM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Just a note that  lists two copies of 
>Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's 
>cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
>
>--Chuck
>
>


From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Mon Mar 25 18:21:49 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
References: <3.0.6.32.20020325175727.0080c200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <00fe01c1d45c$391bfda0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

I've been looking for this book for a while-
the last few copies on ebay all went over 50$,
so Al's price isn't out of order.. it seems to
be the going rate. It is THE DEC book to have ;)

cheers,
Heinz

>    You should check E-bay more often. My copy of that book sold for $16!
:-(
>
>     Joe
> At 09:45 AM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just a note that  lists two copies of
> >Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57.
That's
> >cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
> >
> >--Chuck



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 18:34:15 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Heathkit et-3100
In-Reply-To:  from "John Franklin" at Mar 25, 2 08:36:33 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 437 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020326/95fa01a5/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 18:44:43 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <3C9F737B.11700.633C4C4E@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 25, 2 06:59:07 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1701 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020326/2b706947/attachment.ksh
From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Mon Mar 25 18:48:27 2002
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: Bernie Klatt - you out there?
Message-ID: <20020325164623.S16253-100000@agora.rdrop.com>

... or more to the point, does anyone know or have a copy of the famous
(or should that be 'infamous') 8BBS software?

I've been considering a bit of a BBS retrospective, and thought having an
'8 running a BBS would be an interesting addition.

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Mon Mar 25 19:05:27 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:43 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To:  from "Heinz Wolter" at Mar 25, 2002 07:21:49 PM
Message-ID: <200203260105.g2Q15Ru10805@shell1.aracnet.com>

> I've been looking for this book for a while-
> the last few copies on ebay all went over 50$,
> so Al's price isn't out of order.. it seems to
> be the going rate. It is THE DEC book to have ;)

Worse, it's one of the few I don't have! :^(

	Zane

From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 19:13:58 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
	 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net> <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3C9FCB56.3744191E@texoma.net>

I've started using dd to store an images on an internal ftp server.  I
had an extra P3 and motherboard, so I set it up with 4 80gb hard
drives.  Lots of room.  I've started dumping all of the stuff that I've
downloaded over the past 10-15 years (back to the BBS days).  Gets rid
of all of the clutter of floppy disks, CD, etc.

James

Jeff Hellige wrote:
> 
> >Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that
> >you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
> 
>         Thanks...I wasn't sure if dd would handle it or not.  My plan
> is to dump the disk to images, copy them over Appletalk to my G3 for
> storage and burn them to CD.  I'll also try to dump the image back to
> disk using the Pinnacle, one disk image per side.
> 
>         Jeff
> --
>                       Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                 http://www.cchaven.com
>                   http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 19:16:42 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
	 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net> 
Message-ID: <3C9FCBFA.79ED6556@texoma.net>

Judst reverse the commands:

dd if=/Connor/NS32back of=/dev/od0a

James

Jeff Hellige wrote:
> 
> >Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that
> >you should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
> >
> >dd if=/dev/ of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
> >
> >I create floppy images by:
> >
> >dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage
> 
>         Ok, I got dd sending output from the optical disk to an
> external hard disk, called 'Connor', using the following:
> 
>         dd if=/dev/od0a of=/Connor/NS32back
> 
>         It creates a file called NS32back on the 'Connor' volume.  I
> did this because the internal drive is small in the '040 Cube.  It
> actually did it at a pretty good pace, though I couldn't hear the
> reads from the optical disk so I ejected the optical disk and ran the
> command again and if then asked me to insert it.  What would the
> appropriate command be to read the image file and copy back to
> /dev/od0a?
> 
>         Thanks
>         Jeff
> --
>                            Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                          http://www.cchaven.com
>                      http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Mon Mar 25 19:33:15 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: DEC PROFESSIONAL article needed
References: 
Message-ID: <3C9FCFDB.DDA92469@compsys.to>

>"Zane H. Healy" wrote:

> >> This is needed as part of their work on invalidating Patent 6,185,681
> >> Here is the link about it from /.
> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24557.html
> >> "A previously unknown Californian firm which has obtained a patent for
> >> application-independent file encryption is seeking to enforce
> >> licensing from
> >> other companies in the security industry. "
> Apparently Glenn contacted them, he's the one that provided the rather
> sketch information on the article.

Jerome Fine replies:

It took a while to see which volumes I still have.  I think
I see 1987 to 1990.  If Glenn has a suggestion of which year
it might be and the actual name of the article, that would help.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From edick at idcomm.com  Mon Mar 25 20:06:29 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <003301c1d46a$d82f87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I'm not really familiar with the DS5000, but ISTR that it simply does what I
do in external hardware, i.e. map the lower RAM into code space and the upper
RAM in to data space.  Because it's still the RAM, it's still writeable.  I
know they have some security related operations they do to protect the memory
form external view, but as I've said before, it's not rocket science.  It
involves a hardware trick because they can't simply make it inherent in the
processor, because they then sacrifice the compatibility with other 805x
types.

The 89C420 is quite different from most of the 805x types, first in that a
single-cycle instruction takes only one system clock cycle ( which can be 1x,
2x, or 4x the oscillator frequency up to a maximum of 50 MHz) and there modes
it can operate in that greatly accelerate external memory accesses, again, up
to the 50 MHz limit.

I find this part quite irresistable, first because of its speed, but, more
importantly, because of the high quality of the no-cost tools supporting it at
least generically.  This particular part has two data pointers, like several
of the Dallas 805x extensions, and it has two serial ports, one of which is
capable of supporting a multi-drop network interface.  It has control bits
that emable it automatically to increment/decrement one or both of the data
pointers as part of an indirect read or write, and it has those interesting
external memory interface modes, plus built-in cycle stretching logic, for
increasing speed and compatibility with slower devices than the fast bus would
otherwise support.  Additionally, it has 16KB of on-board FLASH memory, though
that's limited to 33 MHz system clock when if you use it, and it has an extra
1K of SRAM on board that can be used either in code space or in data space.

Frankly, the feature set is staggering.  As all of the 805x family members, it
has separate code and data space, each 64KB in size, but because you can
twiddle the internal ROM size parameters, you can actually have an 80KB code
memory space, witht the 16KB of on-board FLASH memory enabled or disabled,
selectively, or mapped where it can be used, say, as moveable tables.

It's amazing!  It's so flexible, I'm looking for a filesystem to use with it
so it can be its own independent development tool, at least for in-the-field
patching.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 8:34 AM
Subject: RE: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?


> > 805x processors cannot (without external hardware) write to program
memory,
> so any
> > line assembler would be dependant on some (common) hardware tricks to
write
> to
> > program space.
>
> Although I keep some Intel parts around, I prefer the Dallas
> Semiconductor DS5000 familiy, which allows software to partition
> its 64k memory between code space and data space.
>
> However, I'll grant that this qualifies under your definition of
> "hardware tricks", even though it's not quite what you had in mind.
>
> Regards,
> -dq
>
>


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Mar 25 20:09:24 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
References: <3C9F6EF2.2DB62191@jetnet.ab.ca> <3.0.1.32.20020325144502.016bdad0@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD854.F29B4598@jetnet.ab.ca>

Roger Merchberger wrote:

> Not all Basic's are created equal -- I'd still give my left  to be
> able to run a Basic09-like package [for OS-9] on my other machines... That
> was another very powerful Basic.

That was more Pascal like than BASIC. That was one of the few languages
I liked. OS-9 pascal was nice too but the 64k process space really
limited what one could do with any language.
BTW The C compiler for 6089 OS/9 can only have a simple variable in a
switch statement otherwise you get bad code.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From zmerch at 30below.com  Mon Mar 25 20:11:10 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... [long - multiple replies]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.32.20020323112903.00ff6f10@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325211110.011d7390@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com may have mentioned these
words:
>On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
>
>> I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
>> whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
>> because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...
>> which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me, or 2) has
>> obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of ever
>> finding it there...
>
>If you have an ANSI terminal (or a vtXXX) hooked up to it, all you need to
>do is 'set term/ansi'.  If you're using a framebuffer monitor, I think
>you're outa luck, both myself and a guy I know that worked for DEC either
>can't figure it out or have deemed it impossible to do ANSI emulation on
>those things (or anything useful).  My suggestion is to try and get it to
>work with a text-terminal first.

Well, I've rescued a Wyse sumthinorother terminal, unknown condition but
with an RJ-11 interface for the keyboard, and over the winter, I've finally
found an RJ11-based Wyse keyboard... but with the move, I've not had time
to actually test it... let alone I don't have a serial adapter that will
work for it (or at least I'm not sure...) so that's something else I'd have
to do...

However, up until now I didn't have a terminal to use -- I kinda thought
that a 2Mbyte 8-plane grafix framebuffer would have been good enough... :-/

>Second, once you install DecWindows (http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/),
>it should auto-magically start up OR you can start it using a DCL script
>called 'DECW$STARTUP.COM' or something similar.  It should be available
>under the 'SYS$MANAGER:' drive-alias.  The URL above is a GREAT reference
>to (Open)VMS - I've been able to figure out just about any problem with
>those docs and this list. (thanks guys!)

Thanks for the tip... I'll check it out once the system is set up again
(prolly in a couple of months, if I'm lucky...)

>Nice setup, makes my VAXstation 3200 look puny. :(  Just promise to never
>stop running VMS on it.  With people like Gunther running Ultrix or NetBSD
>on it (  sick bastards  ;) the world needs as many VMS
>users as it can get to stay in sync.

Well, I also have one of the latest versions of Ultrix for it, and I had
installed it to see what it was like... and I found it slow - but it did
install *very* easily (unlike my trials & tribulations with VMS...)

============= and ==============

Rumor has it that Carlini, Antonio may have mentioned these words:
>	What terminal do you have connected?
>	If it's one of the VT series, try:
>		$ SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE
>	and don't type anything until the $ prompt
>	comes back

I don't have a terminal, but I'll try this when I get the system set up
again - but I tried everything in the "help set terminal" and "set terminal
xxxxx" most everything, and I couldn't get the framebuffer to recognize
anything useful to get an editor working...

============ and ==================

Rumor has it that Geoff Roberts may have mentioned these words:

>> >> The only classic machine I can't get to print is my MicroVAX 3100/m38 -
>> >and
>> >> that's only because I can't get it to talk TCP/IP... :-( 
>> >
>> >Er, why not?  What version of VMS?

VMS 7.1...

>IIRC, the VMS docs are viewable online at DEC^H^H^HCompaq's web site
>somewhere.

As others has stated, too... but it's tough to take those into the 'loo'
for a little 'light reading...' ;-)

>HELP SET TERMINAL should work, if you use a VT term into the console port.

I tried to do that 'till I was blue in the face (at *least* 16 hours worth)
-- it just doesn't work with a framebuffer... :-(

>Hmmm, I managed to get a Vax 6310 going when I didn't have any idea what VMS
>was,
>so I'm sure you can do this..

Working, yes... working usefully... alas, no. :-(

>EVE or just plain EDIT should work, again from a terminal.    If the graphic
>display working at all?

Sure, the display is working great - until you try to start a text editor.
Then I get something to the effect of (it's been a long time): Unknown
Terminal.

>> 2Meg 8-plane grafix buffer [this is
>> the biotsch that won't config right for the terminal settings, hence no
>> text editors] 17" display, keyboard, mouse [of course]
>
>??  I didn't think the video device need to be configured.  VMS should take
>care of that, and it should 'just work'.

It 'just works' to display text -- lots of it (110+ columns at 58 lines or
somesuch - looks bitchin' on the 17" monitor that it came with!) And it
works great in Ultrix. Just won't let VMS run a damn text editor... :-(

>Are you sure the monitor and graphic buffer are compatible?   Error message?
>Anything on the display?

I pieced together 2 3100's to get the right mix of memory, hard drives,
framebuffer & monitor, but the framebuffer & monitor were a matched pair; I
just raided the second box for mem/HD.

>Shouldn't be THAT hard.....Did you install VMS, or was it there already?

I installed it myself - I think it took 2 tries, but once I got the hang of
it it wasn't unusually difficult... it's trying to make it do something
without a text editor afterwords that's been the PITA...

============== and ====================

Rumor has it that Eric Dittman may have mentioned these words:

>> HELP SET TERMINAL should work, if you use a VT term into the console port.
>
>HELP doesn't require a VTxxx terminal.

Yea, but the "SET TERMINAL" part does... I've used SET TERMINAL this, that
& the other, to no avail...

>> EVE or just plain EDIT should work, again from a terminal.    If the
graphic
>> display working at all?
>
>Use EDIT/EDT in line mode.


Holy-my-goodness... Why not just use EDLIN?
 
I've spent more than 6 years on this list, and all I hear is VAX this...
VMS that... Ya Wanna Real System? VAX is the Only Way... VMS is the *only*
Real OS...

So I *finally* got one for myself - and I have to use a _line_ _editor_???

It was easier getting a full-screen text editor running on my CoCo, for
crimeny sakes... [[and it has a real OS, to... ;-) ]]


The sarcasm is just letting off a little steam - I'm joking, really!

Honestly, the hardware's great - and I'm sure VMS is all it's cracked up to
be, if a little wordy (SET DEFAULT [000000] versus cd / ... thank god I top
out at 110wpm... ;-)  but I really wish it would have been a little easier
to get working without having to hang a termainal off of it...

And to be perfectly honest, at first all I really wanted to do with it:
Write & run BASIC programs! I'd figured *hopefully* the BASIC was much more
powerful than anything in the PeeCee world, and I wanted something faster
than my CoCos...
... And learn VMS, in the process.

>> > [1] Well, OK - to be technical, the thing runs *great* - I just can't
*do*
>> > a frelling thing with it...
>
>Someone is a "Farscape" fan.

I wondered if anyone would pick up on that... ;-)

As always, I've appreciated any & all advice that comes from the list, but
the framebuffer/terminal issues seem like they're a rather tough nut to crack.

To be honest, I think I'm going to mothball the VAX/VMS combo for now, and
try installing VMS on my wife's retired DEC 3000/300 machine. It's only got
64M RAM, but if at least I can get DECWindows to install right off on the
machine, it might give me a better "taste" of VMS to tinker with before I
dive headlong into the VAX again...  But I'm not giving up! ;-)

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Mon Mar 25 20:18:26 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Docs for WellFleet AFN model 1515
Message-ID: 

  I don't think it's quite on-topic, but does anyone have docs for this?
A WellFleet model 1515 Access Feeder Node.  Looks like a modem server or
something.
  Nortel swallowed Baystack which swallowed Wellfleet.... Nothing online
for documentation.
  Main question is:  The port marked "Console" is a DE9 *female*.  No
keyboard port, so I expect it's a serial port, but I've never seen a
female DE9 serial.  Will a gender swap work, or do I need pinout
adapter?
  When your friends find out you collect "junk", they bring you the most
amazing stuff.

	Doc


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 21:33:22 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net>
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
 <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
 <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net>
Message-ID: 

>Let me know how connecting the PM 1.3gb goes.  Getting the Jaz up 
>was "fun". I've passed on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it 
>works, it might be fun getting one next time.  I have just installed 
>a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my #1 cube.  I'm going to try burning 
>a few "coasters" on the cube.  I'll let you know how it goes.

	I plugged the Pinnacle Sierra up to the Cube and it mounted 
both DOS and Mac formatted disk without a problem and I was able to 
read files and such off of them easily.  So far attampts at 
initializing them have failed though, even using 'disk -i /dev/rsd1a' 
to try to initialize the raw device.  The system retrieves all of the 
info but errors out, making the disk unreadable.  All of my 3M disks 
are 512bytes/sector vice 1024...could this be a problem for NeXTstep? 
I didn't have to modify the disktab file for it to recognize the 
drive/media.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Mon Mar 25 21:41:54 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... [long - multiple replies]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325211110.011d7390@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:

> Rumor has it that pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com may have mentioned these
> words:
> >On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
> >
> >> I've tried 'help' but there are a lot of things that *just* *won't* *run*
> >> whatsoever, including [but not limited to] every text editor I've tried,
> >> because I can't figure out how to get the terminal screen configured...
> >> which (of course, with my luck) 'help' either 1) doesn't tell me, or 2) has
> >> obfuscated it *so* badly that I won't have a chance in Hades of ever
> >> finding it there...
> >
> >If you have an ANSI terminal (or a vtXXX) hooked up to it, all you need to
> >do is 'set term/ansi'.  If you're using a framebuffer monitor, I think
> >you're outa luck, both myself and a guy I know that worked for DEC either
> >can't figure it out or have deemed it impossible to do ANSI emulation on
> >those things (or anything useful).  My suggestion is to try and get it to
> >work with a text-terminal first.
>
> Well, I've rescued a Wyse sumthinorother terminal, unknown condition but
> with an RJ-11 interface for the keyboard, and over the winter, I've finally
> found an RJ11-based Wyse keyboard... but with the move, I've not had time
> to actually test it... let alone I don't have a serial adapter that will
> work for it (or at least I'm not sure...) so that's something else I'd have
> to do...

Of course, you could also just use a PeeCee (or perhaps a classic box)
with an ANSI compatible terminal emulator- minicom for *nix or CRT for
windows works pretty well.  Once you get decwindows up and running, you
can start 'terminal sessions' (like xterms) that'll do the terminal
emulation so you can use a full-screen editor.

Also there are other DECW$*.COM files that go with decwindows in
SYS$MANAGER: that may be helpful.

-- Pat


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Mon Mar 25 22:20:40 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
In-Reply-To: <003301c1d46a$d82f87a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

	On the subject of dual data pointers, Dallas did it wrong.  I talked to the
engineers when they were designing this part, and ran the idea past them,
and it turned out they couldn't do it because it wasn't thought of
internally, even though I was willing to sign off all rights to it.

	In the DPTR select register, the low order bit specifies which of the DPTRs
is used for MOVX, MOVC, and INC.  However, if you try to integrate the
second data pointer into an existing code base that uses interrupts, you're
screwed.  You have to modify all the interrupt routines that use the DPTR to
PUSH DPS, mov DPS,#0 (or 1), then POP DPS at the end.  This wastes
instructions.

	Instead, the DPS register should have caused the DPH0/DPH1 and DPL0/DPL1
pairs to be swapped.  Most code has little care which DPx0/DPx1 pair is
being used.  Typically, DPTR0 is used as a source register, and DPTR1 as a
destination register, and the DPS is incremented between the load and store
instructions.  You don't care that DPH0 is at 80h and DPH1 at at 83h (or
where it's actually at, book isn't handy).

	With my method, existing interrupt code wouldn't break, because when it
does the PUSH DPH, the DPH for the current DPTR would be pushed, because the
current DPTR would always be mapped into 80h/81h, as if you had one DPTR.

	This allows new code to be written to use the dual data pointers, while the
existing object code (as in the case of linkable libraries from 3rd party
vendors) won't break.

	But no, they screwed that up royally.

	--John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 21:06 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
>
>
> I'm not really familiar with the DS5000, but ISTR that it simply
> does what I
> do in external hardware, i.e. map the lower RAM into code space
> and the upper
> RAM in to data space.  Because it's still the RAM, it's still
> writeable.  I
> know they have some security related operations they do to
> protect the memory
> form external view, but as I've said before, it's not rocket science.  It
> involves a hardware trick because they can't simply make it
> inherent in the
> processor, because they then sacrifice the compatibility with other 805x
> types.
>
> The 89C420 is quite different from most of the 805x types, first in that a
> single-cycle instruction takes only one system clock cycle (
> which can be 1x,
> 2x, or 4x the oscillator frequency up to a maximum of 50 MHz) and
> there modes
> it can operate in that greatly accelerate external memory
> accesses, again, up
> to the 50 MHz limit.
>
> I find this part quite irresistable, first because of its speed, but, more
> importantly, because of the high quality of the no-cost tools
> supporting it at
> least generically.  This particular part has two data pointers,
> like several
> of the Dallas 805x extensions, and it has two serial ports, one
> of which is
> capable of supporting a multi-drop network interface.  It has control bits
> that emable it automatically to increment/decrement one or both
> of the data
> pointers as part of an indirect read or write, and it has those
> interesting
> external memory interface modes, plus built-in cycle stretching logic, for
> increasing speed and compatibility with slower devices than the
> fast bus would
> otherwise support.  Additionally, it has 16KB of on-board FLASH
> memory, though
> that's limited to 33 MHz system clock when if you use it, and it
> has an extra
> 1K of SRAM on board that can be used either in code space or in
> data space.
>
> Frankly, the feature set is staggering.  As all of the 805x
> family members, it
> has separate code and data space, each 64KB in size, but because you can
> twiddle the internal ROM size parameters, you can actually have
> an 80KB code
> memory space, witht the 16KB of on-board FLASH memory enabled or disabled,
> selectively, or mapped where it can be used, say, as moveable tables.
>
> It's amazing!  It's so flexible, I'm looking for a filesystem to
> use with it
> so it can be its own independent development tool, at least for
> in-the-field
> patching.
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douglas Quebbeman" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 8:34 AM
> Subject: RE: Source code for 805x line-by-line assembler?
>
>
> > > 805x processors cannot (without external hardware) write to program
> memory,
> > so any
> > > line assembler would be dependant on some (common) hardware tricks to
> write
> > to
> > > program space.
> >
> > Although I keep some Intel parts around, I prefer the Dallas
> > Semiconductor DS5000 familiy, which allows software to partition
> > its 64k memory between code space and data space.
> >
> > However, I'll grant that this qualifies under your definition of
> > "hardware tricks", even though it's not quite what you had in mind.
> >
> > Regards,
> > -dq
> >
> >
>


From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 22:24:55 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
	 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
	 <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net> 
Message-ID: <3C9FF817.882FB990@texoma.net>

I think you will have to write a disktab entry for the MO drive.  I had
to add one for the Jaz.  NS3.3 is pretty good at determining disk
geometry if the drive supports the sense command.  Since PM bit the
dust, I'm not sure if there is much documentation out there about the MO
drive.  Also keep in mind that the NeXT cube SCSI implementation is
pretty primitive.  

Ok, I looked on the Pinnacle Micro site.  It's up intermittently these
days.  They went bankrupt in 2000. On the PM site at :
http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/faq/unix.htm it states that NeXT supports
both 512 and 1024 sector formats, so I don't think that that's the
problem.  Also on the Pinnacle Micro site at:
http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/guides.htm#unixmo there wasn't a mention of
NeXT in the Unix pages.

One question, does the MO drive show up in the Workspace browser when
you insert a disk?  I can't format a Jaz cart from the command prompt
with disk, but I can by selecting it in the GUi and then selecting Disk
Initialize....I don't know why.

If none of this makes sense, forgive me.  I had a root canal and 8
fillings done this afternoon and I'm still a little punchy.

James

Jeff Hellige wrote:
> 
> >Let me know how connecting the PM 1.3gb goes.  Getting the Jaz up
> >was "fun". I've passed on several PM 1.3gb drives before, if it
> >works, it might be fun getting one next time.  I have just installed
> >a Pinnacle Micro CDR drive on my #1 cube.  I'm going to try burning
> >a few "coasters" on the cube.  I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
>         I plugged the Pinnacle Sierra up to the Cube and it mounted
> both DOS and Mac formatted disk without a problem and I was able to
> read files and such off of them easily.  So far attampts at
> initializing them have failed though, even using 'disk -i /dev/rsd1a'
> to try to initialize the raw device.  The system retrieves all of the
> info but errors out, making the disk unreadable.  All of my 3M disks
> are 512bytes/sector vice 1024...could this be a problem for NeXTstep?
> I didn't have to modify the disktab file for it to recognize the
> drive/media.
> 
>         Jeff
> --
>                            Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                          http://www.cchaven.com
>                      http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From jrice at texoma.net  Mon Mar 25 22:34:35 2002
From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>
	 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>
	 <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
	 <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net> 
Message-ID: <3C9FFA5B.8783540B@texoma.net>

Jeff check this out:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=32udil%2413l%40news.doit.wisc.edu&rnum=9&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpinnacle%2Bmicro%2Bgroup:comp.sys.next.hardware%26hl%3Den%26selm%3D32udil%252413l%2540news.doit.wisc.edu%26rnum%3D9

It seems that they had to write a disktab entry
This is a quote:


I was unable to get the cartridges to format with
ty=removable_rw_optical but  
they did work with ty=removable_rw_scsi.  I haven't figured that out
yet.  The  
only problem with this is that they appear with an ugly SCSI icon
instead of  
the nice optical icon on automount in the workspcae.  I fixed this by
going  
into /usr/lib/NextStep/Workspace.app/WM.app, renamed scsi.tiff to
OLDscsi.tiff  
and openScsi.tiff to OLDopenScsi.tiff, and then copied optical.tiff and  
openOptical.tiff to scsi.tiff and openScsi.tiff.  So now autoMount disks
of  
type removable_rw_scsi appear on the Workspace with the optical tiff.

I've tuned the disktab for space optimization instead of speed since we  
primarily use our optical more like a WORM so there should be very
little  
fragmentation.

The disktab works with the Workspace auto-initialize routines, except
that it  
can't determine whether the cartridge is 512byte/sector or
1024byte/sector.   
I've set our's up to auto-initialize properly for the 1024byte/sector
disks,  
and require a command line format for 512byte/sector disks with:
	disk -t PINNACLEOHD-1200 -i /dev/rsd1a

Add these line to /etc/disktab after the cannon OM entry


# Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive
# ECMA 512 byte/sector media
# Disktab generated by Jessica Hayden from SunOS /etc/format.dat entry
#  and NextAnswers document 1533.
PINNACLEOHD-1200|Pinnacle Sierra 1.2GB OHD:\
:ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#5359:nt#7:ns#31:ss#512:rm#3600:\
	:fp#320:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\
	:os=sdmach:z0#64:z1#192:ro=a:\
	:pa#0:sa#1162903:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#32:da#4096:ra#1:oa=space:\
		:ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa:

# Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive
# ECMA 1024 byte/sector media
# Disktab generated by Kelley Wittmeyer & Jessica Hayden from 
#  an HPUX /etc/disktab entry and NextAnswers doc 1533
PINNACLEOHD-1300|Pinnacle Sierra 1.3GB OHD:\
:ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#1171:nt#32:ns#17:ss#1024:rm#3600:\
	:fp#160:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\
	:os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:ro=a:\
	:pa#0:sa#636608:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#8:da#4096:ra#0:oa=space:\
		:ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa:

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 25 22:46:25 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
Message-ID: <20020326044754.KRRM7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Hans Franke 

> Well, this would be a neat professional ZX81 setup - just you miss the
> whole fun of getting the real minimalistic ZX81. One _can_ do usefull
> stuff with just one or two KBytes of RAM. one has a real lot of fun
> by just playing around with this little plasic box in front of an old
> TV set.

Hans, I agree with you 100 percent.  This is the purpose the ZX81 was
designed for: teaching people how to have fun getting the most out of the
least!
 
> I'd suggest an out of the box ZX81 (or Timex 1000) to start with, and
> realy trying to play with only one K ... next step could be the internal
> expansion to whooping TWO K - and oh boy, programmers dreams will come
> thru.

Yeah, I remember the first time I could write a BASIC program with more
than 40 lines of code -- wow!

> I still think tha'ts the most fun, haggling with tight resources).

Also true for me.  It's still a thrill to go over a machine code or
assembly language program and be able to trim out 20 bytes!
 
> A professional system, like Glen tells is quite nice, but you need
> also some more knowledge about the pitfalls of a ZX. Start of with
> the fun of a simple system, and if you're a late victim of the ZX
> infection, then you'll soon expand into the ZX96 dimension.

I think this is very good advice.
 
> (Not a ZX fan, but I realy like to dig out a ZX80 or 81 from time to
> time just to play around with the most minimalistic _full_ system ever)

This is the best description of the ZX81 I've ever encountered!

Keep on ZXin'!

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 25 22:59:19 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020326050046.WABR8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Hans Franke 

> I think Pete is right here. there was a wire you had to add if
> you used a 4118 (or 6116) instead of the 2114s. I have to grab
> the kit documentation to veryfy this.

After checking the schematic I find that there is a link.  "Use L1 for 1K
RAM, use L2 for 2K RAM."  This tells me that when a 4118 or two 2114s are
used (or a 6116???) there is no need to change the jumper -- it's only
required when using a 2KB 2016 or equivalent.
 
> Digging thru my ZX Stuff I found an _original_ "ZX81 2-K RAM" Kit *G*
 
> Well, it is at least original over here, since it has been sold by ISS,
> the official distributor of ZX81 stuff in Germany.

Wow -- did you ever use the kit?

> The kit konsists of a 24 pin socket and a NEC D446C-2 RAM

I'd guess this is the same as the 2016, and that you need to change the
link to L2 for it to work.

Glen
0/0


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Mon Mar 25 23:15:47 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
References: <20020326044754.KRRM7463.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3CA00403.D66F992F@jetnet.ab.ca>

Glen Goodwin wrote:
> > I still think tha'ts the most fun, haggling with tight resources).
> 
> Also true for me.  It's still a thrill to go over a machine code or
> assembly language program and be able to trim out 20 bytes!
>

While the ZX-81 was not my favorite machine it has advantage of users
understanding hardware and software more so than today. I still think
computer designers need to program in assembly every so often. The
BloatMaster 3000 super chip is not what people need but rather what
marketing is trying to brainwash you with. 

> > (Not a ZX fan, but I realy like to dig out a ZX80 or 81 from time to
> > time just to play around with the most minimalistic _full_ system ever)
> 
> This is the best description of the ZX81 I've ever encountered!

I think the best for hardware use ( but not cost ) was a 4k PDP8 and
TTY.
That machine has some very tight code at the cost of not being able to
expand
over 4 of memory with out bank switching of code/data.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 25 23:28:28 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <20020326061557.QXEA8033.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Christopher Smith 

If anyone has a copy of Turbo BASIC with manual I'd like to buy one . . .

> For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
> incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)

No, it was incredible.  Removing the constraints of using line numbers was
a huge improvement on its own.  Allowing variables local to a function or
procedure was a nice bonus as well.  

> Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.

Turbo BASIC also has an interpretive mode.

Glen
0/0

 


From tlindner at ix.netcom.com  Tue Mar 26 00:02:16 2002
From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: 6800 System - Schematic Needed
Message-ID: <1f9mfru.tk3hk15xzs38M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>

I saw this over on comp.sys.m6809. I was hopng someone here could help
this guy.

Begin message:

> From: Mike 
>
> I know this is a long shot but I have a nice 6800 based single board
> computer, with keypad and LED display.  It is mounted in a 2 slot
> chassis that has a smoked glass cover and wood sidings.
> 
> It's very nice and works well.  Problem is that I don't have a
> schematic and don't know how the memory and I/O are mapped.  It also
> has a couple of 16 pin devices that are not installed.  I guess I can
> buz it out and figure out what is there but that is a massive amount
> of work
> 
> The system is marked: ASCI u68, System-X.  
> 
> I have tried an internet search but can't find anything on it.  I
> think it was used in a class for learning microprocessors back in late
> 70s.
> 
> Anyone have any leads on were I might find a schematic?
> 
> photos a: http://www.msdsite.com/comp/u68.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Remove 555 from email to email an answer.


-- 
tim lindner                    tlindner@watermarkpress.com

"Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android

From vcf at siconic.com  Tue Mar 26 02:26:45 2002
From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: 


Can someone help Hans-Werner?

--

From: Hans-Werner.Ruch@t-online.de (Hans-Werner Ruch)
Subject: Intel iUP-201: Can you please help me?
Date sent: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:29:59 +0100

Hi,


I recently got one of the ancient Intel Eprom Programmer iUP-201
together with a FAST27/K adaptor and RS-232 cable. It still works fine
(operated manually). Now my idea is to connect the iUP to a PC to
transfer data to/from it, but unfortunately I haven't got any
documentation and so I neither know the necessary RS-232 parameters
(baudrate, kind of parity, no. of stop bits), nor the commands
(strings/bytes?) the iUP awaits.
If you have some information or documentation on this subject, I would
really appreciate if you could send it to me. Hints are also welcome.
-- 

Regards,
Hans-Werner Ruch
__________________________________________________
Drlinger Str. 5 b
82229 Seefeld
Germany
Fax +49-(0)8152-980027

--

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Tue Mar 26 02:31:37 2002
From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020326192921.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>

At 10:34 AM 25/03/2002 -0800, Al Kossow wrote:

> > Just a note that  lists two copies of
> > Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's
> > cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
>
>I have one up for $49 with no bids right now.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011505056

US$49! That's nearly $100 Aussie dollars.

I know it's a good book (I have two copies, one of which I've read, the 
other I just acquired and has never been opened) but I wouldn't pay $100 
for it. In fact, I don't recall paying for either copy, they were just 
"Huw, have this book".

Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
                      | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
                      | air, the sky would be painted green" 


From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Tue Mar 26 02:34:46 2002
From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8C7@jeffserver.tegjeff.
 com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020326193242.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>

At 04:05 PM 25/03/2002 -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> > For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an
> > incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> > under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)
> >
> > I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.
> >
> > Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.
>
>While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
>of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
>I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
>I should look at the source...

It depends on which DEC BASIC. VAX BASIC was both an interpreter and a 
compiler. I tended to use the compiler - earned a living once programming a 
student records system in VAX BASIC, FMS and Indexed Sequential files.

Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
                      | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
                      | air, the sky would be painted green" 


From mhstein at canada.com  Tue Mar 26 03:01:55 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Heathkit et-3100
Message-ID: <01C1D47A.F9E4BAE0@mse-d03>

http://bama.sbc.edu/heath.htm
or
http://www.circuitarchive.co.uk/heath.htm

What else do ya need? I have one of these somewhere;
not much to it...

mike

-----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:36:33 +0200
From: John Franklin 
Subject: Heathkit et-3100

can anyone help.  I am looking for manuals, diagrams etc  or  any info on
the Heathkit ET-3100  


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 04:12:50 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <3C9FF817.882FB990@texoma.net>
References: <3C9B8AEB.8691.53F7D9FD@localhost>	
 <02Mar25.125158est.119384@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>	
 <3C9F67C2.9040101@texoma.net>	
 <02Mar25.135620est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>	
 <3C9F7399.7060909@texoma.net> 
 <3C9FF817.882FB990@texoma.net>
Message-ID: 

>I think you will have to write a disktab entry for the MO drive.  I had
>to add one for the Jaz.  NS3.3 is pretty good at determining disk
>geometry if the drive supports the sense command.  Since PM bit the
>dust, I'm not sure if there is much documentation out there about the MO
>drive.  Also keep in mind that the NeXT cube SCSI implementation is
>pretty primitive.

	Thanks James...I'll try the disktab from your other message.

>One question, does the MO drive show up in the Workspace browser when
>you insert a disk?  I can't format a Jaz cart from the command prompt
>with disk, but I can by selecting it in the GUi and then selecting Disk
>Initialize....I don't know why.

	Yes, the DOS and Mac formatted disks mount automatically when 
the disks are inserted and on one it doesn't recognize it asks if I 
want to initialize.  It fails initialization from the Workspace just 
as it did from the shell.  I wasn't sure if NS supported 
512bytes/sector or not on the MO.

	I'll let you know how the disktab works.
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Tue Mar 26 05:55:17 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <3CA00403.D66F992F@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>

> > > I still think tha'ts the most fun, haggling with tight resources).
> > Also true for me.  It's still a thrill to go over a machine code or
> > assembly language program and be able to trim out 20 bytes!
> While the ZX-81 was not my favorite machine it has advantage of users
> understanding hardware and software more so than today. I still think
> computer designers need to program in assembly every so often. The
> BloatMaster 3000 super chip is not what people need but rather what
> marketing is trying to brainwash you with.

In fact, when we talk about the ZX 81, Almost everything is just software.
It took me some time to figure out the 'Display File' (that is what other
computer would call a screen buffer). This construction reminded me of
1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
micro code engine itself.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Tue Mar 26 06:19:13 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020326050046.WABR8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3CA07551.11865.672B755F@localhost>


> > I think Pete is right here. there was a wire you had to add if
> > you used a 4118 (or 6116) instead of the 2114s. I have to grab
> > the kit documentation to veryfy this.

> After checking the schematic I find that there is a link.  "Use L1 for 1K
> RAM, use L2 for 2K RAM."  This tells me that when a 4118 or two 2114s are
> used (or a 6116???) there is no need to change the jumper -- it's only
> required when using a 2KB 2016 or equivalent.

Well, my instruction reads that L1 has to be set as soon as you have
a 4118 (or the otehr way around, it is only to be left out if you have
two 2114). Please check also the scanned assembly instructions at the
ZX Team pages (English Version)
http://home.t-online.de/home/p.liebert/f_zx81_e.htm

go to page 3, read the IMPORTANT paragraph

> > Digging thru my ZX Stuff I found an _original_ "ZX81 2-K RAM" Kit *G*
> > Well, it is at least original over here, since it has been sold by ISS,
> > the official distributor of ZX81 stuff in Germany.
> Wow -- did you ever use the kit?

Na, of course not - in fact, I got it at a time when the ZX was already
history to me ... BTW, have I already told the story that I build a
casher out of a ZX81 ?

> > The kit konsists of a 24 pin socket and a NEC D446C-2 RAM
> I'd guess this is the same as the 2016, and that you need to change the
> link to L2 for it to work.

Jep. As before, as soon as you have a single chip memory, you
needed the link.

Gruss
H.



--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Tue Mar 26 06:31:56 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3C9F737B.11700.633C4C4E@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 25, 2 06:59:07 pm
Message-ID: <3CA0784C.14979.67371CD5@localhost>

> > Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.
> > A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
> > good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as

> That does not make it a 'real keyboard'. In fact the QL keyboard I used 
> was pretty unpleasant. My QL was obtained surplus as the bottom half only 
> (no keyboard), so I kludged on a matrix of switches from my junk box. 
> It's one of the few QLs with useable keys IMHO...

maybe, still you could work quite well.

> > much as the first Mac, but expandable to 640 or 900) and two tape
> > drives with ~100K each.

> > Furthermore: Serial Interface, Joystick Ports and a full figured
> > Network. As cream ontop of the cake a complete application suite

> You forgot to mention that the tape drives were very unreliable if used 
> continuousely (those endless loop tapes would stretch and/or jam).

Right, but you could manufacture your own - using regular music
cassette tape of acceptrable quality did work quite well.

> The 
> serial ports were broken as designed (I've looked at the schematics. The 
> RxD lines from the 2 ports are just ORed together -- the external devices 
> _must_ observe the handshake lines!), and

Which every _real_ device should do. That's what the handshake
lines are for. Always going for the least common ground isn't
the way to do. 

> that the network was similar to the kludge used on the Spectrum.

Jep, but it worked. it is always easy to say XYZ is crap, not
as good as something else at 100 times the price. Remember, in
1983 Networkcable, for a 'real' networ allone cost you more than
a QL

> The QL was, alas, as typical Sinclair design. Built to a price, and it 
> shows. It may have been reasonable to do that for a home computer where 
> people couldn't/wouldn't afford anything better, but not for something 
> that claimed to be a business computer.

At this scale, a Mac of the same time would also not qualify as
a business system ... not even cursor keys nor a numpad nor any
kind of interfase ... etc. pp.

> > with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.
> > And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower

> It sold for \pounds 399 in the UK.

At the beginning ? I'm just asking, because I don't remember the
price on the island. 

> My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk 
> drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold 
> rather better in the UK.

Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.
Anyway, history.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From etienne.stanus at ieee.org  Tue Mar 26 07:08:09 2002
From: etienne.stanus at ieee.org (Etienne Stanus)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <3CA07551.11865.672B755F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA072B9.526935E4@ieee.org>

Hi,


I have a old Vax computer with an Emulex UC08 in it, but I  dont'have any
manuel, any UC08 original scsi cables, neither the pin out of the Emuler UC08
front connector

Can anybody help ?

Thanks

Etienne Stanus
Multitel ASBL
1 Avenue Nicolas Copernic
7000 Mons
Belgium
etienne.stanus@ieee.org


From Richard.Sandwell at roebry.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 07:30:59 2002
From: Richard.Sandwell at roebry.co.uk (Richard.Sandwell@roebry.co.uk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: 


>> It sold for \pounds 399 in the UK.

Yup, paid my money ...and waited...and waited! Worth it in the end.


> My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk
> drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold
> rather better in the UK.

>Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
>external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.
>Anyway, history.

Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?
Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
professional market perhaps?

For those of us that were serious about computing, that didn't have access
to the kind of money a PC or Mac cost, the QL was a godsend. 68k assembler
was a bit of a jmp after Z80 though!

//Rich


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 07:31:28 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <20020326050046.WABR8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <001d01c1d4ca$88c3cc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

If there's a configuration for the 2016, that should work OK with the 6116,
shouldn't it?  It's well to keep in mind that it doesn't matter WHICH address
line goes to which address pin on the SRAM, only that it goes to an address
pin.  Of course, some designs use addresses as chip selects, since they don't
use all of the address space.  In those cases it's important to pay attention
to the association between addresses and the memory map.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> > From: Hans Franke 
>
> > I think Pete is right here. there was a wire you had to add if
> > you used a 4118 (or 6116) instead of the 2114s. I have to grab
> > the kit documentation to veryfy this.
>
> After checking the schematic I find that there is a link.  "Use L1 for 1K
> RAM, use L2 for 2K RAM."  This tells me that when a 4118 or two 2114s are
> used (or a 6116???) there is no need to change the jumper -- it's only
> required when using a 2KB 2016 or equivalent.
>
> > Digging thru my ZX Stuff I found an _original_ "ZX81 2-K RAM" Kit *G*
>
> > Well, it is at least original over here, since it has been sold by ISS,
> > the official distributor of ZX81 stuff in Germany.
>
> Wow -- did you ever use the kit?
>
> > The kit konsists of a 24 pin socket and a NEC D446C-2 RAM
>
> I'd guess this is the same as the 2016, and that you need to change the
> link to L2 for it to work.
>
> Glen
> 0/0
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 07:36:00 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: 6800 System - Schematic Needed
References: <1f9mfru.tk3hk15xzs38M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <002701c1d4cb$2b2cf220$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

An 8-bit system can't be that much of a problem, unless those 16-pin devices
you mention are PROMs of some sort, used as decoders or the like.  He may
think it's a massive amount of work, but it's really not, since there are only
16 bits of address and knowing the device type of the memories will easily
cover 10 or 12 of them, leaving only a couple of decoders or the equivalent in
SSI.  I'd be surprised if it takes more than an hour to buzz out the memory
map.  There is no I/O space, so that's in the memory map also.

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "tim lindner" 
To: "Classic Computers" 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:02 PM
Subject: 6800 System - Schematic Needed


> I saw this over on comp.sys.m6809. I was hopng someone here could help
> this guy.
>
> Begin message:
>
> > From: Mike 
> >
> > I know this is a long shot but I have a nice 6800 based single board
> > computer, with keypad and LED display.  It is mounted in a 2 slot
> > chassis that has a smoked glass cover and wood sidings.
> >
> > It's very nice and works well.  Problem is that I don't have a
> > schematic and don't know how the memory and I/O are mapped.  It also
> > has a couple of 16 pin devices that are not installed.  I guess I can
> > buz it out and figure out what is there but that is a massive amount
> > of work
> >
> > The system is marked: ASCI u68, System-X.
> >
> > I have tried an internet search but can't find anything on it.  I
> > think it was used in a class for learning microprocessors back in late
> > 70s.
> >
> > Anyone have any leads on were I might find a schematic?
> >
> > photos a: http://www.msdsite.com/comp/u68.html
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Remove 555 from email to email an answer.
>
>
> --
> tim lindner                    tlindner@watermarkpress.com
>
> "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 07:37:39 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
References: <20020326061557.QXEA8033.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <002f01c1d4cb$660a86a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Well, I may be able to help you out here.  I've got TB and a book or two.

Dick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))


> > From: Christopher Smith 
> 
> If anyone has a copy of Turbo BASIC with manual I'd like to buy one . . .
> 
> > For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
> > incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> > under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)
> 
> No, it was incredible.  Removing the constraints of using line numbers was
> a huge improvement on its own.  Allowing variables local to a function or
> procedure was a nice bonus as well.  
> 
> > Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.
> 
> Turbo BASIC also has an interpretive mode.
> 
> Glen
> 0/0
> 
>  
> 
> 


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Tue Mar 26 07:59:08 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3CA08CBC.13268.6786F15B@localhost>

 > > My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk
> > drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold
> > rather better in the UK.
> >Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
> >external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.
> >Anyway, history.

> Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?
> Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
> professional market perhaps?

I guess today this would be called 'embedded market'. A OPD is still
a top issue on my want list.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 08:28:26 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <02Mar27.080325est.119444@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

>You can buy the latest incarnation of Turbo BASIC, called Power
>Basic.  It's pretty neat.

	I've been using PowerBasic since '90 or so and really like 
it.  The later versions include things that the first version, which 
is what I have, did not.  I've written fairly complex 
database/accounting packages with it and those packages were roughly 
1/7 the size of a similar package written using the application 
generator in Foxbase or similar.

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 08:52:29 2002
From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: RSX-11 Documentation available
Message-ID: <000301c1d4d5$dad50280$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk>

I've been made aware of a set of RSX-11 documentation that's being
disposed of in the building where I work. This wil be disposed at the
end of Wednesday 27th, so if anyone wants it, please mail me directly
now! I've got no where to store this long-term, but can hold it for a
week or two. There will be no cost for this, but you will have to pay
for shipping (I can FedEx internationally), or collect from Chester, UK.
There are 9 rather large 3-ring binders, so shipping to the US may be
prohibitive. 

---
Tim Myers,
Protasis UK Ltd.,
Cheshire Innovation Park,
PO Box 1,
Chester,
CH1 3SH.
Tel : +44 151 355 4590
DDI :  +44 151 355 4931
Fax : +44 151 355 4942






From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 09:13:39 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: 6800 System - Schematic Needed
In-Reply-To: <1f9mfru.tk3hk15xzs38M%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

FWIW  

Mike,

  FWIW I saw a bunch of the ASCI system for sale at an auction at Brevard Community College in Titusville Fla about 1 1/2 years ago. There were also several HP 5036s and I spent all of my money on them so I didn't get any of the ASCI systems. But several people were snapping them up to put them on E-bay so you may be able to find one there and that may lead you to someone that has docs for them.  IIRC there were ASCI CPU boxs, some boxs with cassettte tape drives and some kind of expansion chassis for them at the auction.

    Joe



At 10:02 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I saw this over on comp.sys.m6809. I was hopng someone here could help
>this guy.
>
>Begin message:
>
>> From: Mike 
>>
>> I know this is a long shot but I have a nice 6800 based single board
>> computer, with keypad and LED display.  It is mounted in a 2 slot
>> chassis that has a smoked glass cover and wood sidings.
>> 
>> It's very nice and works well.  Problem is that I don't have a
>> schematic and don't know how the memory and I/O are mapped.  It also
>> has a couple of 16 pin devices that are not installed.  I guess I can
>> buz it out and figure out what is there but that is a massive amount
>> of work
>> 
>> The system is marked: ASCI u68, System-X.  
>> 
>> I have tried an internet search but can't find anything on it.  I
>> think it was used in a class for learning microprocessors back in late
>> 70s.
>> 
>> Anyone have any leads on were I might find a schematic?
>> 
>> photos a: http://www.msdsite.com/comp/u68.html
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Remove 555 from email to email an answer.
>
>
>-- 
>tim lindner                    tlindner@watermarkpress.com
>
>"Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 09:31:27 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <00fe01c1d45c$391bfda0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020325175727.0080c200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020326103127.0080bc10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Heinz,

   Look at .  Where were all you buyers then?

    Joe

At 07:21 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been looking for this book for a while-
>the last few copies on ebay all went over 50$,
>so Al's price isn't out of order.. it seems to
>be the going rate. It is THE DEC book to have ;)
>
>cheers,
>Heinz
>
>>    You should check E-bay more often. My copy of that book sold for $16!
>:-(
>>
>>     Joe
>> At 09:45 AM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>> >Just a note that  lists two copies of
>> >Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57.
>That's
>> >cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
>> >
>> >--Chuck
>
>
>


From geneb at deltasoft.com  Tue Mar 26 10:07:43 2002
From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <20020326061557.QXEA8033.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: 

You can buy the latest incarnation of Turbo BASIC, called Power
Basic.  It's pretty neat.

g.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote:

> > From: Christopher Smith 
> 
> If anyone has a copy of Turbo BASIC with manual I'd like to buy one . . .
> 
> > For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
> > incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> > under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)
> 
> No, it was incredible.  Removing the constraints of using line numbers was
> a huge improvement on its own.  Allowing variables local to a function or
> procedure was a nice bonus as well.  
> 
> > Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.
> 
> Turbo BASIC also has an interpretive mode.
> 
> Glen
> 0/0
> 
>  
> 

-- 
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.



From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 10:26:30 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: SWTPc 6800 update
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <02Mar26.124222est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>

	UPS delivered my 6800 and the MF-68 floppy disk system today. 
After spending almost a week floating around UPS trucks in Washington 
state the documentation and terminal kit are finally on their way 
east again as well.  The dirt/spider buildup after 20 years on a 
shelf is considerable, so it's going to take quite a bit of cleaning 
up but it's wholly intact and in pretty nice shape.  One nice thing 
is that it has an EPROM progammer board installed, as well as 20k 
RAM, serial card, CPU card, and disk controller.  Overall, a pretty 
nice setup..

	Jeff
-- 
                      Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                http://www.cchaven.com
                  http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Tue Mar 26 10:58:47 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:55:17 CET
References: <3CA00403.D66F992F@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020326175847.I295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:

> This construction reminded me of
> 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
> code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
> micro code engine itself.
And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
oscilloscopes...

Hmmm. I think I should take this thing to the VCFE along with my
VAXen...
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From Innfogra at aol.com  Tue Mar 26 11:41:41 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
Message-ID: <92.235d6f55.29d20cd5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/02 9:20:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de writes:


> And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> oscilloscopes...
> 

What model of Tek terminal? 

Paxton 
Astoria, OR
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020326/3185930e/attachment.html
From emu at ecubics.com  Tue Mar 26 12:05:41 2002
From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA0B875.57DFF5E0@ecubics.com>

Hi all,

Just found a board with few am7960 on them.
Anybody knows what that is ?
Datasheet ?

It "smells" like an ethernet controller, but didn't find anything
on the net about it. (to old I guess)

cheers & thanks

From jmkatcher at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 12:05:42 2002
From: jmkatcher at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Katcher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Looking for Fujitsu/HAL GP7000F memory
Message-ID: <20020326180542.76406.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>

Obsolete SPARC/Solaris server purchased on eBay. 
Takes some sort of SIMM/DIMM but not specified
anywhere.  I know it's not exactly a historic machine,
though it is awfully nice as a home computer.

Is anyone familiar with these beasts?

Many thanks in advance,

Jeff Katcher
jmkatcher@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 12:19:19 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA0BBA7.4AECCCEF@gifford.co.uk>


Richard.Sandwell@roebry.co.uk wrote:
> Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?
> Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
> professional market perhaps?

The ICL One Per Desk!  The name tells you just how many they thought
they'd sell.  I have one, bought at a junk shop in Bath, and here's
a (not very good) photo:

   http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/opd.htm

Note the phone handset on the left-hand side and the two phone cords.

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 26 12:19:29 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8EA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > This construction reminded me of
> > 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
> > code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
> > micro code engine itself.
>
> And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> oscilloscopes...

This was Tek's "Storage Tube" technology... or something like that.

We had a o-scope at school which used it... never got to work
with the computer displays that had it, tho...

-dq

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Tue Mar 26 12:32:14 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <92.235d6f55.29d20cd5@aol.com>; from Innfogra@aol.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 18:41:41 CET
References: <92.235d6f55.29d20cd5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020326193214.O295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.26 18:41 Innfogra@aol.com wrote:

> What model of Tek terminal? 
Don't know. 4somthing? It is in my "off site storage expansion", read my
parents house. It has a rotary witch on the back to select the BAUD rate
(max. 4800) and upper case letters only. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 26 12:35:35 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: My VMS Conundrums... [long - multiple replies]
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B88@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com]

> Then I get something to the effect of (it's been a long time): Unknown
> Terminal.

Well, a:

SET TERM/DEV=vt100 (I think)

will get you past that, but I don't know whether the console
will support enough VT escapes to run TPU.   Maybe. :)

Try it and see.  Generally the graphics subsystems on VAXen
are only used for running a windowing system.  If you wanted
to run DECWindows, it's a different story.

> It was easier getting a full-screen text editor running on my 
> CoCo, for
> crimeny sakes... [[and it has a real OS, to... ;-) ]]

Well, if your CoCo runs OS9, I'll agree with that last part.

Still, it shouldn't be such a problem on your VAX.  

> be, if a little wordy (SET DEFAULT [000000] versus cd / ... 
> thank god I top
> out at 110wpm... ;-)  but I really wish it would have been a 

Actually that's not as bad as it seems.  First off, you 
can abbreviate default to "DEF", and [000000] to [0,0]

Next, you generally don't need to change to the root
directory, because there's not much there aside from 
the index file (which it's usually bad to manipulate
by hand ;)

VMS also will assume that if you

SET DEF [FOO]

FOO is in the root directory.  Otherwise it wants you
to prepend a directory separator, and say [.FOO]

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 26 12:40:42 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:44 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B89@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net]

> > For a while I used  Turbo Basic under MS-DOS.  It was an 
> > incredible development environment... for a BASIC ... running
> > under MS-DOS... Ok, so it was "passable."  Still :)

> No, it was incredible.  Removing the constraints of using 

I wouldn't go that far.  It was still a BASIC ;)

I like my HLLs to have _some_ structure.

> line numbers was
> a huge improvement on its own.  Allowing variables local to a 
> function or
> procedure was a nice bonus as well.  

Right on both counts, there.

> Turbo BASIC also has an interpretive mode.

I vaguely remember this, actually.  It's been a while, 
as I said. 

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Tue Mar 26 12:56:43 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:58:47 +0100."
             <20020326175847.I295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
Message-ID: <200203261856.SAA23045@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

Jochen Kunz  said:

> On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > This construction reminded me of
> > 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
> > code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
> > micro code engine itself.
> And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> oscilloscopes...

On this subject of odd monitors, who used to make a monitor which drew
the characters on the screen by scanning 25 lines and wobbling the spot?

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Tue Mar 26 13:11:33 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Looking for Fujitsu/HAL GP7000F memory
In-Reply-To: <20020326180542.76406.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>; from jmkatcher@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 19:05:42 CET
References: <20020326180542.76406.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326201133.W295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.26 19:05 Jeffrey Katcher wrote:

> Obsolete SPARC/Solaris server purchased on eBay. 
[...]
> Is anyone familiar with these beasts?
http://www.sunhelp.org/
There are some (more or less) Sun centered mailing lists, FAQs... 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 26 13:12:35 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B8C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Honniball [mailto:coredump@gifford.co.uk]

> The ICL One Per Desk!  The name tells you just how many they thought
> they'd sell.  I have one, bought at a junk shop in Bath, and here's
> a (not very good) photo:

>    http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/opd.htm

> Note the phone handset on the left-hand side and the two phone cords.

It looks like an Atari 800 with a telephone built in. :)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Tue Mar 26 13:18:09 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Looking for Fujitsu/HAL GP7000F memory
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B8D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Katcher [mailto:jmkatcher@yahoo.com]

> Is anyone familiar with these beasts?

Well, I can't tell you what sort of RAM it uses.  I can 
say that I think it's ultrasparc, if it's the HAL I'm 
thinking of.  They used to have an advertisement along
the lines of "Still using a 32-bit workstation?  Why be
normal?"

That might give you some idea of time-frame.

They were very nice for SPARCs in their day.  They were
also supposed to be somewhat more modular than their SUN
counterparts.

I believe Unix Review did at least one article on them.

I think they've stopped printing Unix Review now, but 
that a web publication still exists.  (Could be wrong
there...)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Tue Mar 26 13:33:31 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8EA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>
Message-ID: <3CA0CD0B.355B3B0@Vishay.com>


Douglas Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
> >
...
> > And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> > Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> > keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> > Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> > oscilloscopes...
> 
> This was Tek's "Storage Tube" technology... or something like that.
> 
> We had a o-scope at school which used it... never got to work
> with the computer displays that had it, tho...

Yes, storage tube was the official word. I had what today may be
considered the honor of using a 4014 several years ago. The graphics
command language of the 40xx terminals did set a standard for
generations to come, because it was effective (you packed chunks of four
or six coordinate bits into bytes) and avoided trouble by making sure
only printable characters were used (except for the DEL that could
sometimes occur). Somewhat similar to what today's MIME standard does
with Base64 encoding. You could even leave out (not send) certain bit
groups if they hadn't changed. Very compact.

2400 baud was a perfectly reasonable speed for a graphics terminal, and
you could go even faster...

Unfortunately, I have only manuals left from that aera, and one or two
terminals with a "Tek emulation" graphics mode. Even the VT240 could do
that, but on that screen, it looked ugly, compared to it's native ReGIS.
The only original Tek that I own is a far more modern 412x (haven't
looked closely for a long time).

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 26 13:34:10 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References:  <3CA0B875.57DFF5E0@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d4fd$341e4d20$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

According to google:  "coded data transciever".
- a Manchester coder rather than anything crypto..
It can be used with an 8530 SCC, 1-3Mbit rate,
used in star lans, tokem rings and point to point comms.

looks like no current datasheet (obsolete) @amd but there
is a ref to in in an app note of the end of:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/0751
3.pdf

cheers.
heinz


 "emanuel stiebler"  wrote:

> Just found a board with few am7960 on them.
> Anybody knows what that is ?
> Datasheet ?
>
> It "smells" like an ethernet controller, but didn't find anything
> on the net about it. (to old I guess)
>


From zmerch at 30below.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:24 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: <00c301c1d4fd$341e4d20$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
References: 
 <3CA0B875.57DFF5E0@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326150424.014e2350@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Heinz Wolter may have mentioned these words:
>According to google:  "coded data transciever".
>- a Manchester coder rather than anything crypto..
>It can be used with an 8530 SCC, 1-3Mbit rate,
>used in star lans, tokem rings and point to point comms.

Brain goes Ping, Ping...

[snip]

>> Just found a board with few am7960 on them.
>> Anybody knows what that is ?
>> Datasheet ?
>>
>> It "smells" like an ethernet controller, but didn't find anything
>> on the net about it. (to old I guess)

Ping, Ping... brain goes again...

Judging from the info, I think I've seen that chip before... I have a bunch
of ArcNet cards & an active hub in my basement that I'd bet dollars to
doughnuts uses that chip... 2.5Mbit star network setup - what was nice is
that between active hubs, it'll run a kilometer on thin coax. (Watch out -
it uses 75 ohm terminators, not the 50 ohm of thinnet ethernet!)

That's why I saved a few cards & the hub: just never know when Ethernet's
too fast, and won't go far enough...

Search for "Thomas-Conrad" IIRC - they were a *big* maker of ArcNet
equipment...

HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar 26 14:18:36 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <200203262018.AA19196@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date:   Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:00:26 -0400
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> From: Jeff Hellige 
> Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> 	I've gotten my '040 Cube's optical drive functioning again and now I
> want to take the original distribution optical disks for various
> versions of NeXTstep and make bootable copies of them on more usable
> media, preferably for storage as disk images and as bootable volumes on
> another SCSI disk.  I was thinking of using another magneto-optical
> drive, such as my Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB.  I've got enough
> optical disks to do this and the drive is an external MO.  Is this
> doable?  The images will have to contend with up to 256MB of data and 
> must be fully writable to a new physical disk, including all boot 
> information.
>
> 	My '040 Cube is running NeXTstep 3.3 with CAPer, so if I made
> images I could easily move them on to my main Mac for storage.  The
> distribution disks in question have NS 0.9, 1.0, 1.0a, 2.0, 2.1, and
> 3.0, as well as a non-bootable disk of 3.2.  They've been verified as 
> readable and still containing the OS (on my '040 Cube after being 
> locked).  Due to the unknown quality of the OD in my '030 Cube I 
> really don't want to try and boot one on it and I'd like to get them 
> to another media before I lose the ability to
> read them altogether.

As I recall from experience upgrading a Cube from a 68030 to a 68040
CPU board, NS 1.0a and earlier would not boot on the 68040.  They were
written without knowledge of the future differences between a 68040 and
a 68030, which are significant at the system stack level.  Just something
to think about.

This does not prevent user-level software from running, just system stuff.

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                                          clowenstein@ucsd.edu


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Mar 26 14:20:08 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020326103127.0080bc10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <00fe01c1d45c$391bfda0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
 <3.0.6.32.20020325175727.0080c200@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

>   Look at
>.  >Where
>were all you buyers then?
>
>    Joe

Sadly unaware of it :^(

	Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From stanus at multitel.be  Tue Mar 26 14:27:24 2002
From: stanus at multitel.be (Etienne Stanus)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Emulex UC08 ( Qbus SCSI controller ) 
Message-ID: <1017174444.3ca0d9acb3a3a@mail.multitel.be>

Hi,


I have a old Vax 3400 computer with an Emulex UC08 in it, but I  dont'have any
manuel, any UC08 original scsi cables, neither the pin out of the Emuler UC08
front connector

Can anybody help ?

Thanks

Etienne Stanus
Multitel ASBL
1 Avenue Nicolas Copernic
7000 Mons
Belgium
etienne.stanus@ieee.org




From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar 26 14:39:38 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <200203262039.AA19248@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:09:06 -0600
> From: "James L. Rice" 
> Subject: Re: Unix disk images and archiving
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Organization: Megaeasy Computer Solutions
>
> Jeff, after I emailed you my answer last night, I was thinking that you 
> should be able to just "dd" the images to a files:
>
> dd if=/dev/ of=/tmp/name-of-image-file.here
>
> I create floppy images by:
>
> dd if=/dev/rfd0b of=/tmp/3.3_Mot_Boot_Disk.floppyimage
>
> You should be able to do the same for the OD images.  It takes about 5 
> minutes to create a floppyimage (1.44mb) on my Turbo Slab, so the 
> process won't be fast on a whole 256mb OD.  You may have to create a 
> disktab entry for the Pinnacle Micro Optical Drive, but I've got a Jaz 
> and a Zip working on my Slab, so I'm sure it's very doable.

