From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jun 1 05:52:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> (message from James Willing on Mon, 17 May 1999 22:52:33 -0700) References: <199905180405.XAA21285@trailingedge.com> <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <19990601105256.17703.qmail@brouhaha.com> James Willing wrote about Apple Profile had drives: > 5) There is no inherent 'format' command in the ProFile controller logic. > To enable formatting capability you have to install a special chip > (according to rumour: a Z-80 with a piggyback EPROM) into a vacant socket > on the ProFile logic board, power up the unit and issue a special command. A Zilog Z8 actually. Nothing like a Z-80; similar in concept (but not compatible with) the Intel 8051. As with most single-chip microcontrollers of that era, it was available in either masked-ROM, ROMless, or piggyback packages. Some Profile drives were shipped from the factor with piggyback packages, even though they were rather expensive, presumably because the masked-ROM parts weren't yet available. > There have been stories of people who have opened up their ProFiles and > found the previously mentioned socket occupied by the magic module, but > last time I looked in mine I was not one of the fortunate (?) ones... In the 5M drives I've got, the masked-ROM parts contain the same code as the EPROM on the piggy-back parts. If there was special firmware needed for low-level formatting, it's unlikely that it is present. However, I've been told that the standard firmware can do an LLF if it is given the correct command by the host. I've also heard that the drive has to be formatted differently for the Lisa than for the Apple ][ and ///, due to the 532-byte sector size on the Lisa vs. the 512-byte size on the ][ and ///. On the Lisa, the extra 20 bytes were used for tags to assist in scavenging corrupted file systems. This carried over to the Macintosh floppy disks, but was later abandoned. Anyhow, there was an Apple Tech Note that said something to the effect that if a customer wanted to take a Profile that had previously been used on a Lisa, and use it on an Apple ///, it had to be sent back to Level 1 Service to be reformatted. Someday I'll have to disassemble the Z8 code. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 06:31:47 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available Message-ID: <19990601113147.28825.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- PG Manney wrote: > > >At 02:27 AM 5/31/99 -0400, PG Manney wrote: > >>I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC > >>repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot > >>of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it. > > > >Obvious first question: Where is this barn? > > > Behind his house. Where else? (couldn't resist that!) > > In Northern Ohio, about halfway between Cleveland and Toledo. 44846 ZIP. > Tiny place called Milan. Woo Hoo! Close enough for a Road Trip! (Columbus is 2 hours south of Cleveland) I already put my requests in. The only outstanding question is how long ago did this guy start picking stuff up. I have an abundance of 1980's QBus stuff; I'm more interested in the odder stuff. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Jun 1 08:42:31 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: <3751DD58.79FB5F7F@gco.apana.org.au> from "Lance Lyon" at May 30, 99 08:52:41 pm Message-ID: <199906011342.GAA10914@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990601/85fa80e2/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 10:14:40 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > I am a little frustrated and sure that I am missing something rather > obvious. However, what must I do to assure that VMS (5.5) recognizes > my RX33 floppy drive, DUA2, on bootup without having to run SYSGEN and > Autoconfigure All each time. The machine tries to boot from it if it has > a disk installed and then switches to the RD54 DUA0 to go on to boot. Trying to boot devices in sequence is normal. Once VMS is running you can do a show dev that will show al disk devices that start with Dxxx. To read or write to the floppy you whill ahve to "mount" it. Read Help Mount. Allison From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jun 1 10:19:32 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000/20 needs software Message-ID: Title pretty much says it all. Over the long weekend (where did it go?) I finally got time to check out and power up the HP 9000/20 (aka: 9000/520) that recently joined the collection. It woke up without incident (tho there is still something rattling around in the monitor that I have not been able to find yet), but now needs something to run. You can only look at the "Looking for System" prompt for so long... So... (since I know there are at least one or two of these things in this group) What runs on this critter? And can someone provide copies of some disks? Diagnostics perhaps? Or dare I think it... Docs??? B^} I already suspect that I'm going to have to find a hard drive to go along with the unit to make it really happy, yes? Obvious by now that I've never worked with this particular unit before? Thanks! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Jun 1 11:02:21 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <80256783.00587C9A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Bluoval wrote: > I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion. > A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure > map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who owns the gold? ME. Hang on. Says who? Taking the case of real estate - where the laws tend to be different from other cases - if you buy some property, you own everything on the property that was legitimately there (not stolen goods, for example) on the date that ownership is transferred. So if the gold is on your property, it's yours, whether or not there's a map. If the gold is not on the real estate you bought, ownership hasn't passed with the property, even if you did find the treasure map. I know that the analogy doesn't really stretch that far, but just because you have the data (map) doesn't mean you have a right to publish or otherwise make use of it (dig up gold). > Tony Duell wrote: > >> There's the first difference. In most cases you're _not_ buying a computer >> and all the data on the hard drive. > > If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine also. > The seller is/was responsable for the data on there, not the buyer. the seller > should've deleted what he thought was sensitive information. Unless the data is > copyrighted, I have every right to do as i please with it, which would most likely be > erasure. This way lies major legal tangles. Copyright law in the US tends to be different from the rest of the world, but over here AFAIK if you put your name and the date on it, it is your copyright unless someone can prove that they had their name and a genuine earlier date on it. So any data you find, which will presumably have been date stamped by the filing system, and may be user stamped as well (or identified as the user's in some other way) is arguably automatically copyrighted. As far as publication is concerned, if you publish sensitive information about a person, there may be an action for defamation or some similar offence even if it is true. If it ain't true, there is an action for libel. Did you check truth before you published?.... > I wasn't talking about morals. I'd probably find the previous owner and give it to > them, if they wanted it. otherwise I'd trash it. I have no use for old letters and > bank statements.... So you weren't talking about morals. Maybe you should have been thinking about them, though. If someone makes a mistake and you discover it, what should you (morally) do? Exploit it for financial gain? Or help them put it right? > There have been many books published from people's personal data... diaries, love > letters, ect.. especially items found on/around important dates and events. > Letters/ pictures/diaries from the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW, WWII, ect... > sketches and drawings for some wacky invention..... all of these things were , at > one time by someone, considered personal data. many times we learn from them. Do > you think these people would have wanted their data published by some person who just > happened to find it in an attic, in a house he just bought? probably not, but > historically they're priceless. There have indeed. Generally after copyright has expired, which in most countries now happens 50 or 70 years after the death of the writer. In the case of war diaries and the like, these are usually published with the permission, if not the active co-operation, of the author. This is a useful guide for when personal data ceases to be sensitive - 50 to 70 years after the death of the person concerned. For me, the bottom line is more like: If you find sensitive data on a hard disk, there _may_ be legal loopholes that allow you to use it. But they are fewer than you might think. And (a) should you morally do so? And (b) do you want to bring classic computer collectors into disrepute by doing so? Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Jun 1 11:04:47 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <80256783.0058B59D.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > I think I have mentioned this before, but at work I have been told that I > cannot have a disused tape _drive_ decause it has been used to back up > payroll data. I realise that this is just the over exagerrated paranoia of Ouch! I wasn't refused the tape drive on these grounds, but I was refused the tapes. In vain did I try and point out that this drive was never used for recording computer data - it was a very nice analogue machine used for recording machine vibrations etc. for later analysis back at the lab... Philip. From ss at allegro.com Tue Jun 1 12:34:20 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Info needed: HP1000F/2117F In-Reply-To: <006c01bea936$abb8dda0$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <199906011734.KAA22202@bart.allegro.com> Jay writes: > Your machines are F series, the very last of the 1000 line I believe. The > 2116 is one of the first. You've got both ends of the spectrum there ;) I thought the A series followed, ending in the A990 ... which is called a "1000" in HP's docs. (The A series are single board computers, with the A990 listed as "3 MIPS") I'm still in the process of sorting through dozens of boxes of HP manuals, but I've noticed at least two boxes