Presumably using partition "h" which is the whole disk, including the
"front porch" area where the bootstrap and partition table live.

When I did something analogous to this to save my old NeXT OD's, I
did not try to preserve the bootstrap etc.  Just copied the whole
file system to a DAT tape using GNUtar, then extracted it on a SparcStation,
and built and burned an ISO CDrom.  The result was readable on the NeXT,
but of course not bootable.

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                                          clowenstein@ucsd.edu


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Mar 26 14:45:58 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Emulex UC08 ( Qbus SCSI controller )
In-Reply-To: <1017174444.3ca0d9acb3a3a@mail.multitel.be>
Message-ID: 

>I have a old Vax 3400 computer with an Emulex UC08 in it, but I  dont'have any
>manuel, any UC08 original scsi cables, neither the pin out of the Emuler UC08
>front connector
>
>Can anybody help ?

Sure can, there is some partial documentation on the UC07 & UC08 on my FTP
site.  You can find it in the following directory.
ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/  Unfortunatly it looks like it doesn't
have any pinout information.  Look at both the files labeled as UC07* and
UC08* or grab the tarball of all of them.

			Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Tue Mar 26 14:50:37 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326150424.014e2350@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
>
> That's why I saved a few cards & the hub: just never know when Ethernet's
> too fast, and won't go far enough...

  I can answer the first part right now... never.

	Doc

> Search for "Thomas-Conrad" IIRC - they were a *big* maker of ArcNet
> equipment...

  My first network was a set of T-C ArcNet cards & hub somebody gave me.
The 2.5Mbit vs. 10Mbit comparison is horribly misleading.  IIRC, the
speed ratio between ArcNet & 10B2 was more like 1/10.

	Doc


From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar 26 15:18:55 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <200203262118.AA19431@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:12:50 -0500
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> From: Jeff Hellige 
> Subject: Re: Unix disk images and archiving
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> >I think you will have to write a disktab entry for the MO drive.  I had
> >to add one for the Jaz.  NS3.3 is pretty good at determining disk
> >geometry if the drive supports the sense command.  Since PM bit the
> >dust, I'm not sure if there is much documentation out there about the MO
> >drive.  Also keep in mind that the NeXT cube SCSI implementation is
> >pretty primitive.
>
> 	Thanks James...I'll try the disktab from your other message.
>
> >One question, does the MO drive show up in the Workspace browser when
> >you insert a disk?  I can't format a Jaz cart from the command prompt
> >with disk, but I can by selecting it in the GUi and then selecting Disk
> >Initialize....I don't know why.
>
> 	Yes, the DOS and Mac formatted disks mount automatically when 
> the disks are inserted and on one it doesn't recognize it asks if I 
> want to initialize.  It fails initialization from the Workspace just 
> as it did from the shell.  I wasn't sure if NS supported 
> 512bytes/sector or not on the MO.
>
> 	I'll let you know how the disktab works.

For what it's worth, I have used 3.5" MO disks on my NeXTs for many
years.  They have 512 bytes/sector.  I did have to write a disktab entry,
although the values in the table do not at all resemble the true
disk geometry.  (1 head, 25 sectors, 10000 tracks approx.)  Just
keep the product of heads * sectors * tracks less than the actual
number of sectors on the disk.

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein   marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                                          clowenstein@ucsd.edu

From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Tue Mar 26 15:31:05 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Looking for Fujitsu/HAL GP7000F memory
Message-ID: <200203262131.AA19499@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:05:42 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jeffrey Katcher 
> Subject: Looking for Fujitsu/HAL GP7000F memory
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Obsolete SPARC/Solaris server purchased on eBay.=20
> Takes some sort of SIMM/DIMM but not specified
> anywhere.  I know it's not exactly a historic machine,
> though it is awfully nice as a home computer.
>
> Is anyone familiar with these beasts?

Does this have a Sun model number?
Have you looked at the Sun Hardware Reference?

< www.sunhelp.org/faq/sunref1.html >

   carl


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 16:05:24 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References:  <3CA0B875.57DFF5E0@ecubics.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1d512$549d3100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

It's a "Coded Data Transceiver" and I've got the thing in a condensed catalog.
I may even be able to find a databook, but don't hold your breath.  I'll send
you more info off-list.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "emanuel stiebler" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: AMD am7960


> Hi all,
>
> Just found a board with few am7960 on them.
> Anybody knows what that is ?
> Datasheet ?
>
> It "smells" like an ethernet controller, but didn't find anything
> on the net about it. (to old I guess)
>
> cheers & thanks
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 16:07:38 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: 
Message-ID: <004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ... 

Dick

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doc" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: AMD am7960


> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
> >
> > That's why I saved a few cards & the hub: just never know when Ethernet's
> > too fast, and won't go far enough...
> 
>   I can answer the first part right now... never.
> 
> Doc
> 
> > Search for "Thomas-Conrad" IIRC - they were a *big* maker of ArcNet
> > equipment...
> 
>   My first network was a set of T-C ArcNet cards & hub somebody gave me.
> The 2.5Mbit vs. 10Mbit comparison is horribly misleading.  IIRC, the
> speed ratio between ArcNet & 10B2 was more like 1/10.
> 
> Doc
> 
> 


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 26 16:16:06 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: Re: AMD am7960 (Richard Erlacher)
References: 
	<004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ... 

  Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.

  Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From zmerch at 30below.com  Tue Mar 26 16:27:26 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326150424.014e2350@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326172726.014e2350@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Doc may have mentioned these words:
>On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
>>
>> That's why I saved a few cards & the hub: just never know when Ethernet's
>> too fast, and won't go far enough...
>
>  I can answer the first part right now... never.

I understand that might be true for you, but I don't think I'd ever get my
CoCos to run even 10Mbit, but it might be able to sustain 2.5Mbit, depends
on the buffers on the card, and whatnot...

I do have a few 8-bit T-C ArcNet cards stashed away, just for the purpose
of experimentation... ;-)

>> Search for "Thomas-Conrad" IIRC - they were a *big* maker of ArcNet
>> equipment...
>
>  My first network was a set of T-C ArcNet cards & hub somebody gave me.
>The 2.5Mbit vs. 10Mbit comparison is horribly misleading.  IIRC, the
>speed ratio between ArcNet & 10B2 was more like 1/10.

Beats the heck out of 9600... especially 1/2km away. I'm thinking of
integrating this into a remote sensing platform, if wireless data
communication is not feasable (say, underground??? Eventually I want to
build a "beer bunker" an underground beer / wine / foodstuffs cellar,
computer controlled for "atmospheric sensing" and maybe controlling some
vents...

It should be ready for sale by the year 2060. ;-)

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 16:40:46 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: <004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d517$4876e4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

It is, indeed, it's not yet standardized, but it's certainly functional.  It's
cabling and connectors that are holding up the works.  They're even running
(testing) it on coax.  I'd be happy to get it to work at all at that high
rate.  That would be PERFECT for SCSI over IP.  Finally I'd be able to run a
disk farm ... I wonder how that would smell ...

About that capacity bit ... My hubs have a set of indicators that show how
much of capacity is being used, and I don't think I've ever seen 'em at more
than 20% even when I'm running backup over the LAN on two stations.  I went
from 10 Mb to 100 Mb ethernet just to facilitate the backups, since my daily
backups took over 24 hours on the 10 MB ethernet.  I also wanted to record in
real-time to CD without ruining media, and that, at least with the software
I've got, doesn't work regardless of whether its standard or "fast" ethernet.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McGuire" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: AMD am7960


> On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ...
>
>   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
>
>   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..
>
>       -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
>
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 17:04:41 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020326050046.WABR8136.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 25, 2 11:59:19 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 425 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020326/cbef9bbd/attachment.ksh
From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 17:14:27 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Intel iUP 201
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020326181427.007ff850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Hans-Werner,

   I know a little bit about the Intel iUP 201 and I have the User's Guide for it. I just got a 201, unfortunately it seems to be in very poor shape and isn't working. Actually there's two very similar machines, the iUP 200 and the iUP 201 but for the sake of simplification I'll just refer to them as a model 201.  The differenece between an iUP 200 and an iUP 201 is that the 200 does not have the keyboard or display and it MUST be run from a computer. The 201 may be operated manually.

  The 201s were made to be used on the Intel MDS (Microcomputer Developement System) machines such as the MDS-800, MDS-888 and MDS 225. The intel MDSs are also referred to as Intellecs. It's a reasonable guess that the 201 replaced the earlier Intel iUPP 103 EPROM programmer. The 103 programmer is listed in the 1978 and 1981 Intel catalogs and the iUP 201 is shown in the 1986 catalog. Strangly, neither one is shown in the 1983 catalog that I have.  The 1986 catalog states that the 201 will run on the intellecs, the Intel iPDS systems, iNDS networks (networked intellec machines) or with IBM PC, XT, AT computers or compatibles. However my 201 user's manual has no instructions about how to connect or use one on anything other than an Intel machine. I've also asked friends of mine that used these when they were current and they all state that they've never heard of them being used on a PC.

  An Intel iPDS is a Personal Developement System. It's basicly a portable computer that looks very much like an Osborne portable but it's used exclusively for developement work.  It and all the other Intellecs and MDSs all run an operating system called ISIS. The iNDS runs a system called iNDX. The iPDSs had small pod like EPROM burners as an option and both they and the iUP 201 both use the same personality modules. 


   Here's a list of personality modules that I know of:

  iUP-Fast 27/K  for 2764, 2764a, 27128, 27256.
  iUP-Fast 27/K with U1 upgrade kit for 2764, 2764a, 27128, 27256.
  iUP-Fast 27/K with U2 upgrade kit for 2764, 2764a, 27128, 27256, 27c64, 27128a, 27512, 27513, 2817a, 87c64, 27c256 and 27916.
  iUP-F27/128 for 2716, 2732, 2732a, 2764, 27128, 2815 and 2816.
  iUP-F87/51A for 8748, 8748h, 8048, 8749h, 8048h, 8049, 8049h, 8050h, 8751, 8751h and 8051.
  iUP-F87/44A  for 8741a, 8041a, 8742, 8042, 8744a, 8044ah and 8755a.
 

  Here's a list of manuals that you may want to try and find:

166041-001  iUP 200A/201A Universal Programmer User's Guide
166402-001  Getting Started with the iUP 200A/201A (for ISIS/iNDX Users).
166403-001  Getting Started with the iUP 200A/201A (for DOS Users).
164853      iUP 200A/201A Universal Programmer Pocket Reference

   All of these were published by Intel.


  Answers to Your Questions: 

   The manual states that the 201 automaticly adjusts itself during initialization the the host computer's serial baud rate (110 to 9600 baud). However it says nothing about the number of data bits, parity, etc. However IIRC the Intellecs use 7 bit ASCII so that's probably what it uses.  BUT it uses a long parameter string and it's much to lengthy to describe by e-mail.  It would probably be best if you contact me directly and I can see about getting the manual copied and sending it to you. There's also several pages in the 1986 catalog that describe the keyboard functions. I don't know if that's repeated in the manual so you may want to get a copy of it too.

      Joe






At 08:26 AM 3/26/02 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Can someone help Hans-Werner?
>
>--
>
>From: Hans-Werner.Ruch@t-online.de (Hans-Werner Ruch)
>Subject: Intel iUP-201: Can you please help me?
>Date sent: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:29:59 +0100
>
>Hi,
>
>
>I recently got one of the ancient Intel Eprom Programmer iUP-201
>together with a FAST27/K adaptor and RS-232 cable. It still works fine
>(operated manually). Now my idea is to connect the iUP to a PC to
>transfer data to/from it, but unfortunately I haven't got any
>documentation and so I neither know the necessary RS-232 parameters
>(baudrate, kind of parity, no. of stop bits), nor the commands
>(strings/bytes?) the iUP awaits.
>If you have some information or documentation on this subject, I would
>really appreciate if you could send it to me. Hints are also welcome.
>-- 
>
>Regards,
>Hans-Werner Ruch
>__________________________________________________
>Drlinger Str. 5 b
>82229 Seefeld
>Germany
>Fax +49-(0)8152-980027
>
>--
>
>Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org
>
> * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
>
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 17:16:21 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <20020326175847.I295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
References: <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>
 <3CA00403.D66F992F@jetnet.ab.ca>
 <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020326181621.00800850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 05:58 PM 3/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
>On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
>
>> This construction reminded me of
>> 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
>> code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
>> micro code engine itself.
>And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
>Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
>keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
>Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
>oscilloscopes...

  If you think that's strange you should have seen the Tektronix 8051 computer. It also used a storage tube for a CRT!  You had to periodicly press an Erase button to clear the screen!!


   Joe


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Tue Mar 26 17:17:17 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: SWTPc 6800 update
In-Reply-To: <02Mar26.124222est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020326181717.00801d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 12:26 PM 3/26/02 -0400, Jeff wrote:
>	UPS delivered my 6800 and the MF-68 floppy disk system today. 
>After spending almost a week floating around UPS trucks in Washington 
>state the documentation and terminal kit are finally on their way 
>east again as well.  The dirt/spider buildup after 20 years on a 
>shelf is considerable, so it's going to take quite a bit of cleaning 
>up but it's wholly intact and in pretty nice shape.  One nice thing 
>is that it has an EPROM progammer board installed, as well as 20k 
>RAM, serial card, CPU card, and disk controller.  Overall, a pretty 
>nice setup..

   OK don't rub it in! :-/

   Joe


From fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 17:19:20 2002
From: fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk (Francis Bell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: 	<004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <3CA101F8.6070504@blueyonder.co.uk>

Well you can buy it from Cisco since September 5, 2001:

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/ifaa/6500ggml/



Dave McGuire wrote:
> On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> 
>>Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ... 
>>
> 
>   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
> 
>   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..
> 
>       -Dave
> 
> 



From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Tue Mar 26 17:20:47 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706650B@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


	>  Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the
standardization
	>process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.

	Hardware does exist - just you can't afford it (and it's
	probably not going to be available on the hobbyist
	market for a little while yet). Even the optics are
	hellishly expensive!

	>  Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..

	Well it's certainly run to capacity in the
	test labs. Exactly what customers fo with
	them is up to them!

	100MB to the desktop seems to work well 
	enough for me. Especially since the link out
	of the building is just a T1 ...

	Antonio


From vaxzilla at jarai.org  Tue Mar 26 17:26:12 2002
From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: <15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
>
>   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..

Oooh ooh!  WE do!   Of course we've got 20TB of
fileserver work space we deal with for our file storage and render
output.  Get a couple hundred fast CPUs cranking away all at once and
your core switches start to feel the pain.  Also, backups are fun.

-brian.


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Tue Mar 26 17:51:55 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA1099B.E70F7FA@jetnet.ab.ca>

Brian Chase wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:
> 
> >   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> > process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
> >
> >   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..
> 
> Oooh ooh!  WE do!   Of course we've got 20TB of
> fileserver work space we deal with for our file storage and render
> output.  Get a couple hundred fast CPUs cranking away all at once and
> your core switches start to feel the pain.  Also, backups are fun.
> 

Dev/NULL works wonders for backups :)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 26 17:54:13 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8FB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> At 04:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
> >of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
> >I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
> >I should look at the source...
> 
> If you're talking about DEC BASIC as implement on 
> VMS, you are wrong:

What's a VMS? Is that a computer? 

I was talking about the DEC BASIC that made BASIC famous,
the BASIC from TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 on the DECsystem-10.

> VAX BASIC V3.8-000

Looks like some kind of vacuum cleaner to me...


From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Tue Mar 26 17:56:01 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8FC@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com]
> 
> > > I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.
> 
> > > Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.
> 
> > While it's possible that DEC BASIC was an early adopter
> > of incremental compilation techniques, I don't think so...
> > I'm pretty sure DEC BASIC is a simple interpreter. I guess
> > I should look at the source...
> 
> Could be.  Not having used DEC BASIC, myself, I'm not sure :)
> 
> I am sure that Turbo Basic was a compiler.

Well, at least as much as Turbo Pascal was...

-dq

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 17:57:02 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: SWTPc 6800 update
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020326181717.00801d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20020326101339.0080a540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20020326181717.00801d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 

>  >RAM, serial card, CPU card, and disk controller.  Overall, a pretty
>>nice setup..
>
>    OK don't rub it in! :-/

	Rubbing it in would've been mentioning that the exact same 
KIM-1 setup I just picked up for near nothing had an identical twin 
on eBay go for $400..

	One thing odd about the 6800 though is that there is a 36pin 
ribbon cable going from the bottom of the mainboard to a D-shell 
connector on the rear of the machine.  Most of the wires from the 
ribbon cable are soldered to various points on the SS-50 bus.  The 
guy I got it from doesn't have a clue what it was used for.  Another 
interesting point is that what I thought was a 6800/2, based on the 
rear of the case, would appear to be an earlier machine based on all 
of the boards inside.  All of them are of the original set vice the 
later updated/modified ones.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 26 18:10:33 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: Re: AMD am7960 (Francis Bell)
References: 
	<004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	<15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<3CA101F8.6070504@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15521.3577.677444.686174@phaduka.neurotica.com>


  Scary.  News to me.

  So...how long will it take for the industry to convince the general
population that they NEEEEEED 10GB ethernet to their desktops?

    -Dave

On March 26, Francis Bell wrote:
> Well you can buy it from Cisco since September 5, 2001:
> 
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/ifaa/6500ggml/
> 
> 
> 
> Dave McGuire wrote:
> > On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > 
> >>Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ... 
> >>
> > 
> >   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> > process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
> > 
> >   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..
> > 
> >       -Dave
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 18:13:38 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA0784C.14979.67371CD5@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 26, 2 01:31:56 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 4247 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/aaf5fb26/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 18:16:35 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <001d01c1d4ca$88c3cc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 26, 2 06:31:28 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 780 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/45e53fee/attachment.ksh
From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Tue Mar 26 18:31:17 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: [comp.sys.transputer] Free Transputer gear to a good home...
Message-ID: <200203270031.g2R0VGuO013458@ns2.i16.net>

I would say this stuff is worth rescuing...Contact David Clarke by phone
if interested. 

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:31:22 -0500, David Clarke wrote:

> Dear Readers,
> 
> AT&T Labs Cambridge (once known as Olivetti Research) will close at the
> end of April - barring a miracle.
> 
> We have a number of B004 and B008 development boards, TRAMs and about 20
> individual transputers in PGA packages. As far as I know it is all in
> working order, though it is a while since any of it was used.
> 
> There is also a vintage 486 PC which has ISA slots suitable for the dev.
> boards, but no monitor.
> 
> I believe that we could donate it all to a researcher who was prepared
> to collect it from our Lab in Cambridge (England).
> 
> It is with great regret that I post this message, but if someone does
> not take the stuff, it is likely to end up in the crusher.
> 
> Which would be a pity.
> 
> David Clarke
> AT&T Labs Cambridge
> +44 (0) 1223 343316
> 
> p.s. I'd prefer a phone call - email is ok but there is no point in
> posting a reply to this newsgoup as I won't read it.

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 26 18:43:21 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: RE: DEC Hardware design available (Huw Davies)
References: <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com>
	<4.3.2.7.2.20020326192921.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>
Message-ID: <15521.5545.226768.578112@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 26, Huw Davies wrote:
> > > Just a note that  lists two copies of
> > > Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's
> > > cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
> >
> >I have one up for $49 with no bids right now.
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011505056
> 
> US$49! That's nearly $100 Aussie dollars.
> 
> I know it's a good book (I have two copies, one of which I've read, the 
> other I just acquired and has never been opened) but I wouldn't pay $100 
> for it. In fact, I don't recall paying for either copy, they were just 
> "Huw, have this book".

  Heh...does that mean you'd sell yours for US$49?

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Tue Mar 26 18:49:16 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <20020326.184919.-44981793.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:54:13 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman
 writes:
> I was talking about the DEC BASIC that made BASIC famous,
> the BASIC from TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 on the DECsystem-10.
> 
> > VAX BASIC V3.8-000
> 
> Looks like some kind of vacuum cleaner to me...

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, it isn't BASIC unless it's
BASIC-PLUS running under RSTS/e.

Sorry, you guys resurrected and old (and very fond)
memory . . . 


Jeff 


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From donm at cts.com  Tue Mar 26 19:07:20 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020326181621.00800850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:

> At 05:58 PM 3/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
> >
> >> This construction reminded me of
> >> 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
> >> code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
> >> micro code engine itself.
> >And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> >Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> >keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> >Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> >oscilloscopes...
>
>   If you think that's strange you should have seen the Tektronix 8051
                                                     Do you mean   4051?

						 - don

> computer. It also used a storage tube for a CRT!  You had to
> periodicly press an Erase button to clear the screen!!
>
>
>    Joe
>
>


From dittman at dittman.net  Tue Mar 26 19:17:35 2002
From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <15521.5545.226768.578112@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Mar 26, 2002 07:43:21 PM
Message-ID: <200203270117.g2R1HZU15701@narnia.int.dittman.net>

> > > > Just a note that  lists two copies of
> > > > Computer Design: A DEC View ... for sale. One is $34 and one is $57. That's
> > > > cheaper than Ebay by a long shot.
> > >
> > >I have one up for $49 with no bids right now.
> > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2011505056
> > 
> > US$49! That's nearly $100 Aussie dollars.
> > 
> > I know it's a good book (I have two copies, one of which I've read, the 
> > other I just acquired and has never been opened) but I wouldn't pay $100 
> > for it. In fact, I don't recall paying for either copy, they were just 
> > "Huw, have this book".
> 
>   Heh...does that mean you'd sell yours for US$49?

I have a copy of this book.  I got it for free when I was
taking a class at DEC (before Compaq).  I got a copy of
other books at the training center as well.
-- 
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

From jhellige at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 19:27:57 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <200203262018.AA19196@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
References: <200203262018.AA19196@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
Message-ID: 

>As I recall from experience upgrading a Cube from a 68030 to a 68040
>CPU board, NS 1.0a and earlier would not boot on the 68040.  They were
>written without knowledge of the future differences between a 68040 and
>a 68030, which are significant at the system stack level.  Just something
>to think about.

	Will 2.X boot on an '040?  I knew that 1.X and below won't 
work on the '040 but thought that it applied to 2.X as well.  My main 
reason for wanting to archive all the OD distributions that I have is 
because it's quite easy to come up with a CD of 3.X but rarely do you 
ever hear about someone with the earlier versions and they need to be 
archived while there are still a few of the finicky optical drives 
still functioning.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From ernestls at attbi.com  Tue Mar 26 19:43:27 2002
From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is it 720k or 1.44 meg?

Thanks.

Ernest 

From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 19:47:14 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References:  <3CA0B875.57DFF5E0@ecubics.com> <00c301c1d4fd$341e4d20$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
Message-ID: <002d01c1d531$53e95940$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I found the datasheet on www.freetradezone.com and forwarded it to Emanuel.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Heinz Wolter" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: AMD am7960


> According to google:  "coded data transciever".
> - a Manchester coder rather than anything crypto..
> It can be used with an 8530 SCC, 1-3Mbit rate,
> used in star lans, tokem rings and point to point comms.
>
> looks like no current datasheet (obsolete) @amd but there
> is a ref to in in an app note of the end of:
> http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/0751
> 3.pdf
>
> cheers.
> heinz
>
>
>  "emanuel stiebler"  wrote:
>
> > Just found a board with few am7960 on them.
> > Anybody knows what that is ?
> > Datasheet ?
> >
> > It "smells" like an ethernet controller, but didn't find anything
> > on the net about it. (to old I guess)
> >
>
>


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Tue Mar 26 19:48:45 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: Tek 4051 (was ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

	We used to have one of these down at Georgia Tech, in the computing center.
The nice thing about was that most people didn't understand the use of the
'Clear' key to clear the screen.  As a result, people would logon, discover
that after a page full the characters start overwriting each other (the
terminal doesn't support scrolling), get disgusted, log off, and never it
again.

	As a result, it meant that for those of us in the know, we always had a
terminal availabel in the cluster.  Same was true of the teletypes, until
they were replaced.

	I wrote a Pascal based turtle graphics program for the 4051, running on the
Cyber.  That was fun.

	--John


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 20:07 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
>
> > At 05:58 PM 3/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
> > >On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
> > >
> > >> This construction reminded me of
> > >> 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
> > >> code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
> > >> micro code engine itself.
> > >And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> > >Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> > >keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
> > >Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
> > >oscilloscopes...
> >
> >   If you think that's strange you should have seen the Tektronix 8051
>                                                      Do you mean   4051?
>
> 						 - don
>
> > computer. It also used a storage tube for a CRT!  You had to
> > periodicly press an Erase button to clear the screen!!
> >
> >
> >    Joe
> >
> >
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Tue Mar 26 19:56:21 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
References: <004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com><15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com><3CA101F8.6070504@blueyonder.co.uk> <15521.3577.677444.686174@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1d532$9850d580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Volume, particuarly in SAN and MAN applications, will drive the prices down.
Once the cost is low enough, you might as well have lightspeed on your
desktop.  100Mb ethernet cards cost about $12 nowadays.  Back when I bought my
first ones, they weren't that cheap, believe me!  What's more, by the time
they get the 100Gb technology to where it's manufacturable, the price pressure
on 10Gb will be so severe that they'll incorporate it into your motherboards.
It won't be long before people forget about Gflops and talk in terms of
Tflops, Tbytes of RAM, and disk drives with exabytes of storage.

Poor ol' Data, of Startrek the Next Generation fame is already obsolete only a
decade after the performance and capacity he represented was unthinkable.
Imagine what another decade will bring.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McGuire" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: AMD am7960


>
>   Scary.  News to me.
>
>   So...how long will it take for the industry to convince the general
> population that they NEEEEEED 10GB ethernet to their desktops?
>
>     -Dave
>
> On March 26, Francis Bell wrote:
> > Well you can buy it from Cisco since September 5, 2001:
> >
> > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/ifaa/6500ggml/
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave McGuire wrote:
> > > On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > >
> > >>Yeah! Gee!  They're running Ethernet at 10GB nowadays ...
> > >>
> > >
> > >   Really?  Last I heard 10GB ethernet was still in the standardization
> > > process, and nobody had hardware that was even close to working.
> > >
> > >   Hell, 1GB ethernet rarely (if ever) is run to capacity..
> > >
> > >       -Dave
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
>
>


From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:13:06 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020910.02455a98@192.168.1.1>

At 13:30 26/03/2002, you wrote:


> >> It sold for \pounds 399 in the UK.
>
>Yup, paid my money ...and waited...and waited! Worth it in the end.
>
>
> > My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk
> > drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold
> > rather better in the UK.
>
> >Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
> >external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.
> >Anyway, history.
>
>Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?

Yup.

>Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
>professional market perhaps?

No - the ICL OPD was a niche product, designed for telephony (e.g. 
reception work, possibly telesales - although I'm not sure if "telesales" 
really existed in the mid '80s).

The pro market was sort of catered for by the Thor, started as a QL in a 
big beige box with a beige monitor and XT-style keyboard. It moved on quite 
rapidly, eventually becoming an accomplished 68000 (not 68008) machine with 
an improved OS (SMS/Q - still alive & well today). Unfortunately, the Thor 
was too late - the IBM PC had already begun to claim dominance, primarily 
due to the rapidly emerging clone market.

>For those of us that were serious about computing, that didn't have access
>to the kind of money a PC or Mac cost, the QL was a godsend. 68k assembler
>was a bit of a jmp after Z80 though!

More of a JMP.L, surely? :) (Actually, it may be JUMP.L, I forget now...)

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:13:43 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:45 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA08CBC.13268.6786F15B@localhost>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327021317.0245d898@192.168.1.1>

At 13:59 26/03/2002, you wrote:

>  > > My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk
> > > drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold
> > > rather better in the UK.
> > >Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
> > >external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.
> > >Anyway, history.
>
> > Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?
> > Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
> > professional market perhaps?
>
>I guess today this would be called 'embedded market'. A OPD is still
>a top issue on my want list.

I've seen two pass through eBay in recent months - both went for silly 
money (and I didn't win either of them :( )

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:22:09 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3C9F83CF.18523.637C150A@localhost>
References: <3C9F6EF2.2DB62191@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327021503.02462ae8@192.168.1.1>

At 19:08 25/03/2002, you wrote:

> > This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
>
>Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
>different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
>OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
>and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
>MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers.

Hmm...

It *was* revolutionary for 1984, this is true. However, QDos is not a 
/true/ multitasking OS; it relied on co-operative time-slicing. So, one 
badly written task could hog the whole machine (not uncommon...).

SuperBASIC was - still is - fantastic. It far outstripped ALL versions of 
BASIC available at the time, and (IMNSHO) was not really superceded until 
Visual Basic 2 or 3 - and even then, VB's main improvement was the forms 
designer. OTOH, the "window" facility was vastly over-rated. Unfortunately, 
however, it wasn't possible to harness the tasking system from within 
SuperBASIC - that required machine code.


>And second, yes, no disks, but for what ? the microdrives where (in
>the 1983 timeframe) quite comperable to any SOHO System - 100k per
>media and an access time comperable to most small systems, including
>the Apple (of course quite faster than unmodigfied C64s :).

Agreed. Oddly enough, I had nearly no problems with microdrives; the 
biggest trouble is when one of the padded backing springs goes awol 
(meaning nothing to hold the tape against the read/write heads, meaning no 
read/write). I have 1984 vintage microdrive carts here which still 
read/write like they were brand new. OK, I've not used them hard in 8 
years, but they got plenty bashed in the 10 years before that. I used my QL 
almost continuously from June '84 (when I got it) to sometime in '94, when 
I left University (and got a job using PCs).

>And adding a disc controler wasn't that expansive (720K 3.5"), if
>your need did ourtgrow the microdrives.

Erm, it did back then... A basic single-disc system (3.5", 720K) + 
interface cost circa GBP400. The first Winchester disc systems (5MB) cost 
over GBP1000 when first available.

> > I found out that it cost APPLE $100 ??? to make the $500 ??? floppy
> > system for their computer reading the history of the apple from a web
> > site.
>
>That's called best bussines practice :))

Capitalism: Charge what the market will stand - no more, no less.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:24:10 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260B77@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327022250.0243be90@192.168.1.1>

At 20:15 25/03/2002, you wrote:



>I hear that DEC BASIC is good, too.

Not bad; at least, not the version I used.


>Both of the above examples are compilers, though, I think.

DEC BASIC certainly was; or at least, it generated executable code. It may 
still have run under an interpreter, I know not.

>Anyway, the point is that things based on BASIC don't need to
>be all bad.  There is little difference between BASIC and many
>command languages which are perfectly useable.  Now, whether
>one would write real software in it is another question.

I wrote a footie manager game in DEC BASIC. Bloody huge it was...

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:36:11 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA0784C.14979.67371CD5@localhost>
References: 
 <3C9F737B.11700.633C4C4E@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327022521.01915500@192.168.1.1>

At 12:31 26/03/2002, you wrote:

> > > Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.
> > > A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
> > > good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as
>
> > That does not make it a 'real keyboard'. In fact the QL keyboard I used
> > was pretty unpleasant. My QL was obtained surplus as the bottom half only
> > (no keyboard), so I kludged on a matrix of switches from my junk box.
> > It's one of the few QLs with useable keys IMHO...
>
>maybe, still you could work quite well.

I learned to type on one.... Myabe thsi is wyh I cnat' tpye :)

They were fatally flawed, however: The underlying membrane was made of 
biodegradable materials (duh!), and usually cracked where it was folded 
(duh!) out of the keyboard enclosure down onto the mainboard. Not that it 
wouldn't last for years, mind you. It was certainly leagues ahead of all 
previous Sinclair keyboards.

The other problem involves the I/O hardware, which was unbuffered. This is 
why switching peripherals on & off while the QL is switched on can fry the 
QL...


> > > much as the first Mac, but expandable to 640 or 900) and two tape
> > > drives with ~100K each.
>
> > > Furthermore: Serial Interface, Joystick Ports and a full figured
> > > Network. As cream ontop of the cake a complete application suite
>
> > You forgot to mention that the tape drives were very unreliable if used
> > continuousely (those endless loop tapes would stretch and/or jam).
>
>Right, but you could manufacture your own - using regular music
>cassette tape of acceptrable quality did work quite well.

Never tried that... OTOH, in 18 years of QL ownership, I've only ever had 
one single cartridge jam.


> > that the network was similar to the kludge used on the Spectrum.
>
>Jep, but it worked. it is always easy to say XYZ is crap, not
>as good as something else at 100 times the price. Remember, in
>1983 Networkcable, for a 'real' networ allone cost you more than
>a QL

I never did get a working QL network. Mind you, I didn't get a second QL 
for 10 years, so I never really tried very hard. I've got 5 now, maybe I 
should look into it again.

> > The QL was, alas, as typical Sinclair design. Built to a price, and it
> > shows. It may have been reasonable to do that for a home computer where
> > people couldn't/wouldn't afford anything better, but not for something
> > that claimed to be a business computer.
>
>At this scale, a Mac of the same time would also not qualify as
>a business system ... not even cursor keys nor a numpad nor any
>kind of interfase ... etc. pp.

Don't forget, the QL didn't have a numpad either. It also had a 
non-standard key layour (semi-American).


> > > with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.
> > > And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower
>
> > It sold for \pounds 399 in the UK.
>
>At the beginning ? I'm just asking, because I don't remember the
>price on the island.

Yes, it went on sale in January 1984 for GBP399. First units shipped in 
about March or April (FB rom version, rumoured to stand for "Full of Bugs" 
- these were the kludged machines which effectively killed the QL before it 
ever got going), reliable units shipped sometime after April (PM, AH, JM, 
JS roms respectively, IIRC). After about 18 months/2 years, the price 
dropped to GBP199.

> > My view is that had it sold for \pounds 600 or so and had a real disk
> > drive, real serial ports, and a useable keyboard then it might have sold
> > rather better in the UK.
>
>Maybe they should have had a 'professional' version with an
>external keyboard and disk drives, to satisfy both markets.

Sinclair never aimed it at the high-end "pro" market; it was always aimed 
at the SOHO market (which barely existed at the time). Unfortunately, in 
doing so, he managed to alienate the games market (they stuck to Spectrums, 
Commodore 64s & Amstrads), and miss the high-end market (who were going 
with IBM & clones). By the time the QL's market came about, PC clones were 
cheap enough to make them the better option.

>Anyway, history.

Yep. So much could have been different, but it wasn't to be.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:37:58 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA0BBA7.4AECCCEF@gifford.co.uk>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327023709.018454c0@192.168.1.1>

At 18:19 26/03/2002, you wrote:


>Richard.Sandwell@roebry.co.uk wrote:
> > Can't remember - did Sinclair license the technology to ICL and *cough* BT?
> > Would the Merlin Tonto and ICL OPD (one per desk) have covered off the
> > professional market perhaps?
>
>The ICL One Per Desk!  The name tells you just how many they thought
>they'd sell.

Well - there's an awful lot of desks out there, and they've mostly got 
telephones on them. Many also have computers...

Can't fault the logic...

>John Honniball

Not THE John Honniball, formerly of Miracle Systems?
-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:35 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3CA0784C.14979.67371CD5@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327023947.023fd138@192.168.1.1>

At 00:13 27/03/2002, you wrote:

>Well, I found the QL keyboard to be very unpleasant to use...

Quirky, not "unpleasant". Definitely quirky...


>Err, a serious business computer (which is what the QL was sold as in the
>UK, at least initially) does not require you to make your own media.

The trouble was the price. Sinclair would have had to approximately double 
the machine's price - and quite possibly size & weight - to get a disk 
drive in (forget the Amstrad 3" wreckages, they're about as reliable as 
microdrives).

Granted, the QL would possibly have enjoyed more success that way, but 
Sinclair is Sinclair.

>In any case, unreliability was still a problem. And I, for one, am not
>going to use a computer where I can't be certain of being able to read my
>files back again.

I'll happily relieve you of any old QL stuff you still have...


-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From Innfogra at aol.com  Tue Mar 26 20:53:24 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
Message-ID: <62.1d1592e1.29d28e24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/02 5:47:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
ernestls@attbi.com writes:


> What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is it 720k or 1.44 meg?
> 

To quote the 1988 HP Catalog "the HP9114B provides up to 710 Kbytes of 
formatted capacity in a lightweight, battery-operated package. The 3.5" disk 
drive reads, writes and initializes double-sided media in both single-sided 
and double-sided formats.

Paxton
Astoria,
Oregon
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020326/e655b165/attachment.html
From mcguire at neurotica.com  Tue Mar 26 21:21:30 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: AMD am7960
In-Reply-To: Re: AMD am7960 (Richard Erlacher)
References: 
	<004701c1d512$a59ad580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
	<15520.62246.315213.681420@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<3CA101F8.6070504@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<15521.3577.677444.686174@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<004101c1d532$9850d580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <15521.15034.982117.137172@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 26, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> Volume, particuarly in SAN and MAN applications, will drive the prices down.
> Once the cost is low enough, you might as well have lightspeed on your
> desktop.

  Yes yes, but a little balance might be nice.  Most system busses can't
handle that sort of bandwidth...so what's the point?  Faster is
better...but only if it's *useful*.  Upgrading for the sake of
upgrading is bogus, and only serves the wallets of the vendors' VPs.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 26 21:23:03 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020327032444.QORK11676.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Hans Franke 

> Well, my instruction reads that L1 has to be set as soon as you have
> a 4118 (or the otehr way around, it is only to be left out if you have
> two 2114). Please check also the scanned assembly instructions at the
> ZX Team pages (English Version)
> http://home.t-online.de/home/p.liebert/f_zx81_e.htm

Well, the schematic is also available on the TEAMs site (adjacent to the
assembly instructions), although "L1 for 1K" and "L2 for 2K" does not
exactly specify the number of RAM ICs . . .

There were a number of revisions of the PCB which were issued.

BUT -- I have 2 ZX81 PCBs and 1 TS1000 PCB close at hand, and what I found
is that NO jumper is installed on either of the ZX81 boards (both are Issue
One and have 2x2114), but the TS1000 (Issue 3 with a single 2016) has L2
(actually marked LK2) installed.

I have a couple of dozen more of these at my shop, and will check them out
as well.
 
> BTW, have I already told the story that I build a
> casher out of a ZX81 ?

No, but I'd like to read it ;>)

Glen
0/0


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Tue Mar 26 21:26:15 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020910.02455a98@192.168.1.1>
Message-ID: <3CA13BD7.A77CA0B0@jetnet.ab.ca>

Adrian Vickers wrote:

> The pro market was sort of catered for by the Thor, started as a QL in a
> big beige box with a beige monitor and XT-style keyboard. It moved on quite
> rapidly, eventually becoming an accomplished 68000 (not 68008) machine with
> an improved OS (SMS/Q - still alive & well today). Unfortunately, the Thor
> was too late - the IBM PC had already begun to claim dominance, primarily
> due to the rapidly emerging clone mark

Lets not forget the 68008 was a slow chip because all instructions on
the 68000 was 2 or 4 or 6 bytes long and the 68008 only had a 8 bit
buss. The 68000 I think too used a 8 x clock so the real clock speed is
a lot slower than it seems. 

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 26 21:35:57 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <20020327033733.POOG24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Richard Erlacher 

> Well, I may be able to help you out here.  I've got TB and a book or two.

Thanks, Dick!  I just found the manual, so all I really need are the disks,
or copies of them.  Let me know how much to send you, or if you prefer to
email 'em that'll work too.

Glen
0/0


From vp at mcs.drexel.edu  Tue Mar 26 22:28:25 2002
From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
Message-ID: <200203270428.XAA26624@king.mcs.drexel.edu>

"Ernest"  wrote:
> What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is it 720k or 1.44 meg?
they use 720K floppies

HP 110, Portable PLUS and the IBM PC (using the HP-IL card) use
512 bytes per sector, 9 sectors per track for a formatted capacity of 710K

The Series 40 and 70 use
256 bytes per sector, 16 sectors per track for a formatted capacity of 630K

The lower capacity is due to the fact that the 9114 spares tracks to be
used as replacements for bad sectors on the diskette.

**vp

From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Tue Mar 26 22:30:51 2002
From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
In-Reply-To: <15521.5545.226768.578112@phaduka.neurotica.com>
References: 
 <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com>
 <4.3.2.7.2.20020326192921.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020327153025.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>

At 07:43 PM 26/03/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   Heh...does that mean you'd sell yours for US$49?

Maybe, or swap it for something on my collections list....

Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
                      | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
                      | air, the sky would be painted green" 


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 26 23:51:45 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020327055342.FBOX27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

I wrote:

> > After checking the schematic I find that there is a link.  "Use L1 for
1K
> > RAM, use L2 for 2K RAM."  This tells me that when a 4118 or two 2114s
are
> > used (or a 6116???) there is no need to change the jumper -- it's only
> > required when using a 2KB 2016 or equivalent.

Tony replied:

> What is this link connected to? What does it reconnect? 

Ok -- I have yet another version of the schematic here, and it agrees with
the first -- L1 for 1K and L2 for 2K but does NOT specify what this means
in terms of the actual number of RAM ICs onboard.

>From looking at the schematic from the ZX-TEAM web site, I can't see how
either jumper would affect a two-chip configuration.  L1 ties the single
RAM chip's A10 to +5V, while L2 ties the single chip's A10 to the A10 line
on the system bus.

Can you make any sense out of this, or is it necessary to be Clive Sinclair
in order to understand it?

As mentioned in a previous post, the 2-RAM-chip ZX81 PCBs I have at hand
have NEITHER L1 or L2 installed.

I would consider experimentally changing the links L1 and L2 and seeing if
this made a difference in the amount of RAM present, except that we're
talking about +5V and I don't want to toast any ICs, even common ones, if I
can avoid it.

Any insight you can provide will be helpful.

Glen
0/0


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 00:24:59 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
References: <20020327033733.POOG24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d558$1effbf40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I'm quite comfortable that I have the file sets, but as far as the original
diskettes ... I don't know.  I recall that I've got v1.0.  That was on only
one diskette, IIRC.

That will easily fit in a zip file and fly via the 'net, I'd imagine.

That will leave me some time to hunt for the originals.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))


> > From: Richard Erlacher 
>
> > Well, I may be able to help you out here.  I've got TB and a book or two.
>
> Thanks, Dick!  I just found the manual, so all I really need are the disks,
> or copies of them.  Let me know how much to send you, or if you prefer to
> email 'em that'll work too.
>
> Glen
> 0/0
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 00:47:18 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: NIB: OS/2 Warp Connect, red spine
Message-ID: 

Y'all,
  I was at a thrift store this evening and they have the aforementioned
still in the shrinkwrap for $10.  Oh, yeah, it's the CD-ROM, not
floppies (did Connect even come in floppies?).  I already have the blue
version, so if anybody wants it for $15 + shipping, I'll go get it.
First ask gets it.   Don't forget, it weighs a couple of pounds....
Shipping will likely be $6-$10 stateside.
  That's right, I intend to make the lordly sum of about $4 for the trip
into town.  :)

	Doc


From adair at adair-international.com  Wed Mar 27 01:05:08 2002
From: adair at adair-international.com (ADAIR)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: AN/UYK62(V)2
Message-ID: <3CA16F24.5060605@adair-international.com>

Could anyone please inform me of the following item:

Item: Data Processing Set, military specs
Model :1666B
Military Designation: AN/UYK64(V)2
Manufacturer: ROLM
Measurement: 2 x 3 ft
Weight: 120 lbs

RGDS/ YC


From drhouse at abac.com  Wed Mar 27 02:19:10 2002
From: drhouse at abac.com (Don Robert House)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Teletype Equipment in Denver
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Mike,

Is Eric Smith still around?
How can I get the equipment from Denver?  I have a cargo trailer and 
truck but would need information.

Thanks for any information!
Don




>It sounded like maybe Tom had some additional stuff for you.
>
>In any case, I encourage you to call Eric tomorrow (or even now!) to find
>out exactly what his plans are.
>
>-Mike
>
>
>On Sun, 14 Oct 2001, Don Robert House wrote:
>
>>  Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:05:22 -0700
>>  From: Don Robert House 
>>  To: Mike Cheponis 
>>  Subject: Re: Fwd: Eric Smith asked me to post this
>>
>>  Well I am still puzzled.  The four small boxes he picked up in
>>  Jamestown New York are the items I am hoping to pick up in
>>  Bakersfield.
>>
>  > Don
>  >
>  > >I'm pretty sure he had to leave quite a few things in Colorado, so I
>>  >don't think he will be stopping in Bakersfield on this trip.  The uhaul
>>  >guy did some eyeballing of the load and, even with all the chicago stuff
>>  >unloaded, still thought what was left was overloading the truck.  (!).  I
>>  >don't think he got yelled at, I think they just replaced the springs.
>>  >
>>  >There is A Plan to go get that Colorado stuff plus some other stuff in
>>  >the next couple of months, tho, as I understand it.
>>  >
>>  >-Mike
>  > >
>  > >On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Don Robert House wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 20:35:58 -0700
>>  >>  From: Don Robert House 
>>  >>  To: Christian Fandt , Mike Cheponis 
>>,
>>  >>       Tom Kleinschmidt 
>>  >>  Subject: Re: Fwd: Eric Smith asked me to post this
>>  >>
>>  >>  I sure hope I get enough warning when he is coming to Bakersfield.
>>  >>
>  > >>  Don

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
Don Robert House, N.S.E.
Curator, NADCOMM
North American Data Communications Museum
3841 Reche Road
Fallbrook, CA 92028-3810
760-723-9943 Office
760-723-9984 FAX
URL: http://www.nadcomm.org
e-mail: drhouse@abac.com

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Wed Mar 27 03:15:11 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:49:16 CST."
             <20020326.184919.-44981793.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> 
Message-ID: <200203270915.JAA30180@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

jeff.kaneko@juno.com said:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:54:13 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman
>  writes:
> > I was talking about the DEC BASIC that made BASIC famous,
> > the BASIC from TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 on the DECsystem-10.
> > 
> > > VAX BASIC V3.8-000
> > 
> > Looks like some kind of vacuum cleaner to me...
> 
> Hey, as far as I'm concerned, it isn't BASIC unless it's
> BASIC-PLUS running under RSTS/e.

Just been getting some old BASIC-PLUS games transferred to my
PDP-11 emulator running RSTS/E...good fun...just need an
adventure in basic.



-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From mhstein at canada.com  Wed Mar 27 03:27:45 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Phi-Deck Manual
Message-ID: <01C1D547.C6978E60@mse-d03>

Anybody need/want a tech manual for the digital group
Phi-Deck Cassette Storage System (Controller and Deck)?

mike


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 03:36:50 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: 
References: <001d01c1d4ca$88c3cc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 26, 2 06:31:28 am
Message-ID: <3CA1A0C2.8815.2CDC66D@localhost>


> > line goes to which address pin on the SRAM, only that it goes to an address

> The same applies (of course) to data lines. Provided each data lines goes 
> to _a_ data pin on the SRAM, it'll work. The data lines are bidirectional 
> on these chips, so if a bit is written on a particular line it'll be read 
> out on the same line. It doesn't matter what the RAM manufacturer called 
> it -- all data pins are equivalent on the chip.

Yep, true. The only situation I know where this has any
impact is if you use an in circuit RAM logger/emulator,
which picks the data from the RAM socket and of course
in all outputs assume that the lines are in 'standard'
use.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:06 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA13BD7.A77CA0B0@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020910.02455a98@192.168.1.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327101407.0249ad10@192.168.1.1>

At 03:26 27/03/2002, you wrote:

>Adrian Vickers wrote:
>
> > The pro market was sort of catered for by the Thor, started as a QL in a
> > big beige box with a beige monitor and XT-style keyboard. It moved on quite
> > rapidly, eventually becoming an accomplished 68000 (not 68008) machine with
> > an improved OS (SMS/Q - still alive & well today). Unfortunately, the Thor
> > was too late - the IBM PC had already begun to claim dominance, primarily
> > due to the rapidly emerging clone mark
>
>Lets not forget the 68008 was a slow chip because all instructions on
>the 68000 was 2 or 4 or 6 bytes long and the 68008 only had a 8 bit
>buss.

Quite correct. It actually makes it an ideal hobbyist processor - simpler 
bus interface, etc. It was also quite a bit cheaper, IIRC, than the 68000 
when new.

>The 68000 I think too used a 8 x clock so the real clock speed is
>a lot slower than it seems.

I'm not sure about clock speeds. I'm pretty sure the QL's is 4MHz or 
thereabouts, BICBW.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From alan.pearson at cramer.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:33 2002
From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: 

As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS? 

Basically I'd like to be able to use my "normal" AL account 
for messing about with but occasionally "su" to SYSTEM to get
at a protected file or directory. All the FAQs and manual pages
I've come across so far point to SPAWNing a new process and then
changing the privileges (eg SET PROC/PRIV=SYSPRV), which defeats
the object of the exercise since the "AL" account needs system
privileges in order to do the SET PROC/PRIV in the first place :-)

At the moment I'm using an ST running UNITERM hooked up to a 
3100/30's console port so I'm stuck with just the one login session
at a time - occasionally I'd like to be able to flip over to SYSTEM
without having to mess about with logging out of AL and into SYSTEM
and back :-)  Any ideas?

Cheers
Al.

From alan.pearson at cramer.com  Wed Mar 27 04:38:30 2002
From: alan.pearson at cramer.com (Alan Pearson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: 

> For those of us that were serious about computing, that didn't have access
> to the kind of money a PC or Mac cost, the QL was a godsend. 

Too right, I still remember the day I wandered past Currys 
in Banbury and saw they'd repriced QL's at ?199! Wandered 
home in a fret thinking "can I afford it?"... agonised over
it for a week or so then bought it anyway :-) Best box I ever
bought - within a week or so I had the Lattice assembler and 
a copy of the Technical Manual and was digging around QDOS, 
and soon after that I'd got a 3.5" disk drive (whoa, a whole
"1440 sectors" on one disk!) and a C compiler. That was it, 
my metamorphosis into a complete "dalek" was complete :-)

Al.

From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Wed Mar 27 05:03:32 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706650F@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>



Alan Pearson wrote:
>At the moment I'm using an ST running UNITERM hooked up to a 
>3100/30's console port so I'm stuck with just the one login session
>at a time - occasionally I'd like to be able to flip over to SYSTEM
>without having to mess about with logging out of AL and into SYSTEM
>and back :-)  Any ideas?

Assuming you have DECnet installed you can do:
	$ SET HOST 0
and log in as SYSTEM.

I run my VAxstation the same way - almost
everything I do, I do with the unprived
user account. Occasionally I fire up another
terminal to do some stuff with SYSTEM.
To be honest, once it's all set up, it
doesn't need much tending to, so there's not
too much need for SYSTEM access.

What sort of things are you doing that
need SYSTEM access ?

Antonio

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 05:17:00 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327021503.02462ae8@192.168.1.1>
References: <3C9F83CF.18523.637C150A@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA1B83C.10603.3297A22@localhost>

> > > This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
> >Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
> >different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
> >OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
> >and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
> >MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers.

> Hmm...

> It *was* revolutionary for 1984, this is true.

And is still one of the best Basic around.

> However, QDos is not a 
> /true/ multitasking OS; it relied on co-operative time-slicing. So, one 
> badly written task could hog the whole machine (not uncommon...).

Well, true multitasking is as soon as one can have severale
tasks running quasi parallel. Cooperative or not doesn't matter.
In fact I'm a big fan of cooperative system - way less OS overhead
in terms of CPU usage.

> SuperBASIC was - still is - fantastic. It far outstripped ALL versions of 
> BASIC available at the time, and (IMNSHO) was not really superceded until 
> Visual Basic 2 or 3 - and even then, VB's main improvement was the forms 
> designer. OTOH, the "window" facility was vastly over-rated. Unfortunately, 
> however, it wasn't possible to harness the tasking system from within 
> SuperBASIC - that required machine code.

With the 'Pointer Environment' (?) the QL was way ahead.

> >And adding a disc controler wasn't that expansive (720K 3.5"), if
> >your need did ourtgrow the microdrives.

> Erm, it did back then... A basic single-disc system (3.5", 720K) + 
> interface cost circa GBP400. The first Winchester disc systems (5MB) cost 
> over GBP1000 when first available.

Which was a total rip of in both cases. Building a FDC for the
QL bus was straight foreward aut of the design handbook.


> > > I found out that it cost APPLE $100 ??? to make the $500 ??? floppy
> > > system for their computer reading the history of the apple from a web
> > > site.
> >That's called best bussines practice :))

> Capitalism: Charge what the market will stand - no more, no less.

Always charge a little bit more, otherwise you don't know
if you're not too cheap.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 05:17:00 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327023947.023fd138@192.168.1.1>
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA1B83C.10514.3297A13@localhost>


> >In any case, unreliability was still a problem. And I, for one, am not
> >going to use a computer where I can't be certain of being able to read my
> >files back again.

> I'll happily relieve you of any old QL stuff you still have...

I guess we're all happy to help.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com  Wed Mar 27 05:57:56 2002
From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3750A8FD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>

> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:54:13 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman
>  writes:
> > I was talking about the DEC BASIC that made BASIC famous,
> > the BASIC from TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 on the DECsystem-10.
> > 
> > > VAX BASIC V3.8-000
> > 
> > Looks like some kind of vacuum cleaner to me...
> 
> Hey, as far as I'm concerned, it isn't BASIC unless it's
> BASIC-PLUS running under RSTS/e.
> 
> Sorry, you guys resurrected and old (and very fond)
> memory . . . 

Hey, Jeff, it's ok... someone will eventually post

MY COMPUTER LOVES ME WHEN I SPEAK DARTMOUTH BASIC

;)

From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 06:58:01 2002
From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: NIB: OS/2 Warp Connect, red spine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327075533.00a5c8f0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

At 12:47 AM 3/27/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Don't forget, it weighs a couple of pounds....
>Shipping will likely be $6-$10 stateside

It takes longer to get there but it would be eligible for Media Mail

A two pound package shipped anywhere in US would be $1.78



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 07:03:56 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: 68008 Speed (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA13BD7.A77CA0B0@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA1D14C.14354.38B60F0@localhost>

> > The pro market was sort of catered for by the Thor, started as a QL in a
> > big beige box with a beige monitor and XT-style keyboard. It moved on quite
> > rapidly, eventually becoming an accomplished 68000 (not 68008) machine with
> > an improved OS (SMS/Q - still alive & well today). Unfortunately, the Thor
> > was too late - the IBM PC had already begun to claim dominance, primarily
> > due to the rapidly emerging clone mark
 
> Lets not forget the 68008 was a slow chip because all instructions on
> the 68000 was 2 or 4 or 6 bytes long and the 68008 only had a 8 bit
> buss.

Right, still the difference wasn't that big. Basicly all word (16 Bit)
acces times had a 4 cycle penalty (including the opcode fetch) against
the 68000, and als long (32 Bit) had a 8 cycle slowdown. Now it depended
heavy on the kind of programm you had. For most common instruction
types with memory access 12 to 50% more cycles where needed. So in
worst case a 68008 did bring only 65% of a straight 68000. In praxis
the QL was about 20%-25% slower than an Atari ST (Keep in mind, the
QL was 7.5 MHz while the Atari was 8 MHz - that's aleady 6% less).

> The 68000 I think too used a 8 x clock so the real clock speed is
> a lot slower than it seems. 

Which still doesn't matter, than it's the same over the whole
family. And I think noone on this list is unexperianced enough
to judge just by the frequengy of the used oscilator.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 07:07:36 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3CA1D228.28388.38EBBD3@localhost>

> > For those of us that were serious about computing, that didn't have access
> > to the kind of money a PC or Mac cost, the QL was a godsend. 

> Too right, I still remember the day I wandered past Currys 
> in Banbury and saw they'd repriced QL's at £199! Wandered 
> home in a fret thinking "can I afford it?"... agonised over
> it for a week or so then bought it anyway :-) Best box I ever
> bought - within a week or so I had the Lattice assembler and 
> a copy of the Technical Manual and was digging around QDOS, 
> and soon after that I'd got a 3.5" disk drive (whoa, a whole
> "1440 sectors" on one disk!) and a C compiler. That was it, 
> my metamorphosis into a complete "dalek" was complete :-)

:)) I like that ... who cares about Borg !

:)
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au  Wed Mar 27 07:35:18 2002
From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020328003205.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>

At 10:16 AM 27/03/2002 +0000, Alan Pearson wrote:
>As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
>of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?

There are a number of possibilities.

1) Install DECnet (for this application you don't need a licence) and then 
execute the command

         $ set host 0

You will get a Username: prompt and you can log in as SYSTEM. If you use 
the command

         $ set host 0 /log=filename

your session will get logged to the file 'filename'. This is the way I've 
always solved this issue.

2) There are a number of programs (GLOGIN, BECOME are just two) which allow 
you to become someone else. Generally these are used from the SYSTEM 
account to "login" as another user.

3) I suspect that someone will have created a SU program as well - this 
isn't too hard to write (not that I'm volunteering).

Hope this helps.

Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
                      | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
                      | air, the sky would be painted green" 


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 07:39:52 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: <001d01c1d4ca$88c3cc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 26, 2 06:31:28 am <3CA1A0C2.8815.2CDC66D@localhost>
Message-ID: <001401c1d594$e0022e80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

A lot of manufacturers have thought it "clever" to rearrange the address and
data lines, on an EPROM, for example, in order to obfuscate their firmware.
It's not rocket science to trace the CPU<=>EPROM hookup, though it's also
surprising how few people are willing to take the 10 minutes to do that.  You
can get some surprises with RAM, however, and particularly if you are trying
to "program" a battery-backed RAM for purposes of emulating an EPROM, since
the order of the addresses and data normally doesn't matter at all.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


>
> > > line goes to which address pin on the SRAM, only that it goes to an
address
>
> > The same applies (of course) to data lines. Provided each data lines goes
> > to _a_ data pin on the SRAM, it'll work. The data lines are bidirectional
> > on these chips, so if a bit is written on a particular line it'll be read
> > out on the same line. It doesn't matter what the RAM manufacturer called
> > it -- all data pins are equivalent on the chip.
>
> Yep, true. The only situation I know where this has any
> impact is if you use an in circuit RAM logger/emulator,
> which picks the data from the RAM socket and of course
> in all outputs assume that the lines are in 'standard'
> use.
>
> Gruss
> H.
>
> --
> VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> http://www.vcfe.org/
>
>


From RCini at congressfinancial.com  Wed Mar 27 07:44:17 2002
From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Trip to Pasadena, CA
Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A454@MAIL10>

Hello, all:

	In mid-April I'm visiting one of my company's branch offices in
Pasadena, CA . I'll only be there for a few days, but I'd like
recommendations as to nearby "computing" things to see. I already booked a
tour of the JPL (not classic but interesting enough :-)).

	Any thoughts?

Rich

==========================
Richard A. Cini, Jr.
Congress Financial Corporation
1133 Avenue of the Americas
30th Floor
New York, NY 10036
(212) 545-4402
(212) 840-6259 (facsimile)


From RCini at congressfinancial.com  Wed Mar 27 07:46:16 2002
From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: OT: Pal m programming book recommendations
Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A455@MAIL10>

Hello, all:

	I'm looking to start a software project for the Palm platform and
was wondering if anyone on the list had recommendations for a good beginning
to intermediate book. Amazon lists quite a few but I haven't gone to the
physical bookstore yet to preview them.

	Thanks.

Rich

==========================
Richard A. Cini, Jr.
Congress Financial Corporation
1133 Avenue of the Americas
30th Floor
New York, NY 10036
(212) 545-4402
(212) 840-6259 (facsimile)


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 07:48:31 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
References:  <02Mar27.080325est.119444@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <001e01c1d596$151e4300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Unfortunately, the generalized tendency to "beat up" BASIC as a language for
micros, back in the late '70's and '80's, by those promoting the newer
"block-structured" languages, makes people look askance at work done in BASIC.
I had a partner who was quite adept at BASIC programming and put together a
very functional mail order/inventory control/accounts-receivable/payable
package in about a week.  Within a second week, consisting of probably five
visits in seven days, he got it working very well in-situ, and our customer
liked it so well, that he bought two computers (which we were pressed to
provide, not being in the retail businsess) just to support his then growing
business.

I've found basic to be a handy tool, and, though it doesn't easily support
programming in the large, it does allow getting things done here and now.  It
has lots of features, most of which I haven't ever been pressed to use, and
can do anything your computer can support, up to a point.  If only I had a
dime for each time I used it to do a quick calculation ...

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))


> >You can buy the latest incarnation of Turbo BASIC, called Power
> >Basic.  It's pretty neat.
>
> I've been using PowerBasic since '90 or so and really like
> it.  The later versions include things that the first version, which
> is what I have, did not.  I've written fairly complex
> database/accounting packages with it and those packages were roughly
> 1/7 the size of a similar package written using the application
> generator in Foxbase or similar.
>
> Jeff
> --
>                       Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>                                 http://www.cchaven.com
>                   http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
>
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 07:48:57 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: <62.1d1592e1.29d28e24@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327084857.008125f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 09:53 PM 3/26/02 EST, Paxton wrote:
>In a message dated 3/26/02 5:47:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>ernestls@attbi.com writes:
> 
> 
> What size floppy disks does the HP 9114B drive use? Is it 720k or 1.44 meg?
> 
>
> 
> To quote the 1988 HP Catalog "the HP9114B provides up to 710 Kbytes of
>formatted capacity in a lightweight, battery-operated package. The 3.5"
>disk drive reads, writes and initializes double-sided media in both
>single-sided and double-sided formats.

  SOME of HP 3.5" drives would support high density 1.44mb disk but the 9114 would not. In fact, I haven't been able to get the 9114 to work at all with any 1.44Mb disks.  They might work if they were bulk erased first, I haven't tried that. But standard 720k disks work fine in them. I've found the same to be true in the 9121 and several other HP 3.5" drives. In fact, IIRC the 9122 C (emphasize C) is the only drive that I'll found that will use the 1.44mb disks.

  The capacity of the disk is dependent on the machine it's being used with and what optional parameters that you give the Format (or Initialize) command.  It's generally about 710k but on the HP-41 it's only about 270k due to the small size of the 41 memory and limited disk DIR, FAT (actually LIF) and other disk info that the 41 can hold.

   Joe


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 07:52:40 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020326181621.00800850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327085240.0081a100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Joe wrote:
>
>> At 05:58 PM 3/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
>> >On 2002.03.26 12:55 Hans Franke wrote:
>> >
>> >> This construction reminded me of
>> >> 1970 style 'inteligent' terminals where screen buffer was more like a
>> >> code of some sort to be executed by the diplay processor which was a
>> >> micro code engine itself.
>> >And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
>> >Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
>> >keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the
>> >Terminals where you can see that Tektronix is well known for
>> >oscilloscopes...
>>
>>   If you think that's strange you should have seen the Tektronix 8051
>                                                     Do you mean   4051?


   Yes.  Sorry.


     Joe


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 07:53:18 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: 68008 Speed (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
References: <3CA1D14C.14354.38B60F0@localhost>
Message-ID: <002701c1d596$c0369da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Yes ... the TMS 9900 used a 48MHz oscillator, IIRC.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Franke" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:03 AM
Subject: 68008 Speed (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))


> > > The pro market was sort of catered for by the Thor, started as a QL in a

<
> the QL was about 20%-25% slower than an Atari ST (Keep in mind, the
> QL was 7.5 MHz while the Atari was 8 MHz - that's aleady 6% less).
>
> > The 68000 I think too used a 8 x clock so the real clock speed is
> > a lot slower than it seems.
>
> Which still doesn't matter, than it's the same over the whole
> family. And I think noone on this list is unexperianced enough
> to judge just by the frequengy of the used oscilator.
>
> Gruss
> H.
>
> --
> VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> http://www.vcfe.org/
>
>


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 08:12:03 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: RS232 (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3CA0784C.14979.67371CD5@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 26, 2 01:31:56 pm
Message-ID: <3CA1E143.23420.3C9BD99@localhost>

> > > > Well, Sinclair sold it and called it QL.
> > > > A 68008, running at 8 (?) MHz, (almost) Real Keyboard (at least as
> > > > good as most PC keyboards in the $10 range), Reak Memory (128K, as
> > > That does not make it a 'real keyboard'. In fact the QL keyboard I used 
> > > was pretty unpleasant. My QL was obtained surplus as the bottom half only 
> > > (no keyboard), so I kludged on a matrix of switches from my junk box. 
> > > It's one of the few QLs with useable keys IMHO...
> > maybe, still you could work quite well.

> Well, I found the QL keyboard to be very unpleasant to use...

Well, let's agree on that it was not anything we would have payed
a lot of money for :=)

> > > You forgot to mention that the tape drives were very unreliable if used 
> > > continuousely (those endless loop tapes would stretch and/or jam).
> > Right, but you could manufacture your own - using regular music
> > cassette tape of acceptrable quality did work quite well.

> Err, a serious business computer (which is what the QL was sold as in the 
> UK, at least initially) does not require you to make your own media.

Over here it was ment as high class home computer, promising
to be even usefull for real applications.

> In any case, unreliability was still a problem. And I, for one, am not 
> going to use a computer where I can't be certain of being able to read my 
> files back again.

I wasn't the big QL geek, but as far as I used the machine, the
drives where reliable enough.

> > > The 
> > > serial ports were broken as designed (I've looked at the schematics. The 
> > > RxD lines from the 2 ports are just ORed together -- the external devices 
> > > _must_ observe the handshake lines!), and
> > Which every _real_ device should do. That's what the handshake
> > lines are for. Always going for the least common ground isn't

Tony, as much as I apreciate your knowledge, now you
shoot yourself in the foot.

> Absolutely WRONG! Have you read the RS232 standard? 

Yes I did, and I couldn't find any Note that they are just
funky add ons to till the sepc document.

> The handshake lines are _not_ there for flow control. After all, the 
> RS232 interface was designed to link a terminal to a (dumb) modem. The 2 
> devices that need to perform flow control are the terminal and the 
> computer connected to the other modem. But the handshake lines are _not_ 
> transmitted down the phone line and thus can't be used (officially) for 
> flow control.

Now you are talking about an end to end transmission, which
has NOTHING to do with RS232. RS232 defines the layout of
a serial line connection, and the behaviour of controll lines.

The interface is only defined for the connection between two
devices. And only between them. Whatever one of these devices,
like a modem, does with the data or not, is not part of it.
Of course the interface is especialy suited for communication
devices (modem) and got additional support therefor. Nonetheless
it's only about the communication between two pices of equippment.

The controllines are ment to tell the other sinde about states
like data can be accepted or not etc. Let's just take said modem
and terminal - flowcontroll here is to be made by using the hand
shake lines. As for example if the modem can't send the data fast
enough it needs a way to tell that the terminal has to wait.

> Of course everyvbody uses them for that, at least on local connections. 
> But no device should _require_ them. It's one thing to allow them to be 
> used to prevent data loss if too much data is sent too fast. It's quite 
> another to require them to be used in all circumstances to prevent data 
> ending up in the wrong place.

This sounds to me like asking car manufacturers to build their
wheels according to the request that the car should still work
fine if not all nuts are tightened.

> An example. Suppose you have a 30cps printer with a 9600baud serial 
> interface. It's reasonable to use one of the handshake lines to indicate 
> the buffer is full and that the host should stop sending data. But 
> equally, it should be possible to ignore the handshake line and only send 
> 10 characters per second (slowed down by software on the host, ignoring 
> all handshake lines, just leaving large gaps between characters), without 
> data loss. The handshake lines may (incorrectly) be used for flow 
> control, they should not be _required_ in all circumstances.

Flow controll in the sense of RS232 is only about the communication
between the two connected devices. 


> > the way to do. 
> > > that the network was similar to the kludge used on the Spectrum.
> > Jep, but it worked. it is always easy to say XYZ is crap, not
> > as good as something else at 100 times the price. Remember, in

> Well, I would rather pay a little more money and get something that's 
> useable. Spending money on something that doesn't do what I want is 
> called 'wasting money'.

Agreed - just the QL did what expected.

> > > The QL was, alas, as typical Sinclair design. Built to a price, and it 
> > > shows. It may have been reasonable to do that for a home computer where 
> > > people couldn't/wouldn't afford anything better, but not for something 
> > > that claimed to be a business computer.
> > At this scale, a Mac of the same time would also not qualify as
> > a business system ... not even cursor keys nor a numpad nor any
> > kind of interfase ... etc. pp.

> Hmm.. I regard the lack of reliable mass storage and useable serial ports 
> (and no other I/O at all) to be rather more serious than the lack of a 
> number pad (which, IIRC, was available as an option for the Mac).

Still, no real Disk drive (only the real weired Mac Drive,
not compatible to anything else, no hard disk (at a price
where one could get a CP/M System with HD), no accessable
system buss, no nothing. Only one serial port, and that's
it. Na, I didn't like the Mac (from a hardware point) back
then, an it didn't change over the years - the original Macs
are cloesed black box crap.

> > > > with Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database and Business Graphics.
> > > > And all together at about 900 Mark (back than ~250 GBP). Lower
> > > It sold for \pounds 399 in the UK.
> > At the beginning ? I'm just asking, because I don't remember the
> I think so. 

Well, at 400 GBP the QL was quite overpriced.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 08:19:18 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Trip to Pasadena, CA
In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A454@MAIL10>
Message-ID: <3CA1E2F6.1907.3D0616E@localhost>

> 	In mid-April I'm visiting one of my company's branch offices in
> Pasadena, CA . I'll only be there for a few days, but I'd like
> recommendations as to nearby "computing" things to see. I already booked a
> tour of the JPL (not classic but interesting enough :-)).

In the last weekend they have a thing called TRW swap.
Not very exiteing ... don't go there, just let the stuff
for the locals.

Servus
Hans

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 08:30:49 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: SWTPc 6800 update
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020326181717.00801d90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1E5A9.902.3DAED80@localhost>

> >  >RAM, serial card, CPU card, and disk controller.  Overall, a pretty
> >>nice setup..

> >    OK don't rub it in! :-/

> 	Rubbing it in would've been mentioning that the exact same 
> KIM-1 setup I just picked up for near nothing had an identical twin 
> on eBay go for $400..

Somehow I get the impression that you are not a very sensitive friend  :))

Trotzdem viel Spass
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From tony.eros at machm.org  Wed Mar 27 08:45:33 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: Trip to Pasadena, CA
In-Reply-To: <3CA1E2F6.1907.3D0616E@localhost>
References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A454@MAIL10>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020327094358.02d445d0@mail.njd.concentric.com>

I'm going to be in Los Angeles -- will there be a TRW swap this 
weekend?  If so, does anyone have directions?

-- Tony

At 03:19 PM 3/27/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> >       In mid-April I'm visiting one of my company's branch offices in
> > Pasadena, CA . I'll only be there for a few days, but I'd like
> > recommendations as to nearby "computing" things to see. I already booked a
> > tour of the JPL (not classic but interesting enough :-)).
>
>In the last weekend they have a thing called TRW swap.
>Not very exiteing ... don't go there, just let the stuff
>for the locals.
>
>Servus
>Hans
>
>--
>VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
>http://www.vcfe.org/


From saku at setala.net  Wed Mar 27 08:58:37 2002
From: saku at setala.net (Saku Setala)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
References:  <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020326192921.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <4.3.2.7.2.20020327153025.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>
Message-ID: <002a01c1d59f$e0e42910$12cdf83e@elisaa9e55ungl>

I have been also looking for this item, so if anybody willing to sell/swap
one in Finland or nearby, please contact..

Regards,

Saku


----- Original Message -----
From: "Huw Davies" 
To: ; 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:30 AM
Subject: RE: DEC Hardware design available


> At 07:43 PM 26/03/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> >   Heh...does that mean you'd sell yours for US$49?
>
> Maybe, or swap it for something on my collections list....
>
> Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au
>                       | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
>                       | air, the sky would be painted green"
>


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 27 09:32:44 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: 68008 Speed (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
References: <3CA1D14C.14354.38B60F0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA1E61C.A072D040@jetnet.ab.ca>

Hans Franke wrote:

> Which still doesn't matter, than it's the same over the whole
> family. And I think noone on this list is unexperianced enough
> to judge just by the frequengy of the used oscilator.

True ... but nobody every states the memory cycle speed and width the
real limiting factor. A 2 Mhz 6809 could have been a bit faster than the
68008. ( A big fan of the 6809 and OS/9 for it)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 09:41:05 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Alan Pearson wrote:

> As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
> of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?

> At the moment I'm using an ST running UNITERM hooked up to a
> 3100/30's console port so I'm stuck with just the one login session
> at a time - occasionally I'd like to be able to flip over to SYSTEM
> without having to mess about with logging out of AL and into SYSTEM
> and back :-)  Any ideas?

  Is there a "screen" app for VMS?  Screen allows you to use "virtual
screens" - that is have several sessions going on one terminal.  You
page through them by hotkey.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 09:48:27 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: OS/2 Warp Connect
Message-ID: 

  That's been claimed.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 09:58:12 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:46 2005
Subject: NIB: OS/2 Warp Connect, red spine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327075533.00a5c8f0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote:

> At 12:47 AM 3/27/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >Don't forget, it weighs a couple of pounds....
> >Shipping will likely be $6-$10 stateside
>
> It takes longer to get there but it would be eligible for Media Mail
>
> A two pound package shipped anywhere in US would be $1.78

  Duh....
  Thanks, Gene!  Sometimes my last two brain cells are very far
apart....

	Doc


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 10:20:26 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <01C1D1F1.32E24E20@mse-d03>
Message-ID: <3CA1FF5A.8571.43F461A@localhost>

>> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
>> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
>> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
 
>> D'oh.
 
>> Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
>> for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
>> like that.

> That's it all right; dual 5" floppies, 16K SRAM, OS in ROM, RS232 
> & Parallel, and lots of optional modules for developing, emulating
> & programming R6500 stuff & the R6500/1 single-chip micros.

Ok, hee it goes:

---
Rockwell's SYSTEM 65

 SYSTEM 65 is a new easy to use, powerful, complete
development system for the R6500 family of
microcomputers. The basic configuration includes
two built-in, mini-floppy disk drives, 16K bytes of user
memory and 16 K bytes of resident operating system.

 Monitor commands are self-prompting whenever
memory, peripheral, or disk file assignment is requiread.
Text editor provides line, string, and character editing
functions A resident two-pass assembler and dynamic
debug package complete the operating system. Both
source and object code may be maintained in memory
for fast editing, assembling, and checkout. Since the
total monitor, editor, debug and assembler are resident
in ROM, 100% of the disk storage and drive utilization
is available to the user.

 The mini-floppy diskettes may be used as storage for
source and object code and documentation. Each
diskette has the capacity for 78K bytes of information
in a maximum of 60 files.

 SYSTEM 65 supports a vareity of terminals with
serial data from 100 baud to 9600 baud. Connectors
are provided for both RS-232 C and current loop interfaceing.
Reader ON/OFF signals and the RTS/CTS control
signals are standard. Included is a parallel port provideing
automatic control to high speed printers, such as
Diablo, Centronics and Tally.


And Rockwell offers these options to
SYSTEM 65:

- PL/65 High-Level Language
- USER 65 in-circuit emulation option
- PROM Programmer Mofule, for programming a
  2704/2708/2716/2758 PROM device from the front
  panel socket
- R6500/1 Personality option, for developing with the
  R6500/1 single-chip microcomputer
- 16Kx8 Static RAM Modules
- PROM/ROM Module accepting 2316/2332 ROM or
  2708/2716/2758 PROM devices
- Wire-wrap Design Prototype Module
- Extender Card for circuit probing

---
The page continues with a description of PL/65. The very
next page describes the AIM 65

Well, it is realy a great good feeling having put up all
the shelveing and filled them with books :) Amazing what
one can find by just looking around...

BTW: the next thing I learned by peeking into the LCE
(Low Cost Emulator) Manual for the R6500/1 Family is that
this unit is basicly a complete SYSTEM 65 with the probe
and 6500/* Personality module... AFAI can tell from the
LCE manuals, the SYSTEM 65 box is fited with two system
busses - one for the host system, and one for possible
add ons for the target system ... so you could not only
ICE the target system, but also add on hardware liek RAM,
ROM, or even a disk system without putting it onto your
PCB. What a nice idea.

I guess I need a SYSTEM 65...

Marvin, I hope this was of some help to you.

Servus
Hans









--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From marvin at rain.org  Wed Mar 27 10:25:02 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: TRW Swap Meet, was Re: Trip to Pasadena, CA
References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A454@MAIL10> <5.0.2.1.0.20020327094358.02d445d0@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1F25E.5B5A56ED@rain.org>


Yes, TRW is this weekend from about 7:00am to 11:00am. If you are going
to be there, I'll be at space G-24 so feel free to drop by and say hi!!!

The swap meet is basically at the corner of Marine and Aviation. The
directions from one of the local sites are:

The TRW Swap meet is located in Manhattan Beach, on the Northwest corner
of Marine Ave. and Aviation Blvd. South of LAX, West of the 405 Fwy.
Take
the 105 Fwy West to Aviation Blvd., South on Aviation 2.5 miles to
Marine. Talk-in 145.32, down 600 kHz, PL=2A (114.8).

My sense of direction is terrible, but I would think these directions
are to the old location. If I am right, the new location is located
*Southeast* of that corner. In either case, if you are at the corner of
Marine and Aviation, you will see enough activity to guide you in :).

Tony Eros wrote:
> 
> I'm going to be in Los Angeles -- will there be a TRW swap this
> weekend?  If so, does anyone have directions?
> 
> -- Tony
> 
> At 03:19 PM 3/27/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> > >       In mid-April I'm visiting one of my company's branch offices in
> > > Pasadena, CA . I'll only be there for a few days, but I'd like
> > > recommendations as to nearby "computing" things to see. I already booked a
> > > tour of the JPL (not classic but interesting enough :-)).
> >
> >In the last weekend they have a thing called TRW swap.
> >Not very exiteing ... don't go there, just let the stuff
> >for the locals.
> >
> >Servus
> >Hans
> >
> >--
> >VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> >http://www.vcfe.org/

From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com  Wed Mar 27 10:33:29 2002
From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE0978C8@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]
> Sent: 27 March 2002 15:41
> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'
> Subject: Re: More VMS 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Alan Pearson wrote:
> 
> > As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
> > of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?
> 
> > At the moment I'm using an ST running UNITERM hooked up to a
> > 3100/30's console port so I'm stuck with just the one login session
> > at a time - occasionally I'd like to be able to flip over to SYSTEM
> > without having to mess about with logging out of AL and into SYSTEM
> > and back :-)  Any ideas?
> 
>   Is there a "screen" app for VMS?  Screen allows you to use "virtual
> screens" - that is have several sessions going on one terminal.  You
> page through them by hotkey.

Yup. NDC Multisessions does an excellent job of that, but it's not
cheap......

a

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 10:33:37 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <000e01c1d5ad$26ab3ee0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

I happen to use MS QB4.5/dos at work for test systems. This version
supports all the high level structures and variable scopes that HLL like
Pascal or C would.  It's NOT a weak light weight BASIC.  It does produce
fast, low ram load executeables (.exe) for dos environments and has
proven very robust and easy to use.

My beef with BASIC is especially the older versions with GOTO laden
code can easily be a bowl of long pasta to decode.  However, I've seen
people do same with Fortran, ALGOL, Pascal and even C.

Allison
{my native language is ASM.}

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher 
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org 
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))


>Unfortunately, the generalized tendency to "beat up" BASIC as a language
for
>micros, back in the late '70's and '80's, by those promoting the newer
>"block-structured" languages, makes people look askance at work done in
BASIC.
>I had a partner who was quite adept at BASIC programming and put together a
>very functional mail order/inventory control/accounts-receivable/payable
>package in about a week.  Within a second week, consisting of probably five
>visits in seven days, he got it working very well in-situ, and our customer
>liked it so well, that he bought two computers (which we were pressed to
>provide, not being in the retail businsess) just to support his then
growing
>business.
>
>I've found basic to be a handy tool, and, though it doesn't easily support
>programming in the large, it does allow getting things done here and now.
It
>has lots of features, most of which I haven't ever been pressed to use, and
>can do anything your computer can support, up to a point.  If only I had a
>dime for each time I used it to do a quick calculation ...
>
>Dick
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Hellige" 
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:28 AM
>Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
>
>
>> >You can buy the latest incarnation of Turbo BASIC, called Power
>> >Basic.  It's pretty neat.
>>
>> I've been using PowerBasic since '90 or so and really like
>> it.  The later versions include things that the first version, which
>> is what I have, did not.  I've written fairly complex
>> database/accounting packages with it and those packages were roughly
>> 1/7 the size of a similar package written using the application
>> generator in Foxbase or similar.
>>
>> Jeff
>> --
>>                       Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
>>                                 http://www.cchaven.com
>>                   http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
>>
>>
>
>


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 10:39:17 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <002301c1d5ad$f1519a40$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Yes,  If you use a terminal like VT330, 340or later there is 
what VMS calls multisessions.  Some fo the LAT servers
also support this with more common VT220s or VT320s.
I was added late in  VMS 4.mumble and later versions.
This is not decwindows which is GUI based.

What multisession allows is several virtual terminals over several 
virtual circuits using one terminal and physical circuit.  I use it alot.


Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Doc 
To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' 
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: More VMS 


>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Alan Pearson wrote:
>
>> As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
>> of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?
>
>> At the moment I'm using an ST running UNITERM hooked up to a
>> 3100/30's console port so I'm stuck with just the one login session
>> at a time - occasionally I'd like to be able to flip over to SYSTEM
>> without having to mess about with logging out of AL and into SYSTEM
>> and back :-)  Any ideas?
>
>  Is there a "screen" app for VMS?  Screen allows you to use "virtual
>screens" - that is have several sessions going on one terminal.  You
>page through them by hotkey.
>
> Doc
>
>


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Mar 27 10:48:34 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: <3CA1FF5A.8571.43F461A@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA1F7E2.9E552B91@rain.org>


Hans, *thanks* for posting this information!!! Now I'll have some idea
of what to look for when I open up the box again.

BTW, I bought this unit at the TRW swap meet a few years ago. But don't
tell anyone, we don't want other collectors showing up and buying all
the good stuff :). FWIW, interesting things gotten from the TRW swap
meet by myself and others include:

IMSAI System
SOL-20 Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box (don't recall the real name.)
Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box w/ S-100 controller card
Cosmac Elf
Many S-100 cards
Four TRS-80 Model 2 machines
Kim
Rockwell AIM-65
Rockwell System 65
MicroProfessor
Many Multibus Computer cards
BASIS microcomputer
APL S-100 System
Many manuals

Multiple Atari 800 computers and accessories


Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> >> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A google
> >> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system designed
> >> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
> 
> >> D'oh.
> 
> >> Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
> >> for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
> >> like that.
> 
> > That's it all right; dual 5" floppies, 16K SRAM, OS in ROM, RS232
> > & Parallel, and lots of optional modules for developing, emulating
> > & programming R6500 stuff & the R6500/1 single-chip micros.
> 
> Ok, hee it goes:
> 
> ---
> Rockwell's SYSTEM 65
> 
>  SYSTEM 65 is a new easy to use, powerful, complete
> development system for the R6500 family of
> microcomputers. The basic configuration includes
> two built-in, mini-floppy disk drives, 16K bytes of user
> memory and 16 K bytes of resident operating system.
> 
>  Monitor commands are self-prompting whenever
> memory, peripheral, or disk file assignment is requiread.
> Text editor provides line, string, and character editing
> functions A resident two-pass assembler and dynamic
> debug package complete the operating system. Both
> source and object code may be maintained in memory
> for fast editing, assembling, and checkout. Since the
> total monitor, editor, debug and assembler are resident
> in ROM, 100% of the disk storage and drive utilization
> is available to the user.
> 
>  The mini-floppy diskettes may be used as storage for
> source and object code and documentation. Each
> diskette has the capacity for 78K bytes of information
> in a maximum of 60 files.
> 
>  SYSTEM 65 supports a vareity of terminals with
> serial data from 100 baud to 9600 baud. Connectors
> are provided for both RS-232 C and current loop interfaceing.
> Reader ON/OFF signals and the RTS/CTS control
> signals are standard. Included is a parallel port provideing
> automatic control to high speed printers, such as
> Diablo, Centronics and Tally.
> 
> And Rockwell offers these options to
> SYSTEM 65:
> 
> - PL/65 High-Level Language
> - USER 65 in-circuit emulation option
> - PROM Programmer Mofule, for programming a
>   2704/2708/2716/2758 PROM device from the front
>   panel socket
> - R6500/1 Personality option, for developing with the
>   R6500/1 single-chip microcomputer
> - 16Kx8 Static RAM Modules
> - PROM/ROM Module accepting 2316/2332 ROM or
>   2708/2716/2758 PROM devices
> - Wire-wrap Design Prototype Module
> - Extender Card for circuit probing
> 
> ---
> The page continues with a description of PL/65. The very
> next page describes the AIM 65
> 
> Well, it is realy a great good feeling having put up all
> the shelveing and filled them with books :) Amazing what
> one can find by just looking around...
> 
> BTW: the next thing I learned by peeking into the LCE
> (Low Cost Emulator) Manual for the R6500/1 Family is that
> this unit is basicly a complete SYSTEM 65 with the probe
> and 6500/* Personality module... AFAI can tell from the
> LCE manuals, the SYSTEM 65 box is fited with two system
> busses - one for the host system, and one for possible
> add ons for the target system ... so you could not only
> ICE the target system, but also add on hardware liek RAM,
> ROM, or even a disk system without putting it onto your
> PCB. What a nice idea.
> 
> I guess I need a SYSTEM 65...
> 
> Marvin, I hope this was of some help to you.
> 
> Servus
> Hans
> 
> --
> VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> http://www.vcfe.org/

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 10:59:54 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <3CA1F7E2.9E552B91@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3CA2089A.27502.463680A@localhost>

> Hans, *thanks* for posting this information!!! Now I'll have some idea
> of what to look for when I open up the box again.

I'm still willing to offer free storage for said box :)

> BTW, I bought this unit at the TRW swap meet a few years ago. But don't
> tell anyone, we don't want other collectors showing up and buying all
> the good stuff :). FWIW, interesting things gotten from the TRW swap
> meet by myself and others include:

> IMSAI System
> SOL-20 Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box (don't recall the real name.)
> Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box w/ S-100 controller card
> Cosmac Elf
> Many S-100 cards
> Four TRS-80 Model 2 machines
> Kim
> Rockwell AIM-65
> Rockwell System 65
> MicroProfessor
> Many Multibus Computer cards
> BASIS microcomputer
> APL S-100 System
> Many manuals

> Multiple Atari 800 computers and accessories

Add a Micro Professor last year, and of course a
Rockwell LCE last month. BTW: Remember the Commodore
64 books I took ? in the mean time I found that they
are translations of German C65/1541 books :)

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 11:13:56 2002
From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Writing Assistant
In-Reply-To: <3CA1E61C.A072D040@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <3CA1D14C.14354.38B60F0@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327121051.009f60b0@pop3.norton.antivirus>

I have a very old copy of IBM Writing assistant that a friend is trying to 
install on an equally old computer so that they can read and then convert 
some important files. While trying to install the software it says you have 
used up your five copies, buy another copy. The software can no longer be 
purchased and it is important to recover the files.

Does anybody know what may need to be modified on the disk so that it can 
be installed one more time?


From earl at advantagecomputer.net  Wed Mar 27 11:31:40 2002
From: earl at advantagecomputer.net (Earl Beeler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: tektronics 503 scope
Message-ID: <81C1280D81E6D1119CA90000F4AE24FE08E027@HOLODECK3>

Was wondering what a tek 422 would cost and are they available.  Please give
me some ideas. Thanks Earl

From tony.eros at machm.org  Wed Mar 27 11:44:46 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: TRW Swap Meet, was Re: Trip to Pasadena, CA
In-Reply-To: <3CA1F25E.5B5A56ED@rain.org>
References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A454@MAIL10>
 <5.0.2.1.0.20020327094358.02d445d0@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020327124115.02e365f8@mail.njd.concentric.com>

My wife and kids are gonna kill me.  We're staying at the Sheraton Four 
Points right near LAX because it's so close to Manhattan Beach.  We're 
already planning do hit some Manhattan Beach yard sales on Saturday, so 
this'll be perfect.  For me anyway... :-)

-- Tony

At 08:25 AM 3/27/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>Yes, TRW is this weekend from about 7:00am to 11:00am. If you are going
>to be there, I'll be at space G-24 so feel free to drop by and say hi!!!
>
>The swap meet is basically at the corner of Marine and Aviation. The
>directions from one of the local sites are:
>
>The TRW Swap meet is located in Manhattan Beach, on the Northwest corner
>of Marine Ave. and Aviation Blvd. South of LAX, West of the 405 Fwy.
>Take
>the 105 Fwy West to Aviation Blvd., South on Aviation 2.5 miles to
>Marine. Talk-in 145.32, down 600 kHz, PL=2A (114.8).
>
>My sense of direction is terrible, but I would think these directions
>are to the old location. If I am right, the new location is located
>*Southeast* of that corner. In either case, if you are at the corner of
>Marine and Aviation, you will see enough activity to guide you in :).
>
>Tony Eros wrote:
> >
> > I'm going to be in Los Angeles -- will there be a TRW swap this
> > weekend?  If so, does anyone have directions?
> >
> > -- Tony
> >
> > At 03:19 PM 3/27/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> > > >       In mid-April I'm visiting one of my company's branch offices in
> > > > Pasadena, CA . I'll only be there for a few days, but I'd like
> > > > recommendations as to nearby "computing" things to see. I already 
> booked a
> > > > tour of the JPL (not classic but interesting enough :-)).
> > >
> > >In the last weekend they have a thing called TRW swap.
> > >Not very exiteing ... don't go there, just let the stuff
> > >for the locals.
> > >
> > >Servus
> > >Hans
> > >
> > >--
> > >VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> > >http://www.vcfe.org/


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Wed Mar 27 11:50:10 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <3CA1F7E2.9E552B91@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

[snippage]

> SOL-20 Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box (don't recall the real name.)
    It's a Helios, I should imagine.

And I am *so* jealous of your haul.  

	--John

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 27 11:57:04 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
References: <3CA210D5.FA8BCAD8@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <3CA207F0.343E89EE@jetnet.ab.ca>

Jos Dreesen wrote:
> 
> The tread about storage tube terminals reminded me that my Tek4014 is in need of
> repair...
> 
> 1) Is it normal that it takes up to 10 minutes to warm up ?
>    It takes that long on my machine before the clear button actually clears the
> screen.
> 
> 2) and the real problem :
> 
>    The cursor, existing of a 8x8 dotgrid, often collapses horizontally, i.e. it
> becomes (much) smaller.
>    This is, due to the storage tube technology,  repeated in all characters you
> then type in.
> 
>  Any pointers as to where I should start ?
> 
>                                 Jos .

That sounds like a power supply and or aging picture tube problem as a
guess.
Check here for posible leads on a tube:
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/index.html
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 27 12:02:23 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BA1@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com]

>   Is there a "screen" app for VMS?  Screen allows you to use "virtual
> screens" - that is have several sessions going on one terminal.  You
> page through them by hotkey.

Have you tried screen? :)  Seriously, It's a GNU app, maybe somebody
put conditionals in for VMS.  It would take a bit of work.  

I have considered trying that, myself, if it's not already done,
but it would have to wait until my Cthugha on IRIX is working
solidly, putting it somewhere ahead of TERM on the UnixPC in the
project pipeline ;)

You can use spawn/nowait to run stuff "in the background," somewhat
like the Unix  "thing &" -- you can even use SET PROCESS (I think)
to switch between foreground and background jobs, and EVE will let 
you at least run DCL commands in a window.  I'm not sure whether
you can have more than one DCL command in different windows at 
the same time, but I don't see why not.

At any rate, the best bet if you really want "screen" is to 
try running "screen" on it. :)

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 27 12:05:37 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BA2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net]

> What multisession allows is several virtual terminals over several 
> virtual circuits using one terminal and physical circuit.  I 
> use it alot.

I haven't seen this yet.  Can I do that on my vt420?

Just how would I go about it?

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 12:10:48 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: <002301c1d5ad$f1519a40$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> Yes,  If you use a terminal like VT330, 340or later there is
> what VMS calls multisessions.  Some fo the LAT servers
> also support this with more common VT220s or VT320s.
> I was added late in  VMS 4.mumble and later versions.
> This is not decwindows which is GUI based.
>
> What multisession allows is several virtual terminals over several
> virtual circuits using one terminal and physical circuit.  I use it alot.

  Yeah, that's pretty much what I was talking about.  The Unix screen
tool is hardware-independent, though.  The host manages the virtual
sessions and display.  I have an RS/6000 that's usually running with an
IBM 3151 [1] terminal, and screen & su allow me to be several users or
run several login sessions.
  An additional feature of screen is its "detach" function.  You can log
in remotely, start screen, start a job that doesn't support detach,
detach the screen session, and log out.  Log in later, reattach from
screen, and watch your job.  Yes, I'm familiar with nohup, but this is
more convenient if I'm actually watching output.

[1] - What am I missing here?  AFAICT, the 3151 is the lamest, most
featureless serial terminal of its time.  No options, no usefull
emulations, really bad CRT.  Bleah!


	Doc


From eklein at impac.com  Wed Mar 27 12:13:55 2002
From: eklein at impac.com (Erik S. Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <3CA1F7E2.9E552B91@rain.org>
Message-ID: <013a01c1d5bb$28e261d0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>

Are there any similar swap meets in the NorCal area?

Erik S. Klein


 -----Original Message-----

Hans, *thanks* for posting this information!!! Now I'll have some idea
of what to look for when I open up the box again.

BTW, I bought this unit at the TRW swap meet a few years ago. But don't
tell anyone, we don't want other collectors showing up and buying all
the good stuff :). FWIW, interesting things gotten from the TRW swap
meet by myself and others include:

IMSAI System
SOL-20 Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box (don't recall the real name.)
Dual 8" Floppy Drive Box w/ S-100 controller card
Cosmac Elf
Many S-100 cards
Four TRS-80 Model 2 machines
Kim
Rockwell AIM-65
Rockwell System 65
MicroProfessor
Many Multibus Computer cards
BASIS microcomputer
APL S-100 System
Many manuals

Multiple Atari 800 computers and accessories


Hans Franke wrote:
>
> >> > In digging around, I again ran across the Rockwell System 65. A
google
> >> > search didn't turn up any references except to a Forth system
designed
> >> > to run on that system. Anyone know anything about this thing? Thanks.
>
> >> D'oh.
>
> >> Wasn't that the 'big' development system from Rockwell
> >> for the 6502 - before the AIM ? I think I remember something
> >> like that.
>
> > That's it all right; dual 5" floppies, 16K SRAM, OS in ROM, RS232
> > & Parallel, and lots of optional modules for developing, emulating
> > & programming R6500 stuff & the R6500/1 single-chip micros.
>
> Ok, hee it goes:
>
> ---
> Rockwell's SYSTEM 65
>
>  SYSTEM 65 is a new easy to use, powerful, complete
> development system for the R6500 family of
> microcomputers. The basic configuration includes
> two built-in, mini-floppy disk drives, 16K bytes of user
> memory and 16 K bytes of resident operating system.
>
>  Monitor commands are self-prompting whenever
> memory, peripheral, or disk file assignment is requiread.
> Text editor provides line, string, and character editing
> functions A resident two-pass assembler and dynamic
> debug package complete the operating system. Both
> source and object code may be maintained in memory
> for fast editing, assembling, and checkout. Since the
> total monitor, editor, debug and assembler are resident
> in ROM, 100% of the disk storage and drive utilization
> is available to the user.
>
>  The mini-floppy diskettes may be used as storage for
> source and object code and documentation. Each
> diskette has the capacity for 78K bytes of information
> in a maximum of 60 files.
>
>  SYSTEM 65 supports a vareity of terminals with
> serial data from 100 baud to 9600 baud. Connectors
> are provided for both RS-232 C and current loop interfaceing.
> Reader ON/OFF signals and the RTS/CTS control
> signals are standard. Included is a parallel port provideing
> automatic control to high speed printers, such as
> Diablo, Centronics and Tally.
>
> And Rockwell offers these options to
> SYSTEM 65:
>
> - PL/65 High-Level Language
> - USER 65 in-circuit emulation option
> - PROM Programmer Mofule, for programming a
>   2704/2708/2716/2758 PROM device from the front
>   panel socket
> - R6500/1 Personality option, for developing with the
>   R6500/1 single-chip microcomputer
> - 16Kx8 Static RAM Modules
> - PROM/ROM Module accepting 2316/2332 ROM or
>   2708/2716/2758 PROM devices
> - Wire-wrap Design Prototype Module
> - Extender Card for circuit probing
>
> ---
> The page continues with a description of PL/65. The very
> next page describes the AIM 65
>
> Well, it is realy a great good feeling having put up all
> the shelveing and filled them with books :) Amazing what
> one can find by just looking around...
>
> BTW: the next thing I learned by peeking into the LCE
> (Low Cost Emulator) Manual for the R6500/1 Family is that
> this unit is basicly a complete SYSTEM 65 with the probe
> and 6500/* Personality module... AFAI can tell from the
> LCE manuals, the SYSTEM 65 box is fited with two system
> busses - one for the host system, and one for possible
> add ons for the target system ... so you could not only
> ICE the target system, but also add on hardware liek RAM,
> ROM, or even a disk system without putting it onto your
> PCB. What a nice idea.
>
> I guess I need a SYSTEM 65...
>
> Marvin, I hope this was of some help to you.
>
> Servus
> Hans
>
> --
> VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
> http://www.vcfe.org/


From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 27 12:15:08 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
References: 
Message-ID: <000f01c1d5bb$5492ec00$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

speaking of a Rockwell AIM-65-
I have a proper Rockwell thermal
printer for one, with paper and docs -
free for the taking - you pay shipping
from Ontario Canada.
cheers
heinz


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 27 12:16:46 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d5ad$26ab3ee0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

A REAL programmer can write a FORTRAN program in any language.


On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> I happen to use MS QB4.5/dos at work for test systems. This version
> supports all the high level structures and variable scopes that HLL like
> Pascal or C would.  It's NOT a weak light weight BASIC.  It does produce
> fast, low ram load executeables (.exe) for dos environments and has
> proven very robust and easy to use.
> 
> My beef with BASIC is especially the older versions with GOTO laden
> code can easily be a bowl of long pasta to decode.  However, I've seen
> people do same with Fortran, ALGOL, Pascal and even C.
> 
> Allison
> {my native language is ASM.}


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Mar 27 12:23:11 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Rockewell System 65
In-Reply-To: <013a01c1d5bb$28e261d0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
References: <3CA1F7E2.9E552B91@rain.org>
Message-ID: <3CA21C1F.13311.4AFA7B1@localhost>

> Are there any similar swap meets in the NorCal area?

The one in Livermore was prety nice - Sallam, you can
tell the address and dates. Also keep in mind, what
Marvin listed was not necersarry the find of one day ...
As for my experiance, you never leave empty, but it 
isn't always the one big find.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Wed Mar 27 12:25:48 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: AN/UYK62(V)2
References: <3CA16F24.5060605@adair-international.com>
Message-ID: <3CA20EAC.69478556@bluewin.ch>

ADAIR wrote:
> 
> Could anyone please inform me of the following item:
> 
> Item: Data Processing Set, military specs
> Model :1666B
> Military Designation: AN/UYK64(V)2
> Manufacturer: ROLM
> Measurement: 2 x 3 ft
> Weight: 120 lbs
> 
> RGDS/ YC

Isn't that a military version of the DG nova ?

			Jos Dreesen



From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Wed Mar 27 12:26:05 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:27:57 -0500
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> From: Jeff Hellige 
> Subject: Re: Unix disk images and archiving
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> >As I recall from experience upgrading a Cube from a 68030 to a 68040
> >CPU board, NS 1.0a and earlier would not boot on the 68040.  They were
> >written without knowledge of the future differences between a 68040 and
> >a 68030, which are significant at the system stack level.  Just something
> >to think about.
>
> 	Will 2.X boot on an '040?  I knew that 1.X and below won't 
> work on the '040 but thought that it applied to 2.X as well.  My main 
> reason for wanting to archive all the OD distributions that I have is 
> because it's quite easy to come up with a CD of 3.X but rarely do you 
> ever hear about someone with the earlier versions and they need to be 
> archived while there are still a few of the finicky optical drives 
> still functioning.

When I got my 68040 Cube upgrade kit it came with a motherboard and an
OD of NeXTstep 2.0, and a NeXT SIMM-puller tool.  And some instructions
about the sequence in which to change things.  All this information is
coming out of my occasionally fallible memory.  But I'm sure that I was
using NS 2.0 and 2.1 long before I had a CD reader.

    carl


From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Wed Mar 27 12:35:01 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
Message-ID: <3CA210D5.FA8BCAD8@bluewin.ch>


The tread about storage tube terminals reminded me that my Tek4014 is in need of
repair...

1) Is it normal that it takes up to 10 minutes to warm up ?
   It takes that long on my machine before the clear button actually clears the
screen.

2) and the real problem :

   The cursor, existing of a 8x8 dotgrid, often collapses horizontally, i.e. it
becomes (much) smaller.
   This is, due to the storage tube technology,  repeated in all characters you
then type in.

 Any pointers as to where I should start ?


				Jos .


From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Wed Mar 27 12:49:57 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


                                                                                                                                   
> As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know                                                                       
> of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?                                                                              
                                                                                                                                    
> Cheers                                                                                                                            
> Al.                                                                                                                               
>       
There is a utility called persona that will work on recent versions of 
VMS which effectively works like su.  You would need to install it with 
priv's in order not to be running those priv's needed to run it in your 
usual account.

PERSONA.MAR, you would need to
MACRO PERSONA.MAR
LINK PERSONA.MAR (LINK/SYSEXE on alpha, as I recall)

cut
;
        .TITLE  PERSONA
        .IDENT  /V1.0/
;
;***************************************************************************
;*                                                                         *
;*  COPYRIGHT ? 1997                    BY                                 *
;*  MIKE RECHTMAN,                      ISRAEL                             *
;*                                                                         *
;***************************************************************************
;+
; Be sure and LINK against the SYSTEM's symbol table and include LIB.MLB
; during assembly.
;-
        .LIBRARY        "SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB"
        .LINK           "SYS$SYSTEM:SYS.STB" /SELECTIVE_SEARCH

        .PSECT  DATA,RD,WRT,NOEXE,LONG

;
;  First, some useful texts -
;
CTRL1:  .ASCID          /Spawning subprocess under username !AS /
BANN1:  .ASCID         /                                                     /
BLEN1:  .WORD           50.
BANN2:  .ASCID          / - Exit by typing LOGOUT when through...  /
PROMP:  .ASCID          /Enter Username>/
CTRL2:  .ASCID          /Error during system call !AS, Aborting...  /
ERRMS:  .ASCID         /                                                     /
ELEN2:  .WORD           50.
ROUT1:  .ASCID          /GET_FOREIGN/
ROUT2:  .ASCID          /PERSONA_CREATE/
ROUT3:  .ASCID          /PERSONA_ASSUME (1)/
ROUT4:  .ASCID          /SPAWN/
ROUT5:  .ASCID          /PERSONA_ASSUME (2)/

M_DESC: .ADDRESS        ROUT1           ; Pointer to current routine name
  
;
;  Save some space for the username -
;
P_DESC: .ASCID          /              /
                                        ; Space to save who we want to become
                                        ; _MUST_ be valid username
U_DESC: .ADDRESS P_DESC

;
; These two LONGS hold the PERSONA data
;
PERS:   .LONG           0               ; Who we want to be

ME:     .LONG           1               ; Who we are now


        .PSECT  CODE,RD,NOWRT,EXE,BYTE
        .ENTRY  PERSONA,^M<>

10$:
        ; MOVAB ROUT1,M_DESC            ; Done at initialization
        PUSHAL  PROMP
        PUSHAL  P_DESC
        CALLS   #2,G^LIB$GET_FOREIGN    ; Get required username
        BLBS    R0,20$                  ; of not OK, then
        BRW     100$                    ;    jump to error - message

20$:
        MOVAB   ROUT2,M_DESC
        $PERSONA_CREATE_S       PERSONA=PERS,-
                                USRNAM=P_DESC   ; Setup to change
        BLBS    R0,30$
        BRW     100$

30$:
        MOVAB   ROUT3,M_DESC
        $PERSONA_ASSUME_S       PERSONA=PERS,-
                                FLAGS=#7        ; Change username
        BLBS    R0,40$
        BRW     100$
40$:
        $FAO_S                  CTRSTR=CTRL1,-
                                OUTBUF=BANN1,-
                                OUTLEN=BLEN1,-
                                P1=U_DESC

        PUSHAB  BANN1                           ; Print  msg
        CALLS   #1,G^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT             ; ...
        PUSHAB  BANN2                           ; Print another msg
        CALLS   #1,G^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT             ; ...

50$:
        MOVAB   ROUT4,M_DESC
        CALLS   #0,G^LIB$SPAWN                  ; Create a sub-process
        BLBS    R0,60$
        BRW     100$

60$:
        MOVAB   ROUT5,M_DESC
        $PERSONA_ASSUME_S       PERSONA=ME,-
                                FLAGS=#7        ; Revert to being ourselves

99$:
        $EXIT_S R0

100$:
        PUSHL   R0
        $FAO_S                  CTRSTR=CTRL2,-  ; Format routine - name
                                OUTBUF=ERRMS,-
                                OUTLEN=ELEN2,-
                                P1=M_DESC

        PUSHAB  ERRMS                           ; Say there was an error
        CALLS   #1,G^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT             ; ...
        POPL    R0                              ; get saved status
        $EXIT_S R0

        .END PERSONA

-- 



From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Wed Mar 27 12:56:52 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:51:45 EST."
             <20020327055342.FBOX27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> 
Message-ID: <200203271856.SAA05327@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

classiccmp@classiccmp.org said:
> > From: Tony Duell 
> 
> I wrote:
> 
> > > After checking the schematic I find that there is a link.  "Use L1 for
> 1K
> > > RAM, use L2 for 2K RAM."  This tells me that when a 4118 or two 2114s
> are
> > > used (or a 6116???) there is no need to change the jumper -- it's only
> > > required when using a 2KB 2016 or equivalent.
> 
> Tony replied:
> 
> > What is this link connected to? What does it reconnect? 
> 
> Ok -- I have yet another version of the schematic here, and it agrees with
> the first -- L1 for 1K and L2 for 2K but does NOT specify what this means
> in terms of the actual number of RAM ICs onboard.
> 
> >From looking at the schematic from the ZX-TEAM web site, I can't see how
> either jumper would affect a two-chip configuration.  L1 ties the single
> RAM chip's A10 to +5V, while L2 ties the single chip's A10 to the A10 line
> on the system bus.
> 
> Can you make any sense out of this, or is it necessary to be Clive Sinclair
> in order to understand it?
> 
> As mentioned in a previous post, the 2-RAM-chip ZX81 PCBs I have at hand
> have NEITHER L1 or L2 installed.

Just to confuse things further the schematic I have shows L1 pulling pin
19 of the 4118 up to 5V when that's installed, and no L2 at all!
The text refers to 2x2114 or a 4118 installed in the UK version and a
2K option for export - possibly there are 2 versions of the board?
-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From fmc at reanimators.org  Wed Mar 27 13:05:40 2002
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Northern California swap meets
In-Reply-To: "Erik S. Klein"'s message of "Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:13:55 -0800"
References: <013a01c1d5bb$28e261d0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: <200203271905.g2RJ5eO01305@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

"Erik S. Klein"  wrote:
> Are there any similar swap meets in the NorCal area?

Yes, at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills and the Livermore Amateur
Radio Klub swap meet at Las Positas College in Livermore.  See
 for details.

Where are you?

-Frank McConnell

From allain at panix.com  Wed Mar 27 13:19:51 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BA1@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1d5c4$5ecd3e60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>

> You can use spawn/nowait to run stuff "in the background," 
> . . .  you can even use SET PROCESS (I think) to switch 
> between foreground and background jobs, 

That may have been ATTACH {process} that you recall.
Also, you could suspend foreground with a simple control
key press.  With mappable keys this could be a just a two
key process.  This as of 1986.

John A.


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 13:21:43 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <001a01c1d5c4$a28954e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Set term/  

I forget the specific incantation It's been years since I had
to set it on my systems.  
Yes, the vt420 supports it.
The F3 or was it F4 key selects between sessions.
Each session can be the same or a different account.


NOTE: the Vt420 supported both multisessions over one line
and multisessions over multiple lines(same for VT340).

Allison


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Smith 
To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' 
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: More VMS 


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net]
>
>> What multisession allows is several virtual terminals over several 
>> virtual circuits using one terminal and physical circuit.  I 
>> use it alot.
>
>I haven't seen this yet.  Can I do that on my vt420?
>
>Just how would I go about it?
>
>Chris
>
>
>Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
>Amdocs - Champaign, IL
>
>/usr/bin/perl -e '
>print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
>'
>


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 13:25:35 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <001f01c1d5c5$2cb1adc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Whats hardware dependent about the VMS version?  The unix version
assumes a locally connected "head" or a Xserver/Xterm system.

The terminal can be others as I belive some of the later VT clones
also had it.  Also if you running a DEC system that has a "head"
that implied terminal does both DECwindows and Multisessions.

Allison


-----Original Message-----
From: Doc 
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org 
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: More VMS


>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
>
>> Yes,  If you use a terminal like VT330, 340or later there is
>> what VMS calls multisessions.  Some fo the LAT servers
>> also support this with more common VT220s or VT320s.
>> I was added late in  VMS 4.mumble and later versions.
>> This is not decwindows which is GUI based.
>>
>> What multisession allows is several virtual terminals over several
>> virtual circuits using one terminal and physical circuit.  I use it alot.
>
>  Yeah, that's pretty much what I was talking about.  The Unix screen
>tool is hardware-independent, though.  The host manages the virtual
>sessions and display.  I have an RS/6000 that's usually running with an
>IBM 3151 [1] terminal, and screen & su allow me to be several users or
>run several login sessions.
>  An additional feature of screen is its "detach" function.  You can log
>in remotely, start screen, start a job that doesn't support detach,
>detach the screen session, and log out.  Log in later, reattach from
>screen, and watch your job.  Yes, I'm familiar with nohup, but this is
>more convenient if I'm actually watching output.
>
>[1] - What am I missing here?  AFAICT, the 3151 is the lamest, most
>featureless serial terminal of its time.  No options, no usefull
>emulations, really bad CRT.  Bleah!
>
>
> Doc
>
>


From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Wed Mar 27 13:39:27 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066518@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> Saku Setala wrote:
> 
> 
	>I have been also looking for this item, so if anybody willing to
sell/swap
	>one in Finland or nearby, please contact..

	I've not really followed this thread, but if this is
	the Gordon Bell book you can pass the time
	by reading the online version:

	http://www.ulib.org/webRoot/Books/Saving_Bell_Books/

	Not as convenient as a hardback copy,
	but probably easier to obtain!

	Antonio


From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 27 13:39:40 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Apple Part # for IIgs SCSI card
Message-ID: 

I have a lead on some Apple II SCSI cards, but the seller knows nothing 
about them other than the Apple part #.

Anyone have a clue if any of these will work with the IIgs (or which 
systems these work with?)

>2, Apple II High Speed SCSI Card #661-0499 USED

>1, Apple II SCSI Card USED

>1, Apple SCSI Card #661-0499 USED.

Also, what are these worth? The seller doesn't know, so I have to offer a 
price if I want one, but I want to make sure I don't offer a ridiculous 
price (either too high, or too low)


Thanks!

-chris




From eklein at impac.com  Wed Mar 27 13:53:09 2002
From: eklein at impac.com (Erik S. Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Northern California swap meets
In-Reply-To: <200203271905.g2RJ5eO01305@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <014001c1d5c9$05c3def0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>

I live in San Jose so both of these events would be convenient.

I used to go to the Trenton swap meet in the early 1980s (I remember failing
to buy a loaded Altair 8800 system w/ 2 8" drives, paper tape reader,
terminal and other goodies all on a rolling rack because I couldn't figure
out how to get it home) and enjoyed browsing the toys and discards.

Erik S. Klein


 -----Original Message-----

"Erik S. Klein"  wrote:
> Are there any similar swap meets in the NorCal area?

Yes, at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills and the Livermore Amateur
Radio Klub swap meet at Las Positas College in Livermore.  See
 for details.

Where are you?

-Frank McConnell


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 27 14:08:49 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Northern California swap meets
In-Reply-To: RE: Northern California swap meets (Erik S. Klein)
References: <200203271905.g2RJ5eO01305@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
	<014001c1d5c9$05c3def0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: <15522.9937.985895.902520@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 27, Erik S. Klein wrote:
> I used to go to the Trenton swap meet in the early 1980s (I remember failing
> to buy a loaded Altair 8800 system w/ 2 8" drives, paper tape reader,
> terminal and other goodies all on a rolling rack because I couldn't figure
> out how to get it home) and enjoyed browsing the toys and discards.

  Ahh, TCF was wonderful before it turned into yet another "buy your new
Taiwanese PC here" show.  I went to all of them from about 1982
through 1990, selling for all but one or two years.  I had a great
time, every time!

       -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From zmerch at 30below.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:16 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327151116.01395ba8@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Paul Thompson may have mentioned these words:

>There is a utility called persona that will work on recent versions of 
>VMS which effectively works like su.  You would need to install it with 
>priv's in order not to be running those priv's needed to run it in your 
>usual account.
>
>PERSONA.MAR, you would need to
>MACRO PERSONA.MAR
>LINK PERSONA.MAR (LINK/SYSEXE on alpha, as I recall)

[snip]

>10$:
>        ; MOVAB ROUT1,M_DESC            ; Done at initialization
>        PUSHAL  PROMP
>        PUSHAL  P_DESC
>        CALLS   #2,G^LIB$GET_FOREIGN    ; Get required username
>        BLBS    R0,20$                  ; of not OK, then
>        BRW     100$                    ;    jump to error - message
[snip]

Is this an example of VAX/VMS assembly language?
And if so, what would a good reference be to learn it?

Thankz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From curt at atarimuseum.com  Wed Mar 27 14:16:04 2002
From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
References: 
Message-ID: <004201c1d5cc$3d4548c0$0a00a8c0@cvendel>

Hi all....

    I hate having to do this and it saddens me when I have to, but I have no
choice and it's important that others know so that they too don't get
involved in a transaction which will leave them out of cash and without the
item they bought.

   Back before Christmas I worked out a deal with Jeff Worley:

Jeffrey S. Worley
Asheville, NC USA
828-6984887
UberTechnoid@Home.com


    To purchase his SWP ATR8500 CP/M system.     I rushed him a money order
as he had explained he was having money problems and needed the cash asap.
He and I exchanged several emails and I waited and waited, a month went by,
I contacted him and no response, then I pinged the mailing list asking if
anyone knew where he might be as sometimes people have real-world issues and
their email and such may not be working.   Turns out this was the case.   I
was sent his telco# and in February I called Jeff, we had a long and
pleasant conversation and he promised to get my system out to me
immediately.    So again, I waited and waited.   Here it is yet another
month later and still nothing.    So now I call Jeff's telco# it too is now
disconnected and still nothing has ever arrived, I'm out several hundred
dollars and Jeff is nowhere to be found.   So while a patient individual, I
have no choice but to deem this deal a wash and Jeff is listed a theif and a
bad trader, let this be a warning to all to stay clear of him as he had more
then ample time to have squared this deal with me or return my money to me.



Curt




From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 14:22:28 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1d5c5$2cb1adc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:

> Whats hardware dependent about the VMS version?  The unix version
> assumes a locally connected "head" or a Xserver/Xterm system.

  Sorry; I misread your original post, and thought that multisessions
required a later model DEC terminal.
  The unix screen doesn't assume any TERM definition.  I've run it from
serial terminals, ssh sessions, and text-mode logins with a variety of
term definitions.  The Linux, *BSD and AIX versions all set the virtual
terminal to its own termcap.  It makes AIX almost convenient....


	Doc


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 27 14:24:33 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: tektronics 503 scope
References: <81C1280D81E6D1119CA90000F4AE24FE08E027@HOLODECK3>
Message-ID: <3CA22A81.A6A90B1D@jetnet.ab.ca>

Earl Beeler wrote:
> 
> Was wondering what a tek 422 would cost and are they available.  Please give
> me some ideas. Thanks Earl
Try here???
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/index.html

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 27 14:48:15 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BA9@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com]

> > You can use spawn/nowait to run stuff "in the background," 
> > . . .  you can even use SET PROCESS (I think) to switch 
> > between foreground and background jobs, 

> That may have been ATTACH {process} that you recall.
> Also, you could suspend foreground with a simple control
> key press.  With mappable keys this could be a just a two
> key process.  This as of 1986.

Yep, sorry, it's been a long day already.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 27 15:04:34 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BAB@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com]

> Is this an example of VAX/VMS assembly language?
> And if so, what would a good reference be to learn it?

Looks like MACRO32 to me -- so yes, it's basically VAX assembly.

I don't know of a good place to learn it (don't know it, 
myself), but I hear that there is a reference in with all
of the VMS manuals on the Compaq web page.

You may or may not be aware that you can get a MACRO32 
compiler (Yep!) for Alpha VMS, and very likely VMS on Itanic
when that shows up.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Wed Mar 27 15:08:41 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706651E@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> Roger Merchberger wrote:
	>Is this an example of VAX/VMS assembly language?

	Yes

	>And if so, what would a good reference be to learn it?

      The complete documentation set is at:

      http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/

       The MACRO-32 manual specifically is at:

      http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4515/4515PRO.html

	Antonio


From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Wed Mar 27 15:09:26 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <3CA1B83C.10603.3297A22@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327021503.02462ae8@192.168.1.1>
 <3C9F83CF.18523.637C150A@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327210554.023f5de0@192.168.1.1>

At 11:17 27/03/2002, you wrote:

> > > > This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
> > >Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
> > >different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
> > >OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
> > >and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
> > >MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers.
>
> > Hmm...
>
> > It *was* revolutionary for 1984, this is true.
>
>And is still one of the best Basic around.

Not really. It's LOCal handling is (always was) pants, it doesn't have 
enough variable types, it won't do objects, and it needs line numbers. All 
of which, I believe, are fixable with add-ons, none of which I have.

It was also a shame it was impossible to run multiple interpreters, 
although that shortcoming was (partially) fixed by the legendary Simon 
Goodwin with MultiBASIC.

> > However, QDos is not a
> > /true/ multitasking OS; it relied on co-operative time-slicing. So, one
> > badly written task could hog the whole machine (not uncommon...).
>
>Well, true multitasking is as soon as one can have severale
>tasks running quasi parallel. Cooperative or not doesn't matter.
>In fact I'm a big fan of cooperative system - way less OS overhead
>in terms of CPU usage.

Point taken. I forget, did one have to do anything with the registers, or 
was it a simple case of calling the appropriate TRAP?

> > SuperBASIC was - still is - fantastic. It far outstripped ALL versions of
> > BASIC available at the time, and (IMNSHO) was not really superceded until
> > Visual Basic 2 or 3 - and even then, VB's main improvement was the forms
> > designer. OTOH, the "window" facility was vastly over-rated. 
> Unfortunately,
> > however, it wasn't possible to harness the tasking system from within
> > SuperBASIC - that required machine code.
>
>With the 'Pointer Environment' (?) the QL was way ahead.

Good point. I never had PE (or ICE); still haven't. I must get around to 
getting it one day, just to see what all the fuss was about...

> > >And adding a disc controler wasn't that expansive (720K 3.5"), if
> > >your need did ourtgrow the microdrives.
>
> > Erm, it did back then... A basic single-disc system (3.5", 720K) +
> > interface cost circa GBP400. The first Winchester disc systems (5MB) cost
> > over GBP1000 when first available.
>
>Which was a total rip of in both cases. Building a FDC for the
>QL bus was straight foreward aut of the design handbook.

Don't forget, the drives themselves were very expensive, especially the 
Winchesters.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:10:20 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To:  from "Ernest" at Mar 26, 2 05:43:27 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 953 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/33446d83/attachment.ksh
From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 15:10:45 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: OS/2 Warp Connect
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327161045.00820100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

  I spotted a box with version 3 in a store in Melbourne today. I didn't ask the price but if anyone wants it I can grab it the next time that I'm there. I didn't look in the box so I don't know yet if it's all there. The box said that it came with the SW on a CD ROM.

   Joe


At 09:48 AM 3/27/02 -0600, you wrote:
>  That's been claimed.
>
>	Doc
>
>


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Wed Mar 27 15:13:35 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: More VMS 
Message-ID: <001001c1d5d4$4544bbc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

Your assumption was partially correct.

A DEC terminal such as VT340 is required IF your using a 
serial connection.  (some of the protocal info is in the tube).
There are clones that know how to as well.

Another connection could be an XZY generic terminal 
through a latserver.

A PC running the required software to emulate a DEC VT340
or VT420. This software is SETHOST (runs under dos and 
was part of pathworks package).  NOTE: this can use either
a NIC (LAT) or Serial line.

DEC VT1200 (and others) support multisession via LAT.

OR... any combo of VAXen with tube/keyboard and maybe 
mouse.

Some of those combos are like unix in the overal topology
others require a DEC multisession tube or a clone of same.

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Doc 
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org 
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: More VMS 


>On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
>
>> Whats hardware dependent about the VMS version?  The unix version
>> assumes a locally connected "head" or a Xserver/Xterm system.
>
>  Sorry; I misread your original post, and thought that multisessions
>required a later model DEC terminal.
>  The unix screen doesn't assume any TERM definition.  I've run it from
>serial terminals, ssh sessions, and text-mode logins with a variety of
>term definitions.  The Linux, *BSD and AIX versions all set the virtual
>terminal to its own termcap.  It makes AIX almost convenient....
>
>
> Doc
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:15:01 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327022521.01915500@192.168.1.1> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 27, 2 02:36:11 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1109 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/713eb207/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:18:14 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327023947.023fd138@192.168.1.1> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 27, 2 02:42:35 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1158 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/7e20920c/attachment.ksh
From thedm at sunflower.com  Wed Mar 27 15:23:35 2002
From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:47 2005
Subject: Fw: Apple Part # for IIgs SCSI card
Message-ID: <001501c1d5d5$aa390b20$6401a8c0@sunflower.com>

I know for a fact that the HIGH Speed card works wonderfully in a IIGS as I
have one in mine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" 
To: "Classic Computer" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Apple Part # for IIgs SCSI card


> I have a lead on some Apple II SCSI cards, but the seller knows nothing
> about them other than the Apple part #.
>
> Anyone have a clue if any of these will work with the IIgs (or which
> systems these work with?)
>
> >2, Apple II High Speed SCSI Card #661-0499 USED
>
> >1, Apple II SCSI Card USED
>
> >1, Apple SCSI Card #661-0499 USED.
>
> Also, what are these worth? The seller doesn't know, so I have to offer a
> price if I want one, but I want to make sure I don't offer a ridiculous
> price (either too high, or too low)
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -chris
>
> 
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 15:25:27 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Free stuff!  Adaptec AAA-131U2 Raid SCSI stuff (no card!)
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327162527.00798210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   While at a surplus place today I picked up a box for an Adaptec SCSI Raid controller card model AAA-131U2. There's no card in it but the docs and SW are there along with the original box.l If anyone wants it slip me a few bucks for beer and postage (book rate, right Doc?) and it's your's.

  There's also a couple of manuals and a disk for something called Adaptec CI/O Management in the box. I don't know if it came with the card but I'm throwing it in anyway.

    Joe


From uban at ubanproductions.com  Wed Mar 27 15:27:11 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <005701c1ccfd$aaa33760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020327152711.0094c590@ubanproductions.com>

Hi Dick,

If you do manage to locate the information on that daughterboard, I would
be interested in a copy.