of HP 1000 manuals of various kinds (including some maint/diag manuals). I'll post more later, when I've figured out more. Stan From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 1 13:45:19 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > Trying to boot devices in sequence is normal. Once VMS is running > you can do a show dev that will show al disk devices that start with > Dxxx. > > To read or write to the floppy you whill ahve to "mount" it. Read Help > Mount. The fact that the floppy (DUA2) did not show up in 'show dev' is what my little monologue was all about, Allison. You likely saw my other two messages after sending this response, where I found that it was the MIN startup that caused the problem. Without the MIN, all was as I had expected. - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 1 15:39:22 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: HP 9000/20 needs software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990601153922.3b575158@intellistar.net> Jim, I don't know anything about the 520 but I have plenty of HP-IB floppy and hard drives. And printers. Let me know what you're looking for. I also have a number of HP languages/ OSs for the 9000 200 and 300 series stuff but I don't know if they'll work on the 520 either. Joe At 08:19 AM 6/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >Title pretty much says it all. > >Over the long weekend (where did it go?) I finally got time to check out >and power up the HP 9000/20 (aka: 9000/520) that recently joined the >collection. > >It woke up without incident (tho there is still something rattling around >in the monitor that I have not been able to find yet), but now needs >something to run. You can only look at the "Looking for System" prompt >for so long... > >So... (since I know there are at least one or two of these things in this >group) What runs on this critter? And can someone provide copies of some >disks? Diagnostics perhaps? Or dare I think it... Docs??? B^} > >I already suspect that I'm going to have to find a hard drive to go along >with the unit to make it really happy, yes? > >Obvious by now that I've never worked with this particular unit before? > >Thanks! >-jim >--- >jimw@computergarage.org >The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > >>>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives > >>>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 14:58:55 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The fact that the floppy (DUA2) did not show up in 'show dev' is what my > little monologue was all about, Allison. You likely saw my other two > messages after sending this response, where I found that it was the MIN > startup that caused the problem. Without the MIN, all was as I had > expected. A really slow link here makes for lousy readying of multiple messages. Yes, booting and running in "min" mode negates a lot of devices as it's a minimal mode, obviously. You can add devices from Configure interactively as well. VMS can do a lot of things that are impossble under winnt/win9x without reboot but you may not find out how easily. Sysmanagement course at DEC was over a week of class... there is a reason for that. ;) Allison From clintw at colorado.cirrus.com Tue Jun 1 15:13:12 1999 From: clintw at colorado.cirrus.com (Clint Wolff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: MicroVax 2000 external hard drive question References: Message-ID: <37543ED8.7091@colorado.cirrus.com> Hi all, I recently acquired a uVAX 2000, external hard drive box, and external TK50 box. Is there anything special about the cable between the two? Does anyone have a spare they would be willing to part with? The uVAX 2000 has a single RD54 in it (semi-dead). Is there anything that has to be done to disable the internal RD54 and run with the external RD54 only? Thanks, clint clintw@colorado.cirrus.com (in case you don't want to spam the list with VAX answers :) From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 1 15:17:27 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > A really slow link here makes for lousy readying of multiple messages. Well, I really should have done my homework better and I'd have needed fewer or none. > without reboot but you may not find out how easily. Sysmanagement course > at DEC was over a week of class... there is a reason for that. ;) I can believe it. By the way, while doing all of the rebooting to determine that it was the MIN boot that was causing my problem, I tested the thing and found that it seems Y2K compliant. At least as far as rolling over from 31 Dec 1999 to 1 Jan 2000. That little bit of experiment also required me to change my password - again. Is there any way to kill the calendar expiration of passwords? For my usage, I'd be happy if it didn't even look for one! - don From elvey at hal.com Tue Jun 1 15:33:12 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199906012033.NAA29156@civic.hal.