--tnx
--tom

At 08:17 AM 3/16/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Speaking of the Xerox 820 ... I've got a little daughterboard that was
made by
>a local company, the purpose of which was to introduce a 179x where the 1771
>lives.  With the addition of some software I don't have, it makes the thing
>double-density (MFM) capable.  It even has a wire with an "EZ-Hook" for
>attaching to a parallel port bit, though I don't know which one.  
>
>With less than a week's effort, I could find this thing, but it would take a
>concentrated effort of a month or so to find the one-sheet document that went
>with it.
>
>Dick
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Robertson" 
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:57 AM
>Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
>
>
>> I have an 820 I'll let go reasonably. Shipping will be a bit of a PITA.
>>
>> Where are you located?
>>
>> SteveRob
>>
>> >From: Tom Uban 
>> >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>> >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>> >Subject: RE: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
>> >Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:34:35 -0600
>> >
>> >BTW, I am interested in either a z80 big board or a xerox 820 if
>> >anyone has one they want to find a new home for...
>> >
>> >--tom
>> >
>> >At 09:03 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> > >> At 10:03 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> > >> >I've got what I was told is a BigBoard.  Can someone check
>> > >> >out the picture at:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >http://www.dittman.net/z80.jpg
>> > >> >
>> > >> >and see if you recognize it?
>> > >>
>> > >> That is a Xerox 820, which is the same schematically as a z80 big
>> >board.
>> > >> The big board was a different form factor (the same size as an 8"
>> >floppy
>> > >> drive) and was usually a kit.
>> > >
>> > >If California Digital is still in business, I believe the
>> > >boxed CP/M they were (are?) selling is for the Xerox 820...
>> > >
>> > >If gone now, I have a copy...
>> > >
>> > >-dq
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>>
>>
>
>
>

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:28:34 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020327055342.FBOX27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 27, 2 00:51:45 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2292 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/838fde73/attachment.ksh
From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Wed Mar 27 15:29:00 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
Message-ID: 

Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  Is the
RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?

I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)

What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
use a serial terminal instead?

Thanks for the help!

-- Pat


From uban at ubanproductions.com  Wed Mar 27 15:29:27 2002
From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020315223951.00921950@ubanproductions.com>
References: <200203160403.g2G43IH10633@narnia.int.dittman.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020327152927.008fd400@ubanproductions.com>

Ok, I now have a BigBoard and 8" SSSD floppy (thanks Bob!)... now I am looking
for some software to run on it. My wish list is a copy of CPM, an editor (does
CPM come with one, I don't recall), a good z80 assembler, and kermit (or
similar
serial transfer program). All on single sided 8" floppies. Do you happen to
have
any of these?

I can provide the floppies if someone can make the copies for me.

Thanks in advance!

--tom


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:33:25 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <001401c1d594$e0022e80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 27, 2 06:39:52 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 320 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/a316a96e/attachment.ksh
From spc at conman.org  Wed Mar 27 15:37:02 2002
From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: The running of screen
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 27, 2002 12:10:48 PM
Message-ID: <200203272137.QAA19681@conman.org>

It was thus said that the Great Doc once stated:
> 
>   An additional feature of screen is its "detach" function.  You can log
> in remotely, start screen, start a job that doesn't support detach,
> detach the screen session, and log out.  Log in later, reattach from
> screen, and watch your job.  Yes, I'm familiar with nohup, but this is
> more convenient if I'm actually watching output.

  Almost ten years ago [1] I'm in charge of keeping up an SGI Personal Iris
4D-35 running (at the time this happened) IRIX 4.0.1 (or 4.0.5, can't quite
remember) and I had installed screen to allow me several sessions when
dialling in (and since the dial in ports were sometimes flaky, screen would
keep my session alive between disconnects).

  One of my users installed an IRC client [2] on the box.  Didn't think much
of it until I came in one day to find that IRIX had kernel paniced.  I
rebooted.  A few days later the kernel had paniced again.  I started getting
suspicious and kept a close watch on what was running.  A few days later it
paniced.  I talked to the user in question and had him do what I think he
was doing and yup.  Kernel panic.

  He would log into the system (from home), start screen.  On one of the
sessions, he would fire up IRC to log a certain channel [3], then disconnect
(literally, hang up the phone) and leave screen and IRC running.  For some
reason, *that* combination would cause IRIX 4.0.1 to panic and crash the
system.

  After that, I banned the use of IRC on the box.  Which was okay, since he
was the only one on that box to use IRC.  To drive the point home, I changed
ownership of the IRC client to root, and set the permissions to 000 [4].

  I don't think I've used screen (which I've used under AIX, SunOS, Solaris
and Linux) much since about '96 or '97.  I (personally) don't find much need
anymore.

  -spc (It's still a very cool program)

[1]	Seven to eight years ago.  I started the job itself ten years
	ago, and the hardward/software is also ten years old (if not a bit
	older) so it's mostly on topic.  

[2]	Which I didn't mind since it was installed in his account.  My
	feelings towards installing software:  if *I* used it, or two or
	more users wanted it, I installed it, otherwise you are on your
	own.

[3]	The X-Files IRC channel.  He would log in just prior to the weekly
	show, start up IRC to log the channel during the show, and leave to
	watch the show, then read the logs afterwards.

	I'm not going to pretend to even understand this.

[4]	No disk quotas on the system.  No real need to, for there were maybe
	half a dozen users of that system (including me), and about half of
	those users never bothered to really use the system.

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 15:41:10 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: info needed: Shinwa printer
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327164110.00821d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

   Does have any info on this printer?  It looks like this .

   I picked one up today. This one is marked "Terminal Printer" and model MH-4015+ but the FFC ID number says that it's made by Shinwa and it lappears to be the same as the CPB-136. It's a dot matrix printer and it has SIX printheads in it!

     Joe


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 15:52:31 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020327084857.008125f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 27, 2 08:48:57 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 3179 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/49cbf706/attachment.ksh
From pcw at mesanet.com  Wed Mar 27 16:04:08 2002
From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
> framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  Is the
> RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?

RZ26  is 1G

3000/600 CPU speed is 175 MHz

>
> I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)
>
> What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
> it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
> use a serial terminal instead?

VMS, Digital Unix, NetBSD...


>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> -- Pat
>
>

Peter Wallace



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 16:05:29 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: RS232 (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA1E143.23420.3C9BD99@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 27, 2 03:12:03 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 5086 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/efb55023/attachment.ksh
From csmith at amdocs.com  Wed Mar 27 16:06:23 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BAE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com

> I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)

> What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a 

This is the TurboChannel Alpha, right?  Last I heard, NetBSD
didn't support TurboChannel -- or was that Linux, but it's been 
a while.

Ultrix?  No, but you can run Digital Unix on it, or OSF/1, or 
whatever its name is today.

Of course, I could be mistaken, but I believe VMS is supposed to
run very well on these.  In fact, if I had one, that's what I'd do.

> keyboard with
> it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it 
> use, and can I
> use a serial terminal instead?

It will either be a "normal" peesee keyboard plug, (wouldn't use
anything but a real DEC keyboard, though), or it will be a "normal"
DEC keyboard (like for the vt320, etc).  Being an Alpha, it's more
likely the former, but that's an early Alpha, so check the shape of
the plug before you plug the keyboard in ;)

... and of course you can use a serial terminal.  (Might, or might
not require removing the framebuffer -- it did on some older VAXen.)

Try just plugging the terminal into what looks like the first serial
port, and you'll probably be pleasantly surprised.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Wed Mar 27 16:10:44 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
> framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  Is the
> RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?

  RZ26 is 1,05G

http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/archive/axp/dec3000_600.html

 for clockspeed & all that.

> I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)

  You're such a dog!

> What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
> it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
> use a serial terminal instead?

  OSF/1 which became Digital Unix which became Tru64.  Will T64 run on
turbochannel?
  The DB15 male is the kbd/mouse connector.  Uses an LK<2|4>01 keyboard
and the VSXXX-GA (or I think VSXXX-AA) mouse with a splitter dongle.
  Serial terminal works fine.  On my 3000/300X, absence of kbd/mouse
defaults the system console to the serial port.
  What a dog!    It's A Good Buy (tm)

	Doc



From thompson at mail.athenet.net  Wed Mar 27 16:16:23 2002
From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020327151116.01395ba8@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:

> >LINK PERSONA.MAR (LINK/SYSEXE on alpha, as I recall)

Ooops, LINK PERSONA.OBJ



From lists at subatomix.com  Wed Mar 27 16:17:21 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: <004201c1d5cc$3d4548c0$0a00a8c0@cvendel>
References: 
 <004201c1d5cc$3d4548c0$0a00a8c0@cvendel>
Message-ID: <1352186597.20020327161721@subatomix.com>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, Curt Vendel wrote:

> don't get involved in a transaction which will leave them out of cash and
> without the item they bought. ... Back before Christmas I worked out a
> deal with Jeff Worley:
>
> Jeffrey S. Worley
> Asheville, NC USA
> 828-6984887
> UberTechnoid@Home.com
>
> let this be a warning to all to stay clear of him as he had more then
> ample time to have squared this deal with me or return my money to me.

Sorry to hear that. I hope nothing bad has happened to him. Just for the
record, I had a successful transaction with Mr. Worley last summer. My item
was exactly as described, well packed, and shipped promptly.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 27 16:23:45 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: ; from pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 22:29:00 CET
References: 
Message-ID: <20020327232345.C300015@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.27 22:29 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
> framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  
What frame buffer? (Somthing like PMAGB-B should be printet on the slot
plate.)

> Is the RZ26 a 1G drive?
Yes, 1GB.

> And how clock speed is the proc?
175MHz, EV4 with a high bandwith 320 bit memory interface. The smaler
300 models use a slower memory interface.

> I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)
I had to give away a DG AViiON to get my DEC3k600...

> What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux...
NetBSD will runn very well on this. If you hapen to have a PMAGB-B even
X11 will work if you install -current. Linux does not support the
TURBOchannel Alphas. (This is good. Never let a toy OS like Linux on
that serious hardware. ;-) )

> Is there a version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?
VMS, of course!
No Ultrix, but OSF/1 aka DEC UNIX aka Tru64 UNIX. It is MACH based, has
many SysV features but it smells and feels very BSDish. That is the
reason why I like it. ;-) 

> Also, I didn't get a keyboard
> with it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, 
You need a special break out cable like on the DECstation 5000 2{0,4,6}0
machines. It has a 15 pin D shell connector on one side and a litle box
on the other. Keyboard (any DEC LK{2,4}01) and Mouse (DEC VSXXX) are
connected to this box. 

> can I use a serial terminal instead?
Flip S3 on the back to force the machine to serial console. Have a look
at ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/dec-docs/index.html#alpha-sys-dec3000
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 16:27:55 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
In-Reply-To: <3CA210D5.FA8BCAD8@bluewin.ch> from "Jos Dreesen" at Mar 27, 2 07:35:01 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1238 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/ac43214b/attachment.ksh
From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Wed Mar 27 16:33:30 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066521@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
> 
	>Subject:	DEC 3000-600
	>
	>framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.
Is the
	>RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?

	RZ26 is indeed 1GB SCSI.

	The DEC 3000-600 is a 175MHz EV4.
	Memory from 32MB to 512MB.
	Turbochannel. 114 specint 92.

	>What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux...

	Does Linux support TURBOchannel?
	I presume NetBSD does ... but I know
	at least one of the free OSes does not.

	> Is there a
	>version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  

	OpenVMS Alpha, yes from V1.5-1H1
	onwards (i.e. almost any version you
	happen to have).

	Ultrix never ran on these birds.

	Digital Unix (now known as Tru64
	but probably in the middle of another
	name transition) did support them
	but I have a feeling that support
	was dropped in the most recent version.
	And in this case they actually pulled
	the support code, so it absolutely
	will not work.

	>Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
	>it and didn't see one there.  What 
	>kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
	>use a serial terminal instead?

	I guess a PC keyboard (LK451 or such???)
	but I don't have any docs to hand. Almost
	all of these boxes will work with a serial
	console ... plug in and type 
		set console serial
	(otherwise it switches to the 
	graphical console partway through
	the boot and if all you have is 
	serial yo uthink it's died on you!!)

	Antonio


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 27 16:40:31 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: Re: It saddens me to do this.... (Jeffrey Sharp)
References: 
	<004201c1d5cc$3d4548c0$0a00a8c0@cvendel>
	<1352186597.20020327161721@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: <15522.19039.69976.588167@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 27, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
> > let this be a warning to all to stay clear of him as he had more then
> > ample time to have squared this deal with me or return my money to me.
> 
> Sorry to hear that. I hope nothing bad has happened to him. Just for the
> record, I had a successful transaction with Mr. Worley last summer. My item
> was exactly as described, well packed, and shipped promptly.

  I've never done business with him, but I will say that I'd been
exchanging email with him around the end of December...he was going to
get me an OS/2 distribution that I'd been looking for.  His emails
stopped abruptly in mid-conversation, and I've seen nothing from him
since, in any forum.  I hope he's ok.  I'm also very sorry to hear
that Curt's deal went south. :-(

          -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Wed Mar 27 16:43:43 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: ; from doc@mdrconsult.com on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 23:10:44 CET
References:  
Message-ID: <20020327234343.E300015@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 2002.03.27 23:10 Doc wrote:

> Will T64 run on turbochannel?
Yes, I installed 5.1 on my DEC3k600. From /usr/sys/conf/GENERIC:
cpu             "DEC3000_500"
cpu             "DEC3000_300"
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 16:46:23 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
In-Reply-To:  from "Tony Duell" at Mar 27, 2 10:27:55 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 880 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020327/60f6806d/attachment.ksh
From aw288 at osfn.org  Wed Mar 27 16:57:49 2002
From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: AN/UYK62(V)2
In-Reply-To: <3CA20EAC.69478556@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: 

> Isn't that a military version of the DG nova ?

A mostly Nova clone. Rolm and Data General went seperate ways when the 
original Nova architecture was enhanced (around the Nova 1200 maybe?). 

I have one, and soon will get two more. They are spoken for.

Some of us would LOVE to get any information on the things.

Willliam Donzelli
aw288@osfn.org

From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Mar 27 17:02:49 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
Message-ID: <014101c1d5e3$85332aa0$7d8f70d8@default>

Well today I went down to one of the warehouses to look around for some
items I needed (didn't find them) and found the following items:
1. A box marked CP/M 2.2 for Commodore 64 in it was a manual and a large
black cartridge ( it has a Z80 microprocessor in it). I'm missing the
CP/M disk which contains both  the operating system and some utility
programs.  If anyone has a copy email me off list. THANKS in advance.
2. A green and off white plastic computer called a IQ 8300 with green
rubber keys. It has a POWER 3000 32K Ram black module about the size of
a Sinclair 1015 module. I have no Doc's or box for it and it's missing
the power supply as well.  With have to do a google on this one, if
anyone has one or knows anything it let me know.
3. A Panasonic Personal Computer 32K memory model JR-200U. It's light
brown and silver in color with dark gray soft rubber keys and some dark
blue rubber keys also. It has a built in power supply with the cord
coming out the back. It also has the RF unit with so I will test it out
tonight.
4. A Sun type 5 kb missing four key caps.
5. Two HP model 9130A floppy disk drives.
6. hp 86 with 82936A rom drawer, 82937A HP-1B interface module,82900A
CP/M system module, and a 82909A 128K memory module.
7. hp 97 calculator missing adapter and battery.

All in all I had a ball opening boxes that have been packed for almost 6
years now while I was up North.


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 17:03:26 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
References: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
Message-ID: 

>When I got my 68040 Cube upgrade kit it came with a motherboard and an
>OD of NeXTstep 2.0, and a NeXT SIMM-puller tool.  And some instructions
>about the sequence in which to change things.  All this information is
>coming out of my occasionally fallible memory.  But I'm sure that I was
>using NS 2.0 and 2.1 long before I had a CD reader.

	Thanks for correcting me on that.  Unfortunately, I've still 
not gotten NS 3.3 to reformat the DOS-formatted MO disks in my 
Pinnacle Sierra, even with the disktab entries that James provided. 
It appears to read them fine, as well as writing small text files to 
them, but it won't initialize them either from the Worksapce or a 
shell.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Mar 27 17:05:08 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Got the Toshiba Desk Station IV manual
Message-ID: <014901c1d5e3$d7d5f3a0$7d8f70d8@default>

A while back someone was looking for information from this manual?  I
opened a new box while at the warehouse today and took out the manual
and have it at home now.  If you still need some info from it let me
know.


From sieler at allegro.com  Wed Mar 27 17:06:38 2002
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
Message-ID: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>

Hi,

A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of 
computers running the P-System, not different instances of the same computer).

Was this true?

Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
system B and run it successfully?

I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
limit this capability.

Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single binary,
but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
any brand/model of P-System?  (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
for every platform?)

thanks,

Stan Sieler
sieler@allegro.com
Stan Sieler                                           sieler@allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html          www.allegro.com/sieler


From sieler at allegro.com  Wed Mar 27 17:08:25 2002
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: ancient terminals, was: Re: ZX-81 Question
In-Reply-To: <20020326175847.I295819@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
References: <3CA06FB5.29043.67158E22@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA1E069.12789.1EDA02D5@localhost>

Re:
> And that reminds me of the Tektronix ASCII Terminal I rescued lately.
> Characters are drawn only once and the analog "memory" display tube
> keeps the dots fluoresceing. No screen refresh! This is one of the

Nearly 30 years after last using a Tek 4013, I *still* 
hit  much too often :)
Stan Sieler                                           sieler@allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html          www.allegro.com/sieler


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Wed Mar 27 17:20:14 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: <20020327232345.C300015@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote:

> On 2002.03.27 22:29 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
>
> > Is there a version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?
> VMS, of course!
> No Ultrix, but OSF/1 aka DEC UNIX aka Tru64 UNIX. It is MACH based, has
> many SysV features but it smells and feels very BSDish. That is the
> reason why I like it. ;-)

I said that before I realized this wasn't a DECstation, and didn't use a
MIPS cpu.

>
> > Also, I didn't get a keyboard
> > with it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use,
> You need a special break out cable like on the DECstation 5000 2{0,4,6}0
> machines. It has a 15 pin D shell connector on one side and a litle box
> on the other. Keyboard (any DEC LK{2,4}01) and Mouse (DEC VSXXX) are
> connected to this box.

Does anyone have the pinout for this?  Or even better, does anyone have a
pinout for both this and a Framebuffer Console cable that works with a
VAXstation 3200 and 4-plane mono framebuffer- a BC18P?  OR should I just
try to plug it in?  I want to get some sort of confirmation that it won't
blow up my keyboard or DEC3000 first.

> > can I use a serial terminal instead?
> Flip S3 on the back to force the machine to serial console. Have a look
> at ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/dec-docs/index.html#alpha-sys-dec3000
> --

Which serial port should I use? The DB25-P or the MMJ jack?

-- Pat


From ernestls at attbi.com  Wed Mar 27 17:39:14 2002
From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: <15522.19039.69976.588167@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:41 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: It saddens me to do this....
>
>
> On March 27, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
> > > let this be a warning to all to stay clear of him as he had more then
> > > ample time to have squared this deal with me or return my money to me.
> >
> > Sorry to hear that. I hope nothing bad has happened to him. Just for the
> > record, I had a successful transaction with Mr. Worley last
> summer. My item
> > was exactly as described, well packed, and shipped promptly.
>
>   I've never done business with him, but I will say that I'd been
> exchanging email with him around the end of December...he was going to
> get me an OS/2 distribution that I'd been looking for.  His emails
> stopped abruptly in mid-conversation, and I've seen nothing from him
> since, in any forum.  I hope he's ok.  I'm also very sorry to hear
> that Curt's deal went south. :-(

These are tough times for a lot of good people. Perhaps he will mail the
system to you in the future, when he gets his life straightened back out.
I'm not trying to defend his actions but sometimes things happen that no
one expects or plans for. In this case, it sounds like he is having some
serious problems.

Ernest


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Wed Mar 27 17:41:21 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: RE: DEC 3000-600 (Christopher Smith)
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BAE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <15522.22689.398866.356487@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 27, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)
> 
> > What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> > version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a 
> 
> This is the TurboChannel Alpha, right?  Last I heard, NetBSD
> didn't support TurboChannel -- or was that Linux, but it's been 
> a while.

  NetBSD has supported turbochannel on alpha and pmax since the dawn
of time.  I've run it on many 3000-series machines...it will give you
no trouble.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Wed Mar 27 17:55:12 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA25BE0.B4C8844A@adelphia.net>

this is a nice machine... I have a MINT 3000 model 900 myself in my
collection, which is a 275mhz alpha processor. The 600 is a 175mhz processor.
Still a nice machine. You can run it headless with a serial console, just do
not plug a kb in, and plug the terminal into the serial port on the back. This
machine can run OpenVMS , Tru64 or OSF/1 unix, Linux (although with some work)
and Netbsd.  This is one of the alpha processors which CANNOT run NT... no
loss there though...




pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
> framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  Is the
> RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?
>
> I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)
>
> What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
> it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
> use a serial terminal instead?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> -- Pat

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 17:57:54 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
References: 
Message-ID: <001f01c1d5eb$369bde20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Actually, one doesn't have to write "spaghetti code" in QBasic, since it has
some updated rules of scope and some features to permit logically
block-structuring the code.

It's not like MBASIC5.1 under CP/M at all.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))


> A REAL programmer can write a FORTRAN program in any language.
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
>
> > I happen to use MS QB4.5/dos at work for test systems. This version
> > supports all the high level structures and variable scopes that HLL like
> > Pascal or C would.  It's NOT a weak light weight BASIC.  It does produce
> > fast, low ram load executeables (.exe) for dos environments and has
> > proven very robust and easy to use.
> >
> > My beef with BASIC is especially the older versions with GOTO laden
> > code can easily be a bowl of long pasta to decode.  However, I've seen
> > people do same with Fortran, ALGOL, Pascal and even C.
> >
> > Allison
> > {my native language is ASM.}
>
>


From cvisors at carnagevisors.net  Wed Mar 27 18:00:19 2002
From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (cvisors@carnagevisors.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote:

> If someone wants to investigate further, The Charlotte
> Observer search engine (Charlotte is less than 30 miles
> from Asheville):
> 
> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/archives/
> 
> on a query of Jeffrey Worley returns the "Death Notices"
> article from Feb. 10 2002 (a query of Jeffrey Worley Asheville 
> does not).  I can't view the article (I'm at work) so I'm
> not sure that it is him (I hope not).
> 
> Bill Sudbrink
> 
> 
Fortunatly, It isn't him. The death notice is for a Balta Cordella 
Stomoff, 82, of Charlotte.


Benjamin


From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu  Wed Mar 27 18:28:06 2002
From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
Message-ID: <200203280028.AA22049@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>

> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:03:26 -0500
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> From: Jeff Hellige 
> Subject: Re: Unix disk images and archiving
> Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
>
> >When I got my 68040 Cube upgrade kit it came with a motherboard and an
> >OD of NeXTstep 2.0, and a NeXT SIMM-puller tool.  And some instructions
> >about the sequence in which to change things.  All this information is
> >coming out of my occasionally fallible memory.  But I'm sure that I was
> >using NS 2.0 and 2.1 long before I had a CD reader.
>
> 	Thanks for correcting me on that.  Unfortunately, I've still 
> not gotten NS 3.3 to reformat the DOS-formatted MO disks in my 
> Pinnacle Sierra, even with the disktab entries that James provided. 
> It appears to read them fine, as well as writing small text files to 
> them, but it won't initialize them either from the Worksapce or a 
> shell.

Yes.  NeXTstep does not have the software drivers to build new raw
DOS file systems.  Except on floppy disks, where the file structure is
much simpler.  What there is lives in /usr/filesystems.

I suppose that nowadays you could attach your SCSI MO drive to a Linux
system and build a DOS file system there.  There is a software package
"dosfstools".

Reading through again, if you want to reformat a MO disk from DOS to
NeXT, what I remember as the magic recipe is first to format it as a
Macintosh file system.  Then you can make a NeXT-format disk out of it.

    carl


From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net  Wed Mar 27 18:32:47 2002
From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

If someone wants to investigate further, The Charlotte
Observer search engine (Charlotte is less than 30 miles
from Asheville):

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/archives/

on a query of Jeffrey Worley returns the "Death Notices"
article from Feb. 10 2002 (a query of Jeffrey Worley Asheville 
does not).  I can't view the article (I'm at work) so I'm
not sure that it is him (I hope not).

Bill Sudbrink


From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Wed Mar 27 18:59:57 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327023947.023fd138@192.168.1.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328005403.018b0f10@192.168.1.1>

At 21:18 27/03/2002, you wrote:

> > >Err, a serious business computer (which is what the QL was sold as in the
> > >UK, at least initially) does not require you to make your own media.
> >
> > The trouble was the price. Sinclair would have had to approximately double
> > the machine's price - and quite possibly size & weight - to get a disk
>
>Why is size/weight important for a machine that's not designed as a portable?

Smaller is Better? Wasn't that always Sinclair's design philosophy?

Anyway, size was a secondary issue...

>And as regards price, I (and virtually everone else I know) would rather
>pay enough and get something that's useable and reliable rather than pay
>too little and get something that's useless.

Perhaps. Back when they were new, it was the only "decent" computer my 
family could afford. As such, I'm prepared to forgive Sir Clive an awful 
lot; since I got a very handy machine.

>I know this is an
>unconventional idea these days, though :-(

So true. OTOH, the QL was mostly reliable. Certainly more reliable than any 
single one of my PCs here (all of which have, at some time or another, had 
something fail in them). What makes the PC forgivable is that it's 
generally a plug-in plug-out component, rather than some integral part of 
the only circuit board in the thing. Although, come to think of it, I have 
had 3 motherboard failures :(


> > drive in (forget the Amstrad 3" wreckages, they're about as reliable as
> > microdrives).
>
>Odd... I've not used the Amstrad drives, but I've used the Hitachi 3"
>drives with 'Amsoft' disks (who really made those? Maxell?) and never
>lost a single byte. The disk mechanical construction is much better than
>the 3.5" one as well...

I'm not totally sure whether the Amstrad drive = Hitachi, but I've had 
nothing but bad luck with the Amstrad things. The S/W house I did "work 
experience" at (whilst still an ankle-biter) had nothing but rude words to 
say about the CPC6128 and it's disk drive.

> > Granted, the QL would possibly have enjoyed more success that way, but
> > Sinclair is Sinclair.
>
>Unfortunately, he's ruined just about all of his products in this way :-(

Probably. Sir Clive is an innovator and corner-cutter. No way is he a 
business man.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:00 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020327185918.0233a8c0@pc>

At 07:32 PM 3/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>If someone wants to investigate further, The Charlotte
>Observer search engine (Charlotte is less than 30 miles
>from Asheville):
>http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/archives/
>on a query of Jeffrey Worley returns the "Death Notices"
>article from Feb. 10 2002 (a query of Jeffrey Worley Asheville 
>does not).  I can't view the article (I'm at work) so I'm
>not sure that it is him (I hope not).

There's Worley funeral home in Fayetteville, so that
may be the cause of the hits.  Their archive links to 
Newsbank, maybe that's a pay service.

- John


From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:20 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327022521.01915500@192.168.1.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328010004.00bcfcf8@192.168.1.1>

At 21:15 27/03/2002, you wrote:

> > >Right, but you could manufacture your own - using regular music
> > >cassette tape of acceptrable quality did work quite well.
> >
> > Never tried that... OTOH, in 18 years of QL ownership, I've only ever had
> > one single cartridge jam.
>
>You were very lucky. I had several jam in the first _month_. And no, I
>wasn't doing stupid things with them, unless inserting them in
>microdrives is considered stupid.

Conversely, perhaps you were very *unlucky*?

Like I say, I've got 5 QLs here (spanning a few years of production), over 
200 mdv carts, and only one jam (and that was 14 years ago, or thereabouts).

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Wed Mar 27 19:03:42 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
References: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA26BEE.BAD61813@jetnet.ab.ca>

Stan Sieler wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
> and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of
> computers running the P-System, not different instances of the same computer).
> 
> Was this true?
Funny that is what JAVA claims to be!  I do remember that P-System had
its own operating system.So only disk/console I/O and a p-code engine
had to be written for a new machine.
Too bad it was not open source! 
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Mar 27 19:15:44 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020327190007.00a7ad40@pc>

At 03:06 PM 3/27/2002 -0800, Stan Sieler wrote:
>Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
>system B and run it successfully?
>I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
>limit this capability.
>Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single binary,
>but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
>any brand/model of P-System?  (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
>for every platform?)

Although I wasn't intimately involved with the P-System
commercial software market in the early 80s, I do have a 
page on it on my web: http://www.threedee.com/jcm/

With each revision of the operating system (II, IV, etc.)
they changed the opcodes, which caused incompatibility.
The Pascal language implementation changed with each
major version, too.

Also, each platform tended to have its own library of
platform-specific routines.  Any programmer had enough tools
at their disposal to create their own library of custom 
function calls, which could jump into native assembler.

Those calls were commonplace on any app that did interesting 
things by becoming intimate with the hardware - sound, video, 
block access to disks, serial ports, etc.  No doubt these were
some of the most popular apps on any platform, being able to
connect to modems, do fast non-text graphics, or beep the 
speaker, etc.

I believe if an app stuck to straight UCSD Pascal and text I/O, 
you can move it across media and platform (to a system of the 
same version) and it would run.  Certainly media conversions were 
more daunting in those days, too.

On the other hand, the UCSD P-system for the original IBM PC
still runs in a command window in Windows 2000.  Out of the
box compatibility after almost 20 years!

- John


From mythtech at mac.com  Wed Mar 27 19:37:07 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Fw: Apple Part # for IIgs SCSI card
Message-ID: 

>I know for a fact that the HIGH Speed card works wonderfully in a IIGS as I
>have one in mine.

Thanks, now to see if the guy has one left, and if I can afford it.

-chris




From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:02 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020327084857.008125f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327205002.00819430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 09:52 PM 3/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>   SOME of HP 3.5" drives would support high density 1.44mb disk but the
>> 9114 would not. In fact, I haven't been able to get the 9114 to work at
>> all with any 1.44Mb disks.  They might work if they were bulk erased
>> first, I haven't tried that. But standar d 720k disks work fine in them.
>> I've found the same to be true in the 9121 and several other HP 3.5"
>
>The 9114A, 9121, 9122 (not C, I guess), 9123, 9133, etc use a full-height 
>Sony disk mechanism. This one will not work with HD disks because the 
>disk-inserted sensor (a spring-loaded flag and a slotted optoswitch on 
>the motor PCB) lines up with the density select hole on the HD disk. The 
>result is that the drive thinks no disk is inserted.

   I've never looked the internals of the drive but that certainly makes sense since the error message returned says that there is no media in the drive.

>
>I've not tried covering the hole in an HD disk so the sensor is 
>triggered. Some people have, and report it works 'sometimes'. But I stick 
>to real 720K disks...

   Ditto!  I tried covering the hole but it didn't work for me.

>
>
>> drives. In fact, IIRC the 9122 C (emphasize C) is the only drive that I'll
>> found that will use the 1.44mb disks. 
>> 
>
>>   The capacity of the disk is dependent on the machine it's being used
>> with and what optional parameters that you give the Format (or Initialize)
>> command.  It's generally about 710k but on the HP-41 it's only about 270k
>> due to the small size of the 41 m emory and limited disk DIR, FAT
>> (actually LIF) and other disk info that the 41 can hold. 
>
>The HP41 is intersting. When the 82160 HPIL module ROM was written, the 
>_only_ mass storage device was the 82161 cassette drive with a capacity 
>of 128K. Moreover, the 82161 does not respond to the 'extra' DDL/DDT 
>commands that the 9114 responds to that cause the latter to report the 
>capacity. So the HP41 assumes that all mass storage devices are 128K (512 
>'blocks') long.
>
>If you use a 9114 drive with an HP41, then it'll report 'MDM FULL' (or 
>whatever the medium full message is) when you try to put more than 128K 
>on the disk. _Unless_ you manage to artificially create a file that spans 
>the 128K boundary, when it seems to work properly. There's an HP program 
>for this, and a modified verison in PPC journal. It uses the Extended I/O 
>ROM to send DDL and DDT commands to the 9114 to create such a file. I've 
>not bothered -- 128K on a single disk is still plenty of space for an HP41...


   128K is a HUGE space for a HP 41!  The 41 only has 2.2k of RAM!


   Joe


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:06 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: <014101c1d5e3$85332aa0$7d8f70d8@default>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020327210806.00818210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 05:02 PM 3/27/02 -0600, you wrote:

>5. Two HP model 9130A floppy disk drives.

  Those are the disk drives for the original HP 86.  The later 86B used HP-IB drives but on the 86 the drives connected directly to the main chassis.


>6. hp 86 with 82936A rom drawer, 82937A HP-1B interface module,82900A
>CP/M system module, and a 82909A 128K memory module.

   Nice setup!  I THINK I know where I can lay my hands on a copy of the CPM SW for the module. I had four or five of the modules and finally gave them away after I couldn't find the SW. THEN I finally found it! I did have a manual for the CPM modules and I can probably borrow it back.



>7. hp 97 calculator missing adapter and battery.

   The adapter puts out 8 volts AC. The battery has four sub-C NiCad cells so it has 4.8 volt output. It should be easy to find an AC adapter, the adapters that are used for the rechargeable battery packs in the HP-41 and for nearly all of the HP-IL devices fits and works fine on the 97.  I frequently find these types of chargers in the surplus stores. I found so many of them that I just quit them.  FWIW the charger is not adaquete to run the 97 without the battery however you can it off a decent power supply connected to the battery terminals.

   Joe


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 20:18:00 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <200203280028.AA22049@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
References: <200203280028.AA22049@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
Message-ID: 

>Reading through again, if you want to reformat a MO disk from DOS to
>NeXT, what I remember as the magic recipe is first to format it as a
>Macintosh file system.  Then you can make a NeXT-format disk out of it.

	Actually it reformatted the DOS 512byte/sec MO disk as a Mac 
disk from the Workspace without any problem and immediately mounted 
it as well.  I then tried to reformat it as a NeXT disk from the 
Workspace and it failed.  I then dropped to a shell and told it to 
initialize and format the disk and it went through all the motions, 
showing that it completed, but it didn't mount it.  I then told it to 
eject the disk and I re-inserted it....the system then said that the 
disk wasn't readable and asked if I wanted to initialize it.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Wed Mar 27 20:25:48 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
Message-ID: 

I picked up one of these today from Purdue Salvage.  Anyone have any
useful software for it?  I might be willing to sell it if anyone's
interested.  I was kinda disappointed... out of 6 or so Apple IIe's they
got in, not one had an expansion card besides DiskII, the Z-Card and a
printer interface.  Still looking for a SuperSerial card so I can copy
data to it (and a copy of Disk Tools on 5-1/5" floppies for it)

-- Pat



From tony.eros at machm.org  Wed Mar 27 20:27:02 2002
From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020327210806.00818210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
References: <014101c1d5e3$85332aa0$7d8f70d8@default>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020327212136.02e20918@mail.njd.concentric.com>

Let me know if you don't track it down.  I'm pretty sure I have a copy of 
the HP-85 CP/M software in one of the boxes in the bookcase behind me.  I 
got an HP-85 at a yard sale a couple of years ago that included two dual 
3.5" disk drives, a bunch of manuals and carts and five shoeboxes full of 
disks.  I remember seeing a CP/M cartridge and docs, so I'm pretty sure the 
software would turn up.

-- Tony

At 09:08 PM 3/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>At 05:02 PM 3/27/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >5. Two HP model 9130A floppy disk drives.
>
>   Those are the disk drives for the original HP 86.  The later 86B used 
> HP-IB drives but on the 86 the drives connected directly to the main chassis.
>
>
> >6. hp 86 with 82936A rom drawer, 82937A HP-1B interface module,82900A
> >CP/M system module, and a 82909A 128K memory module.
>
>    Nice setup!  I THINK I know where I can lay my hands on a copy of the 
> CPM SW for the module. I had four or five of the modules and finally gave 
> them away after I couldn't find the SW. THEN I finally found it! I did 
> have a manual for the CPM modules and I can probably borrow it back.
>
>
>
> >7. hp 97 calculator missing adapter and battery.
>
>    The adapter puts out 8 volts AC. The battery has four sub-C NiCad 
> cells so it has 4.8 volt output. It should be easy to find an AC adapter, 
> the adapters that are used for the rechargeable battery packs in the 
> HP-41 and for nearly all of the HP-IL devices fits and works fine on the 
> 97.  I frequently find these types of chargers in the surplus stores. I 
> found so many of them that I just quit them.  FWIW the charger is not 
> adaquete to run the 97 without the battery however you can it off a 
> decent power supply connected to the battery terminals.
>
>    Joe


From marvin at rain.org  Wed Mar 27 20:33:16 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:48 2005
Subject: Dealers of Lightning - Zerox PARC ...
References: <200203280028.AA22049@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> 
Message-ID: <3CA280EC.2EF97C94@rain.org>


I took a visit over to one of the thrift stores and found "Dealers of
Lightning", the history of Xerox PARC. It is a fairly new book (c 1999)
but looks to be pretty interesting. A search on ABE showed one available
at about $3.50 while most of the others were prices from about $10.00
up. Seems like a worthwhile book for the library.

From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 20:33:59 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
References: <200203160403.g2G43IH10633@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3.0.5.32.20020327152927.008fd400@ubanproductions.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d601$0419de00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

There's plenty of CP/M software out there.  All you need to do is find one of
the mirrors of the late Tim Olmstead's unofficial CP/M site.

CP/M comes with a line-editor called ED and it's not as powerful as the
original MSDOS' EDLIN.  The editor of choice for CP/M would probably be
WordStar, of which there are several versions for CP/M.  It does come with an
assembler, called ASM, and you can snag a macroassembler called MAC from the
CP/M website, and be sure to get the Z80 extensions for it, so you can make
some comparisons with M80, which is a Microsoft product, but also lying around
on various CP/M sites throught the web.  You'll also want to get the other
"pieces," namely the linker, and a symbol cross-referencing tool, XREF.

If I were you, I'd take it slowly.  You'll undoubtedly want a few compilers,
e.g. 'C', Pascal, Algol, PL/M, PL-I, Fortran II, Fortran IV, Fortran77, and
the RATFOR preprocessor, and probably COBOL, and Lisp, and Modula-II, and the
list goes on.  There are multiple versions of nearly all of these, but if you
obsess on getting all this stuff, which is tempting, you'll never learn what
you need.

Select the editor you want, keeping in mind that little of this stuff is much
use without a hard disk, which is not "rocket science" to add, provided you
can snag a drive of the CP/M era.  IDE drives are a mite more trouble, as are
SCSI types, but it's all been done.  The maximum size for a CP/M 2.2 (plain
vanilla version) system is 8 MB, and you can only have as many as 16 drives,
including the floppies.  My understanding is that if you have a 60 MB drive,
you can stick all the software that was ever published for CP/M, including
sources, on it and still have room left.  Some folks disagree, but I almost
believe that.  Somebody sent me a CD of CP/M stuff that purportedly contained
pretty much "everything" there was, and it was barely 10% utilized.  Several
CD's have been published, but most have what amounts to multiple copies of the
same stuff on them, so their capacity is not representative of what you might
need storage-wise.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the BigBoard runs at just over 2 MHz
(2.5?).  I've got several but really haven't considered how fast they run in
the original version, because I'm into hot-rodding.  The software versions I
have don't use mode-2 interrupts, so one wonders why the designer used those
awkward Z80 peripherals that do little more than ensure that you can't run the
CPU faster than the peripherals, even though the CPU is quite capable of it.
Of course, the fact that the entire board is out of the Mostek and Zilog
app-notes might explain that.

So go out and find those websites, read the documents, and grab the software
you think you want.

If you want the 12 or so "utility" diskettes for the Big Board, I can probably
fix you up with that stuff, but not right away, as I'm not yet to the point of
restoring communication between my CP/M system and the PC's.  Maybe in a
couple of weeks.

Dick





----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Uban" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed


> Ok, I now have a BigBoard and 8" SSSD floppy (thanks Bob!)... now I am
looking
> for some software to run on it. My wish list is a copy of CPM, an editor
(does
> CPM come with one, I don't recall), a good z80 assembler, and kermit (or
> similar
> serial transfer program). All on single sided 8" floppies. Do you happen to
> have
> any of these?
>
> I can provide the floppies if someone can make the copies for me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --tom
>
>


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Mar 27 20:36:50 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Stan Sieler wrote:
> Hi,
> A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
> and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of 
> computers running the P-System, not different instances of the same computer).
> Was this true?
NO
although there were a few machines for which it would be true.

> Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
> system B and run it successfully?
> I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
> limit this capability.

You are correct; your friend AND the UCSD vendors weren't.
SEVERAL systems would work, but their concept of a "universal format" was
not thought through.  Due to disk hardware incompatabilities, it was NOT
possible for Apple and IBM (just two as an example) to share a "universal
disk format", although they DID advertise (FALSELY) exactly that.

> Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single 
> binary,
  ^^^^^^
The basic concept behind it was the distribution of software NOT as a
binary, but as a platform independent "P-code" that was run on a
"P-code" interpreter.

> but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
> any brand/model of P-System?  (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
> for every platform?)

It combined all of the convenience of software development of a compiler
with the speed of execution of an interpreter.


Has anybody ever seen a WORKING/SHIPPED copy of "Xeno-File"?   I've heard
that there might have been some procedural irregularities on the
processing of their trademark registration  (Supposedly trademark
registration can not be granted until a product is actually being
shipped).


NOTE: I did have some users who used XenoCopy-PC to transfer P system
files from one system to MS-DOS, and then from there to other P system
formats.  I am not aware of any other disk format conversion programs that
would do it, so the alternative was serial transfer.

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236                     (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236


From cube1 at charter.net  Wed Mar 27 20:44:54 2002
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Burroughs Tape drive on ebay
In-Reply-To: <14d.afd12cf.29ce71c0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020327204102.03d3f4c8@cirithi>

I doubt it.  It looks much more like a 7 Track / 9 Track 1/2" tape 
*CLEANER* to me.

Jay

At 07:03 PM 3/23/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Heads up Minnesota or those in the area. Found this filed under photo stock.
>Not only was it miss categorized but the owner has no idea what it is. Four
>days to go.
>
>It looks like a Portable R to R tape drive for an early Burroughs
>Computerized Accounting Machines. (Looking at the styling)
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1341100641
>
>A great collectable but it is heavy. If anyone contacts the owner I would be
>interested in what interface it has in it? I am not at all interested in the
>drive but I know it is fairly rare now.
>
>Paxton
>Astoria, OR

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1@charter.net



From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 20:47:00 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: RS232 (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
References: 
Message-ID: <005901c1d602$d5b3e5e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

That's not part of the standard I remember, Tony.  Though it's been a while
(1970-something) I remember a string of meetings regarding a feeble attempt at
IBM to ascertain what the "correct" way to use the RS232-C (then) standard
signals might be.  There was no agreement.  DEC did it one way, DG another, TI
yet another, and the EIA standard, while quite precise about signal names,
definitions of the roles of terminal equipment and communcation equipment,
pins, and voltage levels, baud rates over distance, etc, said nothing at all
about any sort of signalling protocol either in hardware or software.  This
caused LOTS of trouble out in the field when one wanted mfg ABC's equipment to
talk to mfg XYZ's.  Everybody seemed, simply, to have assumed what was
intended and gone with that.  Later, they had to figure out how to work around
the resulting problems.  The answer, of course, was to strap back all the
handshakes so the hardware would work, then use X-on/X-off protocol in
software to do the work.

One reason this standard was so limited was because of its rather narrow
assumptions about what the roles of terminal vs. communication equipment were.
If there were no equipment other than terminals and modems it would have been
a piece of cake.

If you've got a pointer to a recent version of the spec, perhaps you could
share it with us so we can all get on the same page.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: RS232 (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))


> > > > > The
> > > > > serial ports were broken as designed (I've looked at the schematics.
The
> > > > > RxD lines from the 2 ports are just ORed together -- the external
devices
> > > > > _must_ observe the handshake lines!), and
> > > > Which every _real_ device should do. That's what the handshake
> > > > lines are for. Always going for the least common ground isn't
> >
> > Tony, as much as I apreciate your knowledge, now you
> > shoot yourself in the foot.
>
> I disagree, and so do many major manufacturers. Example : No DEC serial
> port on any of my PDP8s or PDP11s (DL8, DL11, DZ11) uses RTS or CTS. Or,
> indeed any other line for flow control. Mainly because they _should not_
> be used for flow control.
>
> This, of course, means you can't use a QL as a terminal to a PDP11 system
> (!).
>
> >
> > > Absolutely WRONG! Have you read the RS232 standard?
> >
> > Yes I did, and I couldn't find any Note that they are just
> > funky add ons to till the sepc document.
>
> Eh? The RS232 spec I read made some interesting comments about the
> correct use of the handshake lines. Things like one end had to change one
> of them _before_ the other end could drop another line (I can't remember
> the exact details, but it was something like it was forbidden for the DCE
> (modem) to deassert CTS while the DTE (terminal) was still asserting RTS.
> Which makes RTS/CTS flow control strictly illegal by the standard. It may
> not have been that pair of lines, but it was certainly a commonly used
pair).
>
> >
> > > The handshake lines are _not_ there for flow control. After all, the
> > > RS232 interface was designed to link a terminal to a (dumb) modem. The 2
> > > devices that need to perform flow control are the terminal and the
> > > computer connected to the other modem. But the handshake lines are _not_
> > > transmitted down the phone line and thus can't be used (officially) for
> > > flow control.
> >
> > Now you are talking about an end to end transmission, which
> > has NOTHING to do with RS232. RS232 defines the layout of
>
> The origianl use of RS232 was to link a terminal to a modem. Period. And
> this modem does not have any internal character buffering (I am talking
> about one of the old Bell or GPO modems, not some modern thing), so _it_
> can't do flow control with the terminal. The 2 devices that need to do
> flow control are the DTEs (terminal and computer), one at each end of the
> link.
>
> Now if you want to extend RS232 to link 2 local devices without
> intermediate modems, fine. We all do that. But you should do it in a way
> that is still compatible with the original usage. Not _require_ the
> device to do hardware flow control when it may not be capable of it.
>
>
> > The controllines are ment to tell the other sinde about states
> > like data can be accepted or not etc. Let's just take said modem
> > and terminal - flowcontroll here is to be made by using the hand
> > shake lines. As for example if the modem can't send the data fast
> > enough it needs a way to tell that the terminal has to wait.
>
> Perhaps you could tell me how a GPO Modem 2B (to quote one old modem I
> know darn well) can do any form of flow control. The TxD input from the
> terminal goes straight to the modulation input on a 2-frequency
> oscillator. There is no intermediate data buffering. Period.
>
> >
> > > Of course everyvbody uses them for that, at least on local connections.
> > > But no device should _require_ them. It's one thing to allow them to be
> > > used to prevent data loss if too much data is sent too fast. It's quite
> > > another to require them to be used in all circumstances to prevent data
> > > ending up in the wrong place.
> >
> > This sounds to me like asking car manufacturers to build their
> > wheels according to the request that the car should still work
> > fine if not all nuts are tightened.
>
> No, it's asking that devices should attempt to follow the standard. Add
> extra features if you like (hardware flow control), but don't make them
> madatory. Because there are a lot of devices out there, even quite modern
> ones (I have one I bought _new_ in 2000) that don't support any form of
> hardware flow control, and thus can't be used with a QL.
>
> >
> > > Hmm.. I regard the lack of reliable mass storage and useable serial
ports
> > > (and no other I/O at all) to be rather more serious than the lack of a
> > > number pad (which, IIRC, was available as an option for the Mac).
> >
> > Still, no real Disk drive (only the real weired Mac Drive,
> > not compatible to anything else, no hard disk (at a price
>
> I found the original Mac drive to be a lot more reliable than the QL
> microdrives (which also were incompatible with everything else out there).
>
> > where one could get a CP/M System with HD), no accessable
> > system buss, no nothing. Only one serial port, and that's
>
> Every Mac I've ever seen has 2 serial ports...
>
> > it. Na, I didn't like the Mac (from a hardware point) back
> > then, an it didn't change over the years - the original Macs
> > are cloesed black box crap.
>
> I don't like the Mac much either (particularly not the original ones). I
> don't like closed systems. But that is not the point.
>
> -tony
>
>


From edick at idcomm.com  Wed Mar 27 20:49:11 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: 
Message-ID: <006301c1d603$23d21120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

Well, that's as good an excuse as any.

There are always "other" reasons.  I happened to think of this one (a) because
I've been asked to do things that way, and (b) because someone recently
mentioned it.  I've seen plenty of cases where it would have saved dozens of
vias to lay the board out without scrambling the address/data lines to the
EPROMs.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> >
> > A lot of manufacturers have thought it "clever" to rearrange the address
and
> > data lines, on an EPROM, for example, in order to obfuscate their
firmware.
>
> Since it's so easy to figure out, I've always thought it was not done for
> obfuscation, but to make it easier to lay the PCB out in the first place.
>
> -tony
>
>


From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu  Wed Mar 27 20:49:46 2002
From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA26BEE.BAD61813@jetnet.ab.ca> from Ben Franchuk at "Mar 27, 2002
 06:03:42 pm"
Message-ID: <200203280249.SAA23014@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu>

> Stan Sieler wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
> > and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of
> > computers running the P-System, not different instances of the same computer).
> > 
> > Was this true?
> Funny that is what JAVA claims to be!  I do remember that P-System had
> its own operating system.So only disk/console I/O and a p-code engine
> had to be written for a new machine.
> Too bad it was not open source! 

Haven't been following the thread, so I don't know if some of this has been
said.

I think I have C code (ca-1985) that implements a p-code pascal->pcode compiler
and a pcode interpreter under unix.  It's certainly not the full P-system,
though.  

You can get Pascal source for an early compiler and interpreter on 
http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/index.html

You can also get an emulator there.

Eric


From jrkeys at concentric.net  Wed Mar 27 21:37:27 2002
From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
References: 
Message-ID: <019b01c1d609$e28c9bc0$7d8f70d8@default>

I think at the last auction I may have got 4 or 5 Superserial cards
dumped in with a box electrical items. None were in a apple box just
loose in this big box of stuff. Untested you can have one for $1 plus
shipping if that's what I have.
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card


> I picked up one of these today from Purdue Salvage.  Anyone have any
> useful software for it?  I might be willing to sell it if anyone's
> interested.  I was kinda disappointed... out of 6 or so Apple IIe's
they
> got in, not one had an expansion card besides DiskII, the Z-Card and a
> printer interface.  Still looking for a SuperSerial card so I can copy
> data to it (and a copy of Disk Tools on 5-1/5" floppies for it)
>
> -- Pat
>
>
>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 27 22:25:53 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <20020328042730.VZZB18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Richard Erlacher 

> I'm quite comfortable that I have the file sets, but as far as the
original
> diskettes ... I don't know.  I recall that I've got v1.0.  That was on
only
> one diskette, IIRC.
> 
> That will easily fit in a zip file and fly via the 'net, I'd imagine.
> 
> That will leave me some time to hunt for the originals.

Thanks again!

Glen
0/0


From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org  Wed Mar 27 22:38:24 2002
From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: DEC field veterans: what's KA64A's self test #21?
Message-ID: <3CA29E40.5070506@aurora.regenstrief.org>

Hi,

do you know what the KA64A's self test #21 is? I have two of these
boards that just won't come up, they both stop at

#123456789 0123456789 01

which means that test #21 fails. Even when I put these boards in
a collective with 4 other KA64As that at least complete the
system self test and get me to a console prompt, I get the error
that these two boards didn't get to console mode. What could be
wrong here?

Thanks for your help!
-Gunther


PS: Frederik, those are the boards that were ment to go to
you. This is bad news. I hope it is just some nasty configuration
problem. What exact ROM and EEPROM revisions do you need?

-- 
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org



From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 27 22:52:53 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: It saddens me to do this....
Message-ID: <20020328045429.HHAC27903.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Curt Vendel 

>    Back before Christmas I worked out a deal with Jeff Worley:
> 
> Jeffrey S. Worley
> Asheville, NC USA
> 828-6984887
> UberTechnoid@Home.com

I'm sorry to learn you were ripped off.  Thanks for the heads-up.

Glen
0/0




From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 27 22:57:38 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116 
Message-ID: <20020328045912.ZLVR20601.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Stan Barr 

> Just to confuse things further the schematic I have shows L1 pulling pin
> 19 of the 4118 up to 5V when that's installed, and no L2 at all!
> The text refers to 2x2114 or a 4118 installed in the UK version and a
> 2K option for export - possibly there are 2 versions of the board?

Damn near every one of these things I've seen has been different in *some*
way!

I'm sorting through and testing a couple of dozen right now -- more later.

Glen
0/0


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 27 23:10:42 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: TIME needed (was Re: info needed: Shinwa printer)
Message-ID: <20020328051218.ZSEZ20601.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Joe 

>    I picked one up today. This one is marked "Terminal Printer" and model
MH-4015+ but the FFC ID number says that it's made by Shinwa and it
lappears to be the same as the CPB-136. It's a dot matrix printer and it
has SIX printheads in it!

Six printheads?!?  Good grief Joe, how, where, & why do you come up with
all this stuff?  And how on earth do you find the time to play with the
stuff once you have it?  I still haven't found the time to check out all
the stuff you gave me six months ago . . . really, how do you do it?

Glen
0/0


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:15 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: <3CA25BE0.B4C8844A@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: 

Well, it has Digital Unix 3.2 on it, so I'm considering installing VMS
onto it.  This thing runs pretty nice, I'm not sure if I rather have VMS
on *nix on it...  If I do get VMS running on it, I might be wanting to get
rid of my VAXstation 3200 though. Hmm.

-- Pat


On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:

> this is a nice machine... I have a MINT 3000 model 900 myself in my
> collection, which is a 275mhz alpha processor. The 600 is a 175mhz processor.
> Still a nice machine. You can run it headless with a serial console, just do
> not plug a kb in, and plug the terminal into the serial port on the back. This
> machine can run OpenVMS , Tru64 or OSF/1 unix, Linux (although with some work)
> and Netbsd.  This is one of the alpha processors which CANNOT run NT... no
> loss there though...
>
>
>
>
> pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
>
> > Just got one of these bad boys from Pudue for $20 with a RZ26L,
> > framebuffer card with a 3W3 on it, CDROM, 128M of RAM, KN17 CPU.  Is the
> > RZ26 a 1G drive? And how clock speed is the proc?
> >
> > I know I made out with a steal - he had no idea what it was :)
> >
> > What kind of OS's are available besides NetBSD or Linux... Is there a
> > version of VMS or Ultrix that'll work?  Also, I didn't get a keyboard with
> > it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, and can I
> > use a serial terminal instead?
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> >
> > -- Pat
>
> --
> David Barnes
> davebarnes@adelphia.net
>
> OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> and collector of DEC equipment
>
>


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 27 23:33:16 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <20020328053451.XFZS18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> Why is size/weight important for a machine that's not designed as a
portable?

Because heavier items cost more to ship and therefore cost more to
purchase??
 
> And as regards price, I (and virtually everone else I know) would rather 
> pay enough and get something that's useable and reliable rather than pay 
> too little and get something that's useless. I know this is an 
> unconventional idea these days, though :-(

You are right on here.  People nowadays could care less about quality if
they can save five percent of an item's cost.

> > Granted, the QL would possibly have enjoyed more success that way, but 
> > Sinclair is Sinclair.
> 
> Unfortunately, he's ruined just about all of his products in this way :-(

It's true.  I'm a ZX81 fan because (as another listmember quipped) it's the
most minimalistic *full system* ever.  But Sinclair's products were all
plagued with cheap parts.  There are plenty of stories of how Sinclair
would change designs in the middle of a production run because they had
found a part that was ten cents cheaper, or they'd found a way to keep the
circuit intact while eliminating a couple of five-cent caps.

Glen
0/0


From geoffr at zipcon.net  Wed Mar 27 23:38:15 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: TIME needed (was Re: info needed: Shinwa printer)
In-Reply-To: <20020328051218.ZSEZ20601.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327213804.0281f400@mail.zipcon.net>

Sounds like a Highspeed printer to me.


At 12:10 AM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > From: Joe 
>
> >    I picked one up today. This one is marked "Terminal Printer" and model
>MH-4015+ but the FFC ID number says that it's made by Shinwa and it
>lappears to be the same as the CPB-136. It's a dot matrix printer and it
>has SIX printheads in it!
>
>Six printheads?!?  Good grief Joe, how, where, & why do you come up with
>all this stuff?  And how on earth do you find the time to play with the
>stuff once you have it?  I still haven't found the time to check out all
>the stuff you gave me six months ago . . . really, how do you do it?
>
>Glen
>0/0


From vance at ikickass.org  Wed Mar 27 23:55:16 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020327190007.00a7ad40@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, John Foust wrote:

> On the other hand, the UCSD P-system for the original IBM PC
> still runs in a command window in Windows 2000.  Out of the
> box compatibility after almost 20 years!

I once hacked OS/2 to run CP/M in a DOS box.  If memory serves, it wasn't
hard to do.

Peace...  Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 00:16:27 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Well, it has Digital Unix 3.2 on it, so I'm considering installing VMS
> onto it.  This thing runs pretty nice, I'm not sure if I rather have VMS
> on *nix on it...  If I do get VMS running on it, I might be wanting to get
> rid of my VAXstation 3200 though. Hmm.

  Digital Unix is pretty spiffy for its day.  Definitely get a bootable
backup before you whack it.  My DEC 2000 150axp had an early copy of
OSF/1 when I got it, and I still wish I had done a backup before I
hammered it.

	Doc


From donm at cts.com  Thu Mar 28 00:35:40 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> I picked up one of these today from Purdue Salvage.  Anyone have any
> useful software for it?  I might be willing to sell it if anyone's
> interested.  I was kinda disappointed... out of 6 or so Apple IIe's they
> got in, not one had an expansion card besides DiskII, the Z-Card and a
> printer interface.  Still looking for a SuperSerial card so I can copy
> data to it (and a copy of Disk Tools on 5-1/5" floppies for it)
>
> -- Pat

A local thrift store has a couple of DiskII drives available - had them
for a week or so - in case anyone is interested.  Don't recall the
price, but shouldn't be too high (relative to shipping).  Let me know,
and I can pick up and ship.
						 - don



From mhstein at canada.com  Thu Mar 28 02:19:43 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <01C1D607.6A034980@mse-d03>

I've got a couple of original sets as well, Version 1.1, 
just in case. The 2nd disk had demo progs IIRC.

mike

-------------Original Message------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:24:59 -0700
From: "Richard Erlacher" 
Subject: Re: Turbo BASIC (was Re: QL (was: ZX-81 Question))

I'm quite comfortable that I have the file sets, but as far as the original
diskettes ... I don't know.  I recall that I've got v1.0.  That was on only
one diskette, IIRC.

That will easily fit in a zip file and fly via the 'net, I'd imagine.

That will leave me some time to hunt for the originals.

Dick


From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Thu Mar 28 03:13:21 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:18:14 GMT."
              
Message-ID: <200203280913.JAA09638@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said:
> 
> > drive in (forget the Amstrad 3" wreckages, they're about as reliable as 
> > microdrives).
> 
> Odd... I've not used the Amstrad drives, but I've used the Hitachi 3" 
> drives with 'Amsoft' disks (who really made those? Maxell?) and never 
> lost a single byte. The disk mechanical construction is much better than 
> the 3.5" one as well...

I never had any problems with the Einstein 3-inch drives either, mostly
Maxell disks...I always thought they were a better design than the 3.5
inch disks as well.
-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From mhstein at canada.com  Thu Mar 28 03:27:35 2002
From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: SWTPc 6800 update
Message-ID: <01C1D610.E950EC20@mse-d03>

Thanks for the tip, Jeff; just browsed eBay and now that I have
a better idea what KIMs & AIMs are worth, I'll have to substantially
jack up the price of the AIM stuff I'm about to send ya :-)

Sounds reasonable, doesn't it Hans? Just to balance things out...

mike 

----------------Original Message----------------

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:49 +0100
From: "Hans Franke" 
Subject: Re: SWTPc 6800 update

> >    OK don't rub it in! :-/

> 	Rubbing it in would've been mentioning that the exact same 
> KIM-1 setup I just picked up for near nothing had an identical twin 
> on eBay go for $400..

Somehow I get the impression that you are not a very sensitive friend  :))

Trotzdem viel Spass
H.


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 28 03:44:02 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327210554.023f5de0@192.168.1.1>
References: <3CA1B83C.10603.3297A22@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA2F3F2.14937.7FAB8A5@localhost>

> > > > > This and that is still was a BASIC machine with no real disks.
> > > >Come on, first of all, a basic like the QL Super Sasic is quite
> > > >different from everything else you know ... QDOS is a multitasking
> > > >OS, and the Basic incooperates all features to use the windowing
> > > >and taskingsystem from within. it is jut not comperable to all the
> > > >MS-Basic crap found on 90% of all old homecomputers.
> > > Hmm...
> > > It *was* revolutionary for 1984, this is true.
> >And is still one of the best Basic around.

> Not really. It's LOCal handling is (always was) pants, it doesn't have 
> enough variable types, it won't do objects, and it needs line numbers. All 
> of which, I believe, are fixable with add-ons, none of which I have.

Now, as a remaining of the time when you had to punch a card
number in the first 8 columns of your source, I realy can't
see why line numbers are bad :) (ok, point taken). And things
like local storage and object and combined data types are maybe
a nice thing in visual bastic ... just, if you take away line
numbers and add all the other stuff, is it still basic ? Or
a new language wich inherits some features ? Back in the 70s
new Languages where created with way less differences.

> It was also a shame it was impossible to run multiple interpreters, 
> although that shortcoming was (partially) fixed by the legendary Simon 
> Goodwin with MultiBASIC.

Jep. here the integration of QDOS and SuperBasic was just weak.
I'd have whished way more handles to use all the nice stuff.