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 28 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > Dwight, > > > My next question is, could someone send me an image of a > > directory that I could use to build my disk? > --snip-- > Here is an image of a 2.2 directory from an 8"SSSD disk. Hope it proves > useful. (It is not Imsai.) Hi Don Thanks a lot. As it was, I didn't need to do anything to start the directory. If it had the original E5's in it, CPM thinks it is an empty disk. Clever of DR, wasn't it! I'm learning more about CPM than most people know anyway. I was able to get a the system to the "A>" late Monday night. I then transfered some files by my simple serial downloader into the memory and used the SAVE command to write them to files. I did this for the DUMP, ED, STAT and ASM commands. DUMP and STAT seem to work OK but I'm having troubles with ED and haven't tried ASM yet. The ED command has some serious troubles. It allows me to do "I" and "T" commands but won't do a "L" or "E" commands correctly. Saving text to a file is one of the most useful parts of an editor but being able to move around is number 2 or 3. Since DUMP works, I'll use that to read back what the file has in it. If not that, I'll make an image file for CCP, BDOS and CBIOS. I'll then be able to tell where the problem lies. I've had some issues with RAM loosing data but I not sure where the problem is yet. This may be my problem. The RAM boards I have are some older 4K, 8K and one 16K static RAM boards that make up the needed 64K ( actually 62K ) by the CPM.SYS file I have. I have some DRAM boards that I've used with my Poly88. These are 64K boards and I thought I'd use them but the disk's DMA doesn't seem to write to them. I'm able to read and write from the front toggles, just not from the DMA to the RAM. Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the system, at least until I get things fully functional. In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader, CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far. My longest to trouble shot problem was the difference between JNC and JC used with SUB. Dwight From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Jun 1 15:39:05 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question Message-ID: <990601163905.21e0023e@trailing-edge.com> >That little bit of experiment also required me to change my >password - again. Is there any way to kill the calendar expiration of >passwords? For my usage, I'd be happy if it didn't even look for one! $ mcr authorize UAF> help modify /expiration MODIFY /EXPIRATION /EXPIRATION=time (default) /NOEXPIRATION Specifies the expiration date and time of the account. The /NOEXPIRATION qualifier removes the expiration date on the account or resets the expiration time for expired accounts. The default expiration time period is 90 days for nonprivileged users. Does this help? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 15:42:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: MicroVax 2000 external hard drive question In-Reply-To: <37543ED8.7091@colorado.cirrus.com> Message-ID: > > Is there anything special about the cable between the two? > Does anyone have a spare they would be willing to part with? > The uVAX 2000 has a single RD54 in it (semi-dead). Is there > anything that has to be done to disable the internal RD54 > and run with the external RD54 only? The easiest way is to swap the external for the internal drive. If the internal RD54 is semidead, what is that? Does that mean the drive is elctronically dead or the formatting has been munged, OS trashed? If the formatting or OS is the problem those can be fixed as the VS2000 can format the RD54. If the OS is bad (VMS, Ultrix, NetBSD) then it's possible to put up either netbsd or VMS again. VMS is available to the hobbiest via DECUS.org and Montagar.com. Allison From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Jun 1 15:43:05 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <990601164305.21e0023e@trailing-edge.com> > I have some DRAM boards that I've used with my Poly88. >These are 64K boards and I thought I'd use them but the disk's >DMA doesn't seem to write to them. I'm able to read and write >from the front toggles, just not from the DMA to the RAM. > > Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some >timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this >to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use >this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the >system, at least until I get things fully functional. Welcome to the world of S-100, where DRAM boards often didn't support DMA controllers properly. In some cases, you can rejumper them so that the DMA vs refresh timing conflict isn't such a problem. But many of us just went to pure static RAM systems where DMA was being done. What disk controller are you using, BTW? In some cases the problem isn't so much the memory, but it's the disk controller. > In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is >a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader, >CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far. It certainly is a major milestone. Congratulations! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 15:54:42 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199906012033.NAA29156@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: > I've had some issues with RAM loosing data but I not sure > where the problem is yet. This may be my problem. The > RAM boards I have are some older 4K, 8K and one 16K > static RAM boards that make up the needed 64K ( actually > 62K ) by the CPM.SYS file I have. If static ram is loosing data you likely have a bus noise or other timing problem. If your running a 4mhz z80 try running with 1 waitstate on memory accesses, some of those old boards didn't do 4MHz. If your running an 8080 many of the dram card didn't work well with oder 8080 designs. Some like the Vector 48k, will not run at all as they require ta z80 for correct refresh.. > Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some > timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this > to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use > this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the > system, at least until I get things fully functional. For those old systems DRAM was the lest reliable generally and most statics tended to work ok. DMA... you sure that card is a DMA, very few were. Most of the older systems were totally incompatable to barely compatable with DMA devices and bus termination for those is a must have. > In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is > a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader, > CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far. yes it is. You have some basic hardware reliability issues to deal with yet and likely bus noise is one of them. The IMSAI was far better than the Altair but like most of the older s100 crates terminating the bus was not a bad thing and sometimes required for reliable operation. Allison From elvey at hal.com Tue Jun 1 15:58:46 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <990601164305.21e0023e@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199906012058.NAA29165@civic.hal.com> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > --snip-- > Welcome to the world of S-100, where DRAM boards often didn't > support DMA controllers properly. In some cases, you can rejumper > them so that the DMA vs refresh timing conflict isn't such a problem. > But many of us just went to pure static RAM systems where DMA > was being done. > > What disk controller are you using, BTW? In some cases the problem > isn't so much the memory, but it's the disk controller. > Hi It is an old descrete TTL controller by Digital Sytems. It has a seperate bus interface card labled "HB-1". The controller in the disk drive box is a "FDC-1". I have schematics for both, so I may be able to do something. I may just have to continue with the statics but these boards are quite old and I've already had to replace one 74LS32 on one of the boards. Maybe I should write a more intense RAM test and run them through their paces. I don't think I'd want to wait for GALPAT but a simple March C seems to be in order. Dwight From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 1 15:53:34 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <001801beac70$d0cd9080$0100c0a8@fuj03> Do you know what the nature of the problem is? Does the DMA simply fail to write to the DRAMM because it doesn't write to RAM at all, or is it a DRAM timing failure? Have you examined the nRAS nWE and nCAS signals to the DRAM with your 'scope? Where does this DMA live? Is this an i8257 on the controller? If you can take a look at a repetitive read waveform set on the DRAM chips themselves, you'll easily see whether the timing is correct. The critical things are the relationships between nCAS and valid data and nCAS and nWE. nWE must end before nCAS. If the DMA will work on the SRAMs and not the DRAMs, it's probably a bus timing issue. Perhaps you have to slow down. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 2:34 PM Subject: Re[2]: More Bringing up a CPM >Don Maslin wrote: >> On Fri, 28 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: >> >> Dwight, >> >> > My next question is, could someone send me an image of a >> > directory that I could use to build my disk? >> --snip-- > >> Here is an image of a 2.2 directory from an 8"SSSD disk. Hope it proves >> useful. (It is not Imsai.) > >Hi Don > Thanks a lot. As it was, I didn't need to do anything to start >the directory. If it had the original E5's in it, CPM thinks >it is an empty disk. Clever of DR, wasn't it! I'm learning >more about CPM than most people know anyway. > I was able to get a the system to the "A>" late Monday >night. I then transfered some files by my simple serial >downloader into the memory and used the SAVE command >to write them to files. I did this for the DUMP, ED, >STAT and ASM commands. DUMP and STAT seem to work >OK but I'm having troubles with ED and haven't tried >ASM yet. > The ED command has some serious troubles. It allows me to >do "I" and "T" commands but won't do a "L" or "E" commands correctly. >Saving text to a file is one of the most useful parts of >an editor but being able to move around is number 2 or 3. >Since DUMP works, I'll use that to read back what the file >has in it. If not that, I'll make an image file for CCP, BDOS >and CBIOS. I'll then be able to tell where the problem >lies. > I've had some issues with RAM loosing data but I not sure >where the problem is yet. This may be my problem. The >RAM boards I have are some older 4K, 8K and one 16K >static RAM boards that make up the needed 64K ( actually >62K ) by the CPM.SYS file I have. > I have some DRAM boards that I've used with my Poly88. >These are 64K boards and I thought I'd use them but the disk's >DMA doesn't seem to write to them. I'm able to read and write >from the