> > > However, QDos is not a
> > > /true/ multitasking OS; it relied on co-operative time-slicing. So, one
> > > badly written task could hog the whole machine (not uncommon...).
> >Well, true multitasking is as soon as one can have severale
> >tasks running quasi parallel. Cooperative or not doesn't matter.
> >In fact I'm a big fan of cooperative system - way less OS overhead
> >in terms of CPU usage.

> Point taken. I forget, did one have to do anything with the registers, or 
> was it a simple case of calling the appropriate TRAP?

Wasnit it both ? You always need machine code to do it.

> > > SuperBASIC was - still is - fantastic. It far outstripped ALL versions of
> > > BASIC available at the time, and (IMNSHO) was not really superceded until
> > > Visual Basic 2 or 3 - and even then, VB's main improvement was the forms
> > > designer. OTOH, the "window" facility was vastly over-rated. 
> > > Unfortunately,
> > > however, it wasn't possible to harness the tasking system from within
> > > SuperBASIC - that required machine code.
> >With the 'Pointer Environment' (?) the QL was way ahead.

> Good point. I never had PE (or ICE); still haven't. I must get around to 
> getting it one day, just to see what all the fuss was about...

>From todays point it may look only like a cheap, never finished
graphic shell, but in the mid 80s it was just great. Especialy
for a machine which still followed the ready made computer scheme
(read OS and Basic in ROM, in contrast to bare bone systems where
one has to load OS, Shell and interpreters).

The QL comes, of all production machines, closest to my whishes
and ideas of a computer in the early/mid 80s

> > > >And adding a disc controler wasn't that expansive (720K 3.5"), if
> > > >your need did ourtgrow the microdrives.
> > > Erm, it did back then... A basic single-disc system (3.5", 720K) +
> > > interface cost circa GBP400. The first Winchester disc systems (5MB) cost
> > > over GBP1000 when first available.
> >Which was a total rip of in both cases. Building a FDC for the
> >QL bus was straight foreward aut of the design handbook.

> Don't forget, the drives themselves were very expensive, especially the 
> Winchesters.

Shure, I was only talking about the FDs - and still, 400 GBP is
a rip off (ok, I'm not in a position to tell you - I bought my
first Apple disks at 2000 Mark (~600GBP) in 1979 - _used_!

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Thu Mar 28 05:45:42 2002
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020327232345.C300015@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> 
Message-ID: <20020328124542.A302571@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 06:20:14PM -0500, pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> > You need a special break out cable like on the DECstation 5000 2{0,4,6}0
> Does anyone have the pinout for this?  
Sorry, no.

> Or even better, does anyone have a
> pinout for both this and a Framebuffer Console cable that works with a
> VAXstation 3200 and 4-plane mono framebuffer- a BC18P?  
Hmm. I know that some VAXstations use a cable like this, and I know
that DEC changed the pinout of it at a time...

> Which serial port should I use? The DB25-P or the MMJ jack?
Uhh. It is DEC, so MMJ. But maybe the DB25? Can't remember. Just try. 
-- 



tsch??,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

From bpope at wordstock.com  Thu Mar 28 06:10:17 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: <014101c1d5e3$85332aa0$7d8f70d8@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Mar 27, 02 05:02:49 pm
Message-ID: <200203281210.HAA07631@wordstock.com>

And thusly John R. Keys Jr. spake:
> 
> Well today I went down to one of the warehouses to look around for some
> items I needed (didn't find them) and found the following items:
> 1. A box marked CP/M 2.2 for Commodore 64 in it was a manual and a large
> black cartridge ( it has a Z80 microprocessor in it). I'm missing the
> CP/M disk which contains both  the operating system and some utility
> programs.  If anyone has a copy email me off list. THANKS in advance.

John,

	Check out http://www.devili.iki.fi/Computers/Commodore/C64/CPM/ for all 
the info (and disk images) you need.

Cheers,

Bryan

From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 28 06:21:24 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: TIME needed (was Re: info needed: Shinwa printer)
In-Reply-To: <20020328051218.ZSEZ20601.imf00bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020328072124.00807840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 12:10 AM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> From: Joe 
>
>>    I picked one up today. This one is marked "Terminal Printer" and model
>MH-4015+ but the FFC ID number says that it's made by Shinwa and it
>lappears to be the same as the CPB-136. It's a dot matrix printer and it
>has SIX printheads in it!
>
>Six printheads?!?  Good grief Joe, how, where, & why do you come up with
>all this stuff?  And how on earth do you find the time to play with the
>stuff once you have it?  I still haven't found the time to check out all
>the stuff you gave me six months ago . . . really, how do you do it?

  Persistance Glen, persistance.  The printer came from my favorite scrap place. It's in Melbourne, you need to go down there with me one day. I try to get down there about every other week. Why? becuase it looked intersting and the price was right! I originally went down there to get some ribbon cable headers. I got the printer, the headers and some other goodies for about what it would have cost me to buy the headers alone around here.  

   Speaking of all that, is anyone familar with PSDoft from WSI?  It's some kind of program for designing logic circuits with WSI's Programable System Devices (PSDs). I also picked up a NIB package of that.

   Joe


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 28 07:37:19 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
Message-ID: <000c01c1d65d$affa3ec0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Richard Erlacher 

>There's plenty of CP/M software out there.  All you need to do is find one
of
>the mirrors of the late Tim Olmstead's unofficial CP/M site.

There are several still up, The last location of Tim's site is back up.

>original MSDOS' EDLIN.  The editor of choice for CP/M would probably be
>WordStar, of which there are several versions for CP/M.  It does come with
an

If you can find VEDIT, that is a very powerful screen editor with TECO macro
from the command mode.

>Select the editor you want, keeping in mind that little of this stuff is
much
>use without a hard disk, which is not "rocket science" to add, provided you
>can snag a drive of the CP/M era.  IDE drives are a mite more trouble, as
are
>SCSI types, but it's all been done.  The maximum size for a CP/M 2.2 (plain

IDE offers the easiest of the lot to get and interface if the board was hard
disk
impared.

>vanilla version) system is 8 MB, and you can only have as many as 16
drives,
>including the floppies.

Thats per logical drive.  A larger hard disk can be partitioned.
Or run one of the CP/M clones like P2DOS, ZRDOS, SUPRBDOS
as these have 32mb or higher logical disk limits.

>My understanding is that if you have a 60 MB drive,
>you can stick all the software that was ever published for CP/M, including
>sources, on it and still have room left.  Some folks disagree, but I almost

I'd agree, actually most of the good must have stuff will fit easily on a 10
to 20mb drive with room to spare.  The WC CP/M CDrom was I think under
100mb and that had whole libraries of several SIGs.

>believe that.  Somebody sent me a CD of CP/M stuff that purportedly
contained
>pretty much "everything" there was, and it was barely 10% utilized.
Several
>CD's have been published, but most have what amounts to multiple copies of
the
>same stuff on them, so their capacity is not representative of what you
might
>need storage-wise.

The Walnut Creek cdrom is by far the most complete and maybe 10% utilized.
It's out of print but copies can be had.  For serious CP/M users and
collectors
it's a must have along with the archivers used (ark, ARC, LHA, LBR...etal).


>Another thing to keep in mind is that the BigBoard runs at just over 2 MHz
>(2.5?).  I've got several but really haven't considered how fast they run
in
>the original version, because I'm into hot-rodding.  The software versions
I
>have don't use mode-2 interrupts, so one wonders why the designer used
those
>awkward Z80 peripherals that do little more than ensure that you can't run
the
>CPU faster than the peripherals, even though the CPU is quite capable of
it.
>Of course, the fact that the entire board is out of the Mostek and Zilog
>app-notes might explain that.

4mhz should be doable with minor effort.  faster is as Dick said hampered
by the lack of suitably fast Z80 peripherals.

Allison


From edick at idcomm.com  Thu Mar 28 08:04:24 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
References: 
Message-ID: <001201c1d661$77abbcc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

"Useful software" ... Hmmmm ...  There must be some, since these were pretty
popular.  I've never seen any, though.

I've got a couple of those "Disk II" drives that came with a IIe that I bought
to get the PSU.  The box, keyboard, mainboard, etc are all available, still,
since this one was a little different from others I've had.  Normally, they
don't even come in the house.

I'm in Denver, in case anybody local wants this stuff.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Maslin" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card


>
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:
>
> > I picked up one of these today from Purdue Salvage.  Anyone have any
> > useful software for it?  I might be willing to sell it if anyone's
> > interested.  I was kinda disappointed... out of 6 or so Apple IIe's they
> > got in, not one had an expansion card besides DiskII, the Z-Card and a
> > printer interface.  Still looking for a SuperSerial card so I can copy
> > data to it (and a copy of Disk Tools on 5-1/5" floppies for it)
> >
> > -- Pat
>
> A local thrift store has a couple of DiskII drives available - had them
> for a week or so - in case anyone is interested.  Don't recall the
> price, but shouldn't be too high (relative to shipping).  Let me know,
> and I can pick up and ship.
> - don
>
>
>


From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 28 08:28:17 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
References: <3.0.6.32.20020328072124.00807840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1d664$ce0cbee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Put simply:
Anybody have any horror stories about using digital 
data 8mm tapes in a Camcorder?
My personal belief is that they are overbuilt, if anything.

John A.



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 28 09:05:49 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA33F5D.19438.9215423@localhost>

> > A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
> > and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of 
> > computers running the P-System, not different instances of the same computer).
> > Was this true?
> NO
> although there were a few machines for which it would be true.

of Course yes ... well sort of - see below

> > Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
> > system B and run it successfully?
> > I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
> > limit this capability.

> You are correct; your friend AND the UCSD vendors weren't.
> SEVERAL systems would work, but their concept of a "universal format" was
> not thought through.  Due to disk hardware incompatabilities, it was NOT
> possible for Apple and IBM (just two as an example) to share a "universal
> disk format", although they DID advertise (FALSELY) exactly that.

Now, here we are talking about two things:
#1 is is the platform independant coding of an application, which
is accomplished by using the same structure across all platforms.
#2 is about different mass storage hardware. and here of course
an operating system could do next to nothing.

Because of #2 you raerly could use a disk from one system on another
system, so software distributors had to do media for each system.
Well, didn't we have the same situation even within the way more
homogenus environment of CP/M ? Where you had to state machine and
diskette format when ordering a copy of word star ?

(In fact I even remember the same situation for MS-DOS - at least
during the time when manufacturers still tried to build better
systems, and not just faster versions of the same old crap.)

There have been even GRAPHIC games which have been done in
UCSD P-Code and ported to other computers without big trouble.
One of the most classic games of all times: Wizardry.

> > Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single 
> > binary,
>   ^^^^^^
> The basic concept behind it was the distribution of software NOT as a
> binary, but as a platform independent "P-code" that was run on a
> "P-code" interpreter.

Well, the P code IS the binary format of the programms. Just as
the so called Bytecode is the binary format for Java.

> > but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
> > any brand/model of P-System?  (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
> > for every platform?)

> It combined all of the convenience of software development of a compiler
> with the speed of execution of an interpreter.

Well, the speed difference wasn't that big between the
result of 'real' Compilers (fortran for example) and
the UCSD-P version of Fortran. As so often it depended
on your kind of application.

Gruss
H.

BTW: Total different thing - has anybody erver tried to do a Java to
UCSD P-Code compiler ? Could be some fun :)



--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 28 09:09:13 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
In-Reply-To: Analog 8mm (John Allain)
References: <3.0.6.32.20020328072124.00807840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
	<004101c1d664$ce0cbee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <15523.12825.823504.168692@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 28, John Allain wrote:
> Put simply:
> Anybody have any horror stories about using digital 
> data 8mm tapes in a Camcorder?
> My personal belief is that they are overbuilt, if anything.

  No horror stories specifically, but I do recall from when the
Exabyte 8500 came out that the tapes that were sold for data use were
the only ones that worked reliably in the 5GB drives...I read at the
time that the magnetic characteristics of the media were
different...higher coercivity I think, but I don't have specific
information.

  For video use, I'd think there'd be nonlinear amplitude response at
best, but it's probably worth a try.

          -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 09:44:05 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Disk ][; Was Re: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
In-Reply-To: <001201c1d661$77abbcc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
> I've got a couple of those "Disk II" drives that came with a IIe that I bought
> to get the PSU.  The box, keyboard, mainboard, etc are all available, still,
> since this one was a little different from others I've had.  Normally, they
> don't even come in the house.

  OK, y'all are getting very close to answering one of my questions for
the day.
  Down at the scrappers', there are a couple of dozen Disk ][ drives,
boxed up, ready to get crushed with the rest of the 5.25" floppy drives.
Black-bezel internal and beige external.  (Are the beige ones
necessarily D-][s?)  If anybody wants I'll inquire as to price, but be
warned you'll have to buy a box, maybe 12-16 units.  Shipping singles is
more trouble than I'm willing to go to.  Sorry.

	Doc


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 09:47:52 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
Message-ID: 

  Somebody recently posted a fairly comprehensive list of floppy drive
model #s with their capacities & base specs.  I'd like to grab a few
not-1.2M drives before we scrap them, but I've misplaced the list.
Would whoever it was be willing to repost?

  Thanks
    Doc


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 09:52:09 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA26BEE.BAD61813@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <20020328155210.97674.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ben Franchuk  wrote:
> Stan Sieler wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile
> > once" and then "run anywhere"...
> > 
> > Was this true?

AFAIK, the program would run if you could get the p-code to the target
system (disk format incompatibilities and what not).  I do not know
how compatible things like user interface and I/O access were.

What I'm not sure is, for instance, how a program formatted to look nice
on an 80-col mono PC will look on a 40-col Apple II.  Plus, what about
file names?  Did the P-System enforce the least common denominator?

> Funny that is what JAVA claims to be!  I do remember that P-System had
> its own operating system.So only disk/console I/O and a p-code engine
> had to be written for a new machine.
> Too bad it was not open source! 

The one engine I know of that was the closest to "write once, run
anywhere" was Infocom's Zork Implementation Program (ZIP).  Stuff written
for it in 1984 runs on Palm Pilots today, and stuff compiled today (in
the language "Inform") runs on the C-64 ZIP written in 1984.  ZIPs were
originally written for the TRS-80, CP/M, PDP-11 (RT-11?), C-64, Atari,
Apple, Amiga, Mac, and a few others (I managed to port the C-64 ZIP
to the VIC-20, but you need a non-stock machine with a full boat of RAM
if you want to play a game without wearing out the diskette; the PET
version is still being debugged)  Modern run-time platforms are written
in C for VMS, UNIX, Palm Pilot, or whatever you want.  I'm fairly sure
there's a run-time written in Java, too.

As a platform for a general-purpose language, there are some limitations
that restrict programs written for the ZIP run-time.  It does not provide
file I/O other than reading in the code and data of the target rogram, and
writing the modifiable pages (user-writable data) to disk.  There is a
journaling print function and that's about it.  There is a limited amount
of raw variable storage, but you can extend that with a finite amount of
user-definable objects. 

The curious should take a gander at ftp.gmd.de - lots of good stuff
there.  The original Infocom code isn't open source, but fully compatible
modern implementations are.  Look in directories named "infocom" and
"inform" for this stuff.  There's lots of other text adventure platforms
out there, and most of them have a home on GMD.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 10:00:52 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020327151116.01395ba8@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <20020328160052.59827.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roger Merchberger  wrote:
> Rumor has it that Paul Thompson may have mentioned these words:
> 
> >There is a utility called persona that will work on recent versions of 
> >VMS...

> [snip]
> >10$:
> >        ; MOVAB ROUT1,M_DESC            ; Done at initialization
> >        PUSHAL  PROMP
> >        PUSHAL  P_DESC
> [snip]
> 
> Is this an example of VAX/VMS assembly language?

Yes.  It's usually referred to in VMS circles as just "MACRO" or
"VAX MACRO" if there's any ambiguity.  I've written about two
programs in it ever (one time-conversion routine to extract Unix-
style "seconds-since-1970" from VMS's "200ns-intervals-since-Sept-
17th-1758", and one VAX-BI device driver).

> And if so, what would a good reference be to learn it?

DEC used to put out a bunch of titles, and I know some people
had to buy textbooks for CS classes.  I found one or two titles
(and ordered one for $5!) from Amazon's used section, searching
for the keyword "VAX".

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From marvin at rain.org  Thu Mar 28 10:02:13 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
References: <3.0.6.32.20020328072124.00807840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <004101c1d664$ce0cbee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
Message-ID: <3CA33E85.3C88F82D@rain.org>


A friend tried using the 8mm DAT tapes but for some reason, the quality
didn't seem as good as regular VHS tape. I didn't pursue it any further,
but it may have been the tapes themselves could have been the problem as
they were used.

John Allain wrote:
> 
> Put simply:
> Anybody have any horror stories about using digital
> data 8mm tapes in a Camcorder?
> My personal belief is that they are overbuilt, if anything.
> 
> John A.

From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 10:06:16 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Does anyone have the pinout for this?  Or even better, does anyone have a
> pinout for both this and a Framebuffer Console cable that works with a
> VAXstation 3200 and 4-plane mono framebuffer- a BC18P?  OR should I just
> try to plug it in?  I want to get some sort of confirmation that it won't
> blow up my keyboard or DEC3000 first.

  The kbd/mouse dongle pinouts are posted on the web somewhere.  Try
Googling "dec 3000/300x pinout" or something.  I looked briefly last
night and can't find it, but it's out there.

> > > can I use a serial terminal instead?
> > Flip S3 on the back to force the machine to serial console. Have a look
> > at ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/dec-docs/index.html#alpha-sys-dec3000
> > --
>
> Which serial port should I use? The DB25-P or the MMJ jack?

  The 3000/300 doesn't have the S3, you just don't plug in a keyboard.
I believe the MMJ is the console port.  Won't hurt a derned thing if you
get it wrong, though.
  One warning though, give it a few minutes before you decide you're on
the wrong port.  My 3000/300x doesn't display the boot codes & testing
till it's all done which is a couple of minutes.


	Doc


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 28 10:07:40 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question)
References: <3CA1B83C.10603.3297A22@localhost> <3CA2F3F2.14937.7FAB8A5@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA33FCC.28A233D@jetnet.ab.ca>

Hans Franke wrote:
> Now, as a remaining of the time when you had to punch a card
> number in the first 8 columns of your source, I realy can't
> see why line numbers are bad :) (ok, point taken). And things
> like local storage and object and combined data types are maybe
> a nice thing in visual bastic ... just, if you take away line
> numbers and add all the other stuff, is it still basic ? Or
> a new language wich inherits some features ? Back in the 70s
> new Languages where created with way less differences.

Line numbers are more do to the fact that most people had hard copy i/o
devices for terminals and simple text editors. The minimum BASIC had
only a few commands LET, IF, PRINT , READ?? ,LIST , DEL,NEW, STOP ,
GOSUB , RETURN , RUN, GOTO. A new line often was re-entered rather
edited as it was easier than editing a line on a TTY.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 28 10:26:20 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
Message-ID: <001001c1d675$4c49b0a0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

My $0.02:

Grab any known good TEAC FD55 (any model).

    FD55B  40 track two sided (does most all 40track formats)
    FD55F  80track two sided (not 1.2m capable)
    FD55G  80track two sided (does all 80 track formats plus 1.2m)

They are common and decently reliable.  With one of the FD55B, FD55G
and an older  3.5" (720/1.44)  that gets me most all drive related formats 
save for the oddball 5.25" drives (like the 100tpi stuff).

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Doc Shipley 
To: Classic Computers 
Date: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers


>  Somebody recently posted a fairly comprehensive list of floppy drive
>model #s with their capacities & base specs.  I'd like to grab a few
>not-1.2M drives before we scrap them, but I've misplaced the list.
>Would whoever it was be willing to repost?
>
>  Thanks
>    Doc
>


From eklein at impac.com  Thu Mar 28 10:29:22 2002
From: eklein at impac.com (Erik S. Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <018a01c1d675$b866ff40$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>

Before you scrap them?

I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
to dual drive status.

Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives?  Or better yet, a
source for getting them repaired?

Erik S. Klein


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]  On Behalf Of Doc Shipley
Sent:	Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:48 AM
To:	Classic Computers
Subject:	5.25" floppy model numbers

  Somebody recently posted a fairly comprehensive list of floppy drive
model #s with their capacities & base specs.  I'd like to grab a few
not-1.2M drives before we scrap them, but I've misplaced the list.
Would whoever it was be willing to repost?

  Thanks
    Doc


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Mar 28 10:39:49 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
Message-ID: <114.ecc07f1.29d4a155@aol.com>

I have had no problem using Data tapes in my HI8 camcorder. They are the 
equivalent to regular 8 mm tapes and give me 240 lines of resolution, not the 
400 lines of high 8 resolution.

Mechanically I have had no problems either.

Paxton
Astoria, OR

From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Thu Mar 28 10:43:52 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: Disk ][; Was Re: Apple IIe w/ALS Z-card
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Also, if anyone wants the Apple //e's Disk ]['s or DuoDisk drives (about
threee of each kind of drive), let me know, the price will be about $10
for a system $5 for a drive I'd guess.  Doubtful anyone's interested, but
just checking before they throw the stuff out.

-- Pat


On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> >
> > I've got a couple of those "Disk II" drives that came with a IIe that I bought
> > to get the PSU.  The box, keyboard, mainboard, etc are all available, still,
> > since this one was a little different from others I've had.  Normally, they
> > don't even come in the house.
>
>   OK, y'all are getting very close to answering one of my questions for
> the day.
>   Down at the scrappers', there are a couple of dozen Disk ][ drives,
> boxed up, ready to get crushed with the rest of the 5.25" floppy drives.
> Black-bezel internal and beige external.  (Are the beige ones
> necessarily D-][s?)  If anybody wants I'll inquire as to price, but be
> warned you'll have to buy a box, maybe 12-16 units.  Shipping singles is
> more trouble than I'm willing to go to.  Sorry.
>
> 	Doc
>


From lists at subatomix.com  Thu Mar 28 11:03:23 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
Message-ID: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>

This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks like
it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there. On
the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA". The top middle had the
"200415-03" handwritten on it, but that has been crossed out by a marker,
and "200850-02" appears beneath it. The top right has "S/N 5781"
handwritten. There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
at the front top. On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42
200255-02", machine printed. A little to the left of that is "3183",
handwritten.

Google has returned nothing. What have I here?

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 28 11:07:32 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID (Jeffrey Sharp)
References: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: <15523.19924.954734.406874@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 28, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
> This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks like
> it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
> number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there. On
> the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA". The top middle had the
> "200415-03" handwritten on it, but that has been crossed out by a marker,
> and "200850-02" appears beneath it. The top right has "S/N 5781"
> handwritten. There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
> at the front top. On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42
> 200255-02", machine printed. A little to the left of that is "3183",
> handwritten.
> 
> Google has returned nothing. What have I here?

  Hmm...got pics?

    -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 11:18:03 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
In-Reply-To: <018a01c1d675$b866ff40$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote:

> I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
> to dual drive status.

  If you know the make & model, I'll look.

> Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives?  Or better yet, a
> source for getting them repaired?

  Me.  No.   :)

	Doc


From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 28 11:27:11 2002
From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA33F5D.19438.9215423@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Mar 28,
 2002 04:05:49 pm"
Message-ID: <200203281727.JAA09506@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu>

> > It combined all of the convenience of software development of a compiler
> > with the speed of execution of an interpreter.
> 
> Well, the speed difference wasn't that big between the
> result of 'real' Compilers (fortran for example) and
> the UCSD-P version of Fortran. As so often it depended
> on your kind of application.

It also depended upon how the virtual machine was implemented.  The
Apple Pascal virtual machine was horrible.  Compiled Pascal programs
ran slower than their equivalent in interpreted Applesoft BASIC.

An another note, I have a UCSD-P Fortran for Macintosh, but I can't
use it because I don't have the UCSD-P system for Mac.  Anyone have
this sitting on a dusty shelf somewhere?

Eric


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Thu Mar 28 12:06:58 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA33F5D.19438.9215423@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
> Now, here we are talking about two things:
> #1 is is the platform independant coding of an application, which
> is accomplished by using the same structure across all platforms.
They did a good job.
> #2 is about different mass storage hardware. and here of course
> an operating system could do next to nothing.
Their making of such a claim was extremely reprehensible.
They claimed to have a "Universal disk format" that would work with ALL
computers.  That was NEVER true and was false advertising.
But it WAS possible, just through attempts at standardization to reduce
the format count to a handful (maybe a dozen?), instead of the thousands
of CP/M formats and the dozens of MS-DOS formats. (see the list at:
http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html
which is just the soft-sectored double density ones)


> Because of #2 you rarely could use a disk from one system on another
> . . .  
> (In fact I even remember the same situation for MS-DOS - at least

The number of formats could have easily been limited to one for each type
of hardware.
I had a brief discussion of that with Gary Kildall.
Me: What is the standard format for 5.25" double density?
Gary: 8" single density.
He held to his convictions of NOT diluting the standard by having a
secondary (5.25") standard format.

> > The basic concept behind it was the distribution of software NOT as a
> > binary, but as a platform independent "P-code" that was run on a
> > "P-code" interpreter.
> Well, the P code IS the binary format of the programms. Just as
> the so called Bytecode is the binary format for Java.

Most people think of "binary" as meaning the NATIVE executable form of a
program.
By having the input to the P-system interpreter in a non human readable
form, it added the additional benefit of making it more difficult to make
any changes without going back through the compiler process.

> > It combined all of the convenience of software development of a compiler
> > with the speed of execution of an interpreter.

> Well, the speed difference wasn't that big between the
> result of 'real' Compilers (fortran for example) and
> the UCSD-P version of Fortran. As so often it depended
> on your kind of application.
Some of the P-Code engines were VERY well written.  V some compilers, ...
The PC-DOS Fortran compiler 1.0 (written by MICROS~1, sold by IBM) when
running a sieve of Erastothanes (a common benchmark in those days) was
SLOWER than the MICROS~1 ROM BASIC interpreter!
Bob Wallace (PC-Write), who wrote the MICROS~1 Pascal compiler, advised to
NEVER EVER use the supplied run-time library.


> BTW: Total different thing - has anybody erver tried to do a Java to
> UCSD P-Code compiler ? Could be some fun :)
Or a P-code interpreter written in java?
Or java virtual machine written in P-Code?


Two more fun parts of the UCSD P-System:
It would not/could not save a file in non-contiguous space.  Thus you
could have hundreds of K of free space, but not necessarily enough
contiguous to save a file.  Periodically you had to run their
"CRUNCH" program to defragment.  Hope that nothing goes wrong DURING that
process!

When storing a 16 bit integer (such as starting block number in a
directory entry) in two bytes, do you put the MSB (most significant byte)
or LSB (least significant byte first?  That was NOT standardized on
P-System disk formats!!  Thus, Intel based machines were LSB first;
Motorola based machines were MSB first.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:54 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:49 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d675$4c49b0a0$3a7b7b7b@ajp>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Allison wrote:
> My $0.02:
> Grab any known good TEAC FD55 (any model).
>     FD55B  40 track two sided (does most all 40track formats)
>     FD55F  80track two sided (not 1.2m capable)
>     FD55G  80track two sided (does all 80 track formats plus 1.2m)
The comparable Shugart/Matsushita numbers were 455, 465, 475
Mitsubishi 4852, 4853, 4854?



From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 12:18:15 2002
From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: HPIB programming assistance
Message-ID: 

Hey guys,

I am working on a project to breath life back into some old hardware. I 
order to do so, I need some documentation / assistance in writing low-level 
routines to talk to various HPIB devices. Specifically: I would like to talk 
to a HP 7978 tape drive, a CS80 compatible tape drive, or a common HPIB disk 
drive.

I don't need help with HPIB protocol, I need to know the sequence of 
commands (sent across the bus) to move data into and out of those devices. I 
would expect to find this information in the programming manuals for those 
devices but so far, have been unable to locate the docs.

If anyone can provide documentation for any of those devices or has 
experience programming them, I'd appreciate the assistance.

Thanks,
SteveRob

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 28 12:35:19 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3CA33F5D.19438.9215423@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA37077.2624.9E11F91@localhost>

Date sent:      	Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:06:58 -0800 (PST)
From:           	"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" 
To:             	classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject:        	Re: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@classiccmp.org

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
> > Now, here we are talking about two things:
> > #1 is is the platform independant coding of an application, which
> > is accomplished by using the same structure across all platforms.
> They did a good job.

And that's what what I refer to if I speek of platform independant
(in the same sense as Java claims it). Never ment to be optimal.
We all know there's only one real high level language :)

> > Because of #2 you rarely could use a disk from one system on another
> > . . .  
> > (In fact I even remember the same situation for MS-DOS - at least

> The number of formats could have easily been limited to one for each type
> of hardware.
> I had a brief discussion of that with Gary Kildall.
> Me: What is the standard format for 5.25" double density?
> Gary: 8" single density.
> He held to his convictions of NOT diluting the standard by having a
> secondary (5.25") standard format.

Interesting statement ... 

> > > The basic concept behind it was the distribution of software NOT as a
> > > binary, but as a platform independent "P-code" that was run on a
> > > "P-code" interpreter.
> > Well, the P code IS the binary format of the programms. Just as
> > the so called Bytecode is the binary format for Java.

> Most people think of "binary" as meaning the NATIVE executable form of a
> program.
> By having the input to the P-system interpreter in a non human readable
> form, it added the additional benefit of making it more difficult to make
> any changes without going back through the compiler process.

Well, the P-System wasn't just a Pascal interpreter where each statement
was converted into a token and then interpreted, but rather a real system
of compilers for a (somewhat weired) CPU, which later on was emulated on
the host system (or not, if the host was a Micro Engine). in fact a concet
not uncommon in the mainframe world. The /370 ISA was just an abstract CPU
model for the programmer - even the OS people. The real CPU did change from
model to model and from manufacturer to manufacttuerer. Rarely that the code
was native, sometimes even draged over two or three levels of microcode. I've
always viewed the P-Code machine quite similar back than (Sorry, /370 was and
is my world). The interpreter was just the microprogramm, specific to the
actual hardware to supply the ISA for all programming. There have been good
and bad implementations ... to be honest, some bad implementations in the /370
world have been bad by design - the customer bought a machine good for xyz kOp/s
and if they bought the 'upgrade' packet, all they got was a new microcode disk
whare some coding was 'better' (read less nops).

The UCSD system could have been the real unifying OS - if they hadn't shoot
themself all the time - you named altready much of the incompatibility madness.

> > > It combined all of the convenience of software development of a compiler
> > > with the speed of execution of an interpreter.
> > Well, the speed difference wasn't that big between the
> > result of 'real' Compilers (fortran for example) and
> > the UCSD-P version of Fortran. As so often it depended
> > on your kind of application.
> Some of the P-Code engines were VERY well written.  V some compilers, ...
> The PC-DOS Fortran compiler 1.0 (written by MICROS~1, sold by IBM) when
> running a sieve of Erastothanes (a common benchmark in those days) was
> SLOWER than the MICROS~1 ROM BASIC interpreter!
> Bob Wallace (PC-Write), who wrote the MICROS~1 Pascal compiler, advised to
> NEVER EVER use the supplied run-time library.

The standard Apple machine was at least in the beginnig as worse
as it could get.

> > BTW: Total different thing - has anybody erver tried to do a Java to
> > UCSD P-Code compiler ? Could be some fun :)
> Or a P-code interpreter written in java?
> Or java virtual machine written in P-Code?

Hmm... Naaa !

I was thinking more along the lines of just another compiler.
Basic, Fortran, Cobol, Pascal and finaly Java :)

> Two more fun parts of the UCSD P-System:
> It would not/could not save a file in non-contiguous space.  Thus you
> could have hundreds of K of free space, but not necessarily enough
> contiguous to save a file.  Periodically you had to run their
> "CRUNCH" program to defragment.  Hope that nothing goes wrong DURING that
> process!

Oh ja, several seconds of nail biteing ....

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From cisin at xenosoft.com  Thu Mar 28 12:38:00 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <20020328155210.97674.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>  Plus, what about
> file names?  Did the P-System enforce the least common denominator?

No
The P-system had its own filename system.


From lists at subatomix.com  Thu Mar 28 12:41:22 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: <15523.19924.954734.406874@phaduka.neurotica.com>
References: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>
 <15523.19924.954734.406874@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <198425626738.20020328124122@subatomix.com>

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> On March 28, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
>
>> This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks like
>> it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
>> number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there. On
>> the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA". The top middle had the
>> "200415-03" handwritten on it, but that has been crossed out by a marker,
>> and "200850-02" appears beneath it. The top right has "S/N 5781"
>> handwritten. There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
>> at the front top. On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42
>> 200255-02", machine printed. A little to the left of that is "3183",
>> handwritten.
>> 
>> Google has returned nothing. What have I here?
>
>   Hmm...got pics?

http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/front.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontl.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontm.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontr.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/back.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backl.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backm.jpg
http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backr.jpg

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From ernestls at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 12:42:38 2002
From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Hey Sellam
In-Reply-To: <001201c1d661$77abbcc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 


Have you been getting my Emails? We need to talk about our possible deal.
Soon.

Ernest


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 28 12:51:22 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: Re: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID (Jeffrey Sharp)
References: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>
	<15523.19924.954734.406874@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<198425626738.20020328124122@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: <15523.26154.267179.832098@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 28, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/front.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontl.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontm.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/frontr.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/back.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backl.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backm.jpg
> http://www.subatomix.com/etc/umb/backr.jpg

  Wow, there are a *lot* of jellybeans on that board.  I'm sorry but I
have no clue what that is.

         -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:05:49 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <200203271856.SAA05327@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Mar 27, 2 06:56:52 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1273 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/17aa0e3a/attachment.ksh
From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Thu Mar 28 13:06:32 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
Message-ID: <000f01c1d68b$adebe240$3a7b7b7b@ajp>

From: Eric J. Korpela 

>It also depended upon how the virtual machine was implemented.  The
>Apple Pascal virtual machine was horrible.  Compiled Pascal programs
>ran slower than their equivalent in interpreted Applesoft BASIC.

I'd agree though it made it possible to run the sources on a Z80 S100 crate,
a trs-80 and an apple and moveing the code around was done with a
simple serial utility (lack of common disk format!).

The best platform other than the microengine was PDP-11,  The z80
wasn't too bad (comparable to Cbasic).

Allison


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 13:07:00 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: <20020328190700.33594.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jeffrey Sharp  wrote:
> This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks
> like
> it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
> number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there.

Typical of non-DEC boards.  If you bought handles from DEC at all, you
bought the generic (unstamped) ones.  Some people engineered their own
fastener (EMC?  Emulex?) for later designs to reduce the amount of money
per board that ended up in DEC's pockets (reducing manufacturing costs).
We always used DEC handles; our volumes were low enough that even at,
ISTR, $20 per handle, it wasn't worth us designing our own.

> On the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA"...

Hmm... "AD"... Analog Devices?  Anybody else use "AD" in their part
numbers?

> There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
> at the front top.

Not necessarily - most DEC and 3rd-party peripherals used 40-pina
and 50-pin BERG connectors (40-pin: DMF-32, DL-11 and other serial
interfaces, RL11, COMBOARD serial _and_ parallel ports, etc.  50-pin:
Emulex serial cards (dual DZ-11 or DH-11 emulators), TU-80 (Pertec
interface), a real DZ11, RQDX[123], SCSI, etc.). 

I'm not saying it _can't_ be a tape interface, but I am saying that
2 x 50-pin-BERG does not a Pertec interface make.

> On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42 200255-02"...

No idea what that is.

> Google has returned nothing. What have I here?

I studied the pictures.  A scan of the board near the BERG connectors
showing the part numbers of the interface chips for the external
device might be illuminating.  I do not know what was commonly used
for tape devices, but it might help to establish if this is some
kind of lab I/O module or tape controller or what.  Since there are
no 40-pin (6402s) or other ICs larger than about 20 pins (like a 24?
pin Motorola UART), I doubt it's a serial card.

You do, indeed, have an enigma (not an Enigma ;-)

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From csmith at amdocs.com  Thu Mar 28 13:12:54 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BB7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de]

> We all know there's only one real high level language :)

German?

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Mar 28 13:16:54 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: <118419747875.20020328110323@subatomix.com>
Message-ID: 

>This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks like
>it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
>number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there. On
>the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA". The top middle had the
>"200415-03" handwritten on it, but that has been crossed out by a marker,
>and "200850-02" appears beneath it. The top right has "S/N 5781"
>handwritten. There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
>at the front top. On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42
>200255-02", machine printed. A little to the left of that is "3183",
>handwritten.
>
>Google has returned nothing. What have I here?

Just a major WAG, but since it says AD413A in one spot it could be an
"Analog to Digital Converter".  Though two 50-pin connectors seem an awful
lot for that.

When you say 50-pin the first thing that comes to mind is SCSI, HOWEVER, I
think it's safe to say it's not that based on the chips.  There is
something else that uses 50-pin connectors, but I'm to tired to remember.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Mar 28 13:23:34 2002
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BB7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3CA37BC6.8229.A0D4BAC@localhost>

> > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
> German?

Well, if we want to talk about serious, human stuff yes,
but otherwise its Assembly :)

H.

--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 13:26:29 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: OS/2 Warp Connect
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020327161045.00820100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20020328192629.26483.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Joe  wrote:
>   I spotted a box with version 3 in a store in Melbourne today...

I didn't know you were in that area.  I have a good friend from grade
school who lives in Melbourne Beach.  The last time I visited him
was, ISTR, 1994.  If I ever go back for another visit (didn't care
for Florida in June!), I'll give you a shout.

Cheers,

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Thu Mar 28 13:33:58 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: More VMS
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA37026.BA1EAC40@Vishay.com>

Ahem, ...

Paul Thompson wrote:
...
> There is a utility called persona that will work on recent versions of
> VMS which effectively works like su.  You would need to install it with
> priv's in order not to be running those priv's needed to run it in your
> usual account.

Not too much of a concern for private use, but be careful if doing so in
a sensitive environment: this can open a BIG security hole!

This utility were far better off if it would ask for a password and
compare to the SYSUAF before letting you become SYSTEM, as the
originally asked-for "su -" would do, too.

> LINK PERSONA.MAR (LINK/SYSEXE on alpha, as I recall)

(from another post:)

> > >LINK PERSONA.MAR (LINK/SYSEXE on alpha, as I recall)
> 
> Ooops, LINK PERSONA.OBJ

Or simply

	MACRO PERSONA
	LINK PERSONA

After all, that's what default file types were invented for! ;-)

The PERSONA system services appeared in VMS V6.2, so this is the minimum
version for this utility to work.

--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:36:22 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328005403.018b0f10@192.168.1.1> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 28, 2 00:59:57 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2631 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/38a2339b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:40:00 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020327205002.00819430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 27, 2 08:50:02 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1423 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/3b9458d2/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:50:14 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020327210806.00818210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 27, 2 09:08:06 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2661 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/866ecfe7/attachment.ksh
From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 13:50:50 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BB7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de]
>
> > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
>
> German?

  C#?

 See Doc.  See Doc Run....

	Doc


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 13:52:00 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: More VMS 
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020328003205.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020328195200.75498.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Huw Davies  wrote:
> At 10:16 AM 27/03/2002 +0000, Alan Pearson wrote:
> >As an aside to the current VMS discussion, does anyone know
> >of an equivalent to the Unix "su -" command for VMS?
>
> 3) I suspect that someone will have created a SU program as well - this 
> isn't too hard to write (not that I'm volunteering).

We used to have one back in the old days.  It had to be installed
with CMKRNL so that it could poke around in the process header
space.  It was VMS-version specific because it poked values into
your process header using compile-time offset constants.  I remember
there was one small bit of odd behavior relating to VMS privs that
was non-intuitive, but for 99.997% of what we did, you *became* that
other user.

Very dangerous stuff.  VMS will crash if you do the wrong thing when
in Kernal Mode.  We had a couple of utilities that had to be rebuilt
when we updated VMS - one that did an "su" and one that worked like
"w" (telling you all about the other login processes, including what
command they were running and some other stuff that SHOW PROCESS didn't
show you).

These were written in the VMS 3.6ish days and brought along to VMS 4.x.
I could dig them out, but I doubt they were ever ported to VMS 5.x,
let alone anything "modern".

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 13:57:39 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: QL (was: ZX-81 Question) 
In-Reply-To: <200203270915.JAA30180@citadel.metropolis.local>
Message-ID: <20020328195740.62942.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Stan Barr  wrote:
> Just been getting some old BASIC-PLUS games transferred to my
> PDP-11 emulator running RSTS/E...good fun...just need an
> adventure in basic.

Scott Adams "Adventureland" and "Pirate's Adventure" were available
in BASIC for the PET and TRS-80.  The TRS-80 version was printed
in the Byte issue in the late-1970s-to-early-1980s with the
theme "Games" and a picture of pirates and other nasties creeping up
on an unsuspecting user in the foreground.  If I could remember the
year, I'd provide it.

Needs a minimum of 16K (external data file required); with 24K, you
can have the data statements and the engine in memory at the same time.

Sloooow, though.  I learned machine language on the PET to speed up
those games (it worked, too!)

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 13:59:18 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: RS232 (was: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <005901c1d602$d5b3e5e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 27, 2 07:47:00 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2722 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/78ff0033/attachment.ksh
From vance at ikickass.org  Thu Mar 28 14:08:14 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BB7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:

> > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
>
> German?

No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.

Peace...  Sridhar


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 14:14:30 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020328201430.99365.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Doc  wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de]
> >
> > > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
> >
> > German?
> 
>   C#?
> 
>  See Doc.  See Doc Run....

Duck, Doc. Duck!

-ethan
 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From bshannon at tiac.net  Thu Mar 28 14:28:41 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Z80 BigBoard ID Needed
References: <200203160403.g2G43IH10633@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3.0.5.32.20020327152927.008fd400@ubanproductions.com>
Message-ID: <3CA37CF9.223D7122@tiac.net>

In theory, I have the original disk for that BigBoard, if only I could find it...

Remember, its missing that one TTL chip...

Tom Uban wrote:

> Ok, I now have a BigBoard and 8" SSSD floppy (thanks Bob!)... now I am looking
> for some software to run on it. My wish list is a copy of CPM, an editor (does
> CPM come with one, I don't recall), a good z80 assembler, and kermit (or
> similar
> serial transfer program). All on single sided 8" floppies. Do you happen to
> have
> any of these?
>
> I can provide the floppies if someone can make the copies for me.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --tom


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 14:32:37 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
In-Reply-To: <018a01c1d675$b866ff40$e6f8b8ce@impac.com> from "Erik S. Klein" at Mar 28, 2 08:29:22 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 895 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/9f7819a6/attachment.ksh
From ernestls at attbi.com  Thu Mar 28 14:38:35 2002
From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: TRW Swap Meet, was Re: Trip to Pasadena, CA
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020327124115.02e365f8@mail.njd.concentric.com>
Message-ID: 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Eros
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:45 AM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: TRW Swap Meet, was Re: Trip to Pasadena, CA
> 
> 
> My wife and kids are gonna kill me.  We're staying at the Sheraton Four 
> Points right near LAX because it's so close to Manhattan Beach.  We're 
> already planning do hit some Manhattan Beach yard sales on Saturday, so 
> this'll be perfect.  For me anyway... :-)

I used to live in Manhattan Beach! It's a beautiful place, with beautiful 
Women, er, I mean people. If you should find yourself on Highland Ave. at
lunch time, I highly recommend eating at the Annex Deli. They have the 
best sandwiches that you will ever find, anywhere. If you see Skip (the
owner,) tell him that Ernest said hello. It's been a while but he might
still remember me since I worked there as a kid. He also dated my Sister,
which accounted for several fat raises in my modest pay check. Hehe.

E. 

From donm at cts.com  Thu Mar 28 15:48:08 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
In-Reply-To: <018a01c1d675$b866ff40$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: 



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote:

> Before you scrap them?
>
> I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
> to dual drive status.

Be advised that the Osborne drives are not directly interchangeable with
`normal' 5.25" drives.  The ribbon cable to the card edge carries drive
power as well as signals and is wired differently.  You will need to
conjure an adapter to use normal ones.
						 - don

> Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives?  Or better yet, a
> source for getting them repaired?
>
> Erik S. Klein
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]  On Behalf Of Doc Shipley
> Sent:	Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:48 AM
> To:	Classic Computers
> Subject:	5.25" floppy model numbers
>
>   Somebody recently posted a fairly comprehensive list of floppy drive
> model #s with their capacities & base specs.  I'd like to grab a few
> not-1.2M drives before we scrap them, but I've misplaced the list.
> Would whoever it was be willing to repost?
>
>   Thanks
>     Doc
>
>


From donm at cts.com  Thu Mar 28 16:01:56 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UNIBUS Mystery Board ID
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >This hex-width board was found sitting in a UNIBUS backplane. It looks like
> >it may have more than two PCB layers. The metal handle, where the board
> >number is usually stamped, is unmarked; no board number is stamped there. On
> >the front side, top left, is "AD413A MADE IN USA". The top middle had the
> >"200415-03" handwritten on it, but that has been crossed out by a marker,
> >and "200850-02" appears beneath it. The top right has "S/N 5781"
> >handwritten. There are two 50-pin BERG (maybe formatted Pertec) connectors
> >at the front top. On the back of the board, at the top right, is "MRX42
> >200255-02", machine printed. A little to the left of that is "3183",
> >handwritten.
> >
> >Google has returned nothing. What have I here?
>
> Just a major WAG, but since it says AD413A in one spot it could be an
> "Analog to Digital Converter".  Though two 50-pin connectors seem an awful
> lot for that.
>
> When you say 50-pin the first thing that comes to mind is SCSI, HOWEVER, I
> think it's safe to say it's not that based on the chips.  There is
> something else that uses 50-pin connectors, but I'm to tired to remember.

Eight inch floppy disk drive.
						 - don

>
> 		Zane
> --
> | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
> | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
> |                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
> |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
> |          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
> |                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |
>


From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Mar 28 16:04:19 2002
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BB7@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020328170419.00ecb2e0@mail.30below.com>

Rumor has it that Doc may have mentioned these words:
>On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de]
>>
>> > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
>>
>> German?
>
>  C#?
>
> See Doc.  See Doc Run....

See Doc get pegged with a frozen mackerel... ;-)

"Merch"
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   ---   sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right???  Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.

If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.


From Sanity_not_vanity at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 16:08:21 2002
From: Sanity_not_vanity at hotmail.com (Andrew Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Spam from _sring@uslink.net?
Message-ID: <000001c1d6a5$12f9e740$69e287d9@andrews>

Hey, been asked to sort out my folks laptop, so I know nothing of its
past etc.
I noted your thread and thought this maybe interesting,
Their email address keeps getting mail from the "mail demon" notifying
them that their mail (that they did not send) was not delivered to the
address because it contains something that could be a virus.
The mail does point out that the virus attached is called
"sm3song.mp3.scr", but the fun doesn't stop there, however easy it may
seem from this point doesn't cut it.
As I said they get dozens of these mail, and each one says a different
name;
Humour.mp3.scr, hamster.mp3.scr, sm3song.mp3.scr... the most frequently
used one is sm3song.mp3.scr. 
 
The email account, by the way they use outlook express :-(, is set up
for two different email accounts, the one a simple POP3 account through
freeserve, and the other (that I don't understand) through something
called freezone, where their website for my mums business is hosted, and
also works as a server for her mail.
 
Going back to the mail demon messages; they only represent addresses
(from her contact list) who have sent her mail through the freezone
account that she has not yet replied to.
 
If any of this seems to be familiar to anyone please email me at 
Sanity_not_vanity@hotmail.com
 
I thought maybe the virus is on the freezone server as apposed to the
laptop, also note, the virus does not seem to be doing anything
destructive, nor does it show when I do a complete scan of the hard
drives using the latest versions of PC cillin antivirus.
 
Andy.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/2b2be410/attachment.html
From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 28 16:08:58 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
References: <114.ecc07f1.29d4a155@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00d401c1d6a5$295b9420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>

> They are the equivalent to regular 8 mm tapes and give 
> me 240 lines of resolution, not the 400 lines of high 8 
> resolution.

That's a kind of gotcha.  I notice 6 detents on the bottom of 
the cassetts, including the readonly switch.  I wonder if the
difference seen on a Hi8 is what's needed here (IE drill out
the first detent).

John A.



From geoffr at zipcon.net  Thu Mar 28 16:28:16 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Analog 8mm
In-Reply-To: <004101c1d664$ce0cbee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020328072124.00807840@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328142743.027fc4b0@mail.zipcon.net>

I'd presume that they should work just fine, I've used 8MM vidtapes in an 
emergency in my exabyte tape backup drive...

At 09:28 AM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Put simply:
>Anybody have any horror stories about using digital
>data 8mm tapes in a Camcorder?
>My personal belief is that they are overbuilt, if anything.
>
>John A.


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 16:29:46 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
In-Reply-To: <3CA39B53.84ECAC44@bluewin.ch> from "Jos Dreesen" at Mar 28, 2 11:38:11 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1483 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/7936f7fa/attachment.ksh
From geoffr at zipcon.net  Thu Mar 28 16:37:15 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Spam from _sring@uslink.net?
In-Reply-To: <000001c1d6a5$12f9e740$69e287d9@andrews>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328143626.00a72880@mail.zipcon.net>

At 10:08 PM 3/28/02 +0000, you wrote:

>Hey, been asked to sort out my folks laptop, so I know nothing of its past 
>etc.
>
>I noted your thread and thought this maybe interesting,
>
>Their email address keeps getting mail from the mail demon notifying them 
>that their mail (that they did not send) was not delivered to the address 
>because it contains something that could be a virus.
>
>The mail does point out that the virus attached is called sm3song.mp3.scr 
>, but the fun doesn t stop there, however easy it may seem from this point 
>doesn t cut it.


Stupid question, but have you scanned for a Virus? 


From jos.mar at bluewin.ch  Thu Mar 28 16:38:11 2002
From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: TEK4014 repair info requested.
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA39B53.84ECAC44@bluewin.ch>


Tony,

I would not be bothering the group if a had a repair manual..

The machine works again : the rightmost slot contained another, unconnected,
char gen board !
The 4014 works ok with that board.
I can only assume the previous owner was already experiencing this kind of
problems.

I removed the old char gen board as I would still like to repair it. I assume
the DAC's you talk about are
actually build out of discrete resistors, driven by a 7416 ?


Another tek4014 question : what is the functionality of the rocker switches
marked 1, 2 and 3 ?


					Thanks, Jos

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Thu Mar 28 16:39:03 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: RE: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere" (Gene Buckle)
References: 
	
Message-ID: <15523.39815.684958.935887@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 28, Gene Buckle wrote:
> > > > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
> > >
> > > German?
> > 
> > No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.
> > 
> > Peace...  Sridhar
> > 
> You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.

  He shoots, he scores!

    -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 16:45:44 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Gene Buckle wrote:

> > No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.
> >
> > Peace...  Sridhar
> >
> You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.

Gene,
  Far be it from me to capitalize on another's misfortune, but you've
made my day.

  RALMAO,
   Doc


From geneb at deltasoft.com  Thu Mar 28 17:37:40 2002
From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
> 
> > > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
> >
> > German?
> 
> No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.
> 
> Peace...  Sridhar
> 
You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.

g.

-- 
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.



From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Thu Mar 28 17:46:23 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: DEC field veterans: what's KA64A's self test #21?
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706652C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>



> Gunther Schadow wrote:
> 
	>do you know what the KA64A's self test #21 is? I have two of these
	>boards that just won't come up, they both stop at
	>
	>#123456789 0123456789 01

	After an extensive trawl of the manuals,
	I think I've found something.

	This is, as you have said, failing test 21.

	This is Backup Tag Store Parity Error Test.
	Not a happy CPU, I would guess.
	I have no idea how repairable this is.

	To verify (for sure) you should have
	the yellow LED off (self-test failed)
	and the red LEDs below that
	reading OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON
	(which is 21 in BCD - no, I don't know why!)

	>system self test and get me to a console prompt, I get the error
	>that these two boards didn't get to console mode. What could be
	>wrong here?

	They almost certainly need the tender
	care of a soldering iron and a new chip
	or two. I have no schematics for these
	(I doubt that anyone other than the
	DEC repair centres ever did have these).

	Antonio


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Thu Mar 28 18:17:59 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA3B2B7.2D8BCD55@jetnet.ab.ca>

Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
> 
> > > We all know there's only one real high level language :)
> >
> > German?
> 
> No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.
> 
> Peace...  Sridhar
Yep !

Joe was a world famous hunter. 
He was so good he only needs one shot to kill anything.
So he decides to go hunting for moose, so he takes one shot gun shell.
While looking for moose he crosses a field and a mad bull charges him.
Joe thinks "This is not a moose , so will just climb that tree".
Joe gets to the tree and out peers a mountain lion. Now joe has to think
fast "If I shoot the bull the lion will eat me, and
if I shoot the lion the bull could gore me".
Bang goes the gun , and down falls the lion.
Joe's safe cause he can "shoot the bull" anytime.


-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From geneb at deltasoft.com  Thu Mar 28 18:25:03 2002
From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Doc wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Gene Buckle wrote:
> 
> > > No.  Something even more fundamental:  Bullshit.
> > >
> > > Peace...  Sridhar
> > >
> > You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.
> 
> Gene,
>   Far be it from me to capitalize on another's misfortune, but you've
> made my day.
> 
>   RALMAO,
>    Doc
No problem Doc.  Karma being what it is, you'll spray a mouthful of
something at your computer sometime soon. *laughs*

g.

-- 
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.



From bshannon at tiac.net  Thu Mar 28 18:28:03 2002
From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: Questions for HP1000 collectors & emulation users...(long)
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA3B513.CCA4182@tiac.net>

I have a few questions, a sort of informal survey for people with running HP 1000
hardware in their collections, or people playing with the SIMH (or other) emulation
of these machines.

If you have these machines, please send me a reply off-list.  Please tag the subject
line so (any) replys can be found in my inbox.

Why the questionns?

As many HP collection know, HP1000 machines don't have the huge base of software
thats enjoyed by PDP-8 or PDP-11 machines.  For people with a working CPU, their
options are limited to stand-alone software (HP BASIC) or getting working HP drives
and running some flavor of RTE.

As many HP collectors know, the HP 1000 machines do not enjoy the range of software
that is available for other machines like the PDP-8 or PDP-11.  Today the HP 1000
collector is left with little choice other than stand-alone HP BASIC or attempting
to install and run some flavor of RTE on HP or aftermarket drives.

Another option will soon be available.

I'm currently working with a small group of people to develop a small, highly
portable, modular software package for HP1000 machines from the 2114/5/6 up through
the 21MX E and F series machines.  This package will allow people to bootstrap their
HP processors with a minimum of peripherals.  A PC-link and upload/download
application will also be provided as freeware.

(host interface is only for actual HP hardware, not emulation)

In order to support the range hardware collectors actually have, I'd like anyone
with a HP 1000 to drop me an off-list email with the following info:

1. What HP 1000 Processors or emulation system do you have running?

2. What method do you currently use to load programs into your processor, if any?

3. What software are you running?

4. What interface boards do you have installed?

5. What periperhals devices do you have, and do you have any documentation on their
hardware interface and programming?

6. Are you familiar with HP 1000 assembler?

7. Are you up for any (light) hardware work, or would you prefer a turn-key
approach?

8. Would you be interested in installing and using a small, extensible programming
environment and operating system on your HP hardware?



From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 28 18:57:21 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020327205002.00819430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020328195721.007cdd50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/28/02 +0000, you wrote:
>> >The 9114A, 9121, 9122 (not C, I guess), 9123, 9133, etc use a full-height 
>> >Sony disk mechanism. This one will not work with HD disks because the 
>> >disk-inserted sensor (a spring-loaded flag and a slotted optoswitch on 
>> >the motor PCB) lines up with the density select hole on the HD disk. The 
>> >result is that the drive thinks no disk is inserted.
>> 
>>    I've never looked the internals of the drive but that certainly 
>> makes sense since the error message returned says that there is no media 
>> in the drive.
>
>I am wondering how on earth you can cure the 'classic' dried up grease 
>fault on the loading mechanism and _not_ look at the internals of a 
>drive. You have had that fault I trust. If not, you're the only owner of 
>such drives who hasn't....

   Actually I've never had that problem on a 9114, only on the double sided drives. That must be due to the difference in climate.  But to get to your point, I have taken drives out and cleaned and regreased them but I never looked at the electronics that closely. In fact, I take the easy way out when cleaning the drives, I hold the bare drive up and pour alcohol over the mechanical section then go over it with cottom swabs to remove the grease then rinse with alcohol and let dry. After it's dry I regrease the pivots and wear points. Then I clean the heads and reinstall the drive. Removing and reinstalling the drive takes longer than cleaning it does.


>
>But yes, you get a No Medium (or similar) message, for the obvious reasons...
>
>> >ROM to send DDL and DDT commands to the 9114 to create such a file. I've 
>> >not bothered -- 128K on a single disk is still plenty of space for an HP41...
>> 
>> 
>>    128K is a HUGE space for a HP 41!  The 41 only has 2.2k of RAM!
>
>Agreed. 128K will hold a lot of HP41 (or HP67-converted-to-HP41) 
>programs. 
>
>It's the same capacity as the 82161 tape drive, of course. Just that the 
>disk drive is faster, and more importantly the media is easier and 
>cheaper to obtain. The fact that you can read the 9114 disks in a PC with 
>the right software is an added bonus.

   Agreed.  Once you've used a 9114 you'll never willing touch a tape drive again IMO!

    Joe
>
>-tony
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 28 19:00:52 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: OS/2 Warp Connect
In-Reply-To: <20020328192629.26483.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20020327161045.00820100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020328200052.007cdb30@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

Ethan,

   I'm about 65 miles from there but the pickings are so good in Melbourne that I usually go there about once a week.  Give me a shout if you get anywhere in the central Florida area.

    Joe

At 11:26 AM 3/28/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>--- Joe  wrote:
>>   I spotted a box with version 3 in a store in Melbourne today...
>
>I didn't know you were in that area.  I have a good friend from grade
>school who lives in Melbourne Beach.  The last time I visited him
>was, ISTR, 1994.  If I ever go back for another visit (didn't care
>for Florida in June!), I'll give you a shout.
>
>Cheers,
>
>-ethan
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
>http://movies.yahoo.com/
>


From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com  Thu Mar 28 19:11:52 2002
From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.6.32.20020327210806.00818210@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020328201152.007cdd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>

At 07:50 PM 3/28/02 +0000, you wrote:
>> >7. hp 97 calculator missing adapter and battery.
>> 
>>    The adapter puts out 8 volts AC. The battery has four sub-C NiCad
>> cells so it has 4.8 volt output. It should be easy to find an AC adapter,
>
>It's the same battery pack as is used in the 82143 (HP41 dedicated 
>printer), 82161 (digital tape drive) and 82162 (HPIL thermal printer). 
>And all the HP90-series ('Topcat') calculators.
>
>It is just 4 Sub-C NiCds in series. I can look up the polarity of the 
>contact springs in the HP97 battery compartment if you need it.
>
>> the adapters that are used for the rechargeable battery packs in the HP-41
>> and for nearly all of the HP-IL devices fits and works fine on the 97.  I
>
>There are 2 types of HP97 charger connector (!).

  Actually there's about 6 or 7 if count all the foreign versions. 

>
>The latter, and more common, one has a ridge in the middle. It takes the same
>charager as is used with many later calculators (HP10A, HP19C (I think 
>those 2, anyway), HP41 rechargeable pack, HP71, HP75), and many HPIL 
>peripherals (82161 tape drive, 82162 printer, 82163 video, 82164 RS232, 
>82165 GPIO, 82168 Modem (I think), 82169 HPIB, 9114 disk drive, 2225B 
>thinkjet). And also on the 82143 HP41 printer, HP110 'Portable' and 
>HP110+ 'Portable Plus' MS-DOS laptops, and doubtless a lot more that I've 
>forgotten. These adapters are not hard to find.
>
>The earlier series have a slightly different plug. I am not sure if the 
>later charger will plug in (I do know an old charger will not fit the new 
>machines). There is no ridge in the middle -- just 2 pins. Electrically 
>the chargers are indentical.

   The plug on the old style charger is strange. It has a web in the middle but the web is cut at angle so the plug can only plug in one way.  The newer charger has the entire web cut out and will plug in either way. Bear  in mind that both chargers output AC so polarity is not a factor.  I almost never find the old style chargers unless it's with a calculator so I neglected to mention them but I FREQUENTLY find the newer style ones.


>
>The reason it was changed? People plugged the mains lead (the sort of 
>lead used with cheap cassette recorders _and with some HP calculator 
>chargers) straight into the HP97. That machine didn't like 110V or 240V 
>across it. The results were, I am told, spectacular...

  ZOUNDS!  I'll bet! Especially on 230 VAC!


>
>> frequently find these types of chargers in the surplus stores. I found so
>> many of them that I just quit them.  FWIW the charger is not adaquete to
>> run the 97 without the battery however you can it off a decent power
>> supply connected to the battery terminals. 
>
>True.
>
>Incidentally, there's a little circuit in the 97 (a couple of transistors 
>and a resistor) to load down the output of the charger if the battery 
>terminal voltage tries to rise about the 6.2V Vss line. This will happen 
>if the battery is open-circuit or misisng.
>
>If you use a real HP charger, then it's safe to power it up with no 
>battery installed (the HP charger has deliberately poor regulation 
>characteristics). It'll normally work well enough to do calculations, 
>although it won't print or read/write magnetic cards without a good 
>battery installed IIRC. 

   Sometimes they'll run without the battery but often they'll just set there and flicker. The printer and card reader will most definitely not work without a reasonably good battery (or a decent power supply) installed.

   IIRC there is NO regulation in either of these chargers.