front toggles, just not from the DMA to the RAM. > > Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some >timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this >to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use >this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the >system, at least until I get things fully functional. > > In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is >a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader, >CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far. >My longest to trouble shot problem was the difference >between JNC and JC used with SUB. >Dwight > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 15:59:43 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > By the way, while doing all of the rebooting to determine that it was the > MIN boot that was causing my problem, I tested the thing and found that it Generally booting with sysstartup_p1 set to "min" is strictly for starup of a new system or cracking a password as it turns off a lot of stuff. > seems Y2K compliant. At least as far as rolling over from 31 Dec 1999 to > 1 Jan 2000. That little bit of experiment also required me to change my > password - again. Is there any way to kill the calendar expiration of > passwords? For my usage, I'd be happy if it didn't even look for one! While in Authorize do a HELP. There is a setting that will allow for passwords that do not expire I think /passwd=Noexpire or some such, check though as it's not something I do often. ;) Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 1 13:17:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <199906010429.AAA12220@platy.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Jun 1, 99 00:29:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 557 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990601/70e3416d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 1 13:23:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <19990601105256.17703.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 1, 99 10:52:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1359 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990601/727c3d3f/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Tue Jun 1 16:11:34 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199906012111.OAA29171@civic.hal.com> allisonp@world.std.com wrote: --snip-- > If your running > an 8080 many of the dram card didn't work well with oder 8080 designs. > Some like the Vector 48k, will not run at all as they require ta z80 for > correct refresh.. These are DRAM boards of two types that I've had working with my Poly88 that is a 8080 system ( some mods on the CPU card to get refresh to work ). The IMSAI has the original 8080 processor board. They seem to hold data fine so it looks like the refresh isn't the issue. Since the data isn't modified at all by the DMA, I'd think it was a missing WR strobe or not getting the address there at the right time. --snip-- > For those old systems DRAM was the lest reliable generally and most > statics tended to work ok. DMA... you sure that card is a DMA, very few > were. Most of the older systems were totally incompatable to barely > compatable with DMA devices and bus termination for those is a must have. I tend to agree here but in this case, I have 4 ea 8K, 4 ea 4K and one 16K static cards. I can replace this with one 64K card if I get the DMA write and read to work correctly. As I said, these cards are old and I've already had failures with less than 20 hours of trying to bring it back up. --snip-- > You have some basic hardware reliability issues to deal with > yet and likely bus noise is one of them. The IMSAI was far better than > the Altair but like most of the older s100 crates terminating the bus was > not a bad thing and sometimes required for reliable operation. It has a terminator card in it. Since this also has voltage regulators on it, it might even be a source of problems as well. I'll loke at it as well. Dwight From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 1 16:06:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <000401beac72$a8c22ea0$0100c0a8@fuj03> I've determined that I'm missing the doc's supporting my SMS/OMTI Series-10 SCSI/SASI (probably SASI) 8" hard disk bridge adapter. Anything detailed would be very helpful, I think. For years the manual was sandwiched between the drive's logic board and the Series-10 controller, but now that I need it, it's missing . . . Oh, well . . . Dick From a2k at one.net Tue Jun 1 16:36:41 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Sparc date problems & 3/60 HW needed Message-ID: Hello, I have a Sun SparcII (RHL 4.2) that has a date problem-- no, he has plenty of girls, ;) but the time and date keep getting reset on every boot.. there have also been problems with getting it to boot (kernel shits itself) and takes 15 or so tries before it boots correctly.. then sometimes crashes at that point. Any ideas? Also, I have a Sun 3/60 that I would like to put SunOS or BSD on to use as my mail server or just to have running.. I need a keyboard, monitor, tape, external hard disk, and probably media unless I can write to the tapes from my SparcII. Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jun 1 17:49:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: What is a XEROX 3700? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990601174947.23473df2@intellistar.net> I spotted several of them this morning. What are they? They have a separate keyboard and the CRT on the left side of the unit and a 5 1/4" HH floppy disk drive mounted vertically on the RH side. They're about 18" deep and 13" tall and 14" wide. The front of the unit hangs out over the front feet the same way that a Apple Lisa does. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 1 17:26:43 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: another problem Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <001c01beac7d$d41b4900$0100c0a8@fuj03> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: More Bringing up a CPM >I've determined that I'm missing the doc's supporting my SMS/OMTI Series-10 >SCSI/SASI (probably SASI) 8" hard disk bridge adapter. Anything detailed >would be very helpful, I think. > >For years the manual was sandwiched between the drive's logic board and the >Series-10 controller, but now that I need it, it's missing . . . > >Oh, well . . . > >Dick > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jun 1 17:51:04 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: Sparc date problems & 3/60 HW needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990601154910.03d017d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 05:36 PM 6/1/99 -0400, LordTyran wrote: >...the time and date keep getting reset on every >boot.. You're Sun 3/60 no longer has a viable battery backed RAM. There is a Dallas NVRAM part (it has a big bar code on it) that contains, among other things, the "Host ID" for your machine which identifies its architecture to the kernel. See the Sun NV-RAM.FAQ for details on how to fix this. Last I checked Mouser Electronics still sold the part needed. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 1 17:39:37 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <002501beac7f$a1956860$0100c0a8@fuj03> Is there a monitor that can be run to do things like run a software loop to write to, and subsequently, read from a block of SRAM? Does that work? If you're having doubts about the memory, it might be a good idea to leave the DMA out of things for a while, at least until your confidence in your memories, of whichever type you decide to use, gets to where you have some. I have seen no evidence of any confidence testing in your RAMs, whatever they are, and until you have at least 4K in which you have confidence, you really can't do much, can you? If you do have confidence in the processor being able to read/write the DRAMs, then why not look at the access waveform timing on pins 3,4,and 15. IIRC, those are nRAS, nWE, and nCAS, and they're the ones which have to work correctly. If the processor works these devices correctly and the DMA controller doesn't, the relative timing of these strobes will be the reason. The DMAC itself may not, in fact, be causing your timing problem, in the event that's the finding, but the bus interface logic may be incompatible. I've seen some memory cards which decode sMEMWR and pDBOUT but don't use pWR, which occurs once the data is valid. If that's not the case, you may have to get out your XACTO knife, to make sure the memory isn't WRITTEN with data that's not valid. It's also possible, as old as those boards are, that they may have been designed in a way which causes incorrect bus acquisition by the DMAC. The DMAC may, therefore, be fighting with some other player on the bus. DRAM boards on a multi-card system are always difficult to debug if there isn't a program running in them because there's no really frequent cycle to use as a trigger for your 'scope. If your system can allow you to load and run a little monitor program in the DRAM board, you'll have plenty of cycles you can trigger on. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: RE: Re[2]: More Bringing up a CPM >> I have some DRAM boards that I've used with my Poly88. >>These are 64K boards and I thought I'd use them but the disk's >>DMA doesn't seem to write to them. I'm able to read and write >>from the front toggles, just not from the DMA to the RAM. >> >> Does anyone know what the problem is here? Is there some >>timing or pin out issue with DRAMs that would cause this >>to happen in a standard IMSAI 8080? I'd really like to use >>this DRAM because I trust it more than the statics in the >>system, at least until I get things fully functional. > >Welcome to the world of S-100, where DRAM boards often didn't >support DMA controllers properly. In some cases, you can rejumper >them so that the DMA vs refresh timing conflict isn't such a problem. >But many of us just went to pure static RAM systems where DMA >was being done. > >What disk controller are you using, BTW? In some cases the problem >isn't so much the memory, but it's the disk controller. > >> In any case, I think just getting to the A> prompt is >>a major mile stone. I had to completely write a boot loader, >>CBIOS, disk formatter and serial data transfer to get this far. > >It certainly is a major milestone. Congratulations! > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Jun 1 18:19:14 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:24 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <199906012319.AA29130@world.std.com>