   Joe

>
>-tony
>
>


From marvin at rain.org  Thu Mar 28 19:19:58 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:50 2005
Subject: West Coast Computer Faire Conference Proceedings
Message-ID: <3CA3C13E.EB3B8AA4@rain.org>


For anyone who needs these, ebay has several years worth of the West
Coast Computer Faire Conference Proceedings. Bidding starts at $25 and
the sellers auctions can be seen at:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=byeman&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 19:24:00 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: HP 9114B drive question (Hey Joe!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020328195721.007cdd50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 2 07:57:21 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2835 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/7052a06b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 19:33:58 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: More Museum Finds and Help with Disk Needed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020328201152.007cdd10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 2 08:11:52 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2986 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/08f49610/attachment.ksh
From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:46 2002
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <3CA33F5D.19438.9215423@localhost>
References: 
 <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020328191444.052bae80@pc>

At 04:05 PM 3/28/2002 +0100, Hans Franke wrote:
>BTW: Total different thing - has anybody erver tried to do a Java to
>UCSD P-Code compiler ? Could be some fun :)

Compiling UCSD Pascal code as Java could be possible.  
It may already be possible, using Java back-ends to
'gcc'-related compilers, but it might not be perfect
UCSD Pascal.  Converting UCSD p-codes to Java could 
also be possible, depending on what sort of memory tricks 
you expect to work.

- John


From avickers at solutionengineers.com  Thu Mar 28 20:04:03 2002
From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328005403.018b0f10@192.168.1.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020003.01903ae0@192.168.1.1>

At 19:36 28/03/2002, you wrote:

> > >Why is size/weight important for a machine that's not designed as a 
> portable?
> >
> > Smaller is Better? Wasn't that always Sinclair's design philosophy?
>
>I was looking for a real reason....

To Sinclair, that probably *was* a real reason. Don't forget, he's a huge 
(pardon the pun) fan of miniaturisation.

>  In my view larger is better, since
>it's a lot easier to work on when it needs repair...

Mostly agreed. Things can get *too* big (ain't no way I'm going to fit a 
VAX8800 in my "machine room" (aka the spare bedroom)). OTOH, bigger tends 
to mean more modular, which tends to make repairs easier as well.


> > So true. OTOH, the QL was mostly reliable. Certainly more reliable than 
> any
>
>I know people who had a lot of trouble with them...

Like I said, it was mostly reliable. If you got a duff one, you were in for 
a world of pain. But that's true of everything.


> > single one of my PCs here (all of which have, at some time or another, had
> > something fail in them). What makes the PC forgivable is that it's
> > generally a plug-in plug-out component, rather than some integral part of
> > the only circuit board in the thing. Although, come to think of it, I have
>
>What's that got to do with it?

Taking a soldering iron to your only computer, when unable to afford a 
replacement, is *not* clever.


>Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. Doesn't everybody???

No.

-- 
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
From Oddzilla2000 at aol.com  Thu Mar 28 20:04:41 2002
From: Oddzilla2000 at aol.com (Oddzilla2000@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Anyone Want mac roms?
Message-ID: 

I need a quadra 950 rom
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020328/6e573458/attachment.html
From vaxman at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 20:46:55 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Infoserver software (was Re: Infoserver 150 DEC)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF293.CF599512@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: 


Cool, I just picked one up at a surplus property auction. Complete
with two rrd40s...

What would you be willing to trade for a copy of the 3.2 cdrom?

Thanks,
Clint

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:

> Yes.. I have version 3.1 and version 3.2 cdrom's.
> 
> 
> 
> "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have the software distribution for an Infoserver 100?
> >
> > On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:
> >
> > > To override the password do the following:
> > >
> > > unplug it from the network (so it will fail self test and drop you at
> > > the console)
> > > from the console do a  BOOT /R1 dka0: (where dka0 is your boot device)
> > > It will come up , load the infoserver os and use DEFAULT settings (which
> > > means password will be the default of ESS)
> > > login and do a set password to change the password, SAVE , then shutdown
> > > and restart.  Logon with your newly selected password.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Allain wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.
> > > >
> > > > John A.
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Barnes
> > > davebarnes@adelphia.net
> > >
> > > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> > > and collector of DEC equipment
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> --
> David Barnes
> davebarnes@adelphia.net
> 
> OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> and collector of DEC equipment
> 
> 
> 


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 21:16:35 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: DEC field veterans: what's KA64A's self test #21?
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706652C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
Message-ID: <20020329031635.13328.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Carlini, Antonio"  wrote:
> 	To verify (for sure) you should have
> 	the yellow LED off (self-test failed)
> 	and the red LEDs below that
> 	reading OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON
> 	(which is 21 in BCD - no, I don't know why!)

What doesn't make sense?  Why it's seven lights for two BCD digits
or why that pattern equals 21?  (010 0001)  I would guess that there
aren't any codes higher than 79, so why install the highest bit.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From edick at idcomm.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:55 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
References: <018a01c1d675$b866ff40$e6f8b8ce@impac.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1d6d9$97559460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

"Old 5.25" drives covers a wide range.  If you don't mind the $75 per hour
shop time, you can probably get most any of them repaired.  Getting it done
right is not such an easy matter, however.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik S. Klein" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: 5.25" floppy model numbers


> Before you scrap them?
>
> I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
> to dual drive status.
>
> Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives?  Or better yet, a
> source for getting them repaired?
>
> Erik S. Klein
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]  On Behalf Of Doc Shipley
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:48 AM
> To: Classic Computers
> Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
>
>   Somebody recently posted a fairly comprehensive list of floppy drive
> model #s with their capacities & base specs.  I'd like to grab a few
> not-1.2M drives before we scrap them, but I've misplaced the list.
> Would whoever it was be willing to repost?
>
>   Thanks
>     Doc
>
>


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Thu Mar 28 22:26:12 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Gene Buckle wrote:

> > > You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.

> No problem Doc.  Karma being what it is, you'll spray a mouthful of
> something at your computer sometime soon. *laughs*

  Yes, karma will be.  :)
  And I really do commiserate about the Cheetos.
  But every time I see your post it puts both my keyboard and my display
in jeopardy.  I'm not sure why, but that visual was priceless.
  Thank you so very much!

	Doc, still giggling


From allain at panix.com  Thu Mar 28 22:38:37 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: 5.25" floppy model numbers
References: 
Message-ID: <007801c1d6db$97f544e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>

> Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives? 

How about these, (via yours truly)?

> >   Canon  MD 5501 ******************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI
> >   Mitsubishi  MF504C-318U *********** ?   -  1.2 MB 96 TPI
> >   Mitsumi  D509V   (qty2) *********** 1.2 MB 96 TPI
> >   Mitsumi  D509V3   (qty4)
> >   NEC  FD1157C ********************** 1.2 MB 96 TPI
> >   Olivetti  XM 4311/3 28/85 ********* 1.2 MB 96 TPI

(annotation Thanks to Marvin Johnston and Don Maslin)
Original Send: Sunday, January 27, 2002 2:03 AM

John A.









From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Thu Mar 28 23:33:00 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020329053427.YCSH24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> > The text refers to 2x2114 or a 4118 installed in the UK version and a
> > 2K option for export - possibly there are 2 versions of the board?
> 
> OK, I've pulled my ZX81 apart. The PCB claims to be 'Issue 1'. 

I have never seen any board marked "Issue 2."  Did it exist?
 
> So, fit L2 if you install a 6116 (A10 on pin 19). Fit L1 if you install a

> 4118 (I am not sure what pin 19 is, I can't find a 4118 data sheet, but 
> at least one schematic I have calls it 'E', presumably an active high 
> enable signal). Fit either or no links if you install 2 * 2114s. Never 
> fit both links, or you'll short A10 to the +5V rail.

Today I checked out about two dozen ZX81/TS1000s.  They've been piling up
in a box and today I finally got to them.  Here's what I found:

All of the 1K boards had two 2114s and no jumper installed.
All but one of the 2K boards had a single 2016 and L2 was installed.
One 2K board had a 6116 and L2 was installed.  The board was operational
and appeared unmodified.
I replaced a socketed 2016 on a working board with the 6116 pulled from the
above-mentioned board,
and the board still worked.

So I think it's safe to say that L2 is required for a single-RAM-chip
board, and that a 6116 is a drop-in replacement for a 2016.

Never did see a 4118.  Perhaps the use of it would change things,
jumper-wise.

Glen
0/0


From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 29 00:37:28 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Neat trick I just thought of!
Message-ID: <3CA40BA8.B1FB09BE@internet1.net>

I just bought a IBM PS/2 Model 9577 today for $10.  It's got some areas
of sticky sticker residue on it.  Usually, I use "Goo Gone" to remove
that type of thing.  A lot of times I need to let it sit and soak.  The
Goo Gone tends to flow to other areas, However, which can make a mess,
and waste the stuff too.  I decided to use toilet paper to control the
flow.  Basically, I used a single sheet or even less, lay it over the
desired area, and soak it with the Goo Gone.  The toilet paper controls
the Goo Gone by surface tension..... at least I assume it's the surface
tension between the toilet paper, case, and the Goo Gone.  Let it soak,
then you can pretty much wipe the area clean :-)

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From asholz at topinform.com  Fri Mar 29 01:39:03 2002
From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: HPIB programming assistance
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA41A17.9090005@topinform.com>

Steve,

I would like to suggest to take the trial version of TransAera HTBasic. 
There is a help-file included, which is describing all comands needed 
for your purposes.

Andreas

Steve Robertson wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I am working on a project to breath life back into some old hardware. 
> I order to do so, I need some documentation / assistance in writing 
> low-level routines to talk to various HPIB devices. Specifically: I 
> would like to talk to a HP 7978 tape drive, a CS80 compatible tape 
> drive, or a common HPIB disk drive.
>
> I don't need help with HPIB protocol, I need to know the sequence of 
> commands (sent across the bus) to move data into and out of those 
> devices. I would expect to find this information in the programming 
> manuals for those devices but so far, have been unable to locate the 
> docs.
>
> If anyone can provide documentation for any of those devices or has 
> experience programming them, I'd appreciate the assistance.
>
> Thanks,
> SteveRob
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>



From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 29 02:01:43 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Manesa??
Message-ID: <3CA41F67.1867304F@internet1.net>

Anybody know what Manesa is?  Is it an IBM facility?  The 9577 I just
bought has sticker, and a stamping on it that says "Manesa".

-- 
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

From stanb at dial.pipex.com  Fri Mar 29 03:11:03 2002
From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:05:49 GMT."
              
Message-ID: <200203290911.JAA20472@citadel.metropolis.local>

Hi,

ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said:
> > > As mentioned in a previous post, the 2-RAM-chip ZX81 PCBs I have at hand
> > > have NEITHER L1 or L2 installed.
> > 
> > Just to confuse things further the schematic I have shows L1 pulling pin
> > 19 of the 4118 up to 5V when that's installed, and no L2 at all!
> 
> What else (other than L1) is pin 19 of the 4118 (the 24 pin chip 
> location) connected to? Anything? 
> 

Nothing.

> > The text refers to 2x2114 or a 4118 installed in the UK version and a
> > 2K option for export - possibly there are 2 versions of the board?
> 
> OK, I've pulled my ZX81 apart. The PCB claims to be 'Issue 1'. 
> 
> There are 3 solder pads to the right of the 24 pin chip location : 
> 
>    o
>      L1
>    o
>      L2
>    o
> 
> (where 'o' is a solder point on the PCB).  You link the top and middle 
> pads fro L1, and the middle and bottom pads for L2.
> 
> The top pad is connected to +5V. The middle pad to pin 19 of the 24 pin 
> chip. The bottom pad to A10 on the Z80 (at least). 

That agrees with my actual board - also an "Issue One".

Mine's working quite nicely now, all I need to do is find the Forth
manual to find out how to use some of the features.   There must be
some cassettes and program listings somewhere as well.

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.com

The future was never like this!



From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 29 06:49:42 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:

> The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> the very heart of this community, the software that
> keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.
<...>
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

Ah hell.  This is a dead fish.  It stinks really bad but it'll eventually
just go away.  I wouldn't worry about it.

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From foo at siconic.com  Fri Mar 29 06:51:09 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <016f01c1d748$e4123460$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote:

> The classic computing hobby aside, The CBDTPA is stupid on a number of
> levels. Most electronics manufacturers are against it, for example. They
> say it will discourage innovation and slow the development of new
> products. Civil libertarians oppose it for potential privacy issues and
> its likelihood of impeding the free flow of information.

And besides, it's unimplementable.  Mostly due to the fact that someone
will ALWAYS find a way around the "protection".

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From mew_list at swbell.net  Fri Mar 29 06:57:50 2002
From: mew_list at swbell.net (Mitch Wright)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
References: <20020329031635.13328.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA464CE.1F68@swbell.net>

Does anyone know how to park(lock) the heads on RK07 drives for moving?

Thanks, Mitch

From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Fri Mar 29 07:17:36 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Infoserver software (was Re: Infoserver 150 DEC)
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA46970.3626B912@adelphia.net>

Sure Clint.. contact me off list..


"Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:

> Cool, I just picked one up at a surplus property auction. Complete
> with two rrd40s...
>
> What would you be willing to trade for a copy of the 3.2 cdrom?
>
> Thanks,
> Clint
>
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:
>
> > Yes.. I have version 3.1 and version 3.2 cdrom's.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone have the software distribution for an Infoserver 100?
> > >
> > > On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, David Barnes wrote:
> > >
> > > > To override the password do the following:
> > > >
> > > > unplug it from the network (so it will fail self test and drop you at
> > > > the console)
> > > > from the console do a  BOOT /R1 dka0: (where dka0 is your boot device)
> > > > It will come up , load the infoserver os and use DEFAULT settings (which
> > > > means password will be the default of ESS)
> > > > login and do a set password to change the password, SAVE , then shutdown
> > > > and restart.  Logon with your newly selected password.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John Allain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have 150 too.  I could use a method to override the password.
> > > > >
> > > > > John A.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Barnes
> > > > davebarnes@adelphia.net
> > > >
> > > > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> > > > and collector of DEC equipment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > David Barnes
> > davebarnes@adelphia.net
> >
> > OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
> > and collector of DEC equipment
> >
> >
> >

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Fri Mar 29 09:11:42 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 disk drives (was RE: 5.25" floppy model numbers)
Message-ID: 

Osborne also replaced the electronics on the drive with their own board. My
O1 had Siemens FDD 100-5 drives.

I have the cable pinout and disk controller schematics in my copy of the
Osborne 1 Technical manual, if anyone wants a copy.

Question: the tech manual says that with the double density option
installed, the O1 could read/write IBM 40 track 8 (512 byte) sectors, Xerox
820 40 track, 18 (128 byte) sectors, and DEC 1820 DD 40 track 9 (512 byte)
sectors. Can anybody verify this (Fred?)?

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:48 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: 5.25" floppy model numbers




On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote:

> Before you scrap them?
>
> I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
> to dual drive status.

Be advised that the Osborne drives are not directly interchangeable with
`normal' 5.25" drives.  The ribbon cable to the card edge carries drive
power as well as signals and is wired differently.  You will need to
conjure an adapter to use normal ones.
						 - don

> Does anyone know of a good source for old floppy drives?  Or better yet, a
> source for getting them repaired?
>
> Erik S. Klein


From philip at awale.qc.ca  Fri Mar 29 09:35:46 2002
From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Neat trick I just thought of!
In-Reply-To: <3CA40BA8.B1FB09BE@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 


On 29-Mar-2002 Chad Fernandez wrote:
> I just bought a IBM PS/2 Model 9577 today for $10. 

Oh wow.  Why can't I find deals like that around here?  *sigh*

> The toilet paper controls
> the Goo Gone by surface tension..... at least I assume it's the surface
> tension between the toilet paper, case, and the Goo Gone.  Let it soak,
> then you can pretty much wipe the area clean :-)

Neat!

-Philip

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 09:52:25 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
In-Reply-To: <3CA464CE.1F68@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020329155225.16108.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Mitch Wright  wrote:
> Does anyone know how to park(lock) the heads on RK07 drives for moving?
> 
> Thanks, Mitch

I haven't been inside an RK07 for about 10 years, but ISTR there's a
solonoid that releases the heads from park, not a head clamp.  i.e. -
the heads lock by default when the drive spins down and don't unlock
unless the drive detects all is well.  I have a distinct memory of
a deep, resounding *clunk* when the drive has just spun up - the head
lock release, IIRC.

You might ensure the heads are retracted all the way - a dead NiCd pack
might prevent that from happening (it provides juice for that final
seek)  And don't get your fingers in between the positioner ears and
the magnet - it wants to put about 1/8" clearance when it retracts
fully and your finger will barely slow it down.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From geneb at deltasoft.com  Fri Mar 29 10:27:33 2002
From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> > > > You bastard.  Now I've got Cheeto bits all over my screen.  Gah.
> 
> > No problem Doc.  Karma being what it is, you'll spray a mouthful of
> > something at your computer sometime soon. *laughs*
> 
>   Yes, karma will be.  :)
>   And I really do commiserate about the Cheetos.
>   But every time I see your post it puts both my keyboard and my display
> in jeopardy.  I'm not sure why, but that visual was priceless.
>   Thank you so very much!
> 
> 	Doc, still giggling

You're quite welcome.  I'm holding out for you spewing Coke through your
nose now. :)

g.

-- 
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.



From dougq at iglou.com  Fri Mar 29 10:48:18 2002
From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
Message-ID: 

> A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile
once"
> and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of
> computers running the P-System, not different instances of
> the same computer).
>
> Was this true?

I've never seen it contradicted.

> Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
> system B and run it successfully?

It wasn't likely common.

> I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
> limit this capability.

Serial ports and modems would more or less get around this problem.

> Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single binary,
> but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
> any brand/model of P-System?  (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
> for every platform?)

The Smalltalk-80 System also used an interpreter, called the bytecode
interpreter, and it was in fact common to take an application compiled
on, say, a Xerox Dorado and run it on a Xerox Magnolia, or even a
Tektronix box. I've seen references recently to an Alto version of
Smalltalk-80 2.2, so the apps crafted at XSIS (Xerox Special Information
Systems) like The Analyst(tm), might have been worked out on Altos
then run at the The Company on Magnolias.

-dq

-- 
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com)            [Call me "Doug"]
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."  -Tom Waits



From dougq at iglou.com  Fri Mar 29 10:49:20 2002
From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: (Fwd) pdp-11 availalbe
Message-ID: 

Forwarded from alt.sys.pdp8,10,&11:

(contact the originak poster, please)

From: "Betty Sparks CIRT-IRC" 
To: 
Subject: pdp-11 availalbe
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:21 AM


Is there any interest in a pdp-11...maybe an e with all the associated
DEC documentation?

Also, any other group that you migh know of that would be interested and I
will send info to them

thanks  Betty

-- 
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com)            [Call me "Doug"]
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."  -Tom Waits



From dougq at iglou.com  Fri Mar 29 10:52:46 2002
From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: 

The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
the very heart of this community, the software that
keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.

Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's
not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only
software created from the time of the bill's passage
and on into the future. The stuff we play with now
would therefore be exempt.

There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that
you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole
for computers that do not contain microprocessors.

But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill
is passed, computers and software being developed now,
once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be
breaking federal law to share software.

Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
if you want more information, see:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.

A true emperor's fine new clothes scneario...

Regards,
-dq

-- 
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com)            [Call me "Doug"]
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."  -Tom Waits



From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Fri Mar 29 11:21:31 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4A29B.8FCE32A3@jetnet.ab.ca>

"Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.

Piraticy is bad, but the BILL is not the way to stop it.
(I can't do much as CANADA is not a state YET).

From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Fri Mar 29 11:33:23 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066530@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>

> Mitch Wright wrote:
> 
	>Does anyone know how to park(lock) the heads on RK07 drives for
moving?

	The RK06/RK07 User's Manual is available at:

	  http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm

	I don't see anywhere that mentions locking
	or unlocking heads, but I only skimmed
	through quite quickly.

	Antonio


From allain at panix.com  Fri Mar 29 11:38:23 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <002001c1d748$86c418a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06>

> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

It seems nuts at first look.
The way to enact nocopy is to embed liscencing info 
and match objects with users.  With the CBDTPA one
illegal version of 'cp' and and hell breaks loose.
Yeah, that's clever alright.

John A.




From menadeau at attbi.com  Fri Mar 29 11:40:59 2002
From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <016f01c1d748$e4123460$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer>

The classic computing hobby aside, The CBDTPA is stupid on a number of
levels. Most electronics manufacturers are against it, for example. They say
it will discourage innovation and slow the development of new products.
Civil libertarians oppose it for potential privacy issues and its likelihood
of impeding the free flow of information.

By all means, contact your Congress critter if you want to express your
opposition. I suggest, however, that you bring up some of the more high
profile arguments against the bill as well as its impact on the hobby.

The CBDTPA is not a done deal. Powerful forces are lined up on both sides,
and strong public opinion against the bill could well kill it.

--Mike

Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing


> The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> the very heart of this community, the software that
> keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.
>
> Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's
> not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only
> software created from the time of the bill's passage
> and on into the future. The stuff we play with now
> would therefore be exempt.
>
> There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that
> you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole
> for computers that do not contain microprocessors.
>
> But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill
> is passed, computers and software being developed now,
> once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be
> breaking federal law to share software.
>
> Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
> insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
> if you want more information, see:
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
>
> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.
>
> A true emperor's fine new clothes scneario...
>
> Regards,
> -dq
>
> --
> -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com)            [Call me "Doug"]
> "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."  -Tom Waits
>
>


From mtapley at swri.edu  Fri Mar 29 11:45:44 2002
From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: NeXT Laser printers in Redwood City
In-Reply-To: <200203290323.g2T3NgA11330@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: 

S.F. Bay area collectors,
	I assume and hope you are ahead of me on this, but:
------

From: ronfronberg@earthlink.net (ron fronberg)
Newsgroups:
comp.sys.next.marketplace,ba.market.computer,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale.co
mputers.workstation,ba.marketplace.computers
Subject: NeXT Laser Printers - Complete in Original Box $15
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:21:38 GMT
Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net

I have access to a large quantity of NeXT Laser Printers.  The printers
are complete with all cables and trays.  The printers are in original, not
their own,  NeXT Laser Printer boxes.  The printer condition is unknown.
The cost is $15 each.  The printers must be picked up in Redwood City, CA
the first week of April, thru Friday the 5th.  The printers will not be
shipped or held.

The method of payment would be by PayPal.  The printers would need to be
paid for in advance.

If interested, email me at ronfronberg@earthlink.net by Sunday.

thanks
ron

--
ronald fronberg
650 - 366-2566
650 - 369-5665  fax
redwood city, ca
ronfronberg@earthlink.net

--------
contact him, not me.					- Mark



From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com  Fri Mar 29 11:53:48 2002
From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: DEC field veterans: what's KA64A's self test #21?
Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066531@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>


> Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 
	>--- "Carlini, Antonio"  wrote:
	>> 	To verify (for sure) you should have
	>> 	the yellow LED off (self-test failed)
	>> 	and the red LEDs below that
	>> 	reading OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON
	>> 	(which is 21 in BCD - no, I don't know why!)
	>
	>What doesn't make sense?  

	The use of BCD ... what's wrong with
	good old binary! I guess they were
	trying to make it easier for 
	the hard of counting.

	Antonio




From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 29 12:07:28 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4AD60.3010903@dragonsweb.org>

Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
> insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
> if you want more information, see:
> 

Hollings isn't insane, just venal and corrupt, and most likely 
(conveniently) ignorant, like most politicians. If you think lying and 
the evasion of responsibility are insane, you're ok in my book, Doug, 
but the numbers aren't with us there. Even it reality does bite people 
like Hollings in the ass eventually.

The "piracy" issue is a red herring here. Pointing it out, though, will 
get you no more sympathy or support in many quarters than those who 
noted that the American Civil War was about regional economic aggression 
(and fueled by opportunistic war profiteering.)

Fortunately, though, "piracy" is a lot easier to defend on moral grounds 
than slavery, when the real theft has been from third-parties by 
copyright holders, and most importantly, from the public domain.

jbdigriz





From univac2 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 12:11:22 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

This is bad. Very, very bad. There are so many problems with it, and so many
bad ideas embedded within it, a complete list of them could easily fill
volumes. I mean, this is for *real*? Gee wiz, what ever happened to the
nice, simple days of computing, before all this BS came about. Guess those
days are gone for good, and this is just another nail in the coffin.

--
Owen Robertson


From LFessen106 at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 12:29:08 2002
From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: <6c.19ef6390.29d60c74@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/29/02 12:50:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
menadeau@attbi.com writes:


> The classic computing hobby aside, The CBDTPA is stupid on a number of
> levels. Most electronics manufacturers are against it, for example. They say
> it will discourage innovation and slow the development of new products.
> Civil libertarians oppose it for potential privacy issues and its likelihood
> of impeding the free flow of information.
> 
> By all means, contact your Congress critter if you want to express your
> opposition. I suggest, however, that you bring up some of the more high
> profile arguments against the bill as well as its impact on the hobby.
> 
> The CBDTPA is not a done deal. Powerful forces are lined up on both sides,
> 

OK, I just read the CBDTPA..  It'll never work even if it were to be passed 
and here's why...
The act specifically says the security measures *shall not* prevent a legal 
owner from making a personal copy (presumably for backup perposes,etc..).  If 
you can make a backup, you can trade it, etc, just like it is happening now...
The second good reason it'll never work is they can't possibly enforce it.  
You can't subject other countries to US rules policies, and the act doesn't 
have any provision for open source or freeware, or PD goodies.  The US nor 
any other country can effectively poliece/control the internet.
Thirdly, you can't use a hardware decryption because there is no feasable way 
of that method working on all available platforms (and imagine the US saying 
to companies that they can't make such and such a product unless they install 
"our pre-approved security gizmo"), so you would have to use software..  
There's no way a software encryption/decryption would work because you could 
not possibly keep the code from leaking out or being reverse engineered.
Lastly (at least how I see it) the act would invariably violate freedom of 
speach by dictating how and where we could express information.

-Linc.

In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...

Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/2546c68e/attachment.html
From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu  Fri Mar 29 12:40:07 2002
From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To:  from Owen Robertson at "Mar 29, 2 12:11:22 pm"
Message-ID: <200203291840.KAA15002@stockholm.ptloma.edu>

> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> This is bad. Very, very bad. There are so many problems with it, and so many
> bad ideas embedded within it, a complete list of them could easily fill
> volumes. I mean, this is for *real*? Gee wiz, what ever happened to the
> nice, simple days of computing, before all this BS came about. Guess those
> days are gone for good, and this is just another nail in the coffin.

I just wonder how I embed this "protection" in my Commodore 64 software.

-- 
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------

From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Fri Mar 29 12:47:50 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: <20020329.124753.-272399.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:52:46 -0500 (EST) "Douglas H. Quebbeman"
 writes:
> The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> the very heart of this community, the software that
> keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.

I say fuck 'em.  Any software that complies with 
this probably won't be worth using anyway.  History
has proven time and again that 'anti-piracy' measures
don't work.  If the 'protections' are too cumbersome,
no one will use the product.  Conversely, it is also 
possible to implement 'protections' that don't pose
a serious obstacle.

> Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's
> not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only
> software created from the time of the bill's passage
> and on into the future. The stuff we play with now
> would therefore be exempt.

Yeah, it looks like it's written to cover all of the 
M$ crap.  Don't need it. Don't want it.

> There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that
> you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole
> for computers that do not contain microprocessors.

RIght.  'We'll never distribute this version of Linux'
(wink, wink).  It will just ram a whole bunch of 
creative people underground (but maybe we'll see a
rebirth of CPUs implemented in discrete logic :^).

> But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill
> is passed, computers and software being developed now,
> once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be
> breaking federal law to share software.

Like I said, fuck 'em.  If they come after one guy,
you know they'll have to come for about 1,000,000
other guys who are doing the same thing.  There ain't 
gonna be no budget for this . . . 

> Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
> insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
> if you want more information, see:

Certifiably insane?  I don't think that's open to 
debate:  It's a job requirement, and has been for decades.

> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.

Even if it does pass, there's nothing *anyone* can do 
about it.  Everyone (who matters) will ignore it.


My $0.02



Jeff




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 29 12:49:30 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References:  <3CA4BE3E.9854F00B@ccp.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4B73A.9020009@dragonsweb.org>

Gary Hildebrand wrote:
> Looks like another attempt at lawmaking aiding Microsoft and shooting
> Linux in the foot nicely.  This has some bad and far-reaching
> consequences.
> 

It's help MS doesn't want. They in fact stand to lose as much, if not 
more, from this than anyone. Open-source has other options if anything 
like this goes through. MS doesn't.

Ballmer is on record being against it.


jbdigriz


From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Fri Mar 29 12:54:48 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: 

>From reading the Wired article, it looks like the biggest backers are the
big movie studios and record companies, so it makes sense that the bill is
clueless about open source and PD software.

Scary nonetheless.


-----Original Message-----
From: LFessen106@aol.com [mailto:LFessen106@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:29 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing



OK, I just read the CBDTPA..  It'll never work even if it were to be passed
and here's why...  the act doesn't have any provision for open source
or freeware, or PD goodies.  The US nor any other country can effectively
poliece/control the internet.
There's no way a software encryption/decryption would work because you could
not possibly keep the code from leaking out or being reverse engineered.


From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 13:06:12 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: <6c.19ef6390.29d60c74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1d754$cb4e1000$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> In a message dated 3/29/02 12:50:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> menadeau@attbi.com writes:
>
>
> > The classic computing hobby aside, The CBDTPA is stupid on a number of
> > levels. Most electronics manufacturers are against it, for example. They say
> > it will discourage innovation and slow the development of new products.
> > Civil libertarians oppose it for potential privacy issues and its likelihood
> > of impeding the free flow of information.

Electronics manufacturers want to sell product and are against any impediment to doing that, or anything that increases product
cost.  Their motivations are identical to the software proprietors that some are so fond of demonizing.  What they say is
irrelevant.

> > By all means, contact your Congress critter if you want to express your
> > opposition. I suggest, however, that you bring up some of the more high
> > profile arguments against the bill as well as its impact on the hobby.
> >
> > The CBDTPA is not a done deal. Powerful forces are lined up on both sides,
> >
>
> OK, I just read the CBDTPA..  It'll never work even if it were to be passed
> and here's why...
> The act specifically says the security measures *shall not* prevent a legal
> owner from making a personal copy (presumably for backup perposes,etc..).  If
> you can make a backup, you can trade it, etc, just like it is happening now...

I think the act is targeted at large-scale piracy operations and peer-to-peer file sharing systems, so you're right that it won't
against single instances of trading and it is doubtful that it is intended to.  Hooray, the future end of the hobby is not in sight
after all.

> The second good reason it'll never work is they can't possibly enforce it.
> You can't subject other countries to US rules policies, and the act doesn't
> have any provision for open source or freeware, or PD goodies.  The US nor
> any other country can effectively poliece/control the internet.

We subject other countries to US rules and policies all the time.  One way is through negotiated treaties such as GATT.  The other
way is through the broad jurisdictional reach of the courts via the commerce clause that allows suit to be filed against any foreign
company whose business has a foreseeable effect on U.S. commerce.

> Thirdly, you can't use a hardware decryption because there is no feasable way
> of that method working on all available platforms (and imagine the US saying
> to companies that they can't make such and such a product unless they install
> "our pre-approved security gizmo"), so you would have to use software..
> There's no way a software encryption/decryption would work because you could
> not possibly keep the code from leaking out or being reverse engineered.
> Lastly (at least how I see it) the act would invariably violate freedom of
> speach by dictating how and where we could express information.
>
The forces behind this legislation are not under the delusion that they can create crack-proof software, just as the DVD people
balanced cost versus the robustness of copy protection and chose a 40-bit scheme (CSS) that they knew could be and would eventually
be cracked.  It's like buying "The Club" for your car as protection against theft.  Everyone knows that you can saw through the
steering wheel and remove the club in a minute or two, but people still buy and use them because they make it a little bit harder to
steal your car.

> -Linc.
>
> In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...
>
> Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11.
>


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Fri Mar 29 13:09:15 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 disk drives (was RE: 5.25" floppy model numbers)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote:
> Question: the tech manual says that with the double density option
> installed, the O1 could read/write IBM 40 track 8 (512 byte) sectors, Xerox
> 820 40 track, 18 (128 byte) sectors, and DEC 1820 DD 40 track 9 (512 byte)
> sectors. Can anybody verify this (Fred?)?

Hmmm.  I don't know the O1 software enough to answer.
Whether or not it could do the 128 byte sectors will be a function of
which disk controller chip they used - check with Allison on that. The
rest would certainly be possible with the hardware, but would be an issue
of what additional software they provided.  A few developers, such as
Howard Fullmer at Morrow, integrated some alternate formats into the OS,
but most that had such support did it by running additional software (such
as Uniform on the Kaypro).


On a LATER model, Adam "shot in the foot" Osborne announced that the NEW
machine "would be able to read and write EVERY DISK FORMAT IN EXISTENCE."
After enduring considerable heckling at the PC Faire from people informing
me that Osborne could do stuff that my software could not, I got home to
find a phone message re: Osborne company wanting to license my software to
fulfill the promise that they had made!

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Fri Mar 29 13:14:05 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Sneakernet: Osborne SSSD to Commodore 128
Message-ID: <3CA4BCFD.9647B2CC@ccp.com>

I was wondering if there is a simple way of tranfering cp/m files from
the original Osborne 1 format to something a Commodore 1574 drive can
read.  I see it does Osborne SSDD, but not SSSD.  I'm also wondering
about downloading software of the net on my Linux box, as I can get
either a 360k or 1.2M 5.25" floppy (MS-DOS format???)

i'm open for suggestions . . don't want to do a serial poert transfer.

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

From r_beaudry at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 19:15:57 2002
From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drives
Message-ID: 


>>Before you scrap them?
>>
>>I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of Osborne 1s
>>to dual drive status.
>
>Be advised that the Osborne drives are not directly interchangeable with
>`normal' 5.25" drives.  The ribbon cable to the card edge carries drive
>power as well as signals and is wired differently.  You will need to
>conjure an adapter to use normal ones.

I have an Osborne 1 that has had dead video for a while.  Since it is a 
spare anyway, I would be willing to disassemble the drives, and send them to 
the original poster (Erik, I think?).  I'd also try to save any cables, 
connectors, screws, etc.

One caveat... this O1 has had dead video since I got it, so I have never 
fully tested out the floppies... I suppose at some point I could have 
swapped them into a working O1, but I never had the time....

If the original poster could email me off-list, we can exchange shipping 
information.  I will not charge for the drives, but because they're not 
light, I'd appreciate reimbursement for shipping....

Thanks!

Rich B.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Fri Mar 29 13:19:26 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4BE3E.9854F00B@ccp.com>

Looks like another attempt at lawmaking aiding Microsoft and shooting
Linux in the foot nicely.  This has some bad and far-reaching
consequences.

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO




"Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> 
> The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> the very heart of this community, the software that
> keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.
> 
> Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's
> not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only
> software created from the time of the bill's passage
> and on into the future. The stuff we play with now
> would therefore be exempt.
> 
> There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that
> you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole
> for computers that do not contain microprocessors.
> 
> But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill
> is passed, computers and software being developed now,
> once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be
> breaking federal law to share software.
> 
> Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
> insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
> if you want more information, see:
> 
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.
> 
> A true emperor's fine new clothes scneario...
> 
> Regards,
> -dq
> 
> --
> -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com)            [Call me "Doug"]
> "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."  -Tom Waits

From pcw at mesanet.com  Fri Mar 29 13:30:01 2002
From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: Free Cipher M990 manual
Message-ID: 

Came upon this manual and dont see I'll ever need it

This is for a Cipher M990 9 track tape drive

manual has complete schematics and maintenance info

interesting machine, has both a Zilog 8002 and a 16 bit bit-slice processor in
it...

Free for shipping costs

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 13:30:34 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:51 2005
Subject: DEC field veterans: what's KA64A's self test #21?
In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066531@exc-reo1.yagosys.com>
Message-ID: <20020329193034.34448.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Carlini, Antonio"  wrote:
> 
> > Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > 
> 	>--- "Carlini, Antonio"  wrote:

> 	>> 	reading OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON
> 	>> 	(which is 21 in BCD - no, I don't know why!)
> 	>
> 	>What doesn't make sense?  
> 
> 	The use of BCD ... what's wrong with
> 	good old binary! I guess they were
> 	trying to make it easier for 
> 	the hard of counting.

Probably, since the MicroVAX-II and others used a hex code at the
back panel, and binary LEDs on the card edge.

Maybe they were worried about "is that 2E or 2F" vs easy to distinguish
decimal digits (especially if you chose your codes to avoid "0" vs "8"
type confusion, etc.)

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From Mzthompson at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 13:45:33 2002
From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: DEC 3000-600
Message-ID: <103.12e18f47.29d61e5d@aol.com>

On 2002.03.27 22:29 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Also, I didn't get a keyboard
> with it and didn't see one there.  What kind of keyboard does it use, 

And Jochen Kunz  wrote:

> You need a special break out cable like on the DECstation 5000 2{0,4,6}0
> machines. It has a 15 pin D shell connector on one side and a litle box
> on the other. Keyboard (any DEC LK{2,4}01) and Mouse (DEC VSXXX) are
> connected to this box. 

And then pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com also wrote:

> Does anyone have the pinout for this?  Or even better, does anyone have a
> pinout for both this and a Framebuffer Console cable that works with a
> VAXstation 3200 and 4-plane mono framebuffer- a BC18P?  OR should I just
> try to plug it in?  I want to get some sort of confirmation that it won't
> blow up my keyboard or DEC3000 first.

I am under the impression that the same cable used for the DECstation 5000
series is also used with the DEC 3000 series of machines.  Given that,
a BC18P (or BC18Z) is not compatible.  Although I don't have a complete
pinout on the BC18P, I do know that pin 3 of the BC18P (pins 1,2,3 of the
BC18Z) is used for video.  For the 5000 (and hopefully the 3000) the first
few pins are used for the keybaord.

And Doc  added:

>   The kbd/mouse dongle pinouts are posted on the web somewhere.  Try
> Googling "dec 3000/300x pinout" or something.  I looked briefly last
> night and can't find it, but it's out there.

Having not found the 5000 cable pinout myself, I did a pinout for it some 
time back.  I will paste it to the end of this and we will go from there.

Mike

DECstation 5000 keyboard/mouse cable and related info
--------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- 
---------------
The DECstation 5000 has a 15 pin (male) D connector on the back for keyboard
and mouse connections.  There is a cable that plugs into the 5000 connector
and has a keyboard socket (RJ-11) and a mouse socket (7 pin mini-din) on the
other end.  I am under the impression that the same cable is also used with
the DEC 3000 series of machines.

The part number for the cable is 17-02640-01.

For a keyboard, use a LK201 or LK401.
For a mouse, use a VSXXX-AA (round hockey puck) or VSXXX-GA (rectangular).

CABLE INFO

The cable pinout (from the DECstation 5000/240 manual) is:

Pin    Signal     Desc.
1       GND       Ground (to keyboard socket)
2       KEY.TX    Keyboard transmitted data
3       KEY.RX    Keyboard received data
4       +12v      Keyboard power
5       GND       Ground
6       MSE.RX    Mouse received data
7       MSE.TX    Mouse transmitted data
8       GND       Ground (to mouse socket)
9       GND       Ground (to mouse socket)
10      NC
11      NC
12      NC
13      +5v       Mouse power
14      -12v      Mouse power
15      GND       Ground (to mouse socket)

I have also verified the above info with a VOM.

KEYBOARD INFO

As for the keyboard, I had a couple of them open a while back (to clean
out the cookie crumbs) and traced them out somewhat.  Looking into the
end of the plug on the cable coming from the keyboard.

     |------------|
     | o  o  o  o |
     | B  R  G  Y |
     |___|    |___|
         |____|
                   
B - Black  - Data from keyboard
R - Red    - +12v to keyboard
G - Green  - Ground
Y - Yellow - Data to keyboard

And looking into the socket on the end of the 17-02640-01 cable:
(also applies to the keyboard socket on a terminal such as a VT420)

     |------------|
     | o  o  o  o |
     | Y  G  R  B |
     |___|    |___|
         |____|

Pin
 Y   to pin 3 of the 15 pin D connector on cable 17-02640-01
 G   to pin 1 ...
 R   to pin 4 ...
 B   to pin 2 ...

I do not include pin numbers for the keyboard connector because I have
found on-line references to some of this info and in some cases the pin
numbers differ.  Your mileage may vary.

MOUSE INFO

As for the mouse, you will find the pinouts below and the signals.
Please note that the pin numbers may not be the official DEC numbers.
Here again, I have seen on-line references to some of this info and
the pin numbers differ.

Looking into the plug coming from the mouse:

       5 6 7
       o o o
    4 o === o 1
        o o 
        3 2

1 - -12v
2 - Data to mouse
3 - Ground
4 - Data from mouse
5 - +5v
6 - nc
7 - nc

And looking at the socket on a machine or end of the 17-02640-01 cable:

       7 6 5
       o o o
    1 o === o 4
        o o 
        2 3

Pin
 1   to pin 14 of the 15 pin D connector on cable 17-02640-01
 2   to pin  6 ...
 3   to pins 8, 9, & 15 ...
 4   to pin  7 ...
 5   to pin 13 ...
 6   nc
 7   nc


From univac2 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 13:56:46 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <20020329.124753.-272399.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: 

on 3/29/02 12:47 PM, jeff.kaneko@juno.com at jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:
 
>> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
>> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
>> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.
> 
> Even if it does pass, there's nothing *anyone* can do
> about it.  Everyone (who matters) will ignore it.

Well I seriously doubt than anyone will go along with this, even if it is
passed. But didn't the people who came up with this consult people who know
something about computers and software? If they had, surely someone would
have explained to them that this is: A) total shit, and B) impossible to
enforce.

I'm not very 'up' on intellectual property laws, but how can they *force*
programmers, both corporate employees and individuals, to do this?

--
Owen Robertson


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:51 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

>Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
>insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
>if you want more information, see:

I'm not sure if he's insane or not, but I do believe he's guilty of Treason!

This bills effect on Classic Computing really isn't important (though it
would effect everyone here).  What's important is what it would do, it
would basically turn the US into a 3rd world country!

The High Tech companies would basically have to go elsewhere or die.  As
for Opensource software, you can forget any further development in the US
or bringing new copies (such as new versions of Linux) into the US, as that
would effectivelly be illegal.  As for innovation or development of new
technology in the US, forget it, it wouldn't be economically viable.

Then there is the question of schools.  How would you be able to teach
Computer Science if this is passed?

Basically Senator Hollings has betrayed America and is attempting to make
it impossible for the High Tech industry to survive here.

It appears that he has also betrayed his constituents on another level, as
he's not looking out for thier best interests, he's doing what Disney Corp,
and others want him to do.  How much of a investment does Disney Corp, the
MPAA, or the RIAA have in South Carolina?  As far as I can tell none of the
entities he's really representing have any kind of real interest in South
Carolina itself!

One thing that needs to happen is that the citizens of South Carolina need
to remove him from office!

On a positive note, I think I've finally figured out which is more evil,
Disney Corp or Microsoft.

			Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From kenziem at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 29 14:00:59 2002
From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: A few old Commodores
Message-ID: <20020329200021.YXPR25090.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there>

I received a call saying there was a few old commodores to rescue.
I called and he mentioned a couple of 64's, a vic 20 and a B128.

I pick up several boxes, when I get them open there is a Pet 4032 inside 
one of them with the B128 keyboard. there is a 103 modem, and another 
bookshelf worth of games, programs and a bunch of old Popular Electronics 
and Radio-electronics including one with an article entitled 'Hobby 
computer Main-Frames'.  Lot's of extra cables a few dongles, a D9090 hard 
drive,  .  A capture card  2 beat up 64's.


From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com  Fri Mar 29 14:11:57 2002
From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: 

Well, they could send in the police to confiscate all of your computer
equipment and software, and then not give it back until after the court has
thrown out the case, which could be a year or more. Try writing much real
software without a computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Robertson [mailto:univac2@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 PM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing



I'm not very 'up' on intellectual property laws, but how can they *force*
programmers, both corporate employees and individuals, to do this?

--
Owen Robertson

From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Fri Mar 29 14:16:09 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: <20020329.141612.-42775743.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:56:46 -0600 Owen Robertson 
writes:
> on 3/29/02 12:47 PM, jeff.kaneko@juno.com at jeff.kaneko@juno.com 
> wrote:
>  
> >> This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as
> >> the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a
> >> pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale.
> > 
> > Even if it does pass, there's nothing *anyone* can do
> > about it.  Everyone (who matters) will ignore it.
> 
> Well I seriously doubt than anyone will go along with this, 
> even if it is passed. But didn't the people who came up with 
> this consult people who know something about computers 
> and software? 

Surely you jest.  This is *LEGISLATION* remember?  It has
almost nothing to do with the real world.  The only people
lawmakers consult when writing legislation, are the people
who sign the checks.

> If they had, surely someone would have explained 
> to them that this is: A) total shit, and B) impossible to
> enforce.

Part "A" is actually true of *any* legislation made in the
past twenty years (probably even further back than that).
It's almost a requirement.

Part "B" is irrelevant, because the whole legislative
exercise in this country is about getting re-elected, and
aquiring the money to achieve this end. Period.  If 
it pleases the guys who sign the checks (and if the 
aforementioned checks have the requisite number of
digits), it will become law-- one way or another.

> I'm not very 'up' on intellectual property laws, but 
> how can they *force* programmers, both corporate 
> employees and individuals, to do this?

That's just it: They can't, at least not without
spending massive amounts of money (which we don't 
have) on enforcement.  It's little more than a game.

Geez, look what you've done-- now I need a beer!
After that, I think I'm going to practise my kung-fu 
on this here soapbox . . . . 


Jeff



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From hansp at aconit.org  Fri Mar 29 14:19:42 2002
From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4CC5E.7020106@aconit.org>

Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
>>insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
>>if you want more information, see:

> I'm not sure if he's insane or not, but I do believe he's guilty of Treason!

Perhaps Bin Laden in disguise? Or more likely in his pocket.

This seems like a perfect way to destroy the US without firng a single 
shot or crashing a single plane!

   -- HBP




From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 29 14:30:14 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4CED6.1010107@dragonsweb.org>

Feldman, Robert wrote:
> Well, they could send in the police to confiscate all of your computer
> equipment and software, and then not give it back until after the court has
> thrown out the case, which could be a year or more. Try writing much real
> software without a computer.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen Robertson [mailto:univac2@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not very 'up' on intellectual property laws, but how can they *force*
> programmers, both corporate employees and individuals, to do this?
> 
> --
> Owen Robertson
> 
> 

They might not be able to find enough cops willing to face the certainty 
of getting shot or something, though.

jbdigriz


From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com  Fri Mar 29 14:47:01 2002
From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Thrift Shops in TampaBay
In-Reply-To: <20020329200021.YXPR25090.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329154557.00a13ec0@pop-server>

Is anyone aware of any thrift shops in the TampaBay area that are a good 
place to get old computer items?


From spc at conman.org  Fri Mar 29 14:49:56 2002
From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To:  from "Owen Robertson" at Mar 29, 2002 12:11:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203292049.PAA26254@conman.org>

It was thus said that the Great Owen Robertson once stated:
> 
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> This is bad. Very, very bad. There are so many problems with it, and so many
> bad ideas embedded within it, a complete list of them could easily fill
> volumes. I mean, this is for *real*? Gee wiz, what ever happened to the
> nice, simple days of computing, before all this BS came about. Guess those
> days are gone for good, and this is just another nail in the coffin.

  http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,51400,00.html

  Seems like there's a freshman Represenative, Rep. Adam Schiff (of
Califorina) just introduced a similar bill in Congress, as I guess he
couldn't wait for the CBDPTHTHTHTHTHT to pass in the Senate.

  Also from that report:

	In the 2000 election cycle , the entertainment industry handed
	Democrats a whopping $24.2 million in contributions compared to
	$13.3 million to Republicans, according to opensecrets.org.

  I've also heard that the Computer Industry generated over $600 billion in
profits last year, while Hollywood only $35 billion.  

  Also that Michael Eisner, CEO of Disney, has made over $700 million
personally over the last five years at Disney (and not many of the creative
types who work for him like him from what I've heard).

  -spc (The best government corporate interests can buy ... )




From foxvideo at wincom.net  Fri Mar 29 14:54:44 2002
From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <3CA4CC5E.7020106@aconit.org>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329155137.00b20138@mail.wincom.net>

At 09:19 PM 29/03/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>>Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably
>>>insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina,
>>>if you want more information, see:
>
>>I'm not sure if he's insane or not, but I do believe he's guilty of Treason!
>
>Perhaps Bin Laden in disguise? Or more likely in his pocket.
>
>This seems like a perfect way to destroy the US without firng a single 
>shot or crashing a single plane!
>
>   -- HBP
>
>They are already doing a pretty good job of screwing up the broadcast 
>television industry in the US, with HDTV that no one can afford, and 
>digital tv standards that only work in a strong signal area.

         Regards

                 Charlie Fox




                                 Charles E. Fox Video Production
                                         793 Argyle Rd.
                                 Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8
                                 519-254-4991    foxvideo@wincom.net
                                 Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten"
                                         at http://chasfoxvideo.com



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 15:06:54 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020003.01903ae0@192.168.1.1> from "Adrian Vickers" at Mar 29, 2 02:04:03 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2279 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/4948262b/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 15:12:43 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020329053427.YCSH24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 29, 2 00:33:00 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1811 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/07fefd5e/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 15:17:37 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
In-Reply-To: <3CA464CE.1F68@swbell.net> from "Mitch Wright" at Mar 29, 2 06:57:50 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1063 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/33f20eb1/attachment.ksh
From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 29 15:21:30 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: NeXT Laser printers in Redwood City
References: 
Message-ID: <003801c1d772$a952bd20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

I saw one of these at a local thrift store early this week.  No sign of the
NEXT computer, though.  No price on it yet, either.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Tapley" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:45 AM
Subject: NeXT Laser printers in Redwood City


> S.F. Bay area collectors,
> I assume and hope you are ahead of me on this, but:
> ------
>
> From: ronfronberg@earthlink.net (ron fronberg)
> Newsgroups:
>
comp.sys.next.marketplace,ba.market.computer,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale.
co
> mputers.workstation,ba.marketplace.computers
> Subject: NeXT Laser Printers - Complete in Original Box $15
> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 05:21:38 GMT
> Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
>
> I have access to a large quantity of NeXT Laser Printers.  The printers
> are complete with all cables and trays.  The printers are in original, not
> their own,  NeXT Laser Printer boxes.  The printer condition is unknown.
> The cost is $15 each.  The printers must be picked up in Redwood City, CA
> the first week of April, thru Friday the 5th.  The printers will not be
> shipped or held.
>
> The method of payment would be by PayPal.  The printers would need to be
> paid for in advance.
>
> If interested, email me at ronfronberg@earthlink.net by Sunday.
>
> thanks
> ron
>
> --
> ronald fronberg
> 650 - 366-2566
> 650 - 369-5665  fax
> redwood city, ca
> ronfronberg@earthlink.net
>
> --------
> contact him, not me. - Mark
>
>
>


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Fri Mar 29 15:35:33 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
In-Reply-To: Re: RK07 head lock??? (Tony Duell)
References: <3CA464CE.1F68@swbell.net>
	
Message-ID: <15524.56869.105551.624260@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 29, Tony Duell wrote:
> Err, that's it. The RK07 has a solenoid that locks the head carriage when 
> the drive is powered down. There it no manual parking bracket or similar.

  I distinctly remember a drive of a similar form factor in which
there was a metal peg with a grab-ring on the end that you stuck into
a hole in the positioner assembly to immobilize it...am I thinking of
the RM02/03 (a.k.a. CDC 9762)?

         -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Fri Mar 29 15:49:35 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: <20020329.141612.-42775743.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4E16F.5040304@dragonsweb.org>

jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:
> 

> 
> Part "A" is actually true of *any* legislation made in the
> past twenty years (probably even further back than that).
> It's almost a requirement.
> 
> Part "B" is irrelevant, because the whole legislative
> exercise in this country is about getting re-elected, and
> aquiring the money to achieve this end. Period.  If 
> it pleases the guys who sign the checks (and if the 
> aforementioned checks have the requisite number of
> digits), it will become law-- one way or another.
> 

And never mind the damage it does, because whole industries do have to 
retool and change over whole processes and technologies to accomodate, 
people get arrested and charged for the new bullshit felonies, leading 
to more bad karma and societal dysfunction, opportunists use every new 
regulation and law as a tool to screw with other people and get in their 
business or take it from them etc. Parasites riding on the backs of 
parasites. Real wealth diminishes as less effort is put into creating it 
rather than in finding justifications for appropriating other people's 
slices of the pie. Actual productivity shot to hell.

This is exactly why the U.S. is going down the toilet, and no amount of 
  distractions provided in the form of foreign adventures, (un)timely 
terrorism, and crusades  against one evil or another will stop it.

The whole system is rigged to implode on itself. Has been since 
Hamilton's central bank or DeWitt Clinton's pioneering use of public 
funds to back the Erie Canal, a private infrastructure project. We 
managed to get along in the past, despite all odds, because we 
collectively had a consensual notion of civic duty and responsibility 
that was in the maximal benefit of everyone, or at least tried to be, 
and a clear sense of the division between private and public affairs, 
and the limitations of the government's role in either. Nowadays the 
rapid assimilation of the latest desired propaganda and memes peddled by 
those manipulating the system, including the media, seems to be more 
important than inculcating the thorough grasp of history required to 
assess them properly.

No one's really mentioning how thoroughly unconstitutional Sen. Hollings 
et al.'s (Ms. Feinstein, Mr. Stevens, and more need to be retired, too) 
bill is. On about a half-dozen counts or more. That's a sad commentary 
in itself.

Whoever's running the show is either asleep at the wheel, or determined 
to send us all back to about the 10th Century. I'm not talking about 
Presidents, Senators, ministers, royalty, executives, or other sock 
puppets here. I mean the money people. Either way, it's dereliction, at 
best. Criminal negligence, I'd say. Or worse. But definitely criminal.

And that about exhausts what I have to say on the subject. Except to say
it's not something I worry about, because it just don't confront me.

jbdigriz



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Mar 29 16:05:32 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
In-Reply-To: <15524.56869.105551.624260@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Mar 29, 2 04:35:33 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 863 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020329/52bb3b9c/attachment.ksh
From csmith at amdocs.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:08 2002
From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BC1@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]

> > >Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. 
> Doesn't everybody???

> > No.

> OK, does _anybody_ (else)?

Yes.  In fact, I am at the moment endeavoring to become competent
enough with electronics to make repairs like this (especially the
simple ones).  I'm not quite there yet.

Chris


Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL

/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
 

From edick at idcomm.com  Fri Mar 29 16:40:00 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
References: 
Message-ID: <003901c1d772$a9744ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

The only difference between the 2016 and the 6116, is tha the 6116 is CMOS,
while the 2016 is NMOS.  That's not much difference.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: ZX81 and 6116


> >
> > > So, fit L2 if you install a 6116 (A10 on pin 19). Fit L1 if you install
a
> >
> > > 4118 (I am not sure what pin 19 is, I can't find a 4118 data sheet, but
> > > at least one schematic I have calls it 'E', presumably an active high
> > > enable signal). Fit either or no links if you install 2 * 2114s. Never
> > > fit both links, or you'll short A10 to the +5V rail.
> >
> > Today I checked out about two dozen ZX81/TS1000s.  They've been piling up
> > in a box and today I finally got to them.  Here's what I found:
> >
> > All of the 1K boards had two 2114s and no jumper installed.
>
> As did my PCB. If you use 2114s, L1/L2 makes no difference (it's not
> connected to these chips at all). Might as well save 1cm of wire and a
> bit of solder :-)
>
> > All but one of the 2K boards had a single 2016 and L2 was installed.
> > One 2K board had a 6116 and L2 was installed.  The board was operational
> > and appeared unmodified.
> > I replaced a socketed 2016 on a working board with the 6116 pulled from
the
> > above-mentioned board,
> > and the board still worked.
>
> The 2016 and 6116 are essentially the same chip, made by different
> manufacturers. There are other chips with other numbers that are
> essentially equivanet too. All are 2K * 8 static RAMs, pinout like a 2716
> EPROM with WE/ on pin 21. I am not suprised that they are interchangeable
> in the ZX81.
>
> >
> > So I think it's safe to say that L2 is required for a single-RAM-chip
> > board, and that a 6116 is a drop-in replacement for a 2016.
>
> The first part is a false conclusion. It's safe to say that L2 is needed
> for a single-chip _2K_ machine (using a 6116 or similar), which is what
> we've been saying all along. For a single-chip 1K machine (using a
> 4118), you use L1. You've not seen one of those boards, so you've not
> seen a machine with L1 fitted.
>
> -tony
>
>


From davebarnes at adelphia.net  Fri Mar 29 16:42:39 2002
From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
References: <20020329031635.13328.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> <3CA464CE.1F68@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <3CA4EDDF.CC70BEBF@adelphia.net>

Spin down the drive and remove any cartridges. they park and lock
automatically.


Mitch Wright wrote:

> Does anyone know how to park(lock) the heads on RK07 drives for moving?
>
> Thanks, Mitch

--
David Barnes
davebarnes@adelphia.net

OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru
and collector of DEC equipment



From ekklein at pacbell.net  Fri Mar 29 16:43:30 2002
From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik and Karen Klein)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drives
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <006101c1d773$262c8fb0$6e7ba8c0@piii933>

Thank you all for the generous offers of assistance, information and
hardware.

I've already got another pair of drives coming from another list member,
but I really appreciate your offer.

The kindness and generosity of the folks on this list is really amazing.

   Erik S. Klein

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Beaudry
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:16 AM
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
Subject: Osborne Floppy Drives


>>Before you scrap them?
>>
>>I'm looking for some old 5.25" drives to bring back a couple of
Osborne 1s
>>to dual drive status.
>
>Be advised that the Osborne drives are not directly interchangeable
with
>`normal' 5.25" drives.  The ribbon cable to the card edge carries drive
>power as well as signals and is wired differently.  You will need to
>conjure an adapter to use normal ones.

I have an Osborne 1 that has had dead video for a while.  Since it is a 
spare anyway, I would be willing to disassemble the drives, and send
them to 
the original poster (Erik, I think?).  I'd also try to save any cables, 
connectors, screws, etc.

One caveat... this O1 has had dead video since I got it, so I have never

fully tested out the floppies... I suppose at some point I could have 
swapped them into a working O1, but I never had the time....

If the original poster could email me off-list, we can exchange shipping

information.  I will not charge for the drives, but because they're not 
light, I'd appreciate reimbursement for shipping....

Thanks!

Rich B.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From ghldbrd at ccp.com  Fri Mar 29 17:44:41 2002
From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Osborne 1 disk drives (was RE: 5.25" floppy model numbers)
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA4FC69.FA350A88@ccp.com>

"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote:
> > Question: the tech manual says that with the double density option
> > installed, the O1 could read/write IBM 40 track 8 (512 byte) sectors, Xerox
> > 820 40 track, 18 (128 byte) sectors, and DEC 1820 DD 40 track 9 (512 byte)
> > sectors. Can anybody verify this (Fred?)?
> 
> Hmmm.  I don't know the O1 software enough to answer.
> Whether or not it could do the 128 byte sectors will be a function of
> which disk controller chip they used - check with Allison on that. The
> rest would certainly be possible with the hardware, but would be an issue
> of what additional software they provided.  A few developers, such as
> Howard Fullmer at Morrow, integrated some alternate formats into the OS,
> but most that had such support did it by running additional software (such
> as Uniform on the Kaypro).
> 
> On a LATER model, Adam "shot in the foot" Osborne announced that the NEW
> machine "would be able to read and write EVERY DISK FORMAT IN EXISTENCE."
> After enduring considerable heckling at the PC Faire from people informing
> me that Osborne could do stuff that my software could not, I got home to
> find a phone message re: Osborne company wanting to license my software to
> fulfill the promise that they had made!
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


I see the Ozzie uses a 1793 contoller chip for the floppies.  Now I have
the original SSSD drives, probably can't read MS-DOS anything then . . 
.

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:08:23 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: RK07 head lock???
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020330000823.53890.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tony Duell  wrote:
Someone else wrote:
> >   I distinctly remember a drive of a similar form factor in which
> > there was a metal peg with a grab-ring on the end that you stuck into
> > a hole in the positioner assembly to immobilize it...am I thinking of
> > the RM02/03 (a.k.a. CDC 9762)?
> 
> ... Maybe it was the RM02 -- 
> it sounds a bit like a CDC-ism. Or maybe the RA60, but I thought that was

> auto-locking as well.

I remember the rod in the RM02/9762.  ISTR a similar mechanism in the RA60.

-ethan



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From ron at yosemite.net  Fri Mar 29 18:20:36 2002
From: ron at yosemite.net (ron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: North Star Horizon c/pm machines cpm to dos
Message-ID: <3CA504D3.616D2F5E@yosemite.net>

I just found the thread a few days ago, it looks like it lived and died
in 1998? - but I'm hoping there's still life out there.  I need to
transfer cpm floppies to dos, hardsectored unfortuntely to dos
soft-sectored, otherwise there is software I could use.  I have ten
years of work on cpm which I can't access, and being financially
challenged I can't hire someone to do it.  What I need is a northstar
horizon that reads hardsectored 5.5" floppies, which I could borrow or
buy at a low price.
    Thanks for any help you can give,
     -Ron


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Fri Mar 29 18:23:08 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: <005001c1d782$abf4ec00$a4ef9a8d@ajp166>

From: Charles E. Fox 
>>
>>They are already doing a pretty good job of screwing up the broadcast 
>>television industry in the US, with HDTV that no one can afford, and 
>>digital tv standards that only work in a strong signal area.
>
>         Regards


That and the digital stuff has spurs off the bandwidth in all directions
with it's wideband noise.  Damn near ruined parts of 6M ham bad with 
the crud they radiate.

Allison


From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 18:28:29 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: A few old Commodores
In-Reply-To: <20020329200021.YXPR25090.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there>
Message-ID: <20020330002829.37687.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Mike  wrote:
> I received a call saying there was a few old commodores to rescue.

Nice.

> ...a D9090 hard drive...

If you didn't already know, you can drop in an ST-241 if the TM603S in
there is dead.  If all you have is an ST-225, you can move a jumper on
one of the boards in there, to turn a D9090 into a D9060 and only use
4 heads.

There's a low-priority project afoot to completely disassemble the ROMs,
but in the meantime, some success has been made with patching the drive
tables to achieve near the 16MB limit of the filesystem.  Until then,
many more modern MFM mechanisms will work with those boards at their
original 5.0MB or 7.5MB capacity.

-ethan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From bpope at wordstock.com  Fri Mar 29 18:48:43 2002
From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To:  from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 29, 02 12:49:42 pm
Message-ID: <200203300048.TAA06847@wordstock.com>

And thusly Sellam Ismail spake:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> > of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> > the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> > Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> > Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> > the very heart of this community, the software that
> > keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> > someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.
> <...>
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> Ah hell.  This is a dead fish.  It stinks really bad but it'll eventually
> just go away.  I wouldn't worry about it.
> 

Hey Sellam! 

	I do believe *this* one will go away...  But I fear this is only a decoy 
so they can implement a "lesser" version of it.  "They" will say it is a 
compromise.

Cheers, 

Bryan



From sieler at allegro.com  Fri Mar 29 19:26:44 2002
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: A few old Commodores
In-Reply-To: <20020329200021.YXPR25090.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@there>
Message-ID: <3CA4A3D4.26458.634785C@localhost>

Re:
> a D9090 hard drive

Lucky guy!

I've been looking for one of those!


Stan Sieler                                           sieler@allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html          www.allegro.com/sieler


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 19:29:59 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Unix disk images and archiving
In-Reply-To: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
References: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU>
Message-ID: 

Ok, I've gotten the Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB MO drive to work using
the below disktab:

# Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive
# ECMA 512 byte/sector media
# Disktab generated by Jessica Hayden from SunOS /etc/format.dat entry
# and NextAnswers document 1533
PINNACLEOHD-1200|Pinnacle Sierra 1.2GB OHD|OHD-1200:\
  :ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#5359:nt#7:ns#31:ss#512:rm#3600:\
  :fp#320:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\
  :os=sdmach:z0#64:z1#192:ro=a:\
  :pa#0:sa#1162903:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#32:da#4096:ra#1:oa-space:\
   ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa:

   I initialized it with the following commands:

     disk -t "OHD-1200" -i /dev/rsd1a
     newfs -n -v /dev/rsd1a

    I then ejected the disk and reinserted it.  NS mounted it and reads
and writes to/from it just fine.  It gives me nearly 600MB of space.
My next question would be what is the best way of making a bootable
copy of my internal MO disk to the Pinnacle MO?  If I issue the
following command:

     dd if=/dev/rod0a of=/dev/rsd1a

     I get a read error on rod0a and dd aborts.

     If I issue the command:

     dd if=/dev/od0a of=/dev/sd1a

     dd copies data from the internal MO to the external MO but doesn't
copy the data in the subdirectories.  Any suggestions?  Would dump be
better for this?

     Thanks
      Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From sieler at allegro.com  Fri Mar 29 19:41:32 2002
From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere"
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020327190007.00a7ad40@pc>
References: <3CA1DFFE.25188.1ED860C6@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA4A74C.9714.64203EA@localhost>

thanks for the comments!

StanStan Sieler                                           sieler@allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html          www.allegro.com/sieler


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Fri Mar 29 21:12:23 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:

>
> Ah hell.  This is a dead fish.  It stinks really bad but it'll eventually
> just go away.  I wouldn't worry about it.
>

  AAAAGGHHHH!!!!!
  No!!! It won't go away!  Google "UCITA".  Several states have already
passed THAT, and are agressively enforcing it.

  Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on
innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY
bearing on its likelihood of passing.
  These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what
they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not
only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware of, non-MS
computing and digital media technology in general.  They can only listen
to the loudest voice.
  If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
*educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!

  And you guys who are not US residents - you probably have a louder
voice in this than we do.  When senators, sponsors, and reps start
getting mail & calls from people not directly bound by a bill, they'll
listen.

  OK.  End rant.  Deeep, slow breaths.  Ommmmmmmm


	Doc


From univac2 at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 21:30:51 2002
From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

on 3/29/02 9:12 PM, Doc at doc@mdrconsult.com wrote:

> If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
> *educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
> law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
> reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
> as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!

I agree. We should ALL express our feelings about this to our
representatives. Thankfully, the US is still a country where we have the
right to voice our opinions. So voice them!

Yes, I suppose it *could* dissapear. But let's not assume that it will, and
leave it up to chance. We should consider ourselves lucky that we have a
chance to oppose this.

But PLEASE, be mature about it, or the effort could backfire.

--
Owen Robertson


From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 29 21:38:45 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: DEC Hardware design available
References:  <200203251834.KAA09266@spies.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020326192921.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <4.3.2.7.2.20020327153025.027f47c8@kerberos.davies.net.au> <002a01c1d59f$e0e42910$12cdf83e@elisaa9e55ungl>
Message-ID: <005a01c1d79c$6574ada0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

wow!   A  DEC View of Hardware Design
 - Computer Engineering sold at 87$ for the latest one on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1525485834&r=0&t=0&showTu
torial=0&ed=1017371326&indexURL=0&rd=1

Al only got 49$ for his; the recession must be over as
prices are climbing! I know it's online, but it's not the
same...

Anyone have one to sell for ~50$ ;)
heinz


From: "Saku Setala" 
> I have been also looking for this item, so if anybody willing to sell/swap
> one in Finland or nearby, please contact..
> Regards,
> Saku
 > From: "Huw Davies" 
> > At 07:43 PM 26/03/2002 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
> >
> > >   Heh...does that mean you'd sell yours for US$49?
> >
> > Maybe, or swap it for something on my collections list....



From thedm at sunflower.com  Fri Mar 29 21:52:14 2002
From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <004301c1d79e$4a525980$6401a8c0@sunflower.com>

I wrote mine, it's your turn now... all of you.


if  you don't vote, don't whine.  If you don't complain to whom you voted
for, don't whine.

If you do all of the above, at least you have license to bit....  uh, er,
whine.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing


> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
>
> >
> > Ah hell.  This is a dead fish.  It stinks really bad but it'll
eventually
> > just go away.  I wouldn't worry about it.
> >
>
>   AAAAGGHHHH!!!!!
>   No!!! It won't go away!  Google "UCITA".  Several states have already
> passed THAT, and are agressively enforcing it.
>
>   Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on
> innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY
> bearing on its likelihood of passing.
>   These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what
> they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not
> only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware of, non-MS
> computing and digital media technology in general.  They can only listen
> to the loudest voice.
>   If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
> *educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
> law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
> reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
> as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!
>
>   And you guys who are not US residents - you probably have a louder
> voice in this than we do.  When senators, sponsors, and reps start
> getting mail & calls from people not directly bound by a bill, they'll
> listen.
>
>   OK.  End rant.  Deeep, slow breaths.  Ommmmmmmm
>
>
> Doc
>


From mbg at TheWorld.com  Fri Mar 29 22:09:58 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: 
Message-ID: <200203300409.XAA3438915@shell.TheWorld.com>

I've written mine...

From geoffr at zipcon.net  Fri Mar 29 22:47:13 2002
From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: North Star Horizon c/pm machines cpm to dos
In-Reply-To: <3CA504D3.616D2F5E@yosemite.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329204623.04308cb0@mail.zipcon.net>

HOw many floppies?  I have an N* that should still boot :)  and likely 
could kermit the files over to a dos machine

At 04:20 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I just found the thread a few days ago, it looks like it lived and died
>in 1998? - but I'm hoping there's still life out there.  I need to
>transfer cpm floppies to dos, hardsectored unfortuntely to dos
>soft-sectored, otherwise there is software I could use.  I have ten
>years of work on cpm which I can't access, and being financially
>challenged I can't hire someone to do it.  What I need is a northstar
>horizon that reads hardsectored 5.5" floppies, which I could borrow or
>buy at a low price.
>     Thanks for any help you can give,
>      -Ron


From fernande at internet1.net  Fri Mar 29 23:47:46 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Neat trick I just thought of!
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA55182.3010201@internet1.net>

I probably could of gotten it even cheaper, say $5, but I wasn't thinking.

Unfortunately while working on cleaning the chassis today, I dropped it 
in the tub and chipped the tub, big time :-(  The chassis bent somewhat, 
but his hit the tub on one of it's stronger sides.  I was able to bend 
the chassis back in place.

Hopefully, I'll be reassembling tomorrow :-)

Chad

philip@awale.qc.ca wrote:
 > On 29-Mar-2002 Chad Fernandez wrote:
 >
 >>I just bought a IBM PS/2 Model 9577 today for $10.
 >
 >
 > Oh wow.  Why can't I find deals like that around here?  *sigh*
 >
 >
 >>The toilet paper controls
 >>the Goo Gone by surface tension..... at least I assume it's the surface
 >>tension between the toilet paper, case, and the Goo Gone.  Let it soak,
 >>then you can pretty much wipe the area clean :-)
 >
 >
 > Neat!
 >
 > -Philip
 >




From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 23:50:19 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>

I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design.
It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem to
keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
this list might own!

I made a comment to Mr.Armstrong that I removed the
IBM logo from the drive because I didn't think it
would work correctly with a DEC design. Strangely,
this actually came true to a degree; I had a slow PPI
chip that didn't get data from the drive quickly
enough. I tried to save a dollar buying an 82C55
instead of an 82C55-5.

Pics, if interested, are at:


sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm

I wrote up this web page as a brief synopsis of
material I found on the Internet; some may be true and
some may not be true. I would appreciate comments,
etc., from the experts.

I would also appeciate any pointers to interesting
software, especially large BASIC programs, disk based
FOCAL (if this exists?), and so on. 

The logos on the case look OK, but if anyone a broken
piece of case with a Digital or PDP8 logo on it, I'd
really like to have it.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From mcguire at neurotica.com  Fri Mar 29 23:56:51 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: "New" PDP-8 (Loboyko Steve)
References: 
	<20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15525.21411.6466.415217@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 29, Loboyko Steve wrote:
> I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
> operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
> PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design.
> It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem to
> keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
> this list might own!
...
> sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm

  HEY!  That's a really REALLY nice piece of work! :-)

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 30 00:26:17 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:

> > >Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. Doesn't everybody???
> >
> > No.
>
> OK, does _anybody_ (else)?

  Yes, me, if I can ID the problem and have the tools to do the job [1].
Though if I can easily replace the offending _board_ instead, I'd much
rather do that,  I've never been afraid to risk breaking something that
has already failed to perform to my specs.

[1]  I was at one time "certified" by Texas Instruments as a solder
operator, but I haven't kept up the skills and have never owned really
good electronic solder tools.  So I have a pretty good grasp of what a
job involves, and whether I'm equipped to tackle it.
  That said, given a torch with the right tips, which I have, and silver
or gold solder & flux, I can, in the words of Ron Streu, owner of Broken
Feather Jewelry, "solder a gnat's ass shut, without singeing his wings"
  But that's really a completely unrelated skillset.


	Doc


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 30 00:33:38 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <20020330063547.ZTV18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> Odd... This really is a strange concept for me. My first computer 
> (coincidentally a Sinclair) came as a kit and I had to take a soldering 
> iron to it before I could use it... And no I couldn't have afforded to 
> replace it if I'd made a mess...

> Since then I think I've taken a soldering iron to just about every 
> computer I've owned. Including machines that I couldn't replace even if I

> did have the money. And I've never made matters worse.

> Where does this idea come from that a soldering iron will damage a 
> computer. Round here it's generally used to improve the performance of a 
> machine...

Tony, not everyone has the same skills you do, and that's a good thing. 
For some of us a soldering iron is an instrument we use to build or repair
circuitry.  For others, it's an implement of destruction.

I'll wager there are plenty of people on this list who have skills you
don't possess.  That doesn't make them better than you, just different.

The one thing we all have in common on this list is the desire to preserve
and use old computers, and we all try to use our skills to do what we can
to achieve that goal.

Do you really thinks it's unreasonable for someone to say "I'm not
confident of my soldering skills so I don't want to risk this computer's
health by soldering it?"  To me, this is a very rational attitude.

It sure would be boring if we were all the same . . . ;>)

Does any of this make sense to you?

Glen
0/0


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 30 00:44:30 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
Message-ID: 

  I know a lot of y'all use Yahoo Mail....

FYI to those who use Yahoo Mail.

March 29 - Tired of spam you're getting at your free Yahoo! e-mail
account? Get ready for more. Tucked inside a privacy policy change
the company made this week was notice that more Yahoo! e-mail
marketing offers were coming "even if users had formerly indicated
they were unwanted. YAHOO! GRANTED ITSELF PERMISSION to spam by
creating a new "marketing preferences" page that lets users
pick "yes or no" to specific categories of marketing pitches. The
problem is, Yahoo! set every users' option to "yes" - even if long
ago, they indicated they never wanted any Yahoo! spam.

Users who don't want marketing offers from Yahoo have 60
days to do the following: Visit the user profile preferences page at
http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/eval_profile select "Edit your
marketing preferences" from within the Member Information section;
and individually change selections in a series of marketing
categories from "yes" to "no."

In e-mail marketing lingo, the process is known as "opt-out."
But even performing that slightly cumbersome operation is no
guarantee that Yahoo! marketing offers won't come, since the firm
reserves the right to add marketing categories at any time.

"I'd suggest re-checking periodically," writes another
mailing list poster.


From spc at conman.org  Sat Mar 30 01:15:05 2002
From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To:  from "Tony Duell" at Mar 29, 2002 09:06:54 PM
Message-ID: <200203300715.CAA27100@conman.org>

It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated:
> 
> > >Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. Doesn't everybody???
> > 

  Doesn't everybody write their own operating system?

  -spc (Or text editor for that matter? 8-)


From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 30 02:06:52 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote:

> I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
> operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
> PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design.
> It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem to
> keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
> this list might own!
>
> sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm

Now THAT is COOL!

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sat Mar 30 02:55:49 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

As I understand it this isn't just people with Yahoo Mail accounts, if
you're subscribed to any mailing list hosted at Yahoo (remember they bought
out egroups), you're a target.

	Zane

>  I know a lot of y'all use Yahoo Mail....
>
>FYI to those who use Yahoo Mail.
>
>March 29 - Tired of spam you're getting at your free Yahoo! e-mail
>account? Get ready for more. Tucked inside a privacy policy change
>the company made this week was notice that more Yahoo! e-mail
>marketing offers were coming "even if users had formerly indicated
>they were unwanted. YAHOO! GRANTED ITSELF PERMISSION to spam by
>creating a new "marketing preferences" page that lets users
>pick "yes or no" to specific categories of marketing pitches. The
>problem is, Yahoo! set every users' option to "yes" - even if long
>ago, they indicated they never wanted any Yahoo! spam.
>
>Users who don't want marketing offers from Yahoo have 60
>days to do the following: Visit the user profile preferences page at
>http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/eval_profile select "Edit your
>marketing preferences" from within the Member Information section;
>and individually change selections in a series of marketing
>categories from "yes" to "no."
>
>In e-mail marketing lingo, the process is known as "opt-out."
>But even performing that slightly cumbersome operation is no
>guarantee that Yahoo! marketing offers won't come, since the firm
>reserves the right to add marketing categories at any time.
>
>"I'd suggest re-checking periodically," writes another
>mailing list poster.

--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From erd_6502 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 03:38:28 2002
From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020330093828.17642.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Loboyko Steve  wrote:
> I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
> operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
> PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design...

Nice job.  I've done some wire-wrap projects.  Nothing that large for,
I'm sure you can see why, obvious reasons.

One question - I noticed the large soldered "wire" running around the
outside of the board.  From the way it looks like it goes, doesn't that
cause ground-loop problems?  The books I've read on electronic design and
layout have substantially different geometry.

> Pics, if interested, are at:
> 
> http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm

Cool.   BTW, your link to www.sparetimegizmos.com has a typo in it - you
need to put an "http://" in front of it.  The way you have it, it's a
relative link to your own page.

-ethan

BTW, where'd you get the rack-mount case?



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From rhb57 at vol.com  Sat Mar 30 04:45:41 2002
From: rhb57 at vol.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:52 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

In addition to that, you'll no longer be able to get the mail from your
Yahoo! mail via POP (I get mine into Outlook rather than using the webmial
reader at mail.yahoo.com - this is unless you fork out some cash.

=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
=> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 2:56 AM
=> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
=>
=>
=> As I understand it this isn't just people with Yahoo Mail accounts, if
=> you're subscribed to any mailing list hosted at Yahoo (remember
=> they bought
=> out egroups), you're a target.
=>
=> 	Zane
=>
=> >  I know a lot of y'all use Yahoo Mail....
=> >
=> >FYI to those who use Yahoo Mail.
=> >
=> >March 29 - Tired of spam you're getting at your free Yahoo! e-mail
=> >account? Get ready for more. Tucked inside a privacy policy change
=> >the company made this week was notice that more Yahoo! e-mail
=> >marketing offers were coming "even if users had formerly indicated
=> >they were unwanted. YAHOO! GRANTED ITSELF PERMISSION to spam by
=> >creating a new "marketing preferences" page that lets users
=> >pick "yes or no" to specific categories of marketing pitches. The
=> >problem is, Yahoo! set every users' option to "yes" - even if long
=> >ago, they indicated they never wanted any Yahoo! spam.
=> >
=> >Users who don't want marketing offers from Yahoo have 60
=> >days to do the following: Visit the user profile preferences page at
=> >http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/eval_profile select "Edit your
=> >marketing preferences" from within the Member Information section;
=> >and individually change selections in a series of marketing
=> >categories from "yes" to "no."
=> >
=> >In e-mail marketing lingo, the process is known as "opt-out."
=> >But even performing that slightly cumbersome operation is no
=> >guarantee that Yahoo! marketing offers won't come, since the firm
=> >reserves the right to add marketing categories at any time.
=> >
=> >"I'd suggest re-checking periodically," writes another
=> >mailing list poster.
=>
=> --
=> | Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
=> | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
=> |                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
=> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
=> |     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
=> |          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
=> |                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |
=>


From tothwolf at concentric.net  Sat Mar 30 06:16:01 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:

> > >Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. Doesn't everybody???
> > 
> > No.
> 
> OK, does _anybody_ (else)?

I do, when I have access to the parts I need. I don't yet have the proper
tools for soldering surface mount components, but I manage when I have to.

Speaking of repairs and parts, I just uncovered a box of mid to late 1970s
74/74LS TTL chips I got in an auction years ago. Most seem to be in good
shape, but some of them have their pins corroded due to the conductive
foam their previous owner stored them in. Anyone know of a good way to
clean the remaining crud and rust from the pins? Would an ultrasonic
cleaner be safe to use on chips this old? Some of those chips I'll likely
end up tossing since they lost pins to the corrosion.

-Toth


From vaxman at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 30 08:54:28 2002
From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


Hehehehehe...

Most of the spam I get nowadays comes from yahoo.uk... Why shouldn't
yahoo join in the fun... Just get them added to the global no-spam
list :)

clint


On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:

>   I know a lot of y'all use Yahoo Mail....
> 
> FYI to those who use Yahoo Mail.
> 
> March 29 - Tired of spam you're getting at your free Yahoo! e-mail
> account? Get ready for more. Tucked inside a privacy policy change
> the company made this week was notice that more Yahoo! e-mail
> marketing offers were coming "even if users had formerly indicated
> they were unwanted. YAHOO! GRANTED ITSELF PERMISSION to spam by
> creating a new "marketing preferences" page that lets users
> pick "yes or no" to specific categories of marketing pitches. The
> problem is, Yahoo! set every users' option to "yes" - even if long
> ago, they indicated they never wanted any Yahoo! spam.
> 
> Users who don't want marketing offers from Yahoo have 60
> days to do the following: Visit the user profile preferences page at
> http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/eval_profile select "Edit your
> marketing preferences" from within the Member Information section;
> and individually change selections in a series of marketing
> categories from "yes" to "no."
> 
> In e-mail marketing lingo, the process is known as "opt-out."
> But even performing that slightly cumbersome operation is no
> guarantee that Yahoo! marketing offers won't come, since the firm
> reserves the right to add marketing categories at any time.
> 
> "I'd suggest re-checking periodically," writes another
> mailing list poster.
> 
> 


From foo at siconic.com  Sat Mar 30 08:55:13 2002
From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

> Would it be convenient for you to repost the URL? and maybe some
> suggested e-mail addresses? (does somebody maintain a good list of
> legislator addresses?)

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/legbranch/legbranch.html

...has links to Congress and the Senate.


Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 09:23:27 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
References: <200203300715.CAA27100@conman.org>
Message-ID: <3CA5D86F.432C0E5F@jetnet.ab.ca>

Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote:
> 
> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated:
> >
> > > >Anyway, I repair my PCs to component level as well.. Doesn't everybody???
> > >
> 
>   Doesn't everybody write their own operating system?
> 
>   -spc (Or text editor for that matter? 8-)

It is hard because the tools today don't bootstrap nicely. There are
still a few home grown os's out there but they seem all to be for the
6502 or the 6809.

http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/omu.html	unix like 6809
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~stark/     flex clone 6809 , 68000 
http://www.rtmx.com/UniFLEX/		real flex 6809
http://www.geex.hpg.ig.com.br/index.html  geex ( 8086 )
http://www.cpm.z80.de/index.html	CP/M  archive site
http://lng.sourceforge.net/		lunix 6502
http://elks.sourceforge.net/		embeded linux kernal 8086

Lets not forget LINUX,MINUX and FLEX (6800/6809) is still around and
lots PDP-8 software too. I am building a nice 12/24 bit cpu with a
wopping 256Kb , anybody care to write a OS for it.:)

From edick at idcomm.com  Sat Mar 30 09:43:47 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
References: 
Message-ID: <001f01c1d801$ae742a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

If enough folks simply block all emails from the Yahoo.com domain, a lot of
SPAM will go away.  It's the same for mindspring, Hotmail, MSN, AOL, etc.  It
isn't convenient if you occasionally communicate with folks at these domains,
but it's the fact that they give away free webmail services for the asking
that makes them attractive origins for SPAM, since one cannot do any good by
blocking a single email address, thanks to the fact that spammers can get a
new email address for the asking, the only option is to isolate the commercial
domains that support SPAM in this way.

Sooner or later the forces of economics, thanks to the ridiculous consumption
of unpaid bandwidth by spammers, we're going to have to pay for our use of the
'net.  The choice is between whether we pay for our own use or whether we pay
for the SPAM too.  What's going to have to be sacrificed in the interest of
paying only for the traffic one generates rather than what one receives, is
the anonymity.  If people who, ultimately, will be asked to pay for their use
of the infrastructure, insist that they are to be required to pay only for
what they transmit, as they do with the USPS-provided junk mail, for example,
they must insist that the genuine originator name and physical address, etc.
of the sender be incorportated in the email that's sent.  Right now, the
SPAMmer spoofs a sender address. writes a single message with 6.23*10**23
destination addresses, and sends the thing, letting the intermediate routers
deal with the problem of distributing the message to each destination.  This
costs him nothing, yet consumes a huge proportion of the bandwidth.  If the
cost per bit were severely skewed, so that the guy sending 10 MB/month got his
service free, while the guy sending 10 MB/hour had to pay $100K per bit,
starting with the first bit, the use of that bandwidth would change.  Now
that's extreme, but you get the picture.

Until senders (1) are prevented from sending a single message to multiple
destinations, and (2) are required to pay, say, 2**n! bucks per bit per month
for their bandwidth, we're all running the risk of having to pay for what we
receive as well as what we generate.

Think about it!

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" 
To: "Classic Computers" 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)


>
> Hehehehehe...
>
> Most of the spam I get nowadays comes from yahoo.uk... Why shouldn't
> yahoo join in the fun... Just get them added to the global no-spam
> list :)
>
> clint
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Doc Shipley wrote:
>
> >   I know a lot of y'all use Yahoo Mail....
> >
> > FYI to those who use Yahoo Mail.
> >
> > March 29 - Tired of spam you're getting at your free Yahoo! e-mail
> > account? Get ready for more. Tucked inside a privacy policy change
> > the company made this week was notice that more Yahoo! e-mail
> > marketing offers were coming "even if users had formerly indicated
> > they were unwanted. YAHOO! GRANTED ITSELF PERMISSION to spam by
> > creating a new "marketing preferences" page that lets users
> > pick "yes or no" to specific categories of marketing pitches. The
> > problem is, Yahoo! set every users' option to "yes" - even if long
> > ago, they indicated they never wanted any Yahoo! spam.
> >
> > Users who don't want marketing offers from Yahoo have 60
> > days to do the following: Visit the user profile preferences page at
> > http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/eval_profile select "Edit your
> > marketing preferences" from within the Member Information section;
> > and individually change selections in a series of marketing
> > categories from "yes" to "no."
> >
> > In e-mail marketing lingo, the process is known as "opt-out."
> > But even performing that slightly cumbersome operation is no
> > guarantee that Yahoo! marketing offers won't come, since the firm
> > reserves the right to add marketing categories at any time.
> >
> > "I'd suggest re-checking periodically," writes another
> > mailing list poster.
> >
> >
>
>


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 10:07:00 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: RE: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd) (Russ Blakeman)
References: 
	
Message-ID: <15525.58020.675512.604223@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Russ Blakeman wrote:
> In addition to that, you'll no longer be able to get the mail from your
> Yahoo! mail via POP (I get mine into Outlook rather than using the webmial
> reader at mail.yahoo.com - this is unless you fork out some cash.

  Wow...sounds like Yahoo got some suits.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From cisin at xenosoft.com  Sat Mar 30 10:14:18 2002
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <004301c1d79e$4a525980$6401a8c0@sunflower.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bill Girnius wrote:
> I wrote mine, it's your turn now... all of you.
> if  you don't vote, don't whine.  If you don't complain to whom you voted
> for, don't whine.
> 
> If you do all of the above, at least you have license to bit....  uh, er,
> whine.

Would it be convenient for you to repost the URL?
and maybe some suggested e-mail addresses?  (does somebody maintain a good
list of legislator addresses?)

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com


From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:59 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <20020330093828.17642.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020330164559.76170.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>

Response to below:

1. The board I obtained (which is otherwise very nice)
has no power or ground tracks on it. So, I generally
solder a fat silverplated bare wire on top for +5 and
one for ground. On a board this big I put a few down
the middle also. I should have put a +5 down the
middle also.

2. The rackmount case was purchased from Jameco,
shipped knocked down, of course. It's from Taiwan,
somewhat flimsy sheet metal except the front, but I
thought it was a pretty good price compared to others
I've seen (around $42 USD). They have othe heights
also.


--- Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> 
> --- Loboyko Steve  wrote:
> > I just completed the very nasty job of downloading
> the
> > operating system and a few BASIC programs to my
> "new"
> > PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's
> design...
> 
> Nice job.  I've done some wire-wrap projects. 
> Nothing that large for,
> I'm sure you can see why, obvious reasons.
> 
> One question - I noticed the large soldered "wire"
> running around the
> outside of the board.  From the way it looks like it
> goes, doesn't that
> cause ground-loop problems?  The books I've read on
> electronic design and
> layout have substantially different geometry.
> 
> > Pics, if interested, are at:
> > 
> > http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm
> 
> Cool.   BTW, your link to www.sparetimegizmos.com
> has a typo in it - you
> need to put an "http://" in front of it.  The way
> you have it, it's a
> relative link to your own page.
> 
> -ethan
> 
> BTW, where'd you get the rack-mount case?
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From h.wolter at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 30 10:49:34 2002
From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d80a$df52c260$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>

Being a hardware guy - I want to know - did you (or Mr. A)
fully emulate a DEC drive (RK05??) or other drive
with a microcontroller ? or did you write a device
driver to support the IDE drive under OS8? Either trick would
be very slick indeed ;)

Regards and congratulations on getting your baby running.
Once and a while you see these Intersil 61xx chips appear 
on ebay.. maybe others could duplicate your efforts..

Cheers, Heinz

Re:
From: "Loboyko Steve" 
Subject: "New" PDP-8


> I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
> operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
> PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design.
> It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem to
> keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
> this list might own!
> 
> I made a comment to Mr.Armstrong that I removed the
> IBM logo from the drive because I didn't think it
> would work correctly with a DEC design. Strangely,
> this actually came true to a degree; I had a slow PPI
> chip that didn't get data from the drive quickly
> enough. I tried to save a dollar buying an 82C55
> instead of an 82C55-5.



From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com  Sat Mar 30 11:21:45 2002
From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Fwd: Re: Is anyone interested in military Compupro s-100
  computers?
References: <3CA5E943.461EA2F7@idt.net>
Message-ID: <200203300921450739.AEB22FEC@192.168.42.129>

Hi, gang,

	I received an E-mail this morning from a fellow who's looking to offload a whole bunch of older S-100 stuff for cost-of-shipping only. Said E-mail is attached below.

	His area code is 914, which I seem to recall is somewhere on the east coast.

	Since I'm no longer in the computer arena, outside of what I keep around to maintain my 'net presence, I figured someone on the list could give the stuff a good home.

	Enjoy!

*********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE  ***********

On 30-Mar-02 at 11:35 Joe Soll, CSW, DAPA  wrote:

>I have a large collection of S-100 computers (mostly Compupro)  and
>peripherals which I want to give to a collector for the cost of shipping
>only.
>
>The list of equipment is at:
>http://www.adoptioncrossroads.org/antiqcmp.html
>
>It's  your for the asking
>
>Be well,
>
>Joe:)
>
>
>
>
>

*********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE  ***********
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior
to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)


From torquil at rockbridge.net  Sat Mar 30 11:51:43 2002
From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
Message-ID: <00c301c1d815$1813d3f0$0200a8c0@tm2000>

 Hi,
 
     I have a PowerMac 7100/66av (almost 10 years old now) and i broke like
  half the keys on the keyboard and the mouse, i was wondering if there is
 any
  way to do one of the following to get it up without them.
 
      Make a disk of some sort which runs and sets up VNC and the network?
      Get a MkLinux disk that sets up the network and sshd?
 
 
  thanks,
  torquil
 
 


From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 12:01:12 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <001a01c1d80a$df52c260$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE>
Message-ID: <20020330180112.21387.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, other than a few extremely minor hardware
changes, I did -absolutely- no design work on this, Mr
Armstrong did over the course of many years!

How it worked was this:

1. He has a PDP8 emulator for Windows, which does
emulate an RK05, and also the RAM chips in the "real"
design.

2. He wrote device drivers for the RAM and the IDE
drive in assembler, which you assemble with PAL8 and
put on an emulated RX01 so that the RAM disk can be
mounted.

3. Then, you SYS one of the RAM disks with the RAM
disk bootable.

4. Then, you download that RAM image to the BTS6120
(single board PD8) and boot from that.

4. Then, you sys the IDE drive in the physical BTS6120
design so that it is bootable.

5. Then, you copy stuff from the RAM disk in the
emulator to the RAM disk in the BTS6120, and repeat.

So, the RAM and IDE drives are "legitimate" OS8
devices. The IDE is broken up into 8 partitions of
about 2 MW each (so even the oldest IDE drive that
supports LBA, which any drive over 600 meg probably
does) will work. I used the 2.5" drive only for space
and power reasons.

An additional complication was that the 512Kx8 ram
chips in the original design (static, low power) were
quite expensive for four of them so I used 128K ram
chips that I got on a good deal instead. So I had to
cut 3/4 of the disk image off(after "squishing" -
packing the disk of course) before downloading. So I
had to repeat (5) above several times.

It took me almost as long to figure out how to do this
as it did to build it. Mr. Armstrong was as helpful as
he could be but there was no substitute for "pounding
it into submission".

On the 6120 chips (I don't think you could use 6100
chips in this) - I got mine socketed in a DECmate CPU
board for $25.00. I'm getting a few as a spare. A drag
about the DECmate board was that its a multilayer
board, and in spite of my best desoldering efforts,
the chips are trimmed short and you can't really use
many parts from it other than the socketed BTS6120 and
a few EPROMS. Bob Armstrong has PCB's available but
they are pretty expensive because they are multilayer
and lets face it, he can't have hundreds made at a
time. On the other hand, I paid myself about $5.00 an
hour wire wrapping instead!


--- Heinz Wolter  wrote:
> Being a hardware guy - I want to know - did you (or
> Mr. A)
> fully emulate a DEC drive (RK05??) or other drive
> with a microcontroller ? or did you write a device
> driver to support the IDE drive under OS8? Either
> trick would
> be very slick indeed ;)
> 
> Regards and congratulations on getting your baby
> running.
> Once and a while you see these Intersil 61xx chips
> appear 
> on ebay.. maybe others could duplicate your
> efforts..
> 
> Cheers, Heinz
> 
> Re:
> From: "Loboyko Steve" 
> Subject: "New" PDP-8
> 
> 
> > I just completed the very nasty job of downloading
> the
> > operating system and a few BASIC programs to my
> "new"
> > PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's
> design.
> > It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem
> to
> > keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
> > this list might own!
> > 
> > I made a comment to Mr.Armstrong that I removed
> the
> > IBM logo from the drive because I didn't think it
> > would work correctly with a DEC design. Strangely,
> > this actually came true to a degree; I had a slow
> PPI
> > chip that didn't get data from the drive quickly
> > enough. I tried to save a dollar buying an 82C55
> > instead of an 82C55-5.
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From rdd at rddavis.org  Sat Mar 30 12:04:02 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
Message-ID: <20020330180401.GA24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Doc, from writings of Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 09:12:23PM -0600:
>   If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
> *educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
> law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
> reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
> as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!

Thomas Jefferson had a better idea about how to "communicate" with
unreasonable politicians, who have no respect for their constituents,
and it didn't involve being nice to the elected tax-hungry destroyers
of liberty and freedom.  Of course, this is something that Americans
aren't supposed to think about, which is why the spooks are given more
and more funding to watch over us.

...and, let's get that UUCP network ready just in case all this idiocy
does become law, and stockpile more computers so that none of us will be
dependent upon having to use any of the new mandated computers with
the copy-protection rubbish built in.

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From mythtech at mac.com  Sat Mar 30 12:31:02 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
Message-ID: 

>     I have a PowerMac 7100/66av (almost 10 years old now) and i broke like
>  half the keys on the keyboard and the mouse, i was wondering if there is
> any
>  way to do one of the following to get it up without them.
> 
>      Make a disk of some sort which runs and sets up VNC and the network?
>      Get a MkLinux disk that sets up the network and sshd?

If you have access to another mac, you could burn a bootable CD 
preconfigured with what you want, boot from it (provided you can still 
use the letter C on the keyboard), and then access the Mac via VNC (or 
whatever you setup on the CD).

Or, you could just check eBay, as new ADB keyboard for that computer will 
likely be found for around $5. (mouse being about the same cost)

-chris




From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sat Mar 30 12:36:18 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
In-Reply-To: <00c301c1d815$1813d3f0$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: 

Why can't you just get a new keyboard and mouse?  They're usually
available pretty cheaply surplus. Here, I can get them for $5ea.


On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:

>  Hi,
>
>      I have a PowerMac 7100/66av (almost 10 years old now) and i broke like
>   half the keys on the keyboard and the mouse, i was wondering if there is
>  any
>   way to do one of the following to get it up without them.
>
>       Make a disk of some sort which runs and sets up VNC and the network?
>       Get a MkLinux disk that sets up the network and sshd?
>
>
>   thanks,
>   torquil
>
>
>


From rdd at rddavis.org  Sat Mar 30 12:39:22 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <20020330063547.ZTV18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
References: <20020330063547.ZTV18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>
Message-ID: <20020330183921.GB24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Glen Goodwin, from writings of Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 01:33:38AM -0500:
> Do you really thinks it's unreasonable for someone to say "I'm not
> confident of my soldering skills so I don't want to risk this computer's
> health by soldering it?"  To me, this is a very rational attitude.

All that person needs to do is get a soldering iron, solder, some bits
of wire, a scrap circuit board, something to tin the iron with (a
sponge or even a wet paper towel will do), perhaps a clip-on heat
sink, and start practicing.  First practice with some wire; create a
few Western Union joints and get the knack creating a good solder
joint.  Next, practice unsoldering and soldering some resistors and
capacitors from the circuit board (start with the non-surface mount
ones!) and then some ICs.  
 
Learning to solder properly is not difficult.  I was given a soldering
iron and Radio Shack P-Box kits to build as a young child, when I was
in elementary school.  Hence, soldering is the sort of thing that even
a young child can learn to do, so there's no excuse for any
computer-collecting adult to not know how to do it.  Many computers
can't be restored without the ability to use a soldering iron, and if
one isn't going to repair them so that they'll work again, there's not
much point in collecting them.

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sat Mar 30 12:40:54 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330055019.66802.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA606B6.2010901@dragonsweb.org>

Loboyko Steve wrote:

> Pics, if interested, are at:
> 
> 
> sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm
> 

Way cool.

Is wire-wrap still a common prototyping technique? There doesn't seem to 
be a lot of equipment and supplies out there anymore. Can you recommend 
any good sources?

jbdigriz



From healyzh at aracnet.com  Sat Mar 30 12:41:20 2002
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
References: <004301c1d79e$4a525980$6401a8c0@sunflower.com>
Message-ID: 

>On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Bill Girnius wrote:
>> I wrote mine, it's your turn now... all of you.
>> if  you don't vote, don't whine.  If you don't complain to whom you voted
>> for, don't whine.
>>
>> If you do all of the above, at least you have license to bit....  uh, er,
>> whine.
>
>Would it be convenient for you to repost the URL?
>and maybe some suggested e-mail addresses?  (does somebody maintain a good
>list of legislator addresses?)
>
>--
>Grumpy Ol' Fred        cisin@xenosoft.com

The EFF Alert on this has info on where to send comments
http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html  BTW, it looks
like people only have till the 8th to comment on this.  The EFF page also
has a sample letter.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Sat Mar 30 12:53:10 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
References:  <001f01c1d801$ae742a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <3CA60996.2D79BBC8@compsys.to>

>Richard Erlacher wrote:

> If enough folks simply block all emails from the Yahoo.com domain, a lot of
> SPAM will go away.  It's the same for mindspring, Hotmail, MSN, AOL, etc.  It
> isn't convenient if you occasionally communicate with folks at these domains,
> but it's the fact that they give away free webmail services for the asking
> that makes them attractive origins for SPAM, since one cannot do any good by
> blocking a single email address, thanks to the fact that spammers can get a
> new email address for the asking, the only option is to isolate the commercial
> domains that support SPAM in this way.
>
> Sooner or later the forces of economics, thanks to the ridiculous consumption
> of unpaid bandwidth by spammers, we're going to have to pay for our use of the
> 'net.  The choice is between whether we pay for our own use or whether we pay
> for the SPAM too.  What's going to have to be sacrificed in the interest of
> paying only for the traffic one generates rather than what one receives, is
> the anonymity.  If people who, ultimately, will be asked to pay for their use
> of the infrastructure, insist that they are to be required to pay only for
> what they transmit, as they do with the USPS-provided junk mail, for example,
> they must insist that the genuine originator name and physical address, etc.
> of the sender be incorportated in the email that's sent.  Right now, the
> SPAMmer spoofs a sender address. writes a single message with 6.23*10**23
> destination addresses, and sends the thing, letting the intermediate routers
> deal with the problem of distributing the message to each destination.  This
> costs him nothing, yet consumes a huge proportion of the bandwidth.  If the
> cost per bit were severely skewed, so that the guy sending 10 MB/month got his
> service free, while the guy sending 10 MB/hour had to pay $100K per bit,
> starting with the first bit, the use of that bandwidth would change.  Now
> that's extreme, but you get the picture.
>
> Until senders (1) are prevented from sending a single message to multiple
> destinations, and (2) are required to pay, say, 2**n! bucks per bit per month
> for their bandwidth, we're all running the risk of having to pay for what we
> receive as well as what we generate.
>
> Think about it!
>
> Dick

Jerome Fine replies:

While I agree with most of what Dick says, in the short
run I have found what may be a much easier solution.
By being prepared to change my e-mail address as frequently
as necessary, I now have the ability to completely block
spam except where it originates directly from a list membership
like with yahoo.  And if that ever gets out of hand, I will
just stop subscribing to the "infected" list and change my
e-mail address again.

Up until the middle of March, 2002, the e-mail was getting
very annoying.  Now it has been contained.  And since I
had to change my ISP (and therefore my e-mail address
in any case), I took the opportunity.

Up until now, no one on this list has responded in public
although I have had a few private comments.  I take this
to mean that changing one's e-mail address is considered
surrender, but is it really any different than a business or
person moving to a new address?  I agree that I would
probably have been stubborn myself if the move had not
been forced due to the ISP change, but now that I have
made the switch, I must say that it was not as bad as I
thought it would be.  I agree that some overlap with the
old e-mail address is needed, but after I canceled the two
most frequent lists (this one and one other), 90% of the
e-mail on the old e-mail address is now spam.

What I don't know is what the old ISP will do with the
spam once the old e-mail address is no longer valid.
If the e-mail gets bounced, will that eventually result
in the spam being discontinued or will they just keep
on sending?

By the way, does everyone understand my "replacement"
paragraph at the end?  Of course if everyone chose the
same replacement algorithm, then harvesting an e-mail
address would again be simple.  But there must be many
such "replacement" methods that are just as simple.

If anyone wants feedback on how successful this method
is and how frequently I need to change, please ask?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From vance at ikickass.org  Sat Mar 30 13:02:49 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Fwd: Re: Is anyone interested in military Compupro s-100 
 computers?
In-Reply-To: <200203300921450739.AEB22FEC@192.168.42.129>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Bruce Lane wrote:

> 	His area code is 914, which I seem to recall is somewhere on the
> east coast.

Westchester County, NY.

Peace...  Sridhar


From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 30 13:16:20 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
Message-ID: <00b101c1d820$5cf41e20$a4ef9a8d@ajp166>

Steve,

Many years ago I did the TU58 emulator that Bob designed.
An excellent and useful tool.

FYI: I also ahve a 6100 (intersil board with mods) and a 6120
based design.  The old PDP-8 instruction set is most interesting
and loads of fun to write code with.

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: Loboyko Steve 
To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org 
Date: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: "New" PDP-8


>I just completed the very nasty job of downloading the
>operating system and a few BASIC programs to my "new"
>PDP8, which is built from Robert Armstrong's design.
>It only draws about 5 watts, so it isn't a problem to
>keep on all the time, unlike others that people on
>this list might own!
>
>I made a comment to Mr.Armstrong that I removed the
>IBM logo from the drive because I didn't think it
>would work correctly with a DEC design. Strangely,
>this actually came true to a degree; I had a slow PPI
>chip that didn't get data from the drive quickly
>enough. I tried to save a dollar buying an 82C55
>instead of an 82C55-5.
>
>Pics, if interested, are at:
>
>
>sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm
>
>I wrote up this web page as a brief synopsis of
>material I found on the Internet; some may be true and
>some may not be true. I would appreciate comments,
>etc., from the experts.
>
>I would also appeciate any pointers to interesting
>software, especially large BASIC programs, disk based
>FOCAL (if this exists?), and so on. 
>
>The logos on the case look OK, but if anyone a broken
>piece of case with a Digital or PDP8 logo on it, I'd
>really like to have it.
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
>http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From torquil at rockbridge.net  Sat Mar 30 13:23:56 2002
From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
References: 
Message-ID: <011801c1d820$74375160$0200a8c0@tm2000>

Oops I forgot to mention that the ethernet transceiver is also likely
broken.

You can't get those for $5 too can you? :)

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: "Classic Computers" 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: PowerMac 7100/66av


> Why can't you just get a new keyboard and mouse?  They're usually
> available pretty cheaply surplus. Here, I can get them for $5ea.
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:
>
> >  Hi,
> >
> >      I have a PowerMac 7100/66av (almost 10 years old now) and i broke
like
> >   half the keys on the keyboard and the mouse, i was wondering if there
is
> >  any
> >   way to do one of the following to get it up without them.
> >
> >       Make a disk of some sort which runs and sets up VNC and the
network?
> >       Get a MkLinux disk that sets up the network and sshd?
> >
> >
> >   thanks,
> >   torquil
> >
> >
> >
>
>


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 13:25:12 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To:  from "Doc" at Mar 29, 2 09:12:23 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 387 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/c56834ba/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 13:35:27 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <20020330063547.ZTV18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 30, 2 01:33:38 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1374 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/75194f8a/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 13:38:36 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)
In-Reply-To: <200203300715.CAA27100@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Mar 30, 2 02:15:05 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 727 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/149c94d5/attachment.ksh
From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sat Mar 30 13:44:14 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References:   <20020330180401.GA24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <3CA6158E.3080001@dragonsweb.org>

R. D. Davis wrote:
> Quothe Doc, from writings of Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 09:12:23PM -0600:
> 
>>  If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
>>*educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
>>law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
>>reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
>>as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!
> 
> 
> Thomas Jefferson had a better idea about how to "communicate" with
> unreasonable politicians, who have no respect for their constituents,
> and it didn't involve being nice to the elected tax-hungry destroyers
> of liberty and freedom.  Of course, this is something that Americans
> aren't supposed to think about, which is why the spooks are given more
> and more funding to watch over us.

Yes, well, tea-parties, tar-and-feathering events, and pistols-at-dawn 
have fallen out of favor, unfortunately, along with fist-fights on the 
floor of Congress.

There is no need to fawn. A disrespectful rant will probably be ignored, 
but feel free to express your displeasure with this bill in the 
strongest possible terms. If you intend to do everything in your power 
to see to it that your Senator is not re-elected if they vote for it, 
now is the best possible time to inform them.

> 
> ...and, let's get that UUCP network ready just in case all this idiocy
> does become law, and stockpile more computers so that none of us will be
> dependent upon having to use any of the new mandated computers with
> the copy-protection rubbish built in.
> 

UUCP has some security weaknesses that make it not the best choice for 
plotting sedition. There's not anything you can do with it that you 
can't do better with TCP/IP, and you'd need to anyway. Outside of 
hobbyist use, UUCP may be useful as a back-up out-of-band comm channel, 
but that's about it.

Oh, and I'm hip deep in computers already. :-)

jbdigriz


From sloboyko at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 13:49:22 2002
From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <3CA606B6.2010901@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
made is less than the cost of a good electronics
technician, I think it started to die in the late
80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
BGA chips, etc.

I get stuff from:
Jameco More expensive than they used to be. Still the
best (non-mindbogglingly expensive Augat)sockets, but
have gone up in price a lot.

Marlin Jones (www.mpja.com) Pretty good blank boards.

BG Micro (www.bgmicro.com) Some good stuff!

Digi-key Outrageous prices, but they
have...well...everything, and they deliver.

Unicorn Electronics Good supplier of older chips.

Incredibly, I still use a hand WW tool from Radio
Shack. It's cheap, it works!

New England Wire Prep has the best prices on wire wrap
wire itself. I've found Jameco's to be strangely hard
to work with, never mind expensive.

Ebay - learn to work the search engine and you can get
some real deals no one else has found!

WW sockets are getting more expensive. I won't use
anything but machine tooled pin sockets, which are
even more expensive. Buf going nuts and wasting your
precious free time over a flaky socket is really,
really expensive.

--- "James B. DiGriz"  wrote:
> Loboyko Steve wrote:

> > Pics, if interested, are at:
> > 
> > 
> > sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm
> > 
> 
> Way cool.
> 
> Is wire-wrap still a common prototyping technique?
> There doesn't seem to 
> be a lot of equipment and supplies out there
> anymore. Can you recommend 
> any good sources?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sat Mar 30 13:59:22 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <20020330183921.GB24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 30, 2 01:39:22 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1523 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/fab73885/attachment.ksh
From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 14:06:04 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (Loboyko Steve)
References: <3CA606B6.2010901@dragonsweb.org>
	<20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15526.6828.314947.765420@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Loboyko Steve wrote:
> Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
> made is less than the cost of a good electronics
> technician, I think it started to die in the late
> 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> BGA chips, etc.

  Not commonly used, or not the "latest greatest thing"?  I know of
several small outfits that do lots of wire-wrapping.  And I mean
*lots*.

         -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 30 14:13:21 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <20020330180401.GA24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: 

On 30 Mar 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:

> Quothe Doc, from writings of Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 09:12:23PM -0600:
> >   If we don't all voice our opinions and share our *rational*,
> > *educated* viewpoint with these people, this bill could very well become
> > law.  WRITE your representatives.  EMAIL them.  CALL them.  Be nice.  Be
> > reasonable.  State your qualifications as well as your concerns.  Speak
> > as an ally, not an enemy.  BUT SPEAK!!!!
>
> Thomas Jefferson had a better idea about how to "communicate" with
> unreasonable politicians, who have no respect for their constituents,
> and it didn't involve being nice to the elected tax-hungry destroyers
> of liberty and freedom.  Of course, this is something that Americans
> aren't supposed to think about, which is why the spooks are given more
> and more funding to watch over us.

  I wholly agree.  But we're talking short-term at the moment.

> ...and, let's get that UUCP network ready just in case all this idiocy
> does become law, and stockpile more computers so that none of us will be
> dependent upon having to use any of the new mandated computers with
> the copy-protection rubbish built in.

   ***Mr. Davis demonstrates that this thread IS on-topic**

	:^)

	Doc


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sat Mar 30 14:14:07 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
Message-ID: <10d.fef1d4a.29d7768f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/30/02 11:33:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
torquil@rockbridge.net writes:


> Oops I forgot to mention that the ethernet transceiver is also likely
> broken.
> 
> You can't get those for $5 too can you? :)
> 
> 

I saw one in the Lincoln City, Oregon, Goodwill for $7 two days ago.

Paxton
Astoria, OR
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/3d6a833d/attachment.html
From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sat Mar 30 14:14:46 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA61CB6.3070300@dragonsweb.org>

Loboyko Steve wrote:
> Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
> made is less than the cost of a good electronics
> technician, I think it started to die in the late
> 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> BGA chips, etc.
> 
> I get stuff from:
> Jameco More expensive than they used to be. Still the
> best (non-mindbogglingly expensive Augat)sockets, but
> have gone up in price a lot.
> 
> Marlin Jones (www.mpja.com) Pretty good blank boards.
> 
> BG Micro (www.bgmicro.com) Some good stuff!
> 
> Digi-key Outrageous prices, but they
> have...well...everything, and they deliver.
> 
> Unicorn Electronics Good supplier of older chips.
> 
> Incredibly, I still use a hand WW tool from Radio
> Shack. It's cheap, it works!
> 
> New England Wire Prep has the best prices on wire wrap
> wire itself. I've found Jameco's to be strangely hard
> to work with, never mind expensive.
> 
> Ebay - learn to work the search engine and you can get
> some real deals no one else has found!
> 
> WW sockets are getting more expensive. I won't use
> anything but machine tooled pin sockets, which are
> even more expensive. Buf going nuts and wasting your
> precious free time over a flaky socket is really,
> really expensive.
> 

Thank you. That's very useful information.

jbdigriz




From micro at formatex.org  Sat Mar 30 14:16:53 2002
From: micro at formatex.org (FORMATEX)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: Call for Papers for Microscopy Book Series
Message-ID: <200203302019.g2UKJ1123159@ns2.ezwind.net>

Dear colleague

In the very next future, FORMATEX, a technological 
organization located in Badajoz (Spain), will edit a series of 
books on the science and technology of Microscopy, as well as 
on educational applications. This letter is to invite you to 
take part of this edition, since we are searching for contributors
from all microscopy technique and applications. Information on 
the Call for Paper for this edition is available at

http://www.formatex.org/micro2002/callforpaper.htm

The book will be edited in a citeable form (ISBN) 
and a copy of the book plus 25 reprints will be sent by mail to
the corresponding author.

If you are interested in contributing to this edition or have
any question, please contact us at 
micro@formatex.org, or directly to the editor:

A.Mendez Vilas
Physics Department
University of Extremadura
Avda. de Elvas s/n
06071 Badajoz
SPAIN
E-mail: amvilas@unex.es

Regards

J.A. Mesa Gonzalez
FORMATEX

From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Sat Mar 30 14:28:17 2002
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
Message-ID: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:06:04 -0500 Dave McGuire 
writes:
> On March 30, Loboyko Steve wrote:
> > Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
> > made is less than the cost of a good electronics
> > technician, I think it started to die in the late
> > 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> > BGA chips, etc.
> 
>   Not commonly used, or not the "latest greatest thing"?  I know of
> several small outfits that do lots of wire-wrapping.  And I mean
> *lots*.

Well yes, as a matter of fact, there are still many applications
where WW is really the best way to go.  As a good example, bed-of-
nails test fixtures are typically wirewrapped.  At the last 
company where I was employed, I watched a re-work girl wire up
such a fixture (maybe 300 points or so) *BY HAND*, using a
manual wirewrap tool.

I brought in my squeeze-to-wrap wirewrap tool, and showed her how to
use it.  This pleased her quite a bit (not to mention her supervisor).

For 500 connections or more, I'd a brung in my electric wirewrap
GUN.


Jeff

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From lists at subatomix.com  Sat Mar 30 14:37:58 2002
From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <14605423573.20020330143758@subatomix.com>

On Friday, March 29, 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:

> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

Suppose it *is* that bad. What are some good nations to immigrate to?

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 14:51:03 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA62537.16607545@jetnet.ab.ca>

Loboyko Steve wrote:
> 
> Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
> made is less than the cost of a good electronics
> technician, I think it started to die in the late
> 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> BGA chips, etc.

PCB's are easy make since one still can get the DOS PCB program easytrak
for laying out a PCB. While you can get newer ones they all seem to have
DEMO mode of no more than 3" x 4". I am laying a out PCB for a FPGA CPU
/ motherboard with a  1.25 MHZ clock
using a 600 MHZ PC running a 10 year old dos program. It is hard to
belive that PC's are over 100 x faster than in the 1980's. ( The
software seems be the same speed if not a tad slower :( since the
1980's). The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 canadian for two
prototype boards. Wire wrap sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me $100
thus the PCB is a good deal. I like debuging on computer screen a bad
route than finding a bad wire on wire wrap board. Note I would be using
TTL for the CPU but they just don't make the 74LSxxx chips I wanted.
Still most of the chips on the PCB are for the front panel as only real
computers have them ** ducks **.

From mythtech at mac.com  Sat Mar 30 14:52:26 2002
From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
Message-ID: 

>Oops I forgot to mention that the ethernet transceiver is also likely
>broken.
>
>You can't get those for $5 too can you? :)

No, you might have to actually go as high as $10 for one of those.

-chris




From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 15:04:30 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <15526.10334.964810.639714@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:
> Well yes, as a matter of fact, there are still many applications
> where WW is really the best way to go.  As a good example, bed-of-
> nails test fixtures are typically wirewrapped.  At the last 
> company where I was employed, I watched a re-work girl wire up
> such a fixture (maybe 300 points or so) *BY HAND*, using a
> manual wirewrap tool.

  A "re-work girl"  Oh MAN where can I find one of those!!

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From bdwheele at indiana.edu  Sat Mar 30 15:05:18 2002
From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx>

On Sat, 2002-03-30 at 15:28, jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:06:04 -0500 Dave McGuire 
> writes:
> > On March 30, Loboyko Steve wrote:
> > > Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB
> > > made is less than the cost of a good electronics
> > > technician, I think it started to die in the late
> > > 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> > > BGA chips, etc.
> > 
> >   Not commonly used, or not the "latest greatest thing"?  I know of
> > several small outfits that do lots of wire-wrapping.  And I mean
> > *lots*.
> 
> Well yes, as a matter of fact, there are still many applications
> where WW is really the best way to go.  As a good example, bed-of-
> nails test fixtures are typically wirewrapped.  At the last 
> company where I was employed, I watched a re-work girl wire up
> such a fixture (maybe 300 points or so) *BY HAND*, using a
> manual wirewrap tool.
> 
> I brought in my squeeze-to-wrap wirewrap tool, and showed her how to
> use it.  This pleased her quite a bit (not to mention her supervisor).
> 
> For 500 connections or more, I'd a brung in my electric wirewrap
> GUN.
> 
> 
> Jeff
> 


A few years ago I took a hardware class at IU and we built a PDP-8 using
PLAs, a bit of static ram, a few 74LS chips, and a ton of wire
wrapping.  There were about 600 wires in all, but luckily it was split
across the whole semester, so it wasn't too dramatic.  It was pretty
cool to see the diagnostic software work correctly on that monster.  The
final exam consisted of the lab instructor breaking the machine in 3
different ways (including rewiring, putting in known bad chips,
reprogramming the PLAs, etc) and giving us 2 hours to repair the
machine. 

I kind of miss that class.  The 2nd semester my project was an MMU for a
6809 machine running FLEX :)

Brian



> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 15:06:04 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca>

jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:
> For 500 connections or more, I'd a brung in my electric wirewrap
> GUN.
Mind you with most new chips over 144 pins, that is only a few chips.

From alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de  Sat Mar 30 15:06:40 2002
From: alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Alexander Schreiber)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
References: <016f01c1d748$e4123460$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> 
Message-ID: <20020330210640.GA6939@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:51:09PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote:
> 
> > The classic computing hobby aside, The CBDTPA is stupid on a number of
> > levels. Most electronics manufacturers are against it, for example. They
> > say it will discourage innovation and slow the development of new
> > products. Civil libertarians oppose it for potential privacy issues and
> > its likelihood of impeding the free flow of information.
> 
> And besides, it's unimplementable.  Mostly due to the fact that someone
> will ALWAYS find a way around the "protection".



And under this braindead law, the aforementioned someone has just 
earned himself up to 5 years in jail. Really clever idea - just put
all those pesky hardware/software hackers in jail. This also nicely kill
the opensource scene which is just threatening the profits of companies
producing and selling commercial quality *cough* *cough* software.

And when everybody had his computer forcibly exchanged for a click-and-drool
webtv appliance, the vendor can activate the suicide timer which renders
the box inoperable after one or two years, forcing the customer to get a
recycled^Wnew one - for plenty of cash of course - in regular intervals.
Solves the problem of those pesky non-cooperating users who insist on not
buying the newest crap as soon as it hits the shelves.

Of course, after a few years, the hot top of the line computer
development will happen in China and not the US, but hey - the
politicians who supported this law will then no longer be in the 
office, so why should they care?

Unfortunately, this kind of short-sighted "lets secure our profits now
and let others deal with the fall out" idiocy seems to be rather
widespread :-(



Regards,
      Alex.
-- 
We're gonna be body guards for teen rock-stars. Wouldn't the cause of freedom
be better served if we killed them instead?
                        -- Schlock from the ''Schlock Mercenary'' comic strip

From tothwolf at concentric.net  Sat Mar 30 15:07:09 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote:

> Well, no, it isn't. Because the cost of getting a PCB made is less
> than the cost of a good electronics technician, I think it started to
> die in the late 80's. And, of course, its practically impossible to WW
> BGA chips, etc.

Adapters are available for surface mount chips (even BGA) so they can be
socketed and/or wire wrapped, but they are quite expensive.

> I get stuff from: Jameco More expensive than they used to be. Still
> the best (non-mindbogglingly expensive Augat)sockets, but have gone up
> in price a lot.

Check Mouser Electronics [http://www.mouser.com/], their prices average
around 20% lower than Digi-Key, and I've had very good experiences with
ordering from them. Due to where I'm located, UPS ground shipping gets the
parts here the next day too ;)

> Incredibly, I still use a hand WW tool from Radio Shack. It's cheap,
> it works!

I think they still sell that one too.

A genuine Ok Industries wrap/unwrap tool (standard or modified type) has
become somewhat expensive. Last time I checked, these were going for
$25-30, but I remember them being priced in the $15-20 range. I personally
prefer the modified wrap type tool when making wire wrap prototypes, since
the connections will hold up to more abuse.

What would the parts count for this system be like if it were built with
individual TTL chips instead of the PAL/GAL type chips?

-Toth


From rmenti at execpc.com  Sat Mar 30 15:08:06 2002
From: rmenti at execpc.com (Randy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: WTB: NEEDED: Tandy/Bondwell parts!
Message-ID: <000001c1d82f$038e3b40$0566fea9@vaio>

Does any one know disk info since I get a mismatch on boot. Is a 286 with
DOS and want to get stuff off the drive if I can pick the correct config
stuff.
Randy
Milwaukee, WI
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020330/d46acec8/attachment.html
From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 15:37:13 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:53 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (brian wheeler)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	<1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx>
Message-ID: <15526.12297.464651.95301@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, brian wheeler wrote:
> > For 500 connections or more, I'd a brung in my electric wirewrap
> > GUN.
> 
> A few years ago I took a hardware class at IU and we built a PDP-8 using
> PLAs, a bit of static ram, a few 74LS chips, and a ton of wire
> wrapping.  There were about 600 wires in all, but luckily it was split
> across the whole semester, so it wasn't too dramatic.  It was pretty

  In 1985-1987 I worked at Princeton University (I think I may have
mentioned this at one point) on the Navier-Stokes Supercomputer
project at the Moody Fluid Dynamics Laboratory.  I was responsible for
the Switching Board, a big board full of TTL that functioned as a big
crossbar switch between processors and memory planes.  The boards in
the NSC machine were Unibus form-factor; we used the OEM version of
the PDP11/24 chassis which came with no labels and no backplane
wiring.  The Switching Board was wall-to-wall 74LS series
chips...mostly 74LS244s...packed as closely as possible.  If memory
serves they were 14,000 wires per board or so.

  Doing that without a gun would have been...well, impossible.  It was
tedious, but I enjoyed it anyway.  What was especially enjoyable was
seeing the first test program running through vectors, outperforming a
uniprocessor Cray XMP on $2K worth of hardware in a desktop chassis. :)

       -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From chd_1 at nktelco.net  Sat Mar 30 15:39:21 2002
From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA63089.5CBC5AF8@nktelco.net>

> > Is wire-wrap still a common prototyping technique?

Another technique that I have found useful is tack soldering wire-wrap
wire to solder pads on pad per hole perfboard. The Kynar insulation is
heat resistant and does not shrink or burn. I usually install solder
tail sockets and then follow with point to point wiring. Multiple wires
per pad require some care in soldering (the wire has spring and tends to
pull away as the solder melts). Quite reliable and efficient for someone
skilled with a soldering iron.

For an example:
http://www.chd.dyndns.org/sbc/68k_back_half.jpg

The most dense area is about 3/4 inch thick.

-chuck

From torquil at rockbridge.net  Sat Mar 30 15:43:32 2002
From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000>

Ok,

    I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?


Thanks,
torquil


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 15:46:38 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) (Tony Duell)
References: <20020330183921.GB24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
	
Message-ID: <15526.12862.915534.522843@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Tony Duell wrote:
> > All that person needs to do is get a soldering iron, solder, some bits
> 
> Do uorself a favour and buy a good temperature-controlled soldering 
> station. It will make life a lot easier and do less damage. I am used to 
> a Weller TCP iron (this is a very common one, at least in the UK). A few 
> years back I attempted to use a friend's cheap non-controller iron, and I 
> found I simply couldn't work on multi-layer PCBs with it. I went back to 
> the lab where I was emplyed at the time to borrow a Weller TCP to do the 
> repair...

  I strongly second this!  A cheap crap soldering iron (like the $7
specials that I used to by at Radio Shack when I was a kid) will
produce crap results for pretty much ANY person regardless of skill or
experience.  I used a Weller TCP like Tony's for many years; it was
wonderful in every way.  About 6-8 months ago I picked up a Metcal
iron (an SP-PW1-10), which is even a huge step above said venerable
Weller TCP...I recommend them very highly.  Try one and you'll
understand what I mean. :-)

  It really doesn't pay to use cheap soldering irons.  You'll save a few
bucks, but it'll cost you parts, boards, fingers, and the fun of
soldering!

       -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:07 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (Chuck Dickman)
References: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com>
	<3CA63089.5CBC5AF8@nktelco.net>
Message-ID: <15526.13191.44608.902208@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> Another technique that I have found useful is tack soldering wire-wrap
> wire to solder pads on pad per hole perfboard. The Kynar insulation is
> heat resistant and does not shrink or burn. I usually install solder
> tail sockets and then follow with point to point wiring. Multiple wires
> per pad require some care in soldering (the wire has spring and tends to
> pull away as the solder melts). Quite reliable and efficient for someone
> skilled with a soldering iron.

  I've used this technique for small stuff.  It works well.  I haven't
tried anything large with it mainly due to lack of opportunity, but
I'm sure I will at some point.

> For an example:
> http://www.chd.dyndns.org/sbc/68k_back_half.jpg
> 
> The most dense area is about 3/4 inch thick.

  Hey, that looks like a really cool SBC!

     -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 15:54:29 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (Torquil MacCorkle III)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	<3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca>
	<018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: <15526.13333.75177.881925@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:
>     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
> too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
> build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?

  I have a great old book by Steve Ciarcia entitled "Build Your Own Z80
Computer".  In it, he details the design and construction a very
simple, yet effective design for which most componenets are still
available.  The construction of such a computer can be lots of fun,
and anyone is sure to learn a great deal about computing in general
and digital electronics in particular.

  If you have any interest at all in doing this, I'd suggest pursuing
it with vigor.  You'll be glad you did!

         -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 16:07:05 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330194922.2278.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> <3CA63089.5CBC5AF8@nktelco.net>
Message-ID: <3CA63709.D882526E@jetnet.ab.ca>

Chuck Dickman wrote:
> 
> > > Is wire-wrap still a common prototyping technique?
> 
> Another technique that I have found useful is tack soldering wire-wrap
> wire to solder pads on pad per hole perfboard. The Kynar insulation is
> heat resistant and does not shrink or burn. I usually install solder
> tail sockets and then follow with point to point wiring. Multiple wires
> per pad require some care in soldering (the wire has spring and tends to
> pull away as the solder melts). Quite reliable and efficient for someone
> skilled with a soldering iron.

Well my soldering skills are not that fine.( The other reason I am doing
a PCB). It seems that most people today doing any kind of computer
projects ends up using a PIC or a stamp.A few brave souls use a FPGA (
like myself ) but never get past the prototype kit stage or want a
super-big FPGA with cpu,ram,rom,i/o all inside the cpu.

-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Sat Mar 30 16:16:07 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
 <1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx>
Message-ID: <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com>


brian wheeler wrote:
...
> I kind of miss that class.  The 2nd semester my project was an MMU for a
> 6809 machine running FLEX :)

Any pieces left over from that time? - Once I have my PDP-11s up and
running again, I'll want to continue my self-made 6809, and maybe some
day I'll want to replace the CPU board (currently a 68A09, slightly
overclocked) by an "E" version and a 6829 MMU, but then I'll need
software. Currently, I have a self-made 4k monitor, macro assembler,
Basic, FORTH, all ported to run directly on the monitor. It has been
years since I last fed power into it, but I hope it will still work.

A real disk operating system (like FLEX or OS/9) would be great...

Andreas

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 16:20:11 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca> <018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: <3CA63A1B.62C54ED3@jetnet.ab.ca>

Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:
> 
> Ok,
> 
>     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
> too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
> build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?
> 
> Thanks,
> torquil

Try checking out the OTHER pdp-8 homebrew.
http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/   I like it better myself as it
looks to impliment a PDP-8 better than a 6120 chip , with Real PDP-8
style I/O and is easier to get parts for. With luck you may be able be
to the art work for the PCB's. Note if you want something a bit more
classic --> http://www.spies.com/~dgc/pdp4x/ A PDP-4.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From liste at artware.qc.ca  Sat Mar 30 16:31:56 2002
From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <005001c1d782$abf4ec00$a4ef9a8d@ajp166>
Message-ID: 


On 30-Mar-2002 ajp166 wrote:
> From: Charles E. Fox 
>>>
>>>They are already doing a pretty good job of screwing up the broadcast 
>>>television industry in the US, with HDTV that no one can afford, and 
>>>digital tv standards that only work in a strong signal area.
>>
>>         Regards
> 
> 
> That and the digital stuff has spurs off the bandwidth in all directions
> with it's wideband noise.  Damn near ruined parts of 6M ham bad with 
> the crud they radiate.

Have you seen this as a fact?  Slashdot had an article in the last while
(can't find it) about someone who'd put a spectrum analyser next to his
wireless card and found that next to nothing was leaking into other bands.

Or do you mean just digital gear in general, now that they are operating
in the 1-2 gig range?

-Philip

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 16:33:26 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	 <1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx> <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <3CA63D36.A8DD73FA@jetnet.ab.ca>

Andreas Freiherr wrote:
> 
> brian wheeler wrote:
> ...
> > I kind of miss that class.  The 2nd semester my project was an MMU for a
> > 6809 machine running FLEX :)
> 
> Any pieces left over from that time? - Once I have my PDP-11s up and
> running again, I'll want to continue my self-made 6809, and maybe some
> day I'll want to replace the CPU board (currently a 68A09, slightly
> overclocked) by an "E" version and a 6829 MMU, but then I'll need
> software. Currently, I have a self-made 4k monitor, macro assembler,
> Basic, FORTH, all ported to run directly on the monitor. It has been
> years since I last fed power into it, but I hope it will still work.
> 
> A real disk operating system (like FLEX or OS/9) would be great...
> 
> Andreas
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~stark/	flex clone?


-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net  Sat Mar 30 17:25:58 2002
From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
Message-ID: <012501c1d844$1813c890$a4ef9a8d@ajp166>

From: liste@artware.qc.ca 


>> That and the digital stuff has spurs off the bandwidth in all
directions
>> with it's wideband noise.  Damn near ruined parts of 6M ham bad with
>> the crud they radiate.
>
>Have you seen this as a fact?  Slashdot had an article in the last while
>(can't find it) about someone who'd put a spectrum analyser next to his
>wireless card and found that next to nothing was leaking into other
bands.


Then he wasn't looking in the right places.

Intermod at the site, many transmitters, CH2,4,5,7 at the same general
site plus various other services and a pot load of UHF sources.

Besides I know it's from there as my beam when pointed that way spots
spurs every 150kHz and 60KHz.  Many of the local 6m set have been
trying to spot the specific source right down to the specific
transmitter.
Makes weak signal stuff pretty difficult.

Allison


From jhellige at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 30 18:42:00 2002
From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
In-Reply-To: <3CA63D36.A8DD73FA@jetnet.ab.ca>
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>	
 <1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx> <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com>
 <3CA63D36.A8DD73FA@jetnet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: 

>  > A real disk operating system (like FLEX or OS/9) would be great...
>>
>>  Andreas
>http://www.users.cloud9.net/~stark/	flex clone?

	It claims to be fully compatible with FLEX, including running 
FLEX programs on a CoCo unmodified while retaining the CoCo's disk 
format.   Some of the source, including a disassembler (6800, 6802, 
68HC11) and the SK*DOS for SWTPC (with DC-4 floppy controller), is 
online as well.  Interesting.

	Jeff
-- 
                           Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
                                         http://www.cchaven.com
                     http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757


From tlindner at ix.netcom.com  Sat Mar 30 18:57:00 2002
From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
In-Reply-To: <018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>

> Ok,
> 
>     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
> too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
> build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?

A few months ago I was going thru RTSI's OS-9 software archive and came
upon a file describing a single board 6809 computer.

I told the maintainer that such a files doesn't really fit within the
his archive. He agreed and removed the file.

I found a copy on an unofficial mirror of RTSI:

ftp://mirror.cocounravelled.com/OS9/OS9_6X09/PROG/Free6809.lzh

For thoes of you unable to decode an LZH file I will also post a zip
file here:

http://home.netcom.com/~tlindner/Download/Free6809.zip

I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF.

-- 
tim lindner                    tlindner@ix.netcom.com

"Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android

From kentborg at borg.org  Sat Mar 30 19:00:38 2002
From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1d801$ae742a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 08:43:47AM -0700
References:  <001f01c1d801$ae742a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>
Message-ID: <20020330200038.A4968@borg>

On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 08:43:47AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> If enough folks simply block all emails from the Yahoo.com domain, a lot of
> SPAM will go away.  It's the same for mindspring, Hotmail, MSN, AOL, etc.  

I get a fair amount of spam, and I can't remember the last time I got
any that was actually sent to my machine from Yahoo, Hotmail, MSN, or
AOL.  Sure, I get *LOTS* of spam that claims to come from one of them,
but most of the time these days it actually came from a middle school
in Korea.  (Whoever put Korea schools in the internet left open relays
at every one.)

The key is reading e-mail headers.  For example, here are the complete
headers from a recent spam I received:

  From adultdvdr3324m53@yahoo.com Wed Mar 06 09:27:00 2002
  Return-Path: 
  Delivered-To: kentborg@borg.org
  Received: (qmail 6080 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 09:26:57 -0000
  Received: from unknown (HELO yahoo.com) (211.114.161.1)
    by borg.org with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 09:26:57 -0000
  Reply-To: 
  Message-ID: <001c47c48bdc$6178b2d1$2eb87db3@thdlsp>
  From: 
  To: adultdvd@yahoo.com
  Subject: Discount Erotic DVD's, TOYS & VHS --- Over 7,000 ITEMS!!!
  MiME-Version: 1.0
  Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
  X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
  X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
  X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
  Importance: Normal
  Status: RO
  Content-Length: 1275
  Lines: 23

It is the "Received:" lines that are most interesting.  In this case I
look at the one that says "HELO yahoo.com".  The yahoo.com part is
what the sending machine was programmed to say, and it could be lying.
But the 211.114.161.1 was the IP address that actually made a
connection to borg.org.  Let's look at where 211.114.161.1 lives, on
my Linux machine:

  $ whois -h whois.arin.net 211.114.161.1

And a lot of stuff spits back, most notably that this is an
Asia-Pacific address.  So:

  $ whois -h whois.apnic.net 211.114.161.1

And more stuff spits out, notably that block 211.114.161.0 -
211.114.161.63 is held by KOORONG ELEMETARY SCHOOL, 144 KUCHONRI
YONGSANMYUN YOUNGDONGKUN, CHUNGBUK, 370-910, KR.  

Nothing to do with Yahoo.

Looking at the body of the e-mail and it promotes the IP address
209.203.170.146, which, doing a similar backtrace, is held by
giantweb.com.  Again, nothing to do with Yahoo.

So I blocked the Korean school that doesn't know what it is doing and
I sent a complaint to abuse@giantweb.com that their customer is
possibly responsible for the spam.  Then I grumble and move on.

But Yahoo had nothing to do with it.


-kb

From torquil at rockbridge.net  Sat Mar 30 19:23:34 2002
From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com><3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca><018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000> <15526.13333.75177.881925@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <022e01c1d852$b2d2ec90$0200a8c0@tm2000>

Hey Dave,


    I am VERY interested in doing something like this. I had been looking at
building a PIC web server but that wouldnt be as fun as a whole computer. I
was wondering if this book is available online, ebay doesnt seem to have it?

thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McGuire" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: "New" PDP-8


> On March 30, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:
> >     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a
bit
> > too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one
could
> > build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?
>
>   I have a great old book by Steve Ciarcia entitled "Build Your Own Z80
> Computer".  In it, he details the design and construction a very
> simple, yet effective design for which most componenets are still
> available.  The construction of such a computer can be lots of fun,
> and anyone is sure to learn a great deal about computing in general
> and digital electronics in particular.
>
>   If you have any interest at all in doing this, I'd suggest pursuing
> it with vigor.  You'll be glad you did!
>
>          -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
>


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sat Mar 30 19:32:23 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: "New" PDP-8
In-Reply-To: Re: "New" PDP-8 (Torquil MacCorkle III)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	<3CA628BC.D5E91FB5@jetnet.ab.ca>
	<018001c1d833$f937cd00$0200a8c0@tm2000>
	<15526.13333.75177.881925@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<022e01c1d852$b2d2ec90$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: <15526.26407.385628.692781@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 30, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:
>     I am VERY interested in doing something like this. I had been looking at
> building a PIC web server but that wouldnt be as fun as a whole computer. I
> was wondering if this book is available online, ebay doesnt seem to have it?

  That book is pretty old...you might try http://www.bookfinder.com.
I don't think it's available online.

        -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From red at bears.org  Sat Mar 30 19:45:16 2002
From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: PowerMac 7100/66av
In-Reply-To: <011801c1d820$74375160$0200a8c0@tm2000>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote:

> Oops I forgot to mention that the ethernet transceiver is also likely
> broken.

If the ethernet transciever is likely broken, how did you plan to make VNC
or SSH work?

ok
r.


From tothwolf at concentric.net  Sat Mar 30 20:51:55 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> 
> > The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end
> > of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on
> > the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The
> > Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> > Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at
> > the very heart of this community, the software that
> > keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or
> > someone incorporates anti-pirating measures.
> <...>
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> 
> Ah hell.  This is a dead fish.  It stinks really bad but it'll eventually
> just go away.  I wouldn't worry about it.

Well, they did manage to pass the DMCA, so I think this thing should still
be watched closely.

-Toth


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sat Mar 30 21:01:58 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3CA67C26.7DB4E406@jetnet.ab.ca>

tim lindner wrote:

> I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF.

Nice but I would want a OS/9 system instead.
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From bdwheele at indiana.edu  Sat Mar 30 21:02:39 2002
From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
In-Reply-To: <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com>
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
	<1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx>  <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <1017543759.1365.35.camel@thor.kitty.cx>

On Sat, 2002-03-30 at 17:16, Andreas Freiherr wrote:
> 
> brian wheeler wrote:
> ...
> > I kind of miss that class.  The 2nd semester my project was an MMU for a
> > 6809 machine running FLEX :)
> 
> Any pieces left over from that time? - Once I have my PDP-11s up and
> running again, I'll want to continue my self-made 6809, and maybe some
> day I'll want to replace the CPU board (currently a 68A09, slightly
> overclocked) by an "E" version and a 6829 MMU, but then I'll need
> software. Currently, I have a self-made 4k monitor, macro assembler,
> Basic, FORTH, all ported to run directly on the monitor. It has been
> years since I last fed power into it, but I hope it will still work.
> 
> A real disk operating system (like FLEX or OS/9) would be great...
> 
> Andreas


Sorry, most of the parts have disappeared with time (other than the 6809
SBC that's been in progress for years and years :)

FLEX, I believe, is running loose on the net.  I've seen SK*DOS for 6809
is also available


Brian


From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org  Sat Mar 30 21:39:05 2002
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: CBDTPA update
Message-ID: <3CA684D9.2020809@dragonsweb.org>

According to Wired, Sen. Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee, has put the kibosh on the CBDTPA for now.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51425,00.html

The article does mention that Rep. Adam Schiff (D.-California) was 
drafting similiar legislation for introduction in the House.

jbdigriz



From swtpc6800 at attbi.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com><1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx>  <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com> <1017543759.1365.35.camel@thor.kitty.cx>
Message-ID: <001301c1d866$aa137430$9865fea9@downstairs>

You can find FLEX here
http://www.flexusergroup.com/

-----------------------------------------------
Michael Holley
www.swtpc.com/mholley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "brian wheeler" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: 6809 / FLEX (was: "New" PDP-8)
> 
> FLEX, I believe, is running loose on the net.  I've seen SK*DOS for 6809
> is also available

> Brian




From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:20 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: FYI: Yahoo Mail Account info Alert. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20020330200038.A4968@borg>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Kent Borg wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 08:43:47AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > If enough folks simply block all emails from the Yahoo.com domain, a lot of
> > SPAM will go away.  It's the same for mindspring, Hotmail, MSN, AOL, etc.
>
> I get a fair amount of spam, and I can't remember the last time I got
> any that was actually sent to my machine from Yahoo, Hotmail, MSN, or
> AOL.  Sure, I get *LOTS* of spam that claims to come from one of them,
> but most of the time these days it actually came from a middle school
> in Korea.  (Whoever put Korea schools in the internet left open relays
> at every one.)

  True, to a certain extent.  But I do get quite a lot of spam with
either the Reply To: address or a reply addy embedded in the body that
IS a Yahoo account.  Or Hotmail, or recently mostly MSN

  I've long since quit looking at where the crap came from, and started
targetting where they want me to *answer*.  Their whole point is to sell
you something, so they have to give you a real point of contact.  That's
where the real trail starts.

	Doc


From rdd at rddavis.org  Sat Mar 30 22:24:30 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: FLEX OS and PERQs (was: 6809 / FLEX...)
In-Reply-To: <1017543759.1365.35.camel@thor.kitty.cx>
References: <20020330.142821.-288451.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <1017522318.1364.6.camel@thor.kitty.cx> <3CA63927.AF96F144@Vishay.com> <1017543759.1365.35.camel@thor.kitty.cx>
Message-ID: <20020331042430.GA24517@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe brian wheeler, from writings of Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 10:02:39PM -0500:
> FLEX, I believe, is running loose on the net.  I've seen SK*DOS for 6809
> is also available

Interesting... I wonder if the version of this for PERQs (e.g. PERQ-1,
PERQ-T2, etc. type PERQs, not the PERQ-3A or 3B systems) is on the
'net.  A little over a decade ago, when gathering info. about PERQ
workstations, someone mentioned FLEX.  However, finding a copy of it
seemed to be impossible even back then.  Does anyone on this list know
anything about FLEX running on PERQs?

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From fernande at internet1.net  Sat Mar 30 23:06:22 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: IBM PS/2 Part wanted for 9577
Message-ID: <3CA6994E.5030807@internet1.net>

If I recall correctly, IBM had a special stand for the PS/2 Model 77 so 
that it would sit on it's side.  Does anybody have one they want to get 
rid of?  I have one for a generic PC but it doesn't quite fit the PS/2 
correctly.

I've almost got my new 9577 reassembled...... been cleaning it :-)

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA


From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 30 23:53:02 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
Message-ID: <20020331055433.PVLO24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: Tony Duell 

> The first part is a false conclusion. It's safe to say that L2 is needed 
> for a single-chip _2K_ machine (using a 6116 or similar), which is what 
> we've been saying all along. For a single-chip 1K machine (using a 
> 4118), you use L1. You've not seen one of those boards, so you've not 
> seen a machine with L1 fitted.

Granted.  How about:

No jumper needed for dual 2114s
L2 needed for 2K boards
L1 needed for single-chip 1K boards

Okay?

Glen
0/0


From marvin at rain.org  Sat Mar 30 23:55:54 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Sierra Semiconductor Internal Modem
References: <3CA6994E.5030807@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EA.3C330239@rain.org>


I got an interesting box of Sierra Semiconductor 2400 boards, etc. today
at the TRW swap meet. From what I can find using Google, Sierra only
made chipsets. But this set of stuff includes unstuffed boards with
"Sierra Semiconductor Corporation", "2400 Internal Modem", TTI Copyright
1987" on them. There are several packages of chips, crystals, etc. along
with relays and transformers that appear to be most of the parts for
stuffing these things. I'll just add this stuff to my collection of
modems, but I thought this stuff was rather interesting!

From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 00:07:12 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: CBDTPA update
References: <3CA684D9.2020809@dragonsweb.org>
Message-ID: <016801c1d87a$4cc0d480$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> The article does mention that Rep. Adam Schiff (D.-California) was
> drafting similiar legislation for introduction in the House.
>
For those not in the L.A. area, Schiff's district covers Burbank and a number of movie and TV Studios (Warner, Universal, Disney,
ABC, NBC).


From Innfogra at aol.com  Sun Mar 31 03:00:06 2002
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: What showed up at TRW?
Message-ID: <180.5f9a36a.29d82a16@aol.com>

What showed up at the swap meet? Anyone see anything interesting?

Paxton
Astoria, Oregon
USA

From philpem at btinternet.com  Sun Mar 31 03:09:56 2002
From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
References: <200203310558.g2V5wI225386@ns2.ezwind.net>
Message-ID: <002501c1d893$d4457b40$0100005a@phoenix>

Jeffrey Sharp  said:
> On Friday, March 29, 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> Suppose it *is* that bad. What are some good nations to immigrate to?
Well, I can imagine how the USA is going to end up...
- No more Linux coders from the USA - that would be a pretty big problem
given that a great deal of stuff for Linux was coded by Americans.
- No more home movies - Your Uncle Fred can't just send you his video of the
kids playing football - your VCR would refuse to play it
- No more DVDROM drives for computers (or CDROMs, or floppy drives, or RAM,
hard drives, etc) - could conceivably be used for infringement.
- Computer hoarders - people who bought loads of pre-SSSCA
Dell/Compaq/Toshiba/noname PCs and then started keeping them to themselves.
- Massive fines for nearly any computer programmer

Need I go on?

I think I'm going to stay in the UK for the time being. Otherwise, I'm
probably going to move to an island off the coast of India... Catch is my PC
would probably hate me for it...

Later.
--
Phil.
philpem@bigfoot.com
http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/


From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com  Sun Mar 31 07:36:57 2002
From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: <002501c1d893$d4457b40$0100005a@phoenix>
Message-ID: 

Well, it looks like it might not go through quite so quickly.  If it does,
I think I might get into the hoarding business and then 'illegally sell
unprotected equipment' after I move to Canada or something.

Anyhow, check out this on Wired:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51425,00.html

If you're gonna try to create opposition to this, try to get your
non-technical friends involved.  Watch what they say when you say 'after
this bill goes into effect, selling ANYTHING electronic you currently own
will be illegal.'   I'm sure that'll turn the heads of just about anyone.

I'm just dreading the copy-proof kitchen. :)

-- Pat


On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote:

> Jeffrey Sharp  said:
> > On Friday, March 29, 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> > > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
> > Suppose it *is* that bad. What are some good nations to immigrate to?
> Well, I can imagine how the USA is going to end up...
> - No more Linux coders from the USA - that would be a pretty big problem
> given that a great deal of stuff for Linux was coded by Americans.
> - No more home movies - Your Uncle Fred can't just send you his video of the
> kids playing football - your VCR would refuse to play it
> - No more DVDROM drives for computers (or CDROMs, or floppy drives, or RAM,
> hard drives, etc) - could conceivably be used for infringement.
> - Computer hoarders - people who bought loads of pre-SSSCA
> Dell/Compaq/Toshiba/noname PCs and then started keeping them to themselves.
> - Massive fines for nearly any computer programmer
>
> Need I go on?
>
> I think I'm going to stay in the UK for the time being. Otherwise, I'm
> probably going to move to an island off the coast of India... Catch is my PC
> would probably hate me for it...
>
> Later.
> --
> Phil.
> philpem@bigfoot.com
> http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/
>


From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 08:13:08 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
References: <20020330063547.ZTV18787.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <20020330183921.GB24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <3CA71974.4149D65F@gifford.co.uk>



"R. D. Davis" wrote:
> ... First practice with some wire; create a
> few Western Union joints and get the knack creating a good solder
> joint.

Now that's something I've never heard of -- what's a "Western
Union" joint?  Some kind of wire splice?

> Learning to solder properly is not difficult.  I was given a soldering
> iron and Radio Shack P-Box kits to build as a young child, when I was
> in elementary school.

I must have had my first soldering iron at the age of 11 or
thereabouts.  But my first kits were Philips non-soldering
breadboards.

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk



From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 08:18:00 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk>


tim lindner wrote:
> >     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
> > too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
> > build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?

I keep thinking about putting together a 6809-based machine, just
for the fun of it.

> http://home.netcom.com/~tlindner/Download/Free6809.zip
> 
> I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF.

Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd
prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display.  I'd
also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could
be independent of a terminal.  Maybe even a disk interface
of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel
port, and...  Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated!

What do other people think about a small-scale 6809 board?

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk


From allain at panix.com  Sun Mar 31 10:04:09 2002
From: allain at panix.com (John Allain)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: CBDTPA update
References: <3CA684D9.2020809@dragonsweb.org> <016801c1d87a$4cc0d480$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d8cd$b16eabc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06>

Has anybody seen the CBDTPA in a text form?
I found two copies so far but they were in an image only pdf
form, 20 pages, double spaced, yuk!

John A.



From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sun Mar 31 11:07:11 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: TRS-80 Model 100
In-Reply-To: <001301c1d866$aa137430$9865fea9@downstairs>
Message-ID: 

Wasn't someone on the list looking for one of these a few days ago?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013678939

--John

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 11:28:03 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: ZX81 and 6116
In-Reply-To: <20020331055433.PVLO24294.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Mar 31, 2 00:53:02 am
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 746 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/11a22c07/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 11:30:18 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: FLEX OS and PERQs (was: 6809 / FLEX...)
In-Reply-To: <20020331042430.GA24517@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 30, 2 11:24:30 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 670 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/19962af2/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 11:36:15 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Sierra Semiconductor Internal Modem
In-Reply-To: <3CA6A4EA.3C330239@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Mar 30, 2 09:55:54 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1545 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/64450ed6/attachment.ksh
From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 31 11:36:45 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote:

> Well, it looks like it might not go through quite so quickly.  If it does,
> I think I might get into the hoarding business and then 'illegally sell
> unprotected equipment' after I move to Canada or something.
>
> Anyhow, check out this on Wired:
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51425,00.html

  Don't miss the tiny-but-oh-so-significant mention, toward the bottom
of the page, of the FBI's fight to exempt the Carnivore from Freedom Of
Information requests.  They're losing....

	Doc


From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sun Mar 31 11:44:15 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA74AEF.5530D3E1@jetnet.ab.ca>

John Honniball wrote:
> 
> tim lindner wrote:
> > >     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a bit
> > > too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one could
> > > build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?
> 
> I keep thinking about putting together a 6809-based machine, just
> for the fun of it.
> 
> > http://home.netcom.com/~tlindner/Download/Free6809.zip
> >
> > I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF.
> 
> Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd
> prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display.  I'd
> also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could
> be independent of a terminal.  Maybe even a disk interface
> of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel
> port, and...  Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated!
> 
> What do other people think about a small-scale 6809 board?

Any useful CPU board needs a DISK of some sort. 64kb is cheap now days.
Eprom/flash based field programble logic could handle a IDE drive and
OS/9 level 2 bank switching.


-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 12:01:23 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
In-Reply-To: <3CA71974.4149D65F@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Mar 31, 2 03:13:08 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 3554 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/4d7c4e54/attachment.ksh
From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to  Sun Mar 31 12:06:51 2002
From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Problems with Ersatz-11 and CDROM
Message-ID: <3CA7503B.8F73BA94@compsys.to>

I realize that there are probably very few individuals interested
in this topic, however here goes.

I am running E11 (Ersatz-11) under Windows 98 so that I can
run RT-11.  It works great in almost all respects and I can even
live with this one minor problem.  However, perhaps someone
might be able to suggest what needs to be fixed.

I have just acquired a CD-RW and been successful is making copies
of my files to a CD-R and over the past week a few test files to a
CD-Erasable.  I am using "Nero Burning" as the software which
"writes" to the CD and while I am a bit disappointed that the write
speed to the erasables is only 2x as opposed to 16x for the WORM
media, I can easily live with that and it is not a problem.  I have also

discovered how to "DUMP" to the screen any of the 2048 byte blocks
on the CD - in hex of course.  And finally, I discovered how to copy
a single file to the CD starting at block zero of the CD media - or at
least I have done so with the erasable media and I hope it can be
done with the WORM media as well.  The only thing I have not found
out as yet is how to copy all of the sectors written to a CD back to
a file on the hard drive so that more than one copy can be made to
more blank CDs.  I doubt if that will be a problem - I just have not
even bothered as yet to try.

When I copy a single file to the CD using Nero and the "File" menu
o File
  o Burn Image
     o Open
        o Foreign Image Settings - Block Mode 1
                                           -  Block Size (2048 Bytes)
                                           -  Image Header (0 Bytes)
                                           -  Image Trailer (0 Bytes)
           o OK
             o Ignore - during this test, the Image file is not a
multiple of 2048 bytes
                o Write
where each "o" indicates another menu sub-level.
Nero does correctly write the file to the CD as far as I can tell -
except perhaps
for the last few blocks since the size of the image file was not a
multiple of
2048 bytes.  Using C:foobar.DSK as the Image File I wrote to the CD,
then
using Nero and "Recorder"/"View Track", I can look at each 2048 byte
block
the CD to verify that the Image File Foobar.DSK was written to the CD
and
under E11 I can give the commands:
MOUNT  DU0:  CDROME:/RO
MOUNT  DU1:  C:foobar.DSK/RO
Then under RT-11, I can also give the commands
DIFFERENCES/BINARY/DEVICE  DU0:  DU1:/START:64./END:last-block-3
which results in a perfect compare.  Under RT-11, I can also do a
DUMP/TERM  DU1:/ONLY:any block including block numbers between zero and
63.
DUMP/TERM  DU0:/ONLY:only block numbers 64. or greater.

NOW!!  Here is my problem and the question.  Why can't E11 read blocks
zero to 63.
on the CD?  I can see them under Nero and DUMP these blocks to the
monitor under
Nero.

I could easily modify the MSCP device driver for RT-11 and automatically
add 64. to
every block number before I try to read it from the CD, but that would
really mean
a new device driver (CDX.SYS seems like a good name).  I would also need
to
decide if that should be just for partition zero (my preference) or all
the 20 or even
21 partitions on the CD.  Or perhaps, someone has already discovered the
answer
why Nero can read those blocks under Windows 98, but E11 can't.

By the way, one other solution is to just not use partition zero under
RT-11 under
E11 under W95/W98.  Before I could burn my own CDs, that was the way
that
Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD in any case.  However, now that
I
have been able to actually read blocks zero through 63. from the CD
under Nero,
it seems too soon to give up on E11.

I suspect that a partial answer may be that Nero uses W95/W98 operating
system
calls that are not used by E11 which is essentially a DOS program.  If
true, that
obstacle might be overcome if the modification to E11 is simple enough.

PLEASE!!!  Can anyone suggest what the difficulty might be?

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.




From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 31 12:08:55 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Sierra Semiconductor Internal Modem
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA750B7.4F65C70@rain.org>


Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> > I got an interesting box of Sierra Semiconductor 2400 boards, etc. today
> > at the TRW swap meet. From what I can find using Google, Sierra only
> > made chipsets. But this set of stuff includes unstuffed boards with
> > "Sierra Semiconductor Corporation", "2400 Internal Modem", TTI Copyright
> 
> It sounds like you may have found some modem evaluation kits. Did you
> get any documentation with them (like PCB layouts or schematics)? If not,
> 
> > stuffing these things. I'll just add this stuff to my collection of
> > modems, but I thought this stuff was rather interesting!
> 
> You mean you're not going to assemble one of the boards just for fun :-(

I have far too many projects going, so unfortunately, it just isn't fun
anymore. That is one of the reasons I am starting to sell/give/toss off
some of the extra stuff. But I think an evaluation board is something of
historical interest and worthwhile preserving. I'll most probably try
and get the schematics & parts list to see if I have any complete
unbuild boards & major parts. At that point, I'll keep one and make the
others available to anyone who would like one of these things. It may
take a year or so though!

From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sun Mar 31 12:40:50 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Picture of a Western Union splice.

http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/curr_content/paasurvey/elec/Lesson5/Lesson5.html



From edick at idcomm.com  Sun Mar 31 13:06:48 2002
From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001d01c1d8e7$35909f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>

see below, plz.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Honniball" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)


>
> tim lindner wrote:
> > >     I am interested in building a computer like this, but this seems a
bit
> > > too much for me to tackle. Are there any other Classiccomputers one
could
> > > build which are far simpler and don't involve 600 wires and stuff?
>
> I keep thinking about putting together a 6809-based machine, just
> for the fun of it.
>
> > http://home.netcom.com/~tlindner/Download/Free6809.zip
> >
> > I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF.
>
> Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd
> prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display.  I'd
> also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could
> be independent of a terminal.  Maybe even a disk interface
> of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel
> port, and...  Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated!
>
> What do other people think about a small-scale 6809 board?
>
What amazes me is that I frequently run into oxymorons such as this one.
People want a "simple" system, yet they want a fancy video interface and
sound.  Now, I'm convinced that at least 75% of the problems I've encountered
(not on my own systems, since I always omit/remove/disable it) on PC's relate
to sound.  Sound consume huge amounts of bandwidth and, moreover system
resources.

The thing that made our computers of yesteryear simple and manageably small
was the fact that the console functions were provided by a terminal.  If you
want to build that functionality, into your "simple" circuit, keep in mind
that the board in a typical terminal was larger than the one on which the
computer lived.  Further, keep in mind that the video that simple computers
e.g. the Commodore types, (not because they're poor, though they are, or
simple, because they're not) were considerably less capable than many
terminals, and certainly much less capable than what one is accustomed to
seeing even in a cheap PC.

I built a VERY capable system last week.  One with 128KB+ of memory and
considerable I/O.  It does, of course, rely on a serial terminal, but it is
supported by a wide range of FREE compilers, assemblers, interpreters, etc.
The wire count was on the order of 200, and the entire design, wiring,
checkout, and software installation took under three hours.  Of course, the
software's simple, since there's no mass-storage, and no file-system.  Mass
storage is provided by the host system to which it's tethered by means of a
serial link.  This system runs VERY fast, and is capable of even more speed,
but, since it's small, that wouldn't interest game-freaks.

Another thing.  600 wires is NOT a big, complicated circuit.  600 IC's might
be, but 600 wires is a 2-hour wiring/checkout job.  Once I get set up, even
with my failing eyesight and aging memory, I still wire and continuity-check
(for both missing and undesired connections) a 600-wire circuit in less than
two hours.

If you want a small and simple circuit, supported with a decent OS and a wide
range of software, whip up a modern version of one of the classic CP/M
systems.  Use SRAM, extracted from an old '486 motherboard's cache, a 20 MHz
Z80, (still avaiable at DigiKey) and substitute standard I/O peripherals for
the overpriced, underpowered devices in the Z80 family.  Use an 82C55 in place
of a PIO, and an SCC2681 in place of a DART.  Use a CPLD in place of the
multi-IC video circuit, or, if you're scared of PLD's, use a 6845-based
approach for the video display.

You'll have a lot more trouble getting a decent keyboard and NTSC-compabible
monitor than you will in building up a high-speed copy of, say, a Xerox 820 or
a Ferguson BigBoard-II, particularly if you leave out the stuff you don't
need.  So long as you leave the mass-storage interface alone, you'll have
little trouble generating a working system.

Now, if you want a 6809-based system, you CAN build an even simpler one, but
unless you like the garbage-quality video of the 6847 or similar chips, you're
still going to be better off with a terminal.  You can easily hit the 200-wire
mark with a 6809-based system.  What you'd do with it is another issue, of
course.
> --



From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 31 13:39:55 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: What showed up at TRW?
References: <180.5f9a36a.29d82a16@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7660B.2B01A2FF@rain.org>


I was more interested in getting rid of stuff, so that left the browsing
for others :). I did see several CC listmembers down there though. Maybe
they found some good stuff.


Innfogra@aol.com wrote:
> 
> What showed up at the swap meet? Anyone see anything interesting?
> 
> Paxton
> Astoria, Oregon
> USA

From rdd at rddavis.org  Sun Mar 31 14:58:59 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3CA71974.4149D65F@gifford.co.uk> 
Message-ID: <20020331205858.GA25538@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sun, Mar 31, 2002 at 07:01:23PM +0100:
> > "R. D. Davis" wrote:
> > > ... First practice with some wire; create a
> > > few Western Union joints and get the knack creating a good solder
> > > joint.

[Western Union joint]
> IIRC, it's a way of joining multi-strand cables. I would have to look up 
> the details, but one of my books on telegraphy should include it.

It's a way of joining multi-strand, or single-strand, wires so that they
don't come apart easily.  You've no doubt seen these, or made them, but
perhaps they're also known by a different name.  

> The horrible modern ones with the PCB that you fixed little component 
> headers to with 6BA nuts? Or the older ones with loose components and 
> spring terminals that you pushed into a piece of pegboard? 

Did Philips also make kits similar to the P-box kits with the plastic
pegboard and spring terminals?  I remember building a metronome kit,
AM radio, sound operated switch, "heads or tails" decision maker (this
consisted of two neon bulbs with red and green lenses that fired
alternately, although it appeared that they were both lit at the same
time.  IIRC, pressing a momentary SPST switch stopped an oscillator
and then only one of the bulbs remained lit), etc.  One might say this
was a type of computer, so, this appears to be on-topic. :-)

> With those 3 toegether you could make a simple MW AM radio, etc.
> 
> I then added a few more parts bought as 'spares', including the larger 
> chassis, to bring that up to the 
> 
> EE1003. This had a few more parts, but basically gave you the same 
> circuits as the above 3 kits together

Those Philips kits sound interesting!  Nice!  

> Then I got (cheap, when they were discontinued)

Speaking of circuitry, I've got junk box that I haven't looked in for
quite a while, containing various older components, transformers,
etc. and it appears that mice have gotten into it.  Some of this
consists of difficult to find/replace bits, so, needless to say, I
don't want to just toss it out; however, the thought of having to
clean all of this up is not pleasant.  I'm going to start by spraying
it all with some Lysol; not sure if that will harm anything such as
some plastic parts, however, it all needs to be disinfected.  Don't
suggest using a dishwasher, as I don't have one of those newfangled
gizmos. :-) Any suggestions?  Using water is out of the question.
	
> EE1004 AF add-on kit. A matched pair of AC132s, audio transformers, etc. 
> One of the fun projects you could make with EE1003 + EE1004 was an audio
> sig-gen useing the Wein bridge circuit with a light bulb to stabilise the
> gain.  The same idea as HP's first product (just to bring this back
> towards on-topic status). 

Very interesting!    

> EE1005 RF add-on kit. Another BF194, IF transformers, dual gang variable 
> capacitor, etc. You could make superhet radios, etc with this kit.

This discussion is making me regret leaning more towards computers
and programming and away from other aspects of my electronics hobby
such as radios and audio - thinking back, that was actually more fun,
and perhaps less expensive.  Has anyone else on the list begun to
feel this way?   

Does anyone remember the LaFayette kits?  I only recall building one,
an amplifier using an odd-looking semi-DIP IC - IIRC, a 14-pin IC
where pins 3,4 & 5 were a single wide metal tab and pins 10, 11 and 12
were also a single wide metal tab - not individual pins.  

> To make this more on-topic, there was a series of computer/logic 
> educational kits. They were based round a 'logic module' that was 
> basically an aribtrary 3-input gate (it used the well-known 4 input mux + 
> inverter circuit with a patchboard to configure it). I managed to obtain 
> the smallest kit (CL1650) which contained 2 modules, the battery/input 
> switch module and not much else. Fortunately there was one manual for all 
> the kits in the range, and it was possible to use normal TTL chips on a 
> plugblock breadboard to replace the modules I didn't have....

It sounds as though Philips had a much wider range of kits than Radio
Shack.

> Last year I found the Philips ME1200 kit in a charity shop (thrift 
> store). I grabbed it -- I'd been looking for an ME kit ('Mechanical 
> Engineer') for some time. It includes a number of plastic disks which 
> can be fitted with pins to make gears, switches, etc, a small motor, 
> metal rods, and so on. You can make a couple of simple clocks with it 
> :-)). One nice feature of the ME kits (which is why I wanted one) was 
> that you couls use the EE and ME kits together and make things like a 
> vehicle that stopped when it went into a dark area (LDR and a couple of 
> transistors from the EE kit controlling the motor from the ME kit). 

Wow!  Nice find!!!  What have you built with this thus far?  That kit
sounds somewhat like the old Erector Sets that could be used to build
anything from cranes to vehicles, although I don't recall any way to
build a reasonably accurate clock with it.  Back in elementary school,
I used this to build a motorized vehicle for a science project, but
the blasted moron-brained teacher rejected it as being too "advanced"
(accused me of having help with building it, which I didn't!!!), and
then looked the other way while some other students tried to destroy
it - hence, I have little respect for most elementary school teachers.
I may still have most of the components for the set - the one that
came in what appeared to be a largish blue metal toolbox.  The only
problem was, I was always finding other uses for the components over
the years, so I don't have all of the components (in one place, that
is).  To this day, I'm still finding bits and pieces of that where
they don't belong, such as pulleys, nuts, bolts, etc. :-)

Yes, I may have used some of these bits with computers. :-)

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 15:36:25 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:54 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA78159.B6B77AD4@gifford.co.uk>


Tony Duell wrote:
> The horrible modern ones with the PCB that you fixed little component
> headers to with 6BA nuts? Or the older ones with loose components and
> spring terminals that you pushed into a piece of pegboard?

The older, spring-terminal kind.  There were transistors on little
square PCB mounts, a front panel with controls and lots of
ordinary components and wire.  The most complex circuit was a
simple AM radio -- on which I listened to Radio Caroline, the
well-known pirate station of the time.

> I grew up with the latter. I still have most of them, and I found the
> manuals the other day. I have/had
> ...

Unfortunately, I no longer have my Philips kits.

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk

From coredump at gifford.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 15:37:18 2002
From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA7818E.41DDF98E@gifford.co.uk>


John Chris Wren wrote:
> Picture of a Western Union splice.
> 
> http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/curr_content/paasurvey/elec/Lesson5/Lesson5.html

Thanks, that's made it very clear!

--
John Honniball
coredump@gifford.co.uk

From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 16:02:38 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
In-Reply-To: <20020331205858.GA25538@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 31, 2 03:58:58 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 9235 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/4f804a57/attachment.ksh
From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 16:17:03 2002
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
In-Reply-To: <3CA78159.B6B77AD4@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Mar 31, 2 10:36:25 pm
Message-ID: 

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1919 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020331/c572f87d/attachment.ksh
From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com  Sun Mar 31 16:49:21 2002
From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
 <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA79271.7E7A8E19@Vishay.com>


Wow, thanks to all for these highly interesting answers, hints and
links! - I created several bookmarks while browsing the mails and will
have to follow up during the next few weeks.

John Honniball wrote:
...
> Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd
> prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display.  I'd
> also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could
> be independent of a terminal.  Maybe even a disk interface
> of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel
> port, and...  Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated!
> 
> What do other people think about a small-scale 6809 board?

My "self-made 6809 computer" project addresses the problem of complexity
vs. functionality by composing the machine from modules. This way, you
can add another low complexity module whenever you want additional
functionality.

The core is a board housing the processor, 60k of RAM and 4k of ROM,
with 256 bytes masked out of the address space in a decoder. I developed
this idea and later heard of the I/O space used in PDP-11 architecture.
It is 4k in the PDP-11, but it is the same idea. Why shouldn't it work
for me, too? The address space is layed out in a way that should make it
easy to eventually replace this board with separate boards with CPU and
MMU on one of them, plus one or more memory modules.

A separate module has two 6850 ACIAs to provide two serial interfaces,
complete with 1488/1489 drivers/receivers and COM8116 (or something like
that) programmable baud rate generators, the board even supports
split-speed operation for applications like BTX (50 baud send, 1200 baud
receive).

To provide an easy way of configuring the hardware, I created a board
with 8*8 DIP switches. The idea is to put these switches as 8 readable
bytes at a fixed address and use them to provide initialization
parameters to the ROM based monitor program. This board also came in
handy in initial testing of the processor board: I managed to squeeze a
9 byte loop into these 64 switches that made a LED on the processor
board (address decoder output) blink when running properly.

Another board implemnents a cassette tape interface using a vanilla
analog tape recorder with a format called "Supertape" (published with
source code for numerous micros in an 80s magazine in Germany, including
the C64, Sharp PC1500, and Eltec's 6809 based Eurocom). It connects to
the MIC and EAR jacks, and it has a relay to control motor start/stop.

A video board (with capabilities slightly above a VT100) exists on paper
only, an EPROMmer on another board was partly built when time ran out.
All that stuff is still around, and I have a 19" rack mount frame that
contains the self-made power supply (with 24V ready to support 8" floppy
drives) and up to ten of my wrapped boards.

All this is based on standard components, but intentionally incompatible
to existing buses: I wanted to force myself to build everything on my
own. Once I dig down to those pieces, I may be able to provide some
pictures. Stay tuned ;-)

Andreas

From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca  Sun Mar 31 17:35:14 2002
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
	 <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> <3CA79271.7E7A8E19@Vishay.com>
Message-ID: <3CA79D32.6ACBA302@jetnet.ab.ca>

Andreas Freiherr wrote:

> My "self-made 6809 computer" project addresses the problem of complexity
> vs. functionality by composing the machine from modules. This way, you
> can add another low complexity module whenever you want additional
> functionality.
> 
> The core is a board housing the processor, 60k of RAM and 4k of ROM,
> with 256 bytes masked out of the address space in a decoder. I developed
> this idea and later heard of the I/O space used in PDP-11 architecture.
> It is 4k in the PDP-11, but it is the same idea. Why shouldn't it work
> for me, too? The address space is layed out in a way that should make it
> easy to eventually replace this board with separate boards with CPU and
> MMU on one of them, plus one or more memory modules.

 Better check to see how OS/9 level II is memory mapped. I think the
last 256 bytes
are common to all memory maps. Lets not forget the PDP-11 went from a 18
bit bus to I think a 22 bit bus. 
 
> A separate module has two 6850 ACIAs to provide two serial interfaces,
> complete with 1488/1489 drivers/receivers and COM8116 (or something like
> that) programmable baud rate generators, the board even supports
> split-speed operation for applications like BTX (50 baud send, 1200 baud
> receive).

Nice. I like the maxim chip out that uses +5 volts and generates local
+-10 volts for RS232 buffers. This chip and 2 memory chips are wired to
FPGA prototype board to give me a minimal computer system. I am slowly
working on the PCB board with a limited front panel and a choice of
bootstraps: Front panel, serial port , EEPROM. The primary bootstrap at
the moment is the serial port as I download test programs from a PC to
test my CPU design. In time I will have a floppy disk and my system will
be stand alone.

> To provide an easy way of configuring the hardware, I created a board
> with 8*8 DIP switches. The idea is to put these switches as 8 readable
> bytes at a fixed address and use them to provide initialization
> parameters to the ROM based monitor program. This board also came in
> handy in initial testing of the processor board: I managed to squeeze a
> 9 byte loop into these 64 switches that made a LED on the processor
> board (address decoder output) blink when running properly.
Neat.
> A video board (with capabilities slightly above a VT100) exists on paper
> only, an EPROMmer on another board was partly built when time ran out.
> All that stuff is still around, and I have a 19" rack mount frame that
> contains the self-made power supply (with 24V ready to support 8" floppy
> drives) and up to ten of my wrapped boards.

I would like to see that.

> All this is based on standard components, but intentionally incompatible
> to existing buses: I wanted to force myself to build everything on my
> own. Once I dig down to those pieces, I may be able to provide some
> pictures. Stay tuned ;-)

Ok ... but the picture is a bit wavy :)
-- 
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html

From chd_1 at nktelco.net  Sun Mar 31 19:12:16 2002
From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
References: 
Message-ID: <3CA7B3F0.912C8511@nktelco.net>

> It _will_ take practice. Just as a lot of other worthwhile things take
> practice..

I have taught a few co-ops and even a secretary to solder and I find
that
soldering is quite an art. Some can do it and some seem to never learn.
Practice and observation is very important. Noticing the color change
when
the solder goes from solid to liquid, or that enough solder is better
than
too much. De-soldering is even more difficult without the proper tools.

I enjoy soldering.... It is almost meditative.... but then it might just
be the flux fumes.... :-)

From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co  Sun Mar 31 19:38:27 2002
From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
  Question))
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020330183921.GB24071@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020331203827.00da9dd4@pop1.epm.net.co>

At 07:59 PM 3/30/02 +0000, you wrote:
>As was I (FWIW). Heck, I must have been soldering for about 25 years now, 
>at least...
>-tony

You seem to be a good subject for a lead poisoning risk study... :-)

carlos.


--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez   carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org


From mbg at TheWorld.com  Sun Mar 31 20:32:19 2002
From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)
References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>
    <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200204010232.VAA3750652@shell.TheWorld.com>

Years ago, I built a board (using the design from a friend)
which controlled a set of 3 AY-3-8910 chips using a DRV11-C
on a pdp-11/05.

I have since lost the actual design for the circuit, but not
the breadboarded device...

I've been meaning to examine the board to try to rederive the
circuit and get it on paper again.

					Megan

From rdd at rddavis.org  Sun Mar 31 20:53:14 2002
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA7B3F0.912C8511@nktelco.net>
References:  <3CA7B3F0.912C8511@nktelco.net>
Message-ID: <20020401025314.GC25538@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Chuck Dickman, from writings of Sun, Mar 31, 2002 at 08:12:16PM -0500:
> I enjoy soldering.... It is almost meditative.... but then it might just
> be the flux fumes.... :-)

...or the lead in the solder.  You've heard of the saying "mad as a
hatter"?  ...not that there's anything wrong with madness, a rather
good quality for a hacker to possess. :-)

-- 
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
rdd@rddavis.org  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

From jon at slurpee.org  Sun Mar 31 21:46:49 2002
From: jon at slurpee.org (Jon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Apple CHRP prototype machine...
Message-ID: 

I have one of these:

http://www.applefritter.com/macosppc/starmax/

if you're on the newsgroup and interested, make me an offer (trades may be
acceptable also)

I figure if I keep it its just going to gather dust because I dont have
time to play :)

Thanks,
jon


From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 31 21:47:01 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
References:  <3CA7B3F0.912C8511@nktelco.net> <20020401025314.GC25538@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>


"R. D. Davis" wrote:
> 
> Quothe Chuck Dickman, from writings of Sun, Mar 31, 2002 at 08:12:16PM -0500:
> > I enjoy soldering.... It is almost meditative.... but then it might just
> > be the flux fumes.... :-)
> 
> ...or the lead in the solder.  You've heard of the saying "mad as a
> hatter"?  ...not that there's anything wrong with madness, a rather
> good quality for a hacker to possess. :-)

As I understand it, "the mad hatter" got that way from mercury, not
lead.

From tothwolf at concentric.net  Sun Mar 31 22:01:19 2002
From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Sierra Semiconductor Internal Modem
In-Reply-To: <3CA750B7.4F65C70@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote:

> I have far too many projects going, so unfortunately, it just isn't
> fun anymore. That is one of the reasons I am starting to
> sell/give/toss off some of the extra stuff. But I think an evaluation
> board is something of historical interest and worthwhile preserving.
> I'll most probably try and get the schematics & parts list to see if I
> have any complete unbuild boards & major parts. At that point, I'll
> keep one and make the others available to anyone who would like one of
> these things. It may take a year or so though!

I ended up with several built prototype 2400 baud modems from a auction a
number of years ago. If you have the time to put up some detailed pictures
of your kits, I'll start looking for the box that I put them in to see if
one of them matches your kits.

The auction I bought them from was a bankruptcy auction for a small
prototype and design company. I bought up most all of the components
except for a couple cabinets of modern TTL/CMOS chips and around 10,000 or
so gold plated prototype PLCC chips. A couple of students overbid the
TTL/CMOS lots, and I think a scrapper bought up the prototype PLCC chips.
(I did end up with _all_ the sockets...) I also ended up with a few of
those PLCC prototype chips mixed in the cabinets I bought. Two of those
chips don't have their lids installed, so the die or bonding wires are
probably damaged by now. (Anyone know how to take a picture of those?) I
seem to remember a former employee bought up all the die masks for their
custom chips, I guess for nostalgia reasons. I'm *still* sorting the
components I bought, and have run out of available parts cabinets (again).

There was also a bench type micro-manipulator in that auction. It had all
the goodies including stuff to install bonding wires in chips. I think
someone bid around $8-10,000 for it.

-Toth


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sun Mar 31 22:27:08 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
also had problems.

--John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 22:47 PM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
> Question))
>
>
>
> "R. D. Davis" wrote:
> >
> > Quothe Chuck Dickman, from writings of Sun, Mar 31, 2002 at
> 08:12:16PM -0500:
> > > I enjoy soldering.... It is almost meditative.... but then it
> might just
> > > be the flux fumes.... :-)
> >
> > ...or the lead in the solder.  You've heard of the saying "mad as a
> > hatter"?  ...not that there's anything wrong with madness, a rather
> > good quality for a hacker to possess. :-)
>
> As I understand it, "the mad hatter" got that way from mercury, not
> lead.


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sun Mar 31 22:36:10 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question))
In-Reply-To: RE: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question)) (John Chris Wren)
References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>
	
Message-ID: <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
> also had problems.

  So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?

  I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
concerned.

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From vance at ikickass.org  Sun Mar 31 23:04:14 2002
From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> > It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
> > also had problems.
>
>   So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
> produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
> smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
>
>   I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
> concerned.

Hmm.  Hold on.  I will look up the boiling point and vapor pressure of
lead for you, but I would tend to think it would probably not be a
problem.

Peace...  Sridhar


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 31 23:14:47 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> > It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
> > also had problems.
>
>   So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
> produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
> smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
>
>   I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
> concerned.
>
>       -Dave

  Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately?

> --
> Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> St. Petersburg, FL             damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


	Doc


From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sun Mar 31 23:24:23 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: RE: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81   Question)) (Doc)
References: <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	
Message-ID: <15527.61191.827635.149886@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On March 31, Doc wrote:
>   Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately?
> 
> > --
> > Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> > St. Petersburg, FL             damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

  Yup...I know it's getting stale.  I'll provoke Sridhar again soon; I'm
sure he'll come up with another good quote. :)

      -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From tlindner at ix.netcom.com  Sun Mar 31 23:30:57 2002
From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Apple CHRP prototype machine...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <1f9xicr.svv74c11p7g1sM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com>

> I have one of these:
> 
> http://www.applefritter.com/macosppc/starmax/
> 
> if you're on the newsgroup and interested, make me an offer (trades may be
> acceptable also)
> 
> I figure if I keep it its just going to gather dust because I dont have
> time to play :)

Wow, a Mac with ISA slots!

I would _die_ to be able to get my Catweasel card working in a
Macintosh!

-- 
tim lindner                    tlindner@ix.netcom.com

"Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android

From fernande at internet1.net  Sun Mar 31 23:30:58 2002
From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question))
References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>	 <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net>

How much lead does solder dor electronics contain?  I thought only 
solder for pipes contained lead?

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

Dave McGuire wrote:
> On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> 
>>It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
>>also had problems.
> 
> 
>   So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
> produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
> smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
> 
>   I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
> concerned.
> 
>       -Dave
> 




From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 31 23:42:09 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>
Message-ID: 



On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote:

>
> "R. D. Davis" wrote:
> >
> > Quothe Chuck Dickman, from writings of Sun, Mar 31, 2002 at 08:12:16PM -0500:
> > > I enjoy soldering.... It is almost meditative.... but then it might just
> > > be the flux fumes.... :-)
> >
> > ...or the lead in the solder.  You've heard of the saying "mad as a
> > hatter"?  ...not that there's anything wrong with madness, a rather
> > good quality for a hacker to possess. :-)
>
> As I understand it, "the mad hatter" got that way from mercury, not
> lead.

Doesn't matter.  The principle is just the same.

						 - don



From mcguire at neurotica.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:19 2002
From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question))
In-Reply-To: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question)) (Chad Fernandez)
References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>
	
	<15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com>
	<3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <15527.62327.725265.883816@phaduka.neurotica.com>

On April 1, Chad Fernandez wrote:
> How much lead does solder dor electronics contain?  I thought only 
> solder for pipes contained lead?

  Nope.  Solder for electronics us usually around 60% lead.  You're
probably thinking of acid core vs. rosin core.

         -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL                 damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar


From donm at cts.com  Sun Mar 31 23:47:48 2002
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net>
Message-ID: 



On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:

> How much lead does solder dor electronics contain?  I thought only
> solder for pipes contained lead?

Now days, (water) pipe solder is the one that does not contain lead.

						 - don

> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
>
> Dave McGuire wrote:
> > On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> >
> >>It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.  Chronic hat wearers
> >>also had problems.
> >
> >
> >   So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
> > produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
> > smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
> >
> >   I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
> > concerned.
> >
> >       -Dave
> >
>
>
>
>


From marvin at rain.org  Sun Mar 31 23:48:56 2002
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  
 Question))
References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org>	 <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net>
Message-ID: <3CA7F4C8.FAC2EC66@rain.org>



Chad Fernandez wrote:
> 
> How much lead does solder dor electronics contain?  I thought only
> solder for pipes contained lead?

The newer solders for solding pipe are supposed to be lead free, but I
don't recall the metal(s) that are being substituted. Electronics solder
is typically 60/40 or preferable 63/37. The first number is the
percentage of tin and the second number is the percentage of lead. 63/37
is the preferrable solder to use because it is eutectic, basically no
temperature range between liquid and solid.

From acme_ent at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 31 23:52:14 2002
From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
Message-ID: <20020401055340.WZKB25581.imf14bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw>

> From: R. D. Davis 

> All that person needs to do is get a soldering iron, solder, some bits
> of wire, a scrap circuit board, something to tin the iron with

[snip]

Sure, and all a person needs to do to become a violinist is to buy a violin
. . .

> and start practicing.  

Practice doesn't always make perfect.  Some people can't learn how to play.

> Learning to solder properly is not difficult.  I was given a soldering
> iron and Radio Shack P-Box kits to build as a young child, when I was
> in elementary school.  Hence, soldering is the sort of thing that even
> a young child can learn to do

Sure it is.  I learned as a child, from my mother.

> so there's no excuse for any
> computer-collecting adult to not know how to do it.

Knowing how to do something and being able to do that thing are entirely
different.  If my eyesight is gone and/or my eye-hand coordination is gone
and/or I have tremors, all the knowledge in the world won't get the job
done.

Glen
0/0


From doc at mdrconsult.com  Sun Mar 31 23:55:00 2002
From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 
 Question))
In-Reply-To: <15527.61191.827635.149886@phaduka.neurotica.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:

> On March 31, Doc wrote:
> >   Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately?
> >
> > > --
> > > Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> > > St. Petersburg, FL             damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   Yup...I know it's getting stale.  I'll provoke Sridhar again soon; I'm
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  That "getting stale" part, in reference to that particular quote, is
simply further evidence of instability....

	Doc


From jcwren at jcwren.com  Sun Mar 31 23:56:32 2002
From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:09:55 2005
Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81  Question))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

	If you're truly concerned about lead uptake, I believe there is a test you
can have done.  I have no idea if it's a biopsy of an organ that's most
susceptible to lead uptake, or if they can do it with a blood sample.  You
might pull a MSDS for the solder you use the most, and see what they
mention.

	I solder maybe an hour a week, on average.  This thought has crossed my
mind, along with all the other dumb shit stuff I've exposed myself to.
Paints, fuels, glues, assorted chemicals, sand blasting for a week without
breathing protection (silicosis, microscopic particles of silicate that wind
up in the lungs), exhaust, Dog knows what else.

	I do know it's highly recommended to have good ventilation when soldering
(something I'm not the always the best about.  "Well, it's just tacking a
couple wires.  I don't need to get the fan out.")  And now, with these
so-called 'No Kleen' solders, who knows what fumes *they* put off.  We
pretty much knew what rosin, tin and lead would do.  Then you start adding
in liquid fluxes and stuff...  Who knows.

	--John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 0:15 AM
> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org
> Subject: RE: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81
> Question))
>
>
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> > On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> > > It's true.  The mercury was used to stiffen the brims.
> Chronic hat wearers
> > > also had problems.
> >
> >   So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
> > produced by soldering?  I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
> > smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
> >
> >   I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
> > concerned.
> >
> >       -Dave
>
>   Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately?
>
> > --
> > Dave McGuire                    "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
> > St. Petersburg, FL             damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
>
>
> 	Doc
>


From wmsmith at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  1 01:18:15 2002
From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:13:32 2005
Subject: JCL (was: Write only programming
References: 
Message-ID: <006801c1c0f1$414cfb60$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net>

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> 
> > > >:^)  Ah! You've never seen JCL have you?
> > > Argh.  GO SYSIN DD.......
> >
> > Believe it or not, I once seriously considered changing the spelling of my
> > name to SYSIN, so that at least the people in the industry would pronounce
> > it correctly.
> 
> How do people usually pronounce it?
> 
> Peace...  Sridhar
> 

I don't think SYSIN helps -- I immediately thought of SYSOP.